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1
00:00:06,798 --> 00:00:09,759
And you're... Are... You're not getting
the coffee table, I'm guessing.
2
00:00:10,635 --> 00:00:11,635
Okay.
3
00:00:12,095 --> 00:00:14,347
I'm not wearing these glasses, by the way.
4
00:00:14,431 --> 00:00:18,768
I don't wanna come off as some douche
with sunglasses on inside.
5
00:00:18,852 --> 00:00:20,395
I have other glasses.
6
00:00:20,478 --> 00:00:21,980
I know you'll like these.
7
00:00:22,731 --> 00:00:24,733
[whimsical rhythmic music plays]
8
00:00:26,109 --> 00:00:27,861
You know, you... you guys decide.
9
00:00:28,445 --> 00:00:31,865
I'm sure I'll look very good,
and I'm not gonna regret any of this.
10
00:00:32,449 --> 00:00:35,410
They go with the shirt,
they have pink lenses.
11
00:00:37,328 --> 00:00:38,705
Granny glasses, a little bit.
12
00:00:38,788 --> 00:00:42,459
I think my... They make my face
look thinner because they're so big.
13
00:00:42,542 --> 00:00:44,002
We're going for the thin.
14
00:00:44,085 --> 00:00:45,503
[man] Let's do it then, come on.
15
00:00:46,004 --> 00:00:48,131
My name is Evan Back.
16
00:00:48,214 --> 00:00:53,845
And I worked for... for Ashley Madison
for just under ten years.
17
00:00:53,928 --> 00:00:58,099
It was a dating site for married people
who wanted to have an affair.
18
00:00:58,183 --> 00:01:01,603
♪ I'm looking for someone
Other than my wife ♪
19
00:01:01,686 --> 00:01:04,898
[Evan] Part of what I really love
about Ashley Madison,
20
00:01:04,981 --> 00:01:07,317
it's so outrageous to some people.
21
00:01:08,234 --> 00:01:11,154
♪ I'm looking for someone
Other than my wife ♪
22
00:01:11,237 --> 00:01:12,864
When I would go to trade shows,
23
00:01:12,947 --> 00:01:15,742
and they would say, ya know,
"Who's your biggest competitor?"
24
00:01:15,825 --> 00:01:18,787
And I'd say, "The Bible." [laughs]
25
00:01:18,870 --> 00:01:21,247
[cheerful music plays]
26
00:01:21,331 --> 00:01:23,249
[man 1] We all dream
of the perfect marriage.
27
00:01:23,750 --> 00:01:25,960
Sometimes life
just doesn't work out that way.
28
00:01:26,669 --> 00:01:29,672
For most people,
married life is really hard.
29
00:01:30,715 --> 00:01:34,302
If you found yourself stuck
in an unhappy marriage,
30
00:01:34,803 --> 00:01:36,221
well, what would you do?
31
00:01:36,846 --> 00:01:39,224
[man 2] The perfect affair
is not just meeting someone,
32
00:01:39,307 --> 00:01:41,643
it's meeting someone
and not getting discovered.
33
00:01:42,936 --> 00:01:44,896
[woman 1] When I first heard
about Ashley Madison,
34
00:01:44,979 --> 00:01:46,981
I thought it was a great fucking idea.
35
00:01:47,565 --> 00:01:52,237
{\an8}[man 3] What the company was selling
was secrecy and discretion.
36
00:01:52,737 --> 00:01:56,199
{\an8}[woman 2] Just the deepest,
most personal stuff you can imagine,
37
00:01:56,282 --> 00:01:59,702
{\an8}people were providing to this website
and trusting it to keep safe.
38
00:02:00,286 --> 00:02:05,333
{\an8}[Evan] By 2015, we had 35
to 40 million members at Ashley Madison.
39
00:02:06,209 --> 00:02:07,293
It was a cash cow.
40
00:02:08,044 --> 00:02:09,879
And then, all of a sudden,
41
00:02:09,963 --> 00:02:11,714
the shit really hit the fan.
42
00:02:11,798 --> 00:02:13,133
{\an8}[dramatic music plays]
43
00:02:13,216 --> 00:02:16,886
{\an8}Ashley Madison has become the target
of a massive cyberattack.
44
00:02:16,970 --> 00:02:20,723
{\an8}Tens of millions of unfaithful customers
could be exposed.
45
00:02:20,807 --> 00:02:25,520
This hack is one of the largest
data breaches in the world.
46
00:02:26,020 --> 00:02:27,814
[Evan] We betrayed their trust.
47
00:02:27,897 --> 00:02:30,567
Now millions of marriages could blow up.
48
00:02:31,901 --> 00:02:34,362
[man 4] These were people's
innermost secrets
49
00:02:34,445 --> 00:02:37,490
that they never intended to be public.
50
00:02:39,701 --> 00:02:42,245
[man 5] I had no idea
when I signed up for Ashley Madison
51
00:02:42,328 --> 00:02:45,540
{\an8}that it would turn
into the biggest mistake of my life.
52
00:02:48,126 --> 00:02:50,086
[woman 3] My world was, like, crumbling.
53
00:02:50,170 --> 00:02:54,174
Every single aspect of my life
up until this point felt like a lie.
54
00:02:56,009 --> 00:02:58,261
[woman 4] It was like Pandora's box
has been opened.
55
00:02:59,012 --> 00:03:00,555
What's gonna happen next?
56
00:03:02,557 --> 00:03:04,559
[theme music plays]
57
00:03:11,441 --> 00:03:13,443
[gentle music plays]
58
00:03:17,113 --> 00:03:20,408
[man] I grew up here in Texas,
out by Lake Tawakoni.
59
00:03:24,495 --> 00:03:28,541
At 13 years old,
my dad upped and left the family.
60
00:03:31,044 --> 00:03:34,047
And so nobody
ever really taught me about love.
61
00:03:35,256 --> 00:03:39,219
But one of the movies that came out
when I was younger was Big Fish.
62
00:03:39,969 --> 00:03:42,889
Edward Bloom,
played amazingly by Ewan McGregor.
63
00:03:42,972 --> 00:03:44,641
And one of the best scenes in that movie
64
00:03:44,724 --> 00:03:47,685
is, like, the big scene where he confesses
his dying love to this girl.
65
00:03:47,769 --> 00:03:50,230
He turns around
and looks up to the window, and he says...
66
00:03:50,313 --> 00:03:52,065
Sandra Templeton...
67
00:03:52,148 --> 00:03:54,776
"...I love you, and I will marry you!"
68
00:03:55,276 --> 00:03:58,529
And that was one
of the most influential movies for me.
69
00:03:58,613 --> 00:04:02,116
The falling-in-love aspect,
I was just so drawn to.
70
00:04:04,786 --> 00:04:06,162
So when I saw Nia...
71
00:04:08,289 --> 00:04:10,500
it was such an amazing moment for me.
72
00:04:10,583 --> 00:04:14,128
It was like all these dreams that I had
coming to reality.
73
00:04:14,212 --> 00:04:17,632
I was, like, living
what I've always, like, dreamed of.
74
00:04:20,343 --> 00:04:22,263
[woman] I'm getting ready
to walk down the aisle,
75
00:04:22,345 --> 00:04:26,849
and I looked forward and I see Sam,
and he started really, really bawling.
76
00:04:26,933 --> 00:04:31,187
It was so amazing
for me to see that as... as his wife.
77
00:04:31,271 --> 00:04:33,151
Like, "Oh, my gosh."
Like, "He really loves me."
78
00:04:33,189 --> 00:04:34,941
You know? Like, it was like a dream.
79
00:04:38,152 --> 00:04:41,155
Just that like,
"Look at what we're promising each other,"
80
00:04:41,239 --> 00:04:46,869
and if we really, really follow through
this is going to be forever, like, really.
81
00:04:47,704 --> 00:04:52,542
There is no part of me that thought, like,
things would turn out the way they did.
82
00:04:52,625 --> 00:04:54,627
[intriguing music plays]
83
00:04:59,007 --> 00:05:00,675
My name is Marc Morgenstern,
84
00:05:01,175 --> 00:05:05,638
{\an8}and originally I was the creative director
at Ashley Madison.
85
00:05:05,722 --> 00:05:08,558
{\an8}Uh, it was founded,
actually, by my brother.
86
00:05:08,641 --> 00:05:11,060
It was like early 2000s.
87
00:05:11,144 --> 00:05:13,688
And I remember
my brother was really excited
88
00:05:14,397 --> 00:05:17,692
because of some stat
about dating websites.
89
00:05:18,192 --> 00:05:22,947
Thirty percent of the people on those
non-cheating websites were married.
90
00:05:23,448 --> 00:05:27,744
And he went,
"Wow, that's just an insane figure."
91
00:05:28,619 --> 00:05:29,829
{\an8}That's how it started.
92
00:05:29,912 --> 00:05:31,622
{\an8}[man] We don't think it's sleazy at all.
93
00:05:31,706 --> 00:05:35,460
{\an8}I mean, Ashley Madison
is n... not about porn.
94
00:05:35,543 --> 00:05:40,506
{\an8}Ashley Madison is not an adult site.
Ashley Madison is mature-themed.
95
00:05:40,590 --> 00:05:43,384
Those were the two
most popular girl names,
96
00:05:43,468 --> 00:05:44,468
Ashley and Madison.
97
00:05:44,510 --> 00:05:46,888
It seemed a little upper-class.
98
00:05:46,971 --> 00:05:49,474
So you felt the site
had a... a certain pedigree.
99
00:05:50,350 --> 00:05:53,186
{\an8}[woman] Ashley Madison
was ahead of its time.
100
00:05:53,269 --> 00:05:55,646
{\an8}They were not just
an online-dating pioneer,
101
00:05:55,730 --> 00:05:57,315
{\an8}but an Internet pioneer.
102
00:05:57,398 --> 00:05:59,442
{\an8}The company first launched
103
00:05:59,525 --> 00:06:02,945
{\an8}right in the dot-com boom
of the early 2000s.
104
00:06:03,446 --> 00:06:06,532
The idea of a dating website
was still at that time, you know,
105
00:06:06,616 --> 00:06:08,296
a little out there,
a little sort of weird.
106
00:06:08,326 --> 00:06:10,745
Like, "Oh you're gonna sign up
for a dating website."
107
00:06:10,828 --> 00:06:13,915
Then, especially, you add
it's a dating website for adultery,
108
00:06:13,998 --> 00:06:16,876
it's, you know, it's certainly a bit
of an "out there" idea.
109
00:06:19,504 --> 00:06:22,548
[Marc] When it first started,
we were tryin' to figure out taglines.
110
00:06:22,632 --> 00:06:25,885
The one they chose was
"When monogamy becomes monotony."
111
00:06:25,968 --> 00:06:27,136
It was the first one.
