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Where are we going?
We're going down this way.
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00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:34,600
Can you get me a Coca-Cola
for Mr Bowie, please?
3
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'I'm only using rock 'n' roll
as a medium.
4
00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:39,760
'I don't think it had been
really voiced before then.
5
00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:42,600
'I wanted to be the instigator
of new ideas.
6
00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:46,000
'I wanted to turn people on to
new things and new perspectives.
7
00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:49,160
'I always wanted to be that sort of
catalystic kind of thing.'
8
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I mean, the image you have
has got almost nothing to do
9
00:00:58,240 --> 00:00:59,280
with your real life.
10
00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:01,440
'It depends on which image
you're talking about.
11
00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:04,520
'I've seen so many because, of
course, there will be so many.'
12
00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:06,520
It's like looking
at an actor's films
13
00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:09,640
and taking clippings from the films
and saying, "Here he is," you know.
14
00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:12,160
Well, that's where you're different
from most rock stars.
15
00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:14,480
Well, I'm not a rock star, you see.
You've just said it.
16
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I'm not in rock and roll.
That's nice.
17
00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:17,520
MUSIC: "Fashion"
by David Bowie
18
00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:18,560
# Fashion!
19
00:01:18,560 --> 00:01:19,800
# Turn to the left
20
00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:20,880
# Fashion!
21
00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:22,120
# Turn to the right
22
00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:24,440
# Oooh, fashion!
23
00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:29,160
# We are the goon squad
And we're coming to town
24
00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:30,840
# Beep-beep. #
25
00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:33,440
I've always found that
I collect. I am a collector.
26
00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:39,880
And I've always just seemed
to collect personalities, ideas.
27
00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:43,240
# Let's dance
28
00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:46,600
# Put on your red shoes
and dance the blues... #
29
00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:49,560
I'm a storyteller
and I'm a storywriter
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00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:53,400
and I decided that I preferred
to enact a lot of the material
31
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I was writing, rather than
perform it as myself.
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00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:04,560
# There's a starman
33
00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:06,720
# Waiting in the sky
34
00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:15,040
# There's a starman
35
00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:18,480
# Waiting in the sky. #
36
00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:20,560
I think I'm a fairly good
social observer,
37
00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:25,080
and I think that I encapsulate areas
maybe every year or so.
38
00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:27,840
I'm trying to stamp that
down somewhere,
39
00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:29,880
the quintessence of that year.
40
00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:32,720
MUSIC: "Oh You Pretty Things"
by David Bowie
41
00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:34,320
# Let me make it plain
42
00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:37,600
# Gotta make way
For the Homo Superior. #
43
00:02:47,640 --> 00:02:51,280
'I wanted to make a mark and I
didn't quite know how to do it,
44
00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:54,960
'and it took me all the '60s to try
everything that I could think of
45
00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:57,200
'in terms of theatre
and arts and music,
46
00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:00,120
'to find out what exactly it was
I wanted to do anyway.
47
00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:06,760
'I was learning about how to play
rhythm and blues,
48
00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:10,760
'learning how to write, finding all
these, everything that I read,
49
00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:13,520
'every film that I saw,
any bit of theatre,
50
00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:16,280
'everything went into my mind
as being an influence.'
51
00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:17,560
'But at the time, I thought,
52
00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:19,760
' "God, that's going in
my memory bank."
53
00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:25,480
'But just about the end of the '60s,
it started to come together for me
54
00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:28,000
'that there was a way of expressing,
not only musically,
55
00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:29,720
'but visually what one can do.'
56
00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:31,200
# Well
57
00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:34,760
# She takes me up
58
00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:36,760
# She takes me down
59
00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:39,320
# She takes me down, down, down
60
00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:41,240
# Anywhere you want me to be. #
61
00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:55,280
You ready?
62
00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:57,680
Yeah.
63
00:03:57,680 --> 00:03:59,760
MUSIC: "Andy Warhol"
by David Bowie
64
00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:05,400
# Like to take a cement fix
65
00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:07,280
# Be a standing cinema
66
00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:10,720
# Dress my friends up just for show
67
00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,840
# See them as they really are. #
68
00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:15,160
Warhol, scene one, take one.
69
00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:20,080
# Put a peephole in my brain
70
00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:22,280
# Two new pence to have a go
71
00:04:23,280 --> 00:04:25,640
# I'd like to be a gallery
72
00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:29,040
# Put you all inside my show. #
73
00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,680
How come your camera
doesn't make any noise?
74
00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:37,960
'This guy was as well-known
as the work that he did.'
75
00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:42,240
'In fact, probably more people knew
the name and the look of Andy Warhol
76
00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:44,440
'than actually knew
what it was he did.'
77
00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:45,760
Oh, it's so glamorous.
78
00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:52,520
Bowie admired Warhol, but also felt
competitive with him, in some way.
79
00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:59,200
I think he understood that Warhol's
work had waned in the prior years.
80
00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:03,040
Bowie felt on Warhol's level,
81
00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:06,360
wanted to be taken as his peer,
and rightly so.
82
00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:11,400
'I did write a song about him,
and that rather linked me to him,
83
00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:12,640
'in a certain way.'
84
00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:15,120
# Andy Warhol looks a scream
85
00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:18,280
# Hang him on my wall, oh-oh, oh-oh
86
00:05:18,280 --> 00:05:20,720
# Andy Warhol, silver screen
87
00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:22,760
# Can't tell them apart at all
88
00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:26,800
# Oh-oh, oh-oh, oh. #
89
00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:30,080
'He hated it. He loathed it.
He told people afterwards,
90
00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:32,520
' "That's the worst thing
I've ever heard."
91
00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:36,520
'I was upset by that, you know.
92
00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:38,960
'I thought it was kind of a
flattering portrait of him.
93
00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:41,080
'I thought it was a very
contemporary picture
94
00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:42,800
'of Andy at the time.'
95
00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:44,720
If you'd like to take
the camera back,
96
00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:48,040
I'd prefer to do something.
97
00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:49,680
You going to do something, still?
No.
98
00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,320
I do feel that Bowie felt
disappointed
99
00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:56,640
in not being embraced by Warhol,
100
00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:00,120
and certainly dramatised
his own sense of disease
101
00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:03,280
by doing his hilarious
disembowelling mime
102
00:06:03,280 --> 00:06:07,160
at the end of the video that
recorded this ill encounter.
103
00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:15,440
'Oh, that's right.
104
00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:20,120
'Did he really?
105
00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:25,160
'Oh, that's nice.'
106
00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:34,480
With Andy Warhol from Hunky Dory,
you've got the sense
107
00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:38,360
that Bowie's one of the first people
who's able to essay
108
00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:42,440
the experience of stardom,
wanting to be a star,
109
00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:45,280
imagining what it's like
to be a star.
110
00:06:45,280 --> 00:06:48,200
And even the cover picture has
a sense that he knows
111
00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:52,560
that he's starting to turn himself
into what, if you're being romantic,
112
00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:55,080
you'd call an icon, and if
you're being horribly cynical
113
00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:57,360
and 21st-century,
you'd call a brand.
114
00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:58,760
But I'd rather not use that word
115
00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:01,920
because it's a huge disservice
to what we're talking about.
116
00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:04,560
# Ch-ch-ch-ch-changes
117
00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:06,360
# Turn and face the stranger
118
00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:08,240
# Ch-ch-changes
119
00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,200
# Don't want to have to be
A richer man
120
00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:13,400
# Ch-ch-ch-ch-changes
121
00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:15,520
# Turn and face the stranger
122
00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:17,120
# Ch-ch-changes
123
00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:20,000
# Just wanted to be a better man
124
00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,960
# Time may change me
125
00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:26,640
# But I can't trace time. #
126
00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:28,680
I got a call from David,
he called me directly,
127
00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:30,720
and he said, "Can you come over
to the house?"
128
00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:34,920
And I sat there with him, and he
took out this battered old
129
00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:39,400
12-string guitar and said,
"I'm going to play you some songs."
130
00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:42,440
And he played me these songs
one after the other.
131
00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:49,960
# It's a God-awful small affair
132
00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:54,120
# To the girl with the mousy hair
133
00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:57,800
# But her mummy is yelling "No"
134
00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:01,680
# And her daddy has told her to go
135
00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:07,280
# But her friend is nowhere
To be seen
136
00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:10,600
# Now she walks
through her sunken dream... #
137
00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:13,320
"Life On Mars?", from Hunky Dory,
138
00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:16,720
was certainly the stand-out song
for me,
139
00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:18,440
but it was a challenge in
certain areas,
140
00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:20,440
because of some of
the chord structure,
141
00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:22,880
because he would lead you down
the garden path with quite
142
00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:25,640
a bog-standard chord structure,
and then suddenly go AWOL.
143
00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:27,280
Now I've got to try and remember
this,
144
00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:29,440
because it is 40 years since
I've played it, but...
145
00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:32,480
HE PLAYS "Life On Mars?"
146
00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:47,480
# But her friend is nowhere
To be seen
147
00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:51,360
# Now she walks through
Her sunken dream
148
00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:55,560
# To the seat with
The clearest view... #
149
00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:03,080
Now this is a classic example of
where he throws in a chord
150
00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:04,520
that you wouldn't expect.
151
00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:05,840
Normally after...
152
00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:07,520
HE PLAYS SEQUENCE
153
00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:10,160
You would expect it to go back
there, but he doesn't. He goes...
154
00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:12,960
HE PLAYS SEQUENCE
155
00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:14,920
But the thing that makes
it really clever
156
00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:16,880
is he put an E flat in the bass,
157
00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:21,640
which just gives it a bass part
that you can start to move on.
158
00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:23,040
Really clever, so you've got...
159
00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:25,240
HE PLAYS SEQUENCE
160
00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:28,680
# But the film is a saddening bore
161
00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:32,320
# For she's lived it
ten times or more. #
162
00:09:39,040 --> 00:09:41,280
Now, after that chord,
you would expect it to go to...
163
00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:42,720
HE PLAYS CHORD
164
00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:44,040
But he doesn't.
165
00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:47,280
HE PLAYS SEQUENCE
166
00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:51,240
I mean, nobody... Only David would
do something like that.
167
00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:55,600
HE PLAYS SEQUENCE
168
00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:08,720
It's a piano player's joy. In fact,
I must go home and learn it.
169
00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:12,080
# Take a look at the lawman
170
00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:14,480
# Beating up the wrong guy
171
00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:17,680
# Oh, man! Wonder if he'll ever know
172
00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:23,760
# He's in the best-selling show
173
00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:29,400
# Is there life on Mars? #
174
00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:35,080
"Life On Mars?" is sort of magic
realism, really,
175
00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:36,320
if you listen to it,
176
00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:38,960
that you recognise it
as a song about Britain.
177
00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:40,960
And there are references in it
which anyone
178
00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:43,280
who grew up in suburbia
would understand.
179
00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:46,080
Very mundane, and yet it's magical.
180
00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:48,800
You know, he's seen the cosmos
in the bus stop.
181
00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:51,000
# It's on America's tortured brow
182
00:10:52,560 --> 00:10:55,320
# That Mickey Mouse
Has grown up a cow
183
00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:58,880
# Now the workers have
Struck for fame
184
00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:03,480
# Cos Lennon's on sale again. #
185
00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:06,680
The vocals are performances,
they are real, they are live,
186
00:11:06,680 --> 00:11:10,280
and I think that's one of the reasons
we're still talking about them today,
187
00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:14,480
because they do resonate with
people. Unlike the manufactured
188
00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:19,440
and thrown-together vocals that are
so prevalent today, his are real.
189
00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:37,240
# I'm up on the eleventh floor
And I'm watching the cruisers below
190
00:11:40,560 --> 00:11:45,960
# Well, I'm down on the street
And he's trying hard to... #
191
00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:47,000
Sorry.
192
00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:51,160
Although most of Hunky Dory
is not a rock record,
193
00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:53,520
there are stirrings
of the Bowie to come.
194
00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:55,960
When you listen to Queen Bitch,
it swings.
