All language subtitles for BAND VS BRAND_ THE MUSIC BUSINESS English

oh

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

foreign

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

branding a term that was seldom used in

the music business back in the 60s and

70s most music entities at the time

didn't foresee a long-term future for

their artists Bill did they know that

rock and roll Likens such as Elvis The

Beatles and Led Zeppelin would outlive

their active careers and their brands

will become more profitable than ever

before

the band versus brand

discussion isn't just something that's

contemporary or goes back even 10 20

years this has been going on for decades

when you had groups like The Glen Mill

or orchestra

and the Tommy Dorsey Orchestra who were

big bands with leaders and eventually

the leaders died

but the group kept going a brand is so

important it's like any product or any

company it's everything the trademark

The Shield the Chevron the wings all of

that that's our brand that is our trade

the brand carries a lot I mean when you

see that name on a poster you open up a

newspaper you see it you flip through

Facebook or whatever and you see a brand

and they're playing you know a band

playing it is a brand it's just like

Chevrolet or Apple computer or Gillette

or whatever and then after that you get

into the doo-wop ERA with vocal groups

like The Moon glows and the ink spots

and eventually if they had four or five

guys in the band

they got down to one original guy or

maybe no original guys it's a touchy

touchy subject

um

I'm not against branding about

but I think there's a there's there

should be some Integrity in there and uh

when you sell it out a little too much

it becomes uh

it's not real anymore it's not what it

was and it's unfortunate that you know

that a lot of the younger generation

aren't going to experience what that was

at that time and then from there you get

into 60s bands like Herman's Hermits and

Paul Revere and the Raiders

bands like that a lot of which is still

around today

with one original member or no original

members I believe The Troggs who did

Wild Thing

are still playing

all the original guys are dead that's an

interesting phenomena but I think it's

been something that's happened for quite

a while I think a lot of you know a lot

of artists sometimes suffer from it in a

way because they realize shoot the brand

is more powerful than I am you know what

I mean these days you know bands have to

be a lot more protective of their brand

you know not that it wasn't important

back then but I think today today's

environment with where we are where the

bands really can't rely on a lot of

income coming in from selling records

they have to rely on merchandise they

have to rely on you know licensing to

film and TV hope getting some AirPlay

that generates some royalties for them

so then you take that from up to the

present day uh where you've got groups

like The Temptations and The Four Tops

one original member in each of those

bands

they go out and they play the Greek

Theater which is 4 000 people

and on a double bill and the re and they

sell the thing out because people want

to hear those bodies of work a lot more

musicians need to have a better

understanding of branding in business

period because that's where musicians

fail most the time is they don't

understand that you have to Market

yourself and you have to be a good

business person especially these days

when you can't it's really hard to sell

recorded music your branding is probably

that's what people buy

[Music]

[Music]

