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I liked the oil industry.
I liked it because of its scale.
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I like the huge, vast, wide open spaces
that you work on.
3
00:01:35,304 --> 00:01:37,723
Huge processes.
4
00:01:38,349 --> 00:01:41,477
That's what I liked,
that’s what was interesting
5
00:01:41,727 --> 00:01:43,562
and brought pleasure to me.
6
00:02:19,265 --> 00:02:22,768
He made this decision himself.
He decided to say it.
7
00:02:23,143 --> 00:02:28,023
I am sure he didn't believe
that Putin was so...
8
00:02:29,233 --> 00:02:30,192
...petty.
9
00:02:33,404 --> 00:02:36,991
He had already decided for himself
10
00:02:37,408 --> 00:02:41,412
that he wouldn't be going anywhere,
and if he were arrested, he'd do his time.
11
00:02:43,038 --> 00:02:45,457
He's strange that way.
12
00:02:48,627 --> 00:02:50,880
You need to speak in short sound bites.
13
00:02:51,338 --> 00:02:53,966
They're gonna cut it,
so you have to hurry.
14
00:02:54,174 --> 00:02:56,135
My first phrase was...
15
00:02:57,511 --> 00:02:59,555
please forgive me
for quoting myself here...
16
00:03:01,473 --> 00:03:02,725
What I've seen
17
00:03:03,601 --> 00:03:06,979
allows me to claim that, obviously,
18
00:03:07,897 --> 00:03:10,566
with 100% certainty,
19
00:03:11,442 --> 00:03:15,696
this is an absolutely political case.
20
00:03:17,990 --> 00:03:21,285
Khodorkovsky is accused of fraud
and tax evasion.
21
00:03:21,410 --> 00:03:23,954
Because he didn't hand himself in this
morning, he has been summoned.
22
00:03:24,163 --> 00:03:27,207
The richest man in Russia,
Mikhail Khodorkovsky,
23
00:03:27,416 --> 00:03:30,044
seized at gunpoint
by Russian Special Forces...
24
00:03:30,169 --> 00:03:32,922
US Khodorkovsky is locked up
in an overcrowded Russian prison...
25
00:03:36,175 --> 00:03:38,177
So, to stay out of prison,
why didn't you leave the country?
26
00:03:40,596 --> 00:03:43,724
I don't value my life that much
27
00:03:43,891 --> 00:03:48,062
to exchange it for losing respect.
28
00:04:25,057 --> 00:04:27,017
As for Khodorkovsky,
29
00:04:27,267 --> 00:04:30,270
I have expressed my opinion
on this on many occasions.
30
00:04:30,771 --> 00:04:36,318
But if you want me to say more, I will.
31
00:04:38,153 --> 00:04:40,781
I believe that a thief should sit in jail.
32
00:04:42,324 --> 00:04:48,789
Khodorkovsky has been convicted
of embezzlement by a court.
33
00:04:49,123 --> 00:04:54,420
We're talking about tax evasion
and fraud involving billions of rubles.
34
00:04:56,088 --> 00:04:59,174
Let me remind you the Yukos security chief
35
00:05:00,175 --> 00:05:01,635
is currently serving time for murder.
36
00:05:02,678 --> 00:05:07,725
Do you think the security chief decided
to carry out these crimes all by himself?
37
00:05:14,815 --> 00:05:16,400
To hear Vladimir Putin tell it,
38
00:05:16,525 --> 00:05:19,945
Mikhail Khodorkovsky is a villain
in a real-life gangster movie.
39
00:05:20,904 --> 00:05:22,072
But to Putin's opponents,
40
00:05:22,406 --> 00:05:25,993
Khodorkovsky's ten years
in a Siberian prison made him a hero
41
00:05:26,201 --> 00:05:28,245
for the cause of human rights
and democracy.
42
00:05:29,329 --> 00:05:32,332
Now out of prison, Khodorkovsky
is looking for a third act.
43
00:05:33,709 --> 00:05:35,210
That drew my interest at a time
44
00:05:35,335 --> 00:05:37,921
when we all seem haunted
by Russia's role in the world.
45
00:05:38,464 --> 00:05:39,923
So, I started a film about him.
46
00:05:40,090 --> 00:05:41,383
Okay, Mikhail, any time.
47
00:05:42,718 --> 00:05:44,887
While I could go to Russia, he could not.
48
00:05:45,596 --> 00:05:47,347
He's wanted there for murder.
49
00:05:47,931 --> 00:05:52,144
So, like so many stories about Russia
these days, this one started in London.
50
00:05:58,734 --> 00:06:01,904
If there were some opportunity
for me to return today I would return.
51
00:06:02,613 --> 00:06:07,034
London is nice but I'm a guest here,
and I feel like a guest here.
52
00:06:07,701 --> 00:06:11,622
I live Russia.
53
00:06:13,082 --> 00:06:16,251
All that I do has to do with Russia.
54
00:06:54,998 --> 00:06:58,418
Putin and Khodorkovsky,
they are both very strong.
55
00:06:58,585 --> 00:06:59,419
Right.
56
00:07:00,796 --> 00:07:03,757
-Everyone else, weaker.
-Yes.
57
00:07:03,924 --> 00:07:05,926
But Putin...
58
00:07:06,927 --> 00:07:09,930
respects Khodorkovsky as a rival.
59
00:07:11,515 --> 00:07:15,894
He really respects him
because he is strong.
60
00:07:23,986 --> 00:07:27,990
What event in your life
influenced you most?
61
00:07:29,533 --> 00:07:30,701
An event in my life?
62
00:07:31,243 --> 00:07:32,161
Yes.
63
00:07:36,707 --> 00:07:40,043
I will try to respond seriously.
64
00:07:40,210 --> 00:07:43,463
Perhaps... perhaps it was...
65
00:07:44,923 --> 00:07:46,675
the collapse of the Soviet Union.
66
00:07:48,427 --> 00:07:52,639
This is an adult answer, sorry,
but you asked me an adult question.
67
00:08:13,827 --> 00:08:18,165
I don't know to what extent
you can imagine
68
00:08:18,790 --> 00:08:23,420
the life of an ordinary Soviet person,
an ordinary Soviet family.
69
00:08:35,557 --> 00:08:37,893
My parents worked at the caliper plant.
70
00:08:38,435 --> 00:08:42,564
My father was a design engineer
and my mother was a technologist.
71
00:08:44,066 --> 00:08:50,906
By Soviet standards, a family where
both parents were engineers was very poor.
72
00:08:54,409 --> 00:08:57,955
Up until I started earning money myself,
73
00:08:58,205 --> 00:09:00,874
I understood perfectly well
what it was like
74
00:09:00,999 --> 00:09:02,459
to live without any money at all.
75
00:09:04,795 --> 00:09:07,714
When I earned my first paycheck,
I was 14 years old.
76
00:09:07,881 --> 00:09:11,343
A team of young toughs stepped to me,
77
00:09:11,468 --> 00:09:13,679
wanting to take my money.
78
00:09:15,013 --> 00:09:16,974
It didn't even cross my mind
to give them the money.
79
00:09:17,307 --> 00:09:20,352
And to this day, I've got a scar on my arm
80
00:09:20,560 --> 00:09:23,355
from when they tried to stab me
with a knife.
81
00:09:24,064 --> 00:09:26,066
I did not give my money.
82
00:09:28,819 --> 00:09:31,863
I got into a supplementary
chemistry school.
83
00:09:32,364 --> 00:09:35,909
At home, I tried to create
a little chemical lab myself.
84
00:09:36,576 --> 00:09:42,165
I lived on Cosmonaut Street and right next
to us was Rocket Boulevard.
85
00:09:42,541 --> 00:09:49,339
And on Rocket Boulevard my father and I
launched a rocket that I had built.
86
00:09:53,885 --> 00:09:58,890
My dad was lucky he didn't get hit,
but he was impressed.
87
00:10:01,143 --> 00:10:03,312
All my life, I've been interested
88
00:10:03,770 --> 00:10:05,856
in things that explode.
89
00:10:19,995 --> 00:10:22,622
Why are you filming me
without my permission?
90
00:10:23,165 --> 00:10:24,207
Stalin?
91
00:10:24,416 --> 00:10:27,169
What do you need Stalin for?
He will have you shot!
92
00:10:28,337 --> 00:10:29,504
Understand?
93
00:10:33,884 --> 00:10:35,969
Just behind Red Square,
there's a shopping mall
94
00:10:36,094 --> 00:10:38,764
where actors get paid
for posing in tourist photos
95
00:10:38,972 --> 00:10:40,515
playing Russia's past leaders.
96
00:10:41,391 --> 00:10:46,104
In the winter of 2018, I was told that
the number of Stalins was multiplying.
97
00:10:46,605 --> 00:10:48,732
The local joke was that this was a sign.
98
00:10:49,649 --> 00:10:52,319
Russia was nearing the pageantry
of election season.
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00:10:52,486 --> 00:10:53,403
18 MARCH
2018
100
00:11:01,036 --> 00:11:04,414
There are contestants on the reality show
Dom-2 that behave better than you!
101
00:11:04,623 --> 00:11:07,084
Shut up stupid woman, shut up.
102
00:11:07,209 --> 00:11:08,668
How are you talking to me?
103
00:11:08,835 --> 00:11:11,213
How should I talk to her if she's dumb?
She's got no brains!
104
00:11:11,338 --> 00:11:15,050
Did you see that? She's an idiot!
Get her out of here!
105
00:11:15,258 --> 00:11:17,177
Well there is no election season.
106
00:11:18,512 --> 00:11:20,180
There's election theater.
107
00:11:20,639 --> 00:11:21,848
Calm down!
108
00:11:21,973 --> 00:11:24,059
Who gave her the right
to throw water at me?
109
00:11:24,184 --> 00:11:27,687
The Kremlin has to create
their own counter-candidates
110
00:11:28,188 --> 00:11:30,732
because no one wants to be
a candidate against Putin
111
00:11:30,899 --> 00:11:32,609
because you will lose anyway.
112
00:11:35,737 --> 00:11:38,240
Today's election theater
is what has become
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00:11:38,365 --> 00:11:39,825
of Russia's experiment in democracy.
114
00:11:40,784 --> 00:11:43,537
A bold attempt to shift from years
of communist rule
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00:11:43,662 --> 00:11:45,122
to free-market capitalism.
116
00:12:01,638 --> 00:12:05,642
In 1991, the Soviet Union was convulsed
in a struggle over its future.
117
00:12:05,976 --> 00:12:08,353
While old-guard communists clung
to an empire
118
00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:10,897
and a system of centralized
government control,
119
00:12:11,606 --> 00:12:14,776
a new generation demanded economic
and political freedoms.
120
00:12:15,944 --> 00:12:18,780
Their charismatic leader
was Boris Yeltsin.
121
00:12:19,322 --> 00:12:22,659
Yeltsin! Yeltsin! Yeltsin!
122
00:12:26,955 --> 00:12:29,291
Boris Yeltsin has become
the one rallying point
123
00:12:29,458 --> 00:12:31,376
for opposition to the hardliners.
124
00:12:32,002 --> 00:12:34,087
I was there
as the BBC Moscow correspondent
125
00:12:34,254 --> 00:12:36,339
from '88 through to the end of '91.
126
00:12:36,465 --> 00:12:37,716
This is Martin Sixsmith.
127
00:12:37,883 --> 00:12:38,800
Martin Sixsmith.
128
00:12:38,925 --> 00:12:39,885
Martin Sixsmith.
129
00:12:40,051 --> 00:12:41,803
BBC News Moscow.
130
00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:45,223
Yeltsin was a very,
very inspirational figure.
131
00:12:45,348 --> 00:12:47,893
Back in 1991,
he was the man for the moment.
132
00:12:50,187 --> 00:12:51,813
Yeltsin! Yeltsin! Yeltsin!
133
00:12:52,022 --> 00:12:53,064
It just felt like, you know,
134
00:12:53,273 --> 00:12:56,443
a sort of sea change in the fortunes
of a country.
135
00:12:57,694 --> 00:13:00,489
The democratic process in the country
136
00:13:00,655 --> 00:13:03,158
is becoming increasingly broad
and irreversible.
137
00:13:03,366 --> 00:13:06,453
The people of Russia are becoming
masters of their destiny.
138
00:13:06,661 --> 00:13:09,456
Let's stay strong!
139
00:13:10,874 --> 00:13:11,875
Thank you.
140
00:13:13,335 --> 00:13:16,546
I remember writing all these sort
of great optimistic articles
141
00:13:16,713 --> 00:13:18,840
about how decades
of communism had come to an end
142
00:13:18,965 --> 00:13:21,218
and now we were going to have
a new Russia,
143
00:13:21,343 --> 00:13:24,179
a new Russia with democracy
and freedom and openness.
144
00:13:24,429 --> 00:13:27,557
And looking back, I'm a little ashamed
that I wrote all of that,
145
00:13:27,766 --> 00:13:29,226
because the signs were there,
146
00:13:29,351 --> 00:13:32,270
even then, I think,
that it wasn't going to work out.
147
00:13:35,690 --> 00:13:37,817
I still remember the shock.
148
00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:41,738
The flag isn't red,
there's a tricolor hanging there.
149
00:13:42,364 --> 00:13:46,701
At that point,
I realized that everything had changed.
150
00:13:47,953 --> 00:13:50,038
We knew practically nothing
about capitalism.
151
00:13:50,622 --> 00:13:53,583
It was a jump off the cliff.
152
00:13:54,459 --> 00:13:56,503
I had to consciously understand
153
00:13:56,628 --> 00:13:59,714
whether I want to go with the path
of the Old World,
154
00:13:59,881 --> 00:14:02,926
or I reject it, and take the risk
with Khodorkovsky.
155
00:14:10,392 --> 00:14:13,603
Khodorkovsky was a man
of great intelligence and great vision.
156
00:14:13,853 --> 00:14:15,397
He was also a very decisive man.
157
00:14:16,022 --> 00:14:18,608
As soon as a door opened,
he was straight through it.
158
00:14:19,734 --> 00:14:23,738
He'd been a member of the young
communist organization, the Komsomol.
159
00:14:24,030 --> 00:14:25,782
Not because he believed in communism,
160
00:14:25,907 --> 00:14:28,285
but because Gorbachev
in the perestroika era
161
00:14:28,451 --> 00:14:30,954
started to relax the ban
on private enterprise,
162
00:14:31,162 --> 00:14:32,414
starting with the Komsomol.
163
00:14:33,206 --> 00:14:36,793
By the time the collapse
of the Soviet Union happened in 1991,
164
00:14:37,002 --> 00:14:38,670
he had some cash in his pocket.
165
00:14:39,629 --> 00:14:42,841
He created the first commercial bank
in Russia.
166
00:14:44,259 --> 00:14:48,805
I found a book: Commercial Banks
of Capitalist Countries.
167
00:14:49,889 --> 00:14:51,433
A fabulous book!
168
00:14:51,558 --> 00:14:54,311
It described in great detail,
on a simple level,
169
00:14:54,519 --> 00:14:57,439
how a banking system works.
170
00:14:57,647 --> 00:14:59,399
I said, "Hey, I like this."
171
00:14:59,566 --> 00:15:03,194
"Okay. How can I create a bank?"
172
00:15:04,821 --> 00:15:07,490
Are you a greedy person?
173
00:15:07,616 --> 00:15:11,369
Definitely, definitely. Definitely.
174
00:15:11,620 --> 00:15:14,080
I used to be less greedy,
now I'm greedier.
175
00:15:14,205 --> 00:15:16,708
It's a professional trait.
176
00:15:17,250 --> 00:15:20,086
I have the personality of a banker.
I'm greedy with money.
177
00:15:20,503 --> 00:15:24,174
I just don't understand how people
can exchange those pretty bills
178
00:15:24,299 --> 00:15:26,509
for some crappy goods.
179
00:15:26,635 --> 00:15:30,430
I think one must save, store,
and multiply money.
180
00:15:36,186 --> 00:15:38,355
For me, business was just a game.
181
00:15:39,522 --> 00:15:41,107
Who wants to play, plays.
182
00:15:41,274 --> 00:15:43,902
Who doesn't want to play
does something else.
183
00:15:45,737 --> 00:15:48,281
Khodorkovsky said:
"I thought of this all as a game.
184
00:15:48,490 --> 00:15:49,783
And I was good at playing the game."
185
00:15:49,949 --> 00:15:51,993
Exactly! He was good
at playing the game
186
00:15:52,118 --> 00:15:54,537
but most people were very bad
at playing the game.
187
00:16:04,297 --> 00:16:07,759
Moving from the Soviet Union
into capitalist Russia,
188
00:16:08,551 --> 00:16:10,845
most Russians were completely naive
189
00:16:11,513 --> 00:16:13,765
because they had read
all this propaganda
190
00:16:13,932 --> 00:16:17,185
for all these years that capitalists
were people with, you know,
191
00:16:17,310 --> 00:16:19,979
big cigars and money
coming out of their pockets.
192
00:16:20,397 --> 00:16:23,650
And they imagined
that you would get rich automatically.
193
00:16:24,609 --> 00:16:28,279
When they grew up,
everything was taken care of by the state.
194
00:16:29,447 --> 00:16:31,408
You know, free economy sounds nice,
195
00:16:32,283 --> 00:16:34,703
but you have to make choices
every five minutes.
196
00:16:37,539 --> 00:16:40,083
In the early '90s,
Russians faced lots of choices
197
00:16:40,208 --> 00:16:41,584
they didn't really understand.
198
00:16:42,502 --> 00:16:44,963
Egged on
by American free market boosters,
199
00:16:45,213 --> 00:16:47,132
the Russian government
announced a program
200
00:16:47,298 --> 00:16:50,552
to hand out a chit worth
around 40 dollars to every citizen.
201
00:16:51,136 --> 00:16:55,140
The chits were called vouchers
and could be traded, sold for cash,
202
00:16:55,515 --> 00:16:58,184
or exchanged for shares
in smaller state-owned enterprises.
203
00:16:58,935 --> 00:17:02,605
They were sold as golden tickets
to escape the dead end of communism.
204
00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:12,866
You aren't hurt? What's the rush?
205
00:17:13,032 --> 00:17:14,117
What is this?
206
00:17:14,492 --> 00:17:15,910
Oh, my, you're rich!
207
00:17:17,662 --> 00:17:19,456
Voucher!
208
00:17:19,581 --> 00:17:22,834
Friend of privatization measures!
209
00:17:23,543 --> 00:17:27,922
At first sight it's modest, simple,
but really it's gold!
210
00:17:28,131 --> 00:17:29,174
Mine!
211
00:17:29,424 --> 00:17:32,469
Vow-ow-ow-ow
212
00:17:32,635 --> 00:17:36,389
Vow-ow you are my love.
213
00:17:37,056 --> 00:17:40,351
Now I, a naughty boy,
214
00:17:40,477 --> 00:17:42,562
am not afraid of ruble rate changes!
