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Announcer:
What is your name, please?
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My name is Anne dagg.
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My name is Anne dagg.
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My name is Anne dagg.
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Announcer: I, Anne dagg, am a
university lecturer in zoology
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and an expert on the giraffe.
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I gained my knowledge
of the world's tallest animal
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at first-hand by studying the
giraffe in its natural habitat.
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The London zoological
society published my findings
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as a unique scientific record
of the behaviour of the giraffe.
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Can these young ladies all claim
to be Anne dagg, giraffe expert?
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And we'll start this
cross-examination, if we may,
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with Peggy cass.
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Uh, number one, how come you
decided to study the giraffe?
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I always liked animals and
the giraffes fascinated me
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when I was a child
and went to the zoo.
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Number two,
where did you study the giraffe?
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In Stockholm.
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Man: Number three, is the
giraffe monogamous?
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Does the male giraffe look
around at the lady giraffes,
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or does he settle down?
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Uh, no, he's not monogamous.
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He's not monogamous?
This gets good, oh!
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Announcer: Take your ballets and
Mark them, if you will please,
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for number one,
number two or number three.
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Man: Anne actually
went to South Africa
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to begin her studies of giraffe
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before Jane
goodall got to Africa
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to study the chimpanzees.
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She wasn't only
a pioneering scientist
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looking at animals in the wild,
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but she was fighting
all kinds of odds as a woman.
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It takes an explorer's heart
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to be willing to
set off like that,
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to go and study
animals in Africa, in the 1950s,
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as a single woman
travelling the continent herself
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in her little rickety car.
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This was a different world then.
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There wasn't the infrastructure,
there were no mobile phones,
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there was nothing.
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She did the
ground-breaking stuff.
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But ironically,
Anne has slipped under the radar
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and doesn't attract the
attention that she deserves.
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Male panel member:
I voted for number one.
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Well, I voted for number one.
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Man: Well, I voted for
number one as well.
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Woman: I voted for one.
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I think she looks
like the scholarly type.
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Show announcer:
Let's find out at once
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which one of these ladies,
in truth, is the giraffe expert.
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Will the real
Anne dagg please stand up?
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Anne: If you'd never seen a
giraffe before, I guess,
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and came upon your
first one, you'd be amazed,
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because it doesn't look like any
other animal in the whole world.
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It has this lovely long, long
neck, and a long black tongue,
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a lovely long tail
and then this beautiful head,
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and two little
ossicones, they're called,
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but people call them horns.
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Aren't they curious?
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Other animals
aren't curious like that.
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Woman: We're at brookfield zoo
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for the international
giraffid conference.
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The importance of being here
is that this is where Anne dagg
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first started
her interest in giraffe.
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Man: If you're working on
giraffes, she was the pioneer.
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Anne wrote the textbook.
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Especially when
I was doing my masters.
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She was essential reading.
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But outside our tight community
of giraffe conservationists,
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giraffe researchers,
her work is very little known.
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00:04:22,804 --> 00:04:25,716
Anne was the first
person to go to Africa
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to study the
behaviour of a wild animal.
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In fact, with the exception
of a red deer study in Scotland,
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she was the first
person to study the behaviour
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of a wild animal
anywhere in the world.
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Anne's own inspiration
was here at the brookfield zoo.
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Anne: When I was about three,
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my mother took me to
the brookfield zoo in Chicago
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and there were giraffe there.
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I was very small, obviously,
and they were very tall,
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and I just thought,
"these are magnificent.”
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"I love these animals."
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My love affair
began right then, age three.
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Young Anne: "August 2nd, 1956."
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"Dear mommy,
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today was my
first sight and feel of Africa."
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"When I stepped
on the immortal soil,
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I felt just as excited as
when I saw my first giraffe."
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"It shows what
a great moment it was."
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Here's this
20-something year-old girl
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who gets out of
college and goes by herself
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to South Africa at the
beginning of the apartheid,
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in a time when women
didn't do anything like that
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and didn't care what the
society accepted things were,
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and she just pushed through,
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and she was gonna do
it because she wanted to.
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Young Anne: "As we drove,
I could hardly believe
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I was about to
see my first wild giraffe."
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"This was the moment I'd been
waiting for my whole life."
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Lisa: Oh, giraffe!
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John: Wow.
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Anne: Oh, heavens, that's great.
You forget how tall they are.
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John: He's the first one
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that I learned to recognize
individually.
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Lisa: Oh, really?
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How funny that he should
be the first one we see.
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Yeah.
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Oh.
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Oh, look at him standing
there, the way he's posing.
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John: Yeah.
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Anne: Oh, he's so beautiful.
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John: Anne, if you look with
your camera now,
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at the base of his neck,
you can see the trident, yeah.
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A trident looking like what?
Like a toasting fork.
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Okay. Oh.
That's how he gets his nickname.
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John: So, they each have a
nickname and a real name.
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The nickname
just helps us remember.
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Young Anne: "August 25th, 1956."
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"Life is as wonderful as ever,
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and I am only a little
apprehensive about snakes."
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"When stalking giraffe,
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I will have to
decide between walking loudly
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to scare off the
snakes and walking softly
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00:07:38,667 --> 00:07:39,873
to not scare the giraffe."
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"In this case,
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I think the interest of
the giraffe will come second.”
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John: You see, he has no tail.
It was bitten off by a lion.
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Anne: Well, he's got a tail.
It's just missing the tassel.
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John: Yes, that's right.
You know when they run,
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especially when they
run from a predator,
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they coil the tail
up over their backs.
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Anne: Yeah, yeah.
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I'm sure it's to avoid
just that, you know?
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Anne: Oh, dear. As you know,
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they're supposed to live for
maybe 25 years, aren't they?
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Which is pretty rare.
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00:08:03,566 --> 00:08:05,648
In the wild. Yeah.
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00:08:05,735 --> 00:08:08,192
John: Yes, we're always worried
that he's died, aren't we?
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Man: Yeah.
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John: Because he's so old.
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Anne: It would be sad to be
a lonely male, no friends.
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I don't know. I quite enjoy it.
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Anne: When I went to school,
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if there were a
chance to give a little speech,
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I would be talking about giraffe
and how they lived in Africa.
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I'd asked my parents for
a book about the giraffe,
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and they said, well,
there wasn't such a thing.
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When I got to
university, I thought,
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"well, at last, now we'll
maybe learn about giraffe,"
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but we never learned
about giraffe there, either,
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because, actually, there was
very little known about them.
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When I was graduating, I knew
I wanted to go to Africa now
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and see giraffe
in their wild place.
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I was 23 and I'd been thinking
for 20 years about going,
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and I just had to do it.
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Young man: "July 10th, 1956."
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"Dear Anne,
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I received your letter today and
I am answering it immediately.”
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"Certainly, you have
Africa in your blood now
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and you won't be
satisfied until you see it,
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00:09:23,772 --> 00:09:26,514
but I still mean what
I said by riverdale zoo."
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Anne:
I met LAN at the tennis courts.
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He... he played tennis
and I played tennis,
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that's how we got together.
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I said I was going to go to
Africa for the year and he said,
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"why don't we
get married instead?"
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00:09:38,745 --> 00:09:40,406
I didn't know,
really, what to do,
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00:09:40,497 --> 00:09:42,704
but I went to
my mother and she said,
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"you've always
wanted to see giraffe."
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"If you got married now,
you probably never would."
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And I agreed with her, so
I told LAN we'd have to wait,
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and if he waited,
then we could get married.
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And if he didn't
wait, then we wouldn't.
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Ian: "Dear Anne, it probably
is wise to follow advice
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and put off marriage
thoughts for a while."
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00:10:01,643 --> 00:10:05,261
"Let's think on it and hope that
you get to Africa and back."
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00:10:05,355 --> 00:10:08,847
"Such a dream to visit
should not go unsatisfied."
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00:10:08,942 --> 00:10:11,354
"Love, LAN.”
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00:10:11,444 --> 00:10:14,607
To go to Africa, I'd have to
play... find a place to stay
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and somewhere near
where there were giraffe
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that I could watch every day
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'cause I was
interested in their behaviour.
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00:10:20,620 --> 00:10:23,532
So I started to write to
people, anyone I could think of.
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00:10:23,623 --> 00:10:25,363
I would write to
the wildlife department
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in each of the countries
that I knew had giraffe.
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00:10:28,962 --> 00:10:30,543
I wrote to l.S.B. Leakey,
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who eventually helped Jane
goodall study the chimpanzees.
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00:10:34,592 --> 00:10:35,672
He was very kind.
189
00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,469
He actually sent
me three different letters.
190
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And there just
wasn't really a place in Kenya
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that I could study giraffe.
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Altogether, I'd have wrote 13
letters to wildlife departments
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in each of the countries
that I knew had giraffe.
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All of them came back and said,
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00:10:50,650 --> 00:10:52,436
"I'm afraid there
is no such place.”
196
00:10:52,527 --> 00:10:53,858
"No one is interested."
197
00:10:53,945 --> 00:10:56,561
One of them said, "well,
I think this wouldn't be good
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00:10:56,656 --> 00:10:58,317
for a young woman to be alone."
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00:10:58,408 --> 00:11:00,524
I thought, "oh, maybe it's
'cause I'm a woman
200
00:11:00,618 --> 00:11:01,824
that they're saying all this."
201
00:11:01,870 --> 00:11:03,781
So then I
started to use my initials
202
00:11:03,872 --> 00:11:05,783
so they wouldn't
know I was a woman
203
00:11:05,874 --> 00:11:08,081
and could have been
Andrew or some other a.
204
00:11:08,168 --> 00:11:12,377
Then a man called Mr. Matthew,
who was manager of a ranch
205
00:11:12,463 --> 00:11:14,795
near the kruger national
park in South Africa, said,
206
00:11:14,883 --> 00:11:17,499
"you can come and
you can bunk in with the males.”
207
00:11:17,594 --> 00:11:20,210
"We have accommodations
here for single men
208
00:11:20,305 --> 00:11:22,466
which are
equipped with electric light,
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00:11:22,557 --> 00:11:27,221
hot and cold running water, and
are virtually free of malaria.”
210
00:11:27,312 --> 00:11:28,768
And I remember my mother saying,
211
00:11:28,855 --> 00:11:31,471
"wait a minute, you
can't bunk in with the cowmen."
212
00:11:31,566 --> 00:11:33,477
And then I had
to write, of course,
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00:11:33,568 --> 00:11:36,526
and tell him I actually
wasn't a man, I was a woman.
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00:11:36,613 --> 00:11:38,524
Mr. Matthew: "Dear miss innis,
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00:11:38,573 --> 00:11:41,610
when I received an application
from a Canadian student,
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00:11:41,701 --> 00:11:44,534
I not unnaturally
thought it meant a male student
217
00:11:44,621 --> 00:11:48,079
and an offer was made
on this misunderstanding.”
218
00:11:48,166 --> 00:11:50,873
"It would hardly
do for an old man of 57
219
00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:53,918
to have a strange
young woman into his household
220
00:11:54,005 --> 00:11:56,087
without a chaperon.”
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00:11:56,132 --> 00:11:58,669
I was already part
way to Africa at that point,
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00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:00,170
so I was really desperate.
223
00:12:00,261 --> 00:12:03,378
I sent him another letter
and said I just had to come.
224
00:12:03,473 --> 00:12:04,758
"Please, let me come.”
225
00:12:04,849 --> 00:12:06,134
So finally, he said yes.
226
00:12:06,226 --> 00:12:08,467
I was so excited.
227
00:12:08,561 --> 00:12:09,926
Yes, he said yes.
228
00:12:15,318 --> 00:12:18,435
Young Anne: July 25th, 1956,
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00:12:18,529 --> 00:12:21,942
"dear LAN, the arundel
castle is a super ship.
230
00:12:21,991 --> 00:12:24,448
"It has oodles of deck space
231
00:12:24,494 --> 00:12:27,986
"and even
an open-air swimming pool.
232
00:12:28,081 --> 00:12:30,914
"Li have been talking to an
African boy at great length
233
00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:34,663
"and we have
been exchanging books.
234
00:12:34,754 --> 00:12:37,211
"At least three
whites have come up to me
235
00:12:37,298 --> 00:12:39,459
"and expressed
their disapproval.
236
00:12:39,509 --> 00:12:42,467
"They say that I will soon
lose my idealism when we land
237
00:12:42,553 --> 00:12:45,340
"and see the
African for what he is.
238
00:12:45,431 --> 00:12:46,921
"Yipe!
239
00:12:46,975 --> 00:12:48,636
"1 will write often
240
00:12:48,685 --> 00:12:51,392
"so that you will get
a good idea of South Africa.
241
00:12:51,479 --> 00:12:53,845
"I wish you were
coming too and were here now
242
00:12:53,940 --> 00:12:57,228
"so that I would have
someone to lie in the sun with.
243
00:12:57,318 --> 00:12:59,354
"Look after
yourself and write back.
244
00:12:59,445 --> 00:13:03,609
"Much love, Anne.”
245
00:13:03,658 --> 00:13:08,027
Anne's mother: "Dearest Anne,
your letters enthral us all.
246
00:13:08,121 --> 00:13:10,487
"Now, I have one
serious thing to say.
247
00:13:10,581 --> 00:13:13,414
"Please, promise me
that you will let me know
248
00:13:13,501 --> 00:13:14,957
when you need money.
249
00:13:15,044 --> 00:13:18,457
"Li won't worry about you at all
if I know you will do that,
250
00:13:18,548 --> 00:13:20,004
"for you obviously have
judgement
251
00:13:20,091 --> 00:13:24,334
"and courage and intelligence
enough for anything.
252
00:13:24,429 --> 00:13:26,920
"With dearest love, mother.”
253
00:13:31,060 --> 00:13:33,676
Young Anne: "Dear best
of all possible mothers.
254
00:13:33,771 --> 00:13:37,605
"Li am now the proud owner of a
second-hand car called camelo,
255
00:13:37,692 --> 00:13:40,525
"after camelopardalis,
the original giraffe.
256
00:13:40,611 --> 00:13:45,275
"It is a Ford
prefect, which cost £200."
257
00:13:45,366 --> 00:13:47,732
Anne: There are no busses
and there are no trains
258
00:13:47,827 --> 00:13:49,283
to this place in the transvaal,
259
00:13:49,370 --> 00:13:52,612
and I set off to drive a
thousand miles to Fleur de lys,
260
00:13:52,707 --> 00:13:55,198
which was
where Mr. Matthew lived.
261
00:13:57,545 --> 00:13:59,752
I was driving 12
hours a day pretty well
262
00:13:59,839 --> 00:14:01,295
and it ran out of water,
263
00:14:01,382 --> 00:14:05,091
so I had to stop every 20
minutes and pour water into it.
264
00:14:09,932 --> 00:14:12,674
I remember, I came up
behind a truck full of workers
265
00:14:12,769 --> 00:14:14,475
and they were all looking at me.
266
00:14:14,562 --> 00:14:17,224
And I guess it's very
unusual to see a white woman
267
00:14:17,315 --> 00:14:19,351
all by herself
in a tiny little car.
268
00:14:22,070 --> 00:14:25,608
Young Anne: "I drove the last 80
miles to klaserie in the dark."
269
00:14:25,698 --> 00:14:28,235
"On most of the hills,
there were grass fires burning
270
00:14:28,326 --> 00:14:32,114
"and the orange flames showed
plainly against the black sky.
271
00:14:32,205 --> 00:14:33,661
"The road got
progressively worse
272
00:14:33,748 --> 00:14:37,206
"until it was only a dirt
track full of washboards.
273
00:14:37,293 --> 00:14:38,783
"About 5 miles from the farm,
274
00:14:38,878 --> 00:14:40,789
camelo stopped
and refused to start.”
275
00:14:49,180 --> 00:14:53,264
"I put some clothes in my
knapsack, locked the car,
276
00:14:53,351 --> 00:14:56,138
and started to walk."
