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♪suspenseful
piano♪
2
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I'm, like, getting
waves of nausea
3
00:00:12,553 --> 00:00:14,762
and feeling super tired,
4
00:00:14,762 --> 00:00:15,970
super hungry.
5
00:00:16,220 --> 00:00:18,804
I will be shocked
if I'm not pregnant.
6
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I get myself pregnant...
7
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by a guy who...
8
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used to wake me up with
a punch in the face.
9
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You know, you went
through it, you lived-
10
00:00:27,679 --> 00:00:29,053
keep it movin'.
11
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Who wrote the poem you
sent me this morning?
12
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I wrote it, you
fruit loop-
13
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[laughs]
14
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while walking
the dog.
15
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And I liked it.
16
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[kiss]
17
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-Thank you.
-Accuse me of plagiarism.
18
00:00:53,053 --> 00:00:54,720
[laughs]
19
00:00:56,178 --> 00:00:58,970
We bend over
backwards to...
20
00:00:58,970 --> 00:01:01,845
give the other person
what we think they want.
21
00:01:01,845 --> 00:01:03,095
[Orna]
Mm-hm.
22
00:01:03,095 --> 00:01:05,387
[Annie] You know, we-
we don't feel compatible.
23
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We don't wanna do
the same things.
24
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When we have shared
interests, it's from effort.
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If we remove that...
26
00:01:15,970 --> 00:01:17,720
I don't know
what we have.
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00:01:19,053 --> 00:01:20,970
You know knowing
what we know now,
28
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if we were gonna
get married...
29
00:01:22,261 --> 00:01:23,762
tomorrow, he wouldn't.
30
00:01:24,887 --> 00:01:26,553
I mean, you'd be
an idiot to.
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I wouldn't.
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♪airy
music♪
33
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Tell me about your
fears of incompatibility.
34
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Seems...obvious.
35
00:01:49,428 --> 00:01:51,178
Th- I mean, when
I met you,
36
00:01:51,178 --> 00:01:52,804
I was like, "This is
a terrible mistake."
37
00:01:53,136 --> 00:01:55,470
I mean, this is a
mistake.
38
00:01:55,470 --> 00:01:56,762
It looks like a mistake.
39
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And that's one mistake
I'm about to make.
40
00:01:58,553 --> 00:02:01,136
And I'm going into it
eyes wide open."
41
00:02:01,136 --> 00:02:03,220
-Okay.
-But now, where you are now-
42
00:02:03,220 --> 00:02:04,887
-Mm-hm.
-In your...
43
00:02:05,303 --> 00:02:06,595
-I feel the same way.
-long relationship.
44
00:02:06,595 --> 00:02:09,470
The only - I think that
what's changed
45
00:02:09,470 --> 00:02:10,887
is that...
46
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I think I thought
47
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that my sacrifice
48
00:02:16,845 --> 00:02:18,261
in my mind
49
00:02:18,261 --> 00:02:21,804
was going to yield
this result over here.
50
00:02:22,053 --> 00:02:24,011
And that was- that
was worth doing.
51
00:02:24,011 --> 00:02:25,970
All the sacrifices
were worth it.
52
00:02:26,303 --> 00:02:31,011
Um, and I th- and now,
it feels more like...
53
00:02:31,011 --> 00:02:33,011
I actually was in your way.
54
00:02:33,011 --> 00:02:35,011
I was stopping you from...
55
00:02:35,011 --> 00:02:37,428
realizing yourself in
a way that...
56
00:02:37,428 --> 00:02:39,095
would've been m-
57
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better for you.
58
00:02:39,887 --> 00:02:40,845
You would've been
59
00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:43,970
happier.
60
00:02:43,970 --> 00:02:44,845
I think you would've
been, you know-
61
00:02:44,845 --> 00:02:46,011
[Orna]
For example?
62
00:02:46,011 --> 00:02:49,220
Like, how- what- how would
Annie live differently?
63
00:02:49,804 --> 00:02:51,011
[Mau]
I feel she's...
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00:02:51,011 --> 00:02:52,845
always wanting to
believe in me,
65
00:02:52,845 --> 00:02:54,428
but the things I say
66
00:02:54,428 --> 00:02:56,595
sound just a little
bit too much.
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00:02:56,845 --> 00:02:58,804
I don't know that I would
accept someone else
68
00:02:58,804 --> 00:03:01,011
saying even what I say.
69
00:03:01,011 --> 00:03:02,720
I accept it 'cause
I'm saying it...
70
00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:04,512
and my expectation...
71
00:03:04,512 --> 00:03:07,345
is that she needs to
accept it because
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00:03:07,345 --> 00:03:08,303
I'm saying it,
73
00:03:08,303 --> 00:03:11,512
and any trespass
on that,
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I view as, like,
a betrayal.
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00:03:13,595 --> 00:03:15,679
You said you- it's very-
when you feel challenged,
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00:03:15,679 --> 00:03:16,929
you feel like that's
when you-
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00:03:16,929 --> 00:03:17,804
[Mau]
Yeah.
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00:03:18,136 --> 00:03:20,053
-R- react.
-[Mau] Mmm.
79
00:03:20,053 --> 00:03:21,053
But I- I don't know,
in my mind,
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00:03:21,053 --> 00:03:23,095
it sounds like
in one way...
81
00:03:23,095 --> 00:03:24,929
Mau, you're describing
how you live,
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00:03:24,929 --> 00:03:27,011
I guess, based on your...
83
00:03:27,512 --> 00:03:28,470
-background, your-
-[Mau] Mm-hm.
84
00:03:28,470 --> 00:03:30,929
history, the history
that you described.
85
00:03:30,929 --> 00:03:32,178
What are you doing?
86
00:03:32,178 --> 00:03:33,845
Just walking around.
87
00:03:34,553 --> 00:03:35,220
Yes.
88
00:03:36,887 --> 00:03:37,762
-Okay.
-And- and the
89
00:03:37,762 --> 00:03:39,136
question of your,
90
00:03:39,136 --> 00:03:40,553
I guess, what you're
calling your...
91
00:03:41,512 --> 00:03:43,720
sensitivity to being
challenged.
92
00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:44,345
[Mau]
Mm-hm.
93
00:03:45,095 --> 00:03:46,929
[Orna]
Just that you have
94
00:03:46,929 --> 00:03:48,595
your way of thinking
about things,
95
00:03:48,595 --> 00:03:51,178
and it's just very
difficult for you...
96
00:03:51,178 --> 00:03:52,261
to move from that.
97
00:03:53,261 --> 00:03:55,387
[Annie] He's an
impossible...
98
00:03:55,387 --> 00:03:56,929
ship to steer,
99
00:03:56,929 --> 00:03:58,762
and I understand that's
not my job.
100
00:03:58,762 --> 00:03:59,595
Mm-hm.
101
00:03:59,845 --> 00:04:01,136
[Annie] I'm exhausted
by like,
102
00:04:01,136 --> 00:04:02,553
running to keep up...
