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MY LIFE IN CINEMA
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AKIRA KUROSAWA, DIRECTOR
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Ready!
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Action!
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FILMS DISCUSSED
IN THIS INTERVIEW:
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SANSHIRO SUGATA,
THE MEN WHO TREAD ON THE TIGER'S TAIL
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DRUNKEN ANGEL,THE IDIOT
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THE HIDDEN FORTRESS,MADADAYO
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SEVEN SAMURAI, DREAMS,
I LIVE IN FEAR, THE BAD SLEEP WELL
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KUROSAWA HAD DIRECTED
30 FILMS AS OF 1993.
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KUROSAWA'S HOME, AUGUST 1993
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00:00:56,450 --> 00:00:58,751
I've always considered you
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00:00:58,958 --> 00:01:03,054
atypical of a Japanese person
in your actions and physique,
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00:01:03,263 --> 00:01:05,197
as well as in the films
you've made.
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INTERVIEWER: NAGISA OSHIMA
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Do you have non-Japanese ancestors?
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00:01:09,502 --> 00:01:13,461
Perhaps I do.
I'm not sure.
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00:01:13,673 --> 00:01:15,834
I've noticed this change in myself,
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00:01:17,577 --> 00:01:20,410
but when people
in my family turn 80,
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their eyes turn bluish.
- Their eyes?
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It happened to my father,
and my aunts too.
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00:01:29,022 --> 00:01:32,685
I used to wonder
why their eyes looked like that.
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00:01:32,892 --> 00:01:38,990
It seems it happens often
among natives of Tohoku.
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00:01:39,199 --> 00:01:43,329
I guess there may have been
interbreeding with Russians.
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00:01:43,536 --> 00:01:48,940
As a child I was puzzled why so many
people had Caucasian features.
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00:01:49,142 --> 00:01:51,372
But this is all speculation.
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00:01:51,578 --> 00:01:54,741
Were you very tall
even as a child?
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00:01:54,948 --> 00:01:57,142
Actually, no.
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00:01:59,152 --> 00:02:01,916
I wasn't particularly tall
in elementary school.
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00:02:02,122 --> 00:02:07,025
I had a sudden growth spurt
in the ninth grade.
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00:02:07,227 --> 00:02:10,355
I was a swimmer then,
and I suddenly grew tall and thin.
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00:02:12,565 --> 00:02:15,432
I was really lanky for a long time.
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00:02:15,635 --> 00:02:18,035
When I'd visit foreign countries,
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00:02:18,238 --> 00:02:23,335
people often told me I was skinny
because I wasn't eating enough.
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00:02:23,543 --> 00:02:28,105
It was after I turned 40
that I gained some bulk.
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00:02:28,314 --> 00:02:31,805
- You were thin in photos of your youth.
- Wasn't I?
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00:02:32,018 --> 00:02:36,079
Jackets from my younger days
were only about this wide.
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00:02:36,289 --> 00:02:40,225
I was that skinny,
though I wasn't starving myself.
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00:02:41,628 --> 00:02:43,357
What sort of child were you?
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00:02:43,563 --> 00:02:48,762
I had a reputation
for being a real crybaby.
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00:02:49,936 --> 00:02:53,269
So you weren't good in sports?
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00:02:53,473 --> 00:02:59,378
No, but my father wanted
to change that.
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00:02:59,579 --> 00:03:04,778
I had really pale skin, so he'd give me
money when I acquired a tan.
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00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:13,291
And he told me to take up swimming.
My brother was a really good swimmer.
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00:03:13,493 --> 00:03:17,394
So he'd take me along,
and I practiced swimming quite a bit,
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as well as Japanese fencing.
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00:03:21,367 --> 00:03:25,234
My father was concerned
about my weak constitution.
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00:03:25,438 --> 00:03:28,134
He even told me
to change my name
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00:03:28,341 --> 00:03:30,468
because the character
had an unlucky number of strokes.
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00:03:30,677 --> 00:03:37,480
But I refused to change it,
even though he wanted me to.
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00:03:38,851 --> 00:03:41,718
I guess my being weak worried him.
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00:03:42,222 --> 00:03:46,386
But your brother, Heigo - I believe
that's the correct reading of his name?
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00:03:46,593 --> 00:03:52,259
His name is very different from yours,
now that I think about it.
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00:03:52,465 --> 00:03:57,903
That's true.
But we were very similar.
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00:03:58,538 --> 00:04:02,497
That's what Musei Tokugawa,
the silent movie narrator, told me.
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00:04:02,709 --> 00:04:07,078
My brother was also a narrator under
the professional name of Teimei Suda.
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00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:12,513
Tokugawa asked, when we met, if I was
Suda's brother, since we looked alike.
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00:04:12,719 --> 00:04:15,846
He also said that, in one sense,
we were completely different:
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My brother was like a photographic
negative and I was the positive.
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00:04:20,860 --> 00:04:26,127
So people mistook me for my brother
when I wasn't with him,
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00:04:26,332 --> 00:04:28,459
but when we were together,
we were clearly different.
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00:04:28,668 --> 00:04:31,728
We were unusual as brothers.
We had the exact same measurements.
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00:04:31,938 --> 00:04:33,803
- He was tall too?
- Yes.
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00:04:34,007 --> 00:04:38,535
His features were
more chiseled than mine.
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00:04:39,846 --> 00:04:42,508
We were very different
in that sense.
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00:04:42,715 --> 00:04:45,979
Did the fact
that your brother was a narrator
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00:04:46,185 --> 00:04:49,552
motivate you
to get into the film industry?
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00:04:49,756 --> 00:04:52,554
Not really.
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00:04:52,759 --> 00:04:59,323
But he would frequently point me
to films that I should see.
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00:04:59,532 --> 00:05:03,628
My father was in the military,
and it was unusual back in those days
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00:05:03,836 --> 00:05:08,933
for a military man to attend movies,
since they were deemed unrespectable.
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00:05:09,142 --> 00:05:15,570
But my father encouraged us
and took us to see movies.
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00:05:15,782 --> 00:05:21,311
I started going to cinema quite young.
- What was the first film you saw?
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00:05:21,521 --> 00:05:25,082
The first movie I remember seeing
was something called Cuore.
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00:05:26,659 --> 00:05:29,423
And I think there was
another one called Zigomar.
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00:05:29,629 --> 00:05:32,792
I had a vague memory of it
and described it to someone,
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and I was told the film was Zigomar.
So that's how far back my memory goes.
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00:05:38,004 --> 00:05:40,837
- That would be in the early 1910s.
- Yes.
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00:05:42,075 --> 00:05:46,842
Your illustrations are now famous
all over the world.
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00:05:47,046 --> 00:05:49,070
Did you like to draw as a child?
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00:05:49,282 --> 00:05:53,308
I planned to become a painter,
so I studied painting.
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00:05:53,519 --> 00:05:56,181
But at a certain point,
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00:05:56,389 --> 00:06:00,553
I realized I couldn't express
some things through pictures alone.
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00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:02,784
Also...
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00:06:02,995 --> 00:06:05,555
I felt I didn't have
enough talent as a painter,
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00:06:05,765 --> 00:06:09,098
and it's almost impossible
to make a living by painting.
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00:06:09,302 --> 00:06:12,032
When did you start to paint?
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00:06:12,238 --> 00:06:16,607
It must've been at the end
of the ninth grade.
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00:06:16,809 --> 00:06:21,712
My first work was shown
at the Nika Exhibition,
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00:06:21,914 --> 00:06:25,907
and that's when I began
to doubt my talent as a painter,
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00:06:27,053 --> 00:06:29,521
because I'd complete a piece
very quickly.
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00:06:29,722 --> 00:06:33,317
Artists like Cezanne,
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00:06:33,526 --> 00:06:36,757
Ryuzaburo Umehara
and Kazumasa Nakagawa
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00:06:36,963 --> 00:06:39,796
would work
on their pieces forever.
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00:06:39,999 --> 00:06:46,905
They'd have a clear picture
of what they wanted to create,
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00:06:47,106 --> 00:06:50,598
and it would take them a long time
to achieve their goal.
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00:06:50,977 --> 00:06:53,604
So I thought painting
so quickly may not be good.
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00:06:53,813 --> 00:06:56,907
Did you go to art school?
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00:06:57,116 --> 00:07:01,051
Not for long.
Although I took an entrance exam,
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00:07:01,254 --> 00:07:03,950
I had no intention of going.
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00:07:04,157 --> 00:07:07,183
- So you're mostly self-taught?
- Yes.
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00:07:07,393 --> 00:07:11,385
You mentioned Cezanne.
Did you paint in that style?
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00:07:11,597 --> 00:07:15,590
Yes. The late Impressionist style
was in vogue at the time,
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00:07:15,802 --> 00:07:19,431
so it must've been
the greatest influence.
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00:07:19,639 --> 00:07:22,767
Were you also influenced
by the Shirakaba school in Japan?
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00:07:22,975 --> 00:07:25,136
I liked that style very much.
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It's strange,
but when I was painting,
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00:07:31,851 --> 00:07:36,584
I dreamt of showing
my work in Paris.
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00:07:36,789 --> 00:07:42,352
Later, though I wasn't a painter -
- You had an exhibit in Paris.
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My storyboards were shown
at an exhibit.
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00:07:46,432 --> 00:07:49,629
The painter Umehara
complimented me on them.
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00:07:50,837 --> 00:07:55,967
The thing is, I'm not trying
to draw or paint well anymore.
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00:07:56,409 --> 00:07:58,070
I just work freely,
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00:07:58,277 --> 00:08:02,212
and as a result, I guess
my illustrations have some appeal.
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00:08:02,415 --> 00:08:07,079
The thought of drawing or painting well
doesn't enter my mind.
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00:08:07,286 --> 00:08:10,346
Rather, my illustrations are to convey
images in my mind to my crew.
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00:08:10,556 --> 00:08:12,546
And making illustrations
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00:08:12,758 --> 00:08:19,162
helps me visualize concrete images,
which you need to direct a film.
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00:08:19,365 --> 00:08:22,163
I only draw or paint
as a means of visualizing,
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00:08:22,368 --> 00:08:25,496
without the slightest ambition
to produce fine illustrations.
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00:08:25,705 --> 00:08:29,732
As I consider different ways
of shooting a film,
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00:08:29,942 --> 00:08:35,676
I draw images that come to me
using the tools at hand.
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00:08:35,881 --> 00:08:38,941
- But you still work quickly?
- Yes.
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00:08:39,150 --> 00:08:43,712
For example, when my crew and I
return to a hotel from scouting locations,
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00:08:43,923 --> 00:08:50,556
I take a quick shower,
because I don't like baths.
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00:08:50,763 --> 00:08:53,891
But it takes my crew
from 60 to 90 minutes
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00:08:55,301 --> 00:08:59,362
to finish bathing and come down
to the dining room.
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00:08:59,572 --> 00:09:04,532
So as I wait for them,
I sit and draw some illustrations,
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00:09:04,744 --> 00:09:09,374
and then I show them to my crew
over dinner. So I work quickly.
130
00:09:09,582 --> 00:09:12,380
That puts a lot of pressure
on your crew,
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00:09:12,585 --> 00:09:14,746
since they have to recreate
what you've illustrated so quickly.
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00:09:14,954 --> 00:09:18,252
I just want them to get an idea
of what I'm looking for.
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00:09:18,457 --> 00:09:22,223
I'm not good at explaining things.
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00:09:22,428 --> 00:09:26,228
Illustrations make it easier
to convey what I want.
135
00:09:27,366 --> 00:09:31,462
In the beginning, though,
I didn't draw a lot.
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00:09:31,671 --> 00:09:34,834
When you were young,
were you trying to draw well?
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00:09:35,041 --> 00:09:37,566
I must have been,
looking back on it now,
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00:09:37,777 --> 00:09:40,837
and I see now that
that mindset worked against me.
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00:09:41,981 --> 00:09:46,645
By the time you started
in the film industry,
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00:09:46,852 --> 00:09:49,377
you were relatively old,
in a sense.
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00:09:49,589 --> 00:09:51,955
Yes, I was 26, the oldest
among the assistant directors.
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00:09:52,158 --> 00:09:56,857
You hadn't worked until then,
just concentrated on painting?
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00:09:57,063 --> 00:10:02,194
Yes. Then my brother
committed suicide.
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00:10:02,401 --> 00:10:06,598
It's strange how things turn out.
According to Japan's family register,
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00:10:06,806 --> 00:10:09,741
a family line is assumed
by the eldest son.
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00:10:09,942 --> 00:10:15,278
If the oldest son dies, the second
oldest succeeds, and so on.
147
00:10:15,481 --> 00:10:17,415
So I was my brother's successor.
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00:10:17,617 --> 00:10:22,680
You became the head
of the Kurosawa family.
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00:10:22,888 --> 00:10:26,551
It just fell into my lap.
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00:10:26,759 --> 00:10:30,092
Until then, I often slept
at my brother's place,
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00:10:30,296 --> 00:10:32,821
and he was very caring
and gave me pocket money.
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00:10:33,032 --> 00:10:36,991
After my brother's death,
I felt I had to find a job.
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00:10:37,203 --> 00:10:42,641
Then, by chance, I came across
a want ad for assistant directors
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00:10:45,144 --> 00:10:47,704
posted by the studio PCL.
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00:10:48,147 --> 00:10:52,880
I'd already prepared a copy
of my family register to look for a job,
156
00:10:53,085 --> 00:10:55,315
so I applied for the position.
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00:10:55,521 --> 00:10:58,285
Then I ended up working
in the industry by chance.
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00:10:58,491 --> 00:11:03,121
Was that the very first ad
for ADs that PCL placed,
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00:11:03,329 --> 00:11:05,296
or had there been
one before that?
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00:11:05,498 --> 00:11:07,659
I think it was the first.
161
00:11:07,933 --> 00:11:10,265
Then shortly afterwards,
PCL and Toho merged.
162
00:11:10,469 --> 00:11:13,461
Yes, in order to expand
as a studio.
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00:11:13,673 --> 00:11:16,471
It was at my interview
that I met Yama-san.
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00:11:16,676 --> 00:11:18,769
Kajiro Yamamoto?
165
00:11:18,978 --> 00:11:24,973
He was the lead interviewer.
We hit it off and talked a great deal.
166
00:11:25,184 --> 00:11:28,779
So it must've been fate
that we met.
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00:11:28,988 --> 00:11:32,685
- Had you heard of him before?
- No, never.
168
00:11:32,892 --> 00:11:38,262
I didn't even know where PCL was.
I thought it was in Chiba.
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00:11:38,464 --> 00:11:43,128
In the picture of the studio,
there seemed to be
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00:11:43,335 --> 00:11:45,997
palm trees growing
next to a lawn,
171
00:11:46,205 --> 00:11:49,368
so I assumed
it was near a beach.
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00:11:49,575 --> 00:11:53,136
Although I was instructed to take
a train from Shinjuku,
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00:11:53,345 --> 00:11:55,836
I still thought it was in Chiba.
174
00:11:56,048 --> 00:12:01,918
After the interview, Yama-san told me
to take a bus heading for Shibuya
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00:12:02,121 --> 00:12:05,750
because it'd be
quicker than a train.
176
00:12:05,958 --> 00:12:09,689
I thought it was strange
that there was such a bus
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00:12:09,895 --> 00:12:11,886
and wondered
if I was really in Chiba.
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00:12:12,098 --> 00:12:14,430
I was that inattentive.
179
00:12:14,633 --> 00:12:17,796
When I checked later,
it wasn't in Chiba at all.
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00:12:18,003 --> 00:12:20,972
So you had no idea
who Yamamoto was
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00:12:21,173 --> 00:12:25,109
or what kind of movies PCL made?
- Practically none.
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00:12:25,945 --> 00:12:29,881
Before taking the job, was there any
film that made an impression on you,
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00:12:30,082 --> 00:12:33,518
such as Zigomar mentioned earlier?
- There were many.
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00:12:33,719 --> 00:12:35,619
For example?
185
00:12:35,821 --> 00:12:41,487
The film that made the greatest impression
was La roue by Abel Gance.
186
00:12:41,694 --> 00:12:47,360
It made me think cinema was wonderful.
There were many other films as well.
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00:12:47,566 --> 00:12:51,434
But my brother told me
I should see it,
188
00:12:51,637 --> 00:12:54,731
and I was excited by what it achieved.
- The Abel Gance film?
189
00:12:56,976 --> 00:12:59,035
Though many other films
come to mind,
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00:12:59,245 --> 00:13:04,512
that's the one that made me
the most fascinated with the medium.
191
00:13:04,717 --> 00:13:08,550
What fascinated you? The imagery?
It must've been a silent film.
192
00:13:08,754 --> 00:13:15,626
It was. The movie depicts
the life of a locomotive engineer,
193
00:13:15,828 --> 00:13:21,959
and you see locomotives
in key scenes,
194
00:13:22,168 --> 00:13:24,864
and I was fascinated
by the shots of wheels.
195
00:13:25,070 --> 00:13:30,702
I believe the Japanese title for La roue
was Tetsuro no Shirobara.
196
00:13:32,144 --> 00:13:36,478
And you felt it was an expressive
medium different from painting.
197
00:13:36,682 --> 00:13:38,650
Had you thought of writing novels?
198
00:13:38,851 --> 00:13:42,378
No, I never aspired to do that.
199
00:13:43,756 --> 00:13:51,891
The writer Matsutaro Kawaguchi told me
that if I'd written novels,
200
00:13:52,097 --> 00:13:54,497
I'd have become a rich man.
201
00:13:55,668 --> 00:13:58,728
Because there's no money
in writing screenplays.
202
00:13:59,138 --> 00:14:02,801
It's interesting that you met
Yamamoto on your job interview.
203
00:14:03,008 --> 00:14:10,312
That's right. When I got
my first assignment as an AD,
204
00:14:10,516 --> 00:14:13,747
it was so boring working under
that director, whom I won't name.
205
00:14:13,953 --> 00:14:18,151
I wanted to quit,
but my friends persuaded me not to,
206
00:14:18,357 --> 00:14:21,918
saying not all directors
were like that one.
207
00:14:22,127 --> 00:14:23,958
My next assignment
was under Yamamoto,
208
00:14:24,163 --> 00:14:26,427
and I stuck with him after that.
209
00:14:26,632 --> 00:14:28,896
I rarely worked
under other directors.
210
00:14:29,101 --> 00:14:33,902
I worked once for Mikio Naruse,
and also once for Eisuke Takizawa.
211
00:14:34,106 --> 00:14:36,574
How many ADs -
212
00:14:36,775 --> 00:14:40,211
those that started at PCL
and then at Toho - were there then?
213
00:14:40,412 --> 00:14:42,607
Let me see.
214
00:14:45,517 --> 00:14:49,476
I don't remember exactly,
but perhaps about 30.