195
00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:57,600
It has raunch to it, you know.
196
00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:00,080
That record shakes its hips
very convincingly.
197
00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:03,800
# Well, it could have been me
198
00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:06,000
# Yes, it could have been me
199
00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:07,720
# Why didn't I say?
200
00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:09,240
# Why didn't I say?
201
00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:15,480
# She's so swishy
In her satin and tat
202
00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:19,040
# In her frock coat
And bipperty-bopperty hat
203
00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:22,920
# Oh, God, I could do better
than that. #
204
00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:25,160
'I think I was getting nearer
to what I wanted to do,
205
00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:27,720
'which is to create
this alternative world,
206
00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:29,360
'and Hunky Dory was the first,
207
00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:32,840
'really stepping off this planet
and going somewhere else.'
208
00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:38,280
So, we'd finished Hunky Dory,
and a couple of weeks later
209
00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:41,600
I ran into David walking along the
corridor of Trident Studios
210
00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:44,560
and he comes up to me and he says,
"We're going to record a new album,"
211
00:12:44,560 --> 00:12:46,240
"But you're not going to like it."
212
00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,440
I said, "Why?" and he said, "Well,
this is much more rock and roll."
213
00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:52,760
# I'm an alligator
214
00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:56,600
# I'm a mama-papa coming for you. #
215
00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:12,720
Bowie's always been brilliant at
finding the right collaborators.
216
00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:15,680
He had the extraordinary Mick Ronson,
217
00:13:15,680 --> 00:13:21,960
who could strike amazing guitar hero
poses and fill the hall with riffs
218
00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:26,400
in such a way that Bowie shared
the stage with Ronson
219
00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:30,360
in a way that he's never shared
a stage with anyone else.
220
00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:38,840
# Freak out in a moon-age daydream,
Oh, yeah! #
221
00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:45,360
'When I first heard him play,
I thought,
222
00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:49,680
' "That's my Jeff Beck, he is
fantastic, this kid is great."
223
00:13:49,680 --> 00:13:52,520
'And so I sort of hoodwinked him
into working with me.'
224
00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:58,400
I forget how it goes, but, I mean,
that's basically...
225
00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:06,680
He is good at stealing.
226
00:14:06,680 --> 00:14:09,240
You've only got to look
at Ziggy, really.
227
00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:11,800
I mean, there is a lot
of Lou Reed in there,
228
00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:15,400
a lot of Iggy Pop in there,
you know. A lot of all sorts
229
00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:18,160
of influences that he has got
in there, you know,
230
00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:20,040
so he would steal little bits.
231
00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:22,080
# Oh, don't lean on me, man
232
00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:24,040
# Cos you can't afford the ticket
233
00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:26,720
# I'm back on Suffragette City
234
00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:29,280
# Oh, don't lean on me, man
235
00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:31,280
# Cos you can't afford to check it
236
00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:33,520
# I'm back on Suffragette City
237
00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:35,160
# Is out of sight. #
238
00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:41,120
'It just seemed like a perfectly
natural thing for me at the time,
239
00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:44,520
'to put together all these odds
and ends of art and culture
240
00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:46,560
'that I really adored.
241
00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:49,800
'It was just creating something
thoroughly artificial,
242
00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:53,320
'but something that worked in the
confines of rock and roll.'
243
00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:55,440
# There's only room for one
And here she comes
244
00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:56,600
# Here she comes... #
245
00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:03,200
I suppose the whole thing that made
Ziggy as popular
as it was-stroke-is,
246
00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:06,120
was that it was a good rock album.
247
00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:09,000
Nothing extraordinary,
in my opinion,
248
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,120
but a good rock album, and then
the image on top of it,
249
00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:15,960
which was really honed
to perfection by David,
250
00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:17,760
and people grabbed hold of it.
251
00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:23,320
What Ziggy Stardust does is
it projects him as a rock star.
252
00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:27,120
He sings about the imagined
experience of being a rock star,
253
00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:29,160
and in doing that,
becomes a rock star.
254
00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:31,520
And there is a story about his wife
Angie, in the front row,
255
00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:33,280
screaming at him as if
he was a rock star,
256
00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:35,400
despite the fact that two men
and a dog were there.
257
00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:41,040
What happens, then, really, is that
the world fulfils his fantasy.
258
00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:43,440
It aligns itself with
what he wants to be.
259
00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:46,200
Which is what I think psychologists
call "self-actualisation".
260
00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:47,760
Not many people can do it
but he did.
261
00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:51,960
# Suffragette! #
262
00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:54,600
I was sitting next to this guy
who was living it,
263
00:15:54,600 --> 00:16:01,680
he was already being it
on a daily basis,
264
00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:06,080
and it's funny, but he would eat
breakfast as a superstar.
265
00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:07,800
It was like, "This guy means it."
266
00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:14,600
# Ziggy played guitar
267
00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:18,960
# Jamming good with Weird and Gilly
268
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:20,560
# And the spiders from Mars
269
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:25,080
# He played it left-hand
270
00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:27,920
# But made it too far... #
271
00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:30,120
'I'd found my character.
272
00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:33,840
'One man against the world.
It really reverberated in my mind.
273
00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:37,840
'That's something that I really,
kind of, honed in on.'
274
00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:43,200
# ..Screwed up eyes
And screwed down hairdo
275
00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:45,280
# Like some cat from Japan
276
00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:48,920
# He could kill 'em by smiling... #
277
00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:52,640
'Ziggy was this kind of mythological
priest figure.
278
00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:55,720
'And I only say that in retrospect
because I didn't quite know
279
00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:59,040
'what he was then, but it does
occur to me now
280
00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:03,200
'that the androgyny of some of the
tribal priests throughout history
281
00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:05,280
'have been transvestite in nature.
282
00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,480
'I only know this because I read
Camille Paglia on the subject.'
283
00:17:11,360 --> 00:17:15,080
Ziggy Stardust is, to me, a kind of
colossus that marks
284
00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:18,360
a tremendous transition between
the 1960s and the 1970s.
285
00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:21,480
# So we bitched about his fans
286
00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:23,520
# And should we crush
his sweet hands? #
287
00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:31,840
The 1970s were a dark era, where
sexual promiscuity for its own sake
288
00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:37,920
was pursued in a way that had
never been so universal
289
00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:40,600
since the Roman Empire.
290
00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:45,680
Sex without consequence, anonymous
sex, pick-ups in dark clubs.
291
00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:51,840
So Ziggy Stardust, when he appeared,
was a kind of prefiguration,
292
00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:54,040
almost like the Book of Revelations,
293
00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:58,080
a hallucination of an apocalypse
about to occur.
294
00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:04,320
# Making love with his ego
295
00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:11,080
# Ziggy sucked up into his mind
296
00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:16,680
# Like a leper messiah
297
00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:21,520
# When the kids had killed the man
298
00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:24,720
# I had to break up the band. #
299
00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:31,480
What made Ziggy different, and Bowie
different, at that point,
300
00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:37,760
was that he turned himself into an
idol that people could worship.
301
00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:41,640
Nobody had actually, in pop music,
ever done that before.
302
00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:44,120
It was the province of Hollywood.
303
00:18:45,120 --> 00:18:50,440
# There's a starman
Waiting in the sky
304
00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:54,160
# He'd like to come and meet us
But he thinks he'd blow our minds
305
00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:58,960
# There's a starman
Waiting in the sky
306
00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:01,480
# He's told us not to blow it
307
00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:04,000
# Cos he knows it's all worthwhile
308
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,600
# He told me
Let the children lose it
309
00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:08,880
# Let the children use it
310
00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:10,680
# Let all the children boogie. #
311
00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:17,680
His management would distribute
posters of Bowie at concerts,
312
00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:20,600
so that the fans could pick them up
and go home
313
00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:26,600
and put them on the walls, and it
was that kind of attention
314
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,640
to detail in thinking about the
whole process of stardom
315
00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:32,600
that singled him out from people
that had gone before.
316
00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:41,040
I think David was calculating
in a lot of things that he did.
317
00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:43,320
He understood how
to manipulate his image,
318
00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:46,720
in that he didn't make
himself too available.
319
00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:50,400
He just gave them a little bit,
and they'd go,
320
00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:51,920
"Oh, we want more of David Bowie."
321
00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:53,520
You know, that sort of thing.
322
00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:55,160
And I used to always wonder about
that.
323
00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:57,280
I was like, "Why don't you
just give them it all?"
324
00:19:57,280 --> 00:19:59,880
And he was like, "No, I've just got
to give them that.
325
00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:02,880
"And then they'll come back for
more, and then just give them that."
326
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:03,920
And it worked.
327
00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:26,800
CROWD CHANT: Bowie! Bowie!
328
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:12,880
'At that particular time,
329
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:16,160
'I was chopping and changing
really quite drastically.
330
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,560
'The music that I was listening to
was definitely the soul music
331
00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:23,160
'that was really, really big
in the clubs in America
332
00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:24,360
'at that particular time.
333
00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:31,760
'So I kind of tried to do my own
version of that kind of music,
334
00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:33,960
'which was the basis of the
Young Americans album.
335
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:41,880
'I'd become soul man.'
336
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,520
When David really decided
he wanted to be a soul man,
337
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,440
he said to me, "So, how shall
we do it?
338
00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:51,960
"Where shall we go?"
339
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,480
And, you know, to get the people,
the singers, the band and all that.
340
00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:59,680
And I said we should go to New York.
To Harlem and go to the Apollo.
341
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:01,520
So he was like, "OK."
342
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:03,760
So we went backstage
and he met everyone.
343
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:07,840
I didn't know who David Bowie was,
344
00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,960
but I did know this was the
whitest man I've ever seen.
345
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:13,400
I'm not talking
about white like pink.
346
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:15,960
I'm talking about translucent white.
347
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:17,720
And then he had orange hair.
348
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:22,280
I'm not talking about
your momma's orange,
349
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:26,000
I'm talking about an orange, orange!
350
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,040
And he was about 98lbs.
I'm talking about thin, thin.
351
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:30,600
I mean, he was freaky.
352
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,640
At one point I told him -
and you'll have to excuse
my language -
353
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:35,680
"You look like shit, man.
You need some food.
354
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:37,280
"You need to come to my house."
355
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,080
Come forward. Yeah, that's great.
356
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:43,840
'Carlos had been able
to introduce me
357
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,120
'to a lot of fantastic
new musicians,
358
00:22:46,120 --> 00:22:48,680
'one of whom was Luther Vandross,
of course.'
359
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:54,800
So you have this amazing
collaboration between Bowie,
360
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,920
and soon-to-be one of the greatest
soul singers of all time,
361
00:22:57,920 --> 00:22:59,480
Luther Vandross,
362
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,520
along with all the other background
singers who would sing with Luther.
363
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,920
# Taking it all the right way
364
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:12,280
# Keeping it in the back
365
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,160
# Taking it all the right way
366
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,480
# Never no turning back
367
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:19,920
# Never need, no
Never no turning back
368
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,840
# Taking it all the right way
369
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,560
# Keeping it in the back
370
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,280
# Taking it all the right way
371
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,680
# Never no turning back
372
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,760
# Never need, no
Never no turning back. #
373
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:41,720
Right, from the Young Americans
album, was a difficult song
374
00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,200
but Luther put it all
together for him.
375
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:46,520
We had...
376
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:47,960
# Taking it all the right way
377
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:49,400
# Keeping it all in the back
378
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:51,280
# Taking it all the right way
379
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,800
# Never no turning back
Never need no... #
380
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,080
And then that section comes in.
381
00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:02,880
# Wishing, wishing, sometime
Doing it, up there, nobody
382
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,080
# Nobody doing it, getting up. #
383
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,640
That was so hard.
384
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:09,280
# Time
385
00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:10,640
# Doing it
386
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:11,680
# Giving it
387
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:12,880
# Keeping it back. #
388
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,320
Right. That's cool, that's cool.
389
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:19,440
David had, like, a puzzle.
390
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:21,080
Just the last line.
391
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:22,600
He brought this paper to us and
said,
392
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:24,480
"This is how I want you
to sing this."
