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1
00:00:07,924 --> 00:00:11,261
I feel like something bad
is gonna happen to me.
2
00:00:12,971 --> 00:00:15,223
I feel like something bad
has happened.
3
00:00:16,391 --> 00:00:18,977
It hasn't reached me yet
but it's on its way.
4
00:00:31,448 --> 00:00:33,408
I don't know why
it's important...
5
00:00:33,491 --> 00:00:36,453
...like, how it helps people
to deal with loss...
6
00:00:36,536 --> 00:00:39,497
...by making up stories
about ghosts or whatever.
7
00:00:51,509 --> 00:00:52,802
Alice kept secrets.
8
00:00:54,012 --> 00:00:57,640
She kept the fact
she kept secrets a secret.
9
00:01:07,275 --> 00:01:09,694
It's hard for some people
to understand.
10
00:01:10,320 --> 00:01:12,238
You've to believe
you're to blame...
11
00:01:12,322 --> 00:01:14,574
...otherwise there's
nothing to hold on to.
12
00:01:49,359 --> 00:01:50,527
Emergency services.
13
00:01:50,610 --> 00:01:53,238
My daughter Alice
has gone. We need...
14
00:02:04,541 --> 00:02:08,586
She's been missing.
Send someone up.
15
00:02:08,670 --> 00:02:10,964
I need you to talk
to me for a second.
16
00:02:13,216 --> 00:02:14,426
Can you hear me?
17
00:02:25,270 --> 00:02:28,314
The normally tranquil setting
of Ararat's novel dam...
18
00:02:28,398 --> 00:02:30,483
...was shattered
with the disappearance...
19
00:02:30,567 --> 00:02:32,193
...of 1 6 year-old
Alice Palmer...
20
00:02:32,235 --> 00:02:33,361
...while picnicking.
21
00:02:33,403 --> 00:02:36,239
We received a call
around 6 p.m. tonight...
22
00:02:36,322 --> 00:02:37,574
...over a missing girl.
23
00:02:37,657 --> 00:02:40,160
Upon discovering the nature
of the situation...
24
00:02:40,243 --> 00:02:42,662
...we called in the search
and rescue divers.
25
00:02:42,704 --> 00:02:45,206
Police divers entered
the water around 1 0...
26
00:02:45,290 --> 00:02:47,917
...with volunteers joining
a fruitless search.
27
00:02:48,001 --> 00:02:50,962
They'd swum out
to the middle of the dam.
28
00:02:51,671 --> 00:02:54,632
I could see them
from where I was sitting...
29
00:02:54,716 --> 00:02:56,092
...in the picnic area.
30
00:02:56,176 --> 00:02:58,345
I think I'd been
in the water 1 5 min...
31
00:02:58,386 --> 00:03:02,015
...and I said I'd get out
because I was cold.
32
00:03:03,183 --> 00:03:06,561
So l started swimming back and
she didn't come out with me...
33
00:03:06,644 --> 00:03:08,396
...she said she'd stay there.
34
00:03:09,939 --> 00:03:11,524
l remember Matty got out.
35
00:03:13,902 --> 00:03:17,530
A few minutes later
l heard him ask...
36
00:03:17,572 --> 00:03:18,907
...where was Alice.
37
00:03:22,494 --> 00:03:27,207
So l stood up and
looked out across the dam.
38
00:03:28,958 --> 00:03:30,794
The water was
completely still.
39
00:03:32,212 --> 00:03:33,546
So I called out.
40
00:03:35,382 --> 00:03:37,884
I looked out
over the water...
41
00:03:37,926 --> 00:03:39,719
...to see if I could see her.
42
00:03:42,430 --> 00:03:45,475
And both the boys had
kind of checked...
43
00:03:46,017 --> 00:03:49,521
...you know,
the bush land behind.
44
00:03:50,313 --> 00:03:53,817
l could see Alice's towel.
She'd left it on the ground.
45
00:03:55,694 --> 00:03:58,113
She clearly hadn't gone
out of the water...
46
00:03:58,196 --> 00:04:00,699
...because she would've
picked up her towel.
47
00:04:03,535 --> 00:04:06,871
That was the last time
that l saw her.
48
00:04:28,309 --> 00:04:30,562
Police continue to hold
their search...
49
00:04:30,603 --> 00:04:32,605
...for 1 6 year-old
Alice Palmer...
50
00:04:32,689 --> 00:04:35,608
...who disappeared while
picnicking with her family.
51
00:04:36,192 --> 00:04:37,944
We were told to go home.
52
00:04:41,740 --> 00:04:44,534
lf the search and rescue
divers found anything...
53
00:04:44,576 --> 00:04:46,870
...then they'd let us know
immediately.
54
00:04:58,381 --> 00:05:01,176
It felt very strange
in the car on the way home...
55
00:05:01,259 --> 00:05:03,345
...because there was
one empty seat.
56
00:05:03,762 --> 00:05:05,889
One minute she was there
and then...
57
00:05:07,974 --> 00:05:08,933
...gone.
58
00:05:11,478 --> 00:05:14,272
I went back to stay
with the Palmer's that night.
59
00:05:14,356 --> 00:05:17,567
We were just mostly waiting.
Waiting for news...
60
00:05:19,611 --> 00:05:23,823
...and for bad news.
There was that expectation.
61
00:05:24,908 --> 00:05:27,869
We got a call from Russell
on his mobile...
62
00:05:27,911 --> 00:05:29,788
...at about 9 o'clock at night.
63
00:05:29,871 --> 00:05:33,875
He said there'd been
an accident at the dam...
64
00:05:34,542 --> 00:05:38,421
...and Alice had gone missing.
So, we thought...
65
00:05:38,463 --> 00:05:40,882
...we'd better go.
66
00:05:41,716 --> 00:05:45,095
l remember June was
a bit funny...
67
00:05:45,178 --> 00:05:47,222
...about seeing lris.
68
00:05:47,263 --> 00:05:50,058
There was a strange
feeling between them.
69
00:05:51,351 --> 00:05:54,396
lt felt a little strange
having my mother there.
70
00:05:55,772 --> 00:05:57,899
Mum, l and,
therefore, Alice.
71
00:05:59,693 --> 00:06:02,654
It just didn't feel like
the right order of things.
72
00:06:05,115 --> 00:06:06,908
It was an awful,
awful night.
73
00:06:08,284 --> 00:06:09,869
Worse night of our lives.
74
00:06:15,083 --> 00:06:17,460
I went into Alice's room
later that night.
75
00:06:17,544 --> 00:06:21,548
Her phone went off
a couple of times...
76
00:06:21,631 --> 00:06:24,259
...but I didn't answer it.
77
00:06:30,890 --> 00:06:32,809
I remember the bed
was made.
78
00:06:34,394 --> 00:06:37,230
I remember thinking
how neat everything looked.
79
00:06:51,703 --> 00:06:54,914
I got a call from
Alice's mum, June.
80
00:06:55,290 --> 00:06:58,585
She'd said that Alice
was missing...
81
00:06:58,668 --> 00:07:01,087
...and presumed
that she drowned.
82
00:07:03,173 --> 00:07:04,799
l did not believe her...
83
00:07:04,883 --> 00:07:09,179
...but, I don't know,
it was hard to take...
84
00:07:09,262 --> 00:07:12,724
...so I actually called
Alice's mobile.
85
00:07:13,266 --> 00:07:14,267
l just...
86
00:07:16,936 --> 00:07:19,981
l wanted to see if it was
a joke or something.
87
00:07:22,734 --> 00:07:24,027
A real shock.
88
00:07:25,904 --> 00:07:28,823
Just didn't really feel
like it was real.
89
00:07:31,034 --> 00:07:33,078
Everything was the same
as always...
90
00:07:33,161 --> 00:07:35,955
...but people were saying
that Alice had drowned.
91
00:07:36,289 --> 00:07:39,376
Are there memories from
that night stand out for you?
92
00:07:41,836 --> 00:07:44,089
l remember we had
the porch light on.
93
00:07:45,632 --> 00:07:47,759
We still do, actually,
just in case.
94
00:07:49,594 --> 00:07:50,595
And why is that?
95
00:07:59,729 --> 00:08:01,856
Just in case she comes home,
l guess.
96
00:08:30,677 --> 00:08:35,265
Divers located Alice's body
at approximately 9:25 p.m.
97
00:08:35,932 --> 00:08:39,769
They used sonar to locate her.
She drifted someway...
98
00:08:39,811 --> 00:08:41,730
...and came to rest
on a shelf...
99
00:08:41,813 --> 00:08:44,274
...at the bottom
of the storm water system.
100
00:08:45,442 --> 00:08:48,069
Obviously we contacted
the family immediately.
101
00:08:49,362 --> 00:08:52,032
As soon as we were told
they'd found the body...
102
00:08:52,115 --> 00:08:54,993
...June and I went down
to the dam.
103
00:08:55,910 --> 00:08:59,122
It was all very official
and formal.
104
00:08:59,205 --> 00:09:02,250
They asked me to sign a
statement of identification.
105
00:09:02,292 --> 00:09:03,918
June stayed in the car.
106
00:09:06,296 --> 00:09:08,798
On reflection, l think
that was a mistake...
107
00:09:08,882 --> 00:09:11,134
...because she didn't
have any closure.
108
00:09:13,428 --> 00:09:17,557
I just couldn't bring myself
to identify Alice's body.
109
00:09:18,516 --> 00:09:21,102
She'd been underwater
all that time.
110
00:09:22,937 --> 00:09:24,481
l guess it's not how l...
111
00:09:25,899 --> 00:09:29,027
I didn't want to remember her
that way.
112
00:09:29,861 --> 00:09:31,946
l thought it
my responsibility...
113
00:09:31,988 --> 00:09:35,408
...as Allie's dad, you know?
114
00:09:37,911 --> 00:09:39,704
That's what a father does.
115
00:09:59,766 --> 00:10:02,310
The car stalled on the way
back from the dam.
116
00:10:02,727 --> 00:10:05,313
The only gear I could
get into was reverse.
117
00:10:06,022 --> 00:10:09,651
So we drove back to town
in reverse...
118
00:10:10,485 --> 00:10:12,529
...which was either that
or walk...
119
00:10:12,612 --> 00:10:15,156
...and given everything
that had happened...
120
00:10:15,532 --> 00:10:18,076
...it seemed like
the better option, really.
121
00:10:29,546 --> 00:10:32,382
The autopsy was performed
on the 27 th.
122
00:10:35,343 --> 00:10:37,762
Then the coroner
released the body...
123
00:10:37,846 --> 00:10:40,849
...on Tuesday the 28th.
124
00:10:44,269 --> 00:10:45,979
It was very strange...
125
00:10:46,312 --> 00:10:49,149
...spending Christmas day
with the family there...
126
00:10:49,190 --> 00:10:51,651
...while Alice lay alone
in the morgue.
