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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:08,500 --> 00:00:10,540 My mother was Ingrid Bergman. 2 00:00:10,540 --> 00:00:14,220 She was a big Hollywood star in the '40s. 3 00:00:14,220 --> 00:00:18,820 And right after the war, she went to Europe to entertain the troops 4 00:00:18,820 --> 00:00:22,340 and, when she stopped in Paris, she met Robert Capa, 5 00:00:22,340 --> 00:00:25,500 who had been the great photographer of the Second World War. 6 00:00:25,500 --> 00:00:29,100 They met at the Ritz Hotel and they liked each other immensely. 7 00:00:29,100 --> 00:00:31,020 And then, eventually, they fell in love. 8 00:00:33,100 --> 00:00:36,900 And then he ran into her again in Berlin a few weeks later. 9 00:00:36,900 --> 00:00:39,060 They were really in love. 10 00:00:39,060 --> 00:00:41,300 At least, she was definitely in love, 11 00:00:41,300 --> 00:00:44,940 because she wrote about it in her memoirs. 12 00:00:44,940 --> 00:00:46,780 And this is how I came to know about it. 13 00:00:46,780 --> 00:00:49,780 Mamma gave me the manuscript before the book was published. 14 00:00:49,780 --> 00:00:52,380 And I read, and I was completely surprised. 15 00:00:52,380 --> 00:00:55,460 And I said, you had an affair with Robert Capa! 16 00:00:55,460 --> 00:00:56,620 That was my hero! 17 00:00:57,980 --> 00:01:01,820 Capa was hoping to get into the movies himself. 18 00:01:01,820 --> 00:01:06,420 And she went to Hollywood to do a film with Alfred Hitchcock. 19 00:01:06,420 --> 00:01:07,660 And Capa went along. 20 00:01:10,580 --> 00:01:13,780 Back in Hollywood, Ingrid Bergman was still a married woman, 21 00:01:13,780 --> 00:01:15,620 and a scandal could ruin her career. 22 00:01:20,060 --> 00:01:23,900 A shoot for Life magazine gave Robert Capa a pretext to join her 23 00:01:23,900 --> 00:01:26,300 discreetly on the set of Notorious. 24 00:01:29,220 --> 00:01:34,260 This first series of on-set photos taken by a photographer in love with an actress 25 00:01:35,420 --> 00:01:39,140 perfectly illustrate the close ties that bind Magnum photographers 26 00:01:39,140 --> 00:01:40,340 and the world of cinema. 27 00:01:57,060 --> 00:02:02,020 From the day it was created in 1947, Magnum Photos made history. 28 00:02:02,100 --> 00:02:04,940 Founded by Robert Capa, David Seymour... 29 00:02:06,100 --> 00:02:09,860 ..George Rodger and Henri Cartier-Bresson, 30 00:02:09,860 --> 00:02:13,580 it was the first agency to assert the independence of photographers 31 00:02:13,580 --> 00:02:15,700 and to fight to protect their rights. 32 00:02:15,700 --> 00:02:18,700 Today, Magnum has about 70 active members 33 00:02:18,700 --> 00:02:21,500 that include some of the most famous names in photography. 34 00:02:23,020 --> 00:02:27,060 In these boxes are some of history's most iconic images - 35 00:02:27,060 --> 00:02:31,020 printed proof of photojournalism's commitment to observing the world. 36 00:02:34,340 --> 00:02:37,380 But there are also pictures that have come to define cinema... 37 00:02:39,220 --> 00:02:43,260 ..pictures taken by a handful of photographers occasionally stopping off on 38 00:02:43,260 --> 00:02:45,740 a film set as they travelled between war zones. 39 00:02:47,380 --> 00:02:52,380 It was chance in the person of Robert Capa that brought these two worlds together. 40 00:02:53,980 --> 00:02:57,340 Capa was born in Budapest and then studied in Germany 41 00:02:57,340 --> 00:03:00,260 and then came to Paris in 1933. 42 00:03:00,260 --> 00:03:02,100 And during that time, 43 00:03:02,100 --> 00:03:05,020 I think film and cinema played a very important role 44 00:03:05,020 --> 00:03:09,180 in the imagination of what he could potentially aspire to do. 45 00:03:09,180 --> 00:03:12,900 In some of the early letters he writes to his mother from Paris, 46 00:03:12,900 --> 00:03:15,780 he talks about being a film-maker some day, 47 00:03:15,780 --> 00:03:17,340 "One day, I will be great and big." 48 00:03:38,500 --> 00:03:40,780 Throughout Robert Capa's life, 49 00:03:40,780 --> 00:03:43,620 cinema provided an imaginative escape from reality 50 00:03:43,620 --> 00:03:46,580 and his reputation as a war photographer. 51 00:03:56,220 --> 00:04:00,380 Ernest Hemingway, who had met Robert Capa during the Spanish Civil War, 52 00:04:00,380 --> 00:04:03,540 first opened the doors to Hollywood. 53 00:04:03,540 --> 00:04:08,580 He went to Sun Valley to visit Hemingway in 1940 and then 1941. 54 00:04:09,180 --> 00:04:11,460 And he met various Hollywood celebrities - 55 00:04:11,460 --> 00:04:14,220 Gary Cooper and Howard Hawks there. 56 00:04:14,220 --> 00:04:18,700 You know, he was an incredibly playful, joyful character in person. 57 00:04:18,700 --> 00:04:21,540 He could charm anyone - men as well as women, 58 00:04:21,540 --> 00:04:24,260 directors and businesspeople. 59 00:04:24,260 --> 00:04:25,500 He usually got his way. 60 00:04:29,580 --> 00:04:31,140 In 1941, 61 00:04:31,140 --> 00:04:35,540 the attack on Pearl Harbor hastened the US entry into the war, and Capa 62 00:04:35,540 --> 00:04:37,180 was finally able to travel to Europe. 63 00:04:38,300 --> 00:04:42,460 Throughout the war, Capa extended his circle of Hollywood friends, 64 00:04:42,460 --> 00:04:44,540 often around a poker table. 65 00:04:44,540 --> 00:04:45,620 Capa, of course, 66 00:04:45,620 --> 00:04:50,620 had this close relationship with a lot of the film directors who were 67 00:04:51,020 --> 00:04:52,380 in the American army. 68 00:04:52,380 --> 00:04:54,900 Or at least attached to the army, 69 00:04:54,900 --> 00:04:57,180 as Robert Capa was attached to 70 00:04:57,180 --> 00:04:59,580 the army while not being in it. 71 00:04:59,580 --> 00:05:02,380 FROM FRENCH: 72 00:05:44,900 --> 00:05:49,180 He is thinking about a cinemagraphic visual experience 73 00:05:49,180 --> 00:05:50,980 in much of his work. I'm thinking 74 00:05:50,980 --> 00:05:55,220 particularly in North Africa, where there's a plane landing on a strip. 75 00:05:55,220 --> 00:05:56,300 It's all barren, 76 00:05:56,300 --> 00:05:58,460 and there's one man waiting for the plane to arrive. 77 00:05:58,460 --> 00:06:02,820 It's really just out of a Hitchcock film. 78 00:06:02,820 --> 00:06:04,260 And then other scenes of the desert, 79 00:06:04,260 --> 00:06:06,780 of these camels rushing for him. 80 00:06:06,780 --> 00:06:08,980 I mean, again, Lawrence Of Arabia. 81 00:06:08,980 --> 00:06:12,180 He had a visual sense for the dramatic 82 00:06:12,180 --> 00:06:14,180 when, frankly, there wasn't a lot of story. 