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1
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- Jesus, I don't know.
2
00:00:46,463 --> 00:00:49,967
I'm trying to, you know, sum my life up.
3
00:00:49,967 --> 00:00:53,517
And I can't.. It's difficult to do that.
4
00:00:56,848 --> 00:00:58,600
I was frightened it
was going to be walking
5
00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:01,820
over old territory and
what you really wanted
6
00:01:01,812 --> 00:01:05,316
was something, remember
those confession programmes
7
00:01:05,315 --> 00:01:06,612
on television.
8
00:01:06,608 --> 00:01:09,532
John Freeman used to be the
man who interviewed people.
9
00:01:11,321 --> 00:01:13,790
And with the camera just
relentlessly on them,
10
00:01:13,782 --> 00:01:15,204
often in closeup.
11
00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:16,873
You waited for the tears to fall
12
00:01:16,868 --> 00:01:20,338
as the questions about their
mother were answered in sobs.
13
00:01:21,331 --> 00:01:23,174
He tried to break people down.
14
00:01:23,166 --> 00:01:26,386
And you saw the real
person behind the image.
15
00:01:26,378 --> 00:01:28,881
Well, I don't really have an image, do I?
16
00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:30,257
I'm an actor.
17
00:01:30,257 --> 00:01:31,258
Those are my images.
18
00:01:31,258 --> 00:01:34,728
And beyond that, I try to be myself.
19
00:01:35,762 --> 00:01:37,764
I am interviewed an awful lot.
20
00:01:37,764 --> 00:01:40,768
And I've learnt long ago to
edit myself as I go along.
21
00:01:41,893 --> 00:01:43,110
You're announced.
22
00:01:44,479 --> 00:01:49,701
Your public persona is briefly
described and on you walk.
23
00:01:52,154 --> 00:01:55,203
Now, do I walk on modestly,
do I walk on confidently,
24
00:01:55,198 --> 00:01:58,998
do I betray that I'm scared stiff
25
00:01:58,994 --> 00:02:00,871
because I don't know what the
questions are going to be?
26
00:02:00,871 --> 00:02:03,249
Very difficult just to be yourself.
27
00:02:05,626 --> 00:02:07,344
So I treat it as a bit of acting.
28
00:02:08,378 --> 00:02:09,846
Oh, here comes Ian McKellen.
29
00:02:16,178 --> 00:02:20,775
Now, what side of Ian McKellen
am I going to present?
30
00:02:27,731 --> 00:02:32,953
The idea that an actor is
discovered and their lives change,
31
00:02:34,863 --> 00:02:36,661
it might, but you're
not really aware of it.
32
00:02:36,657 --> 00:02:39,126
Then or afterwards.
33
00:02:40,577 --> 00:02:43,831
Your life is a series of
events, interconnected.
34
00:02:45,207 --> 00:02:50,429
I suppose the most crucial decision I made
35
00:02:50,671 --> 00:02:55,893
was deciding to try and
become a professional actor.
36
00:02:57,928 --> 00:03:00,807
Looking back at the point in
which I made that decision,
37
00:03:00,806 --> 00:03:05,232
which was toward the end of
my first year at university,
38
00:03:09,773 --> 00:03:12,617
it does look as if from an early age
39
00:03:12,609 --> 00:03:15,988
I had been preparing for
that moment, but I hadn't.
40
00:03:15,987 --> 00:03:18,331
But it looks like that.
41
00:03:18,323 --> 00:03:19,540
It makes sense.
42
00:03:20,492 --> 00:03:22,961
My love of theatre and my
sister's love of theatre
43
00:03:22,953 --> 00:03:25,547
came from my mother and father.
44
00:03:25,539 --> 00:03:27,883
And my mother did a little
bit of amateur acting.
45
00:03:27,874 --> 00:03:30,297
The first time I ever
appeared on any stage
46
00:03:30,293 --> 00:03:33,547
47
00:03:35,006 --> 00:03:38,351
If you're a boy and your sister's
five years older than you,
48
00:03:38,343 --> 00:03:43,349
that is a gap that's never
quite bridged, and never was.
49
00:03:43,348 --> 00:03:45,692
Jean's dead now.
50
00:03:45,684 --> 00:03:49,029
No, Jean was a member of a secret society.
51
00:03:49,020 --> 00:03:52,115
She organised with some girlfriends.
52
00:03:52,107 --> 00:03:53,734
And I think the second rule of which
53
00:03:53,734 --> 00:03:56,578
was Ian McKellen may not
belong to the society.
54
00:03:59,197 --> 00:04:00,574
Still rankles a bit, that.
55
00:04:03,034 --> 00:04:04,581
I was brought up in the
northwest of England
56
00:04:04,578 --> 00:04:06,672
in the little mining town of Wigan.
57
00:04:07,539 --> 00:04:09,291
(chattering)
58
00:04:09,291 --> 00:04:12,010
I liked nothing better
than going into town
59
00:04:12,002 --> 00:04:15,632
and just spending an hour
and a half looking at things.
60
00:04:15,630 --> 00:04:17,507
And there was a weekly market.
61
00:04:17,507 --> 00:04:20,852
Stalls were set up by people
just for the Saturday.
62
00:04:20,844 --> 00:04:24,064
And I would go with my sweet ration
63
00:04:24,055 --> 00:04:27,480
and just wander around
the stalls and watch.
64
00:04:27,476 --> 00:04:30,195
Each of them were selling their wares.
65
00:04:30,187 --> 00:04:32,235
They put on a little show, you see.
66
00:04:32,230 --> 00:04:35,825
Every sort of 20 minutes,
they did their pitch.
67
00:04:35,817 --> 00:04:38,866
A man selling hair restorer
wore a wig, I noticed.
68
00:04:39,905 --> 00:04:42,328
(chuckling)
69
00:04:43,533 --> 00:04:46,127
There was a man who sold
a polish for your tables.
70
00:04:47,579 --> 00:04:49,126
A little crowd would
gather around these people
71
00:04:49,122 --> 00:04:51,716
as they said their pitch.
72
00:04:52,876 --> 00:04:54,970
And sometimes I was called into help.
73
00:04:56,713 --> 00:04:57,930
You don't know me, son, do you?
74
00:04:57,923 --> 00:04:59,721
Never met me before, no answer.
75
00:04:59,716 --> 00:05:02,094
Yes, well here, even a kid can do this.
76
00:05:02,093 --> 00:05:04,187
And I'd put on the black polish for him.
77
00:05:05,597 --> 00:05:06,849
Performers, you see.
78
00:05:06,848 --> 00:05:08,725
Right up close to performers I was.
79
00:05:09,976 --> 00:05:12,479
The fair, that was very important.
80
00:05:13,313 --> 00:05:15,862
Fun fair arrived twice a year.
81
00:05:15,857 --> 00:05:19,111
Took over the main square in town.
82
00:05:19,110 --> 00:05:21,533
Set up all their rides.
83
00:05:21,530 --> 00:05:24,909
They ran the rides, there were
stalls that sold black peas,
84
00:05:24,908 --> 00:05:27,752
and it was Her Majesty's Smallest Subject.
85
00:05:30,664 --> 00:05:31,836
Wonderful marquee.
86
00:05:31,832 --> 00:05:33,755
A light landing on Anita.
87
00:05:35,418 --> 00:05:36,715
Who was inside the booth.
88
00:05:39,089 --> 00:05:40,386
And you paid threepence and you went on in
89
00:05:40,382 --> 00:05:43,431
and there was the smallest
woman I've ever seen.
90
00:05:44,845 --> 00:05:48,190
She was about that high.
91
00:05:48,181 --> 00:05:49,228
Smoking a cigarette.
92
00:05:51,017 --> 00:05:53,987
In a cigarette holder so
it wouldn't burn her skin.
93
00:05:53,979 --> 00:05:55,401
She had a little high voice.
94
00:05:55,397 --> 00:05:58,867
Move on, move on, go on, you've had enough.
95
00:05:58,859 --> 00:06:01,282
(chuckling)
96
00:06:01,278 --> 00:06:03,622
And the first smell I was attracted to
97
00:06:03,613 --> 00:06:08,585
were the greasy-haired
tight-trousered young men
98
00:06:08,577 --> 00:06:11,376
who were running the caterpillar
99
00:06:11,371 --> 00:06:14,341
and the big wheel and all that.
100
00:06:14,332 --> 00:06:15,208
Fair, very important.
101
00:06:15,208 --> 00:06:17,631
And I went around there on my own.
102
00:06:17,627 --> 00:06:21,757
This was only five minutes
from where we lived.
103
00:06:21,756 --> 00:06:23,178
So adventurous.
104
00:06:24,509 --> 00:06:27,388
When I was about eight, there
was a big event in Wigan.
105
00:06:27,387 --> 00:06:29,765
The town stopped because the king
106
00:06:29,764 --> 00:06:32,142
and queen were visiting us.
107
00:06:32,142 --> 00:06:33,485
Exciting.
108
00:06:33,476 --> 00:06:35,570
And I thought, "How do they do this?
109
00:06:37,772 --> 00:06:39,820
"They've got a light on in that car.
110
00:06:39,816 --> 00:06:41,068
"They're wearing makeup.
111
00:06:43,236 --> 00:06:45,330
"They've made this look very impressive.
112
00:06:45,322 --> 00:06:48,371
"This is our town, this
is where I go to school.
113
00:06:48,366 --> 00:06:49,663
"L cross this street every day.
114
00:06:49,659 --> 00:06:53,163
"And now, no traffic except that car."
115
00:06:53,163 --> 00:06:55,541
Someone's organised that, I thought.
116
00:06:57,667 --> 00:07:01,888
So, at a very early age I was
thinking how to put on a show.
117
00:07:02,756 --> 00:07:03,973
I don't know where it came from
118
00:07:03,965 --> 00:07:07,094
or what made me do it on the
particular day that I did.
119
00:07:07,093 --> 00:07:10,097
I went up and I painted
a little moustache here
120
00:07:10,096 --> 00:07:14,476
and mussed up my hair and found a hat
121
00:07:14,476 --> 00:07:16,729
and came down waddling
like Charlie Chaplin.
122
00:07:16,728 --> 00:07:17,854
And everyone laughed.
123
00:07:21,232 --> 00:07:23,860
I dressed up as Sir Thomas Beecham,
124
00:07:23,860 --> 00:07:27,990
who was a famous
classical music conductor.
125
00:07:27,989 --> 00:07:30,367
A bit of cotton wool for
his beard and moustache.
126
00:07:32,243 --> 00:07:33,790
Once, when I was about eight or nine,
127
00:07:33,787 --> 00:07:36,916
I went out into the street with
my clothes on back to front.
128
00:07:36,915 --> 00:07:38,667
Easy enough for the
jacket and the trousers
129
00:07:38,667 --> 00:07:41,637
and the shirt and tie
that tied at the back.
130
00:07:41,628 --> 00:07:43,380
Tricky with the shoes.
131
00:07:43,380 --> 00:07:45,474
You can't get the shoes
in the wrong direction.
132
00:07:45,465 --> 00:07:47,718
And I would go out in the street.
133
00:07:47,717 --> 00:07:50,140
Tried to fool people that I was...
134
00:07:51,388 --> 00:07:55,438
You see, I walked backwards to
appear to be walking forward.
135
00:07:57,978 --> 00:08:01,323
It's very, very intensely
human activity, acting.
136
00:08:01,314 --> 00:08:03,442
I had a different accent at school
137
00:08:03,441 --> 00:08:05,193
than the one I used at home to fit in.
138
00:08:05,193 --> 00:08:06,536
And I was acting.
139
00:08:07,404 --> 00:08:08,530
All the world's a stage
140
00:08:08,530 --> 00:08:10,828
and all the men and
women are merely players.
141
00:08:10,824 --> 00:08:12,451
They have their exits and their entrances.
142
00:08:12,450 --> 00:08:14,703
And one man, in his
time, plays many parts.
143
00:08:15,662 --> 00:08:20,884
Human beings, as opposed to
animals, act all day long.
144
00:08:21,251 --> 00:08:23,299
Select when they get up in
the morning what costume
145
00:08:23,294 --> 00:08:25,513
they will wear, what impact they want,
146
00:08:25,505 --> 00:08:28,725
what side of their
personality will be expressed.
147
00:08:28,717 --> 00:08:30,060
You're never just yourself.
148
00:08:30,051 --> 00:08:31,394
You're a part of yourself.
149
00:08:35,098 --> 00:08:37,977
My contemporaries would define themselves
150
00:08:37,976 --> 00:08:40,820
by their relationships with girls.
151
00:08:45,483 --> 00:08:47,235
I had this compensation that Ian
152
00:08:49,237 --> 00:08:52,912
was the lad who loved the theatre.
153
00:08:54,409 --> 00:08:56,457
That's what it felt like, I think,
154
00:08:56,453 --> 00:08:59,707
that when I woke up in
the morning (gasping)
155
00:08:59,706 --> 00:09:01,003
we're going to the theatre tonight.
156
00:09:00,999 --> 00:09:03,422
Oh, I'm going to rehearse a play today.
157
00:09:04,377 --> 00:09:06,129
That was sort of how I defined myself
158
00:09:06,129 --> 00:09:09,008
and what gave me real satisfaction.
159
00:09:10,592 --> 00:09:13,641
For my mother's birthday in 1948,
160
00:09:13,636 --> 00:09:16,435
the family went and
sat in the dress circle
161
00:09:16,431 --> 00:09:19,935
to see a new musical
written by Iva Lovello.
162
00:09:21,019 --> 00:09:23,818
He wrote very, very successful musicals
163
00:09:23,813 --> 00:09:26,191
in which he starred, although
he didn't sing himself.
164
00:09:26,191 --> 00:09:27,283
He played the piano.
165
00:09:30,820 --> 00:09:33,494
And when he lent over the side of a sofa
166
00:09:33,490 --> 00:09:36,539
and gave a glass of
champagne to the leading lady
167
00:09:36,534 --> 00:09:38,912
who was reclining on the couch,
168
00:09:38,912 --> 00:09:41,665
aged nine or so, I had an erection.
169
00:09:44,167 --> 00:09:48,388
I could quote David Hockney who said
170
00:09:48,379 --> 00:09:51,132
when he was about the same
age, he went to the cinema,
171
00:09:51,132 --> 00:09:53,476
and the man next to him
put his hand on his cock
172
00:09:53,468 --> 00:09:56,312
and David says, "I've loved
the cinema ever since."
173
00:09:57,430 --> 00:09:59,853
The same could be said
to me about the theatre.
174
00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:06,235
I suppose I felt I was
different, and that concerned me.
175
00:10:07,649 --> 00:10:10,198
And when it came to
sexuality, there was silence.
176
00:10:10,193 --> 00:10:12,195
I was blind, there was nothing to see,
177
00:10:12,195 --> 00:10:14,448
nothing to hear, nothing to feel.
178
00:10:15,657 --> 00:10:17,876
Making me feel, in a
sense, I didn't exist.
179
00:10:19,410 --> 00:10:20,411
- [Interviewer] Were you
conscious of the fact
180
00:10:20,411 --> 00:10:22,038
that it was illegal--
181
00:10:22,038 --> 00:10:22,914
- No.
182
00:10:23,998 --> 00:10:25,466
I just didn't think about it.
183
00:10:28,461 --> 00:10:30,714
It wasn't a problem, it was just a fact.
184
00:10:30,713 --> 00:10:32,135
And I (sighing)...
185
00:10:38,179 --> 00:10:42,434
It's strange, looking back,
when I meet 13 year old
186
00:10:42,433 --> 00:10:46,188
boys and girls who are pretty
certain about their sexuality,
187
00:10:46,187 --> 00:10:50,567
can even define it, put a
label on it, talk about it.
188
00:10:50,567 --> 00:10:51,944
It's another world.
189
00:10:52,861 --> 00:10:54,238
I suppose I was repressed.
190
00:10:54,237 --> 00:10:57,081
I suppose the fact that
it wasn't talked about
191
00:10:57,073 --> 00:11:00,623
and that I didn't talk
about it meant that I was
192
00:11:00,618 --> 00:11:04,839
not really developing
in a very healthy way.
193
00:11:04,831 --> 00:11:10,053
Probably one of the reasons
why I enjoyed acting,
194
00:11:10,378 --> 00:11:15,225
I could deal with emotions
and self-expression
195
00:11:15,216 --> 00:11:16,843
in a very public way.
196
00:11:17,844 --> 00:11:21,439
Which I couldn't do in real life.
197
00:11:22,432 --> 00:11:25,686
And if it was a substitute
for an interest in sex,
198
00:11:25,685 --> 00:11:30,361
then no wonder it's stayed
with me as long as it has.
199
00:11:30,356 --> 00:11:31,858
I had a secret.
200
00:11:31,858 --> 00:11:34,532
Didn't talk about it,
didn't understand it.
201
00:11:34,527 --> 00:11:35,824
But it was mine.
202
00:11:40,950 --> 00:11:44,329
When we got to Bolton and I was 12,
203
00:11:44,329 --> 00:11:45,831
there were three theatres.
204
00:11:45,830 --> 00:11:50,506
At the Grand, there was a
changing bill of variety acts.
205
00:11:51,544 --> 00:11:56,766
Singers, dancers, comics,
magicians, singing troupes.
206
00:11:58,384 --> 00:12:01,809
Quite famous, some of them,
had been on the radio.
207
00:12:01,804 --> 00:12:04,353
On a Tuesday, when I
knocked on the stage door,
208
00:12:04,349 --> 00:12:05,851
Mr. Bleakely said I can go down.
209
00:12:05,850 --> 00:12:07,602
Oh yeah, go down in.
210
00:12:07,602 --> 00:12:10,105
I'd go down onto the stage level.
211
00:12:12,190 --> 00:12:15,740
And in the dark and the
dust, there were these ropes
212
00:12:15,735 --> 00:12:18,284
going up to the flies
that pulled the scenery.
213
00:12:20,323 --> 00:12:23,122
I went into the dressing
rooms, I met these performers.