215
00:17:44,272 --> 00:17:47,400
The meaning is simple!
216
00:17:47,567 --> 00:17:50,820
Vow-ow-ow-ow my darling!
217
00:17:57,952 --> 00:18:00,371
The last three vouchers, 4.50.
218
00:18:00,538 --> 00:18:02,415
Vouchers for sale.
219
00:18:03,666 --> 00:18:08,463
We started buying up these vouchers
because they were in free circulation.
220
00:18:09,088 --> 00:18:12,801
Then, with these vouchers,
we would take part in auctions
221
00:18:12,926 --> 00:18:16,346
for the sale of enterprise shares.
222
00:18:17,639 --> 00:18:20,892
That's how privatization worked.
223
00:18:23,853 --> 00:18:25,647
It was a time of great economic hardship
224
00:18:25,772 --> 00:18:28,983
and the ordinary people didn't realize
what this piece of paper was worth.
225
00:18:29,442 --> 00:18:32,445
But the people who did sent out people
with suitcases full of cash
226
00:18:32,821 --> 00:18:34,864
and they said: "Look, you don't need
that piece of paper!
227
00:18:35,031 --> 00:18:38,076
Here, we'll give you ten dollars
and you can go and buy some bread."
228
00:18:40,370 --> 00:18:43,706
I wasn't saying,
"I'll give you three rubles,"
229
00:18:43,873 --> 00:18:45,083
and then I give you one instead.
230
00:18:45,208 --> 00:18:46,459
That's not what happened.
231
00:18:46,751 --> 00:18:49,879
I said, "I'll give you three rubles.
It's up to you to sell or not.
232
00:18:50,046 --> 00:18:54,634
If you can sell it right now for the price
of a Volga car, great!
233
00:18:55,134 --> 00:18:57,846
If you can't,
I've only got three rubles for you."
234
00:18:59,973 --> 00:19:02,267
So a beggar person
235
00:19:02,517 --> 00:19:07,814
is a beggar only because they don't want
to work, am I understanding correctly?
236
00:19:09,023 --> 00:19:14,821
Well, let's say that the society doesn't
react to it that much yet,
237
00:19:15,238 --> 00:19:19,742
but mainly because beggars consider it
a more advantageous occupation.
238
00:19:23,288 --> 00:19:27,792
Mikhail Borisovich asked us to attract
people of high professional caliber.
239
00:19:28,001 --> 00:19:29,794
That is how we acquired Platon Lebedev.
240
00:19:31,796 --> 00:19:33,715
He was a young but prominent economist.
241
00:19:35,049 --> 00:19:40,555
We bought about 100 substantial
enterprises.
242
00:19:41,264 --> 00:19:44,309
We had to fight for each of them,
as the competition was high.
243
00:19:45,643 --> 00:19:48,021
We stood firm on our feet by then.
244
00:19:50,648 --> 00:19:51,900
The more Khodorkovsky made,
245
00:19:52,025 --> 00:19:54,235
the more vouchers and companies
he could buy,
246
00:19:54,527 --> 00:19:57,280
either on the open market
or in backroom deals.
247
00:19:57,864 --> 00:19:59,574
It was gangster capitalism,
248
00:19:59,699 --> 00:20:02,952
with a rule of law as weak
and bendy as a rubber band.
249
00:20:06,831 --> 00:20:09,292
Under communism,
the absence of personal wealth
250
00:20:09,876 --> 00:20:12,170
meant that there were few targets
for violent criminals.
251
00:20:12,795 --> 00:20:17,091
Now, organized crime groups prey
on the new rich of the capitalist era.
252
00:20:17,425 --> 00:20:19,928
Moscow has become
the murder capital of Europe.
253
00:20:20,053 --> 00:20:23,890
If you were rich, and people knew
you were rich, you were a target.
254
00:20:24,015 --> 00:20:25,808
It was Wild West capitalism.
255
00:20:35,443 --> 00:20:39,447
In America, Wild West lasted
for many decades.
256
00:20:39,614 --> 00:20:43,451
In our country, we managed to fit it
into seven years.
257
00:20:56,422 --> 00:20:57,840
Now watch closely.
258
00:21:02,387 --> 00:21:06,015
I got it. I got the shot on camera.
259
00:21:11,312 --> 00:21:15,608
In '92, we launched The Moscow Times
and we had a lot of news.
260
00:21:16,401 --> 00:21:21,030
A lot of people got killed and many, many
companies were looking for protection.
261
00:21:22,115 --> 00:21:24,701
The Moscow Times developed pretty well
262
00:21:25,034 --> 00:21:28,830
and then two years later,
I launched Cosmopolitan,
263
00:21:29,205 --> 00:21:32,959
which from day one was
an enormous commercial success
264
00:21:33,376 --> 00:21:36,754
and that attracted a lot of shady people.
265
00:21:37,463 --> 00:21:40,216
I thought, you know, maybe it's better
266
00:21:40,591 --> 00:21:46,055
to get one of these rising oligarchs
as a shareholder.
267
00:21:46,514 --> 00:21:49,600
There was one guy in particular
that I got interested in.
268
00:21:49,934 --> 00:21:52,228
And that was Mikhail Khodorkovsky.
269
00:21:53,479 --> 00:21:56,649
He moved to a very fancy castle in Moscow.
270
00:21:57,358 --> 00:21:59,861
Machine guns all over the place.
271
00:21:59,986 --> 00:22:04,407
He had former KGB colonels
running his security.
272
00:22:05,366 --> 00:22:09,162
This was not Russia.
This was Khodorkovsky land, you know.
273
00:22:10,705 --> 00:22:12,498
Lebedev had a nice house.
274
00:22:12,999 --> 00:22:14,542
Nevzlin was next door.
275
00:22:14,959 --> 00:22:16,836
And then there was Khodorkovsky.
276
00:22:18,963 --> 00:22:23,134
I said, " The Moscow Times
is a fiercely independent newspaper.
277
00:22:23,926 --> 00:22:26,679
And if we sell ten percent of our shares,
278
00:22:27,430 --> 00:22:30,475
we want to remain
a fiercely independent newspaper."
279
00:22:30,850 --> 00:22:33,227
And he thought about it, and he said yes.
280
00:22:33,936 --> 00:22:37,607
He was an extremely intelligent person,
281
00:22:37,815 --> 00:22:42,028
but of course, using every trick
in the book available to him.
282
00:22:42,904 --> 00:22:44,572
And at that time,
283
00:22:45,031 --> 00:22:48,576
this transition from communism
to capitalism,
284
00:22:49,035 --> 00:22:54,707
was so fast that it was impossible
for the legal structure to keep up.
285
00:22:58,461 --> 00:23:01,255
In Russia, laws are kind
of an iffy question.
286
00:23:01,631 --> 00:23:03,716
There is even a popular saying
in our country.
287
00:23:04,175 --> 00:23:07,887
The strictness of Russian laws
is compensated for
288
00:23:08,221 --> 00:23:10,223
by the lack of obligation to follow them.
289
00:23:17,146 --> 00:23:20,316
Boris Berezovsky, who was one
of the big seven oligarchs,
290
00:23:20,525 --> 00:23:21,818
very famously said,
291
00:23:22,276 --> 00:23:25,363
"The seven of us controlled 50 percent
292
00:23:25,738 --> 00:23:28,116
of the whole Russian economy."
293
00:23:37,458 --> 00:23:40,628
Two of the Oligarchs placed big bets
on the future of television.
294
00:23:41,420 --> 00:23:44,799
Boris Berezovsky bought
a national network called Channel 1.
295
00:23:45,466 --> 00:23:48,636
He thought he would cash in by turning
a Soviet propaganda vehicle
296
00:23:48,970 --> 00:23:50,138
into a selling machine.
297
00:23:50,888 --> 00:23:55,017
Vladimir Gusinsky set his sights
on starting a new network called NTV.
298
00:24:02,066 --> 00:24:02,984
NTV PRESENTS
299
00:24:03,151 --> 00:24:06,279
The original concept of NTV
was a TV channel
300
00:24:06,904 --> 00:24:09,198
which is not controlled by the government.
301
00:24:11,117 --> 00:24:14,662
An investor was found
who was Vladimir Gusinsky.
302
00:24:14,954 --> 00:24:19,959
He didn't know anything about TV at all
but there was a benefit.
303
00:24:20,334 --> 00:24:23,212
He badly underestimated
how much it would cost.
304
00:24:33,139 --> 00:24:36,184
Gusinsky spent hundreds of millions
of dollars buying movies,
305
00:24:36,475 --> 00:24:37,727
launching game shows
306
00:24:37,894 --> 00:24:40,354
and building an independent
news division from scratch.
307
00:24:41,022 --> 00:24:44,483
Thanks to the Soviets,
almost everyone in Russia had TV sets
308
00:24:44,984 --> 00:24:46,736
so the money started rolling in.
309
00:24:48,529 --> 00:24:50,823
The oligarchs organized
between themselves,
310
00:24:50,990 --> 00:24:53,910
"I do the oil,
you do the telecommunications,
311
00:24:54,076 --> 00:24:58,497
you do the real estate."
So, it was one big scam.
312
00:25:00,333 --> 00:25:04,503
For the oligarchs, the scam
of Russian capitalism was only possible
313
00:25:04,670 --> 00:25:06,380
as long as there was a political system
314
00:25:06,505 --> 00:25:09,008
that protected private property
and individual rights.
315
00:25:10,426 --> 00:25:11,886
Call it democracy.
316
00:25:12,762 --> 00:25:14,472
But if the communists returned to power,
317
00:25:14,639 --> 00:25:17,475
well, that would have been bad
for business.
318
00:25:18,517 --> 00:25:20,770
Yeltsin was up for re-election,
319
00:25:21,771 --> 00:25:24,941
but the country was
in a really, really, bad state.
320
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:27,568
People looked around,
321
00:25:27,735 --> 00:25:30,279
"If this is, you know, the capitalism
that they promised,
322
00:25:30,446 --> 00:25:32,406
we don't want anything to do with it."
323
00:25:33,074 --> 00:25:34,408
The government coffers were empty,
324
00:25:34,575 --> 00:25:37,912
so people's salaries weren't being paid,
pensions weren't being paid,
325
00:25:38,287 --> 00:25:39,580
and if you imagine, as a president,
326
00:25:39,747 --> 00:25:41,999
who's not paying people's pensions
and people's salaries,
327
00:25:42,833 --> 00:25:44,001
you're not going to be very popular.
328
00:25:44,710 --> 00:25:47,505
It really did look as if Gennady Zyuganov,
the communist leader,
329
00:25:47,630 --> 00:25:50,216
was going to beat Yeltsin hands down
at the election.
330
00:25:52,134 --> 00:25:55,263
At that time, I was speaking to Zyuganov,
and he said,
331
00:25:55,471 --> 00:25:57,890
"Mikhail Borisovich, we respect you,
332
00:25:58,057 --> 00:26:00,935
and if we win,
you will become a general director.
333
00:26:01,185 --> 00:26:04,021
But the ownership of the enterprise,
excuse me,
334
00:26:04,313 --> 00:26:06,774
is going to be state ownership."
335
00:26:07,358 --> 00:26:09,652
I said, "Okay, Gennady Andreyevich.
336
00:26:09,860 --> 00:26:14,115
We'll work to ensure
that you don't become president."
337
00:26:15,491 --> 00:26:18,619
The problem was that Yeltsin
at that point was so weak.
338
00:26:19,078 --> 00:26:21,289
He was at a three percent approval rate.
339
00:26:21,455 --> 00:26:25,751
He was sick, he had all these
heart attacks, he was down and out!
340
00:26:34,427 --> 00:26:39,056
One of the very new things
which NTV started doing
341
00:26:39,307 --> 00:26:41,600
was a puppet show called "Kukly."
342
00:26:41,976 --> 00:26:46,480
It was a really scathing, satirical--
Satirical show.
343
00:26:46,856 --> 00:26:49,066
Kiss me
344
00:26:49,608 --> 00:26:54,530
Kiss me a lot
345
00:26:55,031 --> 00:26:58,826
In one of the shows,
Mr. Yeltsin was portrayed as Don Quixote
346
00:26:59,660 --> 00:27:05,082
and the head of his security was portrayed
as his Sancho Panza.
347
00:27:06,125 --> 00:27:10,171
It's not Russian tradition
to laugh at the president.
348
00:27:10,755 --> 00:27:14,342
Laughing at, at the tsar , so to say,
349
00:27:14,508 --> 00:27:18,512
at the emperor, was something unheard--
unheard of.
350
00:27:19,430 --> 00:27:26,354
Let's drink for the most deserving
to win in the election!
351
00:27:28,481 --> 00:27:31,317
Yeltsin was in a very difficult situation.
352
00:27:31,484 --> 00:27:35,863
We'd film him and he'd be staggering
across the room,
353
00:27:36,030 --> 00:27:37,907
barely able to stand upright.
354
00:27:40,368 --> 00:27:43,496
It was clear that he was quite ill,
355
00:27:43,996 --> 00:27:47,500
but, of course, there was
a natural sympathy
356
00:27:47,666 --> 00:27:51,087
and support for Yeltsin from Russian TV.
357
00:27:51,545 --> 00:27:55,841
Yes, probably it was not very fair
but his opponent was a communist
358
00:27:56,300 --> 00:28:01,055
who openly was saying that no such thing
as freedom of the press
359
00:28:01,222 --> 00:28:03,682
would exist under his rule.
360
00:28:04,433 --> 00:28:05,810
Openly supporting Yeltsin,
361
00:28:06,102 --> 00:28:09,647
NTV hatched an elaborate plan
to hide the President's ill health.
362
00:28:10,481 --> 00:28:13,109
Malashenko sent a crew
to Yeltsin's country home
363
00:28:13,401 --> 00:28:17,238
where he was secretly confined to bed rest
after a major heart attack.
364
00:28:18,114 --> 00:28:23,077
We had to demonstrate
that Yeltsin is still alive, at least.
365
00:28:23,744 --> 00:28:26,580
He was too seriously ill
to travel to Moscow,
366
00:28:26,789 --> 00:28:30,835
so, we took some furniture
from his Kremlin office
367
00:28:31,127 --> 00:28:34,755
and we reproduced it
at his country house.
368
00:28:35,256 --> 00:28:40,010
So, at this set, he was visited
by Prime Minister Chernomyrdin
369
00:28:40,469 --> 00:28:43,806
and Yeltsin spoke with him for 30 seconds,
370
00:28:44,515 --> 00:28:48,894
signed some paper and it was shown on TV.
371
00:28:50,521 --> 00:28:54,358
Many times I was told
that it's a thing I shouldn't do
372
00:28:54,859 --> 00:28:58,154
My response is very simple,
it was and it is.
373
00:28:58,737 --> 00:29:02,658
That I would rather elect a corpse
of Yeltsin than a live Zyuganov.
374
00:29:11,041 --> 00:29:13,586
We had suddenly this amazing,
new Yeltsin
375
00:29:14,211 --> 00:29:17,840
and, you know, maybe the doctors had given
him a shot of adrenaline or something,
376
00:29:18,382 --> 00:29:20,217
but I think
what had really reinvigorated him
377
00:29:20,426 --> 00:29:21,927
was the deal he'd cut with the oligarchs.
378
00:29:23,846 --> 00:29:27,600
They struck a Faustian bargain,
379
00:29:27,850 --> 00:29:30,269
which has become known
as "loans-for-shares."
380
00:29:31,437 --> 00:29:34,857
In every Faustian bargain,
the devil is in the details.
381
00:29:35,774 --> 00:29:37,067
On the verge of collapse,
382
00:29:37,234 --> 00:29:39,320
Yeltsin's government
desperately needed cash
383
00:29:39,487 --> 00:29:40,946
to pay salaries and pensions.
384
00:29:41,655 --> 00:29:43,824
The oligarchs agreed to funnel money
to the state
385
00:29:43,949 --> 00:29:47,495
by making a series of loans the government
couldn't afford to repay.
386
00:29:48,704 --> 00:29:51,457
When the loans did default,
the oligarchs got the right
387
00:29:51,624 --> 00:29:53,876
to buy Russia's biggest state enterprises
388
00:29:54,126 --> 00:29:57,463
in sham auctions run
by the oligarchs themselves.
389
00:29:58,255 --> 00:30:01,884
On TV, the deals played like arms-length
banking transactions.
390
00:30:02,593 --> 00:30:05,804
In reality, the oligarchs had cut
inside deals
391
00:30:05,971 --> 00:30:09,850
to pay bargain basement prices
for Russia's most valuable assets.
392
00:30:15,731 --> 00:30:19,443
Khodorkovsky was interested in a massive
state oil company called Yukos.
393
00:30:19,860 --> 00:30:22,613
His bank, Menatep, was the only bidder
at the auction,
394
00:30:22,905 --> 00:30:25,199
which was run by… Menatep.
395
00:30:26,116 --> 00:30:29,411
At the time, Yukos was valued
at five billion dollars.
396
00:30:30,162 --> 00:30:34,291
Menatep offered and paid
what it had on hand, 310 million.
397
00:30:34,583 --> 00:30:35,501
A steal.
398
00:30:36,877 --> 00:30:38,921
It was all conflict of interest.
399
00:30:39,630 --> 00:30:43,133
There was no transparency.
It was just one big mess.
400
00:30:44,677 --> 00:30:46,095
You know, we wrote about this stuff,
401
00:30:46,470 --> 00:30:49,515
and Menatep was a shareholder
of The Moscow Times.
402
00:30:50,516 --> 00:30:53,269
Khodorkovsky himself was not sitting
on our board,
403
00:30:53,686 --> 00:30:56,605
but Leonid Nevzlin,
his right-hand man was.
404
00:30:56,855 --> 00:30:59,066
So this Nevzlin was, you know, fuming.
405
00:31:00,025 --> 00:31:01,694
Was there ever any pressure on you
406
00:31:02,069 --> 00:31:04,238
to write something
that was kind of pro Yukos?
407
00:31:06,407 --> 00:31:07,366
Of course!
408
00:31:16,208 --> 00:31:22,131
I was at the press conference given
by the winners after the auction.
409
00:31:22,673 --> 00:31:25,884
I asked him a question about Yukos,
410
00:31:26,010 --> 00:31:27,845
and Khodorkovsky suddenly
411
00:31:28,012 --> 00:31:33,058
started to answer me, formally,
that he was managing the bank,
412
00:31:33,267 --> 00:31:37,062
that the bank was not managing
the oil company,
413
00:31:37,313 --> 00:31:41,483
this was such utter bullshit
that I couldn't hide my disappointment
414
00:31:41,734 --> 00:31:44,486
and I made this face,
415
00:31:45,112 --> 00:31:49,199
and, suddenly, after the press conference,
Khodorkovsky came up to me.
416
00:31:49,742 --> 00:31:52,202
He approached me to explain,
417
00:31:52,411 --> 00:31:57,082
almost to apologize for his lie to me.
