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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:07,000 Downloaded from YTS.MX 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,000 Official YIFY movies site: YTS.MX 3 00:00:50,216 --> 00:00:53,928 Have you heard of Jho Low? 4 00:00:54,012 --> 00:00:55,638 - Jho Low? - Yeah. 5 00:00:55,722 --> 00:00:57,182 - I don't know. - Jho Low. 6 00:00:58,141 --> 00:01:00,101 I've never heard of Jho Low. 7 00:01:00,185 --> 00:01:02,771 1MDB was created by the Malaysian government 8 00:01:02,854 --> 00:01:03,980 with the ultimate goal 9 00:01:04,064 --> 00:01:07,484 of improving the well-being of the Malaysian people. 10 00:01:08,068 --> 00:01:11,529 The funds that were stolen from 1MDB 11 00:01:12,697 --> 00:01:14,991 were used to fund Jho Low 12 00:01:15,075 --> 00:01:18,036 and his family and friends' lavish lifestyle. 13 00:01:18,119 --> 00:01:22,749 {\an8}This is the largest kleptocracy seizure in US history. 14 00:01:22,832 --> 00:01:26,461 It was just outright greed and kleptocracy. 15 00:01:26,544 --> 00:01:30,507 ...more than $3 billion that was stolen from 1MDB 16 00:01:30,590 --> 00:01:32,717 and laundered through a complex web, 17 00:01:32,801 --> 00:01:35,553 with bank accounts in countries around the world. 18 00:01:35,637 --> 00:01:37,180 The investigation is ongoing. 19 00:01:37,263 --> 00:01:40,600 The way I see it is concentric circles of knowledge. 20 00:01:41,559 --> 00:01:43,269 At the center is Jho Low. 21 00:03:04,851 --> 00:03:06,352 I like to plan my evenings 22 00:03:06,436 --> 00:03:09,355 and make sure that I always go to the best parties. 23 00:03:10,189 --> 00:03:14,444 Jho Low was like this Roman candle that just burst onto the scene 24 00:03:14,527 --> 00:03:21,659 {\an8}and became so flashy and well-known that there was no hiding it or denying it. 25 00:03:21,743 --> 00:03:25,246 Malaysia in the house! 26 00:03:29,459 --> 00:03:32,045 He was a man that had so much mystery around him. 27 00:03:32,128 --> 00:03:35,089 {\an8}No one knew where he was really getting this money from. 28 00:03:37,383 --> 00:03:39,427 {\an8}My job literally was to hang out 29 00:03:39,510 --> 00:03:42,889 {\an8}in every hot club in Manhattan till the lights went on 30 00:03:42,972 --> 00:03:45,683 just to observe what the celebrities were doing. 31 00:03:45,767 --> 00:03:47,227 I remember this guy 32 00:03:47,310 --> 00:03:50,438 always being in the center of these huge tables, right? 33 00:03:50,521 --> 00:03:52,815 Surrounded by these celebrities. 34 00:03:53,316 --> 00:03:57,445 And then you had this, like, short little Asian guy spraying Cristal. 35 00:03:59,030 --> 00:04:03,117 He was surrounded by the likes of Leonardo DiCaprio and Paris Hilton. 36 00:04:03,201 --> 00:04:05,536 Bradley Cooper went to a lot of his events. 37 00:04:05,620 --> 00:04:06,829 Robert de Niro was there. 38 00:04:06,913 --> 00:04:09,040 Kanye West, and Jamie Foxx. 39 00:04:09,123 --> 00:04:10,667 I got a friend. 40 00:04:10,750 --> 00:04:13,795 You know, he got some money. He got some money. 41 00:04:13,878 --> 00:04:18,132 He flew me, Leonardo DiCaprio, Jonah Hill, 42 00:04:18,216 --> 00:04:20,468 and some other cats, and we flew to Australia. 43 00:04:20,551 --> 00:04:23,096 We did the countdown in Australia, then jumped back on the plane, 44 00:04:23,179 --> 00:04:24,806 and then did the countdown in Vegas. 45 00:04:24,889 --> 00:04:25,932 That's crazy. 46 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:29,143 {\an8}So, for Jho Low's birthday, 47 00:04:29,227 --> 00:04:32,230 {\an8}he rented out a five-acre lot on the Las Vegas strip. 48 00:04:32,313 --> 00:04:35,483 I mean, this party was absolutely bananas. 49 00:04:35,566 --> 00:04:37,610 Every single celebrity in Hollywood was there, 50 00:04:37,694 --> 00:04:40,822 from Kanye West to Kim Kardashian, Leo DiCaprio, 51 00:04:40,905 --> 00:04:44,075 Benicio del Toro, Michael Phelps. 52 00:04:44,158 --> 00:04:45,243 300 people. 53 00:04:45,326 --> 00:04:47,245 Everybody had to sign an NDA 54 00:04:47,328 --> 00:04:48,955 before they walked through the door. 55 00:04:49,038 --> 00:04:51,958 He had a little bit of a crush on Britney Spears. 56 00:04:52,041 --> 00:04:54,377 He paid her a million dollars to come out on stage 57 00:04:54,460 --> 00:04:57,714 and pop out of a fake birthday cake. 58 00:04:57,797 --> 00:04:58,631 It was crazy. 59 00:04:59,132 --> 00:05:01,884 Some of these parties that Jho Low threw were so legendary, 60 00:05:01,968 --> 00:05:04,137 {\an8}there was no party that was better than that party. 61 00:05:04,220 --> 00:05:06,264 We're all thinking, like, how does this man 62 00:05:06,347 --> 00:05:09,976 attract all these big-time Hollywood celebrities? 63 00:05:10,059 --> 00:05:12,020 What we didn't realize is 64 00:05:12,103 --> 00:05:16,065 a lot of them were getting paid just to be there. 65 00:05:16,149 --> 00:05:18,484 Shouldn't their managers or agents say, 66 00:05:18,568 --> 00:05:20,820 "Guys, something doesn't add up here. Who is this guy?" 67 00:05:22,030 --> 00:05:24,574 At the end of the day, it's a check. 68 00:05:24,657 --> 00:05:26,409 It's payday. It's money. 69 00:05:26,492 --> 00:05:29,370 If you look at Leonardo DiCaprio's friends over the years, 70 00:05:29,454 --> 00:05:30,747 he always has a Jho Low. 71 00:05:30,830 --> 00:05:33,416 I don't think Jho Low and Leonardo DiCaprio were close. 72 00:05:34,417 --> 00:05:36,419 I actually spoke recently to someone 73 00:05:36,502 --> 00:05:38,588 who was on the yacht once with Leo, 74 00:05:38,671 --> 00:05:40,965 and Leo actually asked this guy, like, 75 00:05:41,049 --> 00:05:42,925 "Everybody says the money is clean, but are you sure?" 76 00:05:43,009 --> 00:05:44,177 "Like, do you know anything about it?" 77 00:05:44,260 --> 00:05:46,137 And this person reassured him, like, "Oh, it's fine." 78 00:05:46,220 --> 00:05:48,222 You know, "This is how the world works." 79 00:05:48,306 --> 00:05:49,182 Money is money. 80 00:05:49,265 --> 00:05:53,644 Everybody wants it, and a lot of people do whatever it's going to take to get it. 81 00:06:07,825 --> 00:06:09,202 Jho Low 82 00:06:09,285 --> 00:06:12,955 {\an8}is a fat Chinese boy 83 00:06:13,039 --> 00:06:18,377 {\an8}who I first discovered partying with Paris Hilton, 84 00:06:18,461 --> 00:06:21,589 drinking bottles of Cristal champagne. 85 00:06:21,672 --> 00:06:22,840 I have no idea what that is. 86 00:06:24,133 --> 00:06:28,721 {\an8}Both kind of idiotically brazen and somewhat... 87 00:06:29,555 --> 00:06:31,849 {\an8}I hate to use genius, but clever. 88 00:06:33,601 --> 00:06:36,479 Jho Low is a crazy guy. 89 00:06:37,230 --> 00:06:41,067 {\an8}Some people say that he's smart, he's clever, but I say he's not. 90 00:06:41,150 --> 00:06:43,444 {\an8}He's a crazy guy because I don't see 91 00:06:43,528 --> 00:06:45,822 how he thought he could get away with it. 92 00:06:46,364 --> 00:06:48,616 It was just a matter of time before he was caught. 93 00:06:48,699 --> 00:06:50,952 Jho definitely, for a young person, 94 00:06:51,035 --> 00:06:54,288 really understood quickly how the world works. 95 00:06:54,372 --> 00:06:57,166 Somebody once told me that one of his favorite films was 96 00:06:57,250 --> 00:06:58,626 The Count of Monte Cristo. 97 00:06:58,709 --> 00:07:00,837 You know, obviously, it's better known as a book. 98 00:07:02,380 --> 00:07:03,297 But he watched the film. 99 00:07:04,382 --> 00:07:09,137 In that film, the guy is able to reinvent himself with all this money. 100 00:07:09,220 --> 00:07:11,139 These big parties he was throwing 101 00:07:11,222 --> 00:07:14,183 gave him this kind of mysterious power over people. 102 00:07:14,267 --> 00:07:15,560 Jho Low knew early on that, 103 00:07:15,643 --> 00:07:18,020 if he could be the wizard behind the curtain, 104 00:07:18,104 --> 00:07:20,982 sort of like the wizard wandering around the edges of the party, 105 00:07:21,065 --> 00:07:22,900 that he would have a bigger status. 106 00:07:24,986 --> 00:07:26,821 He went to private school in Europe. 107 00:07:26,904 --> 00:07:29,991 Harrow has become one of Britain's most expensive schools. 108 00:07:30,074 --> 00:07:32,952 No fewer than seven prime ministers have been taught here. 109 00:07:33,494 --> 00:07:36,664 {\an8}And then he got his degrees at Wharton. 110 00:07:36,747 --> 00:07:39,584 {\an8}But no one in Malaysia had a clue who he was 111 00:07:39,667 --> 00:07:42,962 {\an8}except, thanks to Najib's stepson, 112 00:07:43,045 --> 00:07:45,131 {\an8}Riza Aziz, 113 00:07:45,214 --> 00:07:47,049 {\an8}he got to know the prime minister 114 00:07:47,133 --> 00:07:50,052 {\an8}and Riza's mommy, Rosmah. 115 00:08:02,315 --> 00:08:05,026 At that point, Najib was the minister of defense, 116 00:08:05,109 --> 00:08:07,361 and so Jho was interested in this. 117 00:08:07,445 --> 00:08:09,030 This is a powerful political family. 118 00:08:09,822 --> 00:08:11,616 Sometimes, the Najib family referred to themselves 119 00:08:11,699 --> 00:08:14,994 as the Kennedys of Malaysia, which is very generous. 120 00:08:16,329 --> 00:08:19,165 {\an8}When Jho Low was creating this first company called Wynton, 121 00:08:19,248 --> 00:08:20,958 {\an8}Riza could be involved somehow. 122 00:08:21,042 --> 00:08:23,503 {\an8}He had the right pedigree, the right background, 123 00:08:23,586 --> 00:08:24,629 {\an8}the right name 124 00:08:24,712 --> 00:08:27,673 {\an8}to kind of lend some legitimacy to the company. 125 00:08:27,757 --> 00:08:31,010 Najib was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. 126 00:08:31,093 --> 00:08:32,386 His family comes from 127 00:08:32,470 --> 00:08:36,224 an aristocratic family in the state of Pahang. 128 00:08:36,307 --> 00:08:37,934 His father, Tun Razak, 129 00:08:38,017 --> 00:08:41,854 {\an8}was the second prime minister of Malaysia. 130 00:08:41,938 --> 00:08:43,564 He was born for the job. 131 00:08:44,607 --> 00:08:46,943 He was destined to be prime minister one day. 132 00:08:47,026 --> 00:08:48,736 It was just a matter of time. 133 00:08:49,278 --> 00:08:54,075 A portrait, my favorite portrait of my late father 134 00:08:54,158 --> 00:08:56,536 when he was prime minister. 135 00:08:56,619 --> 00:09:01,999 I decided to pose in the same, in almost the same manner, 136 00:09:02,083 --> 00:09:06,462 and juxtapose the two in one photograph. 137 00:09:06,546 --> 00:09:09,966 So, that's how it came about. 138 00:09:13,636 --> 00:09:16,681 Prime minister, you've introduced the concept of 1Malaysia. 139 00:09:17,306 --> 00:09:19,475 What is 1Malaysia to you? 140 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:20,851 1Malaysia is about 141 00:09:20,935 --> 00:09:24,188 a sense that we are together as one people. 142 00:09:30,611 --> 00:09:34,156 1MDB was created, at least ostensibly, 143 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:40,037 {\an8}as a development fund, as a fund intended to raise money 144 00:09:40,121 --> 00:09:44,959 {\an8}and help the development of infrastructure in Malaysia. 145 00:09:48,462 --> 00:09:50,756 {\an8}A country that has a lot of excess money 146 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:53,676 will take that excess surplus government money, 147 00:09:53,759 --> 00:09:56,178 invest it in business projects and deals, 148 00:09:56,262 --> 00:09:58,723 so that they can make a profit for their governments. 149 00:09:59,223 --> 00:10:01,017 The Kuwaitis have a famous one. 150 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:03,269 So does Qatar, 151 00:10:03,352 --> 00:10:04,270 so do the Saudis, 152 00:10:04,353 --> 00:10:07,064 and so does the UAE. 153 00:10:07,148 --> 00:10:10,610 Malaysia came up with the same idea in 1MDB. 154 00:10:10,693 --> 00:10:14,030 In contrast, 1MDB didn't have any money. 155 00:10:14,113 --> 00:10:16,032 It didn't have 156 00:10:16,115 --> 00:10:19,744 a supply of excess government cash that it could invest, 157 00:10:19,827 --> 00:10:21,662 so it went out and it borrowed it. 158 00:10:21,746 --> 00:10:22,997 It acquired debt. 159 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:28,794 The idea of borrowing billions of dollars 160 00:10:28,878 --> 00:10:33,174 to invest it back into Malaysia and back into infrastructure 161 00:10:33,257 --> 00:10:36,886 and things that are going to better the lives of Malaysians 162 00:10:36,969 --> 00:10:38,721 is a noble idea. 163 00:10:38,804 --> 00:10:40,806 The first thing they did was to announce that 164 00:10:40,890 --> 00:10:44,894 they were going to build the tallest skyscraper in Malaysia 165 00:10:44,977 --> 00:10:48,481 and to build one more shopping mall, 166 00:10:48,564 --> 00:10:51,651 as if KL needed any more, 167 00:10:51,734 --> 00:10:53,152 and then the next thing you know, 168 00:10:53,235 --> 00:10:56,155 they're investing money in Saudi Arabia. 169 00:10:56,238 --> 00:10:59,533 What does that have to do with Malaysia 170 00:10:59,617 --> 00:11:02,536 and with trying to find the new sources of economic growth 171 00:11:02,620 --> 00:11:03,704 for the 21st century? 172 00:11:05,956 --> 00:11:08,626 But very little information was made available publicly 173 00:11:08,709 --> 00:11:10,461 because it was not a listed company. 174 00:11:10,544 --> 00:11:14,215 So what we did was, we got whatever was publicly available 175 00:11:14,298 --> 00:11:16,842 and then we started asking questions. 176 00:11:16,926 --> 00:11:18,719 Why this? Why that? 177 00:11:18,803 --> 00:11:23,349 I was stopped many times from pursuing 178 00:11:23,432 --> 00:11:27,561 any form of queries or investigations into 1MDB. 179 00:11:28,062 --> 00:11:31,690 What is the purpose of the loan that was given to 1MDB? 180 00:11:31,774 --> 00:11:36,112 But even then, I never expected it to be so wrong, 181 00:11:36,195 --> 00:11:38,864 to be so huge in nature. 182 00:11:39,573 --> 00:11:41,534 There were murmurings about 183 00:11:41,617 --> 00:11:43,202 some transactions were not kosher, 184 00:11:43,285 --> 00:11:44,620 and, of course, Jho Low. 185 00:11:45,913 --> 00:11:48,707 Everybody had heard about Jho Low by then 186 00:11:48,791 --> 00:11:51,335 and that he was involved in 1MDB. 187 00:11:52,253 --> 00:11:57,216 As newsmen, sometimes we can feel or smell something. 188 00:12:01,470 --> 00:12:03,055 1MDB, yes? 189 00:12:03,139 --> 00:12:04,640 {\an8}Well, it's, ah... 190 00:12:05,933 --> 00:12:10,229 {\an8}It's an organization set up by our former PM. 191 00:12:12,273 --> 00:12:15,943 Then the rest are... 192 00:12:16,026 --> 00:12:18,446 The rest are all in the news. 193 00:12:21,157 --> 00:12:22,992 {\an8}Yeah, I heard about 1MDB. 194 00:12:23,075 --> 00:12:26,162 {\an8}It's something very... 195 00:12:26,245 --> 00:12:27,413 {\an8}It's a champion of the world? 