All language subtitles for Curry & Cyanide - The Jolly Joseph Case (2023)_track4_[eng]

This could have been any house in Kerala,

but what unfolded within its confines
was something unheard of.

Today in Koodathayi,
during the quiet hours of the morning,

while most in town were still sleeping,

Jolly Joseph, a respected local mother,

was taken into custody in a case

which has sent shockwaves
through all of India.

Present at the time of her arrest
was her son, Remo.

The arrest was made early in the morning.

Only my brother and I were there
during the arrest.

A team had quickly arrived…

A police officer named Jeevan
and two lady officers had arrived.

They were saying
that they were going to take her away.

I was completely shocked.

Being completely shocked,
I didn't know what to do.

Until that day,
we believed that the deaths

of our close family members were natural.

I had doubts until the very end.

I can never see that person
as my mother again.

A shocking story is emerging
out of Koodathayi,

a sleepy village
in Kozhikode district of north Kerala.

Jolly Joseph has been arrested
for allegedly

killing her mother-in-law, father-in-law,

husband, and three others
over a period of 14 years

without raising anyone's suspicions.

In a first for Kerala police,

the mortal remains of the six victims

are being exhumed
from their graves on the same day.

In the midst of it all, a woman
named Jolly stands as the mastermind.

But who was Jolly?

How did she manage to commit six murders

without family or locals
raising any suspicion?

Jolly, the primary accused in this case,

was a faculty
at the National Institute of Technology.

As far as I know, she also had
a good connection with the church.

Many find it hard to believe

that a woman,

known to be family-oriented,

well-respected, and liked,

could be a cold-blooded killer.

KARUNYA RESIDENCE ASSOCIATION
K.G. SIMON IPS, KAIYYALAKYAGATTU

I am K.G. Simon, Indian Police Service.

I've retired now.

While I was working for 37 years,
my whole life and career

was that of a police officer.

In 2019, I was in Kollam
as a District Police Superintendent

before being transferred

to Kozhikode Rural District
as the Superintendent of Police.

And while I was in my office,

a report by the DYSP of Thamarassery
was brought before me.

The report was about Roy's death
at the Ponnamattam house in 2011.

Roy died in the year 2011.

The Ponnamattam family
was prominent in Koodathayi.

Roy Thomas was the eldest son.

The complaint was filed
by Roy's sister, Renji,

and Roy's brother.

The report clearly stated

that Roy died
due to consumption of cyanide.

But where did he get the cyanide from,
or how he consumed it,

or what difficulty
could have led Roy wanting to die,

none of the facts were mentioned.

That's when I decided

to start the investigation of Roy's case.

The first meeting with Jolly Joseph
was at the crime branch office.

It was after her arrest

that I started to question her
when we took her in custody.

Initially, it was very difficult
for her to speak.

Later, she opened up when I started
showing her the evidence collected.

As a matter of fact, we have been
investigating this case for two months.

We have interrogated about 200 people.
No one knew about it.

Only over the course of this investigation

were we able to narrow our focus down
to the woman named Jolly,

who has since been arrested as a suspect.

Is she cooperating with the police?

Yes, she is cooperating.

When a person gives a statement
while in police custody,

we don't need to take it seriously.

It can never be used against the accused,

which is a true fact.

Whether prosecution
brings the confession or not,

this confession
does not have any validity.

What happened in reality is not
what is written in the charge sheet.

The most important thing Jolly told me,
right in our first interaction,

was that she did not commit this crime.

This story has absolutely exploded
across India.

Kerala, a region known for its
high levels of education and employment,

is now in the headlines
for this bizarre tragedy.

Everything changed after the story broke.

Koodathayi was thronged by a lot
of people, who were mere spectators.

Almost every day for a month,

reporters were camping outside
the Ponnamattam home.

In fact, I am one such reporter, you know,

who actually camped out.

There were a lot of neighbors
who were very upset about Jolly.

And there were contradicting takes
on who she was.

Some would say that she was very good.

Others would say that,

"No, but she always had
this dark side to her."

Jolly is a woman
who interacts well with everyone.

She has a good rapport
with my family members.

There is no difference in opinion
regarding Jolly amongst them.

Jolly surely has a mental disability.

Now, our sources suggest that she was,
in fact, connected to a sex racket.

I heard people making catcalls
around that time

saying, "Kattappana."

And she is "high range."

So I realized that

because of the place
that she came from, Kattappanna.

The fact that it was from the high ranges,
a hilly terrain,

all these things were actually posed
as some sort of a bad thing against her.

I felt like most reports
were trying to showcase

the most salacious aspects of the story.

No one seemed to be asking
the most important questions.

Who was Jolly Joseph

and what made her do
the things that she allegedly did?

And I think that was one of the reasons

why I felt that I should
do a story about Jolly Joseph.

I'll go to Kattappana and see
where did Jolly grow up?

And after speaking to Jolly's family
in Kattappana, I came to understand.

Jolly's family is actually
a family of farmers.

She was really not comfortable

being in a house where people
were expected to do work for a living.

She was flamboyant.

She wanted to live a cool life.

I think that was there when

Jolly decided to get married to Roy

because the Ponnamattam family is a very
established family in Koodathayi.

This is a family which is settled in
a different part of the state altogether,

a different culture and everything

so getting married
into a family of employed people

could mean a different
lifestyle altogether.

Maybe she would have
the kind of luxury which she had wanted.

As children,

we grew up like it was
in any other normal family.

I, my elder brother, and my sister.

Rojo and I would play
with the neighborhood kids.

But my eldest brother, Roy,
was an introvert at that time.

He would not come to play much.

Roy was six and a half years
older than me.

So I had a lot of respect for him
and a little fear, for sure.

My mother was a teacher
in a nearby school,

so she has taught all the kids
of that town around that time.

My father was in the education department,

which is why he was so highly respected
and had a good reputation.

Our family gave a lot of importance
to education.

After a few years,
when Roy was pursuing pre-degree,

Rojo came to me to tell me something.

Rojo was a mischievous kid at that age

and said he had found a letter
intended for Roy

from someone named Jolly.

So I opened the letter and read it,

and I understood what it was.

I found the addresser
as Jolly Joseph Kattappana.

The first time I met Jolly was

at my maternal Uncle Manchadiyil Mathew's
housewarming ceremony.

So my Uncle Manchadiyil Mathew's
wife's brother's daughter, is Jolly.

She was short
and wore high-heeled sandals.

In those times, people didn't wear
high-heeled sandals, but Jolly did.

At those times,
kids would meet and exchange letters.

There was no other mode of communication.

So through love letters,
they started liking each other.

