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Nobody joins a cult.
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Nobody joins something
they think is going to hurt them.
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You join a religious organization,
you join a political movement,
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and you join with people
that you really like.
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I think in everything
that I tell you about Jim Jones,
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there is going to be a paradox.
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Having this vision
to change the world,
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but having this
whole undercurrent of dysfunction
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that was underneath that vision.
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Some people see
a great deal of God in my body.
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They see Christ in me, a hope of glory.
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He said, “If you see me as your friend,
I’ll be your friend.
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As you see me as your father,
I’ll be your father.”
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He said, “If you see me as your God,
I’ll be your God.”
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Jim Jones talked about
going to the Promised Land
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and then, pretty soon, we were seeing
film footage of Jonestown.
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Rice, black-eyed peas, Kool-Aid.
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We all wanted to go.
I wanted to go.
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Peoples Temple truly had the potential
to be something big
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and powerful and great,
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and yet for whatever reason,
Jim took the other road.
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On the night of the 17th,
it was still a vibrant community.
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I would never have imagined that
24 hours later, they would all be dead.
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Die with a degree of dignity!
Don’t lay down with tears and agony!
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It’s nothing to death.
It’s just stepping over into another plane.
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Don’t, don’t be this way.
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I vividly remember the first time
that I met Jim Jones.
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My sister Carolyn
had invited my parents
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and my younger sister and I
to visit her in Potter Valley.
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We came and there was
this strange man in her house,
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and her husband wasn’t there.
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Annie and I were sent out
to go on a walk.
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When we came back,
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something had happened.
Something terrible had happened,
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because everyone had red eyes
except for Jim Jones.
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We didn’t really get the story
until we were in the car going home.
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He was carrying on an adulterous
relationship with my sister.
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And because his wife
couldn’t relate to him as a wife...
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that Carolyn
had taken over that role.
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Everything was plausible,
except in retrospect,
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the whole thing seems
absolutely bizarre.
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The first time
I visited Peoples Temple,
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I drove at the urging of a friend,
a co-worker, to Redwood Valley.
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We all got suited down,
neck-tied and everything.
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You know, and we were sharp.
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As soon as I walked into
the San Francisco temple, I was home.
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I was one of those kind of guys...
that I used drugs.
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I was an alcoholic.
I drunk alcohol and stuff like that.
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00:04:04,635 --> 00:04:09,526
And... and all these people
that were like my age,
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they were clean.
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Before I came here,
I was taking LSD, marijuana,
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every type of dope
you can imagine.
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Without our pastor, Jim Jones,
to teach me the right way,
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I would not be in college right now.
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And for me, that was like,
“Wow, man.” I liked that.
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Thank you very much, thank you.
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There was an interracial group.
The choir was interracial
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and they used to sing this song:
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“Never heard a man
speak like this man before.
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Never heard a man
speak like this man before.
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All the days of my life,
ever since I been born,
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I never heard a man
speak like this man before.”
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After they sang one or two songs,
the whole place was lit up.
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00:05:08,761 --> 00:05:10,788
The Peoples Temple services,
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they had life, they had soul,
they had power.
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We were alive in those services.
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I would be up jumping in the balcony
and clapping my hands.
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If you came in as a stranger
and didn’t know anything about the politics,
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00:05:32,751 --> 00:05:37,542
you were thinking you were entering
an old-time religion service.
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By the time Jones did come out
to do his speaking,
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the table had already been set.
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I represent divine principle,
total equality,
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a society where people own
all things in common.
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Where there is no rich or poor.
Where there are no races.
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Wherever there is people struggling
for justice and righteousness,
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there I am.
And there I am involved.
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What he spoke about were
things that were in our hearts.
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The government was not
taking care of the people.
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00:06:10,802 --> 00:06:14,540
There were too many poor people
out there. There were poor children.
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The world is like a human family.
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The little child may not be able to go
and draw a paycheck,
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but the father
guarantees the childcare.
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00:06:21,118 --> 00:06:23,536
The grandmother
may not be able to work anymore,
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but the father and mother
guarantees her the right to live.
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Every single person felt
that they had a purpose there
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and that they were
exceptionally special.
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And that is how he brought
so many young college kids in,
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so many older black women in,
so many people from diverse backgrounds
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who realized that there was
something bigger than themselves
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that they needed to be involved in...
and that Jim Jones offered that.
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I went home, told mom, “You know what,
this is the right church for me.”
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It was the next week that I became
a member of Peoples Temple.
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There’s a little town in Indiana.
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The moment I think of it
a great deal of pain comes.
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As a child I was undoubtedly
one of the poor in the community,
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never accepted.
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Born as it were
on the wrong side of the tracks.
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I grew up with Jimmy Jones.
We started first grade together.
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My brothers used to
go over to Jimmy’s house
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and hung around his barn,
which was where he played.
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00:08:02,344 --> 00:08:06,466
From the time I was five years old,
I thought Jimmy was a really weird kid,
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there was something not quite right.
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He was obsessed with religion;
he was obsessed with death.
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My brothers came back
with stories of him
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conducting funerals
for small animals that had died.
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A friend of mine told me that
he saw Jimmy kill a cat with a knife.
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Well having a funeral for it
was a little strange,
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killing the animal was very strange.
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Jimmy’s father did not work,
did not have a job, and was a drunk.
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Jim’s mother had to work
in order to support the family.
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And he was kind of
left to his own devices.
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Kind of the kid who ran wild
in the street, you know what I mean?
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Listen, he was in a
dysfunctional family.
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We got a nice name for it now.
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00:09:00,780 --> 00:09:02,756
But when you live
in a dysfunctional family,
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00:09:02,786 --> 00:09:04,560
you think it’s normal.
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Feeling as an outcast,
I’d early developed a sensitivity
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for the problems of blacks.
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I brought the only black
young man in the town home
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and my dad said that
he could not come in
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and I said, “Then I shan’t,”
and I did not see my dad for many years.
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00:09:37,708 --> 00:09:42,772
In Lynn, Jim Jones looked for community
and couldn’t find community,
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in Lynn as a town... which had a
population of what, a thousand people?
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00:09:47,713 --> 00:09:51,562
But he did find community
in the Pentecostal Church.
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He saw that they were
a surrogate home.
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He saw that the preachers were like
father figures to their congregations.
127
00:10:05,218 --> 00:10:11,800
And that role represented power
over the lives of your congregation.
128
00:10:16,580 --> 00:10:20,140
Jim Jones started out
on the revival preaching circuit,
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00:10:20,141 --> 00:10:23,141
learning the ropes of
being a preacher.
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00:10:23,204 --> 00:10:25,610
And once he started doing that,
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it became clear that
he could get a following.
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00:10:28,907 --> 00:10:33,281
The first time I met Jim Jones
was Easter 1953.
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My mother-in-law, Edith Cordell,
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00:10:36,531 --> 00:10:39,631
had a monkey and it hung itself
135
00:10:39,671 --> 00:10:41,626
and she wanted to
replace the monkey.
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00:10:41,627 --> 00:10:43,827
So she looked in the Indianapolis Star,
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00:10:43,908 --> 00:10:48,790
and in that Indianapolis Star
was Jim Jones’s ad
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00:10:48,828 --> 00:10:51,624
that he had some monkeys to sell.
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00:10:51,931 --> 00:10:55,106
So it was through that
that she met Jim Jones,
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00:10:55,159 --> 00:10:57,299
and came back saying that
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he had invited her to church
this next Sunday.
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It didn’t make no difference
what color you were.
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It was everybody welcome there
in that church
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00:11:14,439 --> 00:11:16,549
and he made it very plain
from the platform.
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00:11:16,740 --> 00:11:18,423
We had some people
that disagreed with Jimmy.
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00:11:18,424 --> 00:11:21,324
They got up in the audience
and they said they disagreed with him.
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00:11:22,354 --> 00:11:26,134
They did not like this
integration part of the services.
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We did ask people to leave the church
one night because of that.
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I was the first Negro child
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adopted by a Caucasian family
in the state of Indiana.
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00:11:39,604 --> 00:11:44,151
Jim and Marceline actually
went to adopt a Caucasian child.
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The story goes that
I was crying real loud
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and it drew attention
for Marceline to come over,
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00:11:50,642 --> 00:11:54,938
and once she picked me up,
I stopped crying.
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My family was a template
of a rainbow family.
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We had an African American,
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00:12:03,137 --> 00:12:06,637
we had two American Asian
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00:12:06,837 --> 00:12:10,830
and we had his
natural son, homemade.
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00:12:11,639 --> 00:12:17,141
Jim was breaking new ground
in race relations
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00:12:17,226 --> 00:12:23,107
at a time when the ground was
still pretty hard against that.
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00:12:23,778 --> 00:12:28,433
Jim Jones was hated
and despised by some people,
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particularly
in the white community.
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There had been pressures on him
to leave Indianapolis.
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00:12:41,164 --> 00:12:46,717
He thought that Indianapolis was
too racist of a place for him to be,
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00:12:46,897 --> 00:12:48,835
and he wanted to
take his people out.
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00:12:50,542 --> 00:12:54,812
California is perceived to be
a very progressive state.
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This would be the place to
implement the dream of racial equality.
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00:13:01,289 --> 00:13:04,320
Not Indianapolis,
which seems hopeless,
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00:13:04,321 --> 00:13:07,844
but California, which
seems to be the Promised Land.
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00:13:08,420 --> 00:13:10,608
He chose Ukiah
in northern California,
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about 90 miles north
of San Francisco,
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00:13:13,316 --> 00:13:16,943
because there was an article
in Esquire Magazine that said that
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Ukiah was one of the nine places
in the world that
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00:13:19,769 --> 00:13:22,269
in the event of
thermonuclear attack,
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00:13:22,270 --> 00:13:23,970
people would survive.
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00:13:25,614 --> 00:13:31,361
I told Edith, “If you follow Jimmy
to California, you’re crazy.”
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00:13:32,938 --> 00:13:35,941
So what did Jimmy do,
but took her to a psychiatrist
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00:13:35,942 --> 00:13:38,142
and sent me a certified letter
179
00:13:38,251 --> 00:13:41,968
that she is of sound mind,
and she is not crazy.
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00:13:43,772 --> 00:13:46,386
I was there the afternoon
that Edith drove away.
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00:13:47,767 --> 00:13:50,530
I didn’t know
I’d never see her again.
182
00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:08,733
The move to California
was really fun.
183
00:14:08,852 --> 00:14:14,408
There were about twelve to fifteen cars
driving across United States
184
00:14:14,637 --> 00:14:16,222
and making that journey
185
00:14:17,303 --> 00:14:20,114
to a place that none of us knew,
186
00:14:20,606 --> 00:14:24,617
you know, none of us
could even imagine.
187
00:14:25,949 --> 00:14:28,998
We were going to California,
our new world.
188
00:14:33,867 --> 00:14:37,110
When I saw Redwood Valley,
I couldn’t believe my eyes
189
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because it was like a paradise.
It was rural. It was green.
190
00:14:41,344 --> 00:14:43,985
There were grape vines everywhere,
191
00:14:44,138 --> 00:14:46,251
and I fell in love.
192
00:14:46,382 --> 00:14:49,645
I said "This is got to be
a perfect way to live."
193
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We started with about
a hundred and forty-one people
194
00:14:55,725 --> 00:14:59,940
and from that, we’ve grown
to a very thriving congregation.
195
00:14:59,950 --> 00:15:03,760
We have about every level of society,
all socio-economic income strata,
196
00:15:03,843 --> 00:15:08,257
professional down to the ordinary
field worker, field laborer.
197
00:15:08,395 --> 00:15:11,938
Really, it’s beautiful to see that
all these divisions have been broken down...
198
00:15:11,939 --> 00:15:15,680
not only race, but any differences
of economic position.
199
00:15:15,681 --> 00:15:20,219
The focus of Jim’s message
was taken from the Bible,
200
00:15:20,873 --> 00:15:24,148
where Jesus in his earliest days
201
00:15:25,266 --> 00:15:29,239
told people to sell all things
and have all things in common.
202
00:15:29,341 --> 00:15:34,552
Jesus Christ had the most revolutionary
teachings to be said, in the sense that
203
00:15:34,553 --> 00:15:36,772
he said to feed the hungry,
clothe the naked,
204
00:15:36,830 --> 00:15:38,459
take in the stranger,
205
00:15:38,460 --> 00:15:41,460
administer to those who are
widows and afflicted in their suffering.
206
00:15:41,531 --> 00:15:44,754
And we feel that no one really
tried Christianity too effectively
207
00:15:44,755 --> 00:15:46,264
in the Judeo-Christian tradition.
208
00:15:46,857 --> 00:15:49,241
The membership
increased substantially
209
00:15:49,334 --> 00:15:54,300
as he procured
more and more Greyhound buses
210
00:15:54,307 --> 00:15:57,141
and fixed them up,
211
00:15:57,142 --> 00:16:01,500
and every summer
he began this cross-country tour.
212
00:16:02,261 --> 00:16:05,942
The purpose of the bus trips
was to spread Jim’s beliefs
213
00:16:05,999 --> 00:16:08,843
about socialism and the world,
214
00:16:08,910 --> 00:16:12,782
and how we can live a better life
and about an integrated lifestyle.