127
00:11:02,245 --> 00:11:05,332
I don't know, it was like I
hadn't seen her for a week.
128
00:11:06,791 --> 00:11:08,668
lt didn't feel real.
129
00:11:14,174 --> 00:11:16,217
Death takes everything,
eventually.
130
00:11:16,968 --> 00:11:19,387
It's the meanest, dumbest
machine there is.
131
00:11:19,471 --> 00:11:21,556
It keeps coming
and it doesn't care.
132
00:11:24,059 --> 00:11:26,686
There's nothing else to know
about it, really.
133
00:11:29,522 --> 00:11:31,483
It was a somber day
for the family...
134
00:11:31,566 --> 00:11:34,277
...and friends of Alice Palmer
who gathered to pay...
135
00:11:34,361 --> 00:11:37,322
...their final respects
to a young woman taken too soon.
136
00:11:37,697 --> 00:11:39,991
She was a great person.
Very popular...
137
00:11:40,533 --> 00:11:41,826
...clever, lovely.
138
00:11:44,371 --> 00:11:47,165
Alice is remembered as
a happy, fun-loving girl...
139
00:11:47,207 --> 00:11:50,168
...with a zest for life.
Described as always...
140
00:11:50,210 --> 00:11:53,505
The Palmer's were really
doing tough at the time.
141
00:11:55,423 --> 00:11:57,801
l think about how bad
it was back then...
142
00:11:59,010 --> 00:12:01,805
...it was hard to imagine
how worse it would get.
143
00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:19,614
1 0 days after Allie's funeral,
the 1 5th of January...
144
00:12:19,698 --> 00:12:22,242
...stuff started happening
around the house.
145
00:12:23,284 --> 00:12:24,536
Noises on the roof.
146
00:12:27,288 --> 00:12:30,250
Sounds coming outside
the windows...
147
00:12:30,333 --> 00:12:33,128
...and other movements
that seemed to come...
148
00:12:33,211 --> 00:12:34,754
...from Allie's old room.
149
00:12:36,131 --> 00:12:39,050
So we rehung the door...
150
00:12:39,634 --> 00:12:42,429
...to Allie's room and
we got a pest controller...
151
00:12:42,512 --> 00:12:44,639
...to come in and check
for termites.
152
00:12:45,015 --> 00:12:47,892
It didn't help at all.
Doors kept slamming...
153
00:12:47,976 --> 00:12:50,812
...and we still kept getting
noises from her room.
154
00:12:53,815 --> 00:12:56,526
There was just something
weird about that house.
155
00:12:56,609 --> 00:12:59,404
It had a fairly strange
feeling about it...
156
00:12:59,487 --> 00:13:03,324
...I can't explain to you
what it was exactly.
157
00:13:04,075 --> 00:13:06,911
You'd go in there
and have this bad feeling...
158
00:13:06,995 --> 00:13:08,371
...in your gut.
159
00:13:17,797 --> 00:13:19,966
I started having
these nightmares...
160
00:13:20,884 --> 00:13:24,512
...and they were
so distressing...
161
00:13:24,596 --> 00:13:27,182
...that sometimes
I wouldn't want...
162
00:13:28,516 --> 00:13:29,851
...to open my eyes.
163
00:13:30,226 --> 00:13:32,896
l'd woken up but l didn't
want to open my eyes.
164
00:13:34,814 --> 00:13:37,692
There was one particular one.
It was quite vivid...
165
00:13:38,485 --> 00:13:41,654
...and recurring. Alice would
come down the hall...
166
00:13:42,238 --> 00:13:44,282
...still dripping
from the dam...
167
00:13:44,783 --> 00:13:47,786
...and just stand at
the foot of our bed...
168
00:13:47,869 --> 00:13:52,540
...staring at us.
It was quite terrifying.
169
00:13:52,624 --> 00:13:55,126
As I said, I didn't want
to open my eyes.
170
00:13:59,547 --> 00:14:00,965
By early February...
171
00:14:01,049 --> 00:14:03,551
...my nightmares were
getting so bad that...
172
00:14:04,010 --> 00:14:06,179
...I began to go
for walks at night...
173
00:14:06,846 --> 00:14:08,765
...sometimes
for hours at a time.
174
00:14:08,848 --> 00:14:11,393
Just so that I didn't
have to go to bed...
175
00:14:11,476 --> 00:14:13,645
...close my eyes
and go to sleep.
176
00:14:17,649 --> 00:14:20,694
Sometimes, I'd actually
go into people's houses.
177
00:14:21,569 --> 00:14:24,239
I didn't feel like I was
doing anything wrong.
178
00:14:25,365 --> 00:14:30,245
l guess l really wanted to be
in someone else's life.
179
00:14:41,965 --> 00:14:44,175
Do you remember
how Russell was doing?
180
00:14:45,051 --> 00:14:48,513
Yeah, Russell was
working a lot.
181
00:14:49,014 --> 00:14:51,641
At that point, I think
it might've helped him...
182
00:14:51,725 --> 00:14:52,892
...with his grief.
183
00:14:55,854 --> 00:15:00,316
Russell and I met
on a project in '98.
184
00:15:00,900 --> 00:15:02,402
We worked together.
185
00:15:02,902 --> 00:15:04,863
You've known each
other for years?
186
00:15:04,946 --> 00:15:06,322
Yeah, a good few years.
187
00:15:08,908 --> 00:15:11,578
Do you remember him
after Alice's death?
188
00:15:11,661 --> 00:15:14,497
-What changed?
-It was work as normal.
189
00:15:16,624 --> 00:15:20,253
It was troubling, I didn't
know what to say.
190
00:15:22,088 --> 00:15:23,715
Did you notice a breakdown?
191
00:15:23,757 --> 00:15:26,718
Not really. Everyone grieves
in their own way.
192
00:15:27,927 --> 00:15:31,473
lt wasn't really my place
to tell him how to feel...
193
00:15:32,766 --> 00:15:35,393
...but l certainly
was concerned.
194
00:15:37,687 --> 00:15:40,523
I was really grateful
that I had my work.
195
00:15:41,149 --> 00:15:43,818
l felt really guilty
about that at the time...
196
00:15:44,402 --> 00:15:47,614
...but l just wanted
to get on with it.
197
00:15:53,203 --> 00:15:56,706
One night in late February,
I came home from work...
198
00:15:56,748 --> 00:15:58,875
...and I was sitting
in the kitchen.
199
00:15:59,834 --> 00:16:02,545
I heard a noise coming
from Allie's room.
200
00:16:04,339 --> 00:16:08,677
So I went into Allie's room.
I don't really know why...
201
00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:12,806
...but l found myself
sitting down on the chair...
202
00:16:12,889 --> 00:16:14,557
...in front of the dresser.
203
00:16:15,934 --> 00:16:18,395
Before l could work out
what l was doing...
204
00:16:18,478 --> 00:16:20,188
...Allie walked in.
205
00:16:20,563 --> 00:16:24,150
She went over to her desk,
sharpened a pencil...
206
00:16:24,234 --> 00:16:27,195
...and looked like
she was checking...
207
00:16:28,405 --> 00:16:30,407
...for text messages
on her phone.
208
00:16:32,158 --> 00:16:33,952
l was completely
freaked out.
209
00:16:35,620 --> 00:16:39,416
She was completely
oblivious to my presence.
210
00:16:41,126 --> 00:16:42,919
l don't know
what happened...
211
00:16:43,753 --> 00:16:46,631
...l must've moved the bed
or squeaked my shoes...
212
00:16:46,715 --> 00:16:49,092
...but she went
completely rigid.
213
00:16:50,677 --> 00:16:55,056
l knew then that she knew
that l was there.
214
00:16:56,182 --> 00:16:59,561
She slowly turned around,
looked me right in the eye...
215
00:17:00,937 --> 00:17:04,149
...fully for what felt
like forever...
216
00:17:04,941 --> 00:17:07,110
...and then she just
came at me.
217
00:17:08,069 --> 00:17:10,447
Stood up and said:
''Get out! Get out!''
218
00:17:10,864 --> 00:17:14,534
l got up and ran out
as fast as l could.
219
00:17:16,286 --> 00:17:19,748
l could hear Russell crying.
He was here in the kitchen...
220
00:17:19,789 --> 00:17:21,833
...Mathew and l
found him in here.
221
00:17:22,417 --> 00:17:23,752
He was sobbing.
222
00:17:23,793 --> 00:17:25,962
He was absolutely
inconsolable.
223
00:17:26,796 --> 00:17:29,758
Did you believe Russell
when he said he saw a ghost?
224
00:17:30,175 --> 00:17:33,345
Yeah, l do. l believe
he saw what he saw.
225
00:17:36,264 --> 00:17:38,892
He's not the kind of man
to make something up.
226
00:17:39,476 --> 00:17:41,353
So, l believe he saw something.
227
00:17:43,104 --> 00:17:46,941
Whether it's a real ghost
or not, l don't really know...
228
00:17:47,901 --> 00:17:49,819
...but l'm sure
he saw something.
229
00:18:07,796 --> 00:18:10,340
I remember trying
to talk to members...
230
00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:13,802
...of the church about
how to help June...
231
00:18:13,885 --> 00:18:15,762
...and how to help
the Palmers.
232
00:18:16,179 --> 00:18:20,308
There didn't seem to be
anything we could do.
233
00:18:21,184 --> 00:18:23,228
I think part
of the reason was...
234
00:18:23,603 --> 00:18:25,855
...because they weren't
church-goers...
235
00:18:26,439 --> 00:18:29,025
...and didn't know how
to offer them comfort.
236
00:18:31,403 --> 00:18:33,738
I don't even know
what June believes in.
237
00:18:35,448 --> 00:18:38,159
l found myself mostly
concerned about Mathew.
238
00:18:39,869 --> 00:18:42,622
I guess because those two
were always so close.
239
00:18:43,164 --> 00:18:45,667
I was worried
how he would cope.
240
00:18:53,633 --> 00:18:56,594
I remember he was
spending more time alone.
241
00:18:59,139 --> 00:19:00,849
We were worried about him.
242
00:19:04,561 --> 00:19:08,857
Mathew came in with some
unusual bruises on his body.
243
00:19:08,940 --> 00:19:12,193
Unusual in terms
of distribution and depth.
244
00:19:14,237 --> 00:19:18,074
We obviously took a history
trying to exclude trauma...
245
00:19:18,116 --> 00:19:21,828
...but there was no history
he was able to give us.
246
00:19:22,370 --> 00:19:26,291
We tested him for vasculitis,
excluded poisoning...
247
00:19:26,333 --> 00:19:28,126
...or toxins in his system.
248
00:19:28,877 --> 00:19:31,588
We were unable to turn up
anything conclusive...
249
00:19:31,671 --> 00:19:35,258
...and several weeks
after the bruises...
250
00:19:35,342 --> 00:19:39,596
...resolved spontaneously,
we were never really able...