112
00:06:27,220 --> 00:06:28,596
[mouse clicking]
113
00:06:28,679 --> 00:06:32,683
I don't think we properly focus-grouped it
just because we thought it was clever.
114
00:06:32,767 --> 00:06:35,937
{\an8}And, uh, a lot of people thought
it was wood.
115
00:06:36,813 --> 00:06:37,855
{\an8}It was "mahogany."
116
00:06:37,939 --> 00:06:40,858
{\an8}Some want to talk, some want to do more.
117
00:06:40,942 --> 00:06:43,986
{\an8}[Marc] They tried an infomercial,
which I... I wasn't really a part of.
118
00:06:44,070 --> 00:06:47,532
They tried other things,
and, uh, they kinda failed.
119
00:06:47,615 --> 00:06:49,742
{\an8}Let's face it, we're sexual beings
120
00:06:49,826 --> 00:06:53,538
{\an8}and some of us will always find a way
to have multiple partners.
121
00:06:53,621 --> 00:06:56,541
It just didn't work. They weren't bringin'
the... the... the people in.
122
00:06:56,624 --> 00:06:58,626
[dramatic music plays]
123
00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:03,548
And it wasn't until Noel showed up
124
00:07:04,382 --> 00:07:06,467
that things really changed.
125
00:07:06,968 --> 00:07:08,511
He's now the new CEO.
126
00:07:08,594 --> 00:07:10,346
Yeah, it's a dating site
with a huge caveat.
127
00:07:10,430 --> 00:07:12,350
It's for people
who are already in relationships,
128
00:07:12,432 --> 00:07:15,685
but looking to pursue that proverbial
something on the side.
129
00:07:15,768 --> 00:07:18,896
[Claire] Noel Biderman started
his career as a sports lawyer.
130
00:07:18,980 --> 00:07:20,690
And he would say in media interviews
131
00:07:20,773 --> 00:07:24,277
that's when he realized there was a market
for a site like Ashley Madison
132
00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,071
because he had so many clients
who were having affairs.
133
00:07:27,613 --> 00:07:28,948
[Marc] Noel, he was fearless.
134
00:07:29,031 --> 00:07:31,159
He was like,
"Let's try to push the envelope."
135
00:07:31,242 --> 00:07:35,788
"Let's try to make this
really resonate with people."
136
00:07:35,872 --> 00:07:39,709
We went, "No, let's just...
Let's just go right for the jugular."
137
00:07:40,835 --> 00:07:42,128
You know, life is short.
138
00:07:42,211 --> 00:07:46,132
If you're unsatisfied with your life,
have an affair.
139
00:07:52,221 --> 00:07:55,766
{\an8}[Evan] Noel and I have been friends, uh,
140
00:07:55,850 --> 00:07:59,353
{\an8}for about 34 years.
141
00:07:59,979 --> 00:08:05,485
{\an8}We met at, uh, summer camp,
and we became close and fast friends,
142
00:08:05,568 --> 00:08:08,112
{\an8}and I like to tell people,
143
00:08:08,196 --> 00:08:10,281
{\an8}you know, we put the "fun"
in dysfunctional.
144
00:08:11,115 --> 00:08:14,911
As a kid, you know,
he was really, really fun to be around.
145
00:08:14,994 --> 00:08:17,079
Fantastic sense of humor.
146
00:08:17,163 --> 00:08:19,832
Charming, funny, smart.
147
00:08:20,416 --> 00:08:23,503
Didn't take, uh, any shit from anybody,
148
00:08:23,586 --> 00:08:27,298
including, you know,
elders or people of authority.
149
00:08:27,381 --> 00:08:30,134
He went to UCLA and... and became a lawyer.
150
00:08:30,218 --> 00:08:33,346
Noel's all about conflict.
Like, he's ready to go all the time.
151
00:08:33,429 --> 00:08:35,431
[dreamy harp music plays]
152
00:08:38,434 --> 00:08:41,604
It's 2007, I guess.
153
00:08:44,023 --> 00:08:46,150
There was a message from Noel.
154
00:08:46,234 --> 00:08:48,569
He just said,
"Have you heard of Ashley Madison?"
155
00:08:48,653 --> 00:08:49,487
And I said no.
156
00:08:49,570 --> 00:08:53,741
He said, "You're the best sales guy I know
and the best business-development guy,
157
00:08:53,824 --> 00:08:57,995
and there's an opportunity in traffic
and affiliates and..."
158
00:08:58,496 --> 00:09:01,958
All kinds of things that are like
a completely foreign language to me.
159
00:09:02,041 --> 00:09:07,755
I didn't know about any of it
because I had not used a computer
160
00:09:07,838 --> 00:09:09,048
up until that point.
161
00:09:11,050 --> 00:09:12,969
As we're getting off the phone,
162
00:09:13,052 --> 00:09:15,221
he said, "You know your way
around a computer?"
163
00:09:15,304 --> 00:09:18,057
I'm like,
"Heh. I know my way around a computer."
164
00:09:18,641 --> 00:09:22,895
They offered me $100,000 plus 10%,
I was doing backwards somersaults,
165
00:09:22,979 --> 00:09:26,148
and I was like, "Great,
what a... what a great opportunity."
166
00:09:26,232 --> 00:09:27,275
"I'll learn."
167
00:09:27,358 --> 00:09:29,360
[foreboding piano music plays]
168
00:09:38,661 --> 00:09:40,538
My first day,
169
00:09:41,914 --> 00:09:47,670
Noel sat me down in his office
and explained to me the brand.
170
00:09:47,753 --> 00:09:49,672
He understood the audience.
171
00:09:50,631 --> 00:09:52,758
You're coming to Ashley Madison
172
00:09:52,842 --> 00:09:56,679
because you don't wanna blow up
your marriage or your relationship.
173
00:09:56,762 --> 00:09:58,931
{\an8}The perfect affair
is not just meeting someone,
174
00:09:59,015 --> 00:10:00,850
{\an8}it's meeting and not getting discovered.
175
00:10:00,933 --> 00:10:03,853
{\an8}When you have an affair in the workplace,
our biggest competitor,
176
00:10:03,936 --> 00:10:05,062
{\an8}it's bound to be uncovered.
177
00:10:05,146 --> 00:10:09,483
The whole business is built
on secrecy and discretion.
178
00:10:09,567 --> 00:10:11,652
A married guy hooks up
with a married woman,
179
00:10:12,236 --> 00:10:16,282
neither one of them
is going to squeal on the other one
180
00:10:16,365 --> 00:10:18,451
because they both have the same to lose.
181
00:10:19,035 --> 00:10:21,621
I admire his brilliance.
182
00:10:21,704 --> 00:10:24,123
With Noel, the vision became clear,
183
00:10:24,206 --> 00:10:30,755
was to be the largest and only
married-dating website in the world.
184
00:10:31,422 --> 00:10:33,090
So he said to me,
185
00:10:33,174 --> 00:10:36,886
"You need to attract men who are willing
to upload their credit card
186
00:10:36,969 --> 00:10:38,804
and spend money to meet women."
187
00:10:38,888 --> 00:10:40,890
[intriguing music plays]
188
00:10:46,228 --> 00:10:49,815
[man] When I first joined,
there were not very many dating sites.
189
00:10:49,899 --> 00:10:51,776
Ashley Madison was the best one for me.
190
00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:54,070
I didn't want to get divorced,
191
00:10:54,153 --> 00:10:56,989
and I... I definitely wasn't lookin'
for someone to replace my wife.
192
00:10:58,074 --> 00:10:59,200
[speaks typing text]
193
00:11:03,537 --> 00:11:04,664
I'm married.
194
00:11:05,247 --> 00:11:06,582
I'm not a sugar daddy.
195
00:11:07,958 --> 00:11:10,503
One of the reasons Ashley Madison's
worked so well for me,
196
00:11:10,586 --> 00:11:13,255
it allowed me to be specific
in what I was looking for.
197
00:11:13,339 --> 00:11:15,341
There are d... different things
that you can choose
198
00:11:15,424 --> 00:11:18,344
about, like, what type
of kinky activities you like,
199
00:11:18,427 --> 00:11:20,179
dirty talk or stuff like that.
200
00:11:20,262 --> 00:11:23,891
I can narrow it down by height,
by weight, the color of their skin.
201
00:11:23,974 --> 00:11:25,726
You know, m... my type, uh,
202
00:11:25,810 --> 00:11:28,312
women that usually
are younger than myself.
203
00:11:30,314 --> 00:11:32,250
It's... it's very exciting
when you first sign up,
204
00:11:32,274 --> 00:11:36,028
and... and you look at all the profiles
and you... you e-mail a bunch of people.
205
00:11:36,112 --> 00:11:40,282
Yeah, you're excited, you're enthusiastic,
you can't wait to see what this brings.
206
00:11:43,119 --> 00:11:46,580
[Evan] Most dating sites
are a monthly subscription.
207
00:11:47,081 --> 00:11:49,291
Ashley is not a monthly subscription.
208
00:11:49,375 --> 00:11:52,336
In order to send messages,
you had to buy credits.
209
00:11:53,295 --> 00:11:56,507
And when your credits ran out,
you had to buy more credits.
210
00:11:56,590 --> 00:11:59,552
I think the best way I can put it
is you have to pay to play.
211
00:12:01,053 --> 00:12:02,053
[Claire] Men sign up,
212
00:12:02,096 --> 00:12:05,725
they message, say, the first ten profiles
they see on the site.
213
00:12:06,517 --> 00:12:10,104
Very quickly, they've burned through
their package of, ya know, 50 credits.
214
00:12:10,187 --> 00:12:12,523
Um, ya know, it's rolling over
on their cre... credit card.
215
00:12:12,606 --> 00:12:16,110
You're very quickly racking up
a big, big credit-card bill,
216
00:12:16,193 --> 00:12:19,029
and the company
is making lots and lots of money.
217
00:12:19,113 --> 00:12:21,157
[messages whoosh]
218
00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:23,510
[Rob] There's a lot of women
and it's... and it's awesome.
219
00:12:23,534 --> 00:12:25,971
There... there's more...
You... you almost gotta buy more credits
220
00:12:25,995 --> 00:12:27,872
'cause you wanna e-mail so many people.
221
00:12:27,955 --> 00:12:30,016
I just hoped that I would match
with a couple of 'em.
222
00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:32,042
[messages continue whooshing]
223
00:12:35,504 --> 00:12:37,882
[Evan] We had big screens
around the office
224
00:12:37,965 --> 00:12:40,926
showing all the sign-ups, gross revenue.
