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1
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moody ambient music
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All right,
let's start in child's pose.
3
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Reach your arms forward
but let them be soft.
4
00:00:19,394 --> 00:00:22,605
Try to do nothing.
5
00:00:24,274 --> 00:00:27,861
Good, exhale.
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Take a deep breath in...
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full breath out.
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Tuck your back toes, and
inhale, reach the arms up.
9
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And then, when
you're ready, left leg, inhale.
10
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High, high, high,
up in the armpits.
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Virginia!
12
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Hi, dear.
13
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Hello.
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So, let's talk.
15
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I was thinking that Molly has
kind of a therapeutic take on
16
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what a marriage is,
that we heal each other,
17
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and what she wants
is more intimacy,
18
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more connection with him.
19
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Yes.
What she wants is a "feel me"
20
00:01:57,283 --> 00:01:59,327
thing --
"know me and feel me" thing.
21
00:01:59,369 --> 00:02:00,620
Mm-hm.
22
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That he should
figure out how to heal,
23
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so he can come
back on the job--
24
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-Of healing me.
-Of healing me daily.
25
00:02:07,168 --> 00:02:08,586
Yeah.
26
00:02:08,628 --> 00:02:10,463
Because he doesn't know
what it would be like for him to
27
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be the subject of the story and
for that to go on for more than
28
00:02:14,342 --> 00:02:16,052
four sentences or less.
29
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He perks up when he gets a
chance to speak his mind and
30
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take the space.
31
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Yeah.
32
00:02:21,432 --> 00:02:22,809
But then
when she takes over,
33
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you can see this other
kind of relief wash over him.
34
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Exactly, exactly.
35
00:02:26,855 --> 00:02:29,065
And I would want to know:
36
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"Would you like to get your
shot at stardom for a while?"
37
00:02:34,028 --> 00:02:35,530
Mm-hm.
38
00:02:35,572 --> 00:02:36,948
"'Cause I'm going to be
asking you more about yourself,
39
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and I know you're
going to turn me away,
40
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and you're gonna
wanna turn toward her..."
41
00:02:40,869 --> 00:02:42,120
Yeah, yeah.
42
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"And I'm not
gonna let it happen."
43
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Yeah.
44
00:02:44,914 --> 00:02:47,750
Interesting.
45
00:02:50,378 --> 00:02:51,880
Happy Tuesday.
46
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Happy Tuesday.
47
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It is Tuesday, right?
48
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Yeah,
it just feels like
49
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I don't even
know what day it is.
50
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Mm-hm.
51
00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:00,972
Although it feels
like summer still.
52
00:03:01,014 --> 00:03:03,016
It still feels like...
53
00:03:03,057 --> 00:03:04,392
all the days.
54
00:03:04,434 --> 00:03:06,853
Yeah.
55
00:03:06,895 --> 00:03:10,148
Do you want
to say anything?
56
00:03:14,402 --> 00:03:16,362
Is there a warm-up?
57
00:03:17,906 --> 00:03:19,365
Can we
ease into things?
58
00:03:19,407 --> 00:03:21,367
Or is it just--
59
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No small talk, you
don't do small talk.
60
00:03:23,328 --> 00:03:26,372
You'd prefer to small talk,
you wanna jump right in...
61
00:03:26,414 --> 00:03:28,041
I hate small talk.
62
00:03:28,082 --> 00:03:29,709
Like, it's my
least favorite thing.
63
00:03:29,751 --> 00:03:31,294
Mm-hm.
64
00:03:31,336 --> 00:03:36,132
I think it's because small talk
is a way to cover discomfort.
65
00:03:36,382 --> 00:03:38,885
I would rather just start.
66
00:03:38,927 --> 00:03:40,220
Mm-hm.
67
00:03:40,261 --> 00:03:42,263
It's ma--
It's making me think about,
68
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like, if we're
sitting on the couch, right?
69
00:03:44,599 --> 00:03:46,517
And--
70
00:03:46,559 --> 00:03:49,812
Josh will go like...
71
00:03:50,772 --> 00:03:51,898
-Mm-hm.
-Right?
72
00:03:51,940 --> 00:03:54,275
And I'm just like,
"Just-- just, like,
73
00:03:54,317 --> 00:03:56,402
kiss me or some--"
It's like--
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00:03:56,444 --> 00:03:58,112
-Small talk.
-A hundred percent.
75
00:03:58,154 --> 00:04:01,032
-Mm-hm.
-A hundred percent.
76
00:04:01,074 --> 00:04:02,075
Come on, I'm not--
77
00:04:02,116 --> 00:04:03,201
I'm not that--
I'm not that obvious.
78
00:04:03,243 --> 00:04:04,535
No, I know, and
I'm just saying--
79
00:04:04,577 --> 00:04:05,954
-The small talk!
80
00:04:05,995 --> 00:04:07,288
It's like the
first time we kissed.
81
00:04:07,330 --> 00:04:08,706
Sure.
82
00:04:08,748 --> 00:04:09,624
Where I was like, "Just do
what you're gonna-- like,
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just do it!"
84
00:04:11,251 --> 00:04:14,420
So you're coming at the
situation rather than...
85
00:04:14,462 --> 00:04:16,172
-Yes.
-Mm-hm.
86
00:04:16,214 --> 00:04:21,261
Josh, what is it like for you to
be on the receiving end of that?
