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♪
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♪
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{\an1}JANE WILLENBRING:
The word that people often use
is that I was "triggered."
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{\an7}I had a three-year-old daughter,
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{\an7}and she came to the lab
with me one weekend.
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{\an1}I had told her that I was a
scientist before,
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{\an1}and I don't think it
had really clicked in her mind
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{\an1}that I was actually a scientist.
(laughs)
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And so she came
to the lab with me,
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00:01:09,905 --> 00:01:12,905
{\an1}and I had my booties,
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{\an1}and I was wearing a Tyvek suit,
gloves, and goggles...
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The whole getup.
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{\an1}And she looked at me,
and she was just, like,
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{\an1}"You really are a scientist,
Mommy."
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{\an1}And then she said, "I want to be
a scientist just like you."
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And that was the
horrible, like...
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(laughs)
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{\an1}...sort of lose-it triggering
moment that I have ever had.
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And, um...
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I actually...
(clears throat)
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{\an1}...started crying
at the time.
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{\an1}And I, you know, she's three,
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{\an1}so she doesn't understand
why I'm crying.
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{\an1}And so I told her that they
were happy tears.
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{\an1}But they weren't just
happy tears.
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{\an1}I was thinking about someone
treating her like trash
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{\an1}in 20 years, like I had
been treated like trash.
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{\an1}The one thing that I could do to
help her the most
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{\an1}is to try and make the whole
enterprise
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{\an1}something that is welcoming
to women,
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{\an1}and that was something
that I hadn't done.
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♪
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WOMAN:
We all have images in our head.
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{\an1}We have images of
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{\an1}what a woman is like,
what a man is like.
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{\an1}When you ask somebody,
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{\an1}"Draw a picture of a scientist,"
it used to be
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all men.
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♪
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WOMAN:
We were just trying to be
scientists.
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{\an1}We certainly didn't want
to be seen
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00:03:01,538 --> 00:03:03,538
{\an1}as troublemakers or activists.
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{\an8}♪
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{\an8}WOMAN:
The big picture is that women
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{\an7}are extraordinarily
underrepresented in science.
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WOMAN:
The message that's given
is that
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{\an1}you somehow don't belong here.
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WOMAN:
There's a playbook,
and it was written by men.
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{\an1}And the men pick up on it.
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{\an1}They know what the plays are,
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{\an1}and I always felt I didn't have
the playbook.
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(chuckles):
You know, I'm just sort of
feeling my way
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{\an1}through this, this game.
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♪
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{\an1}(car horns, distant traffic)
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{\an8}NANCY HOPKINS:
There's your standard
striped version.
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00:04:02,571 --> 00:04:06,438
Beautiful,
beautiful little fish.
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00:04:06,471 --> 00:04:12,038
And if you see,
the males are very slender,
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00:04:12,071 --> 00:04:17,038
and the females
have the large belly.
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{\an1}Generally a good sign
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{\an1}they're going to lay eggs.
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♪
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{\an1}I'm Nancy Hopkins, and I was
professor of biology
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{\an7}at M.I.T. for 40 years,
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{\an7}and I retired three years ago.
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{\an8}(chuckles):
Ah-hah, this is a picture
of Greta.
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00:04:45,205 --> 00:04:47,405
{\an7}So this was, this was the first
experiment we did,
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{\an7}really, in zebra fish.
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00:04:50,371 --> 00:04:54,838
{\an7}We were still just learning
the system.
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00:04:54,871 --> 00:04:56,547
At the time,
I was taking care of the fish,
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00:04:56,571 --> 00:04:57,814
{\an1}so I was in the fish room,
like...
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{\an1}I was literally in the lab
365 days of the year.
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00:05:00,538 --> 00:05:04,405
{\an7}This is actually looking down
on a fish embryo.
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00:05:04,438 --> 00:05:07,971
{\an7}And about this time,
there's about a thousand cells.
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00:05:08,005 --> 00:05:09,938
{\an7}I think about a thousand.
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00:05:09,971 --> 00:05:12,338
{\an7}And four of those thousand cells
are going to go
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{\an7}and become the sperm or the eggs
of that fish,
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00:05:14,638 --> 00:05:17,771
{\an7}and those are the four cells.
(chuckles)
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00:05:17,805 --> 00:05:19,538
{\an7}And then they begin to divide.
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00:05:19,571 --> 00:05:24,405
{\an7}When I was about ten,
my mother got cancer.
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00:05:24,438 --> 00:05:27,338
{\an7}In that generation, the word
"cancer" was so terrifying,
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00:05:27,371 --> 00:05:29,905
{\an7}you didn't say the word.
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00:05:29,938 --> 00:05:31,771
{\an7}And so she was terrified,
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00:05:31,805 --> 00:05:34,971
{\an7}and that certainly made a big
impression on me,
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00:05:35,005 --> 00:05:36,581
{\an7}and I'm sure that's partly why
I was interested
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00:05:36,605 --> 00:05:40,671
{\an7}in cancer research later on.
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00:05:42,205 --> 00:05:47,238
{\an7}I went to a small, private
girls' school in Manhattan.
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00:05:47,271 --> 00:05:49,505
{\an7}They didn't teach a lot of math
and science
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00:05:49,538 --> 00:05:51,105
{\an7}to girls in my generation,
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00:05:51,138 --> 00:05:53,471
{\an1}because people thought girls
didn't like
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00:05:53,505 --> 00:05:55,338
{\an1}or need much math or science,
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00:05:55,371 --> 00:05:57,381
{\an1}but I took everything they
offered and loved all of it.
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00:05:57,405 --> 00:05:59,505
♪
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00:05:59,538 --> 00:06:02,038
{\an1}I went to Radcliffe.
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00:06:02,071 --> 00:06:04,838
{\an1}I was 16, I guess,
when I started.
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00:06:04,871 --> 00:06:06,871
{\an1}In the spring of junior year,
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00:06:06,905 --> 00:06:10,071
{\an1}I signed up for this course
called Bio 2.
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00:06:10,105 --> 00:06:13,771
{\an1}Jim Watson came in, and one hour
later,
99
00:06:13,805 --> 00:06:15,371
{\an1}I was a different person.
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00:06:15,405 --> 00:06:19,371
{\an1}He and Francis Crick had won
a Nobel Prize
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00:06:19,405 --> 00:06:21,705
{\an1}for discovering the structure
of DNA.
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00:06:21,738 --> 00:06:25,405
♪
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This genetics,
this molecular biology,
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{\an1}it was the answer to all
of the questions
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00:06:31,905 --> 00:06:35,238
{\an1}I'd ever had about everything;
this is what life is,
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{\an1}this is how it works.
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00:06:36,671 --> 00:06:38,038
{\an1}It's going to explain
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00:06:38,071 --> 00:06:40,705
{\an1}everything that living things do
and can do.
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00:06:42,871 --> 00:06:47,838
{\an1}I couldn't imagine going on
without being near this science.
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00:06:47,871 --> 00:06:49,838
{\an1}I just had to be near this.
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00:06:51,305 --> 00:06:54,038
{\an1}I started working in
Jim Watson's lab
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00:06:54,071 --> 00:06:56,205
{\an1}as an undergraduate.
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00:06:56,238 --> 00:06:58,771
{\an1}It was absolutely thrilling, and
I thought, "Well, I'm happy."
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00:06:58,805 --> 00:07:01,305
♪
115
00:07:01,338 --> 00:07:05,038
{\an1}However, there was this odd,
funny thing that happened.
116
00:07:05,071 --> 00:07:07,071
{\an1}Francis Crick was coming
to visit the lab,
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00:07:07,105 --> 00:07:08,438
{\an1}and he was going to give a talk.
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00:07:08,471 --> 00:07:12,571
{\an1}And this was enormously
exciting, because, of course,
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00:07:12,605 --> 00:07:14,271
{\an1}Jim just thought Francis
was a genius.
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00:07:14,305 --> 00:07:15,271
{\an1}I thought Jim was a genius.
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00:07:15,305 --> 00:07:16,671
{\an1}Jim thought Francis was a
genius...
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00:07:16,705 --> 00:07:18,671
{\an1}wow, how smart could this guy
be?
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00:07:18,705 --> 00:07:21,905
{\an1}So I was very excited Francis
was coming,
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00:07:21,938 --> 00:07:24,938
{\an1}and I was sitting at my desk
in this little lab,
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00:07:24,971 --> 00:07:27,505
{\an1}which was adjacent to
Jim's office.
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00:07:27,538 --> 00:07:31,571
{\an1}And the door flies open.
127
00:07:31,605 --> 00:07:33,714
{\an1}I was in the room alone, and
there's standing Francis Crick.
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00:07:33,738 --> 00:07:36,571
{\an1}He comes flying across the room,
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00:07:36,605 --> 00:07:39,705
{\an1}puts his hands on my chest
and breasts,
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00:07:39,738 --> 00:07:41,638
and says,
"What are you working on?"
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00:07:41,671 --> 00:07:42,714
{\an1}You know, looks at my notebook
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and says,
"What are you working on?"
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00:07:44,605 --> 00:07:46,838
{\an1}And I was so startled,
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00:07:46,871 --> 00:07:48,438
{\an1}I didn't quite know
what to say or do.
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00:07:48,471 --> 00:07:53,138
{\an1}So I sort of straightened up and
said, "Oh, well, here,
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00:07:53,171 --> 00:07:55,271
{\an1}"let me show you this,
I'm doing this experiment.
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00:07:55,305 --> 00:07:58,171
Somehow, this,
I'm trying to do this."
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00:07:58,205 --> 00:08:00,538
{\an1}And at the time, the word
"sexual harassment"
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00:08:00,571 --> 00:08:04,505
{\an1}didn't exist... it
wouldn't have crossed my mind.
140
00:08:04,538 --> 00:08:06,971
{\an1}So I just didn't want to make
a fuss.
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00:08:07,005 --> 00:08:08,214
{\an1}I didn't want Francis to be
embarrassed.
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00:08:08,238 --> 00:08:11,538
{\an1}I didn't want Jim to be
embarrassed.
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00:08:11,571 --> 00:08:14,605
{\an1}I just tried to pretend nothing
had happened.
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00:08:20,838 --> 00:08:25,871
{\an1}(seagulls squawking)
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(keys jingle)
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00:08:34,538 --> 00:08:36,705
{\an1}Not losing the keys to the car
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{\an1}is the most important part
of field work.
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(laughs)
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And hiking.
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{\an1}This is an area of coastline in
California
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{\an1}that is really being impacted
by cliff retreat.
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{\an1}We're really interested in
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00:09:02,638 --> 00:09:05,205
{\an1}figuring out how fast
154
00:09:05,238 --> 00:09:07,405
{\an1}sea level rise is going
to impact
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00:09:07,438 --> 00:09:09,971
{\an1}the coastal zones.
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00:09:10,005 --> 00:09:12,471
♪
157
00:09:12,505 --> 00:09:13,971
{\an1}I'm Jane Willenbring.
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00:09:14,005 --> 00:09:17,005
{\an7}I'm an associate professor
at Scripps Institution
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00:09:17,038 --> 00:09:19,438
{\an8}of Oceanography,
which is part of U.C. San Diego.
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00:09:19,471 --> 00:09:21,938
♪
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00:09:21,971 --> 00:09:24,281
{\an1}One of the things that I think
is great about being someone
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00:09:24,305 --> 00:09:28,971
{\an1}who studies how landscapes
change over time
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00:09:29,005 --> 00:09:31,138
{\an1}is that it is so incredibly
important
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{\an1}for maintaining our way of life,
basically.
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00:09:34,605 --> 00:09:37,205
♪
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00:09:37,238 --> 00:09:41,005
{\an1}One of the ways that we're
trying to create resilience
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00:09:41,038 --> 00:09:45,471
{\an1}and adaptability to climate
change impact
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{\an1}is through figuring out what
will happen to
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coastal areas.
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00:09:52,805 --> 00:09:54,171
{\an1}One of the things that
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{\an1}drew me to Earth science
172
00:09:56,638 --> 00:09:59,005
{\an1}when I was starting my degree
was, you get to use
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{\an1}all of the different kinds
of science
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00:10:00,905 --> 00:10:06,005
{\an1}to really understand how we are
impacting the Earth,
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00:10:06,038 --> 00:10:07,605
{\an1}and people were arguing
at the time
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00:10:07,638 --> 00:10:11,705
{\an1}about whether there was going to
be this massive deglaciation
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00:10:11,738 --> 00:10:15,805
{\an1}of East Antarctica
if we warmed the Earth
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{\an1}just a couple of degrees.
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00:10:18,038 --> 00:10:22,771
{\an1}Field work in Antarctica seemed
like a perfect, you know,
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00:10:22,805 --> 00:10:25,538
{\an1}trajectory for my science life.
181
00:10:36,305 --> 00:10:37,838
{\an1}I decided to go to
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{\an1}Boston University to get
a master's degree.
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00:10:41,871 --> 00:10:44,938
{\an1}I started the program in 1999.
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00:10:44,971 --> 00:10:46,538
{\an1}I was going to work with
Dave Marchant,
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00:10:46,571 --> 00:10:52,971
{\an7}looking at the glacial history
of a part of East Antarctica.
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00:10:53,005 --> 00:10:55,671
{\an7}He was a really important person
in the field.
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00:10:55,705 --> 00:10:59,571
{\an1}He even had a glacier named
after him.
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00:10:59,605 --> 00:11:03,105
{\an1}And I was incredibly thrilled
to get the opportunity to go.
189
00:11:03,138 --> 00:11:06,105
{\an1}It was like a dream come true,
actually.
190
00:11:09,271 --> 00:11:13,038
{\an1}So we were going to head out
in the field in early December.
191
00:11:13,071 --> 00:11:17,005
{\an1}It actually takes a long time
to even get there.
192
00:11:17,038 --> 00:11:20,905
{\an1}We went from Boston to
New Zealand,
193
00:11:20,938 --> 00:11:23,571
{\an1}New Zealand to McMurdo,
and then finally,
194
00:11:23,605 --> 00:11:27,271
{\an1}we go out with all of our tents
via helicopter
195
00:11:27,305 --> 00:11:30,538
into the field, and then we were
196
00:11:30,571 --> 00:11:33,771
just there.
197
00:11:33,805 --> 00:11:37,471
{\an1}It's such an incredibly
blue sky...
198
00:11:37,505 --> 00:11:39,305
{\an1}the bluest sky, maybe,
199
00:11:39,338 --> 00:11:41,838
{\an1}that I've ever seen in my life.
200
00:11:41,871 --> 00:11:43,071
{\an1}You just have rock
201
00:11:43,105 --> 00:11:47,305
{\an1}and mountains and ice as far
as you can see.
202
00:11:49,771 --> 00:11:51,271
{\an1}It is like nowhere else.
203
00:11:51,305 --> 00:11:55,205
{\an1}There were four people
in the group.
204
00:11:55,238 --> 00:11:58,605
{\an1}So there was Dave Marchant,
his brother, and then also
205
00:11:58,638 --> 00:12:01,405
{\an1}a master's student from the
University of Maine,
206
00:12:01,438 --> 00:12:03,938
Adam Lewis.
207
00:12:03,971 --> 00:12:07,271
{\an1}The order of things,
in, in some cases,
208
00:12:07,305 --> 00:12:09,538
{\an1}is quite jumbled in my mind.
209
00:12:11,305 --> 00:12:15,905
{\an1}I do know that there was a
definite break between
210
00:12:15,938 --> 00:12:17,605
{\an1}when we were in, even McMurdo,
211
00:12:17,638 --> 00:12:19,805
{\an1}when we were surrounded by
other scientists
212
00:12:19,838 --> 00:12:23,805
{\an1}and program officers from the
National Science Foundation.
213
00:12:23,838 --> 00:12:27,205
{\an1}And it wasn't until we got
to the field
214
00:12:27,238 --> 00:12:29,538
that sort of
the filters were off.
215
00:12:29,571 --> 00:12:32,271
There was some
"Saturday Night Live" skit.
216
00:12:32,305 --> 00:12:34,905
{\an1}Jane, you ignorant slut.
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00:12:34,938 --> 00:12:37,238
(laughter)
218
00:12:37,271 --> 00:12:41,471
WILLENBRING:
Dave would start off from that
sort of pop-culture reference
219
00:12:41,505 --> 00:12:45,738
{\an1}to just calling me a slut, and
then "slut" went to "whore,"
220
00:12:45,771 --> 00:12:47,071
{\an1}and then "whore" went to
(bleep).
221
00:12:47,105 --> 00:12:50,138
♪
222
00:12:50,171 --> 00:12:53,638
{\an1}We'd have to deal with all of
these stories
223
00:12:53,671 --> 00:12:55,805
{\an1}about how slutty I was,
224
00:12:55,838 --> 00:12:58,771
{\an1}and how I'd be good for
this person,
225
00:12:58,805 --> 00:13:02,405
{\an1}who is a helicopter pilot, or
this person, who is his brother.
226
00:13:02,438 --> 00:13:06,371
{\an1}And I just wanted to talk
about science.
227
00:13:06,405 --> 00:13:10,405
♪
228
00:13:10,438 --> 00:13:13,405
At one point,
he decided to just,
229
00:13:13,438 --> 00:13:16,638
{\an1}every time that I had to go
to the bathroom,
230
00:13:16,671 --> 00:13:20,005
{\an1}just throw rocks at me.
231
00:13:20,038 --> 00:13:23,571
{\an1}Little tiny pebbles most
of the time.
232
00:13:23,605 --> 00:13:26,771
{\an1}So there are no trees to hide
behind,
233
00:13:26,805 --> 00:13:30,138
{\an1}no bushes or anything like that.
234
00:13:30,171 --> 00:13:32,605
{\an1}It was so embarrassing and
235
00:13:32,638 --> 00:13:38,438
{\an1}demeaning, and so I stopped...
236
00:13:38,471 --> 00:13:42,438
{\an1}I stopped drinking water during
the day
237
00:13:42,471 --> 00:13:45,438
{\an1}so that I wouldn't have to go
to the bathroom as much,
238
00:13:45,471 --> 00:13:50,071
{\an1}and I ended up getting
a bladder infection.
239
00:13:50,105 --> 00:13:53,471
{\an1}And eventually, there was blood
in my urine,
240
00:13:53,505 --> 00:13:58,438
{\an1}and I've actually had, had
sort of bladder problems
241
00:13:58,471 --> 00:14:02,071
{\an1}ever since that time.
242
00:14:02,105 --> 00:14:04,571
{\an8}(wind howling)
243
00:14:04,605 --> 00:14:08,905
{\an7}We were looking for ash inside
of these belts of sediment
244
00:14:08,938 --> 00:14:14,605
{\an7}and, and boulders that form on
the margins of glaciers.
245
00:14:14,638 --> 00:14:18,071
{\an1}These ashes can be dated,
and so they're great to find.
246
00:14:18,105 --> 00:14:23,771
{\an1}So he had a little bit of ash
on this little metal scoop.
247
00:14:23,805 --> 00:14:25,038
{\an1}He motioned to lean in.
248
00:14:25,071 --> 00:14:29,605
{\an1}And so I looked, got down really
close to be able to see
249
00:14:29,638 --> 00:14:33,238
{\an1}the individual crystals
in the ash.
250
00:14:33,271 --> 00:14:35,971
{\an1}And at that point,
251
00:14:36,005 --> 00:14:40,738
{\an1}he just breathed onto the spoon
really quickly,
252
00:14:40,771 --> 00:14:45,738
{\an1}and the glass shards went
into my eyes.
253
00:14:45,771 --> 00:14:49,071
{\an1}While I was doubled over in
pain,
254
00:14:49,105 --> 00:14:51,505
{\an1}Dave looked at everybody and
sort of shrugged and said,
255
00:14:51,538 --> 00:14:54,171
{\an1}"Oops, that went a little
too far."
256
00:14:56,405 --> 00:15:01,205
{\an7}I remember I was trying to get
up a really steep slope.
257
00:15:01,238 --> 00:15:04,971
{\an7}It was covered with moveable
debris.
258
00:15:05,005 --> 00:15:08,471
{\an7}So every time I would try to
take a couple of steps up,
259
00:15:08,505 --> 00:15:12,738
{\an7}I would just naturally slide
down one step worth.
260
00:15:12,771 --> 00:15:14,638
{\an7}So it was incredibly frustrating
261
00:15:14,671 --> 00:15:17,605
{\an7}to go up and down this thing.
262
00:15:17,638 --> 00:15:20,971
{\an7}Dave was at the top
at one point,
263
00:15:21,005 --> 00:15:22,838
{\an7}and I had just gotten about
264
00:15:22,871 --> 00:15:25,238
{\an7}three-quarters of the way
up the hill,
265
00:15:25,271 --> 00:15:30,038
and he grabbed
the back of my backpack
266
00:15:30,071 --> 00:15:32,938
{\an1}and just pushed me down
the hill.
267
00:15:34,638 --> 00:15:38,405
{\an1}I remember just sort of weeping
268
00:15:38,438 --> 00:15:41,871
{\an1}at the bottom of this hill.
269
00:15:41,905 --> 00:15:44,271
{\an1}And I just decided at that
moment
270
00:15:44,305 --> 00:15:49,805
{\an1}to just sort of let everything
kind of wash over me
271
00:15:49,838 --> 00:15:56,705
{\an1}and that I was just going
to decide to do something later.
272
00:15:56,738 --> 00:16:03,071
♪
273
00:16:03,105 --> 00:16:06,071
{\an1}I didn't know how long that
later would be,
274
00:16:06,105 --> 00:16:10,905
{\an1}because my future was still
in his hands.
275
00:16:10,938 --> 00:16:15,671
{\an1}After we got back and then the
year after.
276
00:16:15,705 --> 00:16:19,005
{\an1}And so it just became sort of
this, like, later, like,
277
00:16:19,038 --> 00:16:21,171
{\an1}this point on the horizon.
278
00:16:21,205 --> 00:16:26,205
♪
279
00:16:32,505 --> 00:16:36,771
{\an1}(indistinct chatter)
280
00:16:41,505 --> 00:16:44,138
MAN:
I'd like to welcome all of you
to this convocation
281
00:16:44,171 --> 00:16:47,305
{\an1}on a most important topic.
282
00:16:47,338 --> 00:16:50,205
{\an7}Together, we can do better,
certainly,
283
00:16:50,238 --> 00:16:52,805
{\an7}addressing sexual harassment.
284
00:16:59,705 --> 00:17:01,314
{\an8}PAULA JOHNSON:
The best estimates are, about
285
00:17:01,338 --> 00:17:06,071
{\an7}50% of women faculty and staff
286
00:17:06,105 --> 00:17:08,705
{\an1}experience sexual harassment,
287
00:17:08,738 --> 00:17:13,638
{\an1}and those numbers have
not really shifted over time.
288
00:17:13,671 --> 00:17:15,338
{\an1}If you think about science,
289
00:17:15,371 --> 00:17:19,305
{\an1}right now, we have a system that
is built on dependence,
290
00:17:19,338 --> 00:17:22,271
{\an7}really singular dependence,
of trainees,
291
00:17:22,305 --> 00:17:24,705
{\an7}whether they are medical
students,
292
00:17:24,738 --> 00:17:28,471
{\an7}whether they are undergraduates,
or if they're graduate students,
293
00:17:28,505 --> 00:17:31,705
{\an1}on faculty for their funding,
for their futures.
294
00:17:31,738 --> 00:17:34,438
{\an1}And that really sets up
a dynamic
295
00:17:34,471 --> 00:17:37,505
{\an7}that is highly problematic.
296
00:17:37,538 --> 00:17:39,571
{\an7}It really creates an environment
297
00:17:39,605 --> 00:17:42,805
{\an7}in which harassment can occur.
298
00:17:42,838 --> 00:17:45,738
{\an7}Generally speaking, sexual forms
of sexual harassment...
299
00:17:45,771 --> 00:17:48,505
{\an8}like come-ons,
unwanted sexual advances...
300
00:17:48,538 --> 00:17:51,171
{\an7}those are actually the rarest
forms of sexual harassment.
301
00:17:51,205 --> 00:17:52,805
{\an1}They actually don't happen
very much.
302
00:17:52,838 --> 00:17:55,038
{\an1}Mostly you see put-downs.
303
00:17:56,971 --> 00:18:01,071
{\an8}JOHNSON:
We use the metaphor of an
iceberg to really get across
304
00:18:01,105 --> 00:18:06,005
{\an1}the various forms of
sexual harassment.
305
00:18:06,038 --> 00:18:08,271
{\an1}What's gotten most of the
attention
306
00:18:08,305 --> 00:18:12,638
{\an1}is unwanted sexual attention,
coercion.
307
00:18:12,671 --> 00:18:14,638
{\an1}Those are in the public eye,
308
00:18:14,671 --> 00:18:16,171
{\an1}and I think everyone would agree
309
00:18:16,205 --> 00:18:18,671
{\an1}we absolutely need
to address those.
310
00:18:18,705 --> 00:18:22,105
CLANCY:
And then you have all the stuff
that's underneath.
311
00:18:22,138 --> 00:18:25,105
{\an1}Those are actually more than 90%
of the sexual harassment.
