Original subtitles

Hello! Stop talking, you two.

Oh, it's the Whoniverse!

Hello, faithful viewer.

This is me with Bonita Langford.

- Say hello, Bonita. - Yes, hello.

I am Bonita, as Russell tells me all the time.

He's the only one of two people that calls me Bonita.

- Nothing could be sweeter. - But do you know why?

Because I did Bugsy Malone, and on the credits they put Bonita.

He's never let me forget it, nor has Dexter Fletcher.

It's either that or Bonsai, because she's small

and perfectly formed.

Bonsai Langford. And the very tall Vicki Delow.

The very tall!

- Very tall. - I'm with two giants.

Yes, we're giants of television, me and Bonnie.

- I love these titles. - Listen, it's finale time!

Look! Look!

I should warn you all that Bonita Langford

hasn't seen this episode before, so you might scream.

- I can't wait. - You might realise all your scenes have been cut.

Yes.

I'm on the cutting-room floor.

- Oh, there I am! - There you are! - Look, you just saved...

- And there's Susan! - Where are you now?

- You're in the Sherman Theatre. - I'm in the Sherman Theatre.

Amazingly, you sealed this theatre off

and you broadcast the word "Sutekh" on screen for everyone to see.

- How we ever kept that secret! - I don't know how we did it!

- No! - You never know! - No!

I was sitting there going, "Could we have added that in post?"

Nope.

- Because that would've been too easy! - Oh, wow!

- I've never seen that bit! - Isn't that good?

Don't you love the fact that those two extras,

for the rest of time, will have their families

sitting down with them, saying, "Let's play that bit

"where you got turned to dust."

And this is my favourite thing, where you ride your Vespa.

Hop on, cowboy!

- Yes! - Come on!

On the Vespa!

- Look at the... - Oh, lovely Jems!

..swinging!

Maybe we should've played you this last night, Bonnie?

Oh, this is Jem! I would love to have seen it last night.

We're getting very live reactions off Bonnie here.

Yes! Well, it's all very new.

That's Sutekh!

- Ooh, there's Lenny! - I saw Lenny last night.

- Go, Lenny! - Did you see Lenny?

- I didn't really see... - Oh, Bonnie and I were...

That's showbizzy. We were at the Baftas last night.

- We were at the Baftas. - And Lenny was there and he was delighted.

- I wasn't at the Baftas. - I didn't see...

I didn't see anyone. I was sort of kept away.

- You were banned, Vicki. - I was banned.

- Yeah, I'm always banned! - I'm always banned.

Slowly being banned from every awards ceremony...

- This is amazing! - ..in the country.

So, I've done a little bit of ADR, but I didn't see any of these bits.

- It was fantastic. - Oh, no, it wasn't in yet!

No!

No, but also the effects weren't really there.

- It was just... - Yeah, well, we had puppeteers, didn't we?

- And we had that big puppet thing... - Yes!

..on the day.

- Yes, when you took... - Now, Jem was amazing,

because she had such an incredible speech

and literally just nailed it in about two takes, didn't she?

She's amazing, isn't she? We were lucky to get her for this part.

- Look, everyone dying! Look! - Oh, no!

Birds will sing again.

- But do you know what, Bonnie? - There will be birds.

It's, like, at various points in the script,

you were meant to die like this.

- Yeah. - And you weren't meant to go sailing off in the TARDIS.

And I just couldn't do it to you.

I thought, "Jemma, easy. Gone, love, dead."

I thought... Because you've been the Doctor's companion,

I thought, "I can't do that to someone who's been..."

But we had to get her to do this.

I... Oh, yes!

- Look at that! - When is it you, Bonnie?

- When is it you? - This is you. - It's all me.

It's all me.

I am now a champion Vespa rider.

I think, faithful viewer,

if you watch Doctor Who: Unleashed,

- you will see that Bonnie barely moves. - Sorry.

Don't give away all my secrets.

I'm trying to look strong.

Do you remember the conversation we had about the Vespa?

"Am I really going to be driving it?"

No, Bonnie.

- Hey, Vicki. We had a nice day. - Wouldn't let me.

- It was beautiful that day. We were really lucky. - That's a shot!

- It was beautiful. - It was two days.

- But it was windy. Oh, it was like a wind tunnel. - Oh, it was!

- BONNIE GASPS - There's the taxi! - Yes, the taxi.

- Yeah. - We broke a camera that day.

- Yes. - Oh, you did break a camera, didn't you? Yes, yes, yes.

Oh, and there's lovely Anita.

She's really terrifying in this.

Dame Anita Dobson. Dobs, as I call her.

- And Michelle. - See, I didn't know all these bits...

You don't read the bits you're not in, do you?

- I do. - You chuck those pages away!

I've seen you! Like that, chucking them away!

You know.

- Oh, look, there... - I was in a soap for too long.

- Mrs Flood is still very mysterious in this episode. - Yeah.

We have plucked Bonnie from the set of series two,

where more is revealed about Mrs Flood.

- Mrs Flood. - That's all we're saying.

A lot more is revealed.

But we always knew there was something there.

Oh, something's going on.

Well, she says here, "I had such plans!"

And you are in the middle of those plans right now.

Yeah.

- Wow! - Oh, wow!

That's superb!

Angela Wynter, who's just such a star, as well.

Oh, isn't she just?

- I know! - The fact he comes from the middle of her face.

- We actually... - It's just like... - It's really gross, isn't it?

- We had to calm those effects down a bit. - Yeah, we did.

Because they were a bit too gross.

We spent a long time saying, "How graphic is that?"

Because on the rough effects, they were showing the skull.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah. - And we were like, "No, no, no, no."

There were bones of arms, do you remember?

Like broken bones. It was like... Here you are, Bonnie!

- Here I am. - And this amazing set.

One of the hardest bits for me was in the episode before this,

where I had to chase Ncuti down the stairs.

He has a lot longer legs than me,

and my knees aren't quite what they used to be.

- Everyone has longer legs than you. - And my poor knee...

I didn't say anything at the time. Yes. But I didn't say anything.

I was just like, "I've got to keep up with this guy!"

- Wow. - Yes.

- And this is our Remember TARDIS. - Oh, this was so beautiful.

- So beautiful to look in! - So this is why a lot of faithful viewers

will have seen the Remember TARDIS in Tales of the TARDIS

that we shot for the 60th anniversary,

- but we built it for this. This came first. - Mm-hm.

We built it for this. It was created for this.

And then, once we built that set, I kind of went,

- "Well, that's a nice set to have." - Yeah, don't waste it.

And the 60th anniversary was coming up and I was thinking,

"Well, why are we chucking that set away?"

And then I thought about it.

I thought, "Well, we could do little dramas on this,"

and blah, blah, blah.

So this sequence invented Tales of the TARDIS.

Then we went and shot that.

The thing I think was so beautiful about that set

is that there are so many loving touches of the past,

and I think that's what makes it so special,

- is that it is such a nod to the past... - Yeah.

..but going into what we hope is a future,

but it could actually all be ending in this moment.

Yes, gobsmacking.

- Oh, look, here he comes. - But all those different...

Oh, there he is!

- I'm going to tell you a funny story now. - OK.

A while ago, about a year ago, Mark Gatiss texted me

and he'd been to the theatre and he'd met you.

And then, at the same time...

I can't remember what you'd gone to see.

At the same time, he met Gabriel Woolf's wife -

the wife of the voice of Sutekh.

And so he texted me saying, "Can you imagine

"the night I've had?

"Mel meeting Sutekh."

Like that. And I knew we'd shot this.

- Oh, it had already been done? - "I cannot believe..."

Well, I'd written it, anyway.

It was a long time ago.

So I'm sitting there going, "That is the maddest coincidence."

And I couldn't reply to him because...

- Yes, Tom Baker, look. - Yeah.

- I didn't know that was going to be in it! - Oh, yeah!

