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My first awareness
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of phantasmagorical images
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was in 1955 on television,
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they were running
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the 1933 Schoedsack/Cooper
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production of King Kong,
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and I remember
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just being blown away
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as a five-year-old by that.
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Around that time,
LIFE magazine came out
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with a lot of Rudolph Zallinger's murals,
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in the Museum of Natural History
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in New York, of dinosaurs.
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I got amazed by the concept
that there was another world
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before our world,
where monsters,
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without men, lived.
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And then I saw
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The 7th Voyage of Sinbad.
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And then I was
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never the same afterwards.
You know, it was just like,
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"What was that?
What did I just see?
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Why was it like that?"
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It took me a number of years
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to figure out how it was done.
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I drew, tried to sculpt,
pushed clay around,
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animated stuff,
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with like terrible lighting
in my bedroom.
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Nobody was interested
in what I was interested in.
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So, as a consequence,
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through most of my formal education
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up until the college years,
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you know, I was...
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You know, I was friendly,
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and, you know, liked people
and they liked me,
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but I had very little in common,
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so I spent most of my time alone.
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I wasn't into like sports or anything.
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You know,
I was too dorky for girls,
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so I just spent more time alone,
you know...
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My parents didn't understand
what it was that I was doing.
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My mother became worried about me,
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that I seemed to be obsessed
with these weird things,
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and I think they went to talk
to some psychiatrist.
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My dad was a probation officer,
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but his avocation was,
he was an abstract painter.
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So we connected on that level.
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There was a little community college,
48
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a junior college in San Marcos,
California,
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in the San Diego area,
called Palomar,
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and they had a great art department.
51
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And I became friends with
a number of instructors there.
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A couple of them were involved
with conceptual art.
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It was like a curtain had been lifted
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and you were free,
you were free!
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Totally free!
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There were no constraints at all,
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you could do anything!
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I made a number of abstract films,
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16mm film, bleaching the film,
60
00:05:37,064 --> 00:05:39,904
and using paint
to create abstract shapes.
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The conceptual movement,
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yeah, it was like...boom.
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It was-- It's not like sculpture,
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it's not like painting,
it's like--
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It's filmmaking, it's like...
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making stuff with sticks.
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But it was ridiculed
by a lot of people too,
68
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saying it's not art,
because it's not,
69
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you know, a thing that has
a price tag on it
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and people can't understand that.
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00:06:09,544 --> 00:06:15,384
During summer of 1967
or something like that,
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I went to the beach
with some friends in San Diego
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and came home and was watching
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the science-fiction movie on TV.
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In the intermission,
the host of the program
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had a guest, and the guest
was Bill Stromberg,
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and he showed his stop-motion
movie called Time Tomorrow.
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00:06:42,743 --> 00:06:45,784
And so I was able
to get in contact with Bill,
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he was about to embark
on his next independent feature
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that was based on
a Ray Bradbury story
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called Sound of Thunder
about dinosaur hunting.
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So I just started working with Bill--
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he would drive down every weekend
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and pick me up
and take me back to Carlsbad,
85
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like a 30-minute drive,
86
00:07:04,344 --> 00:07:06,904
and we'd work in his garage studio,
87
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and slowly put together
88
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this short 16mm film,
and it was great!
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Hark! Into the earth!
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He was 15 years old at the time.
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00:07:19,304 --> 00:07:21,224
He came up
and started working with me
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on Sound of Thunder...
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00:07:25,344 --> 00:07:27,504
...my very elaborate home movie.
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00:07:28,904 --> 00:07:30,664
Bill Stromberg was my mentor.
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00:07:30,824 --> 00:07:34,424
I graduated from 8mm to 16mm,
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00:07:34,583 --> 00:07:36,503
and so it was the greatest opportunity.
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00:07:36,664 --> 00:07:38,544
And then I got to work
during my summer breaks
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00:07:38,703 --> 00:07:40,104
at Cascade Pictures.
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00:07:42,664 --> 00:07:43,984
And who are you?
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00:07:44,144 --> 00:07:45,224
I'm Poppin' Fresh,
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00:07:45,384 --> 00:07:46,824
the Pillsbury Dough Boy.
102
00:07:46,984 --> 00:07:48,744
Cascade was
a production company
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00:07:48,904 --> 00:07:51,704
that did television commercials
exclusively.
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00:07:51,863 --> 00:07:53,744
That's where I met Dennis Muren.
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00:07:53,904 --> 00:07:56,264
Tex Avery was there
once we started working,
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so that was a huge influence.
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♪ Have Campbell's Chicken Chicken! ♪
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It was like some kind
of graduate program,
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because the commercials
turned over really quick
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00:08:06,904 --> 00:08:08,384
and you were doing this here,
and you're doing that there,
111
00:08:08,544 --> 00:08:10,144
and it was like this and like that,
112
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and this, and the...
113
00:08:12,464 --> 00:08:14,864
So you learned a lot of shit
like really quick.
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The first Star Wars was really
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the first big theatrical feature film
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that a lot of us worked on.
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During the time that Star Wars
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was in postproduction
with visual effects,
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we got introduced to George Lucas
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through Dennis Muren.
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Cascade had closed up,
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there was not enough work,
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I didn't want to work
on big Hollywood movies
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where you're working at a studio
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all you could do is
just touch the camera--
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you can't touch a light...
127
00:08:48,584 --> 00:08:50,504
And I was a huge admirer
of George Lucas,
128
00:08:50,664 --> 00:08:52,704
from THX and from American Graffiti,
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00:08:52,864 --> 00:08:55,344
and eventually I got
the job on Star Wars.
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00:08:55,503 --> 00:08:58,024
They weren't making
the kinds of movies
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that we were interested in doing
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00:08:59,984 --> 00:09:01,584
in Hollywood at that
particular point in time.
133
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So working for the studios
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really wasn't that interesting.
135
00:09:05,904 --> 00:09:09,343
But if you wanted
to be a part of that system,
136
00:09:09,504 --> 00:09:10,984
you had to join a union,
137
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and there was no union
for stop-motion animation
138
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or monster making or whatever.
139
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So what George Lucas did was,
140
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he set up ILM on the outskirts
141
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of the union jurisdiction,
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which allowed us
to be able to participate.
143
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George wanted to do some insert shots
144
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for the "Cantina"--
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he didn't feel he had gotten
enough material.
146
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And simultaneously,
I was working
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with David Allen
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on a Bill Stromberg production.
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Is the creature
ready to unleash its horror
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on an unsuspecting world?
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I was juggling both jobs--
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I was working on creating
the Crater Lake puppet,
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and also working on the Cantina scene,
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under the auspice of Rick Baker,
who George hired.
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Rick got a bunch of us together,
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that he knew through Cascade Pictures,
157
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a bunch out-of-work
stop-motion animators
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to do the Cantina scene.
159
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Well, all these guys
can make small sculptures--
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they can make face masks,
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they can make full-body costumes
if they want to,
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they can draw, they can paint,
163
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and it would be perfect
for them to be able
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to switch from doing
little stop-motion and puppets
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to be able to make costumes
for the Cantina,
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it made total sense.
167
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We built a number of masks,
168
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kind of refurbished things
over existing masks
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that Rick Baker had.
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We made like 20 monsters
in like five, six weeks,
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something like that.
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And then when it came time to shoot,
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George invited us to come down
and play the monsters.
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While we were making the masks,
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George would come by once a week
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and check things out.
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At that time, he saw a puppet
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that I had brought in to the studio--
179
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a stop-motion puppet--
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which gave him the idea
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to do the chess set scene
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as a stop-motion scene.
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Previously, I think he was going
184
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to do it just with actors in masks,
185
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and I think Michael Crichton
186
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had just came out with Westworld,
187
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and I guess
there was something similar.
188
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In Futureworld,
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if you can afford to go there,
you're lucky.
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00:11:29,144 --> 00:11:31,104
When Westworld came out,
191
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there was a chess game in it
with people in big costumes
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and George was all, "Oh shit!"
193
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Anyhow, that's where the idea
194
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of doing it with stop-motion came from,
195
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he had seen little things
that Phil and I,
196
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even you do,
wave under his nose,
197
00:11:47,664 --> 00:11:49,064
and he and Gary went,
198
00:11:49,224 --> 00:11:50,384
"Why don't we do it
with stop-motion?"
199
00:11:50,544 --> 00:11:51,904
As opposed to the guys
in the costumes?
200
00:11:52,064 --> 00:11:53,304
In the costumes.
Because he was really--
201
00:11:53,464 --> 00:11:54,944
At least that's my memory of it,
202
00:11:55,104 --> 00:11:56,784
he was pretty deflated--
they had taken his idea
203
00:11:56,943 --> 00:11:58,464
and ruined it.
204
00:11:58,624 --> 00:12:00,624
So this was the original armature
205
00:12:00,783 --> 00:12:03,584
that I had inside the puppet
206
00:12:03,744 --> 00:12:05,264
that I made when I was a teenager,
207
00:12:05,424 --> 00:12:07,744
that George saw when
we were doing the Cantina scene.
208
00:12:07,903 --> 00:12:10,144
There was a scramble
to make this number of figures
209
00:12:10,304 --> 00:12:11,944
in a very short period of time.
210
00:12:12,104 --> 00:12:13,144
I can't remember what it was,
211
00:12:13,304 --> 00:12:14,424
Phil thinks it's a week,
212
00:12:14,584 --> 00:12:15,744
I think we probably had to do it
213
00:12:15,904 --> 00:12:17,224
more in like two weeks.
214
00:12:17,384 --> 00:12:18,944
But it was all a real scramble,
215
00:12:19,104 --> 00:12:20,504
and it was right
at the tail-end of the shooting,
216
00:12:20,663 --> 00:12:22,224
so we were under a lot of pressure
217
00:12:22,384 --> 00:12:24,464
to get this thing done
as fast as we could.
218
00:12:24,624 --> 00:12:26,423
I think we shot it
over about three days,
219
00:12:26,584 --> 00:12:29,064
in the evenings.
It was part of the night crew.
220
00:12:32,183 --> 00:12:35,144
I realized, when we saw
some of the footage from it,
221
00:12:35,304 --> 00:12:37,943
oh, this was the movie
I really wanted to see as a kid.
222
00:12:38,104 --> 00:12:41,984
And it was, but you never know
how many people feel that.
223
00:12:42,144 --> 00:12:43,464
None of us had any idea
when we were doing this
224
00:12:43,624 --> 00:12:45,384
in the first place what would happen
225
00:12:45,544 --> 00:12:49,144
with Star Wars and careers
and everything like that.
226
00:12:49,304 --> 00:12:50,984
It was really nice
to see something take off
227
00:12:51,144 --> 00:12:53,184
on such an extraordinary level.
228
00:12:53,344 --> 00:12:55,744
I never expected to be part
of anything like that.
229
00:12:55,903 --> 00:12:58,304
I could have sworn
it was Ray Harryhausen
230
00:12:58,464 --> 00:12:59,824
that did the chess scene
231
00:12:59,984 --> 00:13:02,744
when I first saw Star Wars--
the original--
232
00:13:02,903 --> 00:13:05,304
and I even stayed for the credits
233
00:13:05,464 --> 00:13:08,584
to see Ray Harryhausen's name,
and you know,
234
00:13:08,744 --> 00:13:09,864
it wasn't Ray Harryhausen,
235
00:13:10,024 --> 00:13:12,824
it was Jon Berg and Phil Tippett.
236
00:13:12,984 --> 00:13:14,784
New heroes, all of a sudden,
237
00:13:14,944 --> 00:13:16,784
because I had no idea who they were.
238
00:13:16,944 --> 00:13:19,104
People often time talk about Phil
239
00:13:19,264 --> 00:13:24,303
as sort of the heir to Ray Harryhausen,
240
00:13:24,464 --> 00:13:26,623
and I think that's true
in a lot of ways,
241
00:13:26,784 --> 00:13:30,664
because he definitely has
that character understanding
242
00:13:30,824 --> 00:13:32,304
that Ray had.
243
00:13:32,464 --> 00:13:35,344
To me, what makes Phil
equally as interesting
244
00:13:35,504 --> 00:13:38,344
is that he has a contemporary
aesthetic to him--
245
00:13:38,504 --> 00:13:40,144
like, each movie that he did...
246
00:13:40,304 --> 00:13:42,344
Like when you saw the chess set,
247
00:13:42,504 --> 00:13:43,944
there was something different
about that,
248
00:13:44,104 --> 00:13:46,864
even though you knew
that it was stop-motion,
249
00:13:47,024 --> 00:13:48,904
but the fact that it was presented
250
00:13:49,064 --> 00:13:51,664
in a high-tech environment
as a hologram
251
00:13:51,824 --> 00:13:53,384
was a very interesting spin on it.
252
00:13:53,544 --> 00:13:55,304
You know, maybe Phil
didn't come up with that,
253
00:13:55,464 --> 00:13:58,384
but he definitely used his techniques
254
00:13:58,544 --> 00:14:01,183
to the very best possible way
for that moment.
255
00:14:03,064 --> 00:14:04,904
The popularity of Star Wars
256
00:14:05,064 --> 00:14:08,904
drove all
of the subsequent media stuff.
257
00:14:09,064 --> 00:14:12,584
Whatever celebrity
kind of blew off of that
258
00:14:12,744 --> 00:14:14,504
was irrelevant to me.
259
00:14:14,664 --> 00:14:16,344
You know, I didn't care
about that stuff.
260
00:14:22,104 --> 00:14:23,784
I came to United States
261
00:14:23,944 --> 00:14:26,224
to go to a graduate school,
and I was studying painting,
262
00:14:26,384 --> 00:14:27,584
and after that,
263
00:14:27,744 --> 00:14:29,064
I didn't really know what to do.
264
00:14:29,224 --> 00:14:31,024
I was sort of hanging around
San Francisco,
265
00:14:31,184 --> 00:14:34,704
and doing odd jobs and generally
being kind of illegal,
266
00:14:34,864 --> 00:14:35,864
because my Visa ran out.
267
00:14:36,023 --> 00:14:38,984
So I actually met a French guy
268
00:14:39,144 --> 00:14:40,904
who had a car
269
00:14:41,064 --> 00:14:42,504
and he was just here
for a little bit of time
270
00:14:42,664 --> 00:14:43,824
and he said...
271
00:14:43,983 --> 00:14:46,224
"Come with me to L.A.
272
00:14:46,384 --> 00:14:48,744
"and if you do that you can take my car
273
00:14:48,904 --> 00:14:49,864
and I'm gonna go back to Paris."
274
00:14:50,024 --> 00:14:51,304
He was actually a cameraman.
275
00:14:54,024 --> 00:14:56,424
And the night we got to L.A.,
276
00:14:56,584 --> 00:14:57,904
we met somebody
277
00:14:58,064 --> 00:14:59,544
who I had been in college with,
278
00:14:59,704 --> 00:15:01,144
who actually knew Phil,
and said,
279
00:15:01,304 --> 00:15:02,623
"Oh, you have to come to my friend
280
00:15:02,784 --> 00:15:04,064
Phil Tippett's house."
281
00:15:04,224 --> 00:15:07,784
So we went there that night,
and I met Phil,
282
00:15:07,944 --> 00:15:12,144
and he was in a house with
his friend who is a composer,
283
00:15:12,304 --> 00:15:14,824
listening to Beethoven incredibly loudly,
284
00:15:14,984 --> 00:15:18,104
and in his house,
there were shelves
285
00:15:18,263 --> 00:15:21,544
with beautifully sculpted
clay dinosaurs.
286
00:15:21,704 --> 00:15:23,584
It was actually very,
very impressive.
287
00:15:31,983 --> 00:15:36,024
It was L.A. at sunset,
with thick smog,
288
00:15:36,184 --> 00:15:38,664
so the colors in the sky
were amazing,
289
00:15:38,824 --> 00:15:39,704
and there was just like this man
290
00:15:39,864 --> 00:15:41,344
with this red, wild hair
291
00:15:41,504 --> 00:15:43,424
and listening to wild music,
292
00:15:43,584 --> 00:15:46,184
and I pretty much fell in love like that.
293
00:15:53,744 --> 00:15:55,344
The next time I saw Phil, actually,
294
00:15:55,504 --> 00:15:59,543
was at Dennis Muren's house
in Glendale.
295
00:15:59,704 --> 00:16:01,664
And I got very drunk,
296
00:16:01,824 --> 00:16:04,304
and I asked him to marry me
297
00:16:04,464 --> 00:16:06,184
on the balcony
298
00:16:06,344 --> 00:16:08,224
of Dennis Muren's house
299
00:16:08,384 --> 00:16:09,704
and he said yes!