215
00:16:12,998 --> 00:16:18,759
But behind that, I think it was to
gather more members for the Temple.
216
00:16:28,785 --> 00:16:31,172
I decided not to go to Vietnam,
217
00:16:31,226 --> 00:16:35,147
and I was just at the point of
what am I going to do with myself?
218
00:16:35,211 --> 00:16:39,406
I heard Jim Jones was
going to be coming to Philadelphia,
219
00:16:39,546 --> 00:16:42,259
and coming to
Benjamin Franklin High School.
220
00:16:42,847 --> 00:16:44,895
And I went Wednesday night
and I listened to him,
221
00:16:44,896 --> 00:16:48,896
and I was impressed by
how it was such an interracial group
222
00:16:48,897 --> 00:16:50,297
and people were really happy.
223
00:16:50,370 --> 00:16:52,382
You got nothing to lose.
Who else is going to stand
224
00:16:52,383 --> 00:16:54,483
and look you in the face and say,
“Come and I’ll give you a job.
225
00:16:54,552 --> 00:16:56,724
Come and I’ll give you a home.
226
00:16:56,819 --> 00:17:00,430
Come and I’ll give you a bed?”
“But I’ve got nothing but a pension.”
227
00:17:00,496 --> 00:17:04,470
“Go and leave your pension behind,”
who else will tell you that?
228
00:17:04,158 --> 00:17:06,982
Who’ll tell you,
“I’ll put you on that bus tomorrow?”
229
00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,663
I heard Jim Jones talking
about equality among races,
230
00:17:10,784 --> 00:17:15,820
what it’s like living in California,
in the Redwood Valley,
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00:17:15,821 --> 00:17:18,521
the good works that they’re doing.
232
00:17:18,590 --> 00:17:20,897
Things that, like,
I wanted to get involved with,
233
00:17:20,898 --> 00:17:23,198
but didn’t even know
where to make an entrée.
234
00:17:23,318 --> 00:17:25,907
And all of a sudden,
the answer was there.
235
00:17:25,976 --> 00:17:31,100
Somebody is gonna get on the
freedom train in Philadelphia!
236
00:17:31,614 --> 00:17:35,583
He was there for three evenings,
and the third evening
237
00:17:35,645 --> 00:17:38,483
I went off on the bus
and came to California.
238
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:52,344
When I joined Peoples Temple
in the spring of 1966,
239
00:17:52,423 --> 00:17:55,630
there were exactly
eighty-one members.
240
00:17:55,695 --> 00:18:00,732
Five years later,
an extended family of eighty people
241
00:18:01,606 --> 00:18:06,176
had become
an organization of thousands.
242
00:18:11,394 --> 00:18:14,559
Peoples Temple
really was a black church.
243
00:18:14,637 --> 00:18:19,650
It was led by a white minister,
but in terms of the worship service,
244
00:18:19,791 --> 00:18:23,734
commitment to the social gospel,
its membership,
245
00:18:23,735 --> 00:18:26,435
it functioned completely
like a black church.
246
00:18:26,510 --> 00:18:29,191
He talked black.
He really understood it.
247
00:18:29,192 --> 00:18:32,592
He understood how it was
to be treated differently.
248
00:18:32,658 --> 00:18:35,327
And that’s from his roots
coming out of Lynn.
249
00:18:35,399 --> 00:18:37,110
When people heard Jim,
250
00:18:37,111 --> 00:18:41,111
they didn’t look upon him
as being a white preacher, you know.
251
00:18:41,112 --> 00:18:44,412
People didn’t look at Jim
as being white. He was not white.
252
00:18:44,413 --> 00:18:46,113
He was just their preacher.
253
00:18:46,189 --> 00:18:48,516
You going to go to Texas with me
when I have that campaign?
254
00:18:48,587 --> 00:18:53,549
I was just wondering whether
I could go or not. I would like to go.
255
00:18:53,581 --> 00:18:56,241
Why of course you’d go,
you went to Mexico with me.
256
00:18:56,293 --> 00:19:00,241
As older people joined,
it took a year or so
257
00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:04,462
and he’d convince the people that
he was doing so much in the community
258
00:19:04,527 --> 00:19:08,183
and so why not rather than
just tithe your twenty percent,
259
00:19:08,334 --> 00:19:13,400
why not sell your home,
give the money to the church?
260
00:19:13,830 --> 00:19:15,548
And that is what people began to do.
261
00:19:15,624 --> 00:19:19,229
Now in this church,
what have we done in a short time?
262
00:19:19,329 --> 00:19:24,480
We have four senior citizens’ homes
that are the most innovating,
263
00:19:24,528 --> 00:19:26,592
the most beautiful you want to see.
264
00:19:26,658 --> 00:19:30,325
They had their own rooms,
they had every need taken care of,
265
00:19:30,403 --> 00:19:35,122
they had their food provided.
They were well looked after.
266
00:19:35,484 --> 00:19:39,473
Now my home is stone block and
there’s not a piece of new furniture in it.
267
00:19:39,512 --> 00:19:43,177
But our senior citizen homes,
they’re elegant. And that’s beautiful.
268
00:19:43,249 --> 00:19:46,749
They were giving their life’s money
and savings to the church,
269
00:19:46,822 --> 00:19:48,422
but in exchange,
270
00:19:48,423 --> 00:19:51,906
the church was agreeing
to take care of them in the community,
271
00:19:51,962 --> 00:19:54,100
not just in a nursing home.
272
00:20:04,217 --> 00:20:07,643
Well it got to the point where
there were so many duties in the Temple
273
00:20:07,686 --> 00:20:10,909
that some people
had to become full time.
274
00:20:10,981 --> 00:20:13,279
So when you were full-time Temple,
275
00:20:13,331 --> 00:20:15,559
you worked about
twenty hours a day.
276
00:20:15,579 --> 00:20:18,872
My week kind of ran like this,
I’d work my regular job on Mondays,
277
00:20:18,922 --> 00:20:21,279
you know, eight to five.
Then, I’d work on files.
278
00:20:21,318 --> 00:20:23,947
There were people
who ran rest homes.
279
00:20:23,983 --> 00:20:26,521
There were animals to be taken care of.
There were the publications.
280
00:20:26,584 --> 00:20:28,575
Everybody had a job.
281
00:20:28,624 --> 00:20:30,799
Wednesday night we’d have
a meeting in Redwood Valley
282
00:20:30,839 --> 00:20:33,519
and I’d go to the meeting for,
until probably 10 or 10:30.
283
00:20:33,543 --> 00:20:36,285
We turned our paychecks over
every time we got paid.
284
00:20:36,310 --> 00:20:38,952
And then we got an allowance,
five dollars a week.
285
00:20:38,958 --> 00:20:40,995
And Friday, I’d go to work
and I’d get off of work,
286
00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:44,218
and I’d hop on the bus
or drive the bus to San Francisco.
287
00:20:44,261 --> 00:20:45,853
If I had to go to the doctor,
it was taken care of.
288
00:20:45,854 --> 00:20:47,454
If I had to go to the dentist,
it was taken care of.
289
00:20:47,541 --> 00:20:49,503
If I needed clothes,
that was taken care of.
290
00:20:49,572 --> 00:20:51,808
And often on Saturday night,
we’d have planning commission meetings
291
00:20:51,809 --> 00:20:53,209
until 2 or 3 in the morning.
292
00:20:53,225 --> 00:20:55,278
We would always try to let
each other know the next day,
293
00:20:55,279 --> 00:20:56,679
“Well, how long did you sleep?”
294
00:20:56,691 --> 00:20:57,801
“Oh, I slept two hours.”
295
00:20:57,802 --> 00:21:00,202
“You only slept two?
Well, I slept an hour-and-a-half.”
296
00:21:00,228 --> 00:21:02,102
And then Sunday,
we’d have a Sunday morning service
297
00:21:02,132 --> 00:21:05,445
and then around one o’clock
hop on the buses, drive up,
298
00:21:05,504 --> 00:21:08,686
drop people off in San Francisco,
and drive up to Redwood Valley.
299
00:21:08,736 --> 00:21:11,130
The longest I ever stayed awake
was six days,
300
00:21:11,221 --> 00:21:14,280
and that’s with no coffee,
no nothing.
301
00:21:14,810 --> 00:21:15,484
It changed over the years,
302
00:21:15,579 --> 00:21:18,292
but it was always busy.
303
00:21:18,679 --> 00:21:22,469
Being in an environment where you’re
constantly up, you’re constantly busy,
304
00:21:23,153 --> 00:21:28,600
and you’re made to feel guilty if you
take too many luxuries like sleeping...
305
00:21:28,605 --> 00:21:31,260
you tend to
not really think for yourself.
306
00:21:31,665 --> 00:21:34,342
And I did allow Jones
to think for me
307
00:21:34,391 --> 00:21:37,360
because I figured that
he had the better plan.
308
00:21:37,414 --> 00:21:40,111
I gave my rights up to him.
309
00:21:40,165 --> 00:21:42,427
As many others did.
310
00:21:44,775 --> 00:21:46,456
Edie.
311
00:21:48,673 --> 00:21:53,165
Fingers, are your fingers numb
in your right hand?
312
00:21:54,237 --> 00:21:57,387
Reach the fingers out
that are bothering you.
313
00:22:01,647 --> 00:22:03,608
Now, is the pain gone?
314
00:22:10,631 --> 00:22:15,419
There was a senior citizen
and we nicknamed her Power.
315
00:22:16,268 --> 00:22:19,651
He would have her to come up
in the midst of one of his meetings,
316
00:22:19,652 --> 00:22:21,520
and she used to say,
317
00:22:21,266 --> 00:22:25,153
“The man got power.
318
00:22:25,954 --> 00:22:28,354
The man got power, ya’ll.”
319
00:22:28,577 --> 00:22:31,440
And the whole place
would just go wild.
320
00:22:33,988 --> 00:22:37,887
Take your glasses off.
Let’s just dare in our faith.
321
00:22:41,805 --> 00:22:45,927
Now look at my face.
322
00:22:46,528 --> 00:22:50,128
I love you,
the people love you,
323
00:22:50,192 --> 00:22:52,703
most importantly
Christ loves you.
324
00:22:52,718 --> 00:22:54,382
What do you see?
325
00:22:54,441 --> 00:22:56,954
- One finger.
- One finger!
326
00:22:59,515 --> 00:23:02,334
One of the most
incredible healings, to me,
327
00:23:02,758 --> 00:23:06,315
was this little old lady
and she was in a wheelchair.
328
00:23:06,389 --> 00:23:09,221
Jim said, “Darlin’,
you know, today is your day.
329
00:23:09,256 --> 00:23:11,717
We’re going to,
you’re going to get healed today.”
330
00:23:12,915 --> 00:23:15,921
He said, “We’re going to,
we’re going to heal those legs of yours.
331
00:23:15,922 --> 00:23:17,322
You’re going to walk again.”
332
00:23:17,396 --> 00:23:21,678
And the whole auditorium
went totally crazy.
333
00:23:22,829 --> 00:23:24,909
Come forth, my dear.
334
00:23:25,310 --> 00:23:30,110
Stand up. Take that step.
Bless your heart. Take that step.
335
00:23:30,361 --> 00:23:34,411
And she takes this
real slow, shaky step.
336
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:37,221
She said, “I can feel it.”
337
00:23:37,327 --> 00:23:40,696
He said, “Yes, I know you can feel it.
Now take your other leg and do it.”
338
00:23:40,736 --> 00:23:43,730
And so another real slow, shaky step
339
00:23:43,794 --> 00:23:46,409
and he says, “Now
I want you to walk toward me.”
340
00:23:46,428 --> 00:23:52,178
Move forward. Move forward.
Move forward, darlin’. You can do it.
341
00:23:52,757 --> 00:23:57,242
And she starts taking forward steps.
And pretty soon she is walking.
342
00:23:57,943 --> 00:24:00,843
And she starts walking up
one of the aisles.
343
00:24:04,327 --> 00:24:06,605
And pretty soon she’s running.
344
00:24:07,957 --> 00:24:11,233
Well, by this time the whole congregation’s
running down these aisles with us,
345
00:24:11,516 --> 00:24:15,723
we’re all just running around the aisles,
just hoopin’ and hollerin’ up a storm.
346
00:24:21,998 --> 00:24:25,490
Later, I found out
that this person
347
00:24:25,691 --> 00:24:29,491
that I had seen healed
and cried with
348
00:24:29,961 --> 00:24:35,361
was really one of the secretaries,
made up to look crippled and blind.
349
00:24:35,362 --> 00:24:40,662
Never shall forget
what He’s done for me.
350
00:24:40,963 --> 00:24:46,663
Oh, what He’s done for me.
351
00:24:46,964 --> 00:24:52,664
Oh, what He’s done for me.
352
00:24:52,965 --> 00:24:57,965
Oh, what He’s done for me.
353
00:24:57,966 --> 00:25:03,266
I never shall forget
what He’s done for me.
354
00:25:03,484 --> 00:25:07,481
For those people that hadn’t
grown up in the apostolic world,
355
00:25:07,530 --> 00:25:10,652
Jim would say, you know,
“I know this is different for you.