214
00:12:24,244 --> 00:12:25,837
Having a wretched life, I suppose.
215
00:12:25,828 --> 00:12:27,125
Paid very little money.
216
00:12:27,121 --> 00:12:29,624
Touring around a different town each week.
217
00:12:30,667 --> 00:12:32,044
Every week of their lives.
218
00:12:33,753 --> 00:12:38,975
But when they stepped out
into the light of the stage
219
00:12:39,050 --> 00:12:41,394
from the darkness, they were transformed.
220
00:12:43,221 --> 00:12:46,691
They smiled, they preened,
they presented themselves.
221
00:12:48,142 --> 00:12:50,144
I'd go and stand by the stage manager.
222
00:12:52,814 --> 00:12:54,031
And I could hear the audience
223
00:12:54,023 --> 00:12:56,651
laughing and clapping, gasping.
224
00:12:57,735 --> 00:13:00,739
I'm always looking for that
dividing line in the theatre.
225
00:13:00,738 --> 00:13:03,742
When are you onstage,
when are you backstage?
226
00:13:03,741 --> 00:13:08,292
And these wonderful troupers
knew that world so well
227
00:13:08,288 --> 00:13:11,792
and I just was fascinated by it.
228
00:13:11,791 --> 00:13:13,338
It was going backstage there
229
00:13:13,334 --> 00:13:16,338
and meeting professional
performers at close quarters,
230
00:13:16,337 --> 00:13:20,763
I think, which decided my fate
and that it was inevitable,
231
00:13:20,758 --> 00:13:22,681
although I didn't feel it at the time,
232
00:13:22,677 --> 00:13:24,350
that I would become one of them.
233
00:13:26,514 --> 00:13:27,811
While other boys were playing football
234
00:13:27,807 --> 00:13:31,061
or while other boys were
playing in the playground,
235
00:13:33,104 --> 00:13:35,027
while others were going
to the scout troop,
236
00:13:36,107 --> 00:13:38,781
I was putting on plays, every turn.
237
00:13:42,071 --> 00:13:43,163
It defined me.
238
00:13:47,410 --> 00:13:51,040
I was constantly trying to improve,
239
00:13:51,039 --> 00:13:54,213
trying to work out ways of
which I could get better.
240
00:13:57,295 --> 00:14:00,094
I would, on a Monday
morning, knowing the lines,
241
00:14:00,089 --> 00:14:02,342
knowing the plot, look
in the mirror and think,
242
00:14:02,342 --> 00:14:04,891
what does this character look like?
243
00:14:04,886 --> 00:14:06,638
And it was the mirror that helped me.
244
00:14:06,637 --> 00:14:10,141
I'd try on those moustaches,
pull those faces and,
245
00:14:10,141 --> 00:14:11,643
oh I see, oh that'll do.
246
00:14:14,729 --> 00:14:16,777
I was brought up by a very
loving group of people.
247
00:14:16,773 --> 00:14:21,244
But North Wales is where we
most went for our holidays
248
00:14:22,195 --> 00:14:25,870
to be with them, bicycling
together, black berrying.
249
00:14:27,992 --> 00:14:33,089
Yeah, that's a big part of what
I enjoyed about being a kid.
250
00:14:35,500 --> 00:14:38,549
When I was away in a school
camp and my uncle John
251
00:14:38,544 --> 00:14:40,012
came down to tell me.
252
00:14:47,804 --> 00:14:50,182
And I then defined myself as Ian
253
00:14:50,181 --> 00:14:52,354
was the boy whose mother had died.
254
00:14:56,938 --> 00:14:58,611
My mother died of breast cancer.
255
00:15:02,652 --> 00:15:07,874
Love, comfort, hugs, kisses.
256
00:15:14,122 --> 00:15:16,921
I never talked to a
psychiatrist about this but
257
00:15:21,087 --> 00:15:24,842
my dreams after she
died were that my father
258
00:15:24,841 --> 00:15:30,063
had put her away, hidden
her, taken her away.
259
00:15:32,432 --> 00:15:34,935
And sometimes in the
dream, she would come back.
260
00:15:39,021 --> 00:15:42,241
And there would be a
wonderful reconciliation
261
00:15:42,233 --> 00:15:47,455
of a woman who was not quite herself...
262
00:15:49,490 --> 00:15:52,494
but still loved me.
263
00:15:56,205 --> 00:15:58,674
I felt at the time I didn't feel it.
264
00:15:59,792 --> 00:16:02,716
But I must have done, and I still do.
265
00:16:05,339 --> 00:16:07,433
It was her having said to her sister
266
00:16:07,425 --> 00:16:09,974
reported to me after her death that if Ian
267
00:16:09,969 --> 00:16:12,142
decides to become an actor, she'd be happy
268
00:16:12,138 --> 00:16:15,017
because actors bring
such pleasure to people.
269
00:16:17,435 --> 00:16:19,984
And I didn't need anybody else's approval.
270
00:16:23,441 --> 00:16:26,285
When I left home to go to university,
271
00:16:26,277 --> 00:16:29,281
I think I rather knew I wouldn't go back,
272
00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:33,160
because I had become, I might join in
273
00:16:33,159 --> 00:16:37,039
with this other part of the
world which I could relate to.
274
00:16:41,292 --> 00:16:43,386
There is a world
elsewhere, Coriolanus says,
275
00:16:43,377 --> 00:16:48,053
and I knew what world it
was that I was intrigued by.
276
00:16:48,049 --> 00:16:50,427
To get into Cambridge, which
is a series of colleges
277
00:16:50,426 --> 00:16:54,522
which have their own entrance
exams, I failed at all those.
278
00:16:54,514 --> 00:16:56,562
But there was one last chance.
279
00:16:58,559 --> 00:17:00,778
And I went for an interview.
280
00:17:02,230 --> 00:17:04,608
(knocking)
281
00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:08,243
He was smoking Bachelor cigarettes
282
00:17:08,236 --> 00:17:13,208
and he offered me a glass
of South African Sherry.
283
00:17:23,834 --> 00:17:27,338
And he said, "I hear you are an actor."
284
00:17:29,257 --> 00:17:30,133
- Yes, sir.
285
00:17:31,008 --> 00:17:32,976
- [Ian Voiceover] I don't like actors.
286
00:17:35,221 --> 00:17:37,019
Read any Shakespeare?
287
00:17:38,891 --> 00:17:39,767
- Yes, sir.
288
00:17:39,767 --> 00:17:41,235
I played King Henry V, sir.
289
00:17:41,227 --> 00:17:42,945
- [Ian Voiceover] Do me a speech.
290
00:17:45,189 --> 00:17:46,065
- Now, sir?
291
00:17:47,650 --> 00:17:48,822
- [Ian Voiceover] So I put my glass down
292
00:17:48,818 --> 00:17:50,820
and I stood on the chair and I said--
293
00:17:50,820 --> 00:17:54,620
- Once more unto the breach,
dear friends, once more.
294
00:17:57,493 --> 00:17:59,746
Or close the wall up
with our English dead.
295
00:18:01,372 --> 00:18:02,544
In peace there's nothing so
296
00:18:02,540 --> 00:18:04,634
becomes a man as modest stillness--
297
00:18:04,625 --> 00:18:06,172
- And he gave me an exhibition lesson
298
00:18:06,168 --> 00:18:07,886
and a minor scholarship.
299
00:18:07,878 --> 00:18:10,347
(chuckling)
300
00:18:16,304 --> 00:18:18,978
So, the most important
audition I ever did in my life,
301
00:18:18,973 --> 00:18:20,850
and that's how I got into Cambridge.
302
00:18:22,977 --> 00:18:25,275
The assumption was that
you would work hard
303
00:18:25,271 --> 00:18:29,276
at Cambridge academically,
and I was warned not
304
00:18:29,275 --> 00:18:34,497
to go down the previous path
that Peter Hall had followed.
305
00:18:34,947 --> 00:18:36,745
I did 21 productions in three years
306
00:18:36,741 --> 00:18:40,211
with amateur undergraduate
groups in Cambridge.
307
00:18:40,202 --> 00:18:42,170
And most of the people there
spoke with a posher accent
308
00:18:42,163 --> 00:18:43,585
than I did and that's when I get rid
309
00:18:43,581 --> 00:18:46,835
of my Lanarkshire accent,
I mean quite deliberately.
310
00:18:46,834 --> 00:18:48,586
Other undergraduates are
doing the same sort of thing.
311
00:18:48,586 --> 00:18:51,339
I mean, who would guess
that Derek Jacobi comes
312
00:18:51,339 --> 00:18:53,182
from deepest, Leytonstone.
313
00:18:53,174 --> 00:18:55,472
No, he had a bit of a posh accent too.
314
00:18:56,552 --> 00:18:58,520
Although my first year
I was living in digs.
315
00:18:58,512 --> 00:19:00,185
I couldn't work there
because of the television on
316
00:19:00,181 --> 00:19:03,526
below my little bedroom
which was also my study.
317
00:19:03,517 --> 00:19:05,315
Because you had to be in
your college by 10 o'clock
318
00:19:05,311 --> 00:19:06,858
at night, and if you
didn't have permission
319
00:19:06,854 --> 00:19:09,698
to stay out later to
rehearse the play with,
320
00:19:09,690 --> 00:19:11,988
you had to climb over the gates.
321
00:19:11,984 --> 00:19:14,112
I was away from home when
I didn't have to have
322
00:19:14,111 --> 00:19:18,662
an ongoing relationship with
my father and my stepmother,
323
00:19:18,658 --> 00:19:20,410
who would occasionally
come and see the shows.
324
00:19:20,409 --> 00:19:24,915
So talking about my relationship with men
325
00:19:24,914 --> 00:19:26,916
was easy enough to avoid.
326
00:19:26,916 --> 00:19:31,217
The idea of being a
homosexual wasn't alien
327
00:19:31,212 --> 00:19:33,635
within theatre circles at university.
328
00:19:34,548 --> 00:19:38,473
So, when I fell in love and was attracted
329
00:19:38,469 --> 00:19:43,691
to one person more than any
other, it just seemed right.
330
00:19:44,433 --> 00:19:47,061
Some of the undergraduates
were doing a production
331
00:19:47,061 --> 00:19:51,282
of Caesar and Cleopatra, amongst
whom was Curt, Curt Dawson.
332
00:19:51,273 --> 00:19:54,447
It was innocent love on my
part, I think, and on his.
333
00:19:55,653 --> 00:19:57,280
The big advantage to me of Cambridge
334
00:19:57,279 --> 00:19:59,953
was that I'm joined in that ethos,
335
00:19:59,949 --> 00:20:02,577
that group, that mafia of young people
336
00:20:02,576 --> 00:20:06,422
who were determined and confident
and wanted to have a life
337
00:20:06,414 --> 00:20:07,290
in the theatre.
338
00:20:07,289 --> 00:20:09,963
The national newspapers would
come down and review us.
339
00:20:09,959 --> 00:20:14,009
Anyone studying drama, to be
reviewed by the Sunday Times
340
00:20:14,004 --> 00:20:16,382
or the Observer or the
Guardian or the Telegraph,
341
00:20:16,382 --> 00:20:17,554
what a gift that was.
342
00:20:17,550 --> 00:20:20,099
Your name became current.
343
00:20:22,054 --> 00:20:25,274
When I was starting out,
the parts I generally played
344
00:20:25,266 --> 00:20:27,985
were not people my own age,
but people in disguise.
345
00:20:27,977 --> 00:20:28,853
Old people.
346
00:20:28,853 --> 00:20:31,026
Extreme characters.
347
00:20:31,021 --> 00:20:32,318
I was playing Justice Shallow
348
00:20:32,314 --> 00:20:34,191
in Henry IV Part Two, an old man.
349
00:20:34,191 --> 00:20:36,239
And the headline was
Here's a brilliant Justice,
350
00:20:36,235 --> 00:20:37,452
but who is he?
351
00:20:39,739 --> 00:20:41,833
And then the piece then went on to say,
352
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:44,417
I'd like to know this actor's name
353
00:20:44,410 --> 00:20:47,129
because it will obviously
become a name to remember.
354
00:20:49,123 --> 00:20:50,545
And when I read that, I decided
355
00:20:50,541 --> 00:20:52,839
to become a professional
actor, that was it.
356
00:20:57,339 --> 00:20:59,967
Your duty is to arrive in the theatre
357
00:20:59,967 --> 00:21:02,937
as absolutely physically fit
358
00:21:02,928 --> 00:21:07,354
and relaxed and alert as possible,
359
00:21:07,349 --> 00:21:10,193
having rested during the
day so that when you come
360
00:21:10,186 --> 00:21:11,779
onto the stage full of energy.
361
00:21:13,272 --> 00:21:16,492
At the peak of your abilities,
physical and mental.
362
00:21:18,152 --> 00:21:20,746
The people who have been
at work all day say,
363
00:21:20,738 --> 00:21:22,456
"How do they do it?"
364
00:21:23,574 --> 00:21:24,917
Well they do it because they
haven't been doing anything,
365
00:21:24,909 --> 00:21:26,661
but now they are.
366
00:21:26,660 --> 00:21:29,539
And you give your energy to the people
367
00:21:29,538 --> 00:21:31,666
who have been working all
day, who need some energy
368
00:21:31,665 --> 00:21:34,293
to revive their spirits for the next day.
369
00:21:34,293 --> 00:21:36,921
That's what acting is about.
370
00:21:36,921 --> 00:21:38,889
That's how you contribute to society.
371
00:21:42,384 --> 00:21:46,059
The impact of your performance
is not predominately facial,
372
00:21:47,223 --> 00:21:50,898
particularly if you're too
far back in the theatre.
373
00:21:50,893 --> 00:21:54,318
What becomes important is the
silhouette, the whole body.
374
00:21:56,982 --> 00:22:01,328
The way the character walks,
gesticulates, his voice,
375
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:05,496
the whole body is the way,
probably, I'm going to get into
376
00:22:05,491 --> 00:22:08,210
feeling and believing
that I am the character.
377
00:22:08,202 --> 00:22:10,296
I walk differently in
every character I play
378
00:22:10,287 --> 00:22:15,509
because human beings do walk
differently, I've noticed.
379
00:22:21,298 --> 00:22:24,643
You could not act in the
professional theatre in London.
380
00:22:24,635 --> 00:22:25,602
You couldn't be on television.
381
00:22:25,594 --> 00:22:27,722
You couldn't be in a film
unless you were a member
382
00:22:27,721 --> 00:22:29,644
of British Actor's Equity.
383
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:30,892
Well, what could you do?
384
00:22:34,562 --> 00:22:36,656
You went out of London to work.
385
00:22:37,606 --> 00:22:39,028
That's what we all did.
386
00:22:39,024 --> 00:22:41,197
And we learned how to act professionally.
387
00:22:42,570 --> 00:22:44,038
We learnt the rigours of the routines
388
00:22:44,029 --> 00:22:45,952
and the techniques and the attitudes.
389
00:22:48,117 --> 00:22:52,247
The romanticism of my
love for the theatre,
390
00:22:52,246 --> 00:22:55,796
it was indulged and satisfied.
391
00:22:55,791 --> 00:22:57,964
I had quickly moved into a flat.
392
00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:00,839
This new theatre had flats for the actors.
393
00:23:00,838 --> 00:23:02,636
We did modern plays that had come straight
394
00:23:02,631 --> 00:23:03,507
from the West End.
395
00:23:03,507 --> 00:23:06,886
We did reviews, we had
to sing, I had to dance.
396
00:23:06,886 --> 00:23:08,354
Did adaptations of Dickens.
397
00:23:08,345 --> 00:23:10,143
We did Shakespeare.
398
00:23:10,139 --> 00:23:11,311
Did Chekhov.
399
00:23:11,307 --> 00:23:14,857
Being befriended by actors
who had been working
400
00:23:14,852 --> 00:23:16,604
in the theatre for 20, 3O years
401
00:23:16,604 --> 00:23:18,481
and really knew what they were doing.
402
00:23:21,859 --> 00:23:26,205
Yes, I was in rep at Ipswich
and just got myself an agent.
403
00:23:26,196 --> 00:23:30,201
And she received a call from
the Nottingham playhouse
404
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:31,952
which had just been built and asked me
405
00:23:31,952 --> 00:23:36,298
would I play, she thought, the
first citizen in Coriolanus,
406
00:23:36,290 --> 00:23:38,418
which Turin Guthrie was going to direct.
407
00:23:38,417 --> 00:23:39,964
Now, the first citizen
was quite a good part
408
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:43,885
despite its anonymity, and unanonymity.
409
00:23:43,881 --> 00:23:46,259
And I went out there very
thrilled to be doing that,
410
00:23:46,258 --> 00:23:48,386
and we sat around for the
first day's rehearsal,
411
00:23:48,385 --> 00:23:50,012
which was going to be a
read-through of the play,
412
00:23:50,012 --> 00:23:52,060
and Guthrie, just before
that started, said,
413
00:23:52,056 --> 00:23:55,686
"Now, where is the Aufidius?"
414
00:23:55,684 --> 00:23:56,776
And everyone looked
around, including myself,
415
00:23:56,769 --> 00:23:58,737
and until the finger was pointed at me,
416
00:23:58,729 --> 00:24:00,151
and I was told that I was playing Aufidius
417
00:24:00,147 --> 00:24:03,401
and my agent had just
misheard over the phone,
418
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:04,822
the first citizen, Aufidius.
419
00:24:04,818 --> 00:24:06,445
They have the same sort of rhythm.
420
00:24:06,445 --> 00:24:08,914
And I suddenly found
myself playing what was
421
00:24:08,906 --> 00:24:12,035
turned out to be practically,
well, the second leading part.
422
00:24:14,411 --> 00:24:18,086
At the end of Coriolanus,
when his rival and dear friend
423
00:24:18,082 --> 00:24:22,132
slaughters him, Aufidius
expresses his deep regret
424
00:24:22,127 --> 00:24:24,221
that he's killed his best friend.
