All language subtitles for On.The.Trail.of.UFOs.S01E04.The.Tricksters.1080p.WEB-DL.DDP2.0.H.264-squalor_track3_[eng]

(Haunting music)

- And the tree line
would have come

all the way up
here back then or?

- No no, that's like
when they got here,

they're out in the
field and their like,

"no I was here and
this is where it was."

And then yeah, the craft
emerged from out when they all

got back here from out back
there behind that tree line.

- Okay, wow.

- I mean it emerged.

- They just saw red light
coming from behind the trees?

- At first and then,
yeah at closest

they were about a
hundred feet from it.

It was about a hundred
feet off the ground.

The landscape does
actually drop down back there.

In theory if there was a
big craft it could hide there.

(Haunting music)

- The big event was
called the incident at exeter

and the incident at exeter
really became known to people

far and wide after John
Fuller's book came out.

And it brought into fame
and under the spotlight

several figures, one
was Norman muscarello,

who was as a kid
going into the Navy

at 18 years old back
in the fall of 1965.

And he was down
visiting his girlfriend's.

- Norman muscarello was
hitchhiking home from his

girlfriend's house in
amesbury and as he got to this

farm this large
red object kind of

swooped at him out of the sky.

He was terrified and
dove behind a stone wall.

- Because it came
out of red glow

with alternating blinking
lights back and forth

and it literally terrified him.

He was not somebody
who got scared that easy.

- Well he was lying in this
ditch behind to stone wall,

the object made a few
more passes over him.

Then when he thought
it was safe to get up

he ran to the
neighboring farm house

and pounded on the door.

This was like at
1:00 in the morning

and they're like we
don't care what's going on

we're not opening
the door for this.

- And began walking
toward exeter and hitchhiking

and a car came by that
did eventually pick him up.

He gets to the police
station and he was shaking,

a nervous wreck, could
hardly light his cigarette.

Officer Reginald Toland
was on duty at the desk.

- And he knew Norman
from around town,

he knew he was a good kid.

He could tell he
was visibly shaken,

he knew something had happened

but it couldn't be what
he was describing.

I mean that just didn't
make any sense to him.

It was about this time
that officer bertrand

walked into the station
and heard the story,

and he was really
intrigued by it because

he had just, about an
hour early on route 101,

found a stopped car with two
women in it who where frantic.

When he approached the car
and asked what was going on

they reported they
were chased for

about 12 miles
by a large red ufo.

- So when the
muscarello report came in

it kind of resonated with him.

Officer bertrand thought, I
think I'll pick up muscarello,

we'll go back out to the site.

So he picked up
the shaking white

petrified young muscarello,
they went out there.

- They got out of the
car, they get into the field,

they're not seeing anything.

- There was really
nothing to be seen

and then all of a sudden
from behind the tree line

the manifestation of an
object that was glowing red

rolls up out of behind the
pine trees and it moved forward

and started to come over
the policeman and muscarello.

- So muscarello froze in panic,
bertrand dragged muscarello

back to the cruiser and
they called for backup.

Officer hunt was
already on his way.

Hunt could see the object as
he was pulling up to the scene.

- David hunt arrived
as it was just starting

to bip to head off
towards Hampton beach,

where you guys are
staying, over in that area.

And the light was a blood
red, was on both houses,

farm houses on
either side like that.

- They all noted that
the lights on it all blinked

in the same pattern,
like one, two, three, four,

four, three, two, one.

They said at the
closest it was probably

about hundred feet from them,

a hundred feet off the ground
and about the size of a house.

(Intense music)

(Dramatic music)

(Haunting music)

- The exeter incident
is, on the surface,

just another ufo sighting.

The most intriguing
aspect of the event seems

to be the number of witnesses
involved, as well as the

amount of the time
object stayed on the scene.

Like Dan weiss's sighting,
the fact that these crafts

seem to hover in the air
with lights flashing flies

in the face of what we
would expect from visitors

from another galaxy attempting
to simply observe humanity.

Ufos have supposedly been
visiting us for centuries now.

But we still have no
idea what their origins are.

But that hasn't stopped
researchers, investigators,

and television theorists
from staking their claim

to a multitude of ideas as to
where the uaps are coming from

and yet, it all
really boils down

to just a small
handful of core ideas.

Martin howata, or molava,

is a tribal elder who
lives near rimrock Arizona

who can set the stage
for the centuries of beliefs

relating to the possible
root of the uap mystery.

During our discussion
we were instructed

to leave the name of molava's
tribe out of the interview.

And also to refer to him
as a native American.

It's important to remember
that simply boiling

down a belief system
like of molava's people

into one core
principle is impossible.