Roy admitted to his affair
and was serious about her.

But my father was literally
not interested in this marriage.

The main reason for his dislike
could be because they were related to us.

But Jolly told everyone
that she was a qualified professional

who passed MCom with 50% of marks.

So I heard Mother saying,

"It's okay,

because once Jolly comes here,
she can pursue further studies or work.

Since she has a master in commerce,
she will definitely get a good job."

So that's why my mother
wanted to get them settled soon.

It was raining throughout the wedding.

Now, people look back
and say that was a bad omen.

My father was upset.
Even during the wedding, he was upset.

I remember he wouldn't talk much with her.

In our house, it was the first wedding.

So as usual, there was excitement.

We never imagined that the marriage
would be a disaster like this.

Seventeen years ago, Jolly Joseph
married Roy and moved here to Koodathayi

and into the home
of Tom and Annamma Thomas.

This well-respected family
welcomed her with open arms,

which makes what Jolly did in this house
all the more shocking.

The Ponnamattam house
is right in front of our house.

I saw Jolly when she came here
after marriage.

Wherever she went,
she spoke to everybody so well.

She was close with the neighbors.
She was a star between them.

She was like that.

Since they were newlyweds,

neighbors, relatives and family friends
would invite them for lunch.

Soon, she carved out a space for herself
in our family and with relatives.

Roy would leave in the morning for work.

So Jolly was relatively free.

She learned to cook food and all.

She used to cook traditional food.

We used to go to the hotel
to have food and go shopping.

Jolly was very fond of shopping,
especially jewelry.

Jolly just seemed so happy.

But then Mother said,

"There is no need to sit idle at home
after your studies. You can get a job.

Go for a job, settle in life."

"If both husband and wife start working,

then both can share
life's burdens equally."

I would tell Mother,
"Let her do what she likes."

Jolly Joseph's mother-in-law

had a very different culture.

She was a mother-in-law
who believes that an educated girl

should not be sitting idle at home
without working,

which is a good perspective to have.

But for Jolly,
that was tremendous pressure.

Some girls do not wish to go for any job.
They like to stay at home.

But at that time,
she became pregnant with Remo.

So we dropped that plan then.

The Ponnamattam house in Koodathayi
is where I was born and grew up.

I definitely have
a very close attachment with that house.

I am the first child of the family.

I got all the privileges provided
to a first child from everyone.

Ours was a big family.

A very happy family.

After Remo was born, my mother would say,

"Jolly can go to work,
I will look after the baby."

My mother told her,

"I will take care of him.
You don't worry, Jolly.

Since you have a good qualification,
get a job.

Once you get a job, you will get settled."

Mother repeatedly said that.

From my investigation,
I had come to understand

that from the day Jolly Joseph married Roy
and came to Ponnamattam house,

Jolly used to tell people,
that she is an MCom graduate,

but what Jolly told me was,

"This degree that I created

was the greatest mistake
that I have committed in life."

What Jolly said was,

Annamma Thomas was not aware

that Jolly Joseph
did not have such a qualification.

So Annamma used to tell Jolly,
though she had such a high qualification,

why is she not trying for a job?

So arguments like this were going on.

When this reached an intensified state,

Jolly's father, Joseph,
came to visit them.

Jolly was sure that Annamma Thomas
would speak to her father

about sending her for a job.

And when Annamma said so,

Joseph would definitely say that
Jolly does not have such a qualification

and Jolly was sure she would be caught.

We were getting ready
to have our breakfast.

Roy was playing music
at a high volume upstairs.

The dining room was visible
from the kitchen.

I was preparing chicken in the kitchen.

I saw Mother taking water
and walking away.

I still remember clearly,
after around 20 minutes, I got the feeling

that I should check on Mother.

That thought occurred to me.

When I got there,

I saw Mother sitting with her legs
outstretched on the bed,

leaning against the window.

She had tears in her eyes.
I asked her what happened.

She said,
"I am going to die. Call everyone."

I rushed out, shut off the electricity,
and screamed.

When I ran downstairs
and reached her side,

Mother was lying on the bed with fear.

The blood was surging up
and there was a bloody hue all over.

Mother said,
"I can't breathe, I am dying."

So I asked my brother
to call the doctor quickly.

Her legs were moving up
and her body started jerking.

Finally, a doctor arrived.

The doctor checked her pulse and said,
"Quickly, take her to the hospital!"

A jeep arrived immediately

and it was speeding towards
Omassery Hospital, with headlights on.

Without even waiting
to switch off the engine,

I had put the vehicle on gear
and ran to the casualty.

I told the doctor to do
whatever checkup is required.

She was taken inside.

After five minutes,
the doctor said that she died.

Koodathayi really wept.

We were all devastated.

My mother's death devoured me
mentally and physically.

My mind kept telling me
that my mother would come back.

But my mother did not come back.

We didn't have any suspicion
about our mother's death.

We thought the stroke was hereditary.

Circumstances didn't lead to any doubt.

The first victim was Annamma,
who died in 2002.

Because she was a little old and she was
suffering from a lot of illnesses,

the family did not really insist
on a postmortem.

A case that happened in 2002

was disclosed by the police
after a span of 18 years.

So what evidential value has it got?

It is true that Annamma died.

But is it a murder, a heart attack,
or a suicide?

These things have to be proved
by the prosecution.

Therefore, in Annamma's case,
the evidence is very weak.

After the burial, what I noticed was,

the Jolly I saw after Mother's death
had a completely different personality.

Jolly was doing
all the work systematically.

Be it household or outdoor related,
whatever Mother used to take care of.

So in such matters, Jolly became
the prime person in the family.

My mother had written in her diary

that she had deposited
some money in my name.

And she had left some gold jewelry for me.
I had no idea.

And for some reason, Jolly told me,

"Mother had written in her diary
that certain things are for you, right?

Apart from that, you are not getting
anything else from the property here."

But this behavior was only towards me.

This was not how
she would behave with outsiders

or with Father.

So I used to always wonder
why is she indifferent to me.

Like one morning,

I had given something to someone
and Jolly gave me a warning.

"From now on,

you must ask me before giving anything
to anyone from this house."

She said,
"Don't do anything without asking me."

I wasn't able to say anything
to my father.

I wasn't able to tell my father
that Jolly was torturing me mentally

as he was already going through a lot
in his life.

Then two or three days later,
Jolly told me,

"I am not going to work."

"Shouldn't there be someone here?"
She asked me.

"I have to take care of my father-in-law,

so I am not going to leave the family,"
she said.

Once my mother died,
she could take full charge.

That's what had happened.

When the mother-in-law passed away,
Jolly became the next homemaker.