103
00:04:02,845 --> 00:04:07,261
you know, that I can't...
just have it be a simple,
104
00:04:07,261 --> 00:04:08,136
"Can you just turn
the car around?
105
00:04:08,136 --> 00:04:09,303
We're two blocks
from home.
106
00:04:09,303 --> 00:04:10,970
I just realized I forgot
my sunglasses."
107
00:04:10,970 --> 00:04:12,011
You know?
108
00:04:12,011 --> 00:04:13,261
Like no,
109
00:04:13,261 --> 00:04:14,220
I can't.
110
00:04:14,220 --> 00:04:15,428
I also can never be
the driver,
111
00:04:15,428 --> 00:04:16,303
so...
112
00:04:16,303 --> 00:04:17,929
that's never up to
me either.
113
00:04:17,929 --> 00:04:19,762
If we are
together...
114
00:04:19,762 --> 00:04:22,637
I am on his...ride.
115
00:04:22,637 --> 00:04:23,595
If we are together-
116
00:04:23,595 --> 00:04:24,637
[Orna] That's what
you're exhausted by?
117
00:04:24,637 --> 00:04:25,804
-Yes.
-[Orna] By the fact that
118
00:04:25,804 --> 00:04:26,970
it's very hard to
influence Mau
119
00:04:26,970 --> 00:04:28,470
-When he goes on-
-Yes.
120
00:04:28,470 --> 00:04:29,553
-Oh my gosh, yes.
-[Orna] Okay.
121
00:04:29,553 --> 00:04:30,470
That's it exactly.
122
00:04:30,470 --> 00:04:31,553
-[Orna] Okay.
-Because it's not just
123
00:04:31,553 --> 00:04:32,887
-that stuff.
-[Orna] The- the difficulty
124
00:04:32,887 --> 00:04:34,178
influencing Mau.
125
00:04:34,178 --> 00:04:35,428
-Period.
-[Orna] I- I get it.
126
00:04:36,136 --> 00:04:37,970
Well, first of all, what
do you think about
127
00:04:37,970 --> 00:04:39,178
this way of summarizing
things,
128
00:04:39,178 --> 00:04:41,011
what's exhausting
Annie at least,
129
00:04:41,011 --> 00:04:42,345
that your- that your...
130
00:04:42,345 --> 00:04:43,178
f- fixity,
131
00:04:43,178 --> 00:04:45,470
or your rigidity is...
132
00:04:45,470 --> 00:04:46,929
maddening to her?
133
00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:49,929
Uh...
134
00:04:51,261 --> 00:04:53,261
I think it's maddening
to her, yeah.
135
00:04:53,637 --> 00:04:54,428
Mm-hm.
136
00:04:55,011 --> 00:04:56,804
She has a- a fairly...
137
00:04:57,512 --> 00:04:59,595
narrow perspective when
it comes to that...
138
00:04:59,970 --> 00:05:01,136
-that's-
-[Orna] Narrow perspective
139
00:05:01,136 --> 00:05:03,679
meaning she's not taking
into account other things?
140
00:05:03,679 --> 00:05:04,387
Yeah.
141
00:05:05,345 --> 00:05:06,261
-So, you're saying-
-[Annie] It- That's-
142
00:05:06,261 --> 00:05:07,804
[Mau] Your choices
in life are this.
143
00:05:07,804 --> 00:05:09,053
I mean, a- as-
144
00:05:09,053 --> 00:05:11,053
Please don't- don't make
a giant summary right now,
145
00:05:11,053 --> 00:05:12,011
-Please.
-Okay,
146
00:05:12,011 --> 00:05:13,303
no giant summaries.
147
00:05:13,303 --> 00:05:15,261
-[Orna] But this-
-She's right, that's correct
148
00:05:15,261 --> 00:05:16,762
and you should
feel that way.
149
00:05:16,762 --> 00:05:18,679
No, it's not that I should
feel this way.
150
00:05:18,679 --> 00:05:20,220
-She does feel that way.
-I shouldn't feel this way.
151
00:05:20,220 --> 00:05:21,136
She shouldn't feel
this way.
152
00:05:21,136 --> 00:05:22,553
I would love to not
feel this way.
153
00:05:22,553 --> 00:05:24,053
I do feel this way.
154
00:05:24,053 --> 00:05:25,178
She does feel that way.
155
00:05:25,845 --> 00:05:27,762
And you don't have
to make it
156
00:05:27,762 --> 00:05:30,845
the story then be in
defense of yourself...
157
00:05:30,845 --> 00:05:32,512
that I have a
narrow view,
158
00:05:32,512 --> 00:05:34,053
or I have a
limitation,
159
00:05:34,053 --> 00:05:35,178
or I have a-
160
00:05:35,178 --> 00:05:36,720
That's exactly what
I'm talking about.
161
00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:37,595
Annie...
162
00:05:38,095 --> 00:05:40,053
we turn the car around,
163
00:05:40,053 --> 00:05:41,553
I take different routes.
164
00:05:41,553 --> 00:05:43,053
We go and don't go.
165
00:05:43,053 --> 00:05:44,011
I swap the thing out.
166
00:05:44,011 --> 00:05:45,345
I change my clothes.
167
00:05:45,345 --> 00:05:47,387
With the thing that
you're describing,
168
00:05:47,387 --> 00:05:48,470
you get.
169
00:05:48,470 --> 00:05:49,970
The thing you
can't get
170
00:05:49,970 --> 00:05:51,387
which is unachievable
171
00:05:51,387 --> 00:05:52,804
is you can't get it
172
00:05:52,804 --> 00:05:54,637
100 percent of the time.
173
00:05:54,637 --> 00:05:56,804
-That's it.
-So, you're saying that...
174
00:05:57,679 --> 00:05:59,512
You don't have
a problem.
175
00:05:59,512 --> 00:06:00,929
You make sense...
176
00:06:00,929 --> 00:06:01,887
with a dentist.
177
00:06:01,887 --> 00:06:02,887
-And I'm-
-[sighs]
178
00:06:02,887 --> 00:06:03,887
Annie, wait, whoa.
179
00:06:03,887 --> 00:06:05,887
I don't mean like an
actual dentist.
180
00:06:05,887 --> 00:06:06,720
I mean...
181
00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:07,720
there is- there's-
182
00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:09,220
you know, there's a...
183
00:06:09,220 --> 00:06:10,929
less challenging
relationship
184
00:06:10,929 --> 00:06:11,929
out there...
185
00:06:11,929 --> 00:06:14,220
that y- you don't have
to fight so hard.
186
00:06:14,220 --> 00:06:15,553
Like you're- you're-
187
00:06:15,553 --> 00:06:17,220
The dudes always
turning around,
188
00:06:17,220 --> 00:06:18,428
and eating chocolate
cake with cinnamon,
189
00:06:18,428 --> 00:06:19,804
and he's never-
190
00:06:19,804 --> 00:06:21,261
he's- they...
