Original subtitles

I wasn't going to do this interview.

It's it's very emotionally

draining. The experience was

horrible the first time, so.

To choose to go back and

relive those memories is

very difficult.

The man that I married, he

was good-looking and friendly,

kind and fun.

He was my Prince Charming. He was that

tall, dark and handsome guy that I dreamt

of as a little girl.

Seeing this picture on the front page of

the newspaper, I just, I was

just in disbelief that this was

my life and what it had all turned out to

be.

I met Richard in law school.

He was very outgoing and

friendly and enthusiastic,

and because I was so shy, I

was very much attracted to his outgoing

personality.

We started dating, and it was a pretty

intense relationship.

We'd been dating for about six months,

and he proposed on

Valentine's Day.

After we got married, he was

very persuasive in

convincing me that

I wanted to give up my career to

be a mom.

He had gotten a job with the DAS

office and made a name for

himself, was very successful, very good

attorney. I was a stay-at-home mom

now. We were in a

very affluent neighborhood.

We attended a local church

and were very much engaged

with activities with kids and

looked like a very normal

family.

But you weren't. No, we

were not normal at all.

Growing up, my dad and I were very

close. He really

played a large role in.

My life, that

really never stopped. I valued my dad's

opinion on things, and that

really made Rick

uncomfortable. He didn't

like that I was so close to my

family, and particularly my dad.

Hey, Rick. Great to see you, Dad.

Hi, Dad. Hi, honey.

He didn't like that my dad would give me

a hug when we went down to see him or put

his arm around me for a posed picture.

You, uh, taking good care of my baby,

Rick?Oh, I've taken great care of your

girl. Good. He thought that

that was all very inappropriate.

and that that should stop immediately.

He would start to talk to me when we

were in private, saying that something

was wrong with me. Why would you want

your dad to hug you?That was totally

inappropriate. What?The way he

grabbed you. You don't hug your daughter,

and you don't put your arm around your

daughter. I remember responding to him

that, well, we're a close family, we've

always hugged, but

he would get increasingly bothered

by it. I remember starting

to feel like maybe there's something

wrong with me. Why would I think this is

okay if he's saying it really is

inappropriate?The

relationship between Rick and my dad

gradually worsened,

and I think so often,

You don't see the red flags. You don't

see the warning signs because you don't

want to see them.

He wanted sex whenever he

demanded it, and I didn't have any

say in that. He

didn't want to come home to a soccer mom.

He wanted to come home to a wife.

What do you think about this?

He wanted me to just be in bed

having sex all the time. And what's wrong

with me?I should be wanting to have sex

all the time, too. Why don't you try it

on?I just put this on.

And it was a real power

struggle. I don't want to put it on.

Susan, put it on. That.

perhaps was one of those red flags that I

should have seen.

But growing up, I had always heard and

been told by my mom that marriage is hard

work and it requires compromise.

And so I thought that what was

going on in our relationship was

very normal. This was marriage.

The first time Rick

suggested that I'd been

sexually molested by my dad, I just

thought that he was crazy. Did he ever

touch you?What?He just went

on and on that I was

sexually repressed or

prudish because I was molested by

my father as a child. He's molested you,

hasn't he?I

remember reacting, No, I wasn't.

No, No he did not. That

just was not-- that was not true.

But I think it just really

incensed Rick that I had such a

close relationship with my dad.

It was like a light bulb went off with

him. I was the problem,

not him. He was trying to really make his

case to prove it to me so that I would

have to accept it as true, whether I

remembered it or not. No.

He just became obsessed and was

on a mission to convince me

that I had been molested,

and he was going to prove it to me.

It started with going through old photos.

Perfectly normal photos.

This photo, look at this.

Look at this right here. Yeah, my dad's

reading me a story. Look at the way he's

touching you. I'm sitting in his lap,

Rick. My dad just has his arm around me

and he would say, look at the look on his

face. He's he's looking at you in that

knowing way. Here.

It's a sleepover party. I

know, I knowYou think it's a sleepover

party. He focused on the

fact that a picture was taken of

girls sleeping. This isn't right. Who

takes pictures of girls like that?

We're just kids. And he would just

distort it to make his

case and convince me that I had been

molested. You have to remember

something. Think

this is this is crazy.

These memory sessions could

go for hours. We'd

go all night. The sun would

come up and I was so

tired. I said that

I had no memories of anything like that.

I I can't talk about this anymore.

If I'm not his partner, I'm partnering

with my dad. And so he'd start to

pull the weapons out. He had three

guns, he had a sword. And he was

in a crazed rage.