312
00:18:25,138 --> 00:18:27,305
You know, the subtle exclusions,
313
00:18:27,338 --> 00:18:28,738
{\an1}being left off an email,
314
00:18:28,771 --> 00:18:30,081
{\an1}not being invited to a
collaboration
315
00:18:30,105 --> 00:18:32,138
{\an1}where you're the clear expert.
316
00:18:32,171 --> 00:18:34,771
{\an1}Just these little moments that
make a woman feel
317
00:18:34,805 --> 00:18:38,438
{\an1}like she doesn't belong, that's
a really common experience.
318
00:18:40,505 --> 00:18:44,205
{\an8}JOHNSON:
We found that consistent
gender harassment
319
00:18:44,238 --> 00:18:49,205
{\an1}actually has the same impact
as a single episode
320
00:18:49,238 --> 00:18:54,405
{\an1}of unwanted sexual attention
or coercion.
321
00:18:54,438 --> 00:18:58,571
{\an1}So it is not something
to be ignored.
322
00:19:07,871 --> 00:19:11,705
(birds chirping)
323
00:19:17,805 --> 00:19:19,314
{\an8}RAYCHELLE BURKS:
This is our shared lab facility.
324
00:19:19,338 --> 00:19:22,505
{\an1}So all of the chemistry
professors
325
00:19:22,538 --> 00:19:25,971
have lab space,
some corner of it, here.
326
00:19:26,005 --> 00:19:32,805
♪
327
00:19:32,838 --> 00:19:34,805
{\an1}I'm Raychelle Burks.
328
00:19:34,838 --> 00:19:37,238
{\an7}I am an assistant professor
of chemistry.
329
00:19:37,271 --> 00:19:40,938
{\an1}So we make sensor arrays.
330
00:19:40,971 --> 00:19:44,938
{\an1}When they're exposed
to different environments,
331
00:19:44,971 --> 00:19:48,238
{\an1}they have chemical reactions
that they'll undergo.
332
00:19:48,271 --> 00:19:50,738
{\an1}So it might be something
333
00:19:50,771 --> 00:19:53,538
{\an1}like phenolphthalein,
334
00:19:53,571 --> 00:19:55,014
{\an1}which, anyone who's watched,
like, the crime shows,
335
00:19:55,038 --> 00:19:56,747
and it's, like,
"We found this," you know...
336
00:19:56,771 --> 00:19:59,338
{\an1}They swab something, and then
it's, like, drop, drop,
337
00:19:59,371 --> 00:20:02,305
{\an1}another bottle, drop, and
they're, like, "It's blood."
338
00:20:02,338 --> 00:20:05,738
{\an1}And it's gone from being
colorless to being bright pink.
339
00:20:05,771 --> 00:20:08,338
{\an1}The things I'm trying to find
are usually
340
00:20:08,371 --> 00:20:10,038
{\an1}the nefarious things.
341
00:20:10,071 --> 00:20:12,871
{\an1}So biological and chemical
weapons, explosives.
342
00:20:12,905 --> 00:20:16,471
{\an1}I design systems to find those.
343
00:20:16,505 --> 00:20:18,071
{\an1}The types of tests I'm building
344
00:20:18,105 --> 00:20:22,338
{\an1}are for natural disaster/
war zone situations,
345
00:20:22,371 --> 00:20:25,871
{\an1}where you're trying to do
a quick screen.
346
00:20:25,905 --> 00:20:28,205
{\an1}And it could be Hurricane Maria
or Hurricane Harvey.
347
00:20:28,238 --> 00:20:29,971
{\an1}Especially Flint.
348
00:20:30,005 --> 00:20:32,838
NEWS ANCHOR:
Flint residents filed a federal
lawsuit accusing
349
00:20:32,871 --> 00:20:35,938
{\an1}the city and state of
endangering their health
350
00:20:35,971 --> 00:20:37,381
{\an1}by exposing them to dangerous
lead levels
351
00:20:37,405 --> 00:20:39,271
{\an1}in their town water...
352
00:20:39,305 --> 00:20:42,338
NEWS ANCHOR:
Flood waters in New Orleans are
full of sewage and bacteria
353
00:20:42,371 --> 00:20:44,405
{\an1}that can make people sick.
354
00:20:44,438 --> 00:20:47,471
{\an1}Federal officials joined local
agencies in urging...
355
00:20:47,505 --> 00:20:49,305
{\an1}You know, from a social justice
angle,
356
00:20:49,338 --> 00:20:52,171
{\an1}people still need some kind of
testing metric
357
00:20:52,205 --> 00:20:53,405
{\an1}and to get an answer,
358
00:20:53,438 --> 00:20:55,938
{\an1}especially in that kind of
environment.
359
00:20:55,971 --> 00:20:58,371
{\an1}You know, is there some type
of test
360
00:20:58,405 --> 00:21:02,438
{\an1}where you're not pricing
the user out of it?
361
00:21:04,305 --> 00:21:05,905
{\an1}That's what my group does.
362
00:21:05,938 --> 00:21:09,438
{\an1}By using all of this information
and statistics,
363
00:21:09,471 --> 00:21:10,638
{\an1}get to the point where
364
00:21:10,671 --> 00:21:13,505
{\an1}the final product,
we hand it off to the user,
365
00:21:13,538 --> 00:21:17,571
{\an1}and what they get is
a simple-to-use test.
366
00:21:17,605 --> 00:21:19,347
{\an1}Like, kind of on the pregnancy
test, where it's, like,
367
00:21:19,371 --> 00:21:21,538
{\an1}"Okay, so double lines means...
368
00:21:21,571 --> 00:21:23,338
What again?
Single line means..."
369
00:21:23,371 --> 00:21:24,571
{\an1}You know, like...
(laughs)
370
00:21:24,605 --> 00:21:27,671
{\an1}But you have, like,
that little diagram.
371
00:21:29,905 --> 00:21:32,238
{\an1}I grew up in the L.A. area.
372
00:21:32,271 --> 00:21:35,405
{\an1}Very big high school, 3,000.
373
00:21:35,438 --> 00:21:38,805
{\an1}And the classes are packed.
374
00:21:38,838 --> 00:21:42,771
{\an1}I don't remember any teacher in
high school being, like,
375
00:21:42,805 --> 00:21:45,871
"You can do it,"
in the sciences in any way,
376
00:21:45,905 --> 00:21:49,005
{\an1}but I just kept showing up.
377
00:21:49,038 --> 00:21:51,905
{\an1}It's funny, a lot of the
scientists I think of
378
00:21:51,938 --> 00:21:54,471
{\an1}growing up are actually
fictional characters.
379
00:21:54,505 --> 00:21:58,238
{\an1}"STAR TREK" NARRATOR:
To boldly go where no man has
gone before.
380
00:21:58,271 --> 00:22:00,505
{\an1}Like, Uhura was a scientist.
381
00:22:00,538 --> 00:22:02,271
Progress report.
382
00:22:02,305 --> 00:22:05,738
{\an1}I'm connecting the bypass
circuit now, sir.
383
00:22:05,771 --> 00:22:07,181
BURKS:
And she was in charge of comms,
384
00:22:07,205 --> 00:22:09,471
{\an1}but really, she was a scientist.
385
00:22:11,605 --> 00:22:13,471
{\an1}Going through college, you know,
386
00:22:13,505 --> 00:22:17,038
{\an1}there were no Black women
chemistry professors
387
00:22:17,071 --> 00:22:18,571
that I had.
388
00:22:18,605 --> 00:22:20,271
{\an1}I heard that they existed,
though.
389
00:22:20,305 --> 00:22:22,471
(laughs):
But I never had any.
390
00:22:24,905 --> 00:22:27,705
{\an1}I went to get a PhD in chemistry
391
00:22:27,738 --> 00:22:29,805
so I would have
more employment options.
392
00:22:29,838 --> 00:22:34,471
{\an8}♪
393
00:22:41,005 --> 00:22:44,238
{\an1}There are lots of things I love
about the sciences
394
00:22:44,271 --> 00:22:47,105
{\an1}and I love about academia
and my job.
395
00:22:47,138 --> 00:22:50,438
{\an1}But then there's also some
real bull(bleep).
396
00:22:50,471 --> 00:22:52,738
♪
397
00:22:52,771 --> 00:22:54,305
In academia,
398
00:22:54,338 --> 00:22:56,671
{\an1}as women of color,
399
00:22:56,705 --> 00:22:58,838
{\an1}we're going to have different
types of abuse
400
00:22:58,871 --> 00:23:00,971
{\an1}from different people.
401
00:23:01,005 --> 00:23:03,205
{\an1}I remember when I was in my
office once,
402
00:23:03,238 --> 00:23:05,938
{\an1}sitting at my desk,
at my computer.
403
00:23:05,971 --> 00:23:08,405
{\an1}Like, I've got, you know,
papers spread out.
404
00:23:08,438 --> 00:23:11,238
{\an1}And someone comes into my
office, and for some reason,
405
00:23:11,271 --> 00:23:12,905
{\an1}assumes I'm the janitor.
406
00:23:17,105 --> 00:23:19,038
{\an1}I mean, I've been in meetings
407
00:23:19,071 --> 00:23:20,805
{\an1}where you've made a suggestion
408
00:23:20,838 --> 00:23:22,338
or said,
"Well, what about this?"
409
00:23:22,371 --> 00:23:24,871
And it was like
you'd never spoke at all.
410
00:23:24,905 --> 00:23:28,438
{\an1}But if a white guy says it,
you're, like...
411
00:23:28,471 --> 00:23:30,631
{\an1}And now it'll magically be
heard, everybody watch this.
412
00:23:35,138 --> 00:23:37,171
{\an1}Sometimes you get these critical
emails,
413
00:23:37,205 --> 00:23:38,981
{\an1}and criticism is something that,
as a scientist,
414
00:23:39,005 --> 00:23:40,605
{\an1}you have to get used to.
415
00:23:40,638 --> 00:23:42,838
{\an1}But I think it's,
is it appropriate?
416
00:23:42,871 --> 00:23:44,014
{\an1}There's been some cases where
I'm, like,
417
00:23:44,038 --> 00:23:46,505
{\an1}"Wow, this is wildly
inappropriate."
418
00:23:50,905 --> 00:23:52,371
{\an1}You don't get to just
419
00:23:52,405 --> 00:23:54,038
{\an1}say what you'd really want
to say.
420
00:23:54,071 --> 00:23:56,505
{\an1}Like, "How dare you?"
421
00:23:56,538 --> 00:23:58,005
{\an1}I'm going to be seen as, like,
422
00:23:58,038 --> 00:24:01,305
{\an1}the angry Black woman trope
anyway, but you have to, like,
423
00:24:01,338 --> 00:24:03,405
{\an1}"Okay, how do I minimize that?"
424
00:24:03,438 --> 00:24:06,238
{\an1}So you spend all this time
trying to craft a response
425
00:24:06,271 --> 00:24:09,005
{\an1}or an approach of how to, like,
deal with it.
426
00:24:09,038 --> 00:24:12,171
{\an1}It may not seem like
a long time... five minutes,
427
00:24:12,205 --> 00:24:13,671
{\an1}ten minutes, 15 minutes,
20 minutes.
428
00:24:13,705 --> 00:24:16,938
{\an1}And I think about all of that
time added up.
429
00:24:16,971 --> 00:24:19,005
{\an1}That's time I'm not spending
430
00:24:19,038 --> 00:24:21,605
{\an1}on grants, on writing papers,
431
00:24:21,638 --> 00:24:23,738
{\an1}on networking with my peers,
432
00:24:23,771 --> 00:24:25,971
{\an1}on just doing research with my
students,
433
00:24:26,005 --> 00:24:29,771
{\an1}because I'm trying to navigate
these oppressive systems
434
00:24:29,805 --> 00:24:33,705
{\an1}that people who are not in the
marginalized communities,
435
00:24:33,738 --> 00:24:37,405
{\an1}not only do they not have to do
that, they don't even...
436
00:24:37,438 --> 00:24:39,238
{\an1}It doesn't even register.
437
00:24:39,271 --> 00:24:41,271
{\an1}It's not something that they
even think about,
438
00:24:41,305 --> 00:24:44,171
{\an1}let alone it being a time suck
in their schedule.
439
00:24:44,205 --> 00:24:47,071
♪
440
00:24:47,105 --> 00:24:49,671
{\an1}You have to remember that,
because I'm, like...
441
00:24:49,705 --> 00:24:53,171
(whispers):
"How's this person, like, able
to do, like, all this stuff?"
442
00:24:53,205 --> 00:24:55,571
{\an1}And then you're, like, "Oh."
(laughs)
443
00:24:55,605 --> 00:24:58,705
{\an1}"That's because they're not
having to do any of that stuff."
444
00:24:58,738 --> 00:25:00,447
{\an1}You know, and that's, that's
the other thing
445
00:25:00,471 --> 00:25:03,905
{\an1}you have to kind of remember.
446
00:25:03,938 --> 00:25:08,238
{\an8}♪
447
00:25:17,738 --> 00:25:19,247
HOPKINS:
When you're starting out in
science,
448
00:25:19,271 --> 00:25:22,105
{\an7}it's kind of like getting
an airplane up off the ground,
449
00:25:22,138 --> 00:25:23,105
{\an7}you know, you've got to get...
450
00:25:23,138 --> 00:25:25,171
{\an1}You've got to get going.
451
00:25:25,205 --> 00:25:27,138
{\an1}Make enough discoveries
452
00:25:27,171 --> 00:25:30,338
{\an1}that you can become known.
453
00:25:30,371 --> 00:25:31,638
{\an1}So I just kept working.
454
00:25:31,671 --> 00:25:34,305
{\an1}A couple of years passed,
455
00:25:34,338 --> 00:25:37,171
{\an1}and suddenly I was called by
M.I.T.
456
00:25:37,205 --> 00:25:40,505
{\an1}and asked to apply
for a faculty job.
457
00:25:41,871 --> 00:25:47,371
{\an1}But I did begin to have trouble
as a junior faculty.
458
00:25:47,405 --> 00:25:48,638
These post-docs,
459
00:25:48,671 --> 00:25:51,405
{\an1}I think, saw you more
as a technician
460
00:25:51,438 --> 00:25:52,605
{\an1}than a faculty member.
461
00:25:54,971 --> 00:25:56,805
{\an7}The reagents you made and so
forth,
462
00:25:56,838 --> 00:25:58,038
{\an7}they saw it as just a...
463
00:25:58,071 --> 00:26:00,471
{\an1}They could just go and take
anything they wanted,
464
00:26:00,505 --> 00:26:01,971
{\an1}because after all,
what were you?
465
00:26:02,005 --> 00:26:03,705
{\an1}You were just a technician,
I guess.
466
00:26:03,738 --> 00:26:06,071
♪
467
00:26:06,105 --> 00:26:07,805
{\an1}I'd have to wait to use my own
equipment,
468
00:26:07,838 --> 00:26:09,381
{\an1}and they would take things out
of the incubator.
469
00:26:09,405 --> 00:26:10,905
{\an1}Just take them, you know,
470
00:26:10,938 --> 00:26:13,371
{\an1}and I didn't want to tell them
not to, because in that era,
471
00:26:13,405 --> 00:26:16,205
{\an1}women had to be nice to
everybody, they had to be
472
00:26:16,238 --> 00:26:17,738
{\an1}polite to everybody.
473
00:26:17,771 --> 00:26:19,938
{\an1}You couldn't, you know,
474
00:26:19,971 --> 00:26:22,971
be unpleasant,
or people would say,
475
00:26:23,005 --> 00:26:24,838
{\an1}"Oh, there's that nasty,
difficult woman."
476
00:26:24,871 --> 00:26:26,471
{\an1}And then everybody would
avoid you.
477
00:26:26,505 --> 00:26:28,205
So I was,
didn't want to do that.
478
00:26:29,538 --> 00:26:32,338
{\an1}And the other thing I found is,
I started publishing papers,
479
00:26:32,371 --> 00:26:34,171
{\an1}and then I found you'd publish
the papers,
480
00:26:34,205 --> 00:26:35,305
{\an1}and you would have trouble
481
00:26:35,338 --> 00:26:37,371
getting credit
for the discovery.
482
00:26:37,405 --> 00:26:38,714
{\an1}Everybody feels that way
in science.
483
00:26:38,738 --> 00:26:40,114
{\an1}Everyone thinks their work
is undervalued,
484
00:26:40,138 --> 00:26:42,171
{\an1}and they're under...
Everyone feels that way.
485
00:26:42,205 --> 00:26:44,771
{\an1}But I thought, "No, this is
somehow different."
486
00:26:48,105 --> 00:26:50,071
{\an7}And, again, I didn't tell
anybody that,
487
00:26:50,105 --> 00:26:52,338
{\an7}because they, who's going
to believe you, you know?
488
00:26:52,371 --> 00:26:53,438
{\an8}Nobody.
489
00:26:55,305 --> 00:26:56,838
{\an7}So I just kept working,
490
00:26:56,871 --> 00:26:59,138
{\an7}and I got promoted to associate
professor,
491
00:26:59,171 --> 00:27:01,281
{\an7}and I guess the letters were
very, very good that came in.
492
00:27:01,305 --> 00:27:02,471
{\an8}So I got tenure.
493
00:27:02,505 --> 00:27:04,171
{\an8}♪
494
00:27:04,205 --> 00:27:08,471
{\an7}I began to have these
significant problems.
495
00:27:08,505 --> 00:27:10,738
{\an7}It was probably about 1990,
roughly.
496
00:27:10,771 --> 00:27:12,771
{\an7}I was going to set up
zebra fish.
497
00:27:12,805 --> 00:27:17,071
{\an7}You can do genetics in fish,
genetics of behavior,
498
00:27:17,105 --> 00:27:19,538
{\an7}and I needed to get
200 square feet of space
499
00:27:19,571 --> 00:27:21,014
{\an7}to put the fish tanks in,
and I couldn't.
500
00:27:21,038 --> 00:27:23,638
{\an7}One man said to me,
"You don't think you could
501
00:27:23,671 --> 00:27:25,438
{\an1}really handle a bigger lab,
do you?"
502
00:27:25,471 --> 00:27:30,605
{\an1}And I went to the people
administering the space,
503
00:27:30,638 --> 00:27:33,771
{\an1}said I'm senior faculty,
and I had less space
504
00:27:33,805 --> 00:27:35,771
{\an1}than some junior faculty.
505
00:27:35,805 --> 00:27:37,281
{\an1}The man said, you know,
"That's not true."
506
00:27:37,305 --> 00:27:41,471
{\an1}So I literally thought, "Okay,
I have to show him it's true."
507
00:27:41,505 --> 00:27:43,605
{\an1}Took a tape measure,
508
00:27:43,638 --> 00:27:45,738
{\an1}and I would go around the
building
509
00:27:45,771 --> 00:27:47,614
{\an1}when there weren't people there,
and go into the lab,
510
00:27:47,638 --> 00:27:51,505
{\an1}and I would measure the lab,
write down the space.
511
00:27:51,538 --> 00:27:54,671
{\an1}And I would color in the spaces
that each person had,
512
00:27:54,705 --> 00:27:56,138
{\an1}so I could tell how much space.
513
00:27:56,171 --> 00:27:58,838
{\an1}And I'd keep a chart,
and I'd add it up,
514
00:27:58,871 --> 00:28:00,805
{\an1}so it took a lot of time.
515
00:28:00,838 --> 00:28:03,571
{\an1}My idea was that then I would
demonstrate, "Here's the data.
516
00:28:03,605 --> 00:28:07,071
{\an1}I have less space, so how
can you argue with this?"
517
00:28:07,105 --> 00:28:09,338
{\an1}But when I got the measurements
and showed them
518
00:28:09,371 --> 00:28:11,371
{\an1}to the person who was in charge
of space,
519
00:28:11,405 --> 00:28:14,505
{\an1}he refused to look at them.
520
00:28:14,538 --> 00:28:19,005
{\an1}And that's when I became a
radical... activist, I guess,
521
00:28:19,038 --> 00:28:22,005
{\an1}against my wishes.
522
00:28:22,038 --> 00:28:26,971
♪
523
00:28:32,471 --> 00:28:34,205
WILLENBRING:
You know, I expected science
524
00:28:34,238 --> 00:28:37,738
{\an7}to be working really hard
for something,
525
00:28:37,771 --> 00:28:41,771
{\an7}and I was completely sort of
set up
526
00:28:41,805 --> 00:28:44,071
{\an1}for that being the case.
527
00:28:44,105 --> 00:28:47,505
In fact, I enjoyed the struggle
528
00:28:47,538 --> 00:28:50,105
{\an1}and hardship of doing field
work,
529
00:28:50,138 --> 00:28:51,805
{\an1}especially when I was younger
530
00:28:51,838 --> 00:28:53,738
{\an1}and my bones didn't creak
so much.
531
00:28:53,771 --> 00:28:55,771
(laughs):
And...
532
00:28:55,805 --> 00:28:58,571
{\an1}So I was accustomed to that
kind of struggle,
533
00:28:58,605 --> 00:29:01,705
{\an1}and adding to that with a kind
of struggle
534
00:29:01,738 --> 00:29:04,971
{\an1}that's completely unnecessary
and gratuitous
535
00:29:05,005 --> 00:29:08,538
{\an1}was hard to handle,
and did make me think
536
00:29:08,571 --> 00:29:10,105
{\an1}about quitting a couple of
times.
537
00:29:10,138 --> 00:29:12,138
I had...
538
00:29:12,171 --> 00:29:14,538
{\an1}I had other jobs picked out.
539
00:29:14,571 --> 00:29:18,471
{\an1}I would see a bus pass
and think,
540
00:29:18,505 --> 00:29:22,005
{\an1}"Bus driver, that sounds pretty
good."
541
00:29:22,038 --> 00:29:25,905
♪
542
00:29:25,938 --> 00:29:29,005
{\an1}The things that really
got me the most were
543
00:29:29,038 --> 00:29:31,738
{\an1}him telling me that
I'm (bleep) stupid
544
00:29:31,771 --> 00:29:35,838
{\an1}and that I'll never have
a career in science.
545
00:29:35,871 --> 00:29:40,405
{\an1}Those things that sort of got
under my skin
546
00:29:40,438 --> 00:29:43,671
{\an1}in terms of my competence and my
abilities as a scientist,
547
00:29:43,705 --> 00:29:48,905
{\an7}I never really stopped thinking
about those.
548
00:29:52,071 --> 00:29:57,538
{\an1}I didn't really tell many
people at all.
549
00:29:57,571 --> 00:30:00,938
{\an1}It was really something that
I didn't talk about.
550
00:30:00,971 --> 00:30:03,538
{\an1}So I just kept doing my work.
551
00:30:03,571 --> 00:30:04,738
{\an1}I finished my PhD,
552
00:30:04,771 --> 00:30:08,205
{\an1}then I did a post-doc,
553
00:30:08,238 --> 00:30:11,805
and then took
a faculty position.
554
00:30:11,838 --> 00:30:15,638
{\an1}And the whole time, I'm thinking
555
00:30:15,671 --> 00:30:17,938
{\an1}a little bit in the back of my
mind that, you know,
556
00:30:17,971 --> 00:30:20,805
{\an1}"Remember, you sort of told
yourself
557
00:30:20,838 --> 00:30:23,771
{\an1}that you were going
to do something about this?"
558
00:30:23,805 --> 00:30:25,505
{\an1}And I just never did.
559
00:30:25,538 --> 00:30:28,271
{\an1}Look at that structure
on the beach.
560
00:30:28,305 --> 00:30:32,271
{\an1}Oh, yeah, they're doing some
construction on that building.
561
00:30:32,305 --> 00:30:34,138
Mm-hmm, yeah.
562
00:30:37,071 --> 00:30:40,005
{\an1}It's been a while since we've
been on the beach, huh?
563
00:30:40,038 --> 00:30:41,971
{\an1}It's been raining so much.
564
00:30:42,005 --> 00:30:45,638
(chuckles)
565
00:30:45,671 --> 00:30:49,238
Oh, we should remember
where our shoes are.
566
00:30:49,271 --> 00:30:51,905
{\an1}Remember, we made that mistake
before. (laughs)
567
00:30:51,938 --> 00:30:54,805
♪
568
00:30:54,838 --> 00:30:57,505
WILLENBRING:
I knew he was still
a faculty member there,
569
00:30:57,538 --> 00:30:59,105
and I'd heard
through the grapevine
570
00:30:59,138 --> 00:31:01,171
that he was
still harassing women.
571
00:31:01,205 --> 00:31:07,738
{\an1}After that day with my daughter
in the lab, at that point,
572
00:31:07,771 --> 00:31:11,071
{\an1}I realized that, you know,
I had tried to create
573
00:31:11,105 --> 00:31:15,971
{\an1}an environment that was very
science-friendly for her,
574
00:31:16,005 --> 00:31:17,971
{\an1}and done all of the things
575
00:31:18,005 --> 00:31:21,505
{\an1}that women do to try to get
other women
576
00:31:21,538 --> 00:31:24,171
{\an1}or their children into science.
577
00:31:24,205 --> 00:31:27,938
{\an1}The one thing, though,
that I could really do
578
00:31:27,971 --> 00:31:30,871
{\an1}was something that
I hadn't done.
579
00:31:30,905 --> 00:31:34,905
♪
580
00:31:34,938 --> 00:31:37,071
I went and
581
00:31:37,105 --> 00:31:40,438
{\an1}wrote the Title IX complaint,
the first draft of it,
582
00:31:40,471 --> 00:31:41,938
that night.
