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So we're going to turn
our heads toward comedy.

There are new kinds of comedies
that become cult,

and one of which
is a picture

called "Fast Times at Ridgemont High"

is another movie that found its
audience long after it was new.

One of the staples of cult films

is randy teenagers
doing terrible things.

When Sean Penn comes on screen
as Spicoli,

for a moment or 70,

I thought
where did they get this guy?

It seemed like a non-pro.

They had found a surfer

and just threw him
in this thing.

It captures a moment in time,

like L.A. at that time I think,

you know, when we were
back on the East Coast.

It seems like this is what
living in Los Angeles is like.

Everyone had their favorites.

You know, I was of
the Judge Reinhold.

I loved him.

If those performances
do live on,

along with the originality
of the story

and the storytelling,

it resonates with people
for much longer.

It's a slice of life
of growing up.

I owe my life to Sean Penn.

I know that dude.

Mr. Spicoli.

That's the name they gave me.

"Fast Times at Ridgemont High"

is a year in the life
of this high school.

Cameron Crowe, the writer,

went underground and sort of
embedded in high school.

He was like maybe 20.

And he befriended
a number of students

and got very close to them
and wrote a book.

Really very true to life,

and you just feel like
you've been in high school.

It just transcends generations.

You know, Damone,

I noticed I was starting
to get a pimple this morning...

Rat, the shyness routine is
really starting to aggravate me.

You know, I've got 14-year-old
kids coming up to me

like, oh, my God, man,
I love your Damone.

Hey, you got any tickets?

Got any Blue Oyster Cult?

No, I don't have any
Blue Oyster Cult.

I ate 34 pairs last time around.
Where were you?

I was that close to working
at 7-Eleven, you know.

To me, "Fast Times
at Ridgemont High"

stands out among all the other
eighties teen movies

because it has this credibility

that you just don't see
in the other ones.

I mean, it's the first time
you ever have a sex scene

between a young girl and a boy
from the woman's point of view.

You know, she's looking up,
I guess they're in a dugout.

I think they see "Surf Nazis"
or something.

And we're really seeing
not this romanticized nudity,

but this kind of grotty uncomfortableness.

And later the character
will say, you know, I realize...

I don't want sex.
Anyone can have sex.

Yeah, Stacy, what do you want?

I just want a relationship.

And it's so honest.

I really wanted to stick
to that whole idea of a year

and what happens to the people
and their character arcs

over the course of a year.

That was my skull.

I'm so wasted.

Don't worry, Spicoli.

You'll probably squeak by.
Yeah!

I think a lot of teen movies
have the sense

that nothing you do while
you're in high school matters,

and therefore the film itself

doesn't think
any of it really matters.

It's just fun,
it's just comedy, it's hijinks,

there's like panty raids

and people
getting pie in the face

and giant cafeteria food fights.

But "Fast Times" takes
a kid's struggle seriously.

Like a kid wants to work
at this restaurant

and not that restaurant.

And when you're an adult,

you might think
that that's silly,

but for the kid, it makes all
the difference in the world.

It says 100% guaranteed,
you moron.

Mister, if you don't shut up,

I'm going to kick
100% of your ass.

And it has a really nice
balance and sympathy

between the female characters
and the male characters.

And I think
that's one of the things

that makes it a mass cult movie
or a universal cult movie.

The thing that strikes me
about our cast

and why I think people
connect with this movie

is everybody was so serious
about their craft.

You know,
it takes a lot of courage

to get up here and do something

that you know
people will make fun of.

For me, most of the fun
was going down to the set

when I wasn't working
and watching everybody else.

Like sitting and watching
Sean Penn do a scene,

and I'd think to myself,
my God, the guy's good.

I've been thinking
about this, Mr. Hand.

If I'm here and you're here,
doesn't that make it our time?

Oh, gnarley.

Wait a minute. There's no
birthday party for me here.

And Sean, he'd never really
smoked pot in his life.

He was completely
in character at all times.

Hey, Bud, let's party.

When Damone
gives the five-point plan,

he tells Ratner
to put on a certain album.

Now this
is most important, Rat.

When it comes down
to making out,

whenever possible put on
side one of Led Zeppelin IV.

You know, almost every day
somebody comes up to me

and says, you know when you say

put on side one
of Led Zeppelin IV

and "Kashmir" comes on?

That's the wrong song.

The song "Kashmir" was so
wonderfully scary and ominous

that it just felt like,
oh, my God, I'm on a date.

What am I going to do?
It was like, you know.

I don't know if I can hum, but...

So either Mark Ratner
didn't have that album

or they already
played that album

and now they're up
to the next one.

it's like one of those things
that's up for interpretation.

Universal Pictures presents

everything you always
wanted to do in high school.

See "Fast Times
at Ridgemont High."

When we first showed
"Fast Times"

in a screening
for a recruited audience,

what does this movie need
or what would you add?

And one person wrote, more muff.

Yeah, the movie
had an X rating

because of the scene
in the pool house.

When I knew

that we were going to have this
character lose her virginity,

that that meant naked women
and guys with their shirts off.

And I thought, well,
that's not right.

What if both people were naked?

I can't remember
if it was frontal nudity

or side-al nudity.

And when the studio
saw the cut

and sent it to the rating board,

the rating board said
that's an automatic X.

Are you okay?

Uh, I think I came.

Didn't you feel it?

Yeah, I guess I did.

I think that they said

you can't have that scene
and the carrot scene,

so you got to have
one or the other.

You've never given
a blow job? Never?

Stace, there's nothing to it.
It's so easy.

Relax your throat muscles.

Don't bite.

Slide it in.

Go ahead.

So I think they cut down
the pool house scene.

When Phoebe Cates
comes out of the water,

I think
that was every boy's fantasy

and like Phoebe Cates
became this like icon

of what was beautiful
in the eighties.

Oh, my God. That was like
pulling teeth with her.

"You don't really need it.
You don't..."

"Yes, I do."

Oh, wait just a minute.

I love Amy Heckerling.

Like a great teacher
who works with the student,

she gives them what they need.

I thought this is somebody
I can learn from.

When it was time
for the movie to be coming out,

the studio was kind of wary.

I didn't see anything that was
really so horrible and shocking

that we did
in the movie, myself.

They thought, well,
nobody's going to like this

except maybe some people
in California.

But I did get a phone call
from a friend,

who said, they might not
release the movie.

So they had a release
of 200 theaters

and only on the West Coast.

Just everything sunk.

I felt like my teeth
must've fallen out of my mouth

or, you know, my heart
fell to my ankles.

And they thought, oh, well,

we'll put it out in the rest
of the country real quick

with no advertising or anything.

How could they do
something like that?

And thank goodness I was right,

because now we're in
the Library of Congress.

I guess when you put
all the talent together

and you put Cameron Crowe
and Amy Heckerling

and a little bit of mojo,

it became
a lot more than that, you know.

I'm very surprised that it
gets all the accolades it does

because I just remember
making it,

going, oh, I hope
this makes enough money

so that I could do
another movie.

The fact that anybody knows it
so many years later

is just shocking to me.

The thing about a Corman movie

is you'll get, you know,
the lowest salary in the world

and that there's nothing else.

You have to make everything up.

Blowing up the high school.

That was the hook that made
Roger really want to make it.

Hi, everybody.
I'm Riff Randall

and this is
Rock 'N' Roll High School.

So the plot
to "Rock 'N' Roll High School?"

It's very simple.

The school authorities hate
rock music and want to stop it.

Riff Randall
lives for rock music.

Riff Randall is desperate
to get one of her songs

to her favorite band
the Ramones.

She gets in trouble
with the school,

and the principal takes all
their rock 'n' roll records

and burns them.

So Riff and the school
authorities bump heads.

Ultimately we take over
the high school.

The Ramones arrive,
they have a concert,

and they blow up the school.

My character
is the heroine of the movie.

Simple.

It had all the ingredients

nonconformist characters,

rebellious young people,
you know.

It's like "Animal House,"
except in a high school.

Allan said he saw me
in "Halloween."

He'd seen me in "Carrie,"

and I auditioned three times.

I was 28 years old at the time.

Yes. I don't think age
ever came up.

I had the energy.

In fact, I spent all
of my intended to be salary,

which was $2,100...

on my wardrobe
once I got the part.

And then I said to Allan,
what is your choice?

And he said P.J.

I said we're in
a great situation here

because P.J. is my choice, too.

P. J. Soles' character

was just this bubbly ball
of energy.

She was kind of like Sandra Dee
to the nth degree.

Riff Randall.

Just the way she says, I'm
Riff Randall, rock 'n' roller.

And who are you?

I'm Riff Randall,
rock 'n' roller.

I just love that.

Miss Togar. Okay,
let's talk about Miss Togar.

Mary was sort of an in-house
favorite here.

Everybody loved her performance
in "Death Race,"

and she just seemed right
for Miss Togar.

She loves to be really nasty.

Oh, really?

And she knows no bounds.

skirts below their knees.

above their collar.

She could just do
whatever she likes,

and she's just
a horrible person.

If this school is going to get
back on the winning track,

we have to start cracking down immediately.

And I know just where to begin.

So I was perfect.

I knew then, all of a sudden
once I met Mary,

that she had been a whip dancer
for the Velvet Underground,

which raised her beyond category

in my book of people
I want to know.

And she was the funniest person.

she is the number one guest star

on the most popular episode
of "Charlie's Angels" ever.

She plays the prison warden

in the episode
where the Angels go to prison.

Get cute in here
and you can get hurt.

Everybody just worked together
so hard.

And we all agreed that
the best line in the movie was,

do your parents
know you're Ramones?

Do your parents know
that you're Ramones?

August 12th of 1964,

and I saw the first evening show
of "Hard Days Night."

Richard Lester's style

and the editing

and the attitude,
the us versus them.

Are you a mod or a rocker?

Oh, no, I'm a mocker.

The sense of the younger
people knowing something

that the older people didn't.

So that was a huge influence.

The idea behind it originally
was to feature Cheap Trick,

who were just sort of
coming into their own then.

And I'm not sure what happened.

They were touring
and they were starting to break.

They wanted $50,000.

What about the Ramones?

"Rocket to Russia"
is a fantastic record.

It has the thing
that's Riff Randall.

She's a girl from the suburbs
who wants to be a punk rocker.

And the thing that I love
about the Ramones

is they are like the Beach Boys
backed with chainsaws.

Allan played their music
for me and said he liked them,

and I thought,
these guys are great.

I agree with you.

I think I left that day

and Allan gave me a cassette
of the Ramones.

He said, okay, go home,
learn these songs,

and, you know,
you're their number one fan.

And we had been listing
to the Eagles and Linda Ronstadt

and Jackson Browne
and Joni Mitchell.

And I pressed play
and we're like, is that music?

We were freaking out.

I was with the Beatles
and the Rolling Stones

at a previous time,

but the Ramones
are now my favorite group.

The Ramones?

I worked with
the Velvet Underground.

Ramones?

Not at all.

As a matter of fact,
I thought they were nuts.

They stayed in a room
the whole time.

They only demanded a TV

and something like, you know,
potato chips every 24 hours.

They were insane.

But they did
whatever they were told.

They weren't very good
at lines,

and Dee Dee couldn't remember...

I think the line is,
pizza, I want some.

- Hey, pizza. Great.
- Let's dig in.

Yeah, I want some.

I think that was like
12 takes.

They were so sweet.

Just sweet, and half of them
were pretty stupid.

It was just brilliant
to cast them

because they are 50%, 80%
of the movie I would say.

We talked about the set,

and they basically told me
they wanted to start

with "Hey, Ho, Let's Go."

And they really didn't
want to do "She's The One,"

but they did
because that was the story.

Love, your number one fan,
Riff Randall.

When you work for Roger,
you've got to be really smart.

In order to stage the concert
at the Rockatorium,

we put up flyers everywhere

and we charged the extras money
to be in the movie.

They did
all these stings, man.

They would turn the clocks back

so they didn't
have to pay overtime.

Everyone knew
it was going to be the Ramones

were going to be playing
all day long,

and it was only two bucks
to go see them.

I'm mean, these people
weren't actors.

They were just people,
you know,

supposedly going to see a show.

So if you look
in the audience,

it is the L.A. punk scene.

You can point them out.
Darby Crash is at the front row.

And then
we blow up the high school.

I remember everybody saying,
do not stay near the school,

do not stay near the school.

Because Corman
used to use this guy.

And this guy's name
was Three Fingered Harry.

And then you heard
he had a weird reputation

for like loving
to blow things up.

And I had worked with
Three Fingered Harry before.

And you knew that when Harry
said this is going to blow up

and you'll be safe
if you stand there,

everyone in the crew
backed up 50 feet.

Then he blew too much up.

And the Ramones all thought
it was the greatest.

That's their favorite thing.

When the school blew up,

I mean, they just thought
that was so cool.