196 00:12:27,496 --> 00:12:29,206 It's kind of complicated, you know? 197 00:12:31,459 --> 00:12:33,627 Companies are, in a sense, legal fiction. 198 00:12:33,711 --> 00:12:37,089 {\an8}There must be always human individuals, human personalities, 199 00:12:37,173 --> 00:12:40,301 {\an8}directing and deciding for companies. 200 00:12:40,384 --> 00:12:43,971 Who are the people making the big decisions for 1MDB? 201 00:12:44,054 --> 00:12:47,600 It's definitely between Najib and Jho Low. 202 00:12:47,683 --> 00:12:51,562 They are the two people controlling it and directing the affairs. 203 00:12:51,645 --> 00:12:54,064 {\an8}Najib was prime minister, 204 00:12:54,148 --> 00:12:55,941 {\an8}he was finance minister, 205 00:12:56,025 --> 00:12:58,402 {\an8}and he also was the chairman of 1MDB. 206 00:12:59,153 --> 00:13:01,780 So, the pattern would go something like this. 207 00:13:01,864 --> 00:13:06,076 Jho Low goes to the president of 1MDB, who reports to Najib, 208 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:08,621 and says, "The boss wants you to do this." 209 00:13:09,163 --> 00:13:12,958 So, the president of 1MDB says, "Oh, okay." 210 00:13:13,042 --> 00:13:17,505 {\an8}And then Najib signs off on that as Chairman of 1MDB, 211 00:13:17,588 --> 00:13:20,925 {\an8}and it has to be reviewed by the finance ministry, 212 00:13:21,008 --> 00:13:23,928 {\an8}and the minister of finance, who is Najib, 213 00:13:24,011 --> 00:13:25,721 {\an8}says, "Sounds good to me." 214 00:13:25,804 --> 00:13:27,473 {\an8}And then it's reviewed by the prime minister, 215 00:13:27,556 --> 00:13:29,058 {\an8}who also happens to be Najib. 216 00:13:31,101 --> 00:13:33,646 {\an8}There were absolutely no checks or balances. 217 00:13:34,605 --> 00:13:38,609 Jho Low never had any official role in 1MDB, 218 00:13:38,692 --> 00:13:41,445 but he's always seen with the prime minister. 219 00:13:41,529 --> 00:13:46,951 Obviously, the 1MDB executives knew that 220 00:13:47,034 --> 00:13:49,745 Jho Low actually calls the shot. 221 00:13:49,828 --> 00:13:54,041 What he says is what the prime minister wants. 222 00:13:54,124 --> 00:13:55,793 What is never clear 223 00:13:55,876 --> 00:13:58,212 is the relationship between the two of them. 224 00:13:58,295 --> 00:14:01,215 Who is the puppet master and who is the puppet? 225 00:14:01,298 --> 00:14:04,969 That's a riddle because it's really between the two of them. 226 00:14:05,678 --> 00:14:09,056 Jho Low used political connections, 227 00:14:09,139 --> 00:14:10,808 whether it was in the United States 228 00:14:10,891 --> 00:14:13,102 or whether it was in Saudi Arabia, 229 00:14:13,185 --> 00:14:15,229 {\an8}or the UAE, or Malaysia, 230 00:14:15,312 --> 00:14:18,649 to then get an in to make the business deals that he wanted to do. 231 00:14:18,732 --> 00:14:22,319 One of the things he did was he was able to facilitate a relationship 232 00:14:22,403 --> 00:14:24,822 between the Malaysian political elite, 233 00:14:24,905 --> 00:14:29,368 {\an8}i.e., Prime Minister Najib, and the Abu Dhabi elite. 234 00:14:29,451 --> 00:14:32,162 {\an8}So, Jho Low's first connection was Yousef Al Otaiba. 235 00:14:32,246 --> 00:14:34,915 {\an8}He met him when he was in college and got introduced to him 236 00:14:34,999 --> 00:14:38,085 back when Yousef Al Otaiba was not a globally known name. 237 00:14:39,587 --> 00:14:42,131 Jho Low was kind of this up-and-coming guy 238 00:14:42,214 --> 00:14:45,509 {\an8}who reached out to him to ask for advice on 239 00:14:45,593 --> 00:14:50,014 you know, how to navigate the halls of power in the Gulf, 240 00:14:50,097 --> 00:14:54,143 and Otaiba took a lunch with him and took a liking to him. 241 00:14:55,436 --> 00:14:58,230 Yousef started doing introductions for Jho. 242 00:14:58,314 --> 00:14:59,940 Jho would do deals with those people, 243 00:15:00,649 --> 00:15:02,902 and then he would pay Yousef money 244 00:15:02,985 --> 00:15:04,320 as almost kind of like a commission 245 00:15:04,403 --> 00:15:07,615 for helping make the introduction or helping make the deal. 246 00:15:07,698 --> 00:15:10,826 One of Jho Low's earliest enterprises 247 00:15:10,910 --> 00:15:17,333 {\an8}was Abu Dhabi Malaysia Kuwaiti Investment Fund. 248 00:15:17,416 --> 00:15:20,210 {\an8}So, he had been boasting about Sheikh Otaiba 249 00:15:20,294 --> 00:15:23,088 {\an8}as one of his fancy Middle Eastern contacts. 250 00:15:23,172 --> 00:15:25,466 It seems that Otaiba was clearly 251 00:15:25,549 --> 00:15:29,094 a very important early contact for Jho Low. 252 00:15:29,178 --> 00:15:30,554 He and his allies 253 00:15:30,638 --> 00:15:33,766 were doing everything they could for Jho Low, 254 00:15:33,849 --> 00:15:36,477 and it definitely appeared as if 255 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:39,605 they were benefiting quite strikingly. 256 00:15:40,856 --> 00:15:42,316 There are always 257 00:15:42,399 --> 00:15:45,903 {\an8}what we sometimes call fixers, 258 00:15:45,986 --> 00:15:49,615 operators, for those in power. 259 00:15:49,698 --> 00:15:51,533 They never have any official role, 260 00:15:52,368 --> 00:15:54,703 but they are the ones connected to the power. 261 00:15:54,787 --> 00:15:58,582 Everyone was talking about 1MDB as Najib's slush fund. 262 00:15:58,666 --> 00:16:01,502 It was known that his advisor on this fund 263 00:16:01,585 --> 00:16:05,422 had been this rather flamboyant young Chinese guy, 264 00:16:05,506 --> 00:16:08,842 but no one really knew more than that. 265 00:16:08,926 --> 00:16:11,053 The media is very cautious in Malaysia, 266 00:16:11,136 --> 00:16:12,346 so it was all whispers. 267 00:16:13,055 --> 00:16:15,975 I started writing about this from a safe distance. 268 00:16:16,058 --> 00:16:18,560 No local journalists could do these stories, 269 00:16:18,644 --> 00:16:20,771 and I had the internet, so I was reaching 270 00:16:20,854 --> 00:16:23,899 a large and very interested Malaysian audience. 271 00:16:24,942 --> 00:16:27,069 Christmas of 2013, 272 00:16:27,152 --> 00:16:30,280 {\an8}Najib's notorious wife, Rosmah Mansor, 273 00:16:30,364 --> 00:16:33,575 {\an8}who was always considered to be the pants in that household, 274 00:16:33,659 --> 00:16:36,495 informed the education ministry that she wanted 275 00:16:36,578 --> 00:16:40,040 every school child in Malaysia to see a film. 276 00:16:40,124 --> 00:16:43,127 The upcoming Wolf of Wall Street was to be shown in schools. 277 00:16:43,210 --> 00:16:45,921 I started to go through the launch pictures, 278 00:16:46,422 --> 00:16:50,342 {\an8}and then there was Najib's stepson, Riza Aziz, the producer, 279 00:16:50,426 --> 00:16:53,262 {\an8}and next to him, always, Jho Low. 280 00:16:53,345 --> 00:16:57,016 Riz and Jho, thank you for being not only collaborators 281 00:16:57,099 --> 00:16:59,977 but taking a risk on this movie, truly. 282 00:17:01,729 --> 00:17:04,523 That was just a electric moment 283 00:17:04,606 --> 00:17:08,027 because it was there in plain sight what was going on. 284 00:17:09,486 --> 00:17:12,740 Paris Hilton began hanging out with Jho Low, 285 00:17:12,823 --> 00:17:17,578 and he flew her via private jet to Whistler in Canada 286 00:17:17,661 --> 00:17:20,330 for this opulent ski vacation. 287 00:17:20,414 --> 00:17:23,751 Joey McFarland came along with Paris Hilton. 288 00:17:24,293 --> 00:17:26,378 Riza Aziz was there too, 289 00:17:26,462 --> 00:17:30,507 and this is the first time that Joey and Riza had met. 290 00:17:31,008 --> 00:17:34,178 {\an8}Riza was a movie buff, supposedly. 291 00:17:34,261 --> 00:17:37,890 {\an8}Joey McFarland had come to LA from Kentucky, and, at one point, 292 00:17:37,973 --> 00:17:40,809 {\an8}he had become a purse carrier for Paris Hilton around town, 293 00:17:40,893 --> 00:17:44,063 {\an8}but he got connected in this whole little group, 294 00:17:44,146 --> 00:17:45,689 and that really made his career. 295 00:17:45,773 --> 00:17:48,776 I mean, he suddenly became a real producer on big films 296 00:17:48,859 --> 00:17:50,569 because he was the only one of the three, 297 00:17:50,652 --> 00:17:52,488 Jho, Riza, and Joey, 298 00:17:52,571 --> 00:17:54,948 who actually had any knowledge whatsoever 299 00:17:55,032 --> 00:17:57,951 of how films are made or what a producer might do on a film. 300 00:17:58,035 --> 00:18:00,204 So, that's how they came up with the idea 301 00:18:00,287 --> 00:18:02,331 to create their own company, Red Granite. 302 00:18:03,499 --> 00:18:07,503 Look, this was an incredibly hard film to get financed from the onset. 303 00:18:07,586 --> 00:18:10,756 I'm thankful to the people that we ran into in Red Granite 304 00:18:10,839 --> 00:18:12,174 that were willing to take a gamble 305 00:18:12,257 --> 00:18:14,927 on making a very adult American epic 306 00:18:15,010 --> 00:18:17,012 about, you know, the state of our culture. 307 00:18:17,096 --> 00:18:19,890 There is no nobility in poverty. 308 00:18:20,516 --> 00:18:23,602 I have been a rich man and I have been a poor man, 309 00:18:23,685 --> 00:18:25,646 and I'd choose rich every fucking time. 310 00:18:25,729 --> 00:18:26,730 Yeah! Right! 311 00:18:26,814 --> 00:18:29,274 Suddenly, Leo and Martin Scorsese 312 00:18:29,358 --> 00:18:32,027 thought they could fund all their slate, you know, 313 00:18:32,111 --> 00:18:34,655 using this connection, and actually, at the time, 314 00:18:34,738 --> 00:18:37,699 Jho Low told everyone that it was Abu Dhabi money 315 00:18:37,783 --> 00:18:39,409 that was backing it. 316 00:18:39,493 --> 00:18:41,203 I knew this was a massive story. 317 00:18:41,286 --> 00:18:43,789 I didn't have anything but questions. 318 00:18:43,872 --> 00:18:47,960 Sometimes, questions are everything. 319 00:18:48,043 --> 00:18:51,755 So, I asked if the hundreds of millions of dollars 320 00:18:51,839 --> 00:18:55,050 that were going into the Wolf of Wall Street production 321 00:18:55,134 --> 00:18:58,554 had any connection with the billions of dollars 322 00:18:58,637 --> 00:19:02,391 that were not being accounted for in 1MDB. 323 00:19:06,395 --> 00:19:10,858 {\an8}On the issue of 1MDB, I was the first to raise it publicly and in parliament. 324 00:19:10,941 --> 00:19:13,360 I have made a request. 325 00:19:13,443 --> 00:19:18,782 Hopefully, they will look into it and investigate accordingly. 326 00:19:18,866 --> 00:19:22,286 That led me to my imprisonment afterwards. 327 00:19:25,581 --> 00:19:29,126 This is an admission that we have no cash! 328 00:19:29,793 --> 00:19:32,963 By the end of 2013, 329 00:19:33,046 --> 00:19:38,218 that is nearly four years after 1MDB has been established, 330 00:19:38,302 --> 00:19:43,891 there were enough glaring red flags 331 00:19:44,474 --> 00:19:50,522 that tells me there's a shitload of issues 332 00:19:50,606 --> 00:19:55,027 or even scandals to be uncovered underneath 1MDB. 333 00:19:56,236 --> 00:20:00,324 What we did was we decided that we gotta go 334 00:20:00,407 --> 00:20:03,619 and look back at all their transactions, 335 00:20:03,702 --> 00:20:07,873 and our first article was actually in February of 2014. 336 00:20:07,956 --> 00:20:10,876 It was a cover story in The Edge Weekly, 337 00:20:10,959 --> 00:20:14,671 and it was simply titled "The 1MDB Story." 338 00:20:16,006 --> 00:20:18,800 Well, I, by that time, was doing what journalists do, 339 00:20:18,884 --> 00:20:20,052 asking everyone, you know. 340 00:20:20,135 --> 00:20:21,803 "Do you know anything about this 1MDB?" 341 00:20:21,887 --> 00:20:23,096 "Have you got any leads?" 342 00:20:23,180 --> 00:20:26,600 And I heard from someone that there was a guy 343 00:20:26,683 --> 00:20:30,229 who was indicating that 344 00:20:30,312 --> 00:20:35,901 he had the inside data on 1MDB, 345 00:20:35,984 --> 00:20:37,236 and he was trying to sell it, 346 00:20:38,028 --> 00:20:40,280 so I got a number for him. 347 00:20:54,002 --> 00:20:56,713 It was quite frightening, meeting with a complete stranger, 348 00:20:56,797 --> 00:20:59,800 and Bangkok's a big, dangerous city. 349 00:21:19,486 --> 00:21:22,739 {\an8}Sometimes, to make a fortune, you have to commit a crime. 350 00:21:26,076 --> 00:21:29,288 In February 2010, 351 00:21:29,371 --> 00:21:32,332 Mr. Tarek Obaid called me to offer me a job 352 00:21:32,416 --> 00:21:33,959 in PetroSaudi, London, 353 00:21:34,042 --> 00:21:36,044 and I was the number three of the company. 354 00:21:37,087 --> 00:21:39,381 You have two masterminds in PetroSaudi. 355 00:21:40,007 --> 00:21:42,801 {\an8}Tarek Obaid is a money-loving guy. 356 00:21:42,884 --> 00:21:45,429 {\an8}He wanted to live the life of a billionaire. 357 00:21:47,055 --> 00:21:48,682 {\an8}Patrick Mahony is different. 358 00:21:48,765 --> 00:21:53,395 {\an8}He wanted also money, but he was more like the deal-maker. 359 00:21:53,478 --> 00:21:56,732 He knew how to structure deals, to use offshore companies. 360 00:21:56,815 --> 00:21:59,484 They made a deal, a joint venture, 361 00:21:59,568 --> 00:22:02,946 with this Malaysian sovereign firm called 1MDB. 362 00:22:04,281 --> 00:22:06,533 For a joint venture, there are two parties. 363 00:22:06,616 --> 00:22:08,744 Each of them have to bring something. 364 00:22:08,827 --> 00:22:11,872 So, the Malaysians brought the hard cash. 365 00:22:11,955 --> 00:22:14,249 PetroSaudi's side had nothing, 366 00:22:14,333 --> 00:22:18,712 so they came up with a plan to bring in some assets, 367 00:22:18,795 --> 00:22:21,590 meaning some oil fields in Turkmenistan. 368 00:22:23,133 --> 00:22:28,138 {\an8}PetroSaudi never ever had the possession of those oil fields. 369 00:22:28,221 --> 00:22:32,184 {\an8}Ostensibly, the joint venture was capitalized by 370 00:22:32,267 --> 00:22:38,815 $1 billion from 1MDB, and then, on the PetroSaudi side, 371 00:22:38,899 --> 00:22:41,318 certain energy concession rights 372 00:22:41,401 --> 00:22:43,737 in Turkmenistan and Argentina, 373 00:22:43,820 --> 00:22:47,824 purportedly valued something like $2.7 billion. 374 00:22:49,367 --> 00:22:53,747 The Edge, an independent financial newspaper in Malaysia, 375 00:22:53,830 --> 00:22:58,502 was actively pursuing the stories with regards to 1MDB. 376 00:22:58,585 --> 00:23:01,922 We had to get some evidence to prove that we were right. 377 00:23:02,005 --> 00:23:05,175 We were under nonstop attacks against us, 378 00:23:05,258 --> 00:23:09,429 saying that we were publishing nonsense, fake news. 379 00:23:09,513 --> 00:23:11,807 Clare Rewcastle told me that 380 00:23:11,890 --> 00:23:17,771 she has obtained a possible source from PetroSaudi 381 00:23:18,855 --> 00:23:23,819 that will unravel the fraud that took place 382 00:23:23,902 --> 00:23:27,697 between the joint venture of 1MDB and PetroSaudi. 