300
00:16:11,743 --> 00:16:13,663
Quickly after that episode,
301
00:16:13,824 --> 00:16:15,424
he was actually working,
or about to work,
302
00:16:15,583 --> 00:16:17,624
on this project, Timegate.
303
00:16:20,264 --> 00:16:22,504
So the clay dinosaurs and stuff
were actually for that.
304
00:16:22,664 --> 00:16:24,184
I was sort of game for anything,
305
00:16:24,344 --> 00:16:26,104
so I kind of signed up
as a production assistant,
306
00:16:26,264 --> 00:16:27,824
and it was actually really fun
307
00:16:27,984 --> 00:16:30,344
because we were sort of
trying to prep to do a movie.
308
00:16:30,504 --> 00:16:33,744
I do remember shooting
some tests out in the desert.
309
00:16:33,904 --> 00:16:36,344
So that was sort of interesting,
but Timegate kind of fell apart,
310
00:16:36,504 --> 00:16:38,384
basically it didn't actually
turn into a movie.
311
00:16:38,544 --> 00:16:40,984
And then came along Piranha.
312
00:16:44,304 --> 00:16:46,944
Originally, I called Rick Baker
313
00:16:47,104 --> 00:16:49,224
to see if he would do the film Piranha.
314
00:16:49,384 --> 00:16:52,544
And he said no, he would not
do the film Piranha,
315
00:16:52,704 --> 00:16:54,064
but he said,
316
00:16:54,224 --> 00:16:56,183
"You should call Phil Tippett
317
00:16:56,344 --> 00:16:57,744
and here is his phone number."
318
00:16:57,904 --> 00:17:01,624
Jules had a studio
in Los Angeles--
319
00:17:01,784 --> 00:17:05,464
a very small room,
not much bigger than this room--
320
00:17:05,624 --> 00:17:07,983
where she was doing her paintings.
321
00:17:08,144 --> 00:17:11,304
And the Piranha job came up
322
00:17:11,464 --> 00:17:13,384
and Jon Berg and I rented it.
323
00:17:13,544 --> 00:17:15,504
We called it The Fish Factory.
324
00:17:15,663 --> 00:17:19,064
This is the original clay sculpture
325
00:17:19,223 --> 00:17:21,544
that Phil made for Piranha.
326
00:17:21,704 --> 00:17:23,224
A mold was made off of this
327
00:17:23,384 --> 00:17:26,344
and all the subsequent
rubber piranhas
328
00:17:26,504 --> 00:17:28,024
came out of that mold.
329
00:17:28,184 --> 00:17:30,063
I designed
and sculpted piranha fish
330
00:17:30,224 --> 00:17:31,624
and then molds were made,
331
00:17:31,784 --> 00:17:34,624
and Jules did some designs
for coloration.
332
00:17:34,784 --> 00:17:38,264
Phil, who was with
his adorable wife Jules,
333
00:17:38,423 --> 00:17:39,824
worked on the fish, of course,
334
00:17:39,984 --> 00:17:41,303
which were very difficult
335
00:17:41,464 --> 00:17:42,784
under our circumstances,
336
00:17:42,943 --> 00:17:44,504
and also on some creatures
337
00:17:44,664 --> 00:17:45,784
that were in the laboratory.
338
00:17:45,944 --> 00:17:47,224
I just do remember making
339
00:17:47,384 --> 00:17:49,504
tons of fish and painting them,
340
00:17:49,663 --> 00:17:53,584
and my job was to actually
mix up gallons of blood
341
00:17:53,744 --> 00:17:55,344
to throw in the water
342
00:17:55,504 --> 00:17:56,984
when the fish
were thrashing around--
343
00:17:57,144 --> 00:17:59,064
the rubber fish on sticks.
344
00:17:59,224 --> 00:18:00,464
You know,
she got insurance,
345
00:18:00,624 --> 00:18:01,743
she hired a crew,
346
00:18:01,904 --> 00:18:03,704
she got all the materials,
347
00:18:03,864 --> 00:18:08,863
she produced the visual effects
for Piranha.
348
00:18:09,024 --> 00:18:12,224
This was a really cheap
movie shot in Los Angeles,
349
00:18:12,384 --> 00:18:13,424
in a swimming pool,
350
00:18:13,584 --> 00:18:14,824
for which we all had
351
00:18:14,984 --> 00:18:16,424
to learn to scuba dive.
352
00:18:16,584 --> 00:18:18,664
And in the movie,
353
00:18:18,824 --> 00:18:21,424
Phil is my scuba diving buddy.
354
00:18:21,584 --> 00:18:24,783
We have a scene together
where we play scuba divers,
355
00:18:24,944 --> 00:18:27,184
and he gets eaten by piranhas,
356
00:18:27,344 --> 00:18:29,583
and then later,
a water skier goes by him,
357
00:18:29,744 --> 00:18:32,424
and there's the body--
is underwater with bubbles
358
00:18:32,584 --> 00:18:34,344
and blood and that's all...
that's Phil!
359
00:18:38,384 --> 00:18:39,784
I was a huge stop-motion fan
360
00:18:39,944 --> 00:18:41,224
and I didn't know
how many movies I was going
361
00:18:41,384 --> 00:18:42,743
to get to be able
to make in my career
362
00:18:42,904 --> 00:18:43,824
and I really wanted to have
363
00:18:43,983 --> 00:18:45,104
stop-motion in the picture.
364
00:18:45,264 --> 00:18:46,464
And Kevin McCarthy's mad doctor
365
00:18:46,624 --> 00:18:48,304
has created a lot of weird stuff,
366
00:18:48,464 --> 00:18:52,144
so we could have
a sort of a Ymir-like creature.
367
00:18:52,304 --> 00:18:55,064
The Ymir in Ray Harryhausen's
20 Million Miles to Earth
368
00:18:55,223 --> 00:18:57,224
is one of his major achievements.
369
00:18:57,384 --> 00:19:00,424
And it's a reptilian creature
on two legs.
370
00:19:00,584 --> 00:19:01,624
And that was something that,
371
00:19:01,784 --> 00:19:04,784
I think Phil felt that he could do.
372
00:19:04,944 --> 00:19:06,664
Jon Berg made an armature,
373
00:19:06,824 --> 00:19:10,583
I sculpted a puppet
and cast it in foam latex,
374
00:19:10,744 --> 00:19:13,384
and I animated a couple
of shots with this creature.
375
00:19:18,504 --> 00:19:20,384
This was designed
by Phil Tippett.
376
00:19:20,544 --> 00:19:22,704
It's a stop-motion whatchamacallit,
377
00:19:22,864 --> 00:19:24,784
which we used in a sequence
in the picture--
378
00:19:24,944 --> 00:19:26,384
Explain how that's done.
379
00:19:26,544 --> 00:19:28,984
Well, we move it
this much and take a shot,
380
00:19:29,144 --> 00:19:30,344
and this much and take a shot,
381
00:19:30,504 --> 00:19:31,904
and the sophistication is mainly
382
00:19:32,064 --> 00:19:33,903
in the lighting,
which is very important,
383
00:19:34,064 --> 00:19:36,384
and the number of movements
that you can do,
384
00:19:36,544 --> 00:19:38,904
and not knock him over
and have to start over.
385
00:19:39,064 --> 00:19:40,343
Very soon after that, I think,
386
00:19:40,504 --> 00:19:42,904
then came the big move
up to the Bay Area,
387
00:19:43,064 --> 00:19:47,584
when George Lucas decided
to set up, you know, ILM.
388
00:19:47,743 --> 00:19:48,983
So we moved to San Francisco.
389
00:19:49,144 --> 00:19:50,344
I just never saw Phil,
390
00:19:50,504 --> 00:19:52,464
he was just consistently working
391
00:19:52,624 --> 00:19:54,024
'cause it was for Empire Strike Back.
392
00:19:55,703 --> 00:19:57,224
For The Empire Strikes Back,
393
00:19:57,384 --> 00:19:58,984
Dennis Muren convinced
George Lucas
394
00:19:59,144 --> 00:20:01,264
to, you know, consider
doing stop-motion.
395
00:20:01,424 --> 00:20:03,024
This Tauntaun creature was in it.
396
00:20:03,184 --> 00:20:05,744
And I said, "How the heck
are you planning on doing this?"
397
00:20:05,904 --> 00:20:07,984
It was a snow lizard in the script.
398
00:20:08,144 --> 00:20:10,064
Previously, the Tauntaun
was gonna be a guy
399
00:20:10,224 --> 00:20:11,704
in a suit somehow.
400
00:20:11,864 --> 00:20:14,504
It was clear
that it was not gonna work,
401
00:20:14,664 --> 00:20:16,024
so I just pushed on and said,
402
00:20:16,184 --> 00:20:17,384
"We really should do the stop-motion."
403
00:20:17,544 --> 00:20:19,344
I'm a big fan of stop-motion,
404
00:20:19,504 --> 00:20:21,944
but the advantage of it is the control.
405
00:20:22,104 --> 00:20:24,264
So you've got control over everything.
406
00:20:24,424 --> 00:20:26,423
So George said,
"Okay, let's do it that way."
407
00:20:26,584 --> 00:20:28,544
And so he hired me, initially,
408
00:20:28,704 --> 00:20:32,104
to come up with some designs
for the Tauntaun.
409
00:20:32,264 --> 00:20:35,024
And I spent like
two or three days just doing
410
00:20:35,184 --> 00:20:37,943
like a dozen sketches:
It could be this, it could be that,
411
00:20:38,104 --> 00:20:39,304
it could be that,
it could be this,
412
00:20:39,464 --> 00:20:40,744
it could be that...
413
00:20:43,384 --> 00:20:46,384
So I sent all these drawings up to him
414
00:20:46,544 --> 00:20:48,144
and he picked one,
415
00:20:48,304 --> 00:20:51,103
and asked to see
a three-dimensional model of it,
416
00:20:51,264 --> 00:20:53,784
and I made a three-dimensional
clay sculpture of it,
417
00:20:53,944 --> 00:20:58,024
and he said,
"Yeah, that's a Tauntaun."
418
00:21:02,424 --> 00:21:04,904
I was hired
by Phil and Jon Berg,
419
00:21:05,064 --> 00:21:07,824
late 1978, to work
on The Empire Strikes Back.
420
00:21:07,983 --> 00:21:10,303
I worked on the Tauntaun
armature with Doug Beswick,
421
00:21:10,464 --> 00:21:12,144
a very fine animator
and a good friend.
422
00:21:16,664 --> 00:21:18,984
The basic principle
behind stop-motion
423
00:21:19,144 --> 00:21:22,504
hasn't changed
for like 80 years, really.
424
00:21:22,664 --> 00:21:24,344
You build a model of some kind,
425
00:21:24,504 --> 00:21:25,984
you would have a start pose,
426
00:21:26,144 --> 00:21:28,424
and then you would shoot
a frame of film,
427
00:21:28,584 --> 00:21:30,704
walk up and make a little move,
428
00:21:30,864 --> 00:21:32,584
go back behind the camera,
429
00:21:32,744 --> 00:21:34,024
shoot another frame,
430
00:21:34,184 --> 00:21:36,144
come back,
make another little move,
431
00:21:36,304 --> 00:21:38,304
go back and so on and so forth.
432
00:21:38,464 --> 00:21:41,384
What we tried to do
was to think sculpturally.
433
00:21:41,544 --> 00:21:44,824
You know, think of this
as a moving sculpture.
434
00:21:51,744 --> 00:21:53,544
Stop-motion's a lot like sculpting.
435
00:21:53,704 --> 00:21:55,344
You're like building a performance
436
00:21:55,504 --> 00:21:58,344
by doing little moves,
437
00:21:58,504 --> 00:22:01,384
you know, and people say,
"Oh, this is tedious,"
438
00:22:01,544 --> 00:22:04,343
and it's like, "Well, it's
as tedious as sculpting is,"
439
00:22:04,504 --> 00:22:08,264
you just build these things up,
bit by bit by bit.
440
00:22:08,424 --> 00:22:10,383
When you shoot ordinary stop-motion,
441
00:22:10,544 --> 00:22:13,224
every frame is a very clear frame,
442
00:22:13,384 --> 00:22:15,704
it's very sharp, there's no blurs.
443
00:22:15,863 --> 00:22:18,544
Which I particularly
like, aesthetically.
444
00:22:18,704 --> 00:22:21,744
But as the B-movies, you know,
445
00:22:21,903 --> 00:22:23,704
the Ray Harryhausen movies were rolling
446
00:22:23,864 --> 00:22:27,424
into like the "A"
Star Wars type pictures,
447
00:22:27,584 --> 00:22:29,464
it was imperative to try
448
00:22:29,624 --> 00:22:33,064
and get the look of things
more photographic.
449
00:22:33,224 --> 00:22:36,224
If you looked at frames of
a horse running, there's blurs.
450
00:22:36,384 --> 00:22:38,544
We needed to find
some way to put blurs
451
00:22:38,704 --> 00:22:40,104
into the stop-motion,
452
00:22:40,264 --> 00:22:41,864
it had a better chance
of looking real.
453
00:22:42,024 --> 00:22:44,144
For example,
we have this light here.
454
00:22:44,304 --> 00:22:45,704
So if, for some reason,
455
00:22:45,864 --> 00:22:48,503
say you wanna do
some stop-motion on this light,
456
00:22:48,664 --> 00:22:51,344
you'd move it to there
and you shoot a frame,
457
00:22:51,504 --> 00:22:53,424
and then you move it to there
and you shoot a frame
458
00:22:53,583 --> 00:22:55,264
and you move it
to there and you shoot a frame.
459
00:22:55,424 --> 00:22:56,664
And when you run it,
460
00:22:56,824 --> 00:22:58,464
it looks like it's moving by itself.
461
00:22:58,624 --> 00:23:00,104
That's hand animation.
462
00:23:00,264 --> 00:23:02,304
If you replace this little joint here--
463
00:23:02,464 --> 00:23:03,424
instead of with your hand,
and you put
464
00:23:03,583 --> 00:23:04,944
a little motor there--
465
00:23:05,103 --> 00:23:07,584
that can turn this by plugging it in,
466
00:23:07,744 --> 00:23:09,384
turning power on to get it to do that,
467
00:23:09,544 --> 00:23:10,904
then you're controlling the motion,
468
00:23:11,064 --> 00:23:12,704
that's why it's called motion control.
469
00:23:12,864 --> 00:23:15,344
And the motion is controlled
by a computer,
470
00:23:15,504 --> 00:23:17,184
just how far to move that.
471
00:23:17,344 --> 00:23:19,184
So the Tauntaun,
472
00:23:19,344 --> 00:23:20,384
when it was running across,
473
00:23:20,544 --> 00:23:22,224
we had a rod attached to it,
474
00:23:22,383 --> 00:23:24,184
and the rod was attached
to a motor,
475
00:23:24,344 --> 00:23:27,104
and as each frame
is actually being shot,
476
00:23:27,264 --> 00:23:28,624
between the time Phil animates,
477
00:23:28,784 --> 00:23:31,224
the motor slides
the whole puppet along
478
00:23:31,384 --> 00:23:32,864
like about an inch.
479
00:23:33,024 --> 00:23:34,744
And so, the whole thing
is blurred,
480
00:23:34,904 --> 00:23:36,984
and even if the blurs
aren't quite right,
481
00:23:37,144 --> 00:23:39,224
at least they add something to it.
482
00:23:41,744 --> 00:23:44,024
Most of Phil's designs
were creatures,
483
00:23:44,183 --> 00:23:47,864
and soft, organic things.
484
00:23:48,023 --> 00:23:50,664
He never wanted to design
any kind of hardware stuff.
485
00:23:52,904 --> 00:23:55,504
Joe Johnston's
design of the walker
486
00:23:55,664 --> 00:23:56,984
was very complicated.
487
00:23:57,144 --> 00:23:59,823
Jon Berg has
a great engineering mind,
488
00:23:59,984 --> 00:24:03,103
and so, they worked together
to figure out
489
00:24:03,264 --> 00:24:04,984
all sorts of complicated things,
490
00:24:05,144 --> 00:24:08,024
since what you were actually
going to be seeing on film
491
00:24:08,183 --> 00:24:10,944
was going to be
the actual physical armature--
492
00:24:11,104 --> 00:24:12,784
it's not covered over
by rubber or anything.
493
00:24:12,944 --> 00:24:15,784
During the design
process of the snow walker,
494
00:24:15,944 --> 00:24:20,224
I found this brochure that had
been published by U.S. Steel.
495
00:24:20,383 --> 00:24:22,984
And it was
these paintings by Syd Mead,
496
00:24:23,144 --> 00:24:24,904
and there was one panel--
497
00:24:25,064 --> 00:24:27,624
it was a walking truck,
basically--
498
00:24:27,784 --> 00:24:29,784
and it was walking
through the snow.
