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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:19,275 --> 00:00:20,205 -That's the one. 2 00:00:21,655 --> 00:00:23,585 She's strong enough to have done it. 3 00:00:26,103 --> 00:00:29,723 Gossip. Murderer. 4 00:00:31,206 --> 00:00:32,236 Child murderer. 5 00:00:34,862 --> 00:00:36,172 I became the devil. 6 00:00:38,896 --> 00:00:40,756 Things that I'd been very proud of 7 00:00:42,965 --> 00:00:44,785 were now being used against me. 8 00:00:47,862 --> 00:00:49,662 They made me ashamed of everything. 9 00:00:53,862 --> 00:00:56,032 What proof do they have? 10 00:00:57,206 --> 00:00:58,066 They don't. 11 00:01:02,103 --> 00:01:03,413 They don't know the truth. 12 00:01:08,068 --> 00:01:10,308 This was, and still is, 13 00:01:10,310 --> 00:01:13,170 the biggest murder inquiry ever seen in South Wales. 14 00:01:13,172 --> 00:01:15,447 After months of often frustrating work, 15 00:01:15,448 --> 00:01:17,928 police have now arrested a 38-year-old man 16 00:01:17,931 --> 00:01:19,551 on suspicion of murder. 17 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:48,100 For four days, and then release the bastard! 18 00:02:06,206 --> 00:02:07,546 -Superintendent, 19 00:02:07,551 --> 00:02:10,516 you've been on this investigation now for two weeks. 20 00:02:10,517 --> 00:02:12,585 What progress have you made? 21 00:02:12,586 --> 00:02:14,996 -Substantial progress, I think, in the last two weeks. 22 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:16,520 It's just a question of really building 23 00:02:16,521 --> 00:02:17,997 everything that we've got 24 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:19,723 and trying to put the pieces of the jigsaw together. 25 00:02:19,724 --> 00:02:21,622 But every day, new bits of information come in 26 00:02:21,623 --> 00:02:24,340 and we prioritize them and act on them accordingly. 27 00:02:31,448 --> 00:02:35,338 My wife was just a few years younger than Mandy. 28 00:02:40,310 --> 00:02:42,790 My mother, who was still alive at that stage, 29 00:02:42,793 --> 00:02:44,283 was the same age as Doris. 30 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:49,270 And two of my four children 31 00:02:49,275 --> 00:02:51,095 were the same age of Katie and Emily. 32 00:02:55,241 --> 00:02:57,791 And I couldn't believe that some other human being 33 00:02:58,724 --> 00:03:00,214 was capable of doing this. 34 00:03:13,965 --> 00:03:16,965 We knew that Mandy was having a lesbian relationship 35 00:03:19,172 --> 00:03:20,312 with Alison Lewis. 36 00:03:23,827 --> 00:03:25,207 A former police officer. 37 00:03:26,448 --> 00:03:27,828 People point the finger. 38 00:03:30,931 --> 00:03:32,661 I'd rather follow the evidence. 39 00:03:36,517 --> 00:03:40,267 So the investigation started by trying to find out 40 00:03:40,275 --> 00:03:42,335 who'd come to that house on that evening. 41 00:03:44,517 --> 00:03:46,687 How much pressure are you under here 42 00:03:46,689 --> 00:03:48,999 to make an arrest quickly? 43 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:50,274 -I think the community would like to see 44 00:03:50,275 --> 00:03:51,405 an arrest made quickly, 45 00:03:51,413 --> 00:03:54,343 but it's not a question of quickness. 46 00:03:54,344 --> 00:03:56,624 It's a question of a methodical investigation. 47 00:04:11,965 --> 00:04:13,995 Three and a half months before, 48 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:15,520 somebody tried the back door. 49 00:04:17,965 --> 00:04:20,135 So three and a half months before the murders, 50 00:04:20,137 --> 00:04:21,957 you heard somebody trying the back door? 51 00:04:21,965 --> 00:04:23,205 Yeah. 52 00:04:28,137 --> 00:04:30,927 -Can I take a sip of that first? 53 00:04:35,862 --> 00:04:38,242 Mandy sometimes felt like she was being watched. 54 00:04:39,586 --> 00:04:42,096 She seemed to be a bit frightened of something. 55 00:04:45,620 --> 00:04:47,720 You could tell something was niggling her. 56 00:04:52,034 --> 00:04:54,136 I was sleeping over at Mandy's, I was, 57 00:04:54,137 --> 00:04:56,237 and Mandy came back from a night out. 58 00:04:58,482 --> 00:05:01,002 She'd gone out with Alison Lewis. 59 00:05:03,931 --> 00:05:05,381 Could see Mandy looking up the window 60 00:05:05,382 --> 00:05:06,759 in between the curtains, 61 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:08,408 just having a peep. 62 00:05:08,413 --> 00:05:10,663 And she said, "There's someone out the back." 63 00:05:16,862 --> 00:05:19,002 -He was standing the top of the garden 64 00:05:20,137 --> 00:05:23,067 and she asked me what he was doing. 65 00:05:23,068 --> 00:05:25,648 I said, "Well, he's just standing there." 66 00:05:25,655 --> 00:05:28,065 He was literally just standing by the back fence 67 00:05:29,448 --> 00:05:30,548 watching her house. 68 00:05:31,724 --> 00:05:33,174 How would you describe him? 69 00:05:33,175 --> 00:05:36,619 -Tall, black bomber jacket 70 00:05:36,620 --> 00:05:37,895 with a shiny fabric 71 00:05:37,896 --> 00:05:40,136 'cause you can see the light reflecting. 72 00:05:41,827 --> 00:05:43,237 Could you see the person's face? 73 00:05:43,241 --> 00:05:44,071 -No. 74 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:02,310 -I think Martyn was quite right to come to us. 75 00:06:04,931 --> 00:06:07,831 I mean, "Crimewatch" was the most visible platform. 76 00:06:09,172 --> 00:06:12,792 And at times we were getting phenomenal audiences, 77 00:06:12,793 --> 00:06:13,999 10, 12, 15, 78 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:16,620 I think one got well over 16 million. 79 00:06:23,344 --> 00:06:24,826 Good evening. 80 00:06:24,827 --> 00:06:26,587 Detective superintendent Martyn Lloyd Evans 81 00:06:26,588 --> 00:06:27,826 says he and his colleagues 82 00:06:27,827 --> 00:06:29,167 have never seen anything like it. 83 00:06:29,172 --> 00:06:31,757 And tonight, he's turning to us for help, 84 00:06:31,758 --> 00:06:34,205 or rather, he's turning to you. 85 00:06:34,206 --> 00:06:35,826 So you think this might be somebody 86 00:06:35,827 --> 00:06:37,787 who had expressed a dislike of Mandy in the past? 87 00:06:37,793 --> 00:06:38,763 Certainly a possibility, I suppose. 88 00:06:38,764 --> 00:06:40,209 -Always a possibility, yes. 89 00:06:40,210 --> 00:06:41,406 -And maybe- 90 00:06:41,413 --> 00:06:42,863 If you put yourself in the position 91 00:06:42,864 --> 00:06:45,722 of a senior investigating officer on something like this, 92 00:06:45,724 --> 00:06:48,309 you passionately want to solve this 93 00:06:48,310 --> 00:06:49,900 on a purely emotional level. 94 00:06:51,068 --> 00:06:53,585 You wanna solve it on a professional level. 95 00:06:53,586 --> 00:06:55,896 It's a feather in your cap if you do solve it. 96 00:06:57,448 --> 00:06:59,408 You've got all your team. 97 00:06:59,413 --> 00:07:00,653 The team are loyal to you. 98 00:07:00,655 --> 00:07:01,895 You are loyal to the team. 99 00:07:01,896 --> 00:07:03,276 You want to solve it for the team. 100 00:07:04,689 --> 00:07:07,649 Mandy and the children got home late that night. 