Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated:
1
00:00:04,917 --> 00:00:08,269
[audio logo]
2
00:00:08,399 --> 00:00:11,881
[theme music]
3
00:00:20,585 --> 00:00:23,023
>> Today on "Cosmic Disclosure,"
we are with Richard Doty,
4
00:00:23,153 --> 00:00:25,677
a retired special agent who
served in the Air Force Office
5
00:00:25,808 --> 00:00:27,114
of Special Investigations.
6
00:00:27,244 --> 00:00:29,072
Richard was intimately
involved with UFO,
7
00:00:29,203 --> 00:00:30,856
ET-related intelligence.
8
00:00:30,987 --> 00:00:34,338
Today we're talking about a UFO
and a nuclear weapons incident.
9
00:00:34,469 --> 00:00:36,036
Richard, welcome to the show.
10
00:00:36,166 --> 00:00:36,862
>> Thank you, Emery.
11
00:00:36,993 --> 00:00:37,776
Good to be here.
12
00:00:37,907 --> 00:00:39,300
>> What is Coyote Canyon?
13
00:00:39,430 --> 00:00:42,172
And what actually happened
in September of 1980?
14
00:00:42,303 --> 00:00:46,481
>> Well, Coyote Canyon is a area
on the eastern side of Kirtland
15
00:00:46,611 --> 00:00:48,222
Air Force Base.
16
00:00:48,352 --> 00:00:53,705
It houses a test range, both
classified and unclassified
17
00:00:53,836 --> 00:00:56,882
test range, and also,
during that time period,
18
00:00:57,013 --> 00:00:58,841
housed the largest
nuclear weapons
19
00:00:58,971 --> 00:01:00,538
storage area in the world.
20
00:01:00,669 --> 00:01:02,801
It was called Manzano Base.
21
00:01:02,932 --> 00:01:08,546
Back in the '50s and early
'60s, the United States military
22
00:01:08,677 --> 00:01:12,376
and the Atomic Energy
Commission built structures
23
00:01:12,507 --> 00:01:15,945
inside that mountain
to manufacture
24
00:01:16,076 --> 00:01:19,340
nuclear weapons, both the
fission weapon and the fusion
25
00:01:19,470 --> 00:01:20,950
weapons.
26
00:01:21,081 --> 00:01:23,953
All fission and fusion weapons
during that time period,
27
00:01:24,084 --> 00:01:27,957
actually from the late '40s
all the way up to the '70s,
28
00:01:28,088 --> 00:01:30,873
were manufactured
inside Manzano Base,
29
00:01:31,003 --> 00:01:32,962
and that's where
they housed them
30
00:01:33,093 --> 00:01:35,486
after they were put together.
31
00:01:35,617 --> 00:01:39,925
Before the manufacturing process
moved to Pantex in Texas,
32
00:01:40,056 --> 00:01:41,623
everything was done at Manzano.
33
00:01:41,753 --> 00:01:45,844
But in 1980, Coyote Canyon
was a classified testing area.
34
00:01:45,975 --> 00:01:49,065
And, of course, Manzano Base
was located in that area.
35
00:01:49,196 --> 00:01:50,327
>> Right, exactly.
36
00:01:50,458 --> 00:01:51,937
Which brings us to
the next question,
37
00:01:52,068 --> 00:01:55,463
who was involved of this
investigation of this event?
38
00:01:55,593 --> 00:01:59,554
>> How it started was security
police guarded Manzano Base.
39
00:01:59,684 --> 00:02:02,122
They had perimeter
guards all over the base.
40
00:02:02,252 --> 00:02:05,734
I think each shift had
something like 70 to 80 security
41
00:02:05,864 --> 00:02:08,171
policemen guarding
inside Manzano.
42
00:02:08,302 --> 00:02:11,479
Plus, there's alarm structures
all over Manzano Base.
43
00:02:11,609 --> 00:02:14,830
>> Pressure sensors, six
different fences with very high
44
00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:18,399
voltage, and some
amazingly mean K-9 units.
45
00:02:18,529 --> 00:02:20,140
>> Exactly.
46
00:02:20,270 --> 00:02:22,838
And the K-9s patrolled within
a certain area of the fence.
47
00:02:22,968 --> 00:02:27,799
And as you said, the entire
second layer of the fence
48
00:02:27,930 --> 00:02:29,192
was electrified.
49
00:02:29,323 --> 00:02:30,715
But getting back to
the original story,
50
00:02:30,846 --> 00:02:33,109
a security police were
on duty one night,
51
00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:35,633
and he saw this light
moving into the Canyon.
52
00:02:35,764 --> 00:02:38,201
And it kept moving
around inside the Canyon
53
00:02:38,332 --> 00:02:39,898
area, which would have
been east of them,
54
00:02:40,029 --> 00:02:41,900
the east side of Manzano.
55
00:02:42,031 --> 00:02:44,599
When the security policeman
observed this light
56
00:02:44,729 --> 00:02:47,384
moving in and out
of the Canyon area,
57
00:02:47,515 --> 00:02:50,082
he immediately notified
their supervisor,
58
00:02:50,213 --> 00:02:53,085
who notified central
security control.
59
00:02:53,216 --> 00:02:55,958
Central security control
controlled the security police
60
00:02:56,088 --> 00:02:57,481
force.
61
00:02:57,612 --> 00:03:01,355
The supervisor asked CSC
to contact Sandia National
62
00:03:01,485 --> 00:03:06,142
Laboratories, because Sandia
had some bunkers in that area,
63
00:03:06,273 --> 00:03:08,188
which would have
been outside Manzano,
64
00:03:08,318 --> 00:03:12,844
and asked Sandia's
control center to contact
65
00:03:12,975 --> 00:03:16,892
their security forces,
which patrols that area,
66
00:03:17,022 --> 00:03:19,460
and determine whether they saw
what the security police were
67
00:03:19,590 --> 00:03:21,244
seeing.
68
00:03:21,375 --> 00:03:24,204
Sandia National Laboratories
was on Kirtland Air Force Base.
69
00:03:24,334 --> 00:03:28,556
Back in the '80s, they had,
I think, 80 buildings all
70
00:03:28,686 --> 00:03:30,949
over the eastern
side of the base,
71
00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:33,952
including in Coyote Canyon.
72
00:03:34,083 --> 00:03:38,914
They had classified storage
areas and plus classified
73
00:03:39,044 --> 00:03:40,089
testing areas.
74
00:03:40,220 --> 00:03:42,439
And what Sandia did--
75
00:03:42,570 --> 00:03:46,835
a side note-- is they
tested nuclear weapons
76
00:03:46,965 --> 00:03:49,620
out there, non-nuclear
testing of nuclear weapons,
77
00:03:49,751 --> 00:03:53,363
dropping them from a distance,
testing the outer structures
78
00:03:53,494 --> 00:03:55,713
of them, testing the
components, whether they
79
00:03:55,844 --> 00:03:58,716
would break if they were
dropped from some distance.
80
00:03:58,847 --> 00:04:02,546
So that testing was done
out in Coyote Canyon,
81
00:04:02,677 --> 00:04:05,549
and that's why it was called
a classified testing area.
82
00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:08,944
And not only did
Sandia test out there,
83
00:04:09,074 --> 00:04:11,816
but Los Alamos also
had a testing site
84
00:04:11,947 --> 00:04:15,646
out there along with the Air
Force weapons laboratory, which
85
00:04:15,777 --> 00:04:17,909
at that time was on Kirtland.
86
00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:21,217
And finally, the
National Security Agency
87
00:04:21,348 --> 00:04:23,741
had a highly
classified location,
88
00:04:23,872 --> 00:04:25,700
which was built into
a mountain out there.
89
00:04:25,830 --> 00:04:27,397
And this isn't
classified anymore.
90
00:04:27,528 --> 00:04:30,531
But they were doing laser
testing inside this mountain.
91
00:04:30,661 --> 00:04:32,054
The mountain, I
think, was something
92
00:04:32,184 --> 00:04:34,709
like a half a mile long inside.
93
00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:37,538
I believe you might
know more about that.
94
00:04:37,668 --> 00:04:40,889
Anyways, the security
policemen continued watching
95
00:04:41,019 --> 00:04:43,239
this light moving in and out.
96
00:04:43,370 --> 00:04:47,635
Sandia security control told
central security control
97
00:04:47,765 --> 00:04:49,637
that they had a security
guard in the area,
98
00:04:49,767 --> 00:04:51,203
and he was going to
check things out.
99
00:04:51,334 --> 00:04:53,902
So we jumped to
the security guard.
100
00:04:54,032 --> 00:04:57,514
Sandia National security have
their own security force.
101
00:04:57,645 --> 00:05:03,781
And it's a large force, almost
exclusively retired military,
102
00:05:03,912 --> 00:05:06,480
either retired
military policemen,
103
00:05:06,610 --> 00:05:10,484
retired military infantry
people, or even special forces,
104
00:05:10,614 --> 00:05:12,094
almost all of them.
