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LADY: Sid Vicious,
who's real name
is John Simon Ritchie,
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00:00:04,167 --> 00:00:06,467
was arraigned today
on charges of murder.
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He said he felt sick.
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His manager was told
that bailing him out
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pending trial
would be extremely difficult.
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He's an alien,
he's not employed.
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And he's given to violent
outbursts of temper.
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But his manager said,
and I quote,
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"Underneath
that tough exterior,
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"there was a real nice guy."
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[ WHEN I DIE PLAYING]
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* Yes, I've been without
Been down and out
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* Out on a limb
With nowhere to go
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* I was told it would be
One less thing on my mind
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* Not to worry about
All the paying out
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* The piles of bills
And final demands
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00:00:43,967 --> 00:00:48,733
* They'd all be sorted
When I die
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00:00:48,767 --> 00:00:55,567
* I was going off the rails
No matter how I tried
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* If all else fails failed
And part of me just died *
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Sid Vicious
will not have to stand trial
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for the murder of a girlfriend
at the Chelsea Hotel.
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Sid is no longer vicious,
he's dead.
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His nude body found in
a Greenwich Village apartment.
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Spoon and syringe nearby.
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* Then my luck came in
I got a lucky win
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* Hundreds of thousands
And thousands of friends
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* Had no more
Worries for a time
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LADY REPORTER: Yesterday,
police found him
there in room 100.
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And on the bathroom floor
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they found the 20-year-old
American girl
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he'd lived with for two years.
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* Can't take it with you
When you die
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* I was back on happy trails
I didn't have to try *
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MALE REPORTER: Sid Vicious
was awaiting trial
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for the murder of his
girlfriend, Nancy Spungen.
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It was a murder
so horrific in detail,
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only a very sick mind could
have lived with the reality.
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The police had no doubt
about the murderer.
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"We have the figurative
smoking gun", they said.
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00:02:02,900 --> 00:02:04,600
[ SICK CITY SOMETIMES PLAYING]
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00:02:04,633 --> 00:02:07,600
* It's a complicated day
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* Busy people on their way
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00:02:09,467 --> 00:02:12,533
I've always felt
that Sid didn't kill Nancy.
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00:02:12,567 --> 00:02:14,233
Sid thought he did it.
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He actually confessed
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00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:18,200
to Joe Stevens
that he thought he did it.
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DON: The last time I saw them,
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00:02:19,333 --> 00:02:21,667
Sid's got this knife
about yeah long,
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00:02:21,700 --> 00:02:24,133
and he's sort of
sticking Nancy with it.
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00:02:24,167 --> 00:02:26,667
Just gently but, you know,
she's like, "Ow, Sid,
that hurt."
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00:02:26,700 --> 00:02:30,233
So, I was like, "Sid,
be careful,
someone's gonna get hurt.
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00:02:30,267 --> 00:02:34,233
I think he did it,
in a moment of madness.
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Which Sid obviously
won't remember
because of what he was on.
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* Sick city sometimes
55
00:02:40,767 --> 00:02:43,433
* Sick city in your mind
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* Sick city sometimes
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* Sick city
Left you way behind *
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00:02:49,500 --> 00:02:51,800
If you've ever been
a heroin addict,
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00:02:51,833 --> 00:02:54,900
and live with a girlfriend
that was also a heroin addict,
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00:02:54,933 --> 00:02:57,567
it's hard, I think,
for most people to understand
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00:02:57,600 --> 00:02:59,333
the dynamic
of how much they lived it.
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It doesn't matter
how much you love somebody.
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That all goes out the window
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when there's drugs involved.
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I'm gonna be very honest here,
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I was sucked
into heroin thing myself.
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* Sick city sometimes
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00:03:14,367 --> 00:03:16,900
* Sick city in your mind
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* Sick city sometimes
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KRIS: Probably more fighting
would go on between the couple,
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because I would've gone
out to go rat
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someone's ass to the cops
and then,
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creamed off a bit
on the way home for themselves.
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00:03:28,933 --> 00:03:30,600
STURGIS: If there's one bag,
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and they both need
that one bag to get straight,
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because you're sick,
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somebody could get hurt.
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KRIS: You get sneaky,
devious with the one you love,
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but you love them to bits,
but you'd still steal
their drugs.
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Um, this did go on
with Sid and Nancy.
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And both young,
and narcotics were involved.
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A lethal combination.
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00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:58,267
KRIS: What he was on,
he could easily had, you know,
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00:03:58,300 --> 00:04:00,433
it really could have
happened that way.
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00:04:01,700 --> 00:04:04,300
* Sick city sometimes
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00:04:04,333 --> 00:04:06,900
* Sick city in your mind
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00:04:06,933 --> 00:04:09,500
* Sick city sometimes
88
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They were both in the nod.
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00:04:11,733 --> 00:04:14,700
Having been in a few myself,
I'd say he had one of them.
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00:04:14,733 --> 00:04:17,167
I mean, it was just a bit
worse than usual.
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00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:18,567
He wasn't aware
of what was happening,
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woke up, she was dead.
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00:04:19,733 --> 00:04:21,000
This is like a nightmare,
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00:04:21,033 --> 00:04:23,200
this is like right out
of the Twilight Zone episode.
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00:04:23,233 --> 00:04:25,800
You wake up, there's a knife,
a pool of blood,
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00:04:25,833 --> 00:04:28,167
and you're girlfriend's
in the bathroom,
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stabbed to death.
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00:04:29,900 --> 00:04:33,467
Well, anybody's gonna think,
"What did I do last night?"
99
00:04:33,500 --> 00:04:35,467
It was too easy just to blame
Sid in the beginning,
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and not follow the case up.
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I mean, it's amazing
when we think back now,
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that the case
wasn't followed up,
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most of it. [MUMBLING]
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Everybody just assumed
that he was guilty.
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Police didn't give a fuck.
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When he died, they went on
like, "That's tidy."
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Boom, who gives a fuck?
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That's how junkies will just
kill themselves, and...
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Who gives a fuck?
110
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One thing I know for sure
is he certainly didn't do it.
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Sid never, would never
have done that.
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And I know that
in my heart of hearts.
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[LIE IN BED PLAYING]
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* Lying on the floor
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* Dreams in your head
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* Is there anymore
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* Reasons to be dead
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* When I-I-I...
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* Lie in bed
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NARRATOR:
In the evidence photos,
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there's a large TV about
two feet in front of the door,
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which may or may not
impede entrance.
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00:05:41,567 --> 00:05:43,367
There are mattresses
around the room
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for at least three people.
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There's a very clear
blood-stained hand print
on one of them.
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And yet in the police file
there is no mention of this.
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And for the record,
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00:05:52,867 --> 00:05:55,133
the bed that Sid
was passed out on,
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00:05:55,167 --> 00:05:57,200
isn't the one
with the hand print.
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00:05:57,233 --> 00:05:58,900
According
to the police evidence file,
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00:05:58,933 --> 00:06:01,167
there were only four
of Sid's fingerprints
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00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:02,800
in the entire room.
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00:06:02,833 --> 00:06:04,900
Nancy was stabbed
once in the abdomen,
134
00:06:04,933 --> 00:06:07,133
and it took her
around three hours to pass out,
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and bleed to death.
136
00:06:08,300 --> 00:06:10,633
Which means that
after she was stabbed,
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she would have been capable
of getting to the room door,
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screaming for help.
139
00:06:14,900 --> 00:06:15,933
So, why did she decide
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00:06:15,967 --> 00:06:17,700
to make her way
to the bathroom
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00:06:17,733 --> 00:06:18,833
to certain death?
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In all the NYPD police reports
and statements
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the murder weapon,
the Jaguar K-11 hunting knife,
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is left on top of an open
suitcase next to the door.
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Wiped clean of any fingerprints
or traces of blood.
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00:06:33,333 --> 00:06:35,867
ALAN: Detective Kilroy was one
of the arresting officers
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when Sid was arrested.
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I think,
he was never convinced
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it was more than just some mad,
junkie murder.
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As far as he was concerned,
it was a smoking gun case.
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He'd walked in.
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He'd found his killer.
153
00:06:49,433 --> 00:06:52,133
Uh, Sid had "guilty-man"
written all over him.
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00:06:52,167 --> 00:06:55,200
Even though they had
to slap him around and get him,
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00:06:55,233 --> 00:06:57,567
something like conscious
to read him his rights.
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00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:59,533
NARRATOR: In the police report
there's an account
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00:06:59,567 --> 00:07:02,233
of Sid's response
to questioning on the scene.
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It's full of contradictions.
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First, he states
he didn't know
what happened to Nancy,
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claiming he didn't stab her.
161
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Sid also claims
that he took Tuinal
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and slept the night through.
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He then confesses
to the murder,
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saying that they had
an argument.
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Finally, he tells police
it must have been an accident.
166
00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:22,233
Sid also explains
to the police,
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00:07:22,267 --> 00:07:24,267
that when he initially found
Nancy in the bathroom,
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00:07:24,300 --> 00:07:25,800
she was still breathing.
169
00:07:25,833 --> 00:07:27,467
And, after washing blood
from her,
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00:07:27,500 --> 00:07:29,900
he went to the clinic
to get her methadone.
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00:07:29,933 --> 00:07:32,133
He called the police
on his return.
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PETER: Sid was
oblivious to it all.
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I mean, he even got up
in the morning,
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and went
to the methadone clinic.
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That had to be in
the early morning, I think,
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the methadone clinic opens
at 6:00 or something like that.
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He got his methadone
and came back
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00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:45,833
before he realized
that she was dead.
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That's how, sort of,
far-removed he was.
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00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:50,567
[PEOPLE WHISPERING]
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[GAVEL STRIKING]
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STEVE: Malcolm was there.
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His mother was there.
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00:08:00,567 --> 00:08:02,733
And, um, he got bailed.
185
00:08:02,767 --> 00:08:04,233
Pretty soon after,
186
00:08:04,267 --> 00:08:07,167
he got bailed out,
I remember seeing him, um,
187
00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:09,467
down at Max's Kansas City
188
00:08:09,500 --> 00:08:11,733
that particular night
that he actually got out.
189
00:08:11,767 --> 00:08:14,367
There was a little
back-slapping,
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00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:16,667
and, "Nice to see you Sid,"
and all this from everybody.
191
00:08:16,700 --> 00:08:20,767
Obviously, from the way
he acted over those days,
192
00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:22,600
uh, seemed getting him
into trouble again.
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00:08:22,633 --> 00:08:24,933
He obviously
wasn't in a good state.
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00:08:24,967 --> 00:08:26,500
POLICE: What would you
like to have now?
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00:08:26,533 --> 00:08:27,900
I'd like to have fun.
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What sort of fun?
197
00:08:33,667 --> 00:08:35,667
Any kind of fun, just fun.
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00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:38,700
That is my object in life.
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00:08:42,233 --> 00:08:43,833
Are you having fun
at the moment?
200
00:08:44,900 --> 00:08:46,533
You kidding?
201
00:08:46,567 --> 00:08:48,400
I'm not having fun at all.
202
00:08:51,867 --> 00:08:53,200
Where would you
like to be?
203
00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:56,367
Under the ground.
204
00:08:58,367 --> 00:08:59,367
Are you serious?
205
00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:00,900
Oh, yeah.
206
00:09:03,233 --> 00:09:04,300
I mean, it was, you know,
207
00:09:04,333 --> 00:09:06,167
silly just to let him out
on the streets,
208
00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:07,700
and, "Where's he gonna go?"
209
00:09:07,733 --> 00:09:08,933
He's gonna go
looking for drugs,
210
00:09:08,967 --> 00:09:10,700
he's gonna, you know,
go to the night clubs,
211
00:09:10,733 --> 00:09:12,233
and hang out in places
212
00:09:12,267 --> 00:09:13,900
where people are just going
to encourage him
213
00:09:13,933 --> 00:09:15,167
to get into some more trouble.
214
00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:17,267
[PEOPLE SHOUTING]
215
00:09:17,300 --> 00:09:18,300
[BOTTLE SMASHING]
216
00:09:20,967 --> 00:09:23,700
Yeah, we decided to go out.
Sid wanted to go out.
217
00:09:23,733 --> 00:09:25,600
I mean, it was about...
We had to get out.
218
00:09:25,633 --> 00:09:27,400
He was stir-crazy.
219
00:09:27,433 --> 00:09:29,300
So we went...
Decided to go to Hurrah's.
220
00:09:29,333 --> 00:09:31,400
I mean, it was empty
and there was a band playing
221
00:09:31,433 --> 00:09:32,467
really, really loud.
222
00:09:32,500 --> 00:09:34,467
There's a scuffle
to my right,
223
00:09:34,500 --> 00:09:35,833
and I'm like,
"What's going on?"
224
00:09:35,867 --> 00:09:37,800
Sid out of nowhere,
225
00:09:37,833 --> 00:09:41,467
I mean, completely out of
context with everything,
226
00:09:41,500 --> 00:09:43,700
smashes the glass
on this guy's face.
227
00:09:43,733 --> 00:09:46,567
There's glass flying
and Peter's going, "Oh, fuck."
228
00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,167
I grab him
and we drag him out.
229
00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:50,567
And we're just running.
230
00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:52,700
And we're running out
into the street,
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00:09:52,733 --> 00:09:55,800
I mean, people are chasing us,
screaming, shouting.
232
00:09:55,833 --> 00:09:57,267
I'm like,
"What the fuck happened?"
233
00:09:57,300 --> 00:09:59,767
You know, "Sid just broke
a freaking glass in..."
234
00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:01,167
We didn't know who it was.
235
00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:02,333
Patti Smith's brother,
of course.
236
00:10:02,367 --> 00:10:04,567
From what people told me,
237
00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:06,800
I know Patti Smith's brother
was a buffoon
238
00:10:06,833 --> 00:10:09,867
and probably deserved anything
that happened to him.
239
00:10:09,900 --> 00:10:12,267
That guy was just
some drunk moron
240
00:10:12,300 --> 00:10:15,433
who, you know,
it was the straw that broke
the camel's back, I think.
241
00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:23,133
It's stupid, but
a 21-year-old crazy boy,
242
00:10:23,167 --> 00:10:24,867
does something
and he goes back to jail.
243
00:10:24,900 --> 00:10:27,333
He didn't think
about that.
244
00:10:27,367 --> 00:10:28,733
End of it.
245
00:10:28,767 --> 00:10:31,167
So much for protecting Sid.
[LAUGHING]
246
00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:32,333
But he was like that,
247
00:10:32,367 --> 00:10:33,800
he could go off
at any moment around,
248
00:10:33,833 --> 00:10:35,800
and that was the thing,
it was a little bit...
249
00:10:35,833 --> 00:10:37,667
You were always like,
"Oh, let's go out,
250
00:10:37,700 --> 00:10:39,433
"oh, what's gonna happen now."
251
00:10:39,467 --> 00:10:42,667
Vicious is in a detention cell
at the Manhattan Criminal
Court building
252
00:10:42,700 --> 00:10:46,133
waiting for friends
to post $50,000 bail.
253
00:10:46,167 --> 00:10:48,800
Sid was due in court
on the first of February.
254
00:10:48,833 --> 00:10:52,667
Um, a really good lawyer
had been hired by now,
255
00:10:52,700 --> 00:10:54,333
James Merberg.
256
00:10:54,367 --> 00:10:56,133
At the expense
of Virgin Records
257
00:10:56,167 --> 00:10:57,300
and the deal that
Malcolm had done
258
00:10:57,333 --> 00:10:59,867
for an album that
they were gonna record.
259
00:10:59,900 --> 00:11:03,200
What no one understood
is just how good Merberg was.
260
00:11:03,233 --> 00:11:05,800
The assumption that glittered
in his management office was
261
00:11:05,833 --> 00:11:09,167
that it would take at least
until the 3rd or 4th
of February,
262
00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:11,267
to get Sid released
on the new bail
263
00:11:11,300 --> 00:11:13,233
that Virgin had posted for him.
264
00:11:13,267 --> 00:11:15,367
Merberg goes in there,
265
00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:18,233
in the morning on the first
and by lunchtime
266
00:11:18,267 --> 00:11:20,467
it's all wrapped up
and done and dusted.
267
00:11:20,500 --> 00:11:22,767
And so, Sid is released
268
00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:25,533
into the waiting arms of
269
00:11:25,567 --> 00:11:27,233
his mother, Anne Beverley,
270
00:11:27,267 --> 00:11:29,367
and his new girlfriend,
Michelle Robinson.
271
00:11:29,400 --> 00:11:34,200
I happened to know
Michelle Robinson since
long before, um, Sid...
272
00:11:34,233 --> 00:11:35,767
She was around in the days
273
00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:38,400
when I was working
with David Bowie.
274
00:11:38,433 --> 00:11:41,867
ALAN: She had a big fixation
on Sid for a long time
275
00:11:41,900 --> 00:11:43,900
and she knew Nancy
276
00:11:43,933 --> 00:11:46,133
from before Nancy
went to England.
277
00:11:46,167 --> 00:11:48,467
The new girlfriend, you know,
that was quick.
278
00:11:48,500 --> 00:11:50,400
Um, very quickly that one.
279
00:11:50,433 --> 00:11:51,833
But, you know,
he needed somebody.
280
00:11:51,867 --> 00:11:54,400
He needed
that sort of emotional prop.
281
00:11:54,433 --> 00:11:56,300
And she fit the bill.
282
00:11:56,333 --> 00:11:58,400
She was a little bit like
283
00:11:59,833 --> 00:12:01,700
the old brand of groupies.
284
00:12:01,733 --> 00:12:03,933
She always dressed candid.
285
00:12:03,967 --> 00:12:07,267
In those days, kind of
in a semi-SNM kind of way.
286
00:12:07,300 --> 00:12:09,167
Lot of leather,
lot of high heels,
287
00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:12,500
lot of hair,
huge amounts of make-up.
288
00:12:12,533 --> 00:12:13,667
She was very glamorous.
289
00:12:13,700 --> 00:12:16,367
She had a very,
very aggressive personality.
290
00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:19,733
And Sid was like the prize.
291
00:12:19,767 --> 00:12:21,933
No matter what condition,
he was Sid Vicious.
292
00:12:21,967 --> 00:12:23,833
He was the trophy.
293
00:12:23,867 --> 00:12:25,933
And they wanted him.
294
00:12:25,967 --> 00:12:30,933
Ultimately if he would've,
you know, not met his
295
00:12:30,967 --> 00:12:32,533
untimely demise,
296
00:12:32,567 --> 00:12:34,633
that was a good situation
for him.
297
00:12:34,667 --> 00:12:36,400
It really was.
298
00:12:36,433 --> 00:12:40,600
We thought he was getting out
that day and, um...
299
00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:44,400
We were going to wait and see
if he was getting out,
300
00:12:44,433 --> 00:12:47,167
and then have a party.
[LAUGHING]
301
00:12:48,167 --> 00:12:49,167
Whee!
302
00:12:54,167 --> 00:12:57,600
I'd gone down
to the courthouse
with, um, Terry Ork.
303
00:12:57,633 --> 00:13:00,500
Somebody comes up to me,
he goes,"Oh, you appeal today."
304
00:13:00,533 --> 00:13:02,467
He goes... I didn't
recognize the person.
305
00:13:02,500 --> 00:13:03,867
He goes... He says,
306
00:13:03,900 --> 00:13:06,633
"You're friend's gonna be
getting out in a minute."
307
00:13:06,667 --> 00:13:08,667
You know, we're friends of Sid.
308
00:13:08,700 --> 00:13:10,433
So, he says,
"If you go downstairs,
309
00:13:10,467 --> 00:13:13,133
"he should coming out
in the next half hour."
310
00:13:13,167 --> 00:13:15,367
I think his mother...
I bumped into his mother next.
311
00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:18,400
And within like 5-10 minutes,
there was Sid.
312
00:13:18,433 --> 00:13:20,433
After that, then we,
you know, were out the door,
313
00:13:20,467 --> 00:13:21,767
were out the back door
of the courthouse
314
00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:23,600
on to the streets.
315
00:13:23,633 --> 00:13:27,233
ALAN: During interviews
with Sid's mother for my book,
316
00:13:27,267 --> 00:13:28,500
she made it plainly obvious
317
00:13:28,533 --> 00:13:30,333
that both
herself and Malcolm
318
00:13:30,367 --> 00:13:33,167
had talked to him
regarding a possible future.
319
00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:34,900
But he seemed to be stuck
in a mantra
320
00:13:34,933 --> 00:13:37,167
regarding joining his Nancy.
321
00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:39,167
[ EARLY GRAVE PLAYING]
322
00:13:39,867 --> 00:13:42,567
* To the man
323
00:13:43,500 --> 00:13:46,567
* To the man
324
00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:51,433
* Of an early grave
325
00:13:51,467 --> 00:13:53,600
So, you know, like any junkie,
326
00:13:53,633 --> 00:13:55,667
uh, you know,
he wanted to get high.
327
00:13:55,700 --> 00:13:57,667
You know what I mean,
that's the first...
328
00:13:57,700 --> 00:13:59,133
Your first thought always.
329
00:13:59,167 --> 00:14:01,133
What a great time
to get high when you're clean.
330
00:14:07,567 --> 00:14:10,200
PETER: I think his mother
picked up some drugs for Sid
331
00:14:10,233 --> 00:14:13,267
and Sid's like, "Have you
got them, you've got them?"
332
00:14:13,300 --> 00:14:15,567
And anyway we go
to the hotel...
