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We're talking about swinging,
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two couples who swing.
Larry Levenson is here.
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He's owner of Plato's Retreat
in New York City,
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an actual commercial establishment
where people can go and swing.
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Some of the tenets of swingers
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include the separation of...
What they say
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is the separation of sex and love.
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We promote social intercourse
and sexual intercourse.
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Whatever you want to do,
you can do.
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- Aren't you illegal?
- No. No way.
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Sex is not illegal
anyplace in New York.
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But I couldn't open
a cathouse, could I?
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Well, that's paid sex.
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00:01:04,413 --> 00:01:07,075
The '70s were
a transitional period.
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It was when the ethic
of the '60s took hold.
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1500 cops are injured.
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People were complaining New
York had become a pit of vice.
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That contributed to disco
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and Plato's also played its part
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in suddenly turning things
around in New York
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and making New York
what it was...
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The most exciting city
in the world.
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- ♪ you make me feel... ♪
- it was a party town.
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1977 in New York was
a fabulous year.
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Sexuality was in the air.
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Everybody was immensely curious.
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Lots and lots of heteros
would go to the gay clubs
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just to look at the glory holes.
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And lots of people who were not remotely
exhibitionistic would go to Plato's.
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Swing couples
went there to swap.
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You try my wife
and I'll try your wife.
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Forget about the sex. You could
wander around. You could actually swim.
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You could eat this free
third-rate buffet...
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which I always considered
tempting, but dangerous.
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They had dancing.
They had a show.
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00:02:03,789 --> 00:02:06,751
I thought to myself,
"this really can't be real.
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Maybe I'm watching
a dirty movie."
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But it was a dirty movie
that really came to life.
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Friends of mine said that they went
there by looking at it on cable television.
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00:02:15,617 --> 00:02:18,063
I was never in Plato's Retreat.
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I have no idea if they
in fact took off...
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Other than clothing.
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10 years earlier everyone
was rolling around naked
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in Woodstock, you know,
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and smoking pot and screwing
their brains out, you know,
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in the meadows.
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So this was just an indoor version
that was accessible to New Yorkers.
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I am Larry's sister.
We were five years apart.
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We were very very close
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and we grew up as best friends.
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My parents had a very
conventional lifestyle and marriage.
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My father was
a hard-working man.
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He was in
the kosher meat business.
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Oldest memories
of Larry are as a...
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00:03:02,515 --> 00:03:04,375
smiling young man,
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00:03:04,399 --> 00:03:07,895
didn't really love
the academic pursuits.
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00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:10,898
When I first met Larry, he had
just gotten out of the service.
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He had told me that his father
had a butcher shop
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and he was a wholesale
distributer of briskets.
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And he would work nights.
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00:03:19,181 --> 00:03:21,826
And I really feel that some
of the times that he said
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he was working,
he wasn't working.
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When he first married Gloria, I don't think
any of us thought that it wouldn't last
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because we didn't know anybody
who had separated or divorced.
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I thought he was cheating on me.
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My dad and my mom got
divorced when I was six.
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So my dad really
wasn't around a lot.
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My parents separated
when I was very young.
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00:03:42,921 --> 00:03:46,335
So my first recollection actually is
when my dad used to work at McDonald's
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00:03:46,359 --> 00:03:49,120
and he brought me the hamburglar...
it was a little stuffed hamburglar.
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00:03:49,144 --> 00:03:52,340
So that's what I used to sleep with... I
used to sleep with a little hamburglar.
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All I can remember is
through those years,
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my mother yelling at my father on
the phone, "they're waiting for you.
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You didn't show up.
You said you were coming."
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00:03:59,621 --> 00:04:03,118
And of course every business that
Larry was in was on the weekends.
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00:04:03,142 --> 00:04:06,070
So the times when fathers
would be with their children,
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00:04:06,094 --> 00:04:08,924
Larry was either off
selling sodas on the beach
78
00:04:08,948 --> 00:04:11,159
or preparing
for swingers parties,
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wherever they might be held.
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00:04:13,285 --> 00:04:15,881
I was very surprised when
Larry was involved
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00:04:15,905 --> 00:04:17,715
in that kind of lifestyle.
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I really didn't think that it was
something that would be his thing to do.
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00:04:21,443 --> 00:04:24,379
But maybe I just didn't
know him that well.
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♪ What's our favorite
evening game? ♪
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♪ Night baseball? ♪
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♪ Oh, baby, you're all wet ♪
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♪ let's swap partners
is the name ♪
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00:04:40,395 --> 00:04:43,542
♪ suburban roulette... ♪
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00:04:43,566 --> 00:04:46,211
You know what I don't like to see is this
thing about you have to be monogamous.
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00:04:46,235 --> 00:04:48,613
I say nobody's monogamous.
And if you make somebody say
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00:04:48,637 --> 00:04:50,782
that you're fucking monogamous
and you're gonna be legitimate,
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"I married her. I'm never
gonna fuck," I'm a liar.
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00:04:52,741 --> 00:04:55,137
The swinging movement
was very small
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and very secret.
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We all have jobs and we all
pay mortgages.
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00:04:59,532 --> 00:05:03,011
Just because we consider
ourselves swingers,
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00:05:03,035 --> 00:05:06,715
we're not freaks of nature.
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♪ I love your sister ♪
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♪ tomorrow night... ♪
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At a swing party, you can go,
you can find... meet other people
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that maybe can meet some
of your sexual needs
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that maybe your spouse can't.
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00:05:18,384 --> 00:05:21,029
And yet you don't have
to go out and cheat.
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00:05:21,053 --> 00:05:24,615
Swinging is a situation
where a man and a woman,
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part of their sex life
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is to find other couples
or other people
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that have similar interests,
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that they like socially,
they like to be with,
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00:05:34,149 --> 00:05:36,661
but in particular
they want to have sex with.
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♪ Suburban roulette... ♪
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♪ suburban roulette! ♪
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The meeting area
was usually a bar
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that they took over
for Friday, Saturday night.
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I worked as a waitress
and some guys used to come in
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and they brought in "screw"
magazine and I brought it home
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00:06:00,592 --> 00:06:03,271
and I showed it to Charlie.
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00:06:03,295 --> 00:06:07,108
- And that's all it took.
- And there were all kinds of ads in it.
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00:06:07,132 --> 00:06:11,379
- And we started to think about it.
- Get interested.
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It was interesting.
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00:06:17,226 --> 00:06:19,621
It was a place for them
to dance,
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have a drink, meet each other.
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I remember it looked more
like a Bar Mitzvah.
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♪ Hey, little girl,
get your dancing shoes ♪
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♪ gold satin jacket... ♪
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I don't know anybody's last name
in any of these places.
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00:06:32,123 --> 00:06:34,836
And yet you can go home
with them, make love to them,
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00:06:34,860 --> 00:06:37,722
spend the weekend with them,
kiss them goodbye...
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00:06:37,746 --> 00:06:40,158
"see you next week,
John, Mary. Bye-bye."
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00:06:40,182 --> 00:06:43,328
And that's the end of it and
you're best friends for life.
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00:06:43,352 --> 00:06:45,647
People would be handing out
slips that say,
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"okay, there's a party
on the east side tonight."
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The only problem is
when you're stoned,
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00:06:50,509 --> 00:06:54,122
and I said, "Now I gotta
go to Queens?"
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00:06:54,146 --> 00:06:57,175
♪ the roller coaster
gotta make the most ♪
135
00:06:57,199 --> 00:06:58,510
♪ and dance dance dance... ♪
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00:06:58,534 --> 00:07:02,380
I met Larry Levenson at a party
back in the mid-'70s
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00:07:02,404 --> 00:07:04,249
in Coney Island, Brooklyn.
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00:07:04,273 --> 00:07:07,918
And he started arranging some
organized swing parties.
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00:07:07,942 --> 00:07:10,188
He liked the idea
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00:07:10,212 --> 00:07:13,274
of being able to have
that scene out in the open
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00:07:13,298 --> 00:07:15,109
the way gay bars did.
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It was a one-man band
at the beginning.
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It was just him and Mary and
maybe a couple of other people.
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Mary made all the phone calls.
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Mary did a lot of the footwork.
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Mary was actually responsible
for putting together
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the logo of Plato's.
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The backward twos
was Mary's idea.
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I'm going to ask you one of
my favorite indiscreet questions.
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How did you and Larry meet?
Now come on, the truth now.
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00:07:43,912 --> 00:07:48,393
Well, I had come with
another young man to Plato's
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in its first location.
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And I fell in love
with him on the spot.
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♪ When I get home, babe... ♪
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Mary and Larry were swingers
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And they started
the club together.
157
00:08:01,496 --> 00:08:04,092
And it seemed like
a perfect idea
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00:08:04,116 --> 00:08:06,745
and a way to be close.
159
00:08:06,769 --> 00:08:08,947
So it was a family thing.
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00:08:08,971 --> 00:08:11,532
♪ I wanna kiss you
all over... ♪
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What did he say?
Do you remember?
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Out with it!
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I was on my way
to the ladies' room
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and he told me to come
on in the water.
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00:08:23,185 --> 00:08:25,229
And I told him
I couldn't right then
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because I was on my way
to the ladies' room.
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00:08:27,623 --> 00:08:30,368
And he said, "come on in.
The water's nice and warm
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and that's how
it got that way."
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That's it, that's Larry...
Mr. Taste.
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- You got to know Mary better than me...
- Yes.
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Physically and mentally.
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00:08:41,303 --> 00:08:45,166
That might have been your
first female, I think. Really, huh?
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- No.
- No?
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It mushroomed from there.
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Got ahold of a hotel...
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This hotel basement pool area.
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Yeah, so this call came in
from somebody...
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I don't remember
who it is anymore,
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00:08:58,086 --> 00:09:01,733
some friend or acquaintance
and said, "there's this live sex club
180
00:09:01,757 --> 00:09:04,201
where people are having sex
in front of everybody."
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00:09:04,225 --> 00:09:06,821
And I said, "you mean
a gay bar?"
182
00:09:06,845 --> 00:09:09,557
and they said, "no no,
these are straight people."
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00:09:09,581 --> 00:09:12,877
♪ am I dreaming ♪
184
00:09:12,901 --> 00:09:14,863
♪ that you're with me? ♪
185
00:09:14,887 --> 00:09:17,232
- ♪ am I dreaming... ♪
- Plato's was always
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00:09:17,256 --> 00:09:19,367
for couples only.
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00:09:19,391 --> 00:09:23,037
And of course we always
invited single ladies.
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00:09:23,061 --> 00:09:25,072
It was a tacky little place.
189
00:09:25,096 --> 00:09:27,625
And sitting behind there
is this guy Larry...
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00:09:27,649 --> 00:09:30,495
Who I later learned is Larry
Levenson. He seemed in charge
191
00:09:30,519 --> 00:09:33,114
and he's sitting there
in a towel,
192
00:09:33,138 --> 00:09:34,416
and that's it.
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00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:36,918
One of the best
parts of it for me
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00:09:36,942 --> 00:09:39,087
was that it was relaxed
in the sense that people
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00:09:39,111 --> 00:09:41,156
were coming and not necessarily
doing anything.
196
00:09:41,180 --> 00:09:43,258
Not even necessarily taking
their clothes off.
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00:09:43,282 --> 00:09:44,909
Two of the men...
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00:09:44,933 --> 00:09:47,111
were wearing no clothes
199
00:09:47,135 --> 00:09:49,880
except for black socks
and shoes.
200
00:09:49,904 --> 00:09:54,386
And walking around that way,
kinda like that stag-film look.
201
00:09:54,410 --> 00:09:56,304
So I wrote it up.
202
00:09:56,328 --> 00:09:58,539
I played it pretty big.
203
00:09:58,563 --> 00:10:01,977
And a few days later
I went there... went back.
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00:10:02,001 --> 00:10:05,797
♪ One thing I feel
that I like... ♪
205
00:10:05,821 --> 00:10:09,017
Plato's was a simple name. It's
the only one I could spell actually.
206
00:10:09,041 --> 00:10:11,252
So we used Plato's.
Then after that I found out
207
00:10:11,276 --> 00:10:13,488
that Plato's was gay,
but it was too late.
208
00:10:13,512 --> 00:10:16,174
The lines were
just unbelievable.
209
00:10:16,198 --> 00:10:20,244
I mean we went from, what?
30, 40 couples or people
210
00:10:20,268 --> 00:10:21,779
to 400!
211
00:10:21,803 --> 00:10:24,748
Now you have a lot of people
that don't know the old crowd.
212
00:10:24,772 --> 00:10:26,984
There were people that used
to come to Plato's
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00:10:27,008 --> 00:10:30,688
that to most people... would say
were not the most physically appealing,
214
00:10:30,712 --> 00:10:33,842
but they were the nicest people
you'd ever want to meet in the world.
215
00:10:33,866 --> 00:10:37,429
They were walking around with
the black socks and the shoes,
216
00:10:37,453 --> 00:10:40,181
and this new group
were just naked
217
00:10:40,205 --> 00:10:42,533
and much wilder.
218
00:10:42,557 --> 00:10:46,403
People say, "hey, you got a date? You
want a night out?" et cetera, et cetera.
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00:10:46,427 --> 00:10:50,164
"You and your date, you got a
date that's sort of on the wild side?"
220
00:10:52,968 --> 00:10:55,446
Personally I think that
221
00:10:55,470 --> 00:10:57,715
with a little encouragement
222
00:10:57,739 --> 00:11:00,684
everybody's on the wild side.
223
00:11:00,708 --> 00:11:03,655
All of a sudden he really
was on a runaway tiger...
224
00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:05,279
Of sex.
225
00:11:10,568 --> 00:11:14,332
- It was like a big party.
- There was literally lines around the block.
226
00:11:14,356 --> 00:11:17,602
They were just coming down
and in and taking over
227
00:11:17,626 --> 00:11:20,371
and dancing and holding hands,
228
00:11:20,395 --> 00:11:22,296
and hugging.
It was a sight.
229
00:11:24,967 --> 00:11:26,583
Freaked me out.
I didn't know.
230
00:11:28,170 --> 00:11:31,766
Plato's was becoming big.
We needed a big place.
231
00:11:31,790 --> 00:11:33,734
We needed a special place.
232
00:11:33,758 --> 00:11:36,404
He contacted a couple
of good friends of his
233
00:11:36,428 --> 00:11:39,223
which I also knew:
Frank Pernice,
234
00:11:39,247 --> 00:11:41,709
Frankie... he was
some sort of caterer.
235
00:11:41,733 --> 00:11:44,678
Frank came home
one day and said,
236
00:11:44,702 --> 00:11:48,232
"what a great idea.
This has to be fantastic."
237
00:11:48,256 --> 00:11:50,535
About a week or two weeks later,
238
00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:52,737
we met Hy Gordon there.
239
00:11:52,761 --> 00:11:55,606
Could be dangerous.
240
00:11:55,630 --> 00:11:58,409
They were gentlemen. They were
the type of people that they didn't have
241
00:11:58,433 --> 00:12:01,512
to throw their weight around,
if you understand what I mean.
242
00:12:01,536 --> 00:12:03,781
Why Larry had to hook up
with these people...
243
00:12:03,805 --> 00:12:06,767
I can't tell.
I don't know.
244
00:12:06,791 --> 00:12:09,887
Frankie used to say
that Larry had a grocery store
245
00:12:09,911 --> 00:12:11,740
and he turned it
into a supermarket.
246
00:12:11,764 --> 00:12:15,043
He ended up renting
the Ansonia Hotel.
247
00:12:15,067 --> 00:12:18,046
It was actually a gay...
248
00:12:18,070 --> 00:12:20,031
- bathhouse.
- Bathhouse.
249
00:12:20,055 --> 00:12:22,800
In fact Bette Midler sang there.
250
00:12:22,824 --> 00:12:24,535
And what's-his-name.
251
00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:27,922
- The piano player... Barry Manilow.
- Barry Manilow.
252
00:12:27,946 --> 00:12:32,010
♪ Tootsie roll soul
and doodle-white shoes... ♪
253
00:12:32,034 --> 00:12:34,462
When I first heard
about Plato's,
254
00:12:34,486 --> 00:12:38,316
all my ideas and everything I had
heard about Plato's basically was wrong.
255
00:12:38,340 --> 00:12:40,818
I thought that I would walk
through the door and trip over
256
00:12:40,842 --> 00:12:43,121
a lot of fucking bodies
in the middle of the floor.
257
00:12:43,145 --> 00:12:45,423
And it just doesn't
happen that way.
258
00:12:45,447 --> 00:12:48,476
It was a dark door,
just a rope outside.
259
00:12:48,500 --> 00:12:51,212
It had a long stairway
going down.