His people have distilled
centuries of stories

regarding the past and
future of mankind into a series

of sacred objects that no
one outside of molava's people,

and a few trusted friends,
have ever even seen before.

The objects help to tell
the tale of the star people,

who according to his ancestors,

have been visiting earth
since the beginning of time

in an effort to save
us from ourselves.

- I have to put it in a way that

I have to protect my people.

Okay so I'll tell you
some of these things,

and I'll show you
some of the things.

I really only showed
a few people.

This is the star people.

They're not of this,
they're not from here,

they're from a different place.

So what they would do
they would look for these xs

on different planets
and different worlds

and different
places on our earth.

That's why if you look
really close to this he's

sitting on some type
of, it looks like a triangle.

A black triangle down here.

This over here in the
corner means infinity.

Like outer space where
it doesn't ever end.

And then behind him is a
giant star where he comes from

and over here is the moon,

and this is earth, this
is like his space ship.

But it doesn't look like this,

this what they made
to tell you the story.

So all these stories
are part of all this

and there's a lot more
that goes to that, to this.

This is the bottom
where he takes off.

This is clouds, this
doll is not Mayan.

But the headdress is Mayan

because they're
descendants of who we are.

These star beams
here, this is their portal

that they can go
from one to another.

- While malava's
beliefs relating to ufos

crossed the spiritual
with the otherworldly,

in ufo circles the
extraterrestrial hypothesis

is the most commonly
accepted idea as to who is piloting

those unknown objects
seen around the world.

- Because the ufo
phenomenon is so widespread

and hits a diversity of people,

and because we don't really
know what is responsible for

the sightings there is a
whole breath of possibilities

and theories for
what is actually a ufo

or what's behind ufo
or what's piloting a ufo.

- I think for the most part
most people probably fall

into the nuts and bolts,
or classic et theory,

where it's the little
green men sort of thing.

- Extraterrestrials, which are
beings from another planet,

another solar system,
another galaxy that are coming

into ours and
they have a variety

of different agenda
along with that.

- And that's
speaking broadly for

the general population as well,

I think people are more
susceptible to kind of look

at that part of the ufo world

and that's where
most people start out,

and then either
move into other areas

or really entrench themselves,
or become skeptics.

- The theories range from
everything from simply earth like,

unexplained naturally
occurring phenomena,

all the way to the point of
them being identified as craft

or spaceships from
other worlds being piloted

by extraterrestrial entities.

- Some people like
to isolate that and say,

"oh these are
physical craft that

"come here from another planet."

- The more conservative
kind of feel like they're probes

that are unmanned that are
coming here to check us out.

Others feel maybe they are
manned probes that are doing

the same thing, which is
probably what we would do

if we found a planet
that was inhabited.

We'd want to try to discreetly
observe what they were up to.

- One of my favorite cases
actually happened in New Jersey,

here on the east coast,
and it was a witness

by the name of George o'barsky.

This was back in 1975
and he was coming home,

it was 3:00 in the morning,

he'd just closed up his shop.

He was going down
the New Jersey turnpike

and he saw what he described
as a puffed up pancake

in the air, metallic
and illuminated.

And it was just
hovering over this park.

He pulled over and he gets out

and he's looking at this
floating metallic pancake

and he sees two small
beings beneath the craft

and they're kind of hunched over

and he doesn't know what
they're doing so he gets closer.

And he said that
these beings had what

he described as snowsuits on,

if they were aliens they
definitely were prepared.

They were digging into
the ground and putting dirt

into these little
beakers and canisters,

and he gets closer and closer.

And he thinks
that they heard him

and these little
snow suited beings,

they scamper
back into this craft

and it just disappeared
out of sight.

So he gets in his
car, he drives home.

Did they leave something behind

they were coming back to get?

Or do they just
want to know what

this stuff is below their feet?

- Why is the initial assumption
that these are alien craft?

- It's something that,

okay well military doesn't
have an explanation.

There's a whole
bunch of these things,

where did they come from?

And I think that sadly people
often default to the negative,

so when something
like that happens

a lot of times there's
an assumption,

oh this has got to be
something really bad.

It's got to be
something really sinister.

What could be worse
than aliens dropping in?

So it melded into the culture

and we get this whole trend
towards outer space beings.

Now I should say that there

are problems with
that, obviously.

There are problems in
fact with all of these theories

and that's part of the mystery
that we're trying to solve.

- Sam sheeran is a celebrated
artist and an old friend.

Like Brian sprag, Sam
and I go back to the earliest

days of my show into the
fray when he used to cohost.

