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(TINKLY MUSIC)
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(MUSIC CONTINUES)
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00:00:29,750 --> 00:00:31,167
(STRING MUSIC)
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00:00:57,084 --> 00:00:58,667
(BASSY MUSIC)
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00:01:05,167 --> 00:01:06,667
(MUSIC CONTINUES)
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My name's David Farrier, and I'm
a journalist from New Zealand.
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Five years ago,
I started writing
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what I thought would be
a very simple quirky story.
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But here I am,
half a decade later,
10
00:01:27,500 --> 00:01:29,667
still trying to make
sense of it all.
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(BASSY MUSIC)
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I'm driving to an abandoned
psychiatric hospital
13
00:01:40,375 --> 00:01:41,917
in the middle of nowhere...
14
00:01:44,542 --> 00:01:47,792
which is funny, because I do
feel like I'm losing my mind.
15
00:01:50,417 --> 00:01:51,792
What's he doing in there?
16
00:01:58,292 --> 00:01:59,792
(MUSIC CONTINUES)
17
00:02:05,792 --> 00:02:07,875
I'm just gonna park
up where we were.
18
00:02:09,667 --> 00:02:11,750
Or further on.
19
00:02:13,375 --> 00:02:15,167
- I'm not going by them.
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00:02:15,167 --> 00:02:17,292
I don't even know who
I'm here to meet -
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00:02:19,042 --> 00:02:21,375
I just know that somewhere
in these crumbling buildings
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00:02:21,417 --> 00:02:23,459
lie the answers I need -
23
00:02:23,459 --> 00:02:25,042
at least that's what I hope.
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00:02:30,459 --> 00:02:32,709
- So, two people
got out and walked in.
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00:02:38,292 --> 00:02:40,042
- Can we see who is in that car?
— No.
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00:02:44,584 --> 00:02:46,209
What the fuck are you up to?
27
00:02:48,959 --> 00:02:50,959
(SIGHS)
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00:02:51,084 --> 00:02:52,667
(INTENSE MUSIC)
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00:02:57,959 --> 00:02:59,584
(BASSY MUSIC)
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(ENGINE REVS)
31
00:03:08,209 --> 00:03:09,959
(ENGINE REVS)
32
00:03:13,459 --> 00:03:15,459
I guess you could
call the city I live in
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the Beverly Hills
of New Zealand.
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00:03:18,209 --> 00:03:20,834
And on one of its most
expensive streets
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00:03:20,917 --> 00:03:24,292
sits this high-end antique
store, Bashford Antiques.
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00:03:25,667 --> 00:03:28,584
During the day,
it's quiet, uneventful;
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00:03:28,584 --> 00:03:30,959
blue skies and canoodling
pigeons.
38
00:03:34,584 --> 00:03:37,209
But as the sun sets,
and the store closes,...
39
00:03:40,417 --> 00:03:43,709
things get crazy outside.
40
00:03:44,709 --> 00:03:46,584
- You were given
every chance to pay.
41
00:03:46,584 --> 00:03:48,667
- We're trying to pay you money.
42
00:03:50,084 --> 00:03:52,084
You saw me go and get
the cash. You saw me.
43
00:03:52,084 --> 00:03:54,417
- I haven't seen
you get anything.
44
00:03:54,459 --> 00:03:57,542
- Yes, you did. You are a liar!
You saw me go and get the cash.
45
00:03:57,584 --> 00:03:59,709
- No, I saw you walk past here.
46
00:03:59,792 --> 00:04:01,709
- Excuse me.
- Yes, to go and get the cash,
47
00:04:01,792 --> 00:04:04,834
where you told me
the cashpoint was.
48
00:04:04,917 --> 00:04:08,209
- The owner of the antique
store is Jillian Bashford,
49
00:04:08,209 --> 00:04:10,709
and she's making a bold stand
50
00:04:10,709 --> 00:04:14,792
against anyone who dares
park outside when it's shut.
51
00:04:14,834 --> 00:04:17,084
- When I bought this
building over 15 years ago,
52
00:04:17,084 --> 00:04:20,209
there was no parking
issues round the area.
53
00:04:20,292 --> 00:04:21,834
Ah, how times have changed!
54
00:04:23,542 --> 00:04:25,459
People think they've got
a sense of entitlement
55
00:04:25,542 --> 00:04:27,792
to park in somebody's
private car park.
56
00:04:28,834 --> 00:04:31,375
- To fix the problem,
57
00:04:31,417 --> 00:04:34,292
she's hired a man to watch
her car park like a hawk.
58
00:04:36,250 --> 00:04:39,125
When people park there,
he waits till they walk away,
59
00:04:39,167 --> 00:04:40,667
then swoops, . . .
60
00:04:42,292 --> 00:04:44,292
Placing a clamp on their wheel
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00:04:44,292 --> 00:04:46,042
or blocking them
in with his van.
62
00:04:51,292 --> 00:04:52,667
- There was car parks.
- You are not...
63
00:04:52,750 --> 00:04:54,917
- When they come back,
the aggro begins.
64
00:04:56,125 --> 00:04:58,542
- I told the police that you-
- It's all right. Leave it-
65
00:04:58,625 --> 00:05:00,792
- ...were given every-
- You're an absolute crook.
66
00:05:00,875 --> 00:05:04,667
- Because it's private property,
this is fully legal.
67
00:05:04,667 --> 00:05:07,875
So if people want to leave,
they have to pay him.
68
00:05:07,917 --> 00:05:10,125
And I realised this car park is
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00:05:10,167 --> 00:05:13,417
quite the money-maker
for Bashford Antiques.
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00:05:13,417 --> 00:05:15,542
- I'm literally trying to
give you 400 bucks cash,
71
00:05:15,542 --> 00:05:17,167
which is what you asked for,
and you want to-
72
00:05:17,167 --> 00:05:19,792
- No, it is $760.
73
00:05:19,875 --> 00:05:22,292
- Oh my God.
74
00:05:22,292 --> 00:05:25,250
- Charging $760 for
half an hour's parking
75
00:05:25,292 --> 00:05:26,792
is ludicrous to me...
76
00:05:28,125 --> 00:05:31,667
so I start writing about Jillian
and her bonkers clamping.
77
00:05:32,792 --> 00:05:36,250
- You go to Westhaven,
you'll be clamped there too.
78
00:05:36,250 --> 00:05:37,667
- No problem.
And I'm willing to pay.
79
00:05:37,667 --> 00:05:40,417
- So go and park at Westhaven
and be clamped there.
80
00:05:40,417 --> 00:05:41,667
- Ooh!
- Ooh. (LAUGHS)
81
00:05:41,750 --> 00:05:43,167
- I know.
- Tale of a bully.
82
00:05:43,250 --> 00:05:46,792
- Pretty soon, she's on
the prime-time news.
83
00:05:46,875 --> 00:05:49,542
- This week, we heard that a
full-scale war was breaking out
84
00:05:49,542 --> 00:05:51,500
on the streets of an
Auckland suburb, and...
85
00:05:51,542 --> 00:05:54,542
- Diners told us they were being
preyed on by a wheel clamper,
86
00:05:54,667 --> 00:05:57,167
who was then demanding they
pay to get their vehicles back.
87
00:05:57,250 --> 00:05:59,375
- Hannah parked in front
of Bashford's Antiques
88
00:05:59,417 --> 00:06:00,917
on Williamson Ave.
89
00:06:01,042 --> 00:06:04,792
- Something in this
report gets my attention -
90
00:06:04,875 --> 00:06:08,917
I've seen Jillian and her
clamper together a lot now,
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00:06:08,917 --> 00:06:12,375
and yet here she is saying she
doesn't know anything about him.
92
00:06:12,375 --> 00:06:14,875
- I have nothing to
do with Premiere.
93
00:06:14,875 --> 00:06:18,042
They're purely the people
that do the clamping for me.
94
00:06:19,250 --> 00:06:22,417
- I don't understand why
she's lying about this,
95
00:06:22,417 --> 00:06:24,417
so I give her a call.
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00:06:24,417 --> 00:06:25,917
(PHONE LINE RINGS)
97
00:06:29,500 --> 00:06:31,542
- Oh, hey, Jillian.
It's David Farrier speaking.
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00:06:31,625 --> 00:06:33,792
- It's David Farrier.
99
00:06:33,792 --> 00:06:35,375
I'm a journalist
from The Spinoff.
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00:06:35,417 --> 00:06:37,667
- Yeah. Hi.
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00:06:40,792 --> 00:06:42,292
(PHONE LINE BEEPS)
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00:06:50,500 --> 00:06:52,125
- Where?
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00:06:55,042 --> 00:06:57,917
- Part of the reason why
we're...
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00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:01,000
- As their victims increase
into the hundreds...
105
00:07:02,167 --> 00:07:04,292
Jillian takes things up a notch.
106
00:07:09,042 --> 00:07:11,667
Her legal representatives
sends threats in all-caps
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to people who are
speaking out about it.
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They're signed by an MDA Organ.
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00:07:24,292 --> 00:07:26,750
I try and find him
to interview him,
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but there's no lawyer
with that name -
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00:07:29,417 --> 00:07:30,917
he doesn't exist.