87
00:04:21,469 --> 00:04:24,180
It feels--
I feel like--
88
00:04:24,222 --> 00:04:27,934
I feel pressure to...
89
00:04:27,976 --> 00:04:31,271
present the answer
that she is looking for.
90
00:04:31,312 --> 00:04:32,772
Mm-hm.
91
00:04:32,814 --> 00:04:36,025
I mean, I guess I think
it's disconcerting to Molly.
92
00:04:36,067 --> 00:04:37,944
Uh...
93
00:04:37,986 --> 00:04:39,362
I don't know, do
you know what I mean?
94
00:04:39,404 --> 00:04:42,198
Mm-hm.
But you're going back to Molly.
95
00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:46,786
I'm asking you
about your experience.
96
00:04:47,495 --> 00:04:49,080
Um, can you be more specific?
97
00:04:49,122 --> 00:04:50,748
Did you
know notice that?
98
00:04:50,790 --> 00:04:52,792
That you went and you-- I asked
you a question about being on
99
00:04:52,834 --> 00:04:54,085
the receiving end...
100
00:04:54,127 --> 00:04:55,420
Yeah, I
guess which is why I--
101
00:04:55,461 --> 00:04:57,797
And you went to back
to discomfort in Molly.
102
00:04:57,839 --> 00:04:59,257
I mean, it's good
for you to notice--
103
00:04:59,299 --> 00:05:00,842
Oh, that she felt that way,
rather than how I might have
104
00:05:00,883 --> 00:05:02,093
felt about it.
105
00:05:02,135 --> 00:05:03,469
Yeah.
106
00:05:03,511 --> 00:05:05,763
Yeah, really important
for you to notice that...
107
00:05:05,805 --> 00:05:07,765
move.
108
00:05:07,807 --> 00:05:09,976
Yeah.
109
00:05:11,477 --> 00:05:13,813
Can I, um, ask you,
110
00:05:13,855 --> 00:05:16,107
can you talk a little
bit about your history?
111
00:05:16,149 --> 00:05:17,525
Sure.
112
00:05:17,567 --> 00:05:18,943
Uh, I grew up in Connecticut.
113
00:05:18,985 --> 00:05:20,278
Mm-hm.
114
00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:21,904
Uh, 'til I was about 10.
115
00:05:21,946 --> 00:05:24,240
You know, we went to church, we
had the red door and the white
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house, and, like, all--
you know what I mean?
117
00:05:26,034 --> 00:05:28,161
We were like the picket fe--
like-- we didn't actually have a
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00:05:28,202 --> 00:05:29,329
picket fence, but,
like, it was, like,
119
00:05:29,370 --> 00:05:31,664
that kind of, like, out of a...
120
00:05:31,706 --> 00:05:33,750
And, um...
121
00:05:33,791 --> 00:05:38,755
my mom met somebody
that she worked with,
122
00:05:38,796 --> 00:05:40,006
and they fell in love.
123
00:05:40,048 --> 00:05:41,674
Wait, at what point?
124
00:05:41,716 --> 00:05:43,509
I was eight.
125
00:05:43,551 --> 00:05:45,928
And the affair lasted for
about a year and a half,
126
00:05:45,970 --> 00:05:47,472
I think.
127
00:05:47,513 --> 00:05:50,516
My dad found out about it at
some point and confronted her.
128
00:05:50,558 --> 00:05:53,269
Over the course
of the next year...
129
00:05:53,311 --> 00:05:56,189
my mom was
gone a lot at night,
130
00:05:56,230 --> 00:05:57,523
she would
come home late.
131
00:05:57,565 --> 00:05:59,192
It seemed-- I
don't know if she did,
132
00:05:59,233 --> 00:06:01,903
but in my memory,
she was always gone.
133
00:06:01,944 --> 00:06:05,198
We had this bay window in
the front of the house,
134
00:06:05,239 --> 00:06:08,242
and this big curtain that
closed and then the carpet,
135
00:06:08,284 --> 00:06:11,913
and I could climb out
onto the bay window...
136
00:06:11,954 --> 00:06:13,831
and sit behind that curtain.
137
00:06:13,873 --> 00:06:15,208
Mm-hm.
138
00:06:15,249 --> 00:06:16,918
And so I would--
that was, like,
139
00:06:16,959 --> 00:06:19,587
my spot kinda waiting
for my mom to come home.
140
00:06:19,629 --> 00:06:22,423
This is the image that I have:
my sister upstairs on the phone
141
00:06:22,465 --> 00:06:25,593
-- she's in junior high --
I'm sitting in the bay window,
142
00:06:25,635 --> 00:06:28,554
my dad's at the dinner table...
143
00:06:28,596 --> 00:06:30,390
with the cold dinner
waiting for my mom to come home.
144
00:06:30,431 --> 00:06:32,892
Whoa.
145
00:06:32,934 --> 00:06:36,729
His father had
said that he will...
146
00:06:36,771 --> 00:06:39,399
go to his grave
shaking his head...
147
00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:42,568
in not understand--
in just not knowing...
148
00:06:42,610 --> 00:06:44,570
-How did that happen?
-How did it happen.
149
00:06:44,612 --> 00:06:45,905
What do you mean?
150
00:06:45,947 --> 00:06:46,989
Like, I think he
couldn't believe that she
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00:06:47,031 --> 00:06:48,491
would leave him.
152
00:06:48,533 --> 00:06:50,660
-So I think it's his own--
-Because?
