All language subtitles for Couples Therapy (2019) - S03E02 - 302 (1080p AMZN WEB-DL x265 Silence)_track3_[eng]

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These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:06,589 --> 00:00:11,052 upbeat funky music 2 00:00:47,922 --> 00:00:49,716 Let me check out my                face in the mirror. 3 00:00:51,926 --> 00:00:54,262 You can take off  that stupid bandana. 4 00:00:54,721 --> 00:00:55,889 Huh? 5 00:00:55,930 --> 00:00:57,307 Just take off  that stupid bandana. 6 00:00:57,348 --> 00:00:59,642 I like it,                  it's comfortable. 7 00:01:02,353 --> 00:01:04,230 There you go.                      There you go. 8 00:01:14,741 --> 00:01:16,576 There's                12 years between us. 9 00:01:16,618 --> 00:01:18,244 Does it feel like  a big difference? 10 00:01:18,286 --> 00:01:19,079 It didn't-- 11 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:20,080 It didn't used to. 12 00:01:20,121 --> 00:01:21,915 Yeah, our first                few years together, 13 00:01:21,956 --> 00:01:25,085 we didn't-- it             never became an issue, 14 00:01:25,126 --> 00:01:26,836 and in fact, we almost,            like, bragged about it, 15 00:01:26,878 --> 00:01:30,256 like "There's his huge age    gap, but we're making it work." 16 00:01:30,298 --> 00:01:30,924 Yeah. 17 00:01:30,965 --> 00:01:34,552 But now, I feel like he  wants to be somewhere else, 18 00:01:34,594 --> 00:01:39,265 doing something else, and a lot  of our conflict comes when we're 19 00:01:39,307 --> 00:01:42,477 talking about what I  want and what he wants, 20 00:01:42,519 --> 00:01:45,271 and it's not the same. 21 00:01:45,313 --> 00:01:46,731 Mm-hm. 22 00:01:46,773 --> 00:01:50,902 Well, I think what she's    referring to is I spent a year 23 00:01:50,944 --> 00:01:52,153 in Korea. 24 00:01:52,195 --> 00:01:53,279 Why there? 25 00:01:53,321 --> 00:01:55,281 To teach  English overseas. 26 00:01:55,323 --> 00:01:57,283 There was a course                 I had mentioned, 27 00:01:57,325 --> 00:01:58,785 and she was like, "Do you  still have the information about 28 00:01:58,827 --> 00:01:59,953 that course? 29 00:01:59,994 --> 00:02:01,287 And let's sign up for it. 30 00:02:01,329 --> 00:02:04,541 And let's get our, um, ESL       license and let's go do it." 31 00:02:04,582 --> 00:02:05,625 For both of you to go teach? 32 00:02:05,667 --> 00:02:06,626 For both of us, yeah. 33 00:02:06,668 --> 00:02:07,460 Mm-hm. 34 00:02:07,502 --> 00:02:08,711 Uh-huh. 35 00:02:08,753 --> 00:02:09,712 So we got  licensed and everything, 36 00:02:09,754 --> 00:02:11,256 and we were like,       "Okay, now it's time to go." 37 00:02:11,297 --> 00:02:14,134 And so I started                searching for jobs, 38 00:02:14,175 --> 00:02:16,761 and she was dragging her feet,     and she was dragging her feet, 39 00:02:16,803 --> 00:02:20,557 and then that caused               tons of arguments. 40 00:02:20,598 --> 00:02:24,477 What was the crux there? 41 00:02:24,519 --> 00:02:27,772 What I wasn't prepared for  was four months after we got 42 00:02:27,814 --> 00:02:32,819 married, that he made  the decision to go and... 43 00:02:33,194 --> 00:02:34,154 without me. 44 00:02:34,195 --> 00:02:35,488 We made the                    decision to go. 45 00:02:35,530 --> 00:02:36,739 It's another              thing we disagree on. 46 00:02:38,241 --> 00:02:40,493 For me, it was about being  different than the person I used 47 00:02:40,535 --> 00:02:41,953 to be. 48 00:02:41,995 --> 00:02:44,497 If I'm honest, a part of me  really didn't want to do it. 49 00:02:44,539 --> 00:02:45,790 I see. 50 00:02:45,832 --> 00:02:48,334 So you were operating with two  different parts of yourself? 51 00:02:48,376 --> 00:02:49,836 Exactly. 52 00:02:49,878 --> 00:02:53,173 The two voices are saying,  "You really wanna support him," 53 00:02:53,214 --> 00:02:55,508 on one hand, but then tell  him he can't go and do what he's 54 00:02:55,550 --> 00:02:56,634 been wanting to do. 55 00:02:56,676 --> 00:02:57,635 Mm-hm. 56 00:02:57,677 --> 00:02:58,178 I didn't want to  be that person. 57 00:02:58,219 --> 00:02:59,345 Mm-hm. 58 00:02:59,387 --> 00:03:02,182 But then, the  inner child in me says, 59 00:03:02,223 --> 00:03:04,475 "Wow, you're leaving me. 60 00:03:04,517 --> 00:03:05,894 How are you leaving me? 61 00:03:05,935 --> 00:03:07,937 I don't understand." 62 00:03:07,979 --> 00:03:09,272 So the adult says, "Go!" 63 00:03:09,314 --> 00:03:10,356 Yeah, the                  adult says, "Go." 64 00:03:10,398 --> 00:03:12,192 And the child  says, "Don't leave me." 65 00:03:12,233 --> 00:03:13,526 "Don't go,"                     yeah, exactly. 66 00:03:13,568 --> 00:03:14,527 Uh-huh. 67 00:03:14,569 --> 00:03:15,820 So I  was                   aware of that-- 68 00:03:15,862 --> 00:03:16,696 Confusing. 