583
00:31:41,971 --> 00:31:45,638
{\an8}♪
584
00:31:50,538 --> 00:31:54,171
{\an1}And it was, it was a bit
liberating, I have to say.
585
00:31:54,205 --> 00:31:58,571
{\an1}It was 17 years after the fact.
586
00:31:58,605 --> 00:32:03,205
{\an1}I definitely waited until after
getting tenure.
587
00:32:03,238 --> 00:32:04,871
{\an1}I told Adam Lewis,
588
00:32:04,905 --> 00:32:08,171
{\an1}the person who was in the field
with me.
589
00:32:08,205 --> 00:32:11,438
{\an1}I'd always imagined saying
something
590
00:32:11,471 --> 00:32:13,071
{\an1}about how badly I was treated
591
00:32:13,105 --> 00:32:17,905
{\an1}during that field season,
and I was expecting him
592
00:32:17,938 --> 00:32:21,438
{\an1}sort of to say, "I don't want
any part of this."
593
00:32:21,471 --> 00:32:23,305
{\an1}And instead, he said that
594
00:32:23,338 --> 00:32:27,238
{\an1}he's always felt guilty about
that field season,
595
00:32:27,271 --> 00:32:29,205
{\an1}and that he'd be happy to write
a letter.
596
00:32:29,238 --> 00:32:32,738
♪
597
00:32:42,271 --> 00:32:46,338
{\an1}(indistinct chatter)
598
00:32:54,171 --> 00:32:57,538
BURKS:
This conference,
like a lot of science spaces,
599
00:32:57,571 --> 00:32:59,471
{\an1}there's always a bit
of discomfort.
600
00:32:59,505 --> 00:33:02,005
{\an7}It's not designed for
my comfort.
601
00:33:02,038 --> 00:33:04,371
{\an7}And it's not designed for a lot
of people's comfort.
602
00:33:04,405 --> 00:33:09,138
{\an1}It can be, you know,
very majority-heavy.
603
00:33:11,305 --> 00:33:12,947
{\an1}And you'll have things, like,
people will call out, like,
604
00:33:12,971 --> 00:33:15,105
{\an1}"That's a manel!"
605
00:33:15,138 --> 00:33:16,638
You know,
like, all men on your panel.
606
00:33:16,671 --> 00:33:20,138
{\an1}"That panel is whiter
than the cast of 'Friends.'"
607
00:33:20,171 --> 00:33:23,538
{\an1}As a field, we have not
made the place
608
00:33:23,571 --> 00:33:27,105
{\an1}very accessible and inclusive.
609
00:33:39,505 --> 00:33:43,605
{\an1}(passing traffic)
610
00:33:45,438 --> 00:33:47,705
{\an1}I remember I was parking
611
00:33:47,738 --> 00:33:51,738
{\an1}in the faculty lot, where
you need a faculty sticker,
612
00:33:51,771 --> 00:33:53,905
{\an1}which was on the front
of my car,
613
00:33:53,938 --> 00:33:56,305
{\an1}and I pulled into a faculty spot
614
00:33:56,338 --> 00:33:59,905
{\an1}because I am faculty
with a faculty sticker. (laughs)
615
00:33:59,938 --> 00:34:02,738
{\an1}And this other person who was
clear... I mean,
616
00:34:02,771 --> 00:34:04,905
{\an1}I'm assuming maybe
she was on staff.
617
00:34:04,938 --> 00:34:08,605
{\an1}She leans out the window
and yells at me,
618
00:34:08,638 --> 00:34:11,238
{\an1}"Do you work here?
Are you faculty?
619
00:34:11,271 --> 00:34:13,571
{\an1}'Cause this is a faculty lot."
620
00:34:13,605 --> 00:34:18,871
And I said,
"Yes, I have a faculty sticker,
621
00:34:18,905 --> 00:34:20,905
{\an1}and I'm going to park here."
622
00:34:20,938 --> 00:34:23,571
{\an1}And she looked so... she was,
like...
623
00:34:23,605 --> 00:34:26,038
{\an1}"Well, I've never seen you
before."
624
00:34:26,071 --> 00:34:28,538
{\an1}And I, like, went,
"And I've never seen you."
625
00:34:28,571 --> 00:34:32,338
(laughing):
And I just pulled in
and then went.
626
00:34:33,738 --> 00:34:36,505
{\an1}I think the higher you go up the
ivory tower,
627
00:34:36,538 --> 00:34:38,771
{\an1}the whiter it gets, and the more
male,
628
00:34:38,805 --> 00:34:40,805
{\an1}and the more hetero,
629
00:34:40,838 --> 00:34:42,738
{\an1}the kind of majority-dominant
viewpoints
630
00:34:42,771 --> 00:34:44,671
come out.
631
00:34:44,705 --> 00:34:46,905
{\an1}I mean, the fact that you can
still report on how many,
632
00:34:46,938 --> 00:34:49,871
{\an1}you know, women presidents there
are of institutions,
633
00:34:49,905 --> 00:34:51,905
{\an1}how many chairs, how many deans,
634
00:34:51,938 --> 00:34:55,705
{\an1}you know, the numbers are so low
that you're reporting on them.
635
00:35:12,771 --> 00:35:15,771
{\an1}You know, academia is especially
historically marginalizing...
636
00:35:15,805 --> 00:35:19,138
{\an1}you can be very isolated.
637
00:35:19,171 --> 00:35:21,305
{\an1}You get used to being
underestimated.
638
00:35:21,338 --> 00:35:24,971
{\an1}You get used to being treated
a bit shabbily.
639
00:35:27,171 --> 00:35:29,171
{\an1}People can insult us to our face
640
00:35:29,205 --> 00:35:34,205
{\an1}with inappropriate language
and derogatory terminology,
641
00:35:34,238 --> 00:35:37,438
{\an1}but we're the ones that are
supposed to be
642
00:35:37,471 --> 00:35:40,371
{\an1}respectful and civil.
643
00:35:40,405 --> 00:35:44,005
{\an1}And it's not that
you take it personally.
644
00:35:44,038 --> 00:35:46,938
(voice breaks):
You just don't expect
any different.
645
00:35:48,271 --> 00:35:51,638
(tearfully):
You know, for a long time,
646
00:35:51,671 --> 00:35:54,838
you try to fit,
or put the face forward
647
00:35:54,871 --> 00:36:00,738
{\an1}that you are this, whatever
they've built science to be.
648
00:36:00,771 --> 00:36:03,305
{\an1}That you talk a certain way,
and you look a certain way,
649
00:36:03,338 --> 00:36:07,171
{\an1}and you try to fit into that.
650
00:36:07,205 --> 00:36:10,138
{\an1}And even when you do all that,
651
00:36:10,171 --> 00:36:14,571
{\an1}you're still not considered
one of them.
652
00:36:14,605 --> 00:36:20,105
♪
653
00:36:20,138 --> 00:36:23,205
{\an1}But you just get used to that.
654
00:36:23,238 --> 00:36:25,638
{\an1}You get used to being
655
00:36:25,671 --> 00:36:30,605
{\an1}invisible in the sciences.
656
00:36:30,638 --> 00:36:33,138
{\an1}It's weird, 'cause you're
invisible in that way,
657
00:36:33,171 --> 00:36:36,271
{\an1}but then you're hyper-visible,
'cause people are, like,
658
00:36:36,305 --> 00:36:39,571
{\an1}"But why are you here?"
(sniffles)
659
00:36:39,605 --> 00:36:46,305
♪
660
00:37:03,005 --> 00:37:05,571
{\an1}(elevator chimes)
661
00:37:09,605 --> 00:37:13,738
{\an7}Wow, oh, wow, okay, so...
662
00:37:13,771 --> 00:37:16,805
{\an1}This was my office.
663
00:37:16,838 --> 00:37:20,371
This...
664
00:37:20,405 --> 00:37:23,571
{\an1}And that was my lab when I was
665
00:37:23,605 --> 00:37:26,705
{\an1}a junior faculty member.
666
00:37:26,738 --> 00:37:32,338
{\an1}I spent so much of my
life there. (chuckles)
667
00:37:32,371 --> 00:37:34,538
{\an1}Yeah, so I was doing these
measurements,
668
00:37:34,571 --> 00:37:39,005
{\an1}and I tended to do them at
night, because I really thought,
669
00:37:39,038 --> 00:37:40,314
{\an1}you know, people would
think it very odd.
670
00:37:40,338 --> 00:37:41,547
{\an1}"What are you doing?",
and I didn't really want
671
00:37:41,571 --> 00:37:44,438
{\an1}to explain to anybody,
so I would go at night
672
00:37:44,471 --> 00:37:46,838
{\an1}and odd times, and dinner times,
673
00:37:46,871 --> 00:37:49,214
{\an1}when people weren't around, with
my little tape measure here,
674
00:37:49,238 --> 00:37:51,005
{\an1}and I would measure
all the spaces.
675
00:37:51,038 --> 00:37:53,738
{\an1}And I do remember one night, I
was in this room,
676
00:37:53,771 --> 00:37:58,305
{\an1}which I guess no longer exists
in the format it used to.
677
00:37:58,338 --> 00:38:00,471
{\an1}And I was, had my measure out.
678
00:38:00,505 --> 00:38:01,938
{\an1}I was doing the measuring.
679
00:38:01,971 --> 00:38:04,371
{\an1}And somebody unexpectedly...
It was very quiet...
680
00:38:04,405 --> 00:38:06,681
{\an1}but somebody unexpectedly walked
into the room and saw me,
681
00:38:06,705 --> 00:38:09,871
{\an1}and I remember freezing and
thinking, "Uh-oh.
682
00:38:09,905 --> 00:38:12,138
{\an1}"Uh-oh, my cover is blown.
683
00:38:12,171 --> 00:38:14,071
{\an1}"Now they're going to wonder
684
00:38:14,105 --> 00:38:16,271
{\an1}what am I doing here,"
so it was an odd thing.
685
00:38:16,305 --> 00:38:17,638
{\an1}I was a full professor.
686
00:38:17,671 --> 00:38:20,205
{\an1}So what was this woman doing
creeping around in the night
687
00:38:20,238 --> 00:38:23,305
{\an1}with a tape measure,
measuring the lab space?
688
00:38:31,071 --> 00:38:34,238
{\an1}I expected to fight alone.
689
00:38:34,271 --> 00:38:36,805
{\an1}I didn't expect anybody else
to fight
690
00:38:36,838 --> 00:38:41,638
{\an1}with me, but I really knew
that I was right.
691
00:38:41,671 --> 00:38:44,305
{\an1}I decided I was going to give
M.I.T. a last chance.
692
00:38:44,338 --> 00:38:46,905
{\an1}I didn't go back to the provost,
because I was embarrassed.
693
00:38:46,938 --> 00:38:48,281
{\an1}You know, at first,
I had this problem,
694
00:38:48,305 --> 00:38:49,571
{\an1}now I've got another problem.
695
00:38:49,605 --> 00:38:52,238
{\an1}So I wrote to the president of
M.I.T., and I said,
696
00:38:52,271 --> 00:38:53,371
{\an1}"There's a kind of systemic
697
00:38:53,405 --> 00:38:54,714
{\an1}and invisible discrimination
against women."
698
00:38:54,738 --> 00:38:58,905
{\an1}And I wrote this letter,
and I showed it
699
00:38:58,938 --> 00:39:00,047
{\an1}to another woman faculty member,
700
00:39:00,071 --> 00:39:01,771
{\an1}so she can see whether
it would be
701
00:39:01,805 --> 00:39:03,938
{\an1}understandable to the president.
702
00:39:03,971 --> 00:39:05,581
{\an1}And if she approves of that,
I'm sending it.
703
00:39:05,605 --> 00:39:08,805
{\an1}And the woman that I chose was,
of course,
704
00:39:08,838 --> 00:39:11,071
{\an7}this woman I had revered for
so long,
705
00:39:11,105 --> 00:39:14,371
{\an7}and that was Mary-Lou Pardue.
706
00:39:14,405 --> 00:39:16,014
{\an8}PARDUE:
From time to time,
Nancy and I would get together
707
00:39:16,038 --> 00:39:17,938
{\an7}and talk about things,
and so she
708
00:39:17,971 --> 00:39:21,571
{\an7}had wanted me to, to see what
I thought about the letter.
709
00:39:21,605 --> 00:39:26,005
HOPKINS:
I asked her to have lunch.
710
00:39:26,038 --> 00:39:29,171
{\an1}We went to Rebecca's Cafe,
which was just down the street.
711
00:39:29,205 --> 00:39:31,205
{\an1}We sat in this little corner
table,
712
00:39:31,238 --> 00:39:34,638
{\an1}noisy lunchtime crowd,
and I had my letter.
713
00:39:34,671 --> 00:39:37,605
{\an1}She looks very serious.
714
00:39:37,638 --> 00:39:39,338
{\an1}And we've never talked about
gender issues,
715
00:39:39,371 --> 00:39:41,814
{\an1}and I think she's going to think
I'm just some loser, you know,
716
00:39:41,838 --> 00:39:42,981
{\an1}who really isn't good enough.
717
00:39:43,005 --> 00:39:44,471
Maybe she thinks
I'm not good enough,
718
00:39:44,505 --> 00:39:46,147
{\an1}and that's why these things
are happening to me.
719
00:39:46,171 --> 00:39:48,271
{\an1}I had no idea, so it was very
embarrassing
720
00:39:48,305 --> 00:39:49,747
and humiliating
to ask her to do this.
721
00:39:49,771 --> 00:39:53,305
{\an1}She reads the letter slowly,
722
00:39:53,338 --> 00:39:56,271
{\an1}and I'm watching,
and I'm so anxious, because
723
00:39:56,305 --> 00:39:59,705
{\an1}I think she's thinking badly
of me.
724
00:39:59,738 --> 00:40:02,371
{\an1}She gets to the bottom,
and she says,
725
00:40:02,405 --> 00:40:05,538
{\an1}"I'd like to sign this letter,
726
00:40:05,571 --> 00:40:08,105
{\an1}"and I think we should go
and see President Vest,
727
00:40:08,138 --> 00:40:11,071
{\an7}because I've thought these
things for a long time."
728
00:40:11,105 --> 00:40:16,271
{\an8}PARDUE:
I had seen enough of the kind
of things that go on
729
00:40:16,305 --> 00:40:19,738
{\an7}that I really wanted
to support her.
730
00:40:19,771 --> 00:40:22,638
{\an8}HOPKINS:
We suddenly realized, "Gee,
if you get it and I get it,
731
00:40:22,671 --> 00:40:25,638
{\an7}there might be other people who
also have figured this out."
732
00:40:25,671 --> 00:40:30,705
{\an8}PARDUE:
So then she and I,
we went around and talked
733
00:40:30,738 --> 00:40:35,271
{\an7}to each of the tenured women
in the School of Science.
734
00:40:35,305 --> 00:40:38,238
{\an8}SYLVIA CEYER:
I didn't know her.
735
00:40:38,271 --> 00:40:41,705
{\an7}She came to my office in the
spring of '94,
736
00:40:41,738 --> 00:40:45,871
{\an7}and wanted to chat about
what it was
737
00:40:45,905 --> 00:40:48,838
{\an7}to be a female in the
chemistry department.
738
00:40:48,871 --> 00:40:53,205
{\an7}It became evident that there
were very, very few women
739
00:40:53,238 --> 00:40:54,738
{\an7}in the faculty at M.I.T.
740
00:40:54,771 --> 00:40:58,505
{\an8}HOPKINS:
15 women in the six departments
of science
741
00:40:58,538 --> 00:41:03,071
{\an8}and 197 men.
742
00:41:03,105 --> 00:41:05,038
{\an8}They were such
high-profile women.
743
00:41:05,071 --> 00:41:06,914
{\an7}Half of them were in the
National Academy of Science.
744
00:41:06,938 --> 00:41:09,571
{\an7}Most of us didn't really...
We knew of each other,
745
00:41:09,605 --> 00:41:11,045
{\an7}but we didn't really know
each other.
746
00:41:13,305 --> 00:41:16,405
CEYER:
And we made sure this meeting
was in a remote location,
747
00:41:16,438 --> 00:41:19,005
{\an1}so nobody could see us.
(laughs)
748
00:41:19,038 --> 00:41:21,271
{\an1}I have this feeling it was
a very small room,
749
00:41:21,305 --> 00:41:22,481
and half of us
were sitting on the floor.
750
00:41:22,505 --> 00:41:24,971
{\an8}I wanted to know
if this was something
751
00:41:25,005 --> 00:41:27,738
{\an8}that was just
a biology department problem,
752
00:41:27,771 --> 00:41:31,071
{\an1}or whether this was
a bigger problem.
753
00:41:31,105 --> 00:41:34,238
CHISHOLM:
At the beginning, nobody really
wanted to jump right in
754
00:41:34,271 --> 00:41:38,538
{\an1}and go there, because you don't
want to be perceived as,
755
00:41:38,571 --> 00:41:40,371
{\an1}you know, weaker than,
756
00:41:40,405 --> 00:41:44,138
{\an1}but it all just came out in
little trickles,
757
00:41:44,171 --> 00:41:46,271
{\an1}and, suddenly, you know,
everybody was just
758
00:41:46,305 --> 00:41:47,771
{\an1}letting it all hang out.
759
00:41:47,805 --> 00:41:50,738
CEYER:
There were comments from my male
colleagues like,
760
00:41:50,771 --> 00:41:55,038
{\an1}"Well, she really isn't as smart
as she's given credit for."
761
00:41:55,071 --> 00:41:56,881
{\an1}No woman had ever taken family
leave and gotten tenure.
762
00:41:56,905 --> 00:41:59,505
{\an7}Women were afraid to take it
763
00:41:59,538 --> 00:42:01,405
{\an7}because of the stigma
attached to it.
764
00:42:01,438 --> 00:42:04,605
{\an7}A guy said that we
are a bunch of hysterical women.
765
00:42:04,638 --> 00:42:06,038
{\an8}(laughs):
Yeah.
766
00:42:06,071 --> 00:42:09,438
{\an1}At that time, the problem
was, women were not listened to,
767
00:42:09,471 --> 00:42:11,071
{\an1}and this was going to be
the place
768
00:42:11,105 --> 00:42:13,005
{\an1}where every woman's opinion
counted.
769
00:42:13,038 --> 00:42:16,838
♪
770
00:42:20,271 --> 00:42:22,105
CHISHOLM:
I just remember us all
marching as a,
771
00:42:22,138 --> 00:42:24,938
{\an1}as a pack to the dean's office
together.
772
00:42:27,671 --> 00:42:31,338
HOPKINS:
And we felt intimidated,
as if somehow, you know,
773
00:42:31,371 --> 00:42:34,905
{\an1}we didn't belong there.
774
00:42:34,938 --> 00:42:37,071
{\an1}We asked if we could have
a committee
775
00:42:37,105 --> 00:42:38,638
{\an1}that could document the problem.
776
00:42:38,671 --> 00:42:43,371
CEYER:
What we wanted to do was,
we wanted to see the data.
777
00:42:43,405 --> 00:42:46,071
HOPKINS:
It was very scary, I mean,
for me, it was...
778
00:42:46,105 --> 00:42:47,771
{\an1}The future of my life in science
779
00:42:47,805 --> 00:42:49,571
{\an1}was on the balance there.
780
00:42:49,605 --> 00:42:52,638
{\an1}And the dean came in,
and he said,
781
00:42:52,671 --> 00:42:54,205
{\an1}"You can have the committee,
782
00:42:54,238 --> 00:42:56,171
{\an1}"but I don't think
it can fix this problem,
783
00:42:56,205 --> 00:42:57,381
{\an1}"because I don't know
how to fix it.
784
00:42:57,405 --> 00:42:58,905
{\an1}"I think the problem
is the nature
785
00:42:58,938 --> 00:43:01,038
{\an1}of a very male-dominated
culture."
786
00:43:01,071 --> 00:43:06,171
♪
787
00:43:17,438 --> 00:43:20,905
ADAM LEWIS:
I went to Jane's house
in Mandan, North Dakota.
788
00:43:20,938 --> 00:43:23,171
{\an7}It was her wedding.
789
00:43:23,205 --> 00:43:25,138
{\an7}And so she'd, I hadn't...
She'd been graduated
790
00:43:25,171 --> 00:43:26,605
{\an7}for a couple of years
or whatever.
791
00:43:26,638 --> 00:43:29,738
{\an7}And I was in the house, and her
brother was standing there,
792
00:43:29,771 --> 00:43:31,805
{\an1}and I was talking to her
brother,
793
00:43:31,838 --> 00:43:33,414
{\an1}and I introduced myself,
I say, "I'm Adam..."
794
00:43:33,438 --> 00:43:35,871
{\an1}And I said, "I went to
Antarctica with them."
795
00:43:35,905 --> 00:43:37,505
{\an1}And he just stiffened.
796
00:43:37,538 --> 00:43:40,205
He went...
797
00:43:40,238 --> 00:43:43,805
{\an1}And just stiffened like a board,
like...
798
00:43:43,838 --> 00:43:45,838
{\an1}And instantly, I thought, "God,
something is..."
799
00:43:45,871 --> 00:43:48,438
{\an1}And he goes, "You were in
Antarctica with her?"
800
00:43:48,471 --> 00:43:49,838
{\an1}And I was, like, "Yeah."
801
00:43:49,871 --> 00:43:52,538
{\an1}He said, "So you were there when
all that took place."
802
00:43:52,571 --> 00:43:55,038
And I was, like,
"What, what took place?
803
00:43:55,071 --> 00:43:56,171
{\an1}Like, what do you mean?"
804
00:43:56,205 --> 00:43:58,738
{\an1}He said, "When Marchant treated
her like (bleep)
805
00:43:58,771 --> 00:44:02,438
{\an7}and tried to just ruin her,
you were there."
806
00:44:02,471 --> 00:44:06,005
{\an7}So, for the next few minutes,
I had this realization.
807
00:44:06,038 --> 00:44:08,938
{\an7}At Jane's wedding in Mandan,
North Dakota,
808
00:44:08,971 --> 00:44:10,338
{\an1}after talking to her brother,
809
00:44:10,371 --> 00:44:11,847
{\an1}I was kind of standing there by
myself with, like,
810
00:44:11,871 --> 00:44:14,271
{\an1}a drink in my hand, going,
like, "Holy (bleep),
811
00:44:14,305 --> 00:44:17,471
{\an1}that must have been
really bad for Jane."
812
00:44:20,138 --> 00:44:23,305
{\an1}My name is Adam Lewis.
813
00:44:23,338 --> 00:44:24,971
And I met Jane
814
00:44:25,005 --> 00:44:27,171
{\an1}when I became a graduate
student.
815
00:44:27,205 --> 00:44:30,338
{\an1}So we went to Antarctica
together.
816
00:44:30,371 --> 00:44:31,781
{\an1}And I was just in my office one
day, just working,
817
00:44:31,805 --> 00:44:33,238
{\an1}and an email pops up.
818
00:44:33,271 --> 00:44:38,071
{\an1}Jane says, "Hey, I've decided
it's time to, to come out
819
00:44:38,105 --> 00:44:39,971
{\an1}"and file this report about
820
00:44:40,005 --> 00:44:41,671
{\an1}how Dave's treatment of women
has been."
821
00:44:41,705 --> 00:44:43,605
{\an1}And you know, she's, like,
"I know he's done it
822
00:44:43,638 --> 00:44:46,338
{\an1}to other women, and I just think
it, it needs to be dealt with."
823
00:44:48,271 --> 00:44:51,171
{\an1}She said, "You might need to
write down
824
00:44:51,205 --> 00:44:54,205
{\an1}what your experience is,
what you remember."
825
00:44:54,238 --> 00:44:55,638
{\an1}So I don't have a choice.
826
00:44:55,671 --> 00:44:58,238
{\an1}My only choice is to just
sit down and tell the truth.
827
00:44:58,271 --> 00:45:00,171
{\an1}That's my only choice.
828
00:45:00,205 --> 00:45:02,505
{\an1}I view Jane as a colleague
and a friend.
829
00:45:02,538 --> 00:45:06,738
{\an1}And so why wouldn't
I support her?
830
00:45:13,238 --> 00:45:17,005
{\an8}SANGEETA BHATIA:
It feels like a really special
moment in time.
831
00:45:17,038 --> 00:45:19,405
{\an8}♪
832
00:45:21,871 --> 00:45:24,138
{\an7}We're making inroads,
833
00:45:24,171 --> 00:45:27,871
{\an7}but it's just too darn slow.
834
00:45:28,938 --> 00:45:30,838
{\an1}So, when I was a freshman
in college,
835
00:45:30,871 --> 00:45:33,071
my best friend,
who was also an engineer.
836
00:45:33,105 --> 00:45:35,081
{\an7}And we were sort of, like,
together through the experience,
837
00:45:35,105 --> 00:45:36,671
{\an7}which I think was really
important
838
00:45:36,705 --> 00:45:41,005
{\an7}for, for both of our retention
in the profession.
839
00:45:41,038 --> 00:45:42,838
{\an1}We looked around, and we noticed
840
00:45:42,871 --> 00:45:46,105
{\an1}that the classroom
was about half women.
