Original subtitles

So he has a lot of... birthday...

stuff.

Always has.

I have been...

unsuccessful (chuckles] for 20 years

and so two years ago,

I was pulling out sto-- all the stops.

Like, I had planned this huge weekend,

I had -- I was trying so hard,

but in my focus on...

-the weekend... -Mm-hm.

I had been...

not attentive...

during that week leading up to it

and he kept saying to me...

basically, "You're barking up the wrong tree,"

and I wasn't listening.

And I wasn't getting it. And I was like,

"Oh, just -- just shh."

Like, "I jus-- I gotta -- I gotta...

Just wait 'til the weekend, just wait 'til the weekend."

And he said...

"Cancel everything. I don't --

I'm not going with you.

I don't -- I don't --

I don't want anything.

I don't want this.

And by the way, where is my passport?"

And he went to Italy.

-[laughs] -[laughs]

♪groovy bass and drums♪

♪waiting room music♪

[exhales deeply]

[sighs]

[exhaling deeply] Woo.

Okay.

[whispering] Don't touch me.

[laughs] [whispering] Stop it.

[sighs]

-[unintelligible] -Yeah.

-Hi. -Hi.

-Hey. -Hi.

-Have a seat. -Okay.

[Mau] I don't have complicated needs.

I am utterly transparent and completely communicative

about what it is I want.

I'm also...

totally consistent.

I am the easiest person...

to -- to deal with.

Says you.

Says me.

Well, say it.

What -- what are your wishes?

All I want is, er...

See, I'm gonna try to think of how to say it

so it doesn't sound terrible.

Well, say it terrible.

So what I want is to...

-have zero responsibility. -Mm-hm.

To have all the sex I want

without any...

any work on my part

of any kind. [chuckles]

Like, zero work.

-Zero thinking about it. -Mm-hm.

And...not --

And it has to be both...

spectacular and enthusiastic

and genuine.

Um, so that --

But you want the -- the --

the birthday experience to be like that?

Like with -- with the birthday for example.

[Orna] Birthday, yeah.

-So what happened? -She was putting in all this...

-For you, what happened? -all -- all this effort...

but...

the things she was doing is the things

that she could only imagine I would want

if she never was paying attention.

For example?

For example, it was gonna be...

a costume calendar

and then it was a dominatrix

-and then it was... -[chuckles]

like --

She had, like...

You know, uh, was probably, like, a threesome.

It was like...stuff.

Sexual events?

-Yes. All -- all -- Yes. -Oh, yeah.

But you knew about it.

It wasn't a surprise.

-Mmm -- -No.

It wasn't a complete surprise.

You know, part of it, she was so enthusiastic about it

she couldn't keep it to herself.

-Okay. -And I was just like --

You heard these

potential exciting events as...?

Mm-hm.

Well, I didn't hear them as anything.

I just simply observed that...

you're doing what you want to do...

for me instead of

what I want you to do for me.

-And -- -So to get...

-Mm-hm. -even more into the weeds...

-Yeah, sure. -So, for example,

the sexual fantasies played out

would be Annie's sexual fantasies and not yours?

-Well, not exactly. -Is that what we're saying?

No, they -- they were sort of like...

her description of what mine were

if you never listened to me.

I mean, they were objectively --

They were some... fantasy of what you want,

-but it's not really... -Right.

hitting the mark.

To begin with,

they all sound like fun.

-Okay. -There's no problem there.

They were all -- it was all good.

If it had just been...

-a random Saturday... -Mm-hm.

and not your birthday...

-also... -I see.

it may have been a little more welcome.

-I see. -It was this pressure of...

-his birthday. -But because it was a birthday,

it felt particularly misattuned?

-Is that what you're saying? -Well, y-- yeah, y-- yes.

-I mean -- -Every year.

It's a trap.

If this is it,

if this is, like, the --

the big hoorah,

this is what I --

I've been...

25 years of being Mr. Amazing was...

like, waiting, enh, and this was it?

Then, like, no thanks.

I'm -- I'm just not interested.

You became...

angry.

I don't think angry,

I think I'm disappointed.

-Mm-hm. -Uh...

I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

I don't know what I could do differently.

You don't know what you're doing wrong?

Yes.

Like, i-- So imagine that...

I want her to do something differently,

-right? -Mm-hm.

I could get her do whatever I want.

That's not what I want.