One of the events that
furthered his interest

in unusual subjects was
an encounter he had with

a ufo in the skies
above Los Angeles.

An incident that helped
cement his own personal opinion

on where uaps
might be originating.

- So it was Halloween
season 2012 in Los Angeles,

Hollywood specifically,

and I was staying with
a friend at his apartment.

We decided to step outside

and have a cigarette
off the balcony.

We're quite familiar with la,

you see helicopters,
you see airplanes coming

from lax and Burbank
airport so you're really familiar,

or we were, of
what flies around la.

It's not unusual
to see helicopters

and beams of light
and things like that.

I don't even think
we'd lit cigarettes.

My friend says,
"what the f is that?"

And we looked and
sure enough there's this

formation of
lights in a v shape,

your typical classic,
you hear it all the time,

the black triangle thing.

But this was just lights,
they weren't flashing,

they were kind of
shimmering, twinkling.

This thing was maybe the
size of a commercial airplane,

maybe a 747, but way way high up

and the lights were
so dim on it, all white,

that if you looked away
and looked at the stars,

the stars were brighter.

If you looked away you'd lose it

and it was cruising
really really slowly.

No sound, no contrail, nothing.

And we watched it
until it disappeared,

it literally went over the
Hollywood Hills and away.

- You think it was
something that we make here

or is it something off planet?

- I've thought long
and hard about

what this could have been,
I've never seen anything

anywhere else that
that was similar to.

This is something that can
not only stand stationary,

or fly stationary
rather, in the air.

It's silent, it doesn't
have any emissions.

It doesn't seem to have
an actual structure to it.

It's just a formation of lights

so that really makes
me lean towards

maybe it's a visitor,
maybe it's a scientist

from another world on a
reconnaissance mission.

- I think a lot of modern
sightings are just misidentified

and actually throughout
history people have

a real ignorance of
what's in the night sky.

But for a least a hundred
years I think there is

credible evidence that
there are nuts and bolts craft

from places with
technology that is not human.

And do I want to say it's alien?

I guess I have to when you
eliminate everything else.

- During the earliest
days of flying saucer mania

there was almost
cult like phantasm

that grew up around
ufos and their occupants.

While most sightings revolved
around distance observations

of strange lights or craft,

there were a occasional
encounters with their pilots.

During the late
'50s and into the '70s

a movement grew
up around the idea of

extraterrestrials as a
sort of savior of humanity.

With many of those claiming
contact with the aliens,

gaining an almost prophet like

reputation amongst
their followers.

While this is an often
overlooked period of ufo history

a lot of the information
gleaned from contactees

is still part of
the subject today.

It wasn't until
investigators like John keel

began discussing
the idea of the "others"

being dimensional
travelers that people began

to consider other possibilities.

- There's even groups
that believe extraterrestrials

are not necessarily
from outer space.

There's a lot of this
multi-dimensional theories

being thrown around
that these are actually

overlapping worlds, there's
flap areas perhaps where

there's high amounts of other
paranormal activity going on.

So I think it's interesting
that it's taking a little

bit of that turn cause
some people are starting

to get more into that train,
where they're not from space,

they're from just another world.

They could be us
in a parallel universe.

- Ultra-terrestrials are
people who are coming form

an alternate dimension
other than our own

that stand alongside
ours and the barrier

between the two dimensions
gets a little wonky or weak

and that allows a pass
through between the two.

Or that the aircraft is
just so advanced that it's

able to pass through
between that barrier

and create a window
between the two dimensions.

- I think John keel's place
in the whole speculation

around unidentified
things in the sky,

his contribution to that
was the idea of there being

a cosmic trickster
behind the scenes.

I believe he coined
the term ultra-terrestrial

to indicate there was a
force or a personal presence

operating on a spiritual level

that we typically couldn't see.

This being or beings
would from time to time

come into our reality,
mostly for the purpose of

just messing with us for
reasons of amusement

that it seemed to
derive from this activity.

- Where you personally
fall in your own theorizing

or beliefs about what is at
the heart of the ufo mystery?

- The tricksters are
excellent at mimicking

and playing tricks
and trying to fool us.

I think it's extreme
irony that we think

we're the only people
in the entire universe.

- More and more when
i'm talking to scientists

who believe that there's
something to the ufo phenomena,

they are more apt to
believe that these could be

something from alternate
universes or other dimensions.

You hear a lot in science
about multiple dimensions

and things like this that
mathematically the science

shows that this is possible.

- I think there's been a move
in relatively recent decades

to explain ufos in an
inter dimensional way,

to sort of take some of the
concepts of modern physics

as their popularly understood
and use that as a way of

transporting something
across vast spaces and times.

