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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:38,030 -I've been feeling guilty for the last 20 years. 2 00:00:39,448 --> 00:00:41,338 But I had to protect my family. 3 00:00:43,724 --> 00:00:45,314 This is why I never came forward. 4 00:00:51,379 --> 00:00:54,379 That night it was dark, 5 00:00:55,517 --> 00:00:57,307 driving up the mountain road. 6 00:01:01,310 --> 00:01:03,000 But I had full beam on 7 00:01:04,586 --> 00:01:06,026 and it lit up the whole lane. 8 00:01:10,206 --> 00:01:13,688 And when I come 'round that corner, 9 00:01:13,689 --> 00:01:15,309 he was in the middle of the road. 10 00:01:23,551 --> 00:01:25,241 I slammed on the brakes. 11 00:01:27,414 --> 00:01:31,214 The person I saw was by here. 12 00:01:33,655 --> 00:01:36,964 He ran cross here like this 13 00:01:36,965 --> 00:01:38,755 and he looked directly at me 14 00:01:40,103 --> 00:01:42,964 and I had perfect view of that person. 15 00:01:42,965 --> 00:01:43,925 Perfect view. 16 00:01:45,896 --> 00:01:48,306 And I know for a fact it was that person. 17 00:01:50,448 --> 00:01:51,658 The man in question. 18 00:01:57,655 --> 00:02:00,515 I've lived with this for so many years. 19 00:02:04,655 --> 00:02:06,615 I just want justice for that family. 20 00:02:12,586 --> 00:02:14,102 This was and still is 21 00:02:14,103 --> 00:02:15,933 the biggest murder inquiry ever seen in South Wales. 22 00:02:17,103 --> 00:02:19,309 After months often frustrating work, 23 00:02:19,310 --> 00:02:22,067 police have now arrested a 38 year old man 24 00:02:22,068 --> 00:02:24,068 on suspicion of murder. 25 00:02:49,689 --> 00:02:51,929 -For four days and they released the bastard! 26 00:03:20,724 --> 00:03:22,002 There's been no let-up 27 00:03:22,003 --> 00:03:24,033 in the intense police activity at the house 28 00:03:24,034 --> 00:03:27,384 in Trethwyn Road, a few miles up the valley from Clydach. 29 00:03:30,068 --> 00:03:32,412 Neighbors were awoken just after seven o'clock 30 00:03:32,413 --> 00:03:35,723 and saw David Morris being led away by the police. 31 00:03:35,724 --> 00:03:37,585 -There's a lot of police here, I know. 32 00:03:37,586 --> 00:03:38,999 I woke up this morning, just all I could see is 33 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:40,900 police everywhere and sergeants and you know what I mean, 34 00:03:40,901 --> 00:03:41,964 it was, uh... 35 00:03:41,965 --> 00:03:43,757 It was loads everywhere like. 36 00:03:43,758 --> 00:03:45,861 This new arrest is the latest development 37 00:03:45,862 --> 00:03:48,002 in the biggest murder inquiry ever mounted 38 00:03:48,003 --> 00:03:50,170 by South Wales Police. 39 00:03:52,758 --> 00:03:55,240 It's nearly two years since the battered bodies 40 00:03:55,241 --> 00:03:57,343 of three generations of the same family 41 00:03:57,344 --> 00:04:00,624 were found in their burned-out home in Kelvin Road. 42 00:04:04,137 --> 00:04:07,205 Teams of officers also search land adjoining a stream 43 00:04:07,206 --> 00:04:08,999 near the suspect's house 44 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:12,033 as word of the arrest reached Clydach. 45 00:04:12,034 --> 00:04:13,451 -People have been coming in and 46 00:04:13,452 --> 00:04:15,343 that's all they're talking about is that, er, 47 00:04:15,344 --> 00:04:17,384 the new developments and the fact that 48 00:04:17,385 --> 00:04:20,479 the police are looking to resolve the case. 49 00:04:22,586 --> 00:04:24,309 David Morris is now being held 50 00:04:24,310 --> 00:04:26,171 at an unnamed police station, 51 00:04:26,172 --> 00:04:28,692 where he's being questioned by senior detectives. 52 00:04:44,310 --> 00:04:46,171 This interview is being tape recorded 53 00:04:46,172 --> 00:04:47,895 and video recorded. 54 00:04:47,896 --> 00:04:49,412 When the light is eliminated, 55 00:04:49,413 --> 00:04:51,136 the interview is being monitored. 56 00:04:51,137 --> 00:04:52,309 Okay, David, you understand that? 57 00:04:52,310 --> 00:04:53,660 Yeah. 58 00:04:55,068 --> 00:04:56,550 The reason for this interview is because 59 00:04:56,551 --> 00:04:58,102 you've been arrested on suspicion of being involved 60 00:04:58,103 --> 00:05:01,550 in the murders of Doris Violet Dawson, 80 years, 61 00:05:01,551 --> 00:05:04,274 Amanda Jane Power, 34 years, 62 00:05:04,275 --> 00:05:08,135 Katie Jane Power, 10 years, and Emily Jane Power, 8 years. 63 00:05:09,241 --> 00:05:10,550 This is my opportunity to question you 64 00:05:10,551 --> 00:05:12,688 regarding this murder. 65 00:05:12,689 --> 00:05:14,899 It is also your opportunity to explain your involvement... 66 00:05:17,758 --> 00:05:18,999 After an 11 week trial, 67 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,102 this was the moment the family of the victims 68 00:05:21,103 --> 00:05:23,136 had waited for for so long. 69 00:05:23,137 --> 00:05:26,136 Justice at last for their loved ones. 70 00:05:26,137 --> 00:05:29,033 -It has been three long and difficult years 71 00:05:29,034 --> 00:05:31,619 sinc Mum, Mandy, Katie, and Emily were 72 00:05:31,620 --> 00:05:33,895 so cruelly taken from us. 73 00:05:33,896 --> 00:05:36,654 And today we know that evil person responsible for this 74 00:05:36,655 --> 00:05:38,855 will spend the rest of his life behind bars. 75 00:05:40,206 --> 00:05:41,895 David Morris's family, though, 76 00:05:41,896 --> 00:05:44,550 are looking to lawyers to launch an appeal. 77 00:05:44,551 --> 00:05:46,378 -We are devastated by the verdict. 78 00:05:46,379 --> 00:05:47,481 We're all with you, darlings! 79 00:05:47,482 --> 00:05:48,723 Thank you. 80 00:05:48,724 --> 00:05:49,964 -But we are unable to understand the evidence 81 00:05:49,965 --> 00:05:52,067 that was presented to the court. 82 00:05:52,068 --> 00:05:54,033 We are told by David's lawyers 83 00:05:54,034 --> 00:05:57,484 that there are good grounds for an appeal, which will be... 84 00:05:58,758 --> 00:06:00,309 commenced straight away. 85 00:06:00,310 --> 00:06:03,310 We are confident that justice will prevail. 