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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:15,249 --> 00:00:17,315 (phone ringing tone) 2 00:00:17,384 --> 00:00:20,452 (panting) 3 00:00:26,794 --> 00:00:30,596 (sobbing) 4 00:00:35,069 --> 00:00:37,403 (operator): Toronto ambulance, where do you need us? 5 00:00:37,471 --> 00:00:41,406 (panting, sobbing) 6 00:00:41,475 --> 00:00:44,543 Okay, what address do you need us to come to? 7 00:00:44,611 --> 00:00:46,545 (panting, sobbing) 8 00:00:46,613 --> 00:00:49,013 Is it 150 burrows hall? 9 00:00:49,083 --> 00:00:50,215 (woman): Yes, yes. 10 00:00:50,284 --> 00:00:52,484 (operator): Is that a townhouse complex? 11 00:00:52,486 --> 00:00:53,819 (panting) 12 00:00:53,821 --> 00:00:56,688 What big streets are by there? 13 00:00:56,690 --> 00:01:00,559 (panting, sobbing) 14 00:01:00,627 --> 00:01:04,663 Okay, try and tell me what big streets are by burrows hall. 15 00:01:06,967 --> 00:01:10,168 Said something about her baby. 16 00:01:10,237 --> 00:01:12,638 (operator 2): Sounds like we lost her. 17 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:14,473 (sirens wailing) 18 00:01:19,447 --> 00:01:25,250 (paramedic): Driving in, wind blowing snow, it was cold. 19 00:01:25,252 --> 00:01:28,787 Seemed overcast coming in, but when we got the call, 20 00:01:28,789 --> 00:01:30,388 The skies had cleared up. 21 00:01:30,457 --> 00:01:33,191 It was still cold, still windy, 22 00:01:33,260 --> 00:01:35,294 But it wasn't snowing. 23 00:01:39,934 --> 00:01:44,336 It came in as a medical call, trouble breathing. 24 00:01:44,338 --> 00:01:47,739 So for us, it just seemed like a routine call. 25 00:01:47,741 --> 00:01:49,942 Here we go, done this before. 26 00:01:53,013 --> 00:01:55,447 (sirens wailing) 27 00:01:57,952 --> 00:02:00,285 Me, gino and gary get out 28 00:02:00,354 --> 00:02:03,822 And an ambulance came up and drove around, facing us. 29 00:02:06,426 --> 00:02:09,094 Come around the vehicle and the medic. 30 00:02:09,163 --> 00:02:11,363 I only remember one being there, 31 00:02:11,365 --> 00:02:14,299 Standing by his ambulance with no gear. 32 00:02:14,368 --> 00:02:16,635 And he's not going anywhere. 33 00:02:16,703 --> 00:02:20,038 And the questions arise, you know, what's going on? 34 00:02:20,107 --> 00:02:23,375 Let's, you know, let's go. Then he says, 35 00:02:23,443 --> 00:02:25,711 "well, I'm not going anywhere, 36 00:02:25,713 --> 00:02:28,914 Because got it as a break-and-enter domestic." 37 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:34,118 We said, "what, how come we didn't get any 38 00:02:34,188 --> 00:02:35,453 Information like that?" 39 00:02:35,522 --> 00:02:38,189 Just come over as a troubled breathing call. 40 00:02:38,259 --> 00:02:41,259 So we take it as yeah, you know, you got what information, 41 00:02:41,261 --> 00:02:44,997 We got whatever information, we're moving forward. 42 00:02:49,069 --> 00:02:52,470 We walked to the door, front door, 43 00:02:52,539 --> 00:02:55,274 Proceeded into the hallway. 44 00:02:55,342 --> 00:02:57,242 I see a female individual 45 00:02:57,244 --> 00:03:00,545 Lying in the living room face down. 46 00:03:00,547 --> 00:03:07,486 As I walk towards, she looks up and speaks to me. 47 00:03:07,488 --> 00:03:09,487 She said, "please, don't hurt me." 48 00:03:09,556 --> 00:03:13,091 And then she put her head back down and closed her eyes again. 49 00:03:13,159 --> 00:03:16,028 And it was at that moment that I noticed a young female 50 00:03:16,096 --> 00:03:20,098 Individual on the couch. 51 00:03:20,167 --> 00:03:23,768 She looks about eight years old, maybe ten. 52 00:03:23,837 --> 00:03:27,973 She looks still, at peace, like she's napping. 53 00:03:27,975 --> 00:03:30,242 But her right arm and right hand 54 00:03:30,244 --> 00:03:36,315 Has contorted in a very disturbing and unnatural way. 55 00:03:39,519 --> 00:03:42,287 I check for her pulse and there's no pulse. 56 00:03:45,125 --> 00:03:47,793 (tense music) 57 00:04:00,574 --> 00:04:03,742 (operator): Take deep breaths, tell me slowly what happened. 58 00:04:03,744 --> 00:04:06,944 Help is almost there. (woman sobbing) 59 00:04:07,014 --> 00:04:08,946 You said somebody broke in? 60 00:04:09,016 --> 00:04:11,216 (cindy): I don't know who. 61 00:04:11,218 --> 00:04:13,952 (sobbing) 62 00:04:14,020 --> 00:04:15,386 He did have a gun 63 00:04:15,456 --> 00:04:18,156 And he pulled a sword off the wall. 64 00:04:18,224 --> 00:04:20,892 That's when I grabbed the knives and I throw them. 65 00:04:20,961 --> 00:04:22,361 (reporter 1): Glass in the entranceway, 66 00:04:22,363 --> 00:04:24,429 A table overturned. Police would later find 67 00:04:24,498 --> 00:04:25,697 Drawers that had been opened 68 00:04:25,699 --> 00:04:27,365 But apparently not rummaged through. 69 00:04:27,434 --> 00:04:30,234 Ali told investigators that two masked men 70 00:04:30,304 --> 00:04:31,803 Wearing black coats, black suits and black 71 00:04:31,872 --> 00:04:35,206 Leather shoes forced their way into her townhouse, 72 00:04:35,275 --> 00:04:37,376 Demanding a mysterious package. 73 00:04:37,378 --> 00:04:38,910 (paramedic): We saw their footprints, 74 00:04:38,979 --> 00:04:40,245 So there's no one come in here. 75 00:04:40,314 --> 00:04:45,050 Please get up. Hey! You, get up! 76 00:04:45,052 --> 00:04:46,417 Get off the floor. 77 00:04:46,487 --> 00:04:48,787 (reporter 1): As emergency crews worked on her daughter 78 00:04:48,789 --> 00:04:51,456 On the floor, cindy ali sat on the couch. 79 00:04:51,525 --> 00:04:55,060 She had a blank stare, paramedic sohail bastani testified, 80 00:04:55,128 --> 00:04:57,896 And was not answering questions. 81 00:05:00,801 --> 00:05:02,867 (reporter 2): Two days later, the child who suffered 82 00:05:02,936 --> 00:05:04,770 From cerebral palsy died. 83 00:05:04,772 --> 00:05:07,271 (reporter 3): An autopsy found cynara's official cause of death 84 00:05:07,341 --> 00:05:09,607 Was a brain injury from lack of oxygen, 85 00:05:09,609 --> 00:05:12,811 Caused by cardiac arrest. 86 00:05:12,813 --> 00:05:15,880 (man): All the neighbours are in total disbelief 87 00:05:15,882 --> 00:05:17,415 That it actually happened. 88 00:05:17,484 --> 00:05:20,552 (reporter 1): Others are taking the allegations very seriously. 89 00:05:20,620 --> 00:05:22,554 (woman): I'm actually afraid that they may come back. 90 00:05:22,622 --> 00:05:24,489 Maybe get another house, I don't know, 91 00:05:24,558 --> 00:05:26,558 But it's really frightening. 92 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:28,360 (reporter 2): And of the letter, purportedly written 93 00:05:28,428 --> 00:05:31,162 By the bad guys, saying they'd been sent there 94 00:05:31,231 --> 00:05:33,698 By the boss and had gotten the wrong house 95 00:05:33,767 --> 00:05:35,533 Before signing off with a smiley face. 96 00:05:35,602 --> 00:05:38,437 Asked by her defence lawyer if she wrote the letter, 97 00:05:38,439 --> 00:05:39,504 Ali said no. 98 00:05:39,573 --> 00:05:41,840 (frank skubic): The death of cynara ali was a planned 99 00:05:41,908 --> 00:05:43,108 And deliberate act. 100 00:05:43,110 --> 00:05:44,176 And we're alleging that act 101 00:05:44,244 --> 00:05:47,412 Was perpetrated by cindy ali. 102 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:49,781 - Why would I want to hurt my own child? 103 00:05:49,783 --> 00:05:52,250 (reporter 1): And yet, when the home invaders left, 104 00:05:52,252 --> 00:05:54,219 It was cynara who was left to die 105 00:05:54,221 --> 00:05:56,154 And her mother left to live. 106 00:05:56,156 --> 00:05:58,523 Indeed it was a story so fantastical 107 00:05:58,525 --> 00:06:01,659 That it was for 12 jurors, unbelievable. 108 00:06:01,728 --> 00:06:04,562 10 hours of deliberations were all they needed. 109 00:06:04,631 --> 00:06:08,500 - The jury found her guilty of first degree murder. 110 00:06:08,568 --> 00:06:10,869 - What's your reaction to this, sir? 111 00:06:13,474 --> 00:06:16,408 - Were you able to communicate with cindy at all? 112 00:06:18,745 --> 00:06:21,546 (reporter 1): Off camera, cindy ali husband told me 113 00:06:21,548 --> 00:06:23,615 He's standing by his wife. 114 00:06:23,617 --> 00:06:27,886 Saying quote, "that's what a husband is supposed to do." 115 00:08:10,857 --> 00:08:13,324 (indistinct conversation) 116 00:08:13,393 --> 00:08:15,059 (woman): And father, we thank you. 117 00:08:15,061 --> 00:08:17,195 We know as you are here with us. 118 00:08:17,197 --> 00:08:20,465 And father, bring cindy before you. 119 00:08:20,533 --> 00:08:23,000 Father, we pray for that special touch for her. 120 00:08:23,070 --> 00:08:25,203 You alone know, lord, how she feels, lord, 121 00:08:25,272 --> 00:08:26,671 What she's going through, lord. 122 00:08:26,740 --> 00:08:29,207 Father help us to know god that she's not lost, 123 00:08:29,209 --> 00:08:31,209 She's not forgotten and she's not forsaken. 124 00:08:31,278 --> 00:08:35,146 (sheela): It was a long grieving process. 125 00:08:35,215 --> 00:08:40,018 Many stages of shock and disbelief and then anger. 126 00:08:40,020 --> 00:08:42,086 It shook our faith too, I should say, 127 00:08:42,155 --> 00:08:45,223 If I can be real about it. 128 00:08:45,291 --> 00:08:47,759 We know the family so well. As a church family, 129 00:08:47,827 --> 00:08:49,361 They were a vital part, 130 00:08:49,429 --> 00:08:51,429 They are a vital part of our church family, 131 00:08:51,431 --> 00:08:55,567 So for us it's not comprehensible. 132 00:08:55,569 --> 00:08:58,102 We've searched our hearts, and bottom line, 133 00:08:58,171 --> 00:09:00,539 We know that truth always prevails. 134 00:09:00,541 --> 00:09:03,174 (singing) โ™ช when her heart 135 00:09:03,176 --> 00:09:05,777 โ™ช is overwhelmed 136 00:09:05,845 --> 00:09:09,314 โ™ช lead her to the rock 137 00:09:09,316 --> 00:09:13,985 โ™ช that is higher than she is 138 00:09:14,053 --> 00:09:18,823 โ™ช that is higher than we are โ™ช 139 00:09:21,527 --> 00:09:24,762 Because she will feel overwhelmed, yeah? 140 00:09:24,831 --> 00:09:27,732 She'll feel everybody has forgotten her. 141 00:09:29,536 --> 00:09:31,869 (jim rankin): I think it's pretty rare in a case 142 00:09:31,938 --> 00:09:35,540 Where someone's been convicted of first degree murder 143 00:09:35,542 --> 00:09:38,743 To have a group of 50, 60, 70, 144 00:09:38,812 --> 00:09:41,746 80, 100 people that get together regularly 145 00:09:41,815 --> 00:09:46,618 To discuss the plight that cindy finds herself in. 146 00:09:46,620 --> 00:09:48,553 - Emotionally, physically, spiritually, 147 00:09:48,622 --> 00:09:51,756 And we ask father, that you will keep her. 148 00:09:51,758 --> 00:09:55,360 You will sustain her, o god, until she comes back 149 00:09:55,428 --> 00:09:57,295 And be with us, o god. 150 00:10:05,304 --> 00:10:08,272 - I covered a little bit of robert latimer. 151 00:10:08,274 --> 00:10:10,441 That was a clear case of a father 152 00:10:10,510 --> 00:10:13,445 Believing he was putting his daughter out of misery. 153 00:10:13,447 --> 00:10:15,046 And it was a mercy killing case, 154 00:10:15,115 --> 00:10:17,982 And he went away to jail for a long time. 155 00:10:17,984 --> 00:10:19,651 Canadians will remember that case. 156 00:10:19,653 --> 00:10:21,452 It's like, oh okay, disabled daughter, 157 00:10:21,521 --> 00:10:23,755 Mom charged with killing. 158 00:10:23,757 --> 00:10:25,589 Kind of makes sense. 159 00:10:25,659 --> 00:10:29,194 I think that's where a lot of people enter into this story 160 00:10:29,196 --> 00:10:33,865 And then they might just get stuck there. 161 00:10:33,867 --> 00:10:37,935 As a journalist, I'm looking for all the shades of grey 162 00:10:38,004 --> 00:10:40,739 That are in the story. 163 00:10:40,741 --> 00:10:43,675 There's the intriguing, mysterious story 164 00:10:43,677 --> 00:10:46,745 Of the home invasion. And the story that cindy told, 165 00:10:46,813 --> 00:10:51,615 And then that story becomes a problem for her at the trial. 166 00:10:51,617 --> 00:10:56,287 The letter that arrived addressed to the family. 167 00:10:56,356 --> 00:10:57,889 Very unusual. 168 00:11:01,027 --> 00:11:03,695 In cindy's case, eight of the 12 jurors 169 00:11:03,697 --> 00:11:07,031 Were white and neither of the remaining four 170 00:11:07,100 --> 00:11:08,699 Looked like cindy. 171 00:11:08,701 --> 00:11:11,169 How did she come across to a jury 172 00:11:11,171 --> 00:11:14,272 That didn't look like her? 173 00:11:14,340 --> 00:11:16,040 If you're just skimming headlines, 174 00:11:16,042 --> 00:11:17,509 There's a lot you can miss. 175 00:11:17,511 --> 00:11:20,111 And then follow the journey to where we're at now, 176 00:11:20,179 --> 00:11:21,446 It's not over. 177 00:11:21,514 --> 00:11:23,682 There's going to be an appeal. 178 00:11:25,318 --> 00:11:28,386 The stakes of this appeal are whether or not 179 00:11:28,455 --> 00:11:31,589 She will have her conviction quashed. 180 00:11:31,591 --> 00:11:34,459 If they fail on all the grounds that they're arguing, 181 00:11:34,461 --> 00:11:38,396 Then the conviction stands. 182 00:11:38,464 --> 00:11:41,199 This is a really important juncture. 183 00:12:29,382 --> 00:12:31,115 (james lockyer): You're always concerned about 184 00:12:31,117 --> 00:12:33,684 Losing an appeal. 185 00:12:33,686 --> 00:12:35,920 There's no sure winners. 186 00:12:35,989 --> 00:12:36,788 You quickly learn that, 187 00:12:37,123 --> 00:12:41,526 And I've been doing this for more than 40 years now. 188 00:12:43,563 --> 00:12:46,931 I think it's unlikely that the appeal 189 00:12:46,933 --> 00:12:50,235 Will result in a full-blown acquittal for her. 190 00:12:50,303 --> 00:12:52,670 Much more like they'd order a new trial, 191 00:12:52,672 --> 00:12:54,539 Whether on a charge of first degree 192 00:12:54,607 --> 00:12:57,942 Or a lesser charge, perhaps of second degree. 193 00:12:58,011 --> 00:13:02,013 If we are to win the appeal, but that's a big assumption 194 00:13:02,081 --> 00:13:03,681 In the first place. 