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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:07,048 --> 00:00:13,596 ** 2 00:00:13,638 --> 00:00:15,682 Nock: Diane, how does it feel to be back here 3 00:00:15,724 --> 00:00:18,685 at Betty Lou's grave? 4 00:00:18,727 --> 00:00:21,688 What goes through your mind when you come here? 5 00:00:21,730 --> 00:00:25,025 I miss her. I miss her so much. 6 00:00:25,066 --> 00:00:27,277 Man: Betty Lou Jensen shot dead in a dark 7 00:00:27,318 --> 00:00:28,695 and desolate lovers' lane. 8 00:00:28,737 --> 00:00:30,989 I just always think about what she'd be like 9 00:00:31,031 --> 00:00:33,116 if she had a chance to grow up. 10 00:00:33,158 --> 00:00:35,201 [ Sniffles ] 11 00:00:35,243 --> 00:00:37,412 She'd have been an outstanding person. 12 00:00:37,454 --> 00:00:38,621 I know. 13 00:00:38,663 --> 00:00:40,582 [ Sighs ] 14 00:00:40,623 --> 00:00:42,459 So sad. 15 00:00:43,918 --> 00:00:46,212 Horan: I can't stop thinking about the fact 16 00:00:46,254 --> 00:00:47,547 that none of these people 17 00:00:47,589 --> 00:00:50,717 and their families ever got any justice. 18 00:00:53,511 --> 00:00:57,057 Zodiac, a symbol that now stands for terror 19 00:00:57,098 --> 00:00:58,558 in San Francisco. 20 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:01,061 There is a myth of the Zodiac Killer 21 00:01:01,102 --> 00:01:02,979 which has taken over. 22 00:01:03,021 --> 00:01:05,607 Woman: The Zodiac Killer, whose killing spree and ciphers 23 00:01:05,648 --> 00:01:08,568 around the Bay Area draw worldwide attention to this day. 24 00:01:08,610 --> 00:01:11,196 Puzzled authorities with a number of coded letters 25 00:01:11,237 --> 00:01:14,949 sent to newspapers and law enforcement. 26 00:01:14,991 --> 00:01:17,911 Nobody has come close to cracking this case 27 00:01:17,952 --> 00:01:20,747 for over 50 years. 28 00:01:20,789 --> 00:01:23,667 And that's because there was no single killer involved 29 00:01:23,708 --> 00:01:25,669 in these murders 30 00:01:25,710 --> 00:01:29,089 and the person writing the letters 31 00:01:29,130 --> 00:01:31,132 didn't commit any of the murders. 32 00:01:31,174 --> 00:01:34,344 [ Film projector whirring ] 33 00:01:34,386 --> 00:01:36,179 Beeson: When he first came out with the theory, 34 00:01:36,221 --> 00:01:38,264 he knew he was gonna get a lot of pushback. 35 00:01:38,890 --> 00:01:42,602 Butterfield: Thomas Horan has staked his reputation on this theory, 36 00:01:42,644 --> 00:01:46,773 and that's part of the problem with the Zodiac case. 37 00:01:46,815 --> 00:01:50,443 Most of the theories are basically just nonsense, 38 00:01:50,485 --> 00:01:53,238 and people refuse to give them up. 39 00:01:53,279 --> 00:01:54,531 I think it's important to start 40 00:01:54,572 --> 00:01:56,241 with the original police reports, 41 00:01:56,282 --> 00:01:59,035 the FBI files, and any other official documents 42 00:01:59,077 --> 00:02:00,537 you can get ahold of. 43 00:02:00,578 --> 00:02:03,623 That's where you'll find the facts. 44 00:02:03,665 --> 00:02:09,462 I'm the first person I know of who read all of the case files, 45 00:02:09,504 --> 00:02:12,632 all of the contemporary newspaper clippings. 46 00:02:12,674 --> 00:02:16,219 And what I discovered was the single biggest reason 47 00:02:16,261 --> 00:02:19,431 Zodiac was never caught 48 00:02:19,472 --> 00:02:21,933 is because the Zodiac Killer 49 00:02:21,975 --> 00:02:23,476 is a fictional character. 50 00:02:23,518 --> 00:02:25,979 He's a literary invention. 51 00:02:27,313 --> 00:02:30,400 Butterfield: You'd have to believe in all kinds of hoaxes 52 00:02:30,442 --> 00:02:32,986 and conspiracies to believe this. 53 00:02:33,028 --> 00:02:37,824 The simplest explanation that's in keeping with the known facts 54 00:02:37,866 --> 00:02:39,993 is that one person was responsible 55 00:02:40,035 --> 00:02:42,454 for the crimes and the letters. 56 00:02:42,495 --> 00:02:46,666 Horan: If we change how we look at the Zodiac case, 57 00:02:46,708 --> 00:02:49,919 a whole different reality becomes possible. 58 00:02:51,588 --> 00:02:55,508 Nock: To make a breakthrough in America's most famous cold case, 59 00:02:55,550 --> 00:02:58,011 I'm trying something that's never been attempted 60 00:02:58,053 --> 00:02:59,429 in the Zodiac saga -- 61 00:02:59,471 --> 00:03:01,931 an analysis through computational linguistics 62 00:03:01,973 --> 00:03:03,975 and artificial intelligence. 63 00:03:04,017 --> 00:03:06,770 If the A.I. points towards a single letter writer, 64 00:03:06,811 --> 00:03:11,566 then Professor Horan is flat-out wrong. 65 00:03:11,608 --> 00:03:13,318 And then, of course, the biggest question is, 66 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:16,654 is, if I'm right, the letters were a hoax, 67 00:03:16,696 --> 00:03:20,200 then the Zodiac itself is a hoax. 68 00:03:20,241 --> 00:03:25,372 ** 69 00:03:25,413 --> 00:03:29,000 Man: Somebody says he committed all five murders 70 00:03:29,042 --> 00:03:30,919 and will commit yet more. 71 00:03:32,962 --> 00:03:37,133 Man #2: Zodiac, a symbol of terror in San Francisco. 72 00:03:37,175 --> 00:03:43,890 ** 73 00:03:43,932 --> 00:03:50,647 ** 74 00:03:50,689 --> 00:03:57,028 ** 75 00:03:57,070 --> 00:03:59,531 Nock: Coming into this investigation, 76 00:03:59,572 --> 00:04:00,907 I suppose I was like everyone else 77 00:04:00,949 --> 00:04:03,326 who had taken an interest in this iconic case. 78 00:04:03,368 --> 00:04:07,664 I believed all the murders were committed by one person. Why? 79 00:04:07,706 --> 00:04:10,625 Well, partially because when you search online for Zodiac, 80 00:04:10,667 --> 00:04:12,419 that's the prevailing narrative. 81 00:04:12,460 --> 00:04:15,797 It's the mainstream belief. 82 00:04:15,839 --> 00:04:19,384 But also just look at the first two crimes side by side. 83 00:04:19,426 --> 00:04:21,970 December of 1968 was the shooting deaths 84 00:04:22,012 --> 00:04:23,763 of two high-school students 85 00:04:23,805 --> 00:04:27,517 in a lovers' lane in Benicia, California. 86 00:04:27,559 --> 00:04:29,269 The second so-called Zodiac crime 87 00:04:29,310 --> 00:04:31,521 was about seven months later. 88 00:04:31,563 --> 00:04:34,024 It was also a shooting in not quite a lovers' lane, 89 00:04:34,065 --> 00:04:35,567 but a teen hangout in Vallejo, 90 00:04:35,608 --> 00:04:38,737 just a few miles down the road from the first crime. 91 00:04:38,778 --> 00:04:40,530 Law enforcement didn't connect these two crimes 92 00:04:40,572 --> 00:04:44,951 until about a month after the second crime... 93 00:04:44,993 --> 00:04:48,663 when three pretty terrifying letters arrived at newspapers 94 00:04:48,705 --> 00:04:53,084 in San Francisco and Vallejo claiming credit for the kills. 95 00:04:56,212 --> 00:04:58,089 So all of this makes sense. 96 00:04:58,131 --> 00:05:00,592 But where it really goes off the rails for me 97 00:05:00,633 --> 00:05:02,093 and where it really spirals 98 00:05:02,135 --> 00:05:04,888 for Professor Thomas Horan, who already has questions 99 00:05:04,929 --> 00:05:07,724 about a single killer after the first two crimes, 100 00:05:07,766 --> 00:05:10,518 is the third so-called Zodiac crime, 101 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:12,479 which happens a month and a half 102 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:15,774 after the "I am the Zodiac" letter. 103 00:05:18,401 --> 00:05:19,652 Horan: There is no evidence 104 00:05:19,694 --> 00:05:22,489 that connects any two of these murders, 105 00:05:22,530 --> 00:05:24,657 let alone connects all of the murders 106 00:05:24,699 --> 00:05:26,910 and let alone connects them to the letters. 107 00:05:26,951 --> 00:05:30,080 And the attack where we can see this most clearly 108 00:05:30,121 --> 00:05:33,208 is the third attack at Lake Berryessa. 109 00:05:33,249 --> 00:05:40,340 ** 110 00:05:40,382 --> 00:05:47,514 ** 111 00:05:47,555 --> 00:05:49,349 The third canonical Zodiac crime 112 00:05:49,391 --> 00:05:52,143 is what we call Lake Berryessa. 113 00:05:54,562 --> 00:05:57,315 The two victims were Bryan Calvin Hartnell 114 00:05:57,357 --> 00:06:00,026 and Cecelia Ann Shepard. 115 00:06:00,068 --> 00:06:03,363 Bryan had run into Cecelia at Pacific Union College, 116 00:06:03,405 --> 00:06:06,241 which they used to attend together. 117 00:06:06,282 --> 00:06:08,785 Cecelia was currently attending college in Riverside, 118 00:06:08,827 --> 00:06:11,371 but had come up to the Northern California area 119 00:06:11,413 --> 00:06:12,997 to visit a few friends. 120 00:06:13,039 --> 00:06:16,126 She ran into Bryan at the cafeteria that day, 121 00:06:16,167 --> 00:06:18,044 and they had previously dated, 122 00:06:18,086 --> 00:06:20,880 so they decided to go spend some time together. 123 00:06:20,922 --> 00:06:23,883 They were originally gonna go into the city of San Francisco, 124 00:06:23,925 --> 00:06:27,846 but at the last moment, they decided to go to Lake Berryessa. 125 00:06:27,887 --> 00:06:35,812 ** 126 00:06:35,854 --> 00:06:38,273 Nock: So I'm here at Lake Berryessa 127 00:06:38,314 --> 00:06:40,358 in Napa, California. 128 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:44,654 This is the site of the third so-called Zodiac attack. 129 00:06:46,281 --> 00:06:47,824 I'm gonna meet Dave Collins. 130 00:06:47,866 --> 00:06:49,784 Dave Collins was one of the original detectives on the case, 131 00:06:49,826 --> 00:06:52,328 one of the last few people who are still alive 132 00:06:52,370 --> 00:06:55,957 who can walk me through exactly what happened that day. 133 00:06:58,335 --> 00:07:00,128 Dave? Collins: Yeah. 134 00:07:01,379 --> 00:07:02,756 There you are. Nice to meet you. 135 00:07:02,797 --> 00:07:04,632 Andrew Nock. Andrew. Hey. Dave Collins. 136 00:07:04,674 --> 00:07:05,925 Thanks so much for coming down. 137 00:07:05,967 --> 00:07:08,011 I really appreciate it. Nice meeting you. 138 00:07:08,053 --> 00:07:11,264 Maybe you can walk me down to the murder site, please. 139 00:07:11,306 --> 00:07:12,932 Sure. Sure. 140 00:07:14,893 --> 00:07:19,814 This all happened over 50 years ago. 141 00:07:19,856 --> 00:07:23,360 Trees are gone. The grasses are a little different. 142 00:07:23,401 --> 00:07:25,362 The water level's lower. 143 00:07:25,403 --> 00:07:28,740 But it's all basically the same. 144 00:07:30,325 --> 00:07:35,955 Right here is where the crime scene actually was. 145 00:07:35,997 --> 00:07:44,464 ** 146 00:07:44,506 --> 00:07:47,467 How does it feel to be back here? 147 00:07:47,509 --> 00:07:48,760 Not that good. 148 00:07:48,802 --> 00:07:50,804 I don't have good memories of this 149 00:07:50,845 --> 00:07:54,683 because this was a terrible crime that was committed. 150 00:07:56,643 --> 00:08:00,814 A lot of sorrow, a lot of people upset, 151 00:08:00,855 --> 00:08:03,942 and rightfully so. 152 00:08:03,983 --> 00:08:07,779 We didn't have this type of a crime at Lake Berryessa. 153 00:08:07,821 --> 00:08:09,823 And even since then, there hasn't been a crime 154 00:08:09,864 --> 00:08:13,118 like that here at Lake Berryessa. 155 00:08:14,744 --> 00:08:16,246 So can you point out 156 00:08:16,287 --> 00:08:19,833 where Bryan and Cecelia first saw this mystery man? 157 00:08:19,874 --> 00:08:23,878 They were here. where I'm standing. 158 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:27,674 There was a large oak tree right -- right here. 159 00:08:27,716 --> 00:08:29,551 And it cast shade. 160 00:08:29,592 --> 00:08:33,263 And so they had put a blanket down. 161 00:08:34,973 --> 00:08:36,933 Butterfield: They settled along the shoreline, 162 00:08:36,975 --> 00:08:40,478 and they were there together for some time, when Cecelia 163 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:44,774 noticed a man walking through the trees above them. 164 00:08:44,816 --> 00:08:46,651 And he's not wearing a costume or anything, 165 00:08:46,693 --> 00:08:48,903 and she just knows that it's a white male. 166 00:08:48,945 --> 00:08:50,822 And Bryan wasn't too concerned about it 167 00:08:50,864 --> 00:08:53,616 because at this point, he's pretty far away. 168 00:08:53,658 --> 00:08:55,785 Butterfield: But at a certain point, 169 00:08:55,827 --> 00:08:57,704 the man approached Cecelia and Bryan, 170 00:08:57,746 --> 00:09:00,373 and he was wearing a dark hooded costume 171 00:09:00,415 --> 00:09:03,376 with a white crossed circle on the chest. 