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Success can be a problem.
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It can be dangerous because you
may forget what made the success.
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You may become self-centered, arrogant.
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If you learn from failure,
it can carry a lot of positives for you.
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If you carry out by success, it may
prepare big deceptions for the future.
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When Carlos Ghosn
was the head of Renault and Nissan,
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you know, you could see it in his eyes
and the way he spoke,
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he was a man who played by the rules.
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Everything was by the book
for Carlos Ghosn.
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At least, so it seemed.
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00:01:03,773 --> 00:01:05,117
Breaking news.
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Nissan has revealed that its
chairman has been arrested.
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00:01:09,946 --> 00:01:12,624
It not only seemed like he
had the Midas touch, he did.
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The rock star chairman.
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The savior of Nissan.
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He's in a global
super league of business leaders.
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Time magazine calls him
one of the most respected
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00:01:23,168 --> 00:01:25,545
business executives in
the world, ahead of Bill Gates.
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And here in Japan,
he's nothing less than a national hero.
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It's kind of the story of Icarus.
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The guy soared to the highest of highs
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and then he falls to the lowest of lows.
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Tokyo prosecutors have rearrested
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Nissan former chairman, Carlos Ghosn.
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This is an extraordinary situation.
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It is getting worse.
He is once again behind bars.
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People were just absolutely stunned.
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And a lot of people
were actively saying, "This is a coup.
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This is crazy."
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We discovered significant misconduct.
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We know it's a conspiracy.
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He betrayed my trust, my respect.
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He started saying, "I need to get out.
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If I stay in Japan,
it's gonna be a slow death."
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00:02:06,670 --> 00:02:09,306
Breaking news.
Carlos Ghosn on the run.
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Carlos Ghosn has fled Tokyo.
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The plan was so brilliant
because it was an optical illusion.
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It was the most extraordinary thing.
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There's some
confusion about how Ghosn escaped.
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I'm risking my life to save his life.
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00:02:28,567 --> 00:02:30,407
It seemed
like the perfect crime.
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You don't run unless you got something
to run from.
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Do I feel betrayed? Absolutely.
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We're up
against two competing narratives.
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Is Carlos Ghosn a victim...
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00:02:49,963 --> 00:02:50,964
or a villain?
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- We're ready for you.
- Can I come?
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- Yeah.
- Good.
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00:03:34,174 --> 00:03:38,178
Carlos Ghosn.
It seems that he remains a mystery.
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00:04:02,744 --> 00:04:05,330
Leadership is not something
which is born with you.
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00:04:10,335 --> 00:04:14,923
It's something that,
within the special circumstances of life,
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anyone can exercise.
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00:04:21,721 --> 00:04:24,724
Ordinary people, normal people,
hardworking people.
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00:04:28,103 --> 00:04:30,023
You can achieve whatever you want
in the world...
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as long as you're willing
to take the challenge.
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00:04:33,567 --> 00:04:35,777
What's in the box?
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00:04:36,820 --> 00:04:38,654
And ready to take the risk.
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00:04:52,294 --> 00:04:54,337
Is the shot okay? Anything wrong, or...
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Looks very good from where I am.
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- You happy?
- Good.
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00:05:00,051 --> 00:05:03,647
So take us back to November 2018.
You know, why were you flying to Japan?
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What was on your mind at the time?
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00:05:06,057 --> 00:05:08,518
I was going for a regular week in Japan.
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00:05:16,234 --> 00:05:18,286
So you had no sense
of a plot? You had no...
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00:05:18,486 --> 00:05:20,606
- No. No. No.
- Sense there was something going on?
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00:05:22,699 --> 00:05:26,253
I was very calm.
I had a board meeting of Nissan.
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00:05:26,453 --> 00:05:28,672
I had a meeting with
the Governor of Tokyo.
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I have also one of my daughter
who was visiting me in Japan.
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So I was happy. I was going to have
a nice dinner with her.
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And I was going just for a normal week.
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But at arrival at the airport,
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they said that there was something wrong
with my passport.
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"Can you come with us to the office?"
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00:05:52,103 --> 00:05:54,406
And there was a small guy
sitting on the side,
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00:05:54,606 --> 00:05:56,033
and this is when he came to me and said,
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"Look, I am working
with the Tokyo prosecutor office.
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We want you to come with us because
we have some questions to ask you."
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00:06:03,365 --> 00:06:05,667
And then this I say,
"Well, this must be a misunderstanding.
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00:06:05,867 --> 00:06:07,419
I have my daughter waiting.
I have dinner."
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He said "No, no. I'm sorry."
I said, "Can I call her?"
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He said, "No, no.
You cannot use your phone."
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00:06:10,997 --> 00:06:13,917
And this is where I understood
that this was very serious.
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00:06:17,629 --> 00:06:18,306
Breaking news.
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In the past few minutes,
Nissan has revealed that
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its chairman has been arrested.
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00:06:24,052 --> 00:06:26,938
It's a fall from grace
as brutal as it is sudden.
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00:06:27,138 --> 00:06:29,524
Carlos Ghosn, the all-powerful boss,
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arrested as he got off his private jet
in Tokyo.
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00:06:35,313 --> 00:06:37,524
The whole world collapsed for me.
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First, I was shocked.
I was traumatized, you know.
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It was horrible.
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Numerous significant acts of misconduct
have been uncovered such as the person...
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00:06:47,242 --> 00:06:49,336
It took me some time
to realize that Nissan
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00:06:49,536 --> 00:06:55,249
was launching a massive campaign
in the media manipulating public opinion.
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We have directors of Nissan
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who had some very harsh words for Ghosn.
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He'd managed by fear, by direction,
by dictatorial...
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00:07:04,050 --> 00:07:06,353
They were on the offensive everywhere.
99
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And not only in Japan,
but particularly in France.
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00:07:10,265 --> 00:07:13,143
The era of Carlos Ghosn
is officially over.
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Last night,
Mr. Carlos Ghosn submitted his resignation
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to Renault's provisional management.
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The board of Renault
supported me for a few weeks.
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00:07:26,364 --> 00:07:29,117
Then at a certain point in time,
they shot me in the head.
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00:07:47,969 --> 00:07:50,221
The French people love Renault.
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They say their blood cells
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or their heart is in the form of
a diamond which is a symbol of Renault.
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It was a quite, successful firm
with 30 years of continuous growth.