When Jolly got overall control
of the Ponnamattam family,

she must have found it entertaining
to receive increased recognition.

She must have desired it.

Jolly Joseph felt
she would be regarded and respected well

by her family, her relatives,
and by society.

But later,
Jolly understood that being a teacher,

Mother earned a good reputation,
love, and respect from people.

So if Jolly has a job like that too,
she can gain everything too.

One day, when I called Father,

he told me

that Jolly got a job
as a guest lecturer at NIT.

Father said that it is good
because it's close to our house.

Even though
it is a post of guest lecturer,

in the future,
the job would become permanent.

I asked him
how much salary she is getting.

Father replied that Jolly said that
she would get 40,000 rupees as salary.

I was too young
when she got the job at NIT.

It was a huge institution.

There's a canteen at NIT and we would
have food there and then return.

She gained immense respect
in our Koodathayi area.

She always has a preference over others,
being a lecturer at NIT.

The community was in awe at the fact
that despite her being an NIT lecturer,

she was humble and pleasant enough
to mingle easily with everyone.

NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY,
CALICUT

When you say
that you are a professor at NIT,

people tend to have a "wow" reaction.

We know that the family
in which Jolly was born and raised

was an agricultural family.

It was a big thing for a girl

to reach that level
from an agricultural family.

That's when Jolly finally got respect
from both sides of our family,

Mother and Father's side.

When relatives came home,

Jolly showed a lot of interest
in welcoming them,

making the food they like and such.

I remember this happening many times
whenever there were guests…

Jolly would take Father's shirts.

The ironing table was next to the stairs.

So everyone could see
Jolly ironing the shirts.

I got married in 2005

and then I moved to Colombo
with my husband.

In April 2007, I brought my father over
for a one-month visit.

And again, I brought him over
for a one-month visit in 2008.

At that time, Father had health issues
and became lean.

He was not as he used to be at all.

I wondered if he was down mentally.

There was a dispute
between Tom Thomas and Jolly Joseph.

M.S. Mathew was a regular visitor
at their home.

M.S. Mathew
is Annamma's elder brother's son.

Mathew is working
as a salesman in a jewelry shop.

Mathew became her best friend.

Tom Thomas knew about this

and he asked Jolly Joseph

as to why he came there so often
and what his purpose was

to which she gave him some justifications.

It was then that my father
began discussing things with me.

"Jolly says one thing,
but I see her doing the other.

If I ask her questions,
she beats around the bush.

Then she is always in a corner
with her phone

or she goes to the field
and speaks on the phone."

Father was mentally upset about things.

He did not know what was happening.

One evening after his coffee,
as usual, he had a capsule.

And these capsules are mushroom capsules.

She went ahead and gave Thomas
the mushroom tablet.

Thomas took the medicine,
and instantly, he felt some discomfort.

He fell down unconsciously
near the washbasin.

She didn't even attempt to help the man.

She called someone who lived nearby,

who took him to a hospital in a rickshaw.

Tom Thomas died
on his way to the hospital.

They took a lot of time
to take my father to the hospital.

I asked, "Why did it take so long?"

She said, "I couldn't find the car keys,
so it took time."

The father was believed
to have died of a heart attack.

Jolly somehow prevented them
from performing the autopsy.

She convinced the doctors
that it was a heart attack

and brought the body back to the house.

He was buried in Mother's grave.

When my father's dead body
was laid to rest,

Jolly and M.S. Mathew were seen talking
at a distance from everyone else.

So I asked my brother

what was the relation between them

and why are they speaking in a low voice,
standing away from others.

So my brother, Roy, said

they have cash dealings
and they must be discussing it.

When I went through
the second case in detail,

the proofs about the case were very weak.

"She told everyone that it was
a heart attack and they believed it."

That may be true.

But how can a doctor believe it?

Why did the doctor himself not realize

that this was not a heart attack?

How can our medical science
believe the words of a mere witness?

The next victim in the case was Tom Thomas

who died in 2008.

There was a difference of six years

between the first two deaths in this case.

But because there was a huge gap
between the first

and the second deaths
or murders in this case,

it was very difficult
for the family members

to assume something suspicious in this

because there was nothing unusual
about it.

Because of the way this poison was used,
there wasn't any visible injury

or anything that would suggest
that this was a murder.

At the time of the burial,

Jolly was crying a lot towards the end.

Especially when the coffin
was being lowered into the ground,

she was crying a lot.

But when we got back home,
I saw the same Jolly yet again.

I told you what happened
after Mother died, right?

She started managing things immediately.

After Mother died, we already felt
like we had no space in that house.

After Father left too,
that became a complete zero.

I was not that close to Jolly at all.

During the time of death,

she called me one day,
standing near this teak tree

and said she wanted to share a few things.

I asked her, "What is it?"

She said, "Three deaths
will take place in this house."

She said that the well and the house
are not built in the right place.

A wall should be made around the well

and the tree in front should be cut down.

If all of this is done,
then the deaths will not take place.

When I asked her how she knew about this,

she said that our priests
and their pastors had told her to do so.

Then I stayed away.

After that,
I completely stopped talking to her.

Actually, I was so close to them.
I was like their own family.

But then I completely
kept her away from me.

After Tom and Annamma,
the next death in the Ponnamattam family

wouldn't occur for another two years

which allowed Jolly the opportunity
to quell any suspicions about the deaths

and rebuild trust with her neighbors
and people in the town.

After that,
our family became even smaller.

But I was four or five years old,
maybe studying in LKG or UKG,

when my mother was pregnant

and my brother was born.

When my younger brother was born,
I was very excited and happy,

and that excitement continued.

There were a lot of good moments

and we led a very happy life
for quite a long time.

But gradually, as I grew up to age,

I could understand and see
the issues happening in the house.

Until that age, we were not seriously
concerned about these things.

As time progressed, a gap began to form
in the connection we had with Mother.

There arose a disconnection
between Mother and Father too.

It was like everyone just split up

from each other and moved
to four corners of the house.

Mother would always be busy saying
she had college work or paper evaluations.

We felt that we were not given
any preference in her life.

Later, Roy's business did not flourish
as he expected.

So they became short of funds.

Roy did not have any means of livelihood

and towards the end,
it became problematic.

A few days before the incident,
Rojo called me and said

that Jolly had called him and said that

she was thinking of a divorce.

Roy was not taking care of things
and there were other problems as well.

After that, in the evening,

while Rojo and I
were sitting in Father's room,

Roy came in.

He came in and showed us a Xerox copy
of Father's will and said,

"Father has mentioned in his will

that the ownership of this house and land
will be transferred to Jolly and me."

