All language subtitles for Cropsey.2009.720p.WEBRip.x264.AAC-[YTS.MX]

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>> GROWING UP ON STATEN ISLAND,

BARBARA AND I HAD OFTEN HEARD

THE LEGEND OF CROPSEY.

FOR THE KIDS IN OUR

NEIGHBORHOOD, CROPSEY WAS THE

ESCAPED MENTAL PATIENT WHO LIVED

IN THE TUNNELS BENEATH THE OLD,

ABANDONED WILLOWBROOK MENTAL

INSTITUTION...

WHO WOULD COME OUT LATE AT NIGHT

AND SNATCH CHILDREN OFF THE

STREETS.

ALTHOUGH WE DIDN'T KNOW EACH

OTHER AS CHILDREN, BARBARA AND I

HAD BOTH SHARED VERSIONS OF THE

CROPSEY LEGEND AS IT FILTERED

THROUGH OUR SEPARATE

NEIGHBORHOODS AND SEEPED INTO

OUR COLLECTIVE FEARS.

SOMETIMES CROPSEY HAD A HOOK FOR

A HAND.

OTHER TIMES HE WIELDED A BLOODY

AX.

BUT IT DIDN'T MATTER.

CROPSEY WAS OUT THERE, LURKING

IN THE SHADOWS, WAITING TO GET

US.

>> WE'RE -- WE'RE GONNA GET HER

BACK.

[ SOBBING ]

>> OKAY.

>> LATER, AS TEENAGERS, WE

ASSUMED CROPSEY WAS JUST AN

URBAN LEGEND, A CAUTIONARY TALE

USED TO KEEP US OUT OF THOSE

BUILDINGS -- TO STOP US FROM

DOING ALL THOSE THINGS THAT

TEENAGERS LIKE TO DO.

BUT ALL THAT CHANGED THE SUMMER

LITTLE JENNIFER DISAPPEARED.

THAT WAS THE SUMMER ALL THE KIDS

FROM STATEN ISLAND DISCOVERED

THAT THEIR URBAN LEGEND...

WAS REAL.

STATEN ISLAND IS ONE OF THE FIVE

BOROUGHS OF NEW YORK CITY.

FOR THE PAST CENTURY, THE ISLAND

WAS MOSTLY JUST FARMLAND AND

WOODS --

THAT WAS, UNTIL THEY BUILT THE

VERRAZANO BRIDGE IN '64.

NOW IT'S HOME TO NEARLY HALF A

MILLION PEOPLE.

>> BEFORE THE VERRAZANO BRIDGE

WAS BUILT, THAT'S ALL IT WAS.

IT WAS JUST THIS ISLAND, THIS

FORGOTTEN ISLAND.

ALL THE CHILDREN OF BROOKLYN,

YOU KNOW, WANTED THEIR OWN HOME,

AND EVERYBODY WANTS LAND.

YOU HAVE A DOG, YOU LET HIM OUT

THE BACKYARD, JUST LIKE, YOU

KNOW, "FATHER KNOWS BEST."

>> IT CAN BE PRETTY QUIET.

I MEAN, EVEN THOUGH MANHATTAN

IS, LIKE, RIGHT ACROSS THE

WATER, IT'S DEFINITELY A

DIFFERENT LIFE OUT HERE.

IF YOU TRAVEL AROUND SOMETIMES,

PEOPLE WOULD SAY, "OH, RIGHT,

THAT'S WHERE THE LARGEST GARBAGE

DUMP WAS.

AND, YOU KNOW, RUMOR HAS IT YOU

COULD SEE IT FROM OUTER SPACE."

SO ONE BIG GARBAGE DUMP.

>> IT WAS THE LEAST-POPULATED,

MOST HEAVILY WOODED BOROUGH.

FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, LIKE,

THIS IS A BIG DUMPING GROUND FOR

MOB BODIES.

SOMEONE NEEDS TO BE DISPOSED OF,

IT'S LIKE, "LET'S BRING THEM TO

STATEN ISLAND."

>> IT'S LIKE THERE'S ALMOST TOO

MANY SPACES TO GO TO TO BE

ISOLATED AND ALONE AND DO

WHATEVER YOU WANT.

SO IF YOU HAVE A BAD IDEA IN

YOUR HEAD, YOU CAN DO IT THERE.

>> ACROSS THE MIDDLE OF THE

ISLAND LIES A SECTION OF ANCIENT

FOREST KNOWN AS THE GREENBELT.

BORDERING THIS FOREST IS A

BOY SCOUT CAMP AND AN OLD

TUBERCULOSIS WARD.

AS KIDS, WE USED TO ROAM AROUND

THESE GROUNDS, TRYING TO SCARE

EACH OTHER WITH STORIES ABOUT

CROPSEY.

>> IS THAT POUCH CAMP OVER

TO THE LEFT?

>> NO, THAT'S JCC CAMP OVER TO

THE LEFT.

AND RIGHT HERE -- THIS IS

SEA VIEW, THE T.B. WARDS.

OUR CAMP COUNSELORS WOULD LEAD

US DOWN THIS PATH, AND THEY'D

COME OUT OF THE BUILDINGS AND

SCARE US.

YOU KNOW, THIS IS WHERE WE

THOUGHT THAT CROPSEY LIVED -- IN

THE BASEMENTS DOWN IN HERE AND

IN THESE OTHER BUILDINGS.

AND, YOU KNOW, WE USED TO WALK

THROUGH HERE, AND YOU'D FIND

BEDS AND PAPERS OF PEOPLE WHO

HAD DIED HERE.

SO, YOU KNOW, IT KIND OF MADE

SENSE TO US.

>> "CROPSEY," FOR SOME REASON,

BECAME THE GENERIC TERM FOR A

MANIAC IN BOY SCOUT CAMPS UP AND

DOWN THE HUDSON RIVER REGION OF

NEW YORK STATE.

SO IT WOULD'VE MADE PERFECT

SENSE FOR A STORY ABOUT A

MANIAC WHO WAS HIDING OUT IN THE

WOODS AND WHO ABDUCTED AND

KILLED LITTLE CHILDREN TO BE

CALLED CROPSEY.

>> FIRST LEARNED ABOUT CROPSEY

IN SUMMER CAMP.

>> HE WAS A DOCTOR.

>> HE WAS SUPPOSED TO HAVE A

HOOK.

>> WITH A KNIFE ABOUT THIS BIG.

>> AND HE WAS AN AX-WIELDING

MADMAN.

>> THE WIFE WAS KILLED.

>> HE WAS BEING CHASED OR

TAUNTED.

>> HE WANTED KIDS.

AND HE WOULD FIND THEM AND...

>> HE WOULD HACK YOU UP.

>> ...CHOP 'EM UP.

>> "DON'T GO BEHIND THE SHERWOOD

BUNKS.

CROPSEY'S OUT THERE."

>> "MAKE SURE YOU GET OFF AT THE

MALL.

DON'T CONTINUE TO GO ANY

FURTHER."

>> "DON'T GO DOWN BY THE LAKE AT

NIGHT.

CROPSEY'S DOWN THERE."

>> "NO, DON'T GO NEAR

WILLOWBROOK PARK.

WILLOWBROOK PARK IS DANGEROUS."

>> THERE ARE MANY COMMUNITIES

THAT HAVE A SUBTERRANEAN

HISTORY, A HOUSE WHERE

UNSPEAKABLE THINGS ARE SAID TO

HAVE HAPPENED, AN INSTITUTION

WHERE PEOPLE WERE...

SEGREGATED FROM THE REST OF

SOCIETY.

>> WE GOT PICTURES OF SEA VIEW.

THESE ARE LIKE OVERALL,

BIRD'S-EYE VIEW OF, YOU KNOW,

THE HOSPITAL.

THIS INCLUDED THE TUBERCULOSIS

WARDS.

>> THIS INCLUDED TUBERCULOSIS

WARDS?

>> YES.

AND ALSO ON THIS PROPERTY HERE

WERE A HOSPITAL FOR CONTAGIOUS

DISEASES, AND THEN IT GOT THE

MORGUE AND THE CEMETERY.

WELL, THIS WAS ACROSS THE STREET

IN THE FARM COLONY, WHICH WAS

LIKE A DIFFERENT PART OF THE

HOSPITAL.

THEY CALLED IT THE "POOR FARM."

OKAY, HERE WE HAVE THEOR FARM."

HALLORAN HOSPITAL IN

WILLOWBROOK.

>> RIGHT. IT WAS HALLORAN, AND

THEN IT BECAME THE

WILLOWBROOK STATE SCHOOL.

>> EXACTLY.

>> WILLOWBROOK WAS STRICTLY FOR

THE MENTALLY ILL?

>> YES.

>> BACK IN 1972, THE

WILLOWBROOK STATE SCHOOL WAS THE

SUBJECT OF A FAMOUS EXPOSé BY A

YOUNG REPORTER LOOKING FOR HIS

BIG BREAK.

>> I FIRST HEARD OF THIS BIG

PLACE WITH THE PRETTY-SOUNDING

NAME BECAUSE OF A CALL I

RECEIVED FROM A MEMBER OF THE

WILLOWBROOK STAFF, A

DR. MICHAEL WILKINS.

THE DOCTOR INVITED ME TO SEE

THE CONDITIONS HE WAS TALKING

ABOUT, SO UNANNOUNCED AND

UNEXPECTED BY THE SCHOOL

ADMINISTRATION, WE TOURED

BUILDING NUMBER SIX.

THE DOCTOR HAD WARNED ME THAT IT

WOULD BE BAD.

IT WAS HORRIBLE.

THERE WAS ONE ATTENDANT FOR

PERHAPS 50 SEVERELY AND

PROFOUNDLY RETARDED CHILDREN.

LYING ON THE FLOOR NAKED AND

SMEARED WITH THEIR OWN FECES,

THEY WERE MAKING A PITIFUL

SOUND, A KIND OF MOURNFUL WAIL

THAT IT'S IMPOSSIBLE FOR ME TO

FORGET.

THIS IS WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE.

THIS IS WHAT IT SOUNDED LIKE.

BUT HOW CAN I TELL YOU ABOUT THE

WAY IT SMELLED?

IT SMELLED OF FILTH, IT SMELLED

OF DISEASE, AND IT SMELLED OF

DEATH.

>> DESPITE GERALDO'S REPORT, IT

STILL TOOK MORE THAN 10 YEARS

BEFORE AUTHORITIES BEGAN

SHUTTING DOWN WILLOWBROOK.

MANY PATIENTS WERE TRANSFERRED

TO GROUP HOMES, BUT OTHERS WERE

LEFT TO FEND FOR THEMSELVES.

THERE ARE THOSE WHO BELIEVE THAT

SOME PATIENTS, OUT OF CONFUSION

AND HABIT, RETURNED TO THE 365

ACRES OF WILLOWBROOK TO ROAM THE

ABANDONED BUILDINGS AND LIVE IN

THE TUNNEL SYSTEM THAT LAY

UNDERNEATH.

OUT OF THIS, OUR OWN VERSION OF

THE CROPSEY LEGEND WAS BORN.

>> AT WHAT POINT, THOUGH, IN

YOUR LIFE DID YOU START TO

REALIZE, "HEY, MAYBE CROPSEY IS

REAL?"

>> WHEN KIDS STARTED

DISAPPEARING FROM STATEN ISLAND.

>> YOU'RE WATCHING CHANNEL 7,

EYEWITNESS NEWS.

>> HI, GUYS. LISTEN.

WE NEED ALL THE HELP WE CAN TO

HELP FIND JENNIFER.

>> THE RELENTLESS SEARCH FOR A

12-YEAR-OLD GIRL WITH DOWN

SYNDROME CONTINUES TODAY AS IT

HAS FOR THE LAST THREE WEEKS,

WITH THE HOPE THAT THIS WILL BE

THE DAY THEY FIND

JENNIFER SCHWEIGER.

>> SHE'S VERY FRIENDLY, VERY

HAPPY.

SHE'S A DOLL.

VERY LOVING.

YOU KNOW, THAT'S A DOWN SYNDROME

CHILD'S NATURE.

>> INSTEAD OF LYING IN THE SUN

TODAY, I FIGURED I'D COME OUT

AND JUST HELP.

>> COULD BE ONE OF OUR OWN

CHILDREN, YOU KNOW, THAT WAS

KIDNAPPED OR, YOU KNOW, MOLESTED

ANYWAYS.

>> MAYBE IT'S JENNIFER'S ADDED

VULNERABILITY OF HAVING DOWN

SYNDROME OR POSSIBLY THE

CLOSE-KNIT FEELINGS OF

STATEN ISLANDERS AT HAVING ONE

OF THEIR CHILDREN MISSING, BUT

EVERY DAY, MORE AND MORE

VOLUNTEERS TURN OUT, SEARCHING

THROUGH THE WOODS AND HITTING

THE STREETS, HOPING TO PUT AN

END TO THE SCHWEIGER FAMILY

ORDEAL.

SO MANY PEOPLE TURNED OUT FOR

THIS SEARCH.

EVERYBODY FELT THAT...

THIS WAS ONE OF THEIR OWN THAT

HAD DISAPPEARED.

THEY WOULD SHOW UP AT THE

FIREHOUSE WITH FLASHLIGHTS,

READY TO GO INTO WILLOWBROOK,

WILLING TO GO INTO THE FOREST,

INTO THE TUNNELS UNDERNEATH.

THERE WAS ONE FAMILY IN

PARTICULAR, DONNA CUTUGNO, AND

SOME OF HER FRIENDS AND

NEIGHBORS WHO HAD STEPPED

FORWARD TO ORGANIZE SEARCHES.

>> TODAY, WE'RE CONCENTRATING ON

WILLOWBROOK PARK.

THE POLICE WENT IN THERE

YESTERDAY, AND WE'RE JUST

CONTINUING WHERE THE POLICE LEFT

OFF.

THIS IS WHAT WILLOWBROOK LOOKED

LIKE WHEN WE WERE IN HERE.