195 00:13:03,750 --> 00:13:07,552 - So when did you first meet cindy? 196 00:13:07,620 --> 00:13:11,222 (james): In montreal, about four or five months 197 00:13:11,224 --> 00:13:12,423 After she was convicted. 198 00:13:12,425 --> 00:13:15,827 - Okay and she was sent there because, she had troubles... 199 00:13:15,895 --> 00:13:17,829 - She had tried to commit suicide a couple of times. 200 00:13:17,897 --> 00:13:22,033 - Exactly. What do you think of cindy? 201 00:13:22,101 --> 00:13:25,703 - I mean, I think I probably... 202 00:13:25,705 --> 00:13:29,640 In fact, I was unfair to her when I met her in montreal, 203 00:13:29,709 --> 00:13:33,177 Because I had discounted in my own mind 204 00:13:33,179 --> 00:13:35,246 The home invasion theory. 205 00:13:35,314 --> 00:13:37,582 And I gave her a rough time about it. 206 00:13:37,584 --> 00:13:41,786 - People have this notion of like, okay, really? 207 00:13:41,854 --> 00:13:44,855 Two intruders came into your house, wrong address, 208 00:13:44,924 --> 00:13:48,225 Dressed in black, their skin is black. 209 00:13:48,295 --> 00:13:49,594 You dive in deeper, 210 00:13:49,662 --> 00:13:50,928 There was an eye witness who saw two men 211 00:13:50,997 --> 00:13:53,531 Who looked quite a bit like those two men 212 00:13:53,533 --> 00:13:57,669 Right near the home, right at the right time. 213 00:14:01,074 --> 00:14:02,940 (phone ringing tone) 214 00:14:03,009 --> 00:14:04,942 Back then, in 2011, 215 00:14:04,944 --> 00:14:07,111 You were living at 150 burrows, right? 216 00:14:07,113 --> 00:14:09,214 (indistinct chattering) 217 00:14:10,617 --> 00:14:13,084 The opposite side. So you could see their front door 218 00:14:13,152 --> 00:14:15,419 From your front door? 219 00:14:15,488 --> 00:14:17,155 Right, you're looking right at it. 220 00:14:17,157 --> 00:14:19,290 Do you remember what you were doing that day? 221 00:14:21,127 --> 00:14:22,693 Okay, so you're going to the bank, 222 00:14:22,762 --> 00:14:24,629 Coming out of the underground. 223 00:14:24,631 --> 00:14:29,667 Does the door open? The big door to let you out? 224 00:14:29,736 --> 00:14:31,235 Automatically, yeah. 225 00:14:31,304 --> 00:14:33,671 After you go over a little thing on the ground. 226 00:14:38,110 --> 00:14:39,043 (chris hicks): Ms. Chariyaudom, 227 00:14:39,112 --> 00:14:41,045 As you were driving out of the garage, 228 00:14:41,047 --> 00:14:42,647 Did you see anybody? 229 00:14:43,182 --> 00:14:45,650 - There's a line on the floor that indicates 230 00:14:45,652 --> 00:14:48,920 Where the sensor operates to open the door, 231 00:14:48,988 --> 00:14:51,456 And as I was crossing that to go out, 232 00:14:51,524 --> 00:14:55,326 I noticed two people standing at the door. 233 00:14:57,530 --> 00:15:00,864 - And so you saw one person only, right? 234 00:15:00,934 --> 00:15:04,001 Or was there two? There was two. 235 00:15:04,070 --> 00:15:07,405 Okay, you only saw one of them well. 236 00:15:07,407 --> 00:15:10,475 (james): Two men, both strangers, 237 00:15:10,543 --> 00:15:13,344 She hasn't seen them before in the complex. 238 00:15:15,148 --> 00:15:17,348 Similar descriptions in height, 239 00:15:17,350 --> 00:15:20,585 Similar descriptions in clothing colour. 240 00:15:25,091 --> 00:15:27,191 If you look to the left there, 241 00:15:27,193 --> 00:15:28,927 You can see a door. 242 00:15:30,897 --> 00:15:32,630 That in fact is the door 243 00:15:32,698 --> 00:15:36,567 Leading out of the basement of the appellant's apartment. 244 00:15:36,569 --> 00:15:40,571 Which is the door that the appellant said 245 00:15:40,573 --> 00:15:43,474 The home invaders fled through. 246 00:15:50,116 --> 00:15:51,315 She was with her three children, 247 00:15:51,317 --> 00:15:54,051 Heading out from the underground parking lot 248 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:55,720 To go to the bank. 249 00:15:56,523 --> 00:15:59,657 (nina): When the police first asked me at what time I left, 250 00:15:59,659 --> 00:16:03,327 I had told them it was about 11 o'clock. 251 00:16:03,329 --> 00:16:05,830 I couldn't remember the time exactly. 252 00:16:05,832 --> 00:16:08,866 And then I remembered that I had this receipt 253 00:16:08,935 --> 00:16:12,936 Which was able to indicate more precisely when I left there. 254 00:16:13,006 --> 00:16:17,208 Because on the receipt at 11:25. 255 00:16:17,477 --> 00:16:21,278 (james): The bank receipt was marked as 11:25 am, 256 00:16:21,347 --> 00:16:24,215 She reckoned it would be about five minutes from the car park 257 00:16:24,217 --> 00:16:29,020 To the bank, so that would place her leaving the car park 258 00:16:29,088 --> 00:16:31,856 At around 11:20 in the morning. 259 00:16:31,924 --> 00:16:36,827 911 call was at 11:37, 260 00:16:36,829 --> 00:16:38,496 Precisely around the time 261 00:16:38,498 --> 00:16:42,166 That the appellant claimed the home invasion began. 262 00:16:42,235 --> 00:16:44,234 (operator): You said somebody broke in? 263 00:16:44,304 --> 00:16:47,939 (cindy): I don't know who. (sobbing) 264 00:16:50,710 --> 00:16:53,111 (james): And let's bear in mind 265 00:16:53,179 --> 00:16:54,645 That the appellant, 266 00:16:54,713 --> 00:16:56,714 When she told the police about the home invasion, 267 00:16:56,716 --> 00:17:00,718 Would have had no idea about mrs. Chariyaudom. 268 00:17:00,787 --> 00:17:05,490 About what she was ultimately to tell the police. 269 00:17:07,660 --> 00:17:11,662 (lawyer): And obviously you were telling the truth to the police, correct? 270 00:17:13,332 --> 00:17:16,734 (nina): Yes, I said what I saw. 271 00:17:19,472 --> 00:17:22,406 - Why was it important that you testified? 272 00:17:22,408 --> 00:17:24,609 I mean, you saw some people around the same time 273 00:17:24,677 --> 00:17:28,913 That cindy said intruders came into her house. 274 00:17:30,583 --> 00:17:33,284 No, you told the truth, but you don't think 275 00:17:33,352 --> 00:17:35,385 Anyone believed you? 276 00:17:35,455 --> 00:17:38,222 - They did their best to downplay her evidence, 277 00:17:38,224 --> 00:17:41,225 If not treat it as a red herring. 278 00:17:41,227 --> 00:17:42,493 "in the face of all the evidence 279 00:17:42,495 --> 00:17:44,429 Demonstrating the home invasion story 280 00:17:44,497 --> 00:17:46,430 To be just that, a story. 281 00:17:46,499 --> 00:17:48,432 And the suggestion is that somehow these two men 282 00:17:48,501 --> 00:17:50,368 Are the home invaders. Why? 283 00:17:50,370 --> 00:17:52,369 Because they have very dark skin. 284 00:17:52,438 --> 00:17:54,238 This evidence, ladies and gentlemen 285 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:55,573 Is of no moment whatsoever 286 00:17:55,575 --> 00:17:58,509 And not worthy of your consideration." 287 00:18:01,914 --> 00:18:03,381 (jim): Bottom line is, you just went in 288 00:18:03,449 --> 00:18:05,683 And told exactly what you saw. 289 00:18:07,987 --> 00:18:11,756 And... Your english is good. 290 00:18:12,024 --> 00:18:13,924 What do you think of the outcome? 291 00:18:13,993 --> 00:18:16,127 She's in jail for life 292 00:18:16,129 --> 00:18:18,930 With no chance of parole for 25 years. 293 00:18:18,998 --> 00:18:21,432 (indistinct chattering) 294 00:18:24,203 --> 00:18:25,470 Yeah. 295 00:18:28,408 --> 00:18:30,441 Okay nina, take care. 296 00:18:37,350 --> 00:18:40,885 She said something to the effect of what happened in there 297 00:18:40,953 --> 00:18:44,889 Is between cindy and god. 298 00:18:50,296 --> 00:18:52,563 I've heard you've become like a mother figure in here. 299 00:18:52,632 --> 00:18:54,432 - That's right. - What's that like? 300 00:18:54,500 --> 00:18:56,300 What's that relationship like? 301 00:18:56,302 --> 00:18:57,501 - I have a good relationship 302 00:18:57,503 --> 00:18:59,436 With the people that I live with. 303 00:18:59,505 --> 00:19:01,172 They don't judge me. 304 00:19:01,174 --> 00:19:02,506 - Yeah. 305 00:19:02,574 --> 00:19:04,575 - They're like, "you're getting out soon, don't worry, 306 00:19:04,644 --> 00:19:06,177 You're going to go home." 307 00:19:06,179 --> 00:19:09,580 I wish I had that confidence in you guys. 308 00:19:09,582 --> 00:19:12,249 - You've touched on it, the thing that keeps you going 309 00:19:12,318 --> 00:19:17,054 Is the hope. I know that there's times when you... 310 00:19:17,056 --> 00:19:18,322 - I lost hope. 311 00:19:18,324 --> 00:19:19,790 What was my reason to pray? 312 00:19:19,792 --> 00:19:22,126 What was my reason to go to church? 313 00:19:22,128 --> 00:19:23,794 Why am I doing it? 314 00:19:23,796 --> 00:19:27,765 I've been good all my life, I've been doing it and now... 315 00:19:29,668 --> 00:19:31,468 Alan is pretty good at this. 316 00:19:31,470 --> 00:19:33,538 He never gave up. 317 00:19:35,542 --> 00:19:39,143 No matter how much I gave up, he never did. 318 00:19:39,145 --> 00:19:41,945 (choir singing) โ™ช he is holy 319 00:19:42,015 --> 00:19:45,049 โ™ช he is holy โ™ช 320 00:19:50,757 --> 00:19:53,157 (alan): We could've been split in a million different ways 321 00:19:53,159 --> 00:19:54,491 After that verdict. 322 00:19:54,493 --> 00:19:55,760 But we stuck together as a family 323 00:19:55,762 --> 00:19:58,129 And we fought together as a family. 324 00:20:00,032 --> 00:20:01,032 We'll be successful. 325 00:20:01,167 --> 00:20:04,235 I don't know what form or what that will look like, 326 00:20:04,237 --> 00:20:06,070 But we will be successful. 327 00:20:08,808 --> 00:20:11,709 Krissy has embarked on a new chapter in her life. 328 00:20:11,711 --> 00:20:14,045 She moved out of the city of toronto. 329 00:20:14,047 --> 00:20:17,782 I spoke to her this morning and she's pretty upbeat. 330 00:20:17,784 --> 00:20:19,917 She's enjoying the holidays that's coming up. 331 00:20:19,986 --> 00:20:23,387 Amanda's just recovering from a minor surgery, 332 00:20:23,389 --> 00:20:26,724 Also trying to make things work well. 333 00:20:28,728 --> 00:20:31,795 And then jadie, that's the one I'm always worried about a bit. 334 00:20:31,864 --> 00:20:34,465 Because I think she takes this time of the year, 335 00:20:34,533 --> 00:20:37,535 A very difficult time of the year for her. 336 00:20:37,603 --> 00:20:40,203 She misses her mother, like all of us. 337 00:20:40,273 --> 00:20:41,539 So... 338 00:20:41,541 --> 00:20:43,274 She's my work in progress. 339 00:20:43,342 --> 00:20:46,043 (dog whimpers) 340 00:21:03,896 --> 00:21:05,896 (jade): I feel like a blob. 341 00:21:05,965 --> 00:21:09,200 Like, if I'm not working and I'm not out there, 342 00:21:09,268 --> 00:21:11,569 I kind of just feel like... 343 00:21:15,041 --> 00:21:16,941 I just kind of feel stuck. 344 00:21:22,715 --> 00:21:27,217 Amanda's birthday was in November. 345 00:21:27,286 --> 00:21:29,453 She wanted to get them done, 346 00:21:29,455 --> 00:21:31,922 But it was costing like 500 dollars 347 00:21:31,990 --> 00:21:36,326 And I was like, let's see if we can make them. 348 00:21:36,396 --> 00:21:38,663 It took me two hours a flower. 349 00:21:38,665 --> 00:21:41,532 It's not that hard, it's just time consuming 350 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:43,601 'cause you have to like... 351 00:21:43,603 --> 00:21:45,402 Cut every petal out, 352 00:21:45,471 --> 00:21:47,438 Then you have to fold it, glue it. 353 00:21:47,506 --> 00:21:50,608 Yeah, that spray paint almost killed me. 354 00:21:56,281 --> 00:21:59,917 Yeah. Only the special ones. 355 00:22:08,293 --> 00:22:09,960 Do I remember? Yes, I do. 356 00:22:09,962 --> 00:22:12,696 I do remember my 16th, we were in niagara falls 357 00:22:12,698 --> 00:22:15,166 For my 16th birthday. 358 00:22:15,168 --> 00:22:18,702 I actually, so... 359 00:22:18,704 --> 00:22:20,771 That trip, I actually won that trip. 360 00:22:20,839 --> 00:22:23,240 It was just so random, because... 361 00:22:23,242 --> 00:22:26,043 So, me krissy and devina, we went to the movies 362 00:22:26,112 --> 00:22:27,978 In scarborough town centre and there was this lady 363 00:22:28,046 --> 00:22:33,450 Doing surveys and you know when people stop you for surveys 364 00:22:33,519 --> 00:22:35,585 And try to get your attention with this big, 365 00:22:35,655 --> 00:22:38,322 "you can win this and this"? And so we're like, 366 00:22:38,324 --> 00:22:41,525 Let's just do it. 367 00:22:41,527 --> 00:22:44,595 (alan): Nice suite in the hotel. 368 00:22:44,663 --> 00:22:46,697 Dinner paid for. 369 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,668 It was too perfect. 370 00:22:52,071 --> 00:22:54,538 I just didn't let on to my family and stuff, 371 00:22:54,607 --> 00:22:56,740 I just left them be. Let them enjoy the moment. 372 00:22:56,809 --> 00:23:01,745 It's my kid's 16th birthday, so let's just enjoy the moment. 373 00:23:01,747 --> 00:23:03,881 But in the back of my mind 374 00:23:03,949 --> 00:23:06,350 I always knew something was up. 375 00:23:07,953 --> 00:23:10,888 They had the time of their life, they enjoyed everything, 376 00:23:10,956 --> 00:23:13,824 And then I got a call 3 o'clock in the morning 377 00:23:13,893 --> 00:23:15,959 From my alarm company. 378 00:23:16,028 --> 00:23:21,499 And my alarm company said to me that the alarm was triggered 379 00:23:21,501 --> 00:23:25,702 In the house or there was a trouble alert. 380 00:23:25,704 --> 00:23:27,838 And I said no, it shouldn't be because nobody's supposed 381 00:23:27,907 --> 00:23:29,774 To be there. Maybe check and see something. 382 00:23:29,842 --> 00:23:32,642 So I called back, 383 00:23:32,712 --> 00:23:34,912 And the guy said, "well, we're seeing something, 384 00:23:34,980 --> 00:23:36,513 But I don't think it's anything anymore. 385 00:23:36,582 --> 00:23:37,781 If you need any more information 386 00:23:37,850 --> 00:23:40,717 Just talk to my supervisor." I said okay, don't worry about it, 387 00:23:40,786 --> 00:23:42,052 I don't need to talk to your supervisor. 388 00:23:42,121 --> 00:23:43,520 If you guys are on top of it, 389 00:23:43,589 --> 00:23:45,389 Then I am fine with that. 390 00:23:45,457 --> 00:23:47,057 Right there and then, 391 00:23:47,059 --> 00:23:49,427 I knew exactly what was happening. 