That was in it when you shot it, wasn't it.

- No, it was a blank screen! - No, I think it was a blank screen.

Because we hadn't done it at that point.

So Mark Gatiss predicted the future.

- Isn't that weird, though? - That is peculiar. - He sent me that text.

I was like... I sat there thinking, "Am I being wound up?"

And he really meant it, though. He'd really done that.

- It's like... - You know how he'll take credit for that, won't he?

Oh, my God, he'll charge me money! He'll take cash, he will.

Er, that is extraordinary.

You see, way back in the Pyramids...

See, at the end of the Pyramids of Mars,

Sutekh is banished into the time vortex.

Ten seconds later, the Doctor and Sarah Jane go into the TARDIS.

So ever since I was however old I was - 15 or something -

I've always thought that that happened.

I thought, "Well, Sutekh would just climb onto the TARDIS

"and travel with it."

So it's taken me decades to write this story.

- Decades! - And here we have it!

But it's weird, because it just feels natural to me.

To me, that's not a plot twist.

- I'm thinking... - That's what happened.

- That's what happened. - Yeah, we just didn't know it.

- We hadn't seen it. - Years for it to come.

It's strange, isn't it?

- Very strange. - I love seeing the TARDIS...

- How you've got his voice I just think is just... - Oh, yeah.

- Gabriel Woolf... - He was great.

Just wonderful. Yeah, but just the connection,

the fact that the past is still part of this show,

that it has that wonderful legacy to it.

I just think that is...

It makes it really layered and really special.

- Yeah. And that's you, as well, darling. - Yeah.

I'm not saying you're 93 years old like Gabriel Woolf, but...

Sometimes I feel it, but, you know.

It is lovely.

It is a lovely legacy of this show.

To see Tom Baker being...

- In 2024, to see him being broadcast now. - I know!

And you standing there.

I love it.

This time window...

Because of course there's no commentary to episode seven.

So tell us about the time window.

So, the time window...

We did kind of a combo of projections

and visual effects to create Ruby Road...

- So that's real? - ..on the set.

So some of that is real. Most of it is real.

- Yeah. - And some of it isn't.

- Some of it we've enhanced. - Yeah, but we didn't see any of that.

- Well, you saw the back projections. - You saw the wall. - Oh, sort of.

- Yes. - Yeah. - I mean, you know, it was a projection.

- It was sort of... We had to imagine. - And we had the face of Sutekh.

- I don't know if you remember. - Yes, we did a bit, didn't we?

Oh, you imagined Sutekh.

- But the vision of Ruby Road... - Yeah.

- ..was really there. - It was really there.

And I love that. Because everyone will think we've put that in.

- Yeah. No, that's all real. - That background is really...

Oh, no, no, no. That was there.

Ncuti's really standing against that.

- Yeah. - That projection.

Which is very clever.

I think it's gorgeous. He gives a hell of a performance here.

- Yeah, he does. - Doesn't he just. - Look at him.

It's a shame to talk over it.

- It's our job. - Look how scary Sutekh is there!

- Look at that! - It's amazing.

Yeah, but there you see him in the suit.

You can feel the steam coming out of his nostrils,

- really, can't you? - Yeah.

Not Ncuti. I mean Sutekh.

Well, we did that later, didn't we?

- We put the nostril steam... - They added steam.

- Because it felt more real and more scary. - Amazing.

- It's a brilliant effects company... - Really good. Oh, they're amazing.

..who kept adding hairs to Sutekh's face,

and steam from the... If you notice, he's got a crystal.

- A ruby is set in his forehead. - Yeah.

It's bubbling inside.

- Yeah. - It's got water inside the diamond, the jewel.

- It's gorgeous. - It was Automatik,

- and they've done most of our visual effects. - You see!

There's actual bubbling inside the jewel.

And on close-ups, you see even more.

And there's smoke from the eyes! That was our favourite bit.

- Oh, wow! - The eyes are smoking!

- Raar! - Run, run, run!

- Remember they didn't... - Shut that door!

..have Sutekh in the background of that shot, Vicki?

- Yeah. - We had a right old fuss. Nem-nem-nem!

This for me was very special,

because the fact that I could see Colin's coat and tie.

- I just thought... - See, you're aiming for a Bafta! Look at you!

I've never seen the like!

It's monstrous!

- You're upstaging... - And then... - This is what I watched as a kid!

- Yeah, you see. - It's amazing.

- But I have to do it. - Isn't your favourite Paradise Towers?

- Yes. - No! - Paradise Towers is my favourite episode.

- I can't believe you remember that! - You did an interview.

Yeah, when I did... Yeah, it's in my very first Doctor Who interview.

- That's hilarious. - Honestly, I loved it.

- And here's a funny story. - One of my favourite, favourite bits.

Just to make that funnier.

In that year, I got a job presenting Play School.

I presented one episode of Play School.

- Did you? - I did one, and then I said, "Never again." What a mad job.

So I rehearsed in the old BBC North Acton rehearsal rooms.

And I was thinking, "God, they make Doctor Who here."

Went up for my lunch in the little canteen there.

Across the canteen was Sylvester McCoy,

Dame Bonita Langford and this really young cast,

- who were all the Kangs, weren't they? - Yes.

And do you know what? They were all having such a laugh.

Catherine Cusack was there. One of the Cusack girls.

You were properly lively, though.

You were all chatting to each other, and overlapping and stuff like that.

And I sat in my little corner and I thought...

Well, for a start, I was like, "Oh, my God, that's Doctor Who!"

But I thought, "Oh, my God, they're having so much fun."

And I really thought, "I'm in the wrong place here.

"I'm sitting over here and that's where all the fun is."

- Look where we are. - We did. We did have a lot of fun.

We did. But it also got very intense and serious at certain times.

- I'm sure. - Then, of course, that made it even more funny.

But, you know, it was...

But that was a lovely episode.

Because there were lots of people.

It was always nice when you felt like you were part of a company.

It wasn't just one episode. It was, like...

- It was four. - Oh, we used to do about four. - Four, was it?

- Yeah, six and four. - Yeah, it was amazing.

And then a two or something. I don't know.

Do you know, we tell that story now.

It was inventive and mad and fun.

Cannibal old ladies in it.

- And the cleaners! - Oh, that was Brenda Bruce.

- The cleaners! - Brenda Bruce. - The cleaning things!

Oh, and - yes!

- Cleaners coming through. - Brenda Bruce, who used to be in Connie.

Yeah, and Richard Briers and Clive Merrison.

- Yeah, yeah. - He got notes.

Richard Briers got notes.

He got held back because he was told he was being too funny.

- He sort of went for it in that one. - He went...

Well, you should've seen what he was doing in the rehearsals.

- But, yeah. - Well, he probably saw your costume

- and reacted accordingly. - Stop! - Do you remember? - My dots!

I had lots of dots, didn't I?

A lot of polka dot going on.

And then they made me sit and do a photograph,

and I didn't really realise that underneath

I was sitting on a box that said "danger, explosives".

I find it funny.

Does it feel weird coming back to it all?

- Or does it feel like...? - Well...it does.

- But it sort of feels... - Like home?

- It feels right. - Or right?

It feels really right.

It feels right. And do you know what?

I probably would not have embraced a story like this

- when I was younger, because I would've been... - Oh, really?

Yeah? Yeah.

"Oh, I don't know about all this."

Now it's like, "Oh, please give me that meat.

"Give me that meat on the bone."

Last time... You know, when I did it before,

I was in a very different place as a human being, as you are.

And so to come back to it just feels so perfect and so joyous now.

Was there any resistance?

- Did you think, "What if that doesn't work?" - Never in a million years.

"What if I hate it? What if it's...?" No?

Well, I had been doing the audio dramas, as well.

- Oh, that's true. - So that kept my connection with it.

I think if I'd maybe had 37 years off

and come back, I might've gone,

- "What was that show I was in?"