333
00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:18,833
We go to this place
where Anne's staying
334
00:14:18,867 --> 00:14:21,933
and he does the drugs
and of course
they are absolutely rubbish.
335
00:14:21,967 --> 00:14:24,500
At this point, you know,
Sid had asked me,
336
00:14:24,533 --> 00:14:26,500
"Oh, can you get me anything,
can you get me anything?"
337
00:14:26,533 --> 00:14:29,400
I'm in a bit of two minds
about what to do.
338
00:14:29,433 --> 00:14:31,467
So anyway I say,
"I'll see what I can do."
339
00:14:31,500 --> 00:14:32,867
I had other things
I had to do that day.
340
00:14:32,900 --> 00:14:35,533
I was, at that point,
living with, uh,
341
00:14:35,567 --> 00:14:36,800
two French hookers,
342
00:14:36,833 --> 00:14:39,667
who were actually heroin
dealers up on 15th street.
343
00:14:39,700 --> 00:14:42,267
But they came out,
he came out with Peter,
344
00:14:42,300 --> 00:14:43,800
looking to score.
345
00:14:43,833 --> 00:14:45,600
And after the fiasco
at Hurrah
346
00:14:45,633 --> 00:14:47,200
with the pain
and the glasses...
347
00:14:47,233 --> 00:14:48,867
I think... I just...
348
00:14:48,900 --> 00:14:50,833
My whole thing...
We knew he was coming over.
349
00:14:50,867 --> 00:14:53,700
It was like we talked.
There was a whole
bunch of us like,
350
00:14:53,733 --> 00:14:55,333
"Let's not sell him anything."
351
00:14:55,367 --> 00:14:59,400
So, the usual channels
were, um, I would...
352
00:14:59,433 --> 00:15:02,133
New people were
probably dealing in it.
353
00:15:02,167 --> 00:15:07,133
Um, nobody really wanted to,
um, get involved.
354
00:15:07,167 --> 00:15:12,633
We had some shit,
but we decided
not to give him any.
355
00:15:12,667 --> 00:15:14,400
So, he came over
looking for that.
356
00:15:14,433 --> 00:15:17,600
And we said, "No, Sid,
we're looking for ourselves."
357
00:15:17,633 --> 00:15:19,933
I don't think
we did a very convincing job.
358
00:15:19,967 --> 00:15:21,467
'Cause I could tell.
359
00:15:21,500 --> 00:15:24,167
He hung his head and went,
"All right, guys." And left.
360
00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:26,533
And that was the last time
I saw him alive.
361
00:15:33,467 --> 00:15:36,400
At that time I felt
like I was doing him a favor.
362
00:15:36,433 --> 00:15:37,867
But then now I wish I'd said,
363
00:15:37,900 --> 00:15:39,700
"Now come
and see what'll I do."
364
00:15:39,733 --> 00:15:42,567
You know, now I feel
like I made a mistake then.
365
00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,267
And that's when Peter
was dispatched
366
00:15:45,300 --> 00:15:47,467
by Anne, with Anne's money,
367
00:15:47,500 --> 00:15:50,467
to go and get some more
drugs for Sid.
368
00:15:50,500 --> 00:15:52,500
PETER: Somehow I got
in touch with this woman,
369
00:15:52,533 --> 00:15:53,933
who I didn't know at all.
370
00:15:53,967 --> 00:15:57,167
And somebody had given me
her as a contact.
371
00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,400
I went down to see her.
372
00:15:59,433 --> 00:16:03,800
And I got what
I'd been asked to pick up.
373
00:16:03,833 --> 00:16:05,900
ALAN: The things,
what did come back with Peter,
374
00:16:05,933 --> 00:16:07,467
was beyond good.
375
00:16:07,500 --> 00:16:09,333
It was, you know, I think...
376
00:16:09,367 --> 00:16:12,300
It said it was 98% proof
or something.
377
00:16:12,333 --> 00:16:13,700
Which is too pure
for the human body
378
00:16:13,733 --> 00:16:15,400
in any state basically.
379
00:16:15,433 --> 00:16:18,167
About two days later,
380
00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:20,833
I tried to get in touch
with this woman again,
381
00:16:20,867 --> 00:16:24,133
and, uh, this woman
had disappeared.
382
00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:26,733
She was no longer
383
00:16:26,767 --> 00:16:30,400
at the place where I'd met her,
at the apartment I'd met her.
384
00:16:30,433 --> 00:16:32,533
And was nowhere
to be found, really.
385
00:16:32,567 --> 00:16:33,767
I never saw her again.
386
00:16:34,467 --> 00:16:36,267
[PEOPLE CHATTERING]
387
00:16:39,467 --> 00:16:40,533
Oh, my God!
388
00:16:41,433 --> 00:16:42,500
Oh, my...
389
00:16:42,533 --> 00:16:44,300
REPORTER: Donna Floria lived
just across the hall
390
00:16:44,333 --> 00:16:46,567
from the apartment
in which the singer died.
391
00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,267
But she would not say whether
she was among the eight people
392
00:16:49,300 --> 00:16:51,400
who attended last night's
party for Sid Vicious.
393
00:16:52,500 --> 00:16:53,633
I was invited to that...
394
00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:56,167
"Party."
395
00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:58,400
Which wasn't really a party,
it was just a few people.
396
00:16:58,433 --> 00:17:00,167
There weren't even
that many people.
397
00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,433
Michelle asked
if I could get heroin.
398
00:17:02,467 --> 00:17:04,533
I was like, "I'm not a dealer."
399
00:17:04,567 --> 00:17:06,567
You know, "No, I don't know."
400
00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:08,633
"Well, you're invited
anyway, come.
401
00:17:08,667 --> 00:17:11,433
"You know, Sid's out,"
and da-da, da-da, da...
402
00:17:11,467 --> 00:17:12,933
And, I said,
403
00:17:12,967 --> 00:17:15,200
"Nah, too exhausting for me."
404
00:17:15,233 --> 00:17:17,700
Yeah, it was me
and, like, my best friend
405
00:17:17,733 --> 00:17:19,700
and there was Jerry Only
from the Misfits.
406
00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:24,433
Um, and Eileen, three of us.
407
00:17:24,467 --> 00:17:29,400
And then just Michelle
and Anne and Sid, that was it.
408
00:17:29,433 --> 00:17:31,433
MAN: Who was in the flat
when you got back?
409
00:17:31,467 --> 00:17:35,800
Just, uh, Sid's mother,
Sid and Michelle
410
00:17:35,833 --> 00:17:38,733
And I went to the apartment
probably at about...
411
00:17:38,767 --> 00:17:41,200
I would say no earlier
than about 7:00
412
00:17:41,233 --> 00:17:43,367
and no later than about 8:30.
413
00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:46,200
No one came in, they came by.
414
00:17:46,233 --> 00:17:49,200
You know, to make deliveries,
but they didn't come in.
415
00:17:49,233 --> 00:17:51,300
I don't know
what they said, but...
416
00:17:51,333 --> 00:17:54,400
I was there until
about 1:32 in the morning.
417
00:17:54,433 --> 00:17:57,567
HOWIE: None of us had ever
mentioned Peter Kodick's name,
418
00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:00,667
I always left that out because
419
00:18:00,700 --> 00:18:02,867
I didn't know where he is
or what trouble he was in.
420
00:18:02,900 --> 00:18:05,267
I didn't want to make
his life miserable,
421
00:18:05,300 --> 00:18:07,167
and just in case, you know.
422
00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:10,133
ALAN: Twenty-nine
and three-quarter years later.
423
00:18:10,167 --> 00:18:12,233
That's 63 Bank street.
424
00:18:12,267 --> 00:18:14,333
HOWIE: Weirdsville.
425
00:18:14,367 --> 00:18:16,200
I remember it
a little differently.
426
00:18:16,233 --> 00:18:18,267
It doesn't resemble.
427
00:18:18,300 --> 00:18:20,233
HOWIE: I thought this was...
428
00:18:20,267 --> 00:18:22,933
I think the living room came
more up to here maybe.
429
00:18:22,967 --> 00:18:25,933
The living room was right up
next to the kitchen.
430
00:18:25,967 --> 00:18:27,767
ALAN: It was like a small...
431
00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,933
What would you call it,
probably like bed steps.
432
00:18:30,967 --> 00:18:32,733
Um, the apartment in New York.
433
00:18:32,767 --> 00:18:36,433
And there was a big...
There was a couch
going along here.
434
00:18:37,533 --> 00:18:40,233
And nothing here.
435
00:18:40,267 --> 00:18:43,533
'Cause I remember
when those guys came
through the door,
436
00:18:43,567 --> 00:18:45,900
you could see them
from sitting here, you know.
437
00:18:45,933 --> 00:18:48,767
PETER: There is, what you call
a front room,
438
00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:50,500
with a kitchen in it.
439
00:18:50,533 --> 00:18:51,867
And a bathroom, that was it.
440
00:18:52,733 --> 00:18:54,333
[GASPS] Wow!
441
00:18:55,467 --> 00:18:56,667
This is the same.
442
00:18:58,233 --> 00:18:59,233
Wow!
443
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:05,233
I mean, basically
small, small bedroom.
444
00:19:05,267 --> 00:19:07,733
She had a bed where
her and Sid were lying.
445
00:19:07,767 --> 00:19:09,333
Very, very weird.
446
00:19:09,367 --> 00:19:11,900
I mean, it's so similar
'cause it's really dark.
447
00:19:11,933 --> 00:19:15,300
And I remember it
being really dark and, uh...
448
00:19:17,700 --> 00:19:19,867
This is all very, very similar.
449
00:19:19,900 --> 00:19:22,767
REPORTER: The police say
they were told
by the victim's girlfriend
450
00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:25,933
that his last hours were spent
looking towards the future.
451
00:19:25,967 --> 00:19:29,300
HOWIE: He was just in
really amazing spirits.
452
00:19:29,333 --> 00:19:30,767
PETER: We were laughing
at certain things.
453
00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:32,533
Malcolm had sent him
a list of the songs
454
00:19:32,567 --> 00:19:34,633
that he wanted him
to do for the album.
455
00:19:34,667 --> 00:19:36,933
I knew there was the ones
that The Clash ended up doing,
456
00:19:36,967 --> 00:19:39,700
like, "I fought the law
and the law won," and, uh...
457
00:19:39,733 --> 00:19:43,267
I remember one that was on...
It was YMCA,
458
00:19:43,300 --> 00:19:48,233
which we thought,
highly unusual,
and a bit amusing.
459
00:19:48,267 --> 00:19:50,333
And we were going through
the list, laughing at that.
460
00:19:50,367 --> 00:19:52,400
HOWIE: He was really happy
to see everybody
461
00:19:52,433 --> 00:19:56,567
and talking and we
were listening to
New York Dolls records
462
00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:58,600
and he was jumping around
playing air guitar,
463
00:19:58,633 --> 00:20:00,833
being funny
and telling jokes and...
464
00:20:00,867 --> 00:20:04,767
It was really
an incredible thing for me
465
00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:06,533
to see the real side of him.
466
00:20:06,567 --> 00:20:08,833
He was talking
about going upstate,
467
00:20:08,867 --> 00:20:10,667
clearing his name up,
468
00:20:10,700 --> 00:20:13,467
doing this record and...
469
00:20:13,500 --> 00:20:14,767
He had a lot
on his shoulders,
470
00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:18,567
but it was pretty positive.
471
00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:22,733
INTERVIEWER: Another
distinction you have is
being the other person,
472
00:20:22,767 --> 00:20:24,833
who did the same stuff
473
00:20:24,867 --> 00:20:28,633
the night that he OD'd.
Yeah, yeah, that's true.
474
00:20:28,667 --> 00:20:32,900
And, I OD'd that night also.
Did that come from...
475
00:20:32,933 --> 00:20:34,867
Did that come
from your regular dealer?
476
00:20:34,900 --> 00:20:37,700
No, it was a friend of ours,
477
00:20:37,733 --> 00:20:40,533
uh, that flew in
from England.
478
00:20:40,567 --> 00:20:43,833
Soon as I shot this dope, man,
it was fucking strong.
479
00:20:43,867 --> 00:20:45,433
I knew it as soon as I shot it.
480
00:20:45,467 --> 00:20:49,167
I walked out of the bathroom,
I said, "I think this is it."
481
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:52,400
And Sheila just said...
I heard Sheila going,
482
00:20:52,433 --> 00:20:53,900
"Don't die in my apartment."
483
00:20:53,933 --> 00:20:55,833
I said, "Shut the fuck up."
484
00:20:55,867 --> 00:20:59,433
And next thing I knew,
it was four hours later.
485
00:20:59,467 --> 00:21:01,367
I wouldn't say it was his fault.
486
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:02,900
He told you it was strong.
487
00:21:02,933 --> 00:21:04,433
Yes, he did.
Mm-hmm.
488
00:21:04,467 --> 00:21:06,733
And he didn't hold
a gun to my head.
489
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:08,367
I took it.
490
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,633
I took it with a smile
on my face.
491
00:21:11,667 --> 00:21:14,733
About 12:00 Sid Vicious
shot up some heroin,
492
00:21:14,767 --> 00:21:16,633
and he had a reaction to it,
493
00:21:16,667 --> 00:21:19,700
which he came out of
about 45 minutes later.
494
00:21:19,733 --> 00:21:22,867
And then about 2:00,
he laid down
495
00:21:22,900 --> 00:21:24,533
to go to sleep.
496
00:21:24,567 --> 00:21:26,167
He'd taken too much.
497
00:21:28,333 --> 00:21:30,867
He sort of passed out.
498
00:21:31,933 --> 00:21:34,200
We revived him.
499
00:21:34,233 --> 00:21:38,767
And then it was
a good few hours,
I was there after.
500
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:41,467
And by the time I left,
he was okay.
501
00:21:41,500 --> 00:21:44,500
HOWIE: I remember
that it became a real bummer
502
00:21:44,533 --> 00:21:46,433
and we left for a while.
503
00:21:46,467 --> 00:21:47,700
Sid had asked me
if there was anymore,
504
00:21:47,733 --> 00:21:49,233
and I told him,
"No, there's not any left."
505
00:21:49,267 --> 00:21:52,133
I said, "It's all gone,
you've done it all."
506
00:21:52,167 --> 00:21:54,533
And what was left
I gave to his mother.
507
00:21:54,567 --> 00:21:55,933
And I told her, like,
508
00:21:55,967 --> 00:21:58,733
"No way give him
anymore of this tonight.
509
00:21:58,767 --> 00:22:01,200
"You know,
give him this tomorrow."
510
00:22:01,233 --> 00:22:04,433
The significance
of detoxification
511
00:22:04,467 --> 00:22:07,833
is that if a drug user
detoxifies
512
00:22:07,867 --> 00:22:10,733
and uses the same dose
he was used to,
513
00:22:10,767 --> 00:22:12,100
it can be lethal.
514
00:22:12,900 --> 00:22:14,867
So the detoxification program
515
00:22:14,900 --> 00:22:17,567
takes the drug user
off the drug,
516
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,500
but also removes
whatever tolerance
517
00:22:20,533 --> 00:22:22,233
or immunity he has
for the drug.
518
00:22:22,267 --> 00:22:23,833
Then the phone rang,
519
00:22:23,867 --> 00:22:25,467
it was Pam Brown.
520
00:22:25,900 --> 00:22:27,467
And...
521
00:22:28,733 --> 00:22:30,900
She asked me if I saw the news.
522
00:22:30,933 --> 00:22:33,200
I said, "Nah,
I didn't see very much."
523
00:22:33,233 --> 00:22:35,400
And she said, " Sid died."
524
00:22:36,733 --> 00:22:37,900
I knew it was the same dope,
525
00:22:37,933 --> 00:22:39,767
and then I found out
that's what it was.
526
00:22:40,500 --> 00:22:42,500
[ROCK MUSIC PLAYING]
527
00:22:51,233 --> 00:22:52,633
My first reaction was,
528
00:22:52,667 --> 00:22:53,767
"hot shot."
529
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:55,200
Well, they got a batch
530
00:22:55,233 --> 00:22:57,767
that I think
was particularly good.
531
00:22:57,800 --> 00:22:59,333
LEEE: The stories now told
532
00:22:59,367 --> 00:23:01,900
are that it was heroin
that was just too pure.
533
00:23:01,933 --> 00:23:04,233
But then that was also
a very common way
534
00:23:04,267 --> 00:23:05,800
of hot shoting someone.
535
00:23:05,833 --> 00:23:07,400
REPORTER: All I know for now
536
00:23:07,433 --> 00:23:09,600
is that he'd been asleep with
companion Michelle Robinson
537
00:23:09,633 --> 00:23:11,133
at the time of his death.
538
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:13,600
She's an unemployed actress
539
00:23:13,633 --> 00:23:14,833
who was hustled
away from the scene
540
00:23:14,867 --> 00:23:16,633
along with the victim's mother.
541
00:23:16,667 --> 00:23:19,133
The whole idea,
his mother gave him something,
542
00:23:19,167 --> 00:23:20,467
I don't believe that.
543
00:23:20,500 --> 00:23:21,800
I don't believe that.
544
00:23:21,833 --> 00:23:24,233
The only people who can say
the God's honest truth
545
00:23:24,267 --> 00:23:26,600
about what went on
in Bank Street that night,
546
00:23:26,633 --> 00:23:28,500
one is Sid, and he's dead,
547
00:23:28,533 --> 00:23:31,233
one is Anne, and she's dead,
and one is Michelle,
548
00:23:31,267 --> 00:23:33,267
and she doesn't even answer
to that name anymore.
549
00:23:33,300 --> 00:23:34,867
Whether he took more,
550
00:23:34,900 --> 00:23:37,767
whether there were
other things like
pills involved,
551
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,333
God alone knows. But we know
he'd overdosed once that night,
552
00:23:41,367 --> 00:23:43,333
he OD'd finally
somewhere in the night,
553
00:23:43,367 --> 00:23:46,267
and the next morning,
Sid Vicious was dead.
554
00:23:46,300 --> 00:23:47,900
HOWIE: I was here once,
555
00:23:47,933 --> 00:23:51,300
for six or seven hours,
ever in my life.
556
00:23:51,333 --> 00:23:53,567
Thirty years ago.
With this thing
557
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:55,867
that happened here
that impacted my entire life,
558
00:23:55,900 --> 00:23:57,333
I could never touch it.
559
00:23:57,367 --> 00:23:58,500
You know what I mean.
560
00:23:58,533 --> 00:24:00,867
And now, I'm standing in it.
561
00:24:00,900 --> 00:24:04,467
So, that's really, really odd.
562
00:24:04,500 --> 00:24:07,833
NARRATOR: The day after
Sid's death, his mother,
Anne Beverly,
563
00:24:07,867 --> 00:24:11,233
found this note in the pocket
of her son's jeans.
564
00:24:11,267 --> 00:24:12,900
It seems to point
to a death pact
565
00:24:12,933 --> 00:24:14,533
between Sid and Nancy
566
00:24:14,567 --> 00:24:17,200
which apparently had existed
since the previous summer.
567
00:24:18,367 --> 00:24:20,833
It was meant to happen.
568
00:24:20,867 --> 00:24:24,200
Nancy always said she'd die
before she was 21.
569
00:24:24,233 --> 00:24:27,333
I think I was the...
What they now call
a "self harmer".
570
00:24:27,367 --> 00:24:29,933
In them days
it was called stupid.
571
00:24:29,967 --> 00:24:32,233
I think it was
an inspiration to Sid as well.
572
00:24:32,267 --> 00:24:34,367
And of course,
he had to do bigger
573
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:35,833
and better and went further.
574
00:24:35,867 --> 00:24:38,300
The last major British
magazine interview
575
00:24:38,333 --> 00:24:39,367
the pair of them did
576
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:40,700
was for the
Record Mirror.
577
00:24:40,733 --> 00:24:42,867
That was March-April '78.
578
00:24:42,900 --> 00:24:44,133
They were already
telling people
579
00:24:44,167 --> 00:24:45,800
they'd got a suicide pact.
580
00:24:45,833 --> 00:24:48,533
Nancy, by all accounts,
had been telling people,
581
00:24:48,567 --> 00:24:50,200
before she even came to England,
582
00:24:50,233 --> 00:24:51,600
that she'd never make 21.
583
00:24:51,633 --> 00:24:54,167
STEVE: There was always
a sort of faintness,
584
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,467
a sort of acceptance,
you know,
"Live fast die young,"
585
00:24:57,500 --> 00:25:00,267
and he wasn't going
to see very much old age.
586
00:25:00,300 --> 00:25:02,267
She definitely
had like that thing.
587
00:25:02,300 --> 00:25:04,100
I think she just
brought him into it.
588
00:25:04,833 --> 00:25:06,167
Like death wish.
589
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:07,767
I remember going
into the kitchen one day,
590
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,800
and Nancy was there
with her hand over a bowl.
591
00:25:11,733 --> 00:25:13,433
She cut her wrist.
592
00:25:13,467 --> 00:25:14,667
Eating her ice cream.
593
00:25:14,700 --> 00:25:16,400
"Okay, all right, Nancy.
What are you doing?"
594
00:25:16,433 --> 00:25:18,133
"Sid doesn't love me anymore."
595
00:25:18,167 --> 00:25:20,200
"All right, I'll come back.
I'm just gonna
put the kettle on."
596
00:25:20,233 --> 00:25:22,367
You know, it was just
total play-acting.
