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Hey, guys, as you may have seen,
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my name has been associated
with an Ashley Madison account.
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This was brought to my wife's attention.
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She has forgiven me
for this, uh, mistake that I made.
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I never had an affair with anybody,
ever, while I've been married with Nia.
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Um...
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Gosh.
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So dumb, man.
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Was that true,
what you said in the video?
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No, what I said in the video was mostly...
Pretty much all lies.
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It was just like, "Protect yourself, man."
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This is what the atonement's all about,
forgiveness and second chances.
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And I just wanna add too, guys,
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I have forgiven Sam,
and I stand behind him.
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This is in our past.
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It's unfortunate
that it's being dug up right now,
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but our marriage is worth fighting for,
and it always will be.
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{an8}Ah, I'm... I'm just like a little shocked
after watching it, to be honest.
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I'm like, "Whoa."
Took me back for a minute.
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I look at me in that video,
and I see a naive, hopeful...
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um...
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kind of blinded girl.
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{an8}It's really strange, like, knowing
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{an8}that hours later
I'm gonna think totally opposite.
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{an8}Watch out, cheaters, or anybody
who used the website Ashley Madison.
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{an8}Hackers released thousands
of e-mail addresses
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{an8}and very private information
on the dark web for everybody to see.
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{an8}This is a horrendous
and horrific invasion of privacy,
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{an8}and it's very dangerous.
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This was a difficult time
to navigate.
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{an8}We had the exec team, who were so swamped
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that they didn't really have time
to answer our questions.
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We still didn't know
who was responsible.
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The theories were all over the place.
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Maybe it was a competitor.
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Maybe it was a... a jilted wife.
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Cheating husband.
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A disgruntled employee.
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{an8}To be honest,
I also thought it could be an anti-Semite
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{an8}because of some of the threats
Noel had received.
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The Impact Team,
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they sound like people who've been
judging people for a long time,
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and in this country and in most countries,
they tend to be fundamentalists.
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Theories are as wild as they come.
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The media interest was crazy
around the world.
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We've all heard
of that naughty website Ashley Madison.
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- Ashley Madison.
- Ashley Madison.
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AshleyMadison.com.
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{an8}The dating website that caters to people
looking for extramarital affairs.
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{an8}Press talking
about Ashley Madison,
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{an8}that was a lot of publicity
for the company.
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My thinking was,
maybe this was a publicity stunt.
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{an8}Okay, is the company responsible for this?
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And even Noel was, for me, a suspect.
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{an8}Noel, he just seemed
like he might have had
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many secrets.
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When we were in the middle
of all this frenzy,
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Noel stopped showing up to the office.
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00:04:05,370 --> 00:04:07,247
It felt unnerving
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00:04:07,330 --> 00:04:11,459
that the very head of the company
is not around
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to sort of steer the ship
through this crisis.
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People were freaking out.
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At that point,
I thought it couldn't get any worse.
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And then the shit really hit the fan.
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{an8}Now the Ashley Madison hack,
well, getting worse.
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{an8}Hackers releasing yet another data dump,
this one larger than the last.
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Hackers releasing
a second mountain of data
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just days after posting
tens of millions of e-mail addresses.
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The Impact Team struck again,
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and they dumped
an even larger cache of files.
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{an8}Close to 20 gigabytes of data.
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{an8}Intellectual property, trade secrets.
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{an8}Internal documents, files,
spreadsheets, floor plans.
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{an8}Everything a company
does not want about itself
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{an8}broadcast for anybody
on the Internet to download.
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The second wave appears
to include a massive amount of e-mails
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from CEO Noel Biderman.
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Noel's entire personal
and work e-mail inboxes
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for years going back were dumped online.
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As a journalist, my first thought is,
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{an8}"Let me get my hands on them.
I wanna look through them."
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It was his whole e-mail account.
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I think he knew at that point
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how dangerous it would be
if they were released.
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{an8}This is, ya know, some real serious
personal information.
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This has the potential
to be one of the messiest
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and most legally troublesome
data dumps in history.
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We're being greeted by fans
right away, guys.
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{an8}After we posted the forgiven video,
it was the next day,
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{an8}we woke up and pretended
like nothing ever happened.
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This is Vlogger Fair, guys.
This is what it looks like.
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00:06:05,448 --> 00:06:07,992
{an8}So we went to Vlogger Fair
on the second day,
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{an8}and a lot of the embarrassment
had washed away from me.
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He's been so sweet to me
the last few days.
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It felt like there was an understanding
that a man could be curious, you know?
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Yeah, you did somethin' dumb,
and you're gonna say sorry.
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I kinda had this feeling inside like,
"It is all going to be okay."
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I was really sure
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that he really didn't cheat on me
or have an affair.
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- Yeah.
- Oh my gosh, I'm so excited.
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We left Vlogger Fair.
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I remember our family text-message thread
was kinda goin' off.
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I wasn't keeping up with it very well.
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But I did notice a text
from one of the brothers saying,
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"Sammy, you have to be fully honest."
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And my wife is like,
"What is he talking about?"
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I'm like, "He's just tryin' to start crap.
Just ignore it."
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"No idea what he's talking about."
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I was thinking.
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I was sittin' next to this woman
that I loved so much,
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and I was still having to lie to her.
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I was keeping a lot of secrets from Nia.
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The secrets I were keeping from her
went a lot deeper than Ashley Madison,
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and a lot further back.
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My intention was to go to my grave
with this and not tell her.
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Again, she asked me,
"What is your brother talkin' about?"
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I remember that really frustrating me.
I was just like, "Come on!"
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I was in a panic.
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Everything was toppling on top of me.
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I said, "I'm gonna pull over
for a minute."
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Sam got out of the car.
I didn't know what was going on.
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I called my pastor,
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who's also a good friend of mine.
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{an8}I answer, and then Sam is letting me know
that something terrible has happened.
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00:08:07,153 --> 00:08:09,572
Hearing his shame and embarrassment,
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he knows that his life
is about to explode.
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I'm starting to realize a little bit
that I gotta tell Nia something else,
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and I desperately don't want to,
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00:08:20,708 --> 00:08:23,586
and I want to hear my pastor
tell me that I don't have to
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00:08:23,669 --> 00:08:25,671
and that we can keep it between us.
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I said, "This is what living in dishonesty
has brought you."
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Now you need to live in truth.
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I was like, "Oh man."
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That was the, uh, the tipping point.
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I knew that in order to stop lying
I had to confess the truth of the past.
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Eventually Sam got back in the car.
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And he was like,
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"I have a lot more to tell you."
139
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"And it's not good."
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00:09:04,710 --> 00:09:07,421
Ashley Madison
is scrambling to deal with
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the release of more confidential material.
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The hackers also releasing
the contents of Biderman's own e-mails.
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I got really excited when I heard
they were gonna expose his e-mails.
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00:09:18,975 --> 00:09:22,520
Oh my gosh, I could not wait to see
the stuff that they were gonna release.
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{an8}I used to be a former adult entertainer.
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Oh my.
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00:09:29,610 --> 00:09:33,030
My pistachio for the world to see.
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- Pistachio?
- Pistachio.
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You're welcome.