But because I still had that connection,

it had given me the opportunity.

And that's where we got back together again -

- because of that. - It is, it is.

And I think it feels...

- It felt unfinished with Mel. - It did. Completely.

- It really did. - The way you left was...

The way you arrived and the way you left was a bit...

Well, yeah, but it was just so bizarre.

Because I didn't know that I was meant to stay.

Never outstay my welcome!

And I felt that had gone.

- Yes, I did feel that had gone. - No-one ever leaves.

- No-one ever leaves. - No-one ever leaves.

- You never get to leave, yeah. - That's true.

Yeah, so I just was...

I got another job and went off and did that.

But, yes, it did seem a little bit "oh, bye, then".

Mm. That's true.

So it's really nice.

It's strange when you read...

Matthew Waterhouse wrote a book about...

He played Adric, so he wrote a book about his days on Doctor Who.

And of course, what you don't realise is,

when it was just shot in the North Acton

rehearsal rooms at the Television Centre,

you all got the bus into work.

I mean, now we drive you.

You get driven everywhere now

because actors are terrible - you never turn up.

Well, except that we got the train home together once.

We did, didn't we?

But you do think, in the old days, it was so...unappreciated by...

Just by the system, the whole BBC.

"Get the bus to work, turn up, do this."

Oh, well, there was one time when Honor Blackman

- was in one of the stories that I did... - Yes!

- ..and she... - Professor Lasky!

..drove to work.

She drove to the BBC TV Centre.

And they wouldn't let her in.

She didn't have the right pass or something.

They wouldn't let her in so she drove home.

And when they phoned from the production office saying,

"Where are you?" she said, "I'm at home, darling."

Unless you can get me in, I'm not coming.

And so they got her a car.

- But, yeah. - Oh, that's unbelievable.

- Honor Blackman. Wouldn't let her in. - Did she not say, "Have you seen..."?

"Don't you know who I think I am?"

"I'll tell you who I am."

It was before The Upper Hand!

So many times.

- This is gorgeous. - Beautiful.

Every world that I ever stood upon...

It was a difficult set to film in, though.

- Yeah. - Oh, really difficult to shoot in

- because it was so tiny. - Yes.

- But that's sort of what makes it... - Yes.

..even more impactful.

I like that. I never like it when they fly walls out

because suddenly sets feel...

Every director always asks for the wall to be flown out.

- Yeah. - And you go...

- We didn't do it with this one. - No, you couldn't.

Although maybe we could've made this a bit bigger.

Well, yeah, but the walls were sort of alive with all those things.

And with every...

You know, you can see mini little jukebox,

- all the different... - Everything is dead.

- Oh, Daleks are dead. - Daleks are dead.

- Daleks are dead, darling. - Everything's dead.

Everything.

And, Vicky, did you just send teams off to get props and...?

Yeah, we... Yeah, we did.

We took loads of props from all over the place.

And then we wanted to keep them.

We wanted to keep all this forever.

Because it's so beautiful, we never wanted to dismantle it ever.

- I think it is stored, isn't it, somewhere? - It is stored.

It is stored. So that we can bring it out again if we want to.

We were going to make it move, but it...

It didn't like it very much.

- We did talk about a gimbal head, didn't we? - Yeah.

- That it was going to rock too much. - Oh, yes!

Well, with the set... With the shelves like that anyway.

- It didn't like it. - And to be honest, I think...

- Yeah, everything would've tipped too much. - Yeah.

- It would have been too distracting and weird. - Yeah.

And I think we wouldn't have been able to do it quickly enough

to make it jolt enough and make it powerful enough.

- No, this bit's got a gimbal, hasn't it? - This all works.

- This is...? - Er, no, no.

- It's on a shelf but it's not... - This is... Yeah.

Oh, no, it was meant to be gimballed. Was it?

It was supposed to be on a gimbal.

Gimbal means you can swing it.

It's like a platform.

But the set didn't respond very well to our test,

- so we decided not to do that.

- Oh, bless him. - Bless the Doctor.

Oh, darling.

You two are gorgeous there. You two run forward now.

Oh, I love that moment...

- I thought he was going to jump. - ..that you're with him.

- Oh, is that what you're thinking? - I thought he was going to jump.

"He's going to jump?" Oh! I never knew that.

- That's good. - Yeah.

This scene coming up, I could watch this...

We were holding him. I was holding him.

- Were you? - Yeah, holding him there.

- Oh, darling. That's good. - Well, without him, what have we got?

- Nothing. - Nothing.

Nothing.

So, you know, we needed to feel his pain, but also hold him.

- Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Hold him in it.

- It's beautiful, the three of you... - Look at that.

Beautiful in that.

And all the piles of dust.

- Yes, that's Jemma Redgrave right there. - Yes.

- And some of it, there was... - There she is.

But some of it, there was stuff, wasn't there?

- Yeah, there was. People's passes and stuff. - People's belonging.

- Actually, we had to redress the whole set, didn't we? - Yeah.

We did this version first.

- Er... - Is that right?

- We probably... We normally change it and then... - I think...

..change it back.

I feel like...

I have to remember now. We've changed it so many times.

I think we did the dusty version first,

because then it's easier to redress back to normal...

Yes, I think we did. I think you're right.

..than to do it the other way around.

No, because I feel like, where we ended,

you had the lenses in.

Yes, and that was the only day it was tricky.

It was the only day it was tricky, because of the dust in the air.

There was so much dust, and it was just getting tricky.

- Oh, and this. - Yeah.

- And look, here's our guest star. - I came and saw this.

- I came in and saw it one day. - Did you?

- Yes, I did. - Did you? - Yeah.

I popped in and popped my head round the door.

- Absolutely no idea, darling. - This is a beautiful scene.

This was a rare visit to set for me to meet Dame Sian.

- I was like, "Hello!" - Wasn't she wonderful?

She was delightful.

- What a lovely lady. - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, she's really lovely.

She was very worried that she had no name.

The character had no name. She said, "What can I put my CV?"

- Old Woman. - It was just Woman originally. - Woman. - Woman.

And I said, "I can't give her name,"

because the whole point is that everyone's...

- Forgotten her name. - And you couldn't be listed in the Radio Times...

Isn't she down as no name?

- She's Kind Woman. - She was just Kind Woman.

- Oh, she's Kind Woman. - That was the least...

I said, "Look, I'll call her Kind Woman. Is that all right?"

- She was like, "All right, then." - "All right, that'll do."

We had a right laugh about that.

- A kind old woman. - You couldn't call her Bertha, could you?

- No. - Oh, no. - No.

- Bertha McDingle. Because it's... - Mildred.

Mildred! Mildred from planet Agua Santina.

- Those colours are just beautiful! - It's beautiful, isn't it?

Do you know, I haven't seen it on a telly this good before,

I don't think. We're looking at a real posh telly.

- And it's gorgeous. - Yeah!

Chas lit it really beautifully,

because it looks like you're outside.

- Yeah. - We're not even mentioning poor Jamie Donoghue

and the director of photography, Chas.

- Oh, amazing. - Magician right there.

- Yeah. - Absolutely amazing. - They did an amazing job.

- And this is... - And the spoons.

- The spoons. - The spoons.

I said to Ncuti about the spoons being quite relevant.

Well, echoing back to Sylvester McCoy.

- Echoing back to Sylvester. - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

- Who, you know, king of the spoons. - Absolutely.

And this is like a little five-minute masterclass, isn't it?

Two great actors.

This scene was in and out. Do you remember?

- It was. - It was cut. - Yes, yes. - Was it?

- Oh, it was just affording... - It was cut and then returned.

- ..a whole day to shoot this. - Yeah.

Naturally. Five pages at least.

And it was budget, wasn't it?

- I remember. I remember, yeah. - The episode was over.

And I said, "Well, I'll cut it." And then we cut it.