The fan base
for "Rock 'N' Roll High School"

almost seems to grow.

For instance,
I was there with Allan

at a screening in the
Hollywood Cemetery at midnight,

where against one wall

they played
"Rock 'N' Roll High School."

And the cemetery was filled.

It was probably
the most lively night

that cemetery had ever seen.

One of the things
that makes the movie work

that I think
is one of the things

that makes cult movies work,

that they are like albums.

You play it over and over again
because you love it.

And then you play it
over and over again

because as time goes on,

you remember how you felt
when you first played it.

And that goes round and round.

And that's why
they become cult movies.

It's a very simple plot.

It's essentially
"Romeo and Juliet"

in Hollywood and the Valley.

But nobody dies in the end.

Hot. Very hot.

Which one?

If you take
the "Romeo and Juliet" idea

and apply it to anything,
it's just a good idea.

I mean, let's leave the party.

I'm so sure.

Well, here's
what I'll tell you

about the use of Val speak
in the movie.

Scarfing up everything
in sight. I'm sure.

I don't know, you know like,
oh, I get so fat and all.

And what happened to my zits?
I get so grotty.

We made an earnest effort

to infuse it
in the beginning of the movie,

sort of set that world,
define that universe,

and I think the audience

sort of takes that with them
throughout was the plan.

Right, and I tell everybody

I covered up
not knowing Valley girl.

I did listen to Valley girls,

but I thought the way for me

to justify my character Loryn
being a Valley girl

was that she had the secret,

which was that
she really was from Malibu.

So like she sort of talked
like a surfer chick, really.

But that's kind of like Valley,
like for sure.

Your mom's so cool.

Your mom is so bitchin', Suzi.

Give me that back, Loryn.

You're too small for that.

I am not too small.

I look totally hot in this.
Totally.

You know, it's like that.
So it just kind of worked.

Because "Valley Girl"
takes place in Hollywood

and the San Fernando Valley
of the 1980s,

and we had to make a difference
between them,

the film itself
sort of looks at both cultures

and tries to tell us something

about how they feel
about themselves.

Why don't you get out of here?

You make me get out of here.

Because the Valley people
in my movie

hate the Hollywood people,
and the Hollywood people

hate the Valley people
more than reality.

I made that
more of an important fiction.

I really started getting
a little irritated

because all the guys that came
in for Randy were gorgeous.

And I said, you know,
let's look at some other people.

Let's look at some people

who are not gorgeous
in the traditional sense.

And I went over
to the reject pile,

and at the top of the
reject pile was Nicholas Cage.

So I picked up the picture,
held it up,

and said why don't you bring in
him and people like this?

I said, he's great.
That's our Randy.

One of the things that
would help make the clarity

between the Valley
and Hollywood obvious

was if I had a tough band
playing the Hollywood band.

I wanted X

because I thought they were
really different and radical,

and they were very interested.

Then we read the script

and thought
this is a fucking dumb movie.

Why do we want to be in that?

I mean, I guess
it's a cult thing

and, you know, Nicholas Cage
is in it and all that shit.

But like...

Whatever.

We ended up going to
the Plimsouls, which was great.

I mean,
I was a huge Plimsouls fan,

so when they, you know,
came into it,

I was really excited.

I remember Nick was like,
we got Frederic Forrest.

I'm like,
we got the Plimsouls.

I mean, "Melt With You"
and " Million Miles Away"

which I'd heard
before "Valley Girl,"

and I just thought
that's an anthem.

Back then, all these movies
were about getting laid.

Our movie was not about
getting laid at all.

Our movie
was about being in love,

and I think that's what made it
a surprise success

and I think that's
what's made it enduring.

We were not aware
of the circumstances

that the actors
were living under.

Yeah, Nick did live
in his car.

Once I found that out,

I said, Nick,
you can't live in your car.

This is before cell phones,
too, you know,

so they'd have to just kind of
trust he was going to be there.

Want a light?

Hey, fuck you, scum.

But he was so there
and so solid.

You're a dumb
son of a bitch, man.

Guys like that will kill you.

Fuck 'em.

Everyone dated Nick
at that time.

Everyone was making out
with everyone at that time.

I made out with Nick
at that time, too.

Everybody did.

- Yeah.
- It was just that movie

where it was like, you made out
with Nick in the trailer?

So did I. I made out
with Nick in the trailer.

It was like everybody
was making out with everyone.

That's what happens
when you do a movie sometimes.

I've got flexible hours.

Deborah and Nick were seeing
each other at one point.

So I didn't find out

until the very end of the film
that they were dating.

Don't tell me what to do.

You have no control
over my life.

Because there was a day
when she just couldn't...

Neither one of them could act.

That was it.

It was just like breaking up
at the door.

They couldn't act.

I love you.

That's all I wanted to say.

So we had to close down
for a sec

and I had to talk to them both
and separate them

and, you know, do all that.

And that's when they said,
no, we're dating,

and I suddenly realized,
oh, my God,

that's not going to work out,
not at all.

Just forget
I ever tried to save you

from your miserable existence.

Cameron Dye
was such a great guy.

He was so easy to work with,
so fun, full of energy,

full of ideas,
and a great bounce off for Nick.

It was a very good combo.

Come off that, man.

Hey, look, if you want
this girl so bad,

why don't you do
something about it?

Why wasn't Deborah Foreman
on the poster?

You should call Deborah Foreman
and ask her.

Debbie had said
to the producers, I didn't know,

that she wanted to be paid.

The distributor
was not going to pay her

to come in and do promotion

for a movie that she should be
thrilled to support and promote.

But that's not the way
she saw it.

And so they called her bluff
and they hired a model. Sad.

I feel badly.

I mean, my leading lady
of "Valley Girl"

is not in the poster,
which is too bad.

Because you know what?

"Valley Girl" got out there,
people saw it,

I was aware of that,
and that got me a career.

So that was what, in a way,
"Valley Girl" really counted as.

I wanted a film that
you could get more out of

if you saw it more than once.

I forget sometimes
it's a cult film, you know.

It's like
a lot of people saw it.

It wasn't a blockbuster or,
you know, a big budget movie.

People stop me and say, it was
so much a part of my growing up,

and that's a great thing
to hear.

And those pieces of that movie
that were so comforting

you get to carry with you
for decades

and decades after that

and share it
with the people that you love.

And those to me are the movies
that we all hope to make.

"Napoleon Dynamite."

Have we talked at all

about like production design
in these movies,

how sometimes that actually
adds to the, you know...

People that are essentially
teenagers and outsiders

and you go to a movie

and you see a cool T-shirt
or a cool hairdo

or someone's wearing a vintage
leather jacket, you know,

you pick up upon those things.

But wasn't it
insanely successful?

There is a cult aspect
to that.

- No big stars, you know.
- Right.

It's purely on word-of-mouth.

It's purely people
who love the movie.

But that's the essence of cult
is it's passed down.

Turning people on to it.

- And you can't spend money.
- The advertising can't buy it.

Was Napoleon Dynamite, did he
look like a nerd Eraserhead?

A little bit. Giant glasses,
big curly blond hair.

Yeah, but that look
then became very popular.

Everybody needed their
"Vote for Pedro," you know.

And carrying tater tots
in your pocket became okay.

Tater tots
became very popular.

- Yeah, well, thankfully.
- Re-popular.

There are people today
in the rap field, you know,

that just like,
man, you Lafawnduh?

Like I got to call you
Lafawnduh forever.

If I have one regret in life,

it's that I didn't take
those pants.

Most people either request or
say what's your favorite line?

It's probably,
Tina, you fat lard.

Come get some dinner.

Tina, you fat lard.
Come get some dinner.

You know, the thing about cult
films I think that it just...

I mean, it just takes
any paradigm

and kind of turns it on its side
a little bit.

The film became
a piece of pop culture

because it was its own thing,
and it didn't reference.

It was one of those films,

and I think what helps it
to live on

through different generations,

is because there's
a timelessness to it.

I think the thing that makes
that film resonate is the...

That, too.
The universality.

He's an underdog, and I think
that type of story...

Never gets old.

I mean, there was the struggle

that everybody was having.

I mean, you know, Kip
was chatting with babes online

and then deciding to go to,
you know, kung fu school.

And Napoleon
was just trying to figure out

where he fit in the world.

I mean, everybody
was just trying to just fit.

This was really to me

capturing the essence
of what a loser/nerd/geek/

really kind of
underdog character.

Plus I read it,
and I was like, this is me.

This is me
and my younger brothers.

The side ponytail,
the little fountain.

Your hair looked great today.

The crimped hair.
Those hairstyles

did come from my childhood.

I think that everybody
relates to him

in different ways as well,

because it's either
you share qualities with him

or you knew somebody in school
like him.

Jared and his wife Jerusha,

they built this perfect script

that had like every single line
was a great line.

What did you do
all last summer again?

I told you. I spent it
with my uncle in Alaska

hunting wolverines.

Napoleon, don't be jealous,

that I've been chatting online
with babes all day.

Besides, we both know
I'm training

to become a cage fighter.

Have you ever heard
of nylon polymer?

Napoleon,
give me some of your tots.

No. Go find your own.

Would you like
to look like this?

It took me like three hours

to finish the shading
on your upper lip.

All the drawings in the film
were done by me,

except I will give credit
to our art director,

who did do the unicorn
at the very beginning.

"Napoleon" draws you in

because it has a very
distinctive feel to it.

And once you're in it,
you're in it to win it.

You cannot turn it off.

We didn't really think of it
as a comedy,

even though we were like,
well, yeah.

But it's its own kind of genre.

It's just a film that
captures these weird people.

It was probably the silliest
funniest read of a script

I've ever read.

Basically, my manager had sent
it to me, and he was like...

They were like,
I don't get it.

These guys have no money.

They have no money.

We don't know who they are.

There's nobody in it.

I don't think
you should do it.

Why do you want to do it?

And I was like,
because it's great.

I'm coming. I'll do it.

I'll be there.
Tell them I'll drive.

Jared Hess, who wrote
and directed the film,

he grew up in Preston,

and the film itself
was pretty much a memoir

of his growing up experiences

and the experiences
of his younger brothers.

I know he knew that the nerd
world should be respected.

Yeah, that they are
as equally sexual and fun

and zazzy
and all this other good jazz.

The dance scene at the end
was, uh...

I just felt...
well, this is what I do

when I mess around
with my friends.

And I think
that's kind of the spirit

that Jared wants to capture,

so I'll just freestyle it.

And we just did three takes,

and then they just kind of
took the best bits.

And I kept the original
"Vote For Pedro" T-shirt,

which I then later traded in
for one of the original...

What do they call them?
From Harry Potter.

The little golden snitches.
Yeah.

That's pretty sweet.

After we shot the film,

we had found out
that Napoleon Dynamite

was actually an alter ego

created for some
Elvis Costello album.

We knew
we had something special

when the whole town of Sundance,
everyone came to see our movie.

And there were no spots available.

It was 11:00 at night

and people were
packing in there angrily

to get to see this movie.

We knew we had
something different,

and we were perplexed.

To have people receive it
the way that they did,

you can't even describe it
as icing on the cake

because it's so much more
than that.

It's amazing,

and I know that'll probably
never happen again.

- People had signs.
- Lafawnduh, Lafawnduh.

I'm like, what is this?

Honestly, it humbles my spirit.

We're so thankful
and so grateful.

Oh, do I have a favorite scene
in the movie?

When he was doing the egg

and they were all
trying to tell the guys

and they were paying him
in pennies and coins.

And you didn't know
what he was saying then.

Over there in that creek, man,

I found a couple
of Shoshone arrowheads.

$6.00.

That's like a dollar an hour.

You know, in the script
it says

that he talks like
a professional wrestler,

so I think
I got it all from that.

Come down today
for your free trial lesson.

Break the wrist, walk away.

Break the wrist, walk away.

The other hand.
My other hand.

Grab my arm.
The other arm.

My other arm.

Okay, now watch this.

I'm just going to break
the wrist and walk away.

Break the wrist, walk away.

Jeez.

The scene where Uncle Rico
throws the steak.

Like most films, you have
some prop guy, you know.

They kept throwing
and throwing and missing.

I don't know, it could have been
10, 15 times.

And it just would always
like maybe nick my hair

or get right by me.

Finally Jared Hess was saying,

hey, I think we should move in

and just shoot it close
and just hit him close.

And I just said if you do that,
you've ruined the joke.

And finally it was actually
John Gries...

- Watch this.
- Who said, you know what? No.

Look, I played baseball
in high school and in college.

Let me do this.

This is supposed to be me anyways.

So he grabs it,
and I'm riding on a bike.

He has to hit me
while I'm moving.

- It was a moving target.
- I said I can hit him.

I've just got
to chuck that steak.

And then Heder was like,
so chuck it.

And he hucks it.

Uh!

What the heck are you doing?

That's what I'm talking about.

And that's the take,

that's the shot
where it just nails me.