191
00:06:21,261 --> 00:06:22,387
I don't know
what he is...
192
00:06:22,387 --> 00:06:23,970
but it's not a
problem...
193
00:06:23,970 --> 00:06:24,595
right?
194
00:06:25,553 --> 00:06:27,720
So, that goes back to
my point of, like,
195
00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:29,053
what's left?
196
00:06:30,762 --> 00:06:34,261
[laughs]
197
00:06:36,595 --> 00:06:40,053
♪emotional
guitar♪
198
00:07:43,595 --> 00:07:44,470
I'm not pregnant.
199
00:07:48,679 --> 00:07:51,136
[Orna] And how are we
feeling about that?
200
00:07:51,136 --> 00:07:52,345
Pretty shitty.
201
00:07:53,220 --> 00:07:54,637
There's a lot going on.
202
00:07:54,970 --> 00:07:57,387
I think we're both,
like, pretty raw...
203
00:07:57,387 --> 00:07:58,136
today.
204
00:08:03,220 --> 00:08:05,345
Yeah, it's been a
hard couple days.
205
00:08:07,512 --> 00:08:10,553
Yeah, it's not all, like,
the pregnancy stuff.
206
00:08:10,553 --> 00:08:11,970
It's, like, the...
207
00:08:12,637 --> 00:08:14,011
news, and the, like,
208
00:08:14,011 --> 00:08:15,178
Trump memo.
209
00:08:15,178 --> 00:08:17,512
Yes, I was thinking
about you two.
210
00:08:20,679 --> 00:08:22,345
I think that's...
211
00:08:23,762 --> 00:08:26,512
really weighing
heavy on both of us.
212
00:08:28,345 --> 00:08:30,220
It's just all these things
like, compounding.
213
00:08:30,220 --> 00:08:31,345
[Orna]
Mm-hm.
214
00:08:31,970 --> 00:08:33,178
Even, like, this...
215
00:08:33,553 --> 00:08:34,970
baby thing is, like...
216
00:08:35,512 --> 00:08:37,303
not anybody's fault.
217
00:08:37,303 --> 00:08:39,220
Like, I chose this life...
218
00:08:39,220 --> 00:08:41,178
but it's so hard...
219
00:08:42,553 --> 00:08:44,887
and I feel like I'm
being punished
220
00:08:44,887 --> 00:08:46,178
all the time.
221
00:08:47,845 --> 00:08:49,387
Like, most of the time...
222
00:08:50,428 --> 00:08:52,929
I really don't let
the news...
223
00:08:52,929 --> 00:08:53,845
into my world.
224
00:08:53,845 --> 00:08:55,428
because this is
what happens,
225
00:08:55,428 --> 00:08:57,553
because I don't
understand like...
226
00:08:57,553 --> 00:08:59,220
what that could look like.
227
00:08:59,220 --> 00:08:59,929
I don't-
228
00:09:00,970 --> 00:09:01,512
-I can't think of it.
-Concretely in terms of
229
00:09:01,512 --> 00:09:02,428
your life, or...
230
00:09:02,428 --> 00:09:03,845
But you do
understand something,
231
00:09:03,845 --> 00:09:06,220
which is that if
you take it in...
232
00:09:06,804 --> 00:09:07,553
it...
233
00:09:08,053 --> 00:09:09,095
poisons you.
234
00:09:09,095 --> 00:09:11,220
It shifts things inside.
235
00:09:11,220 --> 00:09:12,804
Well I think just like
with everything else,
236
00:09:12,804 --> 00:09:14,428
you have to be
quite intentional
237
00:09:14,428 --> 00:09:16,595
about how you're
taking this in.
238
00:09:19,512 --> 00:09:21,845
What about the
pregnancy itself?
239
00:09:23,387 --> 00:09:24,720
I started to get
pretty excited...
240
00:09:28,303 --> 00:09:29,595
and it kinda felt like...
241
00:09:31,428 --> 00:09:33,929
this was the most important
thing to us, so like...
242
00:09:35,762 --> 00:09:36,595
great.
243
00:09:36,595 --> 00:09:37,261
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
-I can take
244
00:09:37,261 --> 00:09:38,679
all the other shit.
245
00:09:43,845 --> 00:09:46,470
We didn't even get to
go take a test.
246
00:09:46,470 --> 00:09:48,136
Like, I had gotten
my period.
247
00:09:48,136 --> 00:09:48,595
[Orna]
Mm-hm.
248
00:09:53,929 --> 00:09:54,804
[Sarah]
It's tricky.
249
00:09:55,887 --> 00:09:57,637
There's part of me that's,
like, a little bit relieved.
250
00:09:57,637 --> 00:10:00,053
Because it's such a
fucking crazy time.
251
00:10:00,053 --> 00:10:00,595
Yeah.
252
00:10:01,553 --> 00:10:02,887
And the other part of
me is, like, devastated.
253
00:10:02,887 --> 00:10:04,929
Not even that
I'm not pregnant...
254
00:10:04,929 --> 00:10:06,804
just devastated that...
255
00:10:09,762 --> 00:10:11,553
our tries are
so limited.
256
00:10:11,553 --> 00:10:12,178
[Orna]
Yeah.
257
00:10:12,512 --> 00:10:13,887
It's like a roll
of the dice,
258
00:10:13,887 --> 00:10:14,387
and now we wait.
259
00:10:14,387 --> 00:10:15,136
And now, we...
260
00:10:15,136 --> 00:10:16,845
do invasive surgery.
261
00:10:16,845 --> 00:10:17,970
And it's just, like...
262
00:10:19,345 --> 00:10:21,261
are you fucking
kidding? Like...
263
00:10:23,345 --> 00:10:24,679
we don't get
to just...
264
00:10:25,053 --> 00:10:27,303
keep trying under the
guise of like,
265
00:10:27,303 --> 00:10:28,637
"We're, like, not
not trying."
266
00:10:28,637 --> 00:10:29,553
-Like, you know what I mean?
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
267
00:10:29,553 --> 00:10:30,762
We don't just-
268
00:10:30,762 --> 00:10:32,553
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
-Get to keep rollin' the dice.
269
00:10:32,553 --> 00:10:33,595
[Orna]
Mm-hm.
270
00:10:33,595 --> 00:10:35,095
There's no dice on
the table right now.
271
00:10:37,345 --> 00:10:39,095
I just feel really...
272
00:10:39,095 --> 00:10:39,845
stupid.
273
00:10:41,011 --> 00:10:42,095
To have tried?
274
00:10:46,553 --> 00:10:47,679
I have thoughts
about that,
275
00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:49,637
but I wanna hear your...
276
00:10:50,595 --> 00:10:52,011
reaction, or...
277
00:10:52,011 --> 00:10:52,845
thoughts.
278
00:10:54,345 --> 00:10:56,679
It's been...hard...