597
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,167
The philosophical answer
598
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,133
and probably the only answer
I can give you
599
00:25:26,167 --> 00:25:28,800
with any authority
is Nancy killed Nancy.
600
00:25:28,833 --> 00:25:32,667
HOWIE: I kinda feel like
the most logical
conclusion to me
601
00:25:32,700 --> 00:25:34,200
is that she just did it herself
602
00:25:34,233 --> 00:25:35,800
as some kind of, you know...
603
00:25:37,333 --> 00:25:39,767
That's what people
like that do, you know.
604
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,300
Like teenagers who cut
themselves, you know.
605
00:25:42,333 --> 00:25:43,633
NEON: I lost a friend.
606
00:25:43,667 --> 00:25:45,367
Person that I'd known
for a long time.
607
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:46,800
Drug addiction's a disease.
608
00:25:46,833 --> 00:25:49,267
It's like being mad
at somebody for having cancer.
609
00:25:49,300 --> 00:25:51,700
You know, it's like,
it's a disease.
610
00:25:51,733 --> 00:25:53,867
[ TERMINAL PLAYING]
611
00:26:06,500 --> 00:26:10,400
NARRATOR: With the death
of Sid Vicious,
NYPD closed the case
612
00:26:10,433 --> 00:26:12,600
believing he was the murderer.
613
00:26:12,633 --> 00:26:15,433
No further investigation
has ever taken place.
614
00:26:15,467 --> 00:26:18,267
But the police all treated
this like, "Who cares,
615
00:26:18,300 --> 00:26:19,867
"it's just another
dead junkie.
616
00:26:19,900 --> 00:26:22,833
"You know, we got better
things to do with our time."
617
00:26:22,867 --> 00:26:25,333
And this guy's
name was Vicious.
618
00:26:25,367 --> 00:26:28,467
Um, you know,
he was supposedly violent,
619
00:26:28,500 --> 00:26:29,933
You know, of course,
he killed his girlfriend.
620
00:26:29,967 --> 00:26:31,767
They never thought
twice about it.
621
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,500
Nobody ever followed up on it.
622
00:26:34,533 --> 00:26:38,600
It's like Sid got out,
Sid OD'd and end of story?
623
00:26:38,633 --> 00:26:40,633
Is that really what happened?
624
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,200
Is that, just, you know...
625
00:26:43,233 --> 00:26:46,633
Might as well just leave it
at that, who cares.
626
00:26:46,667 --> 00:26:48,167
ALAN: Anne Beverly
was a character.
627
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:49,733
Anne Beverly was very Bohemian.
628
00:26:49,767 --> 00:26:52,567
I first was introduced
to her in 1984.
629
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,400
And we talked
about doing a book
630
00:26:55,433 --> 00:26:57,267
about her son.
631
00:26:57,300 --> 00:26:59,900
And then Alex Cox's movie
came along, Sid and Nancy,
632
00:26:59,933 --> 00:27:02,467
which played
two significant roles.
633
00:27:02,500 --> 00:27:05,167
It postponed the book
for about three or four years.
634
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,900
And it allowed me
and Anne to get closer,
635
00:27:08,933 --> 00:27:11,667
and for her to tell me
an awful lot more about Sid.
636
00:27:11,700 --> 00:27:13,400
[ TERMINAL PLAYING]
637
00:27:18,533 --> 00:27:21,600
GEORGE: The fact that Sid's
mother killed herself
638
00:27:21,633 --> 00:27:23,667
the same year
that the Sex Pistols re-formed
639
00:27:25,567 --> 00:27:27,367
is probably a coincidence.
640
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:29,633
ALAN: You know, we all
woke up one morning
641
00:27:29,667 --> 00:27:31,533
and we had a letter
in the post.
642
00:27:31,567 --> 00:27:33,533
David Ross, Sid's cousin
had a letter
643
00:27:33,567 --> 00:27:35,600
that had a check
in it for ten grand
644
00:27:35,633 --> 00:27:37,400
to organize a funeral.
645
00:27:37,433 --> 00:27:40,567
Whether she was carrying some
kind of guilt over the years,
646
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:44,833
um, regarding her role,
in his death or not,
647
00:27:44,867 --> 00:27:46,500
is very debatable.
648
00:27:46,533 --> 00:27:49,767
And my letter,
basically, was very down,
649
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:51,567
did not say anything final.
650
00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:53,767
Didn't say she'd done
what she'd done.
651
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:55,700
But was very, very down.
652
00:27:55,733 --> 00:27:58,433
And then at the bottom
end of it,
it kind of said to me,
653
00:27:58,467 --> 00:28:01,900
"Do me a favor and make sure
that one day the world knows
654
00:28:01,933 --> 00:28:05,233
that whatever else my son was,
he was not a murderer."
655
00:28:05,267 --> 00:28:07,233
[ FAST TRACK TO HELL PLAYING]
656
00:28:07,267 --> 00:28:09,433
* Out in the streets
657
00:28:09,467 --> 00:28:11,767
* It's down to you and me
658
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:13,400
* It's a jungle
659
00:28:14,867 --> 00:28:17,500
* I'm on a fast track to hell
660
00:28:20,367 --> 00:28:22,300
So this is the house
where Nancy grew up.
661
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:24,333
Behind me.
662
00:28:24,367 --> 00:28:26,700
Uh, as you can see
it's quite a lovely place,
663
00:28:26,733 --> 00:28:28,267
which is a bit
of a big difference
664
00:28:28,300 --> 00:28:30,200
between the dreary lane flat
665
00:28:30,233 --> 00:28:33,733
where Sid and his mother spent
their early years together.
666
00:28:33,767 --> 00:28:36,333
There was only cold water
there, and no warmth.
667
00:28:36,767 --> 00:28:38,500
Uh,
668
00:28:38,533 --> 00:28:40,867
they're poles apart,
yet they're linked forever.
669
00:28:40,900 --> 00:28:45,533
Nancy in Philadelphia
was an upper middle class,
670
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:50,500
Jewish, rock and roll fanatic.
671
00:28:50,533 --> 00:28:53,600
STEVE: He had that thing,
he was charming, witty.
672
00:28:53,633 --> 00:28:55,300
He was full of wonder.
673
00:28:55,333 --> 00:28:56,900
People really were
in tune with him.
674
00:28:56,933 --> 00:29:00,333
And he had charisma for days
and days and days.
675
00:29:00,367 --> 00:29:04,200
She was one of the
super-groupies
676
00:29:04,233 --> 00:29:07,333
of Philadelphia
at that time.
677
00:29:07,367 --> 00:29:09,567
And they were the people
who knew Aerosmith
678
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:11,333
and stuff like that.
679
00:29:11,367 --> 00:29:13,300
They could get you backstage.
680
00:29:13,333 --> 00:29:14,867
I just genuinely liked him.
681
00:29:14,900 --> 00:29:16,867
I mean, there was just
something about John.
682
00:29:16,900 --> 00:29:18,700
Nothing pretentious.
683
00:29:18,733 --> 00:29:20,800
I mean, he would not have been
one of my friends
if it'd been the case.
684
00:29:20,833 --> 00:29:23,233
I mean, there were a lot
of punk hangers on
685
00:29:23,267 --> 00:29:25,867
I really didn't give tosses
about, to be honest with you.
686
00:29:25,900 --> 00:29:27,467
I didn't really hang out
with them at all.
687
00:29:27,500 --> 00:29:29,133
VIVIANE: You know,
Sid was really clever.
688
00:29:29,167 --> 00:29:30,200
He had a great brain
689
00:29:30,233 --> 00:29:32,267
and the way
he wore Nazi insignia
690
00:29:32,300 --> 00:29:35,900
and Swastikas was completely
to dilute the meaning of it.
691
00:29:35,933 --> 00:29:38,500
You know, and people
never got that about him.
692
00:29:38,533 --> 00:29:41,267
He was clever
and he understood concept.
693
00:29:41,300 --> 00:29:43,233
[STATIC]
694
00:29:44,633 --> 00:29:46,800
SID: Well, I'm not stupid,
you know,
695
00:29:46,833 --> 00:29:48,833
and this is why I fool people.
696
00:29:48,867 --> 00:29:50,867
I act like a complete dummy
you know.
697
00:29:50,900 --> 00:29:53,367
"Oh, Sid Vicious, duh!"
698
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,667
But in actual fact,
they underestimate me so much
699
00:29:56,700 --> 00:30:00,333
that they find out
that I fooled them completely.
700
00:30:00,367 --> 00:30:01,367
[STATIC]
701
00:30:04,500 --> 00:30:07,400
When I first met John Beverly,
702
00:30:07,433 --> 00:30:10,567
yes, I could see him
living a long and full life.
703
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:12,500
When Beverly became Vicious,
704
00:30:12,533 --> 00:30:15,600
you knew that he was not
going to make 22.
705
00:30:15,633 --> 00:30:18,167
EDWARD: And, I went
to this audition,
706
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,867
and we were all sitting
in the stalls,
707
00:30:20,900 --> 00:30:23,233
you know,
waiting for stuff to happen.
708
00:30:23,267 --> 00:30:27,867
And, um, Sid and Nancy entered.
709
00:30:27,900 --> 00:30:30,167
So, there was a bit
of a stir, naturally.
710
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,300
"Oh, Sid, Sid and Nancy."
711
00:30:32,333 --> 00:30:35,800
And then Sid, at one point,
turned round and said,
712
00:30:35,833 --> 00:30:39,367
"Why don't you
lot all fuck off."
713
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,833
And one of the auditioners
said, "Bollocks."
714
00:30:42,867 --> 00:30:45,367
Well, you know, as he would,
as he would.
715
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:47,200
And he suddenly
went into a fury.
716
00:30:47,233 --> 00:30:49,300
He said, "What, you say,
'Bollocks' to me."
717
00:30:49,333 --> 00:30:51,900
And he got out of his,
uh, stupor,
718
00:30:51,933 --> 00:30:54,267
and charged back,
719
00:30:54,300 --> 00:30:56,233
and started
laying into this bloke.
720
00:30:56,267 --> 00:30:57,600
So, there was this bloke
721
00:30:57,633 --> 00:31:00,367
being attacked
by presumably his hero,
722
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,133
trying to fend him off.
723
00:31:03,167 --> 00:31:05,333
About half an hour later,
him and this bloke
724
00:31:05,367 --> 00:31:08,167
were sitting next to
each other, chatting
quite friendly.
725
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:09,567
And Sid said,
726
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,667
"Yeah, it's a good way to make
friends by having a fight."
727
00:31:13,700 --> 00:31:15,933
And you know, they were
the best of buddies by then.
728
00:31:15,967 --> 00:31:19,333
When Sid and I used
to hang out, we used to go
out in the evenings.
729
00:31:19,367 --> 00:31:22,267
We often ended up in physical
trouble and fights.
730
00:31:22,300 --> 00:31:25,933
That was before
he was called Sid Vicious.
731
00:31:25,967 --> 00:31:28,200
And it was this
sort of escalation of,
732
00:31:28,233 --> 00:31:29,333
"Oh, we've come home again
733
00:31:29,367 --> 00:31:30,867
"and Sid's
got into trouble again."
734
00:31:30,900 --> 00:31:32,333
He liked to fight.
735
00:31:32,367 --> 00:31:34,233
He couldn't have one.
He couldn't fight sleep.
736
00:31:34,267 --> 00:31:40,367
But he... [LAUGHING]
He gave that, you know, out.
737
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:41,833
It's not that he was
particularly aggressive,
738
00:31:41,867 --> 00:31:44,267
but he wouldn't take
any nonsense from anyone.
739
00:31:44,300 --> 00:31:46,667
When someone says
something stupid, you just
tell them it's stupid.
740
00:31:46,700 --> 00:31:48,100
Actually, it got to the point
741
00:31:48,133 --> 00:31:49,867
where he'd take his belt off
and wrap it round his hand
742
00:31:49,900 --> 00:31:51,933
and just whack people
with the buckle.
743
00:31:51,967 --> 00:31:53,467
I don't know where
that came from
744
00:31:53,500 --> 00:31:55,200
'cause he wasn't actually
a physically aggressive guy.
745
00:31:55,233 --> 00:31:56,667
We're sitting in the Speakeasy
746
00:31:56,700 --> 00:31:58,833
and Paul Weller is coming in
with his wife.
747
00:31:58,867 --> 00:32:01,567
If Sid had just waited
a second and asked me,
748
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,200
I would have told him
that Paul Weller
can well look after himself.
749
00:32:05,233 --> 00:32:06,700
His dad John
was an ex-boxer and all that.
750
00:32:06,733 --> 00:32:10,167
Sid's gone out like a lunatic
with the boots flying.
751
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:12,500
Paul Weller's cracked him
a few punches.
752
00:32:12,533 --> 00:32:15,367
But he had a glass
in his hand,
at the time, Paul,
753
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:17,233
and it cut Sid on the face.
754
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,500
There was a bit of screaming,
I jumped in between them.
755
00:32:21,533 --> 00:32:23,700
And Sid's there, he's cut,
he's got a glass in his face.
756
00:32:23,733 --> 00:32:26,767
And Paul and his wife,
I apologized to them
and they went off.
757
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:28,800
And I said, "Sid, why did you
attack him like that?"
758
00:32:28,833 --> 00:32:32,700
He said, "Because he said
that we nicked In The City,
759
00:32:32,733 --> 00:32:34,567
and Holidays In The Sun."
760
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,933
I said, "Well, you did."
[LAUGHING]
761
00:32:37,967 --> 00:32:40,700
MARK: One night I went round
and saw Sid,
762
00:32:40,733 --> 00:32:44,467
and there was a cat
that was in the flat.
763
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:47,533
And, for no
764
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:51,467
reason he decided,
765
00:32:52,500 --> 00:32:53,900
to put a noose around the cat
766
00:32:56,833 --> 00:32:57,833
and hang it up,
767
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:01,333
in front of me.
768
00:33:02,500 --> 00:33:03,500
And,
769
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:07,200
it didn't last long,
770
00:33:08,300 --> 00:33:09,600
as far as
771
00:33:09,633 --> 00:33:12,633
ticks on the clock,
but it seemed like an eternity.
772
00:33:13,633 --> 00:33:14,633
And...
773
00:33:15,533 --> 00:33:17,100
The cat was struggling,
774
00:33:18,767 --> 00:33:19,767
and...
775
00:33:22,533 --> 00:33:25,667
Tried to get away,
but obviously couldn't.
776
00:33:25,700 --> 00:33:27,300
It was whining.
777
00:33:27,333 --> 00:33:30,633
It was absolutely fighting
to get away.
778
00:33:30,667 --> 00:33:32,667
And just before
779
00:33:32,700 --> 00:33:34,900
it's passed away,
780
00:33:34,933 --> 00:33:37,133
it urinated and defecated
781
00:33:38,433 --> 00:33:39,833
right on his feet.
782
00:33:39,867 --> 00:33:45,133
And Sid was holding it
in front of me.
783
00:33:46,467 --> 00:33:50,233
I utterly regret
not stopping him doing that.
784
00:33:52,333 --> 00:33:55,400
Why he did that, I don't know.
785
00:33:55,433 --> 00:33:59,500
Um, I have no idea.
786
00:33:59,533 --> 00:34:03,567
It's the most disgusting thing
that I've ever seen in my life.
787
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:07,400
And if I could have my life
all over again...
788
00:34:07,433 --> 00:34:11,600
That is the biggest regret...
I would stop him
from doing that.
789
00:34:11,633 --> 00:34:14,300
It was horrible.
790
00:34:14,333 --> 00:34:18,133
Finally put the cat
in a plastic bag,
791
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:21,733
and took it
to the bin downstairs.
792
00:34:21,767 --> 00:34:23,533
It was horrible.
793
00:34:23,567 --> 00:34:25,333
He was always like that.
794
00:34:25,367 --> 00:34:27,400
He just took everything
to the nth degree
795
00:34:27,433 --> 00:34:29,233
and he didn't care
where it took him.
796
00:34:29,267 --> 00:34:32,400
I guess he knew that one day
the person he hit,
or the thing he did
797
00:34:32,433 --> 00:34:34,367
would be the end.
798
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:36,767
He was willing to take it
to the edge, he was willing
to take it that far.
799
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:38,467
I don't know why
or where that came from.
800
00:34:38,500 --> 00:34:39,900
But he was like that always.
801
00:34:39,933 --> 00:34:42,200
He was the guy that never saw
802
00:34:42,233 --> 00:34:43,733
a red light, as they say.
803
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:46,500
Everything was always green.
804
00:34:48,167 --> 00:34:50,667
MAN: However, dangerous?
However, dangerous.
805
00:34:52,433 --> 00:34:55,367
Do you feel if he had
never met you,
he might be alive today?
806
00:34:59,900 --> 00:35:01,267
I don't know.
807
00:35:01,733 --> 00:35:02,900
I don't know.
808
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:04,900
Heck, you know.
809
00:35:04,933 --> 00:35:07,833
You might get run over
by a car.
I don't know.
810
00:35:07,867 --> 00:35:12,867
But Sid, I suppose, would,
at the very best, be called...
811
00:35:12,900 --> 00:35:15,400
Uh, could be called amoral.
812
00:35:15,433 --> 00:35:20,367
He just didn't really
have a concept of what was
good and what was bad.
813
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:22,900
Certainly not for him,
but for other people as well.
814
00:35:22,933 --> 00:35:25,800
Sid especially didn't know
who himself was, anyway,
815
00:35:25,833 --> 00:35:27,433
'cause he was too young.
816
00:35:27,467 --> 00:35:31,367
I think the thing about Sid
and his upbringing,
817
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:33,900
he just wanted
someone to love.
818
00:35:35,300 --> 00:35:37,433
You know,
seems to be fairly obvious.
819
00:35:37,467 --> 00:35:39,333
No father figure, you know,
820
00:35:39,367 --> 00:35:41,367
moved around
from pillar to post.
821
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:45,133
Mama being the Bohemian,
never settled.
822
00:35:45,167 --> 00:35:48,300
You know, people like that
tend to make a fool
of themselves
823
00:35:48,333 --> 00:35:50,767
or dress up strange.
824
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,133
Anything to get attention
and be liked.
825
00:35:53,167 --> 00:35:55,133
When I met Anne
for the first time,
826
00:35:55,167 --> 00:35:58,267
it was almost like,
"Ah, that's the explanation."
827
00:35:58,300 --> 00:36:01,233
Beverly couldn't look after
herself, let alone
look after Sid.
828
00:36:01,267 --> 00:36:04,367
I never liked her. I mean,
it was quite clear to me
829
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:06,400
where his problems lay
and it was with her.
830
00:36:06,433 --> 00:36:09,300
I always felt
there was a bit
of an agenda there.
831
00:36:09,333 --> 00:36:13,367
Well, ugh, kill me
for thinking that, but I did.
832
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:14,933
PETER: What I know
about Beverly...
833
00:36:14,967 --> 00:36:18,367
What Sid told me was, you know,
they used to go to Morocco
834
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:20,167
and then they would go back
into Spain.
835
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,267
And she used to sort of stuff,
836
00:36:22,300 --> 00:36:25,900
um, hash, blocks of hash
down Sid's trousers.
837
00:36:25,933 --> 00:36:27,833
I mean, if you got caught
in Spain at that time
838
00:36:27,867 --> 00:36:29,700
with even a joint
under Franco,
839
00:36:29,733 --> 00:36:31,867
you could go to prison,
for, you know, 14 years.
840
00:36:31,900 --> 00:36:33,900
So, it was pretty dangerous,
but probably lucrative.
841
00:36:33,933 --> 00:36:35,900
Yeah, if we went around
to Sid's flat,
842
00:36:35,933 --> 00:36:38,133
you know, the high rise
where Anne lived,
843
00:36:38,167 --> 00:36:39,733
we could just do drugs
in front of her
844
00:36:39,767 --> 00:36:41,400
whatever way we wanted.
845
00:36:41,433 --> 00:36:44,233
Beverly was the type of person
that if she arrived somewhere,
846
00:36:44,267 --> 00:36:46,600
it'd be like... Sid'll be like,
"Oh, God, it's my mom.
847
00:36:46,633 --> 00:36:49,400
"Let's hide, you know,
hope she doesn't see us."
848
00:36:49,433 --> 00:36:52,567
So, I don't think there was any
particularly close bond there.
849
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,433
I remember when Sid and I
went to see The Pistols
at The Screen On The Green.
850
00:36:55,467 --> 00:36:57,467
And I had this little
vintage dress on
851
00:36:57,500 --> 00:37:00,433
that Sid had sort of cut
really short and ripped up,
made it look fantastic.
852
00:37:00,467 --> 00:37:03,433
I mean, you know, he was a great
girlie mate in many ways.
853
00:37:03,467 --> 00:37:05,133
And we watched the Pistols,
and we thought, "Oh."
854
00:37:05,167 --> 00:37:06,467
We said to each other,
"What's the point,
855
00:37:06,500 --> 00:37:07,833
"what's the point
of carrying on.
856
00:37:07,867 --> 00:37:09,800
"They say all,
they're everything
we want to be.
857
00:37:09,833 --> 00:37:11,333
"There's no point
being in a band."
858
00:37:11,367 --> 00:37:13,333
We just felt like giving up
at the end of that gig.
859
00:37:13,367 --> 00:37:14,533
It was such a fantastic show.
860
00:37:14,567 --> 00:37:17,400
GLEN: When did Sid become
one of our number one fans?