83 00:06:14,180 --> 00:06:18,180 So, with the little elements that he had to photograph, he had to really 84 00:06:18,180 --> 00:06:20,100 make them hold the drama. 85 00:06:21,340 --> 00:06:23,940 When he joined Ingrid Bergman in 1946, 86 00:06:23,940 --> 00:06:26,340 Capa was no stranger to Hollywood. 87 00:06:26,340 --> 00:06:30,220 He had even been hired by a studio as an apprentice producer director. 88 00:06:30,220 --> 00:06:32,340 But he was not very comfortable in Hollywood. 89 00:06:32,340 --> 00:06:34,260 In Hollywood, you can only get 90 00:06:34,260 --> 00:06:36,260 around if you're a good driver. 91 00:06:36,260 --> 00:06:37,740 He was a terrible driver. 92 00:06:37,740 --> 00:06:40,620 He actually crashed a car out there. 93 00:06:40,620 --> 00:06:42,580 Capa quickly lost interest in Hollywood. 94 00:06:42,580 --> 00:06:44,420 He preferred being a reporter. 95 00:06:44,420 --> 00:06:47,340 And Ingrid Bergman was talking about marriage and family. 96 00:06:47,340 --> 00:06:50,820 Robert felt that he was not the husband type, 97 00:06:50,820 --> 00:06:53,380 meaning that he knew that eventually 98 00:06:53,380 --> 00:06:55,660 he was going to die in a conflict. 99 00:06:55,660 --> 00:06:57,020 And he did die. And I think that 100 00:06:57,020 --> 00:06:59,220 Mamma always said that, if it had been her choice, 101 00:06:59,220 --> 00:07:01,820 she would have married him, but he wasn't available. 102 00:07:01,820 --> 00:07:05,420 But then she married my dad, who was kind of a similar type. 103 00:07:07,180 --> 00:07:12,260 He said goodbye to Bergman and came back to New York in the spring of 1947. 104 00:07:12,740 --> 00:07:14,500 I went to see him. 105 00:07:14,500 --> 00:07:18,940 And he was very depressed because his expedition to Hollywood 106 00:07:18,940 --> 00:07:20,620 had not worked out. 107 00:07:22,820 --> 00:07:25,260 It was in New York in the restaurant 108 00:07:25,260 --> 00:07:28,100 at MoMA that Magnum Photos was conceived. 109 00:07:28,100 --> 00:07:31,540 Well, Magnum really was his idea. 110 00:07:31,540 --> 00:07:35,820 It was something that he had dreamed about since 1938, if not before. 111 00:07:35,820 --> 00:07:40,100 The idea that an agency could really manage a photographer's work while 112 00:07:40,100 --> 00:07:43,140 they are out in the field photographing and making the story. 113 00:07:44,740 --> 00:07:47,580 The young agency was revolutionary. 114 00:07:47,580 --> 00:07:51,380 As Cartier-Bresson said, "Magnum is a community of thought, 115 00:07:51,380 --> 00:07:56,260 "guaranteeing photographers exclusive ownership of their negatives and prints." 116 00:07:56,260 --> 00:07:58,540 Before that time, nobody kept their copyright. 117 00:07:58,540 --> 00:08:00,220 You know, you worked for Life magazine, 118 00:08:00,220 --> 00:08:04,060 you just gave them the film. You were like a plumber, basically. 119 00:08:04,060 --> 00:08:08,500 I think he felt that photographers should be treated better too, 120 00:08:08,500 --> 00:08:12,180 to be given more right to do what they wanted to do. 121 00:08:12,180 --> 00:08:14,820 Instead of being told how to take things, 122 00:08:14,820 --> 00:08:18,300 they should be able to have more of their own personality 123 00:08:18,300 --> 00:08:20,100 in photography. 124 00:08:20,100 --> 00:08:22,220 It was very difficult for the early photographers 125 00:08:22,220 --> 00:08:24,060 cos none of the magazines, 126 00:08:24,060 --> 00:08:29,060 including Life magazine, wanted to play by those rules. 127 00:08:29,060 --> 00:08:33,340 But Magnum desperately needed money, and Capa, a shrewd businessman, 128 00:08:33,340 --> 00:08:37,380 saw his Hollywood connections as a means to replenish the agency's bank account. 129 00:08:37,380 --> 00:08:38,420 FROM FRENCH: 130 00:08:52,380 --> 00:08:57,060 The idea was a very good one, which is to make stories about the movie, 131 00:08:57,060 --> 00:09:00,340 about the people, about the location, 132 00:09:00,340 --> 00:09:02,940 to get publicity in magazines. 133 00:09:04,420 --> 00:09:07,620 You had the photographer on the set whose job was to cover everything 134 00:09:07,620 --> 00:09:09,220 that's going on on the set. 135 00:09:09,220 --> 00:09:13,140 But they would also bring in the special photographer with the idea 136 00:09:13,140 --> 00:09:15,420 of getting spreads in major magazines. 137 00:09:15,420 --> 00:09:19,540 The major magazines always wanted to buy material because they didn't 138 00:09:19,540 --> 00:09:21,260 want the given-out material, 139 00:09:21,260 --> 00:09:23,660 cos they knew that everybody else had it. 140 00:09:23,660 --> 00:09:25,900 The late '40s and then the early '50s, 141 00:09:25,900 --> 00:09:29,140 he sort of cooked up his assignments for himself 142 00:09:29,140 --> 00:09:33,660 to place him in these wonderful locations where his friends were filming. 143 00:09:33,660 --> 00:09:36,220 But he really was a magazine photographer. 144 00:09:36,220 --> 00:09:38,500 That was really what his business was. 145 00:09:38,500 --> 00:09:42,780 Later, he wrote about all the film work he did very dismissively. 146 00:09:42,780 --> 00:09:44,620 He said, "That's done, I'm over with that. 147 00:09:44,620 --> 00:09:47,540 "I want to get back to REAL photography." 148 00:09:47,540 --> 00:09:49,860 And he said, "I want to travel, maybe I'll go to Indochina." 149 00:09:49,860 --> 00:09:51,620 That was a year before he went. 150 00:09:52,620 --> 00:09:55,980 He said himself, towards the end, 151 00:09:55,980 --> 00:09:58,700 "photography's not for grown-up men," 152 00:09:58,700 --> 00:10:03,100 which meant that it wasn't that exciting for him any more. 153 00:10:03,100 --> 00:10:05,900 And, of course, going to Indochina was absolute madness. 154 00:10:12,620 --> 00:10:16,420 Magnum went on because of Chim. 155 00:10:16,420 --> 00:10:18,980 Nobody really thought that Magnum would go on, 156 00:10:18,980 --> 00:10:22,780 cos Capa was really running Magnum in a funny sort of way. 157 00:10:22,780 --> 00:10:27,260 It was just everybody rallying around, saying, we won't let go. 158 00:10:27,260 --> 00:10:30,500 But Chim was absolutely determined. 159 00:10:31,660 --> 00:10:35,260 I remember Chim Seymour because Chim was a very good friend of Capa. 160 00:10:35,260 --> 00:10:37,940 And when Capa died, um... 161 00:10:37,940 --> 00:10:40,380 he was a lot around us. 162 00:10:40,380 --> 00:10:44,020 I don't know if he was a lot around us because Mum and Chim 163 00:10:44,020 --> 00:10:47,660 were consoling each other about Bob's death or, you know, 164 00:10:47,660 --> 00:10:49,060 with friendship and presents. 