393
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,080
Oh, sorry, I wasn't with you.
394
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,760
It wasn't a straight "just sing it
linearly and melodically".
395
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:34,440
Oh, I see, you count from... Yeah.
I thought you were doing an intro.
396
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:35,920
Right. One, two...
397
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:40,160
It was "I want it to jump in here,
and I want you to jump out there,
398
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:42,240
"and jump back in here."
399
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:43,800
# Keeping it back. #
400
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,560
Right, that's fine. OK, so we've got
that. That one's all right.
401
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:50,440
That, too, was the first time
I was singing anything like that.
402
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:52,160
In my life.
403
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:56,680
But it was brilliant, because
he knew exactly what he wanted.
404
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:58,560
Right, OK, and the last section.
405
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,360
# Gimme, gimme, yeah. #
406
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:06,920
Oh, Lord, it was too much!
407
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,760
It was like, "Man, I'll be glad
when we finish with this song."
408
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:16,720
# Wishing that sometimes
Sometimes
409
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:20,040
# Doing it, doing it right, till
Doing it
410
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,080
# One time One time. #
411
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,280
'There was no point in doing
a straightforward take
412
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:27,040
'on American soul music, because
that's been done already,
413
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:29,680
'so I just wanted to put
this spin on it.'
414
00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:35,240
'Eventually, of course,
when the album came out,
415
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,480
'it was very well-received,
416
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,120
'and Young Americans became
a very big album for me.
417
00:25:40,120 --> 00:25:42,840
'I mean, I really advanced myself.
418
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,040
'I was tumbling over myself
with ideas.'
419
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:50,800
People see you as a very
skilful performer,
420
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:54,080
who changes from time to time
from one thing to another.
421
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:58,120
Yeah. I glit from one thing
to another, a lot.
422
00:25:58,120 --> 00:25:59,400
"Glit"?
423
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,760
Mm-hmm. It's like "flit",
but it's the '70s version.
424
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:04,120
One letter later.
425
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,720
To be on Dick Cavett
meant you had arrived.
426
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,560
And what's fascinating about that
is he's not really playing
427
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,280
by the Dick Cavett rules,
if there are any,
428
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,320
in the sense that one watches
it and it's like,
429
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:19,640
"Do you want the whole of America to
think you're a complete nutcase?"
430
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,560
"Out of your mind on cocaine?"
And he clearly did.
431
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:24,720
And it was to the
benefit of his career.
432
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:26,680
It rendered him fascinating.
433
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:31,920
Is the offstage Bowie likely
to surprise people?
434
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:33,760
I've had the weirdest reactions
435
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:35,840
from people who know that
you're going to be on.
436
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,640
Some say they'd be scared
to sit and talk to you.
437
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,520
Some people said you'd bite my neck.
438
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:44,760
A very peculiar kind of thing.
439
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:48,160
It's what you want, really.
What do you think I'm like?
440
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:50,160
To me you seem like a -
441
00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,040
I hope this doesn't insult you -
a working actor.
442
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:56,240
That's right, that's very good.
443
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:58,040
I mean... What are you drawing?
444
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:02,760
It's therapeutic.
445
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,640
David, he was a character.
446
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:08,240
I knew he was, excuse my language,
I knew he was fucked up.
447
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,520
But you know, he was good,
he was cool, he got through it.
448
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,440
# Pulls her down behind the bridge
449
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,920
# He lays her down, she frowns
450
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,720
# Gee, my life's a funny thing
451
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,680
# Am I still too young?
452
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:28,560
# He takes her hand and there
453
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,840
# She takes his ring,
takes his babies
454
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,520
# Takes him minutes,
takes her nowhere
455
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:37,680
# Heaven knows,
she'd have taken anything
456
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,000
# All night
457
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,400
# All night,
she wants a young American
458
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:48,080
# Young American, young American
She wants a young American
459
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,040
# All right. #
460
00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:56,000
In terms of the Young American
stuff, it was a chance that he
grabbed
461
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,720
to be able to do something he
had wanted to do since he was 12.
462
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:05,920
He may have thought, "I won't have
a 40-something, 50-year-old career,"
463
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:09,560
and he may have thought, "I'm going
to get this in while I can."
464
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:20,600
Carlos had a riff that he'd had
in his head for some time
465
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:25,360
which I put to a standard called
Footstompin' by The Flares.
466
00:28:25,360 --> 00:28:27,200
# Everybody, young and old
467
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,360
# Learns how to rock and roll
468
00:28:29,360 --> 00:28:31,680
# Listen to something new
469
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,600
# Everybody sure can do it
470
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:36,560
# Footstompin', footstompin'. #
471
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,320
David always liked that little
line as I was playing it with...
472
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,880
PLAYS "FAME" RIFF
473
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,560
He liked that
but he hated the song later on.
474
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:47,240
So I'm called back into the studio.
475
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:48,760
After we finished Young Americans
476
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,080
he called me down
to Electric Lady Studio
477
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:57,200
and I get there and he had cut the
song up into a more blues format,
478
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,720
what we called the
one-four-five-four format.
479
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:04,360
And he had cut it up but the only
thing he had kept was...
480
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:10,160
PLAYS "FAME" RIFF
481
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:13,520
I heard that and I was like,
482
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:15,520
"OK, we're going to do something
with that,"
483
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,320
and I started laying down ideas
and laying down ideas.
484
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,160
I'm going to play the first thing
that we did and how we layered it
485
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:23,720
so you can hear what happens.
486
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:26,120
PLAYS "FAME" RIFF
487
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:36,720
First part, add a little bass.
488
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:48,800
Doesn't that sound like Fame?
489
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,240
David comes in, he goes,
"Oh, I hear this line."
490
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:07,080
What happened is that John Lennon
came to the session.
491
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:10,200
We sort of said, "Let's take that
riff and write something over it."
492
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:11,840
It was Carlos' riff.
493
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:16,920
Fame.
494
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:24,760
John was playing and he kept on
coming up with, "Ame! Ame!"
495
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:28,120
and I put an F in front of it
and that was it, really.
496
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:33,520
# Fame makes a man take things over
497
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:39,360
# Fame lets him loose,
hard to swallow
498
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:43,400
# Fame puts you there
Where things are hollow
499
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:47,280
# Fame
500
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,720
# Fame, not your brain,
it's just the flame
501
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:56,360
# That burns your change
to keep you insane, sane. #
502
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,840
David wasn't trying to be
a soul singer.
503
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:07,160
But as far as being taken seriously,
he wanted to be taken seriously
504
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,880
but he wasn't trying to be
a pretender.
505
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,400
MUSIC: "A Natural Woman"
by Aretha Franklin
506
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,080
# Looking out on the morning rain
507
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,480
# I used to feel so uninspired. #
508
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,880
It was surreal because
509
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:32,800
it was getting close to the point
where we were casting the movie.
510
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:36,800
I knew there was something I had to
get that was totally different.
511
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:44,080
And suddenly this programme
came on and by chance I saw it.
512
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,960
There's a fly floating around
in my milk.
513
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:51,400
He's a foreign body in it, you see,
and he's getting a lot of milk.
514
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:53,200
That's kind of how I feel.
515
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:59,040
# You make me feel
like a natural woman. #
516
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:03,600
He wasn't being over-careful or
worried about losing an image.
517
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:05,440
Maybe that was the image.
518
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:09,280
And almost from that moment,
519
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:13,600
I couldn't believe it because I
thought, "This is the man."
520
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:25,160
VOICEOVER: Nothing you have seen
or heard about David Bowie
521
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:29,200
will prepare you for the impact of
his first dramatic performance
522
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,520
in The Man Who Fell To Earth.
523
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,280
This is another
dimension of David Bowie.
524
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,320
One of the few true
originals of our time.
525
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:43,440
David calculated all of this.
526
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:48,160
I think he said, "Yeah, I'm Ziggy.
No, I'm not Ziggy. I'm soul man.
527
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,680
"Now I was a soul man,
now maybe an actor."
528
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:54,960
Yes, I think that he
calculated all of that.
529
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:59,080
VOICEOVER: The Man Who Fell To Earth
is a powerful love story.
530
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:03,040
A cosmic mystery.
A spectacular fantasy.
531
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:05,960
A shocking,
mind-stretching experience.
532
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:09,600
The film was the first thing
I'd been given
533
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,480
where I didn't have to play
a rock 'n' roll star for a start.
534
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:14,080
I wasn't required to sing.
535
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:18,680
I wanted it to be considered as a
serious sort of attempt at acting.
536
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,640
The early scenes where we're
together in the hotel room,
537
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:28,120
his skin just reflects the light
so beautifully.
538
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:31,360
He does look like he's
from another planet.
539
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:32,960
Oh, I'm just visiting.
540
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:35,680
Oh, a traveller?
541
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:39,240
'As to how close it was to him,
pretty close.
542
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:41,640
'You know there wasn't
a lot of changes to him.'
543
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:46,080
That was the colour of his hair.
They didn't change his hair.
544
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:47,880
He just said, "Be yourself!"
545
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:49,720
HE LAUGHS
546
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:53,120
I think Nick realised I had some
serious problems at the time
547
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:54,840
and just thought, "He's perfect.
548
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:57,280
"Just put him in,
just change his clothes,
549
00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:00,560
"just put him in as he is and let
him just walk through it,"
and I did.
550
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:06,520
All I could do as far
as his performances were concerned
551
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:11,480
was stop myself from trying
to influence him.
552
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:16,120
And some days my face ached through
not being able to use it.
553
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:19,080
Everything had to be
absolutely expressionless.
554
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:21,400
Three months of being totally
"the iceman cometh".
555
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:25,120
You don't know? How could you?
You're simple.
556
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:30,520
He might think he's being
expressionless, but he really isn't.
557
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:34,080
His body language,
everything is telling me something
558
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,320
when I'm working opposite him.
559
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:41,560
You won't find anyone else
like me, you know.
560
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,040
'The way he blinks his eyes,
the way he looks away,
561
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:47,080
'the way he moves his hand
tells me something.'
562
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:52,200
So he's wrong when he's saying
he's expressionless.
563
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:54,360
He's really not.
564
00:34:56,240 --> 00:35:00,840
The actual alien was more
that vulnerable part
565
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:04,240
when he wasn't Mr Newton.
566
00:35:04,240 --> 00:35:07,280
When Candy Clarke found him
taking the stuff out of his eye,
567
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,360
and she's freaked out and he was so
freaked out that she saw him
568
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:13,400
because he was trying to
hide it so well.
569
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:19,280
And it just seemed like something
about him in real life to me.
570
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,720
SHE SCREAMS
571
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:31,560
It had a certain truth in,
572
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:35,840
he made the mistake of
telling her his secret.
573
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:41,920
Of course, in that final sequence,
it can't be the same,
574
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:45,320
it'll never be
the same again, you know,
575
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:46,920
which was terribly sad.
576
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:53,760
You've just finished making the film
called The Man Who Came To Earth.
577
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:57,040
Fell To Earth.
Fell To Earth, I beg your pardon.
578
00:35:57,040 --> 00:36:00,080
It's not an easy film to explain
to people who haven't seen it.
579
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,440
It's very, very sad. Very romantic.
580
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:06,520
It brought a lump to my throat
watching it.
581
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,920
And it's been a gas working on it.
582
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:13,840
David, we're coming towards the end
of our all-too-brief conversation.
583
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:15,560
Oh, that's a shame.
584
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:20,200
I think what we might do
is end with a bit of music.
585
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:25,240
I gather that, at your end,
you have some music with you.
586
00:36:25,240 --> 00:36:27,920
The song is called
The Shape Of Things To Come.
587
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,160
No, it isn't.
No, of course it isn't.
588
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:32,560
We're having a preview of
The Shape Of Things to Come. Ah.
589
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:34,800
The song is called Golden Tears.
Years.
590
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,360
Mr David Bowie, we'll come back
to you after we've seen some.
591
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:40,000
You did get it wrong.
It's Years. Years.
592
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,080
Years. Why don't you introduce it
from that end?