You won't be able to forget it.
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00:09:40,329 --> 00:09:45,334
{an8}Here comes Michelle McGee, a tattoo model
who has sold a story to In Touch magazine.
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00:09:45,418 --> 00:09:49,088
{an8}People generally know me from the scandal
with Jesse James and Sandra Bullock.
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00:09:49,171 --> 00:09:51,632
{an8}Five weeks of nonstop sex...
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{an8}I had an affair
with Jesse James.
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{an8}It was all over the media.
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Ashley Madison reached out.
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They thought we could do
some cross-promotional work.
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{an8}They were gonna put me out there
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{an8}as, ya know, the mistress, the villain,
the cheater that breaks up marriages.
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00:10:11,902 --> 00:10:14,655
The first time I met Noel,
he came in with his family,
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00:10:15,615 --> 00:10:19,076
and he had the impression
of being very clean-cut,
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00:10:20,119 --> 00:10:21,871
very straight, very conservative.
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00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:27,460
But when the family left,
the real Noel kinda came out.
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00:10:29,211 --> 00:10:31,088
I don't really think he's a good person.
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I think Noel has many faces,
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and he knew what was gonna be released
in his e-mails,
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what he was trying to hide from people.
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00:10:42,224 --> 00:10:44,977
He must have been shitting himself.
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00:10:45,061 --> 00:10:47,938
Thinking, "If they start digging,
they'll find the real Noel."
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00:10:50,232 --> 00:10:53,361
When I downloaded the e-mails
and was about to look through them,
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it was exciting.
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Sort of this treasure trove
of information.
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00:10:57,823 --> 00:10:59,075
But it also felt...
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It felt a little bit wrong.
174
00:11:01,744 --> 00:11:04,038
There is really personal stuff
in those e-mails
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00:11:04,121 --> 00:11:06,165
about Noel and his life and his family.
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00:11:10,419 --> 00:11:11,419
You don't cheat?
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00:11:11,462 --> 00:11:14,382
{an8}No. Ironically, one of the major benefits
of running this business is
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{an8}if anyone should know what it takes to be
in a successful relationship, it's me.
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{an8}It's about communication.
I talk about this topic 24/7.
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00:11:22,014 --> 00:11:26,435
{an8}My wife and I are honest with one another
about what we need in our relationship.
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00:11:26,519 --> 00:11:29,689
Noel would put himself out there
as a married man
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who claims to have never been cheating
on his wife.
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00:11:32,149 --> 00:11:36,112
{an8}The point is that it's a business,
and it's really separate from our life.
184
00:11:36,195 --> 00:11:37,988
{an8}That's not the way you live your life?
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00:11:38,072 --> 00:11:39,073
{an8}Not at all.
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00:11:40,366 --> 00:11:43,536
{an8}Noel, the king of infidelity,
who claims to not cheat on his wife,
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00:11:43,619 --> 00:11:45,663
{an8}absolute catnip for producers,
188
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{an8}and media just ate it up.
189
00:11:48,999 --> 00:11:51,085
{an8}- Are you married?
- I am happily married.
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00:11:51,168 --> 00:11:55,089
{an8}I guess people find it ironic
that I am in a monogamous marriage.
191
00:11:58,759 --> 00:12:03,973
But evidence came out in
the e-mails fairly quickly that actually
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00:12:04,473 --> 00:12:07,935
Noel had been having affairs
with multiple women
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00:12:08,018 --> 00:12:09,729
um, over a period of years.
194
00:12:17,111 --> 00:12:19,447
{an8}It was a lot. A lot, lot.
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00:12:20,948 --> 00:12:23,617
I think a lot of people
felt it was ironic.
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The king of infidelity is cheating.
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00:12:26,704 --> 00:12:29,749
Not... not a shock, but it went further.
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00:12:30,708 --> 00:12:32,168
From Noel.
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00:12:38,591 --> 00:12:41,635
It goes to this page, Victoria's Escort.
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That's nice.
201
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He was frequently contacting
escort agencies and this and that.
202
00:12:56,442 --> 00:12:57,359
From Emma S.
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"Tell me what you're looking for
in a sugar baby."
204
00:12:59,820 --> 00:13:01,697
{an8}E-mail chain with Santiago Escorts.
205
00:13:01,781 --> 00:13:02,865
{an8}Noel...
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00:13:09,246 --> 00:13:10,456
It's upsetting to read.
207
00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:17,171
Uh, it's upsetting to imagine his wife
finding out about that in the media.
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00:13:17,671 --> 00:13:20,966
{an8}- What if your husband cheated on you?
- I'd be devastated.
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00:13:21,050 --> 00:13:23,803
{an8}Truth be told, I would be devastated.
210
00:13:26,138 --> 00:13:31,477
Noel had convinced her
to go on billboards around North America.
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00:13:32,728 --> 00:13:34,188
Taking her on The View,
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00:13:34,271 --> 00:13:37,775
saying, "Well, we have a great marriage,
and we don't cheat."
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00:13:38,359 --> 00:13:40,694
And, uh, and it was all false.
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00:13:41,904 --> 00:13:44,323
And I just felt devastated for her
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and... his kids.
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00:14:00,714 --> 00:14:05,219
With this second dump,
the hackers post this message saying,
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"Noel, you can admit this is real now."
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00:14:09,348 --> 00:14:11,892
Taunting and intimidating him.
219
00:14:12,726 --> 00:14:13,894
Seeing that message
220
00:14:14,937 --> 00:14:19,859
showed me just how intimately linked
these hackers somehow were to this target.
221
00:14:19,942 --> 00:14:23,028
They're not just targeting the company,
they're targeting the CEO.
222
00:14:24,947 --> 00:14:29,368
Noel was, for me, a suspect
until they released his e-mails.
223
00:14:29,952 --> 00:14:34,999
Because there was no point for him
to release his own personal e-mails.
224
00:14:35,082 --> 00:14:37,543
So that was the end of that.
225
00:14:39,336 --> 00:14:42,715
They actually had
a personal vendetta against Noel.
226
00:14:42,798 --> 00:14:45,342
They knew
that it would fuck Noel up big-time.
227
00:14:45,426 --> 00:14:48,596
And they had a hate on for him,
and they wanted him to suffer,
228
00:14:48,679 --> 00:14:49,763
and he did suffer.
229
00:15:06,739 --> 00:15:08,324
I'm driving in the car.
230
00:15:09,325 --> 00:15:10,826
You know, Nia beside me.
231
00:15:11,327 --> 00:15:12,995
I don't wanna look at Nia.
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00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:19,168
I gotta tell Nia more than what she knows,
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00:15:19,251 --> 00:15:22,880
and I was trying so hard
to find the strength.
234
00:15:24,673 --> 00:15:27,635
He was kind of nervous.
I could see this about him.
235
00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:33,557
My vision was really blurry,
tryin' to s... see the road.
236
00:15:36,185 --> 00:15:38,103
It just started coming out, man,
237
00:15:38,187 --> 00:15:41,440
all the... all the betrayals
from the very beginning.
238
00:15:43,943 --> 00:15:49,031
Massage parlors, strip clubs,
those were easy access to that...