279
00:10:59,178 --> 00:11:01,512
to have deeper
conversations between us
280
00:11:01,512 --> 00:11:03,387
about, like, the pain...
281
00:11:03,387 --> 00:11:04,220
that she's going through,
282
00:11:04,220 --> 00:11:06,679
and I'm going through,
like, while...
283
00:11:07,512 --> 00:11:10,136
we're just trying to
put out fires.
284
00:11:10,512 --> 00:11:12,345
Is there more
that is- w-
285
00:11:12,345 --> 00:11:13,470
that we should
add to this?
286
00:11:13,470 --> 00:11:14,929
-Is the kitchen..?
-[Sarah] Yeah.
287
00:11:14,929 --> 00:11:16,178
It's the kitchen,
288
00:11:16,178 --> 00:11:17,553
and before that,
it was, like,
289
00:11:17,553 --> 00:11:18,762
our schedules
were too full.
290
00:11:18,762 --> 00:11:19,679
And as soon
as we, like,
291
00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:20,970
took the schedules down,
292
00:11:20,970 --> 00:11:22,178
it was like...
293
00:11:22,178 --> 00:11:24,387
now the kitchen's gonna
consume everything.
294
00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:27,804
I just fucking don't know
what to do with it all.
295
00:11:28,053 --> 00:11:28,887
[Orna]
Mm-hm.
296
00:11:31,345 --> 00:11:32,595
I mean, it's, like,
297
00:11:32,595 --> 00:11:34,387
it's really unfortunate
timing
298
00:11:34,387 --> 00:11:36,762
that this pregnancy...
299
00:11:36,762 --> 00:11:39,345
didn't happen exactly
around this time.
300
00:11:39,345 --> 00:11:40,261
[Sarah]
Yeah.
301
00:11:40,261 --> 00:11:41,553
But this is...
302
00:11:41,553 --> 00:11:42,553
random.
303
00:11:43,303 --> 00:11:44,011
[Sarah]
Mm-hm.
304
00:11:44,387 --> 00:11:45,804
Yeah, I don't
really buy that.
305
00:11:45,804 --> 00:11:46,929
[Orna] That it's
random?
306
00:11:46,929 --> 00:11:47,345
Yeah.
307
00:11:48,220 --> 00:11:49,345
It just feels like
308
00:11:49,345 --> 00:11:51,053
all this shit that's
happening right now
309
00:11:51,053 --> 00:11:51,720
is so big,
310
00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:52,887
that it's hard to...
311
00:11:54,053 --> 00:11:54,762
ignore.
312
00:11:55,470 --> 00:11:56,303
Like it feels like
the universe
313
00:11:56,303 --> 00:11:57,887
is hitting me
over the...head
314
00:11:57,887 --> 00:11:58,762
with some kind
of message,
315
00:11:58,762 --> 00:11:59,387
and I'm not-
316
00:11:59,387 --> 00:12:01,053
I'm not getting it.
317
00:12:01,637 --> 00:12:03,553
All of the shit
that's happening
318
00:12:03,553 --> 00:12:04,679
on the
319
00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:05,679
political arena-
320
00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:06,845
-No.
-[Orna] or...
321
00:12:06,845 --> 00:12:08,470
-your kitchen, or-
-Everything,
322
00:12:08,470 --> 00:12:09,929
Right.
All of it.
323
00:12:09,929 --> 00:12:10,762
like all-
324
00:12:10,762 --> 00:12:12,553
-add it all up.
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
325
00:12:12,553 --> 00:12:15,095
And it feels like
it should mean...
326
00:12:15,095 --> 00:12:15,887
something
327
00:12:15,887 --> 00:12:16,887
that all of this
is happening
328
00:12:16,887 --> 00:12:17,970
at the same time.
329
00:12:18,261 --> 00:12:19,679
But you can
also say
330
00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:20,804
that it means...
331
00:12:20,804 --> 00:12:22,428
that you...
332
00:12:22,428 --> 00:12:25,470
the two of you
have a way of...
333
00:12:25,470 --> 00:12:26,804
packing it in...
334
00:12:26,804 --> 00:12:28,261
and hurrying...
335
00:12:28,261 --> 00:12:29,470
so much
336
00:12:29,470 --> 00:12:30,595
that sometimes,
337
00:12:30,595 --> 00:12:31,470
you're gonna
find yourself
338
00:12:31,470 --> 00:12:33,428
suddenly when one
thing starts...
339
00:12:33,428 --> 00:12:34,679
tipping, another thing
tips,
340
00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:35,553
and you're...
341
00:12:36,178 --> 00:12:38,345
suddenly in this kind
of situation.
342
00:12:38,345 --> 00:12:39,011
Mm-hm.
343
00:12:40,095 --> 00:12:41,261
[Orna]
And...
344
00:12:41,261 --> 00:12:43,178
you're kinda young
and impulsive.
345
00:12:43,470 --> 00:12:44,637
So, it is punishment.
346
00:12:46,303 --> 00:12:47,553
For being impulsive.
347
00:12:49,053 --> 00:12:50,970
like this- we deserve
this then.
348
00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:52,637
No...
349
00:12:54,387 --> 00:12:56,512
no, that's not what
I'm saying,
350
00:12:56,512 --> 00:12:57,845
but you- you- you're-
351
00:12:57,845 --> 00:12:59,095
you have, um...
352
00:12:59,804 --> 00:13:01,345
a pressure there to
experience this
353
00:13:01,345 --> 00:13:02,804
as punishment.
354
00:13:03,845 --> 00:13:05,345
That's not what
I'm saying.
355
00:13:05,595 --> 00:13:07,303
I'm saying it's random.
356
00:13:09,095 --> 00:13:11,011
That what you're seeing
as related
357
00:13:11,011 --> 00:13:11,887
has something
to do-
358
00:13:11,887 --> 00:13:12,970
h- has nothing
to do
359
00:13:12,970 --> 00:13:15,387
with the relationship
between these events...
360
00:13:15,387 --> 00:13:17,762
but it has to do with
something totally different...
361
00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:20,845
which is that
your kitchen,
362
00:13:20,845 --> 00:13:21,929
and the- the
363
00:13:21,929 --> 00:13:22,804
the pregnancy,
364
00:13:22,804 --> 00:13:23,970
uh, the
administration,
365
00:13:23,970 --> 00:13:25,637
who could've
foreseen that,
366
00:13:26,261 --> 00:13:28,011
but the kitchen, and
the pregnancy...
367
00:13:28,929 --> 00:13:30,178
happen at the
same time
368
00:13:30,178 --> 00:13:31,178
because
369
00:13:31,178 --> 00:13:32,720
you didn't wait to
finish your kitchen
370
00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:34,845
before getting-
trying to get pregnant.
371
00:13:36,178 --> 00:13:37,095
That's not a crime.
372
00:13:38,553 --> 00:13:39,470
It's a risk.