172 00:09:03,418 --> 00:09:04,836 He was carrying a gun. 173 00:09:04,878 --> 00:09:07,130 He had a knife and a sheath on his belt. 174 00:09:07,172 --> 00:09:11,092 And he also had some precut lengths of plastic clothesline. 175 00:09:13,094 --> 00:09:15,722 When he came out, she said, "He's got a mask on." 176 00:09:15,764 --> 00:09:17,098 And that was my first inkling 177 00:09:17,140 --> 00:09:19,976 that there was anything actually wrong going on. 178 00:09:20,018 --> 00:09:23,480 He had this black hood on, came clear down to here. 179 00:09:23,521 --> 00:09:25,398 Just little slits in the eyes 180 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:27,108 and where -- you know, these clip-on glasses. 181 00:09:27,150 --> 00:09:31,738 They were clipped into those little loops. 182 00:09:31,780 --> 00:09:35,742 Beeson: This black ceremonial-type hood has a logo on it, 183 00:09:35,784 --> 00:09:38,078 which is the Zodiac's crossed-circle logo. 184 00:09:38,119 --> 00:09:40,080 And Bryan said that this was done with care 185 00:09:40,121 --> 00:09:43,333 as if it was sewn. Very elaborate costume. 186 00:09:44,793 --> 00:09:46,836 The man confronted them and said, 187 00:09:46,878 --> 00:09:49,589 "Don't worry. I just need your car keys and your money. 188 00:09:49,631 --> 00:09:51,257 I'm not going to do anything to you." 189 00:09:51,299 --> 00:09:52,884 He was apparently trying to lull them 190 00:09:52,926 --> 00:09:55,261 into a false sense of security. 191 00:09:55,303 --> 00:09:56,763 Beeson: And Bryan says, 192 00:09:56,805 --> 00:09:58,973 "Hey, I have a little bit of change in my pocket. 193 00:09:59,015 --> 00:10:00,892 That's all I have. But you're welcome to it." 194 00:10:00,934 --> 00:10:02,936 And he says, "No, what I need to do 195 00:10:02,977 --> 00:10:04,562 is get you two guys tied up." 196 00:10:04,604 --> 00:10:09,359 So Cecelia tied Bryan, and then the man tied Cecelia up. 197 00:10:09,401 --> 00:10:11,736 Then, without any warning, 198 00:10:11,778 --> 00:10:13,738 the man pulled out a long knife. 199 00:10:13,780 --> 00:10:17,117 Beeson: What Bryan would later describe as a foot-long knife, 200 00:10:17,158 --> 00:10:20,620 and he starts stabbing Bryan in the back. 201 00:10:20,662 --> 00:10:21,830 And Bryan just starts hearing 202 00:10:21,871 --> 00:10:25,375 this "chomp, chomp, chomp" sound. 203 00:10:25,417 --> 00:10:27,919 Butterfield: He stabbed him approximately six times, 204 00:10:27,961 --> 00:10:30,171 and Bryan decided to play dead. 205 00:10:30,213 --> 00:10:34,718 At that point, the man stopped, and he turned on Cecelia, 206 00:10:34,759 --> 00:10:36,094 who was, of course, terrified 207 00:10:36,136 --> 00:10:39,139 after watching Bryan being stabbed. 208 00:10:39,180 --> 00:10:41,057 She's tied up, and she's frantic, 209 00:10:41,099 --> 00:10:44,310 and he starts stabbing her multiple times. 210 00:10:44,352 --> 00:10:46,187 More times than Bryan. 211 00:10:49,816 --> 00:10:52,652 She was apparently stabbed at least 10 times, 212 00:10:52,694 --> 00:10:56,364 five times in the front and five times in the back. 213 00:10:57,824 --> 00:11:00,744 Beeson: And then he just calmly walks off, doesn't say anything. 214 00:11:00,785 --> 00:11:04,914 He calmly keeps his costume on, and he quietly walks away. 215 00:11:07,250 --> 00:11:08,835 After the two were stabbed, 216 00:11:08,877 --> 00:11:11,254 Bryan thinks his bindings are loose enough, 217 00:11:11,296 --> 00:11:15,592 and Cecelia helps Bryan get his hands untied. 218 00:11:15,633 --> 00:11:17,218 And he's in a lot of pain. 219 00:11:17,260 --> 00:11:21,556 And Bryan starts crawling his way to start trying to get help. 220 00:11:21,598 --> 00:11:24,976 I made it up about 300 yards up, 221 00:11:25,018 --> 00:11:27,854 up almost to the road, and it was a slow process 222 00:11:27,896 --> 00:11:29,356 because I kept black-- I couldn't see. 223 00:11:29,397 --> 00:11:31,983 I kept blacking out, and my legs kept getting weak. 224 00:11:32,025 --> 00:11:33,234 But I was getting progress. 225 00:11:33,276 --> 00:11:35,362 I think I could have made it to the road. 226 00:11:35,403 --> 00:11:39,407 Eventually, Bryan's picked up by park ranger Dennis Land, 227 00:11:39,449 --> 00:11:41,409 and he gets in his car. 228 00:11:45,288 --> 00:11:47,665 The police are called. They show up to the crime scene. 229 00:11:47,707 --> 00:11:50,085 [ Siren wailing ] 230 00:11:50,126 --> 00:11:52,879 Collins: I was the deputy sheriff at the time. 231 00:11:52,921 --> 00:11:54,214 I'm here on the scene. 232 00:11:54,255 --> 00:11:58,134 I've arrived, and Cecelia's on the blanket 233 00:11:58,176 --> 00:12:01,846 and having a very difficult time speaking, 234 00:12:01,888 --> 00:12:05,392 in a lot of pain. 235 00:12:05,433 --> 00:12:08,395 I asked her, I said, "Well, how do you describe this guy?" 236 00:12:08,436 --> 00:12:13,149 She was estimating he was probably almost 6 foot. 237 00:12:13,191 --> 00:12:15,485 It was bulky. He looked sloppy. 238 00:12:15,527 --> 00:12:19,698 She said, "I saw his face when he stood behind the tree." 239 00:12:19,739 --> 00:12:23,076 Said it was more of a round-type face. 240 00:12:23,118 --> 00:12:26,287 And he had just a normal haircut, brown hair, 241 00:12:26,329 --> 00:12:28,915 but enough so that when he pulled the hood on, 242 00:12:28,957 --> 00:12:32,293 it showed on his forehead through the mask. 243 00:12:34,087 --> 00:12:35,255 And I had asked her, I said, 244 00:12:35,296 --> 00:12:37,507 "Well, how old do you think he was?" 245 00:12:37,549 --> 00:12:40,010 And she said he was in his mid-20s then. 246 00:12:40,051 --> 00:12:41,678 "I would say mid-20s." 247 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:45,306 And she herself was 22. 248 00:12:48,101 --> 00:12:50,937 After the killer walked away from the victims 249 00:12:50,979 --> 00:12:54,441 at Lake Berryessa, he apparently walked up the hill 250 00:12:54,482 --> 00:12:57,444 to where Bryan Hartnell's Karmann Ghia was parked. 251 00:12:57,485 --> 00:13:01,906 And then he used a marker to leave a message on the car door. 252 00:13:03,199 --> 00:13:06,453 Beeson: The killer put the dates of Lake Herman Road, 253 00:13:06,494 --> 00:13:10,165 and then he puts the dates of Blue Rock Springs, 254 00:13:10,206 --> 00:13:12,042 and then he writes out the date of the attack 255 00:13:12,083 --> 00:13:13,043 that just occurred. 256 00:13:13,084 --> 00:13:16,296 He writes "Sept. 27." 257 00:13:19,174 --> 00:13:23,553 There is, as far as I'm concerned, a definite pattern. 258 00:13:23,595 --> 00:13:27,474 The message left on the side of the victim's door 259 00:13:27,515 --> 00:13:32,270 with the dates of the Solano County murders 260 00:13:32,312 --> 00:13:34,064 and ours, 261 00:13:34,105 --> 00:13:36,107 along with other items that are on there, 262 00:13:36,149 --> 00:13:40,570 have definitely indicated to us that they're one and the same. 263 00:13:42,238 --> 00:13:44,115 Nock: So, Thomas, there isn't a letter sent 264 00:13:44,157 --> 00:13:46,117 after the murder at Lake Berryessa, 265 00:13:46,159 --> 00:13:47,994 but the writing on the car door 266 00:13:48,036 --> 00:13:49,537 and what is said on the car door 267 00:13:49,579 --> 00:13:51,247 has the local authorities convinced 268 00:13:51,289 --> 00:13:52,999 that this crime is connected 269 00:13:53,041 --> 00:13:54,334 to the Benicia and Vallejo killings 270 00:13:54,376 --> 00:13:56,461 that we've talked about? That's right. 271 00:13:56,503 --> 00:13:58,630 Before we get into whether you agree with that assessment, 272 00:13:58,672 --> 00:14:02,300 I want to know if you are aware that it wasn't just Cecelia 273 00:14:02,342 --> 00:14:05,387 and Bryan who saw the so-called Zodiac Killer that day. 274 00:14:05,428 --> 00:14:07,847 Oh, yes. There were others at the lake 275 00:14:07,889 --> 00:14:11,101 that day who witnessed the killer. 276 00:14:11,142 --> 00:14:13,269 And, in fact, Cecelia and the college girls 277 00:14:13,311 --> 00:14:17,607 gave very similar accounts of what the attacker looked like. 278 00:14:19,317 --> 00:14:22,278 Nock: The college girls Professor Horan is referring to 279 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:24,614 have remained in the shadows of the Zodiac story 280 00:14:24,656 --> 00:14:26,032 for half a century. 281 00:14:26,074 --> 00:14:27,701 But I found one of them. 282 00:14:27,742 --> 00:14:31,538 And bravely, she's coming on camera for the very first time. 283 00:14:31,579 --> 00:14:41,089 ** 284 00:14:41,131 --> 00:14:42,590 So, Linda, thank you very much 285 00:14:42,632 --> 00:14:47,721 for coming to meet with me here at Lake Berryessa. 286 00:14:47,762 --> 00:14:50,432 How does it feel to be here? 287 00:14:50,473 --> 00:14:51,975 Not good. 288 00:14:52,017 --> 00:14:53,643 It's very emotional still. 289 00:14:53,685 --> 00:14:55,478 I have a lot of anxiety. 290 00:14:55,520 --> 00:15:00,567 I still -- You know, I carried fear for decades. 291 00:15:02,235 --> 00:15:04,362 You haven't spoken about this incident 292 00:15:04,404 --> 00:15:08,366 from September 27, 1969, very often, have you? 293 00:15:08,408 --> 00:15:10,785 No, I've never talked about it. 294 00:15:10,827 --> 00:15:13,163 I've kept it really quiet. 295 00:15:13,204 --> 00:15:16,207 My family doesn't even know the details. 296 00:15:16,249 --> 00:15:19,085 You know, I did not want my face out there, my name. 297 00:15:19,127 --> 00:15:23,590 So everything, I wanted kept quiet, shut down. 298 00:15:23,631 --> 00:15:27,927 Because if I am one of the only witnesses 299 00:15:27,969 --> 00:15:30,472 to seeing the Zodiac, 300 00:15:30,513 --> 00:15:32,807 I just assumed he might come for me. 301 00:15:32,849 --> 00:15:36,186 ** 302 00:15:39,481 --> 00:15:45,320 ** 303 00:15:45,362 --> 00:15:47,864 Just being out here today, here it comes again. 304 00:15:47,906 --> 00:15:51,993 I feel anxious and unsettled. 305 00:15:52,035 --> 00:15:57,165 But he can't possibly be still alive, is what I'm thinking. 306 00:15:57,207 --> 00:16:01,211 And so I'm trying to use this experience 307 00:16:01,252 --> 00:16:04,464 as a way of healing for me 308 00:16:04,506 --> 00:16:08,218 and just let it be a story from the past. 309 00:16:08,259 --> 00:16:16,226 ** 310 00:16:16,267 --> 00:16:19,104 Bryan was my class at Pacific Union College, 311 00:16:19,145 --> 00:16:23,024 and Cecelia was my dormitory monitor. 312 00:16:23,066 --> 00:16:28,071 She's radiant, tiny, petite, 313 00:16:28,113 --> 00:16:29,447 just glowing with light. 314 00:16:29,489 --> 00:16:33,076 She's kind, she's funny. She was a music major. 315 00:16:33,118 --> 00:16:34,911 Very talented. 316 00:16:34,953 --> 00:16:39,457 Can you tell us what and who you saw that day? 317 00:16:39,499 --> 00:16:43,461 It was a girlfriend and her friend. 318 00:16:43,503 --> 00:16:48,133 And we drove to the lake, 319 00:16:48,174 --> 00:16:50,593 laid our towels down, 320 00:16:50,635 --> 00:16:54,472 and a few minutes later, I looked up. 321 00:16:54,514 --> 00:16:59,728 And the oak tree closest to us on the beach, 322 00:16:59,769 --> 00:17:04,274 there was a man standing behind the oak tree. 323 00:17:04,315 --> 00:17:09,738 And he would kind of move his head to watch us. 324 00:17:09,779 --> 00:17:11,281 So, you know, we're whispering to each other, 325 00:17:11,322 --> 00:17:13,116 "Just don't look at him. Don't look at him. 326 00:17:13,158 --> 00:17:15,201 And just don't pay any attention." 327 00:17:15,243 --> 00:17:16,953 But every now and then, I would look up, 328 00:17:16,995 --> 00:17:18,455 and he would be watching us, 329 00:17:18,496 --> 00:17:24,169 and he would move to another tree to get a little closer. 