215
00:14:49,688 --> 00:14:54,716
And you were relatively free
to work with certain people,
216
00:14:54,927 --> 00:14:58,761
say, if you wanted to work
with Yamamoto, and vice versa?
217
00:14:58,964 --> 00:15:02,422
When I first started,
the studio was a start-up.
218
00:15:02,635 --> 00:15:06,628
PCL stood for
Photo Chemical Laboratory,
219
00:15:06,839 --> 00:15:10,297
which originally processed talkies
for other studios.
220
00:15:10,509 --> 00:15:16,243
Then they started making movies,
like the Tadano Bonji series.
221
00:15:16,448 --> 00:15:20,441
So from the time they started
making movies regularly
222
00:15:20,653 --> 00:15:22,382
until they merged with Toho,
223
00:15:22,588 --> 00:15:31,121
they borrowed ADs
from other studios.
224
00:15:31,330 --> 00:15:36,461
But they recognized the need
to train enough of their own,
225
00:15:36,669 --> 00:15:39,763
so they set up
a system to interview applicants.
226
00:15:39,972 --> 00:15:45,103
With this history,
the studio treated ADs very well.
227
00:15:45,311 --> 00:15:52,240
They were placed in a sort of
cadet system, like at military schools.
228
00:15:52,451 --> 00:15:56,888
There were other trainees
in various departments too.
229
00:15:57,089 --> 00:16:02,686
If it were the navy, for example,
there'd be gunnery trainees.
230
00:16:02,895 --> 00:16:05,021
Like trainees
in a photography department?
231
00:16:05,230 --> 00:16:10,759
But training for future officers
in military schools is different,
232
00:16:10,970 --> 00:16:16,169
and the studio adopted
that kind of system for its ADs,
233
00:16:16,375 --> 00:16:23,611
so we had to train in every department,
even film printing.
234
00:16:23,816 --> 00:16:31,222
We rotated through
a series of departments while training.
235
00:16:31,590 --> 00:16:35,151
So they really trained us well.
236
00:16:35,361 --> 00:16:38,694
How long was the assignment
in each department? Six months?
237
00:16:38,897 --> 00:16:42,230
- A few months.
- Did you carry cameras?
238
00:16:42,434 --> 00:16:45,096
I didn't work
with cameras that much,
239
00:16:45,304 --> 00:16:50,435
but I worked in departments
such as props and costumes.
240
00:16:50,943 --> 00:16:53,241
I carried a hammer
slung from my belt at one time,
241
00:16:53,445 --> 00:16:55,879
and I worked
in the print department.
242
00:16:56,548 --> 00:17:00,348
When you starting working,
you began as an AD,
243
00:17:00,552 --> 00:17:03,578
but you always aspired to be a director?
- Of course.
244
00:17:03,789 --> 00:17:08,317
All the ADs had the same aspiration,
and that sort of caused a problem.
245
00:17:08,527 --> 00:17:15,456
There were first ADs
who'd been working there before us.
246
00:17:15,968 --> 00:17:22,999
These old-timers and us newcomers,
with Satsuo Yamamoto as our leader,
247
00:17:23,208 --> 00:17:26,575
had a difference of opinion.
248
00:17:26,779 --> 00:17:31,011
The studio came up
with an interesting offer at one point.
249
00:17:31,216 --> 00:17:35,312
Studio executives had traveled
to America to study Hollywood studios.
250
00:17:35,521 --> 00:17:39,116
First ADs work really hard
in Hollywood studios.
251
00:17:39,324 --> 00:17:42,851
On a set,
you might not notice the director,
252
00:17:43,062 --> 00:17:46,964
but you notice the first AD right away,
because he's the busiest one.
253
00:17:47,166 --> 00:17:52,069
So, impressed by how hard
first ADs worked in Hollywood,
254
00:17:52,271 --> 00:17:57,231
the executives returned
convinced that was how it should be.
255
00:17:59,445 --> 00:18:03,404
They work as career ADs there.
- In Hollywood.
256
00:18:03,615 --> 00:18:08,279
The executives asked if any of us
wanted to become a career AD.
257
00:18:08,487 --> 00:18:13,754
If anyone chose to devote himself
to work in that capacity...
258
00:18:15,561 --> 00:18:18,655
then there'd be a raise.
259
00:18:18,864 --> 00:18:21,424
That was the studio's offer.
260
00:18:21,633 --> 00:18:28,630
We newcomers thought we should
take the offer if it meant a raise.
261
00:18:28,841 --> 00:18:33,676
Eventually the studio would have
to make us directors anyway,
262
00:18:33,879 --> 00:18:37,178
so it'd be smart to take the raise.
263
00:18:37,382 --> 00:18:40,783
But the old-timers disagreed.
264
00:18:40,986 --> 00:18:43,614
They wanted to be promoted
based on seniority.
265
00:18:43,822 --> 00:18:47,313
So we split into two groups
and argued quite a bit.
266
00:18:47,526 --> 00:18:53,396
In the end, the old-timers...
267
00:18:55,134 --> 00:18:59,002
the ADs who'd been there before us,
left the studio.
268
00:19:00,706 --> 00:19:02,900
It became uncomfortable for them.
269
00:19:03,108 --> 00:19:10,674
So we newcomers became
sort of like a new party in power.
270
00:19:10,883 --> 00:19:14,444
The old-timers all ended up leaving,
271
00:19:14,653 --> 00:19:18,111
but they hadn't been
a promising bunch.
272
00:19:18,323 --> 00:19:21,258
They weren't attractive material
for the studio either.
273
00:19:21,460 --> 00:19:23,951
Satsuo Yamamoto was the first
among us to become a director,
274
00:19:24,163 --> 00:19:26,256
followed by Tadashi Imai.
275
00:19:26,465 --> 00:19:29,127
As these promotions occurred,
276
00:19:29,334 --> 00:19:36,433
I guess the old-timers felt
unwelcome and left the studio.
277
00:19:36,642 --> 00:19:39,338
There was that kind of history.
278
00:19:39,578 --> 00:19:47,508
Interestingly, there used to be
a huge sign by a Toho soundstage
279
00:19:47,719 --> 00:19:52,418
that said that the first AD's command
was equal to that of the president's.
280
00:19:52,891 --> 00:19:54,984
There used to be a sign like that,
281
00:19:55,194 --> 00:20:00,995
and other crew members
resented that.
282
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:04,465
It wasn't easy to overcome
their disgruntlement.
283
00:20:04,670 --> 00:20:08,333
But that's how well the studio
treated its ADs.
284
00:20:08,540 --> 00:20:12,340
The studio was liberal in one sense
and trained its ADs very well.
285
00:20:12,544 --> 00:20:18,449
Very much so. In return,
we had to do all kinds of things.
286
00:20:18,650 --> 00:20:22,051
- Were you made a first AD fairly quickly?
- Yes.
287
00:20:22,254 --> 00:20:26,156
How many years did it take?
288
00:20:30,862 --> 00:20:33,387
Three years, I think.
289
00:20:34,700 --> 00:20:38,534
- Was it on Horse?
- No, it was before that.
290
00:20:40,005 --> 00:20:43,202
And I had to do
all kinds of tasks.
291
00:20:43,408 --> 00:20:46,434
When shooting on location,
292
00:20:46,645 --> 00:20:50,775
I was like a location manager
and had to oversee bills.
293
00:20:53,018 --> 00:20:57,819
Unless you had learned
every aspect of filmmaking,
294
00:20:58,023 --> 00:21:00,718
you couldn't become a first AD.
295
00:21:01,727 --> 00:21:05,629
So a first AD was well-informed.
- Budget, scheduling, etc?
296
00:21:05,831 --> 00:21:11,496
Yes. For example, how the costume
department operated, and so on.
297
00:21:11,703 --> 00:21:13,796
People were appreciative,
298
00:21:14,006 --> 00:21:18,409
because I knew the inner workings
of every department.
299
00:21:19,511 --> 00:21:22,878
So that's how
I was trained at the studio.
300
00:21:23,081 --> 00:21:26,140
And Yama-san told me
301
00:21:26,652 --> 00:21:29,450
that you couldn't
become a director
302
00:21:29,655 --> 00:21:31,885
unless you could
write scripts and edit.
303
00:21:32,090 --> 00:21:35,059
So he had me write scripts,
304
00:21:36,061 --> 00:21:39,588
and he gave me editing assignments
right away on all his films.
305
00:21:41,633 --> 00:21:46,002
And he'd bring me
306
00:21:46,204 --> 00:21:49,731
some writing assignments.
307
00:21:49,941 --> 00:21:52,671
Even if they were for movies
in the "narrative ballad" style,
308
00:21:53,745 --> 00:22:00,274
I made good money
writing scripts for them.
309
00:22:02,454 --> 00:22:08,017
Around the time of Horse, in fact,
I was writing a script for a Daiei film.
310
00:22:08,994 --> 00:22:15,365
It was when Kan Kikuchi
was at Daiei
311
00:22:15,967 --> 00:22:19,266
and wanted to hire me
as a screenwriter.
312
00:22:19,471 --> 00:22:23,202
Daiei's executives had to disclose
to him that I was a Toho employee.
313
00:22:24,943 --> 00:22:28,174
But I made good money, for that time,
with these screenwriting jobs.
314
00:22:29,014 --> 00:22:32,710
Guess what my starting salary was.
- I have no idea.
315
00:22:32,918 --> 00:22:37,411
- Twenty-eight yen.
- Was that low compared to other jobs?
316
00:22:37,622 --> 00:22:41,080
It was definitely low.
317
00:22:41,293 --> 00:22:44,456
Because an AD could really earn
a high salary,
318
00:22:44,663 --> 00:22:47,826
depending on how hard
he trained and applied himself.
319
00:22:48,033 --> 00:22:53,061
In comparison, people working in
the studio offices got better starting pay,
320
00:22:53,271 --> 00:22:57,571
because their salaries
could only go up so high.
321
00:22:57,776 --> 00:23:04,147
Office workers were better paid,
but ADs had the potential to earn big.
322
00:23:06,651 --> 00:23:12,021
Even so, we were paid very little.
But I don't recall feeling the pinch.
323
00:23:12,224 --> 00:23:15,625
Everything at the studio
was handled via vouchers.
324
00:23:15,827 --> 00:23:20,560
We used vouchers
at the cafeteria as well.
325
00:23:21,666 --> 00:23:26,194
So we ate as much
as we wanted.
326
00:23:26,405 --> 00:23:32,867
Then, when payday came,
there was no money in the envelope.
327
00:23:33,078 --> 00:23:36,343
I'd only find used vouchers.
- Deducted from your pay.
328
00:23:36,548 --> 00:23:41,850
So I'd go
to the studio head's office
329
00:23:42,053 --> 00:23:44,453
and ask him to issue
"temporary vouchers."
330
00:23:44,656 --> 00:23:49,116
These were vouchers
for the following month.
331
00:23:49,327 --> 00:23:52,626
Since I was broke
even as I received my pay,
332
00:23:52,831 --> 00:23:57,324
I'd get by on vouchers
issued in advance.
333
00:23:57,969 --> 00:24:01,336
Although I began
at the studio after the war,
334
00:24:01,540 --> 00:24:06,739
I rarely went home, sleeping instead
at the studio or in a nearby hotel,
335
00:24:06,945 --> 00:24:10,641
and it really felt
like I was working 24 hours a day.
336
00:24:10,849 --> 00:24:13,976
So it was the same
back then too.
337
00:24:14,186 --> 00:24:17,349
My overtime pay was greater
than my salary of 28 yen.
338
00:24:17,556 --> 00:24:22,892
I was paid an additional 30 yen
for overtime and location pay.
339
00:24:23,094 --> 00:24:31,229
So in the end,
I'd generally receive about 60 yen.
340
00:24:31,636 --> 00:24:34,469
But working that much,
341
00:24:34,673 --> 00:24:37,506
it's amazing you still
had time to write scripts.
342
00:24:37,709 --> 00:24:41,839
Well, I tell this to my crew often,
343
00:24:42,047 --> 00:24:45,483
but even if you think
you're too busy to write,
344
00:24:45,684 --> 00:24:48,619
you can write one page a day.
345
00:24:50,755 --> 00:24:57,092
At that rate
you'll have 365 pages in a year.
346
00:24:57,295 --> 00:24:59,525
It can be done,
if you have the will.
347
00:24:59,731 --> 00:25:05,761
So although I was busy
on the production of Horse,
348
00:25:05,971 --> 00:25:10,032
I'd work on scripts after dinner,
in the futon storage room.
349
00:25:11,109 --> 00:25:15,307
I was mostly writing scripts
for other studios, to make extra money.
350
00:25:16,114 --> 00:25:18,275
That's how I worked back then.
351
00:25:18,483 --> 00:25:23,250
Did you receive requests
from other studios to write scripts?
352
00:25:24,422 --> 00:25:27,016
You published some
in film magazines.
353
00:25:27,225 --> 00:25:32,526
Yes, Darumaji-dera no Doitsu-jin,Shizuka nari and Yuki, for example.
354
00:25:32,731 --> 00:25:35,029
Since they were published,
355
00:25:35,233 --> 00:25:38,168
I was asked to write scripts
toward the end of my AD years.
356
00:25:38,370 --> 00:25:44,366
Before that, when Yama-san
was asked to write but didn't want to,
357
00:25:44,576 --> 00:25:51,539
he'd ask if I wanted to write
for some extra money.
358
00:25:51,750 --> 00:25:56,210
I even wrote for some films
starring Torazo Hirosawa.
359
00:25:56,421 --> 00:25:58,184
I didn't know that.
360
00:25:58,390 --> 00:26:02,053
Just recently I was asked
by a German producer
361
00:26:02,260 --> 00:26:05,661
about possibly making
Darumaji-dera no Doitsu-jin into a film.
362
00:26:05,864 --> 00:26:09,095
So I read the script
and thought it was very good.
363
00:26:09,301 --> 00:26:11,667
But it was written
at that moment in time
364
00:26:11,870 --> 00:26:15,669
when Japan, Germany,
and Italy were allies.
365
00:26:15,874 --> 00:26:18,968
But the script doesn't glorify
militarism at all.
366
00:26:19,177 --> 00:26:22,476
No, but I feel
its time has passed.
367
00:26:22,681 --> 00:26:27,345
I understand, but it's very -
- It's a funny thing.
368
00:26:27,719 --> 00:26:32,122
A script that doesn't get made
in its time doesn't get made.
369
00:26:32,324 --> 00:26:37,227
It seems like it missed its time
to get made.
370
00:26:37,429 --> 00:26:39,397
Once that happens, that's it.
371
00:26:39,598 --> 00:26:41,930
It would've been made
if conditions had been favorable.
372
00:26:42,133 --> 00:26:44,533
For example, Advance Patrol
was written
373
00:26:44,836 --> 00:26:50,741
when the captain
of the Tatekawa reconnaissance unit
374
00:26:50,942 --> 00:26:54,343
was an ambassador to Russia.
He was a lieutenant general in the army.
375
00:26:54,546 --> 00:26:56,844
He said he'd cooperate
with us completely.
376
00:26:57,048 --> 00:27:00,142
Back then, many White Army soldiers
were stationed in Harbin.
377
00:27:00,352 --> 00:27:03,116
There were Cossacks too,
and military uniforms were available,
378
00:27:03,421 --> 00:27:06,288
so it all worked out favorably
for the movie.
379
00:27:06,791 --> 00:27:09,123
I remember the name Tatekawa.
380
00:27:09,327 --> 00:27:13,525
He was an ambassador to Russia
at the time the movie was made.
381
00:27:14,532 --> 00:27:19,993
He offered to cooperate with us fully,
so it was a great opportunity.
382
00:27:20,205 --> 00:27:24,539
The producer Morita,
who nurtured me -
383
00:27:24,743 --> 00:27:27,438
Nobuyoshi Morita?
384
00:27:27,646 --> 00:27:29,546
Shortly before he passed on,
he said,
385
00:27:29,748 --> 00:27:34,811
"I made the greatest mistake
of my life
386
00:27:35,854 --> 00:27:41,884
when I didn't let you make
Advance Patrol.
387
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:46,758
You wanted to make
your directorial debut with it,
388
00:27:46,965 --> 00:27:50,957
but I couldn't let a first-time director
tackle such a big project.
389
00:27:51,169 --> 00:27:55,765
It was a prudent decision but also
the greatest mistake of my life."
390
00:27:55,974 --> 00:27:58,101
I think that movie
could've only been made then.
391
00:27:58,309 --> 00:28:04,043
You wrote the script with the idea
of making it your directorial debut?
392
00:28:04,249 --> 00:28:06,581
I expressed my wish to direct it.
393
00:28:06,785 --> 00:28:09,481
So even from the beginning,
you were confident that -
394
00:28:09,688 --> 00:28:13,021
No, it wasn't like that.
I just wrote the script.
395
00:28:13,625 --> 00:28:19,427
I have notebooks from my AD days,
and I looked at one the other day.
396
00:28:19,631 --> 00:28:26,730
I found a note saying that Japanese
cinema needed to be more dynamic.
397
00:28:26,938 --> 00:28:31,466
Japanese films back then
tended to be rather static.
398
00:28:31,810 --> 00:28:35,678
So I guess I wrote the note
as a reminder
399
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:41,147
that we needed to find ways
to get more action into them.
400
00:28:41,953 --> 00:28:45,149
I must've written it
for that reason.
401
00:28:47,058 --> 00:28:50,789
There was an overall pattern
evident in movies made back then,
402
00:28:50,995 --> 00:28:53,428
even by Shochiku.
403
00:28:53,631 --> 00:28:59,729
For example, many films
would begin with a scene
404
00:28:59,938 --> 00:29:07,208
where a messenger comes up a slope
and enters a gate as he says hello.
405
00:29:07,412 --> 00:29:10,904
There were no scripts
that would open a story with a bang,
406
00:29:11,116 --> 00:29:15,075
right in the middle
of something exciting.
407
00:29:15,286 --> 00:29:20,815
But what if a movie opened
with a character shouting a response
408
00:29:21,025 --> 00:29:24,859
in an action scene?
- Making it more dynamic.
409
00:29:25,063 --> 00:29:28,965
I was thinking about
something along that line.
410
00:29:30,001 --> 00:29:32,128
What inspired that idea?
411
00:29:32,337 --> 00:29:37,070
Well, when I compared
foreign films with Japanese films,
412
00:29:37,275 --> 00:29:40,244
Japanese films
were extremely tame.
413
00:29:40,445 --> 00:29:42,845
They do open rather statically.
414
00:29:43,047 --> 00:29:48,178
Yes, that was the overall trend.
And everyone followed it.
415
00:29:49,554 --> 00:29:53,115
Though Sadao Yamanaka
was an exception.
416
00:29:54,058 --> 00:29:57,084
So as you worked
as an AD at Toho,
417
00:29:57,295 --> 00:30:03,256
you had this sense of dissatisfaction,
a desire to make something different.