861
00:37:17,433 --> 00:37:19,467
I don't know that he did or not.
862
00:37:19,500 --> 00:37:22,500
I think he was just
number one hanging round
after John.
863
00:37:22,533 --> 00:37:24,300
I think that was a bit
of a double act
864
00:37:24,333 --> 00:37:27,667
and then John was busy
doing something else
and Sid wasn't.
865
00:37:27,700 --> 00:37:29,333
So...
866
00:37:29,367 --> 00:37:31,833
There was nothing else going on
in London at that time.
867
00:37:31,867 --> 00:37:33,700
So, we were
where the action was.
868
00:37:33,733 --> 00:37:36,333
So, he came
and shared his mayhem.
869
00:37:36,367 --> 00:37:39,400
It is interesting to me
that John did bring Sid in
870
00:37:39,433 --> 00:37:42,900
to, like, supposedly be
his ally in the band
and then goes...
871
00:37:42,933 --> 00:37:46,600
But actually, instantly,
he realized that he was
gonna overshadow John.
872
00:37:46,633 --> 00:37:48,167
Because of the way he looked,
the way he was.
873
00:37:59,333 --> 00:38:01,367
The styles of
people like
874
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,300
Fleetwood Mac, Eagles,
and Led Zeppelin
875
00:38:03,333 --> 00:38:05,600
were a million miles away
from this street kid.
876
00:38:05,633 --> 00:38:07,433
So, he needed
to go back to the clubs
877
00:38:07,467 --> 00:38:10,900
and I think that's why some
scuzzy little bar like CBGB's
878
00:38:10,933 --> 00:38:13,600
was where you could create
a brand new scene.
879
00:38:13,633 --> 00:38:16,267
Dory Hamilton,
and this girl Sharon,
Honi O'Rourke,
880
00:38:16,300 --> 00:38:17,900
who went on
to be my bass player,
881
00:38:17,933 --> 00:38:19,633
and Nancy,
they were all friends.
882
00:38:19,667 --> 00:38:23,167
You know, there were different
kind of groupies in the scene.
883
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:27,933
There were groupies
who just wanted to
hang out with famous people
884
00:38:27,967 --> 00:38:31,567
or were just kind of nice girls
who you could have sex with
885
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:33,400
or, like, friendly.
886
00:38:33,433 --> 00:38:35,900
But then you had
the Nancy type.
887
00:38:35,933 --> 00:38:38,867
She wanted to marry a rockstar
and be a rockstar's wife.
888
00:38:38,900 --> 00:38:40,833
But usually girls like that
889
00:38:40,867 --> 00:38:43,333
hook-up with a boyfriend
pretty quickly.
890
00:38:43,367 --> 00:38:45,133
Nancy didn't have
a boyfriend.
891
00:38:45,167 --> 00:38:47,900
Because no one could stand
being with her
for more than one evening.
892
00:38:47,933 --> 00:38:50,400
She was just
really repulsive.
893
00:38:50,433 --> 00:38:52,400
KEITH: Nancy came
on the scene, right,
894
00:38:52,433 --> 00:38:54,667
and, like,
she could've been 18,
895
00:38:54,700 --> 00:38:56,600
she might've been 20,
I don't know.
896
00:38:56,633 --> 00:38:58,267
But, fuck, she's like,
897
00:38:58,300 --> 00:38:59,933
so old, you know.
898
00:38:59,967 --> 00:39:02,600
I just mean, like,
899
00:39:02,633 --> 00:39:06,300
she's just seen too much,
she's seen so much.
900
00:39:06,333 --> 00:39:08,800
The other people
who were very on to the scene,
901
00:39:08,833 --> 00:39:14,367
like Gill Hagenson,
the bartenders at Max's
and CBGB's and things,
902
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:16,633
all kind of said,
"Stay away from her."
903
00:39:16,667 --> 00:39:19,233
She was a drug dealer
and she was a prostitute.
904
00:39:19,267 --> 00:39:20,667
And she was really bad news.
905
00:39:20,700 --> 00:39:23,200
And when someone
is called "really bad news,"
906
00:39:23,233 --> 00:39:25,467
when you have
Dee Dee Ramone's carny
907
00:39:25,500 --> 00:39:28,267
going around breaking bottles
over people's heads,
908
00:39:28,300 --> 00:39:29,733
that's really bad news.
909
00:39:29,767 --> 00:39:32,433
Right, I mean, I thought
she was like 27, you know.
910
00:39:32,467 --> 00:39:35,900
Anyway, and young,
I mean, that's what...
"She was only 27."
911
00:39:35,933 --> 00:39:38,500
So there you go, I didn't
even know she was 20!
912
00:39:38,533 --> 00:39:40,733
This woman
had years of experience,
913
00:39:40,767 --> 00:39:43,533
at manipulation, intimidation,
914
00:39:43,567 --> 00:39:47,800
and, of course,
you fuck everybody as well.
915
00:39:47,833 --> 00:39:50,567
You know, God love her...
916
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:52,267
If she couldn't get it free,
she'd have sex.
917
00:39:52,300 --> 00:39:54,733
She asked me
on numerous occasions.
918
00:39:54,767 --> 00:39:56,633
It's how Nancy operated.
919
00:39:56,667 --> 00:39:59,767
She would go get the drugs
so she could get laid.
920
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:01,533
The first time I met Nancy,
921
00:40:01,567 --> 00:40:03,367
she was being shagged
in the toilet
922
00:40:04,767 --> 00:40:05,767
by somebody.
923
00:40:06,767 --> 00:40:08,900
[LAUGHING] Not Sid, no.
924
00:40:09,633 --> 00:40:10,800
[LAUGHING]
925
00:40:10,833 --> 00:40:13,700
But someone very close
to him . [LAUGHING]
926
00:40:13,733 --> 00:40:15,600
[ROCK MUSIC PLAYING]
927
00:40:22,633 --> 00:40:25,533
DON: Before The Heartbreakers,
Nancy came over,
928
00:40:25,567 --> 00:40:26,833
at The Roxy in London.
929
00:40:26,867 --> 00:40:29,267
It was speed
in the toilets upstairs
930
00:40:29,300 --> 00:40:31,567
and weed
in the basement downstairs.
931
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:34,267
And as I said before,
we had beer to wash it down.
932
00:40:34,300 --> 00:40:38,233
You know, in those days
you could have had
a wheelbarrow load of cocaine,
933
00:40:38,267 --> 00:40:39,900
rock-on, you were doing
really well.
934
00:40:39,933 --> 00:40:41,800
You had that much heroin,
935
00:40:41,833 --> 00:40:43,167
the stigma that that carried.
936
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:44,500
You know,
people were like, "Whoa."
937
00:40:44,533 --> 00:40:45,733
You know, didn't wanna know.
938
00:40:45,767 --> 00:40:47,467
[ROCK BAND PLAYING]
939
00:40:55,233 --> 00:40:57,867
It wasn't street,
it was pseudo-glamourous.
940
00:40:57,900 --> 00:41:01,400
New York infiltrated
the London punk scene
and brought
941
00:41:01,433 --> 00:41:03,800
one of the worst aspects
of New York with it.
942
00:41:10,267 --> 00:41:12,600
Why on earth, people think
943
00:41:13,567 --> 00:41:15,767
this band, The Heartbreakers,
944
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:17,567
Johnny Thunders
and Jerry Nolan,
945
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:19,567
who couldn't tie their shoes
in the morning,
946
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:22,633
could orchestrate the downfall
947
00:41:22,667 --> 00:41:25,400
of British youth
by importing heroin
948
00:41:25,433 --> 00:41:28,167
into the British isles
is beyond me.
949
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:31,467
And no one noticed Keith Moon
and Keith Richards,
950
00:41:31,500 --> 00:41:33,467
in and out of hospitals...
951
00:41:33,500 --> 00:41:36,200
They were English
and they were stoned junkies,
952
00:41:36,233 --> 00:41:37,833
real stoned junkies in England.
953
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:47,133
GLEN: You know,
to me The Heartbreakers
954
00:41:47,167 --> 00:41:48,900
would be regarded
the best punk band.
955
00:41:48,933 --> 00:41:50,500
There was something
about them
956
00:41:50,533 --> 00:41:53,667
like this cultural
kind of arrogance,
good song, look great.
957
00:41:53,700 --> 00:41:55,267
And we watched them,
totally gobsmacked.
958
00:41:55,300 --> 00:41:57,133
And then they came down
into the audience
959
00:41:57,167 --> 00:41:59,733
to say hello after
they'd done their 20-minutes.
960
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:02,800
And I said to Jerry Nolan,
961
00:42:02,833 --> 00:42:04,867
"I really like
that song Chinese Rock.
962
00:42:04,900 --> 00:42:06,567
"What's that all about then?"
963
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:08,267
He looks at me
like I was an idiot
964
00:42:08,300 --> 00:42:09,533
and he says, "Heroin, boy."
965
00:42:09,567 --> 00:42:11,267
Oh, right.
966
00:42:11,300 --> 00:42:16,567
Hadn't even come into anybody's
consciousness until then.
967
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:19,200
By the time The Heatbreakers
and Nancy arrived,
968
00:42:19,233 --> 00:42:22,367
it was the new thing, you know,
they almost made it cool.
969
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:23,600
STEVE: Johnny and Jerry needed
970
00:42:23,633 --> 00:42:25,233
to find someone
they could hang out with.
971
00:42:25,267 --> 00:42:27,300
It was an English kid,
the first English kid.
972
00:42:27,333 --> 00:42:28,633
This guy is cool.
973
00:42:28,667 --> 00:42:30,533
Now, it's in the nature,
974
00:42:30,567 --> 00:42:32,867
the unfortunate nature
of a junkie
975
00:42:32,900 --> 00:42:36,400
to not want to be
alone in their,
976
00:42:36,433 --> 00:42:37,767
uh, addiction.
977
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:39,700
I'm in their camp now.
I'm probably the first kid
978
00:42:39,733 --> 00:42:41,467
who did smack with these guys
from New York.
979
00:42:41,500 --> 00:42:43,167
'Cause they don't speed.
980
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:46,467
There's no doubt,
that they turned
a lot of people onto heroin.
981
00:42:46,500 --> 00:42:49,633
And that really did have a major
impact on the Punk rock scene
982
00:42:49,667 --> 00:42:53,167
and almost wiped out
the first chapter of it.
983
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:55,567
And he was like rolling up
his leg every now and again
984
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:58,200
and he was showing everybody
all his needle marks.
985
00:42:58,233 --> 00:42:59,833
He says, "Oh, God.
986
00:42:59,867 --> 00:43:03,267
"This foot has gone numb now,
I can't use this foot anymore."
987
00:43:06,267 --> 00:43:11,567
And his whole body was
absolutely covered with marks.
988
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:15,233
KRIS: Sid developed his persona
when he became a Pistol.
989
00:43:15,267 --> 00:43:16,900
I know the image
990
00:43:16,933 --> 00:43:19,667
and the requirements
of living up to it.
991
00:43:19,700 --> 00:43:21,333
Did go to his head sometimes.
992
00:43:21,367 --> 00:43:24,133
LEEE: The name Sid Vicious
was the most amazing
993
00:43:24,167 --> 00:43:25,300
creation in the world.
994
00:43:25,333 --> 00:43:27,167
It's like Hollywood stars,
995
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:28,667
you know, Marilyn Monroe,
Betty Grable,
996
00:43:28,700 --> 00:43:30,500
those people didn't know
how to deal with
997
00:43:30,533 --> 00:43:33,400
who they suddenly had to be.
998
00:43:33,433 --> 00:43:34,833
And had to be all the time.
999
00:43:34,867 --> 00:43:37,367
They didn't get to
1000
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:39,633
only be it
when the cameras were on
1001
00:43:39,667 --> 00:43:43,833
or only till someone said,
"Now you can go home now,
1002
00:43:43,867 --> 00:43:45,167
"and just be yourself."
1003
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:47,367
KRIS: But this was
exacerbated by drugs,
1004
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:51,533
which stoked, you know,
his reasoning, innocence,
1005
00:43:51,567 --> 00:43:54,300
all went out the window
and he became Sid Vicious.
1006
00:43:54,333 --> 00:43:55,700
[ PRETTY DOPE FIEND PLAYING]
1007
00:43:55,733 --> 00:43:57,800
* Lookin' for
A pretty dope fiend *
1008
00:43:58,967 --> 00:44:00,700
And I remember one day,
1009
00:44:00,733 --> 00:44:02,767
she was with me
at Honi O'Rourke's
placed at the Chelsea Hotel.
1010
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,667
And she says,
"Wow, guys, you know,
1011
00:44:05,700 --> 00:44:07,500
"I'm going to London, man.
1012
00:44:07,533 --> 00:44:10,200
"'Cause The Heartbreakers
are gonna be playing there."
1013
00:44:13,267 --> 00:44:16,767
Nancy turned up in London
1014
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:20,400
when she did, because she had
a thing for Jerry Nolan.
1015
00:44:20,433 --> 00:44:21,867
KRIS: The story
is with a guitar,
1016
00:44:21,900 --> 00:44:24,167
but I don't know why
she'd be giving Jerry a guitar
1017
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:25,667
because he was a drummer.
1018
00:44:25,700 --> 00:44:26,733
Nolan was a drummer.
1019
00:44:26,767 --> 00:44:29,300
This really beautiful pink,
left-handed
1020
00:44:29,333 --> 00:44:32,733
Fender Esquire with
all the knobs on it
were offset dice.
1021
00:44:32,767 --> 00:44:35,833
Really flash kind of...
Not very punk, but...
1022
00:44:35,867 --> 00:44:37,933
He couldn't play it,
but, um...
1023
00:44:37,967 --> 00:44:39,567
She brought it over
for him. "Hey..."
1024
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:42,733
But he knew she was bad news,
just gave her the bum's rush.
1025
00:44:42,767 --> 00:44:45,500
I used to go back to
The Heartbreakers' flat
quite a lot.
1026
00:44:45,533 --> 00:44:46,800
Anyway, we walked in,
1027
00:44:46,833 --> 00:44:49,933
and there was just this
incredibly loud woman there.
1028
00:44:49,967 --> 00:44:52,267
Neil said it was my birthday
1029
00:44:52,300 --> 00:44:54,667
and she just started
going about her birthday.
1030
00:44:54,700 --> 00:44:57,267
Everyone was just zonked out
on smack.
1031
00:44:57,300 --> 00:45:00,667
And we'd sort of
turn the lights out
and sort of sitting down.
1032
00:45:00,700 --> 00:45:03,467
And suddenly there's this
presence in the room.
1033
00:45:03,500 --> 00:45:05,333
Here's Jerry Nolan.
1034
00:45:05,367 --> 00:45:08,200
And fully-clothed,
mohair jumper, the whole lot.
1035
00:45:08,233 --> 00:45:09,567
And he got into bed beside me.
1036
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:11,933
So, I was stuck in the middle
of Neil and Jerry.
1037
00:45:11,967 --> 00:45:14,933
And he just said that he wasn't
being weird or anything,
1038
00:45:14,967 --> 00:45:16,367
but, you know, he was really...
1039
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:18,767
There was no way he
was gonna be on his own,
1040
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:20,400
with Nancy on the loose.
1041
00:45:20,433 --> 00:45:22,467
She came up to me, Nancy,
1042
00:45:22,500 --> 00:45:25,433
came up, from behind,
put her hand on my shoulder,
1043
00:45:25,467 --> 00:45:27,133
and said, "Hi, where's Jerry?"
1044
00:45:27,167 --> 00:45:28,867
First words out of her mouth.
1045
00:45:28,900 --> 00:45:30,500
And I said,
"You will not see Jerry,
1046
00:45:30,533 --> 00:45:31,867
"I won't let you near Jerry.
1047
00:45:31,900 --> 00:45:34,233
"If I have to lock
Jerry up in a room
1048
00:45:34,267 --> 00:45:36,700
"and not let him out of it,
I won't let you near Jerry.
1049
00:45:36,733 --> 00:45:38,233
"Do you understand?"
1050
00:45:38,267 --> 00:45:40,267
And she just said, "Oh, okay,"
and wandered away.
1051
00:45:40,300 --> 00:45:41,733
That was it.
1052
00:45:41,767 --> 00:45:43,233
I think my first introduction
1053
00:45:43,267 --> 00:45:46,867
to Nancy was hearing
this neighing,
whining sound
1054
00:45:46,900 --> 00:45:49,467
from the background,
over my dub records
I was playing.
1055
00:45:49,500 --> 00:45:50,633
'Cause she was loud.
1056
00:45:50,667 --> 00:45:52,733
See, Jerry very much used her.
1057
00:45:52,767 --> 00:45:53,767
Jerry...
1058
00:45:55,300 --> 00:45:59,233
Jerry... If someone could
supply Jerry with drugs,
1059
00:45:59,267 --> 00:46:01,567
or with money
or with a place to stay,
1060
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:05,400
or a ride to the bar,
1061
00:46:05,433 --> 00:46:07,233
they were his girlfriend.
1062
00:46:07,267 --> 00:46:08,833
And because obviously
no one knew her,
1063
00:46:08,867 --> 00:46:11,567
no one knew this story
was a whole heap of lies.
1064
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:13,700
What it did is it opened
a lot of doors for her,
1065
00:46:13,733 --> 00:46:16,200
got her into
McLaren Westwood empire.
1066
00:46:16,233 --> 00:46:18,500
He got her
into the Speakeasy.
1067
00:46:18,533 --> 00:46:20,500
We'd go to the Roxy
as a kind of,
1068
00:46:21,500 --> 00:46:23,533
um, watering hole.
1069
00:46:23,567 --> 00:46:26,567
And there's this girl
staggering about
with a very high voice.
1070
00:46:27,467 --> 00:46:28,300
Um...
1071
00:46:29,567 --> 00:46:31,200
There were a couple
of Heartbreakers there
1072
00:46:31,233 --> 00:46:32,833
and they were avoiding her
like the plague.
1073
00:46:32,867 --> 00:46:35,133
She was going around
asking everyone
for a cigarette.
1074
00:46:35,167 --> 00:46:36,633
And she spotted Sid.
1075
00:46:36,667 --> 00:46:39,933
And made a beeline.
And that was it.
1076
00:46:39,967 --> 00:46:42,400
He started talking to her.
She was all over him.
1077
00:46:53,367 --> 00:46:55,900
We'd never met
American women before.
1078
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:01,667
And so, initially,
it was quite a giggle.
1079
00:47:01,700 --> 00:47:04,200
Saw her on the arm of Sid
1080
00:47:04,233 --> 00:47:05,467
and I thought,
1081
00:47:05,500 --> 00:47:09,467
"Oh, my God, if there
were ever a perfect target
1082
00:47:09,500 --> 00:47:11,500
for Nancy Spungen."
1083
00:47:11,533 --> 00:47:15,167
Sid was very innocent,
gullible, whatever you
wanna call it, naive.
1084
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:16,633
She probably
blew him off his feet.
1085
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:25,500
What amazes me,
is that how over the years,
1086
00:47:25,533 --> 00:47:28,333
it's become
a Romeo and Juliet story.
1087
00:47:28,367 --> 00:47:30,833
And it's been
kinda romanticized.
1088
00:47:30,867 --> 00:47:33,233
But he really loved this person.
1089
00:47:33,267 --> 00:47:34,933
He loved her more
than he loved his music.
1090
00:47:34,967 --> 00:47:36,733
VIVIANE: Bit by bit,
as he got
together with Nancy,
1091
00:47:36,767 --> 00:47:39,300
and then he became,
you know, very caring
1092
00:47:39,333 --> 00:47:42,133
and caught up in her world
and trying to make her happy.
1093
00:47:42,167 --> 00:47:43,567
ALAN: Whispering in his ear,
1094
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:45,467
she taught him things
no one had ever taught him
1095
00:47:45,500 --> 00:47:46,600
and she showed him
a bit of love.
1096
00:47:46,633 --> 00:47:47,833
They were sensitive people
1097
00:47:47,867 --> 00:47:49,933
and they seemed
to get along very well.
1098
00:47:49,967 --> 00:47:52,667
In fact, they were always
holding one another
in my office.
1099
00:47:52,700 --> 00:47:53,933
You sort of sense
1100
00:47:53,967 --> 00:47:56,267
that there was a great
affection between them.
1101
00:47:56,300 --> 00:47:58,400
Maybe they were
right for each other.
1102
00:47:58,433 --> 00:48:00,267
Maybe, whatever it is
1103
00:48:00,300 --> 00:48:01,867
she brought to the table,
he needed.
1104
00:48:01,900 --> 00:48:03,433
Sid was really shy.
1105
00:48:03,467 --> 00:48:04,933
He was really shy with girls.
1106
00:48:04,967 --> 00:48:07,467
I never ever saw him
chat up a girl.
1107
00:48:07,500 --> 00:48:09,167
I mean, a girl would
have to come to Sid.
1108
00:48:09,200 --> 00:48:10,467
He wasn't interested in sex.
1109
00:48:10,500 --> 00:48:12,267
So if girls,
they would throw
themselves at him,
1110
00:48:12,300 --> 00:48:14,300
and he wasn't interested.
1111
00:48:14,333 --> 00:48:18,367
He was quite possibly a virgin
before he met Nancy.
1112
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:21,467
He needed a strong,
forward woman
1113
00:48:21,500 --> 00:48:23,467
to, you know,
to go to bed with him.
1114
00:48:23,500 --> 00:48:25,133
Otherwise, he would never
make the move.
