All language subtitles for The.Lesson.is.Murder.S01E02.720p.WEB.h264-ETHEL

There was no romance and
affection in our marriage.

Farah Fratta
was found shot to death

at her home in Atascocita.

Police appear to be
focusing their investigation

on the victim´s
estranged husband...

Robert Fratta.

I can show you how I´m
innocent of capital murder.

It´s all in black and white.

I guess he thought he
was beautiful, too,

because he was always starin´
at himself in the mirror.

You know, he is narcissistic,
he´s manipulative.

He cares about the way he looks.

Bob couldn´t control himself
and would start asking

for things, and they´re like,
you know, this dude´s a freak.

All right, guys, so, obviously,

we´ve been working
this case for quite...

I´m Bryanna Fox... I´m a
psychological criminologist

and a former FBI special agent.

I study violent
offenders to evaluate

the personality traits
and patterns of behavior

and develop
psychological profiles

to help law enforcement
catch dangerous criminals.

As a former FBI special agent,

I learned techniques to
interrogate and analyze

some of the nation´s most
violent serial offenders.

Now, I´m a professor at the
University of South Florida,

where I´m training the next
generation of criminologists.

Together with a team of
my top graduate students,

we are reinvestigating violent
crimes in order to learn

how to probe the mind
of a convicted murderer.

All I want to do was

appease myself
through the venting.

To understand why
did this killer kill?

And then all of a
sudden, boom, she´s dead.

She had gone
to the hairdresser.

Her across-the-street
neighbors were sitting

in their living room.

They saw her garage door
open. The light came on.

They saw the car
pull into the garage.

And they heard the gunshots.

His wife got on the phone
and started calling 911.

And they saw someone come out
of the bushes by Fratta´s fence,

and he was picked up
by a small silver car

with a headlight burned out.

From the case files, we
know Farah Fratta was killed

in a murder-for-hire plot.

For over two years,
Farah and her husband,

Bob Fratta, a police
officer and firefighter,

were engaged in a
bitter custody dispute.

In news footage shortly
after Farah´s death,

we see Fratta smiling
for the cameras

immediately after being
questioned by investigators.

Well, if I got shot, I´m sure
Farah´d be the suspect for that.

Fratta went to
the gym all the time.

He was a big, big gym rat.

That´s how he met
Joseph Prystash.

And he talked to Prystash about
wanting to have his wife killed.

And Prystash was like, "Well,
maybe I can find someone."

Prystash was the one who
found Guidry the shooter.

So it was really arranged
through the middle man

who was Prystash.

Prystash was promised Fratta´s
Jeep in return for the killing.

Guidry was promised
$1,000 in cash.

Fratta´s alibi was that he
would have his children.

He took them to their
catechism class at the church.

Prystash was going to drive
Guidry to Farah Fratta´s house.

And Guidry was going
to wait for Farah

to come home and
commit the shooting.

Prystash would drive
back to the neighborhood

and pick Guidry up.

The phone records show that
there were continual phone calls

made between
Prystash and Fratta.

The last phone call
was to let Fratta know

it´s done, she´s dead.

Fratta takes the children
back to the home,

knowing that the
mother has been killed.

Both Joseph Prystash
and Howard Guidry confessed

and were convicted
of capital murder.

Guidry later claimed that
his confession was coerced,

but he was still convicted
on additional evidence.

Both Prystash and Guidry
are currently on death row

awaiting execution.

Bob Fratta was arrested

and charged with
solicitation of murder.

After two trials, Robert Fratta
was convicted of capital murder

and sentenced to death.

He´s currently awaiting
execution on death row

in Livingston, Texas.

This is exactly the kind of case

I like to investigate
with my students.

At first glance, Robert Fratta
doesn´t seem to have a lot

in common with the psychopaths
we learn about in our textbooks.

When we think of psychopaths,

we often think about
this Hannibal Lecter

who commits serial murder.

But actually that is

one of the most rare
types of psychopaths.

They are all different
types of professions

that we otherwise
would never suspect

that they could be a psychopath.

But just their interactions
with other people

are what really give it away.

When you first look
at Robert Fratta,

he comes across as
an upstanding citizen

who was a public servant,
who had lots of friends,

certainly not a person who
would have his wife killed.

But I want my students
to dig deeper,

to examine if Robert Fratta fits
the profile of a psychopath.

It will be a great
lesson for my students

if we can answer
two key questions.

Why did Robert
Fratta kill his wife?

And is Robert
Fratta a psychopath?

All right. This is
murder for hire case,

which is definitely
interesting because it presents

a lot more complexity,
more opportunity to say,

well, I wasn´t involved, or
even trying to understand,

you know, why would somebody
do a murder for hire?

Is that a one-off,
or is this indicative

of some patterns of
behavior that are red flags?

I think identifying
these character traits

of offenders like Fratta,

that´s going to help us
identify these red flags

if there are other
offenders like this.

We can pinpoint
those and maybe help

before there are future victims.

We have a few major
goals of this case.

The first one is he´s
maintained his innocence.

We just found out he
received an execution date.