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00:08:10,825 --> 00:08:13,712
But in '94, '95,
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we were facing major difficulties.
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I mean,
we were looking face-to-face with death.
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00:08:22,170 --> 00:08:23,305
DÉVASTÉ - CALAMITÉ -
FAILLITE - CATACLYSME
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LA FIN?
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But then one of the strategists came up
with the name of Carlos Ghosn
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whom I had never heard about.
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00:08:39,312 --> 00:08:44,284
My first meeting with Schweitzer
was a very cold
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and structured and rational meeting.
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00:08:48,989 --> 00:08:51,249
He obviously was a very different person
than me
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00:08:51,449 --> 00:08:54,461
and I felt the difference immediately,
but it's fine.
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00:08:54,661 --> 00:09:00,092
He was a very impressive person
with a drive and intensity,
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00:09:00,292 --> 00:09:02,711
which was very exciting.
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00:09:03,211 --> 00:09:07,215
You know, he was the sort
of man you felt would forge ahead.
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00:09:07,716 --> 00:09:11,061
The chairman, CEO and president of
Michelin North America, Mr. Carlos Ghosn.
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00:09:11,261 --> 00:09:12,521
Mr. Chairman, welcome to the program.
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I'm glad to be here.
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00:09:14,222 --> 00:09:17,067
He had very impressive
track record at Michelin.
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00:09:17,267 --> 00:09:22,772
I mean, he had managed a major merger
in the US and return to profits.
128
00:09:23,273 --> 00:09:29,237
So the possibility of a quick turnaround
was clear in my mind and in our mind.
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00:09:30,113 --> 00:09:33,208
A lot of people said, "You have
zero chance of being successful."
130
00:09:33,408 --> 00:09:36,712
But it was very exciting,
in a certain way, to say, "You know what?
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I have the opportunity
to prove them all wrong."
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00:09:39,247 --> 00:09:43,009
So I told him,
"Well, I want to recruit you."
133
00:09:43,209 --> 00:09:46,763
And, Ghosn said,
"Well, thank you very much.
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00:09:46,963 --> 00:09:48,048
I will come."
135
00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:54,387
I must mention one point
which I found interesting.
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François Michelin told me,
"Look, you should not leave him alone.
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You should phone him every week."
138
00:10:02,729 --> 00:10:05,190
And I found that a bit surprising
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00:10:06,191 --> 00:10:11,696
because it showed that maybe
there was something a bit fragile.
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00:10:17,953 --> 00:10:21,039
Ghosn was in a league
of his own, and that fascinated me.
141
00:10:21,706 --> 00:10:23,250
But he's also kind of an outsider.
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00:10:24,626 --> 00:10:29,097
He's come from the Amazon Rainforest,
born in the, like, backwater of Brazil,
143
00:10:29,297 --> 00:10:31,591
basically, in a place called Porto Velho...
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00:10:32,467 --> 00:10:35,428
to Lebanese mum, Lebanese dad.
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00:10:36,930 --> 00:10:39,149
I mean, it is the Amazon, and it's tough.
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00:10:39,349 --> 00:10:44,395
And so when Ghosn was... was very young,
um, he had ki... weak health...
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00:10:45,939 --> 00:10:47,566
and they moved back to Lebanon.
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00:10:49,484 --> 00:10:55,615
And then as a teenager, he came to France,
ended up at a university in Paris.
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00:10:57,242 --> 00:11:00,629
And I think growing up in these
different cultures gave him...
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00:11:00,829 --> 00:11:02,631
a-a huge competitive advantage in,
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00:11:02,831 --> 00:11:05,417
you know,
a globalized and globalizing world.
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00:11:08,295 --> 00:11:09,888
This man is the right-hand man
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to the President of Renault.
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00:11:13,174 --> 00:11:15,176
Carlos Ghosn starts work tomorrow.
155
00:11:19,139 --> 00:11:20,857
Carlos Ghosn's vision, first of all,
156
00:11:21,057 --> 00:11:24,936
was you've gotta be profitable
and then everything flows from that.
157
00:11:25,604 --> 00:11:29,616
So he gets to Renault, and he cuts costs,
and he does it savagely.
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00:11:29,816 --> 00:11:33,745
The French carmaker Renault
plans to close a plant in Belgium.
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00:11:33,945 --> 00:11:36,405
The decision means
the loss of over 3,000 jobs.
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00:11:42,787 --> 00:11:46,499
I said, "Look, this plethora
of people must cost a fortune.
161
00:11:47,292 --> 00:11:49,553
What are the strengths,
and what are the weaknesses?
162
00:11:49,753 --> 00:11:53,130
So we can build on our strength
and try to erase our weakness."
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That's all.
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00:11:56,218 --> 00:11:57,894
He's ruthless. Absolutely.
165
00:11:58,094 --> 00:12:00,605
I mean, if the company needs
to shed 5,000 jobs,
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00:12:00,805 --> 00:12:03,516
"Very sorry. Thank you for your work.
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00:12:04,476 --> 00:12:06,394
Don't let the door hit you
on the way out."
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00:12:07,187 --> 00:12:09,067
Carlos Ghosn's nickname:
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00:12:09,314 --> 00:12:10,315
le cost cutter.
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00:12:12,192 --> 00:12:15,245
The result is a spectacular
turnaround for Renault.
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A profit of
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00:12:16,905 --> 00:12:19,207
2,300,000,000 francs.
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- Nicole?
- Papa?
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00:12:21,368 --> 00:12:22,368
Maman.
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00:12:23,787 --> 00:12:26,122
It was an astounding success,
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but still, I felt that we were too small...
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00:12:30,126 --> 00:12:34,381
too French,
and that we had to internationalize.
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00:12:34,881 --> 00:12:37,676
Therefore, we should have a partner
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00:12:38,176 --> 00:12:41,429
whose strengths
were in different markets than ours.
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00:12:42,013 --> 00:12:45,350
And American companies,
they were simply too expensive for us.
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00:12:47,018 --> 00:12:51,356
But Asian companies afraid
of facing bankruptcy,
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00:12:52,065 --> 00:12:55,827
I think that Ghosn saw this
as an opportunity.
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00:12:56,027 --> 00:12:58,822
Simple as that.
184
00:13:09,958 --> 00:13:12,219
Nissan,
one of Japan's biggest corporate names,
185
00:13:12,419 --> 00:13:13,595
has gone into loss.