499
00:24:29,944 --> 00:24:32,104
I saw this thing,
and I'm gonna adapt it
500
00:24:32,264 --> 00:24:35,144
to an armored transport.
501
00:24:37,784 --> 00:24:40,104
I think the success
of the snow walker
502
00:24:40,264 --> 00:24:41,984
is that it walks like an animal
503
00:24:42,144 --> 00:24:44,184
and yet it moves like a machine.
504
00:24:48,024 --> 00:24:49,944
It's one of the best examples
505
00:24:50,104 --> 00:24:51,984
of what stop-motion can do.
506
00:24:52,144 --> 00:24:53,624
Dennis came up with this idea
507
00:24:53,784 --> 00:24:56,944
of doing it super old-school
508
00:24:57,104 --> 00:24:58,904
and freeing up the camera,
509
00:24:59,063 --> 00:25:02,704
and shooting the white,
big background paintings,
510
00:25:02,864 --> 00:25:04,944
that Mike Pangrazio was doing.
511
00:25:05,103 --> 00:25:06,424
When it was called for,
512
00:25:06,584 --> 00:25:09,864
three walkers
to be in the same shot,
513
00:25:10,024 --> 00:25:13,264
Jon Berg and Doug Beswick
and myself were the animators.
514
00:25:13,424 --> 00:25:16,224
They animated it
like it was one mind
515
00:25:16,384 --> 00:25:17,344
animating the thing.
516
00:25:17,504 --> 00:25:19,503
They're all moving the same,
517
00:25:19,664 --> 00:25:21,624
which is really amazing.
518
00:25:21,784 --> 00:25:23,224
They all look like--
The machine itself
519
00:25:23,384 --> 00:25:26,064
is dictating how it moves,
not the animator.
520
00:25:26,223 --> 00:25:29,103
For some of the bigger strafing shots,
521
00:25:29,264 --> 00:25:32,663
we build trap doors
in like really large sets,
522
00:25:32,824 --> 00:25:34,104
on the main stage,
523
00:25:34,264 --> 00:25:36,104
and for every frame,
we would pop up
524
00:25:36,264 --> 00:25:38,184
and animate the walkers
525
00:25:38,344 --> 00:25:41,303
and then go down
and the frame would be shot.
526
00:25:49,464 --> 00:25:51,424
And then Phil contacted me
527
00:25:51,583 --> 00:25:53,584
about coming up for a year to work,
528
00:25:53,744 --> 00:25:56,504
specifically, on a film
called Dragonslayer.
529
00:25:56,663 --> 00:25:57,984
I didn't know a lot about it,
but he said,
530
00:25:58,144 --> 00:25:59,984
"We're gonna do
a really cool dragon."
531
00:26:06,504 --> 00:26:08,183
The design of the dragon,
532
00:26:08,344 --> 00:26:09,904
of Vermithrax Pejorative
in Dragonslayer
533
00:26:10,064 --> 00:26:12,624
was really an interesting process.
534
00:26:12,784 --> 00:26:14,144
There had been an artist on board
535
00:26:14,304 --> 00:26:16,384
who had done a design sketch,
536
00:26:16,543 --> 00:26:20,704
and Phil kinda said,
"This is our starting point."
537
00:26:20,864 --> 00:26:23,464
And he really,
really was interested,
538
00:26:23,624 --> 00:26:27,744
and intent on designing
the ultimate dragon.
539
00:26:27,904 --> 00:26:29,224
Most of the inspiration
540
00:26:29,384 --> 00:26:30,664
was taken from the script.
541
00:26:30,824 --> 00:26:32,904
It needed to be very old
and very crotchety
542
00:26:33,064 --> 00:26:35,984
and very mean--
it had lived too long...
543
00:26:36,144 --> 00:26:40,864
And it was a classic
mythological character
544
00:26:41,024 --> 00:26:43,904
that was this malevolent force of nature.
545
00:26:44,064 --> 00:26:45,264
That's an abstraction,
546
00:26:45,424 --> 00:26:47,304
but you have
to start somewhere.
547
00:26:47,464 --> 00:26:50,224
And so I would look
at a lot of reference material
548
00:26:50,384 --> 00:26:53,384
of big lizards, like Komodo
dragons and things like that,
549
00:26:53,544 --> 00:26:55,503
and looked at their foot fall--
I did a lot of research.
550
00:26:55,664 --> 00:26:57,224
He knew the emotional response
551
00:26:57,384 --> 00:26:59,624
that he wanted to portray
in the dragon.
552
00:27:03,584 --> 00:27:05,463
I built the armatures
on Dragonslayer.
553
00:27:06,664 --> 00:27:07,544
We were able to hook up
554
00:27:07,704 --> 00:27:09,784
motion control equipment.
555
00:27:09,944 --> 00:27:12,824
They came up
with the term go-motion.
556
00:27:14,344 --> 00:27:16,184
I always thought it was kinda funny.
557
00:27:16,344 --> 00:27:17,824
Like, "Stop. Okay this..."
558
00:27:17,984 --> 00:27:20,184
Now, stop-motion
and now you have go-motion.
559
00:27:20,344 --> 00:27:23,864
The go-motion thing was
very counter-intuitive.
560
00:27:24,024 --> 00:27:28,624
Instead of kind of
intuitively sculpting in time,
561
00:27:28,783 --> 00:27:32,384
you had to have
a very clear previsualization
562
00:27:32,544 --> 00:27:34,904
of what the thing needed to be,
563
00:27:35,367 --> 00:27:38,599
and kind of abstractly
break that down into axes
564
00:27:38,815 --> 00:27:40,887
until it all came together.
565
00:27:41,021 --> 00:27:43,093
It broke down to three basic puppets.
566
00:27:43,277 --> 00:27:46,078
Phil did this incredibly cool go-motion
567
00:27:46,360 --> 00:27:49,410
walking dragon, which was used
a lot in all the cavern scenes.
568
00:27:49,592 --> 00:27:52,493
Ken Ralston did a much
smaller flying dragon
569
00:27:52,658 --> 00:27:54,333
which was done mostly in white shots.
570
00:27:54,465 --> 00:27:56,901
And I wind up doing a large hand puppet
571
00:27:57,034 --> 00:27:58,410
for some of the closeup shots.
572
00:27:58,584 --> 00:28:01,037
And then to see it all come
together on the screen was great
573
00:28:01,202 --> 00:28:03,221
and as almost everybody
seeing the film says
574
00:28:03,622 --> 00:28:06,009
when that dragon comes
walking down that cavern
575
00:28:06,216 --> 00:28:08,238
that first go-motion shot, it's...
576
00:28:08,603 --> 00:28:09,531
you're sold.
577
00:28:09,746 --> 00:28:12,166
That's Vermithrax,
that's the real dragon.
578
00:28:15,564 --> 00:28:17,266
I thought the movement of the dragon
579
00:28:17,296 --> 00:28:18,696
in Dragonslayer was just amazing,
580
00:28:18,879 --> 00:28:21,149
I mean, you could see right away
that this is like...
581
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:23,892
you know, much better than
work that been done before.
582
00:28:24,058 --> 00:28:25,644
So we were
just winding up Dragonslayer
583
00:28:25,804 --> 00:28:28,044
and Phil came in
one day and said,
584
00:28:28,174 --> 00:28:31,734
"George Lucas has a new picture
called Revenge of the Jedi."
585
00:28:31,893 --> 00:28:34,814
I was like,
"Work on a Star Wars movie?"
586
00:28:34,974 --> 00:28:36,973
This is like--
That was the ultimate
587
00:28:37,134 --> 00:28:38,213
you could possibly do on the planet
588
00:28:38,374 --> 00:28:39,573
as an effects person.
589
00:28:39,734 --> 00:28:41,014
I asked him,
"So what are we designing?"
590
00:28:41,174 --> 00:28:42,733
And he just said,
"Just design whatever you want,
591
00:28:42,894 --> 00:28:44,294
"design a whole bunch of aliens,
592
00:28:44,454 --> 00:28:45,893
and George will sort it out."
593
00:28:55,873 --> 00:28:57,554
For Return of the Jedi, George asked me
594
00:28:57,714 --> 00:28:58,914
to head up the creature shop.
595
00:28:59,074 --> 00:29:00,074
There wasn't even a script yet.
596
00:29:00,234 --> 00:29:01,594
He said there was a scene
597
00:29:01,754 --> 00:29:02,954
that's gonna be
kinda like the Cantina,
598
00:29:03,114 --> 00:29:04,513
only bigger.
I put all my effort
599
00:29:04,674 --> 00:29:06,433
into doing three-dimensional stuff,
600
00:29:06,594 --> 00:29:09,514
which I found, particularly
for George, worked really well.
601
00:29:09,674 --> 00:29:11,434
He really responded
to three-dimensional stuff
602
00:29:11,594 --> 00:29:13,630
viscerally,
you know, right there.
603
00:29:13,796 --> 00:29:14,954
Because when you do
a drawing and it's cool,
604
00:29:15,114 --> 00:29:16,474
and it's whatever,
you still have
605
00:29:16,634 --> 00:29:17,994
to interpret that,
606
00:29:18,154 --> 00:29:20,489
and it changes again
from the interpretation.
607
00:29:20,671 --> 00:29:23,914
And this is like, oh,
this thing has that feeling,
608
00:29:24,074 --> 00:29:26,834
I can see it, it has light,
you know, I can see an angle,
609
00:29:26,994 --> 00:29:29,839
I can really imagine
what that thing could be.
610
00:29:30,021 --> 00:29:32,375
For Jabba the Hutt,
the direction that we got was,
611
00:29:32,557 --> 00:29:34,034
"It should be like a big slug."
612
00:29:34,594 --> 00:29:37,754
And so,
we all did different versions
613
00:29:37,914 --> 00:29:39,883
of what that could be.
614
00:29:40,066 --> 00:29:43,794
The first one I did was
like a four-armed creature
615
00:29:43,954 --> 00:29:45,714
that George thought
it looked too much
616
00:29:45,874 --> 00:29:46,754
like Ming the Merciless.
617
00:29:46,914 --> 00:29:48,154
The second one I did,
618
00:29:48,314 --> 00:29:50,514
he thought was too gross.
619
00:29:50,674 --> 00:29:54,194
So I asked,
"If you could cast an actor
620
00:29:54,473 --> 00:29:56,794
to play the part,
who would that be?"
621
00:29:56,954 --> 00:29:59,674
And he thought for a second
and said, "Sidney Greenstreet."
622
00:30:00,042 --> 00:30:01,234
And that was
623
00:30:01,649 --> 00:30:03,394
the direction that I needed
624
00:30:03,554 --> 00:30:05,354
to all of a sudden, I... I...
625
00:30:05,514 --> 00:30:08,344
I didn't see what it should be,
626
00:30:08,674 --> 00:30:10,434
but I understood the character.
627
00:30:12,594 --> 00:30:14,754
And so I sculpted up this thing
628
00:30:14,914 --> 00:30:17,114
that ended up becoming
the design
629
00:30:17,274 --> 00:30:19,914
that Stuart Freeborn
and his team executed
630
00:30:20,073 --> 00:30:23,754
as a huge puppet
with like five operators.
631
00:30:27,914 --> 00:30:29,354
What I realized with Phil is like,
632
00:30:29,514 --> 00:30:31,474
he's really good at blocking out
633
00:30:31,634 --> 00:30:32,874
very primitive shapes,
634
00:30:33,034 --> 00:30:34,193
and then he adds the detail,
635
00:30:34,354 --> 00:30:37,594
whereas a lot of
other designers today,
636
00:30:37,753 --> 00:30:39,914
they kind of start hitting it
with the detail
637
00:30:40,074 --> 00:30:42,474
long before they found the form.
638
00:30:42,634 --> 00:30:44,473
One of the reasons why I think
a lot of the designs,
639
00:30:44,634 --> 00:30:46,114
especially with Star Wars,
640
00:30:46,274 --> 00:30:47,874
stayed relevant for so long
641
00:30:48,034 --> 00:30:50,074
is that, at their core,
642
00:30:50,233 --> 00:30:53,874
they're very powerful,
instinctive forms and shapes--
643
00:30:54,034 --> 00:30:55,274
like the Rancor monster--
644
00:30:55,434 --> 00:30:57,634
you know instinctively what it is.
645
00:30:58,834 --> 00:31:00,194
The Rancor was a puppet that
646
00:31:00,354 --> 00:31:02,434
I put my hand up into
647
00:31:02,594 --> 00:31:04,034
and operated the mouth,
648
00:31:04,304 --> 00:31:06,754
and Tom St. Amand had rods
649
00:31:06,914 --> 00:31:08,597
that Dennis had to light out
650
00:31:08,763 --> 00:31:10,474
to make the mechanical hands work.
651
00:31:10,634 --> 00:31:12,274
If you shot it
at normal speed
652
00:31:12,434 --> 00:31:14,714
and just moved it,
653
00:31:14,874 --> 00:31:16,354
right away, you'd say
there's something wrong,
654
00:31:16,514 --> 00:31:18,073
I recognize that.
655
00:31:18,234 --> 00:31:19,154
And after a little while,
656
00:31:19,313 --> 00:31:20,434
"Oh, I know what they're doing,
657
00:31:20,594 --> 00:31:22,114
it's a little puppet," you know.
658
00:31:22,416 --> 00:31:23,674
So, to get away from that
659
00:31:23,833 --> 00:31:25,674
and to make it look bigger
and heavier,
660
00:31:25,834 --> 00:31:26,874
we did a lot of tricks.
661
00:31:27,034 --> 00:31:28,474
The Rancor pit sequence
662
00:31:28,633 --> 00:31:30,874
was shot
as a high-speed puppet.
663
00:31:31,034 --> 00:31:33,634
We had to shoot really fast,
and so we were like...
664
00:31:35,644 --> 00:31:38,074
We had to move that quickly
and be coordinated,
665
00:31:38,233 --> 00:31:41,994
so we did tons
and tons and tons of takes.
666
00:31:46,184 --> 00:31:47,744
While we were shooting
the Rancor,
667
00:31:47,904 --> 00:31:48,864
one of the biggest lights
668
00:31:49,023 --> 00:31:51,304
was up there by the ceiling,
669
00:31:51,464 --> 00:31:53,024
but the knob
hadn't been tightened down,
670
00:31:53,184 --> 00:31:55,584
so this big hundred-pound light
came down
671
00:31:55,743 --> 00:31:59,544
and squished this part
of my hand, like right there.
672
00:31:59,704 --> 00:32:02,424
It was very painful,
but then we had to shoot,
673
00:32:02,584 --> 00:32:04,304
so I put my hand up the thing,
674
00:32:04,464 --> 00:32:05,984
we were performing.
675
00:32:06,144 --> 00:32:08,344
My hand just swole up
inside this thing.
676
00:32:08,503 --> 00:32:10,784
My hand swole up, I couldn't--
I couldn't pull it out.
677
00:32:10,944 --> 00:32:16,384
So I had to eat my lunch
with my hand up Rancor's ass.
678
00:32:23,863 --> 00:32:25,744
There was a character
that I designed,
679
00:32:25,904 --> 00:32:27,384
it was a small thing
680
00:32:27,649 --> 00:32:29,984
and it fit down to your waist,
681
00:32:30,285 --> 00:32:32,064
and it was gonna be playing
a piano,
682
00:32:32,456 --> 00:32:34,104
kind of a keyboard instrument.
683
00:32:34,264 --> 00:32:36,304
We were rehearsing
684
00:32:36,464 --> 00:32:38,304
and George had chosen
685
00:32:38,464 --> 00:32:40,183
a temp track to rehearse to,
686
00:32:40,344 --> 00:32:41,704
which was "Superfreak."
687
00:32:44,784 --> 00:32:46,824
There wasn't
anybody else around,
688
00:32:46,984 --> 00:32:48,504
so I got into this outfit
689
00:32:48,664 --> 00:32:50,463
and was just rehearsing
690
00:32:50,624 --> 00:32:51,664
to make sure that it was
691
00:32:51,824 --> 00:32:54,121
all gonna work properly.
692
00:32:54,384 --> 00:32:58,464
And I have no sense of rhythm
693
00:32:58,624 --> 00:33:00,504
and I can't dance.
694
00:33:00,664 --> 00:33:02,263
But I got in this thing,
I was like,
695
00:33:02,424 --> 00:33:05,024
"Okay, we'll turn on music
and then we'll film it,"
696
00:33:05,184 --> 00:33:06,424
and my wife walked in.
697
00:33:06,584 --> 00:33:09,104
And I saw this
kind of blue character
698
00:33:09,264 --> 00:33:11,504
dancing to "Superfreak."
699
00:33:11,664 --> 00:33:13,424
And he was dancing away,
700
00:33:13,584 --> 00:33:15,224
and seemed to have
the beat and everything,
701
00:33:15,384 --> 00:33:16,663
and I'm like, "That's cool!"