425
00:24:26,548 --> 00:24:31,600
And that's normally played as ironic.
426
00:24:32,554 --> 00:24:35,148
And Guthrie said, "No, be truthful.
427
00:24:35,140 --> 00:24:36,687
"You killed him, you needed to kill him,
428
00:24:36,684 --> 00:24:37,981
"you had to kill him, you couldn't
429
00:24:37,977 --> 00:24:40,571
"stop yourself killing
him, and you do immediately
430
00:24:41,647 --> 00:24:43,570
"see the other side of the situation.
431
00:24:43,565 --> 00:24:46,318
"So that's what you must feel.
432
00:24:46,318 --> 00:24:48,616
"You must turn on a sixpence."
433
00:24:48,612 --> 00:24:53,288
And he encouraged me to wail
deep, deep subtle grief.
434
00:24:53,283 --> 00:24:55,581
Cry that wasn't written by Shakespeare.
435
00:24:55,577 --> 00:24:58,547
It was a moment I dodged
in all the rehearsals.
436
00:24:58,539 --> 00:25:00,917
But I knew that I was going to
have to do it at some point,
437
00:25:00,916 --> 00:25:05,342
and at the dress rehearsal, I
tried to do it and couldn't.
438
00:25:05,337 --> 00:25:10,138
And Guthrie came down the aisle wrapped up
439
00:25:10,134 --> 00:25:12,182
in a scarf, he had a cold.
440
00:25:12,177 --> 00:25:14,396
And said, "lan, you have to do this.
441
00:25:14,388 --> 00:25:16,891
"You have to persuade the audience.
442
00:25:16,890 --> 00:25:20,565
"These are people who are
living at the extremes.
443
00:25:21,895 --> 00:25:23,613
"You have to be heartfelt and you have
444
00:25:23,605 --> 00:25:26,324
"to be utterly committed
and let's do it again now."
445
00:25:27,860 --> 00:25:30,704
(dramatic music)
446
00:25:54,136 --> 00:25:56,059
And I did and found I could
447
00:25:56,055 --> 00:25:58,353
for the first time, perhaps ever,
448
00:25:58,348 --> 00:26:03,570
is to dare, risk, be carefree,
449
00:26:05,314 --> 00:26:07,237
to be unembarrassed,
450
00:26:07,483 --> 00:26:12,034
to be bold, not be shy, to know,
or at least take advantage,
451
00:26:12,029 --> 00:26:16,079
of the fact that in that
moment, you are in charge.
452
00:26:16,075 --> 00:26:19,420
However useless your
life outside might feel
453
00:26:19,411 --> 00:26:22,290
as that's happening, you're
doing Shakespeare's bidding
454
00:26:22,289 --> 00:26:27,511
as it were.
455
00:26:27,544 --> 00:26:31,765
And my dad came to see Coriolanus
and he met Turin Guthrie.
456
00:26:31,757 --> 00:26:34,260
And Guthrie said, "You must
be very proud of your son."
457
00:26:41,558 --> 00:26:44,152
Dad and Gladys, my stepmother,
came to the first night party
458
00:26:44,144 --> 00:26:45,270
in our flat.
459
00:26:46,814 --> 00:26:49,442
Dad sat on the floor, I
had never seen that before.
460
00:26:51,110 --> 00:26:53,112
Chatting up the actresses, I think.
461
00:26:54,321 --> 00:26:55,197
Well, they were all intrigued by him,
462
00:26:55,197 --> 00:26:57,291
he was an attractive man.
463
00:26:57,282 --> 00:26:59,284
Gladys thrilled to be with
some professional actors.
464
00:26:59,284 --> 00:27:01,833
She's adored them since she was a child.
465
00:27:06,708 --> 00:27:11,714
And three weeks later, he
had a stroke or something,
466
00:27:11,797 --> 00:27:17,019
a blackout driving the car
before the time of safety belts.
467
00:27:17,052 --> 00:27:19,054
The steering wheel caved in his chest
468
00:27:19,054 --> 00:27:20,476
and he died a day later.
469
00:27:23,058 --> 00:27:25,732
During my teenage years, I
was horrible to my father.
470
00:27:25,727 --> 00:27:27,604
I wouldn't talk to him.
471
00:27:27,604 --> 00:27:28,571
I just couldn't.
472
00:27:29,606 --> 00:27:30,573
I didn't know why.
473
00:27:32,609 --> 00:27:37,365
I saw only things that
I thought he did wrong.
474
00:27:37,364 --> 00:27:39,492
I didn't see his merits.
475
00:27:45,164 --> 00:27:47,838
No, I wasn't much of a son.
476
00:27:49,001 --> 00:27:50,594
Well, that's because I was a gay
477
00:27:50,586 --> 00:27:53,055
and if I had a girlfriend I was proud of
478
00:27:53,046 --> 00:27:55,799
and wanted to show off and
talk about getting engaged,
479
00:27:55,799 --> 00:27:57,517
of course I would have gone home.
480
00:28:01,638 --> 00:28:05,984
Well, I was in a play which
there was a coffin on the stage.
481
00:28:09,438 --> 00:28:12,863
And I went to the funeral
and I came back that evening
482
00:28:12,858 --> 00:28:13,734
and did the show.
483
00:28:18,113 --> 00:28:21,208
I don't think actors do it these days.
484
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,123
I think if somebody close to you dies,
485
00:28:23,118 --> 00:28:24,415
then you take the day off.
486
00:28:24,411 --> 00:28:25,287
But we didn't then.
487
00:28:25,287 --> 00:28:27,460
The show must go on, you know?
488
00:28:34,421 --> 00:28:36,469
I must have tried to get into films.
489
00:28:36,465 --> 00:28:38,968
And yes, they didn't really want me.
490
00:28:40,719 --> 00:28:42,096
I went for an interview
491
00:28:42,095 --> 00:28:44,393
to play Noel Coward, just an interview.
492
00:28:46,016 --> 00:28:47,518
And somebody there said,
493
00:28:47,517 --> 00:28:50,521
"He's got the look of the young Noel."
494
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,614
And I reported this to
my agents at the time
495
00:28:52,606 --> 00:28:54,074
who was rather pushy who said, "Right.
496
00:28:54,066 --> 00:28:56,285
"Get yourself some photographs
to take as Noel Coward."
497
00:28:56,276 --> 00:28:59,746
So back home, I asked a friend
to come and photograph me.
498
00:29:00,614 --> 00:29:02,412
Impressed by these
photographs, I was called in
499
00:29:02,407 --> 00:29:06,128
for a full day's screen audition.
500
00:29:06,119 --> 00:29:08,668
The man directing was
the screenplay writer.
501
00:29:08,664 --> 00:29:10,086
He said, "You've got the part.
502
00:29:10,082 --> 00:29:13,837
"Dan Massit did it
yesterday, but no, you nailed."
503
00:29:13,835 --> 00:29:16,634
Well, Dan Massit was Noel Coward's godson
504
00:29:16,630 --> 00:29:20,180
and I don't suppose my audition
was ever taken seriously.
505
00:29:21,385 --> 00:29:22,261
And then there was an offer to be
506
00:29:22,261 --> 00:29:25,356
in a film with Gregory Peck,
who was a big star at the time.
507
00:29:26,807 --> 00:29:28,684
And the snows arrived early that year
508
00:29:28,684 --> 00:29:30,436
and the whole thing was abandoned.
509
00:29:32,062 --> 00:29:34,315
So this young actor
thought fuck it, really.
510
00:29:34,314 --> 00:29:36,237
If that's the way films are done,
511
00:29:36,233 --> 00:29:38,361
I don't want anything to do with them.
512
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:40,533
So I threw myself into the theatre again.
513
00:29:42,614 --> 00:29:45,709
Maggie Smith, then at the National Theatre
514
00:29:45,701 --> 00:29:48,875
as a young actress, came to
see her friend Phyllis Calbert,
515
00:29:48,870 --> 00:29:51,293
spied me and reported
back to Laurence Olivier
516
00:29:51,290 --> 00:29:55,090
who was running the Old
Vic as the National Theatre
517
00:29:55,085 --> 00:29:57,304
and said, "lf you're looking for a Claudio
518
00:29:57,296 --> 00:29:59,390
"in Much Ado About
Nothing, I think he's done,
519
00:29:59,381 --> 00:30:02,100
"they're mending a bicycle onstage."
520
00:30:02,092 --> 00:30:05,517
I thought, this is big,
big international stuff.
521
00:30:05,512 --> 00:30:08,641
This was the most famous
theatre troupe in the world.
522
00:30:13,353 --> 00:30:17,324
I was employed to start off
by playing the young hero
523
00:30:17,316 --> 00:30:21,412
in Much Ado About Nothing,
which starred young Maggie Smith
524
00:30:21,403 --> 00:30:24,031
and her, I think, then
husband Robert Stephens.
525
00:30:25,324 --> 00:30:29,079
Albert Finney was playing
Don Pedro, the next lead.
526
00:30:29,077 --> 00:30:30,795
And I was sort of just below that.
527
00:30:30,787 --> 00:30:33,415
So I felt rather overwhelmed.
528
00:30:34,333 --> 00:30:36,802
Don't think I said more
than 10 words to Maggie
529
00:30:36,793 --> 00:30:40,138
and they a few minutes when
we were doing the play,
530
00:30:40,130 --> 00:30:42,383
I'd felt very much out of it,
531
00:30:42,382 --> 00:30:46,512
although my old friends
from Cambridge days was
532
00:30:46,511 --> 00:30:49,765
in the company playing
the villain, Derek Jacobi.
533
00:30:50,766 --> 00:30:54,566
I couldn't keep my eyes off
Finney when we were rehearsing.
534
00:30:55,937 --> 00:31:00,067
And he was absolutely as
charismatic offstage as he was on.
535
00:31:00,067 --> 00:31:03,116
But again, I couldn't
feel I could befriend
536
00:31:03,111 --> 00:31:07,082
such an iconic young man.
537
00:31:08,450 --> 00:31:09,702
I didn't much enjoy doing it.
538
00:31:09,701 --> 00:31:11,544
I was very nervous all the time.
539
00:31:11,536 --> 00:31:13,959
And looking around me at
all the other young men
540
00:31:13,955 --> 00:31:15,798
who were in the company at the National,
541
00:31:15,791 --> 00:31:18,670
I thought if I'm going to
stay with this company,
542
00:31:18,668 --> 00:31:21,672
it's going to be a long
time before I get to play
543
00:31:21,671 --> 00:31:24,140
parts in which I can really make my mark.
544
00:31:27,052 --> 00:31:27,928
So I left.
545
00:31:29,304 --> 00:31:33,150
And Olivier wrote a letter
with typical florid language
546
00:31:33,141 --> 00:31:36,896
saying he was haunted by the
spectre of lost opportunity.
547
00:31:39,022 --> 00:31:41,571
I got this offer to go and
do a newly formed company
548
00:31:41,566 --> 00:31:44,240
called Prospect, it was Richard ll.
549
00:31:44,236 --> 00:31:45,954
And when that was a success,
550
00:31:45,946 --> 00:31:49,246
we revived it for the
1969 Edinburgh festival.
551
00:31:49,241 --> 00:31:50,959
And accompanied it
552
00:31:50,951 --> 00:31:53,124
with Christopher Marlowe's play Edward ll.
553
00:31:54,037 --> 00:31:54,913
It was a big production.
554
00:31:54,913 --> 00:31:57,757
It was 2O actors or more in the company.
555
00:31:57,749 --> 00:31:59,968
Simple sets, because they had to tour.
556
00:31:59,960 --> 00:32:02,554
There wasn't much money for anybody.
557
00:32:02,546 --> 00:32:04,594
My name's Ian McKellen.
558
00:32:04,589 --> 00:32:07,342
I'm a 3O year old actor
earning 50 pounds a week
559
00:32:07,342 --> 00:32:10,892
playing Richard II in a play
by Shakespeare and Edward ll
560
00:32:10,887 --> 00:32:14,812
in a play by Marlowe, at
the end of a 12 week tour
561
00:32:14,808 --> 00:32:16,435
of theatres in Britain.
562
00:32:16,435 --> 00:32:19,985
(dramatic trumpet music)
563
00:32:26,486 --> 00:32:29,581
- Alack, why am I sent for to a king
564
00:32:29,573 --> 00:32:31,996
before I have shook off the regal thoughts
565
00:32:31,992 --> 00:32:32,914
wherewith I reigned?
566
00:32:32,909 --> 00:32:35,662
I hardly yet have learned to insinuate,
567
00:32:35,662 --> 00:32:38,506
flatter, bow, and bend the knee.
568
00:32:38,498 --> 00:32:41,752
Give sorrow leave a while to
tutor me to this submission.
569
00:32:42,794 --> 00:32:46,924
And yet I will remember
the favours of these men.
570
00:32:46,923 --> 00:32:48,049
Were they not mine?
571
00:32:50,427 --> 00:32:53,055
Did they not sometime cry all hail to me?
572
00:32:53,054 --> 00:32:54,931
So Judas did to Christ,
573
00:32:56,433 --> 00:32:59,528
yet he and 12 found truth in all but one.
574
00:32:59,519 --> 00:33:03,399
I in 12,000, none.
575
00:33:06,276 --> 00:33:08,825
- My swelling heart for very anger breaks.
576
00:33:10,238 --> 00:33:12,036
How oft have I been baited by these peers
577
00:33:12,032 --> 00:33:14,626
and dare not be revenged
for their power is great.
578
00:33:16,411 --> 00:33:19,915
But shall the crowing of these
cockerels affright a lion?
579
00:33:19,915 --> 00:33:24,637
Edward, unfold thy paws,
and let their lives' blood
580
00:33:24,628 --> 00:33:26,676
slake thy fury's hunger.
581
00:33:28,298 --> 00:33:33,020
If I be cruel and grow tyrannous,
582
00:33:36,515 --> 00:33:40,986
now let them thank
themselves and rue too late.
583
00:33:41,895 --> 00:33:42,771
- [Ian] For me to be able
584
00:33:42,771 --> 00:33:45,945
to play two absolutely massive parts,
585
00:33:45,941 --> 00:33:48,911
established me as an actor in every sense.
586
00:33:48,902 --> 00:33:52,122
- Sweet Spencer, we adopt thee here.
587
00:33:52,113 --> 00:33:53,865
And merely of our love,
588
00:33:53,865 --> 00:33:56,118
we do create thee Earl of Gloucester.
589
00:34:01,831 --> 00:34:04,459
- [Ian] I was the leading,
young leading man.
590
00:34:06,419 --> 00:34:08,217
I got the pick of the parts.
591
00:34:08,213 --> 00:34:09,089
You know.
592
00:34:13,218 --> 00:34:14,891
Although I wasn't really aware of it,
593
00:34:14,886 --> 00:34:17,560
I suppose I had become a young star.
594
00:34:23,228 --> 00:34:25,856
(upbeat music)
595
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:28,692
- Ian McKellen.
- Ian McKellen.
596
00:34:28,692 --> 00:34:30,444
597
00:34:30,443 --> 00:34:33,071
- British actor Ian McKellen.
- I think he's going to be
598
00:34:33,071 --> 00:34:34,414
a very important star.
599
00:34:35,407 --> 00:34:37,205
- [Woman] One of his
country's best actors.
600
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:39,328
- [Man] A man said to be
the leading classical actor
601
00:34:39,327 --> 00:34:41,170
of his generation.
602
00:34:41,162 --> 00:34:42,960
- [Reporter] McKellen could
earn considerably more
603
00:34:42,956 --> 00:34:46,836
by staying permanently in
London or going into films.
604
00:34:46,835 --> 00:34:49,088
But he prefers to go out on tour.
605
00:34:49,087 --> 00:34:51,306
- I can't go through the stage door,
606
00:34:51,298 --> 00:34:54,347
which is where the actors
and other theatre workers go
607
00:34:56,386 --> 00:34:59,310
of any theatre anywhere
without being excited.
608
00:35:01,141 --> 00:35:04,520
Because there, I'm in this secret world
609
00:35:04,519 --> 00:35:06,738
that the public know nothing about.
610
00:35:08,023 --> 00:35:09,775
I relished, as a young man,
611
00:35:09,774 --> 00:35:13,620
being able to fill those
theatres and reach people.
612
00:35:14,696 --> 00:35:16,448
The audience could forget where they were
613
00:35:16,448 --> 00:35:18,746
and just concentrate on the relationship
614
00:35:18,742 --> 00:35:19,789
that we were having.
615
00:35:23,121 --> 00:35:24,998
I felt that I could almost touch them,
616
00:35:24,998 --> 00:35:26,671
at least I could with my voice.
617
00:35:30,211 --> 00:35:32,805
My professional life is
devoted to strangers.
618
00:35:32,797 --> 00:35:35,266
I'm in the company of
strangers all day long.
619
00:35:35,258 --> 00:35:37,477
They're potential friends.
620
00:35:37,469 --> 00:35:40,723
I mean, I've had two or three stalkers
621
00:35:40,722 --> 00:35:42,099
for want of a better word.
622
00:35:42,098 --> 00:35:46,274
A young lady who I had met
at a stage door no more
623
00:35:46,269 --> 00:35:50,445
than that, came into a rehearsal
room when I was in London,
624
00:35:51,358 --> 00:35:54,737
picked up a glass ashtray, and broke it
625
00:35:54,736 --> 00:35:59,742
against the metal heater,
and slashed her wrists,
626
00:35:59,783 --> 00:36:05,005
to what, get my attention
or convey her misery
627
00:36:05,038 --> 00:36:06,836
with which she associated me.
628
00:36:08,291 --> 00:36:11,420
You can't really complain
when you spend your life,
629
00:36:11,419 --> 00:36:14,548
professionally, trying
to affect people's lives
630
00:36:14,547 --> 00:36:16,800
and their thoughts and their emotions.
631
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,394
It's what you've been trying to do.
632
00:36:19,386 --> 00:36:21,980
You've been trying to get
involved in their lives.