I'LL NEVER FORGET THE FIRST TIME

I WENT INTO ONE OF THESE

BUILDINGS.

IT WAS REALLY BLOOD-CURDLING,

BECAUSE HERE WAS THE FIRST TIME

I WAS ACTUALLY IN THESE

BUILDINGS I HEARD THESE HORRIBLE

STORIES ABOUT.

AND AS YOU WALK THROUGH,

COMPLETELY EMPTY.

YOU STILL HEAR, YOU FEEL IT.

YOU COULD ALMOST FEEL THE

CHILDREN'S PRESENCE THERE OR

THE ADULTS' PRESENCE THERE.

AND IT'S SOMETHING YOU NEVER GET

USED TO.

WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING, MAKE SURE

YOU LOOK DOWN ON THE GROUND.

LOOK UP IN THE TREES.

ANYTHING YOU FIND, THE POLICE

CAN GET A LOT OF INFORMATION

FROM IT.

IN OUR SEARCHING, WHAT WE FOUND

WAS A NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT

ACTUALLY LIVED HERE WHEN

WILLOWBROOK WAS UP AND RUNNING

AND IN FULL SWING TEND TO COME

BACK HERE.

SO THERE WAS A WHOLE...

UNDERGROUND OF PEOPLE THAT STILL

LIVED HERE, EVEN THOUGH ALL THE

BUILDINGS WERE CLOSED, AND

ANDRE RAND WAS DEFINITELY

ONE OF THEM.

>> ANDRE RAND WORKED AS AN

ORDERLY AT THE

WILLOWBROOK STATE SCHOOL FROM

1966 TO 1968.

FOR YEARS HE LIVED IN NUMEROUS

MAKESHIFT CAMPSITES IN THE WOODS

SURROUNDING WILLOWBROOK.

HE WAS ALSO THE LEAD SUSPECT IN

THE JENNIFER SCHWEIGER CASE.

>> THERE WAS TWO WITNESSES THAT

STATED THAT THEY SAW HER WALKING

ALONG THE STREET WITH A

MIDDLE-AGED GENTLEMAN, AND HE

HAD A FEMALE GREEN BIKE WITH A

BASKET ON THE FRONT OF IT.

THE WEEK BEFORE, I WAS IN

ShopRite, AND I SAW RAND.

I RECOGNIZED HIM FROM A PRIOR

CASE.

HE PURCHASED BABY FOOD, AND HE

GOT ON A GREEN FEMALE BIKE WITH

A BASKET ON THE FRONT.

AT THAT POINT, BAM, I SAID,

"IT'S ANDRE.

I SAW HIM LAST WEEK."

>> RAND WAS IMMEDIATELY BROUGHT

IN AND QUESTIONED IN THE GIRL'S

DISAPPEARANCE BUT RELEASED FOR

LACK OF EVIDENCE.

AFTER FOUR WEEKS OF SURVEILLANCE

IN HOPES OF FINDING JENNIFER

ALIVE, HE WAS ARRESTED.

RAND HAD BEEN FAMILIAR TO POLICE

AFTER PLEADING GUILTY TO SEXUAL

MISCONDUCT WITH A 9-YEAR-OLD

GIRL BACK IN 1969 -- A CRIME

WHICH HE DENIED.

>> GOOD AFTERNOON.

HERE'S WHAT'S HAPPENING.

A HOMELESS MAN, 43-YEAR-OLD

ANDRE RAND, IS UNDER ARREST.

HE IS CHARGED WITH THE

KIDNAPPING OF 12-YEAR-OLD

JENNIFER SCHWEIGER.

THE SUSPECT WAS PICKED UP LAST

NIGHT HERE AT THE

CHURCH OF THE GOD WITHIN.

POLICE HAD QUESTIONED HIM AS

EARLY AS THE SECOND DAY INTO THE

INVESTIGATION, AND AFTER FOUR

WEEKS OF A MAKING A CASE AGAINST

THE MAN, THEY FINALLY DECIDED

THEY HAD ENOUGH TO GET A

CONVICTION.

I'VE NEVER SEEN A PERP WALK LIKE

THAT.

WATCHING HIM COMING OUT LOOKING

LIKE HE HAD LOST HIS MIND

FURTHER ANGERED PEOPLE IN THE

COMMUNITY.

THAT IMAGE FORCED A LOT OF

PEOPLE TO SAY, "THAT IS THE

KILLER.

THAT MAN IS NOT RIGHT.

LOOK AT HIM THERE, DROOLING."

AND IT CERTAINLY CAUSED ME TO

ASK A LOT OF QUESTIONS.

WHO IS ANDRE RAND?

DID THEY GET A CRAZY MAN AND

JUST SAY HE'S THE GUY, OR DID

THEY REALLY HAVE GOOD EVIDENCE

AGAINST HIM THAT WOULD STICK IN

A COURT?

>> I USED TO TEACH THE

ANDRE RAND STORY IN MY

JOURNALISM CLASS.

COMING DOWN THE STEPS OF THE

COURTHOUSE WITH A HEADLINE,

"DRIFTER ARRESTED."

WELL, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

IT MEANS GUILTY, RIGHT?

WHETHER HE IS OR NOT, I DON'T

KNOW THE WHOLE STORY EITHER.

BUT IT'S A LOT EASIER TO DO IT

THAT WAY THAN TO SAY, "YOU KNOW

WHAT?

IT MIGHT BE SOMEBODY ON YOUR

BLOCK."

[ CHUCKLES ]

"IT MIGHT BE SOMEBODY YOU WORK

WITH."

>> DID YOU EVER THINK THAT

ANYBODY ELSE WAS INVOLVED?

>> WELL, WE ALWAYS HAD TO THINK

THERE WAS SOMEBODY ELSE UNTIL WE

COULD JUST RULE IT OUT.

YOU KNOW, YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO

KEEP THAT IN THE BACK OF YOUR

MIND.

>> AND PLUS, BY GOING BY OUR

WITNESSES, IF YOU CONSIDER OUR

WITNESSES CREDIBLE, IT WAS ONLY

ANDRE AND JENNIFER.

THERE WAS NO OTHER PERSON.

>> OF COURSE, WHEN WE HAD HIM

FOR THE 26 HOURS, WHERE WAS SHE?

DID HE LEAVE HER WITH SOMEBODY

ELSE?

>> WITH RAND'S ARREST, THE

SEARCH FOR JENNIFER TURNED

DESPERATE.

RUMORS WERE SPREADING THAT

SOMEONE, MAYBE EVEN ONE OF

RAND'S FRIENDS, WAS HIDING

JENNIFER AND MOVING HER LATE AT

NIGHT THROUGH THE TUNNELS

UNDERNEATH WILLOWBROOK.

>> I WANT MY DAUGHTER.

I WANT THE MAN TO TALK.

I WANT HIM JUST TO TELL US WHERE

JENNIFER IS.

>> DESPITE CONSTANT THREATS BY

STATE OFFICIALS TO STAY AWAY

FROM WILLOWBROOK, DONNA AND THE

FRIENDS OF JENNIFER KEPT GOING

BACK.

>> THIS AREA HAD BEEN COVERED

THOUSANDS OF TIMES BY

VOLUNTEERS, BY POLICE, BY DOGS.

BUT IN THAT TIME, ONE GENTLEMAN

CAME ACROSS AN AREA THAT HE

NOTICED HAD CLAY BALLS UP ON

TOP, LIKE SOMEONE PATTED DOWN.

AND THEN THIS WAS ALL, YOU KNOW,

PUSHED BACK OVER WITH THE TREES.

IT WAS JUST A LITTLE SPOT THAT

HE NOTICED THE CLAY BALLS.

AND THAT'S WHAT MADE US GO BACK,

OR MADE HIM INSIST THAT WE GO

BACK.

AND GEORGE SHOWED US THE

LOCATION THAT HE THOUGHT...

NEEDED TO BE LOOKED AT.

THE SMELL -- AS SOON AS YOU

START DIGGING...

WE SAW HER TOES.

AND EVERYBODY STOPPED.

FATHER HENRY GAVE HER LAST

RITES.

AND THEY TOOK US OUT OF THE

WOODS.

>> ERNIE, A GRISLY DISCOVERY

BACK HERE TONIGHT, BACK HERE IN

THE 384 ACRES OF THE

STATEN ISLAND DEVELOPMENTAL

CENTER -- AN ARM AND A LEG

STICKING OUT FROM A SHALLOW

GRAVE.

THEY ARE EERIE SHADOWS, POLICE

AND OTHERS AT THE SCENE WHERE

THE BODY OF 12-YEAR-OLD

JENNIFER LYNN SCHWEIGER TONIGHT

WAS FOUND.

POLICE WERE PREVENTING ANYONE

FROM GETTING THIS CLOSE TO THE

SCENE.

EVEN JENNIFER'S FATHER IS KEPT

AWAY.

>> YEAH, JENNIFER'S FATHER'S

HERE.

HE SAYS YOU GAVE HIM PERMISSION

TO COME THROUGH?

>> UNLESS THEY CAN WALK ON

WATER, THEY STAY OUTSIDE.

>> THERE ARE TWO OTHER GIRLS

WHO, OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF

YEARS, HAVE TURNED UP MISSING

HERE ON STATEN ISLAND.

THEY WILL BE SEARCHING THIS AREA

IN THE NEXT FEW DAYS TO SEE WHAT

THEY CAN FIND.

AS ONE POLICE OFFICER TOLD US

TONIGHT, GOD KNOWS WHAT THEY

CAN FIND HERE.

>> THE DISCOVERY OF JENNIFER'S

BODY ONLY 150 YARDS FROM RAND'S

CAMPSITE CONFIRMED EVERYONE'S

WORST NIGHTMARE.

RESIDENTS WERE OUTRAGED, AND

THEY WANTED JUSTICE.

THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY, HOWEVER,

HAD NO PHYSICAL EVIDENCE TYING

RAND WITH JENNIFER'S

DISAPPEARANCE.

THE CASE WAS RELYING ALMOST

ENTIRELY ON EYEWITNESS

TESTIMONY, WHICH MOST EXPERTS

AGREE IS OFTEN UNRELIABLE.

AFTER THE LARGEST CRIMINAL TRIAL

IN STATEN ISLAND HISTORY, RAND

WAS CONVICTED OF KIDNAPPING.

BUT THE MURDER CHARGE WAS

DISMISSED AFTER JURORS COULDN'T

REACH A VERDICT.

RAND WAS SENTENCED 25 YEARS TO

LIFE AND WOULD BE ELIGIBLE FOR

PAROLE IN 2008.

>> STATEN ISLANDERS LIKE TO FIND

EASY SCAPEGOATS, BUT NOT THE

REAL ONES.

AND WE DON'T WANT TO THINK TOO

DEEPLY ABOUT WHAT THIS MEANS FOR

OUR SOCIETY.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT A PLACE LIKE

STATEN ISLAND, IT WAS VIEWED AS

A DUMPING GROUND FOR ALL KINDS

OF THINGS.

THE FRESH KILLS LANDFILL, WHICH

TOOK ALL THE CITY'S GARBAGE,

8 MILLION PEOPLE'S GARBAGE,

DUMPED IN STATEN ISLAND.

THE FARM COLONY WAS A PLACE

WHERE PEOPLE WENT WHO HAD

TUBERCULOSIS.

WILLOWBROOK WAREHOUSED THOUSANDS

OF PEOPLE AND LEFT THEM THERE.

IT WAS A DUMPING GROUND.

WHY WOULD YOU DUMP THEM IN

STATEN ISLAND?

'CAUSE THAT'S WHERE YOU DUMP

THINGS.

SO YOU DUMP KIDS.

WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?

YOU'RE DUMPING GARBAGE, YOU'RE

DUMPING KIDS TO STATEN ISLAND.

DOESN'T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE,

RIGHT?

>> LOOK.

TRAYS FROM THE INSTITUTION.

>> THEY'RE EVERYWHERE.

IT'S MORE ABOUT THE UNDERCURRENT

THAT CANNOT BE TAMED BY BUILDING

OR ORGANIZATION.

YOU PUT A BUNCH OF PEOPLE THAT

ARE MENTALLY ILL, AND YOU PUT A

BUNCH OF PEOPLE THAT ARE

PHYSICALLY ILL, AND YOU BURY

PEOPLE HERE AND THERE, AND YOU

DUMP GARBAGE, AND YOU POISON THE

ENVIRONMENT.

AND THEN YOU SIT AROUND, AND YOU

SCRATCH YOUR HEAD, AND YOU

WONDER, "GEE, WHY ARE THINGS

GOING WRONG?"

OR, "WHY IS THERE A CHILL CAST

OVER THIS STATEN ISLAND, THIS

WONDERFUL PLACE?"

BECAUSE IT'S ABOUT THOSE

UNDERCURRENTS, THOSE THINGS THAT

HAD COME BEFORE.

>> AS CHILDREN, WE WERE DELUDED

BY OUR PARENTS' BELIEF THAT

STATEN ISLAND WAS SUCH A SAFE

PLACE TO GROW UP.

BUT IN REALITY, EVERY COMMUNITY

HAS A SEEDY UNDERSIDE.

EVERY SUBURBIA HAS ITS SECRETS.

WE ONLY DISCOVERED OUR OWN

BECAUSE OF WHAT HAPPENED WITH

JENNIFER...

AND THEN WITH ALL THE OTHER

CHILDREN.

AFTER DONNA CUTUGNO AND HER TEAM

FOUND THE BODY OF

JENNIFER SCHWEIGER, THE POLICE

STARTED CONNECTING THE DOTS.

THEY LOOKED AT OTHER MISSING

CHILDREN FROM STATEN ISLAND.

EVENTUALLY, THEY FOCUSED IN ON

FOUR DIFFERENT CASES SPANNING

OVER 15 YEARS --

TIAHEASE JACKSON, A 10-YEAR-OLD

GIRL WITH LEARNING DISABILITIES

WHO DISAPPEARED FOUR YEARS

BEFORE JENNIFER.

