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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:01:15,451 --> 00:01:20,289 I liked the oil industry. I liked it because of its scale. 2 00:01:23,834 --> 00:01:27,630 I like the huge, vast, wide open spaces that you work on. 3 00:01:35,304 --> 00:01:37,723 Huge processes. 4 00:01:38,349 --> 00:01:41,477 That's what I liked, that’s what was interesting 5 00:01:41,727 --> 00:01:43,562 and brought pleasure to me. 6 00:02:19,265 --> 00:02:22,768 He made this decision himself. He decided to say it. 7 00:02:23,143 --> 00:02:28,023 I am sure he didn't believe that Putin was so... 8 00:02:29,233 --> 00:02:30,192 ...petty. 9 00:02:33,404 --> 00:02:36,991 He had already decided for himself 10 00:02:37,408 --> 00:02:41,412 that he wouldn't be going anywhere, and if he were arrested, he'd do his time. 11 00:02:43,038 --> 00:02:45,457 He's strange that way. 12 00:02:48,627 --> 00:02:50,880 You need to speak in short sound bites. 13 00:02:51,338 --> 00:02:53,966 They're gonna cut it, so you have to hurry. 14 00:02:54,174 --> 00:02:56,135 My first phrase was... 15 00:02:57,511 --> 00:02:59,555 please forgive me for quoting myself here... 16 00:03:01,473 --> 00:03:02,725 What I've seen 17 00:03:03,601 --> 00:03:06,979 allows me to claim that, obviously, 18 00:03:07,897 --> 00:03:10,566 with 100% certainty, 19 00:03:11,442 --> 00:03:15,696 this is an absolutely political case. 20 00:03:17,990 --> 00:03:21,285 Khodorkovsky is accused of fraud and tax evasion. 21 00:03:21,410 --> 00:03:23,954 Because he didn't hand himself in this morning, he has been summoned. 22 00:03:24,163 --> 00:03:27,207 The richest man in Russia, Mikhail Khodorkovsky, 23 00:03:27,416 --> 00:03:30,044 seized at gunpoint by Russian Special Forces... 24 00:03:30,169 --> 00:03:32,922 US Khodorkovsky is locked up in an overcrowded Russian prison... 25 00:03:36,175 --> 00:03:38,177 So, to stay out of prison, why didn't you leave the country? 26 00:03:40,596 --> 00:03:43,724 I don't value my life that much 27 00:03:43,891 --> 00:03:48,062 to exchange it for losing respect. 28 00:04:25,057 --> 00:04:27,017 As for Khodorkovsky, 29 00:04:27,267 --> 00:04:30,270 I have expressed my opinion on this on many occasions. 30 00:04:30,771 --> 00:04:36,318 But if you want me to say more, I will. 31 00:04:38,153 --> 00:04:40,781 I believe that a thief should sit in jail. 32 00:04:42,324 --> 00:04:48,789 Khodorkovsky has been convicted of embezzlement by a court. 33 00:04:49,123 --> 00:04:54,420 We're talking about tax evasion and fraud involving billions of rubles. 34 00:04:56,088 --> 00:04:59,174 Let me remind you the Yukos security chief 35 00:05:00,175 --> 00:05:01,635 is currently serving time for murder. 36 00:05:02,678 --> 00:05:07,725 Do you think the security chief decided to carry out these crimes all by himself? 37 00:05:14,815 --> 00:05:16,400 To hear Vladimir Putin tell it, 38 00:05:16,525 --> 00:05:19,945 Mikhail Khodorkovsky is a villain in a real-life gangster movie. 39 00:05:20,904 --> 00:05:22,072 But to Putin's opponents, 40 00:05:22,406 --> 00:05:25,993 Khodorkovsky's ten years in a Siberian prison made him a hero 41 00:05:26,201 --> 00:05:28,245 for the cause of human rights and democracy. 42 00:05:29,329 --> 00:05:32,332 Now out of prison, Khodorkovsky is looking for a third act. 43 00:05:33,709 --> 00:05:35,210 That drew my interest at a time 44 00:05:35,335 --> 00:05:37,921 when we all seem haunted by Russia's role in the world. 45 00:05:38,464 --> 00:05:39,923 So, I started a film about him. 46 00:05:40,090 --> 00:05:41,383 Okay, Mikhail, any time. 47 00:05:42,718 --> 00:05:44,887 While I could go to Russia, he could not. 48 00:05:45,596 --> 00:05:47,347 He's wanted there for murder. 49 00:05:47,931 --> 00:05:52,144 So, like so many stories about Russia these days, this one started in London. 50 00:05:58,734 --> 00:06:01,904 If there were some opportunity for me to return today I would return. 51 00:06:02,613 --> 00:06:07,034 London is nice but I'm a guest here, and I feel like a guest here. 52 00:06:07,701 --> 00:06:11,622 I live Russia. 53 00:06:13,082 --> 00:06:16,251 All that I do has to do with Russia. 54 00:06:54,998 --> 00:06:58,418 Putin and Khodorkovsky, they are both very strong. 55 00:06:58,585 --> 00:06:59,419 Right. 56 00:07:00,796 --> 00:07:03,757 -Everyone else, weaker. -Yes. 57 00:07:03,924 --> 00:07:05,926 But Putin... 58 00:07:06,927 --> 00:07:09,930 respects Khodorkovsky as a rival. 59 00:07:11,515 --> 00:07:15,894 He really respects him because he is strong. 60 00:07:23,986 --> 00:07:27,990 What event in your life influenced you most? 61 00:07:29,533 --> 00:07:30,701 An event in my life? 62 00:07:31,243 --> 00:07:32,161 Yes. 63 00:07:36,707 --> 00:07:40,043 I will try to respond seriously. 64 00:07:40,210 --> 00:07:43,463 Perhaps... perhaps it was... 65 00:07:44,923 --> 00:07:46,675 the collapse of the Soviet Union. 66 00:07:48,427 --> 00:07:52,639 This is an adult answer, sorry, but you asked me an adult question. 67 00:08:13,827 --> 00:08:18,165 I don't know to what extent you can imagine 68 00:08:18,790 --> 00:08:23,420 the life of an ordinary Soviet person, an ordinary Soviet family. 69 00:08:35,557 --> 00:08:37,893 My parents worked at the caliper plant. 70 00:08:38,435 --> 00:08:42,564 My father was a design engineer and my mother was a technologist. 71 00:08:44,066 --> 00:08:50,906 By Soviet standards, a family where both parents were engineers was very poor. 72 00:08:54,409 --> 00:08:57,955 Up until I started earning money myself, 73 00:08:58,205 --> 00:09:00,874 I understood perfectly well what it was like 74 00:09:00,999 --> 00:09:02,459 to live without any money at all. 75 00:09:04,795 --> 00:09:07,714 When I earned my first paycheck, I was 14 years old. 76 00:09:07,881 --> 00:09:11,343 A team of young toughs stepped to me, 77 00:09:11,468 --> 00:09:13,679 wanting to take my money. 78 00:09:15,013 --> 00:09:16,974 It didn't even cross my mind to give them the money. 79 00:09:17,307 --> 00:09:20,352 And to this day, I've got a scar on my arm 80 00:09:20,560 --> 00:09:23,355 from when they tried to stab me with a knife. 81 00:09:24,064 --> 00:09:26,066 I did not give my money. 82 00:09:28,819 --> 00:09:31,863 I got into a supplementary chemistry school. 83 00:09:32,364 --> 00:09:35,909 At home, I tried to create a little chemical lab myself. 84 00:09:36,576 --> 00:09:42,165 I lived on Cosmonaut Street and right next to us was Rocket Boulevard. 85 00:09:42,541 --> 00:09:49,339 And on Rocket Boulevard my father and I launched a rocket that I had built. 86 00:09:53,885 --> 00:09:58,890 My dad was lucky he didn't get hit, but he was impressed. 87 00:10:01,143 --> 00:10:03,312 All my life, I've been interested 88 00:10:03,770 --> 00:10:05,856 in things that explode. 89 00:10:19,995 --> 00:10:22,622 Why are you filming me without my permission? 90 00:10:23,165 --> 00:10:24,207 Stalin? 91 00:10:24,416 --> 00:10:27,169 What do you need Stalin for? He will have you shot! 92 00:10:28,337 --> 00:10:29,504 Understand? 93 00:10:33,884 --> 00:10:35,969 Just behind Red Square, there's a shopping mall 94 00:10:36,094 --> 00:10:38,764 where actors get paid for posing in tourist photos 95 00:10:38,972 --> 00:10:40,515 playing Russia's past leaders. 96 00:10:41,391 --> 00:10:46,104 In the winter of 2018, I was told that the number of Stalins was multiplying. 97 00:10:46,605 --> 00:10:48,732 The local joke was that this was a sign. 98 00:10:49,649 --> 00:10:52,319 Russia was nearing the pageantry of election season. 99 00:10:52,486 --> 00:10:53,403 18 MARCH 2018 100 00:11:01,036 --> 00:11:04,414 There are contestants on the reality show Dom-2 that behave better than you! 101 00:11:04,623 --> 00:11:07,084 Shut up stupid woman, shut up. 102 00:11:07,209 --> 00:11:08,668 How are you talking to me? 103 00:11:08,835 --> 00:11:11,213 How should I talk to her if she's dumb? She's got no brains! 104 00:11:11,338 --> 00:11:15,050 Did you see that? She's an idiot! Get her out of here! 105 00:11:15,258 --> 00:11:17,177 Well there is no election season. 106 00:11:18,512 --> 00:11:20,180 There's election theater. 107 00:11:20,639 --> 00:11:21,848 Calm down! 108 00:11:21,973 --> 00:11:24,059 Who gave her the right to throw water at me? 109 00:11:24,184 --> 00:11:27,687 The Kremlin has to create their own counter-candidates 110 00:11:28,188 --> 00:11:30,732 because no one wants to be a candidate against Putin 111 00:11:30,899 --> 00:11:32,609 because you will lose anyway. 112 00:11:35,737 --> 00:11:38,240 Today's election theater is what has become 113 00:11:38,365 --> 00:11:39,825 of Russia's experiment in democracy. 114 00:11:40,784 --> 00:11:43,537 A bold attempt to shift from years of communist rule 115 00:11:43,662 --> 00:11:45,122 to free-market capitalism. 116 00:12:01,638 --> 00:12:05,642 In 1991, the Soviet Union was convulsed in a struggle over its future. 117 00:12:05,976 --> 00:12:08,353 While old-guard communists clung to an empire 118 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:10,897 and a system of centralized government control, 119 00:12:11,606 --> 00:12:14,776 a new generation demanded economic and political freedoms. 120 00:12:15,944 --> 00:12:18,780 Their charismatic leader was Boris Yeltsin. 121 00:12:19,322 --> 00:12:22,659 Yeltsin! Yeltsin! Yeltsin! 122 00:12:26,955 --> 00:12:29,291 Boris Yeltsin has become the one rallying point 123 00:12:29,458 --> 00:12:31,376 for opposition to the hardliners. 124 00:12:32,002 --> 00:12:34,087 I was there as the BBC Moscow correspondent 125 00:12:34,254 --> 00:12:36,339 from '88 through to the end of '91. 126 00:12:36,465 --> 00:12:37,716 This is Martin Sixsmith. 127 00:12:37,883 --> 00:12:38,800 Martin Sixsmith. 128 00:12:38,925 --> 00:12:39,885 Martin Sixsmith. 129 00:12:40,051 --> 00:12:41,803 BBC News Moscow. 130 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:45,223 Yeltsin was a very, very inspirational figure. 131 00:12:45,348 --> 00:12:47,893 Back in 1991, he was the man for the moment. 132 00:12:50,187 --> 00:12:51,813 Yeltsin! Yeltsin! Yeltsin! 133 00:12:52,022 --> 00:12:53,064 It just felt like, you know, 134 00:12:53,273 --> 00:12:56,443 a sort of sea change in the fortunes of a country. 135 00:12:57,694 --> 00:13:00,489 The democratic process in the country 136 00:13:00,655 --> 00:13:03,158 is becoming increasingly broad and irreversible. 137 00:13:03,366 --> 00:13:06,453 The people of Russia are becoming masters of their destiny. 138 00:13:06,661 --> 00:13:09,456 Let's stay strong! 139 00:13:10,874 --> 00:13:11,875 Thank you. 140 00:13:13,335 --> 00:13:16,546 I remember writing all these sort of great optimistic articles 141 00:13:16,713 --> 00:13:18,840 about how decades of communism had come to an end 142 00:13:18,965 --> 00:13:21,218 and now we were going to have a new Russia, 143 00:13:21,343 --> 00:13:24,179 a new Russia with democracy and freedom and openness. 144 00:13:24,429 --> 00:13:27,557 And looking back, I'm a little ashamed that I wrote all of that, 145 00:13:27,766 --> 00:13:29,226 because the signs were there, 146 00:13:29,351 --> 00:13:32,270 even then, I think, that it wasn't going to work out. 147 00:13:35,690 --> 00:13:37,817 I still remember the shock. 148 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:41,738 The flag isn't red, there's a tricolor hanging there. 149 00:13:42,364 --> 00:13:46,701 At that point, I realized that everything had changed. 150 00:13:47,953 --> 00:13:50,038 We knew practically nothing about capitalism. 151 00:13:50,622 --> 00:13:53,583 It was a jump off the cliff. 152 00:13:54,459 --> 00:13:56,503 I had to consciously understand 153 00:13:56,628 --> 00:13:59,714 whether I want to go with the path of the Old World, 154 00:13:59,881 --> 00:14:02,926 or I reject it, and take the risk with Khodorkovsky. 155 00:14:10,392 --> 00:14:13,603 Khodorkovsky was a man of great intelligence and great vision. 156 00:14:13,853 --> 00:14:15,397 He was also a very decisive man. 157 00:14:16,022 --> 00:14:18,608 As soon as a door opened, he was straight through it. 158 00:14:19,734 --> 00:14:23,738 He'd been a member of the young communist organization, the Komsomol. 159 00:14:24,030 --> 00:14:25,782 Not because he believed in communism, 160 00:14:25,907 --> 00:14:28,285 but because Gorbachev in the perestroika era 161 00:14:28,451 --> 00:14:30,954 started to relax the ban on private enterprise, 162 00:14:31,162 --> 00:14:32,414 starting with the Komsomol. 163 00:14:33,206 --> 00:14:36,793 By the time the collapse of the Soviet Union happened in 1991, 164 00:14:37,002 --> 00:14:38,670 he had some cash in his pocket. 165 00:14:39,629 --> 00:14:42,841 He created the first commercial bank in Russia. 166 00:14:44,259 --> 00:14:48,805 I found a book: Commercial Banks of Capitalist Countries. 167 00:14:49,889 --> 00:14:51,433 A fabulous book! 168 00:14:51,558 --> 00:14:54,311 It described in great detail, on a simple level, 169 00:14:54,519 --> 00:14:57,439 how a banking system works. 170 00:14:57,647 --> 00:14:59,399 I said, "Hey, I like this." 171 00:14:59,566 --> 00:15:03,194 "Okay. How can I create a bank?" 172 00:15:04,821 --> 00:15:07,490 Are you a greedy person? 173 00:15:07,616 --> 00:15:11,369 Definitely, definitely. Definitely. 174 00:15:11,620 --> 00:15:14,080 I used to be less greedy, now I'm greedier. 175 00:15:14,205 --> 00:15:16,708 It's a professional trait. 176 00:15:17,250 --> 00:15:20,086 I have the personality of a banker. I'm greedy with money. 177 00:15:20,503 --> 00:15:24,174 I just don't understand how people can exchange those pretty bills 178 00:15:24,299 --> 00:15:26,509 for some crappy goods. 179 00:15:26,635 --> 00:15:30,430 I think one must save, store, and multiply money. 180 00:15:36,186 --> 00:15:38,355 For me, business was just a game. 181 00:15:39,522 --> 00:15:41,107 Who wants to play, plays. 182 00:15:41,274 --> 00:15:43,902 Who doesn't want to play does something else. 183 00:15:45,737 --> 00:15:48,281 Khodorkovsky said: "I thought of this all as a game. 184 00:15:48,490 --> 00:15:49,783 And I was good at playing the game." 185 00:15:49,949 --> 00:15:51,993 Exactly! He was good at playing the game 186 00:15:52,118 --> 00:15:54,537 but most people were very bad at playing the game. 187 00:16:04,297 --> 00:16:07,759 Moving from the Soviet Union into capitalist Russia, 188 00:16:08,551 --> 00:16:10,845 most Russians were completely naive 189 00:16:11,513 --> 00:16:13,765 because they had read all this propaganda 190 00:16:13,932 --> 00:16:17,185 for all these years that capitalists were people with, you know, 191 00:16:17,310 --> 00:16:19,979 big cigars and money coming out of their pockets. 192 00:16:20,397 --> 00:16:23,650 And they imagined that you would get rich automatically. 193 00:16:24,609 --> 00:16:28,279 When they grew up, everything was taken care of by the state. 194 00:16:29,447 --> 00:16:31,408 You know, free economy sounds nice, 195 00:16:32,283 --> 00:16:34,703 but you have to make choices every five minutes. 196 00:16:37,539 --> 00:16:40,083 In the early '90s, Russians faced lots of choices 197 00:16:40,208 --> 00:16:41,584 they didn't really understand. 198 00:16:42,502 --> 00:16:44,963 Egged on by American free market boosters, 199 00:16:45,213 --> 00:16:47,132 the Russian government announced a program 200 00:16:47,298 --> 00:16:50,552 to hand out a chit worth around 40 dollars to every citizen. 201 00:16:51,136 --> 00:16:55,140 The chits were called vouchers and could be traded, sold for cash, 202 00:16:55,515 --> 00:16:58,184 or exchanged for shares in smaller state-owned enterprises. 203 00:16:58,935 --> 00:17:02,605 They were sold as golden tickets to escape the dead end of communism. 204 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:12,866 You aren't hurt? What's the rush? 205 00:17:13,032 --> 00:17:14,117 What is this? 206 00:17:14,492 --> 00:17:15,910 Oh, my, you're rich! 207 00:17:17,662 --> 00:17:19,456 Voucher! 208 00:17:19,581 --> 00:17:22,834 Friend of privatization measures! 209 00:17:23,543 --> 00:17:27,922 At first sight it's modest, simple, but really it's gold! 210 00:17:28,131 --> 00:17:29,174 Mine! 211 00:17:29,424 --> 00:17:32,469 Vow-ow-ow-ow 212 00:17:32,635 --> 00:17:36,389 Vow-ow you are my love. 213 00:17:37,056 --> 00:17:40,351 Now I, a naughty boy, 214 00:17:40,477 --> 00:17:42,562 am not afraid of ruble rate changes! 215 00:17:44,272 --> 00:17:47,400 The meaning is simple! 