633
00:36:27,060 --> 00:36:29,108
To act for a long run in London
634
00:36:30,730 --> 00:36:32,073
doesn't hold that much appeal to me.
635
00:36:32,065 --> 00:36:33,282
It seems to me that the West End
636
00:36:33,274 --> 00:36:36,244
is mainly a tourist theatre.
637
00:36:36,236 --> 00:36:38,284
One doesn't really feel
that one's contributing much
638
00:36:38,279 --> 00:36:41,749
to society in general from his acting
639
00:36:41,741 --> 00:36:43,334
to a lot of people who
are just on holiday.
640
00:36:43,326 --> 00:36:46,500
When you come to Leeds, when
you play to packed houses,
641
00:36:46,496 --> 00:36:48,248
you feel that for that week at least,
642
00:36:48,248 --> 00:36:49,966
you've set up your tent like a circus
643
00:36:49,958 --> 00:36:52,507
and you've made some
sort of impact on people
644
00:36:52,502 --> 00:36:54,095
who won't forget you and their lives
645
00:36:54,087 --> 00:36:57,216
might just have been changed a
little bit by the experience.
646
00:36:59,342 --> 00:37:02,767
The Actors Company was an idea that Edward
647
00:37:02,762 --> 00:37:04,514
and I had had together and we began
648
00:37:04,514 --> 00:37:07,358
by inviting some friends who, like us,
649
00:37:07,350 --> 00:37:11,651
perhaps had been with the
big national companies.
650
00:37:11,646 --> 00:37:15,025
Felt a bit remote from how
the organisation happened,
651
00:37:15,024 --> 00:37:17,493
and had been keen to organise themselves.
652
00:37:17,485 --> 00:37:18,361
If the play was going to be a success,
653
00:37:18,361 --> 00:37:21,490
it would be because the actors
were working well together
654
00:37:21,489 --> 00:37:23,207
with the director.
655
00:37:23,199 --> 00:37:24,416
It's a subtle change.
656
00:37:24,409 --> 00:37:26,787
Normally, a director will choose the cast.
657
00:37:27,912 --> 00:37:30,756
In this case, the cast chose the director.
658
00:37:30,749 --> 00:37:32,751
I was touring.
659
00:37:32,751 --> 00:37:34,970
I wasn't London-centric.
660
00:37:34,961 --> 00:37:36,429
It was very, very hard work.
661
00:37:36,421 --> 00:37:39,470
But it revolutionised the abilities I had
662
00:37:39,466 --> 00:37:41,935
to present my case at a meeting.
663
00:37:41,926 --> 00:37:44,850
I've never had to do that before, really.
664
00:37:44,846 --> 00:37:48,441
Well, that changed my life absolutely.
665
00:37:48,433 --> 00:37:50,731
It was something I had initiated.
666
00:37:50,727 --> 00:37:52,775
It seemed easy because
it was based on things
667
00:37:52,771 --> 00:37:55,149
I absolutely believed in the idea
668
00:37:55,148 --> 00:37:58,322
that it was only a group
of like-minded people
669
00:37:58,318 --> 00:38:01,743
working closest together could
put on the best productions.
670
00:38:01,738 --> 00:38:03,786
Well, you can imagine
the sort of confidence
671
00:38:03,782 --> 00:38:06,581
that we all had that this was ours.
672
00:38:06,576 --> 00:38:07,828
It was us.
673
00:38:13,208 --> 00:38:17,714
My sense of inadequacy and
discomfort and uncertainty
674
00:38:20,048 --> 00:38:23,803
I felt strongly before
I came out, I think.
675
00:38:23,802 --> 00:38:28,182
I related directly towards
the first 49 years of my life,
676
00:38:28,181 --> 00:38:31,060
having on occasion to
pretend to be something
677
00:38:31,059 --> 00:38:33,903
other than I was or not
be honest about myself.
678
00:38:35,313 --> 00:38:38,487
I was absolutely not
confident in being butch
679
00:38:38,483 --> 00:38:41,578
or over-masculine and
that's probably to do
680
00:38:41,569 --> 00:38:45,073
with the fact that I was
different and not interested
681
00:38:45,073 --> 00:38:49,374
in women, which these sort of
characters were, I suppose.
682
00:38:51,913 --> 00:38:57,135
When I look back at TV
stuff that I did early on,
683
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:03,221
or film, I am not impressed at all.
684
00:39:04,384 --> 00:39:05,260
- I'm a great believer
in family, you know.
685
00:39:06,177 --> 00:39:07,474
Inheriting things and all that.
686
00:39:07,470 --> 00:39:08,346
- Oh really?
687
00:39:08,346 --> 00:39:09,723
- Oh yes indeed, it's
amazing what gets passed on
688
00:39:09,722 --> 00:39:10,644
from father to son.
689
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:12,483
And I don't just mean appearances either.
690
00:39:12,475 --> 00:39:13,317
- Gracious.
691
00:39:13,309 --> 00:39:15,152
- Liable to think not so bad on any terms.
692
00:39:15,144 --> 00:39:17,192
I can't bear it, and I won't.
693
00:39:18,064 --> 00:39:19,316
I've loved you every minute day and night
694
00:39:19,315 --> 00:39:20,237
since I first met you.
695
00:39:20,233 --> 00:39:21,701
Oh, doubt that the stars are on fire.
696
00:39:21,693 --> 00:39:22,660
Doubt that the sun's...
697
00:39:22,652 --> 00:39:25,075
Get off me.
(dog whimpering)
698
00:39:25,071 --> 00:39:27,119
I'm asking you to be my wife, Dora.
699
00:39:27,115 --> 00:39:28,742
If you love me even 1/10
as much as I love you,
700
00:39:28,741 --> 00:39:29,788
you can't refuse me.
701
00:39:30,660 --> 00:39:32,537
Dora, say you'll be mine.
702
00:39:32,537 --> 00:39:33,584
Say yes, Dora.
703
00:39:34,664 --> 00:39:36,257
- [Ian] And it's when we
did Macbeth in a very,
704
00:39:36,249 --> 00:39:38,172
very small theatre at Stratford,
705
00:39:38,167 --> 00:39:40,511
the other place with only a hundred people
706
00:39:40,503 --> 00:39:44,849
scattered around the
stage, I realised that
707
00:39:44,841 --> 00:39:48,220
that was the size of
theatre I most enjoyed.
708
00:39:49,888 --> 00:39:54,268
That discovery in 1976 began to fit me
709
00:39:54,267 --> 00:39:56,565
for television and the cinema.
710
00:39:58,563 --> 00:40:02,943
- A handle toward my hand.
711
00:40:02,942 --> 00:40:04,660
Come, let me touch thee.
712
00:40:07,196 --> 00:40:10,826
Have thee not.
713
00:40:10,825 --> 00:40:12,998
And yet I see thee still.
714
00:40:12,994 --> 00:40:14,996
Art thou not a fatal vision,
715
00:40:14,996 --> 00:40:17,670
sensible to feeling as to sight?
716
00:40:17,665 --> 00:40:20,965
Or art thou but a dagger of
the mind, a false creation,
717
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:23,088
proceeding from the heat-oppressed brain?
718
00:40:24,005 --> 00:40:27,930
- [Ian] That way of doing
Shakespeare is now the model
719
00:40:27,926 --> 00:40:30,020
for many people, that Shakespeare belongs
720
00:40:30,011 --> 00:40:34,437
in very small theatres
where you're witnessing
721
00:40:34,432 --> 00:40:39,654
the dissection of a man's
mind and imagination.
722
00:40:42,774 --> 00:40:45,197
- Who lies in the second chamber?
723
00:40:45,193 --> 00:40:47,070
- Donalbain.
724
00:40:47,070 --> 00:40:49,198
- This is a sorry sight.
725
00:40:49,197 --> 00:40:50,870
- [Ian] And in a small theatre,
726
00:40:50,865 --> 00:40:56,087
that's claustrophobically overwhelming,
727
00:40:56,454 --> 00:40:59,833
where every detail is
available to everybody.
728
00:40:59,832 --> 00:41:02,585
- Thy bones are marrowless,
thy blood is cold.
729
00:41:02,585 --> 00:41:04,883
Thou hast no speculation in those eyes
730
00:41:04,879 --> 00:41:05,755
which thou dost glare with.
731
00:41:05,755 --> 00:41:10,135
- I was able to just be, exists, alert
732
00:41:10,134 --> 00:41:11,807
to the fact that it was a performance,
733
00:41:11,803 --> 00:41:14,932
but relaxed in the
moment, making it fresh,
734
00:41:14,931 --> 00:41:17,150
and doing it just for these people now
735
00:41:17,141 --> 00:41:21,066
whose eyes I could actually look into
736
00:41:21,062 --> 00:41:23,406
as I was speaking if necessary.
737
00:41:23,398 --> 00:41:25,821
- And that which should accompany old age.
738
00:41:25,817 --> 00:41:31,039
As honour, love, obedience,
troops of friends.
739
00:41:35,702 --> 00:41:39,627
- I was part of what's now
looked back at as a golden era
740
00:41:39,622 --> 00:41:41,090
of the arts, see?
741
00:41:42,834 --> 00:41:45,963
A lifelong friendship with
Judi Dench resulted from it.
742
00:41:45,962 --> 00:41:47,384
I loved working with her.
743
00:41:48,256 --> 00:41:51,180
She's not an easy actress
to work with in one sense
744
00:41:51,175 --> 00:41:53,519
in that the audience are
all in love with her.
745
00:41:53,511 --> 00:41:56,310
You feel rather cut out when
you're onstage with her.
746
00:41:57,306 --> 00:41:59,980
Now, Judi can always be relied
onto give you a good time,
747
00:41:59,976 --> 00:42:04,652
and she's, I think, would
much rather be playing games,
748
00:42:04,647 --> 00:42:05,990
silly games.
749
00:42:05,982 --> 00:42:07,575
If she decides that we gotta do something,
750
00:42:07,567 --> 00:42:09,160
then we all do it.
751
00:42:09,152 --> 00:42:11,325
To enliven a matinee performance,
752
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:16,201
she said she distributed
little red sticking circles
753
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:18,623
that you might put on a Post-it board.
754
00:42:19,579 --> 00:42:22,879
And we were each of us
required to wear one
755
00:42:22,874 --> 00:42:26,629
of these red dots about our costume.
756
00:42:26,627 --> 00:42:29,050
And at the end of the performance,
757
00:42:29,047 --> 00:42:31,596
you would tell the group leader Judi
758
00:42:31,591 --> 00:42:35,061
how many red spots you'd spotted.
759
00:42:35,053 --> 00:42:37,226
(chuckling)
760
00:42:37,221 --> 00:42:40,145
John Woodvine playing Banquo knelt down
761
00:42:40,141 --> 00:42:42,519
to me as king and everyone else was able
762
00:42:42,518 --> 00:42:46,443
to observe that he got his
other sole of his shoe.
763
00:42:46,439 --> 00:42:49,943
When we all saw it, we all laughed.
764
00:42:49,942 --> 00:42:50,943
Outrageous.
765
00:42:52,612 --> 00:42:53,488
Of course, the tricky bit
766
00:42:53,488 --> 00:42:56,367
is not to let the audience
know you're laughing.
767
00:42:56,365 --> 00:42:58,242
Dear oh dear oh dear.
768
00:42:58,242 --> 00:43:00,165
We get away with so much, actors.
769
00:43:00,161 --> 00:43:03,415
I mean, the childishness of let's pretend,
770
00:43:03,414 --> 00:43:06,167
let's make-believe, bang, you're dead.
771
00:43:07,168 --> 00:43:11,014
We get to behave a way in
which real adults don't do
772
00:43:11,005 --> 00:43:12,973
and we're allowed to do it.
773
00:43:12,965 --> 00:43:15,388
And thank goodness, because it's fun.
774
00:43:16,511 --> 00:43:17,603
I love laughing.
775
00:43:18,971 --> 00:43:20,143
Don't do it that often.
776
00:43:21,808 --> 00:43:23,151
Not many things make me laugh,
777
00:43:23,142 --> 00:43:25,486
but Sean Mathias makes me
laugh, and our relationship,
778
00:43:25,478 --> 00:43:28,277
which began when we met as actors
779
00:43:28,272 --> 00:43:32,573
at the Edinburgh festival
in 1978, I remember
780
00:43:32,568 --> 00:43:34,036
the first evening we spent together.
781
00:43:34,028 --> 00:43:35,496
What we were laughing about.
782
00:43:42,537 --> 00:43:45,381
(chuckling)
783
00:43:45,373 --> 00:43:47,171
(upbeat music)
784
00:43:47,166 --> 00:43:49,419
If you play the leading part
in a hit show on Broadway,
785
00:43:49,418 --> 00:43:52,922
there are few more alluring
prospects for an actor.
786
00:43:52,922 --> 00:43:54,640
Everybody knows who you are.
787
00:43:54,632 --> 00:43:56,760
Everybody thinks you're marvellous.
788
00:43:56,759 --> 00:43:58,557
It's a theatre town.
789
00:43:58,553 --> 00:44:01,306
If you make it there, you'll
make it anywhere, you know.
790
00:44:01,305 --> 00:44:02,898
So it was terribly, terribly exciting.
791
00:44:02,890 --> 00:44:06,269
And the centre of New York
was rather a wild place.
792
00:44:06,269 --> 00:44:08,863
There are no distractions
of national politics
793
00:44:08,855 --> 00:44:10,857
in New York as there are in London.
794
00:44:11,983 --> 00:44:16,159
The main industry,
really, supporting tourism
795
00:44:16,154 --> 00:44:17,622
is the theatre, is Broadway.
796
00:44:18,531 --> 00:44:20,704
And you're the top of the heap.
797
00:44:20,700 --> 00:44:21,747
- Ian McKellen.
798
00:44:21,742 --> 00:44:24,086
(applause)
799
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:37,934
- My god, you're mixing with presidents.
800
00:44:37,925 --> 00:44:42,931
Almost every night, some
local celebrity would drop by.
801
00:44:43,014 --> 00:44:44,391
Barbra Streisand arriving
802
00:44:44,390 --> 00:44:46,392
in the dressing room with Noel Coward.
803
00:44:47,310 --> 00:44:48,732
And I found myself introducing them
804
00:44:48,728 --> 00:44:50,230
to the other person in the dressing room.
805
00:44:50,229 --> 00:44:54,609
Do you know Rudolf Nureyev,
who was the most famous dancer
806
00:44:54,609 --> 00:44:55,485
at the time.
807
00:44:55,484 --> 00:44:57,907
Rudy may have flirted
with me a little bit.
808
00:44:57,904 --> 00:45:00,623
I don't think I really noticed.
809
00:45:00,615 --> 00:45:02,583
My name in lights for the first time.
810
00:45:02,575 --> 00:45:04,168
Whoa.
811
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:06,003
It actually isn't that big a deal.
812
00:45:05,995 --> 00:45:07,997
But you say to yourself,
813
00:45:07,997 --> 00:45:11,672
oh I see, I've had my name in lights.
814
00:45:14,086 --> 00:45:16,509
Winning the Tony at the end of that year,
815
00:45:16,505 --> 00:45:20,476
it remains a confirmation
that that was work well done.
816
00:45:20,468 --> 00:45:22,721
I think perhaps of all my
awards that that's the one
817
00:45:22,720 --> 00:45:26,725
that means something to
me, because it sums up
818
00:45:28,142 --> 00:45:29,564
what the year was like, number one.
819
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:31,779
And when Sean and I fell in love,
820
00:45:32,813 --> 00:45:35,362
it seemed better for us
to start our relationship
821
00:45:35,358 --> 00:45:38,362
of a formal nature by living in a place
822
00:45:38,361 --> 00:45:39,829
that neither of us had lived in before.
823
00:45:39,820 --> 00:45:41,163
So it became ours.
824
00:45:42,615 --> 00:45:44,788
Well, he's been a huge
influence on my life.
825
00:45:44,784 --> 00:45:47,503
A director who's also a very close friend
826
00:45:47,495 --> 00:45:50,123
and who knows more about
me than anybody else.
827
00:45:50,122 --> 00:45:55,128
And who loves me in a way that
he won't let me do anything
828
00:45:55,294 --> 00:45:57,513
that is less than my best.
829
00:45:59,423 --> 00:46:02,393
My biggest weakness of an
actor, don't tell anybody,
830
00:46:02,385 --> 00:46:05,980
is if there's a scene of high emotion,
831
00:46:05,972 --> 00:46:10,398
when a character's out of
control of his emotions,
832
00:46:11,352 --> 00:46:14,697
you have to totally commit
to that and in the moment
833
00:46:14,689 --> 00:46:17,317
delve into things that you perhaps
834
00:46:17,316 --> 00:46:18,909
don't know about yourself.
835
00:46:19,902 --> 00:46:21,324
And I found that difficult.
836
00:46:22,321 --> 00:46:26,952
What I can't get to grips with
is the essence of the man.
837
00:46:32,206 --> 00:46:35,961
And so I'm having to go back
rather in these late stages
838
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:41,182
of rehearsal to absolute
basics of what the man is.
839
00:46:42,091 --> 00:46:47,313
What do his attitudes spring from?
840
00:46:52,351 --> 00:46:55,855
An Englishman's home in his
castle is quite a good summary.
841
00:46:55,855 --> 00:46:57,857
But it does mean, yeah,
842
00:46:57,857 --> 00:46:59,859
you don't interfere with other people.
843
00:47:00,901 --> 00:47:02,244
You have relationships with them,
844
00:47:02,236 --> 00:47:06,116
of course, you fall in love
with them, you live with them,
845
00:47:06,115 --> 00:47:10,461
but beyond that network, you
don't bother other people.
846
00:47:10,453 --> 00:47:12,421
Let them do what they want to do.
847
00:47:12,413 --> 00:47:14,131
Well, that is wonderful isn't it?
848
00:47:15,124 --> 00:47:18,298
But if it means that it inhibits you
849
00:47:18,294 --> 00:47:20,262
and that you don't express yourself
850
00:47:20,254 --> 00:47:23,758
and you don't risk and you
don't stand up for yourself,
851
00:47:23,758 --> 00:47:24,850
then that's not good.