86 00:06:09,827 --> 00:06:11,826 If I thought for one minute my brother was 87 00:06:11,827 --> 00:06:15,137 the Clydach murderer, he would be dead to me. 88 00:06:17,103 --> 00:06:19,619 How can you be so sure? 89 00:06:19,620 --> 00:06:23,447 -That's a question I've been asked before and 90 00:06:23,448 --> 00:06:24,999 that's the other thing that people have said, 91 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:26,723 "Are you sticking by him through blind faith?" 92 00:06:26,724 --> 00:06:27,864 and "You're ignoring things." 93 00:06:27,865 --> 00:06:29,412 I'm not ignoring anything. 94 00:06:29,413 --> 00:06:30,930 I know my brother. 95 00:06:30,931 --> 00:06:34,101 I know my brother a hundred percent like he knows me. 96 00:06:36,620 --> 00:06:37,590 Inside out. 97 00:06:40,965 --> 00:06:43,033 He had so much patience with his children. 98 00:06:43,034 --> 00:06:43,974 He always did. 99 00:06:47,206 --> 00:06:48,757 Yes, he used to get into trouble. 100 00:06:48,758 --> 00:06:51,788 We've never tried to paint a perfect picture of my brother. 101 00:06:54,965 --> 00:06:58,475 But he's not the monster that they made him out to be. 102 00:07:00,517 --> 00:07:02,723 You went to Mandy's that night. 103 00:07:02,724 --> 00:07:04,792 Something happened in that house 104 00:07:04,793 --> 00:07:06,283 and you committed the murders. 105 00:07:10,206 --> 00:07:12,206 -You know it wasn't me. 106 00:07:14,310 --> 00:07:15,139 Are you sure? 107 00:07:15,140 --> 00:07:16,000 -I'm positive. 108 00:07:16,001 --> 00:07:17,240 I've got no, 109 00:07:17,241 --> 00:07:19,211 I had no reason to hurt Mandy or her children. 110 00:07:19,212 --> 00:07:21,619 I got no possible reason whatsoever. 111 00:07:21,620 --> 00:07:24,033 You know, why the bloody hell would I do it? 112 00:07:24,034 --> 00:07:25,240 Okay. 113 00:07:25,241 --> 00:07:26,964 Before we, I mean saying what you did there, 114 00:07:26,965 --> 00:07:28,136 did you go there, David? 115 00:07:28,137 --> 00:07:29,997 -No. -We knew he didn't do it. 116 00:07:31,448 --> 00:07:33,619 So we honestly thought, no, he's not gonna get charged. 117 00:07:33,620 --> 00:07:35,720 They're gonna question him, he'll be home. 118 00:07:37,103 --> 00:07:38,933 And then I thought, well, 119 00:07:40,275 --> 00:07:43,412 knowing South Wales Police reputation, then we were scared. 120 00:07:43,413 --> 00:07:45,663 Then we were really scared because we knew 121 00:07:46,827 --> 00:07:48,617 pretty much what they're capable of. 122 00:07:50,517 --> 00:07:51,337 -Innocent! 123 00:07:53,275 --> 00:07:54,102 -Fucking innocent, man. 124 00:07:54,103 --> 00:07:55,003 Fucking set up! 125 00:07:56,689 --> 00:07:58,171 One police force in Britain 126 00:07:58,172 --> 00:08:00,792 has a disturbing record of locking up the wrong people 127 00:08:00,793 --> 00:08:02,243 in murder cases. 128 00:08:04,517 --> 00:08:05,448 -This is what they do! 129 00:08:05,449 --> 00:08:06,826 -This is what they do to us! 130 00:08:06,827 --> 00:08:07,957 -What they tried to do to us! 131 00:08:10,517 --> 00:08:12,240 Wayne and Paul Darvell, 132 00:08:12,241 --> 00:08:14,895 free men after seven long years in custody 133 00:08:14,896 --> 00:08:16,792 for a murder they didn't commit. 134 00:08:16,793 --> 00:08:18,274 -Have you got anything to say about 135 00:08:18,275 --> 00:08:19,688 the police officers who actually stitched you up? 136 00:08:19,689 --> 00:08:20,757 -No comment, no. 137 00:08:20,758 --> 00:08:22,205 No comment. 138 00:08:22,206 --> 00:08:25,067 -I'm delighted to be freed by the Court of Appeal. 139 00:08:25,068 --> 00:08:27,033 I'm delighted to have been cleared. 140 00:08:27,034 --> 00:08:28,624 It's taken an awful long time. 141 00:08:28,625 --> 00:08:31,343 -I want to be with my kids and my husband. 142 00:08:31,344 --> 00:08:32,619 With my family. 143 00:08:32,620 --> 00:08:34,343 They got too much previous 144 00:08:34,344 --> 00:08:35,624 for getting things wrong, 145 00:08:37,620 --> 00:08:38,964 But not just getting things wrong, 146 00:08:38,965 --> 00:08:41,475 getting things deliberately wrong, you know? 147 00:08:47,862 --> 00:08:50,205 Okay, thanks. 148 00:08:50,206 --> 00:08:51,447 How confident are you 149 00:08:51,448 --> 00:08:52,654 that Dave Morris is the Clydach murderer? 150 00:08:52,655 --> 00:08:53,545 -Hundred percent. 151 00:08:54,931 --> 00:08:56,380 I have no doubt at all 152 00:08:56,381 --> 00:08:57,759 that David Morris is the killer. 153 00:08:57,760 --> 00:08:58,588 No doubt at all. 154 00:09:03,862 --> 00:09:06,171 A forensic review is to be carried out 155 00:09:06,172 --> 00:09:08,240 on the evidence which helped convict 156 00:09:08,241 --> 00:09:10,171 a Swansea Valley man for the murders 157 00:09:11,379 --> 00:09:13,102 of three generations of the same family. 158 00:09:13,103 --> 00:09:16,378 In October, "BBC Wales Investigates" raised new questions 159 00:09:16,379 --> 00:09:18,619 about the guilt of David Morris, 160 00:09:18,620 --> 00:09:20,309 who was jailed in 2006. 161 00:09:20,310 --> 00:09:22,033 We can't deny that there is a huge movement 162 00:09:22,034 --> 00:09:23,214 in support of Dai Morris. 163 00:09:23,215 --> 00:09:25,136 There's politicians coming forward 164 00:09:25,137 --> 00:09:26,378 saying this case needs to be looked at. 165 00:09:26,379 --> 00:09:29,240 Why do you think that he has this support? 166 00:09:29,241 --> 00:09:30,861 -This case has been looked at 167 00:09:30,862 --> 00:09:33,102 and looked at and looked at and explored. 168 00:09:34,275 --> 00:09:37,792 I'm puzzled as to why people can't see Morris 169 00:09:37,793 --> 00:09:39,516 for what he is. 170 00:09:39,517 --> 00:09:40,619 We're putting to you, David, 171 00:09:40,620 --> 00:09:42,070 what witness statements are saying. 172 00:09:43,793 --> 00:09:45,523 David, it's not as though it's going out from here. 173 00:09:45,524 --> 00:09:46,930 -No, I... 174 00:09:46,931 --> 00:09:48,447 Those statements have come back... 175 00:09:48,448 --> 00:09:49,241 -I understand that, but I can't understand why you, 176 00:09:49,242 --> 00:09:50,688 I can't understand, 177 00:09:50,689 --> 00:09:52,447 I honestly can't understand why this is happening. 178 00:09:52,448 --> 00:09:53,278 I... 179 00:09:56,310 --> 00:09:57,723 I can't. 180 00:09:57,724 --> 00:09:59,864 I honestly can't understand why it's happening. 