165 00:10:49,060 --> 00:10:51,180 But I remember this wonderful... 166 00:10:51,180 --> 00:10:53,500 I remember his face always having 167 00:10:53,500 --> 00:10:57,380 a Leica round his neck and photographing constantly. 168 00:10:57,380 --> 00:11:00,300 He was talking and interacting and then taking photos as if they were... 169 00:11:01,660 --> 00:11:04,780 ..two person - one person that was completely normal and talking, 170 00:11:04,780 --> 00:11:09,340 and then the other one noticing things and so capturing it. 171 00:11:09,340 --> 00:11:11,620 And he created a mystique about my family. 172 00:11:11,620 --> 00:11:16,660 I mean, the most beautiful photos of the love between my mother and my father, 173 00:11:17,260 --> 00:11:20,500 Roberto Rossellini, and the three of us kids 174 00:11:20,500 --> 00:11:22,580 are captured in Chim's photo. 175 00:11:23,780 --> 00:11:25,420 Well, after Capa died, 176 00:11:25,420 --> 00:11:30,460 there were two people who kind of looked upon Magnum as Capa's children. 177 00:11:30,460 --> 00:11:34,700 One was Ted Patrick, who was the editor of Holiday magazine, 178 00:11:34,700 --> 00:11:36,740 and the other one was John Huston. 179 00:11:36,740 --> 00:11:40,580 And they always came back to Magnum, and they were very good about hiring 180 00:11:40,580 --> 00:11:42,620 younger photographers. 181 00:11:42,620 --> 00:11:44,220 And they were served very well. 182 00:11:44,220 --> 00:11:47,380 FROM FRENCH: 183 00:12:41,980 --> 00:12:45,340 When you come on a set like that, it's not what you're looking for, 184 00:12:45,340 --> 00:12:48,300 it's what's in front of you and what's possible, 185 00:12:48,300 --> 00:12:51,180 to see what's in front of you and try to make something out of it. 186 00:12:51,180 --> 00:12:54,220 It's not rocket science. 187 00:13:22,140 --> 00:13:27,220 One's job was to find some different aspect that a magazine could use. 188 00:13:29,780 --> 00:13:34,740 People like myself were really good at doing that because we could do 189 00:13:36,220 --> 00:13:37,420 a different approach. 190 00:13:37,420 --> 00:13:41,460 We could attack from the side, basically, rather than the front. 191 00:14:28,940 --> 00:14:31,900 Magnum photographers were observers of the world. 192 00:14:31,900 --> 00:14:36,900 And this documentary approach was poles apart from the studio's own photos. 193 00:14:37,460 --> 00:14:41,460 They brought a breath of fresh air into a world of gloss and touch-ups 194 00:14:41,460 --> 00:14:43,700 that offered a sterile notion of perfection. 195 00:14:45,020 --> 00:14:48,300 In 1954... 196 00:14:50,420 --> 00:14:52,780 ..I was based out of Hollywood. 197 00:14:52,780 --> 00:14:55,860 I went out there, initially, 198 00:14:55,860 --> 00:15:00,540 to work on a film that Stanley Kramer was making called The Caine Mutiny. 199 00:15:00,540 --> 00:15:03,060 And the star of the film was Humphrey Bogart. 200 00:15:04,660 --> 00:15:08,660 For whatever reasons, Mr Bogart sort of adopted me. 201 00:15:08,660 --> 00:15:10,420 He became my mentor. 202 00:15:10,420 --> 00:15:12,460 Billy Wilder introduced him to Humphrey Bogart. 203 00:15:12,460 --> 00:15:16,900 And they hit it off because Bogart was from New York and they were both 204 00:15:16,900 --> 00:15:19,460 sort of tough guys and full of themselves, 205 00:15:19,460 --> 00:15:20,740 and they liked each other. 206 00:15:20,740 --> 00:15:23,980 And, you know, one of the signs of Humphrey Bogart's trust in Dennis 207 00:15:23,980 --> 00:15:27,500 was he let him shoot him without his toupee. 208 00:15:27,500 --> 00:15:29,780 Nobody knew Humphrey Bogart was almost bald. 209 00:15:29,780 --> 00:15:32,540 And Dennis has these great pictures on his sailboat 210 00:15:32,540 --> 00:15:36,340 of a bald, or balding, Humphrey Bogart. 211 00:15:36,340 --> 00:15:41,380 And was kind enough to introduce me to quite a few people that were in 212 00:15:41,540 --> 00:15:43,260 the motion picture industry. 213 00:15:43,260 --> 00:15:45,620 One of them was Nicholas Ray. 214 00:15:45,620 --> 00:15:50,660 And Nick had a ritual where he had a Sunday soiree, so I was invited to 215 00:15:52,340 --> 00:15:53,780 one of these parties. 216 00:15:53,780 --> 00:15:58,620 Nick took me and then he guided me over to a young man and he said, 217 00:15:58,620 --> 00:16:01,380 Dennis, this is James Dean. 218 00:16:01,380 --> 00:16:04,460 I had no idea who he was. 219 00:16:04,460 --> 00:16:09,460 In our discussions, Jimmy said, I just finished a film called East Of Eden, 220 00:16:10,140 --> 00:16:12,980 and would you like to come and see it? 221 00:16:12,980 --> 00:16:14,940 I went to see the film 222 00:16:14,940 --> 00:16:17,260 and, frankly, I was blown away. 223 00:16:17,260 --> 00:16:19,900 And I went up to him and I said, "It was wonderful, 224 00:16:19,900 --> 00:16:21,660 "I really love what you did, 225 00:16:21,660 --> 00:16:24,060 "I want to do a story on you." 226 00:16:25,620 --> 00:16:28,420 Dennis Stock followed James Dean for two months, 227 00:16:28,420 --> 00:16:31,100 from Hollywood to Fairmount, Indiana. 228 00:16:31,100 --> 00:16:36,060 The people who raised him from the age of nine to about 19 were his 229 00:16:36,060 --> 00:16:40,020 aunt and uncle, and they welcomed me with open arms. 230 00:16:40,020 --> 00:16:42,740 They were just extraordinarily friendly. 231 00:16:42,740 --> 00:16:45,900 And till this day, I'm a close friend of the family's. 232 00:16:45,900 --> 00:16:50,980 But in the mix of being there, I could sense that Jimmy wasn't really 233 00:16:51,220 --> 00:16:52,700 ever going to return. 234 00:16:56,420 --> 00:16:58,100 And what it pointed out, though, 235 00:16:58,100 --> 00:17:03,140 is the tragedy of Jimmy incapable of understanding what he had. 236 00:17:07,260 --> 00:17:12,300 He was just a little alienated soul that bounced around in search of... 237 00:17:14,740 --> 00:17:15,780 ..God knows what. 238 00:17:17,580 --> 00:17:19,220 One morning, we got up. 239 00:17:20,500 --> 00:17:23,020 He said, "Come on, I want to show you something." 240 00:17:23,020 --> 00:17:26,500 We walked into this furniture store and to another room. 241 00:17:26,500 --> 00:17:29,140 And in that other room were coffins. 242 00:17:30,140 --> 00:17:31,380 And he jumped into one. 243 00:17:33,060 --> 00:17:38,100 So we went through all these childish expressions that he did within the coffin. 244 00:17:39,780 --> 00:17:44,340 And at the very end, I sort of grabbed him and I said, "Now, sit still. 