225
00:12:41,010 --> 00:12:42,970
All of this data was coming in,
226
00:12:43,471 --> 00:12:48,058
and, uh, it was
really professional-looking. [chuckles]
227
00:12:48,142 --> 00:12:49,977
[pleasant synth music plays]
228
00:12:50,060 --> 00:12:51,353
[Marc] We started small,
229
00:12:51,437 --> 00:12:56,317
and we had to expand the business
through our advertising and our marketing.
230
00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:57,610
[Marc on video] Action.
231
00:12:59,653 --> 00:13:01,071
[actress] Oh, no, you didn't!
232
00:13:01,572 --> 00:13:04,033
[Marc] So I thought,
"Let's make a commercial..."
233
00:13:04,116 --> 00:13:04,950
Good, cut.
234
00:13:05,034 --> 00:13:06,285
"...people will talk about it."
235
00:13:06,368 --> 00:13:07,453
Oh, just... just...
236
00:13:07,536 --> 00:13:09,121
[joking around]
237
00:13:09,955 --> 00:13:12,833
But because no one
had done something like this before,
238
00:13:12,917 --> 00:13:14,668
it wasn't necessarily, uh...
239
00:13:14,752 --> 00:13:16,962
"All right, let's sit down
and make a marketing plan
240
00:13:17,046 --> 00:13:21,175
and... and... and figure this out,"
and how to... how to bring people in.
241
00:13:21,258 --> 00:13:22,718
A lot of it was trial and error.
242
00:13:23,552 --> 00:13:24,845
[dramatic music plays on iPad]
243
00:13:25,429 --> 00:13:27,681
We did the bedroom-frolic commercial.
244
00:13:28,641 --> 00:13:29,558
It's brightly lit,
245
00:13:29,642 --> 00:13:33,020
so it looks like they're meeting
in the middle of the day.
246
00:13:33,646 --> 00:13:34,855
It's clandestine.
247
00:13:34,939 --> 00:13:36,649
It's romantic and fantasy.
248
00:13:36,732 --> 00:13:39,276
The ad lines were,
"This couple is married."
249
00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:41,612
And you go, "Oh, hey, isn't that sweet?"
250
00:13:44,073 --> 00:13:46,367
"But not to each other." Oh!
251
00:13:47,117 --> 00:13:51,872
{\an8}That was the one that started the uptick
in registrations and people signing up,
252
00:13:51,956 --> 00:13:53,833
{\an8}because you read into it as,
253
00:13:54,625 --> 00:13:58,254
{\an8}wow, this... this is exciting,
this is fantastic.
254
00:13:58,337 --> 00:14:01,090
You know, I could possibly find this.
255
00:14:01,632 --> 00:14:04,051
You know, instead of my boring, everyday,
256
00:14:04,885 --> 00:14:06,887
you know, existence, I can have this.
257
00:14:06,971 --> 00:14:08,973
[serene music plays]
258
00:14:15,521 --> 00:14:18,816
[Sam] I was 24 and Nia was 20 years old
when we got married.
259
00:14:20,025 --> 00:14:22,903
She really was my everything.
260
00:14:24,363 --> 00:14:26,740
[Nia] I loved our early days
of our marriage.
261
00:14:27,658 --> 00:14:29,034
I got pregnant pretty quickly,
262
00:14:29,118 --> 00:14:31,871
and so that... Things started to change
and shift a little bit,
263
00:14:31,954 --> 00:14:34,123
but with that
comes also a lot of excitement.
264
00:14:34,206 --> 00:14:36,333
Oh, my gosh. Did she just wake up?
265
00:14:36,417 --> 00:14:37,251
[Sam] Yeah.
266
00:14:37,334 --> 00:14:38,334
[baby coos]
267
00:14:39,003 --> 00:14:40,337
[Nia] Still a lot of passion,
268
00:14:40,421 --> 00:14:44,925
and, I mean, really that season of life
was like all my dreams coming to fruition.
269
00:14:47,595 --> 00:14:51,098
[Sam] I loved being a dad.
I loved my children, crazy about 'em.
270
00:14:51,932 --> 00:14:56,353
It was a beautiful life,
but it was also just like this sudden, uh,
271
00:14:56,437 --> 00:14:59,148
inundation of responsibilities.
272
00:14:59,231 --> 00:15:01,442
So much responsibility
that I... I wasn't ready for.
273
00:15:01,525 --> 00:15:03,360
- [Nia] Aw!
- [Sam] Come to Daddy hugs.
274
00:15:03,444 --> 00:15:04,904
[Nia exclaiming in background]
275
00:15:04,987 --> 00:15:07,740
Oh my gosh. He's so cute. Oh my God... Ow!
276
00:15:07,823 --> 00:15:10,367
He hit my teeth. You okay? You okay?
277
00:15:10,451 --> 00:15:12,971
Paying bills, keeping up
with our finances, not getting in debt.
278
00:15:13,037 --> 00:15:14,717
Making sure our mortgage got paid on time,
279
00:15:14,747 --> 00:15:17,416
make sure the electric bill didn't go off
like when I was a kid.
280
00:15:20,794 --> 00:15:26,216
I had imagined my life being exciting,
and it wasn't exciting anymore.
281
00:15:27,217 --> 00:15:28,928
Life became monotonous.
282
00:15:31,221 --> 00:15:34,642
That picture of love that I saw in movies
283
00:15:34,725 --> 00:15:39,480
and that I so desired to be a part of
just started disappearing.
284
00:15:40,064 --> 00:15:44,485
And I longed for, like,
that kinda passionate romantic love.
285
00:15:45,069 --> 00:15:47,821
I didn't want to leave my family,
286
00:15:47,905 --> 00:15:50,991
but I wanted some exci...
something exciting in my life.
287
00:15:54,203 --> 00:15:56,664
- [baby] Dada!
- [Nia] Awww!
288
00:15:57,206 --> 00:15:58,582
Did Daddy go to work?
289
00:15:59,208 --> 00:16:00,376
Dada.
290
00:16:01,585 --> 00:16:05,339
[ambulance siren wailing]
291
00:16:14,431 --> 00:16:16,892
[Sam] I was at my night shift
as an ER nurse.
292
00:16:19,144 --> 00:16:22,147
Probably 3 or 4 a.m.,
when things were very slow in the ER,
293
00:16:22,231 --> 00:16:25,109
and most of us just sat there
and did our own thing.
294
00:16:25,192 --> 00:16:28,320
And what I often did
was read Yahoo! News online.
295
00:16:28,404 --> 00:16:29,947
That was a big thing during that time.
296
00:16:31,031 --> 00:16:34,868
And, um, I just remember seeing
an advertisement for Ashley Madison,
297
00:16:34,952 --> 00:16:36,578
"Life is short, have an affair."
298
00:16:37,079 --> 00:16:38,831
I was like, "That sounds intriguing."
299
00:16:42,126 --> 00:16:43,836
Life is short, they... they're right.
300
00:16:43,919 --> 00:16:45,045
They have that right,
301
00:16:45,129 --> 00:16:47,589
so maybe they have
"have an affair" right too.
302
00:16:48,924 --> 00:16:52,428
I wanted more of the good stuff
that life had to give.
303
00:16:53,220 --> 00:16:56,223
So I signed up because
it sounded like they had the answer.
304
00:16:56,306 --> 00:16:58,017
[chuckles]
305
00:16:58,100 --> 00:17:00,102
[troubling music plays]
306
00:17:02,438 --> 00:17:07,026
I signed up with all my real information,
which obviously was a stupid decision.
307
00:17:12,156 --> 00:17:14,533
I spelled everything correctly.
308
00:17:14,616 --> 00:17:15,492
My birthday.
309
00:17:15,576 --> 00:17:19,788
I... I put everything exactly how...
As if I was signing up for a credit card.
310
00:17:20,372 --> 00:17:23,292
The site made it easy for me
just to put it all out there.
311
00:17:23,917 --> 00:17:27,337
Used real pictures of myself,
put a few photos of my face on there.
312
00:17:27,921 --> 00:17:30,132
I think I may've put one
with my shirt off.
313
00:17:30,215 --> 00:17:32,217
That just kinda showed my upper body.
314
00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:39,641
[Claire] Think about how sensitive
the information is
315
00:17:39,725 --> 00:17:43,062
that you would be providing
to a website like Ashley Madison.
316
00:17:44,396 --> 00:17:46,899
Details about your sexual fantasies.
317
00:17:47,483 --> 00:17:51,153
Just the deepest,
most personal stuff you can imagine,
318
00:17:51,236 --> 00:17:54,281
people were providing to this website
and trusting it to keep safe.
319
00:17:54,364 --> 00:17:58,327
Think of the people's lives
that could potentially be ruined
320
00:17:58,410 --> 00:18:00,537
if that intimate information
got out there.
321
00:18:01,622 --> 00:18:03,665
At that time, cybersecurity was sort of
322
00:18:03,749 --> 00:18:07,044
just starting to enter
the public consciousness.
323
00:18:07,127 --> 00:18:11,340
But the risk of being hacked
wasn't something, I don't think,
324
00:18:11,423 --> 00:18:15,636
that the average person
was particularly concerned about.
325
00:18:18,722 --> 00:18:21,100
I didn't really hesitate
to give out my information.
326
00:18:21,183 --> 00:18:22,643
{\an8}Maybe I would on other sites,
327
00:18:22,726 --> 00:18:27,064
{\an8}but this one specifically,
they told you how protected you were.
328
00:18:27,648 --> 00:18:30,901
{\an8}I trusted they would lock it down hard.
329
00:18:32,111 --> 00:18:34,488
But when I signed up for Ashley Madison,
330
00:18:34,571 --> 00:18:36,824
I made one of the biggest mistakes
of my life.
331
00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:43,122
[anxious music plays]
332
00:18:45,666 --> 00:18:50,295
I think we had about
seven million members in 2010,
333
00:18:51,338 --> 00:18:54,591
but it wasn't growing
fast enough for Noel.
334
00:18:56,009 --> 00:18:59,263
The marketing team was mainly all men,
335
00:19:00,013 --> 00:19:04,726
and I think that a lot of the advertising
and marketing that we did back then
336
00:19:04,810 --> 00:19:08,021
was not respectful of women
337
00:19:08,105 --> 00:19:12,734
and just appealed to men,
men who wanna get laid.
338
00:19:14,987 --> 00:19:19,366
{\an8}You're thinking, "Ashley Madison, sex."
339
00:19:19,449 --> 00:19:20,826
That's where the problem lay.
340
00:19:21,535 --> 00:19:24,246
[female reporter] AshleyMadison.com
is no stranger to rejection.
341
00:19:24,329 --> 00:19:27,875
The company has struggled
to get its racy ads approved.
342
00:19:28,625 --> 00:19:31,587
It was virtually impossible
to get ads on television.
343
00:19:31,670 --> 00:19:34,882
No mainstream networks would take us.