105
00:05:12,224 --> 00:05:14,923
>> And different specialties
training as well,
106
00:05:15,053 --> 00:05:16,707
compared to the regular MP, SP.
107
00:05:16,838 --> 00:05:17,752
>> Exactly.
108
00:05:17,882 --> 00:05:20,015
And they were highly trained.
109
00:05:20,145 --> 00:05:22,365
They had to go through
an extensive program.
110
00:05:22,496 --> 00:05:24,933
They weren't just a security
guard you hire off the street.
111
00:05:25,063 --> 00:05:27,196
They had to go through--
because they were controlling
112
00:05:27,327 --> 00:05:30,547
and guarding restricted
data areas, which
113
00:05:30,678 --> 00:05:31,983
meant nuclear materials.
114
00:05:32,114 --> 00:05:34,508
Maybe not necessarily
nuclear weapons,
115
00:05:34,638 --> 00:05:38,425
but materials that went
inside the nuclear weapons.
116
00:05:38,555 --> 00:05:41,471
They had nuclear pit
storage areas out there.
117
00:05:41,602 --> 00:05:45,649
They had nuclear component areas
that were stored out there.
118
00:05:45,780 --> 00:05:49,131
So this particular bunker
that this incident happened in
119
00:05:49,261 --> 00:05:52,700
had some nuclear material in it.
120
00:05:52,830 --> 00:05:56,704
Plus, it was an
experimental bunker.
121
00:05:56,834 --> 00:06:00,490
The way the bunkers
before was built,
122
00:06:00,621 --> 00:06:04,973
it's a huge concrete bunker,
blast doors on the front.
123
00:06:05,103 --> 00:06:07,323
And they would store the
nuclear weapons inside.
124
00:06:07,454 --> 00:06:10,544
This particular bunker, the
way they did it was they
125
00:06:10,674 --> 00:06:12,894
had a platform inside
with an elevator
126
00:06:13,024 --> 00:06:14,548
that went down 60 feet.
127
00:06:14,678 --> 00:06:18,073
So they'd put the nuclear
weapon on this platform
128
00:06:18,203 --> 00:06:21,772
and then dropped it down
60 feet under this bunker.
129
00:06:21,903 --> 00:06:25,820
So if a terrorist was to
penetrate this bunker,
130
00:06:25,950 --> 00:06:27,082
nuclear weapon wasn't there.
131
00:06:27,212 --> 00:06:29,345
It was 60 feet underground.
132
00:06:29,476 --> 00:06:32,348
So at this particular
time, 1980,
133
00:06:32,479 --> 00:06:36,265
they had, nuclear material
stored in that bunker.
134
00:06:36,396 --> 00:06:38,398
So it was alarmed.
135
00:06:38,528 --> 00:06:42,967
As this one Sandia security
guard was patrolling out there,
136
00:06:43,098 --> 00:06:44,839
he saw this light too.
137
00:06:44,969 --> 00:06:47,755
And I interviewed him
extensively later.
138
00:06:47,885 --> 00:06:50,801
And he saw this light,
and he watched it.
139
00:06:50,932 --> 00:06:52,934
And he thought, well, it
has to be a helicopter.
140
00:06:53,064 --> 00:06:56,372
Because the 1550th air
crew test and training
141
00:06:56,503 --> 00:06:58,679
wing, which was
an Air Force unit,
142
00:06:58,809 --> 00:07:00,507
also conducted
training out there
143
00:07:00,637 --> 00:07:02,770
of different types
of helicopters,
144
00:07:02,900 --> 00:07:08,166
Jolly Green Giant helicopters,
HH-53 helicopters, H-1s.
145
00:07:08,297 --> 00:07:10,168
But he wasn't notified
that there was going
146
00:07:10,299 --> 00:07:11,605
to be any testing out there.
147
00:07:11,735 --> 00:07:13,781
And this was late at night.
148
00:07:13,911 --> 00:07:15,826
So he watched this
light from a distance.
149
00:07:15,957 --> 00:07:17,480
And he hadn't approached
the bunker yet.
150
00:07:17,611 --> 00:07:19,221
He was some distance
from the bunker.
151
00:07:19,351 --> 00:07:21,789
He was patrolling
other areas out there.
152
00:07:21,919 --> 00:07:24,052
Now, all of a sudden
he sees this light.
153
00:07:24,182 --> 00:07:26,707
And as it got
lower and lower, he
154
00:07:26,837 --> 00:07:30,101
realized there was a
shape to the light.
155
00:07:30,232 --> 00:07:33,104
And it was a flying
saucer, as he described
156
00:07:33,235 --> 00:07:36,934
it, a round-shaped disk.
157
00:07:37,065 --> 00:07:40,068
And it landed directly in
front of this alarm area.
158
00:07:40,198 --> 00:07:42,984
>> Why would a extraterrestrial
be interested in any nuclear
159
00:07:43,114 --> 00:07:46,378
or biostorage units?
160
00:07:46,509 --> 00:07:49,599
>> Well, probably
for a lot of reasons.
161
00:07:49,730 --> 00:07:51,035
So the security
guard approached.
162
00:07:51,166 --> 00:07:51,949
He drove up.
163
00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:53,037
He's in a pickup truck.
164
00:07:53,168 --> 00:07:55,475
He drives up and parks.
165
00:07:55,605 --> 00:07:57,607
Now, a little background
on the security guard--
166
00:07:57,738 --> 00:08:00,392
he was retired from
the United States Army.
167
00:08:00,523 --> 00:08:01,916
He was a Vietnam veteran.
168
00:08:02,046 --> 00:08:02,873
This is 1980.
169
00:08:03,004 --> 00:08:04,701
So he had been in Vietnam.
170
00:08:04,832 --> 00:08:07,487
He was a door gunner
on a helicopter,
171
00:08:07,617 --> 00:08:12,492
and then he was also a ground
soldier, just infantry.
172
00:08:12,622 --> 00:08:18,193
And then he got out and been
with Sandia for 10 or 11 years.
173
00:08:18,323 --> 00:08:19,934
>> So he knew
aircraft very well.
174
00:08:20,064 --> 00:08:22,371
>> He knew aircraft very well
and he knew helicopters very
175
00:08:22,502 --> 00:08:24,678
well because he flew
in them in Vietnam.
176
00:08:24,808 --> 00:08:28,899
So he saw this, and he
realized it's not a helicopter.
177
00:08:29,030 --> 00:08:32,294
He thought, well, maybe
it's an experimental craft
178
00:08:32,424 --> 00:08:36,646
that somebody, somebody
that's using this test range
179
00:08:36,777 --> 00:08:40,041
is flying, and maybe
it accidentally landed.
180
00:08:40,171 --> 00:08:41,782
Maybe it was trouble.
181
00:08:41,912 --> 00:08:43,697
Maybe it was supposed to land
in another area, test range.
182
00:08:43,827 --> 00:08:45,481
Because remember, there's
thousands of acres
183
00:08:45,612 --> 00:08:46,743
of the test range out there.
184
00:08:46,874 --> 00:08:47,527
It isn't that--
185
00:08:47,657 --> 00:08:48,397
>> It's enormous.
186
00:08:48,528 --> 00:08:49,572
>> Yeah.
187
00:08:49,703 --> 00:08:51,313
So he's trying to
call on a radio,
188
00:08:51,443 --> 00:08:52,836
and his radio doesn't work.
189
00:08:52,967 --> 00:08:54,577
There's nothing but static jam.
190
00:08:54,708 --> 00:08:56,579
And then, all of a
sudden, the engine
191
00:08:56,710 --> 00:08:59,234
shuts off on his pickup truck.
192
00:08:59,364 --> 00:09:03,238
So then he had a
shotgun and a handgun.
193
00:09:03,368 --> 00:09:07,938
So he got his shotgun out,
and he got out of his vehicle.
194
00:09:08,069 --> 00:09:09,897
And he just watched.
195
00:09:10,027 --> 00:09:12,987
He didn't know what this
thing was going to do.
196
00:09:13,117 --> 00:09:15,250
He still thought, all the
time during this time period,
197
00:09:15,380 --> 00:09:17,905
he still thought it was
some experimental craft.
198
00:09:18,035 --> 00:09:20,429
>> Was it Sandia security or
Kirtland Air Force security?
199
00:09:20,560 --> 00:09:21,952
>> This is Sandia security.
200
00:09:22,083 --> 00:09:23,084
>> And he couldn't do
anything because he had no
201
00:09:23,214 --> 00:09:24,259
communication.
202
00:09:24,389 --> 00:09:26,087
>> Right.
203
00:09:26,217 --> 00:09:29,438
He had no communications, no way
of notifying his command center
204
00:09:29,569 --> 00:09:30,744
or anyone else.
205
00:09:30,874 --> 00:09:31,527
>> Wow.
206
00:09:31,658 --> 00:09:32,789
>> He used tactics.
207
00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:34,574
He moved away from
the pickup truck.
208
00:09:34,704 --> 00:09:38,403
He thought, well, OK, if
this isn't an Air Force test
209
00:09:38,534 --> 00:09:42,886
vehicle, if it's an
extraterrestrial or maybe
210
00:09:43,017 --> 00:09:46,803
a Soviet, they're going to try
to destroy my vehicle first.