- It's like, "Oh, my God!" - We missed it.

- We missed it. - Because he could've sat in the TARDIS...

- Yeah. - ..and kind of got a spoon on his own.

- Oh, yes. - You know? And worked it out.

But it just lost the size of...

- It didn't feel like the universe had died, did it? - No.

- If you didn't see someone for whom the universe had died. - Mm.

- And there was big wrangles, wasn't there? - There was.

Yeah. Not you. You were brilliant.

- You always wanted to make it happen. - I wanted to make it happen,

but I was aware that we couldn't fit it in anywhere.

- Yeah. - But we did. And it's beautiful.

What did you do, then, to make it fit?

Oh, God, I can't remember.

- I'll have taken a cut somewhere. - Killed someone off.

- Big scenes with you probably... - Probably me.

- ..that were cut. - You probably did cut it.

Or I probably made our first AD cry, maybe?

Maybe that's what I did.

Civil servants, do you remember, in the original draft?

When they get to Whitehall,

- there were zombie civil servants walking around. - Yes, yes.

- Maybe that's what it was. - No, I never read that one.

- Yeah. - Ah, you know, like, with your death mask on. - Oh, right.

The agents of Sutekh were searching for the Doctor

and Mel and Ruby.

So that's what got cut.

Oh, do you know what else we did?

This was originally outside,

and we moved it inside, which helped.

Yes, a good move.

- That's what I remember. - Magic!

- Ah, there you go! - In the Welsh rain.

- Tring to do this in the rain. - Well, I know.

I mean, it's better here.

- Look, Bonnie, a spoon! - At least you haven't got the rain.

- A spoon. - A spoon!

Show Sylvester this.

Do a little behind the sofa with Sylvester.

- Homage to Sylv with his spoon. - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Although I've never seen Sylvester play with a tablespoon,

I've got to say. He could do anything.

Yeah, he could do anything.

He'll find... He'll find a way.

Wonderful Sylvester.

And these two literally acted their hearts out.

Look at him!

I don't know how you lot do it.

- It's just beautiful. - It's a really beautiful scene. - Yeah.

- And it needs it to have... - Yes.

Not only is it the contrast of the feeling and the pace,

the fact that it's all suddenly gone terribly still

and slow and quiet and reflective.

But also, it's these colours.

- These earth colours. - Yes, yes, yes, yes.

But it's also a really small world

with a really big emotion attached to it.

You know?

Everyone's forgetting about themselves

- and it's...really sad. - Yeah.

She's forgotten her own daughter. Forgotten her name.

Gosh. Tough, that's what it is. It's a tough scene.

- Yeah. - It just needed it.

Thank you. Thank you for making it happen.

- It's beautiful, yeah. - Because it's...

You're amazing. It's the best team in the world.

And that's a great producer, Vicki, working out what we could do

- and what's important. - Yeah, what matters.

It's not just budget and schedules for you.

It's your understanding of a script that's brilliant.

- Thank you. - And I love that.

And the product and what we're going to end up with,

the finished product and how it's going to balance out.

And understanding that, rather than just seeing words on a page.

Yeah. Bonnie's just going, "Where am I? Where am I?"

"Where am I?" I'm just - yeah.

You've been off screen for five minutes.

It's been a nightmare.

- Oh, look at that! - Did you see?

- It's really sad. - Gosh.

I'm glad we made that effect especially soft on her.

- Yeah, I agree. - There was no skull there.

- Yeah. - It's just such a strangely beautiful moment, you know?

- It's like... - I think the effect is really beautiful.

And you're right, having bones and God knows what else in it

would've been awful.

And now relax because Bonnie's back in the scene.

We're back.

- Still stuck in this... - Look at that!

How many days were you on this set?

- I think it was, like, two or three.. - Oh, it was...

I think it was a bit more than that.

- I thought it was about four. - It was more than two, wasn't it?

- Yeah. - And then I got Sylvester's jumper.

Ah, yeah, yeah.

Well, I couldn't have one Doctor without the other.

- No! - So I got Sylv's jumper.

- There'd be trouble. - Mind you, I did stand up one day

and bang my head on the telephone. I forgot it was there.

- Oh, God, did you? - Yeah.

- Wasn't there a whole day where you had to just...? - Sit there.

..sit there. Like, almost asleep.

I think I apologised to you, said, "I'm sorry.

- "You've just got to be asleep today." - It was great!

And I love that clever old design team.

- They took Jodie's TARDIS. - Yeah.

- Crystal TARDIS. And made it like a campfire. - Yes.

- Oh, yeah, I loved that. - They sit around it

- as though they're getting heat.. - Well, that's it.

I mean, just looking in that shot there,

you can stop frame it and you could just look at everything,

from all those different eras and Doctors.

There's a roundel from Jodie's TARDIS

there in the background. There's...

Well, there's bits of everything everywhere.

- But it's so clever. - Mm.

And to dress it, they laid out all those props in the studio.

- Do you remember? - Yeah. - Days. - Did they?

Days of, like, saying, "Let's take Tom Baker's scarf,

"let's take Jodie's roundel,

"let's take Jon Pertwee's hat," or whatever,

and slowly built it like that.

Days. Many, many days.

You sort of had to stop yourself every morning going,

"Oh, there's that and there's that and there's that."

No, we actually have to film a whole day today,

- so let's concentrate on the thing we've got to do. - Get this done.

Because I've watched this 100 times and I still keep seeing things.

- Yeah, yeah. - "Oh, look, there's that!

- "Oh, my God, there's that bit!" - That's good.

Cos that's what you should do.

You should see something new every time..

And every time you watch it, I think you see something different.

It's gorgeous.

- Really gorgeous. - Yeah, I love that fire.

She drives us crazy...

- That's Phil Sims and his team. - That is Phil Sims.

Best design team in the world.

I love them.

I don't where that string of pearls is from,

- right next to you there, Bonnie. - No, it's quite...

Romana must've worn that in something, I think.

I think there's also things on here that have no history whatsoever.

- Yes, they're just pretty. - They're from the future.

- Ah, you're going to have to write a story around them. - Yeah.

You're going to have to write a story around those beads.

That's what I'm saying.

Do you know what? I love the way, as well,

that I got to wear jeans and a jumper

and just be bleurgh.

- Yeah. - It was so...

Apart from being comfortable, although it was very hot...

Oh, look out, Bonnie!

Oh!

- The real Bonnie Langford... - I'm loving your reaction.

- I'm loving it. - I know. Oh, wait until...

So you haven't seen yourself fully transformed later on?

Wow, that's... Look at Susan there!

- Look at Susan! - How much do we love Susan Twist?

We love her.

You two were so cute on set.

You were like little friends, the two of you.

- What, in their masks? - In their masks.

Their terrifying little masks.

- Boop, boop, boop. - Their death masks!

- Don't! - Oh, my God.

And you were lovely. Like, we put you through hell

with those prosthetics and the lenses.

- Sue was amazing. - It wasn't easy. Well, you were both amazing.

Sue was amazing. She really did have it on...

I mean, I had it on all day,

but I was in less dust, I think, than she was.

I don't know.

- How long was it? How many hours? - Well, what is it? - In the chair?

- Oh, in the chair? It was about four, wasn't it? - Yeah.

- About three or four. - It wasn't bad. It was about four.

Four and it wasn't bad?

Yeah, I got there about four o'clock in the morning one day.

- Really, four hours? - Yeah.

But I only had to do a couple of days of that.

Sue did a lot more than me.

And then you had to have the lenses put in.

- Then the lenses. - And the hair.

The hair, yeah. That was all fine.

But what was so brilliant was that...

So we filmed the first bit in the city hall, wasn't it?

- Yes. - Yes. - So we were there all day.

And then I had to go in another day with all the stuff on.

- And as I... - Oh, yeah.

We had to clear out because there was wedding

going to happen.

And I had to walk out between this wedding party.