344
00:19:36,925 --> 00:19:40,053
CBS said, "We're no longer gonna
let you air these ads on CSI."
345
00:19:40,137 --> 00:19:42,931
Why do you need some executive
sitting in an ivory tower,
346
00:19:43,015 --> 00:19:45,475
saying, "This should see
the light of day," or, "That should"?
347
00:19:45,559 --> 00:19:47,102
That's not how we should do it.
348
00:19:50,689 --> 00:19:52,107
[Evan] It was a tough time.
349
00:19:52,191 --> 00:19:53,901
[intriguing music plays]
350
00:19:54,818 --> 00:19:58,280
Myself and Noel,
you know, eat and breathed
351
00:19:58,363 --> 00:20:03,452
and lived and thought about
growing Ashley Madison 24/7.
352
00:20:06,205 --> 00:20:09,291
We couldn't make a commercial
and put it on television,
353
00:20:09,958 --> 00:20:13,921
but Noel's original
stroke of brilliance came
354
00:20:14,004 --> 00:20:17,090
when he became the face of Ashley Madison.
355
00:20:19,009 --> 00:20:25,390
We had a PR and Communications Department
that spent all day long
356
00:20:25,474 --> 00:20:28,936
trying to get
television-show gigs for Noel.
357
00:20:29,728 --> 00:20:32,564
Now we were on the offensive all the time.
358
00:20:32,648 --> 00:20:36,235
{\an8}Really? A dating site
for extramarital affairs?
359
00:20:36,318 --> 00:20:38,612
Its founder, Noel Biderman, is here.
360
00:20:39,863 --> 00:20:43,408
[Marc] He believed that an affair
could really be beneficial,
361
00:20:43,492 --> 00:20:45,494
therapeutic and... and helpful.
362
00:20:46,078 --> 00:20:48,455
This was the point
that he was gonna drive across,
363
00:20:48,538 --> 00:20:53,418
and probably took it to a level
that no one else would've or could have.
364
00:20:53,502 --> 00:20:57,881
{\an8}I read that you actually think
that this is a marriage saver. How so?
365
00:20:57,965 --> 00:20:59,174
{\an8}It's a preservation device
366
00:20:59,258 --> 00:21:01,718
{\an8}for so many people
who are in a marriage, who say...
367
00:21:01,802 --> 00:21:03,136
{\an8}- No, no.
- [audience groans]
368
00:21:03,220 --> 00:21:05,323
{\an8}They love their partners,
they cherish their children.
369
00:21:05,347 --> 00:21:08,392
{\an8}No, love and sex are different things,
they're very different things.
370
00:21:08,475 --> 00:21:09,810
{\an8}[Evan] Noel didn't back down.
371
00:21:09,893 --> 00:21:12,312
{\an8}He's a lawyer, right? He's a debater.
372
00:21:12,396 --> 00:21:16,441
{\an8}He believed if you're in a marriage,
373
00:21:16,525 --> 00:21:18,694
and you don't want
to break up the marriage,
374
00:21:18,777 --> 00:21:20,237
you love your spouse,
375
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:22,781
but you're just not fulfilled physically,
376
00:21:22,864 --> 00:21:26,451
you're no good in your marriage
if you're unhappy.
377
00:21:26,952 --> 00:21:30,622
So go get happy,
and then you can love your spouse more
378
00:21:31,248 --> 00:21:32,833
because you're not resenting them.
379
00:21:32,916 --> 00:21:34,793
Marriage is preserved through infidelity.
380
00:21:34,876 --> 00:21:37,170
- You may not believe it. So many people...
- [woman] No!
381
00:21:37,254 --> 00:21:40,173
- Of course, you're wrong...
- Really, do you believe that rubbish?
382
00:21:40,257 --> 00:21:41,300
Oh c... It's not rubbish.
383
00:21:41,383 --> 00:21:44,761
{\an8}There's no proof that somehow
romantic love should be exclusionary.
384
00:21:44,845 --> 00:21:48,098
{\an8}You wouldn't tell me, I have two children,
I can only love one of them.
385
00:21:48,181 --> 00:21:51,393
{\an8}That would be a ridiculous notion.
But somehow I can only love one woman.
386
00:21:52,269 --> 00:21:55,480
If... if you just talk to your wife
or you talk to your husband,
387
00:21:56,148 --> 00:22:00,902
you would find out there's a lot more
going on with them sexually,
388
00:22:00,986 --> 00:22:03,280
but most people
don't like to talk to each other.
389
00:22:03,363 --> 00:22:06,867
So I'm sure there were a lot of people
that had crazy nights
390
00:22:06,950 --> 00:22:09,411
that were so happy
because they met on Ashley Madison.
391
00:22:09,494 --> 00:22:11,496
[pleasant music plays]
392
00:22:20,756 --> 00:22:25,135
[Rob] When I first joined Ashley Madison,
I was happy with my wife.
393
00:22:25,719 --> 00:22:30,015
I had been a married guy
for almost six years,
394
00:22:30,098 --> 00:22:32,559
but being married is very difficult.
395
00:22:32,642 --> 00:22:35,854
Ya know, we're all stressed out from work,
and we have a... a child,
396
00:22:35,937 --> 00:22:37,230
and we're not communicating,
397
00:22:37,314 --> 00:22:41,068
and we're not really
spending time with each other talking,
398
00:22:41,151 --> 00:22:42,951
and really finding out
about each other's day.
399
00:22:43,028 --> 00:22:45,364
And... and that causes stress
in a relationship.
400
00:22:45,447 --> 00:22:49,409
And, um, I... I think sometimes
your sex life can get a little boring
401
00:22:49,493 --> 00:22:51,995
if you're with the same person
for 20, 30 years.
402
00:22:52,079 --> 00:22:55,040
Sometimes you need somethin'
to mix it up a little bit.
403
00:22:56,917 --> 00:23:00,504
There was one girl on Ashley Madison,
she was really beautiful,
404
00:23:00,587 --> 00:23:02,506
didn't think she'd be interested in me.
405
00:23:03,715 --> 00:23:06,385
But, uh, she got back to me
and we started talking,
406
00:23:06,468 --> 00:23:09,930
and sometimes you have a connection
even through e-mails with somebody.
407
00:23:10,013 --> 00:23:11,681
You just kind of are on the same page.
408
00:23:12,891 --> 00:23:14,476
And you just kinda get them.
409
00:23:15,644 --> 00:23:18,188
We arranged to meet at a park,
up where she lived.
410
00:23:19,523 --> 00:23:21,400
I drove up there to meet her.
411
00:23:21,483 --> 00:23:24,486
It was really exciting.
I... I didn't know how it was gonna go.
412
00:23:26,988 --> 00:23:31,159
And I remember seeing her from far away,
and I was happy that she was there.
413
00:23:33,537 --> 00:23:37,124
Kinda met, we talked,
we started kissing rather quickly.
414
00:23:37,207 --> 00:23:39,793
I asked her if she wanted to get a room
and she said yes.
415
00:23:43,463 --> 00:23:45,215
You could feel the tension between us.
416
00:23:48,885 --> 00:23:50,011
And, um...
417
00:23:50,637 --> 00:23:52,180
we kinda did what we do.
418
00:23:56,143 --> 00:23:58,937
[phone vibrating loudly]
419
00:23:59,020 --> 00:24:01,731
{\an8}It was all supposed to be a secret.
420
00:24:01,815 --> 00:24:06,361
{\an8}That's why they use the adultery website
AshleyMadison.com.
421
00:24:06,445 --> 00:24:10,323
"Hey! They'd have done it on their own.
I was just helping them."
422
00:24:10,407 --> 00:24:13,243
I mean, that's just what Satan says.
423
00:24:13,326 --> 00:24:15,328
[rhythmic music plays]
424
00:24:17,747 --> 00:24:21,668
[Evan] There's an old
advertising expression which we lived by.
425
00:24:22,252 --> 00:24:26,631
Talk good about me, talk bad about me,
but please talk about me.
426
00:24:26,715 --> 00:24:28,091
[groans]
427
00:24:28,175 --> 00:24:30,969
[reporter 1] Ashley Madison,
a... a sort of dating site,
428
00:24:31,052 --> 00:24:35,140
that brings adulterers together
so that they can betray their spouses.
429
00:24:35,223 --> 00:24:37,434
Setting up affairs
that are gonna cause divorce,
430
00:24:37,517 --> 00:24:40,353
ripping apart families, lives,
the lives of kids.
431
00:24:40,437 --> 00:24:41,938
As if it's not disturbing enough
432
00:24:42,022 --> 00:24:44,107
a service like that
exists in the first place,
433
00:24:44,191 --> 00:24:46,693
well, now it's actually
gaining popularity.
434
00:24:46,776 --> 00:24:48,987
America, what has happened to our morals?
435
00:24:49,070 --> 00:24:50,697
We actually preferred it
436
00:24:50,780 --> 00:24:54,034
when they were saying negative things
about Ashley Madison
437
00:24:54,117 --> 00:24:56,828
because those stories went viral.
438
00:24:56,912 --> 00:24:58,038
It's brand building.
439
00:24:58,121 --> 00:25:00,582
Ashley Madison. Ashley Madison.
Ashley Madison.
440
00:25:00,665 --> 00:25:03,877
The Ashley Madison website
is... is morally reprehensible.
441
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:07,005
Uh, the owner is promoting adultery.
442
00:25:07,088 --> 00:25:09,466
- [reporter 2] AshleyMadison.com...
- [woman] Terrible!
443
00:25:09,549 --> 00:25:11,051
- Ashley Madison.
- It's immoral!
444
00:25:11,134 --> 00:25:13,845
There was a moral outrage
because infidelity,
445
00:25:13,929 --> 00:25:16,765
in the Bible, says,
"Thou shalt not commit adultery."
446
00:25:16,848 --> 00:25:18,808
That's one of the big ten. Right?
447
00:25:18,892 --> 00:25:20,936
Encouraging more of this behavior.
448
00:25:21,019 --> 00:25:24,981
[Marc] Of course, they don't know
there's 613 commandments, actually,
449
00:25:25,065 --> 00:25:26,065
not just ten.
450
00:25:26,483 --> 00:25:28,401
And one of them is "don't eat shrimp."
451
00:25:28,485 --> 00:25:32,030
So, you know,
you're already breaking that law.
452
00:25:32,113 --> 00:25:34,241
[woman]
Don't pretend like it's morally neutral.
453
00:25:34,324 --> 00:25:35,724
Of course, it shouldn't be illegal,
454
00:25:35,784 --> 00:25:38,745
but I don't know how you look
at yourself in the mirror every day.
455
00:25:38,828 --> 00:25:42,415
[Evan] A lot of people felt
we were bringing misery on people's lives
456
00:25:42,499 --> 00:25:44,042
by breaking up marriages.