101 00:07:07,655 --> 00:07:09,515 Mandy had been babysitting for her cousin. 102 00:07:10,827 --> 00:07:12,997 -Somebody must suspect something. 103 00:07:14,896 --> 00:07:16,306 I'd ask people, 104 00:07:16,310 --> 00:07:18,650 did their partner come home this particular night? 105 00:07:18,655 --> 00:07:21,205 Did they come home late, perhaps bloodstained? 106 00:07:21,206 --> 00:07:22,956 Did they come home perhaps in different clothing? 107 00:07:22,965 --> 00:07:25,995 Did they spend maybe extra time in the bathroom this night? 108 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:27,270 Don't keep it to yourself. 109 00:07:27,275 --> 00:07:28,309 You can't have this on your conscience. 110 00:07:28,310 --> 00:07:29,760 Come forward and help us. 111 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:34,480 -We also need to pin down sightings 112 00:07:34,482 --> 00:07:36,102 and either turn those into evidence 113 00:07:36,103 --> 00:07:38,213 or firmly eliminate them from the inquiry. 114 00:07:39,724 --> 00:07:41,794 -There was a real chance, a huge chance 115 00:07:41,795 --> 00:07:43,516 that you could get to somebody 116 00:07:43,517 --> 00:07:46,205 who hadn't realized that they could hold a clue 117 00:07:46,206 --> 00:07:47,716 which could resolve the crime. 118 00:08:00,793 --> 00:08:02,999 -I was on my way home from Cardiff. 119 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:06,030 It was about 2:30 and I was coming up to the junction 120 00:08:06,034 --> 00:08:07,382 and where that white van is, 121 00:08:07,383 --> 00:08:08,619 I saw a young couple. 122 00:08:08,620 --> 00:08:10,410 They seemed to be having disagreement. 123 00:08:11,931 --> 00:08:13,826 I heard some raised voices 124 00:08:13,827 --> 00:08:16,827 and just carried on going up the hill. 125 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:19,520 And as I was driving up the hill, 126 00:08:19,521 --> 00:08:23,787 I saw there was a man walking quite briskly. 127 00:08:23,793 --> 00:08:26,343 And I saw him just here under the lamp post. 128 00:08:28,206 --> 00:08:33,206 He was quite tall, quite stocky, dark cropped hair. 129 00:08:34,344 --> 00:08:37,524 He was wearing dark jeans, trousers, 130 00:08:38,724 --> 00:08:43,384 and seemed to me like a shiny bomber jacket. 131 00:08:44,586 --> 00:08:45,826 And he was carrying a bundle under his arm, 132 00:08:45,827 --> 00:08:48,277 quite a large parcel of some sort, or kit bag. 133 00:08:51,310 --> 00:08:55,450 -Nicola Williams is a respectable, well-educated lady. 134 00:08:57,620 --> 00:08:59,410 And we need to identify that person. 135 00:09:07,931 --> 00:09:09,791 -Good morning. -Morning. 136 00:09:15,310 --> 00:09:17,309 -It's received tremendous press coverage, 137 00:09:17,310 --> 00:09:19,140 both locally and nationally. 138 00:09:20,103 --> 00:09:21,585 I say, if it is you, 139 00:09:21,586 --> 00:09:24,826 if you are the person walking to the scene at 2:35-ish, 140 00:09:24,827 --> 00:09:29,516 carrying this baggage or whatever it was, 141 00:09:29,517 --> 00:09:31,516 this something under the arm, 142 00:09:31,517 --> 00:09:32,517 please come forward. 143 00:09:37,655 --> 00:09:40,375 Nicola Williams was driving up Gellionen Road, 144 00:09:40,379 --> 00:09:42,309 where she's passed an individual 145 00:09:42,310 --> 00:09:44,520 who she subsequently prepared an E-fit from. 146 00:09:45,931 --> 00:09:47,930 Were you ever show the E-fit 147 00:09:47,931 --> 00:09:49,451 from Nicola Williams' sighting? 148 00:09:54,137 --> 00:09:58,787 -Not by the police, but I was shown by someone else. 149 00:10:01,379 --> 00:10:02,209 And then 150 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:06,930 the police officer that was obviously 151 00:10:06,931 --> 00:10:08,721 trying to talk to me at the time, 152 00:10:08,724 --> 00:10:09,964 I told him who it was 153 00:10:09,965 --> 00:10:12,685 and he didn't like my answer, so... 154 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:19,516 And who did you say it looked like? 155 00:10:19,517 --> 00:10:22,307 Stephen Lewis, the police officer. 156 00:10:24,724 --> 00:10:25,794 Alison's husband. 157 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:33,240 You're not gonna forget a face like that, are you? 158 00:10:54,379 --> 00:10:57,479 -Questions were being asked by officers 159 00:10:57,482 --> 00:10:59,481 involved in the inquiry, 160 00:10:59,482 --> 00:11:00,652 but I would've expected that 161 00:11:00,655 --> 00:11:05,585 because of the magnitude of the inquiry 162 00:11:06,793 --> 00:11:09,723 plus the circumstance in which I'd found myself. 163 00:11:13,655 --> 00:11:14,855 And of course, me finding out 164 00:11:14,862 --> 00:11:18,242 about the hidden aspect of the 165 00:11:19,655 --> 00:11:21,685 relationship between Alison and Mandy. 166 00:11:23,413 --> 00:11:26,999 It was just too much to take in, really. 167 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:31,590 It's total disbelief. 168 00:11:42,034 --> 00:11:43,934 -My wife had a lesbian affair? 169 00:11:46,689 --> 00:11:48,859 I'm a, you know, Welshman. 170 00:11:48,862 --> 00:11:50,550 I mean, you can't have that. 171 00:11:50,551 --> 00:11:53,241 I think the motive is there. 172 00:11:57,689 --> 00:11:59,069 The role of investigative journalist 173 00:11:59,070 --> 00:12:00,858 is to hold people account, 174 00:12:01,724 --> 00:12:04,214 you know, be a troublemaker, 175 00:12:05,103 --> 00:12:06,663 and the police don't like it. 176 00:12:17,275 --> 00:12:19,475 In the first couple weeks, 177 00:12:19,482 --> 00:12:22,205 they probably had all the evidence they needed 178 00:12:22,206 --> 00:12:25,856 in relation to what was the worst murder case 179 00:12:25,862 --> 00:12:26,722 they'd ever had. 180 00:12:28,517 --> 00:12:33,517 I mean, that E-fit is exactly like Stephen Lewis 181 00:12:34,586 --> 00:12:35,956 and is a 90% likeness of the person 182 00:12:35,965 --> 00:12:39,685 Nicola Williams spotted near the murder scene. 183 00:12:39,689 --> 00:12:41,549 That's what the documents show. 184 00:12:42,551 --> 00:12:44,001 Didn't do anything with it. 185 00:12:45,448 --> 00:12:47,648 They just couldn't believe it. 186 00:12:47,655 --> 00:12:48,445 One of our own? 187 00:12:50,758 --> 00:12:52,516 Why did you choose 188 00:12:52,517 --> 00:12:54,927 to not show the public this E-fit? 189 00:12:54,931 --> 00:12:58,171 -This person was carrying something under their arm. 190 00:12:58,172 --> 00:12:59,692 Because we knew that the killer 191 00:13:00,965 --> 00:13:02,925 didn't bring anything with him to the scene, 192 00:13:04,103 --> 00:13:05,693 didn't bring anything to start the fire with 193 00:13:05,694 --> 00:13:07,205 or a murder weapon, 194 00:13:07,206 --> 00:13:11,856 and this sighting took place well after the murders, 195 00:13:11,862 --> 00:13:14,412 I didn't feel that this person was the killer. 