277
00:15:03,611 --> 00:15:06,273
Anne: I was just scared stiff
and there was no moon.
278
00:15:06,322 --> 00:15:09,485
It was incredibly dark, so I
was inching along the highway,
279
00:15:09,575 --> 00:15:11,782
knowing in a few
hours I would get there
280
00:15:11,869 --> 00:15:13,905
if somebody
didn't get me, like a lion.
281
00:15:17,166 --> 00:15:19,407
Snakes, which were
very deadly, were about,
282
00:15:19,502 --> 00:15:21,163
and I had to go very slowly
283
00:15:21,254 --> 00:15:24,712
because I
couldn't really see my feet.
284
00:15:24,799 --> 00:15:26,164
All the time, I was thinking,
285
00:15:26,259 --> 00:15:29,251
"this is the most scary
thing I hope I ever do.”
286
00:15:31,222 --> 00:15:32,678
And then about maybe an hour,
287
00:15:32,765 --> 00:15:35,051
a car drove up
and I immediately flagged it,
288
00:15:35,143 --> 00:15:37,509
and it turned out
to be someone from the ranch.
289
00:15:37,603 --> 00:15:39,559
They said, "you must
be the Canadian girl."
290
00:15:39,647 --> 00:15:40,807
And I said, "yes, yes!”
291
00:15:40,898 --> 00:15:42,809
And they took
me and I got there.
292
00:16:21,063 --> 00:16:22,678
Young Anne: "My dear LAN,
293
00:16:22,773 --> 00:16:24,559
I finally met Mr. Matthew."
294
00:16:24,650 --> 00:16:26,356
"He is a super-type person,
295
00:16:26,402 --> 00:16:30,236
and tonight he is taking us
to see my first wild giraffe."
296
00:16:33,201 --> 00:16:34,907
The farm is called Fleur de lys
297
00:16:34,994 --> 00:16:38,282
and has 20,000 acres
for citrus and cattle farming,
298
00:16:38,372 --> 00:16:41,284
and has 200
giraffe roaming around,
299
00:16:41,375 --> 00:16:44,412
as well as zebra,
wildebeest and impala.”
300
00:16:44,504 --> 00:16:47,416
"Mr. Matthew said he'd
take me down a few of the lanes
301
00:16:47,507 --> 00:16:51,546
on the farm so
I'd know where to go in camelo."
302
00:16:51,636 --> 00:16:52,921
"As we rounded a corner,
303
00:16:57,725 --> 00:17:00,683
"and she leaned down
and took a drink of water
304
00:17:00,770 --> 00:17:02,977
while we watched.”
305
00:17:03,064 --> 00:17:05,146
"It was very close.”
306
00:17:05,233 --> 00:17:07,690
"We were about 20 feet away."
307
00:17:07,777 --> 00:17:09,505
"And when she finished
drinking, she swished...”
308
00:17:09,529 --> 00:17:11,770
She swished her
head up and I was amazed.
309
00:17:11,864 --> 00:17:13,525
I thought that
she would have fainted
310
00:17:13,616 --> 00:17:15,816
because the blood pressure
difference would be so great.
311
00:17:15,868 --> 00:17:17,028
Lisa: Yes.
312
00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:18,180
Anne: But it's something
I've learned since.
313
00:17:18,204 --> 00:17:19,598
They have very
efficient blood pressure
314
00:17:19,622 --> 00:17:21,283
and that doesn't
bother them at all.
315
00:17:21,374 --> 00:17:23,865
They can go
up and down many times.
316
00:17:38,307 --> 00:17:41,219
Anne: "Dear mommy, life here
is continuing as rosy as ever,
317
00:17:41,310 --> 00:17:44,177
except it is rather hot."
318
00:17:44,272 --> 00:17:46,729
"To be able to
devote all day and every day
319
00:17:46,816 --> 00:17:50,604
to those dear
giraffe is unbelievable.”
320
00:17:50,695 --> 00:17:52,026
"It is a disappointing day
321
00:17:52,113 --> 00:17:55,856
when I don't
make notes on at least 30.
322
00:17:55,950 --> 00:17:57,611
"My car is playing
an indispensable role
323
00:17:57,702 --> 00:18:01,945
because when I drive up to
within 25 yards of a giraffe
324
00:18:02,039 --> 00:18:06,783
and stop, he pays no attention
to me and goes on eating
325
00:18:06,877 --> 00:18:09,493
or doing whatever he was doing."
326
00:18:09,589 --> 00:18:11,545
Anne: Well, if I was
doing an experiment,
327
00:18:11,632 --> 00:18:14,248
I would just sit and watch
what every giraffe within sight
328
00:18:14,343 --> 00:18:17,255
was doing every five minutes.
329
00:18:17,305 --> 00:18:20,672
Were they resting, eating,
lying, drinking, walking around,
330
00:18:20,766 --> 00:18:22,347
fighting, sparring?
331
00:18:22,435 --> 00:18:25,393
So I remember one time I was
thinking, "this is so boring."
332
00:18:25,479 --> 00:18:27,595
The little car I
had was just so hot.
333
00:18:27,690 --> 00:18:30,648
So I got out at the side and
thought they weren't looking,
334
00:18:30,693 --> 00:18:33,184
and starting practicing ballet.
335
00:18:37,742 --> 00:18:39,528
One of the females then saw me
336
00:18:39,619 --> 00:18:42,076
and started walking towards
me and I thought, "oh, no,"
337
00:18:42,163 --> 00:18:45,075
which meant I had to
stop and get back into the car
338
00:18:45,166 --> 00:18:46,576
and pretend I wasn't there.
339
00:18:46,667 --> 00:18:49,033
And then they went back to
doing whatever they were doing.
340
00:18:49,128 --> 00:18:51,039
You feel that
what they're doing after that,
341
00:18:51,130 --> 00:18:52,482
you aren't
probably affecting them.
342
00:18:52,506 --> 00:18:53,746
The whole point of behaviour
343
00:18:53,841 --> 00:18:56,127
is that they not
be affected by the person.
344
00:18:56,218 --> 00:18:58,504
So you would
never go and do anything
345
00:18:58,596 --> 00:18:59,711
that would distract them
346
00:18:59,805 --> 00:19:01,325
because then
everything they were doing
347
00:19:01,349 --> 00:19:02,759
would be null and void.
348
00:19:02,850 --> 00:19:05,637
So you have to
be as invisible as possible.
349
00:19:19,742 --> 00:19:23,985
Young Anne: "Mr. Matthew has a
professional type movie camera
350
00:19:24,038 --> 00:19:27,030
and he is very keen
to get a film on the giraffe,
351
00:19:27,124 --> 00:19:29,240
which I am every
bit as keen to take."
352
00:19:29,335 --> 00:19:32,873
"It will all be in colour,
which costs £4 for 100 feet,
353
00:19:32,963 --> 00:19:35,750
so I will try
and restrain myself."
354
00:19:35,841 --> 00:19:38,799
"I think Mr. Matthew will pay
for at least half the film,
355
00:19:38,886 --> 00:19:40,217
which should help somewhat.”
356
00:19:40,304 --> 00:19:43,011
"And I am getting to
learn more about the giraffe,
357
00:19:43,099 --> 00:19:47,763
even by studying them from a
photographic point of view."
358
00:19:55,486 --> 00:19:57,693
"Dear mommy, this
morning I was out giraffing
359
00:19:57,780 --> 00:19:59,987
and saw seven giraffes at once."
360
00:20:00,074 --> 00:20:02,861
"They were all so close,
I could see their eyelashes.”
361
00:20:02,952 --> 00:20:05,739
"One of the giraffe
snorted to see what I would do."
362
00:20:07,623 --> 00:20:09,079
"Finally,
the tension was too great
363
00:20:09,166 --> 00:20:11,122
and they all cantered off.”
364
00:20:11,210 --> 00:20:14,373
"You can see how conversant
I sound with giraffes."
365
00:20:14,463 --> 00:20:19,082
"Especially as this
is my third day here.”
366
00:20:19,176 --> 00:20:21,258
I'm pretending
I know everything.
367
00:20:21,345 --> 00:20:22,835
Well, it sounds like you did
368
00:20:22,930 --> 00:20:25,421
a huge amount
of behaviour observation.
369
00:20:25,516 --> 00:20:28,883
How did people react to
you as a woman alone like that?
370
00:20:28,978 --> 00:20:30,434
Did that affect you at all?
371
00:20:30,521 --> 00:20:33,638
Yeah, I never really thought
about it, that me being a woman,
372
00:20:33,733 --> 00:20:34,939
it was strange.
373
00:20:34,984 --> 00:20:37,066
And they thought
about it all the time, I think.
374
00:20:37,153 --> 00:20:39,269
But you never let it stop you.
Oh, no!
375
00:20:39,363 --> 00:20:41,274
Well, 'cause I was
thinking I was a person.
376
00:20:41,365 --> 00:20:43,321
So I guess
I'm thankful to my mother
377
00:20:43,409 --> 00:20:46,025
for allowing me
to be a person and not a woman.
378
00:20:46,120 --> 00:20:47,326
Lisa: Yeah, was that something
379
00:20:47,413 --> 00:20:49,074
you remember
as part of your childhood?
380
00:20:49,123 --> 00:20:51,284
Anne: Yeah, I just always
did my own thing.
381
00:20:51,375 --> 00:20:53,366
If I wanted to do it, I did it.
382
00:20:53,461 --> 00:20:55,827
Ali: What did your mother
think of you taking this trip?
383
00:20:55,921 --> 00:20:57,801
Anne: Oh I think she was
completely freaked out,
384
00:20:57,882 --> 00:20:59,151
but she was really
good about it,
385
00:20:59,175 --> 00:21:01,095
'cause my father just died
a couple years before,
386
00:21:01,177 --> 00:21:01,882
which didn't help.
387
00:21:01,969 --> 00:21:04,585
And my brothers and
sisters had all left home,
388
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:06,420
so I was the only one left.
389
00:21:07,475 --> 00:21:09,431
Mary quayle innis was my mother.
390
00:21:09,518 --> 00:21:11,759
She married my father in 1921.
391
00:21:11,854 --> 00:21:14,846
She had four children,
but she also wrote many books.
392
00:21:14,940 --> 00:21:17,226
My father was Harold innis.
393
00:21:17,318 --> 00:21:19,684
He was a top
economist in Canada, really.
394
00:21:19,779 --> 00:21:24,113
They named a college for him
at the university of Toronto.
395
00:21:24,158 --> 00:21:27,070
They're still
publishing books about him.
396
00:21:27,161 --> 00:21:28,651
He was interested in animals,
397
00:21:28,746 --> 00:21:32,614
so I was always interested in
animals partly because of him.
398
00:21:32,708 --> 00:21:35,165
My father died in '52.
399
00:21:35,252 --> 00:21:37,117
I was in second year university.
400
00:21:37,213 --> 00:21:40,831
They made my mother Dean of
women at the university college.
401
00:21:40,925 --> 00:21:42,881
Well, I guess I
was closer to her
402
00:21:42,968 --> 00:21:44,504
'cause my father
was always working
403
00:21:44,595 --> 00:21:46,085
and I'd just
tell her everything.
404
00:21:46,180 --> 00:21:47,841
It was like
having a best friend.
405
00:21:47,932 --> 00:21:51,390
I've always wanted
to be just like her, really.
406
00:21:51,477 --> 00:21:55,061
"Dear Anne, the giraffe
pictures sound wonderful.”
407
00:21:55,147 --> 00:21:57,638
"You must
have seen more giraffes now
408
00:21:57,733 --> 00:22:01,100
and learned more about them
than anybody else in the world."
409
00:22:01,195 --> 00:22:03,811
"You'll certainly have to write
a book about your adventures.”
410
00:22:03,906 --> 00:22:08,991
"As diamond kept saying,
'it's like a fairy story.'"
411
00:22:09,078 --> 00:22:10,443
Mr. Matthew: "Dear Mrs. innis,
412
00:22:10,538 --> 00:22:12,153
Anne is nicely settled
413
00:22:12,248 --> 00:22:14,660
and working hard
on her giraffe thesis."
414
00:22:14,750 --> 00:22:17,913
"I don't think I've ever met any
young person quite like her."
415
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:23,543
"There is no doubt she will
be a famous lady some time,
416
00:22:23,634 --> 00:22:27,343
and the fame will be
well earned and well deserved."
417
00:22:27,429 --> 00:22:29,886
"Kind regards,
Alexander Matthew."
418
00:22:32,685 --> 00:22:35,597
Young Anne: "October 4th, 1956."
419
00:22:35,688 --> 00:22:39,476
"Ll am getting along very well in
my African relations campaign.”
420
00:22:39,567 --> 00:22:42,525
"I am working with the family
of one of the cattle boys
421
00:22:42,570 --> 00:22:44,936
that lives by the borehole where
I sometimes wait
422
00:22:45,030 --> 00:22:48,067
in hopes that an errant giraffe
will come down to drink."
423
00:22:48,158 --> 00:22:51,650
There was a camp of about 100
workers that worked on the ranch
424
00:22:51,745 --> 00:22:55,078
doing citrus
and cattle management.
425
00:22:55,124 --> 00:22:58,036
So I wandered in and then I felt
self-conscious because I mean,
426
00:22:58,127 --> 00:22:59,742
I was invading their territory.
427
00:22:59,837 --> 00:23:01,793
And then the secretary came out
and said,
428
00:23:01,881 --> 00:23:03,087
"don't go there again.”
429
00:23:03,173 --> 00:23:05,334
"You're a white woman,
you don't go there ever!”
430
00:23:05,426 --> 00:23:07,587
And I said, "well, why not?"
And he said,
431
00:23:07,636 --> 00:23:10,799
"well, they're black,
and white women don't go there."
432
00:23:10,890 --> 00:23:12,346
So that was my
first understanding
433
00:23:12,433 --> 00:23:14,264
of how South Africa worked.
434
00:23:16,770 --> 00:23:19,978
Young Anne: "Right now I
am sitting by the borehole
435
00:23:20,065 --> 00:23:23,057
waiting for something to
appear, preferably a giraffe."
436
00:23:23,152 --> 00:23:24,608
"When I wait in the car,
437
00:23:24,695 --> 00:23:28,859
Enoch and Bella come over and
sit on the running boards."
438
00:23:28,949 --> 00:23:33,238
"Enoch is about six
and Bella about thirteen."
439
00:23:33,329 --> 00:23:36,287
"I was talking to Bella
for about two hours yesterday."
440
00:23:36,373 --> 00:23:39,536
"She would point to her belt
and say what it was in 'besute'
441
00:23:39,627 --> 00:23:42,243
"or fanagolo, then
I would give the english word
442
00:23:42,338 --> 00:23:45,751
and we would laugh because this
always seemed to be very funny.”
443
00:23:45,841 --> 00:23:48,207
Anne: Then I became friends
with lots of the workers,
444
00:23:48,302 --> 00:23:50,008
and occasionally,
Mr. Matthew would ask me
445
00:23:50,095 --> 00:23:52,552
to take one to
a clinic if he were sick.
446
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:55,006
And then he'd get
in the back and I'd say,
447
00:23:55,100 --> 00:23:57,307
"no, no, drive in the front."
"We can talk."
448
00:23:57,394 --> 00:24:00,010
And they'd never been
in the front of a car before
449
00:24:00,105 --> 00:24:02,642
because obviously
white people really didn't want
450
00:24:02,733 --> 00:24:05,440
to have anything to do with
the people working for them,
451
00:24:05,527 --> 00:24:08,360
which I thought was ridiculous.
452
00:24:27,424 --> 00:24:29,756
Young Anne: "October 7th, 1956."
453
00:24:29,843 --> 00:24:31,504
"This report
will have to consist mainly
454
00:24:31,595 --> 00:24:35,258
of the big bull
giraffe which was shot Friday."
455
00:24:35,349 --> 00:24:37,180
"The provincial
game warden shot it
456
00:24:37,267 --> 00:24:39,974
and then came to tell us
there was no use fussing."