181 00:10:03,586 --> 00:10:06,964 -Can you imagine anybody ever saying, 182 00:10:06,965 --> 00:10:09,861 "I'm the monster that's done this?" 183 00:10:09,862 --> 00:10:11,274 That's never gonna happen. 184 00:10:11,275 --> 00:10:13,481 What does this say about them as a person, 185 00:10:13,482 --> 00:10:15,172 if they make these admissions? 186 00:10:16,758 --> 00:10:18,619 That concludes this interview. 187 00:10:18,620 --> 00:10:19,900 Is there anything you wish to add 188 00:10:19,901 --> 00:10:21,447 or anything you would like to say? 189 00:10:21,448 --> 00:10:24,205 This is the last time we will be speaking to you. 190 00:10:24,206 --> 00:10:25,999 -Er, yeah, I... 191 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:26,862 I haven't done anything. 192 00:10:26,863 --> 00:10:28,343 I admit I lied, 193 00:10:28,344 --> 00:10:31,274 but I am not responsible for any murders. 194 00:10:31,275 --> 00:10:32,826 Okay. 195 00:10:32,827 --> 00:10:37,167 The time is now 5:39 p.m. and we're stopping the recording. 196 00:10:40,137 --> 00:10:42,167 -This case will never go away. 197 00:10:44,931 --> 00:10:46,341 Certainly not in Clydach. 198 00:10:52,862 --> 00:10:55,102 There's lots of rumors and innuendos. 199 00:10:56,689 --> 00:10:58,759 Everybody wants to be an armchair detective, 200 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:00,238 but they don't know the facts. 201 00:11:02,344 --> 00:11:06,999 It's something which is almost beyond belief, 202 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,000 the actual true story of this case. 203 00:11:31,724 --> 00:11:32,999 Wales have opened 204 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:34,520 the New Millennium Stadium in Cardiff 205 00:11:34,521 --> 00:11:36,927 with an historic win over the world champion, South Africa. 206 00:11:39,413 --> 00:11:42,723 Their 29-19 victory overshadowed problems at the turnstiles, 207 00:11:42,724 --> 00:11:45,144 which caused an 18 minute delay to the start. 208 00:12:04,275 --> 00:12:05,412 This crucial second try 209 00:12:05,413 --> 00:12:06,930 from Gareth Thomas. 210 00:12:06,931 --> 00:12:09,550 Sensing that rugby history was being made, 211 00:12:09,551 --> 00:12:10,792 the bulldozer tackling and... 212 00:12:10,793 --> 00:12:14,757 I was up late that night, sewing. 213 00:12:14,758 --> 00:12:17,518 It was a very close night, very, very warm. 214 00:12:24,448 --> 00:12:26,102 Shall I put your tea away, then, Rosemary? 215 00:12:26,103 --> 00:12:28,067 With pleasure. 216 00:12:28,068 --> 00:12:28,928 Thank you. 217 00:12:30,310 --> 00:12:31,723 When you look across the road, Rosemary, 218 00:12:31,724 --> 00:12:33,483 when you see the awful site of that house. 219 00:12:33,484 --> 00:12:34,412 -Doesn't worry me. 220 00:12:35,448 --> 00:12:36,858 It does not worry me at all. 221 00:12:38,275 --> 00:12:41,481 What worries me is what happened inside the house. 222 00:12:41,482 --> 00:12:43,033 Do you think you'll all be able to... 223 00:12:43,034 --> 00:12:44,102 -No. 224 00:12:44,103 --> 00:12:45,412 No. 225 00:12:45,413 --> 00:12:46,861 Get on about... 226 00:12:46,862 --> 00:12:48,242 -You can say your prayers as much as you like, 227 00:12:48,243 --> 00:12:51,136 but it isn't, er, it just won't go away. 228 00:12:51,137 --> 00:12:52,407 It's not going to go away. 229 00:12:56,344 --> 00:12:58,554 So, what happened next, then? 230 00:13:03,241 --> 00:13:05,171 -I went to bed at quarter to one. 231 00:13:06,931 --> 00:13:11,654 And I noticed across the road, there was no light 232 00:13:11,655 --> 00:13:13,925 in Mandy's house and very, very dark. 233 00:13:17,379 --> 00:13:18,449 Very, very dark. 234 00:13:22,103 --> 00:13:25,723 I woke when I heard a vehicle coming across the road 235 00:13:25,724 --> 00:13:27,664 and it sounded like diesel. 236 00:13:28,827 --> 00:13:30,930 And it stopped outside and I thought, 237 00:13:30,931 --> 00:13:32,451 "Who on earth is that?" 238 00:13:38,310 --> 00:13:41,030 And I thought, "Oh, somebody's going into Mandy's." 239 00:13:43,758 --> 00:13:45,207 And with that, the door opened. 240 00:13:45,208 --> 00:13:47,686 I know it was pitch dark, but I could slightly hear it. 241 00:13:50,551 --> 00:13:52,481 And with that, the light came on. 242 00:14:02,931 --> 00:14:06,274 At that point, I thought it was Mandy. 243 00:14:06,275 --> 00:14:08,826 But knowing now it wasn't, 244 00:14:08,827 --> 00:14:13,067 because she got home at ten to 12 with the children. 245 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:19,999 Who do you think that person was? 246 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:21,170 -I really don't know. 247 00:14:24,896 --> 00:14:26,826 But whoever came back that time, 248 00:14:28,758 --> 00:14:30,138 must have come back 249 00:14:32,103 --> 00:14:34,073 to set the house on fire. 250 00:14:43,482 --> 00:14:45,240 Hello? 251 00:14:45,241 --> 00:14:46,447 Oh, hello. 252 00:14:46,448 --> 00:14:48,448 We've got a call now to a house fire 253 00:14:51,172 --> 00:14:55,481 at Kelvin Road, Clydach. 254 00:14:55,482 --> 00:14:57,240 What have we got? 255 00:14:57,241 --> 00:14:59,550 It's a possible persons reported. 256 00:14:59,551 --> 00:15:01,971 I don't know how many casualties are involved, 257 00:15:03,103 --> 00:15:05,593 but it sounds a serious situation. 258 00:15:14,724 --> 00:15:16,516 As we pulled into the street, 259 00:15:16,517 --> 00:15:18,927 neighbors confirmed there was a family in there. 260 00:15:23,551 --> 00:15:24,971 We entered the ground floor. 261 00:15:26,724 --> 00:15:28,794 We had a substantial fire in the kitchen. 262 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,964 -They went in to sort the fire out. 263 00:15:35,965 --> 00:15:39,205 That's when I went upstairs to do a search. 264 00:15:39,206 --> 00:15:41,926 We were hoping there'd have been a rescue, but, er, 265 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:45,070 things didn't work out 266 00:15:47,068 --> 00:15:49,168 as they were supposed to. 267 00:15:57,482 --> 00:15:59,032 About halfway up the stairs, 268 00:16:00,724 --> 00:16:03,004 the visibility was hardly anything. 