196 00:13:16,310 --> 00:13:18,140 I didn't wanna swamp this investigation, 197 00:13:18,141 --> 00:13:21,067 grinding it down by putting E-fits out 198 00:13:21,068 --> 00:13:23,618 and for the inquiry team to spend their whole time 199 00:13:23,620 --> 00:13:25,757 tracing people who were in that area 200 00:13:25,758 --> 00:13:26,998 based upon an E-fit. 201 00:13:29,724 --> 00:13:31,590 So you didn't wanna swamp the investigation, 202 00:13:31,591 --> 00:13:32,616 but when you said- 203 00:13:32,620 --> 00:13:33,830 -I didn't think it was relevant. 204 00:13:37,758 --> 00:13:39,688 It's now five weeks since the murders 205 00:13:39,689 --> 00:13:41,378 and there has been no arrest, 206 00:13:41,379 --> 00:13:43,209 but they're anxious to reassure people 207 00:13:43,210 --> 00:13:45,166 that the inquiry continues. 208 00:13:45,172 --> 00:13:47,272 -I want to make sure that when we catch this killer, 209 00:13:47,275 --> 00:13:49,205 that the correct person's arrested, 210 00:13:49,206 --> 00:13:51,026 put before the court and convicted, 211 00:13:51,034 --> 00:13:53,033 and never ever comes out of prison again. 212 00:13:53,034 --> 00:13:54,343 -It's six weeks 213 00:13:54,344 --> 00:13:56,104 since the village of Clydach was shocked 214 00:13:56,105 --> 00:13:57,895 by the killing of Mandy Power, 215 00:13:57,896 --> 00:13:59,756 her two young daughters, and her mother. 216 00:14:03,344 --> 00:14:05,895 -The team are totally dedicated. 217 00:14:05,896 --> 00:14:08,066 We've gone a long way forward in five months, 218 00:14:08,068 --> 00:14:09,138 absolutely positive. 219 00:14:12,310 --> 00:14:15,826 -The sense of loss, pain, and anguish that we feel 220 00:14:15,827 --> 00:14:17,407 is indescribable 221 00:14:17,413 --> 00:14:19,213 and lives with us all night and day. 222 00:14:20,413 --> 00:14:23,103 We pray every day that justice will be done. 223 00:14:27,344 --> 00:14:30,826 -We, as a family, believe that Mandy knew her killer. 224 00:14:30,827 --> 00:14:34,307 Someone out there is shielding him at the moment. 225 00:14:37,517 --> 00:14:38,826 -And with no arrest yet, 226 00:14:38,827 --> 00:14:40,205 it must be said, 227 00:14:40,206 --> 00:14:42,476 there's considerable disquiet within the community. 228 00:14:42,482 --> 00:14:45,895 After all, this was a murder, a terrible murder, 229 00:14:45,896 --> 00:14:49,236 committed by someone who knew Mandy Powell well, 230 00:14:49,241 --> 00:14:51,930 someone linked to her personal life, 231 00:14:51,931 --> 00:14:55,691 and they can't understand why no arrest has yet been made. 232 00:15:02,241 --> 00:15:04,791 -We were getting pressure now from the community, 233 00:15:04,793 --> 00:15:06,895 and I understand that. 234 00:15:06,896 --> 00:15:09,166 People want, "What's happening here?" 235 00:15:09,172 --> 00:15:11,861 You know, this is a terrible, terrible murder. 236 00:15:11,862 --> 00:15:13,932 What are you doing to solve this, please? 237 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:24,930 Everybody was talking about the Lewises, 238 00:15:24,931 --> 00:15:27,311 the Lewises, the Lewises, the Lewises. 239 00:15:28,931 --> 00:15:29,861 Was it them? 240 00:15:29,863 --> 00:15:31,173 Some were convinced it was. 241 00:15:36,241 --> 00:15:37,831 -A difficulty in this particular case, 242 00:15:37,832 --> 00:15:40,067 as far as the Lewises were concerned, 243 00:15:40,068 --> 00:15:42,618 Stephen and Allison had a concrete alibi 244 00:15:42,620 --> 00:15:43,720 as to where they were. 245 00:15:48,310 --> 00:15:49,790 He was at home. 246 00:15:49,793 --> 00:15:51,826 -How can you be so sure of that? 247 00:15:51,827 --> 00:15:53,207 -I said to the police, 248 00:15:53,208 --> 00:15:55,205 I woke up twice during the night. 249 00:15:55,206 --> 00:15:58,236 I don't know the time of the first time I woke up. 250 00:16:00,551 --> 00:16:03,757 But the second time that I got up was half past four. 251 00:16:03,758 --> 00:16:06,278 And the both times I woke up, he was there. 252 00:16:09,931 --> 00:16:10,861 -Evidence. 253 00:16:12,310 --> 00:16:15,520 You know, we can't manufacture evidence. 254 00:16:16,448 --> 00:16:18,068 We have to find it. 255 00:16:22,758 --> 00:16:24,478 -What I intend to do today is to first of all, 256 00:16:24,482 --> 00:16:25,342 talk about, 257 00:16:27,379 --> 00:16:31,619 effectively, tell you about the state of the investigation. 258 00:16:31,620 --> 00:16:34,480 -Still, nobody has been charged. 259 00:16:34,482 --> 00:16:36,002 It's nearly a year since the murder 260 00:16:36,003 --> 00:16:38,720 of three generations of the same family 261 00:16:38,724 --> 00:16:41,240 in the Clydach area of Swansea. 262 00:16:41,241 --> 00:16:46,171 Once you get a year in on a big inquiry, 263 00:16:46,172 --> 00:16:48,999 it's pretty disheartening for the police. 264 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:50,030 -It is not too late. 265 00:16:50,034 --> 00:16:51,205 12 months have passed. 266 00:16:51,206 --> 00:16:52,240 It doesn't mean it's too late 267 00:16:52,241 --> 00:16:54,861 for these people to come forward. 268 00:16:54,862 --> 00:16:58,102 -Martyn had enormous responsibility. 269 00:16:58,103 --> 00:16:59,343 This is the sort of thing 270 00:16:59,344 --> 00:17:02,171 that is a make or break for a career. 271 00:17:02,172 --> 00:17:03,342 I mean, people are frightened. 272 00:17:03,344 --> 00:17:04,454 This person's out there 273 00:17:04,455 --> 00:17:06,028 and is in their midst. 274 00:17:08,448 --> 00:17:09,718 This is someone they think 275 00:17:09,724 --> 00:17:12,033 is sitting on the bus next to them, 276 00:17:12,034 --> 00:17:15,136 who could be in the shop just across the street, 277 00:17:15,137 --> 00:17:17,407 who could be driving past them at any moment. 278 00:17:20,241 --> 00:17:21,761 The media are pointing fingers, saying, 279 00:17:21,762 --> 00:17:23,658 "Why can't you solve this?" 280 00:17:54,551 --> 00:17:56,691 Right, if the murders are on the 26th... 281 00:17:56,692 --> 00:18:00,516 What took place that Saturday afternoon? 282 00:18:00,517 --> 00:18:02,377 During the day on Saturday, 283 00:18:03,241 --> 00:18:05,001 Mandy bought two bottles of wine 284 00:18:05,002 --> 00:18:06,000 down in Somerfield. 285 00:18:10,517 --> 00:18:12,617 And the reason she bought them 286 00:18:12,620 --> 00:18:14,100 is because...? 287 00:18:14,103 --> 00:18:15,551 She thought Alison was coming down that night. 288 00:18:15,552 --> 00:18:16,723 She thought Alison was coming down 289 00:18:16,724 --> 00:18:18,144 to Mandy's house? 290 00:18:20,793 --> 00:18:21,903 On the Saturday night? 291 00:18:33,620 --> 00:18:37,070 -If Alison Lewis had gone to see Mandy later that evening, 292 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:42,380 this is a really important matter within the case. 293 00:18:45,275 --> 00:18:47,235 What else did you tell the police? 294 00:18:48,344 --> 00:18:50,694 -A few weeks before the murders, 295 00:18:52,758 --> 00:18:54,278 I was in my mother's 296 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,240 and I walked from the back room to the hallway 297 00:19:00,241 --> 00:19:02,311 and a car screeched up at the front. 