457
00:24:40,062 --> 00:24:42,724
"12 natives and two
white men went off in a truck
458
00:24:42,815 --> 00:24:45,272
to bring it in
so that they could skin it
459
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:48,647
and cut it into hunks
of meat for the natives."
460
00:24:48,737 --> 00:24:51,399
"They put the stomach,
and the intestines and the heart
461
00:24:51,490 --> 00:24:54,653
in a big basin for me so
that I could study them later.”
462
00:24:54,743 --> 00:24:57,450
"The heart is
reputed to weigh 25 pounds,
463
00:24:57,538 --> 00:25:00,780
which I well
believe after carrying it."
464
00:25:00,874 --> 00:25:03,581
"The most upsetting part was
when they cut up the neck
465
00:25:03,669 --> 00:25:06,661
with an axe into lengths rather
in the manner of cord wood."
466
00:25:08,465 --> 00:25:11,457
"I separated all the intestines
so that I could spread them out
467
00:25:11,552 --> 00:25:13,213
and see how long they were."
468
00:25:13,303 --> 00:25:17,672
"Ll measured them with a yardstick
and they were 256 feet!"
469
00:25:17,725 --> 00:25:19,010
"Yipe!™
470
00:25:19,101 --> 00:25:20,216
"by studying the stomach,
471
00:25:20,269 --> 00:25:22,510
I had hoped to find
bits of leaves and twigs
472
00:25:22,604 --> 00:25:23,719
that I might recognize
473
00:25:23,814 --> 00:25:26,021
so that I could
get a better idea of exactly
474
00:25:26,066 --> 00:25:28,557
what their diet consisted of."
475
00:25:28,610 --> 00:25:32,819
"However, all I found
was a green juicy mess."
476
00:25:32,906 --> 00:25:34,066
There were no books
477
00:25:34,158 --> 00:25:36,114
on how to study
the behaviour of an animal.
478
00:25:36,201 --> 00:25:39,159
So I just thought, whenever they
were eating at a certain tree,
479
00:25:39,246 --> 00:25:41,612
when they wandered on,
I'd get out of the car
480
00:25:41,707 --> 00:25:44,164
and took the samples
of these leaves up to Pretoria.
481
00:25:44,251 --> 00:25:46,913
And a woman who studied
plants was able to tell me
482
00:25:46,962 --> 00:25:49,419
which ones they were,
so I had a list, finally,
483
00:25:49,465 --> 00:25:51,376
of trees that
giraffe liked to browse on.
484
00:25:51,467 --> 00:25:55,005
That's how you build
up how an animal lives.
485
00:25:55,095 --> 00:25:57,837
And no one had ever really
studied an African animal
486
00:25:57,931 --> 00:26:00,843
in the wild, or pretty
well any animal in the wild,
487
00:26:00,934 --> 00:26:03,801
so I was sort of breaking
ground without realizing it.
488
00:26:07,524 --> 00:26:10,482
Oh, this is from the
very first day I saw a giraffe.
489
00:26:10,569 --> 00:26:12,309
Incredible.
490
00:26:16,241 --> 00:26:20,575
Each day I'd write down exactly
what I did that day, what I saw.
491
00:26:21,038 --> 00:26:23,370
"9:13, three
standing, one feeding."
492
00:26:23,457 --> 00:26:26,244
"9:15, two eating,
two standing."
493
00:26:26,335 --> 00:26:29,202
"9:18, two eating, two chewing.”
494
00:26:29,296 --> 00:26:31,332
"9:32, three eating,
495
00:26:31,423 --> 00:26:34,540
one at a low acacia
bush and one chewing.”
496
00:26:34,635 --> 00:26:37,843
"9:36, all feeding, very
gradually moving north."
497
00:26:40,808 --> 00:26:45,677
And then this is how far a group
of giraffe moved from 10:35,
498
00:26:45,771 --> 00:26:47,978
19 hours, and how many yards,
499
00:26:48,065 --> 00:26:49,726
the speed at which,
therefore, it moved.
500
00:26:49,817 --> 00:26:52,308
I have it all worked out.
501
00:27:02,121 --> 00:27:04,703
It usually got
dark about 6:00 or 6:30.
502
00:27:04,790 --> 00:27:06,121
We'd have dinner,
503
00:27:06,166 --> 00:27:08,452
and then Mr. Matthew
would want to tell me stories
504
00:27:08,544 --> 00:27:10,000
about his Scottish past.
505
00:27:10,087 --> 00:27:14,456
I was just so dead tired and
I was desperate to stay awake.
506
00:27:14,550 --> 00:27:16,131
And then at five in the morning,
507
00:27:16,218 --> 00:27:17,946
there'd be the knock on the
door, and he'd leave tea for me,
508
00:27:17,970 --> 00:27:19,881
and I'd eat that,
then we'd have breakfast
509
00:27:19,972 --> 00:27:21,633
and then it
was another day again.
510
00:27:21,723 --> 00:27:25,215
It was super.
Exhausting but super.
511
00:27:25,310 --> 00:27:27,517
He made it possible for me.
Every single day,
512
00:27:27,604 --> 00:27:30,016
I'd have eight or ten
hours out watching the giraffe.
513
00:27:30,107 --> 00:27:33,520
He was just so kind, and I think
he really liked a young woman
514
00:27:33,610 --> 00:27:36,818
who was so enthusiastic.
515
00:27:36,905 --> 00:27:39,897
I think that Mr. Matthew
showed a lot of trust for you
516
00:27:39,992 --> 00:27:41,653
and you for he. Yes, yes, yeah.
517
00:27:41,743 --> 00:27:43,404
There was a lot
of mutual respect.
518
00:27:43,495 --> 00:27:46,032
Anne: And his wife wasn't there,
his children weren't there,
519
00:27:46,123 --> 00:27:47,600
and the neighbours
were absolutely aghast.
520
00:27:47,624 --> 00:27:49,160
And they were saying,
521
00:27:49,251 --> 00:27:53,119
"here's Mr. Matthew, got
this young hussy from Canada.”
522
00:27:59,094 --> 00:28:02,086
John: So this one is
October the 4th, 1956.
523
00:28:02,181 --> 00:28:05,173
"Dear mommy." You haven't
read these, have you?
524
00:28:05,267 --> 00:28:07,724
Not since I wrote them.
Since you wrote them, no.
525
00:28:07,811 --> 00:28:08,811
Very interesting.
526
00:28:08,854 --> 00:28:10,310
"This morning
I was out giraffing
527
00:28:10,397 --> 00:28:12,604
and I saw two males
fighting with their necks
528
00:28:12,691 --> 00:28:13,897
in the distance."
529
00:28:13,984 --> 00:28:15,940
Young Anne:
"Ll snaked up closer to them
530
00:28:16,028 --> 00:28:18,440
and watched them through
my glasses for about an hour."
531
00:28:18,530 --> 00:28:20,646
"I have never had
a more exciting morning."
532
00:28:20,741 --> 00:28:22,231
"Two males were having a fight
533
00:28:22,326 --> 00:28:24,908
and they were circling around
each other and giving each other
534
00:28:24,995 --> 00:28:27,862
upper cuts and left
hooks in true boxing style.”
535
00:28:27,915 --> 00:28:29,826
"Suddenly, one whipped
his neck down and across
536
00:28:29,917 --> 00:28:32,909
and hit the other one a
terrific wallop on the chest.”
537
00:28:33,003 --> 00:28:35,494
"It was a most
spectacular display.”
538
00:28:41,553 --> 00:28:43,794
"It is much better to
watch than human boxing
539
00:28:43,889 --> 00:28:47,177
because no one ever
seems to get very badly hurt.”
540
00:28:47,267 --> 00:28:49,883
"Ll don't think anyone has ever
taken pictures of giraffe fights
541
00:28:49,978 --> 00:28:53,436
of any sort, so I
think I will have something.”
542
00:29:07,162 --> 00:29:08,572
Anne: After one of these bouts,
543
00:29:08,664 --> 00:29:10,620
it might last a
couple of minutes, really.
544
00:29:10,707 --> 00:29:13,323
One male might go behind
the other and mount the male.
545
00:29:13,418 --> 00:29:16,455
And I remember the first
time I saw it, I was stunned.
546
00:29:16,546 --> 00:29:18,832
I didn't know what
on earth they were doing.
547
00:29:18,924 --> 00:29:21,085
And then I thought maybe
this is homosexual behaviour.
548
00:29:21,176 --> 00:29:23,838
I thought it was fantastic
to observe and find this out.
549
00:29:23,929 --> 00:29:25,920
I was really excited
and I remember thinking,
550
00:29:26,014 --> 00:29:27,504
"well, should I
tell Mr. Matthew?"
551
00:29:27,599 --> 00:29:30,682
And then I thought, no, I didn't
have the nerve to mention it,
552
00:29:30,769 --> 00:29:32,430
so I never told anyone about it
553
00:29:32,521 --> 00:29:34,432
until I wrote
about it in the paper.
554
00:29:34,523 --> 00:29:37,060
Because you have to
say what's true in science.
555
00:29:38,860 --> 00:29:40,566
You wouldn't
really know they were fighting
556
00:29:40,654 --> 00:29:43,361
for... if you didn't just...
If you just glanced at them.
557
00:29:43,448 --> 00:29:44,608
John: No.
558
00:29:44,658 --> 00:29:46,219
Anne: You have to stay
around for a while.
559
00:29:46,243 --> 00:29:48,199
John: People think it's
courtship, don't they?
560
00:29:48,287 --> 00:29:50,744
Anne: Oh, yeah, I've seen
that for a Valentine card.
561
00:29:50,831 --> 00:29:52,742
John:
It's very appropriate, really.
562
00:29:52,833 --> 00:29:55,700
That's what Valentine
cards lead to in the end.
563
00:29:56,962 --> 00:29:59,453
Anne: Oh, John!
564
00:30:02,134 --> 00:30:04,716
The other unusual behaviour
was the flehmen behaviour,
565
00:30:04,803 --> 00:30:07,385
in which the male
tests the urine of the female
566
00:30:07,472 --> 00:30:09,679
to see if she's in estrous.
567
00:30:09,725 --> 00:30:13,968
And if she is, then
he'll try and mate with her.
568
00:30:14,062 --> 00:30:17,099
The strongest bull does most of
the mating and will go around
569
00:30:17,190 --> 00:30:20,603
and sniff the urine or
even take some into his mouth
570
00:30:20,694 --> 00:30:24,528
and he can tell from that if
the female is coming into heat.
571
00:30:24,614 --> 00:30:26,104
So again, this was something
572
00:30:26,199 --> 00:30:29,066
no one had ever written
an article about it before.
573
00:30:29,828 --> 00:30:31,739
After I'd described the
behaviour of the giraffe
574
00:30:31,830 --> 00:30:34,537
in a paper, the head of the
zoological society of London
575
00:30:34,624 --> 00:30:36,285
wrote back in
a very friendly manner
576
00:30:36,376 --> 00:30:38,037
and said he
would love to publish.
577
00:30:38,086 --> 00:30:40,793
And that was one
of the top ones in the world.
578
00:30:40,881 --> 00:30:43,338
And I was really excited
that they would accept it.
579
00:30:45,886 --> 00:30:48,719
Young Anne:
"September 10th, 1956."
580
00:30:48,805 --> 00:30:51,797
"My dear LAN,
if I wasn'tin 7th heaven
581
00:30:51,892 --> 00:30:53,928
because of my present location,
582
00:30:54,019 --> 00:30:55,850
I would be annoyed with you."
583
00:30:55,937 --> 00:30:59,270
"I have had no letter
from you dated after August 14th
584
00:30:59,358 --> 00:31:02,771
and it will take even longer
for any mail to be forwarded."
585
00:31:02,861 --> 00:31:05,603
"I may have run off
with a giraffe by then!"
586
00:31:05,697 --> 00:31:08,484
"Notice chilly opening.”
587
00:31:09,284 --> 00:31:10,615
Young LAN: "Dear Anne,
588
00:31:10,702 --> 00:31:13,489
may you not find cause to
use a chilly opening paragraph
589
00:31:13,580 --> 00:31:15,912
in your letters because
of my natural tardiness."
590
00:31:15,999 --> 00:31:17,409
"Your last letter of complaint
591
00:31:17,501 --> 00:31:19,729
about the flow of letters from
here has driven me to buying
592
00:31:19,753 --> 00:31:21,835
these air letter mail
forms which will make it easier
593
00:31:21,922 --> 00:31:23,913
to write more,
if shorter messages."
594
00:31:24,007 --> 00:31:26,110
He was supposed to write every
week, but it was getting so that
595
00:31:26,134 --> 00:31:27,544
he would write every two weeks,
596
00:31:27,636 --> 00:31:30,503
and so I wrote and said if
he couldn't write every week,
597
00:31:30,597 --> 00:31:33,714
then we shouldn't get married.
598
00:31:33,809 --> 00:31:34,969
And in novels, you know,
599
00:31:35,060 --> 00:31:36,971
they always write
four times a day, so...
600
00:31:37,062 --> 00:31:38,268
Oh, yes, oh, yes, yes.
601
00:31:40,065 --> 00:31:43,228
So I guess he thought, well,
maybe I should write a bit more,
602
00:31:43,318 --> 00:31:44,774
and so he did write.
603
00:31:44,861 --> 00:31:47,318
Young Anne:
"Right now, I am in a super mood
604
00:31:47,406 --> 00:31:49,567
because I just got
mail and would give anything
605
00:31:49,658 --> 00:31:52,365
to have you here so
I could rush across the room
606
00:31:52,452 --> 00:31:55,319
and jump on you and crush
you to death in my exuberance.”
607
00:31:56,832 --> 00:32:00,040
"You can see I am still
the same gentle little female."
608
00:32:00,127 --> 00:32:04,336
"All my non-familial love,
Anne of the bushveld.”
609
00:32:04,423 --> 00:32:07,085
Lisa: He must have been a
remarkable man for the time
610
00:32:07,175 --> 00:32:08,836
because you
were not a shrinking Violet.
611
00:32:08,927 --> 00:32:10,383
Anne: No.
612
00:32:10,470 --> 00:32:12,281
Lisa: You were very determined,
extremely intelligent woman.
613
00:32:12,305 --> 00:32:13,215
Anne: Well, yeah.
614
00:32:13,306 --> 00:32:14,671
And he played
tennis really well.
615
00:32:14,766 --> 00:32:16,677
Ah, there you go!
A good tennis partner.
616
00:32:16,768 --> 00:32:17,974
Woman: Did he beat you?
617
00:32:18,061 --> 00:32:19,301
No. No, no.
618
00:32:22,941 --> 00:32:26,399
Young Anne: "Dear LAN, this
time I am really annoyed.”
619
00:32:26,486 --> 00:32:27,942
"Every day at meal time,
620
00:32:28,029 --> 00:32:30,691
I get cross and irritable
when there is no LAN letter,
621
00:32:30,782 --> 00:32:33,649
and for the next hour I go
around muttering 'blast him!'
622
00:32:33,743 --> 00:32:35,483
under my breath.”
623
00:32:35,579 --> 00:32:37,786
"If you want to
call the whole thing off,
624
00:32:37,873 --> 00:32:41,582
then for heaven's sake, don't be
a chicken and write and say so."
625
00:32:42,502 --> 00:32:44,914
Young LAN: "Perhaps I have not
given you enough reason
626
00:32:45,005 --> 00:32:46,370
for being sure of me."
627
00:32:46,465 --> 00:32:49,753
"Let me repeat, girl,
that I am in love with you."
628
00:32:49,843 --> 00:32:54,177
"I very much want to come to
england and to marry you there,
629
00:32:54,264 --> 00:32:55,800
or anywhere you want.”
630
00:32:55,891 --> 00:32:57,927
"And nothing can change that.”
