All language subtitles for Yes Minister S03E02 - The Challenge

The main news this Thursday pm
is the big government re-shuffle.

I have with me, to
discuss his new empire,

the Minister for Administrative Affairs,
the Right Honourable James Hacker.

It's been said that you are now
Mr Town Hall as well as Mr Whitehall.

Well, it's very flattering
of you to put it that way.

It wasn't me who put it that way,
it was the Daily Mirror.

I just wanted to confirm that you are
now this country's chief bureaucrat.

That's nonsense. This government
believes in reducing bureaucracy.

Figures I have here say that your
department's staff has risen by 10%.

- Certainly not.
- What figure do you have?

I believe the figure is
much more like 9.97.

Well, it has been suggested
that your department is less interested

in reducing bureaucracy
than in increasing it.

Well, yes,

but that's because we've had to take on
more staff in order to reduce staff.

- I beg your pardon?
- It's common sense.

We need more doctors
to cure more patients,

more firemen to
extinguish more fires.

How will you extinguish
local government bureaucracy?

It's a challenge I'm looking forward to.

Would you agree
there's even more

bureaucratic waste there
than in Whitehall?

- Yes, that's what makes it a challenge.
- How will you meet the challenge?

It's far too early to
give detailed proposals.

I've just come here
direct from Number 10.

From number 9.97, perhaps!

The broad strategy is
to cut ruthlessly at waste...

while leaving essential
services intact.

That's what your predecessor said.
Did he fail?

Let me finish. Because...

we must be absolutely clear and I'm
going to be quite frank with you.

The fact is that, at the end of the day,
it is the right, the duty,

of the elected government
in the House of Commons

to ensure government policy,
the policies on which we were elected

and for which we have a mandate,
the policies for which the people voted,

are the policies which,
finally, when the

national cake has
been divided up...

And may I remind you we, as a nation,
don't have unlimited wealth?

We can't pay ourselves
more than we earn.

are the policies...

I'm sorry, what was the question again?

I was just asking you whether you would
agree that your predecessor had failed.

Certainly not. On the contrary.

It's just that this
job is an enormous...

- Challenge?
- Exactly!

Incidentally, I heard your chap
on the radio yesterday, Humpy.

- Mm?
- Mm.

He sounded as if he wanted to DO things
about your new local government remit.

He kept calling it a challenge.

- Congratulations.
- Very kind.

You may soon be
even more important than Arnold!

Yes, I expect... Er,
no, no, no, no, no.

I do want to be quite
clear about this.

I'd never have given you
local government...

if I'd thought you'd let
Hacker do anything.

- He won't be able to. Nobody else has.
- That's not the point, Humpy.

We've found in the past that all local
government reforms rebound on us.

When anybody finds a way of saving money
or cutting staff in local government,

it works for Whitehall just as well.

Yes, but local government
is extravagant,

overstaffed, incompetent,
whereas we...

- Exactly so.
- I know my duty, Arnold.

If he needs something to keep him busy,
you know what to do?

Get him to look into civil defence.

Civil defence? You
mean fallout shelters?

Yes.

Governments long ago decided civil
defence was not a serious issue.

Merely a desperate one!

It's best left to those
whose incompetence can be relied upon.

Local authorities!

But the highest duty of government
is to protect its citizens.

Presumably that's why they leave it
to the borough councils!

Thank you, gentlemen.

Can I have a brief word?

It's about a proposal I worked outbefore
we were transferred to this department?

- And you are?
- I am... what?

- Yes, you are what?
- What?

- What?
- I am Dr Cartwright.

If I may put it another
way, what are you?

I'm C of E.

The Minister means, what function
do you perform in the department?

Don't you know?

Yes, I know, but the
Minister wants to know.

I'm a professional economist. Director
of Local Administration Statistics.

You ran the Local Authority Directorate
before we took over.

Dear me, no. Sir Gordon Reid
was the Permanent Secretary.

I'm just Under-Secretary rank.
I fear I shall rise no higher.

- Why not?
- Alas, I'm an expert.

- On what?
- On the whole thing.

- It's all in here.
- What's this all about?

Controlling council expenditure.

I'm proposing that all council officials
responsible for a new project

list their criteria for failure
before getting the go-ahead.