239
00:15:49,865 --> 00:15:52,242
To that pleasure that I wanted more of.
240
00:15:52,785 --> 00:15:57,581
And I thought having that extra sex
outside of marriage would be exciting.
241
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:01,710
There was just this shock.
242
00:16:02,252 --> 00:16:06,423
He just proceeded for the next,
I mean, few hours
243
00:16:06,507 --> 00:16:07,883
to tell me
244
00:16:08,842 --> 00:16:15,808
years of betrayals
that he had acted out in our marriage.
245
00:16:17,059 --> 00:16:19,979
It was... it was like hell.
246
00:16:21,772 --> 00:16:26,026
I was flirting with various people
that were kind of acquaintances to us.
247
00:16:26,110 --> 00:16:29,780
Two emotional relationships that I had.
248
00:16:29,863 --> 00:16:33,200
I was cheating on my wife
with these people.
249
00:16:33,826 --> 00:16:37,454
The emotional betrayals,
those were really hard on me
250
00:16:37,538 --> 00:16:39,832
because love is so important to me.
251
00:16:40,749 --> 00:16:44,837
I did come on to a couple of her friends
who didn't reciprocate.
252
00:16:45,796 --> 00:16:48,382
He had pursued somebody
that was special to me,
253
00:16:48,465 --> 00:16:51,385
and she just kind of
cut herself out of my life.
254
00:16:52,886 --> 00:16:56,348
I lost this very close friend
because of you.
255
00:16:56,432 --> 00:16:58,726
Um, it was a lot to face in a moment.
256
00:17:01,729 --> 00:17:03,647
I started reeling inside.
257
00:17:05,149 --> 00:17:06,066
Samuel!
258
00:17:06,150 --> 00:17:09,570
I felt like
literally my world was, like, crumbling.
259
00:17:10,696 --> 00:17:12,281
She's pregnant.
260
00:17:12,364 --> 00:17:16,952
Every single aspect of my life
up into this point felt like a lie.
261
00:17:17,036 --> 00:17:19,288
- Thank you, sweetie. I love you.
- I know.
262
00:17:20,414 --> 00:17:22,916
Everything that we have dreamed about.
263
00:17:24,626 --> 00:17:26,545
All of these very special...
264
00:17:27,504 --> 00:17:29,131
Our wedding day.
265
00:17:30,549 --> 00:17:33,719
The day we met.
These moments that felt like...
266
00:17:33,802 --> 00:17:35,262
- Love you.
- I love you too.
267
00:17:35,345 --> 00:17:37,264
...time stood still for us.
268
00:17:39,391 --> 00:17:41,143
Suddenly it was just
269
00:17:42,394 --> 00:17:43,394
over.
270
00:17:52,446 --> 00:17:56,533
After the Impact Team
released the internal e-mails
271
00:17:57,326 --> 00:17:58,952
from Noel and the company,
272
00:17:59,787 --> 00:18:04,249
then at that point
our internal investigation stopped.
273
00:18:05,918 --> 00:18:08,337
So from the company's perspective,
274
00:18:09,046 --> 00:18:11,507
our services was not required anymore.
275
00:18:12,925 --> 00:18:15,844
I was quite disappointed
that we didn't really get anywhere
276
00:18:15,928 --> 00:18:18,472
with nailing down a potential suspect.
277
00:18:19,348 --> 00:18:22,768
So we have a limited set of options
to work with there.
278
00:18:22,851 --> 00:18:24,269
So we need the police.
279
00:18:32,027 --> 00:18:34,738
The cyber team from Europe,
280
00:18:35,739 --> 00:18:39,618
{an8}their focus was the damage control
more than anything.
281
00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:42,704
{an8}The police investigation
was a criminal investigation
282
00:18:42,788 --> 00:18:45,374
because of the extortion that came along.
283
00:18:45,457 --> 00:18:48,127
And as a result
of the data bein' released,
284
00:18:48,210 --> 00:18:50,129
people were takin' their lives.
285
00:18:52,172 --> 00:18:53,632
So the Toronto Police Service
286
00:18:53,715 --> 00:18:56,260
took the decision
to have a press conference.
287
00:18:57,427 --> 00:19:00,472
I am well aware
that the Impact Team hackers
288
00:19:00,556 --> 00:19:03,725
will be takin' an interest
in this media conference.
289
00:19:03,809 --> 00:19:06,979
Therefore, I'm going to direct
these comments to them.
290
00:19:07,062 --> 00:19:08,105
Team Impact,
291
00:19:08,772 --> 00:19:10,899
I want to make it very clear to you.
292
00:19:10,983 --> 00:19:15,070
Your actions are illegal
and we will not be tolerated.
293
00:19:15,612 --> 00:19:16,947
This is your wake-up call.
294
00:19:17,030 --> 00:19:18,407
Got a phone call that morning
295
00:19:20,284 --> 00:19:21,493
from Ashley Madison.
296
00:19:21,577 --> 00:19:25,372
They offered a half a million dollars
for a re... a reward.
297
00:19:27,833 --> 00:19:33,672
Today, I can confirm that Avid Life Media
is offering a $500,000 reward
298
00:19:34,214 --> 00:19:35,924
to anyone providing information
299
00:19:36,008 --> 00:19:41,138
that leads the identification, arrest,
and prosecution of the person or persons
300
00:19:41,221 --> 00:19:44,850
responsible for the leak
of the Ashley Madison database.
301
00:19:44,933 --> 00:19:48,478
When you look at most police rewards
or rewards that come out,
302
00:19:48,562 --> 00:19:51,523
ya know, they're like 25,000, 50,000.
303
00:19:51,607 --> 00:19:54,443
But when you drop
half a million dollars on the table,
304
00:19:55,110 --> 00:19:56,528
that speaks volumes.
305
00:19:56,612 --> 00:19:58,405
Money always talks.
306
00:20:04,953 --> 00:20:07,789
Nothing was known
about the Impact Team.
307
00:20:09,041 --> 00:20:12,669
I specialize in speaking
to cybercriminals and hackers,
308
00:20:12,753 --> 00:20:15,547
and I've never heard of these guys before.
309
00:20:15,631 --> 00:20:17,424
I don't think any journalists have.
310
00:20:18,133 --> 00:20:21,094
I was determined
to try to get ahold of them.
311
00:20:21,178 --> 00:20:24,139
People's lives were literally at risk now.
312
00:20:24,223 --> 00:20:30,145
I wanted to pull back the mask
to understand why they're doing this.
313
00:20:34,858 --> 00:20:37,361
There are few ways
to get a hacker to speak to you.
314
00:20:38,153 --> 00:20:40,322
You don't just send them a normal e-mail.
315
00:20:41,448 --> 00:20:46,495
You don't ask them for a phone number
to call them on a normal cell phone.
316
00:20:48,121 --> 00:20:49,121
They won't do that.
317
00:20:49,164 --> 00:20:52,876
These are people who are wanted by,
sometimes, federal law enforcement
318
00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:54,795
from multiple different countries.
319
00:20:57,631 --> 00:20:59,132
I'm on the dark web,
320
00:20:59,216 --> 00:21:03,929
and I'd come across somebody
who was speaking in quite specific detail
321
00:21:04,012 --> 00:21:06,515
about the hack and about the Impact Team.