631
00:32:58,018 --> 00:33:00,134
Anne: He said he would
fly over to London
632
00:33:00,228 --> 00:33:02,685
and I'd meet him
on the way back from Africa,
633
00:33:02,772 --> 00:33:04,683
and we'd get married in London
and then
634
00:33:04,774 --> 00:33:06,890
we could have a honeymoon there.
635
00:33:06,985 --> 00:33:10,728
Then we took a ship back to
Canada, back into real life.
636
00:33:14,784 --> 00:33:17,275
When we got home,
we moved to Waterloo,
637
00:33:17,370 --> 00:33:19,577
where my husband
got a job as a physicist
638
00:33:19,664 --> 00:33:21,120
in the physics department.
639
00:33:21,208 --> 00:33:24,166
I taught at wilfred laurier
university for three years
640
00:33:24,252 --> 00:33:25,492
and I really loved it.
641
00:33:25,587 --> 00:33:28,203
I realized that if I
really wanted to be a teacher,
642
00:33:28,256 --> 00:33:30,747
I should earn my phd.
643
00:33:32,844 --> 00:33:34,800
In biology, often
you have to kill animals
644
00:33:34,888 --> 00:33:37,004
and I was determined
I would never do that,
645
00:33:37,098 --> 00:33:38,759
so what could
you study about them
646
00:33:38,850 --> 00:33:41,341
that you didn't need their body?
647
00:33:44,064 --> 00:33:47,852
One of the things,
of course, is how they move.
648
00:33:47,943 --> 00:33:49,899
They're magnificent runners,
649
00:33:49,945 --> 00:33:53,233
incredibly fast,
about 35 kilometres per hour.
650
00:33:53,323 --> 00:33:55,484
But to see their
legs going in slow motion
651
00:33:55,575 --> 00:33:58,817
and their necks going
forward and back with each gait,
652
00:33:58,912 --> 00:34:01,403
they're just a
symphony of perfection.
653
00:34:06,211 --> 00:34:08,202
I spent the next
two years using film
654
00:34:08,255 --> 00:34:10,962
that I'd collected in Africa and
comparing the gaits of giraffe
655
00:34:11,049 --> 00:34:14,086
with the gaits
of large ungulates.
656
00:34:18,139 --> 00:34:20,300
One of the things
I found about the giraffe
657
00:34:20,392 --> 00:34:22,599
was that it had difficulty
walking like other animals
658
00:34:22,686 --> 00:34:24,722
because its long legs
would hit each other,
659
00:34:24,813 --> 00:34:27,179
so it had to walk
in a rather special way
660
00:34:27,274 --> 00:34:28,684
so that it
wouldn't become confused
661
00:34:28,775 --> 00:34:31,266
and tangled up with its legs.
662
00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:39,519
They're quite
incapable of trotting
663
00:34:39,578 --> 00:34:42,240
because they have to
move two legs on one side first
664
00:34:42,330 --> 00:34:44,286
and then two
legs on the other side.
665
00:34:44,374 --> 00:34:47,036
So it's rather a different
gait than most animals have.
666
00:34:49,045 --> 00:34:50,876
So I made a
really interesting paper
667
00:34:50,964 --> 00:34:53,626
about how evolution had
produced all these various forms
668
00:34:53,717 --> 00:34:56,834
and why they
might have evolved that way.
669
00:34:56,928 --> 00:34:58,919
Since I had
children at that point,
670
00:34:59,014 --> 00:35:01,300
this was rather a busy life.
671
00:35:01,391 --> 00:35:03,632
I had my first son, Hugh.
672
00:35:03,727 --> 00:35:06,469
And he was born,
and then two years later, LAN,
673
00:35:06,563 --> 00:35:08,019
named after my husband.
674
00:35:08,106 --> 00:35:10,251
We were going to stop at two
because we knew environmentally
675
00:35:10,275 --> 00:35:11,936
this was the right thing to do,
676
00:35:12,027 --> 00:35:15,394
but I just
wanted a daughter so much.
677
00:35:15,488 --> 00:35:17,979
And then my
daughter Mary was born.
678
00:35:21,536 --> 00:35:22,321
Mumsie!
679
00:35:22,412 --> 00:35:23,902
How are you doing? How are you?
680
00:35:23,997 --> 00:35:25,203
Good to see you.
681
00:35:25,290 --> 00:35:27,201
And how's things
going with your, uh, birds?
682
00:35:27,292 --> 00:35:29,374
Well, it depends
on the time of day.
683
00:35:29,461 --> 00:35:32,077
They come in the morning
and then they come about 2:00.
684
00:35:32,172 --> 00:35:34,413
I've trained them.
685
00:35:34,507 --> 00:35:38,216
Mary: I guess my mom's approach
to life was a very, what I feel,
686
00:35:38,303 --> 00:35:39,964
a very scientific approach.
687
00:35:40,013 --> 00:35:42,174
I must have been
maybe about ten or eleven
688
00:35:42,265 --> 00:35:44,472
and my mother
had gone out on a walk
689
00:35:44,559 --> 00:35:46,220
and came across a dead bird.
690
00:35:46,311 --> 00:35:48,222
So she put
the bird in the baggie
691
00:35:48,313 --> 00:35:49,723
and put it in the freezer.
692
00:35:49,814 --> 00:35:51,679
Her thought was she
would, at some point,
693
00:35:51,775 --> 00:35:53,311
take it out to study it.
694
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:56,477
So of course, my dad didn't know
anything about this, so one day
695
00:35:56,571 --> 00:35:59,278
he went to the freezer
to get into the ice cream
696
00:35:59,366 --> 00:36:01,527
and what would
fall out but this dead bird...
697
00:36:01,618 --> 00:36:02,903
In the baggie.
698
00:36:02,994 --> 00:36:04,655
And dad just,
he said, "that's it!"
699
00:36:04,746 --> 00:36:06,452
"That's it!"
700
00:36:06,539 --> 00:36:08,530
Anne: I'd always wanted
to be a scientist.
701
00:36:08,625 --> 00:36:10,786
Having earned a phd at the
university of Waterloo,
702
00:36:10,877 --> 00:36:14,085
I knew that there was just a
huge amount more I could study,
703
00:36:14,172 --> 00:36:16,379
and I thought if I
became a tenured professor,
704
00:36:16,466 --> 00:36:18,377
they usually get
four months off every year,
705
00:36:18,468 --> 00:36:20,629
and then I would
spend my time in Africa
706
00:36:20,720 --> 00:36:22,927
studying giraffe and
be able to write more papers
707
00:36:23,014 --> 00:36:24,754
and know more about them.
708
00:36:24,849 --> 00:36:27,807
What she expected
when she got back to Canada
709
00:36:27,894 --> 00:36:29,805
was that she'd
done all this research.
710
00:36:29,896 --> 00:36:32,387
She went back, got her phd,
711
00:36:32,482 --> 00:36:35,974
was extremely
well-versed and educated
712
00:36:36,069 --> 00:36:39,106
and ready to share her knowledge
in a university environment,
713
00:36:39,197 --> 00:36:43,031
and, uh, was very disappointed
in several occasions
714
00:36:43,118 --> 00:36:45,154
where she'd gone to university
715
00:36:45,245 --> 00:36:48,237
and jobs that she, in some ways,
may have been overqualified for,
716
00:36:48,331 --> 00:36:53,041
she was not getting.
717
00:36:53,128 --> 00:36:55,790
Anne:
Sandy, he was a prof at guelph
718
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:59,589
and he was one of the few
that actually talked to me...
719
00:37:01,052 --> 00:37:03,464
As opposed to most of
them would ignore the women.
720
00:37:03,555 --> 00:37:06,262
And there were about three
or four women at that point.
721
00:37:06,349 --> 00:37:08,305
Man: Well, well, well,
look who's here!
722
00:37:08,393 --> 00:37:09,393
Anne: How are you?
723
00:37:09,436 --> 00:37:11,097
It's a long time no see, Anne!
724
00:37:11,187 --> 00:37:13,599
Oh, it's so good to see you!
725
00:37:13,690 --> 00:37:15,226
It's wonderful.
726
00:37:15,316 --> 00:37:18,808
Sandy:
Anne was appointed in 1968,
727
00:37:18,903 --> 00:37:20,359
so that's how I met Anne.
728
00:37:20,447 --> 00:37:23,439
She came as a
colleague in the department.
729
00:37:23,491 --> 00:37:26,028
When I was appointed to
promotion and tenure committees,
730
00:37:26,119 --> 00:37:29,156
then, of course,
I became aware of her cv
731
00:37:29,247 --> 00:37:31,238
and all of her publications
732
00:37:31,332 --> 00:37:34,745
and her, um, research
record before that time.
733
00:37:34,836 --> 00:37:37,373
To be a professor,
I had to get tenure.
734
00:37:37,464 --> 00:37:41,048
I'd had, I don't know, maybe 15
or 20 published papers by then,
735
00:37:41,134 --> 00:37:44,626
and I thought, well, there's
no way they can deny me tenure.
736
00:37:44,721 --> 00:37:47,337
They can't deny that I have
this list of published papers
737
00:37:47,432 --> 00:37:49,468
from journals
all over the world.
738
00:37:49,559 --> 00:37:51,971
Sandy: The proceedings of the
promotion and tenure committee
739
00:37:52,061 --> 00:37:53,426
were confidential.
740
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:57,473
It was a very critical
and judgmental process.
741
00:37:57,567 --> 00:38:00,855
You're playing
with people's futures here.
742
00:38:00,945 --> 00:38:04,437
Decisions you make are
going to have dramatic impact
743
00:38:04,532 --> 00:38:07,319
upon how a person
succeeds or does not succeed.
744
00:38:07,410 --> 00:38:12,245
It was just a decision that
was made and, uh, usually then
745
00:38:12,332 --> 00:38:15,244
you got it in a letter slipped
under your door or something
746
00:38:15,335 --> 00:38:18,077
on a Friday afternoon before
you went off for the weekend.
747
00:38:18,171 --> 00:38:19,536
Anne: So, one evening,
748
00:38:19,631 --> 00:38:21,997
I remember I came back from
working all day at guelph,
749
00:38:22,091 --> 00:38:23,581
and I looked at my table
750
00:38:23,676 --> 00:38:26,713
and I had a letter, and
I thought, "oh, what's this?"
751
00:38:26,805 --> 00:38:29,717
And I opened it up and it said
"you've been denied tenure."
752
00:38:29,808 --> 00:38:33,096
"You can teach one more
year and then you're out,"
753
00:38:33,186 --> 00:38:35,643
which I remember
crying all the way home.
754
00:38:39,442 --> 00:38:40,682
Well, it just meant that
755
00:38:40,777 --> 00:38:43,314
that was the end of
everything that I hoped for.
756
00:38:48,284 --> 00:38:50,070
'Cause, no, I
couldn't be a professor.
757
00:38:50,161 --> 00:38:52,777
That meant
that everything I loved,
758
00:38:52,872 --> 00:38:54,078
working with students and...
759
00:38:54,165 --> 00:38:56,406
It just meant the...
I just couldn't, I just...
760
00:38:56,501 --> 00:38:58,992
It was just very upsetting.
761
00:38:59,087 --> 00:39:00,327
Because it just was so,
762
00:39:00,421 --> 00:39:02,412
so depressing
after working so hard.
763
00:39:04,801 --> 00:39:07,634
I don't think my voice
was heard, quite frankly.
764
00:39:07,720 --> 00:39:10,632
I had spoken in favour of Anne's
profile, and all the others,
765
00:39:10,723 --> 00:39:13,556
as we went around the circle,
were quite negative.
766
00:39:13,643 --> 00:39:17,431
There was a power structure with
four or five male individuals
767
00:39:17,522 --> 00:39:21,231
at the top who certainly
had a strong, strong influence
768
00:39:21,317 --> 00:39:23,524
on the department.
769
00:39:53,308 --> 00:39:55,720
Anne: Did they all tend to vote
whatever Keith voted?
770
00:39:55,810 --> 00:39:58,347
Yes, that
tended to be the pattern.
771
00:39:58,438 --> 00:40:00,599
It was Keith's
line or no line, yes.
772
00:40:00,690 --> 00:40:01,930
And that's when I said,
773
00:40:01,983 --> 00:40:05,521
as far as promotion
and tenure was concerned,
774
00:40:05,612 --> 00:40:08,979
my impression was there was one
mould for a successful academic,
775
00:40:09,073 --> 00:40:11,985
and if you didn't fit
that mould you were out of luck.
776
00:40:12,076 --> 00:40:14,567
Yeah. Yeah.
777
00:40:27,175 --> 00:40:29,917
This is from Dr. Ronald,
who was head of the department.
778
00:40:30,011 --> 00:40:31,947
He says, "the college tenure
and promotion committee
779
00:40:31,971 --> 00:40:34,383
is not satisfied that
these standards have been met."
780
00:40:34,474 --> 00:40:37,807
And for the research it says,
"the quality of publication
781
00:40:37,852 --> 00:40:40,764
does not seem to be of desirable
scientific sophistication.”
782
00:40:40,855 --> 00:40:43,562
And these are some of
the top journals in the world.
783
00:40:43,650 --> 00:40:45,311
I thought that
that was incredibly unfair.
784
00:40:45,401 --> 00:40:46,766
I wrote back and said,
785
00:40:46,861 --> 00:40:49,648
"well, I think this is
wrong and I would like to show
786
00:40:49,739 --> 00:40:51,149
what I've done during the year.”
787
00:40:51,199 --> 00:40:53,406
And so, I did
ask them to reconsider it,
788
00:40:53,493 --> 00:40:55,429
and I remember gathering
together all the information,
789
00:40:55,453 --> 00:40:58,160
and I had a really good
students report on my teaching,
790
00:40:58,247 --> 00:41:00,158
or I had more
papers than most professors.
791
00:41:00,249 --> 00:41:01,489
I'd written books.
792
00:41:01,584 --> 00:41:03,228
They said, "well,
we'll give you one more year,
793
00:41:03,252 --> 00:41:04,913
and then we'll look at it again,
794
00:41:05,004 --> 00:41:07,620
and we'll decide at
that time if you can stay on."
795
00:41:07,715 --> 00:41:09,376
But it was
still the same committee
796
00:41:09,467 --> 00:41:10,877
and they
were behaving so strangely,
797
00:41:10,969 --> 00:41:12,630
so I thought,
"I'll just leave now."
798
00:41:12,720 --> 00:41:14,381
"There's no point
in waiting another year
799
00:41:14,472 --> 00:41:17,305
and then losing the job again.”
800
00:41:36,953 --> 00:41:39,740
Sandy: It's not being fired, but
essentially, that's what it is.
801
00:41:39,831 --> 00:41:41,321
If you're denied tenure,
802
00:41:44,752 --> 00:41:46,663
you're not going to
continue in the department,
803
00:41:46,754 --> 00:41:48,710
and so you would have to move on
804
00:41:48,798 --> 00:41:50,709
to look for
opportunities elsewhere.
805
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:53,758
Anne: I already knew I couldn't
go at the university of Waterloo
806
00:41:53,845 --> 00:41:56,962
because the Dean had said he
wouldn't hire any married women.
807
00:41:57,056 --> 00:41:59,889
If you were a married woman,
your husband would support you,
808
00:41:59,976 --> 00:42:03,184
so, of course she would never be
allowed to be a professor there.
809
00:42:03,271 --> 00:42:05,182
I applied for a
job at wilfred laurier,
810
00:42:05,273 --> 00:42:08,436
but they gave it to a man
with many fewer qualifications.
811
00:42:08,526 --> 00:42:10,266
So I realized it was hopeless.
812
00:42:10,361 --> 00:42:11,942
That was a very low point.
813
00:42:12,030 --> 00:42:15,522
I just thought, you know,
this is so, so hard. Why?
814
00:42:15,616 --> 00:42:17,732
I've done everything
you needed to be good
815
00:42:17,827 --> 00:42:20,318
and then they just said,
"oh, well, you're a woman."
816
00:42:40,141 --> 00:42:44,430
Sandy: I felt that she was
not given a fair hearing.