356
00:25:10,711 --> 00:25:15,787
But for people to come from
extremely religious backgrounds,
357
00:25:15,872 --> 00:25:18,546
so that I can bring them forward
to the message
358
00:25:18,578 --> 00:25:20,777
that’s so important
for all of us today
359
00:25:20,778 --> 00:25:23,780
and that is activism,
360
00:25:23,190 --> 00:25:26,567
then I need to speak
on each person’s level.”
361
00:25:26,652 --> 00:25:28,764
He said, “A lot of you people,
you Christian people coming in,
362
00:25:28,765 --> 00:25:30,565
you’re so hung-up on this Bible.”
363
00:25:30,634 --> 00:25:32,867
He said, “This black book
has held down black people
364
00:25:32,868 --> 00:25:34,868
for the last two-hundred years.”
365
00:25:34,954 --> 00:25:37,627
He said, “But I’m going to
show you this has no power.”
366
00:25:37,685 --> 00:25:42,700
So he leaned way back
like a football player and he flung it.
367
00:25:42,208 --> 00:25:46,908
And when he flung it and let it go,
the place got dead quiet like.
368
00:25:48,999 --> 00:25:51,110
And he waited
until it hit the floor, POW!
369
00:25:51,130 --> 00:25:55,597
When it hit the floor, he stood
and he looked back and forth.
370
00:25:57,825 --> 00:26:02,399
He said, “Now, did you see any lightning
come from the sky and strike me dead?”
371
00:26:02,483 --> 00:26:04,664
You’re gonna help yourself,
or you’ll get no help!
372
00:26:04,793 --> 00:26:07,758
There’s only one hope of glory…
That’s within you!
373
00:26:07,855 --> 00:26:11,389
Nobody’s gonna come out of the sky!
There’s no heaven up there…
374
00:26:11,470 --> 00:26:13,714
We’ll have to make heaven
down here!
375
00:26:16,243 --> 00:26:20,527
And he said, “What you need to
believe in is what you can see.”
376
00:26:21,770 --> 00:26:24,634
He said, “If you see me as your friend,
I’ll be your friend.
377
00:26:24,725 --> 00:26:27,269
As you see me as your father,
I’ll be your father,
378
00:26:27,270 --> 00:26:29,700
for those of you
that don’t have a father.”
379
00:26:29,157 --> 00:26:32,539
He said, “If you see me as your savior,
I’ll be your savior.”
380
00:26:32,616 --> 00:26:36,922
He said, even so, “If you see me
as your God, I’ll be your God.”
381
00:26:55,374 --> 00:27:00,986
People lifted Jim
to a level of adoration
382
00:27:01,209 --> 00:27:06,191
because many believed that
he had healed them of cancer.
383
00:27:06,312 --> 00:27:07,604
Many believed
384
00:27:07,605 --> 00:27:12,605
that he had saved their son
or daughter from an automobile accident.
385
00:27:14,472 --> 00:27:18,231
There were many reasons
for many people
386
00:27:18,232 --> 00:27:20,732
to admire, love,
387
00:27:20,838 --> 00:27:25,576
excuse, overlook
much of what Jim did.
388
00:27:35,500 --> 00:27:39,740
I had been in the Temple
for just a few months.
389
00:27:39,431 --> 00:27:41,833
I was sent backstage
in Los Angeles to...
390
00:27:42,134 --> 00:27:44,534
to get something for somebody,
I don’t remember what.
391
00:27:44,620 --> 00:27:48,308
And Jones happened to be
coming out of his room and he said,
392
00:27:48,309 --> 00:27:52,309
“Hi Tim, how are you doing? How is it going?
How do you like everything so far?”
393
00:27:52,423 --> 00:27:55,482
And, “Oh, I like it a lot.”
And, “you know, it’s really cool.”
394
00:27:55,500 --> 00:27:57,320
I don’t remember exactly.
395
00:27:57,329 --> 00:28:02,330
And he reached up and kind of patted
the back of my neck, and he said,
396
00:28:02,331 --> 00:28:04,623
“I’ll fuck you in the ass
if you want.”
397
00:28:05,736 --> 00:28:10,836
And I just kind of stammered,
“No.” You know, “No.”
398
00:28:10,837 --> 00:28:14,937
And he said, “Well, you know,
if you ever want that, that’s okay,
399
00:28:15,370 --> 00:28:17,760
just let me know
and we’ll do that.”
400
00:28:18,591 --> 00:28:21,860
Jim said that
all of us were homosexuals,
401
00:28:21,983 --> 00:28:26,517
everyone except... He was the only
heterosexual on the planet.
402
00:28:28,147 --> 00:28:30,941
And that the women were all lesbians
and the guys were all gay.
403
00:28:31,900 --> 00:28:35,150
And so anyone that showed
any interest in sex was just compensating.
404
00:28:35,223 --> 00:28:40,747
What he explained to each of us,
and in sermons, was that
405
00:28:41,748 --> 00:28:46,148
sexual relationships
were very selfish
406
00:28:46,234 --> 00:28:51,622
and they took away
from the focus of the church,
407
00:28:51,623 --> 00:28:54,230
and that was to help others.
408
00:28:54,782 --> 00:28:56,849
Jim was not celibate.
409
00:28:57,150 --> 00:29:01,850
Nobody knew that until perhaps
it was their time to find out.
410
00:29:01,979 --> 00:29:06,685
What he spoke from the pulpit
wasn’t what he did behind the scenes.
411
00:29:08,750 --> 00:29:13,225
I remember one night,
one of the brothers had stood up and said,
412
00:29:13,325 --> 00:29:18,715
“You know, I think everybody
that wants Father to screw them in the butt,
413
00:29:18,816 --> 00:29:22,116
you need to take an enema first.”
414
00:29:23,310 --> 00:29:27,420
I’m telling you the truth man,
I’m telling you the truth.
415
00:29:29,155 --> 00:29:31,615
And then the question went on,
416
00:29:31,816 --> 00:29:35,516
“Well, how many of you in here
have had him to do that?”
417
00:29:36,186 --> 00:29:39,762
And whether they were lying
or just following suit,
418
00:29:39,863 --> 00:29:43,363
hands of the men
just went up around the room.
419
00:29:43,519 --> 00:29:46,244
And I’m sitting there petrified
because I’m like,
420
00:29:46,445 --> 00:29:49,345
“Is this what it’s leading to,
that I’m supposed to get to?”
421
00:29:49,493 --> 00:29:52,921
And I’m thinking, “hmmm.”
But I played it off like,
422
00:29:52,922 --> 00:29:55,522
“Okay, I’m being cool.
Okay, if that’s where they at,
423
00:29:55,622 --> 00:29:57,477
that’s not where I’m at.”
424
00:29:57,512 --> 00:30:01,562
Because I’m thinking, “My wife...
I’m happy with my wife.
425
00:30:01,563 --> 00:30:04,663
With this sleep I’m not getting,
I’m not getting enough anyway.”
426
00:30:07,990 --> 00:30:13,399
One of the powerful things that
Jim used, to keep us to not think,
427
00:30:13,498 --> 00:30:18,140
was that we were never really allowed
to speak with one another.
428
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,852
I’d look around and I’d say,
“Am I the only one that feels this way?”
429
00:30:23,230 --> 00:30:28,763
I learned, eventually,
not to say anything to anyone.
430
00:30:31,351 --> 00:30:33,922
We had a lady
who visited us a week ago here
431
00:30:33,992 --> 00:30:36,982
and was speaking to one at the door,
and she was a member of a prominent church,
432
00:30:37,470 --> 00:30:38,568
a pastor’s wife,
433
00:30:38,645 --> 00:30:41,865
and she said, “I think that the poor
should be made to control
434
00:30:41,949 --> 00:30:44,877
how many children they bring
into the earth.” You remember?
435
00:30:44,972 --> 00:30:48,742
Some leading scientists say,
“We have to have euthanasia.”
436
00:30:48,855 --> 00:30:52,540
Oh, no. Oh, no.
437
00:30:52,174 --> 00:30:55,824
Who’s going to decide who
and when a person’s going to die?
438
00:30:55,926 --> 00:30:59,208
We must never allow that because
this is the kind of thing that ushers in
439
00:30:59,255 --> 00:31:01,815
the terror of a Hitler’s Germany.
440
00:31:01,879 --> 00:31:04,876
We must not allow these kind of things
to enter our consciousness.
441
00:31:08,356 --> 00:31:12,235
My father used to tell me
that people’s lives,
442
00:31:12,317 --> 00:31:16,576
sixty percent of people’s lives,
were made on emotional decisions.
443
00:31:17,433 --> 00:31:18,957
Make your decisions,
444
00:31:18,958 --> 00:31:22,258
sixty percent of your decisions,
based on logic, fact and reason,
445
00:31:22,827 --> 00:31:27,108
and allow emotion
to be the secondary motivator.
446
00:31:27,498 --> 00:31:31,712
And... we were Star Trek fans.
He and I were Star Trek fans,
447
00:31:31,713 --> 00:31:33,313
and he used to always say,
448
00:31:33,347 --> 00:31:36,828
“Just vulcanize yourself.
Just vulcanize yourself.”
449
00:31:42,961 --> 00:31:45,871
We were celebrating New Years Eve.
450
00:31:45,972 --> 00:31:49,172
There were about
a hundred and twenty people.
451
00:31:49,263 --> 00:31:54,540
Jim started talking
about our cause and he said,
452
00:31:55,652 --> 00:31:58,833
“This punch is going to be
passed out to everybody here.”
453
00:32:00,681 --> 00:32:04,625
We all drank our punch
and then he said,
454
00:32:04,999 --> 00:32:07,633
“You just drank poison.
455
00:32:08,342 --> 00:32:13,106
And we will all die, right here
in the church, together as one.”
456
00:32:14,358 --> 00:32:18,281
The women were just screaming,
“Oh no, my baby, my baby”,
457
00:32:18,988 --> 00:32:20,754
and others just sat there.
458
00:32:22,755 --> 00:32:24,755
And all of a sudden, Jim says,
459
00:32:26,310 --> 00:32:28,590
“That wasn’t poison you drank.”
460
00:32:29,738 --> 00:32:32,650
Jim said that
this was a test of loyalty.
461
00:32:32,728 --> 00:32:38,401
He just wanted to see if we were
truly committed to our cause,
462
00:32:38,450 --> 00:32:41,176
and that was
how we would show it.
463
00:32:41,742 --> 00:32:44,960
Well it wasn’t about our loyalty,
464
00:32:44,197 --> 00:32:47,497
because we were
demonstrating loyalty all the time.
465
00:32:47,825 --> 00:32:51,693
Coming there, being there
in the meetings, sitting, listening,
466
00:32:51,994 --> 00:32:53,994
you know, supporting, working.
467
00:32:54,134 --> 00:32:58,994
And I thought it had
a lot more to do with Jim’s sense of
468
00:33:01,496 --> 00:33:02,696
rehearsal.
469
00:33:03,235 --> 00:33:08,279
Did he feel like he was potent
and... and omnipotent enough
470
00:33:08,369 --> 00:33:12,296
to really get people
to kill themselves when he said so?
471
00:33:12,612 --> 00:33:15,311
And that frightened
the hell out of me.
472
00:33:26,900 --> 00:33:29,779
Jim Jones, I think,
realized that
473
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:35,680
ultimately Ukiah
was not the sort of climate
474
00:33:35,681 --> 00:33:38,254
where Peoples Temple would thrive.
475
00:33:38,411 --> 00:33:42,796
He wasn’t going to be gaining
large numbers of members.
476
00:33:42,945 --> 00:33:45,257
He couldn’t declare himself to be
477
00:33:45,382 --> 00:33:50,940
a socialist god openly,
certainly in a city like Ukiah.
478
00:33:58,978 --> 00:34:04,100
In San Francisco, Jones walked in
on a sort of a wild kind of party,
479
00:34:04,890 --> 00:34:07,790
where there was a lot of new faces
and new sources of power.
480
00:34:07,882 --> 00:34:10,644
And there was a sort of feeling
that smaller groups,
481
00:34:10,733 --> 00:34:13,966
neighborhood groups, activist groups
had a bigger chance.
482
00:34:15,720 --> 00:34:19,633
I think the early sixties
had been a time of great optimism;
483
00:34:19,734 --> 00:34:22,113
there was a belief that
we could change the world
484
00:34:22,229 --> 00:34:24,199
through social movements.
485
00:34:24,294 --> 00:34:29,565
With various assassinations, Malcolm X,
Medgar Evers, Martin Luther King,
486
00:34:29,648 --> 00:34:34,312
Robert Kennedy, there was definitely
a feeling of hopelessness.
487
00:34:36,139 --> 00:34:39,914
The message of Peoples Temple was,
“No, the dream is alive.”
488
00:34:46,300 --> 00:34:49,653
If you had a demonstration
in San Francisco
489
00:34:50,389 --> 00:34:52,380
and you wanted
people to show up,
490
00:34:52,616 --> 00:34:57,322
Jim Jones, the Peoples Temple,
could be there in twenty minutes,
491
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:01,219
with hundreds of people.
And we would be enthusiastic.
492
00:35:03,940 --> 00:35:07,661
There was an attitude of,
"We can change the world."