418
00:31:57,458 --> 00:31:59,126
He was not comfortable lying.
419
00:32:00,919 --> 00:32:02,713
Naturally, of course, it wasn't fair.
420
00:32:03,380 --> 00:32:06,634
But, I don't think this was a bad deal
for the state.
421
00:32:08,552 --> 00:32:11,639
Oil production started dropping,
precipitously, in the country.
422
00:32:12,181 --> 00:32:15,100
Plus, the employees weren't getting paid
for six months at a time.
423
00:32:16,101 --> 00:32:20,439
It was proposed to us
that we give all the money that we had.
424
00:32:21,982 --> 00:32:26,236
These companies actually
resumed normal operation quite quickly.
425
00:32:26,862 --> 00:32:28,614
The political problem disappeared.
426
00:32:28,989 --> 00:32:32,868
The workers started being paid
their salaries before the elections.
427
00:32:41,001 --> 00:32:43,629
This was the biggest mistake
of the oligarchs,
428
00:32:43,962 --> 00:32:46,090
and the journalists, and the liberals.
429
00:32:47,007 --> 00:32:52,137
I blame them as much as the communists
or any other forces, even more.
430
00:32:52,888 --> 00:32:57,267
Because they were the people
with the vision and the will to change
431
00:32:57,518 --> 00:33:00,479
and they were going to create
a new Russia.
432
00:33:01,563 --> 00:33:04,149
And what do they do, the first time
they get into trouble
433
00:33:04,316 --> 00:33:07,611
in, you know, in '96,
their candidate may lose?
434
00:33:08,529 --> 00:33:13,534
They just throw out the whole idea
of normal democratic process.
435
00:33:14,535 --> 00:33:19,123
Today it's hard to say
did Yeltsin really win or not.
436
00:33:19,540 --> 00:33:24,461
I personally think he did actually win,
because he was ready for power.
437
00:33:26,672 --> 00:33:28,799
Power in any country,
438
00:33:29,842 --> 00:33:31,301
and especially in Russia,
439
00:33:31,844 --> 00:33:34,596
is always a projection
of people's readiness
440
00:33:34,763 --> 00:33:37,057
to defend it with arms in hand.
441
00:33:37,891 --> 00:33:42,896
If you aren't ready to defend
your position with arms in hand,
442
00:33:44,148 --> 00:33:45,399
you're not interesting anymore.
443
00:33:46,734 --> 00:33:47,860
Just not interesting.
444
00:33:52,072 --> 00:33:54,283
Putin is also a product of the '90s.
445
00:33:59,329 --> 00:34:00,914
Vladimir Putin came from nowhere.
446
00:34:01,331 --> 00:34:04,793
He'd been a minor official in the KGB
in East Germany
447
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,046
when the Wall collapsed
and found himself out of a job.
448
00:34:09,590 --> 00:34:11,967
He found a post up in Leningrad
449
00:34:12,176 --> 00:34:15,345
with the then mayor,
a man called Anatoly Sobchak.
450
00:34:20,434 --> 00:34:22,895
If you worked your whole life
with Sobchak,
451
00:34:23,228 --> 00:34:27,399
the most liberal mayor in Russia,
you must be an okay guy.
452
00:34:28,066 --> 00:34:29,109
That's what I thought.
453
00:34:32,696 --> 00:34:35,949
In fact, Putin was accused of launching
a kickback scheme
454
00:34:36,074 --> 00:34:39,453
to embezzle money meant
for food for St. Petersburg
455
00:34:39,787 --> 00:34:41,622
which was facing a famine.
456
00:34:44,166 --> 00:34:48,587
When members of the city council raised
the issue, Sobchak did not fire Putin.
457
00:34:48,879 --> 00:34:50,923
He promoted him to deputy mayor.
458
00:34:52,925 --> 00:34:54,259
As if to commemorate the moment,
459
00:34:54,551 --> 00:34:56,887
Putin commissioned this documentary
about himself.
460
00:34:57,679 --> 00:34:58,847
He kept the title simple.
461
00:34:59,348 --> 00:35:01,475
POWER
462
00:35:06,772 --> 00:35:08,732
Are you a lucky person?
463
00:35:10,359 --> 00:35:12,820
Until this day, I couldn't complain
about my destiny,
464
00:35:12,986 --> 00:35:15,697
which can lead to a conclusion
that I am lucky.
465
00:35:16,240 --> 00:35:22,204
What happened in 1996 - can one say
that it opened up the way for Putin?
466
00:35:22,454 --> 00:35:24,957
Of course, no, no, of course.
467
00:35:25,332 --> 00:35:27,876
De facto, everything that
was happening back then
468
00:35:28,085 --> 00:35:31,046
was opening up the way
to the future dictatorship.
469
00:35:35,759 --> 00:35:38,762
When Putin's boss failed
to win re-election in 1996,
470
00:35:39,513 --> 00:35:41,640
Putin and some friends flew
to Moscow
471
00:35:41,890 --> 00:35:43,851
where they landed
low-level jobs at the Kremlin.
472
00:35:44,518 --> 00:35:45,477
Goodbye.
473
00:35:46,895 --> 00:35:49,439
Putin held six jobs in three years.
474
00:35:50,148 --> 00:35:54,611
By 1999, he was prime minister
and Yeltsin's likely successor.
475
00:35:55,571 --> 00:35:58,240
But Putin didn't get to the top
all by himself.
476
00:35:59,074 --> 00:36:01,368
The oligarchs were, in fact, the force,
477
00:36:01,493 --> 00:36:04,496
that in many ways,
brought Vladimir Putin to power.
478
00:36:08,876 --> 00:36:12,421
Putin was put there very much
to carry on Yeltsin's rule,
479
00:36:12,546 --> 00:36:15,048
with the help of ultimately four people.
480
00:36:15,966 --> 00:36:17,718
Yeltsin's daughter and her husband,
481
00:36:17,843 --> 00:36:20,596
and two of the oligarchs
who were close to Yeltsin,
482
00:36:20,804 --> 00:36:23,098
Boris Berezovsky and Roman Abramovich.
483
00:36:23,599 --> 00:36:24,808
They were looking for a successor
484
00:36:24,975 --> 00:36:28,854
who would, basically, guarantee
their safety and guarantee their wealth.
485
00:36:33,066 --> 00:36:38,822
I've never gotten into any conflicts
with any of the so-called oligarchs.
486
00:36:39,406 --> 00:36:42,826
One of the so-called oligarchs set
about selling Putin to the public.
487
00:36:43,201 --> 00:36:47,414
Boris Berezovsky used his TV channel
to mock Putin's political rivals
488
00:36:47,706 --> 00:36:49,750
and promote his image as a tough leader.
489
00:36:51,168 --> 00:36:53,921
When a series of explosions
killed hundreds in Moscow,
490
00:36:54,546 --> 00:36:57,341
some suspected Putin himself
might have been involved.
491
00:36:57,883 --> 00:37:01,345
But at the time, TV news footage
highlighted Putin's tough response
492
00:37:01,470 --> 00:37:04,306
to the bombings which he blamed
on Chechen terrorists.
493
00:37:04,765 --> 00:37:06,683
We'll chase terrorists everywhere.
494
00:37:06,850 --> 00:37:08,435
If they are in the airport,
we'll get them in the airport.
495
00:37:08,602 --> 00:37:10,479
If we catch them - I beg your pardon -
in the toilet,
496
00:37:10,646 --> 00:37:13,023
we'll rub them out in the outhouse.
497
00:37:13,190 --> 00:37:14,441
That's it, question closed.
498
00:37:22,908 --> 00:37:26,286
He's tough. And I think this is the thing
499
00:37:26,411 --> 00:37:30,666
that we need in this country
at the moment, some toughness.
500
00:37:35,837 --> 00:37:36,838
I...
501
00:37:40,217 --> 00:37:41,551
I... am leaving.
502
00:37:43,095 --> 00:37:46,765
Yeltsin left office on December 31st, 1999
503
00:37:47,557 --> 00:37:49,518
and appointed Putin acting president.
504
00:37:50,811 --> 00:37:52,896
Putin, in turn, promise to forgive Yeltsin
505
00:37:53,105 --> 00:37:55,857
for any sins or crimes
he may have committed.
506
00:37:57,025 --> 00:38:00,862
It was another inside deal, sealed
by a new election a few months later.
507
00:38:02,072 --> 00:38:04,366
Putin, running as an incumbent,
won easily.
508
00:38:05,575 --> 00:38:08,120
Eighteen years later,
he's still in the same office.
509
00:38:12,624 --> 00:38:15,877
Yes, I am listening. Good evening.
510
00:38:16,628 --> 00:38:18,213
Yes, please.
511
00:38:22,092 --> 00:38:23,301
Bye.
512
00:38:38,650 --> 00:38:43,363
Putinism is a way to restore pride
in your country.
513
00:38:45,657 --> 00:38:50,370
Putinism in itself,
there's nothing wrong with it.
514
00:38:52,372 --> 00:38:56,877
When Putin started, he did a lot
of good things for the country
515
00:38:57,294 --> 00:38:59,838
because it was a mess.
516
00:39:00,505 --> 00:39:03,133
People were completely dispirited.
517
00:39:04,718 --> 00:39:07,637
People longed to...
518
00:39:08,180 --> 00:39:09,890
to be part of something.
519
00:39:10,474 --> 00:39:13,060
You know, if you grew up
in a world power
520
00:39:13,226 --> 00:39:16,521
and then the rest of the world
sees you as a joke,
521
00:39:16,688 --> 00:39:20,150
as a banana republic,
it's very humiliating.
522
00:39:20,859 --> 00:39:23,904
So, people really needed such a figure.
523
00:39:26,448 --> 00:39:29,534
It seemed to me that, ideologically,
he was one of our people.
524
00:39:30,118 --> 00:39:32,579
A man of our generation
525
00:39:33,413 --> 00:39:39,419
who gets it, who wants to push Russia
in the same direction that we want for it,
526
00:39:39,586 --> 00:39:44,299
that is towards openness,
towards democracy.
527
00:39:46,968 --> 00:39:48,053
Boy, was I mistaken.
528
00:39:49,930 --> 00:39:52,432
He's a very talented KGB guy.
529
00:39:52,557 --> 00:39:53,725
Very talented.
530
00:39:57,395 --> 00:39:58,772
You like leftists?
531
00:39:59,439 --> 00:40:00,565
Putin will behave around you
532
00:40:01,483 --> 00:40:03,568
in a way that you will be convinced
that he's a leftist.
533
00:40:04,486 --> 00:40:06,154
You like nationalists?
534
00:40:06,738 --> 00:40:07,864
Putin is going to act around you
535
00:40:08,031 --> 00:40:10,158
in a way that you'll think
that he's a bit of a nationalist.
536
00:40:11,243 --> 00:40:12,911
You like conservatives?
537
00:40:13,703 --> 00:40:17,290
Talk to him and you will get an impression
that he's a conservative.
538
00:40:18,416 --> 00:40:19,376
That's a talent.
539
00:40:25,298 --> 00:40:29,344
Putin had declared that he supported
the liberal views of Yeltsin
540
00:40:29,553 --> 00:40:32,848
and that he was going to keep Russia
on a course of liberty and openness.
541
00:40:33,014 --> 00:40:35,767
But even then you could see that Putin
was looking for a way
542
00:40:35,976 --> 00:40:39,312
to re-calibrate this relationship
543
00:40:39,521 --> 00:40:42,357
between political power
and the oligarchs.
544
00:40:42,774 --> 00:40:44,943
You're the ones
who shaped this government,
545
00:40:46,319 --> 00:40:51,491
mainly through controlled political
and semi-political structures.
546
00:40:52,492 --> 00:40:54,327
At first, he said, "Look, we'll do a deal.
547
00:40:54,619 --> 00:40:58,790
I'm not going to question the results
of the privatization process,
548
00:40:58,915 --> 00:41:01,626
which meant, I'm not going to try
and take back your business empires
549
00:41:01,835 --> 00:41:05,505
that you've got through
the loans-for-shares auctions
550
00:41:05,714 --> 00:41:07,883
as long as you keep out of politics."
551
00:41:10,051 --> 00:41:12,596
For the moment,
that separation of business and politics
552
00:41:12,804 --> 00:41:14,306
served Khodorkovsky's interest.
553
00:41:15,140 --> 00:41:17,309
For Khodorkovsky,
business had been hard enough.
554
00:41:18,226 --> 00:41:19,895
He left banking to focus on Yukos.
555
00:41:20,645 --> 00:41:22,898
He traveled to remote regions of Siberia
556
00:41:23,064 --> 00:41:26,651
to learn how to pull oil
out of the ground, move it and sell it.
557
00:41:27,068 --> 00:41:29,070
And he had to motivate workers
and managers
558
00:41:29,404 --> 00:41:32,449
who never needed to care
about efficiency or competition.
559
00:41:38,914 --> 00:41:41,208
All these shitty local oil companies
560
00:41:41,374 --> 00:41:44,794
that, you know, just lost money
and were totally inefficient.
561
00:41:45,712 --> 00:41:49,299
He turned that around.
He started streamlining these companies.
562
00:41:50,217 --> 00:41:54,387
Khodorkovsky, from a business perspective,
did an amazing job.
563
00:41:55,388 --> 00:41:57,724
But in those small towns in Siberia,
564
00:41:57,974 --> 00:42:00,644
a lot of the people who work there,
they lost their job.
565
00:42:01,436 --> 00:42:03,813
Many local mayors were very unhappy
566
00:42:04,439 --> 00:42:07,776
and some mayors died.
567
00:42:09,110 --> 00:42:14,366
One of those Mayor's was Vladimir Petukhov
of Nefteyugansk, a major Yukos hub.
568
00:42:15,158 --> 00:42:19,829
Petukhov was furious with Khodorkovsky
for laying off nearly 15,000 workers,
569
00:42:20,121 --> 00:42:23,416
delays in payroll and battles
overpaying local taxes.
570
00:42:24,376 --> 00:42:27,545
Khodorkovsky claimed that Petukhov
was in the grip of Chechen gangsters
571
00:42:28,004 --> 00:42:30,215
and using taxes to pay bribes.
572
00:42:31,216 --> 00:42:34,261
So Khodorkovsky flew to Nefteyugansk
with bags of cash
573
00:42:34,511 --> 00:42:38,014
to make direct payments to teachers,
nurses and city workers.
574
00:42:38,431 --> 00:42:41,101
In protest, the mayor embarked
on a hunger strike
575
00:42:41,643 --> 00:42:43,770
until, finally, a deal was cut.
576
00:42:44,562 --> 00:42:47,023
But four days later, the mayor was shot.
577
00:42:48,066 --> 00:42:52,362
I got a call. I remember I asked,
"Is he alive?"
578
00:42:52,529 --> 00:42:55,991
He replied and I'll remember
his words forever,
579
00:42:56,199 --> 00:42:59,828
"What do you mean alive, there's a glass
full of brains that spilled out."
580
00:43:03,665 --> 00:43:07,043
Khodorkovsky killed him!
Khodorkovsky!
581
00:43:10,297 --> 00:43:14,301
Petukhov? During the wild '90s
he stood up for the town
582
00:43:14,718 --> 00:43:16,177
and paid a high price.
583
00:43:17,345 --> 00:43:18,972
We have a monument for him.
584
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,937
I first went to Nefteyugansk to look
at the oil industry
585
00:43:26,062 --> 00:43:28,690
weeks after the murder of the mayor.
586
00:43:30,191 --> 00:43:31,985
And Khodorkovsky was hated there
587
00:43:32,444 --> 00:43:34,404
because Khodorkovsky was already,
by that time, a billionaire
588
00:43:34,529 --> 00:43:37,824
and these were the people
who were, basically, unable to get food.
589
00:43:39,075 --> 00:43:42,203
I got angry, as a young journalist
and I wrote what I saw.
590
00:43:43,121 --> 00:43:48,043
I don't know whether Khodorkovsky's men
or he himself were involved
591
00:43:48,209 --> 00:43:51,504
in the death of the mayor.
I wouldn't put it past them.
592
00:43:53,631 --> 00:43:56,634
Petukhov, the mayor, was murdered
on Khodorkovsky's birthday.
593
00:43:57,135 --> 00:43:59,512
Birthdays have been interesting.
594
00:44:00,555 --> 00:44:03,141
The other famous case
is Anna Politkovskaya,
595
00:44:03,266 --> 00:44:08,271
the crusading journalist who was
investigating a lot of Kremlin corruption
596
00:44:09,064 --> 00:44:11,483
and she was murdered on Putin's birthday.
597
00:44:13,193 --> 00:44:17,405
If I had thought
that this would end the way it did
598
00:44:17,614 --> 00:44:22,911
I would have made much more
of an effort to investigate this case.
599
00:44:23,578 --> 00:44:28,541
This was 1998 and so, I was very busy
with completely different things.
600
00:44:28,792 --> 00:44:31,002
And I just simply didn't have time
to deal with this.
601
00:44:36,216 --> 00:44:38,259
Some observers called it a meltdown.
602
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:40,595
Russian stocks are at their lowest levels
603
00:44:40,762 --> 00:44:44,474
since President Boris Yeltsin
had heart surgery in 1996.
604
00:44:44,682 --> 00:44:47,102
The biggest concern now is that
the Russian government
605
00:44:47,227 --> 00:44:49,687
will be forced to devalue the ruble.
606
00:44:52,148 --> 00:44:53,608
The ruble collapsed.
607
00:44:54,734 --> 00:44:57,237
The situation was a hot mess.
608
00:44:59,114 --> 00:45:01,449
So I came out to our regions.
609
00:45:02,700 --> 00:45:05,286
Out in the regions, the situation
was absolutely dramatic.
610
00:45:05,453 --> 00:45:09,791
In one day,
prices on all groceries tripled.
611
00:45:12,043 --> 00:45:13,753
I still remember in Nefteyugansk...
612
00:45:14,337 --> 00:45:16,464
700 people were sitting there,
613
00:45:16,631 --> 00:45:18,591
they were representatives
of all the work units,
614
00:45:19,551 --> 00:45:24,055
and by law they are required to vote
to reduce their own salaries.
615
00:45:26,474 --> 00:45:30,395
And I addressed the people.
I said, "This is the situation.
616
00:45:31,563 --> 00:45:36,651
You need to vote for a salary reduction
of 30%."
617
00:45:38,862 --> 00:45:41,531
People are asking, "When are you going
to give it back to us?"
618
00:45:42,490 --> 00:45:44,367
And I said, "In one year."
619
00:45:46,202 --> 00:45:47,662
And they voted for the reduction.
620
00:45:52,667 --> 00:45:57,464
I still had to do
very drastic staff reductions.
621
00:46:03,094 --> 00:46:05,430
You can't imagine what it's like
to lay off
622
00:46:05,597 --> 00:46:07,390
literally tens of thousands of people.