817
00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:46,852
She was in a department
that had a very
818
00:42:46,939 --> 00:42:49,476
male chauvinistic
attitude towards women.
819
00:42:49,567 --> 00:42:53,856
She ran into
the old boys' network,
820
00:42:53,946 --> 00:42:56,153
she got the
short end of the stick.
821
00:42:56,240 --> 00:42:58,947
I think that
she was unfairly judged
822
00:42:59,035 --> 00:43:01,742
and I think it
destroyed her career.
823
00:43:15,593 --> 00:43:18,209
Mr. Matthew:
"Saturday, march 31, 1973.
824
00:43:18,304 --> 00:43:20,886
"Dear Annie,
825
00:43:20,973 --> 00:43:22,964
"I was sorry to hear
826
00:43:23,017 --> 00:43:25,008
"that at the time of
your February writing,
827
00:43:25,103 --> 00:43:27,469
"you were jobless.
828
00:43:27,563 --> 00:43:29,895
"Don't you have any of your
constitutional rights,
829
00:43:29,982 --> 00:43:33,145
"or even 'women"s lib'
in Canada?"
830
00:43:33,236 --> 00:43:36,694
Anne: Just about all the
universities really, really,
831
00:43:36,781 --> 00:43:39,363
really didn't want to have any
women professors it seemed,
832
00:43:39,450 --> 00:43:40,735
especially in science.
833
00:43:40,827 --> 00:43:43,534
That got me thinking,
if they could do this to me,
834
00:43:43,621 --> 00:43:45,737
I mean, they could
do it to any woman.
835
00:43:45,832 --> 00:43:47,868
In Waterloo, for example,
there were six women.
836
00:43:47,959 --> 00:43:51,167
All of us had phds
and none of us could get a job.
837
00:43:51,254 --> 00:43:53,711
And so, then I thought,
"I'll just push the envelope
838
00:43:53,798 --> 00:43:55,914
"because it isn't just
that I'm saying I'm good,
839
00:43:56,008 --> 00:43:58,249
"I've got the documentation
to show I am good."
840
00:43:58,344 --> 00:44:00,005
And so, I went to the ombudsman
841
00:44:00,096 --> 00:44:02,382
and I went to the
Ontario human rights commission
842
00:44:02,473 --> 00:44:04,930
and I said,
"could you please look into this
843
00:44:05,017 --> 00:44:07,008
"because I think it's unfair."
844
00:44:07,103 --> 00:44:10,391
Mary: This one's "in the matter
of the human rights code, 1970."
845
00:44:10,481 --> 00:44:12,472
Anne: And it's the supreme
court of Ontario.
846
00:44:12,567 --> 00:44:13,977
Mary:
The supreme court of Ontario.
847
00:44:14,068 --> 00:44:15,729
So, you've got you
as the applicant
848
00:44:15,820 --> 00:44:18,106
and then your respondent is
the human rights commission
849
00:44:18,197 --> 00:44:20,108
and the minister of labour.
850
00:44:20,199 --> 00:44:23,441
And the date here is 1979,
851
00:44:23,536 --> 00:44:25,993
wherein the court
refused judicial review.
852
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:28,822
So, I guess you went
to the case, you were denied,
853
00:44:28,875 --> 00:44:30,536
and this is you challenging...
854
00:44:30,626 --> 00:44:33,538
Anne: Actually that's '79.
855
00:44:33,629 --> 00:44:35,540
I left the university
of guelph in '72,
856
00:44:35,631 --> 00:44:38,122
so I fought for 7 years.
857
00:44:38,217 --> 00:44:40,583
Young Anne: "Dear sir or madam,
858
00:44:40,678 --> 00:44:42,589
"as one who has
a case coming before
859
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:44,295
"the Ontario
human rights commission,
860
00:44:44,390 --> 00:44:46,722
"I would like to make a plea
for better communications
861
00:44:46,809 --> 00:44:50,142
"between complainants such
as myself, and the commission.
862
00:44:50,229 --> 00:44:52,686
"Whatever the outcome
of my case may be,
863
00:44:52,773 --> 00:44:55,059
"it has been extremely
distressing..."
864
00:44:55,151 --> 00:44:57,071
"Thinking it was being
heard first in October,
865
00:44:57,153 --> 00:44:58,893
"then November, then December,
866
00:44:58,946 --> 00:45:02,063
"when in reality it has not yet
come before the commission."
867
00:45:02,158 --> 00:45:03,398
Argh!
868
00:45:03,492 --> 00:45:04,732
"The uncertainties and delays
869
00:45:04,785 --> 00:45:06,597
"surely cause more mental
suffering than need be.
870
00:45:06,621 --> 00:45:09,533
"Li know I would be most grateful
to know what's going on."
871
00:45:09,624 --> 00:45:11,410
Yeah, that was
coming from the heart...
872
00:45:11,459 --> 00:45:13,666
When you'd phone them month
after month after month
873
00:45:13,753 --> 00:45:15,960
and they,
"oh, yes, it's going along,
874
00:45:16,047 --> 00:45:18,584
"it will come soon.
Oh, yes." Ugh!
875
00:45:18,674 --> 00:45:20,915
The ombudsman
just said I can't have it
876
00:45:21,010 --> 00:45:22,921
and the human rights
commission went to trial
877
00:45:23,012 --> 00:45:25,503
and John sopinka was
the person fighting me.
878
00:45:25,598 --> 00:45:27,509
And they went on and
argued and argued,
879
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:29,716
and sopinka won,
so I lost again.
880
00:45:33,564 --> 00:45:35,179
I was really deeply depressed.
881
00:45:35,274 --> 00:45:37,890
It seemed there wasn't any
future in the whole world.
882
00:45:37,985 --> 00:45:41,352
You just sulk around
and drive people nuts.
883
00:45:41,447 --> 00:45:43,984
Poor LAN,
and the kids, I'm sure.
884
00:45:44,075 --> 00:45:45,736
You know, you don't
feel like laughing
885
00:45:45,826 --> 00:45:48,693
or really doing
much of anything.
886
00:45:48,788 --> 00:45:50,824
Ian was very supportive of me.
887
00:45:50,915 --> 00:45:53,372
He backed me up.
That was very good of him.
888
00:45:53,459 --> 00:45:55,620
Because many, I think,
would have divorced their wives
889
00:45:55,670 --> 00:45:57,410
if they were that activist.
890
00:45:57,505 --> 00:46:01,168
I think there was probably part
of dad that would have said,
891
00:46:01,259 --> 00:46:03,545
"can you just be a good
professor's wife,
892
00:46:03,636 --> 00:46:05,672
"who's very demure and
entertains
893
00:46:05,763 --> 00:46:07,674
"when professors are visiting
from out of town
894
00:46:07,765 --> 00:46:09,380
"and chats with the wives?"
895
00:46:09,475 --> 00:46:11,261
But having said that,
dad being dad,
896
00:46:11,352 --> 00:46:13,934
he was very supportive.
897
00:46:13,980 --> 00:46:16,687
And a lot of credit to him
because it probably was,
898
00:46:16,774 --> 00:46:18,184
at times, quite stressful,
899
00:46:18,276 --> 00:46:20,545
where he really was hoping
she would be more conservative,
900
00:46:20,569 --> 00:46:22,480
and it just wasn't who she was.
901
00:46:22,571 --> 00:46:25,483
Anne: We had a wonderful
life until he died.
902
00:46:25,574 --> 00:46:27,610
We played tennis twice a week
903
00:46:27,702 --> 00:46:29,613
and badminton often
twice a week as well,
904
00:46:29,704 --> 00:46:31,990
so we did a lot of activity.
905
00:46:32,081 --> 00:46:35,369
And this was our usual Friday
night game, and at the end,
906
00:46:35,459 --> 00:46:37,825
he went to the back
of the court and collapsed
907
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:40,957
and-and...
Yeah, it was... it was terrible.
908
00:46:41,048 --> 00:46:43,881
Yeah.
909
00:47:03,029 --> 00:47:04,644
I had nothing before me
910
00:47:04,739 --> 00:47:06,650
and I didn't know what to do.
911
00:47:06,741 --> 00:47:09,027
But then I thought,
"well, what I could do
912
00:47:09,076 --> 00:47:10,737
"is write a book
about the giraffe."
913
00:47:10,828 --> 00:47:14,036
I had done my own studies and I
had a friend, Bristol foster,
914
00:47:14,081 --> 00:47:16,948
who had been working in the
field for five years.
915
00:47:17,043 --> 00:47:20,911
Together, we decided to write
a whole book about giraffe.
916
00:47:21,005 --> 00:47:24,418
A lot of it was from what I
learned at Fleur de lys.
917
00:47:24,508 --> 00:47:27,170
Here we are.
918
00:47:27,261 --> 00:47:28,797
So, this is "the Bible."
919
00:47:28,888 --> 00:47:31,004
And it just has
a picture of a giraffe
920
00:47:31,098 --> 00:47:33,714
and it has lots of diagrams
921
00:47:33,809 --> 00:47:36,391
and various chapters
on what happens for giraffe.
922
00:47:36,479 --> 00:47:39,221
I've been collecting books on
Africa since I was a kid.
923
00:47:39,315 --> 00:47:40,976
That's really
when I got into Africa,
924
00:47:41,067 --> 00:47:44,059
and the Anne dagg and foster
book was the Bible on giraffe,
925
00:47:44,111 --> 00:47:47,524
and it was one of the first in
my collection. It had to be.
926
00:47:47,615 --> 00:47:48,821
Even as a 15, 16-year-old,
927
00:47:48,908 --> 00:47:51,274
I knew that was a book
I needed to get.
928
00:47:51,369 --> 00:47:52,569
Zoe: I first became interested
929
00:47:52,620 --> 00:47:54,781
in looking at giraffe
behaviour and biology
930
00:47:54,872 --> 00:47:56,828
when I was studying
for my master's degree.
931
00:47:56,916 --> 00:47:59,282
And of course,
when I went to do some research
932
00:47:59,377 --> 00:48:00,992
about what we knew about
giraffes,
933
00:48:01,087 --> 00:48:03,544
Anne dagg's name was
the first thing that came up,
934
00:48:03,631 --> 00:48:06,589
and, really, the only book
available was her book.
935
00:48:06,634 --> 00:48:09,125
Anne's book was the only
book that you could find
936
00:48:09,220 --> 00:48:11,962
that covered giraffe
ecology and biology
937
00:48:12,056 --> 00:48:13,466
and a little bit
about management
938
00:48:13,557 --> 00:48:15,138
and wild captive populations.
939
00:48:15,226 --> 00:48:17,182
It's a book that you'd find
940
00:48:17,269 --> 00:48:18,663
on every giraffe
keeper's bookshelf.
941
00:48:18,687 --> 00:48:20,598
It's just the Bible
to giraffe, really.
942
00:48:20,689 --> 00:48:22,350
Amy: When I was in high school
943
00:48:22,441 --> 00:48:25,854
and I knew I wanted to be a
giraffe keeper... 1 loved them...
944
00:48:25,945 --> 00:48:27,151
I read her first book.
945
00:48:27,238 --> 00:48:29,604
And it was really hard to get
through at 15,
946
00:48:29,698 --> 00:48:32,610
but I did it, and I highlighted
it, and I took notes,
947
00:48:32,701 --> 00:48:34,111
and I memorized
every little piece
948
00:48:34,203 --> 00:48:36,945
of giraffe information
I could find.
949
00:48:37,039 --> 00:48:39,155
And working in this field,
there was nothing else
950
00:48:39,250 --> 00:48:41,241
really coming out
for a really long time.
951
00:48:41,335 --> 00:48:43,792
I had worked in
the field for over ten years
952
00:48:43,879 --> 00:48:45,790
and most of what
we relied on still
953
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:48,081
was Anne's book
from so long ago.
954
00:49:01,939 --> 00:49:03,554
Anne: About 30 years passed
955
00:49:03,649 --> 00:49:05,981
when I really didn't have
any contact with giraffe.
956
00:49:06,068 --> 00:49:07,729
I couldn't
afford to go to Africa
957
00:49:07,820 --> 00:49:09,481
because I didn't
have any research money
958
00:49:09,572 --> 00:49:11,278
because I never
could get a position
959
00:49:11,365 --> 00:49:12,525
that allowed me to teach
960
00:49:12,616 --> 00:49:14,777
or earn any reasonable salary.
961
00:49:16,370 --> 00:49:19,578
I guess it just closed off
one happy part of me.
962
00:49:36,390 --> 00:49:38,881
As the years went on,
I kept on writing things
963
00:49:38,976 --> 00:49:42,343
and I wrote many
scientific books on animals,
964
00:49:42,438 --> 00:49:45,180
but much of the rest
of my life was fighting,
965
00:49:45,274 --> 00:49:47,139
trying to get
fairness for women.
966
00:49:47,234 --> 00:49:49,600
I wrote various feminist books
967
00:49:49,695 --> 00:49:51,936
and decided to
spend a lot of my energy
968
00:49:52,031 --> 00:49:55,740
trying to expose the sexism
in universities across Canada.
969
00:49:55,826 --> 00:49:58,568
I got together with other women
and we formed committees
970
00:49:58,662 --> 00:50:01,404
and we did all sorts of
things for about 20 years,
971
00:50:01,499 --> 00:50:03,535
just worked at it all the time.
972
00:50:03,626 --> 00:50:05,833
I'm not sure that
we made that much progress,
973
00:50:05,878 --> 00:50:08,369
but it felt good to complain.
974
00:50:09,965 --> 00:50:12,027
Eventually, I wrote this book
called pursuing giraffe.
975
00:50:12,051 --> 00:50:15,214
So, this was just looking back
at the year I spent in Africa
976
00:50:15,304 --> 00:50:17,044
and everything that happened.
977
00:50:17,139 --> 00:50:19,881
Amy: She published pursuing
giraffe and I thought,
978
00:50:19,975 --> 00:50:22,182
"oh! Something new from Anne!"
979
00:50:22,269 --> 00:50:25,511
You know, it was this
amazing opportunity
980
00:50:25,606 --> 00:50:27,187
to learn more about this person,
981
00:50:27,274 --> 00:50:31,768
this young woman who did
this amazing, brave thing.
982
00:50:31,862 --> 00:50:35,070
Her contribution so many years
later was still so great.
983
00:50:35,115 --> 00:50:37,322
But in this field
where we needed that expertise
984
00:50:37,409 --> 00:50:41,573
and we used it every day,
we didn't know her.
985
00:50:45,084 --> 00:50:47,416
Fred: Anne's name is not
known in the public.
986
00:50:47,503 --> 00:50:49,164
Part of it is because
987
00:50:49,255 --> 00:50:51,371
she just didn't have
the PR media behind her.
988
00:50:51,465 --> 00:50:52,875
She had herself
989
00:50:52,967 --> 00:50:55,583
and she was doing her science,
and that's it.
990
00:50:55,678 --> 00:50:57,589
And part of it is
people are infatuated
991
00:50:57,680 --> 00:51:00,513
with chimpanzees because they
can see themselves in them.
992
00:51:00,599 --> 00:51:02,385
Giraffe... everyone likes,
993
00:51:02,476 --> 00:51:04,436
but they just don't have
their heartstrings pulled
994
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:07,307
and they just can't
identify with them.
995
00:51:07,398 --> 00:51:09,229
There is this
kind of odd paradox
996
00:51:09,275 --> 00:51:12,392
that people love giraffes
and yet somehow,
997
00:51:12,486 --> 00:51:14,602
they don't receive
that global attention
998
00:51:14,697 --> 00:51:17,564
in a way that primates
or elephants do.
999
00:51:17,616 --> 00:51:20,403
There may be a sort
of element of alienness.
1000
00:51:20,494 --> 00:51:22,906
Giraffes are kind of
other, aren't they?
1001
00:51:22,997 --> 00:51:24,908
They're about as
likely as a unicorn.
1002
00:51:24,999 --> 00:51:26,159
They're so different from us.