493
00:35:07,961 --> 00:35:11,670
And that’s what we wanted to do.
494
00:35:11,131 --> 00:35:14,702
These people would be on time,
they’d be polite and nice.
495
00:35:14,806 --> 00:35:17,583
They were a span of ages,
a span of races.
496
00:35:17,697 --> 00:35:21,373
They were tailor-made
for a political rally.
497
00:35:21,490 --> 00:35:24,843
To a politician, it was like
a birthday cake times twelve.
498
00:35:26,177 --> 00:35:28,480
You have managed to make
499
00:35:28,649 --> 00:35:31,649
the many persons associated
with Peoples Temple part of a family.
500
00:35:31,714 --> 00:35:34,179
If you are in need of healthcare,
you get healthcare.
501
00:35:34,250 --> 00:35:37,103
If you’re in need of legal assistance
of some sort, you get that.
502
00:35:37,182 --> 00:35:39,177
If you’re in need of
transportation, you get that.
503
00:35:39,271 --> 00:35:42,283
And that’s the kind of religious thing
that I am excited about,
504
00:35:42,284 --> 00:35:43,884
and have some respect for.
505
00:35:44,157 --> 00:35:49,979
When vice presidential candidate,
Walter Mondale, came to San Francisco,
506
00:35:50,670 --> 00:35:54,435
Jim Jones was part of the entourage
that boarded his private jet.
507
00:35:55,470 --> 00:35:59,275
When Rosalyn Carter
came to San Francisco,
508
00:35:59,372 --> 00:36:02,107
she gave Jim Jones
a private audience.
509
00:36:02,948 --> 00:36:07,377
Jim Jones had political power
that few people,
510
00:36:07,378 --> 00:36:10,378
let alone preachers,
could have imagined.
511
00:36:17,633 --> 00:36:19,813
Jim Jones represented
the Peoples Temple
512
00:36:19,877 --> 00:36:23,520
as a progressive movement
that was threatened.
513
00:36:23,112 --> 00:36:27,491
That there were outside forces who
didn’t want us to do what we were doing.
514
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:28,967
And it was the government.
515
00:36:31,365 --> 00:36:34,993
The government was infiltrating
and wiretapping
516
00:36:35,416 --> 00:36:38,258
and trying to kill people
or assassinate people.
517
00:36:38,341 --> 00:36:40,165
That’s what was happening.
518
00:36:42,201 --> 00:36:45,470
He was always paranoid that
someone was going to get in
519
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:46,248
and try to kill him,
520
00:36:46,371 --> 00:36:49,426
that they had two people
that had dedicated their lives,
521
00:36:49,510 --> 00:36:51,793
that they were going to jump
in front of Jones and take the bullet,
522
00:36:51,794 --> 00:36:54,940
kind of like the secret service
so to speak.
523
00:36:55,236 --> 00:36:58,970
Jim started changing a lot
in the seventies.
524
00:36:58,298 --> 00:37:00,980
He was taking drugs.
525
00:37:00,718 --> 00:37:03,230
I think he said
it was his kidneys at the time.
526
00:37:03,342 --> 00:37:06,166
And he was getting
more and more paranoid.
527
00:37:06,367 --> 00:37:08,367
Incredibly paranoid.
528
00:37:08,927 --> 00:37:10,442
There was always threats.
529
00:37:10,443 --> 00:37:14,743
Always, always, always,
always threats. They were there.
530
00:37:14,832 --> 00:37:18,970
They were just about
to try to destroy us
531
00:37:18,462 --> 00:37:23,173
if we weren’t always viligant
about our movement.
532
00:37:27,981 --> 00:37:30,768
There was a fire
in the San Francisco Temple.
533
00:37:30,861 --> 00:37:34,594
The Temple was burned down
and had to be rebuilt.
534
00:37:35,670 --> 00:37:38,830
The fire proved
they are out to get us.
535
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:40,601
They so don’t want us to do
what we’re doing;
536
00:37:40,683 --> 00:37:41,844
they’ve burned down the Temple.
537
00:37:41,898 --> 00:37:44,457
They’ll do anything to keep us
from doing what we’re doing.
538
00:37:44,517 --> 00:37:46,920
So we have to be even stronger.
539
00:37:46,992 --> 00:37:48,669
What about the fact that
the Ku Klux Klan
540
00:37:48,670 --> 00:37:51,170
has increased one hundred times
in its membership?
541
00:37:51,214 --> 00:37:54,471
Where? Not Mississippi,
I’m talking about New York State.
542
00:37:55,673 --> 00:37:59,926
It’s the church’s duty to have
a place of protection for its people.
543
00:38:03,368 --> 00:38:08,468
December of ’75, ninety of us
went by plane, into Guyana,
544
00:38:08,587 --> 00:38:12,107
and saw where we were
building the community there.
545
00:38:12,205 --> 00:38:14,152
See, they’ve made
progress on the road
546
00:38:14,238 --> 00:38:17,170
and leveled it,
clear in to five miles.
547
00:38:17,152 --> 00:38:21,868
And you’re seeing in the distance,
housing complexes, that are being built.
548
00:38:22,758 --> 00:38:27,639
What I saw that creation
as being was building a city
549
00:38:27,725 --> 00:38:33,319
where we could move and raise
our children, outside of the oppression
550
00:38:33,435 --> 00:38:37,220
and the racism of
the United States of America.
551
00:38:40,353 --> 00:38:45,380
When I first went into Jonestown,
it was just a footpath in the rainforest.
552
00:38:48,508 --> 00:38:51,148
We had Indians
in front of us with machetes,
553
00:38:51,149 --> 00:38:53,949
and we had Indians
behind us with machetes.
554
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:01,196
Three-hundred miles into the jungle,
we literally built a city
555
00:39:01,246 --> 00:39:03,614
in the middle of the jungle,
in the middle of nowhere.
556
00:39:03,686 --> 00:39:07,645
Hello family. It’s been a... it’s
such a joy and great pleasure being here,
557
00:39:07,731 --> 00:39:10,220
because of Father’s love.
We are trying to make,
558
00:39:10,297 --> 00:39:13,421
and we are making
a place of refuge for all of you here.
559
00:39:14,285 --> 00:39:17,528
There is no,
nothing at all that I would...
560
00:39:18,129 --> 00:39:19,629
that I have any holdings here.
561
00:39:19,630 --> 00:39:24,530
I do not want to go back in any way,
shape or form to the States.
562
00:39:24,644 --> 00:39:28,903
I love it here and this is the place
where all of you are going to be.
563
00:39:32,533 --> 00:39:35,203
Pretty soon we were
seeing film footage
564
00:39:35,272 --> 00:39:38,777
of the first crew
that went down there.
565
00:39:40,301 --> 00:39:43,450
We all wanted to go.
I wanted to go.
566
00:39:43,390 --> 00:39:45,948
It looked like...
like freedom.
567
00:39:46,705 --> 00:39:50,723
Now, will each of you
give a very fond embrace,
568
00:39:50,724 --> 00:39:54,224
a salutary kiss of greeting
to your neighbor,
569
00:39:54,417 --> 00:39:57,510
and let’s fill this atmosphere
with warmth and love.
570
00:39:59,208 --> 00:40:03,941
We thought of ourselves as one big
family that did handle our own discipline.
571
00:40:04,954 --> 00:40:10,942
I was in a lot of the meetings where
people were spanked or beaten, and I...
572
00:40:11,898 --> 00:40:15,192
I was slapped once,
also in a public meeting.
573
00:40:15,310 --> 00:40:17,566
People were brought
up front and asked...
574
00:40:17,845 --> 00:40:19,780
had to tell who
they had slept with
575
00:40:20,146 --> 00:40:24,662
and who they had
sneaked off to a restaurant with.
576
00:40:24,795 --> 00:40:28,170
There wasn’t a week that went by
that I wasn’t called up on the floor
577
00:40:28,344 --> 00:40:31,229
because of my behavior,
because of my attitude.
578
00:40:31,230 --> 00:40:35,410
“Stanley Clayton, up, front, center.”
579
00:40:35,512 --> 00:40:37,192
He would ask people,
580
00:40:37,276 --> 00:40:38,660
“What do you think
we ought to do with them?
581
00:40:38,735 --> 00:40:40,510
Do you think they ought to
get a good boxing?”
582
00:40:40,568 --> 00:40:43,666
And then he’d get
a resounding roar, “Yes!”
583
00:40:43,845 --> 00:40:46,855
You might fight
five people in one night.
584
00:40:47,240 --> 00:40:50,194
Well, you know,
you’re very tired!
585
00:40:50,422 --> 00:40:54,141
I’ve seen situations where
they actually knocked the person out
586
00:40:54,270 --> 00:40:57,356
and actually took water
and threw water back on him,
587
00:40:57,357 --> 00:40:59,257
woke him up,
and whooped him some more.
588
00:40:59,473 --> 00:41:03,249
I had welts really bad,
and when I went to work the next day,
589
00:41:03,328 --> 00:41:07,860
one of my employees
noticed the welts when I sat down.
590
00:41:07,234 --> 00:41:09,740
And I just broke down
and told her.
591
00:41:09,163 --> 00:41:10,986
She didn’t even know
I was Peoples Temple.
592
00:41:11,113 --> 00:41:14,452
And she called the manager
of the station up
593
00:41:14,887 --> 00:41:17,549
and they talked to me
about leaving.
594
00:41:17,652 --> 00:41:20,812
I couldn’t say goodbye
to my son or my husband
595
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:23,977
because at that point,
it was like the Gestapo,
596
00:41:24,810 --> 00:41:25,808
the families were
turning in each other.
597
00:41:25,881 --> 00:41:29,105
If I had said goodbye,
one of them would have reported me.
598
00:41:30,388 --> 00:41:34,196
It’s kind of like when you
get married and you have this ideal.
599
00:41:34,297 --> 00:41:37,309
And you’re, you know,
you’re in love and then,
600
00:41:37,310 --> 00:41:41,110
you know, the honeymoon
wears off and reality sets in.
601
00:41:41,389 --> 00:41:43,874
And most people,
once the going gets rough,
602
00:41:43,950 --> 00:41:46,442
don’t jump out immediately.
603
00:41:48,912 --> 00:41:53,135
In one planning commission meeting,
Jim was getting notes, kind of love notes,
604
00:41:53,197 --> 00:41:55,639
from one of the members
on the planning commission.
605
00:41:55,718 --> 00:41:58,493
Jones is sitting there calmly
and so another lady said,
606
00:41:58,562 --> 00:41:59,987
“Well, I don’t know
why you keep doing that.
607
00:42:00,580 --> 00:42:03,100
What makes you think you’ve got
something that he wants anyway?”
608
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:04,227
And so another woman says,
609
00:42:04,297 --> 00:42:06,100
“Well, you know what?
You ought to just take off your clothes
610
00:42:06,101 --> 00:42:08,601
and show him what you got.
You ain’t got nothing.”
611
00:42:08,713 --> 00:42:11,785
And so, by this time,
they looked back to Jones
612
00:42:11,954 --> 00:42:15,204
and so he looks over his glasses,
and he nods with approval.
613
00:42:15,265 --> 00:42:17,169
“Yeah, that’s a good idea.”
614
00:42:17,250 --> 00:42:22,959
She was to be totally naked and
she was down to nothing but her skin,
615
00:42:23,664 --> 00:42:28,700
not even any shoes on, you know,
no bra, no panties, no nothing.
616
00:42:28,540 --> 00:42:30,705
Then they begin to say
what her breasts looked like,
617
00:42:30,781 --> 00:42:32,903
her stomach, butt,
vagina, you name it.
618
00:42:32,991 --> 00:42:35,314
Everything they could think of,
they were saying.
619
00:42:35,373 --> 00:42:37,516
By this time, her face is red,
620
00:42:37,593 --> 00:42:41,820
her body’s almost red from
embarrassment, and I noticed something.
621
00:42:41,894 --> 00:42:44,501
Jones was sitting,
looking over his sunglasses,
622
00:42:44,601 --> 00:42:46,917
but he had a smile on his face
623
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:50,689
like he’s really enjoying
this woman being torn down.
624
00:42:50,796 --> 00:42:54,646
I have a conscious memory of
sitting there, thinking to myself,
625
00:42:54,763 --> 00:42:56,658
“This is wrong.”
626
00:42:56,793 --> 00:43:01,974
And I didn’t do a damned thing
to stand up and say, “This is wrong.”
627
00:43:02,670 --> 00:43:05,764
It’s like a child
in a dysfunctional family.
628
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:10,450
On a certain level,
it’s normal, you know?
629
00:43:12,460 --> 00:43:15,146
I just kind of took
everything in stride.
630
00:43:15,426 --> 00:43:20,470
But then we felt like we had gotten
involved and gotten in so deep that
631
00:43:21,471 --> 00:43:23,171
it was actually no way out.
632
00:43:30,875 --> 00:43:34,238
I had traveled on Bus Seven,
which was Jim’s bus.
633
00:43:35,919 --> 00:43:38,298
And he sat down next to me.
634
00:43:40,399 --> 00:43:42,299
And I was sitting there
and I thought,
635
00:43:42,512 --> 00:43:48,320
“That’s weird, it smells
like alcohol next to me.”