852
00:47:25,801 --> 00:47:27,144
- [Max] I kind of pity him.
853
00:47:27,136 --> 00:47:29,480
- [Prisoner] Germagnus Hershfield?
854
00:47:29,472 --> 00:47:31,725
- Oh yes, yes, I remember him.
855
00:47:31,724 --> 00:47:33,476
Berlin.
- Berlin.
856
00:47:33,476 --> 00:47:34,318
- He wanted to--
857
00:47:34,310 --> 00:47:35,903
- Make queers legal.
858
00:47:35,895 --> 00:47:37,522
- Yes, I remember.
859
00:47:37,521 --> 00:47:39,819
- People who saw Bent,
Martin Sherman's play
860
00:47:39,815 --> 00:47:42,659
about the ill treatment of gay people
861
00:47:43,611 --> 00:47:46,490
in the labour camps of the
Third Reich in the 1930s
862
00:47:47,656 --> 00:47:50,125
couldn't help applauding every night.
863
00:47:52,953 --> 00:47:55,502
When I was interviewed about it I said,
864
00:47:56,374 --> 00:48:00,675
"Oh, this was a play about
civil rights and humanity."
865
00:48:03,547 --> 00:48:06,391
I couldn't bring myself to say it was
866
00:48:06,384 --> 00:48:10,355
about the gay experience,
which it self-evidently is.
867
00:48:10,346 --> 00:48:12,474
I'm not suddenly turning
political, as it were.
868
00:48:12,473 --> 00:48:15,477
I'm not doing this play
because it says something
869
00:48:15,476 --> 00:48:16,898
that I passionately believe in.
870
00:48:16,894 --> 00:48:20,899
I'm afraid behaving as
a rather amoral actor
871
00:48:20,898 --> 00:48:23,617
who's seen a very good
part in a very good play.
872
00:48:23,609 --> 00:48:24,485
- [Interviewer] One of
the methods of the play
873
00:48:24,485 --> 00:48:27,113
is the change that overtakes
your character Max, isn't it?
874
00:48:27,113 --> 00:48:30,037
Who, initially, is more
concerned with survival,
875
00:48:30,032 --> 00:48:32,911
later in the play does protest
876
00:48:32,910 --> 00:48:35,504
and declare his homosexuality.
877
00:48:35,496 --> 00:48:37,498
I mean, is that an important
aspect of the character
878
00:48:37,498 --> 00:48:39,375
to you, in something about the play?
879
00:48:40,292 --> 00:48:43,216
- You know, all great parts in good plays
880
00:48:43,212 --> 00:48:47,342
are charting of a journey.
881
00:48:47,341 --> 00:48:50,185
If Martin were to claim
that it's mainly a play
882
00:48:50,177 --> 00:48:52,976
for homosexuals, about homosexuality,
883
00:48:52,972 --> 00:48:54,770
he would be denigrating his play.
884
00:48:54,765 --> 00:48:57,439
And that's not the case, I don't think.
885
00:48:57,435 --> 00:48:59,654
What woke me up was AIDS.
886
00:49:01,355 --> 00:49:02,652
- [News Anchor] The
sports council for Wales
887
00:49:02,648 --> 00:49:04,400
decided to fire the AIDS carriers
888
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:06,323
from this pool and the
National Sports Centre--
889
00:49:06,318 --> 00:49:07,194
- [Woman Anchor] Firemen too were worried
890
00:49:07,194 --> 00:49:08,161
about the dangers.
891
00:49:08,154 --> 00:49:11,078
They fear they could
contract AIDS in accidents
892
00:49:11,073 --> 00:49:13,451
from infected blood or from saliva
893
00:49:13,451 --> 00:49:14,998
when giving the kiss of life.
894
00:49:16,203 --> 00:49:17,671
- [Reporter] 4,000 doomed to die
895
00:49:17,663 --> 00:49:19,961
from AIDS over the next three years.
896
00:49:19,957 --> 00:49:23,712
- AIDS was the big,
big issue of the 1980s.
897
00:49:24,962 --> 00:49:26,054
(sighing)
898
00:49:26,046 --> 00:49:27,172
It was a killer.
899
00:49:28,132 --> 00:49:29,679
It was a worldwide killer.
900
00:49:31,010 --> 00:49:32,603
And it killed some of my friends,
901
00:49:32,595 --> 00:49:34,893
including my first boyfriend Curt.
902
00:49:36,765 --> 00:49:40,690
And those of us lucky
enough not to have the virus
903
00:49:40,686 --> 00:49:43,940
which led onto the disease
which led on automatically
904
00:49:43,939 --> 00:49:47,944
to death, seeing friends dying around us,
905
00:49:47,943 --> 00:49:49,195
felt we had to do something.
906
00:49:49,195 --> 00:49:53,075
And one thing I could do was
raise money for this centre
907
00:49:53,073 --> 00:49:55,701
that was being built called
the London Lighthouse.
908
00:49:58,120 --> 00:49:59,463
And they needed funds badly
909
00:49:59,455 --> 00:50:01,583
because they were
renovating an old school.
910
00:50:01,582 --> 00:50:04,051
And having just been
doing my one man show act
911
00:50:04,043 --> 00:50:07,047
of Shakespeare in America,
I thought if I put that on
912
00:50:07,046 --> 00:50:10,300
in London and don't charge
for it, we could make a lot
913
00:50:10,299 --> 00:50:13,018
of money quite quickly,
which is what was needed.
914
00:50:13,010 --> 00:50:17,265
The money from the box
office would go the next day
915
00:50:17,264 --> 00:50:19,437
to the site where it would pay the workers
916
00:50:19,433 --> 00:50:21,356
who were opening up this building.
917
00:50:21,352 --> 00:50:23,696
And I would go into the audience
with my bucket at the end
918
00:50:23,687 --> 00:50:26,110
and get further contributions.
919
00:50:26,106 --> 00:50:28,404
Carol Waters said could she have a word
920
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:30,528
and as I was collecting money she said
921
00:50:30,528 --> 00:50:32,280
didn't I know anything about Section 28?
922
00:50:32,279 --> 00:50:33,246
And I didn't.
923
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:36,038
But she gave me some literature
and I came back home here
924
00:50:36,033 --> 00:50:38,627
and read it and immediately
called her up and said,
925
00:50:38,619 --> 00:50:40,496
"What can I do to help?"
926
00:50:40,496 --> 00:50:45,718
Now, Section 28 was a
mean-spirited little law
927
00:50:46,168 --> 00:50:47,761
brought in as a private members bill
928
00:50:47,753 --> 00:50:49,551
but adopted by the
conservative government.
929
00:50:49,547 --> 00:50:51,049
- Children who need to be taught
930
00:50:51,048 --> 00:50:55,053
to respect traditional moral
values are being taught
931
00:50:55,052 --> 00:50:59,102
that they have an
inalienable right to be gay.
932
00:50:59,098 --> 00:51:02,022
All of those children are being cheated
933
00:51:02,017 --> 00:51:04,270
of a sound start in life.
934
00:51:04,270 --> 00:51:05,897
Yes, cheated.
935
00:51:05,896 --> 00:51:08,115
- Which said that a local authority
936
00:51:08,107 --> 00:51:10,155
could not promote homosexuality.
937
00:51:12,111 --> 00:51:15,490
An odd phrase, 'cause you
can't promote sexuality.
938
00:51:15,489 --> 00:51:17,742
But they meant it was a
topic that should go on
939
00:51:17,741 --> 00:51:21,541
not being talked about, and
certainly not in schools.
940
00:51:22,580 --> 00:51:27,802
Suddenly, I identified myself,
before everything else,
941
00:51:31,505 --> 00:51:35,305
as a gay man, and cared
about other gay men.
942
00:51:39,013 --> 00:51:41,232
Arguing the case against Section 28,
943
00:51:41,223 --> 00:51:44,944
I came out on a BBC discussion programme.
944
00:51:44,935 --> 00:51:46,733
- [Interviewer] So, you would
just like to see Clause 28
945
00:51:46,729 --> 00:51:47,696
disappear altogether?
946
00:51:47,688 --> 00:51:48,905
- Oh yes, I certainly would, yes.
947
00:51:48,897 --> 00:51:51,616
I think it's offensive to anyone who is,
948
00:51:51,609 --> 00:51:53,236
like myself, homosexual.
949
00:51:53,235 --> 00:51:56,455
Apart from the whole business of what can
950
00:51:56,447 --> 00:51:58,745
and cannot be taught to children.
951
00:51:58,741 --> 00:52:00,664
The programme would not be
broadcast for another two days
952
00:52:00,659 --> 00:52:02,661
and I had two days to tell people.
953
00:52:05,831 --> 00:52:07,583
They were all hugely supportive.
954
00:52:07,583 --> 00:52:09,005
Said they'd known for many years.
955
00:52:09,001 --> 00:52:11,629
And how glad they were
that I felt able now
956
00:52:11,629 --> 00:52:12,846
to be honest about it.
957
00:52:13,881 --> 00:52:19,103
The image I've often used is
of the removal of a weight
958
00:52:19,762 --> 00:52:21,856
on my shoulders that I
didn't realise was there.
959
00:52:21,847 --> 00:52:23,474
And it fell off.
960
00:52:23,474 --> 00:52:25,317
Immediately.
961
00:52:25,309 --> 00:52:28,358
I felt physically healthier.
962
00:52:28,354 --> 00:52:32,359
And the shyness which
I had felt all my life
963
00:52:32,358 --> 00:52:35,237
because I was hiding
the fact that I was gay,
964
00:52:35,235 --> 00:52:37,454
found it difficult to talk about,
965
00:52:37,446 --> 00:52:39,540
I could now walk in a room and be proud.
966
00:52:40,616 --> 00:52:42,493
I found myself in the
company of other people
967
00:52:42,493 --> 00:52:45,372
who wanted to make sure that that law
968
00:52:45,371 --> 00:52:47,248
or something like it
could never happen again,
969
00:52:47,247 --> 00:52:49,375
because the law was passed
and the law was changed
970
00:52:49,375 --> 00:52:50,797
and we did have Section 28.
971
00:52:51,669 --> 00:52:55,094
A new law which was clearly anti-gay.
972
00:52:57,508 --> 00:52:59,476
I've not been angry about
many things in my life,
973
00:52:59,468 --> 00:53:01,721
but I got angry about that.
974
00:53:01,720 --> 00:53:04,849
And it was a fruitful
act because it was a spur
975
00:53:06,642 --> 00:53:09,612
to use my methods of communication
976
00:53:09,603 --> 00:53:14,780
and my ability to communicate and my fame.
977
00:53:16,694 --> 00:53:21,791
Clause 28 is in part designed
to keep us in our place.
978
00:53:22,658 --> 00:53:24,080
But it didn't work with me.
979
00:53:25,452 --> 00:53:26,669
Well do what you can, I think.
980
00:53:26,662 --> 00:53:29,711
If you want to join a
group, go and join a group.
981
00:53:29,707 --> 00:53:31,630
If there's anything
you can do on your own,
982
00:53:31,625 --> 00:53:32,501
do it on your own.
983
00:53:32,501 --> 00:53:34,048
Do whatever you can.
984
00:53:34,044 --> 00:53:36,593
And in doing that, come
out, whether you're gay,
985
00:53:36,588 --> 00:53:39,091
lesbian, or straight, that doesn't matter.
986
00:53:39,091 --> 00:53:41,594
We all have to come
out against Section 28.
987
00:53:41,593 --> 00:53:43,766
If you have to abseil into
the House of Lords, do that.
988
00:53:43,762 --> 00:53:46,891
But it's the whole spectrum of our society
989
00:53:46,890 --> 00:53:48,892
which is affected by it,
because gays and lesbians
990
00:53:48,892 --> 00:53:51,736
are everywhere and they must
be seen to be everywhere.
991
00:53:51,729 --> 00:53:55,359
Being vocal, being
sensible, being indignant.
992
00:53:55,357 --> 00:53:57,405
And if you can do it with
a smile in your heart,
993
00:53:57,401 --> 00:53:58,493
we'll get there quicker, I think.
994
00:53:58,485 --> 00:54:02,240
And I went to other friends
like Michael Cashwin,
995
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:04,958
an actor who had come out
about the same time as I did
996
00:54:04,950 --> 00:54:05,917
over Section 28.
997
00:54:06,827 --> 00:54:09,501
And he'd had the same
idea that there should be
998
00:54:09,496 --> 00:54:12,090
an organisation to
prevent anything happening
999
00:54:12,082 --> 00:54:12,958
like this again.
1000
00:54:12,958 --> 00:54:14,050
There should be a permanent lobby.
1001
00:54:14,042 --> 00:54:17,216
It should be a professional lobby.
1002
00:54:17,212 --> 00:54:18,213
It should be paid for.
1003
00:54:18,213 --> 00:54:20,807
Money could be raised to make it happen.
1004
00:54:22,134 --> 00:54:25,183
And through that lobby, we
would educate the public
1005
00:54:26,054 --> 00:54:29,649
at a time when the press
didn't talk about gays.
1006
00:54:31,185 --> 00:54:32,482
Certainly not positively.
1007
00:54:33,353 --> 00:54:36,072
So early on in setting up Stonewall,
1008
00:54:37,357 --> 00:54:40,657
it was a group, and it was
10 lesbians and 10 gay men
1009
00:54:40,652 --> 00:54:43,326
who eventually came
together, gender parity.
1010
00:54:43,322 --> 00:54:44,915
Founded on principle.
1011
00:54:44,907 --> 00:54:47,126
And here I was, now in a committee
1012
00:54:47,117 --> 00:54:48,619
hoping to make things happen.
1013
00:54:50,204 --> 00:54:52,923
It felt like the Actors Company again.
1014
00:54:52,915 --> 00:54:54,417
We were all on the same side.
1015
00:54:56,168 --> 00:54:58,136
And then I gave up an awful lot of time
1016
00:54:58,128 --> 00:55:01,302
helping to start Stonewall
and imagining how it might be
1017
00:55:01,298 --> 00:55:03,266
and raising funds, principle.
1018
00:55:07,805 --> 00:55:10,433
My contribution wasn't much.
1019
00:55:10,432 --> 00:55:11,900
I didn't understand the law.
1020
00:55:11,892 --> 00:55:14,645
I didn't understand how
to manipulate the press,
1021
00:55:14,645 --> 00:55:16,522
which you have to do.
1022
00:55:16,522 --> 00:55:18,445
- [Reporter] Sir Ian
McKellen's visit to Number 10
1023
00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:20,613
is believed to be the
first time a prime minister
1024
00:55:20,609 --> 00:55:22,202
has had an official meeting with an actor
1025
00:55:22,194 --> 00:55:24,322
that is for homosexual rights.
1026
00:55:24,321 --> 00:55:28,292
- I directed and devised The Equality Show
1027
00:55:29,409 --> 00:55:34,631
with Elton John and Sting
performed together for us
1028
00:55:35,833 --> 00:55:38,052
at the Albert Hall for free.
1029
00:55:38,043 --> 00:55:40,887
Raising funds for Stonewall, awareness
1030
00:55:40,879 --> 00:55:42,973
about the presence of gay people,
1031
00:55:42,965 --> 00:55:47,015
suddenly the subject matter of being gay
1032
00:55:47,010 --> 00:55:49,729
was in the public domain.
1033
00:55:49,721 --> 00:55:52,725
- In Britain, it is lawful
for men and women to have sex
1034
00:55:52,724 --> 00:55:55,648
at 60, but men can't
have sex with other men
1035
00:55:55,644 --> 00:55:56,816
until they're 21.
1036
00:55:56,812 --> 00:55:59,861
This, say homosexual pressure
groups, is an anomaly,
1037
00:55:59,857 --> 00:56:03,077
and it's time to equalise
the age of consent.
1038
00:56:03,068 --> 00:56:04,615
- I think the majority
of people in Britain
1039
00:56:04,611 --> 00:56:08,491
don't want this to become
a more homosexual society.
1040
00:56:08,490 --> 00:56:10,538
There has been a campaign for a long time
1041
00:56:10,534 --> 00:56:13,538
to try to make homosexuality
perfectly acceptable
1042
00:56:13,537 --> 00:56:14,709
within society.
1043
00:56:14,705 --> 00:56:15,957
We have it in the media.
1044
00:56:15,956 --> 00:56:17,173
We have it with prominent people
1045
00:56:17,165 --> 00:56:18,633
like yourself coming forward.
1046
00:56:18,625 --> 00:56:20,969
I don't think it is succeeding.
1047
00:56:20,961 --> 00:56:23,714
That is to say, I don't think
that the majority of people
1048
00:56:23,714 --> 00:56:26,809
1049
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:28,894
We don't want to go down the line
1050
00:56:28,886 --> 00:56:32,311
of having more homosexuality
1051
00:56:32,306 --> 00:56:35,401
because young people are
particularly vulnerable.
1052
00:56:35,392 --> 00:56:37,736
The majority of people
are still very strongly
1053
00:56:37,728 --> 00:56:40,481
opposed to spreading homosexuality,
1054
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:44,610
that they're not in favour
of persecuting homosexuals.
1055
00:56:44,610 --> 00:56:46,237
- Well, you're repeating yourself.
1056
00:56:46,236 --> 00:56:48,580
And again, it's the view of the majority
1057
00:56:48,572 --> 00:56:52,748
against a minority and I don't approve it.
1058
00:56:52,743 --> 00:56:56,168
But do please read the BMA report.
1059
00:56:56,163 --> 00:57:00,088
And your idea that somehow
people of 16 and 17
1060
00:57:00,083 --> 00:57:02,632
are vulnerable, was that your word?
1061
00:57:02,628 --> 00:57:04,505
Undecided about their sexuality.
1062
00:57:04,504 --> 00:57:06,632
No, sexuality is fixed.
1063
00:57:06,632 --> 00:57:09,226
Everyone agrees, which is why
the BMA has changed its mind,
1064
00:57:09,217 --> 00:57:10,844
before puberty.