153
00:06:50,701 --> 00:06:52,495
I think a little
bit of his own ego.
154
00:06:52,537 --> 00:06:54,080
I think...
155
00:06:54,122 --> 00:06:58,918
he couldn't see his part, that
he had maybe not given her...
156
00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:00,962
what she really needed...
157
00:07:01,003 --> 00:07:02,547
-What she was--
-Mm-hm.
158
00:07:02,588 --> 00:07:04,298
-You know, longing for.
159
00:07:04,340 --> 00:07:07,218
-What are you thinking?
-I mean...
160
00:07:07,260 --> 00:07:09,220
Which, of course, is
ironic because here,
161
00:07:09,262 --> 00:07:12,223
Molly's asking for
what she really needs,
162
00:07:12,265 --> 00:07:14,892
and I'm having a hard time...
163
00:07:14,934 --> 00:07:16,227
potentially--
164
00:07:16,269 --> 00:07:17,895
But the two of you are
living with that script
165
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in the background:
166
00:07:20,314 --> 00:07:24,402
conflict leads to, like,
the ultimate breakup...
167
00:07:24,444 --> 00:07:27,113
and abandonment.
168
00:07:27,155 --> 00:07:29,490
Yeah.
169
00:07:32,702 --> 00:07:34,620
I don't know, the
notion of, like,
170
00:07:34,662 --> 00:07:36,956
sitting in that window...
171
00:07:36,998 --> 00:07:40,460
like, I-- when I
think about that kid,
172
00:07:40,501 --> 00:07:43,129
I'm like...
173
00:07:43,171 --> 00:07:48,176
Like, I identify with
characters in stories that...
174
00:07:49,510 --> 00:07:50,636
that are good at hiding--
175
00:07:50,678 --> 00:07:52,305
-Mm-hm.
-To survive.
176
00:07:52,346 --> 00:07:54,140
Right?
Like kids-- like the kids--
177
00:07:54,182 --> 00:07:56,309
-Behind the curtain.
-Yeah, sure.
178
00:07:56,350 --> 00:07:58,644
Kids in the story who...
179
00:07:58,686 --> 00:08:01,147
hide from the monster
instead of fight it.
180
00:08:01,189 --> 00:08:02,732
Mm-hm.
181
00:08:02,773 --> 00:08:06,235
It's upsetting, but it also
seems relevant to something
182
00:08:06,277 --> 00:08:09,989
between the two of you.
183
00:08:10,823 --> 00:08:13,451
Do you hear that?
184
00:08:13,493 --> 00:08:17,038
I do think that when I was...
185
00:08:17,079 --> 00:08:18,664
spending time
with other people--
186
00:08:18,706 --> 00:08:20,291
Mm-hm.
187
00:08:20,333 --> 00:08:23,544
I do feel like he was...
188
00:08:23,586 --> 00:08:26,172
Waiting behind the
curtain, for sure, yeah.
189
00:08:26,214 --> 00:08:29,509
-Yeah.
-Yeah.
190
00:08:31,344 --> 00:08:34,847
mellow ambient music
191
00:08:54,742 --> 00:08:56,702
Ooh!
192
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This water's cold as fuck!
193
00:08:58,412 --> 00:09:01,457
Go, baby, go!
Go!
194
00:09:14,845 --> 00:09:19,350
So we had a drive down to
Virginia Beach this weekend,
195
00:09:19,392 --> 00:09:22,770
and I think it was one of
the best drives we've had.
196
00:09:22,812 --> 00:09:25,356
Even though we had
the kids in the car,
197
00:09:25,398 --> 00:09:27,733
we left so late that
once they were in the car,
198
00:09:27,775 --> 00:09:29,443
they just fell asleep.
199
00:09:29,485 --> 00:09:31,404
-Great.
-It was, like, instant.
200
00:09:31,445 --> 00:09:35,366
Yeah, so then that left
us to literally drive for, what?
201
00:09:35,408 --> 00:09:36,617
Six and
a half hours.
202
00:09:36,659 --> 00:09:38,035
Six and a half
hours to get down there,
203
00:09:38,077 --> 00:09:40,705
and we were
able to just...talk.
204
00:09:40,746 --> 00:09:42,081
We didn't even
have the music on,
205
00:09:42,123 --> 00:09:43,457
nothing,
we were just talking.
206
00:09:43,499 --> 00:09:45,126
Mm-hm.
207
00:09:45,167 --> 00:09:46,877
And I realized that my anger
towards my parents is being
208
00:09:46,919 --> 00:09:48,921
projected onto her.
209
00:09:48,963 --> 00:09:50,423
Oh.
210
00:09:50,464 --> 00:09:52,425
Then, I started
to realize, "Okay.
211
00:09:52,466 --> 00:09:55,094
You are not my
parents, you are my wife."
212
00:09:55,136 --> 00:09:56,429
Mm-hm.
213
00:09:56,470 --> 00:09:58,264
"And what do
I want from you?
214
00:09:58,306 --> 00:10:01,434
So you're showing me the...
215
00:10:01,475 --> 00:10:04,103
confidence that you have, or
you're showing me that you're
216
00:10:04,145 --> 00:10:05,438
fighting for it."
217
00:10:05,479 --> 00:10:08,691
Mm-hm.
As in how?