And I had my head down

and I had the brolly and all that.

And literally the celebrant was going,

"Now, what's going to happen is that I'm going to say the vows

"and you're going to say this," and blah, blah, blah,

"and then we'll have the blessing," and blah, blah, blah.

And all I wanted to do was go, "Boo!"

I'd have ruined those pictures.

Imagine if they recognised you, though!

- "Oh, it's Bonnie Langford!" - Yeah.

"Just getting married, Bonnie Langford turns up."

"That's what she looks like without her make-up on."

- "She looks much better." - Yeah.

"That's what she's like in real life."

What? So, they smuggled you out? Were you literally...?

Were there not fans outside? Were you like...?

Yes, I know. And they thought it was a secret person.

- They thought it was someone else! - They thought it was someone else.

- Oh, what? - I don't know who it was they thought you were.

They'd seen me go in with jeans on, so why they didn't clock that -

but then, when I came out, they thought

it was some secret person - and it was just me.

- It was brilliant. - It was just me.

I think we were between two weddings,

- I feel like, on that day. - I think we were, yeah.

- Do you remember? - It was a busy day. - There were two weddings that day.

That's hilarious. We shot The Doctor's Daughter there.

There was a Hath encampment for some reason in Cardiff City Hall.

- It's a great location. - Yeah.

Absolutely amazing.

- Here we go. - Yeah.

She's getting me again, the hand.

So, should we do the family line?

What's that family line, then, Mel? That's a big secret.

They put dead stuff on my hand, as well,

to make it look cold.

- What did they do? - Well, a special solution

that you can put on your body to take away any kind of pink,

and it made it look dead.

Here we are. This is it.

- Here we are, yes. - Lots of people. - This is it.

- It's beautiful. - We had to cut this down. This episode's too long.

Because originally here the Doctor gives the TARDIS a kiss goodbye...

..and then the Remember TARDIS disappeared.

- Remember? - Yes, that's right. - It collapsed, it faded away.

And we had to cut it because we'd had too many effects

and the whole episode was too long.

But marvellously, that was before we'd invented the Remember TARDIS

in Tales of the TARDIS.

So now I like to imagine it just drifted away.

- Yes, it didn't... - Drifted.

Lost its anchor, slipped its moorings,

drifted away into the time vortex

and became the Tales of the TARDIS Remember TARDIS

floating through the vortex,

giving old Doctors and old companions treats.

- Yes. - And rewards.

- Yes. - Rather than having been destroyed.

Destroyed.

There we are. There's a reason for everything.

There we are. There is.

Er... Oh, yes, here we were.

- Here you are. - Here we are.

- The climax of the whole story. - In the office.

- This is somebody's office, isn't it? - In a civil servant's office.

- Yeah. - Yeah. - That's why I added the zombie civil servants.

I thought, "Well, I've got to liven this up a bit.

"It's a climax in an office."

So, they were, like, weird...

They were kind of in suits and bowler hats.

- They looked like civil servants. - Oh, I see.

But with those masked faces stalking you through the building.

- So it was quite exciting. - Creepy.

- But... - You still don't know...

Like, you still feel the fear, though, in these scenes,

because it's creepy.

Actually, it's kind of better that the whole world is dead.

- Yeah. - Actually. - That's creepier, isn't it?

Makes it odder and stranger. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Look at you, giving suspicious looks here.

Well, it's that, and also I get the feeling that I...

I felt that in this scene...

Yes, yes!

..although I was being suspicious, but I was also - as Mel...

- Yes. - ..I knew what was happening.

- So I needed to go away to save him. - You were at a transition point.

- So I was saying bye-bye. - Oh, right.

I felt I was saying goodbye to him because I was going to die.

- Yes. - I don't know.

Don't worry about me.

There was a great big flood of music there,

just to make it suspicious.

I love the look Ncuti's giving you there.

- He knows... - I don't think they'll... But they won't guess it when...

- I wonder. - ..what happens happens.

- Do you think? - We'll see.

So I was trying to broadcast

"I'm going because I think I'm compromising you".

- This is beautiful. - But at the same time, I'm half being... - Gorgeous.

I know I take the mickey out of you, Bonnie.

You act your heart out in this and you're brilliant.

Absolutely brilliant.

- And she's dying, actually. - She knows she's dying.

Death is reaching across the void towards her,

and that's amazing.

And in order to save the Doctor,

to save the world, to save the universe...

- Yeah, yeah, yeah. - ..she needs to.

- Yes. - She knows she needs to.

- She has to go. - Exactly.

- Yeah. - Sort of to protect him still.

Mm. Mm.

Of course, you haven't seen the end of this episode!

I haven't seen any of it!

Oh, my God! Because eventually the DNA works.

I'm watching it thinking, "Oh!"

Because the DNA works in the end and they find the mum,

and it's beautiful when they do.

It's such a treat to see this.

Although I...

So, I have to sometimes watch these things.

But I hate watching myself.

But I am always excited about seeing these episodes.

Always. I have always been.

And so, when I went and did that ADR, I was like,

"Oh! Can you show me a bit? Can you show me a bit?"

You couldn't have watched all your EastEnders, could you?

- That was just... - No, no, no, no.

- No, no. - It must be strange to watch yourself.

Look, you see! You're giving it everything!

- Oh, here we go!

- Crazy Gabriel Woolf's voice. - Creepy, creepy.

- Gorgeous. - And then we made it snow.

How much did you love Carol of the Bells

by the end of this series, Vicki?

- Do you know what? I quite like it.

Vicki gave a speech at the wrap party saying,

"I will never have to listen to Carol of the Bells ever again!"

Oh, yes, you will!

- Today! - It was omnipresent, wasn't it?

- I quite like it. - Oh, I love it.

- Oh, look, I've got steam coming out... - But probably during filming

I was a bit like, "Enough already. I don't want to hear it any more."

Oh, Bonnie, get ready!

- Oh, gosh. - Oh, my God, here it comes.

It's all in the one shot now. You wait.

This just reveals itself...

..to - bah!

Ah, there she is!

The hand of Anita!

I'm sorry.

- Oh, my God, look. Wait, wait, wait. - Oh, yeah.

- Looking good. - And there's a brilliant... Hang on. - Gorgeous.

- Oh, crack of the neck! - I love that!

- I think I said that to you. - Isn't that great?

And was it...?

Is it tense on your face? What's it like?

- Er, it's heavy. - Heavy?

- It's very heavy. - Is it?

- It's quite thick. - Right.

- Er, it's heavy. - What do you do to alleviate that pain?

- Do you lie back, or what happens? - No.

You get used to it. You get used to it.

- It's not too bad. - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Er... But, yes, it's heavy.

It's heavy on your forehead.

I've just got to say, because of the absence of the Remember TARDIS,

we have complete narrative collapse at this point,

where the TARDIS just invents a time beam

that transports you through time and space.

I did point this out to the production team.

Because originally the Remember TARDIS took them there.

- It's brilliant. - I remember now.

And I did point out to my lovely producer, saying,

"We've just invented something we'll never use ever again."

- You might. - We might.

- Might. You never know. - I'd rather not.

The fact the TARDIS can just whoosh you

through time and space without a TARDIS.

It pains me, but I blame everyone else.

- It just gets forgotten. - Let's just suspend disbelief, OK?

We'll just forget it.

That's because I think the walls of reality have broken down

and were so thinned by Sutekh's destruction

of all life in the universe,

that different rules apply in that moment, and never again.

- There we are. - Thank you, darling.

- Thank you. - That's amazing.

- Oh, I loved how he did this. - That's, like, a sound effect.

And the colour green is from the original Sutekh,

- who used that with mind powers on the Fourth Doctor. - Yes.

- So we copied that moment. - Yes.

Beautiful.

Now, this is... This is one of my old devices.

- The trick, where you think... - He was so superb in this, Ncuti.

..they're surrendering.