1115
00:48:25,167 --> 00:48:26,367
And she made the move.
1116
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:28,633
She would really,
sort of like,
bolster his ego.
1117
00:48:28,667 --> 00:48:30,833
In a way
that I thought was really
1118
00:48:30,867 --> 00:48:32,933
what you're supposed to do
if you're boy and girlfriend.
1119
00:48:32,967 --> 00:48:34,867
I don't know
if you saw any of the gigs,
1120
00:48:34,900 --> 00:48:37,467
but Sid
was really shining out.
1121
00:48:37,500 --> 00:48:40,167
JONES: And I think, if you had
that in the background,
1122
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:42,333
then I don't think
it was quite as tragic,
1123
00:48:42,367 --> 00:48:44,467
as we're all sort of
being led to believe.
1124
00:48:44,500 --> 00:48:46,433
How many people loved
The Beatles and hated Yoko?
1125
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:48,167
Automatically.
1126
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:50,867
It's like Yoko
all of a sudden had power.
1127
00:48:50,900 --> 00:48:54,733
And The Beatles, and John
and she was controlling John.
1128
00:48:54,767 --> 00:48:57,200
Well, maybe John
wanted to be controlled.
1129
00:48:57,233 --> 00:48:58,533
Maybe John needed her.
1130
00:48:58,567 --> 00:49:01,267
When someone's in love,
what can you do, you know.
1131
00:49:01,300 --> 00:49:02,667
If it's the bird or the band,
1132
00:49:02,700 --> 00:49:04,300
usually the bird wins.
1133
00:49:09,467 --> 00:49:11,233
The Pistols came to America.
1134
00:49:11,267 --> 00:49:13,700
They came to America,
they came to tour.
1135
00:49:13,733 --> 00:49:15,867
By the time
they announced their tour,
1136
00:49:15,900 --> 00:49:18,233
I knew I had to find a way
to get on that tour.
1137
00:49:18,267 --> 00:49:20,333
STEVE: Been a long time,
Sid, when he went to America
1138
00:49:20,367 --> 00:49:22,267
on the tour with the Pistols,
1139
00:49:22,300 --> 00:49:25,733
you know, he asked me
and Barry to look after Nancy.
1140
00:49:25,767 --> 00:49:28,167
So we had the job
of making sure
she was all right.
1141
00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:29,867
He was away with The Pistols
in America.
1142
00:49:29,900 --> 00:49:31,900
He'd be ringing back, "Viv,
can you make sure
you've seen Nancy.
1143
00:49:31,933 --> 00:49:33,433
"She says no one
wants to talk to her.
1144
00:49:33,467 --> 00:49:34,633
"No one wants to speak to her.
1145
00:49:34,667 --> 00:49:36,367
"Everyone hates her.
It's breaking my heart."
1146
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:38,233
You know, he was still
worried in the States,
1147
00:49:38,267 --> 00:49:40,433
because she'd be ringing
him up, giving him an earful
all the time.
1148
00:49:40,467 --> 00:49:43,800
No one really wanted
Nancy around.
1149
00:49:43,833 --> 00:49:45,567
They told her, "Nance,
it's because of Sid."
1150
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:47,267
And she did get
to that the point,
1151
00:49:47,300 --> 00:49:50,233
where she was
persona non grata
around most people's places.
1152
00:49:50,267 --> 00:49:53,533
We ended up setting up
a party in Bob Gruen's room.
1153
00:49:53,567 --> 00:49:56,400
And, sure enough,
everybody except for Johnny
1154
00:49:56,433 --> 00:49:57,833
from The Pistols showed up.
1155
00:49:58,967 --> 00:50:01,733
And Sid walked in,
1156
00:50:01,767 --> 00:50:03,733
kinda in the middle
of the party,
1157
00:50:03,767 --> 00:50:06,133
with this tall blond woman.
1158
00:50:06,167 --> 00:50:08,667
We're all kinda like,
"Oh, that's good for Sid.
1159
00:50:08,700 --> 00:50:11,233
"He picked up the best-looking
girl from the gig."
1160
00:50:11,267 --> 00:50:12,667
One time he called up,
1161
00:50:12,700 --> 00:50:15,567
and was her telling how he'd
been with a transvestite.
1162
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:17,267
She had a very deep voice.
1163
00:50:17,300 --> 00:50:19,633
And Sid was pretty upfront.
1164
00:50:19,667 --> 00:50:21,567
He's like, "Well, here now.
1165
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:25,167
"Am I gonna suck your cock
or your cunt?"
1166
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:27,933
And she said, "Cunt."[HOARSELY]
1167
00:50:27,967 --> 00:50:30,167
And everybody's like...
[MIMICKING VIBRATING]
1168
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:32,133
You know, "What the..."
1169
00:50:32,167 --> 00:50:34,867
It, you know...
That's a man's voice.
1170
00:50:34,900 --> 00:50:36,567
"Sid, what are you doing
over there, you know,
1171
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:38,467
"on the road in America
for the first time.
1172
00:50:38,500 --> 00:50:39,733
"We can only imagine."
1173
00:50:39,767 --> 00:50:41,233
He was telling her about
1174
00:50:41,967 --> 00:50:43,700
this transvestite
1175
00:50:43,733 --> 00:50:46,333
he'd ended up with and...
1176
00:50:46,367 --> 00:50:47,933
Her reaction was,
"Well, all right, Sid,
1177
00:50:47,967 --> 00:50:50,867
as long as you're not fucking
any girls, you know."
1178
00:50:50,900 --> 00:50:53,533
[LAUGHING]
Which I thought was funny.
1179
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:03,433
There were three or four real
hardcore Pistols fans from LA.
1180
00:51:03,467 --> 00:51:06,167
Um, of which one
is the famous Hellin Killer.
1181
00:51:06,200 --> 00:51:08,167
HELLIN: When Sid came out,
1182
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:10,167
and he came right up to us.
1183
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:12,767
It's like,"Look,
people that I can talk to."
1184
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:19,333
He was just like any kid
like anywhere
that we would run into.
1185
00:51:19,367 --> 00:51:21,200
And he came running up,
and he was like,
1186
00:51:21,233 --> 00:51:23,400
"Hey,"
and he starts talking to us.
1187
00:51:23,433 --> 00:51:24,900
He's like, "Are you coming
to the show?"
1188
00:51:24,933 --> 00:51:26,733
And I'm like,
"We've got tickets."
1189
00:51:26,767 --> 00:51:28,900
And he grabbed the tickets
out of my hand,
1190
00:51:28,933 --> 00:51:31,167
and he grabbed us
and we went back in.
1191
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:32,867
And he goes,
"Give them their money back.
1192
00:51:32,900 --> 00:51:35,200
"They're on my guest list."
1193
00:51:35,233 --> 00:51:38,700
And that was my initial
meeting of Sid.
1194
00:51:38,733 --> 00:51:41,567
So she kinda became
Sid's companion
1195
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:44,233
on tour for that last US tour.
1196
00:51:44,267 --> 00:51:48,567
I remember in Dallas,
he called her
1197
00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:49,900
and he was on the phone
with her.
1198
00:51:49,933 --> 00:51:53,167
He's like, "I met this girl
and it's really great."
1199
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:55,467
And I was like really terrified
1200
00:51:55,500 --> 00:51:58,500
because what I heard of Nancy
and what I thought of Nancy.
1201
00:51:58,533 --> 00:52:04,233
What everyone said was
just what an incredible
nightmare she was.
1202
00:52:04,267 --> 00:52:08,433
"Oh, she's gonna kill you
if she ever finds out
about you."
1203
00:52:08,467 --> 00:52:13,367
I was just like, "Why are you
even mentioning
that I exist to her?"
1204
00:52:14,367 --> 00:52:16,600
It was kind of
frightening to me.
1205
00:52:18,467 --> 00:52:21,333
But he was like
in love with her.
1206
00:52:21,367 --> 00:52:23,467
[ UP FOR THE CRACK PLAYING]
1207
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:28,667
* So many times I've waited
1208
00:52:29,900 --> 00:52:31,767
* Too many times sedated
1209
00:52:32,833 --> 00:52:35,833
* So many times elated
1210
00:52:35,867 --> 00:52:38,367
JOHN: The Sex Pistols
were fighting with each other.
1211
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:40,133
Malcolm was not speaking
with Johnny.
1212
00:52:40,167 --> 00:52:42,700
Johnny was not speaking
to Malcolm.
1213
00:52:42,733 --> 00:52:44,633
Um, nobody could find Sid.
1214
00:52:44,667 --> 00:52:47,333
He was hanging out with some
groupies, taking drugs.
1215
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:50,133
We were in the bathroom.
1216
00:52:50,167 --> 00:52:52,133
He's like, "I'm gonna do this."
I'm like, "No, don't do it."
1217
00:52:52,167 --> 00:52:53,400
He's like, "I'm gonna do it."
1218
00:52:53,433 --> 00:52:55,933
And I'm like, "Okay,
there's nothing I can do."
1219
00:52:55,967 --> 00:52:59,567
And sitting on the edge
of the bathtub,
1220
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:02,833
Sid shot his steroids.
1221
00:53:02,867 --> 00:53:05,833
And fell directly back
into the bathtub.
1222
00:53:15,300 --> 00:53:21,167
I've got Sid in the worst
situation I've ever seen.
1223
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:22,633
And these kids are
just kinda looking at him.
1224
00:53:22,667 --> 00:53:25,833
Almost dead, turning blue.
I got him on his feet,
1225
00:53:25,867 --> 00:53:27,433
walked him around.
1226
00:53:27,467 --> 00:53:29,400
Stuff I've never had to do
with anybody ever.
1227
00:53:29,433 --> 00:53:30,567
He was responding.
1228
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:34,500
He was groaning,
but he was in a semi-coma.
1229
00:53:34,533 --> 00:53:36,667
But his circulation returned.
1230
00:53:36,700 --> 00:53:38,133
It was working, you know.
1231
00:53:38,167 --> 00:53:40,667
I was really fearing it won't.
1232
00:53:40,700 --> 00:53:43,200
And here's the beauty of Sid.
1233
00:53:43,233 --> 00:53:46,533
The doctor shows up,
gives him the Narcan,
1234
00:53:46,567 --> 00:53:49,767
whatever is they give you
when you OD on heroin.
1235
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:51,100
Sid sits up,
1236
00:53:51,833 --> 00:53:54,767
fixes his hair, stands up,
1237
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:57,600
and looks around
and goes, "What?"
1238
00:53:57,633 --> 00:54:00,100
And that was it.
That was like nothing happened.
1239
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:05,633
SID: The Sex Pistols
are finished.
1240
00:54:05,667 --> 00:54:09,300
There could never be
a replacement for John Rotten.
1241
00:54:09,333 --> 00:54:12,867
Sometimes it upsets me
so much that I cry about it.
1242
00:54:12,900 --> 00:54:16,567
Because that band stood
for so, so much.
1243
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:20,400
It stood for so much,
like freedom of youth
and speech
1244
00:54:20,433 --> 00:54:23,900
and it was very revolutionary.
1245
00:54:23,933 --> 00:54:27,600
I guess a junkie only needs
a rap to justify his life,
1246
00:54:27,633 --> 00:54:29,233
and a means to get that rap.
1247
00:54:29,267 --> 00:54:31,400
Once he was kicked out
of the Pistols,
1248
00:54:31,433 --> 00:54:32,600
he was kind of lost
1249
00:54:32,633 --> 00:54:36,167
and up for absolutely anything.
1250
00:54:46,633 --> 00:54:48,867
Porno, playing with anybody.
1251
00:54:48,900 --> 00:54:52,200
I mean, they were just like
desperate junkies.
1252
00:54:52,233 --> 00:54:53,933
Really sad, it has to be said.
1253
00:54:53,967 --> 00:54:56,600
Hey, do you wanna make
a pornographic movie?
1254
00:54:56,633 --> 00:54:59,500
Give us a hundred pounds.
1255
00:54:59,533 --> 00:55:02,900
I remember she came up to me
and said, "Hi, Steve.
1256
00:55:02,933 --> 00:55:06,133
"Would you like to watch me
and Sid have sex for 20 pounds?"
1257
00:55:06,167 --> 00:55:08,267
I went, "You'd have to pay me
a lot more than that, Nancy.
1258
00:55:08,300 --> 00:55:10,800
"I tell you, honestly,
I couldn't think
of nothing worse
1259
00:55:10,833 --> 00:55:12,567
"than watching you
and him having sex?"
1260
00:55:12,600 --> 00:55:13,933
She even hit on me one time.
1261
00:55:13,967 --> 00:55:16,533
I had to get her a spliff
to get her off my back.
1262
00:55:16,567 --> 00:55:17,733
Not literally, folks.
1263
00:55:17,767 --> 00:55:21,200
There was also a rumor
that Sid did as well.
1264
00:55:21,233 --> 00:55:23,867
You know, that he
gave himself
to make money.
1265
00:55:23,900 --> 00:55:27,167
Do you want me to
make you a cup of coffee?
1266
00:55:29,533 --> 00:55:30,700
Yeah, could you?
1267
00:55:30,733 --> 00:55:32,833
Yes, I'll make you
a cup of coffee.
1268
00:55:32,867 --> 00:55:35,600
I just took a suitcase,
got on a plane
and went to London.
1269
00:55:35,633 --> 00:55:37,433
And I was on King's Road,
1270
00:55:37,467 --> 00:55:39,500
and some kids came out
and they're like,
1271
00:55:39,533 --> 00:55:41,600
"So, Sid's in the store
right there.
1272
00:55:41,633 --> 00:55:44,233
"Boy, why don't you go
and say hi."
1273
00:55:44,267 --> 00:55:46,800
And I'm like, "Okay."
1274
00:55:46,833 --> 00:55:49,700
And I walked in
and he turned around
1275
00:55:49,733 --> 00:55:54,800
and it was like we had
just seen each other
five minutes ago.
1276
00:55:54,833 --> 00:56:00,400
And at that point, he's like,
"You have to come over
and meet Nancy."
1277
00:56:00,433 --> 00:56:04,400
To be really honest,
Nancy was so nice
1278
00:56:04,433 --> 00:56:06,800
and wonderful to me,
when I met her.
1279
00:56:06,833 --> 00:56:10,167
And, then she goes, "You need
to stay here with us,
1280
00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:11,867
"if you're not really
staying anywhere."
1281
00:56:11,900 --> 00:56:15,433
They actually spent a lot
of time in bed in their room,
1282
00:56:15,467 --> 00:56:19,400
in front of the TV,
in their underwear,
high on fucking heroin.
1283
00:56:19,433 --> 00:56:22,467
We would go to the chip shop,
come back,
1284
00:56:22,500 --> 00:56:26,600
watch TV, do our hair,
you know.
1285
00:56:26,633 --> 00:56:27,867
They stayed home a lot.
1286
00:56:27,900 --> 00:56:30,133
You know, there wasn't
a lot of fighting.
1287
00:56:30,167 --> 00:56:32,133
There wasn't a lot of arguing.
1288
00:56:32,167 --> 00:56:33,600
I think the whole time
I was there,
1289
00:56:33,633 --> 00:56:35,900
there was like one
argument fight.
1290
00:56:35,933 --> 00:56:39,533
There was kind of a lot
of whining on Nancy's part,
1291
00:56:39,567 --> 00:56:41,300
but I think she
was just very whiny.
1292
00:56:41,333 --> 00:56:43,167
Girlfriend at the time
used to make clothes
1293
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:47,200
and she used to kinda
hang out there.
1294
00:56:47,233 --> 00:56:50,267
And say that she was always
trying to let her jeans out
a bit more.
1295
00:56:50,300 --> 00:56:52,333
'Cause she was
putting on weight
1296
00:56:52,367 --> 00:56:54,233
and putting on weight
and putting on weight.
1297
00:56:54,267 --> 00:56:58,367
Those jeans had these, sort of,
different shade of blue
V's in the back.
1298
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:01,800
There was apparently animosity
between Nancy and Sid's mom.
1299
00:57:02,933 --> 00:57:05,367
And while I was living there,
1300
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:07,233
like, a couple of times
they went out,
1301
00:57:07,267 --> 00:57:09,733
and they were like,
"If she comes by..."
1302
00:57:09,767 --> 00:57:12,767
Nancy, "If she comes by,
don't let her in the house."
1303
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:14,633
And one night she did come by.
1304
00:57:14,667 --> 00:57:17,533
She was, "I just wanted to drop
some things off for Sid."
1305
00:57:17,567 --> 00:57:20,833
And she gave me
a big bag of jujubes
1306
00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:24,800
and a big bag of syringes.
1307
00:57:24,833 --> 00:57:28,133
This was mom's present
or whatever,
1308
00:57:28,167 --> 00:57:30,367
care package for Sid.
1309
00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:33,333
And I was just like, "Wow."
1310
00:57:33,367 --> 00:57:39,333
Malcolm, um, held
the purse strings
as regards money.
1311
00:57:39,367 --> 00:57:42,167
So, Sid needed money
because he had a drug habit.
1312
00:57:42,200 --> 00:57:44,867
So he was always
dependent upon that.
1313
00:57:44,900 --> 00:57:48,167
And Malcolm was never
forthcoming with any
great amounts of money.
1314
00:57:51,167 --> 00:57:52,733
SID: It's here to signify,
1315
00:57:52,767 --> 00:57:55,367
the flow of air
around the chair, you know.
1316
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:57,500
Trying to be all artistic
and impress us
1317
00:57:57,533 --> 00:57:58,900
and we were laughing
our heads off.
1318
00:57:58,933 --> 00:58:00,433
"You are an idiot."
1319
00:58:00,933 --> 00:58:02,400
I hate Malcolm.
1320
00:58:02,433 --> 00:58:05,400
Obviously, Malcolm was really
concentrating on Sid.
1321
00:58:05,433 --> 00:58:09,200
And Nancy was really getting
in the way of Maclcolm's plans.
1322
00:58:09,233 --> 00:58:10,700
What Nancy was doing
was deciding
1323
00:58:10,733 --> 00:58:12,133
that she was going to be
Sid's manager.
1324
00:58:12,167 --> 00:58:14,667
So, Malcolm did his
word of mouth thing,
1325
00:58:14,700 --> 00:58:16,300
which I thought was hilarious.
1326
00:58:16,333 --> 00:58:18,733
SID: My girlfriend manages me.
1327
00:58:18,767 --> 00:58:22,800
I just wanna get another
band together and tour.
1328
00:58:22,833 --> 00:58:27,533
The reality was,
on paper and on contract
with the lawyers,
1329
00:58:27,567 --> 00:58:30,533
Malcolm McLaren
was still Sid's manager.
1330
00:58:30,567 --> 00:58:33,333
In retrospect, maybe,
there was a lot more humor
to the whole thing,
1331
00:58:33,367 --> 00:58:36,133
than I was able to really
enjoy at the time.
1332
00:58:36,167 --> 00:58:38,500
SID: I don't know whether
so many songs sung...
1333
00:58:38,533 --> 00:58:40,600
I don't know whether
he'll have enough faith in it.
1334
00:58:40,633 --> 00:58:42,400
But she's damn smart.
1335
00:58:42,433 --> 00:58:46,600
Damn smart. She's been a lot
around the music business
1336
00:58:46,633 --> 00:58:49,733
since she was 13
and she knows a lot of guys
1337
00:58:49,767 --> 00:58:51,567
and she can pull
a lot of weight.
1338
00:58:53,433 --> 00:58:55,533
I was really surprised
that Glen and him
1339
00:58:55,567 --> 00:58:56,767
were really good friends.
1340
00:58:56,800 --> 00:59:00,567
When Glen first came over,
I was like, "Go figure."
1341
00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:04,600
The one guy, that, you know,
he replaced in the band,
1342
00:59:04,633 --> 00:59:07,167
is the one guy
who's there for him.
1343
00:59:07,200 --> 00:59:08,767
When I was sitting there
in the pub next to him,
1344
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:11,233
and he said, " What's all
this about we don't get on?"
1345
00:59:11,267 --> 00:59:13,333
I said "I don't know.
We're sitting here in a pub,
aren't we?"
1346
00:59:13,367 --> 00:59:14,200
And he said, "Yeah."
1347
00:59:15,467 --> 00:59:17,700
And he said,
"How can we prove to people?"
1348
00:59:17,733 --> 00:59:19,900
I said, "I don't know.
I don't know if I'm bothered
about proving to people."
1349
00:59:19,933 --> 00:59:22,333
He said, "No, no, we should."
1350
00:59:22,367 --> 00:59:24,933
I said, "How about doing
a gig then?"
1351
00:59:24,967 --> 00:59:26,700
He went, "That's a good idea.
Who can we get?"
1352
00:59:26,733 --> 00:59:28,133
We went through
who we could get
1353
00:59:28,167 --> 00:59:30,300
and we got Steve New
of the Rich Kids
1354
00:59:30,333 --> 00:59:34,267
and Rat Scabies, just old mates.
1355
00:59:34,300 --> 00:59:36,900
And put a band together.
And we called it
the Vicious White Kids.
1356
00:59:36,933 --> 00:59:39,400
Sid Vicious,
I was still just about
1357
00:59:39,433 --> 00:59:41,300
in the Rich Kids
and Steve was in...
1358
00:59:41,333 --> 00:59:43,633
Rat Scabies was actually not
in the band at that stage.
1359
00:59:43,667 --> 00:59:45,433
He had a band
called The White Cats.