251
00:19:39,679 --> 00:19:41,765
...to establish a cause
for them.
252
00:19:44,684 --> 00:19:47,645
My name is Steve Wilkie.
I'm Mathew's best friend.
253
00:19:48,188 --> 00:19:52,067
l usually stay at Mathew's
two or three times a week.
254
00:19:55,278 --> 00:19:57,655
We started a band together.
255
00:19:58,907 --> 00:20:01,242
We normally play music
at my house.
256
00:20:02,410 --> 00:20:04,537
Mathew seems
to be quieter...
257
00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:06,956
...but he was always
very quiet.
258
00:20:07,999 --> 00:20:10,835
I guess there weren't
warning bells going off.
259
00:20:12,003 --> 00:20:15,465
I'd heard about June
going into people's houses...
260
00:20:15,924 --> 00:20:18,927
...and Mathew never wanted
to talk about any of that.
261
00:20:18,968 --> 00:20:20,970
l never asked him
about any of it.
262
00:20:26,434 --> 00:20:29,354
I know that he was always
interested in photography.
263
00:20:29,437 --> 00:20:33,441
At this time he was
starting to pursue it...
264
00:20:33,525 --> 00:20:35,068
...with more passion.
265
00:20:39,322 --> 00:20:43,994
Mathew was very keen
to learn about photography...
266
00:20:44,077 --> 00:20:47,122
...so I was more
than willing to help out.
267
00:20:47,205 --> 00:20:48,456
That's what I do.
268
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:51,376
He was picking my brains
about anything...
269
00:20:52,043 --> 00:20:54,587
...from equipment,
to techniques, lighting.
270
00:20:56,297 --> 00:20:59,300
He was a great learner
and employee.
271
00:21:25,535 --> 00:21:27,537
Mathew, can you talk
to me about...
272
00:21:27,620 --> 00:21:29,789
...the photographs
of the backyard...
273
00:21:29,873 --> 00:21:31,624
...that you've been taking?
274
00:21:32,584 --> 00:21:35,837
Yeah, basically l've taken
that same photo...
275
00:21:37,005 --> 00:21:39,591
...with that composition
every three months...
276
00:21:39,674 --> 00:21:41,301
...for the past four years.
277
00:21:41,384 --> 00:21:44,012
It's just a photograph
of the backyard...
278
00:21:44,095 --> 00:21:46,598
...looking out,
you can see the hills.
279
00:21:46,973 --> 00:21:49,893
It's like a little project
that I set up...
280
00:21:49,976 --> 00:21:51,811
...for myself
when we got here.
281
00:21:52,312 --> 00:21:55,732
What was in the April 28th
photo that was different?
282
00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:01,321
Well, it was basically
the same shot...
283
00:22:01,780 --> 00:22:04,783
...but it would appear...
284
00:22:05,283 --> 00:22:08,953
...that Alice is standing
against the fence.
285
00:22:17,337 --> 00:22:19,964
Remember what the reaction
was at the house?
286
00:22:20,924 --> 00:22:22,926
I wouldn't say
the mood was good...
287
00:22:23,009 --> 00:22:25,637
...but it was better
than before.
288
00:22:26,513 --> 00:22:31,434
lt was like it gave us
something to focus on.
289
00:22:31,976 --> 00:22:32,936
All of this.
290
00:22:37,148 --> 00:22:39,901
The photographs were
taken on the 3rd of April...
291
00:22:39,984 --> 00:22:42,696
...they were developed
on the fourth...
292
00:22:42,779 --> 00:22:45,448
...l looked at them
on the fifth...
293
00:22:45,991 --> 00:22:49,494
...and looked at the dams
and water levels.
294
00:22:49,577 --> 00:22:52,455
l was quite happy
but the following night...
295
00:22:52,497 --> 00:22:54,582
...it was pointed out
to me by my wife...
296
00:22:54,666 --> 00:22:57,085
...that there was
something in the background.
297
00:22:57,168 --> 00:22:58,503
This image came up.
298
00:23:12,183 --> 00:23:14,436
When I first looked
at the photograph...
299
00:23:14,519 --> 00:23:16,563
...I didn't know
what to make of it.
300
00:23:16,646 --> 00:23:20,150
The image was quite unsettling
because it certainly...
301
00:23:21,276 --> 00:23:23,028
...looked like Alice.
302
00:23:24,070 --> 00:23:27,324
It was an incredibly
discomforting image.
303
00:23:32,078 --> 00:23:35,332
l became convinced
that Alice was still alive.
304
00:23:42,672 --> 00:23:45,342
I didn't have any
rational explanation...
305
00:23:45,383 --> 00:23:47,218
...for who was
in those photos.
306
00:23:48,386 --> 00:23:51,806
But l did notice something
about Alice that June didn't.
307
00:23:52,515 --> 00:23:54,601
l'd seen Alice's body.
308
00:23:56,102 --> 00:23:58,355
l didn't think
she was alive.
309
00:23:59,439 --> 00:24:01,358
l knew she wasn't.
310
00:24:01,941 --> 00:24:05,320
l became convinced that
Russell made a mistake.
311
00:24:06,363 --> 00:24:09,699
He himself said it didn't
look like anybody anymore.
312
00:24:12,369 --> 00:24:15,080
June was so convinced
that l'd made a mistake...
313
00:24:15,163 --> 00:24:17,832
...that l actually started
having doubts myself.
314
00:24:17,916 --> 00:24:19,584
l started to think maybe...
315
00:24:21,211 --> 00:24:24,464
...l'd made up in my mind
it was Alice's body...
316
00:24:24,547 --> 00:24:26,091
...before l looked.
317
00:24:27,676 --> 00:24:30,512
The circumstances were
so compelling to me...
318
00:24:32,681 --> 00:24:34,432
...that l decided it was her.
319
00:24:36,393 --> 00:24:38,645
More than 3 months
after the funeral...
320
00:24:38,687 --> 00:24:40,855
...of Ararat teenager
Alice Palmer...
321
00:24:40,939 --> 00:24:43,483
...her grieving parents
formally requested...
322
00:24:43,525 --> 00:24:45,902
...her body be exhumed
from the cemetery.
323
00:24:45,985 --> 00:24:47,445
Has been
some contention...
324
00:24:47,529 --> 00:24:49,948
...from the Palmer family
about the accuracy...
325
00:24:50,031 --> 00:24:52,283
...of the original
body identification.
326
00:24:52,367 --> 00:24:54,661
June and Russell Palmer
were adamant...
327
00:24:54,703 --> 00:24:56,746
...that DNA testing
be carried out.
328
00:24:57,080 --> 00:24:59,708
They couldn't be sure
the body they identified...
329
00:24:59,791 --> 00:25:00,875
...was indeed Alice.
330
00:25:01,793 --> 00:25:04,212
Alice's body was exhumed
in the presence...
331
00:25:04,295 --> 00:25:06,548
...of the funeral director,
Dr. Slatter.
332
00:25:06,631 --> 00:25:09,634
There was a representative
from the coroner's office.
333
00:25:10,010 --> 00:25:12,679
It was transported
to Ararat's hospital...
334
00:25:12,721 --> 00:25:14,806
...where they took
DNA samples...
335
00:25:15,223 --> 00:25:18,226
...and she stayed there
till the results came back.
336
00:25:22,731 --> 00:25:25,025
A few days later,
we received a copy...
337
00:25:25,108 --> 00:25:28,153
...of the coroner's full
preliminary report...
338
00:25:28,945 --> 00:25:31,990
...and Alice's identity
was confirmed...
339
00:25:32,032 --> 00:25:34,326
...by the DNA sample.
340
00:25:36,661 --> 00:25:39,664
It was only after
they'd confirmed...
341
00:25:39,706 --> 00:25:42,042
...it was Alice's body
that I realized...
342
00:25:42,125 --> 00:25:44,878
...how much l'd invested
in the possibility...
343
00:25:44,961 --> 00:25:46,713
...of it not being her.
344
00:25:47,547 --> 00:25:49,591
l can't tell you
how much l...
345
00:25:50,717 --> 00:25:53,553
...wanted there to have been
a terrible mistake...
346
00:25:53,595 --> 00:25:55,430
...even if it had been mine.
347
00:25:56,556 --> 00:25:59,017
Really, really wanted there
to have been...
348
00:25:59,059 --> 00:26:01,144
...someone else's kid
in that dam...
349
00:26:01,227 --> 00:26:05,190
...runaway or murder victim.
Anyone else's...
350
00:26:05,273 --> 00:26:08,610
...as long as it wasn't my kid.
As long as it wasn't Alice.
351
00:26:52,987 --> 00:26:55,031
Alice was reburied
two days later...
352
00:26:55,115 --> 00:26:56,574
...on the 7 th of June.
353
00:26:58,952 --> 00:27:00,620
But the question remained.
354
00:27:01,162 --> 00:27:04,040
Who or what
was in those photos?
355
00:27:26,187 --> 00:27:28,356
I continued to hear things.
356
00:27:29,441 --> 00:27:31,818
-What did you hear?
-l was hearing noises.
357
00:27:31,901 --> 00:27:35,071
They were relentless.
l heard them in the hallway...
358
00:27:35,697 --> 00:27:38,950
...so I thought I'd set up
a camera to see...
359
00:27:39,034 --> 00:27:42,662
...if I see anything.
If I see something.
360
00:28:07,604 --> 00:28:11,483
The first night
I looked back...
361
00:28:11,566 --> 00:28:13,860
...and there was footage
of a figure...
362
00:28:14,778 --> 00:28:19,741
...moving from the room,
across the hallway...
363
00:28:20,158 --> 00:28:21,660
...to the front door.
364
00:28:33,004 --> 00:28:35,548
You're on Voice FM,
two minutes past eight.
365
00:28:35,590 --> 00:28:37,884
I'm Helen Bath
and we're taking calls...
366
00:28:37,926 --> 00:28:40,345
...with psychic consultant
Ray Kemeny.
367
00:28:40,762 --> 00:28:42,847
Next, we have Nigel
on the line, Ray.
368
00:28:42,931 --> 00:28:45,558
Hi, Nigel, how are you?
What can I do for you?
369
00:28:49,396 --> 00:28:51,648
It was around that time
that I decided...
370
00:28:51,731 --> 00:28:54,109
...to seek out the advice
of Ray Kemeny.
371
00:28:54,818 --> 00:28:58,238
I had heard Ray
on the radio over the years.
372
00:28:59,072 --> 00:29:00,991
Opinion was quite divided.
373
00:29:01,074 --> 00:29:03,118
Some thought he was
the real deal...
374
00:29:03,201 --> 00:29:04,828
...others were unconvinced.
375
00:29:04,911 --> 00:29:06,746
Next, we have Annie
on the line.
376
00:29:06,830 --> 00:29:08,540
Hi, Annie, how are you?
377
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,292
Thanks for taking
my call, Ray.