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00:13:13,795 --> 00:13:14,930
Today Nissan Corporation...
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00:13:15,130 --> 00:13:16,848
Nissan cars...
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00:13:17,048 --> 00:13:19,758
Nissan Motors released its results
at 3pm today.
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00:13:21,469 --> 00:13:24,439
The car industry
in Japan is without a doubt
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00:13:24,639 --> 00:13:27,392
the biggest source of national pride.
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00:13:28,268 --> 00:13:30,812
But when Carlos Ghosn came in 1999,
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00:13:31,938 --> 00:13:33,940
I mean, Nissan was dead in the water.
193
00:13:35,025 --> 00:13:38,111
A respected carmaker
but troubled and losing money.
194
00:13:39,195 --> 00:13:40,447
I mean, nobody wanted it.
195
00:13:41,156 --> 00:13:45,085
Even the banks that used to lend out money
like candy were just like,
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00:13:45,285 --> 00:13:46,086
"Okay, no more."
197
00:13:46,286 --> 00:13:50,789
But he believed that he could
rescue this basket case of a company.
198
00:13:53,376 --> 00:13:55,461
Nissan just needed an injection of cash.
199
00:13:56,713 --> 00:14:01,718
So what Renault decided to do
is take a stake in the company of 37%.
200
00:14:04,429 --> 00:14:05,897
But instead of straight merger,
201
00:14:06,097 --> 00:14:07,933
the two companies remain two companies.
202
00:14:08,808 --> 00:14:10,068
Essentially, what they've decided to do is
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00:14:10,268 --> 00:14:13,864
to create this kind of weird
construction... that was the alliance...
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00:14:14,064 --> 00:14:15,523
And kind of support each other.
205
00:14:17,025 --> 00:14:19,694
Other companies
considered Nissan too risky.
206
00:14:20,278 --> 00:14:23,290
It was losing money on a continuous basis.
207
00:14:23,490 --> 00:14:26,534
It was heavily indebted...
208
00:14:28,912 --> 00:14:33,708
but I had the best turnaround expert
in the automobile industry.
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00:14:34,626 --> 00:14:35,627
Carlos Ghosn.
210
00:14:36,127 --> 00:14:39,422
I told him, look,
"I think we can do it.
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00:14:40,590 --> 00:14:43,393
If we fail, you will be fired.
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00:14:43,593 --> 00:14:44,970
I will be fired."
213
00:14:47,806 --> 00:14:50,317
For me, the success of this alliance,
214
00:14:50,517 --> 00:14:56,523
that was signed in 1999,
was based on two principles.
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00:14:57,274 --> 00:14:58,200
Okay?
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00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:04,281
Trust and sincere,
effective collaboration.
217
00:15:04,948 --> 00:15:10,328
And if any one of the two were missing,
this whole thing doesn't have any meaning.
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00:15:22,841 --> 00:15:28,179
When I first heard his name,
I didn't know almost anything.
219
00:15:29,014 --> 00:15:34,060
But if you imagine that some strange...
Stranger suddenly restructuring Nissan,
220
00:15:35,562 --> 00:15:39,190
it could be a big shock, I think.
221
00:15:41,693 --> 00:15:44,246
And we must address
the real problems of the company
222
00:15:44,446 --> 00:15:45,747
without any compromise.
223
00:15:45,947 --> 00:15:48,366
It will require a lot of sacrifices...
224
00:15:51,870 --> 00:15:53,046
but I'm tell... I'm telling you,
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00:15:53,246 --> 00:15:57,300
I'm feeding a lot of determination
into the company to do it.
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00:15:57,500 --> 00:15:58,593
And without any compromise...
227
00:15:58,793 --> 00:16:03,131
For Carlos Ghosn, there was
the immediate problem of a culture clash.
228
00:16:04,466 --> 00:16:07,936
In fact, some of the longtimers... I mean,
in... in the Japanese parlance,
229
00:16:08,136 --> 00:16:10,222
they would refer to them
as the "old boys"...
230
00:16:10,722 --> 00:16:15,861
Were deeply suspicious
of Renault's intentions and some of them,
231
00:16:16,061 --> 00:16:19,814
frankly,
a little bit resentful of this outsider.
232
00:16:22,150 --> 00:16:24,369
I knew I was playing on my future
and my credibility.
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00:16:24,569 --> 00:16:27,289
But then this was it, it was a totally
foreign country, different culture.
234
00:16:27,489 --> 00:16:29,499
And there was no reference,
there was no book,
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00:16:29,699 --> 00:16:32,339
there was nothing explained to you
how you do these kind of things.
236
00:16:34,746 --> 00:16:36,747
Just need to imagine and do it.
237
00:16:41,461 --> 00:16:42,796
- Thank you, Harao
- San.
238
00:16:44,673 --> 00:16:48,843
The key facts about Nissan
point to one reality.
239
00:16:49,469 --> 00:16:52,180
Nissan is in bad shape.
240
00:16:54,266 --> 00:16:57,361
His plan was basically
to turn 20 billion in debt
241
00:16:57,561 --> 00:16:59,896
into a profit in a couple of years.
242
00:17:00,689 --> 00:17:01,856
I mean, it was unheard of.
243
00:17:02,566 --> 00:17:04,284
This effort will gather suppliers...
244
00:17:04,484 --> 00:17:09,447
He was going to slash tens
of thousands of jobs, close factories,
245
00:17:10,239 --> 00:17:11,999
which frankly was shocking in Japan.
246
00:17:12,199 --> 00:17:14,784
You know, people don't get fired
or laid off in Japan.
247
00:17:18,707 --> 00:17:20,874
The reaction was "Wow, this is brutal."
248
00:17:22,127 --> 00:17:23,670
This is some... some real medicine.
249
00:17:25,045 --> 00:17:26,848
I mean, he received death threats
250
00:17:27,048 --> 00:17:30,343
and he had to have security with him
at all times.
251
00:17:33,388 --> 00:17:35,941
How he got through it
was basically just trying not to overthink
252
00:17:36,141 --> 00:17:38,694
and just put his head down
and just charge forward
253
00:17:38,894 --> 00:17:40,896
and just keep going
and hope that it works.
254
00:17:43,315 --> 00:17:44,241
I said from the beginning,
255
00:17:44,441 --> 00:17:46,451
if I don't grow the company
in three years, I'm out.
256
00:17:46,651 --> 00:17:49,321
If I don't cut the debt in half
in three years, I'm out.