702
00:33:18,344 --> 00:33:20,584
She goes, "Who's that?
703
00:33:20,744 --> 00:33:22,224
And who's in the suit?
Where's Phil?"
704
00:33:22,384 --> 00:33:23,664
And you know,
"Phil's in the suit."
705
00:33:23,824 --> 00:33:25,544
"No, that's not Phil.
706
00:33:25,703 --> 00:33:26,904
Phil can't dance."
707
00:33:27,064 --> 00:33:28,824
And then he took the thing off
708
00:33:28,984 --> 00:33:30,064
and it was Phil! I'm like...
709
00:33:30,879 --> 00:33:32,584
The point is, is that
710
00:33:32,868 --> 00:33:35,784
once one puts on a mask
711
00:33:36,100 --> 00:33:38,183
or change your physicality,
712
00:33:38,344 --> 00:33:40,944
you can become something else
that you're not.
713
00:33:41,104 --> 00:33:44,984
You can inhabit what that character is.
714
00:33:45,144 --> 00:33:46,984
You know, if you look
at these Star Wars films,
715
00:33:47,144 --> 00:33:48,464
they're sort of like school.
716
00:33:48,624 --> 00:33:51,623
You know,
you got your three classes,
717
00:33:51,784 --> 00:33:54,064
each one's lasting three years,
718
00:33:54,224 --> 00:33:55,534
of working on this thing,
719
00:33:55,832 --> 00:33:57,464
and when you're done,
720
00:33:57,624 --> 00:33:59,104
then you kind of go on
to something else
721
00:33:59,264 --> 00:34:00,758
and that's what Phil wanted to do.
722
00:34:00,924 --> 00:34:03,264
And he got an Oscar for Jedi too,
so that was like,
723
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:07,104
"Yes, go on, young man,"
to the world, you know.
724
00:34:14,071 --> 00:34:17,143
After having worked on
three Star Wars movies,
725
00:34:17,304 --> 00:34:20,304
pretty consecutively,
that were interrupted
726
00:34:20,464 --> 00:34:22,384
by Raiders and Dragonslayer,
727
00:34:22,544 --> 00:34:24,196
it was time to move on,
728
00:34:24,511 --> 00:34:28,103
and there wasn't anything
to move on to, really.
729
00:34:28,264 --> 00:34:29,384
He just kind of like got,
730
00:34:29,544 --> 00:34:32,624
was absolutely,
completely depleted,
731
00:34:32,784 --> 00:34:35,196
and I think at that point,
he was kind of done
732
00:34:35,704 --> 00:34:37,944
with working at ILM.
733
00:34:38,163 --> 00:34:41,143
And so it was
an opportunity for me
734
00:34:41,304 --> 00:34:44,224
to do what I kinda needed to do,
735
00:34:44,384 --> 00:34:46,664
was to get what drove me
736
00:34:46,824 --> 00:34:48,744
into all of this as a kid
out of my system
737
00:34:48,904 --> 00:34:52,064
by making my own short dinosaur movie.
738
00:34:52,224 --> 00:34:54,424
That's when he decided
to do Prehistoric Beast
739
00:34:54,583 --> 00:34:55,704
in the garage.
740
00:34:55,864 --> 00:34:57,304
I was so obsessed
741
00:34:57,463 --> 00:34:59,383
with all of that stuff
in King Kong when I was a kid,
742
00:34:59,544 --> 00:35:02,904
I had to do something
to make it go away. Heh.
743
00:35:03,064 --> 00:35:05,744
And so that's
what Prehistoric Beast was,
744
00:35:05,904 --> 00:35:08,144
it was actually putting
a nail in that coffin
745
00:35:08,304 --> 00:35:10,064
and saying--
746
00:35:10,224 --> 00:35:13,503
The title is
a line from King Kong.
747
00:35:13,664 --> 00:35:17,144
So I made this 16mm short
called Prehistoric Beast
748
00:35:17,304 --> 00:35:20,064
that I thought I could sell
to educational channels,
749
00:35:20,223 --> 00:35:21,504
because it would be--
That's the kind of thing
750
00:35:21,664 --> 00:35:22,944
I'd have liked to see
when I was a kid.
751
00:35:23,103 --> 00:35:26,744
When Phil told me
he was doing Prehistoric Beast,
752
00:35:26,904 --> 00:35:28,784
I thought, "Oh, that's
interesting, but why?"
753
00:35:28,944 --> 00:35:31,864
It seemed like
a step backwards or something,
754
00:35:32,023 --> 00:35:33,584
I was still working at ILM
755
00:35:33,744 --> 00:35:37,304
where we're just like
pushing the envelope,
756
00:35:37,464 --> 00:35:38,904
technically, all the time.
757
00:35:39,064 --> 00:35:41,264
That's not
where Phil's interests were.
758
00:35:41,424 --> 00:35:42,664
He was going for an aesthetic.
759
00:35:42,824 --> 00:35:45,624
When it was over, I just felt
760
00:35:45,784 --> 00:35:47,464
that it was absolutely
the right choice to do that
761
00:35:47,624 --> 00:35:50,784
because nobody has any idea
what you have in your mind.
762
00:35:54,264 --> 00:35:56,784
It was
paleontologically accurate,
763
00:35:56,944 --> 00:35:58,623
and it was a narrative,
764
00:35:58,784 --> 00:36:02,784
but any of the exhibitors
I took it to said,
765
00:36:02,944 --> 00:36:04,663
"It's too scary for kids.
766
00:36:04,824 --> 00:36:07,064
"You know, if you got one kid
that started crying,
767
00:36:07,224 --> 00:36:08,784
then, that's over."
768
00:36:19,453 --> 00:36:21,704
He was
messing around with zooms
769
00:36:21,864 --> 00:36:24,784
and moving cameras,
and rack focuses,
770
00:36:24,944 --> 00:36:26,664
just things you didn't see being done
771
00:36:26,824 --> 00:36:28,663
in stop-motion films at that time.
772
00:36:28,972 --> 00:36:30,928
He was bringing them up a level
773
00:36:31,226 --> 00:36:32,223
and incorporating them
774
00:36:32,384 --> 00:36:34,591
into a more naturalistic filmmaking style.
775
00:36:44,697 --> 00:36:45,943
And from there,
776
00:36:46,104 --> 00:36:48,144
a production company in New York
777
00:36:48,608 --> 00:36:50,544
called Philips Mark
778
00:36:50,704 --> 00:36:52,144
wanted to do a documentary
779
00:36:52,304 --> 00:36:54,864
on dinosaurs,
which we ultimately did.
780
00:36:55,024 --> 00:36:56,944
So that's when I started my studio.
781
00:36:57,104 --> 00:37:00,704
We rented a space
and we hired some people
782
00:37:00,864 --> 00:37:03,064
and it was old-fashioned stop-motion:
783
00:37:03,223 --> 00:37:04,664
so, sculpting, casting...
784
00:37:04,824 --> 00:37:07,344
We got to put all that stuff together
and cut it together,
785
00:37:07,504 --> 00:37:09,304
and Jules edited it
786
00:37:09,464 --> 00:37:11,264
and did all the sound effects work.
787
00:37:11,424 --> 00:37:12,864
That was fun doing that.
788
00:37:17,384 --> 00:37:19,384
We actually bought
a warehouse to work in,
789
00:37:19,543 --> 00:37:20,824
basically from the money
790
00:37:20,984 --> 00:37:22,544
that Phil was allowed to participate
791
00:37:22,704 --> 00:37:24,904
from the profits of Jedi,
which was amazing.
792
00:37:25,064 --> 00:37:27,104
Thank you, George Lucas,
for letting us have
793
00:37:27,264 --> 00:37:28,744
a little tiny, tiny, tiny percentage
794
00:37:28,904 --> 00:37:30,744
of a percentage of a percentage,
795
00:37:30,904 --> 00:37:32,667
but it was actually very
significant and meaningful,
796
00:37:32,916 --> 00:37:35,344
and allowed us to,
to actually start our business.
797
00:37:43,683 --> 00:37:45,224
I was never a business man.
798
00:37:46,504 --> 00:37:48,304
I mean, if business
799
00:37:48,464 --> 00:37:49,703
was left up to me,
I would have been
800
00:37:49,864 --> 00:37:51,584
out of business 30 years ago.
801
00:37:54,344 --> 00:37:56,023
He has
to always be making something
802
00:37:56,184 --> 00:37:57,464
or drawing something,
803
00:37:57,624 --> 00:37:58,984
and he didn't really want
804
00:37:59,144 --> 00:38:01,024
to be involved
with running the company
805
00:38:01,184 --> 00:38:02,624
on the level that I had to run it.
806
00:38:02,784 --> 00:38:05,144
I gradually learned
and I took some courses
807
00:38:05,304 --> 00:38:07,584
and I joined a group that trained CEOs
808
00:38:07,744 --> 00:38:09,744
and I learned how to run a business
809
00:38:09,904 --> 00:38:11,991
with creative people,
810
00:38:12,190 --> 00:38:14,424
because it's not always that easy.
811
00:38:14,584 --> 00:38:16,784
Probably the smartest thing
Phil Tippett ever did
812
00:38:16,944 --> 00:38:18,544
was to marry Jules.
813
00:38:18,704 --> 00:38:20,464
Jules was always in charge
814
00:38:20,624 --> 00:38:23,129
of the production aspect of the effects--
815
00:38:23,394 --> 00:38:26,593
from Piranha on,
she just ran the show.
816
00:38:26,792 --> 00:38:28,549
You know, Phil would have
been out of business
817
00:38:28,715 --> 00:38:30,824
a hundred times if it wasn't for Jules.
818
00:38:30,983 --> 00:38:34,423
I mean, she has managed
to keep all these shops
819
00:38:34,584 --> 00:38:37,983
and all these people running
for decades.
820
00:38:48,029 --> 00:38:50,463
I got a call from my friend Jon Davison,
821
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:52,383
who produced Piranha.
822
00:38:52,544 --> 00:38:54,384
That he had acquired
a screenplay
823
00:38:54,544 --> 00:38:56,292
by Ed Neumeier and Michael Miner
824
00:38:56,474 --> 00:38:57,504
called Robocop.
825
00:38:57,664 --> 00:39:01,384
There was a big monster robot
in it, ED-209.
826
00:39:01,544 --> 00:39:03,623
When I first read the screenplay
for Robocop,
827
00:39:03,784 --> 00:39:07,344
one of the things
I was first attracted to was
828
00:39:07,504 --> 00:39:10,384
ED-209 was
the perfect opportunity
829
00:39:10,544 --> 00:39:11,664
to work with Phil again.
830
00:39:12,001 --> 00:39:14,064
Jon hired Paul Verhoeven
831
00:39:14,224 --> 00:39:17,384
after having been rejected
by quite a few directors.
832
00:39:17,544 --> 00:39:19,943
And Paul had never done
any visual effects before.
833
00:39:20,104 --> 00:39:22,104
So, I think he was
kind of nervous about that.
834
00:39:22,264 --> 00:39:24,264
Phil, of course,
had to explain to me,
835
00:39:24,424 --> 00:39:26,424
basically,
what we were going to do.
836
00:39:26,584 --> 00:39:28,104
I had never done anything like that.
837
00:39:28,264 --> 00:39:29,543
And so, he had to teach me
838
00:39:29,704 --> 00:39:32,304
what he would do with stop-motion
839
00:39:32,464 --> 00:39:35,064
and how that would be
integrated in the movie.
840
00:39:35,224 --> 00:39:39,064
He couldn't have had a better
mentor than Phil Tippett,
841
00:39:39,224 --> 00:39:40,744
who was there all the time,
842
00:39:40,904 --> 00:39:43,144
and walked him through
843
00:39:43,304 --> 00:39:47,544
how to best spend
our very limited resources.
844
00:39:47,704 --> 00:39:49,224
The budget wasn't that great,
845
00:39:49,384 --> 00:39:51,384
so there was not a lot of money,
846
00:39:51,544 --> 00:39:54,264
so everything had to be
very carefully managed.
847
00:39:54,424 --> 00:39:56,944
I'm not that great
at mechanical design,
848
00:39:57,104 --> 00:39:59,504
so I hired Craig Hayes to come up
849
00:39:59,664 --> 00:40:02,144
with the designs for ED-209.
850
00:40:02,304 --> 00:40:03,703
I met Phil back in the '80s.
851
00:40:03,864 --> 00:40:06,504
I guess it was '85, '84,
somewhere around there.
852
00:40:06,664 --> 00:40:08,624
Phil was working on the big
monster in Howard the Duck.
853
00:40:08,784 --> 00:40:10,143
And so, I got to go
over there and see the stage
854
00:40:10,304 --> 00:40:11,344
where he was working, and see
855
00:40:11,504 --> 00:40:12,584
the go-motion set-up and stuff.
856
00:40:12,743 --> 00:40:13,584
And it was pretty cool.
857
00:40:13,744 --> 00:40:15,184
He was just a kid,
858
00:40:15,344 --> 00:40:17,264
and he brought in
some model parts he made.
859
00:40:17,424 --> 00:40:19,344
And I was like,
"Oh, that's really brilliant!"
860
00:40:25,067 --> 00:40:26,784
These are some of the pieces
of the foam maquettes
861
00:40:26,944 --> 00:40:30,824
that were used to talk through
the design with Paul Verhoeven.
862
00:40:31,283 --> 00:40:34,104
And you can see here--
it's pretty kind of simple.
863
00:40:34,597 --> 00:40:35,584
And, let's see...
864
00:40:35,744 --> 00:40:38,154
So, you can see here,
some piece of the arm,
865
00:40:39,132 --> 00:40:41,984
and it really wasn't much more
developed than this
866
00:40:42,144 --> 00:40:44,544
to be able
to just kind of talk through
867
00:40:44,703 --> 00:40:46,458
what this design would be.
868
00:40:46,744 --> 00:40:50,264
A lot of the ideas were from
military equipment-- tanks, etc.
869
00:40:50,424 --> 00:40:52,103
But a lot of that stuff is very dry.
870
00:40:52,264 --> 00:40:55,744
So, another thing that
I really draw inspiration from,
871
00:40:55,904 --> 00:40:57,704
as most people do, is nature.
872
00:40:58,027 --> 00:40:59,184
So, I really wanted
to kind of figure out
873
00:40:59,344 --> 00:41:01,126
what was the organic component
to this thing.
874
00:41:04,607 --> 00:41:06,704
ED-209 is a great amalgam
875
00:41:06,864 --> 00:41:09,424
of like Japanese aesthetics
876
00:41:09,584 --> 00:41:13,337
mixed with corporate thinking,
877
00:41:13,552 --> 00:41:15,143
with Detroit sensibility.
878
00:41:15,304 --> 00:41:16,864
Especially in 1987,
879
00:41:17,024 --> 00:41:20,503
it was everything that Detroit was--
880
00:41:20,664 --> 00:41:24,063
big, clunky, overdesigned,
881
00:41:24,474 --> 00:41:25,664
made for one thing,
882
00:41:25,824 --> 00:41:29,024
but completely
inappropriate for its task.
883
00:41:29,297 --> 00:41:30,464
It's not perfectly symmetrical.
884
00:41:30,624 --> 00:41:32,664
For instance, these big pods
885
00:41:32,824 --> 00:41:34,144
that are in the front, here,
886
00:41:34,304 --> 00:41:35,962
are exactly the same,
side to side.
887
00:41:36,343 --> 00:41:38,264
But all the weaponry
that's attached to them
888
00:41:38,424 --> 00:41:39,824
is slightly different.
889
00:41:40,188 --> 00:41:41,384
Same thing with the lower legs.
890
00:41:41,544 --> 00:41:43,238
When they originally designed
this guy,
891
00:41:43,404 --> 00:41:46,504
his mouth was actually turned
the other direction.
892
00:41:46,851 --> 00:41:48,984
So, it actually looked
like he had a smile.
893
00:41:49,242 --> 00:41:50,883
Everybody was trying to figure
out what was wrong with him.
894
00:41:51,065 --> 00:41:52,358
And Phil kind of came in and said,
895
00:41:52,524 --> 00:41:54,479
"Yeah, because
he looks like he's smiling.
896
00:41:54,645 --> 00:41:57,304
Why don't you just take that
thing and turn it upside down?"
897
00:41:57,464 --> 00:42:00,543
And like almost immediately,
it became this grimace,
898
00:42:00,804 --> 00:42:02,544
this angry looking face.
899
00:42:06,264 --> 00:42:09,264
Because the budget
was so tight on this thing,
900
00:42:09,424 --> 00:42:10,504
I was going to do everything
901
00:42:10,664 --> 00:42:13,744
very Ray Harryhausen
Dynamation style,
902
00:42:13,904 --> 00:42:15,744
which really kind of limits
how you can go about
903
00:42:15,903 --> 00:42:16,944
designing the shots.