418
00:30:03,468 --> 00:30:06,528
I guess those feelings
gradually built up inside me.
419
00:30:07,572 --> 00:30:11,871
But it's interesting
how Toho changed after the war.
420
00:30:12,076 --> 00:30:14,670
At Shochiku's Ofuna studio then,
I had to do all kinds of tasks,
421
00:30:14,879 --> 00:30:16,937
just as you related earlier,
422
00:30:17,148 --> 00:30:21,551
from being a location manager
to overseeing bills.
423
00:30:21,753 --> 00:30:25,449
And when I'd see a Toho AD
of that time, such as Hideo Onchi,
424
00:30:25,657 --> 00:30:29,592
I'd get the impression Toho's ADs
only had to do certain tasks.
425
00:30:29,794 --> 00:30:33,161
But when you were an AD,
you truly had to do all kinds of tasks.
426
00:30:33,364 --> 00:30:35,525
I tell people
that's the right way.
427
00:30:35,733 --> 00:30:40,693
It seems they've become specialized
in the kinds of tasks they do.
428
00:30:40,905 --> 00:30:43,738
But that's not good.
429
00:30:43,942 --> 00:30:45,933
So Toho changed its system
after the war?
430
00:30:46,144 --> 00:30:49,170
Yes, it did around that time.
431
00:30:49,380 --> 00:30:52,872
Every department was put
under tighter supervision?
432
00:30:54,018 --> 00:30:58,614
From around that time
after the war...
433
00:30:59,724 --> 00:31:03,922
the studio changed its course
from one of developing ADs
434
00:31:04,128 --> 00:31:06,028
to a more profit-oriented
435
00:31:06,231 --> 00:31:09,530
and business-minded course.
- That must've been a big shift.
436
00:31:09,734 --> 00:31:14,831
In order to successfully run
a movie studio these days,
437
00:31:15,039 --> 00:31:18,975
you must nurture ADs
as directors of the future.
438
00:31:19,177 --> 00:31:23,375
I feel that I myself benefited
from the cadet system,
439
00:31:23,581 --> 00:31:25,606
so I strongly agree with you.
440
00:31:25,817 --> 00:31:29,753
ADs in my current crew
441
00:31:30,889 --> 00:31:35,792
are submissive for the most part,
and they don't voice their opinions.
442
00:31:36,861 --> 00:31:40,490
They just do their jobs mechanically.
I tell them to get more involved,
443
00:31:40,698 --> 00:31:44,964
but it seems to be an overall trend
nowadays to hold back.
444
00:31:45,169 --> 00:31:48,798
We used to speak our minds
freely to directors.
445
00:31:49,974 --> 00:31:53,602
Senkichi Taniguchi was merciless.
One day he said, "Yama-san,
446
00:31:53,811 --> 00:31:59,908
you're a first-rate screenwriter
but a second-rate director."
447
00:32:01,119 --> 00:32:03,644
I thought that was rude.
448
00:32:03,855 --> 00:32:06,790
Then he continued,
"So you should listen to our opinions."
449
00:32:06,991 --> 00:32:11,826
Yama-san just laughed,
but he valued our opinions.
450
00:32:13,031 --> 00:32:16,865
In that regard,
the way things are now makes me worry
451
00:32:17,068 --> 00:32:19,831
for the future generation
of directors.
452
00:32:20,605 --> 00:32:23,665
Was there a consensus at Toho
453
00:32:23,875 --> 00:32:27,777
that you would become
a full-fledged director?
454
00:32:28,313 --> 00:32:30,611
Yes.
455
00:32:31,649 --> 00:32:34,708
You mentioned
Advance Patrol earlier,
456
00:32:34,919 --> 00:32:37,854
but did you suggest
Sanshiro Sugata
457
00:32:38,056 --> 00:32:41,617
as a film to make
your directorial debut?
458
00:32:43,661 --> 00:32:49,691
I had three other scripts rejected
by the Interior Department's censors.
459
00:32:49,968 --> 00:32:52,232
Maybe more than three.
460
00:32:54,105 --> 00:32:59,133
You had to have your script
approved by censors first.
461
00:32:59,344 --> 00:33:02,211
As you were trying to direct
your first film,
462
00:33:02,413 --> 00:33:06,315
what were the scripts
that were rejected?
463
00:33:06,517 --> 00:33:12,683
One was called Mori no Sen-Ichiya,
among several others.
464
00:33:12,890 --> 00:33:15,757
But they were all rejected.
- All were your original scripts?
465
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,896
Yes, so I bore a deep grudge
against the censors.
466
00:33:20,298 --> 00:33:24,894
Censors were
such a formidable presence,
467
00:33:25,103 --> 00:33:27,367
taking advantage
of their borrowed authority.
468
00:33:28,706 --> 00:33:34,906
I wrote about this in my book,
but for Sanshiro Sugata's review -
469
00:33:35,113 --> 00:33:39,015
The Internal Department
used to interview directors.
470
00:33:39,617 --> 00:33:43,485
Yama-san couldn't come with me
due to other business,
471
00:33:43,688 --> 00:33:47,488
but he said not to worry
because he'd asked Ozu to help.
472
00:33:47,692 --> 00:33:49,887
At the censors' office,
Tomotaka Tasaka said
473
00:33:50,094 --> 00:33:51,925
that the way characters
addressed each other,
474
00:33:52,130 --> 00:33:57,124
or a kissing scene on a staircase,
suggested Western influence.
475
00:33:57,335 --> 00:34:00,566
Meanwhile,
sitting behind the table facing me
476
00:34:00,772 --> 00:34:04,832
were censors, and even
office boys, drinking coffee.
477
00:34:05,043 --> 00:34:09,810
I sat all by myself,
like a criminal in court.
478
00:34:10,014 --> 00:34:15,418
As all these objectionable parts
were read aloud,
479
00:34:16,821 --> 00:34:21,884
I reached my tipping point
and was about to storm out.
480
00:34:22,092 --> 00:34:26,757
Then Ozu stood up and said,
"Congratulations.
481
00:34:26,964 --> 00:34:34,302
Your movie is worth
120 out of 100 points."
482
00:34:34,505 --> 00:34:38,441
Thanks to Ozu,
the movie was approved.
483
00:34:39,342 --> 00:34:43,438
- Was it the movie itself or the script?
- The movie.
484
00:34:43,648 --> 00:34:50,417
They made me wait five hours
and didn't even offer a cup of tea.
485
00:34:51,556 --> 00:34:57,358
And it was obvious the office boys
had been allowed to watch the film
486
00:34:57,562 --> 00:35:00,861
because they were playing
in the corridor, shouting a line from it.
487
00:35:01,799 --> 00:35:05,633
It was such a despicable place.
488
00:35:05,837 --> 00:35:09,830
You had to go through that process
every time you made a film?
489
00:35:10,441 --> 00:35:17,004
Luckily, when Japan lost the war,
that changed overnight.
490
00:35:17,215 --> 00:35:20,548
The first thing the Americans did
was get rid of the censors.
491
00:35:20,751 --> 00:35:25,347
I was impressed by that.
492
00:35:26,858 --> 00:35:31,318
- You had to constantly fight before.
- Yes.
493
00:35:31,529 --> 00:35:37,866
It's scary when bureaucrats
like those censors
494
00:35:38,069 --> 00:35:43,473
gain authority
through a greater power behind them.
495
00:35:46,611 --> 00:35:51,173
They become this dreadful presence
496
00:35:51,382 --> 00:35:54,374
making unreasonable demands.
497
00:35:57,255 --> 00:36:01,021
They were more keen
to display their power
498
00:36:01,225 --> 00:36:03,659
than to actually review
the content of a film?
499
00:36:03,861 --> 00:36:06,989
I guess they came
to feel that way.
500
00:36:08,599 --> 00:36:13,969
When I made
The Men Who Tread on the Tiger's Tail,
501
00:36:15,606 --> 00:36:19,872
by then the Japanese censors
had been fired,
502
00:36:21,078 --> 00:36:22,773
but I got summoned.
503
00:36:22,980 --> 00:36:25,710
I used to get into fights
everywhere I went...
504
00:36:27,652 --> 00:36:35,149
so Iwao Mori, the studio head,
usually advised me to control myself.
505
00:36:35,359 --> 00:36:37,691
But when the summons came,
506
00:36:37,895 --> 00:36:42,025
he got angry and said the censors
no longer had authority
507
00:36:42,233 --> 00:36:45,964
and encouraged me
to pick a fight with them.
508
00:36:46,170 --> 00:36:49,196
So I presented myself
to the censors.
509
00:36:49,407 --> 00:36:52,342
They said,
"What's this script?
510
00:36:54,779 --> 00:36:57,976
It's defiling
a Kabuki play called Kanjincho,
511
00:36:58,182 --> 00:37:02,118
thereby tarnishing Japan's
classical performing art itself."
512
00:37:02,887 --> 00:37:07,950
I responded, "Kabuki's Kanjincho
is a reworking of the Noh play Ataka.
513
00:37:08,159 --> 00:37:10,218
Don't you know that?
514
00:37:10,428 --> 00:37:16,025
In my view, the Kabuki version
is an adaptation of the Noh play.
515
00:37:17,702 --> 00:37:24,130
It's odd to suggest that my script
has greatly altered Kanjincho,
516
00:37:24,342 --> 00:37:32,113
when, in fact, my script is closer
in spirit to the original Noh version."
517
00:37:32,316 --> 00:37:34,783
Then this young censor said,
518
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:41,586
"In any case, this is worthless."
519
00:37:44,595 --> 00:37:47,894
I retaliated, "If a worthless guy
calls it worthless,
520
00:37:48,099 --> 00:37:50,363
it must be a good script."
521
00:37:50,568 --> 00:37:53,628
After that, the guy kept quiet.
522
00:37:54,972 --> 00:37:59,636
But they didn't report the script
to General Headquarters,
523
00:37:59,844 --> 00:38:02,404
so we were shooting
without proper approval.
524
00:38:02,613 --> 00:38:10,486
And Conde, the GHQ censor,
decided against allowing its release.
525
00:38:12,189 --> 00:38:16,125
Mori said that Toho was partly
at fault for the mix-up,
526
00:38:16,927 --> 00:38:19,225
and he felt sorry for me.
527
00:38:19,430 --> 00:38:22,024
We were already shooting
when we found out.
528
00:38:22,233 --> 00:38:26,169
But Mori allowed me to complete
the film the way I wanted to.
529
00:38:26,370 --> 00:38:28,930
He felt really sorry for me.
530
00:38:29,140 --> 00:38:32,337
Even though the film was completed,
we obviously couldn't release it.
531
00:38:32,543 --> 00:38:34,704
Then Gercke replaced Conde.
532
00:38:34,912 --> 00:38:39,508
He saw the film,
found nothing objectionable,
533
00:38:39,717 --> 00:38:42,413
and gave us his blessing
to release it at last.
534
00:38:43,621 --> 00:38:46,715
It seems Conde
was a very peculiar man.
535
00:38:46,924 --> 00:38:50,826
Well, he was a leftist.
536
00:38:52,697 --> 00:38:56,360
So as a young man,
you were quick to get into a fight.
537
00:38:56,567 --> 00:38:59,263
Did you fight with the studio a lot?
- I did indeed.
538
00:38:59,470 --> 00:39:03,803
Who was the studio head
back in those days?
539
00:39:04,008 --> 00:39:07,910
It was Mori at first, followed
by a number of different people.
540
00:39:08,112 --> 00:39:12,640
But you were mostly able to work
on the projects you wanted to.
541
00:39:12,850 --> 00:39:15,317
You pitched your projects, right?
542
00:39:15,519 --> 00:39:22,754
Yes, I foresaw that there could be
a problem in the future,
543
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:26,327
since the ownership of a film's
copyright was rather hazy,
544
00:39:26,530 --> 00:39:28,896
as it is even today.
545
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:33,400
So I decided that there
shouldn't be any dispute
546
00:39:33,604 --> 00:39:36,095
if I pitched the project,
wrote the script,
547
00:39:36,307 --> 00:39:39,104
and directed and edited
all by myself.
548
00:39:39,310 --> 00:39:43,303
I've stuck to that principle
on all my films.
549
00:39:43,514 --> 00:39:48,713
How many scripts did you write
before becoming a director?
550
00:39:48,919 --> 00:39:50,886
They must really add up.
551
00:39:51,088 --> 00:39:53,420
I've written lots.
552
00:39:54,892 --> 00:39:57,759
I said this earlier,
but it's amazing you had time to write.
553
00:39:57,962 --> 00:40:00,954
You must've liked drinking sake
back then too, right?
554
00:40:01,165 --> 00:40:06,262
I did. So it was like
when I ran out of pocket money,
555
00:40:06,470 --> 00:40:10,133
I'd write a script.
556
00:40:10,341 --> 00:40:15,368
After I'd been first AD
for Yama-san for about two years,
557
00:40:15,579 --> 00:40:20,516
he said I didn't have to come
to the set every day.
558
00:40:20,718 --> 00:40:23,118
I only had to help
when a second unit was shooting.
559
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:27,814
He said I could help him edit,
but I didn't have be on the set.
560
00:40:28,592 --> 00:40:31,561
So I had extra time
on my hands.
561
00:40:32,263 --> 00:40:37,701
When I wrote a script, I'd be paid -
It wasn't a lot of money even then,
562
00:40:37,902 --> 00:40:42,066
but Daiei, for instance,
paid me about 300 yen.
563
00:40:42,273 --> 00:40:45,709
With that
I'd take my friends out to drink.
564
00:40:45,910 --> 00:40:48,606
- You spent it on drinks?
- Yes.
565
00:40:48,813 --> 00:40:52,715
Then, when I ran out of money,
I'd write another script.
566
00:40:52,917 --> 00:40:55,249
It was like I was writing scripts
to earn drinking money.
567
00:40:55,453 --> 00:40:58,945
- Where did you write?
- At home or anywhere.
568
00:41:00,291 --> 00:41:04,728
For Yuki, though,
I received 2,000 yen.
569
00:41:04,929 --> 00:41:08,956
2,000 yen was big money back then.
It lasted a long time.
570
00:41:09,166 --> 00:41:13,432
- Yuki won some kind of a competition.
- Yes, the Information Agency's.
571
00:41:14,071 --> 00:41:19,406
I earned 300 yen for Shizuka nari.
572
00:41:20,411 --> 00:41:26,077
Toho rarely paid me
300 yen for a script.
573
00:41:26,650 --> 00:41:30,814
Having written numerous scripts,
how did you feel
574
00:41:31,021 --> 00:41:34,513
directing your first film,
Sanshiro Sugata?
575
00:41:34,725 --> 00:41:37,057
When you were shooting it,
576
00:41:37,261 --> 00:41:42,665
did you feel writing and directing
were two different things?
577
00:41:47,104 --> 00:41:50,540
In my case
they're not different,
578
00:41:50,741 --> 00:41:53,608
as long as I'm working
from my own script.
579
00:41:53,811 --> 00:41:57,008
But when I'd write a script
for someone else to direct,
580
00:41:57,214 --> 00:42:01,583
unexpected things
sometimes happened,
581
00:42:02,386 --> 00:42:04,854
because the director
would misinterpret the script.
582
00:42:05,055 --> 00:42:06,886
You've written many scripts
since becoming a director,
583
00:42:07,091 --> 00:42:09,058
like The Portrait for Kinoshita.
584
00:42:09,260 --> 00:42:16,166
Sometimes I'd find a crucial scene
had been cut from a film.
585
00:42:16,367 --> 00:42:20,235
It may have been Kinoshita whom
I asked, "Why did you cut this scene?"
586
00:42:20,437 --> 00:42:24,874
He said, "It was unnecessary."
So I explained its significance.
587
00:42:25,075 --> 00:42:30,172
"Oh, I'm sorry," he said.
So that kind of thing happened.
588
00:42:30,381 --> 00:42:36,286
When you hand over your script
to someone else,
589
00:42:36,487 --> 00:42:41,652
it seems a gap exists
between the writer and the director
590
00:42:41,859 --> 00:42:44,656
in understanding
the script's true intention.
591
00:42:44,862 --> 00:42:49,196
I guess that kind of
misinterpretation can occur
592
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:52,836
when you're not involved
in the writing.
593
00:42:53,037 --> 00:42:59,533
Why do you think a script
gets misinterpreted like that?
594
00:42:59,743 --> 00:43:05,909
Well, it must be
people's different ways of thinking
595
00:43:06,116 --> 00:43:08,141
that cause things
like that to happen.
596
00:43:08,352 --> 00:43:13,379
I've seen some inconceivable
interpretations of my scripts.
597
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:21,930
You've also made films with scripts
written by other screenwriters.
598
00:43:22,132 --> 00:43:26,068
In those cases, do you rewrite
the script before shooting it?
599
00:43:26,270 --> 00:43:29,364
Yes. I wrote scripts
with other writers,
600
00:43:29,573 --> 00:43:34,875
because when I wrote by myself,
my biases tended to show strongly.
601
00:43:35,079 --> 00:43:37,274
As a group, everyone
would write the same scene,
602
00:43:37,481 --> 00:43:40,416
and we'd gather what we wrote
at the end of the day.
603
00:43:40,618 --> 00:43:44,987
Then we'd select
the usable parts.
604
00:43:45,189 --> 00:43:50,558
So in the end, I was rearranging
those parts into one whole script.
605
00:43:52,062 --> 00:43:54,029
I reminisce
about this sometimes,
606
00:43:54,231 --> 00:43:59,362
but at one time, there were all these
A-list directors working at Toho.
607
00:43:59,570 --> 00:44:03,973
They used to sit on the studio's
front lawn and chat.
608
00:44:04,174 --> 00:44:10,113
There were people like Mizoguchi,
Naruse, Yamanaka, and Itami.
609
00:44:10,381 --> 00:44:13,612
These great directors
were all working there,
610
00:44:13,817 --> 00:44:17,685
each busy on a soundstage.
Yasujiro Shimazu was there too.
611
00:44:18,789 --> 00:44:24,921
When I was done for the day,
I'd generally visit
612
00:44:25,129 --> 00:44:29,930
one of the soundstages
where these directors were working.
613
00:44:31,135 --> 00:44:36,072
Shimazu once said to me,
"Kuro-chan,
614
00:44:36,273 --> 00:44:38,673
you'll be a director soon,
615
00:44:38,876 --> 00:44:42,004
but don't make yourself
pull all-nighters.
616
00:44:42,212 --> 00:44:45,613
You may feel
you've worked hard,
617
00:44:45,816 --> 00:44:48,580
but you won't get good results."
618
00:44:48,786 --> 00:44:51,516
He gave me various tips like that.
619
00:44:55,125 --> 00:44:57,184
It was really -
620
00:44:57,394 --> 00:45:01,490
But many directors
who came from Kyoto
621
00:45:01,699 --> 00:45:04,668
would only work in the evening.