HANK GAFFORIO, 21 BUT WITH THE

I.Q. OF A 15-YEAR-OLD,

DISAPPEARED THREE YEARS BEFORE

JENNIFER.

7-YEAR-OLD HOLLY ANN HUGHES, WHO

WENT MISSING SIX YEARS BEFORE

JENNIFER.

AND FINALLY ALICE PEREIRA, LAST

SEEN 1972, 15 YEARS BEFORE

JENNIFER.

TO THIS DAY, NONE OF THEIR

BODIES HAVE EVER BEEN FOUND.

>> THEY ARE MISSING-PERSON CASES

THAT HAVE OCCURRED ON

STATEN ISLAND THAT HAVE NOT BEEN

RESOLVED.

>> AS KIDS, WE NEVER THOUGHT

WE'D LEARN THE REAL STORY BEHIND

CROPSEY.

INSTEAD, RAND WAS SENT TO

PRISON, AND THE STORIES JUST

FADED AWAY.

BUT NOW, 20 YEARS LATER, WE MAY

GET THE CHANCE TO UNCOVER THE

TRUTH BEHIND OUR URBAN LEGEND.

BECAUSE ANDRE RAND...

IS BACK.

>> ANDRE RAND SCARED A

GENERATION OF PARENTS AND

CHILDREN ON STATEN ISLAND.

CONVICTED IN THE DISAPPEARANCE

OF ONE CHILD IN THE 1980s, HE IS

ONCE AGAIN ON TRIAL FOR

KIDNAPPING.

AFTER SPENDING 17 YEARS IN

PRISON, ANDRE RAND HAS RETURNED

TO STATEN ISLAND TO STAND TRIAL

FOR THE KIDNAPPING OF

7-YEAR-OLD HOLLY ANN HUGHES, WHO

DISAPPEARED TWO DECADES EARLIER.

HER BODY HAS NEVER BEEN FOUND.

>> CAN YOU TELL US IF YOU EVER

MET HOLLY ANN HUGHES?

ANY COMMENT WHATSOEVER, PLEASE.

>> I LOVE MY SISTER VERY MUCH.

IT'S BEEN 20 YEARS.

[ Voice breaking ] SOMETHING

I'VE HAD TO CARRY FOR AN

INCREDIBLY LONG TIME.

AND I MISS HER SO MUCH.

>> YOU KNOW, IT'S, LIKE, NICE TO

SEE THAT FINALLY SHE'S BEING

TREATED LIKE SHE'S A PERSON AND

NOT LIKE A LOST WALLET, YOU

KNOW?

THAT'S PRETTY MUCH LIKE HOW IT'S

BEEN FOR LIKE THE LAST 20 YEARS.

>> STATEN ISLAND TONIGHT, THE

STORY OF ANOTHER MISSING CHILD.

7-YEAR-OLD HOLLY HUGHES

DISAPPEARED ON WEDNESDAY.

SO FAR, NO ONE HAS ANY IDEA WHAT

MIGHT HAVE HAPPENED TO HER.

>> SHE'S VERY OUTGOING, VERY

FRIENDLY.

VERY ADORABLE, I THINK, YOU

KNOW.

>> WE JUST WANT YOU TO BRING

HOLLY HOME...TODAY.

[ Voice breaking ] AND WE'RE --

WE'RE LOOKING FOR HER, AND WE'RE

GOING TO GET HER BACK.

[ SOBBING ]

>> OKAY.

>> THIS IS EDDIE, HOLLY ANN, AND

SEAN.

SHE WAS A VERY WARM LITTLE GIRL.

TYPICAL 7-YEAR-OLD.

YOU KNOW, I MEAN, CUTE AS A

BUTTON.

YOU KNOW, THAT'S PROBABLY ONE OF

THE LAST THINGS THAT YOU EVER

THINK ABOUT THAT COULD POSSIBLY

HAPPEN, THAT SOMEBODY WOULD TAKE

YOUR DAUGHTER.

>> THE MOTHER AND I WEREN'T

CONVERSING AT THE TIME IN A

PROPER WAY BECAUSE WE WERE

HAVING A LITTLE CUSTODY PROBLEM

THERE DURING THAT SEPARATION

PERIOD.

I REMEMBER JUST SEARCHING ALL

NIGHT LONG.

I MEAN EVERYWHERE -- THE TRAIN

TRESTLE, PARK AVENUE -- ANYWHERE

I COULD POSSIBLY THINK OF WHERE

SHE MIGHT BE.

I WAS GETTING VERY STRANGE PHONE

CALLS FROM ANONYMOUS PEOPLE THAT

THEY KNEW WHERE HOLLY ANN WAS.

JUST CRAZY THINGS, YOU KNOW?

UNBELIEVABLE THINGS.

>> BUT NO ONE EVER MENTIONED

ANDRE RAND?

>> NO.

>> RAND WAS INTERVIEWED AND

RELEASED BACK IN 1981 AFTER

BEING SPOTTED ON HOLLY ANN'S

STREET THE DAY SHE DISAPPEARED.

NOW, 20 YEARS LATER, THE D.A.

FINALLY BELIEVES HE HAS ENOUGH

EVIDENCE TO GET A CONVICTION.

HOWEVER, THERE IS ANOTHER ISSUE

THAT CONCERNS LOCAL RESIDENTS.

RAND WILL BE UP FOR PAROLE IN

LESS THAN FOUR YEARS, WHICH

MEANS HE MAY WALK THE STREETS

ONCE AGAIN.

>> WE ARE HERE TODAY IN SUPPORT

FOR HOLLY ANN HUGHES' FAMILY.

THE COMMON THREAD THAT WE SHARE

WITH THE FAMILY IS ANDRE RAND,

THE ALLEGED...

BAD GUY.

>> DOES IT MAKE YOU ANGRY THAT

THIS GUY HAS BEEN OUT THERE

SINCE HOLLY ANN'S DISAPPEARANCE,

AND THEN YOUR DAUGHTER WAS

TAKEN?

>> I THINK THAT IN REALITY,

JENNIFER WAS THE ONE THAT

PROBABLY BROUGHT THIS ALL TO

LIFE FOR THE SIMPLE REASON SHE

WAS FOUND, NUMBER ONE, AND IT

OPENED THE CASE FOR

HOLLY ANN HUGHES.

>> CASES LIKE THIS NEVER GO

AWAY.

IT'S LIKE THE WHOLE COMMUNITY

WAS JUST THROWN INTO CHAOS OVER

THIS.

YOU KNOW, HERE'S THIS GUY,

ALLEGEDLY, GOING AROUND, PICKING

OFF THESE KIDS.

I MEAN, THERE ARE ALL THESE

RUMORS THAT FLY ABOUT THE ISLAND

ABOUT THIS GUY, AND THE MEDIA,

YOU KNOW, HAVE PAINTED HIM AS AN

ABSOLUTE FUCKING MONSTER.

AND HE MAY VERY WELL BE.

THERE'S NO PHYSICAL OR

SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE THAT I KNOW

OF IN THIS CASE.

THERE'S NO BODY.

THEY HAVEN'T FOUND HER.

IT'S ALL CIRCUMSTANTIAL.

>> THEY'VE GONE.

THEY'VE DUG UP GRAVES.

THEY'VE GONE TO HIS OLD

NEIGHBORHOOD.

THEY SEARCHED HIS CAR.

THERE'S NOTHING THAT'S COME UP.

SO I'M COMPLETELY CONFIDENT

THAT, YOU KNOW, HE DIDN'T DO

THIS.

>> SO WHY DO YOU THINK THE D.A.

IS PURSUING THIS CASE?

>> MR. MURPHY JUST RECENTLY

RETIRED.

THIS WAS ONE OF HIS PROBABLY

LAST, BIGGEST INVESTIGATIONS,

THIS RAND CASE, AND PERHAPS HE

WANTED TO PUT THIS BABY TO REST

BEFORE HE LEFT OFFICE.

>> I REMEMBER THE INADEQUACIES

OF THE WITNESS' STATEMENTS BACK

IN 1981 AND 1982.

SOME OF THEM WERE OUT-AND-OUT

ALCOHOLICS WHO JUST DIDN'T HAVE

CLEAR RECOLLECTIONS OF WHAT WAS

GOING ON FROM DAY TO DAY, BUT IN

RECOVERY, THEIR MEMORIES WERE

IMPROVED.

THAT THE ANDRE RAND STORY IS

BEING TOLD IS SIMPLY AN EXAMPLE

OF WHAT CAN BE DONE IF PEOPLE

REMAIN VIGILANT, REMAIN

CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT'S GOING ON

AROUND THEM.

>> 15 YEARS AFTER UNCOVERING THE

BODY OF JENNIFER SCHWEIGER,

DONNA CUTUGNO STILL DIGS AROUND

THE GROUNDS OF THE OLD

WILLOWBROOK STATE SCHOOL, HOPING

TO FIND EVIDENCE OF THE OTHER

CHILDREN.

SO, WHO DO YOU THINK WE'RE

LOOKING FOR?

>> WE'RE LOOKING FOR HOLLY AND

ALICE AND THE REST OF THE

CHILDREN.

>> DO YOU THINK THEY'RE ALL

BURIED HERE?

>> WELL, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT

ALICE.

I DON'T REALLY FEEL THAT SHE'S

HERE.

I DON'T KNOW WHERE SHE WOULD BE.

BUT I THINK THAT...

THE REST OF THEM, INCLUDING

HANK, I THINK MAY BE HERE.

YEAH.

I CAN IMAGINE HOW OTHER

PARENTS -- EVEN IF YOUR KID'S

GONE FOR AN HOUR, I CAN IMAGINE

HOW THEY MUST FEEL, YOU KNOW,

NOT KNOWING.

GOES BACK TO THAT ORIGINAL

FEELING.

COULD'VE BEEN MY CHILDREN.

THEY'RE THE MOST PRECIOUS THING

IN MY LIFE, AND NO ONE'S GONNA

TAKE MY KIDS AWAY FROM ME.

>> HI.

>> HI.

YEAH, THIS IS DEVIN'S ROOM.

HE LOVES "STAR WARS" AND

WORSHIPS GEORGE LUCAS.

>> A LOT OF REASONS WHY MY

CHILDREN WERE ALWAYS INVOLVED IN

THESE THINGS WAS 'CAUSE I WAS SO

AFRAID TO LEAVE THEM.

[ LAUGHS ]

THE WHOLE RAND THING.

SUPPOSE HE GOT OUT ON A

TECHNICALITY.

WOULD HE COME AFTER ME?

YOU KNOW, THAT'S ALWAYS IN THE

BACK OF MY MIND, TILL THIS DAY.

>> FOR YEARS, RAND HAD BEEN

SHUFFLED AROUND VARIOUS NEW YORK

STATE PRISONS, WHERE HE SHARED

CELLBLOCKS WITH THE LIKES OF

DAVID BERKOWITZ, A.K.A.

SON OF SAM, AND CHILD KILLER

JOEL STEINBERG.

IN THE PAST FEW WEEKS, HE HAD

BEEN MOVED TO RIKERS ISLAND FOR

THE UPCOMING TRIAL.

WE HAD SENT HIM LETTERS TRYING

TO ARRANGE AN INTERVIEW BUT GOT

NO RESPONSE.

THEN ON THE DAY BARB AND I

DECIDED TO VISIT HIM

UNANNOUNCED, WE RECEIVED THIS

LETTER.

WHAT DO YOU THINK IT SAYS?

>> HE DOESN'T REALLY SPEAK TO

ANYONE OTHER THAN HIS ATTORNEY,

AND FOR YEARS HE HASN'T SPOKEN

TO THE PRESS.

NOBODY REALLY KNOWS ANYTHING

ABOUT HIM.

HE PUTS OUR PHONE NUMBER AT THE

TOP, AND HE WRITES, "PERSON

ANSWERING THE CALL SHOULD BE

'JOSHUA.'

IF YOU WANT TO RECEIVE BULK

MAILINGS FROM MR. RAND OVER THE

NEXT FEW MONTHS, IT WILL NEED TO

BE DONE BY SENDING RAND A LEGAL

MAILING ADDRESS.

THIS IS NOT SO MUCH AS

CORRESPONDENCE, BUT MORE IN THE

FORM OF DOCUMENTATION.

NOTE, RAND WAS INFORMED BY HIS

ATTORNEY TO ACCEPT ONLY LEGAL

VISITS.

RAND WILL NOT SPEAK TO YOU IN

PERSON ANYTIME SOON BECAUSE OF

POSSIBLE SUBPOENA."

WHAT HE'S SAYING IS, "I'LL

COMMUNICATE WITH YOU, AS LONG AS

WE PLAY BY THE RULES."

[ POLICE RADIO CHATTER ]

>> UNLIKE MANY OTHER STATES,

NEW YORK DOESN'T ALLOW CAMERAS

IN THE COURTROOM, AND SO WE

WOULD BE FORCED TO INTERVIEW

MANY WITNESSES OUT ON THE STREET

OR GET OUR INFORMATION

SECONDHAND.

>> 17 YEARS, WE NEVER STOPPED

TALKING ABOUT IT.

IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S AFFECTED

EVERYBODY THAT I KNOW FROM

STATEN ISLAND, CERTAINLY.

>> EVERYBODY KNEW ABOUT

ANDRE RAND.

>> BUT NOT THE EXTENT.

IN THE BACK OF THEIR MINDS, THEY

DIDN'T REALLY THINK THEY WERE

EVER GONNA CATCH HIM.

>> THERE'S NO REASON FOR HIM TO

EXIST ANYWHERE ELSE, YOU KNOW,

OTHER THAN JAIL.

>> THERE'S THAT GIGANTIC FEAR,

YOU KNOW, WONDERING WHETHER OR

NOT THE BOGEYMAN IS GONNA COME

GET THEIR KIDS.