And I said to him at the time.

He absolutely loves physical theatre.

- He's so physical. - Anyway, his whole thing was physical theatre.

And he said, "I love doing all that stuff!

"I love getting it through my body."

- But, actually, look at Millie here. - Beautiful.

The Legend of Ruby Sunday -

the whole story revolves around her and her mum.

You think this looks like...

If we got this right, you're sitting and going,

"Who's the mother? Who's the mother?"

Is it, you know, goddess of death?

Or, you know, Sutekh's wife?

Or some great grand god?

- And if we've got this right, I wonder... - Here you go.

And she shows the results.

Waited for so long and...

- ..bang! - Yes!

It was a trick!

- Thank goodness for intelligent women. - Go on!

Go on, Millie!

- Come on now! - Run!

Now, you've upset...

And he's got the glove that he picked up

- in the Remember TARDIS. - Yep, yep, yep, yep.

- Because he knew. - He knew.

- She's too cold. - She's too cold, Bonnie.

And here comes the magic whistle.

Oh, do you remember? There was a long explanation

- of the whistle that we cut. - Yes.

- Yeah, yeah. - Yes. - Oh, yeah. There was, wasn't there?

- Yeah. Look at you two on the march. - Yes.

- Come on! - We're going!

Were you laughing, you and Susan Twist?

No, we didn't, because we knew...

I knew, if I started, I would not stop.

So I did not go there.

I was very serious that day.

- Oh! - Because I knew...

- Wait till you go flying. Watch this bit. - Yeah.

- This is brilliant. - Look out, Bonnie!

- Here it comes! - There we go. - The music.

- Bang! - Wow!

That's not you. That's a stunt double.

I would've done it, though. It was wires.

- I would've loved it. - Look at Sutekh.

Done a little somersault there.

So, here in the script... We shot this...

Earlier on, when the Doctor gets the whistle

in the Remember TARDIS, he looks up quite significantly, doesn't he?

- Yes. - He looks up.

Because then, when he arrives here...

- He's got it. - He takes the whistle and he goes

to a little floor compartment in the TARDIS...

- And he throws it. - ..and he drops it down into the Remember TARDIS,

where the Doctor's waiting for it.

So he created the whistle himself

and passed the whistle to his younger self.

However, we decided in the middle of a chase...

How do you think of these things?

Well, I didn't, obviously, because we cut it.

- We cut it. - Well...

It was just a bit much in the middle of a chase, wasn't it?

It was like... Even I...

I wrote it and I started thinking, "What's he doing?"

Oh, no, it was good!

- I thought it was great! - It was good. "Love my whistle."

- And that's when he went and did it. - Yeah.

And we lost it.

- See, look, he's lost the whistle. - Oh! - See? It's gone.

That's where he went and dropped it

to his previous self, and blah, blah, blah.

OK. Now, this was on a gimbal?

So, this was on a gimbal in another studio.

- I knew there was another gimbal! - Yeah. - Yeah.

So what that means is that's why...

That means that the TARDIS is really rocking to and fro,

and he's really having to hold on.

Because, actually, that would be impossible for him to fake,

- wouldn't it? - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, it would. Yeah. Oh, look!

And we see the whole of Sutekh there! Not just his...

- Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. - All of it. - ..top half.

- The whole thing. - Legs and all.

- And there's UNIT. - There's UNIT.

- - Oh, Bonnie! - There you are!

- Look at you! Indestructible! - And then we all wake up.

And Lenny!

Oh, this scene!

- As if we'd have killed Lenny Rush! - And the Vlinx there!

- Oh, Yasmin! Hello, darling. - And gorgeous Yas!

- Alexander. - Alex.

Beautiful.

- And look how caring he is! - Oh, I love this!

This is my favourite thing in the whole world.

- What, these two? - These two.

- I just love them. - What do you mean, Vicki?

I don't know what you're talk... I don't know.

What do you mean? Do you think they're friends?

- I think they're more than friends. - Oh, and he woke up!

- Oh, here we go. Do we go back into...? - Oh, yeah.

- Colonel Chidozie? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. - Yeah, yeah.

Did we miss the bit where we went over and looked at him?

- That was the previous episode. - Oh.

- Episode seven, love. - OK.

- Of course, you haven't seen that! - No.

Don't worry. Michelle's alive.

- These two are alive. Look at these two! - These two are alive.

Aw!

With that light bulb flickering above them.

Yeah, it's so weird, isn't it?

Weird little glitch, but we kept it in.

- Yeah. - I like it. - It's quite fun. - It's gorgeous.

- Laughing! She's smiling! - Doesn't that tower look really...?

You know, I took my son to the centre of town

and he was like, "Where's UNIT?"

- Did he? - He really thought it was real, yeah.

- And he's 27 now. - Crazy.

He's ten!

Yes, and?

Look, look, look! This is it. Look, look, look!

What are you looking at, Vicki Delow?

- I love them. - Aw!

I love them.

I don't know what you mean, Vicki. I don't know.

It's the greatest romance.

See, way, way back, when we did the title sequence,

way back for the specials, for David Tennant,

that's why I wanted the TARDIS to spark with the vortex,

- because I knew this was coming. - Ah.

I said, at the end of the series, the interaction between an object

and the vortex sparking will be important.

So that's why it's always been there.

- Bonnie's giving me looks! - I love...

No, I just love the way you plant these small little seeds.

- And then they all... - Yeah.

It's like a charm bracelet,

and then suddenly you realise and it all connects.

- Oh, thank you. - And as an actor, to have that is just beautiful,

because it gives you so much more to then play on.

- And to... It just gives it gravity. - Gravity.

Wait for season three, darling.

Which isn't commissioned as yet.

We're going to let rip.

- It's all building somewhere. - OK.

- Oh, and look, this is the happy ending for Sian. - Look at that!

Yes.

- Aw! - Look at the baby! - See?

- And the baby! - The most hair of any baby ever.

Brindle Dee. Little Brindle. Where's that?

Did you build that forest?

- This is the backlot in Cardiff. - It is... - No!

I swear to you we filmed this in the backlot.

- You are kidding?! - No, we did.

- And that stone... - How? There's no green there!

- You just put it all in? - No... Yeah, there's no green.

We put it in. We had plants and things, but...

Went to the garden centre...!

Went to the garden centre and got some plants.

- No, we did it. - Got a few ferns.

But there's a stone statue in that scene

that you see in the previous scene if you look carefully enough.

- It's in both scenes. - I've got to go and look at it again.

- Yeah. - They added that at last minute, do you remember?

- Yeah, we did, yeah. - It was...

The tent was just lacking something.

- And they did that over a weekend. - Yeah.

They built a giant stone head. Amazing.

And now the final confrontation.

Do you know, I've never been in that TARDIS...

- What? - ..as Mel. No. - What?

- Never been in there. - Right. - Well, we have to do...

- Thank you. - Maybe we'll have to do something about that.

- Wait a minute... - I've been in it.

- Yeah. - To have a look around, as a tourist.

It's lovely photos of Colin and Nicola Bryant on that.

- Oh, how sweet! - Everyone's been on it.

- Yeah, everyone's had a visit. - Oh, how gorgeous.

I love this. Look.

- Look at that! - Look at that!

- That's why you had to gimbal this. - Yeah.

Oh, definitely.

And we had a crane going either side to give it really good movement,

so we had the gimbal and the crane.

And that made it look like it was going through the vortex.

- Brilliant - and we shot our hearts out with this. - Amazing.

It's really, really brilliantly done.

So this is Jamie and Chaz at their finest.

I mean, look at that.

Sensational! Look at that!

- Not a real Millie in the background there. - Here goes no.

- No. Oh, no. - We didn't have Millie in the background.

We didn't have Millie, no.

At the last minute, we went, "Where's Ruby gone?"

So that's a little digi-double Ruby standing at the console.

We're nuts. We just forgot to do it!