internet and online Digital streaming

merchandising has become a necessary

means of artist branding

it is vital to own the trademark and to

establish an eye-catching logo to

imprint on everything from t-shirts

baseball caps and stickers to alcoholic

beverages tattoos and condoms I think

the argument can be made that the brand

is more important than the band you know

these days uh I would venture to say

that a lot of bands make a lot more

money merchandising their name than they

do selling their records you know the

profit margin is so much greater on the

sale of a t-shirt than it is on a sale

of a record especially if you're

assigned to a major label and you're

working to pay back your advances your

you know your your corporate debt

between your recording and your tour

support and the outside promotion all of

a sudden you're up over a million

dollars on a record and you're paying

the record company back with the

smallest sliver of the pie of each

record sale and the record companies

find very creative ways to tell you that

you've sold less records than you have

even today with with digital

distribution until recently there was

there was uh deductions for breakage you

know I mean it's absurd I remember back

in the late 90s when we were making some

of our records that were getting radio

success you know it was that fine line

because that Mega Death name and that

logo on a record it stood for a for a

quality control right you know when you

buy a Ford or a Mercedes or whatever you

buy you know there has to be uh you know

you expect a certain quality of

something that goes along with it and

that same thing happens I think with

bands in their music the litmus test of

it all is where are these bands in their

career and their earning power and most

of them are not making new recordings

that fans really react to or care about

they need to be on the road selling

merchandise I mean look at the VIP

packages now and many of these tours

that's a big money maker for a lot of

Acts they can go out and get 300 people

to pay 125 dollars to you know meet the

band and get a photo taken that goes a

long way for a lot of these acts to pick

up the extra money it's the branding

thing isn't it you know so I itself has

an importance so you don't realize when

you're just playing in a band you know

it never occurred to me to to trademark

the name of the band but I mean wave

trademarked it because they wanted to

Bootleg all the the t-shirts and all the

um the artwork the Barney bubbled had

done which is which Dave doesn't have

the right to do that but he sold the

rights to some other

t-shirt manufacturing company or

something like that and um and gets all

the money for it when we did the Venom

logo was meant to be something that you

could barely read and these days it's

nothing compared to a death metal or a

black metal or whatever but you know

crazy as far as logos and merchandise

goes with bands it's it's a complicated

and unique situation that's unique to

every band

what rights did they retain what rights

did they sign away

in a case of Iron Maiden

I believe that Paul Deanna who sang on

the first two albums was offered a lump

sum of money

when he needed money

for all his rights connected to Iron

Maiden

the album sales the song publishing the

logo everything there is no Integrity

when it comes to the almighty dollar uh

the Integrity goes out the window every

time we could all sit here and fantasize

and dream about the days when our our

favorite bands or artists were great but

uh now that we're 30 40 years in on on

this and what's left is just the

trademark uh whoever is left in the game

they're going to capitalize on that and

make a make a dollar out of it you know

we trademark our name as soon as we get

signed to a record deal because it says

in the record deal that you have the

right to enter into it which your assets

that you own is with your music your

copyrights your logo your name that that

that's can't ever be contested you're

basically giving approval for that right

so that the record company doesn't get

into trouble so you know as soon as we

sign those deals our lawyers come to us

and say you need to trademark your name

and trademarks are often owned by one

person sometimes you're owned by a

corporation right any number of ways

which is why you see bands over the

years going through all these fights and

members sort of just you know disappear

out of it and it's one guy left standing

they don't really know but they're

thinking oh okay this will be hip you

know I've seen this around it looks kind

of symmetrical it's cool I mean it's not

unlike the Coca-Cola brand or if you

were to see the stones tongue logo

everyone who knows that logo or sees

that Associates with it because it's a

strong brand back in 1988 the Ferrari

Motor Company did not object to us you

know using the name Ferrari however in

1989 when we circled back to them they

did uh and actually they did not object

to us releasing an album under the name

Ferrari what they objected to was

putting the word Ferrari on a T-shirt

and selling it because back in those

days the Ferrari Motor Company actually

made as much money licensing their name

to products that they did from their

automobiles there was a thrash band

called Slaughter right I'm very familiar

with it I guess it was the statute of

limitations they hadn't had something

out for a while so we were able to use

the name Smart's actual real name I know

get away with it we as long as it's my

name but you know it's cool I decided to

form Diana cancer and the grave robbers

and start resurrecting some of the old

45 Grave material then I I mean with

Paul Cutler and he gave me one of the

best birthday presents I ever had he

gave me the name 45 Grave I mean the

iconic Imaging

babies logo The Ramones I mean these are

entities now that are probably going to

make money for years and years and years

maybe even more money than they did at

the in the Heyday of the venue or the

band themselves uh just on the

merchandising rights and those rights

can be incredibly valuable now the truth

is in the vast majority of bands and

artists the rights don't

extend for 20 30 40 years but maybe you

get lucky maybe you have a hit maybe you

have two hit albums maybe you have a

song that goes down into history and you

can always Tour on that but our Crew

Chief came back while we were getting

ready to do the show just before we were

getting ready and uh he said I I have I

have something you guys got to see and

of course everyone

what is it I know this this guy did a

logo for you guys and there have been a

lot of that stuff you know I mean you

know a lot of fans do things like that

and so we said yeah no no you know we'll

look at it after we're done let's do the

show he said no you got to look at this

and we're looking at it and we said you

know no we and as we were saying no he

kind of turned it upside down and

everyone just stopped and went do that

again and he did it again what so uh so

we talked to the fan and now we

incorporate it into our our next album I

mean look at Glenn Danzig and the

Misfits I mean for all the years the

Misfits did not include Glenn you've got

Doyle and the various other incarnations

Jerry of the Misfits doing various

things my understanding is Glenn Danzig

still made money from Misfits

merchandising now the band gets back

together plays a few shows that's an

incredible Story I mean the Misfits now

are clearly more important in terms of

drawing an audience today than they were

in their original so-called heyday

foreign

evity is the key to success for any

business and the music industry is no

exception owning the rights to a brand

and keeping the name current is

essential for any musician to attain a

long lasting career

ultimately the thing that all these

bands have the benefit of is the passage

of time they go from washed up has been

to Living Legends bands are Brands you

know and I mean as a fan of the music

you know you just I guess ultimately

want to hear that song played but man

it's so much better when you see the

original guys playing it now of course

as we know we all get older and goals

and life changes for everybody and

sometimes maybe it's better not to see a

god image of the guy you used to you

know be on your poster wall down there

playing the songs anymore maybe it's

better to replace them aging sucks I

mean getting old sucks and anything

that'll transport us back into time to

enjoy that time in our life where we

were kind of carefree and that those

things were important to us you're going

to go yeah I'd like to relive that

experience just one more time there was

a great adage when you're young play

with old guys when you're old play with

young guys and you know the young guys a

lot of them will work for a lot cheaper

than some of the older guys will can

they perform like they used to

this isn't always this is another issue

you know when you hit late 60s early 70s

can you actually is your body capable of

doing what it is is Steve Perry capable

of singing Journey

like he used to and that's what people

want David Coverdale has a hard time

from the fans and the Press alike but at

the end of the day Davey's got the hits

I'll see Whitesnake any day of the week

I think that I think they're great you

know and but does he you know arguably

does he sing like he did in 1980 no

there's been some cases where some guys

left bands and had really successful

solo careers uh even yeah I mean

speaking of that look at Ozzy Osbourne

sure getting fired from Black Sabbath

and then having such an amazing solo

career right getting as big as Black

Sabbath they continued to play without

me for a while and I never I couldn't

bear to go see it without myself in it

in January of 93 they called me up on

the phone and they said hey you know we

have an offer to go to Europe to do a

big tour 65 shows you know two months in

Europe and uh but the whole thing is

contingent upon you being in the band

without fee we have no offer no matter

how old the band is

um it's artist development constant

constant artist development

um so if the band's been around 47 years

it doesn't matter you're still same with

you are Heap every day we're coming up

with new ideas to redevelop that that

brand

um to keep them current otherwise they

just

you know they just fall by the wayside

but it's uh also maybe one of the

exceptions to the rule one of the

exceptions to the rule because a lot of

guys that I went on to do solo careers

they were they were never as successful

as their bands well I wouldn't have

imagined it I never thought I was ever

going to be successful you know when I

was playing in Hawk and I thought wow

it's great playing in the band you know

I never thought I would have a number

one record and we'll have you know all

this success all this longevity and all

this legal disputes

no I didn't know Phil I saw him but I

saw him live but I don't I don't ever

profess to know the man

but from what I've what I've been told

from people that knew him I think Phil

would have been happy

that Scott is continuing the Legacy

that he's that he's been doing with the

Thin Lizzy and keeping it

on on a high you know you know so I

think that's really very important when

it comes to branding

[Music]

[Applause]

[Music]

no artist in the history of music has

capitalized on the business of branding

more than kiss

in terms of you know contemporary bands

that have made themselves into a brand I

guess you know kiss prop probably is at

the top of the Heap you know when you

consider all the different licensed

products that are involved with I read

somewhere with several thousand you know

throughout their you know their history

of several thousand things that lent

their name to kiss some of the masters

of

this and of understanding that you know

I mean you'll see solo records go left

and right you'll see that app and it'll

try this they'll try that but in the end

of the day kiss is an entity and that

whole corporate that thing they have

going that the imagery everything that

goes with that brand and I think they're

one of the best at really keeping it's

so tight and so defined and so you know

you take off the makeup and went a

little left and we still sold records

but it was already like the fans are

like

you guys are messing with us stuff here

before they took the makeup off you

didn't know what kiss looked like

without the makeup it was just mystery

but they came back in 96 put the makeup

back on after what was it 13 years of

being naked I guess it's probably one of

the few who stands in sort of A League

of Their Own just because of the makeup

you know and they've already started

that transition of you know hey it

doesn't have to be these four guys it's

about the faces and the makeup and the

costumes and you know they've been

successful with it to some degree the

remaining members of the band you know

they want to continue to exploit the

name then

to them my personal opinion

you kiss record with with members that

aren't Gene Simmons Paul Stanley he's

freely and Peter Chris it's just

doesn't work

for me I love the uh

the Integrity the band and the respect

of the band and the band's name

that I prefer over just

see a lot of people are still

complaining about it's really not being

in the van

there you go and it's been a while you

know what I mean doesn't stop everything

they're doing no you know they'll

complain right but they'll still go to

the shows that's the funny thing about

the kids entity everybody complain

everybody will [ __ ] but it doesn't

matter they'll still go you know and

it's like ah I'm going anyways but I

don't know if it would have the same

impact

but you know what I I think if it gets

to the point where there's nothing else

and it that's where it's got to go

people are probably gonna say it's

either that or no kiss right so it's

like and we love our kiss

foreign

[Music]