245 00:17:44,340 --> 00:17:46,620 "Just look at me. Sit up and look at me." 246 00:17:47,740 --> 00:17:49,260 And within that image, 247 00:17:49,260 --> 00:17:52,740 I would like to believe that it shows how lost he was. 248 00:17:56,580 --> 00:17:57,580 He lived... 249 00:17:58,740 --> 00:18:03,740 ..a kind of contradictory life to being on the cusp of being a star. 250 00:18:05,020 --> 00:18:08,140 There was something about New York that wore him down. 251 00:18:09,940 --> 00:18:14,980 I followed him wherever he was willing to show me what was 252 00:18:15,220 --> 00:18:17,740 his relationships to people and locations, 253 00:18:17,740 --> 00:18:21,860 and what came out of that in the final analysis that had the most 254 00:18:21,860 --> 00:18:25,820 appealing possibilities was the photograph of him in the rain 255 00:18:25,820 --> 00:18:26,860 on Times Square. 256 00:18:30,500 --> 00:18:33,300 We probably have a great many young people watching our show tonight. 257 00:18:33,300 --> 00:18:36,620 And for their benefit, I'd like your opinion about fast driving on 258 00:18:36,620 --> 00:18:39,540 the highway. I used to fly around quite a bit, you know. 259 00:18:39,540 --> 00:18:42,620 Took a lot of unnecessary chances on the highway. 260 00:18:43,700 --> 00:18:45,220 And I started racing. 261 00:18:45,220 --> 00:18:50,260 And now I drive on the highways, I'm extra cautious. 262 00:18:51,060 --> 00:18:53,620 Jimmy said he was going to drive the following weekend, 263 00:18:53,620 --> 00:18:55,700 and would I like to come along? 264 00:18:55,700 --> 00:18:57,220 And my first reaction was, 265 00:18:57,220 --> 00:18:59,820 "Wow, yeah, I'd love that, that would be fun." 266 00:18:59,820 --> 00:19:04,220 And I have no idea till this day, but something came into my mind and 267 00:19:04,220 --> 00:19:06,580 I looked at him and I said, "I can't." 268 00:19:06,580 --> 00:19:10,500 Take it easy driving. The life you might save might be mine. 269 00:19:10,500 --> 00:19:13,780 You can say it's good fortune I wasn't with him. 270 00:19:19,460 --> 00:19:21,820 When you have that kind of relationship, 271 00:19:21,820 --> 00:19:23,140 it makes it so much different, 272 00:19:23,140 --> 00:19:27,140 you know, it makes it possible to get that intimacy. 273 00:19:27,140 --> 00:19:32,020 And I think the extreme case of that is undoubtedly Monroe with 274 00:19:32,020 --> 00:19:37,020 Eve Arnold. They were really friends and totally at ease with each other. 275 00:19:37,380 --> 00:19:39,780 What happened was, 276 00:19:39,780 --> 00:19:43,580 Marilyn had seen a set of pictures I'd done for Esquire on 277 00:19:43,580 --> 00:19:46,740 Marlene Dietrich. And you must remember that, in the '50s - 278 00:19:46,740 --> 00:19:49,420 this was, I think, 1952 - 279 00:19:49,420 --> 00:19:54,460 and in those days, practically everything was front lit, 280 00:19:56,500 --> 00:19:59,060 very carefully organised. 281 00:19:59,060 --> 00:20:01,500 I didn't know about any of that. 282 00:20:01,500 --> 00:20:03,980 And I was a documentary photographer. 283 00:20:03,980 --> 00:20:07,180 I simply took her as she was. 284 00:20:07,180 --> 00:20:12,180 There was no posing, no set-up, no lighting, no tripod. 285 00:20:12,580 --> 00:20:15,740 Just me and Marlene singing. 286 00:20:15,740 --> 00:20:17,940 There we were, working on this, 287 00:20:17,940 --> 00:20:21,620 and we were both at a party for John Huston. 288 00:20:21,620 --> 00:20:25,260 And Sam Shaw, the mutual friend, brought her over 289 00:20:25,260 --> 00:20:27,700 and introduced us. And she looked at me and she said, 290 00:20:27,700 --> 00:20:29,940 "If you did that well with Marlene, 291 00:20:29,940 --> 00:20:31,780 "could you imagine what you can do with me?" 292 00:20:31,780 --> 00:20:33,780 Which I thought was quite wonderful, 293 00:20:33,780 --> 00:20:36,340 because she had a naive quality, 294 00:20:36,340 --> 00:20:38,660 but she also had a great sense 295 00:20:38,660 --> 00:20:41,580 of showmanship and self-promotion. 296 00:20:41,580 --> 00:20:43,540 And she could see herself, I was sure, 297 00:20:43,540 --> 00:20:45,460 and what she was going to look like in Esquire. 298 00:20:46,580 --> 00:20:49,020 And then, one day, one night, about... 299 00:20:50,260 --> 00:20:52,220 ..four o'clock in the morning, I guess it was, 300 00:20:52,220 --> 00:20:53,660 I got a call from her. 301 00:20:53,660 --> 00:20:57,980 And would I join her at ten o'clock the next morning and go to Bement with her? 302 00:20:57,980 --> 00:21:03,020 I could have an exclusive story because there'd be only she and her hairdresser. 303 00:21:04,660 --> 00:21:06,700 Eve had that delicate touch, 304 00:21:06,700 --> 00:21:09,540 and that's why, I think, other actresses, 305 00:21:09,540 --> 00:21:12,620 including Joan Crawford, allowed her to photograph her 306 00:21:12,620 --> 00:21:14,340 getting ready to go out. 307 00:21:14,340 --> 00:21:19,380 Because a lot of actresses are asked to be not the person, but the image. 308 00:21:20,460 --> 00:21:25,500 So Joan Crawford allowed Eve to come and photograph the process of 309 00:21:26,540 --> 00:21:29,820 creating this image of Joan Crawford that people wanted. 310 00:21:29,820 --> 00:21:33,700 Because she wanted to reveal to the world it isn't so easy when you say, 311 00:21:33,700 --> 00:21:37,020 "Come to dinner, drop by, show yourself at the benefit." 312 00:21:37,020 --> 00:21:41,020 It takes hours of preparation if you want the persona. 313 00:21:41,020 --> 00:21:46,020 And Eve was once again revealing an aspect of human behaviour, 314 00:21:46,740 --> 00:21:49,100 but with no judgment. 315 00:21:49,100 --> 00:21:52,380 And it was in Chicago when we had that heavy layover, 316 00:21:52,380 --> 00:21:53,740 which took hours... 317 00:21:54,980 --> 00:21:57,100 ..and she went into the ladies' room, 318 00:21:57,100 --> 00:22:00,140 and, you know, as another woman, I just followed after. 319 00:22:00,140 --> 00:22:02,100 I didn't intend to shoot, 320 00:22:02,100 --> 00:22:07,100 but she looked so wonderful with her skirts hiked up and those little fat 321 00:22:07,260 --> 00:22:11,820 chubby legs, which nobody thought of as being that way, hanging out below. 322 00:22:11,820 --> 00:22:14,660 Because I always thought of her as kind of slender. 323 00:22:14,660 --> 00:22:16,740 And what she had, which was wonderful, 324 00:22:16,740 --> 00:22:21,100 was a capacity to think tall, cos she was small. 325 00:22:22,900 --> 00:22:24,900 This picture is so intimate. 