>> SO, THIS BUILDING IS WHERE

HOLLY ANN HUGHES USED TO LIVE.

ANDRE RAND'S AUNT USED TO LIVE

ON THE SECOND FLOOR OF THAT

BUILDING, AS WELL.

HOLLY WAS OUTSIDE PLAYING ONE

EVENING, AND ANDRE RAND WAS HERE

TO VISIT.

>> AND THEN GOT INTO HIS

VOLKSWAGEN.

APPARENTLY THEN HOLLY WALKED

DOWN THIS STREET TO...

>> THAT DELI RIGHT DOWN THERE.

>> HOLLY WAS LAST SEEN AT THIS

DELI, JUST DOWN THE STREET FROM

HER HOME.

A CLERK SAYS SHE CAME IN AT 9:30

WEDNESDAY NIGHT WITH 27 CENTS

AND BOUGHT A BAR OF SOAP.

>> SHE'S A QUIET GIRL, YOU KNOW?

SHE DIDN'T SAY NOTHING TO

NOBODY.

AND SHE JUST GOT HER THING AND

LEFT.

I REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT

HAPPENED AFTER THAT.

I WORKED IN THE DELI THERE.

GIRL COMES IN.

>> WHO? HOLLY ANN HUGHES?

>> HOLLY ANN. YEAH.

>> SHE CAME IN. WHEN WAS THIS?

THIS WAS IN 1981.

>> 1981.

SHE WENT TO BUY A BAR OF SOAP.

THE BAR OF SOAP WAS 31 CENTS.

WHY DO I REMEMBER?

BECAUSE SHE WAS SHORT FOUR

CENTS.

AND THE OLD MAN WORKING BEHIND

THE COUNTER, HE WOULDN'T GIVE IT

TO HER.

THAT'S WHY I REMEMBER.

WHEN I SEEN HIS PICTURE, I SAID,

"YEAH, I'VE SEEN THAT GUY

BEFORE.

YOU KNOW, HE'S LIKE A QUIET GUY

TO HIMSELF.

HE DON'T LOOK RIGHT."

LIKE I THINK HE TALKED WITH A

SPEECH IMPEDIMENT, BUT I'M NOT

SURE.

>> AND DID ANYBODY ELSE EVER

DISAPPEAR FROM THAT

NEIGHBORHOOD?

>> YEAH. HANK GAFFORIO.

LOOKED JUST LIKE MICK JAGGER.

DISAPPEARED FROM THAT

NEIGHBORHOOD.

>> HOW LONG AFTERWARDS?

>> THE SAME TIME.

HE WAS A LITTLE SLOW -- HANK.

HIS BROTHER SWEARS THAT

ANDRE RAND KILLED HIM.

>> THEY CAME TO ME ALL THOSE

YEARS AGO.

BUT THAT WAS 18 YEARS AGO.

AND THEY SAID, "WE NEED SOME

HELP."

>> HE WAS SUPPOSEDLY AT THE

DINER AT LIKE 3:00, 4:00 IN THE

MORNING WITH RAND.

A HANDFUL OF PEOPLE CAME

FORWARD -- A HANDFUL -- HANDFUL.

AND, AGAIN, HE WAS OLDER.

YOU KNOW, THAT HAD A LOT TO DO

WITH IT.

HE WAS 21.

>> WE WERE WATCHING THIS

REPORTER STANDING IN FRONT OF

HOLLY ANN HUGHES' HOUSE, AND

RIGHT OFF HER SHOULDER IS

HANK GAFFORIO.

>> IT'D BE FUNNY TO SEE HIM POP

UP IN ONE OF THESE.

>> WE JUST WANT YOU TO BRING

HOLLY HOME.

[ SOBBING ]

>> THE TWO DAYS SINCE HOLLY ANN

DISAPPEARED...

>> THERE. THAT'S HANK GAFFORIO.

>> RIGHT THERE?

>> YEAH.

>> THAT NUMBER AGAIN, 987-7935.

>> TOO MANY COINCIDENCES, YOU

KNOW?

AND LIKE I SAID, BEFORE I DIE,

I WOULD LOVE THIS GUY TO JUST

TALK TO ME, JUST ONCE.

AND ALL HE'S GOT TO DO IS JUST

GIVE SOMEBODY A NOTE AND SAY,

"THIS IS WHERE THEY'RE BURIED."

THAT'S ALL.

>> HE SENT US, I THINK, I GUESS

THE VIEW FROM HIS WINDOW.

THIS IS THE DECISION AND ORDER

FROM THE JUDGE...

>> IN THE CASE OF

JENNIFER SCHWEIGER?

>> NO, NO, NO.

THIS IS IN THE CASE OF

HOLLY ANN.

>> SO HE'S BASICALLY RESPONDING

TO EACH OF THE WITNESSES IN THE

LAST PRETRIAL HEARINGS.

>> TESTIMONY, RIGHT.

IT SAYS, "DETECTIVE LOTITO ASKED

THE DEFENDANT IF HE NOTICED

ANYTHING UNUSUAL ABOUT

HOLLY ANN HUGHES AT THE TIME.

THE DEFENDANT SAID, 'SHE WAS

VERY, VERY DIRTY.

HER LEGS WERE DIRTY.

HER HANDS WERE DIRTY.'

HE GAVE HER MONEY AND SENT HER

TO THE GROCERY STORE TO BUY A

BAR OF SOAP.

THE COURT HERE IS CONTINUOUSLY

QUOTING THE DETECTIVES' OWN

INVENTED STATEMENTS.

THE DEFENDANT NEVER MET OR SAW

HUGHES AT ANY TIME, NOR DID THE

DEFENDANT ADMIT THESE THINGS."

THE ONLY WITNESS TODAY WAS

ELSIE CASTRO.

SHE LIVED ACROSS THE STREET FROM

WHERE HOLLY ANN LIVED.

SHE SAYS ON HER SIDE OF THE

STREET, BUT ONE HOUSE UP,

THERE'S A GREEN VOLKSWAGEN.

SHE DOESN'T SEE ANYBODY IN THE

GREEN VOLKSWAGEN.

SHE GOES INTO THE HOUSE.

SHE GOES TO TAKE A SHOWER AND

DISCOVERS THAT THERE'S NO SOAP.

>> LARRY INTERVIEWED

ELSIE CASTRO.

SHE SAW NOTHING.

BUT SHE CLAIMS SHE BOUGHT A

BAR OF SOAP AT THE STORE AND WAS

FIVE CENTS SHORT.

>> IT'S VERY COINCIDENTAL THAT

SHE WAS A NICKEL SHORT WHEN

HOLLY ANN WAS REPORTEDLY A

NICKEL SHORT, AS WELL, ALL

WITHIN THE TIME SPAN OF ABOUT AN

HOUR.

>> SO DO YOU THINK THE OTHER

WITNESS MISREMEMBERED?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

AND WHAT THAT SAYS, IF I DON'T

KNOW AND THE JURY DOESN'T KNOW,

THAT'S REASONABLE DOUBT.

>> THIS IS ELSIE'S CAR.

>> ELSIE CASTRO.

>> RIGHT.

HERE, THE KIDS WERE ALL BACK AND

FORTH AROUND HERE.

>> ON THAT CORNER.

AND WHERE WAS THE ACTUAL POINT

WHERE THEY BELIEVED SHE WAS

TAKEN?

>> WELL, THIS IS THE OTHER

THING.

WE'RE NOT SURE. LOOK AT THAT.

>> A VOLKSWAGEN.

>> HE CAME BACK TO SEE WHAT WAS

GOING ON.

ALL OF THE CRIMES THAT WE SEEM

TO LINK HIM TO ALL TOOK PLACE IN

JULY, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF

TIAHEASE.

THIS WAS TIAHEASE -- TAI.

SHE LIVED WITH HER MOTHER, AND I

BELIEVE THERE WERE FOUR OTHER

SIBLINGS, AND THEY WERE ALL IN

ONE ROOM IN THE CONCA D'ORO.

IT WAS A WELFARE HOTEL AT THE

PARTICULAR TIME.

IT WAS AN AUGUST DAY, AND THE

OLDER BROTHER LEFT TIAHEASE

TALKING TO A MAN.

THAT MAN WAS DESCRIBED AS

SOMEONE THAT LOOKED LIKE ANDRE.

SHE'S NEVER BEEN SEEN AGAIN.

THE EVIDENCE IS THE BODIES.

I'M SURE BURIED SOMEWHERE, HE'S

GOT THE EVIDENCE.

WE JUST HAVEN'T FOUND IT IN THE

WOODS YET.

>> SNIFF IT OUT.

WHATCHA GOT, BOY?

>> DONNA IS SEARCHING ONE OF

RAND'S FORMER CAMPSITES WITH

LUIS RIVERA, A RETIRED POLICE

OFFICER WHO HELPED SEARCH FOR

JENNIFER THE DAY SHE

DISAPPEARED.

>> FIND THE BODY, BOY.

FIND THE BODY.

SNIFF IT OUT.

SNIFF IT OUT.

ONE BODY THAT I FOUND WITH MY

DOG WAS 22 YEARS IN THE GROUND.

SO THE POSSIBILITIES ARE REALLY

THERE.

IT'S JUST A MATTER OF COMING

BACK OUT, CONCENTRATING ON SMALL

AREAS AT A TIME.

COME ON, BOY.

COME ON, BOY.

SNIFF IT OUT.

FIND THE BODY, BOY.

>> WHERE DO YOU THINK MOST OF

THESE KIDS ARE?

>> IT'S HARD TO SAY.

THEY'RE BURIED...

SOMEWHERE IN STATEN ISLAND.

>> DETECTIVE FRANK SAEZ IS ONE

OF THE FOREMOST EXPERTS ON THE

COLD CASES OF NEW YORK CITY'S

MISSING CHILDREN.

>> I MEAN, HE COULD COME AND

SAY, "LISTEN," SOMEDAY, "I'LL

GIVE YOU THE BODIES," AND TAKE

YOU TO A LOCATION, AND YOU COULD

BE SHOCKED WHERE IT'S AT.

>> IF YOU LOOK AROUND, YOU CAN

ACTUALLY SEE THE PERIMETER OF

THIS AREA.

AND THIS WAS ONE OF HIS

CAMPSITES.

THIS DID NOT HAVE A LEAN-TO OR

A LATRINE OR ANYTHING SET UP THE

WAY THE CAMPSITE AT WILLOWBROOK

DID, BUT KIDS DID SAY THAT THEY

WOULD SEE HIM SITTING IN HERE.

SO, THIS WAS WHERE HE LIVED IN

THE WARMER MONTHS.

>> SEEK IT OUT.

SEEK IT OUT, BOY.

>> THEY SAY THE DEATH OF A CHILD

IS THE WORST POSSIBLE CRIME

ANYBODY CAN EVER IMAGINE.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

BUT THE MISSING OF A CHILD IS

EVEN WORSE, BECAUSE IF YOUR

CHILD DIES AND YOU BURY HIM OR

HER, THEN AT LEAST YOU HAVE A

PLACE THAT YOU CAN GO TO.

WHEN YOUR CHILD DISAPPEARS AND

YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE THAT CHILD

IS, TO A PARENT, A CHILD IS

NEVER DEAD UNTIL AN OFFICER CAN

ACTUALLY BRING THE REMAINS TO

THEM.

>> SOMEBODY'S USING THIS AREA

HERE.

>> SEE, WHEN YOU FIND THINGS

LIKE ARTICLES OF CLOTHING, LIKE

THIS IS A KID'S SHOE, SHAMPOO,

TAPE...

LUIS!

COME ON BACK.

OKAY, THERE'S SHOES, DUCT TAPE,

AND LOOK HOW SOFT THE GROUND IS.

IT'S REAL SOFT.

>> YEAH.

SNIFF IT OUT.

SNIFF IT OUT, BOY.

DIG IT OUT, BOY.

>> IT'S AREAS LIKE THIS THAT WE

WOULD DIG, JUST TO SEE, BECAUSE

THAT LOOKS A LITTLE SUSPICIOUS.

YOU NEVER KNOW.

>> SO, THIS CORRECTIONS OFFICER

KEEPS SAYING ON THE BUS EVERY

MORNING THAT RAND SAYS HE'S

INNOCENT AND HE DIDN'T DO IT.

AND THE CORRECTIONS OFFICER

SAYS, "THEN CONSIDER YOURSELF A

MARTYR FOR THE SAFETY OF

CHILDREN.

AND THAT'S WHAT YOU ARE."

>> HOLLY ANN'S BROTHER,

ED ARMSTRONG, TOOK THE STAND

TODAY.

HE WAS 14 YEARS OLD WHEN HE LAST

SAW HIS SISTER ON THE DAY SHE

DISAPPEARED.

SINCE THEN, HE'S BECOME A

LIEUTENANT IN THE

NEW YORK POLICE DEPARTMENT.

HE'S ALSO BEEN INSTRUMENTAL IN

BRINGING THIS CASE TO TRIAL.

>> IF HE HAS ANY HUMANITY LEFT

IN HIS SOUL, YOU KNOW, MAYBE

HE'LL SEE THAT THERE WAS AN

ERROR IN HIS WAY, AND, YOU

KNOW, I COULD FORGIVE HIM IF HE

RETURNED THE REMAINS OF MY

SISTER.

AND THAT'S ALL WE EVER WANTED.

YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T CARE IF WE

EVER GOT A DAY EXTRA ADDED TO

HIS SENTENCE.

ALL I EVER WANTED WERE THE

REMAINS OF MY SISTER.

IF HE'S GOT ANYTHING LEFT, HE'LL

DO THAT FOR US.

>> HERE'S HOLLY ANN.

>> YOU WERE INVOLVED IN ALL OF

THESE SEARCHES?

>> OH, YEAH, YEAH.

>> HOW LONG DO YOU THINK YOU

SEARCHED FOR HER FOR?

>> [ SIGHS ] FOR YEARS.