classic rock and Heritage rock artists

are currently reaping the rewards more

so now than they did back in their

heyday

numerous bands from the 60s 70s 80s and

even the 90s are reuniting in an effort

to relive their Glory years or in many

cases strictly for the payday

I know a lot of young kids my nephew

he's 10 years old just loves old of me

just loves the classic rock stuff he

doesn't know who was in the band back in

the day he just he gets the record wants

to hear the music wants to go and see a

live concert and he doesn't care you

know because he doesn't know them I'm a

sucker for an original lineup since

seeing like the original guys like when

Guns and Roses got back together you saw

those tourists were selling out like

crazy I give you the example of a band

like Queen you know Roger Taylor and

Brian May they certainly were there

building up that Queen name with Freddie

Mercury now the fact that Freddy passed

you know they didn't pass along with

them that name didn't die with Freddy

they obviously have the you know

entitled right to go on and carry that

name and it's such a strong brand that's

why I bring that up you know whereas you

have purists that are like well no one

can replace Freddy well that's obvious I

mean I don't think that they're trying

to get someone to fit into that mold but

yes they do have a body of work that is

very popular

all over the world no we're not talking

to America they're probably least

popular in America but you know you talk

Europe you talk in South America Japan

you know that is a huge brand and you

know you go to Roger Taylor or Brian May

and say you know well you you know we

don't really think it's right that you

carry that name you know through or you

carry that brand through you know it's

[ __ ] you've got Paul Rogers goes out

with Queen I mean our Freddie Mercury

and Paul Rogers about the most different

vocalist stylistically personality wise

stage presence wise flamboyant versus

not flamboyant I mean that's an

incredible strange thing and I think we

all thought back when Paul Rogers worked

in the firm with Jimmy Page oh this is

going to be magical I mean you've got

one of the great Guitar Gods you've got

one of the great singers and it was a

disaster I thought creatively I mean

there was one or two songs on each album

they did but then you come to the queen

plus Paul Rogers I thought that was the

silliest thing ever I mean Lou Graham

bless him had a problem with his with

his voice

and Kelly Hansen just kills it now is it

is it affecting fauna's level

I don't think I don't think phone will

be any bigger you have bands that change

signals when they're still young and

vibrant and they care to me they really

cared and wanted to make them work Black

Sabbath gets Ronnie James Dio makes

arguably or inarguably one of the

greatest rock records of all time Heaven

and Hell and Dio cannot be a different a

more different singer than than Ozzy was

I mean when John Bush got into Anthrax I

mean to me the sound of white noise is

one of the great rock records of that

era and he sounded nothing like Joey

Belladonna did

you know AC DC with with Brian Johnson

coming in after Bond Scott to me they

sounded nothing alike they made a

seminal record I mean to me these bands

got new singers in who sounded different

but they were still determined it was

about creativity it was about being

relevant and vibrant and they brought

they brought it they brought their a

game I would want to get a singer that

sounded you know like there was a guy

just as a smart thing to do just so the

songs would sound more you know because

if you get a foreign let's say you got

some uh let's see who got the guy from

White Zombie up there singing you know

Foreigner songs you know yeah

I don't think it worked there's enough

real original members and journey than

having a lead singer that's that good

and also if you see the documentary on

the guy he's very likable he's a very

humanistic quality to that film you've

got to root for that guy and so

something like that I think it makes

sense got a great guitar player out

there and you still got a great great

drummer and a great band a great

keyboard player great bass player I mean

it's a great journey he's a great band

but some of these guys would go out and

the band was marginal to begin with and

then they go out with a marginal

replacement of a guy that was marginal

to begin with and then pretty soon

you're like well why am I going to see

this band my opinion about that is I

think it's really up to the artist like

some like you say some bands for example

clear the journey we're looking for kind

of voice I could have could have gone a

totally different direction but they

were looking out they were watching out

for their legacy they knew what their

fans wanted and they wanted to give them

exactly just that right so that's a

respectful decision I saw deep purple in

1980 at Long Beach arena which held 12

14 000 people and it was sold out

and I did discover prior to the show

the Deep Purple was only the original

singer

who sang on two of their minor hits

and didn't contain any other members of

The Heavy band that did Smoke on the

Water and Highway Star and burn and all

that kind of material I'd already bought

the tickets

and I was just kind of puzzled and just

wanted to see

how the hell they could get away with

this and see it in person

and unsurprisingly they sucked big time

and the audience let them know it what

makes a great ban is the chemistry

between a specific lineup

I mean take the Beatles for example take

one of them out it's not the Beatles

anymore you know so that's what made the

Beatles great it was you know John Paul

George and Ringo was saying with Led

Zeppelin Led Zeppelin

is a slightly different because you know

one of the guys died one of the main

guys you know and that was a decent

concert decision not to go out and it's

kept that brand intact they could sell

out the world in a minute if they if

they did a tour

[Applause]

[Music]