260
00:12:51,236 --> 00:12:53,248
And I think
the admissions people
261
00:12:53,272 --> 00:12:55,616
were at the top of the stairway.
262
00:12:55,640 --> 00:13:00,538
Walking into Plato's is not
necessarily an event in itself.
263
00:13:00,562 --> 00:13:03,458
Just being there is the event.
264
00:13:03,482 --> 00:13:06,777
Plato's Retreat is not
a sex club, it's a swing club
265
00:13:06,801 --> 00:13:09,079
for free-thinking free-living
adult couples.
266
00:13:09,103 --> 00:13:12,867
It's a club with everything
disco, everything included,
267
00:13:12,891 --> 00:13:14,808
with sex available
if couples want it.
268
00:13:16,378 --> 00:13:18,673
I asked,
"what the fuck is it?"
269
00:13:18,697 --> 00:13:21,876
You know? There's like
20 mattresses laid together.
270
00:13:21,900 --> 00:13:25,146
It was a dance floor. Then you
had the dance floor in front of me.
271
00:13:25,170 --> 00:13:28,483
Most everyone was
walking around naked.
272
00:13:28,507 --> 00:13:32,653
As I said, at first we wrapped
our towels around us
273
00:13:32,677 --> 00:13:35,089
when we first walked out,
but then when we saw
274
00:13:35,113 --> 00:13:37,675
the atmosphere
of everybody very free,
275
00:13:37,699 --> 00:13:40,027
laughing, kissing,
276
00:13:40,051 --> 00:13:44,199
and really without their towels,
we figured what the heck.
277
00:13:44,223 --> 00:13:46,501
I don't know, it was
just kind of like
278
00:13:46,525 --> 00:13:49,120
a bathhouse locker room.
But I do think that there was
279
00:13:49,144 --> 00:13:51,973
A lot of, like,
coaching going on,
280
00:13:51,997 --> 00:13:54,792
at least with the women
and encouragement,
281
00:13:54,816 --> 00:13:57,879
and a feeling of sisterhood
like we're all in this together.
282
00:13:57,903 --> 00:14:00,181
There was just lots
of lonely people
283
00:14:00,205 --> 00:14:02,650
looking to meet other people.
284
00:14:02,674 --> 00:14:05,720
Sex was part of the game,
but it wasn't the whole game.
285
00:14:05,744 --> 00:14:07,955
Nobody made fun of you.
286
00:14:07,979 --> 00:14:09,941
Nobody said, "ugh!"
you know?
287
00:14:09,965 --> 00:14:13,595
How you look, how you
look disgusting or whatever...
288
00:14:13,619 --> 00:14:16,069
Any inhibitions you had
you got over.
289
00:14:17,439 --> 00:14:19,684
And you didn't
have them anymore.
290
00:14:19,708 --> 00:14:22,903
♪ I can see you coming
a mile away... ♪
291
00:14:22,927 --> 00:14:24,822
And you had a jacuzzi.
292
00:14:24,846 --> 00:14:27,241
Anyone who went into
the jacuzzi was insane
293
00:14:27,265 --> 00:14:30,545
Because I think there was every kind
of bacteria. It was chemical warfare.
294
00:14:30,569 --> 00:14:33,214
We played ping-pong.
We went swimming.
295
00:14:33,238 --> 00:14:36,984
People have a sense of
being cleansed in a pool.
296
00:14:37,008 --> 00:14:38,986
This was a naughty pool.
297
00:14:39,010 --> 00:14:42,156
Guys were floating on the top
of the water
298
00:14:42,180 --> 00:14:45,582
And their penises were sticking
up and it looked like periscopes.
299
00:14:48,220 --> 00:14:52,683
I had just come from Paris
so I was a young photographer,
300
00:14:52,707 --> 00:14:55,453
and kind of a shy girl
from Ohio.
301
00:14:55,477 --> 00:14:57,405
So I... I...
302
00:14:57,429 --> 00:14:58,846
I disrobed...
303
00:15:00,248 --> 00:15:02,092
And I plunge into the pool.
304
00:15:02,116 --> 00:15:03,661
And I'm swimming.
I, like, go.
305
00:15:03,685 --> 00:15:06,797
I sort of underwatered
the whole length of the pool.
306
00:15:06,821 --> 00:15:11,302
And when I come up, I see all
these men standing around the pool
307
00:15:11,326 --> 00:15:13,504
And they're all jerking off.
308
00:15:13,528 --> 00:15:16,440
And their come is, like,
coming in an arc
309
00:15:16,464 --> 00:15:18,909
across the pool over my head.
310
00:15:18,933 --> 00:15:21,044
It was just amazing.
311
00:15:21,068 --> 00:15:23,080
That was one of
my biggest regrets...
312
00:15:23,104 --> 00:15:24,815
Was that I didn't
get that picture.
313
00:15:24,839 --> 00:15:27,351
- You go there, right?
- Definitely, yes.
314
00:15:27,375 --> 00:15:29,520
- There's a membership fee? How much is it?
- Right.
315
00:15:29,544 --> 00:15:31,088
It cost $25 per couple.
316
00:15:31,112 --> 00:15:34,258
Now for that, you get
a meal that was fantastic,
317
00:15:34,282 --> 00:15:36,945
like you get at any Bar
Mitzvah, a full smorgasbord.
318
00:15:36,969 --> 00:15:40,447
Chicken, ribs, chow mein,
319
00:15:40,471 --> 00:15:43,651
lasagna, meatballs.
320
00:15:43,675 --> 00:15:46,471
- Spaghetti.
- No, lasagna.
321
00:15:46,495 --> 00:15:48,790
- Oh, okay.
- Potato salad, macaroni.
322
00:15:48,814 --> 00:15:51,291
- Cold cuts.
- Coleslaw.
323
00:15:51,315 --> 00:15:53,027
- Cold cuts.
- Cold cuts.
324
00:15:53,051 --> 00:15:55,496
- Did I say chicken?
- Yeah.
325
00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:59,350
Why are you asking about
that horrible food?
326
00:15:59,374 --> 00:16:04,221
Jesus. Which, by the way,
Larry thought was wonderful.
327
00:16:04,245 --> 00:16:07,058
Larry really thought
that was wonderful.
328
00:16:07,082 --> 00:16:09,993
He was so proud of his buffet.
329
00:16:10,017 --> 00:16:11,895
But the buffet was disgusting.
330
00:16:11,919 --> 00:16:14,898
There was people...
Oral sex this and that...
331
00:16:14,922 --> 00:16:18,035
All crazy sex things.
So we left there.
332
00:16:18,059 --> 00:16:20,738
I said I want to go to the
room and eat my sandwich.
333
00:16:20,762 --> 00:16:23,574
So we went to another room...
I guess the pool table...
334
00:16:23,598 --> 00:16:25,776
And they were having sex
on the pool table.
335
00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:27,778
We used to go buy
pizza for ourselves
336
00:16:27,802 --> 00:16:30,113
and it was real good pizza
and we said to Larry,
337
00:16:30,137 --> 00:16:32,850
- "it would be nice after the food's
almost gone"... - just to break it up.
338
00:16:32,874 --> 00:16:36,186
- About 1:00 in the morning.
- When you start running out of food
339
00:16:36,210 --> 00:16:38,422
and people come out of the orgy
or they're dancing,
340
00:16:38,446 --> 00:16:41,325
swimming... you feel
like grabbing something.
341
00:16:41,349 --> 00:16:43,928
They're tired of
a bologna sandwich.
342
00:16:43,952 --> 00:16:46,553
I said, "Hey, why don't you
order 10 pies?"
343
00:16:47,689 --> 00:16:49,566
"Why not?"
344
00:16:49,590 --> 00:16:51,836
- You weren't hiding, were you?
- No.
345
00:16:51,860 --> 00:16:54,161
- Did you meet a nice girl?
- No.
346
00:16:55,997 --> 00:16:58,759
Everything was open except
these few black cubicles.
347
00:16:58,783 --> 00:17:01,462
That you could have private sex
if you felt embarrassed
348
00:17:01,486 --> 00:17:03,898
to be doing it in front
of the Japanese tourists.
349
00:17:03,922 --> 00:17:06,567
You could hear conversations in
the room to the right of you,
350
00:17:06,591 --> 00:17:09,020
on the left of you. You'd
hear women trying to figure out
351
00:17:09,044 --> 00:17:11,622
who was going to carpool
to Hebrew School in the morning.
352
00:17:11,646 --> 00:17:13,808
We spent some
very very happy hours
353
00:17:13,832 --> 00:17:17,512
controlling our hysteria
354
00:17:17,536 --> 00:17:20,481
so that people inside wouldn't
know that we were listening
355
00:17:20,505 --> 00:17:24,251
to the kind of forced dialogue
between people who have just met
356
00:17:24,275 --> 00:17:26,487
in an orgy room.
357
00:17:26,511 --> 00:17:30,391
It was good stuff.
I wish I'd recorded some of it.
358
00:17:30,415 --> 00:17:33,010
When Larry showed me
into this closed Cubicle
359
00:17:33,034 --> 00:17:35,746
and the woman
in there was his wife Mary,
360
00:17:35,770 --> 00:17:39,650
he seemed almost excited to be
able to introduce Mary to the press:
361
00:17:39,674 --> 00:17:42,386
"Hi, Mary, how are you?
This is John Leo."
362
00:17:42,410 --> 00:17:46,624
And again it was
almost the enthusiasm
363
00:17:46,648 --> 00:17:49,861
of a Kiwanis executive
showing off his home town.
364
00:17:49,885 --> 00:17:52,279
- Why repress your desires?
- What?
365
00:17:52,303 --> 00:17:55,533
- Why repress your desires?
- I'd like to be in the Indianapolis 500 too,
366
00:17:55,557 --> 00:17:58,959
but I have the common sense not to
engage in it because it's not good for me.
367
00:18:03,681 --> 00:18:07,478
And that's just what he said...
"it's not good for everybody."
368
00:18:07,502 --> 00:18:09,446
So for you, it wouldn't be good.
369
00:18:09,470 --> 00:18:12,149
The mattress room was
the most intense.
370
00:18:12,173 --> 00:18:15,552
And for people who found Plato's
really uncomfortable
371
00:18:15,576 --> 00:18:18,422
in terms of almost morally,
372
00:18:18,446 --> 00:18:20,725
that was the toughest place
to go and look.
373
00:18:20,749 --> 00:18:23,444
You would have maybe
200 bodies in there
374
00:18:23,468 --> 00:18:25,312
on a busy night
375
00:18:25,336 --> 00:18:29,150
and just writhing together
like a bucket of worms.
376
00:18:29,174 --> 00:18:32,487
♪ Love today, cry tomorrow ♪
377
00:18:32,511 --> 00:18:35,656
♪ who's to say ♪
378
00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:38,542
♪ life is gay... ♪
- "look at that guy's...
379
00:18:38,566 --> 00:18:42,129
He's not really handsome,
but look what he's got.
380
00:18:42,153 --> 00:18:44,665
And look what she's got
and where is that going?"
381
00:18:44,689 --> 00:18:47,301
It was real and your ears
could hear it was real.
382
00:18:47,325 --> 00:18:49,236
Someone...
383
00:18:49,260 --> 00:18:52,473
The breathing and even
the smell and the sweat
384
00:18:52,497 --> 00:18:53,808
and the... ugh.
385
00:18:53,832 --> 00:18:56,943
It exhilarated me
and at the same time
386
00:18:56,967 --> 00:18:58,945
it sort of depressed me.
387
00:18:58,969 --> 00:19:02,883
Because it completely
kills your notions
388
00:19:02,907 --> 00:19:05,252
about romance.
389
00:19:05,276 --> 00:19:08,673
Like a dance floor, sometimes
people are just dancing.
390
00:19:08,697 --> 00:19:13,360
But sometimes there's
a groove... a tribal groove
391
00:19:13,384 --> 00:19:14,861
that people get in
392
00:19:14,885 --> 00:19:17,531
and be in incredible synch
and there would be
393
00:19:17,555 --> 00:19:20,200
a lot of energy and it was
like that with the mattress room.
394
00:19:20,224 --> 00:19:23,059
I was terrified
of the matt room.
395
00:19:27,782 --> 00:19:30,945
And you'd fuck a little and
you watch a little and hang out,
396
00:19:30,969 --> 00:19:32,430
fuck a little more.
397
00:19:32,454 --> 00:19:37,341
♪ Danger in the shape
of something wild ♪
398
00:19:41,112 --> 00:19:45,782
♪ stranger dressed in black,
she's a hungry child... ♪
399
00:20:04,435 --> 00:20:08,049
Bacho the disc jockey, he told
me, "you're a reporter, right?"
400
00:20:08,073 --> 00:20:10,384
He says, "watch!"
he played the music.
401
00:20:10,408 --> 00:20:14,087
He'd speed up the music
and the things would go faster.
402
00:20:14,111 --> 00:20:17,057
He slowed down the music
and the things would go slower.
403
00:20:17,081 --> 00:20:19,650
It was unbelievable.
You had to be there to see that.
404
00:20:22,921 --> 00:20:25,472
Fast and slow lovemaking.
405
00:20:35,199 --> 00:20:37,478
Ejaculation juices
were everywhere.
406
00:20:37,502 --> 00:20:39,730
So I'm sitting on a lot
of these wet cushions.
407
00:20:39,754 --> 00:20:41,698
And then on one
of these nights I go home
408
00:20:41,722 --> 00:20:44,285
and I start feeling
really itchy.
409
00:20:44,309 --> 00:20:47,020
"Oooh, what's that?
What is that?"
410
00:20:47,044 --> 00:20:51,525
And then I looked down and I see
all these crabs were in there
411
00:20:51,549 --> 00:20:54,295
and I just got a big dose of it.
412
00:20:54,319 --> 00:20:57,231
You know, because that's
where crabs breed
413
00:20:57,255 --> 00:21:01,768
is in all those damp, moist...
414
00:21:01,792 --> 00:21:04,505
nether places.
415
00:21:04,529 --> 00:21:06,573
I mean, I just remember
a lot of this...
416
00:21:06,597 --> 00:21:09,210
You know, in the mattress room.
417
00:21:09,234 --> 00:21:12,730
♪ Hot child in the city. ♪
418
00:21:12,754 --> 00:21:15,698
What made you organize...
419
00:21:15,722 --> 00:21:18,235
Originate Plato's Retreat,
420
00:21:18,259 --> 00:21:20,437
A place for swinging couples?
421
00:21:20,461 --> 00:21:23,372
- What is the swinging movement?
- It's a couples' movement.
422
00:21:23,396 --> 00:21:25,741
Couples that want
to be free-thinking,
423
00:21:25,765 --> 00:21:27,977
free-living adult couples.
424
00:21:28,001 --> 00:21:30,080
They don't believe
in monogamous relationships.
425
00:21:30,104 --> 00:21:33,382
They would rather
get involved with other people
426
00:21:33,406 --> 00:21:36,642
but together with their spouses
instead of cheating with them.
427
00:21:38,212 --> 00:21:42,542
♪ I was born
with a smile on my face ♪
428
00:21:42,566 --> 00:21:45,345
♪ the whole of my life's
been a pantomime... ♪
429
00:21:45,369 --> 00:21:48,048
Larry had the pitch
and tone of a missionary.
430
00:21:48,072 --> 00:21:51,751
He thought he was the future
and he was pulling back the curtain
431
00:21:51,775 --> 00:21:54,654
on something
wholesome and happy.
432
00:21:54,678 --> 00:21:56,957
I only actually met him once,
433
00:21:56,981 --> 00:21:59,859
and I was unable
to shake his hand
434
00:21:59,883 --> 00:22:03,163
because just before
he extended it,
435
00:22:03,187 --> 00:22:05,131
he was doing something with it
436
00:22:05,155 --> 00:22:09,035
that would tend to make you
want to stay several yards away.
437
00:22:09,059 --> 00:22:12,605
♪ Born with a smile
on my face... ♪
438
00:22:12,629 --> 00:22:15,991
Larry said, "I fall in love
with every woman
439
00:22:16,015 --> 00:22:18,861
I have sex with, even if I have
sex with 10 women a night."
440
00:22:18,885 --> 00:22:21,414
And Larry could have sexwith 10 women a night.
441
00:22:21,438 --> 00:22:23,549
He was phenomenal that way.
442
00:22:23,573 --> 00:22:25,718
He said, "It's always romance,
443
00:22:25,742 --> 00:22:28,854
it's always exciting
and I'm always grateful."
444
00:22:28,878 --> 00:22:32,108
♪ to have your leisure
give you pleasure... ♪
445
00:22:32,132 --> 00:22:34,060
The thing I mostly remember
is he had these giant teeth.
446
00:22:34,084 --> 00:22:36,062
He had really huge teeth.