326 00:22:24,900 --> 00:22:29,940 And I just love the idea that Eve was so obviously friends with, 327 00:22:31,820 --> 00:22:34,660 and trusted by, and this to me is 328 00:22:34,660 --> 00:22:37,500 the ultimate taking of a picture. 329 00:22:40,340 --> 00:22:43,180 I photographed her over a ten-year stretch. 330 00:22:43,180 --> 00:22:46,140 In the beginning, there was something like 331 00:22:46,140 --> 00:22:48,300 the shortest of the six sessions 332 00:22:48,300 --> 00:22:51,300 was two hours and the longest was two months - 333 00:22:51,300 --> 00:22:53,940 on the film The Misfits that John Huston directed. 334 00:22:55,180 --> 00:22:59,380 Arthur Miller had written a short story about three... 335 00:23:00,420 --> 00:23:05,460 ..men who worked on the desert and brought in the wild horses, which 336 00:23:06,740 --> 00:23:10,220 they then sold to be killed for dog food. 337 00:23:10,220 --> 00:23:14,740 And into this wildlife of theirs came Marilyn. 338 00:23:14,740 --> 00:23:17,100 It had Clark Gable in the lead, 339 00:23:17,100 --> 00:23:19,660 it had Marilyn as the female lead, 340 00:23:19,660 --> 00:23:23,380 it had Montgomery Clift, Eli Wallach, 341 00:23:23,380 --> 00:23:28,420 and it was meant to bring Marilyn forward as a very serious actress. 342 00:23:28,620 --> 00:23:30,540 IN FRENCH: 343 00:23:40,060 --> 00:23:42,380 The filming of The Misfits played a pivotal role 344 00:23:42,380 --> 00:23:45,460 in the history of photography's relationship with cinema. 345 00:23:46,620 --> 00:23:49,860 For three months, during the summer of 1960, 346 00:23:49,860 --> 00:23:52,100 nine major Magnum photographers 347 00:23:52,100 --> 00:23:54,740 took turns to chronicle this chaotic shoot 348 00:23:54,740 --> 00:23:56,580 in Reno, in the Nevada desert. 349 00:23:58,580 --> 00:24:02,620 The exceptional on-set access wasn't just down to John Huston's 350 00:24:02,620 --> 00:24:05,300 close ties with the agency. 351 00:24:05,300 --> 00:24:08,460 The idea had originated with Lee Jones, 352 00:24:08,460 --> 00:24:11,700 the then head of special projects in the New York office, 353 00:24:11,700 --> 00:24:15,620 who felt this dream cast movie deserved exceptional coverage. 354 00:24:37,140 --> 00:24:40,420 The first photographers to arrive in Reno were Inge Morath and 355 00:24:40,420 --> 00:24:41,900 Henri Cartier-Bresson. 356 00:25:18,180 --> 00:25:20,140 So all of this was exotic. 357 00:25:20,140 --> 00:25:24,540 And naturally, this being such an American movie, it was also exotic to us. 358 00:25:24,540 --> 00:25:28,940 So, in a way, we approached it from our very European point of view. 359 00:26:01,540 --> 00:26:06,540 The Misfits was the result of Marilyn Monroe's 360 00:26:06,940 --> 00:26:08,980 kind of tardiness... 361 00:26:10,060 --> 00:26:15,060 ..nervousness and just general, what shall we say, just general distress. 362 00:26:27,300 --> 00:26:32,300 I was drawn to Marilyn Monroe not as a sex object, but as a struggling 363 00:26:32,980 --> 00:26:36,300 artist who was really depressed. 364 00:26:36,300 --> 00:26:38,100 And there's one picture with Huston. 365 00:26:38,100 --> 00:26:40,580 I didn't like the idea that I'd got away with it. 366 00:26:40,580 --> 00:26:42,780 You know, she was really in torment. 367 00:26:43,940 --> 00:26:45,940 I think Monty Clift must have been another one, 368 00:26:45,940 --> 00:26:48,540 and I think a lot of them came out of the Actors Studio in New York, 369 00:26:48,540 --> 00:26:52,140 the ones who Dennis felt were more human and somehow managed to retain 370 00:26:52,140 --> 00:26:53,780 who they were, even in Hollywood, 371 00:26:53,780 --> 00:26:57,900 where everybody was sort of putting on a facade. 372 00:26:57,900 --> 00:26:59,300 And Monty Clift didn't. 373 00:27:29,340 --> 00:27:32,460 Sometimes, you know, the work is so... 374 00:27:32,460 --> 00:27:36,140 you know, you try to read through, 375 00:27:36,140 --> 00:27:41,180 and you feel sometimes it's on the verge of a kind of craziness. 376 00:27:42,180 --> 00:27:44,940 But it isn't really craziness. 377 00:27:44,940 --> 00:27:49,980 It's really getting the truest part of yourself out, 378 00:27:52,060 --> 00:27:54,340 and it's very hard, you know. 379 00:27:54,340 --> 00:27:55,860 I mean, it's not easy, let's say. 380 00:28:21,260 --> 00:28:22,820 Yes, I think we all used her. 381 00:28:22,820 --> 00:28:25,860 I don't think there's any question about that. 382 00:28:25,860 --> 00:28:30,780 As a photographer, one has to accept the fact that one does invade 383 00:28:30,780 --> 00:28:32,660 other people's privacy. 384 00:28:32,660 --> 00:28:37,140 However, you could argue that, without the still camera, 385 00:28:37,140 --> 00:28:38,900 Marilyn would not have been Marilyn. 386 00:28:38,900 --> 00:28:42,220 We would not have seen her cos that's the way most people saw her. 387 00:28:42,220 --> 00:28:43,980 So it's a circular thing. 388 00:28:43,980 --> 00:28:46,660 We all used each other. 389 00:28:46,660 --> 00:28:47,660 She used me... 390 00:28:48,860 --> 00:28:50,900 ..to help her to get where she was going - 391 00:28:50,900 --> 00:28:53,100 me and hundreds of others. 392 00:28:53,100 --> 00:28:54,940 You know, I was not unique in that. 393 00:28:54,940 --> 00:28:58,380 Unique only in the fact that she trusted me. 394 00:28:58,380 --> 00:29:02,780 These photographers who worked on it were not your paparazzi types - 395 00:29:02,780 --> 00:29:04,540 they were Magnum people. 396 00:29:04,540 --> 00:29:09,380 There were no people that would have done damage or scandal or anything 397 00:29:09,380 --> 00:29:11,780 like that. Among us, I don't think so. 398 00:29:13,140 --> 00:29:17,140 Filming wrapped on The Misfits on November 4, 1960. 399 00:29:17,140 --> 00:29:20,140 The following day, Clark Gable suffered a heart attack. 400 00:29:20,140 --> 00:29:21,540 He died days later. 401 00:29:24,620 --> 00:29:27,300 Rarely had the divide between fiction and the real world 402 00:29:27,300 --> 00:29:28,580 been so narrow. 403 00:29:43,700 --> 00:29:45,300 With the challenge of TV, 404 00:29:45,300 --> 00:29:49,020 cinema had begun to lose its allure for the big magazines. 405 00:29:49,020 --> 00:29:52,060 It was the end of an era for Magnum and cinema. 406 00:29:54,820 --> 00:29:57,700 A little bit further, a little bit further. That's it. 407 00:29:57,700 --> 00:29:59,860 Now get your hand up near your face. 408 00:29:59,860 --> 00:30:03,180 Near your face. I'm shooting in very, very close on your head now. 409 00:30:03,180 --> 00:30:05,620 Keep your hand near... That's it. 410 00:30:05,620 --> 00:30:07,740 But a new era was beginning in Europe. 