112
00:07:34,750 --> 00:07:37,667
The only Organ I can
find is this Organ,
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00:07:37,667 --> 00:07:41,625
who once made headlines claiming
to be a blue-blooded prince.
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00:07:44,625 --> 00:07:46,125
I stare at the prince...
115
00:07:48,750 --> 00:07:50,917
and I see the clamper
staring back at me.
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00:07:54,917 --> 00:07:57,250
The prince,
the clamper and the lawyer;
117
00:07:58,875 --> 00:08:02,000
I think they're all the same
person - Michael Organ.
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00:08:05,542 --> 00:08:08,875
This is exactly my
kind of weird mess.
119
00:08:08,875 --> 00:08:12,667
I know there must be more
to this car-park terrorist.
120
00:08:12,750 --> 00:08:16,417
Something else is going on here,
and I want to find out what.
121
00:08:19,292 --> 00:08:20,667
(PHONE LINE RINGS)
122
00:08:25,417 --> 00:08:26,917
- Yes?
- Oh, hi.
123
00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:29,000
It's David Farrier speaking.
124
00:08:29,042 --> 00:08:32,042
I'm a journalist based in
Auckland. How are you doing?
125
00:08:32,042 --> 00:08:33,542
- I'm fine. I'm good.
- You're good.
126
00:08:33,542 --> 00:08:36,250
Hey, it's a bit of a random
call out of the blue -
127
00:08:36,292 --> 00:08:39,292
I'm looking into the background
of Michael Organ.
128
00:08:40,625 --> 00:08:42,417
- Oh, do me a favour.
129
00:08:42,500 --> 00:08:44,375
Now, you've asked me a
question about Michael Organ,
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00:08:44,417 --> 00:08:46,709
but I'm gonna ask you
to do me a quick favour,
131
00:08:46,709 --> 00:08:48,334
and you're gonna answer this
very, very quickly for me,
132
00:08:48,417 --> 00:08:51,167
straight off the bat.
When were you born?
133
00:08:51,209 --> 00:08:53,834
- I was born on
Christmas Day, '82.
134
00:08:53,834 --> 00:08:56,834
- Nice one. You are
David Farrier. OK.
135
00:08:56,834 --> 00:08:58,834
The reason why I ask
you that is because
136
00:08:58,834 --> 00:09:00,667
this is something that
Michael would do,
137
00:09:00,709 --> 00:09:04,292
so you'll forgive me if had to
check you there a little bit.
138
00:09:04,334 --> 00:09:07,209
- This paranoid voice
belongs to Jazz,
139
00:09:07,292 --> 00:09:09,834
a man who lived with
Organ in the late '90s.
140
00:09:09,959 --> 00:09:12,292
- Yeah. Um...
- I was just wondering if you'd
141
00:09:12,334 --> 00:09:14,459
talk me through, like,
the day-to-day of, like,
142
00:09:14,459 --> 00:09:17,292
living in that place.
- (SIGHS) Man. It was hell.
143
00:09:18,417 --> 00:09:21,334
Every single day with
Michael Organ is like hell.
144
00:09:23,334 --> 00:09:25,459
Um, it's like
high-velocity hell.
145
00:09:25,459 --> 00:09:26,584
He's the kind of guy that
146
00:09:26,584 --> 00:09:28,209
if you're talking to
him for 10 minutes,
147
00:09:28,292 --> 00:09:30,542
that 10 minutes will
turn into 10 hours.
148
00:09:30,542 --> 00:09:32,084
And it's not a good 10 hours.
149
00:09:35,209 --> 00:09:39,209
- I'd already heard of Michael
before I moved into this flat.
150
00:09:39,209 --> 00:09:40,709
- What had you heard?
151
00:09:42,209 --> 00:09:43,667
- Nothing nice. (LAUGHS)
152
00:09:45,584 --> 00:09:48,459
It all was a bit, sort of,
like... you know, like,
153
00:09:48,459 --> 00:09:50,917
urban legend,
154
00:09:50,959 --> 00:09:54,084
um, that this man
was a Satanist and,
155
00:09:54,167 --> 00:09:56,709
uh, part of the Knights Templar
156
00:09:56,709 --> 00:10:00,209
and he was dangerous and he
could put curses on you and...
157
00:10:00,209 --> 00:10:03,292
um, and that he was
part of a fraud ring
158
00:10:03,292 --> 00:10:05,584
and all sorts of
things like that.
159
00:10:05,667 --> 00:10:08,834
You know, like, there was just
all these stories about him.
160
00:10:08,834 --> 00:10:12,542
- But because of the stories and
the speed that he's doing it,
161
00:10:12,584 --> 00:10:16,334
he kind of captures you into
it, and you kind of get...
162
00:10:16,334 --> 00:10:18,834
you know, you kind of get
taken along for the ride.
163
00:10:18,834 --> 00:10:21,334
It's like being in love.
You know,
164
00:10:21,334 --> 00:10:22,667
a lot of people go through
it - you're in love,
165
00:10:22,709 --> 00:10:25,417
and you don't realise just
how bad the relationship is,
166
00:10:25,459 --> 00:10:27,709
until you step away
from it, cos you're in it.
167
00:10:27,709 --> 00:10:31,459
Once you step away from it,
you realise how crazy... shit got.
168
00:10:34,209 --> 00:10:36,209
- There's clearly more
to Michael Organ
169
00:10:36,209 --> 00:10:39,209
than just being
a vindictive clamper.
170
00:10:39,292 --> 00:10:41,792
When he was living
with Jazz in the '90s,
171
00:10:41,834 --> 00:10:43,667
Organ ran a sex
shop called Taboo.
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00:10:45,917 --> 00:10:49,334
When he stopped paying rent,
the landlord changed the locks,
173
00:10:49,334 --> 00:10:52,084
evicting him.
174
00:10:52,084 --> 00:10:55,792
Organ wasn't happy and decided
he'd get back at the landlord.
175
00:10:56,834 --> 00:10:58,667
This is the landlord, Rene Dunn.
176
00:11:01,292 --> 00:11:03,334
He's sitting on his
yacht, the Matia.
177
00:11:05,084 --> 00:11:06,709
- So, you know, revenge sets in.
178
00:11:08,334 --> 00:11:11,459
So he's got Matia in his sights.
179
00:11:11,459 --> 00:11:14,667
And it was... you know, it was
tied up to the pole mooring,
180
00:11:14,667 --> 00:11:16,459
and one night,
181
00:11:16,459 --> 00:11:19,084
Michael Organ went aboard
the boat and tried to steal it.
182
00:11:19,084 --> 00:11:22,292
You know, I mean, you can't
just steal a boat. Right?
183
00:11:22,334 --> 00:11:23,834
But this is the
gall of the guy -
184
00:11:25,084 --> 00:11:27,334
he tried to do it.
185
00:11:27,334 --> 00:11:30,542
And the only reason
why it failed
186
00:11:31,417 --> 00:11:33,709
is because Jamie Lockett
threw him off.
187
00:11:36,584 --> 00:11:40,084
- I was not expecting Jamie
Lockett to be a part of this.
188
00:11:40,084 --> 00:11:43,084
Jamie hit the headlines in 2007,
189
00:11:43,084 --> 00:11:45,959
when police accused
him of being a terrorist.
190
00:11:45,959 --> 00:11:48,584
- This is the man police
alleged talked of training
191
00:11:48,667 --> 00:11:52,334
for guerrilla warfare and taking
out white men with no manners.
192
00:11:52,334 --> 00:11:54,459
- He's known to be
an intimidating man,
193
00:11:55,459 --> 00:11:58,834
which is why I'm a little
nervous to meet him.
194
00:11:58,834 --> 00:12:01,292
He lives three hours
north, off the grid,
195
00:12:01,334 --> 00:12:02,834
moving from house to house.
196
00:12:04,459 --> 00:12:08,209
The fact he was somehow involved
in this story had me curious.
197
00:12:08,209 --> 00:12:10,459
- Jamie.
198
00:12:10,792 --> 00:12:11,792
- How are you?
199
00:12:13,959 --> 00:12:14,459
Sorry?
200
00:12:15,209 --> 00:12:16,417
Oh, we'll go down.
That's all right.
201
00:12:16,459 --> 00:12:18,209
- Yep.
- Nice to meet you, sir.
202
00:12:18,292 --> 00:12:19,834
How are you going?
203
00:12:23,542 --> 00:12:26,834
- Rene came to see me and said,
'Jamie, you know, we've found
204
00:12:26,834 --> 00:12:30,667
'the boat. It's in Westhaven.
We want you to get it back.'
205
00:12:30,667 --> 00:12:33,209
Yeah, Rene had organized,
another yacht, a friend's yacht,
206
00:12:33,209 --> 00:12:35,417
where we all were on that,
207
00:12:35,459 --> 00:12:37,542
and we cut the motor
about a kilometer away
208
00:12:37,584 --> 00:12:41,084
and just cruised in
in the early morning,
209
00:12:41,084 --> 00:12:42,667
so you couldn't even hear
us coming. And, of course,
210
00:12:42,709 --> 00:12:45,834
I did my old Bruce Lee
jump on to the boat...