216 00:17:47,567 --> 00:17:50,820 Vow-ow-ow-ow my darling! 217 00:17:57,952 --> 00:18:00,371 The last three vouchers, 4.50. 218 00:18:00,538 --> 00:18:02,415 Vouchers for sale. 219 00:18:03,666 --> 00:18:08,463 We started buying up these vouchers because they were in free circulation. 220 00:18:09,088 --> 00:18:12,801 Then, with these vouchers, we would take part in auctions 221 00:18:12,926 --> 00:18:16,346 for the sale of enterprise shares. 222 00:18:17,639 --> 00:18:20,892 That's how privatization worked. 223 00:18:23,853 --> 00:18:25,647 It was a time of great economic hardship 224 00:18:25,772 --> 00:18:28,983 and the ordinary people didn't realize what this piece of paper was worth. 225 00:18:29,442 --> 00:18:32,445 But the people who did sent out people with suitcases full of cash 226 00:18:32,821 --> 00:18:34,864 and they said: "Look, you don't need that piece of paper! 227 00:18:35,031 --> 00:18:38,076 Here, we'll give you ten dollars and you can go and buy some bread." 228 00:18:40,370 --> 00:18:43,706 I wasn't saying, "I'll give you three rubles," 229 00:18:43,873 --> 00:18:45,083 and then I give you one instead. 230 00:18:45,208 --> 00:18:46,459 That's not what happened. 231 00:18:46,751 --> 00:18:49,879 I said, "I'll give you three rubles. It's up to you to sell or not. 232 00:18:50,046 --> 00:18:54,634 If you can sell it right now for the price of a Volga car, great! 233 00:18:55,134 --> 00:18:57,846 If you can't, I've only got three rubles for you." 234 00:18:59,973 --> 00:19:02,267 So a beggar person 235 00:19:02,517 --> 00:19:07,814 is a beggar only because they don't want to work, am I understanding correctly? 236 00:19:09,023 --> 00:19:14,821 Well, let's say that the society doesn't react to it that much yet, 237 00:19:15,238 --> 00:19:19,742 but mainly because beggars consider it a more advantageous occupation. 238 00:19:23,288 --> 00:19:27,792 Mikhail Borisovich asked us to attract people of high professional caliber. 239 00:19:28,001 --> 00:19:29,794 That is how we acquired Platon Lebedev. 240 00:19:31,796 --> 00:19:33,715 He was a young but prominent economist. 241 00:19:35,049 --> 00:19:40,555 We bought about 100 substantial enterprises. 242 00:19:41,264 --> 00:19:44,309 We had to fight for each of them, as the competition was high. 243 00:19:45,643 --> 00:19:48,021 We stood firm on our feet by then. 244 00:19:50,648 --> 00:19:51,900 The more Khodorkovsky made, 245 00:19:52,025 --> 00:19:54,235 the more vouchers and companies he could buy, 246 00:19:54,527 --> 00:19:57,280 either on the open market or in backroom deals. 247 00:19:57,864 --> 00:19:59,574 It was gangster capitalism, 248 00:19:59,699 --> 00:20:02,952 with a rule of law as weak and bendy as a rubber band. 249 00:20:06,831 --> 00:20:09,292 Under communism, the absence of personal wealth 250 00:20:09,876 --> 00:20:12,170 meant that there were few targets for violent criminals. 251 00:20:12,795 --> 00:20:17,091 Now, organized crime groups prey on the new rich of the capitalist era. 252 00:20:17,425 --> 00:20:19,928 Moscow has become the murder capital of Europe. 253 00:20:20,053 --> 00:20:23,890 If you were rich, and people knew you were rich, you were a target. 254 00:20:24,015 --> 00:20:25,808 It was Wild West capitalism. 255 00:20:35,443 --> 00:20:39,447 In America, Wild West lasted for many decades. 256 00:20:39,614 --> 00:20:43,451 In our country, we managed to fit it into seven years. 257 00:20:56,422 --> 00:20:57,840 Now watch closely. 258 00:21:02,387 --> 00:21:06,015 I got it. I got the shot on camera. 259 00:21:11,312 --> 00:21:15,608 In '92, we launched The Moscow Times and we had a lot of news. 260 00:21:16,401 --> 00:21:21,030 A lot of people got killed and many, many companies were looking for protection. 261 00:21:22,115 --> 00:21:24,701 The Moscow Times developed pretty well 262 00:21:25,034 --> 00:21:28,830 and then two years later, I launched Cosmopolitan, 263 00:21:29,205 --> 00:21:32,959 which from day one was an enormous commercial success 264 00:21:33,376 --> 00:21:36,754 and that attracted a lot of shady people. 265 00:21:37,463 --> 00:21:40,216 I thought, you know, maybe it's better 266 00:21:40,591 --> 00:21:46,055 to get one of these rising oligarchs as a shareholder. 267 00:21:46,514 --> 00:21:49,600 There was one guy in particular that I got interested in. 268 00:21:49,934 --> 00:21:52,228 And that was Mikhail Khodorkovsky. 269 00:21:53,479 --> 00:21:56,649 He moved to a very fancy castle in Moscow. 270 00:21:57,358 --> 00:21:59,861 Machine guns all over the place. 271 00:21:59,986 --> 00:22:04,407 He had former KGB colonels running his security. 272 00:22:05,366 --> 00:22:09,162 This was not Russia. This was Khodorkovsky land, you know. 273 00:22:10,705 --> 00:22:12,498 Lebedev had a nice house. 274 00:22:12,999 --> 00:22:14,542 Nevzlin was next door. 275 00:22:14,959 --> 00:22:16,836 And then there was Khodorkovsky. 276 00:22:18,963 --> 00:22:23,134 I said, " The Moscow Times is a fiercely independent newspaper. 277 00:22:23,926 --> 00:22:26,679 And if we sell ten percent of our shares, 278 00:22:27,430 --> 00:22:30,475 we want to remain a fiercely independent newspaper." 279 00:22:30,850 --> 00:22:33,227 And he thought about it, and he said yes. 280 00:22:33,936 --> 00:22:37,607 He was an extremely intelligent person, 281 00:22:37,815 --> 00:22:42,028 but of course, using every trick in the book available to him. 282 00:22:42,904 --> 00:22:44,572 And at that time, 283 00:22:45,031 --> 00:22:48,576 this transition from communism to capitalism, 284 00:22:49,035 --> 00:22:54,707 was so fast that it was impossible for the legal structure to keep up. 285 00:22:58,461 --> 00:23:01,255 In Russia, laws are kind of an iffy question. 286 00:23:01,631 --> 00:23:03,716 There is even a popular saying in our country. 287 00:23:04,175 --> 00:23:07,887 The strictness of Russian laws is compensated for 288 00:23:08,221 --> 00:23:10,223 by the lack of obligation to follow them. 289 00:23:17,146 --> 00:23:20,316 Boris Berezovsky, who was one of the big seven oligarchs, 290 00:23:20,525 --> 00:23:21,818 very famously said, 291 00:23:22,276 --> 00:23:25,363 "The seven of us controlled 50 percent 292 00:23:25,738 --> 00:23:28,116 of the whole Russian economy." 293 00:23:37,458 --> 00:23:40,628 Two of the Oligarchs placed big bets on the future of television. 294 00:23:41,420 --> 00:23:44,799 Boris Berezovsky bought a national network called Channel 1. 295 00:23:45,466 --> 00:23:48,636 He thought he would cash in by turning a Soviet propaganda vehicle 296 00:23:48,970 --> 00:23:50,138 into a selling machine. 297 00:23:50,888 --> 00:23:55,017 Vladimir Gusinsky set his sights on starting a new network called NTV. 298 00:24:02,066 --> 00:24:02,984 NTV PRESENTS 299 00:24:03,151 --> 00:24:06,279 The original concept of NTV was a TV channel 300 00:24:06,904 --> 00:24:09,198 which is not controlled by the government. 301 00:24:11,117 --> 00:24:14,662 An investor was found who was Vladimir Gusinsky. 302 00:24:14,954 --> 00:24:19,959 He didn't know anything about TV at all but there was a benefit. 303 00:24:20,334 --> 00:24:23,212 He badly underestimated how much it would cost. 304 00:24:33,139 --> 00:24:36,184 Gusinsky spent hundreds of millions of dollars buying movies, 305 00:24:36,475 --> 00:24:37,727 launching game shows 306 00:24:37,894 --> 00:24:40,354 and building an independent news division from scratch. 307 00:24:41,022 --> 00:24:44,483 Thanks to the Soviets, almost everyone in Russia had TV sets 308 00:24:44,984 --> 00:24:46,736 so the money started rolling in. 309 00:24:48,529 --> 00:24:50,823 The oligarchs organized between themselves, 310 00:24:50,990 --> 00:24:53,910 "I do the oil, you do the telecommunications, 311 00:24:54,076 --> 00:24:58,497 you do the real estate." So, it was one big scam. 312 00:25:00,333 --> 00:25:04,503 For the oligarchs, the scam of Russian capitalism was only possible 313 00:25:04,670 --> 00:25:06,380 as long as there was a political system 314 00:25:06,505 --> 00:25:09,008 that protected private property and individual rights. 315 00:25:10,426 --> 00:25:11,886 Call it democracy. 316 00:25:12,762 --> 00:25:14,472 But if the communists returned to power, 317 00:25:14,639 --> 00:25:17,475 well, that would have been bad for business. 318 00:25:18,517 --> 00:25:20,770 Yeltsin was up for re-election, 319 00:25:21,771 --> 00:25:24,941 but the country was in a really, really, bad state. 320 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:27,568 People looked around, 321 00:25:27,735 --> 00:25:30,279 "If this is, you know, the capitalism that they promised, 322 00:25:30,446 --> 00:25:32,406 we don't want anything to do with it." 323 00:25:33,074 --> 00:25:34,408 The government coffers were empty, 324 00:25:34,575 --> 00:25:37,912 so people's salaries weren't being paid, pensions weren't being paid, 325 00:25:38,287 --> 00:25:39,580 and if you imagine, as a president, 326 00:25:39,747 --> 00:25:41,999 who's not paying people's pensions and people's salaries, 327 00:25:42,833 --> 00:25:44,001 you're not going to be very popular. 328 00:25:44,710 --> 00:25:47,505 It really did look as if Gennady Zyuganov, the communist leader, 329 00:25:47,630 --> 00:25:50,216 was going to beat Yeltsin hands down at the election. 330 00:25:52,134 --> 00:25:55,263 At that time, I was speaking to Zyuganov, and he said, 331 00:25:55,471 --> 00:25:57,890 "Mikhail Borisovich, we respect you, 332 00:25:58,057 --> 00:26:00,935 and if we win, you will become a general director. 333 00:26:01,185 --> 00:26:04,021 But the ownership of the enterprise, excuse me, 334 00:26:04,313 --> 00:26:06,774 is going to be state ownership." 335 00:26:07,358 --> 00:26:09,652 I said, "Okay, Gennady Andreyevich. 336 00:26:09,860 --> 00:26:14,115 We'll work to ensure that you don't become president." 337 00:26:15,491 --> 00:26:18,619 The problem was that Yeltsin at that point was so weak. 338 00:26:19,078 --> 00:26:21,289 He was at a three percent approval rate. 339 00:26:21,455 --> 00:26:25,751 He was sick, he had all these heart attacks, he was down and out! 340 00:26:34,427 --> 00:26:39,056 One of the very new things which NTV started doing 341 00:26:39,307 --> 00:26:41,600 was a puppet show called "Kukly." 342 00:26:41,976 --> 00:26:46,480 It was a really scathing, satirical-- Satirical show. 343 00:26:46,856 --> 00:26:49,066 Kiss me 344 00:26:49,608 --> 00:26:54,530 Kiss me a lot 345 00:26:55,031 --> 00:26:58,826 In one of the shows, Mr. Yeltsin was portrayed as Don Quixote 346 00:26:59,660 --> 00:27:05,082 and the head of his security was portrayed as his Sancho Panza. 347 00:27:06,125 --> 00:27:10,171 It's not Russian tradition to laugh at the president. 348 00:27:10,755 --> 00:27:14,342 Laughing at, at the tsar , so to say, 349 00:27:14,508 --> 00:27:18,512 at the emperor, was something unheard-- unheard of. 350 00:27:19,430 --> 00:27:26,354 Let's drink for the most deserving to win in the election! 351 00:27:28,481 --> 00:27:31,317 Yeltsin was in a very difficult situation. 352 00:27:31,484 --> 00:27:35,863 We'd film him and he'd be staggering across the room, 353 00:27:36,030 --> 00:27:37,907 barely able to stand upright. 354 00:27:40,368 --> 00:27:43,496 It was clear that he was quite ill, 355 00:27:43,996 --> 00:27:47,500 but, of course, there was a natural sympathy 356 00:27:47,666 --> 00:27:51,087 and support for Yeltsin from Russian TV. 357 00:27:51,545 --> 00:27:55,841 Yes, probably it was not very fair but his opponent was a communist 358 00:27:56,300 --> 00:28:01,055 who openly was saying that no such thing as freedom of the press 359 00:28:01,222 --> 00:28:03,682 would exist under his rule. 360 00:28:04,433 --> 00:28:05,810 Openly supporting Yeltsin, 361 00:28:06,102 --> 00:28:09,647 NTV hatched an elaborate plan to hide the President's ill health. 362 00:28:10,481 --> 00:28:13,109 Malashenko sent a crew to Yeltsin's country home 363 00:28:13,401 --> 00:28:17,238 where he was secretly confined to bed rest after a major heart attack. 364 00:28:18,114 --> 00:28:23,077 We had to demonstrate that Yeltsin is still alive, at least. 365 00:28:23,744 --> 00:28:26,580 He was too seriously ill to travel to Moscow, 366 00:28:26,789 --> 00:28:30,835 so, we took some furniture from his Kremlin office 367 00:28:31,127 --> 00:28:34,755 and we reproduced it at his country house. 368 00:28:35,256 --> 00:28:40,010 So, at this set, he was visited by Prime Minister Chernomyrdin 369 00:28:40,469 --> 00:28:43,806 and Yeltsin spoke with him for 30 seconds, 370 00:28:44,515 --> 00:28:48,894 signed some paper and it was shown on TV. 371 00:28:50,521 --> 00:28:54,358 Many times I was told that it's a thing I shouldn't do 372 00:28:54,859 --> 00:28:58,154 My response is very simple, it was and it is. 373 00:28:58,737 --> 00:29:02,658 That I would rather elect a corpse of Yeltsin than a live Zyuganov. 374 00:29:11,041 --> 00:29:13,586 We had suddenly this amazing, new Yeltsin 375 00:29:14,211 --> 00:29:17,840 and, you know, maybe the doctors had given him a shot of adrenaline or something, 376 00:29:18,382 --> 00:29:20,217 but I think what had really reinvigorated him 377 00:29:20,426 --> 00:29:21,927 was the deal he'd cut with the oligarchs. 378 00:29:23,846 --> 00:29:27,600 They struck a Faustian bargain, 379 00:29:27,850 --> 00:29:30,269 which has become known as "loans-for-shares." 380 00:29:31,437 --> 00:29:34,857 In every Faustian bargain, the devil is in the details. 381 00:29:35,774 --> 00:29:37,067 On the verge of collapse, 382 00:29:37,234 --> 00:29:39,320 Yeltsin's government desperately needed cash 383 00:29:39,487 --> 00:29:40,946 to pay salaries and pensions. 384 00:29:41,655 --> 00:29:43,824 The oligarchs agreed to funnel money to the state 385 00:29:43,949 --> 00:29:47,495 by making a series of loans the government couldn't afford to repay. 386 00:29:48,704 --> 00:29:51,457 When the loans did default, the oligarchs got the right 387 00:29:51,624 --> 00:29:53,876 to buy Russia's biggest state enterprises 388 00:29:54,126 --> 00:29:57,463 in sham auctions run by the oligarchs themselves. 389 00:29:58,255 --> 00:30:01,884 On TV, the deals played like arms-length banking transactions. 390 00:30:02,593 --> 00:30:05,804 In reality, the oligarchs had cut inside deals 391 00:30:05,971 --> 00:30:09,850 to pay bargain basement prices for Russia's most valuable assets. 392 00:30:15,731 --> 00:30:19,443 Khodorkovsky was interested in a massive state oil company called Yukos. 393 00:30:19,860 --> 00:30:22,613 His bank, Menatep, was the only bidder at the auction, 394 00:30:22,905 --> 00:30:25,199 which was run by… Menatep. 395 00:30:26,116 --> 00:30:29,411 At the time, Yukos was valued at five billion dollars. 396 00:30:30,162 --> 00:30:34,291 Menatep offered and paid what it had on hand, 310 million. 397 00:30:34,583 --> 00:30:35,501 A steal. 398 00:30:36,877 --> 00:30:38,921 It was all conflict of interest. 399 00:30:39,630 --> 00:30:43,133 There was no transparency. It was just one big mess. 400 00:30:44,677 --> 00:30:46,095 You know, we wrote about this stuff, 401 00:30:46,470 --> 00:30:49,515 and Menatep was a shareholder of The Moscow Times. 402 00:30:50,516 --> 00:30:53,269 Khodorkovsky himself was not sitting on our board, 403 00:30:53,686 --> 00:30:56,605 but Leonid Nevzlin, his right-hand man was. 404 00:30:56,855 --> 00:30:59,066 So this Nevzlin was, you know, fuming. 405 00:31:00,025 --> 00:31:01,694 Was there ever any pressure on you 406 00:31:02,069 --> 00:31:04,238 to write something that was kind of pro Yukos? 407 00:31:06,407 --> 00:31:07,366 Of course! 408 00:31:16,208 --> 00:31:22,131 I was at the press conference given by the winners after the auction. 409 00:31:22,673 --> 00:31:25,884 I asked him a question about Yukos, 410 00:31:26,010 --> 00:31:27,845 and Khodorkovsky suddenly 411 00:31:28,012 --> 00:31:33,058 started to answer me, formally, that he was managing the bank, 412 00:31:33,267 --> 00:31:37,062 that the bank was not managing the oil company, 413 00:31:37,313 --> 00:31:41,483 this was such utter bullshit that I couldn't hide my disappointment 414 00:31:41,734 --> 00:31:44,486 and I made this face, 415 00:31:45,112 --> 00:31:49,199 and, suddenly, after the press conference, Khodorkovsky came up to me. 416 00:31:49,742 --> 00:31:52,202 He approached me to explain, 417 00:31:52,411 --> 00:31:57,082 almost to apologize for his lie to me. 418 00:31:57,458 --> 00:31:59,126 He was not comfortable lying. 