298 00:19:04,206 --> 00:19:06,926 And there's a wind door by my mother's front door. 299 00:19:09,517 --> 00:19:10,997 And it was open, 300 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:12,000 so I peeped. 301 00:19:13,448 --> 00:19:16,168 And you could just see the top of Mandy's steps. 302 00:19:19,172 --> 00:19:20,722 This guy got out. 303 00:19:20,724 --> 00:19:22,414 He had black trousers on, white shirt 304 00:19:22,415 --> 00:19:25,523 and a shiny jacket thing. 305 00:19:26,724 --> 00:19:30,067 So I was looking and he looked annoyed 306 00:19:30,068 --> 00:19:31,758 and then he was screaming at her. 307 00:19:33,275 --> 00:19:34,205 He said, 308 00:19:34,206 --> 00:19:35,172 "Stay away from my fucking wife 309 00:19:35,173 --> 00:19:36,483 or fucking I'll kill you." 310 00:19:41,896 --> 00:19:43,956 And how sure are you of who it was? 311 00:19:43,965 --> 00:19:46,025 -I'm positive. I'm positive. 312 00:19:46,034 --> 00:19:48,104 -And who was it? -It was Stephen. 313 00:19:49,310 --> 00:19:50,378 Well, I came out. 314 00:19:50,379 --> 00:19:51,619 Steve had come down the steps, 315 00:19:51,620 --> 00:19:54,309 right when I got to there by the gate 316 00:19:54,310 --> 00:19:55,999 and Mandy was on the floor. 317 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:57,378 The door was open. 318 00:19:57,379 --> 00:20:00,205 She was on the floor against the wall like that, 319 00:20:00,206 --> 00:20:01,756 kneeling down. 320 00:20:01,758 --> 00:20:04,788 And the kids were on top of the stairs crying, you know? 321 00:20:06,103 --> 00:20:07,723 I said, "What's happened?" 322 00:20:09,034 --> 00:20:10,999 I said, "What's he doing here?" 323 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:13,550 And she went, "I think he knows." 324 00:20:16,379 --> 00:20:17,759 Mandy was destroyed. 325 00:20:21,620 --> 00:20:22,860 -I was a bit concerned 326 00:20:22,862 --> 00:20:24,902 as to why she hadn't given this before, 327 00:20:24,903 --> 00:20:28,406 when clearly was really important to this investigation. 328 00:20:35,137 --> 00:20:37,617 Why have you taken so long? 329 00:20:37,620 --> 00:20:39,270 You said before not to keep anything from you. 330 00:20:39,275 --> 00:20:41,645 And my mother tells me one thing. 331 00:20:41,655 --> 00:20:42,955 If I've got something to say to you, 332 00:20:42,965 --> 00:20:45,025 she'll say, "Oh, don't say that, like." 333 00:20:45,034 --> 00:20:46,384 And then you tell me to tell the truth. 334 00:20:46,385 --> 00:20:48,929 And then my mother tells me not to say anything. 335 00:20:48,931 --> 00:20:50,381 I don't know who to tell then. 336 00:20:54,137 --> 00:20:56,097 -If what Louise Pugh said was true 337 00:20:57,275 --> 00:21:00,645 and Stephen Lewis knew about the affair, 338 00:21:00,655 --> 00:21:03,445 if Alison did go there that night, 339 00:21:03,448 --> 00:21:07,028 was it the case that Stephen Lewis had followed her? 340 00:21:07,965 --> 00:21:09,445 Quite clearly, that moved them 341 00:21:09,448 --> 00:21:13,478 from the category of being witnesses to being suspects. 342 00:21:15,068 --> 00:21:16,826 -The detectives told me that 343 00:21:16,827 --> 00:21:18,897 they thought it was Alison 344 00:21:21,517 --> 00:21:22,517 and Stephen. 345 00:21:27,310 --> 00:21:29,030 -We have to act. We have to act. 346 00:21:29,034 --> 00:21:30,554 That's based on the evidence we have 347 00:21:30,555 --> 00:21:33,931 and let's deal with them in the appropriate fashion. 348 00:21:35,413 --> 00:21:37,210 -Well, we can go live now to Swansea 349 00:21:37,211 --> 00:21:39,026 and our chief reporter, Penny Roberts. 350 00:21:39,034 --> 00:21:40,619 Penny? 351 00:21:40,620 --> 00:21:41,860 -Thanks, Jane. 352 00:21:41,862 --> 00:21:43,274 Well, you join me at Cockett police station, 353 00:21:43,275 --> 00:21:44,825 which for the past 12 months 354 00:21:44,827 --> 00:21:47,717 has been the headquarters of this murder investigation. 355 00:21:47,724 --> 00:21:50,654 Detectives have told us that a 33-year-old woman 356 00:21:50,655 --> 00:21:54,305 and a 38-year-old man were arrested on suspicion of murder. 357 00:21:56,241 --> 00:21:57,829 There was a knock on the door 358 00:21:57,830 --> 00:21:59,337 at 10 to seven in the morning. 359 00:21:59,344 --> 00:22:02,550 And I went downstairs half asleep and opened the door. 360 00:22:02,551 --> 00:22:04,341 And there was some officers there 361 00:22:04,344 --> 00:22:07,284 and told me I was being arrested for the murders. 362 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:10,519 I wanted to scream at them, 363 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:12,787 "You know, you're making a dreadful mistake here." 364 00:22:16,517 --> 00:22:19,067 I thought, "This isn't happening. 365 00:22:19,068 --> 00:22:21,588 After all this time, this isn't happening." 366 00:22:22,931 --> 00:22:25,241 Several police officers came into my bedroom. 367 00:22:29,034 --> 00:22:30,764 They took me out onto the landing. 368 00:22:32,793 --> 00:22:34,863 And when I looked into the bedroom, 369 00:22:37,413 --> 00:22:40,033 my daughters were on the bed, crying, 370 00:22:41,241 --> 00:22:43,001 holding onto each other, terrified. 371 00:22:45,448 --> 00:22:46,688 And I said, 372 00:22:46,689 --> 00:22:50,339 "Please don't do this in front of my children." 373 00:22:51,793 --> 00:22:52,933 And they handcuffed me. 374 00:22:56,379 --> 00:22:57,899 And then they took me away. 375 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,309 Few miles away at Morriston police station, 376 00:23:17,310 --> 00:23:19,895 officers are on 24-hour guard. 377 00:23:19,896 --> 00:23:21,616 Alison Lewis is being held here 378 00:23:21,620 --> 00:23:23,588 and is being questioned in an interview room 379 00:23:23,589 --> 00:23:24,996 at the back of the building. 380 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,067 Was Alison Lewis a killer? 381 00:23:27,068 --> 00:23:29,168 Was her husband with her? 382 00:23:29,172 --> 00:23:31,102 Neighbors are still trying to come to terms 383 00:23:31,103 --> 00:23:32,523 with the news of the arrest. 384 00:23:33,620 --> 00:23:34,829 -I can't swallow it, love. 385 00:23:34,830 --> 00:23:35,787 I'm awful sorry. 386 00:23:35,794 --> 00:23:37,343 I can't accept in my mind yet. 387 00:23:37,344 --> 00:23:39,004 -Everybody's innocent until proved guilty. 388 00:23:39,005 --> 00:23:40,309 But I just can't believe it. 389 00:23:40,310 --> 00:23:41,790 She's such a nice girl. 390 00:23:45,896 --> 00:23:49,656 -The first day of interview, I was the murderer. 391 00:23:51,931 --> 00:23:55,591 They kept telling me how I was going to prison for life. 392 00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,410 They kept telling me how they had all this information, 393 00:23:59,413 --> 00:24:01,143 all this evidence against me. 394 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:03,309 They did everything they could 395 00:24:03,310 --> 00:24:07,830 to get me to admit to the murders. 