[ CHUCKLES ]

"WILL THE UNLUCKY 7 EVER TURN

UP?"

RUSHAN, HIS NAME WAS --

R-U-S-H-A-N.

AND HE CHANGED IT TO RAND.

THIS IS ONE WHERE JENNIFER WAS

MISSING.

>> DO YOU THINK THERE'S ANY

CREDENCE IN THE IDEA THAT MAYBE

JENNIFER WAS REBURIED AT THE

CAMPSITE?

>> THEY FOUND HER WITH THE HEAD

DOWN, I THINK IT WAS, AND THE

BLOOD WAS IN THE FEET, LIKE SHE

WAS REPOSITIONED.

>> SO WHO DO YOU THINK MAYBE...

>> THAT'S WHY WE THOUGHT THERE

MIGHT HAVE BEEN OTHER PEOPLE

INVOLVED.

>> THE RUMORS SURROUNDING THE

MISSING CHILDREN WERE

OVERWHELMING.

SOME BELIEVED THAT RAND DIDN'T

ACT ALONE, THAT HE HAD HELP FROM

ONE OF THE HOMELESS OR A FORMER

PATIENT FROM WILLOWBROOK.

OTHERS THOUGHT HE WAS FRAMED AND

THAT THE REAL KILLER WAS STILL

OUT THERE.

THE ONLY PERSON WHO KNEW THE

TRUTH WAS RAND HIMSELF.

FOR WEEKS WE HAD BEEN EXCHANGING

LETTERS IN HOPES OF GETTING AN

INTERVIEW.

BUT RAND REFUSED TO GIVE US ANY

INFORMATION.

HE FELT ALL THE UNWANTED

ATTENTION WOULD EXPOSE THE

NATURE OF HIS SUSPECTED CRIMES

TO HIS FELLOW INMATES AND PUT

HIS LIFE IN JEOPARDY.

"A VIDEO INTERVIEW WHILE

INCARCERATED IS LIKELY TO

INSTIGATE VIOLENT AND JEALOUS

ACTIONS, DETRIMENT TO MY LIFE

AND/OR PROPERTY AS CAUSED BY THE

PRESS."

>> SINCE RAND WOULDN'T SPEAK

WITH US, WE HAD TO FOLLOW ANY

LEAD...

[ KNOCK ON DOOR ]

...FIND ANYONE WHO MIGHT HAVE

KNOWN HIM IN THE PAST.

HEY, I'M LOOKING FOR

RICHARD FREAR.

DOES HE LIVE HERE?

HE DOESN'T LIVE HERE?

I THOUGHT HE LIVE-- HE DOESN'T

LIVE HERE ANYMORE?

HE USED TO.

>> WHO ARE THEY?

>> ALL PEOPLE WHO KNEW RAND.

>> HOW DID THEY KNOW RAND?

>> THROUGH DONNA'S NOTES, THEY

SAID, "OH, YOU KNOW, FRIEND OF

RAND.

KNEW RAND."

YOU DON'T RECOGNIZE ANY OF

THESE NAMES?

AND WILLY HAS PASSED AWAY THERE.

>> OH, OKAY.

>> OKAY.

DOES A GUY THOMAS LIVE HERE?

>> I WAS AROUND 6, 7 YEARS OLD,

AND WE WAS ALL OUTSIDE PLAYING

AT THE YMCA.

THE GUY WAS LIKE, "Y'ALL WANT TO

GO ON A TRIP?"

THIS IS THE PLACE RIGHT HERE,

YMCA.

HE HAD A BUS RIGHT HERE.

IT WAS PARKED RIGHT HERE AT

THE TIME.

I'LL NEVER FORGET IT.

WE ALL HOPPED ON THE BUS.

WE DIDN'T KNOW NO BETTER.

WE WERE LITTLE KIDS, YOU KNOW?

>> YEAH.

>> HE SAID HE WAS JUST GONNA

TAKE US TO THE PARK.

WE WOUND UP IN NEWARK AIRPORT.

SO THEN AFTER THAT, HE TOOK US

SOMEWHERE IN SOME PARK, WHICH

IT WAS PITCH-BLACK.

I THINK IT WAS WILLOWBROOK PARK

AT THE TIME.

PITCH-BLACK.

WE WERE ALL RUNNING AROUND,

PLAYING HIDE AND SEEK AND

EVERYTHING.

COME TO FIND OUT WE WERE BEING

KIDNAPPED, AND WE DIDN'T EVEN

HAVE A CLUE WHAT WAS GOING ON.

I THINK HE ATTEMPTED SOMETHING

THAT HE COULDN'T ACCOMPLISH, AND

I THINK IT, LIKE, DAWNED ON HIM,

LIKE, "I CAN'T DO IT LIKE THIS.

LET ME, LIKE, TAKE MY STEPS."

AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT HE DID.

HE WAS LIKE, YOU KNOW, "LET ME

WORK ON MY PREY."

AND THAT'S WHAT HE DID.

>> WHILE SOME RESIDENTS WERE

CONVINCED OF RAND'S GUILT,

OTHERS WEREN'T SO SURE.

EXCUSE ME.

DO YOU GUYS KNOW A THOMAS MICOL?

>> THAT'S ME.

>> OH, HEY.

>> I WORKED WITH ANDRE RAND.

>> CAN WE TALK TO YOU FOR A

COUPLE MINUTES?

>> SURE.

THEY SAY THAT HE WAS TOTALLY

FRAMED FOR THAT, THAT THEY

COMBED THAT AREA...

LIKE WITH A FINE-TOOTH COMB.

AFTER THEY ARRESTED ANDRE RAND,

THEY COMBED IT AGAIN, AND NOW

HER BODY IS THERE, VERY EASILY

TO BE FOUND.

SO YOU KNOW WHAT?

I WOULD THINK THAT MAYBE HE

DIDN'T DO IT EITHER.

SOMEBODY WHO DID DO IT MOVED

THE BODY THERE TO FRAME HIM.

>> I THOUGHT THEY WERE JUST

TRYING TO PIN IT ON SOMEBODY,

AND THEY WERE GONNA BLAME HIM,

BECAUSE HE WAS THIS LONER, AND,

YOU KNOW, HE KIND OF LOOKED, YOU

KNOW, A LITTLE SCARY.

>> SEARCHING THROUGH OLD FILES,

WE CAME ACROSS THE NAME OF

BOB GRAHAM.

THE NOTES HAD INDICATED THAT

HE KNEW RAND AND AT ONE TIME HAD

BEEN AN EARLY SUSPECT IN

JENNIFER'S DISAPPEARANCE.

>> HE BRIEFLY WORKED AT A

HAMBURGER JOINT ON FOREST AVENUE

CALLED WESTLEY'S, AND WHEN WE

USED TO STREET-RACE AND

DRAG-RACE BACK IN THE LATE '60s,

EARLY '70s, WE USED TO HIDE

THERE.

HE HAD THE PAPER HAT ON, AND HE

WAS SWEEPING UP THE PARKING LOT,

OR HE WAS BEHIND THE COUNTER,

YOU KNOW, PUTTING CHEESE ON THE

BURGERS.

AND HE HAD THIS VOLKSWAGEN THAT

I NOTICED WAS IN THE WEEDS

BEHIND WILLOWBROOK.

HE WAS LIVING IN THE CAR;

THERE WAS A PATHWAY DOWN THERE.

AND I HEARD THINGS ABOUT THE

TUNNEL NETWORK UNDER WILLOWBROOK

STATE SCHOOL.

IT WAS SET UP LIKE A HUB WITH

SPOKES.

YOU COULD GET, SAY, FROM THE

CAFETERIA OUT TO EVERY WARD.

HE COULD SURVIVE DOWN THERE

BECAUSE HE HAD WORKED THERE AT

ONE TIME.

>> SO, WERE THERE OTHER PEOPLE

LIVING IN THE WOODS?

>> THERE'S A LOT OF THEM OUT

HERE, NOT JUST HIM.

THERE ARE A LOT OF THEM OUT

HERE.

>> THERE'S SOMETHING UP THERE.

LOOK, MAYBE THIS IS WHAT

HE'S TALKING ABOUT.

THERE'S A TUNNEL.

GOES ALL THE WAY DOWN HERE.

>> THERE'S A CITY UNDER A CITY.

BETWEEN THE RATS RUNNING AROUND

AND THE SEWER WATER THAT HAD

SEEPED IN AND...

THE DIRTY CLOTHES AND --

>> RACKS OF CLOTHES, COTS.

>> IT'S AN OLD WHEELCHAIR.

>> WOW. THAT'S PRETTY CRAZY.

>> OBVIOUSLY, MEN, WOMEN, AND

CHILDREN WERE LIVING DOWN THERE,

INCLUDING ANDRE RAND.

>> YEAH, HE HAD HIS OWN LITTLE

CIRCLE OF FRIENDS THERE.

>> LOOK. ALL THESE HAVE THESE

HOLES IN IT, AND THEY'RE ALL

REALLY CLEAN FOR PEOPLE TO LIVE

IN.

LOOK AT THAT FLOOR.

THAT FLOOR HAS BEEN TOTALLY

WIPED CLEAN.

>> ANDRE RAND HAD THIS SORT OF

REALLY LOW-CLASS, WHITE-TRASH

VERSION OF JIM JONES GOING.

SOMEHOW, HE MANAGED TO GET

PEOPLE TO FOLLOW HIM.

>> WHO WERE THEY, THOUGH?

>> WELL, HE HAD SOME OTHER

HOMELESS.

>> SOMEBODY'S BEEN STAYING HERE.

CREAM OF MUSHROOM SOUP, OLD

DISHES.

>> FLOWERS.

>> I REMEMBER ONE DAY, WE FOUND

A MATTRESS WITH MEN'S RAZORS AND

A TOOTHBRUSH AND MEN'S CLOTHING

WITH ONE PAIR OF LITTLE GIRL'S

PANTIES.

>> I THINK THAT HE WAS PASSING

THE CHILDREN AROUND TO HIS

FRIENDS, WHO WERE JUST AS SICK

AS HIM.

>> SO, DO YOU THINK RAND WAS THE

ONLY ONE RESPONSIBLE?

>> IN JENNIFER'S KILLING?

>> NO, I DON'T THINK HE COULD

HAVE DONE IT ALL BY HIMSELF.

>> THEY TOLD US A LOT OF STRANGE

STORIES.

THEY TOLD US STRANGE THINGS

ABOUT ANDRE WE COULD NEVER PROVE

OR DISPROVE.

YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT HAVING

SEX WITH DEAD PEOPLE.

THERE'S A STORY, WHETHER YOU

HEARD THAT ONE OR NOT.

>> THE THING THAT ANDRE USED TO

DO IS USED TO DIG UP DEAD BODIES

IN THE CEMETERY AND HAD SEX WITH

THESE BODIES.

>> DID YOU FIND IT STRANGE THAT

THERE WAS KIND OF THIS

UNDERBELLY TO STATEN ISLAND?

>> I WOULD'VE NEVER GUESSED THE

AMOUNT OF WEIRDOS LIVING ON

STATEN ISLAND THAT I RAN INTO.

>> YOU KNOW, WHY AREN'T PEOPLE

AWARE OF WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?

>> TO THOSE WHO EVEN REMOTELY

KNEW ANDRE RAND, HE WAS A

COMPLETE MYSTERY.

THE MORE WE TRIED TO LEARN ABOUT

HIM, THE MORE BIZARRE THE

STORIES BECAME.

IT WAS BECOMING HARDER FOR US

TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN

THE FACTS...

AND THE FOLKLORE.

>> IN AN ALMOST REPLAY OF RAND'S

FIRST TRIAL, THE PROSECUTION IS

ONCE AGAIN RELYING ON EYEWITNESS

TESTIMONY TO PROVE ITS CASE.

SOME OF THOSE WHO TESTIFIED WERE

FORMER ALCOHOLICS OR DRUG

ADDICTS WHO NOW SAY THEY CAN

RECALL THE DETAILS OF THAT NIGHT

OVER 20 YEARS AGO.

>> BURNS CHANGED HIS STORY BACK

AND FORTH, BUT BASICALLY HE'S

DRINKING.

HE SEES HOLLY ANN.

HE SEES RAND TALKING TO HOLLY.

HE WAS THE FIRST WITNESS THAT

PUT RAND NEXT TO HOLLY ANN.

>> SO IN THAT 17 YEARS, HE NEVER

CAME FORWARD?

>> NEVER CAME FORWARD.

THAT WAS THE KEY PART OF OUR

CROSS.

THAT WAS KEY.

NEVER CAME FORWARD.

>> OTHER WITNESSES COULD PROVIDE

ONLY THE VAGUEST OF DETAILS IN

THEIR TESTIMONY.

>> WHAT WAS HE LIKE?

>> OH, YOU DON'T WANT TO MEET

HIM.

HE WAS A CREEP.

>> WHY?

>> 'CAUSE HE LOOKED LIKE HE WAS

A KILLER.

I JUST SAID WHAT I HAD TO SAY,

AND THAT'S IT.

>> DID YOU SEE ANYTHING THE

NIGHT THAT HOLLY ANN

DISAPPEARED?

>> YEAH, I HEARD A SCREAM, AND I

HEARD HER SAY, "LET ME GO."

>> WE HAD PEOPLE THAT THAT HELD

BACK INFORMATION THAT WE'RE

FINDING OUT TODAY THAT WERE DRUG

ADDICTS, DOPE DEALERS.

>> WHAT DID YOU NEED THAT YOU

DIDN'T HAVE?

>> WE NEEDED TO PUT HER IN THE

CAR.

>> TO PUT HER IN THE CAR?

>> RIGHT.

>> AND YOU HAD NO ACTUAL

WITNESSES TO PUT HER IN THE CAR?

>> NOT AT THAT TIME.

>> HE PULLED UP IN HIS LITTLE,

GREEN CAR, ASKED US IF WE WANTED

CANDY.

SHE WENT TO GO GET IT.