- Oh! - Look at that!

- Oh, these shots! - Here he goes.

Oh!

And he finally, finally dies. It's a great death shot.

- It's great. - Watch this now, Bonnie,

because as I said, he's got to absolutely die this time.

- OK. - Never coming back.

- Oh, my Lord! - Gone.

It's brilliant, isn't it?

- And this is the last scene we shot of the whole series. - It was.

- Do you remember? - Yes, I do. - Because you were there.

- We were standing there, weren't we? - We were.

I told you my story about Paradise Towers standing here.

- Yes, you told me that there! - Yes, yes, yes.

And, actually, if you watch Doctor Who: Unleashed

on BBC Three and available on the iPlayer,

viewers, you see this,

and then it's a wrap and the whole cast and crew were there.

- The cast and crew and everyone... - Everyone clapping.

- It's really lovely. - It was a huge round of applause.

- It was beautiful. - Yeah, yeah.

It was a nice moment, wasn't it?

It was a beautiful moment.

I was really lucky to be there.

Well, apart from anything else, I didn't think we'd make the day!

Really? It was a mad old day, wasn't it?

I was like, "Oh, my God!"

And I made you shoot sequences that were then dropped.

Oh, I'm having a cup of tea again, you see?

- Sorry. - Cup of tea.

This is called the pizza party scene.

Oh, this pizza party scene.

- Have you seen the outtake? - Is that what you call this?

Have you got the outtake of the pizza party?

Er, probably somewhere.

There's a fantastic outtake.

Have you seen the outtake of Lenny?

No. What? No.

- Oh, no! It is! Yes, I have seen it. - What does he do?

So, we were all there all day doing this,

having our pizza,

and darling Lenny was hungry.

- Yeah. - For real.

- Yeah. - And so they were doing his shot.

- This shot. That shot. - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So, he puts two mouthfuls of pizza in his mouth,

and what was the funny part was because

I was standing opposite and I could see B camera.

I could see the cameraman going like this with his shoulders.

And I thought, "What's going on?"

And he had seen that Lenny had a line coming up,

but a mouth full of pizza.

And so it was all quite intense and reflective,

and everyone was very sort of quiet and peaceful.

And then they come to Lenny, who goes...

And we... Look. I mean, look at him.

It's just so adorable.

Oh, he gets away with murder.

And that was it. We'd all gone.

- Oh, that's brilliant. - We'd all gone because the pizza

- was in his mouth, going everywhere. - I didn't see that.

Yeah, I whizzed through the rushes. I missed that.

And here's the reveal of Ruby Sunday's mother at last.

The story comes full circle.

- Here she is. - Aw!

- Faye McKeever. - Faye McKeever.

- Beautiful. - Such a lovely, lovely woman.

I've actually taken Faye McKeever's name off the billings for this

because, knowing what fans are like,

if you go and look up Faye McKeever, you're going to go,

- "Oh, that's Ruby's mother." - Yeah, yeah.

- She looks so much like her. - Yeah, they do.

I mean, she's a great actor, as well, that we cast for it.

- She is. - She is so good.

She does a lot of stuff with Quay Street Productions.

She did After the Flood.

She was hilarious in After the Flood.

But, literally, you would -

and fans do this. They would go, "Oh, there she is."

So, apologies that she's not listed in the Radio Times

or anything like that.

- But we knew people would be... - But it's a good reveal.

She's in the credits. She's not in the billing.

Yeah, OK. Oh, I see.

And this is...

This is kind of my reaction to - bear with me now -

the Star Wars films.

I can't remember their titles, but in the last trilogy.

In the last trilogy, the second film said that Daisy Ridley

was nothing special,

there was nothing special about her parentage.

- That she just got the Force... - Ordinary.

She was just ordinary. An ordinary person with the Force -

and then in the next one, they changed it all

so that she was the child of the Emperor,

and they made her... She was, like, cosmic and had godlike powers -

- and I really loved the version... - Where she wasn't special.

- ..where she wasn't special. - Yeah. - When she's ordinary.

So this is my reaction to that.

I love it, that you did this.

- She's not the daughter of Sutekh. - She's just ordinary.

She's not the daughter of the Time Lords

or Rassilon or something like that.

Her mum is Louise Miller, who was 15 years old

and pregnant, from a dangerous home, abusive home,

and left her child on the doorstep.

And that's my...

- That's my reaction to it. - It's beautiful.

Because I think it's just a better story.

And it's a way of saying that, actually,

we are all ordinary with a bit extra

- and that we can all find that within us. - Yes.

And we don't have to be something...

And it's through that mum being so ordinary

that saves the entire universe.

- Yes. - Yeah. - Because all these gods can't understand her.

They can't - they think she's bigger and more powerful,

and, actually, she's only big and powerful

- for being seen that way. - For being real.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I always thought I was called Ruby because...

And that's what Ruby's...

That's what Louise has been pointing out all this time.

Why Louise Miller wore an ancient medieval cloak to the church...

Yeah! Yeah!

No, I think that's time shrouding her.

- Yeah. - I'm going to say that.

- Yeah. - Oh, that's good..

- No, we are said to be shrouded. - That's good. - Yeah.

Because she had to be for the sake of the story.

Oh, Bonnie. Look, a little pat from Bonnie.

- A little pat from Mel. - Well, you know.

- Well done, Doctor. - He's all right.

And now here we are.

In a coffee shop on an industrial estate.

- Oh, so I didn't see any of this! - What a strange place this is!

- The coffee shop was amazing. - It's a nice coffee shop.

To be fair to it.

It was in Barry. We were in Barry that day.

- It's in Barry. - Oh, is it?

Actually, that actually is beautiful.

- That makes me go a bit funny. - Aw, does it?

Because we filmed a story...

- I filmed a story on Barry Island. - Of course.

An entire story with Ken Dodd...

- Yeah. - ..on Barry Island.

Do you remember that? Delta and the Bannermen, it's called.

Delta and the Bannermen. You're right.

Delta and the Bannermen. They filmed in Butlin's in Barry Island.

- Yes! - I love that!

Yeah. Oh, it's great - that's on the iPlayer.

- It's a mad story. - OK, I'll have a look.

- They literally go to a 1950s holiday camp. - Yes.

And they made Sylvester drive the motorbike.

That's why I was saying, "Do I need to drive this Vespa?"

Because I need to practise.

- Ah! - Because Sylvester and this motorbike did not get on.

and every time he sat on it, it stalled.

- Oh, I didn't know that! - And the only time it ever worked

was when he then nearly drove me

and Brian Davies over a cliff in Barry.

- Oh! - Isn't that hilarious? - Brilliant.

I love those connections! That's beautiful.

- It's Barry! - There she is. - You're back...

- There's... - There she is.

..Louise Miller.

And do you know, when I realised you could do this with a coffee,

that was a nice moment sitting at my desk.

- That you write names on coffees and call them out. - Yeah.

- I was like, "Oh, that's it!" - Yes!

Because I was like, "How is he going to do this?

"How can you do this within the space of one scene?"

- And you did it. It was amazing. - Not all coffee shops do it.

But...not all do the calling out -

- but I thought they do in Barry. - I have a coffee name.

- What's your coffee name? - Doris. - Doris!

Do they all sit there behind the counter?

"Look at Bonnie Langford pretending we don't know who she is."

"That's definitely not Doris!"

Well, I don't want someone shouting my name out in the middle of...

- It's a bit embarrassing. - "Bonnie L! Bonnie L!"

But they always go, "How do you spell that?"

And then I have to spell my name out.

So I go, "Doris." But there has been weird things.

I remember going to a coffee shop once

and somebody got very upset that they had to say their name.

And I just said, "Make something up."

And he looked at me as if I was completely insane.

But he then did it, and I said, "There you go."

There we are. As long as he didn't call himself Doris.

- You can have a coffee now. - Look at Faye acting her heart out now!