447
00:22:36,086 --> 00:22:38,948
There's a yiddish word...
hamisch... and that's what he was.
448
00:22:38,972 --> 00:22:41,617
He was like your nicest uncle.
449
00:22:41,641 --> 00:22:43,336
- A Hugh Hefner.
- A maitre d'.
450
00:22:43,360 --> 00:22:45,454
Larry was...
451
00:22:45,478 --> 00:22:47,924
no question a trailblazer.
He was a pioneer
452
00:22:47,948 --> 00:22:50,010
in his field.
Quite the guy.
453
00:22:50,034 --> 00:22:52,462
Whether you were in the
business, whether you were rich,
454
00:22:52,486 --> 00:22:54,764
whatever, Larry always
had time for you...
455
00:22:54,788 --> 00:22:57,200
especially if you had
a great-looking wife.
456
00:22:57,224 --> 00:22:59,919
I think he was lonely.
I think he loved attention.
457
00:22:59,943 --> 00:23:02,588
He loved having people
around him, you know?
458
00:23:02,612 --> 00:23:04,757
And he loved being, I guess,
459
00:23:04,781 --> 00:23:06,493
you know, the guy with...
460
00:23:06,517 --> 00:23:09,362
The kid with the...
With the baseball bat.
461
00:23:09,386 --> 00:23:11,797
It was his glove, his bat,
his ball, you know?
462
00:23:11,821 --> 00:23:13,599
Hi there. It's Larry
and Mary again
463
00:23:13,623 --> 00:23:15,334
to tell you about
Plato's Retreat,
464
00:23:15,358 --> 00:23:18,204
the first and only couples'
club of its kind anywhere.
465
00:23:18,228 --> 00:23:20,306
Yes, there's a full-length
swimming pool
466
00:23:20,330 --> 00:23:23,609
and outrageous whirlpool which
holds about 30 people at a time,
467
00:23:23,633 --> 00:23:25,644
disco dancing with a live DJ.
468
00:23:25,668 --> 00:23:28,848
I grew up in the
upper-middleclass Jewish Catskills
469
00:23:28,872 --> 00:23:30,833
of the Concord Hotel.
470
00:23:30,857 --> 00:23:33,186
I was Miss Concord Hotel at 16.
471
00:23:33,210 --> 00:23:35,020
And it seemed to me that
472
00:23:35,044 --> 00:23:37,907
all of those people
had children,
473
00:23:37,931 --> 00:23:41,211
and all those children
moved to Long Island,
474
00:23:41,235 --> 00:23:43,980
and Southern Jersey.
475
00:23:44,004 --> 00:23:46,572
And all of them went to Plato's.
476
00:23:50,410 --> 00:23:52,755
♪ When I wake up ♪
477
00:23:52,779 --> 00:23:54,907
♪ in the morning light... ♪
478
00:23:54,931 --> 00:23:58,494
The crowd at Plato's
was conventional.
479
00:23:58,518 --> 00:24:00,463
It wasn't filled
with my friends,
480
00:24:00,487 --> 00:24:03,266
but it did a great job
in some ways because it sort of
481
00:24:03,290 --> 00:24:06,452
liberated Long Island.
It liberated New Jersey.
482
00:24:06,476 --> 00:24:09,088
I never saw a velvet-rope
type situation there.
483
00:24:09,112 --> 00:24:11,491
I don't think there might
have been a velvet rope.
484
00:24:11,515 --> 00:24:13,225
I never saw an eager crowd
waiting to get in
485
00:24:13,249 --> 00:24:14,727
with bouncers keeping them out.
486
00:24:14,751 --> 00:24:19,682
Everything at Plato's,
even the ugly person...
487
00:24:19,706 --> 00:24:22,285
I don't think there
were any... was... was...
488
00:24:22,309 --> 00:24:23,986
Had a certain charm.
489
00:24:24,010 --> 00:24:26,805
- It was a poor man's playboy mansion.
- Absolutely.
490
00:24:26,829 --> 00:24:29,208
I actually admire people
that are that free
491
00:24:29,232 --> 00:24:31,844
that could go into a place like
that and just let it all hang out,
492
00:24:31,868 --> 00:24:34,013
take all their clothes off
and walk around...
493
00:24:34,037 --> 00:24:37,100
Including those fat people that
look like they've got, you know,
494
00:24:37,124 --> 00:24:39,135
double sets of twins
in their belly.
495
00:24:39,159 --> 00:24:41,487
I'm amazed that they can
do that because even though
496
00:24:41,511 --> 00:24:45,591
I looked a lot different then...
I was skinnier
497
00:24:45,615 --> 00:24:49,395
and I had two breasts... I couldn't
take my clothes off in front of strangers.
498
00:24:49,419 --> 00:24:52,932
I mean, I think it takes a lot of
something to be able to do that.
499
00:24:52,956 --> 00:24:55,384
♪ I'll meet ya
in the usual place... ♪
500
00:24:55,408 --> 00:24:57,820
I thought they had
resuscitated the orgy
501
00:24:57,844 --> 00:25:00,689
For the man in the street,
which is exactly what they did.
502
00:25:00,713 --> 00:25:02,641
You pay whatever it is...
20, 25 bucks...
503
00:25:02,665 --> 00:25:05,945
You get in and you can
join in an orgy.
504
00:25:05,969 --> 00:25:08,204
Where can you do that
in the United States?
505
00:25:09,373 --> 00:25:11,284
You could do it at Plato's.
506
00:25:11,308 --> 00:25:13,152
My friends were very...
507
00:25:13,176 --> 00:25:15,522
you know, backwards.
508
00:25:15,546 --> 00:25:19,358
And I... I grew
away from my friends.
509
00:25:19,382 --> 00:25:23,696
I grew away. I went to
the city. I went to bars.
510
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,332
I went up on Second Avenue,
First Avenue,
511
00:25:26,356 --> 00:25:30,069
up to Uptown. I wanted to
meet a more educated crowd.
512
00:25:30,093 --> 00:25:32,271
I was no boy scout.
I was a wild guy,
513
00:25:32,295 --> 00:25:34,557
Very uninhibited.
I was a model.
514
00:25:34,581 --> 00:25:36,892
The first time I heard
about Plato's Retreat
515
00:25:36,916 --> 00:25:40,012
was I went to Club Med at
Martinique with a friend of mine
516
00:25:40,036 --> 00:25:43,183
and this guy was telling me,
"Miles, you're gonna love this place.
517
00:25:43,207 --> 00:25:46,052
It's wild. Everyone's having
sex all over the place."
518
00:25:46,076 --> 00:25:48,505
My boyfriend was a minister.
519
00:25:48,529 --> 00:25:52,308
And he asked me
520
00:25:52,332 --> 00:25:55,144
to go to Plato's Retreat
that night
521
00:25:55,168 --> 00:25:56,779
And we went.
522
00:25:56,803 --> 00:25:59,915
I was a tingling mess
of hormones.
523
00:25:59,939 --> 00:26:02,768
I was like... almost like
when you're a teenager.
524
00:26:02,792 --> 00:26:05,087
As soon as I walked
down the stairs,
525
00:26:05,111 --> 00:26:07,122
a little redheaded girl
comes up to me,
526
00:26:07,146 --> 00:26:08,957
really pretty,
grabs me by the arm
527
00:26:08,981 --> 00:26:11,027
and says, "Come here.
Come with me."
528
00:26:11,051 --> 00:26:14,947
At first we talked
to each other for a little bit.
529
00:26:14,971 --> 00:26:17,316
And, um, you know,
530
00:26:17,340 --> 00:26:20,019
he was obviously more
comfortable there than I was.
531
00:26:20,043 --> 00:26:22,371
We go right into
a little private room.
532
00:26:22,395 --> 00:26:24,256
You'll love that.
We're in Plato's Retreat,
533
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,475
where everyone's having
sex all over the place,
534
00:26:26,499 --> 00:26:29,144
there are little rooms
called "for the inhibited."
535
00:26:29,168 --> 00:26:32,898
Everybody was so nice to me.
Everybody made you feel at home.
536
00:26:32,922 --> 00:26:35,651
I had a chance to...
537
00:26:35,675 --> 00:26:38,020
look around a little bit.
538
00:26:38,044 --> 00:26:42,514
And somewhere in there
he disappeared.
539
00:26:45,118 --> 00:26:47,864
And I found myself
540
00:26:47,888 --> 00:26:51,167
with a construction worker
from Connecticut.
541
00:26:51,191 --> 00:26:53,570
♪ At Plato's Retreat ♪
542
00:26:53,594 --> 00:26:56,372
♪ you can make your dreams
come true ♪
543
00:26:56,396 --> 00:26:59,576
♪ fulfill your wildest
fantasies ♪
544
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:01,678
♪ we've got them all
for you... ♪
545
00:27:01,702 --> 00:27:03,746
She was nuts, absolutely wild.
546
00:27:03,770 --> 00:27:06,549
She goes, "Oooh, pussy
loves cock. Pussy loves cock."
547
00:27:06,573 --> 00:27:09,652
Unbelievable... a maniac. I
said, "this is my kind of place."
548
00:27:09,676 --> 00:27:12,138
♪ the pleasure and the fun ♪
549
00:27:12,162 --> 00:27:14,557
♪ will keep you feeling young ♪
550
00:27:14,581 --> 00:27:17,243
♪ it's for you ♪
551
00:27:17,267 --> 00:27:19,845
♪ it's for you... ♪
552
00:27:19,869 --> 00:27:21,847
I was a young
good-looking kid, I guess,
553
00:27:21,871 --> 00:27:23,549
and several girls came on to me
554
00:27:23,573 --> 00:27:25,618
and their boyfriends
weren't that attractive.
555
00:27:25,642 --> 00:27:28,654
And if you had to go with one...
You had to trade off.
556
00:27:28,678 --> 00:27:31,524
And she yelled at me,
she screamed at me,
557
00:27:31,548 --> 00:27:33,959
and I said, "Just do it!
Just do it."
558
00:27:33,983 --> 00:27:36,094
You know?
And...
559
00:27:36,118 --> 00:27:37,797
we didn't talk much after that.
560
00:27:37,821 --> 00:27:39,682
♪ The pleasure and the fun ♪
561
00:27:39,706 --> 00:27:41,834
♪ will keep you feeling young ♪
562
00:27:41,858 --> 00:27:43,352
♪ it's for you ♪
563
00:27:43,376 --> 00:27:44,970
♪ it's for you... ♪
564
00:27:44,994 --> 00:27:47,179
He was a wonderful lover.
565
00:27:48,848 --> 00:27:52,595
And I said to myself, "People
who come to Plato's Retreat
566
00:27:52,619 --> 00:27:55,798
must be pretty good lovers,"
because this man had been.
567
00:27:55,822 --> 00:27:57,122
Um...
568
00:27:58,258 --> 00:28:01,537
♪ it's for you! ♪
569
00:28:01,561 --> 00:28:03,923
I wanted to tell the people
I grew up with,
570
00:28:03,947 --> 00:28:06,992
like, no, I came from a
neighborhood in Queens, New York.
571
00:28:07,016 --> 00:28:09,429
But you couldn't tell...
You couldn't talk about
572
00:28:09,453 --> 00:28:13,365
that kind of thing with guys from the
neighborhood because they wouldn't believe you.
573
00:28:13,389 --> 00:28:15,401
To be honest,
574
00:28:15,425 --> 00:28:18,738
it was going out
on an edge for me.
575
00:28:18,762 --> 00:28:21,374
It was a very edgy thing to do
576
00:28:21,398 --> 00:28:25,077
to...
577
00:28:25,101 --> 00:28:27,780
you know, spend an evening
in Plato's Retreat.
578
00:28:27,804 --> 00:28:30,933
There was this
attractive mulatto woman
579
00:28:30,957 --> 00:28:34,570
going down on her man
with her ass up in the air.
580
00:28:34,594 --> 00:28:37,106
I sat down
581
00:28:37,130 --> 00:28:40,643
on the mattress next to her
and started stroking her.
582
00:28:40,667 --> 00:28:44,379
No opposition, so I...
583
00:28:44,403 --> 00:28:47,717
I guess, you know,
stuck my cock in her pussy
584
00:28:47,741 --> 00:28:49,785
and screwed her.
585
00:28:49,809 --> 00:28:53,512
And she didn't even look back. She
was too busy blowing her boyfriend.
586
00:28:57,483 --> 00:29:00,452
I hope I'm not being too vulgar.
587
00:29:01,822 --> 00:29:04,133
The minister and I...
588
00:29:04,157 --> 00:29:07,269
did hook up sometime
during that evening.
589
00:29:07,293 --> 00:29:10,730
But I don't remember when.
590
00:29:12,366 --> 00:29:14,109
- Which is telling.
- Phil?
591
00:29:14,133 --> 00:29:17,463
Yeah... yes, Larry Levenson,
Plato's Retreat.
592
00:29:17,487 --> 00:29:19,015
I can speak for Plato's
593
00:29:19,039 --> 00:29:21,650
and we get about 50%
new couples every night.
594
00:29:21,674 --> 00:29:24,737
We have disco dancing...
In fact we have a song
595
00:29:24,761 --> 00:29:27,462
about Plato's Retreat that's
number six in the country right now.
596
00:29:32,151 --> 00:29:34,764
I met people years later
who said things like,
597
00:29:34,788 --> 00:29:37,150
"oh, I went in there.
I went to Plato's."
598
00:29:37,174 --> 00:29:40,670
I went to Plato's, you know?
It became part of the memoir.
599
00:29:40,694 --> 00:29:43,305
You know?
That was exciting in itself.
600
00:29:43,329 --> 00:29:45,674
We had judges, lawyers, police...
601
00:29:45,698 --> 00:29:47,443
- Senators.
- Senators.
602
00:29:47,467 --> 00:29:49,518
Robin Leach who was...
603
00:29:51,554 --> 00:29:53,131
He was there just to look.
604
00:29:53,155 --> 00:29:55,267
Students met their professors,
605
00:29:55,291 --> 00:29:57,736
guys met their ex-wives,
606
00:29:57,760 --> 00:29:59,505
future wives.
607
00:29:59,529 --> 00:30:01,874
Sammy Davis, JR.
On the dance floor
608
00:30:01,898 --> 00:30:04,209
at Plato's Retreat,
it was a treat.
609
00:30:04,233 --> 00:30:06,946
They'd tell me
this guy was a big star...
610
00:30:06,970 --> 00:30:08,831
Frank Sinatra's friend,
you know.
611
00:30:08,855 --> 00:30:10,816
- Althea, his wife...
- Althea, his wife.
612
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:12,151
Pulled her shirt up.
613
00:30:12,175 --> 00:30:14,870
Oh, man, how could
I forget his name?
614
00:30:14,894 --> 00:30:17,773
He's a writer...
Hugh Hefner's friend,
615
00:30:17,797 --> 00:30:19,642
he committed suicide...
616
00:30:19,666 --> 00:30:21,476
Jerzy Kosinski.
617
00:30:21,500 --> 00:30:23,679
Much of the cast
of "Saturday Night Live."
618
00:30:23,703 --> 00:30:26,198
What's his name?
Dreyf... Richard Dreyfuss.
619
00:30:26,222 --> 00:30:28,150
He never came down with a lady.
620
00:30:28,174 --> 00:30:30,686
Again he was invited to stay.
621
00:30:30,710 --> 00:30:33,139
Dan Pastorini was
having a big year
622
00:30:33,163 --> 00:30:36,441
with the Houston Oilers.
And the men recognize him.
623
00:30:36,465 --> 00:30:39,278
And the men started, "It's Dan
Pastorini! It's Dan Pastorini!"
624
00:30:39,302 --> 00:30:42,381
And just immediately
grabbing their wives
625
00:30:42,405 --> 00:30:44,349
and just... you know,
626
00:30:44,373 --> 00:30:46,118
"fuck Dan Pastorini!"
627
00:30:46,142 --> 00:30:50,840
Why did you decide in early 1973
628
00:30:50,864 --> 00:30:52,558
to go underground?
629
00:30:52,582 --> 00:30:56,161
There was no way that I could
possibly get a fair trial.
630
00:30:56,185 --> 00:30:58,714
Abbie Hoffman was underground,
631
00:30:58,738 --> 00:31:00,482
running from the FBI, basically.
632
00:31:00,506 --> 00:31:04,503
And one of these times I got a
phone call from him saying, "I'm in town.
633
00:31:04,527 --> 00:31:08,941
And I've been reading
all about Plato's
634
00:31:08,965 --> 00:31:12,845
in your column in the 'Voice'
and I want to go to Plato's Retreat."
635
00:31:12,869 --> 00:31:15,480
And I said, "are you
out of your mind?"