392 00:23:51,797 --> 00:23:53,197 (jim): Did you think that they were listening 393 00:23:53,199 --> 00:23:55,065 To your phone call? (cindy): Oh yeah, definitely. 394 00:23:55,067 --> 00:23:57,668 - Yeah? - Yeah. Definitely. 395 00:23:57,670 --> 00:23:58,735 And it was hard, 396 00:23:58,804 --> 00:24:03,607 It was like you're living with people watching you 24/7, 397 00:24:03,609 --> 00:24:05,142 Listening to your conversation. 398 00:24:05,144 --> 00:24:08,078 And I felt violated, I felt it wasn't right. 399 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,814 I would get really emotional about it because it's not fair. 400 00:24:10,816 --> 00:24:13,451 It's not fair to my family. It's not fair to me. 401 00:24:17,690 --> 00:24:20,224 Sorry. - No, that's okay. 402 00:24:22,828 --> 00:24:25,029 Again, I'm so sorry to have to ask you 403 00:24:25,097 --> 00:24:26,830 To go through everything again. 404 00:24:26,899 --> 00:24:30,234 - I will do whatever it takes to get out of this place. 405 00:24:30,302 --> 00:24:33,938 I don't care how much time I have to tell my story. 406 00:24:35,707 --> 00:24:38,308 - She's up for appeal in the new year 407 00:24:38,377 --> 00:24:39,710 And I'm just going back, 408 00:24:39,712 --> 00:24:41,678 Trying to get in touch with some key people 409 00:24:41,747 --> 00:24:43,914 Who were part of the trial. 410 00:24:43,916 --> 00:24:45,382 So the first one is bujokas. 411 00:24:45,451 --> 00:24:50,588 - There's a couple of them. - And the first name semahj. 412 00:24:50,656 --> 00:24:53,123 S-e-m-a-h-j. 413 00:24:53,125 --> 00:24:55,059 When it comes to the first responders, 414 00:24:55,127 --> 00:24:57,595 The first firefighter is a pivotal 415 00:24:57,597 --> 00:24:59,629 Character in the story. 416 00:24:59,631 --> 00:25:02,533 He comes in and from the beginning, 417 00:25:02,535 --> 00:25:05,803 He doesn't believe that there has been a home invasion. 418 00:25:09,408 --> 00:25:11,609 (lawyer): I'm going to ask you to the best of your ability 419 00:25:11,677 --> 00:25:14,278 If you can identify the voices we hear. 420 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:15,613 (man): Okay. 421 00:25:15,615 --> 00:25:16,547 (doorbell ringing) 422 00:25:16,615 --> 00:25:18,549 (operator): You need to let them in, okay? 423 00:25:18,617 --> 00:25:20,684 (man): Hello, hello?! 424 00:25:30,229 --> 00:25:31,262 Hello! 425 00:25:34,367 --> 00:25:37,167 (indistinct chatter on recording) 426 00:25:45,378 --> 00:25:49,513 (cindy): Please don't hurt! Please, please don't hurt me! 427 00:25:49,582 --> 00:25:50,780 (panting) 428 00:25:50,850 --> 00:25:53,450 Where's my baby? Where's the baby? 429 00:25:53,986 --> 00:25:57,121 - At this moment I can't recall whether I said, 430 00:25:57,123 --> 00:25:59,522 "don't worry I'm not going to hurt you." 431 00:25:59,592 --> 00:26:02,992 I would think that I would have said something like that. 432 00:26:03,062 --> 00:26:04,895 That's in my nature. In my job. 433 00:26:04,897 --> 00:26:07,530 Like to say to look, I'm there to help. 434 00:26:08,266 --> 00:26:11,135 (operator): Hang up your phone, okay? Hang up. 435 00:26:11,203 --> 00:26:14,605 (bujokas): There's background voices and stuff like that. 436 00:26:14,673 --> 00:26:15,806 Who are those people? 437 00:26:15,808 --> 00:26:18,609 Like I'm hearing other noises that I don't recognize. 438 00:26:18,677 --> 00:26:21,478 (lawyer): I think that might be the dispatch. 439 00:26:21,547 --> 00:26:24,481 - Oh okay! So that's the-- 440 00:26:24,550 --> 00:26:27,150 That's the ems dispatch recording, okay. 441 00:26:27,219 --> 00:26:29,953 So we're hearing background noise of other people 442 00:26:30,022 --> 00:26:31,822 That aren't actually there. 443 00:26:31,890 --> 00:26:33,757 - Could be. - Which is very confusing. 444 00:26:34,026 --> 00:26:36,427 (indistinct chatter on recording) 445 00:26:37,597 --> 00:26:41,498 I notice a young female individual on a couch. 446 00:26:41,500 --> 00:26:44,301 As I turn my head, there she is. 447 00:26:44,303 --> 00:26:47,771 But what caught my attention was, how the hand 448 00:26:47,839 --> 00:26:52,242 Was turned over on itself and just deformed. 449 00:26:52,244 --> 00:26:55,813 It was very disturbing and unnatural. 450 00:26:57,883 --> 00:27:01,518 That sends up a big alert in my head, 451 00:27:01,586 --> 00:27:04,054 Something's not right here. 452 00:27:04,123 --> 00:27:07,391 So I leave the female and I go over to the child. 453 00:27:07,459 --> 00:27:09,192 Her eyes are closed. 454 00:27:09,261 --> 00:27:12,463 I check for a pulse. There's no pulse. 455 00:27:12,465 --> 00:27:14,999 (distant shouting) 456 00:27:15,334 --> 00:27:16,800 Okay pause. 457 00:27:16,869 --> 00:27:19,202 I'm actually trying to back up. 458 00:27:19,271 --> 00:27:21,739 And the female on the floor is preventing me 459 00:27:21,741 --> 00:27:23,874 From backing up away from the couch 460 00:27:23,942 --> 00:27:25,943 To place the child down. 461 00:27:26,611 --> 00:27:30,514 Lady, get up! Hey, you, get up! 462 00:27:30,516 --> 00:27:33,083 Get off the floor. 463 00:27:33,085 --> 00:27:34,685 There are no footprints to the front. 464 00:27:34,687 --> 00:27:35,686 Don't bullshit me. 465 00:27:35,688 --> 00:27:38,288 The unknown male, "there's no footprints", 466 00:27:38,356 --> 00:27:39,556 That's myself. 467 00:27:40,025 --> 00:27:43,493 The unknown male, "get off the floor," that's myself. 468 00:27:43,495 --> 00:27:46,497 (lawyer): There are no footprints at the front, don't bullshit me? 469 00:27:46,565 --> 00:27:48,032 (bujokas): Yep. That's myself. 470 00:27:48,034 --> 00:27:50,367 - Take it when you said, "don't bullshit me," 471 00:27:50,436 --> 00:27:53,036 That was you getting upset? - Don't bullshit me, 472 00:27:53,105 --> 00:27:56,773 Yeah, is me upset because I know that she can move. 473 00:27:56,842 --> 00:27:59,309 I know that she's alert and awake. 474 00:27:59,845 --> 00:28:03,580 I kick her foot jump to make her know that 475 00:28:03,649 --> 00:28:06,850 This is what I want to move. If-- I mean if-- 476 00:28:06,919 --> 00:28:08,384 To me it's an obvious thing. 477 00:28:08,454 --> 00:28:12,489 If I kick your foot, that's what you're going to move out of the way. 478 00:28:12,558 --> 00:28:15,526 And she doesn't move it at all. 479 00:28:15,528 --> 00:28:16,927 And I'm very frustrated. 480 00:28:16,995 --> 00:28:20,063 Here I have a child with vital signs absent 481 00:28:20,065 --> 00:28:22,199 That I need to revive. 482 00:28:22,201 --> 00:28:26,737 And this individual is preventing me from doing so. 483 00:28:26,805 --> 00:28:29,206 And I'm not happy about it at all. 484 00:28:29,274 --> 00:28:31,407 - Sir I'm just going to clarify a few things, 485 00:28:31,477 --> 00:28:32,342 You're not a medical doctor? 486 00:28:32,611 --> 00:28:35,678 - Uh, I'm trained in medical procedures. Yes, I am. 487 00:28:35,748 --> 00:28:37,147 - Okay, but you're not a medical doctor. 488 00:28:37,216 --> 00:28:39,149 - No, I'm not a doctor. - Okay and the... 489 00:28:39,151 --> 00:28:42,352 You checking her for injuries was basically a pat down? 490 00:28:42,421 --> 00:28:46,022 - Uh yep. And well more than a pat down. 491 00:28:46,024 --> 00:28:48,758 I check for breathing, circulation, uh, 492 00:28:48,828 --> 00:28:50,693 For other injuries. Yes. 493 00:28:50,695 --> 00:28:52,362 - Okay and she was wearing some clothing? 494 00:28:52,430 --> 00:28:54,831 - She was. - So you wouldn't have been able to see 495 00:28:54,900 --> 00:28:56,433 If she was bruised beneath the clothing? 496 00:28:56,435 --> 00:29:00,437 - Uh... Nope. But that's not a major medical issue. 497 00:29:00,439 --> 00:29:03,573 - You would not have known if she had any internal injuries? 498 00:29:03,575 --> 00:29:06,309 - Uh yes, she would have... 499 00:29:06,378 --> 00:29:09,913 She would have projected internal injuries 500 00:29:09,982 --> 00:29:12,182 Upon my assessment. 501 00:29:12,184 --> 00:29:14,450 Yes, I would have known that. 502 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,855 - So the lot of feedback that you described sir 503 00:29:17,923 --> 00:29:21,925 Is that she said, "ouch" and flinched 504 00:29:21,994 --> 00:29:23,594 When you pinched her nerve 505 00:29:23,596 --> 00:29:27,664 And then otherwise did not respond to your assessment. 506 00:29:27,733 --> 00:29:29,599 - She uh, if-- if she has a broken leg, 507 00:29:29,668 --> 00:29:32,870 And I grab onto her leg as I'm palpating down her leg 508 00:29:32,938 --> 00:29:36,539 And it's broken? I'm going to get extreme feedback. 509 00:29:36,609 --> 00:29:40,077 Me getting feedback of her not moving, her not flinching, 510 00:29:40,145 --> 00:29:44,281 Her not verbalizing that there's pain there tells me a lot! 511 00:29:44,283 --> 00:29:46,216 There's an immense amount of feedback 512 00:29:46,285 --> 00:29:48,085 Of her not doing something! 513 00:29:48,087 --> 00:29:50,020 Maybe it's hard for you to understand, 514 00:29:50,088 --> 00:29:52,689 But I'm getting a lot of feedback from what I'm doing 515 00:29:52,757 --> 00:29:54,224 And assessing which is telling me 516 00:29:54,226 --> 00:29:56,226 What's going on with this individual. 517 00:29:56,295 --> 00:29:58,562 Without her having to speak. 518 00:29:59,364 --> 00:30:01,965 (filmmaker): What do you think he assumed when he walked 519 00:30:02,034 --> 00:30:03,133 Into your home? 520 00:30:03,135 --> 00:30:05,369 - He assumed that cindy 521 00:30:05,371 --> 00:30:08,172 Had something to do with cynara's death. 522 00:30:09,307 --> 00:30:12,776 (amanda): Why did a firefighter determine at the point 523 00:30:12,844 --> 00:30:14,644 What happened? 524 00:30:14,713 --> 00:30:17,013 My mom called you for help. 525 00:30:17,015 --> 00:30:21,184 Is it not their thing to serve and protect? 526 00:30:21,186 --> 00:30:23,053 But then you go listen to that call, 527 00:30:23,121 --> 00:30:25,455 And there was no protection there at all. 528 00:30:27,226 --> 00:30:32,062 (alan): He seems to have a degree in criminology, 529 00:30:32,130 --> 00:30:34,064 Besides being a firefighter. 530 00:30:34,066 --> 00:30:38,468 Because he walked into my house and he kicked my wife. 531 00:30:38,536 --> 00:30:41,071 (man): Hey! You, get up! 532 00:30:41,139 --> 00:30:43,406 Get off the floor. 533 00:30:43,408 --> 00:30:46,410 There are no footprints to the front, don't bullshit me. 534 00:30:46,478 --> 00:30:50,347 (alan): He immediately came to a conclusion 535 00:30:50,349 --> 00:30:55,686 That led this entire investigation into a tunnel. 536 00:31:00,025 --> 00:31:02,292 (jim): Bujokas indicated that there was snow 537 00:31:02,361 --> 00:31:05,161 And why are there no footprints? 538 00:31:05,163 --> 00:31:09,099 What actually are the facts of the weather that day? 539 00:31:09,167 --> 00:31:13,036 This is the view from a cctv camera across the road 540 00:31:13,105 --> 00:31:14,504 From the complex. 541 00:31:14,506 --> 00:31:16,973 What it shows is what kind of weather 542 00:31:17,042 --> 00:31:18,041 They were having that day. 543 00:31:18,043 --> 00:31:22,312 This at the moment is about 10 minutes after 11 am. 544 00:31:22,381 --> 00:31:27,985 The 911 call is placed at 11:37. 545 00:31:27,987 --> 00:31:31,988 There's little flecks of something in the air. 546 00:31:32,057 --> 00:31:35,125 But by no means is it snowing. 547 00:31:35,193 --> 00:31:36,793 This looks like old snow, 548 00:31:36,862 --> 00:31:39,396 Um, that's turned into a bit of ice. 549 00:31:39,398 --> 00:31:42,799 An ice patch, down here too, there's nothing fresh there. 550 00:31:42,868 --> 00:31:45,602 There's a clear view of their front door. 551 00:31:45,604 --> 00:31:49,205 It certainly doesn't show two to ten centimetres of snow. 552 00:31:49,274 --> 00:31:51,475 So what's the truth there? 553 00:31:56,148 --> 00:31:57,814 (lawyer): Sir, is this the residence, 554 00:31:57,883 --> 00:31:59,616 Number 118 that you were describing? 555 00:31:59,685 --> 00:32:04,421 - Uh, well I guess so. 150-118 yep! 556 00:32:04,423 --> 00:32:07,090 - Okay, that's the residence you were describing? 557 00:32:07,159 --> 00:32:07,758 - Yep. 558 00:32:07,892 --> 00:32:09,826 - Okay and sir, agree with me 559 00:32:09,895 --> 00:32:12,829 That there's little to no snow in that photograph. 560 00:32:12,898 --> 00:32:15,232 - In this photograph? There's little to no snow. 561 00:32:15,234 --> 00:32:17,567 - Okay, and I would suggest to you sir 562 00:32:17,569 --> 00:32:20,704 That that is in fact the way the snow was when you arrived. 563 00:32:20,706 --> 00:32:22,706 - Absolutely incorrect. 564 00:32:22,708 --> 00:32:23,907 - So you're suggesting 565 00:32:23,976 --> 00:32:26,242 There was much more snow when you arrived? 566 00:32:26,244 --> 00:32:28,512 - Absolutely correct. - And so it's your suggestion 567 00:32:28,514 --> 00:32:33,449 That it had melted by the time these photographs were taken? 568 00:32:33,519 --> 00:32:36,119 - I guess so. Or blown away. 569 00:32:36,121 --> 00:32:39,222 The snow was completely covering that area. 570 00:32:42,460 --> 00:32:45,929 (james): I'm now going to show something that I don't think 571 00:32:45,931 --> 00:32:50,867 Was picked up on by trial counsel at all. 572 00:32:50,869 --> 00:32:54,471 You'll recall that the ctv photograph 573 00:32:54,539 --> 00:32:56,606 Showed the stretcher, 574 00:32:56,608 --> 00:33:00,177 The orange blanket of the stretcher. 575 00:33:00,179 --> 00:33:02,746 Stills taken from the video 576 00:33:02,748 --> 00:33:05,681 Of cynara on the stretcher 577 00:33:05,751 --> 00:33:08,218 As she's coming out of the door. 578 00:33:08,286 --> 00:33:11,221 If you look down by the feet, 579 00:33:11,223 --> 00:33:15,158 The left foot of the extreme man, 580 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:20,030 You will see that there is no snow on the ground. 581 00:33:20,032 --> 00:33:24,167 If you go to the next frame, you'll see the same thing. 582 00:33:24,169 --> 00:33:29,639 And the next frame, you'll see the same thing. 