some claim that originality and

creativity has become a thing of the

past rather than developing and

producing original material newer

artists are realizing that they can be

successful forming or joining a tribute

down

so we're musical theater that's how I

look at it it's like we're we're

portraying a a character so when I go

out and do the The Foreigner stuff for

when I'm singing with rock fantasy or

whatever and I'm portraying Lou Graham

I'm you know I'm I'm really trying to be

that person I'm trying to sound like him

look like him uh you know move like him

the whole thing because what we want to

do is like you said Foreigner now is

basically a tribute band you know a lot

of these bands now you can't see the

original lineup for whatever reason

either the guys aren't doing it anymore

or like you said there's two factions

so what we try to do is take the band at

their

pinnacle

and do what they did then when Sammy

Hagar got into Van Halen I still will

tell you I think 5150 is one of the

Great Van Halen albums now I think a lot

of these bands they want the close your

eyes test if you close your eyes and you

listen just the new singer sound like

the old singer does with the band period

I would what I ran into was

um the whole thing that we're treated as

a tribute band and when you have three

guys have been in was in Dio's band for

almost 30 years to me it's not a trivia

pound and

but if people think it's a tribute band

you get treated as that and then that

you screwed well cover band can go out

and you know they play and they can

maybe put in their own take on the song

or whatever but attribute band is is a

little more I don't want to use the word

confined but it is it's confined

musically because you are playing

exactly what they wrote and that's what

the people want to see I went to see

Fleetwood Mac back in the 70s

and I knew the lineup was always

fluctuating but it always had Mick

Fleetwood and John McVeigh in it

and I showed up to see them

and these five guys come on stage

and it was the ultimate case of who are

these people

this isn't Fleetwood Mac this is fight

this is Five Guys and they came on and

they they were basically a Fleetwood Mac

cover band but the manager of Fleetwood

Mac had managed to con Mick Fleetwood

and John McVee into signing documents

that said he had the right to the

Fleetwood Mac name I mean look at Richie

Faulkner to me Judas Priest drafted it

in a guy that from a distance looks like

KK Downing and I think Richie's great I

think he's brought a lot of energy to

the band I think a songwriting on the

last record was really Top Flight I

think it's a really credible record but

to me they did that he wears the

sunglasses he plays the Flying V if I'm

50 rows back I think it's KK Downing on

stage and sometimes there's very little

difference between a tribute band and

the real thing a lot of it just comes

down to legalities it's the songs

and if you can

reproduce the music in a fashion that

brings those people back to where they

were when they you know either you know

were in high school or college or

whenever they heard that song for the

first time or their first concert and

you can give them

the memory to that experience I think

that's what people want to have and what

they why they enjoy tribute bands I was

talking with Carmine apathy about uh he

was he was trying to put together this

thing uh where

um all the guys in Rod Stewart's been

you know from different versions of it

we're going out and doing some dates and

he said it was so crazy he said some of

the tribute Rod Stewart bands were

making more money than the original guys

I mean so it's it's such a weird thing

going on out there that you know you

have to kind of like it falls into so

many different categories

um you know and and the other thing too

is uh there's the tribute bands are

making seems to be making more money

than than a lot of the band the newer

bands that are trying to do the drew

things and the good thing about being in

a tribute band you don't have to worry

about writing the next record

artist relationships are a lot like a

marriage and just like in a marriage a

frivolous dispute can end up costing

artists millions of dollars in future

I would love to live in a world where

the members of my band my band sign an

oath of loyalty and we're together

forever and it's the right members and

everybody fits in but reality quality

gets in the way we did this thing called

the orchestra in London at the Brixton

Academy which is supposed to feature

everybody that played in the band well

Dave omitted to invite a few people that

he didn't particularly like which is you

know it's [ __ ] really some guys

don't want to go out and tour anymore

you know and some guys do you know and I

do and I've been to I do a lot of

different things so all the time so I'm

not ready and I wasn't I'm the founding

member band with Andy and I love him but

you know we weren't ready to put the

band down you know I said that's I mean

do I look like I'm ready to put the man

down though no no I just found out the

other day this is how bad the two camps

are I mean I got nothing against them I

mean I know why they fired me and I

would have done the same thing so you

know all is good here but I found out

the best of album went gold like a year

ago in December and nobody ever told me

I never even got one

you know you're going to have lawsuits

you're going to have problems people are

going to be fighting over

you know who's using the name and who

who should not be using the name and all

that stuff but I I don't necessarily

think there's a I don't think it's a

black and white thing and then and and I

think a lot of people agree with that

but it it gets a little complicated and

a lot of times you see bands that you

know someone started the band but

another member comes in and he's a

stronger member and it changes the

dynamic of the band with Venom Inc then

there's the Venom is there any uh

lawsuits or legal issues going on but

between the two camps over the name

lawyer which said please stop and do

this don't use the name and we said what

name

um if you prove that you want the name

then we'll stop we've got another letter

back saying exactly the same thing

please stop music don't use the name we

said we've already asked you if you can

prove that you won the name then we'll

stop and nothing's come back since he

doesn't own the name he doesn't own the

name Venom he doesn't own the logo he

doesn't own anything to do with that he

doesn't want any of the [ __ ] artwork

he's he tells everybody did all the

other work he [ __ ] didn't the courts

are run by ex-lawyers you know a judge

used to be a lawyer so I just keep money

keeps pouring out and these poor guys in

the bands are going I just want to play

you know so I'm glad that you know

initially that was my idea I go look

you'd be Mark Kendall's a great white

I'll be Jack Russell's great white no no

no no no no no we're great white you

know they didn't even want to let me

have Jack Russell's great white they

just didn't want me to have a name at

all and finally they realized is that I

was going to go to court if I had to and

they acquiesced to Jack Russell's great

white I said fine you know that's great

and then we had to go to Whole judge and

stuff for the size of Jack Russell

versus a size a great white when it

changed I think was the the Paul Rogers

thing when he when he uh tried to keep

the rest of the guys from using the name

because he he wasn't in the Band anymore

and the judge said uh well are you are

you willing are you going out to tour

with them or are you going out to tour

as bad company and he said no and he

said well I then you can't really keep

those guys from making a living at it

you know if you're not using the name

then there really isn't an argument here

you know if we're if we're talking about

you using Bad Company and them using Bad

Company that's different but if you're

not using the name if you're just going

out as a solo artist then you can't keep

them from making a living right so uh

and I think that's kind of where things

started to change a little bit and I

think that people should just you know

play music and and don't act like

children because that's what it looks

like these grown men in their 50s

battling in word by word on Twitter and

doing all this you know I don't know man

yeah I I don't I don't know why uh

people

um you know can't can't just get along

from the 80s you know it seems weird

it's like a trend you know

so weird

um and it's sad too because I mean you

know you spent 30 some years I mean I I

hooked up with Mark back in 1977

um when I was 16 to start a band it was

just all the disparity you know we were

sort of on different levels a lot of the

time you know he'd take speed for a week

I would say stay up for a week and then

he'd take down us and go to sleep for a

week and we were all buzzing around

doing things I was managing the bad I

was sort of arranging gigs at the end

you know everybody we had a problem you

know because you know people found it

really hard to get on with it I mean you

know he was always right because of the

speedfree president of Noise Records

Berlin and the president of Noise

Records New York uh they decided that

the band would be better off if we take

the name London off because it's been a

long time it's been too many people and

you know they're not going to take you

serious so let's go to depriest and for

me it was really hard take it because

everyone thought oh [ __ ] he's gonna love

it you know it's called the priest and

blah blah so that started changing the

attitude of the of the band the Dynamics

changed the Creator change the guitar

player changed not so much Brian but

things started getting weird because of

the change to the point where we're on

the road uh we applied to Rock Tour uh

imploded he did this he did that he did

this he did that and I'm like man I

don't want to go to court and gear with

all this everything pulling everything

out everybody's dirty laundry and waving

in front of a jury and whoever else is

going to be there in the Press I just

don't want to do that you know

depositions were bad enough I mean some

real serious feelings got hurt there you

know and that's why we don't get along

if you have one or two or three or four

hits

you've probably got a long career and it

behooves you to really take care of the

business early on and you end up in

scenarios where bands that don't take

care of their business end up with

extraneous members trying to

get control of the name or in some cases

like Molly Hatchet the manager Pat

Armstrong owned the name I mean how does

the manager own the name I mean I don't

get that

[Music]

[Applause]

media coverage and strong imagery has

always been a crucial asset in the

entertainment business especially since

most pop artists are here today and gone

tomorrow in the 70s we have the rise of

news Publications in the 80s and 90s we

experienced the dominance of MTV and

today the media is run by YouTube social

media and TMZ

the only way that the fans of heavy

metal or music back in that time period

the only way that they had to know about

anything that going on within a band is

through a publication you know be it

circus or metal hammer or any one of the

most popular magazine outlets at the

time that's the only outlet that they

had for that particular genre now we got

the internet

everything is cheapened anything goes as

far as publicity and and marketing for

um different acts uh I can't tell you

how important it is if you have name

recognition you have something that

people know how far that goes the

thought process for us was to do

something a little bit different but but

in the same genre we went with white

because it just happened to separate us

from everyone you take a band like

Foreigner who you know they had Lou

Graham as the lead vocalist but

Foreigner was a faceless band for a good

part of that time they came in in the

70s prior to MTV of course they had a

few MTV videos but they had already

established themselves before the video

age so people only recognize Foreigner

for their sound not for their faces so

Foreigner is one of those rare bands

that can get away with replacing almost

all well actually all the original

members and Mick Jones touring with the

band Only periodically but still sell

out a very large venue because people

recognize Foreigner for their songs and

their sound not so much their faces the

reason the 80s bands can't get away with

that is because MTV put a face to the

sound and so people recognize the faces

and the sound look at sequels in

Hollywood I mean why do they make the

same movie part two part three they

already have the recognition they

already put their marketing budget into

something everybody was looking over

their shoulder thinking everybody else

has got got their act together none of

us had our act together you know we all

thought oh well the Damned you know

they've got management and everything

and or the sex pistols and and they're

all thinking oh UK Subs they've got

their act together and the truth is none

of us did we were making it up as we

went along and management was usually in

competent or crooked in the case of some

bands

like Black Sabbath

at the point where they did seventh star

it was supposed to be a Tony iomi solo

album

and the record label I would say

persuaded because I'm sure there was

probably a lot of pressure

on Tony iomi

to to release that album As Black

Sabbath rather than Tony iomi because

the record label knows and so does Tony

and so does the management

that an album and a concert

that's billed as Black Sabbath

is gonna sell exponentially better you

used to tell me you know I could take

any four monkeys put anybody that could

kind of thing in front of here and I

could sell out gigs I could make money

off this band

I go what you tell them you can make

money you could call it great white

without me singing he goes yep next

you're out of your mind man and um when

all this happened I realized I'm going

wow man they could they could actually

do it you know you see so many bands

doing it with one guy a drummer or

something you're going like huh you know

how do you do that you know it's a brand

people say you know they don't know most

people don't get on the websites and

search out to see who's in the band I

got people still coming with me going

yeah I went to see you the other night

man and you weren't there it was some

other little guy singing you know me and

I go yeah that's been five years now he

goes really well I haven't seen you guys

in a while like well clearly

thanks

[Music]