636
00:31:15,504 --> 00:31:19,602
This is where we're working
on the new constitution.
637
00:31:19,626 --> 00:31:22,104
And he said, "no no no,
I gotta go. I gotta go.
638
00:31:22,128 --> 00:31:24,073
I gotta go there.
I gotta see it.
639
00:31:24,097 --> 00:31:26,008
I can't miss this."
640
00:31:26,032 --> 00:31:28,293
He comes over after awhile
and he says,
641
00:31:28,317 --> 00:31:31,263
"Can't I tell them who I am?
I mean, they... they...
642
00:31:31,287 --> 00:31:34,834
They just walk away from me. I thought
you said everybody gets laid here."
643
00:31:34,858 --> 00:31:39,154
I said, "go ahead, but I think
it's really dangerous."
644
00:31:39,178 --> 00:31:42,358
Abbie was one
of the first people
645
00:31:42,382 --> 00:31:45,417
that I knew that couldn't
get laid at Plato's.
646
00:31:46,886 --> 00:31:49,632
I probably wouldn't have gone
as many times as I did,
647
00:31:49,656 --> 00:31:52,100
but friends from California
kept asking me
648
00:31:52,124 --> 00:31:53,736
to walk them in.
649
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:55,921
I was wondering, do you get
a lot of curiosity seekers,
650
00:31:55,945 --> 00:31:57,690
people that just like
to go and watch?
651
00:31:57,714 --> 00:31:59,959
- Yes, voyeurs, definitely.
- Like me.
652
00:31:59,983 --> 00:32:02,294
Yes, there's no pressure,
there's no obligation
653
00:32:02,318 --> 00:32:04,463
and no commitment to do
anything at our club.
654
00:32:04,487 --> 00:32:06,899
And I'm positive it's the
same way at Larry's club.
655
00:32:06,923 --> 00:32:09,584
I come for...
656
00:32:09,608 --> 00:32:12,271
sex, good conversation,
657
00:32:12,295 --> 00:32:14,262
intellect.
658
00:32:16,516 --> 00:32:19,318
The only rule, actually,
in the entire club was no.
659
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,131
If somebody said no,
that was it.
660
00:32:23,155 --> 00:32:25,334
But if they allowed it,
anything went.
661
00:32:25,358 --> 00:32:28,754
Females first.
They set the rule.
662
00:32:28,778 --> 00:32:31,257
If they want to be touched,
that's fine.
663
00:32:31,281 --> 00:32:33,959
They don't want to be touched,
they're not gonna be touched.
664
00:32:33,983 --> 00:32:35,823
If she wants to walk around
with her top off...
665
00:32:38,388 --> 00:32:42,067
she walks around with
her top off. That was it.
666
00:32:42,091 --> 00:32:44,820
I think at Plato's it was
kind of interesting that women
667
00:32:44,844 --> 00:32:47,956
were really in a position
to be assertive,
668
00:32:47,980 --> 00:32:50,960
to approach men for sex,
669
00:32:50,984 --> 00:32:53,195
to kind of try out a lot
of the things
670
00:32:53,219 --> 00:32:55,931
that we had been
on the receiving end of.
671
00:32:55,955 --> 00:32:59,318
It was yummy. Why let
them have all the pleasure?
672
00:32:59,342 --> 00:33:02,822
Why even pretend that you
didn't feel good about it
673
00:33:02,846 --> 00:33:05,881
and you didn't have a good time
when you were sexually involved?
674
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:10,545
The whole thing with Plato's is
675
00:33:10,569 --> 00:33:12,781
that you would walk
into this space,
676
00:33:12,805 --> 00:33:15,917
and whether or not you had sex
with anyone was really not the point.
677
00:33:15,941 --> 00:33:18,387
The point was is that
everybody there
678
00:33:18,411 --> 00:33:21,256
was willing to be nude,
679
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,576
available maybe for sex
680
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:26,395
and open.
681
00:33:26,419 --> 00:33:29,347
Sex with another man
is a fantasy of mine.
682
00:33:29,371 --> 00:33:31,950
I'm someone else.
It's an ego trip.
683
00:33:31,974 --> 00:33:34,319
I think that's exactly
what it is. It's an ego trip
684
00:33:34,343 --> 00:33:37,273
having some other man, other than
my husband, telling me "you're beautiful.
685
00:33:37,297 --> 00:33:40,192
You're good in bed."
all this, you know?
686
00:33:40,216 --> 00:33:42,161
It's really a fantasy for me.
687
00:33:42,185 --> 00:33:44,413
And it also felt like
you had a secret,
688
00:33:44,437 --> 00:33:46,281
that you had a secret world
689
00:33:46,305 --> 00:33:48,784
that most of the people
who were either going to work
690
00:33:48,808 --> 00:33:51,053
or just going about
their business in the city
691
00:33:51,077 --> 00:33:53,555
that they didn't know
what you had experienced.
692
00:33:53,579 --> 00:33:56,675
Again, it's not just sex.
It's not going in there
693
00:33:56,699 --> 00:33:59,444
and say, "I'm going in there
'cause I just want to grab somebody
694
00:33:59,468 --> 00:34:01,480
and I wanna..."
695
00:34:01,504 --> 00:34:03,382
Can I say certain words?
Okay.
696
00:34:03,406 --> 00:34:04,883
"get laid."
697
00:34:04,907 --> 00:34:07,659
I was a social worker in 1978.
698
00:34:09,162 --> 00:34:12,664
But I had good evenings
after my social work.
699
00:34:14,633 --> 00:34:16,862
♪ Oh, how happy ♪
700
00:34:16,886 --> 00:34:20,132
♪ you have made me ♪
701
00:34:20,156 --> 00:34:22,901
♪ oh, how happy ♪
702
00:34:22,925 --> 00:34:25,137
♪ you have made me ♪
703
00:34:25,161 --> 00:34:27,740
♪ I have kissed your lips ♪
704
00:34:27,764 --> 00:34:29,708
♪ a thousand times... ♪
705
00:34:29,732 --> 00:34:32,227
I remember once, this couple...
706
00:34:32,251 --> 00:34:35,464
I'm sure they've been thrown out
of every swingers club in the world
707
00:34:35,488 --> 00:34:38,700
because they were so large.
They had to weigh 300 lbs each.
708
00:34:38,724 --> 00:34:41,820
And they were jitterbugging.
They were dancing.
709
00:34:41,844 --> 00:34:45,190
They had on their towels.
They had to have double towels
710
00:34:45,214 --> 00:34:47,926
around them. And the
towels, of course, fell off.
711
00:34:47,950 --> 00:34:50,896
And then nobody gave
a doo-doo-caca.
712
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,999
But what happened was...
It was when they stomped,
713
00:34:54,023 --> 00:34:57,636
they were shaking the...
The... the...
714
00:34:57,660 --> 00:35:00,238
The Platters for the DJ
because they weighed so much.
715
00:35:00,262 --> 00:35:02,608
I mean, they were shaking
the whole damn floor.
716
00:35:02,632 --> 00:35:04,342
But it was... nobody cared.
717
00:35:04,366 --> 00:35:06,445
It was really very very nice.
718
00:35:06,469 --> 00:35:08,781
This was
Larry Levenson's castle.
719
00:35:08,805 --> 00:35:12,785
Plato's Retreat was the way
that Larry could
720
00:35:12,809 --> 00:35:15,721
embrace everybody and... and...
721
00:35:15,745 --> 00:35:18,790
Exude his generosity,
his bounty.
722
00:35:18,814 --> 00:35:21,760
Family togetherness today at
a place called Plato's Retreat.
723
00:35:21,784 --> 00:35:25,114
This afternoon the owner held
an open house there for children.
724
00:35:25,138 --> 00:35:28,317
In most cases it was a
family affair at Plato's today...
725
00:35:28,341 --> 00:35:30,702
The first time I actually went
726
00:35:30,726 --> 00:35:32,187
to the club,
the club was closed.
727
00:35:32,211 --> 00:35:34,840
My father used to run,
like, holiday parties...
728
00:35:34,864 --> 00:35:36,942
Memorial Day, Labor Day.
729
00:35:36,966 --> 00:35:40,512
He would actually rent the big
bus, have it parked at my high school.
730
00:35:40,536 --> 00:35:42,781
I would invite 40
of my best friends.
731
00:35:42,805 --> 00:35:45,550
- Do you mind that your mother comes here?
- No, I don't care.
732
00:35:45,574 --> 00:35:49,071
He had a disco
and there was a game room there.
733
00:35:49,095 --> 00:35:52,174
Everything was the same as if it
was open, except there was no nudity
734
00:35:52,198 --> 00:35:53,842
or no sex.
It was a bunch of kids.
735
00:35:53,866 --> 00:35:56,428
That's when we
started understanding
736
00:35:56,452 --> 00:35:59,597
what everything was about.
737
00:35:59,621 --> 00:36:02,317
He used to be called... what?
King of Swing.
738
00:36:02,341 --> 00:36:05,687
Yeah, that's right. He
was called King of Swing.
739
00:36:05,711 --> 00:36:07,423
♪ At Plato's Retreat... ♪
740
00:36:07,447 --> 00:36:09,625
Larry, let us
into your heart a minute.
741
00:36:09,649 --> 00:36:12,444
A lot of people
are saying Larry Levenson,
742
00:36:12,468 --> 00:36:14,312
a lot of people say sleaze.
743
00:36:14,336 --> 00:36:17,716
I heard the President's speech
the other night. He talked about truth,
744
00:36:17,740 --> 00:36:20,552
service, sacrifice,
the American dream.
745
00:36:20,576 --> 00:36:23,822
And then we see in this country a
disintegration of the American family...
746
00:36:23,846 --> 00:36:26,892
That's what you're really telling
us. That's what Plato's Retreat
747
00:36:26,916 --> 00:36:29,161
- is about... or monogamy is dead.
- Oh no.
748
00:36:29,185 --> 00:36:30,795
- No!
- I'm saying that...
749
00:36:30,819 --> 00:36:33,399
This is a preservation
in a sense, Stanley.
750
00:36:33,423 --> 00:36:35,117
Don't you realize
how many men say
751
00:36:35,141 --> 00:36:37,453
"I'm going out
with the boys tonight,"
752
00:36:37,477 --> 00:36:39,488
- And they cheat and they lie?
- The question is
753
00:36:39,512 --> 00:36:41,213
why aren't you in jail?
754
00:36:42,582 --> 00:36:44,960
We're here at
the New York Aquarium now.
755
00:36:44,984 --> 00:36:49,898
- Watching orca Shamu
do his thing.
756
00:36:49,922 --> 00:36:52,317
Larry, you know, I've never
really gotten a chance to talk to you.
757
00:36:52,341 --> 00:36:55,193
Why don't you play with my ass
and tell me your philosophy of life?
758
00:36:56,479 --> 00:36:58,757
Whoo!
759
00:36:58,781 --> 00:37:02,428
- Oh my god, he's doing it.
- Larry got involved with younger women,
760
00:37:02,452 --> 00:37:06,431
wanted to hang out with these
women that took him for his money...
761
00:37:06,455 --> 00:37:08,634
The money he didn't have
762
00:37:08,658 --> 00:37:11,003
and the drugs he did have.
763
00:37:11,027 --> 00:37:13,956
Larry was boring
because he thought
764
00:37:13,980 --> 00:37:16,024
his whole world was sex.
765
00:37:16,048 --> 00:37:19,027
His world was genitalia.
766
00:37:19,051 --> 00:37:21,263
Again, he never read a book.
767
00:37:21,287 --> 00:37:25,300
He never had a thought. It
was all about him as a legend.
768
00:37:25,324 --> 00:37:28,587
He really thought
that when it came to swinging
769
00:37:28,611 --> 00:37:32,257
he was... everyone looked at him
as "The King" literally.
770
00:37:32,281 --> 00:37:34,860
We got people from Fort Lauderdale.
We got people from California.
771
00:37:34,884 --> 00:37:38,480
We got people from Paris,
France, coming to Plato's. They fly in.
772
00:37:38,504 --> 00:37:40,816
We're the eighth wonder
of the world. Okay?
773
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,218
I think it's different, but
I don't think it's immoral.
774
00:37:43,242 --> 00:37:46,154
This is the biggest thing to hit
New York city since the World's Fair.
775
00:37:46,178 --> 00:37:47,212
And it is.
776
00:37:52,635 --> 00:37:55,346
The interesting thing
about Larry was
777
00:37:55,370 --> 00:37:57,549
The guy was getting social
security checks.
778
00:37:57,573 --> 00:37:59,284
He didn't have any money,
779
00:37:59,308 --> 00:38:02,287
yet he was able
to borrow $150,000.
780
00:38:02,311 --> 00:38:05,046
Where does a guy get $150,000?
781
00:38:10,336 --> 00:38:12,114
He was Colonel Sanders
782
00:38:12,138 --> 00:38:14,383
and he had to do
his little step...
783
00:38:14,407 --> 00:38:16,368
Step-and-fix-it routine.
784
00:38:16,392 --> 00:38:19,221
Is it your view we're gonna
have Plato's Retreats...
785
00:38:19,245 --> 00:38:21,723
It's gonna be part of
Oshkosh, Wisconsin, too someday?
786
00:38:21,747 --> 00:38:26,484
Within the next three months there will be
four more Plato's Retreats around the country.
787
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:33,718
Larry started to believe
the bullshit.
788
00:38:33,742 --> 00:38:36,721
I bullshit all the time
when I'm interviewing.
789
00:38:36,745 --> 00:38:41,026
Larry did too, but Larry
exaggerated the importance.
790
00:38:41,050 --> 00:38:43,561
I always argued,
"It's just fucking."
791
00:38:43,585 --> 00:38:46,398
What is fucking?
It's friction.
792
00:38:46,422 --> 00:38:49,317
You believe in a free society?
793
00:38:49,341 --> 00:38:51,787
A free society where people
can just have a good time
794
00:38:51,811 --> 00:38:55,180
and enjoy themselves the way they
want to, without hurting anybody else.
795
00:38:56,849 --> 00:38:58,827
It's a devastating therapy.
796
00:38:58,851 --> 00:39:01,169
- But it works for them.
- Is it for them?
797
00:39:05,742 --> 00:39:08,971
I saw a fight between a couple
there at Plato's once
798
00:39:08,995 --> 00:39:11,973
where the husband had found out
799
00:39:11,997 --> 00:39:15,811
that his wife had
mended the pants
800
00:39:15,835 --> 00:39:18,147
for a man who was there.
801
00:39:18,171 --> 00:39:20,715
And in fact
they'd had sex many times,
802
00:39:20,739 --> 00:39:24,019
but it was this little personal
touch that showed affection
803
00:39:24,043 --> 00:39:25,988
that made the husband insane.
804
00:39:26,012 --> 00:39:28,757
I could never bring somebody
special, somebody I cared about there.
805
00:39:28,781 --> 00:39:32,160
I couldn't handle my wife or my
girlfriend being with somebody else.
806
00:39:32,184 --> 00:39:34,496
And me sitting and watching?
807
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,849
You really did see
that sometimes
808
00:39:37,873 --> 00:39:41,920
that what they came out for
bit them in the behind.
809
00:39:41,944 --> 00:39:44,923
They got more than what
they really bargained for.
810
00:39:44,947 --> 00:39:47,242
If I wanted to have an affair
with a man or sleep with a man
811
00:39:47,266 --> 00:39:50,795
that I felt attractive,
I can do it.
812
00:39:50,819 --> 00:39:52,364
And Michael knows about it.
813
00:39:52,388 --> 00:39:54,072
It's like dual infidelity.
814
00:39:57,143 --> 00:40:00,622
Do you think Larry is faithful
to you out of Plato's Retreat?
815
00:40:00,646 --> 00:40:02,708
For example, is he with
other women, do you think?
816
00:40:02,732 --> 00:40:04,542
- Yes, very definitely.
- How do you know?
817
00:40:04,566 --> 00:40:06,034
- I don't have time.
- Trust.
818
00:40:07,686 --> 00:40:09,832
I believe Mary...
819
00:40:09,856 --> 00:40:12,357
Always had feelings for Larry.
820
00:40:13,893 --> 00:40:16,939
I think her whole life
was wrapped around him,
821
00:40:16,963 --> 00:40:19,241
wrapped around the lifestyle.
822
00:40:19,265 --> 00:40:23,545
Most people look at Plato's
as the new sexual lifestyle
823
00:40:23,569 --> 00:40:24,946
of the 21st century.
824
00:40:24,970 --> 00:40:26,765
Honestly what most people feel...
825
00:40:26,789 --> 00:40:28,433
I know this is
another judgment...
826
00:40:28,457 --> 00:40:31,370
They feel something's
gone wrong here.