378
00:29:11,376 --> 00:29:13,378
My pleasure.
What can l do for you?
379
00:29:13,753 --> 00:29:16,715
I just wanted
a general reading.
380
00:29:18,341 --> 00:29:20,802
General?
Not just medical?
381
00:29:21,261 --> 00:29:23,054
I'm Hungarian by birth.
382
00:29:23,096 --> 00:29:25,890
My parents came out here
when I was quite young.
383
00:29:26,307 --> 00:29:28,601
I have a 1 5 year-old daughter
who lives...
384
00:29:28,643 --> 00:29:30,645
...with her mother
in south Australia.
385
00:29:30,729 --> 00:29:32,897
My Christian name
is actually Scholtz...
386
00:29:32,939 --> 00:29:34,441
...but I changed it to Ray.
387
00:29:34,774 --> 00:29:37,694
I think it's a more
trustworthy name for a psychic.
388
00:29:40,113 --> 00:29:42,449
Australia's psychic of choice.
389
00:29:45,910 --> 00:29:48,496
Most of what I do
is when I'm dealing...
390
00:29:48,580 --> 00:29:53,251
...with the sick or dying,
they're a third of my clients.
391
00:29:54,711 --> 00:29:58,256
lt allows them the possibility
that death isn't the bitter end.
392
00:30:00,300 --> 00:30:01,801
lt's not the full stop...
393
00:30:01,843 --> 00:30:04,429
...which is a consolation
l'm happy to give them...
394
00:30:04,512 --> 00:30:07,098
...considering the fact
that what happens...
395
00:30:07,182 --> 00:30:09,351
...after death is
up for grabs anyway.
396
00:30:09,434 --> 00:30:12,312
lt's somebody very
close to you.
397
00:30:12,395 --> 00:30:14,522
Someone you haven't
seen for a while.
398
00:30:15,607 --> 00:30:18,443
Someone who's going
to come back to your life.
399
00:30:18,902 --> 00:30:21,404
Someone who'll be
of great comfort to you.
400
00:30:23,740 --> 00:30:25,116
Anyone fits that bill?
401
00:30:26,117 --> 00:30:27,869
Yeah, I can think
of someone.
402
00:30:28,286 --> 00:30:31,247
l won't lie to you, Annie,
l can see obstacles here.
403
00:30:31,623 --> 00:30:34,501
I think that this person
who's coming back to you...
404
00:30:34,584 --> 00:30:36,628
...is going to make
a great difference...
405
00:30:36,711 --> 00:30:38,713
...and will be
of great solace to you.
406
00:30:39,923 --> 00:30:41,091
Thank you.
407
00:30:42,550 --> 00:30:44,094
See you, Annie.
408
00:31:00,068 --> 00:31:02,278
Where I come from,
when someone dies...
409
00:31:02,362 --> 00:31:04,698
...they block out
the mirrors in the house...
410
00:31:04,781 --> 00:31:07,617
...to stop the dead
from finding their way back.
411
00:31:08,493 --> 00:31:10,578
Things like that
make a difference.
412
00:31:19,379 --> 00:31:21,089
Hello, l'm Ray.
413
00:31:33,059 --> 00:31:34,561
lt's okay to die, Annie.
414
00:31:36,730 --> 00:31:38,940
lt's just the start
of something else.
415
00:31:43,153 --> 00:31:44,279
lt's all right.
416
00:31:50,493 --> 00:31:53,788
I liked Ray immediately.
He wasn't what I expected.
417
00:31:53,830 --> 00:31:56,499
l don't know what
l really expected...
418
00:31:56,583 --> 00:31:59,085
...but there was nothing
kind of spooky...
419
00:31:59,169 --> 00:32:00,587
...or fake about him.
420
00:32:11,264 --> 00:32:13,058
Okay, ready?
421
00:32:16,895 --> 00:32:18,563
Want you to close your eyes.
422
00:32:18,646 --> 00:32:20,482
I usually videotape
my sessions...
423
00:32:20,565 --> 00:32:23,443
...so they can be
reviewed by the clients...
424
00:32:23,777 --> 00:32:26,446
...especially when there's
elements of trance...
425
00:32:26,529 --> 00:32:28,114
...or hypnotism involved.
426
00:32:28,823 --> 00:32:31,201
I keep a copy for myself
and one for them.
427
00:32:31,660 --> 00:32:33,453
Better to be safe than sorry.
428
00:32:33,536 --> 00:32:36,247
Okay, so you're standing
outside your house.
429
00:32:37,666 --> 00:32:38,958
Tell me what you see.
430
00:32:44,506 --> 00:32:47,759
My house.
It's a white house.
431
00:32:49,302 --> 00:32:51,304
I'm walking towards
the front door.
432
00:32:52,263 --> 00:32:55,266
l want you to go
inside the house.
433
00:32:55,308 --> 00:32:57,644
l want you to move
slowly from the house.
434
00:32:57,727 --> 00:33:00,105
l want you to describe
what you see...
435
00:33:02,023 --> 00:33:04,984
...where you are,
give me a guided tour.
436
00:33:17,163 --> 00:33:20,500
Okay, I'm walking
down the hallway...
437
00:33:21,167 --> 00:33:22,919
...towards Alice's room.
438
00:33:28,383 --> 00:33:29,342
What's there?
439
00:33:30,010 --> 00:33:33,805
I can see Alice's shoes
outside her room.
440
00:33:36,599 --> 00:33:39,144
What does that mean
for you, June?
441
00:33:42,856 --> 00:33:46,526
She always used to leave
her sneakers out of her room.
442
00:33:49,279 --> 00:33:51,614
I want you to go inside
her room now.
443
00:33:52,532 --> 00:33:55,285
Open the door
and just move inside.
444
00:33:55,827 --> 00:33:59,914
Do you feel safe enough
to go in to Alice's room?
445
00:34:02,125 --> 00:34:04,794
-Okay.
-Now open the door.
446
00:34:08,757 --> 00:34:11,092
I'm going inside her room.
447
00:34:25,482 --> 00:34:27,442
You can see something,
can't you?
448
00:34:28,860 --> 00:34:30,820
Tell me what you see, June.
449
00:34:32,864 --> 00:34:33,865
She's...
450
00:34:36,368 --> 00:34:38,203
Alice is sitting...
451
00:34:38,745 --> 00:34:41,289
...on the wicker chair
at the end of her bed.
452
00:34:50,173 --> 00:34:52,175
She looks up.
453
00:34:57,305 --> 00:34:58,682
I first met Ray when...
454
00:34:58,723 --> 00:35:00,642
...June brought him
home for dinner...
455
00:35:00,684 --> 00:35:02,769
...the night of her
first consultation.
456
00:35:03,937 --> 00:35:06,272
l'm completely indifferent
to psychics...
457
00:35:06,356 --> 00:35:08,733
...l don't have a position
on them at all.
458
00:35:08,817 --> 00:35:11,945
l barely mind having him
come to dinner...
459
00:35:12,028 --> 00:35:14,197
...but I didn't want
to upset June.
460
00:35:16,366 --> 00:35:18,326
He was a pleasant
sort of a bloke.
461
00:35:18,368 --> 00:35:21,663
He wasn't spooky at all.
I was on my best behavior.
462
00:35:22,664 --> 00:35:25,500
A few days later,
maybe a week later...
463
00:35:25,542 --> 00:35:28,586
...l suggested to the family
that we hold a sะนance.
464
00:35:29,462 --> 00:35:32,382
June was really keen
but l remember Russell just...
465
00:35:32,966 --> 00:35:34,426
...flat out refused.
466
00:35:34,884 --> 00:35:37,429
l think Mathew finally talked
his dad around.
467
00:35:37,512 --> 00:35:40,390
Mathew, how did you feel
about having a sะนance?
468
00:35:43,435 --> 00:35:46,187
At the time l was actually
quite interested...
469
00:35:47,022 --> 00:35:48,648
...sort of curious.
470
00:35:48,732 --> 00:35:52,569
l don't think Dad was thrilled
about the idea...
471
00:35:53,194 --> 00:35:57,157
...but, yeah, l thought
it would be interesting...
472
00:35:58,199 --> 00:36:00,327
...and l suggested
we filmed it.
473
00:36:00,368 --> 00:36:03,872
And I recorded this
with a video camera...
474
00:36:03,955 --> 00:36:05,665
...which is the PC9.
475
00:36:09,127 --> 00:36:11,671
l'm getting a strong
presence in the room...
476
00:36:13,048 --> 00:36:14,174
...in the house.
477
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,513
I think we all thought
the sะนance was a failure.
478
00:36:21,222 --> 00:36:24,267
Ray didn't really
come up with anything...
479
00:36:24,351 --> 00:36:28,313
...like any signs.
So after about an hour...
480
00:36:28,396 --> 00:36:30,023
...we called it quits.
481
00:36:30,690 --> 00:36:33,193
lt was not until
the next day...
482
00:36:34,110 --> 00:36:37,447
...that Mathew was
reviewing the footage...
483
00:36:37,530 --> 00:36:40,408
...that there was
an image of Alice.
484
00:36:40,784 --> 00:36:42,911
Make your presence
known to us.
485
00:37:03,765 --> 00:37:06,226
The new footage
was completely different...
486
00:37:06,267 --> 00:37:07,977
...to the hallway footage.
487
00:37:08,812 --> 00:37:11,815
For one, it was significantly
more detailed...
488
00:37:11,898 --> 00:37:13,650
...so it was less ambiguous.
489
00:37:14,985 --> 00:37:17,946
lt was impossible
to dismiss it...
490
00:37:18,029 --> 00:37:21,783
...as a coincidence
of shadow play...
491
00:37:22,242 --> 00:37:23,702
...or digital noise.
492
00:37:25,412 --> 00:37:29,457
There was something
inexplicable in our house.
493
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:31,668
That was beyond doubt.
494
00:37:34,921 --> 00:37:36,006
I was concerned.
495
00:37:37,424 --> 00:37:40,051
This was pretty unfamiliar
territory for me...
496
00:37:41,720 --> 00:37:43,513
...and that was terrifying.
497
00:38:01,614 --> 00:38:04,284
Ray got Mathew
to help him set up...
498
00:38:04,367 --> 00:38:06,828
...three permanent cameras
inside the house.
499
00:38:06,911 --> 00:38:11,374
Recording in time lapse
configuration 24 hrs a day.
500
00:38:13,209 --> 00:38:15,837
There'd been a lot
of speculation about Ray...
501
00:38:17,422 --> 00:38:19,049
...what he was doing there.
502
00:38:19,132 --> 00:38:22,135
When people don't know...
503
00:38:22,218 --> 00:38:24,888
...it leads to a lot of talk.
504
00:38:25,764 --> 00:38:28,016
l had heard rumors
throughout July...
505
00:38:28,058 --> 00:38:31,936
...of video images reporting
an apparition in the house.