along with touring and Merchandising

publishing is perhaps the most important

aspect of the music business owning the

publishing rights to music that is

continuously aired on radio and

television featured in movies or that

has been sampled by newer artists is a

key component for any Songwriter's

Financial Security I originally was

licensing music that I had written or

co-written with friends but then I

started getting requests for other types

of music that I didn't write like I did

not write country I did not write Latin

I did not write a rap you know but very

quickly I found guys that could write

that material and so that's that was the

Genesis of Master source which I

developed over the course of 15 years

and in 2007 I sold it to Universal

and I continue to run that division for

them for five years after that I was

told at one point that Billy Squire

has never made a big comeback because he

never sold the publishing to his songs

and a lot of those songs like the stroke

have been sampled by hip-hop artists and

he continues to get paid a decent amount

of money on those things I know a lot of

bands uh I think weren't we recorded a

lot of their catalog rat as you

mentioned White Snake Def Leppard

so you know a lot of these bands have

gotten smart to the concept of owning

you know their own recordings so that

they can be in a position to license

them out and earn the master use fees on

these licenses and if his songs like the

stroke

are used in films or on soundtracks or

TV shows he continues to get paid he

never sold this whereas some artists

figured that their time was over and

then nobody was going to be interested

anymore in in what they had done in any

way shape or form took a lump sum payout

probably spent it within the first year

and now they are screwed

increasingly common to experience more

than one version of the same band

this pertains mostly to the 80s hard

rock era where in most cases feuds have

caused members of bands like Queen

strike LA Guns rat great whites as well

as classic 70s rock bands off-winded

Suites to compete for ownership of the

brand do get into the strange situation

with

bands and the brand name where you get

two versions of the band that's out on

the road where you get two of the

principal members who just

after agree to disagree and each has the

right to the name

they'll go out with Hired Hands and go

and play well I tell you I think it's

confused the fans number one because

when you have two different bands you

know going out essentially as the same

band how do you know which one to go to

number one number two a band has to be

run as a business first and foremost

just like anything else

um and so you know I think that it does

get confusing and and unfortunately I

think it really Waters down the brand if

you see one guy doing something with the

band that you know and you've loved with

the same members for so many years and

one guy's doing something with somebody

else and then part of the the band is

doing the same thing over here with with

other people it just doesn't make sense

in my opinion I just want to play music

and express myself probably whatever

means I will talk when I'm quite happy

to go out with this is my version of

Hope when a band that I'm playing with

if a band is going to go out with one

original member I think it's not

necessarily

illegitimate if that member is not the

lead singer I'm kind of getting tired of

lead singers hijacking bands and

becoming the whole bands people forget

that often the original sound of that

band was a partnership take the who for

instance Pete Townsend wrote those

lyrics and wrote those songs

if

Roger Daltrey did an album calling it

The Who without Pete Townsend I think it

would be less legitimate than if Pete

Townsend did the same without Roger

adultery I think because maybe because

I'm not a singer but I I I have a

problem with

that a lot of times I feel like bands

and singers feel like they have

um

oh I'm the singer I'm the voice of the

band so I have a bigger right to the

name and I don't buy that at all I think

it banners the band and everybody has an

equal part of it I've been a slight

change in the name now it's dictators

and wise that's right it's too it's to

have respect for Scott and Andy that are

not playing with us and um it's just to

give it a little new slant of the it's

the dictators it's the songs but it

gives us a new slant so that we can move

on to the Future for our new songs you

know people say about you know oh the

only Venom is Chronos might not snap it

on and you know although that we agree

with that that lineup could never exist

and it that lineup is not as heavy as

this lineup yeah we couldn't get along I

was kind of in the middle trying to keep

things right from one side Jeffers in

the middle trying to keep things ready

for another side

um and at the end of the day basically

just too much if you see us and you see

them it's two different experiences you

know and um I don't I'm not one of those

people that gets upset when somebody

goes yeah man I saw you hear the band

last week and we're here you'll see you

guys I support both bands I'm like

that's great of course we do had to

sleep and witch's Nick's backing band so

we have a what I consider to be a

legitimate

Ensemble on our own we add Nick to it

and it becomes Nick Turner's Hawk that's

a branding thing that's for the lawyers

and the labels to argue over I don't

concern myself too much with that at the

end of the day I'll see this you've got

two guys working together over the bond

here yeah I've worked with another guy

who's been in the band he's worked with

some of the guys that have been in the

band and you've got one guy in another

band at the moment yeah enough said I

always tell bands or artists is it's the

music business and you need to take care

of your business and I know it's not

sexy I know it's not rock and roll to be

concerned with name and likeness in

imaging rights issues ETC but one of the

things when you see some of these bands

have multiple versions out of the band

they probably probably didn't properly

take care of their business

[Music]