373
00:13:41,512 --> 00:13:43,011
It's not a crime...
374
00:13:43,011 --> 00:13:44,595
that deserves
punishment.
375
00:13:48,553 --> 00:13:51,679
♪soft
piano♪
376
00:13:53,345 --> 00:13:55,679
[Orna] I have two worries
about Sarah.
377
00:13:56,887 --> 00:13:58,345
One is...
378
00:13:58,345 --> 00:14:01,428
this thing that she keeps
falling back to about,
379
00:14:01,428 --> 00:14:02,679
um...
380
00:14:03,845 --> 00:14:05,762
being stuck in the
caretaker role...
381
00:14:05,762 --> 00:14:07,136
-[Virginia] Yeah.
-Which...
382
00:14:08,178 --> 00:14:11,095
I can see that Lauren doesn't
know what to do about that.
383
00:14:11,095 --> 00:14:11,637
Yeah.
384
00:14:11,637 --> 00:14:12,553
[Orna]
And...
385
00:14:12,553 --> 00:14:14,303
it sounds to me like...
386
00:14:15,178 --> 00:14:17,387
i-i-i-like the- this
punish narrative
387
00:14:17,387 --> 00:14:18,804
is that there's the idea
388
00:14:18,804 --> 00:14:20,553
that she's being
punished
389
00:14:20,553 --> 00:14:21,887
for living a queer life,
390
00:14:21,887 --> 00:14:23,679
and that she should
get back in line.
391
00:14:24,303 --> 00:14:25,887
And that things will
not go well for her
392
00:14:25,887 --> 00:14:27,595
if she's not doing
what she
393
00:14:27,595 --> 00:14:29,303
was raised
to do.
394
00:14:29,845 --> 00:14:31,095
She keeps talking
about how
395
00:14:31,095 --> 00:14:32,136
she comes from
a family
396
00:14:32,136 --> 00:14:34,428
where everyone is
so conservative.
397
00:14:34,428 --> 00:14:35,220
[Virginia]
Right.
398
00:14:35,220 --> 00:14:37,136
She saw men
originally.
399
00:14:37,136 --> 00:14:39,095
She keeps talking
about how easy it is
400
00:14:39,095 --> 00:14:40,804
for straight people,
which is actually not true.
401
00:14:40,804 --> 00:14:41,804
[Virginia] That's what
I was wondering
402
00:14:41,804 --> 00:14:42,595
whether in her...
403
00:14:42,595 --> 00:14:45,011
pre- queer,
pre-gay life,
404
00:14:45,011 --> 00:14:46,428
did she have...
405
00:14:46,428 --> 00:14:47,512
at least in her r-
406
00:14:48,637 --> 00:14:50,595
retrospective
telling...
407
00:14:50,595 --> 00:14:51,804
an easier time
408
00:14:51,804 --> 00:14:53,804
in a heteronormative
life?
409
00:14:53,804 --> 00:14:55,011
She talks about all
these other
410
00:14:55,011 --> 00:14:56,136
heteronormative people-
411
00:14:56,136 --> 00:14:57,762
-[Virginia] I know.
-that are having an easier time.
412
00:14:57,762 --> 00:14:59,178
[Virginia] Right, but n-
we don't know about her
413
00:14:59,178 --> 00:15:00,845
-heteronormative life.
-Yeah, I don't know about her.
414
00:15:01,095 --> 00:15:02,970
[Orna] I don't
know exactly...
415
00:15:02,970 --> 00:15:04,845
the limits of
what to say.
416
00:15:04,845 --> 00:15:06,220
[Virginia]
Yeah, I- yeah.
417
00:15:06,220 --> 00:15:07,929
We've been here
before, you and I.
418
00:15:07,929 --> 00:15:08,970
Yeah.
419
00:15:08,970 --> 00:15:10,804
[Virginia] But this
particular moment...
420
00:15:10,804 --> 00:15:12,929
I wouldn't have such a conflict
about just sitting with it,
421
00:15:12,929 --> 00:15:14,553
and thinking about
it later.
422
00:15:15,428 --> 00:15:16,929
But I get...
423
00:15:16,929 --> 00:15:18,595
that you wanna see
if you can do more.
424
00:15:20,470 --> 00:15:24,178
♪soft
strumming♪
425
00:16:33,762 --> 00:16:34,845
[Desean] This woman
who work for me
426
00:16:34,845 --> 00:16:36,178
had a death in the family.
427
00:16:36,178 --> 00:16:37,887
So the night before,
428
00:16:37,887 --> 00:16:39,679
she's kinda hammering
me about,
429
00:16:39,679 --> 00:16:42,053
"Why do you need to
go to this funeral?"
430
00:16:42,053 --> 00:16:43,929
I'm like, "What's
the big deal?"
431
00:16:43,929 --> 00:16:45,178
And then she says...
432
00:16:45,178 --> 00:16:47,178
"I asked you to do
something for me.
433
00:16:47,178 --> 00:16:47,845
You couldn't do it,
434
00:16:47,845 --> 00:16:48,679
but you're gonna go
435
00:16:48,679 --> 00:16:50,261
to a stranger's funeral."
436
00:16:50,929 --> 00:16:52,553
I said, "What's
upsetting you?
437
00:16:52,553 --> 00:16:53,553
What exactly
438
00:16:53,553 --> 00:16:54,637
-are you angry at?"
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
439
00:16:54,637 --> 00:16:55,720
-That's- I learned that here-
-[Orna] Yeah.
440
00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:57,303
-going to therapy.
-Yeah.
441
00:16:57,303 --> 00:16:59,553
"If you're mad at
me because...
442
00:16:59,553 --> 00:17:01,011
I'm going to
this thing,
443
00:17:01,011 --> 00:17:01,887
uh, why?
444
00:17:01,887 --> 00:17:03,512
Why does that bother
you so much?
445
00:17:03,512 --> 00:17:04,387
[Orna]
Mm-hm.
446
00:17:04,387 --> 00:17:05,762
You don't even
know this person."
447
00:17:06,178 --> 00:17:06,970
I'm like, "I actually do.
448
00:17:06,970 --> 00:17:08,053
She works for me."
449
00:17:08,762 --> 00:17:09,720
You know,
450
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:11,553
I- I'm doing
something that...
451
00:17:11,553 --> 00:17:13,428
involves anyone
else...
452
00:17:13,428 --> 00:17:14,679
so now...
453
00:17:15,220 --> 00:17:16,887
"How dare I?"
kinda thing.
454
00:17:16,887 --> 00:17:18,428
You know?
Like...
455
00:17:18,428 --> 00:17:19,220
I'm getting mad.
456
00:17:19,887 --> 00:17:21,220
-Jump in.
-[Orna] By this- by this-
457
00:17:21,220 --> 00:17:22,345
Because...