211
00:09:46,934 --> 00:09:49,284
So he moves away from
that, and there's
212
00:09:49,414 --> 00:09:53,593
another utility building
some distance away from him
213
00:09:53,723 --> 00:09:55,290
that housed--
214
00:09:55,420 --> 00:09:58,554
it was a water pump and a
building, a concrete building.
215
00:09:58,685 --> 00:10:00,991
So he ran over to
that and stood there.
216
00:10:01,122 --> 00:10:05,648
And all of a sudden, the
bottom of this flying saucer
217
00:10:05,779 --> 00:10:07,041
opened up.
218
00:10:07,171 --> 00:10:11,393
He said, it was just
like an egg that opened,
219
00:10:11,523 --> 00:10:12,873
and the stairs came down.
220
00:10:13,003 --> 00:10:16,877
And then, these two
entities came down.
221
00:10:17,007 --> 00:10:19,096
He said, they floated.
222
00:10:19,227 --> 00:10:21,490
They didn't walk.
223
00:10:21,621 --> 00:10:25,799
And then he realized,
this is not conventional,
224
00:10:25,929 --> 00:10:27,452
and this is not terrestrial.
225
00:10:27,583 --> 00:10:28,932
It's got to be extraterrestrial.
226
00:10:29,063 --> 00:10:32,196
Because he's looking
at these two entities
227
00:10:32,327 --> 00:10:33,720
that are very small.
228
00:10:33,850 --> 00:10:37,854
He'd say, probably 4
foot, with huge heads.
229
00:10:37,985 --> 00:10:40,248
Or he thought, first,
they were heads,
230
00:10:40,378 --> 00:10:42,467
but as they started
getting closer to him,
231
00:10:42,598 --> 00:10:44,600
he realized they were helmets.
232
00:10:44,731 --> 00:10:48,125
And they had a breathing
apparatus that ran around
233
00:10:48,256 --> 00:10:50,693
to tanks on its back.
234
00:10:50,824 --> 00:10:53,130
They had these strange-looking
hands, either that,
235
00:10:53,261 --> 00:10:55,437
or he thought maybe
they were gloves
236
00:10:55,567 --> 00:10:58,570
that rotated 360 degrees.
237
00:10:58,701 --> 00:11:00,094
>> Wow.
238
00:11:00,224 --> 00:11:02,400
>> And then he thought,
as they moved towards him,
239
00:11:02,531 --> 00:11:04,576
his first thought
was they were robots.
240
00:11:04,707 --> 00:11:06,143
>> Right.
241
00:11:06,274 --> 00:11:09,451
>> He said, the first thing
I thought of, was "Lost
242
00:11:09,581 --> 00:11:13,020
in Space," that robot in "Lost
in Space," where they could--
243
00:11:13,150 --> 00:11:15,370
he thought, well--
then, he started
244
00:11:15,500 --> 00:11:16,980
thinking, OK, if
they're robots, maybe
245
00:11:17,111 --> 00:11:18,503
it is an Air Force project.
246
00:11:18,634 --> 00:11:21,681
And they're using
robots as pilots.
247
00:11:21,811 --> 00:11:24,422
>> Well, he must have been
very close to get such detailed
248
00:11:24,553 --> 00:11:25,815
information by looking.
249
00:11:25,946 --> 00:11:26,773
I mean, was he--
250
00:11:26,903 --> 00:11:28,122
>> He was about 200 feet.
251
00:11:28,252 --> 00:11:29,210
>> 200 feet, OK.
252
00:11:29,340 --> 00:11:30,690
That's close.
253
00:11:30,820 --> 00:11:32,692
>> But the two entities
were moving towards him.
254
00:11:32,822 --> 00:11:33,910
They knew he was there.
255
00:11:34,041 --> 00:11:35,607
I mean, even though
he was hiding,
256
00:11:35,738 --> 00:11:37,784
they knew he was there
somehow because they
257
00:11:37,914 --> 00:11:39,220
kept moving towards him.
258
00:11:39,350 --> 00:11:44,138
So he realized, well, I
have to defend myself.
259
00:11:44,268 --> 00:11:45,095
I have to defend what--
260
00:11:45,226 --> 00:11:47,010
I have to do my job.
261
00:11:47,141 --> 00:11:49,404
So he chambered a
round in his shotgun,
262
00:11:49,534 --> 00:11:54,235
and it was an 870 Remington,
a 12-gauge shotgun.
263
00:11:54,365 --> 00:11:57,891
And he had four
slugs in the shotgun.
264
00:11:58,021 --> 00:11:59,936
So he pointed it at
the two entities,
265
00:12:00,067 --> 00:12:04,071
and he yelled, stop,
halt. I'm security.
266
00:12:04,201 --> 00:12:04,854
They did.
267
00:12:04,985 --> 00:12:06,377
They stopped.
268
00:12:06,508 --> 00:12:09,554
And they seemed more
concerned with that pickup.
269
00:12:09,685 --> 00:12:11,208
One of them, then--
270
00:12:11,339 --> 00:12:12,601
he said, floating.
271
00:12:12,732 --> 00:12:16,083
They didn't walk-- over
towards his pickup.
272
00:12:16,213 --> 00:12:18,999
But they didn't approach
him any farther.
273
00:12:19,129 --> 00:12:21,828
>> Were they far off the ground
or just even with the ground
274
00:12:21,958 --> 00:12:23,873
almost with their feet?
275
00:12:24,004 --> 00:12:28,095
You said, they levitated
towards his vehicle.
276
00:12:28,225 --> 00:12:29,879
>> He said floated.
277
00:12:30,010 --> 00:12:32,273
And they were maybe a foot off
the ground, I think, he said.
278
00:12:32,403 --> 00:12:36,625
Anyways, he didn't feel a threat
any longer because the entity
279
00:12:36,756 --> 00:12:38,453
wasn't moving towards him.
280
00:12:38,583 --> 00:12:40,237
He was concerned that
what they were going
281
00:12:40,368 --> 00:12:41,935
to do to the pickup truck.
282
00:12:42,065 --> 00:12:44,067
Although, it's the Sandia
National Laboratories pickup.
283
00:12:44,198 --> 00:12:45,634
He just thought,
well, what are they
284
00:12:45,765 --> 00:12:47,070
going to do with this pickup?
285
00:12:47,201 --> 00:12:49,464
But the other end, you
went over, and kind of
286
00:12:49,594 --> 00:12:50,944
moved around it.
287
00:12:51,074 --> 00:12:53,294
He couldn't really see
everything it was doing.
288
00:12:53,424 --> 00:12:57,254
But the other one kept
watching its partner.
289
00:12:57,385 --> 00:13:00,518
And eventually, the
other one turned around.
290
00:13:00,649 --> 00:13:02,390
And he turned around--
291
00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:04,348
and this is why
the security guard
292
00:13:04,479 --> 00:13:06,220
kept thinking it was a robot.
293
00:13:06,350 --> 00:13:08,309
It turned around
mechanically, not
294
00:13:08,439 --> 00:13:12,748
like a human would do, and
moved back towards the craft.
295
00:13:12,879 --> 00:13:18,101
But as it got towards the craft,
it veered more to the right
296
00:13:18,232 --> 00:13:20,538
and went right to the
front of the bunker.
297
00:13:20,669 --> 00:13:23,933
Now, he realized, I
have to do something
298
00:13:24,064 --> 00:13:28,764
because I'm responsible
for protecting this,
299
00:13:28,895 --> 00:13:30,984
so I got to do something.
300
00:13:31,114 --> 00:13:32,681
Even though I can't
radio anybody,
301
00:13:32,812 --> 00:13:34,117
I can't radio a supervisor.
302
00:13:34,248 --> 00:13:36,903
I can't radio for assistance.
303
00:13:37,033 --> 00:13:40,602
And he kept reiterating to
me during the interviews,
304
00:13:40,732 --> 00:13:41,864
you know, I've been in Vietnam.
305
00:13:41,995 --> 00:13:43,387
I've been in tight situations.
306
00:13:43,518 --> 00:13:44,649
I've been in combat.
307
00:13:44,780 --> 00:13:47,261
This is entirely
different, he said.
308
00:13:47,391 --> 00:13:50,786
This is something that, I'm
dealing with unknowns here.
309
00:13:50,917 --> 00:13:53,180
In Vietnam, I was dealing
with enemy soldiers.
310
00:13:53,310 --> 00:13:55,008
Here, I don't know
what these things are.
311
00:13:55,138 --> 00:13:57,314
If they're robots,
can I harm him?
312
00:13:57,445 --> 00:13:59,012
Can I shoot him?
313
00:13:59,142 --> 00:14:03,233
But the next thing he know,
the bunker doors are open.
314
00:14:03,364 --> 00:14:06,236
And he said, it
happened in a flash.
315
00:14:06,367 --> 00:14:08,238
He said, normally,
it would take--
316
00:14:08,369 --> 00:14:10,893
actually, these bunkers, it
would take a time period.