- What do you mean?
- It's a basic scientific approach.

You must establish a method of measuring
the success or failure of an experiment.

When it's completed,
you know if it's succeeded or failed.

A proposer states "This scheme
would fail if it lasts longer than this

"or costs more than that,
if it employs more staff than these

"or fails to meet pre-set standards."

Fantastic! You could
never make it work.

'Course you can.
It's all in there.

This is my top priority reading.
Why hasn't it been done before?

I can't understand.

I put it up several times and it
was always welcomed most warmly.

But there was always
something more urgent on.

Well, you've come to the
right place this time.

Thank you, Minister.

This is marvellous, isn't it, Bernard?

Isn't it, Bernard?

Oh, yes. Well, it's... er... That is,
it's... um... very well presented.

- Humphrey will be fascinated.
- He's on his way here.

- He'll give his views.
- What are you saying?

Yes, well, as I say, I think that he'll
think that it's beautifully... typed.

- Ah, Minister.
- Ah, Humphrey, come in.

- Sit down.
- Thank you, Minister.

Now, local authorities.
What are we going to do?

Minister, this new remit gives you
more influence, more Cabinet seniority.

But do not let it give you any more work
or worry. That would be foolishness.

We've got to stop this appalling waste
and extravagance.

Why?

- Why?
- Yes, why?

Well, it's my job. We're the government.
We were elected to govern.

Oh, really, Minister.

Surely you won't
tamper with the...

democratic rights of freely-elected
local representatives?

Well... no, of course not.

But local government isn't democratic.
Local democracy's a farce!

Most people don't know
who their councillor

is. They never vote
in a local election.

Those who do regard it as a popularity
poll for the government here.

Local councillors are
accountable to nobody.

They're public-spirited citizens
selflessly sacrificing their spare time.

- Ever met any?
- When there was no alternative.

They're either busybodies
on an ego trip

or in it for what they
can get out of it.

Perhaps they ought to be
in the House of Commons.

Er, I mean, to see how
a proper legislative assembly behaves.

I'm going to get a grip on them.

- I have a plan.
- You have a plan?

Yes.

I'm going to insist
that any local official

who puts up a plan
costing more than...

say... �10,000 must accompany it
with failure standards.

With what?!

With a statement saying
he will have failed

if his project does not achieve
certain... pre-set results...

or exceeds... fixed time
or staff or budget limits.

Where did you get the idea
for this dangerous nonsense?

From someone... in the department.

I have warned you
before about the danger

of speaking to people
in the department!

I implore you to stay out of the
minefield of local government.

It is a political graveyard.

Excuse me, Sir Humphrey, you cannot
have a graveyard in a minefield

because all the corpses would... powww!

You got me this job, you said.

But I didn't expect
you to do anything.

I mean, you've never
done anything before!

Humphrey, I am deaf
to your complaints.

Please, I beg you...

No, no, no, no, Humphrey.
I want specific proposals straight away.

And immediate plans for their
implementation by local government.

What's the fuss about?

I'm only proposing failure standards
for local government, not Whitehall.

Though come to think of it...

If you insist on interfering
in local government,

may I make a suggestion
that could prove a vote winner?

Humphrey, I want to
hear no more about...

Vote winner?

An area of local government
that needs urgent attention.

- What?
- Civil defence.

You mean fallout shelters?
Surely they're just a joke.

Precisely, Minister.
At the moment, they are a joke.

Local authorities are
dragging their feet,

but the highest duty
of any government

is to protect its citizens.

Some think building shelters
makes nuclear war more likely.

If you have the weapons,
you need the shelters.

Sometimes wonder why
we need the weapons.

Minister, you're
not a unilateralist?

Well... I sometimes wonder.

Then you must resign
from the government!

Ah, no, no, no, no, no, no.
I'm not THAT unilateralist.

America will protect
us from the Russians.

Who's talking
about the Russians?

- Well, the independent deterrent.
- It's to protect us against the French!

The French?

- But that's astounding!
- Why?

Well, they're our
allies, our partners.

They are NOW.

But they've been our enemies
for most of the past 900 years.

If they've got the bomb,
we must have the bomb!