623
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:13,229
That's, well... it's real heavy.
624
00:46:18,026 --> 00:46:20,820
People who worked for me...
625
00:46:21,529 --> 00:46:27,535
They would stand at their workplace,
expecting that I pay them.
626
00:46:30,079 --> 00:46:33,082
But if I don't have money,
they would simply faint...
627
00:46:33,791 --> 00:46:35,543
Faint from hunger.
628
00:46:37,712 --> 00:46:39,797
And you look at this and you understand.
629
00:46:40,256 --> 00:46:43,301
"That's my responsibility.
That's my responsibility.
630
00:46:43,635 --> 00:46:45,595
Either I'm going to figure a way out
631
00:46:46,262 --> 00:46:48,765
or I don't even know what to do."
632
00:46:50,141 --> 00:46:53,186
At that moment, you understand
that business is not a game,
633
00:46:53,353 --> 00:46:55,063
not in the least bit a game.
634
00:47:02,612 --> 00:47:07,408
I understood that I owed people a lot.
635
00:47:07,659 --> 00:47:12,455
And that I needed somehow to
give it back to them.
636
00:47:24,384 --> 00:47:28,054
He was opening schools.
You know, his foundation was doing a lot.
637
00:47:28,763 --> 00:47:31,140
He was the entrepreneur with the vision.
638
00:47:32,058 --> 00:47:34,394
The type of entrepreneur
that Russia needed
639
00:47:35,103 --> 00:47:37,772
to create this new economy.
640
00:47:38,439 --> 00:47:43,903
And he immediately brought in
Western know-how, new technology,
641
00:47:44,028 --> 00:47:49,075
and, in a few years, built one
of the best oil companies in the world.
642
00:48:15,977 --> 00:48:20,690
Khodorkovsky's work at Yukos paid off
when the ruble rose along with oil prices.
643
00:48:21,441 --> 00:48:24,569
Just after the turn of the century,
the Russian economy was booming,
644
00:48:25,361 --> 00:48:26,904
powered in large part, by oil.
645
00:48:27,780 --> 00:48:31,868
That was a business victory, but it was
also a moment of political opportunity.
646
00:48:32,952 --> 00:48:34,704
Who would take credit for the turnaround?
647
00:48:35,204 --> 00:48:37,707
The former KGB agent-turned-politician?
648
00:48:38,166 --> 00:48:42,253
Or the ruthless oligarch whose attention
was quickly turning to politics?
649
00:48:42,962 --> 00:48:46,758
I did not expect to see in him
this interest in politics.
650
00:48:47,383 --> 00:48:50,678
Even today, all other Russian oligarchs
651
00:48:50,887 --> 00:48:53,181
they all distance themselves
from politics, saying,
652
00:48:53,348 --> 00:48:56,392
"No no, no, no way,
we aren't interested in politics,
653
00:48:56,601 --> 00:49:00,063
just business, just business,
we're just interested in money."
654
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:02,899
And Khodorkovsky suddenly began
to talk about politics.
655
00:49:03,733 --> 00:49:07,945
Modern society can only be built
on the basis of democracy.
656
00:49:08,363 --> 00:49:13,534
Although democracy has a hard time
taking hold in our country
657
00:49:13,701 --> 00:49:16,496
because we didn't have democracy
for 500 years.
658
00:49:16,913 --> 00:49:20,708
It seems like some fantasy to us
but in reality it's not.
659
00:49:21,167 --> 00:49:25,922
Khodorkovsky is an interesting man,
because now he has all this money...
660
00:49:27,924 --> 00:49:30,635
he started thinking about, you know,
661
00:49:31,010 --> 00:49:33,680
what's next, what is my role in society?
662
00:49:33,930 --> 00:49:35,890
And this is where he clashes with Putin.
663
00:49:36,849 --> 00:49:41,646
His intolerance for personal criticism
has been growing
664
00:49:42,313 --> 00:49:43,940
with each passing year.
665
00:49:44,524 --> 00:49:47,443
You could say the government is bad.
666
00:49:47,985 --> 00:49:52,907
You might say that communism is better
than capitalism.
667
00:49:53,074 --> 00:49:54,659
He couldn't care less.
668
00:49:55,702 --> 00:49:58,371
But say that Putin is ridiculous,
669
00:50:01,874 --> 00:50:03,501
and you'll have serious problems.
670
00:50:04,961 --> 00:50:09,340
Rub them out in the outhouse!
Rub them out in the outhouse!
671
00:50:10,258 --> 00:50:14,387
There are rumors that Putin in particular
didn't like one program
672
00:50:15,221 --> 00:50:21,102
where he was portrayed as a midget man
who became the ruler of the country
673
00:50:21,853 --> 00:50:24,772
due to the power of magic.
674
00:50:26,023 --> 00:50:28,151
At some point, magic disappear
675
00:50:28,317 --> 00:50:32,029
and people see this midget man
for what he is.
676
00:50:35,908 --> 00:50:41,748
Yeltsin could be angry at some program
but there were no reprisals.
677
00:50:42,248 --> 00:50:47,044
Putin and his people had
an entirely different attitude towards TV.
678
00:50:48,629 --> 00:50:51,591
Putin was the product of television.
They made him.
679
00:50:52,842 --> 00:50:56,304
He was absolutely nobody, I mean,
nobody ever heard of Vladimir Putin.
680
00:50:58,431 --> 00:51:02,769
The fact that television could
actually help make him into president
681
00:51:02,935 --> 00:51:04,771
within six months...
682
00:51:05,396 --> 00:51:08,900
I think was enough for him
to understand the real power.
683
00:51:12,278 --> 00:51:15,990
If TV could make his reputation,
it could also break it.
684
00:51:23,039 --> 00:51:25,583
We've swum to the hatch.
685
00:51:26,501 --> 00:51:28,085
Seven months after Putin became president,
686
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:31,589
a terrible underwater explosion
ripped apart the Kursk,
687
00:51:32,048 --> 00:51:33,549
a Russian nuclear submarine.
688
00:51:34,467 --> 00:51:38,137
As the nation anxiously watched
the efforts to rescue a few survivors,
689
00:51:39,096 --> 00:51:42,558
Putin was photographed hosting a barbeque
at a seaside resort.
690
00:51:43,226 --> 00:51:47,230
For ten days, relentless TV news reports
shredded Putin's reputation
691
00:51:47,396 --> 00:51:50,566
by chronicling the incompetence
and dishonesty of the government.
692
00:51:53,694 --> 00:51:56,781
To recover, Putin rushed to talk
to the widows of the sailors.
693
00:51:58,241 --> 00:52:00,201
But rather than take responsibility,
694
00:52:00,535 --> 00:52:03,412
he looked to administer blame
on television.
695
00:52:03,663 --> 00:52:07,917
There are people on TV today
who are shouting more than everybody else
696
00:52:08,084 --> 00:52:12,380
and for the past ten years have been
destroying this army and fleet
697
00:52:12,755 --> 00:52:15,716
where people die today.
698
00:52:16,133 --> 00:52:19,720
Putin, as somebody who was both born
and bred in the Soviet Union,
699
00:52:19,887 --> 00:52:21,848
but more importantly, bred by the KGB,
700
00:52:21,973 --> 00:52:25,518
has this very conspiratorial view
of the world,
701
00:52:25,643 --> 00:52:29,272
and that view of the world suggests
that people don't have any free will.
702
00:52:29,856 --> 00:52:32,608
And history, therefore,
doesn't have any free will,
703
00:52:32,775 --> 00:52:35,528
that everything is pre-planned,
plotted by somebody,
704
00:52:35,695 --> 00:52:40,324
and so, he immediately assumed
that this was a plot to subvert him.
705
00:52:42,118 --> 00:52:44,912
That was a very emotional, I think,
genuine outburst.
706
00:52:45,997 --> 00:52:49,667
Vladimir Putin, President of Russia.
There's lots...
707
00:52:49,834 --> 00:52:54,755
We remember to this day
his participation in Larry King's TV show.
708
00:52:55,214 --> 00:52:57,258
What happened with the submarine?
709
00:52:57,800 --> 00:53:01,137
When he was asked what happened
with the submarine, he said...
710
00:53:01,387 --> 00:53:02,471
"It sank."
711
00:53:03,973 --> 00:53:05,057
...and he smiled.
712
00:53:06,350 --> 00:53:10,438
When he felt those were serious blows
to his reputation,
713
00:53:11,772 --> 00:53:14,150
he decided that it would be
much more efficient
714
00:53:16,944 --> 00:53:20,907
to force the mass media to work for him.
715
00:53:21,657 --> 00:53:24,535
-Thank you, Mr. President.
-Thank you, Larry.
716
00:53:25,620 --> 00:53:28,080
Putin's command of the media
was quickly evident.
717
00:53:28,748 --> 00:53:31,500
Even in the TV images of one
of the grieving relatives
718
00:53:31,918 --> 00:53:34,795
whose voice was silenced
with eerie efficiency.
719
00:53:35,504 --> 00:53:37,006
I can't say anything!
720
00:53:37,214 --> 00:53:41,010
Yes, I'm saying it all openly
and in front of the whole world.
721
00:53:51,938 --> 00:53:53,064
Bastards!
722
00:53:55,608 --> 00:53:58,903
Putin and his people
have a KGB background.
723
00:53:59,445 --> 00:54:00,905
I am talking about control.
724
00:54:01,447 --> 00:54:04,325
What you don't control
is a potential threat.
725
00:54:04,909 --> 00:54:06,911
What you control is safe.
726
00:54:09,121 --> 00:54:10,665
Everything should be controlled.
727
00:54:12,291 --> 00:54:16,420
The first thing they did
was to establish control over TV
728
00:54:16,671 --> 00:54:19,840
because uncontrolled TV
was a threat.
729
00:54:21,467 --> 00:54:22,718
After the Kursk episode,
730
00:54:22,969 --> 00:54:27,181
Putin's government took over the two
major TV networks controlled by oligarchs.
731
00:54:28,683 --> 00:54:29,809
Facing the prospect of prison,
732
00:54:30,184 --> 00:54:33,354
Gusinsky and his chief executive,
Malashenko, fled the country.
733
00:54:34,188 --> 00:54:35,773
Berezovsky soon followed.
734
00:54:37,817 --> 00:54:41,904
When Boris Berezovsky fell out with Putin
in such a spectacular and public way,
735
00:54:42,238 --> 00:54:44,949
he fled to London
and I had quite a lot to do with him.
736
00:54:45,324 --> 00:54:48,119
He asked me if I would write
his biography for him.
737
00:54:48,285 --> 00:54:50,705
So I spoke to him over the years,
you know, socially,
738
00:54:50,830 --> 00:54:55,209
and at times, I recorded
the conversations, as well.
739
00:54:57,962 --> 00:55:01,674
I remember well my last meeting
with Vladimir Putin,
740
00:55:01,799 --> 00:55:05,678
after the tragedy of the Kursk submarine.
741
00:55:06,512 --> 00:55:09,849
And the most terrible for me,
during our meeting,
742
00:55:10,891 --> 00:55:14,854
he told me that I tried to destroy him.
743
00:55:15,229 --> 00:55:19,150
After that I recognize
that he is really... not good man.
744
00:55:20,484 --> 00:55:24,196
The first time I recognized him
not as my friend.
745
00:55:24,363 --> 00:55:26,699
But as a wrong man.
746
00:55:34,040 --> 00:55:37,793
Well, he kicked Berezovsky out
and took control of the first channel.
747
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:41,797
He kicked Gusinsky out of the country
and took control of NTV.
748
00:55:43,424 --> 00:55:44,592
He had the airwaves.
749
00:55:50,639 --> 00:55:53,309
This was a successful year for Russia,
750
00:55:53,684 --> 00:55:56,312
both in domestic affairs
and foreign policy.
751
00:55:56,937 --> 00:56:01,358
Russia is being treated with more trust
and respect in the world.
752
00:56:02,610 --> 00:56:04,528
Once he controlled the narrative
and the image,
753
00:56:04,987 --> 00:56:07,782
which is everything in Russia,
he could take then control
754
00:56:07,907 --> 00:56:11,827
of the commanding heights of the economy,
the oil and take on the biggest tycoon.
755
00:56:14,371 --> 00:56:16,665
Putin had a very valid point.
756
00:56:16,916 --> 00:56:20,127
Half of the parliament
is on the payroll of Khodorkovsky.
757
00:56:20,419 --> 00:56:25,674
Many of the top people in the oil ministry
are people appointed by the oligarchs.
758
00:56:26,175 --> 00:56:27,885
He thinks, you know, "What is this?
759
00:56:28,219 --> 00:56:31,055
If I want to be a real president,
I need to have my own people
760
00:56:31,305 --> 00:56:34,058
and I need to get these people
out of politics."
761
00:56:36,185 --> 00:56:39,021
It was said at the time
that you were busy courting,
762
00:56:39,146 --> 00:56:42,274
or even buying influence in the,
in the Duma.
763
00:56:42,650 --> 00:56:46,737
We only dealt
with our industry-related problems.
764
00:56:48,197 --> 00:56:54,161
Did this require buying MPs?
765
00:56:54,578 --> 00:56:59,291
It was exactly as it happens
in the United States Congress.
766
00:56:59,416 --> 00:57:04,380
"Will you support our campaign
in the next election?"
767
00:57:07,424 --> 00:57:10,553
We felt that the country
should gradually develop
768
00:57:10,678 --> 00:57:12,263
in the direction of openness.
769
00:57:13,222 --> 00:57:17,393
Business should develop from the point
of view of greater transparency.
770
00:57:17,768 --> 00:57:22,064
We thought that if Putin decides
to proceed in this direction,
771
00:57:22,398 --> 00:57:27,194
then we would get serious
competitive advantages
772
00:57:27,361 --> 00:57:29,572
on international markets.
773
00:57:43,252 --> 00:57:48,048
Khodorkovsky decided to make Yukos
a public company
774
00:57:48,549 --> 00:57:50,176
after realizing it would be worth more.
775
00:57:50,342 --> 00:57:53,095
He will get richer and
776
00:57:53,554 --> 00:58:00,394
he had this idea
about merging with some oil major.
777
00:58:01,687 --> 00:58:03,272
They were negotiating with Exxon.
778
00:58:05,983 --> 00:58:09,320
Khodorkovsky invited in the head
of Exxon Mobil and said,
779
00:58:09,570 --> 00:58:13,866
"Look, my company is open, transparent,
why don't we have a partnership,
780
00:58:13,991 --> 00:58:16,243
we can be a massive player
on the world market."
781
00:58:16,619 --> 00:58:19,246
If you are Vladimir Putin
sitting in the Kremlin at a time
782
00:58:19,371 --> 00:58:22,875
when the world is going to war over oil,
783
00:58:23,292 --> 00:58:27,630
and you have your least favorite oligarch
saying to the Americans,
784
00:58:27,796 --> 00:58:29,632
"I've got lots of oil,
do you want to come and share it?"
785
00:58:29,757 --> 00:58:31,467
You know, it's like a slap in the face.
786
00:58:35,054 --> 00:58:38,891
The authorities must have seen him
as a threat at some point,
787
00:58:39,516 --> 00:58:45,231
because the man has political views,
he has goals, he's got some vision,
788
00:58:45,397 --> 00:58:46,899
and he also has the money.
789
00:58:47,066 --> 00:58:48,025
He's dangerous.
790
00:58:53,614 --> 00:58:55,699
The struggle for power surfaced
with an oil deal.
791
00:58:55,908 --> 00:59:00,246
A small company, Northern Oil,
paid seven million dollars
792
00:59:00,454 --> 00:59:03,624
for the rights to an oil field
which it sold soon after
793
00:59:03,999 --> 00:59:08,587
for 600 million dollars
to a government company, Rosneft.
794
00:59:09,713 --> 00:59:12,299
The man at the center of the deal
was Igor Sechin,
795
00:59:12,549 --> 00:59:14,385
a close friend of Vladimir Putin.
796
00:59:15,135 --> 00:59:16,679
Were kickbacks involved?
797
00:59:17,388 --> 00:59:19,682
Khodorkovsky wanted to make an issue
of the deal
798
00:59:19,890 --> 00:59:23,060
at an upcoming nationally
televised forum on corruption.
799
00:59:40,244 --> 00:59:42,121
The night before the meeting,
800
00:59:42,288 --> 00:59:45,791
he dragged me outside
to talk about Northern Oil.
801
00:59:48,210 --> 00:59:51,463
He asked me, "How do you think Putin
is going to react to this?"
802
00:59:51,630 --> 00:59:55,718
I said that he would react calmly
if he had nothing to do with it,
803
00:59:56,302 --> 01:00:00,723
and terribly if he had gotten
a part of the bribe.
804
01:00:04,268 --> 01:00:05,894
I understood it was a big risk.
805
01:00:07,104 --> 01:00:11,900
But this isn't the first risk I have
taken in my life at that point.
806
01:00:23,037 --> 01:00:25,539
Putin had asked
Russia's biggest businessmen
807
01:00:25,664 --> 01:00:29,752
to a roundtable discussion on television
on the theme of corruption.
808
01:00:30,294 --> 01:00:34,048
Most of the guys who took part
had the wisdom
809
01:00:34,214 --> 01:00:36,342
to figure out that it was a little bit
of a fig leaf.
810
01:00:38,385 --> 01:00:41,597
Look - Putin shakes hands
with each person one by one.
811
01:00:44,391 --> 01:00:46,977
But Khodorkovsky came armed
with a whole pile of slides,
812
01:00:47,186 --> 01:00:50,856
which reported that Russians felt
that corruption existed
813
01:00:51,190 --> 01:00:53,525
at the highest levels of government.
814
01:00:56,779 --> 01:00:58,822
I couldn't bring myself to watch it.
815
01:00:59,990 --> 01:01:01,909
...the scale of corruption in Russia ....
816
01:01:02,201 --> 01:01:04,119
I said, "Vladimir Vladimirovich.
817
01:01:04,286 --> 01:01:08,040
Does it mean anything to you
that 25% of the population believe
818
01:01:08,248 --> 01:01:11,043
that you are among those taking bribes?"
819
01:01:13,462 --> 01:01:15,089
That was, of course, edited out.
820
01:01:16,340 --> 01:01:18,342
There are probably other factors.
821
01:01:18,467 --> 01:01:19,927
And they then got into the discussion
822
01:01:20,052 --> 01:01:22,679
of what Khodorkovsky thought
was a dodgy deal.
823
01:01:23,180 --> 01:01:27,226
Now you've mentioned Rosneft
and the deal with Sibneft...
824
01:01:27,601 --> 01:01:31,188
This Northern Oil deal was Putin happy
that you mentioned it?
825
01:01:32,064 --> 01:01:34,400
Oh, he was thrilled.
826
01:01:36,402 --> 01:01:39,363
This was the first time he went
for a head-to-head conflict.
827
01:01:40,280 --> 01:01:42,032
He wouldn't discuss the transaction.