211
00:12:48,584 --> 00:12:51,834
and just went downstairs,
and there was Michael Organe.
212
00:12:53,459 --> 00:12:56,834
He just couldn't believe me
coming down the companionway.
213
00:12:56,834 --> 00:12:58,834
So, he had a phone in one
hand...
214
00:12:58,834 --> 00:13:01,209
and, um...
215
00:13:01,209 --> 00:13:03,667
he started trying to
call somebody,
216
00:13:03,667 --> 00:13:06,167
so I just knocked the
phone out of his hand.
217
00:13:06,209 --> 00:13:09,209
And pretty well just...
218
00:13:09,292 --> 00:13:11,792
you know, cos I've
been doing this all my life.
219
00:13:14,834 --> 00:13:18,292
OK? That's what karate's
all about. And so...
220
00:13:18,292 --> 00:13:20,459
what you do,
in situations like that,
221
00:13:20,542 --> 00:13:23,167
when I have to manhandle
another human being,
222
00:13:23,209 --> 00:13:25,209
now, if they've got
hair on their head,
223
00:13:25,209 --> 00:13:27,084
I'll come in and grab
their head, their hair.
224
00:13:27,084 --> 00:13:29,667
- Right.
- And cos this is so strong,
225
00:13:29,667 --> 00:13:32,834
that I actually can
pull the skin up tight,
226
00:13:32,834 --> 00:13:35,709
and the brain goes into a...
like, into a zombie mode.
227
00:13:35,709 --> 00:13:38,334
So I come in and just
go... (WHOOSHES)
228
00:13:38,334 --> 00:13:40,917
On his head, and I've got it.
229
00:13:40,917 --> 00:13:43,667
So I had him in my... you know,
I had him in my grip.
230
00:13:43,667 --> 00:13:47,209
And he's just gone
into an instant fright.
231
00:13:47,209 --> 00:13:49,959
So I then have to
manhandle him...
232
00:13:49,959 --> 00:13:53,417
cos he can't manhandle - he's in
a... the whole body's stopped,
233
00:13:53,459 --> 00:13:55,792
cos I've got his - this here;
this here's so tight,
234
00:13:55,792 --> 00:13:58,584
and for good measure,
I just did a nice, uh...
235
00:13:59,584 --> 00:14:03,417
heel, uh, kick on his phone,
and that broke,
236
00:14:03,459 --> 00:14:07,042
which is probably I shouldn't
have done that, but, you know...
237
00:14:07,084 --> 00:14:09,417
So I got Organe...
into the dinghy.
238
00:14:09,459 --> 00:14:11,459
We even provided a dinghy...
239
00:14:12,709 --> 00:14:16,459
just in case he didn't have one,
which I don't think he did.
240
00:14:16,459 --> 00:14:19,459
So we had our own dinghy, and
I put Organe into the dinghy,
241
00:14:19,459 --> 00:14:21,167
and I looked him in
the eyes, and I said,
242
00:14:21,209 --> 00:14:22,834
'Don't speak.'
243
00:14:24,709 --> 00:14:26,542
And then we saw all the police
cars going over the bumpity
244
00:14:26,584 --> 00:14:29,209
bumps down Westhaven. (LAUGHS)
245
00:14:29,209 --> 00:14:31,459
There was about eight
of them. (LAUGHS)
246
00:14:34,292 --> 00:14:36,959
So, you know,
I'd committed no of fence.
247
00:14:37,042 --> 00:14:38,667
I got him out of the boat, um...
248
00:14:40,459 --> 00:14:42,459
I actually accidentally stood
on his cell phone, I suppose.
249
00:14:42,459 --> 00:14:45,709
But, you know, besides
that, I used, um...
250
00:14:45,709 --> 00:14:48,334
not excessive force to
get him off that boat,
251
00:14:48,417 --> 00:14:50,334
and I got him off
that boat quickly.
252
00:14:52,417 --> 00:14:54,459
No mucking around.
That's why, you know,
253
00:14:54,542 --> 00:14:56,542
Rene wanted me to do it.
254
00:14:56,584 --> 00:14:59,042
I don't think anybody else could
have done it like I did it.
255
00:14:59,084 --> 00:15:02,084
You should have seen him. He was
running up the A Pier screaming,
256
00:15:02,084 --> 00:15:03,959
'Argh!' in his underpants.
(LAUGHS)
257
00:15:08,292 --> 00:15:10,334
- Michael was sentenced
to three years in prison
258
00:15:10,334 --> 00:15:11,834
for stealing the Matia.
259
00:15:14,834 --> 00:15:18,334
This is the article that got
me hooked on Michael -
260
00:15:18,417 --> 00:15:20,709
the one that also mentioned
he was a prince.
261
00:15:24,459 --> 00:15:26,917
Well, the thing is,
Michael Organ
262
00:15:26,959 --> 00:15:30,584
is constantly doing wildly
strange things with his name.
263
00:15:31,667 --> 00:15:33,792
He often misspells
his first name.
264
00:15:35,959 --> 00:15:39,584
But then he gets more elaborate,
claiming to be a prince,
265
00:15:40,834 --> 00:15:42,834
sometimes a count.
266
00:15:42,834 --> 00:15:44,334
(CONTEMPLATIVE MUSIC)
267
00:15:52,834 --> 00:15:55,917
I know about this because
he's doing it all in court,...
268
00:15:55,959 --> 00:15:58,084
a lot.
269
00:15:58,084 --> 00:16:00,709
- He, uh,
270
00:16:00,709 --> 00:16:04,667
arrived with a big box, and it
was very, very important.
271
00:16:04,709 --> 00:16:07,417
It was held out as if to say,
'I'm very, very important.
272
00:16:07,459 --> 00:16:09,584
'Be careful with this.'
You know?
273
00:16:09,667 --> 00:16:12,084
Uh, and at the appropriate
time in the case,
274
00:16:13,459 --> 00:16:16,584
when he was trying to drive
home how important he was,
275
00:16:16,667 --> 00:16:19,709
he opened up the box
and presented a crown
276
00:16:19,834 --> 00:16:22,417
and said that it was
given to him by royalty
277
00:16:22,459 --> 00:16:25,084
and he's dined with royalty
and...
278
00:16:25,084 --> 00:16:27,584
- Did he pop the crown on
his head in the courtroom?
279
00:16:27,667 --> 00:16:29,542
Or just hold it?
- I don't think he actually got
280
00:16:29,584 --> 00:16:31,584
to the point where
he was allowed to,
281
00:16:31,667 --> 00:16:34,834
because I think the judge almost
instantly said, 'Put it away.'
282
00:16:34,917 --> 00:16:37,209
You know, she just...
283
00:16:37,209 --> 00:16:40,084
The ending of the case
was the interesting bit,
284
00:16:40,084 --> 00:16:41,917
because she said to Michael...
285
00:16:43,459 --> 00:16:46,584
uh, 'I'm going to ask
you to leave first.
286
00:16:46,667 --> 00:16:49,209
'And I'm going to
walk you to the elevator,
287
00:16:49,292 --> 00:16:51,042
'and I'm going to
watch you go down.'
288
00:16:52,334 --> 00:16:54,334
So I thought, 'Ooh, that's...
289
00:16:55,834 --> 00:16:58,834
'odd, interesting.'
So she walked out,
290
00:16:58,834 --> 00:17:01,459
and John and I were sitting
there alone for a few minutes.
291
00:17:01,542 --> 00:17:04,334
And I thought, 'OK.
I wonder why that was.'
292
00:17:04,334 --> 00:17:06,417
And then she came back
into the room and said,
293
00:17:06,417 --> 00:17:08,709
'I'm sorry about that.
294
00:17:08,709 --> 00:17:12,292
'Michael Organ might
not have recognised me,
295
00:17:12,292 --> 00:17:14,459
'but I most certainly
recognised him.'
296
00:17:15,959 --> 00:17:19,542
And she advised that we, not
just walk out of there, but run.
297
00:17:19,625 --> 00:17:22,125
And she said,
'Don't ever look back.
298
00:17:22,167 --> 00:17:25,500
'Don't ever have anything
to do with that man again.'
299
00:17:28,542 --> 00:17:31,750
- I wonder if I should listen
to the judge's advice.
300
00:17:31,792 --> 00:17:34,625
The fact Michael's known
to the legal system here
301
00:17:34,625 --> 00:17:38,042
speaks volumes - he's obviously
a litigious nightmare.
302
00:17:39,542 --> 00:17:42,542
But not because he's
a lawyer - he's not.
303
00:17:42,625 --> 00:17:44,917
I've checked his
legal qualifications,
304
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:46,417
and he doesn't have any.
305
00:17:48,792 --> 00:17:52,417
But that doesn't stop him
acting like he's a lawyer.
306
00:17:52,417 --> 00:17:54,042
And as I look through
other cases Michael's
307
00:17:54,125 --> 00:17:56,667
been involved in,
308
00:17:56,750 --> 00:17:59,875
I can't help but think of his
behaviour clamping cars.
309
00:18:01,542 --> 00:18:04,792
- The problem with Michael
is once he gets on to you,
310
00:18:04,875 --> 00:18:07,375
he won't let go.