The slap was resounding,

and everybody had to stop
from laughing.

And I remember
it took every ounce of effort

to like not lose it,
not break character.

I wanted to laugh.
I wanted to like, ow!

I'm good with the word cult
for our film.

I define it
for "Napoleon Dynamite"

embracing your individuality.

Cult that.

"Napoleon" will live forever.

Every time there's an adolescent
who feels like an outsider,

it's a movie that's
going to be their go to.

You know, everybody
that lives in a small town

is going to love it.

It's something that everyone
can associate with.

It's a great American movie.

Kevin Smith's "Clerks"
is this black and white comedy

that's a portrait
of a day in the life

of a convenience store clerk
named Dante,

loosely inspired
by Kevin Smith himself.

- Are you open?
- Yes.

I'm not even supposed
to be here today.

When you think about

what makes an interesting
cult director,

a lot of what
we're thinking about

is somebody who comes from
outside the mainstream.

They didn't rise up
through the NYU ranks,

they're not related
to anybody in Hollywood.

They're a complete outsider.

And in 1994, I don't know

if you got much more outside
that Kevin Smith.

Right, I came from

a lower, lower,
lower middle-class family.

Like my mom's always proud
of like,

we almost went on food stamps
once. Almost.

So that's how broke we were.

So when I fell in love
with film,

I was like, I have no money
to pay for this.

I think what made "Clerks"
such a cult favorite

is that it's so relatable
to almost everybody.

Everybody at one point

has either worked
a shitty clerking job

or they've been in a store
with shitty clerks.

Well, this is the last time
I rent here.

You'll be missed.

Screw you!

Hey, you're not allowed
to rent here anymore!

Yeah!

When you show people
in the workplace,

you're holding up a mirror
to the world.

And, you know, look,

not everyone works
at a convenience store,

but everybody's
had a shitty job.

And everybody knows
the convenience store

is the crossroads
of the world, man.

The highest born and the lowest
of low cross the threshold.

Everyone needs milk
and cigarettes, right?

I'm stuck in this pit working
for less than slave wages.

"Clerks" is, of course,

the wet dream
of any independent cinema maker.

You make this film

in some hellish convenience
store in Jersey for $10,

and then Miramax gives you,
you know,

three dump trucks full of money
and you get a career.

Kevin Smith's story
with "Clerks"

is he'd been working
at the same convenience store

since he was 19 years old.

And finally he's like, well,
this is the setting of my movie.

If I can make a movie anywhere,
I'm going to do it here.

Suddenly there were these
other people giving me a notion

that like, oh,
you could use credit cards

for things that aren't just
like buying Star Wars figures.

You could literally
finance a movie on it.

That guy bought a house on it.

That guy made a movie on it.

Maybe you could do that.

It's this great example

of what a director can do
with limitations.

Because I was working
at this point at RST video,

the video store
that's in the movie "Clerks."

And I was the only one
ever there, right?

So invariably
a credit card company calls,

and they're like,
we're checking

on the credit rating
of Kevin Smith.

I was like,
oh, our store manager.

He makes $50,000 a year.

That's all
we need to know. Bam.

And they would send me
credit cards.

Well, when we shot the movie,
we all had real jobs.

I mean, Kevin
worked at the store.

Kevin asked the permission
of the owner

if he could use the store.

Now, she knew that
he had gone to film school.

I dropped out
of film school early.

I said, hey, man,
I want to shoot a movie

here in the convenience store.
Can I do that?

And they said, oh, yeah.
Just come back to work.

10:30 at night
we'd start making the movie,

and we'd shoot the movie
until 6:00 in the morning

when the store opened again.

Or rather when
I opened the store again.

Comedy really works well

if you can come
from someplace unexpected,

and like a convenience store
in New Jersey at that time

was a pretty unexpected place.

So there's a really filthy
but very funny scene

where he's reading off the names
of increasingly foul porn movies

while he's on the phone
to a distributor.

Okay, I need one each of the

"Whispers In The Wind,"
"To Each His Own,"

"Put It
Where It Doesn't Belong,"

"My Pipes Need Cleaning,"
"All Tit Fucking, Volume 8,"

"I Need Your Cock,"
"Ass Worshiping Rim Jobbers."

Shooting in black and white
was pure cost consideration.

Now, when the movie went to
festivals later on and whatnot,

smart people started seeing it,
they would say things like,

the fact that it's shot
in black and white

gives one the perspective
of the video store monitor,

omnipresent
in every video store.

They thought it was brilliant,
and it was not.

It was necessity being
the mother of invention.

But you better be sure,

I started going out there,
being like,

well, we shot it
in black and white

because it was meant to be
the perspective

of the security store camera
on our boys' lives.

So when I heard that Miramax
picked up the film,

I mean, it was great,
because Miramax at the time

was the kings of bringing out,
you know,

new and independent filmmakers.

This is a movie
that didn't have to be made,

but this figure by sheer force
of will made it happen.

He makes an art-house movie

that somehow gets to Cannes
and Sundance, which is insane.

They put in a million-dollar
mix into the sound mix

and cleaned it up,

blew it up from 16 millimeter
up to 35 millimeter.

Smoking weed, doing coke,
drinking beers.

Pack her ass, my good man.

Time to kick back, drink some
beers, and smoke some weed.

So it was so funny
that they put in more money

than we could have made
like 25 other films

with the 30,000 that
we made the first film with.

Which did you like better,

"Jedi" or
"The Empire Strikes Back?"

- "Empire."
- Blasphemy.

When the film first got rated,
it was rated an NC-17.

NC-17 is a step below rated X,

and that's usually for films
that are extremely violent

or extremely, you know,
explicit sex scenes or whatever,

and we had none of it.

All it was
was because of dialogue.

37. My girlfriend
sucked 37 dicks.

In a row?

Hey, try not to suck any dick
on the way to the parking lot.

Hey, hey, you.
Get back here.

You know what it is?

It's not so much that
my girlfriend sucked 37 dicks.

It's the description
of what snowballing is.

I think that's
what got it for them.

Because even when I read it
in the script,

I was like, what the hell
is snowballing?

After he gets the blow job,

he likes to have it spit back
into his mouth while kissing.

It's called snowballing.

Is that really a thing?

And he's like,
oh, yeah, that's a thing.

I'm like, how do you know this?
Oh, I've read things.

It had never been given
to a movie for language before.

And so the chairman of Miramax

decided that he'd hire
Alan Dershowitz

to represent the movie,
to defend the movie to the MPAA.

So this became
a censorship issue.

And so as we're sitting there,
he's like,

it's an outrage that this movie
has been rated NC-17.

Miramax like blew it up
into this big deal.

They had this letter that they
had a bunch of filmmakers sign.

You know, I was barely a minute
and a half into my career,

and all of a sudden
there was this kind of like,

we, the undersigned,

feel that "Clerks"
should be R, not NC-17.

Martin Scorsese's name was
one of the names on the list.

I was like, this is nuts.

But I do remember that,
of course.

And it was a matter
of one phrase in it

that some of the raters
knew what it meant.

And we went to urban dictionary

and in fact
that is what it meant,

and it was not suitable.

We felt parents would think
it wasn't suitable.

It's as simple as that.

Then I got up
and got to talk about it,

like, I'm a kid myself.

I made this movie.
This is how we talk.

Blah, blah, blah.

We left the theater.

Three minutes later,
they opened the doors

and everyone started coming out.

And some guy came up to me

and said, congratulations,
man. It's sweet.

I can't wait to see that
at midnight at the Laemmle.

I think the concept
of being NC-17 for one joke,

I think they just felt
that it was too harsh.

- We won.
- We flipped the rating.

Like, you know, basically
everyone in the jury

was just like, oh, yeah.

This is not
an NC-17 rated movie.

We didn't have to make
a single cut and stuff.

When it was overturned,
I justified it in my mind,

thinking, most people who
are going to see this movie

aren't going to know
what it means,

so we won't look ridiculous.

"Clerks" was
the greatest thing in the world

that ever happened to me.

It's 25 years
since it's happened,

and I've done many things
since then,

but I still fucking
come back to "Clerks."

One of my favorites
is "Office Space."

I do love "Office Space."

The plot itself
is a little convoluted.

It's kind of set
in workplace America,

a very bland version
of workplace America

that sort of has
all the life sucked out of it.

And it's about a guy
that's not happy there.

Want to go to Chotchkies,
get some coffee?

No, it's a little early.

I got a get out of here.

- I think I'm going to lose it.
- Uh-oh.

Sounds like somebody's
got a case of the Mondays.

What would it look like if
I didn't put up with this shit?

I think that in other movies

and even TV shows
before "The Office,"

people tried
to spike it up a little bit

to make it
kind of fun and funny,

and Mike was like,
no, it's awful.

I just stare at my desk,
but it looks like I'm working.

I do that for probably
another hour after lunch, too.

I'd say in a given week,

I probably only do about
15 minutes of real actual work.

It really is a movie about
the new American economy.

I mean, these deadening
cubicle office jobs.

This was a comedy
about how going forward,

the job you were going to have
was going to suck.

Why does it say paper jam
when there is no paper jam?

I swear to God,
one of these days

I just kick this piece of shit
out the window.

If you want me
to wear 37 pieces of flair

like you're pretty boy
over there, Brian,

why don't you just make
the minimum 37 pieces of flair?

This was Mike's
first live-action movie.

Well, it started out
as an animated short

that I'd done a long time ago.

And when I was doing that,

I was thinking of it more
as possibly a TV show,

but just sort of
a series of vignettes

about just
office character types.

I finally said, well, what if
Milton's a character in it?

If Sandra's going
to listen to her headphones

while she's filing,

then I should be able
to listen to the radio

while I'm collating.
Uh-huh.

So I don't see why I should
have turn down the radio.

Yeah, all right.

I'd love to say
I created this character

and I started from scratch

and I wove this great,
you know, invention.

None of that's true.

All of it was in the animation.

Everything down to the "yeahs"
and the "greats"

and that kind of monotone voice.

So I just stole it
with the director's permission.

I'm going to need you to go
ahead and move your desk again.

So, well, if you could go ahead

and just get it as far back
into that corner as possible,

that would be terrific.
But...

That way
we'll have some more room

for some of these boxes
and things

we need to put in here.

I'm going to have to ask you

to go ahead
and move your desk again.

So if you could go ahead

and get it as far back
against that wall as possible,

that would be great.

No, no, because I just...

That way we'll have some room

for some of these boxes and
things we need to put in here.

Then Fox said why don't you
make a movie like "Car Wash,"

where it's just a bunch of
people that work at this place.

And I thought, okay,
I can do that.

And so I can't remember what
the plot of "Car Wash" was.

I worked up
this Owen Wilson impression,

and I was like,
this is going to be great.

And I was rehearsing it
out in the lobby.

And so it comes my time,

the door opens,
Owen Wilson walks out.

So I go, shit.

I can't do a better impression

than Owen Wilson
can do of Owen Wilson.

Hold it.
This is getting confusing.

So in the doorway, I came up
with the character of Lawrence,

of just a dude, you know,
talks like this, whatever.

It was like literally

just what I came up with
at that exact second.

Hey, she hasn't been over here
in a while.

You two still going out?

Yeah, I guess.
I don't know.

Sometimes I get the feeling
like she's cheating on me.

Yeah, I get that feeling,
too, man.

What do you mean by that?

I don't know, man.

I just get that feeling
looking at her,

like she's the type of chick
that would just... ugh.

I worked at Jack In The Box.

Whenever the manager would say,
yeah, Mike, could you go ahead...

why don't you go ahead
and change the fryers.

Like go ahead,

like I was just chomping
at the bit to go do that.

And I'm just going to turn
you loose on those fryers now,

so you just go ahead
and change those fryers.

If you could just go ahead
and make sure

you do that from now on,
that would be great.

We're going to need to go ahead

and move you downstairs
into storage B.

- No.
- That sounds good, Peter.

And we'll go ahead and get this
all fixed up for you.

The reason it works so well

is because
everybody knows that guy.

He's just that annoying,
passive aggressive...

He's a prick.

And I thought if nothing else,

if I can capture Gary Cole
doing that character,

then I'll make this movie.

It'll at least be that,
you know.

Yeah, I worked a bunch
of different office jobs

and I got to see
little pieces of all of them.

And I had stuff that
was like mindless drudgery

and I had stuff where
you see the politics.

That's really
the other piece of the puzzle

as to why I got the part.

Ron was great.

The most challenging thing
about that

was getting the studio to agree
to make the movie with him

because, you know,
he wasn't a big star.

I just thought
he was a great actor.

I think by the time I had
actually went in and auditioned,

they'd seen every single
other actor in Hollywood,

many of whom I think would
have been great in the movie,

but they couldn't meet

either the studio's criteria
or Mike's criteria.

They were like, all right, fine.

You want the guy,
take the guy. Go.