Every time somebody is innocent
and wrongfully convicted,

it´s important to
investigate their claims.

But if this man´s on death row

and he´s going to die for
something he didn´t do,

it´s exceptionally important
that we look into this.

And that´s why I wanted
to work this case so much.

I think we really have
to take those claims

seriously to see if
there´s a there there.

If you´re claiming
you´re innocent, why?

Then who did it?
How did they do it?

If all the evidence leads
to you, what evidence is it

that leads to somebody else?

Fratta, he has a blog that
he has been posting on,

which has a lot of
his personal claims,

as well as all of
the legal filings.

Fratta maintains his
innocence based on the fact

that he did not pull the trigger

and was not even present
during the murder.

However, he was convicted of

hiring a hitman to
kill his wife...

And that is a capital
offense in Texas.

We know statistically that
people who are innocent

always do maintain
their innocence.

Tricky part is psychopaths

also tend to maintain
their innocence.

Right.

I think the second
big picture issue

is if we find that there´s
not a lot of traction

underlying his innocence claims,

why did he do this?

As a criminologist,
we´re looking for

patterns and personality traits.

We start by reviewing
video of Bob Fratta

immediately after being
questioned by police.

So take a look at
this, guys, and tell me

what you think from this.

Now remember, he had just been
interrogated for 12 hours.

Last night when you
showed up at the scene,

they said that you showed
no emotion, no sorrow.

I first got there because,
the constable approached me

and that´s when he informed me
that she was shot

and from that point
on, it´s a blur.

They said you showed
no emotion, no sorrow,

even though the mother
of your children

was just shot and killed.

I don´t know, you know.

Is that normal behavior
that you would expect

for somebody who
just lost his wife?

I mean, I know there´s
no correct way to grieve,

but it doesn´t seem like this
is upsetting him in any way.

Yeah, just the way he was
acting in front of the camera,

like, very, like,
worried about his vanity.

That? Um...

Rather than his dead wife.

You know? I think
it´s telling.

I think in some
situations, maybe a portion

of that would present
as a coping mechanism.

I don´t know about
that, because, I mean,

if you´ve just been accused
of murdering someone

or having some involvement
for about 12 hours,

you´re not going to come
out happy and smiling.

Are you going to come out
pissed and quite concerned?

Do you see this smile?
He keeps almost smiling

and smirking as he´s
looking at the cameras.

- Pause it.
- Right there,

when I see that smile,

one thing I think of
as duper´s delight.

In this case, you didn´t just
get one by somebody else.

You got it by law enforcement.

And let´s not forget that
he was sort of one of them.

He was a public safety officer,

and I think he thought he
was getting it past them.

We´re starting to piece
together a profile of Bob:

in the news footage,
he appears vain

and lacking any emotion.

But I want my own interview
to observe him firsthand.

I actually was able to get an
interview with Robert Fratta

on death row in Texas.

It´s one hour.

I got one shot at him.
It´s a lot to cover.

And we obviously need to
do as much prep before

we can get there and
make sure we know exactly

what we want to get out of him,

and we have as much
information as possible.

Any time we want to
develop a profile,

the first thing we want to
understand is what happened,

what was this crime.

And what´d be somebody´s
motivation to doing this?

So we take a look
at the crime scene

and try to understand, you
know, what happened, when, why.

All right, guys. So
we´re not actually

at the house where
Farah was murdered,

but we do have this great garage
that we´re going to walk through

and kind of make sure we
know exactly what happened

and see if we can
uncover anything else.

From my time in the Navy,

I learned to synthesize
a lot of information,

figuring out which puzzle pieces

you need to kind of
pay attention to,

and which ones are
maybe not so necessary.

So at 7:55 at night, we know
that Guidry is ready to go.

At 8:00 p.m., Farah comes
home, backs her car in,

she gets out of the car.

And once she is out of the car,
Guidry comes out of hiding,

shoots her twice in
the head... Like this.

And she drops.

Xavier, if you could
mark that for me.

We know that the
officer arrives on scene

to find Farah´s body here.

He also sees a bullet hole.

So this vest is going
to mark the bullet hole.

So we know that Guidry
came from this side,

shoots Farah twice in the head.

And yet we have a bullet
hole that happens here.

How can we reconcile that?

So either he was extremely quick

and got around, or he could
have already been in this corner

and she just didn´t see him.

He may have been standing
in that corner already.

And I´m just wondering,
would the natural inclination

be he comes into the door

and he immediately goes to
that back corner of the garage?

That seems unusual,
unless he already knows

she´s backing her car in

because otherwise
she´d be on that side.

Right? The only way
that this information

could have been
gleaned by Guidry

is by getting it
from an insider,

somebody who knew
her patterns of life,

knew her behavior,
knew this garage.

And we also see that
from the phone records, right?

We know that, at 7:55,
Guidry calls Prystash

and says she´s
still not here yet.

And they said, wait,
she will be there.

And she was. So there is
there´s clear planning here.

There´s premeditation. There
was a schedule of events

and the events unfold
the way that they did.

And that also kind of speaks
to his lack of empathy

because, you know,

the death of his wife and
the mother of his children

is obviously something
super traumatic.