396 00:24:10,344 --> 00:24:12,757 They thought that I'd made arrangements 397 00:24:12,758 --> 00:24:14,828 to go and see Mandy later that night. 398 00:24:22,241 --> 00:24:25,826 Did you indicate to Mandy 399 00:24:25,827 --> 00:24:28,857 that you would go to 9 Kelvin Road 400 00:24:28,862 --> 00:24:30,412 later that night? 401 00:24:30,413 --> 00:24:31,963 No. 402 00:24:31,965 --> 00:24:33,995 Or suggest that you would go there for a meal? 403 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:35,660 -No. -For instance, a curry? 404 00:24:36,620 --> 00:24:37,480 No. 405 00:24:37,483 --> 00:24:39,653 -You didn't? -No. 406 00:24:39,655 --> 00:24:40,515 Not at all. 407 00:24:43,413 --> 00:24:45,002 Were you open, yourself and Mandy, 408 00:24:45,003 --> 00:24:46,309 about your relationship? 409 00:24:46,310 --> 00:24:49,619 I wasn't, but Mandy told people. 410 00:24:49,620 --> 00:24:51,900 It was obviously a secret because of Stephen. 411 00:24:56,896 --> 00:24:58,716 Did her husband know about this? 412 00:25:00,551 --> 00:25:02,241 Did he get to find out about this? 413 00:25:03,310 --> 00:25:04,720 Did they talk about this? 414 00:25:07,241 --> 00:25:09,411 As your relationship with Mandy 415 00:25:09,413 --> 00:25:10,688 became more intense 416 00:25:10,689 --> 00:25:12,719 and you saw more and more of each other, 417 00:25:12,724 --> 00:25:14,274 how difficult was that for you 418 00:25:14,275 --> 00:25:16,445 to conceal then from Steve? 419 00:25:16,448 --> 00:25:19,478 Well, we were spending a lot of time together, 420 00:25:19,482 --> 00:25:21,622 but I did my best to hide it from him. 421 00:25:22,758 --> 00:25:25,688 And to this day, I don't think he did know. 422 00:25:25,689 --> 00:25:27,969 People say to me, "He must have known," 423 00:25:29,103 --> 00:25:31,143 but really he had no reason to. 424 00:25:35,931 --> 00:25:38,411 -He was devastated by, obviously, the arrest, 425 00:25:38,413 --> 00:25:41,447 and by the interviews and what was put to him. 426 00:25:41,448 --> 00:25:43,067 He was under medication. 427 00:25:43,068 --> 00:25:44,828 He didn't eat for four days. 428 00:25:48,206 --> 00:25:50,136 He was in a sorry state, really. 429 00:25:50,137 --> 00:25:51,067 But you didn't think 430 00:25:51,068 --> 00:25:52,067 that sorry state was suspicious? 431 00:25:52,068 --> 00:25:52,928 -No. 432 00:25:58,862 --> 00:26:00,067 At any point, 433 00:26:00,068 --> 00:26:01,718 did you start to doubt Stephen? 434 00:26:02,758 --> 00:26:03,588 -No. 435 00:26:04,827 --> 00:26:06,205 No. 436 00:26:06,206 --> 00:26:07,716 I think they tried. 437 00:26:07,724 --> 00:26:10,826 Always, I think they tried to make me think it was him. 438 00:26:10,827 --> 00:26:13,477 At one point, one of the police officers said to me, 439 00:26:13,482 --> 00:26:16,342 "He's singing like a canary in there." 440 00:26:17,448 --> 00:26:20,968 And I thought myself, "About what? 441 00:26:22,068 --> 00:26:24,618 What is he singing like a canary about?" 442 00:26:27,689 --> 00:26:29,309 -People I know were saying, 443 00:26:29,310 --> 00:26:34,310 "Ah, look, they're gonna protect these. Their own." 444 00:26:35,034 --> 00:26:36,550 How would it look 445 00:26:36,551 --> 00:26:39,619 "if police officers were involved in this murder?" 446 00:26:39,620 --> 00:26:41,688 You know, would they want to protect 447 00:26:41,689 --> 00:26:43,309 the name of South Wales Police? 448 00:26:43,310 --> 00:26:45,240 Rubbish. Absolute not. 449 00:26:51,586 --> 00:26:53,446 -In the end. I said to them, 450 00:26:53,448 --> 00:26:57,928 "Please tell me you have got more than this. 451 00:26:57,931 --> 00:27:02,931 Please tell me that you haven't ruined my life on this." 452 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,930 After all what the police had been telling me, 453 00:27:12,931 --> 00:27:14,971 and they were now putting me out on bail. 454 00:27:18,172 --> 00:27:19,722 I think the pubs had closed 455 00:27:19,724 --> 00:27:22,243 and everyone descended on Morriston police station. 456 00:27:22,244 --> 00:27:24,311 And that's all they wanted, was my blood. 457 00:27:25,724 --> 00:27:28,244 Baying, screaming, shouting mob. 458 00:27:33,482 --> 00:27:36,378 The police covered me with equipment 459 00:27:36,379 --> 00:27:39,069 and blankets and things. 460 00:27:43,344 --> 00:27:45,826 There was a driver and a passenger 461 00:27:45,827 --> 00:27:46,997 and the passenger was there, 462 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,100 and I heard him saying to the driver, 463 00:27:49,103 --> 00:27:51,826 "Whatever you do, don't stop. 464 00:27:51,827 --> 00:27:54,516 Doesn't matter what happens. You don't stop." 465 00:27:54,517 --> 00:27:56,237 And he was frightened. 466 00:27:56,241 --> 00:27:58,721 I could hear the fear in his voice. 467 00:27:58,724 --> 00:28:02,067 And I remember lying on the floor of the car 468 00:28:02,068 --> 00:28:06,408 thinking, "I'm gonna die here in the back of this car." 469 00:28:07,586 --> 00:28:09,756 And I won't be able to prove that I'm innocent. 470 00:28:11,172 --> 00:28:15,516 "I won't be able to show that I haven't done this." 471 00:28:15,517 --> 00:28:19,517 I really thought that I was gonna be killed. 472 00:28:42,758 --> 00:28:44,958 -Somebody's gonna have to tell the public. 473 00:28:44,965 --> 00:28:46,335 And that was me. 474 00:28:46,344 --> 00:28:48,585 I thought, "Yeah, that's my job." 475 00:28:48,586 --> 00:28:51,446 So, okay. No ifs or buts, I'll do it. 476 00:28:54,172 --> 00:28:56,792 And I put a suit on and I went to work. 477 00:29:00,172 --> 00:29:01,792 The press were there in full. 478 00:29:01,793 --> 00:29:02,833 I'd done it on my own 479 00:29:07,034 --> 00:29:10,834 and I decided to keep it as short as possible. 480 00:29:13,172 --> 00:29:14,142 Okay. Thanks for coming along. 481 00:29:14,143 --> 00:29:14,997 Good afternoon. 482 00:29:17,517 --> 00:29:19,516 My statement on behalf of South Wales Police 483 00:29:19,517 --> 00:29:22,205 is simply this. 484 00:29:22,206 --> 00:29:23,756 A file of evidence has been submitted 485 00:29:23,758 --> 00:29:25,205 by South Wales Police 486 00:29:25,206 --> 00:29:27,616 to the Crown Prosecution Service. 487 00:29:27,620 --> 00:29:30,410 Having examined the file of evidence, 488 00:29:31,793 --> 00:29:35,136 we've been informed that there is insufficient evidence 489 00:29:35,137 --> 00:29:37,787 to mount a successful prosecution 490 00:29:37,793 --> 00:29:39,313 in connection with the murders. 491 00:29:40,862 --> 00:29:45,861 The man and the woman arrested, questioned, and bailed 492 00:29:45,862 --> 00:29:49,832 have now been released without charge. 493 00:29:52,206 --> 00:29:53,026 Thank you. 494 00:29:56,896 --> 00:29:58,406 -Bastards! -Get it done! 495 00:29:58,413 --> 00:30:02,903 For four days and then release the bastard! 496 00:30:07,413 --> 00:30:10,826 -There is now a distinct sense of unease and disappointment 497 00:30:10,827 --> 00:30:12,097 within this community 498 00:30:12,103 --> 00:30:15,213 that the killer or killers remain at large. 