69 00:03:16,738 --> 00:03:17,197 It's                    confusing and-- 70 00:03:17,238 --> 00:03:17,989 For everyone. 71 00:03:18,031 --> 00:03:18,781 Yes, yeah. 72 00:03:19,991 --> 00:03:20,533 Yeah, for you and for you. 73 00:03:20,575 --> 00:03:20,950 Yes. 74 00:03:20,950 --> 00:03:22,202 Extremely confusing. 75 00:03:22,243 --> 00:03:23,703 Mm-hm. 76 00:03:23,745 --> 00:03:26,206 I was under the impression  that we decided as a couple this 77 00:03:26,247 --> 00:03:28,541 would be good for both of us. 78 00:03:28,583 --> 00:03:32,212 So I left for Korea                in August of 2019, 79 00:03:32,253 --> 00:03:35,715 I came back                    September 2020. 80 00:03:35,757 --> 00:03:39,052 And upon my return, I'm  finding none of that's true. 81 00:03:40,011 --> 00:03:41,387 What did you find? 82 00:03:41,429 --> 00:03:43,556 Well, the phrase she        keeps throwing out is 83 00:03:43,598 --> 00:03:45,767 I came back a stranger. 84 00:03:45,808 --> 00:03:47,393 Mm-hm. 85 00:03:47,435 --> 00:03:50,855 I would say I've                  grown or evolved. 86 00:03:50,897 --> 00:03:52,440 I had this awesome             experience over there. 87 00:03:52,482 --> 00:03:54,776 How could that not          change you or affect you, 88 00:03:54,817 --> 00:03:56,277 you know? 89 00:03:56,319 --> 00:03:58,238 The reality is we                 both have changed. 90 00:03:58,279 --> 00:04:00,573 Mm-hm. 91 00:04:00,615 --> 00:04:03,243 So he came                 back in September, 92 00:04:03,284 --> 00:04:06,204 and when he came off the       plane, he didn't hug me, 93 00:04:06,246 --> 00:04:07,830 he didn't kiss me,  and he was just like, 94 00:04:07,872 --> 00:04:10,541 "Eh, this feels so weird,  everything feels weird." 95 00:04:10,583 --> 00:04:11,960 And okay,  fine, you know? 96 00:04:12,001 --> 00:04:14,254 He needs time to adjust. 97 00:04:14,295 --> 00:04:17,048 But I don't think he appreciates  that what I was seeing was a 98 00:04:17,090 --> 00:04:20,677 stranger, and that, in  turn, affected our intimacy. 99 00:04:20,718 --> 00:04:22,262 Like, we used to  have a great sex life. 100 00:04:22,303 --> 00:04:24,430 Now, we have no sex life. 101 00:04:24,472 --> 00:04:25,223 And that's-- 102 00:04:25,265 --> 00:04:25,890 Well-- 103 00:04:25,932 --> 00:04:27,016 Hm?  Why? 104 00:04:27,058 --> 00:04:28,017 Yeah... 105 00:04:28,059 --> 00:04:29,769 I don't know, ask him. 106 00:04:29,811 --> 00:04:31,271 What do you think? 107 00:04:31,312 --> 00:04:36,276 I feel like she's                putting this on me. 108 00:04:36,317 --> 00:04:38,236 That whatever this                 no sex thing is, 109 00:04:38,278 --> 00:04:42,615 it's all for me to              figure out on my own. 110 00:04:42,657 --> 00:04:46,286 And you better do it quick,        'cause I'm losing patience. 111 00:04:46,327 --> 00:04:49,122 One of the reasons why I  married him was because I 112 00:04:49,163 --> 00:04:50,415 thought he was        gonna be my playmate, 113 00:04:50,456 --> 00:04:51,916 I thought he  was going to be 114 00:04:51,958 --> 00:04:54,294 my partner in  that sense, right? 115 00:04:54,335 --> 00:04:56,671 I thought we were going to  have an open marriage and open 116 00:04:56,713 --> 00:04:58,298 communication and  blah blah blah, 117 00:04:58,339 --> 00:05:01,259 and you've been  anything but open with me. 118 00:05:01,301 --> 00:05:04,470 He disappointed me on  such a fucking level, 119 00:05:04,512 --> 00:05:06,472 and now we're not  even having sex, 120 00:05:06,514 --> 00:05:07,598 and if we're not  gonna have sex anymore, 121 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:10,101 then I don't  want to be married. 122 00:05:10,143 --> 00:05:13,313 But maybe, Ping,           it sounds like something 123 00:05:13,354 --> 00:05:16,441 about the                      experience... 124 00:05:16,482 --> 00:05:21,487 of this departure -- of      this leaving -- has hurt you, 125 00:05:21,529 --> 00:05:25,658 you're speaking from a place  of desperation and a deep worry, 126 00:05:25,700 --> 00:05:30,496 but what's          ultimately coming out is, 127 00:05:30,538 --> 00:05:33,291 um, intimidation. 128 00:05:33,333 --> 00:05:34,834 Hm. 129 00:05:34,876 --> 00:05:36,919 And that aggression    kind of creates the opposite of 130 00:05:36,961 --> 00:05:39,339 what you're needing. 131 00:05:39,505 --> 00:05:43,343 So what you need to  do, then, is kind of... 132 00:05:43,384 --> 00:05:45,511 tame your dragon... 133 00:05:46,054 --> 00:05:49,974 and move it in a     slightly different direction-- 134 00:05:50,016 --> 00:05:51,100 I've been trying, yeah. 135 00:05:51,142 --> 00:05:53,102 So you still have             those strong feelings, 136 00:05:53,144 --> 00:05:57,815 but they indeed go towards  passion rather than aggression. 