841
00:45:46,138 --> 00:45:48,871
And, you know,
I remember very clearly that
842
00:45:48,905 --> 00:45:51,971
{\an1}we had a conversation about,
"What is all the fuss about?"
843
00:45:52,005 --> 00:45:54,238
{\an1}Like, "There's plenty of women
in this classroom.
844
00:45:54,271 --> 00:45:56,438
{\an1}Maybe it's just a matter
of time."
845
00:45:56,471 --> 00:45:58,005
{\an1}And this is something I still
hear,
846
00:45:58,038 --> 00:45:59,838
{\an1}"Oh, it's just a matter of
time."
847
00:45:59,871 --> 00:46:03,338
{\an1}And we looked around again
senior year,
848
00:46:03,371 --> 00:46:08,871
{\an7}and there was, out of
100 students, seven of us left.
849
00:46:08,905 --> 00:46:10,438
{\an7}And we sort of realized, like,
850
00:46:10,471 --> 00:46:14,905
{\an7}"Oh, this is the leaky
pipeline."
851
00:46:14,938 --> 00:46:17,705
{\an1}"This is disproportionate
attrition."
852
00:46:17,738 --> 00:46:20,538
♪
853
00:46:30,505 --> 00:46:35,971
{\an8}JOHNSON:
In STEM, we have spent a lot
of resources and time
854
00:46:36,005 --> 00:46:39,171
{\an7}to get young girls
focused on STEM.
855
00:46:39,205 --> 00:46:44,871
{\an7}So we know that we've
been filling the pipeline.
856
00:46:44,905 --> 00:46:47,971
{\an7}The problem is that sexual
harassment
857
00:46:48,005 --> 00:46:52,105
{\an1}actually creates many leaks
in that pipeline.
858
00:46:52,138 --> 00:46:54,305
{\an1}So we're doing a lot of work,
859
00:46:54,338 --> 00:46:57,238
{\an1}but some of that work
is actually being undone.
860
00:47:00,438 --> 00:47:02,181
{\an8}BHATIA:
Why do you move away from
a profession
861
00:47:02,205 --> 00:47:04,605
{\an7}and choose a different one,
you know?
862
00:47:04,638 --> 00:47:06,671
{\an1}That's sort of a collection of
personal choices,
863
00:47:06,705 --> 00:47:08,371
{\an1}but part of it is the culture.
864
00:47:11,471 --> 00:47:13,638
{\an7}There's a whole body of
social science
865
00:47:13,671 --> 00:47:17,571
{\an1}that has emerged where this is
actually no longer a mystery.
866
00:47:17,605 --> 00:47:22,838
♪
867
00:47:26,405 --> 00:47:28,647
{\an1}CORINNE MOSS-RACUSIN:
I assumed that the study that we
ultimately did
868
00:47:28,671 --> 00:47:30,581
{\an7}or something similar
would already have been done.
869
00:47:30,605 --> 00:47:32,305
{\an7}I was just interested to see,
870
00:47:32,338 --> 00:47:35,405
{\an8}what is the
experimental evidence
871
00:47:35,438 --> 00:47:36,814
{\an1}of whether or not there's
gender bias
872
00:47:36,838 --> 00:47:39,238
{\an1}amongst the scientific
community?
873
00:47:39,271 --> 00:47:40,481
{\an1}And I was surprised to see that
874
00:47:40,505 --> 00:47:42,205
{\an1}that study had not yet been
conducted.
875
00:47:42,238 --> 00:47:46,805
{\an1}So that's really what we
immediately dug in to pursue.
876
00:47:46,838 --> 00:47:49,138
{\an1}The methodology of the study
is really simple.
877
00:47:49,171 --> 00:47:50,605
{\an1}We describe a student
who's applying
878
00:47:50,638 --> 00:47:52,871
{\an1}to be a lab manager,
in this case.
879
00:47:52,905 --> 00:47:56,405
{\an1}But the qualifications, the
thing that participants read...
880
00:47:56,438 --> 00:48:00,938
{\an1}you know, their application...
Is identical.
881
00:48:00,971 --> 00:48:03,338
{\an1}Except half of our participants
are told
882
00:48:03,371 --> 00:48:05,738
{\an1}that the student is a woman,
Jennifer,
883
00:48:05,771 --> 00:48:08,738
{\an1}and half are told that
the student is a man, John.
884
00:48:08,771 --> 00:48:12,971
{\an1}So any differences at all in
our conditions
885
00:48:13,005 --> 00:48:15,471
{\an1}or how the participants react
to these two students
886
00:48:15,505 --> 00:48:18,438
{\an1}is attributable solely to the
student's gender.
887
00:48:18,471 --> 00:48:22,738
♪
888
00:48:22,771 --> 00:48:25,238
{\an1}We worked hard to recruit
a representative sample
889
00:48:25,271 --> 00:48:27,371
of STEM faculty
from around the country,
890
00:48:27,405 --> 00:48:32,571
{\an1}and we sent half of them
the application from Jennifer
891
00:48:32,605 --> 00:48:37,338
{\an1}and half the application
from John.
892
00:48:37,371 --> 00:48:39,105
{\an1}We told them that this was
a student
893
00:48:39,138 --> 00:48:40,647
{\an1}who had actually applied to be a
lab manager
894
00:48:40,671 --> 00:48:45,238
{\an1}somewhere in the country over
the course of the last year,
895
00:48:45,271 --> 00:48:47,271
and that,
for this new mentoring program,
896
00:48:47,305 --> 00:48:49,114
{\an1}we needed their candid
assessments of the student.
897
00:48:49,138 --> 00:48:52,971
(mouse clicking)
898
00:48:53,005 --> 00:48:56,238
{\an1}I remember the day I was sitting
at my computer
899
00:48:56,271 --> 00:48:58,271
{\an1}doing the first pass of data
analysis for this,
900
00:48:58,305 --> 00:49:02,005
{\an1}and I thought I had something
miscoded,
901
00:49:02,038 --> 00:49:03,305
{\an1}because I just didn't expect
902
00:49:03,338 --> 00:49:07,338
{\an1}to see the same picture over and
over again.
903
00:49:07,371 --> 00:49:08,571
{\an1}The female student
904
00:49:08,605 --> 00:49:11,071
{\an1}is rated as inferior
to the male student
905
00:49:11,105 --> 00:49:12,905
{\an1}on every dimension that
we assessed.
906
00:49:16,038 --> 00:49:19,638
{\an7}She's rated as less competent.
907
00:49:19,671 --> 00:49:24,071
{\an7}She's less likely to be hired
for a lab manager job,
908
00:49:24,105 --> 00:49:27,638
{\an7}less likely to be mentored by
a faculty member,
909
00:49:27,671 --> 00:49:30,105
{\an7}and given a lower starting
salary
910
00:49:30,138 --> 00:49:33,205
{\an7}than the identical male student.
911
00:49:33,238 --> 00:49:35,771
{\an1}The only difference between
them is their gender.
912
00:49:35,805 --> 00:49:38,171
{\an1}And so we're really quantifying
gender bias.
913
00:49:43,671 --> 00:49:47,071
{\an1}Not every woman contends with
this identically.
914
00:49:47,105 --> 00:49:48,405
{\an1}Women of color are targeted
915
00:49:48,438 --> 00:49:51,538
{\an1}in ways that are more complex,
more insidious,
916
00:49:51,571 --> 00:49:52,638
{\an1}and just more common.
917
00:49:52,671 --> 00:49:54,805
(door opening)
918
00:49:54,838 --> 00:49:59,238
It's not always
who you might think
919
00:49:59,271 --> 00:50:01,471
{\an1}is going to be demonstrating
these biases.
920
00:50:03,771 --> 00:50:06,338
{\an1}Bias comes from normal
921
00:50:06,371 --> 00:50:08,705
{\an1}cognitive processing mechanisms.
922
00:50:08,738 --> 00:50:12,005
{\an1}And what that means is that
really well-intentioned folks
923
00:50:12,038 --> 00:50:15,271
{\an1}tend to display these sorts
of very pervasive biases.
924
00:50:17,038 --> 00:50:19,938
{\an1}It's not sort of an evil cartoon
of someone
925
00:50:19,971 --> 00:50:21,605
{\an1}who's delighting in thwarting
926
00:50:21,638 --> 00:50:25,438
{\an1}the progress of, of smart
women... it's all of us.
927
00:50:28,871 --> 00:50:31,305
{\an8}MAHZARIN BANAJI:
Consciously, I could say
I have
928
00:50:31,338 --> 00:50:33,205
{\an8}zero bias.
929
00:50:33,238 --> 00:50:36,405
{\an7}To me, men and women who perform
the same are equal.
930
00:50:36,438 --> 00:50:40,971
{\an1}But I think we're in those very
early moments in the science
931
00:50:41,005 --> 00:50:44,271
{\an1}where we're able to actually get
snapshots
932
00:50:44,305 --> 00:50:45,905
{\an1}of what's inside our mind
933
00:50:45,938 --> 00:50:47,505
{\an1}of which we don't know.
934
00:50:47,538 --> 00:50:50,238
BANAJI:
So what we're going
to do today is,
935
00:50:50,271 --> 00:50:53,505
you are participants in
a couple of little exercises.
936
00:50:53,538 --> 00:50:56,538
{\an1}I hope you find this as
937
00:50:56,571 --> 00:50:59,838
{\an1}intriguing as I did when
I first took this test.
938
00:50:59,871 --> 00:51:02,205
{\an1}This test is called the I.A.T.,
939
00:51:02,238 --> 00:51:03,738
or the Implicit
Association Test.
940
00:51:03,771 --> 00:51:06,371
BANAJI:
The I.A.T. has a very simple
941
00:51:06,405 --> 00:51:08,571
{\an1}idea that underlies it.
942
00:51:08,605 --> 00:51:12,805
{\an1}The idea is that if two things
have something in common,
943
00:51:12,838 --> 00:51:15,738
{\an1}we'll be more easily able
to put them together.
944
00:51:15,771 --> 00:51:17,938
{\an1}And sometimes this just happens
in our experience.
945
00:51:17,971 --> 00:51:20,138
{\an7}Salt and pepper go together.
946
00:51:20,171 --> 00:51:22,247
{\an7}They're opposites in one sense,
but they go together,
947
00:51:22,271 --> 00:51:23,905
{\an7}because we combine them.
948
00:51:23,938 --> 00:51:26,238
{\an7}The word "king" and "queen"
go together.
949
00:51:26,271 --> 00:51:28,905
{\an7}This is not a hard idea
to imagine.
950
00:51:28,938 --> 00:51:32,505
{\an7}And so we use this idea to argue
that if two things
951
00:51:32,538 --> 00:51:35,105
{\an7}have come to be associated over
and over again
952
00:51:35,138 --> 00:51:37,805
{\an7}in our experience,
whether we know it or not,
953
00:51:37,838 --> 00:51:40,971
{\an7}we will be faster to put them
together.
954
00:51:41,005 --> 00:51:44,838
{\an1}Nobody has any trouble
understanding why this might be.
955
00:51:44,871 --> 00:51:48,338
(laughs):
It's a no-brainer, as a
neuroscientist might say, okay.
956
00:51:48,371 --> 00:51:50,938
{\an1}So imagine that in the test,
957
00:51:50,971 --> 00:51:52,638
{\an1}you're asked to do something
very simple.
958
00:51:52,671 --> 00:51:54,981
{\an1}BANAJI:
A word is going to pop up
in the middle of the screen.
959
00:51:55,005 --> 00:51:58,371
{\an1}You're going to see names
of men and women.
960
00:51:58,405 --> 00:52:00,371
{\an1}You're also gonna
see words that are
961
00:52:00,405 --> 00:52:03,438
{\an1}in two categories,
family and career,
962
00:52:03,471 --> 00:52:05,538
{\an1}and the career part that I've
chosen,
963
00:52:05,571 --> 00:52:07,471
{\an1}think scientific career.
964
00:52:07,505 --> 00:52:11,105
{\an1}Words for career are words
like "scientist," "laboratory,"
965
00:52:11,138 --> 00:52:12,371
{\an1}"biologist."
966
00:52:12,405 --> 00:52:14,171
{\an1}Words for home
are going to be words like
967
00:52:14,205 --> 00:52:16,905
{\an1}"marriage," "kitchen,"
"children."
968
00:52:16,938 --> 00:52:20,905
{\an1}All you have to do is put the
two together, right?
969
00:52:20,938 --> 00:52:25,138
{\an1}So, if the name is a male name
or the word is a career word,
970
00:52:25,171 --> 00:52:26,771
you will say, "Left."
971
00:52:26,805 --> 00:52:28,605
{\an1}And if it's a female name
or a home word,
972
00:52:28,638 --> 00:52:30,205
{\an1}you will say, "Right."
973
00:52:30,238 --> 00:52:31,505
{\an1}Okay, you got it?
974
00:52:31,538 --> 00:52:32,638
{\an1}Keep that in your mind.
975
00:52:32,671 --> 00:52:36,205
{\an1}Oh, and you have to go
super-fast to do this.
976
00:52:36,238 --> 00:52:37,971
{\an1}By super-fast, I mean, like,
977
00:52:38,005 --> 00:52:40,038
{\an1}700 milliseconds,
978
00:52:40,071 --> 00:52:43,105
{\an1}meaning faster than a second
to make each response.
979
00:52:43,138 --> 00:52:45,838
{\an1}Okay, so, simple, ready...
980
00:52:45,871 --> 00:52:47,338
{\an3}Go.
981
00:52:47,371 --> 00:52:50,438
STUDENTS:
Left, left, right, right, left,
982
00:52:50,471 --> 00:52:52,838
{\an1}left, left, right, right,
983
00:52:52,871 --> 00:52:54,905
{\an1}right, right, right,
984
00:52:54,938 --> 00:52:57,338
{\an1}left, left, right...
985
00:52:57,371 --> 00:52:59,305
{\an1}(students stumbling and slowing)
986
00:52:59,338 --> 00:53:02,571
{\an1}Left, left, left, right, right.
987
00:53:02,605 --> 00:53:03,705
BANAJI:
Excellent.
988
00:53:03,738 --> 00:53:05,505
BANAJI:
The trouble arises...
989
00:53:05,538 --> 00:53:09,871
{\an1}this is what makes it a test...
That we now flip these.
990
00:53:09,905 --> 00:53:11,805
{\an1}And now we'll do the other
version.
991
00:53:11,838 --> 00:53:15,005
If it's a female name or
a career word, like "scientist"
992
00:53:15,038 --> 00:53:16,005
{\an1}or that, you'll say, "Left."
993
00:53:16,038 --> 00:53:17,738
{\an1}If it's a male name
or a house word,
994
00:53:17,771 --> 00:53:19,771
{\an1}you will say, "Right," okay?
995
00:53:19,805 --> 00:53:21,938
{\an1}Everybody ready to go? Go.
996
00:53:21,971 --> 00:53:27,705
{\an1}STUDENTS (hesitantly):
Left, left, right, left...
997
00:53:27,738 --> 00:53:31,971
{\an1}(students disagreeing
and hesitating)
998
00:53:35,271 --> 00:53:38,405
{\an1}(continue hesitantly)
999
00:53:38,438 --> 00:53:41,305
(slowly):
Right, left, right...
1000
00:53:41,338 --> 00:53:45,538
{\an1}(disagreeing and chuckling)
1001
00:53:49,038 --> 00:53:50,971
(responses stop,
students exclaiming softly)
1002
00:53:51,005 --> 00:53:53,605
{\an1}BANAJI:
Okay.
1003
00:53:53,638 --> 00:53:55,005
{\an1}So, as a colleague of ours said,
1004
00:53:55,038 --> 00:53:57,871
{\an1}you don't need a computer
to measure this bias.
1005
00:53:57,905 --> 00:54:00,771
{\an1}A sundial will do.
1006
00:54:00,805 --> 00:54:02,071
(laughter)
1007
00:54:02,105 --> 00:54:03,105
{\an1}And that's because
1008
00:54:03,138 --> 00:54:05,405
{\an1}the effect is palpable.
1009
00:54:05,438 --> 00:54:08,105
{\an1}Now, if you were one of the
first people in the world
1010
00:54:08,138 --> 00:54:10,971
{\an1}to ever take this test
and you made the test,
1011
00:54:11,005 --> 00:54:12,747
{\an1}your first reaction when you
take this test should be,
1012
00:54:12,771 --> 00:54:16,471
{\an1}"Something's screwed up
with the test."
1013
00:54:16,505 --> 00:54:18,005
{\an1}At least that was my view.
1014
00:54:18,038 --> 00:54:20,438
BANAJI:
I thought I could do this.
1015
00:54:20,471 --> 00:54:24,738
{\an1}So I take the test, and it turns
out I can't do it.
1016
00:54:24,771 --> 00:54:28,071
{\an1}When I say, "I can't do it,"
I mean that I can,
1017
00:54:28,105 --> 00:54:30,405
{\an1}but with a lot more time
1018
00:54:30,438 --> 00:54:33,438
{\an1}and more errors in what
I'm doing.
1019
00:54:33,471 --> 00:54:35,305
{\an1}And the feeling you get as you
take this test
1020
00:54:35,338 --> 00:54:39,238
{\an1}is one of utter despair.
(laughs)
1021
00:54:39,271 --> 00:54:42,805
{\an1}I ought to be able to associate
female and male
1022
00:54:42,838 --> 00:54:44,171
{\an1}equally with science.
1023
00:54:44,205 --> 00:54:46,671
I am, after all,
a woman in science.
1024
00:54:46,705 --> 00:54:49,705
{\an1}This should not be so hard
for me to do.
1025
00:54:49,738 --> 00:54:54,238
{\an1}To discover that I cannot do
that,
1026
00:54:54,271 --> 00:54:56,105
{\an1}I think, is profound.
1027
00:54:56,138 --> 00:55:01,105
♪
1028
00:55:01,138 --> 00:55:03,738
HOPKINS:
Recently somebody had showed me
an email they'd received
1029
00:55:03,771 --> 00:55:05,338
{\an1}from a very distinguished
scientist
1030
00:55:05,371 --> 00:55:07,071
{\an7}who happens to be a colleague
of mine...
1031
00:55:07,105 --> 00:55:09,138
{\an7}so I was particularly upset
by it... saying that
1032
00:55:09,171 --> 00:55:11,805
{\an7}he had looked very carefully
and had seen no bias
1033
00:55:11,838 --> 00:55:14,238
{\an7}or prejudice against women
during his entire career,
1034
00:55:14,271 --> 00:55:15,447
{\an1}and therefore he was confident
1035
00:55:15,471 --> 00:55:17,805
{\an1}that such a thing did not exist.
1036
00:55:17,838 --> 00:55:22,105
{\an1}And I guess, you know,
at this point in time, 2019...
1037
00:55:22,138 --> 00:55:24,071
{\an1}this email was a few months
ago...
1038
00:55:24,105 --> 00:55:26,005
{\an1}I just was shocked by this.
1039
00:55:26,038 --> 00:55:27,438
{\an1}These are great scientists.
1040
00:55:27,471 --> 00:55:29,138
{\an1}How can they not know this?
1041
00:55:29,171 --> 00:55:30,438
{\an1}How can they not believe this?
1042
00:55:30,471 --> 00:55:31,947
{\an1}If they know it,
don't they believe it?
1043
00:55:31,971 --> 00:55:33,071
{\an1}This worries me a lot.
1044
00:55:33,105 --> 00:55:37,271
So when I hear stories
like the one you tell,
1045
00:55:37,305 --> 00:55:39,705
{\an1}that your male colleague
believes that
1046
00:55:39,738 --> 00:55:43,038
{\an1}he's never seen it, I have
two kinds of responses to it.
1047
00:55:43,071 --> 00:55:45,471
{\an1}One, I understand that he may be
1048
00:55:45,505 --> 00:55:48,571
truly unaware
and genuinely believing
1049
00:55:48,605 --> 00:55:51,471
that he's looking for it
and just not seeing it.
1050
00:55:51,505 --> 00:55:54,671
{\an1}It's in the nature of this beast
that we're trying to identify.
1051
00:55:54,705 --> 00:55:57,271
It's invisible.
1052
00:55:57,305 --> 00:55:58,571
{\an1}But then I also feel
1053
00:55:58,605 --> 00:56:01,305
that he has no business
saying what he did,
1054
00:56:01,338 --> 00:56:03,905
{\an1}because today, the evidence
1055
00:56:03,938 --> 00:56:07,205
{\an1}is so much more clear
that he need not rely on his own
1056
00:56:07,238 --> 00:56:08,538
{\an1}personal experience.
1057
00:56:08,571 --> 00:56:10,538
{\an1}He just needs to look at
the data.
1058
00:56:10,571 --> 00:56:13,005
{\an1}That's what he'd want us to do
for his science.
1059
00:56:13,038 --> 00:56:14,481
He'd say, "Mahzarin,
whatever you may think
1060
00:56:14,505 --> 00:56:18,705
{\an1}"about turbulence or whatever,
that doesn't matter.
1061
00:56:18,738 --> 00:56:21,505
"That's your...
intuitive experience
1062
00:56:21,538 --> 00:56:22,805
{\an1}"of the physical world.
1063
00:56:22,838 --> 00:56:25,371
{\an1}But you need to know
the research."
1064
00:56:25,405 --> 00:56:26,971
{\an1}And I would say the same to him,
1065
00:56:27,005 --> 00:56:30,005
because the time
has passed now for saying,
1066
00:56:30,038 --> 00:56:31,938
{\an1}"I don't see it anywhere."
1067
00:56:31,971 --> 00:56:35,305
{\an1}And that's why we should be
concerned that anybody
1068
00:56:35,338 --> 00:56:40,138
{\an1}who says it's not happening,
or not happening anymore,
1069
00:56:40,171 --> 00:56:42,405
is just made
1070
00:56:42,438 --> 00:56:44,905
to retract those words,
'cause they can say,
1071
00:56:44,938 --> 00:56:47,571
{\an1}"I, I'm not going to change
my behavior,
1072
00:56:47,605 --> 00:56:49,038
I don't care about it,"
all of that.
1073
00:56:49,071 --> 00:56:50,371
That's their...
1074
00:56:50,405 --> 00:56:53,671
But they cannot say that
the evidence doesn't exist.
1075
00:56:53,705 --> 00:56:58,271
♪
1076
00:56:58,305 --> 00:56:59,971
BANAJI:
My field, broadly speaking,
1077
00:57:00,005 --> 00:57:03,505
{\an1}is discovering that human beings
may not be the people
1078
00:57:03,538 --> 00:57:05,038
{\an1}they think they are.
1079
00:57:05,071 --> 00:57:09,671
{\an1}That they are far more fallible
than they may have thought.
1080
00:57:09,705 --> 00:57:12,438
Who's competent?
1081
00:57:12,471 --> 00:57:14,171
{\an1}Who has potential?
1082
00:57:14,205 --> 00:57:15,905
Who's brilliant?
1083
00:57:15,938 --> 00:57:17,371
{\an1}We find very clear evidence
1084
00:57:17,405 --> 00:57:21,905
{\an1}that men are preferred to women
for the same accomplishments.
1085
00:57:21,938 --> 00:57:25,371
♪
1086
00:57:25,405 --> 00:57:28,871
{\an1}Implicit bias is something that
we all carry in our heads.
1087
00:57:28,905 --> 00:57:29,905
{\an1}How could we not?
1088
00:57:29,938 --> 00:57:32,105
We are creatures
of our environment.
1089
00:57:32,138 --> 00:57:35,038
{\an1}We are creatures who learn.
1090
00:57:35,071 --> 00:57:41,105
♪
1091
00:57:41,138 --> 00:57:43,905
{\an1}When I see a certain
set of patterns,
1092
00:57:43,938 --> 00:57:47,771
{\an1}that impinges on me in some way,
and it leaves a trace.
1093
00:57:47,805 --> 00:57:50,571
{\an1}Bill Nye the Science Guy.
1094
00:57:50,605 --> 00:57:52,638
{\an1}Okay, now let's let that cook
there for a while
1095
00:57:52,671 --> 00:57:54,305
{\an1}and make some more hydrogen...
1096
00:57:54,338 --> 00:57:58,338
BANAJI:
And that trace is now
a part of me.
1097
00:57:58,371 --> 00:58:00,438
{\an1}This is where the power
of technology
1098
00:58:00,471 --> 00:58:03,538
{\an1}actually can be used
to advantage to, in a sense,
1099
00:58:03,571 --> 00:58:07,005
{\an1}program our minds to be what
we want them to have in them.
1100
00:58:13,771 --> 00:58:16,938
(bird squawking)
1101
00:58:16,971 --> 00:58:20,138
BURKS:
Before junior high, I would've
been really hard-pressed
1102
00:58:20,171 --> 00:58:22,571
{\an1}to name a woman scientist.
1103
00:58:22,605 --> 00:58:25,438
{\an1}I would have been extremely
hard-pressed to name
1104
00:58:25,471 --> 00:58:28,338
{\an7}a woman scientist of color.
1105
00:58:28,371 --> 00:58:29,571
{\an7}'Cause I didn't see any.
1106
00:58:29,605 --> 00:58:32,071
{\an1}And science is a way
to view the world.
1107
00:58:32,105 --> 00:58:34,271
{\an1}It's also everywhere.