383 00:23:28,865 --> 00:23:34,371 She was looking for someone who'd be willing to fund 384 00:23:34,454 --> 00:23:36,289 the exchange of information. 385 00:23:36,373 --> 00:23:39,960 She is extremely, extremely persistent. 386 00:23:41,044 --> 00:23:44,464 The asking price was US $2 million. 387 00:23:46,007 --> 00:23:47,634 So, we then connected with Clare 388 00:23:48,260 --> 00:23:53,557 to arrange to meet her and the whistleblower in Singapore. 389 00:23:54,391 --> 00:23:56,935 It was a sort of significant day, 390 00:23:57,018 --> 00:23:59,396 because on that morning that we met, 391 00:24:00,021 --> 00:24:03,108 the opposition leader, Anwar Ibrahim, 392 00:24:03,191 --> 00:24:07,362 was taken off in a van to jail on a trumped-up case 393 00:24:07,445 --> 00:24:11,783 that was designed by Najib to hobble the opposition. 394 00:24:11,867 --> 00:24:16,163 I remember very distinctly when I walked into the lobby 395 00:24:16,246 --> 00:24:19,249 and Clare pointed out, that's the guy, 396 00:24:19,332 --> 00:24:22,961 I said to myself, "That's not a Malaysian." 397 00:24:23,044 --> 00:24:25,589 I thought it would be a Malaysian. 398 00:24:26,173 --> 00:24:29,551 He sat down and he said, "Look, I'll let you see what I've got," 399 00:24:29,634 --> 00:24:33,722 and he opened up his disc and flicked through the screen. 400 00:24:33,805 --> 00:24:35,807 Now, I'm trying to take notes. He said, "Don't take notes." 401 00:24:35,891 --> 00:24:38,476 Well, I still did, and there was this transaction, 402 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:43,148 $700 million in one transaction 403 00:24:43,231 --> 00:24:46,067 into this account, Good Star Limited, 404 00:24:46,693 --> 00:24:51,198 and I remember just thinking, "Whoa, who owns that?" 405 00:24:51,281 --> 00:24:53,325 He said, "That's Jho Low's company." 406 00:24:53,992 --> 00:24:58,121 What really happened is that 1MDB, 407 00:24:58,205 --> 00:25:02,125 instead of sending $1 billion to the joint venture, 408 00:25:02,209 --> 00:25:04,794 sent $300 million, 409 00:25:04,878 --> 00:25:07,505 and then sent the other $700 million 410 00:25:08,256 --> 00:25:11,259 to a shell company called Good Star 411 00:25:11,343 --> 00:25:12,469 that was controlled by 412 00:25:12,552 --> 00:25:14,054 none other than Mr. Jho Low. 413 00:25:14,930 --> 00:25:15,847 At that moment, 414 00:25:15,931 --> 00:25:18,558 I knew that I had a huge story 415 00:25:18,642 --> 00:25:21,019 if I could get this data off Xavier. 416 00:25:22,395 --> 00:25:25,941 I have always wondered, why did Justo agree 417 00:25:26,024 --> 00:25:29,236 to hand it over to us without money being paid? 418 00:25:31,154 --> 00:25:32,989 At the end of the day, 419 00:25:33,073 --> 00:25:35,367 there were no more question of money. 420 00:25:35,450 --> 00:25:38,078 It was just a question of doing the right thing. 421 00:25:58,682 --> 00:26:01,726 During that period, Goldman was very, very interested 422 00:26:01,810 --> 00:26:04,479 to build a business in Malaysia. 423 00:26:04,562 --> 00:26:07,399 So, when Jho did the first PetroSaudi deal, 424 00:26:07,482 --> 00:26:08,400 Goldman heard about it. 425 00:26:08,483 --> 00:26:10,402 "This is the guy that we need to know." 426 00:26:12,028 --> 00:26:13,738 Goldman Sachs played 427 00:26:14,948 --> 00:26:18,618 {\an8}the classical, stereotypical 428 00:26:18,702 --> 00:26:22,539 caricature role of the greedy banker 429 00:26:23,498 --> 00:26:27,752 that seeks only to maximize his profits 430 00:26:27,836 --> 00:26:32,090 regardless of the cost to society or the world at large. 431 00:26:32,173 --> 00:26:33,842 You can wipe those tears now, huh? 432 00:26:34,384 --> 00:26:36,553 What about cash? 433 00:26:36,636 --> 00:26:37,554 Cash, cash, cash. 434 00:26:37,637 --> 00:26:39,514 {\an8}Institutionally, at Goldman Sachs, 435 00:26:39,597 --> 00:26:41,182 {\an8}"bad for the client" isn't a phrase. 436 00:26:41,266 --> 00:26:44,352 All right, we have a 24 bid now for 12 and 13. 437 00:26:44,436 --> 00:26:47,814 Institutionally, at Goldman Sachs, it's, "Is it good for Goldman?" 438 00:26:47,897 --> 00:26:51,776 {\an8}Well, we wanted the funds for 1MDB, 439 00:26:51,860 --> 00:26:54,571 {\an8}and, as you know, we were rather, 440 00:26:54,654 --> 00:26:57,657 you know, in a way, seduced by the name of Goldman Sachs. 441 00:26:57,741 --> 00:27:00,452 You think Goldman Sachs is the, you know, 442 00:27:00,535 --> 00:27:03,496 the gold standard of investment banks. 443 00:27:03,580 --> 00:27:08,251 You would never imagine that they would do something nefarious 444 00:27:08,335 --> 00:27:12,172 or something illicit or something unethical. 445 00:27:25,685 --> 00:27:28,730 {\an8}Andrea Vella was the brains behind structuring deals. 446 00:27:29,356 --> 00:27:32,067 {\an8}Vella had this history of arranging deals 447 00:27:32,150 --> 00:27:34,444 {\an8}that could sound good in a presentation, 448 00:27:34,527 --> 00:27:36,946 but, in reality, they were geared towards 449 00:27:37,030 --> 00:27:38,782 making Goldman Sachs a lot of money, 450 00:27:38,865 --> 00:27:41,076 sometimes at the downside of the client. 451 00:27:42,869 --> 00:27:44,537 I met Andrea Vella 452 00:27:44,621 --> 00:27:49,292 {\an8}for the first time during my time at Goldman, 453 00:27:49,376 --> 00:27:52,879 working with the Libyan Investment Authority. 454 00:27:52,962 --> 00:27:55,548 I became very concerned. 455 00:27:55,632 --> 00:27:59,177 There was a high probability for Libya 456 00:27:59,260 --> 00:28:02,180 to lose the full value of the investment. 457 00:28:02,263 --> 00:28:05,850 I decided to write an internal email 458 00:28:05,934 --> 00:28:08,103 to highlight why I was worried. 459 00:28:08,186 --> 00:28:13,858 The reaction that I received was swift and extreme, 460 00:28:13,942 --> 00:28:17,529 and I knew straight away that I would be losing my job. 461 00:28:19,239 --> 00:28:21,741 As I had anticipated, 462 00:28:21,825 --> 00:28:27,997 the value of all these trades went down to zero. 463 00:28:31,668 --> 00:28:33,294 So, after the Libyan Investment Authority, 464 00:28:33,378 --> 00:28:35,588 Andrea Vella went to Asia, 465 00:28:35,672 --> 00:28:37,715 and that's where he got hooked up with Tim Leissner. 466 00:28:37,799 --> 00:28:39,551 {\an8}Leissner was more of a salesman. 467 00:28:41,886 --> 00:28:42,971 {\an8}He's a relationship guy 468 00:28:43,054 --> 00:28:45,515 {\an8}that's friends with all these billionaires and tycoons. 469 00:28:45,598 --> 00:28:47,684 That's how he got to be what he is. 470 00:28:48,601 --> 00:28:50,395 One thing that stood out right away 471 00:28:50,478 --> 00:28:52,522 was that he called himself Doctor Tim Leissner. 472 00:28:54,524 --> 00:28:56,443 {\an8}So, I discovered that, actually, 473 00:28:56,526 --> 00:29:01,239 {\an8}this doctorate was issued by an Indian business 474 00:29:01,322 --> 00:29:05,577 that had an office above a pizza shop in east London. 475 00:29:07,287 --> 00:29:08,747 How could he imagine that 476 00:29:08,830 --> 00:29:11,291 that would never be found out by someone? 477 00:29:11,958 --> 00:29:14,878 The other thing we found out was, he was really connected in Malaysia 478 00:29:14,961 --> 00:29:17,505 to some of these other major business people 479 00:29:17,589 --> 00:29:19,382 in a way that also raised more questions. 480 00:29:21,050 --> 00:29:22,927 I'd picked up on two names. 481 00:29:23,011 --> 00:29:26,723 There was Roger Ng, who had come from Deutsche Bank, 482 00:29:26,806 --> 00:29:30,977 and with all his political connections, came over to Goldman Sachs, 483 00:29:31,060 --> 00:29:33,646 and was known to be working hand-in-glove 484 00:29:33,730 --> 00:29:37,942 with this bright star party guy, Tim Leissner. 485 00:29:39,194 --> 00:29:41,279 So, Roger and Tim Leissner 486 00:29:42,322 --> 00:29:46,451 went out of their way to be introduced to Jho Low. 487 00:29:46,534 --> 00:29:49,788 Then they said that, "Look, the next few deals of 1MDB, 488 00:29:49,871 --> 00:29:53,333 Goldman Sachs better be the investment banker." 489 00:29:58,755 --> 00:30:04,344 Goldman is the 400-pound gorilla of Wall Street. 490 00:30:04,427 --> 00:30:06,262 It is one of the most storied 491 00:30:06,346 --> 00:30:08,431 and powerful banks in the world. 492 00:30:08,515 --> 00:30:10,225 They are an investment bank. 493 00:30:10,308 --> 00:30:12,352 They make their money by 494 00:30:12,435 --> 00:30:15,480 {\an8}advising clients on financial transactions, 495 00:30:15,563 --> 00:30:17,982 everything from a merger and an acquisition 496 00:30:18,066 --> 00:30:19,150 to raising capital, 497 00:30:19,234 --> 00:30:21,778 and then to buying and selling securities 498 00:30:21,861 --> 00:30:23,905 on behalf of other investors. 499 00:30:27,242 --> 00:30:30,370 Thank you for the invitation to appear before you today 500 00:30:30,453 --> 00:30:32,997 {\an8}as you examine some of the causes and consequences 501 00:30:33,081 --> 00:30:34,123 {\an8}of the financial crisis. 502 00:30:34,958 --> 00:30:37,794 To be betting against the very securities 503 00:30:37,877 --> 00:30:40,380 which you're selling to your clients, 504 00:30:40,463 --> 00:30:44,717 and, internally, your own people believe 505 00:30:44,801 --> 00:30:48,221 that these are crappy securities. 506 00:30:49,055 --> 00:30:51,599 The bad news, in your own words, 507 00:30:51,683 --> 00:30:54,894 was that your clients lose money, 508 00:30:54,978 --> 00:30:58,565 but the good news is that Goldman Sachs made money. 509 00:30:58,648 --> 00:31:00,358 Obviously, very disconcerting. We're a company. 510 00:31:00,441 --> 00:31:01,985 But you still got fined, I mean. 511 00:31:02,068 --> 00:31:04,571 Well, we got fined, but, you know, everybody got fined, 512 00:31:04,654 --> 00:31:06,406 and we got fined for, yeah. 513 00:31:14,497 --> 00:31:17,208 To my knowledge, none of the directors lost their jobs. 514 00:31:17,792 --> 00:31:20,253 It was sort of a reset and on we go. 515 00:31:20,336 --> 00:31:23,089 "Sorry about that. We promise we won't do it again." 516 00:31:23,172 --> 00:31:25,592 After the financial crisis, they went around the world, 517 00:31:25,675 --> 00:31:28,761 looking for other, essentially, rubes to take advantage of 518 00:31:28,845 --> 00:31:31,389 because they had already done it with the American people, 519 00:31:31,472 --> 00:31:34,017 and now they were looking for other people to do bad deals with. 520 00:31:35,768 --> 00:31:37,145 They wanted to do 521 00:31:37,228 --> 00:31:40,189 sovereign wealth transactions for Malaysia, 522 00:31:40,273 --> 00:31:42,859 but Malaysia, as a developing country, 523 00:31:42,942 --> 00:31:46,404 didn't have the financial wherewithal to do it. 524 00:31:46,487 --> 00:31:47,447 They needed to borrow money 525 00:31:47,530 --> 00:31:50,617 from all the deep pools of money in the world, 526 00:31:50,700 --> 00:31:54,454 so what they did was a huge round of bond offerings. 527 00:31:54,537 --> 00:31:56,706 These looked good because they were issued by Malaysia. 528 00:31:56,789 --> 00:31:58,124 {\an8}They were backed by Abu Dhabi, 529 00:31:58,207 --> 00:31:59,751 {\an8}so there's two sovereign nations 530 00:31:59,834 --> 00:32:01,711 {\an8}with a lot of money behind these. 531 00:32:01,794 --> 00:32:04,964 {\an8}Goldman Sachs underwrote three different bond issuances 532 00:32:05,048 --> 00:32:08,217 {\an8}in the total amount of $6.5 billion. 533 00:32:10,178 --> 00:32:12,931 1MDB was willing to pay a premium 534 00:32:13,014 --> 00:32:15,183 to have a more confidential 535 00:32:15,266 --> 00:32:18,394 and quicker series of bond issuances, 536 00:32:18,478 --> 00:32:21,147 and they did that without really having to show 537 00:32:21,230 --> 00:32:23,524 where the bond proceeds were gonna go. 538 00:32:24,817 --> 00:32:27,987 Goldman Sachs funded the bond transaction, 539 00:32:28,071 --> 00:32:30,698 and then they got to sell it to investors after the fact. 540 00:32:30,782 --> 00:32:34,160 These were government deals with these massive projects, 541 00:32:34,243 --> 00:32:38,623 power and energy plants, roads, hospitals, bridges, 542 00:32:38,706 --> 00:32:41,334 the kind of thing that Malaysia desperately needed. 543 00:32:42,502 --> 00:32:43,878 Our entire industry 544 00:32:43,962 --> 00:32:46,172 was built on the back of issuing bonds. 545 00:32:46,255 --> 00:32:50,927 It's a way to capitalize an economic enterprise upfront. 546 00:32:51,010 --> 00:32:53,221 These bonds were different than that. 547 00:32:53,304 --> 00:32:56,307 One of the things about the Goldman Sachs role that stood out 548 00:32:56,391 --> 00:32:58,726 was how much money they had made on these bonds. 549 00:32:58,810 --> 00:33:00,478 Typically, when you arrange a bond 550 00:33:00,561 --> 00:33:02,605 for a company or especially a country, 551 00:33:02,689 --> 00:33:05,900 the profits aren't huge because it's really safe debt. 552 00:33:05,984 --> 00:33:09,195 You know, it's backed by a country, and so, typically, 553 00:33:09,278 --> 00:33:12,991 you could make 1%, but in this deal, they made about 10%, 554 00:33:13,074 --> 00:33:15,410 which is just an insane amount of money to be making. 555 00:33:15,493 --> 00:33:18,121 You would never do that deal if you could help it. 556 00:33:18,204 --> 00:33:20,707 They should have made something closer to $60 million. 557 00:33:20,790 --> 00:33:22,792 They made $600 million instead. 558 00:33:22,875 --> 00:33:24,752 So we covered it. Like, it's the news, right? 559 00:33:24,836 --> 00:33:30,883 We wanted to find out, why did 1MDB pay Goldman such huge fees? 560 00:33:31,634 --> 00:33:33,594 And I remember we did a series of articles 561 00:33:33,678 --> 00:33:35,388 and Goldman actually got a bit worried. 562 00:33:35,471 --> 00:33:37,223 We had a conference call with Goldman Sachs, 563 00:33:37,306 --> 00:33:38,307 out of Hong Kong, 564 00:33:38,391 --> 00:33:42,395 where they keep on saying that nothing wrong. 565 00:33:42,478 --> 00:33:45,231 All the deals were kosher. No commission was paid. 566 00:33:45,314 --> 00:33:47,150 No brokerage fee was paid to anybody. 567 00:33:47,692 --> 00:33:51,362 Because the profit made in the Libya deals 568 00:33:51,446 --> 00:33:53,448 and in the Malaysia deals 569 00:33:53,531 --> 00:33:58,077 were in the magnitude of hundreds of millions of dollars, 570 00:33:58,161 --> 00:34:01,998 which was quite significant by Goldman standards, 571 00:34:02,623 --> 00:34:07,336 then the good news of how much money was made 572 00:34:07,420 --> 00:34:12,842 would have traveled right to the top of the organization. 