137 00:05:57,857 --> 00:05:59,150 Yeah, he calls it "Grendel." 138 00:05:59,192 --> 00:05:59,984 He named it. 139 00:06:00,026 --> 00:06:01,736 You called it "Grendel." 140 00:06:01,778 --> 00:06:03,488 That's her dragon,                that's her Grendel. 141 00:06:05,114 --> 00:06:06,657 And she always talks about how     the Grendel's there to protect 142 00:06:06,699 --> 00:06:08,159 the little girl inside. 143 00:06:08,201 --> 00:06:10,078 Mm-hm. 144 00:06:10,119 --> 00:06:12,121 The few times  she has been able to 145 00:06:12,163 --> 00:06:13,539 open up and                      I've seen her 146 00:06:13,581 --> 00:06:15,666 vulnerability, and I've            seen that desperation, 147 00:06:15,708 --> 00:06:18,503 I've seen that fear... 148 00:06:18,544 --> 00:06:20,463 it instantly melts                my heart, you know? 149 00:06:20,505 --> 00:06:22,882 And... 150 00:06:22,924 --> 00:06:24,717 I feel it too,                and I just want to, 151 00:06:24,759 --> 00:06:27,470 like, comfort her, and I           feel like those times, 152 00:06:27,512 --> 00:06:30,306 we instantly connect. 153 00:06:30,348 --> 00:06:33,142 But it's so rare             that happens that way. 154 00:06:33,184 --> 00:06:34,519 So rare it  happens that way. 155 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:36,396 Yeah. 156 00:06:39,399 --> 00:06:44,404 upbeat music 157 00:06:59,627 --> 00:07:01,504 Whoa! 158 00:07:13,182 --> 00:07:14,016 Hello, Orna. 159 00:07:14,058 --> 00:07:16,519 Hey. 160 00:07:16,561 --> 00:07:19,522 Oh, oh,              you're excited, okay. 161 00:07:19,564 --> 00:07:21,607 Hi. 162 00:07:21,858 --> 00:07:23,526 They're always drawn to you. 163 00:07:23,568 --> 00:07:24,569 All the time. 164 00:07:24,610 --> 00:07:25,361 Yeah? 165 00:07:25,403 --> 00:07:26,237 All the time. 166 00:07:26,279 --> 00:07:26,696 Really? 167 00:07:26,696 --> 00:07:28,364 All the time,                   it's always her. 168 00:07:28,406 --> 00:07:30,366 Whether it be kids,                whether it's dogs, 169 00:07:30,408 --> 00:07:31,367 it's always her. 170 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:32,743 What do  you make of it? 171 00:07:32,785 --> 00:07:33,411 I'm okay  with that. 172 00:07:33,453 --> 00:07:34,620 I'm like,  "Okay, go." 173 00:07:34,662 --> 00:07:35,788 But what do                    you make of it? 174 00:07:35,830 --> 00:07:38,040 That's 'cause                 she's so motherly. 175 00:07:38,082 --> 00:07:40,626 It's her, um--  it's her nature. 176 00:07:40,668 --> 00:07:42,462 Mm-hm, motherly. 177 00:07:42,503 --> 00:07:44,213 Extremely                    motherly, yeah. 178 00:07:45,673 --> 00:07:48,634 Which is a good thing;  there's nothing wrong with that. 179 00:07:48,676 --> 00:07:51,262 Nothing wrong  with that at all. 180 00:07:53,473 --> 00:07:56,642 Nothing wrong with that, but     maybe it's getting in your way 181 00:07:56,684 --> 00:07:57,643 a little bit-- 182 00:07:57,685 --> 00:07:58,227 Oh, yeah. 183 00:07:58,269 --> 00:08:00,563 As a couple. 184 00:08:00,730 --> 00:08:01,731 Oh. 185 00:08:01,772 --> 00:08:03,232 Oh. 186 00:08:03,274 --> 00:08:05,026 Oh. 187 00:08:05,067 --> 00:08:07,778 Oh, like "Hi, Mom." 188 00:08:07,820 --> 00:08:10,114 What, you think I           treat you like the kids? 189 00:08:12,700 --> 00:08:14,994 Orna, you don't         ease into this stuff, man. 190 00:08:19,123 --> 00:08:20,833 That just came  out of left field, wow! 191 00:08:24,712 --> 00:08:27,465 Okay, so tell me more      about what's going on between 192 00:08:27,507 --> 00:08:29,634 the two of you. 193 00:08:29,675 --> 00:08:32,512 Thoughts after our  first session... 194 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:35,598 So the whole  sex thing for us 195 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:38,017 like, I just... 196 00:08:38,059 --> 00:08:39,101 I don't                     want anything. 197 00:08:39,143 --> 00:08:40,269 Mm-hm. 198 00:08:40,311 --> 00:08:41,646 Like, even if she                  tries, I'm like, 199 00:08:41,687 --> 00:08:44,232 "No, I just..." 200 00:08:44,273 --> 00:08:46,692 And she's  tried several times. 201 00:08:46,734 --> 00:08:48,027 Mm-hm. 202 00:08:48,069 --> 00:08:51,489 I always tell her,  like, "When you're ready, 203 00:08:51,531 --> 00:08:56,494 like, I don't ever want  you to feel like if I push, 204 00:08:56,536 --> 00:08:58,538 that I'm  re-triggering something." 205 00:08:58,579 --> 00:09:01,457 I don't want her to feel  like I'm violating her. 206 00:09:01,499 --> 00:09:03,209 Mm-hm. 207 00:09:03,251 --> 00:09:06,045 Can I ask you, what  do you mean by that? 208 00:09:09,632 --> 00:09:13,010 I               was abused as a kid. 209 00:09:13,052 --> 00:09:15,096 There's a  particular incident? 210 00:09:15,137 --> 00:09:17,431 Yes, my uncle. 