583 00:33:34,847 --> 00:33:37,780 - Do you remember what it was like outside that day? 584 00:33:37,782 --> 00:33:41,251 Was it snowing or was it not snowing? 585 00:33:41,319 --> 00:33:43,653 (indistinct chattering) 586 00:33:43,655 --> 00:33:46,189 Not snowing, okay. 587 00:33:46,258 --> 00:33:47,323 - I think it's also relevant 588 00:33:47,325 --> 00:33:53,663 That none of the medics backed the evidence of bujokas. 589 00:33:56,034 --> 00:33:59,302 (lawyer): Sir I'm going to suggest to you that there was... 590 00:34:01,072 --> 00:34:04,007 Little to no snow in the front of the residence. 591 00:34:04,009 --> 00:34:06,008 (bujokas): You're going to suggest that to me? 592 00:34:06,010 --> 00:34:07,344 - Yes. - I disagree. 593 00:34:07,412 --> 00:34:09,279 I was there and there was a lot of snow. 594 00:34:09,347 --> 00:34:12,482 - Okay. So it's your position that there was a lot of snow 595 00:34:12,484 --> 00:34:15,886 When you arrived and there were no footprints whatsoever. 596 00:34:15,888 --> 00:34:17,487 - No, it's not what I said. 597 00:34:17,556 --> 00:34:20,757 I said there's one set of footprints in the snow 598 00:34:20,826 --> 00:34:23,026 That preceded past the residence. 599 00:34:23,095 --> 00:34:25,028 There was no other footprints leading in 600 00:34:25,030 --> 00:34:27,164 Or out of that residence. - Okay, uh, 601 00:34:27,232 --> 00:34:30,032 And your evidence is that there is quite a bit of snow? 602 00:34:30,102 --> 00:34:31,368 Not just a light dusting? 603 00:34:31,370 --> 00:34:34,103 - Well there was enough to hold a footprint. 604 00:34:34,173 --> 00:34:37,040 Footprints gotta need at least a quarter inch to half inch. 605 00:34:37,108 --> 00:34:39,576 - So it was your evidence that there must have been 606 00:34:39,644 --> 00:34:41,111 At least a quarter inch of snow 607 00:34:41,113 --> 00:34:42,846 On that carpeted threshold step. 608 00:34:42,914 --> 00:34:44,780 - At least. - Okay. 609 00:34:44,917 --> 00:34:48,451 (james): Looking at the ground, you can quite clearly see 610 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:52,522 That pathway does not have any snow on it. 611 00:34:52,591 --> 00:34:56,526 There was no comment made on this at all at trial. 612 00:35:00,799 --> 00:35:06,602 - What was it like mothering a child who has special needs? 613 00:35:06,672 --> 00:35:10,540 Help me understand that, because I don't have kids. 614 00:35:10,609 --> 00:35:12,476 (cindy): Here we were with a baby with cerebral palsy, 615 00:35:12,544 --> 00:35:15,145 We didn't know what to expect. This was our first experience, 616 00:35:15,213 --> 00:35:18,481 We didn't know what to do. What we should do. 617 00:35:18,550 --> 00:35:21,017 A few people approached us and said, you know, 618 00:35:21,085 --> 00:35:24,353 There's home that you can... I was like, no. 619 00:35:24,355 --> 00:35:26,489 No matter how much you try and convince me, 620 00:35:26,558 --> 00:35:28,825 She's not going in a home. She has a home. 621 00:35:28,894 --> 00:35:31,194 And that's with me and her family. 622 00:35:31,262 --> 00:35:33,429 We went on vacation, she went. 623 00:35:33,498 --> 00:35:37,134 Trips, she went with us. Everywhere we went, she went. 624 00:35:37,202 --> 00:35:39,102 We don't treat that child differently. 625 00:35:39,104 --> 00:35:42,038 Or make that child feel, oh, you have a disability, 626 00:35:42,106 --> 00:35:45,509 You should be treated this way. No, cynara was treated 627 00:35:45,577 --> 00:35:50,780 The same way that everybody else was treated. 628 00:35:50,848 --> 00:35:52,649 (jade): I was so close with my sister, 629 00:35:52,651 --> 00:35:54,985 Like, really close with her. 630 00:35:55,053 --> 00:35:58,254 I used to sit on the couch for hours just holding her 631 00:35:58,256 --> 00:36:01,057 And make a bottle and feed her 632 00:36:01,059 --> 00:36:03,593 And help my mom shower her in the morning. 633 00:36:03,595 --> 00:36:07,164 It became an everyday thing that I did. 634 00:36:09,334 --> 00:36:13,036 It was normal for me. 635 00:36:13,038 --> 00:36:15,972 - We all kind of did it together. 636 00:36:16,041 --> 00:36:18,074 Yeah, she had a disability, 637 00:36:18,142 --> 00:36:19,976 But... 638 00:36:19,978 --> 00:36:23,346 Her disability never stopped us. 639 00:36:23,415 --> 00:36:26,882 - I still have her clothes hanging up in my room. 640 00:36:26,952 --> 00:36:28,385 And people say you know, 641 00:36:28,387 --> 00:36:32,322 You have to move on from it. I can't. 642 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:39,229 (cindy): They were very good with her at a very young age. 643 00:36:39,231 --> 00:36:41,631 They would push her in a stroller, 644 00:36:41,700 --> 00:36:44,500 They would put her in a walker and pull her around 645 00:36:44,569 --> 00:36:46,403 And they would lie with her on the bed, 646 00:36:46,471 --> 00:36:49,238 They would play with her, they would read for her. 647 00:36:49,308 --> 00:36:52,108 We know when she's not well, we know when she's happy, 648 00:36:52,177 --> 00:36:55,045 We know when she's sad or when she's in pain, 649 00:36:55,113 --> 00:36:56,379 Or when she's hungry. 650 00:36:56,448 --> 00:36:59,515 They know by her cries too, by her face expression, 651 00:36:59,584 --> 00:37:02,452 By the way she act. She needs this. 652 00:37:02,454 --> 00:37:06,522 (jim): What would you need to do when she has a seizure? 653 00:37:06,591 --> 00:37:08,524 (cindy): I would have to hold her. 654 00:37:08,526 --> 00:37:10,293 (jim): And you're holding her because...? 655 00:37:10,361 --> 00:37:11,494 (cindy): Hold her down because her whole body 656 00:37:11,563 --> 00:37:14,196 Is shaking and we don't want her damaging herself 657 00:37:14,198 --> 00:37:17,867 And breaking any bones. Yeah. 658 00:37:17,935 --> 00:37:19,669 It's scary, it's pretty scary. 659 00:37:19,738 --> 00:37:22,072 - And it happened quite often? - Not too often, 660 00:37:22,074 --> 00:37:25,942 But she gets it when she doesn't sleep properly 661 00:37:26,011 --> 00:37:29,779 Or if somebody scares her. 662 00:37:30,048 --> 00:37:31,981 (james): She had partial movement of her arms, 663 00:37:32,050 --> 00:37:34,283 But couldn't hold her head up without assistance. 664 00:37:34,353 --> 00:37:37,153 She was non-verbal and communicated 665 00:37:37,222 --> 00:37:42,225 With the world through laughter, crying or kicking. 666 00:37:42,227 --> 00:37:44,027 (alan): Say hi. 667 00:37:44,029 --> 00:37:45,495 (james): She could only be fed liquid food 668 00:37:45,563 --> 00:37:48,298 Because she had difficulty swallowing 669 00:37:48,366 --> 00:37:50,566 And was prone to seizures. 670 00:37:50,568 --> 00:37:53,970 She did on occasion develop pneumonia. 671 00:37:53,972 --> 00:37:56,506 At the time of her death, 16 years old, 672 00:37:56,508 --> 00:38:01,711 She was four foot six tall and weighed 76 pounds. 673 00:38:01,713 --> 00:38:05,247 Despite this, she was, 674 00:38:05,317 --> 00:38:08,251 An autopsy found, to be well nourished 675 00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:10,520 And well cared for. 676 00:38:10,588 --> 00:38:13,456 And all the evidence suggested she was. 677 00:38:16,728 --> 00:38:20,096 - I feel like... 678 00:38:20,164 --> 00:38:21,998 They just... 679 00:38:22,066 --> 00:38:27,070 Wanted to create a story. 680 00:38:27,072 --> 00:38:31,741 They wanted to make it look like it was a burden. 681 00:38:39,817 --> 00:38:43,420 (lawyer): Cynara couldn't do anything for herself. 682 00:38:43,422 --> 00:38:44,754 (cindy): No she could not. 683 00:38:44,823 --> 00:38:46,756 - You had to do everything for her. 684 00:38:46,825 --> 00:38:49,159 - That's correct. - You had to bathe her? 685 00:38:49,161 --> 00:38:51,026 - Yes. - You had to feed her? 686 00:38:51,096 --> 00:38:52,962 - Yes. - You had to change her? 687 00:38:52,964 --> 00:38:54,764 - Yes. - Everything like a baby? 688 00:38:54,766 --> 00:38:57,901 - That's right. - 24/7 kind of care? 689 00:38:57,903 --> 00:38:59,168 - That is correct. 690 00:38:59,237 --> 00:39:02,505 But I also said that it was not a burden 691 00:39:02,574 --> 00:39:04,441 Or problem for us to do. 692 00:39:04,443 --> 00:39:07,844 It's just, children like cynara need special care. 693 00:39:07,846 --> 00:39:09,512 That's all. 694 00:39:09,981 --> 00:39:12,315 (james): The crown, instead of acknowledging 695 00:39:12,384 --> 00:39:14,484 That there was no motive 696 00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:17,587 For the appellant to kill her daughter, 697 00:39:17,655 --> 00:39:20,056 Came up with five different motives. 698 00:39:20,124 --> 00:39:23,259 And this is where the pastor's evidence comes in. 699 00:39:23,795 --> 00:39:26,662 (lawyer): You know, mr. Hicks asked you about this um... 700 00:39:26,731 --> 00:39:28,731 What's the person? What did you call him? 701 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,501 The preacher who prophecises? - The preacher. 702 00:39:31,569 --> 00:39:33,737 Yeah. - Okay, um... 703 00:39:33,805 --> 00:39:36,740 And he accurately predicted prophecies 704 00:39:36,808 --> 00:39:39,008 For different parishioners. Including the fact 705 00:39:39,010 --> 00:39:42,145 That he told cindy that she should let her child go. 706 00:39:42,213 --> 00:39:43,579 (james): The trial judge interrupted, 707 00:39:43,581 --> 00:39:45,415 He was going to stop this evidence going in. 708 00:39:45,483 --> 00:39:49,752 - I gotta say I think you're really, really stretching it. 709 00:39:49,821 --> 00:39:52,088 I think it smacks of desperation. 710 00:39:52,090 --> 00:39:55,558 I really think it's an inappropriate use of the evidence. 711 00:39:55,626 --> 00:39:59,028 And ultimately, the defence and crown 712 00:39:59,030 --> 00:40:00,897 Convinced him that it should go in. 713 00:40:01,165 --> 00:40:02,966 (lawyer): You're telling cindy ali that it's okay 714 00:40:03,034 --> 00:40:04,834 To let her daughter die. 715 00:40:04,836 --> 00:40:07,036 Do you agree or disagree with me? 716 00:40:08,105 --> 00:40:11,374 - I disagree with the way it's portrayed right now, 717 00:40:11,443 --> 00:40:12,776 As you say it. 718 00:40:12,778 --> 00:40:15,445 Because I'm a spiritual leader. 719 00:40:15,513 --> 00:40:17,914 And my job is to make sure 720 00:40:17,982 --> 00:40:21,317 That people are morally and spiritually strong. 721 00:40:24,656 --> 00:40:26,055 (sheela): We're all born on a certain day, 722 00:40:26,057 --> 00:40:27,924 We all go home on a certain day. 723 00:40:27,992 --> 00:40:30,927 Our faith believes that god has already given us 724 00:40:30,995 --> 00:40:32,929 The number of our days. 725 00:40:32,997 --> 00:40:35,064 Cindy received this prophetic word saying, 726 00:40:35,066 --> 00:40:38,935 You'll have to release this baby to the lord. 727 00:40:38,937 --> 00:40:42,071 Our understanding of it is don't try to... 728 00:40:42,073 --> 00:40:44,073 You know, just trust in god's will. 729 00:40:44,141 --> 00:40:47,177 There's a time for everybody. 730 00:40:47,245 --> 00:40:49,812 All mothers want to control their babies 731 00:40:49,881 --> 00:40:51,814 And keep them forever. 732 00:40:51,883 --> 00:40:53,349 She just took that really bad. 733 00:40:53,417 --> 00:40:56,352 She thought that okay, I'm going to lose cynara now, 734 00:40:56,354 --> 00:40:58,354 You know? 735 00:40:58,423 --> 00:41:00,823 So I spoke to her about it and I said, you know, 736 00:41:00,892 --> 00:41:02,892 Don't get upset about this. We don't know if it's today 737 00:41:02,894 --> 00:41:04,961 Or tomorrow or next week or next year. 738 00:41:05,029 --> 00:41:06,962 But you will have to release her. 739 00:41:07,032 --> 00:41:08,965 And she said, "I understand that, 740 00:41:08,967 --> 00:41:12,402 But it's very hard for me to release cynara." 741 00:41:13,905 --> 00:41:16,306 (james): This is what durasami said in chief. 742 00:41:16,308 --> 00:41:18,241 "when I did have my conversation with her 743 00:41:18,309 --> 00:41:21,644 Maybe three or four weeks later, she said I have prayed, 744 00:41:21,712 --> 00:41:24,447 I've done-- released her to god. 745 00:41:24,516 --> 00:41:26,048 I know she is god's child 746 00:41:26,050 --> 00:41:29,052 And let god's will happen in her life. 747 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:31,120 I'm at peace with it." 748 00:41:31,188 --> 00:41:35,325 That's not saying she's letting her go, 749 00:41:35,393 --> 00:41:37,927 Or as the crown puts it, I've come to the place 750 00:41:37,929 --> 00:41:41,397 Where I've given cynara up in my heart. 751 00:41:41,466 --> 00:41:43,933 That's not what she said at all. 752 00:41:43,935 --> 00:41:47,202 But that's how the crown put it in her closing. 753 00:41:47,204 --> 00:41:49,205 "and the reason, ms. Ali, that I'm suggesting 754 00:41:49,207 --> 00:41:51,608 You were capable of killing your daughter..." 755 00:41:52,143 --> 00:41:55,144 (lawyer): "...Is because as your pastor sheela told this jury, 756 00:41:55,146 --> 00:42:00,215 You let your daughter cynara go from your heart years before. 757 00:42:00,285 --> 00:42:01,751 Right?" 758 00:42:03,287 --> 00:42:05,821 That is not what the pastor said at all. 759 00:42:05,890 --> 00:42:06,856 Answer, I didn't... 760 00:42:06,992 --> 00:42:09,292 (cindy): I didn't let cynara go from my heart. 761 00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:11,961 She will always be there. She's still there. 762 00:42:12,030 --> 00:42:15,965 - "and nothing or no one can take that from us." 763 00:42:17,669 --> 00:42:20,102 The crown's closing submissions... 764 00:42:20,238 --> 00:42:22,105 (lawyer): So we may never understand 765 00:42:22,107 --> 00:42:23,505 Why cindy ali killed her daughter, 766 00:42:23,575 --> 00:42:26,576 But we do know that she stopped loving her. 767 00:42:27,244 --> 00:42:29,979 Well, that's just a statement by the crown. 