311
00:18:07,417 --> 00:18:11,292
— If he perceives someone's
giving you information,
312
00:18:11,292 --> 00:18:14,417
if he gets any inkling of who
it might be or whatever,
313
00:18:14,417 --> 00:18:16,417
I'll tell you what -
he'll go after them.
314
00:18:16,500 --> 00:18:18,875
- Are you there?
- Yes. Hello.
315
00:18:18,917 --> 00:18:20,792
- There you are. What do
you wanna talk about tonight?
316
00:18:20,792 --> 00:18:24,042
- Well, my name is Michael
Organ, and I'm, um,
317
00:18:24,042 --> 00:18:26,042
the chap who's been, um,
318
00:18:26,042 --> 00:18:28,167
cited in the media,
319
00:18:28,167 --> 00:18:30,792
um, in regards to the
clamping in Ponsonby —
320
00:18:32,167 --> 00:18:35,042
the journalist, David Farrier.
321
00:18:35,042 --> 00:18:38,042
- He's calling talk back radio
about his bonkers clamping,
322
00:18:38,042 --> 00:18:40,042
and he's read my articles.
323
00:18:40,042 --> 00:18:41,917
- With clamping,
there are no real rules.
324
00:18:42,042 --> 00:18:43,917
And in your situation,
325
00:18:43,917 --> 00:18:47,417
you were basically allowed
to do whatever you liked.
326
00:18:47,417 --> 00:18:50,792
And what I'm saying-
- No, no, no, no. Jeremy, no.
327
00:18:50,792 --> 00:18:53,125
We- We- We- No, no.
- ...on your property, you can-
328
00:18:53,167 --> 00:18:55,000
— Farrier - and this is
one of the things-
329
00:18:55,042 --> 00:18:57,292
_ NO-
- ...that we have considered-
330
00:18:57,292 --> 00:18:59,792
And it's a matter of record.
331
00:18:59,875 --> 00:19:01,667
- So the very first time- Hold
on, mate. Hold on. Hold on.
332
00:19:01,667 --> 00:19:04,417
Hold on.
- We have proof of that.
333
00:19:04,417 --> 00:19:07,292
- The very first time
you clamped someone -
334
00:19:07,375 --> 00:19:09,542
not the 50th time or
the hundredth time,
335
00:19:09,542 --> 00:19:12,667
or the fourth time David Farrier
did an article on you —
336
00:19:12,667 --> 00:19:15,000
the very first time.
- Every single time.
337
00:19:18,792 --> 00:19:21,792
- The $760 for half an
hour of illicit car parking.
338
00:19:22,667 --> 00:19:26,417
- Uncontrolled, um, exorbitant,
339
00:19:26,417 --> 00:19:29,875
uh, and sometimes
intimidating behaviour.
340
00:19:29,917 --> 00:19:33,292
- Bashford Antiques,
they were called.
341
00:19:33,375 --> 00:19:36,875
- Thanks, in part, to Jillian's
extreme stance on clamping,
342
00:19:36,875 --> 00:19:38,542
Parliament is now debating
343
00:19:38,542 --> 00:19:40,417
whether the law
should be changed.
344
00:19:40,417 --> 00:19:42,542
- I just simply can't get
345
00:19:42,542 --> 00:19:44,250
my head around
that sort of practice
346
00:19:44,250 --> 00:19:46,042
and that sort of behaviour.
347
00:19:46,042 --> 00:19:48,042
And it is time to
bring an end to it.
348
00:19:48,125 --> 00:19:50,542
- The question is that
the motion be agreed to.
349
00:19:50,625 --> 00:19:52,625
Those of that opinion
will say 'aye'.
350
00:19:52,667 --> 00:19:54,667
- MPs: Aye.
- To the contrary, no.
351
00:19:54,750 --> 00:19:56,250
The ayes have it.
352
00:19:57,792 --> 00:19:59,292
- No more clamping...
353
00:20:00,417 --> 00:20:01,917
and no more Bashfords -
354
00:20:06,292 --> 00:20:09,500
the clamping mania has
scared a lot of people away,
355
00:20:09,542 --> 00:20:11,667
and Jillian shuts the shop down.
356
00:20:16,042 --> 00:20:18,250
All that's left behind
is the old sign.
357
00:20:20,792 --> 00:20:23,292
I take it home as a memento
to the madness.
358
00:20:25,417 --> 00:20:28,042
I guess this is my final
piece, the eulogy...
359
00:20:30,042 --> 00:20:33,917
but my mistake -
Bashfords isn't dead.
360
00:20:33,917 --> 00:20:36,167
- You're talking to me about
allegation of the theft of
361
00:20:36,167 --> 00:20:38,792
business signs from
Bashford Antiques,
362
00:20:38,792 --> 00:20:41,667
and that these are your rights
here that I need to read you.
363
00:20:41,667 --> 00:20:44,042
So you have the
right to remain silent.
364
00:20:44,042 --> 00:20:45,792
You do not have to
make any statement.
365
00:20:45,875 --> 00:20:47,417
Anything you say
will be recorded
366
00:20:47,417 --> 00:20:48,750
and may be given in evidence.
367
00:20:48,792 --> 00:20:51,792
- It looks like Jillian wants
me charged with theft.
368
00:20:52,917 --> 00:20:56,375
This is fucking crazy,
because the sign was just trash
369
00:20:56,417 --> 00:20:58,167
for a store that
no longer exists.
370
00:20:59,792 --> 00:21:02,375
Then I get a court
summons from Jillian.
371
00:21:02,375 --> 00:21:03,917
She's taking legal action.
372
00:21:04,667 --> 00:21:07,250
It's so ridiculous,
373
00:21:07,250 --> 00:21:09,750
because the broken old things
are just under my house -
374
00:21:09,792 --> 00:21:12,292
I could've just given them back.
375
00:21:12,292 --> 00:21:14,292
Reading her court filing,
376
00:21:14,292 --> 00:21:16,500
Jillian says we've met
to talk about all this,
377
00:21:16,542 --> 00:21:18,875
but we've never met.
378
00:21:18,875 --> 00:21:20,500
I tried calling her
when all this started,
379
00:21:20,542 --> 00:21:22,792
but she just hung up.
380
00:21:25,292 --> 00:21:27,750
(PHONE LINE BEEPS)
381
00:21:27,750 --> 00:21:30,917
- I don't understand
why Jillian is doing this,
382
00:21:30,917 --> 00:21:32,667
going to all these extremes.
383
00:21:33,667 --> 00:21:35,750
And I wonder if it's really
her...
384
00:21:37,375 --> 00:21:39,042
or if something
else is going on.
385
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,417
When Michael stole that yacht,
he had an accomplice -
386
00:21:46,417 --> 00:21:48,000
someone he'd moved in with;
387
00:21:50,042 --> 00:21:52,167
someone he had
made forge documents
388
00:21:52,292 --> 00:21:55,250
to make it look like
Michael Organ owned the boat.
389
00:21:58,167 --> 00:22:01,292
- He was persistently
gaslighting me...
390
00:22:02,917 --> 00:22:05,375
and everything I did was wrong.
391
00:22:05,375 --> 00:22:07,875
There was a, sort of a...
you know, I was forever being...
392
00:22:07,875 --> 00:22:09,417
Um, it was like, uh...
393
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,542
Uh, I felt as though I was
groomed to begin with.
394
00:22:14,542 --> 00:22:17,417
- So you're saying it was a
really calculated decision by
395
00:22:17,500 --> 00:22:20,917
him to really get into your
life and groom you in that way?
396
00:22:20,917 --> 00:22:23,292
- You couldn't think -
397
00:22:23,292 --> 00:22:27,042
I couldn't, and when
you're under that stress,
398
00:22:27,042 --> 00:22:28,667
in that situation, you can't
make sensible decisions.
399
00:22:32,375 --> 00:22:34,042
That's what was getting to me -
400
00:22:36,250 --> 00:22:39,792
I couldn't be the master
of my own destiny.
401
00:22:39,875 --> 00:22:42,917
I mean, that's the
worst space to be in.
402
00:22:43,917 --> 00:22:46,250
It was really getting
me down. I had...
403
00:22:48,042 --> 00:22:50,917
one or two people I could talk
to over this. And, of course,
404
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,792
Michael was trying to separate
me from my friends; like,
405
00:22:54,875 --> 00:22:58,042
some of them were
prohibited from visiting.
406
00:22:58,042 --> 00:23:01,042
He nagged at me one day to...
407
00:23:01,125 --> 00:23:04,042
to help him forge a
signature on a contract.
408
00:23:06,875 --> 00:23:08,167
I was in such a space then,
409
00:23:09,167 --> 00:23:11,875
I would just do anything
to keep him quiet.
410
00:23:12,917 --> 00:23:15,167
I just said, 'Oh well.
If this'll shut him up for...
411
00:23:15,250 --> 00:23:17,417
'you know, for half
a day, it's worth it.'
412
00:23:19,917 --> 00:23:22,875
- When Organ got arrested,
Simon went down with him.
413
00:23:25,042 --> 00:23:27,875
- It was just my darkest time.