211 00:09:17,473 --> 00:09:18,641 Mm-hm. 212 00:09:18,683 --> 00:09:21,143 And the first time it            happened, that morning, 213 00:09:21,185 --> 00:09:24,564 I literally woke up with my    uncle's hands in my pants and I 214 00:09:24,605 --> 00:09:26,107 was like, "What                  is that feeling?" 215 00:09:26,148 --> 00:09:27,733 Mm-hm. 216 00:09:27,775 --> 00:09:32,280 And I remember walking... 217 00:09:32,321 --> 00:09:34,282 to the bedroom that                my parents were in, 218 00:09:34,323 --> 00:09:36,701 and it was-- I               clearly envision it. 219 00:09:36,742 --> 00:09:40,746 It was sunny, the kitchen         was flooded with sunlight, 220 00:09:40,788 --> 00:09:43,499 and then I get to the bedroom,     and I'm at the door and I hear 221 00:09:43,541 --> 00:09:46,544 them snoring, but I don't  remember what happened from that 222 00:09:46,586 --> 00:09:51,132 point of me trying-- I don't  know if I tried to wake them up, 223 00:09:51,173 --> 00:09:53,342 I don't know if               they shooed me away, 224 00:09:53,384 --> 00:09:54,927 I don't know. 225 00:09:54,969 --> 00:09:58,389 All I know is I ended up walking  back and I got back into bed... 226 00:09:58,431 --> 00:10:01,726 with my uncle                      instead of... 227 00:10:01,767 --> 00:10:02,935 instead of going-- 228 00:10:02,977 --> 00:10:04,437 Instead of getting  the protection-- 229 00:10:04,478 --> 00:10:05,354 Getting away, yeah. 230 00:10:05,396 --> 00:10:06,939 The protection you needed. 231 00:10:06,981 --> 00:10:08,441 Yeah. 232 00:10:08,482 --> 00:10:12,778 And what  about your parents? 233 00:10:12,820 --> 00:10:17,033 My parents didn't                  see any signs... 234 00:10:17,074 --> 00:10:18,951 of me being molested. 235 00:10:18,993 --> 00:10:20,786 Mm-hm. 236 00:10:20,828 --> 00:10:25,625 But then, as I got older,          I know my mom asked me... 237 00:10:25,666 --> 00:10:26,626 Mm-hm. 238 00:10:26,667 --> 00:10:30,671 But I never told               her it was my uncle. 239 00:10:30,713 --> 00:10:33,674 But if she has an inkling that     someone may have touched me, 240 00:10:33,716 --> 00:10:37,303 then why not explore that more? 241 00:10:37,345 --> 00:10:39,639 But I feel like                  she did not know. 242 00:10:39,680 --> 00:10:42,642 So you're saying there's kind  of a knowing and not knowing. 243 00:10:42,683 --> 00:10:43,809 Yeah. 244 00:10:43,851 --> 00:10:44,977 Like a half-knowing. 245 00:10:45,019 --> 00:10:47,438 There was no     exploration of that statement. 246 00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:48,606 Mm-hm. 247 00:10:48,648 --> 00:10:50,858 And then it             was, like, left alone. 248 00:10:50,900 --> 00:10:53,194 Part of me was always             pissed off about that. 249 00:10:53,235 --> 00:10:54,487 Sure. 250 00:10:54,528 --> 00:10:56,489 And I think from there,           that's where all of the, 251 00:10:56,530 --> 00:10:59,325 you know, "If you truly love me,  I'm just gonna just talk shit to 252 00:10:59,367 --> 00:11:00,993 you all the time." 253 00:11:01,035 --> 00:11:04,455 And I think that's why I     talk to you like that when I'm 254 00:11:04,497 --> 00:11:05,206 pissed off. 255 00:11:05,247 --> 00:11:08,417 But I think what you're saying  right now is that part of the 256 00:11:08,459 --> 00:11:11,295 pissed-off is that  something's wrong. 257 00:11:11,337 --> 00:11:14,006 Yeah, and                  it kind of just-- 258 00:11:14,048 --> 00:11:16,008 And what  feels wrong right now? 259 00:11:23,516 --> 00:11:25,017 I don't know. 260 00:11:25,059 --> 00:11:27,645 I feel like the                    wrong is in me. 261 00:11:27,687 --> 00:11:30,815 It has              nothing to do with... 262 00:11:30,856 --> 00:11:34,860 I gotta fi-- I don't         know, I just gotta fix me. 263 00:11:38,072 --> 00:11:43,119 pensive             ambient music 264 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:57,341 I have a case that I      wanted to bring to the group. 265 00:11:57,383 --> 00:11:59,885 So with Cyn and Yaya, 266 00:11:59,927 --> 00:12:02,638 there are two things            that I thought I'd love 267 00:12:02,680 --> 00:12:05,891 your reactions to,             thoughts on with them. 268 00:12:05,933 --> 00:12:08,853 Their presenting           problem is that Cyn lost 269 00:12:08,894 --> 00:12:11,480 her sexual  interest in Yaya. 270 00:12:11,522 --> 00:12:15,151 And most of the time,       Yaya seems oddly unaffected. 271 00:12:15,192 --> 00:12:18,904 I'm thinking to myself,    like, "Why is she not alarmed?" 272 00:12:18,946 --> 00:12:23,743 And then Cyn disclosed that she  had a history of sexual abuse, 273 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:27,163 and when we think about, like,     childhood trauma and how it 274 00:12:27,204 --> 00:12:32,334 manifests later in life,  there's this classic triangle of 275 00:12:32,376 --> 00:12:37,173 perpetrator,             victim, and bystander. 