457
00:25:44,125 --> 00:25:46,670
My initial reaction was,
well, people are gonna cheat.
458
00:25:46,753 --> 00:25:48,421
Like, it wasn't shocking to me.
459
00:25:49,631 --> 00:25:53,593
But with Ashley Madison,
they were doing it safely and securely.
460
00:25:57,472 --> 00:26:01,601
{\an8}Secrecy and discretion
were central to the brand.
461
00:26:01,685 --> 00:26:03,728
[rhythmic music plays]
462
00:26:07,399 --> 00:26:10,694
This was my first real job
out of business school,
463
00:26:11,403 --> 00:26:14,114
and speaking to friends and family,
464
00:26:14,197 --> 00:26:18,535
it was apparent that people who work there
and the company itself
465
00:26:18,618 --> 00:26:21,204
was not seen in a very positive light.
466
00:26:22,122 --> 00:26:27,168
But I realized it was quite different
than literally everything else out there.
467
00:26:27,877 --> 00:26:32,007
Every department had to get creative
because there was no real playbook
468
00:26:32,090 --> 00:26:34,759
for running a web service
such as this one.
469
00:26:39,723 --> 00:26:41,016
{\an8}My name is Cathy,
470
00:26:41,558 --> 00:26:43,643
{\an8}and I was
a customer-service representative,
471
00:26:44,269 --> 00:26:47,147
and I worked at Ashley Madison
for four and a half years.
472
00:26:49,482 --> 00:26:53,737
I am totally, 100% monogamy... [laughs]
473
00:26:53,820 --> 00:26:56,114
...but I don't judge people
that aren't monogamous.
474
00:26:57,949 --> 00:27:00,910
- [phone rings]
- I had a lot of wives calling.
475
00:27:01,828 --> 00:27:06,207
They would say,
"I have this $19 charge on my card."
476
00:27:06,291 --> 00:27:07,626
"I don't recognize it."
477
00:27:08,501 --> 00:27:11,296
We would just tell them, ya know,
"It's not your name on the card."
478
00:27:11,379 --> 00:27:13,506
"Unfortunately, we're unable
to assist you."
479
00:27:15,133 --> 00:27:17,135
But, uh, the majority would get mad.
480
00:27:17,218 --> 00:27:19,220
"Well, this is my husband's credit card."
481
00:27:19,929 --> 00:27:23,266
So a... a lot would call back
with their husbands.
482
00:27:24,934 --> 00:27:26,061
[Amit] Agents would say,
483
00:27:26,144 --> 00:27:29,773
"Well, we are
a generalized billing company,
484
00:27:29,856 --> 00:27:33,360
and we bill across
many different web properties..."
485
00:27:33,443 --> 00:27:34,443
Which was true.
486
00:27:35,028 --> 00:27:40,825
"... so we are unsure
of exactly what this ties back to,
487
00:27:41,451 --> 00:27:44,704
but we will reverse the charge
so you don't have to worry about it."
488
00:27:45,372 --> 00:27:47,957
The customer would reply back,
saying, "Thank you."
489
00:27:48,458 --> 00:27:50,168
"Here is another credit card."
490
00:27:53,213 --> 00:27:57,258
And believe me, I think I saved
a lot of marriages. [laughs]
491
00:27:57,842 --> 00:28:02,055
And that's the idea.
We weren't there to destroy any marriages.
492
00:28:02,138 --> 00:28:04,140
[delicate music plays]
493
00:28:09,938 --> 00:28:14,734
[Nia] As a kid, when I thought
of getting married and settling down
494
00:28:14,818 --> 00:28:18,196
and that happily ever after
was like everything.
495
00:28:19,489 --> 00:28:22,200
I couldn't wait
to be the grown-up version of myself
496
00:28:22,283 --> 00:28:26,371
and finally find, like, you know,
the man that was gonna be
497
00:28:27,247 --> 00:28:28,247
my soulmate.
498
00:28:30,875 --> 00:28:36,089
I would say avoiding infidelity
in my marriage was like top of my list.
499
00:28:37,799 --> 00:28:39,801
Sam, he checked my boxes.
500
00:28:39,884 --> 00:28:43,555
He was a Christian,
he didn't party, he was a kind guy,
501
00:28:43,638 --> 00:28:46,391
and he had really strong morals.
502
00:28:47,475 --> 00:28:52,439
And I also really had faith in his faith,
knew that he was a Christian.
503
00:28:52,522 --> 00:28:55,900
I knew that he had a relationship with God
when I met him.
504
00:28:58,361 --> 00:29:00,071
[Sam] I hid the app on my phone.
505
00:29:00,155 --> 00:29:04,409
I would hide it within a folder
and dump a lot of other things in there.
506
00:29:04,492 --> 00:29:07,370
So if she was looking for anything,
she wouldn't click on that folder.
507
00:29:07,454 --> 00:29:08,830
It'd be just full of junk.
508
00:29:10,039 --> 00:29:12,292
[mysterious music plays]
509
00:29:12,375 --> 00:29:16,379
I paid for elite membership to give me
more features such as messaging.
510
00:29:16,463 --> 00:29:17,672
[mouse clicks]
511
00:29:17,756 --> 00:29:19,507
Maybe multiple winks,
512
00:29:19,591 --> 00:29:23,219
because Ashley Madison had that function
where you could go wink at each other.
513
00:29:23,303 --> 00:29:24,846
And I think maybe they also said
514
00:29:24,929 --> 00:29:27,599
your messages to the women
would be prioritized
515
00:29:27,682 --> 00:29:29,309
over other men's messages.
516
00:29:29,392 --> 00:29:32,437
My stupid screen name was
dirty_little_secret_man.
517
00:29:35,648 --> 00:29:39,277
It gave me a list of women
in the Dallas area who wanna cheat.
518
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,237
You see little profile photos.
519
00:29:44,157 --> 00:29:46,659
They would put things
on their profiles such as,
520
00:29:46,743 --> 00:29:49,537
"Just lookin' to have a good time
outside of my marriage," or,
521
00:29:49,621 --> 00:29:51,790
"My husband's not sexually satisfying me."
522
00:29:54,042 --> 00:29:57,212
If I came across a photo
that was pornographic at all,
523
00:29:57,295 --> 00:29:59,214
I would generally just skip it.
524
00:29:59,297 --> 00:30:03,843
The ones that attracted me most were ones
that were more natural, more real-looking.
525
00:30:04,636 --> 00:30:09,015
Not so out there. "Come get me, sexually,
I'm half naked and this is all for you,"
526
00:30:09,098 --> 00:30:10,391
you know, type thing.
527
00:30:10,975 --> 00:30:14,646
First, I wasn't actually out to have sex,
I don't think.
528
00:30:14,729 --> 00:30:16,815
I dunno what I was out for, to be honest.
529
00:30:17,398 --> 00:30:20,401
I wanted attention.
I wanted something exciting.
530
00:30:21,277 --> 00:30:23,363
But I wasn't crazy horny, you know?
531
00:30:23,446 --> 00:30:25,448
My wife was satisfying me.
532
00:30:25,532 --> 00:30:29,285
[sighs] But I did respond. I feel like
I responded to everybody in my area,
533
00:30:29,369 --> 00:30:33,498
and then once that was exhausted,
I had to start reaching beyond my area.
534
00:30:36,417 --> 00:30:41,172
[Nia] There was this sense
when he was working nights,
535
00:30:41,256 --> 00:30:43,591
he was distancing himself from me.
536
00:30:44,425 --> 00:30:47,554
I was kind of like a single mom
for, ya know, half of the week.
537
00:30:49,138 --> 00:30:51,641
But I really used
all of the moments I was given
538
00:30:51,724 --> 00:30:53,434
to, like, keep the love alive
539
00:30:53,518 --> 00:30:57,063
and keep, like, my devotion
to him really evident.
540
00:30:57,146 --> 00:31:00,066
Like, just the way
that I got his clothes ready for work,
541
00:31:00,149 --> 00:31:02,485
greeting him when he came home,
542
00:31:02,569 --> 00:31:05,280
waking up really, really early
to have food prepared for him
543
00:31:05,363 --> 00:31:07,532
when he would get home
from those night shifts.
544
00:31:08,491 --> 00:31:10,159
I did wanna be the perfect wife.
545
00:31:10,243 --> 00:31:13,079
I... It was... it was honestly just, like,
what I wanted,
546
00:31:13,162 --> 00:31:16,332
and I wanted him to feel, like,
lucky in a way
547
00:31:16,416 --> 00:31:19,419
and not as a reflection of me,
but I just loved him.
548
00:31:24,299 --> 00:31:27,060
[Sam] When I finally did get in touch
with one of the ladies on there,
549
00:31:28,219 --> 00:31:31,514
um, of course, I was excited
that she was actually responding to me,
550
00:31:31,598 --> 00:31:33,141
and that she wanted to meet up.
551
00:31:33,641 --> 00:31:34,642
Um...
552
00:31:35,143 --> 00:31:36,561
Uh, I was scared as well.
553
00:31:36,644 --> 00:31:38,813
I was just like,
"Am I really gonna meet this person?"
554
00:31:38,897 --> 00:31:41,232
And once I meet them,
what the heck are we gonna do?
555
00:31:41,316 --> 00:31:43,318
[mysterious music plays]
556
00:31:48,656 --> 00:31:52,327
[man] Is it really that unusual
for women to be the cheaters?
557
00:31:52,410 --> 00:31:56,080
{\an8}Absolutely not. They are actually driving
this wave of infidelity.
558
00:31:56,164 --> 00:31:58,499
{\an8}Their first big jump, women?
The workplace.
559
00:31:58,583 --> 00:32:00,668
{\an8}That's when they started having affairs
en masse.
560
00:32:00,752 --> 00:32:02,253
{\an8}Internet is that second big jump,
561
00:32:02,337 --> 00:32:04,547
{\an8}and they are starting
to behave more and more like men.
562
00:32:04,631 --> 00:32:09,052
You need a good mix of both sexes
for this thing to work.
563
00:32:09,135 --> 00:32:10,553
Women were vital.
564
00:32:10,637 --> 00:32:12,347
[anxious piano music plays]
565
00:32:12,430 --> 00:32:17,518
Women could join and become fully
functional members for free, forever.
566
00:32:17,602 --> 00:32:19,354
They never buy anything.
567
00:32:19,437 --> 00:32:21,940
I mean, if you don't have women,
568
00:32:22,023 --> 00:32:27,028
then you don't have anybody corresponding
with the men who are paying.
569
00:32:27,111 --> 00:32:31,741
[female narrator] Have you ever found
yourself on a really bad blind date?