414
00:23:27,875 --> 00:23:31,250
All the other parts of my life
that were dark, you know,
415
00:23:31,292 --> 00:23:34,042
sort of, watching the
parents die or whatever;
416
00:23:35,375 --> 00:23:38,292
but, no, this was a dark year.
It was a tough year.
417
00:23:41,292 --> 00:23:43,292
I'm glad that the...
418
00:23:43,292 --> 00:23:47,000
yacht theft happened,
419
00:23:47,042 --> 00:23:48,500
because that gave me an out.
420
00:23:49,625 --> 00:23:51,292
It was the price I had to pay.
421
00:23:52,542 --> 00:23:56,167
Um, yes. Being arrested,
422
00:23:56,250 --> 00:23:59,000
sitting in a jail cell,
doing my community service -
423
00:23:59,042 --> 00:24:01,417
that's what I had to go through
424
00:24:01,417 --> 00:24:04,417
to... to, uh, get away from it-
425
00:24:04,417 --> 00:24:05,917
get away from him.
426
00:24:08,292 --> 00:24:11,167
I was surprised he
was let out so soon.
427
00:24:11,250 --> 00:24:14,500
He... I remember
coming to a traffic...
428
00:24:14,542 --> 00:24:17,042
you know, a pedestrian crossing,
and there he was,
429
00:24:17,042 --> 00:24:20,667
across the street,
sort of making this gesture.
430
00:24:20,750 --> 00:24:24,375
And I went like this - I went,
'Oh my... I don't believe it.'
431
00:24:26,167 --> 00:24:29,625
- It's clear to me that Michael
Organ really affects people -
432
00:24:29,667 --> 00:24:31,917
he can tunnel into their lives,
433
00:24:31,917 --> 00:24:33,625
draw them into his schemes.
434
00:24:35,042 --> 00:24:36,917
And he refuses
to let anything go.
435
00:24:39,542 --> 00:24:41,500
OK. So, I'm walking down
the side of my house,
436
00:24:41,542 --> 00:24:43,042
which is where...
437
00:24:45,292 --> 00:24:47,875
you get to the, uh,
underside of our house.
438
00:24:50,042 --> 00:24:51,875
And up until two days ago...
439
00:24:53,750 --> 00:24:56,042
uh, the Bashford Antiques
signs were...
440
00:24:58,250 --> 00:24:59,917
right there.
441
00:25:01,292 --> 00:25:02,792
And they're gone.
442
00:25:06,250 --> 00:25:08,417
Just in time for my
court appearance,
443
00:25:08,417 --> 00:25:11,417
the signs have gone missing
from under my house.
444
00:25:14,292 --> 00:25:16,750
It's a six-hour drive
to Whanganui,
445
00:25:16,792 --> 00:25:19,542
a small town in the
middle of nowhere.
446
00:25:19,542 --> 00:25:21,292
(INTENSE ELECTRONIC MUSIC)
447
00:25:28,417 --> 00:25:31,167
This is where Jillian
filed her legal papers,
448
00:25:31,250 --> 00:25:32,625
so it's where I have to go.
449
00:25:35,250 --> 00:25:37,292
As I wait outside court,
450
00:25:37,292 --> 00:25:38,667
a figure appears.
451
00:25:39,292 --> 00:25:40,667
(MUSIC CONTINUES)
452
00:25:47,167 --> 00:25:50,792
It's the man I've been
learning so much about;
453
00:25:50,792 --> 00:25:53,667
the clamper, the prince,
the yacht thief -
454
00:25:53,667 --> 00:25:55,292
Michael Organ.
455
00:25:57,375 --> 00:26:00,417
He's not the disheveled
man I saw clamping cars -
456
00:26:00,500 --> 00:26:04,167
he's now in a velvet
suit and deadly serious,
457
00:26:04,250 --> 00:26:06,542
arguing the signs
I took weren't rubbish,
458
00:26:06,542 --> 00:26:08,042
but precious and valuable.
459
00:26:10,125 --> 00:26:12,542
He talks for hours.
460
00:26:12,542 --> 00:26:15,250
He's incredibly comfortable
in the courtroom,
461
00:26:15,250 --> 00:26:17,375
and despite not being a lawyer,
462
00:26:17,417 --> 00:26:20,792
he absolutely wipes
the floor with me.
463
00:26:20,875 --> 00:26:23,000
Because those signs
vanished into thin air,
464
00:26:23,042 --> 00:26:25,000
I can't give them back,
465
00:26:25,042 --> 00:26:27,250
and so I lose the case.
466
00:26:27,292 --> 00:26:30,417
And I'm ordered to
pay nearly $3000...
467
00:26:30,500 --> 00:26:32,125
for these.
468
00:26:39,042 --> 00:26:41,667
- RADIO: Thank you, Anna.
- (LAUGHS) Thanks. Bye.
469
00:26:41,667 --> 00:26:44,042
- Cheers. Bye. Oh, it's gonna be
hard to beat that.
470
00:26:44,125 --> 00:26:46,042
- Hi, Mike, good morning.
471
00:26:51,500 --> 00:26:53,292
- So Michael's a director at
472
00:26:53,375 --> 00:26:56,542
Jillian's now non-existent
antique store,
473
00:26:56,625 --> 00:26:59,667
and he's back on talk back radio,
gloating that he beat me.
474
00:26:59,750 --> 00:27:03,042
- RADIO: Now, this is clamp -
the clamping of people's wheels?
475
00:27:30,875 --> 00:27:34,042
- Yeah. Now, because this is
before the courts and it's-
476
00:27:34,042 --> 00:27:36,417
- Well,
477
00:27:36,500 --> 00:27:38,375
can we just get away from-?
Hey, Mike, Mike,
478
00:27:38,417 --> 00:27:40,167
can we just get away
from David Farrier -
479
00:27:40,167 --> 00:27:42,292
you wanna talk about
clamping in general?
480
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,417
- I stay in town for a few days,
481
00:27:55,417 --> 00:27:59,375
to try and figure out what this
unlikely pair is doing together.
482
00:28:01,667 --> 00:28:04,250
When Jillian moved
to this small town,
483
00:28:04,250 --> 00:28:07,042
she bought this beautiful
old bank building.
484
00:28:07,042 --> 00:28:09,417
But who's got the keys?
Michael Organ.
485
00:28:12,292 --> 00:28:14,250
Where he goes,
486
00:28:14,250 --> 00:28:16,167
she follows.
487
00:28:16,250 --> 00:28:17,875
(INTENSE MUSIC)
488
00:28:23,417 --> 00:28:25,875
At this point, it's clear
to me that the clamper
489
00:28:25,875 --> 00:28:29,917
she once denied knowing
is deeply involved in her life.
490
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:31,417
(MUSIC CONTINUES)
491
00:28:37,250 --> 00:28:39,292
- Yeah?
492
00:28:39,375 --> 00:28:40,875
- What?
- They're there.
493
00:28:43,292 --> 00:28:45,500
- They're right across the road.
- OK.
494
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,417
I need answers,
495
00:28:52,417 --> 00:28:56,417
so I invite him to
my hotel to talk.
496
00:28:56,417 --> 00:28:59,667
For the last year,
he's refused to speak to me.
497
00:28:59,667 --> 00:29:02,125
That courtroom was the
first time I'd met him,
498
00:29:02,167 --> 00:29:04,417
and all I got was animosity.
499
00:29:04,417 --> 00:29:07,000
I figure there's no
way he'll turn up.
500
00:29:07,042 --> 00:29:08,625
But then...
501
00:29:10,667 --> 00:29:13,292
meet Prince Organe-ski.
502
00:29:13,292 --> 00:29:15,667
- I was furious, cos I had my
hair coloured this morning,
503
00:29:15,667 --> 00:29:18,292
and the guy said,
'I'll do your beard.'
504
00:29:18,292 --> 00:29:20,542
And I've never
had it done before,
505
00:29:20,625 --> 00:29:24,167
and he left all this residue,
which is visible.
506
00:29:24,167 --> 00:29:27,417
So if you want to save me
from being embarrassed,
507
00:29:27,417 --> 00:29:28,875
don't come in on my
face from this side.
508
00:29:28,917 --> 00:29:31,500
- Can I plug it in in the spare
room, inside? Or do you...?
509
00:29:31,542 --> 00:29:33,417
- You're doing a bloody feed.
- JILLIAN: Do you want to record
510
00:29:33,417 --> 00:29:35,417
- anything?
- MICHAEL: No, no. It's fine.
511
00:29:35,417 --> 00:29:38,375
- Yeah, so what's gonna
happen - this is Danny.
512
00:29:38,375 --> 00:29:39,875
- He works on sound.
- JILLIAN: Hi, Danny.
513
00:29:39,875 --> 00:29:43,292
- MICHAEL: Anyway, when this
was done, I said, 'That's it.'
514
00:29:43,292 --> 00:29:45,750
I said, 'I don't want
you to cut my hair.'
515
00:29:45,792 --> 00:29:48,375
- I like it. It looks good.
- It actually put me off. No.
516
00:29:48,417 --> 00:29:50,625
- DAVID: It looks great.
- Because he did something I
517
00:29:50,667 --> 00:29:52,875
didn't want him to do. He talked
me into it the first time.