506
00:38:33,104 --> 00:38:36,566
l was skeptical
as to their legitimacy.
507
00:38:37,484 --> 00:38:39,027
And your view on Ray?
508
00:38:40,236 --> 00:38:41,863
Also very skeptical.
509
00:38:42,489 --> 00:38:44,908
l think they had me
as a Rasputin figure...
510
00:38:44,991 --> 00:38:47,911
...mesmerizing the Palmers,
stealing their money...
511
00:38:47,952 --> 00:38:49,746
...altering the photos
of Alice.
512
00:38:49,829 --> 00:38:52,791
Happy birthday to you!
513
00:38:52,874 --> 00:38:54,959
Mathew in particular
seemed to be...
514
00:38:55,043 --> 00:38:56,461
...really struggling.
515
00:38:57,087 --> 00:39:00,131
Happy birthday,
dear Mathew!
516
00:39:02,634 --> 00:39:05,428
I thought I might be able
to help by being there.
517
00:39:09,766 --> 00:39:12,644
That's it. My main
motivation was professional.
518
00:39:12,727 --> 00:39:14,479
Something was happening...
519
00:39:14,562 --> 00:39:16,648
...and l wanted to find out
what it was.
520
00:40:12,412 --> 00:40:14,706
What was your reaction
to these images?
521
00:40:16,499 --> 00:40:19,210
We were completely
gob smacked by them.
522
00:40:21,296 --> 00:40:24,215
But before we had time
to take in what they meant...
523
00:40:24,257 --> 00:40:26,092
...the Withers video
came out.
524
00:40:28,053 --> 00:40:29,512
-Is it good?
-It's great.
525
00:40:29,596 --> 00:40:32,599
-Can I have a look?
-Yeah, be careful.
526
00:40:33,099 --> 00:40:35,143
Cathy and Doug
were at the dam...
527
00:40:35,226 --> 00:40:38,104
...on April 3rd,
the same day...
528
00:40:38,146 --> 00:40:40,106
...the Bob Smeet
photo was taken.
529
00:40:40,148 --> 00:40:42,484
-Careful!
-What do you think I'll do?
530
00:40:44,235 --> 00:40:45,779
Be careful.
531
00:40:47,656 --> 00:40:49,407
Take my hand, babe.
532
00:40:52,410 --> 00:40:54,371
lt was a couple
of months later...
533
00:40:54,454 --> 00:40:55,955
...at the end of July...
534
00:40:56,039 --> 00:41:00,251
...when we were looking
at our footage...
535
00:41:01,086 --> 00:41:04,172
...that we'd shot at the dam
and kind of crossed...
536
00:41:05,298 --> 00:41:07,384
There's a figure
in the background...
537
00:41:07,467 --> 00:41:09,928
...which we identified
as Bob Smeet...
538
00:41:11,304 --> 00:41:15,308
...which interested us
because we thought:
539
00:41:15,392 --> 00:41:17,644
''Oh, it was the same day
he was there...
540
00:41:17,727 --> 00:41:21,022
...when he captured the image
people were talking about.''
541
00:41:21,106 --> 00:41:24,359
Then we went through
all our footage...
542
00:41:24,442 --> 00:41:27,153
...to see if we'd captured
the figure as well...
543
00:41:27,696 --> 00:41:28,613
...and we did.
544
00:41:28,697 --> 00:41:30,907
To see if the camera saw
what Bob saw.
545
00:41:31,992 --> 00:41:34,369
We did find a figure
in the background...
546
00:41:35,161 --> 00:41:37,664
...like the image that
had been described...
547
00:41:37,747 --> 00:41:41,459
...in his picture.
We looked more closely...
548
00:41:43,628 --> 00:41:46,881
l got in right
on the computer...
549
00:41:47,215 --> 00:41:49,217
...and from what could...
550
00:41:49,300 --> 00:41:51,428
...have looked like
a female figure...
551
00:41:51,469 --> 00:41:55,473
...from a long way away,
up close and tight...
552
00:41:55,557 --> 00:41:59,728
...you could see it was
neither female or Alice.
553
00:42:00,937 --> 00:42:02,272
It was Mathew.
554
00:42:04,941 --> 00:42:06,693
Do you guys believe
in ghosts?
555
00:42:07,610 --> 00:42:09,237
No. No.
556
00:42:11,865 --> 00:42:13,241
This is where I was...
557
00:42:13,283 --> 00:42:15,493
...when the Bob Smeet
photo was taken.
558
00:42:15,577 --> 00:42:17,329
l was wearing Alice's jacket.
559
00:42:18,121 --> 00:42:20,707
l looked up and l saw
a man on the hill...
560
00:42:20,790 --> 00:42:22,876
...who turned out
to be Bob Smeet...
561
00:42:22,959 --> 00:42:26,296
...and l didn't want
to be in the photo.
562
00:42:28,298 --> 00:42:31,134
So, l walked off
through the bush...
563
00:42:31,509 --> 00:42:35,347
...l didn't see there was
also a couple filming...
564
00:42:35,972 --> 00:42:38,099
...who turned out
to be the Withers.
565
00:42:42,020 --> 00:42:45,023
When this came out,
Dad came to me...
566
00:42:45,106 --> 00:42:47,359
...and asked me
if I'd been involved...
567
00:42:47,442 --> 00:42:49,903
...in anything else
and I didn't want to lie.
568
00:42:49,986 --> 00:42:51,905
So, I told him.
569
00:43:00,747 --> 00:43:03,416
I told Dad I was responsible
for the image...
570
00:43:03,458 --> 00:43:06,044
...of Alice in the hallway
and the bedroom...
571
00:43:06,628 --> 00:43:10,298
...and that I created
the April 28th photo...
572
00:43:10,799 --> 00:43:12,425
...and the sะนance image.
573
00:43:13,134 --> 00:43:14,803
I told him what I'd done.
574
00:43:16,304 --> 00:43:17,430
I got two photos.
575
00:43:17,889 --> 00:43:19,933
A photo of Alice
in the backyard...
576
00:43:19,974 --> 00:43:23,269
...and I composited
the images.
577
00:43:23,311 --> 00:43:25,480
That's a photo
l took of Alice.
578
00:43:25,563 --> 00:43:29,776
Mum kept talking about
getting Alice exhumed...
579
00:43:29,859 --> 00:43:32,612
...and she was keen
on this idea...
580
00:43:32,696 --> 00:43:34,739
...of identifying her body.
581
00:43:35,281 --> 00:43:37,534
So, l knew that without
more evidence...
582
00:43:37,617 --> 00:43:40,662
...it wasn't going to happen.
l made the photograph.
583
00:43:45,291 --> 00:43:47,377
I just used
an old video of Alice...
584
00:43:49,504 --> 00:43:52,465
...and I played that
on the T. V.
585
00:43:53,133 --> 00:43:55,176
I had the T. V. up
on the bookcase...
586
00:43:55,260 --> 00:43:57,887
...it was as simple
as rotating the mirror...
587
00:43:59,055 --> 00:44:01,641
...so that the reflection
of the T. V. came up.
588
00:44:01,725 --> 00:44:06,021
The mirror is quite small
so I cropped out the edges...
589
00:44:07,105 --> 00:44:09,691
...and I filmed that.
Same with the kitchen...
590
00:44:09,774 --> 00:44:12,277
...and the bedroom,
what you see is Alice...
591
00:44:12,777 --> 00:44:15,488
...on a television
in a mirror.
592
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:27,709
It wasn't about
trying to trick people.
593
00:44:29,461 --> 00:44:32,005
I guess something
was better than nothing.
594
00:44:32,881 --> 00:44:35,925
Do you think what you did
made it worse for June?
595
00:44:43,683 --> 00:44:44,809
l think that...
596
00:44:46,603 --> 00:44:50,482
Yeah. Yeah, l probably did
make it harder for her...
597
00:44:50,982 --> 00:44:53,485
...but that wasn't
my intention.
598
00:44:56,529 --> 00:45:01,493
l'm not quite so sure
about his reasons.
599
00:45:02,619 --> 00:45:04,371
l don't know that l...
600
00:45:06,414 --> 00:45:07,707
...totally...
601
00:45:11,753 --> 00:45:14,964
l don't want to say l don't
believe what he said...
602
00:45:16,341 --> 00:45:20,470
...I'm just not convinced
that he really knows...
603
00:45:20,512 --> 00:45:21,930
...why he did it.
604
00:45:27,602 --> 00:45:29,020
When it all came out...
605
00:45:29,145 --> 00:45:31,856
...people wanted
to do stories, books...
606
00:45:31,940 --> 00:45:35,318
...women's magazines,
the whole lot.
607
00:45:38,071 --> 00:45:40,824
We just didn't know
how to handle it.
608
00:45:42,158 --> 00:45:44,911
We had to protect Matty,
protect ourselves...
609
00:45:45,996 --> 00:45:47,664
...protect Allie's memory.
610
00:45:47,747 --> 00:45:50,625
We just didn't have
any experience...
611
00:45:50,667 --> 00:45:54,254
...dealing with this interest
in something so personal...
612
00:45:54,337 --> 00:45:56,840
...that people are
making incredibly public.
613
00:45:58,383 --> 00:46:01,344
The Palmers weren't
coping well at all.
614
00:46:02,012 --> 00:46:05,348
Things were very bad.
It was tough.
615
00:46:07,809 --> 00:46:10,687
This was like the end
of hope for all of us...
616
00:46:11,438 --> 00:46:13,106
...but especially for June.
617
00:46:14,733 --> 00:46:17,694
She just really wasn't
ready to let Allie go.
618
00:46:21,531 --> 00:46:24,617
She needed to hang on
to her a bit longer...
619
00:46:26,661 --> 00:46:29,039
...and I don't think
she would admit it...
620
00:46:29,664 --> 00:46:31,833
...but she was devastated.
621
00:46:42,844 --> 00:46:44,387
She's an interesting girl.
622
00:46:44,471 --> 00:46:47,974
She seemed to not get on
with June so well.
623
00:46:48,516 --> 00:46:50,352
l thought they're quite alike.
624
00:46:50,393 --> 00:46:53,730
lt's interesting how the two of
them did not get on so well.
625
00:46:56,399 --> 00:46:59,152
They always seemed
very much alike.
626
00:46:59,194 --> 00:47:03,239
You could see that Alice
took a lot after June.
627
00:47:04,824 --> 00:47:09,162
Also, things got quite clear
after Alice's death...
628
00:47:09,204 --> 00:47:12,957
...perhaps a sense
of deprivation...
629
00:47:13,708 --> 00:47:15,418
...they shared.
630
00:47:16,336 --> 00:47:17,462
Thanks for that.
631
00:47:18,505 --> 00:47:21,299
June was, still is...
632
00:47:22,717 --> 00:47:24,469
...keeps to herself a lot...
633
00:47:24,552 --> 00:47:28,765
...and it became clear
that Alice did that too.