330 00:17:24,210 --> 00:17:25,503 We're completely freaked out 331 00:17:25,545 --> 00:17:27,505 because now he's between us and our car, 332 00:17:27,547 --> 00:17:29,841 which is parked way up on the bank. 333 00:17:29,883 --> 00:17:34,888 And we were really, really nervous. 334 00:17:34,929 --> 00:17:40,685 ** 335 00:17:40,727 --> 00:17:43,688 We probably just lay there tense, 336 00:17:43,730 --> 00:17:48,443 wanting to leave for 45 minutes or something. 337 00:17:50,028 --> 00:17:55,909 And eventually we looked up, and he was gone. 338 00:17:55,950 --> 00:17:58,578 Didn't see him. 339 00:17:58,620 --> 00:18:02,874 And grabbed our towels, ran up to the car. 340 00:18:04,668 --> 00:18:08,380 Noticed there was a car parked, a little white car, 341 00:18:08,421 --> 00:18:11,049 a little bit down the road to our left, 342 00:18:11,091 --> 00:18:13,093 but there was nobody in it. 343 00:18:13,134 --> 00:18:16,221 That was Bryan and Cecelia's car. 344 00:18:16,262 --> 00:18:20,725 About the time we left, Bryan and Cece arrived 345 00:18:20,767 --> 00:18:26,439 and they were literally the next little inlet over from us. 346 00:18:26,481 --> 00:18:30,568 And then the next morning, really early, 347 00:18:30,610 --> 00:18:35,490 we got word that Cece and Bryan had been attacked. 348 00:18:35,532 --> 00:18:38,368 And when we heard the word Lake Berryessa, 349 00:18:38,410 --> 00:18:39,786 we thought, "Oh, my God." 350 00:18:39,828 --> 00:18:45,333 So I went to the girls' dean and told her our story. 351 00:18:45,375 --> 00:18:47,544 And so the girls' dean called the police 352 00:18:47,585 --> 00:18:51,381 and they asked us to come down and be interviewed. 353 00:18:53,591 --> 00:18:58,888 I spent hours and hours there the first day and the next day 354 00:18:58,930 --> 00:19:01,725 and the next day just trying to remember 355 00:19:01,766 --> 00:19:03,393 and trying to place the timing 356 00:19:03,435 --> 00:19:06,229 and trying to describe exactly where we were. 357 00:19:06,271 --> 00:19:09,566 And then working with the artist 358 00:19:09,607 --> 00:19:13,737 to get an Identi-Kit face out there. 359 00:19:13,778 --> 00:19:19,826 ** 360 00:19:19,868 --> 00:19:25,540 When the funeral happened, the FBI was on site, 361 00:19:25,582 --> 00:19:28,752 and I'm not sure that's widely known. 362 00:19:28,793 --> 00:19:31,463 I only know because they contacted me directly. 363 00:19:31,504 --> 00:19:34,799 And two agents and two cars came to the funeral, 364 00:19:34,841 --> 00:19:40,305 and they asked me to stand with them outside the church 365 00:19:40,347 --> 00:19:41,806 and just to observe everybody coming 366 00:19:41,848 --> 00:19:47,103 on the thought that maybe he would show up at the service. 367 00:19:47,145 --> 00:19:49,689 It was horrible. 368 00:19:49,731 --> 00:19:53,651 And I felt like I was the only person with a possibility 369 00:19:53,693 --> 00:19:56,154 of identifying somebody. 370 00:19:56,196 --> 00:20:01,117 And this is the photo that was taken of me by the FBI. 371 00:20:01,159 --> 00:20:07,290 I could just see the headache and the stress and the focus. 372 00:20:07,332 --> 00:20:09,292 It felt really unfair for me 373 00:20:09,334 --> 00:20:12,921 to have to carry that kind of a load. 374 00:20:12,962 --> 00:20:15,590 It was -- It was really difficult. 375 00:20:15,632 --> 00:20:19,803 I was concerned for my safety for years. 376 00:20:19,844 --> 00:20:23,807 The police report says approximately 28 years of age, 377 00:20:23,848 --> 00:20:27,811 6' to 6'2", 200 to 225 pounds. 378 00:20:27,852 --> 00:20:32,148 Black hair, possibly be styled with a parting on the left. 379 00:20:32,190 --> 00:20:34,651 Yes. 380 00:20:34,693 --> 00:20:38,613 He had very smooth, parted hair 381 00:20:38,655 --> 00:20:39,989 and combed really straight. 382 00:20:40,031 --> 00:20:43,576 So he looked really conservative and really straight, 383 00:20:43,618 --> 00:20:46,079 just very intense, you know, like focused. 384 00:20:46,121 --> 00:20:51,167 It just -- The vibes coming off of him were were... 385 00:20:51,209 --> 00:20:53,336 were bad, dark. 386 00:20:53,378 --> 00:20:54,879 All of us felt that. 387 00:20:56,965 --> 00:20:59,843 Pass this to you right now. 388 00:20:59,884 --> 00:21:02,846 When you see that, what's going through your mind? 389 00:21:04,973 --> 00:21:06,933 [ Exhales sharply ] 390 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:09,686 I see predator. 391 00:21:09,728 --> 00:21:12,230 I mean, I get fear. 392 00:21:12,272 --> 00:21:13,356 Um... 393 00:21:13,398 --> 00:21:16,192 It's accurate? 394 00:21:16,234 --> 00:21:17,527 I would say... 395 00:21:17,569 --> 00:21:20,655 certainly the hair was exactly like this. 396 00:21:20,697 --> 00:21:24,868 It was conservative. Parted this way. 397 00:21:24,909 --> 00:21:28,121 Eyes, the shape is right. The mouth is right. 398 00:21:30,081 --> 00:21:33,877 So, Linda, do you feel like the person that you saw 399 00:21:33,918 --> 00:21:38,757 was responsible for the attack on Bryan and Cecelia? 400 00:21:38,798 --> 00:21:42,427 What are the chances that somebody would follow us 401 00:21:42,469 --> 00:21:44,095 right there, right at that timing, 402 00:21:44,137 --> 00:21:47,557 and then there's a crime committed right next to it, 403 00:21:47,599 --> 00:21:51,644 and when we had such negative reactions to this person? 404 00:21:51,686 --> 00:21:55,398 I felt like we saw the Zodiac that day. 405 00:21:55,440 --> 00:22:01,696 ** 406 00:22:01,738 --> 00:22:05,283 But there are other, you know, drawings 407 00:22:05,325 --> 00:22:06,785 that came out of the Zodiac 408 00:22:06,826 --> 00:22:10,080 that looked nothing like what I thought I saw that day, 409 00:22:10,121 --> 00:22:13,416 so that confuses me. 410 00:22:13,458 --> 00:22:16,753 Now, what Linda is referring to is this. 411 00:22:16,795 --> 00:22:20,757 This is the famous Zodiac sketch that was made by law enforcement 412 00:22:20,799 --> 00:22:24,636 after the fourth so-called Zodiac crime in San Francisco. 413 00:22:24,678 --> 00:22:26,513 I'm jumping ahead right now in our documentary 414 00:22:26,554 --> 00:22:29,182 because you need to see this sketch. 415 00:22:29,224 --> 00:22:30,684 This is considered by experts 416 00:22:30,725 --> 00:22:33,353 to be the best representation of the Zodiac Killer 417 00:22:33,395 --> 00:22:36,481 because it comes from witnesses of that fourth crime 418 00:22:36,523 --> 00:22:38,358 who gave police what they believed 419 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:39,776 was an accurate description. 420 00:22:39,818 --> 00:22:42,112 But the problem with it is this. 421 00:22:42,153 --> 00:22:44,114 It looks nothing like the Identi-Kit 422 00:22:44,155 --> 00:22:47,492 made from Linda Jensen's description in the third crime, 423 00:22:47,534 --> 00:22:49,619 perhaps reinforcing Horan's theory 424 00:22:49,661 --> 00:22:51,746 that there is not one killer. 425 00:22:54,916 --> 00:22:57,168 So this is the Identi-Kit 426 00:22:57,210 --> 00:22:59,796 that was taken that day at Lake Berryessa. 427 00:22:59,838 --> 00:23:01,339 Collins: Yeah. This is what Cecelia 428 00:23:01,381 --> 00:23:05,051 had described as the suspect, Zodiac. 429 00:23:05,093 --> 00:23:07,679 This is -- This is a good likeness of him. 430 00:23:07,721 --> 00:23:09,889 This description, just to clarify, 431 00:23:09,931 --> 00:23:11,224 was from the three students. 432 00:23:11,266 --> 00:23:12,976 Right. But you think that it matches...? 433 00:23:13,018 --> 00:23:14,811 Yeah. Yeah, it matches what she said. 434 00:23:14,853 --> 00:23:17,063 So let me show you this. 435 00:23:17,105 --> 00:23:20,817 This is the sketch from San Francisco. 436 00:23:20,859 --> 00:23:22,277 Not even -- Not even close. 437 00:23:22,318 --> 00:23:24,320 That's my question, because one of the things 438 00:23:24,362 --> 00:23:27,323 I'm investigating is the idea... Not even close. 439 00:23:27,365 --> 00:23:31,077 ...that there was possibly two different killers. No. No. 440 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:33,413 And this would suggest that it was two different people, 441 00:23:33,455 --> 00:23:35,665 to me. Yeah. 442 00:23:35,707 --> 00:23:38,418 I don't think there are two different people. 443 00:23:38,460 --> 00:23:39,753 I think there's only one, 444 00:23:39,794 --> 00:23:43,965 but I think this is an accurate description. 445 00:23:44,007 --> 00:23:45,342 And this one? 446 00:23:45,383 --> 00:23:49,262 Well, my statement is this is the accurate description. 447 00:23:49,304 --> 00:23:52,098 So you're more -- you're inclined to believe 448 00:23:52,140 --> 00:23:55,685 that there was one killer. One killer. 449 00:23:55,727 --> 00:23:57,812 And that one killer looked like the person 450 00:23:57,854 --> 00:24:00,648 that was seen at Lake Berryessa. Correct. 451 00:24:01,900 --> 00:24:04,694 Okay, so let's just take stock of where we are. 452 00:24:04,736 --> 00:24:07,030 Without even examining the fourth crime, 453 00:24:07,072 --> 00:24:09,824 what we know is that the witness of a potential killer 454 00:24:09,866 --> 00:24:12,869 at Lake Berryessa, Linda Jensen... 455 00:24:12,911 --> 00:24:15,455 and a deputy sheriff who talked to Cecelia Shepard 456 00:24:15,497 --> 00:24:17,957 before she died, Dave Collins, 457 00:24:17,999 --> 00:24:21,252 both state that the alleged killer at Lake Berryessa 458 00:24:21,294 --> 00:24:24,547 looks nothing like the alleged killer in San Francisco 459 00:24:24,589 --> 00:24:26,132 at the Paul Stine murder. 460 00:24:26,174 --> 00:24:28,343 Now, that's a clear win for Professor Horan, 461 00:24:28,385 --> 00:24:31,429 who theorizes that the notion of a single person 462 00:24:31,471 --> 00:24:33,973 as a Zodiac Killer is a myth. 463 00:24:34,015 --> 00:24:36,226 So if the killer of the third and fourth murders 464 00:24:36,267 --> 00:24:40,188 is a different person, then the question becomes this -- 465 00:24:40,230 --> 00:24:43,066 could the killer of the third crime at Lake Berryessa 466 00:24:43,108 --> 00:24:46,236 be the same killer of the first two crimes 467 00:24:46,277 --> 00:24:48,154 in Benicia and Vallejo? 468 00:24:48,196 --> 00:24:49,739 Do the MOs match up? 469 00:24:49,781 --> 00:24:53,576 Or are there more differences than similarities? 470 00:24:53,618 --> 00:24:56,121 Thomas, there is no letter sent 471 00:24:56,162 --> 00:24:58,623 after the murder at Lake Berryessa, 472 00:24:58,665 --> 00:25:00,583 but the killer writes on the car door 473 00:25:00,625 --> 00:25:03,878 and very clearly connects this crime to the first two crimes. 474 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:05,422 But you're not convinced? 475 00:25:05,463 --> 00:25:08,550 Horan: That message that was written on the car door 476 00:25:08,591 --> 00:25:11,428 is the only thing that ties this crime 477 00:25:11,469 --> 00:25:13,888 to any other Zodiac murders. 478 00:25:13,930 --> 00:25:15,390 So the attacker at Lake Berryessa, 479 00:25:15,432 --> 00:25:18,601 he wrote this message on the door of the victim's car, 480 00:25:18,643 --> 00:25:19,894 implying that he's the guy 481 00:25:19,936 --> 00:25:22,272 writing the letters to the newspapers. 482 00:25:22,313 --> 00:25:24,107 But he used a black felt-tip pen 483 00:25:24,149 --> 00:25:27,444 because he didn't know that the real "Zodiac letter writer" 484 00:25:27,485 --> 00:25:30,613 used a blue felt-tip pen. 485 00:25:30,655 --> 00:25:32,907 Point after point after point, 486 00:25:32,949 --> 00:25:37,078 there is zero evidence that this is not a copycat killer, 487 00:25:37,120 --> 00:25:40,832 and all the evidence points to your typical copycat slaying. 488 00:25:40,874 --> 00:25:43,793 You have a completely different MO. 489 00:25:43,835 --> 00:25:45,962 This is at a lake in broad daylight, 490 00:25:46,004 --> 00:25:48,131 not at a lovers' lane at night. 491 00:25:48,173 --> 00:25:50,925 He talked to the victim for over 15 minutes. 492 00:25:50,967 --> 00:25:52,635 And we know in the second crime, 493 00:25:52,677 --> 00:25:54,637 at least, there was no conversation 494 00:25:54,679 --> 00:25:56,765 between the killer and the victims. 