518
00:29:52,917 --> 00:29:54,792
- DAVID: Now, this is your
chair, Jillian. Over here.
519
00:29:54,792 --> 00:29:56,750
- MICHAEL: And plus
I already had a headache,
520
00:29:56,792 --> 00:29:59,417
and the smell of the
chemicals he put my face,
521
00:29:59,417 --> 00:30:01,292
I just about bloody...
- Yeah. Am I sitting there?
522
00:30:01,375 --> 00:30:03,500
Where's Michael sitting?
- ...it was toxic.
523
00:30:03,542 --> 00:30:05,042
- DAVID: He's over here.
- This is a radio microphone.
524
00:30:05,125 --> 00:30:07,417
- Unless you wanna take part.
525
00:30:07,417 --> 00:30:09,167
Cos the camera is
gonna have Michael there.
526
00:30:09,167 --> 00:30:11,375
How did you two meet?
527
00:30:11,417 --> 00:30:13,875
How did you come
into each other's lives?
528
00:30:13,875 --> 00:30:17,292
Are you both married?
What's your relationship?
529
00:30:17,375 --> 00:30:19,417
- That's private, David.
- (JILLIAN LAUGHS)
530
00:30:19,417 --> 00:30:21,750
- You're not much of an
investigative journalist,
531
00:30:21,792 --> 00:30:23,750
if you don't. Or is this
a rhetorical question?
532
00:30:23,792 --> 00:30:25,167
- Oh, I thought I'd
put it straight to you.
533
00:30:25,167 --> 00:30:27,167
- (BOTH LAUGH)
- I mean, you'd know,
534
00:30:27,167 --> 00:30:28,917
so I thought
I'd ask you directly.
535
00:30:31,750 --> 00:30:33,417
- Is this not a...? Well...
536
00:30:35,042 --> 00:30:36,792
we're going to
say that's private.
537
00:30:37,792 --> 00:30:40,417
- JILLIAN: Mm.
538
00:30:40,417 --> 00:30:44,417
- I thought it would be a
straightforward yes or no.
539
00:30:44,417 --> 00:30:47,667
So what's it's... I... What
I'd like to cover here is...
540
00:30:47,750 --> 00:30:49,292
- I don't wanna waste
your time if you can't-
541
00:30:49,292 --> 00:30:52,875
- But there's one thing.
There's nothing more irksome,
542
00:30:52,917 --> 00:30:56,375
if someone is controlling -
trying to control the narrative,
543
00:30:56,417 --> 00:30:59,375
when you're the person
who should be doing it.
544
00:30:59,417 --> 00:31:00,667
Where they hopefully will.
545
00:31:00,667 --> 00:31:02,750
- Yeah. You've got no
particular reason to trust me.
546
00:31:02,792 --> 00:31:06,500
- But there are things that
you may not realise fully
547
00:31:06,542 --> 00:31:09,042
the ramifications,
because I'm not telling you
548
00:31:09,125 --> 00:31:13,917
everything that I know
and have evidence of.
549
00:31:13,917 --> 00:31:16,917
I'm not telling you that, cos
you don't need to know it yet.
550
00:31:16,917 --> 00:31:19,417
David, do you know this?
551
00:31:19,500 --> 00:31:22,125
If this was in front of a
tribunal or court of law...
552
00:31:22,167 --> 00:31:25,375
- Mm.
- ...or just a,
553
00:31:25,417 --> 00:31:28,417
um, debate, in so much that
554
00:31:28,500 --> 00:31:31,375
people had to make an
assessment on point of fact...
555
00:31:31,417 --> 00:31:33,042
- Yeah. Mm.
556
00:31:33,250 --> 00:31:36,042
- There's not one thing
that you've asserted -
557
00:31:36,042 --> 00:31:38,792
not one thing -
that would stand up.
558
00:31:38,875 --> 00:31:40,792
And I'm not just talking
about you couldn't prove it -
559
00:31:40,792 --> 00:31:43,375
I could actually prove,
beyond all reasonable doubt,
560
00:31:43,417 --> 00:31:46,167
that that assertion was false.
561
00:31:46,167 --> 00:31:47,667
Because there's
a difference between
562
00:31:47,667 --> 00:31:50,667
you not being able
to prove something is true
563
00:31:50,667 --> 00:31:54,167
and me being able to
prove that it's false.
564
00:31:54,167 --> 00:31:56,500
- Why do think I've
got everything wrong -
565
00:31:58,250 --> 00:32:00,417
from your side?
- Uh, wrong?
566
00:32:00,500 --> 00:32:01,625
— It's quite weird sitting
in a room together.
567
00:32:01,667 --> 00:32:03,667
- No, you didn't get
anything wrong, David.
568
00:32:03,792 --> 00:32:05,792
You knew right from the
start what you were doing.
569
00:32:05,792 --> 00:32:08,042
You didn't know all the
facts, but, you know,
570
00:32:08,042 --> 00:32:10,667
you knew what you were doing.
571
00:32:10,750 --> 00:32:14,417
- But what... Like, what does
that make you think of me?
572
00:32:14,417 --> 00:32:17,417
- Uh, I just look
at it objectively,
573
00:32:17,417 --> 00:32:20,292
and, uh... Jillian's laughing.
- (BOTH LAUGH)
574
00:32:22,417 --> 00:32:23,875
- JILLIAN: Jesus. (LAUGHS)
575
00:32:25,625 --> 00:32:27,792
- I mean, I think I've...
576
00:32:27,875 --> 00:32:30,542
I've described you
as a reptile to people.
577
00:32:31,417 --> 00:32:33,167
- (LAUGHS) Yeah.
- Mm. As a reptile?
578
00:32:33,250 --> 00:32:35,292
Is that fair?
- (LAUGHS)
579
00:32:35,292 --> 00:32:37,875
- But, you know,
it's such a shame,
580
00:32:37,875 --> 00:32:40,875
because you probably
581
00:32:40,917 --> 00:32:43,042
would have been quite an
interesting person to know,
582
00:32:43,042 --> 00:32:44,875
if you weren't such a cunt.
583
00:32:44,917 --> 00:32:46,500
- (BOTH LAUGH)
584
00:32:48,250 --> 00:32:50,000
— Your life's quite
chaotic, Jillian.
585
00:32:50,042 --> 00:32:51,542
It's quite extraordinary.
586
00:32:52,292 --> 00:32:53,875
- Well...
- It must be quite
587
00:32:53,917 --> 00:32:56,417
extraordinary,
having Michael around.
588
00:32:58,042 --> 00:32:59,500
- Well, he is a genius.
589
00:33:02,167 --> 00:33:04,042
- Yeah.
- I'm not joking.
590
00:33:04,125 --> 00:33:06,417
- Does he grow on you over time?
591
00:33:06,500 --> 00:33:08,417
- Sorry?
- Does he grow on you over time?
592
00:33:08,500 --> 00:33:11,792
- Oh. He's an absolute
genius and...
593
00:33:13,667 --> 00:33:15,917
to be highly respected
in every way.
594
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:17,292
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
595
00:33:17,375 --> 00:33:20,292
- He has an
extraordinary talent.
596
00:33:20,375 --> 00:33:22,417
-Hmm?
- I'm just telling David that
597
00:33:22,542 --> 00:33:24,417
you're a genius - that's all.
598
00:33:24,500 --> 00:33:26,875
— Oh, well, no, that's just...
599
00:33:26,875 --> 00:33:28,750
Don't get into that
stuff, Jillian, please.
600
00:33:28,792 --> 00:33:30,625
- What's your life
been like since
601
00:33:30,667 --> 00:33:33,417
Michael's come into your life?
602
00:33:33,417 --> 00:33:35,542
- Uh, Michael has
603
00:33:35,625 --> 00:33:37,500
enriched my life immensely.
604
00:33:39,875 --> 00:33:41,542
Mm.
605
00:33:43,250 --> 00:33:44,917
Every day.
- Oh, well, that sounds lovely.
606
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:46,417
- Mm.
- (BOTH LAUGH)
607
00:33:48,667 --> 00:33:50,625
- Well, he's a very
caring person.
608
00:33:50,625 --> 00:33:53,250
He is very, very
kind to animals,
609
00:33:53,292 --> 00:33:54,917
and he's very kind to people.
610
00:33:56,625 --> 00:33:58,417
- And it is late. I'm just gonna
grab that out of your pocket.
611
00:33:58,417 --> 00:34:00,250
- You've gotta unhook me.
I'm gonna be taking off
612
00:34:00,292 --> 00:34:02,042
with your microphone.
613
00:34:02,042 --> 00:34:03,792
(LAUGHS)
614
00:34:05,625 --> 00:34:07,417
Well, it's quite interesting
because, like...
615
00:34:07,417 --> 00:34:11,167
- Mm.
- I mean, David's 37; I'm... 67.
616
00:34:11,167 --> 00:34:13,542
So there's a 30-year age gap.
617
00:34:14,542 --> 00:34:16,625
- You know, it's quite...
- Mm. Yeah. There is.
618
00:34:16,667 --> 00:34:19,875
- I mean, that's quite a big
age gap, really, isn't it?