593
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:48,000
This is David Bowie
singing Golden Years,
594
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,920
from his forthcoming album
Station To Station.
595
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:54,400
# Golden years
596
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:56,840
# Gold, whop, whop, whop
597
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:01,000
# Golden years
598
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:03,240
# Gold, whop, whop, whop
599
00:37:03,240 --> 00:37:07,560
# Don't let me hear you
say life's taking you nowhere
600
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:09,600
# Angel
601
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:12,000
# Come, get up my baby
602
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,200
# Look at that sky, life's begun
603
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:18,400
# Nights are warm
and the days are young
604
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:20,840
# Come, get up my baby
605
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,000
# There's my baby lost that's all
606
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,600
# Once I'm begging you
save her little soul
607
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:30,320
# Golden years, gold,
whop, whop, whop. #
608
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:32,760
It was kind of a very weird time
609
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:38,120
and it was LA and it was the '70s
and it was coke
610
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:42,040
and it was weird people hanging
around and people who didn't speak
611
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,480
and just whistled
and stuff like that.
612
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:47,640
"You know, man, heavy."
613
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:50,440
It was like being
on another planet, yeah.
614
00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:55,400
# Run for the shadows, run for the
shadows in these golden years. #
615
00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:01,200
I was probably
fairly psychically damaged.
616
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,120
Not probably.
I WAS psychically damaged.
617
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,400
I guess trying to get
what I was understanding
618
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,800
expressed in musical form.
619
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:13,520
Everybody was on drugs.
620
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:16,360
At that period of time,
we were all well out there.
621
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:18,640
But not so out there that we didn't
make a great record
622
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:20,640
so, I mean, you know.
623
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:22,480
Or maybe our view of being out there
624
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,000
and being people's views
of being out there
625
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:27,040
doesn't necessarily
correlate with the fact
626
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,680
that we were incapable
of making a record.
627
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:32,080
Whatever "out there" was,
"out there" worked.
628
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:36,080
I think the biggest
influence on that album was
629
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:40,000
the work of Kraftwerk,
and the new German sound.
630
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,000
I tried to apply some
of the randomness
631
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:45,880
and I utilised a lot of that feeling
for especially the title track,
632
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:48,320
Station To Station.
633
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:51,240
The feedback intro at the beginning
of Station To Station
634
00:38:51,240 --> 00:38:53,480
was an idea that David had.
635
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,080
So we had a few Marshall
stacks on the back wall
636
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:59,680
and we just did the feedback
together something like...
637
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,600
GUITAR PRODUCES FEEDBACK
638
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:08,360
Earl Slick was asked to do
something unnatural and that was,
639
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:11,360
"I want you to sustain a note
for, like, 15 years!"
640
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,360
Boom!
641
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:23,120
You are waiting for your part but
you can't. You've got to hold it.
642
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:25,320
Don't play, don't play,
just hold it.
643
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:27,400
Finally you get to play
one little thing.
644
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:33,400
Station To Station, I really can't
put a title on what it is he does.
645
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:36,960
I mean,
I can put a title on Young Americans
646
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:39,200
but everything after that
I don't have a title for it.
647
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:54,760
It was supposed to be deadly,
and just brutal.
648
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:59,800
Just this hard, hard, heavy,
dark, dark texture
649
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:03,080
that just laid down.
650
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:04,880
Just bog it down, bog it down.
651
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:11,160
# The return of the Thin White Duke
652
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:15,240
# Throwing darts in lovers' eyes
653
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:20,000
# Here am I
654
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,560
# One magical movement
655
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:27,560
# Such is the stuff from
where dreams are woven. #
656
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:29,680
Station To Station dealt
with a character called
657
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:32,840
the Thin White Duke, who was
a European living in America,
658
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,040
who wanted to get
back to Europe again.
659
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:38,320
# Bending sound
660
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:42,360
# Dredging the ocean
lost in my circle. #
661
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:45,240
Know what I think?
662
00:40:45,240 --> 00:40:49,920
I think a lot of really nasty shit
happened, business wise,
663
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:55,880
and with hangers on and all these
useless fucks that you accumulate.
664
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:59,920
# It's not the side effects
of the cocaine
665
00:40:59,920 --> 00:41:03,560
# I'm thinking that
it must be love
666
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:06,880
# It's too late to be grateful
667
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:10,360
# It's too late to be late again
668
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:14,400
# It's too late to be hateful
669
00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:16,960
# The European cannon is here. #
670
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,600
I started really getting
very, very worried for my life.
671
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,200
I just had to get myself
out of that situation.
672
00:41:24,720 --> 00:41:28,600
It wasn't surprising at all
that he wanted away from LA.
673
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:30,640
He hated LA towards the end.
674
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:34,600
LA at that point was
a very, very alien society.
675
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:37,040
It was kind of unreal
with unreal people.
676
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,800
I just did too much and I came close
several times to overdosing.
677
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,800
It was like being in a car where
the steering had gone out of control
678
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:49,880
and you were going towards
the edge of a cliff.
679
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:53,080
I'd almost resigned myself to the
fact that I'm going over the edge.
680
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:55,320
You know, I'm not going to be
able to stop.
681
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:58,600
I was tiring of the method
I was writing.
682
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:00,720
I wanted to develop a new language
683
00:43:00,720 --> 00:43:03,880
so I knew that my next move
was to have to do that.
684
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:07,400
I discarded for the time being
characters and environments.
685
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:10,280
I couldn't look at myself
properly at the time.
686
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:14,880
I needed some help and who better
to work with, I thought, than Eno.
687
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,960
And, of course, I found what
I consider a soul mate there.
688
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:23,360
He's a constantly changing person.
689
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:27,280
I knew he was sort of getting
tired with the way he'd been working.
690
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:32,000
I knew also he liked a particular
album that I had made very much.
691
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:37,560
It was Discrete Music, which is my
longest, slowest, quietest album.
692
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,960
The fact that he liked that
sort of alerted me to the idea that
693
00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:59,560
he was wanting to go somewhere else
in his own music.
694
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:03,760
We would get in the studio,
it was really wide open.
695
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:05,680
That's why I like doing
recordings with him
696
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:09,360
because it was, like,
real easy, you know.
697
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:11,800
Until Brian Eno came along.
698
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:13,840
That Brian Eno, he was a character!
699
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:16,760
The problem actually
I had at that time was that
700
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:20,160
I didn't really understand
how good musicians worked.
701
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:24,000
I'm not a musician
myself in that sense.
702
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:27,760
Brian Eno had a blackboard,
you know,
703
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:30,040
like elementary school, you know.
704
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:33,440
I'm like,
"You've got a blackboard. So?"
705
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:38,040
So we started coming up with these
ideas for different chords.
706
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:40,760
E, C, G, B, and so he'd go,
707
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:45,760
"I'm going to point to that chord
and you play that chord
708
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:47,760
"and then I'll point to another."
709
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:49,360
So I'm playing and it goes D.
710
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:57,080
When you're working
with really great players,
711
00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:01,240
like Carlos and Dennis, you have to
accept that they have a way of
712
00:45:01,240 --> 00:45:05,280
processing information
that is beyond intellectual.
713
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:09,640
"Dude, man. Hey, Brian, look.
What are you... This is...
714
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:11,560
"This isn't working for me, man."
715
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:18,240
But with their incredibly
natural musicianship,
716
00:45:18,240 --> 00:45:21,600
the two together produce
something that, again,
717
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:23,760
one wouldn't have had
with either on their own.
718
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:27,240
I mean, some of it worked,
some of it didn't,
719
00:45:27,240 --> 00:45:30,080
but quite honestly it did take me
out of my comfort zone
720
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:33,880
and it did make me leave my
frustration at what I was doing
721
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:36,560
and totally look at it from another
different point of view
722
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:38,840
and, although I didn't like
the point of view,
723
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:40,840
when I came back, I was fresh.
724
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:54,920
I think Eno opened up
new doors of perception.
725
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:57,400
In terms of the use of the studio,
726
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:01,120
I'd never used a studio in quite
the way that Brian was using it.
727
00:46:03,720 --> 00:46:07,280
I received a phone call
from David and Brian Eno
728
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:10,000
and they said,
"What can you bring to the table?"
729
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:13,240
I said, "I've got this new thing
called a harmoniser."
730
00:46:13,240 --> 00:46:15,800
And they said,
"What does this thing do?"
731
00:46:15,800 --> 00:46:17,760
And I thought, and I said,
732
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:22,440
"It fucks with the fabric of time.
This is science fiction."
733
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:25,520
And I could hear the two of them
whooping on the other end.
734
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:28,200
They just went, like, "Whoa! Woo!"
735
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:30,520
Something like that, you know.
736
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:31,800
It was very exciting
737
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:34,640
because it enabled you to change
the pitch of things.
738
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:37,800
So what we did with Dennis'
snare drum was
739
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:40,440
we fed it through the harmoniser,
740
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:43,720
dropped its pitch
and then fed that back through again.
741
00:46:43,720 --> 00:46:46,240
so it goes... but faster.
742
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:52,480
Even though, musically,
743
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:56,640
it has absolutely nothing
to do with the blues,
744
00:46:56,640 --> 00:47:00,120
Low is, in a weird way,
Bowie's blues album.
745
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:02,040
His marriage was breaking up.
746
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:06,760
He was having serious business
hassles with ex-managers.
747
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:11,960
And, like a blues man, he was
attempting to deal with those
748
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:16,280
troubles by, as part of the process,
singing about them.
749
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:18,320
It was evident that he was
having problems
750
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:21,040
and he wanted to come into the
studio to get away from everything
751
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:24,040
but you kind of bring everything
with you and so Breaking Glass
752
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:26,040
had that kind of feeling
so we started it,
753
00:47:26,040 --> 00:47:29,880
and he really wanted, like,
angry, very, very punky.
754
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:31,240
David came up with...
755
00:47:31,240 --> 00:47:33,000
# Baby
756
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:35,680
# I've been
757
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:38,240
# Breaking glass in your... #
758
00:47:38,240 --> 00:47:39,640
And I was trying to figure out,
759
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:42,680
he probably did that shit
yesterday in somebody's room.
760
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:48,120
You know, cos David writes
this stuff about life shit.
761
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:57,760
And it had that kind of...
762
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:01,160
# I've been breaking glass
in my room again. #
763
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:06,040
Then Dennis and George kicked
in with theirs so it was just...
764
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:08,080
# Baby
765
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:09,840
# I've been
766
00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:14,240
# Breaking glass in your room again
767
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:17,280
# Listen. #
768
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:20,760
It just needed a positive decision
to only do what I want to do
769
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:22,640
and not do things
for the sake of what,
770
00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:26,000
either David Bowie or whoever
I was playing last time,
771
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:28,560
Thin White Duke or something,
was expected to do.
772
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:34,360
# I drew something awful on it. #
773
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:38,280
What I think excites both of us
774
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:42,440
is the idea of going
where nobody's been before
775
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:46,760
and trying to find out
what you could do there, you know.
776
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:48,560
David, I think, was really interested
777
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:51,880
in new moods and landscapes
and textures
778
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:53,600
that you could get with electronics
779
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:57,840
and he didn't feel a compulsion
to turn everything into a song.
780
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:10,440
I cannot think of anybody comparable
781
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:12,960
in terms of being
sort of that famous.
782
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:15,680
Dylan, The Stones, The Beatles.
783
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:18,640
Elvis. People of that stature.
784
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:20,800
Can you imagine
even any of those people
785
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:24,720
making a record which
was half instrumental
786
00:49:24,720 --> 00:49:27,840
at the supposed peak
of their career?
787
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:29,200
It was never going to happen.
788
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:32,200
# Milejo
789
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:38,360
# Sula vie
790
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:41,720
# Milejo, ejo. #
791
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:47,480
On Warszawa he was using
sort of non-language
792
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:50,720
so they still weren't songs
in the conventional sense.
793
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:02,840
Is there a danger that,
by following your instinct,
794
00:50:02,840 --> 00:50:05,400
that you will jeopardise
the money and the good life?