Renji immediately took it from him
and asked,

"Is this the will?"

This is not on a stamp paper

and it doesn't bear
the signatures of witnesses.

Suddenly, there was a pin-drop silence
in the room.

And then both of them left the room.

I just told Rojo to keep it with him.

I do think that
there was some sort of give and take

between Jolly and Roy as far as lies go.

Roy definitely knew some of her lies

because he himself was part of those lies.

I think they had a fallout.

Perhaps that is when the lies
started coming out.

And Jolly must have thought
that something has to be done about it.

Roy was also aware
of Jolly's illicit affair with Mathew.

There were discussions about this
between Roy and Jolly.

He started asking about her relationship
with Mathew, quite viciously,

and why she still continues it.

Jolly had the feeling that it's useless

to continue her life with Roy.

On September 30th, 2011,

Jolly fed the children early

and put them to sleep
in the room upstairs.

At around 8:00 p.m.,

she came down

and prepared rice and chickpeas curry
for Roy's dinner.

After Roy came home, he went upstairs
to where his children were sleeping

and asked them whether
they were pretending to be asleep.

Then he went downstairs in a happy mood.

Then he had dinner
and all of a sudden, he became restless.

He went to the bathroom.

She told me that Roy had come home
at around 3:00 p.m.

and had rice and Bengal gram curry.

"Then at night, he didn't have dinner.

I went to the kitchen to fry eggs
and that's when Roy went to the bathroom.

When I was done and I came out,
he didn't open the bathroom," she said.

She called me on the day Roy died.

She said, "Roy wasn't opening the door,"
and asked me to come and help.

I ran into their house.

Roy was lying on the floor
with foam coming out of his mouth.

Roy's uncle, Mathew,
came along with us at that time.

We took him to the hospital immediately.
They said he was brought dead.

I received a call at 11 o'clock…

that Roy had passed away.

We woke up seeing the lights on
in the house.

One of our relatives, an aunt,
was sitting on my bed beside us.

When I woke up, she told me that my father

slipped and fell in the bathroom
and has now been taken to the hospital.

I then went down to the ground floor.

On the ground floor,
they had kept Father's framed photo.

It was on the table

with some candles and flowers beside it.

We were gradually understanding
that Father was no more.

Mathew knew something was fishy
about Roy's death.

He insisted that a postmortem
should be conducted.

Then Jolly said that the person had died.

What is the use of doing a postmortem?

Even though that was Jolly's view,
she had to listen to Manchadiyil Mathew,

and the case was taken up,
and postmortem was done at that time.

The doctor who had conducted
Roy's postmortem

had mentioned very clearly
in the postmortem report

that death was due to cyanide consumption.

Jolly said they had debts
amounting to lakhs.

That's why he committed suicide.

That was Jolly's justification.

I blamed my brother

for creating debts and committing suicide.

We felt anger and hatred towards him.

And I was telling Renji,
"There is such a huge amount of debt.

How are we going to repay it?"

But no one came asking for it.

No one ever called me or Renji
to say that Roy had borrowed

even one rupee from them.

His own wife, Jolly, said
no inquiry was required.

So how can we push it?

So at that time, we signed the statement

saying that we don't need
any further investigation.

After Roy's death,
three members of the same family

had died in eerily similar ways.

One has to wonder why the remaining
family members were not more alarmed,

why so many red flags
were missed at the time,

and why more could not have been done

to prevent the most shocking
and horrific deaths yet to come.

I am the chief of Poison Control Center

at Amrita Institute of Medical Sciences
in Kerala.

There is a toxicological dictum.

When you come across cyanide
in a case of death,

first suspected murder,
regardless of what anybody may say…

Relatives or the others all may say
this is accidental, this is suicide…

But first, rule out murder.

Then you can latch on to suicide.

I'm surprised that
it did not strike the police.

In 2011, even after knowing about cyanide
in the postmortem report.

Why didn't Manchadiyil Mathew insist
on further investigation?

Even Roy's brother and sister
did not insist.

Why didn't the police find
where the poison came from?

Instead of inquiring more about this case,

police are simply insisting
that Jolly has committed the murders.

More than failure,
the fact of the matter is that

they did not take things seriously.

When they went to their house,
Jolly Joseph may have said,

"Don't bother us, it's a suicide."

A typical officer who thinks rationally

wouldn't expect his own wife to do this.

Especially in such a family.

That turned out to be helpful for Jolly.

Cyanide is very hazardous,
everybody knows.

When cyanide attacks,
even if oxygen is present in the body,

it cannot be utilized by tissues,
that's how the person dies.

Generally speaking,

cyanide poisoning
can mimic a heart attack.

If a large quantity
has been administered or ingested

or that is swallowed,
it will cause the same kind of collapse.

However, cyanide is almost impossible
to get by legitimate means in Kerala.

So anybody who wants cyanide

will have to get the license first.

For instance, goldsmiths use
salts of cyanide for polishing the metal.

Now, a person
who wants to kill may not have,

you know, the patience to go hunting
and get hold of cyanide.

As I said, it would be extremely difficult
for Jolly to acquire the cyanide.

So if she did,
how did she possibly get it?

Or who helped her get it?

Losing my father
was the biggest trauma of my life.

When we were with our friends, of course,
we were at that age…

It was difficult for us to openly say
that we had lost our father.

It was really difficult
to be without my father.

We were losing everyone.

Grandmother left us, then Grandfather,
and now our father left us.

It was a time of loss.

And then gradually, we reached a point
in life where it was just the three of us.

When we reached that stage in life,

it was then
that our real struggles actually started.

I went to the panchayat office
to pay the land tax,

the first step of transferring the house
and property to Jolly's name

was in process.

Rojo immediately called me
on hearing this.

I was shocked,
wondering what had happened.

How did she transfer the ownership?

I asked him to inquire about the documents
she produced to transfer the ownership?

She had made a fake will.

The will that she produced that day

now had all the things
I had said were missing then.

Ownership in the name of Tom Thomas

was transferred to the name of Roy Thomas,

then that was transferred to Jolly Thomas.

The notary's signature was there

and stamps were affixed.

Long back, I had told Rojo
to lock and keep the will safely.

It's still in Rojo's cupboard.

I told Rojo that this
single document is enough

to prove that all of this is fake.

Then Rojo said we have to cancel this

and get back all the property
in Father's name,

not in Jolly's name, as she is claiming.

The entire property
has to be transferred back.

We called all the elders of the family.

I told them everything.

I showed them the original will.

I told all of them that this is the will
shown to us when Father died.

When the new document came in,
it contained everything that wasn't in it.

I asked, "Did Father come back
and write it down?"