So I was sort of imagining

this like a young
Charles Grodin vibe,

and Ron was one of the only
people that played it that way.

And the other thing
that happened, too,

that I'm really grateful for

was that when Jennifer Aniston
agreed to do it,

it took a lot
of the onus off of me

being a name that people
would know, which I wasn't.

I want to take you out to dinner

and then I want to go back to my
apartment and watch "Kung Fu."

Do you ever watch "Kung Fu?"

I love "Kung Fu."

Channel 39.
Totally.

When I was working
an engineering job,

one day we just said let's go
try this TGI Fridays place,

and, God, the waiter,
he was in the referee's shirt.

His voice just kept
getting higher when he'd talk.

Like, what can I get you today?

It would be like...

So can I get you gentlemen
something more to drink?

Or maybe something to nibble on,

some pizza shooters, shrimp
poppers, or extreme fajitas?

Just coffee.

Okay. Sounds like
a case of the Mondays.

It's just a nightmare
come true.

Like a year later,

I hadn't thought about the movie
since because it bombed.

And these two dudes are in like
a pickup truck and they go...

they're looking at each other
and they look over at me.

I'm like, hi, you know.

And they go, hey, what would
you do with a million dollars?

I looked at them
and I went...

Two chicks
at the same time, man.

Two chicks
at the same time, dude.

And they go, right on!

My favorite scene in the movie

is still the assault
of the printer

in an open field to rap music.

One of the oddest complements
we got on that scene

was a very, very
scary looking individual

approached Dave Herman
and just raved about that scene,

and at the end said, because
that's exactly how it goes down.

You know,
I was in Blockbuster

and I see this girl and her
friend pick up "Office Space."

She goes, oh, my God,
have you seen this?

Then I kind of
followed them around

to see if they were
really going to rent it.

And they did.

The 10th year reunion
in Austin, we did a screening,

and then it was like
"The Rocky Horror Picture Show."

Everybody knew every line

and the peals of laughter
pouring down.

I was like, oh, okay.

Now we're talking.

It was great.
That was my journey.

There's something
in that movie

that doesn't have anything
to do with an office,

doesn't have anything to do
with the workplace.

It really just has to do
with the idea

of like what it is
to be a human being

and seek enlightenment,
you know.

And in a weird way,
we were making...

Peter was a guy who
we were making fun of him

as he was finding his version
of enlightenment,

which was
a really goofy version.

Here we are
at the Mayflower Dog Show.

They come to the Mayflower
with their crates,

their kibble, and their cookies.

And most important,
with a will to win

that only a fellow dog
can truly appreciate.

The Christopher Guest
mockumentary "Best In Show,"

which is a comic masterpiece,

represent the triumph
of the improvisatory style.

What's with the little
plumber butt thing

happening on the hips there?

These pom-poms
are keeping Butch's hips warm

from the cold water,
the hip joints.

It's very important.

Chris Guest finds the insanity

behind what looks like
ordinary things.

Get up. Get up, Jerry.
No, no.

I kept saying,
no, I can't dance.

I've got two left feet.

I thought he was kidding.

But when they tell me
they love that movie,

I always ask,
are you a dog person?

And the answer is usually yes.

She's fine. You know what?
She's feeling chuffed.

She's feeling full
of herself, aren't you?

And I think that comes from

knowing how you are about
your dog, which is smart,

and how others are
about their dogs,

which is really dumb, you know.

So it's that one more
little kick of superiority

that we like.

What do you see
in front of me?

You see a big blue ribbon.

It's right here in front of you.

You want it,
you come and you grab it.

She's not listening to you.
She's freaking out.

Well, get the Busy Bee.

What's more wonderful than
loving dogs and raising them

and putting them into
the Westminster Kennel Club,

and it's all elegance
in its way.

And, of course, he goes back
underneath it and reveals

that everybody who is involved
in this thing is nuts.

I think anything
is ripe for satire

if it takes itself
very seriously.

You know, people say, oh,
but he so much older then you.

And you know what?

We both have so much in common.

We both love soup.

Well, there was
an outline of a script,

so you know the whole story.

He tells you what your
character's going to be.

And I called the office,

I say, there's no lines
in here for me.

They said, oh, it's just you
and Jim are going to ad lib.

Stewardess, can I take
a shih tzu on my carry-on

or does it have to be stowed?

Yes, that's an old joke,

but a good one
nevertheless, yes.

It's a crowdpleaser.

So we filmed it in about
four hours, our version of it.

I went to one of those
of obedience places once.

It was all going well

till they spilled hot
candle wax on my private parts.

And you don't know
if the thing is going well

until, you know,
Chris yells, all right, cut.

And then you hear laughter.

Fred doesn't use
his turn signal.

So he's liable
to go off this way,

and you better follow him.

Joe Garagiola
was the actual color guy,

so Christopher had sent me
a video.

It was a good ballclub.

We lost 112 games that year.

And suddenly I was in
this temple of Joe Garagiola.

Oh, my God,
he jumped on that woman

like she was made out of ham.

Oh, right around here.
Let's try again.

This does not look good.

No, he went after her
like she's made out of ham.

So at one point I repeated
a joke twice on a second take.

He said, you said the same thing
last year just inadvertently,

and it worked wonderfully
because it meant

this was not the first year
I'd worked with him.

And you'd imagine, he says,

oh, I've got to be stuck
with this guy again.

And so it worked out great.

I don't think
I could ever get used

to being probed and prodded.

I told my proctologist once,

hey, why don't you
take me out to dinner

and a movie sometimes,
you know.

Yes, yes, I remember
you said that last year.

Oh, Jane Lynch, I think
one of my favorite subtle lines.

She said her parents had
a wonderful happy relationship

for 20 years until
my mother committed suicide.

You know, she was there
for the unconditional love.

And it worked for my family,
you know,

until my mom
committed suicide in '81.

Chris's character
in "Best In Show,"

that's a lonely sack of shit,
that guy.

Hey, Judge, look at me.

I mean, he's not a dog
that's going to talk,

but his mind
is like telepathy.

God bless Christopher Guest,
because he hired you.

He could've got anyone,
and let you do your own thing.

And you create
your own character,

so if it doesn't go over,
you don't say,

well, I wasn't really
quite right for this role.

You have no one to blame.

Show it to somebody
who's got a dog

and they'll see that movie
over and over again.

Aah!

To this day,
it's like mind blowing

that it had
this kind of impact on people

and became a cult movie.

Yeah, it's a bowling comedy

about a bowler who could have
been the best bowler of all time

and was struck down tragically
early in his career

and had to come back
and redeem himself later on.

It's basically "The Natural."

Conceptually, the whole notion

of this dimwitted
ex-professional bowler

who's down on his luck
and on the skids,

and he encounters
this kind of Amish naif,

who it turns out has these gifts
that he wants to bring

as his ticket back

in to the wild
and prosperous world

of professional bowling.

Like, really?

It's both over the top and under
the radar at the same time.

I think "Kingpin" was totally
overlooked in the theaters.

I don't think it did very well,

and I think people just realize
it's a very funny film.

For whatever reason,
people just didn't go.

Roy Munson, a man child.

If he strikes, he's the 1979
Odor-Eater's champion.

He's got one foot
in the frying pan

and one in the pressure cooker.

I can't say specifically why
the movie became a cult movie.

If the movie had opened big
like we had hoped it would,

then we wouldn't be sitting here

talking about it
as a cult movie.

But the fact that it flopped
so badly when it came out,

and then found
an audience later.

It was number one on video
four weeks in a row.

Yes, yes.
No. No!

Hey.
No way.

So it kind of happened fast,
the cult status.

It was like six months later,

all of a sudden,
everybody's watching "Kingpin."

I don't know what happened.

"Kingpin" had such heart,

and at the core I think
was this human struggle

that I think everybody
can relate to.

But he's also going through
this internal struggle,

where he really I think
wants to be a better person

and wants to make
better choices.

And you see that journey
from beginning to the end.

We are going to do
what we set out to do.

We're going to win
that tournament.

Yes! I knew it.

I knew you were a champion

the minute
I saw you bowl, Ish.

I'm not going to bowl.
You are.

The people
who really get "Kingpin"

get that part of it
as well as the funny.

And the combination of that
is just kind of rare.

Woody Harrelson was
my roommate when I moved to L.A.

I had known Woody for years
before we did the movie.

We got Woody, we got Randy,

and we had not cast
the Big Ern McCracken role.

We were talking to those guys

and said we'd like to get
Bill Murray,

but we don't know
how to reach him.

And Randy said,
I have his number.

It's an 800 number.

He had already made a movie
with him, so he said, call him.

See what'll happen.

We called him,
we sent him the script.

Like two days later,
he said, yeah, we'll do it.

Tanqueray and tap.

Keep 'em coming, sweets.
I got a long drive.

Do me a favor, will you?

Would you mind
washing off that perfume

before you come back
to our table?

We're like, you're kidding.

He said, no,
he's going to do it.

We said, well, what do we do?

He says, he's going to be here
on the 23rd.

It's like, why?

Because you start shooting
on the 24th.

Well, what about
working out a deal?

He'll work it out
when he gets here.

It was like that.

And we just
had to take our chances.

But it's worth it,
because, you know,

Bill Murray
might come in the door.

And he did.
He walked in the door

at exactly 11:00 in the morning

when he was supposed to be there
on the 23rd.

He had plans.

He had brought
his own bowling clothes.

He had the idea
for the hair, you know.

He had thought
the thing through,

and basically the producers
got together with him

and cut a deal in about
a half hour and he did it.

I had been following
Vanessa Angel for a while,

believe it or not from
the TV show "Weird Science."

She was on that,
and I just thought she popped.

I didn't want to, you know,
go with somebody

who just naturally looks
like they're a ball breaker.

I wanted somebody
who looks sweet

and could be a ball breaker,
and so we got her.

And she came in
and she was sensational.

Couldn't have been better.

Look, your act is about
as fresh as a Foghat concert.

It really bites, Roy.

Bill Murray showed up

and we gave him the sides,
you know,

which is the stuff
you're going to shoot that day,

like five pages of what
we're shooting that day.

And he looked at it and he goes,
yeah, yeah, okay, I got it.

He threw it on the floor
and I thought, oh, cripes.

This isn't good.

And he went on
to nail everything

so much funnier
than what we had written.

Oh!
Watch the door.

Everything he did was ad libbed,

and it's the only time
we've ever had that.

Jim Carrey sticks
to the script, you know.

Everybody sticks to the script
and then goes off.

Bill never stuck,
and it was always better.

Hi.
Hello.

Not you.

Hi.
Hi.

We learned very quickly not to
yell cut at the end of a scene

because, you know,
normally, you know,

you let it roll a little
and then you yell cut.

But Bill, you really
got to open it up.

You got to yell cut when Bill
gets up and leaves the set.

I think my favorite scene probably

when we're sitting in the car

and I kind of just, you know,

tap down the comb-over,

and I say, you know,
you look really sharp.

How do I look?
I don't know.

There's just something
about that moment

that is just very real

and you can sort of see
both their vulnerability

and it's very poignant.

Real sharp.

I do love the fight scene.

You've been rubbing your tits
in that kid's face

from the moment we hooked up

so that you could steal him
from me.

What?

Don't give me
that "what" crap.

So I remember Peter
came up to me, and he said,

we're going to build this
like mechanical breast thing

that's going to move
this way and that way

and he's going to like pummel it

and it's going to be
really funny.

And I was like, really?

I just took a leap of faith

that it would look funny

and it would work and it did.

That was literally
a mechanical thing,

where it had a wire

and the guy kind of made it move

from side to side
and up and down.

Yeah, it was literally
like a little machine.

Hello.

Oh, my God.

Claudia?

You two know each other?

It's a small world when you've
got unbelievable tits, Roy.

When we got to the final,
you know, match

and Bill gets up,

and he has to roll
three strikes in a row.

I need you now.
More than ever I need you.

Bill takes the ball, boom.
Strike.

Place goes crazy.

Takes his time,
comes up again, shoowp.

Strike. Place goes crazy.

I'm thinking
this can't be happening.

Gets up again, third one.

The place exploded.
It was like a real tournament.

People went crazy.
They went nuts.

The crew was going, oh, my God.

And Bill
was so proud of himself.

He was truly like,
oh, oh, oh, you know.

It just couldn't
have worked out better.

I'm Big Ern!
I'm the greatest!

Roy's bigger victory
is he gets self-esteem, pride,

you know, integrity,
and his character back.

Woody was a horrific bowler.
He was horrible.

We had him work
with a couple of pros on form

and, you know, how
to look like a bowler at least,

because he was just awful.

So we could film him
and say, okay, you know,

this guy, he could possibly
be a bowler.

He never got better.
And we used to always...

whenever we're doing setups
for the next shot, we'd bowl.

We're in a bowling alley.

We were in bowling alleys
the whole time.