570
00:32:31,824 --> 00:32:35,244
[Claire] Ashley Madison was always
advertising to women,
571
00:32:35,328 --> 00:32:37,080
and the company was always saying,
572
00:32:37,163 --> 00:32:40,166
"We're a site for women,
we have so many women on our site."
573
00:32:40,750 --> 00:32:42,585
So my character is this married woman,
574
00:32:42,669 --> 00:32:45,046
hard-done-by woman
who's basically been a doormat,
575
00:32:45,129 --> 00:32:47,340
I would imagine
for the entirety of her marriage.
576
00:32:47,423 --> 00:32:49,467
She's on a date with her husband.
577
00:32:49,550 --> 00:32:52,679
{\an8}Supposed to appear as a blind date,
but they're celebrating their anniversary.
578
00:32:54,722 --> 00:32:58,434
One of the things Noel would always claim,
he'd say, "I'm a postmodern feminist."
579
00:32:58,518 --> 00:33:00,603
"I'm just trying to make things
better for women."
580
00:33:00,687 --> 00:33:05,024
"I am trying to help them, ya know, escape
the bounds of patriarchal marriage."
581
00:33:05,108 --> 00:33:06,868
[Noel] I think it'll speak
to a ton of women,
582
00:33:06,943 --> 00:33:08,236
it's genuinely how they feel.
583
00:33:08,319 --> 00:33:11,364
{\an8}Their husband's just non-attentive
to what their needs are,
584
00:33:11,447 --> 00:33:12,657
{\an8}is rude and inconsiderate,
585
00:33:12,740 --> 00:33:15,535
{\an8}and they're seriously considering
what the alternatives might be.
586
00:33:15,618 --> 00:33:19,288
And that might be visiting Ashley Madison
and finding... finding a new lover.
587
00:33:19,372 --> 00:33:20,372
[phone keys beeping]
588
00:33:20,415 --> 00:33:24,002
[female narrator] Now imagine that date
lasting the rest of your life.
589
00:33:25,378 --> 00:33:28,506
[Evan] The idea was,
you have a bunch of women at home,
590
00:33:29,424 --> 00:33:33,970
you perk the ears up
of the ones who aren't happily married.
591
00:33:34,053 --> 00:33:36,222
Why should you go your whole life
592
00:33:36,305 --> 00:33:40,268
in this loveless, sexless,
you know, marriage?
593
00:33:40,351 --> 00:33:42,437
You've only got one life to live,
life is short.
594
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:44,522
[contemplative music plays]
595
00:33:55,074 --> 00:34:00,538
{\an8}[woman] To maintain that monogamous,
faithful, loving relationship,
596
00:34:01,330 --> 00:34:02,331
{\an8}it gets so hard.
597
00:34:03,541 --> 00:34:05,835
{\an8}You begin to take advantage of each other.
598
00:34:07,045 --> 00:34:08,337
You don't show the love as much.
599
00:34:10,715 --> 00:34:14,260
They still need to feel desired,
loved, and wanted,
600
00:34:14,343 --> 00:34:16,471
not just like a roommate.
601
00:34:21,225 --> 00:34:25,063
It was hard
to just be with just one person,
602
00:34:25,605 --> 00:34:28,858
and even though I'm, like, going,
"Okay, I love this person,"
603
00:34:28,941 --> 00:34:30,943
ya know, "I'm not gonna cheat on 'em..."
604
00:34:31,027 --> 00:34:33,446
Um, but then I cheat on 'em, you know?
605
00:34:33,529 --> 00:34:35,990
Then I say,
"Okay, I'm not gonna cheat on this one,"
606
00:34:36,074 --> 00:34:37,241
and then I cheat on 'em.
607
00:34:37,325 --> 00:34:40,620
And I'm like, "Fuck," you know?
Am I... am I a serial cheater?
608
00:34:46,542 --> 00:34:50,171
But everyone I've ever been with
knows I'm a sexual person.
609
00:34:52,131 --> 00:34:53,466
I had one boyfriend,
610
00:34:53,549 --> 00:34:57,929
and the reason I cheated on him
was because he's playing video games.
611
00:34:58,012 --> 00:35:00,389
And I'm like, "Dude, let's bone."
612
00:35:00,473 --> 00:35:02,767
And he's like,
"Okay, let me finish this game."
613
00:35:02,850 --> 00:35:05,353
I'm like, "Are you fucking kidding me?
I'm horny."
614
00:35:05,436 --> 00:35:07,688
And so I cheated on him.
615
00:35:09,732 --> 00:35:10,566
I felt bad,
616
00:35:10,650 --> 00:35:12,693
but I always had a reason to cheat,
you know?
617
00:35:12,777 --> 00:35:15,029
And I know that's no excuse, you know?
618
00:35:15,113 --> 00:35:18,074
But I'm, like, going, ya know, "One guy,
okay, I cheated on you,"
619
00:35:18,157 --> 00:35:20,785
um, "because you didn't give me
enough attention,"
620
00:35:20,868 --> 00:35:22,036
and that's his own fault.
621
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,665
And then, um, my ex-husband,
he wasn't in town.
622
00:35:25,748 --> 00:35:28,209
He was in the military and he was away,
623
00:35:28,751 --> 00:35:31,671
and I was really horny,
and I met a hot guy.
624
00:35:31,754 --> 00:35:35,133
So then he and I were fucking for a while.
625
00:35:35,842 --> 00:35:38,636
It was nice to have something different,
626
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:41,931
to have a man touch you different.
627
00:35:42,014 --> 00:35:46,227
Like, when you're in a long relationship,
it gets routine.
628
00:35:46,310 --> 00:35:48,521
It's just a chore just to have sex,
to get a nut,
629
00:35:48,604 --> 00:35:51,315
then you're like, "Okay,"
roll off each other and go to bed now.
630
00:35:54,068 --> 00:35:56,487
So when I first heard
about the site Ashley Madison,
631
00:35:56,571 --> 00:35:58,489
I thought it was a great fucking idea.
632
00:35:58,573 --> 00:36:01,701
You go on a site
and you're able to talk to this stranger,
633
00:36:02,201 --> 00:36:04,662
and tell him your deepest,
darkest desires,
634
00:36:05,454 --> 00:36:07,248
and they're not gonna judge you for it.
635
00:36:07,331 --> 00:36:08,875
No strings attached.
636
00:36:08,958 --> 00:36:10,543
This is strictly sex.
637
00:36:10,626 --> 00:36:14,172
I'm married. I'm happily married.
I'm not leaving my husband.
638
00:36:14,255 --> 00:36:16,007
Um, this is just sex.
639
00:36:16,090 --> 00:36:20,928
Everyone deserves to be sexually fulfilled
and mentally fulfilled.
640
00:36:21,971 --> 00:36:23,973
[anxious violin music plays]
641
00:36:33,941 --> 00:36:38,070
[Evan] By 2012, it was a lot of growth,
a lot of members,
642
00:36:38,154 --> 00:36:41,782
but once we started to launch
in some other countries,
643
00:36:42,575 --> 00:36:43,784
it went crazy.
644
00:36:43,868 --> 00:36:49,916
[announcers speaking in various languages]
645
00:36:49,999 --> 00:36:52,418
{\an8}We are now in 35 countries, 15 languages,
646
00:36:52,501 --> 00:36:55,713
{\an8}and there's really no marketplace
that we can't see us expanding into.
647
00:36:57,298 --> 00:37:00,218
It was very much a concerted effort
648
00:37:00,301 --> 00:37:05,514
into having things tailored
to fit that country.
649
00:37:06,557 --> 00:37:10,895
[Evan] Our marketing guy came up
with the idea for a billboard in India.
650
00:37:10,978 --> 00:37:15,441
"Your parents arranged your marriage.
Let us help you with your affair."
651
00:37:15,524 --> 00:37:18,236
[laughs] And people were outraged.
652
00:37:18,319 --> 00:37:20,196
I mean, outraged.
653
00:37:20,279 --> 00:37:21,405
I think it was funny.
654
00:37:21,489 --> 00:37:23,950
{\an8}We're now in the arranged marriage realm
in India,
655
00:37:24,033 --> 00:37:26,827
{\an8}we're in places where divorce is illegal,
in the Philippines,
656
00:37:26,911 --> 00:37:28,329
{\an8}even the Muslim world, in Turkey.
657
00:37:28,412 --> 00:37:31,374
I mean, we were on a roll,
like a snowball going down a mountain.
658
00:37:32,166 --> 00:37:33,876
I mean, the growth was incredible.
659
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:37,129
There were months and months and months
where we would just double our revenue.
660
00:37:37,213 --> 00:37:38,923
Doubled, doubled, continuously doubled.
661
00:37:39,006 --> 00:37:41,092
{\an8}Now we're a real business,
a global business, right?
662
00:37:41,175 --> 00:37:43,719
{\an8}In 46 countries,
generating over $100,000,000 a year.
663
00:37:43,803 --> 00:37:49,850
By 2015, we had 35 to 40 million members
at Ashley Madison.
664
00:37:53,271 --> 00:37:55,022
[dramatic music plays]
665
00:37:57,525 --> 00:38:00,111
[Amit] Things started scaling
up very quickly,
666
00:38:00,611 --> 00:38:03,197
and security was
667
00:38:04,657 --> 00:38:07,201
something that came up quite frequently.
668
00:38:07,285 --> 00:38:08,411
We talked about it.
669
00:38:08,494 --> 00:38:10,246
We were worried about it,
670
00:38:10,329 --> 00:38:13,958
but it just kept
falling to the back burner
671
00:38:14,041 --> 00:38:18,045
because it was understood
that we could make this work
672
00:38:18,129 --> 00:38:21,340
while keeping up with our growth plans.
673
00:38:21,424 --> 00:38:25,052
That is what everyone was focused on,
every single day.
674
00:38:27,930 --> 00:38:33,394
I think it was very well understood that
if any of the web properties were hacked,
675
00:38:34,186 --> 00:38:37,231
it would have been almost catastrophic.
676
00:38:37,898 --> 00:38:40,943
The hope was that it wouldn't happen.
677
00:38:43,738 --> 00:38:45,156
The anonymous way you sign up,
678
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:47,616
the discreet nature
of their communication platform,
679
00:38:47,700 --> 00:38:49,035
the billing being secretive,
680
00:38:49,118 --> 00:38:51,871
and ultimately our servers,
which sit in a remote location.
681
00:38:51,954 --> 00:38:52,872
{\an8}Kind of untouchable.
682
00:38:52,955 --> 00:38:56,250
{\an8}So I think we do everything we can
to protect privacy.
683
00:38:56,751 --> 00:38:57,751
Well...
684
00:38:59,670 --> 00:39:04,050
You know, when I watch that, we know
it's kinda snake oil salesman, right?
685
00:39:04,133 --> 00:39:06,010
It's not true.
I mean, we know it's not true.