458
00:17:22,345 --> 00:17:23,804
I cannot get him
to wake up
459
00:17:23,804 --> 00:17:24,929
before eight o'clock,
460
00:17:24,929 --> 00:17:26,845
or before ten o'clock
461
00:17:26,845 --> 00:17:28,845
on a Saturday
or a Sunday.
462
00:17:28,845 --> 00:17:31,303
But you're gonna go to this
person's sister's funeral?
463
00:17:31,595 --> 00:17:32,470
Why?
464
00:17:32,845 --> 00:17:34,053
A lot of people
die and-
465
00:17:34,053 --> 00:17:36,178
people's mother's sister's
cousin's brother's
466
00:17:36,178 --> 00:17:38,553
uncles died his-
at his job.
467
00:17:38,553 --> 00:17:39,804
So, I need to know...
468
00:17:39,804 --> 00:17:40,929
wh- who this
person is,
469
00:17:40,929 --> 00:17:43,136
what the importance
of this person is
470
00:17:43,136 --> 00:17:44,095
-that made you get up.
-[Orna] So...
471
00:17:44,095 --> 00:17:45,637
I-I-I...
472
00:17:45,637 --> 00:17:46,845
wanna try to...
473
00:17:46,845 --> 00:17:48,512
cut to the chase.
474
00:17:49,136 --> 00:17:50,637
Y- The moment
you're going, like,
475
00:17:50,637 --> 00:17:52,095
"Why aren't you?"
476
00:17:52,095 --> 00:17:54,220
you're already back
in the same trap.
477
00:17:56,845 --> 00:17:57,637
Okay.
478
00:17:58,595 --> 00:18:00,512
But you start off just
from where you are...
479
00:18:00,512 --> 00:18:02,929
when you make this kinda
decision to wake up
480
00:18:02,929 --> 00:18:05,553
Saturday morning, and
go to this funeral...
481
00:18:05,553 --> 00:18:07,553
this is what it
brings up for me.
482
00:18:08,220 --> 00:18:09,470
It makes me
feel like
483
00:18:09,470 --> 00:18:10,929
everyone else
484
00:18:10,929 --> 00:18:14,095
has a level of
priority in his life
485
00:18:14,595 --> 00:18:15,845
that I don't.
486
00:18:15,845 --> 00:18:16,345
Okay.
487
00:18:17,595 --> 00:18:18,720
-And-
-Can you just say that?
488
00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:19,637
Mm-hm.
489
00:18:19,637 --> 00:18:20,637
I- I wanna see
what happens.
490
00:18:20,637 --> 00:18:22,637
Can you imagine...
491
00:18:22,637 --> 00:18:24,637
not even taking
the bait?
492
00:18:24,637 --> 00:18:25,178
Yeah.
493
00:18:25,970 --> 00:18:26,804
And going straight
to the heart?
494
00:18:28,303 --> 00:18:29,762
I- I- I- Yeah.
495
00:18:31,470 --> 00:18:34,261
But what would happen
if Desean said,
496
00:18:34,261 --> 00:18:35,178
"You know you're
497
00:18:35,178 --> 00:18:37,303
the most important
person in my life?
498
00:18:38,053 --> 00:18:38,970
I love you.
499
00:18:38,970 --> 00:18:40,470
I'm sorry you
feel this way"?
500
00:18:40,470 --> 00:18:41,303
Um...
501
00:18:41,970 --> 00:18:43,845
[Orna] It sucks
to feel this way.
502
00:18:43,845 --> 00:18:45,136
It'd be nice
to hear...
503
00:18:46,220 --> 00:18:46,845
but...
504
00:18:47,762 --> 00:18:50,303
it's- it goes back to
what I said before.
505
00:18:50,303 --> 00:18:52,261
You know, you- you-
506
00:18:52,804 --> 00:18:54,011
you can't punch somebody
in the face,
507
00:18:54,011 --> 00:18:55,887
and then tell them
you love them.
508
00:18:56,136 --> 00:18:57,637
-Who do I believe-
-What's the punch?
509
00:18:57,637 --> 00:18:59,303
The punch in the face,
510
00:18:59,303 --> 00:19:00,011
like, literally,
511
00:19:00,887 --> 00:19:01,637
you can't punch
somebody in the face-
512
00:19:01,637 --> 00:19:02,512
But what is
the analogy,
513
00:19:02,512 --> 00:19:03,679
-what's the punch?
-The analogy is
514
00:19:03,679 --> 00:19:05,261
you can't do two
different con-
515
00:19:05,261 --> 00:19:06,720
But what was the punch?
516
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:07,804
The punch is
517
00:19:07,804 --> 00:19:11,011
you doing exactly what
you're sorry about, yet-
518
00:19:11,011 --> 00:19:12,387
[Orna] Meaning going
to the funeral?
519
00:19:12,387 --> 00:19:14,762
Or making those kinds
of decisions.
520
00:19:14,762 --> 00:19:17,053
Wait, but-
Elaine-
521
00:19:17,053 --> 00:19:19,011
Making me feel
that way, yeah!
522
00:19:19,011 --> 00:19:21,387
He's not making
you feel this way.
523
00:19:22,136 --> 00:19:23,762
He's not making
you feel this way.
524
00:19:23,762 --> 00:19:24,637
Okay.
525
00:19:25,261 --> 00:19:28,637
He's deciding...
to do something-
526
00:19:28,637 --> 00:19:30,095
-Often
-that he thinks is important.
527
00:19:30,095 --> 00:19:31,095
-Okay, mm-hm.
-Yeah.
528
00:19:31,095 --> 00:19:32,387
That is not-
529
00:19:32,970 --> 00:19:34,553
that- that is not
the equivalent
530
00:19:34,553 --> 00:19:36,428
of punching you
in the face.
531
00:19:38,929 --> 00:19:41,220
Perhaps the analogy
is a little rough, but-
532
00:19:41,220 --> 00:19:42,887
[Orna] But it's not
only a little rough,
533
00:19:42,887 --> 00:19:44,845
it- it gives you...
534
00:19:44,845 --> 00:19:46,220
a direct clue
535
00:19:46,220 --> 00:19:49,053
as to where these
feelings come from.
536
00:19:51,136 --> 00:19:51,804
Huh.
537
00:19:52,553 --> 00:19:53,261
That's interesting.
538
00:19:53,553 --> 00:19:54,387
[Orna]
Right.
539
00:19:54,387 --> 00:19:56,053
You've described
a relationship
540
00:19:56,053 --> 00:19:57,929
in which- I mean the
father of your son
541
00:19:57,929 --> 00:19:59,095
was that man.
542
00:19:59,095 --> 00:20:00,387
That's interesting.
543
00:20:01,595 --> 00:20:02,303
Huh.
544
00:20:02,970 --> 00:20:04,553
[Desean] So, here's
my thing.