276 00:12:37,214 --> 00:12:39,592 Like, the bystander who           does nothing to protect. 277 00:12:39,633 --> 00:12:41,302 Mm-hm. 278 00:12:41,343 --> 00:12:43,554 So the           mother is the bystander. 279 00:12:43,596 --> 00:12:45,097 Mm-hm. 280 00:12:45,139 --> 00:12:49,685 So maybe there's some way in     which Yaya's becoming maternal 281 00:12:50,644 --> 00:12:53,314 condenses her with                the maternal image, 282 00:12:53,355 --> 00:12:58,402 and that may have something to  do also with her lack of libido. 283 00:12:59,069 --> 00:13:02,865 This is why you find a partner     who triggers these dynamics, 284 00:13:02,907 --> 00:13:05,785 so that you can participate in     these re-enactments at least 285 00:13:05,826 --> 00:13:07,953 with the hope of                   resolving them, 286 00:13:07,995 --> 00:13:09,747 so it's like               Cyn maybe is back in 287 00:13:09,789 --> 00:13:11,499 the same position with             someone where she's, 288 00:13:11,540 --> 00:13:13,125 like, desperately                  screaming, like, 289 00:13:13,167 --> 00:13:15,753 "Wake up and hear this." 290 00:13:15,795 --> 00:13:19,840 mellow electronic music 291 00:13:20,257 --> 00:13:22,551 Moving                  to Dale and India, 292 00:13:22,593 --> 00:13:26,222 the problem that they came in       with was this kind of classic 293 00:13:26,263 --> 00:13:31,310 couple's dynamic of one person  feeling like they're designated 294 00:13:31,644 --> 00:13:33,979 like the angry one. 295 00:13:34,021 --> 00:13:39,068 So I wanted to, like, talk     about how anger is packaged... 296 00:13:40,361 --> 00:13:44,824 by categories like              gender, or like race. 297 00:13:44,865 --> 00:13:46,116 Yeah. 298 00:13:46,158 --> 00:13:47,368 Well, there's  also respectability politics 299 00:13:47,409 --> 00:13:48,661 in operation. 300 00:13:48,702 --> 00:13:50,830 So in the Black  community, southern Black women, 301 00:13:50,871 --> 00:13:53,290 you are supposed                   to be, you know, 302 00:13:53,332 --> 00:13:55,501 this virtuous sort of... 303 00:13:56,418 --> 00:13:57,461 Well-put-together. 304 00:13:57,503 --> 00:13:59,839 Right, and that is             to be expected of you. 305 00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:02,132 You're supposed to keep your        business to yourself and not 306 00:14:02,174 --> 00:14:05,010 show rage. 307 00:14:09,181 --> 00:14:11,225 From the very  beginning of our relationship, 308 00:14:11,267 --> 00:14:13,936 I was under a lot of pressure. 309 00:14:13,978 --> 00:14:16,814 He was coming out of  a marriage before, 310 00:14:16,856 --> 00:14:19,358 um, so  immediately, I'm thinking, 311 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:22,862 "Oh, great, now I have to  measure up to this woman or make 312 00:14:22,903 --> 00:14:25,990 him feel comfortable again,"       because he had his guard up. 313 00:14:26,031 --> 00:14:26,866 And, uh-- 314 00:14:26,907 --> 00:14:28,367 What  kind of guard? 315 00:14:28,409 --> 00:14:31,704 You know, he had this timeline  of these steps that he had to 316 00:14:31,745 --> 00:14:34,039 take before he got very  serious with someone, 317 00:14:34,081 --> 00:14:37,042 so, you know, I felt like I was  kind of walking on eggshells a 318 00:14:37,084 --> 00:14:37,877 little bit with that. 319 00:14:37,918 --> 00:14:39,336 Mm-hm. 320 00:14:39,378 --> 00:14:42,882 And then, we had a conversation  and he said flat-out that, 321 00:14:42,923 --> 00:14:46,051 you know, "I almost gave  up on dating Black women." 322 00:14:46,093 --> 00:14:48,012 So there's a little  bit of judgment there; 323 00:14:48,053 --> 00:14:51,056 he feels a type of way. 324 00:14:51,098 --> 00:14:54,226 A judgment  that Black women are...? 325 00:14:54,268 --> 00:14:56,353 Hard to deal with, 326 00:14:56,395 --> 00:14:59,899 and he just doesn't want to  argue all the time, so, um-- 327 00:14:59,940 --> 00:15:01,400 But a  generalization that 328 00:15:01,442 --> 00:15:03,444 Black women  would argue more. 329 00:15:03,485 --> 00:15:04,278 Yes. 330 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:05,195 Mm-hm. 331 00:15:05,237 --> 00:15:06,071 So-- 332 00:15:06,113 --> 00:15:07,031 What are you thinking? 333 00:15:07,072 --> 00:15:09,033 Well, I mean, at first, 334 00:15:09,074 --> 00:15:10,492 I'm so sorry 335 00:15:10,534 --> 00:15:12,703 that she felt that way. 336 00:15:12,745 --> 00:15:15,831 But here's the thing:  every time there's an issue, 337 00:15:15,873 --> 00:15:19,043 she comes to me  with guns blazing. 338 00:15:19,084 --> 00:15:22,004 It's never, you know,      "Okay, let's talk about this. 339 00:15:22,046 --> 00:15:23,422 Or let's discuss this. 340 00:15:23,464 --> 00:15:24,465 I have a problem." 