I only asked this single question.

I went back
to the panchayat office several times

and transferred everything back
to Father's name before I returned.

We did not file a case
for the sake of the children.

It had been only a year
since our brother died.

If she went to jail,
what would the children do?

For the sake of the children,
we forgave her

and let her live in that house
without any problems.

During that time, Uncle Manchadiyil Mathew
would call us often

and discuss what was going on.

And Jolly understood that he and I

had a close rapport
and we shared our thoughts.

He had a lot of suspicions about Jolly.

On the day when Roy died,

it was Manchadiyil Mathew who insisted

that Roy's body should be sent
for postmortem.

Thereafter, Manchadiyil Mathew
used to tell several people

that he had doubts
as to why Roy died suddenly.

He was a frequent visitor
to Jolly Joseph's house.

As such, he came to know
of Jolly's affair with M.S. Mathew

and he warned Jolly Joseph

she should not be continuing her affair
with M.S. Mathew as it was not right.

Jolly Joseph did not like this advice.

One day, between 5:30 and 6:00 p.m.,
I got a call from Jolly.

"Kunjumon Ichayan" is what
we called Uncle Manchadiyil.

She said, "Kunjumon Ichayan passed away."

I was shocked and said,
"Uncle passed away?"

I said, "We just spoke this afternoon,
just two hours ago!"

So she said, "Yes, he passed away,
I took him to the hospital, Renji."

In 2014 was when Mathew had died

under very similar circumstances as that

of the three people who died initially.

According to the police,

Mathew started becoming a threat to Jolly

and that is when Jolly decided
that Mathew should also be dead.

There is no evidence anywhere that Jolly

has given poison to Manchadiyil Mathew.

Unfortunately, no postmortem
was conducted.

I understand

that Manchadiyil Mathew
had problems with Jolly since 2011.

If that was the issue,
he could have avoided contacting Jolly.

Instead, he was very close to her.

When we look at all these murders,

we can see multiple timespans
over a long period of 10 to 17 years,

starting from Annamma Thomas
to the final one,

we would notice that the duration
between the murders is decreasing.

At first, there was a six-year gap,
which reduced gradually,

and finally, there was only two-year gap,
one in 2014 and the next in 2016.

That she took so many years
in between each murder

could have helped her
obfuscate her crimes.

The lady alleged
to have committed the crimes.

I think she did a lot of studies

over a period of time
and became more and more perfect

as the time went by,
how to use the poison,

how much to use it,
what situation to use it in.

But even though in this particular case,
the alleged perpetrator

did kill a number of people
over a period of time,

she is not the classical serial killer

because the motives
were completely different.

Serial killers are anyone
who commits more than two murders

and they commit it
in between having cooling periods.

Serial murders also have a specific kind
of signature or pattern that is followed.

As far as Jolly is concerned,

she tried her best to maintain
two versions of herself for so long,

doing what society expects out of her.

But on the other hand,

she is allegedly planning murders
and committing these acts.

Whether we want to call her
serial killer or not,

the only consistent thing
is the use of cyanide as poison,

but she also seemed to have
a legitimate motive,

which is financial gain.

She must have wished to possess
her husband's property

and her own family's property.

She desired
a good financial status and wealth

to make her life better and secure.

But to acquire it,
she begins committing crimes.

That is where she lost track of reality

and went into a world of fantasy.

So now, I can see Jolly as someone
who has created a world of her own,

something kind of unreal,
and does everything she wants within it.

Jolly's relentless pursuit of the life
she desired was unquenchable.

And with her options
more limited than before,

she began searching for a way forward.

Jolly had a desire to marry Shaju.

She even told many people
if she had a husband like Shaju,

she would be really happy.

Shaju Zacharias is Roy's first cousin.

Jolly was sure that Shaju
would take care of all her needs

because Shaju had a good job,
he was a teacher

and was fairly rich

and she desired
not to have any obligations.

I remember Jolly always used to tell me.

Sili is so lucky. Shaju has a job.

There is not much work at home.
She used to say this always.

Shaju Zacharias had two children.

The elder one is Abel
and the younger one is Alphine.

And only if their mother, Sili,
is murdered

would Jolly be able
to marry Shaju Zacharias.

She had killed her husband,

Roy's father and mother,
and later, his uncle.

And she was not caught yet…

so she started planning the next one.

On May 1st, 2014,

it was Abel's first Holy Communion.

All the invitees were gathered
at Shaju's residence for a meal.

Jolly and her children
came for the function.

We were invited to their home to celebrate
the first Holy Communion in great style.

So we asked Sili to join us to have food.

All of us sat at a table
and we were having food.

Alphine's aunt was holding her
to feed her.

Suddenly, Alphine started jumping

in the aunt's arms
and she started to fall backward.

And I could see very clearly

that her eyeballs were moving upwards…

Her eyeballs were rolling upwards.

All the people in the house
came running towards the child.

No one knew what had happened.

When the child became unconscious,
Sili became upset and shocked.

The child was taken to Omassery Hospital.

It was reported
that the child's condition was critical

and was put on a ventilator.

At the time, the family believed
Alphine had choked

on the food her aunt was feeding her.

But to learn that a two-year-old child
had been poisoned was just horrific.

Jolly was not just a woman, but a mother.

How could someone with her background

callously murder a baby
and feel no remorse?

She was a two-year-old child.

That brings to question

the basic humanity of the person
who committed this.

Women are looked up to
as mothers, nurturers, and caregivers.

And the fact that a woman
is capable of killing an innocent child

shatters that belief system to the core.

All are wondering about the Alphine case

as to why did Jolly
kill an innocent child,

what was her intention?

While I asked her again and again
why would she kill the child,

Jolly asked,

"What benefits do I get
by killing this small child?

The child is a minor, she will not be
an obstacle to my marriage."

After killing the mother,
she could have gotten married,

claiming that she wanted
to take care of the child.

Without any purpose,
why would she kill the child?

So I strongly believe
the truth is something else.

After Alphine's death in 2014,

Sili was mentally depressed.

It was during this time that
Jolly developed a friendship with Sili.

It was Jolly who took the initiative.

Sili used to tell Jolly

that she needed one more child and so on.

Sili used to say
that they wanted another girl.

Then Jolly told her

about the tablet
which her father-in-law was having.

Jolly said that mushroom capsules are good
for health and relieving depression

and Jolly persuaded Sili
to buy the mushroom tablets.

The last in this case was Sili,
who was Shaju's wife.

Shaju's wife actually died
while she was waiting at the reception

of a dental hospital or dental clinic
in Thamarassery.

Shaju was there,
Sili was there, and Jolly was also there.