686
00:39:06,093 --> 00:39:11,849
The promise of security and anonymity
and guarantee and... and safety
687
00:39:12,350 --> 00:39:13,976
was just something we said.
688
00:39:14,518 --> 00:39:16,145
It wasn't something we did.
689
00:39:16,228 --> 00:39:18,230
[intriguing music plays]
690
00:39:18,939 --> 00:39:21,317
For people to run a company
691
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:26,864
that is based on security
and keeping your clients' secrets,
692
00:39:26,947 --> 00:39:28,407
and protecting your clients,
693
00:39:28,491 --> 00:39:31,619
and having very little security,
you're pushing it to the limits.
694
00:39:31,702 --> 00:39:33,496
How far can I go
695
00:39:33,579 --> 00:39:36,082
before someone's going to come in
and hack us?
696
00:39:37,124 --> 00:39:40,252
It was like gambling with people's lives.
697
00:39:42,838 --> 00:39:45,424
For Noel,
it's all about pushing the boundaries.
698
00:39:45,508 --> 00:39:47,188
Pushing the envelope,
pushing the envelope,
699
00:39:47,218 --> 00:39:48,803
that's part of his personality.
700
00:39:48,886 --> 00:39:51,764
He wants to fly
as close to the sun as possible.
701
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:56,477
{\an8}[woman] Noel Biderman and his wife Amanda
702
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:58,400
{\an8}join us in studio this morning
to talk about...
703
00:39:58,437 --> 00:40:00,815
{\an8}[Noel] I got married later in life
than some of my friends.
704
00:40:00,898 --> 00:40:02,066
{\an8}I think I was 31.
705
00:40:02,149 --> 00:40:04,430
But I, too, kind of have bought
into the narrative, right?
706
00:40:04,485 --> 00:40:07,780
I'm trying to live a monogamous life,
raising a traditional family.
707
00:40:07,863 --> 00:40:14,370
It just so happens that I help
millions of people break with tradition
708
00:40:14,453 --> 00:40:21,419
and, you know, uh, stray on their spouses,
and I'm okay with that. [laughs]
709
00:40:21,502 --> 00:40:25,673
Noel would bring his wife Amanda
onto these TV appearances with him,
710
00:40:25,756 --> 00:40:30,886
which must have made it extra enticing
for the producers of these talk shows, uh,
711
00:40:30,970 --> 00:40:34,682
that, ya know, not only do we get, uh,
this man, the king of infidelity,
712
00:40:34,765 --> 00:40:38,477
who runs this website for affairs
but claims to have never had one,
713
00:40:38,561 --> 00:40:40,187
but we also get his wife, you know?
714
00:40:40,271 --> 00:40:43,149
Well, of course we wanna talk to the wife
of the king of infidelity.
715
00:40:43,232 --> 00:40:44,900
Like, we wanna know what she has to say.
716
00:40:46,152 --> 00:40:49,071
The co-founder and CEO, and his wife,
are here to tell us...
717
00:40:49,155 --> 00:40:51,866
[Evan] He convinced her
to come on The View.
718
00:40:51,949 --> 00:40:54,952
Whatever she's saying,
it's because Noel has prepped her.
719
00:40:55,035 --> 00:40:57,580
But you're now the face
of the advertising for it.
720
00:40:57,663 --> 00:41:00,124
Which I guess leads me to the question...
There you are.
721
00:41:00,207 --> 00:41:02,209
[Amanda] You know, having myself up there,
722
00:41:02,293 --> 00:41:04,753
in my mind,
it's gonna spawn on some conversations
723
00:41:04,837 --> 00:41:07,965
amongst married people
who don't even talk about this issue.
724
00:41:08,716 --> 00:41:12,219
And they talked about
how good their own marriage was,
725
00:41:12,845 --> 00:41:14,722
and completely monogamous,
726
00:41:15,556 --> 00:41:18,434
and then used that to promote Ashley,
727
00:41:18,517 --> 00:41:21,854
but say, "But not everybody
has a great marriage like ours."
728
00:41:21,937 --> 00:41:26,901
I would be devastated if he did it to me,
but I would not blame a website.
729
00:41:26,984 --> 00:41:29,445
Ashley Madison is not creating cheaters.
730
00:41:29,528 --> 00:41:31,071
It is servicing a need.
731
00:41:31,155 --> 00:41:33,699
[producer] How would you feel
if your husband cheated on you?
732
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:35,493
Um...
733
00:41:37,119 --> 00:41:38,119
Well...
734
00:41:38,787 --> 00:41:40,164
I would be shocked.
735
00:41:40,247 --> 00:41:42,750
My husband and I are
in a 23-year relationship,
736
00:41:42,833 --> 00:41:44,168
completely monogamous,
737
00:41:44,919 --> 00:41:47,379
but I don't think I would blame him.
738
00:41:48,339 --> 00:41:51,300
Ashley Madison taught me that
739
00:41:52,051 --> 00:41:55,930
the cheater
is not the only person to blame.
740
00:41:57,056 --> 00:41:58,724
If somebody is cheating,
741
00:41:59,350 --> 00:42:03,312
either they're a narcissistic sociopath
and they just...
742
00:42:03,395 --> 00:42:05,814
It's in their makeup,
and there's nothing you can do.
743
00:42:05,898 --> 00:42:08,234
But most of the time when people cheat,
744
00:42:08,317 --> 00:42:10,903
it's because something's broken
in their union,
745
00:42:10,986 --> 00:42:12,821
in their partnership, in their marriage.
746
00:42:12,905 --> 00:42:14,907
[jazz music plays]
747
00:42:18,661 --> 00:42:20,579
[Rob] I feel that
there are a lot of people
748
00:42:20,663 --> 00:42:23,499
that are not effective
and honest communicators.
749
00:42:24,750 --> 00:42:29,255
I consider myself one of the happiest
married men that I... that I know,
750
00:42:29,338 --> 00:42:32,675
simply because I have options
that my friends do not have.
751
00:42:34,218 --> 00:42:35,344
I can meet a girl,
752
00:42:35,427 --> 00:42:38,722
and if we hit it off
I... I can bring her home that night,
753
00:42:38,806 --> 00:42:41,267
if... if I so please. Um...
754
00:42:42,518 --> 00:42:45,271
I'd have to tell my wife about her,
introduce her to my wife,
755
00:42:45,354 --> 00:42:48,857
but that's... that's not a problem
if that were to happen.
756
00:42:54,321 --> 00:42:55,321
- Hey.
- [Stephanie] Hey.
757
00:42:56,031 --> 00:42:57,950
- I made cookies.
- Oh, nice!
758
00:42:59,326 --> 00:43:01,412
You're the best. Honey, you're the best.
759
00:43:01,996 --> 00:43:03,664
- Love these.
- You're welcome.
760
00:43:05,749 --> 00:43:09,253
I let him have sex with other women,
and I'm okay with it.
761
00:43:09,336 --> 00:43:11,463
I do not get jealous at all.
762
00:43:11,547 --> 00:43:14,466
He's mine,
and I know he's gonna come back to me.
763
00:43:14,550 --> 00:43:16,719
I just don't have the jealousy in me.
764
00:43:17,803 --> 00:43:20,055
{\an8}[Rob] I'm honest with women
I talk to on the website.
765
00:43:20,139 --> 00:43:22,349
I... I let them know up front
that I'm married,
766
00:43:22,433 --> 00:43:26,353
and, uh, Ashley Madison was one
of the few choices I had to do that.
767
00:43:26,937 --> 00:43:27,771
We have two rules.
768
00:43:27,855 --> 00:43:32,568
Number one, she always knows where I'm at,
who I'm with, so I'm not hiding anything.
769
00:43:32,651 --> 00:43:34,778
I... I basically get permission
before I go.
770
00:43:34,862 --> 00:43:37,948
And the second rule is I wear a condom,
which is pretty obvious.
771
00:43:38,032 --> 00:43:42,244
If I'm not in the mood, then it's a no,
and he's never thrown a fit or anything.
772
00:43:42,328 --> 00:43:44,371
He's just like, "Okay, it's a no."
You know?
773
00:43:44,455 --> 00:43:46,206
And he tells 'em, "My wife said no."
774
00:43:46,290 --> 00:43:48,125
Want a big salad or a little salad?
775
00:43:48,208 --> 00:43:49,835
[Rob] Uh, the little one's fine.
776
00:43:50,336 --> 00:43:52,129
That way I have more room for cookies.
777
00:43:52,838 --> 00:43:54,048
You're so smart.
778
00:43:55,549 --> 00:43:58,761
My wife's letting me
express my sexual fantasies
779
00:43:58,844 --> 00:44:01,138
and... and... and really
what makes me happy,
780
00:44:01,221 --> 00:44:03,557
and I think it's fair
for her to have the same.
781
00:44:04,892 --> 00:44:06,727
[Stephanie] I am a dominatrix.
782
00:44:06,810 --> 00:44:09,063
I get so high from it.
783
00:44:09,146 --> 00:44:13,275
It's just such a thrill
to have a man under your control.
784
00:44:13,359 --> 00:44:14,902
I'm... I'm... I'm cool with all that.
785
00:44:14,985 --> 00:44:17,905
I think she needs to have
her own sexual expression and outlets.
786
00:44:17,988 --> 00:44:19,948
It's things that I'm not into it all.
787
00:44:20,532 --> 00:44:22,451
I call him Tiny Tim because he's tiny,
788
00:44:23,035 --> 00:44:26,497
and any guy can handle Tiny Tim.
789
00:44:28,332 --> 00:44:29,708
[Rob] I'd be lost without Steph.
790
00:44:29,792 --> 00:44:33,003
If we broke up, I'd be so miserable
'cause I could never replace her.
791
00:44:33,087 --> 00:44:35,756
I could never... I'd be a fool to try to.
792
00:44:36,423 --> 00:44:37,663
[Stephanie] He's my everything.
793
00:44:37,716 --> 00:44:40,719
He's a good father,
and he's a good husband.
794
00:44:40,803 --> 00:44:42,096
He doesn't lie to me.
795
00:44:43,305 --> 00:44:46,892
Consent, the... the other person knows.
I mean, cheating...
796
00:44:46,975 --> 00:44:49,311
I think the real harm when someone cheats
797
00:44:49,395 --> 00:44:51,814
is... is what's done emotionally
and to the trust.
798
00:44:51,897 --> 00:44:53,691
It's not the physical action.
799
00:44:53,774 --> 00:44:55,401
It's not the intercourse itself,
800
00:44:55,484 --> 00:44:59,029
but the... the violation
of... of everything that was sacred,
801
00:44:59,113 --> 00:45:01,990
of communication, of trust, of honesty.
802
00:45:02,074 --> 00:45:04,743
- Uh, I think that's the real issue.