1065
00:57:10,844 --> 00:57:12,517
Now that's not to say that young people
1066
00:57:12,512 --> 00:57:15,231
are not confused about their sexuality,
1067
00:57:15,223 --> 00:57:17,442
and no wonder when they
hear, with respect,
1068
00:57:17,434 --> 00:57:19,687
1069
00:57:19,686 --> 00:57:20,938
About it, and didn't walk about
1070
00:57:20,938 --> 00:57:23,441
in the streets protesting
that they were gay.
1071
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:26,410
You know, it took me 49 years
to be honest about myself.
1072
00:57:26,401 --> 00:57:28,824
And your arguments seem to be in favour
1073
00:57:28,820 --> 00:57:32,575
of people being gay but
not talking about it.
1074
00:57:32,574 --> 00:57:35,168
Let's keep it to themselves
and don't spread it.
1075
00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:36,412
No one wants to spread it.
1076
00:57:36,411 --> 00:57:37,958
It exists in society.
1077
00:57:37,955 --> 00:57:39,081
Always has, always will.
1078
00:57:39,081 --> 00:57:42,085
It takes two heterosexuals
to make a homosexual.
1079
00:57:42,084 --> 00:57:43,176
And so it carries on.
1080
00:57:43,168 --> 00:57:45,341
Why not just be at ease with it?
1081
00:57:45,337 --> 00:57:48,637
Admit there is a variety of sexuality.
1082
00:57:48,632 --> 00:57:49,929
1083
00:57:49,925 --> 00:57:51,643
I'm not trying to stop you have children.
1084
00:57:51,635 --> 00:57:54,058
I'm not trying to do
anything to disrupt anyone.
1085
00:57:54,054 --> 00:57:55,977
I just want some freedom for myself,
1086
00:57:55,973 --> 00:57:57,725
and that's the argument
I make on the behalf
1087
00:57:57,724 --> 00:57:59,647
of the 16 year old that I used to be.
1088
00:58:01,770 --> 00:58:06,947
And if I became known as that gay actor,
1089
00:58:08,151 --> 00:58:09,368
I didn't mind at all.
1090
00:58:11,655 --> 00:58:15,660
I was a communicator, I was
an actor, I was a performer.
1091
00:58:19,746 --> 00:58:22,499
And I felt I had found my
place in British society.
1092
00:58:24,501 --> 00:58:26,378
I didn't have sex until
I was an undergraduate
1093
00:58:26,378 --> 00:58:28,722
and I was just finishing
Cambridge when I fell
1094
00:58:28,714 --> 00:58:31,809
in love with a beautiful boy from Kansas
1095
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:34,974
who was about to become
a professional actor.
1096
00:58:34,970 --> 00:58:39,817
Curt and I and at last I felt
I had joined the human race.
1097
00:58:39,808 --> 00:58:40,730
But not entirely,
1098
00:58:40,726 --> 00:58:44,822
because still we didn't
talk about being gay.
1099
00:58:44,813 --> 00:58:49,034
The idea of gay politics or any advance
1100
00:58:49,026 --> 00:58:52,121
in gay rights just wasn't on the cards.
1101
00:58:52,112 --> 00:58:56,743
And we were forced to live
in this odd no man's land
1102
00:58:56,742 --> 00:59:01,964
of loving where you could and
no clubs, no bars, nothing.
1103
00:59:05,834 --> 00:59:07,711
And one of the reasons I
became a professional actor
1104
00:59:07,711 --> 00:59:10,214
was that I'd heard that
there were gay people
1105
00:59:10,213 --> 00:59:12,307
in the professional theatre.
1106
00:59:12,299 --> 00:59:14,893
(audience laughing)
1107
00:59:14,885 --> 00:59:16,979
And it turned out to be the case.
1108
00:59:16,970 --> 00:59:19,314
(laughing)
1109
00:59:22,768 --> 00:59:26,363
The trouble about looking
back on even your own life
1110
00:59:26,354 --> 00:59:31,576
and who knows it better than
one's self, and I get it wrong.
1111
00:59:31,610 --> 00:59:33,157
My impression was that I always wanted
1112
00:59:33,153 --> 00:59:36,623
to be a theatre actor and I was
happy being a theatre actor.
1113
00:59:36,615 --> 00:59:40,791
I had no ambitions to become a film actor.
1114
00:59:40,786 --> 00:59:42,584
Well, my friends tell
me that wasn't the case
1115
00:59:42,579 --> 00:59:45,583
and I was always bellyaching
about why has Tom Courtney
1116
00:59:45,582 --> 00:59:48,176
got this part, why is
Anthony Hopkins in films now?
1117
00:59:48,168 --> 00:59:49,385
Why can't I be...
1118
00:59:51,379 --> 00:59:53,973
I think I would judge the films I've made
1119
00:59:53,965 --> 00:59:57,720
as before Richard Ill and after.
1120
00:59:59,554 --> 01:00:02,398
After I had the confidence.
1121
01:00:02,390 --> 01:00:05,985
When we were doing King Lear
and Richard Ill in America
1122
01:00:05,977 --> 01:00:10,153
over I think five or six
cities across the States
1123
01:00:10,148 --> 01:00:14,028
on the suggestion of Richard
Eyre who had directed the play.
1124
01:00:14,986 --> 01:00:17,830
When I asked him, "Couldn't we film it?"
1125
01:00:17,823 --> 01:00:19,996
I started writing the film script.
1126
01:00:23,161 --> 01:00:25,505
And I had to start being a film producer,
1127
01:00:25,497 --> 01:00:27,716
something I had never done before.
1128
01:00:27,707 --> 01:00:28,629
And will never do again.
1129
01:00:28,625 --> 01:00:31,344
It took two years of persuading people
1130
01:00:31,336 --> 01:00:34,681
that even on a limited
budget of $6 million,
1131
01:00:36,299 --> 01:00:38,051
we could ever make the money back.
1132
01:00:39,803 --> 01:00:42,807
I used to get very, very
nervous on a film set
1133
01:00:42,806 --> 01:00:44,058
because of my insecurity
1134
01:00:44,057 --> 01:00:46,025
of not having done much film-making.
1135
01:00:47,686 --> 01:00:51,441
In preparation for a rather
nerve-wracking business
1136
01:00:51,439 --> 01:00:54,158
of starring in a movie, I visited,
1137
01:00:54,151 --> 01:00:57,701
as I put it at the time,
other people's films.
1138
01:00:58,572 --> 01:01:01,075
I just got to see how it worked.
1139
01:01:01,074 --> 01:01:04,169
What it was like to be
in front of the camera.
1140
01:01:04,161 --> 01:01:05,037
(sighing)
1141
01:01:05,036 --> 01:01:06,834
- We haven't got any
business done tonight.
1142
01:01:06,830 --> 01:01:09,333
- [Stephen] Meet John
Profumo, Minister for War.
1143
01:01:10,250 --> 01:01:11,752
- One day, I suddenly
realised all these people
1144
01:01:11,751 --> 01:01:14,630
behind the camera who had made me nervous,
1145
01:01:15,630 --> 01:01:18,474
were all there not to observe
and criticise and comment
1146
01:01:18,466 --> 01:01:21,845
behind their hands, but to help.
1147
01:01:24,389 --> 01:01:26,437
The director, looking.
1148
01:01:26,433 --> 01:01:27,605
The cameraman, looking.
1149
01:01:27,601 --> 01:01:28,853
Sound man, hearing.
1150
01:01:30,562 --> 01:01:32,235
Makeup, checking.
1151
01:01:32,230 --> 01:01:33,857
Costume people, looking.
1152
01:01:35,567 --> 01:01:38,787
All with their own
expertise, all contributing.
1153
01:01:38,778 --> 01:01:40,576
And you're just the
centre of their attention
1154
01:01:40,572 --> 01:01:42,791
because everybody wants
you to get it right.
1155
01:01:42,782 --> 01:01:44,034
Everyone is supportive.
1156
01:01:44,034 --> 01:01:47,755
They're not being critical.
1157
01:01:47,746 --> 01:01:50,590
They're not observing, they're part of it.
1158
01:01:53,335 --> 01:01:54,678
And that was a revelation.
1159
01:01:54,669 --> 01:01:57,013
And now I find being on a studio one
1160
01:01:57,005 --> 01:01:58,723
of the most comfortable places
1161
01:01:58,715 --> 01:02:01,719
because everybody wants it to be good.
1162
01:02:01,718 --> 01:02:04,642
Everyone's there together doing it.
1163
01:02:04,638 --> 01:02:07,312
And I thought before they
were the enemy really,
1164
01:02:07,307 --> 01:02:09,105
rather than the friend.
1165
01:02:10,143 --> 01:02:12,566
And the camera, well,
you just forget about it.
1166
01:02:13,813 --> 01:02:17,238
You can't forget about it
but you know it's there
1167
01:02:17,234 --> 01:02:18,656
but it's another friend.
1168
01:02:21,446 --> 01:02:24,120
The rest was easy because
I knew the part backwards.
1169
01:02:24,115 --> 01:02:26,959
I knew what the production should be.
1170
01:02:27,827 --> 01:02:29,170
I'd helped in the casting.
1171
01:02:29,162 --> 01:02:30,755
We had a wonderfully strong cast of people
1172
01:02:30,747 --> 01:02:33,000
who were very experienced in Shakespeare.
1173
01:02:34,918 --> 01:02:38,263
And who were intrigued by the
idea of putting it on film.
1174
01:02:38,255 --> 01:02:41,008
Richard Ill comes out, I'm
playing the leading part.
1175
01:02:41,007 --> 01:02:46,013
I've got a credit as producer
and as screenplay writer.
1176
01:02:46,137 --> 01:02:49,687
And it got good reviews
so oh hello, Ian McKellen,
1177
01:02:51,434 --> 01:02:53,277
does Shakespeare on film.
1178
01:02:55,814 --> 01:02:56,940
Oh, he's a film actor.
1179
01:02:58,149 --> 01:03:01,244
- Why I can smile and
murder while I smile.
1180
01:03:05,532 --> 01:03:08,081
And wet my cheeks with artificial tears
1181
01:03:08,076 --> 01:03:10,670
and frame my face to all occasions.
1182
01:03:16,084 --> 01:03:18,382
And therefore, since I
cannot prove a lover,
1183
01:03:18,378 --> 01:03:21,723
I'm determined to prove a villain
1184
01:03:21,715 --> 01:03:25,436
and hate the idle
pleasures of these deaths.
1185
01:03:26,845 --> 01:03:28,438
- Theatrical performance is appropriate
1186
01:03:28,430 --> 01:03:32,731
because he's a theatrical
showoff, Richard III.
1187
01:03:32,726 --> 01:03:35,605
So a certain presentation was appropriate.
1188
01:03:37,897 --> 01:03:40,446
Same with Magneto to a certain extent.
1189
01:03:40,442 --> 01:03:42,536
Gandalf's a bit of a showoff as well.
1190
01:03:42,527 --> 01:03:45,497
Those are the parts that I'm
perhaps the best at playing.
1191
01:03:46,990 --> 01:03:48,788
- Thank you.
- The pleasure is mine.
1192
01:03:48,783 --> 01:03:49,955
James Whale.
1193
01:03:52,037 --> 01:03:56,008
- James Whale, I found a
very easy part to play.
1194
01:03:57,334 --> 01:04:00,008
We had to shoot so much footage each day
1195
01:04:00,003 --> 01:04:02,973
in order to get through in the time
1196
01:04:02,964 --> 01:04:04,637
that the investment could buy.
1197
01:04:06,885 --> 01:04:09,729
At the beginning of a long
speech that I was delivering
1198
01:04:09,721 --> 01:04:12,895
to Brendan at the end of a long day,
1199
01:04:12,891 --> 01:04:16,270
I think with about half an hour to go
1200
01:04:16,269 --> 01:04:19,899
1201
01:04:19,898 --> 01:04:23,493
So that work has to stop,
the director Bill Condon
1202
01:04:23,485 --> 01:04:25,487
said to me, "lan, that's the situation.
1203
01:04:25,487 --> 01:04:28,491
"And you've probably only got time
1204
01:04:28,490 --> 01:04:30,458
"to do the speech twice
and it's a long speech.
1205
01:04:30,450 --> 01:04:31,542
"You might want to do it more than that.
1206
01:04:31,534 --> 01:04:34,253
"If you do, just keep speaking.
1207
01:04:34,245 --> 01:04:36,498
"If you stop and come
to the end of the speech
1208
01:04:36,498 --> 01:04:40,674
"and I say cut, that'll be the signal
1209
01:04:40,668 --> 01:04:43,512
"for the plugs to be
pulled and for work to stop
1210
01:04:43,505 --> 01:04:45,553
"and you'll never get another chance.
1211
01:04:45,548 --> 01:04:48,222
"That's the nature of film,
it's your last chance."
1212
01:04:51,388 --> 01:04:53,311
Well, that's how I got through the speech.
1213
01:04:53,306 --> 01:04:55,934
I did it a number of
times and I didn't stop.
1214
01:04:55,934 --> 01:04:57,527
- And you just sit there.
1215
01:04:57,519 --> 01:04:59,112
You let me talk.
1216
01:04:59,979 --> 01:05:03,028
Yes, the poor old man you think
that I'm the crazy old poof.
1217
01:05:03,024 --> 01:05:04,901
Why are you here?
1218
01:05:04,901 --> 01:05:05,948
Let's get this straight.
1219
01:05:05,944 --> 01:05:08,367
What do you want from me?
1220
01:05:08,363 --> 01:05:10,115
- I want to be a model, remember?
1221
01:05:10,115 --> 01:05:10,991
- Well of course I remember.
1222
01:05:10,990 --> 01:05:12,992
What do you think I am, so fucking senile?
1223
01:05:24,754 --> 01:05:25,630
- Mr. Whale?
1224
01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:32,680
- How I could've been so stupid, stupid.
1225
01:05:32,679 --> 01:05:34,181
- Mr. Whale, you all right?
1226
01:05:39,144 --> 01:05:41,522
- What was I thinking about?
1227
01:05:42,939 --> 01:05:44,691
- The day I was nominated for an Oscar,
1228
01:05:44,691 --> 01:05:48,571
I was playing in a repertoire of plays
1229
01:05:48,570 --> 01:05:52,074
for the West Yorkshire
Playhouse, which is in Leeds
1230
01:05:52,073 --> 01:05:53,620
in the North of England and I had to do
1231
01:05:53,616 --> 01:05:56,745
all my interviews on a telephone line
1232
01:05:56,744 --> 01:05:58,712
in between performances.
1233
01:05:58,705 --> 01:06:02,255
So I think life was going on as usual.
1234
01:06:02,250 --> 01:06:05,220
I wasn't making any assumptions.
1235
01:06:05,211 --> 01:06:09,057
The problem is, of course,
once you're up for an Oscar
1236
01:06:09,048 --> 01:06:12,143
or a Golden Globe even
or a BAFTA or something,
1237
01:06:12,135 --> 01:06:14,263
you are encouraged by
the publicity department
1238
01:06:14,262 --> 01:06:17,106
for whatever you're being nominated for
1239
01:06:17,098 --> 01:06:18,566
to do all the interviews.
1240
01:06:18,558 --> 01:06:23,405
To go around almost actively
touting for the vote
1241
01:06:23,396 --> 01:06:26,115
of the various members
of these organisations.
1242
01:06:27,317 --> 01:06:28,443
That's a bit unseemly.
1243
01:06:31,237 --> 01:06:33,160
And all the actors know it.
1244
01:06:33,156 --> 01:06:36,877
And they feel embarrassed even
as they're holding their hand
1245
01:06:36,868 --> 01:06:39,587
up and saying, "Look at me,
look at me, look at me."
1246
01:06:39,579 --> 01:06:42,708
(audience applause)
1247
01:06:43,750 --> 01:06:46,503
And the success of that
film, I think has given me
1248
01:06:46,503 --> 01:06:48,881
as much pleasure as
anything else in my life.
1249
01:06:49,964 --> 01:06:53,264
It's fun playing man who once lived.
1250
01:06:53,259 --> 01:06:54,806
You have more scope, don't you,
1251
01:06:54,802 --> 01:06:56,145
if you're playing a character
1252
01:06:56,137 --> 01:06:58,014
that is entirely fictionalised.
1253
01:06:59,724 --> 01:07:03,319
I thought, at the time, I
wasn't very good as Magneto,
1254
01:07:03,311 --> 01:07:06,781
and I've had that confirmed
for me seeing the films.
1255
01:07:06,773 --> 01:07:10,778
If you look at the comics,
Magneto is usually drawn
1256
01:07:10,777 --> 01:07:12,950
from a low vantage point.
1257
01:07:12,946 --> 01:07:15,040
His legs wide apart.
1258
01:07:15,031 --> 01:07:19,912
A superhuman body of
muscle and sinew and power.
1259
01:07:19,911 --> 01:07:22,664
But then there's me, Ian
McKellen, who (chuckling)...
1260
01:07:25,625 --> 01:07:29,050
I did ask for a suit that was made for me
1261
01:07:29,045 --> 01:07:32,345
which had false muscles in it
and they used to put that on
1262
01:07:32,340 --> 01:07:35,264
diligently each day to
give myself wide thighs
1263
01:07:35,260 --> 01:07:36,807
and calves and pecs.
1264
01:07:37,971 --> 01:07:42,602
Becoming cartoon characters isn't easy.
1265
01:07:42,600 --> 01:07:44,147
And we weren't helped by the costumes
1266
01:07:44,143 --> 01:07:46,145
in which were costumes that fitted a film
1267
01:07:46,145 --> 01:07:49,524
rather than fitted the
outrageous nature of the story.
1268
01:07:56,864 --> 01:07:59,208
(grunting)
1269
01:08:03,871 --> 01:08:06,294
- Mr. Laurio, never
trust a beautiful woman,
1270
01:08:06,291 --> 01:08:08,419
especially one who's interested in you.