634
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:34,396
The sense of privacy,
the sense of their own life...
635
00:47:35,647 --> 00:47:39,526
...that they'll choose
to share or not.
636
00:47:45,198 --> 00:47:47,534
It's wonderful when
your children come...
637
00:47:47,575 --> 00:47:50,078
...and that new expression
that you have...
638
00:47:51,454 --> 00:47:54,249
...but as a mother
you always have doubts...
639
00:47:55,792 --> 00:47:58,712
...that you're not doing
enough or the right thing.
640
00:48:01,089 --> 00:48:04,759
I can only blame myself.
It comes from me.
641
00:48:05,552 --> 00:48:08,138
It came from my mother.
642
00:48:09,889 --> 00:48:11,808
I've never been able to...
643
00:48:14,686 --> 00:48:17,355
I've never been able
to give myself wholly...
644
00:48:17,814 --> 00:48:20,567
...to June.
645
00:48:22,902 --> 00:48:26,156
I feel June is
a little like that too...
646
00:48:26,906 --> 00:48:30,368
...that she couldn't give
herself wholly to Alice.
647
00:48:38,543 --> 00:48:41,463
I hope Alice did know
how much I loved her.
648
00:48:42,589 --> 00:48:45,675
I guess I held something
back a little as she grew.
649
00:48:48,678 --> 00:48:50,555
That would be
the saddest thing...
650
00:48:50,638 --> 00:48:52,474
...to think
she might not know.
651
00:49:01,941 --> 00:49:05,195
Ray suggested that Mathew
accompany him...
652
00:49:05,236 --> 00:49:08,698
...on one of his country
Victorian tours.
653
00:49:09,199 --> 00:49:11,034
He was doing consultations...
654
00:49:11,785 --> 00:49:14,579
...and Mathew jumped
at the chance.
655
00:49:36,267 --> 00:49:39,229
I think I realized
when I was away...
656
00:49:39,813 --> 00:49:41,481
...how much I missed Alice.
657
00:49:42,399 --> 00:49:46,069
That I was never going
to speak to her again.
658
00:49:47,779 --> 00:49:50,532
I guess that's something
all of Ray's clients...
659
00:49:50,615 --> 00:49:52,409
...are coming to terms with.
660
00:49:52,492 --> 00:49:56,871
They want to talk to someone
or contact someone they lost.
661
00:49:56,913 --> 00:49:59,708
And so did I.
662
00:50:01,418 --> 00:50:05,505
I was one of Ray's clients
in a way as well.
663
00:50:11,344 --> 00:50:12,804
-Is the shot at you?
-No.
664
00:50:12,887 --> 00:50:15,348
-Let's see what happens.
-What do you think?
665
00:50:15,432 --> 00:50:18,143
It's going to hit me
and I'm going to get angry.
666
00:50:18,226 --> 00:50:19,769
That's what'll happen.
No!
667
00:50:20,729 --> 00:50:21,855
Watch yourself.
668
00:50:22,731 --> 00:50:24,482
What are you doing
in my room?
669
00:50:25,317 --> 00:50:26,484
I don't know.
670
00:50:51,176 --> 00:50:53,178
When me and Ray
went on the tour...
671
00:50:53,261 --> 00:50:55,305
...we left the two
rented cameras...
672
00:50:55,388 --> 00:50:57,349
...where they were
in the hallway.
673
00:50:58,016 --> 00:51:01,227
I was sure there was still
something in the house.
674
00:51:02,395 --> 00:51:05,065
Obviously because we were
away for three days...
675
00:51:05,148 --> 00:51:07,859
...we couldn't change
the tapes or anything.
676
00:51:07,942 --> 00:51:10,945
We were probably
going to get...
677
00:51:11,029 --> 00:51:13,239
...about a day and a half
of footage...
678
00:51:13,323 --> 00:51:15,033
...but we left them running.
679
00:51:15,075 --> 00:51:19,079
We got back August 22nd.
680
00:51:19,496 --> 00:51:22,290
At which point,
we checked the tapes.
681
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:49,567
Only Russell and I
were in the house...
682
00:51:49,609 --> 00:51:51,736
...when these images
were recorded.
683
00:51:51,778 --> 00:51:54,406
We couldn't have had
anything to do with them.
684
00:51:56,783 --> 00:52:00,620
They proved there was
a ghost in my house.
685
00:52:01,705 --> 00:52:02,747
Alice's ghost.
686
00:52:11,673 --> 00:52:13,216
Do you believe in ghosts?
687
00:52:15,093 --> 00:52:16,177
Didn't used to.
688
00:52:19,681 --> 00:52:22,684
lt's a hard thing to prove
or disprove.
689
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:28,440
l think...
690
00:52:30,483 --> 00:52:33,028
Yeah, sometimes l think
maybe they do exist.
691
00:52:34,988 --> 00:52:39,200
There are ghosts everywhere.
lt's a scary world.
692
00:52:40,618 --> 00:52:42,620
l don't know why
it's important...
693
00:52:42,662 --> 00:52:45,415
...like, how it helps people
to deal with loss...
694
00:52:45,498 --> 00:52:48,501
...by making up stories
about ghosts or whatever.
695
00:52:53,673 --> 00:52:56,051
It's a real question mark
over everything.
696
00:52:56,134 --> 00:52:58,595
I went back and reviewed
all the footage...
697
00:52:58,636 --> 00:53:00,096
...that had come before.
698
00:53:00,180 --> 00:53:02,557
All the material taken
inside the house...
699
00:53:02,599 --> 00:53:04,267
...following Alice's death.
700
00:53:10,190 --> 00:53:13,026
It was while I watched
Mathew's June 1 3th...
701
00:53:13,109 --> 00:53:17,530
...hallway material again,
that I noticed something.
702
00:53:18,907 --> 00:53:22,035
There was a second figure,
not Matthew in the hallway...
703
00:53:22,118 --> 00:53:24,621
...but someone else,
squatting in the dark...
704
00:53:24,704 --> 00:53:25,955
...in Alice's room.
705
00:53:27,165 --> 00:53:29,167
At first I thought
it was Alice...
706
00:53:30,877 --> 00:53:33,296
...then I realized
it was our neighbor.
707
00:53:34,172 --> 00:53:35,131
Brett Toohey.
708
00:53:43,598 --> 00:53:45,767
What was this man
doing in my house...
709
00:53:46,518 --> 00:53:49,562
...in my daughter's room,
six months after her death?
710
00:53:57,153 --> 00:53:58,989
When I found Alice's safe...
711
00:53:59,072 --> 00:54:01,491
...I realized exactly why
he'd been there.
712
00:54:05,870 --> 00:54:07,622
He was looking for the tape.
713
00:54:10,959 --> 00:54:11,960
That's it.
714
00:54:44,326 --> 00:54:45,785
-Did you smoke?
-Yeah.
715
00:54:46,328 --> 00:54:48,330
Getting nice and cozy
with Alice.
716
00:54:49,122 --> 00:54:53,084
Alice began babysitting
for the Tooheys in 2002...
717
00:54:53,126 --> 00:54:56,254
...and she continued for
the next two and a half years.
718
00:54:56,296 --> 00:54:59,758
The Tooheys boys
were five and nine.
719
00:55:02,344 --> 00:55:06,931
I literally could just
not believe my eyes.
720
00:55:11,728 --> 00:55:14,105
It just made me feel
so sad.
721
00:55:20,445 --> 00:55:21,988
As far as I'm concerned...
722
00:55:22,072 --> 00:55:24,783
...the Tooheys were
complicit in Allie's death.
723
00:55:24,824 --> 00:55:26,951
I believe if it hadn't
been for them...
724
00:55:26,993 --> 00:55:28,787
...she would've reached
out to us.
725
00:55:28,870 --> 00:55:30,413
Wouldn't
have felt guilty.
726
00:55:30,497 --> 00:55:32,832
She wouldn't have felt
the burden of that.
727
00:55:34,459 --> 00:55:36,503
She wouldn't
have been isolated.
728
00:55:40,215 --> 00:55:42,217
How do you feel
towards Brett now?
729
00:55:43,677 --> 00:55:46,221
lf he was around the corner
l'd throttle him.
730
00:55:47,639 --> 00:55:51,601
He seemed like a nice guy.
He was nice.
731
00:55:53,019 --> 00:55:56,856
We'd speak.
He was never mean.
732
00:55:57,941 --> 00:56:00,568
He had a pool
at his place.
733
00:56:00,986 --> 00:56:02,821
We used to swim there
sometimes.
734
00:56:02,904 --> 00:56:03,947
Yeah, in summer.
735
00:56:03,989 --> 00:56:06,366
You could go to his place
and swim there.
736
00:56:07,951 --> 00:56:10,870
I was really bewildered
about what happened.
737
00:56:11,830 --> 00:56:14,165
It took a lot to believe it.
738
00:56:14,207 --> 00:56:17,127
l had no idea
that Alice would...
739
00:56:17,168 --> 00:56:19,087
Be with somebody.
l know.
740
00:56:19,170 --> 00:56:20,880
A complete surprise.
741
00:56:20,964 --> 00:56:24,592
We never thought
she'd do something like that.
742
00:56:28,930 --> 00:56:31,016
Why do you think
Alice had the tape?
743
00:56:33,727 --> 00:56:35,603
She didn't want them
to have it.
744
00:56:36,146 --> 00:56:37,105
Why is that?
745
00:56:37,188 --> 00:56:39,316
Didn't trust them
anymore, l think.
746
00:56:41,443 --> 00:56:44,487
He must've been really
desperate to get the tape.
747
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:47,198
From the moment
they'd heard...
748
00:56:47,282 --> 00:56:50,035
...of Alice's death,
they must've been living...
749
00:56:50,118 --> 00:56:52,370
...in constant fear
of being found out.
750
00:56:56,541 --> 00:56:58,376
l'm glad he couldn't find it.
751
00:56:58,793 --> 00:57:00,670
l'm glad he knows
it's not over.
752
00:57:04,549 --> 00:57:07,719
Had a lot of dealings with the
Palmers during this time...
753
00:57:07,802 --> 00:57:10,680
...as part of the investigating
team trying to locate...
754
00:57:10,722 --> 00:57:12,349
...Brett and Marissa Toohey.
755
00:57:13,641 --> 00:57:15,977
Initially,
we were optimistic...
756
00:57:16,436 --> 00:57:19,898
...that they would be found
and charges laid...
757
00:57:20,649 --> 00:57:24,611
...but unfortunately,
the case dried up...
758
00:57:25,153 --> 00:57:27,322
...so investigation stalled.
759
00:57:28,448 --> 00:57:29,908
The police advised us...
760
00:57:29,991 --> 00:57:32,160
...that even if
the Tooheys were caught...
761
00:57:32,202 --> 00:57:34,412
...they'd get off on
a suspended sentence...
762
00:57:34,496 --> 00:57:36,456
...by claiming the sex
was consensual.