1360
00:59:45,467 --> 00:59:47,333
It was kind of funny though
1361
00:59:47,367 --> 00:59:50,567
'cause, I don't know,
I just found Sid
a little bit slow, really.
1362
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:53,667
He said, "We've got
Steve on guitar,
1363
00:59:53,700 --> 00:59:55,233
"and Rat on drums.
1364
00:59:56,500 --> 00:59:58,367
"Who's gonna play bass?"
1365
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:00,233
He said, "You're a bass player
and I'm a bass player.
1366
01:00:00,267 --> 01:00:01,467
"Who's gonna play bass?"
1367
01:00:01,500 --> 01:00:02,733
I said,
"I'll put it this way, Sid,
1368
01:00:02,767 --> 01:00:03,933
"I'm certainly
not gonna sing."
1369
01:00:03,967 --> 01:00:06,567
He went, "Oh.
Who's gonna sing then?"
1370
01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:07,833
I said, "You can sing."
1371
01:00:07,867 --> 01:00:09,367
"Who's gonna play bass?"
1372
01:00:10,933 --> 01:00:12,900
That was the greatest show.
1373
01:00:12,933 --> 01:00:14,667
Everyone was there.
1374
01:00:14,700 --> 01:00:16,433
[ TIME OF YOUR LIFE PLAYING]
1375
01:00:19,700 --> 01:00:24,533
* Time, time, time...
1376
01:00:24,567 --> 01:00:27,767
I think Debbie Harry was there,
everyone was there.
1377
01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:29,500
That was an amazing show.
1378
01:00:29,533 --> 01:00:32,667
And had he been able
to continue to pull that off
1379
01:00:32,700 --> 01:00:33,900
when he got to New York,
1380
01:00:35,233 --> 01:00:37,900
who knows
what would have happened.
1381
01:00:37,933 --> 01:00:40,200
There you go,
then we started rehearsing.
1382
01:00:40,233 --> 01:00:41,933
We did our one number,
1383
01:00:41,967 --> 01:00:43,333
and Sid comes up
to me afterwards.
1384
01:00:43,367 --> 01:00:45,200
And he says, "Well, it's like
you can play bass
1385
01:00:45,233 --> 01:00:47,100
"all the way for a song
without stopping."
1386
01:00:48,433 --> 01:00:50,533
At that time it did enable
a lot kids
1387
01:00:50,567 --> 01:00:53,367
who hadn't seen
Sid Vicious on stage
1388
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:54,867
to actually go.
1389
01:00:54,900 --> 01:00:57,167
Since the rehearsal...
We went for our
first rehearsal,
1390
01:00:57,200 --> 01:00:59,667
everything had been cleared out
by the band who had it before.
1391
01:00:59,700 --> 01:01:03,133
Apart from this
Fender Mustang bass guitar,
it was just sitting there.
1392
01:01:03,167 --> 01:01:04,333
His eyes lit up.
1393
01:01:04,367 --> 01:01:05,700
He went,
"I'm having that for my honey."
1394
01:01:05,733 --> 01:01:07,767
You know, um, Nancy.
1395
01:01:07,800 --> 01:01:10,533
We rehearsed and we drove home.
1396
01:01:10,567 --> 01:01:12,500
Next day we got up
to our rehearsal.
1397
01:01:12,533 --> 01:01:14,933
And they say, "Okay,
have a good gig.
Take the equipment.
1398
01:01:14,967 --> 01:01:16,233
"But you can't take
the equipment
1399
01:01:16,267 --> 01:01:17,533
"until you give us
the bass back."
1400
01:01:17,567 --> 01:01:18,867
"What bass?"
1401
01:01:18,900 --> 01:01:21,700
"The bass that Sid
walked out with last night."
1402
01:01:21,733 --> 01:01:22,800
"No, we didn't have a bass."
1403
01:01:22,833 --> 01:01:25,200
"Everybody seen you, Sid."
1404
01:01:25,233 --> 01:01:27,167
We put a phone call
in to Nancy, you know.
1405
01:01:27,200 --> 01:01:30,233
We arranged that,
"Well, the bass was coming."
1406
01:01:30,267 --> 01:01:31,533
You know,
we could be loading up.
1407
01:01:31,567 --> 01:01:34,200
But we had to sit there
waiting for it to turn up.
1408
01:01:34,233 --> 01:01:36,267
Of course, in the meantime,
Nancy's painted it
1409
01:01:36,300 --> 01:01:38,133
with black emulsion.
1410
01:01:38,167 --> 01:01:40,167
Hadn't even taken the strings
off or anything like that.
1411
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:43,300
And arrives in a cab
in a black dripping bag.
1412
01:01:43,333 --> 01:01:45,233
So we gave it to the guy,
but it's still dripping wet.
1413
01:01:45,267 --> 01:01:46,867
You know, but we just went.
1414
01:01:46,900 --> 01:01:50,267
But the whole idea of it
was obviously
to raise enough funds
1415
01:01:50,300 --> 01:01:53,133
to send Sid over to New York
and, you know...
1416
01:01:53,167 --> 01:01:54,300
It could have been
a lot of things.
1417
01:01:54,333 --> 01:01:55,667
It could be to get away
from Malcolm.
1418
01:01:55,700 --> 01:01:58,600
Maybe to get some control
over his career himself,
1419
01:01:58,633 --> 01:02:00,133
if he knew what he was doing.
1420
01:02:00,167 --> 01:02:03,800
But, um, I think there was
also some legal problems,
1421
01:02:03,833 --> 01:02:06,500
they had over here
at the time too.
1422
01:02:06,533 --> 01:02:09,333
There was a young,
fairly up-and-coming
1423
01:02:09,367 --> 01:02:12,133
and promising record producer
called John Shepcock.
1424
01:02:12,167 --> 01:02:14,333
He was in his early 20s.
1425
01:02:14,367 --> 01:02:17,467
Um, and he was
a heroin addict too.
1426
01:02:17,500 --> 01:02:19,767
And he went down
to Pindock Mews one night.
1427
01:02:19,800 --> 01:02:21,800
And himself, Sid and Nancy
1428
01:02:21,833 --> 01:02:24,433
had this kind of
nod out on heroin.
1429
01:02:24,467 --> 01:02:27,533
And what tells you
about the state they were in,
1430
01:02:27,567 --> 01:02:30,133
is the next morning
they woke up,
1431
01:02:30,167 --> 01:02:32,233
and genuinely did not know
1432
01:02:32,267 --> 01:02:34,633
they were lying next
to the dead body
of John Shepcock.
1433
01:02:34,667 --> 01:02:37,700
And what Anne Beverly told me,
is later she said,
1434
01:02:37,733 --> 01:02:39,900
then they knew they had to go.
1435
01:02:39,933 --> 01:02:43,300
Because the police
were already harassing
them for so many things,
1436
01:02:43,333 --> 01:02:46,200
and now, suddenly
they're waking up with
a dead body in their bed.
1437
01:02:46,233 --> 01:02:47,800
The way I remember
that whole thing
1438
01:02:47,833 --> 01:02:49,300
of Sid and Nancy hooking up
1439
01:02:49,333 --> 01:02:50,767
and then her pretending
to be his "manager"
1440
01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:53,167
and going to New York...
1441
01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:55,867
I have to say, that
things were moving
so fast by that time
1442
01:02:55,900 --> 01:02:57,367
that we didn't give a shit.
1443
01:02:59,500 --> 01:03:00,900
SID: Things aren't getting
any easier.
1444
01:03:00,933 --> 01:03:02,467
It's probably getting
worse and worse.
1445
01:03:02,500 --> 01:03:05,133
I hate this country
and everything to do with it.
1446
01:03:05,167 --> 01:03:06,900
You know, the punk rock thing
1447
01:03:06,933 --> 01:03:08,767
had taken off
and it had momentum.
1448
01:03:08,800 --> 01:03:11,933
And, no Sid, no Nancy
or any of that stuff
could really stop it.
1449
01:03:11,967 --> 01:03:13,900
So, we didn't really
think twice about it.
1450
01:03:13,933 --> 01:03:15,933
SID: I want to go live
somewhere else.
1451
01:03:15,967 --> 01:03:18,500
So, I mean we have
no plans whatsoever.
1452
01:03:18,533 --> 01:03:23,767
We just live today solely
existentialist like
Jean-Paul Sartre.
1453
01:03:26,500 --> 01:03:29,567
His entire, you know, roots
1454
01:03:29,600 --> 01:03:32,567
and everything
that he was obsessed with,
1455
01:03:32,600 --> 01:03:34,567
was in New York as well.
1456
01:03:34,600 --> 01:03:36,600
It was cool. New York was cool.
1457
01:03:36,633 --> 01:03:38,267
"Let's go to New York."
"It sounds good."
1458
01:03:38,300 --> 01:03:41,200
"We can play at Max's,
we can make money."
"Yeah, okay, bro."
1459
01:03:41,233 --> 01:03:42,767
"We'll launch our career
from there."
1460
01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:46,233
His obsession, with,
you know,
The New York Dolls
1461
01:03:46,267 --> 01:03:48,533
and the whole New York
1462
01:03:48,567 --> 01:03:50,600
punk rock
and pre-punk rock scene...
1463
01:03:50,633 --> 01:03:52,133
You know, between
the two of them,
1464
01:03:52,167 --> 01:03:54,433
where else...
That's where they had to go.
1465
01:03:54,467 --> 01:03:56,767
They were so excited.
1466
01:03:56,800 --> 01:03:58,767
They were like,
"We're going to America,
1467
01:03:58,800 --> 01:04:00,367
"and we are gonna just
1468
01:04:01,233 --> 01:04:02,333
"take over."
1469
01:04:03,967 --> 01:04:05,700
As opposed to,
"We're going to America
1470
01:04:05,733 --> 01:04:07,167
"and it's going to eat us."
1471
01:04:20,533 --> 01:04:22,633
[ROCK MUSIC PLAYING]
1472
01:04:29,500 --> 01:04:32,167
HOWIE: On the one hand
I think they came,
1473
01:04:32,200 --> 01:04:34,133
so she could show-off
1474
01:04:34,167 --> 01:04:36,500
and get back at everyone.
1475
01:04:36,533 --> 01:04:39,200
'Cause I don't think
that many people
liked her when she left.
1476
01:04:39,233 --> 01:04:41,867
New York reacted
to the return
1477
01:04:41,900 --> 01:04:43,133
of Nancy
1478
01:04:44,300 --> 01:04:46,133
pretty much
like you would expect.
1479
01:04:46,167 --> 01:04:49,633
She was like some, I guess,
third rate, whatever,
1480
01:04:49,667 --> 01:04:54,300
chick from New York
who never got paid
any attention as she came back.
1481
01:04:54,333 --> 01:04:57,133
It's almost like
a high school thing, you know.
1482
01:04:57,167 --> 01:04:58,300
This is all about her.
1483
01:04:58,333 --> 01:05:00,533
You know what I mean,
this was not about him.
1484
01:05:00,567 --> 01:05:03,133
This was about her.
For her.
You know what I mean.
1485
01:05:03,167 --> 01:05:05,333
She was doing that thing,
1486
01:05:05,367 --> 01:05:06,500
you know, when you pull up
1487
01:05:06,533 --> 01:05:08,433
to your high school reunion
in a Rolls Royce.
1488
01:05:08,467 --> 01:05:11,667
You know,
that's where she was at.
1489
01:05:17,300 --> 01:05:18,933
One year in England.
1490
01:05:18,967 --> 01:05:20,433
She came back with Sid,
1491
01:05:20,467 --> 01:05:22,567
and she had the thickest
Cockney accent
1492
01:05:22,600 --> 01:05:24,133
in the world, you know.
1493
01:05:24,167 --> 01:05:25,500
It's like, you know what...
1494
01:05:26,800 --> 01:05:28,300
The day before she had it,
1495
01:05:28,333 --> 01:05:29,700
she had like this...
I don't know, like,
1496
01:05:29,733 --> 01:05:32,600
Philadelphia, you know...
She grew up in Philadelphia.
1497
01:05:32,633 --> 01:05:35,200
Felt kinda like
the client's Nancy.
1498
01:05:35,233 --> 01:05:39,167
It's almost like
those Americans who come
back with British accents.
1499
01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:41,300
So, she came back
with a British boyfriend
1500
01:05:41,333 --> 01:05:43,233
and British money
and British fame.
1501
01:05:43,267 --> 01:05:46,700
And all of which
was wildly phony.
1502
01:05:46,733 --> 01:05:49,167
ELLIOT: She was Nancy,
you know,
she was running around.
1503
01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:51,467
She was like Mrs. Sid Vicious.
1504
01:05:51,500 --> 01:05:56,367
So, yes, everyone, everyone
really despised her.
1505
01:06:01,433 --> 01:06:04,167
Sid Vicious was barely big
on the underground in America.
1506
01:06:04,200 --> 01:06:06,867
You know, The Pistols
hadn't actually sold any units,
1507
01:06:06,900 --> 01:06:08,667
they'd already split up.
1508
01:06:08,700 --> 01:06:12,467
It would be ten years later
before their album
went Platinum in America.
1509
01:06:12,500 --> 01:06:14,300
So, when he arrived,
1510
01:06:14,333 --> 01:06:17,300
he would've been famous
within his click of people.
1511
01:06:17,333 --> 01:06:21,300
I'm talking about
a very basic underground fame.
1512
01:06:21,333 --> 01:06:23,833
People would throw shit
at us in the streets.
1513
01:06:23,867 --> 01:06:26,533
You know, Sid Vicious
was not a rockstar
1514
01:06:26,567 --> 01:06:29,267
except among
that circle of people.
1515
01:06:36,267 --> 01:06:38,300
As for the landmark
Chelsea Hotel,
1516
01:06:38,333 --> 01:06:40,300
it is more used to names
like Dylan Thomas,
1517
01:06:40,333 --> 01:06:42,433
and Bob Dylan
than that of Sid Vicious.
1518
01:06:42,467 --> 01:06:44,467
The Chelsea hotel was a, uh...
1519
01:06:45,200 --> 01:06:46,733
A fancy low-life
1520
01:06:47,367 --> 01:06:48,567
[LAUGHING]
1521
01:06:48,600 --> 01:06:52,333
nightmare with a hefty history.
1522
01:06:52,367 --> 01:06:56,133
But it's mystique
was that so many artists,
1523
01:06:56,167 --> 01:06:59,500
from Andy Warhol
to Muhammad Ali...
1524
01:06:59,533 --> 01:07:04,800
It was a place where
the it people
would feel comfortable.
1525
01:07:04,833 --> 01:07:07,167
NEON: Dylan Thomas
to Bob Dylan,
1526
01:07:07,200 --> 01:07:11,133
all these brilliant artists
were there at some
period of time.
1527
01:07:11,167 --> 01:07:14,200
I first moved
into the Chelsea in 1975.
1528
01:07:14,233 --> 01:07:16,567
And I lived there
on and off until '81.
1529
01:07:16,600 --> 01:07:18,633
NEON: You're allowed
to do things
1530
01:07:18,667 --> 01:07:20,933
you wouldn't be able to do
in other hotels.
1531
01:07:20,967 --> 01:07:23,167
You can take the bed apart.
1532
01:07:23,200 --> 01:07:26,267
You can throw the bed out.
You can put it in the hallway.
1533
01:07:26,300 --> 01:07:29,667
It was an extremely
dingy, dark place.
1534
01:07:29,700 --> 01:07:33,233
You can paint the walls
each week a different color.
1535
01:07:33,267 --> 01:07:35,900
Hang what you want on it,
nail What you want up on it.
1536
01:07:35,933 --> 01:07:40,300
The rooms were anything
but attractive.
1537
01:07:40,333 --> 01:07:43,233
How dingy your room was
or how posh your room was,
1538
01:07:43,267 --> 01:07:45,800
was up to you, not the hotel.
1539
01:07:45,833 --> 01:07:48,533
LEEE: They were so available
at the Chelsea Hotel.
1540
01:07:48,567 --> 01:07:50,567
Everyone knew where they were.
1541
01:07:50,600 --> 01:07:52,833
And everyone knew
when they had drugs.
1542
01:07:52,867 --> 01:07:55,767
There was no screening
at the front desk.
1543
01:07:55,800 --> 01:07:57,500
People just in and out.
1544
01:07:57,533 --> 01:08:00,500
And every drug dealer
wanted to sell them something
1545
01:08:00,533 --> 01:08:02,833
because, "Yeah,
they've got money
and they're famous."
1546
01:08:02,867 --> 01:08:05,567
STEVE: The Chelsea Hotel,
I think, was also
kind of a...
1547
01:08:05,600 --> 01:08:07,300
Maybe not the greatest
move for them
1548
01:08:07,333 --> 01:08:09,500
because you had a lot
of characters in there.
1549
01:08:09,533 --> 01:08:11,900
Rockets Redglare,
and these sleazy fuckers
1550
01:08:11,933 --> 01:08:14,700
who just wanted to be,
sort of, in there with Sid,
1551
01:08:14,733 --> 01:08:16,667
and obviously, you know...
1552
01:08:16,700 --> 01:08:18,933
Wanting to rub shoulders
1553
01:08:18,967 --> 01:08:21,167
with this icon, you know.
1554
01:08:21,200 --> 01:08:24,633
So, immediately they fell in
with all the creeps.
1555
01:08:24,667 --> 01:08:28,833
And maybe I should say
"us creeps."
[LAUGHING]
1556
01:08:28,867 --> 01:08:32,567
NEON: And there was this blond
there at the reception,
1557
01:08:32,600 --> 01:08:34,733
kinda stumbling.
1558
01:08:34,767 --> 01:08:39,600
Surrounded all these
pound notes and US notes
on the floor.
1559
01:08:39,633 --> 01:08:43,600
And the guy
behind the reception
looking really irritated.
1560
01:08:43,633 --> 01:08:45,900
Like, "Ugh, God!"
1561
01:08:45,933 --> 01:08:47,233
And me and Honi O' Rourke
1562
01:08:47,267 --> 01:08:49,200
went and said,
"You could meet her."
1563
01:08:49,233 --> 01:08:50,433
And it was Nancy.
1564
01:08:50,467 --> 01:08:53,833
She had like a big bruise
on the side of her head.
1565
01:08:53,867 --> 01:08:56,267
She's says, "Oh, wow,
look what happened to me.
1566
01:08:56,300 --> 01:09:00,200
"We were at
Johnny Rotten's place
or something, somebody OD'd."
1567
01:09:00,233 --> 01:09:02,900
Something, and she was hit
with a bat or something.
1568
01:09:02,933 --> 01:09:04,367
We had to leave.
1569
01:09:05,300 --> 01:09:06,800
"Oh, okay.
1570
01:09:06,833 --> 01:09:08,567
"Ah, you want to meet Sid!"
1571
01:09:19,733 --> 01:09:21,367
We got him on to methadone.
1572
01:09:21,400 --> 01:09:24,233
It was one of the first
things we did
because he was not well.
1573
01:09:24,267 --> 01:09:26,300
He came with
a massive habit from London,
1574
01:09:26,333 --> 01:09:28,867
the heroin in London is much
stronger than it was New York,
1575
01:09:28,900 --> 01:09:30,433
so that was the problem.
1576
01:09:30,467 --> 01:09:32,200
So, that wasn't holding him.
1577
01:09:32,233 --> 01:09:36,800
I mean, these are the problems
you have when you travel.
1578
01:09:36,833 --> 01:09:39,267
ALAN: I mean, when they
arrived in America,
1579
01:09:39,300 --> 01:09:40,667
we must remember
1580
01:09:40,700 --> 01:09:42,933
there was a fairly substantial
lump of money due to them
1581
01:09:42,967 --> 01:09:45,233
from the cover
of the song My Way.
1582
01:09:45,267 --> 01:09:49,267
But of course, they were two
very desperate heroin addicts.
1583
01:09:49,300 --> 01:09:50,667
Waiting around for money
1584
01:09:50,700 --> 01:09:53,233
was not particularly
on the agenda on a daily basis.
1585
01:09:53,267 --> 01:09:55,433
She had to have money
readily available.
1586
01:09:55,467 --> 01:09:58,400
ESTHER: Sid and Jerry
were good friends.
1587
01:09:58,433 --> 01:10:01,833
And Jerry suggested
they get a band,
1588
01:10:01,867 --> 01:10:03,633
and so they did.
1589
01:10:03,667 --> 01:10:06,367
Um, it's gonna be Sid,
Jerry Nolan
1590
01:10:06,400 --> 01:10:08,133
and Arthur Kane
from The Dolls
1591
01:10:08,167 --> 01:10:11,600
and Steve Dior
from Jerry's new group
The Idols.
1592
01:10:11,633 --> 01:10:14,933
ESTHER: They were
gonna have Johnny Thunders
play with them.
1593
01:10:14,967 --> 01:10:17,133
But he wasn't very skilled,
you know.
1594
01:10:17,167 --> 01:10:20,933
So, eventually
my brother played with them.
1595
01:10:20,967 --> 01:10:22,700
We finally decided
we were gonna do it.
1596
01:10:22,733 --> 01:10:24,333
Nancy negotiated.
1597
01:10:24,367 --> 01:10:26,633
Actually, Jerry Nolan
negotiated to be
honest with you.
1598
01:10:26,667 --> 01:10:27,833
It was good deal.
1599
01:10:27,867 --> 01:10:29,933
Do two shows a night,
it was a Thursday night,
1600
01:10:29,967 --> 01:10:31,767
two shows, six fellows in.