317
00:14:11,024 --> 00:14:14,070
It can go from seven
minutes up to 15 minutes.
318
00:14:14,201 --> 00:14:15,376
>> That's right.
319
00:14:15,506 --> 00:14:17,117
>> Once you start
to open these doors.
320
00:14:17,247 --> 00:14:20,381
And so, he knew this, and
he knew the procedures.
321
00:14:20,511 --> 00:14:22,383
But all of a sudden,
this door opened,
322
00:14:22,513 --> 00:14:26,256
the two heavy
metal doors opened.
323
00:14:26,387 --> 00:14:28,476
And so, then he started moving.
324
00:14:28,606 --> 00:14:30,130
He moved around
his pickup truck.
325
00:14:30,260 --> 00:14:31,958
He lost track of
the second entity.
326
00:14:32,088 --> 00:14:33,263
He didn't know where it was.
327
00:14:33,394 --> 00:14:34,961
But it wasn't at the
pickup because he
328
00:14:35,091 --> 00:14:38,312
moved around the pickup, and
he moved towards the bunker.
329
00:14:38,442 --> 00:14:42,620
As he moved towards the
bunker, he started shaking.
330
00:14:42,751 --> 00:14:46,668
His body started shaking
as if his legs weighed
331
00:14:46,798 --> 00:14:48,583
a thousand pounds each.
332
00:14:48,713 --> 00:14:49,889
He dropped the shotgun.
333
00:14:50,019 --> 00:14:51,412
He couldn't hold it.
334
00:14:51,542 --> 00:14:53,936
He realized, now,
I'm in trouble.
335
00:14:54,067 --> 00:14:55,503
I don't know what
they're doing to me.
336
00:14:55,633 --> 00:14:56,808
Now, I'm in trouble.
337
00:14:56,939 --> 00:14:58,549
So he was just frozen there.
338
00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:00,900
And he watched them
go in, both of them,
339
00:15:01,030 --> 00:15:02,945
but he couldn't do anything.
340
00:15:03,076 --> 00:15:05,208
And so, they were
only in there for,
341
00:15:05,339 --> 00:15:07,776
he said, just maybe
10 or 15 seconds.
342
00:15:07,907 --> 00:15:09,343
And they came out.
343
00:15:09,473 --> 00:15:11,998
And when they came out, they
moved to the spaceship--
344
00:15:12,128 --> 00:15:13,869
to the flying saucer.
345
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:15,523
He called it a spaceship.
346
00:15:15,653 --> 00:15:19,744
And the doors closed on its
own, which is not possible,
347
00:15:19,875 --> 00:15:21,181
he thought.
348
00:15:21,311 --> 00:15:25,402
But once they got to the
craft, he could relax.
349
00:15:25,533 --> 00:15:27,927
He immediately
picked up a shotgun.
350
00:15:28,057 --> 00:15:34,150
And by the time he got himself
in order, the craft took off.
351
00:15:34,281 --> 00:15:37,153
He went back to
his pickup truck.
352
00:15:37,284 --> 00:15:40,026
It took off, but it
hovered above the ground,
353
00:15:40,156 --> 00:15:42,593
somewhere away from
the pickup truck.
354
00:15:42,724 --> 00:15:46,032
But as the engine
came back on, and he
355
00:15:46,162 --> 00:15:47,772
was able to use the radio.
356
00:15:47,903 --> 00:15:51,994
And as he started hearing a
radio, they were calling him.
357
00:15:52,125 --> 00:15:55,867
They were trying to call him and
giving him a security status.
358
00:15:55,998 --> 00:15:59,784
And he said, I have a
major problem out here.
359
00:15:59,915 --> 00:16:01,264
And he didn't say
he was in trouble.
360
00:16:01,395 --> 00:16:02,831
He just said, I have a
major problem out here,
361
00:16:02,962 --> 00:16:04,006
and I need a supervisor.
362
00:16:04,137 --> 00:16:06,574
And I need another patrol.
363
00:16:06,704 --> 00:16:09,359
And they said, other
units are responding.
364
00:16:09,490 --> 00:16:11,361
And in fact, they
sent what they would
365
00:16:11,492 --> 00:16:15,496
consider their assault
team or a six-man,
366
00:16:15,626 --> 00:16:17,237
called quick reaction team.
367
00:16:17,367 --> 00:16:19,804
They were already
responding, including
368
00:16:19,935 --> 00:16:21,763
some of the security policemen.
369
00:16:21,893 --> 00:16:24,940
They called them security
alert team from Manzano
370
00:16:25,071 --> 00:16:27,116
was going out there
to try to help.
371
00:16:27,247 --> 00:16:29,989
And from Manzano
base to this bunker
372
00:16:30,119 --> 00:16:33,296
is probably 3 and
1/2 miles or so.
373
00:16:33,427 --> 00:16:37,039
Well, when the
calvary showed up,
374
00:16:37,170 --> 00:16:39,520
he doesn't know what
to tell anybody.
375
00:16:39,650 --> 00:16:42,349
What are they going to believe?
376
00:16:42,479 --> 00:16:44,351
So when they took him
back-- they relieved him,
377
00:16:44,481 --> 00:16:45,830
and he took him
back to the office.
378
00:16:45,961 --> 00:16:48,877
And he tells the story
to his supervisor.
379
00:16:49,008 --> 00:16:52,185
One of the security
supervisors is Russell Douglas
380
00:16:52,315 --> 00:16:54,187
was his name.
381
00:16:54,317 --> 00:16:57,973
And Russ listened
to him intently
382
00:16:58,104 --> 00:17:01,455
and immediately notified OSI.
383
00:17:01,585 --> 00:17:04,197
And I was the on-call
agent that night.
384
00:17:04,327 --> 00:17:06,242
And this was like
4:00 in the morning.
385
00:17:06,373 --> 00:17:08,070
By the time everything.
386
00:17:08,201 --> 00:17:10,159
So they called me.
387
00:17:10,290 --> 00:17:11,508
They said, we got a situation.
388
00:17:11,639 --> 00:17:14,468
So I went out to
Sandia Security Office,
389
00:17:14,598 --> 00:17:17,384
and the guard was there.
390
00:17:17,514 --> 00:17:21,040
And Russ told me what happened.
391
00:17:21,170 --> 00:17:24,260
And I said, OK, is
he hurt, injured?
392
00:17:24,391 --> 00:17:25,827
No.
393
00:17:25,957 --> 00:17:27,959
He said, he's been checked
by one of our medics.
394
00:17:28,090 --> 00:17:31,267
He didn't seem to be
injured in any way.
395
00:17:31,398 --> 00:17:35,663
He's a little concerned about
what happened, and I said,
396
00:17:35,793 --> 00:17:37,099
what about radiation?
397
00:17:37,230 --> 00:17:39,275
And he said, we didn't
check him for that.
398
00:17:39,406 --> 00:17:40,842
Maybe we should.
399
00:17:40,972 --> 00:17:42,235
I said, I think we should.
400
00:17:42,365 --> 00:17:45,020
So anyways, they got
people in to do that.
401
00:17:45,151 --> 00:17:47,414
And then I walked in,
and I identified myself.
402
00:17:47,544 --> 00:17:49,720
And I said, I just want
to know what happened.
403
00:17:49,851 --> 00:17:50,982
And he told me.
404
00:17:51,113 --> 00:17:52,506
That's the story
I just told you.
405
00:17:52,636 --> 00:17:53,898
He told me the story.
406
00:17:54,029 --> 00:17:55,596
And I said, did you
fire your shotgun at it?
407
00:17:55,726 --> 00:17:57,250
No, I couldn't.
408
00:17:57,380 --> 00:17:58,990
I would have.
409
00:17:59,121 --> 00:18:00,862
I probably should have
stayed back farther
410
00:18:00,992 --> 00:18:04,344
because, as I got
closer, I was frozen.
411
00:18:04,474 --> 00:18:06,476
I don't know how they did it.
412
00:18:06,607 --> 00:18:07,477
I said, OK.
413
00:18:07,608 --> 00:18:10,524
And I said, did you black out?
414
00:18:10,654 --> 00:18:12,830
No, no, I never blacked out.
415
00:18:12,961 --> 00:18:15,094
He said, I just was frozen.
416
00:18:15,224 --> 00:18:16,617
I couldn't move.
417
00:18:16,747 --> 00:18:18,314
It was like, my body
weighed thousands of pounds.
418
00:18:18,445 --> 00:18:20,099
I couldn't move.
419
00:18:20,229 --> 00:18:22,318
I said, did they come
over to you, touch you?
420
00:18:22,449 --> 00:18:24,103
No.
421
00:18:24,233 --> 00:18:27,106
>> And he's been through a war,
so he wouldn't just freeze up
422
00:18:27,236 --> 00:18:28,629
because of fear.
423
00:18:28,759 --> 00:18:30,413
It must've been some
energetic field,
424
00:18:30,544 --> 00:18:32,676
if you want to talk about that.