763
00:57:36,873 --> 00:57:40,794
A claim supported
by the video.
764
00:57:41,252 --> 00:57:44,089
Did you know about Alice's
involvement with Brett?
765
00:57:45,173 --> 00:57:47,884
No. No one did.
766
00:57:49,052 --> 00:57:50,970
Obviously l didn't.
767
00:57:52,389 --> 00:57:55,141
We wouldn't have gone out
if l had any idea. No.
768
00:57:56,810 --> 00:58:00,438
l thought we were
pretty good.
769
00:58:11,992 --> 00:58:14,577
It left so many
unanswered questions.
770
00:58:16,037 --> 00:58:17,789
Why was she involved
with him?
771
00:58:18,331 --> 00:58:20,166
When did
the relationship begin?
772
00:58:21,167 --> 00:58:22,627
Was he in love with her?.
773
00:58:25,797 --> 00:58:27,007
I just don't know.
774
00:58:30,927 --> 00:58:33,304
The Tooheys sold
their house and moved...
775
00:58:33,346 --> 00:58:35,181
...six months
after Alice died.
776
00:58:45,317 --> 00:58:46,609
Alice kept secrets.
777
00:58:47,819 --> 00:58:51,489
She kept the fact
she kept secrets a secret.
778
00:58:53,283 --> 00:58:55,785
lt does change the way
you see somebody...
779
00:58:55,869 --> 00:58:59,706
...when you realize they did
hide things from you a bit.
780
00:59:01,499 --> 00:59:06,129
I think I knew one Alice,
her mum knew another...
781
00:59:06,212 --> 00:59:09,466
...and there was another one
that none of us knew.
782
00:59:24,397 --> 00:59:27,692
I found Ray's business card
taped to Alice's diary...
783
00:59:27,734 --> 00:59:30,820
...on the page
marked 1 2th July, 2005.
784
00:59:36,618 --> 00:59:38,495
Why'd you come
to see me, Alice?
785
00:59:38,536 --> 00:59:40,664
Can you interpret dreams?
786
00:59:41,706 --> 00:59:42,832
Sometimes.
787
00:59:43,875 --> 00:59:46,378
How do you feel when
you wake up from them?
788
00:59:51,299 --> 00:59:52,634
They scare me a bit.
789
00:59:52,717 --> 00:59:56,012
Alice came to see me
5 months before she died.
790
00:59:57,055 --> 00:59:59,391
She called me on the radio
a few times...
791
00:59:59,474 --> 01:00:01,643
...and then we made
the appointment.
792
01:00:01,726 --> 01:00:03,812
Take a deep breath,
close your eyes.
793
01:00:03,895 --> 01:00:06,356
Imagine you're standing
outside your house.
794
01:00:06,398 --> 01:00:08,525
Tell me what you see.
795
01:00:17,158 --> 01:00:18,535
-Okay?
-Yeah.
796
01:00:21,204 --> 01:00:23,456
I want you to go inside
the front door.
797
01:00:24,457 --> 01:00:27,043
Go into the house.
Tell me what you see...
798
01:00:27,127 --> 01:00:28,253
...where you are.
799
01:00:28,336 --> 01:00:31,381
Ray, why didn't you tell June
you'd met Alice before?
800
01:00:33,925 --> 01:00:36,094
It was not a case
of hiding something.
801
01:00:36,177 --> 01:00:40,640
I was honoring Alice's
request for confidentiality...
802
01:00:41,099 --> 01:00:44,060
...but it was damned if you do,
damned if you don't.
803
01:00:44,686 --> 01:00:48,315
The living room
is straight ahead.
804
01:00:48,732 --> 01:00:50,358
Then you go to the right...
805
01:00:50,942 --> 01:00:53,737
...and my room is in
the back part of the house...
806
01:00:53,820 --> 01:00:55,739
...as you go
towards the kitchen.
807
01:00:56,740 --> 01:00:59,159
Do you see anything
unusual or different?
808
01:01:03,121 --> 01:01:04,080
No.
809
01:01:04,748 --> 01:01:07,459
No, we didn't feel
we could trust Ray anymore...
810
01:01:08,293 --> 01:01:10,545
...for whatever reasons
he may've had...
811
01:01:10,628 --> 01:01:13,006
...of keeping that
information to himself.
812
01:01:13,089 --> 01:01:14,883
lt still felt like a betrayal.
813
01:01:20,305 --> 01:01:22,390
I wanted to help June
and the family.
814
01:01:22,474 --> 01:01:24,517
I think they wanted me
to help them.
815
01:01:25,185 --> 01:01:28,021
I wouldn't have been able
to do it had they known.
816
01:01:29,564 --> 01:01:31,358
There was a bit of resentment.
817
01:01:31,399 --> 01:01:33,360
Mathew wouldn't
even speak to me.
818
01:01:34,110 --> 01:01:36,488
What l think hurt them
more than anything...
819
01:01:36,571 --> 01:01:38,740
...was what they saw
as my failure...
820
01:01:38,823 --> 01:01:41,409
...to see Alice's
imminent passing.
821
01:01:42,369 --> 01:01:45,080
Looking back,
it's kind of strange...
822
01:01:45,163 --> 01:01:50,043
...that someone would be
as close to us as he was.
823
01:01:52,587 --> 01:01:55,632
I think he needed us
as much as we needed him.
824
01:02:08,895 --> 01:02:11,356
Alice came to see me
because she was upset.
825
01:02:12,565 --> 01:02:15,235
She was a very
troubled person.
826
01:02:17,737 --> 01:02:19,447
''I had a dream last night.
827
01:02:19,531 --> 01:02:22,659
I was cold and wet.
I felt heavy...
828
01:02:22,742 --> 01:02:24,494
...like I'd been drugged.
829
01:02:24,577 --> 01:02:28,081
When I woke up,
the sensations didn't go.
830
01:02:28,832 --> 01:02:31,584
I was feeling sick
and confused...
831
01:02:31,918 --> 01:02:34,796
...and I was starting
to get scared.
832
01:02:36,297 --> 01:02:38,717
I needed to see Mum,
to talk to her.
833
01:02:39,926 --> 01:02:43,054
I stumbled to her room
and as I stood there...
834
01:02:43,096 --> 01:02:45,098
...over the bed
watching them...
835
01:02:45,140 --> 01:02:48,476
...I was overcome
with this intense sadness.
836
01:02:49,311 --> 01:02:51,396
Then the sadness turned
to fear.
837
01:02:51,479 --> 01:02:53,982
l just stood there
paralyzed with fear...
838
01:02:54,065 --> 01:02:57,861
...and l saw there's nothing
that they could do for me.
839
01:02:58,695 --> 01:03:01,031
l'd never felt
so utterly alone.
840
01:03:01,906 --> 01:03:04,743
Everything felt wrong.
My body...
841
01:03:06,995 --> 01:03:10,206
...the way things looked,
then l realized...
842
01:03:10,248 --> 01:03:12,459
...there was something
wrong with me.
843
01:03:14,753 --> 01:03:18,131
I started to cry,
standing there at the bed. ''
844
01:03:49,954 --> 01:03:53,166
Lake Mungo is in Southwestern,
New South Wales...
845
01:03:53,249 --> 01:03:56,044
...and that was the location
of the school camp...
846
01:03:56,127 --> 01:04:00,548
...that Alice went on from
August 2nd to 5th, 2005.
847
01:04:04,344 --> 01:04:05,637
When she came home...
848
01:04:05,720 --> 01:04:07,681
...she said she'd had
a good time.
849
01:04:07,764 --> 01:04:09,391
I particularly remember it.
850
01:04:09,432 --> 01:04:12,268
She came home without
her mobile phone...
851
01:04:12,894 --> 01:04:15,480
...which we'd bought her
a month previously...
852
01:04:15,563 --> 01:04:18,233
...and her favorite
bracelet and watch.
853
01:04:21,069 --> 01:04:23,029
Other than that,
you know...
854
01:04:23,446 --> 01:04:26,074
...she didn't really talk
about it much.
855
01:04:27,784 --> 01:04:28,743
Wait up, guys!
856
01:04:36,292 --> 01:04:38,586
Kate didn't show me
until a year after...
857
01:04:38,670 --> 01:04:41,423
...she got back from camp
the stuff she'd taken.
858
01:04:41,464 --> 01:04:43,383
Why did you decide
to tell June?
859
01:04:45,927 --> 01:04:48,013
lf we didn't tell June...
860
01:04:48,096 --> 01:04:50,348
...it'd be like we were
hiding something.
861
01:04:50,432 --> 01:04:51,891
So, l don't know why.
862
01:04:54,769 --> 01:04:56,313
l don't know why but...
863
01:04:57,439 --> 01:04:58,398
...why not?
864
01:05:04,612 --> 01:05:06,906
Jason told us about
the film footage...
865
01:05:06,948 --> 01:05:09,492
...that the girls had
taken at Lake Mungo.
866
01:05:17,625 --> 01:05:20,628
The girls were looking
so happy...
867
01:05:21,588 --> 01:05:24,174
...but she looked
quite forlorn.
868
01:05:24,257 --> 01:05:25,550
I was worried.
869
01:05:26,176 --> 01:05:29,137
l was convinced that something
had happened to her.
870
01:05:37,562 --> 01:05:40,690
Kate's phone footage
was taken later that night...
871
01:05:40,774 --> 01:05:42,901
...once the girls had
spread out.
872
01:05:42,984 --> 01:05:44,819
Anytime. Anywhere.
873
01:05:46,988 --> 01:05:50,659
It's like Africa.
Like the desert.
874
01:05:51,785 --> 01:05:53,912
There was an image
of Alice...
875
01:05:53,995 --> 01:05:57,040
...very hard to decipher
at the bottom of the frame...
876
01:05:57,123 --> 01:05:58,667
...kneeling under a tree.
877
01:06:00,627 --> 01:06:03,463
It was only after viewing
the clip several times...
878
01:06:03,546 --> 01:06:05,799
...that we realized
what she was doing.
879
01:06:05,882 --> 01:06:07,801
She was burying something.
880
01:06:11,471 --> 01:06:13,598
Did you know what
would've happened...
881
01:06:13,682 --> 01:06:15,266
...that night with Alice?
882
01:06:15,308 --> 01:06:16,309
No.
883
01:06:18,019 --> 01:06:19,771
l knew she'd lost her phone.
884
01:06:21,439 --> 01:06:23,108
l knew she was upset...
885
01:06:23,817 --> 01:06:25,944
...because that was
pretty obvious...
886
01:06:25,986 --> 01:06:28,279
...but l didn't know
why she was upset.
887
01:06:29,364 --> 01:06:31,741
She didn't say that
she'd seen anything...
888
01:06:31,825 --> 01:06:34,077
...she didn't really say
anything to me.
889
01:06:34,160 --> 01:06:37,247
I didn't really take it
that seriously at the time.