495 00:25:56,806 --> 00:25:58,850 The weapon choice is completely different. 496 00:25:58,892 --> 00:26:02,771 Here, a knife is used and not a gun. 497 00:26:02,812 --> 00:26:04,856 He was wearing this hood costume, 498 00:26:04,898 --> 00:26:08,985 bizarre getup with this circled crosshairs symbol. 499 00:26:09,027 --> 00:26:12,280 All of these clues that supposedly tie 500 00:26:12,322 --> 00:26:16,409 the attack at Lake Berryessa to these Zodiac letters... 501 00:26:18,286 --> 00:26:22,791 ...actually, they kind of prove it was a copycat killer 502 00:26:22,832 --> 00:26:25,126 because the entire first letter, 503 00:26:25,168 --> 00:26:27,170 including the circled crosshair symbol, 504 00:26:27,212 --> 00:26:29,714 had been published in some of the papers 505 00:26:29,756 --> 00:26:31,925 about eight weeks before the attack. 506 00:26:31,966 --> 00:26:35,220 So anybody in Napa County who wanted to commit this murder 507 00:26:35,261 --> 00:26:38,348 and try to blame it on this famous code killer 508 00:26:38,390 --> 00:26:40,934 had all the information he needed. 509 00:26:40,975 --> 00:26:42,435 I mean, he's had eight weeks to practice 510 00:26:42,477 --> 00:26:44,688 imitating the handwriting in the letters 511 00:26:44,729 --> 00:26:46,231 that were published in the paper. 512 00:26:46,272 --> 00:26:49,484 He's had eight weeks to sew a circled crosshair symbol 513 00:26:49,526 --> 00:26:50,860 onto his costume. 514 00:26:53,113 --> 00:26:56,908 Nock: Professor Horan isn't alone in his skepticism here. 515 00:26:56,950 --> 00:26:58,660 One of the original investigators, 516 00:26:58,702 --> 00:27:02,080 Napa County Sheriff's Department Detective Ken Narlow, 517 00:27:02,122 --> 00:27:05,500 expressed bewilderment at Zodiac's use of a costume, 518 00:27:05,542 --> 00:27:08,962 as he told filmmakers in the 2007 documentary, 519 00:27:09,004 --> 00:27:11,548 "This is the Zodiac Speaking." 520 00:27:11,589 --> 00:27:13,591 One thing that's baffling is 521 00:27:13,633 --> 00:27:14,843 if you're going to kill somebody, 522 00:27:14,884 --> 00:27:16,052 you normally don't wear a mask 523 00:27:16,094 --> 00:27:17,762 because you got it in your own mind 524 00:27:17,804 --> 00:27:19,097 you're gonna kill them. 525 00:27:19,139 --> 00:27:20,724 So why do you have to hide your identity? 526 00:27:20,765 --> 00:27:24,769 So that's always been a puzzling matter in this case. 527 00:27:24,811 --> 00:27:28,857 Why did the Zodiac go through such a effort 528 00:27:28,898 --> 00:27:32,152 to make this mask to horrify people 529 00:27:32,193 --> 00:27:33,737 if he knew he was gonna kill them? 530 00:27:33,778 --> 00:27:40,452 ** 531 00:27:40,493 --> 00:27:43,913 There's a theory that perhaps this is more than one attacker 532 00:27:43,955 --> 00:27:45,707 claiming to be the Zodiac Killer. 533 00:27:45,749 --> 00:27:49,502 Copycats are relatively rare, but they can happen 534 00:27:49,544 --> 00:27:51,129 because another criminal 535 00:27:51,171 --> 00:27:53,340 is trying to get away with their crimes 536 00:27:53,381 --> 00:27:55,925 and try to hide it under somebody else's persona 537 00:27:55,967 --> 00:27:58,428 so that they're less likely to be caught. 538 00:27:58,470 --> 00:28:01,181 But oftentimes we do see serial killers change course 539 00:28:01,222 --> 00:28:04,267 because they get bored of the first type of killing. 540 00:28:04,309 --> 00:28:07,562 And in order to get the same kind of high from that thrill 541 00:28:07,604 --> 00:28:09,230 that they get from killing, 542 00:28:09,272 --> 00:28:11,149 they have to change the way that they're attacking a victim, 543 00:28:11,191 --> 00:28:12,901 maybe even make it harder for themselves 544 00:28:12,942 --> 00:28:15,945 to get out or get away. 545 00:28:15,987 --> 00:28:19,657 Now, Dr. Ho's point about a change in modus operandi 546 00:28:19,699 --> 00:28:21,284 is backed up by fact. 547 00:28:21,326 --> 00:28:24,537 Serial killer Ted Bundy broke into the houses of women 548 00:28:24,579 --> 00:28:26,164 in his first two attacks, 549 00:28:26,206 --> 00:28:27,832 but then he changed his MO 550 00:28:27,874 --> 00:28:29,542 and lured women into his car. 551 00:28:29,584 --> 00:28:33,505 Four years later, he went back to breaking and entering. 552 00:28:33,546 --> 00:28:34,881 But maybe the best example 553 00:28:34,923 --> 00:28:37,050 is the case of the Sunday Morning Slasher, 554 00:28:37,092 --> 00:28:38,927 Carl Eugene Watts -- 555 00:28:38,968 --> 00:28:40,887 one of the most prolific serial killers 556 00:28:40,929 --> 00:28:42,263 in American history. 557 00:28:42,305 --> 00:28:43,640 If you look at his crimes, 558 00:28:43,682 --> 00:28:46,142 he was constantly changing his MOs, 559 00:28:46,184 --> 00:28:48,353 though it's impossible to know if he was looking to keep 560 00:28:48,395 --> 00:28:52,190 the thrill of killing going by finding new ways to kill 561 00:28:52,232 --> 00:28:54,901 or whether he was just trying to perfect his MO. 562 00:28:56,861 --> 00:28:58,988 So if you ultimately are right 563 00:28:59,030 --> 00:29:01,199 and this was the work of a copycat killer, 564 00:29:01,241 --> 00:29:04,285 who's your primary suspect for the Lake Berryessa killing? 565 00:29:04,327 --> 00:29:06,996 Your first two suspects in a murder investigation 566 00:29:07,038 --> 00:29:10,375 are the last person to see the victim alive 567 00:29:10,417 --> 00:29:13,628 and the person who reported finding the body. 568 00:29:13,670 --> 00:29:16,840 Now, there is a person we know was present 569 00:29:16,881 --> 00:29:18,883 at the crime scene that day. 570 00:29:18,925 --> 00:29:22,512 We know he followed the victims to where they parked their car. 571 00:29:22,554 --> 00:29:26,599 We know that he tampered with evidence at the crime scene. 572 00:29:26,641 --> 00:29:29,102 And then he happens to match the description 573 00:29:29,144 --> 00:29:31,479 of the killer pretty closely. 574 00:29:31,521 --> 00:29:35,233 Bryan Hartnell said that his first impression of this man 575 00:29:35,275 --> 00:29:37,652 was that the killer had come back. 576 00:29:37,694 --> 00:29:41,448 That turned out to be park ranger Dennis Land. 577 00:29:41,489 --> 00:29:46,953 ** 578 00:29:49,914 --> 00:29:56,046 ** 579 00:29:56,087 --> 00:29:58,757 Beeson: After the attack of Bryan Hartnell 580 00:29:58,798 --> 00:30:00,884 and Cecelia Shepard, the police are called. 581 00:30:00,925 --> 00:30:03,803 They show up to the crime scene and the police say, 582 00:30:03,845 --> 00:30:05,263 "Where is the crime scene?" 583 00:30:05,305 --> 00:30:06,806 And they're like, "We don't know." 584 00:30:06,848 --> 00:30:08,808 The park ranger, Dennis Land, removed the crime scene, 585 00:30:08,850 --> 00:30:13,980 which was a blanket with some of their items on the blanket. 586 00:30:14,022 --> 00:30:15,106 Dennis Land had taken that with him 587 00:30:15,148 --> 00:30:17,942 back to the park ranger station. 588 00:30:17,984 --> 00:30:20,362 As a professional investigator, 589 00:30:20,403 --> 00:30:24,240 I can't explain why any trained officer 590 00:30:24,282 --> 00:30:27,118 would touch a crime scene. 591 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,245 You don't ever touch a crime scene 592 00:30:29,287 --> 00:30:32,707 because what you're doing is implicating yourself. 593 00:30:36,711 --> 00:30:40,840 Nock: Park ranger Dennis Land collected up the crime scene 594 00:30:40,882 --> 00:30:42,217 and then put it into a box 595 00:30:42,258 --> 00:30:44,302 and almost like presented it to the sheriff. 596 00:30:44,344 --> 00:30:48,223 Is that -- Is that accurate? 597 00:30:48,264 --> 00:30:51,142 That is pretty ac-- 598 00:30:51,184 --> 00:30:55,313 I don't know who gathered it up exactly, 599 00:30:55,355 --> 00:30:59,526 but somebody did gather it up and they did put it into a box 600 00:30:59,567 --> 00:31:05,532 and that box was turned over to the detective bureau. 601 00:31:05,573 --> 00:31:08,702 Nock: It's a moment the original detective recounted 602 00:31:08,743 --> 00:31:10,954 in the 2007 documentary, 603 00:31:10,995 --> 00:31:12,622 "This is the Zodiac Speaking." 604 00:31:12,664 --> 00:31:14,624 It didn't really make me too happy at the time 605 00:31:14,666 --> 00:31:16,710 because I couldn't actually go to the crime scene 606 00:31:16,751 --> 00:31:20,547 because someone, thinking they were doing the good -- 607 00:31:20,588 --> 00:31:22,882 the good thing and the right thing by protecting it, 608 00:31:22,924 --> 00:31:26,553 actually bundled up the blanket and the clothing and stuff 609 00:31:26,594 --> 00:31:30,265 that was there and -- and took it into his custody 610 00:31:30,306 --> 00:31:33,435 at Berryessa Lake Park headquarters. 611 00:31:33,476 --> 00:31:35,395 He thought at the time he was doing a very good thing, 612 00:31:35,437 --> 00:31:38,356 but at the same time, it took us away from the opportunity 613 00:31:38,398 --> 00:31:40,191 to actually view the crime scene. 614 00:31:40,233 --> 00:31:42,736 So put it in a few simple words, 615 00:31:42,777 --> 00:31:44,738 there wasn't really a crime scene to view. 616 00:31:44,779 --> 00:31:45,864 [ Chuckles ] 617 00:31:47,782 --> 00:31:50,326 Thomas, it's clear that Dennis Land 618 00:31:50,368 --> 00:31:52,328 compromised the crime scene, 619 00:31:52,370 --> 00:31:53,955 much to the chagrin of these investigators. 620 00:31:53,997 --> 00:31:57,584 But you also mentioned something else that piqued my interest. 621 00:31:57,625 --> 00:31:59,753 What else makes you believe he could be the killer? 622 00:31:59,794 --> 00:32:03,590 When you look at the log of the radio dispatcher 623 00:32:03,631 --> 00:32:06,760 at the park ranger station and records of calls 624 00:32:06,801 --> 00:32:09,554 between the station and Dennis Land, 625 00:32:09,596 --> 00:32:13,475 at 6:13 p.m., he radioed in to the dispatcher 626 00:32:13,516 --> 00:32:15,101 that he was going to go 10-7. 627 00:32:15,143 --> 00:32:18,605 He was gonna go out of radio contact and go check the marina. 628 00:32:18,646 --> 00:32:21,191 And 10-8 would mean that he was back in radio contact, 629 00:32:21,232 --> 00:32:22,609 which is procedure. 630 00:32:22,650 --> 00:32:24,652 But Land never radios a 10-8. 631 00:32:24,694 --> 00:32:27,655 So there's a missing time gap of roughly 47 minutes 632 00:32:27,697 --> 00:32:30,617 until they get a report of the stabbing at 7:00 p.m. 633 00:32:30,658 --> 00:32:32,452 And if you look at the total amount of time 634 00:32:32,494 --> 00:32:34,329 that he's out of radio contact, 635 00:32:34,371 --> 00:32:37,707 the killer appears, he attacks them, he leaves. 636 00:32:37,749 --> 00:32:40,251 That's pretty much precisely the time 637 00:32:40,293 --> 00:32:44,339 that Dennis Land was out of radio contact. 638 00:32:44,381 --> 00:32:46,174 Thomas, let's play out your theory. 639 00:32:46,216 --> 00:32:48,301 If Dennis Land is the killer, 640 00:32:48,343 --> 00:32:50,679 did he even have the wherewithal to do this? 641 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:51,721 Absolutely. 642 00:32:51,763 --> 00:32:54,015 He tampered with the crime scene. 643 00:32:54,057 --> 00:32:57,143 He had his associate's degree in criminal justice 644 00:32:57,185 --> 00:32:59,187 and he had eight years experience 645 00:32:59,229 --> 00:33:00,647 as a military policeman. 646 00:33:00,689 --> 00:33:05,151 So Dennis Land really knew better. 647 00:33:05,193 --> 00:33:06,528 What kind of guy was Dennis Land? 648 00:33:06,569 --> 00:33:10,031 Honest as a day is long. Honest as the day is long. 649 00:33:10,073 --> 00:33:12,992 Would bend over backwards to help anybody with anything. 650 00:33:13,034 --> 00:33:16,079 He was a good man. 651 00:33:16,121 --> 00:33:18,248 I just want to say this to you. 652 00:33:18,289 --> 00:33:19,791 You should be very careful 653 00:33:19,833 --> 00:33:22,877 when Thomas Horan says that certain things happened. 654 00:33:22,919 --> 00:33:27,424 Thomas Horan claims that Dennis Land was under investigation. 