411 00:30:07,740 --> 00:30:11,020 In London, David Hurn took up the torch. 412 00:30:11,020 --> 00:30:14,740 What is called the '60s really started in the late '50s. 413 00:30:14,740 --> 00:30:19,780 So that sort of cultural movement, I was very much a part of. 414 00:30:20,380 --> 00:30:24,300 You know, by that time, I'd known all the people, all the players. 415 00:30:24,300 --> 00:30:26,620 Tom Carlisle, an important publicist, 416 00:30:26,620 --> 00:30:29,620 gave him privileged access into the film world. 417 00:30:29,620 --> 00:30:33,300 Whenever Tom had a film that he thought was interesting, 418 00:30:33,300 --> 00:30:36,700 he would always phone me up, and I would go and do it, and so 419 00:30:36,700 --> 00:30:41,380 that's how I did the Bond films, and Tom was the publicist on Barbarella, 420 00:30:41,380 --> 00:30:44,380 so that's how I did all the Barbarella stuff. 421 00:30:44,380 --> 00:30:47,940 And so, the only film which was well-known that I did that was 422 00:30:47,940 --> 00:30:51,140 not that was The Beatles. 423 00:30:52,220 --> 00:30:55,140 # It's been a hard day's night... # 424 00:30:55,140 --> 00:30:58,620 And I enjoyed doing them because I didn't have to do the job of 425 00:30:58,620 --> 00:31:01,380 photographing what was happening in front of the camera. 426 00:31:01,380 --> 00:31:06,380 I was much more interested on the reaction of the fans to them, etc. 427 00:31:07,340 --> 00:31:12,420 In fact, it was so intense for them that, if I drove a car with any of 428 00:31:14,220 --> 00:31:17,220 them in it, you could not stop the car. 429 00:31:17,220 --> 00:31:21,420 If it was a red light, you went through because, if you stopped, 430 00:31:21,420 --> 00:31:22,580 you would never move again. 431 00:31:24,220 --> 00:31:27,780 I think one of the other things is that I always had a good, 432 00:31:27,780 --> 00:31:30,500 what I would call slightly journalistic look. 433 00:31:30,500 --> 00:31:35,220 So I was aware you would get people of this age, 434 00:31:35,220 --> 00:31:38,220 so that most of the pictures you see are of the young kids, 435 00:31:38,220 --> 00:31:42,020 but I found it fascinating that grannies were there as well. 436 00:31:42,020 --> 00:31:45,540 And so, maybe almost artificially, 437 00:31:45,540 --> 00:31:48,780 I might have more pictures of grannies 438 00:31:48,780 --> 00:31:51,180 than were actually there in the overall, 439 00:31:51,180 --> 00:31:55,140 because I would think that they were important to do. 440 00:31:55,140 --> 00:31:57,420 While Beatlemania stormed the world, 441 00:31:57,420 --> 00:31:59,620 art-house cinema stirred a revolution. 442 00:32:40,620 --> 00:32:45,660 Magnum newcomers, keen to make their mark, documented these cinema auteurs. 443 00:33:11,420 --> 00:33:14,820 The times sparked some surprising collaborations. 444 00:33:14,820 --> 00:33:17,500 Nicolas Tikhomiroff befriended Orson Welles. 445 00:33:19,900 --> 00:33:23,580 Constantine Manos followed Elia Kazan during the shooting of 446 00:33:23,580 --> 00:33:26,300 America America, his most personal film. 447 00:33:27,260 --> 00:33:28,660 And Bruce Davidson, 448 00:33:28,660 --> 00:33:32,780 who had just spent two years documenting extreme poverty in Harlem, 449 00:33:32,780 --> 00:33:36,620 was hired by Antonioni to photograph his first American film... 450 00:33:37,620 --> 00:33:39,180 ..Zabriskie Point. 451 00:33:39,180 --> 00:33:40,860 He did something very interesting. 452 00:33:40,860 --> 00:33:43,020 He said to me, 453 00:33:43,020 --> 00:33:45,380 "I'd like you to make a picture that you like." 454 00:33:46,620 --> 00:33:51,140 So I learned there was this pre-historic dried lake, and I took 455 00:33:51,140 --> 00:33:55,300 Daria and Mark and did a nude thing. 456 00:33:55,300 --> 00:33:58,020 I was completely free to do that, you know. 457 00:33:58,020 --> 00:34:00,620 And it was a little bit Antonioni-ish too, 458 00:34:00,620 --> 00:34:03,580 and maybe that's when he trusted me, 459 00:34:03,580 --> 00:34:06,540 because he knew that I was an artist in 460 00:34:06,540 --> 00:34:10,860 a quest of life, and he understood that, being an artist himself. 461 00:34:16,460 --> 00:34:20,020 The '70s signalled a shift in Magnum's relationship with cinema. 462 00:34:43,900 --> 00:34:46,940 The public still had a healthy interest in the stars, 463 00:34:46,940 --> 00:34:50,580 but the magazines now got their pictures from the paparazzi. 464 00:34:50,580 --> 00:34:52,900 And their approach was radically different. 465 00:35:11,660 --> 00:35:14,380 Although photographers disappeared from film sets, 466 00:35:14,380 --> 00:35:16,380 cinema inspires them to this day. 467 00:35:20,180 --> 00:35:22,180 Like Gueorgui Pinkhassov, 468 00:35:22,180 --> 00:35:24,900 who discovered art and spirituality through the eyes of 469 00:35:24,900 --> 00:35:27,580 a great Russian film-maker, Andrei Tarkovsky. 470 00:40:48,940 --> 00:40:53,980 I remember, once I came to Magnum, and they asked me if I would like to 471 00:40:55,060 --> 00:40:59,660 participate on the shooting of the film, and I said no. 472 00:41:01,780 --> 00:41:04,340 They came back to me and they said, "Listen," you know. 473 00:41:05,780 --> 00:41:08,380 "They don't want you to photograph the film." 474 00:41:11,180 --> 00:41:14,620 But that they want me to look on the countries 475 00:41:14,620 --> 00:41:16,700 which we were travelling through. 476 00:41:25,740 --> 00:41:30,740 This is going to be filmed with few people - about six people. 477 00:41:31,020 --> 00:41:36,060 You are going to travel around the Balkans in the small bus and 478 00:41:37,340 --> 00:41:38,900 in the winter period. 479 00:41:43,620 --> 00:41:46,060 Now, it's 45 years that I travel. 480 00:41:48,020 --> 00:41:52,980 I never stop in one place for more than three months. 481 00:41:53,100 --> 00:41:56,100 I know, if I stay in one place, that I become blind. 482 00:42:07,860 --> 00:42:10,220 I could get on the places. 483 00:42:12,100 --> 00:42:15,740 I could wake up in the morning and say goodbye. 484 00:42:15,740 --> 00:42:18,100 I come back to a hotel in the evening... 485 00:42:20,460 --> 00:42:21,780 ..and I just walk around. 486 00:42:37,620 --> 00:42:42,620 Angelopoulos and me, we look on the same reality. 487 00:42:42,900 --> 00:42:45,940 We were looking for something different. 488 00:42:47,140 --> 00:42:52,180 And it was interesting to show how different people and different media 489 00:42:53,420 --> 00:42:55,460 can show the same reality. 