If it's for the French, of course,
that's different. Makes a lot of sense.

- Yes. Can't trust the Frogs.
- You can say that again!

There is increasing public concern
about the bomb.

If I were to be seen
to be doing something

about it... I see what you mean.

Ludovic Kennedy is preparing
a BBC documentary on civil defence

likely to be critical of
the current situation.

If you were seen
to be taking decisive measures...

Right, yes.

I always handle Ludo
so frightfully well.

- Right, well, where do we start?
- Just a suggestion.

The London Borough of
Thames Marsh...

spends less on civil defence
than any other authority.

Hm. A ministerial visit, do you think?

That's Ben Stanley's
borough -

the one with the wispy moustache,
who the press all hate.

Good point, Bernard.
Get onto it straight away.

Get Bill to make sure the
press knows about this visit.

Tell them I lie
awake at night...

worrying about the defenceless
citizens of Thames Marsh.

Do you, Minister?

Well, I will now.

What makes you think you can come
swanning down here from Whitehall

and tell us how to run our borough?

I'm not swanning down from Whitehall.

I'm asking you why you've done less
than any other borough

to protect the people who elected you?

- Simple. We can't find the money.
- Why don't you try looking for it?

Oh, that's great! Stop school meals,
buy no textbooks?

- Turn OAPs out into the cold?
- I can tell you where to find it.

- You can?
- Yes.

Tell him, Dr Cartwright.

Scrap the plans for the
new exhibition centre...

with the artificial ski
slope and jacuzzi pool.

Close the Feminist Drama Centre,

the council's weekly
newspaper and magazine...

and the Welfare Rights
Research Department.

You can halve the members'
entertainments allowance,

sell the Mayor's second Daimler,

postpone the building
of the new town hall,

and cancel the 20 councillors'
tourism fact-finding mission to Jamaica.

And close the Gay Bereavement Centre.

That'll save �21 millions
on capital account...

and �750,000 a year
on revenue account.

Revenue account.

- That's just stupid!
- Why?

Well, it's depriving the disadvantaged
of indispensable services!

Jacuzzi pools?

I don't care if we
can afford a shelter.

This is a unilateralist borough.
We do not believe in nuclear war.

I don't believe in
it either, but the

provision of shelters
is government policy.

It is not Thames Marsh policy.

Thames Marsh has no
quarrel with the USSR.

It's not just the USSR
we're frightened of.

It could be the Fre...

- The who?
- The... frigging Chinese!

If the Russians do invade us,
I suppose they'll say,

"Hold on, we're not at
war with Thames Marsh.

Right, comrades, let's
annex Chelsea instead."

Excuse me, Minister.
I think you may be interested in...

Mr Stanley,

it appears that you would not be called
upon to make the supreme sacrifice.

What do you mean?

Is there a shelter
under the town hall?

Well, is there?

- We didn't build it!
- You maintain it.

- It's only a small one.
- And there is a place in it for you?

I was persuaded, with deep reluctance,
that my preservation was a necessity

in the interests of the ratepayers
of Thames Marsh.

And what provision have you made
for other essential persons?

Doctors, nurses, firemen.

People who might be
almost as important as councillors.

One of them's a chemist!

Great. Nothing like aspirin
for the nuclear holocaust.

Your chap had quite a publicity triumph
down at Thames Marsh, didn't he?

Oh, yes, tremendous.

You don't sound
appropriately happy for him.

Trouble is he thinks
he's achieved something.

Splendid.

Life is so much easier when ministers
think they've achieved something.

Stops them fretting. No tantrums.

Now he wants to introduce his next idea.

A minister with two ideas. I can't
remember when we last had one of those.

Oh, it's not his own.

He wants to introduce failure standards
on all council contracts over �10,000

and make a named official responsible.

- Humphrey!
- I know.

Cartwright's idiot scheme!
I thought Gordon had squashed it.

He's come over to us now.

Slipped the scheme to the minister
privately, under plain cover!

It'll be us next.

Once you specify in advance what
a project's supposed to achieve

and whose responsibility
it is to see that

it does, the entire
system collapses.

You're into the squalid world
of professional management.

I know. I've tried to explain to him.