795
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:08,360
No shit, Sherlock!
796
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:13,200
Yes, I think I've rather hit that
one on the head at the moment.
797
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:17,720
And it's quite a relief, really.
798
00:50:17,720 --> 00:50:21,440
I feel a lot more...free.
799
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:28,400
Some critics who wrote about it,
800
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:34,120
god, they really need...they really
need to get a proper job sometimes.
801
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:38,160
They kind of moan about it.
"Oh, what are you doing?"
802
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:44,000
'I don't give a shit about how
clever it may or may not be.
803
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:48,480
'It stinks of artfully counterfeited
spiritual defeat and futility
804
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:51,480
'and emptiness.
We're low enough already, David.
805
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:55,720
'Give us a high or else just swap
tapes with Eno by post
806
00:50:55,720 --> 00:50:59,400
'and leave those of us who'd rather
search for solutions than lie
807
00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:04,680
'down and be counted to try and find
ourselves instead of lose ourselves.
808
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:07,480
'You're a wonderful person
but you've got problems.'
809
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:10,880
Yeah, that's what I wrote.
810
00:51:12,560 --> 00:51:17,080
The music to me sounds really
a little a bit alienated
811
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:20,080
so I'm very surprised...
Alienated from what?
812
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:23,600
From...from...from...
OK, from my world.
813
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:25,640
From your world? Uh-huh, OK.
814
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:27,280
Can you understand it?
815
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:30,960
Yes, I can because
it's new language.
816
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:48,080
I went naked in Berlin.
817
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:51,040
I really did try
and strip down my life
818
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:54,480
to what I believed to be
absolute basic essentials
819
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:56,800
so I could build up again.
820
00:51:56,800 --> 00:51:58,920
I virtually gave a lot of
possessions away,
821
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:02,320
and my wardrobe really was just
jeans and checked shirts
822
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:06,880
and that's how I walked about and
I had a bicycle and that was it.
823
00:52:06,880 --> 00:52:10,360
I think it was the first freedom
I'd had from all those
824
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:12,720
so-called trappings of celebrity.
825
00:52:20,240 --> 00:52:22,640
He was kind of recuperating.
826
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:25,600
He soaked up all this very
fascinating European music
827
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:27,320
and carried on making albums.
828
00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:30,720
It's better than sitting
in the Priory for two years.
829
00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:46,960
David and I were talking. We
had a number of pieces in progress
830
00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:53,800
and David said, "What shall we do
next? How should we work on them?"
831
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:57,560
I said, "Well, why don't we call
Fripp and see what he would offer?"
832
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:01,520
The voice came on and said,
833
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:04,800
"It's Brian, hello! I'm here
with David. We're in Berlin.
834
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:10,520
"Hang on, I'll pass you over," so
Eno passed the phone over to David
835
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:13,320
and David said,
"Hello, we're here in...
836
00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:17,320
"Do you think you can play some
hairy rock'n'roll guitar?"
837
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:20,040
What is hairy rock'n'roll?
838
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:21,640
It has danger.
839
00:53:21,640 --> 00:53:25,360
What is the difference between pop
840
00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:27,040
and rock'n'roll?
841
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:34,120
You might get fucked.
842
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:35,880
Can you put that in
843
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:39,680
or should I express it
in alternative terminology?
844
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:45,000
It was a collaboration,
a highly successful collaboration,
845
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:49,120
the new one, and with the addition
of Fripp as middle man,
846
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:51,640
I think that helped
an awful lot as well.
847
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:57,520
And Eno said, "Well, why don't you
plug in?" So I plugged in.
848
00:53:57,520 --> 00:53:59,840
They hit the play button.
849
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:05,640
And then on bar three you'll hear...
850
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:07,600
with skysaw guitars,
851
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:09,680
and that's straight into
Beauty And The Beast
852
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:13,160
and what you hear on the record,
the first track of Heroes,
853
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:16,640
is the first note I played
on the session, first take,
854
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:18,400
going all the way through.
855
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:21,800
# Down the highway, sing the song
856
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:24,680
# That's my kind of highway
gone wrong
857
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:30,880
# My my
858
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:32,840
# Smile at least
859
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:35,840
# You can't say never
to the beauty and the beast. #
860
00:54:37,240 --> 00:54:41,200
Anyone who's playing
Beauty And The Beast,
861
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:43,760
you know they get erections.
862
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:47,600
# There's something in the night,
something in the day
863
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:51,280
# Nothing is wrong
but darling someone's in the way
864
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:55,120
# There's slaughter in the air,
protest on the wind
865
00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:57,040
# Someone deep inside of me
866
00:54:57,040 --> 00:55:00,480
# Someone could get skinned, how? #
867
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:06,280
Most of Heroes takes you back to
that very poetic, somewhat obtuse,
868
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:09,360
often gloriously indecipherable
way of doing things
869
00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:11,280
which you'd heard
in Station To Station.
870
00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:14,840
It's great but I don't really know
what he's talking about
871
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:18,280
and so the sort of mystery
kind of returns.
872
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:27,600
But, at the same time, the title
song of Heroes is an exception to
873
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:31,400
that idea that he's sort of become
very obtuse again.
874
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:35,640
MUSIC: "Heroes" by David Bowie
875
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:40,080
I always knew that was going to be
a great song
876
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:43,520
from the very first moment
those guys started playing it.
877
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:46,080
You thought, "OK, yes,
this is a good one."
878
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:49,720
And then I think the really crucial
moment in it came
879
00:55:49,720 --> 00:55:51,320
actually with Fripp.
880
00:55:57,680 --> 00:55:59,040
# I
881
00:56:00,720 --> 00:56:02,720
# I wish you could swim. #
882
00:56:02,720 --> 00:56:06,760
Fripp's plaintive guitar cry
really triggered off something
883
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:10,360
emotive in me, and it was a song
of triumph, and it was like,
884
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:12,600
"I've been a real idiot
some of my life
885
00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:16,040
"and put myself in ridiculously
dangerous situations
886
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:18,360
"and I seem to have been
getting through it."
887
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:21,200
And that became part
and parcel of that song.
888
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:23,800
You can overcome
some incredible odds.
889
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:26,360
# We can beat them
890
00:56:26,360 --> 00:56:28,840
# Forever and ever
891
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:33,320
# Oh, we can be heroes
892
00:56:34,720 --> 00:56:37,200
# Just for one day. #
893
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:42,240
Fripp did three takes on it
and we used all three.
894
00:56:42,240 --> 00:56:45,480
This is Tony Visconti's genius
that he can do that
895
00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:47,240
without it sounding a mess.
896
00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:55,000
David sat down in the control room
897
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:58,720
and he said, "Could you just
take a walk?"
898
00:56:58,720 --> 00:57:02,800
He goes, "I'm writing
and I just want to be to myself
899
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:04,840
"and I want to finish these lyrics."
900
00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:09,440
So I was having a little flirtation,
shall we say,
901
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:11,880
with the singer Antonia Maass.
902
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:15,200
She was the female
vocalist on the album.
903
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:20,720
We walked outside the studio where,
from the control room,
904
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:25,040
you could see the Berlin Wall
and you could see a lot of rubble
905
00:57:25,040 --> 00:57:27,960
and you could see
the guards and the gun turrets.
906
00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:33,000
And right beneath the window
we had a little snog.
907
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:37,360
And David saw that and he said,
"That's the second verse!"
908
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:42,440
# And we kissed
909
00:57:43,680 --> 00:57:46,000
# As though nothing could fall. #
910
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:48,680
The thing that was most
exciting about it all is that
911
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:51,880
I found that without drugs
I was still writing very well,
912
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:55,480
you know, and that was probably the
most rejuvenating aspect of it all,
913
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:58,320
is that you don't need to get stoned
out of your gourd to write well,
914
00:57:58,320 --> 00:57:59,880
you know? I think that was,
915
00:57:59,880 --> 00:58:02,760
you know, an incredibly
important period for me.
916
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:04,960
Not very fast, are you?
917
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:07,800
I can't say it was like night
and day that suddenly
918
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:09,480
was this different person.
919
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:11,280
It wasn't.
It took quite a long time.
920
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:14,760
But I think, you know, I did see
light at the end of the tunnel,
921
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:16,560
and it wasn't a train.
922
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:22,640
When I met Bowie again
around the time of Heroes
923
00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:26,760
I was struck by the fact that
his hair was its natural colour,
924
00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:28,200
he wasn't wearing any make up,
925
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:30,840
he was wearing a shirt
so un-rockstar-y
926
00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:34,640
it virtually qualified
as suburban casual wear.
927
00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:39,000
It was almost like saying,
"OK, this is the real me."
928
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:42,640
Though, of course, one did suspect
929
00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:46,640
is this affable natural Dave
930
00:58:46,640 --> 00:58:48,760
simply the latest mask?
931
00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:53,000
And is there something
still lurking beneath
932
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:56,360
this apparently lifelike surface?
933
00:58:56,360 --> 00:58:58,120
Can I ask you one last thing? Mm.
934
00:58:58,120 --> 00:59:00,160
People I've talked to
who worked with you say
935
00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:02,480
you're a very personal person,
if you know what I mean?
936
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:05,920
People who go out with me?
No, to WORK with you!
937
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:07,840
I thought you said people
who go out with me!
938
00:59:07,840 --> 00:59:11,680
You're a very, erm... Not secretive,
but personal.
939
00:59:11,680 --> 00:59:14,960
Keep things to yourself.
Quite...quite quiet, yes.
940
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:16,440
Do you think you're shy?
941
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:18,920
No.
942
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:21,480
No, I'm not really shy.
I'm just a bit quiet.
943
00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:23,600
Do you think if you didn't
keep things to yourself
944
00:59:23,600 --> 00:59:26,560
people wouldn't be surprised
at what you did next?
945
00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:29,560
I've never really
thought about that.
946
00:59:29,560 --> 00:59:31,560
I'll let you know after the show.
OK, thanks.
947
00:59:31,560 --> 00:59:34,040
Off to do a show. Come with me?
948
00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:40,120
AUDIENCE CHEERS
949
00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:44,840
MUSIC: "Heroes" by David Bowie
950
00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:01,280
# I
951
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:05,480
# I will be king
952
01:00:08,040 --> 01:00:10,320
# And you
953
01:00:11,720 --> 01:00:14,240
# You will be my queen
954
01:00:17,240 --> 01:00:20,640
# Though nothing
955
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:23,560
# Can keep us together
956
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:28,240
# We can beat them
957
01:00:29,680 --> 01:00:32,120
# Forever and ever. #
958
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:34,920
I guess you merit being seen
as the ultimate artist of your era
959
01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:36,440
if you do two things.
960
01:00:36,440 --> 01:00:40,440
First of all, if you change what
you do at a mind-boggling rate.
961
01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:44,040
If you're not only prodigious,
but the diversity of the work you
962
01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:47,320
come up with is incredible,
and Bowie does that in the '70s.
963
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:49,040
And then the other thing is
964
01:00:49,040 --> 01:00:51,480
whether you act as a lightning
rod for your time.
965
01:00:52,600 --> 01:00:54,560
# And the shame
966
01:00:55,880 --> 01:00:58,520
# Fell on the other side
967
01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:03,120
# Oh, we can beat them
968
01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:06,920
# Forever and ever
969
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:11,240
# We could be heroes
970
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:15,120
# Just for one day. #
971
01:01:33,400 --> 01:01:37,280
David, looking back over
the '70s, into the '80s,
972
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:40,000
how do you look at music in the '70s?
973
01:01:41,280 --> 01:01:43,160
Sort of like this.