419 00:32:00,919 --> 00:32:02,713 Naturally, of course, it wasn't fair. 420 00:32:03,380 --> 00:32:06,634 But, I don't think this was a bad deal for the state. 421 00:32:08,552 --> 00:32:11,639 Oil production started dropping, precipitously, in the country. 422 00:32:12,181 --> 00:32:15,100 Plus, the employees weren't getting paid for six months at a time. 423 00:32:16,101 --> 00:32:20,439 It was proposed to us that we give all the money that we had. 424 00:32:21,982 --> 00:32:26,236 These companies actually resumed normal operation quite quickly. 425 00:32:26,862 --> 00:32:28,614 The political problem disappeared. 426 00:32:28,989 --> 00:32:32,868 The workers started being paid their salaries before the elections. 427 00:32:41,001 --> 00:32:43,629 This was the biggest mistake of the oligarchs, 428 00:32:43,962 --> 00:32:46,090 and the journalists, and the liberals. 429 00:32:47,007 --> 00:32:52,137 I blame them as much as the communists or any other forces, even more. 430 00:32:52,888 --> 00:32:57,267 Because they were the people with the vision and the will to change 431 00:32:57,518 --> 00:33:00,479 and they were going to create a new Russia. 432 00:33:01,563 --> 00:33:04,149 And what do they do, the first time they get into trouble 433 00:33:04,316 --> 00:33:07,611 in, you know, in '96, their candidate may lose? 434 00:33:08,529 --> 00:33:13,534 They just throw out the whole idea of normal democratic process. 435 00:33:14,535 --> 00:33:19,123 Today it's hard to say did Yeltsin really win or not. 436 00:33:19,540 --> 00:33:24,461 I personally think he did actually win, because he was ready for power. 437 00:33:26,672 --> 00:33:28,799 Power in any country, 438 00:33:29,842 --> 00:33:31,301 and especially in Russia, 439 00:33:31,844 --> 00:33:34,596 is always a projection of people's readiness 440 00:33:34,763 --> 00:33:37,057 to defend it with arms in hand. 441 00:33:37,891 --> 00:33:42,896 If you aren't ready to defend your position with arms in hand, 442 00:33:44,148 --> 00:33:45,399 you're not interesting anymore. 443 00:33:46,734 --> 00:33:47,860 Just not interesting. 444 00:33:52,072 --> 00:33:54,283 Putin is also a product of the '90s. 445 00:33:59,329 --> 00:34:00,914 Vladimir Putin came from nowhere. 446 00:34:01,331 --> 00:34:04,793 He'd been a minor official in the KGB in East Germany 447 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,046 when the Wall collapsed and found himself out of a job. 448 00:34:09,590 --> 00:34:11,967 He found a post up in Leningrad 449 00:34:12,176 --> 00:34:15,345 with the then mayor, a man called Anatoly Sobchak. 450 00:34:20,434 --> 00:34:22,895 If you worked your whole life with Sobchak, 451 00:34:23,228 --> 00:34:27,399 the most liberal mayor in Russia, you must be an okay guy. 452 00:34:28,066 --> 00:34:29,109 That's what I thought. 453 00:34:32,696 --> 00:34:35,949 In fact, Putin was accused of launching a kickback scheme 454 00:34:36,074 --> 00:34:39,453 to embezzle money meant for food for St. Petersburg 455 00:34:39,787 --> 00:34:41,622 which was facing a famine. 456 00:34:44,166 --> 00:34:48,587 When members of the city council raised the issue, Sobchak did not fire Putin. 457 00:34:48,879 --> 00:34:50,923 He promoted him to deputy mayor. 458 00:34:52,925 --> 00:34:54,259 As if to commemorate the moment, 459 00:34:54,551 --> 00:34:56,887 Putin commissioned this documentary about himself. 460 00:34:57,679 --> 00:34:58,847 He kept the title simple. 461 00:34:59,348 --> 00:35:01,475 POWER 462 00:35:06,772 --> 00:35:08,732 Are you a lucky person? 463 00:35:10,359 --> 00:35:12,820 Until this day, I couldn't complain about my destiny, 464 00:35:12,986 --> 00:35:15,697 which can lead to a conclusion that I am lucky. 465 00:35:16,240 --> 00:35:22,204 What happened in 1996 - can one say that it opened up the way for Putin? 466 00:35:22,454 --> 00:35:24,957 Of course, no, no, of course. 467 00:35:25,332 --> 00:35:27,876 De facto, everything that was happening back then 468 00:35:28,085 --> 00:35:31,046 was opening up the way to the future dictatorship. 469 00:35:35,759 --> 00:35:38,762 When Putin's boss failed to win re-election in 1996, 470 00:35:39,513 --> 00:35:41,640 Putin and some friends flew to Moscow 471 00:35:41,890 --> 00:35:43,851 where they landed low-level jobs at the Kremlin. 472 00:35:44,518 --> 00:35:45,477 Goodbye. 473 00:35:46,895 --> 00:35:49,439 Putin held six jobs in three years. 474 00:35:50,148 --> 00:35:54,611 By 1999, he was prime minister and Yeltsin's likely successor. 475 00:35:55,571 --> 00:35:58,240 But Putin didn't get to the top all by himself. 476 00:35:59,074 --> 00:36:01,368 The oligarchs were, in fact, the force, 477 00:36:01,493 --> 00:36:04,496 that in many ways, brought Vladimir Putin to power. 478 00:36:08,876 --> 00:36:12,421 Putin was put there very much to carry on Yeltsin's rule, 479 00:36:12,546 --> 00:36:15,048 with the help of ultimately four people. 480 00:36:15,966 --> 00:36:17,718 Yeltsin's daughter and her husband, 481 00:36:17,843 --> 00:36:20,596 and two of the oligarchs who were close to Yeltsin, 482 00:36:20,804 --> 00:36:23,098 Boris Berezovsky and Roman Abramovich. 483 00:36:23,599 --> 00:36:24,808 They were looking for a successor 484 00:36:24,975 --> 00:36:28,854 who would, basically, guarantee their safety and guarantee their wealth. 485 00:36:33,066 --> 00:36:38,822 I've never gotten into any conflicts with any of the so-called oligarchs. 486 00:36:39,406 --> 00:36:42,826 One of the so-called oligarchs set about selling Putin to the public. 487 00:36:43,201 --> 00:36:47,414 Boris Berezovsky used his TV channel to mock Putin's political rivals 488 00:36:47,706 --> 00:36:49,750 and promote his image as a tough leader. 489 00:36:51,168 --> 00:36:53,921 When a series of explosions killed hundreds in Moscow, 490 00:36:54,546 --> 00:36:57,341 some suspected Putin himself might have been involved. 491 00:36:57,883 --> 00:37:01,345 But at the time, TV news footage highlighted Putin's tough response 492 00:37:01,470 --> 00:37:04,306 to the bombings which he blamed on Chechen terrorists. 493 00:37:04,765 --> 00:37:06,683 We'll chase terrorists everywhere. 494 00:37:06,850 --> 00:37:08,435 If they are in the airport, we'll get them in the airport. 495 00:37:08,602 --> 00:37:10,479 If we catch them - I beg your pardon - in the toilet, 496 00:37:10,646 --> 00:37:13,023 we'll rub them out in the outhouse. 497 00:37:13,190 --> 00:37:14,441 That's it, question closed. 498 00:37:22,908 --> 00:37:26,286 He's tough. And I think this is the thing 499 00:37:26,411 --> 00:37:30,666 that we need in this country at the moment, some toughness. 500 00:37:35,837 --> 00:37:36,838 I... 501 00:37:40,217 --> 00:37:41,551 I... am leaving. 502 00:37:43,095 --> 00:37:46,765 Yeltsin left office on December 31st, 1999 503 00:37:47,557 --> 00:37:49,518 and appointed Putin acting president. 504 00:37:50,811 --> 00:37:52,896 Putin, in turn, promise to forgive Yeltsin 505 00:37:53,105 --> 00:37:55,857 for any sins or crimes he may have committed. 506 00:37:57,025 --> 00:38:00,862 It was another inside deal, sealed by a new election a few months later. 507 00:38:02,072 --> 00:38:04,366 Putin, running as an incumbent, won easily. 508 00:38:05,575 --> 00:38:08,120 Eighteen years later, he's still in the same office. 509 00:38:12,624 --> 00:38:15,877 Yes, I am listening. Good evening. 510 00:38:16,628 --> 00:38:18,213 Yes, please. 511 00:38:22,092 --> 00:38:23,301 Bye. 512 00:38:38,650 --> 00:38:43,363 Putinism is a way to restore pride in your country. 513 00:38:45,657 --> 00:38:50,370 Putinism in itself, there's nothing wrong with it. 514 00:38:52,372 --> 00:38:56,877 When Putin started, he did a lot of good things for the country 515 00:38:57,294 --> 00:38:59,838 because it was a mess. 516 00:39:00,505 --> 00:39:03,133 People were completely dispirited. 517 00:39:04,718 --> 00:39:07,637 People longed to... 518 00:39:08,180 --> 00:39:09,890 to be part of something. 519 00:39:10,474 --> 00:39:13,060 You know, if you grew up in a world power 520 00:39:13,226 --> 00:39:16,521 and then the rest of the world sees you as a joke, 521 00:39:16,688 --> 00:39:20,150 as a banana republic, it's very humiliating. 522 00:39:20,859 --> 00:39:23,904 So, people really needed such a figure. 523 00:39:26,448 --> 00:39:29,534 It seemed to me that, ideologically, he was one of our people. 524 00:39:30,118 --> 00:39:32,579 A man of our generation 525 00:39:33,413 --> 00:39:39,419 who gets it, who wants to push Russia in the same direction that we want for it, 526 00:39:39,586 --> 00:39:44,299 that is towards openness, towards democracy. 527 00:39:46,968 --> 00:39:48,053 Boy, was I mistaken. 528 00:39:49,930 --> 00:39:52,432 He's a very talented KGB guy. 529 00:39:52,557 --> 00:39:53,725 Very talented. 530 00:39:57,395 --> 00:39:58,772 You like leftists? 531 00:39:59,439 --> 00:40:00,565 Putin will behave around you 532 00:40:01,483 --> 00:40:03,568 in a way that you will be convinced that he's a leftist. 533 00:40:04,486 --> 00:40:06,154 You like nationalists? 534 00:40:06,738 --> 00:40:07,864 Putin is going to act around you 535 00:40:08,031 --> 00:40:10,158 in a way that you'll think that he's a bit of a nationalist. 536 00:40:11,243 --> 00:40:12,911 You like conservatives? 537 00:40:13,703 --> 00:40:17,290 Talk to him and you will get an impression that he's a conservative. 538 00:40:18,416 --> 00:40:19,376 That's a talent. 539 00:40:25,298 --> 00:40:29,344 Putin had declared that he supported the liberal views of Yeltsin 540 00:40:29,553 --> 00:40:32,848 and that he was going to keep Russia on a course of liberty and openness. 541 00:40:33,014 --> 00:40:35,767 But even then you could see that Putin was looking for a way 542 00:40:35,976 --> 00:40:39,312 to re-calibrate this relationship 543 00:40:39,521 --> 00:40:42,357 between political power and the oligarchs. 544 00:40:42,774 --> 00:40:44,943 You're the ones who shaped this government, 545 00:40:46,319 --> 00:40:51,491 mainly through controlled political and semi-political structures. 546 00:40:52,492 --> 00:40:54,327 At first, he said, "Look, we'll do a deal. 547 00:40:54,619 --> 00:40:58,790 I'm not going to question the results of the privatization process, 548 00:40:58,915 --> 00:41:01,626 which meant, I'm not going to try and take back your business empires 549 00:41:01,835 --> 00:41:05,505 that you've got through the loans-for-shares auctions 550 00:41:05,714 --> 00:41:07,883 as long as you keep out of politics." 551 00:41:10,051 --> 00:41:12,596 For the moment, that separation of business and politics 552 00:41:12,804 --> 00:41:14,306 served Khodorkovsky's interest. 553 00:41:15,140 --> 00:41:17,309 For Khodorkovsky, business had been hard enough. 554 00:41:18,226 --> 00:41:19,895 He left banking to focus on Yukos. 555 00:41:20,645 --> 00:41:22,898 He traveled to remote regions of Siberia 556 00:41:23,064 --> 00:41:26,651 to learn how to pull oil out of the ground, move it and sell it. 557 00:41:27,068 --> 00:41:29,070 And he had to motivate workers and managers 558 00:41:29,404 --> 00:41:32,449 who never needed to care about efficiency or competition. 559 00:41:38,914 --> 00:41:41,208 All these shitty local oil companies 560 00:41:41,374 --> 00:41:44,794 that, you know, just lost money and were totally inefficient. 561 00:41:45,712 --> 00:41:49,299 He turned that around. He started streamlining these companies. 562 00:41:50,217 --> 00:41:54,387 Khodorkovsky, from a business perspective, did an amazing job. 563 00:41:55,388 --> 00:41:57,724 But in those small towns in Siberia, 564 00:41:57,974 --> 00:42:00,644 a lot of the people who work there, they lost their job. 565 00:42:01,436 --> 00:42:03,813 Many local mayors were very unhappy 566 00:42:04,439 --> 00:42:07,776 and some mayors died. 567 00:42:09,110 --> 00:42:14,366 One of those Mayor's was Vladimir Petukhov of Nefteyugansk, a major Yukos hub. 568 00:42:15,158 --> 00:42:19,829 Petukhov was furious with Khodorkovsky for laying off nearly 15,000 workers, 569 00:42:20,121 --> 00:42:23,416 delays in payroll and battles overpaying local taxes. 570 00:42:24,376 --> 00:42:27,545 Khodorkovsky claimed that Petukhov was in the grip of Chechen gangsters 571 00:42:28,004 --> 00:42:30,215 and using taxes to pay bribes. 572 00:42:31,216 --> 00:42:34,261 So Khodorkovsky flew to Nefteyugansk with bags of cash 573 00:42:34,511 --> 00:42:38,014 to make direct payments to teachers, nurses and city workers. 574 00:42:38,431 --> 00:42:41,101 In protest, the mayor embarked on a hunger strike 575 00:42:41,643 --> 00:42:43,770 until, finally, a deal was cut. 576 00:42:44,562 --> 00:42:47,023 But four days later, the mayor was shot. 577 00:42:48,066 --> 00:42:52,362 I got a call. I remember I asked, "Is he alive?" 578 00:42:52,529 --> 00:42:55,991 He replied and I'll remember his words forever, 579 00:42:56,199 --> 00:42:59,828 "What do you mean alive, there's a glass full of brains that spilled out." 580 00:43:03,665 --> 00:43:07,043 Khodorkovsky killed him! Khodorkovsky! 581 00:43:10,297 --> 00:43:14,301 Petukhov? During the wild '90s he stood up for the town 582 00:43:14,718 --> 00:43:16,177 and paid a high price. 583 00:43:17,345 --> 00:43:18,972 We have a monument for him. 584 00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,937 I first went to Nefteyugansk to look at the oil industry 585 00:43:26,062 --> 00:43:28,690 weeks after the murder of the mayor. 586 00:43:30,191 --> 00:43:31,985 And Khodorkovsky was hated there 587 00:43:32,444 --> 00:43:34,404 because Khodorkovsky was already, by that time, a billionaire 588 00:43:34,529 --> 00:43:37,824 and these were the people who were, basically, unable to get food. 589 00:43:39,075 --> 00:43:42,203 I got angry, as a young journalist and I wrote what I saw. 590 00:43:43,121 --> 00:43:48,043 I don't know whether Khodorkovsky's men or he himself were involved 591 00:43:48,209 --> 00:43:51,504 in the death of the mayor. I wouldn't put it past them. 592 00:43:53,631 --> 00:43:56,634 Petukhov, the mayor, was murdered on Khodorkovsky's birthday. 593 00:43:57,135 --> 00:43:59,512 Birthdays have been interesting. 594 00:44:00,555 --> 00:44:03,141 The other famous case is Anna Politkovskaya, 595 00:44:03,266 --> 00:44:08,271 the crusading journalist who was investigating a lot of Kremlin corruption 596 00:44:09,064 --> 00:44:11,483 and she was murdered on Putin's birthday. 597 00:44:13,193 --> 00:44:17,405 If I had thought that this would end the way it did 598 00:44:17,614 --> 00:44:22,911 I would have made much more of an effort to investigate this case. 599 00:44:23,578 --> 00:44:28,541 This was 1998 and so, I was very busy with completely different things. 600 00:44:28,792 --> 00:44:31,002 And I just simply didn't have time to deal with this. 601 00:44:36,216 --> 00:44:38,259 Some observers called it a meltdown. 602 00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:40,595 Russian stocks are at their lowest levels 603 00:44:40,762 --> 00:44:44,474 since President Boris Yeltsin had heart surgery in 1996. 604 00:44:44,682 --> 00:44:47,102 The biggest concern now is that the Russian government 605 00:44:47,227 --> 00:44:49,687 will be forced to devalue the ruble. 606 00:44:52,148 --> 00:44:53,608 The ruble collapsed. 607 00:44:54,734 --> 00:44:57,237 The situation was a hot mess. 608 00:44:59,114 --> 00:45:01,449 So I came out to our regions. 609 00:45:02,700 --> 00:45:05,286 Out in the regions, the situation was absolutely dramatic. 610 00:45:05,453 --> 00:45:09,791 In one day, prices on all groceries tripled. 611 00:45:12,043 --> 00:45:13,753 I still remember in Nefteyugansk... 612 00:45:14,337 --> 00:45:16,464 700 people were sitting there, 613 00:45:16,631 --> 00:45:18,591 they were representatives of all the work units, 614 00:45:19,551 --> 00:45:24,055 and by law they are required to vote to reduce their own salaries. 615 00:45:26,474 --> 00:45:30,395 And I addressed the people. I said, "This is the situation. 616 00:45:31,563 --> 00:45:36,651 You need to vote for a salary reduction of 30%." 617 00:45:38,862 --> 00:45:41,531 People are asking, "When are you going to give it back to us?" 618 00:45:42,490 --> 00:45:44,367 And I said, "In one year." 619 00:45:46,202 --> 00:45:47,662 And they voted for the reduction. 620 00:45:52,667 --> 00:45:57,464 I still had to do very drastic staff reductions. 621 00:46:03,094 --> 00:46:05,430 You can't imagine what it's like to lay off 622 00:46:05,597 --> 00:46:07,390 literally tens of thousands of people. 