573 00:34:15,261 --> 00:34:18,097 The fact that it was 10% that they made, 574 00:34:18,181 --> 00:34:20,099 that alone, you don't need to know anything else, 575 00:34:20,183 --> 00:34:22,727 and there's no way Lloyd Blankfein didn't know that. 576 00:34:22,810 --> 00:34:25,772 You needed the investment bankers to be on board, 577 00:34:25,855 --> 00:34:27,690 {\an8}'cause they're the ones who are gonna structure it. 578 00:34:27,774 --> 00:34:29,776 {\an8}They're the ones who know how to underwrite the bonds. 579 00:34:29,859 --> 00:34:31,486 {\an8}They're the ones who know how to price it. 580 00:34:31,569 --> 00:34:35,114 {\an8}They're the technocrats who are gonna come in and actually execute, 581 00:34:35,198 --> 00:34:40,369 and they found two bankers, Tim Leissner and Roger Ng, 582 00:34:40,453 --> 00:34:42,789 that were willing to play ball with them. 583 00:34:42,872 --> 00:34:44,290 This deal could not have been done 584 00:34:44,373 --> 00:34:48,377 without the highest in Goldman knowing about it. 585 00:34:48,461 --> 00:34:50,713 We now know what happened to the money. 586 00:34:50,797 --> 00:34:52,882 They actually stole most of it. 587 00:34:52,965 --> 00:34:55,468 I mean, it's absolutely crazy. 588 00:34:55,551 --> 00:34:56,636 These guys are nuts. 589 00:35:13,569 --> 00:35:15,613 A very good friend of mine in the FBI 590 00:35:15,696 --> 00:35:18,616 {\an8}was our legal attaché in Kuala Lumpur. 591 00:35:19,826 --> 00:35:23,454 He is a Malaysian American 592 00:35:23,538 --> 00:35:25,832 who spent multiple tours in Malaysia 593 00:35:25,915 --> 00:35:28,501 and was extremely well-connected 594 00:35:28,584 --> 00:35:31,838 to all their major law enforcement entities 595 00:35:31,921 --> 00:35:33,965 and his assistant legal attaché, 596 00:35:34,048 --> 00:35:37,677 who was another extremely competent FBI agent. 597 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,721 There's nobody who knew Malaysia better. 598 00:35:40,805 --> 00:35:44,642 His knowledge and reputation was unparalleled. 599 00:35:47,019 --> 00:35:48,229 I was one of the first 600 00:35:48,312 --> 00:35:51,440 {\an8}to staff the FBI legal attaché office in Malaysia. 601 00:35:51,983 --> 00:35:55,278 So, my dad came out to Malaysia in 1959 602 00:35:55,361 --> 00:35:58,865 and met my mom, who is a local Malaysian. 603 00:35:58,948 --> 00:36:02,201 I was born here in Malaysia and lived here 604 00:36:02,285 --> 00:36:07,081 a good part of my childhood and formative years 605 00:36:07,165 --> 00:36:10,877 before returning to the US in the early '80s. 606 00:36:12,879 --> 00:36:15,089 The first time I heard about 1MDB 607 00:36:15,173 --> 00:36:18,467 was probably around 2014 or '15. 608 00:36:18,551 --> 00:36:21,846 As we started to get information about 609 00:36:21,929 --> 00:36:28,227 {\an8}this purported fraud that had transpired through Jho Low's collaboration 610 00:36:28,311 --> 00:36:30,104 with Prime Minister Najib, 611 00:36:30,188 --> 00:36:35,151 there was this attempt to funnel money 612 00:36:35,234 --> 00:36:39,947 out of this 1MDB sovereign wealth fund, 613 00:36:40,031 --> 00:36:44,619 and that money was not going to where it was supposed to go. 614 00:36:46,329 --> 00:36:48,414 Probably around February, March 2015, 615 00:36:48,497 --> 00:36:52,376 {\an8}Chuck called me up on a Sunday and he said, 616 00:36:52,460 --> 00:36:55,296 {\an8}"Hey, you wanna go to Attorney General Gani's house?" 617 00:36:55,379 --> 00:36:56,756 {\an8}Chuck had just come back 618 00:36:56,839 --> 00:36:59,508 {\an8}from Washington, D.C. with Attorney General Patail, 619 00:36:59,592 --> 00:37:01,969 {\an8}and they had met with Director Comey, 620 00:37:02,053 --> 00:37:04,931 {\an8}and, yeah, the subject of 1MDB came up. 621 00:37:06,307 --> 00:37:10,853 Gani point-blank asked us, 622 00:37:10,937 --> 00:37:14,690 "Hey, you guys are hearing these allegations that are out there. 623 00:37:15,608 --> 00:37:18,861 Do you believe there's any validity to them?" 624 00:37:18,945 --> 00:37:22,281 He had asked the prime minister 625 00:37:22,365 --> 00:37:26,744 if there was any validity to these allegations 626 00:37:27,620 --> 00:37:30,164 and was told no. 627 00:37:31,415 --> 00:37:35,586 The fact that that was the first real inquiry 628 00:37:35,670 --> 00:37:37,630 from the Malaysian government 629 00:37:37,713 --> 00:37:39,173 was significant to me, 630 00:37:39,882 --> 00:37:42,885 and that probably is what spurred Dave and I 631 00:37:42,969 --> 00:37:46,055 to continue to send information back. 632 00:37:48,099 --> 00:37:51,811 June 2015, I was made aware that 633 00:37:51,894 --> 00:37:57,066 the various investigations into 1MDB had established that 634 00:37:57,149 --> 00:38:00,278 two days after the third Goldman Sachs bond deal, 635 00:38:00,361 --> 00:38:05,032 $681 million had arrived 636 00:38:05,116 --> 00:38:08,119 into Najib's personal bank account. 637 00:38:08,869 --> 00:38:11,497 That was when The Wall Street Journal got into the story. 638 00:38:12,873 --> 00:38:14,959 The Journal was putting itself on the line, 639 00:38:15,042 --> 00:38:17,878 because when we were writing that story, Boies Schiller, 640 00:38:17,962 --> 00:38:20,506 the same firm that represented Harvey Weinstein, 641 00:38:20,589 --> 00:38:21,716 were telling us, you know, 642 00:38:21,799 --> 00:38:25,261 "You could be at very serious risk of defamation. 643 00:38:25,344 --> 00:38:26,971 Najib has done nothing wrong." 644 00:38:29,098 --> 00:38:30,975 There's a lot of pressure on us to answer the questions. 645 00:38:31,058 --> 00:38:32,476 To solve the case. 646 00:38:33,311 --> 00:38:37,690 When I got the data on Najib's own bank accounts 647 00:38:37,773 --> 00:38:41,360 and I gave that to other mainstream media, 648 00:38:41,444 --> 00:38:43,321 that turned the tide on the story. 649 00:38:46,991 --> 00:38:48,951 This was the smoking gun. 650 00:38:57,209 --> 00:38:59,503 $681 million went into Najib's account. 651 00:39:00,463 --> 00:39:02,256 It's not often that a prime minister 652 00:39:02,340 --> 00:39:06,302 gets $681 million transferred into his account, 653 00:39:06,385 --> 00:39:08,512 so that was a dynamite story. 654 00:39:26,238 --> 00:39:30,117 There were massive protests going on in Kuala Lumpur. 655 00:39:33,412 --> 00:39:35,456 {\an8}They were called the Bersih Protests. 656 00:39:35,539 --> 00:39:40,211 {\an8}The 1MalaysiaDB, the $2.6 billion. Where's the answer? 657 00:39:40,294 --> 00:39:43,881 We want the answer. We need a clean government. 658 00:39:43,964 --> 00:39:46,550 The streets in Kuala Lumpur were just packed. 659 00:39:46,634 --> 00:39:50,638 {\an8}When Najib claimed that the $681 million 660 00:39:50,721 --> 00:39:53,099 {\an8}that suddenly showed up in his bank account 661 00:39:53,182 --> 00:39:56,102 {\an8}was a gift from a Saudi prince, 662 00:39:56,185 --> 00:39:58,604 it's very hard to suppress your laughter. 663 00:39:58,687 --> 00:40:00,731 Let's put it that way. 664 00:40:00,815 --> 00:40:05,861 Who in their right mind would give you $681 million 665 00:40:05,945 --> 00:40:08,489 into your personal private bank account 666 00:40:08,572 --> 00:40:10,116 with no strings attached? 667 00:40:10,199 --> 00:40:13,702 I was shocked at kind of how brazen that was. 668 00:40:13,786 --> 00:40:18,541 {\an8}It was pretty obvious that this was related to 1MDB. 669 00:40:18,624 --> 00:40:21,585 My stories had the main effect of 670 00:40:21,669 --> 00:40:24,964 unleashing domestic investigations in Malaysia. 671 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:28,384 The financial intelligence unit here said, 672 00:40:28,467 --> 00:40:30,970 "Will you help us on this case?" 673 00:40:31,053 --> 00:40:34,598 And I was like, "Sure," you know, "Whatever we can do." 674 00:40:35,307 --> 00:40:38,853 Najib had reluctantly allowed these to go into operation 675 00:40:38,936 --> 00:40:40,271 until those investigations 676 00:40:40,354 --> 00:40:44,400 started to deliver some extremely interesting information. 677 00:40:44,483 --> 00:40:48,904 Clearly, this fraud had touched on US territory, 678 00:40:48,988 --> 00:40:52,158 making it under FBI jurisdiction to investigate. 679 00:40:52,241 --> 00:40:54,452 All roads and the allegations 680 00:40:54,535 --> 00:40:58,164 led back to the prime minister, Dato' Sri Najib, 681 00:40:58,247 --> 00:41:04,920 in collaboration with Jho Low, mastermind of the fraud. 682 00:41:05,713 --> 00:41:08,549 That was the one and only meeting of that little task force. 683 00:41:09,049 --> 00:41:11,802 A couple of weeks later was Night of the Long Knives. 684 00:41:15,431 --> 00:41:17,558 At that time, there were a lot of rumors 685 00:41:17,641 --> 00:41:20,728 that they were gonna arrest and charge Najib. 686 00:41:20,811 --> 00:41:25,191 I received an anonymously sent document. 687 00:41:25,274 --> 00:41:28,194 It was the arrest warrant for Najib Razak. 688 00:41:29,069 --> 00:41:32,114 So, I bit the bullet and I published it. 689 00:41:33,449 --> 00:41:36,702 And that was when everything went wild. 690 00:41:36,785 --> 00:41:39,371 Malaysian police raided the attorney general's office, 691 00:41:39,455 --> 00:41:40,456 took him into custody, 692 00:41:40,539 --> 00:41:42,541 and disbanded that special task force, 693 00:41:42,625 --> 00:41:45,127 and even took away some of their case files. 694 00:41:45,711 --> 00:41:48,214 I arrived that day and the elevator opened, 695 00:41:48,297 --> 00:41:50,132 and it was pandemonium. 696 00:41:50,216 --> 00:41:51,550 I mean, people everywhere, 697 00:41:51,634 --> 00:41:53,260 and then I went back to the embassy 698 00:41:53,344 --> 00:41:56,722 and subsequently heard that Gani had been retired. 699 00:41:58,641 --> 00:42:00,392 That was the end of that task force 700 00:42:00,476 --> 00:42:03,062 and the end of our overt cooperation. 701 00:42:04,730 --> 00:42:09,109 He removed the attorney general and he suspended The Edge. 702 00:42:09,193 --> 00:42:10,569 We are very disappointed 703 00:42:10,653 --> 00:42:12,321 with the decision of the KDN. 704 00:42:12,404 --> 00:42:13,697 What is their motivation? 705 00:42:13,781 --> 00:42:17,743 That's something for them, for other people, to answer. 706 00:42:17,826 --> 00:42:20,663 I have the honor of being the person 707 00:42:20,746 --> 00:42:25,125 most litigated against by the sitting prime minister. 708 00:42:27,127 --> 00:42:31,465 The Malaysians had true institutions that were doing their job. 709 00:42:31,549 --> 00:42:35,803 Najib decided to sever that independence, 710 00:42:35,886 --> 00:42:39,390 so all the institutions that should have been able to act as a check and balance 711 00:42:39,473 --> 00:42:40,933 were immediately destroyed. 712 00:42:48,774 --> 00:42:51,902 The young lawyer in the attorney general's office 713 00:42:51,986 --> 00:42:54,780 who had drafted that arrest warrant 714 00:42:55,698 --> 00:43:00,536 was pulled from his car on the way to work in the middle of KL. 715 00:43:00,619 --> 00:43:01,787 Disappeared. 716 00:43:05,958 --> 00:43:09,336 The police is urging anyone with information on an accident 717 00:43:09,420 --> 00:43:11,005 at Jalan Dutamas, Kuala Lumpur, 718 00:43:11,088 --> 00:43:13,924 on the 4th of September at about 7:51 in the morning 719 00:43:14,008 --> 00:43:15,301 to come forward. 720 00:43:16,885 --> 00:43:19,638 {\an8}Sir, is Morais still a missing person? There are some reports... 721 00:43:20,723 --> 00:43:25,561 A car resembling his was found right here. 722 00:43:25,644 --> 00:43:29,356 The whole area was strewn with melted items from the car, 723 00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:33,152 a possible indication of how big the fire was. 724 00:43:39,074 --> 00:43:43,454 He was found murdered, his body in an oil drum. 725 00:43:44,496 --> 00:43:48,292 It succeeded in terrifying everyone. 726 00:43:48,375 --> 00:43:53,672 Every white-collar bureaucrat in Malaysia got the message. 727 00:43:53,756 --> 00:43:57,092 You move against Najib and that's what's gonna happen to you. 728 00:44:03,766 --> 00:44:05,517 In June 2015, 729 00:44:05,601 --> 00:44:09,647 {\an8}there was a bunch of police that came to my house and arrested me. 730 00:44:14,443 --> 00:44:16,445 It's still very fresh in my memory. 731 00:44:19,990 --> 00:44:21,867 In a couple of seconds, I was arrested, 732 00:44:21,950 --> 00:44:24,119 thrown into the house, handcuffed, 733 00:44:24,203 --> 00:44:26,955 and that's where the nightmares started. 734 00:44:27,748 --> 00:44:30,793 Clearly, this was orchestrated by Najib and Jho Low 735 00:44:30,876 --> 00:44:32,795 and their contacts in Thailand. 736 00:44:32,878 --> 00:44:36,590 Xavier was horrifyingly thrown into jail. 737 00:44:36,674 --> 00:44:38,676 He was treated like a terrorist. 738 00:44:38,759 --> 00:44:41,804 He was then forced to sign a confession. 739 00:44:42,346 --> 00:44:46,350 {\an8}PetroSaudi, mainly Patrick Mahony, 740 00:44:46,433 --> 00:44:50,479 were threatening my wife, saying I will probably disappear 741 00:44:50,562 --> 00:44:51,522 and she will be arrested 742 00:44:51,605 --> 00:44:53,732 and my son will end up in the Thai orphanage. 743 00:44:53,816 --> 00:44:55,609 I had no options. 744 00:44:55,692 --> 00:44:58,737 I mean, it's either that and you die, 745 00:44:58,821 --> 00:45:00,030 or you do whatever they want. 746 00:45:00,114 --> 00:45:02,241 So, I choose the only option I had. 747 00:45:02,324 --> 00:45:05,244 So, yes, "Give me the paper. I will sign whatever you want." 748 00:45:05,327 --> 00:45:07,996 "Want me to confess that I killed Kennedy? I will confess it." 749 00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:10,457 "I just want to end this nightmare." 750 00:45:13,419 --> 00:45:16,296 The story that they wanted is that I stole the data. 751 00:45:20,592 --> 00:45:21,593 I discovered later why. 752 00:45:21,677 --> 00:45:23,595 Because by stealing the data, 753 00:45:23,679 --> 00:45:25,222 they wanted to have that 754 00:45:25,305 --> 00:45:28,183 not receivable in a court of justice. 755 00:45:28,267 --> 00:45:31,061 They wanted me to say that I cooperated 756 00:45:31,145 --> 00:45:34,231 with the journalist Clare Rewcastle Brown and The Edge 757 00:45:34,773 --> 00:45:38,068 in order to overthrow a legit government, 758 00:45:38,152 --> 00:45:40,904 that we tampered with the data, 759 00:45:41,947 --> 00:45:43,991 and that's what I wrote. 760 00:45:45,534 --> 00:45:48,871 I spent 547 days in jail. 761 00:46:00,674 --> 00:46:01,675 Sorry. 762 00:46:02,342 --> 00:46:03,427 Some emotions. 763 00:46:05,429 --> 00:46:07,973 You have moments in your life that you will never forget, 764 00:46:09,016 --> 00:46:11,602 and this is one of the moments I will never forget. 765 00:46:16,565 --> 00:46:20,652 I was branded an enemy of Malaysia by Najib. 