636
00:43:49,252 --> 00:43:53,546
And he leaned over and he said,
“Do you know what you do to me?”
637
00:43:55,941 --> 00:43:59,361
He had informed me that
I was to come in... On Bus Seven,
638
00:43:59,362 --> 00:44:03,362
there was a room
in the back for just him.
639
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:06,261
He had books.
He had a desk. He had a bed.
640
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:10,416
When everyone got off the bus
at the rest stop,
641
00:44:10,925 --> 00:44:14,608
I went into his little room
and I sat there and waited for him.
642
00:44:16,624 --> 00:44:22,539
And finally he opened the door,
and without any talk or anything,
643
00:44:22,740 --> 00:44:25,538
he just pulled down his pants and...
644
00:44:27,539 --> 00:44:29,539
and had sex with me.
645
00:44:32,470 --> 00:44:34,942
And as I lay there frightened,
646
00:44:35,151 --> 00:44:41,117
not sure what to do,
and as I shivered, he’d say to me,
647
00:44:41,558 --> 00:44:45,253
“This is for you.
I’m doing this for you, Debbie.”
648
00:44:54,734 --> 00:44:57,946
Well, in 1975 it was
a mayoral election in San Francisco.
649
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:01,596
A conservative candidate and
a liberal candidate, George Moscone.
650
00:45:04,930 --> 00:45:09,000
Jones had several hundred people
who would go door-to-door Election Day.
651
00:45:09,100 --> 00:45:13,237
Instead of a group that might give you
twenty or thirty of these people,
652
00:45:13,238 --> 00:45:16,238
or a hundred, you had
three or four hundred.
653
00:45:17,460 --> 00:45:20,147
The Moscone election was very close.
654
00:45:20,334 --> 00:45:23,876
The margin of victory was
probably no more than 4,000.
655
00:45:23,982 --> 00:45:29,800
So you had to credit a big chunk of
decisive votes to Peoples Temple.
656
00:45:31,451 --> 00:45:35,119
The reward for the election
of George Moscone
657
00:45:35,264 --> 00:45:40,721
was the appointment of Jim Jones
as Chairman of the City Housing Authority.
658
00:45:43,638 --> 00:45:46,407
What was once a really
boring meeting, all of a sudden,
659
00:45:46,451 --> 00:45:49,477
became like really interesting
when Jim Jones became the head of it
660
00:45:49,527 --> 00:45:51,343
because we all
came down on the buses.
661
00:45:51,384 --> 00:45:54,376
And we were instructed that
when Jim came in, we stood,
662
00:45:54,423 --> 00:45:57,474
and when he left or spoke,
we’d stand and clap.
663
00:45:57,537 --> 00:46:00,592
The sheer staginess,
the controlled atmosphere
664
00:46:00,593 --> 00:46:02,993
that sort of enclosed this guy,
665
00:46:03,890 --> 00:46:06,261
made him so unusual,
so different than the norm,
666
00:46:06,462 --> 00:46:09,162
that it made me very curious.
667
00:46:10,530 --> 00:46:11,902
My biggest problem was
getting somebody
668
00:46:11,961 --> 00:46:16,196
to sort of talk to me about the Church
in kind of conversational terms.
669
00:46:17,995 --> 00:46:21,784
I had become friends with
some of the various defectors,
670
00:46:21,785 --> 00:46:24,285
and one of the defectors told me that
671
00:46:24,331 --> 00:46:27,193
she was going to speak
publicly about Jones.
672
00:46:27,788 --> 00:46:30,889
And I said to her, “Well,
if you’re going to speak publicly,
673
00:46:30,977 --> 00:46:34,692
I’m going to speak with you.
I’m not going to let you do this alone.”
674
00:46:35,785 --> 00:46:39,907
I finally heard from
some ex-members who heard
675
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:43,665
I was interested in writing a story
about the Temple for New West magazine,
676
00:46:43,755 --> 00:46:45,652
and they took a chance.
They called me and some of them said,
677
00:46:45,653 --> 00:46:47,453
you know, “You don’t know
nothing about the Church.
678
00:46:47,509 --> 00:46:50,765
Wait until I tell you
what I went through.”
679
00:46:52,292 --> 00:46:53,953
Before the article was going to break,
680
00:46:53,954 --> 00:46:58,540
Jim convinced the publisher
that she needed to read it to him.
681
00:46:58,292 --> 00:47:01,870
He was on one phone and
I was on taping the other end of it,
682
00:47:01,962 --> 00:47:04,520
while somebody else
listened on another one.
683
00:47:04,931 --> 00:47:09,307
Jim didn’t understand that
there was no way he could talk her down
684
00:47:09,608 --> 00:47:12,708
from whatever this article
was going to say.
685
00:47:12,852 --> 00:47:15,452
And as she continues
to read this article,
686
00:47:15,453 --> 00:47:17,553
he’s looking around the room
at about five of us
687
00:47:17,654 --> 00:47:20,310
and you could tell that he’s becoming
more and more anxious and as...
688
00:47:20,393 --> 00:47:23,629
and you know, his mouth
becomes dryer and dryer.
689
00:47:23,730 --> 00:47:28,300
And he realizes that this article
is going to be hugely damning,
690
00:47:29,392 --> 00:47:33,413
and it was midway through it
he mouths to all of us in the room,
691
00:47:33,414 --> 00:47:34,914
“We’re leaving tonight.”
692
00:47:36,146 --> 00:47:38,198
They flew out to Guyana,
693
00:47:38,199 --> 00:47:41,399
six hours before
that article was going to hit.
694
00:48:01,191 --> 00:48:05,546
When Jim Jones decided that
there was too much pressure,
695
00:48:05,684 --> 00:48:09,228
too much trouble
to stay in San Francisco,
696
00:48:09,403 --> 00:48:12,503
he ordered the move to Jonestown
697
00:48:12,604 --> 00:48:16,408
and it happened almost overnight.
698
00:48:16,778 --> 00:48:20,791
People were being taken to airports.
699
00:48:21,295 --> 00:48:26,515
There were people who were packing
their belongings and leaving their homes,
700
00:48:26,618 --> 00:48:31,248
with virtually no explanation
to their family members
701
00:48:31,249 --> 00:48:34,849
as to where they were going
or why they were going.
702
00:48:36,436 --> 00:48:42,900
Fred Lewis came home and found that
his wife had taken their seven children
703
00:48:42,370 --> 00:48:46,720
and gone to Guyana,
along with all their possessions.
704
00:48:49,690 --> 00:48:53,400
My wife had gone over
three months prior.
705
00:48:53,158 --> 00:48:54,419
And I was waiting
on pins and needles,
706
00:48:54,420 --> 00:48:58,320
and I was talking to her probably
twice a week on the hand radio
707
00:48:59,778 --> 00:49:01,727
and Leona Collier came up,
708
00:49:01,728 --> 00:49:04,928
“Ok, Eugene it’s your time,
you’re going over.”
709
00:49:07,847 --> 00:49:10,607
Coming into Jonestown,
you see a guard at the front gate
710
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:13,467
and you’re all excited,
you’re going down this road.
711
00:49:13,975 --> 00:49:16,590
The trailer comes to a stop
712
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:18,860
and then you can see the wooden
pathway that leads to the pavilion.
713
00:49:18,970 --> 00:49:20,578
And you’re just...
714
00:49:20,579 --> 00:49:23,579
you want to run, but you know,
you just try, “Alright I’m gonna be cool.”
715
00:49:24,541 --> 00:49:26,555
And just as you reach
the edge of the pavilion,
716
00:49:26,556 --> 00:49:28,456
people started rushing you
that you knew, you know.
717
00:49:28,540 --> 00:49:32,800
My wife was there. Haven’t seen
my mother in over a year or so.
718
00:49:32,176 --> 00:49:36,935
And I’m just hugging people
and it’s just... it’s like, I have arrived
719
00:49:37,900 --> 00:49:39,583
and everything is
going to be okay now.
720
00:49:54,910 --> 00:49:58,702
I have never been so totally
happy or fulfilled in my life.
721
00:49:58,727 --> 00:50:00,418
I can’t begin to describe it.
You could sit here
722
00:50:00,502 --> 00:50:03,475
and talk all day long and no words
could describe the peace, the beauty,
723
00:50:03,537 --> 00:50:07,814
the sense of accomplishment and
responsibility and camaraderie that’s here.
724
00:50:07,874 --> 00:50:11,676
It’s overwhelming, it really is.
You can’t describe it.
725
00:50:11,945 --> 00:50:16,355
You know, it’s just such an exciting time.
Everything was new and unique and...
726
00:50:16,861 --> 00:50:20,785
and just fun. You know,
we just had fun with it as it grew.
727
00:50:24,137 --> 00:50:27,216
I just loved that
we created what we ate,
728
00:50:27,264 --> 00:50:29,751
that we did all these jobs.
729
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:34,634
What you think about your friends
back down in the States?
730
00:50:34,656 --> 00:50:36,470
You think they should be here?
731
00:50:36,857 --> 00:50:40,181
Do you want to share with them
this morning? Speak up!
732
00:50:40,256 --> 00:50:42,529
- I wished I could, share with them,
- Can you do it?
733
00:50:43,131 --> 00:50:46,895
- but they won’t listen to me.
- Would you do it? Won’t listen to you, huh?
734
00:50:48,598 --> 00:50:51,385
When you don’t have anything,
735
00:50:51,413 --> 00:50:53,456
you own Jonestown
you are part of Jonestown.
736
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:58,600
You were a shareholder of Jonestown
if you were African American.
737
00:50:58,369 --> 00:51:04,156
It gave them the opportunity to...
to really be a part of creating a utopia.
738
00:51:45,122 --> 00:51:47,344
I think that Jim Jones
took his group down there
739
00:51:47,403 --> 00:51:49,401
because he was afraid
to face the publicity
740
00:51:49,402 --> 00:51:52,302
and answer the questions
here in this country.
741
00:51:52,374 --> 00:51:54,845
I don’t think that he feels confident
742
00:51:54,877 --> 00:51:57,512
having people talk to their relatives.
743
00:51:57,582 --> 00:52:00,600
I think the only way he can survive
and sustain what he started
744
00:52:00,644 --> 00:52:04,858
is to isolate all his followers
from this country and from their families.
745
00:52:05,698 --> 00:52:08,368
The Concerned Relatives
were the ex-members
746
00:52:08,432 --> 00:52:10,934
who wanted other family members,
still in the church,
747
00:52:11,140 --> 00:52:12,691
to know they could leave.
748
00:52:12,778 --> 00:52:16,580
They wanted them to feel
that there was an outside world,
749
00:52:16,100 --> 00:52:18,391
that Jones was wrong about telling people
they could never leave the church,
750
00:52:18,461 --> 00:52:21,753
and that they would be
treated badly in the real world.
751
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:27,593
The Concerned Relatives prompted
FCC investigation of Peoples Temple.
752
00:52:27,672 --> 00:52:32,366
They organized letter-writing campaigns
to public officials, to members of Congress.
753
00:52:32,457 --> 00:52:37,409
They were incredibly effective
in mobilizing government
754
00:52:37,507 --> 00:52:40,455
and media interest
in Peoples Temple.
755
00:52:40,516 --> 00:52:43,700
He was talking integration.
He was talking helping people.
756
00:52:43,450 --> 00:52:45,847
He was talking
better this and better that.
757
00:52:45,848 --> 00:52:48,848
What about now?
What’s your impression now?
758
00:52:49,891 --> 00:52:53,881
My impression now,
that those are fronts for him.
759
00:52:53,882 --> 00:52:56,182
I think he’s gone crazy.
760
00:53:03,518 --> 00:53:08,279
When Jim Jones wasn’t there,
things tended to be a little bit lighter.
761
00:53:09,419 --> 00:53:11,625
You know, people would be
dancing or singing.
762
00:53:11,626 --> 00:53:14,626
There would be music
in different cottages.
763
00:53:16,397 --> 00:53:20,405
But when Jones was present,
it was very, very dark.
764
00:53:20,502 --> 00:53:22,625
It was almost like a dark cloud.
765
00:53:26,698 --> 00:53:29,794
In Jonestown,
there was a speaker system
766
00:53:29,795 --> 00:53:31,795
and only Jim spoke on it.
767
00:53:31,861 --> 00:53:36,221
And it went twenty-four hours a day
and he would tape himself.
768
00:53:36,321 --> 00:53:38,922
So, in the middle of the night,
all through the night,
769
00:53:38,923 --> 00:53:41,123
his voice was talking to you.
770
00:53:41,188 --> 00:53:44,667
The United States is calling for
the removal of all Blacks and Indians.
771
00:53:44,668 --> 00:53:45,868
So is England.
772
00:53:45,917 --> 00:53:51,186
They want to have their immigrant Black,
Indian population removed in six months.
773
00:53:51,614 --> 00:53:55,800
We had no other radio or T.V.
or communication with parents
774
00:53:55,163 --> 00:54:01,105
or any kind of, you know, update
that could show us, really,
775
00:54:01,156 --> 00:54:06,185
that there’s a whole other thing going on
besides what Jim was interpreting for us.
776
00:54:06,218 --> 00:54:08,347
I make my stand clear.