974
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:47,480
# Ground Control to Major Tom
975
01:01:51,640 --> 01:01:54,480
# Ground Control to Major Tom
976
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:03,240
# Take your protein pills
and put your helmet on
977
01:02:05,920 --> 01:02:08,920
# Ground Control to Major Tom
978
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:16,520
# Commencing countdown, engines on
979
01:02:20,320 --> 01:02:25,000
# Check ignition
and may God's love be with you. #
980
01:02:26,680 --> 01:02:29,480
The Kenny Everett Video Show
was sort of cheerleader in England
981
01:02:29,480 --> 01:02:31,800
for what we might call
the video generation,
982
01:02:31,800 --> 01:02:34,960
what we might call the music video
generation, which, at that time,
983
01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:40,120
was so totally new to the Brits and
indeed unheard of to the Americans,
984
01:02:40,120 --> 01:02:42,480
that I think he
immediately clocked it.
985
01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:44,640
And the Space Oddity video
986
01:02:44,640 --> 01:02:47,920
was really something that we cobbled
together quite quickly.
987
01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:50,920
# You've really made the grade
988
01:02:52,560 --> 01:02:58,360
# And the papers want to know
whose shirts you wear. #
989
01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:01,400
I think Major Tom is the first time
I'd been able to create
990
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:04,520
a character that was very credible.
991
01:03:04,520 --> 01:03:07,120
I think, for any writer,
that's a high point.
992
01:03:07,120 --> 01:03:08,640
He preceded all the others
993
01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:11,400
and I suppose one has
a special place for him.
994
01:03:11,400 --> 01:03:13,440
# ..to Ground Control
995
01:03:13,440 --> 01:03:16,600
# I'm stepping through the door. #
996
01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:22,240
It is very interesting that,
at the end of the '70s,
997
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:25,440
he goes back to
his first key character.
998
01:03:25,440 --> 01:03:27,640
Major Tom returns, in the sense of
999
01:03:27,640 --> 01:03:29,840
an updated performance
of Space Oddity.
1000
01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:34,280
But then he takes
the character of Major Tom,
1001
01:03:34,280 --> 01:03:37,960
puts it in a new song and does
very interesting things with it.
1002
01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:41,080
So Major Tom becomes a much more
discomforting, sinister figure.
1003
01:03:42,560 --> 01:03:46,640
# Do you remember a guy
that's been
1004
01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:50,160
# In such an early song
1005
01:03:50,160 --> 01:03:54,400
# I heard a rumour
from Ground Control
1006
01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:58,240
# Oh, no, don't say it's true
1007
01:03:58,240 --> 01:04:01,160
# Got a message from the action man
1008
01:04:01,160 --> 01:04:07,080
# I'm happy, hope you're happy too. #
1009
01:04:07,080 --> 01:04:10,280
Major Tom became a little,
sort of, bouncy hero.
1010
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:13,280
I just wanted to sort of bring him
up-to-date a little bit
1011
01:04:13,280 --> 01:04:16,600
and put him in a Victorian
nursery rhyme kind of atmosphere.
1012
01:04:16,600 --> 01:04:20,560
Even though it's not Victorian,
it has that queasiness of those,
1013
01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:22,080
# Ring a ring of roses
1014
01:04:22,080 --> 01:04:25,160
# This is about the plague and we're
all going to drop down dead #
1015
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:29,000
kind of thing about it,
which is what I did with the piece.
1016
01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:34,720
# I'm happy, hope you're happy too
1017
01:04:34,720 --> 01:04:37,720
# I've loved and I've needed love
1018
01:04:37,720 --> 01:04:40,400
# Sordid details following. #
1019
01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:43,720
David rang me. "Could we make
a video for this new single?"
1020
01:04:43,720 --> 01:04:47,280
We sat round a table and he said,
"I want to be a clown on the beach."
1021
01:04:47,280 --> 01:04:50,840
I said, "Whoopee, I've just done
something on a beach and by accident
1022
01:04:50,840 --> 01:04:53,520
"I found this great effect
of making the sky black
1023
01:04:53,520 --> 01:04:54,800
"and everybody have a halo."
1024
01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:57,520
Then he wanted a digger.
1025
01:04:57,520 --> 01:05:02,240
# But I'm hoping to kick
but the planet is glowing
1026
01:05:04,680 --> 01:05:08,880
# Ashes to ashes, funk to funky
1027
01:05:08,880 --> 01:05:12,640
# We know Major Tom's a junkie. #
1028
01:05:12,640 --> 01:05:17,960
David allows me lots and lots of
freedom to do very much what I want,
1029
01:05:17,960 --> 01:05:21,480
the ways I want it edited.
I storyboard it for him,
1030
01:05:21,480 --> 01:05:23,560
show him exactly
what frames I want done.
1031
01:05:34,240 --> 01:05:36,760
And then he puts
his input in as well.
1032
01:05:36,760 --> 01:05:38,440
And, especially on Ashes to Ashes,
1033
01:05:38,440 --> 01:05:40,760
the combination has been
very successful.
1034
01:05:42,440 --> 01:05:45,080
The people round the bonfire
on the beach in Ashes to Ashes
1035
01:05:45,080 --> 01:05:47,960
were people from Blitz,
which is a London club,
1036
01:05:47,960 --> 01:05:51,520
which was the precursor of the
Modern Romantic movement.
1037
01:05:51,520 --> 01:05:54,640
David managed to clock
the whole Modern Romantic movement
1038
01:05:54,640 --> 01:05:56,840
way before anybody else.
1039
01:05:59,920 --> 01:06:03,920
It showed him co-opting
a new phase of youth culture,
1040
01:06:03,920 --> 01:06:08,880
which he'd been the key figure
in inspiring in the first place.
1041
01:06:08,880 --> 01:06:12,480
So some might say
he was imitating his imitators.
1042
01:06:12,480 --> 01:06:17,880
Others were saying he was buying
them off and getting them onboard.
1043
01:06:20,160 --> 01:06:22,880
It's certainly one of the better
songs I've ever written
1044
01:06:22,880 --> 01:06:27,640
in terms of familiarity
and a song that really hooks in.
1045
01:06:27,640 --> 01:06:31,480
I felt very positive
about the future and I got down
1046
01:06:31,480 --> 01:06:34,880
to writing a really comprehensive
and well-crafted album.
1047
01:06:37,840 --> 01:06:41,280
David came into the studio
with a lot of ideas
1048
01:06:41,280 --> 01:06:46,760
and I remember he had his demos on
a new contraption called a Walkman.
1049
01:06:46,760 --> 01:06:50,120
Carlos Alomar flipped
when he saw it and heard it.
1050
01:06:50,120 --> 01:06:53,040
Fashion for the
Scary Monsters album,
1051
01:06:53,040 --> 01:06:57,720
David had this need to maybe even
reproduce a bit of the Fame feeling
1052
01:06:57,720 --> 01:07:01,480
so we wanted to keep everything up
so it would give him
1053
01:07:01,480 --> 01:07:05,520
a secure commercially viable
album that he could work with.
1054
01:07:05,520 --> 01:07:09,600
So Fashion started just
with this very funky beat.
1055
01:07:09,600 --> 01:07:12,000
PLAYS RIFF
1056
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:13,560
Then it grew it into a monster.
1057
01:07:13,560 --> 01:07:15,960
People started
over-dubbing stuff on it.
1058
01:07:15,960 --> 01:07:19,720
Fripp started over dubbing
this crazy guitar to it.
1059
01:07:24,560 --> 01:07:28,120
It was just
evolving into a fantastic track.
1060
01:07:30,560 --> 01:07:33,680
I don't believe you'll find another
guitarist who would have
1061
01:07:33,680 --> 01:07:35,680
played that to that.
1062
01:07:37,000 --> 01:07:38,520
It's very out.
1063
01:07:38,520 --> 01:07:42,880
From a point of view of making
a contribution to the work
1064
01:07:42,880 --> 01:07:48,080
of an artist with their producer,
the opportunity to do that
1065
01:07:48,080 --> 01:07:51,000
and be supported
and encouraged in it...
1066
01:07:53,440 --> 01:07:56,280
..it's out, it's out.
1067
01:07:58,280 --> 01:08:02,840
# There's a brand-new dance
but I don't know its name
1068
01:08:07,680 --> 01:08:11,920
# That people from bad homes
do again and again. #
1069
01:08:11,920 --> 01:08:15,000
It was kind of a little wary
of the Lemming-like quality
1070
01:08:15,000 --> 01:08:16,960
that people were slaves to fashion.
1071
01:08:16,960 --> 01:08:20,920
# It's big and it's bland,
full of tension and fear. #
1072
01:08:22,360 --> 01:08:26,320
It was dictatorial authority that
the thing seems to grasp people.
1073
01:08:26,320 --> 01:08:30,680
It was a lightweight, throw-away
song, as important as fashion.
1074
01:08:34,600 --> 01:08:36,880
# Fashion, turn to the left
1075
01:08:36,880 --> 01:08:39,280
# Fashion, turn to the right
1076
01:08:39,280 --> 01:08:42,400
# Oooh, fashion!
1077
01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:48,080
# We are the goon squad and we're
coming to town, beep-beep. #
1078
01:08:48,080 --> 01:08:52,280
'We are the goon squad and we're
coming to town, beep-beep.'
1079
01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:57,120
Now, ain't that a line
which sticks in the mind?
1080
01:09:01,440 --> 01:09:03,600
# Listen to me,
don't listen to me
1081
01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:05,680
# Talk to me, don't talk to me
1082
01:09:05,680 --> 01:09:08,080
# Dance with me, don't dance with me
1083
01:09:08,080 --> 01:09:10,400
# No, beep-beep. #
1084
01:09:15,520 --> 01:09:17,080
And now Bowie in New York.
1085
01:09:17,080 --> 01:09:20,080
The play in which rock star David
Bowie has scored a remarkable triumph
1086
01:09:20,080 --> 01:09:22,000
on Broadway is called
The Elephant Man.
1087
01:09:22,000 --> 01:09:24,320
Bowie's first appearance
as a straight actor met with
1088
01:09:24,320 --> 01:09:26,800
almost universal praise
from the New York critics
1089
01:09:26,800 --> 01:09:28,880
and there are long
lines at the box office.
1090
01:09:28,880 --> 01:09:31,920
The baths have rid you
of your odour, have they not?
1091
01:09:31,920 --> 01:09:36,680
First chance I've had
to bathe regular...ly.
1092
01:09:37,920 --> 01:09:41,600
'I went to see it on Broadway and
I was totally knocked out by it.'
1093
01:09:41,600 --> 01:09:44,720
And then Jack Hofsiss,
the director, came to see me
1094
01:09:44,720 --> 01:09:47,840
a couple of months later whilst
I was back in New York yet again
1095
01:09:47,840 --> 01:09:51,160
doing the Scary Monsters album,
and asked me if I would consider
1096
01:09:51,160 --> 01:09:53,480
taking over the role
at the end of the year.
1097
01:09:53,480 --> 01:09:56,280
And I was flabbergasted cos I had
never been asked to do anything
1098
01:09:56,280 --> 01:09:58,480
that sort of supposedly legit.
1099
01:09:58,480 --> 01:10:01,800
This is your promised land,
is it not?
1100
01:10:01,800 --> 01:10:05,480
A roof, food, care, protection?
1101
01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:09,200
Right, Mr Treves.
1102
01:10:09,200 --> 01:10:14,880
'I noticed that, as David created
the voice for the character,
1103
01:10:14,880 --> 01:10:18,600
'there was a quality there
that was very unique.'
1104
01:10:18,600 --> 01:10:23,560
I thought that was the core of
the uniqueness of his performance.
1105
01:10:23,560 --> 01:10:25,960
You call it home.
1106
01:10:27,400 --> 01:10:29,360
Never had a home before.
1107
01:10:29,360 --> 01:10:31,200
Well, you have one now.
1108
01:10:31,200 --> 01:10:33,080
Say it, John, home!
1109
01:10:33,080 --> 01:10:37,840
Home? No, no, I mean REALLY say it.
"I have a home.
1110
01:10:37,840 --> 01:10:41,040
"This is my..." Come on.
1111
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:43,480
I have a home.
1112
01:10:43,480 --> 01:10:45,520
This is...
1113
01:10:45,520 --> 01:10:47,160
my home.
1114
01:10:47,160 --> 01:10:49,680
'There was no make-up at all.'
1115
01:10:49,680 --> 01:10:53,320
This... is my home?