828
01:01:43,617 --> 01:01:44,576
He started with,
829
01:01:44,743 --> 01:01:45,994
"And you?
830
01:01:48,038 --> 01:01:50,833
I know that you have excess reserves."
831
01:01:51,041 --> 01:01:54,086
There are state companies that
need to increase their reserves,
832
01:01:54,294 --> 01:01:56,171
that don't have enough reserves.
833
01:01:57,214 --> 01:02:02,261
While some other oil companies like,
for example, Yukos, have extra reserves.
834
01:02:02,594 --> 01:02:07,808
How it got them is the question
within the scope of today's discussion.
835
01:02:08,142 --> 01:02:11,728
"And you had problems
with the tax authorities,
836
01:02:11,937 --> 01:02:13,313
though you did resolve them."
837
01:02:15,149 --> 01:02:17,484
...including the questions
838
01:02:17,693 --> 01:02:22,614
of paying and not paying taxes.
839
01:02:22,906 --> 01:02:26,535
We've already discussed
that at one point, right? Recently.
840
01:02:28,370 --> 01:02:29,830
That was unexpected.
841
01:02:30,330 --> 01:02:32,207
But these issues came to be somehow.
842
01:02:35,669 --> 01:02:38,922
You saw from the facial expression
of Putin,
843
01:02:39,173 --> 01:02:41,341
he was really, really angry.
844
01:02:41,884 --> 01:02:45,095
Especially, coming from Khodorkovsky.
845
01:02:49,600 --> 01:02:52,478
That is why I pass the puck
back to you.
846
01:02:55,772 --> 01:03:01,403
In my life, I had overstepped so
many different lines
847
01:03:03,864 --> 01:03:05,365
that for me,
848
01:03:08,035 --> 01:03:11,538
this wasn't something out of the ordinary.
849
01:03:12,706 --> 01:03:14,708
Well, okay. So the guy's not happy.
850
01:03:16,126 --> 01:03:17,085
So what?
851
01:03:21,340 --> 01:03:25,135
There were all these warning signs.
Many of his people were arrested.
852
01:03:27,679 --> 01:03:32,392
It had happened with Gusinsky before me,
and with Berezovsky.
853
01:03:33,435 --> 01:03:35,979
It's really standard practice.
854
01:03:38,565 --> 01:03:41,777
It was hard for me to understand
why Khodorkovsky was smiling
855
01:03:42,152 --> 01:03:45,531
or how he could say that what was
happening was standard practice.
856
01:03:46,698 --> 01:03:49,326
Just four months after the TV battle
with Putin,
857
01:03:49,701 --> 01:03:53,956
a top security official at Yukos,
Alexei Pichugin, was arrested
858
01:03:54,122 --> 01:03:57,376
and tried in secret in connection
with a series of contract killings,
859
01:03:58,001 --> 01:04:00,587
which would include
the murder of mayor Petukhov.
860
01:04:02,297 --> 01:04:04,716
That was strange
because five years earlier,
861
01:04:04,883 --> 01:04:07,219
the case had been dropped
when the likely killers,
862
01:04:07,469 --> 01:04:09,805
two Chechen gangsters,
had been murdered.
863
01:04:11,765 --> 01:04:14,059
Now the Kremlin was pushing a fresh story.
864
01:04:15,394 --> 01:04:18,647
The Chechens were replaced
with new killers who suddenly confessed
865
01:04:18,981 --> 01:04:20,983
and testified that Pichugin
ordered the hit.
866
01:04:21,733 --> 01:04:24,319
When Pichugin refused
to implicate Khodorkovsky,
867
01:04:24,820 --> 01:04:27,406
Pichugin claimed he was dosed
with psychotropic drugs.
868
01:04:28,407 --> 01:04:30,325
When that didn't work,
the new trigger men claimed
869
01:04:30,450 --> 01:04:34,871
the order to kill the mayor had come
from Pichugin's boss, Leonid Nevzlin.
870
01:04:37,207 --> 01:04:39,251
Then Pichugin was arrested.
871
01:04:39,459 --> 01:04:42,337
We didn't even understand at first
that this had anything to do with us.
872
01:04:42,879 --> 01:04:46,300
It made me tense.
I started looking into the issue,
873
01:04:46,508 --> 01:04:49,469
I couldn't get any results.
And then - Lebedev.
874
01:04:57,728 --> 01:04:59,479
Then it all became clear.
875
01:05:00,897 --> 01:05:02,774
Khodorkovsky didn't want to give in,
876
01:05:02,899 --> 01:05:04,735
and he didn't want
to leave his people behind.
877
01:05:05,110 --> 01:05:09,489
As for me, I did warn him
that I wasn't up to it,
878
01:05:09,615 --> 01:05:12,034
and it would be best for me to leave.
879
01:05:12,784 --> 01:05:14,328
And he agreed.
880
01:05:16,121 --> 01:05:17,247
If they want...
881
01:05:18,415 --> 01:05:21,335
that I go to prison,
882
01:05:21,960 --> 01:05:27,341
given the system of behavior that has just
been demonstrated to us,
883
01:05:27,466 --> 01:05:29,343
this is easy, they are welcome.
884
01:05:29,885 --> 01:05:31,261
They can do it.
885
01:05:42,564 --> 01:05:45,567
Nastya, this is not supposed to be eaten.
There's a good one...
886
01:05:48,945 --> 01:05:52,407
The investigators and the prosecutors
have let me down so far.
887
01:05:55,452 --> 01:05:57,037
They can't dig up anything.
888
01:05:58,955 --> 01:06:00,749
As soon as I finish my trips
to the regions,
889
01:06:00,916 --> 01:06:04,252
I will start congratulating the company
with the new year.
890
01:06:05,712 --> 01:06:08,548
One evening I visited him at home,
at his request.
891
01:06:08,715 --> 01:06:11,468
I consulted him about what he should do
if he were to be summoned for questioning.
892
01:06:14,262 --> 01:06:16,390
I told him then, "Mikhail Borisovich...
893
01:06:17,140 --> 01:06:21,561
They're going to arrest you.
You've got to leave."
894
01:06:22,729 --> 01:06:24,398
And he answered me then,
895
01:06:24,898 --> 01:06:27,651
"Anton, you can't even imagine
what you have just said,
896
01:06:28,276 --> 01:06:31,321
what you are offering to me.
897
01:06:31,780 --> 01:06:33,448
This is just unacceptable for me."
898
01:06:37,744 --> 01:06:41,665
I understood by then that
the masks had been cast off
899
01:06:42,624 --> 01:06:47,504
and I had very little time
to appeal to the people.
900
01:06:48,380 --> 01:06:54,344
I believe that it's possible to build
a normal democratic society in our country
901
01:06:54,553 --> 01:06:58,265
but for that, someone needs
to be the first not to be afraid.
902
01:06:58,932 --> 01:07:00,183
I am not afraid.
903
01:07:02,769 --> 01:07:08,066
I took a trip around the country to tell
the people what was happening.
904
01:07:08,442 --> 01:07:10,360
And to urge them to take part
in the election
905
01:07:10,527 --> 01:07:13,238
in favor of the democratic forces.
906
01:07:23,331 --> 01:07:28,086
So we flew into Novosibirsk, landed,
for refueling.
907
01:07:34,676 --> 01:07:37,137
I look out and I see
that the entire airfield
908
01:07:37,387 --> 01:07:40,974
is surrounded by men in black uniforms.
909
01:07:41,933 --> 01:07:46,480
I'm thinking to myself,
"Here we are. Very well. Okay."
910
01:08:08,210 --> 01:08:11,004
...Mikhail Khodorkovsky
seized at gunpoint
911
01:08:11,213 --> 01:08:12,214
by Russian special forces...
912
01:08:12,380 --> 01:08:15,425
...Khodorkovsky is locked up
in an overcrowded Russian prison.
913
01:08:23,225 --> 01:08:27,103
After I was arrested I was told
that my colleague, partner,
914
01:08:27,479 --> 01:08:29,105
Platon Lebedev,
915
01:08:29,731 --> 01:08:34,152
had been thrown in the dungeon and told
that he would never leave there.
916
01:08:35,695 --> 01:08:38,824
So I said,
"All right, then you're going to have
917
01:08:38,990 --> 01:08:41,493
two corpses on your hands.
918
01:08:41,868 --> 01:08:44,329
Until you let Platon Lebedev out
from the dungeon,
919
01:08:44,579 --> 01:08:47,457
I'm going to go on a dry hunger strike."
920
01:08:49,793 --> 01:08:54,464
A dry hunger strike is when you refuse
not only food, but water as well.
921
01:08:55,590 --> 01:08:58,343
What's important about such
a hunger strike is that it's very quick.
922
01:08:58,844 --> 01:09:04,140
Either they fulfill your demands quickly
or that's it.
923
01:09:09,229 --> 01:09:13,233
Did your hunger strike succeed?
Was Lebedev let out of the dungeon?
924
01:09:13,984 --> 01:09:16,736
If they hadn't released him, I wouldn't
be sitting here talking with you.
925
01:09:17,112 --> 01:09:18,530
I don't joke around.
926
01:09:28,915 --> 01:09:32,377
I remember calling my editor and said,
they just arrested Khodorkovsky.
927
01:09:32,627 --> 01:09:35,088
And the response from London was,
928
01:09:35,297 --> 01:09:37,090
"Ah, well, it couldn't have happened
to a better man."
929
01:09:37,507 --> 01:09:40,635
I don't want to paint Khodorkovsky
as an angel, he wasn't.
930
01:09:41,136 --> 01:09:45,181
But I was rather horrified
when I saw Vladimir Putin
931
01:09:45,348 --> 01:09:46,933
holding a copy of my story,
932
01:09:47,100 --> 01:09:51,479
saying, "Look, even the Western press
said he was a terrible man."
933
01:09:54,065 --> 01:09:57,819
It was very clear that this is not
about finding the truth
934
01:09:58,111 --> 01:10:02,115
or finding what happened.
It was about putting papers together,
935
01:10:02,574 --> 01:10:07,162
so that it looks like it's a real case,
but in fact it's not a real case.
936
01:10:12,000 --> 01:10:13,251
Can I give you the letter?
937
01:10:14,794 --> 01:10:16,254
Look - Maria Logan.
938
01:10:17,130 --> 01:10:19,174
As someone with a legal background
in Russia,
939
01:10:19,341 --> 01:10:22,802
I had to try to interpret and explain this
to American lawyers.
940
01:10:24,012 --> 01:10:26,264
Khodorkovsky and Lebedev
were put in a cage
941
01:10:26,556 --> 01:10:29,643
to show everyone who is the boss here.
942
01:10:30,894 --> 01:10:34,731
Khodorkovsky was accused of tax evasion,
embezzlement, all these things.
943
01:10:35,106 --> 01:10:39,861
But, it's particularly hard to say
whether or not he's guilty
944
01:10:40,028 --> 01:10:43,365
because the law was in such
a fluid state in those years.
945
01:10:43,990 --> 01:10:46,826
All the other oligarchs
did exactly the same things,
946
01:10:47,327 --> 01:10:49,829
and they were free to keep doing it.
947
01:10:52,082 --> 01:10:55,794
During the first trial, the Russian
attorneys were trying to pretend
948
01:10:55,961 --> 01:10:57,796
like they're defending an ordinary case.
949
01:10:58,672 --> 01:10:59,881
That was a mistake.
950
01:11:00,298 --> 01:11:04,344
I demonstrated that I was participating
in a legal procedure.
951
01:11:04,552 --> 01:11:08,139
But it was not a legal procedure.
952
01:11:08,932 --> 01:11:10,558
The state prosecution...
953
01:11:11,351 --> 01:11:14,396
The Russian prosecutors think
the more papers they put together,
954
01:11:14,562 --> 01:11:15,897
the more it looks legitimate.
955
01:11:16,314 --> 01:11:20,360
There were, like, hundreds of volumes
of material of basically nothing.
956
01:11:21,111 --> 01:11:23,780
For example, they used
company telephone directory
957
01:11:24,239 --> 01:11:26,616
as an evidence of the criminal enterprise.
958
01:11:29,828 --> 01:11:33,707
There were two lines of attack,
if you will.
959
01:11:34,249 --> 01:11:36,584
One line was on Khodorkovsky.
960
01:11:37,335 --> 01:11:41,631
On top of that, they mounted an
attack on the Yukos company.
961
01:11:47,887 --> 01:11:51,975
Yukos as a company was accused
of not paying taxes for six years.
962
01:11:53,268 --> 01:11:56,396
Khodorkovsky was discussing payment
of back taxes
963
01:11:56,521 --> 01:12:00,942
that would settle Yukos's debts
to the state.
964
01:12:01,693 --> 01:12:04,362
And when Yukos agreed to that,
then another demand would come in.
965
01:12:04,529 --> 01:12:06,239
The demand would be higher this time.
966
01:12:06,614 --> 01:12:10,285
So it wasn't a case of wanting to recoup
the taxes that hadn't been paid.
967
01:12:10,452 --> 01:12:13,413
It was a case of wanting to destroy Yukos.
968
01:12:16,583 --> 01:12:18,585
There was a bankruptcy auction.
969
01:12:19,586 --> 01:12:23,965
And I was denied access to it
with no basically legitimate reason.
970
01:12:24,716 --> 01:12:26,801
Can I show you the letter? No?
971
01:12:28,720 --> 01:12:32,557
...recognize as participants
of the auction,
972
01:12:32,807 --> 01:12:35,143
the LLC, Baikal Finance Group...
973
01:12:35,727 --> 01:12:39,105
A mysterious newly created company,
Baikal Finance Group,
974
01:12:39,481 --> 01:12:41,691
suddenly emerged to bid for Yukos.
975
01:12:42,567 --> 01:12:44,235
But Baikal had no assets
976
01:12:44,444 --> 01:12:48,406
and its headquarters turned out to be
a vodka bar two hours outside of Moscow.
977
01:12:53,161 --> 01:12:54,954
When Baikal won the auction,
978
01:12:55,205 --> 01:12:57,874
it sold Yukos
to the government controlled, Rosneft.
979
01:12:58,750 --> 01:12:59,918
ROSNEFT
980
01:13:00,043 --> 01:13:02,295
Rosneft is the state oil company
and it is run
981
01:13:02,420 --> 01:13:06,257
by one of Putin's closest friends,
Igor Sechin.
982
01:13:08,384 --> 01:13:10,178
Sechin was Putin's man
983
01:13:10,595 --> 01:13:14,390
and when Putin renationalized
a lot of companies,
984
01:13:14,599 --> 01:13:16,309
he created a new class.
985
01:13:17,143 --> 01:13:19,646
Oligarch 2.0.
986
01:13:25,151 --> 01:13:26,653
You all know perfectly well
987
01:13:26,820 --> 01:13:29,906
how privatization took place
in the early '90s.
988
01:13:30,865 --> 01:13:34,661
Many market players of that time
received state property
989
01:13:35,912 --> 01:13:39,290
worth many billions.
990
01:13:40,125 --> 01:13:44,587
Today, the state,
using absolutely legal market tools,
991
01:13:44,796 --> 01:13:47,382
establishes its interests.
992
01:13:48,842 --> 01:13:50,218
I think this is quite normal.
993
01:13:55,056 --> 01:13:57,016
ROSNEFT
994
01:14:07,819 --> 01:14:11,281
In most countries in the world,
oil companies are owned by the state.
995
01:14:11,656 --> 01:14:12,782
Nothing wrong with that.
996
01:14:13,241 --> 01:14:15,118
Good news for the Russians.
997
01:14:15,660 --> 01:14:18,580
Yeah. That's how 99 percent
of the people saw it.
998
01:14:28,798 --> 01:14:32,093
KHORDOVSKY, GO TO PRISON!
999
01:14:32,468 --> 01:14:35,763
He stole from the state, not from me.
From the state.
1000
01:14:35,930 --> 01:14:37,015
And we are the state.
1001
01:14:38,474 --> 01:14:41,811
PUTIN, PROTECT US
FROM PEOPLE LIKE KHODORKOVSKY
1002
01:14:44,939 --> 01:14:47,567
I swear, that in exercising the powers
1003
01:14:47,901 --> 01:14:50,069
of the President
of the Russian Federation...
1004
01:14:50,570 --> 01:14:53,865
The fact that the oligarchs
were so reviled
1005
01:14:54,032 --> 01:14:56,826
and resented by the Russian people
1006
01:14:57,160 --> 01:15:00,496
was a fantastically useful tool for Putin.
1007
01:15:01,581 --> 01:15:03,875
Putin very famously and publicly declared,
1008
01:15:04,334 --> 01:15:07,212
"I'm going to destroy the oligarchs
as a class."
1009
01:15:07,921 --> 01:15:10,548
And every Russian would know
where that quotation came from
1010
01:15:10,757 --> 01:15:12,884
because Stalin said, very famously,
1011
01:15:13,218 --> 01:15:16,846
"I'm going to destroy the rich peasants
as a class."
1012
01:15:17,305 --> 01:15:20,350
And when he did bring
the oligarchs to heel,
1013
01:15:20,683 --> 01:15:21,935
it was incredibly popular.
1014
01:15:27,482 --> 01:15:30,401
What he said to Khodorkovsky
and to the country,
1015
01:15:30,568 --> 01:15:32,487
is that nothing belongs to you.
1016
01:15:32,737 --> 01:15:35,156
That you have no legitimate right to it.
1017
01:15:35,615 --> 01:15:39,661
We control everything and we can
take it away from you, if you cross us.
1018
01:15:49,254 --> 01:15:51,339
In the first trial, they could
have given him a maximum of ten.
1019
01:15:51,464 --> 01:15:54,050
The prosecution asked for ten.
The court gave him nine.
1020
01:15:56,094 --> 01:16:02,809
-Have you lost faith in this country?
-I lost it the day we elected Putin.
1021
01:16:06,020 --> 01:16:10,942
We will fight to free him because he
was imprisoned for God knows what.
1022
01:16:11,776 --> 01:16:14,821
We still can't understand
what they were saying.
1023
01:16:29,627 --> 01:16:31,671
They put me into a rail car.
1024
01:16:33,131 --> 01:16:34,632
And off we went.
1025
01:16:55,403 --> 01:16:57,989
Based on the number of lunch boxes,
1026
01:16:58,406 --> 01:17:00,199
you can have an idea
of where they're taking you,
1027
01:17:00,825 --> 01:17:03,411
because you get one lunch box
per day.
1028
01:17:04,203 --> 01:17:07,749
I counted seven lunches in there.
1029
01:17:07,957 --> 01:17:08,875
Where?!?
1030
01:17:39,280 --> 01:17:43,159
This was a heavy place,
right on the border of the Chinese desert.
1031
01:17:43,910 --> 01:17:46,037
It felt like Mars.
1032
01:17:50,249 --> 01:17:51,542
"Rise at 6:45.
1033
01:17:52,835 --> 01:17:56,381
Breakfast is what time is left.