622
00:45:04,868 --> 00:45:08,599
It was hard on the crew.
623
00:45:08,806 --> 00:45:12,867
But those directors for some reason
couldn't function during the day.
624
00:45:13,077 --> 00:45:15,170
Many of them had that habit.
625
00:45:15,379 --> 00:45:20,578
A studio was a good place to work,
with soundstages and space,
626
00:45:20,784 --> 00:45:24,550
people bustling about,
projects being born.
627
00:45:24,755 --> 00:45:27,849
Fights erupted,
and love bloomed as well.
628
00:45:28,058 --> 00:45:31,585
Most of us were moving at a run
when off the set,
629
00:45:31,795 --> 00:45:34,195
because we were so busy.
630
00:45:34,398 --> 00:45:37,959
Toei's employees were known for
always running, and similarly at Toho.
631
00:45:38,168 --> 00:45:41,331
Yes, we were always
on the run.
632
00:45:42,573 --> 00:45:45,337
Did you serve in the war?
633
00:45:45,542 --> 00:45:49,944
I wrote about this in my book
Something Like an Autobiography.
634
00:45:50,147 --> 00:45:55,312
My father was
an army instructor.
635
00:45:55,519 --> 00:45:59,511
At the physical examination
for draftees,
636
00:45:59,723 --> 00:46:02,658
when I stood
in front of this inspector,
637
00:46:03,260 --> 00:46:05,956
he asked,
"Are you Isamu Kurosawa's son?"
638
00:46:06,163 --> 00:46:08,188
I said I was.
639
00:46:08,432 --> 00:46:10,457
Then he asked,
"Is your father well?"
640
00:46:10,667 --> 00:46:12,430
I replied, "Yes."
641
00:46:12,803 --> 00:46:17,399
"Well, you look frail," he continued,
642
00:46:17,608 --> 00:46:19,872
and he advised me to do
certain exercises.
643
00:46:20,077 --> 00:46:25,447
Then he said military service
wasn't the only way to serve the nation.
644
00:46:25,649 --> 00:46:29,016
My brother had been injured
in the cavalry unit.
645
00:46:29,219 --> 00:46:32,552
The man said, "I'm sorry
about your brother's injury.
646
00:46:32,756 --> 00:46:36,714
I want you to serve the nation
647
00:46:36,927 --> 00:46:40,021
in other ways
than being in the military."
648
00:46:40,230 --> 00:46:42,926
Then, when I reached
the last clerk, he said,
649
00:46:43,133 --> 00:46:45,692
"You're exempted
from military service."
650
00:46:45,903 --> 00:46:48,531
The first man had arranged
the exemption for me.
651
00:46:48,739 --> 00:46:52,231
So I didn't serve
in the war at all.
652
00:46:53,577 --> 00:46:56,910
There wasn't even
a roll call at the end.
653
00:46:57,114 --> 00:47:01,346
Near the end of the war,
after the air raid over Tokyo,
654
00:47:01,718 --> 00:47:07,053
it was the day of the Yokohama air raid
that I was summoned to a roll call.
655
00:47:08,725 --> 00:47:12,525
When I responded
to the summons,
656
00:47:12,729 --> 00:47:15,424
I found myself
among all these handicapped people.
657
00:47:15,632 --> 00:47:18,294
The man must've classified me
into that group.
658
00:47:20,971 --> 00:47:24,702
I was placed
in this special classification
659
00:47:24,908 --> 00:47:28,071
with the seriously ill
and handicapped.
660
00:47:28,946 --> 00:47:31,540
So I was spared
military service.
661
00:47:31,915 --> 00:47:36,352
But my friends joked that
I was rejected due to my height.
662
00:47:36,553 --> 00:47:42,013
- There wasn't a uniform in your size.
- Right. They teased me like that.
663
00:47:42,226 --> 00:47:44,558
So I didn't serve in the war.
664
00:47:44,761 --> 00:47:48,197
If you had, there might have been
different kinds of Kurosawa films.
665
00:47:48,398 --> 00:47:50,866
Right. When I reflect on it,
666
00:47:51,068 --> 00:47:55,004
I don't feel confident enough
to make a war movie.
667
00:47:55,205 --> 00:47:57,833
Having Ishiro Honda,
who served in the war, as a friend...
668
00:48:00,811 --> 00:48:04,144
it feels rather -
669
00:48:04,348 --> 00:48:07,875
I'd feel odd
making a war movie.
670
00:48:08,085 --> 00:48:10,076
I don't know
the reality of battle.
671
00:48:10,287 --> 00:48:13,586
But some have made
war movies without the experience.
672
00:48:13,790 --> 00:48:18,489
Did your house burn
during the Tokyo air raid?
673
00:48:18,695 --> 00:48:20,993
Yes, it did.
674
00:48:21,198 --> 00:48:28,229
I was living in Ebisu at the time,
675
00:48:29,206 --> 00:48:33,700
and studio people told me to move,
because Ebisu might get attacked.
676
00:48:33,911 --> 00:48:36,243
The studio lent me
a truck to move
677
00:48:36,446 --> 00:48:42,145
to my father's house in Horikawa,
because it was to become vacant.
678
00:48:42,352 --> 00:48:45,946
So I moved there in a hurry.
679
00:48:46,156 --> 00:48:50,115
Then, the following night,
Ebisu burned.
680
00:48:53,931 --> 00:48:58,095
Areas of Tokyo near here,
like Soshigaya and Seijo, were spared.
681
00:49:00,737 --> 00:49:04,901
Did you think
Japan would lose the war?
682
00:49:05,108 --> 00:49:11,843
I did. And Honda and I agreed
it would be a disaster if Japan won.
683
00:49:12,115 --> 00:49:16,211
If the incompetents in the military
stayed in power -
684
00:49:16,420 --> 00:49:21,255
Honda said this too,
but what we'd most hate
685
00:49:21,458 --> 00:49:24,586
was to see those military guys
have their own way if we won the war
686
00:49:24,795 --> 00:49:28,754
and drive the country
into a deeper mess.
687
00:49:30,934 --> 00:49:35,098
So when you heard
the announcement of Japan's defeat,
688
00:49:35,305 --> 00:49:38,468
you were relieved
and felt a certain joy?
689
00:49:38,675 --> 00:49:41,508
Where were you living at the time?
- Soshigaya.
690
00:49:41,712 --> 00:49:43,873
On the day
of the announcement...
691
00:49:45,816 --> 00:49:48,477
the studio told us to -
692
00:49:48,685 --> 00:49:52,621
We knew Japan had lost the war,
because the studio had informed us
693
00:49:52,823 --> 00:49:58,489
that atomic bombs had been dropped
on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
694
00:49:58,695 --> 00:50:01,163
The government called them
"special bombs."
695
00:50:01,365 --> 00:50:05,529
On the day
of the emperor's announcement,
696
00:50:05,736 --> 00:50:12,004
we were told to come to the studio
to hear the declaration.
697
00:50:13,677 --> 00:50:18,239
As I walked towards the studio
along the Soshigaya highway,
698
00:50:18,448 --> 00:50:20,678
I noticed certain tradesmen,
like fish dealers and grocers,
699
00:50:20,884 --> 00:50:25,082
staring
at their unsheathed swords.
700
00:50:25,522 --> 00:50:32,121
They had this maniacal look,
and I feared what they might do.
701
00:50:33,263 --> 00:50:37,790
They might get violent,
even if the emperor announced defeat.
702
00:50:38,001 --> 00:50:40,697
Then, when I saw them
on the way home,
703
00:50:40,904 --> 00:50:43,600
the same guys were smiling
and sweeping their storefronts.
704
00:50:43,807 --> 00:50:48,904
I thought then that the Japanese
have great flexibility for coping.
705
00:50:49,112 --> 00:50:53,674
But if the emperor had ordered them
to fight, they would have.
706
00:50:54,584 --> 00:50:59,384
When the war was over, what changes
did you think would happen?
707
00:50:59,589 --> 00:51:05,528
It was more a matter
of witnessing how hard
708
00:51:05,729 --> 00:51:08,663
the GHQ
was trying to rebuild Japan.
709
00:51:09,966 --> 00:51:16,895
We couldn't go back
to making movies right away,
710
00:51:17,107 --> 00:51:22,773
so I wrote a one-act play
for Kawaguchi's troupe.
711
00:51:22,979 --> 00:51:26,607
During the war, the Japanese
couldn't speak their minds,
712
00:51:26,817 --> 00:51:31,550
and the play is about everyone
suddenly speaking freely.
713
00:51:31,755 --> 00:51:34,087
It takes place
at a fish dealer's house.
714
00:51:34,291 --> 00:51:39,251
He was a staunch
Tojo worshipper,
715
00:51:39,463 --> 00:51:41,522
and he'd been a family tyrant.
716
00:51:41,731 --> 00:51:46,361
But now the war is over,
his family can finally confront him,
717
00:51:46,570 --> 00:51:51,974
and they shower him
with all their pent-up grievances.
718
00:51:52,175 --> 00:51:56,407
Well, the GHQ summoned me
because of the play.
719
00:51:56,613 --> 00:51:59,582
An American theater professional
at the GHQ liked the play
720
00:51:59,783 --> 00:52:02,980
and wanted to know
how each scene would be played.
721
00:52:03,186 --> 00:52:08,522
In ways like this, the GHQ made
a great effort to rebuild Japan.
722
00:52:08,725 --> 00:52:11,353
- Quite different from Japanese censors.
- Completely.
723
00:52:11,561 --> 00:52:18,524
I was summoned
for The Quiet Duel as well.
724
00:52:18,735 --> 00:52:23,434
I thought they opposed it
because it was about syphilis,
725
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:26,768
but that wasn't the case.
726
00:52:26,977 --> 00:52:31,879
They said that the Japanese view
syphilis as a frightening disease,
727
00:52:32,082 --> 00:52:35,848
and, if diagnosed with it,
tend to give up on their lives,
728
00:52:36,052 --> 00:52:42,218
but it can be cured when combated
with proper medical treatment.
729
00:52:42,425 --> 00:52:45,394
They wanted me to put
that message in the film.
730
00:52:45,595 --> 00:52:48,325
And they told me
I should consult
731
00:52:48,532 --> 00:52:51,501
with a certain doctor
specializing in the treatment
732
00:52:51,701 --> 00:52:54,431
and where I could find him.
733
00:52:54,638 --> 00:52:56,538
An American doctor?
734
00:52:56,740 --> 00:53:00,732
And this doctor helped me
wholeheartedly.
735
00:53:00,944 --> 00:53:03,741
They weren't like
the Japanese censors at all.
736
00:53:06,349 --> 00:53:08,715
Their attitude was so different.
737
00:53:08,919 --> 00:53:14,221
They respected cinema
and film professionals.
738
00:53:14,424 --> 00:53:16,358
It's still the same.
739
00:53:16,560 --> 00:53:21,054
We're treated like VIPs overseas,
but in Japan we're seen as tramps.
740
00:53:21,264 --> 00:53:25,064
That's an exaggeration,
but actually I feel the same way.
741
00:53:25,268 --> 00:53:27,998
I feel respected
when I visit foreign countries.
742
00:53:28,205 --> 00:53:34,165
It's because the general public there
respects filmmakers.
743
00:53:34,377 --> 00:53:36,777
After the war,
744
00:53:36,980 --> 00:53:41,883
seeing America's power,
and the world changing around you,
745
00:53:42,085 --> 00:53:47,216
did you feel
that your style of film
746
00:53:47,424 --> 00:53:52,452
fit in well with the new world?
747
00:53:52,929 --> 00:53:56,365
Well, I didn't know why,
748
00:53:56,633 --> 00:54:00,625
but people responded to my films.
749
00:54:01,638 --> 00:54:05,335
I found it puzzling.
In the case of Madadayo, for example,
750
00:54:05,842 --> 00:54:08,640
I thought people overseas
wouldn't understand it,
751
00:54:08,845 --> 00:54:12,281
but it got a great response.
752
00:54:12,482 --> 00:54:16,111
Yes, I went to Montreal recently
and heard stories about it.
753
00:54:18,021 --> 00:54:22,651
They understand some parts of it
better than the Japanese audience.
754
00:54:22,859 --> 00:54:28,991
For instance, they thought
the professor's wife was wonderful
755
00:54:29,933 --> 00:54:32,231
because she truly cared
for her husband.
756
00:54:32,435 --> 00:54:35,096
The teacher-student
relationship in Japan
757
00:54:35,305 --> 00:54:37,636
seems to have elicited
great interest.
758
00:54:37,841 --> 00:54:40,469
And the wife.
759
00:54:40,677 --> 00:54:44,545
Women were especially touched
by the character.
760
00:54:44,748 --> 00:54:49,947
They said they really understood
how much she loved her husband.
761
00:54:50,153 --> 00:54:52,314
The response surprised me.
762
00:54:52,522 --> 00:54:57,288
I went to Montreal thinking people
overseas wouldn't understand it,
763
00:54:57,494 --> 00:54:59,689
but I was wrong.
764
00:54:59,896 --> 00:55:04,128
I received a letter
from Montreal yesterday
765
00:55:04,334 --> 00:55:08,361
that called Madadayo
one of my masterpieces.
766
00:55:08,571 --> 00:55:12,029
A response like that
takes me by surprise.
767
00:55:12,742 --> 00:55:19,375
I don't know why people
respond to my films.
768
00:55:19,582 --> 00:55:23,484
But I think what appeals most
to the foreign audience
769
00:55:23,687 --> 00:55:27,054
is the fact I'm not seeking
to please them.
770
00:55:29,326 --> 00:55:31,988
You can sense
that kind of movie right away.
771
00:55:32,796 --> 00:55:36,323
If you try to add appeal
772
00:55:36,966 --> 00:55:40,060
by playing up Japanese qualities
773
00:55:40,270 --> 00:55:43,706
and depict a story
that Westerners will find exotic,
774
00:55:43,907 --> 00:55:48,139
they react very negatively.
775
00:55:49,713 --> 00:55:53,809
But if you, as a Japanese person,
just tell a story
776
00:55:54,017 --> 00:55:56,508
about the concerns
of Japanese people,
777
00:55:56,720 --> 00:56:00,884
it will appeal to people worldwide,
as every country has similar concerns.
778
00:56:01,091 --> 00:56:04,788
I guess that's what people find
most appealing about my films.
779
00:56:05,729 --> 00:56:08,993
It's no good to try to cater
to the overseas market.
780
00:56:09,199 --> 00:56:12,362
I've been asked if I make
special concessions
781
00:56:12,569 --> 00:56:15,595
to appeal to foreign audiences.
782
00:56:15,805 --> 00:56:20,002
It's precisely because I do nothing
of the sort that they appeal to them.
783
00:56:20,210 --> 00:56:22,872
I've never entertained
the thought, in fact.
784
00:56:23,313 --> 00:56:25,372
As I said at the start
of this interview,
785
00:56:25,582 --> 00:56:30,542
you are somewhat
atypical of Japanese people.
786
00:56:30,754 --> 00:56:35,623
What you've just said proves that.
But you've always been that way.
787
00:56:35,825 --> 00:56:38,419
You've never emphasized
the Japanese aspect of things,
788
00:56:38,628 --> 00:56:41,825
nor have you tried to cater
to overseas audiences.
789
00:56:42,031 --> 00:56:45,364
Even the movies
you made soon after the war
790
00:56:45,568 --> 00:56:48,332
were very different
from typical Japanese films.
791
00:56:48,538 --> 00:56:51,200
I recall seeing them as a child.
792
00:56:51,408 --> 00:56:54,844
I don't see my films
as being different.
793
00:56:55,845 --> 00:57:03,616
In the case of Sanshiro Sugata,
I was forced to insert a certain line.
794
00:57:03,820 --> 00:57:09,725
I had to insert the line, "Loyalty
and filial piety are the ways of man."
795
00:57:09,926 --> 00:57:13,225
I didn't have any choice.
- You had to comply.
796
00:57:15,665 --> 00:57:18,828
I think most directors
go through this experience,
797
00:57:19,035 --> 00:57:22,299
but in the beginning, you're just
caught up in making movies.
798
00:57:22,572 --> 00:57:26,406
Then at some point,
you become aware
799
00:57:26,609 --> 00:57:29,442
that you're
a certain kind of director.
800
00:57:29,646 --> 00:57:33,309
That is, there comes a time
when you discover
801
00:57:33,516 --> 00:57:36,417
that you want to make
a particular kind of movie.
802
00:57:36,619 --> 00:57:40,578
Which of the films
you made after the war
803
00:57:40,790 --> 00:57:45,124
did you feel was the kind
of direction you wanted to take?
804
00:57:46,362 --> 00:57:50,458
In my earlier films,
it felt like I was putting in
805
00:57:51,701 --> 00:57:56,900
everything I'd learned.
806
00:57:57,106 --> 00:58:03,841
But with Drunken Angel,
I suddenly felt sort of liberated.
807
00:58:06,149 --> 00:58:09,049
It felt like I got bolder.
808
00:58:09,252 --> 00:58:12,710
I didn't hold myself back
even when writing it.
809
00:58:12,922 --> 00:58:15,823
That was the film
where I began to feel that.
810
00:58:16,025 --> 00:58:21,053
Other than that, I've never thought
about discovering my direction.
811
00:58:21,264 --> 00:58:27,169
What concerns me most
is being natural.
812
00:58:27,370 --> 00:58:33,138
I always remain natural
and follow my instincts when I work.
813
00:58:33,343 --> 00:58:39,009
I don't do things
in any particularly strategic way.
814
00:58:41,150 --> 00:58:46,178
That's how I approach
characters in my films.
815
00:58:46,389 --> 00:58:48,289
Even with human relationships -
816
00:58:48,491 --> 00:58:50,584
When you read Dostoyevsky's
novels, for example,
817
00:58:50,793 --> 00:58:54,354
it's mind-boggling how thoroughly
he depicts human relationships.
818
00:58:54,564 --> 00:58:57,055
I read quite a few
of his novels when I was young,
819
00:58:57,333 --> 00:58:59,597
and it must be
filtering out into my films,
820
00:58:59,802 --> 00:59:02,862
though I haven't come close
to Dostoyevsky's heights.
821
00:59:03,072 --> 00:59:08,635
Only through literature
can you tackle something on that scale.
822
00:59:13,049 --> 00:59:16,485
I made The Idiot, and it wasn't
at all a successful adaptation.
823
00:59:16,686 --> 00:59:20,645
Still, having taken on
the challenge of a work like that,
824
00:59:20,857 --> 00:59:25,590
I think I learned a lot
from the experience.
825
00:59:25,795 --> 00:59:27,820
Once I began working on it,
826
00:59:28,031 --> 00:59:31,000
the immensity of the project
dawned on me.
827
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:36,035
I thought to myself,
"What was I thinking?"
828
00:59:37,607 --> 00:59:42,237
I felt the weight of Dostoyevsky
on my shoulders.