655 00:33:27,465 --> 00:33:29,801 There's absolutely no credible evidence 656 00:33:29,843 --> 00:33:33,805 that Dennis Land was involved in the crime at all. 657 00:33:35,765 --> 00:33:38,685 No other police officer in any of the Zodiac murder cases 658 00:33:38,727 --> 00:33:43,189 was asked to swear out a formal affidavit under oath. 659 00:33:43,231 --> 00:33:45,942 Only Dennis Land. 660 00:33:45,984 --> 00:33:48,403 He's the only person who was known to be at the lake 661 00:33:48,445 --> 00:33:51,698 that day who's not accounted for. 662 00:33:51,740 --> 00:33:53,450 Nock: You know, there's simply no way to know 663 00:33:53,491 --> 00:33:55,952 if Dennis Land was connected. 664 00:33:55,994 --> 00:33:57,579 But I'll go back to this. 665 00:33:57,620 --> 00:33:59,581 This is the Identi-Kit of 666 00:33:59,622 --> 00:34:01,458 the man both Cecelia described 667 00:34:01,499 --> 00:34:03,835 and Linda Jensen, the witness, saw. 668 00:34:03,877 --> 00:34:07,380 And this is what makes the Zodiac cold case so fascinating, 669 00:34:07,422 --> 00:34:10,925 so infuriating and so curious to so many. 670 00:34:10,967 --> 00:34:14,346 Thomas brings up good convincing points about Land, 671 00:34:14,387 --> 00:34:17,098 but it appears obvious that these two images, 672 00:34:17,140 --> 00:34:18,933 they don't look alike. 673 00:34:21,436 --> 00:34:23,229 After the murder at Lake Berryessa, 674 00:34:23,271 --> 00:34:24,773 no one was arrested, 675 00:34:24,814 --> 00:34:27,484 but the investigation continued on 676 00:34:27,525 --> 00:34:29,611 and the authorities now felt certain 677 00:34:29,652 --> 00:34:32,864 that this attack was not an isolated incident. 678 00:34:35,950 --> 00:34:37,369 Man: There have been three slayings 679 00:34:37,410 --> 00:34:38,870 in the Vallejo area in the past year, 680 00:34:38,912 --> 00:34:41,414 and activities at the sheriff's office today 681 00:34:41,456 --> 00:34:44,250 were centered around linking the cases. 682 00:34:44,292 --> 00:34:47,253 Because of the writing on the car door at Lake Berryessa 683 00:34:47,295 --> 00:34:50,382 and because of its proximity to the murders in Solano County, 684 00:34:50,423 --> 00:34:52,092 which is the county next door, 685 00:34:52,133 --> 00:34:55,011 the authorities begin to connect all three crimes. 686 00:34:55,053 --> 00:34:56,012 Horan: That's right. 687 00:34:56,054 --> 00:34:57,222 But the biggest hole 688 00:34:57,263 --> 00:34:58,723 in the whole Zodiac theory of all 689 00:34:58,765 --> 00:35:01,184 is that where's the Zodiac letter about the attack 690 00:35:01,226 --> 00:35:02,268 at Lake Berryessa? 691 00:35:02,310 --> 00:35:04,771 Where is it? 692 00:35:04,813 --> 00:35:06,773 Nock: Now, there wasn't a letter sent 693 00:35:06,815 --> 00:35:08,608 after the attack at the lake. 694 00:35:08,650 --> 00:35:11,319 It's not until the Paul Stine murder in San Francisco, 695 00:35:11,361 --> 00:35:13,363 which comes more than two weeks later, 696 00:35:13,405 --> 00:35:16,074 that a flurry of letters arrives again 697 00:35:16,116 --> 00:35:19,619 and apparently doesn't stop until July 1974. 698 00:35:19,661 --> 00:35:24,874 28 more letters come after the Paul Stine murder. 699 00:35:24,916 --> 00:35:26,376 And it's these 28 700 00:35:26,418 --> 00:35:28,962 that Professor Horan has an issue with. 701 00:35:29,004 --> 00:35:33,383 In my opinion, the only really authentic Zodiac letters 702 00:35:33,425 --> 00:35:34,718 are the first three letters 703 00:35:34,759 --> 00:35:37,846 that were mailed to the papers with the code. 704 00:35:37,887 --> 00:35:40,807 Then immediately there was a follow up letter. 705 00:35:40,849 --> 00:35:44,519 After that, there were serious doubts. 706 00:35:44,561 --> 00:35:47,689 Nock: So Professor Horan believes that the first four letters 707 00:35:47,731 --> 00:35:50,442 that arrived after the so-called second Zodiac murder 708 00:35:50,483 --> 00:35:51,985 could be legitimate. 709 00:35:52,027 --> 00:35:53,611 But the remaining 28 that arrived 710 00:35:53,653 --> 00:35:56,781 after the Paul Stine murders are not. 711 00:35:56,823 --> 00:36:00,326 It's these 32 letters that I sent to the French experts. 712 00:36:00,368 --> 00:36:04,956 ** 713 00:36:04,998 --> 00:36:07,959 The men specialize in computational linguistics, 714 00:36:08,001 --> 00:36:10,712 meaning they apply computer science to the analysis 715 00:36:10,754 --> 00:36:13,256 and synthesis of language and speech, 716 00:36:13,298 --> 00:36:15,467 and they run it through a customized artificial 717 00:36:15,508 --> 00:36:17,010 intelligence model. 718 00:36:17,052 --> 00:36:20,347 Computational linguistics could offer empirical evidence 719 00:36:20,388 --> 00:36:22,182 to support Thomas's claims. 720 00:36:22,223 --> 00:36:24,809 Now, as far as we know, this is the first time 721 00:36:24,851 --> 00:36:28,438 the 32 letters have ever been analyzed in this way. 722 00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:32,984 [ Ringing, computer chimes ] 723 00:36:33,026 --> 00:36:34,944 Hi, Florian. Hi, Jean-Baptiste. 724 00:36:34,986 --> 00:36:36,821 Hi, Andrew. Cafiero: Hi, Andrew. 725 00:36:36,863 --> 00:36:39,824 It's been a few weeks since I sent you the Zodiac letters, 726 00:36:39,866 --> 00:36:43,411 and I'm dying to find out what you've discovered. 727 00:36:57,926 --> 00:37:00,637 ** 728 00:37:06,893 --> 00:37:09,104 Nock: Gentlemen, thank you very much for your time. 729 00:37:09,145 --> 00:37:11,940 So, I would like to start by explaining what you're doing 730 00:37:11,981 --> 00:37:15,068 with computational linguistics and stylometry 731 00:37:15,110 --> 00:37:18,196 and how it differs from handwriting analysis. 732 00:38:09,205 --> 00:38:11,916 Is that something that's easily changeable? 733 00:38:37,275 --> 00:38:39,694 Okay, that's interesting because what we're trying to 734 00:38:39,736 --> 00:38:43,698 understand about these letters is not so much who wrote them, 735 00:38:43,740 --> 00:38:45,825 but whether or not one single person 736 00:38:45,867 --> 00:38:47,619 wrote all of those letters 737 00:38:47,660 --> 00:38:49,704 or if there's multiple letter writers. 738 00:38:49,746 --> 00:38:50,955 And so if you see a change 739 00:38:50,997 --> 00:38:53,083 in this individual stylistic genome, 740 00:38:53,124 --> 00:38:57,295 as you call it, at some point in the sequence of the 32 letters, 741 00:38:57,337 --> 00:38:58,755 then that could indicate 742 00:38:58,797 --> 00:39:01,216 that there's more than one letter writer, right? 743 00:39:02,550 --> 00:39:05,970 And so just so I understand what you're doing here, 744 00:39:06,012 --> 00:39:08,765 you know, can we walk away with a certainty of the results 745 00:39:08,807 --> 00:39:10,600 or the findings, whatever they are, 746 00:39:10,642 --> 00:39:12,977 that they're gonna be 100% accurate? 747 00:39:27,075 --> 00:39:28,243 Okay. 748 00:39:36,668 --> 00:39:38,128 Okay, understood. 749 00:39:38,169 --> 00:39:39,754 So when you're looking at the Zodiac letters, 750 00:39:39,796 --> 00:39:42,257 what's the first step in your process? 751 00:40:36,936 --> 00:40:39,022 Okay. Let me just stop you for a second. 752 00:40:39,064 --> 00:40:41,816 You said that at a certain point you see a subtle change. 753 00:40:41,858 --> 00:40:43,860 When is that point? 754 00:41:16,434 --> 00:41:19,187 But that subtle change in style, couldn't that be purposeful? 755 00:41:19,229 --> 00:41:20,772 Couldn't it be intentional 756 00:41:20,814 --> 00:41:23,066 to kind of throw off the investigators? 757 00:41:42,544 --> 00:41:43,962 Okay. 758 00:41:50,635 --> 00:41:52,595 Okay. Just let me summarize 759 00:41:52,637 --> 00:41:54,347 because you're seeing noticeable changes 760 00:41:54,389 --> 00:41:57,100 in the function words from the four letters 761 00:41:57,142 --> 00:41:59,144 before Paul Stine's murder 762 00:41:59,185 --> 00:42:02,188 to the 28 letters after the Paul Stine murder. 763 00:42:02,230 --> 00:42:05,483 You're able to conclude that there is likely a change 764 00:42:05,525 --> 00:42:06,985 in the letter writer? 765 00:42:08,111 --> 00:42:09,779 That is likely more than one person 766 00:42:09,821 --> 00:42:12,824 writing these letters -- at least two? 767 00:42:28,882 --> 00:42:30,675 Okay. Wow. 768 00:42:30,717 --> 00:42:33,470 That's -- I think that's really significant that 769 00:42:33,511 --> 00:42:36,931 that's a possibility, because a lot of researchers, 770 00:42:36,973 --> 00:42:39,476 a lot of Zodiac researchers and detectives, 771 00:42:39,517 --> 00:42:43,355 they all believe that these letters are from one person. 772 00:43:10,548 --> 00:43:13,426 ** 773 00:43:16,888 --> 00:43:26,439 ** 774 00:43:26,481 --> 00:43:35,407 ** 775 00:43:35,448 --> 00:43:39,452 Butterfield: Approximately two weeks after the attack at Lake Berryessa, 776 00:43:39,494 --> 00:43:44,833 someone hailed a cab in San Francisco. 777 00:43:44,874 --> 00:43:46,710 29-year-old cab driver Paul Stine 778 00:43:46,751 --> 00:43:50,130 apparently picked up a fare somewhere near the intersection 779 00:43:50,171 --> 00:43:53,925 of Mason and Geary in San Francisco. 780 00:43:53,967 --> 00:43:57,637 The passenger allegedly directed him to an intersection 781 00:43:57,679 --> 00:44:01,808 at Washington and Maple Streets, 782 00:44:01,850 --> 00:44:04,728 which was in an upscale residential neighborhood 783 00:44:04,769 --> 00:44:06,646 known as Presidio Heights. 784 00:44:06,688 --> 00:44:15,447 ** 785 00:44:15,488 --> 00:44:23,997 ** 786 00:44:24,039 --> 00:44:27,167 [ Gunshot fires ] 787 00:44:27,208 --> 00:44:28,918 [ Engine idling ] 788 00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:30,378 [ Car door opens ] 789 00:44:33,798 --> 00:44:37,510 Some kids who were in a house across the street heard a noise 790 00:44:37,552 --> 00:44:41,139 or saw something suspicious which alerted them, 791 00:44:41,181 --> 00:44:42,849 and they looked outside and saw a man 792 00:44:42,891 --> 00:44:47,270 inside the cab handling Paul Stine's body. 793 00:44:49,564 --> 00:44:54,402 The man had apparently shot Paul Stine once in the head. 794 00:44:56,571 --> 00:44:59,282 The witnesses watched him get out of the cab 795 00:44:59,324 --> 00:45:02,035 and walk around to the driver's side 796 00:45:02,077 --> 00:45:04,204 with a piece of cloth in his hand. 797 00:45:04,245 --> 00:45:06,206 And he appeared to be wiping down 798 00:45:06,247 --> 00:45:10,543 that side of the cab on the driver's side. 799 00:45:10,585 --> 00:45:13,963 The man then turned, went around the cab 800 00:45:14,005 --> 00:45:16,216 and walked north on Cherry Street. 801 00:45:16,257 --> 00:45:23,014 ** 802 00:45:23,056 --> 00:45:25,350 The kids called the police. 803 00:45:25,392 --> 00:45:28,436 We don't know exactly what happened or why, 804 00:45:28,478 --> 00:45:31,731 but at a certain point, their description of the killer 805 00:45:31,773 --> 00:45:35,568 was broadcast incorrectly to responding officers 806 00:45:35,610 --> 00:45:39,239 as a Black man instead of a white man. 807 00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:41,449 It's possible that when they were describing 808 00:45:41,491 --> 00:45:44,077 the killer's clothing as dark or black, 809 00:45:44,119 --> 00:45:48,748 that that was misunderstood as the race of the killer. 810 00:45:48,790 --> 00:45:52,460 Whatever happened, the killer went north on Cherry Street 811 00:45:52,502 --> 00:45:55,088 and apparently turned east on Jackson Street, 812 00:45:55,130 --> 00:45:58,925 one block further north. 813 00:45:58,967 --> 00:46:00,802 Falzon: There was a white man 814 00:46:00,844 --> 00:46:04,347 seen walking away from the crime scene. 815 00:46:04,389 --> 00:46:09,269 In fact, responding officers stopped him. 816 00:46:09,310 --> 00:46:12,605 There was an officer named Donald Fouke 817 00:46:12,647 --> 00:46:14,941 who was with his partner that night, Eric Zelms, 818 00:46:14,983 --> 00:46:16,484 and they believed they saw the man 819 00:46:16,526 --> 00:46:18,903 walking in the Presidio that night, 820 00:46:18,945 --> 00:46:21,281 and they're pretty sure, just based on where Stine was shot, 821 00:46:21,322 --> 00:46:23,616 that they did see the attacker. 