social media and online streaming is not

only practical for the music fans it is

also extremely useful for the artists to

self-promote at little or no expense

many claim that technology has gone too

far and that free downloads and

streaming of music is the blame for the

financial downfall of the music industry

still music and software companies are

scrambling to capitalize on the next

wave of Technology the kids these days

are just finding their music you know

different ways and in many in my opinion

a lot of the music is kind of disposable

you know the artists are here today

they're gone later today so what this

represents you know with with

um kind of the digital

digital things that are available now is

a way for you know for Estates to you

know to keep that Legacy going keep that

fire burning another generation or two

so I would say 95 percent of the people

out there

have not adjusted to the new business

model that's out there you know talking

social media you know you're talking no

MTV you're talking you know know Myspace

I mean these are all things that came

and went in a short period of time the

new Star Wars film came out and you have

Carrie Fisher and Peter Cushing uh Peter

Cushing's been dead for 30 years and

they're using them in film and uh they

had to go to his family and they had to

get permission a CGI and use him in that

in that film and same thing with Carrie

Fisher I mean who's to say they don't

put her in a film in The Next Star Wars

Sequel and by the way in the movie she

was 20 years old in the movie right yes

it's all CG so now it's important not

just for the band to own a brand for

actors any celebrity any kind of athlete

anyone that has uh worth the family or

whoever owns the right yeah I mean could

be after the person passes away it's

important for the brand to live on

because it's it's worth value people

said you know oh thank goodness for the

internet man now the playing Field's

leveled man those labels you know blah

blah blah but

it's a label like metal blade you know

that if you bought a record on metal

blade you pretty much know that it was

going to kick some ass in that genre

because Brian Slagle you know agreed to

put her on his label if you bought a

Guitar Hero on a shrapnel album you

pretty much know the guy could play

guitar because I said you know

I want to sign this guy and I wouldn't

have done that if he if it wasn't that

that way obviously are a lot of powerful

tools available to uh to bands these

days where literally somebody in their

living room can gain a worldwide

following and and have you know

literally the eyes and the ears of

millions of people without living

leaving their living room excuse me I

think that's an amazing tool technology

doesn't wait for anybody at all you know

in your lifetime you see the Advent of

say the eight track tape datamax compact

disc

you're now on to digital downloads which

in terms of bandwidth and the way music

is created is one of the worst form

worse mediums that are out there yet you

have huge conglomerate companies uh

Apple if you will they need to have that

file so small to make it able to fit on

their you know phone space wise that

they're going to share the bandwidth off

the top and off the bottom you know so

here you have all this technology as I

said before that doesn't wait for anyone

that's some of the best it's ever been

yet you're still giving the public a

piece of you know art that is squashed

to accommodate the general masses when

you do away with the labels you do away

with a lot of the quality control and

and it's not so wonderful that we only

have a limited time to look on the

internet to try and find the new band to

go into one of these sites and says you

know it sounds like this and you listen

to it it doesn't at all and then you're

out of time there's too many bands uh

I'm making their first record without

doing a period of preparation and a a

journeyman apprenticeship on the road

learning what works and learning from

the feedback of the audience what works

that's how I grew up in the early 70s

that's the bands would get together and

edit themselves so far there's no

self-editing out there anymore

everything you write is gold or so you

think and it really isn't and it just

serves to flood the market with bands

that really shouldn't be making records

not only that the Recording Technology

is also enabled that as well so anybody

can make a record in their bedroom

whether I like that or not the Advent of

the internet I mean took the legs out of

a lot of Industries you know because it

just brought it right to you 24 7. I

mean everything in life now is on demand

instant gratification

[Music]

the industry is constantly changing and

there are no signs of slowing down in

fact Innovative technology and musical

Trends are progressing faster than ever

before which is why having control over

your brand is critical in order to

protect a valuable commodity for the

future

the 70s was a little bit uh much more of

a you know you you put the band together

you grow up together and you you know

and you're very tight you and you

wouldn't think if someone leaves or

maybe the band would break up or but you

know it was very a very tight thing the

idea of making a record was so far

removed from us that we didn't even

consider it but when punk came along all

of these little Indie labels and then it

was a reality so we saw into a little

Indie label and we made a seven inch and

then we got assigned to RCA worldwide

and subsequently had a top 10 album and

lots of top 20 singles and albums

um

and it was a gateway to a bigger world

for us in the early 90s when the grunge

movement came into Vogue it was very

apparent to me that guys like me who

were you know really from the commercial

Hard Rock era born and bred died in the

wall it was going to be really tough for

me to try to get another record deal in

that environment back when when I

started you know late 70s and stuff like

that you had

a manager you had an agent you had a

merchandise person you know you had a

whole team behind you you know promoting

it now it's all inclusive into one

wrapped up into one entity somebody said

reason we don't have rock stars anymore

in a way that's kind of almost true we

don't really have the kind of thing that

we had back in the day they're the pop

world I guess that's pop stars but

it's not the same with these bands

there's not really guys that have that

kind of uh bigger than life you know

Persona I guess because of the

saturation with video there's so much

imagery and stuff by that

already been through keel and my second

band cold sweat which started out being

called Ferrari and I just didn't know if

I had it in me to try to be that salmon

swimming Upstream you know against the

torrent of uh the musical river that was

changing and around the same period of

time I started getting some demos of

mine used in small TV shows small movies

that friends of mine were working on and

that was my little aha moment especially

now I think that's one of the reasons

why bands are not having the importance

that they had back then because back

then the zeppelins the kissed all these

bands they were a brand people the fans

got involved and became a part of this

army they followed that brand and

everything that had to do like Coke

incorporation or anything else you know

and that was the whole thing now it's

like you don't know what's you hear a

song you'll see somebody listen to songs

who is it oh I don't know um I think oh

yeah that's who it is it's like the song

is becoming more important somehow and

it's losing but at the same time the

brands that are out now don't have the

power that they had which is why I think

all those old Brands right now are

becoming actually more powerful now than

they were even with the younger kids

balance put our albums not to make money

and sell record now there's no record

sales it's about getting the the Press

interest to be able to tour off the back

of it you use it as a media Outlet who

really knows what the career Arc of a

band is going to be or an artist career

Arc is going to look like I mean there

are so many bands that I'm sure even

among themselves I mean I remember

talking one time to somebody deeply

involved in the Led Zeppelin camp and I

said why do those guys behave so crazily

on the road or all these incredibly

nefarious or inFAMOUS stories you hear

about bad behavior and he said to me he

said because they all thought it was

going to end in a year or two and they

were all going to go back to being

Masons or construction guys or whatever

and they wanted to have a bunch of

stories to brag to their friends about

and you know that makes complete sense

based on nobody knows what's going to

happen a lot of artists now these days

feel that Indie labels are are even a

better place for them to be over than a

major label the terms are a lot better

they can you know almost custom make

their own record contract with an indie

label you know maybe hire the label just

for this just for that uh you know not

take a lot of money up front uh start

making royalties a lot quicker so to

make money as an original artist and to

make a living at it is even more

difficult now than I think it has ever

been

um and so if you are a musician that has

you know skills and you want to live

indoors you know you find ways

to to make that happen welcome sound

with musicians uh you know learning

about the business side and the legal

side of of the industry it's so

important it's so crucial especially

nowadays you know when you have so many

different forms of content online and

all the media and all of those things

play a crucial role in keeping a brand

together intact and successful

foreign

[Music]