What I want is for her to do whatever I want

without me...

having to...

make it happen.

To just...

You know I want a glass of water

before I ask

and it's there waiting.

And that --

C--can I ask you something?

Of course.

Did you ever have anybody...

take care of you like that?

No.

That sounds really maternal.

That sounds like, you know,

a mother/infant bond.

Yes, we have our moments with lovers

where that can...

happen, but I don't...

I don't know,

that's just what occurred to me

when you were saying it.

That's a pretty profound thing to say.

Really?

Not a fairly...

-obvious... -[laughs]

distracting...

insignificant...?

[laughing] I thought it was profound.

What is profound about that?

How is that profound?

[sighs] Th-- th--

Drawing that parallel?

Is it -- I mean, that's like --

-Like, duh? -I'm sure if you open up

one of these books,

it's on the first fuckin' page.

I'm just wondering if you're aware

of how...

quickly you moved to devaluation.

Do you know that?

I -- I think that I don't care

how quickly I moved to devaluation.

Whether you care about it or not --

Am I -- am I aware that sometimes,

I move quickly to devaluation?

Yes.

But I'm also noticing...

um...

how difficult it is to actually meet you.

I notice even in the way

I'm talking to you...

Mm-hm.

that it's very hard to...

get it right.

Like when I try to say back to you

what's goin' -- what I just heard...

Mm-hm.

it's never right.

And when you correct me,

I can see why you're correcting me.

Mm-hm.

I understand the nuance

and where I missed the point.

That's very frustrating for me.

-Yes, I'm -- -What I wanna hear...

is...why...

is...the moment where someone

is not just right...

-Mh-hm. -not just right...

why is that so devastating?

That's yours.

I don't know that it's devastating,

I think it's --

[laughing] See, you did it just then.

"Devastating" is not quite the right word,

and you're going to correct the word devastating

and you can't see that "devastating"...

might have, like...

Well, she's --

It is simply not...devastating.

That is not a proper use of that word...

in any other wor--

I mean, uh, unless you're being hyperbolic

and I don't know what the point of that would be.

If the point was clearly --

I wasn't being hyperbolic.

I'm actually assuming that...

on some --

in some way --

How about "deeply inconvenient?"

No, I don't think it's inconvenient.

I think there's a much more --

-I do. -emotional...

um...

[sighs]

-under...lying... -Mm-hm.

structure to this.

Okay.

How can we quickly...

determine... whether that --

that's true or not?

You can ask yourself if you...

want to take something of what I'm saying

to see if it's useful to you...

Okay.

or if you want to spar with me.

If you don't want to spar with me,

we don't have to...

discuss the accuracy,

we just have to see...

if it's useful...

what I'm saying,

whether it's accurate or not.

I don't know how to do that.

I don't know that I've ever been...

devastated in any prior event

when that occurred...

including my birthday.

I didn't feel devastated.

You said "disappointed."

I was disappointed --

Okay, so go with that.

There.

A breakthrough.

[sighs]

♪curious tense music♪

[unintelligible whispering]

[whispering] All right.

[sighs]

What do you see?

♪♪♪

[Woman] It's a bird on a sign.

But the sign is broken.

I saw a bird too,

um, but I saw that it's an axe

trying to cut it.

I see a person...

over another person.

That's interesting.

I see a bird.

Huh.

♪♪♪

[Orna] So we have an hour together today.

Okay.

Let's see what we can do.

-Okay. -Okay?

So tell me.

Talk to me.

Why are you here?

What do you want to work on?

We are polar opposites.

But that...

in the beginning...

-was fantastic -- -Mm-hm.

because...

he calmed my noise

and I woke him up.

[laughs]

So it worked out.

So --

He calmed your noise

and you woke him up.

Yes.

That's beautiful.

-So it was perfect. -Uh-huh.

Um, fast-forward...

Mm-hm.

we -- we no longer speak the same language.

Um...

He misunderstands...

me, and I...

totally...

misunderstand him.

Wh-- which -- uh, in what way?

He'll placate me most of the time

just so that...

he doesn't...

have to engage in a conversation

because he thinks...

I'm gonna yell or scream

-or whatev-- -I think

you're gonna yell and scream?

-Or -- -I'm an intense individual

and that's the way I speak.

Okay.

-Uh -- -But it usually ends up

with you yelling and screaming.

Maybe we should get into a couple of examples.