619
00:34:19,917 --> 00:34:21,417
- Do you have any life advice
for me? I've got a bit to go,
620
00:34:21,542 --> 00:34:23,834
as do you.
- Oh, I've got heaps.
621
00:34:23,917 --> 00:34:25,584
- What would be your main thing,
what would be your takeaway for
622
00:34:25,584 --> 00:34:28,292
me, as a sprightly 37-year-old?
623
00:34:28,292 --> 00:34:30,209
- Oh. Well, I think
you already know -
624
00:34:31,167 --> 00:34:32,959
winners never give up. (LAUGHS)
625
00:34:35,334 --> 00:34:37,959
And happiness is a
place to come from,
626
00:34:37,959 --> 00:34:40,209
not to get to. (LAUGHS)
- No, Jillian.
627
00:34:41,334 --> 00:34:43,084
- Well, thanks for
meeting with me, Michael.
628
00:34:43,084 --> 00:34:45,209
- I know you find it
a little... you know,
629
00:34:45,292 --> 00:34:47,209
it's all very well
being jocular, but
630
00:34:47,292 --> 00:34:50,209
this is actually the man
whose helped, um,
631
00:34:50,209 --> 00:34:52,334
fuel the fires of, um...
- Well...
632
00:34:52,417 --> 00:34:55,209
...of in some cases,
633
00:34:55,209 --> 00:34:57,834
hatred.
634
00:34:57,917 --> 00:34:59,959
- You know, and you must
take responsibility for that.
635
00:34:59,959 --> 00:35:03,792
I'm not being necessarily
duped to fall for anything.
636
00:35:03,792 --> 00:35:05,084
But anyway, it's an eye-opener
for you with a few things.
637
00:35:05,167 --> 00:35:06,667
- It is.
- OK.
638
00:35:06,667 --> 00:35:08,084
- Oh, look, and it's raining.
- Goodnight.
639
00:35:08,084 --> 00:35:09,542
- OK.
- Be safe out there.
640
00:35:10,292 --> 00:35:11,834
- Goodnight.
641
00:35:18,417 --> 00:35:20,459
- (SIGHS)
642
00:35:20,542 --> 00:35:23,084
WHISPERS: What? Ha.
643
00:35:23,084 --> 00:35:25,084
Fucking hell. (CHUCKLES)
- Holy shit. What happened?
644
00:35:25,209 --> 00:35:26,667
- (LAUGHS) I dunno.
645
00:35:29,292 --> 00:35:32,834
He's such an odd... He's
likeable when he wants to be liked.
646
00:35:32,917 --> 00:35:35,542
He's funny -
he's, like, a real funny fucker.
647
00:35:35,584 --> 00:35:37,792
And Jillian's quite
funny as well.
648
00:35:37,834 --> 00:35:38,917
It's just a very different
situation to, sort of,
649
00:35:38,959 --> 00:35:40,167
what you expect.
650
00:35:40,209 --> 00:35:43,584
But I don't know what
I expected with them, really.
651
00:35:43,584 --> 00:35:45,209
I don't know.
652
00:35:48,584 --> 00:35:51,542
I don't know what just happened.
653
00:35:51,542 --> 00:35:55,292
This whole situation just
doesn't make sense to me.
654
00:35:55,334 --> 00:35:59,459
The ex-con clamper has embedded
himself in Jillian's life,
655
00:35:59,459 --> 00:36:02,084
and while neither of them
wants to clarify anything,
656
00:36:02,209 --> 00:36:03,667
they seem perfectly happy.
657
00:36:05,709 --> 00:36:09,209
Maybe I'm the problem, blowing
all things out of proportion;
658
00:36:09,334 --> 00:36:11,792
annoyed I just paid this
man nearly $3000.
659
00:36:25,084 --> 00:36:26,584
- Over the next few months,
660
00:36:26,584 --> 00:36:29,584
I talked to over 30
of Jillian's friends,
661
00:36:29,584 --> 00:36:31,792
and they're all terrified
of Michael.
662
00:36:42,084 --> 00:36:43,667
- Just the lawyers
had your name to call.
663
00:36:44,834 --> 00:36:46,459
_ Um-
664
00:36:49,167 --> 00:36:51,792
- New Zealand is a small place,
665
00:36:51,834 --> 00:36:55,209
and they think if they talk to
me, he'll come after them.
666
00:36:55,209 --> 00:36:57,959
Only one person agrees
to go on the record -
667
00:36:57,959 --> 00:37:00,084
Jillian's son.
668
00:37:00,167 --> 00:37:02,459
- He's just in your ear.
669
00:37:02,459 --> 00:37:03,584
He's like the little
devil on your shoulder;
670
00:37:03,667 --> 00:37:05,084
he just churns away at you.
671
00:37:06,334 --> 00:37:08,709
He managed to just drive a wedge
between all the close friends;
672
00:37:08,709 --> 00:37:10,292
slowly chipping away-
673
00:37:11,667 --> 00:37:13,709
More or less just scared
them, to the point where
674
00:37:13,792 --> 00:37:15,709
they didn't wanna
come in the door.
675
00:37:18,834 --> 00:37:20,459
- When Michael Organ
got out of prison,
676
00:37:20,459 --> 00:37:22,834
he filed for bankruptcy.
677
00:37:22,959 --> 00:37:26,459
It was October of 2007.
678
00:37:26,542 --> 00:37:28,584
Like, do you remember when
679
00:37:28,584 --> 00:37:31,709
Michael did turn
up on the scene?
680
00:37:31,709 --> 00:37:33,834
- It was October 2007.
681
00:37:33,834 --> 00:37:36,417
And I remember it quite vividly.
682
00:37:36,459 --> 00:37:38,792
I walked in to the shop,...
683
00:37:38,792 --> 00:37:41,709
and here was this character
sitting there...
684
00:37:41,792 --> 00:37:43,709
eating lunch with Mum.
685
00:37:43,792 --> 00:37:46,292
And I felt this, um...
686
00:37:46,292 --> 00:37:50,084
As you do, I just sort of almost
walked into it - an aura.
687
00:37:50,084 --> 00:37:53,042
And, um, she just fobbed it
off, 'Oh, he's harmless.
688
00:37:53,042 --> 00:37:55,334
'He's just a... just, you know,
689
00:37:55,417 --> 00:37:57,667
'he's just coming in for lunch
every day of the week,
690
00:37:57,709 --> 00:37:59,834
'and he's quite clever, and he's
really good at antiques,
691
00:37:59,959 --> 00:38:01,334
'and he knows his stuff,
692
00:38:01,334 --> 00:38:03,834
'and I'm really enjoying
conversation with him.'
693
00:38:03,959 --> 00:38:06,834
That was, sort of, really,
the initial meeting.
694
00:38:06,834 --> 00:38:09,834
And I just felt, straightaway,
this aura that was totally
695
00:38:09,834 --> 00:38:12,292
really creepy and evil.
696
00:38:12,334 --> 00:38:15,667
- I wonder why no one
tried to get rid of Michael.
697
00:38:15,667 --> 00:38:19,334
But here's the thing - they did.
698
00:38:19,417 --> 00:38:21,084
- I've clone it twice. Twice,
699
00:38:21,084 --> 00:38:23,459
I've actually formally
trespassed him,
700
00:38:23,542 --> 00:38:26,042
packed all his belongings into
boxes and delivered it to him,
701
00:38:26,084 --> 00:38:27,667
wherever he was residing
at the time.
702
00:38:27,709 --> 00:38:29,959
- And so where did he
go and live in that time?
703
00:38:29,959 --> 00:38:32,834
- And I believe that's probably,
thinking about it now,
704
00:38:32,834 --> 00:38:34,917
that's probably around the
time that he went to
705
00:38:34,917 --> 00:38:36,917
those guys and said,
'I've been beaten and abused.'
706
00:38:36,917 --> 00:38:40,209
And, 'Poor me! Woe is me! Help!'
707
00:38:42,334 --> 00:38:44,709
- We'd obviously got
708
00:38:44,709 --> 00:38:47,334
into a conversation
about homophobia or...
709
00:38:47,334 --> 00:38:50,084
whatever it was, and
I had relayed the story
710
00:38:50,209 --> 00:38:52,959
of my growing up in
a homophobic family.
711
00:38:53,084 --> 00:38:55,209
Uh, and then
a little while later...
712
00:38:56,334 --> 00:38:58,667
his story matched mine.
713
00:38:58,667 --> 00:39:01,834
Uh, but it was aimed
at Jillian Bashford —
714
00:39:03,459 --> 00:39:05,834
Uh, you know, 'Oh, yes, I get
treated like that every day;
715
00:39:05,959 --> 00:39:08,292
'I get homophobic comments,
and she beats me,
716
00:39:08,334 --> 00:39:09,792
"and she hits me and...'
717
00:39:11,459 --> 00:39:14,792
The story resonated with
me so much that I thought,
718
00:39:14,792 --> 00:39:17,334
'Oh. If there's any...
719
00:39:17,417 --> 00:39:20,667
'any truth to that whatsoever,
then I've gotta help out.'
720
00:39:20,709 --> 00:39:22,959
And, uh, a couple of days
after he'd moved in,
721
00:39:23,042 --> 00:39:24,917
I thought, 'Oh, my God...