257
00:17:50,363 --> 00:17:53,542
So I needed every single minute of the day
258
00:17:53,742 --> 00:17:57,587
and every single ounce of energy
that I would have
259
00:17:57,787 --> 00:17:59,456
in order to make it happen.
260
00:18:04,628 --> 00:18:07,422
Carlos Ghosn is involved
in everything, every decision.
261
00:18:09,925 --> 00:18:12,144
He's involved in design,
he's involved in the PR,
262
00:18:12,344 --> 00:18:14,554
he's involved in the engineering,
in the finance.
263
00:18:15,430 --> 00:18:18,817
He has an agenda
which is full to the brim.
264
00:18:19,017 --> 00:18:21,686
- Quick response, quicker response.
- Okay.
265
00:18:24,981 --> 00:18:28,068
Wasn't sure if Mr. Ghosn's plan
266
00:18:29,569 --> 00:18:32,364
was able to change Nissan at that time.
267
00:18:33,823 --> 00:18:38,119
But a few months later,
that action started showing improvement.
268
00:18:38,787 --> 00:18:42,749
Nissan was getting out of the deep red.
269
00:18:43,875 --> 00:18:45,510
The man
they call the "cost killer"
270
00:18:45,710 --> 00:18:48,930
was sent into a near-bankrupt Nissan
two years ago.
271
00:18:49,130 --> 00:18:51,091
That's when the revolution began.
272
00:18:53,301 --> 00:18:55,812
After one year, we had incredible results.
273
00:18:56,012 --> 00:19:00,817
My opponents said,
"He tricked the books. This is fake."
274
00:19:01,017 --> 00:19:03,111
"We're gonna see after one year."
275
00:19:03,311 --> 00:19:05,072
And as you know,
the second year came better,
276
00:19:05,272 --> 00:19:06,281
the third year came better,
277
00:19:06,481 --> 00:19:08,108
and then it was... it was over.
278
00:19:08,608 --> 00:19:13,196
Then the image was built,
the recovery was here...
279
00:19:15,282 --> 00:19:18,034
and I became promoted to CEO of Nissan.
280
00:19:18,618 --> 00:19:19,618
Thank you very much.
281
00:19:22,455 --> 00:19:24,466
So he pulled it off
in a pretty dramatic way?
282
00:19:24,666 --> 00:19:26,376
Yeah, completely. Absolutely.
283
00:19:27,252 --> 00:19:30,546
I mean, it not only seemed like
he had the Midas touch, he did.
284
00:19:38,138 --> 00:19:41,191
When I first went to live
in Japan as a program director for Nissan,
285
00:19:41,391 --> 00:19:44,269
he was at the peak of his popularity.
286
00:19:47,272 --> 00:19:50,483
He couldn't walk in the street.
He was a superhero.
287
00:19:51,109 --> 00:19:52,035
He was a manga hero.
288
00:19:52,235 --> 00:19:54,788
Everybody wanted to know what he was like.
289
00:19:54,988 --> 00:19:57,416
Everybody wanted to know
what the magic was.
290
00:19:57,616 --> 00:19:59,084
Everybody wanted to understand
291
00:19:59,284 --> 00:20:02,078
how he'd managed to turn Nissan around.
292
00:20:07,375 --> 00:20:10,253
At that moment, he could do no wrong.
293
00:20:11,254 --> 00:20:14,433
And to be honest,
we all basked in the reflective glory
294
00:20:14,633 --> 00:20:16,092
of working for Mr. Ghosn.
295
00:20:26,311 --> 00:20:29,814
I think Ghosn enjoyed
his newfound fame in Japan.
296
00:20:31,191 --> 00:20:34,152
He gets the blue ribbon
from the Japanese emperor.
297
00:20:35,946 --> 00:20:36,747
Time magazine calls him
298
00:20:36,947 --> 00:20:38,999
one of the most respected
business executives in the world,
299
00:20:39,199 --> 00:20:40,417
ahead of Bill Gates.
300
00:20:40,617 --> 00:20:42,294
Suddenly, you know, he does dress better.
301
00:20:42,494 --> 00:20:44,454
He...
He starts to care about his image.
302
00:20:45,330 --> 00:20:48,041
His appearance does begin to change.
303
00:20:49,042 --> 00:20:50,794
He has an eye operation.
304
00:20:51,670 --> 00:20:53,547
Before he wore these quite thick glasses.
305
00:20:54,756 --> 00:20:57,184
His suits become maybe a little slimmer.
306
00:20:57,384 --> 00:21:01,012
Ladies and gentlemen,
we have reached a new era.
307
00:21:01,596 --> 00:21:06,351
There was a survey at the time, you know,
asking Japanese women,
308
00:21:06,851 --> 00:21:10,188
you know, which man they would
like to father their children with.
309
00:21:11,147 --> 00:21:14,234
And Carlos Ghosn was right up there.
310
00:21:17,946 --> 00:21:22,075
In those early days,
he was very much the family man.
311
00:21:22,576 --> 00:21:27,672
You know, his wife, Rita, at that time,
um, and his kids were there, and he was...
312
00:21:27,872 --> 00:21:30,133
trying to make it as balanced
313
00:21:30,333 --> 00:21:31,418
as he could.
314
00:21:33,795 --> 00:21:35,722
I was elected Father of the Year.
315
00:21:35,922 --> 00:21:39,426
Wh-which was one of the award
that I like the most,
316
00:21:41,011 --> 00:21:43,355
which, by the way,
surprised a lot my children.
317
00:21:43,555 --> 00:21:44,898
They... They...
318
00:21:45,098 --> 00:21:48,610
They said that the father of the year
should be with his kids all the time,
319
00:21:48,810 --> 00:21:50,195
so which obviously
I... was not.
320
00:21:50,395 --> 00:21:51,897
But, in a certain way, it...
321
00:21:52,689 --> 00:21:56,993
Being elected Father of the Year in Japan
showed a little bit the emotional bond
322
00:21:57,193 --> 00:22:02,490
that started to be created between me
and the country and with the public.
323
00:22:05,243 --> 00:22:07,879
- It's a big square.
- It's a huge...
324
00:22:08,079 --> 00:22:11,341
It's just a big square from a good...
325
00:22:11,541 --> 00:22:13,135
Well, there's always...
326
00:22:13,335 --> 00:22:17,589
Ghosn barely ever talked
about anything at a personal level.