218
00:10:08,733 --> 00:10:10,693
Like we were talking
and her tone was changing,
219
00:10:10,735 --> 00:10:12,612
and I was like,
"I don't like the way
220
00:10:12,653 --> 00:10:14,113
you're talking
to me right now."
221
00:10:14,155 --> 00:10:15,448
Excellent.
222
00:10:15,489 --> 00:10:16,616
So then she kinda, like,
readjusted and we just kept
223
00:10:16,657 --> 00:10:17,950
with the conversation.
224
00:10:17,992 --> 00:10:20,453
-Mm-hm.
-At first, I was like, "Oh.
225
00:10:20,494 --> 00:10:22,288
Okay, she's...
226
00:10:22,330 --> 00:10:24,081
she's manning up...
227
00:10:24,123 --> 00:10:25,666
just like I said."
228
00:10:25,708 --> 00:10:27,627
And I was like,
"Okay, you're right."
229
00:10:27,668 --> 00:10:29,920
-I need that, um--
-It was helpful.
230
00:10:29,962 --> 00:10:32,590
Yeah.
231
00:10:32,632 --> 00:10:37,637
You know, all I really
wanted was for her to just...
232
00:10:38,220 --> 00:10:39,805
get her power back.
233
00:10:39,847 --> 00:10:41,599
I told her, "Just glow-up."
234
00:10:41,641 --> 00:10:42,850
Mm-hm.
235
00:10:42,892 --> 00:10:45,186
I don't want you
to be backstage, like...
236
00:10:45,227 --> 00:10:46,771
Yeah.
237
00:10:46,812 --> 00:10:49,440
When we first were together,
I needed someone to take care
238
00:10:49,482 --> 00:10:51,859
of me.
I'm not there anymore.
239
00:10:51,901 --> 00:10:54,070
It's more than
you don't need that,
240
00:10:54,111 --> 00:10:56,238
it's preventing both
of you from growing.
241
00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:58,032
I'm coddling her, I'm
keeping her in this...
242
00:10:58,074 --> 00:10:59,075
-Shell.
-Mm-hm.
243
00:10:59,116 --> 00:11:00,576
-Yeah.
-Sleeping bag.
244
00:11:00,618 --> 00:11:03,079
-Yeah.
-I forgot about that one.
245
00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:04,997
-Mm-hm.
246
00:11:05,039 --> 00:11:07,333
But I can see that
she's putting in an effort.
247
00:11:07,375 --> 00:11:09,835
She actually got in
the water at the beach.
248
00:11:09,877 --> 00:11:11,420
She doesn't
usually do that.
249
00:11:11,462 --> 00:11:13,673
-Yeah.
-I was like, "Okay."
250
00:11:13,714 --> 00:11:15,132
And it was nice.
251
00:11:15,174 --> 00:11:17,176
I normally don't do that,
and I'm "Do you need something?
252
00:11:17,218 --> 00:11:19,428
Do you need a towel?
253
00:11:19,470 --> 00:11:21,430
Do you need a sand
thing to make a..."
254
00:11:21,472 --> 00:11:23,182
-She plays it safe all the time.
-Yeah.
255
00:11:23,224 --> 00:11:25,017
This weekend, she was a
little bit more loose,
256
00:11:25,059 --> 00:11:28,479
and I appreciated that.
257
00:11:28,521 --> 00:11:32,650
So, okay, that sounds very good
-- this conversation you had,
258
00:11:32,692 --> 00:11:34,694
this trip, what
you're describing.
259
00:11:34,735 --> 00:11:36,070
Yeah.
260
00:11:36,112 --> 00:11:39,198
Tell me more about
what's been on your mind.
261
00:11:40,741 --> 00:11:42,368
We still have not
been intimate yet.
262
00:11:42,410 --> 00:11:43,494
-Yeah.
-Mm-hm.
263
00:11:43,536 --> 00:11:44,745
We talked
about that, right?
264
00:11:44,787 --> 00:11:45,871
And I said, "You know what?
265
00:11:45,913 --> 00:11:47,206
There's too many
people in our house."
266
00:11:47,248 --> 00:11:49,166
Just because, like,
her mother lives with us.
267
00:11:49,208 --> 00:11:50,710
Mm-hm.
268
00:11:50,751 --> 00:11:53,421
So this is what I'm gonna do:
I'm going to have ...
269
00:11:53,462 --> 00:11:56,882
her brother's family,
like, take the kids overnight,
270
00:11:56,924 --> 00:11:58,509
and I was like, "And
I'm gonna tell your mom,
271
00:11:58,551 --> 00:12:00,094
'Go...
to the casino--
272
00:12:00,136 --> 00:12:01,387
-"With your sister."
-To the casino.
273
00:12:01,429 --> 00:12:03,055
-Sleep over at her house.'"
-Mm-hm.
274
00:12:03,097 --> 00:12:04,890
-So that it's just us.
-Nice.
275
00:12:04,932 --> 00:12:05,891
And if it
happens, it happens.
276
00:12:05,933 --> 00:12:07,476
If it doesn't, then it doesn't.
277
00:12:07,518 --> 00:12:09,979
But we have that liberty that if
we wanna be free in the house...
278
00:12:10,020 --> 00:12:12,064
-Mm-hm.
-We're free in the house.
279
00:12:12,106 --> 00:12:14,400
-Nice.
-So...
280
00:12:14,442 --> 00:12:18,404
So each of you needs certain
things in order to even enter...