545
00:20:04,553 --> 00:20:06,428
If she says,
546
00:20:06,428 --> 00:20:09,887
"You know, I- I would like
for you to do things
547
00:20:09,887 --> 00:20:11,428
with me on a Saturday
morning,"
548
00:20:11,428 --> 00:20:13,428
and I'm like, "I'd rather
sleep in, right?"
549
00:20:13,428 --> 00:20:14,470
All the time.
Go on.
550
00:20:14,470 --> 00:20:15,428
-All the time.
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
551
00:20:15,428 --> 00:20:17,887
And something comes
up on a Saturday-
552
00:20:17,887 --> 00:20:18,720
[Orna]
Mm-hm.
553
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:19,887
that would require me
554
00:20:19,887 --> 00:20:21,762
-to have to get up, and go.
-[Orna] Yeah, mm-hm.
555
00:20:21,762 --> 00:20:23,261
Am I to...
556
00:20:23,261 --> 00:20:25,929
never do anything...
557
00:20:27,303 --> 00:20:29,387
because I've said no
to you for this thing?
558
00:20:29,387 --> 00:20:30,387
That's what it
feels like.
559
00:20:30,387 --> 00:20:32,095
-It's ridiculous.
-[Orna] I understand.
560
00:20:32,095 --> 00:20:33,261
It puts the two
of you-
561
00:20:33,261 --> 00:20:35,428
-I- I understand each of you-
-It's ridiculous.
562
00:20:36,553 --> 00:20:38,136
And it puts the
two of you
563
00:20:38,136 --> 00:20:40,679
in a very
difficult spot.
564
00:20:41,303 --> 00:20:44,804
She has a need that
I cannot fulfill for her
565
00:20:44,804 --> 00:20:45,929
as her husband.
566
00:20:45,929 --> 00:20:46,595
I can't.
567
00:20:47,303 --> 00:20:48,428
[Orna] The need
to feel special?
568
00:20:48,428 --> 00:20:49,261
Yeah.
569
00:20:50,136 --> 00:20:51,637
I can't fulfill
that need for her.
570
00:20:51,637 --> 00:20:52,595
I just can't.
571
00:20:52,595 --> 00:20:53,512
Nothing
I do...
572
00:20:53,512 --> 00:20:56,428
Absent of just
dropping everything,
573
00:20:56,428 --> 00:20:57,303
and everyone,
574
00:20:57,303 --> 00:20:59,095
no con- you know,
and just...
575
00:20:59,095 --> 00:21:01,261
focus on her 24/7-
576
00:21:01,261 --> 00:21:02,637
-Mm-hm.
-[Desean] Maybe that'll work,
577
00:21:02,637 --> 00:21:03,261
I don't know.
578
00:21:03,261 --> 00:21:04,053
Mm-hm.
579
00:21:04,053 --> 00:21:06,136
[Desean]
But she has...
580
00:21:06,762 --> 00:21:10,387
a need that I cannot
581
00:21:10,387 --> 00:21:11,428
provide for her...
582
00:21:13,136 --> 00:21:14,679
-and-
-That's the conclusion
583
00:21:14,679 --> 00:21:16,845
-you're coming to-
-[Desean] Yep.
584
00:21:17,303 --> 00:21:20,011
To not be able
to provide,
585
00:21:20,011 --> 00:21:21,470
what's that like
for you?
586
00:21:22,970 --> 00:21:24,512
Makes me feel
inadequate.
587
00:21:24,512 --> 00:21:27,053
Makes me feel,
um...
588
00:21:29,428 --> 00:21:30,136
crappy.
589
00:21:31,136 --> 00:21:33,303
I'm the type of
person, if I can't
590
00:21:33,303 --> 00:21:35,679
-bring any value to this-
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
591
00:21:36,303 --> 00:21:37,762
You won't-you won't
need to see me.
592
00:21:37,762 --> 00:21:38,679
I won't hang around.
593
00:21:38,679 --> 00:21:41,136
I- I- I don't wanna
be a part of it.
594
00:21:41,136 --> 00:21:42,095
[Orna]
Mm-hm.
595
00:21:42,095 --> 00:21:43,345
I'm not gonna
cause you pain.
596
00:21:43,345 --> 00:21:44,679
I'm not gonna...
597
00:21:44,679 --> 00:21:46,303
If I can't fix
this thing-
598
00:21:46,303 --> 00:21:47,679
[Orna] So, let's just
stay with this feeling
599
00:21:47,679 --> 00:21:49,303
what you're giving...
600
00:21:49,303 --> 00:21:50,845
is not...
601
00:21:50,845 --> 00:21:51,970
[Desean]
Not enough.
602
00:21:51,970 --> 00:21:54,345
Not of value,
not enough.
603
00:21:54,345 --> 00:21:56,053
Your love is
not enough.
604
00:21:56,053 --> 00:21:56,679
Yeah.
605
00:21:58,512 --> 00:22:00,679
Can you imagine
what that's like?
606
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:02,470
Yes.
607
00:22:04,178 --> 00:22:05,804
-I mean-
-but do you hear it?
608
00:22:05,804 --> 00:22:06,679
I hear it.
609
00:22:07,762 --> 00:22:09,178
[Orna] Does it
matter to you?
610
00:22:09,178 --> 00:22:11,345
-Of course, it does.
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
611
00:22:11,345 --> 00:22:13,011
-Of course, it does.
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
612
00:22:13,011 --> 00:22:14,845
I mean, I'm leaning
613
00:22:14,845 --> 00:22:16,512
more on you in
this conversation
614
00:22:16,512 --> 00:22:18,679
because this happens
to be a kind of conflict
615
00:22:18,679 --> 00:22:21,679
when I feel like you have
more work to do about it.
616
00:22:23,470 --> 00:22:27,845
So, this is not kind of an
evenly distributed pressure
617
00:22:27,845 --> 00:22:30,136
but I need to put
pressure on you here.
618
00:22:30,595 --> 00:22:31,929
One way to
say it is that
619
00:22:31,929 --> 00:22:35,637
you're taking a relatively
neutral event...
620
00:22:35,637 --> 00:22:37,345
and you're-
621
00:22:37,345 --> 00:22:40,387
it's like, I mean, to
put it in very m-
622
00:22:40,387 --> 00:22:42,553
-blunt terms-
-[Elaine] Mm-hm, mm-hm.
623
00:22:42,553 --> 00:22:46,261
Your history of
trauma is...
624
00:22:46,261 --> 00:22:48,011
pouring color
all over it
625
00:22:48,011 --> 00:22:49,512
on a neutral event.
626
00:22:53,178 --> 00:22:56,720
And y- you're ending
up feeling horrible...
627
00:22:58,220 --> 00:23:00,512
and pushing your
partner away.
628
00:23:01,136 --> 00:23:02,345
Mm-hm.
629
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:05,720
Mmm.
630
00:23:07,011 --> 00:23:09,929
Now, I- I- I'm saying
this aware of the fact
631
00:23:09,929 --> 00:23:12,095
that you're suffering
in this kind of moment
632
00:23:12,095 --> 00:23:13,261
is real.