1003
00:51:26,250 --> 00:51:27,911
Andy: For whatever reason,
1004
00:51:28,002 --> 00:51:30,459
the giraffe doesn't attract
the attention that it deserves,
1005
00:51:30,546 --> 00:51:31,877
and that's the reason
1006
00:51:31,964 --> 00:51:34,376
why I think Anne has
slipped under the radar.
1007
00:51:39,763 --> 00:51:41,549
Amy: I was the little girl
1008
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:46,259
that that woman was a hero for,
1009
00:51:46,353 --> 00:51:49,436
and so it was
really important to me
1010
00:51:49,523 --> 00:51:51,388
that we be able to find her.
1011
00:51:51,483 --> 00:51:54,145
And we were putting together
our conference and we thought,
1012
00:51:54,236 --> 00:51:55,476
"wouldn't that be amazing
1013
00:51:55,571 --> 00:51:57,732
"if we could find this woman
who wrote this text,
1014
00:51:57,823 --> 00:52:00,690
"and we could bring
her back into the fold
1015
00:52:00,784 --> 00:52:03,776
"and see what she's doing
and see what she's about."
1016
00:52:03,871 --> 00:52:05,611
We were searching for Anne
1017
00:52:05,706 --> 00:52:09,290
because we really didn't know
if she was still alive or...
1018
00:52:09,335 --> 00:52:12,418
We all worked together
to track down information
1019
00:52:12,504 --> 00:52:13,914
about how we could contact her,
1020
00:52:14,006 --> 00:52:16,247
and we sent her
an email and just said,
1021
00:52:16,342 --> 00:52:17,832
"we'd love to have you here
1022
00:52:17,926 --> 00:52:20,212
"and we'd like to
present you with this award.”
1023
00:52:20,304 --> 00:52:23,091
I had no idea giraffe
even had conferences
1024
00:52:23,182 --> 00:52:26,094
because I'd been cut off from
the subject for so many years.
1025
00:52:26,185 --> 00:52:28,141
When Amy got a hold of me,
1026
00:52:28,228 --> 00:52:30,514
I was stunned and incredibly
excited to be invited
1027
00:52:30,606 --> 00:52:33,598
and said, "yes, yes, yes,
I want to come."
1028
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:37,981
It's huge! I mean, it's huge!
1029
00:52:38,072 --> 00:52:39,687
Yeah.
1030
00:52:45,454 --> 00:52:49,572
Hi Anne, I'm Dana. Welcome!
1031
00:53:02,638 --> 00:53:04,378
Look at that, eh?
1032
00:53:04,431 --> 00:53:07,719
Excellence in
giraffe science award.
1033
00:53:07,810 --> 00:53:09,220
"You authored 20 books,
1034
00:53:09,311 --> 00:53:11,768
"countless trailblazing
scientific papers,
1035
00:53:11,855 --> 00:53:13,686
"and inspiration for many."
1036
00:53:13,774 --> 00:53:15,765
You didn't know
your mother was so clever!
1037
00:53:15,859 --> 00:53:17,520
I didn't, no, no.
1038
00:53:17,611 --> 00:53:20,353
Her love of giraffe,
which had always been there,
1039
00:53:20,447 --> 00:53:22,859
maybe lying dormant,
suddenly came alive again.
1040
00:53:22,950 --> 00:53:25,282
And being invited to
conferences like this,
1041
00:53:25,369 --> 00:53:26,654
suddenly getting awards,
1042
00:53:26,745 --> 00:53:28,723
where she was being told
you inspired all these people,
1043
00:53:28,747 --> 00:53:31,409
this piece of her life that
seemed a long time ago
1044
00:53:31,500 --> 00:53:33,786
all came back,
bubbled up to the surface,
1045
00:53:33,877 --> 00:53:35,959
and it was just so
exciting for her
1046
00:53:36,046 --> 00:53:37,286
and it was just overwhelming.
1047
00:53:37,381 --> 00:53:38,791
Gareth: The queue to meet her
1048
00:53:38,882 --> 00:53:40,793
was like queuing up
to meet a beatle.
1049
00:53:40,884 --> 00:53:43,000
Everybody wanted to see her.
I took my book
1050
00:53:43,095 --> 00:53:45,302
that I bought
when I was 17 years old
1051
00:53:45,389 --> 00:53:47,755
to the conference
so she could sign it for me.
1052
00:53:47,850 --> 00:53:49,761
I confess to being
a shameless autograph hunter
1053
00:53:49,852 --> 00:53:52,764
because I brought my book
with me that I've had for years.
1054
00:53:52,855 --> 00:53:54,811
Zoe:
I was super excited to meet her,
1055
00:53:54,898 --> 00:53:56,263
a little bit intimidated.
1056
00:53:56,358 --> 00:53:59,020
But what struck me the most
is how interested she was
1057
00:53:59,111 --> 00:54:01,443
in everybody else's work.
She was really passionate about
1058
00:54:01,530 --> 00:54:03,486
listening to what
you were doing with giraffes
1059
00:54:03,574 --> 00:54:05,656
and she just genuinely
wanted to know more.
1060
00:54:05,743 --> 00:54:09,281
David: Even though she thought
that she was forgotten,
1061
00:54:09,371 --> 00:54:11,578
she was very well known
in the giraffe community.
1062
00:54:11,665 --> 00:54:14,782
She was a legend, she was
literally our Jane goodall,
1063
00:54:14,877 --> 00:54:18,290
and she founded
the study of giraffe biology.
1064
00:54:18,380 --> 00:54:20,917
Isn't that good?
Some more? Yeah.
1065
00:54:22,509 --> 00:54:24,921
Chew that one and then
you can have... oh, okay.
1066
00:54:26,638 --> 00:54:29,471
Fred: To me, having a pioneer
at a meeting like this,
1067
00:54:29,516 --> 00:54:31,256
a figurehead who's
published everything...
1068
00:54:31,351 --> 00:54:33,262
You won't get
a giraffe article out there
1069
00:54:33,353 --> 00:54:34,809
unless you cite Anne dagg...
1070
00:54:34,897 --> 00:54:37,263
Seeing her in person
works wonders for students
1071
00:54:37,357 --> 00:54:39,063
and zookeepers to
interact with her.
1072
00:54:39,151 --> 00:54:40,891
Anne: This was just magic
1073
00:54:40,986 --> 00:54:43,102
to find you had
a whole community of people
1074
00:54:43,197 --> 00:54:45,028
that loved animals as you did.
1075
00:54:45,115 --> 00:54:46,776
And they all seemed to know me
1076
00:54:46,867 --> 00:54:49,779
because of the book I'd written
and it was one happy conference.
1077
00:54:49,870 --> 00:54:51,485
It was... it was wonderful.
1078
00:54:51,580 --> 00:54:54,071
Amy: It was the beginning of,
I guess, this chapter,
1079
00:54:54,166 --> 00:54:55,497
which, I think,
1080
00:54:55,584 --> 00:54:57,825
is one of the things I'm most
proud of in my career,
1081
00:54:57,920 --> 00:54:59,581
that I have the great privilege
1082
00:54:59,671 --> 00:55:01,627
of being part
of a group of women
1083
00:55:01,715 --> 00:55:03,797
that brought her
back to this field.
1084
00:55:03,884 --> 00:55:05,795
John: Before I present
Anne with the award,
1085
00:55:05,886 --> 00:55:07,296
I'd just like to say that
1086
00:55:07,387 --> 00:55:10,220
I feel sometimes
increasingly isolated in a world
1087
00:55:10,307 --> 00:55:12,798
where the definition
of wildness is changing.
1088
00:55:16,021 --> 00:55:17,477
That I'm not alone
1089
00:55:17,564 --> 00:55:21,102
in clinging onto
the idea of a real wild world.
1090
00:55:21,193 --> 00:55:22,558
So, with that,
1091
00:55:22,653 --> 00:55:25,520
I'd like to invite you to
come up to the stage, Anne.
1092
00:56:01,275 --> 00:56:04,392
Anne: I always wanted to go
back to Africa and see giraffe,
1093
00:56:04,486 --> 00:56:06,351
but I would have
thought it very unlikely.
1094
00:56:06,446 --> 00:56:09,108
I had no contact there at all.
1095
00:56:09,199 --> 00:56:12,191
Lisa: I learned that she hadn't
been back to Africa
1096
00:56:12,286 --> 00:56:14,777
and I told her
that I would be coming back.
1097
00:56:14,872 --> 00:56:17,363
If she wanted to come,
she was more than welcome.
1098
00:56:17,457 --> 00:56:18,788
We will be travelling
1099
00:56:18,876 --> 00:56:20,603
and seeing giraffe in many
different situations,
1100
00:56:20,627 --> 00:56:25,166
please come,
and eventually, she said yes.
1101
00:56:34,558 --> 00:56:37,391
Anne: When you think that
I haven't been to Africa
1102
00:56:37,477 --> 00:56:39,513
for half a century,
it's a scary thought.
1103
00:56:55,245 --> 00:56:57,827
Hi. Oh, it's so good to be here.
1104
00:56:57,915 --> 00:57:00,952
Welcome back to Africa.
1105
00:57:01,043 --> 00:57:03,204
It has been a long time.
1106
00:57:03,295 --> 00:57:06,332
Lisa: Hi, how are you? Oh,
welcome, welcome, welcome.
1107
00:57:06,423 --> 00:57:08,914
Oh.
1108
00:57:10,928 --> 00:57:14,716
Oh, it's so good to be here.
1109
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:55,093
When I was in Africa
in the early days,
1110
00:57:55,180 --> 00:57:57,296
60 years ago,
it never crossed my mind
1111
00:57:57,391 --> 00:57:59,347
that there wouldn't be
giraffe forever in Africa.
1112
00:57:59,434 --> 00:58:00,874
It just...
It just was inconceivable.
1113
00:58:00,936 --> 00:58:03,848
I thought I could study them
all the rest of my life
1114
00:58:03,897 --> 00:58:06,980
and there'd be
still equal numbers.
1115
00:58:07,067 --> 00:58:09,854
Mr. Matthew: "April 4, 1974.
1116
00:58:09,945 --> 00:58:13,563
"Dear Annie,
do you still have the film
1117
00:58:13,657 --> 00:58:15,864
"that you made of
the Fleur de lys giraffes?
1118
00:58:15,951 --> 00:58:18,658
"Sad to say, those that are left
1119
00:58:18,745 --> 00:58:20,986
"have to put up
with an air polluted
1120
00:58:21,081 --> 00:58:22,821
"with automobile exhaust,
1121
00:58:22,916 --> 00:58:26,204
"the reek of hot asphalt
from the black top highways
1122
00:58:26,294 --> 00:58:30,082
"that now cut through Fleur
de lys in all directions.
1123
00:58:30,173 --> 00:58:32,380
"How lucky we were
1124
00:58:32,467 --> 00:58:36,380
"to know it all before this
development took place.
1125
00:58:38,306 --> 00:58:41,013
Anne:
The situation now is appalling.
1126
00:58:41,101 --> 00:58:42,841
Everyone is worried
about the elephants,
1127
00:58:42,936 --> 00:58:45,643
but no one has been worried
about the giraffe at all,
1128
00:58:45,731 --> 00:58:48,188
whose numbers are far less.
1129
00:58:50,152 --> 00:58:53,940
John: In 1998, there were
an estimated 28,000
1130
00:58:54,031 --> 00:58:56,613
reticulated giraffes
throughout their range.
1131
00:58:56,700 --> 00:58:59,442
And we think
that there are certainly
1132
00:58:59,536 --> 00:59:02,073
no more than 5,000 left.
1133
00:59:02,164 --> 00:59:06,453
That's greater than
an 80% decline in 15 years.
1134
00:59:06,543 --> 00:59:09,455
80% in 15 years is a crash.
1135
00:59:09,546 --> 00:59:11,127
You know, that's a population
1136
00:59:11,214 --> 00:59:14,377
that is plummeting
towards extinction.
1137
00:59:14,468 --> 00:59:16,379
And of course,
that's happening across Africa.
1138
00:59:16,428 --> 00:59:18,134
There's been a 30 or 40% decline
1139
00:59:18,221 --> 00:59:21,384
in the total
giraffe population in Africa.
1140
00:59:21,433 --> 00:59:23,845
Anne: They're being killed for
bush meat all the time.
1141
00:59:23,935 --> 00:59:26,426
The reticulated giraffe
population
1142
00:59:26,480 --> 00:59:28,641
is near 12.5 million people
that have no homes.
1143
00:59:28,732 --> 00:59:30,142
They've been chased out by war.
1144
00:59:30,233 --> 00:59:32,474
And if they saw a giraffe,
you can reason,
1145
00:59:32,569 --> 00:59:33,979
"well, you know,
I'm really hungry,
1146
00:59:34,071 --> 00:59:36,687
"and my children are hungry,
why don't we just kill it?"
1147
00:59:36,782 --> 00:59:38,693
I mean, you can just
see that happening.
1148
00:59:38,784 --> 00:59:40,303
John: That's quite
different, isn't it?
1149
00:59:40,327 --> 00:59:42,739
When people are eating wild
animals, it might be illegal,
1150
00:59:42,829 --> 00:59:43,864
it might be undesirable,
1151
00:59:43,955 --> 00:59:45,516
it might ultimately lead
to the extinction
1152
00:59:45,540 --> 00:59:47,747
of some of the creatures
that I care about
1153
00:59:47,834 --> 00:59:49,745
and a lot of other
people care about.
1154
00:59:49,795 --> 00:59:52,273
But if somebody's starving, if
all their livestock have died...
1155
00:59:52,297 --> 00:59:53,707
The goats,
the sheep, the cattle,
1156
00:59:53,799 --> 00:59:55,209
if even the camels have died...
1157
00:59:55,300 --> 00:59:58,087
It's very hard to
blame people who are starving.
1158
01:00:01,389 --> 01:00:04,631
We got a call because a giraffe
had been hit in the night.
1159
01:00:04,726 --> 01:00:07,684
So, by the time we got there,
as the sun was rising,
1160
01:00:07,771 --> 01:00:09,762
people were gathering
from all directions
1161
01:00:09,815 --> 01:00:11,055
with sacks and machetes
1162
01:00:11,149 --> 01:00:13,029
because this was a bonanza
for the local people.
1163
01:00:13,110 --> 01:00:16,318
But there were so many people
trying to get hold of this meat
1164
01:00:16,404 --> 01:00:18,611
that there was not a scrap left.
1165
01:00:18,698 --> 01:00:20,188
Does it remind you
1166
01:00:20,283 --> 01:00:22,774
of the giraffe that
was shot by the ranger at...
1167
01:00:22,869 --> 01:00:25,110
Oh yeah, yeah, for sure.
1168
01:00:25,205 --> 01:00:27,116
What they did was,
for example, the neck,
1169
01:00:27,207 --> 01:00:29,414
they just cut it
into a lot of bits
1170
01:00:29,501 --> 01:00:32,038
and people were
biking away with a roll of neck.
1171
01:00:32,129 --> 01:00:34,836
When the female giraffe
was cut up,
1172
01:00:34,881 --> 01:00:37,418
out sort of slithered this
beautiful little foetus.
1173
01:00:37,509 --> 01:00:38,949
You know,
it meant that, effectively,
1174
01:00:39,010 --> 01:00:41,217
we lost two giraffes
that day instead of one.
1175
01:00:41,304 --> 01:00:42,464
Yeah. Poor little thing.
1176
01:00:42,556 --> 01:00:43,716
Oh, that is so sad.
1177
01:00:43,807 --> 01:00:45,889
Yeah, yeah.
1178
01:00:49,563 --> 01:00:52,896
Anne: Jacob leaidura has lived
in this area all his life.
1179
01:00:52,983 --> 01:00:55,395
When he was born,
there were a lot more giraffe,
1180
01:00:55,485 --> 01:00:59,353
so he's seen a
lot of them being wiped out.