1271
01:08:10,336 --> 01:08:12,304
- Those stories mean something,
1272
01:08:12,297 --> 01:08:14,095
and I think that's what separates our,
1273
01:08:14,090 --> 01:08:17,185
perhaps, X-Men from the other comic books.
1274
01:08:17,176 --> 01:08:20,976
Superman, the Hulk, Spider-Man,
1275
01:08:20,972 --> 01:08:23,646
I'd say even James Bond,
are all the same people.
1276
01:08:24,976 --> 01:08:29,903
Wimps who change their underclothes
and become superheroes.
1277
01:08:30,815 --> 01:08:32,158
Discover their inner life.
1278
01:08:35,737 --> 01:08:37,284
That's not Magneto.
1279
01:08:37,280 --> 01:08:42,502
Magneto is a political
warrior, clear-sighted,
1280
01:08:43,661 --> 01:08:48,087
pained, anguished, determined character.
1281
01:08:49,208 --> 01:08:50,551
Really well worth playing.
1282
01:08:52,003 --> 01:08:53,801
And in any civil rights movement,
1283
01:08:53,796 --> 01:08:56,299
there is an argument between
the Magneto character
1284
01:08:56,299 --> 01:08:58,427
who says we bloody well
fight to the bitter end
1285
01:08:58,426 --> 01:09:01,771
and are proud of our
difference and if necessary
1286
01:09:01,763 --> 01:09:04,357
we'll be violent in our
own defence, a sense that,
1287
01:09:04,349 --> 01:09:06,943
perhaps, our difference makes us superior.
1288
01:09:06,934 --> 01:09:09,687
Well, that may be the Malcolm
X view of the black situation
1289
01:09:09,687 --> 01:09:13,533
or Martin Luther King the Professor X,
1290
01:09:13,524 --> 01:09:15,947
Patrick Stewart's character,
who says let's learn
1291
01:09:15,943 --> 01:09:20,073
how we can contribute to
society, be a part of it.
1292
01:09:20,073 --> 01:09:20,949
Fit in.
1293
01:09:21,949 --> 01:09:26,580
Be proud of ourselves but
care about people in society
1294
01:09:26,579 --> 01:09:27,626
beyond ourselves.
1295
01:09:28,748 --> 01:09:31,092
So, those are stories worth telling.
1296
01:09:31,084 --> 01:09:32,210
It's not just adventure.
1297
01:09:32,210 --> 01:09:33,553
It's not just fantasy.
1298
01:09:33,544 --> 01:09:35,842
- The war is still coming, Charles,
1299
01:09:35,838 --> 01:09:40,560
and I intend to fight it,
by any means necessary.
1300
01:09:42,762 --> 01:09:46,187
- And I will always be there, old friend.
1301
01:09:48,267 --> 01:09:51,146
(dramatic music)
1302
01:09:53,106 --> 01:09:58,112
- Storytelling is so
basic to human activity,
1303
01:09:59,153 --> 01:10:02,202
as I suppose there isn't
a nationality in the world
1304
01:10:02,198 --> 01:10:05,577
in which young children
aren't told stories.
1305
01:10:07,078 --> 01:10:08,876
And stories bring human beings together.
1306
01:10:08,871 --> 01:10:10,043
- [Frodo] You're late.
1307
01:10:10,915 --> 01:10:14,169
- A wizard is never late, Frodo Baggins.
1308
01:10:15,461 --> 01:10:19,182
Nor is he early, he arrives
precisely when he means to.
1309
01:10:26,723 --> 01:10:29,067
(laughing)
1310
01:10:30,351 --> 01:10:32,069
- It's one of the things
I enjoy most about film
1311
01:10:32,061 --> 01:10:34,655
is the reality of the set.
1312
01:10:35,732 --> 01:10:37,575
In the theatre, it's all pretend,
1313
01:10:37,567 --> 01:10:40,366
it's all make-believe, it's
all hardboard and canvas.
1314
01:10:41,320 --> 01:10:44,790
Nothing what it seems,
which has its own delight.
1315
01:10:46,409 --> 01:10:51,586
But you're on a set in Lord
of the Rings, and there it is.
1316
01:10:52,790 --> 01:10:55,134
One day, we were lifted
up in a helicopter.
1317
01:10:55,126 --> 01:10:58,551
I think I was the only
actor, the rest were doubles.
1318
01:10:58,546 --> 01:11:00,514
And certainly the pony wasn't a real pony,
1319
01:11:00,506 --> 01:11:03,555
it was a boy and his
girlfriend, that double.
1320
01:11:03,551 --> 01:11:05,269
They had a hard time
because we were dropped
1321
01:11:05,261 --> 01:11:09,186
by the helicopter onto
virgin snow on a high ridge.
1322
01:11:09,182 --> 01:11:14,404
And you see this poor pony
try to walk very, very slowly.
1323
01:11:15,146 --> 01:11:16,819
Fall over into the snow.
1324
01:11:16,814 --> 01:11:19,158
And we were abandoned by the helicopter,
1325
01:11:19,150 --> 01:11:21,027
in which was a camera,
1326
01:11:21,027 --> 01:11:23,530
and they filmed our progress up the ridge.
1327
01:11:25,406 --> 01:11:27,784
I think only once because
we had left our footprints
1328
01:11:27,784 --> 01:11:30,458
in the snow and therefore
couldn't do it twice.
1329
01:11:34,332 --> 01:11:38,553
As we're going longer and I'm
going snow up to my knees,
1330
01:11:39,754 --> 01:11:41,301
with a perilous drop on one side
1331
01:11:41,297 --> 01:11:46,519
and a bit of a peak at the
other, I could be on Everest.
1332
01:11:48,763 --> 01:11:50,857
It's about as far away from
green screen as you can get.
1333
01:11:50,848 --> 01:11:52,600
We were there.
1334
01:11:53,726 --> 01:11:55,194
Constantly, we were there.
1335
01:11:55,186 --> 01:12:00,363
And you ask any of the actors,
there were other locations.
1336
01:12:02,276 --> 01:12:03,778
I remember in The Hobbit other locations
1337
01:12:03,778 --> 01:12:06,281
we were, again, lifted up by helicopter.
1338
01:12:06,280 --> 01:12:08,703
I had to spend a day in the sunshine
1339
01:12:08,699 --> 01:12:11,168
with a fantastic view
over some lake or other
1340
01:12:11,160 --> 01:12:14,539
and surrounded by mountains.
1341
01:12:14,539 --> 01:12:15,415
Bliss.
1342
01:12:15,414 --> 01:12:20,261
It was the lap of luxury
in the wildest of settings.
1343
01:12:22,296 --> 01:12:26,346
I was doing an early scene
when all the dwarves,
1344
01:12:26,342 --> 01:12:31,564
small, plus Bilbo, small,
arrive in Bilbo's house,
1345
01:12:31,973 --> 01:12:34,067
and big Gandalf is there too.
1346
01:12:34,058 --> 01:12:35,901
So I had to look bigger
than the rest of them.
1347
01:12:35,893 --> 01:12:37,566
We rehearsed the scene.
1348
01:12:37,562 --> 01:12:39,860
I met a group of actors
who I didn't really know
1349
01:12:39,856 --> 01:12:41,608
in full makeup.
1350
01:12:41,607 --> 01:12:44,656
I then left their set
and went into my own set
1351
01:12:44,652 --> 01:12:48,452
which was made of green so
that it could be removed,
1352
01:12:48,447 --> 01:12:52,668
and a camera mirrored, it was
then slaved, is the phrase,
1353
01:12:52,660 --> 01:12:54,412
to the camera that was photographing
1354
01:12:54,412 --> 01:12:56,085
the dwarves at the same time.
1355
01:12:56,080 --> 01:12:57,753
So these cameras moved at the same time.
1356
01:12:57,748 --> 01:13:00,342
Their lenses moved in and out.
1357
01:13:01,502 --> 01:13:02,594
Mine was done by a robot.
1358
01:13:02,587 --> 01:13:04,885
It was just me and a moving camera.
1359
01:13:06,841 --> 01:13:07,808
Where should I look?
1360
01:13:07,800 --> 01:13:09,347
'Cause I'm meant to be talking to people
1361
01:13:09,343 --> 01:13:11,311
who are on another part of the studio.
1362
01:13:12,263 --> 01:13:14,140
Well, they'd obligingly put photographs
1363
01:13:14,140 --> 01:13:16,984
of each of the actors on stands.
1364
01:13:18,603 --> 01:13:21,402
And whoever was talking,
the light flashed.
1365
01:13:21,397 --> 01:13:24,822
The trouble was that these
were photographs of the actors,
1366
01:13:24,817 --> 01:13:26,819
not of the characters that I had just met.
1367
01:13:26,819 --> 01:13:28,412
I didn't know who anybody was.
1368
01:13:28,404 --> 01:13:30,498
That was green screen with a vengeance.
1369
01:13:31,449 --> 01:13:34,248
And at the end of the day, my head fell
1370
01:13:35,411 --> 01:13:37,379
so that my mouth was very
close to the microphone
1371
01:13:37,371 --> 01:13:42,002
which was hidden in my
costume and I said to myself,
1372
01:13:42,001 --> 01:13:45,175
"This is not why I became an actor."
1373
01:13:45,171 --> 01:13:46,423
And I was quite tearful.
1374
01:13:47,548 --> 01:13:50,017
This was broadcast
across the entire studio.
1375
01:13:51,260 --> 01:13:53,854
I honestly cannot remember what this
1376
01:13:53,846 --> 01:13:55,314
has to do with the story at all, so...
1377
01:13:55,306 --> 01:13:57,104
- [Peter] You don't really need to.
1378
01:13:57,099 --> 01:14:00,569
- All right, so I'm just
looking vaguely apprehensive.
1379
01:14:00,561 --> 01:14:03,781
- [Peter] Vaguely apprehensive
and weary at the trees.
1380
01:14:03,773 --> 01:14:06,947
This is potentially your first
shot in Return of the King.
1381
01:14:12,531 --> 01:14:13,578
And action.
1382
01:14:13,574 --> 01:14:16,623
(eerie epic music)
1383
01:14:19,038 --> 01:14:21,382
- There are very few
actors who have been in two
1384
01:14:21,374 --> 01:14:24,218
what are called franchises, two series,
1385
01:14:25,127 --> 01:14:26,674
popular, very popular movies.
1386
01:14:27,630 --> 01:14:29,007
I was ready for it.
1387
01:14:29,006 --> 01:14:30,132
I wasn't phased by it.
1388
01:14:30,132 --> 01:14:33,682
I was in my 50s or even older.
1389
01:14:34,887 --> 01:14:37,060
On gay issues, I had been a spokesperson.
1390
01:14:37,056 --> 01:14:38,353
Now I could be a spokesperson
1391
01:14:38,349 --> 01:14:39,441
for the films I was involved in.
1392
01:14:39,433 --> 01:14:40,810
I was used to doing interviews.
1393
01:14:40,810 --> 01:14:42,983
I was used to making the case.
1394
01:14:42,979 --> 01:14:45,198
So that was a bit of
luck not to become famous
1395
01:14:45,189 --> 01:14:47,157
and successful in films
when I was too young
1396
01:14:47,149 --> 01:14:49,902
to quite know what I was doing.
1397
01:14:53,906 --> 01:14:57,831
And very pleasing to me that
it was an openly gay man
1398
01:14:57,827 --> 01:14:58,703
who was playing Gandalf,
1399
01:14:58,703 --> 01:15:01,627
an openly gay man who was playing Magneto.
1400
01:15:02,581 --> 01:15:04,003
There it was, everybody knew.
1401
01:15:04,000 --> 01:15:06,344
A few people said we can't
have Gandalf the Gay,
1402
01:15:06,335 --> 01:15:07,803
but apparently you could.
1403
01:15:07,795 --> 01:15:08,671
Not that I played him gay.
1404
01:15:08,671 --> 01:15:10,594
He's 7,000 years old,
1405
01:15:10,589 --> 01:15:13,183
I think sex was a thing
of the past for him.
1406
01:15:15,136 --> 01:15:17,434
What I'm not good at is
doing what I'm doing now
1407
01:15:17,430 --> 01:15:20,149
which is trying to not edit myself.
1408
01:15:20,141 --> 01:15:22,189
Not edit what I'm saying.
1409
01:15:22,184 --> 01:15:23,106
Though of course we do.
1410
01:15:23,102 --> 01:15:25,355
Just before we speak, we
think what we're going to say.
1411
01:15:25,354 --> 01:15:27,402
But really, I do.
1412
01:15:27,398 --> 01:15:29,025
And sometimes I pause and think,
1413
01:15:29,025 --> 01:15:31,744
hm, what would be the
best way to put this.
1414
01:15:31,736 --> 01:15:34,740
And it took, I think,
doing a comic version
1415
01:15:34,739 --> 01:15:37,868
of myself in a sketch
written by Ricky Gervais
1416
01:15:37,867 --> 01:15:40,541
and Stephen Merchant, his writing partner,
1417
01:15:40,536 --> 01:15:44,086
for their series Extras.
1418
01:15:44,081 --> 01:15:45,708
They wrote a comic version of myself,
1419
01:15:45,708 --> 01:15:49,588
a pompous actor, very pleased with himself
1420
01:15:49,587 --> 01:15:54,058
and probably some sonorous
tone came into my voice
1421
01:15:54,050 --> 01:15:58,351
and I talked about the
difficulties of my job
1422
01:15:58,345 --> 01:16:00,143
and all that sort of thing.
1423
01:16:00,139 --> 01:16:02,107
- How do I act so well?
1424
01:16:04,060 --> 01:16:09,237
What I do is I pretend to
be the person I'm portraying
1425
01:16:09,774 --> 01:16:11,117
in the film or play.
1426
01:16:13,152 --> 01:16:14,369
- Yeah.
1427
01:16:14,361 --> 01:16:15,237
- You're confused.
1428
01:16:15,237 --> 01:16:17,911
- No.
- Very simple, case and point.
1429
01:16:17,907 --> 01:16:21,662
- I was so alarmed at how
stupid and comic I was
1430
01:16:21,660 --> 01:16:24,254
with the slightly
exaggerated version of myself
1431
01:16:24,246 --> 01:16:27,750
that I realised that often
when I had been on chat shows
1432
01:16:27,750 --> 01:16:29,377
trying to be myself, what I had been
1433
01:16:29,376 --> 01:16:31,754
is an exaggerated version of myself.
1434
01:16:31,754 --> 01:16:34,098
The man who knows it
all, the man who's wise,
1435
01:16:34,090 --> 01:16:35,933
the man who's been there, done that.
1436
01:16:35,925 --> 01:16:36,892
Well.
1437
01:16:39,595 --> 01:16:43,350
Now I'm trying to just speak to you.
1438
01:16:44,683 --> 01:16:46,606
Oh, here comes Ian McKellen.
1439
01:16:46,602 --> 01:16:48,650
Now, what side of Ian McKellen
am I going to present?
1440
01:16:48,646 --> 01:16:50,648
Am I going to talk seriously about gays,
1441
01:16:50,648 --> 01:16:55,654
in which the case I must drop
anything that looks unnatural.
1442
01:16:55,778 --> 01:16:58,247
Am I going to talk about
the film or play I'm doing,
1443
01:16:58,239 --> 01:17:00,788
which I'm hoping to
persuade people to come see?
1444
01:17:00,783 --> 01:17:03,832
I must convey my enthusiasm
and I must also try
1445
01:17:03,828 --> 01:17:05,375
and enthuse them, but who is them?
1446
01:17:05,371 --> 01:17:06,247
Who am I talking to?
1447
01:17:06,247 --> 01:17:08,500
It's a puzzle.
1448
01:17:08,499 --> 01:17:12,003
But if you've got a message,
it's a puzzle worth solving
1449
01:17:12,002 --> 01:17:13,925
and coming to terms with.
1450
01:17:16,632 --> 01:17:18,100
- [Interviewer] And mark it.
1451
01:17:22,012 --> 01:17:24,515
What are the things that
you think about the most?
1452
01:17:26,267 --> 01:17:27,109
- Death.
1453
01:17:30,271 --> 01:17:31,113
Every day-
1454
01:17:36,735 --> 01:17:39,113
I think about how it might come about.
1455
01:17:41,240 --> 01:17:42,992
I would think about
1456
01:17:50,833 --> 01:17:52,927
how it would come about.
1457
01:17:54,545 --> 01:17:55,467
It must be that feeling,
1458
01:17:55,462 --> 01:17:58,966
oh I reckon, I'm really
going to sleep now.
1459
01:17:58,966 --> 01:18:01,845
Yeah, well, you can, forevermore.
1460
01:18:03,762 --> 01:18:06,390
You can imagine that
being quite attractive.
1461
01:18:06,390 --> 01:18:07,562
Particularly if you're in pain
1462
01:18:07,558 --> 01:18:11,404
or you've lost your reason or something.
1463
01:18:14,106 --> 01:18:17,861
I renovated my house recently
and I put in an elevator
1464
01:18:17,860 --> 01:18:19,658
that was fortunate, room for a lift.
1465
01:18:19,653 --> 01:18:24,875
And I don't use it as yet, but it's there.
1466
01:18:24,950 --> 01:18:28,124
Otherwise, I think am I
going to end up in a hospice
1467
01:18:28,120 --> 01:18:32,216
or a hospital, or a geriatric
ward, or an old people's home?
1468
01:18:32,208 --> 01:18:34,006
Who's going to look after me there?
1469
01:18:35,252 --> 01:18:36,674
I don't have family.
1470
01:18:36,670 --> 01:18:41,050
I don't have any dependents
who are going to look after me.
1471
01:18:41,050 --> 01:18:43,223
So I have to sort of organise that myself.
1472
01:18:45,179 --> 01:18:49,605
The other day, Sean Mathias,
who is one of the executives
1473
01:18:49,600 --> 01:18:52,979
in my world said, "Look, when you die,
1474
01:18:52,978 --> 01:18:55,072
"we're going to have
to organise a funeral,
1475
01:18:55,064 --> 01:18:56,941
"but I don't know what to do.