Generally, my interests
lie in victimization.

Looking at the victim can
tell you a lot about the case,

even if it´s not the
most obvious details.

The fact that you´re okay
bringing your children

back to the crime
scene like that

kind of shows that
he had no empathy

for anyone besides himself.

Not only did he not
have empathy for, you know,

the mother of his children,
but he was using his children

almost as pawns to
protect himself.

We know a murder for
hire is absolutely heinous,

but it´s one thing to
plan a murder for hire

in a public place, but to
have that happen in your home,

where you´ve raised your kids,

where you´ve slept
with your wife

and you´ve made breakfast
and done Christmas.

This crime scene exercise
shows it´s likely the shooter

knew details about Farah´s
habits that Bob Fratta

would also know.

His claim that he is innocent

because he did not pull
the trigger seems weak.

It doesn´t rule him out in
masterminding the crime.

But as much as we are
learning about Bob Fratta,

we need to learn
more about Farah.

I send Jacquie and Nate
to meet with Paul Dinas,

who edited a book about
Farah and her story.

Paul, can you tell us a
little bit more about the book

and how it relates to Farah?

Farah is the focus of
the book as the victim.

Farah was an attractive,
beautiful young woman

who was looking to stabilize
her life with a relationship.

And for whatever reason,

that didn´t go as
she had planned.

Where did Bob and Farah meet?

Bob and I met at the airport.

They were both ticket agents
for American Airlines.

Bob was this charming,
handsome senior agent,

and she and he were very
attracted to each other.

One thing led to another,
and they became a couple.

So, did Farah´s coworkers
ever warn her about Bob?

Yes. That was an interesting
point of the story,

because the other women
in the group there,

some of whom had dated Bob,
said to her, watch out for him.

They mentioned he probably
wasn´t that trustworthy.

Can you tell us when
they got married

and what kind of wedding
ceremony they had?

Bob actually asked her father
for her hand in marriage,

which is a very
traditional thing to do,

and he was very
impressed with that.

It was a Catholic ceremony,
was a small ceremony,

a happy event, they
both look beautiful.

And for that first year,
they were very happy together

and the family was very happy
with them both together.

Can you tell us about the
photos that are in the book?

The first one is a
picture of Farah.

She was 33.

One picture is of Bob and
Farah at their wedding day.

She had a beautiful dress.
He had a beautiful tuxedo.

Was smiling. It
made it so much

more compelling once
you know the story,

to see how they started out
at this beautiful couple...

Idyllic by any level.

Here´s the first one.

Yeah. Wow.

They look really
happy. They do.

Well, this is like the
start of the relationship

where it was good, right?

You know, he´s a young,
good looking man here.

Yeah. Who is happy
to be married

to this beautiful woman.

And we, like, fast forward
to where we are now.

And I mean, nobody
would have imagined.

Based on their experience,

a lot of police officers

will interact with somebody

and know there´s
something not good.

I meet with the
homicide detective

who knew Bob and Farah best.

Actually, my first
involvement with Fratta

was before the murder.

It was a home invasion
robbery at their home.

They were separated
at this point.

Farah was asleep in her bed,

and the so-called suspect

came in through the only door

that had no alarm.

He went in the bedroom
and he tased her.

And then naturally, the
other kids are awakened too,

traumatized them.

So what made you think
that Fratta was involved

in that incident as well?

This is just a guess on my part.

But he´s not the
luckiest man in the world

to walk through a door
that doesn´t have alarm.

Somebody told him.

And we can pretty
much rule Farah out.

Yeah. And the
kids probably just

don´t go to the bad guy,
say, "Hey, why don´t you

come in through the back
door," so that left Bob.

Maybe two or three days later,

we kind of got an idea
of what was going on.

I brought her in first.

She told me who she suspected.

She said, I think his name is
Prystash, but I don´t know.

I think she suspected
him from the gym.

I spoke to her. She
gave a statement.

She took a polygraph
test and passed it.

And then we brought
Bob in, and of course,

he denied any kind of
knowledge of what it was.

He was offered a polygraph exam,

and he told me he
didn´t believe in them,

which I found odd,
because, you know,

he was a Missouri City
police officer slash fireman.

So after his refusal,
I pretty much...

It was obvious
what was going on.

And I told him, I said,
I know what you´re up to.

You need to leave her alone.
Just... just leave her alone.

- Right.
- The next time I heard

about Farah and Robert

was I got a phone call
from the homicide division,

and they said, Well, she
was killed last night.

And I asked, Well,
where´s Robert?

And I said, He´s in
our office. And I said,

Can I come talk to him?
And they said, Sure.

He was in one of
our interview room.

So I walked in.

I said, I told you... I
told you to leave her alone.

I said, Robert, what
should happen to somebody

that has their wife killed?

He said, Well, that depends
on the circumstances.

You know? I got
up, turned around,

and looked at the homicide
guys, "Yep, he did it."

He´s the guy.

We talked a lot about Fratta.

But, you know, the victim
in this case is Farah.

You´ve had the
opportunity to meet her

on several occasions.