So as they're setting up
down here,

we're down at the end,
we're having bowling matches.

I actually threw a 233 one day,

and I had another game 213,
I had a 207.

We're bowling all day long
for two months, you know.

You get better.

I swear to you,
Woody never broke 80.

But Bill Murray was excellent.
Randy was a superstar.

Randy has a great curve,
left-handed, big hook.

He was great.

You know,
we'd only had one movie,

and that was "Dumb and Dumber,"
which did great.

And then "Kingpin" came out,

and we thought
that it would do great.

We love that movie.

I thought if you did a movie
that's good,

it's going to do great, and
that's just not the way it is.

Sometimes movies
fall through the cracks.

That's why
you're doing this thing.

This is all cult movies
that were great movies

that didn't do great.

Well, you're always afraid
when a movie doesn't do well

that that's the end of
your career, without question,

and that was a moment, yes,
that was one of those moments.

Six months later, it came out
on DVD or, you know, video

and started finding an audience,

and then we were allowed
to do another movie.

I had an interesting thing happen.

About six months later
when it came out on DVD,

I got a call from Geffen.

I don't know Geffen, okay.

He calls me at home,

and he says, hey, listen,
I saw your movie "Kingpin."

And my buddy
brought it over to the house

and he said he wants to play
this bowling movie.

I told him, no way.

I'm not watching
a bowling movie.

No, you've got to watch this.

He goes, I'm not watching
a bowling movie.

You're watching the movie.

So we played it last night.

He goes, hysterical.
Unbelievably good.

Yet I never, ever
would have bought that movie

if you had pitched it to me.

So whatever you want to do next,
I'll do it no matter what it is.

I said, awesome.
Thank you, man.

I really appreciate it.
Hung up.

About six months later,

we figured out we wanted to do
"Something About Mary" next,

so I called him up,
I pitched it to him, he passed.

That's how hard
the movie business is.

We were five
very close friends,

and we really wrote
that movie together.

You want to take this one, Rob?

Hell, yeah.
I bet you do.

Oh!

Wahoo!

It takes place
on the Vermont/Canada border,

and it follows
five Highway Patrolman

who patrol that area.

But there's so little crime
and so little traffic up there

that they kind of make up games
to amuse themselves.

How about Cat Game?

Cat Game?
What's the record?

Thorny did six,
but I think you can do 10.

10? Starting right meow?

Hurry up meow.

Sorry.

Is there something funny
here, boy?

No, no, no.

Well, then why are you
laughing, Mr. Larry Johnson?

All right,
meow where were we?

I'm sorry.
Are you saying meow?

Am I saying meow?

Last night
I was at some fancy event.

They were in a tuxedo.
I was in a tuxedo.

And they said, you know, essentially...

it goes some normal conversation
followed by meow.

And you're just sitting there
going, all right, okay.

Don't think, boy.

Meow, do you know
how fast you're going?

Meow what is so damn funny?

I could've sworn
you said meow.

Do I look like a cat
to you, boy?

When someone would do
the meow thing to me

where I would be like...
like I would just think,

oh, this person
smokes a lot of pot.

Because there was like this
generation of college students

that didn't see it in theaters,
but would consume the movie

and watch it
over and over again.

Am I drinking milk
from a saucer?

No.

Well, do you see me
eating mice?

Now you stop laughing
right meow.

But it was fascinating

to see the impact

and just how the impact
didn't diminish.

But...
No butts meow.

That's the law.

Not so funny meow, is it?

Meow.

You know, there's indies
where like,

hey, there's someplace
for you to sit down.

And then there's indies

where they're like we didn't
think you might need a chair.

You know what I mean?

So it was one of those
indies where they're like,

can you just stand over here

while we figure out
what we're going to do?

We come up with the idea,
and then we sit in a room

for about, you know,
a month I'd say.

And, you know, we smoked joints.

Eventually you get towards
what will be a story.

We shot the film near
Poughkeepsie, New York.

And we lucked out

because there was
a seven mile stretch of highway

that connected two other roads.

The Highway Patrol showed up

and the local police
showed up at the same time

to shut down the exit.

And I was standing there,

and they're arguing over
whose jurisdiction this was.

And the highway's like,
this is the highway,

so we control the exit
onto the highway.

The local guy's like, no, no,
this is part of the town.

That's the highway.

It does? Oh, my God.

You want to go up there, fine,
but we're shutting down this.

And so these guys are arguing
and I'm like, that's our movie.

Back it up, Brady.
I'm serious.

What's the point?

Didn't you guys
get shut down already?

Oh, yeah, that's next week.

You've got to be careful
what you write.

One, two, three.

Because you're going
to have to do it.

Do it.

In the original
syrup chugging scene,

we bought iced tea
and we made it very, very thick.

But when you look at it on film,

it just looks like
thick iced tea.

It doesn't have the viscosity
that we needed.

We sent a production assistant
to Kmart or something

and they came back with like
12 bottles of maple syrup.

I am all that is man.

You know,
I drank 2 1/2 full bottles,

and because I'm the director,

I'd made Eric do more takes
and I made him drink 3 1/2.

You know,
if you ended up the day

and you had diabetes
at the end of the day,

you're like, I get it.

After the scene, you know,
I tried to go throw it up,

but Eric was coming out
of the bathroom already.

He goes, it's not coming out.
It's too thick.

We went to my trailer
and we turned out the light

and we just laid on the ground
and shivered for all lunch.

Just laid there shivering.

Because there's a reason

maple syrup is part
of the master cleanse.

And, you know,
I'll spare you the details,

but, I mean, I shat
like a fossilized bird.

Like, you know, like a stick
with a fully intact leaf.

You know, things

that I definitely
don't remember eating,

but they came out whole.

I'll never do that again.

These boys
get that syrup in them,

they get a little antsy
in their pantsy.

You just can't keep them
under control.

We had a laser disk
of "Blade Runner."

There's that great scene

where Harrison Ford
is like using that computer

to kind of dig deeper
and enhance,

so we thought that
would be a funny little gag.

Enhance.

Enhance.

Enhance.

Just print the damn thing!

I think what made "Super
Troopers" a cult film favorite

is that we put energy
into every second of it.

Dan Blocker,
do you need assistance?

We just made a movie
where we were cops.

We didn't expect it
to go anywhere,

let alone go to Sundance
and sell it.

We didn't think anything
like that would happen.

All right, come on.

Oh, what is it now?

Oh.

Strange tattooed creature.

It broke every convention

while on the surface
being very, very conventional.

It's so out there.

No one could have predicted

"Monty Python
& The Holy Grail"

because the Monty Python
we knew from television

worked in little bursts,

kind of one joke
surreal sketches.

Nobody expects
the Spanish Inquisition.

No one thought
they could string together

an entire feature.

The first thing people...

if you want to understand
"The Holy Grail"

is that we had no idea
what we were doing.

I mean, the plot
is almost nonexistent.

The plot of "Monty Python
& The Holy Grail"

is based on the Arthurian legend
of finding the Holy Grail.

Arthur, King of the Britons.

Oh, don't grovel.

The one thing I can't stand
is people groveling.

Sorry.
And don't apologize!

I think "Monty Python
& The Holy Grail"

changed movies because
it was sort of the first movie

that was unabashedly silly

while taking itself
incredibly seriously,

which is what
their show did so well.

They do a whole movie where it's
mostly just the five of them,

six of them,
playing all the characters.

No more, no less.

And we just
kind of go with it.

We're not like,
but he was playing...

like you just
kind of go with it.

They're all playing completely
different people every scene.

I'm Arthur,
King of the Britons.

Behold your humble servant,
Sir Lancelot of Camelot.

Sir Galahad.

"Monty Python & The Holy
Grail" is a cult classic

because we know it's funny,

it's satirical,
but the movie's smart.

Look, my liege.

Camelot.

Camelot.
Camelot.

It's only a model.
Shh.

Yeah, the coconut scene
was absolutely crucial.

If Michael Palin
had not written that,

there wouldn't have been
the film

because the first draft,

we threw away the 90% of it.

It was scenes about King Arthur
walking around Harrods

and going to the pet department
to buy an ant as a pet.

I mean, we just threw out
90% of it.

But what we realized
was solid gold

was this scene that Michael
had written with the coconuts.

And that obviously because
we couldn't afford horses.

We couldn't afford one horse.

So once we realized that
that was the gold there,

the gold dust, then we sort of
built around that time period.

But at the beginning, we didn't
have that as a starting idea.

And they're showing you

the absurdity of politics
and religion, the hypocrisy.

Strange women lying in ponds
distributing swords

is no basis
for a system of government.

Visually resourceful gags,

linguistically resourceful gags.

"The Castle of, argh..."

What is that?

He must have died
while carving it.

Oh, come on.

Well, that's what it says.

Look, if he was dying,

he would bother
to carve "argh."

Eric Idle's, which I later
found out was an ad libbed line,

when he's being
the "bring out your dead" guy.

Bring out your dead.

Bring out your dead.

King Arthur walks by
and he goes...

Who's that then?
I don't know.

Must be a king.
Why?

He hasn't got shit
all over him.

They somehow or other
made space in this movie

for every single bit of surreal
silliness they possibly could.

Jesus Christ!

- Crimey!
- Ow!

And I think it kind of showed

it could follow
a very, very well trod formula

of like the King Arthur story

or the epic
kind of medieval evil movie,

and yet have these insane
cartoon cutaways into it.

By the time we started it,

we thought we had
some really funny material.

And also, the two Terrys
had directed it together.

They've got tremendous energy
and dedication,

whereas Eric and I
are lazy bastards

and get away with
as little as we can, you know.

So the Terrys
deserve a lot of praise

for actually getting it done.

Not a lot of people know this,

but the movie was actually
funded by three rock bands.

Somebody discovered
that the British government

had just brought in
some legislation

to encourage British filmmaking,

which was basically
a kind of tax dodge.

Led Zeppelin,

who was the biggest band
in the world at the time,

Pink Floyd, who was cruising
from "Dark Side Of The Moon,"

and then Genesis,

and they were all
just super fans

of "Monty Python's
Flying Circus."

And so they were like, yeah,
you guys want to make a movie?

We'll put up this money.

We would love to see
a movie like that.

I fart
in your general direction.

The taunter
came out of the fact

we discovered that there
actually were taunters

in these medieval battles.

Your mother was a hamster

and your father
smelled of elderberries.

Terry Gilliam believes

that the more difficulties
there are,

the more people are squabbling
and the worse the conditions,

then the better the art is.

I don't know
how he came to that conclusion,

but he is quite batty.

What is your favorite color?

Blue.
Right. Off you go.

Oh, thank you.

Comedy requires relaxation

because that's when
people's timing gets better.

But we were young.
We were young.

But we found this one castle,
Doone castle.

D-double-O-N-E, I think.

And we use that
at different angles,

so it played the part
of several castles.

One of the things

that sometimes makes
a cult movie take hold

is a scene of extreme gore.

And, of course,
the Black Knight encounter,

that was the thing

that kids came out of that
movie talking about,

that everybody
was so shocked by.

They couldn't imagine
slapstick and gore

paired together like that.

Now stand aside,
worthy adversary.

'Tis but a scratch.

A scratch?

All right,
we'll call it a draw.

The reason
people love it so much

is that the first 50 minutes

is really funny, really funny.

And then I don't think
it's so good after that.

I think it goes off a bit.

I love the scene where Michael

tries to tell Graham Chapman
and Eric Idle

to keep his son in the room
and not let him out.

That's one
of my favorite scenes.

Wonderfully performed.

Make sure he doesn't leave.

The Prince?

Yes, make sure
he doesn't leave.

Oh, yes, of course.

I thought you meant him.

You know, it seemed a bit daft,

me having to guard him
when he's a guard.

Is that clear?

Oh, quite clear.
No problems.

Right.

Where you going?
We're coming with you.

The word we used more
than anything else was silly.

If anything was really silly,
we thought it was hilarious.

On second thought,
let's not go to Camelot.

It is a silly place.

Well, I think the reason
you picked "Holy Grail"

is that
you've made the same mistake

that American audiences
have been making for decades.

You think it's much, much better
than it is.

Right, sonny, that's enough.
Just... Christ!

You want to start
from the beginning?

"Beyond the Valley
of the Dolls"

is beyond anything.

It is still almost the
perfect movie if you watch it.

It never goes bad.

It gets better like a fine wine.

Every year it gets more and more
jaw-dropping, you know.

Yeah, it's got everything.

It's got music, fast editing.

It's very modern, really.

Transgender, beheading,
Manson, it has everything.

"Beyond the Valley of
the Dolls," when it came out

was quite a scandal

because, you know,
this was an X rated...

This and "Myra" came out
around the same time

and both X rated and they
were both from a big studio.

And hated by critics.

"Beyond the Valley
of the Dolls"

exists in a very unique time
and place in cinema,

and that
is the very early seventies.