I have an hour to pack up,
1034
01:17:56,547 --> 01:17:59,050
including exercise,
the inevitable shaving
1035
01:17:59,467 --> 01:18:02,804
and listening to official news
on state channels.
1036
01:18:04,472 --> 01:18:06,849
It's just that every morning
I think of my children.
1037
01:18:07,558 --> 01:18:11,437
They would be getting ready
to go to their "work" just as I was.
1038
01:18:17,860 --> 01:18:19,070
And your kids grow up...
1039
01:18:21,280 --> 01:18:24,492
My son got married,
my daughter is starting college.
1040
01:18:25,493 --> 01:18:28,371
The younger ones just started school
and all that without me around.
1041
01:18:28,955 --> 01:18:30,748
I'm afraid they'll finish it
without me as well.
1042
01:18:31,541 --> 01:18:34,919
My wife promises me she'll know
how to explain that to them.
1043
01:18:36,462 --> 01:18:38,214
My parents are not getting younger.
1044
01:18:48,433 --> 01:18:52,937
The hardest thing in prison routine
is being unable to predict one's future.
1045
01:18:55,273 --> 01:18:56,899
The guards are well aware of that
1046
01:18:57,233 --> 01:18:59,944
and they use it
for psychological pressure."
1047
01:19:11,497 --> 01:19:15,835
Do you think that being in prison
gave you special insight into Putin
1048
01:19:15,960 --> 01:19:17,211
and the people around him?
1049
01:19:18,087 --> 01:19:18,921
Yes.
1050
01:19:20,840 --> 01:19:23,176
The way that the criminals think
1051
01:19:23,342 --> 01:19:27,472
is exactly the way that the criminal group
around Putin thinks.
1052
01:19:27,930 --> 01:19:29,932
It's a criminal mentality.
1053
01:19:31,601 --> 01:19:37,857
In the criminal world, building relations
starts with the use of force,
1054
01:19:38,065 --> 01:19:40,318
because everything is built on force.
1055
01:19:40,443 --> 01:19:44,572
I use force against you,
and I see how you react.
1056
01:19:46,157 --> 01:19:50,495
If you resist, if we're of equal force,
1057
01:19:50,995 --> 01:19:52,288
now we can talk.
1058
01:19:53,164 --> 01:19:56,250
If you want to achieve something
in prison,
1059
01:19:57,043 --> 01:19:58,920
you've got to put your life on the line.
1060
01:20:07,178 --> 01:20:09,180
My people told me that
1061
01:20:09,555 --> 01:20:13,267
the head of my legal department at Yukos,
Vasily Aleksanyan,
1062
01:20:13,392 --> 01:20:17,355
had been put in jail, too.
1063
01:20:19,774 --> 01:20:25,238
He spent a year there
and it turned out he was HIV-positive.
1064
01:20:27,532 --> 01:20:32,203
Have I blown up a train?
Have I killed 200 people?
1065
01:20:32,828 --> 01:20:34,080
What the...?
1066
01:20:34,330 --> 01:20:38,668
How can you justify what is going on here?
1067
01:20:43,339 --> 01:20:46,551
People from the prosecutor's office
came to him and told him,
1068
01:20:47,426 --> 01:20:48,678
"We know that you're gravely ill.
1069
01:20:49,262 --> 01:20:53,307
Testify against Khodorkovsky
and we will release you."
1070
01:20:54,517 --> 01:20:56,602
He said no, that would be false testimony.
1071
01:20:59,939 --> 01:21:03,859
We demanded that he be transferred
to a civilian hospital.
1072
01:21:05,528 --> 01:21:06,487
They refused.
1073
01:21:09,031 --> 01:21:12,577
And I said, "I announce a hunger strike
1074
01:21:12,785 --> 01:21:18,457
until a decision is made on his transfer
to a normal civilian hospital."
1075
01:21:20,543 --> 01:21:22,587
People need to understand
that you're ready to croak.
1076
01:21:23,254 --> 01:21:25,965
If you're ready to croak,
you can get something out of them.
1077
01:21:35,683 --> 01:21:38,269
They satisfied my demand after ten days.
1078
01:21:40,855 --> 01:21:42,523
In the end he got full blown AIDS.
1079
01:21:43,482 --> 01:21:47,987
From stage 1 to stage 4 in one year.
1080
01:21:50,448 --> 01:21:52,575
They released him and he died soon after.
1081
01:21:53,951 --> 01:21:55,620
Of course, this was murder.
1082
01:22:12,136 --> 01:22:14,639
Former oil tycoon, Mikhail Khodorkovsky,
1083
01:22:14,805 --> 01:22:18,017
who was jailed for embezzlement
and tax evasion in 2003,
1084
01:22:18,184 --> 01:22:19,268
is back in court.
1085
01:22:19,602 --> 01:22:23,814
New charges brought against him
could see his term extended until 2017.
1086
01:22:31,155 --> 01:22:32,156
The second trial was announced
1087
01:22:32,323 --> 01:22:36,577
when Khodorkovsky was coming up
to the point where he might get parole.
1088
01:22:36,702 --> 01:22:40,373
It seems fairly clear
Putin did not want him to get parole.
1089
01:22:40,831 --> 01:22:42,583
As for Khodorkovsky,
1090
01:22:43,167 --> 01:22:45,544
I believe that a thief should sit in jail.
1091
01:22:50,800 --> 01:22:54,929
They accused me of stealing
all the oil that Yukos had produced
1092
01:22:55,096 --> 01:22:57,807
in the entire time that I had worked
at Yukos,
1093
01:22:58,224 --> 01:23:00,142
plus another 70 million tons.
1094
01:23:04,480 --> 01:23:06,982
The second trial was a sequel
in black comedy.
1095
01:23:07,650 --> 01:23:10,486
In the first trial, the government
convicted Khodorkovsky
1096
01:23:10,695 --> 01:23:12,947
for not paying taxes on the oil he sold.
1097
01:23:13,572 --> 01:23:16,325
In the second, the government claimed
he had never sold the oil.
1098
01:23:16,575 --> 01:23:17,785
He had stolen it.
1099
01:23:18,536 --> 01:23:20,663
But if he had stolen it,
where did he put it?
1100
01:23:21,497 --> 01:23:23,958
And if he never sold it,
why did he owe the taxes?
1101
01:23:25,918 --> 01:23:32,800
The idea that Yukos stole from themselves
all the oil that was mined was just wild.
1102
01:23:35,344 --> 01:23:41,934
Being accused of physically
stealing 350 million tons of oil
1103
01:23:42,226 --> 01:23:45,229
is not only something that is impossible
to prove,
1104
01:23:45,730 --> 01:23:48,149
but something that is impossible
to even imagine.
1105
01:23:48,858 --> 01:23:55,656
It's a set of railroad cars that encircles
the Earth three times on the equator.
1106
01:23:59,702 --> 01:24:03,330
So, even people who aren't lawyers
understood it.
1107
01:24:06,834 --> 01:24:08,711
-Is it not clear?
-Yes, it is.
1108
01:24:08,878 --> 01:24:11,672
What I did in the second trial was,
I said, "Guys!
1109
01:24:12,965 --> 01:24:16,552
We understand that there's me
and there's you - you are actors!
1110
01:24:18,262 --> 01:24:20,848
You look like a court,
but you aren't a court.
1111
01:24:20,973 --> 01:24:23,392
You look like a prosecutor,
but you're not a prosecutor.
1112
01:24:23,768 --> 01:24:25,144
And I will troll you,
1113
01:24:25,394 --> 01:24:29,940
mock you, as much as
procedure allows me to do.
1114
01:24:30,107 --> 01:24:34,069
I'm going to show that you're idiots.
You are puppets.
1115
01:24:34,820 --> 01:24:36,280
You are nobodies."
1116
01:24:37,198 --> 01:24:39,492
The prosecutor, Lakhtin -
1117
01:24:40,117 --> 01:24:43,579
I told my lawyers,
"No need to interrupt him -
1118
01:24:43,788 --> 01:24:45,623
just let him talk,
and let us laugh our heads off."
1119
01:24:46,332 --> 01:24:48,542
He was creating a good mood in us.
1120
01:24:48,793 --> 01:24:50,586
He is just
1121
01:24:51,629 --> 01:24:52,838
a fantastic idiot.
1122
01:24:55,132 --> 01:24:58,886
The number of people
who became his supporters
1123
01:24:59,053 --> 01:25:01,055
increased by geometric progression.
1124
01:25:01,680 --> 01:25:06,811
Maybe that's a traditional
Russian historical habit:
1125
01:25:07,019 --> 01:25:12,608
When the power starts trampling on him,
people resent it and sympathize.
1126
01:25:13,150 --> 01:25:16,195
Freedom! Freedom!
1127
01:25:26,038 --> 01:25:28,415
Shame!
1128
01:25:33,295 --> 01:25:36,674
Freedom to Mikhail Khodorkovsky!
1129
01:25:37,842 --> 01:25:39,927
Freedom to Khodorkovsky!
1130
01:25:44,014 --> 01:25:46,559
Shame!
1131
01:25:47,184 --> 01:25:50,479
It's very important for me
how this trial will finish
1132
01:25:50,646 --> 01:25:52,481
because according to it,
1133
01:25:52,606 --> 01:25:56,235
I'll know which country me
and my children will live in.
1134
01:25:56,652 --> 01:25:59,488
Putin is very afraid of Khodorkovsky.
1135
01:26:00,739 --> 01:26:03,659
And he wants him to be
in the prison forever.
1136
01:26:04,743 --> 01:26:06,287
And this is against Russia.
1137
01:26:07,162 --> 01:26:08,914
This is against Russia future.
1138
01:26:09,790 --> 01:26:13,711
And it means that this is not a country
of law.
1139
01:26:14,420 --> 01:26:15,713
This is a country of dictatorship.
1140
01:26:33,314 --> 01:26:38,527
I remember, a few days or weeks
after my arrest
1141
01:26:38,736 --> 01:26:41,697
I was informed that President Putin had
decided that I would have to,
1142
01:26:41,864 --> 01:26:46,368
as I was told, "eat prison slop"
for eight years.
1143
01:26:47,244 --> 01:26:50,581
Now seven years have passed.
1144
01:26:51,749 --> 01:26:54,793
Nonetheless, I'd like to speak about
hope...
1145
01:26:55,377 --> 01:26:58,631
Hope that Russia can become a country
of laws and freedom.
1146
01:27:02,676 --> 01:27:06,430
I am far from an ideal person,
but I am a person with ideals.
1147
01:27:06,680 --> 01:27:09,183
And like anyone,
it is difficult for me to live in prison,
1148
01:27:09,433 --> 01:27:11,143
and I don't want to die here.
1149
01:27:11,518 --> 01:27:14,647
But if I have to, I will not hesitate.
1150
01:27:15,731 --> 01:27:18,233
The things I believe in
are worth dying for.
1151
01:27:28,953 --> 01:27:33,374
When he was in jail, he suddenly gained,
through his stamina, through his calm,
1152
01:27:33,499 --> 01:27:35,918
through his resolution
that moral authority
1153
01:27:36,043 --> 01:27:37,586
and respect of the people--
1154
01:27:37,753 --> 01:27:40,631
I wouldn't say he has legitimacy
as a political figure,
1155
01:27:40,965 --> 01:27:42,758
but I think the perception of him
1156
01:27:43,842 --> 01:27:47,554
has made sort of 180-degree turn.
1157
01:27:47,888 --> 01:27:51,433
It's not nice to say, but prison
changed him for the better.
1158
01:27:52,726 --> 01:27:57,439
He developed a certain degree
of compassion and humanity.
1159
01:28:07,491 --> 01:28:11,161
"Following the footsteps of many
prisoners, known and unknown,
1160
01:28:11,578 --> 01:28:13,580
I must say thank you to the prison.
1161
01:28:14,164 --> 01:28:18,877
It gave me time to form a new outlook
on many aspects of life.
1162
01:28:21,755 --> 01:28:27,469
As a co-owner of Yukos, I had to make
enormous efforts to protect this property.
1163
01:28:29,430 --> 01:28:32,975
I had to close my eyes
and put up with many things,
1164
01:28:33,308 --> 01:28:37,187
all for the sake of my personal wealth,
preserving and increasing it.
1165
01:28:37,813 --> 01:28:41,567
I did not control this wealth alone -
it controlled me as well.
1166
01:28:44,153 --> 01:28:49,074
I'm becoming a common person to whom
what matters is being, not having.
1167
01:28:49,783 --> 01:28:54,621
This is probably the only right choice
possible, the choice of freedom.
1168
01:28:58,250 --> 01:29:01,670
Prison is a place of anti-culture,
of anti-civilization.
1169
01:29:01,920 --> 01:29:03,881
Here, good is bad, lies are truth.
1170
01:29:05,424 --> 01:29:08,427
Here, good people feel deeply unhappy
1171
01:29:08,719 --> 01:29:11,889
because they can't do a thing
inside this hideous system.
1172
01:29:17,394 --> 01:29:20,064
The most important thing
is self-discipline.
1173
01:29:20,355 --> 01:29:23,025
Either you develop, or you deteriorate."
1174
01:29:25,527 --> 01:29:30,074
If you break, then there's nothing
for us to talk about.
1175
01:29:31,575 --> 01:29:33,535
Just lie down and be a footstool
before the throne.
1176
01:29:49,218 --> 01:29:50,886
There was a period when Putin,
1177
01:29:51,095 --> 01:29:53,138
because of the constitution,
had to step down as president
1178
01:29:53,263 --> 01:29:55,140
and become prime minister,
1179
01:29:55,307 --> 01:29:58,435
and his colleague, Dmitry Medvedev,
became president.
1180
01:29:58,602 --> 01:30:03,148
And there was a lot of talk at that time
that perhaps Medvedev might be a rival...
1181
01:30:03,690 --> 01:30:05,984
power base to Putin's.
1182
01:30:06,777 --> 01:30:08,237
It turned out to be completely incorrect
1183
01:30:08,362 --> 01:30:10,781
because at the end of Medvedev's term
as president,
1184
01:30:11,365 --> 01:30:15,119
he simply stepped down
and Putin came back into power.
1185
01:30:30,551 --> 01:30:34,596
Until 2008, I think Russia was
on the right track,
1186
01:30:34,972 --> 01:30:36,473
and Putin was okay.
1187
01:30:38,183 --> 01:30:42,396
Then Putin decided
to become more authoritarian.
1188
01:30:43,730 --> 01:30:47,025
He also decided that the country
could not live without him.
1189
01:30:48,694 --> 01:30:50,154
That's what power does to you.
1190
01:30:50,279 --> 01:30:51,905
You think you are the country,
1191
01:30:52,072 --> 01:30:57,035
and the country thinks without Putin,
there is no Russia.
1192
01:30:57,327 --> 01:31:01,165
Russia without Putin!
1193
01:31:01,665 --> 01:31:05,335
More than a hundred thousand protesters
flooded Moscow's Bolotnaya Square
1194
01:31:05,919 --> 01:31:08,338
to protest Putin's return
to the presidency.
1195
01:31:09,590 --> 01:31:13,385
The protesters, at least,
could imagine Russia without Putin.
1196
01:31:16,221 --> 01:31:18,807
Fascists!
1197
01:31:18,932 --> 01:31:24,354
Fight! Fight and don't disperse!
Russia will be free!
1198
01:31:26,481 --> 01:31:29,735
If those people had decided to march
on the Kremlin,
1199
01:31:29,860 --> 01:31:31,320
Putin wouldn't have had a chance.
1200
01:31:33,113 --> 01:31:37,576
At that moment,
that crowd was not ready to do that.
1201
01:31:49,463 --> 01:31:51,215
I felt that I was in prison forever.
1202
01:31:51,882 --> 01:31:54,176
I have to admit,
my friends thought so too.
1203
01:31:57,387 --> 01:32:00,557
The only way we could potentially
get him out of jail
1204
01:32:00,724 --> 01:32:06,104
is not through judicial system in Russia
but through some sort of negotiations
1205
01:32:06,313 --> 01:32:09,858
involving Western leaders
putting pressure on Putin.
1206
01:32:12,444 --> 01:32:15,697
How can we make it so Khodorkovsky
being in prison is worse for Putin?
1207
01:32:16,448 --> 01:32:18,325
So it reaches the boiling point?
1208
01:32:20,827 --> 01:32:25,666
To turn him from a domestic issue
into an international one.
1209
01:32:31,171 --> 01:32:34,216
The Winter Olympic Games in Sochi...
1210
01:32:34,967 --> 01:32:36,468
The host nation of Russia
1211
01:32:36,593 --> 01:32:41,265
is continuing a well-timed release
of high-profile prisoners.
1212
01:32:41,974 --> 01:32:45,143
Pussy Riot band member,
Nadezhda Tolokonnikova,
1213
01:32:45,310 --> 01:32:48,355
has been freed as part
of President Putin's amnesty.
1214
01:32:50,482 --> 01:32:54,444
Putin really wanted to see
Western leadership coming to Sochi.
1215
01:32:54,611 --> 01:32:57,114
And that pardon was his gesture
1216
01:32:57,572 --> 01:33:01,743
in anticipation of gesture back
from the Western leaders.
1217
01:33:05,122 --> 01:33:07,332
How did you find out
that you were going to be released?
1218
01:33:08,041 --> 01:33:09,001
On TV.
1219
01:33:11,169 --> 01:33:13,297
Will Khodorkovsky remain in prison?
1220
01:33:13,547 --> 01:33:16,675
Putin was speaking and he said,
"I'm going to sign an edict."
1221
01:33:17,634 --> 01:33:19,970
He's already spent more than ten years
in prison.
1222
01:33:21,138 --> 01:33:24,474
This is a serious punishment.
1223
01:33:25,475 --> 01:33:30,105
He's citing humanitarian reasons,
his mother is ill.
1224
01:33:38,655 --> 01:33:44,161
It was crucial for him that as a result,
I go abroad.
1225
01:33:52,878 --> 01:33:58,967
He had a certain sentimentality
about the situation
1226
01:33:59,092 --> 01:34:00,802
that I had with my mom.
1227
01:34:01,011 --> 01:34:06,141
That my mom had been told in August
of 2013 that she had a year left to live.
1228
01:34:24,618 --> 01:34:28,288
We did have that time together
and that's important.
1229
01:35:22,384 --> 01:35:25,095
I hadn't met him until he was released
from prison.
1230
01:35:26,555 --> 01:35:27,848
We had some vodka.
1231
01:35:29,933 --> 01:35:31,810
It was-- it was really unreal.
1232
01:35:32,894 --> 01:35:39,359
I ask you to regard me as a symbol
that the efforts of civil society
1233
01:35:40,068 --> 01:35:44,114
can bring about the release
of even those people
1234
01:35:44,281 --> 01:35:48,285
that nobody imagined
could ever be released.
1235
01:35:49,244 --> 01:35:55,625
Can you forgive all of those people
who took away ten years of your life?