623 00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:13,229 That's, well... it's real heavy. 624 00:46:18,026 --> 00:46:20,820 People who worked for me... 625 00:46:21,529 --> 00:46:27,535 They would stand at their workplace, expecting that I pay them. 626 00:46:30,079 --> 00:46:33,082 But if I don't have money, they would simply faint... 627 00:46:33,791 --> 00:46:35,543 Faint from hunger. 628 00:46:37,712 --> 00:46:39,797 And you look at this and you understand. 629 00:46:40,256 --> 00:46:43,301 "That's my responsibility. That's my responsibility. 630 00:46:43,635 --> 00:46:45,595 Either I'm going to figure a way out 631 00:46:46,262 --> 00:46:48,765 or I don't even know what to do." 632 00:46:50,141 --> 00:46:53,186 At that moment, you understand that business is not a game, 633 00:46:53,353 --> 00:46:55,063 not in the least bit a game. 634 00:47:02,612 --> 00:47:07,408 I understood that I owed people a lot. 635 00:47:07,659 --> 00:47:12,455 And that I needed somehow to give it back to them. 636 00:47:24,384 --> 00:47:28,054 He was opening schools. You know, his foundation was doing a lot. 637 00:47:28,763 --> 00:47:31,140 He was the entrepreneur with the vision. 638 00:47:32,058 --> 00:47:34,394 The type of entrepreneur that Russia needed 639 00:47:35,103 --> 00:47:37,772 to create this new economy. 640 00:47:38,439 --> 00:47:43,903 And he immediately brought in Western know-how, new technology, 641 00:47:44,028 --> 00:47:49,075 and, in a few years, built one of the best oil companies in the world. 642 00:48:15,977 --> 00:48:20,690 Khodorkovsky's work at Yukos paid off when the ruble rose along with oil prices. 643 00:48:21,441 --> 00:48:24,569 Just after the turn of the century, the Russian economy was booming, 644 00:48:25,361 --> 00:48:26,904 powered in large part, by oil. 645 00:48:27,780 --> 00:48:31,868 That was a business victory, but it was also a moment of political opportunity. 646 00:48:32,952 --> 00:48:34,704 Who would take credit for the turnaround? 647 00:48:35,204 --> 00:48:37,707 The former KGB agent-turned-politician? 648 00:48:38,166 --> 00:48:42,253 Or the ruthless oligarch whose attention was quickly turning to politics? 649 00:48:42,962 --> 00:48:46,758 I did not expect to see in him this interest in politics. 650 00:48:47,383 --> 00:48:50,678 Even today, all other Russian oligarchs 651 00:48:50,887 --> 00:48:53,181 they all distance themselves from politics, saying, 652 00:48:53,348 --> 00:48:56,392 "No no, no, no way, we aren't interested in politics, 653 00:48:56,601 --> 00:49:00,063 just business, just business, we're just interested in money." 654 00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:02,899 And Khodorkovsky suddenly began to talk about politics. 655 00:49:03,733 --> 00:49:07,945 Modern society can only be built on the basis of democracy. 656 00:49:08,363 --> 00:49:13,534 Although democracy has a hard time taking hold in our country 657 00:49:13,701 --> 00:49:16,496 because we didn't have democracy for 500 years. 658 00:49:16,913 --> 00:49:20,708 It seems like some fantasy to us but in reality it's not. 659 00:49:21,167 --> 00:49:25,922 Khodorkovsky is an interesting man, because now he has all this money... 660 00:49:27,924 --> 00:49:30,635 he started thinking about, you know, 661 00:49:31,010 --> 00:49:33,680 what's next, what is my role in society? 662 00:49:33,930 --> 00:49:35,890 And this is where he clashes with Putin. 663 00:49:36,849 --> 00:49:41,646 His intolerance for personal criticism has been growing 664 00:49:42,313 --> 00:49:43,940 with each passing year. 665 00:49:44,524 --> 00:49:47,443 You could say the government is bad. 666 00:49:47,985 --> 00:49:52,907 You might say that communism is better than capitalism. 667 00:49:53,074 --> 00:49:54,659 He couldn't care less. 668 00:49:55,702 --> 00:49:58,371 But say that Putin is ridiculous, 669 00:50:01,874 --> 00:50:03,501 and you'll have serious problems. 670 00:50:04,961 --> 00:50:09,340 Rub them out in the outhouse! Rub them out in the outhouse! 671 00:50:10,258 --> 00:50:14,387 There are rumors that Putin in particular didn't like one program 672 00:50:15,221 --> 00:50:21,102 where he was portrayed as a midget man who became the ruler of the country 673 00:50:21,853 --> 00:50:24,772 due to the power of magic. 674 00:50:26,023 --> 00:50:28,151 At some point, magic disappear 675 00:50:28,317 --> 00:50:32,029 and people see this midget man for what he is. 676 00:50:35,908 --> 00:50:41,748 Yeltsin could be angry at some program but there were no reprisals. 677 00:50:42,248 --> 00:50:47,044 Putin and his people had an entirely different attitude towards TV. 678 00:50:48,629 --> 00:50:51,591 Putin was the product of television. They made him. 679 00:50:52,842 --> 00:50:56,304 He was absolutely nobody, I mean, nobody ever heard of Vladimir Putin. 680 00:50:58,431 --> 00:51:02,769 The fact that television could actually help make him into president 681 00:51:02,935 --> 00:51:04,771 within six months... 682 00:51:05,396 --> 00:51:08,900 I think was enough for him to understand the real power. 683 00:51:12,278 --> 00:51:15,990 If TV could make his reputation, it could also break it. 684 00:51:23,039 --> 00:51:25,583 We've swum to the hatch. 685 00:51:26,501 --> 00:51:28,085 Seven months after Putin became president, 686 00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:31,589 a terrible underwater explosion ripped apart the Kursk, 687 00:51:32,048 --> 00:51:33,549 a Russian nuclear submarine. 688 00:51:34,467 --> 00:51:38,137 As the nation anxiously watched the efforts to rescue a few survivors, 689 00:51:39,096 --> 00:51:42,558 Putin was photographed hosting a barbeque at a seaside resort. 690 00:51:43,226 --> 00:51:47,230 For ten days, relentless TV news reports shredded Putin's reputation 691 00:51:47,396 --> 00:51:50,566 by chronicling the incompetence and dishonesty of the government. 692 00:51:53,694 --> 00:51:56,781 To recover, Putin rushed to talk to the widows of the sailors. 693 00:51:58,241 --> 00:52:00,201 But rather than take responsibility, 694 00:52:00,535 --> 00:52:03,412 he looked to administer blame on television. 695 00:52:03,663 --> 00:52:07,917 There are people on TV today who are shouting more than everybody else 696 00:52:08,084 --> 00:52:12,380 and for the past ten years have been destroying this army and fleet 697 00:52:12,755 --> 00:52:15,716 where people die today. 698 00:52:16,133 --> 00:52:19,720 Putin, as somebody who was both born and bred in the Soviet Union, 699 00:52:19,887 --> 00:52:21,848 but more importantly, bred by the KGB, 700 00:52:21,973 --> 00:52:25,518 has this very conspiratorial view of the world, 701 00:52:25,643 --> 00:52:29,272 and that view of the world suggests that people don't have any free will. 702 00:52:29,856 --> 00:52:32,608 And history, therefore, doesn't have any free will, 703 00:52:32,775 --> 00:52:35,528 that everything is pre-planned, plotted by somebody, 704 00:52:35,695 --> 00:52:40,324 and so, he immediately assumed that this was a plot to subvert him. 705 00:52:42,118 --> 00:52:44,912 That was a very emotional, I think, genuine outburst. 706 00:52:45,997 --> 00:52:49,667 Vladimir Putin, President of Russia. There's lots... 707 00:52:49,834 --> 00:52:54,755 We remember to this day his participation in Larry King's TV show. 708 00:52:55,214 --> 00:52:57,258 What happened with the submarine? 709 00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:01,137 When he was asked what happened with the submarine, he said... 710 00:53:01,387 --> 00:53:02,471 "It sank." 711 00:53:03,973 --> 00:53:05,057 ...and he smiled. 712 00:53:06,350 --> 00:53:10,438 When he felt those were serious blows to his reputation, 713 00:53:11,772 --> 00:53:14,150 he decided that it would be much more efficient 714 00:53:16,944 --> 00:53:20,907 to force the mass media to work for him. 715 00:53:21,657 --> 00:53:24,535 -Thank you, Mr. President. -Thank you, Larry. 716 00:53:25,620 --> 00:53:28,080 Putin's command of the media was quickly evident. 717 00:53:28,748 --> 00:53:31,500 Even in the TV images of one of the grieving relatives 718 00:53:31,918 --> 00:53:34,795 whose voice was silenced with eerie efficiency. 719 00:53:35,504 --> 00:53:37,006 I can't say anything! 720 00:53:37,214 --> 00:53:41,010 Yes, I'm saying it all openly and in front of the whole world. 721 00:53:51,938 --> 00:53:53,064 Bastards! 722 00:53:55,608 --> 00:53:58,903 Putin and his people have a KGB background. 723 00:53:59,445 --> 00:54:00,905 I am talking about control. 724 00:54:01,447 --> 00:54:04,325 What you don't control is a potential threat. 725 00:54:04,909 --> 00:54:06,911 What you control is safe. 726 00:54:09,121 --> 00:54:10,665 Everything should be controlled. 727 00:54:12,291 --> 00:54:16,420 The first thing they did was to establish control over TV 728 00:54:16,671 --> 00:54:19,840 because uncontrolled TV was a threat. 729 00:54:21,467 --> 00:54:22,718 After the Kursk episode, 730 00:54:22,969 --> 00:54:27,181 Putin's government took over the two major TV networks controlled by oligarchs. 731 00:54:28,683 --> 00:54:29,809 Facing the prospect of prison, 732 00:54:30,184 --> 00:54:33,354 Gusinsky and his chief executive, Malashenko, fled the country. 733 00:54:34,188 --> 00:54:35,773 Berezovsky soon followed. 734 00:54:37,817 --> 00:54:41,904 When Boris Berezovsky fell out with Putin in such a spectacular and public way, 735 00:54:42,238 --> 00:54:44,949 he fled to London and I had quite a lot to do with him. 736 00:54:45,324 --> 00:54:48,119 He asked me if I would write his biography for him. 737 00:54:48,285 --> 00:54:50,705 So I spoke to him over the years, you know, socially, 738 00:54:50,830 --> 00:54:55,209 and at times, I recorded the conversations, as well. 739 00:54:57,962 --> 00:55:01,674 I remember well my last meeting with Vladimir Putin, 740 00:55:01,799 --> 00:55:05,678 after the tragedy of the Kursk submarine. 741 00:55:06,512 --> 00:55:09,849 And the most terrible for me, during our meeting, 742 00:55:10,891 --> 00:55:14,854 he told me that I tried to destroy him. 743 00:55:15,229 --> 00:55:19,150 After that I recognize that he is really... not good man. 744 00:55:20,484 --> 00:55:24,196 The first time I recognized him not as my friend. 745 00:55:24,363 --> 00:55:26,699 But as a wrong man. 746 00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:37,793 Well, he kicked Berezovsky out and took control of the first channel. 747 00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:41,797 He kicked Gusinsky out of the country and took control of NTV. 748 00:55:43,424 --> 00:55:44,592 He had the airwaves. 749 00:55:50,639 --> 00:55:53,309 This was a successful year for Russia, 750 00:55:53,684 --> 00:55:56,312 both in domestic affairs and foreign policy. 751 00:55:56,937 --> 00:56:01,358 Russia is being treated with more trust and respect in the world. 752 00:56:02,610 --> 00:56:04,528 Once he controlled the narrative and the image, 753 00:56:04,987 --> 00:56:07,782 which is everything in Russia, he could take then control 754 00:56:07,907 --> 00:56:11,827 of the commanding heights of the economy, the oil and take on the biggest tycoon. 755 00:56:14,371 --> 00:56:16,665 Putin had a very valid point. 756 00:56:16,916 --> 00:56:20,127 Half of the parliament is on the payroll of Khodorkovsky. 757 00:56:20,419 --> 00:56:25,674 Many of the top people in the oil ministry are people appointed by the oligarchs. 758 00:56:26,175 --> 00:56:27,885 He thinks, you know, "What is this? 759 00:56:28,219 --> 00:56:31,055 If I want to be a real president, I need to have my own people 760 00:56:31,305 --> 00:56:34,058 and I need to get these people out of politics." 761 00:56:36,185 --> 00:56:39,021 It was said at the time that you were busy courting, 762 00:56:39,146 --> 00:56:42,274 or even buying influence in the, in the Duma. 763 00:56:42,650 --> 00:56:46,737 We only dealt with our industry-related problems. 764 00:56:48,197 --> 00:56:54,161 Did this require buying MPs? 765 00:56:54,578 --> 00:56:59,291 It was exactly as it happens in the United States Congress. 766 00:56:59,416 --> 00:57:04,380 "Will you support our campaign in the next election?" 767 00:57:07,424 --> 00:57:10,553 We felt that the country should gradually develop 768 00:57:10,678 --> 00:57:12,263 in the direction of openness. 769 00:57:13,222 --> 00:57:17,393 Business should develop from the point of view of greater transparency. 770 00:57:17,768 --> 00:57:22,064 We thought that if Putin decides to proceed in this direction, 771 00:57:22,398 --> 00:57:27,194 then we would get serious competitive advantages 772 00:57:27,361 --> 00:57:29,572 on international markets. 773 00:57:43,252 --> 00:57:48,048 Khodorkovsky decided to make Yukos a public company 774 00:57:48,549 --> 00:57:50,176 after realizing it would be worth more. 775 00:57:50,342 --> 00:57:53,095 He will get richer and 776 00:57:53,554 --> 00:58:00,394 he had this idea about merging with some oil major. 777 00:58:01,687 --> 00:58:03,272 They were negotiating with Exxon. 778 00:58:05,983 --> 00:58:09,320 Khodorkovsky invited in the head of Exxon Mobil and said, 779 00:58:09,570 --> 00:58:13,866 "Look, my company is open, transparent, why don't we have a partnership, 780 00:58:13,991 --> 00:58:16,243 we can be a massive player on the world market." 781 00:58:16,619 --> 00:58:19,246 If you are Vladimir Putin sitting in the Kremlin at a time 782 00:58:19,371 --> 00:58:22,875 when the world is going to war over oil, 783 00:58:23,292 --> 00:58:27,630 and you have your least favorite oligarch saying to the Americans, 784 00:58:27,796 --> 00:58:29,632 "I've got lots of oil, do you want to come and share it?" 785 00:58:29,757 --> 00:58:31,467 You know, it's like a slap in the face. 786 00:58:35,054 --> 00:58:38,891 The authorities must have seen him as a threat at some point, 787 00:58:39,516 --> 00:58:45,231 because the man has political views, he has goals, he's got some vision, 788 00:58:45,397 --> 00:58:46,899 and he also has the money. 789 00:58:47,066 --> 00:58:48,025 He's dangerous. 790 00:58:53,614 --> 00:58:55,699 The struggle for power surfaced with an oil deal. 791 00:58:55,908 --> 00:59:00,246 A small company, Northern Oil, paid seven million dollars 792 00:59:00,454 --> 00:59:03,624 for the rights to an oil field which it sold soon after 793 00:59:03,999 --> 00:59:08,587 for 600 million dollars to a government company, Rosneft. 794 00:59:09,713 --> 00:59:12,299 The man at the center of the deal was Igor Sechin, 795 00:59:12,549 --> 00:59:14,385 a close friend of Vladimir Putin. 796 00:59:15,135 --> 00:59:16,679 Were kickbacks involved? 797 00:59:17,388 --> 00:59:19,682 Khodorkovsky wanted to make an issue of the deal 798 00:59:19,890 --> 00:59:23,060 at an upcoming nationally televised forum on corruption. 799 00:59:40,244 --> 00:59:42,121 The night before the meeting, 800 00:59:42,288 --> 00:59:45,791 he dragged me outside to talk about Northern Oil. 801 00:59:48,210 --> 00:59:51,463 He asked me, "How do you think Putin is going to react to this?" 802 00:59:51,630 --> 00:59:55,718 I said that he would react calmly if he had nothing to do with it, 803 00:59:56,302 --> 01:00:00,723 and terribly if he had gotten a part of the bribe. 804 01:00:04,268 --> 01:00:05,894 I understood it was a big risk. 805 01:00:07,104 --> 01:00:11,900 But this isn't the first risk I have taken in my life at that point. 806 01:00:23,037 --> 01:00:25,539 Putin had asked Russia's biggest businessmen 807 01:00:25,664 --> 01:00:29,752 to a roundtable discussion on television on the theme of corruption. 808 01:00:30,294 --> 01:00:34,048 Most of the guys who took part had the wisdom 809 01:00:34,214 --> 01:00:36,342 to figure out that it was a little bit of a fig leaf. 810 01:00:38,385 --> 01:00:41,597 Look - Putin shakes hands with each person one by one. 811 01:00:44,391 --> 01:00:46,977 But Khodorkovsky came armed with a whole pile of slides, 812 01:00:47,186 --> 01:00:50,856 which reported that Russians felt that corruption existed 813 01:00:51,190 --> 01:00:53,525 at the highest levels of government. 814 01:00:56,779 --> 01:00:58,822 I couldn't bring myself to watch it. 815 01:00:59,990 --> 01:01:01,909 ...the scale of corruption in Russia .... 816 01:01:02,201 --> 01:01:04,119 I said, "Vladimir Vladimirovich. 817 01:01:04,286 --> 01:01:08,040 Does it mean anything to you that 25% of the population believe 818 01:01:08,248 --> 01:01:11,043 that you are among those taking bribes?" 