Sili and Jolly were sitting outside,

in the visitor's room or rather the hall.

They were sitting there.

Jolly had previously filled
mushroom capsules with cyanide.

Jolly handed it to Sili and said,
"This is a mushroom tablet. Have it."

Sili trusted Jolly
and had the mushroom tablet.

Immediately, Sili fell backward.

After Sili passed away,

the doctors at the hospital
where Sili was admitted

told me that they had insisted
on a postmortem.

So at that time,
Shaju outrightly refused a postmortem.

He said that postmortem is not required

and he said that postmortems
are not common in our families.

As a lawyer, I wonder whether
it was actually Shaju's plan

to murder Sili and Alphine
to fulfill his own aim.

Shaju definitely could have
committed this murder to get Jolly.

This is what I'm wondering
as the case progresses,

while investigating other evidence.

When I heard about Sili's death,

I made it there purposefully.

I felt that since I couldn't attend
the child's funeral before that,

I must go there this time, definitely.

After seeing me,
Jolly came out of the house

and said to me,
"Come in, Sili's body is inside."

That's when I saw her body.

I told Jolly
she looked like she was sleeping.

And then Jolly said,
"Yes, Renji. What can be done?

Now I am going to get the body ready
for the next ritual."

To which I told her to carry on.

Jolly was taking care of Sili's body.

So I watched Jolly
attending the body in the coffin.

Sili's brother was there.

She coordinated with him
to get flowers and get things ready.

Jolly was managing everything.

I stood looking at all this
and still remember how disturbed I felt.

I wasn't concentrating on the dead body,

I was looking at Jolly moving around,
bringing things from the other room,

doing all the things there.

I just saw her face for a moment

and felt strange.

I mean, I felt
she actually has an internal happiness.

Somewhere, it reflected on Jolly's face.
I felt it.

I just stood there.

And a spark struck my mind.

"Sili had died, for what?
To get the man, Shaju?

For Jolly? Did Sili die for Jolly?"

That thought
started to disturb me immensely.

I wondered if perhaps
the baby might have been a hindrance.

Even if Sili alone dies,

an obligation to the child
would undoubtedly hold Jolly back.

I knew something was not right.

After Sili's death

and after her first death anniversary,

one day, Mother called me personally
and told me that

a proposal had come for her,

"Kariyachan Pappan is talking about

a marriage proposal with Shaju."

And she asked me what she should do.

But that was just a formal way of

asking for my acceptance
for their marriage.

If they both
are interested in this marriage,

I should not be an obstacle in their way.

That was my intention.

Jolly had a clear motive
behind getting married to Shaju.

After the wedding took place,

it was definite for me,
that she had achieved that goal.

I used to always tell Rojo
about a verse in the bible.

"Whatever is done in the dark
will be proclaimed on the rooftop,

whatever is being hidden,

all of this will come out into the light,"
is what I used to always tell Rojo.

We've always said

that a big criminal,
no matter how brilliant,

God will leave something out there.

So that's when, in my mind,
I made a clear decision.

I just said to Rojo that I wanted a copy
of Roy's postmortem report.

I immediately looked
at the death certificate.

I saw that Roy's time of death
was 11:20 p.m. at night.

We know that cyanide causes
an immediate halt in respiration.

I noticed that the Bengal gram and rice
he consumed were undigested.

This substance entered his body
through that food.

A conversation came back to my mind.

When I was at home after Roy's death,

that next day,
I casually spoke with Jolly.

I asked her, "What was the last thing
Roy ate yesterday?"

So she said,
"He ate rice and Bengal gram curry,

which is his favorite dish."

I asked, "When did he eat it?"

She said, "He ate around
2:30 to 3:00 p.m. in the afternoon.

Then at night, he didn't have dinner."

But while I was reading
the postmortem report,

I could vividly recall her words
echoing in my mind.

It was repeatedly coming to my mind.

"At night, he didn't have dinner."

It sent shivers down my spine

and as I revisited the report,

My God, this is…

This is not the same
as what she said actually.

I immediately realized.

This food was not eaten at lunch.

Because there was no time
for the food to digest.

Roy had the dinner.

That's when I knew,

Jolly was the person behind all of this.

I went to meet Mr. K.G. Simon
in Thodupuzha at his house.

For almost three hours,
I sat there and told him all about this.

Sequentially, I spoke about the deaths

and all my doubts
about what I saw in the postmortem.

He said, "Renji, whatever it is,
we will investigate.

It requires some effort,
but we will investigate it."

After that, we transferred the case
to the crime branch.

We gathered ten people and proceeded
as a team for the investigation.

She's endorsing herself as a teacher,
as an NIT teacher.

That's how she introduced herself.

Because of that, the investigation at NIT
was very important.

The investigation agency
came here on August 20th.

They told us to investigate if this lady

worked here on a permanent
or temporary basis.

We checked all the records from 2000.

We mentioned in writing
to the investigating agency

that there was no such lady working here.

He said, "There was no such person here."

Neither on temporary
nor on daily wage did she work here."

Jolly did have an ID card.

We have a photo of it.

That was a source of confusion
for everyone.

But Jolly had destroyed that ID card.

Even though she was not a professor,

I expected her to have a comparatively
high educational qualification.

She didn't have that either.

Jolly has certificates showing
she passed BCom and MCom

and other professional certificates.

On the basis of the certificate,
we went in search of its source and found

it's not Jolly Joseph.

It's a different individual.

So then what was the source for that?

Tom Thomas was an Administrative Assistant
of the educational department

and after his retirement, he established
an Educational Consultancy.

Photocopies of certificates
of many students

used to come to his consultancy firm.

Jolly was aware of this.

She took a few certificates from there,

and after erasing the name
and marks on a certificate,

she entered her name "Jolly Joseph"
and also changed the marks obtained

and took a photocopy of it
and kept it safely.

Everything that Jolly said was lies.

In my investigation, it was found

that Jolly Joseph had studied
only up to pre-degree,

as per the information received.

That is an important fact.

I was moving to Shimla to enroll
in a college and pursue my degree.

Since it was a long journey,
I couldn't go home often.

So my mother called me, saying that
a legal document had been delivered.

Thamarassery Police Station stated
that there is suspicion in the six deaths

that had occurred in Ponnamattam house

and it has to be reinvestigated.

The main suspect in the investigation
was Jolly, according to the petition.

It was informed to Mother
from the Thamarassery Police Station

that the petition was given
by my aunt and uncle.

Around this time, Jolly would tell me,
"We must get rid of this case.

You should ask them
to withdraw this case."

It was unbelievable for me
to think that she had committed

so many murders because I had seen
such things only in the movies,

but never in real life.