904
00:42:17,104 --> 00:42:18,503
You move it like this.
905
00:42:18,664 --> 00:42:20,344
The next frame,
next frame, next frame,
906
00:42:20,504 --> 00:42:22,184
next frame,
next frame, next frame...
907
00:42:22,343 --> 00:42:23,944
And in the movie,
you will see this.
908
00:42:25,344 --> 00:42:26,544
I grew up with Harryhausen,
909
00:42:26,704 --> 00:42:28,344
of course,
and Phil too, in fact.
910
00:42:28,504 --> 00:42:30,464
If you look at The Argonauts,
911
00:42:30,624 --> 00:42:31,504
it's not so different
912
00:42:31,664 --> 00:42:33,384
from ED-209, isn't it?
913
00:42:33,544 --> 00:42:35,304
I mean, it's also stop-motion.
914
00:42:35,464 --> 00:42:36,984
And there is a beauty to that.
915
00:42:37,144 --> 00:42:38,704
I think what you can do with it,
916
00:42:38,864 --> 00:42:40,183
with the stop-motion is that
917
00:42:40,344 --> 00:42:44,023
it adds a dimension
to the movie of beauty.
918
00:42:45,980 --> 00:42:47,024
There was a problem
919
00:42:47,184 --> 00:42:48,344
that in the boardroom scene,
920
00:42:48,504 --> 00:42:51,664
there were really long dialogue scenes.
921
00:42:52,028 --> 00:42:53,984
The way those shots
needed to be set-up,
922
00:42:54,144 --> 00:42:56,584
the way that Paul
would have to been done
923
00:42:56,744 --> 00:42:59,383
on a blue screen stage,
924
00:42:59,544 --> 00:43:01,424
but there wasn't any money for that.
925
00:43:01,584 --> 00:43:02,864
So, I proposed that we build
926
00:43:03,024 --> 00:43:05,384
a full-scale prop of 209,
927
00:43:05,543 --> 00:43:07,463
this thing that's behind me.
928
00:43:21,784 --> 00:43:23,351
This part right here,
the carapace,
929
00:43:23,490 --> 00:43:25,564
and over and these parts here,
are built
930
00:43:25,724 --> 00:43:26,583
in many ways like a ship,
931
00:43:26,694 --> 00:43:27,654
like you would build a ship.
932
00:43:27,764 --> 00:43:28,844
So, I would build cross sections
933
00:43:29,004 --> 00:43:30,124
out of wood, and then,
934
00:43:30,284 --> 00:43:31,644
in between those cross sections,
935
00:43:31,804 --> 00:43:33,324
lathed very thin strips of wood
936
00:43:33,483 --> 00:43:35,444
to form the basis of the curve.
937
00:43:35,604 --> 00:43:38,324
The killer whale was
a huge influence in the sort of,
938
00:43:38,484 --> 00:43:40,739
you know, the face or the head
of this kind of thing.
939
00:43:40,938 --> 00:43:43,284
And then, we had to do
a missile launcher.
940
00:43:43,444 --> 00:43:45,764
We had to have something
that really told people,
941
00:43:45,924 --> 00:43:48,204
"Uh-oh, something's
gonna happen now."
942
00:43:48,364 --> 00:43:49,884
These pieces here,
these braided,
943
00:43:50,044 --> 00:43:52,283
stainless, kind of
very fancy looking things
944
00:43:52,444 --> 00:43:54,603
come from the plumbing
department in the store.
945
00:43:54,764 --> 00:43:56,404
The guns themselves,
you can see on the front here,
946
00:43:56,564 --> 00:43:59,444
these sort of elaborate looking
machine pieces
947
00:43:59,604 --> 00:44:03,044
are actually like sprinkler,
automatic sprinkler valves.
948
00:44:03,204 --> 00:44:05,204
This piece right here was fun--
this is also kind of cool
949
00:44:05,364 --> 00:44:07,324
because this whole piece
pops off and gives us access
950
00:44:07,484 --> 00:44:08,764
to the interior of the robot.
951
00:44:08,924 --> 00:44:11,324
So, when we're putting it together,
the arms and the base and stuff,
952
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:13,364
we're able to access it through there.
953
00:44:13,524 --> 00:44:16,324
It couldn't move,
so you had to put it there,
954
00:44:16,484 --> 00:44:18,364
and then the moment
that it started to move,
955
00:44:18,524 --> 00:44:21,364
you had to go to stop-motion,
with the miniature.
956
00:44:23,975 --> 00:44:24,844
There is one scene
957
00:44:25,004 --> 00:44:27,084
where he has
to go down a staircase.
958
00:44:27,243 --> 00:44:29,564
He doesn't get it because
he's not programmed for that.
959
00:44:29,723 --> 00:44:31,684
And so, he falls down.
960
00:44:31,844 --> 00:44:33,724
And then he's on his back,
like an insect.
961
00:44:33,884 --> 00:44:35,444
And then he gets irritated,
962
00:44:35,604 --> 00:44:37,884
and he does like this,
agh-agh, like this!
963
00:44:38,044 --> 00:44:39,124
That's all Phil.
964
00:44:42,203 --> 00:44:44,364
I was trying to push Phil
965
00:44:44,523 --> 00:44:47,764
into making the... ED's
966
00:44:47,924 --> 00:44:50,324
fall down the stairs, comedic.
967
00:44:50,484 --> 00:44:54,364
And I also wanted a joke
at his death.
968
00:44:54,524 --> 00:44:56,444
I was in a middle
of shooting the shot,
969
00:44:57,004 --> 00:44:59,604
I got a call from Jon,
who said,
970
00:44:59,764 --> 00:45:02,004
"Can you do something funny?"
971
00:45:02,459 --> 00:45:03,924
"We need a laugh right here."
972
00:45:06,203 --> 00:45:09,083
He completely
surprised me with that shot.
973
00:45:09,244 --> 00:45:12,244
I thought it was so well done,
and so funny!
974
00:45:16,124 --> 00:45:18,084
I did the voice of ED,
by the way.
975
00:45:18,244 --> 00:45:20,304
"Put down your weapon.
976
00:45:20,569 --> 00:45:24,124
You have 14 seconds to comply."
977
00:45:25,884 --> 00:45:28,124
Which is sort of
a bad Roger Corman imitation!
978
00:45:29,776 --> 00:45:32,004
"Put down your weapon!"
979
00:45:32,164 --> 00:45:33,364
When they made
the first Robocop,
980
00:45:33,524 --> 00:45:34,604
they built ED-209,
981
00:45:34,764 --> 00:45:37,244
and of course,
everybody loves ED-209.
982
00:45:37,404 --> 00:45:41,244
And they were actually
incredibly surprised
983
00:45:41,404 --> 00:45:43,124
that within a very short period of time,
984
00:45:43,284 --> 00:45:45,084
there were model kits out of this guy.
985
00:45:45,357 --> 00:45:48,124
And Craig Hayes, apparently,
kind of took offense to that.
986
00:45:48,373 --> 00:45:50,014
And so, for Robocop 2,
987
00:45:50,263 --> 00:45:51,590
he decided that he would make
988
00:45:51,756 --> 00:45:53,364
something so complicated
989
00:45:53,695 --> 00:45:56,684
that nobody could ever duplicate it again.
990
00:45:56,844 --> 00:45:58,084
I mean, certainly,
that's not the only reason
991
00:45:58,244 --> 00:45:59,264
you do something.
992
00:45:59,430 --> 00:46:01,124
You know,
design has got to be for,
993
00:46:01,284 --> 00:46:02,404
to serve its purpose,
994
00:46:02,563 --> 00:46:04,044
but, yeah,
there was a certain amount
995
00:46:04,203 --> 00:46:06,804
of, you know, I would say,
glee taken in the fact
996
00:46:06,964 --> 00:46:08,484
that, whoever's gonna try
and make this one's
997
00:46:08,644 --> 00:46:09,884
got their work cut out for 'em.
998
00:46:10,044 --> 00:46:12,924
They wouldn't possibly
be able to replicate it.
999
00:46:13,084 --> 00:46:13,964
And they did.
1000
00:46:14,124 --> 00:46:15,804
Somehow, some way,
1001
00:46:15,964 --> 00:46:18,203
a model kit came out,
not long afterwards.
1002
00:46:18,364 --> 00:46:19,804
They did it solely from photos
1003
00:46:19,964 --> 00:46:21,164
and they get pretty close.
1004
00:46:21,324 --> 00:46:22,524
They did several toys, yeah.
1005
00:46:22,684 --> 00:46:23,884
And some of them
were pretty good.
1006
00:46:24,044 --> 00:46:26,324
So, mission not accomplished,
1007
00:46:26,484 --> 00:46:28,564
but they did come up
with a pretty cool robot,
1008
00:46:28,724 --> 00:46:31,004
and it has a lot of interesting
features on it.
1009
00:46:32,764 --> 00:46:35,564
We had so many moving parts
on this puppet.
1010
00:46:37,564 --> 00:46:39,084
I think Phil even got a little mad.
1011
00:46:39,244 --> 00:46:40,524
At one point he said,
"What are we building
1012
00:46:40,683 --> 00:46:42,324
such a complicated puppet for?"
1013
00:46:42,484 --> 00:46:44,604
I think the original design
was more like an ape.
1014
00:46:44,764 --> 00:46:46,804
He was kind of like a gorilla, sort of.
1015
00:46:46,964 --> 00:46:49,004
And even,
I think, in some cases,
1016
00:46:49,164 --> 00:46:50,764
walked on his knuckles too.
1017
00:46:56,124 --> 00:46:57,963
This is the design drawing
1018
00:46:58,124 --> 00:46:59,924
that Craig came up with,
the final design drawing.
1019
00:47:00,084 --> 00:47:02,244
There were
quite a few different ones.
1020
00:47:02,404 --> 00:47:06,084
And this was the wooden model
that Craig put together,
1021
00:47:06,244 --> 00:47:09,083
just to make sure
that all of the designed parts
1022
00:47:09,244 --> 00:47:11,390
could move and perform.
1023
00:47:11,837 --> 00:47:13,724
I took Craig's prototype
1024
00:47:13,883 --> 00:47:17,244
and spent about two or three
months engineering it
1025
00:47:17,404 --> 00:47:19,044
to work as an animation puppet,
1026
00:47:19,204 --> 00:47:21,124
which has to be practical.
1027
00:47:21,436 --> 00:47:22,564
All these things have to work.
1028
00:47:22,724 --> 00:47:23,684
He has to be able to walk.
1029
00:47:23,844 --> 00:47:24,764
It had to do a lot
1030
00:47:24,924 --> 00:47:26,244
of different things.
1031
00:47:26,404 --> 00:47:28,564
And so, there was
like a grasping arm,
1032
00:47:28,724 --> 00:47:30,324
there is a machine gun.
1033
00:47:33,044 --> 00:47:34,484
And it's got like a big ram on it.
1034
00:47:34,644 --> 00:47:36,643
Boom!
So, it can punch people.
1035
00:47:39,324 --> 00:47:42,724
It's got retractable toes,
so it can dig in and hold.
1036
00:47:42,884 --> 00:47:45,164
And then its head,
for the third act,
1037
00:47:45,324 --> 00:47:47,444
opens up,
and there's a projection
1038
00:47:47,604 --> 00:47:50,524
of Cain's face on the inside.
1039
00:47:53,204 --> 00:47:54,364
At the end of the day, we had
1040
00:47:54,524 --> 00:47:57,044
eight Cain stop-motion puppets,
1041
00:47:57,204 --> 00:47:59,364
in addition to like a one-third scale
1042
00:47:59,524 --> 00:48:01,484
larger one for close-ups.
1043
00:48:01,644 --> 00:48:02,924
Robocop 2 was going to be
1044
00:48:03,084 --> 00:48:04,763
one of the biggest
stop-motion projects
1045
00:48:04,924 --> 00:48:07,164
that anybody had done,
so they were looking
1046
00:48:07,324 --> 00:48:09,724
to get people
with experience from all over.
1047
00:48:09,884 --> 00:48:13,484
So, I was lucky enough to be
contacted and came up here.
1048
00:48:13,644 --> 00:48:16,164
And I was one of the cameramen,
1049
00:48:16,324 --> 00:48:18,484
doing primarily lightning
and camera set-up
1050
00:48:18,644 --> 00:48:20,924
on the miniature effects on the show.
1051
00:48:21,083 --> 00:48:23,204
We had so many people
working on it
1052
00:48:23,364 --> 00:48:24,844
and trying to get the shots out
1053
00:48:25,004 --> 00:48:27,684
that we had
multiple set-ups going.
1054
00:48:28,804 --> 00:48:30,123
At some point in time,
1055
00:48:30,284 --> 00:48:33,124
we had 18 stop-motion set-ups.
1056
00:48:33,283 --> 00:48:34,923
One would be being prepped
1057
00:48:35,084 --> 00:48:36,644
and the other one being shot,
1058
00:48:36,804 --> 00:48:38,444
and we'd go back and forth like that.
1059
00:48:38,604 --> 00:48:40,804
I animated one shot
right at the very beginning,
1060
00:48:40,963 --> 00:48:42,444
but there
just wasn't enough time,
1061
00:48:42,603 --> 00:48:45,604
because there was
just too many things going on.
1062
00:48:45,763 --> 00:48:46,884
For a lot of the work,
1063
00:48:47,044 --> 00:48:48,484
the interactive work with Robocop
1064
00:48:48,643 --> 00:48:51,243
or the static stuff,
with people talking and such,
1065
00:48:51,404 --> 00:48:52,644
we built a full-scale version
1066
00:48:52,804 --> 00:48:54,204
of the model from right here up.
1067
00:48:54,364 --> 00:48:56,084
We didn't need to build
the legs, you know,
1068
00:48:56,244 --> 00:48:58,564
so we basically took it
from here and built it up.
1069
00:49:01,724 --> 00:49:04,003
The picture was
directed by Irv Kershner.
1070
00:49:04,164 --> 00:49:07,404
But we had
to start principal photography
1071
00:49:07,563 --> 00:49:09,044
with the ending of the picture,
1072
00:49:09,204 --> 00:49:11,924
the big effects sequence battle,
1073
00:49:12,084 --> 00:49:15,044
because there was a release date
coming right up.
1074
00:49:15,204 --> 00:49:18,884
But Kersh just couldn't figure out,
1075
00:49:19,044 --> 00:49:21,283
you know, how to shoot it,
or what to shoot.
1076
00:49:21,444 --> 00:49:24,443
Irvin Kershner
had known Phil Tippett
1077
00:49:24,604 --> 00:49:26,004
from Empire Strikes Back,
1078
00:49:26,164 --> 00:49:28,644
because he, of course,
did the great Walkers.
1079
00:49:28,804 --> 00:49:33,444
And I think Kersh leaned
on Phil very heavily.
1080
00:49:33,604 --> 00:49:35,644
So we had Giacomo Ghiazza
1081
00:49:35,804 --> 00:49:38,324
who storyboarded
the whole sequence with Phil,
1082
00:49:38,484 --> 00:49:40,724
and really, Phil went out
and just directed it.
1083
00:49:40,884 --> 00:49:43,044
So, the first unit
was shooting all day,
1084
00:49:43,204 --> 00:49:44,364
and Phil had to be there
1085
00:49:44,524 --> 00:49:46,084
because it was filled
with visual effects.
1086
00:49:46,243 --> 00:49:48,204
And at night,
Phil was directing
1087
00:49:48,364 --> 00:49:50,564
the second unit on many days.
1088
00:49:50,724 --> 00:49:53,844
So, he was like practically
working around the clock.
1089
00:49:55,163 --> 00:49:57,124
We have 36 shots to do
1090
00:49:57,284 --> 00:49:58,964
in the next 12 working days.
1091
00:50:13,803 --> 00:50:15,564
Everybody was so focused
on the same thing.
1092
00:50:15,723 --> 00:50:17,524
I mean, everybody in the studio
was working on the same movie.
1093
00:50:17,684 --> 00:50:18,844
Everybody was together.
1094
00:50:19,004 --> 00:50:21,164
You know, there was
a lot of passion,
1095
00:50:21,324 --> 00:50:23,284
you know, just absolute passion.
1096
00:50:35,804 --> 00:50:38,204
Robocop 2, really,
was kind of the peak
1097
00:50:38,363 --> 00:50:42,084
of stop-motion animation
for a feature film.
1098
00:50:42,244 --> 00:50:43,644
So, through all this process,
1099
00:50:43,804 --> 00:50:45,284
we were really looking forward
to the future
1100
00:50:45,444 --> 00:50:47,403
and to see where is it
gonna go from here.