819 01:01:13,462 --> 01:01:15,089 That was, of course, edited out. 820 01:01:16,340 --> 01:01:18,342 There are probably other factors. 821 01:01:18,467 --> 01:01:19,927 And they then got into the discussion 822 01:01:20,052 --> 01:01:22,679 of what Khodorkovsky thought was a dodgy deal. 823 01:01:23,180 --> 01:01:27,226 Now you've mentioned Rosneft and the deal with Sibneft... 824 01:01:27,601 --> 01:01:31,188 This Northern Oil deal was Putin happy that you mentioned it? 825 01:01:32,064 --> 01:01:34,400 Oh, he was thrilled. 826 01:01:36,402 --> 01:01:39,363 This was the first time he went for a head-to-head conflict. 827 01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:42,032 He wouldn't discuss the transaction. 828 01:01:43,617 --> 01:01:44,576 He started with, 829 01:01:44,743 --> 01:01:45,994 "And you? 830 01:01:48,038 --> 01:01:50,833 I know that you have excess reserves." 831 01:01:51,041 --> 01:01:54,086 There are state companies that need to increase their reserves, 832 01:01:54,294 --> 01:01:56,171 that don't have enough reserves. 833 01:01:57,214 --> 01:02:02,261 While some other oil companies like, for example, Yukos, have extra reserves. 834 01:02:02,594 --> 01:02:07,808 How it got them is the question within the scope of today's discussion. 835 01:02:08,142 --> 01:02:11,728 "And you had problems with the tax authorities, 836 01:02:11,937 --> 01:02:13,313 though you did resolve them." 837 01:02:15,149 --> 01:02:17,484 ...including the questions 838 01:02:17,693 --> 01:02:22,614 of paying and not paying taxes. 839 01:02:22,906 --> 01:02:26,535 We've already discussed that at one point, right? Recently. 840 01:02:28,370 --> 01:02:29,830 That was unexpected. 841 01:02:30,330 --> 01:02:32,207 But these issues came to be somehow. 842 01:02:35,669 --> 01:02:38,922 You saw from the facial expression of Putin, 843 01:02:39,173 --> 01:02:41,341 he was really, really angry. 844 01:02:41,884 --> 01:02:45,095 Especially, coming from Khodorkovsky. 845 01:02:49,600 --> 01:02:52,478 That is why I pass the puck back to you. 846 01:02:55,772 --> 01:03:01,403 In my life, I had overstepped so many different lines 847 01:03:03,864 --> 01:03:05,365 that for me, 848 01:03:08,035 --> 01:03:11,538 this wasn't something out of the ordinary. 849 01:03:12,706 --> 01:03:14,708 Well, okay. So the guy's not happy. 850 01:03:16,126 --> 01:03:17,085 So what? 851 01:03:21,340 --> 01:03:25,135 There were all these warning signs. Many of his people were arrested. 852 01:03:27,679 --> 01:03:32,392 It had happened with Gusinsky before me, and with Berezovsky. 853 01:03:33,435 --> 01:03:35,979 It's really standard practice. 854 01:03:38,565 --> 01:03:41,777 It was hard for me to understand why Khodorkovsky was smiling 855 01:03:42,152 --> 01:03:45,531 or how he could say that what was happening was standard practice. 856 01:03:46,698 --> 01:03:49,326 Just four months after the TV battle with Putin, 857 01:03:49,701 --> 01:03:53,956 a top security official at Yukos, Alexei Pichugin, was arrested 858 01:03:54,122 --> 01:03:57,376 and tried in secret in connection with a series of contract killings, 859 01:03:58,001 --> 01:04:00,587 which would include the murder of mayor Petukhov. 860 01:04:02,297 --> 01:04:04,716 That was strange because five years earlier, 861 01:04:04,883 --> 01:04:07,219 the case had been dropped when the likely killers, 862 01:04:07,469 --> 01:04:09,805 two Chechen gangsters, had been murdered. 863 01:04:11,765 --> 01:04:14,059 Now the Kremlin was pushing a fresh story. 864 01:04:15,394 --> 01:04:18,647 The Chechens were replaced with new killers who suddenly confessed 865 01:04:18,981 --> 01:04:20,983 and testified that Pichugin ordered the hit. 866 01:04:21,733 --> 01:04:24,319 When Pichugin refused to implicate Khodorkovsky, 867 01:04:24,820 --> 01:04:27,406 Pichugin claimed he was dosed with psychotropic drugs. 868 01:04:28,407 --> 01:04:30,325 When that didn't work, the new trigger men claimed 869 01:04:30,450 --> 01:04:34,871 the order to kill the mayor had come from Pichugin's boss, Leonid Nevzlin. 870 01:04:37,207 --> 01:04:39,251 Then Pichugin was arrested. 871 01:04:39,459 --> 01:04:42,337 We didn't even understand at first that this had anything to do with us. 872 01:04:42,879 --> 01:04:46,300 It made me tense. I started looking into the issue, 873 01:04:46,508 --> 01:04:49,469 I couldn't get any results. And then - Lebedev. 874 01:04:57,728 --> 01:04:59,479 Then it all became clear. 875 01:05:00,897 --> 01:05:02,774 Khodorkovsky didn't want to give in, 876 01:05:02,899 --> 01:05:04,735 and he didn't want to leave his people behind. 877 01:05:05,110 --> 01:05:09,489 As for me, I did warn him that I wasn't up to it, 878 01:05:09,615 --> 01:05:12,034 and it would be best for me to leave. 879 01:05:12,784 --> 01:05:14,328 And he agreed. 880 01:05:16,121 --> 01:05:17,247 If they want... 881 01:05:18,415 --> 01:05:21,335 that I go to prison, 882 01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:27,341 given the system of behavior that has just been demonstrated to us, 883 01:05:27,466 --> 01:05:29,343 this is easy, they are welcome. 884 01:05:29,885 --> 01:05:31,261 They can do it. 885 01:05:42,564 --> 01:05:45,567 Nastya, this is not supposed to be eaten. There's a good one... 886 01:05:48,945 --> 01:05:52,407 The investigators and the prosecutors have let me down so far. 887 01:05:55,452 --> 01:05:57,037 They can't dig up anything. 888 01:05:58,955 --> 01:06:00,749 As soon as I finish my trips to the regions, 889 01:06:00,916 --> 01:06:04,252 I will start congratulating the company with the new year. 890 01:06:05,712 --> 01:06:08,548 One evening I visited him at home, at his request. 891 01:06:08,715 --> 01:06:11,468 I consulted him about what he should do if he were to be summoned for questioning. 892 01:06:14,262 --> 01:06:16,390 I told him then, "Mikhail Borisovich... 893 01:06:17,140 --> 01:06:21,561 They're going to arrest you. You've got to leave." 894 01:06:22,729 --> 01:06:24,398 And he answered me then, 895 01:06:24,898 --> 01:06:27,651 "Anton, you can't even imagine what you have just said, 896 01:06:28,276 --> 01:06:31,321 what you are offering to me. 897 01:06:31,780 --> 01:06:33,448 This is just unacceptable for me." 898 01:06:37,744 --> 01:06:41,665 I understood by then that the masks had been cast off 899 01:06:42,624 --> 01:06:47,504 and I had very little time to appeal to the people. 900 01:06:48,380 --> 01:06:54,344 I believe that it's possible to build a normal democratic society in our country 901 01:06:54,553 --> 01:06:58,265 but for that, someone needs to be the first not to be afraid. 902 01:06:58,932 --> 01:07:00,183 I am not afraid. 903 01:07:02,769 --> 01:07:08,066 I took a trip around the country to tell the people what was happening. 904 01:07:08,442 --> 01:07:10,360 And to urge them to take part in the election 905 01:07:10,527 --> 01:07:13,238 in favor of the democratic forces. 906 01:07:23,331 --> 01:07:28,086 So we flew into Novosibirsk, landed, for refueling. 907 01:07:34,676 --> 01:07:37,137 I look out and I see that the entire airfield 908 01:07:37,387 --> 01:07:40,974 is surrounded by men in black uniforms. 909 01:07:41,933 --> 01:07:46,480 I'm thinking to myself, "Here we are. Very well. Okay." 910 01:08:08,210 --> 01:08:11,004 ...Mikhail Khodorkovsky seized at gunpoint 911 01:08:11,213 --> 01:08:12,214 by Russian special forces... 912 01:08:12,380 --> 01:08:15,425 ...Khodorkovsky is locked up in an overcrowded Russian prison. 913 01:08:23,225 --> 01:08:27,103 After I was arrested I was told that my colleague, partner, 914 01:08:27,479 --> 01:08:29,105 Platon Lebedev, 915 01:08:29,731 --> 01:08:34,152 had been thrown in the dungeon and told that he would never leave there. 916 01:08:35,695 --> 01:08:38,824 So I said, "All right, then you're going to have 917 01:08:38,990 --> 01:08:41,493 two corpses on your hands. 918 01:08:41,868 --> 01:08:44,329 Until you let Platon Lebedev out from the dungeon, 919 01:08:44,579 --> 01:08:47,457 I'm going to go on a dry hunger strike." 920 01:08:49,793 --> 01:08:54,464 A dry hunger strike is when you refuse not only food, but water as well. 921 01:08:55,590 --> 01:08:58,343 What's important about such a hunger strike is that it's very quick. 922 01:08:58,844 --> 01:09:04,140 Either they fulfill your demands quickly or that's it. 923 01:09:09,229 --> 01:09:13,233 Did your hunger strike succeed? Was Lebedev let out of the dungeon? 924 01:09:13,984 --> 01:09:16,736 If they hadn't released him, I wouldn't be sitting here talking with you. 925 01:09:17,112 --> 01:09:18,530 I don't joke around. 926 01:09:28,915 --> 01:09:32,377 I remember calling my editor and said, they just arrested Khodorkovsky. 927 01:09:32,627 --> 01:09:35,088 And the response from London was, 928 01:09:35,297 --> 01:09:37,090 "Ah, well, it couldn't have happened to a better man." 929 01:09:37,507 --> 01:09:40,635 I don't want to paint Khodorkovsky as an angel, he wasn't. 930 01:09:41,136 --> 01:09:45,181 But I was rather horrified when I saw Vladimir Putin 931 01:09:45,348 --> 01:09:46,933 holding a copy of my story, 932 01:09:47,100 --> 01:09:51,479 saying, "Look, even the Western press said he was a terrible man." 933 01:09:54,065 --> 01:09:57,819 It was very clear that this is not about finding the truth 934 01:09:58,111 --> 01:10:02,115 or finding what happened. It was about putting papers together, 935 01:10:02,574 --> 01:10:07,162 so that it looks like it's a real case, but in fact it's not a real case. 936 01:10:12,000 --> 01:10:13,251 Can I give you the letter? 937 01:10:14,794 --> 01:10:16,254 Look - Maria Logan. 938 01:10:17,130 --> 01:10:19,174 As someone with a legal background in Russia, 939 01:10:19,341 --> 01:10:22,802 I had to try to interpret and explain this to American lawyers. 940 01:10:24,012 --> 01:10:26,264 Khodorkovsky and Lebedev were put in a cage 941 01:10:26,556 --> 01:10:29,643 to show everyone who is the boss here. 942 01:10:30,894 --> 01:10:34,731 Khodorkovsky was accused of tax evasion, embezzlement, all these things. 943 01:10:35,106 --> 01:10:39,861 But, it's particularly hard to say whether or not he's guilty 944 01:10:40,028 --> 01:10:43,365 because the law was in such a fluid state in those years. 945 01:10:43,990 --> 01:10:46,826 All the other oligarchs did exactly the same things, 946 01:10:47,327 --> 01:10:49,829 and they were free to keep doing it. 947 01:10:52,082 --> 01:10:55,794 During the first trial, the Russian attorneys were trying to pretend 948 01:10:55,961 --> 01:10:57,796 like they're defending an ordinary case. 949 01:10:58,672 --> 01:10:59,881 That was a mistake. 950 01:11:00,298 --> 01:11:04,344 I demonstrated that I was participating in a legal procedure. 951 01:11:04,552 --> 01:11:08,139 But it was not a legal procedure. 952 01:11:08,932 --> 01:11:10,558 The state prosecution... 953 01:11:11,351 --> 01:11:14,396 The Russian prosecutors think the more papers they put together, 954 01:11:14,562 --> 01:11:15,897 the more it looks legitimate. 955 01:11:16,314 --> 01:11:20,360 There were, like, hundreds of volumes of material of basically nothing. 956 01:11:21,111 --> 01:11:23,780 For example, they used company telephone directory 957 01:11:24,239 --> 01:11:26,616 as an evidence of the criminal enterprise. 958 01:11:29,828 --> 01:11:33,707 There were two lines of attack, if you will. 959 01:11:34,249 --> 01:11:36,584 One line was on Khodorkovsky. 960 01:11:37,335 --> 01:11:41,631 On top of that, they mounted an attack on the Yukos company. 961 01:11:47,887 --> 01:11:51,975 Yukos as a company was accused of not paying taxes for six years. 962 01:11:53,268 --> 01:11:56,396 Khodorkovsky was discussing payment of back taxes 963 01:11:56,521 --> 01:12:00,942 that would settle Yukos's debts to the state. 964 01:12:01,693 --> 01:12:04,362 And when Yukos agreed to that, then another demand would come in. 965 01:12:04,529 --> 01:12:06,239 The demand would be higher this time. 966 01:12:06,614 --> 01:12:10,285 So it wasn't a case of wanting to recoup the taxes that hadn't been paid. 967 01:12:10,452 --> 01:12:13,413 It was a case of wanting to destroy Yukos. 968 01:12:16,583 --> 01:12:18,585 There was a bankruptcy auction. 969 01:12:19,586 --> 01:12:23,965 And I was denied access to it with no basically legitimate reason. 970 01:12:24,716 --> 01:12:26,801 Can I show you the letter? No? 971 01:12:28,720 --> 01:12:32,557 ...recognize as participants of the auction, 972 01:12:32,807 --> 01:12:35,143 the LLC, Baikal Finance Group... 973 01:12:35,727 --> 01:12:39,105 A mysterious newly created company, Baikal Finance Group, 974 01:12:39,481 --> 01:12:41,691 suddenly emerged to bid for Yukos. 975 01:12:42,567 --> 01:12:44,235 But Baikal had no assets 976 01:12:44,444 --> 01:12:48,406 and its headquarters turned out to be a vodka bar two hours outside of Moscow. 977 01:12:53,161 --> 01:12:54,954 When Baikal won the auction, 978 01:12:55,205 --> 01:12:57,874 it sold Yukos to the government controlled, Rosneft. 979 01:12:58,750 --> 01:12:59,918 ROSNEFT 980 01:13:00,043 --> 01:13:02,295 Rosneft is the state oil company and it is run 981 01:13:02,420 --> 01:13:06,257 by one of Putin's closest friends, Igor Sechin. 982 01:13:08,384 --> 01:13:10,178 Sechin was Putin's man 983 01:13:10,595 --> 01:13:14,390 and when Putin renationalized a lot of companies, 984 01:13:14,599 --> 01:13:16,309 he created a new class. 985 01:13:17,143 --> 01:13:19,646 Oligarch 2.0. 986 01:13:25,151 --> 01:13:26,653 You all know perfectly well 987 01:13:26,820 --> 01:13:29,906 how privatization took place in the early '90s. 988 01:13:30,865 --> 01:13:34,661 Many market players of that time received state property 989 01:13:35,912 --> 01:13:39,290 worth many billions. 990 01:13:40,125 --> 01:13:44,587 Today, the state, using absolutely legal market tools, 991 01:13:44,796 --> 01:13:47,382 establishes its interests. 992 01:13:48,842 --> 01:13:50,218 I think this is quite normal. 993 01:13:55,056 --> 01:13:57,016 ROSNEFT 994 01:14:07,819 --> 01:14:11,281 In most countries in the world, oil companies are owned by the state. 995 01:14:11,656 --> 01:14:12,782 Nothing wrong with that. 996 01:14:13,241 --> 01:14:15,118 Good news for the Russians. 997 01:14:15,660 --> 01:14:18,580 Yeah. That's how 99 percent of the people saw it. 998 01:14:28,798 --> 01:14:32,093 KHORDOVSKY, GO TO PRISON! 999 01:14:32,468 --> 01:14:35,763 He stole from the state, not from me. From the state. 1000 01:14:35,930 --> 01:14:37,015 And we are the state. 1001 01:14:38,474 --> 01:14:41,811 PUTIN, PROTECT US FROM PEOPLE LIKE KHODORKOVSKY 1002 01:14:44,939 --> 01:14:47,567 I swear, that in exercising the powers 1003 01:14:47,901 --> 01:14:50,069 of the President of the Russian Federation... 1004 01:14:50,570 --> 01:14:53,865 The fact that the oligarchs were so reviled 1005 01:14:54,032 --> 01:14:56,826 and resented by the Russian people 1006 01:14:57,160 --> 01:15:00,496 was a fantastically useful tool for Putin. 1007 01:15:01,581 --> 01:15:03,875 Putin very famously and publicly declared, 1008 01:15:04,334 --> 01:15:07,212 "I'm going to destroy the oligarchs as a class." 1009 01:15:07,921 --> 01:15:10,548 And every Russian would know where that quotation came from 1010 01:15:10,757 --> 01:15:12,884 because Stalin said, very famously, 1011 01:15:13,218 --> 01:15:16,846 "I'm going to destroy the rich peasants as a class." 1012 01:15:17,305 --> 01:15:20,350 And when he did bring the oligarchs to heel, 1013 01:15:20,683 --> 01:15:21,935 it was incredibly popular. 1014 01:15:27,482 --> 01:15:30,401 What he said to Khodorkovsky and to the country, 1015 01:15:30,568 --> 01:15:32,487 is that nothing belongs to you. 1016 01:15:32,737 --> 01:15:35,156 That you have no legitimate right to it. 1017 01:15:35,615 --> 01:15:39,661 We control everything and we can take it away from you, if you cross us. 1018 01:15:49,254 --> 01:15:51,339 In the first trial, they could have given him a maximum of ten. 1019 01:15:51,464 --> 01:15:54,050 The prosecution asked for ten. The court gave him nine. 1020 01:15:56,094 --> 01:16:02,809 -Have you lost faith in this country? -I lost it the day we elected Putin. 1021 01:16:06,020 --> 01:16:10,942 We will fight to free him because he was imprisoned for God knows what. 1022 01:16:11,776 --> 01:16:14,821 We still can't understand what they were saying. 