SHE PUT HER ARM IN THE CAR AS HE

OPENED UP THE DOOR, AND THAT'S

THE LAST I'VE EVER SEEN OF HER.

>> IN A SURPRISING TURN OF

EVENTS, TANYA GOODSON WAS CALLED

TO THE STAND.

A PLAYMATE OF HOLLY ANN'S WHO

WAS 6 AT THE TIME, TANYA

TESTIFIED THAT SHE SAW RAND,

WEARING A MASK AND HOLDING

CANDY, PULL HOLLY ANN INTO HIS

CAR.

SO, WHEN YOU SAID WHEN HE TOOK

HOLLY ANN HE WAS WEARING A MASK.

TELL ME ABOUT THAT.

>> THE MASK I DON'T REMEMBER.

ALL I KNOW IS HIS FACE WAS

COVERED.

I COULDN'T SEE HIS FACE.

>> SO IT MIGHT NOT HAVE BEEN A

MASK, JUST LIKE MAYBE HIS HAT

PULLED DOWN OR --

>> NO, HIS WHOLE FACE WAS

COVERED.

>> BUT WHEN HE SAID, "DO YOU

WANT CANDY?" DID HE LOOK THAT

BIZARRE, WITH THE MASK AND

STUFF?

>> HE LOOKED SCARY.

>> SO, YOU KNEW JENNIFER, AND

YOU KNEW HOLLY ANN?

>> YEAH. I KNEW A BUNCH OF THEM

THAT HE HAD KIDNAPPED.

>> DID YOU KNOW HANK GAFFORIO?

>> THAT ONE I DIDN'T KNOW.

I KNEW LATISHA.

>> TIAHEASE?

>> TIAHEASE JACKSON?

>> YEAH.

>> ALL THESE PEOPLE YOU KNEW

GROWING UP ON STATEN ISLAND, AND

THEY ALL WERE DISAPPEARING.

WHAT DID YOU THINK?

>> I DIDN'T THINK ANYTHING

BECAUSE I WAS TOO YOUNG.

AND NOW THAT I AM OLDER, I CAME

HERE TO DO WHAT I GOT TO DO, AND

I FEEL A WHOLE LOT BETTER NOW.

>> MR. RAND, WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO

SAY TO THE STATEN ISLAND

COMMUNITY?

[ CAMERA SHUTTERS CLICKING ]

>> AND THAT'S 675 TYSENS LANE.

>> THIS IS IT, YEAH.

>> 30 YEARS AGO.

ALICE LIVED HERE WITH...

>> HER MOTHER, WHO HAD MULTIPLE

SCLEROSIS, WAS ABOUT 26 YEARS

OLD AT THE TIME.

AND, OF COURSE, THERE'S

ANDRE RAND, WOULD STAND RIGHT

THERE ALL THE TIME, RIGHT WHERE

THAT DOOR IS.

AND HE WAS A MAINTENANCE MAN

HERE.

>> AND WHERE WAS THE FATHER AT

THE TIME?

>> THEY WERE SEPARATED.

THEY WERE SEPARATED FOR ABOUT

THREE YEARS, AND THAT'S WHY THE

DETECTIVES THOUGHT THAT THE

FATHER MIGHT HAVE TAKEN THE

CHILD.

AND SO THEY DID NOT FOCUS ON

THE CHILD BEING KIDNAPPED BY

SOME DEVIATE.

WE JUST WANT CLOSURE, ALL OF US.

THAT'S ALL.

>> OF COURSE.

>> IT'S BEEN SO MANY YEARS.

IT'S LIKE EVERYBODY FORGOT.

>> HE SENT A PICTURE OF HIS

RIKERS ISLAND I.D.

"DEAR BARBARA, YOU KNOW THAT I

CANNOT ANSWER MANY OF YOUR

QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME.

THE DOCUMENTARY FILM YOU PUT SO

MUCH FAITH INTO WILL NEVER STAND

UP TO THE EXCULPATORY EVIDENCE

IN MY BOOK.

YOU MIGHT MEAN WELL, BUT LATER,

OTHER MOVIEMAKERS WILL PICK UP

WHERE YOU LEFT OFF.

AS LONG AS I'M IN PRISON, I WILL

GIVE THE MOVIEMAKERS REASON TO

PORTRAY ME AS AN EVIL PERSON.

YOU SEE, EVILNESS SELLS.

THAT'S THE NAME OF THEIR GAME."

>> RAND WAS RIGHT.

THE EVIL, NOT HARD FACTS, WAS

PUSHING THIS TRIAL.

BUT THEN THE COINCIDENCES

COULDN'T BE IGNORED.

WE KNEW WE HAD TO GET AN

INTERVIEW, BUT NOW, IN EXCHANGE,

RAND WAS PUSHING FOR US TO

PROCLAIM HIS INNOCENCE.

"BARBARA, TYPE ME AN EXACT LIST

OF THE QUESTIONS OR DISCUSSIONS

YOU'RE GOING TO ASK ME DURING

YOUR DOCUMENTARY."

>> THIS IS, I THINK, THE ROUTE

THAT HE TOOK HOLLY ANN ON.

ALL THE CLUES LED US RIGHT ALONG

HERE, RIGHT UP INTO

BARON HIRSCH.

>> SO HE HAD A CAMPSITE IN HERE?

>> WE THINK IT WAS HIS.

SHE COULD BE IN ONE OF THESE

GRAVES OVER HERE.

IF HE HAD A BAR OR SOMETHING,

HE COULD'VE MOVED A LID OVER,

PUT THE BODY IN THERE WITH AN

OLDER BODY, AND COVERED IT

BACK UP AGAIN, AND NOBODY'D EVER

FIND HER.

'CAUSE A LOT OF THESE ARE LOOSE.

>> RIGHT.

>> THERE'S A BODY DOWN BELOW

THERE.

I DON'T KNOW HOW DEEP THEY BURY

THEM.

>> THESE ARE ALL CHILDREN.

>> AT FIRST, WE WERE THINKING

MAYBE HE SOLD THEM TO USE FOR

CULT ACTIVITIES OR WHATEVER, YOU

KNOW?

>> REALLY?

YOU THINK IT'S DEFINITELY

LEGITIMATE?

>> I WOULDN'T DOUBT IT.

>> I MEAN, WHAT MADE YOU BELIEVE

THAT THAT WAS GOING ON?

>> WELL, WE HAD THE SON OF SAM

OUT THERE, YOU KNOW?

THAT GOES INTO CULTS IN A BIG

WAY.

>> I GUESS, ONLY BECAUSE THAT'S

SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE THOUGHT OF

BACK THEN, 20 YEARS AGO.

MAYBE NOT TODAY.

>> THEY'RE STILL THINKING ABOUT

IT.

>> ANDRE WAS INTO THE DEVIL'S

CULT, AND BEING A NATIVE

STATEN ISLANDER, I REALLY

COULDN'T BELIEVE HOW MUCH --

HOW BIG IT IS ON STATEN ISLAND.

WE WENT TO ONE ESTABLISHMENT

WHERE THE BASEMENT WAS SET UP

LIKE -- I GUESS WHAT THEY'D

CALL THE CHURCH, AND THEY USED

TO HOLD THEIR CEREMONIES ON

ACTUALLY THE OLD

WILLOWBROOK STATE SCHOOL

GROUNDS.

>> SO YOU DON'T THINK IT WAS

KIDS?

>> OH, DEFINITELY NOT.

DEFINITELY NOT.

I THINK IT WAS ADULTS THAT WOULD

HOLD THESE CEREMONIES.

AND I THINK ANDRE RAND AND HIS

CREW WERE PART OF IT.

WHETHER INITIATED OR NOT, THEY

WERE PART OF IT.

>> IT'S HARD FOR US TO BELIEVE,

BUT IF YOU HAD TO CONVINCE

SOMEBODY THAT IT WAS REAL, WHAT

WOULD YOU SAY?

>> I WOULD SAY IS GET A COUPLE

OF HIS FRIENDS, SIT DOWN, AND

TALK TO THEM.

AND BY THEM JUST TALKING, YOU'LL

REALIZE HOW BAD IT WAS.

>> ONE TIME, I WAS INVITED TO

THE PRECINCT TO TALK TO THEM AS

THEY RECORDED ME, AND THEY START

TELLING ME ABOUT DEVIL

WORSHIPPING ON STATEN ISLAND,

THAT MAYBE HE WAS A PART OF THIS

CULT.

AND I DIDN'T BELIEVE IT.

>> WHAT DID THEY THINK WAS GOING

ON?

>> THAT MAYBE SOME OF THESE

DEVIL WORSHIPPERS HAD SOMETHING

TO DO WITH THE KIDS VANISHING.

YOU CAN PAINT PARALLELS TO

ANYTHING AND SAY, "OH, YEAH."

YOU KNOW, I CAN TAKE A PICTURE

OF ANYBODY.

OKAY?

AND I CAN SAY, "THIS MAN IS A

MASS MURDERER."

AND THEY SAY, "YEAH, I CAN TELL!

I CAN TELL."

I COULD SAY, "THIS MAN RESCUED

SIX PEOPLE FROM A BURNING

BUILDING."

"I CAN TELL HE'S A GOOD MAN."

>> IN ADDITION TO THE POLICE

INVESTIGATION, OTHER EVIDENCE OF

CULT ACTIVITY HAD BEEN MAILED

TO JENNIFER'S FAMILY.

A MYSTERIOUS LETTER CLAIMED THAT

RAND HAD BEEN SUPPLYING CHILDREN

TO THE CHURCH OF THE PROCESS,

THE SAME CULT THAT

DAVID BERKOWITZ ALLEGED HELPED

HIM COMMIT THE SON OF SAM

MURDERS.

THIS ANONYMOUS LETTER WAS TRACED

BACK TO VERONICA LUEKEN, A LOCAL

WOMAN WITH HER OWN RELIGIOUS

FOLLOWING.

SO BASICALLY THIS GROUP RIGHT

DOWN OVER HERE, YOU KNOW, THEY

WROTE THESE LETTERS FROM

10/4/87, WHICH IS A COUPLE

MONTHS AFTER JENNIFER

DISAPPEARED.

"I THOUGHT I'D WRITE YOU THIS

NOTE TO TRY AND ENLIGHTEN YOU,

AT THE SAME TIME REASSURE YOU

ABOUT THE CRIMES THAT ARE BEING

COMMITTED ON THE ISLAND.

WELL, I DID A LITTLE CHECKING

ON THE RECENT DISAPPEARANCES AND

MURDERS OF THESE KIDS, AND IT

LOOKS LIKE SOME OF THEM WERE

VICTIMS OF WHAT IS CALLED A

SATANIC BLACK MASS.

ANDRE RAND DID NOT KILL

JENNIFER.

ALL HE DID WAS BRING HER TO

THE COVEN.

TOO BAD THAT THEY COVERED IT

UP, BUT WHO WANTS TO ADMIT THAT

STATEN ISLAND IS LITERALLY GOING

TO HELL?

IT IS A PICNIC GROUND FOR

THEM.

THERE ARE BODIES BURIED THAT

WILL NEVER BE FOUND."

>> HAIL MARY, FULL OF GRACE, THE

LORD IS WITH THEE.

BLESSED ARE THOU AMONGST WOMEN,

AND BLESSED IS THE FRUIT OF THY

WOMB, JESUS."

>> SO, CAN WE SPEAK TO YOU FOR

ONE MINUTE?

CAN YOU GIVE ME, LIKE, A

SUMMATION OF WHAT SHE SAID BACK

THEN?

DO YOU BELIEVE IT ACTUALLY GOES

ON?

SO, I THINK IT WOULD BE GREAT IF

YOU COULD SPEAK FOR YOUR

ORGANIZATION.

>> OKAY.

>> 'CAUSE YOU'RE WORRIED ABOUT

THEM?

>> DO YOU THINK THEY'RE ALL

AROUND US?

>> ...THE LORD IS WITH THEE.

>> THIS IS THE TRANSCRIPTION

FROM AN INTERVIEW THAT

DETECTIVES IN 1988 DID WITH

ANDRE RAND WHILE HE WAS UP IN

SING SING.

FOR THE FIRST...

HALF AN HOUR, THEY DISCUSS DEVIL

WORSHIPPING.

"SO YOU WERE CAMPING OUT WHEN HE

TOLD YOU THAT THERE MIGHT BE

SATANIC GOINGS-ON IN THE

WILLOWBROOK AREA?

NOW IT'S 1987, AND YOU HEAR

ABOUT THIS CULT OPERATING AROUND

THE SAME NEIGHBORHOOD, HUMAN

SACRIFICES.

DIDN'T YOU SAY TO YOURSELF,

'MAYBE THEY'RE THE ONES THAT

SNATCHED THAT LITTLE GIRL?'

DID THAT OCCUR TO YOU?"

SO, WHEN YOU WENT UP TO

SING SING IN '98, YOU DISCUSSED

WITH HIM NUMEROUS THINGS ABOUT

DEVIL WORSHIPPING?

>> [ CHUCKLES ]

WELL...

IT WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS LOOKED

INTO.

BUT, LIKE I SAID, WE DIDN'T FIND

THAT ANDRE WAS INTO THAT KIND OF

CROWD.

>> THERE WAS SOMETHING CALLED

THE CHURCH OF THE PROCESS YEARS

AGO THAT WAS VERY STRONGLY

LINKED TO SATANIC CULTS, AND THE

FOUNDER OF THAT CHURCH HAPPENS

TO LIVE ON STATEN ISLAND.

>> [ CHUCKLES ]

AND HAS LIVED THERE FOR A LONG

TIME.

>> AND HE'S LIVED THERE FOR A

LONG TIME.

>> YEAH. I MEAN, IS HE JUST NOT

ACTIVE?

WHAT'S THAT ALL ABOUT?

>> NO, HE'S NOT.

SUPPOSEDLY HE'S NOT ACTIVE

ANYMORE.