499 00:30:18,482 --> 00:30:19,762 -They were just looking for scapegoats. 500 00:30:19,763 --> 00:30:21,757 And I believe that I was one of those scapegoats. 501 00:30:21,758 --> 00:30:22,618 I know I was. 502 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,450 There was never any evidence because I'm innocent. 503 00:30:26,451 --> 00:30:28,828 I wasn't there. I didn't do it. 504 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,205 Why do you think they targeted you? 505 00:30:32,206 --> 00:30:33,996 -When the murders occurred, 506 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,660 myself and Mandy were having a relationship 507 00:30:37,620 --> 00:30:40,309 and because it became public, 508 00:30:40,310 --> 00:30:42,895 it was in the press, the newspapers. 509 00:30:42,896 --> 00:30:44,336 I believe that they thought 510 00:30:44,344 --> 00:30:47,004 the gay issue had something to do with the crime. 511 00:30:47,005 --> 00:30:49,410 My life will never be the same again. 512 00:30:49,413 --> 00:30:51,003 It will never be the same again. 513 00:30:55,896 --> 00:30:57,896 Do you feel bad about the Lewises? 514 00:31:01,448 --> 00:31:02,378 -It was sad. 515 00:31:02,379 --> 00:31:03,379 It was sad it had to happen, 516 00:31:03,380 --> 00:31:04,999 but it had to happen. 517 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,067 And sadly, in homicides investigations, 518 00:31:08,068 --> 00:31:09,518 there are casualties along the way, 519 00:31:09,519 --> 00:31:13,337 and they were some of the casualties, sadly. 520 00:31:27,103 --> 00:31:30,240 -I want to put everything behind me. 521 00:31:30,241 --> 00:31:35,241 And one way of showing the public once and for all 522 00:31:36,379 --> 00:31:40,205 that my family were totally innocent 523 00:31:40,206 --> 00:31:41,926 is me going back to work 524 00:31:41,931 --> 00:31:44,071 and being accepted back in work as well. 525 00:31:51,206 --> 00:31:53,476 -That is the E-fit that Nicola Williams did. 526 00:31:54,827 --> 00:31:56,067 Very good E-fit, 527 00:31:56,068 --> 00:32:00,658 very good likeness of Sergeant Stephen Lewis, 528 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,030 whose wife was having a lesbian affair with Mandy Power. 529 00:32:07,517 --> 00:32:11,617 That E-fit is a photo, in effect, of him, 530 00:32:13,413 --> 00:32:14,763 but he wasn't the only one. 531 00:32:19,965 --> 00:32:21,025 Oh my God. 532 00:32:22,931 --> 00:32:26,240 This is a bizarre, bizarre case. 533 00:32:26,241 --> 00:32:29,031 He had an identical twin brother, Stuart Lewis, 534 00:32:30,620 --> 00:32:32,999 who happened to be the first senior officer 535 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:34,970 on the scene of the Clydach murders. 536 00:32:37,482 --> 00:32:39,102 You know, I mean, you couldn't make this up. 537 00:32:39,103 --> 00:32:41,483 It's like something from a play. 538 00:32:43,103 --> 00:32:43,973 Unbelievable. 539 00:32:53,896 --> 00:32:55,956 Around the time of the killings, 540 00:32:55,965 --> 00:33:00,685 Stuart Lewis, the identical twin brother of Stephen Lewis, 541 00:33:00,689 --> 00:33:02,169 went missing. 542 00:33:06,206 --> 00:33:11,206 He was alone driving an unmarked police car, 543 00:33:11,965 --> 00:33:13,655 a red Peugeot diesel. 544 00:33:15,310 --> 00:33:18,590 And witnesses spotted a car exactly like that 545 00:33:19,827 --> 00:33:21,307 on Kelvin Road. 546 00:33:25,068 --> 00:33:28,998 He went out on patrol, but nobody knows where he went. 547 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:32,999 There's no record, no log book. That went missing. 548 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:34,590 Nothing. Nothing. 549 00:33:39,241 --> 00:33:44,136 Stuart Lewis had actually changed his shift pattern. 550 00:33:44,137 --> 00:33:47,277 So he was on duty that night 551 00:33:48,862 --> 00:33:53,592 because he had a christening to go to the next day. 552 00:33:55,482 --> 00:34:00,522 And bizarrely, he was first senior officer on the scene. 553 00:34:03,310 --> 00:34:05,030 And he was there for a few minutes. 554 00:34:09,310 --> 00:34:10,960 Then, unbelievably, 555 00:34:10,965 --> 00:34:13,995 he didn't tell any of his colleagues it was a murder. 556 00:34:15,310 --> 00:34:16,720 He didn't look at the bodies, 557 00:34:16,724 --> 00:34:19,004 didn't register it officially on the computer 558 00:34:19,005 --> 00:34:20,520 as a murder inquiry. 559 00:34:22,931 --> 00:34:25,516 I mean, his friends in the force 560 00:34:25,517 --> 00:34:27,957 called him Inspector Perfect, 561 00:34:27,965 --> 00:34:30,095 because he was so meticulous 562 00:34:30,103 --> 00:34:32,585 and did everything by the book. 563 00:34:32,586 --> 00:34:36,966 So to behave in that manner is very odd. 564 00:34:39,068 --> 00:34:42,238 It made me doubt him. 565 00:34:52,172 --> 00:34:54,309 -I arrived at six o'clock. 566 00:34:54,310 --> 00:34:55,310 I couldn't find the guy. 567 00:34:55,311 --> 00:34:56,691 I didn't know where he was. 568 00:34:58,517 --> 00:35:00,307 He was a competent officer. 569 00:35:00,310 --> 00:35:02,410 He should have dealt with this differently. 570 00:35:05,034 --> 00:35:06,622 The killer left by the back door. 571 00:35:06,623 --> 00:35:08,650 Therefore the back should have been secured, 572 00:35:08,655 --> 00:35:09,615 which it wasn't. 573 00:35:10,758 --> 00:35:13,067 I would've expected people not to be allowed 574 00:35:13,068 --> 00:35:14,308 to go into the scene. 575 00:35:15,344 --> 00:35:16,934 I think his behavior didn't help 576 00:35:16,935 --> 00:35:19,481 in the preservation of any forensic evidence. 577 00:35:23,724 --> 00:35:25,826 It may well be that he panicked, 578 00:35:25,827 --> 00:35:27,717 realizing that, "Hang on a minute", 579 00:35:28,896 --> 00:35:31,686 my twin brother's wife is having a relationship 580 00:35:31,689 --> 00:35:32,859 with that victim. 581 00:35:32,862 --> 00:35:34,378 "What does that mean?" 582 00:35:34,379 --> 00:35:35,929 I don't know. I don't know why. 583 00:35:40,034 --> 00:35:43,144 I passed this on to professional standards department. 584 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,650 The internal inquiry certainly suggested 585 00:35:47,655 --> 00:35:50,205 he had a case to answer for misconduct 586 00:35:50,206 --> 00:35:51,476 because he didn't do at the scene 587 00:35:51,482 --> 00:35:52,722 what he should have done. 588 00:35:55,896 --> 00:35:56,996 -In nearby Alltwern, 589 00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,067 the home of inspector Stuart Lewis, 590 00:35:59,068 --> 00:36:01,205 an officer with 20 years service, 591 00:36:01,206 --> 00:36:04,236 forensic teams have been carrying out extensive searches. 592 00:36:07,344 --> 00:36:09,999 -Armed with the information that we had, 593 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,999 I decided then Stuart should be arrested 594 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,270 for perverting the course of justice. 595 00:36:20,413 --> 00:36:24,240 -Stuart Lewis was never questioned by the police 596 00:36:24,241 --> 00:36:26,271 as a murder suspect. 