1023 01:16:29,627 --> 01:16:31,671 They put me into a rail car. 1024 01:16:33,131 --> 01:16:34,632 And off we went. 1025 01:16:55,403 --> 01:16:57,989 Based on the number of lunch boxes, 1026 01:16:58,406 --> 01:17:00,199 you can have an idea of where they're taking you, 1027 01:17:00,825 --> 01:17:03,411 because you get one lunch box per day. 1028 01:17:04,203 --> 01:17:07,749 I counted seven lunches in there. 1029 01:17:07,957 --> 01:17:08,875 Where?!? 1030 01:17:39,280 --> 01:17:43,159 This was a heavy place, right on the border of the Chinese desert. 1031 01:17:43,910 --> 01:17:46,037 It felt like Mars. 1032 01:17:50,249 --> 01:17:51,542 "Rise at 6:45. 1033 01:17:52,835 --> 01:17:56,381 Breakfast is what time is left. I have an hour to pack up, 1034 01:17:56,547 --> 01:17:59,050 including exercise, the inevitable shaving 1035 01:17:59,467 --> 01:18:02,804 and listening to official news on state channels. 1036 01:18:04,472 --> 01:18:06,849 It's just that every morning I think of my children. 1037 01:18:07,558 --> 01:18:11,437 They would be getting ready to go to their "work" just as I was. 1038 01:18:17,860 --> 01:18:19,070 And your kids grow up... 1039 01:18:21,280 --> 01:18:24,492 My son got married, my daughter is starting college. 1040 01:18:25,493 --> 01:18:28,371 The younger ones just started school and all that without me around. 1041 01:18:28,955 --> 01:18:30,748 I'm afraid they'll finish it without me as well. 1042 01:18:31,541 --> 01:18:34,919 My wife promises me she'll know how to explain that to them. 1043 01:18:36,462 --> 01:18:38,214 My parents are not getting younger. 1044 01:18:48,433 --> 01:18:52,937 The hardest thing in prison routine is being unable to predict one's future. 1045 01:18:55,273 --> 01:18:56,899 The guards are well aware of that 1046 01:18:57,233 --> 01:18:59,944 and they use it for psychological pressure." 1047 01:19:11,497 --> 01:19:15,835 Do you think that being in prison gave you special insight into Putin 1048 01:19:15,960 --> 01:19:17,211 and the people around him? 1049 01:19:18,087 --> 01:19:18,921 Yes. 1050 01:19:20,840 --> 01:19:23,176 The way that the criminals think 1051 01:19:23,342 --> 01:19:27,472 is exactly the way that the criminal group around Putin thinks. 1052 01:19:27,930 --> 01:19:29,932 It's a criminal mentality. 1053 01:19:31,601 --> 01:19:37,857 In the criminal world, building relations starts with the use of force, 1054 01:19:38,065 --> 01:19:40,318 because everything is built on force. 1055 01:19:40,443 --> 01:19:44,572 I use force against you, and I see how you react. 1056 01:19:46,157 --> 01:19:50,495 If you resist, if we're of equal force, 1057 01:19:50,995 --> 01:19:52,288 now we can talk. 1058 01:19:53,164 --> 01:19:56,250 If you want to achieve something in prison, 1059 01:19:57,043 --> 01:19:58,920 you've got to put your life on the line. 1060 01:20:07,178 --> 01:20:09,180 My people told me that 1061 01:20:09,555 --> 01:20:13,267 the head of my legal department at Yukos, Vasily Aleksanyan, 1062 01:20:13,392 --> 01:20:17,355 had been put in jail, too. 1063 01:20:19,774 --> 01:20:25,238 He spent a year there and it turned out he was HIV-positive. 1064 01:20:27,532 --> 01:20:32,203 Have I blown up a train? Have I killed 200 people? 1065 01:20:32,828 --> 01:20:34,080 What the...? 1066 01:20:34,330 --> 01:20:38,668 How can you justify what is going on here? 1067 01:20:43,339 --> 01:20:46,551 People from the prosecutor's office came to him and told him, 1068 01:20:47,426 --> 01:20:48,678 "We know that you're gravely ill. 1069 01:20:49,262 --> 01:20:53,307 Testify against Khodorkovsky and we will release you." 1070 01:20:54,517 --> 01:20:56,602 He said no, that would be false testimony. 1071 01:20:59,939 --> 01:21:03,859 We demanded that he be transferred to a civilian hospital. 1072 01:21:05,528 --> 01:21:06,487 They refused. 1073 01:21:09,031 --> 01:21:12,577 And I said, "I announce a hunger strike 1074 01:21:12,785 --> 01:21:18,457 until a decision is made on his transfer to a normal civilian hospital." 1075 01:21:20,543 --> 01:21:22,587 People need to understand that you're ready to croak. 1076 01:21:23,254 --> 01:21:25,965 If you're ready to croak, you can get something out of them. 1077 01:21:35,683 --> 01:21:38,269 They satisfied my demand after ten days. 1078 01:21:40,855 --> 01:21:42,523 In the end he got full blown AIDS. 1079 01:21:43,482 --> 01:21:47,987 From stage 1 to stage 4 in one year. 1080 01:21:50,448 --> 01:21:52,575 They released him and he died soon after. 1081 01:21:53,951 --> 01:21:55,620 Of course, this was murder. 1082 01:22:12,136 --> 01:22:14,639 Former oil tycoon, Mikhail Khodorkovsky, 1083 01:22:14,805 --> 01:22:18,017 who was jailed for embezzlement and tax evasion in 2003, 1084 01:22:18,184 --> 01:22:19,268 is back in court. 1085 01:22:19,602 --> 01:22:23,814 New charges brought against him could see his term extended until 2017. 1086 01:22:31,155 --> 01:22:32,156 The second trial was announced 1087 01:22:32,323 --> 01:22:36,577 when Khodorkovsky was coming up to the point where he might get parole. 1088 01:22:36,702 --> 01:22:40,373 It seems fairly clear Putin did not want him to get parole. 1089 01:22:40,831 --> 01:22:42,583 As for Khodorkovsky, 1090 01:22:43,167 --> 01:22:45,544 I believe that a thief should sit in jail. 1091 01:22:50,800 --> 01:22:54,929 They accused me of stealing all the oil that Yukos had produced 1092 01:22:55,096 --> 01:22:57,807 in the entire time that I had worked at Yukos, 1093 01:22:58,224 --> 01:23:00,142 plus another 70 million tons. 1094 01:23:04,480 --> 01:23:06,982 The second trial was a sequel in black comedy. 1095 01:23:07,650 --> 01:23:10,486 In the first trial, the government convicted Khodorkovsky 1096 01:23:10,695 --> 01:23:12,947 for not paying taxes on the oil he sold. 1097 01:23:13,572 --> 01:23:16,325 In the second, the government claimed he had never sold the oil. 1098 01:23:16,575 --> 01:23:17,785 He had stolen it. 1099 01:23:18,536 --> 01:23:20,663 But if he had stolen it, where did he put it? 1100 01:23:21,497 --> 01:23:23,958 And if he never sold it, why did he owe the taxes? 1101 01:23:25,918 --> 01:23:32,800 The idea that Yukos stole from themselves all the oil that was mined was just wild. 1102 01:23:35,344 --> 01:23:41,934 Being accused of physically stealing 350 million tons of oil 1103 01:23:42,226 --> 01:23:45,229 is not only something that is impossible to prove, 1104 01:23:45,730 --> 01:23:48,149 but something that is impossible to even imagine. 1105 01:23:48,858 --> 01:23:55,656 It's a set of railroad cars that encircles the Earth three times on the equator. 1106 01:23:59,702 --> 01:24:03,330 So, even people who aren't lawyers understood it. 1107 01:24:06,834 --> 01:24:08,711 -Is it not clear? -Yes, it is. 1108 01:24:08,878 --> 01:24:11,672 What I did in the second trial was, I said, "Guys! 1109 01:24:12,965 --> 01:24:16,552 We understand that there's me and there's you - you are actors! 1110 01:24:18,262 --> 01:24:20,848 You look like a court, but you aren't a court. 1111 01:24:20,973 --> 01:24:23,392 You look like a prosecutor, but you're not a prosecutor. 1112 01:24:23,768 --> 01:24:25,144 And I will troll you, 1113 01:24:25,394 --> 01:24:29,940 mock you, as much as procedure allows me to do. 1114 01:24:30,107 --> 01:24:34,069 I'm going to show that you're idiots. You are puppets. 1115 01:24:34,820 --> 01:24:36,280 You are nobodies." 1116 01:24:37,198 --> 01:24:39,492 The prosecutor, Lakhtin - 1117 01:24:40,117 --> 01:24:43,579 I told my lawyers, "No need to interrupt him - 1118 01:24:43,788 --> 01:24:45,623 just let him talk, and let us laugh our heads off." 1119 01:24:46,332 --> 01:24:48,542 He was creating a good mood in us. 1120 01:24:48,793 --> 01:24:50,586 He is just 1121 01:24:51,629 --> 01:24:52,838 a fantastic idiot. 1122 01:24:55,132 --> 01:24:58,886 The number of people who became his supporters 1123 01:24:59,053 --> 01:25:01,055 increased by geometric progression. 1124 01:25:01,680 --> 01:25:06,811 Maybe that's a traditional Russian historical habit: 1125 01:25:07,019 --> 01:25:12,608 When the power starts trampling on him, people resent it and sympathize. 1126 01:25:13,150 --> 01:25:16,195 Freedom! Freedom! 1127 01:25:26,038 --> 01:25:28,415 Shame! 1128 01:25:33,295 --> 01:25:36,674 Freedom to Mikhail Khodorkovsky! 1129 01:25:37,842 --> 01:25:39,927 Freedom to Khodorkovsky! 1130 01:25:44,014 --> 01:25:46,559 Shame! 1131 01:25:47,184 --> 01:25:50,479 It's very important for me how this trial will finish 1132 01:25:50,646 --> 01:25:52,481 because according to it, 1133 01:25:52,606 --> 01:25:56,235 I'll know which country me and my children will live in. 1134 01:25:56,652 --> 01:25:59,488 Putin is very afraid of Khodorkovsky. 1135 01:26:00,739 --> 01:26:03,659 And he wants him to be in the prison forever. 1136 01:26:04,743 --> 01:26:06,287 And this is against Russia. 1137 01:26:07,162 --> 01:26:08,914 This is against Russia future. 1138 01:26:09,790 --> 01:26:13,711 And it means that this is not a country of law. 1139 01:26:14,420 --> 01:26:15,713 This is a country of dictatorship. 1140 01:26:33,314 --> 01:26:38,527 I remember, a few days or weeks after my arrest 1141 01:26:38,736 --> 01:26:41,697 I was informed that President Putin had decided that I would have to, 1142 01:26:41,864 --> 01:26:46,368 as I was told, "eat prison slop" for eight years. 1143 01:26:47,244 --> 01:26:50,581 Now seven years have passed. 1144 01:26:51,749 --> 01:26:54,793 Nonetheless, I'd like to speak about hope... 1145 01:26:55,377 --> 01:26:58,631 Hope that Russia can become a country of laws and freedom. 1146 01:27:02,676 --> 01:27:06,430 I am far from an ideal person, but I am a person with ideals. 1147 01:27:06,680 --> 01:27:09,183 And like anyone, it is difficult for me to live in prison, 1148 01:27:09,433 --> 01:27:11,143 and I don't want to die here. 1149 01:27:11,518 --> 01:27:14,647 But if I have to, I will not hesitate. 1150 01:27:15,731 --> 01:27:18,233 The things I believe in are worth dying for. 1151 01:27:28,953 --> 01:27:33,374 When he was in jail, he suddenly gained, through his stamina, through his calm, 1152 01:27:33,499 --> 01:27:35,918 through his resolution that moral authority 1153 01:27:36,043 --> 01:27:37,586 and respect of the people-- 1154 01:27:37,753 --> 01:27:40,631 I wouldn't say he has legitimacy as a political figure, 1155 01:27:40,965 --> 01:27:42,758 but I think the perception of him 1156 01:27:43,842 --> 01:27:47,554 has made sort of 180-degree turn. 1157 01:27:47,888 --> 01:27:51,433 It's not nice to say, but prison changed him for the better. 1158 01:27:52,726 --> 01:27:57,439 He developed a certain degree of compassion and humanity. 1159 01:28:07,491 --> 01:28:11,161 "Following the footsteps of many prisoners, known and unknown, 1160 01:28:11,578 --> 01:28:13,580 I must say thank you to the prison. 1161 01:28:14,164 --> 01:28:18,877 It gave me time to form a new outlook on many aspects of life. 1162 01:28:21,755 --> 01:28:27,469 As a co-owner of Yukos, I had to make enormous efforts to protect this property. 1163 01:28:29,430 --> 01:28:32,975 I had to close my eyes and put up with many things, 1164 01:28:33,308 --> 01:28:37,187 all for the sake of my personal wealth, preserving and increasing it. 1165 01:28:37,813 --> 01:28:41,567 I did not control this wealth alone - it controlled me as well. 1166 01:28:44,153 --> 01:28:49,074 I'm becoming a common person to whom what matters is being, not having. 1167 01:28:49,783 --> 01:28:54,621 This is probably the only right choice possible, the choice of freedom. 1168 01:28:58,250 --> 01:29:01,670 Prison is a place of anti-culture, of anti-civilization. 1169 01:29:01,920 --> 01:29:03,881 Here, good is bad, lies are truth. 1170 01:29:05,424 --> 01:29:08,427 Here, good people feel deeply unhappy 1171 01:29:08,719 --> 01:29:11,889 because they can't do a thing inside this hideous system. 1172 01:29:17,394 --> 01:29:20,064 The most important thing is self-discipline. 1173 01:29:20,355 --> 01:29:23,025 Either you develop, or you deteriorate." 1174 01:29:25,527 --> 01:29:30,074 If you break, then there's nothing for us to talk about. 1175 01:29:31,575 --> 01:29:33,535 Just lie down and be a footstool before the throne. 1176 01:29:49,218 --> 01:29:50,886 There was a period when Putin, 1177 01:29:51,095 --> 01:29:53,138 because of the constitution, had to step down as president 1178 01:29:53,263 --> 01:29:55,140 and become prime minister, 1179 01:29:55,307 --> 01:29:58,435 and his colleague, Dmitry Medvedev, became president. 1180 01:29:58,602 --> 01:30:03,148 And there was a lot of talk at that time that perhaps Medvedev might be a rival... 1181 01:30:03,690 --> 01:30:05,984 power base to Putin's. 1182 01:30:06,777 --> 01:30:08,237 It turned out to be completely incorrect 1183 01:30:08,362 --> 01:30:10,781 because at the end of Medvedev's term as president, 1184 01:30:11,365 --> 01:30:15,119 he simply stepped down and Putin came back into power. 1185 01:30:30,551 --> 01:30:34,596 Until 2008, I think Russia was on the right track, 1186 01:30:34,972 --> 01:30:36,473 and Putin was okay. 1187 01:30:38,183 --> 01:30:42,396 Then Putin decided to become more authoritarian. 1188 01:30:43,730 --> 01:30:47,025 He also decided that the country could not live without him. 1189 01:30:48,694 --> 01:30:50,154 That's what power does to you. 1190 01:30:50,279 --> 01:30:51,905 You think you are the country, 1191 01:30:52,072 --> 01:30:57,035 and the country thinks without Putin, there is no Russia. 1192 01:30:57,327 --> 01:31:01,165 Russia without Putin! 1193 01:31:01,665 --> 01:31:05,335 More than a hundred thousand protesters flooded Moscow's Bolotnaya Square 1194 01:31:05,919 --> 01:31:08,338 to protest Putin's return to the presidency. 1195 01:31:09,590 --> 01:31:13,385 The protesters, at least, could imagine Russia without Putin. 1196 01:31:16,221 --> 01:31:18,807 Fascists! 1197 01:31:18,932 --> 01:31:24,354 Fight! Fight and don't disperse! Russia will be free! 1198 01:31:26,481 --> 01:31:29,735 If those people had decided to march on the Kremlin, 1199 01:31:29,860 --> 01:31:31,320 Putin wouldn't have had a chance. 1200 01:31:33,113 --> 01:31:37,576 At that moment, that crowd was not ready to do that. 1201 01:31:49,463 --> 01:31:51,215 I felt that I was in prison forever. 1202 01:31:51,882 --> 01:31:54,176 I have to admit, my friends thought so too. 1203 01:31:57,387 --> 01:32:00,557 The only way we could potentially get him out of jail 1204 01:32:00,724 --> 01:32:06,104 is not through judicial system in Russia but through some sort of negotiations 1205 01:32:06,313 --> 01:32:09,858 involving Western leaders putting pressure on Putin. 1206 01:32:12,444 --> 01:32:15,697 How can we make it so Khodorkovsky being in prison is worse for Putin? 1207 01:32:16,448 --> 01:32:18,325 So it reaches the boiling point? 1208 01:32:20,827 --> 01:32:25,666 To turn him from a domestic issue into an international one. 1209 01:32:31,171 --> 01:32:34,216 The Winter Olympic Games in Sochi... 1210 01:32:34,967 --> 01:32:36,468 The host nation of Russia 1211 01:32:36,593 --> 01:32:41,265 is continuing a well-timed release of high-profile prisoners. 1212 01:32:41,974 --> 01:32:45,143 Pussy Riot band member, Nadezhda Tolokonnikova, 1213 01:32:45,310 --> 01:32:48,355 has been freed as part of President Putin's amnesty. 1214 01:32:50,482 --> 01:32:54,444 Putin really wanted to see Western leadership coming to Sochi. 1215 01:32:54,611 --> 01:32:57,114 And that pardon was his gesture 1216 01:32:57,572 --> 01:33:01,743 in anticipation of gesture back from the Western leaders. 1217 01:33:05,122 --> 01:33:07,332 How did you find out that you were going to be released? 1218 01:33:08,041 --> 01:33:09,001 On TV. 1219 01:33:11,169 --> 01:33:13,297 Will Khodorkovsky remain in prison? 1220 01:33:13,547 --> 01:33:16,675 Putin was speaking and he said, "I'm going to sign an edict." 1221 01:33:17,634 --> 01:33:19,970 He's already spent more than ten years in prison. 1222 01:33:21,138 --> 01:33:24,474 This is a serious punishment. 1223 01:33:25,475 --> 01:33:30,105 He's citing humanitarian reasons, his mother is ill. 1224 01:33:38,655 --> 01:33:44,161 It was crucial for him that as a result, I go abroad. 1225 01:33:52,878 --> 01:33:58,967 He had a certain sentimentality about the situation 1226 01:33:59,092 --> 01:34:00,802 that I had with my mom. 1227 01:34:01,011 --> 01:34:06,141 That my mom had been told in August of 2013 that she had a year left to live. 1228 01:34:24,618 --> 01:34:28,288 We did have that time together and that's important. 