822 00:46:23,658 --> 00:46:25,493 It's mostly believed that Donald Fouke 823 00:46:25,535 --> 00:46:28,621 did witness the Zodiac Killer that night, 824 00:46:28,663 --> 00:46:34,502 and he described him as a barrel-chested man about 5'10". 825 00:46:34,544 --> 00:46:37,672 He had a blondish colored crew cut 826 00:46:37,714 --> 00:46:41,968 and was wearing what he called an engineer's type boot. 827 00:46:42,010 --> 00:46:43,595 [ Police radio chatter ] 828 00:46:43,636 --> 00:46:46,931 Unfortunately, when they make the stop, 829 00:46:46,973 --> 00:46:48,808 coming over the police radio 830 00:46:48,850 --> 00:46:52,729 is a suspect has been described as a Black male. 831 00:46:52,771 --> 00:46:55,815 So when he said he didn't see anything or hear anything, 832 00:46:55,857 --> 00:46:57,650 they thanked him and he walks away. 833 00:46:57,692 --> 00:47:02,572 They drive off. They later put two and two together. 834 00:47:02,614 --> 00:47:04,240 It wasn't a Black suspect. 835 00:47:04,282 --> 00:47:07,410 It was him, the man that killed Paul Stine 836 00:47:07,452 --> 00:47:09,204 the cabdriver. 837 00:47:09,245 --> 00:47:14,668 ** 838 00:47:14,709 --> 00:47:18,380 Beeson: Because of this screw up with the police dispatch, 839 00:47:18,421 --> 00:47:21,132 they missed a golden opportunity. 840 00:47:21,174 --> 00:47:22,717 He slipped into the darkness, 841 00:47:22,759 --> 00:47:26,554 into the park area after the murder and was never seen again. 842 00:47:26,596 --> 00:47:34,688 ** 843 00:47:34,729 --> 00:47:36,856 The famous Zodiac Killer sketch 844 00:47:36,898 --> 00:47:40,610 comes from the eyewitness accounts from those kids. 845 00:47:40,652 --> 00:47:42,362 That sketch was developed and later 846 00:47:42,404 --> 00:47:45,699 shown to Officer Donald Fouke, who pretty much agreed with it, 847 00:47:45,740 --> 00:47:50,161 said that pretty much looked like the man that he saw. 848 00:47:50,203 --> 00:47:53,581 I think that sketch may be the most accurate portrait 849 00:47:53,623 --> 00:47:55,709 of the Zodiac we'll ever get. 850 00:47:55,750 --> 00:48:01,256 ** 851 00:48:01,297 --> 00:48:03,174 Horan: With the attack at Lake Berryessa 852 00:48:03,216 --> 00:48:04,718 and the shooting in San Francisco, 853 00:48:04,759 --> 00:48:07,345 both sets of investigators think they know 854 00:48:07,387 --> 00:48:08,972 what the attacker looks like, 855 00:48:09,014 --> 00:48:14,394 but clearly these sketches don't appear to be the same person. 856 00:48:14,436 --> 00:48:16,813 So, Thomas, if the sketches of the perpetrator 857 00:48:16,855 --> 00:48:18,273 look nothing alike, 858 00:48:18,314 --> 00:48:20,150 there's got to be other aspects of the murder that match 859 00:48:20,191 --> 00:48:22,986 what happened in the other three Zodiac crimes before this, 860 00:48:23,028 --> 00:48:27,240 leading investigators to think all four crimes are connected. 861 00:48:27,282 --> 00:48:28,742 No. 862 00:48:28,783 --> 00:48:31,369 Here's the funny thing about the Paul Stine murder. 863 00:48:31,411 --> 00:48:33,163 It is totally different from all the other 864 00:48:33,204 --> 00:48:34,622 so-called Zodiac killings. 865 00:48:34,664 --> 00:48:38,251 It's a single man. It's not a couple. 866 00:48:38,293 --> 00:48:40,879 This is obviously not a lovers' lane. 867 00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:43,798 They didn't meet randomly at the crime scene. 868 00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:47,135 The victim actually drove the killer to the crime scene. 869 00:48:47,177 --> 00:48:51,431 The motive seems to be more like an assassination. 870 00:48:51,473 --> 00:48:53,183 It's a similar weapon to the shooting 871 00:48:53,224 --> 00:48:54,768 at Blue Rock Springs Park. 872 00:48:54,809 --> 00:48:57,896 It is a .9 millimeter handgun. 873 00:48:57,937 --> 00:49:03,443 It's a very cold, calculating, almost professional killer. 874 00:49:03,485 --> 00:49:05,653 I mean, we don't see any of this behavior 875 00:49:05,695 --> 00:49:06,905 with the other Zodiac crimes, 876 00:49:06,946 --> 00:49:08,531 especially the first two shootings. 877 00:49:08,573 --> 00:49:11,951 It's show up, bang, bang, bang, get the heck out. 878 00:49:11,993 --> 00:49:15,455 All of these things just seem to be completely different. 879 00:49:19,584 --> 00:49:23,296 So did San Francisco PD ever investigate Paul Stine? 880 00:49:23,338 --> 00:49:25,090 Beeson: Yes, and nothing ever came of it. 881 00:49:25,131 --> 00:49:28,343 I was very fortunate to get to interview somebody 882 00:49:28,385 --> 00:49:29,886 that knew Paul Stine really well, 883 00:49:29,928 --> 00:49:32,555 and he said, "I knew Paul Stine, and I could tell you 884 00:49:32,597 --> 00:49:36,267 that he is actually the sweetest man I ever knew. 885 00:49:36,309 --> 00:49:40,980 He was driving a cab, but he had a lot further aspirations." 886 00:49:41,022 --> 00:49:42,732 He was a newlywed. 887 00:49:42,774 --> 00:49:44,651 It was just extremely tragic 888 00:49:44,693 --> 00:49:46,903 that that would happen to him like it did. 889 00:49:46,945 --> 00:49:49,364 So you don't think that he had any enemies? 890 00:49:49,406 --> 00:49:53,284 You think it was just a random killing as a taxi driver? 891 00:49:53,326 --> 00:49:56,871 I think the Paul Stine murder was completely random. 892 00:49:56,913 --> 00:49:58,331 I've never seen anything credible 893 00:49:58,373 --> 00:50:00,709 to make me think that he was targeted. 894 00:50:02,877 --> 00:50:05,005 Nock: And so for those reasons, 895 00:50:05,046 --> 00:50:08,258 along with the fact that San Francisco is 31 miles away 896 00:50:08,299 --> 00:50:12,721 from Vallejo and 71 miles away from Lake Berryessa, 897 00:50:12,762 --> 00:50:15,598 law enforcement at the time figured Paul Stine's murder 898 00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:18,393 was just another routine robbery and murder of a cabbie. 899 00:50:18,435 --> 00:50:22,856 No one suspected this crime might be related to the Zodiac. 900 00:50:22,897 --> 00:50:27,444 That is until a few days later, on October 13th. 901 00:50:29,571 --> 00:50:32,073 Two days after the murder of Paul Stine, 902 00:50:32,115 --> 00:50:35,118 a letter arrived at the San Francisco Chronicle 903 00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:36,745 that said... 904 00:50:36,786 --> 00:50:39,289 Falzon: "This is the Zodiac speaking. 905 00:50:39,330 --> 00:50:42,292 I am the murderer of the taxi driver 906 00:50:42,334 --> 00:50:47,547 over by Washington Street and Maple Street last night." 907 00:50:49,382 --> 00:50:52,218 Butterfield: Obviously, the fact that the killer started killing 908 00:50:52,260 --> 00:50:53,762 in San Francisco 909 00:50:53,803 --> 00:50:56,097 in a wealthy, upscale neighborhood 910 00:50:56,139 --> 00:50:58,933 changed the narrative of this case. 911 00:50:58,975 --> 00:51:01,061 But we have to remember also that in the letter 912 00:51:01,102 --> 00:51:03,980 where he took credit for the murder of Paul Stine, 913 00:51:04,022 --> 00:51:07,650 he threatened to attack a school bus full of children, 914 00:51:07,692 --> 00:51:12,113 and that escalated things dramatically. 915 00:51:12,155 --> 00:51:14,741 Lee: "Schoolchildren make fine targets. 916 00:51:14,783 --> 00:51:18,953 I think I shall wipe out a school bus some morning." 917 00:51:18,995 --> 00:51:23,500 Now there's a visible rise of adrenalin in the newsroom. 918 00:51:23,541 --> 00:51:25,960 Nobody's ever seen anything quite like it. 919 00:51:26,002 --> 00:51:27,754 Beeson: When the Zodiac wrote that letter, 920 00:51:27,796 --> 00:51:31,383 it was the pinnacle of fear in the city of San Francisco 921 00:51:31,424 --> 00:51:34,719 because they absolutely believed he was gonna act on this 922 00:51:34,761 --> 00:51:38,056 and actually start shooting schoolchildren. 923 00:51:38,098 --> 00:51:39,641 Falzon: How scary. 924 00:51:39,683 --> 00:51:44,771 It was threats that needed to be followed up, taken seriously. 925 00:51:44,813 --> 00:51:46,606 Man: Police units from various agencies 926 00:51:46,648 --> 00:51:48,358 using marked and unmarked cars 927 00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:52,779 followed busses on their runs to and from schools. 928 00:51:52,821 --> 00:51:55,990 After that, the hunt for the Zodiac increased. 929 00:51:56,032 --> 00:51:59,619 There were many more people involved looking for him, 930 00:51:59,661 --> 00:52:02,789 and he became a villain that had to be stopped. 931 00:52:06,126 --> 00:52:09,587 So, Thomas, in the middle of all this mass hysteria 932 00:52:09,629 --> 00:52:11,589 with everyone hunting the Zodiac Killer, 933 00:52:11,631 --> 00:52:13,675 the police also share information 934 00:52:13,717 --> 00:52:16,219 that this letter contains something unique. 935 00:52:16,261 --> 00:52:17,470 What was it? 936 00:52:17,512 --> 00:52:18,930 This particular letter, 937 00:52:18,972 --> 00:52:21,474 he's including a piece of physical evidence 938 00:52:21,516 --> 00:52:23,309 that seems incontrovertible. 939 00:52:23,351 --> 00:52:27,355 It turned out to be a piece of Paul Stine's bloodstained shirt. 940 00:52:27,397 --> 00:52:32,736 ** 941 00:52:36,740 --> 00:52:42,078 ** 942 00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:44,539 Horan: The Paul Stine murder is totally different 943 00:52:44,581 --> 00:52:47,959 from all the other Zodiac killings. 944 00:52:48,001 --> 00:52:51,463 You talk about a murder with the MO and victim profile 945 00:52:51,504 --> 00:52:52,881 are totally different. 946 00:52:52,922 --> 00:52:55,633 It's a single man. It's not a couple. 947 00:52:55,675 --> 00:52:58,720 This is obviously not a lovers' lane. 948 00:52:58,762 --> 00:53:00,889 So you would think there's no connection 949 00:53:00,930 --> 00:53:02,974 to these murders whatsoever. 950 00:53:03,016 --> 00:53:06,603 But this time he includes a physical piece of evidence 951 00:53:06,644 --> 00:53:08,146 to prove that he was there -- 952 00:53:08,188 --> 00:53:14,819 a bloody piece of cloth torn off Paul Stine's shirt. 953 00:53:14,861 --> 00:53:17,072 There's a lot of speculation and debate 954 00:53:17,113 --> 00:53:19,908 about which Zodiac letters are authentic, 955 00:53:19,949 --> 00:53:21,910 which are possible forgeries. 956 00:53:21,951 --> 00:53:23,745 But there are certain letters 957 00:53:23,787 --> 00:53:26,873 which we accept as being from the Zodiac, 958 00:53:26,915 --> 00:53:29,668 and those are primarily the ones that were sent 959 00:53:29,709 --> 00:53:33,838 with a piece of a victim's clothing. 960 00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:37,384 There was the first letter sent in October of 1969, 961 00:53:37,425 --> 00:53:42,097 which contained a bloodstained piece of the cab driver's shirt. 962 00:53:42,138 --> 00:53:43,765 And then there were two other letters 963 00:53:43,807 --> 00:53:46,601 that were accompanied by pieces of that shirt. 964 00:53:46,643 --> 00:53:48,603 Horan: This letter came into the Chronicle, 965 00:53:48,645 --> 00:53:50,438 and the Chroniclecalled the police and said, 966 00:53:50,480 --> 00:53:53,108 "This guy claims here's a piece of the victim's shirt." 967 00:53:53,149 --> 00:53:57,904 And then the police lab realizes that it is a piece of the shirt. 968 00:53:57,946 --> 00:53:59,406 Man: To prove his authenticity, 969 00:53:59,447 --> 00:54:02,367 the Zodiac sent along this time, as he did before, 970 00:54:02,409 --> 00:54:06,204 a piece of the shirt belonging to the cab driver he murdered. 971 00:54:06,246 --> 00:54:10,625 Police don't doubt that the letter writer is the killer. 972 00:54:10,667 --> 00:54:12,377 Nock: So here's where we are. 973 00:54:12,419 --> 00:54:16,047 Again, Horan's theory is that 28 of the letters are different 974 00:54:16,089 --> 00:54:20,135 from the four that arrived before the Paul Stine letters. 975 00:54:20,176 --> 00:54:22,220 And our linguistics experts have doubts 976 00:54:22,262 --> 00:54:26,725 that the letters are written by one person. 