Well, of course, you know,
the first time I met her,

she was... she was terrified.

But, you know, even as
her being terrified,

I viewed her as a strong person.

She was very forthright.

She didn´t hold anything back.

She was a nice lady to the
point that I even told her,

"Look," you know, "be
careful," you know?

She clearly loved her kids.

She clearly protected her kids.

He married up, okay?

He did not deserve a Farah.

She was a smart lady,
and I think if she had

any indication at the
first that he was that way,

that relationship
probably would not have

went past dating.

They were married,
had three kids.

But at some point, things
started turning really south.

He seemed to be more
controlling with her.

And if anything, telling
her he wanted her to

change her behavior,
change her appearance.

I think that him pushing her
to be somebody that he wanted

as opposed to who she was,

is what provided her
push for the divorce.

He would have paid
for gym memberships.

He was not going to pay for
the children to be with her.

It´s a control issue.

If she
walks away with the kids,

who´s won? She won.

Controlling behavior
is not the only trait

that Larry reveals about Bob.

He got very deviant and
some of the sexual things

that he wanted from
Farah, and Farah was like,

"No, I´m not doing that."

I mean, I´m trying to put
this as nice as I can.

Okay? One of the things
that he requested her to do

was to defecate on him
during sexual encounters.

And if that´s not enough
for me to say, "See ya!"

there´s nothing that´s going
to get me to that point.

Yeah.

A key part of profiling is
understanding people´s behaviors

during very
stressful situations,

such as an interrogation.

Nick Xavier team up to watch
the 1994 police interrogation

of Robert Fratta.

Xavier focuses on
psychological clues

while Nate analyzes
Fratta´s physical behaviors.

What are your thoughts
about just how he´s acting,

how he looks?

You know, he´s got
his arms crossed.

Yeah. Which is, you know,

obviously defensive. Yeah,
like, what are you...

Why are you defensive?
What are you hiding?

And you come into this
interrogation like this,

which I mean, the police are
still going to interrogate you,

right, we know when
any spouse is murdered,

it is usually the
other spouse´s fault.

Exactly. Statistically
speaking, right?

Yeah.

I mean, I´ve always
been a statistics guy.

Really love getting,
like, a data set together

and just combing through
it, looking for patterns.

All right, here
we go. Playing.

I mean, he´s being very
cagey, very dodgy, like,

doesn´t really want
to offer up anything.

And my thing is, for you to
have been a police officer,

there should have been a little
bit more cooperation there.

All the men in my family
were in the military.

My dad was in law enforcement

and I wanted to do
something similar.

I question everything because
it´s necessary, it´s necessary

even if it´s uncomfortable,
even if it´s awkward.

I know I can take it.

I need answers in
order to move forward.

You´re telling me that
you´re a police officer

who doesn´t want to help
his own wife´s case?

Yeah, yeah. You
know what I mean?

Like, that´s kind
of, like, suspicious.

Like, how are you,
a police officer

and you don´t even
want to be involved?

Watching Bob Fratta
interviewed on the news

and by police, he seems vain,

lacking empathy and emotion.

Detective Larry Davis
found him controlling

and sexually deviant.

But what about people who
knew and worked with Bob?

What did they think?

Nate and Xavier meet with
Bob´s former coworker.

I actually started as
a reserve firefighter

for the city, Missouri
City, in about ´88.

And that´s when I first met Bob.

Missouri City is located in the
far southwest side of Houston.

At the time, the
population was about 48,000

and they did a unique thing,
they did what they called

a public safety program,
and that´s where

a portion of their
firefighting staff

and a portion of
their police staff

were both cross-trained
to do the other job.

So how was your first
impression of Robert Fratta?

Pretty easygoing.
Pretty fair guy.

He´s very vain.

He and I, we responded
to mutual aid fires,

and everything on us was
hot to touch, you know.

I´m taking things off.

We´re trying to
get out of our gear

as quick as we can cause
it´s hot, you know.

Not him, he had to have
his hair just perfect.

That´s kind of what we
just attributed just Bob.

He´s... And that´s
the way he is.

You know, he had some
really good friends there.

Some guys that started
the same time he did.

But the attitude, I mean, we...

Sometimes it was,
"That´s just Bob."

You know, if he´s acting
goofy or if he´s, you know,

if he gets moody
about something,

it was just,
"That´s just Bob."

We were all pretty
good little family.

And I think there was a total
of maybe 30 of us at the time.

So our families were always
welcome at the firehouse.

That´s how I met Farah and
that´s how I met the kids,

is, they would come up
and we´d have a big,

you know, big family
dinner, you know,

and we´d all sit
and eat at a table.

And she was really
sweet, you know,

And she doted on the kids.

You know, those were her babies.

Was there a difference
between how he was

before they began to separate
and after they separated?

Yes. Now he´s going
out and spending time

with his friends, doing
whatever wild and weird things

he wanted to be doing, so
that he could come back

and brag about it.

What kind of stuff would he
brag about going out and doing?

I mean, hell, he´d talk about
playing glass bottom boat.

What is that? If you
don´t mind explaining.