He had three guns, he had a sword,

and he picked up the sword and started

just wielding it around. And just

crazy, he was just enraged.

He would stand in the doorway,

blocking my exit from the room.

Don't you walk away from me when I'm

talking to you and just be very

threatening and scary.

So he was controlling me

before he ever hit me.

He was going to sue my

dad because he was deprived

of a a wife

with a healthy

sex appetite. I remember the dollar

amount was $1,000,000.

Everything just started to to close

in. He was there constantly.

Pretty soon calls were no longer allowed

and no one in the house was to answer the

phone ever. I

had been isolated from my

family. He's working

full time on building this case against

my dad. Building binders,

organizing family photos,

collecting paperwork, and getting books

that he's highlighted. He was

just immersed in this project.

Rick?And it

just got crazier and crazier as

time progressed.

I'm going to try this again.

He would take notes.

There he is touching you there. There he

is taking photos of you sleeping.

Well, let's do it together, why don't we?

And he would just go on

and on, hours and

hours, days on end. How

long do we have to do this before you

see what's clearly there?

Just wanting to talk about

details and details, and they were

details I didn't have answers to. Don't

remember any of it. Told you.

I was never molested by my father as a

child.

I do remember the first time that he

punched me in the stomach because that

was a punch. We were in the

bathroom and I was trying

to get out, but he was blocking the

the doorway and I there was

a small bathroom and I couldn't get away

from him and he just punched me

in the stomach.

And I remember

just feeling nauseous and

my wind was knocked out of me. I I

went back against the wall and then down

to the floor.

I was just so

struck by how shocked I

was that thatHe

punched me.

And after that, there were so many more

because he punched me in the face,

broke my nose, and dislocated my jaw,

and boxed my ears,

and punched me in the ribs.

And knew that he'd broken ribs and then

he punched in the same place as again. And

he was just very targeted

in his

inflicting pain.

And he said, you think that hurts?Just

wait till I hit it again.

You think it's broken?Just wait.

I tried to leave once. No, I know.

I know, but-- He called and

told me he's on his way home. He'd be

there in 20 minutes, and he was--

he was mad. But no,

if you would just let me explain. I was

scared to death. I was afraid to be

home when he got there.

OK, let's go. Come on. Come on, kids. Put

the coats on. Where are we going?Come on.

What's going on?So I just quickly tried

getting kids to the car so that we could

just go somewhere and be gone. But

Ryan wouldn't go. Come on. It's

gone. What's happening?I know. I know

I can't.

I felt so controlled and trapped by fear.

I just-- I didn't see any way out.

The kids were very much in fear, and

they were running as fast as they could.

Dad's mad and he's on his way home. Let's

hurry. Let's go. Let's get in the car.

All right, let's go. Come on. Where are

we going?They were pleading

with Ryan to come, too, so that we could

go faster. They were scared to death.

Ryan, let's go. We need to leave. Your

father's coming home.

He knows Dad's scary, but he he

also knows that you you have to appear to

be on Dad's side.

And he was afraid

to look like he was taking Mom's

side by leaving with me. And so I

just quickly tried getting kids to the

car so that we could just go somewhere

and be gone. Brian

wouldn't go.

And so I did. He

was my oldest at the time. He was 16

and he didn't feel like it was safe to

side with Mom and Dad was on his

way home. So I took the three kids

and I left and I left Brian there

and I didn't know what to

do.

I had to go back to the house. I was too

afraid to stay gone. So I

went home and Rick had never

even come home. So Ryan was there all

alone.

I just, I didn't see any way out.

I felt so controlled and trapped by fear.

I didn't want to leave because my kids

were still in the house. And I couldn't

leave with the kids. I I just felt

trapped. I couldn't figure out

a plan.

His personality, his ego, would

not stand for his wife leaving

him. No one was going to leave

Rick. And certainly no one was going

to take his children.

There's a war going on, a war

between good and evil.

He started saying, oh, she's got demons,

she's been possessed. So your

grandfather, he's in charge of a

satanic cult and has

your mother. Under his spell.

I don't know where the Satanic

cult idea came from,

but in addition to my

dad having been a child molester,

now he was this powerful guy in this

Satanic cult.

He was referring to my dad as a high

priest, and I had

ambitions of being the high priestess.

I'm going to do whatever I can to

break her of that spell.

He would drag me by my hair out and show

me to the kids and say, see, this is what

I'm beating out of your mother. He was

beating the demons out of me. Stop it!

The kids were silent.

They were just staring and said

nothing.

He was really trying to turn the kids

against me.

The kids very much believed this

cult story. Rick was

scary and very persuasive,

and he had all the power in the house.