827
00:40:31,394 --> 00:40:33,171
Well, maybe something has.
828
00:40:33,195 --> 00:40:36,859
Maybe every marriage in this country
has a little something wrong with it.
829
00:40:36,883 --> 00:40:39,650
She knew the people.
She knew the crowd.
830
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:43,198
And I think, like anything else,
831
00:40:43,222 --> 00:40:46,134
too much of something
832
00:40:46,158 --> 00:40:48,203
could freak you out.
833
00:40:48,227 --> 00:40:50,805
There was no Mary room.
There was no...
834
00:40:50,829 --> 00:40:53,575
fancy room where Mary could
sit up there and be queen
835
00:40:53,599 --> 00:40:55,544
and men would come
and court her.
836
00:40:55,568 --> 00:40:58,703
They seemed to have a
respectful relationship for a time.
837
00:41:01,674 --> 00:41:03,986
I don't have much more
to add about that.
838
00:41:04,010 --> 00:41:05,921
No, I don't remember
much more... same.
839
00:41:05,945 --> 00:41:07,589
- Are you married?
- No, uh...
840
00:41:07,613 --> 00:41:09,391
- We were... I was...
- Are you married?
841
00:41:09,415 --> 00:41:11,527
In strictly
monogamous relationships.
842
00:41:11,551 --> 00:41:13,128
- In a sense...
- You don't hear me.
843
00:41:13,152 --> 00:41:14,863
In a sense, David,
we are married
844
00:41:14,887 --> 00:41:17,098
because I intend to spend
the rest of my life with Larry
845
00:41:17,122 --> 00:41:19,300
whether he likes it
or not, but, uh...
846
00:41:19,324 --> 00:41:21,927
- But technically no?
- Technically no, we're not.
847
00:41:24,162 --> 00:41:26,040
What is the address
of the new Plato's
848
00:41:26,064 --> 00:41:27,975
and what is the opening date?
849
00:41:27,999 --> 00:41:30,996
The grand opening will be December
5th, on a Friday night at 9:00 P.M.
850
00:41:31,020 --> 00:41:33,170
That's of this year, of course.
851
00:41:37,943 --> 00:41:40,872
When the 34th street
location opened,
852
00:41:40,896 --> 00:41:42,508
it was hopping.
853
00:41:42,532 --> 00:41:44,142
This is the matt room.
854
00:41:44,166 --> 00:41:46,778
This is a place where you get
20, 30 couples in here at one time.
855
00:41:46,802 --> 00:41:49,631
You must be undressed to
come in here. It's a beautiful sight.
856
00:41:49,655 --> 00:41:53,552
It was located directly
across from McDonald's.
857
00:41:53,576 --> 00:41:57,662
And people used to say it had
become the McDonald's of sex.
858
00:42:05,738 --> 00:42:07,983
I was this normal
housewife person.
859
00:42:08,007 --> 00:42:10,541
My husband left, his
girlfriend was having a baby.
860
00:42:13,045 --> 00:42:16,508
And you meet different people. I was
working at the movie theater in the village.
861
00:42:16,532 --> 00:42:18,877
I was selling the tickets
to "Rocky Horror."
862
00:42:18,901 --> 00:42:21,746
And the first time I went
to Plato's, it seemed people...
863
00:42:21,770 --> 00:42:24,850
Like actually doing
something in the open,
864
00:42:24,874 --> 00:42:27,308
you just... you don't
believe what you saw.
865
00:42:32,347 --> 00:42:34,876
Because it was like
turning a page in a magazine
866
00:42:34,900 --> 00:42:36,778
and you're sitting there
867
00:42:36,802 --> 00:42:39,231
and then you make up your mind.
868
00:42:39,255 --> 00:42:41,549
You know, you're either
into it or you're not.
869
00:42:41,573 --> 00:42:43,274
And I was into it.
870
00:42:47,246 --> 00:42:50,025
One time I was standing there
by the ladies' room
871
00:42:50,049 --> 00:42:52,427
in the back and a
young girl came up to me,
872
00:42:52,451 --> 00:42:55,998
and she said to me,
"are you outrageous?"
873
00:42:56,022 --> 00:42:59,367
And I said, "yes, I am." and with
that I put my hand on her breast.
874
00:42:59,391 --> 00:43:01,636
She said, "perhaps you'd
like to join us?"
875
00:43:01,660 --> 00:43:03,839
I said, "oh,
thank you very much"
876
00:43:03,863 --> 00:43:06,765
and I was invited to go in this
room with seven other ladies.
877
00:43:10,036 --> 00:43:12,814
Another time I was there
with a young gentleman
878
00:43:12,838 --> 00:43:15,750
and he knew this couple:
879
00:43:15,774 --> 00:43:18,887
The lady was Chinese, the
husband was a white gentleman.
880
00:43:18,911 --> 00:43:21,540
And he said to me, "You want
to do something with them?
881
00:43:21,564 --> 00:43:24,108
The husband doesn't do anything.
He just sits in the corner.
882
00:43:24,132 --> 00:43:26,445
We could be with the lady,
the three of us."
883
00:43:26,469 --> 00:43:28,880
And I said okay.
884
00:43:28,904 --> 00:43:31,806
And the husband just
sat there in the corner.
885
00:43:33,158 --> 00:43:36,021
Like touching
his wife's shoulder,
886
00:43:36,045 --> 00:43:38,212
but not joining in.
887
00:43:39,431 --> 00:43:42,644
I was going to be
President of the P.T.A.
888
00:43:42,668 --> 00:43:46,148
What do you want out of your life
that you're not getting from Mary?
889
00:43:46,172 --> 00:43:48,833
That I am not getting from
Mary? There is no man in the world
890
00:43:48,857 --> 00:43:50,702
that can say that
his woman gives him
891
00:43:50,726 --> 00:43:53,071
every need that he has...
That there is to have.
892
00:43:53,095 --> 00:43:55,690
I want as much as I can possibly
have in this lifetime.
893
00:43:55,714 --> 00:43:57,959
And that's what I'm doing.
I'm enjoying myself,
894
00:43:57,983 --> 00:43:59,995
I'm happy
and that's the bottom line.
895
00:44:00,019 --> 00:44:03,248
One of his constant refrains
whenever he was interviewed
896
00:44:03,272 --> 00:44:05,016
or talked to anybody was
897
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:08,453
swinging and Plato's will
not save a bad marriage.
898
00:44:08,477 --> 00:44:12,023
It's something extra you do
in a great marriage for fun.
899
00:44:12,047 --> 00:44:15,193
As swinging was explained to me
by him when I was a kid
900
00:44:15,217 --> 00:44:17,228
was: There is no jealousy.
901
00:44:17,252 --> 00:44:21,299
You know? Swinging is
a thing where couples are
902
00:44:21,323 --> 00:44:23,468
in a relationship
with each other.
903
00:44:23,492 --> 00:44:26,337
Okay? They have
feelings for each other
904
00:44:26,361 --> 00:44:28,940
as if non-swingers do.
905
00:44:28,964 --> 00:44:30,775
But the only difference is
906
00:44:30,799 --> 00:44:33,044
that when they're
with someone else,
907
00:44:33,068 --> 00:44:35,436
it's just sex.
There's no feelings.
908
00:44:37,657 --> 00:44:40,402
I never saw him
going around with Mary.
909
00:44:40,426 --> 00:44:43,605
I never saw them having sex
with other couples.
910
00:44:43,629 --> 00:44:45,791
It was always Larry.
911
00:44:45,815 --> 00:44:47,842
Do you have relationships
with other men there?
912
00:44:47,866 --> 00:44:50,144
- Occasionally, yes.
- Does he know about it?
913
00:44:50,168 --> 00:44:52,080
Yes.
914
00:44:52,104 --> 00:44:54,866
- Do you countenance it?
- I think it's fantastic.
915
00:44:54,890 --> 00:44:57,235
Mary would be having
a lot of men.
916
00:44:57,259 --> 00:45:00,605
You weren't really supposed to have
a gangbang just out on the main floor.
917
00:45:00,629 --> 00:45:04,459
You were supposed to go somewhere,
and Larry might speak to Mary about it,
918
00:45:04,483 --> 00:45:07,562
and then he'd go off and...
Ohhh... you know,
919
00:45:07,586 --> 00:45:10,465
and say, "Mary's upset."
920
00:45:10,489 --> 00:45:14,168
We'd say, "Mary doesn't look upset.
Mary looks like she's having a good time."
921
00:45:14,192 --> 00:45:15,893
"No, Mary's upset."
922
00:45:18,214 --> 00:45:20,191
She was losing Larry,
923
00:45:20,215 --> 00:45:24,662
not just to the lifestyle, but to
one particular woman or another.
924
00:45:24,686 --> 00:45:27,331
Do you really believe that you
can make love to a person one time
925
00:45:27,355 --> 00:45:29,835
and fall in love with them?
I don't think it can happen.
926
00:45:29,859 --> 00:45:31,736
I really don't.
I've never seen it happen.
927
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:34,439
He was there just to have sex.
928
00:45:34,463 --> 00:45:38,800
The whole thing was how many
women he could get.
929
00:45:40,352 --> 00:45:43,131
She wasn't having it
and I don't blame her.
930
00:45:43,155 --> 00:45:48,202
So she went on with this affair
with the chauffeur.
931
00:45:48,226 --> 00:45:50,221
Mary and Larry were... were...
932
00:45:50,245 --> 00:45:52,940
He was starting
to tell her to stay home,
933
00:45:52,964 --> 00:45:55,910
and the chauffeur knew
both of them
934
00:45:55,934 --> 00:45:59,013
because he used to drive
both of them to Plato's.
935
00:45:59,037 --> 00:46:01,116
It ended badly.
936
00:46:01,140 --> 00:46:03,318
They wanted to kill each other.
937
00:46:03,342 --> 00:46:05,653
The chauffeur was
in love with Mary.
938
00:46:05,677 --> 00:46:07,755
Larry was in love with Mary.
939
00:46:07,779 --> 00:46:12,160
Mary was in love with the chauffeur...
it was this big nasty triangle.
940
00:46:12,184 --> 00:46:14,713
- Larry would send Mary home with Ron.
- Yeah.
941
00:46:14,737 --> 00:46:16,938
So maybe one thing
led to another.
942
00:46:18,006 --> 00:46:20,485
I think in the end
943
00:46:20,509 --> 00:46:22,487
he...
944
00:46:22,511 --> 00:46:24,456
The chauffeur had Larry
945
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:26,891
kidnapped, beaten to a pulp,
946
00:46:26,915 --> 00:46:29,193
sent... put in the hospital
947
00:46:29,217 --> 00:46:32,096
in an effort to end it
in his favor.
948
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:34,398
That's what I believe happened.
949
00:46:34,422 --> 00:46:37,219
- I never seen a guy that
was beat... - So beat up.
950
00:46:37,243 --> 00:46:39,861
- I mean... - His face
was like out to here.
951
00:46:43,548 --> 00:46:46,527
I think Larry Levenson
wound up in the hospital
952
00:46:46,551 --> 00:46:50,464
in Queens stemming
from this conflict
953
00:46:50,488 --> 00:46:52,901
between him, Mary
and the chauffeur.
954
00:46:52,925 --> 00:46:56,421
After the kidnapping, Mary
came by the club a couple of times.
955
00:46:56,445 --> 00:46:59,390
You know, she seemed
basically out of it.
956
00:46:59,414 --> 00:47:02,994
You know, she was older and at one
point she might have been the queen,
957
00:47:03,018 --> 00:47:04,552
but she definitely wasn't now.
958
00:47:13,495 --> 00:47:15,830
She almost wound up
on the street.
959
00:47:17,199 --> 00:47:19,210
She was institutionalized,
I believe,
960
00:47:19,234 --> 00:47:20,878
at Bellevue for a while
961
00:47:20,902 --> 00:47:23,237
and she did have a breakdown.
962
00:47:24,406 --> 00:47:27,385
She was really a nice woman.
Nice lady.
963
00:47:27,409 --> 00:47:29,721
Maybe they made up that story
that it was this guy
964
00:47:29,745 --> 00:47:31,723
- to stay away from the wiseguys.
- Ron.
965
00:47:31,747 --> 00:47:33,225
We don't know.
966
00:47:33,249 --> 00:47:35,382
Why it happened, we never knew.
967
00:47:39,487 --> 00:47:42,317
But even then Larry was running
around, like, in a wheelchair
968
00:47:42,341 --> 00:47:45,052
and he was perfectly fine. He
was saying, "Aw, it's nothing."
969
00:47:45,076 --> 00:47:47,088
I'll be fine. I'll be
walking." and he was.
970
00:47:47,112 --> 00:47:49,824
He was, like,
smiling through it all.
971
00:47:49,848 --> 00:47:53,762
Plato's Retreat is
an unlicensed club
972
00:47:53,786 --> 00:47:57,182
- for swinging couples, right?
- We have a charter.
973
00:47:57,206 --> 00:47:59,918
In approximately July of 1979,
974
00:47:59,942 --> 00:48:02,470
there had been some
newspaper article
975
00:48:02,494 --> 00:48:05,323
wherein Larry Levenson had
976
00:48:05,347 --> 00:48:07,358
stated and boasted that,
977
00:48:07,382 --> 00:48:10,194
"We don't pay taxes
for Plato's Retreat Inc."
978
00:48:10,218 --> 00:48:12,229
We are definitely
a non-profit corporation.
979
00:48:12,253 --> 00:48:15,333
- Now wait a minute, Larry. What do you mean a non-profit?
- I'm telling you.
980
00:48:15,357 --> 00:48:18,703
Two gentlemen appeared
981
00:48:18,727 --> 00:48:21,205
9:00 in the morning.
I'm half asleep.
982
00:48:21,229 --> 00:48:25,276
And they says, "We came
here to see the books."
983
00:48:25,300 --> 00:48:27,635
So I gave them the books.
984
00:48:29,988 --> 00:48:32,306
I didn't know they were
from the Internal Revenue.
985
00:48:35,377 --> 00:48:38,222
And they find out they got
a gold mine in front of them,
986
00:48:38,246 --> 00:48:41,476
that these people have been
cheating their income tax
987
00:48:41,500 --> 00:48:42,993
for three years.
988
00:48:43,017 --> 00:48:46,497
In one year I think
they claimed only $300
989
00:48:46,521 --> 00:48:49,700
of taxable income
and paid zero tax.
990
00:48:49,724 --> 00:48:52,587
Ann Grippo reentered
the business room.
991
00:48:52,611 --> 00:48:56,524
She looked over our shoulder
and was peering intently.
992
00:48:56,548 --> 00:48:58,960
She just blurted out
voluntarily,
993
00:48:58,984 --> 00:49:00,862
"we're dead."
994
00:49:00,886 --> 00:49:03,014
I tried to take
the books away from them.
995
00:49:03,038 --> 00:49:05,550
- Yeah?
- And I did, I took the books.
996
00:49:05,574 --> 00:49:08,185
They didn't keep them. They
weren't allowed to keep them.
997
00:49:08,209 --> 00:49:09,554
- Correct.
- I took them.
998
00:49:09,578 --> 00:49:11,522
- But now they know
that they have... - Wait.
999
00:49:11,546 --> 00:49:13,858
- So now you got the books back in your hand.
- Yeah.
1000
00:49:13,882 --> 00:49:16,744
- Did you call Larry?
- When they came in that night I told them what happened.
1001
00:49:16,768 --> 00:49:19,013
- You didn't do nothing till that night?
- No, till that night.
1002
00:49:19,037 --> 00:49:22,650
Hy said to me, "You know, I
covered our tracks here for three years.
1003
00:49:22,674 --> 00:49:24,386
Now we're dead."
1004
00:49:24,410 --> 00:49:27,755
There was nothing
I could say or do
1005
00:49:27,779 --> 00:49:30,024
except that,
"hey, I'm sorry."
1006
00:49:30,048 --> 00:49:33,577
When they came home that night, they
packed their bags and they were gone.
1007
00:49:33,601 --> 00:49:37,215
They were so terrified that
they were gonna get whacked.
1008
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:41,119
I didn't hear from them again...
1009
00:49:41,143 --> 00:49:42,887
It's funny.
I laugh because
1010
00:49:42,911 --> 00:49:45,423
when I saw them again
it was on TV.
1011
00:49:45,447 --> 00:49:47,408
Come on up here, Grippos.
1012
00:49:47,432 --> 00:49:49,277
Charlie and Ann Grippo.
1013
00:49:49,301 --> 00:49:52,263
Welcome. What did you yell, Charlie,
when you were running up here?
1014
00:49:52,287 --> 00:49:55,000
- We're coming!
- We're coming and we'll get it right
1015
00:49:55,024 --> 00:49:57,035
if it takes us all night.