829
00:59:42,445 --> 00:59:45,710
There's one scene...
830
00:59:47,116 --> 00:59:53,851
where the idiot, played by Masayuki Mori,
comes to Setsuko Hara's party...
831
00:59:56,960 --> 01:00:02,227
and says,
"You are a nice person by nature.
832
01:00:02,432 --> 01:00:04,399
You really are a nice person."
833
01:00:04,601 --> 01:00:10,836
Hara asked me,
"What expression should I use?"
834
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:13,167
I was sort of taken aback.
835
01:00:13,376 --> 01:00:16,345
I asked Nomura, my first AD,
to get a copy of the novel.
836
01:00:16,546 --> 01:00:22,314
I looked up the scene, and it said
that Nastasia smiled "crookedly."
837
01:00:24,854 --> 01:00:29,450
She must've smiled that way
because the idiot was right.
838
01:00:29,659 --> 01:00:32,594
But I hadn't really read
the passage that closely.
839
01:00:32,795 --> 01:00:34,854
It was only because Hara asked
840
01:00:35,064 --> 01:00:37,861
that I noticed the description
of Nastasia's smile.
841
01:00:38,067 --> 01:00:40,661
So I said to Hara,
"Smile crookedly."
842
01:00:40,870 --> 01:00:44,431
When we did a test shot,
with her smiling crookedly,
843
01:00:44,641 --> 01:00:52,047
Mori reacted with amazement and
exclaimed, "That was great direction!"
844
01:00:52,248 --> 01:00:54,876
I said, "It wasn't me.
It's what Dostoyevsky wrote."
845
01:00:55,084 --> 01:00:59,919
So when you tackle
a great work of literature,
846
01:01:00,123 --> 01:01:02,921
you make
some amazing discoveries.
847
01:01:03,826 --> 01:01:08,388
I love War and Peace
and have read it countless times,
848
01:01:08,598 --> 01:01:13,763
but every time, I find something
I hadn't noticed before.
849
01:01:13,970 --> 01:01:17,234
It's fascinating
each time I read it.
850
01:01:18,641 --> 01:01:25,205
A simple line in a piece
of literature can be brilliant,
851
01:01:25,415 --> 01:01:28,714
but a lot of times,
you read on without noticing it.
852
01:01:29,385 --> 01:01:33,788
What it expresses
is just superb.
853
01:01:33,990 --> 01:01:39,950
You've mentioned how thoroughly
literature can depict human beings.
854
01:01:40,163 --> 01:01:44,600
In Dostoyevsky's novels, it's as though
he's experimenting in a laboratory,
855
01:01:45,935 --> 01:01:51,464
having one "human atom"
clashing with another.
856
01:01:51,674 --> 01:01:54,905
I've been reading novels like that
since childhood.
857
01:01:55,111 --> 01:01:59,877
When you come up with an idea
for a script or theme,
858
01:02:00,083 --> 01:02:04,952
do you first imagine characters?
859
01:02:05,154 --> 01:02:07,349
Well...
860
01:02:09,726 --> 01:02:12,627
Do characters come to you first,
before the story?
861
01:02:12,829 --> 01:02:16,196
It's more like I run with an idea
that I find interesting.
862
01:02:16,399 --> 01:02:19,060
That's the most important thing,
of course.
863
01:02:19,268 --> 01:02:22,431
Critics may read
whatever they like into my films,
864
01:02:22,638 --> 01:02:26,074
but I don't make movies
as deliberately as they think.
865
01:02:28,211 --> 01:02:32,113
Whatever they see in my films is there
as a part of what I found interesting.
866
01:02:32,315 --> 01:02:36,945
If I'd tried to depict
those things critics see,
867
01:02:37,253 --> 01:02:42,054
don't you think it'd be
tiresome to watch?
868
01:02:42,258 --> 01:02:46,819
I make films about things
that I really find fascinating.
869
01:02:47,029 --> 01:02:51,261
In doing so, I may end up
examining human nature.
870
01:02:51,467 --> 01:02:56,837
But if you try to present
some kind of theory in your film,
871
01:02:57,306 --> 01:02:59,706
you'll fail to depict anything.
872
01:02:59,909 --> 01:03:03,401
It's very difficult to find
the right balance.
873
01:03:04,480 --> 01:03:08,940
So a study of human nature results
from depicting what you find interesting.
874
01:03:09,152 --> 01:03:10,619
I think so.
875
01:03:10,820 --> 01:03:13,516
What I really find interesting -
876
01:03:13,723 --> 01:03:19,025
As I depict what fascinates me,
a human portrait unfolds.
877
01:03:19,228 --> 01:03:25,224
What's interesting
varies from person to person.
878
01:03:25,434 --> 01:03:28,528
It's based on individual taste.
- That's right.
879
01:03:28,738 --> 01:03:33,437
Among those things that interest you,
it seems you always incorporate
880
01:03:33,643 --> 01:03:35,736
a portrayal of human beings
pushed to the limit.
881
01:03:35,945 --> 01:03:38,573
I believe so.
882
01:03:38,781 --> 01:03:43,183
I'm not sure how that happens.
I don't have the brain to work that out.
883
01:03:43,386 --> 01:03:47,322
- You're being modest.
- No, really.
884
01:03:48,791 --> 01:03:53,194
I can deal with things
in a concrete way.
885
01:03:53,396 --> 01:03:57,662
But when something
is described in abstractions,
886
01:03:57,867 --> 01:04:02,395
I have no idea
how to depict it.
887
01:04:02,605 --> 01:04:07,008
If the way a character smiled
or an action he took
888
01:04:07,743 --> 01:04:12,009
is described in concrete terms,
I can deal with that.
889
01:04:12,215 --> 01:04:14,979
Like Nastasia's crooked smile
that you described earlier.
890
01:04:15,852 --> 01:04:20,221
At one point, you often wrote
scripts with other writers.
891
01:04:20,423 --> 01:04:23,756
When working that way,
did you read what others wrote,
892
01:04:23,960 --> 01:04:26,656
sort out the inferior writing
and have them rewrite it?
893
01:04:26,863 --> 01:04:29,297
We'd write around a table
until 5:00 p.m.
894
01:04:29,498 --> 01:04:32,558
Then we'd collect
what we wrote into a pile.
895
01:04:34,270 --> 01:04:38,036
I'd sort out what was no good.
Only the usable parts would be left.
896
01:04:38,241 --> 01:04:43,804
We'd all write the same scene.
Then I'd weed out any subpar writing.
897
01:04:44,013 --> 01:04:46,504
I heard that when you wrote
with Taniguchi,
898
01:04:46,716 --> 01:04:49,776
you tore up his pages
right in front of him.
899
01:04:49,986 --> 01:04:52,921
Well, I felt guilty doing that
sometimes.
900
01:04:53,122 --> 01:04:55,682
Everyone wrote
diligently until dusk,
901
01:04:55,892 --> 01:04:58,827
and then I'd tear up pages
that were unacceptable.
902
01:05:01,230 --> 01:05:04,290
- You'd rip them up, just like that?
- Yes.
903
01:05:04,500 --> 01:05:06,468
But you didn't mean
to hurt their feelings.
904
01:05:06,669 --> 01:05:09,194
No, and my writing partners
were used to it,
905
01:05:09,405 --> 01:05:11,600
though it must've
angered them at first.
906
01:05:11,807 --> 01:05:15,334
And after tearing up their writing,
you'd have dinner together?
907
01:05:15,544 --> 01:05:20,538
Yes. One time, though,
I tore up pages that I needed.
908
01:05:20,750 --> 01:05:24,948
I was gathering all the selected pages
and noticed two pages missing.
909
01:05:25,154 --> 01:05:29,818
Just then, the proprietress of the inn
came to inquire about our dinner.
910
01:05:30,026 --> 01:05:33,223
"Not now!" I yelled at her,
irritated over the missing pages.
911
01:05:34,463 --> 01:05:38,991
All of us searched the room and
found them among the ripped-up pages.
912
01:05:41,504 --> 01:05:44,667
I mended the two ripped-up pages
and had them copied,
913
01:05:44,874 --> 01:05:47,069
and finally that day's work
was done.
914
01:05:48,277 --> 01:05:50,745
Then I opened the door
to call the proprietress
915
01:05:50,947 --> 01:05:53,142
and found her sitting
on the floor outside our room.
916
01:05:53,349 --> 01:05:55,977
She'd been waiting there
the whole time.
917
01:05:56,185 --> 01:06:00,645
I felt bad.
I'd completely forgotten about her.
918
01:06:00,856 --> 01:06:03,188
So there was that kind of blunder.
919
01:06:03,693 --> 01:06:07,220
Depending on the writer -
920
01:06:07,430 --> 01:06:09,921
Oguni is one
of the more interesting writers.
921
01:06:11,834 --> 01:06:16,430
He's really good at Japanese chess.
- Hideo Oguni?
922
01:06:17,239 --> 01:06:24,042
Oguni once played two of us
blindfolded and still won.
923
01:06:25,214 --> 01:06:29,810
He's extremely insightful.
924
01:06:31,087 --> 01:06:34,784
When we'd get stuck
on a particularly difficult passage,
925
01:06:34,991 --> 01:06:37,391
he'd often come up
with a solution.
926
01:06:37,593 --> 01:06:40,254
I once read somewhere
how you described Oguni.
927
01:06:40,463 --> 01:06:44,923
You stated that people think you value
Oguni for his technical skills,
928
01:06:45,134 --> 01:06:50,800
but that he actually provides a spiritual
backbone for your writing team.
929
01:06:51,007 --> 01:06:55,535
I was very impressed
by that statement.
930
01:06:55,745 --> 01:07:00,705
He studied under
Saneatsu Mushanokoji, the novelist.
931
01:07:00,916 --> 01:07:03,180
That's his background.
932
01:07:04,487 --> 01:07:07,854
So he provides a consistent view
of morals and human beings?
933
01:07:08,057 --> 01:07:12,517
Yes, and he's also very perceptive.
934
01:07:12,728 --> 01:07:15,663
Say he leaves on an assignment
while we work on a script.
935
01:07:15,865 --> 01:07:18,332
He returns, reads what
we've written in his absence,
936
01:07:18,534 --> 01:07:24,029
and says, "The story's
veering off in the wrong direction."
937
01:07:27,343 --> 01:07:30,107
He shows us that it won't do
to take the easy way out.
938
01:07:30,312 --> 01:07:34,714
You shouldn't steer the story in
the direction you're comfortable with.
939
01:07:34,917 --> 01:07:39,854
"The story should go this way,
but it's veering off like this," he says.
940
01:07:40,056 --> 01:07:46,120
He has that knack for accurately
assessing the problem.
941
01:07:46,328 --> 01:07:49,627
I always valued
that ability of his.
942
01:07:50,266 --> 01:07:55,363
There's a scene where the protagonists
need to pass through a checkpoint.
943
01:07:56,072 --> 01:07:58,040
That was -
944
01:07:58,240 --> 01:08:00,970
I heard that one team of writers
wrote from the protagonists' POV,
945
01:08:01,177 --> 01:08:03,236
and another
from that of the guards.
946
01:08:07,583 --> 01:08:10,211
We struggled over that scene
for about a week.
947
01:08:10,419 --> 01:08:14,219
One of us would suggest crossing
the river, and I'd turn that idea down.
948
01:08:14,423 --> 01:08:16,550
Then other ideas were rejected
one after another.
949
01:08:16,759 --> 01:08:18,852
One writer said,
"There's no way to get through."
950
01:08:19,060 --> 01:08:20,755
I said, "There's gotta be a way!"
951
01:08:21,029 --> 01:08:23,122
Oguni sat quietly like this
the whole time.
952
01:08:25,901 --> 01:08:27,892
Day after day,
he just sat like this.
953
01:08:28,104 --> 01:08:31,665
Then at last he said,
"I've got an idea!"
954
01:08:31,874 --> 01:08:38,676
It was to have one of the protagonists
intentionally report to the guards
955
01:08:38,881 --> 01:08:42,044
that he'd found a piece of firewood
with gold concealed inside.
956
01:08:43,152 --> 01:08:45,586
Normally you'd want
to conceal that.
957
01:08:45,787 --> 01:08:51,249
By reporting it, he causes
a commotion among the guards.
958
01:08:51,460 --> 01:08:56,420
Then, when he asks them
to return it to him,
959
01:08:56,631 --> 01:08:59,225
they ignore him
and tell him to get lost.
960
01:08:59,535 --> 01:09:01,627
Oguni came up with that idea.
961
01:09:01,837 --> 01:09:04,601
It's not easy
to hit upon an idea like that.
962
01:09:04,807 --> 01:09:10,211
But Oguni would come through
with an inspired solution,
963
01:09:10,412 --> 01:09:12,403
something unexpected.
964
01:09:12,615 --> 01:09:15,584
You wouldn't think
of something like that,
965
01:09:15,783 --> 01:09:18,479
to reveal the very thing
that should be hidden.
966
01:09:18,687 --> 01:09:20,518
To do the complete opposite.
967
01:09:20,723 --> 01:09:23,715
It's easy to say it,
but you don't hit upon it so easily.
968
01:09:23,926 --> 01:09:28,420
In hindsight, it's a simple idea
to do the reverse of the normal.
969
01:09:28,631 --> 01:09:32,658
But it's not easy to think of it.
We tend to see things in a certain way.
970
01:09:33,502 --> 01:09:36,960
So you're quite insistent
that your writers and crews
971
01:09:37,173 --> 01:09:40,267
come up with solutions?
- Yes, I am.
972
01:09:42,044 --> 01:09:48,278
I work really quickly, though everyone
seems to think otherwise.
973
01:09:48,484 --> 01:09:54,423
The thing is, I take plenty of time
for thorough preparation.
974
01:09:56,492 --> 01:10:00,656
I'm sure you've made
difficult demands on your whole crew,
975
01:10:00,863 --> 01:10:03,024
but who's had
to bear them the most?
976
01:10:03,232 --> 01:10:06,463
My crew members
are all used to my demands,
977
01:10:06,669 --> 01:10:09,604
and they don't seem to find them
particularly difficult.
978
01:10:10,272 --> 01:10:15,676
You mentioned you spend
the most time on preparation.
979
01:10:15,878 --> 01:10:19,370
When you prepare thoroughly,
980
01:10:20,182 --> 01:10:22,411
you don't waste time on the set.
981
01:10:22,618 --> 01:10:29,148
So a day of shooting starts
at 9:00 a.m. And ends at 3:00 p.m.
982
01:10:29,358 --> 01:10:34,557
I usually have two or three cameras
rolling at the same time.
983
01:10:35,631 --> 01:10:40,000
For shooting the scene
of the Maadha kai,
984
01:10:41,270 --> 01:10:45,502
that is, the first gathering
of the Maadha kai, in Madadayo,
985
01:10:45,708 --> 01:10:51,942
the production team and ADs
estimated it would take one month.
986
01:10:52,147 --> 01:10:55,981
To shoot that one very long scene
of the Maadha kai.
987
01:10:56,185 --> 01:10:59,882
But I shot it in six days,
and everyone was amazed.
988
01:11:00,789 --> 01:11:06,420
It was because I shot
the entire scene in a single take.
989
01:11:06,629 --> 01:11:11,657
For instance, the scene where they sing
"One-two, Mr. Pharmacist"
990
01:11:11,867 --> 01:11:15,667
was shot in a rectangular room.
991
01:11:17,840 --> 01:11:23,301
First I'd shoot the scene
from this side using three cameras.
992
01:11:23,512 --> 01:11:27,675
I'd shoot the entire sequence
that way once.
993
01:11:27,883 --> 01:11:32,718
Then I'd shoot again with lenses
and camera positions changed a little.
994
01:11:32,921 --> 01:11:37,551
I did that three times from each
of the four sides of the room,
995
01:11:37,760 --> 01:11:39,660
so there was a total of -
996
01:11:43,465 --> 01:11:45,797
- Twelve different shots.
- No.
997
01:11:47,803 --> 01:11:53,605
Three cameras were rolling,
so there were nine shots per angle.
998
01:11:54,777 --> 01:11:57,644
So four times nine
makes 36 shots.
999
01:12:00,416 --> 01:12:05,615
- You're right.
- That's a lot of footage.
1000
01:12:05,821 --> 01:12:09,257
Everyone said it'd be
an ordeal to edit,
1001
01:12:10,192 --> 01:12:13,025
but I started at 9:00 a.m.
And was done by 3:00 p.m.
1002
01:12:13,228 --> 01:12:18,325
I threw out whatever didn't look
interesting, one piece at a time.
1003
01:12:18,534 --> 01:12:23,800
I weeded out parts I didn't want,
so I'd only have the footage I needed.
1004
01:12:24,006 --> 01:12:26,998
Then I simply had
to piece together the good parts.
1005
01:12:27,609 --> 01:12:30,009
So I work quickly
with that kind of task.
1006
01:12:30,212 --> 01:12:32,703
Before the camera starts rolling,
1007
01:12:33,482 --> 01:12:37,851
do you spend
a great deal of time on rehearsal?
1008
01:12:38,053 --> 01:12:40,214
Well...
1009
01:12:42,157 --> 01:12:46,218
I don't spend
a particularly long time.
1010
01:12:46,428 --> 01:12:52,731
Before rehearsing, though,
I give instructions on what I want.
1011
01:12:52,935 --> 01:12:58,168
So you direct where to position
the cameras before entering the set.
1012
01:12:58,374 --> 01:13:01,172
No, actually,
I give instructions to the actors.
1013
01:13:01,377 --> 01:13:04,073
I emphasize what kind of acting
I want from them.
1014
01:13:04,279 --> 01:13:06,839
Camera positions
are not their concern.
1015
01:13:07,049 --> 01:13:08,710
I see.
1016
01:13:08,917 --> 01:13:14,253
On my set, actors don't know
which camera is trained on them,
1017
01:13:14,456 --> 01:13:18,517
so they have to act naturally
and not play to a camera.
1018
01:13:20,028 --> 01:13:24,692
Say there were three cameras
shooting a scene.
1019
01:13:24,900 --> 01:13:28,802
Camera A would usually shoot
the establishing shot,
1020
01:13:30,239 --> 01:13:34,504
focusing on the center of the action
and panning a little.
1021
01:13:34,710 --> 01:13:36,940
Another would shoot close-ups.
1022
01:13:37,146 --> 01:13:42,584
That camera would be
the furthest from the actors.
1023
01:13:42,785 --> 01:13:46,778
That way, there's no way
for actors to play just to the camera.
1024
01:13:46,989 --> 01:13:49,480
They have to give
a fully rounded performance
1025
01:13:49,691 --> 01:13:53,889
and forget about
performing to the camera.
1026
01:13:54,096 --> 01:13:57,998
The best thing I gained
from setting up the cameras that way
1027
01:13:58,200 --> 01:14:00,498
is that actors stopped
playing to them.