322
00:21:06,598 --> 00:21:09,142
{an8}So I reach out to them.
323
00:21:12,354 --> 00:21:16,316
Sure enough, they agree
to pass over a message to the Impact Team.
324
00:21:17,901 --> 00:21:20,904
There was every chance they were
just gonna tell me to fuck off.
325
00:21:22,030 --> 00:21:24,992
There was such a firestorm
around this hack.
326
00:21:25,075 --> 00:21:28,245
Yet nobody had spoken to the Impact Team.
327
00:21:28,912 --> 00:21:32,624
If I could get them to talk to me,
it would be huge.
328
00:21:40,090 --> 00:21:42,384
I get an e-mail.
329
00:21:42,467 --> 00:21:44,344
It looks like it's from the Impact Team.
330
00:21:45,429 --> 00:21:48,890
I can't quite believe that this is them.
331
00:22:16,293 --> 00:22:20,005
I think it was clear from the answers
that they're sticking to their guns.
332
00:22:20,088 --> 00:22:22,799
"The site is misleading users,
we're trying to expose that."
333
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:36,855
{an8}So I started going through
the second data dump,
334
00:22:37,647 --> 00:22:39,733
looking at Noel's e-mails,
335
00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:41,360
corporate records.
336
00:22:41,860 --> 00:22:43,278
I wanted to find out
337
00:22:43,362 --> 00:22:47,824
if the Impact Team's claims about fraud
was actually true or not.
338
00:22:49,242 --> 00:22:52,913
It became clear
security seemed like an afterthought.
339
00:22:53,497 --> 00:22:56,083
Discussions that had
a lot more effort put into them
340
00:22:56,166 --> 00:22:58,710
were more about branding, about PR,
341
00:22:58,794 --> 00:23:00,045
about spin.
342
00:23:01,630 --> 00:23:05,717
{an8}We had all kinds of medals
on our website
343
00:23:05,801 --> 00:23:10,222
{an8}which gave the impression
that, like, we were rock-solid, airtight.
344
00:23:10,305 --> 00:23:12,724
{an8}There is a little
gold medallion that said
345
00:23:12,808 --> 00:23:13,892
{an8}"trusted security award."
346
00:23:15,852 --> 00:23:17,854
Turned out to have been totally made up.
347
00:23:17,938 --> 00:23:23,485
Somebody at the site must have made it
using Photoshop or something like that.
348
00:23:24,778 --> 00:23:27,739
{an8}The medals, that's embarrassing.
349
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:29,240
It's, uh...
350
00:23:30,075 --> 00:23:31,075
Yeah.
351
00:23:31,827 --> 00:23:33,912
It's complete misrepresentation.
352
00:23:35,622 --> 00:23:40,043
It just shows
how sloppy Ashley Madison was.
353
00:23:41,211 --> 00:23:42,371
This hacking group says
354
00:23:42,421 --> 00:23:45,257
those customers who paid the fee
to have their information deleted
355
00:23:45,340 --> 00:23:46,425
were lied to,
356
00:23:46,508 --> 00:23:49,094
and the company
had secretly retained records,
357
00:23:49,177 --> 00:23:51,012
including their credit-card information.
358
00:23:51,596 --> 00:23:54,850
Ashley Madison advertised
this extra paid-for feature
359
00:23:54,933 --> 00:23:57,394
where if you gave the company more money,
360
00:23:57,477 --> 00:23:59,604
they promised
to completely wipe your account.
361
00:23:59,688 --> 00:24:02,357
There would be no evidence
you ever used Ashley Madison.
362
00:24:03,733 --> 00:24:07,154
We would charge 20 bucks
to customers
363
00:24:07,237 --> 00:24:13,869
to permanently delete any record of them
ever being members of Ashley Madison.
364
00:24:17,164 --> 00:24:20,500
I thought the paid delete,
in the beginning, was a great idea.
365
00:24:20,584 --> 00:24:23,170
Well, that brought in a lot of money.
366
00:24:23,253 --> 00:24:26,548
Like a couple million dollars
in a very short period of time.
367
00:24:27,132 --> 00:24:31,261
What I didn't know was that
we were charging, but we weren't doing it.
368
00:24:31,344 --> 00:24:34,181
There was no paid delete.
Nothing was getting deleted.
369
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:40,854
Full delete not working
as advertised.
370
00:24:40,937 --> 00:24:43,607
Yes, malicious and sketchy.
371
00:24:44,316 --> 00:24:46,860
Do I wish I had asked
more questions?
372
00:24:46,943 --> 00:24:47,944
Sure.
373
00:24:48,028 --> 00:24:51,281
But it wouldn't even
cross my mind to think,
374
00:24:51,364 --> 00:24:53,450
"Oh, are you actually deleting it?"
375
00:24:57,245 --> 00:25:00,957
If you promise users
that you delete their information,
376
00:25:01,041 --> 00:25:02,459
you should absolutely do that.
377
00:25:02,542 --> 00:25:06,463
If you charge more money
to then delete that information as well,
378
00:25:06,546 --> 00:25:09,424
obviously you should be doing that
because it's a paid service.
379
00:25:09,925 --> 00:25:15,013
Ashley Madison were ripping off customers,
and so I just kept digging.
380
00:25:16,556 --> 00:25:19,935
And I started to realize
a lot more was gonna come out.
381
00:25:28,360 --> 00:25:30,480
After Ashley Madison,
my life just went on.
382
00:25:30,529 --> 00:25:33,490
I was just a stripper
working in the nightclubs and stuff.
383
00:25:39,538 --> 00:25:41,873
One night I was working at the strip club,
384
00:25:42,457 --> 00:25:46,545
and this guy just pops in with flowers,
and he comes up to talk to me.
385
00:25:47,754 --> 00:25:50,048
He was looking at me like he knew me,
386
00:25:50,131 --> 00:25:54,594
like I'm supposed to know him,
and I didn't know who he was.
387
00:25:56,555 --> 00:25:58,181
I just thought this guy was a fan,
388
00:25:58,265 --> 00:26:01,268
and he figured out where I worked,
and he came in there to meet me.
389
00:26:05,730 --> 00:26:09,317
So the second time it happened,
it was, like, maybe a few weeks later.
390
00:26:10,569 --> 00:26:12,988
Okay, this is the second guy
that's come up to me.
391
00:26:14,322 --> 00:26:16,700
And he was like he was my boyfriend,
392
00:26:16,783 --> 00:26:19,244
like he was just popping in at work
to see me.
393
00:26:20,704 --> 00:26:22,372
Like, what is going on?
394
00:26:22,455 --> 00:26:23,582
Then I asked the guy,
395
00:26:23,665 --> 00:26:26,751
I'm like, "Hey, can you remind me
how I know you?"
396
00:26:26,835 --> 00:26:28,670
"Do I know you from the club? How?"
397
00:26:28,753 --> 00:26:32,507
He's like, "Well, we talk on the website."
"What are you talking about?"
398
00:26:32,591 --> 00:26:34,092
He's like, "Ashley Madison."