It´s having a woman defecate
on a glass table top

while you´re laying
underneath watching.

So yeah, just that kind
of stuff, you know,

it just would, would
get kind of off the wall

and overboard after a while.

How often would he come back
and talk about this stuff?

Like, was it like...

Pretty much every
shift? Every shift?

Yeah.

Bob´s coworker
definitely reinforces

our perception of Bob´s
vanity and sexual deviance.

But away from work, Bob Fratta
may have loosened up more.

What traits might his
close friends have noticed?

Like his gym buddies?

- Yeah, that´s what he did.
- Xavier and Nate

continue investigating.

You saw Fratta the
first time at the gym...

What did you think of him?

I thought he was a
little bit conceited.

He act like he was
a little conceited.

- Arrogant.
- Arrogant.

He knew he looked good.

Well, he did look good.

I used to work out all the time.

I saw Farah there,
she worked out.

She looked beautiful.
Good looking woman.

And then I saw Bob
there all the time.

And I guess he thought
he was beautiful, too.

´Cause he was always starin´
at himself in the mirror

and not working out.

So, like, how was,
like, the setup of the gym?

Upstairs was a free weights

and a lot of the
machines were downstairs,

and the cardio machines
were downstairs.

Coed, people mixing, mingling.

Of course, the heavy duty
guys were upstairs with

the heavy dumbbells and stuff.

That´s where we worked
out most of the time.

Was this kind of like
the culture of the gym,

would, like, you know, guys
trying to pick up girls?

- It was a meat market.
- A meat market? Yeah.

Guys would pick up
girls in the gym, yeah.

So how was his
interactions with women?

He could pick up
any girl he wanted.

In his mind, he could.

He was confident.

So, like, what
exactly was Fratta

asking everyone at the gym?

"Do you know someone that
would knock off my wife?"

- "Take her out."
- "Take her out."

I said, You know,
what´s that all about?

"Trying to see the kid,
she´s not being fair

in me seeing the kids, so
I´m going to find a way

to eliminate her," I
said, "Can´t help you."

In the absence of Robert Fratta,

like, what was the
conversation amongst you all?

They´re just thinking it´s...
He´s just blowing off steam

and nobody thinks he´s going
to do something like that.

I mean, if anybody
really thought that,

I mean, they would
probably tell Farah

or do something
about it to stop it.

But nobody really thinks he´s
going to do something like that.

One of the shifts a week
or two before the murder,

I had come in from patrol

and he had been checking
his answering machine

and he wasn´t happy with
whatever message it was.

And he´s walking around.
He´s mad, he´s angry.

He wants to kick
something, but he´s kind of

holding it back a
little bit, and I asked,

"What´s the matter? You okay?"
And he looked at me and says,

"You know, sometimes I think I
ought to just kill her myself.

That way, when I go to
prison, when I get out,

I´ll still have my kids."

At any moment did he
really confide in you

to the point where there was
like a red flag and like,

"Hey, man, maybe he´s
not kidding here,"

or maybe, you know, "I should
say something"... nothing?

You go on about your life.

You hear it and you go,
"Well, dude, come on."

You never think that´s going
to happen, then it´s like...

Not here in Humble!

We ain´t gonna see that
happening in Humble!

Then it happened.

He is a Missouri City
firefighter and police...

I remember turning
on the TV and literally

within a minute of
turning the TV on,

they cut to him being
released from questioning.

Relatives say
Fratta and her husband...

I just... "Holy
shit, this is Bob."

And as he´s being escorted out
and he sees the cameras there,

you know, the first thing
he does is fixes eyebrow

and fixes hair in his
reflection in the camera lens.

And I´m like, well, that´s
friggin´ typical Bob.

Son of a bitch did it.

If he didn´t do it,
he had somebody do it.

Because his comments that day
they were so frustrated was,

"sometimes I think I ought
to just kill her myself."

It´s critical for
the students and I to be

fully appraised of every single
phase of justice involvement

of somebody that we´re
trying to build a profile of.

Even past cases are relevant

because we´re looking for
patterns and personality traits.

Jordan and I meet with
prosecutor Roe Wilson,

who handled Bob Fratta´s
appeals through the years.

Jordan brings her legal
skills to the meeting.

My dad is a
criminal defense attorney

and I used to work at my dad´s
office when I was younger.

I work for the state attorney´s
office in Hillsborough County,

and I want to make sure that
we are putting people away

who deserve to be put away.

So can you tell us a little
bit about how you got involved

with the Fratta case?

I handled the
Robert Fratta case,

the Howard Paul Guidry
case... The shooter´s case...

And the Joseph Prystash´s
case, who was the middle man.

Can you tell us a little
bit about Robert Fratta

and the evidence that
you found against him

that obviously was used to
convict him not once, but twice?

Fratta´s first
conviction was overturned

due to the hit man´s
confession being ruled

constitutionally inadequate.

Yet, even without the
gunman´s confession

being admitted in
the second trial,

there´s still enough evidence
that Fratta was found guilty

and sentenced to death.

Can you help us understand a
little bit about motivation,

what was going on that
would have led to this.

Why he did it? I think he did
it just because he was angry.