1016
00:49:57,059 --> 00:50:00,838
He went onto some kind
of quiz show in Vegas.
1017
00:50:00,862 --> 00:50:03,091
"Las Vegas Gambit."
1018
00:50:03,115 --> 00:50:04,692
- You're from where?
- New York City.
1019
00:50:04,716 --> 00:50:06,660
- On vacation?
- Yes.
1020
00:50:06,684 --> 00:50:08,980
I don't think we're sitting
there five minutes.
1021
00:50:09,004 --> 00:50:11,315
Yeah, just about
five minutes we heard...
1022
00:50:11,339 --> 00:50:13,257
We get two cards
and it's blackjack.
1023
00:50:14,993 --> 00:50:17,989
- And you get $1,000.
- And we win $1200.
1024
00:50:18,013 --> 00:50:19,547
Or $1,000.
She jumps up...
1025
00:50:23,585 --> 00:50:26,270
We're gonna send you
the tape. Funny as hell.
1026
00:50:27,572 --> 00:50:28,973
Hysterical.
1027
00:50:29,975 --> 00:50:32,454
My baby.
Okay? Awww.
1028
00:50:32,478 --> 00:50:34,339
Baby, baby.
1029
00:50:34,363 --> 00:50:36,424
And I thought to myself,
1030
00:50:36,448 --> 00:50:39,160
"these guys are running
from the mob and here they are
1031
00:50:39,184 --> 00:50:42,063
advertising who they..."
1032
00:50:42,087 --> 00:50:45,200
- We got a trip to the Super Bowl.
- A washer-dryer.
1033
00:50:45,224 --> 00:50:47,168
And what about the V.C...
Not a V.C.R., that...
1034
00:50:47,192 --> 00:50:49,187
- A Betamax.
- The Betamax.
1035
00:50:49,211 --> 00:50:51,762
- We won a load of stuff.
- A load of stuff.
1036
00:51:00,305 --> 00:51:03,818
It was a trial.
On trial was Larry,
1037
00:51:03,842 --> 00:51:06,787
Hy, Frank,
1038
00:51:06,811 --> 00:51:08,362
the accountant.
1039
00:51:11,917 --> 00:51:15,997
Larry took the stand
and tried to explain
1040
00:51:16,021 --> 00:51:17,698
the circumstances.
1041
00:51:17,722 --> 00:51:20,785
He believed that he was
in a... a non-profit,
1042
00:51:20,809 --> 00:51:25,023
not-for-profit club
and that he truly believed that.
1043
00:51:25,047 --> 00:51:27,742
Larry Levenson wasn't
on the stand.
1044
00:51:27,766 --> 00:51:29,611
He was on the stage.
1045
00:51:29,635 --> 00:51:32,613
Everything was a joke to him,
or so it appeared.
1046
00:51:32,637 --> 00:51:36,017
I think the jury, as I recall,
was laughing at him.
1047
00:51:36,041 --> 00:51:38,119
The trial was completed.
The jury deliberated
1048
00:51:38,143 --> 00:51:40,654
for approximately five
or six hours, I believe.
1049
00:51:40,678 --> 00:51:43,180
And came back
with guilty verdicts.
1050
00:51:49,888 --> 00:51:53,801
Larry Levenson, Frank Pernice, Hy
Gordon received eight years plus a fine.
1051
00:51:53,825 --> 00:51:56,287
I think an eight-year
jail sentence at that time
1052
00:51:56,311 --> 00:51:59,257
for this type of a tax evasion
was something of a record.
1053
00:51:59,281 --> 00:52:02,860
What fucked him up was
he was stealing cash.
1054
00:52:02,884 --> 00:52:04,895
And he did the dumbest
thing of all.
1055
00:52:04,919 --> 00:52:07,232
If any of you ever do cash
or have your own company,
1056
00:52:07,256 --> 00:52:09,567
you don't do it
in front of employees,
1057
00:52:09,591 --> 00:52:13,387
'cause the guy who's working for
you or the gal who's working for you,
1058
00:52:13,411 --> 00:52:17,391
you're gonna fire them or yell at
them and they're gonna bring you down.
1059
00:52:17,415 --> 00:52:19,560
A lot of cash...
1060
00:52:19,584 --> 00:52:21,795
Just like Studio 54!
1061
00:52:21,819 --> 00:52:23,831
I don't believe
he was stealing money,
1062
00:52:23,855 --> 00:52:27,168
I don't believe that he was
creating books that...
1063
00:52:27,192 --> 00:52:29,170
Didn't exist.
I mean...
1064
00:52:29,194 --> 00:52:34,041
Double books? Larry
was being King of Swing.
1065
00:52:34,065 --> 00:52:36,210
The demeanor at
the defense table changed.
1066
00:52:36,234 --> 00:52:39,647
All of a sudden there was silence
upon the announcement of the verdict.
1067
00:52:39,671 --> 00:52:43,418
There was no more affable,
class-clown Larry Levenson.
1068
00:52:43,442 --> 00:52:45,375
It was total silence.
1069
00:52:47,379 --> 00:52:50,975
If you break the law, there's
1070
00:52:50,999 --> 00:52:54,935
"If ya can't affords the time,
ya don't commits the crime."
1071
00:52:57,439 --> 00:52:58,805
True.
1072
00:53:00,241 --> 00:53:03,120
♪ Happiness, happiness ♪
1073
00:53:03,144 --> 00:53:06,139
♪ the greatest gift
that I possess ♪
1074
00:53:06,163 --> 00:53:09,258
♪ I thank the lord
that I've been blessed... ♪
1075
00:53:09,282 --> 00:53:11,877
Some of you may have been wondering
whatever happened to Larry Levenson?
1076
00:53:11,901 --> 00:53:14,647
He's here in Allenwood,
which is a federal penitentiary.
1077
00:53:14,671 --> 00:53:16,683
It's considered
a level-one prison.
1078
00:53:16,707 --> 00:53:20,102
In the trunk we'd have
clothes, suitcases,
1079
00:53:20,126 --> 00:53:22,138
golf clubs, a tennis racket.
1080
00:53:22,162 --> 00:53:24,741
We thought it was a place
where you basically just...
1081
00:53:24,765 --> 00:53:26,776
You hung out
but you couldn't leave.
1082
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:29,795
The lack of sex... very
rarely discussed or anything.
1083
00:53:29,819 --> 00:53:33,065
Everybody takes care of that
situation by themselves, you know?
1084
00:53:33,089 --> 00:53:35,101
We were in constant
communication.
1085
00:53:35,125 --> 00:53:37,771
- And he never complained about it, right?
- Right.
1086
00:53:37,795 --> 00:53:40,440
♪ The greatest gift
that I possess ♪
1087
00:53:40,464 --> 00:53:42,709
"Larry Levenson, you're okay,
1088
00:53:42,733 --> 00:53:44,244
even though you've gone away.
1089
00:53:44,268 --> 00:53:46,546
You got into an awful mess.
1090
00:53:46,570 --> 00:53:49,282
You just can't fuck
with the I.R.S."
1091
00:53:49,306 --> 00:53:51,901
Plato's without Larry was
like Easter
1092
00:53:51,925 --> 00:53:53,970
at the Vatican without the Pope.
1093
00:53:53,994 --> 00:53:57,963
The Pope had this tracheotomy
and the Christians are running amok.
1094
00:54:07,574 --> 00:54:10,053
Without Larry,
Plato's took a big dive.
1095
00:54:10,077 --> 00:54:12,088
And it wasn't Plato's
anymore. It wasn't...
1096
00:54:12,112 --> 00:54:13,923
It wasn't even
wholesome anymore.
1097
00:54:13,947 --> 00:54:16,960
You know? Because without
that benevolent heart behind it,
1098
00:54:16,984 --> 00:54:20,086
it was just a tacky
swingers club, you know?
1099
00:54:21,688 --> 00:54:24,918
It required a lot more people
to fill the place.
1100
00:54:24,942 --> 00:54:28,722
So they had special parties...
sometimes they would have kinky nights.
1101
00:54:28,746 --> 00:54:31,774
I, uh, use the...
Uh, the Pussy Propulsion
1102
00:54:31,798 --> 00:54:33,949
which is the basis
for all space travel.
1103
00:54:35,352 --> 00:54:38,582
Belle du jour presents
an S&M costume ball
1104
00:54:38,606 --> 00:54:41,067
and dinner party.
Do they have to be in costume?
1105
00:54:41,091 --> 00:54:43,359
Not necessarily,
but it would be fun.
1106
00:54:46,146 --> 00:54:49,731
I'm here every Tuesday
and it starts at 8:15.
1107
00:54:50,784 --> 00:54:53,112
And I fulfill
all their fantasies
1108
00:54:53,136 --> 00:54:55,905
in S&M...
1109
00:54:56,957 --> 00:54:59,436
and all erotic fantasies.
1110
00:54:59,460 --> 00:55:01,170
Sounds good to me.
1111
00:55:01,194 --> 00:55:03,813
I'm Danny the wonder pony.
I give women pony rides.
1112
00:55:05,215 --> 00:55:07,126
I dance in a fashion
that makes them
1113
00:55:07,150 --> 00:55:09,161
look and feel like
they're riding a pony,
1114
00:55:09,185 --> 00:55:11,380
Except to the music.
1115
00:55:11,404 --> 00:55:14,523
And if you've ever watched a
woman ride a horse, it's very erotic.
1116
00:55:19,429 --> 00:55:23,349
He had foxy boxing, which was
girls fighting each other.
1117
00:55:25,252 --> 00:55:27,964
Okay, stick around.
Next match coming soon.
1118
00:55:27,988 --> 00:55:30,433
The amusing part of that
is in between each round
1119
00:55:30,457 --> 00:55:32,758
the girls would throw up
in a bucket.
1120
00:55:34,127 --> 00:55:35,795
There were brothers and sisters.
1121
00:55:37,932 --> 00:55:41,411
Those things weren't as
taboo as they are now.
1122
00:55:41,435 --> 00:55:43,446
♪ If you like what we're doing
when we're doing what we're doing ♪
1123
00:55:43,470 --> 00:55:45,682
♪ come on, clap your hands ♪
1124
00:55:45,706 --> 00:55:47,784
♪ if you like what we're doing
when we're doing what we're doing ♪
1125
00:55:47,808 --> 00:55:49,508
♪ hey-yyyy! ♪
1126
00:55:51,695 --> 00:55:54,006
I remember they had
girls up there...
1127
00:55:54,030 --> 00:55:56,359
I think they were
porno stars... performing,
1128
00:55:56,383 --> 00:55:58,044
doing musical feats.
1129
00:55:58,068 --> 00:56:00,969
♪ Party party ♪
1130
00:56:02,322 --> 00:56:05,418
♪ party party... ♪
1131
00:56:05,442 --> 00:56:07,687
And there were men
in the audience
1132
00:56:07,711 --> 00:56:10,456
who were masturbating...
1133
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:12,381
If my memory serves me correct.
1134
00:56:15,852 --> 00:56:17,597
Don't you, on certain levels,
1135
00:56:17,621 --> 00:56:19,782
feel that swinging
sort of has shot its load?
1136
00:56:19,806 --> 00:56:24,053
That it's a tired phenomena that
dates back more to the '60s and '70s?
1137
00:56:24,077 --> 00:56:27,607
- And for the '80s nobody really gives a shit?
- No, on the contrary.
1138
00:56:27,631 --> 00:56:31,077
I think swinging is just now
really coming into its own.
1139
00:56:31,101 --> 00:56:34,047
While Larry was in jail
he did these little
1140
00:56:34,071 --> 00:56:35,765
weekly announcements
that were really cute.
1141
00:56:35,789 --> 00:56:37,183
What about your job?
1142
00:56:37,207 --> 00:56:40,637
- Did you say you worked in the sewer system?
- Yeah.
1143
00:56:40,661 --> 00:56:42,805
We would set up a tape recorder
1144
00:56:42,829 --> 00:56:44,974
that was attached
to the telephone.
1145
00:56:44,998 --> 00:56:47,343
He wants to be heard
1146
00:56:47,367 --> 00:56:49,212
from prison or no.
1147
00:56:49,236 --> 00:56:51,331
- What do you do?
- I test the...
1148
00:56:51,355 --> 00:56:53,165
The garbage, what?
Do you eat it?
1149
00:56:53,189 --> 00:56:56,001
Yeah, the waste and
everything. No, the amoeba eats it.
1150
00:56:56,025 --> 00:56:59,038
He had senators there with
him. He had judges there with him.
1151
00:56:59,062 --> 00:57:02,708
He had lawyers there with him.
It was not a terrible place to be.
1152
00:57:02,732 --> 00:57:05,928
When that water goes into the
river, you can actually drink it.
1153
00:57:05,952 --> 00:57:09,037
♪ Happiness! ♪
1154
00:57:13,276 --> 00:57:16,439
I got a phone call from a friend of mine
who says, "you're not going to believe this.
1155
00:57:16,463 --> 00:57:19,342
I just heard on the radio
that the King of Swing
1156
00:57:19,366 --> 00:57:21,143
is home from prison."
1157
00:57:21,167 --> 00:57:23,229
I just want to say now,
ladies and gentlemen,
1158
00:57:23,253 --> 00:57:25,465
that I am more than proud
to present
1159
00:57:25,489 --> 00:57:29,719
for the first time
back here in 32 months,
1160
00:57:29,743 --> 00:57:32,705
the man responsible
for creating Plato's Retreat,
1161
00:57:32,729 --> 00:57:35,141
ladies and gentlemen,
the owner, the creator
1162
00:57:35,165 --> 00:57:38,244
of Plato's Retreat,
the King of Swing,
1163
00:57:38,268 --> 00:57:42,248
Mr. Larry Levenson.
Come right out, gang.
1164
00:57:42,272 --> 00:57:45,835
Okay, Larry Levenson,
skinnier, his dick is bigger.
1165
00:57:45,859 --> 00:57:49,622
Here he is, Larry, back from
32 months of homosexuality.
1166
00:57:49,646 --> 00:57:52,792
What's it like to be here at the
place, the dream you created?
1167
00:57:52,816 --> 00:57:55,862
You know, the person who
doesn't know how to answer you.
1168
00:57:55,886 --> 00:57:58,547
- You're such a slob.
- We're here with his lovely mother Renee.
1169
00:57:58,571 --> 00:58:02,452
Renee, how do you feel that your son broke
out of prison and is here at Plato's today?
1170
00:58:02,476 --> 00:58:06,422
I should have expected something like this
from you, Al. I'm not the least bit surprised.
1171
00:58:06,446 --> 00:58:10,126
It's not true you called the parole
board and said, "keep the bastard"?
1172
00:58:10,150 --> 00:58:12,795
No, you did that, honey.
You were a little mixed up.
1173
00:58:12,819 --> 00:58:15,531
♪ And you try to show ♪
1174
00:58:15,555 --> 00:58:18,734
♪ your love for me. ♪
1175
00:58:18,758 --> 00:58:20,870
I'm thrilled to no end right now
1176
00:58:20,894 --> 00:58:25,024
as I look around and see
you friendly faces,
1177
00:58:25,048 --> 00:58:29,051
faces of old friends
and soon-to-be new friends.
1178
00:58:31,788 --> 00:58:35,251
To you members that
frequent Plato's,
1179
00:58:35,275 --> 00:58:39,538
our club is much more
than a sexual haven.
1180
00:58:39,562 --> 00:58:42,147
We are the closest thing
to a family here.
1181
00:58:50,857 --> 00:58:54,236
I'm gonna come back and I'm
gonna make this club better than ever,
1182
00:58:54,260 --> 00:58:57,490
and we're gonna have more fun than
ever and it's just gonna be beautiful.
1183
00:58:57,514 --> 00:58:59,959
Larry, we welcome you back
and congratulations
1184
00:58:59,983 --> 00:59:02,011
on completing the 32-month
Allenwood diet.
1185
00:59:02,035 --> 00:59:06,015
Everything hits a peak, so
there was a peak for sexuality.
1186
00:59:06,039 --> 00:59:07,884
There was a peak for disco.
1187
00:59:07,908 --> 00:59:11,754
♪ Karma karma karma karma
karma chameleon... ♪
1188
00:59:11,778 --> 00:59:15,625
The club was in a decline
and so was Larry.
1189
00:59:15,649 --> 00:59:17,727
Were we distressed about it?
1190
00:59:17,751 --> 00:59:19,095
Yes.
1191
00:59:19,119 --> 00:59:21,897
Come down and fulfill your
most fantastic fantasies
1192
00:59:21,921 --> 00:59:24,601
and stimulate
your wildest dreams.