1236
01:35:58,628 --> 01:36:02,507
It would probably be a sin
against the truth to say that...
1237
01:36:08,763 --> 01:36:12,476
...that I don't have any feelings
about it at all.
1238
01:36:13,685 --> 01:36:17,439
But I've worked very seriously on myself.
1239
01:36:18,064 --> 01:36:19,274
One has to look forward.
1240
01:36:23,320 --> 01:36:26,323
He was really thinking
what his next public step
1241
01:36:26,448 --> 01:36:27,782
in that fight should be.
1242
01:36:28,033 --> 01:36:30,785
And then he said that I'm ready
to make the public move.
1243
01:36:31,328 --> 01:36:32,662
And he wanted to go to Kiev.
1244
01:36:34,206 --> 01:36:36,666
In Kiev hundreds of thousands
of demonstrators
1245
01:36:36,791 --> 01:36:38,502
who demanded the government resign
1246
01:36:38,835 --> 01:36:43,507
for rejecting closer ties with the EU
in favor of better relations with Russia.
1247
01:36:46,218 --> 01:36:48,887
Demonstrators pulled back
under a hail of bullets
1248
01:36:49,221 --> 01:36:50,931
fired by government forces.
1249
01:36:55,143 --> 01:36:56,144
Mikhail Khodorkovsky.
1250
01:37:00,732 --> 01:37:04,778
I was shown and told
what the authorities did here.
1251
01:37:05,862 --> 01:37:10,450
They did it with the consent
of the Russian authorities.
1252
01:37:12,536 --> 01:37:13,662
I wanted to cry.
1253
01:37:16,373 --> 01:37:17,332
This is horrifying.
1254
01:37:20,210 --> 01:37:24,381
Thank you!
Thank you!
1255
01:37:25,465 --> 01:37:31,137
Fight and you will overcome. Godspeed.
1256
01:37:32,806 --> 01:37:33,765
Thank you.
1257
01:37:45,443 --> 01:37:49,614
In 2014, Khodorkovsky moved to London
and founded Open Russia,
1258
01:37:50,323 --> 01:37:52,659
an umbrella group
that funds anti-Putin efforts
1259
01:37:52,867 --> 01:37:55,662
and invests in long range visions
for democracy in Russia.
1260
01:37:56,955 --> 01:37:59,416
The money for Open Russia
comes from Khodorkovsky.
1261
01:38:00,292 --> 01:38:03,461
Somehow, even while serving hard time
in Siberia,
1262
01:38:03,795 --> 01:38:07,299
he or his friends managed
to protect some of his fortune.
1263
01:38:08,341 --> 01:38:12,304
I've got several hundred million dollars,
around 400 million.
1264
01:38:12,637 --> 01:38:17,726
I got another 100 million or so that
was recently released in Ireland.
1265
01:38:18,143 --> 01:38:19,603
So I've got enough money.
1266
01:38:25,734 --> 01:38:28,403
While in Moscow, I spent a bit of time
with Open Russia.
1267
01:38:29,321 --> 01:38:32,407
On the ground, their efforts
were less than effective.
1268
01:38:33,408 --> 01:38:36,703
Volunteers didn't have strong enough glue
to paste up their posters.
1269
01:38:37,662 --> 01:38:41,791
And Open Russia teleconferences in which
Khodorkovsky beamed himself into Moscow
1270
01:38:42,250 --> 01:38:45,462
only attracted the interest
of a few dozen supporters.
1271
01:38:45,879 --> 01:38:48,632
Khodorkovsky is not a forgotten figure.
1272
01:38:49,174 --> 01:38:50,967
But you can't touch him.
1273
01:38:51,551 --> 01:38:55,472
So he becomes more and more,
a TV image.
1274
01:38:55,847 --> 01:39:00,644
Okay, not TV, he is not shown on TV.
Computer generated image, okay?
1275
01:39:01,102 --> 01:39:05,565
And it's not good, of course,
for a politician.
1276
01:39:06,274 --> 01:39:09,194
-Virtual Khodorkovsky?
-Virtual-- virtual Khodorkovsky, exactly.
1277
01:39:10,320 --> 01:39:16,201
Being outside of Russia, he really
cannot influence the situation here.
1278
01:39:17,202 --> 01:39:19,996
He wants to be Jesus Christ
but, you know, he has a past.
1279
01:39:28,129 --> 01:39:31,257
Over time, complicated stories
become more simple.
1280
01:39:32,175 --> 01:39:35,136
Shades of grey separate
into pools of black and white.
1281
01:39:36,721 --> 01:39:39,099
That simplicity can serve
a political purpose.
1282
01:39:40,475 --> 01:39:44,771
In 1998, there were many suspects
in the brutal killing of Mayor Petukhov.
1283
01:39:45,397 --> 01:39:47,982
From Chechen gangsters
to the mayor's wife.
1284
01:39:49,150 --> 01:39:51,903
Today, in Nefteyugansk,
there is only one.
1285
01:39:52,404 --> 01:39:53,279
Who killed him?
1286
01:39:53,947 --> 01:39:56,658
According to one of the versions,
Khodorkovsky,
1287
01:39:56,783 --> 01:39:58,368
by the order of Khodorkovsky.
1288
01:39:58,952 --> 01:40:02,038
-Are there any other versions?
-I haven't heard any.
1289
01:40:03,498 --> 01:40:06,501
Such a person...
and they shot him.
1290
01:40:06,918 --> 01:40:07,836
Unbelievable.
1291
01:40:08,670 --> 01:40:10,171
And who shot him?
1292
01:40:10,672 --> 01:40:12,424
A true thief!
1293
01:40:13,633 --> 01:40:14,884
He was shot.
1294
01:40:15,301 --> 01:40:16,720
By the order of Khodorkovsky.
1295
01:40:17,887 --> 01:40:18,847
We know about it.
1296
01:40:19,055 --> 01:40:22,434
Khodorkovsky shot him himself?
1297
01:40:23,059 --> 01:40:26,229
You know... He ordered it.
1298
01:40:27,772 --> 01:40:28,940
Because...
1299
01:40:30,608 --> 01:40:32,861
That day I watched a report...
1300
01:40:34,070 --> 01:40:38,199
Murder as a Present.
Coming up next.
1301
01:40:41,619 --> 01:40:45,373
Why did Petukhov cross the oil giant?
1302
01:40:46,082 --> 01:40:48,293
He was shot and killed 15 years ago.
1303
01:40:48,793 --> 01:40:50,795
On the same day, in Moscow
1304
01:40:51,004 --> 01:40:54,716
the head of Yukos,
Mikhail Khodorkovsky,
1305
01:40:54,883 --> 01:40:56,426
celebrated his 35th birthday.
1306
01:40:59,512 --> 01:41:01,681
After I came to Great Britain,
1307
01:41:01,890 --> 01:41:05,602
they charged me with organizing
Petukhov's murder.
1308
01:41:06,186 --> 01:41:10,440
They figured that they would use
the last card they had.
1309
01:41:11,191 --> 01:41:16,488
That is, if I do return,
I would certainly immediately,
1310
01:41:16,821 --> 01:41:19,282
in the airport, be arrested.
1311
01:41:19,657 --> 01:41:23,953
And then life imprisonment, guaranteed,
no question.
1312
01:41:33,421 --> 01:41:37,217
Khodorkovsky's story marks
the beginning of a journey
1313
01:41:37,967 --> 01:41:41,471
which ultimately will result in violence.
1314
01:41:42,096 --> 01:41:43,515
And this is where we are today,
1315
01:41:43,890 --> 01:41:47,727
where violence is the only tool
at your disposal
1316
01:41:47,852 --> 01:41:52,690
for resolving social contradictions
or political conflicts.
1317
01:41:54,234 --> 01:41:56,694
I'd like to issue a warning:
1318
01:41:56,861 --> 01:41:59,864
The job of a traitor is one
of the most dangerous in the world.
1319
01:41:59,989 --> 01:42:04,536
Those who choose it rarely survive
until senior age.
1320
01:42:04,911 --> 01:42:07,330
A second piece of advice,
a more general one:
1321
01:42:07,539 --> 01:42:10,959
Don't choose England
as your next country of residence.
1322
01:42:11,751 --> 01:42:13,294
Maybe it's the climate,
1323
01:42:13,503 --> 01:42:15,004
but there have been
too many strange incidents
1324
01:42:15,129 --> 01:42:16,631
with grave outcomes there
in recent years.
1325
01:42:16,923 --> 01:42:19,759
People hang themselves, get poisoned,
1326
01:42:19,968 --> 01:42:23,137
have helicopter crashes and fall out
of windows simply on an industrial scale.
1327
01:42:26,182 --> 01:42:28,268
In England, over the past 15 years,
1328
01:42:28,434 --> 01:42:31,604
there have been a growing number
of mysterious deaths related to Russia.
1329
01:42:32,605 --> 01:42:35,775
Khodorkovsky's lawyer was killed
in a helicopter crash.
1330
01:42:36,359 --> 01:42:39,195
The anti-Putin Russian spy,
Alexander Litvinenko,
1331
01:42:39,529 --> 01:42:43,324
was poisoned to death six months
after he delivered an affidavit
1332
01:42:43,658 --> 01:42:45,535
that Russian secret services had paid
1333
01:42:45,743 --> 01:42:47,579
for the murder of the mayor
of Nefteyugansk.
1334
01:42:48,913 --> 01:42:50,623
Boris Berezovsky was found dead,
1335
01:42:51,332 --> 01:42:54,460
his neck suspended
by his own cashmere scarf.
1336
01:42:55,086 --> 01:42:56,796
But the coroner was unable to conclude
1337
01:42:56,921 --> 01:42:59,966
whether the hanging was a suicide
or murder.
1338
01:43:01,175 --> 01:43:04,345
Berezovsky became consumed
by this obsession
1339
01:43:04,929 --> 01:43:08,516
that he was going to bring down Putin
from London.
1340
01:43:10,143 --> 01:43:14,230
I would be very sad if Khodorkovsky went
the same way that Boris Berezovsky went.
1341
01:43:17,859 --> 01:43:20,153
I mean, your life may be at risk
in London.
1342
01:43:21,487 --> 01:43:23,239
Did you have a conversation
with your wife
1343
01:43:23,364 --> 01:43:24,782
about continuing to speak out?
1344
01:43:26,075 --> 01:43:28,620
I have talks like that with my wife
all the time.
1345
01:43:35,710 --> 01:43:38,796
To say that she is happy
with what I'm doing,
1346
01:43:39,923 --> 01:43:41,841
that's something I can't say.
1347
01:43:45,637 --> 01:43:49,807
We've been together for 30 years,
she respects what I do
1348
01:43:52,018 --> 01:43:56,898
and takes on the consequences
of my activity
1349
01:43:58,066 --> 01:43:59,317
together with me.
1350
01:44:16,793 --> 01:44:17,961
Can you hear me?
1351
01:44:18,920 --> 01:44:21,923
I have invited you here tonight,
my friends,
1352
01:44:22,131 --> 01:44:25,510
to tell you about the projects,
1353
01:44:25,635 --> 01:44:28,137
some long-term, some short-term,
1354
01:44:28,262 --> 01:44:30,598
but in short,
this is what we have been doing.
1355
01:44:31,557 --> 01:44:32,892
The current speaker of the Russian Duma,
1356
01:44:33,059 --> 01:44:36,145
and one of the top Kremlin
political aides, said publicly
1357
01:44:36,437 --> 01:44:39,440
"There's no Russia
without Putin." End of quote.
1358
01:44:40,024 --> 01:44:43,444
Probably the most insulting thing
I've ever heard said about my country.
1359
01:44:43,695 --> 01:44:44,988
At the end of the day all of our...
1360
01:44:45,154 --> 01:44:49,033
Vladimir Kara-Murza is a former journalist
and anti-Putin political warrior.
1361
01:44:50,243 --> 01:44:51,661
He was close to John McCain
1362
01:44:51,828 --> 01:44:54,288
who asked him to be among those
who carried his coffin.
1363
01:44:55,164 --> 01:44:56,916
Kara-Murza was poisoned twice,
1364
01:44:57,125 --> 01:44:59,127
while on assignment for Khodorkovsky
in Russia.
1365
01:44:59,961 --> 01:45:02,630
He played a key role
in passing the Magnitsky Act
1366
01:45:03,297 --> 01:45:05,174
which sanctioned certain
Russian individuals
1367
01:45:05,299 --> 01:45:06,467
for human rights abuses.
1368
01:45:07,635 --> 01:45:11,556
Kara-Murza now works with Khodorkovsky
to provide research and offer advice
1369
01:45:12,098 --> 01:45:15,184
to those considering sanctions
on members of Putin's inner circle.
1370
01:45:15,768 --> 01:45:17,979
It would have been great for us,
1371
01:45:18,187 --> 01:45:20,440
if those who want to introduce
the sanctions
1372
01:45:20,606 --> 01:45:24,485
had introduced them all at once,
and as soon as possible.
1373
01:45:25,403 --> 01:45:32,243
This would have untied our hands
to protect our national interests
1374
01:45:32,410 --> 01:45:36,622
by the means
that we consider the most efficient.
1375
01:45:41,377 --> 01:45:44,505
Detectives came into the Open Russia
office on Tuesday morning.
1376
01:45:45,006 --> 01:45:49,802
Money, credit cards were seized together
with computers.
1377
01:45:54,932 --> 01:45:57,560
The Prosecutor General's office gave
the command
1378
01:45:57,977 --> 01:46:00,938
to shut down our organization's
website,
1379
01:46:01,064 --> 01:46:04,108
and all the websites that are
mentioned on our website,
1380
01:46:04,275 --> 01:46:07,236
including my personal website,
which I have as a Russian citizen.
1381
01:46:07,695 --> 01:46:09,947
And sends a letter to Twitter that says,
1382
01:46:10,156 --> 01:46:13,785
if Twitter doesn't shut down
our organization's account,
1383
01:46:13,910 --> 01:46:17,163
they will shut down Twitter in Russia.
1384
01:46:17,580 --> 01:46:20,166
Open Russia has been recognized
as an "undesirable organization"
1385
01:46:20,416 --> 01:46:25,296
and according to the Prosecutor General,
it has no place in the online world.
1386
01:46:27,173 --> 01:46:29,884
When I see my arrows hitting their target
1387
01:46:30,134 --> 01:46:33,221
I understand that we're doing
our work fairly well
1388
01:46:33,346 --> 01:46:35,556
and we need to keep
on doing even more.
1389
01:46:38,184 --> 01:46:42,146
We do have a new project
of Open Russia, called Dossier.
1390
01:46:42,313 --> 01:46:47,151
It takes the investigative journalism
done in Russia or outside of Russia
1391
01:46:47,276 --> 01:46:48,236
and builds on that.
1392
01:46:49,695 --> 01:46:52,990
A key focus is the circle
of new oligarchs surrounding Putin.
1393
01:46:54,075 --> 01:46:57,537
One of them is Yevgeny Prigozhin,
nicknamed Putin's chef.
1394
01:46:58,663 --> 01:47:00,289
Following a recipe of coverts ops,
1395
01:47:00,665 --> 01:47:03,626
the chef cooks up missions for Putin
all over the world.
1396
01:47:04,418 --> 01:47:06,671
Special counsel Robert Mueller
accused Prigozhin
1397
01:47:06,963 --> 01:47:11,050
of launching cyber-attacks
during the 2016 presidential election.
1398
01:47:11,509 --> 01:47:13,636
Others accused him
of running off the books
1399
01:47:13,761 --> 01:47:16,389
military operations
from Ukraine to Africa.
1400
01:47:17,223 --> 01:47:20,143
When Khodorkovsky funded a group
of journalists to look into the matter,
1401
01:47:20,393 --> 01:47:21,561
they were murdered,
1402
01:47:21,894 --> 01:47:24,480
reportedly by people working
for the chef.
1403
01:47:25,481 --> 01:47:29,402
We are dealing
with officials' involvement
1404
01:47:29,861 --> 01:47:32,196
in the murder of journalists.
1405
01:47:33,739 --> 01:47:37,368
Back in Russia, state-controlled TV
turned the story upside down,
1406
01:47:37,702 --> 01:47:41,038
blaming Khodorkovsky for not doing more
to protect the journalists.
1407
01:47:41,247 --> 01:47:43,958
Let's reiterate that the person
who gave the assignment
1408
01:47:44,083 --> 01:47:47,044
should have shown some responsibility.
1409
01:47:47,170 --> 01:47:50,256
That's what we think.
Khodorkovsky, oh well.
1410
01:47:50,464 --> 01:47:52,341
Open Russia also helped
to expose a plot
1411
01:47:52,550 --> 01:47:55,511
to kill a Russian double agent
in Salisbury, England.
1412
01:47:55,845 --> 01:47:58,431
The attack deployed
a military chemical weapon
1413
01:47:58,931 --> 01:48:03,519
which badly poisoned two people
and killed an innocent bystander.
1414
01:48:03,895 --> 01:48:05,646
Two members of the assassination team
1415
01:48:05,855 --> 01:48:07,523
were spotted
by British surveillance cameras
1416
01:48:07,899 --> 01:48:11,194
and traced back through
their drivers licenses to the GRU,
1417
01:48:11,819 --> 01:48:13,613
Russian Military Intelligence.
1418
01:48:14,238 --> 01:48:17,241
With a perfume bottle full of novichok,
a deadly nerve agent,
1419
01:48:18,117 --> 01:48:20,494
they traveled to Salisbury
on the day of the attack
1420
01:48:20,661 --> 01:48:22,413
and then fled quickly back to Russia.
1421
01:48:23,372 --> 01:48:27,043
President Putin announced,
"We know these people,
1422
01:48:27,460 --> 01:48:29,545
and if I were them,
I'd come to the journalists
1423
01:48:29,712 --> 01:48:31,923
and tell them about myself."
1424
01:48:32,173 --> 01:48:34,425
I assure you that there is nothing special
or criminal here.
1425
01:48:34,550 --> 01:48:36,886
We will see shortly.
1426
01:48:37,220 --> 01:48:38,554
Are they civilians?
1427
01:48:38,930 --> 01:48:40,181
-What?
-Are they civilians?
1428
01:48:40,431 --> 01:48:41,891
Civilians, of course.
1429
01:48:43,267 --> 01:48:46,604
They're officers and if there's an order
from the Commander in Chief,
1430
01:48:46,771 --> 01:48:47,730
you have to comply.
1431
01:48:48,856 --> 01:48:49,982
What were you doing there?
1432
01:48:50,608 --> 01:48:53,569
There's a famous...
Famous cathedral there...
1433
01:48:56,572 --> 01:48:57,698
...the Salisbury Cathedral.
1434
01:48:58,241 --> 01:49:02,453
It's all funny, but on the other hand,
this isn't funny at all.