597 00:36:26,275 --> 00:36:27,715 Only we did that. 598 00:36:33,068 --> 00:36:36,205 We had to use subterfuge, you know, 599 00:36:36,206 --> 00:36:39,516 secret filming in order to get him on camera. 600 00:36:43,517 --> 00:36:44,787 I've interviewed a lot of people 601 00:36:44,793 --> 00:36:47,999 in very difficult circumstances. 602 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,309 And Stuart Lewis, the interview with him 603 00:36:51,310 --> 00:36:55,830 was one of the most odd I've experienced. 604 00:36:58,517 --> 00:37:02,517 I felt on edge and I know my producer felt on edge as well. 605 00:37:04,413 --> 00:37:07,826 I wanted to show him the E-fit of the man 606 00:37:07,827 --> 00:37:10,067 who was seen by Nicola Williams, 607 00:37:10,068 --> 00:37:12,308 who was a dead ringer for him 608 00:37:12,310 --> 00:37:14,280 or his identical twin brother. 609 00:37:15,896 --> 00:37:16,786 Now that, 610 00:37:18,965 --> 00:37:21,335 I mean, that is a very good likeness 611 00:37:22,448 --> 00:37:25,447 of Stephen, your twin brother, or you. 612 00:37:25,448 --> 00:37:26,928 -When I saw that, I thought, 613 00:37:26,931 --> 00:37:29,690 "Jesus Christ, you know, that's an amazing portrait." 614 00:37:29,691 --> 00:37:31,619 And the question you should be asking is, 615 00:37:31,620 --> 00:37:33,999 why wasn't anything done about that? 616 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:35,480 When I saw it, I was amazed. 617 00:37:35,482 --> 00:37:37,760 Well, we're asking those questions as well. 618 00:37:37,761 --> 00:37:39,998 Believe me, we're asking those questions as well. 619 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:42,270 Why weren't you put on an identity program? 620 00:37:42,275 --> 00:37:44,925 -Within seven days. 621 00:37:44,931 --> 00:37:46,791 -The point is, if that existed anywhere, 622 00:37:46,793 --> 00:37:47,903 even Stephen would say it. 623 00:37:47,904 --> 00:37:49,516 "The two of us shouldn't be involved." 624 00:37:49,517 --> 00:37:50,787 -Yeah, yeah. -"We shouldn't be." 625 00:37:50,793 --> 00:37:52,688 Nobody had ever said that 626 00:37:52,689 --> 00:37:55,209 I'm responsible for the murders. 627 00:37:56,724 --> 00:37:58,214 -It suddenly dawned on him, 628 00:37:59,620 --> 00:38:03,520 "Am I being questioned here as a murder suspect?" 629 00:38:05,482 --> 00:38:07,832 When he realized this, he left. 630 00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,340 Went to toilet, never came back again. 631 00:38:23,068 --> 00:38:26,028 Nicola Williams had no reason to lie. 632 00:38:26,034 --> 00:38:31,034 And she saw a person going up the road towards Kelvin Road. 633 00:38:32,241 --> 00:38:34,521 She looked at him and he looked back at her. 634 00:38:35,655 --> 00:38:38,095 And one of the reasons she looked at him 635 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:40,895 was 'cause she actually thought, 636 00:38:40,896 --> 00:38:43,446 "Well, actually, he's quite fit. 637 00:38:43,448 --> 00:38:45,588 I quite fancy him." 638 00:38:47,827 --> 00:38:49,377 So I mean, they had everything. 639 00:38:51,344 --> 00:38:54,144 They had everything on a plate. 640 00:38:56,517 --> 00:38:58,897 -I think it would be dangerous for me to say 641 00:38:58,898 --> 00:39:00,756 that looked like Stuart Lewis, 642 00:39:00,758 --> 00:39:02,897 but I mean, people got to make their own minds up 643 00:39:02,898 --> 00:39:04,516 when they look at an E-fit 644 00:39:04,517 --> 00:39:08,407 and they make up their own minds as to who it resembles. 645 00:39:08,413 --> 00:39:10,622 It looks like Stephen Lewis or Stuart Lewis. 646 00:39:10,623 --> 00:39:12,309 -Could very well do to a lot of people. 647 00:39:12,310 --> 00:39:13,688 Absolutely. 648 00:39:13,689 --> 00:39:14,895 But I always say, 649 00:39:14,896 --> 00:39:17,895 and I'm not saying this to protect anyone 650 00:39:17,896 --> 00:39:20,236 or certainly not to protect the Lewises, 651 00:39:20,241 --> 00:39:25,241 caution has to be exercised when you look at E-fits. 652 00:39:28,172 --> 00:39:30,140 Did you ever believe that Stuart Lewis 653 00:39:30,141 --> 00:39:31,547 was involved in these murders? 654 00:39:31,551 --> 00:39:33,550 -Well, there was evidence to suggest 655 00:39:33,551 --> 00:39:35,721 that there were two series of fires. 656 00:39:37,068 --> 00:39:40,138 One fire had started probably half past 12, 1:00-ish. 657 00:39:42,172 --> 00:39:44,412 And subsequently, somebody returned to the scene 658 00:39:44,413 --> 00:39:46,243 and started a second series of fire. 659 00:39:47,413 --> 00:39:49,173 And when the second fire was started, 660 00:39:49,174 --> 00:39:52,447 Stuart Lewis was in a carpet shop 661 00:39:52,448 --> 00:39:54,788 where a police dog had bitten somebody. 662 00:39:54,793 --> 00:39:57,553 So he could not have been in Clydach at that time. 663 00:40:02,517 --> 00:40:04,136 The CPS reviewed the file 664 00:40:04,137 --> 00:40:07,067 and decided that Stuart Lewis didn't have a case to answer 665 00:40:07,068 --> 00:40:08,968 for perverting the course of justice. 666 00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:22,930 What do you say to people 667 00:40:22,931 --> 00:40:24,341 who believe that you didn't investigate 668 00:40:24,344 --> 00:40:25,826 the Lewises thoroughly 669 00:40:25,827 --> 00:40:26,997 and protected your own? 670 00:40:28,551 --> 00:40:31,101 -Well, I think it's an insult to say 671 00:40:31,103 --> 00:40:33,447 that the Lewises weren't investigated. 672 00:40:33,448 --> 00:40:36,338 Every aspect of their life was looked at, 673 00:40:36,344 --> 00:40:37,553 every movement of theirs. 674 00:40:37,554 --> 00:40:39,380 The phone records, everything was checked. 675 00:40:39,381 --> 00:40:41,969 I left no stone unturned in relation to the Lewises. 676 00:40:44,931 --> 00:40:47,171 -To protect people, 677 00:40:47,172 --> 00:40:50,032 whether a police officer or anybody else, 678 00:40:50,034 --> 00:40:53,694 is abhorrent, is absolutely a no-go. 679 00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:55,790 God. 680 00:40:57,172 --> 00:41:01,412 The thought of it sends shivers through my body even now. 681 00:41:03,827 --> 00:41:05,657 -They should have done a better job. 682 00:41:09,448 --> 00:41:12,998 I looked each and every one of those detectives in the eye. 683 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:14,070 I told them, no. 684 00:41:17,931 --> 00:41:19,001 I wasn't the murderer. 685 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:23,410 Their job was to find the truth, 686 00:41:23,413 --> 00:41:28,413 not to arrest us on half truths and on rumors and gossip. 687 00:41:30,517 --> 00:41:33,307 I can't see how somebody can walk into a house, 688 00:41:33,310 --> 00:41:35,070 a normal house in a normal village, 689 00:41:35,071 --> 00:41:37,338 and commit these crimes and walk away. 690 00:41:37,344 --> 00:41:40,144 And still, 18 months later, we are in the same position. 