He was angry because his
wife had filed for divorce.

Then there was an
issue about custody.

Fratta was not happy about
paying child support.

And before the offense occurred,

they had learned that the
custody recommendation

was going to go to
Farah, not Robert.

So we know that was kind
of a trigger for all of it.

What can you tell us about
Fratta´s strategy at trial?

What evidence did he
present as his alibi?

Well, he actually almost used
his children as an alibi,

which was totally reprehensible.

What do you think that
says about his personality?

He´s a total narcissist.

When he arrived at the scene,

knowing that she had been
shot and was likely dead,

he walked up to one of
the officers and said,

"Can we expedite this?"

Do you know whether or
not Fratta has put in

a petition to... Of
a claim of innocence?

Well, actually, he did not
allege actual innocence

in the state writ
that I handled.

He alleged it in
the federal writ.

If you look at the federal
opinion that talks about that,

they rejected his claim
as having no merit.

Fratta just comes up
with two different people

and tries to put them
in Guidry´s place

and Prystash´s place and
says, "I can´t be guilty

because I was alleged to have
committed this this offense

with Prystash and Guidry,
and if Prystash and Guidry

didn´t do it, then
I must be innocent."

It´s a kind of circular argument

that doesn´t have
any merit to it.

I think that Fratta is as
guilty, if not more guilty,

than the person who
pulled the trigger

because he started it.

He asked at least
nine or ten people,

"Do you know anyone
who kill my wife?

If you don´t know any one,
would you kill my wife?"

Sounds like he
almost didn´t care.

Who knew that he was trying
to have his wife killed?

Yeah. I think he
honestly believes

he´s smarter than anyone else.

Did Bob Fratta really
think he could speak to

multiple people about having his
wife killed and not get caught?

This degree of
grandiosity is so extreme,

it reinforces my hunch that

Bob Fratta might
be a psychopath.

One of the reasons why
the murder for hire plot

was not well orchestrated was
because he was that grandiose.

He thought he was going
to get away with it.

And the reason why he was
claiming that he was innocent

was not because there was
any evidence to support that,

but because he wanted to
go all the way to the end

without taking responsibility
for his actions

and having no remorse.

All of which are
characteristics of psychopaths.

Which takes us another step
closer to answering the question

Why did Fratta kill his wife?

So far, our research
has all been secondhand.

Tomorrow, we get to hear
from the man himself.

All right, guys. So we
have, as you guys know,

an interview set up
with Robert Fratta.

And we obviously have a very
short amount of time with him,

just one hour.

So to start, you know,
what are we trying to get?

I mean, shot in the dark.
We get him to confess.

We have to at least try it.

So the big thing
would be a confession.

But, obviously, I don´t
think we´re going to get much

out of him.

He´s been issuing these
briefs on his appeals

saying he´s absolutely innocent.

So the odds that he´s just going
to straight up confess to me is,

I think, extremely low.

Do we think he´s a psychopath?

You know, he is
narcissistic, he is very...

He clearly cares...
He´s manipulative.

He cares about the
way he looks. Yeah.

That´s one thing
we could explore,

press some of these
personality traits

that really are difficult to
see or explain in the documents.

But when we talk to him,

it´ll be, I think,
really evident.

Do you even want to try to
establish rapport at first?

I think that there´s
some amount of rapport,

but sometimes they really
want to be the one in control.

He really thinks he´s
God´s gift to women.

So the mere fact that you are
a woman may pose an issue.

Well, they think
they´re manipulating me,

and I feel like I´m letting
them they let their guard down

and they´d be more
willing to slip up

because they´re not
watching every word.

And I´m actually using
that to my advantage

to try to get things out of them

while they´re being
complimentary.

But I´m actually using
that to try to find an in.

- This is an old FBI trick?
- That´s an old FBI trick.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

- It´s truly a dance.
- Yes. It is.

Is he going to be talking to
me or is this a little game?

One of the highest
prevalence is of psychopaths

you could probably ever see

would be walking through
the halls of death row.

But typically we´re not
able to make assessments

about whether or not
somebody is a psychopath

if we´ve never interviewed them.

Okay, we´re good to go.
So that´s time?

So we have one hour on the
mark, and I´m asking questions.

You know, some obviously, I want
to hear, obviously, your side.

That was one thing I
want to talk to you about

is what your side
of the story is.

Other things I´m going
to say, you know,

this is the opposing view.

And I want to hear,
you know, what...

What´s your response
to that, okay?

Yeah, yeah, I understand that.

So, you know, to start can
tell me about your childhood.

I didn´t really get to
learn very much about it.

My upbringing, I
would say was normal.

I was short and skinny,
so I kind of got picked on

a little bit, but
nothing severe.

I thought by working out it
would help dissuade bullying,

keep people away a little bit.

Can you describe
yourself as a person?

I have to say, I was...

How can I describe it?

Naive, insecure.

I was a virgin till I was 22.

And so a lot of times women

wanted to get with me
and I just shied away.

And one was even a
celebrity, and I shied away.

Who was that? I´m not
going to say that,

but I shied away from it.