768 00:42:30,048 --> 00:42:32,448 There is no evidence of that. 769 00:42:32,984 --> 00:42:35,985 (lawyer): Allan, uh, your husband, ali, told us that 770 00:42:36,054 --> 00:42:37,586 The doctors in trinidad 771 00:42:37,656 --> 00:42:40,790 Told you that cynara wouldn't live beyond three years old. 772 00:42:41,392 --> 00:42:43,125 Do you remember hearing him say that? 773 00:42:43,194 --> 00:42:44,594 - That is correct, yes. 774 00:42:44,596 --> 00:42:46,329 - And what was your understanding, ms. Ali? 775 00:42:46,397 --> 00:42:50,600 - The same thing. That she would not live more than three years. 776 00:42:50,802 --> 00:42:52,601 (james): This is the third motive, 777 00:42:52,671 --> 00:42:54,203 Cynara had lived too long. 778 00:42:54,271 --> 00:42:56,205 She was supposed to have died at three, 779 00:42:56,207 --> 00:42:58,942 She was still alive 13 years later. 780 00:42:59,010 --> 00:43:02,678 So that was the motive to kill her, 781 00:43:02,747 --> 00:43:05,014 By her mother. 782 00:43:05,082 --> 00:43:07,016 Her husband, her oldest daughter 783 00:43:07,018 --> 00:43:10,152 And the two pastors who testified. 784 00:43:10,221 --> 00:43:14,890 People who knew how the appellant 785 00:43:14,892 --> 00:43:16,625 Looked after cynara 786 00:43:16,627 --> 00:43:20,963 All gave testimonials to her love and care for cynara. 787 00:43:21,032 --> 00:43:23,298 (jim): "dear sir or madam, for the last 16 years 788 00:43:23,368 --> 00:43:26,168 As parents of cynara, we've done everything for her 789 00:43:26,170 --> 00:43:28,437 With an enormous amount of love, care and concern 790 00:43:28,506 --> 00:43:31,174 For her wellbeing. We provide an atmosphere 791 00:43:31,176 --> 00:43:33,442 Of compassion and understanding and a sense of normalcy 792 00:43:33,511 --> 00:43:36,379 For our children. My wife and I have developed 793 00:43:36,447 --> 00:43:38,514 A routine that takes care of cynara 794 00:43:38,516 --> 00:43:41,384 Without the help of any outside agency or service. 795 00:43:41,386 --> 00:43:44,120 Being in canada has provided us huge opportunities 796 00:43:44,122 --> 00:43:45,121 To really make a difference 797 00:43:45,256 --> 00:43:47,189 And since coming here 10 years ago, my wife and I 798 00:43:47,191 --> 00:43:49,459 Maintained our lives and that of our children 799 00:43:49,527 --> 00:43:52,261 To be self-sufficient and not depend on the services 800 00:43:52,330 --> 00:43:56,799 Or agencies to be a burden on the system. 801 00:43:56,868 --> 00:43:58,935 My sisters and I love cynara very much 802 00:43:59,003 --> 00:44:00,136 And we will do anything for her. 803 00:44:00,138 --> 00:44:02,438 We take her on outings, we buy her trendy clothes, 804 00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:05,307 We read to her and play with her." 805 00:44:05,376 --> 00:44:07,610 Karissa, jade. "I'm always giving her 806 00:44:07,612 --> 00:44:11,748 A manicure and pedicure and put on puppet shows for her." 807 00:44:14,018 --> 00:44:15,951 Clarissa, krissy. 808 00:44:16,020 --> 00:44:17,820 "I read to her at bedtime. 809 00:44:17,889 --> 00:44:20,622 When I'm on the computer, she sits with me. 810 00:44:20,692 --> 00:44:22,291 I love her more than anything 811 00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:24,160 And will always be there for her. 812 00:44:24,228 --> 00:44:25,628 Her family does everything for cynara, 813 00:44:25,630 --> 00:44:27,764 My aunt, grandparents, sisters, parents and I 814 00:44:27,832 --> 00:44:29,098 Will do anything. 815 00:44:29,167 --> 00:44:31,166 And she hardly ever gets sick and is happy 816 00:44:31,236 --> 00:44:32,835 Being with all of us." 817 00:44:34,439 --> 00:44:38,674 - I really want to thank you guys for sticking with us. 818 00:44:38,743 --> 00:44:40,910 Can't do it without you guys. 819 00:44:47,585 --> 00:44:49,052 (sniffling) 820 00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:52,588 Some days, it's really, really difficult. 821 00:44:52,590 --> 00:44:54,857 When I got back and I look at the pictures, 822 00:44:54,859 --> 00:44:57,092 I said, "thank god." 823 00:44:57,162 --> 00:44:59,962 There's an army of people 824 00:44:59,964 --> 00:45:01,530 That's standing with us. 825 00:45:01,599 --> 00:45:05,368 From all of us, thank you very much. 826 00:45:07,338 --> 00:45:08,871 Walk in my shoes for one day. 827 00:45:08,940 --> 00:45:12,941 Walk in the shoes of a parent who has a handicapped child. 828 00:45:12,943 --> 00:45:14,510 And see. 829 00:45:15,747 --> 00:45:17,847 And see. 830 00:45:22,286 --> 00:45:25,722 Nobody understands the love we had for that child. 831 00:45:28,426 --> 00:45:30,560 (whispering): Hi. Hi. 832 00:45:30,628 --> 00:45:33,429 (priscilla): The pregnancy, everything went well. 833 00:45:33,498 --> 00:45:37,100 In jaden's case, it was during the delivery time. 834 00:45:37,168 --> 00:45:39,235 Things got a little bit complicated 835 00:45:39,303 --> 00:45:41,203 And oxygen supply got cut. 836 00:45:41,272 --> 00:45:44,640 That's when things turned around. 837 00:45:49,347 --> 00:45:52,482 (whispering): Want some water? Yeah? 838 00:46:04,395 --> 00:46:06,062 (gagging) 839 00:46:06,130 --> 00:46:07,997 Drink, drink, drink. 840 00:46:07,999 --> 00:46:08,998 (retching) 841 00:46:09,066 --> 00:46:10,799 (speaks foreign language) I know... 842 00:46:10,869 --> 00:46:12,602 (retching) 843 00:46:12,670 --> 00:46:16,538 Every day is so unpredictable. 844 00:46:16,608 --> 00:46:18,874 Some days are so crazy. 845 00:46:18,943 --> 00:46:20,409 - Are you okay? 846 00:46:20,477 --> 00:46:22,345 (gasping) 847 00:46:22,347 --> 00:46:24,280 (speaks foreign language) 848 00:46:24,348 --> 00:46:27,016 Why don't you put your head straight, okay? 849 00:46:27,084 --> 00:46:28,184 - Try again maybe. (chuckles) 850 00:46:28,252 --> 00:46:30,887 - I'm talking with you. 851 00:46:30,955 --> 00:46:32,855 Yeah? 852 00:46:32,857 --> 00:46:36,358 - Mmm. - Mmm? Who's the smartest boy in the world? 853 00:46:36,427 --> 00:46:39,094 (laughing) - you are? 854 00:46:39,096 --> 00:46:42,198 - Who's the most handsome boy? 855 00:46:44,302 --> 00:46:46,034 (laughing) 856 00:46:46,104 --> 00:46:48,637 Yeah, that's jaden. 857 00:46:48,706 --> 00:46:49,872 Yesterday, he was so excited 858 00:46:49,941 --> 00:46:54,844 Because I told him we're going out, he will be out all day. 859 00:46:54,912 --> 00:46:56,712 What, jaden? 860 00:46:56,780 --> 00:46:59,715 Jaden likes to go out, right? 861 00:46:59,783 --> 00:47:02,585 We're gonna go see cindy today, eh? 862 00:47:02,653 --> 00:47:05,388 She loves to see jaden. 863 00:47:05,456 --> 00:47:09,925 Even at church when cindy's there, he wouldn't be with me. 864 00:47:09,927 --> 00:47:12,328 She will come and the moment we enter the church, 865 00:47:12,330 --> 00:47:14,230 She will come and carry him. 866 00:47:14,232 --> 00:47:16,331 She will ask me, "you, go away. 867 00:47:16,401 --> 00:47:18,267 I'm gonna spend time with him. 868 00:47:18,336 --> 00:47:20,403 Nobody should disturb." 869 00:47:20,405 --> 00:47:23,138 He'll see. Like, he'll play with her hair. 870 00:47:23,207 --> 00:47:28,811 Especially, he'll try to pull her hair and, yeah... 871 00:47:33,284 --> 00:47:35,885 (cindy): At the beginning, it was really a little bit tough for me. 872 00:47:35,953 --> 00:47:40,222 It's like cynara had just passed away, I was like... 873 00:47:40,291 --> 00:47:41,624 I didn't know how to feel 874 00:47:41,626 --> 00:47:45,161 Or if I should let myself in to know this baby. 875 00:47:45,229 --> 00:47:47,229 The first time he came, 876 00:47:47,231 --> 00:47:49,765 It was emotional for the whole family, 877 00:47:49,767 --> 00:47:54,703 But after that, it was good, just having him. 878 00:47:54,772 --> 00:47:58,741 He probably came into our lives at the right time. 879 00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:31,274 - Hi. 880 00:48:31,276 --> 00:48:32,141 (sniffles) 881 00:48:32,143 --> 00:48:36,212 - Hey. Hi, jaden. Hi. (sniffles) 882 00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:39,115 Yes, yes. 883 00:48:40,485 --> 00:48:41,884 (laughing) 884 00:48:41,953 --> 00:48:46,088 You're giving me a smile? Yeah. - Yeah. 885 00:48:47,025 --> 00:48:49,492 You are happy? 886 00:48:49,494 --> 00:48:52,160 You're so happy, look at you. 887 00:48:52,230 --> 00:48:56,632 - Yes, yes. What are you doing? You're getting big. 888 00:48:56,700 --> 00:49:00,469 What's so funny. You want to pull my hair, don't you? 889 00:49:00,538 --> 00:49:02,805 (laughing) 890 00:49:02,807 --> 00:49:05,708 - One day. He says, "one day, I'll definitely pull..." 891 00:49:05,776 --> 00:49:10,980 - You're good? All right. Tell me now, everything. 892 00:49:11,048 --> 00:49:12,647 Mm-hmm. 893 00:49:12,717 --> 00:49:14,049 - He was partying a lot. 894 00:49:14,118 --> 00:49:15,985 - I heard, I heard. You had a good time? 895 00:49:16,053 --> 00:49:18,454 - Jaden had doubles. - He had doubles? 896 00:49:18,522 --> 00:49:21,457 - Yes, he did, he did. - Oh, they fed him? 897 00:49:21,459 --> 00:49:23,792 - Oh, they fed you, eh? - Yeah! 898 00:49:23,861 --> 00:49:26,128 - They didn't give you no pop or anything? 899 00:49:26,197 --> 00:49:27,963 - No, no pop. - No pop. 900 00:49:27,965 --> 00:49:30,599 - Did you get your chocolate today? No chocolate? 901 00:49:30,667 --> 00:49:32,134 - No. - No chocolate. 902 00:49:32,203 --> 00:49:36,872 - He got so big to the last time I saw him. So tall. 903 00:49:36,940 --> 00:49:40,676 We're talking about you, yeah. 904 00:49:40,678 --> 00:49:42,812 (jaden laughing) 905 00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:45,581 - This boy knows how to get attention. 906 00:49:45,583 --> 00:49:48,617 - Yes. La-la-la-la! 907 00:49:48,619 --> 00:49:51,020 (jaden laughing) 908 00:49:51,088 --> 00:49:53,688 - Uh-huh. 909 00:49:53,758 --> 00:49:56,292 (jaden vocalizing) 910 00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:58,560 What song is this? 911 00:49:58,629 --> 00:50:00,629 - Oh, cynara used to do the same thing. 912 00:50:00,631 --> 00:50:03,365 Like, they try to tell you... Yeah! 913 00:50:03,434 --> 00:50:05,434 (jaden vocalizing) 914 00:50:05,503 --> 00:50:07,836 What... - He's talking sometimes. 915 00:50:07,838 --> 00:50:10,639 - It's in the mic. (laughing) 916 00:50:10,708 --> 00:50:13,576 - Too excited? Yes? What? 917 00:50:13,578 --> 00:50:16,579 Yeah. I told him yesterday. 918 00:50:16,581 --> 00:50:18,314 They told you, you were coming today? 919 00:50:18,382 --> 00:50:23,052 (priscilla): You're gonna be out all day, you're gonna meet cindy. 920 00:50:23,054 --> 00:50:25,154 (cindy): Yeah. 921 00:50:26,457 --> 00:50:28,457 Okay. 922 00:50:28,525 --> 00:50:31,460 You will be out soon too. Eh? - Mm-hmm. 923 00:50:31,462 --> 00:50:33,462 - Okay. Okay. 924 00:50:33,464 --> 00:50:35,931 (sniffles) 925 00:50:46,410 --> 00:50:49,945 - See you guys, bye. Bye, jaden. 926 00:50:54,485 --> 00:51:00,256 (soft music) 927 00:51:06,631 --> 00:51:08,831 (reporter): Nearly 160 offenders 928 00:51:08,833 --> 00:51:10,699 Went into quarantine Tuesday night 929 00:51:10,701 --> 00:51:12,767 At the saskatoon correctional centre 930 00:51:12,837 --> 00:51:14,169 After one inmate said 931 00:51:14,171 --> 00:51:15,971 He came into contact with someone 932 00:51:15,973 --> 00:51:17,773 Who has the novel coronavirus, 933 00:51:17,842 --> 00:51:21,376 And until this potential contact is completely ruled out, 934 00:51:21,445 --> 00:51:25,247 Infection control measures are in effect at provincial jails. 935 00:51:25,315 --> 00:51:27,449 (reporter 2): But in several institutions, 936 00:51:27,451 --> 00:51:29,051 Infection is taking hold. 937 00:51:29,053 --> 00:51:32,321 Including port cartier, quebec, where some inmates and staff 938 00:51:32,389 --> 00:51:33,255 Have tested positive, 939 00:51:33,591 --> 00:51:36,725 And the grand valley institution for women in ontario, 940 00:51:36,794 --> 00:51:38,260 Which is reporting an infected inmate. 941 00:51:38,328 --> 00:51:40,729 (emma halpern): We think there's really only one way 942 00:51:40,798 --> 00:51:42,865 To prevent the spread of the virus, and that is to release 943 00:51:42,933 --> 00:51:47,203 As many prisoners as possible into safe and supported housing 944 00:51:47,205 --> 00:51:48,136 In the community. 945 00:51:48,206 --> 00:51:50,072 (reporter 3): Still, it's a balancing act 946 00:51:50,074 --> 00:51:53,142 Between the accused's charter right to reasonable bail 947 00:51:53,144 --> 00:51:56,078 And the protection and safety of the general public. 948 00:51:58,149 --> 00:51:59,214 - Some people might look at it and say, 949 00:51:59,283 --> 00:52:02,618 "oh, someone who's been convicted of first-degree murder 950 00:52:02,620 --> 00:52:04,686 Is walking free," 951 00:52:04,688 --> 00:52:06,889 But our court system is supposed to work this way. 952 00:52:06,891 --> 00:52:09,758 She's a model prisoner, 953 00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:13,162 She doesn't have a background that rings alarm bells, 954 00:52:13,230 --> 00:52:15,364 And she has underlying health issues 955 00:52:15,432 --> 00:52:19,001 That make being inside of prison right now really dangerous. 956 00:52:54,738 --> 00:52:57,473 (jim): Now, speaking with alan, he's like, nervous 957 00:52:57,541 --> 00:52:59,608 About what the public will think about 958 00:52:59,677 --> 00:53:02,077 Someone getting out like this. 959 00:53:02,146 --> 00:53:04,145 - It's hard to believe anyone would take 960 00:53:04,215 --> 00:53:06,215 An aggressive position on this. 961 00:53:06,217 --> 00:53:11,020 I mean, you know, she brought up her kid for 16 years. 962 00:53:11,022 --> 00:53:13,022 I mean, you read the fact, and why on earth 963 00:53:13,090 --> 00:53:16,091 Would anyone think she'd do something like this, right? 964 00:53:16,159 --> 00:53:17,592 - Mm-hmm. 965 00:53:17,662 --> 00:53:19,094 It's sounding like you're putting this 966 00:53:19,162 --> 00:53:21,630 Into the wrongful conviction category. 967 00:53:21,699 --> 00:53:24,566 - Close. - How close? 968 00:53:24,635 --> 00:53:26,101 - Not quite there. 969 00:53:26,170 --> 00:53:28,103 I think it's hard for me to actually get there, 970 00:53:28,105 --> 00:53:32,041 But um, pretty close, yes. 971 00:53:32,043 --> 00:53:34,910 - 'cause it started out as a miscarriage of justice... 