777
00:54:08,448 --> 00:54:12,448
Give us our liberty
or give us our death.
778
00:54:12,804 --> 00:54:15,436
No matter where you were,
you could hear.
779
00:54:16,630 --> 00:54:20,240
You could hear it in your...
in your bunk at night.
780
00:54:20,115 --> 00:54:22,587
You could hear it
when you’re in the outhouse.
781
00:54:22,688 --> 00:54:26,388
You could hear it when
you were working in the field.
782
00:54:27,618 --> 00:54:29,942
You...
you could hear it all the time.
783
00:54:29,997 --> 00:54:32,949
At least on those terms,
we choose our death
784
00:54:33,470 --> 00:54:35,218
and no one chooses it for us.
785
00:54:35,419 --> 00:54:37,519
Don’t try to take any of our children.
786
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:43,675
There was this pervasive sense
of being under attack in Jonestown.
787
00:54:43,788 --> 00:54:47,404
He told them that things were
just getting worse in the United States,
788
00:54:47,483 --> 00:54:49,317
they couldn’t go back home.
789
00:54:49,383 --> 00:54:53,203
And not only that, but these
forces were traveling to Guyana
790
00:54:53,243 --> 00:54:55,250
to destroy them there.
791
00:54:55,329 --> 00:54:58,370
You can’t know how much
of a conspiracy there is
792
00:54:58,380 --> 00:54:59,638
in the U.S. these days.
793
00:54:59,815 --> 00:55:01,857
Maybe it’s economics?
Who knows what it is?
794
00:55:01,858 --> 00:55:04,658
I’m not able to say.
But I do know it’s real.
795
00:55:04,803 --> 00:55:08,500
It’s obvious that Martin Luther King
was murdered by conspiracy,
796
00:55:08,510 --> 00:55:09,551
Malcolm X, Senator Kennedy…
797
00:55:09,613 --> 00:55:13,316
Over the summer of 1978,
all of us noticed that
798
00:55:13,380 --> 00:55:15,702
Jim was seemed to be getting sicker.
799
00:55:15,807 --> 00:55:20,800
His harangues over the loudspeaker
were getting more and more frantic,
800
00:55:20,184 --> 00:55:23,481
and really just sounding
more and more insane.
801
00:55:24,290 --> 00:55:28,795
He had gotten to the place that
even his voice was becoming slurred,
802
00:55:29,790 --> 00:55:31,312
and he said it was because
803
00:55:31,343 --> 00:55:35,325
the nurse was giving him
the wrong medications.
804
00:55:35,471 --> 00:55:38,920
But yet still, everyday
it was getting worse and worse.
805
00:55:40,522 --> 00:55:42,372
Every night, at some point,
806
00:55:42,373 --> 00:55:45,373
his voice would come over
the loudspeaker and he’d say,
807
00:55:45,575 --> 00:55:47,856
“I’m sending somebody out tonight,
808
00:55:47,927 --> 00:55:50,834
somebody you know,
somebody you trust
809
00:55:50,930 --> 00:55:53,932
and they’re going to act like
they want to leave.
810
00:55:54,710 --> 00:55:58,355
But this is a loyalty test
and you need to turn them in.”
811
00:56:00,425 --> 00:56:03,981
A father would turn in a son.
A husband would turn in a wife.
812
00:56:04,530 --> 00:56:07,350
A small child would turn in a parent.
813
00:56:09,195 --> 00:56:14,194
There was no freedom to express
to one another what was going on,
814
00:56:14,252 --> 00:56:17,466
because everything was suspect.
815
00:56:17,862 --> 00:56:22,947
The most forbidden thing
to express was to leave.
816
00:56:24,316 --> 00:56:27,631
He had a real issue with separation.
817
00:56:28,632 --> 00:56:30,932
People could not leave him.
818
00:56:32,130 --> 00:56:37,937
He took it as a betrayal
to the cause, and to him personally.
819
00:56:39,331 --> 00:56:44,466
He said, “I really want to get away
from him. By Christmas, I will be gone.”
820
00:56:44,572 --> 00:56:49,330
By Christmas, do you want to be gone?
By Christmas, do you want to be gone?!
821
00:56:49,103 --> 00:56:51,672
By Christmas, do you want to be gone?!!
822
00:56:51,731 --> 00:56:55,570
I would ask you, could I go home
and make a trip to see my people?
823
00:56:55,141 --> 00:56:58,663
I have the power
to send you home by Christmas,
824
00:56:58,757 --> 00:57:01,148
but it’s not on Transworld Airlines.
825
00:57:01,275 --> 00:57:05,286
It’s blasphemy! It’s blasphemy
to talk about going back
826
00:57:05,369 --> 00:57:07,715
when you have not been
given any approval!
827
00:57:07,768 --> 00:57:10,400
Do you want to go home?
828
00:57:10,490 --> 00:57:13,425
- No.
- Well, then be seated and shut your mouth
829
00:57:13,426 --> 00:57:15,583
and don’t be in my face anymore.
830
00:57:21,149 --> 00:57:24,995
Congressman Ryan was unique
in the political sphere.
831
00:57:25,650 --> 00:57:29,300
He had this hands-on
approach to legislating.
832
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:32,504
He just didn’t take no for an answer.
833
00:57:32,576 --> 00:57:36,592
So when he was in the state assembly,
he went to Folsom State Prison
834
00:57:37,250 --> 00:57:39,140
and spent a week as an inmate
835
00:57:39,100 --> 00:57:42,881
to understand the prison issues
and prison reform.
836
00:57:43,999 --> 00:57:46,385
He became concerned
837
00:57:46,386 --> 00:57:51,586
because a number of residents
in San Mateo County had become
838
00:57:51,646 --> 00:57:53,158
members of the Peoples Temple
839
00:57:53,159 --> 00:57:56,159
and family members
started contacting him,
840
00:57:56,215 --> 00:57:59,151
concerned about
their whereabouts
841
00:57:59,184 --> 00:58:04,315
and concerned about whether or not
they were being held against their will.
842
00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:09,286
The word we were getting was
that there was an armed encampment.
843
00:58:10,797 --> 00:58:14,234
It was enough
for the Congressman to say,
844
00:58:14,289 --> 00:58:17,667
“You know what?
I want to go find out for myself.”
845
00:58:27,236 --> 00:58:31,410
There was a lot of preparation
for Congressman Ryan’s visit.
846
00:58:31,487 --> 00:58:35,922
There was all these different
scenarios that were presented.
847
00:58:36,177 --> 00:58:39,280
He wasn’t going to let him in.
He was going to let him in.
848
00:58:39,803 --> 00:58:41,291
We were going to wait
for them to come in
849
00:58:41,292 --> 00:58:43,692
and we were going to kill 'em all
when they came in.
850
00:58:44,573 --> 00:58:46,900
I was very fearful
about making the trip.
851
00:58:47,290 --> 00:58:49,586
I had a copy of the Congressman’s will
852
00:58:49,587 --> 00:58:53,987
and placed it in a
particular drawer in my desk,
853
00:58:55,386 --> 00:58:57,308
just in case.
854
00:59:04,745 --> 00:59:08,726
We flew in sometime
in the afternoon, about 6pm.
855
00:59:09,525 --> 00:59:14,515
We saw this beautiful sign,
“Welcome to Jonestown.”
856
00:59:16,330 --> 00:59:21,480
As we approached Jonestown,
it was spartan,
857
00:59:21,546 --> 00:59:25,474
but very impressive.
858
00:59:25,657 --> 00:59:28,285
How could you not be impressed that
859
00:59:28,362 --> 00:59:32,949
out of the jungles of Guyana,
they had carved out a community?
860
00:59:33,740 --> 00:59:37,870
They had crops growing.
They had cabins.
861
00:59:37,929 --> 00:59:41,184
They had a little medical clinic,
a little daycare area.
862
00:59:42,410 --> 00:59:46,190
Flour, rice, black-eyed peas,
863
00:59:46,891 --> 00:59:48,491
more peas.
864
00:59:48,492 --> 00:59:50,150
We have different containers
surrounding the place
865
00:59:50,283 --> 00:59:54,480
we couldn’t go through all of the tremendous
inventory they built up. Kool-aid...
866
01:00:04,293 --> 01:00:06,616
When Ryan came,
he came on a Friday night
867
01:00:07,617 --> 01:00:10,617
and we put on a reception for him.
868
01:00:11,485 --> 01:00:15,616
The songs that we sang
that night, it was people saying,
869
01:00:15,688 --> 01:00:18,400
“This is who we are
and this is what we are about.”
870
01:00:32,935 --> 01:00:35,569
It was a vibrant community.
871
01:00:35,970 --> 01:00:39,570
I would never have imagined
that twenty-four hours later,
872
01:00:39,639 --> 01:00:41,867
those people would be dead.
873
01:01:03,200 --> 01:01:06,805
Everything up to that point
was, was... was good.
874
01:01:06,858 --> 01:01:10,469
Everybody was thrilled
that Ryan was thrilled.
875
01:01:10,570 --> 01:01:12,270
He just kind of praised us.
876
01:01:12,339 --> 01:01:15,698
I think that all of you know that
I am here to find out more about...
877
01:01:15,784 --> 01:01:17,835
Questions have been raised
about your operation here.
878
01:01:17,947 --> 01:01:19,303
And I can tell you right now,
879
01:01:19,304 --> 01:01:22,204
that from the few conversations
I’ve had with some of the folks here
880
01:01:22,309 --> 01:01:23,581
already this evening,
881
01:01:23,582 --> 01:01:26,582
that whatever these comments are,
there are some people here who believe
882
01:01:26,670 --> 01:01:29,882
that this is the best thing
they’ve ever had in their whole lives.
883
01:01:38,436 --> 01:01:42,671
That response to him
was spontaneous. It was loud.
884
01:01:42,790 --> 01:01:45,519
It was emotional.
885
01:01:48,421 --> 01:01:53,989
What I was feeling was,
this is an opportunity that I can vocalize
886
01:01:54,129 --> 01:01:57,385
how much I believe
in what we are doing here.
887
01:01:57,619 --> 01:01:58,913
The reporter next to me said,
888
01:01:59,970 --> 01:02:01,440
“I’ve never felt anything
like this before,” and I said,
889
01:02:01,890 --> 01:02:04,828
“Because you haven’t felt
anything like this before.”
890
01:02:11,781 --> 01:02:14,753
I actually felt pretty good overall.
891
01:02:15,910 --> 01:02:19,297
This went probably as well
as it possibly could go, so far.
892
01:02:23,888 --> 01:02:28,109
When Congressman Ryan came,
I wanted to pass him a note
893
01:02:28,196 --> 01:02:31,540
that said, “Help us
get out of Jonestown.”
894
01:02:33,377 --> 01:02:38,310
When one of the reporters was walking
around toward the edge of the pavilion,
895
01:02:38,673 --> 01:02:44,533
I stuck the note in the fold of his arm
and it fell to the ground.
896
01:02:45,227 --> 01:02:47,961
And so I picked up the note and I...
and I gave it back to him.
897
01:02:47,962 --> 01:02:51,462
I said, “You dropped something,”
and this little boy, about nine years old,
898
01:02:51,541 --> 01:02:54,200
started saying,
“He passed a note! He passed a note!”
899
01:02:54,780 --> 01:02:57,360
Don Harris, who was the NBC reporter,
900
01:02:58,315 --> 01:03:01,204
came up to me and Congressman Ryan
901
01:03:01,276 --> 01:03:07,000
and handed us these two notes
from people that wanted to leave.
902
01:03:07,435 --> 01:03:08,935
So at that point,
903
01:03:09,736 --> 01:03:14,436
we knew that
something was very, very wrong.
904
01:03:28,266 --> 01:03:34,550
I was like the first to rise up
the following morning.
905
01:03:35,240 --> 01:03:40,422
It was a bright sunny day,
but it was a dark day.
906
01:03:41,120 --> 01:03:43,630
It just didn’t feel right.
907
01:03:43,129 --> 01:03:46,622
We were there, supposed to interview
some of the family members
908
01:03:46,730 --> 01:03:49,350
to ask them why they cannot leave.
909
01:03:49,380 --> 01:03:50,550
Are you happy here?
910
01:03:50,575 --> 01:03:53,432
Oh, I should say I am.
I’ve never been any happier in my life.
911
01:03:53,440 --> 01:03:54,940
Do you want to stay?
912
01:03:54,941 --> 01:03:58,496
Definitely.
I certainly do.
913
01:03:58,576 --> 01:04:02,259
Some people have said
they couldn’t leave if they wanted to.
914
01:04:02,368 --> 01:04:04,880
Do you think you could?
915
01:04:04,167 --> 01:04:06,783
Yeah. If I really wanted to
I’m... I’m free to go,
916
01:04:06,817 --> 01:04:10,161
if I really wanted to.
I would be free to go.
917
01:04:10,351 --> 01:04:14,170
Well, I believe it. I’ve been here
a few days and I have...
918
01:04:14,180 --> 01:04:16,180
I have absolutely
no complaints at all.
919
01:04:16,129 --> 01:04:19,130
It is really nice here.
It is really nice.