766 00:46:20,736 --> 00:46:23,155 A request was made to Interpol by Malaysia 767 00:46:23,238 --> 00:46:26,408 to put me on their red notice list 768 00:46:26,492 --> 00:46:29,953 to be arrested at any point as a terrorist 769 00:46:30,037 --> 00:46:33,874 for activities detrimental to democracy, as they put it. 770 00:46:33,957 --> 00:46:39,254 Unfortunately, in this part of the world, corruption is a part of everyday life. 771 00:46:39,338 --> 00:46:40,881 I think, at the end of the day, 772 00:46:40,964 --> 00:46:43,717 you're surprised at the massive scope of the corruption, 773 00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:48,555 but not that he was engaged in corrupt practices. 774 00:46:50,641 --> 00:46:55,437 Malaysia was always an autocratic regime with a velvet glove. 775 00:46:56,021 --> 00:46:58,941 At this point, Najib took off the velvet glove. 776 00:46:59,024 --> 00:47:00,234 He was desperate. 777 00:47:00,317 --> 00:47:03,153 We were reaching the end game 778 00:47:03,237 --> 00:47:06,615 and he was struggling to survive. 779 00:47:06,698 --> 00:47:10,577 You know, a major shake-up in the Malaysian government 780 00:47:10,661 --> 00:47:16,333 based primarily on a US investigation was extremely tense, 781 00:47:16,416 --> 00:47:19,294 and there was a lot of pressure being applied 782 00:47:19,378 --> 00:47:21,713 on people in the embassy to just 783 00:47:23,048 --> 00:47:26,385 go away, you know, and stop investigating this. 784 00:47:27,594 --> 00:47:30,055 The events following the Night of Long Knives 785 00:47:30,138 --> 00:47:34,059 changed the atmosphere in Malaysia. 786 00:47:34,142 --> 00:47:39,356 What that was designed to do was send a clear message, 787 00:47:39,439 --> 00:47:43,860 and that objective was achieved. 788 00:47:44,778 --> 00:47:47,406 To me, anyone that believes in 789 00:47:47,489 --> 00:47:50,826 a democratic system of government 790 00:47:50,909 --> 00:47:53,161 should be absolutely appalled by 791 00:47:53,245 --> 00:47:54,913 the firing of your attorney general 792 00:47:54,997 --> 00:47:57,374 and the dismantling of your anti-corruption commission, 793 00:47:57,457 --> 00:48:00,586 and, yeah, I think it did make our team 794 00:48:00,669 --> 00:48:02,629 just double down all that much more. 795 00:48:02,713 --> 00:48:06,049 Say, you know, if we don't do it, who will? 796 00:48:08,552 --> 00:48:11,263 Now, our strategy changes to, 797 00:48:11,346 --> 00:48:14,600 we have our own investigation. 798 00:48:14,683 --> 00:48:17,394 We're trying to enlist assistance from the Malaysians 799 00:48:17,477 --> 00:48:19,062 to support our investigation. 800 00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:22,482 Chuck and I both agreed that 801 00:48:22,566 --> 00:48:25,694 we were going to continue to do what we could, 802 00:48:25,777 --> 00:48:27,904 but it would be much more covert. 803 00:48:27,988 --> 00:48:30,949 We'd have to watch what we did and who we spoke with. 804 00:48:34,286 --> 00:48:35,829 Did someone leak to you 805 00:48:35,912 --> 00:48:37,164 the warrant for your arrest 806 00:48:37,247 --> 00:48:39,499 before the Night of the Long Knives? 807 00:48:39,583 --> 00:48:42,169 Uh, yes. There were leaks. 808 00:48:42,252 --> 00:48:45,631 There were leaks, but, you know, 809 00:48:45,714 --> 00:48:48,592 such things are hard to keep a lid on it. 810 00:48:48,675 --> 00:48:50,636 There are too many people involved in it. 811 00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:52,387 So, just to reassert this, 812 00:48:52,471 --> 00:48:55,515 you knew that there was a pending... 813 00:48:55,599 --> 00:48:57,351 There could have been. There could have been. 814 00:48:57,434 --> 00:48:59,478 I didn't know for sure. There could have been. 815 00:48:59,561 --> 00:49:01,521 But you had a strong suspicion. 816 00:49:01,605 --> 00:49:04,066 I was given the transcript, yes. 817 00:49:13,825 --> 00:49:15,494 I'm excited to be here. 818 00:49:15,577 --> 00:49:18,121 It surprised me the extent to which 819 00:49:18,205 --> 00:49:22,376 Mr. Low was able to establish himself very quickly, 820 00:49:22,459 --> 00:49:24,252 being a young man, 821 00:49:24,336 --> 00:49:26,463 as a mover and a shaker coming from nowhere. 822 00:49:26,546 --> 00:49:28,632 The Low family has been involved in philanthropy 823 00:49:28,715 --> 00:49:29,841 for the past 70 years. 824 00:49:29,925 --> 00:49:32,010 Jho Low was trying to create 825 00:49:32,094 --> 00:49:34,096 a fictional backstory for himself 826 00:49:34,179 --> 00:49:36,056 that justified having all this money. 827 00:49:36,556 --> 00:49:38,266 We decided as the third generation 828 00:49:38,350 --> 00:49:39,810 to institutionalize this effort. 829 00:49:39,893 --> 00:49:41,728 He was trying to rebrand himself 830 00:49:41,812 --> 00:49:45,691 as the actual secret heir of a billionaire fortune. 831 00:49:46,233 --> 00:49:48,360 Step one. We dig deep. 832 00:49:48,443 --> 00:49:51,446 Like a lot of lower-level criminals, 833 00:49:51,530 --> 00:49:53,865 they don't have a long-term plan, 834 00:49:53,949 --> 00:49:56,993 and he kind of fit that mold, 835 00:49:57,077 --> 00:49:59,162 except he was able to inject himself 836 00:49:59,246 --> 00:50:03,500 into this top 0.001% of the world. 837 00:50:04,334 --> 00:50:06,586 Step two. Collaborative design. 838 00:50:06,670 --> 00:50:10,882 {\an8}There's at least one email where Otaiba is exchanging concerns 839 00:50:10,966 --> 00:50:12,968 {\an8}with an Emirati colleague of his, 840 00:50:13,051 --> 00:50:14,803 {\an8}saying, "What is Jho Low doing?" 841 00:50:15,512 --> 00:50:18,140 Step three. We think very long-term. 842 00:50:18,223 --> 00:50:20,475 They were saying, "Jho, can you please calm down? 843 00:50:20,559 --> 00:50:22,436 Like, stop, you know, spending like a million dollars 844 00:50:22,519 --> 00:50:23,854 and saying, 'Malaysia in the house.'" 845 00:50:23,937 --> 00:50:27,399 Malaysia in the house! 846 00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:30,444 Step four. We invest big. 847 00:50:30,527 --> 00:50:32,654 He's starting to become a story himself 848 00:50:32,738 --> 00:50:36,616 because of this, his flamboyant partying around the world, 849 00:50:36,700 --> 00:50:39,828 and so there was a real concern that, 850 00:50:39,911 --> 00:50:42,956 who have we gotten ourselves in bed with here? 851 00:50:43,039 --> 00:50:46,585 And is this going to end the way we're worried it might end? 852 00:50:46,668 --> 00:50:49,504 And lastly, step five, we measure to grow. 853 00:50:49,588 --> 00:50:51,673 He was putting heat on himself. 854 00:50:52,299 --> 00:50:55,469 People like Leissner, people like Yousef Al Otaiba, 855 00:50:55,552 --> 00:50:58,054 all of them were saying, "Jho, take a lower profile." 856 00:50:58,138 --> 00:51:01,308 They were basically trying to teach him how to do these shady deals, 857 00:51:01,391 --> 00:51:03,560 which is, you do the deals, you make a lot of money, 858 00:51:03,643 --> 00:51:05,312 but you don't get a public profile. 859 00:51:05,395 --> 00:51:07,689 That's the number one rule, and he was breaking that rule. 860 00:51:07,773 --> 00:51:11,026 What's unique about Jynwell Foundation is our ability to 861 00:51:11,109 --> 00:51:13,820 cut across all borders to achieve a common vision. 862 00:51:13,904 --> 00:51:15,655 They start worrying about 863 00:51:15,739 --> 00:51:18,617 the Department of Justice's interest in Jho Low. 864 00:51:19,701 --> 00:51:23,580 Their lawyer informs him that the FBI is looking for him, 865 00:51:23,663 --> 00:51:25,373 and they say to themselves, 866 00:51:25,457 --> 00:51:27,083 "Why is the Department of Justice 867 00:51:27,167 --> 00:51:30,086 looking at a scam that originated out of Malaysia 868 00:51:30,170 --> 00:51:32,214 and may have involved the Emiratis and us? 869 00:51:32,297 --> 00:51:33,882 It doesn't have anything to do with the United States." 870 00:51:33,965 --> 00:51:35,509 And the lawyer writes back, 871 00:51:35,592 --> 00:51:38,178 "I hate to be the bearer of bad news here, 872 00:51:38,261 --> 00:51:41,515 but the Department of Justice considers itself 873 00:51:41,598 --> 00:51:44,601 to have jurisdiction over any transactions 874 00:51:44,684 --> 00:51:45,769 carried out in US dollars 875 00:51:45,852 --> 00:51:48,814 that went through, you know, US financial institutions." 876 00:51:48,897 --> 00:51:51,525 Let's all think big. Let's all be bold. 877 00:51:51,608 --> 00:51:54,236 And let's really think about our place in this world. 878 00:51:54,319 --> 00:51:56,571 You know, they say timing is everything, 879 00:51:56,655 --> 00:51:59,991 and in the 1MDB case, on multiple levels, 880 00:52:00,075 --> 00:52:03,328 I would say that timing was everything. 881 00:52:08,250 --> 00:52:11,837 There is no, ah, 882 00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:15,340 movement for changing the government. 883 00:52:15,423 --> 00:52:16,633 I don't see that. 884 00:52:16,716 --> 00:52:20,220 He was in total control again, 885 00:52:20,303 --> 00:52:22,514 just when people thought that he was gonna fall. 886 00:52:22,597 --> 00:52:25,934 The $681 million USD went into his account. 887 00:52:26,017 --> 00:52:27,394 How is he gonna explain it, right? 888 00:52:27,477 --> 00:52:28,728 And he was gonna be charged, 889 00:52:28,812 --> 00:52:31,314 but, all of a sudden, he just came back. 890 00:52:31,398 --> 00:52:34,776 He removed those who were making a move against him, 891 00:52:34,860 --> 00:52:39,906 he suspended us, and then he was totally, totally in charge. 892 00:52:40,907 --> 00:52:44,369 What had happened did not, to me, did not affect 893 00:52:44,452 --> 00:52:47,038 the fact that we were still gonna work this. 894 00:52:47,122 --> 00:52:49,833 Even while Najib was in power, the Malaysian Anti-Corruption Commission 895 00:52:49,916 --> 00:52:53,461 basically worked with the FBI to make this case possible. 896 00:52:53,545 --> 00:52:55,005 They reported to Najib, 897 00:52:55,088 --> 00:52:57,424 but they worked with the FBI on the side. 898 00:52:57,507 --> 00:52:59,217 Abu Kassim told me, 899 00:52:59,301 --> 00:53:01,678 "I'm the head of the Malaysian Anti-Corruption Commission, 900 00:53:01,761 --> 00:53:04,472 and this is one of the biggest corruption cases in the world. 901 00:53:04,556 --> 00:53:06,683 You know, I feel a sense of responsibility 902 00:53:06,766 --> 00:53:10,103 to work with you and to get to the truth." 903 00:53:11,479 --> 00:53:12,647 This is an individual to me 904 00:53:12,731 --> 00:53:17,861 that demonstrated that fortitude, that bravery, 905 00:53:17,944 --> 00:53:21,489 to take a stand with what he believed was wrong. 906 00:53:22,782 --> 00:53:24,492 He did feel this passion 907 00:53:24,576 --> 00:53:27,579 as a person who fought corruption his entire life. 908 00:53:27,662 --> 00:53:30,123 Ultimately, it ended his career. 909 00:53:30,206 --> 00:53:35,462 Hopefully, we can continue our dream 910 00:53:35,545 --> 00:53:41,384 to see this country free of corruption. 911 00:53:46,181 --> 00:53:50,060 {\an8}My tour in Malaysia ended and I returned to the US. 912 00:53:51,019 --> 00:53:57,609 {\an8}I felt pretty downtrodden because there seemed to be, 913 00:53:57,692 --> 00:53:59,110 from the Malaysian perspective, 914 00:53:59,194 --> 00:54:03,615 a gag order, essentially, on the 1MDB investigation. 915 00:54:04,824 --> 00:54:10,330 I remember, I got a message, "Watch the news later today. 916 00:54:11,331 --> 00:54:13,249 They're going to talk about 1MDB." 917 00:54:16,836 --> 00:54:18,713 Today, the Department of Justice 918 00:54:18,797 --> 00:54:20,590 has filed a civil complaint 919 00:54:20,674 --> 00:54:22,509 seeking to forfeit and recover 920 00:54:22,592 --> 00:54:25,261 more than $1 billion in assets 921 00:54:25,345 --> 00:54:26,221 associated with 922 00:54:26,304 --> 00:54:27,681 an international conspiracy 923 00:54:27,764 --> 00:54:29,140 to launder funds 924 00:54:29,224 --> 00:54:32,018 stolen from 1Malaysia Development Berhad, 925 00:54:32,102 --> 00:54:33,979 or 1MDB. 926 00:54:34,062 --> 00:54:35,522 I can never stop thanking 927 00:54:35,605 --> 00:54:37,232 the FBI and the DOJ. 928 00:54:37,315 --> 00:54:39,067 I was so happy. 929 00:54:39,150 --> 00:54:41,903 I didn't believe that this was happening 930 00:54:41,987 --> 00:54:46,533 because we were fighting this uphill battle for so long. 931 00:54:46,616 --> 00:54:49,327 A number of corrupt 1MDB officials 932 00:54:49,411 --> 00:54:53,248 treated this public trust as a personal bank account. 933 00:54:53,331 --> 00:54:56,710 We had put together the largest international corruption case 934 00:54:56,793 --> 00:54:59,629 and civil forfeiture filing in the history of the Justice Department. 935 00:55:01,256 --> 00:55:05,343 When the FBI and the DOJ came out and laid it out, 936 00:55:05,427 --> 00:55:07,762 exactly how the money was stolen, 937 00:55:07,846 --> 00:55:09,764 which companies it went through, 938 00:55:09,848 --> 00:55:11,266 where it ended up, 939 00:55:11,349 --> 00:55:13,893 {\an8}and how it was spent. 940 00:55:13,977 --> 00:55:15,895 {\an8}$137 million 941 00:55:15,979 --> 00:55:17,647 of the pilfered money 942 00:55:17,731 --> 00:55:19,733 was spent to purchase works of art. 943 00:55:19,816 --> 00:55:21,317 A Bombardier jet 944 00:55:21,401 --> 00:55:24,237 with a purchase price of $35 million. 945 00:55:24,320 --> 00:55:27,741 $250 million on a silly yacht! 946 00:55:28,533 --> 00:55:32,245 They used the money to pay gambling debts at Las Vegas casinos. 947 00:55:32,328 --> 00:55:34,998 Miranda Kerr, picked up by Jho Low 948 00:55:35,081 --> 00:55:38,585 and taken on a cruise in this super yacht 949 00:55:38,668 --> 00:55:42,964 and given $8 million worth of matching pink diamonds 950 00:55:43,048 --> 00:55:46,259 as a Valentine's Day present. 951 00:55:46,342 --> 00:55:49,179 {\an8}Most of the stuff he bought her, she had to give back. 952 00:55:49,262 --> 00:55:51,347 {\an8}It was seized by the government. 953 00:55:51,431 --> 00:55:54,934 He also presented her with an acrylic see-through piano. 954 00:55:55,810 --> 00:55:59,481 The house was built around this grand piano 955 00:55:59,564 --> 00:56:01,024 and there's no way to get it out, 956 00:56:01,107 --> 00:56:02,942 so I think the government just threw up their hands. 957 00:56:03,026 --> 00:56:05,236 "Just keep it. Just keep the piano." 958 00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:08,990 It's perversely poetic that 959 00:56:09,074 --> 00:56:11,910 {\an8}some of the billions of dollars stolen from 960 00:56:11,993 --> 00:56:13,036 {\an8}the government of Malaysia 961 00:56:13,119 --> 00:56:15,872 {\an8}was used to fund the movie The Wolf of Wall Street, 962 00:56:15,955 --> 00:56:19,542 which is a movie about greed, about excess, 963 00:56:20,251 --> 00:56:24,798 and about how money can, at least for a time, 964 00:56:24,881 --> 00:56:27,050 make somebody seem invincible. 