1193
00:59:24,625 --> 00:59:26,669
♪ Oh yes, it's ladies' night ♪
1194
00:59:26,693 --> 00:59:28,904
♪ and the feeling's
right... ♪
1195
00:59:28,928 --> 00:59:32,024
Is it going to be ladies' night
every Monday, do you know?
1196
00:59:32,048 --> 00:59:35,295
Ladies' night, 6:00-9:00;
then 9:00 the men come in.
1197
00:59:35,319 --> 00:59:37,863
They would have at Plato's
singles nights
1198
00:59:37,887 --> 00:59:41,100
to kind of introduce people
who never swung before.
1199
00:59:41,124 --> 00:59:42,602
♪ Oh yes, it's ladies' night ♪
1200
00:59:42,626 --> 00:59:44,520
♪ oh, what a night,
oh, what a night... ♪
1201
00:59:44,544 --> 00:59:46,338
There'd be stripper
after stripper
1202
00:59:46,362 --> 00:59:48,190
and the women are getting
wilder and wilder.
1203
00:59:48,214 --> 00:59:51,427
Then 9:00, or a couple
of hours later,
1204
00:59:51,451 --> 00:59:53,730
the men... the single men
would be allowed in.
1205
00:59:53,754 --> 00:59:56,399
And these guys were horny fucks.
1206
00:59:56,423 --> 00:59:59,518
Then what they'd do though,
they'd have to have a lot more girls
1207
00:59:59,542 --> 01:00:01,577
that would be like girls
that would be hired.
1208
01:00:05,782 --> 01:00:07,994
But you couldn't
necessarily separate
1209
01:00:08,018 --> 01:00:09,895
the prostitutes from the wives
1210
01:00:09,919 --> 01:00:12,147
because the wives were
kind of doing themselves up
1211
01:00:12,171 --> 01:00:13,616
like prostitutes often.
1212
01:00:13,640 --> 01:00:15,567
There was coke everywhere.
1213
01:00:15,591 --> 01:00:18,304
And everybody used it
to stay awake,
1214
01:00:18,328 --> 01:00:20,757
to keep going, for this,
that and the other thing,
1215
01:00:20,781 --> 01:00:21,924
to feel better.
1216
01:00:21,948 --> 01:00:24,727
Stay up, keep going,
1217
01:00:24,751 --> 01:00:26,662
Don't stop.
1218
01:00:26,686 --> 01:00:28,721
I'm gonna have fun.
1219
01:00:31,191 --> 01:00:34,937
Prostitution was the tail
that wagged the dog.
1220
01:00:34,961 --> 01:00:38,474
Because I believe
40%-50% of the girls there
1221
01:00:38,498 --> 01:00:41,710
every night,
with their, quote, date,
1222
01:00:41,734 --> 01:00:44,613
were hookers.
And I know that to be a fact
1223
01:00:44,637 --> 01:00:46,782
because the hookers
advertised in "screw."
1224
01:00:46,806 --> 01:00:49,985
I remember I met
an African-American woman
1225
01:00:50,009 --> 01:00:52,705
and we went into the back and
we went into one of the rooms
1226
01:00:52,729 --> 01:00:55,708
and the next thing she stuck her hand
out and she wanted money from me.
1227
01:00:55,732 --> 01:00:57,977
And I just didn't
have it, you know?
1228
01:00:58,001 --> 01:01:01,214
She said, "Well, I'm sorry."
1229
01:01:01,238 --> 01:01:04,300
There was just this...
A sense of impending doom.
1230
01:01:04,324 --> 01:01:06,803
But I don't know how much
we talked about it.
1231
01:01:06,827 --> 01:01:09,038
It lost the warmth.
1232
01:01:09,062 --> 01:01:11,074
And that wasn't, I think,
just the steam
1233
01:01:11,098 --> 01:01:13,842
rising off of all that water
they had going in there.
1234
01:01:13,866 --> 01:01:17,413
It was moving towards
that point in the '80s
1235
01:01:17,437 --> 01:01:20,439
when sex was terrifying.
1236
01:01:32,752 --> 01:01:36,499
♪ I've just closed
my eyes again... ♪
1237
01:01:36,523 --> 01:01:39,469
AIDS reduces the number
of helper cells in the blood.
1238
01:01:39,493 --> 01:01:42,838
Therefore the body has no way
of either detecting
1239
01:01:42,862 --> 01:01:45,992
or attacking certain infections.
1240
01:01:46,016 --> 01:01:51,470
♪ Driver, take away
my worries of today... ♪
1241
01:01:52,839 --> 01:01:56,685
When AIDS first hit, nobody
even knew what it was yet.
1242
01:01:56,709 --> 01:01:59,122
No one quite knew how
it was transmitted.
1243
01:01:59,146 --> 01:02:02,492
- No one knew how to have safe sex.
- ♪ dream Weaver ♪
1244
01:02:02,516 --> 01:02:07,512
♪ I believe you can get me
through the night... ♪
1245
01:02:07,536 --> 01:02:10,983
The people who cared about their
lives stopped going to sex clubs.
1246
01:02:11,007 --> 01:02:14,670
And so you got a more
hardcore, self-destructive
1247
01:02:14,694 --> 01:02:18,613
- group of people.
- ♪ Dream Weaver. ♪
1248
01:02:22,936 --> 01:02:25,881
All this talk about AIDS,
aren't you worried about it?
1249
01:02:25,905 --> 01:02:27,883
Being with so many
different men?
1250
01:02:27,907 --> 01:02:31,237
Larry, I've never heard of a
woman that has contacted AIDS
1251
01:02:31,261 --> 01:02:34,006
through sexual intercourse.
1252
01:02:34,030 --> 01:02:37,476
I went from one extreme
to the other,
1253
01:02:37,500 --> 01:02:41,113
saying "this is not something
you get a shot for,
1254
01:02:41,137 --> 01:02:44,516
or take a pill for.
This is your life.
1255
01:02:44,540 --> 01:02:49,294
And you need to rethink
your priorities in life."-
1256
01:02:50,830 --> 01:02:53,576
And I say god was kind
and I was spared.
1257
01:02:53,600 --> 01:02:56,179
Some other people
were not that lucky.
1258
01:02:56,203 --> 01:03:00,967
That 73% of the AIDS cases
are in homosexuals,
1259
01:03:00,991 --> 01:03:03,302
this is put out by the State
of New York, Dr. Axelrod.
1260
01:03:03,326 --> 01:03:06,038
Wait, let me... let me finish.
1261
01:03:06,062 --> 01:03:07,940
Sir... sir, let me finish.
1262
01:03:07,964 --> 01:03:12,428
It was like a ghost town.
For about 30 days,
1263
01:03:12,452 --> 01:03:14,163
it was like nobody.
1264
01:03:14,187 --> 01:03:16,582
Everybody was just scared.
They didn't even know
1265
01:03:16,606 --> 01:03:18,384
if you could get it
mouth to mouth.
1266
01:03:18,408 --> 01:03:20,703
The St. Marks Bathhouse
was shut down
1267
01:03:20,727 --> 01:03:23,989
after undercover inspectors
reported that they had observed
1268
01:03:24,013 --> 01:03:27,109
49 acts of high-risk
sexual activity
1269
01:03:27,133 --> 01:03:30,012
involving more than 80 people.
1270
01:03:30,036 --> 01:03:33,165
Only medical science
1271
01:03:33,189 --> 01:03:35,551
can ever truly defeat AIDS.
1272
01:03:35,575 --> 01:03:38,871
I think that Koch,
who I admired,
1273
01:03:38,895 --> 01:03:41,808
wanted to bust down
on the gay clubs.
1274
01:03:41,832 --> 01:03:45,317
To make things even,
he busted down on Plato's.
1275
01:03:47,487 --> 01:03:50,699
They said that AIDS did
go through Plato's Retreat.
1276
01:03:50,723 --> 01:03:53,136
No, they came down
and interviewed me.
1277
01:03:53,160 --> 01:03:54,904
And that's all they did.
1278
01:03:54,928 --> 01:03:58,574
And we found out since
that with the smell of chlorine
1279
01:03:58,598 --> 01:04:00,743
in the air at Plato's Retreat,
1280
01:04:00,767 --> 01:04:03,412
the AIDS virus does not
have a chance.
1281
01:04:03,436 --> 01:04:05,381
It just happens to be
a factual thing.
1282
01:04:05,405 --> 01:04:08,083
One of the key parts
of the effort would be
1283
01:04:08,107 --> 01:04:10,619
to collect evidence,
which if it was necessary,
1284
01:04:10,643 --> 01:04:13,322
if it became necessary
to seek to close a place down,
1285
01:04:13,346 --> 01:04:15,842
this is the kind of evidence
that would hold up in court.
1286
01:04:15,866 --> 01:04:18,393
Larry had signs posted.
1287
01:04:18,417 --> 01:04:21,880
And he has his security that are
walking around actually telling people,
1288
01:04:21,904 --> 01:04:24,816
"Wait till this little thing
is over with. But right now,
1289
01:04:24,840 --> 01:04:27,553
we can't allow anal sex, we
can't allow oral sex on a guy."
1290
01:04:27,577 --> 01:04:31,256
The law prohibits anal sex
and fellatio.
1291
01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:34,493
- Excuse me?
- You can have sexual intercourse
1292
01:04:34,517 --> 01:04:36,351
legally on Plato's premises.
1293
01:04:37,854 --> 01:04:39,064
Hello?
1294
01:04:39,088 --> 01:04:42,067
Some of the inspectors
were so...
1295
01:04:42,091 --> 01:04:45,604
uh, overwhelmed...
1296
01:04:45,628 --> 01:04:48,491
Distressed by what they saw
1297
01:04:48,515 --> 01:04:51,744
that they needed
actually counseling
1298
01:04:51,768 --> 01:04:53,779
and counseling was provided.
1299
01:04:53,803 --> 01:04:56,081
"Government of the people,
for the people
1300
01:04:56,105 --> 01:04:58,617
and by the people should
not perish from this earth."
1301
01:04:58,641 --> 01:05:01,153
Now Mr. Koch is trying
to tell me that the people
1302
01:05:01,177 --> 01:05:03,355
have nothing to do
with government.
1303
01:05:03,379 --> 01:05:06,515
It's like a war.
You're fighting the city.
1304
01:05:12,855 --> 01:05:15,201
I want to talk to
the fat guy on the right.
1305
01:05:15,225 --> 01:05:17,553
There are two fat guys here.
Which one?
1306
01:05:17,577 --> 01:05:19,688
On the right?
Go ahead, fat guy.
1307
01:05:19,712 --> 01:05:22,290
- What do you have to say?
- Do you suck?
1308
01:05:22,314 --> 01:05:23,826
Oh, you're a moron.
1309
01:05:23,850 --> 01:05:26,395
Good evening. Plato's
Retreat is the latest casualty
1310
01:05:26,419 --> 01:05:28,821
in New York's war
on dangerous sex.
1311
01:05:35,127 --> 01:05:37,606
Inspectors would come in
and they described what to us
1312
01:05:37,630 --> 01:05:40,209
seemed like prostitution
activities.
1313
01:05:40,233 --> 01:05:43,312
In its prime, thousands
of heterosexual couples
1314
01:05:43,336 --> 01:05:45,314
flocked to Plato's Retreat.
1315
01:05:45,338 --> 01:05:48,317
But the party came to a halt
at the well-known nightclub.
1316
01:05:48,341 --> 01:05:50,770
Minutes before its
scheduled opening,
1317
01:05:50,794 --> 01:05:54,289
city officials closed the venue
on charges of prostitution.
1318
01:05:54,313 --> 01:05:56,692
The city knows as
everybody else knows
1319
01:05:56,716 --> 01:05:59,061
we never allowed prostitution
on our premises,
1320
01:05:59,085 --> 01:06:00,963
and I always say
that we never will.
1321
01:06:00,987 --> 01:06:02,514
So we went in there
1322
01:06:02,538 --> 01:06:04,817
and the judge signed
the preliminary injunction.
1323
01:06:04,841 --> 01:06:07,153
It went to an appellate court
and the appellate court
1324
01:06:07,177 --> 01:06:09,244
changed the temporary
closing order.
1325
01:06:11,247 --> 01:06:13,492
- Hello, you're on the air.
- Yeah, hi.
1326
01:06:13,516 --> 01:06:16,561
Um, can you tell me what the
status of the club is right now?
1327
01:06:16,585 --> 01:06:21,100
And, um... is it still closed or
what are they doing at this point?
1328
01:06:21,124 --> 01:06:23,402
- At Plato's, you mean, sir?
- Yes, sir.
1329
01:06:23,426 --> 01:06:25,360
Plato's Retreat is now open.
1330
01:06:26,962 --> 01:06:29,942
The place is reopened and we
send inspectors in there again.
1331
01:06:29,966 --> 01:06:32,945
And within a short period of time,
the inspectors are coming back
1332
01:06:32,969 --> 01:06:35,380
and they're saying,
"forget about prostitution now.
1333
01:06:35,404 --> 01:06:37,349
We're seeing high-risk
sexual activities."
1334
01:06:37,373 --> 01:06:40,719
Starting tonight
for the next year,
1335
01:06:40,743 --> 01:06:44,089
all profits made
by Plato's Retreat,
1336
01:06:44,113 --> 01:06:47,826
will be donated
to AIDS research.
1337
01:06:47,850 --> 01:06:50,579
Two weeks later,
New Year's Eve, boof!
1338
01:06:50,603 --> 01:06:52,214
We get closed for good.
1339
01:06:52,238 --> 01:06:54,617
Tonight the city closed
Plato's Retreat, that notorious
1340
01:06:54,641 --> 01:06:56,942
heterosexual sex club
on Manhattan's West Side.
1341
01:06:59,179 --> 01:07:01,123
Plato's Retreat is
more than just a club.
1342
01:07:01,147 --> 01:07:03,859
It's an institution. It's a
monument to sexual freedom.
1343
01:07:03,883 --> 01:07:05,628
And they set us back 50 years.
1344
01:07:05,652 --> 01:07:08,363
Plato's was then closed
on December 31st.
1345
01:07:08,387 --> 01:07:11,389
And actually, it never
reopened after that.
1346
01:07:15,845 --> 01:07:19,909
I remember driving up at 7:30
and seeing the door padlocked
1347
01:07:19,933 --> 01:07:22,077
with the police tape on it.
1348
01:07:22,101 --> 01:07:23,412
And...
1349
01:07:23,436 --> 01:07:26,014
there was no notice, no nothing.
1350
01:07:26,038 --> 01:07:29,184
They didn't tell anyone that
we're going to be closing you down.
1351
01:07:29,208 --> 01:07:30,853
They just came
on New Year's Eve.
1352
01:07:30,877 --> 01:07:32,421
I think it was to spank them.
1353
01:07:32,445 --> 01:07:34,840
Larry's really really upset.
He's almost holding back tears.
1354
01:07:34,864 --> 01:07:37,509
You could see it. Because now he
knows that the city just crippled him
1355
01:07:37,533 --> 01:07:40,145
and he's looking at the future.
He goes, "I can't stay open, Ron.
1356
01:07:40,169 --> 01:07:42,881
The money I made from New Year's
Eve was going to keep me going with rent."
1357
01:07:42,905 --> 01:07:45,234
Rise and Fall
of the Roman Empire.
1358
01:07:45,258 --> 01:07:48,103
Everything fell apart:
All the connections,
1359
01:07:48,127 --> 01:07:50,405
the phone calls...
Everything stopped.
1360
01:07:50,429 --> 01:07:53,475
We have no
meeting ground anymore.
1361
01:07:53,499 --> 01:07:56,378
We have no home
for the family anymore.
1362
01:07:56,402 --> 01:07:59,181
So everybody takes off
to different areas.
1363
01:07:59,205 --> 01:08:01,851
Everybody goes back
to real life.
1364
01:08:01,875 --> 01:08:04,787
From what I could see,
most clubs in Manhattan
1365
01:08:04,811 --> 01:08:07,389
lasted a few years.
They'd be really hot,
1366
01:08:07,413 --> 01:08:10,859
maybe six, eight, 10 years
and then they'd close down.
1367
01:08:10,883 --> 01:08:12,951
And people were on
to the new club.
1368
01:08:15,521 --> 01:08:18,957
I think Plato's kind of died
a natural death actually.
1369
01:08:20,660 --> 01:08:23,672
It might have had a little help.
1370
01:08:23,696 --> 01:08:26,348
It was a different era then with
everything that was going on.
1371
01:08:27,750 --> 01:08:31,230
A place like that...
It wasn't going to last anyway.
1372
01:08:31,254 --> 01:08:33,288
A lot of people...
1373
01:08:34,657 --> 01:08:36,952
Just couldn't...