281
00:12:18,446 --> 00:12:20,823
-That space.
-An erotic state-of-mind.
282
00:12:20,865 --> 00:12:22,074
Yes.
283
00:12:22,116 --> 00:12:23,909
Yeah, it has to be a
controlled environment.
284
00:12:23,951 --> 00:12:25,077
Mm-hm.
285
00:12:25,119 --> 00:12:28,664
Because it's just
like a lot of my...
286
00:12:28,706 --> 00:12:32,752
control issues -- because
they're control -- like, I...
287
00:12:32,793 --> 00:12:34,712
like the control because
I didn't have the control
288
00:12:34,754 --> 00:12:36,881
growing up.
Like, I...
289
00:12:36,922 --> 00:12:41,218
grew up in chaos, so
I need to control A, B, C.
290
00:12:41,260 --> 00:12:42,887
Mm-hm.
291
00:12:42,928 --> 00:12:44,305
You know, like
it has to be like this.
292
00:12:44,346 --> 00:12:45,806
You know, like, I
had that insecurity,
293
00:12:45,848 --> 00:12:47,433
like, "Oh, any day now.
294
00:12:47,475 --> 00:12:49,101
Like, are we still gonna be
living here or are we not gonna
295
00:12:49,143 --> 00:12:51,145
be living here?
Are we gonna have...
296
00:12:51,187 --> 00:12:53,272
enough for food or are we not
gonna have enough for food?"
297
00:12:53,314 --> 00:12:54,815
Mm-hm.
298
00:12:54,857 --> 00:12:56,984
Like, there was one time, like,
when we got evicted from the
299
00:12:57,026 --> 00:12:58,903
apartment...
300
00:12:58,944 --> 00:13:00,112
What was
the eviction about?
301
00:13:00,154 --> 00:13:01,155
What happened there?
302
00:13:01,197 --> 00:13:02,406
I think my mom
wasn't paying rent;
303
00:13:02,448 --> 00:13:03,949
I don't even know.
304
00:13:03,991 --> 00:13:05,242
Like, it just got to a
point where we were like,
305
00:13:05,284 --> 00:13:06,744
"Oh, we're
getting evicted again."
306
00:13:06,786 --> 00:13:09,455
But what was going on with her?
307
00:13:10,831 --> 00:13:13,125
She just didn't pay.
308
00:13:13,167 --> 00:13:14,376
She didn't pay rent.
309
00:13:14,418 --> 00:13:16,462
I don't know what she
used the money for.
310
00:13:16,504 --> 00:13:19,465
So she just
consistently...
311
00:13:19,507 --> 00:13:22,802
doesn't show up as a
mother, as a caretaker?
312
00:13:22,843 --> 00:13:24,136
Yeah.
313
00:13:24,178 --> 00:13:25,805
I feel like she
always has, like,
314
00:13:25,846 --> 00:13:27,139
these empty words, right?
315
00:13:27,181 --> 00:13:28,808
Like, she'll say...
316
00:13:28,849 --> 00:13:29,975
When I was
pregnant, she was like,
317
00:13:30,017 --> 00:13:31,644
"Oh, when you're
gonna give birth,
318
00:13:31,685 --> 00:13:33,646
I'm gonna come," 'cause she
was in the Dominican Republic.
319
00:13:33,687 --> 00:13:35,564
"I'm gonna come and be
here for the birth."
320
00:13:35,606 --> 00:13:36,982
I said, "This is my due date.
321
00:13:37,024 --> 00:13:38,818
If she comes, she comes."
322
00:13:38,859 --> 00:13:40,152
She didn't come.
323
00:13:40,194 --> 00:13:41,695
Right?
324
00:13:41,737 --> 00:13:43,322
"Oh, when you're gonna do the--
when you guys have a date for
325
00:13:43,364 --> 00:13:44,698
the baptism...
326
00:13:44,740 --> 00:13:46,659
right?
Lemme know."
327
00:13:46,700 --> 00:13:49,286
And I said, "Okay,
here's the date."
328
00:13:49,328 --> 00:13:50,454
"I'm gonna make it."
329
00:13:50,496 --> 00:13:51,997
She didn't come.
330
00:13:52,039 --> 00:13:53,833
So...
331
00:13:53,874 --> 00:13:57,503
This is very, um...
332
00:13:58,671 --> 00:14:02,174
upsetting stuff that
you're describing.
333
00:14:03,217 --> 00:14:05,803
It is, and I know,
like, as I talk about it,
334
00:14:05,845 --> 00:14:08,138
like, I feel the anger,
I feel the resentment--
335
00:14:08,180 --> 00:14:12,017
The anger, and the
long-standing kind of...
336
00:14:12,059 --> 00:14:14,270
impasse and grudge that
you've been living with.
337
00:14:14,311 --> 00:14:15,521
Mm-hm, yeah.
338
00:14:15,563 --> 00:14:17,106
That's an engine
you need to connect to.
339
00:14:17,147 --> 00:14:18,190
Yeah.
340
00:14:18,232 --> 00:14:19,358
Rather than
shutting it down.
341
00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:21,026
Mm-hm.
342
00:14:21,068 --> 00:14:24,947
Sounds like you have
pretty good reasons to be angry.
343
00:14:25,114 --> 00:14:27,575
I know.
344
00:14:28,993 --> 00:14:30,202
So all that affects us.
345
00:14:30,244 --> 00:14:32,538
-Mm-hm.