I have pointed out that his new
responsibilities were for...

enjoying, not exercising.
I don't know.

We move our officials
round every 2 or 3 years...

to stop this personal
responsibility nonsense.

If this happened, we'd be posting
everybody once a fortnight.

He must be stopped.
What's his next little publicity trip?

Well, tomorrow he's living his
little triumph over again.

He's recording a TV
interview with Ludovic

Kennedy. A documentary
on civil defence.

Supposing he had a dossier on the
curious ways in which local councillors

spend their civil defence budgets.

- How would that help?
- I've got an idea.

Perhaps you ought to become a minister!

Um... just a joke, Arnold.

Stand by, studio. We're about to record.

A change for a minister
to be given a chance...

to talk about something
that's a success.

Most unusual for the BBC.
Is this a change of policy?

2... 1.

You've been claiming recently that in
your dealings with local authority,

you've been making progress
as regards civil defence.

Surely this has been more in the field
of publicity than any achievement?

No, no, no, no, Ludo.

Authorities are being made
to face up to these issues

because of the interest
we have generated.

You're agreeing. Your success
has been a publicity success.

Well, yes, but things are changing.

- Well, what about Thames Marsh?
- Ah, Thames Marsh. Good example.

As I said in the press,
they have one shelter.

A place in it is reserved for
Ben Stanley, council leader,

who refuses to build
shelters for others.

Don't you think that's hypocritical?

Surely it's reasonable
to expect that...

one of our elected
representatives should survive.

- Who is to govern otherwise?
- In the event of a nuclear holocaust -

and, of course, we all pray that
such a thing will never happen -

there are perhaps more important people
than mere politicians.

Doctors, nurses, ambulance
men, and so on.

All people who run
essential services.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not
a fact that the PM and Home Secretary

have places reserved for them
in government fallout shelters?

That is completely different.

How?

Well, there has to be someone
to... run the... you know.

Minister, you're saying
political leaders should...

give up their places for
doctors and nurses.

Have you put this idea to the PM
and the Home Secretary?

I think we ought to be
careful not to trivialise...

what is a very serious
issue, Ludovic.

I'll give you another example. I know
of a borough which sent councillors,

at the ratepayers' expensive,
to California to look at shelters.

But they couldn't do anything about it

because they'd spent the
entire civil defence budget...

for three whole
years on the trip!

- How shocking.
- Shocking.

Thank you, Minister.
By the way, how did the recording go?

Well, I got into a bit of bother
over Ben Stanley's bunker.

I said politicians weren't as important
as doctors and so on.

Did you?

Then he said "What about the PM's place
in the government shelter?"

- And what did you say?
- I got out of it.

Quite cleverly, actually.

I'm not too sure how happy
the PM will be about it.

Then I recovered with a marvellous story
about some councillors

who went to California
to look at shelters

and spent three entire years of the
civil defence budget on the jaunt!

- May I ask where that came from?
- Yes. Where did that come from?

From the Civil Defence Directorate.
They knew you were doing the interview.

Oh, well. Anyway, Minister,
I'm sure you know what you're doing.

Humphrey... you only say that
when I've made an appalling cock-up.

You do know the borough in question
contains the PM's constituency...

and that the PM's election agent was
the councillor who led the delegation?

That was just a
joke, wasn't it?

Number 10 have been
trying to keep it quiet.

- Oh, well, truth will out.
- No, no, no!

No, no, no, it mustn't out.
It might look like a personal attack.

You know what the PM's
like about loyalty.

This interview must not go out.

Well, unfortunately, I haven't the time,
I must be going.

Humphrey, I... I... I... I'm
ordering you, Humphrey.

- Alas, your orders are calling me away.
- What do you mean?

Your scheme for imposing
failure standards

on local councils
is very complex.

You asked for proposals straight away.
It's taking every moment of my time.

Much as I would like to help.

However... if implementing failure
standards were not quite so urgent...

You mean, you can stop this broadcast?

Now, Minister, we cannot censor the BBC,

but I happen to be lunching
with the BBC's Director of Policy.

- Perhaps you'd care to join us.
- But if we can't censor them...

We could persuade them
to withdraw programmes voluntarily

once they realise that transmission
is not in the public interest.