1229 01:35:22,384 --> 01:35:25,095 I hadn't met him until he was released from prison. 1230 01:35:26,555 --> 01:35:27,848 We had some vodka. 1231 01:35:29,933 --> 01:35:31,810 It was-- it was really unreal. 1232 01:35:32,894 --> 01:35:39,359 I ask you to regard me as a symbol that the efforts of civil society 1233 01:35:40,068 --> 01:35:44,114 can bring about the release of even those people 1234 01:35:44,281 --> 01:35:48,285 that nobody imagined could ever be released. 1235 01:35:49,244 --> 01:35:55,625 Can you forgive all of those people who took away ten years of your life? 1236 01:35:58,628 --> 01:36:02,507 It would probably be a sin against the truth to say that... 1237 01:36:08,763 --> 01:36:12,476 ...that I don't have any feelings about it at all. 1238 01:36:13,685 --> 01:36:17,439 But I've worked very seriously on myself. 1239 01:36:18,064 --> 01:36:19,274 One has to look forward. 1240 01:36:23,320 --> 01:36:26,323 He was really thinking what his next public step 1241 01:36:26,448 --> 01:36:27,782 in that fight should be. 1242 01:36:28,033 --> 01:36:30,785 And then he said that I'm ready to make the public move. 1243 01:36:31,328 --> 01:36:32,662 And he wanted to go to Kiev. 1244 01:36:34,206 --> 01:36:36,666 In Kiev hundreds of thousands of demonstrators 1245 01:36:36,791 --> 01:36:38,502 who demanded the government resign 1246 01:36:38,835 --> 01:36:43,507 for rejecting closer ties with the EU in favor of better relations with Russia. 1247 01:36:46,218 --> 01:36:48,887 Demonstrators pulled back under a hail of bullets 1248 01:36:49,221 --> 01:36:50,931 fired by government forces. 1249 01:36:55,143 --> 01:36:56,144 Mikhail Khodorkovsky. 1250 01:37:00,732 --> 01:37:04,778 I was shown and told what the authorities did here. 1251 01:37:05,862 --> 01:37:10,450 They did it with the consent of the Russian authorities. 1252 01:37:12,536 --> 01:37:13,662 I wanted to cry. 1253 01:37:16,373 --> 01:37:17,332 This is horrifying. 1254 01:37:20,210 --> 01:37:24,381 Thank you! Thank you! 1255 01:37:25,465 --> 01:37:31,137 Fight and you will overcome. Godspeed. 1256 01:37:32,806 --> 01:37:33,765 Thank you. 1257 01:37:45,443 --> 01:37:49,614 In 2014, Khodorkovsky moved to London and founded Open Russia, 1258 01:37:50,323 --> 01:37:52,659 an umbrella group that funds anti-Putin efforts 1259 01:37:52,867 --> 01:37:55,662 and invests in long range visions for democracy in Russia. 1260 01:37:56,955 --> 01:37:59,416 The money for Open Russia comes from Khodorkovsky. 1261 01:38:00,292 --> 01:38:03,461 Somehow, even while serving hard time in Siberia, 1262 01:38:03,795 --> 01:38:07,299 he or his friends managed to protect some of his fortune. 1263 01:38:08,341 --> 01:38:12,304 I've got several hundred million dollars, around 400 million. 1264 01:38:12,637 --> 01:38:17,726 I got another 100 million or so that was recently released in Ireland. 1265 01:38:18,143 --> 01:38:19,603 So I've got enough money. 1266 01:38:25,734 --> 01:38:28,403 While in Moscow, I spent a bit of time with Open Russia. 1267 01:38:29,321 --> 01:38:32,407 On the ground, their efforts were less than effective. 1268 01:38:33,408 --> 01:38:36,703 Volunteers didn't have strong enough glue to paste up their posters. 1269 01:38:37,662 --> 01:38:41,791 And Open Russia teleconferences in which Khodorkovsky beamed himself into Moscow 1270 01:38:42,250 --> 01:38:45,462 only attracted the interest of a few dozen supporters. 1271 01:38:45,879 --> 01:38:48,632 Khodorkovsky is not a forgotten figure. 1272 01:38:49,174 --> 01:38:50,967 But you can't touch him. 1273 01:38:51,551 --> 01:38:55,472 So he becomes more and more, a TV image. 1274 01:38:55,847 --> 01:39:00,644 Okay, not TV, he is not shown on TV. Computer generated image, okay? 1275 01:39:01,102 --> 01:39:05,565 And it's not good, of course, for a politician. 1276 01:39:06,274 --> 01:39:09,194 -Virtual Khodorkovsky? -Virtual-- virtual Khodorkovsky, exactly. 1277 01:39:10,320 --> 01:39:16,201 Being outside of Russia, he really cannot influence the situation here. 1278 01:39:17,202 --> 01:39:19,996 He wants to be Jesus Christ but, you know, he has a past. 1279 01:39:28,129 --> 01:39:31,257 Over time, complicated stories become more simple. 1280 01:39:32,175 --> 01:39:35,136 Shades of grey separate into pools of black and white. 1281 01:39:36,721 --> 01:39:39,099 That simplicity can serve a political purpose. 1282 01:39:40,475 --> 01:39:44,771 In 1998, there were many suspects in the brutal killing of Mayor Petukhov. 1283 01:39:45,397 --> 01:39:47,982 From Chechen gangsters to the mayor's wife. 1284 01:39:49,150 --> 01:39:51,903 Today, in Nefteyugansk, there is only one. 1285 01:39:52,404 --> 01:39:53,279 Who killed him? 1286 01:39:53,947 --> 01:39:56,658 According to one of the versions, Khodorkovsky, 1287 01:39:56,783 --> 01:39:58,368 by the order of Khodorkovsky. 1288 01:39:58,952 --> 01:40:02,038 -Are there any other versions? -I haven't heard any. 1289 01:40:03,498 --> 01:40:06,501 Such a person... and they shot him. 1290 01:40:06,918 --> 01:40:07,836 Unbelievable. 1291 01:40:08,670 --> 01:40:10,171 And who shot him? 1292 01:40:10,672 --> 01:40:12,424 A true thief! 1293 01:40:13,633 --> 01:40:14,884 He was shot. 1294 01:40:15,301 --> 01:40:16,720 By the order of Khodorkovsky. 1295 01:40:17,887 --> 01:40:18,847 We know about it. 1296 01:40:19,055 --> 01:40:22,434 Khodorkovsky shot him himself? 1297 01:40:23,059 --> 01:40:26,229 You know... He ordered it. 1298 01:40:27,772 --> 01:40:28,940 Because... 1299 01:40:30,608 --> 01:40:32,861 That day I watched a report... 1300 01:40:34,070 --> 01:40:38,199 Murder as a Present. Coming up next. 1301 01:40:41,619 --> 01:40:45,373 Why did Petukhov cross the oil giant? 1302 01:40:46,082 --> 01:40:48,293 He was shot and killed 15 years ago. 1303 01:40:48,793 --> 01:40:50,795 On the same day, in Moscow 1304 01:40:51,004 --> 01:40:54,716 the head of Yukos, Mikhail Khodorkovsky, 1305 01:40:54,883 --> 01:40:56,426 celebrated his 35th birthday. 1306 01:40:59,512 --> 01:41:01,681 After I came to Great Britain, 1307 01:41:01,890 --> 01:41:05,602 they charged me with organizing Petukhov's murder. 1308 01:41:06,186 --> 01:41:10,440 They figured that they would use the last card they had. 1309 01:41:11,191 --> 01:41:16,488 That is, if I do return, I would certainly immediately, 1310 01:41:16,821 --> 01:41:19,282 in the airport, be arrested. 1311 01:41:19,657 --> 01:41:23,953 And then life imprisonment, guaranteed, no question. 1312 01:41:33,421 --> 01:41:37,217 Khodorkovsky's story marks the beginning of a journey 1313 01:41:37,967 --> 01:41:41,471 which ultimately will result in violence. 1314 01:41:42,096 --> 01:41:43,515 And this is where we are today, 1315 01:41:43,890 --> 01:41:47,727 where violence is the only tool at your disposal 1316 01:41:47,852 --> 01:41:52,690 for resolving social contradictions or political conflicts. 1317 01:41:54,234 --> 01:41:56,694 I'd like to issue a warning: 1318 01:41:56,861 --> 01:41:59,864 The job of a traitor is one of the most dangerous in the world. 1319 01:41:59,989 --> 01:42:04,536 Those who choose it rarely survive until senior age. 1320 01:42:04,911 --> 01:42:07,330 A second piece of advice, a more general one: 1321 01:42:07,539 --> 01:42:10,959 Don't choose England as your next country of residence. 1322 01:42:11,751 --> 01:42:13,294 Maybe it's the climate, 1323 01:42:13,503 --> 01:42:15,004 but there have been too many strange incidents 1324 01:42:15,129 --> 01:42:16,631 with grave outcomes there in recent years. 1325 01:42:16,923 --> 01:42:19,759 People hang themselves, get poisoned, 1326 01:42:19,968 --> 01:42:23,137 have helicopter crashes and fall out of windows simply on an industrial scale. 1327 01:42:26,182 --> 01:42:28,268 In England, over the past 15 years, 1328 01:42:28,434 --> 01:42:31,604 there have been a growing number of mysterious deaths related to Russia. 1329 01:42:32,605 --> 01:42:35,775 Khodorkovsky's lawyer was killed in a helicopter crash. 1330 01:42:36,359 --> 01:42:39,195 The anti-Putin Russian spy, Alexander Litvinenko, 1331 01:42:39,529 --> 01:42:43,324 was poisoned to death six months after he delivered an affidavit 1332 01:42:43,658 --> 01:42:45,535 that Russian secret services had paid 1333 01:42:45,743 --> 01:42:47,579 for the murder of the mayor of Nefteyugansk. 1334 01:42:48,913 --> 01:42:50,623 Boris Berezovsky was found dead, 1335 01:42:51,332 --> 01:42:54,460 his neck suspended by his own cashmere scarf. 1336 01:42:55,086 --> 01:42:56,796 But the coroner was unable to conclude 1337 01:42:56,921 --> 01:42:59,966 whether the hanging was a suicide or murder. 1338 01:43:01,175 --> 01:43:04,345 Berezovsky became consumed by this obsession 1339 01:43:04,929 --> 01:43:08,516 that he was going to bring down Putin from London. 1340 01:43:10,143 --> 01:43:14,230 I would be very sad if Khodorkovsky went the same way that Boris Berezovsky went. 1341 01:43:17,859 --> 01:43:20,153 I mean, your life may be at risk in London. 1342 01:43:21,487 --> 01:43:23,239 Did you have a conversation with your wife 1343 01:43:23,364 --> 01:43:24,782 about continuing to speak out? 1344 01:43:26,075 --> 01:43:28,620 I have talks like that with my wife all the time. 1345 01:43:35,710 --> 01:43:38,796 To say that she is happy with what I'm doing, 1346 01:43:39,923 --> 01:43:41,841 that's something I can't say. 1347 01:43:45,637 --> 01:43:49,807 We've been together for 30 years, she respects what I do 1348 01:43:52,018 --> 01:43:56,898 and takes on the consequences of my activity 1349 01:43:58,066 --> 01:43:59,317 together with me. 1350 01:44:16,793 --> 01:44:17,961 Can you hear me? 1351 01:44:18,920 --> 01:44:21,923 I have invited you here tonight, my friends, 1352 01:44:22,131 --> 01:44:25,510 to tell you about the projects, 1353 01:44:25,635 --> 01:44:28,137 some long-term, some short-term, 1354 01:44:28,262 --> 01:44:30,598 but in short, this is what we have been doing. 1355 01:44:31,557 --> 01:44:32,892 The current speaker of the Russian Duma, 1356 01:44:33,059 --> 01:44:36,145 and one of the top Kremlin political aides, said publicly 1357 01:44:36,437 --> 01:44:39,440 "There's no Russia without Putin." End of quote. 1358 01:44:40,024 --> 01:44:43,444 Probably the most insulting thing I've ever heard said about my country. 1359 01:44:43,695 --> 01:44:44,988 At the end of the day all of our... 1360 01:44:45,154 --> 01:44:49,033 Vladimir Kara-Murza is a former journalist and anti-Putin political warrior. 1361 01:44:50,243 --> 01:44:51,661 He was close to John McCain 1362 01:44:51,828 --> 01:44:54,288 who asked him to be among those who carried his coffin. 1363 01:44:55,164 --> 01:44:56,916 Kara-Murza was poisoned twice, 1364 01:44:57,125 --> 01:44:59,127 while on assignment for Khodorkovsky in Russia. 1365 01:44:59,961 --> 01:45:02,630 He played a key role in passing the Magnitsky Act 1366 01:45:03,297 --> 01:45:05,174 which sanctioned certain Russian individuals 1367 01:45:05,299 --> 01:45:06,467 for human rights abuses. 1368 01:45:07,635 --> 01:45:11,556 Kara-Murza now works with Khodorkovsky to provide research and offer advice 1369 01:45:12,098 --> 01:45:15,184 to those considering sanctions on members of Putin's inner circle. 1370 01:45:15,768 --> 01:45:17,979 It would have been great for us, 1371 01:45:18,187 --> 01:45:20,440 if those who want to introduce the sanctions 1372 01:45:20,606 --> 01:45:24,485 had introduced them all at once, and as soon as possible. 1373 01:45:25,403 --> 01:45:32,243 This would have untied our hands to protect our national interests 1374 01:45:32,410 --> 01:45:36,622 by the means that we consider the most efficient. 1375 01:45:41,377 --> 01:45:44,505 Detectives came into the Open Russia office on Tuesday morning. 1376 01:45:45,006 --> 01:45:49,802 Money, credit cards were seized together with computers. 1377 01:45:54,932 --> 01:45:57,560 The Prosecutor General's office gave the command 1378 01:45:57,977 --> 01:46:00,938 to shut down our organization's website, 1379 01:46:01,064 --> 01:46:04,108 and all the websites that are mentioned on our website, 1380 01:46:04,275 --> 01:46:07,236 including my personal website, which I have as a Russian citizen. 1381 01:46:07,695 --> 01:46:09,947 And sends a letter to Twitter that says, 1382 01:46:10,156 --> 01:46:13,785 if Twitter doesn't shut down our organization's account, 1383 01:46:13,910 --> 01:46:17,163 they will shut down Twitter in Russia. 1384 01:46:17,580 --> 01:46:20,166 Open Russia has been recognized as an "undesirable organization" 1385 01:46:20,416 --> 01:46:25,296 and according to the Prosecutor General, it has no place in the online world. 1386 01:46:27,173 --> 01:46:29,884 When I see my arrows hitting their target 1387 01:46:30,134 --> 01:46:33,221 I understand that we're doing our work fairly well 1388 01:46:33,346 --> 01:46:35,556 and we need to keep on doing even more. 1389 01:46:38,184 --> 01:46:42,146 We do have a new project of Open Russia, called Dossier. 1390 01:46:42,313 --> 01:46:47,151 It takes the investigative journalism done in Russia or outside of Russia 1391 01:46:47,276 --> 01:46:48,236 and builds on that. 1392 01:46:49,695 --> 01:46:52,990 A key focus is the circle of new oligarchs surrounding Putin. 1393 01:46:54,075 --> 01:46:57,537 One of them is Yevgeny Prigozhin, nicknamed Putin's chef. 1394 01:46:58,663 --> 01:47:00,289 Following a recipe of coverts ops, 1395 01:47:00,665 --> 01:47:03,626 the chef cooks up missions for Putin all over the world. 1396 01:47:04,418 --> 01:47:06,671 Special counsel Robert Mueller accused Prigozhin 1397 01:47:06,963 --> 01:47:11,050 of launching cyber-attacks during the 2016 presidential election. 1398 01:47:11,509 --> 01:47:13,636 Others accused him of running off the books 1399 01:47:13,761 --> 01:47:16,389 military operations from Ukraine to Africa. 1400 01:47:17,223 --> 01:47:20,143 When Khodorkovsky funded a group of journalists to look into the matter, 1401 01:47:20,393 --> 01:47:21,561 they were murdered, 1402 01:47:21,894 --> 01:47:24,480 reportedly by people working for the chef. 1403 01:47:25,481 --> 01:47:29,402 We are dealing with officials' involvement 1404 01:47:29,861 --> 01:47:32,196 in the murder of journalists. 1405 01:47:33,739 --> 01:47:37,368 Back in Russia, state-controlled TV turned the story upside down, 1406 01:47:37,702 --> 01:47:41,038 blaming Khodorkovsky for not doing more to protect the journalists. 1407 01:47:41,247 --> 01:47:43,958 Let's reiterate that the person who gave the assignment 1408 01:47:44,083 --> 01:47:47,044 should have shown some responsibility. 1409 01:47:47,170 --> 01:47:50,256 That's what we think. Khodorkovsky, oh well. 1410 01:47:50,464 --> 01:47:52,341 Open Russia also helped to expose a plot 1411 01:47:52,550 --> 01:47:55,511 to kill a Russian double agent in Salisbury, England. 1412 01:47:55,845 --> 01:47:58,431 The attack deployed a military chemical weapon 1413 01:47:58,931 --> 01:48:03,519 which badly poisoned two people and killed an innocent bystander. 1414 01:48:03,895 --> 01:48:05,646 Two members of the assassination team 1415 01:48:05,855 --> 01:48:07,523 were spotted by British surveillance cameras 1416 01:48:07,899 --> 01:48:11,194 and traced back through their drivers licenses to the GRU, 1417 01:48:11,819 --> 01:48:13,613 Russian Military Intelligence. 1418 01:48:14,238 --> 01:48:17,241 With a perfume bottle full of novichok, a deadly nerve agent, 1419 01:48:18,117 --> 01:48:20,494 they traveled to Salisbury on the day of the attack 1420 01:48:20,661 --> 01:48:22,413 and then fled quickly back to Russia. 1421 01:48:23,372 --> 01:48:27,043 President Putin announced, "We know these people, 1422 01:48:27,460 --> 01:48:29,545 and if I were them, I'd come to the journalists 1423 01:48:29,712 --> 01:48:31,923 and tell them about myself." 1424 01:48:32,173 --> 01:48:34,425 I assure you that there is nothing special or criminal here. 1425 01:48:34,550 --> 01:48:36,886 We will see shortly. 1426 01:48:37,220 --> 01:48:38,554 Are they civilians? 1427 01:48:38,930 --> 01:48:40,181 -What? -Are they civilians? 1428 01:48:40,431 --> 01:48:41,891 Civilians, of course. 1429 01:48:43,267 --> 01:48:46,604 They're officers and if there's an order from the Commander in Chief, 1430 01:48:46,771 --> 01:48:47,730 you have to comply. 1431 01:48:48,856 --> 01:48:49,982 What were you doing there? 1432 01:48:50,608 --> 01:48:53,569 There's a famous... Famous cathedral there... 1433 01:48:56,572 --> 01:48:57,698 ...the Salisbury Cathedral. 