977 00:54:26,766 --> 00:54:29,436 Nock: So this is one of the things that leaps out to me 978 00:54:29,477 --> 00:54:31,312 that it could be different killers, 979 00:54:31,354 --> 00:54:34,357 because in the Paul Stine case, he takes part of the shirt. 980 00:54:34,399 --> 00:54:37,193 He doesn't seem to take trophies in any of the other crimes. 981 00:54:37,235 --> 00:54:40,947 So now he decides to take a trophy? 982 00:54:40,989 --> 00:54:43,241 Ho: It could also still signify the same person. 983 00:54:43,283 --> 00:54:47,412 And the reason is people can change their ideas 984 00:54:47,454 --> 00:54:49,914 about what might be exciting to do. 985 00:54:49,956 --> 00:54:51,458 I also think that he understood 986 00:54:51,499 --> 00:54:53,209 that as these crimes were piling up, 987 00:54:53,251 --> 00:54:55,253 he's gonna have to prove to the press 988 00:54:55,295 --> 00:55:00,925 and to police and detectives that he is who he says he is. 989 00:55:00,967 --> 00:55:03,261 Why would he go out of his way to do that 990 00:55:03,303 --> 00:55:07,182 when he didn't do that in any of the other murders? 991 00:55:07,223 --> 00:55:09,976 Why does he think he needs to do this? 992 00:55:10,018 --> 00:55:11,603 And if he's interested in clothing, 993 00:55:11,644 --> 00:55:15,065 why wouldn't he take some of Cecelia Shepard's clothing? 994 00:55:15,106 --> 00:55:19,069 Why would he not do this at Lake Berryessa? 995 00:55:20,362 --> 00:55:22,238 You know, it's interesting in the police report 996 00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:25,241 for David Faraday's murder the night of the first murder, 997 00:55:25,283 --> 00:55:28,161 they make a big point of him holding this class ring. 998 00:55:28,203 --> 00:55:29,496 Right. 999 00:55:29,537 --> 00:55:31,539 You would think that would be an obvious trophy 1000 00:55:31,581 --> 00:55:33,124 for a serial killer to take 1001 00:55:33,166 --> 00:55:35,919 and not to leave it there in between his fingers, right? 1002 00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:37,837 Right. It's certainly the kind of trophy 1003 00:55:37,879 --> 00:55:40,465 you'd think a serial killer would take. 1004 00:55:42,509 --> 00:55:44,386 Some people would say the answer is simple -- 1005 00:55:44,427 --> 00:55:47,305 serial killers sometimes change their MO. 1006 00:55:47,347 --> 00:55:49,307 But, Thomas, if you don't believe that he did it 1007 00:55:49,349 --> 00:55:52,060 to prove he was the killer, what's your theory? 1008 00:55:52,102 --> 00:55:54,521 I reviewed that case file, and I discovered 1009 00:55:54,562 --> 00:56:00,318 Paul Stine's car keys and wallet and money were missing. 1010 00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:05,949 And there had been a string of odd cabdriver robberies. 1011 00:56:05,990 --> 00:56:07,909 The cabbie would pick up a fare 1012 00:56:07,951 --> 00:56:12,163 and then the fare would ask to be driven to Presidio Heights, 1013 00:56:12,205 --> 00:56:14,082 very close to where Stine was shot. 1014 00:56:14,124 --> 00:56:17,919 And then he would rob the cabbie and then leave. 1015 00:56:17,961 --> 00:56:19,504 Beeson: When it did happen that evening, 1016 00:56:19,546 --> 00:56:21,339 they absolutely thought it was just another robbery 1017 00:56:21,381 --> 00:56:24,217 because there were robberies going on in San Francisco 1018 00:56:24,259 --> 00:56:26,011 and surrounding areas of cab drivers 1019 00:56:26,052 --> 00:56:28,096 just because they were pretty easy targets 1020 00:56:28,138 --> 00:56:31,016 back in the day, unfortunately. 1021 00:56:31,057 --> 00:56:33,226 But the shirt meant definitively that the person 1022 00:56:33,268 --> 00:56:38,940 sending the letters had access to Paul Stine's shirt. 1023 00:56:38,982 --> 00:56:40,358 Horan: And that is technically true, 1024 00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:44,237 but it's not from that very first rectangle 1025 00:56:44,279 --> 00:56:46,239 that was torn off the shirt by the killer. 1026 00:56:46,281 --> 00:56:49,367 Someone has torn off another piece of shirt. 1027 00:56:49,409 --> 00:56:52,245 You can see that multiple tears. 1028 00:56:52,287 --> 00:56:54,039 And then that piece of shirt 1029 00:56:54,080 --> 00:56:58,251 is mailed with different Zodiac letters or cards. 1030 00:56:58,293 --> 00:57:00,045 So to be clear, Thomas, 1031 00:57:00,086 --> 00:57:01,463 you're suggesting someone other than the killer 1032 00:57:01,504 --> 00:57:04,758 is inserting themselves into this homicide case? 1033 00:57:04,799 --> 00:57:06,384 Yes. Those pieces of shirt 1034 00:57:06,426 --> 00:57:09,929 were taken by someone other than the killer. 1035 00:57:09,971 --> 00:57:14,309 There's more than one person who had access to Paul Stine shirt. 1036 00:57:14,351 --> 00:57:17,979 ** 1037 00:57:22,609 --> 00:57:25,236 ** 1038 00:57:25,278 --> 00:57:27,072 Nock: So what's your theory as to how they got 1039 00:57:27,113 --> 00:57:29,491 ahold of the shirt if it wasn't the killer? 1040 00:57:29,532 --> 00:57:31,993 Who would have access to the crime scene evidence? 1041 00:57:32,035 --> 00:57:35,288 Once the body arrives at the morgue, they undress the body. 1042 00:57:35,330 --> 00:57:37,374 They take all the clothing, which is blood soaked. 1043 00:57:37,415 --> 00:57:40,126 They take it to the crime lab and they spread it out 1044 00:57:40,168 --> 00:57:42,587 for several hours under the heat lamps to dry. 1045 00:57:42,629 --> 00:57:45,256 Anybody who could have gotten into that crime lab -- 1046 00:57:45,298 --> 00:57:47,258 and in those days, reporters had free 1047 00:57:47,300 --> 00:57:49,969 run of the Hall of Justice -- could have gone in there, 1048 00:57:50,011 --> 00:57:52,722 saw a piece of cloth missing from Paul Stine's shirt 1049 00:57:52,764 --> 00:57:55,141 and tore off a couple more pieces of bloodied shirt 1050 00:57:55,183 --> 00:57:58,103 and used them to write Zodiac letters. 1051 00:58:01,439 --> 00:58:03,400 But what's the motivation? 1052 00:58:03,441 --> 00:58:05,610 To prove that the Zodiac was real, 1053 00:58:05,652 --> 00:58:07,278 to keep the story going. 1054 00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:10,532 And the big problem with the serial killer story 1055 00:58:10,573 --> 00:58:13,410 is when the killer is finally caught, the story's over. 1056 00:58:13,451 --> 00:58:16,871 So I think someone was twisting these investigations 1057 00:58:16,913 --> 00:58:20,291 by writing these letters to the newspapers. 1058 00:58:24,045 --> 00:58:25,714 Would anyone but police officers 1059 00:58:25,755 --> 00:58:30,218 have access to the crime lab -- like journalists, for example? 1060 00:58:30,260 --> 00:58:32,762 No journalist would be allowed in there 1061 00:58:32,804 --> 00:58:35,807 under any circumstances. 1062 00:58:35,849 --> 00:58:41,062 Nobody's allowed in that area except the homicide squad, 1063 00:58:41,104 --> 00:58:45,191 the investigating officers, the coroner's people, 1064 00:58:45,233 --> 00:58:47,694 the crime lab, photo lab. 1065 00:58:47,736 --> 00:58:51,322 So Detective Falzon says absolutely impossible 1066 00:58:51,364 --> 00:58:53,491 that someone could have gotten a hold of this 1067 00:58:53,533 --> 00:58:55,869 and tampered with the crime scene evidence. 1068 00:58:55,910 --> 00:58:59,664 I have quite a bit of evidence that it was very, very possible. 1069 00:58:59,706 --> 00:59:02,834 You read the San Francisco Chronicleday by day by day, 1070 00:59:02,876 --> 00:59:06,171 there's a story in there almost every day about corruption 1071 00:59:06,212 --> 00:59:07,630 at San Francisco Police Department, 1072 00:59:07,672 --> 00:59:12,344 including tampering with evidence in homicide cases. 1073 00:59:15,513 --> 00:59:17,599 So I've read that back in the day, 1074 00:59:17,640 --> 00:59:20,935 reporters had much better access to law enforcement 1075 00:59:20,977 --> 00:59:22,103 than they maybe do today. 1076 00:59:22,145 --> 00:59:24,105 Is that true? Jennings: Yes. 1077 00:59:24,147 --> 00:59:26,608 So at that time, late '60s, early '70s, 1078 00:59:26,649 --> 00:59:31,321 police and reporters had a very collaborative relationship, 1079 00:59:31,363 --> 00:59:34,115 and there was a newsroom in the Hall of Justice. 1080 00:59:34,157 --> 00:59:37,619 Reporters would go to cops to try to get inside information 1081 00:59:37,660 --> 00:59:43,208 about a case, make a better story out of it. 1082 00:59:43,249 --> 00:59:46,628 You'd be shocked to learn how often a reporter 1083 00:59:46,670 --> 00:59:49,589 was the one taking down the witness statements. 1084 00:59:49,631 --> 00:59:53,385 Then he would type up the report for the cop 1085 00:59:53,426 --> 00:59:55,345 and be allowed to keep a carbon copy 1086 00:59:55,387 --> 00:59:57,722 and take it back to his newspaper. 1087 00:59:57,764 --> 00:59:59,516 Jennings: So it was very chummy. 1088 00:59:59,557 --> 01:00:04,688 It was a very congenial atmosphere for the most part. 1089 01:00:04,729 --> 01:00:08,900 But I don't imagine ever that some journalist 1090 01:00:08,942 --> 01:00:10,276 wrote a Zodiac letter 1091 01:00:10,318 --> 01:00:12,237 just to make a bigger story out of something. 1092 01:00:12,278 --> 01:00:17,325 ** 1093 01:00:17,367 --> 01:00:19,619 So what happens after these three letters arrive 1094 01:00:19,661 --> 01:00:23,123 with the bloody swatch at the end of 1969? 1095 01:00:23,164 --> 01:00:25,875 Horan: Law enforcement zeroed in on this letter writer 1096 01:00:25,917 --> 01:00:27,460 as the sole killer. 1097 01:00:27,502 --> 01:00:31,256 But consider this -- I can definitely see a change in style 1098 01:00:31,297 --> 01:00:34,009 and a change in personality in these letters. 1099 01:00:34,050 --> 01:00:37,012 The handwriting changes. 1100 01:00:37,053 --> 01:00:39,514 The purpose for writing the letter changes. 1101 01:00:39,556 --> 01:00:42,767 There's no longer any souvenirs, physical evidence. 1102 01:00:42,809 --> 01:00:45,854 There's no longer any details about any crime. 1103 01:00:45,895 --> 01:00:48,440 As an English professor, it's pretty obvious to me 1104 01:00:48,481 --> 01:00:52,193 that another person takes over writing the letters. 1105 01:00:52,235 --> 01:00:54,571 Jennings: "This is the Zodiac speaking. 1106 01:00:54,612 --> 01:00:59,034 I have become very upset with the people of San Fran Bay Area. 1107 01:00:59,075 --> 01:01:02,162 They have not complied with my wishes for them 1108 01:01:02,203 --> 01:01:04,247 to wear some nice buttons." 1109 01:01:07,250 --> 01:01:08,877 Horan: And then, conveniently enough, 1110 01:01:08,918 --> 01:01:11,254 Zodiac doesn't write any more letters to any other newspapers. 1111 01:01:11,296 --> 01:01:12,922 He only writes to the Chronicle 1112 01:01:12,964 --> 01:01:16,134 from that point forward. 1113 01:01:16,176 --> 01:01:18,053 The other newspapers have to give 1114 01:01:18,094 --> 01:01:22,057 the Chroniclefree publicity for a story that's gonna be 1115 01:01:22,098 --> 01:01:25,685 exclusive to the Chronicle from now on. 1116 01:01:25,727 --> 01:01:28,938 Jennings: Now it's the Chronicle's domain exclusively 1117 01:01:28,980 --> 01:01:32,150 because he didn't send pieces of shirt to The Examiner, 1118 01:01:32,192 --> 01:01:33,777 to other papers. 1119 01:01:33,818 --> 01:01:36,696 So it's sort of cemented this relationship, 1120 01:01:36,738 --> 01:01:40,533 if you will, between Zodiac and the Chronicle. 1121 01:01:44,579 --> 01:01:46,790 Thomas, the Chronicle becomes ground zero 1122 01:01:46,831 --> 01:01:48,875 for the Zodiac at this point. 1123 01:01:48,917 --> 01:01:50,627 Why do you think that happened? 1124 01:01:50,669 --> 01:01:52,253 Horan: Well, I think that journalists at the Chronicle 1125 01:01:52,295 --> 01:01:56,216 had a motive to keep this story going in the Chronicle. 1126 01:01:56,257 --> 01:01:59,761 Is there someone in particular at the Chronicle? 1127 01:01:59,803 --> 01:02:02,263 Paul Avery's name comes to mind, 1128 01:02:02,305 --> 01:02:03,848 and I wouldn't put it past Avery. 1129 01:02:03,890 --> 01:02:09,604 I mean, Avery was always looking for some sensational story. 