1435
01:49:03,120 --> 01:49:06,749
It's all insanity: first, the person
who gave the order,
1436
01:49:07,291 --> 01:49:10,378
then the insanity of Putin,
who approved the order,
1437
01:49:11,337 --> 01:49:16,259
and then put those people on-air
1438
01:49:17,551 --> 01:49:19,971
thinking it would improve the situation.
1439
01:49:21,138 --> 01:49:25,184
It's famous for its 123-meter spire.
1440
01:49:25,393 --> 01:49:29,063
It's famous for its clock.
1441
01:49:29,480 --> 01:49:34,151
That interview was sort of
a double message saying nothing is true,
1442
01:49:35,486 --> 01:49:39,282
and, of course, we are lying,
and two fingers up to the West.
1443
01:49:39,949 --> 01:49:43,119
But we are still doing it,
and it's okay to lie.
1444
01:49:43,911 --> 01:49:47,748
It's negation of facts, a negation
of truth, a negation of reality.
1445
01:49:49,959 --> 01:49:52,336
How should I talk to her if she's dumb?
She's got no brains!
1446
01:49:52,503 --> 01:49:53,671
Calm down!
1447
01:49:53,796 --> 01:49:56,966
Who gave her the right to throw water
at me? Crazy woman!
1448
01:49:59,969 --> 01:50:01,637
What kind of campaign is Sobchak running?
1449
01:50:01,762 --> 01:50:03,472
Have you meet her?
And what do you think of her?
1450
01:50:03,681 --> 01:50:05,599
We know each other quite well.
1451
01:50:06,309 --> 01:50:09,979
She was the first journalist
who interviewed me
1452
01:50:10,187 --> 01:50:12,440
after I was released from jail.
1453
01:50:13,357 --> 01:50:18,946
I fully support her because she talks
about democratic values.
1454
01:50:20,614 --> 01:50:23,284
The mass media are under Putin's control
1455
01:50:23,576 --> 01:50:27,038
but Putin does not regard Sobchak
as dangerous
1456
01:50:27,246 --> 01:50:31,792
so he allows her to use
the mass media that he controls.
1457
01:50:33,794 --> 01:50:35,296
How's the campaign going?
1458
01:50:36,213 --> 01:50:37,214
There is no campaign.
1459
01:50:37,381 --> 01:50:38,257
I understand.
1460
01:50:39,050 --> 01:50:43,929
Ms. Sobchak just invited me
to... to take part in her campaign.
1461
01:50:44,555 --> 01:50:47,224
Russia will be free!
1462
01:50:47,558 --> 01:50:51,729
She's doing things which make her
very few friends in the Kremlin.
1463
01:50:52,355 --> 01:50:56,192
On the other hand,
we should understand that all we see
1464
01:50:56,692 --> 01:51:01,197
all this so-called campaign
is a Kremlin game.
1465
01:51:03,616 --> 01:51:08,496
Everybody understands that there can only
be one winner in these elections.
1466
01:51:09,038 --> 01:51:13,167
We're not talking about
actually winning the elections.
1467
01:51:14,043 --> 01:51:15,461
Sobchak is going to force yet another
1468
01:51:15,586 --> 01:51:18,798
few million people in Russia
to start thinking
1469
01:51:19,006 --> 01:51:22,301
about that path along which the country
needs to be developing,
1470
01:51:22,426 --> 01:51:28,474
that there is an alternative to Putin.
And I fully support her in this.
1471
01:51:30,810 --> 01:51:34,480
After years in prison, Khodorkovsky
had learned how to play the long game.
1472
01:51:34,688 --> 01:51:37,483
RUSSIA WITHOUT PUTIN!
1473
01:51:37,691 --> 01:51:39,360
During the run of election theater,
1474
01:51:39,610 --> 01:51:42,238
he wasn't trying to back a winner
in the here and now.
1475
01:51:42,571 --> 01:51:45,366
He was offering support to a number
of political actors
1476
01:51:45,616 --> 01:51:48,702
who could amplify
democratic principles over time.
1477
01:51:49,787 --> 01:51:51,664
It's not such big money.
1478
01:51:51,831 --> 01:51:55,167
If we're talking about the activity
in Russia,
1479
01:51:55,418 --> 01:52:00,089
we're talking about hundreds of thousands,
maybe low millions of dollars.
1480
01:52:00,589 --> 01:52:01,882
I've got enough money to support that.
1481
01:52:04,927 --> 01:52:06,595
Khodorkovsky wanted to speak by proxy
1482
01:52:06,846 --> 01:52:10,182
to a younger generation who'd be ready
for Russia after Putin.
1483
01:52:11,225 --> 01:52:13,978
They don't watch so much TV,
they surf the web,
1484
01:52:14,228 --> 01:52:17,565
a domain the state has either
been unwilling or unable to control.
1485
01:52:18,566 --> 01:52:22,153
One web warrior, Alexey Navalny,
is supported by Khodorkovsky.
1486
01:52:23,154 --> 01:52:25,865
Navalny is banned from TV
or running for office
1487
01:52:26,240 --> 01:52:29,577
but he can get more than
20 million views on his YouTube channel.
1488
01:52:30,035 --> 01:52:35,708
Bribes, yachts, my election campaign HQs,
oligarchs, prostitutes,
1489
01:52:36,041 --> 01:52:38,961
and even Russia's interference
in the American election.
1490
01:52:39,253 --> 01:52:41,422
Did that make you intrigued?
Alright.
1491
01:52:42,006 --> 01:52:45,217
Why do you think that Putin finds you
so dangerous or threatening?
1492
01:52:45,676 --> 01:52:52,516
I think Putin is scared; he realizes that
there won't be a calm, normal election
1493
01:52:52,766 --> 01:52:56,770
with 70 percent of the vote for him,
if I participate.
1494
01:53:01,859 --> 01:53:05,613
Now I get arrested
at every protest I go to.
1495
01:53:08,741 --> 01:53:11,285
We can say
that it can't be called election,
1496
01:53:11,577 --> 01:53:15,247
and we call people to boycott it
and take an active position
1497
01:53:15,581 --> 01:53:18,709
so we're not calling it a boycott,
but a voter strike.
1498
01:53:18,876 --> 01:53:21,629
Strike!
1499
01:53:24,048 --> 01:53:28,844
Nemtsov! Nemtsov! Nemtsov!
1500
01:53:30,137 --> 01:53:33,474
During election season, there was a march
in honor of Boris Nemtsov,
1501
01:53:33,807 --> 01:53:36,977
an opposition politician who had been
murdered by mysterious gunmen
1502
01:53:37,144 --> 01:53:38,103
in front of the Kremlin,
1503
01:53:38,812 --> 01:53:41,398
just a few days before
he was to release evidence
1504
01:53:41,815 --> 01:53:44,235
of Russia's involvement in violence
in Ukraine.
1505
01:53:46,278 --> 01:53:51,200
Boris Nemtsov was killed, as you know,
because he called Putin "fucked up."
1506
01:53:53,410 --> 01:53:57,998
And somebody adopted a decision that
the punishment for such a thing is death.
1507
01:54:04,129 --> 01:54:07,091
KILLED FOR FREEDOM
1508
01:54:09,009 --> 01:54:11,053
Preparations and government rules
for the march
1509
01:54:11,220 --> 01:54:13,597
made it more protest theater
than protest.
1510
01:54:14,265 --> 01:54:15,724
Only certain signs were allowed,
1511
01:54:15,891 --> 01:54:18,811
and the tiny contingent
from Open Russia was not permitted
1512
01:54:18,978 --> 01:54:20,437
to bring along its posters.
1513
01:54:20,604 --> 01:54:22,398
Wait, it doesn't say "Open Russia"
or anything...
1514
01:54:22,565 --> 01:54:24,733
This is an emblem of an organization
1515
01:54:24,900 --> 01:54:26,860
considered undesirable
in the Russian Federation.
1516
01:54:27,069 --> 01:54:28,028
Considered by whom?
1517
01:54:30,489 --> 01:54:33,242
Still, all the politicians showed up
in the bitter cold.
1518
01:54:36,745 --> 01:54:40,082
The most important thing for the country's
democratic development
1519
01:54:40,332 --> 01:54:43,794
is polyphony. Political polyphony.
1520
01:54:46,380 --> 01:54:50,551
I supported Ksenia Sobchak,
as well as Alexey Navalny.
1521
01:54:50,968 --> 01:54:53,846
Although they sometimes had arguments
between themselves.
1522
01:54:54,805 --> 01:54:58,767
Let's try to sit at a negotiation table.
Let's try to join forces.
1523
01:54:58,976 --> 01:55:02,438
Because the main problem,
shown by this election as well,
1524
01:55:02,855 --> 01:55:05,190
is the divisions within the opposition.
1525
01:55:05,357 --> 01:55:07,276
You were a part of this scam.
1526
01:55:07,401 --> 01:55:09,653
You are participating in this,
I don't know why,
1527
01:55:09,862 --> 01:55:12,489
for money, for a position...
1528
01:55:12,698 --> 01:55:15,659
Ksenia Sobchak's family history
haunted her campaign.
1529
01:55:16,577 --> 01:55:19,747
Her father was the mayor of St. Petersburg
who first hired Putin.
1530
01:55:20,456 --> 01:55:22,875
Many believe Ksenia is a secret agent
of the Kremlin,
1531
01:55:23,292 --> 01:55:24,960
maybe even Putin's goddaughter.
1532
01:55:27,880 --> 01:55:30,382
In Russia, where visions
of the future are blocked
1533
01:55:30,591 --> 01:55:35,179
by an unchanging present under Putin,
conversations turn quickly to the past.
1534
01:55:35,804 --> 01:55:39,683
Putin looks back to days of empire
and wants to make Russia great again.
1535
01:55:41,560 --> 01:55:44,855
Russian liberals are nostalgic
for the democratic freedoms of the '90s.
1536
01:55:46,023 --> 01:55:48,108
But it's hard for them to argue
in favor of a time
1537
01:55:48,609 --> 01:55:50,861
when a handful of men
controlled the economy,
1538
01:55:51,487 --> 01:55:55,282
and so many lived in fear of hunger,
violence and economic chaos.
1539
01:55:56,325 --> 01:56:01,330
With such a past, wouldn't most people
settle for a present under Vladimir Putin?
1540
01:56:15,678 --> 01:56:19,223
In the precious land of birches
1541
01:56:19,348 --> 01:56:22,726
To the tender whisper of rain
1542
01:56:22,935 --> 01:56:29,817
I embroidered the beloved name
of the leader with pink beads
1543
01:56:30,317 --> 01:56:37,199
I embroidered Volodya's name
not hiding my dearest dream
1544
01:56:37,616 --> 01:56:43,914
Listen, my dear motherland,
my song is about Putin
1545
01:56:44,957 --> 01:56:51,839
Putin, Putin - we all want to marry Putin!
1546
01:56:52,464 --> 01:56:57,970
Tell us when will we finally
get a chance to marry...
1547
01:56:58,512 --> 01:57:02,391
Putin!
1548
01:57:03,934 --> 01:57:05,018
Yes... Vladimir Vladimirovich....
1549
01:57:05,144 --> 01:57:07,688
Alexey Navalny is not allowed
at the election.
1550
01:57:07,855 --> 01:57:09,440
My question is why?
1551
01:57:09,606 --> 01:57:14,445
Are those in power afraid
of the honest competition?
1552
01:57:15,320 --> 01:57:16,613
Is this a democracy or not?
1553
01:57:17,322 --> 01:57:20,075
Let's ask ourselves: what is democracy?
1554
01:57:20,367 --> 01:57:24,830
It's a subject of serious
and deep discussion.
1555
01:57:25,205 --> 01:57:28,709
But I can assure you that the power
has never been afraid of anyone
1556
01:57:28,917 --> 01:57:29,877
and isn't afraid of anyone.
1557
01:57:31,044 --> 01:57:37,968
Our take on the pseudo-election
on March 18 is simple: action.
1558
01:57:38,427 --> 01:57:41,597
Any active stand. But not on your sofa.
1559
01:57:48,937 --> 01:57:52,900
I'm used to practicing what I preach.
1560
01:57:53,150 --> 01:57:57,529
I can't really walk onto the territory
of a Russian Embassy,
1561
01:57:57,696 --> 01:58:02,159
because that can result
in some unnecessary scandal.
1562
01:58:02,659 --> 01:58:06,622
So we found a place where the election
takes place outside the embassy.
1563
01:58:11,168 --> 01:58:12,961
I ruined my ballot,
1564
01:58:13,879 --> 01:58:17,341
saying there was no choice.
1565
01:58:17,508 --> 01:58:19,384
#SICKANDTIRED OF PUTIN
1566
01:58:29,394 --> 01:58:32,773
In Russia's election theater,
everyone knows how the story will end.
1567
01:58:34,191 --> 01:58:37,194
Some actors play along
and others improvise off the script.
1568
01:58:38,612 --> 01:58:40,614
But for now, outside of the big cities,
1569
01:58:41,156 --> 01:58:45,118
audiences seem happy enough
with the fairy tale promoted by Putin.
1570
01:58:45,452 --> 01:58:47,079
STRONG PRESIDENT
STRONG RUSSIA!
1571
01:58:47,204 --> 01:58:50,457
No one else can replace him.
Putin, only Putin.
1572
01:58:50,666 --> 01:58:51,959
We want stability.
1573
01:58:52,543 --> 01:58:53,919
We don't want revolutions.
1574
01:58:55,295 --> 01:58:57,923
Definitely!
And only for Putin!
1575
01:58:58,423 --> 01:59:01,885
He managed to drag such a country
out of such a dump!
1576
01:59:04,346 --> 01:59:06,932
Darya, you're my soulmate
Darya, you're so beautiful
1577
01:59:07,099 --> 01:59:10,894
I took a shot of vodka and started dancing
1578
01:59:11,478 --> 01:59:12,896
In far off Krasnokamensk,
1579
01:59:13,021 --> 01:59:15,232
where Khodorkovsky spent
so many years in prison,
1580
01:59:15,566 --> 01:59:18,777
election theater has the folksy flair
of a high school musical.
1581
01:59:20,028 --> 01:59:23,115
Everyone roots for a happy ending
in a story scripted
1582
01:59:23,240 --> 01:59:24,992
by the self-appointed man of the moment,
1583
01:59:25,492 --> 01:59:28,453
who claims to have saved them
from the villains of the past.
1584
01:59:31,206 --> 01:59:35,919
The entire country will vote for Putin.
It will definitely be him.
1585
01:59:36,545 --> 01:59:39,172
Because... after...
1586
01:59:40,340 --> 01:59:43,093
Boris Nikolayevich Yeltsin
screwed up so much.
1587
01:59:44,303 --> 01:59:45,262
Horror.
1588
01:59:46,138 --> 01:59:48,974
So much to put back in order.
1589
01:59:51,184 --> 01:59:54,021
And Gorbachev started it.
1590
01:59:58,817 --> 02:00:00,027
Thank you!
1591
02:00:01,361 --> 02:00:03,739
You are our common team.
1592
02:00:03,989 --> 02:00:06,283
And I am a member of your team.
1593
02:00:06,950 --> 02:00:11,788
And everybody who voted today
is our big national team.
1594
02:00:14,541 --> 02:00:17,628
It is very important
to preserve this unity, my dear friends.
1595
02:00:18,086 --> 02:00:23,842
It is very important to win over those who
might have voted for other candidates.
1596
02:00:25,510 --> 02:00:28,597
After Putin's next term, can you imagine
that he will step down
1597
02:00:28,722 --> 02:00:30,724
or do you think
he will just keep going forever?
1598
02:00:31,850 --> 02:00:32,893
Who knows?
1599
02:00:37,022 --> 02:00:41,443
Russia! Russia!
1600
02:00:42,027 --> 02:00:43,862
Russia!
1601
02:00:44,363 --> 02:00:46,573
Putin is now 18 years in power.
1602
02:00:47,199 --> 02:00:51,453
He has this group of friends around him
who are now fabulously rich
1603
02:00:51,578 --> 02:00:53,914
and, of course,
they don't want to see him go.
1604
02:00:55,332 --> 02:00:59,419
Their whole wealth comes only from him.
1605
02:01:02,089 --> 02:01:03,966
It's very hard to get out of this.
1606
02:01:11,181 --> 02:01:13,016
What do you think
is Putin's worst nightmare?
1607
02:01:13,934 --> 02:01:18,021
He's walking the halls
of the Kremlin Palace.
1608
02:01:18,480 --> 02:01:20,315
The telephones
are turned off.
1609
02:01:21,525 --> 02:01:22,567
Nobody picks them up.
1610
02:01:24,236 --> 02:01:27,864
And in the reception office
there is a secretary,
1611
02:01:28,448 --> 02:01:30,659
but the secretary's telephone
is also turned off.
1612
02:01:32,202 --> 02:01:36,039
And he knows that any second
they're going to come.
1613
02:01:39,209 --> 02:01:42,254
I think that is his most terrifying
1614
02:01:42,963 --> 02:01:45,590
and in fact, his most real nightmare.
1615
02:01:50,512 --> 02:01:53,056
It's a gangster model of capitalism.
1616
02:01:53,807 --> 02:01:56,560
For Putin there is a horrible feeling
1617
02:01:56,685 --> 02:02:00,230
that at any moment the system
might fall apart.
1618
02:02:03,734 --> 02:02:06,611
Putin today, in the eyes
of the people around him,
1619
02:02:07,154 --> 02:02:12,784
as Bulgakov once said
in the famous Master and Margarita,
1620
02:02:12,909 --> 02:02:15,412
"He is not only mortal,
he is potentially mortal at any moment."
1621
02:02:23,628 --> 02:02:27,174
I wondered how Khodorkovsky could think
that Putin was weak or fearful.
1622
02:02:28,759 --> 02:02:30,761
After all, in the struggle
between the two men,
1623
02:02:31,553 --> 02:02:33,096
Khodorkovsky had lost.
1624
02:02:34,931 --> 02:02:38,018
But while in prison, Khodorkovsky learned
that you can sometimes win
1625
02:02:38,560 --> 02:02:39,853
when you are willing to lose everything.
1626
02:02:41,229 --> 02:02:44,608
The darker the night,
the brighter the stars.
1627
02:03:06,546 --> 02:03:10,092
What I noticed myself,
as a result of my years in prison,
1628
02:03:10,467 --> 02:03:12,594
I now have a different sense of time.
1629
02:03:13,637 --> 02:03:17,641
Nowadays, I end up misunderstood
1630
02:03:17,891 --> 02:03:21,770
when I say something will happen "soon."
1631
02:03:22,187 --> 02:03:25,774
People start to say, "Khodorkovsky
said it would happen this year."
1632
02:03:26,399 --> 02:03:30,779
No, soon means in five years, maybe ten.
That's what soon is.
1633
02:03:33,115 --> 02:03:34,574
I live in the future.
1634
02:03:45,293 --> 02:03:48,839
I want to go back and change things
in Russia.
140690
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