>> DOES HE DENY IT, OR IS HE --

>> I'VE NEVER INTERVIEWED HIM.

IS THERE SATANIC CULTS, PEOPLE

THAT PRACTICE?

OF COURSE THERE IS.

BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S KEPT

VERY QUIET.

IT'S SOMETHING THAT NOT MANY

DEPARTMENTS INVESTIGATE.

SATANIC WORSHIP IS SATANIC

WORSHIPPERS.

IT'S LIKE BEING A CATHOLIC.

YOU BELIEVE IN GOD, AND YOU

BELIEVE IN JESUS.

THEY BELIEVE IN SATAN.

>> SO, ARE YOU IN HOUSES, OR ARE

YOU IN THE WOODS?

>> YOU COULD BE IN HOUSES.

YOU COULD BE IN THE WOODS.

>> ARE YOU IN ABANDONED MENTAL

INSTITUTIONS?

>> YOU COULD USE THEM.

>> AND DO THEY USE KIDS?

>> I'D RATHER NOT ANSWER THAT.

>> BASICALLY, THIS IS THE AREA

KNOWN AS THE FARM COLONY, AND

THIS IS WHERE THEY SAID A LOT OF

DEVIL WORSHIPPING AND STUFF WAS

GOING ON.

>> I'M NOT SAYING THAT THERE'S

ANYTHING HERE.

MAYBE IT'S PEOPLE'S

IMAGINATIONS.

>> I MEAN, IT'S SCARY BECAUSE

YOU DON'T KNOW WHO CAN BE HERE.

BUT THERE'S NO DEVIL

WORSHIPPERS.

>> THERE ARE SOME CROSSES ON THE

BUILDING ACROSS THE WAY.

WE SHOULD GO.

LET'S JUST CHECK IT OUT.

>> BUILDING "A."

BARB, YOU WANT TO GO INSIDE?

LET'S GO INSIDE.

>> NO, I'M NOT GOING INSIDE.

>> SO, WE'RE NOT GONNA SEE

ANYTHING IF WE DON'T GO INSIDE.

>> I'M NOT. WAIT.

I'M NOT GOING INSIDE.

WE ALREADY WENT INSIDE DURING

THE DAY.

I'M NOT GOING INSIDE.

>> WHAT ARE YOU, SCARED?

>> WE DON'T EVEN KNOW --

I'M NOT GOING INSIDE.

>> I'M GOING INSIDE.

>> WHAT THE FUCK AM I GONNA DO?

[ THUD ]

OH, MY GOD!

>> SORRY. I DROPPED THE LIGHT.

I DROPPED THE LIGHT.

I'M SORRY.

IT WAS AN ACCIDENT.

>> YOU KNOW WHAT?

I DON'T WANT TO STAY.

Shh, shh, shh!

>> WHAT?

YOU HEAR SOMETHING?

>> YEAH.

I saw something over there.

>> PEOPLE ARE COMING.

OH, MY GOD!

[ LAUGHTER ]

>> SO, WHY ARE YOU HERE TONIGHT?

>> YOU HEAR STORIES.

WE JUST WANTED TO SEE WHAT IT'S

ABOUT, I GUESS.

>> WHAT DO YOU GUYS EXPECT TO

FIND OUT HERE?

>> PEOPLE WHO DIED HERE --

SUPPOSED TO BE THE GHOSTS.

>> SEARCHING THROUGH THE FARM

COLONY, ALL WE FOUND WERE KIDS

SCARING EACH OTHER OUT IN THE

WOODS, JUST LIKE WE HAD DONE

20 YEARS AGO.

>> DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE

DEVIL WORSHIPPERS IN THE WOODS

HERE?

>> OH, YEAH. I DO.

>> SOMEBODY SAID THEY WERE DOING

FREAKY EXPERIMENTS AND CRAP LIKE

THAT.

>> WHAT MAKES US ALL COME OUT

HERE?

WHAT MAKES US BELIEVE THESE

STORIES?

COULD THERE BE SOME TRUTH TO

IT ALL?

YOU GUYS EVER HEAR OF ANY

MISSING KIDS FROM STATEN ISLAND?

>> WHY?

Y'ALL BE HEARING MISSING KIDS?

>> THEY FOUND ONE GIRL,

JENNIFER SCHWEIGER, BURIED ON

THE GROUNDS OF THE

WILLOWBROOK MENTAL INSTITUTION.

>> [ GASPS ]

>> I REMEMBER MY MOM SAYING

SOMETHING ABOUT THAT.

WASN'T SHE SLOW?

>> MAYBE THE REALITY THAT A

PERSON CAN KILL A CHILD IS TOO

MUCH FOR SOME OF US TO BEAR, AND

SO INSTEAD WE CREATE OUR OWN

MONSTERS.

>> HE'S NOT GONNA TESTIFY, I'M

VERY DISAPPOINTED TO SAY.

IT SEEMED LIKE HE WAS WANTING

TO DIVULGE INFORMATION, OF

COURSE NOT NECESSARILY CONFESS

TO ANYTHING, BUT CERTAINLY HE

WAS VERY ANTSY, AND THAT SEEMED

LIKE A GOOD SIGN TO PEOPLE WHO

MIGHT LIKE TO TRY TO GET

INFORMATION OUT OF HIM.

>> ARE YOU UPSET HE DIDN'T TAKE

THE STAND?

>> IT WOULD'VE BEEN INTERESTING,

BECAUSE WE'VE NEVER EVEN HEARD

HIM SPEAK.

SO IT'S REALLY HARD TO HAVE

FEELINGS ABOUT A PERSON YOU

REALLY DON'T KNOW.

YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT THEY

SOUND LIKE.

>> HOW COME YOU DIDN'T PUT ANDRE

ON THE STAND?

>> ANDRE DIDN'T HAVE TOO MUCH TO

ADD, AND HE HAS A CRIMINAL

RECORD.

AND A CRIMINAL RECORD WOULD

DISTRACT FROM THIS CASE.

>> THE JURY WILL BE HANDED THE

CASE MONDAY, AND IF CONVICTED,

RAND COULD FACE AN ADDITIONAL 25

YEARS TO LIFE ON TOP OF THE

SENTENCE HE'S ALREADY SERVING.

ON STATEN ISLAND,

AMANDA FARINACCI, NY1.

GOOD?

>> RAND HAD BEEN UPSET ABOUT NOT

TAKING THE STAND AND WANTED THE

CHANCE TO DEFEND HIMSELF.

AFTER MONTHS OF LETTER-WRITING,

HE FINALLY DECIDED TO GIVE US AN

INTERVIEW.

IT WAS TIME TO CONFRONT RAND

FACE-TO-FACE TO GET SOME ANSWERS

ONCE AND FOR ALL.

>> HE DID THE SAME THING TO ME.

'CAUSE AFTER THAT INITIAL

INTERVIEW THAT WE HAD WITH HIM,

WE HAD WRITTEN TO HIM.

WE WENT BACK UP, AND HE SAID,

"SURE, NO PROBLEM.

COME BACK UP.

WE'LL TALK AGAIN.

BUT YOU'LL COME TO MY HOUSE.

YOU CAN'T MOVE ME.

I WON'T TALK TO YOU UNLESS YOU

SPEAK TO ME IN MY HOME."

AND WE WENT UP THERE, AND

HE TOLD THE CORRECTION PEOPLE,

"I CHANGED MY MIND.

I DON'T WANT TO TALK TO HIM."

>> HE WOULDN'T TALK TO US, SO...

WE'RE GONNA GO BACK HOME.

>> IT'S A GAME FOR HIM.

TO ME, HE'S A VERY SMART MAN.

HE KNEW HOW TO COMMIT THE CRIME

AND NOT GET CAUGHT.

AND LIKE HE SAID TO ME, "WHY

IS IT THAT YOU GUYS DON'T FIND

THE REAL KILLER?"

>> "IT IS YOUR SINS THAT MAKE

HIM HIDE HIS FACE SO THAT HE

WILL NOT HEAR YOU, FOR YOUR

HANDS ARE STAINED WITH BLOOD,

YOUR FINGERS WITH GUILT, YOUR

LIPS SPEAK FALSEHOODS, AND YOUR

TONGUE UTTERS DECEIT."

JOSH AND I HAD DECIDED TO HOLD

OFF ON ANSWERING RAND AFTER HIS

MOST RECENT LETTERS.

THEY WERE BECOMING MORE AND

MORE BIZARRE.

HIS HANDWRITING HAD CHANGED,

AND HE WAS NOW QUOTING

SCRIPTURE.

"NO ONE BRINGS SUIT JUSTLY.

NO ONE PLEADS TRUTHFULLY.

THEY TRUST IN EMPTINESS AND

TELL LIES.

THEY CONCEIVE MISCHIEF AND

BRING FORTH MALICE.

THEY HATCH ADDERS' EGGS AND

WEAVE SPIDERS' WEBS.

WHOEVER EATS THEIR EGGS WILL

DIE.

IF ONE OF THEM IS PRESSED, IT

WILL HATCH AS A VIPER."

>> "MY STAND ON DEVIATE SEX

BELIEFS.

CHILDREN ARE EMOTIONALLY WASTED,

AND THE LAND IS LITTERED WITH

BROKEN LIVES."

WHY'S HE KEEP FOCUSING ON WOMEN?

MAYBE HE SAW THINGS AS A CHILD?

I MEAN, NOBODY REALLY KNOWS HIS

EARLY CHILDHOOD.

>> IN SOME OF THE LETTERS TO

YOU -- WE HAVE THEM -- IT TALKS

ABOUT HER CASE.

FATHER DIED IN 1958.

>> WHEN HE WAS 14.

>> WHEN HE WAS 14.

>> HIS MOTHER WAS IN

PILGRIM STATE, FROM WHAT I WAS

TOLD.

PILGRIM STATE IS BUILT EXACTLY

TO THE SPECS OF WILLOWBROOK.

WILLOWBROOK AND PILGRIM STATE...

>> SAME TYPE OF FACILITY.

>> ...SAME TYPE OF FACILITY,

SAME TYPE OF BUILDING, SAME

TUNNEL SYSTEM, SAME KITCHEN

SYSTEMS.

>> RAND WRITES IN HIS LETTERS

THAT HIS MOTHER WAS COMMITTED TO

PILGRIM STATE ASYLUM IN

LONG ISLAND.

AS A TEENAGER, HE WOULD OFTEN

GO THERE TO VISIT.

WITH A POPULATION THAT ONCE

TOPPED 13,000, PILGRIM STATE WAS

AT TIMES THE LARGEST MENTAL

INSTITUTION IN THE WORLD, MUCH

LIKE WILLOWBROOK.

THIS NEW CONNECTION TO RAND'S

FAMILY WAS SOMETHING WE COULDN'T

IGNORE.

WE TRIED SEVERAL TIMES TO

CONTACT A WOMAN WHO WE THOUGHT

WAS RAND'S SISTER.

>> EXCUSE ME.

WE'RE DOING A DOCUMENTARY, AND

WE WANTED TO SPEAK TO YOU

ABOUT -- I THINK IT'S YOUR

BROTHER, ANDRE RAND.

RIGHT.

WAS THERE SOMETHING THAT

HAPPENED IN HIS LIFE THAT YOU

THINK KIND OF SET HIM ON THIS

WRONG PATH?

RIGHT.

>> WE'RE NOT TRYING TO GET

ANYBODY TO CONFESS TO ANYTHING.

>> NO, IT'S JUST A "WHY?"

>> RIGHT.

>> YEAH, TRY TO UNDERSTAND WHY.

YEAH.

>> RECEIVED FRIDAY, JUNE 20th.

[ Receiver clicks ]

>> DO YOU STILL FEEL LIKE THEY

DIDN'T DO ENOUGH AT THE TIME?

>> I DON'T FEEL -- I THINK THEY

ALL WORKED, BUT I DON'T FEEL IT

WAS COORDINATED PROPERLY.

I MEAN, THERE'S SO MANY THINGS

THAT ARE COMING OUT THAT I

DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT.

AND HERE THEY ARE, AND HAD THEY

BEEN FOLLOWED UP, I WOULDN'T BE

HERE TODAY.

IT WOULD'VE BEEN SETTLED 23

YEARS AGO.

>> YOU THINK HE'S GONNA GET

CONVICTED?

>> NOT WITH THIS EVIDENCE,

BECAUSE IT'S NOT CREDIBLE.

>> YOU'VE GOT 12 PEOPLE, AND

SOME PEOPLE JUST COULD GET HUNG

UP ON SOMETHING AND BELIEVE THAT

HE'S GUILTY OR NOT.

>> THE QUESTION OF INNOCENCE OR

GUILT IS MORE FUNDAMENTAL IN ONE

CASE.

THIS GUY HAS A TRACK RECORD.

AND THAT JURY, IN THEIR HEARTS,

THEY PERMIT THIS GUY TO GO FREE,

IS ONLY GONNA SEE ANOTHER

TRAGEDY.

>> THE JURY HAD TAKEN THE

WEEKEND TO DELIBERATE RAND'S

FATE, WHICH GAVE US THE

OPPORTUNITY TO SEEK OUT ONE LAST

PERSON -- REVEREND MUSKETT, A

STOREFRONT PREACHER WHO HAD

HOUSED RAND IN THE FINAL DAYS

BEFORE HIS ARREST IN '87.

FOR MONTHS, WE HAD SEARCHED

FOR HIS WHEREABOUTS UNTIL A

DETECTIVE FINALLY REVEALED HIS

ADDRESS.

[ KNOCK ON DOOR ]

>> HEY, I'M LOOKING FOR

MR. MUSKETT.

>> I DON'T KNOW IF HE REALLY

WANTS TO BE INVOLVED ANYMORE IN

THIS AT ALL OR NOT.

>> MAYBE YOU FEEL LIKE YOUR

FAMILY GOT NEGATIVE ATTENTION AS

A RESULT OF IT, I'M SURE.