1181
01:01:10,542 --> 01:01:12,658
With John,
the two work in tandem,
1182
01:01:12,752 --> 01:01:15,334
and together,
they're trying to figure out
1183
01:01:15,422 --> 01:01:18,835
how to keep giraffe alive.
1184
01:01:35,859 --> 01:01:37,099
Right.
1185
01:01:40,530 --> 01:01:43,272
Anne: Right now, are you living
just outside the reserve or...
1186
01:01:43,366 --> 01:01:44,526
Jacob: Oh, yes, yeah.
1187
01:01:44,618 --> 01:01:46,609
And you'd like that
if you could stay there?
1188
01:01:46,703 --> 01:01:48,659
Oh, yes. Water willing, eh?
1189
01:01:48,747 --> 01:01:50,453
Yes. Lots of rain.
1190
01:02:01,426 --> 01:02:03,257
And these are sheep
and cattle mostly?
1191
01:02:03,303 --> 01:02:04,303
Oh, yes.
1192
01:02:43,969 --> 01:02:47,962
Anne: It's absolutely essential
that the children of Africa
1193
01:02:48,056 --> 01:02:49,717
be really involved
in their heritage
1194
01:02:49,808 --> 01:02:52,345
and in all the animals
living in their area.
1195
01:02:52,435 --> 01:02:55,927
Do you know why the
tongue is so long?
1196
01:02:56,022 --> 01:02:58,889
I mean, why would you need a
tongue that comes way out?
1197
01:03:02,904 --> 01:03:04,610
No, they don't know.
1198
01:03:04,698 --> 01:03:06,859
You think you can guess?
1199
01:03:06,950 --> 01:03:08,315
Okay, go on.
1200
01:03:08,410 --> 01:03:11,447
So that the giraffe
can pick leaves.
1201
01:03:11,538 --> 01:03:14,075
Right! Very good!
1202
01:03:14,165 --> 01:03:16,030
It's their country,
it's their giraffe,
1203
01:03:16,126 --> 01:03:18,037
it's they who
are going to be either
1204
01:03:18,128 --> 01:03:19,743
not having them or having them.
1205
01:03:19,838 --> 01:03:21,669
What I want to know is,
1206
01:03:21,715 --> 01:03:24,172
which animal do you think
is the most dangerous predator
1207
01:03:24,217 --> 01:03:25,627
of the giraffe?
1208
01:03:27,012 --> 01:03:28,593
Lion.
1209
01:03:28,680 --> 01:03:30,466
Interpreter: The lion, miss.
John: Lion.
1210
01:03:30,557 --> 01:03:31,637
Interpreter: Yes?
1211
01:03:31,683 --> 01:03:32,889
Leopard. Leopard.
1212
01:03:32,976 --> 01:03:35,217
The most dangerous
predator of the giraffe
1213
01:03:35,312 --> 01:03:38,304
is the one that you see
when you go to the bathroom
1214
01:03:38,356 --> 01:03:39,846
and you look in the mirror.
1215
01:03:39,941 --> 01:03:41,932
It's the human being.
1216
01:03:44,154 --> 01:03:47,442
Anne: If you can get the young
people in the tribal areas,
1217
01:03:47,532 --> 01:03:49,363
then that's going
to be the difference.
1218
01:03:49,451 --> 01:03:51,612
A lot of them have
never seen a giraffe.
1219
01:03:51,703 --> 01:03:53,864
It seems unbelievable that
they live right among them,
1220
01:03:53,955 --> 01:03:55,741
but they've
never seen a giraffe.
1221
01:04:18,730 --> 01:04:21,221
Francois: To bring down a
giraffe is really dangerous,
1222
01:04:21,316 --> 01:04:23,477
and I always use
the same capture team
1223
01:04:23,568 --> 01:04:25,229
and the same experienced people,
1224
01:04:25,320 --> 01:04:27,311
so that we don't make mistakes.
1225
01:04:27,405 --> 01:04:31,944
What we've learned by collaring
giraffe, in my view,
1226
01:04:32,035 --> 01:04:35,903
completely changed the way
we are thinking about giraffe.
1227
01:04:38,625 --> 01:04:41,662
Every time, she's on the ground,
the vet will take blood samples
1228
01:04:41,753 --> 01:04:45,086
and hair samples and internal
parasites, external parasites,
1229
01:04:45,131 --> 01:04:46,371
even faecal samples,
1230
01:04:46,466 --> 01:04:48,878
and we'll try and collect
as much as possible.
1231
01:04:51,304 --> 01:04:52,464
We always cover the eyes
1232
01:04:52,555 --> 01:04:54,386
and we'll cover the ears,
1233
01:04:54,474 --> 01:04:58,968
so the least amount of stress
is added to the process.
1234
01:04:59,062 --> 01:05:00,643
I'm the youngest
1235
01:05:00,730 --> 01:05:03,267
giraffe scientist with active
boots on the ground,
1236
01:05:03,358 --> 01:05:08,148
and I think Anne would be the
oldest giraffe scientist
1237
01:05:08,238 --> 01:05:10,820
living and still pitching ideas.
1238
01:05:10,907 --> 01:05:13,614
He's doing all the cutting-edge
research, which is so cool.
1239
01:05:13,701 --> 01:05:16,989
And I guess most of it,
he just completed his phd,
1240
01:05:17,080 --> 01:05:19,492
so this is really exciting.
1241
01:05:19,582 --> 01:05:23,291
My first objective was just
to design a GPS collar
1242
01:05:23,378 --> 01:05:25,494
that will fit, that is
not harming the animal
1243
01:05:25,588 --> 01:05:27,044
or influencing
its natural behaviour.
1244
01:05:27,132 --> 01:05:31,125
My first collars only
collected every four hours.
1245
01:05:31,219 --> 01:05:32,880
This ear tag just behind the ear
1246
01:05:32,971 --> 01:05:37,681
can do it every five minutes
and go two years longer.
1247
01:05:37,767 --> 01:05:41,134
What we're doing now is
I would use a little drone,
1248
01:05:41,229 --> 01:05:43,641
type in the coordinates
where the giraffe is.
1249
01:05:43,731 --> 01:05:45,187
I send the drone
1250
01:05:45,275 --> 01:05:47,857
to take aerial footage of the
giraffe, see if she's fine...
1251
01:05:47,944 --> 01:05:49,559
Anne: Can you do this now?
1252
01:05:49,654 --> 01:05:51,815
Francois: Yes.
1253
01:06:00,290 --> 01:06:02,497
The giraffe showed
and identified
1254
01:06:02,584 --> 01:06:05,917
the areas they prefer, so I
could go and evaluate that area,
1255
01:06:06,004 --> 01:06:07,710
compared to the areas
they don't prefer.
1256
01:06:07,797 --> 01:06:08,797
Right.
1257
01:06:08,882 --> 01:06:10,292
And what is their
habitat qualities
1258
01:06:10,383 --> 01:06:12,294
and how we can
maintain or sustain that
1259
01:06:12,385 --> 01:06:14,376
in management principles.
1260
01:06:14,471 --> 01:06:16,257
We can forget
about saving giraffe
1261
01:06:16,347 --> 01:06:18,838
if we don't protect
the habitat they live in.
1262
01:06:18,933 --> 01:06:20,639
Exactly.
1263
01:06:33,573 --> 01:06:37,361
Jason pootoolal works
at the African lion safari.
1264
01:06:37,452 --> 01:06:38,783
We've become good buddies
1265
01:06:38,870 --> 01:06:41,327
because we're so close
and I can drive over there
1266
01:06:41,414 --> 01:06:42,745
and see the giraffe.
1267
01:06:42,832 --> 01:06:45,323
When Jason said they had a baby
giraffe, it was exciting
1268
01:06:45,418 --> 01:06:47,521
because it had been done
with artificial insemination,
1269
01:06:47,545 --> 01:06:50,207
and this was one of the
few times in the world
1270
01:06:50,298 --> 01:06:53,005
that it had been done,
and it was done in Canada.
1271
01:06:53,092 --> 01:06:54,298
Hey, hey! Surprise, surprise!
1272
01:06:54,385 --> 01:06:56,751
Nice to see you!
1273
01:06:58,973 --> 01:07:01,931
So, Mara, the one with the head
up, is the bigger sister.
1274
01:07:02,018 --> 01:07:03,929
So, she's generally gentle
with the other one.
1275
01:07:04,020 --> 01:07:06,978
And Sahara's the little sister,
so you can see she fights dirty.
1276
01:07:07,065 --> 01:07:08,555
She always goes for the legs.
1277
01:07:08,650 --> 01:07:10,891
I mean, I've never really
seen female giraffes spar.
1278
01:07:10,985 --> 01:07:12,521
Anne: That's fantastic.
1279
01:07:12,612 --> 01:07:14,227
That's not even
in the literature.
1280
01:07:14,322 --> 01:07:16,404
You've got to
get it in there. Hi.
1281
01:07:16,491 --> 01:07:20,825
One more?
Oh, you must be so full.
1282
01:07:20,912 --> 01:07:22,903
Jason: Right now, there's
a giraffe pregnant
1283
01:07:22,997 --> 01:07:24,828
with an artificially
inseminated embryo,
1284
01:07:24,916 --> 01:07:27,532
and so we're going
to be able to take a look
1285
01:07:27,627 --> 01:07:30,118
and see how
that baby is developing.
1286
01:07:33,633 --> 01:07:35,715
Back!
1287
01:07:35,802 --> 01:07:37,167
Thank you.
1288
01:07:37,262 --> 01:07:38,672
Anne: She's not worried, is she?
1289
01:07:38,763 --> 01:07:40,424
Jason:
No, she does this quite often.
1290
01:07:40,515 --> 01:07:41,721
Anne: All the time? Yep.
1291
01:07:41,808 --> 01:07:45,426
That's one long sleeve.
1292
01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:48,182
I've got a far way to go.
1293
01:07:53,194 --> 01:07:55,355
It's a bit of
a search to find it.
1294
01:07:55,446 --> 01:07:56,686
How old is the baby?
1295
01:07:56,781 --> 01:07:58,146
168 days, I believe. Wow.
1296
01:07:58,241 --> 01:07:59,651
So, there's
the heart beating there.
1297
01:07:59,742 --> 01:08:01,403
Oh, oh, you can see it beating!
1298
01:08:01,494 --> 01:08:03,860
The heart is one of the
early things to develop.
1299
01:08:03,955 --> 01:08:06,662
So, even when it's kind of this
amorphous shape of life,
1300
01:08:06,749 --> 01:08:08,580
you can see
a little heart beating.
1301
01:08:08,626 --> 01:08:11,163
So, there, the neck,
you can see it's curling down.
1302
01:08:11,254 --> 01:08:12,254
Oh, yeah, right.
1303
01:08:12,338 --> 01:08:13,857
And so, the literature
always said that
1304
01:08:13,881 --> 01:08:15,401
the giraffes probably
develop like this
1305
01:08:15,425 --> 01:08:18,383
later in their gestation, but we
were able to see they get...
1306
01:08:18,469 --> 01:08:20,835
All the tell-tale signs of a
giraffe happen very early.
1307
01:08:20,930 --> 01:08:22,886
And you can see the
brain there developing.
1308
01:08:22,974 --> 01:08:25,090
Oh, that's amazing! Wow.
1309
01:08:25,184 --> 01:08:27,550
And you do this just to make
sure everything's okay?
1310
01:08:27,645 --> 01:08:29,055
Exactly, yes, and not only that,
1311
01:08:29,147 --> 01:08:31,058
because this is
the only herd of giraffe
1312
01:08:31,149 --> 01:08:33,389
that's followed this way,
we're able to take measurements
1313
01:08:33,443 --> 01:08:35,775
and actually track how
the giraffe grows.
1314
01:08:35,862 --> 01:08:38,353
So, not just al versus natural,
1315
01:08:38,448 --> 01:08:41,986
like it's just to study giraffe
reproduction in general.
1316
01:08:46,706 --> 01:08:48,287
These animals that we have now
1317
01:08:48,374 --> 01:08:50,330
are being
artificially inseminated
1318
01:08:50,418 --> 01:08:52,750
with genetic material that
has been stored for years
1319
01:08:52,837 --> 01:08:55,374
and years in cryo-tanks.
It gives us the hope
1320
01:08:55,465 --> 01:08:57,626
that these animals
that are no longer with us
1321
01:08:57,717 --> 01:09:00,675
are able to still contribute to
a larger genetic population.
1322
01:09:00,762 --> 01:09:03,925
That's janga. He's special
because he's the first giraffe
1323
01:09:04,015 --> 01:09:06,222
conceived using frozen semen.
1324
01:09:06,309 --> 01:09:08,470
Our tank's now full
of genetic material
1325
01:09:08,561 --> 01:09:12,145
that we're going to be able to
use as long as we possibly need.
1326
01:09:12,982 --> 01:09:16,520
Oh. Oh.
1327
01:09:16,611 --> 01:09:18,147
Getting back
into the giraffe community
1328
01:09:18,237 --> 01:09:19,727
really changed my life.
1329
01:09:19,822 --> 01:09:22,939
I met all sorts of people that I
can now email with all the time
1330
01:09:23,034 --> 01:09:24,820
and because
I met all these people,
1331
01:09:24,911 --> 01:09:27,118
when Cambridge university press
wanted to have a new,
1332
01:09:27,205 --> 01:09:28,536
updated giraffe book,
1333
01:09:28,623 --> 01:09:30,705
now I knew individuals
working in all these areas.
1334
01:09:30,792 --> 01:09:32,123
I could talk to them,
1335
01:09:32,210 --> 01:09:34,271
find out what they thought
were the important papers,
1336
01:09:34,295 --> 01:09:36,502
and that enabled me
to write a new book
1337
01:09:36,589 --> 01:09:39,376
on the science of giraffes.
1338
01:09:41,177 --> 01:09:42,508
Fred: She had put together
1339
01:09:42,595 --> 01:09:44,586
all the information available
for her first book.
1340
01:09:44,681 --> 01:09:46,842
Then, more and more
information began to pile up
1341
01:09:46,933 --> 01:09:48,798
and she put it
into her second book,
1342
01:09:48,893 --> 01:09:50,804
and some of the ideas
were completely different.
1343
01:09:50,895 --> 01:09:52,806
And even though most
scientists will tell you,
1344
01:09:52,897 --> 01:09:55,559
"oh yeah, I'll change my mind
any day with new information,”
1345
01:09:55,650 --> 01:09:57,766
secretly, they won't. She did.
1346
01:09:57,860 --> 01:10:00,772
She publicly said, "you know,
if the new information says
1347
01:10:00,863 --> 01:10:02,649
"that the old had a
misinterpretation,
1348
01:10:02,740 --> 01:10:03,900
"then the new is good.”
1349
01:10:03,991 --> 01:10:05,902
Andy: She had the
humility to rewrite it,
1350
01:10:05,993 --> 01:10:08,200
stand up and say that
she had made mistakes
1351
01:10:08,287 --> 01:10:09,948
and assumptions,
but this was early days.
1352
01:10:10,039 --> 01:10:12,655
There's an awful lot of things
that we found out subsequently.
1353
01:10:12,750 --> 01:10:15,412
But not everyone is so humble
to stand up and admit
1354
01:10:15,503 --> 01:10:17,414
to the failures
or admit to the mistakes.
1355
01:10:17,505 --> 01:10:20,212
And she's rewritten the book
and the book's tripled in size
1356
01:10:20,299 --> 01:10:22,415
and it's far more
comprehensive now than it was.
1357
01:10:22,510 --> 01:10:25,297
Fred: One of the key examples
was, in the earlier work,
1358
01:10:25,388 --> 01:10:27,408
they thought giraffe were just
randomly wondering around,
1359
01:10:27,432 --> 01:10:29,297
loose associations,
flexible herds,
1360
01:10:29,392 --> 01:10:32,259
mothers and their calves don't
have strong relationships.
1361
01:10:32,353 --> 01:10:35,140
Then, one of my first studies
was actually they have friends.