425
00:18:32,807 --> 00:18:34,069
>> That's what we--
426
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:36,811
now, this went on,
this investigation
427
00:18:36,941 --> 00:18:38,204
went for a long time.
428
00:18:38,334 --> 00:18:39,901
Because the teams
that got there went in
429
00:18:40,031 --> 00:18:42,730
to check on the material
that's inside that bunker.
430
00:18:42,860 --> 00:18:47,256
And as they brought this
stuff up, it's missing.
431
00:18:47,387 --> 00:18:49,040
There's nothing there.
432
00:18:49,171 --> 00:18:52,696
So they stole-- it
wasn't a nuclear weapon.
433
00:18:52,827 --> 00:18:56,787
It was nuclear
material for a weapon,
434
00:18:56,918 --> 00:19:00,400
but it was safeguarded,
like a nuclear weapon.
435
00:19:00,530 --> 00:19:01,749
Anyways, it was missing.
436
00:19:01,879 --> 00:19:05,056
Well, while I was in
this interview with him,
437
00:19:05,187 --> 00:19:09,191
Russ comes to the door, and
he motions for me to come out.
438
00:19:09,322 --> 00:19:12,934
And I go out, and he said, the
material inside that bunker
439
00:19:13,064 --> 00:19:15,154
is missing.
440
00:19:15,284 --> 00:19:17,243
Well, I didn't know what
was in at that time.
441
00:19:17,373 --> 00:19:18,287
I said, well, what is it?
442
00:19:18,418 --> 00:19:19,506
Nuclear weapon?
443
00:19:19,636 --> 00:19:21,421
He said, no, it's
nuclear material.
444
00:19:21,551 --> 00:19:22,726
He said, I can tell you.
445
00:19:22,857 --> 00:19:23,814
I'll give you a list of it.
446
00:19:23,945 --> 00:19:24,859
It's classified.
447
00:19:24,989 --> 00:19:26,730
And I said, yeah, I need to--
448
00:19:26,861 --> 00:19:28,863
I don't know what it is.
449
00:19:28,993 --> 00:19:30,560
Show it.
450
00:19:30,691 --> 00:19:32,432
So he gives me a list of the
things that were in there.
451
00:19:32,562 --> 00:19:35,522
And there was a
package of materials
452
00:19:35,652 --> 00:19:38,916
that they could take out and
put it in a nuclear weapon
453
00:19:39,047 --> 00:19:40,353
to make it function.
454
00:19:40,483 --> 00:19:42,268
It wasn't the nuclear material.
455
00:19:42,398 --> 00:19:44,661
It was components.
456
00:19:44,792 --> 00:19:46,837
They call them MC,
military components.
457
00:19:46,968 --> 00:19:49,318
MC and there were numbers.
458
00:19:49,449 --> 00:19:50,754
I said, all this classified?
459
00:19:50,885 --> 00:19:52,147
Yeah, highly classified.
460
00:19:52,278 --> 00:19:54,541
I said, well, what could
somebody do with it?
461
00:19:54,671 --> 00:19:58,414
And he said, if they got
the nuclear material,
462
00:19:58,545 --> 00:20:01,983
the fissionable material,
the uranium, or plutonium,
463
00:20:02,113 --> 00:20:04,681
or cobalt, they
could make a bomb.
464
00:20:04,812 --> 00:20:06,770
Of course, now, I have to
start making phone calls
465
00:20:06,901 --> 00:20:08,990
and sending everything
up to headquarters
466
00:20:09,120 --> 00:20:12,123
and getting my supervisor
involved in it.
467
00:20:12,254 --> 00:20:15,649
In 1980, I'd been an OSI agent
for just a couple of years.
468
00:20:15,779 --> 00:20:18,217
I'd been briefed in a lot
of different programs.
469
00:20:18,347 --> 00:20:20,001
I knew about UFOs.
470
00:20:20,131 --> 00:20:22,133
I mean, I'd been briefed in that
because of the Paul Bennewitz
471
00:20:22,264 --> 00:20:23,439
case.
472
00:20:23,570 --> 00:20:26,225
And so, I thought,
this is legitimate.
473
00:20:26,355 --> 00:20:30,141
And as I went back in the
room, I asked security,
474
00:20:30,272 --> 00:20:31,926
you need water or something?
475
00:20:32,056 --> 00:20:33,057
No, no, no, I'm good.
476
00:20:33,188 --> 00:20:34,276
He said, do you believe me?
477
00:20:34,407 --> 00:20:35,234
I said, I believe you.
478
00:20:35,364 --> 00:20:36,452
Yeah, I believe you.
479
00:20:36,583 --> 00:20:37,888
I believe you,
something happened.
480
00:20:38,019 --> 00:20:40,587
>> Do you think maybe
they took this stuff,
481
00:20:40,717 --> 00:20:45,505
and then it was to prevent us
from utilizing it in a nuclear
482
00:20:45,635 --> 00:20:47,333
warhead?
483
00:20:47,463 --> 00:20:50,640
>> That thought crossed a number
of people's minds is that they
484
00:20:50,771 --> 00:20:53,948
were trying to prevent
something from happening.
485
00:20:54,078 --> 00:20:56,167
And maybe they didn't
understand everything
486
00:20:56,298 --> 00:20:59,954
about our nuclear weapons
or nuclear materials,
487
00:21:00,084 --> 00:21:03,349
so they were going to, maybe,
analyze it and determine
488
00:21:03,479 --> 00:21:07,048
it could be used for war-making
or something like that,
489
00:21:07,178 --> 00:21:08,571
and they didn't
want that to happen.
490
00:21:08,702 --> 00:21:10,312
That's just a guess
on our part because we
491
00:21:10,443 --> 00:21:12,662
don't know how aliens think.
492
00:21:12,793 --> 00:21:19,887
I told him, I said, the material
inside a bunker is missing.
493
00:21:20,017 --> 00:21:23,238
He said, I'm going to get fired.
494
00:21:23,369 --> 00:21:25,980
And I said, don't worry about
anything like that right now.
495
00:21:26,110 --> 00:21:27,808
I said, you did your job.
496
00:21:27,938 --> 00:21:29,026
He said, I tried.
497
00:21:29,157 --> 00:21:31,246
They froze me.
498
00:21:31,377 --> 00:21:34,205
He said, but I don't know
how I am going to prove that.
499
00:21:34,336 --> 00:21:36,120
Because people are going
to think I'm a coward,
500
00:21:36,251 --> 00:21:38,906
and I didn't try to shoot them.
501
00:21:39,036 --> 00:21:41,169
My responsibility is
guarding that material,
502
00:21:41,300 --> 00:21:43,389
and I didn't do that.
503
00:21:43,519 --> 00:21:46,392
So we're not concerned
about that quite yet.
504
00:21:46,522 --> 00:21:49,046
We're concerned about
material, where it went.
505
00:21:49,177 --> 00:21:53,181
He said, it went in that
spacecraft in outer space.
506
00:21:53,312 --> 00:21:56,402
He gave me really a
detailed description,
507
00:21:56,532 --> 00:22:00,144
and he actually was
able to sketch what
508
00:22:00,275 --> 00:22:02,103
these entities looked like.
509
00:22:02,233 --> 00:22:06,281
And what he sketched, I
wish I had them here now.
510
00:22:06,412 --> 00:22:08,239
They were all classified
in Washington.
511
00:22:08,370 --> 00:22:11,242
But they look like
little space people
512
00:22:11,373 --> 00:22:14,245
that you would see
in space shows.
513
00:22:14,376 --> 00:22:15,595
>> Like a pop culture type.
514
00:22:15,725 --> 00:22:16,770
>> Yeah, like a pop culture.
515
00:22:16,900 --> 00:22:19,120
They had helmets-- huge helmets.
516
00:22:19,250 --> 00:22:21,165
He said, he didn't
know, if it was
517
00:22:21,296 --> 00:22:23,646
because they needed
an environmental air
518
00:22:23,777 --> 00:22:26,736
or something inside that, or
if their heads were that big.
519
00:22:26,867 --> 00:22:28,390
He couldn't determine that.
520
00:22:28,521 --> 00:22:30,653
Or if it was just a robot.
521
00:22:30,784 --> 00:22:33,090
But I said, I confronted
him with this.
522
00:22:33,221 --> 00:22:37,007
I said, you said that the
helmet was big with a tube.
523
00:22:37,138 --> 00:22:38,574
>> Yeah, and respirators
or something.
524
00:22:38,705 --> 00:22:39,880
>> He said, yeah.
525
00:22:40,010 --> 00:22:41,055
I said, well, if it
was a robot, they
526
00:22:41,185 --> 00:22:42,622
wouldn't need to breathe air.
527
00:22:42,752 --> 00:22:45,276
And he thought, oh,
yeah, that's right.
528
00:22:45,407 --> 00:22:46,669
So they must have been real.
529
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:48,497
He says, it must have
been extraterrestrial.
530
00:22:48,628 --> 00:22:50,717
I say, yeah, probably were.