-Yeah.
346
00:14:32,580 --> 00:14:34,790
We should think about how.
347
00:14:34,832 --> 00:14:36,208
Okay.
348
00:14:36,250 --> 00:14:39,378
Because Cyn, when
you act like Yaya's mother--
349
00:14:39,420 --> 00:14:40,713
Mm-hm.
350
00:14:40,754 --> 00:14:42,381
By not
treating her well,
351
00:14:42,423 --> 00:14:44,383
she shuts down.
352
00:14:44,425 --> 00:14:45,718
Yeah.
353
00:14:45,759 --> 00:14:46,969
But it seems to
me like you're kinda tired
354
00:14:47,011 --> 00:14:49,430
of that dynamic.
355
00:14:49,471 --> 00:14:52,808
-Yeah.
-Good.
356
00:14:53,934 --> 00:14:58,230
mellow ambient music
357
00:15:04,069 --> 00:15:07,615
An important part of
couples work is to identify the
358
00:15:07,656 --> 00:15:12,036
key dynamic that you think
will make the most change.
359
00:15:12,077 --> 00:15:13,579
There are times where
we'll have conversations,
360
00:15:13,621 --> 00:15:15,539
you'll tell me that you
don't want me to speak,
361
00:15:15,581 --> 00:15:17,249
or it's bullshit.
362
00:15:17,291 --> 00:15:19,460
I've never said that.
363
00:15:19,501 --> 00:15:23,255
I'm telling you I'm feeling
like I'm not being heard!
364
00:15:23,422 --> 00:15:28,093
It seems to me that you do a
lot of regulating each other...
365
00:15:28,135 --> 00:15:31,430
and less recognizing each other.
366
00:15:31,472 --> 00:15:33,933
-Yes!
-Yeah.
367
00:15:33,974 --> 00:15:35,768
True.
368
00:15:35,809 --> 00:15:38,938
Sometimes, they might
be too vulnerable to hear what I
369
00:15:38,979 --> 00:15:42,775
need to say, so
timing is everything,
370
00:15:42,816 --> 00:15:45,027
and I don't always get it right.
371
00:15:45,069 --> 00:15:48,447
I feel like there's a lot of
confusion for each of you about
372
00:15:48,489 --> 00:15:51,033
what's going on inside of you.
373
00:15:51,075 --> 00:15:52,368
Hm.
374
00:15:52,409 --> 00:15:54,119
I guess my issue is I
don't feel confused.
375
00:15:54,161 --> 00:15:55,287
Mm-hm.
376
00:15:55,329 --> 00:15:56,664
Like, only you
make me feel confused.
377
00:15:58,165 --> 00:15:59,750
Couples
do all these, like,
378
00:15:59,792 --> 00:16:03,253
funny maneuvers defending each
other and protecting each other,
379
00:16:03,295 --> 00:16:05,255
and everything
gets, like, hidden.
380
00:16:05,297 --> 00:16:06,507
There's some things
that I don't-- like,
381
00:16:06,548 --> 00:16:07,758
I have to go home with her.
382
00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:09,093
You don't wanna say things--
383
00:16:09,134 --> 00:16:11,929
I don't wanna
hurt her feelings.
384
00:16:11,971 --> 00:16:14,598
Mm-hm.
385
00:16:15,808 --> 00:16:17,351
So as
their therapist,
386
00:16:17,393 --> 00:16:21,271
I wanna see
through their defenses.
387
00:16:21,313 --> 00:16:24,775
It's like a puzzle that
I keep wanting to solve.
388
00:16:35,703 --> 00:16:36,662
She's
really well-behaved
389
00:16:36,704 --> 00:16:37,496
when she's here with you.
390
00:16:37,538 --> 00:16:39,164
Mm-hm.
391
00:16:39,206 --> 00:16:43,669
She listens, and I feel like
there's an actual dialogue, and
392
00:16:43,711 --> 00:16:46,171
I feel like even when she's
talking about her feelings,
393
00:16:46,213 --> 00:16:48,007
she communicates in
a more effective way.
394
00:16:48,048 --> 00:16:49,508
Mm-hm.
395
00:16:49,550 --> 00:16:51,593
But whenever we try
to do it on our own,
396
00:16:51,635 --> 00:16:53,846
it's completely different.
397
00:16:53,887 --> 00:16:56,598
Do you understand
what Will is saying?
398
00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:57,850
Yeah.
399
00:16:57,891 --> 00:16:59,184
Um...
400
00:16:59,226 --> 00:17:00,894
I call bullshit.
401
00:17:00,936 --> 00:17:03,856
Okay, but that's exactly the
opposite of what I'm asking you,
402
00:17:03,897 --> 00:17:06,233
so... let's just note--
403
00:17:06,275 --> 00:17:07,818
This is why I don't tell
you anything, because I--
404
00:17:07,860 --> 00:17:09,445
-No.
-Right.
405
00:17:09,486 --> 00:17:10,821
According to you, everything I
say and everything that comes
406
00:17:10,863 --> 00:17:12,823
out of my mouth is
bullshit, so why bother?
407
00:17:12,865 --> 00:17:14,491
Okay, well,
then don't, then.
408
00:17:14,533 --> 00:17:15,909
Then shut up.
409
00:17:15,951 --> 00:17:17,911
-Because you're--
-I'm sorry, what is this?