399
00:26:34,175 --> 00:26:37,470
I just looked at him,
I'm like, "I'm not on the website."
400
00:26:37,554 --> 00:26:40,515
"I... I don't talk to anybody on there
and that's not me."
401
00:26:40,599 --> 00:26:42,809
And just the look of just, like...
402
00:26:42,892 --> 00:26:45,270
It just washed over him,
like he was scammed.
403
00:26:46,855 --> 00:26:48,773
"That's really not you I'm talking to."
404
00:26:48,857 --> 00:26:51,109
I'm like, "I swear to you, it's not me."
405
00:26:51,735 --> 00:26:53,945
Then a couple weeks later
the third guy came in.
406
00:26:54,029 --> 00:26:56,448
It was just like,
"I'm not on Ashley Madison."
407
00:26:56,531 --> 00:26:59,909
"That was not me you're talking to,
I am so sorry," and it just all clicks.
408
00:27:01,661 --> 00:27:04,289
Something that was really
kind of driven in hard
409
00:27:04,372 --> 00:27:06,499
was that I created a profile
on Ashley Madison.
410
00:27:07,792 --> 00:27:09,794
Didn't think anything of it at the time.
411
00:27:09,878 --> 00:27:12,422
I put my picture on there,
it's from my e-mail address.
412
00:27:13,548 --> 00:27:16,593
These guys have not only
seen my profile on Ashley Madison,
413
00:27:16,676 --> 00:27:18,511
but actually think they're talking to me.
414
00:27:19,220 --> 00:27:22,557
There's somebody pretending they're me
on that website.
415
00:27:23,475 --> 00:27:27,604
Is it mostly men looking
to have an affair, or do women as well?
416
00:27:27,687 --> 00:27:30,106
Absolutely not.
That's why it's called Ashley Madison.
417
00:27:30,190 --> 00:27:32,984
That's why our marketing
is geared towards a lot of women,
418
00:27:33,068 --> 00:27:34,486
because you're seeing a change.
419
00:27:35,528 --> 00:27:39,824
You're seeing a changing tide.
Women are behaving more and more like men.
420
00:27:39,908 --> 00:27:42,410
{an8}The company was always saying,
421
00:27:42,494 --> 00:27:46,331
"We have so many women on our site,
our ratio of women to men is amazing."
422
00:27:46,915 --> 00:27:48,708
Infidelity's on the rise
for females,
423
00:27:48,792 --> 00:27:50,001
but they don't equal men.
424
00:27:50,085 --> 00:27:53,963
{an8}It's still about 40% female,
60% male in most regions.
425
00:27:56,633 --> 00:27:59,177
Did we question
how many women were on the site?
426
00:27:59,260 --> 00:28:02,222
I think probably
we all could've questioned a bit more
427
00:28:02,305 --> 00:28:04,974
whether some of these claims
were too good to be true.
428
00:28:13,316 --> 00:28:17,696
A lot of men may have been exposed
at the very least as wannabe cheaters
429
00:28:17,779 --> 00:28:20,240
as a result of the Ashley Madison hack.
430
00:28:20,323 --> 00:28:21,449
What about the women?
431
00:28:21,533 --> 00:28:24,035
{an8}It turns out
that Ashley Madison's members,
432
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:25,787
{an8}as many people suspected,
433
00:28:25,870 --> 00:28:28,289
{an8}were not just overwhelmingly male,
434
00:28:28,373 --> 00:28:33,336
{an8}but the women in many cases
may simply have not existed.
435
00:28:33,420 --> 00:28:35,672
One of the most compelling
pieces of evidence
436
00:28:35,755 --> 00:28:37,549
that these were fake profiles
437
00:28:37,632 --> 00:28:40,552
is that they were all
coming from the same IP address,
438
00:28:40,635 --> 00:28:42,470
from the Ashley Madison office.
439
00:28:43,054 --> 00:28:46,766
Either tens of thousands of women
were coming to the Ashley Madison office
440
00:28:46,850 --> 00:28:49,060
to look for men to find affairs with,
441
00:28:49,144 --> 00:28:53,398
or somebody in the office
was creating these fake profiles.
442
00:28:56,609 --> 00:28:59,487
{an8}We knew there were
fake profiles on the site.
443
00:28:59,571 --> 00:29:01,072
It wasn't a secret to us.
444
00:29:02,991 --> 00:29:07,245
We were given profiles that were empty,
with photos.
445
00:29:07,328 --> 00:29:11,124
We just had to finish
filling out their profile content.
446
00:29:11,207 --> 00:29:15,378
We kinda had a sense of what
people were looking for and what was...
447
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:21,760
um, you know, sexually attractive to men.
448
00:29:26,431 --> 00:29:28,391
Who's out there
looking at these women?
449
00:29:28,475 --> 00:29:30,185
Men, right?
450
00:29:30,268 --> 00:29:32,771
"I wanna go to this site
that's full of all these women
451
00:29:32,854 --> 00:29:37,358
who are eagerly waiting
for a guy like me to have an affair with."
452
00:29:37,442 --> 00:29:40,487
"Let me bust out my credit card..."
"...and give you all my money."
453
00:29:41,529 --> 00:29:44,365
We are 100% committed
to an organic community.
454
00:29:44,449 --> 00:29:46,201
{an8}There is no communication, zero,
455
00:29:46,284 --> 00:29:48,745
{an8}you'll ever have on Ashley Madison
with another member,
456
00:29:48,828 --> 00:29:52,373
{an8}that isn't anything other than organic,
and by "organic," we mean true and real.
457
00:29:52,457 --> 00:29:53,833
{an8}Hundred percent legitimate.
458
00:29:53,917 --> 00:29:57,170
{an8}There's a big gap
between what Noel would say...
459
00:29:58,254 --> 00:30:02,592
...and, ya know, the things
that the site actually did in practice.
460
00:30:02,675 --> 00:30:05,178
Gizmodo's Annalee Newitz dug deeper,
461
00:30:05,261 --> 00:30:08,431
looking at who the men
were actually meeting online.
462
00:30:08,515 --> 00:30:13,937
{an8}I think most of them were probably
either talking to Ashley Madison employees
463
00:30:14,020 --> 00:30:18,107
{an8}or just interacting
with automated bots on the site
464
00:30:18,191 --> 00:30:20,109
{an8}that were sending them automatic mail.
465
00:30:25,198 --> 00:30:28,827
"I'm bored at work.
Up for some sexy chat? XO."
466
00:30:30,328 --> 00:30:34,123
The robots, the bots,
we knew they were there.
467
00:30:34,207 --> 00:30:38,545
They were there
to engage with our male profiles.
468
00:30:41,256 --> 00:30:43,341
When the second data dump
came out,
469
00:30:44,425 --> 00:30:49,097
it became clear that Ashley Madison
was using fake profiles
470
00:30:49,180 --> 00:30:52,308
to actually communicate with its users.
471
00:30:52,392 --> 00:30:56,688
When some users would message
who they thought was a human,
472
00:30:56,771 --> 00:30:59,065
they were actually speaking to bots.
473
00:30:59,566 --> 00:31:02,735
There's a difference
between bots and fake profiles.