972 00:53:34,912 --> 00:53:37,379 Pretty much, right? 973 00:53:37,447 --> 00:53:38,847 - Yes. - In your mind. 974 00:53:38,915 --> 00:53:43,519 - Yes. Now it's become, she's innocent. 975 00:53:46,457 --> 00:53:47,856 I do progress, you know. 976 00:53:47,858 --> 00:53:49,991 (laughing) 977 00:53:50,061 --> 00:53:52,861 I can't put my feet in cement and refuse to move. 978 00:53:52,930 --> 00:53:54,929 (jim laughs) 979 00:53:54,999 --> 00:53:57,198 - Hmm... (panting) 980 00:53:57,268 --> 00:54:00,469 - Go see her, go. Go see her, go see her. 981 00:54:00,537 --> 00:54:02,704 (whining) 982 00:54:02,773 --> 00:54:05,608 Go see, go see! 983 00:54:14,818 --> 00:54:17,219 (crying) 984 00:54:18,489 --> 00:54:21,956 (soft music) 985 00:54:22,026 --> 00:54:26,962 (indistinct speaking) 986 00:54:39,777 --> 00:54:42,444 - It's done? - It's done. 987 00:54:43,513 --> 00:54:45,647 (laughing) 988 00:54:45,716 --> 00:54:48,250 - That's all done. 989 00:54:51,988 --> 00:54:53,989 - Well, cheers. - Cheers. 990 00:54:53,991 --> 00:54:55,190 - Welcome home. 991 00:54:55,259 --> 00:54:57,526 - Now we call priscilla? - No, she's at work. 992 00:54:57,528 --> 00:54:58,460 - She's finishing at ten. 993 00:54:58,662 --> 00:55:01,697 - I'll call her at ten. I told her I'll call her at ten. 994 00:55:06,737 --> 00:55:11,273 (indistinct chatter) 995 00:55:15,813 --> 00:55:18,680 (james): I start with a proposition, if I may, 996 00:55:18,749 --> 00:55:22,685 That this was a most unlikely 997 00:55:22,753 --> 00:55:24,953 Case of murder, 998 00:55:24,955 --> 00:55:27,489 And while nothing in this world is impossible, 999 00:55:27,491 --> 00:55:32,094 It, on the record, seems highly unlikely. 1000 00:55:32,096 --> 00:55:34,897 The appellant was no robert latimer, 1001 00:55:34,899 --> 00:55:36,365 If I can put it that way. 1002 00:55:36,433 --> 00:55:40,235 Indeed, just the night before cynara died, 1003 00:55:40,303 --> 00:55:42,304 Her mother had lied beside her in bed 1004 00:55:42,373 --> 00:55:45,741 While she recovered from a seizure. 1005 00:55:54,451 --> 00:55:58,087 (alan): It had to be around 8-8:30 timeframe. 1006 00:56:00,323 --> 00:56:03,125 I remember going through the front door. 1007 00:56:03,127 --> 00:56:06,261 There was snow or flurries falling that morning, 1008 00:56:06,329 --> 00:56:09,264 But nothing was accumulating on the ground. 1009 00:56:10,334 --> 00:56:13,135 (cindy): The twins left after, 1010 00:56:13,137 --> 00:56:15,137 And then amanda left. 1011 00:56:15,139 --> 00:56:18,540 So amanda was the last one to leave. 1012 00:56:18,609 --> 00:56:21,676 (clock ticking) 1013 00:56:22,146 --> 00:56:24,746 Cynara was not feeling too well. 1014 00:56:24,748 --> 00:56:26,081 She was a bit fussy. 1015 00:56:26,217 --> 00:56:29,418 She didn't want to be put down, she wanted to be held all the time. 1016 00:56:30,687 --> 00:56:32,788 (doorbell rings) 1017 00:56:34,090 --> 00:56:35,891 Amanda had just left, 1018 00:56:35,893 --> 00:56:39,093 So I thought maybe she forgot something, 1019 00:56:39,095 --> 00:56:42,531 So I put cynara down and I went. 1020 00:56:44,167 --> 00:56:46,201 And I opened the door. 1021 00:56:47,104 --> 00:56:50,606 That's where... Everything went wrong. 1022 00:56:56,514 --> 00:56:58,313 I came running through the kitchen 1023 00:56:58,381 --> 00:57:00,916 And I remember grabbing a couple knives 1024 00:57:00,918 --> 00:57:03,585 That I had on the counter, and I threw it. 1025 00:57:05,789 --> 00:57:08,123 I remember grabbing the phone. 1026 00:57:08,725 --> 00:57:11,126 It was ripped off the wall, 1027 00:57:11,128 --> 00:57:13,729 And by the time I got here, 1028 00:57:13,731 --> 00:57:18,066 The other guy was already standing in the sitting room. 1029 00:57:18,134 --> 00:57:20,502 He had a gun. 1030 00:57:22,606 --> 00:57:25,340 (filmmaker): Can you describe how they were dressed? 1031 00:57:25,342 --> 00:57:29,544 - Um, ski masks, coats, suits, shoes. 1032 00:57:29,613 --> 00:57:31,380 All black. 1033 00:57:32,283 --> 00:57:34,650 (filmmaker): Does cynara see this? 1034 00:57:35,419 --> 00:57:37,486 - She sees everything. 1035 00:57:38,155 --> 00:57:41,423 So he asked me to go upstairs, I mean, not in a nice way. 1036 00:57:41,492 --> 00:57:44,760 So we went upstairs, and he went to all the rooms, 1037 00:57:44,828 --> 00:57:48,864 Opened up the cupboards and drawers. 1038 00:57:48,866 --> 00:57:51,333 They wanted a package. 1039 00:57:51,335 --> 00:57:54,102 "I don't have a package, I don't know what you're talking about." 1040 00:57:54,170 --> 00:57:57,038 And they're like, "yes, this is the house." 1041 00:57:57,107 --> 00:57:58,373 And they're here to pick it up. 1042 00:57:58,375 --> 00:58:01,075 And I was like, "I don't have a package." 1043 00:58:01,145 --> 00:58:02,945 My main concern was cynara. 1044 00:58:02,947 --> 00:58:04,980 I didn't care about anything else, 1045 00:58:05,048 --> 00:58:06,781 I just wanted to get to cynara, 1046 00:58:06,783 --> 00:58:10,652 Because I know if she gets scared or she gets in a fright, 1047 00:58:10,654 --> 00:58:13,422 In a panic, she starts getting seizures. 1048 00:58:15,392 --> 00:58:17,593 He went to the basement. 1049 00:58:19,330 --> 00:58:22,798 Amanda's room, alan's office. 1050 00:58:22,800 --> 00:58:26,267 He realized that there wasn't anything in there. 1051 00:58:26,337 --> 00:58:29,204 "there's no package here." and I was like, "no." 1052 00:58:29,272 --> 00:58:33,542 So then, I got a chance to run back up, and I did. 1053 00:58:34,411 --> 00:58:38,413 Cynara was just still, she wasn't moving. 1054 00:58:38,482 --> 00:58:41,783 She wasn't making any sound or anything. 1055 00:58:43,420 --> 00:58:45,020 (filmmaker): And what was the gentleman-- 1056 00:58:45,022 --> 00:58:47,022 - He was just standing. 1057 00:58:57,368 --> 00:59:00,569 The guy came up and said, "this is the wrong house." 1058 00:59:01,038 --> 00:59:02,971 (filmmaker): And what did they do? 1059 00:59:03,774 --> 00:59:07,309 (cindy): Ran down to the basement, stepped out the basement door 1060 00:59:07,311 --> 00:59:09,845 To the underground garage. 1061 00:59:13,550 --> 00:59:16,918 The last thing I remember is when I called 911 1062 00:59:16,987 --> 00:59:18,086 I said, "hello?" 1063 00:59:18,088 --> 00:59:21,456 (cindy panting, crying) 1064 00:59:21,458 --> 00:59:24,393 (operator 1): Okay, try and tell me what big streets 1065 00:59:24,461 --> 00:59:26,094 Are by burrows hall. 1066 00:59:28,264 --> 00:59:30,799 (operator 1): She said something about her baby. 1067 00:59:31,668 --> 00:59:34,403 (operator 2): Hey. Sounds like we lost her. 1068 00:59:38,809 --> 00:59:43,278 - If I may speak for myself for a moment, 1069 00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:45,480 When I first heard the defence, I must say, 1070 00:59:45,548 --> 00:59:47,782 It raised my eyebrows. 1071 00:59:47,851 --> 00:59:49,284 But... 1072 00:59:49,353 --> 00:59:52,521 Home invasions happen, as we all well know. 1073 00:59:52,589 --> 00:59:57,359 So, whilst at first sight, the eyebrows are raised, 1074 00:59:57,427 --> 01:00:00,495 In my submission, there's really no reason in itself 1075 01:00:00,497 --> 01:00:04,399 Why she couldn't have been the victim of a home invasion. 1076 01:00:04,401 --> 01:00:07,502 And her police statements 1077 01:00:07,570 --> 01:00:10,706 Are remarkably consistent. 1078 01:00:10,774 --> 01:00:14,376 She first spoke to constable kelloway 1079 01:00:14,444 --> 01:00:16,645 In the living room 1080 01:00:16,647 --> 01:00:19,648 And gave him a brief accounting of what had happened. 1081 01:00:19,716 --> 01:00:22,384 She then spoke to constable minhurst, 1082 01:00:22,386 --> 01:00:25,721 Gave him a brief accounting of what had happened. 1083 01:00:26,289 --> 01:00:29,157 She then spoke to the first responder 1084 01:00:29,226 --> 01:00:31,493 In the back of the ambulance, 1085 01:00:31,495 --> 01:00:35,997 And it's here that there is the one and only claim 1086 01:00:36,066 --> 01:00:37,666 That's made at any time 1087 01:00:37,734 --> 01:00:40,168 That the appellant said anything different 1088 01:00:40,237 --> 01:00:42,504 From what she's said to every other officer 1089 01:00:42,506 --> 01:00:45,173 In the continuum of events. 1090 01:00:45,242 --> 01:00:48,476 The only significant difference, 1091 01:00:48,545 --> 01:00:50,011 According to minhurst, 1092 01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:53,482 Was that she said that one of the home invaders 1093 01:00:53,550 --> 01:00:57,085 Had a pillow over cynara's face 1094 01:00:57,087 --> 01:00:59,488 When she came downstairs, 1095 01:00:59,490 --> 01:01:04,159 As opposed to, one of the intruders was holding a pillow. 1096 01:01:04,227 --> 01:01:07,095 She then, after talking in the ambulance 1097 01:01:07,164 --> 01:01:09,297 To the first responder, 1098 01:01:09,299 --> 01:01:12,567 Spoke to detective cole at the hospital. 1099 01:01:12,569 --> 01:01:14,603 Said the same things. 1100 01:01:14,605 --> 01:01:16,838 She then spoke, at some length, 1101 01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:19,508 To detective lou hakai and emmerson 1102 01:01:19,576 --> 01:01:21,610 At 42 division. 1103 01:01:23,514 --> 01:01:26,448 - The other guy had the pillow in his hand. 1104 01:01:26,516 --> 01:01:28,316 (james): Said the same things. 1105 01:01:28,384 --> 01:01:30,752 By the time she finished that statement, 1106 01:01:30,821 --> 01:01:33,722 Not only had she gone through 1107 01:01:33,724 --> 01:01:37,525 The death of her 16-year-old daughter, 1108 01:01:37,594 --> 01:01:42,197 But she had spent 13 hours 1109 01:01:42,265 --> 01:01:43,999 Talking to the police. 1110 01:01:44,001 --> 01:01:47,069 (filmmaker): Did you ever think to say no? 1111 01:01:47,137 --> 01:01:48,470 - No. 1112 01:01:48,472 --> 01:01:49,604 I didn't even know we could've said, "no, 1113 01:01:49,606 --> 01:01:52,073 I don't want to do it right away." I didn't know that. 1114 01:01:52,142 --> 01:01:56,744 I thought they say we have to do it, that we had to do it. 1115 01:01:56,746 --> 01:02:00,281 - I don't have any direct information to give you. 1116 01:02:00,283 --> 01:02:02,617 So I understand 1117 01:02:02,619 --> 01:02:04,952 That you're thinking about your daughter right now, 1118 01:02:05,022 --> 01:02:09,958 But I know she's in good hands at sick kids hospital. 1119 01:02:10,026 --> 01:02:12,827 - Yeah. I haven't seen her since then. 1120 01:02:12,896 --> 01:02:14,496 - You haven't seen her? - No. 1121 01:02:14,564 --> 01:02:17,432 - Okay. So, why don't we get this done 1122 01:02:17,434 --> 01:02:21,302 And then maybe get you to the hospital, 1123 01:02:21,371 --> 01:02:22,838 If that's where you want to go. 1124 01:02:22,906 --> 01:02:24,773 - That's where I want to be. - Okay. 1125 01:02:24,775 --> 01:02:26,441 - I remember I'd keep asking, 1126 01:02:26,509 --> 01:02:28,443 "does anybody have any information about cynara?" 1127 01:02:28,512 --> 01:02:30,378 And they said, "oh, she's fine, she's doing good." 1128 01:02:30,446 --> 01:02:32,914 So in my mind, she's good, she's okay. 1129 01:02:34,050 --> 01:02:37,853 Right? Well, that wasn't the case when I got to sick kids. 1130 01:02:41,525 --> 01:02:44,659 When they said she was fine... (sniffling) 1131 01:02:44,728 --> 01:02:46,261 ...I didn't expect to walk in and see her 1132 01:02:46,329 --> 01:02:50,665 Hooked up to all these machines and tubes and all those things. 1133 01:02:50,734 --> 01:02:54,536 I was told by one of the officers that I can't touch her 1134 01:02:54,604 --> 01:02:59,808 And I said, well, no, you can't tell me I can't touch her. 1135 01:03:00,677 --> 01:03:02,677 The nurse came in when I was touching her, and she's like, 1136 01:03:02,746 --> 01:03:04,579 You know, "go ahead and talk to her." 1137 01:03:04,581 --> 01:03:06,447 And she said, "your husband said 1138 01:03:06,516 --> 01:03:08,617 She doesn't like her head like that. 1139 01:03:08,619 --> 01:03:10,952 You can fix it." so I did. 1140 01:03:10,954 --> 01:03:15,557 And they put a chair for me, and I sat next to her, and I was... 1141 01:03:15,625 --> 01:03:19,060 Just talking to her and touching her. 1142 01:03:22,232 --> 01:03:24,432 And that's when he said, 1143 01:03:24,500 --> 01:03:26,802 "they're going to take her off life support." 1144 01:03:28,371 --> 01:03:30,806 (sniffling) 1145 01:03:36,713 --> 01:03:38,446 It was two weeks or three weeks 1146 01:03:38,448 --> 01:03:39,981 Before we could get the house back. 1147 01:03:39,983 --> 01:03:43,318 We were having a hard time coping. 1148 01:03:43,386 --> 01:03:46,254 I was having a really hard time 1149 01:03:46,323 --> 01:03:48,557 Even just coming back to the house. 1150 01:03:48,559 --> 01:03:51,860 It was devastating for everybody, 1151 01:03:51,862 --> 01:03:56,330 'cause here we were coming home to... 1152 01:03:56,400 --> 01:03:58,767 No cynara. 1153 01:04:00,804 --> 01:04:03,471 Couldn't eat, couldn't sleep, couldn't function. 1154 01:04:03,473 --> 01:04:05,774 Couldn't do anything. 1155 01:04:06,843 --> 01:04:08,476 I would even forget sometimes. 1156 01:04:08,545 --> 01:04:10,545 I would even say, "oh, I gotta get up, 1157 01:04:10,614 --> 01:04:12,814 I gotta make her formulas, I gotta..." 1158 01:04:12,883 --> 01:04:15,317 And he would say, "she's not here." 1159 01:04:20,356 --> 01:04:22,157 (sniffling) 1160 01:04:23,093 --> 01:04:26,294 (filmmaker): Do you remember, like, the time between 1161 01:04:26,362 --> 01:04:28,763 When cynara died, 1162 01:04:28,765 --> 01:04:33,501 To when all of this police investigation and... 1163 01:04:33,503 --> 01:04:35,971 Do you remember the time between? Like, it was... 1164 01:04:35,973 --> 01:04:39,440 You know, we're February, what, the 20th. 1165 01:04:39,509 --> 01:04:41,042 - Cynara? - Yeah. 1166 01:04:41,110 --> 01:04:43,511 - Cynara died on the 21st. - The 21st. 1167 01:04:43,579 --> 01:04:45,180 - Mm-hmm. - And then... 1168 01:04:45,182 --> 01:04:47,248 (reporter): Four days after a deadly home invasion, 1169 01:04:47,316 --> 01:04:49,851 Police arm themselves with laser equipment 1170 01:04:49,919 --> 01:04:53,254 To make a three-dimensional map of the house for investigators. 