A recent escalation or --

or some, like, uh --

an escalation that felt like "Ugh,

there we go again.

This is us doing that thing."

I sent him --

'cause I'm not allowed to call him

while he's at work,

so I text him...

and I texted him,

and I said, um --

Now we're getting into some --

Don't -- don't say it like that.

And so --

'Cause if you're not allowed to call

you break that rule.

'Cause you call all the time.

Give her the reason why you say that.

Because you don't want me calling you at work --

Why don't I want you calling me at work?

Because work is very important to you.

But why is it... import--

Why is it...that I...say to you?

You tell her why.

You tell her why.

Because --

She will call 20 times a day.

-Mm-hm. -Mm-hm.

-Alright? -Mm.

And she expects me to pick up

-20 times. -Mm-hm.

And every single time,

it's nothing important.

And if I don't answer that phone --

Well, I guess that it's important

just in the sense of establishing a connection.

We just spoke.

Mm-hm.

Well, people have different needs for, like --

But I'm busy.

Yeah, yeah.

-Mm-hm. -I-- It's not McDo--

I'm not working at, like,

-Wendy's or something. -Yeah, yeah.

Then when -- when she finally gets me...

this is how she greets me:

[angrily] "Where were you?"

Mm-hm.

[angrily] "What were you doing?"

I'm like, "Babe, I'm at work."

[angrily] "Why didn't you answer the phone?"

"All right, you got me now.

What's the emergency?"

[Orna] Mm-hm.

"Why didn't you answer

when I called?"

"Because I was busy?

-Maybe? -Mm-hm.

Give me the benefit of the doubt.

I'm at work, babe.

Is it possible that I could have been busy?

I'm not ignoring your calls."

What do you think about what Desean's saying?

I think Desean's...

uh...

main thing in life is work.

Mm-hm.

You know, it could be 9:30

and he's on his phone.

"What are you doing?" "Work. Email."

Whatever.

What do you do, Desean?

I'm an insurance broker.

[Orna] Mm-hm.

You know...

I've worked in places where...

CEOs answer the phone for their wives.

I'm not a CEO,

so maybe when I become a CEO,

-then you can start -- -My point is that...

there are people who have...

bigger jobs...

who...

-tend to their wives -- -Mm-hm.

or their significant other

or whatever that is, but...

for me, he's too busy.

We'll get up, right?

Get ready for work.

-I'm on the train. -Mm-hm.

Get a text.

"You know,

I've been thinking about something."

And this will --

this will carry on until we're at work.

But she's not, I don't know,

like, telling you her dream.

She's -- she's talking about something

-between the two -- -It could be that.

It could be that.

It could be just -- just --

It could be, "You know --

-"I want to talk to you." -I had this weird dre--"

I had this weird dre--" Yeah. Mm-hm.

And I'm like, "Babe, can this wait

'til I get home?"

I get home and n-- nothing.

'Cause I lost interest.

And then, I'm like --

I don't wanna talk to you now.

"All of that stuff

that you wanted to lay on me

when I was at work

-and I really couldn't -- -"Where is it?"

Where is it?

Now you have me,

now I'm engaged,

now I wanna...

engage in that,

but you don't want to give it to me now --

But you're saying

because you're already feeling...

hurt by then?

I feel like...

the -- the...

the thing to want to share it died.

I think her idea of...

-partnership... -Mm-hm.

is...

"Do as I say,

when I say, how I say it.

I wanna make her happy, but...

I've gotten to the point where I'm just like,

"It's impossible to make you happy."

♪grooving funk music♪

♪speaking foreign language♪

[unintelligible]

I know.

♪speaking foreign language♪

[unintelligible chatter]

[Orna] Hi. Hi.

Hello. Hey.

Come in.

-Great. -Great.

We've always talked about wanting kids.

Yes.

Like, since our third date

it was on the table.

And then...

kind of over the past few years,

it's been very all-over-the-place

as to the timeline.

-And -- -For example?

It would be...

five years out...

like, a couple years ago.

-Mm-hm. -And then --

six months...

later...

Sarah would be like, "I'm ready, I want --

-I want kids." -Mm-hm.

And then it would...

change ag-- I mean...

it went back and forth a lot.

Inner conflict.

-Sure. -I don't know.

We're all wingin' it out here.

Nobody knows.

[Orna] And that's, for you...

confusing, maybe crazy-making?

Very -- very confusing.