1101
00:50:47,564 --> 00:50:48,684
What's next?
1102
00:50:48,844 --> 00:50:50,404
Well, none of us
really had any idea
1103
00:50:50,563 --> 00:50:51,844
what that would end up being.
1104
00:51:17,204 --> 00:51:20,164
Everything went
to computer generated images
1105
00:51:20,323 --> 00:51:21,844
practically overnight.
1106
00:51:27,964 --> 00:51:32,044
Computers were finally
just sort of taking over.
1107
00:51:37,124 --> 00:51:38,884
There was absolutely no choice
1108
00:51:39,044 --> 00:51:40,884
when the digital revolution hit
1109
00:51:41,044 --> 00:51:44,124
and kind of dissolved
the photochemical process.
1110
00:51:51,844 --> 00:51:53,684
I was more intimidated
1111
00:51:53,844 --> 00:51:57,083
by the digital technology
1112
00:51:57,244 --> 00:52:00,004
than I was fascinated by it.
1113
00:52:00,321 --> 00:52:02,045
You know,
I was compelled to use it,
1114
00:52:02,277 --> 00:52:03,884
because there was
no other choice.
1115
00:52:12,635 --> 00:52:15,353
I got a call from Kathy Kennedy
1116
00:52:15,900 --> 00:52:18,164
right after I'd finished Robocop 2.
1117
00:52:18,324 --> 00:52:21,164
She said, "We have
this Michael Crichton property
1118
00:52:21,324 --> 00:52:22,564
called Jurassic Park.
1119
00:52:22,723 --> 00:52:24,524
What Steven Spielberg
wants to do
1120
00:52:24,684 --> 00:52:28,724
is to use full-scale animatronics."
1121
00:52:28,884 --> 00:52:31,844
And I went like,
"I don't think so, Kathy.
1122
00:52:32,004 --> 00:52:33,924
I don't think it's ready."
1123
00:52:34,084 --> 00:52:35,444
She said, "Why not?"
1124
00:52:35,604 --> 00:52:39,564
And I said,
"It's just not practical."
1125
00:52:43,124 --> 00:52:44,964
Dennis Muren, Stan Winston,
1126
00:52:45,124 --> 00:52:47,924
Michael Lantieri and me,
we went down to talk to them.
1127
00:52:48,084 --> 00:52:50,404
And Kathy took me
into an office and said,
1128
00:52:50,563 --> 00:52:52,404
"Here's what we're gonna do.
We're gonna cut you four guys
1129
00:52:52,564 --> 00:52:54,364
into participation of the film."
1130
00:52:54,524 --> 00:52:56,964
And then we got
into the storyboards.
1131
00:52:57,124 --> 00:52:59,284
Who is doing what?
What's practical? What's full-size?
1132
00:52:59,444 --> 00:53:00,284
How are we gonna put it together?
1133
00:53:00,443 --> 00:53:01,684
So, everybody's area
1134
00:53:01,844 --> 00:53:03,684
of expertise were kind of framed.
1135
00:53:03,844 --> 00:53:04,764
And we would just go through that
1136
00:53:04,924 --> 00:53:06,044
over and over and over again.
1137
00:53:06,203 --> 00:53:07,444
And at that time,
1138
00:53:07,604 --> 00:53:08,844
most of the work
was gonna be done
1139
00:53:09,004 --> 00:53:11,164
as go-motion, stop-motion,
1140
00:53:11,324 --> 00:53:12,684
high-speed miniatures...
1141
00:53:12,844 --> 00:53:14,484
the visual effects side.
1142
00:53:16,324 --> 00:53:17,443
I worked on the animatics
1143
00:53:17,604 --> 00:53:19,684
for Jurassic Park with Phil,
1144
00:53:19,844 --> 00:53:22,724
Randy Dutra and Kim Blanchette,
1145
00:53:22,884 --> 00:53:24,804
who is a very fine puppet animator.
1146
00:53:24,964 --> 00:53:27,484
These were done as a guide
for the live action filming.
1147
00:53:27,644 --> 00:53:30,324
I remember seeing a number of the tests
1148
00:53:30,484 --> 00:53:32,123
they were doing,
and the dinosaurs
1149
00:53:32,284 --> 00:53:33,804
were looking just fantastic.
1150
00:53:39,324 --> 00:53:41,244
Seeing this raptor attack
1151
00:53:41,404 --> 00:53:42,724
was just great,
it was incredible.
1152
00:53:42,884 --> 00:53:45,244
And I was really excited
about seeing that.
1153
00:53:45,404 --> 00:53:47,084
So, what was ILM
gonna do on Jurassic Park?
1154
00:53:47,244 --> 00:53:48,044
We didn't know.
1155
00:53:48,204 --> 00:53:50,083
Animation was gonna be done
1156
00:53:50,244 --> 00:53:52,164
by Phil as traditional.
1157
00:53:52,324 --> 00:53:54,444
Maybe we could add blurs
to Phil's work.
1158
00:53:54,603 --> 00:53:56,404
At that point,
there wasn't any talk
1159
00:53:56,564 --> 00:53:58,084
about computer graphics.
1160
00:53:58,244 --> 00:53:59,564
At the same time,
1161
00:53:59,724 --> 00:54:02,364
Steve Williams and Mark Dippé
1162
00:54:02,524 --> 00:54:05,404
had confidence
that they could build
1163
00:54:05,564 --> 00:54:07,044
computer graphic dinosaurs.
1164
00:54:07,204 --> 00:54:10,364
So, Steve made
a tyrannosaurus skeleton,
1165
00:54:10,523 --> 00:54:13,564
and they had it like running
and showed it to Steven.
1166
00:54:13,724 --> 00:54:15,204
And he went like, "Great!"
1167
00:54:15,364 --> 00:54:17,604
And they funded ILM
to go to the next phase,
1168
00:54:17,764 --> 00:54:20,164
where they made
a whole-skinned creature
1169
00:54:20,324 --> 00:54:22,443
based off of Stan Winston's maquettes
1170
00:54:22,604 --> 00:54:23,924
and took it down to Steven.
1171
00:54:24,084 --> 00:54:26,283
And Steven, you know, said,
1172
00:54:26,444 --> 00:54:27,844
"This is how
we're gonna make the movie."
1173
00:54:36,556 --> 00:54:38,484
So, we all thought that
we would be out of a job.
1174
00:54:38,644 --> 00:54:41,324
We thought, "Well, now
what are we gonna do?"
1175
00:54:42,444 --> 00:54:43,364
Everybody over there
1176
00:54:43,524 --> 00:54:44,604
was so shocked, you know,
1177
00:54:44,764 --> 00:54:45,604
because, of course,
1178
00:54:45,763 --> 00:54:47,564
everybody loved stop-motion.
1179
00:54:51,764 --> 00:54:54,204
I thought it was
pretty much over for me
1180
00:54:54,364 --> 00:54:55,924
at that point in time.
1181
00:54:56,084 --> 00:54:59,044
You know, I remember Steven
asked me how I felt,
1182
00:54:59,203 --> 00:55:02,124
and I said, "You know,
I feel like George Méliés."
1183
00:55:02,284 --> 00:55:04,484
And that's
when he very kindly said,
1184
00:55:04,644 --> 00:55:07,324
"Oh, he made great movies!"
1185
00:55:07,484 --> 00:55:09,164
And I said, "I feel extinct."
1186
00:55:09,324 --> 00:55:10,844
And he goes like,
"I'm puttin' that in the movie."
1187
00:55:12,284 --> 00:55:13,564
It was incredibly emotional for Phil.
1188
00:55:13,724 --> 00:55:16,004
He just was, again,
was just like depleted.
1189
00:55:16,164 --> 00:55:18,604
Like, "That's it,
life's over, we're done."
1190
00:55:18,890 --> 00:55:20,764
And I'm like,
"We're bloody well not done!
1191
00:55:20,924 --> 00:55:21,924
"I got these two little kids,
1192
00:55:22,084 --> 00:55:22,964
"we've got a warehouse,
1193
00:55:23,124 --> 00:55:25,044
"we've got employees.
1194
00:55:25,204 --> 00:55:27,524
We've gotta keep it going."
1195
00:55:27,684 --> 00:55:28,884
I do remember,
actually, driving over
1196
00:55:29,044 --> 00:55:30,364
to ILM with Craig Hayes
1197
00:55:30,524 --> 00:55:32,204
and having a meeting
with Dennis Muren
1198
00:55:32,364 --> 00:55:33,684
and a couple of other people.
1199
00:55:33,844 --> 00:55:35,164
And, you know, Dennis...
1200
00:55:35,324 --> 00:55:36,764
it had been on his balcony
1201
00:55:36,923 --> 00:55:38,804
that I proposed to Phil
in the first place.
1202
00:55:38,964 --> 00:55:41,163
Phil also kind of
felt betrayed by Dennis.
1203
00:55:41,324 --> 00:55:43,363
Like, "You're doing
this stuff in CG!"
1204
00:55:43,524 --> 00:55:44,364
It was a bit complicated.
1205
00:55:44,524 --> 00:55:46,044
Ultimately, of course,
1206
00:55:46,204 --> 00:55:48,964
Dennis really valued Phil
as an artist.
1207
00:55:49,123 --> 00:55:50,964
He maybe felt betrayed,
but he wasn't
1208
00:55:51,124 --> 00:55:52,644
and it was the future.
1209
00:55:52,804 --> 00:55:54,684
And you know, the thing is,
it was gonna happen anyway.
1210
00:55:54,844 --> 00:55:56,751
But it was really hard on him,
1211
00:55:56,934 --> 00:55:58,564
hard on me, at the time...
1212
00:55:59,983 --> 00:56:01,204
But you just had to go through it,
1213
00:56:01,364 --> 00:56:04,763
because it was an opportunity.
1214
00:56:04,924 --> 00:56:06,724
And so, Craig and Jules and Dennis
1215
00:56:06,884 --> 00:56:09,604
cooked up this idea
for the "Dinosaur Input Device"
1216
00:56:09,764 --> 00:56:11,084
or "Direct Input Device"
1217
00:56:11,244 --> 00:56:12,884
that would allow
stop-motion animators
1218
00:56:13,044 --> 00:56:15,644
of my studio,
Randy Dutra and Tom St. Amand,
1219
00:56:15,804 --> 00:56:18,444
to go in and physically
manipulate these things.
1220
00:56:18,603 --> 00:56:20,484
Essentially,
it's a motion capture device
1221
00:56:20,644 --> 00:56:24,084
with little encoders
at all the various places,
1222
00:56:24,244 --> 00:56:25,644
where there are rotations.
1223
00:56:25,804 --> 00:56:28,203
And that feeds
through an umbilicus
1224
00:56:28,364 --> 00:56:29,644
into the computer,
1225
00:56:29,804 --> 00:56:31,324
and there's a wireframe
1226
00:56:31,484 --> 00:56:32,724
of the dinosaur in the computer.
1227
00:56:32,884 --> 00:56:33,804
So, when you move the head,
1228
00:56:33,963 --> 00:56:35,524
the head moves in the computer.
1229
00:56:40,844 --> 00:56:42,684
We could
still be puppet animators.
1230
00:56:42,844 --> 00:56:46,084
We could still do what
our training taught us to do,
1231
00:56:46,244 --> 00:56:47,963
which is to take the model
1232
00:56:48,124 --> 00:56:49,644
and move it a frame at the time,
1233
00:56:49,804 --> 00:56:51,324
same as we did in the old days.
1234
00:56:51,484 --> 00:56:52,844
We didn't have
to worry about cameras,
1235
00:56:53,004 --> 00:56:54,403
it was like a virtual camera.
1236
00:56:54,564 --> 00:56:56,404
In that sense,
it was kind of liberating.
1237
00:56:57,804 --> 00:56:58,964
So, the stop-motion animators
1238
00:56:59,124 --> 00:57:01,244
could still be
a part of this process.
1239
00:57:01,403 --> 00:57:04,324
They bring all of their talent
to the show
1240
00:57:04,484 --> 00:57:05,724
and not be sort of ostracized
1241
00:57:05,884 --> 00:57:07,324
because they weren't
computer animators.
1242
00:57:07,484 --> 00:57:09,564
Those guys
knew how animals move
1243
00:57:09,724 --> 00:57:10,964
and how they should perform.
1244
00:57:11,124 --> 00:57:13,044
We had CG artists
1245
00:57:13,204 --> 00:57:14,764
that were good
at computer graphics,
1246
00:57:14,924 --> 00:57:16,884
but they didn't know
about animals, really.
1247
00:57:17,044 --> 00:57:19,083
And Phil, you know,
knew all about animals.
1248
00:57:19,244 --> 00:57:21,283
And Tom St. Amand,
and Randy Dutra--
1249
00:57:21,444 --> 00:57:23,490
these guys knew
all about the behavior.
1250
00:57:23,705 --> 00:57:25,324
It would not have been
the same movie at all
1251
00:57:25,484 --> 00:57:27,484
if ILM on its own
had done the film.
1252
00:57:31,084 --> 00:57:33,360
I thought it was a fantastic idea
1253
00:57:33,758 --> 00:57:35,680
to try to keep Phil involved
1254
00:57:35,863 --> 00:57:38,084
because it's not
just a technical process.
1255
00:57:38,382 --> 00:57:40,284
No matter if it's a practical dinosaur,
1256
00:57:40,444 --> 00:57:43,004
or a digital dinosaur,
or a stop-motion dinosaur,
1257
00:57:43,340 --> 00:57:46,705
you need an aesthetic brain
like Phil Tippett's
1258
00:57:47,036 --> 00:57:48,964
in the animation and the movement,
1259
00:57:49,123 --> 00:57:50,860
because that's where the character is.
1260
00:57:51,043 --> 00:57:54,109
And that's what Phil has
established over the years
1261
00:57:54,291 --> 00:57:57,083
is his grasp on frame by frame
1262
00:57:57,244 --> 00:57:59,084
expression of character.
1263
00:58:01,484 --> 00:58:03,324
And of course,
Jurassic won Oscars.
1264
00:58:03,484 --> 00:58:04,980
It was Phil's second award.
1265
00:58:05,411 --> 00:58:09,123
So, you know, that was...
had a happy ending, again.
1266
00:58:10,250 --> 00:58:11,483
That kind of pulled us
1267
00:58:11,644 --> 00:58:13,897
into the next era
of Tippett Studio.
1268
00:58:14,079 --> 00:58:17,777
Without that, we would've
been stuck doing clay and...
1269
00:58:17,943 --> 00:58:19,601
I don't know, he probably
wouldn't have done anything,
1270
00:58:19,915 --> 00:58:23,429
but that actually paved
the way for the next step.
1271
00:58:23,694 --> 00:58:25,683
Ultimately,
it was Starship Troopers.
1272
00:58:25,866 --> 00:58:27,440
That was the step
1273
00:58:27,639 --> 00:58:29,728
into a completely digital studio.
1274
00:58:33,164 --> 00:58:35,711
The reason
I made Starship Troopers
1275
00:58:36,059 --> 00:58:37,644
is I wanted to work with Phil Tippett.
1276
00:58:37,932 --> 00:58:40,564
I wanted to do a giant bug movie
with Phil Tippett.
1277
00:58:40,724 --> 00:58:43,324
I thought, "I wonder
if the book 'Starship Troopers'
1278
00:58:43,484 --> 00:58:45,204
is optioned or available."
1279
00:58:45,364 --> 00:58:46,723
I mean, nobody's done that.
1280
00:58:46,884 --> 00:58:48,557
I mean,
that's kind of the classic,
1281
00:58:48,938 --> 00:58:51,004
giant bug
in outer space movie.
1282
00:58:51,491 --> 00:58:55,204
So, we found out that
the rights were available.
1283
00:58:55,363 --> 00:58:56,764
Very early on,
Paul Verhoeven
1284
00:58:56,924 --> 00:58:58,684
went off to do Showgirls.
1285
00:58:58,844 --> 00:59:00,364
We had met
and worked with Craig Hayes,
1286
00:59:00,524 --> 00:59:03,244
and had pretty much designed
all of the bugs
1287
00:59:03,404 --> 00:59:05,484
two years before going in.
1288
00:59:05,643 --> 00:59:07,163
So, we knew
what the bugs were gonna be.
1289
00:59:07,324 --> 00:59:08,964
And one of
the conceptual things
1290
00:59:09,124 --> 00:59:10,684
going into it was,
well, it's a war movie,
1291
00:59:10,844 --> 00:59:12,724
and so each
of these bug characters
1292
00:59:12,884 --> 00:59:14,444
are gonna represent
a different aspect
1293
00:59:14,604 --> 00:59:17,204
of the movie genre,
war stuff, you know,
1294
00:59:17,364 --> 00:59:20,404
things like the German Stuttgart
flying bugs;
1295
00:59:20,564 --> 00:59:22,364
there's the warrior bugs
are the infantry;
1296
00:59:22,523 --> 00:59:25,364
there's a tanker bug was
like a flame-throwing tank.