410
00:17:17,953 --> 00:17:21,331
He likes to think that
he is this person where,
411
00:17:21,373 --> 00:17:22,875
you know, "I'm
trying to communicate,
412
00:17:22,916 --> 00:17:24,668
I'm the peacemaker,
I'm blah blah blah."
413
00:17:24,710 --> 00:17:26,378
He is not.
414
00:17:26,420 --> 00:17:27,504
He is not.
415
00:17:27,546 --> 00:17:30,382
Okay, so do you
wanna do therapy?
416
00:17:30,424 --> 00:17:32,009
I thought that's
what we were here for.
417
00:17:32,051 --> 00:17:34,553
Okay, so abusing each
other is not therapeutic.
418
00:17:34,595 --> 00:17:36,889
-Exactly, yeah.
-So don't.
419
00:17:36,930 --> 00:17:38,307
I'm trying not to,
which is why I'm--
420
00:17:38,348 --> 00:17:40,225
-So Ping?
-On my best behavior.
421
00:17:40,267 --> 00:17:42,227
-Ping!
Look at me--
422
00:17:42,269 --> 00:17:44,396
-I am looking at you.
-And try to follow my advice.
423
00:17:44,438 --> 00:17:45,731
Okay.
424
00:17:45,773 --> 00:17:47,232
What you're doing
right now is destructive;
425
00:17:47,274 --> 00:17:48,984
it's not therapy.
426
00:17:49,026 --> 00:17:50,736
So just don't do it now.
427
00:17:55,115 --> 00:17:56,992
I understand
his frustration.
428
00:17:57,034 --> 00:17:58,243
With?
429
00:17:58,285 --> 00:17:59,578
With me.
430
00:17:59,620 --> 00:18:03,874
I understand that he
doesn't know how to handle
431
00:18:03,916 --> 00:18:06,960
it when I get angry because...
432
00:18:07,002 --> 00:18:09,379
he just sees the
anger, and he doesn't see
433
00:18:09,421 --> 00:18:11,298
what is underneath it.
434
00:18:11,340 --> 00:18:13,217
Mm-hm.
435
00:18:13,258 --> 00:18:16,595
In previous therapies,
when you got to this point,
436
00:18:16,637 --> 00:18:18,722
what happened?
437
00:18:18,764 --> 00:18:22,142
I'm not sure we've gotten...
438
00:18:22,184 --> 00:18:24,144
this far.
439
00:18:24,186 --> 00:18:25,646
Mm-hm.
440
00:18:25,687 --> 00:18:28,398
We were allowed to kind of
just fight with each other,
441
00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:29,566
to the point where--
442
00:18:29,608 --> 00:18:30,734
That's not helpful.
443
00:18:30,776 --> 00:18:32,111
The person was
just like, "Okay, well..."
444
00:18:32,152 --> 00:18:33,612
-Yeah.
-"You know..."
445
00:18:33,654 --> 00:18:35,405
-"What do you wanna do?"
446
00:18:35,447 --> 00:18:36,740
At one point,
I am just like--
447
00:18:36,782 --> 00:18:38,784
That's not what
happened, is y--
448
00:18:38,826 --> 00:18:41,453
You know, the therapist
said something you didn't like,
449
00:18:41,495 --> 00:18:43,622
then she gets
triggered and she blows up,
450
00:18:43,664 --> 00:18:45,457
and then we fire the therapist.
451
00:18:45,499 --> 00:18:47,209
Mm-hm.
452
00:18:47,251 --> 00:18:50,295
So we still haven't figured
out what I'm doing to trigger--
453
00:18:50,337 --> 00:18:52,965
like, what that trigger is
and what I'm triggering.
454
00:18:53,006 --> 00:18:55,134
So let's try.
455
00:18:56,844 --> 00:19:01,807
So I guess it all goes
back to just being...
456
00:19:02,057 --> 00:19:04,643
acknowledged as someone
important in his life.
457
00:19:04,685 --> 00:19:06,228
-Mm-hm.
-Right?
458
00:19:06,270 --> 00:19:08,814
And I think, yeah, a lot of that
goes back to my own childhood.
459
00:19:08,856 --> 00:19:10,649
Yeah, a lot of neglect.
460
00:19:10,691 --> 00:19:12,776
A lot of neglect,
a lot of, you know,
461
00:19:12,818 --> 00:19:16,822
no one telling me that I was
good or smart or whatever,
462
00:19:16,864 --> 00:19:19,658
and it...
463
00:19:19,700 --> 00:19:20,701
it stays with you.
464
00:19:20,742 --> 00:19:22,077
Mm-hm.
465
00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:24,121
The way that it-- in
which it plays out with us,
466
00:19:24,163 --> 00:19:25,622
with the
lifestyle as an example,
467
00:19:25,664 --> 00:19:27,291
if we're embarking
on this together,
468
00:19:27,332 --> 00:19:30,127
then we need to be a solid
unit, we need to be a team,
469
00:19:30,169 --> 00:19:31,962
we need to be partners.
470
00:19:32,004 --> 00:19:34,298
But there's a part of me
that always feels like "Okay,
471
00:19:34,339 --> 00:19:37,134
well, I kind of feel
like you're just...
472
00:19:37,176 --> 00:19:39,136
you're using me.
473
00:19:39,178 --> 00:19:40,470
Right?
474
00:19:40,512 --> 00:19:42,806
To-- to enjoy this
lifestyle and...