1108
00:58:34,305 --> 00:58:36,205
{\an1}You can find it anywhere.
1109
00:58:36,238 --> 00:58:39,638
{\an1}Yes, even in "Game of Thrones."
1110
00:58:39,671 --> 00:58:41,781
BURKS:
Beyond the bench, I'm also
a science communicator.
1111
00:58:41,805 --> 00:58:45,938
{\an7}Video games can be complicated,
but they're not rocket science.
1112
00:58:45,971 --> 00:58:48,971
BURKS:
I'll be on podcasts,
in different videos,
1113
00:58:49,005 --> 00:58:50,738
{\an1}and sometimes I get to be
on television.
1114
00:58:50,771 --> 00:58:52,505
{\an7}DIRECTOR:
Roll cameras A, B, and C.
1115
00:58:52,538 --> 00:58:53,538
{\an7}Tape one, take one.
1116
00:58:53,571 --> 00:58:57,038
BURKS:
Representation always matters.
1117
00:58:57,071 --> 00:58:59,038
You know,
there's the whole saying of,
1118
00:58:59,071 --> 00:59:01,171
{\an1}"If you see it, you can be it,"
right?
1119
00:59:01,205 --> 00:59:03,214
{\an1}It's getting better, but there
used to be a time, right,
1120
00:59:03,238 --> 00:59:05,305
{\an1}when you would say, "Okay,
1121
00:59:05,338 --> 00:59:06,705
{\an1}what does a scientist
look like?"
1122
00:59:06,738 --> 00:59:08,314
{\an1}And it was, like, you know,
white guy with crazy hair,
1123
00:59:08,338 --> 00:59:09,938
{\an1}you know, whatever.
1124
00:59:09,971 --> 00:59:12,047
{\an1}And now it's, like, "No, it's a
Black woman with crazy hair."
1125
00:59:12,071 --> 00:59:14,371
{\an1}You can only report your sample,
then, in a significant...
1126
00:59:14,405 --> 00:59:15,571
BURKS:
By its very nature,
1127
00:59:15,605 --> 00:59:19,105
{\an1}science itself should always be
evolving.
1128
00:59:19,138 --> 00:59:21,314
{\an1}Who is asking the questions,
and how they're asking them,
1129
00:59:21,338 --> 00:59:22,305
{\an1}and who gets supported
1130
00:59:22,338 --> 00:59:25,371
{\an1}does determine the field.
1131
00:59:25,405 --> 00:59:28,871
{\an1}The diversity of people
in science
1132
00:59:28,905 --> 00:59:31,838
{\an1}can really set the outcomes.
1133
00:59:31,871 --> 00:59:33,938
{\an1}So that's actually emboldened me
1134
00:59:33,971 --> 00:59:36,471
{\an1}to just be more authentically
myself.
1135
00:59:36,505 --> 00:59:38,271
{\an5}I did it!
BURKS:
Yes!
1136
00:59:38,305 --> 00:59:40,405
{\an1}It took me a while, 'cause Ralph
kept distracting me,
1137
00:59:40,438 --> 00:59:43,471
{\an1}and then Joseph did, and so I'm
going to blame them and not me.
1138
00:59:43,505 --> 00:59:44,971
{\an1}Okay.
(laughing)
1139
00:59:45,005 --> 00:59:46,838
{\an1}So, yeah, this is what I have
right now.
1140
00:59:46,871 --> 00:59:47,981
I have it all prepped
and ready...
1141
00:59:48,005 --> 00:59:49,471
BURKS:
I might as well have
1142
00:59:49,505 --> 00:59:55,171
{\an1}more fun, wear silly clothing,
and talk about zombie chemistry
1143
00:59:55,205 --> 00:59:58,371
{\an1}and wear my hair the way I want.
1144
00:59:58,405 --> 01:00:01,338
{\an1}Not trying to chase
this mythology
1145
01:00:01,371 --> 01:00:04,438
{\an1}of what a scientist is.
1146
01:00:04,471 --> 01:00:09,605
♪
1147
01:00:13,638 --> 01:00:17,671
{\an1}(wind howling, birds twittering)
1148
01:00:17,705 --> 01:00:20,871
{\an8}♪
1149
01:00:20,905 --> 01:00:23,705
{\an1}(knocking on door)
1150
01:00:23,738 --> 01:00:25,071
(door opens)
1151
01:00:25,105 --> 01:00:26,247
{\an5}WILLENBRING:
Hello!
LEWIS: Jane!
1152
01:00:26,271 --> 01:00:27,571
{\an1}Hey, Sylvie.
1153
01:00:27,605 --> 01:00:28,671
Hi!
1154
01:00:28,705 --> 01:00:30,105
{\an1}Good to see you.
1155
01:00:30,138 --> 01:00:31,338
{\an1}Oh, it's been a long time.
1156
01:00:31,371 --> 01:00:33,205
What a great house, oh, my gosh.
1157
01:00:33,238 --> 01:00:34,914
{\an1}Oh, yeah, well,
it's going to be great someday.
1158
01:00:34,938 --> 01:00:37,838
LEWIS:
Do you remember walking back
that time, when you and I
1159
01:00:37,871 --> 01:00:40,271
{\an1}and Brett were out there,
walking back into the wind?
1160
01:00:40,305 --> 01:00:41,238
{\an7}(chuckling):
Yes.
1161
01:00:41,271 --> 01:00:42,438
{\an8}My nose froze, right?
1162
01:00:42,471 --> 01:00:46,938
{\an7}Yeah, and I got frostbite
on my tuchus.
Yeah.
1163
01:00:46,971 --> 01:00:47,971
{\an7}Going to the bathroom.
1164
01:00:48,005 --> 01:00:49,105
{\an7}That's the worst.
Oh, God.
1165
01:00:49,138 --> 01:00:50,105
{\an7}I'd still be going there.
1166
01:00:50,138 --> 01:00:51,514
{\an8}I would still be
a college professor,
1167
01:00:51,538 --> 01:00:53,014
{\an7}and I'd still be going there
if I didn't have to go
1168
01:00:53,038 --> 01:00:53,905
{\an8}to the bathroom.
1169
01:00:53,938 --> 01:00:55,338
{\an8}In Antarctica.
(laughing)
1170
01:00:55,371 --> 01:00:56,738
{\an1}Yeah.
1171
01:00:56,771 --> 01:00:58,405
{\an1}You know, when I was writing my
1172
01:00:58,438 --> 01:01:03,205
{\an1}Title IX complaint,
it was incredibly cathartic.
1173
01:01:03,238 --> 01:01:05,171
{\an3}Mm.
I just, like, wrote it,
1174
01:01:05,205 --> 01:01:06,671
{\an1}and then just started bawling.
1175
01:01:06,705 --> 01:01:09,971
{\an1}When you're writing them
all out, one after another...
1176
01:01:10,005 --> 01:01:11,305
Yeah.
You know.
1177
01:01:11,338 --> 01:01:12,614
{\an1}It's, like, yeah, that happened,
1178
01:01:12,638 --> 01:01:14,281
{\an1}and then that happened,
and then that happened.
1179
01:01:14,305 --> 01:01:16,871
{\an1}And you start thinking, like,
"How did this even..."
1180
01:01:16,905 --> 01:01:18,971
And it's, like,
"Well, they were different days,
1181
01:01:19,005 --> 01:01:23,405
{\an1}and, you know, I had thought it
would get better."
1182
01:01:23,438 --> 01:01:26,205
{\an5}Yeah.
And you know, you have,
like, this whole mindset of,
1183
01:01:26,238 --> 01:01:28,505
{\an1}like, hoping for the best,
even though you really think
1184
01:01:28,538 --> 01:01:30,605
{\an4}that it's probably not going
to go well.
Mm-hmm.
1185
01:01:30,638 --> 01:01:32,738
{\an1}I never knew how much
it bothered you.
1186
01:01:32,771 --> 01:01:34,171
I didn't know.
1187
01:01:34,205 --> 01:01:38,171
{\an1}You didn't show it to me,
so I didn't know.
1188
01:01:38,205 --> 01:01:40,271
{\an1}I mean, I knew he was being
a complete dick to you,
1189
01:01:40,305 --> 01:01:41,914
{\an1}but I didn't know that it was
getting to you.
1190
01:01:41,938 --> 01:01:42,905
{\an1}Yeah.
1191
01:01:42,938 --> 01:01:44,371
{\an1}It was hard to navigate.
1192
01:01:44,405 --> 01:01:45,481
Like, I knew, I mean, it's...
1193
01:01:45,505 --> 01:01:46,738
{\an1}Obviously, it was an issue.
1194
01:01:46,771 --> 01:01:48,738
{\an1}But it just was, like,
"Okay, well, Jane's
1195
01:01:48,771 --> 01:01:51,905
{\an1}kind of dealing with it,"
and whatever.
1196
01:01:51,938 --> 01:01:55,605
{\an1}I do sort of have a tough cookie
sort of bravado about me.
1197
01:01:55,638 --> 01:01:57,971
I mean, I should have
seen it more.
1198
01:01:58,005 --> 01:02:01,305
{\an8}I feel a major regret,
'cause I didn't help.
1199
01:02:01,338 --> 01:02:03,505
{\an8}When I wrote that out,
I was, like,
1200
01:02:03,538 --> 01:02:04,614
{\an8}"God,
the pattern is so clear!"
1201
01:02:04,638 --> 01:02:06,038
{\an8}Some of the things
that you tell me
1202
01:02:06,071 --> 01:02:07,511
{\an8}and that I've heard
from other women,
1203
01:02:07,538 --> 01:02:08,905
{\an7}I just... it's unfathomable.
1204
01:02:08,938 --> 01:02:09,905
{\an8}I didn't know.
1205
01:02:09,938 --> 01:02:11,471
{\an8}And most of the men that I know,
1206
01:02:11,505 --> 01:02:12,438
{\an7}all these guys that I went
1207
01:02:12,471 --> 01:02:13,871
{\an8}to Antarctica with and all my
1208
01:02:13,905 --> 01:02:15,571
{\an8}professor friends,
whatever...
Mm-hmm.
1209
01:02:15,605 --> 01:02:19,105
{\an8}We... they would not
do that, right?
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
1210
01:02:19,138 --> 01:02:20,805
{\an8}So, when you hear these stories,
1211
01:02:20,838 --> 01:02:22,371
{\an7}you're just, like, "What?"
1212
01:02:22,405 --> 01:02:23,638
{\an8}Right.
1213
01:02:23,671 --> 01:02:24,938
{\an8}I'll tell you a story.
1214
01:02:24,971 --> 01:02:25,938
{\an8}I think I've told you
this before.
1215
01:02:25,971 --> 01:02:27,238
{\an8}So, I was in Europe
1216
01:02:27,271 --> 01:02:28,938
{\an8}and I was at this
1217
01:02:28,971 --> 01:02:31,505
{\an4}glacial conference thing,
this EU-run thing.
Yeah.
1218
01:02:31,538 --> 01:02:33,505
With a whole bunch of students,
1219
01:02:33,538 --> 01:02:35,371
and there was this old
glaciologist there.
1220
01:02:35,405 --> 01:02:36,614
{\an1}He's, like, about 60 years old.
1221
01:02:36,638 --> 01:02:38,538
Anyway, we were all out
1222
01:02:38,571 --> 01:02:41,371
at the... in Italy,
and we're all out at the bar.
1223
01:02:41,405 --> 01:02:43,371
{\an1}He takes his hotel room key,
1224
01:02:43,405 --> 01:02:45,905
and he starts just going
down the line.
1225
01:02:45,938 --> 01:02:47,614
{\an1}And you couldn't really hear
what he was saying,
1226
01:02:47,638 --> 01:02:49,481
but he would go up to
a female student and be, like...
1227
01:02:49,505 --> 01:02:51,338
(imitating indistinct
conversation)
1228
01:02:51,371 --> 01:02:53,238
And then he would
put the key on the table,
1229
01:02:53,271 --> 01:02:56,071
{\an1}and they would all be, like,
"Yeah, yeah."
1230
01:02:56,105 --> 01:02:58,671
{\an4}And they'd just flick the key
right back to him.
Mm-hmm.
1231
01:02:58,705 --> 01:03:00,171
A couple of minutes later,
1232
01:03:00,205 --> 01:03:02,347
{\an1}he would sit down at the next
table with a, with a girl,
1233
01:03:02,371 --> 01:03:05,071
{\an1}and he'd be, like, "Yeah,
so how are you doing?"
1234
01:03:05,105 --> 01:03:06,571
{\an1}Key goes out on the table,
1235
01:03:06,605 --> 01:03:08,405
and every time, the girl
just was, like...
1236
01:03:08,438 --> 01:03:09,838
(scoffing): "Yeah."
1237
01:03:09,871 --> 01:03:11,214
(chuckling):
Slaps it right back at him.
1238
01:03:11,238 --> 01:03:12,538
But it didn't deter him at all,
1239
01:03:12,571 --> 01:03:14,405
and he just went
to the next one, right?
1240
01:03:14,438 --> 01:03:15,538
{\an1}Mm-hmm.
1241
01:03:15,571 --> 01:03:18,405
And he's obviously,
like, lecherous
1242
01:03:18,438 --> 01:03:20,271
{\an1}and all that kind of stuff.
1243
01:03:20,305 --> 01:03:23,171
{\an1}But I always, I was always
impressed with those women,
1244
01:03:23,205 --> 01:03:26,838
that they didn't seem
to take any...
1245
01:03:26,871 --> 01:03:28,738
They didn't take it in
on themselves.
1246
01:03:28,771 --> 01:03:29,771
They were just, like,
1247
01:03:29,805 --> 01:03:31,305
"Yeah, no, no, thanks."
1248
01:03:31,338 --> 01:03:32,538
{\an1}Right, but it's also, like,
1249
01:03:32,571 --> 01:03:37,205
{\an1}bad to, like, sort of
be proud of them for,
1250
01:03:37,238 --> 01:03:40,638
{\an1}like, just laughing it off
and not making a big scene
1251
01:03:40,671 --> 01:03:43,938
{\an1}about it, because, really,
1252
01:03:43,971 --> 01:03:46,938
{\an4}someone should do that.
Do you think
they should have?
1253
01:03:46,971 --> 01:03:49,871
But what we have
is a selection bias of,
1254
01:03:49,905 --> 01:03:52,438
{\an1}all of the people
who make a big scene like that
1255
01:03:52,471 --> 01:03:55,105
{\an1}are kicked out of science.
1256
01:03:55,138 --> 01:03:56,681
{\an1}And so it's only the people who,
like...
1257
01:03:56,705 --> 01:03:57,971
(fake laughing)
1258
01:03:58,005 --> 01:04:02,138
{\an1}...and push the card away
that actually are able to,
1259
01:04:02,171 --> 01:04:03,771
{\an1}like, be the women who stay.
1260
01:04:03,805 --> 01:04:05,571
I see, yeah.
1261
01:04:05,605 --> 01:04:09,071
{\an1}Imagine getting hit on
at a conference, and then,
1262
01:04:09,105 --> 01:04:11,305
{\an1}like, someone else says,
"Hey, do you want to talk about
1263
01:04:11,338 --> 01:04:16,238
{\an1}your poster over a beer
across the street?"
1264
01:04:16,271 --> 01:04:17,905
{\an1}You think nothing of it, right?
1265
01:04:17,938 --> 01:04:20,705
{\an1}You're, like, "I'll try to
ignore that being hit on
1266
01:04:20,738 --> 01:04:22,171
{\an1}"earlier in the day.
1267
01:04:22,205 --> 01:04:25,071
{\an1}"I'll go across the street,
have a beer with this, you know,
1268
01:04:25,105 --> 01:04:26,738
big-name guy."
1269
01:04:26,771 --> 01:04:29,438
{\an1}And then you go across
the street,
1270
01:04:29,471 --> 01:04:31,305
{\an1}and you have a beer
with this guy,
1271
01:04:31,338 --> 01:04:34,471
{\an1}and then he hits on you, too.
1272
01:04:34,505 --> 01:04:40,071
{\an1}And then you walk back
to your room with someone who,
1273
01:04:40,105 --> 01:04:43,205
{\an1}you know, was your lab mate,
and they say,
1274
01:04:43,238 --> 01:04:44,971
{\an1}"What did you think he wanted?
1275
01:04:45,005 --> 01:04:46,371
{\an1}"Do you think he was interested
1276
01:04:46,405 --> 01:04:48,471
{\an1}in talking about science
with you?"
1277
01:04:48,505 --> 01:04:50,638
(laughs)
1278
01:04:50,671 --> 01:04:51,938
{\an1}How does that make you feel?
1279
01:04:51,971 --> 01:04:53,271
You know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1280
01:04:53,305 --> 01:04:57,938
{\an1}And then you actually
have someone who, you know,
1281
01:04:57,971 --> 01:05:01,238
{\an1}like, is, behaves completely
professionally,
1282
01:05:01,271 --> 01:05:03,071
{\an1}values your opinion.
1283
01:05:03,105 --> 01:05:05,971
{\an1}And then you have
some success in life,
1284
01:05:06,005 --> 01:05:08,838
{\an1}and then that same lab mate
is, like,
1285
01:05:08,871 --> 01:05:10,271
{\an1}"Oh, I know why she got that.
1286
01:05:10,305 --> 01:05:14,238
{\an1}"She had a beer with the guy,
and then she probably
1287
01:05:14,271 --> 01:05:16,405
{\an1}slept with him later on
that night."
1288
01:05:16,438 --> 01:05:19,538
{\an1}And then, even though
nothing happened,
1289
01:05:19,571 --> 01:05:23,471
{\an1}you've been hit on twice,
you didn't do anything wrong,
1290
01:05:23,505 --> 01:05:26,971
{\an1}and now you have this reputation
for having some success
1291
01:05:27,005 --> 01:05:31,005
{\an1}because you were seen
having a beer with someone.
1292
01:05:31,038 --> 01:05:34,738
{\an1}That's the kind of crap that,
like, that second group
1293
01:05:34,771 --> 01:05:37,738
of people does.
1294
01:05:37,771 --> 01:05:40,005
♪
1295
01:05:40,038 --> 01:05:43,371
{\an1}It's sort of, like, what is it?
1296
01:05:43,405 --> 01:05:46,571
{\an1}A ton of feathers
is still a ton.
1297
01:05:51,271 --> 01:05:56,405
♪
1298
01:06:06,971 --> 01:06:11,205
{\an1}(projector clicking)
1299
01:06:11,238 --> 01:06:15,005
♪
1300
01:06:15,038 --> 01:06:18,738
LEWIS:
Looking back on it, these
really, really capable women
1301
01:06:18,771 --> 01:06:23,371
{\an1}are walking into a headwind
that I didn't have.
1302
01:06:23,405 --> 01:06:27,538
{\an1}And sometimes they come up
against a real brick wall
1303
01:06:27,571 --> 01:06:33,205
{\an1}in a guy like David Marchant.
1304
01:06:33,238 --> 01:06:35,205
♪
1305
01:06:35,238 --> 01:06:38,305
{\an1}You know, I saw that Dave
was taking some special joy
1306
01:06:38,338 --> 01:06:40,905
{\an1}in tormenting her,
1307
01:06:40,938 --> 01:06:42,871
{\an1}calling her "Crazy Jane"
all the time.
1308
01:06:42,905 --> 01:06:44,405
{\an1}"Hey, Crazy Jane, Crazy Jane."
1309
01:06:44,438 --> 01:06:47,605
{\an1}And I think one of the reasons
that he got really into it
1310
01:06:47,638 --> 01:06:50,605
{\an1}is that she really was good
at not showing
1311
01:06:50,638 --> 01:06:51,678
{\an1}that it was bothering her.
1312
01:06:51,705 --> 01:06:54,838
{\an1}So then he, he turned the dial
up.
1313
01:06:54,871 --> 01:06:56,471
Didn't seem like
it bothered her.
1314
01:06:56,505 --> 01:06:57,971
{\an1}He turned the dial up.
1315
01:06:58,005 --> 01:06:59,438
Didn't seem like
it bothered her.
1316
01:06:59,471 --> 01:07:03,571
{\an1}And so, I'll be honest,
I honestly did not...
1317
01:07:03,605 --> 01:07:04,947
{\an1}I mean, I knew he was being
a dick.
1318
01:07:04,971 --> 01:07:07,938
{\an1}I knew it, but it just didn't
seem to bother her.
1319
01:07:07,971 --> 01:07:10,605
{\an1}She seemed to just laugh it off.
1320
01:07:13,871 --> 01:07:16,938
{\an1}With the Dave and Jane thing,
it comes back to me.
1321
01:07:16,971 --> 01:07:18,871
{\an1}Many, many other times
in my life,
1322
01:07:18,905 --> 01:07:21,405
{\an1}I have jumped to the defense
of the weaker person.
1323
01:07:21,438 --> 01:07:22,705
But with Jane,
1324
01:07:22,738 --> 01:07:25,405
I didn't see it,
and it's just pure stupidity.
1325
01:07:25,438 --> 01:07:28,138
It was pure...
1326
01:07:28,171 --> 01:07:31,105
{\an1}I just didn't open my eyes
to what was going on.
1327
01:07:31,138 --> 01:07:36,271
♪
1328
01:08:18,705 --> 01:08:20,905
♪
1329
01:08:20,938 --> 01:08:24,338
AZEEN GHORAYSHI:
I have reported on
sexual harassment
1330
01:08:24,371 --> 01:08:26,905
{\an1}in the sciences since 2015.
1331
01:08:26,938 --> 01:08:29,738
{\an1}The frustration with inaction
is, is why
1332
01:08:29,771 --> 01:08:32,605
{\an7}we saw this wave of women
coming forward
1333
01:08:32,638 --> 01:08:35,471
{\an7}to publicize their stories.
1334
01:08:35,505 --> 01:08:38,205
{\an1}I don't think that most people's
first option is to,
1335
01:08:38,238 --> 01:08:40,771
{\an1}you know, go to a reporter
and talk about the problems
1336
01:08:40,805 --> 01:08:42,871
they dealt with
as a graduate student, you know?
1337
01:08:42,905 --> 01:08:46,171
{\an1}I think that very much happened
as a result of
1338
01:08:46,205 --> 01:08:49,805
{\an1}a lot of other failures
in the, along the way.
1339
01:08:49,838 --> 01:08:54,138
{\an1}Many of the women that I've
spoken to in the stories
1340
01:08:54,171 --> 01:08:55,638
{\an1}that we've reported here
1341
01:08:55,671 --> 01:08:58,405
{\an1}about sexual harassment
have left the field.
1342
01:08:58,438 --> 01:09:00,571
{\an1}And they have said very clearly
that this is why
1343
01:09:00,605 --> 01:09:01,871
{\an1}they've left the field.
1344
01:09:01,905 --> 01:09:05,238
{\an1}That it was either
the experience itself,
1345
01:09:05,271 --> 01:09:09,838
{\an1}or it was the process of trying
to do anything about it
1346
01:09:09,871 --> 01:09:12,438
{\an1}that eventually made them throw
their hands up and be, like,
1347
01:09:12,471 --> 01:09:13,471
"Screw it.
1348
01:09:13,505 --> 01:09:14,805
"This is not...
1349
01:09:14,838 --> 01:09:16,305
{\an1}I don't have to deal with this."
1350
01:09:16,338 --> 01:09:19,771
♪
1351
01:09:19,805 --> 01:09:21,271
{\an1}(engines roaring)
1352
01:09:21,305 --> 01:09:24,005
REPORTER:
Liftoff of America's
first space shuttle.
1353
01:09:24,038 --> 01:09:26,271
{\an1}And the shuttle has cleared
the tower.
1354
01:09:26,305 --> 01:09:30,638
WOMAN:
I was seven when the space
shuttle first went up.
1355
01:09:30,671 --> 01:09:32,338
{\an1}I decided right then and there
1356
01:09:32,371 --> 01:09:34,371
{\an1}that I wanted to be
an astronaut.
1357
01:09:34,405 --> 01:09:37,505
{\an1}I don't think I realized
how obsessive I was about it.
1358
01:09:37,538 --> 01:09:40,605
{\an1}It turns out most people
didn't spend their nights
1359
01:09:40,638 --> 01:09:44,705
{\an1}listening to the same recordings
of all the Apollo missions,
1360
01:09:44,738 --> 01:09:45,805
{\an1}you know, time after time.
1361
01:09:45,838 --> 01:09:47,071
ASTRONAUT:
2,500 feet.
1362
01:09:47,105 --> 01:09:48,405
MAN:
Clear.
1363
01:09:48,438 --> 01:09:51,105
WOMAN:
I just also loved science
in college.
1364
01:09:51,138 --> 01:09:53,005
I wanted to take
all the sciences, which I did,
1365
01:09:53,038 --> 01:09:57,238
{\an1}like, took a class in
every science along the way.
1366
01:09:57,271 --> 01:09:58,905
{\an1}I enjoyed a lot of
the other sciences,
1367
01:09:58,938 --> 01:10:00,805
{\an1}but geology was my passion.
1368
01:10:00,838 --> 01:10:03,805
{\an1}(cheers and applause)
1369
01:10:03,838 --> 01:10:06,071
{\an1}One of the unspoken rules
was that you needed to have
1370
01:10:06,105 --> 01:10:08,438
{\an1}either a PhD or be coming out of
1371
01:10:08,471 --> 01:10:10,371
{\an1}the military as a pilot.