474
00:31:02,819 --> 00:31:05,280
A bot is also a fake profile,
475
00:31:05,905 --> 00:31:08,908
but it's hooked up
to some artificial intelligence,
476
00:31:08,992 --> 00:31:12,328
and the bot would send the first e-mail.
477
00:31:12,912 --> 00:31:16,124
And I was told that is basically
478
00:31:16,207 --> 00:31:18,459
because most of the men
that joined the site
479
00:31:18,543 --> 00:31:20,837
are reluctant and shy,
480
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:25,300
but they will reply to... to a message.
481
00:31:25,383 --> 00:31:29,178
The members don't know
that this bot is... is not a real person
482
00:31:29,262 --> 00:31:33,266
or that this bot is busy sending
10,000 messages that day,
483
00:31:34,309 --> 00:31:37,520
and then, ya know, getting 10,000 replies.
484
00:31:37,604 --> 00:31:41,983
Men had to pay money
to then read these messages
485
00:31:42,066 --> 00:31:43,902
and engage with these accounts.
486
00:31:43,985 --> 00:31:49,282
I mean, that shows predatory behavior
from Ashley Madison.
487
00:31:49,365 --> 00:31:53,244
Not only are you getting people to sign up
and misleading them,
488
00:31:53,328 --> 00:31:56,247
you're then charging them
for the privilege of being lied to.
489
00:31:57,123 --> 00:32:01,794
The bot profile lines
read like a male fantasy
490
00:32:01,878 --> 00:32:04,881
of how you would want
the women on the site to talk to you.
491
00:32:05,423 --> 00:32:07,258
Women were the product,
492
00:32:07,342 --> 00:32:11,930
but mostly the fantasy
of the idea of women was the product.
493
00:32:12,013 --> 00:32:14,891
An average male user of Ashley Madison
494
00:32:14,974 --> 00:32:18,770
was talking into the void...
...to these fake bots,
495
00:32:18,853 --> 00:32:21,898
racking up hundreds of dollars worth
of credit-card bills
496
00:32:21,981 --> 00:32:23,608
and risking his marriage to do it.
497
00:32:23,691 --> 00:32:25,526
It paints a pretty sad picture.
498
00:32:38,373 --> 00:32:41,542
I think during that period of time
499
00:32:41,626 --> 00:32:45,296
after the second release
of hacked information,
500
00:32:46,130 --> 00:32:47,465
it was exhausting.
501
00:32:48,508 --> 00:32:51,594
I wanted to get into bed
and pull the sheets over my head,
502
00:32:51,678 --> 00:32:53,638
and put on The Golden Girls.
503
00:32:55,264 --> 00:32:57,058
And I remember thinking,
504
00:32:57,725 --> 00:32:59,936
"What else is... Am I gonna find out?"
505
00:33:03,856 --> 00:33:07,151
There was a general meeting
for the whole company.
506
00:33:07,235 --> 00:33:09,237
Someone from the board had come in
507
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:12,657
to let us know that
there was gonna be replacements.
508
00:33:13,616 --> 00:33:14,867
And there was.
509
00:33:18,830 --> 00:33:22,041
The board said
Noel would no longer be coming back.
510
00:33:22,959 --> 00:33:25,670
Well, I was surprised,
'cause I didn't know.
511
00:33:27,672 --> 00:33:29,882
And that was it. It was quick.
512
00:33:32,719 --> 00:33:34,971
{an8}The Impact Team got what they wanted.
513
00:33:35,054 --> 00:33:37,223
{an8}They released all the information.
514
00:33:38,016 --> 00:33:39,350
{an8}Cost millions.
515
00:33:39,434 --> 00:33:42,145
{an8}They cut off Ashley Madison at the knees.
516
00:33:42,854 --> 00:33:46,941
{an8}And then you've got
the scumbag king of infidelity,
517
00:33:47,025 --> 00:33:48,818
{an8}'cause that's what he became,
518
00:33:48,901 --> 00:33:51,529
{an8}CEO of Ashley Madison
who's completely disgraced.
519
00:33:53,656 --> 00:33:55,742
He was blamed for everything.
520
00:33:56,743 --> 00:34:00,455
I kind of felt for him
because he took the fall.
521
00:34:02,749 --> 00:34:07,420
I think that he felt that day
that he had hit rock bottom.
522
00:34:08,504 --> 00:34:12,050
Noel leaving,
this is completely catastrophic.
523
00:34:12,133 --> 00:34:16,471
At that point, we didn't know
if Ashley Madison would survive.
524
00:34:17,638 --> 00:34:20,308
Nobody else knows this business
better than him.
525
00:34:20,391 --> 00:34:22,435
Shit, that guy built this company.
526
00:34:22,518 --> 00:34:23,728
We're fucked.
527
00:34:35,823 --> 00:34:39,869
We mutually decided that Sam would stay
somewhere else for a period of time.
528
00:34:39,952 --> 00:34:41,287
We just said, "For now."
529
00:34:43,456 --> 00:34:44,874
I needed space.
530
00:34:44,957 --> 00:34:47,126
I just couldn't be
in the same room with him.
531
00:34:47,668 --> 00:34:48,668
That was hard,
532
00:34:49,128 --> 00:34:50,922
to... to leave my kids
533
00:34:51,005 --> 00:34:54,300
and to think that
that may be my new way of life.
534
00:34:56,636 --> 00:35:00,181
We had to take our daughter
to her first day of kindergarten,
535
00:35:00,264 --> 00:35:03,142
and we're both there
taking pictures separately,
536
00:35:03,226 --> 00:35:05,186
and being there and seeing
537
00:35:05,269 --> 00:35:08,564
what their lives will look like
completely without me.
538
00:35:09,232 --> 00:35:10,858
And that was really hard.
539
00:35:13,236 --> 00:35:15,530
It was all so painful to watch.
540
00:35:15,613 --> 00:35:19,450
Just seeing the destruction
of what I'd... I'd chosen to do.
541
00:35:23,454 --> 00:35:26,541
I told him he's just like every man
that I was trying to avoid.
542
00:35:26,624 --> 00:35:29,377
Like, what was the point
of trying to find a Christian man?
543
00:35:29,877 --> 00:35:34,173
Something that I've had to wrestle with
was just that I'm not enough for him.
544
00:35:34,924 --> 00:35:39,428
This relationship,
none of it has ever been enough. Like...
545
00:35:39,512 --> 00:35:43,558
And I... I worked so hard
to be what I thought he wanted.
546
00:35:46,144 --> 00:35:49,188
I wasn't gonna give up.
I was gonna do whatever it took,
547
00:35:50,064 --> 00:35:52,942
and fight tooth and nail
for this marriage.
548
00:35:54,485 --> 00:35:57,572
I expressed my remorse
549
00:35:57,655 --> 00:36:00,324
and my regret day after day.
550
00:36:01,159 --> 00:36:04,829
Every single day
confessing how much I... I love her.
551
00:36:07,248 --> 00:36:09,167
I wanted it to work so badly.