269 00:16:07,517 --> 00:16:08,447 Just black. 270 00:16:08,448 --> 00:16:09,377 You could not see nothing. 271 00:16:12,931 --> 00:16:14,311 It's just all by feel. 272 00:16:18,551 --> 00:16:21,930 My knees were on the top last step 273 00:16:21,931 --> 00:16:23,411 before going onto the landing. 274 00:16:26,172 --> 00:16:27,312 My face was down low. 275 00:16:34,172 --> 00:16:36,930 I'd done a sweep with my hands. 276 00:16:36,931 --> 00:16:38,311 I found one of the children. 277 00:16:41,586 --> 00:16:42,926 Done another sweep again. 278 00:16:44,758 --> 00:16:45,998 Found the other child. 279 00:16:49,413 --> 00:16:52,999 I put my knees just onto the landing. 280 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:54,170 I done another sweep. 281 00:16:55,724 --> 00:16:57,314 And that's where I found Mandy. 282 00:17:04,827 --> 00:17:06,516 -We tried our best to bring anyone back, 283 00:17:06,517 --> 00:17:09,027 but they were all gone before we got there. 284 00:17:11,482 --> 00:17:13,450 I believe it was the youngest child, Emily, 285 00:17:13,451 --> 00:17:14,548 that was handed to me. 286 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:21,690 The back of her head was badly damaged. 287 00:17:23,758 --> 00:17:24,968 Erm, yeah, so... 288 00:17:26,103 --> 00:17:29,033 There was no doubt in my mind that erm, 289 00:17:29,034 --> 00:17:31,067 she'd not died in that fire 290 00:17:31,068 --> 00:17:32,718 and been the victim of something. 291 00:17:37,689 --> 00:17:40,789 -By this time now the smoke is starting to clear. 292 00:17:45,413 --> 00:17:48,593 And then we found Doris in bed, 293 00:17:50,068 --> 00:17:51,968 laying there with 294 00:17:53,241 --> 00:17:55,311 a big cut down her face. 295 00:18:03,931 --> 00:18:05,831 Something very evil happened in there. 296 00:18:08,758 --> 00:18:11,412 The injuries they'd done to those two kids, 297 00:18:11,413 --> 00:18:12,863 Mandy, and Doris, 298 00:18:14,724 --> 00:18:17,378 I wouldn't call him a person myself. 299 00:18:17,379 --> 00:18:18,209 An animal. 300 00:18:22,034 --> 00:18:23,384 It's ridiculous. 301 00:18:25,896 --> 00:18:27,716 Absolutely ridiculous. 302 00:18:53,517 --> 00:18:56,102 A crowd had gathered outside the property. 303 00:18:56,103 --> 00:18:59,136 A lot of neighbors were out on the street. 304 00:18:59,137 --> 00:19:03,654 We're now turning in to Kelvin Road. 305 00:19:03,655 --> 00:19:05,305 There's very few police there. 306 00:19:08,034 --> 00:19:09,314 In back of Kelvin Road. 307 00:19:10,724 --> 00:19:12,904 And at the time did that strike you as odd? 308 00:19:12,905 --> 00:19:14,757 -Yeah, certainly, I mean, 309 00:19:14,758 --> 00:19:16,585 you know, I'd expect to see, you know, 310 00:19:16,586 --> 00:19:17,930 we have a car fire, we normally have 311 00:19:17,931 --> 00:19:19,451 three police cars turn up 312 00:19:19,452 --> 00:19:21,858 so I was surprised it wasn't more. 313 00:19:27,275 --> 00:19:29,515 There was one senior officer there. 314 00:19:31,620 --> 00:19:34,723 My commanding officer went up to that police officer 315 00:19:34,724 --> 00:19:37,102 and made the statement that this was not 316 00:19:37,103 --> 00:19:38,933 a normal, standard house fire. 317 00:19:40,206 --> 00:19:42,206 And there was a likelihood of foul play. 318 00:20:08,068 --> 00:20:11,240 -The message that I got, it was a fatal house fire 319 00:20:11,241 --> 00:20:12,964 involving four people 320 00:20:12,965 --> 00:20:15,755 and they thought it might have been an electrical fault. 321 00:20:24,931 --> 00:20:26,380 When I got to the scene, 322 00:20:26,381 --> 00:20:28,859 three of the bodies had been taken out of the house 323 00:20:30,965 --> 00:20:32,654 and it was quite clear when looking at them, 324 00:20:32,655 --> 00:20:35,375 they'd all suffered a dreadful death. 325 00:20:41,758 --> 00:20:44,861 This clearly wasn't a fatal house fire. 326 00:20:44,862 --> 00:20:47,832 It was a homicide where four people been murdered 327 00:20:50,931 --> 00:20:54,211 and the killer had tried to cover their tracks 328 00:20:55,862 --> 00:20:57,552 by setting fire to the house. 329 00:21:02,413 --> 00:21:03,693 -The house, which was once 330 00:21:03,694 --> 00:21:05,585 the center of a happy family life 331 00:21:05,586 --> 00:21:07,274 is now the scene of one of the biggest 332 00:21:07,275 --> 00:21:10,095 murder investigations ever launched in Wales. 333 00:21:11,241 --> 00:21:13,621 80 year old Doris Dawson had been living here 334 00:21:13,622 --> 00:21:15,240 for the past 18 months 335 00:21:15,241 --> 00:21:18,688 with her 34 year old divorced daughter, Mandy Power, 336 00:21:18,689 --> 00:21:22,343 who is said to be a devoted mother to her two daughters, 337 00:21:22,344 --> 00:21:25,074 Katie, who was 10 and 8 year old Emily. 338 00:21:28,137 --> 00:21:30,826 As detectives continue their painstaking search 339 00:21:30,827 --> 00:21:32,309 of the crime scene, 340 00:21:32,310 --> 00:21:34,481 prayers are being said for the children, their mother, 341 00:21:34,482 --> 00:21:36,550 and grandmother within the community 342 00:21:36,551 --> 00:21:38,451 of which they were so much a part. 343 00:21:39,827 --> 00:21:41,097 -Beyond belief, isn't it? 344 00:21:42,413 --> 00:21:45,343 I attend church every Sunday and 345 00:21:45,344 --> 00:21:47,274 it certainly knocks your faith, really, doesn't it, 346 00:21:47,275 --> 00:21:48,925 when something like this happens. 347 00:21:50,655 --> 00:21:51,895 -They were wonderful. 348 00:21:51,896 --> 00:21:53,930 Mandy, she was such a dedicated mum. 349 00:21:53,931 --> 00:21:54,901 And the girls... 350 00:21:54,902 --> 00:21:56,757 They were beautiful. 351 00:21:56,758 --> 00:21:58,792 And they were really starting to grow up. 352 00:21:58,793 --> 00:22:00,313 It's an awful thing to happen. 353 00:22:06,793 --> 00:22:09,205 The person had come to the house, 354 00:22:09,206 --> 00:22:10,996 wasn't prepared to kill the family. 355 00:22:14,068 --> 00:22:16,585 This is the front entrance door 356 00:22:16,586 --> 00:22:18,896 on number 9, Kelvin Road, Clydach. 357 00:22:23,448 --> 00:22:26,308 There was no sign of forced entry to the house. 358 00:22:30,827 --> 00:22:33,547 We're now entering the hallway of the premises. 