327
00:22:19,049 --> 00:22:23,270
He's not your, um, down the pub,
friendly kind of a guy.
328
00:22:23,470 --> 00:22:27,307
I mean,
I think I knew him as well as most,
329
00:22:27,933 --> 00:22:32,112
but to know him, w-wasn't... w-was
to know him, at a work level.
330
00:22:32,312 --> 00:22:34,814
It wasn't to know him, really,
at a personal level.
331
00:22:36,399 --> 00:22:37,776
He wasn't like that at all.
332
00:22:48,828 --> 00:22:52,457
I think
to really understand Carlos Ghosn
333
00:22:54,167 --> 00:22:55,961
you have to know the whole story.
334
00:23:04,761 --> 00:23:08,181
I am deputy director of
the news magazine L'Obs.
335
00:23:09,182 --> 00:23:12,310
I interviewed Carlos Ghosn frequently.
336
00:23:14,271 --> 00:23:16,823
I have met many CEOs in my career.
337
00:23:17,023 --> 00:23:19,734
Big bosses, French bosses, foreign bosses
338
00:23:20,443 --> 00:23:22,194
but he was always very different.
339
00:23:23,738 --> 00:23:26,491
There was always
some kind of tension there.
340
00:23:26,992 --> 00:23:32,538
So I started thinking, "What's his story?"
341
00:23:34,165 --> 00:23:36,668
Something might not be right here.
342
00:23:37,419 --> 00:23:38,887
Then I was talking with someone
343
00:23:39,087 --> 00:23:41,423
who has known Ghosn
for a long, long time...
344
00:23:44,926 --> 00:23:48,346
and they said there is a mystery
surrounding his father.
345
00:23:52,434 --> 00:23:55,270
His father had supposedly
spent some time in prison.
346
00:24:00,483 --> 00:24:02,611
And that's all they would tell me.
347
00:24:06,615 --> 00:24:09,334
This was a story that everyone
in Lebanon knew,
348
00:24:09,534 --> 00:24:13,622
but nobody dared to talk
about it with Carlos Ghosn.
349
00:24:18,168 --> 00:24:19,469
When you have this in your life
350
00:24:19,669 --> 00:24:21,838
and you run one of the biggest
companies in the world
351
00:24:23,006 --> 00:24:24,925
you must keep this secret.
352
00:24:26,384 --> 00:24:29,095
You must be afraid
that one day it will come out.
353
00:24:43,944 --> 00:24:46,830
Louis Schweitzer
leaves today to his successor,
354
00:24:47,030 --> 00:24:49,207
the fourth largest automotive
group in the world.
355
00:24:49,407 --> 00:24:51,460
- In French first, you know...
- Okay.
356
00:24:51,660 --> 00:24:54,421
The plan for my succession in 2005
357
00:24:54,621 --> 00:25:00,085
was that he would relinquish
his executive position at Nissan
358
00:25:00,835 --> 00:25:04,506
and become chairman and CEO
of Renault full-time.
359
00:25:05,006 --> 00:25:08,977
Obviously, Schweitzer would have preferred
for me to go directly for Renault
360
00:25:09,177 --> 00:25:11,762
and abandoning Nissan,
but I said I'm not gonna do it.
361
00:25:12,682 --> 00:25:14,608
Frankly, I didn't want him to leave.
I told him, you know,
362
00:25:14,808 --> 00:25:16,526
"Louis, w-why don't you take
another mandate?
363
00:25:16,726 --> 00:25:17,986
Let me finish the job in Nissan."
364
00:25:18,186 --> 00:25:20,939
But he was in a hurry
to leave the job of CEO,
365
00:25:21,439 --> 00:25:23,483
and wanted me to... to come back.
366
00:25:24,192 --> 00:25:27,486
So, I decided to go for the two jobs.
367
00:25:30,991 --> 00:25:32,459
He told me, "Look,
368
00:25:32,659 --> 00:25:37,998
I will only stay on as CEO of Nissan
till I find a good successor."
369
00:25:38,623 --> 00:25:43,545
And quite stupidly, I must say,
I believed him.
370
00:25:44,296 --> 00:25:46,006
What a fool!
371
00:25:47,007 --> 00:25:50,018
He's a superstar
in the automobile world,
372
00:25:50,218 --> 00:25:53,397
famed for breathing life back into Nissan.
373
00:25:53,597 --> 00:25:56,274
Now also the new chief executive
of Renault,
374
00:25:56,474 --> 00:25:59,019
he'll be leading both firms at once.
375
00:26:01,146 --> 00:26:04,408
It was unheard of for one man
376
00:26:04,608 --> 00:26:09,029
to run two companies
of that size simultaneously.
377
00:26:10,614 --> 00:26:16,161
But... to be frank...
Part of his motivation was also ambition.
378
00:26:18,914 --> 00:26:20,924
You're gonna have one professional life,
379
00:26:21,124 --> 00:26:23,793
use it to the maximum you can
380
00:26:25,086 --> 00:26:29,423
and then life will give you
much more opportunities than you think.
381
00:26:32,552 --> 00:26:36,932
The issue with Ghosn is that he is running
a French and a Japanese company
382
00:26:37,515 --> 00:26:39,392
and obviously making a lot of money.
383
00:26:42,187 --> 00:26:44,364
But you-you have to understand,
culturally in France,
384
00:26:44,564 --> 00:26:45,907
it's just not considered acceptable
385
00:26:46,107 --> 00:26:48,785
to be making huge salaries
the way they do in the US, right?
386
00:26:48,985 --> 00:26:50,954
In the US, if you're running
General Motors, or whatever,
387
00:26:51,154 --> 00:26:54,199
you're making 20 million, 25 million,
other people are making much more.
388
00:26:54,783 --> 00:26:56,451
In France, that doesn't happen.
389
00:26:57,077 --> 00:27:00,077
Excuse me,
Mr. Ghosn, I have some questions for you.
390
00:27:00,330 --> 00:27:02,716
Don't you want to talk about your salary?
391
00:27:02,916 --> 00:27:03,916
Mr. Ghosn?
392
00:27:04,459 --> 00:27:05,794
Anything at all?
393
00:27:06,962 --> 00:27:10,382
Obviously, the French
media didn't like the double compensation.
394
00:27:10,966 --> 00:27:15,562
They didn't like the fact that compared
to an average CEO in France,
395
00:27:15,762 --> 00:27:18,265
I was overcompensated.