I thought that

because he said my mom was possessed by a

demon, that maybe she could be. I was a

little scared of her for that reason.

I remember the first time that I ever

prayed was after he was

telling us that sort of stuff. I prayed

God just, you know, help mom, help,

you know, save her from that, save her

from what's going on inside of her. And

I remember my sister was

there watching me and she

she said that mom was crazy, didn't need

to pray for her. You can't.

Save Mom. You know that, right?

I believed it. I

was brainwashed into believing everything

my father said, that she was friends with

demons, that she spoke with them,

that her whole family was in this

cult. He made me

hate my mother, and

in my mind, I didn't know anything

different. He was telling me these

things, and I believed them because

I was a child believing my

father.

Because he was mounting this case against

my dad, people were

going to come to the house and

kill him.

Some Jehovah's Witnesses, women, came to

the door. Hi. Can I help you?You know,

we'd really love to introduce you to

Jehovah's Kingdom. Oh,

OK. I just said no, thank you. We're

we're good. We're not interested. Thanks

for coming by, though. All right. All

rightThank you. Take care now.

Soon as they left, Rick ran out with his

gun. Who was that?He was certain that

these women had been sent to the house by

my dad. Who

was it?I don't know.

He was going to run after them and kill

them.

No, thank you.

Who was it?Rick thought

these Jehovah's Witness women that came

to the door were part of my dad's

cult. He ran

outside and he was chasing him to kill

him. And I heard a pop.

He ran back in the house and fell down

onto the floor.

And he said, I shot

myself in the leg. I shot myself. My gun

went off. Ah

I'm just standing there, shocked, just

trying to figure out what happened. My

mom's holding my dad in in her

arms. My dad's freaking out. It was

the Satanists outside. They they shot me.

They want to kill me. I

was just at a loss for words when I heard

that. I but once again,

Dad wouldn't lie to me. They're trying to

kill your father. I believed fully

what my dad was telling me was true.

He said we weren't safe. There were

probably people positioned

everywhere.

He was tipping furniture over

to have it be positioned for gun

supports and barricading

doors and windows.

He was preparing the house

for this attack from this

cult.

He locked me in the bedroom, and

I was not to come out.

He couldn't lock the door from the

outside, but the

lock was fear.

He wore one of his guns in a

holster throughout the house, and he

kept the other pointed at me as we slept.

He told the kids that they were no longer

to talk to me or have any contact with

me. He was going to get them a new mom

and get rid of me.

It just felt like a matter of time before

he was going to kill me.

My biggest fear was that he would kill me

and then include the kids in

disposing of me.

We were in the back of the car, me and my

brother, and we had our paintball guns

and dad would tell us to have them aimed

at my mom. If she moves, a shooter with

the paintballs.

Mom is silent the whole time

and she's. Scared out of her

mind, we pull over

into this field and my dad

looks back at me and my brother and he's

just like, what do you think we should

do, boys?You think we should shoot her?

And he gets out of the car. He tells my

mom to follow him. They go walking off

into the field and I remember just

watching him as they slowly just go.

He's hitting her. And I remember he was

screaming at him, you know, you're you're

not on my side. Why aren't you helping

me?I'm

waiting for a loud bang to

go off. And I remember actually

saying to myself, this is a nightmare.

This This isn't real.

I was certain at that point that I was

going to be shot.

I was looking around to see if there was

some place to to crawl to

or somebody to scream out for help to.

And he held the gun to my head.

Rick.

And he said, are you ready to die?And I

remember the Lord's Prayer just going

through my head, and I just stood there

and I was waiting for him to shoot.

And he, for whatever reason,

decided that he still needed me around,

so he dragged me back to the car.

He decided toTake me to the

Sheriff's Department to confess

that I was a part of the plan to have

Rick killed.

The story had evolved to

where now I wasn't just a victim and

had been molested by my dad. Now I was a

molester. I had molested my own children.

Once I confessed to conspiring to kill my

husband and I've molested my children,

surely they're going to arrest me.

I wanted to be arrested because that

was the only plan I could come up with

to to get out of this.

You know, it wasn't a great plan, but it

was the only plan I had. I mean, I I just

wasn't going to last much longer. I

needed it to end.

So, officer, what I was trying to say

was... When we got there, a couple of

detectives took us into a room,

and Rick started to

explain what brought us

there. He's put out a statement that he

wants me dead. The detectives were

listening to all of this, and then they

said, OK, well, we need to have Susan

formally make her statement and record

it, and so we're going to ask you to step

out in the hall, Rick. It

was horrible. It was

so horrible.