1601
01:10:32,700 --> 01:10:34,300
I think the place held about...
1602
01:10:34,333 --> 01:10:36,667
You could cram 2,000
in there upstairs.
1603
01:10:36,700 --> 01:10:42,200
I remember, Brenda,
she was booking things
to have Sid play in Max's.
1604
01:10:42,233 --> 01:10:43,900
I mean, she got a big advance
1605
01:10:43,933 --> 01:10:46,433
I think from
Tommy Dean Mills,
Tommy Dean,
1606
01:10:46,467 --> 01:10:49,167
who is the new owner
for Mickey Ruskin.
1607
01:10:49,200 --> 01:10:50,400
So, I think that's pretty good,
1608
01:10:50,433 --> 01:10:52,500
although she didn't have
any power.
1609
01:10:52,533 --> 01:10:56,500
I couldn't go in there
and say, "Okay,
give me all this money."
1610
01:10:56,533 --> 01:10:57,800
You know,
and they say, "Yeah."
1611
01:10:57,833 --> 01:10:59,367
And I haven't even
played note?
1612
01:11:00,633 --> 01:11:03,400
And not many people
in this scene could do that.
1613
01:11:08,333 --> 01:11:09,567
It was a cool show.
1614
01:11:09,600 --> 01:11:12,200
He was happy at
sound check and everything.
1615
01:11:12,233 --> 01:11:15,800
Where Steve Dior...
We're all around,
we're doing the sound check.
1616
01:11:15,833 --> 01:11:18,800
He was just a little
too stoned by the time
showtime rolled around.
1617
01:11:18,833 --> 01:11:20,700
HOWIE: It was very exciting
and packed.
1618
01:11:20,733 --> 01:11:22,400
And it sucked.
1619
01:11:22,433 --> 01:11:24,167
You know, just
like you would expect.
1620
01:11:24,200 --> 01:11:26,600
It didn't suck... I mean,
he was just so fucked up.
1621
01:11:26,633 --> 01:11:28,133
First night, he gets wasted.
1622
01:11:28,167 --> 01:11:31,167
And I said, "Sid, get stoned
after the show, please.
1623
01:11:31,200 --> 01:11:34,533
"Do a good show and let's all
have a good time after."
1624
01:11:34,567 --> 01:11:36,333
Things didn't go well
at that show.
1625
01:11:36,367 --> 01:11:38,467
The crowd was a bit nasty
at the moment.
1626
01:11:38,500 --> 01:11:40,567
Sid could barely stand up,
1627
01:11:40,600 --> 01:11:43,633
he kinda picked up where
he left off in San Francisco.
1628
01:11:43,667 --> 01:11:45,633
And was nodding out
on stage.
1629
01:11:45,667 --> 01:11:49,133
It was a success
because it was packed.
1630
01:11:49,167 --> 01:11:50,533
There were lines
around the block.
1631
01:11:50,567 --> 01:11:53,167
I know they were making quite
good money during the gigs.
1632
01:11:53,200 --> 01:11:54,500
They could do Max's
1633
01:11:54,533 --> 01:11:56,400
and Sid himself would pocket
1634
01:11:56,433 --> 01:11:59,400
probably about three
or four thousand dollars easily.
1635
01:11:59,433 --> 01:12:01,400
I got good money
for those shows.
1636
01:12:01,433 --> 01:12:03,933
And it was pocket money for Sid.
1637
01:12:03,967 --> 01:12:05,533
It was pocket money
for all those people,
1638
01:12:05,567 --> 01:12:07,867
anybody who played
in that band.
1639
01:12:07,900 --> 01:12:09,267
It was good money for.
1640
01:12:10,233 --> 01:12:11,867
[POLICE RADIO CRACKLING]
1641
01:12:17,233 --> 01:12:19,533
ALAN: Leading
up to the death of Nancy,
1642
01:12:19,567 --> 01:12:21,533
things on the New York
underground,
1643
01:12:21,567 --> 01:12:22,933
and this could be
because heroin
1644
01:12:22,967 --> 01:12:26,367
was getting harder to find
on a daily basis,
1645
01:12:26,400 --> 01:12:28,633
did seem to get
a lot more scuzzy.
1646
01:12:28,667 --> 01:12:30,600
The Dead Boys drummer
was famously stabbed
1647
01:12:30,633 --> 01:12:33,133
outside a taxi rank
at 4:00 in the morning.
1648
01:12:33,167 --> 01:12:35,567
And a lot of the people
on the underground
1649
01:12:35,600 --> 01:12:37,400
were arming themselves.
1650
01:12:37,433 --> 01:12:39,167
You know,
it's quite well documented,
1651
01:12:39,200 --> 01:12:41,533
that people like
Dee Dee Ramone
and Steve Bates
1652
01:12:41,567 --> 01:12:42,767
weren't just buying knives,
1653
01:12:42,800 --> 01:12:45,133
they were telling
other people to buy knives.
1654
01:12:45,167 --> 01:12:47,533
Because there was obviously
something going very wrong,
1655
01:12:47,567 --> 01:12:50,533
on the scuzzy side
of Manhattan if you like.
1656
01:12:54,967 --> 01:12:56,900
There shouldn't be
too much doubt,
1657
01:12:56,933 --> 01:12:59,133
uh, in anyone's mind
1658
01:12:59,167 --> 01:13:01,267
that the tension between them
1659
01:13:01,300 --> 01:13:02,833
was coming to a head.
1660
01:13:04,367 --> 01:13:07,167
Don't drop it on me again!
1661
01:13:07,833 --> 01:13:10,567
For anyone that wonders
1662
01:13:10,600 --> 01:13:12,733
at what might have happened
on the 12th,
1663
01:13:12,767 --> 01:13:15,867
I think that you need
to start with those shows.
1664
01:13:15,900 --> 01:13:19,533
You know, she'd gotten
really kinda pushy.
1665
01:13:19,567 --> 01:13:23,300
And a degree of arrogance
which was a disguise, I think,
1666
01:13:23,333 --> 01:13:24,733
for insecurities
1667
01:13:24,767 --> 01:13:27,533
that were going on with her
and Sid and their relationship.
1668
01:13:32,800 --> 01:13:34,900
I think maybe it was Nancy,
1669
01:13:34,933 --> 01:13:37,567
who called up
Honi O'Rourke, right.
1670
01:13:37,600 --> 01:13:42,867
And, uh, says, "Oh,
Sid and I are gonna come by."
1671
01:13:42,900 --> 01:13:45,167
At the time, I don't know,
it was before 12:00,
1672
01:13:45,200 --> 01:13:46,933
several hours before 12:00.
1673
01:13:46,967 --> 01:13:49,500
And they came to the room,
1674
01:13:49,533 --> 01:13:51,567
and Nancy had a portfolio
1675
01:13:51,600 --> 01:13:54,433
of like press clippings.
And we ate.
1676
01:13:54,467 --> 01:13:55,800
They were kinda depressed.
1677
01:13:57,467 --> 01:14:01,467
* She's got some
Nasty habits... *
1678
01:14:01,500 --> 01:14:03,933
NEON: And they started
going through the pictures.
1679
01:14:03,967 --> 01:14:06,267
And he's like,
"Remember that day
1680
01:14:06,300 --> 01:14:08,167
"and now look at us.
1681
01:14:08,200 --> 01:14:10,233
"Look, we're all fucked up."
1682
01:14:10,267 --> 01:14:13,533
It wasn't even exactly feeling
sorry for themselves.
1683
01:14:13,567 --> 01:14:16,467
It was like, "Where are we?
1684
01:14:16,500 --> 01:14:20,767
"Wow, are we ever gonna get
the glory days back?"
1685
01:14:20,800 --> 01:14:22,767
I mean, the one thing
we need to understand about
1686
01:14:22,800 --> 01:14:25,167
October the 12th,
the night that Nancy died,
1687
01:14:25,200 --> 01:14:26,667
there was no heroin about.
1688
01:14:26,700 --> 01:14:30,267
And that's what leads us back
to the Dilaudid and the Tuinal
1689
01:14:30,300 --> 01:14:32,733
and various capsules and pills
that were brought in for them
1690
01:14:32,767 --> 01:14:34,533
by various people that night.
1691
01:14:34,567 --> 01:14:38,133
They left.
This is maybe around 12:00.
1692
01:14:39,300 --> 01:14:40,367
Close to it.
1693
01:14:40,400 --> 01:14:41,700
And then I went out.
1694
01:14:41,733 --> 01:14:42,800
You can imagine, you know,
1695
01:14:42,833 --> 01:14:44,600
Sid and Nancy
were clucking like chickens.
1696
01:14:44,633 --> 01:14:46,767
They were coming down
cold Turkey.
1697
01:14:46,800 --> 01:14:48,767
Which was the worst way
to come off drugs.
1698
01:14:48,800 --> 01:14:50,700
This is why they
were having a party
1699
01:14:50,733 --> 01:14:52,767
and buying a lot of drugs.
1700
01:14:52,800 --> 01:14:54,700
VICTOR: I had gotten in
just after midnight,
1701
01:14:54,733 --> 01:14:58,333
he called and said
they were, you know, looking
1702
01:14:58,367 --> 01:14:59,867
for something to relax with.
1703
01:14:59,900 --> 01:15:02,700
And then I went with Kelly.
1704
01:15:02,733 --> 01:15:05,833
Uh, I think Leon
wanted to bring them
1705
01:15:05,867 --> 01:15:07,700
to the room to get
the brownie points.
1706
01:15:07,733 --> 01:15:10,567
But Kelly insisted and insisted
that I go with her.
1707
01:15:10,600 --> 01:15:12,833
* Really loves to party
1708
01:15:14,933 --> 01:15:17,700
* She never wants to leave...
1709
01:15:18,867 --> 01:15:20,867
It was just Sid there
that I remember.
1710
01:15:20,900 --> 01:15:23,100
Nancy, she just gave us
the money.
1711
01:15:23,467 --> 01:15:24,867
Uh, we left.
1712
01:15:24,900 --> 01:15:27,900
Someone came over and told me
there was a party at Sid's
1713
01:15:27,933 --> 01:15:29,300
and asked me
if I was going.
1714
01:15:29,333 --> 01:15:30,700
I didn't really
wanna be there.
1715
01:15:30,733 --> 01:15:32,533
You didn't know it was going
to be an important night,
1716
01:15:32,567 --> 01:15:34,667
it was just another
night out in New York.
1717
01:15:34,700 --> 01:15:38,833
Then, around 2:00
or something, 3:00,
1718
01:15:38,867 --> 01:15:41,900
I had a violent tooth ache
and a stomach ache.
1719
01:15:41,933 --> 01:15:45,167
Well, it's 19 years ago um...
1720
01:15:45,200 --> 01:15:47,633
But I know I don't go out
before midnight.
1721
01:15:47,667 --> 01:15:50,633
And I know Max's
closes at 4:00.
1722
01:15:50,667 --> 01:15:52,467
Probably somewhere
between 2:00 and 4:00.
1723
01:15:52,500 --> 01:15:54,267
So, I went home.
1724
01:15:54,300 --> 01:15:57,467
And then was seeking some type
of medication like a joint.
1725
01:15:57,500 --> 01:16:01,533
Right, and there was a dancer,
1726
01:16:01,567 --> 01:16:04,933
who lived on another floor.
1727
01:16:04,967 --> 01:16:06,667
hanging out
with a friend of mine, uh,
1728
01:16:06,700 --> 01:16:09,533
Pepe Valentine,
he was from
a group called Squirrels.
1729
01:16:09,567 --> 01:16:10,933
Now, he is Victor Colicchio
1730
01:16:10,967 --> 01:16:13,333
and a girl named Kelly Garrett.
1731
01:16:13,367 --> 01:16:15,333
And I called her up
and asked her,
1732
01:16:15,367 --> 01:16:17,233
"Oh, do you have a joint,
I got a tooth ache and stuff."
1733
01:16:17,267 --> 01:16:18,600
She came down.
1734
01:16:18,633 --> 01:16:20,767
Neon claims to have been
in the room with Kelly
1735
01:16:20,800 --> 01:16:23,167
and no last name
residents of room 301
1736
01:16:23,200 --> 01:16:26,633
where he received a call
from Nancy asking
for pot at 4:00 a.m.
1737
01:16:26,667 --> 01:16:28,200
Nancy called me.
1738
01:16:28,233 --> 01:16:29,467
Wanted to know
if I had a joint.
1739
01:16:29,500 --> 01:16:31,200
She talked about Sid.
1740
01:16:31,233 --> 01:16:32,533
I said, "How is he?"
1741
01:16:32,567 --> 01:16:34,733
And she says, "Oh, he's done
a couple of Dilaudids.
1742
01:16:34,767 --> 01:16:36,633
"And he is out of it
1743
01:16:36,667 --> 01:16:38,367
"and he's useless."
1744
01:16:38,400 --> 01:16:41,400
There was another voice
in the background
and it wasn't Sid.
1745
01:16:41,433 --> 01:16:42,933
I couldn't tell who it was,
1746
01:16:42,967 --> 01:16:44,867
but there was somebody else
in the room.
1747
01:16:44,900 --> 01:16:46,567
And she says, "Okay, well,
1748
01:16:46,600 --> 01:16:49,367
"call if you hear
about something."
1749
01:16:49,400 --> 01:16:52,533
I said, "Yeah, of course."
Right.
1750
01:16:52,567 --> 01:16:54,433
It was I'd say
between 4:00 and 5:00,
1751
01:16:54,467 --> 01:16:56,700
that they came,
that they called up.
1752
01:16:56,733 --> 01:16:58,233
Kelly came down to the room,
1753
01:16:58,267 --> 01:17:00,133
by the time I got dressed
and got down to the room...
1754
01:17:00,167 --> 01:17:01,467
We knocked on the door
1755
01:17:01,500 --> 01:17:03,633
and she opened
the door partially.
1756
01:17:03,667 --> 01:17:06,933
Uh, Sid was out of it,
out of it.
1757
01:17:06,967 --> 01:17:10,933
Uh, and there was a guy
in the room,
1758
01:17:10,967 --> 01:17:14,633
who I believe
always his name to be,
1759
01:17:14,667 --> 01:17:17,500
I would say Snakey, Spidey,
1760
01:17:17,533 --> 01:17:20,400
Skippy, I just remembered...
1761
01:17:20,433 --> 01:17:23,733
You know, a "S" and "E"
in the name.
I didn't pay attention.
1762
01:17:23,767 --> 01:17:25,667
And he was there
and they already had enough.
1763
01:17:25,700 --> 01:17:27,333
Sid was passed out.
1764
01:17:27,367 --> 01:17:30,500
And that was the last time
I saw either one of them.
1765
01:17:31,800 --> 01:17:35,667
So, I walked in, you know,
scanned around the room.
1766
01:17:35,700 --> 01:17:38,700
Sid was passed out on the bed,
passed out.
1767
01:17:38,733 --> 01:17:41,300
WOMAN: Did he move at all
while you were there?
No.
1768
01:17:41,333 --> 01:17:42,600
Never said anything?
1769
01:17:43,167 --> 01:17:44,367
Said anything?
1770
01:17:44,867 --> 01:17:45,867
No.
1771
01:17:46,800 --> 01:17:50,800
I was familiar
with his condition.
1772
01:17:50,833 --> 01:17:53,833
He wasn't sane, he probably
wasn't even dreaming.
1773
01:17:53,867 --> 01:17:58,133
But someone said, uh,
he had about 30 Tuinals.
1774
01:17:58,167 --> 01:18:00,567
ALAN: Basically, like Dilaudid,
it's the kind of drug
1775
01:18:00,600 --> 01:18:02,867
that's given
to cancer patients
1776
01:18:02,900 --> 01:18:04,733
to block out everything.
1777
01:18:04,767 --> 01:18:06,533
WOMAN: What are the
likelihoods that someone
1778
01:18:06,567 --> 01:18:09,733
who had eaten
30 Tuinals would get up
1779
01:18:09,767 --> 01:18:12,367
in an hour,
in a couple of hours and...
1780
01:18:12,400 --> 01:18:14,400
There is no possibility.
1781
01:18:14,967 --> 01:18:16,200
There is none.
1782
01:18:16,233 --> 01:18:19,167
Everybody who was
at that party,
1783
01:18:19,200 --> 01:18:21,833
told me how Sid was so stoned,
1784
01:18:21,867 --> 01:18:24,267
he could not
have lifted that knife,
1785
01:18:24,300 --> 01:18:26,733
much less stabbed
somebody with it.
1786
01:18:26,767 --> 01:18:30,367
Now, 30 Tuinal, you know,
boys and girls, will kill you.
1787
01:18:30,400 --> 01:18:33,600
It's not the kind of
experiment you wanna try
just to be like Sid Vicious.
1788
01:18:33,633 --> 01:18:35,900
It will kill you.
It'll fell a tree.
1789
01:18:35,933 --> 01:18:37,400
Now, whether he ate 30
1790
01:18:37,433 --> 01:18:39,400
or whether he ate three,
I don't know.
1791
01:18:39,433 --> 01:18:43,500
But, I knew people
who could do 30 Tuinals.
1792
01:18:44,233 --> 01:18:45,600
You know.
1793
01:18:45,633 --> 01:18:47,467
I was one of them.
1794
01:18:47,500 --> 01:18:50,133
'Cause when I saw him
and I know the amount
of Tuinals he took...
1795
01:18:50,767 --> 01:18:51,767
And...
1796
01:18:53,333 --> 01:18:55,833
I just can't see him killing
and going back to sleep
1797
01:18:55,867 --> 01:18:59,300
and there was just a lot of it
that didn't make sense.
1798
01:18:59,333 --> 01:19:00,633
I know for a fact
there are people
1799
01:19:00,667 --> 01:19:03,633
who went into that room
that night that Nancy died.
1800
01:19:03,667 --> 01:19:06,467
And when they told
their stories years later,
1801
01:19:06,500 --> 01:19:07,933
they said,
"Talk about the shock
1802
01:19:07,967 --> 01:19:10,233
"when we woke up
the next morning,
Nancy was dead.
1803
01:19:10,267 --> 01:19:12,233
"When we left
the Chelsea that night,
1804
01:19:12,267 --> 01:19:14,300
"we thought we're looking
at the late Sid Vicious.
1805
01:19:14,333 --> 01:19:16,167
A while later,
1806
01:19:16,200 --> 01:19:19,400
there's like a knocking
on the door.
1807
01:19:19,433 --> 01:19:24,733
No, pounding is more,
you know...
And it was so scary.
1808
01:19:24,767 --> 01:19:28,267
And then there was a sound,
to me it sounded like metal,
1809
01:19:29,433 --> 01:19:32,100
hitting the floor.
And some mumbling.
1810
01:19:33,567 --> 01:19:35,933
And, silence.
1811
01:19:35,967 --> 01:19:38,433
Honi O' Rourke came back
around 6:00 or something
1812
01:19:38,467 --> 01:19:40,800
and said that there's some
blood outside the door.
1813
01:19:40,833 --> 01:19:43,600
The thing that really
struck me though
1814
01:19:43,633 --> 01:19:45,833
was why no one had ever talked
to any of the people
1815
01:19:45,867 --> 01:19:47,433
who were actually there.
1816
01:19:47,467 --> 01:19:50,267
That there were so many
people in The Chelsea,
1817
01:19:50,300 --> 01:19:52,533
they were in that room
that night.
1818
01:19:52,567 --> 01:19:54,500
And that none of these people
1819
01:19:54,533 --> 01:19:57,467
seemed to have told anyone
their story.
1820
01:19:57,500 --> 01:20:00,467
As a matter of fact,
in the lobby
of the Chelsea Hotel,
1821
01:20:00,500 --> 01:20:02,667
the next morning,
when all the press,
1822
01:20:03,500 --> 01:20:04,767
and everybody was there,
1823
01:20:04,800 --> 01:20:06,833
there were newspaper people
all over the place,
1824
01:20:06,867 --> 01:20:08,500
I did approach one detective.
1825
01:20:08,533 --> 01:20:10,167
I don't remember his name,
1826
01:20:10,200 --> 01:20:12,233
but he wasn't interested at all
in anything that I had to say.
1827
01:20:12,267 --> 01:20:14,700
And the knife was left here
on the suitcase?
1828
01:20:14,733 --> 01:20:17,533
This is interesting.
I've got a better picture.
1829
01:20:19,333 --> 01:20:21,833
Yeah, look at that.
That's clean.
1830
01:20:21,867 --> 01:20:23,833
No blood,
no fingerprints, nothing.
1831
01:20:25,300 --> 01:20:27,367
VICTOR: I can't see
Sid wiping it.
1832
01:20:27,400 --> 01:20:30,267
And I can't see him, uh,
1833
01:20:30,300 --> 01:20:31,367
placing it there.
1834
01:20:33,633 --> 01:20:34,767
MALCOLM: And I think that
1835
01:20:34,800 --> 01:20:37,767
the mitigating circumstances
were such,
1836
01:20:37,800 --> 01:20:41,167
as told to me by the lawyer
that was representing him,
1837
01:20:41,200 --> 01:20:44,900
if there were no fingerprints
on this particular knife,
1838
01:20:44,933 --> 01:20:47,867
then we would obviously
have a very good case.
1839
01:20:47,900 --> 01:20:49,400
ALAN: Sergeant Houseman,
I think, looked
1840
01:20:49,433 --> 01:20:51,167
into the whole thing
a bit deeper.