531
00:22:50,847 --> 00:22:53,894
Now, at that time
in my career, I
532
00:22:54,024 --> 00:22:56,897
hadn't been briefed in all
the different extraterrestrial
533
00:22:57,027 --> 00:22:58,028
races or anything like that.
534
00:22:58,159 --> 00:22:59,465
So we continued.
535
00:22:59,595 --> 00:23:03,556
He gave us a description,
and that was it.
536
00:23:03,686 --> 00:23:06,472
And I said, well, you go
home and get some sleep.
537
00:23:06,602 --> 00:23:09,300
And we'll continue it
at some other time.
538
00:23:09,431 --> 00:23:11,651
>> Was it happening at
any other facilities,
539
00:23:11,781 --> 00:23:14,871
any other bases
that we controlled?
540
00:23:15,002 --> 00:23:15,959
>> Yes.
541
00:23:16,090 --> 00:23:17,744
>> There were at the same time?
542
00:23:17,874 --> 00:23:20,660
>> There were other cases that
happened during that same time
543
00:23:20,790 --> 00:23:21,922
period.
544
00:23:22,052 --> 00:23:23,880
But what's interesting,
we were going
545
00:23:24,011 --> 00:23:26,927
to setup another interview
with the security guard.
546
00:23:27,057 --> 00:23:31,410
And Russ called me and
said, can you come over?
547
00:23:31,540 --> 00:23:32,889
I got some additional
information.
548
00:23:33,020 --> 00:23:34,369
I'm not going to
share on the phone.
549
00:23:34,500 --> 00:23:36,110
I said, sure.
550
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,374
So I drive over to his office,
and I said, what do you got?
551
00:23:39,505 --> 00:23:44,858
He said, another security guard,
same thing happened to him.
552
00:23:44,988 --> 00:23:46,076
I said, when?
553
00:23:46,207 --> 00:23:48,601
It's about two
weeks ago, he said.
554
00:23:48,731 --> 00:23:49,906
But he shot him.
555
00:23:50,037 --> 00:23:52,953
He fired his shotgun at him.
556
00:23:53,083 --> 00:23:57,479
I said, well, OK,
did he do a report?
557
00:23:57,610 --> 00:23:59,873
No, he's just told us this now.
558
00:24:00,003 --> 00:24:01,178
He covered it up.
559
00:24:01,309 --> 00:24:02,484
And it was a different bunker.
560
00:24:02,615 --> 00:24:04,399
It wasn't the same bunker.
561
00:24:04,530 --> 00:24:06,662
And it had nuclear
material in it.
562
00:24:06,793 --> 00:24:10,318
As these two entities
got out, and he
563
00:24:10,449 --> 00:24:13,016
described in exactly the same
way as the other security guard
564
00:24:13,147 --> 00:24:13,930
did.
565
00:24:14,061 --> 00:24:15,889
He fired a shotgun.
566
00:24:16,019 --> 00:24:17,238
Four slugs he had.
567
00:24:17,368 --> 00:24:19,153
There's so many
slugs in the shotgun.
568
00:24:19,283 --> 00:24:21,982
He fired all four at him.
569
00:24:22,112 --> 00:24:24,288
And the bullets
just-- the slugs.
570
00:24:24,419 --> 00:24:26,377
They were shotgun slugs.
571
00:24:26,508 --> 00:24:31,382
They just seemed to dissipate,
as they never hit him.
572
00:24:31,513 --> 00:24:32,732
They just kind of dissipate.
573
00:24:32,862 --> 00:24:35,691
But it got their
attention to a point
574
00:24:35,822 --> 00:24:38,781
where it pulled the shotgun
away from his hands,
575
00:24:38,912 --> 00:24:41,001
and it fell on the ground.
576
00:24:41,131 --> 00:24:45,440
And then he backed up,
they went into this bunker,
577
00:24:45,571 --> 00:24:49,618
came back out, did the same
exact thing, and flew away.
578
00:24:49,749 --> 00:24:52,012
Well, he went over
and got the shotgun,
579
00:24:52,142 --> 00:24:56,582
and he replaced the
slugs with his own slugs
580
00:24:56,712 --> 00:24:58,018
and never reported it.
581
00:24:58,148 --> 00:24:59,802
>> Did they go out and
do another investigation
582
00:24:59,933 --> 00:25:01,021
of the area and find anything?
583
00:25:01,151 --> 00:25:01,848
>> Exactly.
584
00:25:01,978 --> 00:25:02,979
We went out there.
585
00:25:03,110 --> 00:25:04,459
But this was several weeks--
586
00:25:04,590 --> 00:25:06,026
>> Yes, of course.
587
00:25:06,156 --> 00:25:08,855
>> --before, so there wasn't
any evidence out there.
588
00:25:08,985 --> 00:25:10,639
But he had it in a bag.
589
00:25:10,770 --> 00:25:14,774
He had the spent shotgun shells
in the bag that he gave to me.
590
00:25:14,904 --> 00:25:17,820
He said, those are the ones that
were the Sandia issued to me.
591
00:25:17,951 --> 00:25:19,126
And I put mine.
592
00:25:19,256 --> 00:25:21,041
I know I'm going to
get fired for it,
593
00:25:21,171 --> 00:25:23,522
but I know so-and-so,
the other security guard,
594
00:25:23,652 --> 00:25:25,611
and I want to report that
it happened to me, too.
595
00:25:25,741 --> 00:25:27,308
I said, well, why
didn't you report it?
596
00:25:27,438 --> 00:25:29,005
He said, I was scared
to death to report.
597
00:25:29,136 --> 00:25:31,530
Nobody's going to believe me.
598
00:25:31,660 --> 00:25:35,664
He said, plus, I shot my
shotgun, and nothing happened.
599
00:25:35,795 --> 00:25:37,361
I don't even know
where those slugs went.
600
00:25:37,492 --> 00:25:38,537
We can't find them.
601
00:25:38,667 --> 00:25:40,626
I went over and
looked around it.
602
00:25:40,756 --> 00:25:43,759
It maybe just absorbed
into the bodies.
603
00:25:43,890 --> 00:25:46,632
Now, he never described
them as robots.
604
00:25:46,762 --> 00:25:50,287
He described them as real
creatures or real entities.
605
00:25:50,418 --> 00:25:53,726
And then he also said,
he heard them speaking.
606
00:25:53,856 --> 00:25:55,815
They were speaking
like they were
607
00:25:55,945 --> 00:25:58,208
yelling at each other,
high-pitched voices, back
608
00:25:58,339 --> 00:25:59,993
and forth.
609
00:26:00,123 --> 00:26:02,691
Well, the other guard never
never heard any kind of voices.
610
00:26:02,822 --> 00:26:04,301
>> Did he recognize
that language?
611
00:26:04,432 --> 00:26:05,346
>> No.
612
00:26:05,476 --> 00:26:07,522
He said, it was just screaming.
613
00:26:07,653 --> 00:26:09,742
That's basically
what he told me.
614
00:26:09,872 --> 00:26:13,833
But there were different
pitches from one to the other.
615
00:26:13,963 --> 00:26:18,315
So he realized, one had a
different pitch in its voice
616
00:26:18,446 --> 00:26:19,665
than the other.
617
00:26:19,795 --> 00:26:22,015
But he could hear it.
618
00:26:22,145 --> 00:26:24,104
And as if they
were communicating
619
00:26:24,234 --> 00:26:26,367
to do whatever they were doing.
620
00:26:26,497 --> 00:26:28,587
>> Wasn't there other witnesses
that you said earlier,
621
00:26:28,717 --> 00:26:30,371
who was called in
on the first one.
622
00:26:30,501 --> 00:26:33,592
Was there any witnesses
on the second one?
623
00:26:33,722 --> 00:26:35,289
>> The incident
happened, I think,
624
00:26:35,419 --> 00:26:37,291
it was four weeks earlier.
625
00:26:37,421 --> 00:26:42,296
Security police at Manzano saw
another light coming to Canyon,
626
00:26:42,426 --> 00:26:44,037
but never reported it.
627
00:26:44,167 --> 00:26:46,822
Didn't know what it was, thought
it was just a helicopter.
628
00:26:46,953 --> 00:26:49,042
We interviewed those
security policemen later.
629
00:26:49,172 --> 00:26:51,653
They said, well, we've
seen a lot of lights
630
00:26:51,784 --> 00:26:53,394
out there, a lot of helicopters.
631
00:26:53,524 --> 00:26:56,005
There's training out
there all the time.
632
00:26:56,136 --> 00:26:59,661
The Pararescue school, Air
Force Pararescue school,
633
00:26:59,792 --> 00:27:01,010
they do training out there.
634
00:27:01,141 --> 00:27:02,882
We don't think anything of it.
635
00:27:03,012 --> 00:27:07,147
We saw it that particular
night, which we identified
636
00:27:07,277 --> 00:27:09,453
from the second security guard.
637
00:27:09,584 --> 00:27:13,544
And plus, they have,
on top of the mountain,
638
00:27:13,675 --> 00:27:15,590
they have a camera,
a long-range--
639
00:27:15,721 --> 00:27:20,334
it's called a long-range
scanner camera.