So I believed what she said.

So I called Aunt Renji and told her,

"If there is nothing solid in this case,
then we should close it

because I am facing
a lot of mental disturbances due to this."

"My mother says that
when each of those people died,

it wasn't just my mother,
but everyone else was also present there."

So tell Uncle that Mother is going to file
a defamation case against Uncle."

Then Aunt Renji replied very emotionally,

"Remo, there are a lot of unknown facts.

There is suspicion in all the deaths"

I told him,
no matter who all he asks to convince me…

I think I was very stern

when I said this to him,

"There is no way
this complaint will be withdrawn.

There should be somebody
to speak for the dead."

So one day, a small piece of news
appears in the newspaper.

One of my friends took a photo
of the news and sent it to me.

Regarding the mysterious death
of six people

in Koodathayi, Kozhikode,

on Friday, the crime branch will open
the grave and conduct a forensic analysis.

For this, the police requested permission
from the district administration.

A shocking story
is emerging out of Koodathayi.

Six members of a family named Ponnamattam

are suspected to have been murdered

between 2002 and 2016.

It appeared as breaking news on channels.

Serial murders in Koodathayi.

The police are investigating.

Fourteen years, six mysterious deaths.

At that time,
our house and property were shown

reporting about six deaths
which are under suspicion.

I had no idea what was happening around,
even many of my friends were calling me

and asking, "What was happening?"
I told them, "I didn't know anything."

So I started from Shimla to Delhi.

From Delhi, I took a flight to Kerala.

I was continuously listening to the news
and what was happening.

The police are investigating the murders
that took place in Koodathayi.

If foul play is involved,

we need to find out what happened.

We have our methods to investigate.

It is the first time in the history
of Kerala Police

that six bodies were exhumed
at the same time.

Only those who are required
to be present should enter.

We cannot be certain we'll find cyanide

from a dead body buried over six years,
with the process of exhumation…

We may find it. That's all.

The problem in this series of cases

is no doubt going to be
the chemical analysis.

Only in one case, the autopsy was done on
time, maybe within a few hours or a day,

chemical analysis was done
and cyanide was detected.

Now we have a series of five dead bodies,

where we have to prove
the presence of cyanide,

and some of these were buried
for more than a decade.

I think it is virtually like
hunting for a needle in a haystack,

trying to find

cyanide in a decomposing
or decomposed body.

When people heard about the exhumation,
they were all angry at us.

There was pressure from both sides,
Mother's family and Father's family.

They even decided to call a meeting.

I heard from someone
that they had discussed

about calling Rojo back home
to break his legs.

So some people were there.

But since they didn't know the reason,

they were angry with me and Rojo
wondering why are we doing all this.

I looked at the crowd that had gathered.

Some people were saying,
"Even after death, Mr. Thomas

is not destined to sleep in peace."

I know what I am doing
is absolutely wrong.

I know everybody will say

this is the most foolish thing.

But I told them.

"I know my parents are with me,"
I told them.

I have a mission.

That's why I didn't bother
about the surrounding crowd

or their comments.

When I reached home,
I found that the house was empty,

except for my brother.

She came home.

When the woman called Jolly
returned home, I observed

that she looked very tired,

panic-stricken,
and her inner mind was full of fear.

I said that I need to speak to Jolly alone
and I went with her to a room.

After entering the room,
I asked her, "What's going on?"

I told her, "The news channels are all

pointing their fingers in your direction.

Have there been any mistakes on your part?

I'm asking you strongly,
are you involved in these murders?"

She cried and replied in a panicked voice

that she did not do anything wrong
and that she was not involved at all.

I said, "I want to know the truth,
tell me what happened!

You have definitely done something
and you must tell me everything."

By that time,

in a very feeble voice, she admitted
she had committed some mistakes.

So I asked her again,
"Did you commit these murders?

Tell me everything!"

I was at a relative's place in Kozhikode
when Remo had called.

I asked, "What happened, son?
What happened there?"

"This lady

killed everyone," he said.

Then I asked, "How do you know?

Who told you this?"

He said, "She told me.

Aunt, as soon as possible,

you should call the police
and get her arrested."

I quickly realized

that the rest of the cyanide
is still in that house.

And a small bit is enough
for two children.

I told him to grab a piece of cloth
or bed sheet and stuff it in his mouth

to avoid falling asleep.

"Don't eat anything.

Don't drink water or anything from there."

I kept repeating all this to him.

Then suddenly,
I could hear the door knocking.

Remo opened the door
and I could hear him talking.

I could hear him asking, "Why are you
standing here? What do you want to hear?"

On the other side of the phone, I realized

that Jolly was standing
in front of Remo's door.

I immediately said I would call him later
and I disconnected the call.

I was waiting for the sun to rise

so that I could get the kids out of there.

And in the morning, I called the SP.

This morning, Jolly Joseph was arrested
and taken to police custody

at her home in Koodathayi.

She will be formally charged
with killing her husband, Roy.

But she is under suspicion for the five
other deaths in question as well.

I was watching all these news clippings,

as Jolly is led out of the house
and into a police jeep.

Remo was standing on the porch.

But I didn't see my younger nephew.

So I was searching for any sign of him
in the news clippings.

As soon as we arrived,

I went and searched for the younger one.

He was still sleeping.

The vibe of the house seemed disturbed
from a few days back.

Many dishes were lying
in the washbasin unwashed.

There was leftover food
from the past two or three days.

I just closed the door and went outside.

By then, there were
a lot of neighbors at home.

Some of them tried to speak to me.

A bunch of the media people had packed in
right in front of the gate.

I realized
that I wouldn't be able to get out.

But that day, there was surprisingly

heavy rain and thunderstorm
around 3:30 to 4:00 p.m.

The rainfall was so heavy that
all the media people had to move away.

They couldn't stand there.

I decided to take the kids and go.

I told them,
"Go and get whatever you can take

and whatever is important to you."

Then I locked the house and we left.

That night, on our way,
Remo was showing me news clippings.

Shaju was defending Jolly.

They started responding
to various news channels saying,

"It's just a property case."
I was listening to all of this.

I told Remo,
"Don't bother about the comments.

Don't pay attention to it."

We reached Vyttila at 5:00 p.m.

We got out of the taxi
and opened the gate.

As soon as we crossed the gate…

I just looked up and told
my parents and my elder brother,

"I did what I could do."

Because these souls were with me.

Definitely, that's what I believe.

They must have wanted me
to accomplish this mission

and that's why it worked.

That's what I think.

For power, she killed her mother-in-law.

For property,
she killed her father-in-law.

For questioning her friendships,
she killed her husband.