341 00:15:24,506 --> 00:15:25,257 Is that true? 342 00:15:25,299 --> 00:15:26,717 I never come  guns blazing. 343 00:15:28,218 --> 00:15:30,054 I come and, like, we have a  conversation and it escalates 344 00:15:30,095 --> 00:15:33,265 when I feel like I'm not  being understood or if I'm being 345 00:15:33,307 --> 00:15:35,893 dismissed or if I'm  not being heard at all, 346 00:15:35,935 --> 00:15:37,102 and then  it escalates. 347 00:15:37,144 --> 00:15:40,272 I mean, I'm not             saying-- I think we... 348 00:15:40,314 --> 00:15:43,692 I think we have        different tolerance levels, 349 00:15:43,734 --> 00:15:45,945 and I think when                India has a plight, 350 00:15:45,986 --> 00:15:47,905 it's very quick                 for her to get to, 351 00:15:47,947 --> 00:15:49,073 okay, now it's explosive. 352 00:15:49,114 --> 00:15:50,699 Mm-hm. 353 00:15:50,741 --> 00:15:52,451 But I don't like the  way you make me feel. 354 00:15:52,493 --> 00:15:54,453 You make me feel  angry, aggressive, 355 00:15:54,495 --> 00:15:56,121 and like the villain-- 356 00:15:56,163 --> 00:15:57,039 Like a villain. 357 00:15:57,081 --> 00:15:57,957 When I was the  one-- in my mind, 358 00:15:57,998 --> 00:15:58,582 was the victim. 359 00:15:58,624 --> 00:15:59,917 Yeah. 360 00:15:59,959 --> 00:16:01,460 You know, just trying to  communicate to you what my 361 00:16:01,502 --> 00:16:03,045 problem is. 362 00:16:03,087 --> 00:16:04,046 Okay, but-- 363 00:16:04,088 --> 00:16:05,089 Hold on, hold on. 364 00:16:05,130 --> 00:16:06,507 Okay. 365 00:16:06,548 --> 00:16:08,092 I'm getting a flavor of  what the two of you are talking 366 00:16:08,133 --> 00:16:10,469 about, and I think  that we can agree 367 00:16:10,511 --> 00:16:13,472 that you each hurt each            other with your words. 368 00:16:13,514 --> 00:16:14,473 Yeah. 369 00:16:14,515 --> 00:16:15,683 Yes. 370 00:16:15,724 --> 00:16:17,309 So I guess the                first question then 371 00:16:17,351 --> 00:16:18,936 is how do  the two of you 372 00:16:18,978 --> 00:16:23,357 create a space where you can  say what you need to say to each 373 00:16:23,399 --> 00:16:27,111 other that feels still... 374 00:16:27,152 --> 00:16:27,778 productive? 375 00:16:27,820 --> 00:16:28,737 -Yes.                              -Yes. 376 00:16:28,779 --> 00:16:29,738 For the two of you. 377 00:16:29,780 --> 00:16:30,906 -Yes.                              -Yes. 378 00:16:30,948 --> 00:16:32,741 I'm happy to be a part             of that conversation, 379 00:16:32,783 --> 00:16:36,996 but I feel like he tries to  put me in a box of being overly 380 00:16:37,037 --> 00:16:41,000 traumatized  or overly insecure 381 00:16:41,041 --> 00:16:42,501 or too emotional. 382 00:16:42,543 --> 00:16:43,836 Mm-hm. 383 00:16:43,877 --> 00:16:47,339 And I'm not saying that I  don't get upset and angry, 384 00:16:47,381 --> 00:16:50,009 but he's very uncomfortable        with confrontation. 385 00:16:50,050 --> 00:16:52,511 Yeah. 386 00:16:52,553 --> 00:16:56,515 And I feel like, okay, that's  something to decode with him. 387 00:16:56,557 --> 00:16:59,977 I don't want to feel like  I'm the only person here who's 388 00:17:00,019 --> 00:17:01,520 broken and who needs to  be fixed when in fact, 389 00:17:01,562 --> 00:17:04,732 I don't think I'm  broken at all, actually. 390 00:17:04,773 --> 00:17:07,192 Maybe he is  the broken one. 391 00:17:07,234 --> 00:17:08,986 Well, we're               probably all broken. 392 00:17:09,028 --> 00:17:09,820 I mean-- 393 00:17:09,862 --> 00:17:11,780 -Yeah.  -In some form. 394 00:17:11,822 --> 00:17:14,158 I understand the          tension and the conflict, 395 00:17:14,199 --> 00:17:16,785 but be aware of how            you talk to each other, 396 00:17:16,827 --> 00:17:21,123 because these are ways to not      have to listen to each other. 397 00:17:21,165 --> 00:17:22,207 Yeah. 398 00:17:22,249 --> 00:17:24,543 Yeah. 399 00:17:24,585 --> 00:17:26,587 Okay. 400 00:17:26,628 --> 00:17:29,840 upbeat Latin music 401 00:18:01,163 --> 00:18:03,749 What the fuck is this? 402 00:18:03,791 --> 00:18:07,044 If you went both times,         it's totally unacceptable. 403 00:18:21,934 --> 00:18:24,061 We actually  met here in the city. 404 00:18:24,103 --> 00:18:26,647 This is right after 9/11. 405 00:18:26,688 --> 00:18:29,233 We both got hired at  the same company and, 406 00:18:29,274 --> 00:18:32,194 you know, the first                moment I saw her, 407 00:18:32,236 --> 00:18:36,657 I was, like, very into her. 408 00:18:36,698 --> 00:18:39,827 And, um, I asked               her out a few times. 409 00:18:39,868 --> 00:18:42,079 I asked her out I think      within those first two weeks. 410 00:18:42,121 --> 00:18:43,247 We were putting        chairs away and I was like, 411 00:18:43,288 --> 00:18:44,206 "Do you wanna go                  get some coffee?" 