>> YEAH, BECAUSE --

>> WELL, ACTUALLY WE DID.

>> YEAH.

>> IT'S ONE OF THE REASONS WHY

WE CAME TO PENNSYLVANIA.

>> Both: RIGHT.

>> SO, RAND WAS LIVING IN YOUR

HOUSE WHILE HE WAS UNDER

SUSPICION FOR TAKING JENNIFER?

>> YES.

IT WAS AT THE POLICE'S OWN

INSISTENCE THAT WE TOOK

ANDRE RAND IN.

THEY BUGGED THE HOUSE, AND THEY

HAD A SURVEILLANCE VEHICLE

SITTING ON THE CORNER DAY AND

NIGHT.

WE COULDN'T TELL THE COMMUNITY

WHAT WE WERE DOING BECAUSE,

OBVIOUSLY, IF WE DID, HE WOULD

KNOW AND WOULD LEAVE.

SO AS FAR AS THE COMMUNITY KNEW,

WE WERE FRIENDS OF ANDRE RAND.

>> DID THEY PHYSICALLY THREATEN

YOU?

>> SOME PEOPLE HAD.

THEY DIDN'T VIEW ME AS A FRIEND.

BUT I WAS A FRIEND OF JENNIFER.

>> WHY DO YOU BELIEVE HE TOOK

JENNIFER?

>> HE TOLD ME.

HE TOLD ME HE TOOK HER.

HE TOOK HER BECAUSE HE THOUGHT

THAT HER FAMILY DIDN'T WANT HER

AND THAT SHE WAS ALONE, AND HE

FELT THAT PEOPLE THAT HAD MENTAL

HANDICAPS AND THAT SHOULDN'T BE

ALIVE...

NOT THINKING THAT PEOPLE WOULD

APPRECIATE OR CARE FOR OR LIKE

SOMEONE WHO HAS A MENTAL

HANDICAP.

>> ANDRE BELIEVED THAT THESE

YOUNG GIRLS CAME FROM FAMILIES

THAT THEY COULDN'T GIVE THEM

ANYTHING, SO THE BEST THING WAS

THAT THEY WEREN'T AROUND.

>> HE SEEMED TO THINK IT WAS

PART OF HIS MISSION TO CLEANSE

THE WORLD OF...

"IMPERFECT CHILDREN" IN HIS

EYES.

>> DUE TO THE FACT THAT HIS

MOTHER HAD SOME SORT OF MENTAL

DISABILITY AND THE FACT THAT HE

VIEWED THESE OTHER PEOPLE THAT

WERE LESS THAN PERFECT, AND I

PERSONALLY FEEL THAT RATHER THAN

SEE THEM MAYBE GROW UP AND HAVE

CHILDREN, HE WAS SPARING THEM

AND TAKING THEM OUT.

>> ONE OF MY SONS IS MENTALLY

RETARDED, WHICH HUNG AROUND WITH

HIM.

HIS NAME'S CHIPPY.

AND THAT'S PROBABLY WHAT DRAWN

HIM TO...

WELL, TO US, BECAUSE OF CHIPPY

BEING THE WAY HE IS.

I THINK HE'S POSSESSED.

I REALLY THINK THAT HE IS

DEMONIZED AND POSSESSED.

>> WE HAD THE SAME QUESTIONS

THAT YOU'RE ASKING ME -- WHY DID

HE DO THIS?

WHAT SET HIM OFF?

BELIEVE ME, WE WERE WIDE-OPEN

FOR ANY TYPE OF MOTIVE.

WHEN WE DID INTERVIEW HIM

FINALLY, THERE WAS GONNA BE A

FINAL INTERVIEW, AND WE WERE

GONNA TAKE HIM BACK THROUGH HIS

ALIBI, AND THAT'S WHY WE RENTED

A HOTEL ROOM.

WE SAID, "ANDRE, LOOK, WE GOT

THIS TAPE OF WILLOWBROOK.

REMEMBER YOU USED TO WORK AT

WILLOWBROOK?"

"OH YEAH, IT WAS TERRIBLE."

I SAID, "REMEMBER HOW

GERALDO RIVERA DID THE EXPOSé?"

HE SAID, "YEAH, BUT I NEVER

SAW IT."

"WELL, WE HAVE IT.

WOULD YOU LIKE TO COME UP AND

SEE IT?

CAUSE WE HAVE A VCR UP THERE."

AND HE SAID, "YOU KNOW, I'D

REALLY LIKE THAT."

AND WE'RE SAYING, "WELL, HE DID

WORK AT WILLOWBROOK FOR TWO

YEARS.

HE WAS A PHYSICAL THERAPIST.

MAYBE THERE'S SOMETHING ON THAT

TAPE THAT'S GONNA SHAKE HIM."

>> PERHAPS THE GOVERNOR CAN

DEFEND AND EXPLAIN AWAY THE

BUDGET CUTS FOR THE DEPARTMENT

OF MENTAL HYGIENE, AND PERHAPS

DR. MILLER CAN EXPLAIN AND

DEFEND THE FILTHY, DEHUMANIZING

CONDITIONS WE FOUND IN THIS AND

OTHER BUILDINGS, BUT THEY WON'T

DO IT ON THIS PROGRAM.

WHAT WE FOUND AND DOCUMENTED

HERE IS A DISGRACE TO ALL OF US.

THIS PLACE ISN'T A SCHOOL.

IT'S A DARK CORNER WHERE WE

THROW CHILDREN WHO AREN'T PRETTY

TO LOOK AT.

IT'S THE BIG TOWN'S LEPER

COLONY.

>> WE WERE SITTING ON BOTH SIDES

OF HIM...

>> AND HE STARTED TO CRY.

>> HE STARTED TO CRY.

>> AND HE SAID, "DO YOU SEE HOW

IT WAS?

YOU SEE HOW IT WAS?

WE WERE VICTIMS, TOO," MEANING

THE ATTENDANTS OR THE PEOPLE

THAT WORKED THERE.

HE JUST SAT THERE, AND HIS EYES,

LIKE, ROLLED, AND HE JUST

STARTED DROOLING IN THE HOTEL

ROOM.

>> WE COULD SEE WHAT WAS

HAPPENING TO HIM, AND IT'S LIKE

YOU WOULD KNEEL RIGHT IN FRONT

OF HIM.

"SAY IT.

TELL US THE TRUTH NOW."

YOU KNOW, "GOD WILL FORGIVE

YOU."

WE WERE SO CLOSE.

WE THOUGHT WE HAD IT.

THEN HE JUST STARTED TO ROCK.

>> HE WAS THAT WAY THAT WHOLE

NIGHT, THE WHOLE NEXT DAY, AND

HE DIDN'T START TALKING TO

PEOPLE UNTIL TWO OR THREE DAYS

LATER.

>> AS MUCH AS IT HAD STARTED, IN

THE END, IT ALL CAME BACK TO

WILLOWBROOK.

WERE THE ANSWERS TO THESE

MISSING CHILDREN FOUND ON

GERALDO'S TAPE?

AND IF SO, HAD THE SINS OF

WILLOWBROOK FINALLY COME BACK TO

HAUNT THE RESIDENTS OF

STATEN ISLAND?

>> ALL NEWS, ALL THE TIME.

THIS IS 1010 WINS.

YOU GIVE US 22 MINUTES, WE'LL

GIVE YOU THE WORLD.

>> A GUILTY VERDICT 23 YEARS

AFTER 7-YEAR-OLD

HOLLY ANN HUGHES VANISHED FROM

OUTSIDE OF HER STATEN ISLAND

HOME.

>> THIS IS THE HEROES RIGHT

HERE.

>> HEROES, HEROES, HEROES,

HEROES.

HE'S A KILLER.

HE'S A KILLER AND A KIDNAPPER.

>> TELL US WHERE SHE IS.

TELL US WHERE THE OTHER KIDS

ARE.

I'LL GO LOOK FOR THEM.

I'LL FIND THEM.

THE OTHER ONES, OF COURSE, YES.

THERE'S SPECULATION.

BUT WE WILL MAKE SURE THAT THOSE

CASES SOMEDAY COME TO TRIAL AND

THAT THE REST OF THOSE FAMILIES

HAVE THE SAME TYPE OF JUSTICE

THAT THE SCHWEIGER'S AND THE

HUGHES HAVE.

>> A LOT OF WEIGHT IS LIFTED OFF

ME RIGHT NOW.

>> I FEEL BETTER.

>> DO YOU FEEL ANY CLOSURE ABOUT

THE VERDICT?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, IT...

IT'S NOT GONNA BRING BACK

HOLLY ANN.

YOU KNOW THAT.

BUT...

[ Voice breaking ] SHE'S

WATCHING.

THAT'S ENOUGH.

>> WELL, THE KILLER HAD A LOT OF

NICKNAMES -- THE PIED PIPER,

HANNIBAL LECHTER, THE BOGEYMAN

OF STATEN ISLAND.

HIS VICTIMS WERE AMONG THE

MOST VULNERABLE.

THEY WERE CHILDREN.

AND TONIGHT, PROSECUTORS ARE

MAKING SURE THAT PREDATOR STAYS

BEHIND BARS.

>> 23 YEARS AGO, THE ENTIRE CITY

WAS TRANSFIXED WITH THE IMAGE OF

AN INNOCENT 7-YEAR-OLD GIRL WHO

DISAPPEARED IN THE BLINK OF AN

EYE.

SADLY, HOLLY ANN HUGHES HAS

NEVER MADE IT HOME.

>> MR. RAND...

>> WHAT THE CONVICTION TODAY

DOES IS ASSURE US THAT

ANDRE RAND WILL DIE IN PRISON.

>> ANDRE RAND WAS SENTENCED 25

YEARS TO LIFE FOR THE KIDNAPPING

OF HOLLY ANN HUGHES.

HE WILL BE ELIGIBLE FOR PAROLE

IN 2037.

HE WILL BE 93 YEARS OLD.

>> OOH.

>> YEAH.

>> NO MATTER HOW HORRIBLE THE

ALLEGATION WAS, THIS CASE WAS

HARDLY A CASE WHERE IT WAS

PROVED CONCLUSIVELY THAT THIS

GUY COMMITTED THIS CRIME.

>> THAT JUST GOES TO SHOW, WHEN

IT COMES TO A CHILD IS HURT, AN

INNOCENT CHILD IS LOST...

YOU KNOW, PEOPLE WANT TO

BASICALLY LYNCH YOU.

AND IF THEY HAD AN OPPORTUNITY

TO LYNCH ANYBODY, THEY WOULD

LYNCH RAND.

>> DID YOU EVER THINK YOU WOULD

GET TO THIS DAY?

>> NO.

>> NO, NEVER THOUGHT I'D GET

HERE.

I DON'T FEEL LIKE I GOT CLOSURE

AT ALL.

YOU KNOW, I MEAN, YOU NEVER GET

CLOSURE, AND THAT'S JUST A

BULLSHIT WORD, TOO.

I MEAN, IT HAPPENED, AND THAT'S

IT.

YOU GOT TO LIVE WITH IT.

YOU HAVE NO CHOICE.

I'D JUST LIKE TO FIND HER

REMAINS AND...

PUT IT TO REST.

>> ACTUALLY, PART OF THE

TESTIMONY IN THIS CASE, HE

CLAIMED THAT WE WERE LOOKING IN

THE WRONG SPOT.

WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT?

I'LL MAKE SURE WE LOOK IN THE

RIGHT SPOT.

>> WHERE WOULD THAT BE?

>> THAT'S WILLOWBROOK.

NOW'S THE TIME TO USE WHAT WE

LEARNED FROM THIS ONE TO REOPEN

ANOTHER ONE OF THE CASES.

I THINK HE LIKES PLAYING THIS

LITTLE HEAD GAME.

I THINK WE'RE GONNA GET LITTLE

HINTS OVER THE NEXT FEW YEARS.

YOU KNOW, HE LIKES TO BE THE

CENTER OF ATTENTION, THE ONE

THAT HOLDS -- THE KEEPER OF THE

SECRETS, AND I THINK THAT'S

GONNA PLAY A REAL IMPORTANT

PART.

>> DONNA, JUST SAY YOUR FULL

NAME FOR ME, AND TELL ME AGAIN

THE TITLE OF YOUR ORGANIZATION.

>> OKAY.

IT'S DONNA CUTUGNO. C-U-T-U-G...

>> WAS ANDRE RAND CONVICTED ON

FACT OR FICTION?

WE'LL PROBABLY NEVER KNOW.

BUT FOR THE RESIDENTS OF

STATEN ISLAND, THERE WAS NO

DISTINCTION.

HE WAS THEIR CHILD MURDERER,

THEIR SCAPEGOAT, AND THEIR

BOGEYMAN ALL TIGHTLY WOVEN INTO

ONE.

TO SOME, ANDRE RAND WAS THE

RINGLEADER TO AN UNDERGROUND

COMMUNITY OF OUTCASTS WHO ROAMED

THE WOODS.

TO OTHERS, HE WAS AN UNWITTING

PUPPET, MANIPULATED BY A DEVIANT

CULT THAT TRAFFICKED IN

CHILDREN...

OR A DELUSION MURDERER, FUELED

BY OUR OWN URBAN FAILURES,

KILLING THOSE HE THOUGHT WEREN'T

WORTHY OF LIVING.

WE WILL NEVER KNOW THE REAL

STORY BEHIND ANDRE RAND, SO ALL

WE'RE LEFT WITH IS OUR

VERSION, THAT OF CROPSEY.

BUT NOW WE'VE ADDED ANOTHER

CHAPTER FOR THE NEXT GENERATION

OF KIDS ON STATEN ISLAND.

THE POWER OF THE URBAN LEGEND

IS THAT IT DOESN'T CLAIM TO BE

THE TRUTH, BUT RATHER IT SAYS

THE TRUTH IS A RANGE OF

POSSIBILITIES, AND IT'S THE

AUDIENCE WHO MUST DECIDE.

SO PICK ONE.