1362
01:10:35,231 --> 01:10:37,517
They do hang around
not randomly,
1363
01:10:37,608 --> 01:10:40,065
and mothers and adult
daughters can stay together,
1364
01:10:40,153 --> 01:10:42,769
and that was a key finding
duplicated at a few sites.
1365
01:10:42,864 --> 01:10:45,776
So, the second book really
emphasizes those social networks
1366
01:10:45,867 --> 01:10:47,277
and the friendships and, yep,
1367
01:10:47,368 --> 01:10:49,638
giraffe are actually a lot more
complicated than we think.
1368
01:10:49,662 --> 01:10:52,119
Anne: This is very interesting.
This is how science works.
1369
01:10:52,206 --> 01:10:54,913
You do your best and then you
find out something changes
1370
01:10:55,001 --> 01:10:56,457
and then you change your mind
1371
01:10:56,544 --> 01:10:59,001
and this is what's
so wonderful about it.
1372
01:11:15,480 --> 01:11:18,392
Mr. Matthew: "January, 1985.
1373
01:11:18,483 --> 01:11:22,226
"Dear Anne, in a few months,
28 years will have passed
1374
01:11:22,320 --> 01:11:25,608
"since you set foot
on the farm, Fleur de lys."
1375
01:11:27,617 --> 01:11:31,075
"All that hot, dry day,
I had been in nelspruit..."
1376
01:11:31,162 --> 01:11:33,369
"And was returning
to the farm late at night.
1377
01:11:33,456 --> 01:11:35,822
"As I had come over
the hill at bushbuck Ridge,
1378
01:11:35,917 --> 01:11:38,408
"ll could see there was
a big field fire raging
1379
01:11:38,503 --> 01:11:41,666
"in the direction of Fleur de
lys, and within a mile or so,
1380
01:11:41,756 --> 01:11:43,712
"I found a score of
our farm labourers
1381
01:11:43,800 --> 01:11:45,756
"busily engaged in
fighting the fire.
1382
01:11:45,843 --> 01:11:48,129
"Just at that moment, farney,
our young bookkeeper,
1383
01:11:48,221 --> 01:11:51,509
"drove up in his small
and very much used car,
1384
01:11:51,599 --> 01:11:53,931
"stuck his head out of
the window and said,
1385
01:11:54,018 --> 01:11:56,680
"" Mr. Matt, I have
your Canadian student with me, '
1386
01:11:56,771 --> 01:11:58,932
"as though that
explained everything.
1387
01:11:59,023 --> 01:12:01,230
"And so, began
our long friendship
1388
01:12:01,317 --> 01:12:03,524
and the sharing of many
hours of giraffe watching
1389
01:12:03,611 --> 01:12:06,148
"on Fleur de lys.
Your oom, Alex."
1390
01:12:06,239 --> 01:12:09,151
Anne: I knew him until he
died at the age of 96,
1391
01:12:09,242 --> 01:12:10,903
so instead of calling him
"Mr. Matthew,”
1392
01:12:10,993 --> 01:12:14,406
later on, I would call him
"oom Alex". "Oom" is uncle.
1393
01:12:14,497 --> 01:12:17,159
At the end, he said,
"you're my fourth daughter”.
1394
01:12:17,208 --> 01:12:20,951
He was one of
the best people I ever met.
1395
01:12:21,045 --> 01:12:22,455
See the buildings? In the trees?
1396
01:12:22,547 --> 01:12:24,024
Straight ahead,
slightly to the right.
1397
01:12:24,048 --> 01:12:25,254
Anne: Oh. Mary: Oh, okay.
1398
01:12:25,341 --> 01:12:26,751
Anne: And look at these trees.
1399
01:12:26,843 --> 01:12:28,803
This is completely different.
There were no trees.
1400
01:12:28,845 --> 01:12:30,801
Ernest: You'll probably
recognize it as we get...
1401
01:12:30,888 --> 01:12:33,095
Yeah, because I usually
went right to the giraffe
1402
01:12:33,182 --> 01:12:34,262
and didn't pause.
1403
01:12:36,936 --> 01:12:39,302
Mary: So, look over there,
ma. Huh? Can you see?
1404
01:12:39,397 --> 01:12:40,933
Yeah, the office reception.
1405
01:12:41,023 --> 01:12:43,480
The roof's not thatched anymore,
but it's the same building.
1406
01:12:43,568 --> 01:12:45,479
Mary: Yep. You can
see the five pillars.
1407
01:12:45,570 --> 01:12:46,980
Anne: Oh, it's exactly the same!
1408
01:12:47,071 --> 01:12:48,732
Ernest: You stopped
on this road here.
1409
01:12:48,823 --> 01:12:50,688
Camelo was parked
right where we are now.
1410
01:12:50,783 --> 01:12:52,444
Let's get out and have a look.
1411
01:12:52,535 --> 01:12:54,116
Mary: Yeah. Oh, absolutely.
1412
01:13:00,251 --> 01:13:01,991
Wow.
1413
01:13:02,086 --> 01:13:04,452
John: Let's go around this
way and have a look.
1414
01:13:04,547 --> 01:13:06,833
Oh.
1415
01:13:06,924 --> 01:13:08,630
Nice to be back here?
1416
01:13:08,718 --> 01:13:10,674
Oh...
1417
01:13:13,306 --> 01:13:16,673
Alex, his office would have
been on the right-hand side.
1418
01:13:16,767 --> 01:13:18,887
Anne: This would be Mr.
Matthew's. Yeah, that's right.
1419
01:13:18,978 --> 01:13:20,764
That's right, and I remember...
1420
01:13:20,855 --> 01:13:23,141
Incredible.
1421
01:13:25,860 --> 01:13:29,398
Oh.
It brings back so many memories.
1422
01:13:31,198 --> 01:13:32,938
It's pretty amazing, eh?
1423
01:13:36,829 --> 01:13:38,990
Oh, dear.
1424
01:13:39,081 --> 01:13:41,447
So, the front door...
1425
01:13:41,500 --> 01:13:44,207
This is the bedroom, we thought
might have been your bedroom.
1426
01:13:44,295 --> 01:13:46,206
And there's a tree,
you said you had...
1427
01:13:46,297 --> 01:13:49,039
And that's the big tree that
might have had the mamba?
1428
01:13:49,133 --> 01:13:50,293
This is it.
1429
01:13:50,384 --> 01:13:51,749
This is my room, then.
1430
01:13:51,844 --> 01:13:55,007
John: It took her a while to
work it all out, you know,
1431
01:13:55,097 --> 01:13:57,713
which was her room, where
she got up in the morning
1432
01:13:57,808 --> 01:14:01,050
to retrieve the cup of tea that
Mr. Matthew had left for her.
1433
01:14:01,145 --> 01:14:02,555
In all of this changed
landscape,
1434
01:14:02,647 --> 01:14:04,854
so much is different,
but every now and then,
1435
01:14:04,941 --> 01:14:06,852
we've stumbled across
little pools of the past,
1436
01:14:06,943 --> 01:14:09,480
little scenes,
1437
01:14:09,570 --> 01:14:12,186
which are immediately
recognizable from long ago.
1438
01:14:27,380 --> 01:14:29,837
When we saw our first
giraffe at Fleur de lys
1439
01:14:29,882 --> 01:14:32,294
in the place
where it all began for her,
1440
01:14:32,343 --> 01:14:35,335
they were almost invisible
because they blended in so well
1441
01:14:35,429 --> 01:14:37,636
into the landscape, and Anne
spotted them very quickly.
1442
01:14:37,723 --> 01:14:39,429
Anne: See there? See there?
1443
01:14:39,517 --> 01:14:40,552
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
1444
01:14:40,643 --> 01:14:41,849
You can see them...
1445
01:14:41,936 --> 01:14:44,097
Look at their eyes.
Mary: Yeah, I see them.
1446
01:14:44,188 --> 01:14:46,019
Anne:
Can you see his eyelashes, John?
1447
01:14:46,107 --> 01:14:47,313
John: Yeah.
1448
01:14:47,358 --> 01:14:49,314
Those giraffes were almost
certainly
1449
01:14:49,402 --> 01:14:51,609
direct descendants of the
animals that she had studied.
1450
01:14:51,696 --> 01:14:52,560
Anne: Aren't they amazing?
1451
01:14:52,655 --> 01:14:53,861
John: Hey, look at this,
1452
01:14:53,948 --> 01:14:55,654
bull's come out
from behind the tree.
1453
01:14:55,700 --> 01:14:57,406
Anne: Oh, look at that one! Oh.
1454
01:14:57,493 --> 01:14:58,699
John: Wow, look at that.
1455
01:14:58,786 --> 01:15:01,243
Anne: He's huge.
1456
01:15:04,417 --> 01:15:08,751
Mr. Matthew: "Sept 8, 1990.
1457
01:15:08,838 --> 01:15:11,295
"Dear Anne, Fleur de lys,
1458
01:15:11,382 --> 01:15:13,623
"on which you studied your
favourite animal,
1459
01:15:13,718 --> 01:15:18,257
"has been sub-divided
and sold off as 'game farms".
1460
01:15:18,347 --> 01:15:22,556
"Giraffe are being sold
at about 2500 rand.
1461
01:15:22,643 --> 01:15:26,761
"How lucky you were to see
the lowveld when you did.
1462
01:15:26,856 --> 01:15:29,689
"Your oom Alex."
1463
01:15:29,775 --> 01:15:32,482
We know that there are so many
fewer giraffe now around
1464
01:15:32,570 --> 01:15:34,026
than there were in my day.
1465
01:15:34,071 --> 01:15:35,631
Do you think they'll
disappear entirely?
1466
01:15:35,656 --> 01:15:37,396
Or is there hope for them?
1467
01:15:37,491 --> 01:15:41,734
To be very honest,
without human interference,
1468
01:15:41,829 --> 01:15:44,320
I don't think
they're going to make it.
1469
01:15:48,919 --> 01:15:51,080
It doesn't matter
the species or the mammal,
1470
01:15:51,172 --> 01:15:54,585
there's no example
that we as humans can claim
1471
01:15:54,675 --> 01:15:56,631
where we interfered enough
1472
01:15:56,719 --> 01:15:58,175
that it was a success.
1473
01:15:58,262 --> 01:15:59,718
Wow.
1474
01:16:10,191 --> 01:16:12,398
Francois: We need to look
at how to preserve
1475
01:16:12,443 --> 01:16:15,901
the last few little habitats
that are still left
1476
01:16:15,988 --> 01:16:19,355
and then giraffe would be saved.
1477
01:16:19,450 --> 01:16:24,240
So, we need more people like you
to carry on with what you did,
1478
01:16:24,330 --> 01:16:27,163
we need more people
to become involved.
1479
01:16:29,085 --> 01:16:31,827
If we are not going
to save giraffe,
1480
01:16:31,921 --> 01:16:35,038
me and you and people
that listen to this,
1481
01:16:35,132 --> 01:16:37,544
if we don't save giraffe,
who is going to do it?
1482
01:16:37,635 --> 01:16:39,171
Anne: Yeah.
1483
01:17:13,045 --> 01:17:15,752
Young Anne: "May 31, 1957.
1484
01:17:15,840 --> 01:17:20,209
"Dear mommy, I have sold camelo
for the grand sum of £137
1485
01:17:20,302 --> 01:17:23,214
"to a student who wants
a rough-tough car
1486
01:17:23,305 --> 01:17:25,466
"to take him up to Nairobi.
1487
01:17:25,558 --> 01:17:28,095
"I showed him
the immortal giraffe film,
1488
01:17:28,185 --> 01:17:30,801
"which begins with camelo
arriving at the lowveld.
1489
01:17:30,855 --> 01:17:34,347
"This was to add a
human or car interest
1490
01:17:34,441 --> 01:17:37,683
"in case the rest of the film
was too exclusively giraffe,
1491
01:17:37,778 --> 01:17:40,064
"if that is possible.
1492
01:17:40,156 --> 01:17:42,772
"Very much love,
Anne of the bushveld.
1493
01:18:02,845 --> 01:18:04,927
Mary: "May 27th, 1957."
1494
01:18:05,014 --> 01:18:07,471
Anne: So, that's just
after I left I guess.
1495
01:18:07,558 --> 01:18:11,927
Yes, yes, just after you
left, and it's from oom Alex.
1496
01:18:12,021 --> 01:18:14,103
So he says, "dear Anne..."
1497
01:18:14,190 --> 01:18:16,306
Mr. Matthews:
"All I wish to tell you now
1498
01:18:16,400 --> 01:18:19,563
"is how much I appreciate how
much you have done for me
1499
01:18:19,653 --> 01:18:22,440
"and for everyone
at Fleur de lys.
1500
01:18:22,531 --> 01:18:25,944
"Li hardly need say that so long
as I am at Fleur de lys,
1501
01:18:26,035 --> 01:18:28,947
"Fleur de lys will always be
happy and proud
1502
01:18:29,038 --> 01:18:31,120
"to be of service to you
1503
01:18:31,207 --> 01:18:35,075
"and honoured if you accept
its hospitality.”
1504
01:18:35,127 --> 01:18:36,958
"Our doors will always be open,
1505
01:18:37,046 --> 01:18:40,288
"and I hope the time will come
again when you will be there
1506
01:18:40,382 --> 01:18:43,874
"and come and go
as freely as you choose.”
1507
01:18:43,969 --> 01:18:45,925
And here you are,
in Fleur de lys.
1508
01:18:45,971 --> 01:18:47,427
Yes.
1509
01:18:47,514 --> 01:18:50,347
He would be amazed to think of
you here tonight, wouldn't he?
1510
01:18:50,434 --> 01:18:52,891
I think he would.
1511
01:20:20,316 --> 01:20:22,352
Anne: We're going to the
march tomorrow,
1512
01:20:22,443 --> 01:20:24,354
so we don't how
actually that will go.
1513
01:20:24,403 --> 01:20:28,612
If we're not shot, I think we
might have a nice bon-ami going.
1514
01:20:30,367 --> 01:20:34,155
Crowd: Donald Trump has got
to go, hey-hey, ho-ho!
1515
01:20:34,246 --> 01:20:38,080
Donald Trump has got to go,
hey-hey, ho-ho!
1516
01:20:38,167 --> 01:20:39,577
Donald Trump has got to go...
1517
01:20:39,668 --> 01:20:42,375
Anne: To see a million
women and a lot of men
1518
01:20:42,463 --> 01:20:44,670
all walking together
for the rights of people,
1519
01:20:44,757 --> 01:20:46,372
it was just fantastic.
1520
01:20:46,467 --> 01:20:49,755
All the women were
shouting what they felt.
1521
01:20:51,513 --> 01:20:54,425
Women can do anything and we're
not going back to the '50s.
1522
01:20:54,516 --> 01:20:57,633
A lot of people wouldn't even
know what the '50s were like,
1523
01:20:57,728 --> 01:20:59,514
where everything
was completely masculine.
1524
01:20:59,605 --> 01:21:01,937
Now, a lot of
women are professors.
1525
01:21:02,024 --> 01:21:03,855
We're making huge progress.
1526
01:21:05,110 --> 01:21:08,819
Crowd: Yes, we can! Yes, we can!
1527
01:21:08,906 --> 01:21:10,316
Anne:
We're fighting now and then,
1528
01:21:10,407 --> 01:21:12,647
I mean, you just have to take it
'cause you were just one
1529
01:21:12,701 --> 01:21:14,262
and you didn't have any
friends who felt the same way,
1530
01:21:14,286 --> 01:21:15,286
or not many.
1531
01:21:15,329 --> 01:21:19,823
And then, when I went on the
march, I realized there are...
1532
01:21:19,917 --> 01:21:24,126
So many strong, strong people
who are not going to take it.
1533
01:21:24,213 --> 01:21:26,374
So, I'm really
much more hopeful.
1534
01:21:26,465 --> 01:21:30,083
There is a future, but it's
going to be a hard fight.
118520
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