My favorite quite
honestly that these craft

are something that
are traveling through

dimensional borders
from other universes.

I find that one personally
very compelling

because of where string
theory and quantum physics

has brought us today
with this concept that,

oh yeah there are other
dimensions of existence,

we don't know how to get
there but we know they're there.

- It would account
not just for ufos

but also other
paranormal phenomenon.

Such as other creatures or
maybe even ghosts that maybe

somehow are part of an
existence in some other dimension.

So those scientists
entertain this idea

and think of this as a theory

that would fit other
paranormal phenomenon.

- The idea of wormholes
or things of that nature,

portals if you will, has the
benefit of being a convenient

imaginative response
to the question of

how do you get a
craft or a ship from

one place to another
across vast distances.

It also has the benefit of

not being provable
or disprovable.

- The sheer bizarre nature
of some reports is what has

influenced some of today's
investigators to look beyond

outer space for answers
as to the origins of uaps.

Cases like those often
reported in locations like

the Chestnut Ridge,
skinwalker ranch or sedona

seem to defy what logic
would dictate if we are in

fact dealing with a
visitor from the stars.

Many investigators find their
perception of this subject in

general shifting drastically
the further they get into their

tenure due to the strangeness
of the reports they take.

These cases often leave
them asking far more question

than they had going in and
occasionally can cause them

to change their
personal opinions

on the origin of the
phenomenon entirely.

- What's another case that
sort of stands out to you?

- Oh there's some fun ones.

There was a case
in northern Utah

of two boys that are
watching TV late at night,

this was in 1972
I believe it was.

They were watching
their favorite show

and all of sudden they're
looking at what looks

to be like a science
fiction movie.

Instead of a movie the
characters in the movie

are looking at them like,
"what are you guys doing?"

So they reached
up to touch the knob

and a big spark
jumped out of the TV set

and knocked him on his keister.

So he's wondering
what's going on now.

These creatures, whoever's
inside the TV looking at him,

wondering what's going on here

cause they didn't
expect it either.

So then the TV goes
out, they run outside

and there's a big ufo
right over their house.

- Why do you think
the ufos appear?

- I don't know.

We may be some
science class experiment.

They may be here for
a multiplicity of reasons.

- The idea that there
are other realities

that are typically unseen
by us but that occasionally

touch our reality is
actually quite ancient.

Writings such as
the Bible for example

do describe a world
beyond our own

that does interact with ours.

It doesn't necessarily use the
language of inter dimensional

but it does use the
language of heaven and earth,

or principalities and powers,

that's interpreted
in different ways

but can certainly I
think be understood

in light of inter
dimensional or portals.

So that this idea has
actually been around

as long as there's
been recorded history.

- What if the ufos aren't
coming from above

or an alternate dimension?

One of the most popular
theories is that ufos are simply us.

But what does that mean exactly?

In same ways debunkers
would fall into this category

as the typical assumption
amongst the skeptical community

when it comes to a ufo
sighting is that it's either,

a, known aircraft being
simply misidentified.

Or b, a hoax perpetrated by

an attention starved
human being.

But there are other angles
to this particular hypothesis.

- Of course the most
conservative theory is

that they are Russian
or Chinese technology,

or even black projects
that we're not aware of.

- Sometimes you hear
about a more terrestrial theory,

where it's human beings,
particularly the United States

governments or other
governments like Russia or China,

who have developed
advanced aircraft

that they are testing
in our airspace.

- And that's another
possibility that the hard part

for that one is that we've
been seeing this technology

demonstrated for a long time.

For instance in world
war ii when we're

flying propellor planes
they're seeing these

balls of light zipping
around all over.

That's technology
certainly that was beyond

what we have now
let alone back then.

- Then you have people who say,

"well flying saucers really
are ships that have time travel

"and they're us from
the future coming back

"to try and save humanity."

Some people believe
the little alien grays

are what humans
eventually will evolve into

and they're coming back in order

to try to save the
future so to speak.

- Well everyone has a
theory as to the origins of ufos

the best source of information

tends to be the
eyewitnesses themselves.

People like Shawn Kevin
Jason and Sam sherran

have seen similar yet
unidentifiable craft in the sky

and both have disparate theories

about what may have
been piloting them.

It makes me wonder, if
there is an aspect of theorizing

about where these things
are coming from that acts as

a sort of coping mechanism
for dealing with a phenomenon

that we might never have
any greater understanding of.

After all if we can at least
catalog a sighting as merely

secret government craft or
aliens from outer space then

we've already answered a
number of the questions we might

have otherwise spent
the rest of our lives asking.