1028
01:14:00,702 --> 01:14:02,966
They have to perform
from every angle,
1029
01:14:03,172 --> 01:14:07,074
because they have no idea
which camera is shooting them or how.
1030
01:14:08,043 --> 01:14:11,638
Your use of multiple camera setup
has become legendary.
1031
01:14:11,847 --> 01:14:14,008
I believe you first used it
on Seven Samurai.
1032
01:14:14,216 --> 01:14:18,846
We had to because of the rain scene,
with the horrendously muddy ground.
1033
01:14:19,054 --> 01:14:24,185
Otherwise, we couldn't make
the action look continuous,
1034
01:14:25,127 --> 01:14:27,561
even if we tried.
1035
01:14:27,763 --> 01:14:30,197
So we resorted
to shooting the scene
1036
01:14:30,399 --> 01:14:33,527
with all three cameras rolling
at the same time.
1037
01:14:33,735 --> 01:14:35,726
The result was very interesting.
1038
01:14:36,171 --> 01:14:38,162
That's how it came about.
1039
01:14:38,373 --> 01:14:41,308
You've employed it since
for interior shots as well.
1040
01:14:42,778 --> 01:14:49,513
Earlier you talked about capturing
the depths of human nature.
1041
01:14:49,718 --> 01:14:54,621
By drawing out naturalistic acting
from actors through the camera setup,
1042
01:14:54,823 --> 01:14:58,452
are you aiming for realism
rather than make-believe?
1043
01:15:00,796 --> 01:15:03,162
It's more like -
1044
01:15:03,365 --> 01:15:07,358
What the camera reveals most
is an actor's self-consciousness,
1045
01:15:07,569 --> 01:15:09,469
which would turn the viewers off.
1046
01:15:09,671 --> 01:15:14,768
To eliminate that self-consciousness is
the most difficult task for the director,
1047
01:15:14,977 --> 01:15:17,001
as well as for the actors.
1048
01:15:17,212 --> 01:15:20,238
But the multiple camera setup
1049
01:15:20,449 --> 01:15:23,474
automatically eliminates
the actors' self-consciousness.
1050
01:15:25,354 --> 01:15:30,883
The longest shot I've filmed
is the tunnel segment in Dreams.
1051
01:15:31,093 --> 01:15:34,085
It's 16 minutes long,
which wouldn't fit on one reel.
1052
01:15:34,296 --> 01:15:38,255
So we made use of the part
where the actors do an about-face.
1053
01:15:39,468 --> 01:15:42,403
On each actor's backpack
was a lightbulb
1054
01:15:42,604 --> 01:15:45,630
to light the face
of the person behind.
1055
01:15:45,841 --> 01:15:50,244
Since we couldn't use regular
lighting equipment for that shot,
1056
01:15:50,445 --> 01:15:55,576
the lightbulb on each backpack
lit the face of the next actor.
1057
01:15:55,784 --> 01:15:59,879
But as the actors did an about-face,
the lightbulbs would be revealed.
1058
01:16:00,088 --> 01:16:02,648
So we needed to intercut
just before that happened.
1059
01:16:02,858 --> 01:16:05,622
I gave the following instructions:
1060
01:16:05,827 --> 01:16:09,627
"The lighting crew will remove
the lightbulbs as soon as I say 'stop.'
1061
01:16:09,831 --> 01:16:13,790
Meanwhile, the camera crew
will change magazines.
1062
01:16:14,002 --> 01:16:18,405
Then, when I say 'action! '
We'll resume shooting."
1063
01:16:18,607 --> 01:16:21,599
All that time, the actors
were to stay perfectly still.
1064
01:16:21,810 --> 01:16:24,574
As a result,
we got that 16-minute scene.
1065
01:16:26,048 --> 01:16:30,313
We rehearsed on the set,
and it was initially 20 minutes long.
1066
01:16:32,621 --> 01:16:35,283
Then, as we rehearsed
further on the set
1067
01:16:35,490 --> 01:16:41,394
and on the actual location,
everything became condensed.
1068
01:16:41,597 --> 01:16:48,126
The scene improved greatly because
it gained this condensed energy.
1069
01:16:48,337 --> 01:16:51,272
And it made the scene shorter.
1070
01:16:52,007 --> 01:16:57,946
When you employ a cutback shot
like that, it generally slackens the scene.
1071
01:16:58,146 --> 01:17:03,777
But with tightly controlled shooting,
the scene's energy intensifies.
1072
01:17:03,986 --> 01:17:06,580
I think Mizoguchi's films
have that kind of energy.
1073
01:17:06,788 --> 01:17:09,757
It makes the film
more powerful too.
1074
01:17:11,193 --> 01:17:13,957
It definitely shortens a scene.
1075
01:17:15,797 --> 01:17:17,731
And it improves the scene.
1076
01:17:17,933 --> 01:17:22,495
So condensing like that
shortens shooting time?
1077
01:17:22,704 --> 01:17:29,166
Yes. Generally one scene
will be shot in a single take.
1078
01:17:29,378 --> 01:17:31,539
This hasn't changed even today,
1079
01:17:31,747 --> 01:17:34,011
but when Japanese cinema
was at its peak,
1080
01:17:34,216 --> 01:17:40,485
you had the cream of the crop
of Japanese actors in your films.
1081
01:17:40,722 --> 01:17:46,786
Did you always keep
a sharp eye out for the right actors?
1082
01:17:46,995 --> 01:17:48,986
Yes, of course.
1083
01:17:49,197 --> 01:17:51,392
That's why I've made shrewd use
of Shochiku actors
1084
01:17:51,600 --> 01:17:54,831
such as Reikichi Kawamura
and Shinichi Himori.
1085
01:17:55,037 --> 01:18:00,373
When you like a certain actor's work,
it stays in your mind.
1086
01:18:00,575 --> 01:18:04,204
So I watch television quite a bit
1087
01:18:04,413 --> 01:18:09,111
to find actors who interest me,
as was the case with Joji Tokoro.
1088
01:18:09,317 --> 01:18:13,014
I watch television fairly often
for that purpose.
1089
01:18:13,221 --> 01:18:16,053
The other day, I read an interview
in which you said
1090
01:18:16,258 --> 01:18:19,193
that Japanese people
look different today,
1091
01:18:19,394 --> 01:18:22,727
and modern actors don't have
the right faces for period roles.
1092
01:18:22,931 --> 01:18:27,561
I feel that way when it comes
to actors in period dramas.
1093
01:18:28,437 --> 01:18:32,305
In olden times, a 20-year old
used to be a real adult.
1094
01:18:32,507 --> 01:18:39,811
In the Meiji era -
What was his name? Kogoro Katsura?
1095
01:18:42,517 --> 01:18:44,849
He later changed his name
to Takayoshi Kido.
1096
01:18:45,921 --> 01:18:49,084
The movers behind the Meiji restoration
were in their 20s.
1097
01:18:49,291 --> 01:18:54,661
Many government ministers
of that era were in their 20s.
1098
01:18:54,863 --> 01:18:57,093
Today it's a different story.
1099
01:18:57,299 --> 01:19:01,759
Nobunaga Oda and Shingen Takeda
did amazing things while still young.
1100
01:19:01,970 --> 01:19:06,339
But young actors today don't have
the right look to play those roles.
1101
01:19:06,541 --> 01:19:10,272
The men of olden times managed
impressive feats at a young age.
1102
01:19:12,547 --> 01:19:17,985
Only one piece of Yoshitsune's
writing remains today.
1103
01:19:18,887 --> 01:19:22,755
Done in his 20s...
1104
01:19:24,459 --> 01:19:29,487
it exudes a maturity
beyond his age.
1105
01:19:30,565 --> 01:19:34,092
So you can't cast an actor
to play Yoshitsune
1106
01:19:34,302 --> 01:19:39,467
just because he's the same age
as Yoshitsune was.
1107
01:19:39,674 --> 01:19:44,509
He'll have to undergo
proper training to play the character.
1108
01:19:44,713 --> 01:19:48,148
I don't think it's possible anymore
for an actor in the right age category
1109
01:19:48,350 --> 01:19:50,750
to play a historical figure.
1110
01:19:51,887 --> 01:19:56,449
This is a serious challenge
in making period dramas today.
1111
01:19:56,858 --> 01:20:00,191
At one point you made
a lot of period films,
1112
01:20:00,395 --> 01:20:04,092
such as Throne of Blood
and Seven Samurai.
1113
01:20:04,299 --> 01:20:08,429
Had you seen many Japanese
period films in the past?
1114
01:20:08,637 --> 01:20:10,126
Yes.
1115
01:20:10,338 --> 01:20:12,932
But you aspired to make
a different kind of period film.
1116
01:20:14,743 --> 01:20:16,938
One of my first assignments
as an AD
1117
01:20:17,145 --> 01:20:19,841
was on Takizawa's film,
Saga of the Vagabonds.
1118
01:20:20,048 --> 01:20:22,414
I was 26 at the time.
1119
01:20:23,552 --> 01:20:29,013
Takizawa was directing -
1120
01:20:29,224 --> 01:20:34,491
Back then, there were lots of horses
in Gotenba, in peasants' stables.
1121
01:20:34,696 --> 01:20:37,425
We had armor
and other equipment for the film
1122
01:20:37,632 --> 01:20:40,657
stored in the homes
of peasants working as extras.
1123
01:20:40,869 --> 01:20:45,806
In the morning, as the film crew
drove up Mount Fuji,
1124
01:20:46,007 --> 01:20:52,378
the doors of the peasants'
stables would open,
1125
01:20:52,581 --> 01:20:55,709
and out would come the armor-clad
peasants, leading their horses.
1126
01:20:55,917 --> 01:20:57,885
It was very picturesque.
1127
01:20:58,086 --> 01:21:02,750
As our cars advanced,
they'd follow us at a trot.
1128
01:21:03,124 --> 01:21:05,456
When we'd arrive on the set,
1129
01:21:05,660 --> 01:21:08,720
they'd have bonfires going, just like
bandits might, among the cedars.
1130
01:21:08,930 --> 01:21:12,957
But Takizawa didn't shoot
any of those images.
1131
01:21:13,168 --> 01:21:17,628
He'd just stick to the status quo.
- In the conventional style of the time.
1132
01:21:17,839 --> 01:21:20,273
When a northerly wind blew,
1133
01:21:20,475 --> 01:21:24,206
these peasant-bandits would turn
the horses' rumps toward the wind,
1134
01:21:24,412 --> 01:21:26,607
and the horses would
hang their heads down
1135
01:21:26,815 --> 01:21:28,839
as the clouds swept by
above them.
1136
01:21:29,050 --> 01:21:33,282
It was all so beautiful...
1137
01:21:34,823 --> 01:21:36,814
and evocative of a song lyric
from the film:
1138
01:21:37,025 --> 01:21:39,652
"Far away is the homeland,
and one's heart yearns for it."
1139
01:21:39,861 --> 01:21:43,297
But Takizawa didn't bother
to capture those images.
1140
01:21:43,498 --> 01:21:47,958
So I hoped one day to make
a film capturing those things.
1141
01:21:48,870 --> 01:21:51,737
They were making stock
period films back in those days,
1142
01:21:51,940 --> 01:21:57,206
and I wondered why they didn't make
good use of those beautiful images.
1143
01:21:58,980 --> 01:22:03,178
Period dramas were made
in a certain established mode back then.
1144
01:22:03,385 --> 01:22:07,253
Yes, but it wasn't
a realistic rendering.
1145
01:22:07,455 --> 01:22:10,891
If that were the case,
those films would've looked different.
1146
01:22:11,092 --> 01:22:15,722
Period dramas were stuck in a mold
invented by the film industry.
1147
01:22:15,931 --> 01:22:18,900
That's why
they weren't inspiring.
1148
01:22:19,100 --> 01:22:22,934
If you try to recreate how things
really were in a certain era,
1149
01:22:23,138 --> 01:22:26,005
it's a very challenging task.
1150
01:22:26,207 --> 01:22:32,771
In the case of Seven Samurai,
even the peasants' wigs were different.
1151
01:22:32,981 --> 01:22:36,075
Usually, the top hairline comes up
to here, but ours came much lower,
1152
01:22:36,284 --> 01:22:39,184
so a special lining was used
for the top part of the wigs.
1153
01:22:39,387 --> 01:22:43,346
- So you prepared all new wigs?
- Yes, we did.
1154
01:22:43,558 --> 01:22:45,549
Someone drew sketches of them?
1155
01:22:45,760 --> 01:22:49,696
No, the hair stylist, Yamada,
who has since passed away,
1156
01:22:49,898 --> 01:22:53,891
was passionate about his work
and wanted to do them that way.
1157
01:22:54,102 --> 01:22:57,833
But it was Seison Maeda
who first said -
1158
01:22:58,940 --> 01:23:00,804
The painter?
1159
01:23:01,009 --> 01:23:03,671
He said the topknot hairstyle
seen in films looked odd,
1160
01:23:03,878 --> 01:23:06,642
because the top of the head
is shaved only down to here,
1161
01:23:06,848 --> 01:23:10,443
while where the hair ends is set
like a bar of solid seaweed jelly.
1162
01:23:11,219 --> 01:23:14,154
He drew a sketch
to show how it should look,
1163
01:23:14,356 --> 01:23:17,848
explaining how far the top is shaved
and the position of the topknot.
1164
01:23:18,059 --> 01:23:23,497
Yamada listened intently and worked
hard to recreate what he'd heard.
1165
01:23:25,567 --> 01:23:28,593
Unless you put in
that kind of effort,
1166
01:23:28,803 --> 01:23:31,738
you can't break away
from convention
1167
01:23:31,940 --> 01:23:33,999
and create something new.
1168
01:23:34,209 --> 01:23:39,579
On that film, Maeda advised us
on kimonos and everything else,
1169
01:23:39,781 --> 01:23:42,045
and his apprentice
provided us with sketches.
1170
01:23:44,419 --> 01:23:50,289
And you've been constantly trying
new things like that in your films.
1171
01:23:50,492 --> 01:23:56,658
A helmet worn by one of the bandits
was actually a national treasure,
1172
01:23:56,865 --> 01:23:58,833
and Maeda chided me for it.
1173
01:23:59,034 --> 01:24:02,128
"Don't you know
that's a national treasure?"
1174
01:24:03,438 --> 01:24:06,032
I think what you did was okay.
1175
01:24:08,043 --> 01:24:10,034
Moving on to a different subject,
1176
01:24:10,245 --> 01:24:13,476
I've heard you're very picky
about your film music,
1177
01:24:13,681 --> 01:24:16,616
that you have a very clear idea
of what you want,
1178
01:24:16,818 --> 01:24:19,013
and that you ask the composer
for scores conveying that.
1179
01:24:19,220 --> 01:24:21,450
Was that the case
from the beginning?
1180
01:24:22,457 --> 01:24:24,391
I don't think
I'm especially picky.
1181
01:24:24,592 --> 01:24:26,559
But Fumio Hayasaka understood
1182
01:24:26,761 --> 01:24:30,219
that film music is different
from regular music.
1183
01:24:30,432 --> 01:24:34,869
He firmly believed that film music
is in a special category by itself.
1184
01:24:35,070 --> 01:24:37,367
That's why our collaboration
was so successful.
1185
01:24:37,572 --> 01:24:41,474
But his life was cut short
prematurely.
1186
01:24:41,676 --> 01:24:43,837
It was a great loss.
1187
01:24:44,045 --> 01:24:46,343
We would've collaborated
on many more projects.
1188
01:24:46,681 --> 01:24:53,348
Musicians demand that a piece
of music be able to stand on its own.
1189
01:24:53,555 --> 01:24:57,218
But it's different with film music.
Even if something is lacking,
1190
01:24:57,425 --> 01:25:02,863
it works together with images
on the screen to form an expression.
1191
01:25:03,064 --> 01:25:05,157
But musicians have difficulty
grasping that.
1192
01:25:05,366 --> 01:25:11,396
They insist that a piece of music -
- Stand in its own right.
1193
01:25:11,606 --> 01:25:13,904
I understand where
they're coming from as musicians,
1194
01:25:14,109 --> 01:25:16,134
but Hayasaka was different.
1195
01:25:17,178 --> 01:25:20,943
When music accompanies
an image on the screen,
1196
01:25:21,149 --> 01:25:24,414
it may work better
if it's lacking a certain something.
1197
01:25:24,619 --> 01:25:26,587
It may be more effective that way.
1198
01:25:26,788 --> 01:25:29,154
But it's hard for musicians
to get that.
1199
01:25:29,357 --> 01:25:32,349
- Yet Hayasaka did from the beginning?
- Yes.
1200
01:25:32,560 --> 01:25:35,393
How did you first meet him?
1201
01:25:35,597 --> 01:25:40,967
He was at Toho from the beginning,
but he was stubborn, and so was I,
1202
01:25:41,169 --> 01:25:45,572
so the studio didn't pair us at first,
fearing there'd be trouble.
1203
01:25:45,773 --> 01:25:48,173
But when they did,
we worked great together.
1204
01:25:48,376 --> 01:25:52,210
- What project was that on?
- We first collaborated on...
1205
01:25:55,683 --> 01:25:59,244
Drunken Angel, I think it was.
1206
01:25:59,454 --> 01:26:03,184
The music for that film
was very memorable.
1207
01:26:05,026 --> 01:26:08,791
Your collaboration continued
up through I Live in Fear.
1208
01:26:08,997 --> 01:26:12,865
So you didn't work together
for very long, actually,
1209
01:26:13,067 --> 01:26:15,627
but he contributed
greatly to your films.
1210
01:26:15,837 --> 01:26:18,897
You wrote a piece on the film
for a laserdisc edition.
1211
01:26:19,107 --> 01:26:23,271
I was moved
by what you wrote.
1212
01:26:23,478 --> 01:26:27,414
He was really
a very close friend. Irreplaceable.
1213
01:26:27,615 --> 01:26:29,776
We were in a crazed state
as we shot the film,
1214
01:26:29,984 --> 01:26:31,815
especially the fire scene.
1215
01:26:32,120 --> 01:26:37,956
We shot it after Hayasaka's funeral,
and my crew was very shaken,
1216
01:26:38,159 --> 01:26:40,525
because they all loved him too.
1217
01:26:40,728 --> 01:26:44,721
I guess our state of mind infused
that scene with a sort of eerie energy.
1218
01:26:44,933 --> 01:26:50,394
The theme of the film
was actually inspired by Hayasaka.
1219
01:26:50,605 --> 01:26:53,540
He visited me one day
and said he couldn't work.
1220
01:26:54,175 --> 01:26:56,575
I asked him why,
1221
01:26:56,778 --> 01:27:01,511
and he said he couldn't work
when he thought
1222
01:27:01,716 --> 01:27:04,879
about hydrogen bombs
and where the world was headed.
1223
01:27:05,086 --> 01:27:10,524
"Let's make a film about that," I said,
and I began writing the script.