1297
00:59:25,524 --> 00:59:26,724
It was just a great experience
1298
00:59:26,884 --> 00:59:27,924
because we were able to be there
1299
00:59:28,084 --> 00:59:29,724
from the very beginning, right.
1300
00:59:29,884 --> 00:59:31,724
It's always the best when you're
1301
00:59:31,884 --> 00:59:33,564
part of the filmmaking process
from the start.
1302
00:59:33,724 --> 00:59:35,124
One of the things that was
great about Paul Verhoeven
1303
00:59:35,284 --> 00:59:37,844
is that he is very visually orientated
1304
00:59:38,004 --> 00:59:39,284
and really understands this stuff.
1305
00:59:39,444 --> 00:59:42,644
So, it was a smooth process
of iterations.
1306
00:59:42,804 --> 00:59:44,364
I did storyboards,
Phil did storyboards,
1307
00:59:44,524 --> 00:59:45,963
we exchanged storyboards.
1308
00:59:46,124 --> 00:59:47,964
We were very deep into it.
1309
00:59:48,124 --> 00:59:50,484
I gave them to a really...
storyboard artist
1310
00:59:50,644 --> 00:59:54,004
to make them really powerful
and strong, you know,
1311
00:59:54,164 --> 00:59:56,523
make them more
three-dimensional, in fact.
1312
01:00:00,404 --> 01:00:01,724
The designs were great,
1313
01:00:01,883 --> 01:00:03,684
and so what we did was,
we executed
1314
01:00:03,844 --> 01:00:07,164
Phil's vision of what
these bugs should look like
1315
01:00:07,324 --> 01:00:09,204
and how they should move.
1316
01:00:09,364 --> 01:00:13,684
And our job was to take them
from basically illustrations
1317
01:00:13,844 --> 01:00:15,884
and execute 'em
and bring 'em into reality.
1318
01:00:16,044 --> 01:00:17,404
And that meant that Phil
1319
01:00:17,564 --> 01:00:21,364
was really our art director
on the show.
1320
01:00:21,524 --> 01:00:22,884
Go ahead and touch it.
1321
01:00:23,044 --> 01:00:24,564
- You want to retract it?
- Yeah.
1322
01:00:24,724 --> 01:00:26,204
Get ready to retract, guys!
1323
01:00:26,364 --> 01:00:28,364
And... retract!
1324
01:00:28,524 --> 01:00:30,644
Yeah, Okay.
All right, great.
1325
01:00:34,923 --> 01:00:37,004
Phil was all the insects in it.
1326
01:00:37,164 --> 01:00:38,844
And without Phil,
1327
01:00:39,004 --> 01:00:41,204
there would have not been
a movie, you know.
1328
01:00:41,364 --> 01:00:45,884
Starship Troopers
was kind of not manageable.
1329
01:00:46,043 --> 01:00:47,804
I must have hired
like a hundred people,
1330
01:00:47,963 --> 01:00:49,204
whoever we could find who had
1331
01:00:49,364 --> 01:00:52,084
some sort of aptitude
and enthusiasm.
1332
01:00:52,244 --> 01:00:54,484
Phil was gone,
shooting in the Badlands
1333
01:00:54,644 --> 01:00:57,084
for, gosh,
it seemed like four months,
1334
01:00:57,244 --> 01:00:58,804
just gone the entire time.
1335
01:00:58,964 --> 01:01:01,564
Phil was always there, of course--
he was all animals
1336
01:01:01,724 --> 01:01:04,044
that had to be integrated later in it.
1337
01:01:04,204 --> 01:01:06,004
Vic Armstrong,
the second unit director,
1338
01:01:06,164 --> 01:01:08,564
did the ones that
I would not have time to do.
1339
01:01:08,724 --> 01:01:10,364
And then we split,
and he went one way
1340
01:01:10,524 --> 01:01:11,644
and I went the other way.
1341
01:01:11,804 --> 01:01:13,284
And then we started to shoot.
1342
01:01:13,444 --> 01:01:15,764
And Phil was jumping from one set
1343
01:01:15,924 --> 01:01:16,924
to the other set, you know.
1344
01:01:17,084 --> 01:01:18,444
I had the feeling there were
1345
01:01:18,604 --> 01:01:20,484
three directors in Starship Troopers.
1346
01:01:20,644 --> 01:01:22,724
There was me,
there was Vic Armstrong,
1347
01:01:22,884 --> 01:01:25,244
and there was Phil Tippett.
1348
01:01:25,592 --> 01:01:27,924
These three directors
have made that movie.
1349
01:01:28,084 --> 01:01:29,844
Not one!
1350
01:01:30,531 --> 01:01:32,437
Okay, and action!
1351
01:01:32,603 --> 01:01:34,488
We were shooting
out in the desert
1352
01:01:34,670 --> 01:01:37,204
and they were really long days,
and I think six-day weeks,
1353
01:01:37,571 --> 01:01:39,427
and it was
very physically grueling
1354
01:01:39,626 --> 01:01:40,964
and we... all exhausted.
1355
01:01:46,996 --> 01:01:47,883
And then when Phil came back,
1356
01:01:48,044 --> 01:01:49,484
I remember he came back,
1357
01:01:49,644 --> 01:01:50,924
maybe he broke the door,
1358
01:01:51,084 --> 01:01:52,364
and I just thought,
"Oh, my God!
1359
01:01:52,524 --> 01:01:53,564
What's happened?"
1360
01:01:53,724 --> 01:01:56,705
He just looked like a wild man,
1361
01:01:56,970 --> 01:02:00,600
like he'd been out in the desert
for a long time.
1362
01:02:00,849 --> 01:02:03,219
And then there we were
back in Berkeley,
1363
01:02:03,484 --> 01:02:05,556
trying to figure out
how on earth
1364
01:02:05,739 --> 01:02:07,284
are we gonna do these shots!
1365
01:02:07,444 --> 01:02:09,070
I was like, we had no idea.
1366
01:02:17,392 --> 01:02:18,484
I arrived at Tippett Studio
1367
01:02:18,644 --> 01:02:20,724
when we started working
on Starship Troopers.
1368
01:02:24,374 --> 01:02:26,294
Computers were newish
1369
01:02:26,454 --> 01:02:27,894
to the industry at that point,
1370
01:02:28,054 --> 01:02:29,414
and the Digital Input Device
1371
01:02:29,574 --> 01:02:31,374
was a fantastic way for me
1372
01:02:31,534 --> 01:02:32,454
and some of the other guys
1373
01:02:32,614 --> 01:02:34,293
to get into the digital world,
1374
01:02:34,454 --> 01:02:36,294
because we had never--
at least myself--
1375
01:02:36,454 --> 01:02:37,774
I had never even turned on
a computer
1376
01:02:37,934 --> 01:02:39,294
at that point to use for anything.
1377
01:02:39,454 --> 01:02:41,054
We always prefer
to take someone
1378
01:02:41,214 --> 01:02:42,894
from their practical film experience
1379
01:02:43,054 --> 01:02:46,014
and we could teach them
how to operate a computer.
1380
01:02:46,174 --> 01:02:47,454
The hardest thing to do
was to take someone
1381
01:02:47,614 --> 01:02:50,054
who could operate a computer
and teach them how to be an artist.
1382
01:02:53,454 --> 01:02:56,814
Craig Hayes pretty much designed
and supervised,
1383
01:02:56,974 --> 01:02:58,493
you know,
putting all the stuff together.
1384
01:02:58,654 --> 01:03:01,174
At the end of the show,
I offered to give
1385
01:03:01,334 --> 01:03:05,174
my visual effects supervisor
credit to Craig.
1386
01:03:05,510 --> 01:03:08,334
He really was
that visual effects supervisor.
1387
01:03:08,494 --> 01:03:09,854
But the studio wouldn't have it.
1388
01:03:11,214 --> 01:03:13,414
So, they wanted my name
to be up there.
1389
01:03:13,573 --> 01:03:14,454
I had signed a contract,
1390
01:03:14,614 --> 01:03:16,014
so it was like, ehh...
1391
01:03:26,174 --> 01:03:28,894
You know, the results
were just fantastic.
1392
01:03:29,054 --> 01:03:30,214
I think, to this day,
1393
01:03:30,374 --> 01:03:32,614
the movie holds up
really, really well,
1394
01:03:32,773 --> 01:03:34,854
in terms of the blend of the CGI
1395
01:03:35,014 --> 01:03:36,294
and the practical effects.
1396
01:03:36,454 --> 01:03:38,214
I have the feeling
that everybody
1397
01:03:38,374 --> 01:03:40,974
was so taken by the movie
1398
01:03:41,314 --> 01:03:43,934
and had so much the feeling
that they were expressing
1399
01:03:44,094 --> 01:03:46,574
and doing something that
they had never done, you know.
1400
01:03:49,214 --> 01:03:52,814
We were all working on
something unique.
1401
01:03:52,974 --> 01:03:56,054
And then it was compounded
with the Academy Awards
1402
01:03:56,214 --> 01:03:57,773
because it was nominated,
of course,
1403
01:03:58,022 --> 01:04:00,467
because, I mean,
the work was phenomenal.
1404
01:04:01,180 --> 01:04:02,654
But it was the same year as Titanic.
1405
01:04:04,346 --> 01:04:07,254
So it was like, there's no way!
1406
01:04:11,574 --> 01:04:13,574
The radioactive fallout
1407
01:04:13,734 --> 01:04:15,973
from an Oscar has meaning
1408
01:04:16,134 --> 01:04:18,054
in that it puts you
on other people's radar.
1409
01:04:19,294 --> 01:04:21,934
And so, you get more publicity,
1410
01:04:22,094 --> 01:04:25,348
you get more notice, meetings,
you get more work.
1411
01:04:25,514 --> 01:04:27,271
So, on that level, that's good.
1412
01:04:27,436 --> 01:04:30,005
But in terms of substantiating myself,
1413
01:04:30,188 --> 01:04:32,717
that is "no meaningful."
1414
01:04:34,563 --> 01:04:37,214
I don't think of myself as an artist.
1415
01:04:38,814 --> 01:04:43,413
I think of myself as a filmmaker,
or a maker of things.
1416
01:04:43,574 --> 01:04:45,574
I think these things actually
kind of make themselves.
1417
01:04:45,733 --> 01:04:47,494
You know,
I just kind of stand back.
1418
01:04:47,653 --> 01:04:50,574
I found the older I get,
the more I stand back
1419
01:04:50,734 --> 01:04:52,654
and really try
1420
01:04:52,814 --> 01:04:55,974
not to influence things by intention,
1421
01:04:56,134 --> 01:04:58,574
and to just kind of let things happen.
1422
01:05:09,014 --> 01:05:11,253
Effectively, I kind of got
kicked upstairs.
1423
01:05:11,414 --> 01:05:12,534
For my day job,
1424
01:05:12,694 --> 01:05:15,974
I am a visual effects supervisor
1425
01:05:16,134 --> 01:05:17,814
or director at Tippett Studio.
1426
01:05:17,973 --> 01:05:19,494
I will be involved
with the production,
1427
01:05:19,654 --> 01:05:22,054
go out on location
and shoot everything,
1428
01:05:22,213 --> 01:05:23,974
make sure
it's all is shot properly,
1429
01:05:24,133 --> 01:05:26,974
and then bring it back,
and the guys will work on it.
1430
01:05:27,134 --> 01:05:29,694
So, I will show up to dailies
1431
01:05:29,854 --> 01:05:31,494
and see how things are going.
1432
01:05:35,614 --> 01:05:37,214
I've got a team of people
1433
01:05:37,374 --> 01:05:39,254
that I've worked with
for many, many years,
1434
01:05:39,414 --> 01:05:41,094
that I have
a great deal of confidence in.
1435
01:05:41,254 --> 01:05:42,694
We all share the same language,
1436
01:05:42,854 --> 01:05:43,974
we know what we're talking about.
1437
01:05:54,104 --> 01:05:57,254
Phil didn't really care
about, you know, the glory.
1438
01:05:57,414 --> 01:05:59,214
I think Phil does it
1439
01:05:59,374 --> 01:06:01,294
for the love
of what he's doing.
1440
01:06:01,454 --> 01:06:04,894
I wish that Phil had gone on
to direct other pictures.
1441
01:06:05,054 --> 01:06:09,294
One of my favorite Phil Tippett
films is Mad God.
1442
01:06:16,784 --> 01:06:19,014
I'd shot my Mad God project
1443
01:06:19,174 --> 01:06:22,774
maybe 30 years earlier
and abandoned the project.
1444
01:06:22,934 --> 01:06:25,134
And some of the guys
at the studio
1445
01:06:25,294 --> 01:06:27,934
were watching the archives
and they got very interested
1446
01:06:28,094 --> 01:06:30,894
in rebooting the project,
and offered to volunteer.
1447
01:06:31,054 --> 01:06:32,934
They did a couple of shots
and came back,
1448
01:06:33,094 --> 01:06:35,494
and we've kind of
got on a roll,
1449
01:06:35,654 --> 01:06:38,494
and then we accumulated
more volunteers over time
1450
01:06:38,654 --> 01:06:41,094
and then it just kind of grew itself.
1451
01:06:47,134 --> 01:06:50,374
Mad God is a very old school,
1452
01:06:50,534 --> 01:06:52,774
hands-on approach to making stuff.
1453
01:06:52,933 --> 01:06:56,093
It's kind of my recapitulation
1454
01:06:56,254 --> 01:06:59,653
of all of the things that influenced me.
1455
01:07:01,054 --> 01:07:05,734
Mad God is a very unique
1456
01:07:05,893 --> 01:07:09,614
kind of experiment, I think.
1457
01:07:09,774 --> 01:07:12,334
It's a sort of a non-narrative narrative.
1458
01:07:12,494 --> 01:07:14,574
Heh. I mean, it is narrative,
1459
01:07:14,734 --> 01:07:17,494
but it has no structure.
1460
01:07:17,654 --> 01:07:20,374
I mean, it's not obvious
where it's going.
1461
01:07:20,735 --> 01:07:23,854
It's just like nothing else
I've seen.
1462
01:07:34,974 --> 01:07:36,014
Mad God was a reflection
1463
01:07:36,173 --> 01:07:38,134
of the absurdity of the world
1464
01:07:38,294 --> 01:07:39,214
that I live in
1465
01:07:39,374 --> 01:07:41,068
and the craziness of it.
1466
01:07:41,416 --> 01:07:42,214
I'm in this world,
there's nothing
1467
01:07:42,374 --> 01:07:44,214
I can do about it, you know.
1468
01:07:44,374 --> 01:07:48,894
But I got to find
some kind of expression
1469
01:07:49,053 --> 01:07:52,294
to make sense out of stuff
1470
01:07:52,454 --> 01:07:53,654
that doesn't make sense to me.
1471
01:07:58,234 --> 01:08:01,354
It's this weird organic sort of process,
1472
01:08:01,514 --> 01:08:03,234
but it's an obsessive thing.
1473
01:08:06,369 --> 01:08:07,594
I'll keep a journal.
1474
01:08:07,754 --> 01:08:09,514
In the journal, there'll be ideas
1475
01:08:09,674 --> 01:08:11,714
for Mad God as they come up.
1476
01:08:11,874 --> 01:08:14,274
But then, every night
before I go to sleep,
1477
01:08:14,434 --> 01:08:16,674
I write a page or two
1478
01:08:16,834 --> 01:08:19,074
of the first thing
that comes into my mind.
1479
01:08:19,234 --> 01:08:21,314
That's interesting
to look at it the next day,
1480
01:08:21,474 --> 01:08:23,474
and see how
the consciousness is eroding
1481
01:08:23,634 --> 01:08:25,233
and what
the thought process is.
1482
01:08:25,394 --> 01:08:26,674
And I think
that also helps feed
1483
01:08:26,834 --> 01:08:29,073
the dream world as well...
1484
01:08:29,234 --> 01:08:31,953
It seems like... I do that,
I'll have more dreams.
1485
01:08:36,914 --> 01:08:38,434
This is a cottage
in the back of my house
1486
01:08:38,594 --> 01:08:41,354
that I use
to kind of do experiments
1487
01:08:41,514 --> 01:08:45,714
and to work on other projects
that are advancing,
1488
01:08:45,874 --> 01:08:47,594
whatever it is
I'm going to do next.