640
00:27:20,464 --> 00:27:25,034
But it only records things
for a 24-hour period.
641
00:27:25,165 --> 00:27:29,691
So you can't go back and look
beyond the 24-- it erases it.
642
00:27:29,822 --> 00:27:31,432
It only has a--
643
00:27:31,562 --> 00:27:34,043
this is 1980 technology, so
they didn't have the hard drives
644
00:27:34,174 --> 00:27:36,829
that could store any.
645
00:27:36,959 --> 00:27:41,355
However, when I first
learned about it--
646
00:27:41,485 --> 00:27:45,925
I didn't, but our tech technical
people knew about the camera.
647
00:27:46,055 --> 00:27:48,275
So the first incident
that we investigated,
648
00:27:48,405 --> 00:27:50,712
we got the footage on that.
649
00:27:50,843 --> 00:27:52,627
We got the footage.
650
00:27:52,758 --> 00:27:55,412
However, the camera only
goes in one direction.
651
00:27:55,543 --> 00:27:57,458
It doesn't point down.
652
00:27:57,588 --> 00:28:00,591
So all you see is this
thing coming in and land,
653
00:28:00,722 --> 00:28:03,203
and you can't see anything else
that's happening in the ground.
654
00:28:03,333 --> 00:28:04,465
>> It's a fixed horizon.
655
00:28:04,595 --> 00:28:05,814
>> Exactly.
656
00:28:05,945 --> 00:28:09,252
But what they did
was, they took frames,
657
00:28:09,383 --> 00:28:13,430
and they actually were able
to look at, and identify,
658
00:28:13,561 --> 00:28:18,740
and take a frame picture of
that saucer-shaped craft.
659
00:28:18,871 --> 00:28:21,221
And when it went
up to headquarters,
660
00:28:21,351 --> 00:28:22,483
they identified it.
661
00:28:22,613 --> 00:28:24,528
Although, I never
was told because,
662
00:28:24,659 --> 00:28:28,445
at the ground level, my level,
I didn't have a need to know.
663
00:28:28,576 --> 00:28:36,018
But in headquarters knew
exactly what particular entity.
664
00:28:36,149 --> 00:28:37,585
>> So they knew what race.
665
00:28:37,716 --> 00:28:42,155
They obviously seen this
craft before and compared it
666
00:28:42,285 --> 00:28:43,939
to, maybe, other incidences.
667
00:28:44,070 --> 00:28:47,334
Did you ever find
out ever what it was?
668
00:28:47,464 --> 00:28:48,596
>> It took me some time.
669
00:28:48,727 --> 00:28:50,467
But eventually, I
found out that it
670
00:28:50,598 --> 00:28:52,905
was a craft flown by the Grays.
671
00:28:53,035 --> 00:28:58,388
But the identities of the
operators of the Grays' craft
672
00:28:58,519 --> 00:29:01,391
that have been seen and
witnessed and investigated
673
00:29:01,522 --> 00:29:04,568
a number of different occasions
around military installations
674
00:29:04,699 --> 00:29:08,007
in the past, didn't
fit the entities
675
00:29:08,137 --> 00:29:09,573
that came out of the craft.
676
00:29:09,704 --> 00:29:12,838
So they thought, maybe, they
were, in fact, some kind
677
00:29:12,968 --> 00:29:15,971
of robots or maybe hybrids.
678
00:29:16,102 --> 00:29:17,494
>> Programmed life forms maybe.
679
00:29:17,625 --> 00:29:19,061
>> Programmed life forms.
680
00:29:19,192 --> 00:29:20,584
Yeah, exactly.
681
00:29:20,715 --> 00:29:23,239
But I didn't know any more
than that, about that.
682
00:29:23,370 --> 00:29:26,329
But ironically, during that
same time period in 1980,
683
00:29:26,460 --> 00:29:29,768
there were a number
of other incidents
684
00:29:29,898 --> 00:29:31,770
that happened at
military installations,
685
00:29:31,900 --> 00:29:34,947
missile sites around
the United States,
686
00:29:35,077 --> 00:29:38,037
exactly the same
thing, including
687
00:29:38,167 --> 00:29:42,084
one particular incident, which
is still highly classified,
688
00:29:42,215 --> 00:29:44,086
where they actually
took a nuclear weapon.
689
00:29:44,217 --> 00:29:51,441
They took a W-28 a
warhead, and a W-28 warhead
690
00:29:51,572 --> 00:29:55,010
was a one megaton
gravity-dropped bomb.
691
00:29:55,141 --> 00:30:01,669
It was missing out of a storage
area at a strategic air command
692
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:03,932
based in the United States.
693
00:30:04,063 --> 00:30:07,240
So these things have
happened in the past.
694
00:30:07,370 --> 00:30:10,896
>> Are these security forces
briefed on extraterrestrial
695
00:30:11,026 --> 00:30:14,464
activity, and the beings, and
entities, and also the craft?
696
00:30:14,595 --> 00:30:17,641
>> Well, they weren't until
all these incidents started
697
00:30:17,772 --> 00:30:18,904
happening.
698
00:30:19,034 --> 00:30:20,993
And then, they
started being briefed.
699
00:30:21,123 --> 00:30:23,952
They were given a
classified briefing
700
00:30:24,083 --> 00:30:25,388
on a need-to-know basis.
701
00:30:25,519 --> 00:30:27,956
If they were guarding a
nuclear weapon storage
702
00:30:28,087 --> 00:30:31,960
area or a missile site,
the security policemen
703
00:30:32,091 --> 00:30:35,050
operate in the field, the
missile fields, launch control
704
00:30:35,181 --> 00:30:38,053
facilities, these
security policemen
705
00:30:38,184 --> 00:30:42,884
were given a classified
briefing that they may encounter
706
00:30:43,015 --> 00:30:46,235
something unknown
an unknown aircraft,
707
00:30:46,366 --> 00:30:51,850
flying in with unknown entities
on board or they use creatures.
708
00:30:51,980 --> 00:30:55,462
And they were to follow
these set procedures.
709
00:30:55,592 --> 00:30:58,944
And there were set procedures,
but they were in a case,
710
00:30:59,074 --> 00:31:02,599
and they were only to be broken
open if they were responding
711
00:31:02,730 --> 00:31:04,036
to an incident like that.
712
00:31:04,166 --> 00:31:07,126
And the procedures
were classified,
713
00:31:07,256 --> 00:31:09,476
but they were in
this case that they
714
00:31:09,606 --> 00:31:13,219
would break open and pull out
if they actually ever responded.
715
00:31:13,349 --> 00:31:16,483
And this came in the
late '70s and early '80s.
716
00:31:16,613 --> 00:31:17,876
>> Yeah.
717
00:31:18,006 --> 00:31:19,878
I know today, for a
fact, that they now
718
00:31:20,008 --> 00:31:23,055
have specific protocols
for those individuals that
719
00:31:23,185 --> 00:31:26,536
are guarding sensitive
materials of what
720
00:31:26,667 --> 00:31:29,104
to do in case of
the event of, I'll
721
00:31:29,235 --> 00:31:31,890
just say, as you said
earlier, they do still
722
00:31:32,020 --> 00:31:36,851
use those terms of creatures,
as they did in the early '80s,
723
00:31:36,982 --> 00:31:39,071
if they were actually
approached or if they seen this.
724
00:31:39,201 --> 00:31:40,811
>> Yeah.
725
00:31:40,942 --> 00:31:44,815
We had a Lieutenant Colonel
Ronald Gray give a presentation
726
00:31:44,946 --> 00:31:48,994
at a UFO convention about
this a few years ago,
727
00:31:49,124 --> 00:31:53,041
and he talked about what
the new procedures are now,
728
00:31:53,172 --> 00:31:54,651
compared to years ago.
729
00:31:54,782 --> 00:31:56,088
They were never briefed.
730
00:31:56,218 --> 00:31:59,743
And so they were never
able to function or know
731
00:31:59,874 --> 00:32:03,008
what to do if some
ET aircraft landed.
732
00:32:03,138 --> 00:32:05,184
But now, as you
said, there are set
733
00:32:05,314 --> 00:32:09,231
procedures that are classified
of what to do, step-by-step.
734
00:32:09,362 --> 00:32:11,538
>> Could you share with us on
any of these protocols from
735
00:32:11,668 --> 00:32:12,234
back then?
736
00:32:12,365 --> 00:32:14,062
>> Yeah.
737
00:32:14,193 --> 00:32:16,151
Some of the protocols-- and I
don't know every one of them,
738
00:32:16,282 --> 00:32:18,458
and I think there were
something like 10 or 12 of them.
739
00:32:18,588 --> 00:32:20,460
And there were secondary ones.
740
00:32:20,590 --> 00:32:24,203
If you do this, and that
doesn't work, you do this.
741
00:32:24,333 --> 00:32:30,557
And so, the first one is, do
not fire at the craft nor fire
742
00:32:30,687 --> 00:32:32,341
at the creature or the entities.