396
00:27:18,890 --> 00:27:22,602
But for me, it's a question...
It's a question of fairness.
397
00:27:23,603 --> 00:27:26,481
I mean, my contribution
to each company was very clear.
398
00:27:27,065 --> 00:27:30,277
I committed to results, and I made money.
399
00:27:37,576 --> 00:27:40,579
When a new
Minister of Economy takes office,
400
00:27:41,663 --> 00:27:43,999
the CEO of Renault comes
to see him straight away.
401
00:27:51,715 --> 00:27:52,841
It's dangerous
402
00:27:53,717 --> 00:27:57,011
because one man's grip on power
always ends badly.
403
00:28:00,265 --> 00:28:03,435
He never liked it when we spoke
about his salary
404
00:28:03,935 --> 00:28:05,061
or his succession.
405
00:28:06,396 --> 00:28:09,691
He would just lower his eyes
and beat around the bush,
406
00:28:10,442 --> 00:28:13,069
then drop three or four names,
407
00:28:13,695 --> 00:28:14,905
never the right ones.
408
00:28:16,823 --> 00:28:21,578
He had a strategy of presenting
himself as indispensable.
409
00:28:22,621 --> 00:28:26,541
But graveyards are populated
with irreplaceable people.
410
00:28:31,796 --> 00:28:37,436
At that stage,
he was God, king, queen, prince,
411
00:28:37,636 --> 00:28:39,679
all the power rested with him.
412
00:28:40,722 --> 00:28:42,641
Ghosn looked like
413
00:28:43,475 --> 00:28:45,018
an Asian dictator
414
00:28:45,894 --> 00:28:47,270
in front of the board.
415
00:28:48,271 --> 00:28:50,649
He was surrounded by "yes men"
416
00:28:51,733 --> 00:28:56,655
when what he needed
was challenge and debate.
417
00:28:59,074 --> 00:29:01,742
But that was sorely lacking.
That's the truth.
418
00:29:05,455 --> 00:29:08,135
Ghosn was essentially
free to do what he wants.
419
00:29:08,583 --> 00:29:11,595
You know...
there's very little oversight
420
00:29:11,795 --> 00:29:13,513
and he has very few people
challenging him.
421
00:29:13,713 --> 00:29:15,140
And, you know, that's okay,
422
00:29:15,340 --> 00:29:17,601
as long as Nissan's doing okay
and Renault's doing okay.
423
00:29:17,801 --> 00:29:19,511
But then the Financial Crisis hits...
424
00:29:21,096 --> 00:29:22,272
that's a problem.
425
00:29:22,472 --> 00:29:25,650
The worst financial crisis
in modern times,
426
00:29:25,850 --> 00:29:28,945
certainly the largest
financial disaster in decades.
427
00:29:29,145 --> 00:29:31,948
Markets plunged as much as 464 points.
428
00:29:32,148 --> 00:29:33,992
Lehman Brothers have filed for bankruptcy.
429
00:29:34,192 --> 00:29:35,160
Traders in Tokyo,
430
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:40,499
worried about a spreading US recession
and credit turmoil, sent stocks down 3.9%.
431
00:29:40,699 --> 00:29:43,335
2008 was a huge global crisis,
432
00:29:43,535 --> 00:29:46,329
and it was a disaster
for the car industry as a whole.
433
00:29:47,122 --> 00:29:49,124
It was a car crash,
it was an absolute car crash.
434
00:29:50,125 --> 00:29:53,628
Nissan was about six weeks away
from running out of cash
435
00:29:54,129 --> 00:29:58,684
and almost everybody, including myself,
would buy our own stationery.
436
00:29:58,884 --> 00:30:02,020
I mean, it was that level of,
you put your own money into...
437
00:30:02,220 --> 00:30:05,190
Into basically keeping the... the...
The com... the company going.
438
00:30:05,390 --> 00:30:07,818
Renault had to get a loan
from the government,
439
00:30:08,018 --> 00:30:10,195
Nissan weren't sure how
they were gonna pay payroll.
440
00:30:10,395 --> 00:30:12,781
And you're trying to preserve cash,
and you're trying to survive,
441
00:30:12,981 --> 00:30:14,825
and your share price
is going down the toilet.
442
00:30:15,025 --> 00:30:16,868
For Ghosn, everything at work is on fire.
443
00:30:17,068 --> 00:30:19,955
Already, running two companies
is impossible when its calm waters,
444
00:30:20,155 --> 00:30:21,248
but this is the Financial Crisis,
445
00:30:21,448 --> 00:30:23,617
and he's trying to keep
these two companies afloat.
446
00:30:24,117 --> 00:30:27,454
There was almost always a crisis
in one company or the other.
447
00:30:28,538 --> 00:30:30,081
We just saw him less and less,
448
00:30:30,916 --> 00:30:34,044
and you saw it again
with the tsunami in Japan.
449
00:30:41,968 --> 00:30:47,265
I'm in my office at Nissan,
and you hear this "buh-boom."
450
00:30:48,433 --> 00:30:52,269
And then, I'm on the 21st floor,
and this building starts to shake.
451
00:31:00,862 --> 00:31:02,738
It must have lasted nine minutes.
452
00:31:06,034 --> 00:31:09,496
We're scared to death.
I thought we were done.
453
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,929
A massive earthquake has hit
the northeast of Japan,
454
00:31:18,129 --> 00:31:20,215
triggering a devastating tsunami.
455
00:31:37,524 --> 00:31:43,121
The first thing I did was
to go send an email to Carlos Ghosn,
456
00:31:43,321 --> 00:31:44,906
'cause he was in Renault.
457
00:31:45,949 --> 00:31:48,368
It was basically,
"We just had this big earthquake,
458
00:31:48,952 --> 00:31:50,295
so many people died.
459
00:31:50,495 --> 00:31:54,040
We better get together quick
to figure out what we're gonna do."
460
00:31:56,710 --> 00:31:58,804
But at the same time,
he's got his other company,
461
00:31:59,004 --> 00:32:02,131
and he's got to lead
that through the Financial Crisis.
462
00:32:03,967 --> 00:32:05,811
I was in Japan. I stayed in Japan,
463
00:32:06,011 --> 00:32:08,689
as did many of my colleagues
because we were... We felt a...
464
00:32:08,889 --> 00:32:12,225
A bond with the Japanese
that were going through... through hell.