a steady career in the music industry

you need to tour relentlessly today it's

harder than ever for artists to book

profitable tours leading to more package

tours and select weekend stents at Rock

festivals fairs casinos and the

occasional cruise ships

it's not overplaying the market it's

keeping it special keeping the name

alive you know you get people that don't

like it but then don't come to the shows

simple as that you end up in these

scenarios where for somebody like

Blackmore to get a bunch of young kids

you know they're going to be able to

bragu I played with Richie Blackmore and

they'll they'll do whatever he says

they'll jump through every hoop they'll

accept

terrible accommodations on the road

they'll accept a low per diem if you

have a large demographic and you're

you're you know friendly in that manner

you can play a lot of different places a

lot of different places and again

there's you know there's a much better

much better payday than trying to you

know sell 100 tickets to The Whiskey on

a you know Thursday night at 11 o'clock

or something they did not want to pull

Leonard's skin and off the road

because if there was Leonard skin it any

version any members on the road playing

those classic songs

then people would hear that

either go and buy back buy the the

albums or download the songs

and that the Estates of any members

whether it's Leonard Skynyrd or

Jefferson Starship

they're gonna get royalties off the

merchandise

so it's in the ex members interests or

they're Estates to keep a version of the

band on the road because it generates

money

for the original members and or their

Estates the

kosher ticketing firms are now having

their own secondary ticketing sites

where a show where a toy is sold out

within an hour

but you can get eighty percent of the

tickets for that tour for sale three

times the price on a secondary ticketing

site

that's that's not sold out we just did

every gig we could get you know we just

played everywhere played played free

concerts played uh benefits played in

prison a couple of times

um just doing everything anything we

could get and um making ourselves

generally available and supportive of

different causes with Angel uh if we

decided to put that together I'm sure

with a new album I'm sure if we did some

dates that everyone would want to hear

us do the old stuff as opposed to the

new stuff where I remember when I first

started going to see concerts you would

go to to see you know them play the

newest album you know when I went to see

Zeppelin I always wanted to go hear them

play the newest album that I didn't want

to hear the first album I already heard

that you know but nowadays it's not like

that so uh yeah it's very difficult to

figure it out but you know uh it is a

whole different animal you've got

corporate buyers for a lot of these acts

the bread and butter has become playing

the corporate show the money's

incredible they have a thousand sales

people and a drunken frenzy in a room

and here comes you know this band who

sounds just like all the hits they

remember from the 80s or 90s or what

have you and everybody has a great time

no matter how rich you are if you're

buying U2 tickets and it's costing you a

thousand bucks for two two tickets

you're not gonna you've got no money for

the rest of that month that you're

spending on entertainment to go and see

your b c and d level ax

so that's why packaging those b c and d

level acts is very important and having

the the the the name is is all important

especially when it comes to when you're

an older active you're a classic rock

act same with Bobby did with rat

you know um the casinos

um

what they just all they want is that

name on the Marquee

the castle music fan has the unique

ability to impact the career of

contemporary artists through social

media websites and blog Pages you know

people really want to go there and

relive their youth and have a good time

to me

I think if they feel that it sounds like

they want it to sound they don't want to

have these eight-minute exploratory jams

in the middle of their favorite song

they want to hear the hits the way they

know the hits I think it's hard on a lot

of bands because you know you get these

fans especially on social media that

come in and they start you know oh it's

you know no fill no Lizzy we we've had

it with Thin Lizzy a lot and you know

and why isn't Brian Robertson in the

band why isn't snowy white in the band

why isn't you know I feel like going you

know

um why aren't you with your first wife

well because I hated her

yeah but she was a lot hotter than your

current wife yeah

you know so can you please get with your

first wife because that's what I want

you know no of course you know things

happen as far as the fans I think the

fans want to hear the songs if you can

if you can present the songs in a good

way and you can perform them well I

think you're serving the fans well

because the fans want to hear that and

fans don't necessarily even if they know

uh they want to be entertained I think

at some point you have to realize you

have what you have and if it's no longer

viable

um and I guess really that can be an

argument what is viable right but here's

the thing and and this relates back to

the law of heavy metal history it's what

the true hardcore Die Hard fans really

want and that's where it affects the

brand it's interesting how that works

people it seems like the fans gravitate

to this brand and somehow that brand

means something to them and becomes

really really important and it's almost

like they Rebel

when you take that and try to dilute it

in some kind of a way

[Music]