Well, it's not in MY interest...

and I represent the public, so
it's not in the public interest.

That's a novel argument.

We haven't tried that on them before.
Have we?

The BBC cannot give in
to government pressure.

- Let's leave that on one side...
- No, no!

Let's leave that on one side, shall we?
Please, Minister.

Frank, could I raise something else?

There is considerable disquiet
about the BBC's attitude...

and hostility towards
the government.

- But that's absurd.
- Is it?

They've been documenting instances
of bias in BBC current affairs.

Favourable news stories not reported.

Oh, yes. Excessive publicity for other
countries' cases against Britain.

Especially our Common Market enemies...

um... partners.

Oh, yes.

Jokes against the Prime Minister.

Unnecessary publicity
for anti-government demonstrations.

And ministers' programme suggestions
not accepted.

I had no room in my
case for the others.

I'm sure we have
answers to all these.

The BBC's always got answers.
Silly ones.

Yes, of course. I thought it fair to
warn you that questions are being asked.

- What sort of questions?
- Well, for example,

were Parliament to be televised, whether
it shouldn't be entrusted to ITV.

- You can't be serious?
- And whether the BBC administration

is making the cuts in jobs and premises
that we've endured in government.

Should a select committee scrutinise
BBC expenditure?

That would be an
intolerable intrusion.

Well, of course.

Then there's this extraordinary
matter of boxes...

at Ascot, Wimbledon,
Lords, Covent Garden.

Ah, yes, those are a
technical requirement

for the production and
engineering staff.

Reports from the
Inland Revenue suggest

that the production
and engineering staff

are all holding champagne glasses.

And are all accompanied
by their wives or...

ladies of... equal distinction.

And all bear a remarkable similarity

to governors, directors and executives
of the Corporation, and their friends.

Oh, I say, you've come out very well.

It is possible we can
contain all this criticism,

provided the files
don't get any larger.

I've urged my minister
that there's no need...

to take up the civil
defence issue formally.

But... But you must see my position.

The BBC can't give in
to government pressure.

We wouldn't want them to.

- Wouldn't we?
- No, of course not.

The minister's interview with Ludovic
Kennedy did contain factual errors.

Factual errors? That's different.
The BBC

couldn't give in to
government pressure.

Absolutely not.

But we set great store
by factual accuracy.

Some of the information might well
be out of date by the time...

Out of date? Ah, now, that's serious.

Obviously, the BBC couldn't give in
to government pressure.

Oh, indeed not.

But we can't transmit
out-of-date material.

And since the recording,
I realised that I made one or two slips

that might have security implications.

- Such as?
- He can't tell you what they are.

- Why not?
- Security.

Can't be too careful about security.

If the defence of the realm is at stake,
we must be responsible.

Obviously, the BBC couldn't give in
to government pressure,

but security - you can't be too careful.

- Can't be too careful.
- Can't be too careful.

If there are inaccuracies
and security worries,

the BBC wouldn't want to
put the interview out.

Precisely.

That puts a different
complexion on it.

Transmission would not be
in the public's interest,

but I must make one
thing absolutely clear.

There can be absolutely
no question of the

BBC ever giving in to
government pressure.

Oh, good news, Minister.

The BBC have decided not to send out
your interview with Ludovic Kennedy.

Really?

They felt that was the
responsible course.

- Well done.
- Oh, it was nothing.

Yet, you know, I can't help feeling

that I was trapped into saying those
things that might've embarrassed the PM.

- Surely not?
- Yes.

I think I was
dropped right in it.

How could you think such
a ridiculous thought?

Why is it ridiculous to imagine that
he would've tried to trap me?

Who?

Ludovic Kennedy.

Oh, Ludovic Kennedy tried to trap you.
Yes, well, I'm sure he did.

- Deceitful crowd, the media. Underhand.
- No, thoroughly deceitful.

By the way, I think it might be wise
to lay off the local councils.

Oh, yes?

After all, councillors are responsible,
sensible people on the whole.

- And they are democratically elected.
- Democratically elected.

Central government must
be frightfully careful...

before it tells them
how to do their jobs.

Frightfully careful. And
the failure standards?

Well, I think the same applies...
don't you?

Yes, Minister.