359 00:22:38,206 --> 00:22:39,654 The killer didn't bring a murder weapon 360 00:22:39,655 --> 00:22:40,515 to the scene. 361 00:22:43,172 --> 00:22:45,654 We are now viewing the stairs of premises, 362 00:22:45,655 --> 00:22:48,585 which is to the right of the entrance door. 363 00:22:55,448 --> 00:22:57,238 -But lying on top of the landing 364 00:22:58,896 --> 00:23:00,336 was a fiberglass pole, 365 00:23:02,620 --> 00:23:05,964 which was about a meter and a half in length, 366 00:23:05,965 --> 00:23:08,205 2.2 kilos in weight. 367 00:23:10,275 --> 00:23:12,964 It had been left in the house by the former occupier 368 00:23:12,965 --> 00:23:14,855 and the children used to play with it. 369 00:23:18,724 --> 00:23:23,724 The killer had used a sock on their hands as a glove. 370 00:23:29,793 --> 00:23:33,793 Then the killer used this fiberglass pole to attack Mandy. 371 00:23:37,517 --> 00:23:39,930 Now as a result of killing Mandy, 372 00:23:39,931 --> 00:23:41,341 all four had to be murdered. 373 00:23:44,724 --> 00:23:48,964 We are now viewing into the front bedroom, 374 00:23:48,965 --> 00:23:50,855 which is a children's bedroom. 375 00:23:53,965 --> 00:23:55,855 -They'd been hit multiple times. 376 00:23:57,344 --> 00:24:00,723 A defenseless eight year old girl, a 10 year old girl, 377 00:24:00,724 --> 00:24:03,930 a 34 year old mother and an 80 year old woman, 378 00:24:03,931 --> 00:24:05,378 who was dying. 379 00:24:05,379 --> 00:24:08,139 Doris only had months to live, she was extremely ill. 380 00:24:08,140 --> 00:24:11,237 So who could commit this dreadful crime to these people? 381 00:24:13,241 --> 00:24:15,931 We're now moving into the mother's bedroom. 382 00:24:19,448 --> 00:24:21,548 -Emily would've screamed that house down. 383 00:24:24,586 --> 00:24:27,066 That's why I can't understand how nobody heard. 384 00:24:30,793 --> 00:24:32,593 Mandy, all the kids. 385 00:24:37,827 --> 00:24:39,377 It had to be someone they knew. 386 00:24:49,448 --> 00:24:53,999 Okay, this is a taped interview with Louise Pugh. 387 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,619 I'm Detective Constable 3199, Simon Evans. 388 00:24:57,620 --> 00:24:58,861 Louise is here. 389 00:24:58,862 --> 00:25:00,412 Louise, can you just identify for the tape? 390 00:25:00,413 --> 00:25:03,033 Louise Anne Pugh, date of birth 03/05/83. 391 00:25:03,034 --> 00:25:05,136 And her mother is also with us. 392 00:25:05,137 --> 00:25:06,826 I'm Christina Pugh. 393 00:25:06,827 --> 00:25:07,657 Thanks. 394 00:25:12,965 --> 00:25:16,136 -My mother rented the house next door to Mandy's 395 00:25:16,137 --> 00:25:17,067 on Kelvin Road. 396 00:25:28,034 --> 00:25:30,999 I thought of them as family, not just, 397 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,210 "Well, they're my next door neighbors," you know? 398 00:25:42,344 --> 00:25:44,136 I always used to run to her house 399 00:25:44,137 --> 00:25:45,688 whenever my mother shouted at me. 400 00:25:45,689 --> 00:25:48,274 This was after my dad left. 401 00:25:48,275 --> 00:25:49,095 Erm... 402 00:25:50,724 --> 00:25:53,067 I used to go upstairs, go in my drawers, 403 00:25:53,068 --> 00:25:55,826 get my knickers and vests, put them under my arm, 404 00:25:55,827 --> 00:25:58,997 and I'd walk down the road to Mandy's and Doris's. 405 00:26:01,620 --> 00:26:04,000 They just were a lovely little family, you know? 406 00:26:13,241 --> 00:26:16,341 When the police showed up to speak to me, 407 00:26:17,482 --> 00:26:19,832 they wanted me to go into detail about Mandy. 408 00:26:21,310 --> 00:26:22,654 How would you describe Mandy 409 00:26:22,655 --> 00:26:24,861 to someone who's never known her before? 410 00:26:24,862 --> 00:26:26,688 Off her head. 411 00:26:26,689 --> 00:26:28,516 Very impulsive, as well, but, no, 412 00:26:28,517 --> 00:26:30,307 she's a lovely person, you know. 413 00:26:34,172 --> 00:26:35,792 She always had time for people. 414 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,690 She'd be the life and soul of the party, like. 415 00:26:48,931 --> 00:26:50,999 She was, she was just... 416 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:52,690 She was up to this mood, she was. 417 00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:58,760 She was very family orientated. 418 00:27:01,379 --> 00:27:02,549 And she loved her kids. 419 00:27:12,896 --> 00:27:15,476 When Mandy's marriage broke down, 420 00:27:17,344 --> 00:27:19,074 there was a time where she was low. 421 00:27:21,275 --> 00:27:23,995 After she sort of came out of her down period then, 422 00:27:25,103 --> 00:27:26,453 she seemed to want 423 00:27:27,620 --> 00:27:29,720 more enjoyment out of life. 424 00:27:34,413 --> 00:27:36,413 She did attract a lot of attention. 425 00:27:42,586 --> 00:27:45,236 -I felt that the main victim was Mandy. 426 00:27:46,793 --> 00:27:49,033 That the answer lay somewhere with Mandy. 427 00:27:55,034 --> 00:27:59,004 After the murders, the killer strips her naked, 428 00:28:00,931 --> 00:28:02,551 then puts a vibrator inside her. 429 00:28:04,586 --> 00:28:08,406 And, lying on the carpet was a gold chain, 430 00:28:11,689 --> 00:28:14,309 soaked in blood where she'd been murdered. 431 00:28:20,517 --> 00:28:22,723 There were no financial worries. 432 00:28:22,724 --> 00:28:24,930 She was not involved in drugs. 433 00:28:24,931 --> 00:28:27,412 She was not involved in any criminality. 434 00:28:27,413 --> 00:28:31,213 In in fact, she was a very happy, friendly, 435 00:28:32,344 --> 00:28:33,864 likable individual. 436 00:28:36,344 --> 00:28:38,314 Why would somebody want to kill Mandy? 437 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:42,309 -Mandy didn't use men. 438 00:28:42,310 --> 00:28:44,620 She just wanted to feel that love back. 439 00:28:47,206 --> 00:28:48,096 But she was 440 00:28:50,448 --> 00:28:52,478 looking for love in the wrong places. 441 00:28:55,413 --> 00:28:58,171 I think Mandy played around 442 00:28:58,172 --> 00:28:59,902 with two different lives. 