412 00:18:44,248 --> 00:18:45,707 And she...did not. 413 00:18:46,583 --> 00:18:47,126 She turned me down. 414 00:18:47,126 --> 00:18:49,962 And then, we were                at a holiday party. 415 00:18:50,003 --> 00:18:52,631 We ended up-- you know, there      was wine at the party and she 416 00:18:52,673 --> 00:18:54,967 was a little bit more... 417 00:18:55,008 --> 00:18:55,968 talkative with me. 418 00:18:56,927 --> 00:18:58,220 'Cause we were flirting! 419 00:18:58,262 --> 00:18:58,887 And then we were--  yeah, then we were, like, 420 00:18:58,929 --> 00:18:59,888 flirting with each other. 421 00:18:59,930 --> 00:19:04,226 And then, next  thing you know, it's, like... 422 00:19:04,268 --> 00:19:08,272 four in the morning, we're  at a deli eating and just-- 423 00:19:08,313 --> 00:19:09,273 that was it. 424 00:19:09,314 --> 00:19:11,400 What did you  see in each other? 425 00:19:11,441 --> 00:19:15,487 You know, she's like-- she     has this light and energy and, 426 00:19:15,529 --> 00:19:20,325 like, she also is,                like, really fiery. 427 00:19:20,367 --> 00:19:22,494 That was sort  of my...thought. 428 00:19:22,536 --> 00:19:24,246 And for you? 429 00:19:24,288 --> 00:19:29,334 Josh was like the first  person who I felt really saw me 430 00:19:29,585 --> 00:19:33,213 and understood me, and... 431 00:19:33,547 --> 00:19:38,343 he was just so -- and still  is -- but so kind and so gentle 432 00:19:38,385 --> 00:19:40,929 and so calm. 433 00:19:40,971 --> 00:19:44,349 Like, he was the                 opposite of chaos. 434 00:19:44,391 --> 00:19:47,269 It felt calm. 435 00:19:47,311 --> 00:19:49,521 Yeah. 436 00:19:51,523 --> 00:19:54,526 And I felt, like, energized. 437 00:19:54,568 --> 00:19:56,862 Mm-hm. 438 00:19:57,070 --> 00:20:00,782 I felt like, "Oh,                  I'm, like, alive. 439 00:20:00,824 --> 00:20:03,368 This is--                 life is happening. 440 00:20:03,410 --> 00:20:04,369 Mm-hm. 441 00:20:04,411 --> 00:20:06,622 But that  feels so far away. 442 00:20:06,663 --> 00:20:10,375 Like, that was a lovely story,     but there's a lot of shit from 443 00:20:10,417 --> 00:20:14,171 there to here,                 and a lot of pain. 444 00:20:14,213 --> 00:20:16,256 Say more. 445 00:20:18,383 --> 00:20:23,180 You know, before we had  my first-- our first child, 446 00:20:23,222 --> 00:20:27,392 I had, like, a bunch  of miscarriages and... 447 00:20:32,648 --> 00:20:37,402 I think for me, that's  kind of where I got... 448 00:20:37,444 --> 00:20:40,280 broke down. 449 00:20:40,530 --> 00:20:43,575 How did it go  between the two of you? 450 00:20:43,617 --> 00:20:46,245 The miscarriage experience. 451 00:20:47,621 --> 00:20:50,457 For me,              I felt very helpless. 452 00:20:50,499 --> 00:20:53,252 And, uh... 453 00:20:53,502 --> 00:20:58,674 it was-- the feelings that she  was having were unattainable for 454 00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:02,094 m-- like, I couldn't  share in her suffering. 455 00:21:02,135 --> 00:21:04,596 And I can't believe... 456 00:21:04,638 --> 00:21:09,393 that I wasn't there  for her in that time. 457 00:21:09,434 --> 00:21:10,686 Or where was I? 458 00:21:10,727 --> 00:21:12,104 "Where was I?" 459 00:21:12,145 --> 00:21:13,105 maybe is a              better way to say it. 460 00:21:13,146 --> 00:21:14,439 Where was I then? 461 00:21:14,481 --> 00:21:18,235 You couldn't  experience sort of 462 00:21:18,277 --> 00:21:21,113 the level of                loss that Molly was 463 00:21:21,154 --> 00:21:23,282 experiencing,                so you were kind of 464 00:21:23,323 --> 00:21:25,909 left behind... 465 00:21:25,951 --> 00:21:28,912 and you were left alone. 466 00:21:28,954 --> 00:21:31,456 Yeah. 467 00:21:33,083 --> 00:21:36,295 And then, when I got     pregnant with our third child, 468 00:21:36,336 --> 00:21:38,922 Josh met someone              and they became very, 469 00:21:38,964 --> 00:21:43,635 very close, and it came out that  he was having an inappropriate 470 00:21:43,677 --> 00:21:47,639 relationship with  her, and I was pregnant. 471 00:21:47,681 --> 00:21:50,142 That felt like  the rug had been pulled out from 472 00:21:50,183 --> 00:21:52,144 underneath me. 473 00:21:52,185 --> 00:21:54,855 Half of me was like, "I'm  not gonna have this baby to 474 00:21:54,896 --> 00:21:56,523 spite you." 475 00:21:56,565 --> 00:21:59,484 The other half of me was  like, "I have to save my family. 476 00:21:59,526 --> 00:22:03,488 I can't bring in another child  because there's all this chaos 477 00:22:03,530 --> 00:22:06,033 going on and this is            the right thing to do." 478 00:22:08,410 --> 00:22:13,498 And then it it was extreme--  I did it at home with a pill. 479 00:22:13,540 --> 00:22:15,667 It was very painful. 