965 00:56:27,133 --> 00:56:31,554 Malaysians were both horrified and hooked by this drama. 966 00:56:31,638 --> 00:56:35,600 $500 million alone 967 00:56:35,683 --> 00:56:39,270 on Rosmah's diamonds and excesses. 968 00:56:40,772 --> 00:56:44,609 Rosmah Mansor, Najib's wife, is probably 969 00:56:44,692 --> 00:56:50,990 the most vain, narcissistic, greedy, and corrupt 970 00:56:51,074 --> 00:56:55,161 wife of a prime minister 971 00:56:55,245 --> 00:56:59,874 or sitting ruler of any country around the world. 972 00:57:00,875 --> 00:57:04,963 There was a 22-carat, pink, heart-shaped diamond 973 00:57:05,046 --> 00:57:07,006 that was given to Rosmah 974 00:57:07,090 --> 00:57:10,552 with funds stolen from the Malaysian people. 975 00:57:11,427 --> 00:57:14,264 This particular asset became one of the symbols of 976 00:57:14,347 --> 00:57:16,433 the graft of the 1MDB investigation. 977 00:57:17,475 --> 00:57:19,602 The $27 million diamond 978 00:57:19,686 --> 00:57:22,188 that Jho Low purchased for Rosmah Mansor 979 00:57:22,272 --> 00:57:25,567 came from funds that passed through 980 00:57:25,650 --> 00:57:30,280 the bank account of the person named in the complaint 981 00:57:30,989 --> 00:57:34,492 as Malaysian Foreign Official One. 982 00:57:34,576 --> 00:57:36,119 Because of my role with DOJ, 983 00:57:36,202 --> 00:57:40,081 I can't identify, you know, on camera. 984 00:57:40,165 --> 00:57:43,084 I can't say who Malaysian Official One is. 985 00:57:47,046 --> 00:57:50,300 It sends a message to kleptocrats that, 986 00:57:50,383 --> 00:57:52,427 if you take your illicit proceeds 987 00:57:52,510 --> 00:57:55,013 and bring them to a place like the United States, 988 00:57:55,096 --> 00:57:57,724 you don't control the narrative anymore. 989 00:57:57,807 --> 00:58:00,894 So, when 1MDB started to fall apart, basically, the shit hit the fan, 990 00:58:00,977 --> 00:58:03,771 Jho Low had sort of disappeared from the map. 991 00:58:03,855 --> 00:58:06,858 We called a great source and they said to us, 992 00:58:06,941 --> 00:58:09,402 "You wouldn't believe where Jho Low is right now. 993 00:58:09,486 --> 00:58:11,529 He's in the Arctic Circle. 994 00:58:11,613 --> 00:58:14,240 He has this giant yacht called the Equanimity, 995 00:58:14,324 --> 00:58:17,452 and it's an ice-class yacht, so it can actually break ice. 996 00:58:17,535 --> 00:58:20,121 Like, he's literally the furthest place he could be on Earth 997 00:58:20,205 --> 00:58:22,081 from the scandal." 998 00:58:22,165 --> 00:58:24,209 That's what finished Najib, 999 00:58:24,292 --> 00:58:30,965 looking at how this money was spent, aided by Jho Low. 1000 00:58:31,049 --> 00:58:33,968 How could you vote back such a scoundrel? 1001 00:58:37,096 --> 00:58:40,016 In 2018, the lead-up to the election, 1002 00:58:40,099 --> 00:58:43,186 in the words of a State Department official, 1003 00:58:43,269 --> 00:58:45,396 "Najib's gonna get reelected 1004 00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:47,148 and that's gonna be the end of your case." 1005 00:58:49,067 --> 00:58:52,445 1MDB resonated among the middle class, 1006 00:58:52,529 --> 00:58:56,324 the professional class, who understood what 1MDB was about, 1007 00:58:56,908 --> 00:58:58,952 about the theft of billions of dollars. 1008 00:59:00,495 --> 00:59:01,996 But he was very confident. 1009 00:59:04,457 --> 00:59:08,169 Never has the ruling government, Barisan National, 1010 00:59:08,253 --> 00:59:10,213 never have they lost in the national elections. 1011 00:59:19,305 --> 00:59:22,684 Everybody here is because they want to look for a change, 1012 00:59:23,184 --> 00:59:25,103 {\an8}a better future for all their grandchildren. 1013 00:59:27,230 --> 00:59:30,066 We have had enough. Enough is enough. 1014 00:59:30,650 --> 00:59:33,528 It was a tense time. 1015 00:59:33,611 --> 00:59:36,364 I remember talking to some senior police officials 1016 00:59:36,447 --> 00:59:39,284 who were saying, "You know, if you go out in the communities 1017 00:59:39,367 --> 00:59:42,328 and you see the rallies where Mahathir is speaking, 1018 00:59:42,412 --> 00:59:44,872 there's a tremendous amount of enthusiasm." 1019 00:59:48,042 --> 00:59:51,212 In 2018, it wasn't merely about changing government. 1020 00:59:51,296 --> 00:59:53,423 {\an8}It was a liberation of mindsets 1021 00:59:53,506 --> 00:59:56,676 {\an8}in which now Malaysians know that they are ultimately in control. 1022 00:59:57,719 --> 01:00:02,307 {\an8}His predecessor, Mahathir, started to come out and to say that 1023 01:00:02,390 --> 01:00:04,642 {\an8}Najib was a liar and a criminal. 1024 01:00:05,852 --> 01:00:07,895 He has galvanized a fractured opposition 1025 01:00:07,979 --> 01:00:10,565 to oust what he calls a government of thieves. 1026 01:00:10,648 --> 01:00:13,526 The opposition under Anwar Ibrahim and all the others, 1027 01:00:13,610 --> 01:00:16,529 they're able to get to the door, 1028 01:00:16,613 --> 01:00:19,657 but they couldn't open the door to power. 1029 01:00:20,658 --> 01:00:22,869 Mahathir was able to open the door 1030 01:00:22,952 --> 01:00:26,581 because a lot of conservative Malays 1031 01:00:26,664 --> 01:00:29,042 who would never vote for Anwar Ibrahim 1032 01:00:29,125 --> 01:00:33,212 voted for the opposition because of Mahathir 1033 01:00:33,296 --> 01:00:35,548 because Mahathir was one of them. 1034 01:00:35,632 --> 01:00:39,469 {\an8}Anwar Ibrahim used to be a student radical in his early days 1035 01:00:39,552 --> 01:00:44,098 {\an8}and eventually became deputy prime minister under Mahathir, 1036 01:00:44,182 --> 01:00:46,934 {\an8}but he was a political prisoner early on. 1037 01:00:48,853 --> 01:00:52,440 {\an8}Anwar has spent a lot of his life in jail. 1038 01:00:52,523 --> 01:00:54,776 {\an8}He's now 75 years old. 1039 01:00:56,110 --> 01:00:58,071 You mentioned that you'd read thousands of books 1040 01:00:58,154 --> 01:00:59,864 while you were in prison. 1041 01:00:59,947 --> 01:01:01,949 What is the book that meant the most to you? 1042 01:01:02,575 --> 01:01:04,410 All the classics was important to me. 1043 01:01:04,994 --> 01:01:08,998 Initially, it was very difficult. It was one book a week. 1044 01:01:11,084 --> 01:01:14,170 To them, books can be a weapon in prison. 1045 01:01:21,636 --> 01:01:24,472 Why did I form an alliance with Mahathir? 1046 01:01:24,972 --> 01:01:28,851 It was very difficult, one of the most toughest decisions 1047 01:01:29,852 --> 01:01:31,270 I had to make in my life. 1048 01:01:34,774 --> 01:01:40,905 {\an8}There is sometimes a bigger agenda in life, a bigger task. 1049 01:01:40,988 --> 01:01:46,577 {\an8}The nation supersedes your personal desires or anger, 1050 01:01:46,661 --> 01:01:51,165 {\an8}and I think, for now, it is to save the country 1051 01:01:51,249 --> 01:01:56,546 {\an8}from the corruption and atrocities under Dato' Sri Najib, 1052 01:01:56,629 --> 01:02:00,258 and we therefore had to form an alliance. 1053 01:02:00,341 --> 01:02:04,262 They were rivals in the past, but they came together 1054 01:02:04,345 --> 01:02:07,682 for the sole purpose of defeating Najib. 1055 01:02:07,765 --> 01:02:10,017 {\an8}Both of us realized that, 1056 01:02:10,101 --> 01:02:15,106 {\an8}if you quarrel with each other, the winner will be Najib. 1057 01:02:16,733 --> 01:02:19,360 I remember I had just gotten back from the US, 1058 01:02:19,444 --> 01:02:22,363 and I was pretty much resigned to the fact that 1059 01:02:22,447 --> 01:02:23,656 he was gonna win. 1060 01:02:24,490 --> 01:02:27,910 Just before I went to sleep, I looked at the ongoing results 1061 01:02:27,994 --> 01:02:31,164 and, you know, Mahathir was ahead, but it was still early. 1062 01:02:31,247 --> 01:02:36,002 At about 2:00 a.m., Woo Lee called, saying, 1063 01:02:36,085 --> 01:02:38,379 "Is what I think happening, happening?" 1064 01:02:38,463 --> 01:02:39,881 And I was wide awake then, 1065 01:02:39,964 --> 01:02:42,508 and I remember going into my living room 1066 01:02:42,592 --> 01:02:43,843 and turning the television on, 1067 01:02:43,926 --> 01:02:46,763 and just, you know, just the state of shock 1068 01:02:46,846 --> 01:02:48,639 that this had actually happened. 1069 01:02:48,723 --> 01:02:50,767 Then, we won the election of 2018. 1070 01:02:53,770 --> 01:02:55,813 Celebrations across Malaysia 1071 01:02:55,897 --> 01:02:58,733 after a shock result in the national elections. 1072 01:02:58,816 --> 01:03:01,402 {\an8}Mahathir Mohammed has won a stunning victory 1073 01:03:01,486 --> 01:03:04,864 {\an8}in Malaysia's election, ending the six-decade rule 1074 01:03:04,947 --> 01:03:07,158 {\an8}of Prime Minister Najib Razak's coalition. 1075 01:03:12,038 --> 01:03:15,750 The people rose up, challenged this kleptocratic state, 1076 01:03:15,833 --> 01:03:18,461 no longer just silencing themselves. 1077 01:03:18,544 --> 01:03:23,716 - Reformasi! - Reformasi! 1078 01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:27,303 They shout the name of the movement launched 20 years ago, 1079 01:03:27,386 --> 01:03:30,431 when their leader, Anwar Ibrahim, was jailed, 1080 01:03:30,515 --> 01:03:32,558 ironically on orders of the man 1081 01:03:32,642 --> 01:03:34,769 who has led them to victory today. 1082 01:03:34,852 --> 01:03:36,687 Enough of intimidation! 1083 01:03:37,647 --> 01:03:38,815 No more! 1084 01:03:38,898 --> 01:03:42,985 We have entered a new era for Malaysia! 1085 01:03:50,660 --> 01:03:51,619 Take a look at this. 1086 01:03:51,702 --> 01:03:52,662 This is footage we got in 1087 01:03:52,745 --> 01:03:55,289 just in the last few minutes from Malaysia. 1088 01:03:55,373 --> 01:03:57,708 Former Prime Minister Dato' Sri Najib Razak 1089 01:03:57,792 --> 01:04:00,169 has been arrested over the 1MDB scandal. 1090 01:04:00,253 --> 01:04:03,256 Malaysians watched in fascination as police conducted raids 1091 01:04:03,339 --> 01:04:05,341 on properties linked to Najib Razak. 1092 01:04:05,424 --> 01:04:10,179 There were 284 boxes containing handbags 1093 01:04:10,263 --> 01:04:16,185 and there were 72 bags containing cash, jewelry, and watches. 1094 01:04:16,269 --> 01:04:22,275 So, the total cost of all the items, the retail price, 1095 01:04:22,358 --> 01:04:28,406 will be touching 910 to 1.1 billion ringgit. 1096 01:04:30,324 --> 01:04:34,328 With some breaking input that has just come in from Kuala Lumpur. 1097 01:04:34,829 --> 01:04:36,747 Malaysia's former leader, Najib Razak, 1098 01:04:36,831 --> 01:04:40,459 has been found guilty of all seven corruption charges. 1099 01:04:40,543 --> 01:04:42,753 He's always maintained his innocence, 1100 01:04:42,837 --> 01:04:45,590 but the country's high court didn't buy it. 1101 01:04:47,717 --> 01:04:51,178 Who is most responsible for 1MDB? 1102 01:04:54,432 --> 01:04:56,350 {\an8}Dato' Sri Najib, the then-prime minister, 1103 01:04:56,434 --> 01:04:59,979 must be held fully responsible and accountable. 1104 01:05:16,913 --> 01:05:18,289 You turned my office into a studio. 1105 01:05:19,373 --> 01:05:21,000 {\an8}- Who's doing the interviewing? - I am. 1106 01:05:21,083 --> 01:05:22,168 {\an8}You're doing it? 1107 01:05:22,835 --> 01:05:23,836 You have the understanding, 1108 01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:28,382 in case it borders on sub judice and contempt of court. 1109 01:05:29,467 --> 01:05:30,676 I've got to stop that. 1110 01:05:30,760 --> 01:05:32,470 - Sure. - Because the trial is on. 1111 01:05:34,597 --> 01:05:37,516 Whose idea was it to create 1MDB? 1112 01:05:37,600 --> 01:05:39,226 It wasn't my idea. 1113 01:05:39,310 --> 01:05:42,605 I had no idea whatsoever to create 1MDB, 1114 01:05:42,688 --> 01:05:46,817 but it was also based on a rationale 1115 01:05:46,901 --> 01:05:51,781 that we wanted to attract more investment for Malaysia, 1116 01:05:51,864 --> 01:05:53,824 particularly from the Middle East. 1117 01:05:55,993 --> 01:05:57,203 Who was Jho Low? 1118 01:05:58,412 --> 01:06:01,123 Well, I didn't know Jho Low to begin with. 1119 01:06:02,291 --> 01:06:08,339 {\an8}He came via his appointment by the previous king, 1120 01:06:08,422 --> 01:06:10,549 and he also came with 1121 01:06:10,633 --> 01:06:14,679 the strong connections with the Middle East, 1122 01:06:14,762 --> 01:06:17,515 particularly with Saudi and UAE. 1123 01:06:17,598 --> 01:06:19,767 Were you aware that Jho Low and your stepson Riza Aziz 1124 01:06:19,850 --> 01:06:22,770 were funding Hollywood films with 1MDB money? 1125 01:06:22,853 --> 01:06:25,314 I was not. I was totally unaware. 1126 01:07:08,399 --> 01:07:11,193 In March of 2013, you signed a letter 1127 01:07:11,277 --> 01:07:15,156 asking Goldman Sachs to raise $3 billion in a bond sale 1128 01:07:15,239 --> 01:07:19,577 with the Malaysian government, guaranteeing the debt in case of default, 1129 01:07:19,660 --> 01:07:20,494 and, at that point, 1130 01:07:20,578 --> 01:07:23,372 Goldman had raked in $600 million in profits. 1131 01:07:25,207 --> 01:07:27,668 Did this not raise any red flags for you? 1132 01:07:27,752 --> 01:07:31,797 Well, we wanted the funds for 1MDB, 1133 01:07:31,881 --> 01:07:35,301 and, as you know, you're rather, you know, 1134 01:07:35,384 --> 01:07:37,636 in a way, seduced by the name of Goldman Sachs. 1135 01:07:38,179 --> 01:07:41,974 I guess I was more interested in raising the funds 1136 01:07:42,058 --> 01:07:44,393 rather than looking into the details of it. 1137 01:07:44,477 --> 01:07:46,854 Were you aware of the size of the fees they were charging? 1138 01:07:46,937 --> 01:07:49,482 I was not exactly aware of the amount. No. 1139 01:07:52,777 --> 01:07:56,614 So, in 2013, $681 million 1140 01:07:56,697 --> 01:07:59,075 was deposited into your personal accounts 1141 01:07:59,158 --> 01:08:01,368 from a bank account associated with Jho Low. 1142 01:08:04,622 --> 01:08:05,790 How do you explain that? 1143 01:08:06,957 --> 01:08:09,418 To begin with, when I met King Abdullah, 1144 01:08:10,336 --> 01:08:13,005 {\an8}he promised that he would help me, 1145 01:08:13,089 --> 01:08:17,093 {\an8}and he believed that Malaysia as a government was 1146 01:08:18,344 --> 01:08:23,099 an example of how a Muslim country should be run. 1147 01:08:23,182 --> 01:08:25,810 Were any favors requested in exchange for this money? 1148 01:08:25,893 --> 01:08:29,146 Was it a quid pro quo on a personal level with the Saudi government? 1149 01:08:29,230 --> 01:08:33,359 No, I made it very clear that there was no quid pro quo, 1150 01:08:33,442 --> 01:08:36,987 and it was given to me and I could use it as I deemed fit. 1151 01:08:37,071 --> 01:08:39,824 You can see why people have a hard time believing that. 1152 01:08:39,907 --> 01:08:43,619 Well, that was my understanding with the late King Abdullah. 