443 00:29:01,896 --> 00:29:04,166 And then one caught up with her. 444 00:29:17,413 --> 00:29:18,932 -The Swansea Valley community, 445 00:29:18,933 --> 00:29:21,171 where three generations of the same family 446 00:29:21,172 --> 00:29:23,205 were brutally murdered at the weekend 447 00:29:23,206 --> 00:29:25,378 is trying to come to terms with the full horror 448 00:29:25,379 --> 00:29:26,861 of their deaths. 449 00:29:26,862 --> 00:29:28,830 Two children, their mother, and disabled grandmother 450 00:29:28,831 --> 00:29:30,619 were attacked at their home in Clydach, 451 00:29:30,620 --> 00:29:33,757 before the killer started fires to conceal the crime. 452 00:29:33,758 --> 00:29:36,240 Here's our chief reporter, Penny Roberts. 453 00:29:36,241 --> 00:29:39,001 -Jamie, well, the investigation has been intensified, 454 00:29:39,002 --> 00:29:40,550 as you might expect. 455 00:29:40,551 --> 00:29:44,067 Very little to report on the details of that investigation. 456 00:29:44,068 --> 00:29:46,723 I'll certainly know more in half an hour's time. 457 00:29:46,724 --> 00:29:47,794 I'll be attending a news conference at 458 00:29:47,795 --> 00:29:49,274 Cockett police station, 459 00:29:49,275 --> 00:29:51,619 which has been called by the man leading the hunt. 460 00:29:51,620 --> 00:29:54,619 What I can tell you is that the forensic effort here... 461 00:29:54,620 --> 00:29:56,136 I think on the Sunday, 462 00:29:56,137 --> 00:29:59,587 when we discovered that there'd been a fire in Kelvin Road, 463 00:30:01,275 --> 00:30:05,067 I think I felt it was very tragic, 464 00:30:05,068 --> 00:30:08,447 but a routine job, if I can describe it as that. 465 00:30:08,448 --> 00:30:09,723 By the Monday morning, 466 00:30:09,724 --> 00:30:12,378 I realized that I was dealing with something 467 00:30:12,379 --> 00:30:14,067 very, very different. 468 00:30:14,068 --> 00:30:17,723 And as time went on, er, you know, it was, 469 00:30:17,724 --> 00:30:20,688 it was clear that it was a story that 470 00:30:20,689 --> 00:30:23,069 I have never dealt with the like of before 471 00:30:24,655 --> 00:30:27,135 and hopefully would never have to deal with again. 472 00:30:39,448 --> 00:30:42,308 That first press conference was extraordinary. 473 00:30:50,551 --> 00:30:52,971 I remember Martyn Lloyd-Evans walking in and 474 00:30:54,137 --> 00:30:57,240 he looked as if he had the weight of the world 475 00:30:57,241 --> 00:30:58,516 on his shoulders. 476 00:30:58,517 --> 00:30:59,792 I mean, he had to find the killer. 477 00:30:59,793 --> 00:31:02,693 And I think the pressure was on. 478 00:31:04,655 --> 00:31:09,655 -It's quite clear from the injuries sustained by Mandy, 479 00:31:11,068 --> 00:31:15,068 that she's been subject to a very physical assault. 480 00:31:19,931 --> 00:31:22,691 There's also signs that she's been sexually assaulted. 481 00:31:25,034 --> 00:31:29,484 -And it became clear during that press conference that 482 00:31:31,482 --> 00:31:33,932 Mandy's life wasn't particularly straightforward. 483 00:31:35,344 --> 00:31:38,004 -We know Mandy, that was a, was a devoted mother, 484 00:31:38,005 --> 00:31:41,619 had two children, committed to her family, 485 00:31:41,620 --> 00:31:46,030 was a lively, bubbly individual, and so full of life. 486 00:31:47,275 --> 00:31:49,999 Since separating from her husband, 487 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:54,970 we know that she has had both male and female relationships. 488 00:32:07,482 --> 00:32:09,274 -Later on that day, 489 00:32:09,275 --> 00:32:11,715 there was quite a crowd outside the house. 490 00:32:14,724 --> 00:32:18,034 And the gossip at this point was about Mandy's private life. 491 00:32:22,206 --> 00:32:25,619 I remember one woman, who I later found out 492 00:32:25,620 --> 00:32:28,830 was in a gay relationship. 493 00:32:30,275 --> 00:32:33,688 Her partner was with her and they were talking to me. 494 00:32:33,689 --> 00:32:36,447 -The last few months in her life, she said 495 00:32:36,448 --> 00:32:38,102 she's never been so happy. 496 00:32:38,103 --> 00:32:41,274 So I can't understand what has happened to her. 497 00:32:41,275 --> 00:32:43,895 I know she'd had a friend and as I said, it's... 498 00:32:43,896 --> 00:32:45,826 -They were local taxi drivers 499 00:32:47,344 --> 00:32:49,764 and they said, erm, 500 00:32:50,931 --> 00:32:52,901 "Ask the police about Alison Lewis." 501 00:32:57,517 --> 00:33:02,167 I found out that Mandy had been having an affair. 502 00:33:04,068 --> 00:33:09,068 A sexual relationship with Alison Lewis. 503 00:33:13,379 --> 00:33:14,339 -Come on, girls. 504 00:33:22,137 --> 00:33:23,407 Let's have a run, let's have a go! 505 00:33:25,931 --> 00:33:28,171 She was very strong 506 00:33:28,172 --> 00:33:30,999 and she was good at sports, very good at sports. 507 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:31,827 Well played! 508 00:33:31,828 --> 00:33:33,205 Go for it, Al! 509 00:33:33,206 --> 00:33:34,999 Well done, Alison! 510 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:36,100 Go for it! 511 00:33:38,655 --> 00:33:39,930 -Just take that last ball. 512 00:33:39,931 --> 00:33:41,521 Sheryl's probably the best passer here. 513 00:33:41,522 --> 00:33:43,267 Crash ball number one. 514 00:33:45,379 --> 00:33:47,550 She was a capped rugby player. 515 00:33:47,551 --> 00:33:49,071 She played for Wales. 516 00:33:54,931 --> 00:33:56,311 Good fall, fullback! 517 00:33:58,241 --> 00:34:01,481 -And then we found out that 518 00:34:01,482 --> 00:34:03,482 Alison used to be a police officer. 519 00:34:11,344 --> 00:34:14,694 I realized then that 520 00:34:16,137 --> 00:34:18,447 nothing was going to be very straightforward in Clydach. 521 00:34:39,379 --> 00:34:42,029 Just taking you back to the morning after. 522 00:34:46,034 --> 00:34:48,619 Do you remember seeing Alison that morning? 523 00:34:48,620 --> 00:34:51,310 Did you notice her on Kelvin Road? 524 00:34:55,586 --> 00:34:58,476 -I remember making tea for the fire brigade. 525 00:35:01,482 --> 00:35:02,452 I took it out on a tray. 526 00:35:05,413 --> 00:35:08,999 Then I went over to see to another neighbor, 527 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,481 living two doors away. 528 00:35:11,482 --> 00:35:14,792 And we were always very, very friendly with Mandy. 