[Orna] Mm-hm.

We had had a...

later timeline...

and it just kind of, like...

got accelerated...

it felt like, without my input.

So, what made you wanna move faster...

and what made you feel reluctant?

[Lauren] Mm-hm.

For me, that was...

still a time period of intense...

instability.

Mm-hm.

I'm trans

and I began my transition

-when I was 27. -Mm-hm.

I think only over the past year

I think I've really...

come into my...

-self, and -- -Mm-hm.

have felt... stable...

within...

my personal identity --

-Yeah. -And...

wh-- where I'm...

-at as a human. -Mm-hm.

And so...

having a baby...

Could destabilize that.

Would ch-- change --

Suddenly, I'm a mom...

[Orna] Mm-hm.

And I had just... like...

really become a woman.

[Orna] Mm-hm.

And... [gulps]

that was scary.

Yeah.

Having a baby is, like...

the only thing that

I have known in my life

that I want...

-for sure. -Mm-hm.

I know I want a child,

I have known my whole life.

And so when she brought up all of these...

concerns...

I...

completely froze...

and I just felt

completely devastated...

because it felt like she was

taking this away from me.

Mm-hm.

And...

I felt like her concerns were valid...

but...

they weren't important enough

to take away the one thing that I want...

in this life.

And I knew -- I knew that she wasn't saying

"No, we can't have kids."

I knew that she was saying "Wait"...

but her concerns felt like...

concerns that you're gonna have forever.

And if you keep letting those concerns --

But if --

But -- but in a way...

whatever the argument you're making in your mind,

you could not --

because of the intensity of your wish...

you could not hold in mind Lauren's...

position as valid.

It just felt too threatening to...

your attachment to this...

potential baby.

Yeah, it didn't feel valid.

Yeah, you couldn't hold her as valid.

You said it felt selfish.

It did feel selfish

and I still think it sounds selfish. [laughs]

I think that those concerns are valid,

but it doesn't feel valid enough to, like,

kick it down the road...

further.

And so, in that fight...

I mean it lasted like three days.

-Mm-hm. -Yeah, it was pretty brutal.

-And -- -Enh, look, this is --

this is the kind of thing that's really difficult.

Yeah.

I mean, these kind of different...

timelines

on something so important...

that's a difficult one.

-Yeah, it was pretty scary. -Where are you?

[crying] Just feeling how I was feeling that day.

[Orna] Which is...

like all is lost?

Like, so heartbroken.

And, in retrospect...

I realize, like,

I was slipping into depression --

[Orna] Mm-hm.

and I was looking for anything

to look forward to.

Like the baby will somehow save you

from the depression.

And I know that's such a cliché,

but yeah, just planning.

-It's not a cliché. -Just knowing

-that it's coming -- -Yeah.

just knowing that I have to keep my shit together

so that I can be there for somebody.

Yeah.

And I feel like she was...

impeding my...

-healing. -Mm-hm.

Felt like a huge betrayal.

And I just felt like...

if you're gonna stop me from moving forward...

I don't know how this can continue.

[sniffs] I want some tissues.

There was a box of tissues...

[softly] Uh-oh.

Oh, no.

I don't know where it is.

Did you just make it worse?

-Yeah. -It's fine.

-Um... -I'm sorry.

It's fine.

I don't care.

You just have lots of it on you.

What have you done?

-[laughs] [sniffles] -It's better.

-Thank you. -There.

How are you feeling, Lauren,

about what Sarah is saying?

I mean...

I...wasn't going to just say "Yes."

I wasn't going to just bring...

a child into this world...

to fix this.

Right.

I'm not gonna...

bring a child in to fix something.

Mm-hm.

♪fast acoustic strumming♪

♪fingerpicking intensifies♪

Hi, dear.

[kiss]

Good to see you.

Good to see you.

♪♪♪

[Orna] I couldn't sleep last night.

Really overwhelming sense of responsibility.

I'm wondering more about the --

the state, your emotional state,

your mental state...

as you feel that way.

Maybe you can elaborate.

I was thinking...

how much is put on the...

notion of...

couple.

You know, and as a couple's therapist,

I'm, like...

I believe in it.

I believe that, ultimately,

it's a good thing for most people.

-Mm-hm. -Not for everyone,

but...

But I'm also kind of aware of the...

limit of...

how much it can deliver.

Another person will never be

what you're fantasizing

-them to be. -Yeah.