1224
01:27:11,492 --> 01:27:14,825
But Hayasaka died
during production...
1225
01:27:16,798 --> 01:27:21,063
and I think as a result the film
is charged with a particular energy.
1226
01:27:24,072 --> 01:27:27,337
We were in a strange state
when we shot.
1227
01:27:29,911 --> 01:27:36,043
When asked to write about it,
I found myself in a very difficult spot,
1228
01:27:36,251 --> 01:27:41,587
but somehow I came up
with some insights for the piece.
1229
01:27:41,789 --> 01:27:45,724
The film really shows,
probably more than any other,
1230
01:27:45,927 --> 01:27:52,126
that cinema stands on images
above all, not on story alone.
1231
01:27:52,333 --> 01:27:55,563
And I couldn't help feeling
that your recent films
1232
01:27:55,770 --> 01:27:58,739
show some similarities
with I Live in Fear.
1233
01:27:58,940 --> 01:28:02,773
Well, Kashiko Kawakita said
1234
01:28:02,977 --> 01:28:08,472
she wanted to reintroduce that film
to the whole world.
1235
01:28:08,683 --> 01:28:14,417
She said that my films
were ahead of their time.
1236
01:28:15,823 --> 01:28:20,283
When the film was released -
1237
01:28:22,697 --> 01:28:25,723
It's the only film of mine
that lost money.
1238
01:28:26,801 --> 01:28:31,829
The Japanese audience didn't care for it.
They didn't want to look at reality.
1239
01:28:33,775 --> 01:28:35,742
At the premiere...
1240
01:28:37,378 --> 01:28:41,313
Umekichi Nakamura, who later
became education minister, said,
1241
01:28:41,516 --> 01:28:47,385
"It's stupid to make a big fuss
over atomic bombs."
1242
01:28:47,588 --> 01:28:50,614
I wanted Toho to get his comment
printed in the papers,
1243
01:28:51,826 --> 01:28:54,386
but they didn't.
1244
01:28:54,595 --> 01:28:58,793
This is a studio that wouldn't even sue
the guy who slashed its movie screen.
1245
01:28:59,000 --> 01:29:03,164
I guess Toho is suing after all, though.
- Yes, it seems so.
1246
01:29:03,371 --> 01:29:06,363
It's really embarrassing
how Toho handled that.
1247
01:29:08,376 --> 01:29:12,369
I wanted to experiment more
with Hayasaka.
1248
01:29:13,247 --> 01:29:16,375
He really understood film music.
1249
01:29:18,019 --> 01:29:22,854
He'd turn other jobs down
when he was working on a film.
1250
01:29:23,057 --> 01:29:25,548
He'd devote himself
to a project.
1251
01:29:29,163 --> 01:29:34,999
When you worked with him,
did you tell him what you wanted,
1252
01:29:35,203 --> 01:29:37,194
and did he bring
his own input to it?
1253
01:29:37,405 --> 01:29:40,806
Most of the time
he'd score a film at the piano.
1254
01:29:41,008 --> 01:29:43,374
For Seven Samurai,
1255
01:29:43,578 --> 01:29:46,240
there were musical themes
for the samurai, the bandits,
1256
01:29:46,447 --> 01:29:50,440
Kikuchiyo and Shino,
to name the main ones.
1257
01:29:52,754 --> 01:29:57,191
When he told me he'd written some
possible themes for the samurai,
1258
01:29:57,392 --> 01:30:00,759
it was a stack this high.
- He prepared a lot.
1259
01:30:00,962 --> 01:30:03,795
He played them one by one,
1260
01:30:03,998 --> 01:30:06,489
and I said no
to every one of them.
1261
01:30:08,069 --> 01:30:13,336
He hung his head like this.
Then he said he had one more.
1262
01:30:14,742 --> 01:30:16,767
It was in a wastebasket.
1263
01:30:16,978 --> 01:30:22,678
It had been torn up,
so he taped it together and played it.
1264
01:30:28,222 --> 01:30:30,281
"That's it!" I said.
1265
01:30:30,491 --> 01:30:32,857
The scrapped piece
was the good one.
1266
01:30:33,761 --> 01:30:38,960
So that's how we'd start
working on a project.
1267
01:30:39,167 --> 01:30:45,436
He'd compose diligently
as filming progressed.
1268
01:30:47,542 --> 01:30:49,840
That way...
1269
01:30:50,478 --> 01:30:53,140
You'd have music more or less
to your satisfaction.
1270
01:30:53,347 --> 01:30:55,974
Yes, by the time the music
was ready to lay down.
1271
01:30:56,851 --> 01:31:03,380
Lately you've used existing music
for some scenes in your films,
1272
01:31:04,392 --> 01:31:06,621
such as "Heidenroslein"
in Rhapsody in August.
1273
01:31:06,828 --> 01:31:12,095
Yes, a member of my crew
actually suggested that.
1274
01:31:12,967 --> 01:31:15,799
There's all kinds of music
in the world.
1275
01:31:16,003 --> 01:31:22,202
I'd pick what went with certain scenes
and have it recorded on CD.
1276
01:31:22,410 --> 01:31:27,347
Then I'd play it in synch to the scenes
as I showed my crew the rushes,
1277
01:31:27,548 --> 01:31:29,675
and I'd get a great response.
1278
01:31:29,884 --> 01:31:33,217
If I were to have original scores made -
This may make musicians angry.
1279
01:31:33,421 --> 01:31:35,787
You wouldn't get as good a score
by trying to emulate the original.
1280
01:31:35,990 --> 01:31:37,480
No, you wouldn't.
1281
01:31:37,692 --> 01:31:43,153
My crew tells me original scores
aren't as moving, and it's true.
1282
01:31:43,364 --> 01:31:47,094
But it's also true that new scores
work beautifully for some scenes.
1283
01:31:47,301 --> 01:31:49,496
A director like Tarkovsky
1284
01:31:49,704 --> 01:31:55,165
shows the name of the composer
whose music he's using.
1285
01:31:55,376 --> 01:31:58,971
If it was Bach, he'd indicate
which Bach piece he was using.
1286
01:31:59,180 --> 01:32:02,911
That's one way of doing it.
1287
01:32:05,086 --> 01:32:09,250
I once asked John Gillett,
the well-known British film critic,
1288
01:32:09,457 --> 01:32:15,157
about using famous music for
a sound track the way Tarkovsky does.
1289
01:32:16,163 --> 01:32:22,227
He said there's a certain problem
that goes along with that.
1290
01:32:22,436 --> 01:32:24,165
John Gillett said that?
1291
01:32:24,372 --> 01:32:27,136
For example, if you hear Mahler
in a certain scene,
1292
01:32:27,341 --> 01:32:30,105
you're very aware
that it's Mahler,
1293
01:32:30,311 --> 01:32:33,303
and that works
against the scene.
1294
01:32:33,514 --> 01:32:35,880
He does have a point.
1295
01:32:39,186 --> 01:32:44,021
I used a piece by Vivaldi in Madadayo,
but Vivaldi wrote so many pieces
1296
01:32:44,225 --> 01:32:46,819
that most people
wouldn't notice it.
1297
01:32:47,028 --> 01:32:51,328
With that kind of piece,
you wouldn't be distracted
1298
01:32:51,532 --> 01:32:53,932
by noticing that it was
a Vivaldi piece.
1299
01:32:54,969 --> 01:32:59,372
Another way of using famous music
is to do what Tarkovsky does,
1300
01:32:59,574 --> 01:33:03,031
to indicate it clearly
at the beginning.
1301
01:33:05,613 --> 01:33:08,047
To plainly show that you're using
certain music
1302
01:33:08,249 --> 01:33:10,809
is one way of dealing with it.
1303
01:33:12,887 --> 01:33:14,946
I have reservations
1304
01:33:15,156 --> 01:33:20,150
about having the entire sound track
newly scored by a musician,
1305
01:33:20,361 --> 01:33:24,023
though you do need new music
for some scenes, of course.
1306
01:33:28,035 --> 01:33:32,768
I think there are different approaches
you can take for film music.
1307
01:33:33,674 --> 01:33:36,905
Whether it's selecting music
for your films,
1308
01:33:38,045 --> 01:33:42,414
or selecting a literary work
such as Shakespeare to adapt,
1309
01:33:42,617 --> 01:33:46,519
you always seem to be aiming
1310
01:33:46,721 --> 01:33:50,316
to take on
1311
01:33:50,524 --> 01:33:56,793
the top of the lot,
the very best.
1312
01:33:57,064 --> 01:34:03,094
I don't do it intentionally.
I don't consciously set out to do that.
1313
01:34:03,304 --> 01:34:05,272
But you gravitate toward the best.
1314
01:34:05,473 --> 01:34:09,239
It's puzzling to me too.
Hayasaka was often befuddled.
1315
01:34:10,478 --> 01:34:15,211
You hear the "Cuckoo Waltz" in the scene
where Mifune is walking dejectedly.
1316
01:34:15,416 --> 01:34:17,441
I said that the "Cuckoo Waltz"
would work for the scene.
1317
01:34:21,856 --> 01:34:25,485
So we recorded the piece
1318
01:34:26,527 --> 01:34:30,896
and paired it with the edited footage,
and they matched perfectly in length.
1319
01:34:31,098 --> 01:34:36,195
I somehow knew
they'd be the same length.
1320
01:34:36,404 --> 01:34:42,036
I have an uncanny ability to do that,
which amazed even Hattori.
1321
01:34:43,377 --> 01:34:50,215
Both cinema and music
are art forms involving time,
1322
01:34:50,418 --> 01:34:54,980
so they could be perfectly
matched in length.
1323
01:34:56,190 --> 01:35:02,719
The "Stabat Mater" in
Rhapsody in August, for instance,
1324
01:35:04,732 --> 01:35:06,996
was a piece I heard somewhere,
1325
01:35:07,201 --> 01:35:11,604
and I felt it was absolutely
necessary for the film.
1326
01:35:11,806 --> 01:35:15,799
And when I actually used it,
it was a perfect match.
1327
01:35:17,445 --> 01:35:20,174
And that piece...
1328
01:35:24,251 --> 01:35:27,049
as well as the Vivaldi piece,
1329
01:35:27,254 --> 01:35:30,348
were played by the uncle
of an Italian AD named Vittorio
1330
01:35:30,558 --> 01:35:34,858
who was working
as part of my crew.
1331
01:35:35,062 --> 01:35:39,465
His uncle had been saying
that he wanted to work on my film,
1332
01:35:39,667 --> 01:35:43,467
so when I contacted him,
he was happy to oblige.
1333
01:35:46,907 --> 01:35:50,968
You seem to connect
with people worldwide
1334
01:35:51,178 --> 01:35:54,079
because you're on
the same wavelength with them.
1335
01:35:54,281 --> 01:35:58,376
I don't know about that.
I'm just being myself.
1336
01:35:58,586 --> 01:36:03,683
It's puzzling, though,
that I have this instinct for music.
1337
01:36:03,891 --> 01:36:08,123
A piece I choose fits perfectly
in length with a given piece of footage.
1338
01:36:08,329 --> 01:36:11,764
I must be measuring it
on some unconscious level.
1339
01:36:13,134 --> 01:36:19,073
Moving on to the next subject,
you've been working as director
1340
01:36:19,273 --> 01:36:24,142
as well as screenwriter
and producer of your films.
1341
01:36:24,345 --> 01:36:28,782
You must've had difficulties
in dealing with producers or studios.
1342
01:36:28,983 --> 01:36:31,884
Could you share
your experience in that regard?
1343
01:36:32,086 --> 01:36:34,384
Well, let's see.
1344
01:36:34,588 --> 01:36:39,218
I formed my own production
company as a result
1345
01:36:39,426 --> 01:36:43,055
of unexpectedly going over schedule
on The Hidden Fortress.
1346
01:36:44,632 --> 01:36:49,092
The shooting went well
until close to the end.
1347
01:36:49,303 --> 01:36:53,364
We only had a location shoot
on Mount Fuji left to do.
1348
01:36:54,341 --> 01:36:58,539
It was to take a week or ten days,
but it took 100 days instead.
1349
01:36:58,746 --> 01:37:04,082
Three typhoon attacks plagued us,
and even if it was sunny in Gotenba,
1350
01:37:04,285 --> 01:37:08,187
it would be raining
where we set up our location set.
1351
01:37:08,389 --> 01:37:11,017
We were just stuck there.
1352
01:37:11,225 --> 01:37:15,252
The studio was angry,
because it was sunny in Tokyo,
1353
01:37:15,462 --> 01:37:18,727
and when Fujimoto the producer came
to Gotenba, the sun was out there too.
1354
01:37:18,933 --> 01:37:20,992
He said, "What's going on?"
1355
01:37:21,202 --> 01:37:24,831
So I drove him up to the set,
where the weather was just awful.
1356
01:37:27,842 --> 01:37:32,175
But even after that,
the studio remained unconvinced
1357
01:37:32,379 --> 01:37:36,179
and was sure the delay
was due to my ego.
1358
01:37:36,383 --> 01:37:41,844
Naruse often used to say,
"The studio thinks delays are our fault,
1359
01:37:42,056 --> 01:37:47,392
but it's the director who'd most wish
to wrap up the shooting quickly."
1360
01:37:47,595 --> 01:37:51,326
He was right. When shooting
doesn't progress as it should,
1361
01:37:51,532 --> 01:37:53,727
there's a reason for it.
1362
01:37:53,934 --> 01:37:56,459
But the studio
doesn't understand that.
1363
01:37:56,670 --> 01:38:01,801
So after that incident, Toho told me
to start my own production company.
1364
01:38:02,009 --> 01:38:07,606
They thought when I had to deal
with getting money to produce films,
1365
01:38:07,815 --> 01:38:12,183
I would compromise
and stop pushing so hard.
1366
01:38:12,386 --> 01:38:15,651
My production company's first film
was The Bad Sleep Well.
1367
01:38:15,856 --> 01:38:19,087
- Did it cost a lot?
- It did.
1368
01:38:20,594 --> 01:38:23,358
But I didn't want to disgrace myself
by turning stingy
1369
01:38:23,564 --> 01:38:26,590
just because I'd set up
my own production company.
1370
01:38:26,800 --> 01:38:31,203
Instead, I decided to make a film
that posed the greatest challenge.
1371
01:38:32,473 --> 01:38:37,968
Having your own production company
and claiming the rights to your films
1372
01:38:38,178 --> 01:38:43,912
are necessary in dealing with
Japanese as well as foreign studios.
1373
01:38:44,118 --> 01:38:48,248
It's important
to do those things.
1374
01:38:48,455 --> 01:38:52,619
The Japanese film industry's
worst custom has been
1375
01:38:52,826 --> 01:38:55,226
that directors worked
for the studios
1376
01:38:55,429 --> 01:38:58,091
and therefore had this feeling
1377
01:38:58,299 --> 01:39:01,564
of being at the mercy
of the studios to make films.
1378
01:39:02,503 --> 01:39:05,802
That belief is wrong, since studios
made money off their films.
1379
01:39:06,006 --> 01:39:08,668
But directors felt indebted
to the studios
1380
01:39:08,876 --> 01:39:14,610
and didn't even bother drawing up
contracts for their services.
1381
01:39:14,815 --> 01:39:17,306
The problem...
1382
01:39:18,485 --> 01:39:23,013
is that they've been working
with this studio-employee mentality.
1383
01:39:23,223 --> 01:39:25,623
And that has continued until today.
1384
01:39:25,826 --> 01:39:28,693
The studios still don't
understand the problem,
1385
01:39:28,896 --> 01:39:31,193
so their employees don't either.
1386
01:39:31,398 --> 01:39:34,526
When David Putnam
set up a new movie studio,
1387
01:39:34,735 --> 01:39:37,169
the first thing that Japanese
filmmakers needed to learn
1388
01:39:37,371 --> 01:39:39,566
was the meaning
of the word "contract."
1389
01:39:40,441 --> 01:39:45,970
Japanese filmmakers
had to learn such a basic thing.
1390
01:39:48,048 --> 01:39:52,746
For Japanese cinema
to really grow from now on,
1391
01:39:53,320 --> 01:40:00,249
it's important to establish clearly
the rights and claims of directors.
1392
01:40:00,995 --> 01:40:04,362
In that regard, I've been asking
Jun Norisugi, the lawyer,
1393
01:40:04,565 --> 01:40:07,089
to focus his practice
on copyright law,
1394
01:40:07,301 --> 01:40:10,134
because there are
no copyright lawyers in Japan.
1395
01:40:10,337 --> 01:40:13,363
In America
there are all kinds of lawyers.
1396
01:40:13,574 --> 01:40:16,065
Norisugi helped me with my film
Merry Christmas, Mr. Lawrence,
1397
01:40:16,276 --> 01:40:18,767
but his services
didn't come cheap.
1398
01:40:18,979 --> 01:40:24,007
No, lawyers' fees are high,
especially with American lawyers.
1399
01:40:24,218 --> 01:40:27,654
Thirty minutes of time can cost -
- An arm and a leg,
1400
01:40:27,855 --> 01:40:30,379
because they charge by the hour
- That's right.
1401
01:40:30,591 --> 01:40:32,855
They're worth it, though.
1402
01:40:35,229 --> 01:40:37,720
They do a thorough job.
1403
01:40:38,732 --> 01:40:42,725
Besides, they make their money
by earning profit for their client.
1404
01:40:42,936 --> 01:40:45,460
So with Seven Samurai,
for instance,
1405
01:40:45,672 --> 01:40:49,072
you secured the copyright for yourself
as well as the other screenwriters?
1406
01:40:49,276 --> 01:40:51,335
- Of course.
- You represented the others?
1407
01:40:51,545 --> 01:40:54,139
Yes, and I pass on to each one
his share.
1408
01:40:54,348 --> 01:40:56,612
Oguni is living off royalties
from one such instance.
1409
01:40:57,751 --> 01:41:00,379
So when I get an offer
to remake my films,
1410
01:41:00,587 --> 01:41:03,317
I try to be
as accommodating as possible
1411
01:41:03,524 --> 01:41:08,723
to help those among us
who aren't doing so well these days.
1412
01:41:08,929 --> 01:41:15,300
If a remake is made, I can pass on
their share of the royalties.
1413
01:41:17,271 --> 01:41:21,434
Your recent film, for example,
Madadayo,
1414
01:41:21,642 --> 01:41:26,170
was a coproduction between Daiei
and your production company,
1415
01:41:26,380 --> 01:41:28,473
and when the film
is distributed overseas,
1416
01:41:28,682 --> 01:41:30,741
your company makes money
from that, of course?
1417
01:41:30,951 --> 01:41:33,511
My son Hisao
oversees that closely.
1418
01:41:33,720 --> 01:41:37,178
He works hard to raise money
from various sources.
1419
01:41:37,391 --> 01:41:40,188
He has a difficult job
as president of the company.