1489
01:08:47,754 --> 01:08:51,034
So, this is
like a library of books
1490
01:08:51,194 --> 01:08:52,513
that I've collected
over the years
1491
01:08:52,674 --> 01:08:54,554
that I've used as reference,
1492
01:08:54,713 --> 01:08:57,754
and a bunch of artifacts
1493
01:08:57,914 --> 01:09:00,714
that I just randomly place
on shelves.
1494
01:09:01,874 --> 01:09:03,353
It's not so much inspiration,
1495
01:09:03,514 --> 01:09:05,914
it's more like having
an ambience,
1496
01:09:06,074 --> 01:09:09,234
of like,
I think things talk to you,
1497
01:09:09,592 --> 01:09:10,994
even when you're not listening.
1498
01:09:11,154 --> 01:09:14,034
That's kind of the world
that I live in.
1499
01:09:17,418 --> 01:09:19,605
Phil...he is Mad God.
1500
01:09:20,425 --> 01:09:22,394
That's who he is.
1501
01:09:32,808 --> 01:09:36,056
What's great
about Phil and Tippett Studios
1502
01:09:36,305 --> 01:09:39,754
is that Phil is giving
1503
01:09:40,483 --> 01:09:43,434
whoever is interested
in stop-motion
1504
01:09:43,594 --> 01:09:46,994
a chance to experience it
and to perform it.
1505
01:09:56,915 --> 01:09:57,994
I think it's very important
1506
01:09:58,154 --> 01:09:59,194
we have a shop
1507
01:09:59,354 --> 01:10:01,114
that actually still functions
1508
01:10:01,274 --> 01:10:03,114
and that we are
still shooting stop-motion,
1509
01:10:03,274 --> 01:10:05,073
and that we're still working
on puppets,
1510
01:10:05,234 --> 01:10:08,074
and using milling machines
and lathes.
1511
01:10:08,481 --> 01:10:11,034
J.J. Abrams wanted to have
a stop-motion sequence
1512
01:10:11,194 --> 01:10:13,394
in Star Wars Episode VII.
1513
01:10:13,554 --> 01:10:17,553
Our team had to go and find
the actual puppets again,
1514
01:10:17,714 --> 01:10:18,874
which was not an easy task,
1515
01:10:19,034 --> 01:10:21,393
and then scan them,
1516
01:10:21,554 --> 01:10:23,554
recreate them in the physical world,
1517
01:10:23,713 --> 01:10:25,314
mold them, and then make
some new puppets
1518
01:10:25,474 --> 01:10:26,554
for us to work with.
1519
01:10:26,714 --> 01:10:30,074
Phil and Dennis Muren
and Jon Berg
1520
01:10:30,234 --> 01:10:32,034
all stopped by to remember
1521
01:10:32,194 --> 01:10:34,074
how everything was put together
1522
01:10:34,234 --> 01:10:35,513
and how it was executed.
1523
01:10:35,674 --> 01:10:37,634
Hey, how you doin'?
1524
01:10:37,794 --> 01:10:38,914
Hey.
1525
01:10:39,073 --> 01:10:41,553
So, here's the cuts.
1526
01:10:41,714 --> 01:10:43,154
- Wow!
- In and out.
1527
01:10:43,314 --> 01:10:45,154
-There's just one cut you're doing?
-Two.
1528
01:10:45,314 --> 01:10:48,554
It's very odd and very "déjà vu"
1529
01:10:48,714 --> 01:10:51,754
to see something like this
after so many years.
1530
01:10:51,914 --> 01:10:53,114
Stand up...
1531
01:10:53,274 --> 01:10:54,713
Now you're playing chess.
1532
01:10:56,714 --> 01:10:58,194
It's so nice
to be able to touch.
1533
01:10:58,354 --> 01:11:00,274
Not only the puppets,
but it's the whole set-up.
1534
01:11:00,434 --> 01:11:02,034
Just move the camera,
move the lights,
1535
01:11:02,194 --> 01:11:04,274
walk around, look at it,
change this, change this...
1536
01:11:04,434 --> 01:11:06,994
I think there's a charm
to the old way of doing it,
1537
01:11:07,154 --> 01:11:08,794
because you can relate to it,
you feel it,
1538
01:11:08,954 --> 01:11:11,234
you can look at it
and there's like an amazement
1539
01:11:11,394 --> 01:11:12,912
of something is moving
by itself.
1540
01:11:13,376 --> 01:11:14,994
And that's still not been able
1541
01:11:15,153 --> 01:11:16,954
to be duplicated in CGI.
1542
01:11:18,415 --> 01:11:19,634
The animators were Chuck Duke
1543
01:11:19,794 --> 01:11:21,034
and Tom Gibbons.
1544
01:11:21,194 --> 01:11:23,434
Gibby animated
the main characters
1545
01:11:23,594 --> 01:11:25,474
and Chuck did
all the background characters.
1546
01:11:25,634 --> 01:11:26,754
Chuck Duke, Jon Berg.
1547
01:11:26,914 --> 01:11:27,954
- Jon, hi!
- How you doing?
1548
01:11:28,114 --> 01:11:29,314
So, these guys are gonna
1549
01:11:29,474 --> 01:11:30,594
do the deed.
1550
01:11:30,754 --> 01:11:32,234
- Oh!
- They're gonna animate it.
1551
01:11:32,394 --> 01:11:34,234
That was an amazing circle
1552
01:11:34,394 --> 01:11:35,713
to have happened in my life
1553
01:11:35,874 --> 01:11:37,374
because that sequence
1554
01:11:37,556 --> 01:11:39,274
in the first Star Wars
1555
01:11:39,434 --> 01:11:41,519
was a huge thing for me
as a kid.
1556
01:11:41,685 --> 01:11:43,794
Those were puppets
that I've always wanted to see.
1557
01:11:45,834 --> 01:11:47,314
I never thought that would happen.
1558
01:11:54,773 --> 01:11:57,554
I look at animators as actors.
1559
01:11:57,856 --> 01:12:02,554
And so, I respect their skill
and their judgment.
1560
01:12:02,714 --> 01:12:03,954
You know, it's like,
"Well, you're gonna do
1561
01:12:04,113 --> 01:12:07,001
"the same thing
that we did 40 years ago.
1562
01:12:07,349 --> 01:12:10,674
So, heh, good luck,
I'll see you in the morning!"
1563
01:12:10,930 --> 01:12:12,074
There's just not
a whole lot of time.
1564
01:12:12,234 --> 01:12:14,314
Maybe he gets up right away,
1565
01:12:14,474 --> 01:12:16,033
and this guy
is coming in for him,
1566
01:12:16,194 --> 01:12:17,994
and he raises up his hammer
and clocks him
1567
01:12:18,154 --> 01:12:19,674
and this guy goes down.
1568
01:12:19,834 --> 01:12:22,114
He's definitely the voice
in the back of your mind
1569
01:12:22,274 --> 01:12:23,394
when you're animating.
1570
01:12:23,736 --> 01:12:24,673
Go!
1571
01:12:27,034 --> 01:12:29,114
We were asked again
1572
01:12:29,274 --> 01:12:32,314
for the Han Solo Star Wars
1573
01:12:32,744 --> 01:12:34,335
to bring back the chess set.
1574
01:12:34,634 --> 01:12:37,234
We tried to get Chuck back,
but he was unavailable,
1575
01:12:37,584 --> 01:12:40,914
so one of the guys that
was a volunteer on Mad God,
1576
01:12:41,074 --> 01:12:42,994
that we've subsequently hired,
David Lauer,
1577
01:12:43,154 --> 01:12:46,474
has become a very, very good
stop-motion animator.
1578
01:12:46,634 --> 01:12:48,394
Gibby animated the main characters
1579
01:12:48,554 --> 01:12:50,394
and David animated
all the background guys.
1580
01:12:50,554 --> 01:12:54,914
We were actually redoing
the New Hope animations,
1581
01:12:55,074 --> 01:12:57,394
but just with a more oiled machine.
1582
01:12:57,554 --> 01:12:59,074
And so, we were trying to get in
1583
01:12:59,233 --> 01:13:02,154
as many overlaps in animation,
1584
01:13:02,314 --> 01:13:05,474
little tendrils and claws, as we could.
1585
01:13:05,634 --> 01:13:07,674
It's technically far superior
1586
01:13:07,834 --> 01:13:08,954
to what Jon Berg and I did.
1587
01:13:09,113 --> 01:13:10,874
But they took a lot more time,
1588
01:13:11,033 --> 01:13:12,273
a put lot more effort into it.
1589
01:13:12,434 --> 01:13:14,354
We just did this thing
like really quickly.
1590
01:13:20,549 --> 01:13:21,742
The stage has
1591
01:13:21,908 --> 01:13:24,193
all of these incredible armatures
1592
01:13:24,354 --> 01:13:26,514
and artifacts
from all these past projects.
1593
01:13:26,880 --> 01:13:28,593
And some of those were Cain,
1594
01:13:28,754 --> 01:13:30,714
some of those were
the Digital Input Devices
1595
01:13:30,874 --> 01:13:33,354
from Jurassic Park
and Starship Troopers,
1596
01:13:33,641 --> 01:13:35,993
and I've just had
this hankering,
1597
01:13:36,154 --> 01:13:38,154
this desire to animate
those creatures.
1598
01:13:38,314 --> 01:13:39,754
I just kind of tapped him
on the shoulder
1599
01:13:39,914 --> 01:13:41,354
and asked if it would be okay
1600
01:13:41,514 --> 01:13:42,834
if I could animate one of those things.
1601
01:13:42,993 --> 01:13:44,794
He said,
"Oh, sure, anytime, no problem."
1602
01:13:46,592 --> 01:13:47,714
A lot of this stuff
1603
01:13:47,874 --> 01:13:49,114
that was done in the past
1604
01:13:49,274 --> 01:13:50,834
for theatrical feature films
1605
01:13:50,994 --> 01:13:52,434
has become like iconic
1606
01:13:52,593 --> 01:13:55,354
and historical
and all that stuff, so it'll--
1607
01:13:55,514 --> 01:13:56,433
It's in the books.
1608
01:13:56,594 --> 01:13:57,674
You know, what's done is done
1609
01:13:57,834 --> 01:13:59,074
and it's got a life of its own,
1610
01:13:59,234 --> 01:14:01,633
and it's like your kids,
you know...
1611
01:14:01,794 --> 01:14:03,474
It's like, "There they go."
1612
01:14:56,024 --> 01:14:57,274
I don't look back.
1613
01:14:57,434 --> 01:14:59,554
I never think about the past.
1614
01:15:00,102 --> 01:15:03,353
So, um, that's all done
1615
01:15:03,514 --> 01:15:06,034
and that was like a different
person that did that stuff,
1616
01:15:06,194 --> 01:15:07,514
so I just look forward.
1617
01:15:10,588 --> 01:15:13,505
I have a number of projects
after Mad God
1618
01:15:13,704 --> 01:15:16,694
that I want to do,
that are bubbling away.
1619
01:15:16,926 --> 01:15:19,194
So, it's always
one thing after the next.
1620
01:15:21,674 --> 01:15:23,874
Phil Tippett
can do anything, you know?
1621
01:15:24,034 --> 01:15:27,794
When you want
to really achieve an artistic,
1622
01:15:27,954 --> 01:15:30,994
subtle, nuanced idea
1623
01:15:31,154 --> 01:15:33,754
about movement of an animal,
he's the master,
1624
01:15:33,914 --> 01:15:34,994
there's nobody better than him.
1625
01:15:35,154 --> 01:15:36,434
I've never seen better,
you know?
1626
01:15:39,714 --> 01:15:42,286
You know,
I've only heard Paul Verhoeven
1627
01:15:42,534 --> 01:15:44,794
call one person a genius
1628
01:15:45,186 --> 01:15:46,434
and that was Phil Tippett.
1629
01:15:46,844 --> 01:15:48,932
And I was somewhat taken back,
1630
01:15:49,114 --> 01:15:50,954
because, you know, I just think
Phil Tippett, I mean,
1631
01:15:51,114 --> 01:15:53,519
he's an incredibly talented guy.
1632
01:15:53,834 --> 01:15:55,994
But a genius? Wow.
1633
01:15:56,271 --> 01:15:57,874
And you know something,
Paul was right.
1634
01:15:58,276 --> 01:15:59,514
Phil Tippett is a genius.
1635
01:15:59,674 --> 01:16:04,513
He is an eccentric,
unique visionary.
1636
01:16:04,674 --> 01:16:07,794
He's not a corporate kind
of personality
1637
01:16:07,953 --> 01:16:10,914
who weaves smoothly
and effortlessly
1638
01:16:11,074 --> 01:16:12,753
through the political structures
of things,
1639
01:16:13,003 --> 01:16:14,048
he is the guy who says,
1640
01:16:14,213 --> 01:16:15,554
"This is how it ought to be,
1641
01:16:15,714 --> 01:16:17,394
and I'm not afraid to express it."
1642
01:16:19,314 --> 01:16:20,314
He's a brilliant guy
1643
01:16:20,474 --> 01:16:21,354
and is still working,
1644
01:16:21,514 --> 01:16:22,714
and still adapting.
1645
01:16:22,874 --> 01:16:24,354
He realized,
along with a lot of others,
1646
01:16:24,514 --> 01:16:26,474
that stop-motion
was gonna have its limits,
1647
01:16:26,634 --> 01:16:28,314
and when go-motion came in,
1648
01:16:28,474 --> 01:16:30,993
and, you know, the use
of CGI on Jurassic Park,
1649
01:16:31,154 --> 01:16:33,593
all that kind of thing, I mean,
he rolled with the punches
1650
01:16:33,754 --> 01:16:36,034
and he said, okay,
this is the new technology,
1651
01:16:36,193 --> 01:16:37,874
I'm gonna embrace it
and I'm going to try to make stuff
1652
01:16:38,034 --> 01:16:39,714
that's as personal to me
1653
01:16:39,874 --> 01:16:41,034
and expressive as it was
1654
01:16:41,194 --> 01:16:43,914
when it was just one man,
one monster.
1655
01:16:44,181 --> 01:16:45,554
What's interesting about Phil
1656
01:16:45,714 --> 01:16:47,566
is there's no one else like him.
1657
01:16:47,931 --> 01:16:50,193
He doesn't design
like other people design.
1658
01:16:50,354 --> 01:16:52,257
You always know
when it's Phil's work.
1659
01:16:52,688 --> 01:16:54,634
He's a very recognizable
artist,
1660
01:16:54,794 --> 01:16:56,594
he has
a very recognizable style,
1661
01:16:56,754 --> 01:16:58,553
a very recognizable hand.
1662
01:16:58,887 --> 01:17:00,874
And he puts his fingerprints
on everything he does--
1663
01:17:01,034 --> 01:17:03,194
you always know
he's the artist.
1664
01:17:03,353 --> 01:17:04,914
It was good
for the whole industry,
1665
01:17:05,074 --> 01:17:07,834
good for me and good
for Lucasfilm and everybody,
1666
01:17:07,994 --> 01:17:11,234
that Phil's got
such an imagination on it
1667
01:17:11,394 --> 01:17:13,554
that there's no way
to keep it in.
1668
01:17:13,714 --> 01:17:16,034
He let his subconscious come up
1669
01:17:16,194 --> 01:17:18,354
and really could feel
1670
01:17:18,820 --> 01:17:20,709
the work and not analyze it.
1671
01:17:20,975 --> 01:17:23,074
It's the difference between
a scientist and an artist.
1672
01:17:23,345 --> 01:17:25,153
You know, we're just lucky
that he's been around.
1673
01:17:25,314 --> 01:17:26,354
I'm lucky.
1674
01:17:35,271 --> 01:17:37,754
He became well known
because of being
1675
01:17:37,913 --> 01:17:41,234
on an incredibly successful
commercial movie,
1676
01:17:41,394 --> 01:17:43,474
but the contradiction is,
1677
01:17:43,634 --> 01:17:45,034
really, really what he likes to do
1678
01:17:45,194 --> 01:17:48,954
are these very more underground
kind of things.
1679
01:17:49,114 --> 01:17:51,594
I mean,
I think this other persona
1680
01:17:51,883 --> 01:17:53,553
that's come out of Mad God,
1681
01:17:53,714 --> 01:17:56,714
that's also kind of
this underground legacy.
1682
01:17:56,874 --> 01:18:00,449
I just don't think
in terms of a legacy,
1683
01:18:00,697 --> 01:18:02,994
or what life is going be like
1684
01:18:03,153 --> 01:18:05,534
after I have no life.
1685
01:18:06,297 --> 01:18:07,594
You never know!
But I won't be around,
1686
01:18:07,754 --> 01:18:08,994
you know, either way.
1687
01:18:13,314 --> 01:18:14,474
You're either forgotten
1688
01:18:14,634 --> 01:18:16,234
or, you know,
1689
01:18:16,394 --> 01:18:18,233
read about in history books.
133205
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