1171 01:04:53,256 --> 01:04:57,459 And while the questions keep coming, solid answers are few. 1172 01:04:58,194 --> 01:05:00,728 Alan ali thinks the intruders may have mistaken his home 1173 01:05:00,797 --> 01:05:02,464 For another unit in their complex, 1174 01:05:02,532 --> 01:05:04,265 Also numbered 118. 1175 01:05:04,334 --> 01:05:07,268 But the other owner says he too knows nothing 1176 01:05:07,337 --> 01:05:08,970 About the mysterious package. 1177 01:05:09,039 --> 01:05:10,805 - Nothing has showed up here, 1178 01:05:10,873 --> 01:05:12,540 So I don't know what they're looking for 1179 01:05:12,542 --> 01:05:13,441 Or what it could've been. 1180 01:05:13,443 --> 01:05:15,710 - We're asking the residents specifically 1181 01:05:15,778 --> 01:05:18,713 If they received packages, either by courier or by mail. 1182 01:05:18,715 --> 01:05:20,949 (reporter): Homicide detective sergeant frank skubic 1183 01:05:21,017 --> 01:05:22,851 Said he believes the woman's story that the men 1184 01:05:22,919 --> 01:05:25,687 Barged into her home looking for a package, 1185 01:05:25,689 --> 01:05:28,423 But the big question remains: Why? 1186 01:05:28,491 --> 01:05:30,691 (filmmaker): Did you feel at that point 1187 01:05:30,761 --> 01:05:35,030 That they were starting to think about you 1188 01:05:35,098 --> 01:05:37,632 As someone who had something to do with this? 1189 01:05:37,701 --> 01:05:40,902 - Absolutely not, no. I had no clue, no idea. 1190 01:05:40,971 --> 01:05:43,705 I didn't even think about it. 1191 01:05:43,707 --> 01:05:45,840 I thought maybe, okay, this is their routine. 1192 01:05:45,909 --> 01:05:48,109 I was hoping that they'd do what they had to do 1193 01:05:48,178 --> 01:05:51,512 And find out what happened and who did this. 1194 01:05:51,581 --> 01:05:54,315 (reporter): Police aren't the only ones struggling for answers. 1195 01:05:54,384 --> 01:05:56,151 Maybe neighbours in the quiet townhouse complex 1196 01:05:56,219 --> 01:05:59,754 Are having a hard time believing the house would be targeted. 1197 01:05:59,756 --> 01:06:01,990 - All the neighbours are in total disbelief 1198 01:06:02,058 --> 01:06:03,724 That it actually happened. 1199 01:06:03,794 --> 01:06:05,393 There are some theories that maybe it was 1200 01:06:05,461 --> 01:06:08,796 A mistaken identity, or did it even really happen? Or... 1201 01:06:08,865 --> 01:06:11,999 (reporter): Others are taking the allegations very seriously. 1202 01:06:12,069 --> 01:06:14,602 - I'm actually afraid they might come back, 1203 01:06:14,604 --> 01:06:16,604 Maybe get another house. 1204 01:06:16,606 --> 01:06:19,007 I don't know, but it's really frightening. 1205 01:06:19,075 --> 01:06:23,011 (reporter): Meanwhile, the townhouse remains a very active crime scene. 1206 01:06:26,883 --> 01:06:30,618 (filmmaker): Cindy, do you remember 1207 01:06:30,620 --> 01:06:33,888 When that first letter arrived? 1208 01:06:33,890 --> 01:06:37,425 - Um, yeah. I wasn't home when it came. 1209 01:06:39,829 --> 01:06:42,897 - So who found it? - Alan. 1210 01:06:43,833 --> 01:06:46,501 - I picked up the phone and I remember calling frank skubic, 1211 01:06:46,503 --> 01:06:50,705 And I said, "this is what I received." I read it to him, 1212 01:06:50,707 --> 01:06:54,576 And he said, "take it to 42." 1213 01:06:54,644 --> 01:06:56,845 And I took it directly to the police station 1214 01:06:56,847 --> 01:06:59,948 And then it just went all downhill from there. 1215 01:07:06,590 --> 01:07:11,192 - "when the boss say go get the package at 118, 1216 01:07:11,260 --> 01:07:12,861 That is what we come to do. 1217 01:07:12,929 --> 01:07:15,062 When we come to the door and ring the bell, 1218 01:07:15,132 --> 01:07:19,600 Some woman opened up but she tried to close back the door, 1219 01:07:19,602 --> 01:07:22,337 But we push we way in. 1220 01:07:23,873 --> 01:07:26,408 But the woman was sending me crazy, 1221 01:07:26,476 --> 01:07:30,278 Because all she keeps say is my baby, my baby. 1222 01:07:30,280 --> 01:07:32,680 She lucky we did not kill she. 1223 01:07:32,749 --> 01:07:37,218 She lucky we did not kill she." 1224 01:07:37,287 --> 01:07:39,387 - Mm-hmm. - That is a case of 1225 01:07:39,389 --> 01:07:43,358 Using "she" in both the subject and the object position. 1226 01:07:43,426 --> 01:07:48,429 Common in trinidadian, absent in jamaican creole. 1227 01:07:48,998 --> 01:07:53,300 (filmmaker): Can you describe what the two men sounded like? 1228 01:07:53,370 --> 01:07:58,306 - Um... Heavy accent, like jamaican. 1229 01:07:58,374 --> 01:07:59,974 Mm-hmm. 1230 01:08:00,043 --> 01:08:03,444 (filmmaker): And why do you say jamaican and not, like, bajan? 1231 01:08:03,446 --> 01:08:06,047 - Um, because the way they sounded 1232 01:08:06,115 --> 01:08:09,617 And the way they were speaking, I can tell. 1233 01:08:09,619 --> 01:08:11,519 I mean, we have jamaican families, 1234 01:08:11,587 --> 01:08:13,788 We know how they speak and the way they were speaking. 1235 01:08:15,791 --> 01:08:17,959 - "but them ****ing police." 1236 01:08:18,027 --> 01:08:22,763 Care catch we because we shoes has a cover over it." 1237 01:08:22,832 --> 01:08:27,836 We shoes has a cover over it. What do you think that means? 1238 01:08:29,539 --> 01:08:32,073 - There's a cover over the shoes. - Why? 1239 01:08:32,142 --> 01:08:34,609 - The police would call that "holdback information". 1240 01:08:34,611 --> 01:08:35,743 - Okay. 1241 01:08:35,745 --> 01:08:38,079 - Something that only the person who was there would know. 1242 01:08:38,148 --> 01:08:39,413 - Exactly, right? 1243 01:08:39,415 --> 01:08:41,683 Only the person who could have been there 1244 01:08:41,685 --> 01:08:42,750 Would know such a thing. 1245 01:08:42,819 --> 01:08:47,422 "it feel good to get she are couple of kick." 1246 01:08:47,424 --> 01:08:49,023 According to the author, 1247 01:08:49,091 --> 01:08:52,260 Somebody was physically assaulted inside the house. 1248 01:08:53,697 --> 01:08:56,096 "we still know what going on 1249 01:08:56,166 --> 01:08:58,098 Because we has friends living there, 1250 01:08:58,168 --> 01:09:02,604 And we does be they, all they all the time." 1251 01:09:02,672 --> 01:09:05,640 So, this expression here, 1252 01:09:05,708 --> 01:09:07,975 "we does be," 1253 01:09:08,712 --> 01:09:11,512 Common in caribbean english creoles. 1254 01:09:11,514 --> 01:09:13,982 It eliminates jamaican creole. 1255 01:09:14,050 --> 01:09:16,651 - Is it possible the writer of the letter 1256 01:09:16,719 --> 01:09:20,321 Is trying to make it sound like it's jamaican? 1257 01:09:20,389 --> 01:09:22,790 - Jamaican features 1258 01:09:22,792 --> 01:09:25,994 Wouldn't be hard to fake for a caribbean person. 1259 01:09:26,062 --> 01:09:28,262 If you wanted this to sound jamaican, 1260 01:09:28,331 --> 01:09:32,000 There are a few simple things that you could include 1261 01:09:32,068 --> 01:09:36,203 Or change that would cause jamaican 1262 01:09:36,272 --> 01:09:39,540 To come back into the pool and to raise to the top. 1263 01:09:39,609 --> 01:09:41,409 - And that's not there. - But they're absent. 1264 01:09:41,477 --> 01:09:43,077 - Yeah. - They're absent. 1265 01:09:45,915 --> 01:09:48,483 (filmmaker): Did you have anything to do with that letter? 1266 01:09:48,551 --> 01:09:50,417 - No. 1267 01:09:50,487 --> 01:09:52,487 No. 1268 01:09:53,557 --> 01:09:56,624 (filmmaker): Do you know who might have? 1269 01:09:56,692 --> 01:09:58,893 - No. 1270 01:09:59,863 --> 01:10:03,897 - I mean, I could easily see the letter written as a means 1271 01:10:03,967 --> 01:10:06,634 To try and stop the police investigating her, 1272 01:10:06,703 --> 01:10:08,235 'cause she knew they were doing that. 1273 01:10:08,237 --> 01:10:11,306 Stupid move, but at the end of the day, 1274 01:10:11,374 --> 01:10:14,442 It's got bugger all to do with guilt or innocence, right? 1275 01:10:14,444 --> 01:10:15,777 - Yeah. 1276 01:10:15,779 --> 01:10:18,346 (filmmaker): Do you feel confident enough... 1277 01:10:22,252 --> 01:10:24,986 To say, like, 1278 01:10:24,988 --> 01:10:27,722 "you could test me, have me write something, 1279 01:10:27,724 --> 01:10:29,324 It's not going to look like that letter"? 1280 01:10:29,392 --> 01:10:31,459 - Uh, we did. - You did? 1281 01:10:31,527 --> 01:10:34,395 - Yeah, we did. All of us did. 1282 01:10:34,464 --> 01:10:37,865 - You all wrote a sample? - Yes, we did. 1283 01:10:41,004 --> 01:10:44,606 - You and alan? - The kids. Everybody. 1284 01:10:44,674 --> 01:10:50,211 - They took handwriting, our saliva, we did fingerprints. 1285 01:10:50,280 --> 01:10:53,748 We did everything. 1286 01:10:53,816 --> 01:10:56,284 (alan): The detective frank skubic kept calling, 1287 01:10:56,352 --> 01:10:58,920 And calling, and calling, and wanted to talk to cindy, 1288 01:10:58,988 --> 01:11:01,789 And wanted to do this, and wanted to do that. 1289 01:11:19,976 --> 01:11:22,076 - All right. - All right? 1290 01:11:24,313 --> 01:11:26,714 - We understood fully what was happening. 1291 01:11:26,716 --> 01:11:28,249 They weren't looking for anybody, 1292 01:11:28,318 --> 01:11:30,184 They were looking at the family. 1293 01:11:30,920 --> 01:11:33,988 (jessica): The efforts intensified. 1294 01:11:33,990 --> 01:11:37,257 They wanted to use all the tools and manpower they had 1295 01:11:37,327 --> 01:11:40,128 To not only investigate the ali family, 1296 01:11:40,196 --> 01:11:41,795 But all their known associates, 1297 01:11:41,865 --> 01:11:43,597 And family members, and friends. 1298 01:11:43,666 --> 01:11:46,801 Track their vehicles, track their phone lines, 1299 01:11:46,803 --> 01:11:49,470 Put number recorders on their phone lines, 1300 01:11:49,539 --> 01:11:52,807 Which would indicate incoming calls and the outgoing calls. 1301 01:11:52,809 --> 01:11:55,275 (filmmaker): So the ali family suspected 1302 01:11:55,345 --> 01:11:56,744 That their house was bugged, 1303 01:11:56,812 --> 01:11:59,347 That they were set up to away on the... 1304 01:11:59,349 --> 01:12:01,682 - Yes. - Did it in fact happen? 1305 01:12:01,684 --> 01:12:04,819 - Yes, it did happen. 1306 01:12:04,821 --> 01:12:10,024 It was that day that the probes were installed in their home. 1307 01:12:16,032 --> 01:12:19,867 (amanda): It was like six o'clock, early, early in the morning. 1308 01:12:20,903 --> 01:12:23,971 Just heard a loud bang on the door. 1309 01:12:24,974 --> 01:12:28,376 My boyfriend at the time ran down, came back up, 1310 01:12:28,444 --> 01:12:30,377 And he's like, "it's the swat team." 1311 01:12:30,446 --> 01:12:32,780 And I'm like, the what? Right? 1312 01:12:32,848 --> 01:12:34,915 Like... I felt like I was in a movie. 1313 01:12:34,984 --> 01:12:37,084 Then the next thing you know, 1314 01:12:37,086 --> 01:12:40,053 All I see was like these large guns, and like masks. 1315 01:12:40,055 --> 01:12:42,256 I'm like, oh my gosh, what is going on? 1316 01:12:43,325 --> 01:12:46,394 They told me to put my hands behind my back, I was zip-tied, 1317 01:12:46,396 --> 01:12:47,594 I was put in the car. 1318 01:12:47,664 --> 01:12:50,664 So everyone in the house is pretty much in different cars, 1319 01:12:50,666 --> 01:12:53,801 And they took all our phones, anything electronic. 1320 01:12:53,803 --> 01:12:57,138 I think they went through everything in the house. 1321 01:12:58,408 --> 01:13:00,908 They even had the dogs there. 1322 01:13:02,678 --> 01:13:05,680 (jessica): The way that the alis were investigated 1323 01:13:05,748 --> 01:13:11,152 Is similar to the kind of investigation you see in a gang. 1324 01:13:11,554 --> 01:13:13,086 It was a huge investigation, 1325 01:13:13,156 --> 01:13:16,824 A ton of resources and manpower was invested into this. 1326 01:13:16,893 --> 01:13:18,759 Multiple search warrants executed 1327 01:13:18,828 --> 01:13:21,695 In multiple places over multiple jurisdictions. 1328 01:13:21,697 --> 01:13:24,298 They produced nothing. 1329 01:13:24,367 --> 01:13:28,002 The investigation became tunnel vision. 1330 01:13:30,240 --> 01:13:32,373 The police... 1331 01:13:32,442 --> 01:13:35,376 They were working with two parallel ideas. 1332 01:13:35,378 --> 01:13:38,579 One was this home invasion didn't happen. 1333 01:13:38,647 --> 01:13:42,183 Not only did it not happen, but cindy lied about it. 1334 01:13:42,251 --> 01:13:45,119 And two, cynara died 1335 01:13:45,187 --> 01:13:48,055 Under malicious circumstances, someone killed her. 1336 01:13:48,057 --> 01:13:52,059 And when those two ideas logically play out, 1337 01:13:52,061 --> 01:13:54,595 Cindy was the one who had exclusive opportunity, 1338 01:13:54,664 --> 01:13:57,198 So cindy must have killed her. 1339 01:13:57,200 --> 01:14:01,802 This was the idea that the police were convinced of, 1340 01:14:01,804 --> 01:14:04,238 And that's what they pursued. 1341 01:14:59,395 --> 01:15:02,462 - Then they arrested cindy. 1342 01:15:02,532 --> 01:15:05,732 And I remember... 1343 01:15:05,802 --> 01:15:07,668 Calling cindy and saying, listen... 1344 01:15:07,737 --> 01:15:10,738 I'll fight this. 1345 01:15:15,545 --> 01:15:18,012 (judge): Miss ali, please stand up. 1346 01:15:23,486 --> 01:15:27,088 Miss ali, you've been convicted of the first degree murder 1347 01:15:27,090 --> 01:15:28,956 Of your daughter, cynara ali. 1348 01:15:29,025 --> 01:15:31,892 That means both that the jury found that you smothered cynara 1349 01:15:31,894 --> 01:15:35,696 And that you did so in a planned and deliberate fashion. 1350 01:15:35,698 --> 01:15:38,499 As you've been convicted of first degree murder, 1351 01:15:38,568 --> 01:15:42,569 The sentence I must impose upon you is mandatory. 1352 01:15:43,238 --> 01:15:45,439 I hereby sentence you to life in prison 1353 01:15:45,441 --> 01:15:48,242 With a parole ineligibility of 25 years. 