890
01:06:38,331 --> 01:06:39,958
lt was like context.
891
01:06:40,041 --> 01:06:42,293
We were just having
a good time...
892
01:06:42,377 --> 01:06:44,796
...and l just thought
she got a bit upset.
893
01:06:56,391 --> 01:07:02,147
It started simply enough.
Alice left the group...
894
01:07:02,188 --> 01:07:05,191
...and started walking off
by herself...
895
01:07:07,193 --> 01:07:10,280
...but it was obviously,
something was distressing her.
896
01:07:12,157 --> 01:07:14,534
We wanted to try
and find out what it was.
897
01:07:32,177 --> 01:07:34,054
We understood
from the footage...
898
01:07:34,137 --> 01:07:36,014
...that she had
buried something.
899
01:07:36,097 --> 01:07:38,224
We had no idea
where that tree was...
900
01:07:38,308 --> 01:07:41,686
...because of what
we could see in the video.
901
01:07:43,980 --> 01:07:46,691
We didn't really wanna
go down during the day...
902
01:07:46,775 --> 01:07:49,152
...because we didn't want
to be digging...
903
01:07:49,903 --> 01:07:52,238
...where tourists were.
904
01:07:54,366 --> 01:07:56,242
We decided to go at night.
905
01:08:14,135 --> 01:08:17,806
June and I started digging
and after a bit...
906
01:08:19,516 --> 01:08:21,601
...June said she'd found
something...
907
01:08:21,685 --> 01:08:23,520
...and pulled out
a plastic bag.
908
01:08:23,603 --> 01:08:26,272
Inside the plastic bag
there was...
909
01:08:27,232 --> 01:08:30,276
...Allie's favorite necklace,
her ring, her watch...
910
01:08:30,360 --> 01:08:31,778
...her mobile phone.
911
01:08:33,530 --> 01:08:35,824
Her most precious things...
912
01:08:36,866 --> 01:08:39,369
...buried out here
on a school camp.
913
01:08:40,161 --> 01:08:42,038
We didn't know
why she did that.
914
01:08:42,914 --> 01:08:45,917
We knew from the video
that she'd buried something...
915
01:08:46,459 --> 01:08:48,461
...but we didn't know
what it was.
916
01:08:50,463 --> 01:08:52,007
lt was low on battery.
917
01:09:11,818 --> 01:09:13,236
You scared of dying?
918
01:09:15,280 --> 01:09:17,365
Yeah, of course
I'm scared of dying.
919
01:09:17,449 --> 01:09:19,534
Isn't everyone
scared of dying?
920
01:09:25,582 --> 01:09:28,585
Would you like to tell me
what happens in the dreams?
921
01:09:31,671 --> 01:09:35,342
I feel like something bad
is gonna happen to me.
922
01:09:36,718 --> 01:09:39,012
I feel like something bad
has happened.
923
01:09:40,180 --> 01:09:42,807
It hasn't reached me yet
but it's on its way.
924
01:09:46,227 --> 01:09:48,063
And it's getting closer...
925
01:09:49,814 --> 01:09:51,691
...and I don't feel ready.
926
01:09:51,733 --> 01:09:54,986
I feel like
I can't do anything.
927
01:10:08,833 --> 01:10:13,338
At some point,
this figure came towards her...
928
01:10:13,421 --> 01:10:15,340
...from out of the darkness.
929
01:10:15,840 --> 01:10:18,301
I recognized the face
as soon as I saw it...
930
01:10:18,385 --> 01:10:21,012
...on the phone video.
It was the same face...
931
01:10:21,096 --> 01:10:24,182
...of the body I had
identified at the dam.
932
01:10:25,558 --> 01:10:28,311
It was Allie's body.
Allie's face.
933
01:10:36,277 --> 01:10:41,241
There's absolutely
no rational explanation...
934
01:10:41,783 --> 01:10:46,162
...for what she saw
on that phone.
935
01:11:24,492 --> 01:11:25,994
Oh, my God!
It's raining!
936
01:11:44,262 --> 01:11:49,225
I'm convinced Alice knew
she was going to die.
937
01:11:50,101 --> 01:11:51,519
I'm convinced of that.
938
01:11:54,689 --> 01:11:57,192
I think the figure
at Lake Mungo...
939
01:11:57,275 --> 01:11:58,985
...was an omen for her.
940
01:11:59,402 --> 01:12:04,115
The burial of her possessions
was symbolic...
941
01:12:04,199 --> 01:12:05,450
...it was a ritual.
942
01:12:09,829 --> 01:12:12,832
I was never convinced
that Allie knew she'd die.
943
01:12:13,583 --> 01:12:16,378
She had morbid thoughts,
sure, but who doesn't?
944
01:12:17,420 --> 01:12:20,340
She had nightmares
that upset her...
945
01:12:20,382 --> 01:12:21,966
...enough to consult Ray.
946
01:12:26,137 --> 01:12:28,848
l don't know that anybody
is really convinced...
947
01:12:28,890 --> 01:12:30,684
...that they're going to die.
948
01:12:33,645 --> 01:12:35,647
What about the image
of Lake Mungo?
949
01:12:35,730 --> 01:12:38,358
How do you think Alice
would've explained that?
950
01:12:38,441 --> 01:12:40,568
How could she have
explained it?
951
01:12:47,033 --> 01:12:48,910
l think Allie saw a ghost...
952
01:12:50,787 --> 01:12:53,540
...but she wasn't to know
it was her own.
953
01:12:54,666 --> 01:12:56,543
l believe she recorded
a ghost.
954
01:12:56,584 --> 01:13:00,672
l believe she recorded
the future coming to get her.
955
01:13:18,398 --> 01:13:20,483
We found out
about the Tooheys...
956
01:13:21,276 --> 01:13:23,987
...Ray and what had
happened at Lake Mungo...
957
01:13:25,322 --> 01:13:28,366
...and by the time
we returned home...
958
01:13:30,035 --> 01:13:31,703
...the house felt different.
959
01:13:31,786 --> 01:13:35,582
lt was calm.
960
01:13:44,799 --> 01:13:48,053
I think Alice...
961
01:13:48,094 --> 01:13:50,847
...wanted us to know
more about her.
962
01:13:50,930 --> 01:13:54,851
She wanted us to know
who she really was...
963
01:13:56,436 --> 01:14:00,732
...before she, you know,
before she could leave.
964
01:14:08,281 --> 01:14:10,700
In the weeks and months
after Lake Mungo...
965
01:14:10,742 --> 01:14:13,870
...we started to feel
like a family again.
966
01:14:15,747 --> 01:14:17,707
It just crept up
on us, really...
967
01:14:17,749 --> 01:14:21,336
...we were a bit wobbly...
968
01:14:21,419 --> 01:14:23,254
...but a family all the same.
969
01:14:32,263 --> 01:14:34,516
-Hello there.
-Russell, nice to see you.
970
01:14:34,599 --> 01:14:35,684
You too. Come in.
971
01:14:35,767 --> 01:14:37,435
Ray called out
of the blue...
972
01:14:37,519 --> 01:14:39,896
...and said he'd be
coming through town...
973
01:14:39,938 --> 01:14:43,483
...and asked if it was
alright if he could visit.
974
01:14:44,734 --> 01:14:48,655
Six months had gone by
and I just felt...
975
01:14:48,738 --> 01:14:52,701
...under the circumstances,
it couldn't do any harm.
976
01:14:57,831 --> 01:15:00,875
I think we all felt
better after Mungo.
977
01:15:01,543 --> 01:15:05,213
In a way,
it had been closure.
978
01:15:05,839 --> 01:15:08,341
For each of us
it was different.
979
01:15:09,342 --> 01:15:11,720
We made our own peace.
980
01:15:18,351 --> 01:15:19,936
It seemed strange to me...
981
01:15:20,270 --> 01:15:22,814
...that Allie should
withdraw so abruptly...
982
01:15:23,440 --> 01:15:27,652
...and we didn't help her,
we didn't change anything...
983
01:15:28,653 --> 01:15:33,742
...I think we collectively made
a decision to move forward.
984
01:15:36,786 --> 01:15:41,666
Moving was a big part of it.
Starting all over.
985
01:16:00,602 --> 01:16:02,896
It will be difficult
to leave the house.
986
01:16:04,606 --> 01:16:07,525
Sometimes, you know,
l just forget that...
987
01:16:08,860 --> 01:16:13,114
...she's not coming back.
988
01:16:14,658 --> 01:16:15,867
l forget.
989
01:16:46,815 --> 01:16:49,359
Okay, close your eyes.
990
01:16:51,611 --> 01:16:54,447
Imagine that you're standing
outside the house.
991
01:16:56,741 --> 01:16:57,742
Can you see it?
992
01:17:02,622 --> 01:17:04,290
Go inside the house.
993
01:17:07,252 --> 01:17:09,212
I'm going through
the front door.
994
01:17:16,261 --> 01:17:19,014
I'm walking down the hall
towards Alice's room.
995
01:17:25,353 --> 01:17:26,896
Someone's there.
996
01:17:27,856 --> 01:17:30,108
I think someone's coming
down the hall.
997
01:17:30,150 --> 01:17:31,693
The door is open.
998
01:17:34,154 --> 01:17:35,697
Do you know who it is?
999
01:17:48,251 --> 01:17:49,627
Do you wanna go inside?
1000
01:17:51,212 --> 01:17:52,172
Yeah.
1001
01:17:54,466 --> 01:17:55,467
Okay.
1002
01:18:06,561 --> 01:18:07,604
What do you see?
1003
01:18:08,688 --> 01:18:09,981
It's my mum.
1004
01:18:11,983 --> 01:18:13,485
What's she saying?
1005
01:18:14,319 --> 01:18:17,280
She's not saying anything.
1006
01:18:23,953 --> 01:18:26,122
l don't think she knows
l'm there.
1007
01:18:30,335 --> 01:18:32,087
Alice isn't here.
1008
01:18:33,630 --> 01:18:34,881
She's not here.
1009
01:18:36,925 --> 01:18:38,426
What's happening, Alice?
1010
01:18:40,053 --> 01:18:42,430
You talking to her?
ls she talking to you?
1011
01:18:42,472 --> 01:18:43,932
No, she's going now.
1012
01:18:46,226 --> 01:18:47,686
She's leaving the room.
1013
01:18:51,064 --> 01:18:52,315
She's gone.
1014
01:18:53,191 --> 01:18:54,484
Open your eyes.
1015
01:19:49,039 --> 01:19:50,790
She's going now.
1016
01:19:53,084 --> 01:19:54,544
She's leaving the room.
1017
01:20:24,949 --> 01:20:26,034
She's gone.
1018
01:21:08,535 --> 01:21:11,997
Happy birthday to you.
Happy birthday to you.
1019
01:21:12,789 --> 01:21:16,710
Happy birthday,
dear Mathew!
74501
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