691 00:41:41,827 --> 00:41:45,067 -We just got to keep our confidence in the police 692 00:41:45,068 --> 00:41:49,788 and we know that they will sort things out eventually. 693 00:41:49,793 --> 00:41:53,861 And whoever did this terrible crime 694 00:41:53,862 --> 00:41:55,832 will be brought to justice. 695 00:42:03,413 --> 00:42:04,343 -"Oh, here we go. 696 00:42:04,345 --> 00:42:06,585 We start all over again." 697 00:42:06,586 --> 00:42:08,066 I think there was words to that effect. 698 00:42:08,068 --> 00:42:09,548 "Where do we go from here?" 699 00:42:09,551 --> 00:42:11,281 I mean, that's a classic, isn't it? 700 00:42:12,413 --> 00:42:14,313 -I suppose I was quite a dogged individual. 701 00:42:14,314 --> 00:42:17,140 I was unwilling to let the bone go 702 00:42:18,034 --> 00:42:19,792 and I'd always explore issues 703 00:42:19,793 --> 00:42:21,313 and go through one door 704 00:42:21,314 --> 00:42:23,585 then through another door to another door 705 00:42:23,586 --> 00:42:25,276 to hopefully get the final answer. 706 00:42:27,482 --> 00:42:30,826 -You discovered at the scene of the murders, 707 00:42:30,827 --> 00:42:33,447 this is identical to it, a chain like this. 708 00:42:33,448 --> 00:42:35,548 It's gold. Tell us about it and its significance. 709 00:42:35,551 --> 00:42:36,861 -It's a solid gold chain. 710 00:42:36,862 --> 00:42:39,032 It's manufactured in 1989. 711 00:42:39,034 --> 00:42:42,550 It was bought from places like Argos. 712 00:42:42,551 --> 00:42:46,205 It sold for just under 300 pound in 1989. 713 00:42:46,206 --> 00:42:47,476 And I've been interested to know 714 00:42:47,482 --> 00:42:49,962 who actually has got a necklace like that 715 00:42:49,965 --> 00:42:52,755 and has not had it since- -Saturday, the 26th of June. 716 00:42:52,758 --> 00:42:53,828 That's right. 717 00:42:59,310 --> 00:43:01,030 -The night of the murders, 718 00:43:01,034 --> 00:43:03,382 he was wearing the chain on the Saturday night 719 00:43:03,383 --> 00:43:04,379 in the new inn. 720 00:43:07,517 --> 00:43:09,717 Everybody was convinced he was the murderer. 721 00:43:12,413 --> 00:43:16,171 What made them so persistent in the belief, 722 00:43:16,172 --> 00:43:18,932 the false belief that the Lewises were involved? 723 00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:24,340 They seemed to be fascinated about the lesbian relationship. 724 00:43:24,344 --> 00:43:27,974 And I think the police were sidetracked on that issue. 725 00:43:48,448 --> 00:43:51,205 There's a good view of Clydach here. 726 00:43:51,206 --> 00:43:55,406 Where we can see two fir trees at the back there, 727 00:43:55,413 --> 00:43:59,619 that's approximately where Kelvin Road, Clydach is. 728 00:43:59,620 --> 00:44:02,270 And it's a secluded walk, mostly. 729 00:44:02,275 --> 00:44:03,785 There'd be no witnesses. 730 00:44:07,344 --> 00:44:09,792 A newcomer, Mr. David Morris, 731 00:44:09,793 --> 00:44:12,143 was living in the village. 732 00:44:13,724 --> 00:44:18,724 There were allegations of dangerous driving, drugs. 733 00:44:21,068 --> 00:44:25,478 Things like this are known to all, the whole of a village. 734 00:44:28,724 --> 00:44:33,484 Di Morris was living in this flat here, number 85, 735 00:44:36,034 --> 00:44:37,585 in a council flat 736 00:44:37,586 --> 00:44:40,996 which was tenanted to a Mrs. Mandy Jewell. 737 00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:44,000 He'd moved in with her as her partner. 738 00:44:45,172 --> 00:44:47,447 And after the murders, 739 00:44:47,448 --> 00:44:49,826 it became quite a common practice 740 00:44:49,827 --> 00:44:51,585 with some of the villagers, 741 00:44:51,586 --> 00:44:53,266 if you were talking to them on the road 742 00:44:53,275 --> 00:44:55,305 and Morris came along, 743 00:44:55,310 --> 00:44:57,585 people would say quietly to you, 744 00:44:57,586 --> 00:44:59,996 "Look, here comes Di, the murderer." 745 00:45:03,379 --> 00:45:04,829 I've got a dossier in my hands here 746 00:45:04,830 --> 00:45:07,307 that concerns David Morris. 747 00:45:07,310 --> 00:45:11,895 And what was coming to my hearing at the time, 748 00:45:11,896 --> 00:45:13,306 it's very serious. 749 00:45:13,310 --> 00:45:17,380 It was submitted two days after the murders to the police. 750 00:45:18,620 --> 00:45:20,100 One of the key points was that 751 00:45:20,103 --> 00:45:24,378 he was known to be a weapons man, 752 00:45:24,379 --> 00:45:27,099 not a fist man, a weapons man. 753 00:45:29,103 --> 00:45:32,619 Now, point one, record of violence. 754 00:45:32,620 --> 00:45:36,895 Point two, when violent, he becomes frenzied. 755 00:45:36,896 --> 00:45:40,896 Point three, when not violent, he can be very cool. 756 00:45:42,310 --> 00:45:47,070 Four, he and his partner knew all the victims personally, 757 00:45:48,034 --> 00:45:49,594 very well. 758 00:45:57,586 --> 00:45:59,136 -In Doris' bedroom, 759 00:45:59,137 --> 00:46:02,237 directly under where Mandy's body was, 760 00:46:02,241 --> 00:46:03,621 was found a gold chain. 761 00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:07,826 Where this chain was was really significant, 762 00:46:07,827 --> 00:46:09,717 indicating it had been pulled from somebody 763 00:46:09,724 --> 00:46:12,654 and was now lying soaked in blood 764 00:46:12,655 --> 00:46:13,995 where she'd been murdered. 765 00:46:18,310 --> 00:46:20,895 The forensic scientist picked it up, 766 00:46:20,896 --> 00:46:22,376 preserved it, 767 00:46:22,379 --> 00:46:23,930 and then took it to the forensic science authority 768 00:46:23,931 --> 00:46:24,931 to be examined. 769 00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:30,210 -There's no question that gold chain was important. 770 00:46:30,211 --> 00:46:31,786 Absolutely no question. 771 00:46:34,310 --> 00:46:36,480 It was both broken and had blood on it. 772 00:46:36,482 --> 00:46:39,067 Now you don't have to be Sherlock Holmes 773 00:46:39,068 --> 00:46:40,168 to put two and two together 774 00:46:40,172 --> 00:46:41,792 to suggest this is probably 775 00:46:41,793 --> 00:46:43,623 a very, very important clue. 776 00:46:45,758 --> 00:46:49,205 -What happened, there was an off-duty police officer 777 00:46:49,206 --> 00:46:51,406 had gone to a skittle match 778 00:46:51,413 --> 00:46:54,999 and the opposing team found out 779 00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:57,930 that she was a police officer. 780 00:46:57,931 --> 00:46:59,378 And they said, 781 00:46:59,379 --> 00:47:00,241 "You think we'll ever solve this terrible case, 782 00:47:00,242 --> 00:47:01,652 this Clydach case?" 783 00:47:01,655 --> 00:47:02,585 And she said, 784 00:47:02,587 --> 00:47:03,757 "Well, yeah, I suppose we will, 785 00:47:03,758 --> 00:47:05,518 if we find out whose chain it is." 786 00:47:05,519 --> 00:47:06,717 And then the witness said, 787 00:47:06,724 --> 00:47:08,454 "Well, that chain belongs to Di Morris." 788 00:47:12,862 --> 00:47:13,972 That's how it started. 789 00:47:13,973 --> 00:47:15,973 ---oOo--- 58789

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