490 00:42:56,660 --> 00:42:59,020 In fact, he told me, after a few days, also... 491 00:43:20,340 --> 00:43:22,780 People still remember the pictures. 492 00:43:22,780 --> 00:43:24,100 They stay in their mind. 493 00:43:25,300 --> 00:43:28,300 The pictures look like Koudelka's pictures. 494 00:43:28,300 --> 00:43:30,580 And some of them are just on the set, 495 00:43:30,580 --> 00:43:33,980 and that's one of the miracles of photography. 496 00:43:33,980 --> 00:43:35,420 How does that happen? 497 00:43:35,420 --> 00:43:37,780 We've all got just a box with a hole in the front. 498 00:43:37,780 --> 00:43:40,100 Now, in theory, 499 00:43:40,100 --> 00:43:41,940 you shouldn't have any control over that. 500 00:43:41,940 --> 00:43:46,940 The reality is that, if you look at ten Cartier-Bresson pictures, 501 00:43:48,780 --> 00:43:52,540 If you look at ten Koudelka pictures, you can tell they're by Koudelka. 502 00:43:52,540 --> 00:43:55,500 There's something absolutely extraordinary about that. 503 00:45:06,860 --> 00:45:09,540 You know, it's very good that the thing's documented. 504 00:45:09,540 --> 00:45:12,020 Whether or not you need to do it for every Hollywood movie, 505 00:45:12,020 --> 00:45:14,340 I don't think so but, occasionally, 506 00:45:14,340 --> 00:45:16,780 some of them come along that are just, 507 00:45:16,780 --> 00:45:19,580 you know, really crying out to be recorded - 508 00:45:19,580 --> 00:45:23,060 something else beyond just the narrative of the movie. 509 00:45:25,020 --> 00:45:29,220 It's wonderful to see these after... God, how long, 20 years? 510 00:45:29,220 --> 00:45:32,300 That actually, it doesn't look like a movie and that, to me, 511 00:45:32,300 --> 00:45:35,340 is fantastic. They look like photographs. 512 00:45:35,340 --> 00:45:37,660 So, you know, I'm delighted by that. 513 00:45:39,140 --> 00:45:41,140 This was in Belgrade, 514 00:45:41,140 --> 00:45:44,900 the scene where we had the train and the horses, and this was just 515 00:45:44,900 --> 00:45:48,580 a waiting room in a station, but it just looks so beautiful, you know, 516 00:45:48,580 --> 00:45:51,460 people smoking. They weren't even part of the movie, 517 00:45:51,460 --> 00:45:54,100 it was just something that was there. 518 00:45:54,100 --> 00:45:56,980 So, you know, there is a fantastic heritage. 519 00:45:56,980 --> 00:46:00,300 And I think, you know, we wanted to drive that forward and continue 520 00:46:00,300 --> 00:46:02,340 it in some way. But I don't know. 521 00:46:02,340 --> 00:46:05,740 Now the studios are so controlled by PR. 522 00:46:05,740 --> 00:46:09,060 I don't think you could do it in quite the same way as you could. 523 00:46:11,900 --> 00:46:16,300 Normally, when you're photographing celebrities, great actors, 524 00:46:16,300 --> 00:46:18,540 the expectation is you're going to go into the studio. 525 00:46:18,540 --> 00:46:21,180 Basically, the way it's worked for a number of years now, 526 00:46:21,180 --> 00:46:24,140 you book a studio, you book a hair and make-up team, 527 00:46:24,140 --> 00:46:26,420 and the actors have come to expect that. 528 00:46:26,420 --> 00:46:29,020 But we wanted to try to somehow shake that up, 529 00:46:29,020 --> 00:46:31,220 and that was the thinking behind the year 530 00:46:31,220 --> 00:46:35,780 that we had Paolo Pellegrin do the actors for our annual Great Performers portfolio. 531 00:46:35,780 --> 00:46:39,700 And so she set the bar very high because she said, "Paolo, I want you 532 00:46:39,700 --> 00:46:42,780 "to rethink this genre." 533 00:46:42,780 --> 00:46:44,420 Um... 534 00:46:44,420 --> 00:46:46,660 I said, "OK, thank you." 535 00:46:46,660 --> 00:46:50,140 It's easier said than done because, when you're in that world, 536 00:46:50,140 --> 00:46:53,260 you can only do so much if you have the access. 537 00:46:53,260 --> 00:46:58,340 You can't do a documentary reportage on Cate Blanchett or Kate Winslet or 538 00:46:58,540 --> 00:47:02,660 Robert Downey Jr or whoever the actor might be unless they're brave enough 539 00:47:02,660 --> 00:47:06,500 to say, "Yes, come along, you can watch me, fly on the wall." 540 00:47:06,500 --> 00:47:10,820 And with that particular project, we managed to get that access. 541 00:47:10,820 --> 00:47:14,420 It's pretty impressive, given that, at that point, Paolo was really known 542 00:47:14,420 --> 00:47:16,660 for his war photography. 543 00:47:16,660 --> 00:47:20,340 So there's nothing in his body of work that most actors would have looked at 544 00:47:20,340 --> 00:47:22,980 and thought, "Oh, sure, I'd love to be photographed by him." 545 00:47:22,980 --> 00:47:27,100 She obviously asked me because of what I do, 546 00:47:27,100 --> 00:47:30,100 so I shouldn't do anything different. 547 00:47:30,100 --> 00:47:33,980 And I should bring and apply my core values, 548 00:47:33,980 --> 00:47:37,140 and those are an interest in the other, 549 00:47:37,140 --> 00:47:41,180 which certainly transcends a celebrity aspect... 550 00:47:42,420 --> 00:47:44,500 ..or the public persona aspect. 551 00:47:44,500 --> 00:47:47,340 I went and I showed them my work and I said, 552 00:47:47,340 --> 00:47:49,260 "I come from a different experience. 553 00:47:49,260 --> 00:47:52,060 "This is what I do." And we started talking. 554 00:47:52,060 --> 00:47:55,260 He said, "Let's go for a drive." He has a beautiful car. 555 00:47:55,260 --> 00:47:57,940 So we started driving around, and I was talking... 556 00:47:57,940 --> 00:48:00,180 He was talking about the narcos in Mexico. 557 00:48:00,180 --> 00:48:03,180 I was talking about Gaza and the Palestinians. 558 00:48:04,260 --> 00:48:08,580 And, you know, what was supposed to be 60 minutes, I don't remember, 559 00:48:08,580 --> 00:48:11,740 ended up being like an entire day that we spent together. 560 00:48:13,020 --> 00:48:15,140 You know, when he got access, let's say, 561 00:48:15,140 --> 00:48:17,860 to Sean Penn's home and Brad Pitt, 562 00:48:17,860 --> 00:48:20,620 he had access, but not full access. 563 00:48:20,620 --> 00:48:23,020 There were certain things that were off-limits. 564 00:48:23,020 --> 00:48:26,900 On the other hand, I'm still amazed, the access he got to Kate Winslet 565 00:48:26,900 --> 00:48:29,580 and the cover picture of her in hair curlers. 566 00:48:29,580 --> 00:48:32,420 I love that, that she had the confidence to be so open. 567 00:48:32,420 --> 00:48:33,940 Of course, she looked spectacular. 