475
00:19:42,848 --> 00:19:45,642
everything that I need from
you in order to feel special,
476
00:19:45,684 --> 00:19:49,021
to feel like a
partner, I'm not getting."
477
00:19:49,438 --> 00:19:52,608
Okay, so we talked about this
a few weeks ago when we were
478
00:19:52,649 --> 00:19:56,528
talking about the choice to
live kind of a non-monogamous--
479
00:19:56,570 --> 00:19:58,197
-Right.
-Life, right?
480
00:19:58,238 --> 00:20:01,116
Which is
interesting if one of your...
481
00:20:01,158 --> 00:20:05,537
tender spots has to
do with feeling...
482
00:20:05,579 --> 00:20:06,705
not special--
483
00:20:06,747 --> 00:20:08,207
-Mm-hm.
-Not seen.
484
00:20:08,248 --> 00:20:09,875
-Right.
-Right?
485
00:20:09,917 --> 00:20:14,546
You'd think that if you wanted
to really address that fully,
486
00:20:14,588 --> 00:20:19,593
you'd want, like, a
super-monogamous...
487
00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:22,763
tight kind of relationship.
488
00:20:22,930 --> 00:20:25,849
Right?
So the choice to...
489
00:20:25,891 --> 00:20:29,770
enter situations
in which that is...
490
00:20:29,811 --> 00:20:32,189
at play is interesting, right?
491
00:20:32,231 --> 00:20:34,066
-That you're--
-Right.
492
00:20:34,107 --> 00:20:36,860
It's like you're--
in a way, you're...
493
00:20:36,902 --> 00:20:40,197
you're setting up a
situation to provoke yourself.
494
00:20:40,489 --> 00:20:42,908
Which is interesting.
495
00:20:44,826 --> 00:20:48,413
It reminds me of what you said
about Korea -- that in a way,
496
00:20:48,455 --> 00:20:52,751
you kind of have this-- you
orchestrate a certain plan,
497
00:20:52,793 --> 00:20:56,421
and then you set yourself
up to feel left behind,
498
00:20:56,463 --> 00:20:57,673
not thought of.
499
00:20:57,714 --> 00:20:59,424
Right.
500
00:20:59,466 --> 00:21:02,594
So there is
some way that you're...
501
00:21:02,636 --> 00:21:05,597
kind of unconsciously creating
these scenes for yourself where
502
00:21:05,639 --> 00:21:09,351
you get to revisit what
has hurt you the most.
503
00:21:22,656 --> 00:21:26,201
You both seem
suddenly quite sad.
504
00:21:26,243 --> 00:21:29,788
What's going on?
505
00:21:30,122 --> 00:21:34,084
I feel like that lifestyle
helped me kinda come out of my
506
00:21:34,126 --> 00:21:36,336
shell a little bit...
507
00:21:36,378 --> 00:21:40,007
and I thought
by meeting him that I found a
508
00:21:40,048 --> 00:21:41,633
partner, you know?
509
00:21:41,675 --> 00:21:44,720
That would see me and...
510
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:57,566
And I think what
makes me sad is I just...
511
00:22:01,528 --> 00:22:04,823
I don't really think he sees me.
512
00:22:07,534 --> 00:22:09,494
Well, I have a
couple of thoughts,
513
00:22:09,536 --> 00:22:12,831
but first, I
wanna say that, um...
514
00:22:12,873 --> 00:22:16,001
these kind of early
experiences of deprivation and
515
00:22:16,043 --> 00:22:20,797
neglect sit very deep,
516
00:22:20,839 --> 00:22:22,507
and...
517
00:22:22,549 --> 00:22:27,679
there's a certain
degree of being unseen that...
518
00:22:27,721 --> 00:22:30,766
you're gonna
have to live with...
519
00:22:30,807 --> 00:22:32,684
in the sense that it's
always gonna be there,
520
00:22:32,726 --> 00:22:36,646
it's not like somebody else can
come in and see you the way you
521
00:22:36,688 --> 00:22:40,025
needed to be seen then.
522
00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:45,155
So there's a certain pain that
you're living with that this
523
00:22:45,197 --> 00:22:48,784
relationship can't fix.
524
00:22:51,912 --> 00:22:56,958
"Creature of Habit"
by Elizabeth Moen
525
00:23:12,265 --> 00:23:16,895
I'm a creature of habit
when I'm feeling low
526
00:23:21,858 --> 00:23:26,905
Asking myself questions I
already know the answers to
527
00:23:31,451 --> 00:23:36,456
I've been trying to
sleep on my other side
528
00:23:40,794 --> 00:23:45,841
I've been trying to
keep you off my mind
529
00:23:50,971 --> 00:23:56,017
I wish I had another
face in front of mine
530
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:05,110
I wish I had some other
way to pass the time...
531
00:24:09,030 --> 00:24:14,077
I wish I were in love
532
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:21,668
Then I'd have
something to do
533
00:24:24,504 --> 00:24:29,509
I wish I had someone
534
00:24:32,679 --> 00:24:37,684
To pay attention to
535
00:24:39,519 --> 00:24:43,815
So I could stop
thinking of you
536
00:24:48,236 --> 00:24:53,283
I'm a creature of habit
when I'm feeling good
537
00:24:57,662 --> 00:25:02,626
Calling up a lover
when I'm in the mood
538
00:25:03,335 --> 00:25:07,672
And wine has helped
44286
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