- Aw! - They both cried in the read-through.

- Do you remember? - Oh, my God, the read-through!

- The read-through was beautiful! - Oh, my God!

I remember Jemma holding Anita Dobson's hand

- because they were crying so much! - Yeah!

They were sobbing.

But, you know, she'd never met any of us.

She just came in and she blew us all away and made us all cry.

- It was amazing. - Do you remember, originally it snowed

- in that coffee shop? - Yeah.

The snow came down. And then we kind of went, "That's a bit rubbish."

We looked at it and went, "Don't be so stupid."

Yeah, it was meant to be kind of...

- It was just a bit daft, wasn't it? - Yeah.

You sat there going, "What's the barista doing?

"Looking at the snow?"

It read as all poetic in the script, and it wasn't.

It was just a bit mad.

Well, and also, it's done.

You don't need that, because it's the completion.

It's... It's...

- And they start to get... - It's not the dream...

- It's not the story any more. - All the mums together.

- Look at that. - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

- And there it is! - And there it is! - In the doorway!

Beautifully framed in the doorway, I must say.

We've out that TARDIS in so many places in that flat.

Presumably it's sticking through the roof.

I know, but the fact that the door frame frames the door of...

- That's gorgeous. - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, there's a lot going on here.

There's lots of layers.

- There's a lot of layers. - There's lot of endings.

- There's a lot of endings. - It's like Lord of the Rings.

It's got three endings!

Just when you thought it was all over.

And these two...

And it is a shame to talk over this.

These two are at the height of their powers.

Exquisite performances.

I mean, really, we're lucky to...

We're lucky to have had them for this.

Lucky to have them.

I love the way she's interrupted by her phone.

It's like...

Like modern life.

- She's so young. Her phone keeps interrupting her. - Mm.

Oh, gosh.

There's the dad we never see, of course.

One day. One day.

- I was going to say, not yet. - Yeah. - They think they've found him.

My dad, William. They think...

Because it turns out his mum and dad still live at the same address,

but she never told him -

my mum, my real mum.

- And you can almost feel... - I love how she makes that mistake there.

Because Carla's her real mum.

- Yeah. - Yeah. - But it's all so new that she calls it...

I mean, there's more of this family to come -

and the moment she calls Louise her real mum,

- which you wouldn't do... - No.

..but she shouldn't do - but you would do in the moment.

It's like... I remember thinking long and hard about that

and going for it.

Because you want them to talk perfectly.

- You know? It's like... - Yeah.

And it's still a mess. That's why she's got to leave the TARDIS.

She's got to go and find out who she is

and who her father is and who her birth mother is,

and for Carla to be her real mum...

And he can see. You can see it in his face, as well. He knows.

He knows she has to go - and that's really sad.

Well, you've planted that from the beginning.

Because he said, "There's one place I can never go."

- Yeah. - Yes. Yes, yes, yes -

and, actually, now he has, he spoils his own life.

- But actually... - Yeah.

..now that's...

Yeah.

And it's no secret to say -

people watching this commentary -

- this is not the end of Ruby Sunday. - No.

It's absolutely... Oh, my God!

I mean, the stuff you're shooting right now

is kind of a bit...

Oh, my God! I can't describe to people

what you're shooting right now for season two.

It's nuts. But it needs to do this.

There's no way she can say, "Hello, Mum. Hello, Dad."

And, "Where's my dad?"

And then go, "Bye, I'm going off with this guy again."

- No. No, no, no, no. - She's got...

- Oh, secret, secret... - Loads more to go.

- She's got great journeys to come. - It's really good, yeah.

And he's got great journeys to come.

And he says, "I'll see you again."

But I just love the fact that there's the thread

that runs through that you don't even know is a thread

until suddenly you go, "Oh, hang on a minute!

- "That tied up with that!" - Yeah.

- "And this tied up with that." - It's very much a two-year plan.

- Two series were commissioned at once. - Mm-hm. - Right.

So, yeah, and sometimes it's hard for viewers to grab that,

and I think that's our fault, you know -

and neither should you have to get that in your head.

Well, yeah, but that's what's exciting about it.

At the end of the two years, you'll look at it and go,

"Oh, right, that was all heading there,"

- and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. - Yeah.

- But be patient. - Well, it's about the seeds I was saying before, you know?

- Yeah. - But that's what drama should do.

It should be going, "Oh, but that was that and that was that."

Actually, just to disagree with myself,

- it's the one audience that likes the long narrative. - Yeah.

A long, complicated, interweaving narrative.

That's a science fiction audience. That's a...

- Oh, look! - Oh, look! - I love you.

- "I love you." - Now, look...

Sweet. Oh, it's making me upset.

- In the script and on the rushes... - Don't do this to me!

- What are you doing to me, Russell? - I know!

- But then she goes out, and we talked about this for a long time. - Yeah.

He then says, "I love you," but we cut it.

- And he was glad we cut it. - Yes.

- Ncuti was glad we cut it. - Yeah.

- He doesn't need to say anything. - He doesn't need to say it.

No, it's like...

- Look, it's all in the performance. - Look at his face!

He's devastated.

- It's beautif... - It's lovely. - Yeah.

- He's on his own again. - Yeah.

But you never normally see The Doctor

devastated in that way.

But then I love this picture of women at the end.

Mothers, grandmothers, the family - the power of this.

- Actually, never mind your Time Lords and your TARDISes. - Mm.

- That's what it's all about. - Look at that.

That's all of us, isn't it?

Watching The Doctor fly away.

Oh, I'm upset.

That's made me upset!

What an idiot!

If she'd gone with him, you wouldn't have this emotion.

Well, no, you're right. And it would've been just...

As you say, it would've been, "Oh, bye, then. I'm off."

And then just what do you think it's over,

- you've got the maddest ending... - There's this.

- Do you remember the ending? - What's going on now?

- This is brilliant. - It's the fourth ending.

- Fourth ending! - What are you doing..?

- But watch this. - This is brilliant.

This is possibly a bit camp?

- Yeah. Camp? Yes. Yes. - Camp.

- Just a little bit camp. - Not too camp.

Look, look, look, look!

- Look who appears! - Oh, my God.

But life goes on, doesn't it?

Oh, my...!

I didn't know she was wearing that!

- I knew she was on a rooftop! - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I thought she might've been dressed like Mary Poppins or something,

- but look at that! - Worst of all, we stood her on the real rooftop

- and she doesn't like heights. - No.

She could've been on the studio floor! Look at her!

- It's like... - I know.

This was our second attempt.

Because the first attempt, it was raining so hard

we had to give it up.

- Because there is a real... - Yes, and it was at night.

- It was at night, yeah. - Wasn't it?

- Doctor Who will return. - It will return. - It will return.

- Definitely will. - Oh, yeah.

- Bonnie Langford. - That is superb.

- You are the greatest delight. - Thank you for letting me watch that.

Because that made me laugh and cry.

It's really nice to watch it through your eyes, as well,

because we've seen it so many times.

And, Vicki, what a production. You are just amazing.

You give us the words and all the other things.

I know, but that's the easy bit.

And you answer my text messages at three o'clock in the morning.

No-one else does that!

And Vicki sends me very rude emails...

- Well, of course she does. - Immensely proud.

Immensely proud that you're a part of it, Bonnie.

- Thank you. I am so... - An integral part.

..so proud and so grateful that I'm part of this,

because I'm really proud of this,

whereas I was never proud of being in it before.

Oh, that's good!

I wasn't proud of myself.

So now I'm proud of being in it, and that means a lot.

And I hope you can look back and be proud of those old days, as well,

- because it's all led you here. - Well, yes,

but, you know, when you're in a different place

- and the world is in a different place... - Yeah, yeah.

..and technology is in a different place...

- And it's over. - ..and you're talking about the future...

- Bonnie, it's gone. - Oh, sorry.

Getting too deep here.