529 00:35:14,793 --> 00:35:18,102 And with this, Alison Lewis came from 530 00:35:18,103 --> 00:35:22,033 the left-hand side of the road, which means the garden side. 531 00:35:23,793 --> 00:35:28,793 And she had wet hair, rosy cheeks, and she had, 532 00:35:30,206 --> 00:35:34,033 if I'm right, she had green shorts and a green top on. 533 00:35:34,034 --> 00:35:35,343 And so when you saw Alison... 534 00:35:35,344 --> 00:35:36,274 -Yes. 535 00:35:36,275 --> 00:35:37,235 She was freshly showered. 536 00:35:47,344 --> 00:35:49,074 Very briefly, someone somewhere must know 537 00:35:49,075 --> 00:35:50,550 something about this. 538 00:35:50,551 --> 00:35:52,519 -I'm quite sure that someone knows about this. 539 00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:54,343 There's no doubt that the attacker is, 540 00:35:54,344 --> 00:35:55,723 was heavily blood stained, 541 00:35:55,724 --> 00:35:57,447 has fled this scene sometime 542 00:35:57,448 --> 00:35:59,343 in the early hours of the morning. 543 00:35:59,344 --> 00:36:00,524 And I'm appealing for people, please, 544 00:36:00,525 --> 00:36:02,337 if you do know something, come forward. 545 00:36:09,310 --> 00:36:11,274 Right, you were at the house this morning 546 00:36:11,275 --> 00:36:14,585 and I know David was talking to you about, erm, 547 00:36:14,586 --> 00:36:15,688 the pole, you know? 548 00:36:15,689 --> 00:36:16,517 Yeah. 549 00:36:16,518 --> 00:36:17,757 That, erm, 550 00:36:17,758 --> 00:36:18,930 has been mentioned as being the murder weapon. 551 00:36:18,931 --> 00:36:19,757 Okay? 552 00:36:19,758 --> 00:36:20,585 Yeah. 553 00:36:20,586 --> 00:36:21,412 At the house. 554 00:36:21,413 --> 00:36:22,241 Okay? 555 00:36:22,242 --> 00:36:23,342 You gave a statement. 556 00:36:25,275 --> 00:36:28,925 -The police asked me, obviously, about the pole. 557 00:36:31,931 --> 00:36:34,101 I think it was just an off-cut of something. 558 00:36:35,655 --> 00:36:39,516 'Cause it wasn't, you know, used for anything in the house. 559 00:36:39,517 --> 00:36:43,205 But Emily liked to, you know, twirl it 560 00:36:43,206 --> 00:36:46,136 and spin it on the floor and you know, just 561 00:36:47,793 --> 00:36:48,903 being a kid, really. 562 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,309 You tell me what you remember about the pole and 563 00:36:53,310 --> 00:36:54,723 the day that you described when 564 00:36:54,724 --> 00:36:56,554 it was being swung around the house. 565 00:36:57,965 --> 00:36:59,826 It was all right outside. 566 00:36:59,827 --> 00:37:02,516 It wasn't raining, it wasn't sunny, it was just... 567 00:37:02,517 --> 00:37:05,792 You know, blue skies sort of thing. 568 00:37:05,793 --> 00:37:06,964 And, erm... 569 00:37:06,965 --> 00:37:09,205 I think it was a couple of weeks before 570 00:37:09,206 --> 00:37:11,619 and she was spinning it on the floor 571 00:37:11,620 --> 00:37:14,720 and it knocked Katie's ankle. 572 00:37:15,862 --> 00:37:17,242 And then she obviously had to say sorry, 573 00:37:17,243 --> 00:37:19,585 but Mandy got flustered and she said, just, 574 00:37:19,586 --> 00:37:20,930 she said, "Louise, just do me a favor." 575 00:37:20,931 --> 00:37:22,591 "Get it out of the bloody house." 576 00:37:26,137 --> 00:37:29,412 I went out the back, walked up the steps, 577 00:37:29,413 --> 00:37:30,553 turned to the shed, 578 00:37:31,931 --> 00:37:34,551 and there was a gap between the shed and the wall. 579 00:37:35,724 --> 00:37:38,904 So I slid the pole down the side of the shed. 580 00:37:43,310 --> 00:37:44,999 Was there anyone who saw you 581 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,170 put the pole in that place? 582 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:57,310 I put it down the side of the shed. 583 00:37:58,827 --> 00:38:01,857 But I put it down there 'cause they didn't like long grass. 584 00:38:05,793 --> 00:38:07,213 When I turned 'round, 585 00:38:12,931 --> 00:38:14,521 Alison was standing in the door. 586 00:38:19,344 --> 00:38:20,524 And was anybody else watching you 587 00:38:20,525 --> 00:38:22,550 at that point? 588 00:38:22,551 --> 00:38:23,381 -No. 589 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,790 That was the last time I saw her. 590 00:38:49,517 --> 00:38:50,723 In the town of Clydach today, 591 00:38:50,724 --> 00:38:52,831 there's considerable anger about revelations 592 00:38:52,832 --> 00:38:55,688 in the tabloid press about Mandy Power's private life 593 00:38:55,689 --> 00:38:57,619 and relationships. 594 00:38:57,620 --> 00:39:00,171 -I just think that all this is absolutely awful, really. 595 00:39:00,172 --> 00:39:01,895 I don't think there's any need of it at all. 596 00:39:01,896 --> 00:39:03,550 -Well, that's what the tabloids do, don't they? 597 00:39:03,551 --> 00:39:04,691 They destroy people. 598 00:39:05,965 --> 00:39:07,136 If they can't do it when they're alive, 599 00:39:07,137 --> 00:39:08,068 they can do it when they're dead. 600 00:39:08,069 --> 00:39:09,654 There's no one to protect them. 601 00:39:09,655 --> 00:39:12,516 34 Year old Mandy Power was sexually assaulted 602 00:39:12,517 --> 00:39:13,757 then bludgeoned to death... 603 00:39:13,758 --> 00:39:15,033 -There was a bit of a feeding frenzy 604 00:39:15,034 --> 00:39:17,974 as far as the tabloid press was concerned. 605 00:39:19,068 --> 00:39:22,102 We're talking about more than 20 years ago. 606 00:39:22,103 --> 00:39:25,243 And I think more than 20 years ago, erm, 607 00:39:26,413 --> 00:39:28,930 there was a different atmosphere as far as 608 00:39:28,931 --> 00:39:31,136 gay relationships went. 609 00:39:31,137 --> 00:39:34,343 It was still very noteworthy 610 00:39:34,344 --> 00:39:38,171 that a young, attractive divorcee 611 00:39:38,172 --> 00:39:41,895 who had two children was having an affair, 612 00:39:41,896 --> 00:39:46,102 a lesbian affair with a former policewoman. 613 00:39:46,103 --> 00:39:47,003 And, erm... 614 00:39:48,344 --> 00:39:50,826 A lot of people, including the journalists 615 00:39:50,827 --> 00:39:55,067 that were covering the case, were focused on Alison Lewis. 