Absurd, satirical tragicomedy

about a group of naiïve girls.

They're part of a rock band
called the Carrie Nations.

And come to California.

It really is
an artifact of its era.

It really captured

what was going on
in that particular moment.

I think it was destined
for cult classic, you know.

I think Roger Ebert, the writer,
even knew at the time

it was going to be
something like that.

A lot of people in hot tubs

and a lot of people, you know,
doing the frug and the shag.

Oh, they just banned
my last film in Cincinnati.

Groovy town.

When I'm with you, pussycat,
who needs grass?

You have to see it
to believe it.

Of course, I nearly choked.

It's pretty cultish
to begin with, isn't it?

And at this point, the old
studio guard is falling apart.

They no longer really knew
what the kids wanted to see.

The production code, which
had been in effect from 1934,

was woefully out of date,
and there's just really a sense

that you know, we had
to push the envelope,

and in a counter cultural
forward time,

that if you pushed it rightly,
you would get this audience.

Giving an X rating to
"Beyond the Valley of the Dolls"

was certainly the ticket.

It opened the doors for
Joe Normal to go to an X movie

and not have to hide
in a raincoat.

But in today's
horrifying world,

it wouldn't have gotten
an X rating.

He would have gotten
an R rating.

Probably that helped
to make it a cult classic

because when someone can't
get something, they want it.

And it became a cult movie
because it was discovered again.

I always wonder
what it was like

for Roger Ebert in 1970
to be this famous film critic

and then to release a movie
that is an X.

Roger Ebert, to put his name
on a film that crazy

takes so much courage.

And Russ always used

some sort of theme
running through his films

that was the social topic
of the time.

I mean, in "Vixen," it was the
Communist hijacking the plane.

And then "Beyond the Valley
of the Dolls,"

of course, it was the Manson.

That sort of ran through,
you know, especially at the end.

I mean,
it's hard not to see that.

What makes the movie
fascinating to me

is that it's making fun
of its time,

which is the late sixties,
early seventies,

but it's actually being filmed
during its time,

which makes it
kind of one step ahead

or smarter than the films
that it's spoofing.

And adds a very cautious layer
of social satire.

No, in L.A.

- Where is that?
- We'd get crushed.

- Not us.
- Smog.

- Climb a tall tree.
- Lousy traffic.

- Love to walk.
- No culture.

- Grooves a lot.
- Cold and cruel.

- Swimming pool.
- Phony city.

- So pretty.
- Religious nuts.

Not only a satire
of Hollywood, it's a musical.

But it looks
so much like, oh, cool.

This is going to be
like a sixties

kind of like
rock 'n' roll movie,

and it goes nuts
almost immediately.

You're a groovy boy.

I'd like to strap you on sometime.

They just loved it

or thought it was
a piece of trash.

If I could pick one actor
from all of cult film history

and anoint him
into leading man status,

I would absolutely
do John Lazar.

- Ronnie Barzell?
- You mean Z-Man Barzell?

I read that script
and I just loved that character.

I mean, how about
starting at the top?

This is my happening
and it freaks me out.

Oh, it's a stone gas, man.

- Pray, we must make haste.
- My time is not my own.

Before the clock strikes 12,
I must be back at Forest Lawn.

When Z-Man gets
a little testy, you know,

"you will drink the black sperm
of my vengeance."

You will drink the black sperm
of my vengeance.

When you look
at what John Lazar

is pulling off in that movie,

he is running around in tights
and quoting Shakespeare

and murdering people
and being dangerous and sexy

and scary and powerful
and charismatic.

I mean, that is a guy who I
think could have done anything.

Or he at least could have
had the best career

playing brilliant villains.

And indeed,
it is not a game we play.

I am Superwoman.

I mean, I'm running around
with tits and this sword

and there's drugs,
rock 'n' roll, sex.

Oh, my God, no.

You've been a broad all along,
right, Barzell?

A goddamn broad!

A goddamn ugly broad, Barzell!

An ugly broad!

No, Ronnie! No!

The scene
that most people remember

was the scene where my head
gets blown off by Z-Man.

Yes, it was
a tough scene to shoot

first of all because the gun,

it was scraping
the roof of my mouth.

The makeup man that won the
awards for "Planet of the Apes"

is the one that made the mask

that they had tubes
running through.

And they pushed down
on the tubes

and then blood would squirt out
my nose my mouth and my eyes.

Aah!

The outfit that Z-Man
ends up giving me

when we take acid
or whatever it is

was the original Julie Newmar
Catwoman costume.

Casey, Cynthia,
was given the Robin outfit.

- What?
- A Ancient potion

by Merlin the magician,
Boy Wonder.

Just add one part peyote
and some other benign goodies.

It's only a small dose, Casey.

You know how Z-Man is.

That costume was carrying
a lot of vibrations.

Russ was a very harsh director.

As I said, he was like
a big teddy bear.

That he was very caring.

That he had a sense of humor.

You never said no
to Russ ever.

I mean, the more hot
the conditions,

the more terrible everything is,

that's what Russ thrived on.

That pushed him forward.

I think that came
from his army days.

This was his big chance

because it was with
20th Century Fox.

"Beyond the Valley of the
Dolls" from 20th Century Fox.

I'm very sensitive,
and he would say,

I could replace you, you know.

One of his pet peeves
is when actors blink.

He says,
you blink, I cut away.

There was one scene at dinner,

and I'm eating like this
and my eyes are like saucers.

And he's got these reflectors
on you,

and you're like, hey, you know,
like squinting your eyes.

And he's like, nope, cut.

You blinked again.

And then Russ wanted me
to have an orgasm on screen,

and I'm like, Russ, it's hard
to have an orgasm offscreen.

Just when I was supposed to be
at that crucial moment,

then there's a scene

of somebody dripping
pancake batter on a hot...

I am honored to be a part

of one of the greatest
cult movies of all time.

And I would have never thought

that that would be
sort of my legacy.

And here it is.

It's pretty good, right?

It's "all about Eve" set
in Vegas, I always kind of...

But not as good.

That's terrible.
That's a terrible thing to say.

I took a history of world
cinema class in college,

and the professor for that
course showed us "Showgirls"

and had written an essay
about how the world will owe

everyone involved with it
an apology

for trashing it
when it first came out.

Paul Verhoeven's "Showgirls."

Written by Joe Eszterhas.
What is the plot?

A young woman coming to the city
trying to make good.

It's sort of sinful
the way chocolate is sinful.

You can sit a little bit
closer if you want.

The whole idea of "Showgirls"
was an alluring thing.

There hadn't been anything
done like that prior.

This brain-dead girl
who goes to Vegas

and every cliché happens,
including, you know,

getting laid
in the swimming pool.

The satirical aspect
to "Showgirls," you know,

it had some
very biting moments to it.

My name's Penny.

- They want class, dumb
- dumb.

They don't want to fuck a Penny.

They want to fuck a Heather
or a Tiffany.

Honestly, when I first read
the script,

it didn't seem as intense

as how the movie
turned out in the end.

It's provocative.

This rag to riches girl,

you know, wanting to succeed.

I just hope that I can be
as good as the show.

And then also
taking them into a world

that they hadn't experienced
from behind the scenes.

That's always
interesting to see.

There's a message
in the ravioli.

It fills you up.

There's still
a lingering message,

a cautionary tale.

I don't know
how good you are, darling,

and I don't know
what it is you're good at.

But if it's at The Cheetah,

it's not dancing,
I know that much.

You don't know shit.

When I first met
Joe Eszterhas,

I think he thought I was crazy

because I was so into the part
that I'd broken it down.

I'm like, I know what you did.

I was really into
that Aphrodite myth.

I'm like, I'm Aphrodite,

she's Psyche, he's Cupid.

And I'm going into
the whole mythology,

and he's looking at me,
he's like,

I have no idea
what you're talking about.

"Showgirls" became a cult picture

because it was failed seriousness,

but on a grand scale.

I mean, it was Paul Verhoeven
with big production values.

He made "Basic Instinct,"
and this was like big time.

What makes anything
a cult classic?

It's the fans.

You know, secretly
in the back of my head

I thought, okay,
the drag queens.

If I succeed in this part,

they'll want to dress like me
for Halloween,

which they did,
so I felt like I did my job.

I actually think
that "Showgirls"

is sort of half camp
and half a good movie.

I really like
Elizabeth Berkley in it.

I think she has
a genuine fury in that role,

and that's what makes
the movie work.

Oh!

It kind of took on

a "Rocky Horror Picture" vibe

because all of a sudden

they were showing midnight
viewings of "Showgirls"

where people would dress up
and say the lines.

"Showgirls" being probably

the greatest example
of a misfire by a studio

and then finding a devoted crowd
in these repertory cinemas

that saw the film
in a totally different way

than it was originally made.

You know, they kept calling
me back and calling me back,

and I knew I was
kind of nailing the audition.

And, you know,
I'm in my character

and dressed up and all that,

and as soon as I did the kick,

I literally heard this
like crrrrk!

And I thought, you know, oh, no.

If you show that you hurt
yourself, you lost the gig.

And I don't know why
I just like pulled

a total
like Cristal diva moment.

"I just don't feel it.
I'll come back and dance."

And they're like, what?
And I'm like, yeah.

I'm not feeling it.
And I just left.

It worked.
I got the gig, you know.

I want you to meet Hope.

Like we were playing it
so serious

instead of playing the comedy
that's actually in the script.

They take it out,
cum all over you,

call the bouncer
unless he gives you a big tip.

If he gives you a big tip,
it's okay.

Okay.

When I got the movie,
I was really excited

because I was a huge fan
of Paul's European films.

You know, I'm thinking,

oh, I'm going to go be
in this Wagner concert,

you know, this Wagner-like
opera, you know.

So I made Cristal
pretty intense.

When I got to the set,

it was more kind of like
a Britney Spears concert.

Ladies and gentlemen,
the Stardust proudly presents

Miss Cristal Connors.

It was like Technicolor,
you know.

And so I basically
just did a 180,

and I changed my character.

You see, darling,
you are a whore.

Bitch!

I just thought
it was like kind of kitsch

and over the top
and kind of funny and weird.

And then when it was very
seriously, you know...

You can't take that movie
too seriously.

I'm kind of dancing naked
a little bit

and, you know, I'm hanging on
by a rope in an S&M outfit

looking down
at all these dancers

thinking, wow,
like how did I get here?

Like I studied the classics.

Like I was
supposed to do Chekhov.

I'm doing Tennessee Williams,
you know.

I want to do Greek tragedies.

It's like, shit.

Do you like my nails?

People choose their friends

according to if you're in
the "Showgirls" culture

and you understand the dialogue

and you can rattle off
the scenes.

So I want my nipples to press,

but I don't want them
to look like their levitating.

It has a whole new life now.

Dennis Miller,
on one of his HBO specials

had said there are two great
lines in all of film history.

There is "frankly, my dear,
I don't give a damn."

"I could've been a contender."

Marlon Brando
in "On the Waterfront."

And "it must be weird
not having somebody cum on you."

Thank you, Bobby Davi.

It must be weird
not having anybody cum on you.

I wonder if in 1995

if anyone was going
to review "Showgirls" fairly.

It's an NC-17 movie,
so people feel dirty going in.

It's a film that's very extreme.

It's a film
that's very bright.

It's a film that's very forward.

And I think it really
didn't get a fair shake

because I think critically,

people were extremely afraid

to really deal with what it was.

I have to say, like to this
day I cannot do an interview

without some of those
same critics

saying, so what about "Showgirls?"

And it's like, wait a second.

Weren't you the guy
who panned it?

Like if you hated it so much,
why are we still discussing it?

I think the critics

want to have it both ways
on "Showgirls."

I think they really... a lot
of people do like it now,

but they don't want to admit it,

so it has to be
a guilty pleasure.

It has to be so bad it's good.

There are a few of those
Joe Eszterhas lines

that are definitely
over the top.

If you want to last
longer than a week,

you give me a blow job.

First I get you
used to the money,

then I make you swallow.

At the box office,
it wasn't number one

and it didn't make
all the money back.

But it made how much?
100 million?

$100 million
for the DVD sales and VHS.

It made a lot of money.

To me, the real tragedy

is that America could not
really embrace "Showgirls"

in September of 1995
as the masterpiece that it is.

I was just hoping that
it would launch my career,

and I didn't know
it was going to stick around

and get stronger and stronger
after 20-something years.

But then it turns out that...

that is my career.

Even no matter how much I work,
it's always "Showgirls."

The "so bad, it's good" thing

really sort of came to a head
with Ed Wood,

who was a filmmaker

who no one saw his movies
except us kids,

who would watch "Plan 9
From Outer Space" on television.

But you have to admire the fact

that he was able to personalize
something for himself

and turn it into
these threadbare movies

that he actually got made
and got released.

A lot of them.

- And a lot of them.
- Yeah.