1130 01:02:09,646 --> 01:02:11,481 Paul Avery was a newspaper reporter 1131 01:02:11,523 --> 01:02:15,318 who was reporting heavily on the Zodiac crimes. 1132 01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:17,946 The killings that have gone on in this area in recent weeks 1133 01:02:17,987 --> 01:02:21,282 that have created very big headlines 1134 01:02:21,324 --> 01:02:23,451 that possibly he's a little miffed. 1135 01:02:23,493 --> 01:02:26,579 He's not the center of attention anymore. 1136 01:02:26,621 --> 01:02:29,207 So Paul Avery was always getting the scoop 1137 01:02:29,249 --> 01:02:30,834 on the Zodiac for some reason 1138 01:02:30,875 --> 01:02:33,795 and the only reporter that received direct correspondences 1139 01:02:33,837 --> 01:02:35,046 from the killer. 1140 01:02:35,088 --> 01:02:36,715 Nock: Is that suspicious in any way? I mean... 1141 01:02:36,756 --> 01:02:39,175 I think it's highly suspicious that the Zodiac Killer 1142 01:02:39,217 --> 01:02:43,680 actually sent correspondences directly to Paul Avery, 1143 01:02:43,722 --> 01:02:47,809 namely the infamous Halloween card. 1144 01:02:47,851 --> 01:02:50,353 The Halloween card said, "This is from your secret pal." 1145 01:02:50,395 --> 01:02:54,399 It was how he was referenced in that particular correspondence, 1146 01:02:54,441 --> 01:02:58,570 which I always found very interesting. 1147 01:02:58,611 --> 01:03:02,073 Another one called the pines card or the Sierra card, 1148 01:03:02,115 --> 01:03:05,035 where he spelled his name Paul "Averly" 1149 01:03:05,076 --> 01:03:06,661 for some reason. 1150 01:03:06,703 --> 01:03:10,457 The Zodiac is just making an idle threat, frankly. 1151 01:03:10,498 --> 01:03:12,334 People speculate maybe Paul Avery could have 1152 01:03:12,375 --> 01:03:13,626 had access to that shirt, 1153 01:03:13,668 --> 01:03:16,504 which is an interesting route to go. 1154 01:03:16,546 --> 01:03:18,006 It's just impossible to say 1155 01:03:18,048 --> 01:03:20,592 how well they maintained their evidence at the time, 1156 01:03:20,633 --> 01:03:22,302 if somebody else could have easily 1157 01:03:22,344 --> 01:03:25,597 gotten to that shirt or not. 1158 01:03:25,638 --> 01:03:28,141 Nock: I have a quick question about Paul Avery. 1159 01:03:28,183 --> 01:03:31,853 Is it true he was called "Unsavory Avery"? 1160 01:03:31,895 --> 01:03:34,189 Absolutely. 1161 01:03:34,230 --> 01:03:35,690 Absolutely. 1162 01:03:35,732 --> 01:03:39,361 It was a kind of an affectionate sobriquet, if you will, 1163 01:03:39,402 --> 01:03:40,862 to call him Unsavory Avery. 1164 01:03:40,904 --> 01:03:44,824 But -- But at the same time, it's kind of a testament 1165 01:03:44,866 --> 01:03:47,827 to his -- to his aggressiveness as a reporter. 1166 01:03:50,538 --> 01:03:52,957 Is it possible that Paul Avery 1167 01:03:52,999 --> 01:03:55,543 may have had a hand in writing those letters 1168 01:03:55,585 --> 01:03:57,629 to get the story to be bigger and bigger? 1169 01:03:57,671 --> 01:03:58,880 Have you ever heard that? 1170 01:03:58,922 --> 01:04:01,633 That's preposterous, in my view. 1171 01:04:01,675 --> 01:04:04,094 First of all, I never heard that. 1172 01:04:04,135 --> 01:04:06,846 Second, you know... 1173 01:04:06,888 --> 01:04:10,850 it's hard to imagine any journalist doing that. 1174 01:04:10,892 --> 01:04:12,811 If he was, that wasn't his primary job. 1175 01:04:12,852 --> 01:04:14,688 His primary job was some kind of criminal. 1176 01:04:14,729 --> 01:04:19,526 But I don't -- I just don't see that as feasible at all. 1177 01:04:19,567 --> 01:04:22,654 So this -- this is all news to me 1178 01:04:22,696 --> 01:04:26,199 and speculation by some armchair detective. 1179 01:04:26,241 --> 01:04:30,078 Do you think he would have been keeping the story alive? 1180 01:04:30,120 --> 01:04:34,124 You can speculate, but until you show me proof -- 1181 01:04:34,165 --> 01:04:35,709 I'm an investigator. 1182 01:04:35,750 --> 01:04:41,297 I live on facts or something that I can prove to a jury 1183 01:04:41,339 --> 01:04:43,883 that is factual and true. 1184 01:04:43,925 --> 01:04:47,804 Facts and proof -- two things that have been at odds 1185 01:04:47,846 --> 01:04:51,141 since the very first so-called Zodiac murder 1186 01:04:51,182 --> 01:04:53,518 on December 20, 1969, 1187 01:04:53,560 --> 01:04:55,437 and all the way through the investigation 1188 01:04:55,478 --> 01:04:57,355 into Paul Stine's death. 1189 01:04:57,397 --> 01:05:01,359 Do you have any strong leads as far as possible suspects? 1190 01:05:01,401 --> 01:05:02,944 No, we do not. 1191 01:05:02,986 --> 01:05:05,280 We're going through all the leads that we get, 1192 01:05:05,321 --> 01:05:07,741 and each one has turned out to be negative. 1193 01:05:07,782 --> 01:05:11,119 But someday one of them will turn out to be positive. 1194 01:05:11,161 --> 01:05:13,288 That's our hope. 1195 01:05:13,329 --> 01:05:16,124 Falzon: We ended up over a period of five, six years 1196 01:05:16,166 --> 01:05:20,712 with roughly four file cabinets, three drawers deep, 1197 01:05:20,754 --> 01:05:26,593 full of potential suspects of who could be the Zodiac. 1198 01:05:26,634 --> 01:05:29,804 Did some suspects look good? Yes. 1199 01:05:29,846 --> 01:05:32,098 But nobody was ever charged. 1200 01:05:32,140 --> 01:05:34,642 So Zodiac... 1201 01:05:34,684 --> 01:05:36,686 remains unsolved today. 1202 01:05:39,314 --> 01:05:43,610 Butterfield: The Zodiac letters began in July 1969 1203 01:05:43,651 --> 01:05:47,614 and apparently continued into 1974. 1204 01:05:47,655 --> 01:05:50,992 And then the killer went silent. 1205 01:05:51,034 --> 01:05:53,620 Nock: Michael, the linguistics analysis of the letters 1206 01:05:53,661 --> 01:05:55,497 that we conducted seemed to line up 1207 01:05:55,538 --> 01:05:57,665 with Professor Thomas Horan's theory 1208 01:05:57,707 --> 01:05:59,584 of there being numerous letter writers 1209 01:05:59,626 --> 01:06:03,171 after the fourth so-called Zodiac attack. 1210 01:06:03,213 --> 01:06:06,758 I think the notion that there was a change in the writing 1211 01:06:06,800 --> 01:06:09,761 after the Paul Stine murder could indicate 1212 01:06:09,803 --> 01:06:12,013 that there was more than one person involved. 1213 01:06:12,055 --> 01:06:15,684 But I also think it could be a psychological shift 1214 01:06:15,725 --> 01:06:18,770 in the killer himself. 1215 01:06:18,812 --> 01:06:20,355 Well, look what happened to the Unabomber. 1216 01:06:20,397 --> 01:06:22,440 He actually delivered a bomb to Salt Lake City. 1217 01:06:22,482 --> 01:06:23,983 Someone saw him do it. 1218 01:06:24,025 --> 01:06:25,694 He disappeared for six years. 1219 01:06:25,735 --> 01:06:29,155 He went into hiding for fear of being caught. 1220 01:06:29,197 --> 01:06:32,033 And clearly the Zodiac was not planning on being caught. 1221 01:06:32,075 --> 01:06:35,745 And so he ended up then just disappearing. 1222 01:06:35,787 --> 01:06:37,914 And then sometimes people like 1223 01:06:37,956 --> 01:06:40,125 to insert themselves into cases. 1224 01:06:40,166 --> 01:06:42,419 You could make up these letters and send them in, 1225 01:06:42,460 --> 01:06:45,171 pretending to be the Zodiac when actually you weren't. 1226 01:06:45,213 --> 01:06:49,968 ** 1227 01:06:50,010 --> 01:06:54,014 Watson: And this was just a little box that she made. 1228 01:06:54,055 --> 01:06:57,892 Her mother let Sharon and I go into her bedroom 1229 01:06:57,934 --> 01:07:02,272 and pick out whatever we wanted to keep of Betty Lou's, 1230 01:07:02,313 --> 01:07:04,149 and that's what I chose. 1231 01:07:04,190 --> 01:07:08,486 And inside is a charm bracelet. 1232 01:07:08,528 --> 01:07:11,906 Nock: When you think of Betty Lou, what comes to mind? 1233 01:07:11,948 --> 01:07:15,493 Funny, wonderful sense of humor. 1234 01:07:15,535 --> 01:07:17,412 And just fun to be around. 1235 01:07:17,454 --> 01:07:19,581 Very good friend. Very good friend. 1236 01:07:19,622 --> 01:07:23,710 ** 1237 01:07:23,752 --> 01:07:26,713 What do you want people to know about Darlene? 1238 01:07:26,755 --> 01:07:28,923 That she was a wonderful woman. 1239 01:07:28,965 --> 01:07:31,968 That she was a great gal, and she didn't deserve... 1240 01:07:32,010 --> 01:07:35,263 to be killed at his hands or anybody's. 1241 01:07:35,305 --> 01:07:39,184 And it was very, very tragic for her daughter to grow up 1242 01:07:39,225 --> 01:07:40,226 without her 1243 01:07:40,268 --> 01:07:43,271 and me to grow up without my sister. 1244 01:07:43,313 --> 01:07:47,400 I miss her so much, and I wish she was still alive. 1245 01:07:49,277 --> 01:07:51,154 I'd do anything to find this guy. 1246 01:07:53,865 --> 01:07:57,077 I would love to have an actual resolution someday 1247 01:07:57,118 --> 01:08:01,748 and know that we know who this person is. 1248 01:08:03,917 --> 01:08:06,878 The real tragedy of the myth of the Zodiac Killer 1249 01:08:06,920 --> 01:08:09,422 is not just that it robbed the victims 1250 01:08:09,464 --> 01:08:11,007 and their families of justice 1251 01:08:11,049 --> 01:08:14,427 and that it robbed society of justice, 1252 01:08:14,469 --> 01:08:16,971 people have become so wedded to their beliefs 1253 01:08:17,013 --> 01:08:20,308 that they hold on to them even in the face of clear, 1254 01:08:20,350 --> 01:08:21,893 contradictory evidence. 1255 01:08:21,935 --> 01:08:24,521 And that's the whole issue with the Zodiac narrative. 1256 01:08:24,562 --> 01:08:28,108 The facts have become secondary to the story, 1257 01:08:28,149 --> 01:08:30,485 and Zodiac is such a compelling storyline, 1258 01:08:30,527 --> 01:08:33,071 I'd write it into a novel. 1259 01:08:33,113 --> 01:08:35,490 It works. It just isn't true. 1260 01:08:35,532 --> 01:08:37,450 [ Film projector whirring ] 1261 01:08:37,492 --> 01:08:39,411 You have to unlearn a bunch of things. 1262 01:08:39,452 --> 01:08:42,163 But when people -- intelligent, trained people -- 1263 01:08:42,205 --> 01:08:44,666 when they take another look at this case, 1264 01:08:44,708 --> 01:08:46,751 they see the same things I see. 1265 01:08:46,793 --> 01:08:51,047 But the actual story of what really happened to these poor, 1266 01:08:51,089 --> 01:08:56,928 unfortunate young people, cut down on the threshold of life, 1267 01:08:56,970 --> 01:08:59,222 that story is much more compelling 1268 01:08:59,264 --> 01:09:02,267 than the myth of the so-called Zodiac Killer. 1269 01:09:04,894 --> 01:09:07,105 Nock: The dive into the Zodiac story 1270 01:09:07,147 --> 01:09:09,274 and the more of the onion you peel, 1271 01:09:09,315 --> 01:09:11,818 you don't really get to the core of what happened. 1272 01:09:11,860 --> 01:09:13,236 You just get to a muddier place, 1273 01:09:13,278 --> 01:09:16,531 because with every Zodiac expert that you speak to, 1274 01:09:16,573 --> 01:09:18,908 it's clear that their theory on what happened 1275 01:09:18,950 --> 01:09:22,871 in the so-called Zodiac crimes is the strongest theory. 1276 01:09:22,912 --> 01:09:24,956 Even when there's solid evidence in front of them 1277 01:09:24,998 --> 01:09:28,501 that challenges their position, they're unmovable. 1278 01:09:28,543 --> 01:09:32,088 The problem with that is when you're so entrenched in an idea, 1279 01:09:32,130 --> 01:09:34,758 like the notion that a single person committed 1280 01:09:34,799 --> 01:09:36,551 all four of these horrible crimes 1281 01:09:36,593 --> 01:09:38,970 and the same person wrote all of the letters 1282 01:09:39,012 --> 01:09:41,181 and the evidence proves otherwise, 1283 01:09:41,222 --> 01:09:46,061 what you get is a cold case that stretches on for 50-plus years, 1284 01:09:46,102 --> 01:09:49,814 and then there's no justice for any of the victims. 1285 01:09:49,856 --> 01:09:51,733 Professor Horan may be eccentric, 1286 01:09:51,775 --> 01:09:55,403 but he's studied every document publicly available on this case. 1287 01:09:55,445 --> 01:09:58,615 And it's impossible not to walk away wondering, 1288 01:09:58,656 --> 01:10:00,700 was there ever a Zodiac Killer? 1289 01:10:00,742 --> 01:10:04,329 ** 103479

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