1434 01:48:58,241 --> 01:49:02,453 It's all funny, but on the other hand, this isn't funny at all. 1435 01:49:03,120 --> 01:49:06,749 It's all insanity: first, the person who gave the order, 1436 01:49:07,291 --> 01:49:10,378 then the insanity of Putin, who approved the order, 1437 01:49:11,337 --> 01:49:16,259 and then put those people on-air 1438 01:49:17,551 --> 01:49:19,971 thinking it would improve the situation. 1439 01:49:21,138 --> 01:49:25,184 It's famous for its 123-meter spire. 1440 01:49:25,393 --> 01:49:29,063 It's famous for its clock. 1441 01:49:29,480 --> 01:49:34,151 That interview was sort of a double message saying nothing is true, 1442 01:49:35,486 --> 01:49:39,282 and, of course, we are lying, and two fingers up to the West. 1443 01:49:39,949 --> 01:49:43,119 But we are still doing it, and it's okay to lie. 1444 01:49:43,911 --> 01:49:47,748 It's negation of facts, a negation of truth, a negation of reality. 1445 01:49:49,959 --> 01:49:52,336 How should I talk to her if she's dumb? She's got no brains! 1446 01:49:52,503 --> 01:49:53,671 Calm down! 1447 01:49:53,796 --> 01:49:56,966 Who gave her the right to throw water at me? Crazy woman! 1448 01:49:59,969 --> 01:50:01,637 What kind of campaign is Sobchak running? 1449 01:50:01,762 --> 01:50:03,472 Have you meet her? And what do you think of her? 1450 01:50:03,681 --> 01:50:05,599 We know each other quite well. 1451 01:50:06,309 --> 01:50:09,979 She was the first journalist who interviewed me 1452 01:50:10,187 --> 01:50:12,440 after I was released from jail. 1453 01:50:13,357 --> 01:50:18,946 I fully support her because she talks about democratic values. 1454 01:50:20,614 --> 01:50:23,284 The mass media are under Putin's control 1455 01:50:23,576 --> 01:50:27,038 but Putin does not regard Sobchak as dangerous 1456 01:50:27,246 --> 01:50:31,792 so he allows her to use the mass media that he controls. 1457 01:50:33,794 --> 01:50:35,296 How's the campaign going? 1458 01:50:36,213 --> 01:50:37,214 There is no campaign. 1459 01:50:37,381 --> 01:50:38,257 I understand. 1460 01:50:39,050 --> 01:50:43,929 Ms. Sobchak just invited me to... to take part in her campaign. 1461 01:50:44,555 --> 01:50:47,224 Russia will be free! 1462 01:50:47,558 --> 01:50:51,729 She's doing things which make her very few friends in the Kremlin. 1463 01:50:52,355 --> 01:50:56,192 On the other hand, we should understand that all we see 1464 01:50:56,692 --> 01:51:01,197 all this so-called campaign is a Kremlin game. 1465 01:51:03,616 --> 01:51:08,496 Everybody understands that there can only be one winner in these elections. 1466 01:51:09,038 --> 01:51:13,167 We're not talking about actually winning the elections. 1467 01:51:14,043 --> 01:51:15,461 Sobchak is going to force yet another 1468 01:51:15,586 --> 01:51:18,798 few million people in Russia to start thinking 1469 01:51:19,006 --> 01:51:22,301 about that path along which the country needs to be developing, 1470 01:51:22,426 --> 01:51:28,474 that there is an alternative to Putin. And I fully support her in this. 1471 01:51:30,810 --> 01:51:34,480 After years in prison, Khodorkovsky had learned how to play the long game. 1472 01:51:34,688 --> 01:51:37,483 RUSSIA WITHOUT PUTIN! 1473 01:51:37,691 --> 01:51:39,360 During the run of election theater, 1474 01:51:39,610 --> 01:51:42,238 he wasn't trying to back a winner in the here and now. 1475 01:51:42,571 --> 01:51:45,366 He was offering support to a number of political actors 1476 01:51:45,616 --> 01:51:48,702 who could amplify democratic principles over time. 1477 01:51:49,787 --> 01:51:51,664 It's not such big money. 1478 01:51:51,831 --> 01:51:55,167 If we're talking about the activity in Russia, 1479 01:51:55,418 --> 01:52:00,089 we're talking about hundreds of thousands, maybe low millions of dollars. 1480 01:52:00,589 --> 01:52:01,882 I've got enough money to support that. 1481 01:52:04,927 --> 01:52:06,595 Khodorkovsky wanted to speak by proxy 1482 01:52:06,846 --> 01:52:10,182 to a younger generation who'd be ready for Russia after Putin. 1483 01:52:11,225 --> 01:52:13,978 They don't watch so much TV, they surf the web, 1484 01:52:14,228 --> 01:52:17,565 a domain the state has either been unwilling or unable to control. 1485 01:52:18,566 --> 01:52:22,153 One web warrior, Alexey Navalny, is supported by Khodorkovsky. 1486 01:52:23,154 --> 01:52:25,865 Navalny is banned from TV or running for office 1487 01:52:26,240 --> 01:52:29,577 but he can get more than 20 million views on his YouTube channel. 1488 01:52:30,035 --> 01:52:35,708 Bribes, yachts, my election campaign HQs, oligarchs, prostitutes, 1489 01:52:36,041 --> 01:52:38,961 and even Russia's interference in the American election. 1490 01:52:39,253 --> 01:52:41,422 Did that make you intrigued? Alright. 1491 01:52:42,006 --> 01:52:45,217 Why do you think that Putin finds you so dangerous or threatening? 1492 01:52:45,676 --> 01:52:52,516 I think Putin is scared; he realizes that there won't be a calm, normal election 1493 01:52:52,766 --> 01:52:56,770 with 70 percent of the vote for him, if I participate. 1494 01:53:01,859 --> 01:53:05,613 Now I get arrested at every protest I go to. 1495 01:53:08,741 --> 01:53:11,285 We can say that it can't be called election, 1496 01:53:11,577 --> 01:53:15,247 and we call people to boycott it and take an active position 1497 01:53:15,581 --> 01:53:18,709 so we're not calling it a boycott, but a voter strike. 1498 01:53:18,876 --> 01:53:21,629 Strike! 1499 01:53:24,048 --> 01:53:28,844 Nemtsov! Nemtsov! Nemtsov! 1500 01:53:30,137 --> 01:53:33,474 During election season, there was a march in honor of Boris Nemtsov, 1501 01:53:33,807 --> 01:53:36,977 an opposition politician who had been murdered by mysterious gunmen 1502 01:53:37,144 --> 01:53:38,103 in front of the Kremlin, 1503 01:53:38,812 --> 01:53:41,398 just a few days before he was to release evidence 1504 01:53:41,815 --> 01:53:44,235 of Russia's involvement in violence in Ukraine. 1505 01:53:46,278 --> 01:53:51,200 Boris Nemtsov was killed, as you know, because he called Putin "fucked up." 1506 01:53:53,410 --> 01:53:57,998 And somebody adopted a decision that the punishment for such a thing is death. 1507 01:54:04,129 --> 01:54:07,091 KILLED FOR FREEDOM 1508 01:54:09,009 --> 01:54:11,053 Preparations and government rules for the march 1509 01:54:11,220 --> 01:54:13,597 made it more protest theater than protest. 1510 01:54:14,265 --> 01:54:15,724 Only certain signs were allowed, 1511 01:54:15,891 --> 01:54:18,811 and the tiny contingent from Open Russia was not permitted 1512 01:54:18,978 --> 01:54:20,437 to bring along its posters. 1513 01:54:20,604 --> 01:54:22,398 Wait, it doesn't say "Open Russia" or anything... 1514 01:54:22,565 --> 01:54:24,733 This is an emblem of an organization 1515 01:54:24,900 --> 01:54:26,860 considered undesirable in the Russian Federation. 1516 01:54:27,069 --> 01:54:28,028 Considered by whom? 1517 01:54:30,489 --> 01:54:33,242 Still, all the politicians showed up in the bitter cold. 1518 01:54:36,745 --> 01:54:40,082 The most important thing for the country's democratic development 1519 01:54:40,332 --> 01:54:43,794 is polyphony. Political polyphony. 1520 01:54:46,380 --> 01:54:50,551 I supported Ksenia Sobchak, as well as Alexey Navalny. 1521 01:54:50,968 --> 01:54:53,846 Although they sometimes had arguments between themselves. 1522 01:54:54,805 --> 01:54:58,767 Let's try to sit at a negotiation table. Let's try to join forces. 1523 01:54:58,976 --> 01:55:02,438 Because the main problem, shown by this election as well, 1524 01:55:02,855 --> 01:55:05,190 is the divisions within the opposition. 1525 01:55:05,357 --> 01:55:07,276 You were a part of this scam. 1526 01:55:07,401 --> 01:55:09,653 You are participating in this, I don't know why, 1527 01:55:09,862 --> 01:55:12,489 for money, for a position... 1528 01:55:12,698 --> 01:55:15,659 Ksenia Sobchak's family history haunted her campaign. 1529 01:55:16,577 --> 01:55:19,747 Her father was the mayor of St. Petersburg who first hired Putin. 1530 01:55:20,456 --> 01:55:22,875 Many believe Ksenia is a secret agent of the Kremlin, 1531 01:55:23,292 --> 01:55:24,960 maybe even Putin's goddaughter. 1532 01:55:27,880 --> 01:55:30,382 In Russia, where visions of the future are blocked 1533 01:55:30,591 --> 01:55:35,179 by an unchanging present under Putin, conversations turn quickly to the past. 1534 01:55:35,804 --> 01:55:39,683 Putin looks back to days of empire and wants to make Russia great again. 1535 01:55:41,560 --> 01:55:44,855 Russian liberals are nostalgic for the democratic freedoms of the '90s. 1536 01:55:46,023 --> 01:55:48,108 But it's hard for them to argue in favor of a time 1537 01:55:48,609 --> 01:55:50,861 when a handful of men controlled the economy, 1538 01:55:51,487 --> 01:55:55,282 and so many lived in fear of hunger, violence and economic chaos. 1539 01:55:56,325 --> 01:56:01,330 With such a past, wouldn't most people settle for a present under Vladimir Putin? 1540 01:56:15,678 --> 01:56:19,223 In the precious land of birches 1541 01:56:19,348 --> 01:56:22,726 To the tender whisper of rain 1542 01:56:22,935 --> 01:56:29,817 I embroidered the beloved name of the leader with pink beads 1543 01:56:30,317 --> 01:56:37,199 I embroidered Volodya's name not hiding my dearest dream 1544 01:56:37,616 --> 01:56:43,914 Listen, my dear motherland, my song is about Putin 1545 01:56:44,957 --> 01:56:51,839 Putin, Putin - we all want to marry Putin! 1546 01:56:52,464 --> 01:56:57,970 Tell us when will we finally get a chance to marry... 1547 01:56:58,512 --> 01:57:02,391 Putin! 1548 01:57:03,934 --> 01:57:05,018 Yes... Vladimir Vladimirovich.... 1549 01:57:05,144 --> 01:57:07,688 Alexey Navalny is not allowed at the election. 1550 01:57:07,855 --> 01:57:09,440 My question is why? 1551 01:57:09,606 --> 01:57:14,445 Are those in power afraid of the honest competition? 1552 01:57:15,320 --> 01:57:16,613 Is this a democracy or not? 1553 01:57:17,322 --> 01:57:20,075 Let's ask ourselves: what is democracy? 1554 01:57:20,367 --> 01:57:24,830 It's a subject of serious and deep discussion. 1555 01:57:25,205 --> 01:57:28,709 But I can assure you that the power has never been afraid of anyone 1556 01:57:28,917 --> 01:57:29,877 and isn't afraid of anyone. 1557 01:57:31,044 --> 01:57:37,968 Our take on the pseudo-election on March 18 is simple: action. 1558 01:57:38,427 --> 01:57:41,597 Any active stand. But not on your sofa. 1559 01:57:48,937 --> 01:57:52,900 I'm used to practicing what I preach. 1560 01:57:53,150 --> 01:57:57,529 I can't really walk onto the territory of a Russian Embassy, 1561 01:57:57,696 --> 01:58:02,159 because that can result in some unnecessary scandal. 1562 01:58:02,659 --> 01:58:06,622 So we found a place where the election takes place outside the embassy. 1563 01:58:11,168 --> 01:58:12,961 I ruined my ballot, 1564 01:58:13,879 --> 01:58:17,341 saying there was no choice. 1565 01:58:17,508 --> 01:58:19,384 #SICKANDTIRED OF PUTIN 1566 01:58:29,394 --> 01:58:32,773 In Russia's election theater, everyone knows how the story will end. 1567 01:58:34,191 --> 01:58:37,194 Some actors play along and others improvise off the script. 1568 01:58:38,612 --> 01:58:40,614 But for now, outside of the big cities, 1569 01:58:41,156 --> 01:58:45,118 audiences seem happy enough with the fairy tale promoted by Putin. 1570 01:58:45,452 --> 01:58:47,079 STRONG PRESIDENT STRONG RUSSIA! 1571 01:58:47,204 --> 01:58:50,457 No one else can replace him. Putin, only Putin. 1572 01:58:50,666 --> 01:58:51,959 We want stability. 1573 01:58:52,543 --> 01:58:53,919 We don't want revolutions. 1574 01:58:55,295 --> 01:58:57,923 Definitely! And only for Putin! 1575 01:58:58,423 --> 01:59:01,885 He managed to drag such a country out of such a dump! 1576 01:59:04,346 --> 01:59:06,932 Darya, you're my soulmate Darya, you're so beautiful 1577 01:59:07,099 --> 01:59:10,894 I took a shot of vodka and started dancing 1578 01:59:11,478 --> 01:59:12,896 In far off Krasnokamensk, 1579 01:59:13,021 --> 01:59:15,232 where Khodorkovsky spent so many years in prison, 1580 01:59:15,566 --> 01:59:18,777 election theater has the folksy flair of a high school musical. 1581 01:59:20,028 --> 01:59:23,115 Everyone roots for a happy ending in a story scripted 1582 01:59:23,240 --> 01:59:24,992 by the self-appointed man of the moment, 1583 01:59:25,492 --> 01:59:28,453 who claims to have saved them from the villains of the past. 1584 01:59:31,206 --> 01:59:35,919 The entire country will vote for Putin. It will definitely be him. 1585 01:59:36,545 --> 01:59:39,172 Because... after... 1586 01:59:40,340 --> 01:59:43,093 Boris Nikolayevich Yeltsin screwed up so much. 1587 01:59:44,303 --> 01:59:45,262 Horror. 1588 01:59:46,138 --> 01:59:48,974 So much to put back in order. 1589 01:59:51,184 --> 01:59:54,021 And Gorbachev started it. 1590 01:59:58,817 --> 02:00:00,027 Thank you! 1591 02:00:01,361 --> 02:00:03,739 You are our common team. 1592 02:00:03,989 --> 02:00:06,283 And I am a member of your team. 1593 02:00:06,950 --> 02:00:11,788 And everybody who voted today is our big national team. 1594 02:00:14,541 --> 02:00:17,628 It is very important to preserve this unity, my dear friends. 1595 02:00:18,086 --> 02:00:23,842 It is very important to win over those who might have voted for other candidates. 1596 02:00:25,510 --> 02:00:28,597 After Putin's next term, can you imagine that he will step down 1597 02:00:28,722 --> 02:00:30,724 or do you think he will just keep going forever? 1598 02:00:31,850 --> 02:00:32,893 Who knows? 1599 02:00:37,022 --> 02:00:41,443 Russia! Russia! 1600 02:00:42,027 --> 02:00:43,862 Russia! 1601 02:00:44,363 --> 02:00:46,573 Putin is now 18 years in power. 1602 02:00:47,199 --> 02:00:51,453 He has this group of friends around him who are now fabulously rich 1603 02:00:51,578 --> 02:00:53,914 and, of course, they don't want to see him go. 1604 02:00:55,332 --> 02:00:59,419 Their whole wealth comes only from him. 1605 02:01:02,089 --> 02:01:03,966 It's very hard to get out of this. 1606 02:01:11,181 --> 02:01:13,016 What do you think is Putin's worst nightmare? 1607 02:01:13,934 --> 02:01:18,021 He's walking the halls of the Kremlin Palace. 1608 02:01:18,480 --> 02:01:20,315 The telephones are turned off. 1609 02:01:21,525 --> 02:01:22,567 Nobody picks them up. 1610 02:01:24,236 --> 02:01:27,864 And in the reception office there is a secretary, 1611 02:01:28,448 --> 02:01:30,659 but the secretary's telephone is also turned off. 1612 02:01:32,202 --> 02:01:36,039 And he knows that any second they're going to come. 1613 02:01:39,209 --> 02:01:42,254 I think that is his most terrifying 1614 02:01:42,963 --> 02:01:45,590 and in fact, his most real nightmare. 1615 02:01:50,512 --> 02:01:53,056 It's a gangster model of capitalism. 1616 02:01:53,807 --> 02:01:56,560 For Putin there is a horrible feeling 1617 02:01:56,685 --> 02:02:00,230 that at any moment the system might fall apart. 1618 02:02:03,734 --> 02:02:06,611 Putin today, in the eyes of the people around him, 1619 02:02:07,154 --> 02:02:12,784 as Bulgakov once said in the famous Master and Margarita, 1620 02:02:12,909 --> 02:02:15,412 "He is not only mortal, he is potentially mortal at any moment." 1621 02:02:23,628 --> 02:02:27,174 I wondered how Khodorkovsky could think that Putin was weak or fearful. 1622 02:02:28,759 --> 02:02:30,761 After all, in the struggle between the two men, 1623 02:02:31,553 --> 02:02:33,096 Khodorkovsky had lost. 1624 02:02:34,931 --> 02:02:38,018 But while in prison, Khodorkovsky learned that you can sometimes win 1625 02:02:38,560 --> 02:02:39,853 when you are willing to lose everything. 1626 02:02:41,229 --> 02:02:44,608 The darker the night, the brighter the stars. 1627 02:03:06,546 --> 02:03:10,092 What I noticed myself, as a result of my years in prison, 1628 02:03:10,467 --> 02:03:12,594 I now have a different sense of time. 1629 02:03:13,637 --> 02:03:17,641 Nowadays, I end up misunderstood 1630 02:03:17,891 --> 02:03:21,770 when I say something will happen "soon." 1631 02:03:22,187 --> 02:03:25,774 People start to say, "Khodorkovsky said it would happen this year." 1632 02:03:26,399 --> 02:03:30,779 No, soon means in five years, maybe ten. That's what soon is. 1633 02:03:33,115 --> 02:03:34,574 I live in the future. 1634 02:03:45,293 --> 02:03:48,839 I want to go back and change things in Russia. 140690

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