And he thought
no one knew who he was,

which they kind of didn't
while he was alive.

But then as soon as he passed
away, just like Orson Welles,

as soon as he passed away,
oh, we loved him.

We always loved him.

But the sensibility of the movie

is that what's funny about it
is its attempts to be serious.

But is it outsider art?
It almost is.

It is outsider art.

It is outsider art in a way.

It's like something
that he didn't do that

to be in any way arty
or humorous or anything.

He was dead serious about it,

but unhinged enough
to not understand

that the rest of the world

didn't quite think
the way he did.

Single-minded cluelessness.

That's right,
that's right, that's right.

Greetings, my friend.

We are all interested
in the future,

for that is where you and I

are going to spend
the rest of our lives.

And remember, my friends,
future events such as these

will affect you in the future.

Ed Wood should be
remembered as sort of

one of the groundbreaking
indie filmmakers in America.

The insanity
of the whole thing.

I mean, he's trying to make
an epic sci-fi movie.

Paper plates are spinning around
pretending to be flying saucers.

I mean, it's just hilarious
that he would do that.

I think "Plan 9 From
Outer Space" is infectious.

"Plan 9 From Outer Space"

is Edward Wood's
sci-fi invasion picture.

But last night
I saw a flying object

that couldn't have possibly
been from this planet.

A bunch of aliens
show up on earth

and they use their powers
to re-animate the dead,

who then start
stalking the earth

and turning into kind of
quasi-vampire sort of things?

I don't know.
It's a little confusing.

They refuse our existence.

What plan will you follow now?

Plan 9.

Ah, yes, plan 9

deals with the resurrection
of the dead.

You have the fact

that it went into
the public domain rather early,

and therefore it's a free movie.

So one of the reasons
people know it

is because people programmed it
on television a lot,

and that added to its cult.

And what draws people
to that movie,

I think there is
the sort of Halloween,

do-it-yourself homemade-ness.

Either the dialogue is so
ridiculous it throws you out.

Suppose that saucer
or whatever it was

had something to do with this?

Your guess
is as good as mine, Larry.

One thing sure.

Inspector Clay's dead
and somebody's responsible.

Or the dialogue
is so ridiculous

and the actors are so inept.

You see? You see?

Your stupid minds!
Stupid! Stupid!

That's all I'm taking
from you.

Get back here, you jerk!

What do you make of that?

You got me.

Didn't look that way
a minute ago.

You know, so many people
want to be filmmakers,

but they wait for someone
to give them permission.

And that's part of the dilemma
of being a filmmaker

is you need someone
to give you money.

Ed didn't wait.

Ed went out
and if he had 500 bucks,

he'd go shoot a day with Bela
Lugosi coming out of his house.

There's no narrative there.

It's just Bela Lugosi
coming out of his house.

Five years later,
he'll turn that into a film.

The ever beautiful flowers

she had planted
with her own hands

became nothing more than
the lost roses of her cheeks.

What makes it a cult picture,
it was Bela Lugosi's last film.

Watching Bela Lugosi

and knowing that he died
before it was done.

All of us on this earth know
that there's a time to live

and that there is a time to die.

And that there was a stand-in
pretending to be Bela Lugosi.

And then when
you have the information

it was actually
Ed Wood's dentist,

who he dragged into the thing

because the guy
just was so starstruck.

That kind of captures
how Ed Wood

was probably
the worst filmmaker of all time,

but in part because he was
one of the most passionate.

He was trying
to make great movies.

"Ed Wood" was the first biopic
that Scott and I had written,

so we were insanely proud
of the movie.

Cue Dr. Tom.

Now?
Yes, now.

Lurking.

Be sure
and keep your face covered.

Isn't it wonderful?

There was no way of knowing

when cinema was invented

that you and I would be able
to connect in our brains

the idea of a shot over here,
a shot over there cut together,

that we would make sense of it.

Well, thank you, Ed Wood,

for reminding us by virtue
of his genius for ineptitude,

that this shot over here might
not match this shot over here.

He breaks the continuity.

If an audience goes
and sits down

and they're seeing
a flying saucer movie

and you can clearly see
the string of the flying saucer

dangling over the town,

that will make audiences
roll their eyes.

It will make them
check out of the movie.

And cut.

All right, friends,
prepare for scene 32.

Mr. Wood,
where's the cockpit set?

Your standing in it.

Trouble?
Take a look for yourself.

What in the world?

That's nothing
from this world.

You always hear
these wacky things

about how he put together
these horrible films,

but there was always
this heart underneath it.

We always saw that the movie
that we wrote, "Ed Wood,"

as a love story
between him and Bela,

about what happens
when you meet your hero.

Fuck you!

Karloff does not deserve
to smell my shit!

That limey cocksucker
can rot in hell for all I care.

And we thought
that was something

that really gave "Ed Wood"
a soul,

as opposed
to just being a, you know,

a commentary on a guy
who made bad films.

What we like to ask
about our characters

is why will they be remembered?

And the two reasons why Ed Wood
would be remembered

is one, is his relationship
with Bela Lugosi,

and two is he made quote/unquote
the worst movie of all time.

It gave us an ending,
which the ending was

he makes the worst film
of all time.

But according to Ed, it's the
film he'll be remembered for,

and that's exactly
what he is remembered for.

So it's that
kind of epic cheapness

and the fact that there was

a genuine Hollywood legend
involved in it

that makes it an irresistible
kind of cult movie.

Well, you know,
you can complain

about whether it is
the worst film of all time

or is that unfair,
but the bottom line,

that's what put him on the map.

And, so, you know, I think
at the end of the day,

at least people are watching it.

And I think
if people are watching it

and getting some enjoyment
out of it,

it's not the worst film
of all time.

Can you prove
that it didn't happen?

"Glen or Glenda,"
his first film,

I mean, it's his expression

of what it was to be
a cross-dresser in the 1950s

before anyone knew
what this stuff was.

People.

All with their own thoughts,
their own ideas.

One might say there
but for the grace of God go I.

In some ways in the trans era,

that movie looks more and more
bold and ahead of its time.

Glen is engaged to be married
to Barbara,

a lovely, intelligent girl.

The problem?
Glenda, Glen's other self.

He's not had the nerve
to tell her.

Should he tell Barbara he's
Glenda now before the wedding

or hit her between the eyes
with it after,

when it might be too late
for either of them?

I don't think it's fair

to call Ed Wood the worst
director of all time.

I don't even think
Ed's a bad director.

I mean, I actually think Ed's
a very weird, strange director.

All right, everybody.
Let's get set up for scene 112.

Move the crypt stage left,

and let's get Tor's
makeup effect ready.

Mr. Wood, what do you think
you're doing?

I'm directing.

Not like that, you're not.

There's no way
to look at "Glen or Glenda"

and not see a man
making a personal statement,

and almost an avant-garde
personal statement.

He is starring, directing,
writing this film,

and it's all about
his personal dilemma

about being a transvestite
in that time period.

And he's doing it with
a narrative section of the movie

and he's doing it
with these avant-garde sections.

I mean, it's incredibly strange,

and I actually think
once you know the true story,

it's kind of impossible
to laugh at it anymore.

What he was doing
was totally outrageous,

but there's just this wonderful

naiïve earnest quality
to that movie,

where he's saying
accept me for who I am.

And there's no film technique

to get in between the audience
and his plea.

So you just feel something
very passionate and very pure,

and in its way kind of hilarious
watching "Glen or Glenda."

It's the one Ed Wood movie

that I find I can
go back to over and over again.

I guess like "Rocky Horror,"
we were, you know,

"Rocky Horror's"
blonde headed stepchild.

I am thrilled

you can join me
for the fabulous first night

of the St. Louis leg
of my world tour.

A cult film has nothing to do
with how good the film is,

even how popular it is,
but it's how it became popular

and how strongly a certain group
of people care about it.

Well, "Hedwig" is about
an East German gay boy

who dreams of freedom.

He's on the communist side
of Berlin in the eighties.

My name
is Sergeant Luther Robinson.

My name is Hansel.

And he meets an American G.I.

who suggests
a gender reassignment

so he can get married and
get out of communist Germany.

You've got to leave
something behind.

Aah!

He's kind of grifted
and is left,

so has to pick herself up,
now a woman,

not even wanting to be a woman,

write some songs,
get a band together,

and try to save herself,
try to define herself,

try to find out who she is.

It's a serious story
about a transgender person,

and I think it appeals to people
who are on the outside.

Because when
it was originally done,

nobody was more on the outside.

And as times have changed
and we're getting to the point

where people are actually
fighting in the Supreme Court

to go to the bathroom
they want to go to,

it's become more relevant.

From this milkless tit,

you sucked the very business
we call show.

You know, "Hedwig"
is pretty low and climbs up.

So it's about healing,
healing trauma.

What the fuck
is wrong with you?

Why couldn't we...

Why don't you write a new song?

It's a rock 'n' roll concert
at the heart of it,

so I think it combines
all of those things.

It's a much more modern
cult movie.

I really love when Hedwig
sings "Wicked Little Town"

in a kind of Dunkin' Donuts
to, you know,

four or five people
who she may have tricked with.

And then you realize

that her lover Tommy
is hiding behind some plant.

There's no dialogue
in that scene.

I like how simple it is.

Yeah, you know,
Stephen Trask, composer, and I

wanted to capture the energy
of a real rock 'n' roll show.

So we did things in the film
that made sense to us.

So recording live was important.

As an actor,
I kind of burned out.

It was so hard that
I quit acting for 15 years.

I just used everything I knew
as an actor, as a singer,

as a performer, as a writer,
as a director.

Our last day of shooting
was 20 hours,

and we did the scene where
they kiss for the first time.

Breathe through my mouth.

And Tommy says,
"breathe through my mouth,"

which is something a lover
said to me in the eighties.

But it was very romantic,

and the walls
of the trailer part

open up like a diorama.

But things go wrong when
he discovers the front of her,

which is her trauma,
which is her complexity,

you know, the complexity
of her life and gender and past.

It was too much for him.

Because he's running ultimately
from the complexity of himself

as a person who could love
someone that unique.

And I really do love that scene.

New Line knew...

their term was
it's going to have shelflife,

so they knew to invest
in a very expensive DVD

that had a ton of features.

We made a huge 90 minute
"making of" thing.

There was a ton of stuff.

And they were right.

They make their money back
and a profit.

We never saw a cent.

And people found it.

It also came out
a few weeks before 9/11,

and many people later said

that they saw "Hedwig"
on September 12th.

All the cinemas let everyone in
for free that day,

and many, many people saw
"Hedwig" that day in New York,

and they said
it made them feel better.

And so it was connected to
something that was traumatic.

It stayed alive because of
DVD and midnight screenings

and the soundtrack.

The original movie
will continue on, I suspect,

but "Hedwig" is very much
on the money right now

because it's a huge issue.

My favorite cult films
kind of shoot for the moon,

for popular success,
and then they fail.

But then a certain group
of people rediscovers it.

They kind of culture it,
you know, like a garden,

and it has a long life.

It was always the truism,
you know,

I'd rather be 10 people's
favorite thing

than a million people's
so-so thing.

And I truly believe that.

And if that's cult,
then I'm cult, you know.

I'm happy with that.

"Female Trouble" came out.
Was not a success.

It didn't open at midnight.
It opened at a regular run.

And it didn't get great reviews.

People were disappointed

that it wasn't more hideous than
"Pink Flamingos" or something.

But today, of my Divine movies,

I think it is by far
the most popular one.

The people that yell the lines
to me when I'm, you know...

all the people when they yell
my own lines to me

when I'm walking down the street
in New York,

and a girl says,
I'm glad I got an abortion!

And I'm like, why did she
just say that to me?

Oh, I wrote that.
Hi. Thank you. Thank you.

"Female Trouble,"

which is his next film
after "Pink Flamingos,"

in many ways much slicker,
but just as sick and crazy.

I think "Female Trouble"
is a true pinnacle

because there are
all these great lines

like, who wants to die for art?

Who wants to be famous?

Who wants to die for art?

I do!

It stars Divine
as Dawn Davenport,

and she begins as a child

in which she doesn't get
her cha-cha heels for Christmas.

What are these?

Those are your new shoes, Dawn.

Those aren't the right kind.

I told you cha-cha heels,
black ones.

Dawn grows up, has a family,

becomes kind of
a sick individual,

having her face
disfigured by acid.

I got something for your face,
motherfucker!

Aah! Aah!

Divine becomes
like crazier and uglier

and she's more beautiful.

Pretty-pretty?

Yes.

And ends up
being electrocuted.

And she saw her death
and the execution

as like being a positive
experience for her.

My big moment
in the electric chair.

Oh, you still think
you're in a show, baby.

And she gives a little speech about...

almost like
an acceptance speech.

I love
every fucking one of you!

Aah!

I think "Female Trouble"

is one of the great cult films
of all time

because I think John Waters

polished his act a little bit
with the film.