1372
01:10:10,405 --> 01:10:15,138
{\an1}And so that's what put me on the
track of, "Must get my PhD."
1373
01:10:15,171 --> 01:10:18,971
PILOT:
Two, one, nose gear is ten feet.
1374
01:10:19,005 --> 01:10:20,838
WOMAN:
When I got the call back
from B.U.,
1375
01:10:20,871 --> 01:10:22,838
{\an1}they said they would love
to have me.
1376
01:10:22,871 --> 01:10:25,638
I was admitted,
and I could work in the program
1377
01:10:25,671 --> 01:10:29,038
{\an1}that I had applied to, but they
also had this new professor
1378
01:10:29,071 --> 01:10:30,271
{\an1}who had just come in
1379
01:10:30,305 --> 01:10:35,471
{\an1}and was going to be doing
Antarctic work.
1380
01:10:35,505 --> 01:10:39,438
{\an1}So I was the first grad student
of Dave Marchant.
1381
01:10:39,471 --> 01:10:41,671
(traffic noise)
1382
01:10:41,705 --> 01:10:43,605
{\an1}So I arrived in September.
1383
01:10:43,638 --> 01:10:44,771
{\an1}In my second week,
1384
01:10:44,805 --> 01:10:47,571
{\an1}Dave told me that he did not
want a woman
1385
01:10:47,605 --> 01:10:50,338
{\an1}as a graduate student.
1386
01:10:50,371 --> 01:10:52,571
{\an1}I said, "I don't have
a gender-neutral name,
1387
01:10:52,605 --> 01:10:56,871
{\an1}so it was clear that I was
a woman when I was applying."
1388
01:10:56,905 --> 01:10:59,105
{\an1}I can't remember exactly
what he said,
1389
01:10:59,138 --> 01:11:00,681
{\an1}but it was more or less
that the department
1390
01:11:00,705 --> 01:11:02,205
{\an1}had foisted me upon him.
1391
01:11:02,238 --> 01:11:07,138
{\an1}My experience when I was in
Boston
1392
01:11:07,171 --> 01:11:10,138
{\an1}was fairly atrocious,
1393
01:11:10,171 --> 01:11:12,338
{\an1}but I really wasn't
mentally prepared
1394
01:11:12,371 --> 01:11:15,771
{\an1}for what would happen when I
got down into Antarctica.
1395
01:11:15,805 --> 01:11:18,971
♪
1396
01:11:19,005 --> 01:11:23,705
{\an7}It was bullying from day one.
1397
01:11:23,738 --> 01:11:25,705
{\an7}He was using epithets
all the time,
1398
01:11:25,738 --> 01:11:28,071
{\an1}"whore," "bitch."
1399
01:11:28,105 --> 01:11:30,047
{\an1}And then I remember the first
time he called me (bleep).
1400
01:11:30,071 --> 01:11:34,671
{\an1}Later on, he would tell me that
he did not believe that women
1401
01:11:34,705 --> 01:11:36,238
{\an1}should be on the ice
in Antarctica,
1402
01:11:36,271 --> 01:11:40,871
{\an1}and we're altering the science
on the ice for worse.
1403
01:11:40,905 --> 01:11:42,671
♪
1404
01:11:42,705 --> 01:11:45,471
{\an1}In order to do scientific work
down in Antarctica,
1405
01:11:45,505 --> 01:11:47,271
{\an1}you need to apply for funding
1406
01:11:47,305 --> 01:11:50,705
{\an1}through the National Science
Foundation Polar Programs.
1407
01:11:50,738 --> 01:11:53,171
{\an1}So there aren't alternate
sources for funding
1408
01:11:53,205 --> 01:11:54,705
{\an1}if you want to do work there.
1409
01:11:54,738 --> 01:11:58,738
{\an1}And part of how Dave
derived his authority
1410
01:11:58,771 --> 01:12:02,271
{\an1}was because he helped to decide
who got the funding.
1411
01:12:02,305 --> 01:12:04,771
♪
1412
01:12:04,805 --> 01:12:07,505
{\an1}It was the middle of the summer
in Antarctica,
1413
01:12:07,538 --> 01:12:09,138
{\an1}and we walked outside
of the camp
1414
01:12:09,171 --> 01:12:11,205
{\an1}because he indicated
that he had something
1415
01:12:11,238 --> 01:12:14,905
{\an1}that he wanted to tell me.
1416
01:12:14,938 --> 01:12:18,871
{\an1}He told me that he had decided
that I would have no future
1417
01:12:18,905 --> 01:12:21,205
{\an1}in, in any polar studies,
1418
01:12:21,238 --> 01:12:25,971
{\an1}and that they would make sure
that I got no funding.
1419
01:12:26,005 --> 01:12:27,838
My whole world
was disintegrating,
1420
01:12:27,871 --> 01:12:31,605
{\an1}and then he, like, grinned at
me, and walked off.
1421
01:12:31,638 --> 01:12:35,738
{\an1}And when we got back, I went to
the chair of the department
1422
01:12:35,771 --> 01:12:38,505
{\an1}at the time, and explained
all the circumstances.
1423
01:12:38,538 --> 01:12:40,038
{\an1}And it was a woman.
1424
01:12:40,071 --> 01:12:44,171
{\an1}She was sitting behind a desk
in a fairly darkened room,
1425
01:12:44,205 --> 01:12:46,071
{\an1}and it was a big wooden desk.
1426
01:12:46,105 --> 01:12:50,105
{\an1}She said, "You can go through
this, but Dr. Marchant
1427
01:12:50,138 --> 01:12:51,305
{\an1}"has a sterling reputation,
1428
01:12:51,338 --> 01:12:54,138
{\an1}"brings a lot of money
into this department,
1429
01:12:54,171 --> 01:12:56,305
{\an1}"and wouldn't it just be easier
if you just finished
1430
01:12:56,338 --> 01:12:59,305
{\an1}a master's degree and left?"
1431
01:12:59,338 --> 01:13:03,405
{\an1}And I was floored.
1432
01:13:03,438 --> 01:13:08,638
{\an1}The department judged that
running one woman out of science
1433
01:13:08,671 --> 01:13:13,738
{\an1}was much less of a hassle
than running a man out.
1434
01:13:15,138 --> 01:13:19,271
{\an7}Leaving without a PhD meant not
applying to be an astronaut.
1435
01:13:19,305 --> 01:13:22,471
{\an7}And it was the end of the dream
that I had had.
1436
01:13:22,505 --> 01:13:23,505
{\an1}Who knows if I'd ever
1437
01:13:23,538 --> 01:13:26,271
{\an1}actually have become
an astronaut?
1438
01:13:26,305 --> 01:13:28,671
{\an1}But, if it was going to end,
1439
01:13:28,705 --> 01:13:32,971
{\an1}I would have wanted it to end
on my terms.
1440
01:13:42,405 --> 01:13:45,138
{\an8}HOPKINS:
For me, it was a conflict
that was never to be resolved,
1441
01:13:45,171 --> 01:13:48,571
{\an7}even though I loved the science
1442
01:13:48,605 --> 01:13:50,005
{\an7}that was happening.
1443
01:13:50,038 --> 01:13:52,705
{\an7}So I just couldn't do it
any longer.
1444
01:13:52,738 --> 01:13:55,005
{\an7}I was about 50, and I thought,
1445
01:13:55,038 --> 01:13:57,005
{\an7}"There are two choices here,
either..."
1446
01:13:57,038 --> 01:14:00,871
{\an7}I could retire, but I'm not rich
enough to retire,
1447
01:14:00,905 --> 01:14:02,405
{\an7}and never work again.
1448
01:14:02,438 --> 01:14:04,547
{\an7}There's no other thing I'd
rather do outside of science.
1449
01:14:04,571 --> 01:14:05,771
{\an8}I just loved it.
1450
01:14:05,805 --> 01:14:08,771
{\an7}Somehow, I... this is worth
fighting for.
1451
01:14:08,805 --> 01:14:11,171
{\an7}I'm going to fight enough
that I can go in the lab
1452
01:14:11,205 --> 01:14:13,205
{\an1}and do an experiment,
1453
01:14:13,238 --> 01:14:16,371
{\an1}and somebody's not going to come
and make it impossible for me
1454
01:14:16,405 --> 01:14:18,338
{\an1}to do it, or ruin it after I
have done it,
1455
01:14:18,371 --> 01:14:20,505
{\an1}or take all the credit for it
once it's done,
1456
01:14:20,538 --> 01:14:22,038
{\an1}or make sure that
something bad...
1457
01:14:22,071 --> 01:14:25,838
{\an1}I'm going to fight for that
because I just have to do this.
1458
01:14:25,871 --> 01:14:28,071
{\an1}I want to be a scientist.
1459
01:14:28,105 --> 01:14:33,771
{\an1}If you believe that passion
for science, ability in science
1460
01:14:33,805 --> 01:14:37,671
{\an1}is evenly distributed
among the sexes,
1461
01:14:37,705 --> 01:14:38,971
{\an1}if you don't have women,
1462
01:14:39,005 --> 01:14:41,938
you've lost half
the best people.
1463
01:14:41,971 --> 01:14:47,105
♪
1464
01:14:50,505 --> 01:14:54,538
{\an1}Can we really afford to lose
those top scientists?
1465
01:14:54,571 --> 01:14:59,705
♪
1466
01:15:02,771 --> 01:15:05,571
BANAJI:
Often, people talk about
the cost to women.
1467
01:15:05,605 --> 01:15:07,481
{\an1}For now, I want to put that
aside and just talk about
1468
01:15:07,505 --> 01:15:09,238
{\an1}the cost to the world
of science.
1469
01:15:09,271 --> 01:15:11,838
{\an1}I mean, how much are we costing
ourselves?
1470
01:15:11,871 --> 01:15:16,538
{\an1}How many great discoveries
have just been lost
1471
01:15:16,571 --> 01:15:20,838
{\an7}to us because we didn't have the
eyes to see?
1472
01:15:25,605 --> 01:15:28,638
REPORTER:
A study of the Massachusetts
Institute of Technology
1473
01:15:28,671 --> 01:15:31,705
was launched
by female faculty members
1474
01:15:31,738 --> 01:15:33,271
{\an1}fed up with unequal treatment.
1475
01:15:33,305 --> 01:15:35,814
REPORTER:
At M.I.T., female professors
have been learning lessons
1476
01:15:35,838 --> 01:15:36,805
the hard way.
1477
01:15:36,838 --> 01:15:38,271
{\an1}When the women compared notes,
1478
01:15:38,305 --> 01:15:40,738
{\an1}they found they all had
similar problems.
1479
01:15:40,771 --> 01:15:43,171
That triggered
a five-year study.
1480
01:15:43,205 --> 01:15:45,671
{\an1}What they found were
salary inequities,
1481
01:15:45,705 --> 01:15:47,105
{\an1}lack of advancement...
1482
01:15:47,138 --> 01:15:48,771
McNUTT:
As the evidence
started coming in,
1483
01:15:48,805 --> 01:15:54,471
{\an1}it was really clear that
there were major discrepancies.
1484
01:15:54,505 --> 01:15:58,471
CEYER:
On the average,
the laboratory space for women
1485
01:15:58,505 --> 01:16:03,871
{\an1}was significantly less than
the laboratory space for men,
1486
01:16:03,905 --> 01:16:06,938
{\an7}and it was clear that the women
1487
01:16:06,971 --> 01:16:10,638
{\an7}were paid a lower salary
than the men.
1488
01:16:10,671 --> 01:16:15,138
ROYDEN:
M.I.T. was losing
female faculty hires
1489
01:16:15,171 --> 01:16:16,505
{\an1}because of the childcare issue.
1490
01:16:16,538 --> 01:16:22,105
{\an1}There was no childcare anywhere
in the central campus.
1491
01:16:22,138 --> 01:16:27,138
{\an7}I think it took all of that to
make it comprehensible story.
1492
01:16:27,171 --> 01:16:30,071
♪
1493
01:16:30,105 --> 01:16:33,105
{\an1}It came to be known
as the M.I.T. Report.
1494
01:16:33,138 --> 01:16:37,205
{\an1}It was just a summary of what
we'd done with some data in it.
1495
01:16:37,238 --> 01:16:40,771
♪
1496
01:16:40,805 --> 01:16:42,614
{\an1}I said, "We've got to ask
Chuck Vest if he'd like to
1497
01:16:42,638 --> 01:16:44,338
{\an1}"put a comment to go
with the report.
1498
01:16:44,371 --> 01:16:46,805
{\an1}We don't want anyone to think
that we blindsided them."
1499
01:16:46,838 --> 01:16:51,971
♪
1500
01:16:58,938 --> 01:17:02,305
ROBERT BROWN:
It was a long time
between the full report
1501
01:17:02,338 --> 01:17:04,405
{\an1}and then the decision.
1502
01:17:04,438 --> 01:17:06,305
{\an1}I would think it's almost
months.
1503
01:17:06,338 --> 01:17:08,905
{\an1}Definitely weeks.
1504
01:17:08,938 --> 01:17:11,805
{\an1}It was very complicated
for the university.
1505
01:17:11,838 --> 01:17:13,414
{\an1}You have to, I think,
put this whole thing
1506
01:17:13,438 --> 01:17:15,338
{\an1}in the context of a university
1507
01:17:15,371 --> 01:17:19,705
{\an7}that really prided itself
on being a meritocracy.
1508
01:17:19,738 --> 01:17:21,205
♪
1509
01:17:21,238 --> 01:17:23,838
HOPKINS:
You thought no president
of any university
1510
01:17:23,871 --> 01:17:25,505
{\an1}would ever understand,
1511
01:17:25,538 --> 01:17:27,305
{\an1}much less acknowledge publicly.
1512
01:17:27,338 --> 01:17:33,405
{\an1}He struggled with exactly
the criticism that I think
1513
01:17:33,438 --> 01:17:34,871
{\an1}everyone knew we would get.
1514
01:17:34,905 --> 01:17:36,405
♪
1515
01:17:36,438 --> 01:17:40,505
HOPKINS:
But then something really
amazing happened.
1516
01:17:40,538 --> 01:17:42,738
{\an1}He endorsed the report.
1517
01:17:42,771 --> 01:17:44,614
{\an1}He wrote this comment,
which really is, I think,
1518
01:17:44,638 --> 01:17:47,338
{\an1}the reason the M.I.T. Report
became so well-known.
1519
01:17:47,371 --> 01:17:48,738
{\an1}"I have always believed
1520
01:17:48,771 --> 01:17:50,805
{\an1}"that contemporary gender
discrimination
1521
01:17:50,838 --> 01:17:55,705
{\an1}"within universities is part
reality and part perception,
1522
01:17:55,738 --> 01:17:59,571
{\an1}"but I now understand
that reality is by far
1523
01:17:59,605 --> 01:18:03,171
the greater part
of the balance."
1524
01:18:03,205 --> 01:18:06,871
CEYER:
He came out and said,
"There has been discrimination,
1525
01:18:06,905 --> 01:18:08,905
{\an1}"and there has been bias,
1526
01:18:08,938 --> 01:18:13,705
{\an1}and we're going to go forward
and rectify this."
1527
01:18:13,738 --> 01:18:16,171
{\an1}What the report made us do
is own the problem.
1528
01:18:16,205 --> 01:18:21,005
CEYER:
Because it was based on data,
1529
01:18:21,038 --> 01:18:22,771
{\an1}you can't refute it.
1530
01:18:22,805 --> 01:18:25,271
♪
1531
01:18:25,305 --> 01:18:28,738
BROWN:
It was a ripple that, you could
feel that resonance,
1532
01:18:28,771 --> 01:18:31,138
{\an1}and that's because it was real.
1533
01:18:31,171 --> 01:18:33,638
CEYER:
We all were amazed
at the response.
1534
01:18:33,671 --> 01:18:36,271
HOPKINS:
After the M.I.T. Report,
I was invited to give
1535
01:18:36,305 --> 01:18:38,771
so many talks,
and I went around the country,
1536
01:18:38,805 --> 01:18:40,671
{\an1}and I met so many women
1537
01:18:40,705 --> 01:18:42,605
{\an1}who had put so much time
into this problem.
1538
01:18:42,638 --> 01:18:47,038
McNUTT:
Women everywhere could
go to their department heads,
1539
01:18:47,071 --> 01:18:48,305
{\an1}to their provosts,
1540
01:18:48,338 --> 01:18:51,005
{\an8}and say,
"Why are we not doing this?"
1541
01:18:51,038 --> 01:18:52,505
{\an8}And they did.
1542
01:19:10,371 --> 01:19:15,305
BHATIA:
The last 20 years for me
have been
1543
01:19:15,338 --> 01:19:20,071
{\an1}sort of a slow continuous
change.
1544
01:19:20,105 --> 01:19:22,138
{\an1}I was a graduate student
at M.I.T. in the '90s.
1545
01:19:22,171 --> 01:19:25,271
{\an1}I was one of very few women.
1546
01:19:25,305 --> 01:19:28,771
{\an1}And then when I came back to be
on the faculty of 2005,
1547
01:19:28,805 --> 01:19:30,005
{\an7}every step of the way,
1548
01:19:30,038 --> 01:19:32,171
{\an7}someone has been quietly
watching my salary,
1549
01:19:32,205 --> 01:19:34,471
{\an7}making sure that it was equal.
1550
01:19:34,505 --> 01:19:37,771
{\an1}So I have benefited from
the work that they did.
1551
01:19:37,805 --> 01:19:41,538
{\an1}And I try to do, you know,
that for the next generation.
1552
01:19:43,705 --> 01:19:48,471
BROWN:
It was a turning point for me
as a university administrator.
1553
01:19:48,505 --> 01:19:53,105
{\an1}I remember going to a meeting
of provosts not long after that
1554
01:19:53,138 --> 01:19:55,705
{\an1}and getting browbeat by a number
of provosts...
1555
01:19:55,738 --> 01:19:58,005
{\an1}I'm not going to say who...
1556
01:19:58,038 --> 01:20:01,238
Who said,
"It's not in my institution."
1557
01:20:03,538 --> 01:20:04,771
{\an1}There still is bias.
1558
01:20:04,805 --> 01:20:08,105
{\an1}People still have implicit bias
and explicit bias.
1559
01:20:08,138 --> 01:20:11,138
{\an1}You know, these are
tough societal problems,
1560
01:20:11,171 --> 01:20:13,738
{\an1}and you can't lose the energy,
1561
01:20:13,771 --> 01:20:18,138
{\an1}because you won't solve
the problem unless you build in,
1562
01:20:18,171 --> 01:20:21,505
you know,
systematic structural change
1563
01:20:21,538 --> 01:20:26,805
{\an1}that can keep working
over a long timeframe.
1564
01:20:31,071 --> 01:20:32,105
{\an8}WOMAN:
Nancy, hi!
1565
01:20:32,138 --> 01:20:33,471
{\an7}How are you, Nancy?
1566
01:20:33,505 --> 01:20:35,738
{\an7}So good to see you.
How are you?
1567
01:20:35,771 --> 01:20:38,305
{\an1}I can't remember the last time
I saw you.
1568
01:20:38,338 --> 01:20:40,605
{\an1}How are you, how are you?
Good to see you.
1569
01:20:40,638 --> 01:20:43,471
{\an1}You're wearing
a different costume!
1570
01:20:43,505 --> 01:20:47,105
{\an4}Oh, so good to see you.
Nancy, this is such a
crazy thing.
1571
01:20:47,138 --> 01:20:50,105
HOPKINS:
It took that group
working together
1572
01:20:50,138 --> 01:20:51,605
{\an1}to take this problem on.
1573
01:20:51,638 --> 01:20:53,405
{\an1}It really couldn't have
been done otherwise.
1574
01:20:53,438 --> 01:20:56,305
{\an1}MALANOTTE-RIZZOLI:
Sylvia, myself, Penny,
1575
01:20:56,338 --> 01:20:58,505
Nancy, Vicki.
1576
01:20:58,538 --> 01:20:59,771
We were much younger.
1577
01:20:59,805 --> 01:21:01,305
(laughter)
1578
01:21:01,338 --> 01:21:02,471
CHISHOLM:
Everyone was.
1579
01:21:02,505 --> 01:21:05,671
20 years.
1580
01:21:05,705 --> 01:21:08,905
{\an1}You know, this kind of thing
takes somebody who's passionate,
1581
01:21:08,938 --> 01:21:10,347
who's willing to give
their life to it,
1582
01:21:10,371 --> 01:21:11,581
{\an1}and who has tremendous courage.
1583
01:21:11,605 --> 01:21:12,838
The first toast
1584
01:21:12,871 --> 01:21:16,205
{\an1}is to Nancy, and the second
toast is to all of us.
1585
01:21:16,238 --> 01:21:20,038
{\an1}(laughter, chatter)
1586
01:21:20,071 --> 01:21:22,605
{\an1}If you go back and read
the things that we wrote,
1587
01:21:22,638 --> 01:21:24,071
{\an1}they're brilliant!
1588
01:21:24,105 --> 01:21:28,871
(laughter)
1589
01:21:28,905 --> 01:21:32,505
♪
1590
01:21:38,138 --> 01:21:39,438
BURKS:
So we are in Quebec City
1591
01:21:39,471 --> 01:21:43,171
{\an1}for the Canadian Chemical
Society meeting.
1592
01:21:43,205 --> 01:21:45,938
{\an1}I am speaking at the meeting.
1593
01:21:45,971 --> 01:21:47,181
{\an1}I always get really, really
nervous.
1594
01:21:47,205 --> 01:21:50,205
{\an1}A skosh of it might be
impostor syndrome,
1595
01:21:50,238 --> 01:21:52,871
{\an1}which a lot of people get.
1596
01:21:52,905 --> 01:21:54,105
{\an1}But I also think part of it
1597
01:21:54,138 --> 01:21:58,905
{\an1}is the expectations sometimes
for speakers
1598
01:21:58,938 --> 01:22:01,738
{\an1}from historically marginalized
groups are higher.
1599
01:22:01,771 --> 01:22:03,305
{\an1}(indistinct chatter)
1600
01:22:03,338 --> 01:22:05,305
WOMAN:
"The Washington Post,"
"Chemistry World,"
1601
01:22:05,338 --> 01:22:06,605
{\an1}and "Scientific American"
1602
01:22:06,638 --> 01:22:09,205
{\an1}have all featured her
pop-culture chemistry writing.
1603
01:22:09,238 --> 01:22:10,881
{\an1}And if you haven't yet checked
out her blogs
1604
01:22:10,905 --> 01:22:15,405
{\an1}and podcasts, they make really
excellent content for lectures.
1605
01:22:15,438 --> 01:22:18,371
{\an1}Please join me in welcoming Dr.
Raychelle Burks to the stage.
1606
01:22:18,405 --> 01:22:24,071
(applause)
1607
01:22:24,105 --> 01:22:25,114
{\an1}BURKS:
So I want to kick off my talk
1608
01:22:25,138 --> 01:22:27,305
{\an1}by first talking about
code-switching.
1609
01:22:27,338 --> 01:22:30,305
{\an1}So how many folks are familiar
with code-switching?
1610
01:22:30,338 --> 01:22:32,705
{\an1}And so it's a linguistic term.
1611
01:22:32,738 --> 01:22:36,471
{\an1}Oftentimes in linguistics, it's
considered between languages.
1612
01:22:36,505 --> 01:22:39,038
{\an1}Definitely when you're learning
a new language, right?
1613
01:22:39,071 --> 01:22:41,671
{\an1}But in the last ten to 15 years,
this has really been expanded,
1614
01:22:41,705 --> 01:22:42,805
{\an1}and this is actually
1615
01:22:42,838 --> 01:22:44,671
{\an1}a great visual of what
code-switching is.
1616
01:22:44,705 --> 01:22:47,738
{\an1}So look at how he's doing
this handshake...
1617
01:22:47,771 --> 01:22:50,205
{\an1}And then with Durant, right?
1618
01:22:50,238 --> 01:22:51,571
{\an1}There's a familiarity there.
1619
01:22:51,605 --> 01:22:53,738
{\an1}You code-switch, right?
1620
01:22:53,771 --> 01:22:55,171
{\an1}If you're at work,
1621
01:22:55,205 --> 01:22:58,238
{\an1}talking to your colleagues,
talking to the dean, or at home,
1622
01:22:58,271 --> 01:23:00,038
you switch your styles.
1623
01:23:00,071 --> 01:23:01,438
You may also switch
your language.
1624
01:23:01,471 --> 01:23:02,905
{\an1}Even though we all do it,
1625
01:23:02,938 --> 01:23:04,805
{\an1}the historically marginalized
do it sometimes
1626
01:23:04,838 --> 01:23:06,638
{\an1}for a different reason, right?
1627
01:23:06,671 --> 01:23:10,171
{\an1}We do it because we're told
in implicit and explicit ways
1628
01:23:10,205 --> 01:23:12,471
{\an1}that basically everything
you are,
1629
01:23:12,505 --> 01:23:14,414
{\an1}from the top of your head
to the bottom of your toes,
1630
01:23:14,438 --> 01:23:15,938
needs to change.