I mean, I could have lost
my virginity to a celebrity.

And... but I was just scared.

When did that change?

When you were no
longer insecure?

I don´t think it ever changed.

I guess that´s why
I moved to Houston.

I had never been any place
where you walk into a club

and women were just
grabbing me and saying,

"Come on, let´s go have sex."

And I was like, "Wow.
This is different."

I mean, sex was
nothing in Houston.

I mean, it was very... it´s
just the way... how things were.

Well, certainly you´re at
clubs and women are, you know,

throwing themselves at you.

Can you tell me when
you... it sort of changed?

I mean, I was content
dating, and I guess to me,

it was just... I was just
going through the motions

is the best way to describe it.

And it wasn´t until I
met... I met Farah in ´81.

I didn´t even want to date her.
I wasn´t even interested in her.

But she basically
just pursued me.

In fact, one of the guys
from the gym described it

as she was stalking me.

So... well, you were
obviously very popular,

you know, with women.

You mentioned that Farah
was originally pursuing you.

What made
you attracted to her?

I have to say the
way she was treating me.

For me, it was the
first woman that I dated

who was wanting to do so much.

And so I felt like,

well, I guess God put this
woman in my life for a reason.

And maybe this must be the
woman he wants me to marry.

Even though, like I said,
that was never on my mind

when we first met.

So things obviously
started going south.

Why were you guys
getting divorced?

Wow. You would have
had to ask her that

because I thought
everything was okay.

And when I took that
vow to stay married,

for better or for worse,
I felt like I had to honor

that vow because
we´re talking God.

When I got this order,

it was telling me that not only
was she filing for divorce,

but I couldn´t even
reenter my own house.

I couldn´t have
custody of my children.

And so at the time, she
was telling me that,

well, we can try to
still work things out.

But she started dating
five guys at the same time.

Right. I had already suggested

just having an open marriage.

Actually in in Christian
is called concubines.

And what did she say?

She said, no, she
didn´t want to do that.

She wasn´t a supporter
of that idea.

No. How´d that make you feel?

You must´ve been upset.

Well, yeah. That´s why
I vented frustrations.

She wants half of
everything. She wants this.

She wants the child support.
I´m like, half of everything?

But you don´t even...
Everything was mine.

Okay.

You mentioned that you
had guns in the house.

- Well, she did, yes.
- She did.

One of the guns that
you had purchased

was the gun that ultimately
was used to kill Farah.

Supposedly there´s dispute
now about the ballistics,

but... but we´ll go
ahead and say yes,

because that´s what
the statements say.

Playing devil´s advocate.
Right. But so explain to me,

how would your gun then be
the one used to kill her?

Well, that´s where I have to
correct you: It wasn´t my gun.

It was Farah´s gun; and
Farah... Remember I told you

she was doing,
like, stalking me?

She wanted to do
everything I did.

I wanted to go shooting,
she wanted to go shooting.

Well, she was a British citizen,
so she couldn´t buy a gun.

I had to buy the gun for her.

So that´s why it´s in my name.

Okay. Okay?

So in total, there
were nine people

that said that you asked
them to kill Farah.

You know, some said
that there were details

and when and how and what to do.

You know, I know you
maintain your innocence.

So just in general, how
do you explain that part?

I vented. I said that
even when they pulled me down

the night Farah was killed.

I said, "Look, I vented
to a lot of people,

I was not doing well mentally."

Many people... our viewers
are going to sit here

and look at the evidence

and look at what people
are saying and look at,

you know, your gun was
used, you are angry,

People are saying that
you asked for there to be

a hit on your wife.

And then there was, you
know, it´s a lot of smoke.

Right? And so if if it wasn´t
you, you know, then who did it?

That´s where you have to
look at the statements.

And that´s the only thing I can
go by, because I don´t know.

Is there anything else that now
that you have the opportunity

to sort of like
get off your chest,

anything that you would
like to say or add?

I mean, I can´t
think of anything.

I guess what I was more thinking
we were going to talk about

was the law parties
aspect of things,

and so people could
understand that even

if they want to think...

Even if people want to believe
that I solicited Prystash,

it´s... I can talk sense
into, like, just talk the law

to show I´m innocent
of capital murder.

It´s, even if you
don´t want to believe

that I´m completely innocent,
which I´m saying all along I am,

I can show you how I´m
innocent of capital murder.

It´s all in black and white.

Is there something that we don´t
know yet that could help us

to really understand
who maybe did?

Because somebody had to have?

If you or anybody

would investigate the
statements that are posted

on the... my website. Yeah.

Nobody will investigate.

So people always want
to keep on like a...

To me it´s attacking me, and
say, well, what happened?

Well, investigate
the statements,

because to me they
should be investigated

to try to disprove them.

And if you can´t disprove them,
that means that the truth.

I tried to talk to Robert
and see if he would change

any of his statements, and
he absolutely would not.

He would not take any
responsibility for his actions.

And if anything, he
kept the lie going.

Throughout all of this, I
mean, I know you´re saying

that you were angry, but I mean,
did you have any other emotions?