1116
01:10:53,320 --> 01:10:57,640
And that demanded that the audience,
1117
01:10:57,640 --> 01:10:59,880
in conjunction with the actor,
1118
01:10:59,880 --> 01:11:04,280
imagined what this guy
really looked like
1119
01:11:04,280 --> 01:11:06,760
and the way he moved.
1120
01:11:08,400 --> 01:11:11,200
I think the toughest part was just
working with my own body
1121
01:11:11,200 --> 01:11:14,080
and trying to create this really
distorted ugly figure
1122
01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:15,560
without using make up.
1123
01:11:18,400 --> 01:11:20,320
It came very naturally to me.
1124
01:11:20,320 --> 01:11:22,880
I presume that it was something
to do with the mime training
1125
01:11:22,880 --> 01:11:25,040
that I had earlier.
1126
01:11:26,200 --> 01:11:28,480
I have to say that you can tell
1127
01:11:28,480 --> 01:11:32,760
when there's a real actor coming
back at you when you rehearse.
1128
01:11:34,040 --> 01:11:37,240
And in his case it was
a real actor there
1129
01:11:37,240 --> 01:11:39,640
and that's the highest praise
I can give him.
1130
01:11:39,640 --> 01:11:44,120
I am reading Romeo and Juliet.
1131
01:11:44,120 --> 01:11:47,040
Ah, Juliet! What a love story.
1132
01:11:47,040 --> 01:11:49,240
I adore love stories.
1133
01:11:49,240 --> 01:11:52,840
I like love stories best, too.
1134
01:11:52,840 --> 01:11:56,600
If I had been Romeo, guess what?
1135
01:11:59,440 --> 01:12:01,640
What?
1136
01:12:01,640 --> 01:12:05,400
I would not have held
the mirror to her breath.
1137
01:12:05,400 --> 01:12:06,920
What?
1138
01:12:12,040 --> 01:12:17,160
'I hope that he really knew
how good he was in the part.'
1139
01:12:19,240 --> 01:12:24,200
And it was a wonderful performance
1140
01:12:24,200 --> 01:12:27,600
that remained wonderful
throughout his entire run.
1141
01:12:28,960 --> 01:12:32,560
If I had been Romeo,
1142
01:12:32,560 --> 01:12:34,880
we would have got away.
1143
01:13:00,680 --> 01:13:05,200
I think I wanted to re-evaluate
what I wanted to do, musically.
1144
01:13:05,200 --> 01:13:08,320
I did a hell of a lot in a short
period and I needed to get
1145
01:13:08,320 --> 01:13:12,440
some space away from writing music
because it was becoming,
1146
01:13:12,440 --> 01:13:16,360
possibly, too much of an exercise
and the enthusiasm had gone.
1147
01:13:16,360 --> 01:13:19,120
But now it seems to be back again.
1148
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:37,160
'EMI are celebrating.
1149
01:13:37,160 --> 01:13:40,640
'Against serious opposition
and for very serious money,
1150
01:13:40,640 --> 01:13:43,560
'they've just signed
a real superstar.'
1151
01:13:43,560 --> 01:13:46,520
Ladies and gentleman,
Mr David Bowie.
1152
01:13:46,520 --> 01:13:48,320
APPLAUSE
1153
01:13:48,320 --> 01:13:52,000
'EMI don't give lavish
receptions like this very often.
1154
01:13:52,000 --> 01:13:54,800
'They won't say how much
they paid for Bowie but rumours
1155
01:13:54,800 --> 01:13:59,400
'range from £10 million to £17
million for a five-year contract.'
1156
01:14:04,720 --> 01:14:08,120
Reportedly so, yes.
I'm overwhelmed that I've...
1157
01:14:08,120 --> 01:14:10,240
Is that anywhere near accurate?
1158
01:14:10,240 --> 01:14:12,480
It's absolutely
nowhere near accurate.
1159
01:14:12,480 --> 01:14:16,040
Can you give us a more accurate
figure? Of course not.
1160
01:14:16,040 --> 01:14:18,840
Thank you very much and good
afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.
1161
01:14:19,960 --> 01:14:23,440
Bowie's attitude to himself
and his music seems to have changed
1162
01:14:23,440 --> 01:14:25,480
and with that comes
a change of producer,
1163
01:14:25,480 --> 01:14:27,120
so out goes Tony Visconti,
1164
01:14:27,120 --> 01:14:30,160
who one associates with
the art for art's sake period.
1165
01:14:30,160 --> 01:14:32,400
And in comes Nile Rodgers.
1166
01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:36,720
He's just had that huge run of hits
with Chic and Sister Sledge.
1167
01:14:36,720 --> 01:14:39,240
He's gone on to produce Diana Ross.
1168
01:14:39,240 --> 01:14:42,040
But it just doesn't seem like what
one would have expected from
1169
01:14:42,040 --> 01:14:44,520
the David Bowie of the '70s
and the first part of the '80s.
1170
01:14:44,520 --> 01:14:46,600
Seems somewhat uncharacteristic.
1171
01:14:51,280 --> 01:14:54,840
When we met originally,
it was completely by chance,
1172
01:14:54,840 --> 01:14:58,800
and he was sitting alone,
back of this nightclub,
1173
01:14:58,800 --> 01:15:00,480
and I spotted him right away.
1174
01:15:00,480 --> 01:15:05,200
I walked in with Billy Idol
and Billy walked in and went,
1175
01:15:05,200 --> 01:15:07,960
"Bloody hell, that's David Bowie!"
1176
01:15:07,960 --> 01:15:09,760
And when he said "Bowie,"
1177
01:15:09,760 --> 01:15:13,720
cos he called him BOW-ie,
we called him BOH-ie,
1178
01:15:13,720 --> 01:15:16,280
he vomited, he barfed.
1179
01:15:16,280 --> 01:15:20,160
It was, like, hysterical. By that
time, I was already chatting him up.
1180
01:15:22,640 --> 01:15:28,640
Later, David said to me that he
wanted me to do what I did best.
1181
01:15:28,640 --> 01:15:31,320
So when I asked David
what he thought I did best,
1182
01:15:31,320 --> 01:15:34,360
he looked at me and says,
"You make hits."
1183
01:15:37,000 --> 01:15:40,680
I was charged with the
responsibility of doing such.
1184
01:15:40,680 --> 01:15:44,440
So, one morning in Switzerland,
1185
01:15:44,440 --> 01:15:47,680
he walks into my bedroom.
1186
01:15:47,680 --> 01:15:50,120
He says something to the effect of,
1187
01:15:50,120 --> 01:15:54,560
"Nile, darling, I think I have
a song that feels like it's a hit".
1188
01:15:56,640 --> 01:15:59,360
He comes in with
this 12-string guitar
1189
01:15:59,360 --> 01:16:01,160
that only has six strings on it.
1190
01:16:05,640 --> 01:16:08,480
When you see a 12-string guitar,
you're in folk city right away.
1191
01:16:08,480 --> 01:16:10,560
Something like that.
1192
01:16:10,560 --> 01:16:13,280
So when I started
fooling around with it,
1193
01:16:13,280 --> 01:16:15,640
I made it very jazzy, very cool,
1194
01:16:15,640 --> 01:16:19,240
but Bowie is a jazzy cool guy,
unbeknownst to most people,
1195
01:16:19,240 --> 01:16:21,200
but I certainly knew that.
1196
01:16:21,200 --> 01:16:23,440
So...
1197
01:16:23,440 --> 01:16:25,600
It was cool.
1198
01:16:25,600 --> 01:16:28,200
It was ultra-cool.
1199
01:16:28,200 --> 01:16:30,000
It was pretty normal cool.
1200
01:16:31,360 --> 01:16:34,480
But you put in the delays and all of
a sudden you get groove and funk
1201
01:16:34,480 --> 01:16:36,520
and rhythm all at the same time.
1202
01:16:52,560 --> 01:16:55,480
# Let's dance. #
1203
01:16:55,480 --> 01:16:58,440
It has an intention
of being danceable but I think,
1204
01:16:58,440 --> 01:17:01,720
in terms of lyric, I've tried to
keep it simple as anything
1205
01:17:01,720 --> 01:17:03,360
that I've ever written before.
1206
01:17:03,360 --> 01:17:07,120
I'm trying to write in
a more obvious and positive manner
1207
01:17:07,120 --> 01:17:09,680
than I've written in a long time.
1208
01:17:09,680 --> 01:17:12,280
# Let's dance
1209
01:17:12,280 --> 01:17:16,040
# Put on your red shoes
and dance the blues
1210
01:17:17,840 --> 01:17:20,040
# Let's dance
1211
01:17:20,040 --> 01:17:24,480
# To the song they're
playing on the radio
1212
01:17:26,480 --> 01:17:28,800
# Let's sway. #
1213
01:17:28,800 --> 01:17:30,520
Let's Dance is an interesting song.
1214
01:17:30,520 --> 01:17:33,960
because it's basically a funk
groove, an old funk...
1215
01:17:37,720 --> 01:17:41,240
# Sway through the crowd
to an empty space. #
1216
01:17:41,240 --> 01:17:44,160
And Nile just knew how to
put that into place
1217
01:17:44,160 --> 01:17:45,920
and then put the hook line behind it
1218
01:17:45,920 --> 01:17:48,520
and in the shortest amount of time,
you had the song.
1219
01:17:50,480 --> 01:17:54,320
Let's Dance is not a traditional,
what I would call, dance record,
1220
01:17:54,320 --> 01:17:58,400
but it's certainly a record
that does make you want to dance.
1221
01:17:58,400 --> 01:18:00,200
I just thought to myself,
1222
01:18:00,200 --> 01:18:03,760
"Man, if I don't make a record
that makes people want to dance,
1223
01:18:03,760 --> 01:18:08,880
"and we call the song Let's Dance,
I'm going to have to trade in
1224
01:18:08,880 --> 01:18:12,520
"my black union card,
cos that just doesn't make sense."
1225
01:18:12,520 --> 01:18:17,520
# Tremble like a flower. #
1226
01:18:18,800 --> 01:18:22,240
This is something that can be
played in every mall in America.
1227
01:18:22,240 --> 01:18:26,720
It's a mainstream record by an artist
who already has a pedigree.
1228
01:18:26,720 --> 01:18:29,760
Mick Jagger tried to do his own
Let's Dance a couple of times.
1229
01:18:29,760 --> 01:18:31,120
Never worked.
1230
01:18:32,840 --> 01:18:34,040
McCartney dabbled.
1231
01:18:34,040 --> 01:18:37,440
A lot of those guys dabbled
cos that was what was going on.
1232
01:18:37,440 --> 01:18:39,880
None of them made
a record as good as what Bowie made.
1233
01:18:42,040 --> 01:18:44,360
# Under the moonlight
1234
01:18:45,920 --> 01:18:48,320
# The serious moonlight. #
1235
01:18:50,280 --> 01:18:53,240
I've tried to produce
something that's warmer
1236
01:18:53,240 --> 01:18:57,640
and more humanistic than anything
that I've done for a long time.
1237
01:18:57,640 --> 01:19:02,520
Less emphasis on the nihilistic
kind of statement
1238
01:19:02,520 --> 01:19:07,360
and the icy...one-dimensional
kind of thing
1239
01:19:07,360 --> 01:19:09,880
that I've been working with
over the last few years.
1240
01:19:11,680 --> 01:19:15,560
So we had cut Let's Dance and at
the end of the day he gives me
1241
01:19:15,560 --> 01:19:20,400
a copy of China Girl
and says that he thinks it's a hit.
1242
01:19:22,760 --> 01:19:25,120
So I wanted it to have a hook.
1243
01:19:25,120 --> 01:19:28,880
I thought, "Man, maybe
I'll key off the word China."
1244
01:19:30,160 --> 01:19:34,200
PLAYS 'CHINA GIRL' RIFF
1245
01:19:39,000 --> 01:19:41,200
And I said to myself,
1246
01:19:41,200 --> 01:19:44,560
either David is going to hate this
so much that he'll fire me
1247
01:19:44,560 --> 01:19:50,320
or he'll get the comedic value of
writing a silly little poppy thing.