- Yeah.
803
00:45:04,827 --> 00:45:06,829
[mysterious music plays]
804
00:45:08,247 --> 00:45:11,583
[Sam] Constantly lying to Nia,
that was really hard for me.
805
00:45:12,292 --> 00:45:16,088
But there's just a lot that I was seeking
through Ashley Madison.
806
00:45:16,672 --> 00:45:18,549
Validation from other women
807
00:45:18,632 --> 00:45:21,760
and them noticing me was just huge,
808
00:45:22,261 --> 00:45:28,183
and Ashley Madison was just a way for me
to find women who'd be attracted to me,
809
00:45:28,267 --> 00:45:31,186
and so I could suck up their validation.
810
00:45:33,230 --> 00:45:35,023
But during that period of time,
811
00:45:35,107 --> 00:45:38,318
something happened
and that just completely changed my life.
812
00:45:39,236 --> 00:45:41,071
The movie Disney Frozen came out.
813
00:45:41,155 --> 00:45:42,823
We got the soundtrack,
814
00:45:42,906 --> 00:45:46,410
listening to it in the car all the time
just like everybody else.
815
00:45:46,493 --> 00:45:50,205
And I saw that, you know,
all these videos were going viral.
816
00:45:50,289 --> 00:45:53,959
No matter what kinda video you made
regarded to Frozen, it was doing huge.
817
00:45:54,042 --> 00:45:55,627
I was on YouTube seeing this.
818
00:45:55,711 --> 00:45:58,714
So Nia and I were singing to that song,
"Love Is an Open Door."
819
00:45:58,797 --> 00:46:02,801
{\an8}I was like, we gotta sing to this song.
We're... We have to lip-sync this song.
820
00:46:02,885 --> 00:46:07,848
{\an8}♪ I see your face
And it's nothing like I've known before ♪
821
00:46:07,931 --> 00:46:10,267
{\an8}♪ Love is an open door ♪
822
00:46:10,350 --> 00:46:12,227
{\an8}[Sam] We practiced really hard
to perfect it
823
00:46:12,311 --> 00:46:16,064
{\an8}and did several takes of us lip-syncing,
and we finally nailed it.
824
00:46:16,148 --> 00:46:17,691
{\an8}♪...Door ♪
825
00:46:17,775 --> 00:46:19,443
{\an8}♪ Love is an open door ♪
826
00:46:19,526 --> 00:46:21,236
{\an8}- ♪ With you ♪
- ♪ With you ♪
827
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:23,405
{\an8}It was some of the most
fun memories I have,
828
00:46:23,489 --> 00:46:26,366
{\an8}of kinda laying in bed at night,
practicing these lyrics,
829
00:46:26,450 --> 00:46:28,327
{\an8}and we just had so much fun.
830
00:46:28,410 --> 00:46:31,370
Like, the most fun we'd had in a while.
'Cause Sam had been working nights.
831
00:46:31,413 --> 00:46:36,627
It was just such a really sweet time
in our, like, relationship.
832
00:46:36,710 --> 00:46:38,629
Man, it just went crazy viral.
833
00:46:38,712 --> 00:46:41,173
It took off like almost immediately.
834
00:46:41,256 --> 00:46:44,009
It was just millions of views,
I think daily.
835
00:46:44,092 --> 00:46:46,929
I was just, like, mind-blown.
It was like winning... For me...
836
00:46:47,429 --> 00:46:50,641
{\an8}With the validation that I wanted
so much in my life
837
00:46:50,724 --> 00:46:52,100
{\an8}from women, from other people,
838
00:46:52,684 --> 00:46:56,063
to get that validation from YouTube
and the world was just...
839
00:46:56,146 --> 00:46:58,232
It was better than winning the lottery.
840
00:46:58,315 --> 00:47:00,776
Like, that was winning the lottery to me.
It was huge.
841
00:47:00,859 --> 00:47:04,363
"Hi, Sam and Nia, I work for Disney-ABC,
842
00:47:04,905 --> 00:47:07,199
and I'd like to talk to you
about your Frozen video
843
00:47:07,282 --> 00:47:10,244
and incorporating that
into our Christmas special this year."
844
00:47:10,327 --> 00:47:11,954
"Let me know if you're interested."
845
00:47:12,037 --> 00:47:14,832
- Woo! That's so cool!
- How cool is that?
846
00:47:14,915 --> 00:47:17,584
At that point
I started enjoying my life again.
847
00:47:18,210 --> 00:47:20,170
It just brought an... an excitement
to my life
848
00:47:20,254 --> 00:47:23,674
that I... that I may have been seeking
signing up from Ashley Madison.
849
00:47:23,757 --> 00:47:26,718
- You look gorgeous.
- Yeah, I had to change my outfit.
850
00:47:26,802 --> 00:47:28,488
- Does this look okay?
- [Sam] Look at this.
851
00:47:28,512 --> 00:47:32,599
Love the dress, love the shirt, the face,
love the hair, love it all. Love it.
852
00:47:33,225 --> 00:47:37,354
The infidelity desires kinda just stopped,
853
00:47:37,437 --> 00:47:41,817
and, um, during that period of time
I deleted Ashley Madison.
854
00:47:42,401 --> 00:47:43,819
[wistful music plays]
855
00:47:44,778 --> 00:47:46,947
But I was still
carrying all these secrets.
856
00:47:47,030 --> 00:47:50,659
My intentions were to keep them to myself
until my death,
857
00:47:50,742 --> 00:47:54,204
that nobody would know about them
except the people that were involved,
858
00:47:54,288 --> 00:47:56,248
and I was gonna be takin' this
to my grave.
859
00:47:57,040 --> 00:47:59,418
- [Nia] You got off-key there at the end.
- Did I really?
860
00:47:59,501 --> 00:48:02,588
{\an8}- Yeah. I would do the same.
- I thought I was on key the whole time.
861
00:48:02,671 --> 00:48:05,132
[laughs] I can't tell if he's serious.
862
00:48:05,841 --> 00:48:08,886
[Sam] I just knew inside,
Nia would never be able to handle it.
863
00:48:09,386 --> 00:48:13,015
Like it would be impossible
for her to accept what I've done.
864
00:48:17,227 --> 00:48:19,229
[dramatic music plays]
865
00:48:31,700 --> 00:48:34,119
[Evan] I just remember
coming into the office.
866
00:48:34,745 --> 00:48:40,334
And normally people are kind of
mulling around, drinking coffee,
867
00:48:40,417 --> 00:48:41,793
lotta chitchat.
868
00:48:43,337 --> 00:48:45,714
When I got into work that day,
869
00:48:45,797 --> 00:48:49,259
it was a strange, weary,
uncomfortable silence.
870
00:48:49,801 --> 00:48:51,011
Like, silence.
871
00:48:51,720 --> 00:48:55,223
Somebody must've just got their ass
chewed off or something, I thought.
872
00:48:59,436 --> 00:49:00,854
Flipped on my computer,
873
00:49:01,521 --> 00:49:04,441
and the image came up
and music started to play.
874
00:49:04,524 --> 00:49:06,735
[hard rock music playing on computer]
875
00:49:06,818 --> 00:49:10,530
It was really in-your-face rock and roll.
876
00:49:10,614 --> 00:49:12,491
Like, what the fuck is this?
877
00:49:13,241 --> 00:49:18,163
I went in to... to talk to Noel,
and Noel was in there with our COO
878
00:49:18,789 --> 00:49:20,958
and a couple of the tech team.
879
00:49:21,041 --> 00:49:23,919
I knock and I, you know,
go to slide the barn door.
880
00:49:24,002 --> 00:49:25,963
And I'm like, "Hey, I'm having an issue."
881
00:49:26,046 --> 00:49:28,090
They're like...
[angrily] "We know! We know!"
882
00:49:28,173 --> 00:49:29,633
Okay. What?
883
00:49:29,716 --> 00:49:31,236
[angrily] "Don't touch your computer."
884
00:49:31,301 --> 00:49:32,511
Okay.
885
00:49:32,594 --> 00:49:35,138
I thought, well,
"I guess maybe our site's down."
886
00:49:35,222 --> 00:49:37,474
So we're not making any money, right?
887
00:49:39,851 --> 00:49:42,813
But then once everything set in,
I'm like, "Oooh."
888
00:49:43,647 --> 00:49:44,647
We got hacked.
889
00:49:45,107 --> 00:49:46,733
[intense music plays]
890
00:49:46,817 --> 00:49:50,028
"Ashley Madison must
shut down immediately."
891
00:49:50,612 --> 00:49:53,448
"We have taken over all systems
in your entire office."
892
00:49:53,532 --> 00:49:55,951
"We will release all customer records,
893
00:49:56,034 --> 00:49:59,204
with all customers'
secret sexual fantasies..."
894
00:50:03,125 --> 00:50:04,751
It was blackmail.
895
00:50:05,544 --> 00:50:08,046
If you don't shut down your business,
896
00:50:08,130 --> 00:50:10,507
we're going to make public
897
00:50:11,091 --> 00:50:12,968
everybody in your databases.
898
00:50:15,053 --> 00:50:17,764
[Cathy] We were shocked and terrified.
899
00:50:17,848 --> 00:50:22,269
I mean, we're there trying to protect
their discretion, their identities,
900
00:50:22,352 --> 00:50:25,689
and this would ruin
a lot of people's lives.
901
00:50:25,772 --> 00:50:28,692
We immediately switched to crisis mode.
902
00:50:28,775 --> 00:50:33,363
But I just never expected
everything to get as bad as it did.
903
00:50:34,948 --> 00:50:38,702
{\an8}Ashley Madison has become the target
of a massive cyberattack.
904
00:50:38,785 --> 00:50:43,498
The Impact Team is threatening
to leak 37 million customers
905
00:50:43,582 --> 00:50:46,293
if the website does not shut itself down.
906
00:50:46,376 --> 00:50:49,838
We're not gonna shut down our business.
Like, who the fuck are you?
907
00:50:49,921 --> 00:50:53,967
We had 30 days
to figure out who hacked us.
908
00:50:54,051 --> 00:50:56,636
Otherwise, our business could be finished.
909
00:50:56,720 --> 00:50:59,097
Millions of marriages could blow up.
910
00:51:00,057 --> 00:51:01,558
People disgraced.
911
00:51:03,268 --> 00:51:06,688
{\an8}Tens of millions of unfaithful customers
could be exposed.
912
00:51:06,772 --> 00:51:08,982
{\an8}These customers have a lot to hide.
913
00:51:09,066 --> 00:51:10,776
The pressure was enormous.
914
00:51:10,859 --> 00:51:14,780
I realized, okay, the...
this is... this is... this is fucking bad.
915
00:51:18,617 --> 00:51:20,619
[rhythmic music plays]
79249
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