And I couldn't say anything. I'm

so sorry. I'm so

sorry. She's involved in this

organization. Go ahead. Explain.

Susan, is that true what he's saying?

Everything he says is true.

Rick, would you step outside, please,

while I take our statement?

I knew Rick was sitting out in the hall,

and I did not feel safe. I wanted

to be arrested. I wanted to be

believed that I molested my children and

I need to be put in jail. I've been

abusing them for years.

So I tried really hard. I tried really

hard to tell the story and

and have it be believable.

My family was in a Satan church,

and I've been a Satan worshipper. I was I

was nervous and scared. I want to be

believed because I want to stay.

I don't want to be sent home with Rick.

He told me that I needed to take

accountability for

molesting my kids.

At the end, they said, OK, we don't feel

this is a safe environment for the

children. So while we've been talking to

you, we sent CPS by the house to pick up

the kids

and we're going to go ahead and let

you go. Please.

I said I'm not under arrest. You're

not, you're not going to put me in jail.

They said we're going to do some further

investigation and we'll be back in touch.

And they sent us on our way.

I was so fearful because now they're

sending me home with Rick. And Rick

was now mad because they had

gone and taken the kids.

I was scared to death.

Can we promise today that we're just

going to talk about things that are the

truth and things that really happened?

The cops were telling me that she was the

good guy. Everything that he told me

about all the cults, about beating us,

about how that was normal was a

lie. Have you ever seen your mom do

anything like that to, like, your little

sister or to any of your brothers?You know

Everything was completely changed within

the matter of a few hours for me.

Growing up and thinking that my mother

was a horrible human being and then

hearing that, in

reality, it was my father that was the

monster was very

rattling.

I remember just sitting there, shocked.

She had done some pretty bad stuff to us.

OK. Is that what he told you, or do you

remember this?Uh, that's what he told me.

And I'm just realizing, holy crap,

this was all a sham.

But I want you to tell me what you know,

not what your dad told you, not what

papers you think your dad has.

I felt lied to.

I felt just immense

anger. And then there's just this

shame. There's this feeling of of

embarrassment that I believed it all. I

kept thinking, too, of of my mom, just

like, Oh my God, how we've treated

her, what she's gone through.

So once we got back to the house, Rick

all of a sudden thought that, wow, this

is great and we've got the house to

ourself. Let's enjoy.

And so he wanted me to go and put

on some slutty dress

and make drinks and let's party.

I was having a really hard time being fun

because I I'm scared to death at this

point and.

That's when the sheriffs came to

arrest him.

I can't tell you how many people are

frightened to death of you right now.

Frightened to death of me?Yes.

His reaction was, You're arresting me

for forSpousal abuse?Are you

kidding?I didn't do this, but if you've

got a theory, I'd love to hear it. He

continued to perpetuate the

same crazy story. I know

it sounds crazy, but plan to have me

whacked off here after she leaves with

the kids to take him down to a satanic

group and be part of this satanic

church. It's so

delusional and so

crazy. I don't want this.

I never asked for this. I'm trying to

protect my kids. I was so

relieved when he was arrested.

To me, he was evil.

I had to pull it together and get

back on my feet because my kids were in

foster care since that day that Rick took

me to the sheriff's office to

confess, and it was my sole

focus to get my kids back with

me.

I was nervous because I didn't know

what their mindset was. They'd

been turned against me, but I was still

their mom. The kids ran up and gave me

hugs and said that they loved me and that

they missed me and when could we live

together again as a family and

that they were sorry that that

they thought that I was the bad guy. They

know that Dad's the bad guy and.

It was just very emotional.

This is a picture of my dad. He

just passed away a little over a year

ago. We talked about it once

after, and I apologized over and over

again. I

felt it was very important to apologize

and tell him that I loved him, and

after that conversation, we really didn't

talk about it again. He wanted

to be able to just put it behind us.

I was so happy to be alive.

I didn't think I would ever get to that

place. But so many people

think that once you remove the abuser

from the situation, now the

family's good to go. The problems are

over and life is good

again. But it's very difficult

to get back on your feet.

There's going to be stuff that. Always

stays with me.

My dad got up every day

and made a choice, a conscious choice.

I'm going to torture that

woman today. I'm going to beat the crap

out of that kid. I'm going to put this

whole family in a state of fear.

And it took a long time for us

to repair. The damage.

The fact that we survived is amazing. The

fact that we survive each day

after he has been gone is even more

amazing because we choose to

be stronger than what he has done to us.

And we choose to not be victims, but

be survivors and to keep moving forward

and to have faith in people again. We

can break the cycle and we can give our

future generations something.

That we didn't have a better

life.