- I actually had a sighting
when I was 12 years old.

My origin story.

It was in 1995, it
was the summer

and I was fishing off
the Saint Lawrence river,

and I was with my parents,
they were inside our motel.

We were staying at a motel.

The dock was
right off of our motel

and it was turning dark.

As I'm reeling my line in I
saw these lights in the water

and I thought something
was under the water.

So I literally got down,
put my face in the water

and then I realized
it was a reflection.

So I look up and I just
saw three white lights

in a triangular formation

and a red orange
hazy ball in the middle.

I didn't see a structure
or machinery or anything,

I just saw the lights in
a triangular formation.

Just floating.

They started to move across
the water hovering silently,

there was no noise whatsoever,

and I started yelling for my
dad to come out and see this.

He did come out and
actually seen the tail end

of this thing as it
headed toward Canada,

and then it just
disappeared out of sight.

Now I think looking back
at it as an adult I would think

it was probably just a
top secret military project.

This was the '90s.

Stealth bombers were
just starting to be tested.

- What was your
sense about the origins

of what you were looking at?

Did you think it
was extraterrestrial?

Or secret government
craft, or what did you think?

- That was a tough
one because the lights

told me it was manmade,
Carl sagan would say any

sufficiently advanced technology
would appear like magic.

And there was nothing
magical about these lights.

They were standard
filament bulbs that have been

around for a long time
and you have the lights,

you have the color,
you have the shape.

That was from my perspective
an advanced stealth aircraft.

- Would it be
disappointing to you

if it was strictly
government made?

- I wouldn't be
disappointed if it was military

or human craft of some
kind for whatever purpose,

I wouldn't be disappointed.

I'd be perhaps a little worried,

perhaps a little bit betrayed.

We're in such a world now where

if they have this
kind of technology,

there are so many
problems in the world

that they could be fixing
yet they're advancing

all of this into that direction

and we're being lied
to when it could be put

to better use is a
frightening prospect.

Because what are
they using it for?

Where are they going?

And potentially how
frightening could that be?

- Do you have a personal
opinion on if these things exist,

if ufos exist, what is
behind the phenomenon?

- Yes they exist
or people wouldn't

talk about it or
see them or all that.

No I don't know what it is.

I really don't know
what's behind it.

I don't know if its aliens,
I don't know if its coming

from us, I don't know
if its misidentifications.

It's probably all
those things and more.

The one thing I do know
is that be get affected,

people get affected very deeply.

They have their whole lives
changed in a few seconds.

So if somebody
says this is what it is,

it's like, okay that's
your view of what it is,

I don't know if
it is what it is.

And especially with ufo thing
there may not be any is there.

The is is what we
make of it in many cases.

It's like a giant
rorschach blot,

ufology is, or the
subject I think.

(Intense music)

- I don't really have
a theory of origin.

I guess maybe it's
because I'm still trying to

figure out if these
things exist as

we've been told they
do for decades now.

Maybe there's something
going on that we haven't

even created a
hypothesis about just yet.

Or maybe the phenomenon
is so difficult to grasp

that every time we think
we have a handle on it

it will change form once again
and slip through our fingers

and leave us
floundering for answers.

Witness like Ryan, Sam,
and Shawn remind me

of Norman muscarello or
any of the other witnesses

that played a role
in the exeter incident.

Following the incident
in exeter the air force

arrived to instigate the
event and as with many cases

project blue book simply
wrote the whole thing off

as misidentification
of known aircraft.

In the years following
skeptics came forward

to offer their own
alternative explanations

for what it was that
was witnessed that night.

All of them failing to enlighten
those were present for

the initial event as to what
it was they'd actually seen.

In 1980 Norman muscarello
gave an in depth interview

wherein he was
asked what he believed

he actually saw
in exeter that night.

His response was that
we would have be naive

and ignorant to believe
ourselves alone in the universe.

But ended by stating that
he didn't know what it was.

Muscarello died in 2003
and up to the time of his death

insisted that what he'd seen
was something extraordinary.

Coming up on the next
episode of on the trail of ufos.

- This is a Nevada national
security site area here.

So they don't have to play by

the same rules as the military.

- And this is one of
those where one person

came out and said
that he worked on back

engineering alien
technology at area 51.

- Well of course the
rumor was that Bob Lazar

was working out there
reverse engineering

extraterrestrial space craft

and maybe they
possess alien bodies.

- I knew Bob Lazar before
he worked at area s-4.

So several months we
met at John leer's house

and he came and he said,

"you guys were
totally freaking right.

"I'm working on
one of the things!"

(Intense music)

(Dramatic music)