1153 01:08:45,579 --> 01:08:46,872 How do you respond to allegations 1154 01:08:46,956 --> 01:08:50,042 that you had to have known about the 1MDB deals 1155 01:08:50,126 --> 01:08:53,337 because your signature is on all the documents 1156 01:08:53,420 --> 01:08:55,047 required for the deals and investments? 1157 01:08:55,131 --> 01:09:00,177 You know, maybe I was too trusting, perhaps, 1158 01:09:00,970 --> 01:09:05,057 but it was required because the minister of finance 1159 01:09:05,141 --> 01:09:08,144 is the sole shareholder of 1MDB 1160 01:09:08,227 --> 01:09:10,312 and my signature was required, 1161 01:09:11,105 --> 01:09:13,399 but I never, never imagined that 1162 01:09:13,482 --> 01:09:19,363 it was part of a scheme to defraud 1MDB at all. 1163 01:09:19,446 --> 01:09:22,199 Did you review these documents before you signed them? 1164 01:09:22,283 --> 01:09:24,702 I didn't know that the management 1165 01:09:24,785 --> 01:09:28,998 was also in cahoots with Jho Low, and they were also... 1166 01:09:29,081 --> 01:09:34,628 And also members of my office also in cahoots with Jho Low, 1167 01:09:34,712 --> 01:09:38,132 and they did receive a substantial amount of money. 1168 01:09:38,215 --> 01:09:41,468 Your assertion is that everyone around you 1169 01:09:41,552 --> 01:09:44,180 was in cahoots with Jho Low except for yourself? 1170 01:09:44,263 --> 01:09:46,724 Jho Low was very manipulative 1171 01:09:47,433 --> 01:09:50,519 and he made sure that the people around me 1172 01:09:50,603 --> 01:09:56,192 plus the system was on his side 1173 01:09:56,275 --> 01:09:58,652 and he could influence them. 1174 01:09:58,736 --> 01:10:02,281 The names that were supposed to protect you, 1175 01:10:02,364 --> 01:10:03,741 to protect the government, 1176 01:10:04,241 --> 01:10:07,077 failed in their responsibilities. 1177 01:10:07,161 --> 01:10:09,121 - What about you? - Including the Central Bank. 1178 01:10:09,205 --> 01:10:11,207 What about you though? Did you fail? 1179 01:10:11,290 --> 01:10:12,416 Yeah. I failed in a sense. 1180 01:10:12,499 --> 01:10:17,630 I trusted the wrong people and I should have... 1181 01:10:20,674 --> 01:10:25,262 not assumed that things would happen in the way it did. 1182 01:10:25,930 --> 01:10:28,432 Too many people who should have alerted me, 1183 01:10:28,515 --> 01:10:29,600 they didn't alert. 1184 01:10:30,643 --> 01:10:33,479 Do you believe you're the victim of a vast conspiracy? 1185 01:10:34,396 --> 01:10:37,483 Well, a lot of things were deliberately kept away from me, 1186 01:10:37,566 --> 01:10:38,567 put it this way. 1187 01:10:39,944 --> 01:10:44,782 I mean, I wouldn't be so stupid. 1188 01:10:45,491 --> 01:10:47,743 I mean, I must be really 1189 01:10:47,826 --> 01:10:50,454 the person with the lowest IQ in the world. 1190 01:10:50,537 --> 01:10:52,706 Do you believe you failed the people of Malaysia? 1191 01:10:54,917 --> 01:10:59,505 In a sense, I failed, in I trusted the wrong people, yes, 1192 01:11:00,923 --> 01:11:03,384 but the system failed me as well. 1193 01:11:03,467 --> 01:11:04,843 I think that has to be noted. 1194 01:11:04,927 --> 01:11:09,682 The system that was supposed to support me 1195 01:11:09,765 --> 01:11:12,184 failed me, failed the people of Malaysia. 1196 01:11:12,268 --> 01:11:13,602 In America, 1197 01:11:13,686 --> 01:11:16,063 we have a saying popularized by Harry Truman. 1198 01:11:17,022 --> 01:11:18,524 "The buck stops here." 1199 01:11:18,607 --> 01:11:22,152 Because ultimate responsibility lies with the leader. 1200 01:11:22,236 --> 01:11:25,656 Now, you're telling me that you trusted the wrong people 1201 01:11:25,739 --> 01:11:27,574 and the system let you down, 1202 01:11:27,658 --> 01:11:30,286 but does that absolve you of responsibility? 1203 01:11:30,369 --> 01:11:32,454 Do you believe that you should not be held accountable? 1204 01:11:32,538 --> 01:11:34,832 What was I accountable for? 1205 01:11:34,915 --> 01:11:36,166 And that's important. 1206 01:11:36,250 --> 01:11:39,712 You don't just say, "Oh, the buck stops with him," 1207 01:11:39,795 --> 01:11:42,923 but, you know, as a prime minister, 1208 01:11:43,007 --> 01:11:46,468 as I said, you are supported by the entire system, 1209 01:11:47,094 --> 01:11:51,557 and many people are supposed to advise you, but up to now, 1210 01:11:51,640 --> 01:11:54,476 no action was taken against them, you see. 1211 01:11:54,560 --> 01:11:56,270 So, that is my bone of contention. 1212 01:11:56,353 --> 01:11:58,564 People are equally 1213 01:11:58,647 --> 01:12:03,485 or if not worse in terms of their culpability, 1214 01:12:04,111 --> 01:12:06,322 why has action not been taken? 1215 01:12:06,405 --> 01:12:09,658 When people receive money for their personal use, 1216 01:12:09,742 --> 01:12:11,452 no action has been taken. 1217 01:12:11,535 --> 01:12:13,245 I mean, does it mean that, 1218 01:12:13,329 --> 01:12:16,248 just because you take action against the man at the top, 1219 01:12:16,332 --> 01:12:18,083 everybody else is absolved? 1220 01:12:18,167 --> 01:12:19,918 I'm sure it doesn't mean that. 1221 01:12:20,002 --> 01:12:22,546 I mean, if you commit a wrongdoing, 1222 01:12:22,629 --> 01:12:24,131 then you should be prosecuted, 1223 01:12:24,965 --> 01:12:27,426 but, so far, none have been prosecuted. 1224 01:12:27,509 --> 01:12:30,220 This is what I feel... 1225 01:12:30,304 --> 01:12:36,352 what is wrong with our reaction to the whole 1MDB saga. 1226 01:12:39,646 --> 01:12:40,939 {\an8}"Have you no shame?" 1227 01:12:42,232 --> 01:12:45,194 {\an8}That is what everyone's asking of Najib. 1228 01:12:45,277 --> 01:12:49,198 {\an8}You know you're lying. We know you're lying. 1229 01:12:49,281 --> 01:12:53,243 Have you no shame for what you've done to your country? 1230 01:12:53,327 --> 01:12:55,120 I was finance minister for eight years. 1231 01:12:55,204 --> 01:12:58,165 It's just impossible, ludicrous, 1232 01:12:58,248 --> 01:13:02,294 to assume that there's billions of schemes 1233 01:13:02,378 --> 01:13:05,381 under the government auspices that you don't know. 1234 01:13:05,464 --> 01:13:08,217 You must be either completely ignorant 1235 01:13:08,300 --> 01:13:10,928 or an idiot or blatantly corrupt. 1236 01:13:11,011 --> 01:13:15,057 I don't believe any sensible person could believe that. 1237 01:13:16,892 --> 01:13:18,936 This morning, the department filed 1238 01:13:19,019 --> 01:13:22,689 criminal charges in New York against the Goldman Sachs Group 1239 01:13:22,773 --> 01:13:24,650 and its Malaysian subsidiary, 1240 01:13:24,733 --> 01:13:26,360 charging each with conspiracy 1241 01:13:26,443 --> 01:13:29,113 to violate the anti-bribery provisions 1242 01:13:29,196 --> 01:13:31,281 of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, 1243 01:13:31,365 --> 01:13:36,787 {\an8}and requires the bank to pay a total of over $2.9 billion 1244 01:13:36,870 --> 01:13:39,998 {\an8}in criminal fines, penalties, and disgorgement. 1245 01:13:41,417 --> 01:13:43,919 The timing of this happening is stunning. 1246 01:13:44,002 --> 01:13:46,380 How quickly after the financial crisis, 1247 01:13:46,463 --> 01:13:49,425 with all the same players in their chairs. 1248 01:13:49,508 --> 01:13:51,176 {\an8}Many people will say 1249 01:13:51,260 --> 01:13:53,470 {\an8}these fines are just a cost of doing business. 1250 01:13:53,554 --> 01:13:58,225 Fines are a deterrent to this type of activity, no doubt. 1251 01:13:58,308 --> 01:14:01,562 Without higher-level decision-makers 1252 01:14:01,645 --> 01:14:03,564 eventually going to prison for them, 1253 01:14:03,647 --> 01:14:05,983 it's not the ultimate deterrent. 1254 01:14:06,733 --> 01:14:09,820 {\an8}Do I think that they've been held to account 1255 01:14:09,903 --> 01:14:11,196 {\an8}as much as they should have? 1256 01:14:11,280 --> 01:14:12,990 {\an8}I personally don't, but, you know, 1257 01:14:13,073 --> 01:14:15,993 {\an8}those decisions were made at extremely high levels of DOJ. 1258 01:15:02,289 --> 01:15:05,000 Ng is the only Goldman banker to stand trial. 1259 01:15:05,083 --> 01:15:08,170 He's charged with helping launder billions of dollars 1260 01:15:08,253 --> 01:15:10,172 embezzled from 1MDB. 1261 01:15:10,255 --> 01:15:13,592 Ng faces as many as 30 years in prison. 1262 01:15:13,675 --> 01:15:16,678 Roger Ng was more like as a proxy for Jho Low. 1263 01:15:16,762 --> 01:15:19,723 The trial was about Jho Low and Jho Low's crimes. 1264 01:15:19,806 --> 01:15:22,267 Tim Leissner would've been in the worst trouble of all, 1265 01:15:22,351 --> 01:15:23,602 but he sang like a canary. 1266 01:15:24,144 --> 01:15:26,063 Roger Ng wasn't really on our radar, 1267 01:15:26,146 --> 01:15:28,482 but he didn't ever come across as an instrumental person. 1268 01:15:29,066 --> 01:15:31,193 {\an8}We later learned he was the guy on the ground 1269 01:15:31,276 --> 01:15:32,319 {\an8}dealing with 1MDB, 1270 01:15:32,402 --> 01:15:34,821 whereas Tim was more the high-flying guy 1271 01:15:34,905 --> 01:15:37,574 that was overseeing the strategy. 1272 01:15:40,244 --> 01:15:41,954 In Malaysia right now, 1273 01:15:42,037 --> 01:15:45,457 there are some people who sympathize with Roger Ng. 1274 01:15:46,875 --> 01:15:51,213 {\an8}Why did DOJ pick a Malaysian to charge? 1275 01:15:51,296 --> 01:15:53,549 {\an8}Why did they do a deal with Leissner? 1276 01:15:53,632 --> 01:15:55,759 What about all the other Goldman Sachs guys? 1277 01:15:55,842 --> 01:15:58,887 What about the Arabs who stole from 1MDB? 1278 01:15:59,805 --> 01:16:01,515 Tim Leissner talked about 1279 01:16:01,598 --> 01:16:05,561 how helpful Otaiba was to Jho Low, 1280 01:16:05,644 --> 01:16:08,438 because, at the very elite world, 1281 01:16:08,522 --> 01:16:11,525 {\an8}so much of it runs on trust and who you know. 1282 01:16:11,608 --> 01:16:14,736 {\an8}What Leissner's testimony tells us is that 1283 01:16:14,820 --> 01:16:16,363 {\an8}Otaiba was seen as the person 1284 01:16:16,446 --> 01:16:19,533 getting them approvals within the UAE, 1285 01:16:19,616 --> 01:16:22,661 easing the process if it were ever slowed down 1286 01:16:22,744 --> 01:16:25,455 to enable Jho Low to have the scheme, 1287 01:16:25,539 --> 01:16:27,124 to have the UAE backing, 1288 01:16:27,207 --> 01:16:29,751 to have the UAE sovereign wealth fund, IPIC, 1289 01:16:29,835 --> 01:16:31,878 be the guarantor of 1MDB. 1290 01:16:33,213 --> 01:16:34,423 The Wall Street Journal in particular 1291 01:16:34,506 --> 01:16:37,634 was able to show $66 million 1292 01:16:37,718 --> 01:16:40,053 flowed into companies connected to Otaiba 1293 01:16:40,554 --> 01:16:43,098 during the period that the 1MDB scam was active. 1294 01:16:43,724 --> 01:16:47,352 The UAE is punching so far above its weight, 1295 01:16:47,436 --> 01:16:49,479 thanks to Otaiba here in Washington, 1296 01:16:49,563 --> 01:16:54,401 that removing him would come at such a high diplomatic cost 1297 01:16:54,484 --> 01:16:57,404 that there's really no benefit 1298 01:16:57,487 --> 01:17:00,073 that would make it worth doing it for them, 1299 01:17:00,157 --> 01:17:02,367 and that includes whatever blow-back 1300 01:17:02,451 --> 01:17:05,871 they're gonna get around the Jho Low scandal. 1301 01:17:09,833 --> 01:17:12,419 Conspiracies, everyone has a job to do. 1302 01:17:12,502 --> 01:17:13,670 A short time ago, 1303 01:17:13,754 --> 01:17:15,672 a federal jury in Brooklyn convicted 1304 01:17:15,756 --> 01:17:19,259 former Goldman Sachs Managing Director Roger Ng. 1305 01:17:19,343 --> 01:17:22,471 {\an8}It's like an orchestra, and everyone plays an instrument, 1306 01:17:22,554 --> 01:17:25,891 {\an8}and even that guy at the last minute that hits the cymbals, 1307 01:17:25,974 --> 01:17:29,436 his cymbal is also part of the conspiracy. 1308 01:17:29,519 --> 01:17:32,981 Today's verdict is a victory for not only the rule of law 1309 01:17:33,065 --> 01:17:34,733 but also for the people of Malaysia. 1310 01:17:35,442 --> 01:17:37,986 Roger Ng was the guy with the cymbals. 1311 01:17:38,737 --> 01:17:41,114 People often forget that Najib and Jho Low, 1312 01:17:41,198 --> 01:17:45,535 as the architects who conceived and designed the scheme, 1313 01:17:45,619 --> 01:17:47,663 could not have achieved all this 1314 01:17:48,163 --> 01:17:51,291 without helpers, people who assisted them, enablers. 1315 01:17:51,375 --> 01:17:53,543 All of them were compliant. 1316 01:17:55,837 --> 01:17:58,423 In this case, you really see so many different 1317 01:17:58,507 --> 01:18:00,967 middle-level kind of bureaucratic organizations 1318 01:18:01,051 --> 01:18:02,427 that made enormous amounts of money 1319 01:18:02,511 --> 01:18:04,388 but didn't really get held accountable. 1320 01:18:06,556 --> 01:18:10,102 The accounting firms that looked at the books of 1MDB. 1321 01:18:10,185 --> 01:18:12,938 Law firms that didn't really ask enough questions. 1322 01:18:13,021 --> 01:18:15,857 PR firms just doing the job they were told. 1323 01:18:17,025 --> 01:18:19,986 All of this is being conducted by 1324 01:18:20,070 --> 01:18:24,199 British, American, European professional classes, 1325 01:18:24,282 --> 01:18:27,744 the sort of people I went to school with, the people I meet in parties. 1326 01:18:27,828 --> 01:18:29,162 They turn a blind eye 1327 01:18:29,246 --> 01:18:33,917 and they make themselves rich, facilitating this corruption, 1328 01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:37,504 and then pretending that it's got nothing to do with them. 1329 01:18:37,587 --> 01:18:39,339 This is a global problem. 1330 01:18:39,423 --> 01:18:42,342 It's a global system, but there are other consequences, 1331 01:18:42,426 --> 01:18:46,930 because that dirty money now is coming into our countries, 1332 01:18:47,013 --> 01:18:49,057 and the people who control it 1333 01:18:49,141 --> 01:18:54,771 are starting to influence our way of life, our politics, 1334 01:18:54,855 --> 01:18:58,275 and our decision-makers, our political parties. 1335 01:18:59,568 --> 01:19:02,028 Jho Low was trying to influence American elections. 1336 01:19:02,112 --> 01:19:04,114 He was getting money to the Obama campaign. 1337 01:19:04,197 --> 01:19:06,491 Later on, he was trying to get money to people 1338 01:19:06,575 --> 01:19:08,910 around the Trump campaign and the Trump administration. 1339 01:19:10,537 --> 01:19:14,750 Frank White had connections to the Obama family 1340 01:19:14,833 --> 01:19:17,294 and was targeted by Jho Low 1341 01:19:17,377 --> 01:19:22,924 and hired for some very improbable business deals. 1342 01:19:23,008 --> 01:19:25,469 That leads into Jho Low then getting an invitation 1343 01:19:25,552 --> 01:19:28,180 to the White House holiday party that year. 1344 01:19:29,264 --> 01:19:31,641 {\an8}Cut to April 2014. 