633
00:23:13,261 --> 00:23:15,345
You really feel like,
"Oh my god,
634
00:23:15,345 --> 00:23:17,428
he- he'll do anything
for anyone else,
635
00:23:17,428 --> 00:23:19,011
-and not for me.
-[Elaine] Mm-hm, mm-hm...
636
00:23:19,011 --> 00:23:20,762
There I am, nobody cares.
637
00:23:20,762 --> 00:23:23,387
-I'm not important. I'm alone.
-[Elaine] Mm-hm, mm-hm.
638
00:23:23,387 --> 00:23:26,595
I understand that that's
your real experience.
639
00:23:26,845 --> 00:23:28,220
Mm-hm, mm-hm,
mm-hm.
640
00:23:28,220 --> 00:23:29,845
[Orna] But I can also
see how this is
641
00:23:29,845 --> 00:23:31,595
a kind of moment
where...
642
00:23:31,595 --> 00:23:34,053
it's like your unconscious
is just pouring
643
00:23:34,053 --> 00:23:35,679
a pile of paint...
644
00:23:35,679 --> 00:23:37,595
on a neutral canvas.
645
00:23:38,845 --> 00:23:40,011
[Elaine]
Mmm.
646
00:23:41,762 --> 00:23:46,512
Well, I don't know
how to not paint.
647
00:23:46,512 --> 00:23:47,762
[Orna]
Mm-hm.
648
00:23:47,762 --> 00:23:50,011
Because I'm not conscious
that I'm doing it-
649
00:23:50,011 --> 00:23:51,345
-[Orna] Right.
-So it's not like I can connect
650
00:23:51,345 --> 00:23:52,470
-to something-
-[Orna] Right.
651
00:23:52,470 --> 00:23:54,428
-To switch it off, right?
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
652
00:23:54,428 --> 00:23:55,887
So, like, I- I honest
to goodness-
653
00:23:55,887 --> 00:23:58,970
Do you have any idea how
you could be helpful?
654
00:23:59,303 --> 00:24:01,428
[laughs]
655
00:24:02,929 --> 00:24:04,804
Do I have any idea?
656
00:24:04,804 --> 00:24:06,011
No, no.
657
00:24:06,011 --> 00:24:09,303
I used to sort of say,
"All right, okay, okay,"
658
00:24:09,303 --> 00:24:10,804
but I don't do
that anymore.
659
00:24:10,804 --> 00:24:12,303
-I'm like-
-[Orna] Meaning to just appease-
660
00:24:12,303 --> 00:24:13,303
-[Desean] Yeah.
-And, let's say,
661
00:24:13,303 --> 00:24:14,637
-cancel the funeral?
-[Desean] Yeah.
662
00:24:14,637 --> 00:24:16,470
No, no, that is not
the way to do it.
663
00:24:16,470 --> 00:24:17,470
-That- it doesn't happen.
-No.
664
00:24:17,470 --> 00:24:18,970
[Desean] I don't do
that anymore.
665
00:24:18,970 --> 00:24:21,470
That is not gonna work.
That's not gonna address...
666
00:24:21,470 --> 00:24:22,428
-the ultimate-
-[Desean] So-
667
00:24:22,428 --> 00:24:23,929
to answer your question,
I don't know.
668
00:24:23,929 --> 00:24:24,720
-You don't know?
-I don't know.
669
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:25,762
I don't know.
670
00:24:26,261 --> 00:24:29,428
Can you think of a way that
Desean can both
671
00:24:29,428 --> 00:24:31,553
kind of maintain his
integrity as a person,
672
00:24:31,553 --> 00:24:33,553
making his own
decisions,
673
00:24:33,553 --> 00:24:35,470
and care about you?
674
00:24:35,470 --> 00:24:37,637
So, here's- here's the
thing about that.
675
00:24:37,637 --> 00:24:39,804
I- I- I feel like if
676
00:24:39,804 --> 00:24:41,679
it's rehearsed,
677
00:24:41,679 --> 00:24:44,136
it's doesn't come
from within.
678
00:24:44,136 --> 00:24:46,428
Like if you
care, you care.
679
00:24:46,679 --> 00:24:49,512
And if you don't,
then you really don't,
680
00:24:49,512 --> 00:24:50,720
and so, I can't
make you care
681
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:52,470
-by giving you choices.
-Right, but caring is not-
682
00:24:52,470 --> 00:24:56,303
That's what happens with
this kind of trauma mind,
683
00:24:56,303 --> 00:24:58,887
that you set it up
so that the...
684
00:24:58,887 --> 00:25:01,845
evidence for care is
actually impossible...
685
00:25:02,804 --> 00:25:03,804
because...
686
00:25:03,804 --> 00:25:06,220
canceling a funeral
in this kind of case
687
00:25:06,220 --> 00:25:08,345
is not an act of
caring.
688
00:25:08,345 --> 00:25:10,512
It's an act of
compliance.
689
00:25:13,178 --> 00:25:17,553
But then i- my mind
goes right back to,
690
00:25:17,553 --> 00:25:19,011
you know, all
of the things
691
00:25:19,011 --> 00:25:21,053
that you didn't keep
your word on.
692
00:25:21,053 --> 00:25:23,053
It's almost like...
693
00:25:23,053 --> 00:25:25,553
-I have a VHS tape-
-Mm-hm.
694
00:25:25,553 --> 00:25:28,220
And I can rewind every
instance-
695
00:25:28,220 --> 00:25:30,595
-[Orna] Mm-hm.
-Of...that.
696
00:25:30,595 --> 00:25:33,512
[Orna] And the
VHS tape...
697
00:25:33,804 --> 00:25:35,387
is designed
698
00:25:35,387 --> 00:25:38,220
to reinforce
the feeling
699
00:25:38,220 --> 00:25:39,929
that you do not
matter.
700
00:25:40,178 --> 00:25:42,178
Hm, that's- that-
that's-
701
00:25:42,178 --> 00:25:43,595
-[Orna] That tape-
-Interesting.
702
00:25:44,220 --> 00:25:46,679
-That tape is your enemy.
-[Elaine] That's interesting.
703
00:25:47,178 --> 00:25:50,887
That tape is your...
prison.
704
00:25:53,303 --> 00:25:56,261
That's history grabbing
onto you,
705
00:25:56,261 --> 00:25:57,637
and not letting
you
706
00:25:57,637 --> 00:25:59,387
live your
current life.
707
00:26:00,178 --> 00:26:02,595
You're such a
fierce lioness,
708
00:26:02,595 --> 00:26:04,136
and you're forward,
forward, forward,
709
00:26:04,136 --> 00:26:06,595
but history is catching
up with you.
710
00:26:09,261 --> 00:26:10,720
Nah, I won't let it.
711
00:26:12,261 --> 00:26:14,929
Nah...I won't let it.
712
00:26:16,470 --> 00:26:20,178
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