465
00:32:12,726 --> 00:32:15,687
But he didn't come, I think,
for almost ten days.
466
00:32:21,985 --> 00:32:25,404
It showed that, you know,
he wasn't a superhuman.
467
00:32:27,282 --> 00:32:29,200
A lot of mistakes got made.
468
00:32:30,702 --> 00:32:33,922
Both companies craved his attention.
469
00:32:34,122 --> 00:32:38,209
And when it wasn't there, then...
Then basically the cancer started to bite.
470
00:32:39,753 --> 00:32:42,222
Everything just keeps spiraling
out of control, spiraling out of control.
471
00:32:42,422 --> 00:32:45,717
And Ghosn looks like an absentee boss
because he's not even there.
472
00:32:46,301 --> 00:32:47,301
And then...
473
00:32:50,222 --> 00:32:52,357
you looked over the fence and your boss
474
00:32:52,557 --> 00:32:56,435
was seemingly having
this celebrity lifestyle.
475
00:32:58,730 --> 00:33:00,490
And that started to irk.
476
00:33:00,690 --> 00:33:04,453
I was fed up of... of basically
defending Ghosn when, underneath,
477
00:33:04,653 --> 00:33:08,156
I was really starting to resent his style.
478
00:33:12,744 --> 00:33:17,340
I also became aware of the issues
with Rita and the breakup of his marriage,
479
00:33:17,540 --> 00:33:20,710
and it was obvious to everybody that
he wasn't wearing a wedding ring.
480
00:33:21,836 --> 00:33:22,929
I mean, frankly, in my mind,
481
00:33:23,129 --> 00:33:27,217
there was a clear change
in his priorities over that period.
482
00:33:44,276 --> 00:33:47,153
I met Carlos at a gala in New York.
483
00:33:47,904 --> 00:33:53,409
I was on a high because, he was
super charming and super charismatic.
484
00:33:54,328 --> 00:33:56,546
I mean, when he walks into the room,
485
00:33:56,746 --> 00:34:02,511
you feel how powerful he is
in his character and his intelligence,
486
00:34:02,711 --> 00:34:07,591
and... when he walks
in a room, everyone looks at him.
487
00:34:08,842 --> 00:34:11,812
I... I was, magnetized by her.
488
00:34:12,012 --> 00:34:14,014
I... I... I liked her instantly.
489
00:34:14,597 --> 00:34:18,809
Very joyful person,
very spontaneous, very pretty.
490
00:34:19,352 --> 00:34:21,688
So, for me, it was, "Wow."
491
00:34:22,188 --> 00:34:24,533
I guess this is when the spark
happened between us
492
00:34:24,733 --> 00:34:27,568
and, we started seeing each other.
493
00:34:30,195 --> 00:34:32,790
Carole is a lot more glamorous than Rita.
494
00:34:32,990 --> 00:34:36,211
She's kind of this tall blonde,
loves to have fun.
495
00:34:36,411 --> 00:34:41,749
She definitely has an aura,
and she likes the finer things in life.
496
00:34:42,918 --> 00:34:46,430
People criticized me, that,
"Since he met her, he's changed.
497
00:34:46,630 --> 00:34:48,181
He's become more superficial."
498
00:34:48,381 --> 00:34:50,642
But maybe it was the phase of his life.
499
00:34:50,842 --> 00:34:52,978
Maybe 'cause when you're happy,
and you're in love,
500
00:34:53,178 --> 00:34:54,354
you wanna do fun things.
501
00:34:54,554 --> 00:34:58,308
You change.
It's not all about business.
502
00:35:11,238 --> 00:35:14,916
The party in Versailles,
paid for by Renault and Nissan,
503
00:35:15,116 --> 00:35:17,160
it was meant to be celebrating
the alliance.
504
00:35:19,079 --> 00:35:22,874
But if you look at the guest list,
it is majority friends and family.
505
00:35:23,917 --> 00:35:26,845
There was his lawyers, his kids,
506
00:35:27,045 --> 00:35:30,756
people who he knew from his days
in Lebanon, from his old school.
507
00:35:32,592 --> 00:35:33,477
All of these people there,
508
00:35:33,677 --> 00:35:35,604
essentially not because they had
anything to do with the alliance,
509
00:35:35,804 --> 00:35:39,274
but because they had
a personal or business relationship
510
00:35:39,474 --> 00:35:41,226
with Carlos Ghosn himself.
511
00:35:43,061 --> 00:35:46,355
And it was on his birthday,
which was a bad look.
512
00:35:47,399 --> 00:35:50,619
Ladies and gentlemen, and dear friends,
513
00:35:50,819 --> 00:35:52,070
good evening and welcome.
514
00:35:52,571 --> 00:35:57,417
As some of you know,
this month marks the 15th anniversary
515
00:35:57,617 --> 00:35:59,836
of the Renault-Nissan Alliance.
516
00:36:00,036 --> 00:36:02,289
While that's not why we are gathered here,
517
00:36:03,290 --> 00:36:06,677
the anniversary did make us
realize the time was right
518
00:36:06,877 --> 00:36:10,764
to thank those
who have helped our alliance
519
00:36:10,964 --> 00:36:13,600
grow and prosper.
520
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,269
He has a speech saying,
521
00:36:16,469 --> 00:36:21,358
"Thank you, to all of you, for what
you've done to support the alliance."
522
00:36:21,558 --> 00:36:24,528
But actually, what they've done
is just supported Carlos Ghosn.
523
00:36:24,728 --> 00:36:26,196
And so, we get into this problem of,
524
00:36:26,396 --> 00:36:29,065
like, "Where does Carlos Ghosn end?
Where does the alliance start?"
525
00:36:32,277 --> 00:36:35,622
If you celebrate 15 years of the alliance,
526
00:36:35,822 --> 00:36:41,620
it would not seem completely unnatural
to invite the guy who created it.
527
00:36:43,413 --> 00:36:45,040
And this was not the case.
528
00:36:46,124 --> 00:36:48,168
I was not invited.
529
00:36:49,544 --> 00:36:54,466
Therefore, I did not consider it
a celebration of 15 years of the alliance.
530
00:36:56,551 --> 00:36:59,554
There was quite a lot of
resentment in the company.
531
00:37:00,931 --> 00:37:03,971
He was enjoying the fruits of his labor
rather more than he should have been.