1345 01:19:31,725 --> 01:19:34,936 {\an8}Obama is on his first official state visit to Malaysia, 1346 01:19:35,020 --> 01:19:39,191 where he takes a selfie with Prime Minister Najib Razak. 1347 01:19:40,692 --> 01:19:43,320 {\an8}Elliot Broidy, a former Republican 1348 01:19:43,403 --> 01:19:45,697 {\an8}national committee deputy finance chair, 1349 01:19:45,781 --> 01:19:50,869 was also implicated in the Jho Low and 1MDB scandal. 1350 01:19:50,952 --> 01:19:54,247 Broidy and his wife told Jho Low's representatives 1351 01:19:54,331 --> 01:19:56,792 they could make the Justice Department probe go away. 1352 01:19:58,126 --> 01:20:00,670 His aspirations went from getting rich, 1353 01:20:00,754 --> 01:20:04,049 and then it gradually came to global influence, global power, 1354 01:20:04,132 --> 01:20:06,343 to play a role between countries, 1355 01:20:06,426 --> 01:20:08,470 and he actually succeeded at becoming that person. 1356 01:20:10,722 --> 01:20:14,184 In finance, we use the phrase "extract value" 1357 01:20:14,267 --> 01:20:16,269 as if that's what we do. 1358 01:20:16,353 --> 01:20:17,979 That's parasitic. 1359 01:20:18,063 --> 01:20:19,648 "What value did you contribute" 1360 01:20:19,731 --> 01:20:22,317 is what we should be asking. 1361 01:20:22,400 --> 01:20:25,153 We need to learn that we're interdependent with each other. 1362 01:20:26,071 --> 01:20:30,450 It is an unjust, oppressive system, 1363 01:20:30,534 --> 01:20:32,244 this unbridled capitalism 1364 01:20:32,327 --> 01:20:35,831 enriching the few at the expense of the vast majority. 1365 01:20:38,250 --> 01:20:39,459 So I think, "What is the answer?" 1366 01:20:39,543 --> 01:20:41,002 The answer is back to the people. 1367 01:20:43,588 --> 01:20:46,842 In a lot of corruption cases, in money laundering cases, 1368 01:20:46,925 --> 01:20:48,510 there is this perception sometimes 1369 01:20:48,593 --> 01:20:51,763 {\an8}that these financial crimes don't have victims, 1370 01:20:51,847 --> 01:20:53,181 and that really is not true. 1371 01:20:53,265 --> 01:20:56,184 Someone still has to pay back these bonds 1372 01:20:56,268 --> 01:20:58,603 and all the interest payments on these bonds, 1373 01:20:58,687 --> 01:21:00,313 'cause it's not gonna be Jho 1374 01:21:00,397 --> 01:21:02,357 and it's not gonna be Prime Minister Najib. 1375 01:21:02,440 --> 01:21:04,734 It's the Malaysian government that's holding the bag. 1376 01:21:05,819 --> 01:21:07,863 They're gonna have to then turn to their people, 1377 01:21:07,946 --> 01:21:10,073 and the schools that they were gonna use it for, 1378 01:21:10,156 --> 01:21:12,075 the hospitals, the infrastructure, 1379 01:21:12,158 --> 01:21:14,411 the economic development that they really wanted to do 1380 01:21:14,494 --> 01:21:15,787 is not gonna happen now. 1381 01:21:17,873 --> 01:21:21,626 I sell skewers, steamboat, and barbeque. 1382 01:21:21,710 --> 01:21:23,253 1MDB? 1383 01:21:23,336 --> 01:21:24,963 I am illiterate, I don't know. 1384 01:21:27,507 --> 01:21:31,428 The opportunity cost for Malaysia's economic future 1385 01:21:31,511 --> 01:21:34,848 {\an8}is that you can't get to that higher level 1386 01:21:34,931 --> 01:21:38,810 {\an8}in terms of the incomes that your citizens earn. 1387 01:21:38,894 --> 01:21:39,895 They're stuck there. 1388 01:21:41,479 --> 01:21:45,442 We are trapped, whether we are to truly transition 1389 01:21:45,525 --> 01:21:47,652 {\an8}from a developing country to a developed country, 1390 01:21:47,736 --> 01:21:49,112 {\an8}or whether we will regress further. 1391 01:22:16,806 --> 01:22:18,725 We begin with breaking news out of Malaysia. 1392 01:22:18,808 --> 01:22:21,311 A partnership that emerged to rid Malaysia 1393 01:22:21,394 --> 01:22:23,563 of corruption and economic stagnation 1394 01:22:23,647 --> 01:22:25,732 has collapsed. 1395 01:22:25,815 --> 01:22:28,485 So, people do expect the new government 1396 01:22:28,568 --> 01:22:30,528 to undertake massive change. 1397 01:22:30,612 --> 01:22:32,948 Once you delay, they'll punish you. 1398 01:22:33,031 --> 01:22:35,408 Mahathir Mohamad's sudden resignation 1399 01:22:35,492 --> 01:22:38,036 has thrown the country into uncertainty. 1400 01:22:38,119 --> 01:22:39,996 The PH government fell for one reason. 1401 01:22:40,080 --> 01:22:42,499 The prime minister of the day just resigned 1402 01:22:42,582 --> 01:22:44,250 without telling anybody. 1403 01:22:44,334 --> 01:22:47,295 {\an8}All the cabinet ministers went to the office 1404 01:22:47,379 --> 01:22:50,256 {\an8}on the morning of Monday, the 24th of February, 1405 01:22:50,340 --> 01:22:52,050 {\an8}thinking they were ministers, 1406 01:22:52,133 --> 01:22:54,427 and at five o'clock in the evening of the same day, 1407 01:22:54,511 --> 01:22:55,845 they were sacked. 1408 01:22:55,929 --> 01:23:00,350 {\an8}Anwar was putting a lot of pressure on Mahathir 1409 01:23:00,433 --> 01:23:03,728 {\an8}to fulfill his promise to hand over power, 1410 01:23:03,812 --> 01:23:05,772 but which Mahathir refused. 1411 01:23:05,855 --> 01:23:09,526 They came together to remove Najib. That they did. 1412 01:23:09,609 --> 01:23:11,861 But then coming together to work as a government, 1413 01:23:11,945 --> 01:23:13,196 that's a different story. 1414 01:23:16,574 --> 01:23:18,535 I had seen it in other countries around the world. 1415 01:23:19,661 --> 01:23:22,038 The opposition, once they come into government, 1416 01:23:22,122 --> 01:23:23,665 seems unable to govern. 1417 01:23:23,748 --> 01:23:26,001 They can't get their act together, 1418 01:23:26,084 --> 01:23:29,129 and the next thing you know, they vote the crooks back in power again. 1419 01:23:34,843 --> 01:23:37,512 The past two years have shown us that, 1420 01:23:37,595 --> 01:23:40,390 Malaysians, our frustrations 1421 01:23:40,473 --> 01:23:46,021 run deeper than these most recent political battles. 1422 01:23:47,063 --> 01:23:49,524 {\an8}What do you know of Najib? 1423 01:23:50,150 --> 01:23:55,905 {\an8}I don't read or watch the news. I don't know much about him. 1424 01:23:56,531 --> 01:23:59,200 {\an8}I work at sea and don't have time for these things. 1425 01:24:05,081 --> 01:24:07,167 The biggest problem I have faced is the tsunami. 1426 01:24:07,250 --> 01:24:09,127 My boat went down with the waves. 1427 01:24:09,836 --> 01:24:12,547 That's all I know. 1428 01:24:20,180 --> 01:24:22,474 In the last one or two years, 1429 01:24:22,557 --> 01:24:25,727 his popularity has risen incredibly. 1430 01:24:25,810 --> 01:24:28,480 That's an objective fact and I cannot explain that. 1431 01:24:28,563 --> 01:24:29,522 Let's go! 1432 01:24:29,606 --> 01:24:33,276 Our frustration is rooted in knowing 1433 01:24:33,359 --> 01:24:36,571 that no matter how hard they work, 1434 01:24:36,654 --> 01:24:39,574 the deck is stacked against them. 1435 01:24:39,657 --> 01:24:40,700 The biggest problem is 1436 01:24:40,784 --> 01:24:46,915 {\an8}the political will to handle basic needs of the society. 1437 01:24:46,998 --> 01:24:49,751 There is budget because our country is rich! 1438 01:24:49,834 --> 01:24:52,378 We have oil. We have Petronas. 1439 01:24:52,462 --> 01:24:53,338 We have palm oil. 1440 01:24:53,421 --> 01:24:56,633 We are the second biggest exporter in the world. 1441 01:24:56,716 --> 01:25:00,720 It's a, I would say, the diversion of funds 1442 01:25:00,804 --> 01:25:03,932 for some party and political. 1443 01:25:04,474 --> 01:25:06,976 They want to stay in power, you know? 1444 01:25:08,019 --> 01:25:12,774 There are those within the society 1445 01:25:12,857 --> 01:25:17,529 {\an8}who are more than happy to glorify a crook, 1446 01:25:18,655 --> 01:25:22,617 who are willing to betray our future 1447 01:25:22,700 --> 01:25:26,996 in exchange for favors and political patronage. 1448 01:25:28,373 --> 01:25:29,666 It's rooted in a fear 1449 01:25:29,749 --> 01:25:33,962 that their kids won't be better off than they were, 1450 01:25:34,045 --> 01:25:39,926 and that is a dangerous and growing inequality. 1451 01:25:40,593 --> 01:25:46,933 There are many politicians who only talk, but don't take action. 1452 01:25:47,851 --> 01:25:52,564 Malaysian democracy is at a critical juncture, 1453 01:25:52,647 --> 01:25:55,441 at a juncture in which we could potentially regress 1454 01:25:56,359 --> 01:25:59,571 and forever be stuck in a developing country status, 1455 01:26:00,822 --> 01:26:02,824 or one in which we could turbocharge 1456 01:26:02,907 --> 01:26:05,618 to make Malaysia a developed and dignified country. 1457 01:26:05,702 --> 01:26:07,745 We have not matured as a democracy. 1458 01:26:08,246 --> 01:26:12,542 Poor governance and therefore fragile institutions 1459 01:26:12,625 --> 01:26:16,588 has led to massive endemic corruption. 1460 01:26:18,006 --> 01:26:23,052 Our country needs to invest more in development. 1461 01:26:23,678 --> 01:26:28,099 Talk less, act more. 1462 01:26:45,408 --> 01:26:47,535 Do you hope to be prime minister again? 1463 01:26:47,619 --> 01:26:50,121 My intention now is to clear my name, 1464 01:26:50,205 --> 01:26:53,416 and we hope that the system will give us a fair hearing. 1465 01:26:54,584 --> 01:26:56,502 Do you think you'll be successful in clearing your name? 1466 01:26:56,586 --> 01:26:58,796 Who knows about the future? Who knows? 1467 01:27:02,050 --> 01:27:05,345 It's just not Najib. It's systemic. 1468 01:27:06,054 --> 01:27:12,393 Najib is, of course, the icon of that corrupt establishment, 1469 01:27:12,477 --> 01:27:16,481 but the system has been totally compromised. 1470 01:27:17,815 --> 01:27:19,734 We are not fighting against one man. 1471 01:27:20,985 --> 01:27:26,407 We are actually challenging an entrenched corrupt system. 1472 01:27:26,491 --> 01:27:28,451 I don't have a choice. 1473 01:27:29,118 --> 01:27:30,828 In the years that I still have, 1474 01:27:30,912 --> 01:27:34,123 I will continue to endeavor for change and reform, 1475 01:27:34,207 --> 01:27:37,835 and I think this country and Malaysians 1476 01:27:37,919 --> 01:27:40,255 deserve something better. 1477 01:27:49,973 --> 01:27:51,182 Was it worth it? 1478 01:27:53,726 --> 01:27:55,770 I would still do whatever we did again. 1479 01:27:58,648 --> 01:28:01,150 I still have some hope that 1480 01:28:01,651 --> 01:28:03,945 justice is gonna be served in this. 1481 01:28:11,911 --> 01:28:14,414 We used to see these apartment buildings go up and wonder, 1482 01:28:14,497 --> 01:28:16,291 who's actually gonna afford 1483 01:28:16,374 --> 01:28:18,459 to live in those luxury apartments everywhere? 1484 01:28:22,672 --> 01:28:27,343 And then you come down here. This is the real Malaysia. 1485 01:28:30,805 --> 01:28:32,682 Are these people's lives better today? 1486 01:28:34,267 --> 01:28:36,227 Are they making a better life 1487 01:28:36,311 --> 01:28:38,438 for themselves and their children? 1488 01:28:53,870 --> 01:28:58,082 I hope in the future, my children will be successful. 1489 01:28:58,166 --> 01:29:00,918 Earn a good salary. 1490 01:29:01,002 --> 01:29:03,588 Be able to afford a home. 1491 01:29:03,671 --> 01:29:06,341 Right now, housing costs are too expensive. 1492 01:29:32,408 --> 01:29:35,411 - Where do you think Jho Low is? - I have no idea. 1493 01:29:37,080 --> 01:29:39,999 In fact, the police should be able to answer that question. 1494 01:29:40,083 --> 01:29:42,126 - Okay, okay. - Please wear a mask. 1495 01:29:43,669 --> 01:29:46,255 Why have the Malaysian police been unable to locate Jho Low? 1496 01:29:46,339 --> 01:29:47,590 You'll have to ask them. 1497 01:29:47,673 --> 01:29:49,967 Okay. All right. 1498 01:29:51,302 --> 01:29:52,637 Please wear a mask. 1499 01:30:00,686 --> 01:30:02,772 Jho Low? I heard about him 1500 01:30:03,773 --> 01:30:06,275 usually on the news. 1501 01:30:06,359 --> 01:30:08,402 It's an old story already. 1502 01:30:08,486 --> 01:30:09,779 Nothing's changed. 1503 01:30:13,991 --> 01:30:16,035 Under our criminal law system, 1504 01:30:16,119 --> 01:30:19,789 the accused must be in the dock physically, 1505 01:30:19,872 --> 01:30:23,000 which is why Jho Low's prosecution never took off. 1506 01:30:23,084 --> 01:30:24,669 He's not physically in Malaysia. 1507 01:30:28,714 --> 01:30:31,843 If he's still alive, I believe he's in China. 1508 01:30:33,427 --> 01:30:37,181 My best guess is Jho is between this triangle of cities. 1509 01:30:37,265 --> 01:30:40,434 Macau. Hong Kong. Shenzhen. 1510 01:30:41,519 --> 01:30:42,812 He's been laying low for a long time. 1511 01:30:44,897 --> 01:30:47,567 The Chinese made a calculation that 1512 01:30:47,650 --> 01:30:49,902 it was in their interest to allow Jho Low 1513 01:30:49,986 --> 01:30:53,865 to remain there in China when the scandal broke. 1514 01:30:54,574 --> 01:30:58,035 Jho obviously has some level of value to them. 1515 01:30:59,078 --> 01:31:01,956 I do think, though, that that value is perishable. 1516 01:31:10,590 --> 01:31:14,010 He is responsible for killing Malaysian democracy 1517 01:31:14,093 --> 01:31:16,429 and hurting the lives of millions of Malaysians, 1518 01:31:16,512 --> 01:31:18,055 and we need to do whatever we can 1519 01:31:18,139 --> 01:31:20,975 to ensure that he's brought back to face justice. 1520 01:31:30,151 --> 01:31:35,489 There is times in your life that you have choices to make... 1521 01:31:39,535 --> 01:31:41,329 that are important choices. 1522 01:31:49,754 --> 01:31:51,255 If you love your country, 1523 01:31:55,134 --> 01:31:56,260 you have to act. 1524 01:32:15,613 --> 01:32:17,406 Jho Low is still out there. 1525 01:32:18,574 --> 01:32:22,036 I don't know if we'll ever have a full closure in this case. 1526 01:32:22,536 --> 01:32:26,082 I hope so someday, but I don't know if we'll ever get there. 1527 01:32:27,458 --> 01:32:31,295 I think corruption is so damaging to our world. 1528 01:32:31,379 --> 01:32:33,589 I'm proud that I had the opportunity in my career 1529 01:32:33,673 --> 01:32:36,467 to fight it in some way, and some successful and some not, 1530 01:32:36,550 --> 01:32:39,762 but you never get the full satisfaction of that 1531 01:32:39,845 --> 01:32:41,430 and that's the frustrating part. 1532 01:32:43,140 --> 01:32:45,643 You never get that full closure. 1533 01:32:45,726 --> 01:32:48,604 You never feel like, you know, you've done enough. 1534 01:32:52,316 --> 01:32:53,359 I love this country. 1535 01:32:55,194 --> 01:33:00,074 Somewhere deep down, I still have to retain hope that 1536 01:33:00,157 --> 01:33:01,450 things are gonna work out. 1537 01:33:02,660 --> 01:33:05,955 I just hope people here too don't give up hope. 120234

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