1476
01:18:56,941 --> 01:19:00,616
"So would you please sort it out?"
1477
01:19:00,611 --> 01:19:01,703
That sort of turn.
1478
01:19:03,530 --> 01:19:05,328
Well, I had an evening to spare and I did.
1479
01:19:05,324 --> 01:19:09,500
I had the most enjoyable
evening of (chuckling)
1480
01:19:10,829 --> 01:19:14,174
my wish list of what should happen.
1481
01:19:14,166 --> 01:19:19,218
Initially, my funeral,
and then my memorial.
1482
01:19:20,839 --> 01:19:23,888
I want no religion at either event.
1483
01:19:25,094 --> 01:19:28,223
And I would like the
memorial to take place
1484
01:19:28,222 --> 01:19:30,099
in a celebratory way, in a theatre.
1485
01:19:31,892 --> 01:19:32,859
Free admission.
1486
01:19:34,186 --> 01:19:36,234
And I want a lot of beautiful people.
1487
01:19:36,230 --> 01:19:38,324
I don't want anyone who didn't know me
1488
01:19:38,315 --> 01:19:39,658
who was in it to be paid.
1489
01:19:41,151 --> 01:19:43,529
And I thought I might like it to end
1490
01:19:43,529 --> 01:19:48,410
with one singular sensation
from a chorus line.
1491
01:19:48,409 --> 01:19:50,537
When I finished this I thought,
1492
01:19:50,536 --> 01:19:53,335
oh, I'd love to go to that funeral.
1493
01:19:53,330 --> 01:19:56,300
(chuckling)
1494
01:19:56,292 --> 01:19:59,796
So, I hope I might arrange a
dress rehearsal before I go.
1495
01:20:01,922 --> 01:20:03,640
You're not told that, when you're young,
1496
01:20:03,632 --> 01:20:07,387
that when you're old, you
think about death all the time.
1497
01:20:07,386 --> 01:20:11,391
But I think it probably means
as I've noted with people
1498
01:20:11,390 --> 01:20:13,859
I've seen die, that they're ready.
1499
01:20:15,394 --> 01:20:19,240
As I see other people getting
decrepit and unable to work,
1500
01:20:19,231 --> 01:20:23,828
I think, well, that may well happen to me.
1501
01:20:23,819 --> 01:20:26,368
And when it does, there's
not much I can do about it.
1502
01:20:26,363 --> 01:20:30,709
But in the meantime, why
deny myself the pleasure
1503
01:20:30,701 --> 01:20:32,703
of rehearsing a play?
1504
01:20:32,703 --> 01:20:33,829
- What am I to say?
1505
01:20:33,829 --> 01:20:35,957
_ gay I am happy.
1506
01:20:35,956 --> 01:20:36,957
- I am happy-
1507
01:20:38,667 --> 01:20:40,590
- So am I.
- So am I.
1508
01:20:40,586 --> 01:20:42,088
- We are happy-
- We are happy-
1509
01:20:44,214 --> 01:20:47,138
What do we do now that we're happy?
1510
01:20:47,134 --> 01:20:49,182
- Of all the methods of telling stories,
1511
01:20:49,178 --> 01:20:53,103
the one which the storyteller
is closest to the audience
1512
01:20:53,098 --> 01:20:57,023
is in what we call live theatre.
1513
01:20:57,019 --> 01:20:59,317
Well, I don't think I've ever
been away from it, really.
1514
01:21:00,522 --> 01:21:03,526
I've never imagined not doing a play again
1515
01:21:03,525 --> 01:21:05,027
at the earliest opportunity.
1516
01:21:06,612 --> 01:21:10,992
And when Godot ended, as
we bowed to the audience,
1517
01:21:15,245 --> 01:21:20,251
thank you, thank you for coming,
hope you had a good time.
1518
01:21:22,294 --> 01:21:24,046
Thank you, thank you.
1519
01:21:24,963 --> 01:21:27,182
And I started to cry.
1520
01:21:50,072 --> 01:21:52,325
(sobbing)
1521
01:21:54,076 --> 01:21:57,421
- [Friend] It's all right, it's all right.
1522
01:21:57,413 --> 01:22:00,758
- I feel that's my last
performance on a stage ever.
1523
01:22:00,749 --> 01:22:03,423
- That's silly.
- No, god.
1524
01:22:03,419 --> 01:22:06,548
No, darling, thank you so much.
1525
01:22:06,547 --> 01:22:08,470
Thank you so, so much.
1526
01:22:10,217 --> 01:22:15,018
The end of a play has been
so intense, it's a family.
1527
01:22:15,013 --> 01:22:16,890
A family has forged itself.
1528
01:22:19,351 --> 01:22:21,945
A group who trust each
other, who want to be
1529
01:22:21,937 --> 01:22:22,779
in each other's company,
1530
01:22:22,771 --> 01:22:26,366
who collectively are
taking responsibility.
1531
01:22:27,943 --> 01:22:29,411
And then it stops.
1532
01:22:29,403 --> 01:22:33,033
Your life seems to be
pretty meagre in comparison.
1533
01:22:33,991 --> 01:22:34,867
Mine does.
1534
01:22:36,368 --> 01:22:39,042
Now, I haven't brought up children.
1535
01:22:39,037 --> 01:22:42,541
I haven't had one constant
partner who I've been trying
1536
01:22:42,541 --> 01:22:46,216
to nourish a relationship
with a family life.
1537
01:22:46,211 --> 01:22:51,183
Which, probably, is more
satisfying than anything else
1538
01:22:51,175 --> 01:22:53,018
you can possibly do.
1539
01:22:53,010 --> 01:22:56,435
I don't have that, so I maybe invested
1540
01:22:58,724 --> 01:23:00,772
what's needed to have
kept that situation going
1541
01:23:00,767 --> 01:23:02,769
into my work, perhaps.
1542
01:23:03,770 --> 01:23:08,446
I am baffled how anybody can
bring up children and act.
1543
01:23:09,485 --> 01:23:13,206
Because acting takes everything out of me.
1544
01:23:14,740 --> 01:23:17,584
I don't seem to have anything left.
1545
01:23:17,576 --> 01:23:19,920
- Sir Ian McKellen was in Gloucestershire today
1546
01:23:19,912 --> 01:23:22,085
helping pupils put together a play
1547
01:23:22,080 --> 01:23:24,174
about homophobic bullying.
1548
01:23:24,166 --> 01:23:25,668
Students from across the county were there
1549
01:23:25,667 --> 01:23:29,171
to learn some hints and
tips from the master.
1550
01:23:29,171 --> 01:23:30,593
- What takes up quite a lot of time
1551
01:23:30,589 --> 01:23:32,842
is visiting schools, at the moment.
1552
01:23:32,841 --> 01:23:37,938
I tell them about my life
and a child as a gay boy.
1553
01:23:40,182 --> 01:23:45,404
A trend seems to be rather
people in their early teens
1554
01:23:45,729 --> 01:23:47,276
don't want to have labels
1555
01:23:47,272 --> 01:23:48,899
because they don't find them relevant,
1556
01:23:48,899 --> 01:23:50,993
that they want to be themselves.
1557
01:23:50,984 --> 01:23:52,406
That's their label, me.
1558
01:23:55,697 --> 01:23:59,327
And it's occurred to me that
the label I put on myself
1559
01:23:59,326 --> 01:24:02,170
as being gay is actually a label,
1560
01:24:03,497 --> 01:24:06,216
although it has a new name
now, it used to be queer,
1561
01:24:06,208 --> 01:24:09,462
that other people have put on
me, why should I be defined
1562
01:24:09,461 --> 01:24:12,340
by my sexuality when anyone
who's straight isn't?
1563
01:24:13,298 --> 01:24:15,471
I now understand.
1564
01:24:15,467 --> 01:24:17,561
So perhaps I shall stop being gay.
1565
01:24:17,553 --> 01:24:21,649
Perhaps it's time I stopped
talking being out of the closet.
1566
01:24:21,640 --> 01:24:23,267
Remember, that's all in the past.
1567
01:24:23,267 --> 01:24:24,359
So when you're with young people,
1568
01:24:24,351 --> 01:24:25,773
you realise, even though you are old,
1569
01:24:25,769 --> 01:24:29,399
you do have out of date attitudes.
1570
01:24:29,398 --> 01:24:32,652
And how would I discover
that if I didn't meet them?
1571
01:24:32,651 --> 01:24:35,200
So, I go along and the part I'm playing
1572
01:24:35,195 --> 01:24:40,417
is of concerned older
gent who likes what I see
1573
01:24:41,368 --> 01:24:44,247
because when I was their
age, it didn't exist.
1574
01:24:45,163 --> 01:24:46,710
Well, that's not true anymore.
1575
01:24:47,916 --> 01:24:51,420
So I tell them what it used to
be like and their jaws drop.
1576
01:24:51,420 --> 01:24:54,344
And of course, I go along as
the man who played Gandalf.
1577
01:24:57,467 --> 01:24:59,140
And the first thing I say to them,
1578
01:24:59,136 --> 01:25:04,142
and you know, I've polished
this little routine that I have.
1579
01:25:04,349 --> 01:25:06,727
If you don't do your revision properly,
1580
01:25:06,727 --> 01:25:08,320
do you know what will happen?
1581
01:25:08,312 --> 01:25:09,655
- What?
- What will happen?
1582
01:25:09,646 --> 01:25:11,489
- You shall not pass.
1583
01:25:12,649 --> 01:25:16,119
(cheering and applause)
1584
01:25:18,196 --> 01:25:19,573
And you know, little
Ian McKellen who thought
1585
01:25:19,573 --> 01:25:22,292
he might want to be an
actor, who enjoyed acting,
1586
01:25:22,284 --> 01:25:30,284
never thought that actually
the real centre of his life
1587
01:25:30,667 --> 01:25:34,217
was nothing to do with acting at all.
1588
01:25:34,212 --> 01:25:38,467
Well, that's what Roger Allam
or Mike Gambon or Judi Dench,
1589
01:25:38,467 --> 01:25:42,017
Maggie Smith, Martin Alpers,
would say about their lives,
1590
01:25:42,012 --> 01:25:44,185
but they'd be referring to their children.
1591
01:25:45,807 --> 01:25:47,935
I'm in the company of
strangers all day long.
1592
01:25:47,934 --> 01:25:50,437
My professional life is
devoted to strangers.
1593
01:25:52,522 --> 01:25:54,490
I think those of us
who don't have children
1594
01:25:56,568 --> 01:25:58,821
have a (sighing)
1595
01:26:01,406 --> 01:26:05,252
need to feel that some part of our lives
1596
01:26:05,243 --> 01:26:07,587
are just given to the next generations.
1597
01:26:14,211 --> 01:26:17,431
It's very appealing if a
young actor knows something
1598
01:26:17,422 --> 01:26:19,299
about what I've done in the past
1599
01:26:19,299 --> 01:26:22,769
and if it's had some
impact on them in some way.
1600
01:26:22,761 --> 01:26:24,809
Ed Norton tells me he
decided to become an actor
1601
01:26:24,805 --> 01:26:27,183
when he saw me do my
one man Shakespeare show
1602
01:26:27,182 --> 01:26:29,059
in Washington D.C.
1603
01:26:29,059 --> 01:26:32,734
And Michael Brambidge, a big
producer and director now,
1604
01:26:32,729 --> 01:26:34,823
decided to become involved in theatre
1605
01:26:34,815 --> 01:26:39,286
when he saw The Twelfth Night
that I had set up
1606
01:26:39,277 --> 01:26:40,494
and toured for the RC.
1607
01:26:42,072 --> 01:26:42,948
That's lovely.
1608
01:26:44,157 --> 01:26:49,004
It used to be that it was my
secret, my life, my profession.
1609
01:26:50,414 --> 01:26:53,543
I found it difficult to
talk about, still do really.
1610
01:26:53,542 --> 01:26:54,964
Although I'm coming on now.
1611
01:26:56,211 --> 01:27:01,433
If I know about anything,
and I don't, I can't cook.
1612
01:27:04,553 --> 01:27:06,772
I can't run my finances.
1613
01:27:07,723 --> 01:27:12,945
I'm not an expert on anything
except this acting business.
1614
01:27:14,521 --> 01:27:15,864
And I can't even talk about that
1615
01:27:15,856 --> 01:27:17,858
because what I do is very personal
1616
01:27:17,858 --> 01:27:21,112
and I'm in with a group of people who
1617
01:27:21,111 --> 01:27:22,704
are all doing the same thing
1618
01:27:22,696 --> 01:27:25,245
and they have been the
most wonderful friends
1619
01:27:25,240 --> 01:27:29,416
and lovers and protectors and guides
1620
01:27:29,411 --> 01:27:32,039
and anything you could
want from a human being,
1621
01:27:32,038 --> 01:27:36,168
I've found in working in
the theatre particularly.
1622
01:27:37,127 --> 01:27:41,382
And now, I'm a senior
member of this large troupe.
1623
01:27:41,381 --> 01:27:44,260
(dramatic music)
1624
01:28:13,121 --> 01:28:15,840
- [Gandalf] You shall not pass!
1625
01:28:18,668 --> 01:28:22,263
- And isn't it funny,
these visits to schools,
1626
01:28:24,841 --> 01:28:26,684
my sister was a teacher.
1627
01:28:26,676 --> 01:28:28,144
Her husband was a teacher.
1628
01:28:29,012 --> 01:28:30,434
My uncle was a headteacher.
1629
01:28:37,312 --> 01:28:39,610
Both grandparents were preachers.
1630
01:28:39,606 --> 01:28:41,153
My father was a lay preacher.
1631
01:28:42,901 --> 01:28:43,823
I'm one of them.
1632
01:28:45,111 --> 01:28:45,987
It turns out.
1633
01:28:48,532 --> 01:28:50,785
Trying to change the
world, make it better.
1634
01:28:51,868 --> 01:28:55,793
(upbeat dramatic music)
1635
01:28:55,789 --> 01:28:57,336
And I wasn't in Harry Potter.
1636
01:28:59,167 --> 01:29:00,259
(chuckling)
1637
01:29:00,252 --> 01:29:04,974
Though sometimes they say they
think I played Dumbledore.
1638
01:29:05,924 --> 01:29:08,302
And sometimes I think I did.
1639
01:29:08,301 --> 01:29:11,475
Oh, you know what it sounds
like, is this an obituary?
1640
01:29:11,471 --> 01:29:13,849
I'm still alive, I'm still here.
1641
01:29:15,350 --> 01:29:17,193
What sort of music do you like?
1642
01:29:17,185 --> 01:29:18,778
House?
1643
01:29:18,770 --> 01:29:19,692
You what?
1644
01:29:19,688 --> 01:29:20,564
No.
1645
01:29:21,648 --> 01:29:23,150
I say indie pop-
1646
01:29:25,068 --> 01:29:27,412
I don't know what it means.
1647
01:29:27,404 --> 01:29:32,160
I think one thing I might
say to young Ian is you know,
1648
01:29:34,786 --> 01:29:36,038
you're quite attractive.
1649
01:29:43,086 --> 01:29:44,008
I was.
1650
01:29:44,004 --> 01:29:45,301
I didn't know.
1651
01:29:47,007 --> 01:29:48,634
Nobody ever told me.
1652
01:29:50,802 --> 01:29:53,851
(phone ringing)
1653
01:29:53,847 --> 01:29:54,973
Hello.
1654
01:29:54,973 --> 01:29:56,816
In fact, I thought on my 80th
birthday one of the things
1655
01:29:56,808 --> 01:29:59,857
I might get myself would be an orchestra.
1656
01:29:59,853 --> 01:30:00,729
Just for the day.
1657
01:30:02,272 --> 01:30:05,071
Playing only tunes I knew whilst I sang.
1658
01:30:05,066 --> 01:30:06,568
Wouldn't that be fun?
1659
01:30:06,568 --> 01:30:10,368
I've had most of my haircuts
done for jobs, you know.
1660
01:30:10,363 --> 01:30:12,206
Somebody I don't know and
it probably not very good
1661
01:30:12,198 --> 01:30:13,745
at the“ 'yob comes and cuts my ha“.
1662
01:30:13,742 --> 01:30:14,618
Thank you.
1663
01:30:15,535 --> 01:30:16,411
Free.
1664
01:30:17,537 --> 01:30:18,914
And I wasn't nominated for Mr. Holmes.
1665
01:30:18,914 --> 01:30:21,133
I was a bit disappointed.
1666
01:30:21,124 --> 01:30:22,000
Because I thought it was sort
1667
01:30:22,000 --> 01:30:25,504
of acting that they
might have appreciated.
1668
01:30:28,381 --> 01:30:32,511
And I said, "Who wins these SAG Awards?"
1669
01:30:32,510 --> 01:30:35,229
And I looked it up on Google.
1670
01:30:35,221 --> 01:30:37,019
Ran through all these famous actors.
1671
01:30:37,015 --> 01:30:39,393
Oh, Ian McKellen, oh.
1672
01:30:41,061 --> 01:30:42,233
I won a SAG Award.
1673
01:30:43,980 --> 01:30:45,573
I had forgotten.
1674
01:30:45,565 --> 01:30:49,786
Well, Joe, I am bewildered, but
I don't know what we're doing
1675
01:30:49,778 --> 01:30:50,904
or what you're doing.
1676
01:30:53,031 --> 01:30:56,285
Life goes on and life
stops and then, you know.
1677
01:30:56,284 --> 01:30:58,753
(whooshing)
1678
01:31:00,080 --> 01:31:01,832
But if I can help somebody...
1679
01:31:05,835 --> 01:31:09,055
♪ If I can help somebody ♪
1680
01:31:09,047 --> 01:31:11,550
♪ As I pass along ♪
1681
01:31:11,549 --> 01:31:19,479
♪ Then my living will not be in vain ♪
1682
01:31:20,850 --> 01:31:22,818
Yeah, well that's about it, isn't it?
132573
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