1354 01:15:48,244 --> 01:15:51,679 (women sobbing) 1355 01:15:54,116 --> 01:15:57,050 (shouting) 1356 01:15:57,120 --> 01:16:01,856 (sobbing) 1357 01:16:09,732 --> 01:16:14,635 (indistinct shouting) 1358 01:16:35,891 --> 01:16:38,025 (alan): Father, in the name of jesus, 1359 01:16:38,094 --> 01:16:41,162 We come before you tonight and I say thank you 1360 01:16:41,164 --> 01:16:43,631 For all the many blessings 1361 01:16:43,699 --> 01:16:47,501 That you have bestowed upon us during this journey. 1362 01:16:47,569 --> 01:16:49,637 But god, as I look back on this journey, 1363 01:16:49,639 --> 01:16:51,772 I thank you for the people that you've put into place 1364 01:16:51,841 --> 01:16:55,575 Every step of the way to help us along. 1365 01:16:55,645 --> 01:16:58,779 We thank you, oh god, for each and every one of them, 1366 01:16:58,781 --> 01:17:00,981 And tonight I pray a special blessing 1367 01:17:01,050 --> 01:17:04,051 And give us the energy to move forward and to continue 1368 01:17:04,120 --> 01:17:05,519 Fighting for this case, 1369 01:17:05,587 --> 01:17:08,922 And for the injustices that we've seen over the years. 1370 01:17:08,991 --> 01:17:13,527 - There is a higher court than the courts of men, 1371 01:17:13,529 --> 01:17:17,398 And so lord, we make our appeal to that higher court. 1372 01:17:17,400 --> 01:17:19,266 We come humbly before you, 1373 01:17:19,268 --> 01:17:23,270 But also, lord, with full confidence and full assurance, 1374 01:17:23,272 --> 01:17:24,404 Knowing that you hear us. 1375 01:17:24,473 --> 01:17:27,474 And so, as we lift cindy up to your throne of grace, lord, 1376 01:17:27,476 --> 01:17:30,811 We ask that there will be a change of heart, 1377 01:17:30,880 --> 01:17:32,612 There will be a change of decision, 1378 01:17:32,682 --> 01:17:33,814 There will be a change of the ruling, 1379 01:17:33,816 --> 01:17:37,618 That she will not fall into anxiety, reliving these things, 1380 01:17:37,620 --> 01:17:39,753 Oh, god, the nightmares of the past, 1381 01:17:39,822 --> 01:17:43,424 But father, that she would be strengthened 1382 01:17:43,426 --> 01:17:46,494 To withstand and to hear, 1383 01:17:46,562 --> 01:17:49,296 And lord, even to pray and believe again and hope again, 1384 01:17:49,364 --> 01:17:54,368 And we pray just a special wisdom upon james 1385 01:17:54,370 --> 01:17:55,569 As he handles this case, oh god. 1386 01:17:55,571 --> 01:17:59,840 We just ask that you would be with him in that courtroom. 1387 01:17:59,842 --> 01:18:05,813 That your will would be done. Truth will prevail. 1388 01:18:06,382 --> 01:18:09,383 (laptop chimes) 1389 01:18:09,451 --> 01:18:13,621 - The court resumes. - Go ahead, mr. Lockyer. 1390 01:18:13,689 --> 01:18:16,924 - Thank you. I'm going to start by submitting 1391 01:18:16,926 --> 01:18:19,059 That the trial judge made a number of errors 1392 01:18:19,061 --> 01:18:23,130 In his after-the-fact directions to the jury. 1393 01:18:23,199 --> 01:18:26,267 I'm going to suggest that his directions, 1394 01:18:26,335 --> 01:18:29,737 Many of them, presumed guilt. 1395 01:18:29,805 --> 01:18:33,808 The most serious error he made was his suggestion that, 1396 01:18:33,810 --> 01:18:37,745 In his opinion, there were no alternative explanations 1397 01:18:37,813 --> 01:18:41,415 For the appellant lying about the home invasion. 1398 01:18:41,417 --> 01:18:42,983 The trial judge told the jury 1399 01:18:43,051 --> 01:18:45,686 That there could only be two causes of death: 1400 01:18:45,688 --> 01:18:50,491 Suffocation or an accidental death 1401 01:18:50,493 --> 01:18:52,727 In the midst of a home invasion. 1402 01:18:54,030 --> 01:18:56,831 And in this way, or in these two ways, 1403 01:18:56,899 --> 01:18:59,099 This trial became about 1404 01:18:59,101 --> 01:19:01,569 Whether or not there was a home invasion, 1405 01:19:01,637 --> 01:19:06,507 Rather than whether or not the appellant did anything 1406 01:19:06,575 --> 01:19:09,844 That caused the death of her daughter. 1407 01:19:09,846 --> 01:19:14,582 The sections headed post-offence conduct, 1408 01:19:14,650 --> 01:19:18,652 The staging of the crime scene, post-offence conduct. 1409 01:19:18,721 --> 01:19:22,089 All three of those headings were objectionable. 1410 01:19:22,091 --> 01:19:25,725 Post-offence conduct presumes an offence. 1411 01:19:25,727 --> 01:19:28,462 The staging of the crime scene 1412 01:19:28,531 --> 01:19:31,265 Presumes the staging of the crime scene. 1413 01:19:31,267 --> 01:19:34,601 And any juror listening to this could not help 1414 01:19:34,670 --> 01:19:36,670 But get the impression 1415 01:19:36,739 --> 01:19:39,740 That there is a presumption here 1416 01:19:39,742 --> 01:19:42,876 That she killed cynara. 1417 01:19:42,945 --> 01:19:45,212 To use the term post-offence conduct 1418 01:19:45,214 --> 01:19:48,682 Is not in itself sufficient to warrant a new trial, 1419 01:19:48,684 --> 01:19:51,485 But the trial judge just does it again and again and again. 1420 01:19:51,553 --> 01:19:56,423 He used that phrase 48 times in his charge. 1421 01:19:56,425 --> 01:19:58,692 I had no idea it was that many. 1422 01:19:58,760 --> 01:20:02,563 48 times, that is... That speaks for itself. 1423 01:20:03,199 --> 01:20:06,166 He then goes on, "on the other hand, if you find cindy ali 1424 01:20:06,235 --> 01:20:09,436 Actually did or said what she's alleged to have done or said 1425 01:20:09,505 --> 01:20:11,238 After the offence was committed..." 1426 01:20:11,307 --> 01:20:14,174 He needn't have put the word "alleged" there. 1427 01:20:14,176 --> 01:20:17,978 Not at least in the context of what she said to the police. 1428 01:20:18,046 --> 01:20:20,113 "...You must consider next whether 1429 01:20:20,182 --> 01:20:22,782 This was because cindy ali committed the offence charged, 1430 01:20:22,852 --> 01:20:25,519 Or whether it was for some other reason." 1431 01:20:25,988 --> 01:20:29,122 I mean, really, what on earth is the trial judge saying there? 1432 01:20:29,191 --> 01:20:31,859 What he's saying is, the "some other reason" is 1433 01:20:31,861 --> 01:20:32,993 She told the truth. 1434 01:20:32,995 --> 01:20:36,931 That's the "some other reason". What a way to say it. 1435 01:20:36,933 --> 01:20:41,468 It's a continuing presumption in this charge, 1436 01:20:41,470 --> 01:20:43,003 That she's guilty. 1437 01:20:43,005 --> 01:20:46,740 That she lied about the home invasion. 1438 01:20:46,742 --> 01:20:49,209 That the letter was written by her. 1439 01:20:49,211 --> 01:20:51,111 (doherty): Isn't he, in effect, telling them 1440 01:20:51,113 --> 01:20:54,014 That if they have any doubt about who wrote the letter, 1441 01:20:54,016 --> 01:20:55,816 It's off the table as evidence? 1442 01:20:55,885 --> 01:20:59,553 And isn't that a very favourable instruction? 1443 01:20:59,622 --> 01:21:02,155 - He hasn't included in the alternatives 1444 01:21:02,224 --> 01:21:04,824 That someone wrote it thinking misguidedly 1445 01:21:04,894 --> 01:21:06,827 That they would help the appellant, 1446 01:21:06,895 --> 01:21:09,230 Which was the defence. 1447 01:21:09,298 --> 01:21:13,100 There are a number of scenarios that one can visualize. 1448 01:21:13,102 --> 01:21:15,435 She could easily have panicked if her daughter 1449 01:21:15,437 --> 01:21:17,571 Had simply died of natural causes, 1450 01:21:17,573 --> 01:21:20,107 Because her daughter's in her care. 1451 01:21:20,175 --> 01:21:23,577 Maybe the appellant did something accidentally to cynara 1452 01:21:23,646 --> 01:21:25,913 That caused her to have a seizure. 1453 01:21:25,981 --> 01:21:27,982 She may have dropped her. 1454 01:21:27,984 --> 01:21:31,785 Maybe she just felt responsible 1455 01:21:31,853 --> 01:21:36,456 Because cynara was clearly in her care. 1456 01:21:36,525 --> 01:21:40,661 She could have invented 1457 01:21:40,663 --> 01:21:44,732 A home invasion and been the author, in effect, 1458 01:21:44,800 --> 01:21:47,067 Of that March 19 letter, 1459 01:21:47,136 --> 01:21:51,872 But cynara still died of natural causes, 1460 01:21:51,940 --> 01:21:55,008 And/or cynara died as a result 1461 01:21:55,077 --> 01:21:59,413 Of something that the appellant did accidentally. 1462 01:21:59,415 --> 01:22:04,551 Any number of scenarios that one could imagine. 1463 01:22:12,962 --> 01:22:16,796 Now, it could be good news, it could be very bad news. 1464 01:22:16,866 --> 01:22:17,831 (cindy): Right. Mm-hmm. - All right? 1465 01:22:17,899 --> 01:22:21,635 (james): Um, when I walk in the room, I will know. 1466 01:22:21,703 --> 01:22:24,838 If it's bad news, you'll have to surrender tonight, 1467 01:22:24,907 --> 01:22:28,575 Facing the prospect of being in 'til 2042. 1468 01:22:28,643 --> 01:22:31,111 - Right. - All right? That's a reality. 1469 01:22:31,180 --> 01:22:32,980 - Yeah. 1470 01:22:33,649 --> 01:22:36,050 - Okay. All right, let's get you in there. 1471 01:22:36,118 --> 01:22:38,719 - All right. - And I will come in... 1472 01:22:38,787 --> 01:22:39,853 - Okay. 1473 01:22:39,855 --> 01:22:42,389 - ...In about five or six minutes. 1474 01:22:42,391 --> 01:22:44,158 - Okay. 1475 01:22:54,270 --> 01:22:56,804 - Okay, nothing. It hasn't come yet. 1476 01:22:56,872 --> 01:22:59,873 You realize the best you're gonna get is a new trial, right? 1477 01:22:59,875 --> 01:23:02,142 - Yeah, yeah. - Okay, okay. 1478 01:23:04,346 --> 01:23:06,479 (jessica): Are you feeling comfortable? 1479 01:23:06,481 --> 01:23:08,015 - Yeah, I'm okay. 1480 01:23:08,083 --> 01:23:11,151 We was... I was up all night... For the past couple days. 1481 01:23:11,220 --> 01:23:13,220 (alan): I couldn't sleep, so I was just in and out. 1482 01:23:13,222 --> 01:23:16,523 (jessica): Yeah. Sick sitting here. 1483 01:23:25,568 --> 01:23:28,302 (distant indistinct chatter) 1484 01:23:48,790 --> 01:23:51,392 - You won the appeal. (gasping) 1485 01:23:51,460 --> 01:23:54,194 - Wow. - Oh, my god. 1486 01:23:54,196 --> 01:23:56,396 - We won in terms of...? - It's a new trial. 1487 01:23:56,398 --> 01:23:58,866 - New trial? - Oh, congratulations. 1488 01:23:58,934 --> 01:24:01,668 - That is excellent news. - Thank you. 1489 01:24:01,736 --> 01:24:04,938 - It's all right. So, congratulations. 1490 01:24:04,940 --> 01:24:06,140 - Thank you. 1491 01:24:06,208 --> 01:24:09,410 - Yeah, it's a relief to, you know... 1492 01:24:11,814 --> 01:24:14,347 We gotta do a better job next time, somehow. 1493 01:24:14,349 --> 01:24:16,483 'cause I think it was a miscarriage of justice, 1494 01:24:16,552 --> 01:24:21,554 And it will be even retrying it as a miscarriage of justice, 1495 01:24:21,556 --> 01:24:22,890 In my view, but... 1496 01:24:22,892 --> 01:24:25,492 - So the presumption of innocence is back. 1497 01:24:25,561 --> 01:24:26,960 - Oh, yes. - Okay. 1498 01:24:26,962 --> 01:24:29,096 - But it's a relief. I'm very pleased for you. 1499 01:24:29,098 --> 01:24:30,631 - Thank you. 1500 01:24:30,633 --> 01:24:32,365 (jim): "a jury that convicted the toronto mother 1501 01:24:32,434 --> 01:24:34,768 Of murdering her 16-year-old disabled daughter 1502 01:24:34,770 --> 01:24:36,703 Was straitjacketed into a decision 1503 01:24:36,772 --> 01:24:39,106 That limited their choice to either acquitting her 1504 01:24:39,174 --> 01:24:42,909 Or finding she had committed a planned and deliberate killing," 1505 01:24:42,911 --> 01:24:44,444 A defence lawyer argued 1506 01:24:44,513 --> 01:24:46,780 At the ontario court of appeal this week. 1507 01:24:48,717 --> 01:24:53,320 (cheering) 1508 01:24:53,388 --> 01:24:56,657 - It's all right, you can go. - I can go? Thank you, james. 1509 01:24:56,725 --> 01:24:58,926 - Okay, cindy. - Thank you very much. 1510 01:24:58,994 --> 01:25:00,994 - Take care. Be in touch. - Yes. 1511 01:25:01,063 --> 01:25:04,198 (jim): James lockyer, ali's lawyer, 1512 01:25:04,200 --> 01:25:07,534 Argued five grounds for a new trial before a three-judge panel 1513 01:25:07,536 --> 01:25:09,269 At the court of appeal. 1514 01:25:09,271 --> 01:25:11,404 The reasons included the trial judge's failure 1515 01:25:11,406 --> 01:25:14,074 To charge the jury with an alternative option 1516 01:25:14,143 --> 01:25:16,443 That ali might have panicked and made up a story 1517 01:25:16,445 --> 01:25:19,479 About home invasion after her daughter became ill. 1518 01:25:19,548 --> 01:25:21,214 (indistinct chatter) 1519 01:25:21,283 --> 01:25:23,483 - Oh, really? What, custody? Or what? 1520 01:25:23,552 --> 01:25:25,385 (indistinct chatter) 1521 01:25:25,454 --> 01:25:27,754 (jim): Lockyer argued there was no motive 1522 01:25:27,823 --> 01:25:29,156 For ali to kill her daughter, 1523 01:25:29,224 --> 01:25:31,191 And according to evidence presented at trial, 1524 01:25:31,259 --> 01:25:32,692 The girl was well cared for. 1525 01:25:33,295 --> 01:25:36,429 "the ali family had some debt at the time of cynara's death," 1526 01:25:36,498 --> 01:25:39,500 Said lockyer, which made them no different than quote, 1527 01:25:39,568 --> 01:25:42,702 Hundreds of thousands, end quote, of canadians. 1528 01:25:43,372 --> 01:25:45,038 "the jury should have been told 1529 01:25:45,040 --> 01:25:47,741 There was no proven motive in the case," he said. 1530 01:25:50,312 --> 01:25:53,647 - Today, we have cindy with us, 1531 01:25:53,715 --> 01:25:57,050 After many, many, many years. 1532 01:25:57,052 --> 01:25:58,718 (applause) 1533 01:25:58,787 --> 01:26:00,287 And... 1534 01:26:19,141 --> 01:26:20,807 I know... 1535 01:26:20,875 --> 01:26:22,543 Sorry. 1536 01:26:27,949 --> 01:26:30,918 (voice breaking): I know that some of you don't know her. 1537 01:26:36,091 --> 01:26:37,757 But this is one of those 1538 01:26:37,826 --> 01:26:40,761 God stories that we don't understand. 1539 01:26:46,368 --> 01:26:50,069 It was a journey of grief and pain. 1540 01:26:51,040 --> 01:26:55,175 To be honest, we never thought we would see this day. 1541 01:26:55,444 --> 01:26:57,443 Would you stand up 1542 01:26:57,513 --> 01:26:59,446 And honour the woman of god? 1543 01:26:59,514 --> 01:27:03,350 (applause) 1544 01:27:15,331 --> 01:27:19,299 (soft music) 124415

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