532
00:37:09,397 --> 00:37:12,567
Ghosn was no demigod in France,
533
00:37:13,235 --> 00:37:17,280
and having those parties
at Versailles was a mistake.
534
00:37:20,033 --> 00:37:25,372
It was a sign of the risks associated
with having strong personality.
535
00:37:25,956 --> 00:37:31,253
That is the risk
of losing touch... with reality.
536
00:37:33,797 --> 00:37:34,931
French carmaker, Renault,
537
00:37:35,131 --> 00:37:39,519
has seen its shares rise up at 8%
after reports of merger negotiations
538
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:41,480
with its Japanese partner, Nissan.
539
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:44,766
Neither Renault nor Nissan
have commented on the situation.
540
00:37:45,517 --> 00:37:49,321
There was always,
from the day Carlos Ghosn became CEO,
541
00:37:49,521 --> 00:37:55,402
a fear within Nissan that eventually
the alliance would become a merger.
542
00:37:56,486 --> 00:37:58,789
But he's always said,
"Mergers don't work in the auto industry.
543
00:37:58,989 --> 00:38:00,040
I don't want a merger."
544
00:38:00,240 --> 00:38:02,325
I cannot make one team
545
00:38:03,451 --> 00:38:05,003
of Japanese and French,
546
00:38:05,203 --> 00:38:08,507
managing a company which would
be neither Japanese nor French.
547
00:38:08,707 --> 00:38:09,716
It doesn't work.
548
00:38:09,916 --> 00:38:12,135
But then what Ghosn is saying changes.
549
00:38:12,335 --> 00:38:15,797
Will Nissan and Renault be merged?
550
00:38:16,673 --> 00:38:17,641
- Will it look different?
- Um,
551
00:38:17,841 --> 00:38:19,142
- nobody can answer this question.
- Okay.
552
00:38:19,342 --> 00:38:20,727
- Then next question.
- Nobody.
553
00:38:20,927 --> 00:38:24,231
At that point, the Japanese
are completely alarmed that they...
554
00:38:24,431 --> 00:38:26,274
they cannot trust him.
555
00:38:26,474 --> 00:38:28,735
Nissan-Renault looking
to make their marriage official,
556
00:38:28,935 --> 00:38:31,897
and reports say now
they may officially merge.
557
00:38:34,649 --> 00:38:36,410
There was a group of people that feared
558
00:38:36,610 --> 00:38:41,957
that the merger would erase Nissan
as the Japanese company that it is,
559
00:38:42,157 --> 00:38:44,751
and it would also install Ghosn,
in their telling,
560
00:38:44,951 --> 00:38:49,047
as almost like this pharaoh,
top of the pyramid, ruler for life,
561
00:38:49,247 --> 00:38:52,666
godlike character
that would be not removable in the future.
562
00:38:55,128 --> 00:38:59,174
As a head of Nissan,
I need to protect the company.
563
00:38:59,799 --> 00:39:02,093
This is my duty.
564
00:39:03,428 --> 00:39:04,638
That was my position.
565
00:39:07,307 --> 00:39:09,818
Ghosn was thinking
about a merger, I'm sure.
566
00:39:10,018 --> 00:39:14,531
But I think bigger than that,
Carlos Ghosn was obsessed
567
00:39:14,731 --> 00:39:18,693
with his standing in the industry.
568
00:39:21,613 --> 00:39:23,197
He wanted the adulation.
569
00:39:25,367 --> 00:39:29,454
He wanted very clearly to be,
in control of the...
570
00:39:29,955 --> 00:39:33,833
The biggest car company in the world,
but he also wanted to be paid for it.
571
00:39:38,046 --> 00:39:41,007
I think Ghosn believes that money
is part of your scorecard,
572
00:39:41,758 --> 00:39:44,770
what he calls your "scorecard,"
which is, like, part of your worth, right?
573
00:39:44,970 --> 00:39:45,937
Your self-worth.
574
00:39:46,137 --> 00:39:51,518
And so, if you make lots of money,
then to him, you're worth more.
575
00:39:53,144 --> 00:39:55,730
I... I have always looked for autonomy,
576
00:39:56,231 --> 00:40:01,444
which means that you don't depend on
other people to conduct your own life.
577
00:40:02,028 --> 00:40:04,030
So, when you say money is important,
578
00:40:05,156 --> 00:40:07,793
you should put it
in this context of autonomy.
579
00:40:07,993 --> 00:40:13,665
Intellectual autonomy, emotional autonomy,
physical autonomy, and financial autonomy.
580
00:40:20,672 --> 00:40:23,600
So later, I got access
to the contents of Ghosn's phone,
581
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,177
which were a bit of a Rosetta Stone
in this case.
582
00:40:31,349 --> 00:40:32,734
And in one of his phone notes,
583
00:40:32,934 --> 00:40:35,979
investigators believe that he's
tallying up his wealth across the world.
584
00:40:36,855 --> 00:40:39,950
He has 52 million in Japan,
62 million in Europe,
585
00:40:40,150 --> 00:40:41,702
31.5 million in Switzerland,
586
00:40:41,902 --> 00:40:45,322
39 million in Lebanon,
97 million in America.
587
00:40:46,031 --> 00:40:49,501
And then he writes at
the bottom...
588
00:40:49,701 --> 00:40:52,329
which means,
"Complete through merger to a billion."
589
00:40:58,376 --> 00:40:59,177
Breaking news.
590
00:40:59,377 --> 00:41:02,631
Nissan's chairman,
Carlos Ghosn has been arrested.
591
00:41:05,842 --> 00:41:08,645
Carlos Ghosn has been held
in solitary confinement.
592
00:41:08,845 --> 00:41:10,555
We were scared.
593
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:13,892
They wanted me to turn on Carlos Ghosn.
594
00:41:15,143 --> 00:41:17,229
I think he is a man who committed a crime.
595
00:41:18,230 --> 00:41:20,310
Is it half a chance it is a palace coup?
596
00:41:22,317 --> 00:41:23,401
Who are you people?
597
00:41:24,486 --> 00:41:27,489
I don't think we've ever seen
a scandal like this,
598
00:41:28,114 --> 00:41:31,084
where there are things that were found
that don't pass the smell test.
599
00:41:31,284 --> 00:41:34,412
There was a light at the end
of the tunnel, and I was that light.
600
00:41:35,163 --> 00:41:37,374
My mission was to get him out of there.
51154
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