1248
01:19:50,320 --> 01:19:53,280
But I have to admit,
I was nervous as hell
1249
01:19:53,280 --> 01:19:55,640
and I played it for him
1250
01:19:55,640 --> 01:19:58,720
and David went, "I love it."
1251
01:20:01,640 --> 01:20:05,360
# Uh, oh, oh, oh, oh
1252
01:20:05,360 --> 01:20:08,160
# Little China girl
1253
01:20:08,160 --> 01:20:12,320
# Uh, oh, oh, oh, oh
1254
01:20:12,320 --> 01:20:13,960
# Little China girl
1255
01:20:13,960 --> 01:20:17,360
# I could escape this feeling
1256
01:20:17,360 --> 01:20:19,640
# With my China girl
1257
01:20:21,120 --> 01:20:26,040
# I feel a wreck
without my little China girl
1258
01:20:28,040 --> 01:20:31,440
# I hear her heart beating
1259
01:20:31,440 --> 01:20:34,880
# Loud as thunder
1260
01:20:34,880 --> 01:20:38,240
# Saw the stars crashing. #
1261
01:20:39,720 --> 01:20:43,400
This is the '80s.
It's MTV explosion time.
1262
01:20:43,400 --> 01:20:48,000
He had been a video experimenter
1263
01:20:48,000 --> 01:20:52,840
but this record put him right there
in the middle of MTV-isation
1264
01:20:52,840 --> 01:20:55,640
and gave his career
a whole other life.
1265
01:20:55,640 --> 01:21:00,000
# You know, I'll give you television
1266
01:21:00,000 --> 01:21:04,040
# I'll give you eyes of blue
1267
01:21:04,040 --> 01:21:08,040
# I'll give you men who want
to rule the world
1268
01:21:11,040 --> 01:21:14,560
# And when I get excited
1269
01:21:14,560 --> 01:21:17,360
# My little China girl. #
1270
01:21:17,360 --> 01:21:21,040
David went from being, let's say,
a high profile cult star,
1271
01:21:21,040 --> 01:21:22,600
to mainstream.
1272
01:21:22,600 --> 01:21:26,200
The look was more mainstream, even
though he had bleachy blond hair
1273
01:21:26,200 --> 01:21:27,640
and all the suits and everything.
1274
01:21:27,640 --> 01:21:29,680
It was a lot different than
1275
01:21:29,680 --> 01:21:33,840
that Thin White Duke
ominous character, or Ziggy.
1276
01:21:33,840 --> 01:21:36,400
It was the most mainstream
I'd ever seen him.
1277
01:21:38,760 --> 01:21:42,280
Out of the clear blue sky,
he was taking boxing lessons
1278
01:21:42,280 --> 01:21:45,800
and, like, he was beefy,
he was cleaner.
1279
01:21:45,800 --> 01:21:49,880
Don't take any notice of them.
They're all perfectly harmless.
1280
01:21:49,880 --> 01:21:52,480
'He was happier and jovial.'
1281
01:21:52,480 --> 01:21:55,760
On your new album, you're
determined to be yourself.
1282
01:21:55,760 --> 01:21:59,640
How do we know this isn't
another one of your masks?
1283
01:21:59,640 --> 01:22:03,080
I don't know. It's a bit
like the boy who cried wolf.
1284
01:22:03,080 --> 01:22:06,320
He was, "Hey!"
1285
01:22:06,320 --> 01:22:09,200
you, know. I found it a little odd,
1286
01:22:09,200 --> 01:22:13,120
in that it was a very happy David.
1287
01:22:13,120 --> 01:22:16,360
Do you see the music going
back to basics from here on?
1288
01:22:19,880 --> 01:22:23,200
Tonight, I think
it might be very basic.
1289
01:22:23,200 --> 01:22:26,680
ANNOUNCER: Ladies and gentleman,
1290
01:22:26,680 --> 01:22:31,360
the 1983 Serious Moonlight Tour!
1291
01:22:31,360 --> 01:22:33,760
David Bowie!
1292
01:22:33,760 --> 01:22:36,080
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
1293
01:22:36,080 --> 01:22:39,920
MUSIC: "Let's Dance" by David Bowie
1294
01:22:53,000 --> 01:22:55,480
# Let's dance
1295
01:22:55,480 --> 01:22:59,560
# Put on your red shoes
and dance the blues
1296
01:23:01,040 --> 01:23:02,840
# Let's dance
1297
01:23:02,840 --> 01:23:07,200
# To the song they're
playing on the radio. #
1298
01:23:07,200 --> 01:23:10,400
I think we're out of characters now
and just into suits
1299
01:23:10,400 --> 01:23:13,200
and the suit will change
from tour to tour,
1300
01:23:13,200 --> 01:23:16,440
but the bloke inside it
is generally much the same.
1301
01:23:18,800 --> 01:23:22,680
# Sway through the crowd
to an empty space. #
1302
01:23:31,160 --> 01:23:35,320
Let's Dance hit so strongly
that everything changed.
1303
01:23:35,320 --> 01:23:38,160
We thought we were going to do
a couple of indoor theatres,
1304
01:23:38,160 --> 01:23:39,840
indoor arenas through Europe.
1305
01:23:39,840 --> 01:23:44,000
It just quickly turned around,
which was a surprise.
1306
01:23:44,000 --> 01:23:47,080
And you're just riding
this big old train going,
1307
01:23:47,080 --> 01:23:49,280
"All right, everybody,
hang on, here we go."
1308
01:23:49,280 --> 01:23:53,480
# Fame makes a man take things over
1309
01:23:55,000 --> 01:23:58,520
# Fame keeps him loose
and hard to swallow
1310
01:24:00,000 --> 01:24:03,360
# Fame puts him there,
things are hollow
1311
01:24:04,520 --> 01:24:06,000
# Fame. #
1312
01:24:06,000 --> 01:24:10,520
It was beyond belief to me. Suddenly
I wasn't a cult artist any more.
1313
01:24:10,520 --> 01:24:12,280
It really was a shocker
1314
01:24:12,280 --> 01:24:15,520
and we were scurrying around because
we'd already started a tour
1315
01:24:15,520 --> 01:24:18,760
and suddenly, like, we were doing
stadiums out of nowhere.
1316
01:24:18,760 --> 01:24:22,240
Gigs were being thrown out
and stadiums were being put in.
1317
01:24:22,240 --> 01:24:25,120
It was all by the shirt tails,
the whole thing.
1318
01:24:25,120 --> 01:24:29,000
Then suddenly, "Wow, I've just had
the biggest album I've ever..."
1319
01:24:29,000 --> 01:24:31,800
It was extremely odd.
1320
01:24:31,800 --> 01:24:35,360
# Is it any wonder,
I reject you first?
1321
01:24:37,120 --> 01:24:39,720
# Fame, fame, fame, fame
1322
01:24:42,040 --> 01:24:45,560
# Is it any wonder,
you are too cool to fool. #
1323
01:24:47,520 --> 01:24:52,400
The Serious Moonlight Tour was him
capturing the planet as a whole.
1324
01:24:52,400 --> 01:24:55,000
# Bully for you, chilly for me
1325
01:24:55,000 --> 01:24:58,400
# Got to get a rain check on pain. #
1326
01:24:58,400 --> 01:25:01,720
It was major at that
point in time, in '83.
1327
01:25:01,720 --> 01:25:05,760
Everyone in China, in Korea,
and everywhere else in the world
1328
01:25:05,760 --> 01:25:07,080
knew who David Bowie was
1329
01:25:07,080 --> 01:25:11,720
because of that Serious Moonlight
Tour, and it's a peak level.
1330
01:25:13,520 --> 01:25:17,960
# Fame, fame, fame, fame, fame, fame,
fame, fame, fame, fame, fame... #
1331
01:25:29,600 --> 01:25:32,080
There's some moment
when the audience comes to you
1332
01:25:32,080 --> 01:25:34,120
as opposed to you going to them.
1333
01:25:34,120 --> 01:25:39,120
He made a record that was
an experimental record for him
1334
01:25:39,120 --> 01:25:42,840
that actually worked on a pop level
1335
01:25:42,840 --> 01:25:45,520
and that happens a lot for people.
1336
01:25:46,800 --> 01:25:52,000
Every artist, their core group
resents the fact that the outsiders
1337
01:25:52,000 --> 01:25:55,480
are in on our secret, but that's
the danger of a good record.
1338
01:25:55,480 --> 01:25:58,360
You never know who's
going to listen to it.
1339
01:25:58,360 --> 01:26:00,520
# Fame, fame. #
1340
01:26:00,520 --> 01:26:03,480
I allowed myself to be pushed
into the commercial arena
1341
01:26:03,480 --> 01:26:07,080
because I'd never been there and it
was sort of, "Ooh, what's it like?"
1342
01:26:07,080 --> 01:26:12,840
But there it was and I jumped
in with my future in my hands.
1343
01:26:12,840 --> 01:26:18,000
# Fame, fame, fame, fame, fame... #
1344
01:26:18,000 --> 01:26:20,440
# What's your name? #
1345
01:26:22,040 --> 01:26:26,240
CHEERING AND APPLAUSE
1346
01:26:41,440 --> 01:26:44,440
People have this idea that he sort of
drifted off into the stratosphere
1347
01:26:44,440 --> 01:26:47,160
and, you know, rumour and gossip
starts, and all of that.
1348
01:26:51,640 --> 01:26:55,120
In a sense, he's regained
1349
01:26:55,120 --> 01:26:57,640
the mystery and distance
1350
01:26:57,640 --> 01:27:01,360
which was so powerful a part
1351
01:27:01,360 --> 01:27:07,000
of what made him so
exceptional in the 1970s.
1352
01:27:07,000 --> 01:27:12,360
Suddenly, we don't know
who David Bowie is once again.
1353
01:27:16,320 --> 01:27:20,720
Even the current rather
cat-and-mouse game that Bowie
1354
01:27:20,720 --> 01:27:24,000
has been playing from his seclusion
1355
01:27:24,000 --> 01:27:27,280
is reminiscent of Warhol,
the master of games,
1356
01:27:27,280 --> 01:27:29,440
pretending to be marginal,
1357
01:27:29,440 --> 01:27:32,920
when, in fact, he is the great
puppet master controlling it all.
1358
01:27:35,800 --> 01:27:38,800
But then he comes back with this
record, The Next Day,
1359
01:27:38,800 --> 01:27:41,080
and he doesn't do interviews.
1360
01:27:41,080 --> 01:27:44,000
We're back to the showbiz adage
of leave them wanting more.
1361
01:27:44,000 --> 01:27:46,360
Very David Bowie thing to do.
1362
01:27:48,760 --> 01:27:50,960
Happy hump day, Phil.
1363
01:27:50,960 --> 01:27:52,640
I didn't get humped. You? Yeah.
1364
01:27:55,280 --> 01:27:57,440
Some people, huh,
they just get lost.
1365
01:27:57,440 --> 01:28:01,280
Well, it's more exciting than
anything we've got around here.
1366
01:28:01,280 --> 01:28:03,880
I wouldn't say that.
1367
01:28:03,880 --> 01:28:06,640
We have a nice life.
1368
01:28:06,640 --> 01:28:08,480
We have a nice life.
1369
01:28:22,040 --> 01:28:24,960
# Pushing through the market square
1370
01:28:27,640 --> 01:28:30,120
# So many mothers sighing
1371
01:28:33,760 --> 01:28:36,440
# News had just come over
1372
01:28:38,080 --> 01:28:41,120
# We had five years left to cry in
1373
01:28:44,880 --> 01:28:47,720
# News guy wept when he told us
1374
01:28:50,160 --> 01:28:53,160
# Earth was really dying
1375
01:28:57,120 --> 01:29:00,080
# Cried so much that his face was wet
1376
01:29:02,560 --> 01:29:04,640
# Knew he wasn't lying. #
1377
01:29:04,640 --> 01:29:06,760
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