thank you

keeping up with technology and the

entertainment business is a major

challenge new innovation and

modernization is often met with

controversy from fans and critics alike

using today's technology a hologram of a

deceased artist can keep spirit and

branding rights alive

we have the Hologram that we're working

on right now now talk about for a second

a hologram you know that's got to be a

really bizarre kind of a thing to do but

at the same time it is extending the

legacy of course and

um I worked on the one that we debuted

at the wacon and how did it go it was I

worked on it for over a year with the

people and I didn't think it was going

to affect me but when I actually saw him

up on stage with his own band because

it's his real live band playing with him

I cried the record company cried and all

the fans cried it was amazing everything

has been done so respectfully and they

they they are very

um a

determine Simon and Craig and and

everybody about being respectful to

Ronnie and pay respect I don't think

Ronnie would have had a any problems

with anything because that they're all

about that even when it comes to

choosing the songs what kind of gigs

would do everything is all about

let's make sure this is something that

he would like let's say 10 years from

now there's a technology and they could

take all the video footage of say David

Bowie and recreate Ziggy Stardust like

it's a brand new concert everything

remastered His Image well someone's

getting paid for that they own that

brand yeah David Bowie's dead so they're

gonna take that image on some future

technology and maybe imagine Square

Garden they're going to have a concert

with David Bowie doing Ziggy start us

and they're going to get say 50 bucks a

ticket you know I mean it's brand is

huge I'm a contractor and I build a lot

of recording studios in studio

environment types of places so I got

hired to build or to convert an old

theater in Hollywood Boulevard into a

hologram theater and uh you know nuts

and bolts thing it's it's uh it's hard

to get all that that gear is insane that

they use but their first show is going

to be Billy Holiday

playing on stage with the live band the

Hologram of Billy Holiday is going to be

playing that's just the beginning they

know that they're gonna they've got uh

it's the same people that own the um the

technology that did the uh the Tupac

Shakur hologram is pioneering stuff

Elvis has done it I know that but hey

see the difference between Lemmy and

Ronnie they were touchable Elvis was

Untouchable you could you could go and

say hello to Lemmy any night down the

rainbow he wouldn't you know there was

nobody there was no bodyguards around it

was Ronnie Ronnie would always have time

for his fans you could you know if you

went to a Dio show and you wanted to

meet Ronnie there was no issue with that

you know it works for Elvis in the Vegas

sort of thing because I think it's cool

in that because it's just an illusion

for another show whether it works for

um rock and rollers that we knew and

loved

on a sort of more down to earth level if

that makes sense it's got to be you know

has got to be seen I the problem I have

with it right now totally honestly is

the cost of producing that

versus how they're going to

put it out there and get the revenue

back I don't know yet it's expensive to

I mean right now the technology is

pretty big like the hardware is

sizable Machinery that that they need

and it's it's interesting how they how

they have these uh you know under stage

cameras and then overstage cameras and

there's all these uh there's spatial

requirements that have to be fulfilled

you know a certain width in order to get

a live sized person right but I'm sure

that'll all get um you know

they'll figure it out it'll get

miniaturized and smaller and smaller you

could have Metallica play in your in

your bedroom personally I think it's a

cool thing you know I mean the world has

to evolve you know what I mean the whole

hologram thing is an amazing

um thing I think in general and of

course if you can't see the people if

they're gone they're gone to me it's

interesting I'd like to see how that

develops and how that

how that fits into the future of the

rock concert events you know what I mean

the whole the whole experience

I don't know I've never seen a concert

I've never been to a concert where I've

seen a hologram so I would definitely

like to see that I don't know who it

will be with but I would like to see

something like that and and then maybe I

will have more

maybe I'll have a better opinion about

it right but uh right from the get-go I

wouldn't be negative about it being that

I was uh I I lived during the era of the

real thing the real deal uh I guess you

could say oh this is just a cheap

rip-off a cheap knockoff so I'm gonna go

take the other side of the coin here

that if if they're doing this and fans

who were not alive during that era did

not have the opportunity to experience

that I think it's kind of a cool chance

for them to see that performer live

figuratively uh to understand the

greatness of what made that artist great

for fans who actually saw the real thing

in person it seems like a cheap knockoff

so there's kind of like a yin and a Yang

to the whole thing people that didn't

really know the original performer or

who were even old enough in in that day

and age could benefit from that I as a

you know backing member of any band or

you know I've played with some high

profile folks that

you know to me it would be just plain

strange to be backing up this hologram

that's projected up there it's like you

know well at least you know there

wouldn't be any canceled shows I mean

they'll show up on time you don't have

to pay that person you know so I mean I

suppose there's some perks to it I would

feel weird about putting something like

that out there uh

and but that's just me I mean I know the

fans really love it and I know it's a

cool thing and I'm really not in a

position to really comment on it but you

know it's just something that feels a

little

I don't know you know it feels like

science has gone too far I mean you can

never replace the real thing that I

don't want to sound negative but

um but at the same time

that's the closest thing is you're gonna

ever gonna get to friends or Ronnie or

David Bowie whoever you

so I think it's a cool thing and if it

can be done like this company we work

with are amazing and if if you do it

that way and they keep improving

everything

um I think people will enjoy it you know

my personal opinion I think it needs to

be balanced with hey let's bring out

real singers as well so obviously now

with the technology advances and the

Advent of the Hologram there's another

whole new side of this debate is these

ideas Ronnie James Dio Tupac being on

stage is a hologram I mean David Bowie

Michael Jackson now there's talk about

Lemmy

I don't know I mean to me it's a little

creepy it's a little it's not even

interesting to me personally but then

again I'm not the person that's going to

um necessarily go buy a ticket to go see

a hologram exhibit I mean I'd rather see

somebody still living and sweating and

breathing I never got to see Phil Lana

he died before you know uh finally

didn't come around to Buffalo New York

very often you know and I never got to

see Leonard Skynyrd you know I was 15

when Lynyrd Skynyrd died would I'd love

to see that band in front of me or you

know maybe in a virtual uh virtual world

situation yeah so as a fan I kind of get

it too you know and I think if it's done

Tastefully it's done respectfully it's

done obviously you know those who

control the Estates you know have to

have creative control over to make sure

you know these characters are not doing

anything profane or doing anything that

would tarnish the Legacy you know of the

artist I don't know which is more

creepier when I go to see a band a

tribute band rest up like a band that

I've seen live or to see a hologram but

I would I I gotta tell you though I

would be interested to see what the

Hologram looks like Revenge yeah would

be very nostalgic for new fans would be

awesome to see a hologram you know guys

in their Prime you know with the real

voice and you know it'd be great you can

see the Viewpoint of the the people that

that own the you know the IP you know uh

the intellectual property if you're a

deal if you're if you're a steward of

the Bowie you know trust uh that this

represents an opportunity for you to

keep milking the cow I guess you know

maybe that's too harsh of a term but uh

you know it's an opportunity for you to

to continue the Legacy onto another

generation perhaps because as we know

now uh you know record sales in general

are decreasing so how are you going to

reach a new generation of fans if that's

the only option it's great and I think

that they're doing really interesting

things with the with this hologram

something and I'm actually excited to go

see some of it you're right it gets a

chance to bring back all those great

experiences and things that people you

know wouldn't see

who knows what the future holds perhaps

a day will come when Brands will

completely take over the bands and human

interaction will be superseded by

artificial intelligence

Classic Rock Radio is as strong now as

it ever was

and when these when these you know what

a legacy to pass down to your kids

if you if you are in the trademark of a

name and have the songs and I think it's

going to be like Gene Simmons has talked

about it many times franchising kiss out

um I think Ricky Medlock did it with

Blackfoot I believe when he got done

younger guys to play the music I didn't

see I didn't know what it was like but

at the end of the day you get these huge

names you know um and whoever owns that

branding

could that could go on for years the

brand is definitely Brandon Mendenhall

and our job is really to help that brown

grow you know it's his dream and we're

there to support it and bring it up as

much as we can at the same time we're

here living our Dream helping him live

his now we're at us we're at a place

where if the five of us don't do it

together it's probably not going to

happen so I think um it's it's got to be

something that the five of us sit down

talk about and try and work it out

logistically

because everyone has different lives and

everything now and uh and everyone's

doing different things so if everyone

can make time to do it we might do it if

not then I you know we're happy with

where we're at with it get an agreement

together so you know what happened when

somebody leaves or quits somebody gets

fired God forbid somebody the band dies

now you're in business with that

person's estate or their spouse or

whatever I mean does a band really want

to be in business with the wife of one

of their former members probably not the

two things that count in the music

industry

being totally original or being better

than everybody else and it's hard to be

better than everybody else because

there's a lot of talent out there so be

different bring it I'll rest when I'm

dead

with no knowledge knowledge that I was

ever alive and I'm going to make the

most of this I'm gonna do it till I die

and that's just the way it is hopefully

I die on stage

foreign

[Music]

but are you deeply involved in the

blending yeah yeah I'm involved in

everything with it I started I actually

made my first wine when I was about 13.

and I made a yeah kind of learned about

it and I've always been kind of

fascinated with the chemistry of it you

know and then through traveling I've

tried a lot of different wines and kind

of you know discovered what I what I

really like and what I don't like and

decided to kind of lean in that

direction as a hobby and it turned out

to be something that I really like doing

I'm on the floor of the New York Stock

Exchange and joining me today is Dave

Mustaine so now speaking about wine and

beer you are actually a businessman you

have your Vineyard craft beer tell our

viewers about this well we've been

really fortunate in 2014 and I started

our wine business when I played with the

San Diego Symphony and and it wasn't

really something we thought we were

going to end up doing it just took off

and the beer company was something that

I did for myself because during the day

I don't want a glass of wine I wanted a

beer so we talked to a couple people

with the trip to partnership for us and

and this is a gold medal beer we won a

gold medal at the Chicago International

Beer Festival you have like 9 000 little

products here man and I now I hear wine

and I see this beer thing here you know

this looks great yeah there's a coffee

stout here coffee Hydra Hydra beer asked

if they could Infuse our urban legend uh

coffee into their beer and I'm told it's

kind of like say like a Guinness ale you

know what I mean so it's uh uh it's got

thick and creamy and got some depth yeah

probably get you drunk and keeps you

hyper stuff like that whatever works

right you know I mean you gotta do you

do you're covering all the face

you get them coming and going with the

coffee in the beer all aguiro rock and

roll coffee cup no that's that's what we

do you know that's what you do British

heavy metal band Iron Maiden is

releasing a new line of beer the

announcement of the belgian-style beer

called Harrow or July 4th in a statement

I made in frontman Bruce Dickinson and

Robertson's Master Brewer Martin weeks

we'll be collaborating on the project

they are called by volume of the Belgian

style hallowed will be at six percent

regarding Brewing the Belgian beer

Dickinson said quote and a big fan of

Belgian beers so I've jumped at the

chance to brew my own this isn't I

maiden's first foray into beer making

back in 2013 the group released their

first beer called Trooper according to

billboard Cooper has sold 15 million

pints since then when I brought the rum

out and got my distribution Across

America you know my whole region was to

turn people on to that part of my

lifestyle man put on a friggin pair of

shorts from flip-flops you don't need

shoes and whip up a drink turn on the

damn sprinkler if you have to man and

sit around in the bathing suit and I'm

telling you here's your vacation

[Music]

was my only teacher and I was his only

friend

[Music]

[Music]