I mean, you were trying
to make it, I guess,

to me feel like you were angry,

but not enough to have a,
let´s say, hit put out on her.

To me, it started out joking.

Like, guys would say, "Hey,
what´s the latest with Farah?"

"now she´s got
sexual allegations.

Now she´s doing this,
now she´s doing that."

So that´s what made
me go from the joking

about where people would say,

"Well, why don´t you... Why
don´t you just kill her?"

I´m like, "Well, I´m
not going to kill her."

So, "Well, why don´t
you hire somebody?"

"What, do you know somebody?"

And it just went back
and forth like that.

And to me, all I
wanted to do was...

appease myself
through the venting.

Otherwise, if I had really
wanted to kill Farah,

I could have done it myself
and gotten away with it.

Right. And in fact,

I needed her to be
paying me child support.

And... because I
didn´t have any money

and I was out of
everything that I owned

because of going
through the divorce

and paying tens of
thousands of dollars

for two attorneys
and everything.

Right. So, yeah, no,

if I wanted to have killed her,

I could have done it
and gotten away with it.

Are we out of time, sir? Okay.

Maybe we´ll be able to
come back and talk more.

We have to wait 90 days.

Okay.

So, thank you for answering
all of my questions.

All right. Thank
you. Appreciate it.

Robert Fratta claims
that in my interview

he was not given an opportunity

to detail new evidence
that proves his innocence.

We have requested a
follow up interview

to address his concerns but
Mr. Fratta has declined.

I own, because of going
through the divorce

and paying tens of
thousands of dollars

for two attorneys
and everything.

- Right.
- So, you know, if I wanted to

have killed her, I could have
done it and gotten away with it.

In terms of the
money that was paid...

You can pause it here.

"I could have gotten
away with it."

Yeah, "Could have
gotten away with it.":

You know, if he was
really innocent,

why in the world would you
be thinking of other ways

that you would have
killed your wife?

You wouldn´t! You
wouldn´t do it.

Well, he probably
was like, okay, well,

let me hire someone to do it.
And then when I didn´t go well,

he was like, I could
have done this myself.

I would have gotten
away with it.

And that shows he´s not

thinking about
this remorsefully,

that´s his only regret...
That he got caught,

not that he did it.

And like I said,
it was just normal.

And I didn´t see anything
outstanding of what I was doing

or anything different
from what I was doing.

And I guess to me was just...
I was just going through

the motions, is the
best way to describe it.

One aspect of
psychopathy is the fact

that there´s lack of intimacy
or depth in relationships.

On our honeymoon,

that´s when Farah
showed her true colors.

And now I feel like I
should have flown right back

to Houston and got an annulment.

Several times I
just wanted to get up

and walk out of that interview,
but I stayed just because

I was hoping that this
could be a teaching moment

for my students and
for other people

that, no matter what
the cover looks like,

this person, the one
that is repeatedly

saying such horrible
things about the victim,

is the reality
underneath the surface.

It was difficult to hear
him revictimizing her.

The majority of the interview
spends blaming Farah

for her own death,
for her assault.

So we were able to
uncover a lot through this case

and our investigation of it.

What do you guys think?

What are our conclusions
about why he did it?

I think he was upset with Farah.

I think he knew that
she was going to

take full custody of the kids.

I almost felt like he didn´t
want her to have control.

It´s all about control for him.

He didn´t want to look like

he was the weaker link
of the two of them.

To me, the obvious reason
of why he would do that

based upon my
interview with him,

based upon the interviews
we´ve had other people,

all of the case files
that we´ve read,

I think he would score very
high in terms of psychopathy

and looking at the
general population,

psychopathy is only
about 1% of all people,

and it´s about 40% of all
serious violent offenders.

Psychopathy, as you guys know,
is this pattern of personality

and behavioral and
interpersonal traits

that leads somebody to be
very low in terms of empathy,

remorse, a very
shallow emotions.

They don´t feel very deeply.

They tend to be very impulsive
and reckless, narcissistic,

and they tend to not
take any responsibility

for their actions.

One of my favorite
quotes about psychopathy

is that they know the music,

but they really don´t
know the melody.

And so he clearly understands

what to say around people.

He can convince other people
what he wants them to see.

But at the end of the
day, when he´s pushed

and he´s put in a
corner, that slips,

and the reality comes through.

Whatever he wants,

whether it´s power and control,

whether it´s to teach
somebody a lesson

or to get what he wants,

he´s going to do
whatever he wants,

whether it´s legal or illegal.

And it´s probably a good thing
that at least he´s behind bars,

because without
that, we don´t know

what he may be doing
somebody else in the future.

While I can´t say conclusively

without doing a full evaluation,

there´s a lot of reason
to believe that he fits

a lot of the characteristics
of a psychopath.

People may dismiss this case

because he didn´t
actually pull the trigger.

Without him, none of
this would have occurred.

He actively made decisions all
along the way that were bad.

All of those were potential
points of intervention.

So that´s one major
motivator for why I train

my students and law enforcement

and hopefully anybody who
comes across cases like this

and they see those red flags,
they´ll know best to intervene

because you never know what´s
gonna come down the line.