743
00:32:32,472 --> 00:32:34,126
>> Correct.
744
00:32:34,256 --> 00:32:38,304
>> I'll use entities here, but
the words in this was creature.
745
00:32:38,434 --> 00:32:41,611
Secondly, do not
approach the craft.
746
00:32:41,742 --> 00:32:45,528
Stay away from the
craft, and never, never
747
00:32:45,659 --> 00:32:48,140
approach the entities.
748
00:32:48,270 --> 00:32:52,100
Number three, immediately
notify central security control
749
00:32:52,231 --> 00:32:55,321
or launch control
facility dispatch.
750
00:32:55,451 --> 00:32:59,020
And it was watch,
observe, and detect,
751
00:32:59,151 --> 00:33:02,284
whether there's any other
crafts flying around.
752
00:33:02,415 --> 00:33:04,895
If that's the only
one on the ground, OK.
753
00:33:05,026 --> 00:33:08,899
But keep a lookout for any
other crafts flying in the area,
754
00:33:09,030 --> 00:33:11,380
maybe on a recon mission
or something like that.
755
00:33:11,511 --> 00:33:16,124
And then one of them, I can
remember is, don't be fooled.
756
00:33:16,255 --> 00:33:21,390
Don't be fooled by a possibility
that a Soviet or this could be
757
00:33:21,521 --> 00:33:25,003
a Soviet-staged
event or a hostile--
758
00:33:25,133 --> 00:33:27,266
I think it was a
hostile country event.
759
00:33:27,396 --> 00:33:28,832
And during that time
period, it would
760
00:33:28,963 --> 00:33:30,399
have been the Soviets
or the Chinese,
761
00:33:30,530 --> 00:33:34,055
but primarily, we were
concerned about the Russians.
762
00:33:34,186 --> 00:33:39,974
And make sure it wasn't staged
by or it was an exercise.
763
00:33:40,105 --> 00:33:43,934
Never shoot your
exercise opponents,
764
00:33:44,065 --> 00:33:45,849
something to that effect.
765
00:33:45,980 --> 00:33:47,982
So those things, I can
remember that was on there.
766
00:33:48,113 --> 00:33:50,028
Now, there were many others.
767
00:33:50,158 --> 00:33:52,769
And as I understand,
there is even--
768
00:33:52,900 --> 00:33:56,208
if you had to shoot,
you had to shoot
769
00:33:56,338 --> 00:33:59,994
in a certain area the entity's
body and things like that.
770
00:34:00,125 --> 00:34:05,217
I think one of them was,
if you had to engage,
771
00:34:05,347 --> 00:34:08,568
you would shoot at any
environmental protection
772
00:34:08,698 --> 00:34:12,659
that this entity had, such as
breathing apparatus, disrupt
773
00:34:12,789 --> 00:34:16,445
the breathing apparatus, or
some other environmental control
774
00:34:16,576 --> 00:34:19,970
first rather than trying
to shoot into the body.
775
00:34:20,101 --> 00:34:22,712
Disable the entity.
776
00:34:22,843 --> 00:34:23,539
>> That makes sense.
777
00:34:23,670 --> 00:34:25,237
>> Yeah.
778
00:34:25,367 --> 00:34:26,412
Rick, do you think there was
a message in all of this?
779
00:34:26,542 --> 00:34:27,674
>> Oh, absolutely.
780
00:34:27,804 --> 00:34:28,892
There was a message.
781
00:34:29,023 --> 00:34:31,634
I don't think, at
the time, I was
782
00:34:31,765 --> 00:34:34,898
in a position to determine
what that message was.
783
00:34:35,029 --> 00:34:38,641
But there were supervisors
above me, many people above me.
784
00:34:38,772 --> 00:34:40,469
>> Different opinions, probably.
785
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:43,733
>> Different opinions,
trying to figure out why.
786
00:34:43,864 --> 00:34:48,303
Why are they only targeting
nuclear weapons storage areas
787
00:34:48,434 --> 00:34:51,959
or nuclear weapon
complexes or missile silos?
788
00:34:52,090 --> 00:34:56,050
Now my personal opinion is,
what we talked about earlier.
789
00:34:56,181 --> 00:35:01,490
I think that they don't know
everything about us, maybe,
790
00:35:01,621 --> 00:35:04,493
but they know that we
have this nuclear weapon.
791
00:35:04,624 --> 00:35:06,147
They've seen it tested.
792
00:35:06,278 --> 00:35:10,456
They probably watched testing
at the Nevada test site
793
00:35:10,586 --> 00:35:13,546
or saw what we were doing
underground at the Nevada test
794
00:35:13,676 --> 00:35:16,723
site after 1962.
795
00:35:16,853 --> 00:35:19,029
I think the
moratorium was in '62.
796
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:20,901
They went from above ground.
797
00:35:21,031 --> 00:35:22,468
They probably were
in the Pacific,
798
00:35:22,598 --> 00:35:25,906
watching us detonate
nuclear weapons.
799
00:35:26,036 --> 00:35:28,778
They knew they were harmful.
800
00:35:28,909 --> 00:35:33,566
And maybe they were concerned
about us as a society,
801
00:35:33,696 --> 00:35:35,916
and they decided, OK,
let's steal this stuff
802
00:35:36,046 --> 00:35:37,657
and keep them from making more.
803
00:35:37,787 --> 00:35:43,141
I mean, in reality, that
probably sounds pretty
804
00:35:43,271 --> 00:35:47,232
farfetched because we have so
many different nuclear weapons
805
00:35:47,362 --> 00:35:50,844
storage areas and not just
us, but the Soviet Union
806
00:35:50,974 --> 00:35:52,672
had thousands.
807
00:35:52,802 --> 00:35:55,544
China had thousands,
even France,
808
00:35:55,675 --> 00:35:57,329
and Britain had thousands.
809
00:35:57,459 --> 00:35:59,461
And what do we do?
810
00:35:59,592 --> 00:36:01,289
How do you handle
something like that.
811
00:36:01,420 --> 00:36:03,161
Or how do you
determine, OK, what's
812
00:36:03,291 --> 00:36:05,163
our next course of
action because they're
813
00:36:05,293 --> 00:36:07,513
stealing our nuclear weapons?
814
00:36:07,643 --> 00:36:09,993
>> With working with all the
scientists that you have worked
815
00:36:10,124 --> 00:36:13,736
with and everyone in
intelligence, do you believe,
816
00:36:13,867 --> 00:36:17,349
in any way, that
maybe we're affecting
817
00:36:17,479 --> 00:36:19,307
the extraterrestrials,
and their race,
818
00:36:19,438 --> 00:36:22,397
and their homes with
our nuclear activity.
819
00:36:22,528 --> 00:36:25,400
>> I do, and they do.
820
00:36:25,531 --> 00:36:28,577
I spoke to many scientists at
Sandia National Laboratories
821
00:36:28,708 --> 00:36:30,100
during this time period.
822
00:36:30,231 --> 00:36:36,019
And their concern was that
maybe we, our country--
823
00:36:36,150 --> 00:36:38,587
we were only talking
about the United States--
824
00:36:38,718 --> 00:36:42,330
during our thousands
of nuclear tests,
825
00:36:42,461 --> 00:36:48,423
have disrupted something that we
don't realize that we're doing,
826
00:36:48,554 --> 00:36:52,558
something in the atmosphere,
something that's traveling away
827
00:36:52,688 --> 00:36:55,865
from Earth to their
planet, or something
828
00:36:55,996 --> 00:36:59,086
that they have
here on our planet
829
00:36:59,217 --> 00:37:00,653
that they're trying
to safeguard.
830
00:37:00,783 --> 00:37:06,528
Now, that presents an entirely
another subject matter.
831
00:37:06,659 --> 00:37:10,489
OK, for instance, if the
ETs have a base here,
832
00:37:10,619 --> 00:37:15,929
whether it be under the ocean,
underground, in Antarctica,
833
00:37:16,059 --> 00:37:17,626
or someplace.
834
00:37:17,757 --> 00:37:20,325
And these nuclear weapons
testing that we're doing
835
00:37:20,455 --> 00:37:23,850
or we did then is
disrupting their home
836
00:37:23,980 --> 00:37:27,462
or disrupting their
base on planet Earth.
837
00:37:27,593 --> 00:37:28,942
>> Rick, this was
a great episode.
838
00:37:29,072 --> 00:37:30,509
I love doing this
interview with you
839
00:37:30,639 --> 00:37:32,511
because I was stationed
at Kirtland, as you know,
840
00:37:32,641 --> 00:37:34,077
and it brings back
a lot of memories.
841
00:37:34,208 --> 00:37:35,601
Thanks for being on the show.
842
00:37:35,731 --> 00:37:36,689
>> Great to be here, Emery.
843
00:37:36,819 --> 00:37:38,299
Thank you.
844
00:37:38,430 --> 00:37:40,170
>> I'm Emery Smith, and
this is "Cosmic Disclosure."
845
00:37:40,301 --> 00:37:42,347
Until next time.
66046
Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.