552
00:36:11,169 --> 00:36:15,464
In order to really even take
one tiny, mini baby step forward,
553
00:36:15,548 --> 00:36:18,050
it would require us to...
to really sit down
554
00:36:18,134 --> 00:36:21,888
and have some really hard,
deep conversations
555
00:36:21,971 --> 00:36:24,557
to find out what was real
and what was not real.
556
00:36:28,060 --> 00:36:30,229
But I didn't really wanna fix it.
557
00:36:30,813 --> 00:36:32,607
I did not want to reconcile.
558
00:36:35,902 --> 00:36:38,196
At that point, I felt like it was over.
559
00:36:55,421 --> 00:36:58,442
With the press conference,
I thought we were gonna get a lot of calls
560
00:36:58,466 --> 00:36:59,383
and we didn't.
561
00:36:59,467 --> 00:37:01,761
I was totally surprised.
562
00:37:03,554 --> 00:37:07,225
Half a million dollars
in someone's pocket would be very nice,
563
00:37:07,308 --> 00:37:09,101
but there was nothing, not even a bite.
564
00:37:09,185 --> 00:37:11,520
Not even a Crime Stoppers tip about it
or nothing.
565
00:37:14,065 --> 00:37:17,735
The hackers, well,
they call themselves the Impact Team.
566
00:37:19,195 --> 00:37:20,988
I personally think that, uh,
567
00:37:21,822 --> 00:37:23,574
"team" was an exaggeration.
568
00:37:24,450 --> 00:37:26,452
That was probably one person.
569
00:37:26,535 --> 00:37:31,332
Uh, and the reason being for that,
'cause when there was the $500,000 reward.
570
00:37:31,415 --> 00:37:35,253
Usually when you have a team,
somebody breaks from the team,
571
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:38,422
and the money becomes more important.
572
00:37:40,341 --> 00:37:44,762
Haven't heard anything
about Impact Team before or since.
573
00:37:44,845 --> 00:37:49,058
It's incredibly unusual
for a hacking group to materialize,
574
00:37:49,141 --> 00:37:51,602
do one job, and then disappear.
575
00:37:52,186 --> 00:37:54,563
I can't think of another case
where that happened.
576
00:37:54,647 --> 00:37:59,318
The Impact Team was just a creation
for this communication.
577
00:37:59,902 --> 00:38:03,698
I think it was never
a real team behind that.
578
00:38:03,781 --> 00:38:05,825
There were a lot of clues that
579
00:38:06,450 --> 00:38:10,079
were leading us to believe
that it was an insider.
580
00:38:11,622 --> 00:38:15,751
The Impact Team named a number
of, ya know, high-ranking executives
581
00:38:15,835 --> 00:38:18,004
in some of the communications
they put out.
582
00:38:18,087 --> 00:38:20,548
Ya know, why would they know
those people's names
583
00:38:20,631 --> 00:38:24,260
unless they had some
sort of personal or work connection?
584
00:38:25,052 --> 00:38:28,472
I don't think anybody
ever got particularly close
585
00:38:28,556 --> 00:38:30,182
to figuring out who did it.
586
00:38:32,977 --> 00:38:34,770
The investigation, you know...
587
00:38:34,854 --> 00:38:39,358
Eventually the task force was shut down
because there's no new leads.
588
00:38:39,942 --> 00:38:40,943
There was nothin'.
589
00:38:42,737 --> 00:38:45,823
No evidence or any information
590
00:38:45,906 --> 00:38:48,409
received by any law-enforcement group
591
00:38:48,909 --> 00:38:52,371
who was involved
in the Ashley Madison hack.
592
00:38:52,872 --> 00:38:56,751
Nobody has identified
anyone from the Impact Team.
593
00:38:58,919 --> 00:39:01,172
Speculating about
who might've done it
594
00:39:01,255 --> 00:39:03,132
is part of the fun of this story.
595
00:39:03,215 --> 00:39:04,717
It's a giant whodunit.
596
00:39:05,343 --> 00:39:08,512
Everyone on the planet
had a motive to take Ashley Madison down.
597
00:39:10,639 --> 00:39:11,807
{an8}As of this morning
598
00:39:11,891 --> 00:39:14,393
{an8}at least eight people
in the US are suing the site,
599
00:39:14,477 --> 00:39:16,520
{an8}saying Ashley Madison
failed to take, quote,
600
00:39:16,604 --> 00:39:19,315
{an8}"Reasonable steps
to protect the security of its users."
601
00:39:19,398 --> 00:39:23,110
{an8}They actually didn't follow through
on what their promises were,
602
00:39:23,194 --> 00:39:27,156
{an8}and I'm glad that hopefully some people
will get some justice in this case.
603
00:39:31,077 --> 00:39:32,203
After the hack,
604
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:37,375
disgruntled users of the site
did file a class-action lawsuit.
605
00:39:38,667 --> 00:39:42,630
Ashley Madison
had to pay users $11 million.
606
00:39:43,923 --> 00:39:46,467
That doesn't remove their data
from the Internet.
607
00:39:50,221 --> 00:39:53,391
People killed themselves
over this data breach.
608
00:39:54,850 --> 00:39:58,687
I absolutely think the Impact Team
is at least partly to blame
609
00:39:58,771 --> 00:40:02,441
for the suicide of anybody
who was in that dump.
610
00:40:04,693 --> 00:40:07,405
The Impact Team took a decision
to release that information,
611
00:40:07,488 --> 00:40:09,073
and they are responsible
612
00:40:09,156 --> 00:40:12,159
for all of the consequences
that come from that,
613
00:40:13,119 --> 00:40:14,578
as well as Ashley Madison.
614
00:40:17,456 --> 00:40:19,917
Everyone was saying
this company is done.
615
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,294
Why would anyone
ever sign up for the site again?
616
00:40:23,254 --> 00:40:29,885
Its reputation has been, ya know, slammed
on every country around the world.
617
00:40:30,928 --> 00:40:33,347
I did not see
how it could come back from this.
618
00:40:45,526 --> 00:40:48,654
Eventually, Nia agreed
to do marital counseling with me.
619
00:40:48,737 --> 00:40:50,948
So we sit down
with my pastor and his wife.
620
00:40:53,534 --> 00:40:58,247
I really wanted to, like, hear somebody,
like, lay into him,
621
00:40:58,330 --> 00:41:00,958
and someone to, like, be on my side.
622
00:41:02,334 --> 00:41:05,129
It was very difficult
and very emotional,
623
00:41:05,212 --> 00:41:07,882
and she was very honest
in those early, uh, meetings.
624
00:41:07,965 --> 00:41:10,885
She said, "I don't know what will happen,
if this is repairable."
625
00:41:12,845 --> 00:41:18,142
I think it was very good for him
to feel the weight of what he had done...
626
00:41:20,436 --> 00:41:24,732
and feeling the true threat
of losing everything he loved most.
627
00:41:26,317 --> 00:41:31,238
He was able to begin really dealing
with the depths that he had gone to,
628
00:41:31,322 --> 00:41:33,574
and the dark places that he had traveled.
629
00:41:36,494 --> 00:41:39,997
I started to really think
about selfish decisions I made.
630
00:41:41,207 --> 00:41:43,459
Lookin' back,
I realized it was all about me.