480 00:22:15,709 --> 00:22:18,337 And then, the  doctor gave me Percocet, 481 00:22:18,378 --> 00:22:20,672 and then I got  addicted to Percocet! 482 00:22:20,714 --> 00:22:22,758 Mm-hm. 483 00:22:22,799 --> 00:22:24,968 And I... 484 00:22:25,010 --> 00:22:29,181 crashed my car in a tree a      block away from our house. 485 00:22:29,222 --> 00:22:34,227 Like, it was just a  terrible, terrible time. 486 00:22:35,729 --> 00:22:37,981 It just feels,  like, so fucked up, 487 00:22:38,023 --> 00:22:39,316 I don't know. 488 00:22:39,358 --> 00:22:41,568 And, like, we haven't really  talked about it like this. 489 00:22:41,610 --> 00:22:44,571 We have not really  talked about it. 490 00:22:44,863 --> 00:22:47,449 Let's. 491 00:22:53,205 --> 00:22:55,540 Well... 492 00:22:55,582 --> 00:22:57,167 I was so angry-- 493 00:22:57,209 --> 00:22:58,210 Yeah. 494 00:22:58,251 --> 00:23:02,339 At Josh because I  then had to go through 495 00:23:02,381 --> 00:23:05,384 losing a child again... 496 00:23:09,554 --> 00:23:13,558 which was  devastating and still is. 497 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:15,644 And I feel so, like... 498 00:23:17,604 --> 00:23:18,814 dead. 499 00:23:18,855 --> 00:23:21,400 Yeah. 500 00:23:29,574 --> 00:23:32,577 First of all,  Josh, where are you? 501 00:23:32,619 --> 00:23:34,579 Um... 502 00:23:34,621 --> 00:23:39,626 I can't even believe that         that happened in our life. 503 00:23:40,419 --> 00:23:42,379 Like,                         I can't... 504 00:23:42,421 --> 00:23:44,047 I can't         believe it happened. 505 00:23:44,089 --> 00:23:45,257 Mm-hm. 506 00:23:45,298 --> 00:23:47,968 Choices that I made... 507 00:23:48,009 --> 00:23:51,805 daily for a least                  a little while... 508 00:23:51,847 --> 00:23:56,893 you know, directly led to a        decision that we made to... 509 00:23:57,936 --> 00:24:00,605 not have a k-- you                 know, this child. 510 00:24:00,647 --> 00:24:04,401 Like, I just can't-- I cannot--  I can't wrap my brain around the 511 00:24:04,443 --> 00:24:05,944 fact that that                 actually happened. 512 00:24:05,986 --> 00:24:07,446 Can I just understand... 513 00:24:07,487 --> 00:24:10,740 The choice that  created the outcome is 514 00:24:10,782 --> 00:24:14,619 the relationship is  the cause of the abortion? 515 00:24:14,661 --> 00:24:15,745 Yeah. 516 00:24:15,787 --> 00:24:18,415 That's how it lives  between the two of you? 517 00:24:18,457 --> 00:24:20,625 Yeah. 518 00:24:23,003 --> 00:24:25,630 And then, I was, like,  crying out for help, 519 00:24:25,672 --> 00:24:26,631 you know what I mean? 520 00:24:26,673 --> 00:24:28,091 With the... 521 00:24:28,133 --> 00:24:31,511 Percocet and... 522 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:38,310 then seeking someone who  would hold fucking space for me 523 00:24:38,351 --> 00:24:41,646 outside of our marriage but  knowing that that wasn't right 524 00:24:41,688 --> 00:24:46,735 but I just wanted someone  to hold some space for me! 525 00:24:52,532 --> 00:24:54,493 I mean,  this is the thing, 526 00:24:54,534 --> 00:24:57,329 it's like                       how do we... 527 00:24:57,996 --> 00:25:00,832 how do we carry all      this forward with us, like... 528 00:25:00,874 --> 00:25:03,585 whether we have to carry it or  whether we can leave it behind, 529 00:25:03,627 --> 00:25:05,212 or what-- how do                   we-- what do...? 530 00:25:05,253 --> 00:25:06,087 That's how I feel. 531 00:25:06,129 --> 00:25:07,797 I'm like, "What... 532 00:25:07,839 --> 00:25:10,592 what do we do with              this stuff that we--" 533 00:25:10,634 --> 00:25:13,428 In a way, at least part of  what the two of you seem to be 534 00:25:13,470 --> 00:25:15,263 telling me... 535 00:25:15,305 --> 00:25:18,225 with all these words,  like "dead inside," 536 00:25:18,266 --> 00:25:19,267 "Can we carry it? 537 00:25:19,309 --> 00:25:22,103 Do we leave it behind?" 538 00:25:22,145 --> 00:25:25,106 I think there's part of it  that has to do really with, 539 00:25:25,148 --> 00:25:27,275 like, the  processing of all these, 540 00:25:27,317 --> 00:25:30,028 like, unborn... 541 00:25:30,070 --> 00:25:32,197 babies. 542 00:25:33,573 --> 00:25:35,534 Miscarried, aborted. 543 00:25:35,575 --> 00:25:37,327 Where does it  live inside you? 544 00:25:37,369 --> 00:25:38,703 Between you? 545 00:25:38,745 --> 00:25:41,706 A future that  didn't happen, a past... 546 00:25:44,751 --> 00:25:45,752 Yeah. 547 00:25:48,713 --> 00:25:52,759 funky instrumental music 548 00:26:00,809 --> 00:26:01,643 Thank you. 549 00:26:01,685 --> 00:26:02,519 See you soon. 550 00:26:02,561 --> 00:26:04,563 See you soon. 551 00:26:17,325 --> 00:26:22,372 cool funky music 45568

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