568 00:48:33,940 --> 00:48:36,540 It was very special, to photograph her, 569 00:48:36,540 --> 00:48:40,300 because she really brought something...unique. 570 00:48:40,300 --> 00:48:42,380 She had... 571 00:48:42,380 --> 00:48:46,900 a light which was really special and very hers. 572 00:48:46,900 --> 00:48:49,500 One thing I did tell them, 573 00:48:49,500 --> 00:48:52,740 I'm not going to direct you, I don't want to ask, 574 00:48:52,740 --> 00:48:55,500 but I would like, as much as possible, 575 00:48:55,500 --> 00:48:58,740 for you to enter your own inner world, 576 00:48:58,740 --> 00:49:01,340 and she was so amazing at that... 577 00:49:02,540 --> 00:49:04,780 ..that it became like this physical battle. 578 00:49:04,780 --> 00:49:09,820 So, over the course of the session, she was so good and she was so... 579 00:49:10,860 --> 00:49:15,820 You know, it nearly had a spiritual element, 580 00:49:15,820 --> 00:49:17,900 the time I spent with her in that hotel. 581 00:49:17,900 --> 00:49:20,100 And maybe it was the hotel, the red room, 582 00:49:20,100 --> 00:49:23,580 this New York light coming through the windows, 583 00:49:23,580 --> 00:49:27,700 this warm sort of yellow light and her... 584 00:49:28,740 --> 00:49:33,300 ..capacity to keep, you know, this moment for ever. 585 00:49:33,300 --> 00:49:34,820 It was really, really special. 586 00:49:43,580 --> 00:49:47,420 What Paolo did is truly, you know, 587 00:49:47,420 --> 00:49:51,420 a majestic work by a photographer at the height of his powers, you know, 588 00:49:51,420 --> 00:49:52,500 in a way. 589 00:49:52,500 --> 00:49:53,580 What I was doing was... 590 00:49:55,140 --> 00:49:57,540 ..you know, something OK in the midst of 591 00:49:57,540 --> 00:49:59,180 figuring a lot of things out. 592 00:49:59,180 --> 00:50:01,620 Every photographer has kind of a different signature. 593 00:50:01,620 --> 00:50:05,260 Peter van Agtmael I see as being more direct... 594 00:50:06,300 --> 00:50:08,060 ..and wanting it to look more like 595 00:50:08,060 --> 00:50:10,540 an inner world. There's like a subtlety to his work. 596 00:50:10,540 --> 00:50:14,980 And often, his human figures, they're always smaller in the frame. 597 00:50:14,980 --> 00:50:17,460 And he managed to even carry that over 598 00:50:17,460 --> 00:50:20,100 into his coverage of Jeff Bridges, 599 00:50:20,100 --> 00:50:23,980 which is interesting, cos Bridges is extremely handsome, 600 00:50:23,980 --> 00:50:25,060 larger than life, 601 00:50:25,060 --> 00:50:27,340 famous actor, and yet he still managed to make pictures 602 00:50:27,340 --> 00:50:29,500 where it looks like an ordinary guy at the airport, 603 00:50:29,500 --> 00:50:31,700 like, as if you wouldn't even recognise him. 604 00:50:31,700 --> 00:50:36,740 Really? That's him? I like that he's just looking for ordinariness and, 605 00:50:40,300 --> 00:50:42,380 but it's just real life. 606 00:50:42,380 --> 00:50:46,540 I don't hold Hollywood in any particular esteem, 607 00:50:46,540 --> 00:50:50,460 and so the pictures are not going to necessarily mimic the language of 608 00:50:50,460 --> 00:50:53,820 what has been created around these people, which is this kind of... 609 00:50:53,820 --> 00:50:56,140 essentially a cult of personality, you know. 610 00:50:58,020 --> 00:51:00,820 I don't really get it, honestly. 611 00:51:00,820 --> 00:51:04,180 A great celebrity portrait is one that feels truer 612 00:51:04,180 --> 00:51:05,460 than the usual affair. 613 00:51:05,460 --> 00:51:07,700 In other words, that it's somehow a portrait, 614 00:51:07,700 --> 00:51:09,540 that there seems to be some element 615 00:51:09,540 --> 00:51:13,660 of authenticity to it, where you get a sense of who that person is. 616 00:51:13,660 --> 00:51:17,300 Maybe they're caught in an ever-so-slightly off-guard moment. 617 00:51:17,300 --> 00:51:20,300 I feel like, for all portraiture, that's what you're always looking for. 618 00:51:20,300 --> 00:51:22,340 It's what I'm always looking for - 619 00:51:22,340 --> 00:51:24,900 there is something just unposed enough, 620 00:51:24,900 --> 00:51:28,500 unselfconscious enough about the picture-making that was happening 621 00:51:28,500 --> 00:51:30,140 that there's some revelation of truth. 622 00:51:30,140 --> 00:51:33,340 It's very hard to do that with actors because, all day long, 623 00:51:33,340 --> 00:51:36,260 they're photographed, they're filmed, they're putting on a face. 624 00:51:36,260 --> 00:51:40,500 But still, a certain kind of photographer might just get a little bit closer, 625 00:51:40,500 --> 00:51:42,220 something a little bit truer. 626 00:51:43,700 --> 00:51:46,780 Recalling Magnum's first ventures into Hollywood, 627 00:51:46,780 --> 00:51:50,180 this new generation of photographers renewed the intimacy, 628 00:51:50,180 --> 00:51:54,100 that extra touch of humanity that made Magnum's cinema photographs such 629 00:51:54,100 --> 00:51:58,020 an essential part of the history of both cinema and photography. 630 00:52:19,380 --> 00:52:22,140 We were all in the studio, all about to shoot the picture, 631 00:52:22,140 --> 00:52:25,020 and Tom comes up to me and he said, "I've forgotten the gun, 632 00:52:25,020 --> 00:52:27,660 "we don't have a gun." So there we are, 633 00:52:27,660 --> 00:52:30,780 in my studio without a gun, and all 634 00:52:30,780 --> 00:52:34,740 these people flown in from America to be there! 635 00:52:34,740 --> 00:52:37,420 So I said, "God, we're in luck." 636 00:52:37,420 --> 00:52:41,260 My hobby at the time was target shooting, and the gun that I had, 637 00:52:41,260 --> 00:52:42,700 it was an air pistol. 638 00:52:42,700 --> 00:52:44,740 I said, "Nobody here will know. 639 00:52:44,740 --> 00:52:47,100 "All you've got to do is, 640 00:52:47,100 --> 00:52:49,220 "when they come to do the artwork for the poster, 641 00:52:49,220 --> 00:52:51,780 "cut the barrel off there, 642 00:52:51,780 --> 00:52:53,380 "and nobody would know the difference." 643 00:52:53,380 --> 00:52:57,740 There he is, posing about, Mr Bond with his air pistol, you see! 644 00:52:57,740 --> 00:53:02,220 Well, of course, they forgot to tell the people in the design thing to do 645 00:53:02,220 --> 00:53:05,460 that, and so the posters that came out, 646 00:53:05,460 --> 00:53:08,860 they're all with Sean Connery with an air pistol. 647 00:53:08,860 --> 00:53:10,340 I mean, isn't that... 648 00:53:10,340 --> 00:53:13,180 I mean, the world is bonkers! 649 00:53:13,180 --> 00:53:16,220 The film...world is bonkers! 56130

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