Don't like the lifestyle
1374
01:08:36,976 --> 01:08:38,620
so they put it down,
1375
01:08:38,644 --> 01:08:41,339
like our mayors
and our governors.
1376
01:08:41,363 --> 01:08:44,276
But meanwhile
they're the ones in here.
1377
01:08:44,300 --> 01:08:46,796
It was like, "We should
all sing 'Old Lang Sone'..."
1378
01:08:46,820 --> 01:08:48,463
"Old Lang..."
1379
01:08:48,487 --> 01:08:50,899
- "Syne." - Whatever.
"'Old Lang whatever.'"
1380
01:08:50,923 --> 01:08:53,485
After the club closed
1381
01:08:53,509 --> 01:08:56,822
I think that's when it
took him over completely.
1382
01:08:56,846 --> 01:09:00,492
I think that's when Larry really
1383
01:09:00,516 --> 01:09:03,295
fell into hard times...
1384
01:09:03,319 --> 01:09:05,954
No finances.
1385
01:09:08,440 --> 01:09:10,986
Tonight we're talking
with Larry Levenson.
1386
01:09:11,010 --> 01:09:14,023
Larry was the owner
of Plato's Retreat.
1387
01:09:14,047 --> 01:09:18,844
Plato's Retreat was the
largest swing club in New York.
1388
01:09:18,868 --> 01:09:22,564
He was the original
prototype swinger.
1389
01:09:22,588 --> 01:09:25,400
That was his life. That
was why he started the club.
1390
01:09:25,424 --> 01:09:28,537
And basically the club ended
because of that narcissism.
1391
01:09:28,561 --> 01:09:31,390
You start believing it and you
think you can do no wrong
1392
01:09:31,414 --> 01:09:33,392
and you're gonna
beat the system.
1393
01:09:33,416 --> 01:09:36,579
Larry was depressed. And I'd
visit him in his apartment in Brooklyn
1394
01:09:36,603 --> 01:09:38,414
and he'd be doing crack cocaine.
1395
01:09:38,438 --> 01:09:41,116
And he's sweating... "Larry,
you're sweating like a pig.
1396
01:09:41,140 --> 01:09:43,185
It doesn't look like
you're having fun."
1397
01:09:43,209 --> 01:09:46,338
He goes, "trust me. It's a nice
feeling and it takes away the pain."
1398
01:09:46,362 --> 01:09:49,125
He went to parents without
partners and he was enjoying that
1399
01:09:49,149 --> 01:09:50,993
and meeting lots
of different people.
1400
01:09:51,017 --> 01:09:53,629
And he did meet Marilyn there.
1401
01:09:53,653 --> 01:09:55,798
- I just got engaged last week.
- Mazel tov.
1402
01:09:55,822 --> 01:09:57,766
- A beautiful young lady, yeah.
- Mazel tov.
1403
01:09:57,790 --> 01:10:00,302
- Yeah, I'm very happy.
- And she's sweet woman.
1404
01:10:00,326 --> 01:10:02,604
She is wonderful.
And the whole point is
1405
01:10:02,628 --> 01:10:04,162
what do I want to do
with my life?
1406
01:10:10,402 --> 01:10:12,714
Don't know how long it was good.
1407
01:10:12,738 --> 01:10:17,519
I do remember one incident where
he asked me to go to the house
1408
01:10:17,543 --> 01:10:19,187
and pick up a check.
1409
01:10:19,211 --> 01:10:21,623
He got divorced again, so now...
1410
01:10:21,647 --> 01:10:24,826
now he's back to being single
and he's back in Brooklyn again.
1411
01:10:24,850 --> 01:10:26,979
Remember he was driving a cab?
1412
01:10:27,003 --> 01:10:29,448
He was driving a cab,
I remember that.
1413
01:10:29,472 --> 01:10:33,835
♪ I still get
that same old feeling ♪
1414
01:10:33,859 --> 01:10:36,605
♪ tearing at
this heart of mine... ♪
1415
01:10:36,629 --> 01:10:38,674
I hailed a yellow cab.
I got in.
1416
01:10:38,698 --> 01:10:42,812
And sometimes I have a habit
of looking at the hack license.
1417
01:10:42,836 --> 01:10:45,848
When my dad had the club,
he had all the friends.
1418
01:10:45,872 --> 01:10:48,216
Everybody wanted
to hang out with him.
1419
01:10:48,240 --> 01:10:51,053
Then when he didn't have
the club, they were gone.
1420
01:10:51,077 --> 01:10:53,272
I saw the name Larry Levenson.
1421
01:10:53,296 --> 01:10:56,475
And I kept saying,
"Larry Levenson, Larry Levenson?
1422
01:10:56,499 --> 01:10:58,810
That's the man
who owned Plato's."
1423
01:10:58,834 --> 01:11:02,180
You have to pick and choose
who your friends are.
1424
01:11:02,204 --> 01:11:06,608
And you have to stay grounded. I
think my dad was never grounded.
1425
01:11:10,864 --> 01:11:15,077
I thought that we were
a great family.
1426
01:11:15,101 --> 01:11:17,980
And I really believed, truly,
1427
01:11:18,004 --> 01:11:20,582
that we were a community.
1428
01:11:20,606 --> 01:11:23,819
But I guess I was mistaken.
1429
01:11:23,843 --> 01:11:26,822
It was me...
1430
01:11:26,846 --> 01:11:28,757
that felt that.
1431
01:11:28,781 --> 01:11:31,216
I was the king.
1432
01:11:32,485 --> 01:11:35,814
One day he invited us
to Brooklyn to see his house.
1433
01:11:35,838 --> 01:11:38,567
And he lived down
in the basement because...
1434
01:11:38,591 --> 01:11:41,202
The brick building,
he rented upstairs...
1435
01:11:41,226 --> 01:11:43,305
I guess the two floors.
1436
01:11:43,329 --> 01:11:47,142
And I was shocked the way he lives down
in the basement with cats and everything.
1437
01:11:47,166 --> 01:11:50,979
It both... my mind... how
could he live in a basement?
1438
01:11:51,003 --> 01:11:54,383
Then he took us out
for a nice lobster dinner.
1439
01:11:54,407 --> 01:11:56,618
He had just gone
through heart surgery.
1440
01:11:56,642 --> 01:12:00,055
He was in the hospital.
We were living down here.
1441
01:12:00,079 --> 01:12:03,825
He had had a heart attack. He
was in the intensive care unit.
1442
01:12:03,849 --> 01:12:06,694
I brought some flowers
for his nurses.
1443
01:12:06,718 --> 01:12:09,364
He seemed in good spirits.
1444
01:12:09,388 --> 01:12:11,683
When I heard that Larry Levenson
1445
01:12:11,707 --> 01:12:15,854
died from a heart attack and
that he'd become a cab driver
1446
01:12:15,878 --> 01:12:19,324
I just thought, "wow, that
was just so hard to reconcile
1447
01:12:19,348 --> 01:12:22,527
that the king of Plato's Retreat
1448
01:12:22,551 --> 01:12:26,364
Could end up like
a broken-down old hack."
1449
01:12:26,388 --> 01:12:28,967
I just remember getting a phone
call that Larry's passed away.
1450
01:12:28,991 --> 01:12:32,477
I was pretty miserable for quite a while.
It was one of the ones that really hurt.
1451
01:12:51,630 --> 01:12:54,559
When Larry started Plato's,
1452
01:12:54,583 --> 01:12:57,029
We were still
in that period where
1453
01:12:57,053 --> 01:12:59,898
sex wasn't just sex
and pleasure,
1454
01:12:59,922 --> 01:13:02,467
it was also about
kind of revolution,
1455
01:13:02,491 --> 01:13:04,469
a breaking with the past.
1456
01:13:04,493 --> 01:13:08,440
I think the only difference between
Larry and many men in our society
1457
01:13:08,464 --> 01:13:11,876
and culture is that Larry didn't
hesitate to talk about it
1458
01:13:11,900 --> 01:13:14,446
and tell the truth about it,
how he actually felt.
1459
01:13:14,470 --> 01:13:17,516
I wonder how many men
1460
01:13:17,540 --> 01:13:21,553
hide how they really
feel about sex.
1461
01:13:21,577 --> 01:13:24,656
Or how many men would have
the courage to say
1462
01:13:24,680 --> 01:13:27,292
"I want to do them all"?
1463
01:13:27,316 --> 01:13:30,295
Every time I drive by the club,
even to this day,
1464
01:13:30,319 --> 01:13:32,220
I still feel the magic.
1465
01:13:36,058 --> 01:13:38,253
Look at it, the lights
are still here.
1466
01:13:38,277 --> 01:13:40,422
Oh, there's disco lights
over there.
1467
01:13:40,446 --> 01:13:42,380
The sprinkler system was here.
1468
01:13:44,267 --> 01:13:47,746
There's our fan,
still up there to this day.
1469
01:13:47,770 --> 01:13:50,315
Whatever Frankie built,
it's still there.
1470
01:13:50,339 --> 01:13:54,185
So... amazing.
1471
01:13:54,209 --> 01:13:56,287
One thing about getting older
1472
01:13:56,311 --> 01:13:58,222
is that you don't want
to look back and say
1473
01:13:58,246 --> 01:14:00,959
"Wow, really I'm sorry
I didn't do that.
1474
01:14:00,983 --> 01:14:02,978
I really am sorry I missed that.
1475
01:14:03,002 --> 01:14:05,414
I really am sorry I didn't
take advantage of that."
1476
01:14:05,438 --> 01:14:08,417
I'm an old lady with no regrets,
1477
01:14:08,441 --> 01:14:09,718
because I'll tell you:
1478
01:14:09,742 --> 01:14:12,544
Those... that period was
very special.
1479
01:14:14,280 --> 01:14:18,009
It was the same routine
every night but different bodies.
1480
01:14:18,033 --> 01:14:19,668
Different sizes.
1481
01:14:21,771 --> 01:14:23,838
Tall, short...
1482
01:14:25,107 --> 01:14:27,085
It was, you know,
a sight to see...
1483
01:14:27,109 --> 01:14:29,188
Every night.
1484
01:14:29,212 --> 01:14:31,807
Somehow whenever anybody
1485
01:14:31,831 --> 01:14:35,210
discusses Plato's Retreat, they
do it with a smile on their face.
1486
01:14:35,234 --> 01:14:37,145
If anybody was there,
they're happy.
1487
01:14:37,169 --> 01:14:39,915
If anybody wasn't there,
they're only sorry
1488
01:14:39,939 --> 01:14:43,641
that they didn't get an
opportunity to go there and see it.
1489
01:14:45,177 --> 01:14:47,756
It was very exciting
to a lot of people.
1490
01:14:47,780 --> 01:14:50,258
And when we finally
caught up with it,
1491
01:14:50,282 --> 01:14:52,883
we were amused by it as well.
1492
01:14:55,671 --> 01:14:57,849
I'm... I'm really glad I went.
1493
01:14:57,873 --> 01:15:00,585
I'm glad to have the experience
of having gone.
1494
01:15:00,609 --> 01:15:03,455
Just as I'm glad
that I got to the top
1495
01:15:03,479 --> 01:15:05,714
of the World Trade Center once.
1496
01:15:08,718 --> 01:15:11,947
Even to today people say
things to me:
1497
01:15:11,971 --> 01:15:14,956
"I knew your father.
I remember your father."
1498
01:15:17,309 --> 01:15:20,372
Okay, some people,
they have no memories.
1499
01:15:20,396 --> 01:15:22,240
They had a boring normal...
1500
01:15:22,264 --> 01:15:25,877
Let's say everyday-straight
kind of life.
1501
01:15:25,901 --> 01:15:29,581
I've led a different kind
of life. I've had that life
1502
01:15:29,605 --> 01:15:31,272
and my life changed...
1503
01:15:32,858 --> 01:15:35,293
By going to Plato's...
1504
01:15:37,062 --> 01:15:39,308
by getting into open sex.
1505
01:15:39,332 --> 01:15:42,578
These are things that you never
thought you would ever do in life.
1506
01:15:42,602 --> 01:15:44,480
You didn't even think about it.
1507
01:15:44,504 --> 01:15:47,349
So a lot of people,
they don't have those memories.
1508
01:15:47,373 --> 01:15:51,443
I have those memories. I can
see the faces in front of me now.
1509
01:16:29,782 --> 01:16:32,393
It was good for me.
1510
01:16:32,417 --> 01:16:34,429
It was good for me.
1511
01:16:34,453 --> 01:16:37,398
It was great for me.
1512
01:16:37,422 --> 01:16:39,217
Is Larry still around,
by the way?
1513
01:16:39,241 --> 01:16:43,655
- Are you guys talking to Larry?
- He passed away in '99.
1514
01:16:43,679 --> 01:16:45,790
- He passed away?
- Yeah.
1515
01:16:45,814 --> 01:16:48,750
- He was only about 50.
- 62.
1516
01:16:49,951 --> 01:16:51,218
Wow.
1517
01:17:03,664 --> 01:17:06,510
♪ Oh, how happy ♪
1518
01:17:06,534 --> 01:17:09,180
♪ you have made me ♪
1519
01:17:09,204 --> 01:17:11,882
♪ oh, how happy ♪
1520
01:17:11,906 --> 01:17:14,218
♪ you have made me ♪
1521
01:17:14,242 --> 01:17:17,088
♪ I have kissed your lips ♪
1522
01:17:17,112 --> 01:17:19,757
♪ a thousand times ♪
1523
01:17:19,781 --> 01:17:22,593
♪ and more times
than I can count ♪
1524
01:17:22,617 --> 01:17:24,929
♪ I have called you mine ♪
1525
01:17:24,953 --> 01:17:26,063
♪ you have stood... ♪
1526
01:17:26,087 --> 01:17:28,165
I tried to hide the fact
1527
01:17:28,189 --> 01:17:30,500
That Larry Levenson
was my brother.
1528
01:17:30,524 --> 01:17:32,536
After all, my name
was Karen Posner.
1529
01:17:32,560 --> 01:17:35,372
It wasn't too difficult,
I thought, to keep it a secret.
1530
01:17:35,396 --> 01:17:38,542
But of course everybody knew because
of the car showing up at the house
1531
01:17:38,566 --> 01:17:42,079
and Larry marching into all
of our backyard barbecues.
1532
01:17:42,103 --> 01:17:44,749
I saw people getting down
1533
01:17:44,773 --> 01:17:48,152
in various stages.
Big deal.
1534
01:17:48,176 --> 01:17:50,837
What did you expect? Where
do you expect babies come from?
1535
01:17:50,861 --> 01:17:54,074
I wouldn't just take my clothes
off and just walk around like that.
1536
01:17:54,098 --> 01:17:56,766
You know?
Have I done anything there?
1537
01:17:58,736 --> 01:18:02,266
I really can't talk about that...
if I've ever done anything there.
1538
01:18:02,290 --> 01:18:05,886
What is the difference
between parsley and pussy?
1539
01:18:05,910 --> 01:18:08,555
He says, "What is
the difference?" I says,
1540
01:18:08,579 --> 01:18:10,613
"Well, who eats parsley?"
1541
01:18:12,950 --> 01:18:15,161
One of Larry's ideas
1542
01:18:15,185 --> 01:18:18,632
was that he seriously believed
1543
01:18:18,656 --> 01:18:22,436
that he could have sex
with every single woman
1544
01:18:22,460 --> 01:18:25,729
in New York and I was
going to help him do it.
1545
01:18:26,964 --> 01:18:29,310
What do you say
to something like that?
1546
01:18:29,334 --> 01:18:30,777
We laugh.
1547
01:18:30,801 --> 01:18:34,314
That's what keeps a
marriage going sometimes
1548
01:18:34,338 --> 01:18:36,116
is laughter.
1549
01:18:36,140 --> 01:18:38,251
I mean he makes me laugh,
I make him laugh.
1550
01:18:38,275 --> 01:18:41,087
- And now we have a new life.
- Uh uh uh!
1551
01:18:41,111 --> 01:18:42,723
Yeah, but now we got a new life.
1552
01:18:42,747 --> 01:18:44,691
- But uh uh uh.
- No, home.
1553
01:18:44,715 --> 01:18:46,960
Oh yeah.
Our poker life.
1554
01:18:46,984 --> 01:18:51,588
Now we can't wait to get
back to Vegas in December.
1555
01:18:53,290 --> 01:18:54,468
Go ahead.
What else?
1556
01:18:54,492 --> 01:18:56,020
♪ ...Made me ♪
1557
01:18:56,044 --> 01:18:58,522
♪ you have made me ♪
1558
01:18:58,546 --> 01:19:00,991
♪ you have made me ♪
1559
01:19:01,015 --> 01:19:03,350
♪ you have made me. ♪
1560
01:20:11,492 --> 01:20:12,492
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