1631
01:23:15,971 --> 01:23:18,671
{\an1}Your hair, your "ethnic dress,"
1632
01:23:18,705 --> 01:23:22,371
{\an1}your mannerisms, they got to go,
right?
1633
01:23:22,405 --> 01:23:23,838
{\an1}And we often do it
1634
01:23:23,871 --> 01:23:26,638
{\an1}by calling it "professional"
1635
01:23:26,671 --> 01:23:28,938
{\an1}or "professional standards,"
right?
1636
01:23:28,971 --> 01:23:32,105
{\an1}And what we need to realize
is that our so-called
1637
01:23:32,138 --> 01:23:34,938
{\an1}professional standards
or professionalism,
1638
01:23:34,971 --> 01:23:37,138
{\an1}who got to decide that?
1639
01:23:37,171 --> 01:23:40,671
{\an1}Who got to make those rules,
right?
1640
01:23:40,705 --> 01:23:42,971
{\an1}'Cause I don't recall
making a rule that my hair
1641
01:23:43,005 --> 01:23:44,571
{\an1}needed to be straight.
1642
01:23:44,605 --> 01:23:47,171
{\an1}And I have absolutely been told,
you know,
1643
01:23:47,205 --> 01:23:48,805
{\an1}"Before you go to that talk,
1644
01:23:48,838 --> 01:23:52,005
{\an1}are you going to make your hair
look more professional?"
1645
01:23:52,038 --> 01:23:54,038
{\an1}K through 12, college,
1646
01:23:54,071 --> 01:23:56,305
graduate school,
1647
01:23:56,338 --> 01:23:57,738
{\an1}and now we hear this
kind of thing.
1648
01:23:57,771 --> 01:23:59,038
{\an1}"Science is apolitical," right?
1649
01:23:59,071 --> 01:24:00,605
{\an1}"It's objective."
1650
01:24:00,638 --> 01:24:03,205
{\an1}"It's free from bias where only
the best rise to the top."
1651
01:24:03,238 --> 01:24:06,671
{\an1}And I did believe that, okay?
1652
01:24:06,705 --> 01:24:08,547
{\an1}And maybe there are some of you
sitting in the audience
1653
01:24:08,571 --> 01:24:10,605
that are, like,
"No, that's absolutely true.
1654
01:24:10,638 --> 01:24:12,138
{\an1}And I refuse to hear
differently."
1655
01:24:12,171 --> 01:24:16,171
{\an1}And it's not true, because
science is a human endeavor,
1656
01:24:16,205 --> 01:24:18,238
{\an1}and that means that it contains
and is subject to
1657
01:24:18,271 --> 01:24:21,705
{\an1}all of our brilliance
and all of our bias.
1658
01:24:21,738 --> 01:24:24,805
{\an1}And we tend to focus on the
brilliance part, but remember,
1659
01:24:24,838 --> 01:24:27,538
{\an1}there's an "and bias."
1660
01:24:27,571 --> 01:24:32,005
{\an1}This is advice that I've gotten,
and I'm passing it on.
1661
01:24:32,038 --> 01:24:33,238
{\an1}Take care of yourself.
1662
01:24:33,271 --> 01:24:34,871
{\an1}Take care of you,
take care of others.
1663
01:24:34,905 --> 01:24:39,505
{\an1}You cannot do everything
on your own.
1664
01:24:39,538 --> 01:24:42,538
{\an1}You need enough of your allies,
well positioned,
1665
01:24:42,571 --> 01:24:44,538
{\an1}to make something happen.
1666
01:24:44,571 --> 01:24:47,038
{\an1}It's about doing.
1667
01:24:47,071 --> 01:24:48,805
{\an1}The correction requires action.
1668
01:24:48,838 --> 01:24:51,705
We can do better,
we can get better,
1669
01:24:51,738 --> 01:24:54,038
{\an1}and we will be better together.
1670
01:24:54,071 --> 01:24:56,071
Thank you.
1671
01:24:56,105 --> 01:24:59,371
(applause)
1672
01:24:59,405 --> 01:25:05,705
♪
1673
01:25:19,971 --> 01:25:21,838
{\an8}Awesome.
1674
01:25:21,871 --> 01:25:25,205
{\an7}There you go.
Perfect.
1675
01:25:25,238 --> 01:25:28,305
WILLENBRING:
So we're going to take a sample,
take it back to the lab,
1676
01:25:28,338 --> 01:25:33,438
{\an1}and crush it, and then we do all
kinds of things to it.
1677
01:25:33,471 --> 01:25:35,438
(chuckles)
1678
01:25:35,471 --> 01:25:38,838
{\an7}You'll take that tiny little
powder that you end up with,
1679
01:25:38,871 --> 01:25:42,305
{\an7}and you'll pack that into a
little target
1680
01:25:42,338 --> 01:25:45,738
{\an7}that you send to the accelerator
mass spectrometer,
1681
01:25:45,771 --> 01:25:48,338
{\an1}and the whole sample that you
end up with
1682
01:25:48,371 --> 01:25:50,138
{\an1}is, like, the head of a pin.
1683
01:25:50,171 --> 01:25:51,105
Sometimes we use
1684
01:25:51,138 --> 01:25:53,538
{\an1}kilograms of samples,
1685
01:25:53,571 --> 01:25:56,905
{\an1}and we'll end up with just this
little tiny thing
1686
01:25:56,938 --> 01:25:59,905
{\an1}that will disappear if you
sneeze, so we don't do that.
1687
01:25:59,938 --> 01:26:02,738
(laughter)
1688
01:26:02,771 --> 01:26:07,205
{\an8}WILLENBRING:
One of my goals in mentoring is
1689
01:26:07,238 --> 01:26:11,905
{\an7}to be someone that I needed
when I was younger.
1690
01:26:11,938 --> 01:26:13,314
{\an7}All right, so do we measure
or should we keep going?
1691
01:26:13,338 --> 01:26:14,738
{\an8}WILLENBRING:
Maybe a little bit
more.
1692
01:26:14,771 --> 01:26:16,638
{\an8}(hammering)
1693
01:26:16,671 --> 01:26:18,238
{\an8}WOMAN:
Jane's a great adviser.
1694
01:26:18,271 --> 01:26:21,405
{\an7}She really is somebody who I can
admire and look up to
1695
01:26:21,438 --> 01:26:26,405
{\an7}and take as a role model
in many different ways.
1696
01:26:26,438 --> 01:26:28,638
{\an8}WILLENBRING:
Oh, that's the money
right there.
1697
01:26:28,671 --> 01:26:30,605
{\an8}Ah, perfect.
1698
01:26:30,638 --> 01:26:33,505
{\an8}WILLENBRING:
If you hit it
a couple of more times.
1699
01:26:33,538 --> 01:26:36,805
{\an8}♪
1700
01:26:36,838 --> 01:26:39,971
{\an1}I think about what would have
led the faculty committee
1701
01:26:40,005 --> 01:26:45,738
{\an1}to have come to that decision
to let him back on.
1702
01:26:45,771 --> 01:26:49,505
{\an1}They said that he would be able
to resume his normal activities
1703
01:26:49,538 --> 01:26:52,038
{\an1}after a certain period of time.
1704
01:26:52,071 --> 01:26:54,638
{\an1}So I was in sort of disbelief.
1705
01:26:57,505 --> 01:27:02,138
{\an1}But the president, fortunately,
thought something different.
1706
01:27:02,171 --> 01:27:03,538
BROWN:
I'm Bob Brown.
1707
01:27:03,571 --> 01:27:06,538
{\an1}I'm president of Boston
University,
1708
01:27:06,571 --> 01:27:08,905
{\an1}and before that, was provost
at M.I.T.
1709
01:27:08,938 --> 01:27:14,138
♪
1710
01:27:14,171 --> 01:27:16,571
NEWS REPORTER:
Boston University has fired
a professor
1711
01:27:16,605 --> 01:27:18,371
{\an1}accused of sexual harassment.
1712
01:27:18,405 --> 01:27:20,005
{\an1}In a letter to the faculty
Friday,
1713
01:27:20,038 --> 01:27:22,038
{\an1}B.U. president Robert Brown
announced
1714
01:27:22,071 --> 01:27:24,505
{\an1}that after a 13-month
investigation,
1715
01:27:24,538 --> 01:27:26,738
{\an1}the board of trustees voted to
terminate
1716
01:27:26,771 --> 01:27:28,505
{\an1}Dr. David Marchant's employment.
1717
01:27:28,538 --> 01:27:31,705
WILLENBRING:
When I heard the news,
1718
01:27:31,738 --> 01:27:34,905
{\an1}I was a little bit conflicted,
because on the one hand,
1719
01:27:34,938 --> 01:27:36,638
{\an1}it was great that he was fired
1720
01:27:36,671 --> 01:27:38,871
{\an1}and wouldn't be able to do
anything
1721
01:27:38,905 --> 01:27:42,705
{\an1}to other female trainees.
1722
01:27:42,738 --> 01:27:48,071
{\an1}But on the other hand,
in so many cases,
1723
01:27:48,105 --> 01:27:52,171
{\an1}there's not that justice
that happens.
1724
01:27:52,938 --> 01:27:54,438
{\an1}(Sylvie speaks indistinctly)
1725
01:27:54,471 --> 01:27:56,905
{\an1}(Willenbring laughs)
1726
01:27:56,938 --> 01:28:01,138
A lot of people,
especially male scientists,
1727
01:28:01,171 --> 01:28:03,838
{\an1}you know, when they heard about
my story,
1728
01:28:03,871 --> 01:28:07,305
{\an1}I received a diversity
of responses.
1729
01:28:07,338 --> 01:28:09,205
{\an1}Some people avoided eye contact.
1730
01:28:09,238 --> 01:28:14,005
{\an1}Some people wanted to have
nothing to do with me.
1731
01:28:14,038 --> 01:28:18,005
{\an1}Some people wanted to talk about
it and ask what they could do,
1732
01:28:18,038 --> 01:28:19,971
which I think
is a great response.
1733
01:28:23,338 --> 01:28:26,905
{\an1}One thing that's been really
impressive has been
1734
01:28:26,938 --> 01:28:31,405
{\an1}how much people have wanted
to make change as a result.
1735
01:28:34,105 --> 01:28:36,905
{\an1}The Science and Technology
Committee opened an inquiry.
1736
01:28:36,938 --> 01:28:41,838
{\an1}They were shocked that someone
who'd been harassing women
1737
01:28:41,871 --> 01:28:45,138
{\an1}for decades had received
millions of dollars
1738
01:28:45,171 --> 01:28:48,438
{\an1}in National Science Foundation
funding.
1739
01:28:48,471 --> 01:28:50,281
{\an1}BARBARA COMSTOCK:
The Committee on Science, Space,
and Technology
1740
01:28:50,305 --> 01:28:52,438
{\an1}will come to order.
(gavel raps)
1741
01:28:52,471 --> 01:28:54,871
{\an1}And I now recognize Dr. Clancy
for five minutes
1742
01:28:54,905 --> 01:28:56,638
{\an1}to present her testimony.
1743
01:28:56,671 --> 01:28:59,538
{\an1}We scientists do this work
because we want to give
1744
01:28:59,571 --> 01:29:02,671
{\an1}the best of ourselves to the
advancement of science.
1745
01:29:02,705 --> 01:29:05,105
{\an1}Women keep trying to give us
their best,
1746
01:29:05,138 --> 01:29:08,505
{\an1}and we blow ash in their faces
and push them down mountains.
1747
01:29:08,538 --> 01:29:10,871
{\an1}The way we've tried to fix this
problem isn't working.
1748
01:29:10,905 --> 01:29:13,271
{\an1}We have decades of evidence
to prove it.
1749
01:29:13,305 --> 01:29:15,271
{\an1}Let's move away from a culture
of compliance
1750
01:29:15,305 --> 01:29:16,938
{\an1}and towards a culture of change.
1751
01:29:16,971 --> 01:29:19,905
♪
1752
01:29:34,671 --> 01:29:37,538
{\an8}♪
1753
01:29:44,571 --> 01:29:48,438
HOPKINS:
Despite all the progress,
and it's tremendous progress,
1754
01:29:48,471 --> 01:29:52,305
{\an1}women still grapple
with these problems.
1755
01:29:52,338 --> 01:29:54,938
{\an1}People had never really looked
at the data
1756
01:29:54,971 --> 01:29:57,471
{\an1}in the way that we looked at it
as a committee.
1757
01:29:57,505 --> 01:30:01,271
So I kept memos,
just copies of memos.
1758
01:30:01,305 --> 01:30:04,271
{\an1}And what's astonishing to me
when I look at all of this
1759
01:30:04,305 --> 01:30:07,405
{\an1}is the amount of time
and the amount of work
1760
01:30:07,438 --> 01:30:10,038
{\an1}that went into doing this,
1761
01:30:10,071 --> 01:30:12,405
{\an1}asking people to come
to meetings
1762
01:30:12,438 --> 01:30:15,538
{\an7}and the amount of effort it took
to try to see...
1763
01:30:15,571 --> 01:30:17,605
{\an7}And I think about, you know...
1764
01:30:17,638 --> 01:30:21,205
{\an7}it makes me realize, you know,
that at the time,
1765
01:30:21,238 --> 01:30:23,238
{\an1}I was spending 20 hours a week
or something on this
1766
01:30:23,271 --> 01:30:26,138
{\an1}and then doing my job
the rest of the time.
1767
01:30:26,171 --> 01:30:27,538
It makes me sad.
1768
01:30:27,571 --> 01:30:28,638
It really does.
1769
01:30:28,671 --> 01:30:31,371
{\an1}You know, you sort of wonder
in your life,
1770
01:30:31,405 --> 01:30:33,505
{\an1}would you have done it
differently?
1771
01:30:33,538 --> 01:30:36,138
{\an1}And, gosh, I don't know.
1772
01:30:36,171 --> 01:30:37,771
{\an1}I couldn't have lived without
science,
1773
01:30:37,805 --> 01:30:39,647
{\an1}but I wouldn't live through this
again, I'll tell you.
1774
01:30:39,671 --> 01:30:41,414
{\an1}So I don't know what the answer
should have been,
1775
01:30:41,438 --> 01:30:42,571
would have been.
1776
01:30:42,605 --> 01:30:43,938
{\an1}I still don't know.
1777
01:30:43,971 --> 01:30:48,671
{\an1}It can still... Even now, just,
just thinking about it,
1778
01:30:48,705 --> 01:30:51,805
{\an1}you know, that it was this way.
1779
01:30:51,838 --> 01:30:53,605
{\an1}Such a waste of time and energy,
1780
01:30:53,638 --> 01:30:55,538
{\an1}when all you wanted to do
was be a scientist.
1781
01:30:55,571 --> 01:30:57,671
What on Earth?
1782
01:30:57,705 --> 01:31:00,705
♪
1783
01:31:10,271 --> 01:31:13,371
{\an1}Look at the talent
of these women.
1784
01:31:13,405 --> 01:31:18,271
{\an1}This is what you lose when you
do not solve this problem.
1785
01:31:18,305 --> 01:31:21,605
♪
1786
01:31:23,305 --> 01:31:25,705
{\an1}And that's really what it's
about.
1787
01:31:25,738 --> 01:31:28,571
{\an1}It's about the science.
1788
01:31:28,605 --> 01:31:31,705
♪
1789
01:32:13,938 --> 01:32:17,105
{\an8}♪
1790
01:32:17,138 --> 01:32:20,271
{\an8}REPORTER:
As misinformation and so-called
fake news continues
1791
01:32:20,305 --> 01:32:22,038
{\an7}to be rapidly distributed on the
internet,
1792
01:32:22,071 --> 01:32:24,205
{\an7}our reality has become
increasingly shaped
1793
01:32:24,238 --> 01:32:25,705
{\an7}by false information.
1794
01:32:25,738 --> 01:32:27,214
{\an7}Many people don't know the
difference between
1795
01:32:27,238 --> 01:32:31,671
{\an7}something real and something
created to deceive them.
1796
01:32:31,705 --> 01:32:36,371
{\an8}SAFIYA NOBLE:
I spent about 15 years in
advertising and marketing,
1797
01:32:36,405 --> 01:32:42,438
{\an7}and while I was there,
Google arrived on the scene.
1798
01:32:42,471 --> 01:32:45,938
{\an1}I understood the transformative
effect that this search engine
1799
01:32:45,971 --> 01:32:47,838
{\an1}was having in helping us curate
1800
01:32:47,871 --> 01:32:50,338
{\an1}through all kinds
of information.
1801
01:32:50,371 --> 01:32:53,371
{\an1}But I was surprised,
having just left advertising,
1802
01:32:53,405 --> 01:32:55,771
{\an1}that everybody was thinking
about Google
1803
01:32:55,805 --> 01:32:58,371
{\an1}as this new public trusted
resource,
1804
01:32:58,405 --> 01:33:02,671
{\an1}because I thought of it
as an advertising platform.
1805
01:33:04,371 --> 01:33:06,138
{\an1}Most people who use search
engines believe
1806
01:33:06,171 --> 01:33:11,238
{\an1}that search engine results
are fair and unbiased.
1807
01:33:12,838 --> 01:33:15,971
{\an1}The public, and especially kids
and young people,
1808
01:33:16,005 --> 01:33:21,871
{\an1}use search engines to tell them
the facts about the world.
1809
01:33:21,905 --> 01:33:23,671
♪
1810
01:33:26,971 --> 01:33:30,938
{\an1}One weekend, my nieces were
coming over to hang out,
1811
01:33:30,971 --> 01:33:33,271
{\an1}and I was thinking, "Oh, let me
pull my laptop out
1812
01:33:33,305 --> 01:33:34,481
{\an1}"and see if I can find some cool
things
1813
01:33:34,505 --> 01:33:35,514
{\an1}for us to do this weekend."
1814
01:33:35,538 --> 01:33:40,071
{\an1}I just thought to type in "Black
girls,"
1815
01:33:40,105 --> 01:33:41,671
{\an1}and the whole first page
1816
01:33:41,705 --> 01:33:45,205
{\an1}of search results was almost
exclusively pornography
1817
01:33:45,238 --> 01:33:47,971
{\an1}or hyper-sexualized content.
1818
01:33:49,238 --> 01:33:55,038
{\an1}In 2012, I started to see
some of the results changing.
1819
01:33:55,071 --> 01:33:58,571
{\an1}Google had started to suppress
the pornography
1820
01:33:58,605 --> 01:34:01,238
{\an1}around Black girls.
1821
01:34:01,271 --> 01:34:05,305
{\an1}Unfortunately, still today,
we see pornography
1822
01:34:05,338 --> 01:34:08,205
{\an1}and a kind of hyper-sexualized
content as the primary way
1823
01:34:08,238 --> 01:34:12,405
{\an1}in which Latina and Asian girls
are represented.
1824
01:34:12,438 --> 01:34:16,238
{\an1}"What makes Asian girls so
attractive," "Asian fetish,"
1825
01:34:16,271 --> 01:34:21,771
{\an1}"hot ladies from Asians," "see
who we rank number one in 2020,"
1826
01:34:21,805 --> 01:34:25,538
{\an1}"tender Asian girls,"
"meet world beauties."
1827
01:34:25,571 --> 01:34:28,871
♪
1828
01:34:28,905 --> 01:34:33,105
{\an1}This is the study that was done
by the Markup
1829
01:34:33,138 --> 01:34:35,838
{\an1}that replicated my study
from ten years ago.
1830
01:34:35,871 --> 01:34:39,171
{\an1}They found that Black girls,
Latina girls, and Asian girls,
1831
01:34:39,205 --> 01:34:42,138
{\an1}those phrases were... look...
1832
01:34:42,171 --> 01:34:47,138
{\an1}so profoundly linked with kind
of adult content.
1833
01:34:47,171 --> 01:34:49,971
{\an7}Zero for white girls,
zero for white boys.
1834
01:34:53,305 --> 01:34:54,805
{\an1}There are so many racial
stereotypes
1835
01:34:54,838 --> 01:35:00,371
{\an1}and gender stereotypes
that show up in search results.
1836
01:35:00,405 --> 01:35:03,071
{\an1}What about actual girls
and children
1837
01:35:03,105 --> 01:35:06,671
{\an1}who go and look for themselves
in these spaces?
1838
01:35:10,971 --> 01:35:12,938
{\an1}It's very disheartening.
1839
01:35:12,971 --> 01:35:17,305
{\an1}When women become sex objects in
a space like this,
1840
01:35:17,338 --> 01:35:21,271
{\an1}it's really profound, because
the public generally relates
1841
01:35:21,305 --> 01:35:24,071
{\an1}to search engines
as kind of fact checkers.
1842
01:35:26,271 --> 01:35:29,238
♪
1843
01:35:29,271 --> 01:35:33,305
{\an1}Before we were so heavily
reliant upon a database,
1844
01:35:33,338 --> 01:35:35,571
{\an1}we used something
like a card catalogue.
1845
01:35:35,605 --> 01:35:37,571
♪
1846
01:35:37,605 --> 01:35:41,105
{\an1}We didn't rank content,
it was alphabetical.
1847
01:35:41,138 --> 01:35:42,738
{\an1}It also might be by subject.
1848
01:35:42,771 --> 01:35:45,005
It's a summary of the
organization system
1849
01:35:45,038 --> 01:35:47,738
we call the
Dewey Decimal System.
1850
01:35:47,771 --> 01:35:51,138
NOBLE:
Now when we're in a subject,
we know there is
1851
01:35:51,171 --> 01:35:54,171
{\an1}a lot in relationship
to that one item
1852
01:35:54,205 --> 01:35:55,538
{\an1}that we might be looking for.
1853
01:35:55,571 --> 01:35:59,471
{\an1}We might go look for a book in
the stacks, for example,
1854
01:35:59,505 --> 01:36:04,138
{\an1}and find that there's hundreds
of books around that one
1855
01:36:04,171 --> 01:36:06,305
{\an1}that tell us something about
that book,
1856
01:36:06,338 --> 01:36:09,805
{\an1}and we might serendipitously
find all kinds of other bits
1857
01:36:09,838 --> 01:36:11,305
{\an1}of information that are amazing.
1858
01:36:11,338 --> 01:36:15,638
{\an1}But we can see a little a bit
more about the logics of that.
1859
01:36:15,671 --> 01:36:18,705
{\an1}We don't understand the logics
of how certain things
1860
01:36:18,738 --> 01:36:23,738
{\an1}make it to the first page
in a search.
1861
01:36:23,771 --> 01:36:26,905
{\an1}Google has a very complicated
1862
01:36:26,938 --> 01:36:31,005
{\an1}and nuanced algorithm
for search.
1863
01:36:33,771 --> 01:36:36,605
{\an1}Over 200 different factors
go into
1864
01:36:36,638 --> 01:36:39,571
{\an1}how they decide what we see.
1865
01:36:39,605 --> 01:36:41,871
{\an1}Of course, they're indexing
about half
1866
01:36:41,905 --> 01:36:44,705
{\an1}of all of the information
that is on the web,
1867
01:36:44,738 --> 01:36:47,838
{\an1}and even that is trillions
of pages.
1868
01:36:47,871 --> 01:36:49,538
AD ANNOUNCER:
Billions of times a day,
1869
01:36:49,571 --> 01:36:52,338
{\an1}Google software locates all the
potentially relevant results
1870
01:36:52,371 --> 01:36:54,505
{\an1}on the web, removes all the
spam, and ranks them
1871
01:36:54,538 --> 01:36:58,438
{\an1}based on hundreds of factors,
like keywords, links, location,
1872
01:36:58,471 --> 01:37:02,071
and freshness...
All in, oh, 0.81 seconds.
1873
01:37:04,105 --> 01:37:07,605
NOBLE:
The whole premise of a search
engine is to categorize
1874
01:37:07,638 --> 01:37:11,138
{\an1}and classify information.
1875
01:37:11,171 --> 01:37:13,738
{\an1}A lot of the content that comes
back to us on the internet,
1876
01:37:13,771 --> 01:37:17,171
{\an1}it's in a cultural context
of ranking.
1877
01:37:17,205 --> 01:37:20,171
{\an7}We know very early what it means
to be number one,
1878
01:37:20,205 --> 01:37:23,371
{\an7}so ranking logic signals to us
1879
01:37:23,405 --> 01:37:26,671
{\an7}that the classification is
accurate,
1880
01:37:26,705 --> 01:37:28,505
{\an7}from one being the best
1881
01:37:28,538 --> 01:37:32,605
{\an7}to whatever is on page 48
of search,
1882
01:37:32,638 --> 01:37:35,671
{\an1}which nobody ever looks at.
1883
01:37:35,705 --> 01:37:37,805
{\an1}(keyboard clacking)
1884
01:37:38,871 --> 01:37:41,205
{\an1}Part of what it's doing is
picking up signals
1885
01:37:41,238 --> 01:37:43,305
{\an1}from things that we've clicked
on in the past,
1886
01:37:43,338 --> 01:37:45,538
{\an1}that a lot of other people have
clicked on,
1887
01:37:45,571 --> 01:37:48,338
{\an1}things that are popular.
1888
01:37:48,371 --> 01:37:53,871
{\an1}So an algorithm is, in essence,
a decision tree.
1889
01:37:53,905 --> 01:37:56,305
{\an1}If these conditions are present,
1890
01:37:56,338 --> 01:37:58,705
{\an1}then this decision
should be made.