920
01:04:19,188 --> 01:04:21,533
And I’ll be leaving in a couple weeks
921
01:04:21,631 --> 01:04:24,838
and they could come with me,
but they said they didn’t want to come.
922
01:04:28,575 --> 01:04:32,315
Literally, out of nowhere,
this storm came blowing in.
923
01:04:32,407 --> 01:04:35,839
The sky turned black.
The wind came up and it just,
924
01:04:35,932 --> 01:04:38,342
torrential rain.
925
01:04:39,209 --> 01:04:45,990
But what I personally felt was
that evil itself blew into Jonestown.
926
01:04:48,687 --> 01:04:50,807
It was about 11:30 in the morning.
927
01:04:51,800 --> 01:04:53,908
Edith Parks walked up to
Jackie Speier and said,
928
01:04:53,968 --> 01:04:56,976
“I’m being held prisoner here,
I want to go home.”
929
01:04:57,930 --> 01:04:59,745
Now do I both
understand you to say that
930
01:04:59,746 --> 01:05:02,746
you both want to leave
Jonestown on this date,
931
01:05:02,850 --> 01:05:05,103
November 18th, 1978?
932
01:05:05,173 --> 01:05:07,960
Immediately,
the whole vibe changed.
933
01:05:08,270 --> 01:05:10,369
I mean this reporter said,
“We got our story.”
934
01:05:10,370 --> 01:05:12,370
You know, “The story’s here.
It’s happening right now.”
935
01:05:12,416 --> 01:05:17,320
Jim Jones came to talk to me
and the first thing he said was,
936
01:05:17,614 --> 01:05:21,528
“Don’t say anything to the reporters.
They’re all liars.”
937
01:05:22,405 --> 01:05:24,901
The last words I heard
from Jim Jones was,
938
01:05:24,902 --> 01:05:28,735
“I just want you to know that
you can come back to Jonestown
939
01:05:28,795 --> 01:05:31,256
and visit your son
any time you want.”
940
01:05:31,368 --> 01:05:35,109
Last night, someone came
and passed me this note.
941
01:05:36,120 --> 01:05:38,267
He’s the one that
I’m just talking about.
942
01:05:39,468 --> 01:05:42,268
This is the man that
wants to leave his son here.
943
01:05:43,662 --> 01:05:47,490
Doesn’t it concern you, though,
that this man, for whatever reason,
944
01:05:47,605 --> 01:05:49,467
one of the people in your group…
945
01:05:49,526 --> 01:05:53,328
People play games, friend.
They lie. They lie.
946
01:05:53,404 --> 01:05:54,728
What can I do about liars?
947
01:05:54,816 --> 01:05:59,730
Are you people going to leave us.
I just beg you, please leave us.
948
01:05:59,190 --> 01:06:01,133
Bill, we will bother nobody.
949
01:06:01,134 --> 01:06:03,234
Anybody wants to
get out of here, can get out of here.
950
01:06:03,352 --> 01:06:05,240
They have no problem
about getting out of here.
951
01:06:05,650 --> 01:06:09,990
They come and go all the time.
I don’t know what kind of games people like.
952
01:06:09,132 --> 01:06:12,499
Who... people like publicity.
Some people do. I don’t.
953
01:06:13,115 --> 01:06:14,313
But some people like publicity.
954
01:06:14,386 --> 01:06:17,967
But if it’s so damned bad,
why is he leaving his son here?
955
01:06:18,418 --> 01:06:20,561
Can you give me
a good reason for that?
956
01:06:20,629 --> 01:06:24,845
When word got out
that people were leaving,
957
01:06:26,363 --> 01:06:27,919
all hell broke out.
958
01:06:27,983 --> 01:06:30,463
You bring those kids back here!
959
01:06:30,648 --> 01:06:32,930
You bring them back!
960
01:06:33,282 --> 01:06:35,481
Don’t you touch my kids!
961
01:06:36,371 --> 01:06:38,290
More people wanted to leave.
962
01:06:38,375 --> 01:06:42,933
And then Jim Jones started
to make pleas to people, saying,
963
01:06:43,240 --> 01:06:46,361
“You can’t leave.
You’re my people.
964
01:06:46,838 --> 01:06:48,941
Why do you want to leave?”
965
01:06:50,437 --> 01:06:54,702
It was an emotional roller coaster
for everyone there.
966
01:06:54,759 --> 01:06:57,159
Don’t you touch my kids!
967
01:06:58,360 --> 01:06:59,460
Mother!
968
01:06:59,961 --> 01:07:02,761
You’re not taking my kids!
No!
969
01:07:04,681 --> 01:07:06,914
Jones was in the pavilion.
970
01:07:07,915 --> 01:07:09,115
At one point, he said,
971
01:07:09,179 --> 01:07:10,765
“Well, of course
you can go if you want.”
972
01:07:10,799 --> 01:07:13,593
But clearly,
that was not the message.
973
01:07:13,629 --> 01:07:16,341
The message was,
“You are betraying me.”
974
01:07:18,462 --> 01:07:21,893
I went and I spoke to
the Congressman in the pavilion.
975
01:07:22,819 --> 01:07:28,622
I told him, “You are in extreme danger.
You need to leave.”
976
01:07:30,121 --> 01:07:32,822
And he said, “You don’t have
anything to worry about.”
977
01:07:32,944 --> 01:07:36,780
He says, “You have the Congressional
shield of protection around you.”
978
01:07:37,462 --> 01:07:42,437
And I just looked at him
like he was totally insane.
979
01:07:43,507 --> 01:07:45,803
Congressman Ryan was
directly across from me,
980
01:07:45,901 --> 01:07:49,509
and I saw this Temple member
walk up behind him
981
01:07:49,598 --> 01:07:52,208
and he was actually
crying and shaking
982
01:07:52,282 --> 01:07:55,596
and all of a sudden,
he pulled out this knife and said,
983
01:07:55,640 --> 01:07:57,848
“All right, motherfucker,
you’re gonna die.”
984
01:07:57,927 --> 01:08:01,299
We all jumped on him,
and there were just screams of horror
985
01:08:01,372 --> 01:08:02,961
everywhere.
986
01:08:03,790 --> 01:08:08,601
We heard this great uproar
in the pavilion and the truck stopped.
987
01:08:09,500 --> 01:08:12,443
Then, shortly thereafter,
Congressman Ryan starts walking out
988
01:08:12,515 --> 01:08:14,862
in this bloodstained shirt.
989
01:08:16,414 --> 01:08:20,394
Those of us in the news media
viewed Congressman Ryan
990
01:08:20,502 --> 01:08:25,900
as a form of protection,
a shield of the United States.
991
01:08:26,211 --> 01:08:29,327
What happened there
in those few moments
992
01:08:29,401 --> 01:08:33,130
made it clear that nobody was safe.
993
01:08:38,101 --> 01:08:41,258
I went back to my cottage.
994
01:08:41,394 --> 01:08:44,677
All I wanted to do was
see my wife and my son.
995
01:08:45,526 --> 01:08:47,804
Gloria and I were laid down
on the cot and we just held each other
996
01:08:47,898 --> 01:08:50,168
and I said, “You know,
I think we may all die.”
997
01:08:50,283 --> 01:08:54,112
And she said, she kind of looked at me
and then she looked down at our son,
998
01:08:54,197 --> 01:08:56,206
who was playing on the floor
with the toys,
999
01:08:56,280 --> 01:08:58,246
and she said,
“You’re scaring him.”
1000
01:08:58,426 --> 01:09:02,213
I had literally opened my mouth
to say we need to leave,
1001
01:09:02,443 --> 01:09:04,168
when there was an
announcement on the loud speaker,
1002
01:09:04,169 --> 01:09:07,369
“Will everybody report to
the pavilion for a meeting.”
1003
01:09:19,970 --> 01:09:22,407
We drove back
to the airstrip, Port Kaituma.
1004
01:09:23,911 --> 01:09:29,593
All of a sudden, we saw a dump truck
from far away arriving to this airstrip.
1005
01:09:29,887 --> 01:09:33,900
We realized these people
catch up from people from Jim Jones,
1006
01:09:33,910 --> 01:09:36,910
they’re very close lieutenant
to Jim Jones.
1007
01:09:39,318 --> 01:09:40,902
These three guys,
1008
01:09:40,903 --> 01:09:43,203
they get off the truck
and walk around this area
1009
01:09:43,400 --> 01:09:45,496
as though they were
looking for somebody.
1010
01:09:45,569 --> 01:09:47,499
They looked in people’s faces.
1011
01:09:47,584 --> 01:09:50,125
They stared at us for a little bit,
but they didn’t say one word.
1012
01:09:50,220 --> 01:09:52,560
They didn’t ask anything.
1013
01:09:52,163 --> 01:09:54,287
Right away,
they walked back to the truck.
1014
01:09:55,400 --> 01:10:00,780
They drove this truck
all the way across the airstrip
1015
01:10:00,220 --> 01:10:02,894
and stop on this side of the plane,
1016
01:10:03,180 --> 01:10:06,328
so literally
they cut us off from the jungle.
1017
01:10:08,345 --> 01:10:12,258
We never know there’s people
hidden inside the dump truck.
1018
01:10:12,351 --> 01:10:15,575
The moment it stopped,
they start shooting right away.
1019
01:10:19,851 --> 01:10:23,513
Everybody ran toward the plane,
on this side of plane.
1020
01:10:23,603 --> 01:10:25,918
They try to hide
underneath the wheels.
1021
01:10:25,973 --> 01:10:30,209
Then the Congressman ran under
the plane, and I sort of followed suit
1022
01:10:30,325 --> 01:10:33,534
and got behind one of the tires.
1023
01:10:36,124 --> 01:10:40,378
All you can hear is the gun
"pop, pop, pop" goes off constantly.
1024
01:10:40,795 --> 01:10:44,450
We lie flat on the tarmac
at that moment.
1025
01:10:44,540 --> 01:10:49,980
But shortly afterwards,
I heard my partner, the cameraman.
1026
01:10:49,206 --> 01:10:52,497
He yelled, “Oh shit.” He said he got...
he got shot. He was sitting up.
1027
01:10:54,985 --> 01:10:58,242
There were people
tumbling and yelling
1028
01:10:58,443 --> 01:11:01,743
and letting out cries
as they were hit.
1029
01:11:02,818 --> 01:11:06,410
I was hit in my arm and wrist.
1030
01:11:06,402 --> 01:11:09,850
I felt a tremendous explosion,
right next to my head.
1031
01:11:09,960 --> 01:11:14,689
I got a tremendous pain
ran through my arm and on my shoulder.
1032
01:11:15,580 --> 01:11:17,705
I was really shaking,
but I didn’t move.
1033
01:11:17,796 --> 01:11:20,635
I took the pain and hold still.
1034
01:11:21,870 --> 01:11:25,914
I was lying on my side,
pretending that I was dead,
1035
01:11:26,440 --> 01:11:28,316
with my head down.
And...
1036
01:11:32,898 --> 01:11:37,982
they came and shot me
at point blank,
1037
01:11:38,283 --> 01:11:40,283
point blank range.
1038
01:11:41,749 --> 01:11:44,746
I remember someone coming to me
1039
01:11:44,815 --> 01:11:47,390
and telling me that
Congressman Ryan was dead.
1040
01:11:47,469 --> 01:11:51,910
But I was at a point where
I didn’t know
1041
01:11:51,191 --> 01:11:54,559
how much more time
I was going to be alive.
1042
01:11:59,140 --> 01:12:02,412
The gun’s dead and all we can hear
this one engine was still running.
1043
01:12:02,507 --> 01:12:05,982
So all you could hear
the engine noise. And that’s it.
1044
01:12:17,341 --> 01:12:20,687
We walked up to the pavilion
together, with everybody else.
1045
01:12:20,764 --> 01:12:23,882
It was very quiet.
It was very somber. It was very sad,
1046
01:12:24,200 --> 01:12:26,723
but it wasn’t a death march.
1047
01:12:27,198 --> 01:12:28,936
The congressman is dead!
1048
01:12:31,569 --> 01:12:34,331
You think they’re going to
allow us to get by with this?
1049
01:12:35,992 --> 01:12:39,705
You must be insane. They’ll torture
some of our children here.
1050
01:12:39,749 --> 01:12:41,730
They’ll torture our people.
They’ll torture our seniors.
1051
01:12:41,731 --> 01:12:43,431
We can not have this!
1052
01:12:43,849 --> 01:12:45,779
He said, “Well, we got to go.
1053
01:12:46,380 --> 01:12:49,280
We got to get out of here.
We got to... we got to go to sleep.
1054
01:12:50,159 --> 01:12:52,413
Get the solution together.”
1055
01:12:52,497 --> 01:12:56,361
If we can’t live in peace,
then let’s die in peace.
1056
01:12:58,766 --> 01:13:01,395
Maria Katsaris walked up to him
and whispered in his ear,
1057
01:13:01,463 --> 01:13:04,778
and he looked at her and said, “Is there
anyway to make it taste less bitter?”
1058
01:13:05,758 --> 01:13:07,800
And she said,
“No, no apparently not.”
1059
01:13:07,895 --> 01:13:09,786
And he said, “Is it quick?”
1060
01:13:09,889 --> 01:13:13,182
And she said,
“Yeah, it’s supposed to be quick.”