1841
01:20:51,200 --> 01:20:53,833
And he suggested,
1842
01:20:53,867 --> 01:20:58,167
that had there been more time
and more digging done,
1843
01:20:58,200 --> 01:21:00,500
it's just possible there may
have been a different outcome
1844
01:21:00,533 --> 01:21:01,900
when the whole thing
got to court.
1845
01:21:01,933 --> 01:21:04,900
I know the police wanted
to speak to six people,
1846
01:21:04,933 --> 01:21:07,167
they never told me
the names of those people,
1847
01:21:08,233 --> 01:21:10,267
but I know
that in the police file,
1848
01:21:10,300 --> 01:21:11,433
there is at least one page
1849
01:21:11,467 --> 01:21:13,500
where six names
have been wiped out.
1850
01:21:13,533 --> 01:21:17,333
VICTOR: These names,
the fingerprints
must have been on record.
1851
01:21:17,367 --> 01:21:20,467
In order for my name
to be on here,
1852
01:21:20,500 --> 01:21:22,367
I would have to give
the cops my fingerprint.
1853
01:21:23,400 --> 01:21:24,633
So, it indicates to me
1854
01:21:24,667 --> 01:21:27,600
that these people
had previous criminal records,
1855
01:21:27,633 --> 01:21:29,867
otherwise, their fingerprints
wouldn't be on file.
1856
01:21:29,900 --> 01:21:31,900
ALAN: I just think it was one
of those scenarios,
1857
01:21:31,933 --> 01:21:33,467
where if they had
a little bit more time,
1858
01:21:33,500 --> 01:21:36,233
they may have done
more with it.
1859
01:21:36,267 --> 01:21:38,300
Right after this thing happened,
1860
01:21:38,333 --> 01:21:40,400
everybody in New York
was suspicious,
1861
01:21:40,433 --> 01:21:42,133
because the stories came out
1862
01:21:42,167 --> 01:21:44,867
that no money
was found in the room.
1863
01:21:46,267 --> 01:21:48,533
And people who'd
been at the party
1864
01:21:48,567 --> 01:21:50,833
saw her flashing
a lot money around.
1865
01:21:50,867 --> 01:21:52,867
NARRATOR: In the weeks leading
up to Nancy's murder,
1866
01:21:52,900 --> 01:21:56,333
Sid had played lucrative gigs
at Max's Kansas City.
1867
01:21:56,367 --> 01:21:59,300
And finally, been paid
his royalties on the sales
of My Way.
1868
01:21:59,333 --> 01:22:01,367
Paid in cash for both.
1869
01:22:01,400 --> 01:22:03,700
Whatever else happened
in room 100 that night,
1870
01:22:03,733 --> 01:22:05,267
are we also supposed to believe
1871
01:22:05,300 --> 01:22:07,367
that all this money
simply vanished?
1872
01:22:07,400 --> 01:22:08,633
Yet during the night,
1873
01:22:08,667 --> 01:22:11,333
the room had been accessed
by drug dealers, junkies,
1874
01:22:11,367 --> 01:22:14,533
band members and by NYPD.
1875
01:22:14,567 --> 01:22:17,733
ALAN: The NYPD had no clue
there was any missing money.
1876
01:22:17,767 --> 01:22:19,267
It's only
when various witnesses
1877
01:22:19,300 --> 01:22:20,500
started giving their statements
1878
01:22:20,533 --> 01:22:23,267
and talking about Nancy
dropping 100-dollar bills
1879
01:22:23,300 --> 01:22:24,633
in the corridor of the Chelsea.
1880
01:22:24,667 --> 01:22:27,900
I remember following Nancy
through the lobby,
1881
01:22:27,933 --> 01:22:29,467
picking up her money
1882
01:22:29,500 --> 01:22:32,700
because she was always dropping
100-dollar bills behind her.
1883
01:22:32,733 --> 01:22:36,533
I felt like Nancy had lost
some of her street smarts.
1884
01:22:36,567 --> 01:22:39,133
And picking those up, "Nancy,
put these away.
1885
01:22:39,167 --> 01:22:42,467
"This is, you know, remember
New York city." [LAUGHING]
1886
01:22:42,500 --> 01:22:44,433
NEON: The old Nancy, right,
1887
01:22:44,467 --> 01:22:47,367
would've never been
in a lobby of a hotel,
1888
01:22:47,400 --> 01:22:49,200
with thousands of pounds.
1889
01:22:49,800 --> 01:22:50,800
In New York?
1890
01:22:51,967 --> 01:22:53,567
What!
1891
01:22:53,600 --> 01:22:55,133
We were like,
"Put your money away.
What are you doing?
1892
01:22:55,167 --> 01:22:56,333
"Don't want people to see that."
1893
01:22:56,367 --> 01:22:58,933
"Are you, you know...
That's nuts!"
1894
01:22:58,967 --> 01:23:00,600
And you know, "Oh, fuck you."
1895
01:23:00,633 --> 01:23:02,533
I mean, she always had
about three grand on her.
1896
01:23:02,567 --> 01:23:04,500
Yeah, some people
1897
01:23:04,533 --> 01:23:06,733
might suspect the cops
have taken it.
1898
01:23:06,767 --> 01:23:09,367
But, uh, um,
1899
01:23:09,400 --> 01:23:10,933
I would think it would've...
1900
01:23:10,967 --> 01:23:12,600
I don't think it was
a motive in the killing,
1901
01:23:12,633 --> 01:23:13,733
but, uh,
1902
01:23:13,767 --> 01:23:15,700
it was an opportunity.
1903
01:23:16,733 --> 01:23:18,200
WOMAN: Sid?
Yeah.
1904
01:23:18,233 --> 01:23:21,300
What did he tell you?
He told me that,
1905
01:23:21,333 --> 01:23:23,733
he saw the drawer where
they kept their money was open.
1906
01:23:24,500 --> 01:23:25,900
And, it was missing.
1907
01:23:25,933 --> 01:23:28,667
And then he went
into the bathroom,
she was under the sink.
1908
01:23:28,700 --> 01:23:29,733
Oh.
1909
01:23:29,767 --> 01:23:31,300
And she was all bloody.
1910
01:23:31,333 --> 01:23:32,767
Somebody came in the room,
1911
01:23:32,800 --> 01:23:35,700
stabbed Nancy,
took the money and left.
1912
01:23:35,733 --> 01:23:39,133
That seemed like
a pretty normal story to me.
1913
01:23:39,167 --> 01:23:42,267
You know that
if you knew Nancy,
1914
01:23:42,300 --> 01:23:45,700
if she caught someone robbing
her money, she would attack.
1915
01:23:45,733 --> 01:23:48,367
There's talk
of a party in the room.
1916
01:23:48,400 --> 01:23:50,700
I can't see it as being
much of a party
1917
01:23:50,733 --> 01:23:53,300
because we know already
that Sid was out cold
1918
01:23:53,333 --> 01:23:56,167
before the night
was too old.
1919
01:23:56,200 --> 01:23:57,900
There were people
in and out of there.
1920
01:23:57,933 --> 01:24:01,333
ALAN: There wasn't
that many people
hanging around and staying.
1921
01:24:01,367 --> 01:24:03,200
HOWIE: And I think
they were the same people
1922
01:24:03,233 --> 01:24:04,333
over and over again.
1923
01:24:10,600 --> 01:24:14,433
We know that some people
said that some "drug dealer"
1924
01:24:14,467 --> 01:24:18,433
from the Chelsea Hotel
had been in there at that time.
1925
01:24:18,467 --> 01:24:20,700
Rockets Redglare,
he was another
1926
01:24:20,733 --> 01:24:22,400
self-seeking nutso.
1927
01:24:22,433 --> 01:24:24,633
Uh, wonderful person,
by the way.
1928
01:24:24,667 --> 01:24:25,867
But, uh, crazy.
1929
01:24:25,900 --> 01:24:28,833
I remember running into
Rockets on Avenue Way.
1930
01:24:28,867 --> 01:24:30,800
I remember
exactly where it was,
1931
01:24:30,833 --> 01:24:32,133
just by the street.
1932
01:24:32,167 --> 01:24:34,833
He'd sort of linked arms
with me and leaned on me
1933
01:24:34,867 --> 01:24:36,567
and he was
a tremendously big guy.
1934
01:24:36,600 --> 01:24:38,733
Told me,
"I'm writing a book.
1935
01:24:38,767 --> 01:24:40,867
"And there's gonna be
some very interesting facts
1936
01:24:40,900 --> 01:24:42,400
"that are gonna come out."
1937
01:24:42,433 --> 01:24:45,367
And I kind of had a feeling.
I knew where he was heading,
1938
01:24:45,400 --> 01:24:46,700
where he was going
with this.
1939
01:24:47,433 --> 01:24:48,700
And I let him go
1940
01:24:48,733 --> 01:24:52,767
and he starts saying,
"I did it."
1941
01:24:52,800 --> 01:24:55,900
And I didn't really
have to say,
"What did you do, Rockets?"
1942
01:24:55,933 --> 01:24:59,667
He was talking about,
you know, the book
1943
01:24:59,700 --> 01:25:02,867
and he was gonna
let people know
that he was the man.
1944
01:25:02,900 --> 01:25:05,533
There were rumors
that it was Rockets Redglare.
1945
01:25:05,567 --> 01:25:08,567
But as I said, he was the first
one insisting it wasn't Sid.
1946
01:25:08,600 --> 01:25:10,600
And I don't think someone
who committed a murder
1947
01:25:10,633 --> 01:25:13,300
would look to clear Sid.
1948
01:25:13,333 --> 01:25:15,300
Um, also he was a meal...
1949
01:25:15,333 --> 01:25:17,300
Sid was Rocket's
meal ticket at the time.
1950
01:25:17,333 --> 01:25:19,733
And I don't think
he would jeopardize,
1951
01:25:19,767 --> 01:25:23,333
and he also like the notoriety
of hanging out with Sid.
1952
01:25:23,367 --> 01:25:26,767
So, he definitely...
When he knew
the spotlight was on him,
1953
01:25:26,800 --> 01:25:29,767
he would, uh...
He would spin a tale or two.
1954
01:25:31,533 --> 01:25:33,333
I'm going, "Hello,
I'm Kathleen Wirt.
1955
01:25:33,367 --> 01:25:34,700
"I'm making a movie
about Sid Vicious.
1956
01:25:34,733 --> 01:25:36,367
"I'm proving
he didn't kill Nancy."
1957
01:25:36,400 --> 01:25:38,633
"Hello, I'm Kathleen Wirt.
I'm making a movie..."
You know.
1958
01:25:38,667 --> 01:25:42,600
And finally, I just said this
offhand to this one girl.
1959
01:25:42,633 --> 01:25:44,733
And she goes, "Oh, my God.
I know he didn't."
1960
01:25:44,767 --> 01:25:46,700
She goes, "That Michael guy
was crazy."
1961
01:25:46,733 --> 01:25:48,633
We're having a meal
before the gig.
1962
01:25:48,667 --> 01:25:51,633
And this kid
was sitting with Nancy,
1963
01:25:51,667 --> 01:25:52,900
blond hair kid.
1964
01:25:52,933 --> 01:25:54,933
And I said,
1965
01:25:54,967 --> 01:25:57,500
"Your boyfriend lived
at the Chelsea in 1978?"
1966
01:25:57,533 --> 01:25:59,700
She said, "Yeah."
And I said, "Was he a junkie?"
1967
01:25:59,733 --> 01:26:01,533
And she goes, "Oh, yeah."
1968
01:26:01,567 --> 01:26:03,667
And I said to Sid, you know,
1969
01:26:04,767 --> 01:26:05,767
"Who is that?"
1970
01:26:07,333 --> 01:26:09,733
And he says,
"Oh, that's Michael.
1971
01:26:09,767 --> 01:26:11,433
"Nancy really likes him."
1972
01:26:11,467 --> 01:26:13,333
She said that he lived
on the sixth floor.
1973
01:26:13,367 --> 01:26:16,567
And that there was a group
of actors that lived up there
1974
01:26:16,600 --> 01:26:18,933
that partied sometimes
with Sid and Nancy.
1975
01:26:18,967 --> 01:26:21,133
Would go down
to this first floor,
1976
01:26:21,167 --> 01:26:23,633
and that he was a part
of this group of people.
1977
01:26:39,433 --> 01:26:41,700
You're kind a young,
you know, maybe cute.
1978
01:26:41,733 --> 01:26:42,933
Maybe Nancy was cute...
I don't know.
1979
01:26:42,967 --> 01:26:44,700
I don't know what kind
of relationship they had.
1980
01:26:44,733 --> 01:26:46,333
Sid didn't really
seem to mind at all.
1981
01:26:46,367 --> 01:26:47,733
So, I was like, "Okay."
1982
01:26:47,767 --> 01:26:49,733
And apparently
he was there the night
1983
01:26:49,767 --> 01:26:51,433
that she was murdered.
1984
01:26:51,467 --> 01:26:52,867
NED: [SPEAKING]
1985
01:27:23,467 --> 01:27:25,733
This kid, um...
1986
01:27:25,767 --> 01:27:28,633
Definitely that the police
wanted to find this guy,
1987
01:27:28,667 --> 01:27:30,400
very anxious to find this guy.
1988
01:27:30,433 --> 01:27:32,633
I felt that they thought,
they knew
1989
01:27:32,667 --> 01:27:34,167
that this is the guy
that did it.
1990
01:27:34,200 --> 01:27:35,333
As far as I was concerned,
1991
01:27:35,367 --> 01:27:37,533
I couldn't tell them
a lot about this guy.
1992
01:27:37,567 --> 01:27:40,667
It was another guy
who just appeared
on the scene all of a sudden.
1993
01:27:40,700 --> 01:27:42,833
Michael had come upstairs,
1994
01:27:42,867 --> 01:27:45,567
after this had happened.
1995
01:27:45,600 --> 01:27:47,133
Sometime early in the morning.
1996
01:27:54,867 --> 01:27:56,900
WRIT: To everyone in the room,
1997
01:27:56,933 --> 01:27:59,367
when he said
that Sid had killed her,
1998
01:27:59,400 --> 01:28:00,900
that no one believed him.
1999
01:28:00,933 --> 01:28:05,733
And that he had shown up
with all of this cash,
2000
01:28:05,767 --> 01:28:08,567
tied up with Nancy's
purple hair tie.
2001
01:28:08,600 --> 01:28:13,633
And they all identified this guy
to the police supposedly.
2002
01:28:13,667 --> 01:28:17,333
Which is why I always thought
that if someone got hold
of the police file,
2003
01:28:17,367 --> 01:28:19,467
that his name
would be in there.
2004
01:28:19,500 --> 01:28:20,767
They closed the book,
2005
01:28:20,800 --> 01:28:22,400
I think 'cause nothing
ever came out about it.
2006
01:28:22,433 --> 01:28:25,367
Because nothing ever came out
about this guy Michael.
2007
01:28:25,400 --> 01:28:26,667
Who he was, and...
2008
01:28:26,700 --> 01:28:29,533
But I do have a drawing
I did of this guy.
2009
01:28:29,567 --> 01:28:30,567
I drew a picture of him
2010
01:28:31,633 --> 01:28:32,633
from memory.
2011
01:28:33,967 --> 01:28:36,667
'Cause I've never seen
a document.
2012
01:28:36,700 --> 01:28:39,267
But I did a sketch of what
I believe is this guy...
2013
01:28:39,300 --> 01:28:41,233
What I remember him
looking like.
2014
01:28:44,233 --> 01:28:46,100
This is the guy
that I think did it.
2015
01:28:47,367 --> 01:28:48,400
Michael.
2016
01:28:56,633 --> 01:28:58,633
NARRATOR: Every witness
who visited Sid and Nancy
2017
01:28:58,667 --> 01:29:00,233
on the night of Nancy's death,
2018
01:29:00,267 --> 01:29:03,900
claims that Sid was out cold
on Tuinal for seven hours.
2019
01:29:03,933 --> 01:29:07,233
This is backed up
by Bellevue Hospital records.
2020
01:29:07,267 --> 01:29:08,533
There are fingerprints
in the room
2021
01:29:08,567 --> 01:29:10,867
of six people
known to the NYPD.
2022
01:29:10,900 --> 01:29:13,367
Yet, there is no police record
of any of them
2023
01:29:13,400 --> 01:29:14,900
ever being questioned.
2024
01:29:14,933 --> 01:29:16,633
The murder weapon
is wiped clean
2025
01:29:16,667 --> 01:29:18,233
of blood and fingerprints.
2026
01:29:18,267 --> 01:29:19,600
How did this happen?
2027
01:29:19,633 --> 01:29:23,133
A large amount of money
simply disappears overnight.
2028
01:29:23,167 --> 01:29:24,567
How? Where to?
2029
01:29:25,200 --> 01:29:26,500
Who is Michael?
2030
01:29:26,533 --> 01:29:27,833
And why do
so many people believe
2031
01:29:27,867 --> 01:29:29,833
he was involved in the murder?
2032
01:29:29,867 --> 01:29:32,333
In more than 30 years
since Nancy's death,
2033
01:29:32,367 --> 01:29:33,433
none of these questions
2034
01:29:33,467 --> 01:29:35,267
have ever been
satisfactorily answered.
2035
01:29:42,200 --> 01:29:43,833
[STATIC]
2036
01:29:48,767 --> 01:29:50,533
[ SOUL SURVIVOR PLAYING]
2037
01:29:53,667 --> 01:29:55,267
* I'm a soul survivor
2038
01:29:55,300 --> 01:29:57,333
* And I live in a world of tack
2039
01:29:59,533 --> 01:30:02,200
* Whatever they say it just
Rolls right across my back
2040
01:30:02,233 --> 01:30:04,633
I actually saw The Great Rock
'N' Roll Swindle the other day.
2041
01:30:04,667 --> 01:30:05,900
It was funny watching Sid do
2042
01:30:05,933 --> 01:30:07,667
My Way and C'Mon Everybody.
2043
01:30:07,700 --> 01:30:11,867
You realize that he was
and could have been
a really great funk man.
2044
01:30:11,900 --> 01:30:14,200
But, hey, wasn't to be.
2045
01:30:14,233 --> 01:30:15,800
You know,
he had a fantastic look.
2046
01:30:15,833 --> 01:30:18,833
He had the best image
of all the punks at that time.
2047
01:30:18,867 --> 01:30:21,733
You know, he's still an icon.
2048
01:30:21,767 --> 01:30:23,700
JONES: The fact
that 30 years later,
2049
01:30:23,733 --> 01:30:25,933
I can still sort of still go
into a comic shop,
2050
01:30:25,967 --> 01:30:28,533
and still see him
and buy a doll.
2051
01:30:28,567 --> 01:30:31,467
Uh, it's just,
just is quite extraordinary.
2052
01:30:31,500 --> 01:30:32,800
KRIS: I recently
had a recklessly
2053
01:30:32,833 --> 01:30:34,533
extravagant time in New York.
2054
01:30:34,567 --> 01:30:36,933
And I went to CBGB's as well
2055
01:30:36,967 --> 01:30:39,500
and there was a Bob Gruen
exhibition there.
2056
01:30:39,533 --> 01:30:43,600
And Sid figures
prominently throughout it all
2057
01:30:43,633 --> 01:30:45,533
as being the face of punk.
2058
01:30:45,567 --> 01:30:48,167
If he didn't die,
I'd dare say he could
have been playing at Vegas,
2059
01:30:48,200 --> 01:30:50,167
you know, might be
2060
01:30:50,200 --> 01:30:52,800
running through
rock and roll numbers,
2061
01:30:52,833 --> 01:30:55,267
a few Sex Pistols numbers
and a couple of Sinatras.
2062
01:30:56,500 --> 01:30:57,867
It's always the same,
isn't it?
2063
01:30:57,900 --> 01:31:00,533
If you die that young,
that tragically
2064
01:31:00,567 --> 01:31:03,167
in such a sensational
spotlight like that,
2065
01:31:03,200 --> 01:31:06,467
um, you're almost
sort of like in amber.
2066
01:31:06,500 --> 01:31:08,400
It's happened to so many people.
2067
01:31:08,433 --> 01:31:11,467
You can see it all from
James Dean, Marilyn Monroe.
2068
01:31:11,500 --> 01:31:13,133
I've never met
anybody like him.
2069
01:31:13,167 --> 01:31:16,433
I probably never will meet
anyone like him again.
2070
01:31:17,900 --> 01:31:19,667
One unique character.
2071
01:31:19,700 --> 01:31:21,300
[ SOUL SURVIVOR PLAYING]
2072
01:31:21,333 --> 01:31:24,600
* And yesterday's flowers
Will be placed upon your head
2073
01:31:26,733 --> 01:31:29,333
* So come on, come on
Come on, come on
2074
01:31:29,367 --> 01:31:32,133
* Let's roll
Through rings of fire
2075
01:31:32,167 --> 01:31:34,733
* Come on, come on
Come on, come on
2076
01:31:34,767 --> 01:31:37,567
* Let's light
This flames' desire
2077
01:31:37,600 --> 01:31:39,933
* So come on, come on
Come on, come on
2078
01:31:39,967 --> 01:31:42,767
* Let's light this flaming fire
2079
01:31:42,800 --> 01:31:45,300
* So come on, come on
Come on, come on
2080
01:31:46,267 --> 01:31:48,533
* Soul survivor
2081
01:31:48,567 --> 01:31:49,867
* Soul survivor
2082
01:31:49,900 --> 01:31:50,900
* Soul survivor
163451
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