1420
01:41:40,394 --> 01:41:43,921
- That's for sure.
- He's told me about his worries.
1421
01:41:44,131 --> 01:41:48,431
He says it'd be best
if I stopped working,
1422
01:41:48,635 --> 01:41:52,366
because it's hell when I work.
1423
01:41:54,041 --> 01:41:59,638
I say this all the time,
but cinema is like a public square.
1424
01:41:59,847 --> 01:42:02,509
Up on the screen,
1425
01:42:02,716 --> 01:42:06,743
you see lives of people
living in different countries.
1426
01:42:06,954 --> 01:42:09,218
As you watch,
1427
01:42:09,423 --> 01:42:12,915
you cry, you laugh, you get angry,
becoming one with those people,
1428
01:42:13,127 --> 01:42:16,324
and you come to understand them.
1429
01:42:16,530 --> 01:42:23,264
It's a truly valuable means
of connecting people,
1430
01:42:23,470 --> 01:42:26,633
including in a political sense.
1431
01:42:26,907 --> 01:42:30,308
In order for Japanese cinema
1432
01:42:30,511 --> 01:42:36,541
to genuinely rebuild itself
to what it was at its height,
1433
01:42:36,750 --> 01:42:38,945
the government needs
to support it more.
1434
01:42:39,153 --> 01:42:42,987
The French government does that,
though French cinema is still struggling.
1435
01:42:43,190 --> 01:42:45,282
That government
is relatively supportive.
1436
01:42:45,492 --> 01:42:49,986
In foreign countries, politicians
take a great interest in cinema,
1437
01:42:50,197 --> 01:42:52,461
and they see
quite a lot of movies.
1438
01:42:53,033 --> 01:42:58,665
What needs to be done
about Japanese cinema?
1439
01:42:58,872 --> 01:43:01,136
If you have any advice
for Japanese filmmakers,
1440
01:43:01,341 --> 01:43:03,571
I'd be very interested
in hearing it.
1441
01:43:11,218 --> 01:43:17,885
First of all, Japanese filmmakers
need to have confidence in their work.
1442
01:43:18,792 --> 01:43:22,785
And they need to stand up
for their rights.
1443
01:43:22,996 --> 01:43:26,363
These missing elements aren't helping
gain support for Japanese cinema.
1444
01:43:28,101 --> 01:43:33,164
They should make films
they really care about.
1445
01:43:33,373 --> 01:43:40,608
John Gillett said this to me,
and I may have related it before,
1446
01:43:40,814 --> 01:43:43,977
but at one point in time,
1447
01:43:44,184 --> 01:43:48,917
Japan produced a continuous stream
of superb directors and brilliant films.
1448
01:43:49,122 --> 01:43:52,558
This phenomenon has never
been seen anywhere else.
1449
01:43:52,759 --> 01:43:58,925
He wanted to know how that occurred,
or what made it possible.
1450
01:43:59,132 --> 01:44:05,230
He said he wanted
to interview me on that subject
1451
01:44:05,439 --> 01:44:09,000
before an audience
at the Royal National Theatre.
1452
01:44:09,209 --> 01:44:12,940
I agreed to do it,
and so he asked the question.
1453
01:44:13,146 --> 01:44:15,614
My answer to him was this:
1454
01:44:15,816 --> 01:44:17,875
"It occurred simply
1455
01:44:18,085 --> 01:44:23,990
because studios gave free rein
to directors back in those days.
1456
01:44:24,558 --> 01:44:27,425
There was no such thing
as a producer then,
1457
01:44:27,628 --> 01:44:31,860
and studios let directors make
the films they wanted to make
1458
01:44:32,065 --> 01:44:34,589
without interfering.
1459
01:44:34,801 --> 01:44:37,565
That's all there was to it."
1460
01:44:37,771 --> 01:44:40,398
Everyone in the theater
was shocked.
1461
01:44:40,607 --> 01:44:43,804
This period you speak of -
when does it start and end?
1462
01:44:44,011 --> 01:44:48,345
The years that Naruse
was at his peak
1463
01:44:48,548 --> 01:44:50,846
and Mizoguchi and Ozu
were working.
1464
01:44:51,051 --> 01:44:54,452
They only made films
they cared about.
1465
01:44:55,522 --> 01:44:59,822
Naruse made quite a few films
requested by the studios,
1466
01:45:00,027 --> 01:45:03,554
so they made those kinds of films too,
but only a few.
1467
01:45:03,764 --> 01:45:06,130
Generally, they chose
their own projects.
1468
01:45:06,333 --> 01:45:09,165
But it's different today.
1469
01:45:09,369 --> 01:45:12,098
So it's the period -
excluding the war years -
1470
01:45:12,306 --> 01:45:15,798
from 1937 or 1938
1471
01:45:16,009 --> 01:45:20,469
through the last half
of the 1950s?
1472
01:45:20,681 --> 01:45:23,513
That sounds about right.
1473
01:45:28,855 --> 01:45:32,415
When the producer system
was introduced -
1474
01:45:32,959 --> 01:45:36,759
Japanese producers
are not the real thing, though.
1475
01:45:36,963 --> 01:45:41,195
They don't raise money
for the film.
1476
01:45:41,401 --> 01:45:44,165
American producers work hard
1477
01:45:44,371 --> 01:45:46,771
because they're putting
their money into a film.
1478
01:45:46,973 --> 01:45:50,841
Japanese producers
aren't like that.
1479
01:45:51,044 --> 01:45:54,844
Producers should put their money
into it but stay out of the filmmaking.
1480
01:45:55,048 --> 01:45:59,678
But Japan's producers
are just the opposite.
1481
01:45:59,886 --> 01:46:02,946
It's no wonder
Japanese cinema isn't improving.
1482
01:46:03,156 --> 01:46:07,183
Especially nowadays,
1483
01:46:07,394 --> 01:46:11,455
control in Japan's film industry
lies with the sales department.
1484
01:46:11,665 --> 01:46:16,227
You can't expect a good product when
the creative side doesn't have control.
1485
01:46:16,436 --> 01:46:20,304
These days, the so-called studios
aren't really making movies anymore.
1486
01:46:20,507 --> 01:46:22,441
Right, they're not.
1487
01:46:22,642 --> 01:46:25,110
They lack the talent for it,
1488
01:46:25,312 --> 01:46:29,442
because only those without talent
remained in the studios.
1489
01:46:31,051 --> 01:46:34,248
So to put it simply,
1490
01:46:34,454 --> 01:46:37,355
I think that period produced
so many great filmmakers
1491
01:46:37,557 --> 01:46:40,492
because the studios let them
make films they really cared about,
1492
01:46:40,694 --> 01:46:45,324
so each film was made
with attention and care.
1493
01:46:45,532 --> 01:46:49,229
That's the simplest way to make a film,
but it's rarely practiced.
1494
01:46:49,436 --> 01:46:52,871
It's important that filmmakers
make films they really care about.
1495
01:46:53,073 --> 01:46:55,041
But for example, my son said
1496
01:46:55,242 --> 01:47:00,771
that next I should make something
with a little more mass appeal,
1497
01:47:02,048 --> 01:47:05,313
a crowd-pleaser
that would be a big hit.
1498
01:47:05,519 --> 01:47:08,283
You can't do it, though,
when you're asked to like that.
1499
01:47:09,089 --> 01:47:11,922
Hisao related
that story to me too!
1500
01:47:12,259 --> 01:47:16,252
I said, "I can't make movies at all
when you say something like that."
1501
01:47:16,463 --> 01:47:19,830
To tell you the truth, I can only
make films that I care about.
1502
01:47:20,033 --> 01:47:22,695
I just can't help it.
1503
01:47:22,903 --> 01:47:25,872
But working
within those parameters,
1504
01:47:26,072 --> 01:47:28,768
I made films
like Seven Samurai and Yojimbo,
1505
01:47:28,975 --> 01:47:31,068
though it was by chance
that I made those crowd-pleasers.
1506
01:47:31,278 --> 01:47:33,712
It's not possible
to make films like that
1507
01:47:33,914 --> 01:47:37,441
just because you're asked to,
unfortunately.
1508
01:47:38,018 --> 01:47:42,284
I agree with you.
Films are funny that way.
1509
01:47:42,489 --> 01:47:45,686
The real problem we have -
1510
01:47:48,094 --> 01:47:50,062
I wish the Japanese audience today
would turn out more
1511
01:47:50,263 --> 01:47:53,027
for the kind of films
I've been making recently.
1512
01:47:53,700 --> 01:47:57,693
More people would've seen them
in the old days.
1513
01:48:00,674 --> 01:48:05,737
My most recent film
is currently doing well overseas.
1514
01:48:07,047 --> 01:48:10,174
The most difficult thing
1515
01:48:10,383 --> 01:48:14,717
is to raise the level
of the audience's appreciation of film.
1516
01:48:14,921 --> 01:48:17,048
That's a tremendous thing
to pull off.
1517
01:48:17,257 --> 01:48:20,987
It's easy to lower it,
and that's what has happened.
1518
01:48:22,128 --> 01:48:24,925
Movie theaters are playing
only the awful stuff,
1519
01:48:25,131 --> 01:48:28,362
and audiences today are apt
to actually believe that that's cinema.
1520
01:48:28,568 --> 01:48:34,029
So it's necessary to raise
their awareness of what cinema really is.
1521
01:48:34,241 --> 01:48:37,699
And educating people
in that regard
1522
01:48:37,911 --> 01:48:41,972
is an enormously difficult
and challenging task.
1523
01:48:42,516 --> 01:48:45,040
I'd like you
to send out a message
1524
01:48:45,252 --> 01:48:47,618
to Japan's younger
generation of directors
1525
01:48:47,821 --> 01:48:52,622
and aspiring directors,
who are really quite numerous,
1526
01:48:52,826 --> 01:48:54,885
to wrap up this interview,
1527
01:48:55,095 --> 01:48:57,495
if there's any advice
you can give them.
1528
01:48:57,764 --> 01:49:00,130
The thing I stress most
1529
01:49:00,333 --> 01:49:05,326
to the aspiring directors who often
come knocking at my door is this:
1530
01:49:07,107 --> 01:49:12,170
"It costs a great deal of money
to make a film these days,
1531
01:49:12,379 --> 01:49:14,404
and it's hard
to become a director.
1532
01:49:14,614 --> 01:49:18,982
You must learn and experience
various things to become a director,
1533
01:49:19,185 --> 01:49:21,710
and it's not
so easily accomplished.
1534
01:49:21,922 --> 01:49:25,049
But if you genuinely want
to make films,
1535
01:49:25,258 --> 01:49:28,193
then write screenplays.
1536
01:49:28,395 --> 01:49:32,798
All you need to write a script
is paper and pencil.
1537
01:49:32,999 --> 01:49:37,264
It's only through writing scripts
1538
01:49:37,470 --> 01:49:40,837
that you learn specifics
about the structure of film
1539
01:49:41,041 --> 01:49:44,374
and what cinema is."
1540
01:49:45,645 --> 01:49:48,375
That's what I tell them,
1541
01:49:48,582 --> 01:49:50,812
but they still won't write.
1542
01:49:51,384 --> 01:49:54,376
They find writing too hard.
1543
01:49:54,588 --> 01:49:58,853
And it is.
Writing scripts is a hard job.
1544
01:49:59,059 --> 01:50:01,323
Still...
1545
01:50:01,528 --> 01:50:05,259
Balzac said that for writers,
including novelists,
1546
01:50:05,465 --> 01:50:12,337
the most essential
and necessary thing
1547
01:50:12,539 --> 01:50:14,837
is the forbearance to face
1548
01:50:15,041 --> 01:50:20,570
the dull task
of writing one word at a time.
1549
01:50:22,082 --> 01:50:24,607
That is the first requirement
for any writer.
1550
01:50:24,818 --> 01:50:28,686
When you consider Balzac's
body of work with that in mind,
1551
01:50:28,888 --> 01:50:31,356
it's just staggering,
1552
01:50:31,558 --> 01:50:34,254
because he produced
a volume of written work
1553
01:50:34,461 --> 01:50:37,487
that we couldn't finish reading
in our lifetimes.
1554
01:50:38,732 --> 01:50:40,859
Do you know how he wrote?
1555
01:50:41,067 --> 01:50:42,932
It's very interesting.
1556
01:50:43,703 --> 01:50:46,900
He'd scribble along and then send
it off to the printer right away.
1557
01:50:47,107 --> 01:50:50,907
One page would be printed
on a sheet of paper this big.
1558
01:50:51,111 --> 01:50:56,481
When he got the printed pages back,
he'd make revisions in the margin
1559
01:50:57,917 --> 01:51:00,283
until very little
of the original writing remained.
1560
01:51:00,487 --> 01:51:02,751
Then he'd send those revisions
to the printer.
1561
01:51:02,956 --> 01:51:06,448
That's a good way to work,
1562
01:51:06,660 --> 01:51:09,094
though it may be hard
on the printer.
1563
01:51:09,295 --> 01:51:11,729
He was able to produce so much
because of that method.
1564
01:51:11,931 --> 01:51:13,898
That may have been
one ingredient,
1565
01:51:14,100 --> 01:51:19,538
but the most essential thing
was to have the patience
1566
01:51:19,973 --> 01:51:25,411
to write one word at a time
1567
01:51:25,612 --> 01:51:27,580
until you reach
the required length.
1568
01:51:27,781 --> 01:51:32,878
Too many people lack
that patience.
1569
01:51:34,487 --> 01:51:39,151
Once you get used to it,
1570
01:51:40,260 --> 01:51:43,423
you'll be able to write
with no trouble.
1571
01:51:45,765 --> 01:51:51,499
You only need paper and pencil
to write a screenplay.
1572
01:51:51,705 --> 01:51:54,230
When Naruse and I
were staying in an inn to write,
1573
01:51:54,441 --> 01:51:56,909
I used to visit him in his room.
1574
01:51:57,143 --> 01:52:01,807
He'd have writing paper
and a pencil on the table.
1575
01:52:02,248 --> 01:52:07,014
As we talked, he'd write
something down now and then.
1576
01:52:07,987 --> 01:52:11,320
That writing would turn
into one of his wonderful scripts.
1577
01:52:11,925 --> 01:52:14,917
This is a funny story,
1578
01:52:15,128 --> 01:52:18,393
but I asked to see what he was writing,
and he just chuckled.
1579
01:52:18,598 --> 01:52:23,035
He'd written
that such and such characters
1580
01:52:23,236 --> 01:52:25,568
were in a room doing something.
1581
01:52:25,772 --> 01:52:28,001
Just "something"!
Nothing specific?
1582
01:52:28,208 --> 01:52:31,335
For Naruse, that description was enough,
because he'd be directing.
1583
01:52:31,544 --> 01:52:33,512
He didn't need to be specific.
1584
01:52:33,713 --> 01:52:36,237
But that "something" was funny.
1585
01:52:37,550 --> 01:52:42,317
But the tedious task of writing
1586
01:52:42,522 --> 01:52:47,789
has to become
second nature to you.
1587
01:52:50,163 --> 01:52:52,723
If you sit down and write quietly
the whole day,
1588
01:52:52,932 --> 01:52:56,834
you'll have written
at least two or three pages,
1589
01:52:57,137 --> 01:52:58,933
even if it's a struggle.
1590
01:52:59,139 --> 01:53:02,199
And if you keep at it, you'll eventually
have a couple hundred pages.
1591
01:53:03,576 --> 01:53:07,376
I think young people today
don't know the trick of it.
1592
01:53:07,580 --> 01:53:12,882
They start and want to get
to the end right away.
1593
01:53:13,086 --> 01:53:16,715
When you go mountain climbing,
the first thing you're told
1594
01:53:16,923 --> 01:53:18,982
is not to look at the peak
1595
01:53:19,192 --> 01:53:21,490
but to keep your eyes
on the ground as you climb.
1596
01:53:21,694 --> 01:53:27,428
You just keep climbing patiently
one step at a time.
1597
01:53:27,634 --> 01:53:31,070
If you keep looking at the top,
you'll get frustrated.
1598
01:53:32,205 --> 01:53:35,697
I think writing is similar.
1599
01:53:35,909 --> 01:53:40,039
You need to get used
to the task of writing.
1600
01:53:40,246 --> 01:53:43,613
You must make an effort
to learn to regard it
1601
01:53:43,817 --> 01:53:48,083
not as something painful
but as routine.
1602
01:53:48,288 --> 01:53:52,951
But most people
tend to give up halfway.
1603
01:53:53,159 --> 01:53:57,596
I tell my ADs that if
they give up once, then that'll be it,
1604
01:53:57,797 --> 01:54:02,530
because that becomes habit, and they'll
give up as soon as it gets hard.
1605
01:54:02,735 --> 01:54:06,830
I tell them to write all the way
to the end no matter what,
1606
01:54:07,040 --> 01:54:09,668
until they get
to some sort of end.
1607
01:54:09,876 --> 01:54:16,543
I say, "Don't ever quit,
even if it gets hard midway."
1608
01:54:16,749 --> 01:54:20,514
But when the going gets tough,
they just give up.
1609
01:54:20,720 --> 01:54:24,178
Also, young people today
don't read books.
1610
01:54:24,390 --> 01:54:29,885
I don't think any of them
are widely read in Russian literature.
1611
01:54:31,297 --> 01:54:37,826
It's important that they at least
do a certain amount of reading.
1612
01:54:39,105 --> 01:54:42,232
Unless you have a rich reserve within,
you can't create anything.
1613
01:54:42,442 --> 01:54:46,538
That's why I often say
that creating comes from memory.
1614
01:54:46,746 --> 01:54:49,476
Memory is the source
for your creation.
1615
01:54:49,682 --> 01:54:52,378
You can't create
something out of nothing.
1616
01:54:52,585 --> 01:54:55,520
Whether it's from reading
1617
01:54:55,722 --> 01:54:58,418
or from your own
real-life experience,
1618
01:54:58,625 --> 01:55:02,527
you can't create unless you have
something inside yourself.
1619
01:55:02,896 --> 01:55:08,527
In that sense, it's important
to always read a variety of things.
1620
01:55:08,735 --> 01:55:10,964
Current novels are fine,
1621
01:55:11,170 --> 01:55:15,800
but I think people should
read the classics too.
1622
01:55:17,076 --> 01:55:19,909
So if a film school was set up,
1623
01:55:20,113 --> 01:55:25,517
it would be important
to stress reading.
1624
01:55:28,021 --> 01:55:30,182
Thank you for the great stories.
1625
01:55:32,959 --> 01:55:35,826
Supervised by SHIZUO SATO
1626
01:55:36,029 --> 01:55:38,930
OF THE DIRECTORS GUILD OF JAPAN,
COMMITTEE OF CULTURAL AFFAIRS
1627
01:55:40,199 --> 01:55:46,330
Produced by
THE DIRECTORS GUILD OF JAPAN
142877
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