616 00:40:01,413 --> 00:40:03,516 She was hounded out. 617 00:40:03,517 --> 00:40:05,723 Everybody was pointing the finger at her. 618 00:40:05,724 --> 00:40:07,524 She was labeled a murderer. 619 00:40:09,103 --> 00:40:13,343 And I think she wanted to stand up for herself. 620 00:40:18,379 --> 00:40:19,861 How difficult is it to have people 621 00:40:19,862 --> 00:40:21,654 whispering behind your back all the time? 622 00:40:21,655 --> 00:40:23,447 -Terrible. 623 00:40:23,448 --> 00:40:24,278 Dreadful. 624 00:40:28,241 --> 00:40:30,661 It's almost unbearable at times. 625 00:40:32,379 --> 00:40:35,516 'Cause we're not talking about any crimes here. 626 00:40:35,517 --> 00:40:39,654 We're talking about horrendous violent crimes 627 00:40:39,655 --> 00:40:41,615 against four defenseless people. 628 00:40:42,827 --> 00:40:44,587 And anybody looking at this case 629 00:40:44,588 --> 00:40:47,447 who didn't know the people who died, 630 00:40:47,448 --> 00:40:48,998 you know, would be shocked 631 00:40:50,724 --> 00:40:52,723 by what they went through. 632 00:40:52,724 --> 00:40:56,861 And how can anybody say that they can live with the fact 633 00:40:56,862 --> 00:40:59,136 that somebody may look at you 634 00:40:59,137 --> 00:41:00,930 and think, "Well, did she do it?" 635 00:41:00,931 --> 00:41:01,862 "Did she?" 636 00:41:01,863 --> 00:41:03,103 "Was she capable of doing that?" 637 00:41:04,275 --> 00:41:07,205 It's, on times it's almost unbearable. 638 00:41:08,379 --> 00:41:09,999 But the one thing that keeps me going 639 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:11,930 is that I know I didn't do it. 640 00:41:11,931 --> 00:41:14,205 I know that I would've done anything 641 00:41:14,206 --> 00:41:16,826 to have protected them that night. 642 00:41:16,827 --> 00:41:19,587 -I found her credible. 643 00:41:22,034 --> 00:41:23,999 She was crying. 644 00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:25,516 Erm... 645 00:41:25,517 --> 00:41:27,307 I thought she was either 646 00:41:28,344 --> 00:41:31,033 an Oscar winning actress 647 00:41:31,034 --> 00:41:34,482 or she was telling the truth. 648 00:41:34,483 --> 00:41:35,903 -There is no evidence to say 649 00:41:35,904 --> 00:41:37,856 that I am responsible for this. 650 00:41:39,068 --> 00:41:41,028 I would never have hurt any of them. 651 00:41:43,103 --> 00:41:45,003 My only guilt is that I didn't know 652 00:41:46,620 --> 00:41:49,480 they were fighting for their lives in Kelvin Road 653 00:41:50,896 --> 00:41:53,378 and I was at home in bed in Pontardawe. 654 00:41:53,379 --> 00:41:55,585 And that's my guilt. 655 00:41:55,586 --> 00:41:57,066 And that's what I live with. 656 00:42:16,862 --> 00:42:18,999 Can you remember when you first learned 657 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:20,620 about Mandy's relationship with Alison? 658 00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,139 -Well, Mandy started going to watch the rugby 659 00:42:27,140 --> 00:42:28,517 down at Vardre Rugby Club. 660 00:42:43,068 --> 00:42:45,338 She'd come back and they'd been on a night out 661 00:42:47,413 --> 00:42:48,793 and she's going, "Right", 662 00:42:50,620 --> 00:42:51,760 "I'm a lesbian." 663 00:42:54,068 --> 00:42:55,034 Say what? 664 00:42:55,035 --> 00:42:56,136 She said, "I'm a lesbian." 665 00:42:56,137 --> 00:42:57,277 I went, "No, you're not." 666 00:43:00,586 --> 00:43:02,033 So Katie went upstairs, 667 00:43:02,034 --> 00:43:04,999 this was before Mandy'd gone up there to tell Doris. 668 00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:08,136 And then all you could hear was Doris shouting down. 669 00:43:08,137 --> 00:43:09,412 "Do you wanna come up here" 670 00:43:09,413 --> 00:43:11,033 "and tell me what you've gotta say?" 671 00:43:11,034 --> 00:43:13,723 Katie'd been up and told her already. 672 00:43:13,724 --> 00:43:14,864 That was funny, though. 673 00:43:17,034 --> 00:43:19,454 Doris said to her then, "As long as you're happy," 674 00:43:19,455 --> 00:43:21,654 "that's all I want you is to be happy." 675 00:43:21,655 --> 00:43:23,102 Which was true. 676 00:43:23,103 --> 00:43:25,003 That's all she wanted for any of 'em, you know? 677 00:43:27,931 --> 00:43:29,551 Things took a change, then. 678 00:43:40,931 --> 00:43:43,861 The sort of rugby crowd would start coming to the house 679 00:43:43,862 --> 00:43:44,902 then and whatever. 680 00:43:47,931 --> 00:43:50,550 Alison would come down. 681 00:43:50,551 --> 00:43:53,071 She'd bring her children. 682 00:44:10,689 --> 00:44:15,689 Mandy was very much bubbly, outgoing. 683 00:44:19,310 --> 00:44:23,550 But even though Alison was, you know, 684 00:44:24,758 --> 00:44:28,378 a solid woman then, and she was well trained, 685 00:44:33,931 --> 00:44:36,071 she was much more reserved than Mandy. 686 00:44:43,758 --> 00:44:48,518 There was, like, obviously trust and jealousy issues, 687 00:44:49,724 --> 00:44:51,624 because obviously Mandy was very flirty. 688 00:44:53,206 --> 00:44:54,026 And, er... 689 00:44:55,517 --> 00:44:57,102 You know, especially if they'd go out 690 00:44:57,103 --> 00:44:58,693 in the Clydach village. 691 00:45:00,758 --> 00:45:04,518 Quite often, Mandy and Alison would come back and 692 00:45:06,620 --> 00:45:07,520 they'd argue. 693 00:45:11,241 --> 00:45:13,861 There was once, and there was an ornament 694 00:45:15,655 --> 00:45:18,826 and it got thrown and it, it hit the wall 695 00:45:18,827 --> 00:45:21,237 just by Mandy's head, so. 696 00:45:27,793 --> 00:45:30,213 I think she did care about Mandy, but 697 00:45:32,103 --> 00:45:33,483 she was just fragile. 698 00:45:34,655 --> 00:45:35,995 She had too much going on. 699 00:45:40,758 --> 00:45:44,098 I think it would've been okay if Alison wasn't married. 700 00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:51,000 Who was she married to? 701 00:45:52,828 --> 00:45:54,448 Stephen Lewis. 702 00:45:55,551 --> 00:45:56,761 He was a police officer. 703 00:45:59,310 --> 00:46:02,720 Did Stephen know about Alison's relationship 704 00:46:04,517 --> 00:46:05,407 with Mandy? 705 00:46:05,408 --> 00:46:07,408 - - - o O o - - - 706 00:46:07,409 --> 00:46:09,409 ---oOo--- 52174

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