For raising suspicions,
she killed her uncle, Mathew.

For having Shaju as her husband,
she killed his wife, Sili,

and their child, Alphine.

Was Jolly the only mastermind
behind all these murders?

The court has remanded Jolly
in police custody for six days,

until the 16th of this month.

During that time,
they will be questioning her,

and perhaps the biggest
unanswered question is,

"Did Jolly act alone?"

Jolly said that

she had read in the newspaper
that cyanide is very poisonous.

This poison, known as cyanide,

was easily accessible to those
who worked as goldsmiths.

M.S. Mathew was working

as a salesman in a jewelry shop.

For this very reason,
she had a friendship with Mathew.

Jolly asked him for some cyanide,

lying that she wanted
to kill a stray dog that came there.

Praji Kumar is a goldsmith
who worked with M.S. Mathew,

and they were close friends.

And it was Praji Kumar
who gave him the cyanide.

Were you aware of what she was doing?

How many times did you
give cyanide to her?

Mathew, are you trapped
in this case by someone?

Mathew had the opportunity to explain
his side of the story to the court.

I mean, Mathew had the chance
to inform the court that he is innocent,

that the case is bogus,

and that he had nothing to do
with the six murders.

And when asked what he wanted to say,

Mathew didn't deny anything.

With Jolly and her accomplices
in the police custody,

K.G. Simon's case is complicated
by the lack of physical evidence.

No doubt finding the cyanide used
in these murders would make that case

much stronger.

The evidence-gathering process
was challenging.

Wherever Jolly was taken,
there was a lot of commotion.

Haven't you seen
enough photos of me already?

Yes, we have seen you a lot already.

Then we took Jolly Joseph
to the Ponnamattam house.

We felt as though the evidence
fell right into our hands.

In connection with the Koodathayi
serial murder case evidence hunting,

the police found powder suspected
to be cyanide from Ponnamattam house.

The investigating team claims
that Jolly herself handed it over to them.

With much respect to the honorable court
and with respect to the prosecution,

as a defense lawyer, after so many years,

even saying that they found this substance
in that house is beyond my imagination.

To prove the allegations against Jolly,

prosecution itself fabricated
the potassium cyanide,

the bottle that contained it,
the place where it was hidden,

I believe all these were framed
for the purpose of this case.

Whenever I spoke to police officers,

they did not give me clear-cut answers,

which made me feel

that the police investigation
was not complete.

There could have been holes
in the police narrative,

which was never questioned.

These questions would actually
stare back at you,

the loopholes in the case.

There are six cases against Jolly
with 263 witnesses.

If we conduct a trial
on each of these cases as they should be,

each trial will take a year.

So for six cases to be concluded,
it will take six years.

With all the available legal provisions,

I will prove her innocence.

I have 100% faith that Jolly will succeed.

She will not be convicted
in any point of time.

The case is now in the honorable court.

After retirement, many people
requested that I take up other jobs,

but I am refraining from them because

I need to look after my family
and be with them.

I'm investigating this case
just out of my desire.

When she was arrested
and a case was brought against her…

Some people couldn't speak to me.
Others did call me to apologize.

Most of the other relatives
were just dumbstruck.

When I look back…

It's fate. What else could it be?

Our bad fate.

We intend to renovate
the Ponnamattam house,

make it once again our ancestral home,

and continue to live there.
That's our desire.

By doing so, let the souls
of my mother and father get some solace.

Because that house
was their greatest desire.

Do you think your mother alone is guilty?

I can't say anything about that.
We'll know about the ultimate truth soon.

We believe in that ultimate truth.

I should be strong now
because I have a younger brother.

I have to take care of him.

So I will move on
and I will overcome this. That's all.

We should always keep this in mind.

Whether it takes 17 or 25 years,
truth will triumph.

Many people have asked this question.

"You all are such educated people.
How could you not find out about Jolly?"

Or, "Why didn't you find out
about Jolly's educational qualifications?"

And to those who asked me,
I asked them in return,

"When your children got married,
how many of you

have seen your daughter-in-law's
education certificates or portfolios?"

We trusted. Family means trust.

She knew no one would doubt her.

There is a phrase I keep hearing.

"A wolf in sheep's clothing."

If a wolf disguises himself as a sheep,
no one will know it's a wolf.

Maybe that's the reason why,
in Jolly's case,

nobody was able to see her true colors.

In retrospect…

What was Jolly trying to gain
through all this?

Money? Power? Property?

I wanted to hear the answers
from Jolly herself.

So I was waiting upstairs.

The police officers came back
along with Jolly.

When she saw me, there wasn't
any change in her facial expressions.

To be frank, I didn't have
any particular feeling for this woman.

I told her, "Look, I have come here

to talk about your frequent calls to Remo.

But he was very upset and I overheard him
speaking in a very aggressive manner.

You called him up and said,
'Let me see how they punish me.

Or wait and watch,
I am going to get out of here.

You come and show me the proof.'

If you say these to him,

it will enrage him.

So never do this."

I told her, "Remo's biggest dilemma
is that you still haven't shown

any remorse for what you have done.

You still haven't realized the seriousness
or depth of what you have done.

The children haven't gotten
what they wanted from their mother,

but they are going through
so much right now.

I don't want them
to go through this anymore

and that's why I am here.

I accept the fact that you are the one

who gave birth to them. I won't deny that.

I accept you as their mother,
but in this present situation,

they have suffered a lot.

I won't let them suffer anymore."

That's exactly how I said it,
"As long as I am alive, I won't allow it.

Now, they are my children.

I am going to raise them as my children."

What my aunt has done can't be explained
in just one word or sentence.

Because she cares for us
beyond our imagination.

Now, we really have a family.

This is not a new family.

We are all of the same blood.

Today, many people
who were closest to us aren't alive.

But still,
all of their blessings are with us.

Their souls are present amongst us.

So we don't think of the past
and have regrets.

We move on. We move on with strength.

This person who enjoyed
a great position in our house,

someone who had a lot of servants,
who lived a life with utmost pride,

came in surrounded
by a team of ten police officers.

When I saw her coming with them, I felt…

I felt very bad witnessing the situation
that Jolly had landed herself into.

I asked, "How do you feel
about what you have done?"

"It just happened."

That's the way she said it,
"It just happened."

I said, "You purposely killed six people.

You didn't even spare a little child.

And you said, this just happened?"

"That's because I have a criminal mind,
I can hide things."

That's what she replied.

After all that finished, she said to me,

"It is said in the Bible,

no matter how many sins we commit,
God will forgive us.

He will forgive me as well."

I said, "Yes, God may forgive.
May God forgive everyone!"