It's a lot more professional,
better sets.

Not better acting.

I'm going to live with
the Hare Krishna people.

What did you say?

The Krishnas are love, mother.

Oh, God, I would have
killed you at birth

had I thought you would
even entertain such an idea.

More interesting
and diverse characters.

The audiences ate it up.

I remember that kind of
followed "Pink Flamingos."

That run ended and then
"Female Trouble" started.

Some were disappointed

that it's not as shocking
as "Pink Flamingos,"

but in many ways it's stranger.

Just as enjoyable, though.

Sexually repressed couple
murders swingers and eats them.

That'll make them go see it.

I mean, I had
to describe that movie a lot

to get people in the theater.

It was not a hit right away.

Paul Bartel
had a really hard time

getting financing
for this movie.

And I always thought

that the people
that he kills off in the movie

represented the people
who had turned him down.

- Aah!
- Bam!

Scalpel.
Scalpel.

Suture.
Suture.

Frying pan.

"Eating Raoul"
is one of my favorite movies

that I ever made.

The funny thing is
is that he is a real doctor.

I recognize him
from the hospital.

The reason why is because
it's so incredibly different.

And I had a big part in it

because they let me do
whatever I wanted.

This world is overflowing
with millions of sexual freaks.

We're so lucky
we found each other.

The appeal of somebody
like Mary Woronov,

who is a cult actress,
is discovery,

where you just say, hey,
you know, I like that person.

Where have I seen her before?

"Eating Raoul," she's the lead.

Mary's a sweetheart.

She was one of the cult queens

of the 1970s and eighties

thanks to, you know,
her work with Paul Bartel.

Did you ever do any acting?

I did some in high school.

Well, that's all it is
is acting.

Lick my sneakers,
you little worm.

See what I mean?
It's easy.

Lick my sneaker,
you little worm.

See? You're a natural.

It's a cannibal movie,

people eating people,
murdering people.

Mary Woronov dressing up
like a dominatrix,

and there's something
very polite about this movie.

Hey, mister, get off her.
Are you crazy?

I told you, man, I can't wait.

Which is contradictory
to the subject matter,

and I think
that's part of the appeal.

There's always this little air
of sophistication element

to a real B horror movie topic.

We have to come up
with $25,000 by Friday

or another couple
is going to take the place

and turn it into a clinic
for rich fat people.

He would call me up
and he would say, oh, Mary,

I think we have the money
to get it together again.

Do you think...
Yeah, sure, Paul.

What are we doing?

Oh, do you remember...
No, I don't.

Well, it doesn't matter really.

You'll just come down
and we'll tell you what to do.

Okay, fine.

Don't be afraid.

Fear is a mind trap, baby.

What we fear is the past
becoming the future.

What we really have is now.

I mean, the whole crew
had parts in that movie

because we didn't have the time
to hire an actor.

We never decorated the set.

That apartment we were in,
a nut job lived there.

I mean, he was in love

with this certain fifties thing
or something.

Mary, why don't we sell
your mother's collection

of fabulous fifties furniture?

Oh, no, Paul.

You know mama only loaned it
to us until she dies.

Then he didn't have any money
to buy film.

You cannot work
without film in the camera.

You have been earning money
from an evil undertaking,

and if you keep it up,

you will burn
for all eternity in hell.

Hey, sister,
I'm in hell right now.

Nobody went to see that movie.

I mean, nobody.

I remember Paul, you know,
was dragging me to the movie

because he didn't
want to be alone.

Raoul, that's wonderful.

And then he would run around
buying cookies

and then go down the line
giving people little cookies

so they would stay in line
and go to the movie.

I don't know. It was awful.

Paul, this isn't how
we're supposed to be acting.

This somehow got word-of-mouth
and got put as a midnight movie.

It's not like
any other midnight movie

of the era and ever.

Very nice of you to ask us,

but we're actually
into St. Bernards.

Oh, really? Wow.

Certainly "Eating Raoul"
was on its own

because it wasn't really
a horror movie.

I mean, we did eat someone.
So what, you know.

There were jokes in it.

I hope you make this
a permanent item on your menu.

It's French.

No, actually
it's more Spanish.

Mmm, so tender.

It's funny, it's well-written,
and we like these characters,

who are not the typical
lead characters in movies.

And nobody ever, ever thought

of throwing a radiator
into a hot pool

and killing like 25 people.

That's ridiculous.
We did it.

Well, swing on this.

So you might be wondering

what's become
of the cult movie today.

We've talked about
the way it used to be,

and now are going to talk about
the way it is now.

The fact is that
there are still cult movies

and there are still
midnight shows,

although not as many
as there used to be.

But in keeping
the tradition alive,

there is still a bunch of movies
that have come out

that have their followings.

And there are even some,
like "The Room,"

that are packing
the theaters at night

with people who come
and talk back to the screen

and throw things at the screen

and know the movie by heart.

There was laughter
from beginning to end

at the level of absurdity.

Did you watch the whole thing?
Did you make it to the end?

You have to.
Yeah, you have to.

Because there's no payoff.

It is extraordinarily bad,

and you know that he didn't
realize it as he was doing it,

and that's part of the joy
of enjoying it.

And it's fantastic
that he's now coming out

to all these sold-out theaters.

He's making appearances,
saying, we knew it was...

Oh, you're so full of shit.

Holy shit, this is the
best/worst movie I've ever seen.

Like it's like watching
a snuff film to me,

you know what I mean?

It's just like the movie
going terribly wrong.

It's so bad, it's wonderful.

- Hi, Doggie.
- You're my favorite customer.

- Thanks a lot. Bye.
- Bye-bye.

First, let me thank you
for correcting

my decades long
mispronunciation of his name.

I always thought it was Wise-oh,
but it's Wiz-ow?

All right. Interesting.

I met Tommy Wiseau
so in acting class.

He was writing,
producing, directing,

starring in "The Room,"

and he came to me
and I read the script

and he wanted me
to play the role of Mark.

I used to know a girl.
She had a dozen guys.

One of them found out about it,
beat her up so bad

she ended up in a hospital
on Guerrero Street.

What a story, Mark.

Yeah, you can say that again.

I don't think I've ever
laughed as hard as I laughed

from the first 20 minutes
of "The Room."

It's essentially about
this guy named Johnny,

who's a creepy guy.

Hi, babe.

I have something for you.

What is it?

It's just a little something.

And he has this girlfriend

who keeps taking her top off
for some reason.

All I have to do
is put on my party dress.

They're about to get married,

and she ends up having an affair
with his best friend,

and it's sort of like
how Tommy reacts to it.

How could you do this to me?

I gave you seven years
of my life.

And the movie's filled

with all sorts of ridiculous
dialogue, non sequiturs,

continuity mistakes,
horrible boring stock footage.

It's just an awful movie.

- Come on.
- No.

- Cheep, cheep, cheep, cheep.
- Cheep, cheep, cheep, cheep.

I didn't know
what the story was.

Where you really want
to get invested,

but then you're like,
what is actually happening?

"The Room" is a movie
you can't put down.

You know, some people think

that they're like watching
a train wreck, so that's why.

But I think
it's the passion, man.

I think it's watching
some people

who know absolutely nothing
about what they're doing

try to pull it off.

And in a sense, they succeed.

But those cats are no different
than me and my friends.

Yeah, the cult of "The Room"

started with
two young filmmakers.

One of them was going to USC

and they were... you know,
they walked by the theater

and they saw a sign
that said "No Refunds."

Like, okay,
let's check this out.

And so they went in there,
and within like 20 minutes,

they were calling people
on their phone

saying this film's incredible.
You've got to come see it.

You know, I had heard
so much about "The Room,"

and I didn't want
to watch it on DVD.

I wanted to experience it live,

because I heard
that's the way to see it.

And I'm still thinking about it
weeks later.

Not necessarily about the movie,

but about the experience
of seeing it with an audience.

Fans took ownership
of "The Room,"

and they've turned it into
this experience

that we haven't really seen
since "Rocky Horror."

Early cult films like
"Rocky Horror Picture Show,"

you had to go to the theater
to see it.

Later cult films
like "The Room,"

maybe it becomes about audiences

needing that sense
of being in a room together.

Oh, my gosh, now "The Room"

seems like the most
symbolic name ever.

These people
are shouting out lines.

They keep walking by
for some reason

these framed pictures of spoons,
so people yell, spoons! Spoons!

And they throw all these
plastic spoons at the screen.

I was sitting on the second row,

so I was watching
the whole movie like this.

I mean, you can't put
the genie back in the bottle.

It's never going to be the way
it was for us when we were kids

when there was
a "Rocky Horror Picture Show."

But "The Room"
got very, very close.

Like I remember going
to the Laemmle

and people interacting with it

and being like, huh.

These kids are trying
to play "Rocky Horror."

You know, when I found out

that "The Room"
had celebrity fans,

my mind was blown.

I think Jonah Hill would attend
screenings of "The Room"

back in like 2005, 2006.

David Cross would show up
wearing a wig,

dressed up as Tommy.

The camp/cult following

happened for years
before he would acknowledge,

oh, well, I meant it
to be funny, which is a lie.

I think Tommy,
first of all, as a writer

I think he thinks
he's Tennessee Williams.

His goal with "The Room"

was to become
the next Marlon Brando.

I think his "Lisa!"

I think that's all like
"Streetcar Named Desire."

Hey, Stella!

You're tearing me apart, Lisa!

Well, I appreciate
that he wanted to be

our generation's Marlon Brando.

We still had Marlon Brando,

but maybe he had just seen
"The Island of Dr. Moreau"

and was like,
I'm going to step in here.

I was in an acting class
with Tommy.

If I had to describe
his acting in as few words,

I would say...

For the making of this film,
he was using scenes

that he had written
in our scene study class.

Confusing.

You know, scene study classes
work like this.

You know, you get up there,
you do your scene,

you get off so the next actors
can get up there

and do their thing.
Not with Tommy.

Poor.
Tommy comes in.

He sets all the lights up.
He's setting it up.

Off.

He like basically
kept our class hostage.

Nobody else
could do their scenes

because he wouldn't
get off the stage.

And he finally
got kicked out of our class.

But that's not all, folks.

Arthritic.

Because he got kicked out...

Mild desperation.

He bought the building
and kicked us out.

If he had set the bar here
and said, you know,

I'm going to be
this generation's

early Shia LaBeouf.

And then, you know,
he's closer to that.

My favorite scene
in "The Room"

would have to be
the Chris-R scene

because I feel like
it encapsulates

everything that's insane
about the movie.

This drug dealer shows up
for 30 seconds

and you have this, you know,
ridiculous fight that occurs,

and then all of the characters

end up on the roof
for no reason,

and then they all walk off together.

Where's my
fucking money, Denny?

Put the gun down.
Where's my fucking money?

Where's my fucking money, Denny?

Get off him.

Shit!

Get back, Denny.
Shut up!

What's going on?
Somebody help!

Shut up!
Shut up!

Let's take him to the police.

You're fucking dead!

There's too many good scenes,

and every one
of the iconic scenes,

you know, are great.

You know, the I did not hit her,
I did not, I did not.

Oh, hi, Mark.
I mean, that one.

I did that hit her.
It's not true.

It's bullshit.
I did not hit her.

I did not.

Oh, hi, Mark.

Well, as an actor,
I think that line

is about as juicy
as a line gets.

Sometimes less is more.

Sometimes more is more,
and in that case, more is more.

I remember like watching
"The Room"

become like, you know,
an underground sensation.

If you knew, you knew, and if
you're hip, oh, you loved it.

If you were in a big city,
heavens, man.

And then I remember
it got so serious

that they made a movie about it.

The set of the alleyway looks
exactly like the real alleyway.

That's right.

Well, why don't we just shoot
in the real alleyway?

Because it's
a real Hollywood movie.

No, yeah, sounds good.

Okay.
Action.

I did not hit her.
I did not.

Oh, hi, Mark.

James Franco,
he actually read the book first

and thought it was just a very,
very insane Hollywood story.

He's the perfect guy
to have adapted it.

I think "The Room" is one of the
greatest cult films of all time

because it's done something
that no other film has ever done

in the sense that it's played
now in theaters for 15 years.

It never had any really
any chance of making it.

It never had any help.
It never had any stars.

And it's continued to screen
around the world

just by the voice of the people.

I didn't see a bad movie.
I saw passion.

You know, I saw "Clerks"
when I saw that movie.

Those guys are all
busting their ass,

and I guarantee you

they all thought it was
going to be their big break,

because that's how you feel.

And I guess for some of them,
you know, they're right.

It was.

People usually ask me,
do you regret doing "The Room?"

And I always think, how could I?

You know, you could be
in 10 films that are good

that would have never,
you know, responded with people

the way this one does.

So at the end of the day,

it's about being in a film
that people love.

They had a bit
of a longer climb,

but wound up getting

a movie that lives in infamy.