1891
01:37:58,738 --> 01:38:02,871
{\an1}And the decision tree gets
automated
1892
01:38:02,905 --> 01:38:06,238
{\an1}so that it becomes like
a sorting mechanism.
1893
01:38:09,605 --> 01:38:12,838
{\an7}Google's very reliable for
certain types of information.
1894
01:38:12,871 --> 01:38:16,271
{\an1}If you're using it in this kind
of phone book fashion,
1895
01:38:16,305 --> 01:38:18,771
{\an1}it's fairly reliable.
1896
01:38:18,805 --> 01:38:20,571
{\an1}But when you start asking a
search engine
1897
01:38:20,605 --> 01:38:23,571
{\an1}more complex questions, or you
start looking for knowledge,
1898
01:38:23,605 --> 01:38:27,771
{\an1}the evidence isn't there that
it's capable of doing that.
1899
01:38:27,805 --> 01:38:30,505
{\an1}It's this combination of
hyperlinking,
1900
01:38:30,538 --> 01:38:33,871
{\an1}it's a combination of
advertising and capital,
1901
01:38:33,905 --> 01:38:36,171
{\an1}and also what people click on
1902
01:38:36,205 --> 01:38:39,971
{\an1}that really drives
what we find on the web.
1903
01:38:40,005 --> 01:38:43,971
{\an1}This is where we start falling
into trickier situations,
1904
01:38:44,005 --> 01:38:47,138
{\an1}because those who have the most
money are really able
1905
01:38:47,171 --> 01:38:50,671
{\an1}to optimize their content
better than anyone else.
1906
01:38:50,705 --> 01:38:53,738
♪
1907
01:38:53,771 --> 01:38:57,705
{\an7}There have been great studies
about the disparate impact
1908
01:38:57,738 --> 01:39:02,338
{\an7}of what a profile online
says about who you are.
1909
01:39:02,371 --> 01:39:06,138
{\an8}♪
1910
01:39:06,171 --> 01:39:07,671
{\an8}LATANYA SWEENEY:
I was the first
1911
01:39:07,705 --> 01:39:09,105
{\an1}African American women to get
1912
01:39:09,138 --> 01:39:11,971
{\an1}a PhD in computer science at
M.I.T.
1913
01:39:14,171 --> 01:39:15,871
{\an1}So, I visit Harvard.
1914
01:39:15,905 --> 01:39:19,338
{\an1}I'm being interviewed there
by a reporter,
1915
01:39:19,371 --> 01:39:25,571
{\an1}and he wants to see a particular
paper that I had done before.
1916
01:39:25,605 --> 01:39:28,838
{\an1}So, I go over to my computer,
1917
01:39:28,871 --> 01:39:32,371
{\an1}I type in my name into Google's
search bar,
1918
01:39:32,405 --> 01:39:38,138
{\an1}and upward pops this ad implying
I had an arrest record.
1919
01:39:38,171 --> 01:39:39,314
He says,
"Ah, forget that article.
1920
01:39:39,338 --> 01:39:41,305
{\an1}Tell me about the time
you were arrested."
1921
01:39:41,338 --> 01:39:42,914
{\an1}I said, "Well, I have never
been arrested."
1922
01:39:42,938 --> 01:39:44,281
{\an1}And he says, "Then why does
your computer say
1923
01:39:44,305 --> 01:39:45,305
{\an1}you've been arrested?"
1924
01:39:45,338 --> 01:39:48,605
♪
1925
01:39:48,638 --> 01:39:51,738
{\an1}So I click on the ad,
I go to the company to show him
1926
01:39:51,771 --> 01:39:54,105
{\an1}not only did I not have an
arrest record,
1927
01:39:54,138 --> 01:39:56,405
but nobody with
a "Latanya Sweeney" name
1928
01:39:56,438 --> 01:39:58,038
{\an1}had an arrest record.
1929
01:39:58,071 --> 01:40:00,405
{\an1}And he says, "Yeah, but why did
it say that?"
1930
01:40:03,238 --> 01:40:04,771
{\an1}If you type in the name
"Latanya"
1931
01:40:04,805 --> 01:40:06,905
{\an1}in the Google image search,
1932
01:40:06,938 --> 01:40:09,671
{\an1}you can see a lot Black faces
staring back.
1933
01:40:09,705 --> 01:40:10,971
{\an1}Whereas if I type "Tanya,"
1934
01:40:11,005 --> 01:40:13,371
{\an1}I see a lot of white faces
staring back.
1935
01:40:13,405 --> 01:40:15,505
{\an1}So we get the idea that there
are some first names
1936
01:40:15,538 --> 01:40:19,438
{\an1}given more often to Black babies
than white babies.
1937
01:40:19,471 --> 01:40:20,705
{\an1}So, I then took a month
1938
01:40:20,738 --> 01:40:24,205
{\an1}and I researched almost 150,000
ad deliveries
1939
01:40:24,238 --> 01:40:27,471
{\an1}around the country, and I found
that if your name was given
1940
01:40:27,505 --> 01:40:29,938
{\an1}more often to white babies
than Black babies,
1941
01:40:29,971 --> 01:40:31,438
{\an1}the ad would be neutral.
1942
01:40:34,838 --> 01:40:37,938
{\an1}And if your first name
was given more often
1943
01:40:37,971 --> 01:40:39,938
to Black babies
than white babies,
1944
01:40:39,971 --> 01:40:42,138
{\an1}you were 80% likely to get an ad
1945
01:40:42,171 --> 01:40:43,638
implying you had
an arrest record,
1946
01:40:43,671 --> 01:40:46,838
{\an1}even if no one with your name
1947
01:40:46,871 --> 01:40:50,371
{\an1}had any arrest record
in their database.
1948
01:40:56,705 --> 01:41:00,605
NOBLE:
One specific way
that algorithms discriminate
1949
01:41:00,638 --> 01:41:04,738
{\an1}is that they just are too crude.
1950
01:41:04,771 --> 01:41:06,371
{\an1}The idea of if x, then y,
1951
01:41:06,405 --> 01:41:08,771
{\an1}if you have this type of name,
1952
01:41:08,805 --> 01:41:12,838
{\an1}it means you're automatically
associated with criminality.
1953
01:41:12,871 --> 01:41:16,338
{\an1}That blunt, crude kind of
association,
1954
01:41:16,371 --> 01:41:22,338
{\an1}that is the staple logic
of how algorithms work.
1955
01:41:24,271 --> 01:41:28,438
{\an1}The types of bias that we find
on the internet are often blunt.
1956
01:41:28,471 --> 01:41:34,238
{\an1}We are being profiled into
similar groups of people
1957
01:41:34,271 --> 01:41:37,438
{\an1}who do the kinds of things
that we might be doing,
1958
01:41:37,471 --> 01:41:41,638
{\an1}and we're clustered and sold
as a cluster to advertisers.
1959
01:41:41,671 --> 01:41:44,505
{\an1}And so there's certainly a
commercial bias.
1960
01:41:44,538 --> 01:41:47,438
{\an1}But we also have the bias
of the people
1961
01:41:47,471 --> 01:41:49,338
{\an1}who design the technologies.
1962
01:41:49,371 --> 01:41:54,138
{\an8}♪
1963
01:41:54,171 --> 01:41:59,138
{\an7}To think that technologies will
be neutral or never have bias
1964
01:41:59,171 --> 01:42:04,071
{\an7}is really an improper framing.
1965
01:42:04,105 --> 01:42:06,538
{\an7}Of course there will always be
a point of view
1966
01:42:06,571 --> 01:42:08,005
{\an7}in our technologies.
1967
01:42:08,038 --> 01:42:13,138
{\an7}The question is, is the point of
view in service of oppression?
1968
01:42:13,171 --> 01:42:16,171
{\an8}Is it sexist?
Is it racist?
1969
01:42:20,671 --> 01:42:23,905
SWEENEY:
Here I was, a passionate
believer in the future
1970
01:42:23,938 --> 01:42:27,471
{\an1}of equitable technology,
and if the people,
1971
01:42:27,505 --> 01:42:30,205
{\an1}when they were hiring me
at Harvard, had typed my name
1972
01:42:30,238 --> 01:42:33,438
{\an1}into the Google search bar
and paid attention to this ad,
1973
01:42:33,471 --> 01:42:35,738
{\an1}it put me at a disadvantage.
1974
01:42:35,771 --> 01:42:38,505
{\an1}And not just me, but a whole
group of Black people
1975
01:42:38,538 --> 01:42:40,471
would be placed
at a disadvantage.
1976
01:42:40,505 --> 01:42:42,905
♪
1977
01:42:42,938 --> 01:42:45,605
{\an1}How could these biases of
society be invading
1978
01:42:45,638 --> 01:42:48,505
{\an1}the technology that I really had
grown to love?
1979
01:42:48,538 --> 01:42:51,305
{\an1}And now civil rights
was up for grabs
1980
01:42:51,338 --> 01:42:55,105
{\an1}by what technology design
allowed or didn't allow.
1981
01:42:57,305 --> 01:43:01,738
{\an1}Google's ad delivery system
is really quite amazing.
1982
01:43:01,771 --> 01:43:05,238
{\an1}You click on a web page, and
that web page has a slot
1983
01:43:05,271 --> 01:43:07,805
{\an1}that an ad is going to be
delivered.
1984
01:43:07,838 --> 01:43:09,471
{\an1}And in that fraction of a
second,
1985
01:43:09,505 --> 01:43:10,747
{\an1}while the page is being
delivered,
1986
01:43:10,771 --> 01:43:14,538
{\an1}Google runs a fast digital
auction.
1987
01:43:14,571 --> 01:43:15,905
{\an1}And in that digital auction,
1988
01:43:15,938 --> 01:43:18,571
{\an1}they decide which of competing
ads are going to be the ad
1989
01:43:18,605 --> 01:43:20,338
{\an1}they're going to place
right there.
1990
01:43:23,471 --> 01:43:24,805
{\an1}At first, the Google algorithm
1991
01:43:24,838 --> 01:43:27,238
{\an1}will choose one of them
randomly,
1992
01:43:27,271 --> 01:43:30,071
{\an1}but if somebody clicks on one,
then that one becomes
1993
01:43:30,105 --> 01:43:32,505
{\an1}weighted more often
to be delivered.
1994
01:43:32,538 --> 01:43:37,538
{\an1}So, one way the discrimination
in online ads could happen
1995
01:43:37,571 --> 01:43:40,271
{\an1}would've been that society would
have been biased
1996
01:43:40,305 --> 01:43:42,805
{\an1}on which ads they clicked
most often,
1997
01:43:42,838 --> 01:43:48,338
{\an1}and that this would've represent
the bias of society itself.
1998
01:43:49,905 --> 01:43:54,738
{\an1}Our technology and our data
sharing are so powerful
1999
01:43:54,771 --> 01:43:57,538
{\an1}that they are kind of
like the new policy maker.
2000
01:43:57,571 --> 01:44:02,338
{\an1}We don't have oversight over
these designs, but yet,
2001
01:44:02,371 --> 01:44:05,805
{\an1}how the technology is designed
dictates the rules we live by.
2002
01:44:05,838 --> 01:44:10,971
{\an1}And this meant that we were
moving from a democracy
2003
01:44:11,005 --> 01:44:12,705
{\an1}to a new kind of technocracy.
2004
01:44:12,738 --> 01:44:15,205
{\an1}I became the chief technology
officer
2005
01:44:15,238 --> 01:44:16,905
{\an1}at the Federal Trade Commission.
2006
01:44:16,938 --> 01:44:19,571
{\an1}They're sort of the de facto
police department
2007
01:44:19,605 --> 01:44:21,205
of the internet.
2008
01:44:21,238 --> 01:44:24,638
{\an1}One of the experiments that I
had done while I was at the FTC
2009
01:44:24,671 --> 01:44:27,938
{\an1}showed that everyone's online
experience is not the same.
2010
01:44:33,171 --> 01:44:38,205
♪
2011
01:44:56,105 --> 01:44:59,938
♪
2012
01:45:08,171 --> 01:45:11,671
What we lose
with our hyper-reliance upon
2013
01:45:11,705 --> 01:45:16,038
{\an1}search technologies
and social media is,
2014
01:45:16,071 --> 01:45:20,338
{\an1}the criteria for surfacing
what's most important
2015
01:45:20,371 --> 01:45:23,771
{\an1}can be deeply, highly
manipulated.
2016
01:45:23,805 --> 01:45:29,038
{\an1}One of the hardest case studies
to write in my book
2017
01:45:29,071 --> 01:45:31,105
{\an1}was about Dylann Roof.
2018
01:45:31,138 --> 01:45:35,805
{\an1}He went online and he was trying
to make sense
2019
01:45:35,838 --> 01:45:37,605
of the trial
of George Zimmerman.
2020
01:45:37,638 --> 01:45:41,838
{\an8}And the first thing that
I guess I can say,
2021
01:45:41,871 --> 01:45:43,471
{\an8}I would say woke me up,
2022
01:45:43,505 --> 01:45:45,738
you know, would be
the Trayvon Martin case.
2023
01:45:45,771 --> 01:45:48,805
REPORTER:
Trayvon Martin,
an unarmed Black teenager,
2024
01:45:48,838 --> 01:45:51,305
{\an1}was shot down by a white
neighborhood watchman
2025
01:45:51,338 --> 01:45:52,805
{\an1}who claimed self-defense.
2026
01:45:52,838 --> 01:45:56,071
{\an8}Eventually I decided to,
you know, look his name up,
2027
01:45:56,105 --> 01:45:57,438
{\an8}just type him into Google,
2028
01:45:57,471 --> 01:45:58,938
{\an8}you know what I'm saying?
2029
01:45:58,971 --> 01:46:01,871
{\an8}For some reason,
it made me type in the words
2030
01:46:01,905 --> 01:46:03,571
"Black on white crime."
2031
01:46:03,605 --> 01:46:08,371
NOBLE:
We know from Dylann Roof's own
words that the first site
2032
01:46:08,405 --> 01:46:11,138
{\an1}that he comes to is the Council
of Conservative Citizens.
2033
01:46:11,171 --> 01:46:13,271
{\an1}The CCC is an organization
2034
01:46:13,305 --> 01:46:17,338
{\an1}that the Southern Poverty Law
Center calls vehemently racist.
2035
01:46:17,371 --> 01:46:20,638
{\an8}And that's,
that was it, ever since then.
2036
01:46:20,671 --> 01:46:22,705
NOBLE:
Let's say he had been
my student.
2037
01:46:22,738 --> 01:46:25,838
{\an1}I could've just immediately
said, "Did you know that
2038
01:46:25,871 --> 01:46:28,171
{\an1}that phrase is kind of
a racist red herring?"
2039
01:46:28,205 --> 01:46:33,271
{\an1}The FBI statistics show us that
the majority of white people
2040
01:46:33,305 --> 01:46:36,505
{\an1}are actually killed
by other white people.
2041
01:46:36,538 --> 01:46:39,705
{\an1}But instead, he goes to the
internet and he finds the CCC,
2042
01:46:39,738 --> 01:46:43,105
{\an1}and he goes down a rabbit hole
of white supremacist websites.
2043
01:46:43,138 --> 01:46:45,438
{\an7}Did you read a lot?
Did you read books,
2044
01:46:45,471 --> 01:46:48,071
{\an7}or watch videos, or watch movies
or YouTube,
2045
01:46:48,105 --> 01:46:49,138
{\an7}or anything like that
2046
01:46:49,171 --> 01:46:51,938
{\an7}specifically about
that subject matter?
2047
01:46:54,805 --> 01:46:57,305
{\an8}No, it was pretty much
just reading articles.
2048
01:46:57,338 --> 01:46:59,571
{\an7}Reading articles?
Yeah.
2049
01:46:59,605 --> 01:47:01,047
{\an8}NOBLE:
And we know that shortly
thereafter,
2050
01:47:01,071 --> 01:47:05,238
{\an1}he goes into a church,
murders nine African Americans,
2051
01:47:05,271 --> 01:47:08,805
{\an1}and says his intent
is to start a race war.
2052
01:47:08,838 --> 01:47:12,305
♪
2053
01:47:14,005 --> 01:47:17,605
{\an7}This is not an atypical
possibility.
2054
01:47:17,638 --> 01:47:21,305
{\an7}When you don't get a
counterpoint to the query,
2055
01:47:21,338 --> 01:47:23,705
{\an7}you don't get Black studies
scholarship,
2056
01:47:23,738 --> 01:47:27,038
{\an1}or FBI statistics, or anything
that would reframe
2057
01:47:27,071 --> 01:47:30,171
{\an1}the very question
that you're asking.
2058
01:47:30,205 --> 01:47:33,638
{\an1}This is an extreme case
of acting upon
2059
01:47:33,671 --> 01:47:36,705
{\an1}white power radicalization,
but this is not unlike
2060
01:47:36,738 --> 01:47:41,838
{\an1}things that are happening right
now every day in search engines,
2061
01:47:41,871 --> 01:47:44,905
{\an1}on Facebook, on Twitter, in Gab.
2062
01:47:44,938 --> 01:47:47,671
{\an1}People are being targeted
and radicalized
2063
01:47:47,705 --> 01:47:50,505
{\an1}in very dangerous ways.
2064
01:47:50,538 --> 01:47:54,438
{\an1}This is what is at stake when
people are so susceptible
2065
01:47:54,471 --> 01:47:59,471
{\an1}to disinformation, hate speech,
hate propaganda in our society.
2066
01:47:59,505 --> 01:48:04,405
♪
2067
01:48:04,438 --> 01:48:07,938
SWEENEY:
Racism itself can't be solved by
technology.
2068
01:48:07,971 --> 01:48:10,771
{\an1}The question is, to what extent
can we make sure technology
2069
01:48:10,805 --> 01:48:12,571
{\an1}doesn't perpetuate it,
2070
01:48:12,605 --> 01:48:15,338
{\an1}doesn't allow harms to be made
because of it?
2071
01:48:15,371 --> 01:48:21,471
{\an1}We need a diverse and inclusive
community in the design stage,
2072
01:48:21,505 --> 01:48:24,771
in the marketing
and business stage,
2073
01:48:24,805 --> 01:48:28,305
{\an1}in the regulatory and journal
stages, as well.
2074
01:48:31,838 --> 01:48:35,271
NOBLE:
I am really interested
in solutions.
2075
01:48:35,305 --> 01:48:37,438
{\an1}It's easy to talk about the
problems,
2076
01:48:37,471 --> 01:48:40,471
{\an1}and it's painful, also, to talk
about the problems.
2077
01:48:40,505 --> 01:48:43,371
{\an1}But that pain and that struggle
should lead us
2078
01:48:43,405 --> 01:48:46,638
{\an1}to thinking about alternatives.
2079
01:48:46,671 --> 01:48:48,514
{\an1}Those are the kind of things
that I like to talk to
2080
01:48:48,538 --> 01:48:51,371
{\an1}other information professionals
and researchers
2081
01:48:51,405 --> 01:48:53,138
{\an1}and librarians about.
2082
01:48:55,538 --> 01:48:57,438
{\an1}As a person who has a name
2083
01:48:57,471 --> 01:48:58,814
{\an1}that doesn't sound like
Jennifer, right?
2084
01:48:58,838 --> 01:49:00,571
{\an1}Or Sarah, or something.
2085
01:49:00,605 --> 01:49:03,071
{\an1}That paper made the difference
for me,
2086
01:49:03,105 --> 01:49:05,371
{\an1}because I was just
this grad student,
2087
01:49:05,405 --> 01:49:08,405
{\an1}and you were this esteemed
Harvard professor,
2088
01:49:08,438 --> 01:49:10,271
{\an1}and you were having these
experiences, too.
2089
01:49:10,305 --> 01:49:13,238
{\an1}When I think about the, like,
the, the foundations
2090
01:49:13,271 --> 01:49:14,805
{\an1}of something like ethical A.I.,
2091
01:49:14,838 --> 01:49:18,805
I go back to you
in that early paper.
2092
01:49:18,838 --> 01:49:20,338
{\an1}I think what I feel
most hopeful about
2093
01:49:20,371 --> 01:49:24,671
{\an1}is that there's this new cottage
industry called ethical A.I.,
2094
01:49:24,705 --> 01:49:28,338
{\an1}and I know that our work is
profoundly tied to that.
2095
01:49:28,371 --> 01:49:30,971
{\an1}But on another level,
I feel like
2096
01:49:31,005 --> 01:49:33,738
{\an1}these predictive technologies
are so much more ubiquitous
2097
01:49:33,771 --> 01:49:35,871
{\an1}than they were ten years ago.
2098
01:49:35,905 --> 01:49:40,338
{\an1}You know, what I find really
painful is that
2099
01:49:40,371 --> 01:49:43,105
{\an1}as we move forward,
it's harder to track.
2100
01:49:43,138 --> 01:49:44,671
{\an1}One thing that becomes clear is,
2101
01:49:44,705 --> 01:49:47,805
{\an1}we could use a heck of a lot
more transparency.
2102
01:49:47,838 --> 01:49:50,605
{\an1}As a computer scientist,
my vision
2103
01:49:50,638 --> 01:49:53,205
{\an1}is, I want society to enjoy
the benefits
2104
01:49:53,238 --> 01:49:56,671
{\an1}of all these new technologies
without these problems.
2105
01:49:56,705 --> 01:49:59,305
{\an1}Technology doesn't have to be
made this way.
2106
01:49:59,338 --> 01:50:01,038
NOBLE:
That's right, that's right.
2107
01:50:01,071 --> 01:50:04,005
{\an1}I see so many more women and
girls of color
2108
01:50:04,038 --> 01:50:06,405
{\an1}interested in these
conversations,
2109
01:50:06,438 --> 01:50:11,171
{\an1}and one of the things that I
also see is how we see things
2110
01:50:11,205 --> 01:50:13,505
{\an1}because we ask different
questions
2111
01:50:13,538 --> 01:50:14,971
{\an1}based on our lived experiences.
2112
01:50:15,005 --> 01:50:17,805
{\an1}Just the fact that the questions
are being raised
2113
01:50:17,838 --> 01:50:21,238
{\an1}means that the space is less
hostile,
2114
01:50:21,271 --> 01:50:23,671
{\an1}means there's an opportunity for
your voice.
2115
01:50:23,705 --> 01:50:25,505
{\an1}And, and the other thing
2116
01:50:25,538 --> 01:50:27,538
{\an1}that's really important about
this work,
2117
01:50:27,571 --> 01:50:29,805
{\an1}it means that it's a new kind of
way of thinking
2118
01:50:29,838 --> 01:50:31,238
{\an1}about computer science.
2119
01:50:31,271 --> 01:50:35,605
{\an1}It's in this conversation with
you that I see a future.
2120
01:50:35,638 --> 01:50:40,838
{\an1}I'm hopeful because it's not
one isolated paper,
2121
01:50:40,871 --> 01:50:42,905
{\an1}but in fact, it's a,
it's a movement
2122
01:50:42,938 --> 01:50:45,905
{\an1}toward asking the right
questions, exposing
2123
01:50:45,938 --> 01:50:48,138
{\an1}the right unforeseen
consequences,
2124
01:50:48,171 --> 01:50:50,771
{\an1}and pushing this forward
towards a solution.
2125
01:50:50,805 --> 01:50:52,771
♪
2126
01:50:52,805 --> 01:50:58,605
NOBLE:
Some questions cannot be
answered instantly.
2127
01:50:58,638 --> 01:51:01,138
{\an1}Some issues we're dealing
with in society,
2128
01:51:01,171 --> 01:51:04,338
we need time
and we need discussion.
2129
01:51:06,871 --> 01:51:10,071
{\an1}How could we look for new logics
and new metaphors
2130
01:51:10,105 --> 01:51:13,838
{\an1}and new ways to get
a bigger picture?
2131
01:51:13,871 --> 01:51:16,105
{\an1}Maybe we could see when we do
that query
2132
01:51:16,138 --> 01:51:19,005
{\an1}that that's just nothing but
propaganda,
2133
01:51:19,038 --> 01:51:20,338
{\an1}and we could even see
2134
01:51:20,371 --> 01:51:23,138
{\an1}the sources of the
disinformation farms.
2135
01:51:23,171 --> 01:51:25,871
{\an1}Maybe we could see
the financial backers.
2136
01:51:25,905 --> 01:51:27,938
{\an1}There's a lot of ways
that we could reimagine
2137
01:51:27,971 --> 01:51:30,205
{\an1}our information landscape.
2138
01:51:30,238 --> 01:51:33,905
{\an1}So, I do feel like
there is some hope.
2139
01:51:33,938 --> 01:51:36,438
♪
2140
01:51:59,038 --> 01:52:04,938
{\an8}♪
2141
01:52:14,171 --> 01:52:18,305
{\an8}ANNOUNCER:
To order this program on DVD,
visit ShopPBS
2142
01:52:18,338 --> 01:52:21,438
{\an7}or call 1-800-PLAY-PBS.
2143
01:52:21,471 --> 01:52:24,138
{\an7}Episodes of "NOVA" are available
with Passport.
2144
01:52:24,171 --> 01:52:27,971
{\an7}"NOVA" is also available
on Amazon Prime Video.
2145
01:52:28,005 --> 01:52:31,871
{\an8}♪
179113
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