631
00:41:43,542 --> 00:41:45,211
I'm not thinkin' about Nia.
632
00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:48,422
That was not how I was gonna live anymore.
633
00:41:50,216 --> 00:41:54,845
I was just hoping she would see
that this wasn't just a confessional,
634
00:41:54,929 --> 00:41:56,972
that this was a... a repentance.
635
00:41:57,056 --> 00:41:59,600
It was a turnaround,
it was a complete change.
636
00:42:01,852 --> 00:42:06,148
Seeing all the responsibility
Sam took for everything he had done,
637
00:42:06,232 --> 00:42:10,402
the hours of... of counseling
and conversation that he sat through,
638
00:42:10,486 --> 00:42:12,446
no matter how mad I was
at what he had done,
639
00:42:12,530 --> 00:42:14,698
I could still see this shift
that happened in him.
640
00:42:15,658 --> 00:42:19,495
Yes, the betrayals were out,
but so was the real Sam.
641
00:42:19,578 --> 00:42:22,665
Like, "This is me and all my flaws too."
642
00:42:26,335 --> 00:42:30,631
It's heartbreaking
to love someone so much,
643
00:42:30,714 --> 00:42:34,718
to the point where, like, you don't know
if it's good for you anymore or not,
644
00:42:34,802 --> 00:42:36,845
and you have...
I had to sit down and find out.
645
00:42:54,029 --> 00:42:55,030
You look good.
646
00:42:55,114 --> 00:42:56,824
Trust me, babe, we'll get there.
647
00:42:56,907 --> 00:42:58,450
- That's good.
- Can see it.
648
00:42:58,534 --> 00:43:00,494
- That's good.
- Yeah.
649
00:43:03,747 --> 00:43:06,875
Nia, she decided
she would give me a second chance.
650
00:43:08,752 --> 00:43:11,463
Falling deeply in love is beautiful.
651
00:43:12,715 --> 00:43:18,137
But I've learned continuing
to be deeply in love takes work.
652
00:43:20,264 --> 00:43:22,641
There's a lot of things
I really do regret,
653
00:43:23,142 --> 00:43:26,103
but I don't regret, you know, the hack.
654
00:43:26,186 --> 00:43:28,939
It had to happen for where we're at today.
655
00:43:32,234 --> 00:43:35,195
What Sam did and what we walked through
has left a mark.
656
00:43:35,279 --> 00:43:38,949
It's left a permanent mark,
but I'm thankful for it.
657
00:43:39,033 --> 00:43:41,285
It's kind of like a starting point for us
658
00:43:41,368 --> 00:43:43,662
on how we'll live
the rest of our marriage.
659
00:43:58,344 --> 00:43:59,344
I think
660
00:44:00,596 --> 00:44:04,642
cheating is a natural human way
to just find excitement
661
00:44:04,725 --> 00:44:06,393
or find somethin' else
662
00:44:07,728 --> 00:44:11,649
to tolerate the life
you have given yourself
663
00:44:11,732 --> 00:44:14,068
without destroying your foundation.
664
00:44:15,778 --> 00:44:20,282
It's just a shame that the couples
can't talk to each other about it.
665
00:44:22,451 --> 00:44:24,953
I believe you should be honest
with your partner
666
00:44:25,037 --> 00:44:26,288
and obviously be upfront.
667
00:44:27,206 --> 00:44:29,625
If two people wanna have an open marriage
668
00:44:29,708 --> 00:44:32,169
and both want
to go outside of marriage for something,
669
00:44:32,252 --> 00:44:33,253
more power to 'em.
670
00:44:34,129 --> 00:44:37,132
But when one person's going
behind the other person's back,
671
00:44:37,216 --> 00:44:38,842
sneaking and going on dating apps,
672
00:44:38,926 --> 00:44:42,137
that's definitely gonna cause a problem
in the relationship.
673
00:44:43,555 --> 00:44:46,892
{an8}What we wanna do
in this culture today,
674
00:44:46,975 --> 00:44:50,813
{an8}is somebody makes one mistake
or says one thing,
675
00:44:50,896 --> 00:44:52,314
{an8}and we wanna write them off.
676
00:44:55,150 --> 00:45:00,948
The people who were poring over that list
in the Ashley Madison leak,
677
00:45:01,031 --> 00:45:02,658
the witch hunt,
678
00:45:02,741 --> 00:45:05,619
there's just a self-righteousness in that.
679
00:45:07,204 --> 00:45:11,291
But the truth is
we all have a list that we're on
680
00:45:11,375 --> 00:45:15,379
that is something that we're not proud of,
that is our secret.
681
00:45:18,799 --> 00:45:22,553
People wanna know what's going on
in everyone else's sex life.
682
00:45:22,636 --> 00:45:23,887
I think it's that simple.
683
00:45:23,971 --> 00:45:26,306
You wanna know
if your neighbor's having an affair,
684
00:45:26,390 --> 00:45:29,643
you wanna know if your favorite celebrity
is having an affair,
685
00:45:29,727 --> 00:45:33,230
or you wanna know
what politicians are doing in the bedroom.
686
00:45:34,148 --> 00:45:36,692
This whole story is so incredible.
687
00:45:38,068 --> 00:45:43,949
If somebody wrote it as a fictional novel,
you'd say it's too incredible to believe.
688
00:45:47,828 --> 00:45:49,628
How do you guys feel
about the fact
689
00:45:49,663 --> 00:45:52,082
that Ashley Madison
is actually still going?
690
00:45:52,166 --> 00:45:54,501
Oh it is still going?
I didn't realize that.
691
00:45:54,585 --> 00:45:56,712
I didn't realize
Ashley Madison was still going.
692
00:45:56,795 --> 00:45:59,673
It's an evil on a whole different level,
in my opinion.
693
00:46:07,306 --> 00:46:09,558
The hack was 2015.
694
00:46:10,100 --> 00:46:11,769
I left in 2017.
695
00:46:12,311 --> 00:46:17,608
It just became a corporate place to work.
696
00:46:17,691 --> 00:46:21,737
It was not the same and very boring.
697
00:46:26,241 --> 00:46:29,578
It doesn't surprise me
that it's still around today.
698
00:46:30,829 --> 00:46:32,623
For me, I don't judge.
699
00:46:32,706 --> 00:46:34,291
I understand that people think,
700
00:46:34,374 --> 00:46:39,421
"I only have one life to live,
and I'm happy with my wife,
701
00:46:40,422 --> 00:46:43,425
but I also wanna fuck that 23-year-old."
702
00:46:43,509 --> 00:46:44,676
I get it.
703
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:48,764
Sometimes I see some hotties
and I'd be like, "That would be fun."
704
00:46:49,348 --> 00:46:51,767
But I think your sex is just better
705
00:46:51,850 --> 00:46:54,728
if it's built on something
that means something.
706
00:46:56,104 --> 00:46:58,565
Ashley Madison taught me
707
00:46:58,649 --> 00:47:01,610
that there will always
be people who cheat.
708
00:47:02,820 --> 00:47:05,322
I always say that
as long as men have penises,
709
00:47:05,405 --> 00:47:09,076
Ashley Madison will always be in business.
60652
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