The fantasy is always gonna,

at some point, exceed...

-what's there. -Yeah.

[Orna] And then, there's a fight.

♪soft piano♪

And it's got nothin' to do with how I feel

or how we are or --

or any -- it's like --

it's always about what he has to do

and I'm...

so fed up.

God, I don't know why you're yelling

and I don't know why --

Because it is so fuckin' frustrating.

I am never, ever, ever, ever ...

-going to Austin -- -Okay, we got it.

No, we didn't,

'cause you won't let me talk.

Oh my, God, fuck you.

You just said that I have to follow you

down every dark path

because I trust you and I believe in you.

-And if I trust you -- -No, I didn't.

-Yes, you did! -Mm-hm.

Am I to...

never...

do anything...

because I've said no to you for this thing?

That's what it feels like.

It's ridiculous.

♪soft piano♪

[Orna] I feel like I have a lot of power over them...

so that's a little scary.

-Yeah. -The amount of responsibility

I have there.

Our job is to...

deepen their understanding of their...

-dilemma. -Mm-hm.

And nothing more.

It's not about should they work on it

or should they separate.

You have no opinion on that.

I...

just feel...

fed up and frustrated

and that I --

I don't want to do this anymore.

Mm-hm.

Deep down in my heart, like,

maybe it was too far gone already.

Mm-hm.

I know I'm supposed to take...

responsibility for

the things that I'm doing wrong,

but, like, it's her .

I just feel like she's never happy.

Like, it's always something with her.

That's your summary in your mind

of -- of why...

you're done?

Because she will never be happy?

In a nutshell, yeah.

Where are you?

[voice wavering] So, when he says to you...

that, oh, it's really about

me not being happy --

Mm-hm.

there's a reason for it.

It's not because I'm crazy.

Mm-hm.

It's because

there's a foundation

of saying one thing,

and then doing another thing.

Mm-hm.

And that's...

in a nutshell,

how you are with me.

I really don't feel like he...

wants to try to change or make things better...

and I feel like, deep down,

he doesn't know what he wants.

How much of this kind of...

"maybe it's time to...

separate," how much of that

is true for you?

Do you feel like you're 100% behind that?

Yes.

Yes?

Yes.

Mm-hm.

And you?

Yeah.

Okay.

-Have a good night. -Okay.

-Good night. -Bye.

-Hi. -Hi.

-Hi, welcome. -How are you?

-Hi! -Oh, hi!

Aw, how beautiful!

Oh, this is, like, the best surprise.

[laughter]

[Orna] I'm Orna.

Nice to meet you.

Evelyn.

-Evelyn. -Yes.

-Alan. -Alan.

-Pleasure. -Hi.

Orna.

Come in, have a seat.

So...

talk to me.

-Okay. -[laughter]

When Alan and I got together,

I feel like we always had, like,

the same idea...

♪bluesy electric guitar♪

♪My ears wide open♪

♪Yeah, I know you♪

♪You keep on talkin'♪

♪You talk about yourself♪

♪Sit quietly♪

♪Let's talk about me, me, me♪

♪Me, me, me♪

♪Let's talk about me, me, me♪

♪Me ♪

♪The world is my bed♪

♪I'll lie in your head♪

♪The kink in your neck♪

♪And the pit in your chest♪

♪I'm under your skin♪

♪I'm makin' you sweat♪

♪I'm getting what's mine♪

♪Don't need to be blessed♪

♪Let's talk about me, me, me♪

♪Me, me, me♪

♪Let's talk about me, me, me♪

♪Me, me, me♪

♪My eyes are open♪

♪I see through you♪

♪And all your problems♪

♪I'm sick of all your shh♪

♪It's long overdue♪

♪Let's talk about me, me, me♪

♪Me ♪

♪The world is my bed♪

♪I'll lie in your head♪

♪The kink in your neck♪

♪And the pit in your chest♪

♪I'm under your skin♪

♪I'm makin' you sweat♪

♪I'm getting what's mine♪

♪Don't need to be blessed♪

♪Let's talk about me, me, me♪

♪Me, me, me♪

♪Let's talk about me, me, me♪

♪Me, me, me♪

♪Me, me, me♪

♪Me, me, me♪

♪Me, me, me♪

♪Me, me, me♪

♪The world is my bed♪

♪I'll lie in your head♪

♪The kink in your neck and the...♪