1061
01:13:13,309 --> 01:13:17,559
Anyone that has any
dissenting opinion, please speak.
1062
01:13:18,583 --> 01:13:21,445
When we destroy ourselves,
we’re defeated.
1063
01:13:21,823 --> 01:13:24,668
We let them,
the enemies, defeat us.
1064
01:13:24,859 --> 01:13:27,917
On the last day of Jonestown,
Christine Miller stood up and said,
1065
01:13:27,984 --> 01:13:29,363
“I don’t want to die here.
1066
01:13:29,426 --> 01:13:32,988
Why are we going to throw
all this away? We’ve worked too hard.”
1067
01:13:33,830 --> 01:13:36,126
I look at all the babies,
and I think they deserve to live.
1068
01:13:36,224 --> 01:13:40,426
I agree, but also they deserve…
What’s more, they deserve peace.
1069
01:13:42,241 --> 01:13:47,489
We all came here for peace.
Is it too late for Russia?
1070
01:13:47,878 --> 01:13:51,830
She’s calling Jim Jones
on some of the things that
1071
01:13:51,182 --> 01:13:54,164
he has promised them
that they were going to do.
1072
01:13:54,917 --> 01:13:59,130
Jim had promised, as an
alternative to them dying in Jonestown,
1073
01:13:59,100 --> 01:14:01,522
that they could go
to the Soviet Union.
1074
01:14:01,604 --> 01:14:03,904
I’m listening to you.
You asked me about Russia.
1075
01:14:03,977 --> 01:14:05,936
I’m right now
making a call to Russia.
1076
01:14:06,360 --> 01:14:08,195
What more do you suggest?
1077
01:14:08,300 --> 01:14:10,377
Eventually, the rhetoric
ratchets up enough
1078
01:14:10,378 --> 01:14:12,780
that she is shouted down.
1079
01:14:12,188 --> 01:14:15,695
Christine, your life
has been extended to today.
1080
01:14:15,763 --> 01:14:18,375
That you’re standing there
is because of him.
1081
01:14:19,677 --> 01:14:22,800
That’s when I noticed
that there were armed guards
1082
01:14:22,874 --> 01:14:25,350
that had kind of taken positions
up around the pavilion.
1083
01:14:25,551 --> 01:14:26,751
I’m thinking,
1084
01:14:26,854 --> 01:14:29,594
“Where did all of these
fucking guns come from?”
1085
01:14:31,344 --> 01:14:35,823
Jones came down off the podium
1086
01:14:35,924 --> 01:14:39,624
and he said,
“Hey, we got to do this.
1087
01:14:40,238 --> 01:14:42,470
We got to... we got to go,
1088
01:14:42,148 --> 01:14:45,681
that if we don’t go this way,
we going to go like this.”
1089
01:14:46,991 --> 01:14:49,771
They were coming,
taking like newborn babies
1090
01:14:49,972 --> 01:14:51,672
out of their mothers’ arms.
1091
01:14:51,822 --> 01:14:54,605
Mother, mother, mother,
mother, mother please.
1092
01:14:55,360 --> 01:14:58,825
Mother, please,
please, please don’t…
1093
01:14:58,826 --> 01:15:00,826
Don’t do this!
Don’t do this!
1094
01:15:02,498 --> 01:15:06,115
Lay down your life with your child.
But don’t do this.
1095
01:15:09,758 --> 01:15:13,416
There was a young kid,
his name was Sunny
1096
01:15:13,917 --> 01:15:15,917
and when he came inside,
1097
01:15:16,218 --> 01:15:18,818
he bumped into me.
1098
01:15:19,280 --> 01:15:21,151
At that same time,
he’s falling to the ground
1099
01:15:21,152 --> 01:15:23,552
and he’s going into convulsion.
1100
01:15:23,640 --> 01:15:26,175
Hurry, hurry, my children, hurry!
1101
01:15:26,176 --> 01:15:29,176
All right, let us not fall
into the hands of the enemy.
1102
01:15:29,225 --> 01:15:32,616
Hurry my children!
Hurry!
1103
01:15:32,676 --> 01:15:36,750
I grabbed the kid
from the shoulders up,
1104
01:15:37,510 --> 01:15:41,251
and in that process of
taking him out of the pavilion,
1105
01:15:41,696 --> 01:15:43,874
this kid died in my arms.
1106
01:15:43,875 --> 01:15:47,875
I mean, I just felt
the life go out of him.
1107
01:15:47,968 --> 01:15:52,930
To me... at that point,
I knew that this shit was real.
1108
01:15:54,324 --> 01:15:57,752
Die with respect,
die with a degree of dignity.
1109
01:15:57,907 --> 01:16:00,927
It’s nothing to death, it’s just
stepping over into another plane.
1110
01:16:00,928 --> 01:16:03,280
Don’t, don’t be this way!
1111
01:16:04,953 --> 01:16:07,460
I ain’t never used
the term “suicide,”
1112
01:16:07,470 --> 01:16:09,747
and I’m not gonna never
use the term “suicide.”
1113
01:16:09,881 --> 01:16:12,613
That man killed... was killing us.
1114
01:16:13,653 --> 01:16:16,671
As I walked up
to the back of the pavilion,
1115
01:16:16,672 --> 01:16:20,372
I saw a woman named Rosie
on the ground crying,
1116
01:16:20,373 --> 01:16:22,373
holding her dead baby.
1117
01:16:22,467 --> 01:16:25,485
There were maybe eight
or nine other people who were dying,
1118
01:16:25,486 --> 01:16:27,586
or in the process of dying.
1119
01:16:27,741 --> 01:16:33,387
Inside, I just wanted things to stop.
Please, just let me catch my breath,
1120
01:16:33,533 --> 01:16:36,467
let me figure out
what’s happening here.
1121
01:16:38,330 --> 01:16:41,650
I looked to my right
and I saw my wife,
1122
01:16:41,654 --> 01:16:44,163
with our son in her arms
1123
01:16:44,564 --> 01:16:48,164
and poison
being injected into his mouth.
1124
01:16:49,561 --> 01:16:52,413
My son was dead and
he was frothing at the mouth.
1125
01:16:52,485 --> 01:16:55,536
You know, cyanide
makes people froth at the mouth.
1126
01:16:56,763 --> 01:16:58,594
My wife died in my arms
1127
01:16:58,709 --> 01:17:01,566
and my dead baby son
was in her arms.
1128
01:17:01,627 --> 01:17:06,850
And I held her and said, “I love you,
I love you,” because it’s all I could say.
1129
01:17:10,185 --> 01:17:11,990
She died in my arms, man.
1130
01:17:12,760 --> 01:17:15,169
Quickly! Quickly!
Quickly! Quickly! Quickly!
1131
01:17:17,151 --> 01:17:19,601
Where is the vat?
The vat, the vat…
1132
01:17:19,726 --> 01:17:22,287
Bring it here,
so the adults can begin.
1133
01:17:24,479 --> 01:17:27,924
My wife came up to me,
she didn’t have no tears in her eyes.
1134
01:17:27,972 --> 01:17:30,891
She just was...
was just in a daze.
1135
01:17:31,939 --> 01:17:36,757
“My mother, my grandmother,
my sister, my brother, they gone."
1136
01:17:36,920 --> 01:17:40,670
You know she said,
“Just take me. Just take me
1137
01:17:40,871 --> 01:17:44,671
and just lay me down
next to my grandmamma.”
1138
01:17:45,127 --> 01:17:47,927
And she went up to that Kool-Aid,
1139
01:17:47,928 --> 01:17:49,828
to that death barrel
1140
01:17:50,328 --> 01:17:53,704
and she just, didn’t hesitate,
just took it and drunk it
1141
01:17:53,771 --> 01:17:56,957
and then told me to hold her,
to take her, and I did.
1142
01:17:57,260 --> 01:17:59,470
And she died in my arms.
1143
01:18:00,248 --> 01:18:02,548
And once I laid her down
1144
01:18:02,597 --> 01:18:06,373
and she told me how she wanted to
lay with her grandmother,
1145
01:18:06,633 --> 01:18:09,874
I... at that point, knew that
1146
01:18:10,175 --> 01:18:12,875
I didn’t have no reason
to be here no more.
1147
01:18:14,346 --> 01:18:17,790
We laid it down, we got tired.
1148
01:18:21,116 --> 01:18:22,841
We didn’t commit suicide.
1149
01:18:22,842 --> 01:18:25,142
We committed an
act of revolutionary suicide
1150
01:18:25,246 --> 01:18:29,502
protesting the conditions
of an inhumane world.
1151
01:18:34,571 --> 01:18:36,571
We were just fucking slaughtered.
1152
01:18:37,772 --> 01:18:39,813
Fucking slaughtered.
1153
01:18:40,814 --> 01:18:42,814
There was nothing dignified about it.
1154
01:18:42,909 --> 01:18:44,819
Had nothing to do
with revolutionary suicide,
1155
01:18:44,902 --> 01:18:46,762
nothing to do about
making a fucking statement,
1156
01:18:47,163 --> 01:18:50,163
it was just senseless waste,
1157
01:18:50,398 --> 01:18:53,670
senseless waste and death.
1158
01:18:56,712 --> 01:18:59,257
“To whomever finds this note.
1159
01:19:00,258 --> 01:19:02,258
Collect all the tapes,
1160
01:19:02,498 --> 01:19:05,682
all the writing, all the history.
1161
01:19:06,396 --> 01:19:08,658
The story of this movement,
1162
01:19:08,780 --> 01:19:13,701
this action, must be
examined over and over.
1163
01:19:14,323 --> 01:19:16,912
We did not want this kind of ending.
1164
01:19:17,413 --> 01:19:20,413
We wanted to live, to shine,
1165
01:19:20,534 --> 01:19:25,725
to bring light to a world
that is dying for a little bit of love.”
1166
01:19:26,563 --> 01:19:28,851
I never believed in
Heaven in my whole life.
1167
01:19:28,852 --> 01:19:30,852
You know, that’s not the way
I operated
1168
01:19:30,908 --> 01:19:33,591
but when I was in Guyana,
and when I’d watch the sun rise,
1169
01:19:33,647 --> 01:19:36,872
I actually thought
there was a heaven on Earth.
1170
01:19:41,381 --> 01:19:44,624
And now, I can’t
believe in heaven anymore.
1171
01:19:45,137 --> 01:19:47,981
“There’s quiet
as we leave this world.
1172
01:19:48,114 --> 01:19:49,978
The sky is gray.
1173
01:19:50,179 --> 01:19:54,979
People file by us slowly
and take the somewhat bitter drink.
1174
01:19:55,484 --> 01:19:57,878
Many more must drink.”
1175
01:19:58,492 --> 01:20:01,369
I’m saddened
because it didn’t work out.
1176
01:20:01,547 --> 01:20:04,292
Because it just seemed so beautiful.
1177
01:20:05,800 --> 01:20:07,918
And I’ll say this
about November 18th,
1178
01:20:08,480 --> 01:20:11,667
I felt I’d lost a family
1179
01:20:12,722 --> 01:20:15,625
and I knew I’d lost my children.
1180
01:20:16,838 --> 01:20:20,635
“A teeny kitten
sits next to me watching.
1181
01:20:20,849 --> 01:20:23,420
A dog barks.
1182
01:20:23,434 --> 01:20:26,883
The birds gather
on the telephone wires.
1183
01:20:27,730 --> 01:20:31,712
Let all the story of this
Peoples Temple be told.”
1184
01:20:33,483 --> 01:20:36,524
We were people that...
We wanted to make a change.
1185
01:20:36,690 --> 01:20:40,980
It’s a shame it didn’t happen.
It might not never happen.
1186
01:20:41,150 --> 01:20:44,540
But one thing I can say,
at least we tried
1187
01:20:44,110 --> 01:20:48,529
and we didn’t sit back and wait
on the laurels for somebody else to try it.
1188
01:20:48,586 --> 01:20:51,518
Yes, we tried it.
Yes, it was a failure.
1189
01:20:51,586 --> 01:20:53,746
Yes, it was very tragic.
1190
01:20:53,848 --> 01:20:57,660
But at least we tried.
1191
01:20:58,364 --> 01:21:02,628
“If nobody understands,
it matters not.
1192
01:21:03,146 --> 01:21:05,497
I am ready to die now.
1193
01:21:05,821 --> 01:21:08,846
Darkness settles over Jonestown
1194
01:21:09,347 --> 01:21:12,347
on its last day on Earth.”
1195
01:21:12,915 --> 01:21:15,782
I never had any dreams of Jonestown
1196
01:21:16,383 --> 01:21:18,783
until this one dream came.
1197
01:21:19,434 --> 01:21:22,161
I could see myself
in Jonestown walking,
1198
01:21:22,259 --> 01:21:26,200
and when I looked to my left,
there was my son.
1199
01:21:26,786 --> 01:21:30,575
He was standing
in the middle of a duffel bag.
1200
01:21:30,721 --> 01:21:34,253
And just right when I got ready
to reach to touch his head,
1201
01:21:34,330 --> 01:21:35,973
he pulled the bag up like this.
1202
01:21:36,202 --> 01:21:40,100
And the bag fell and he was gone.
100840
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