722
00:39:24,959 --> 00:39:26,417
'this is trouble.'
723
00:39:28,209 --> 00:39:31,667
It was a very weird
out-of-body experience.
724
00:39:31,667 --> 00:39:34,792
I couldn't make
head or tails of it.
725
00:39:34,834 --> 00:39:36,834
It was frightening.
It was, uh...
726
00:39:38,334 --> 00:39:40,834
He had this sort of control
and hold over you,
727
00:39:40,917 --> 00:39:43,959
and you found yourself
728
00:39:44,042 --> 00:39:45,834
doing all these things and
putting up with various things
729
00:39:45,917 --> 00:39:47,959
and... But, yeah, I...
730
00:39:48,042 --> 00:39:51,334
I didn't know how to handle it;
731
00:39:51,334 --> 00:39:53,917
I didn't know how to get
rid of him. It was like this,
732
00:39:53,959 --> 00:39:57,084
you know, puss-y thing
on you that won't go away.
733
00:39:57,084 --> 00:39:58,834
- A fairly desperate kind of
situation that you're stuck in?
734
00:39:58,917 --> 00:40:01,209
- Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,
735
00:40:01,292 --> 00:40:04,584
I was pretty suicidal
at the time anyway.
736
00:40:04,584 --> 00:40:07,584
And that just, sort of, was
pulling me over the edge,
737
00:40:07,667 --> 00:40:09,459
because I just thought,
you know,
738
00:40:10,792 --> 00:40:13,542
'This is a... What crazy world
have I landed in here?'
739
00:40:14,834 --> 00:40:18,209
Yeah. I mean, I... I...
There was a few attempts;
740
00:40:18,292 --> 00:40:21,292
one that I shouldn't
have survived.
741
00:40:21,292 --> 00:40:23,834
And I wondered why,
when I did survive it.
742
00:40:25,417 --> 00:40:27,667
I was very angry about that.
I thought, 'No. I can't...
743
00:40:27,709 --> 00:40:30,209
'I can't keep waking
up in this world.
744
00:40:30,209 --> 00:40:32,834
'I don't want to
be a part of this.'
745
00:40:32,917 --> 00:40:34,542
- Right. So you'd be in a
pretty terrible way around him,
746
00:40:34,584 --> 00:40:36,584
and he'd just have no...
- Oh, no.
747
00:40:36,667 --> 00:40:38,959
- Nothing? Not,
'How are you going? And...'?
748
00:40:38,959 --> 00:40:41,084
- No. Never got a 'Hello'
or a 'How are you,'
749
00:40:41,167 --> 00:40:43,709
or 'Can I make you a cup
of tea? Are you OK?'
750
00:40:43,709 --> 00:40:45,959
No, no, no. I was
just the manservant.
751
00:40:45,959 --> 00:40:49,084
- But, I mean, obviously, when
you were traumatized by that,
752
00:40:49,167 --> 00:40:50,959
I mean, you would
have almost been dead,
753
00:40:51,042 --> 00:40:52,834
where was he? What was he doing?
754
00:40:53,542 --> 00:40:56,084
What?
755
00:40:56,167 --> 00:40:58,709
- Telling his stories.
I don't know. (LAUGHS)
756
00:40:58,792 --> 00:41:00,792
- Yeah. But he's in
the house with you?
757
00:41:00,834 --> 00:41:02,417
- Yeah. Yeah.
758
00:41:04,417 --> 00:41:06,917
Just ordering me
around. (LAUGHS)
759
00:41:06,959 --> 00:41:08,459
Getting me out of bed.
760
00:41:11,834 --> 00:41:14,459
- Happened to be driving
down Ponsonby Rd,
761
00:41:14,459 --> 00:41:16,209
and there was the van coming
towards me. And I thought, 'Oh.
762
00:41:16,209 --> 00:41:18,834
'Here - this must be Mum,
and...'
763
00:41:18,959 --> 00:41:22,334
Sure enough, it was two weeks
later, and there he was...
764
00:41:22,334 --> 00:41:24,334
in the van; wangled
his way back in.
765
00:41:27,542 --> 00:41:29,834
- I think once Organ latches on,
766
00:41:29,917 --> 00:41:31,417
he doesn't let go.
767
00:41:32,667 --> 00:41:35,209
It's why he thrived
clamping cars.
768
00:41:35,209 --> 00:41:37,792
It was never about the money;
769
00:41:37,834 --> 00:41:39,709
it was about physically
trapping people,
770
00:41:39,792 --> 00:41:41,834
so he could torment
them for hours.
771
00:41:43,584 --> 00:41:47,084
I don't believe Jillian ever
wanted her signs back -
772
00:41:47,084 --> 00:41:50,834
I believe it was Michael
who wanted me in court.
773
00:41:50,834 --> 00:41:53,459
And thanks to that case...
he's got my number.
774
00:42:02,792 --> 00:42:03,834
- Sorry?
- Which I still...
775
00:42:03,834 --> 00:42:06,167
— What? I'm curious who...
776
00:42:08,334 --> 00:42:10,084
- Oh, so you're saying you've
got a key to my house?
777
00:42:37,209 --> 00:42:39,334
- That does seem
quite weird. I mean,
778
00:42:39,417 --> 00:42:41,667
I'd prefer you didn't have
a key to my house, you know?
779
00:42:48,459 --> 00:42:50,084
- So, yeah. Well, it's...
(LAUGHS)
780
00:42:50,167 --> 00:42:52,334
I don't know what the
point of any of it is.
781
00:42:52,417 --> 00:42:55,834
Like, if he has a key
for my house, it's like...
782
00:42:55,834 --> 00:42:57,709
- if it is a key to your house,
that's very bizarre. Like, who...?
783
00:42:57,709 --> 00:43:01,459
- It's weird. But, like, the
story is so, like... it's so...
784
00:43:01,459 --> 00:43:03,959
But what he's done has
now made me think,
785
00:43:04,042 --> 00:43:05,834
'Holy shit. Who do I know...
786
00:43:05,917 --> 00:43:07,834
'has turned on me?'
787
00:43:07,834 --> 00:43:10,209
And if it is my key,
788
00:43:10,209 --> 00:43:13,084
then he's either fucking
stolen it somehow,...
789
00:43:13,084 --> 00:43:15,459
which is, um...
makes me sound crazy.
790
00:43:15,459 --> 00:43:16,667
Like, if I told anyone this -
if that key opens my house,
791
00:43:17,709 --> 00:43:19,584
if I explain the situation
to anyone,
792
00:43:19,584 --> 00:43:22,084
it makes me sound
like I've lost the plot,
793
00:43:22,084 --> 00:43:25,667
cos it makes no sense. Or I
spend the rest of my life now,
794
00:43:25,709 --> 00:43:26,667
looking at every friend and,
like, every crew member,
795
00:43:27,709 --> 00:43:29,667
going, 'Who gave Michael
Organ my key?'
796
00:43:29,709 --> 00:43:32,334
- Well. Don't
actually look happy,
797
00:43:32,334 --> 00:43:34,167
because we should be quite
stern in front of Mr Farrier,
798
00:43:34,209 --> 00:43:37,042
considering how-
- Well, I'll film it.
799
00:43:37,084 --> 00:43:39,084
- ...terrible he's
been towards us.
800
00:43:40,334 --> 00:43:42,959
Oh, are you going to film it?
Well, I hope it's all right.
801
00:43:43,042 --> 00:43:44,959
- OK.
- (SCOFFS)
802
00:43:45,042 --> 00:43:48,584
- So, like, explain to me
what is going on now,
803
00:43:48,584 --> 00:43:51,084
cos this is an odd scene.
- Well, as we discussed earlier,
804
00:43:51,084 --> 00:43:53,584
and no doubt you recorded,...
— Mm.
805
00:43:53,584 --> 00:43:58,209
— ...um, this was a key that
was given to Jillian and I...
806
00:43:58,209 --> 00:44:01,792
about three months after
we vacated Ponsonby.
807
00:44:01,834 --> 00:44:03,709
— It's super-weird.
I'll admit that. Like, you know.
808
00:44:03,709 --> 00:44:05,834
- Well, you trigger
this, you see.
809
00:44:05,917 --> 00:44:09,042
And you've triggered it in our
life, because this man came into
810
00:44:09,042 --> 00:44:11,709
our life because of you,...
— Mm.
811
00:44:11,709 --> 00:44:13,417
- ...personally, and because
of what you've published.
812
00:44:13,417 --> 00:44:15,209
- Why did you tell
me about this?
813
00:44:15,209 --> 00:44:18,459
- Because it tied in
814
00:44:18,459 --> 00:44:21,584
with some of the things
that you were saying
815
00:44:21,667 --> 00:44:23,792
in our conversation
an hour or so ago,
816
00:44:24,959 --> 00:44:28,209
that sometimes people,
when you know them,
817
00:44:28,292 --> 00:44:31,459
or they get close to you,
818
00:44:31,459 --> 00:44:35,459
or in your circle through
other people you know,
819
00:44:35,459 --> 00:44:38,292
may actually be- I don't use the
term wolves in sheep's clothing,
820
00:44:38,334 --> 00:44:40,334
but that's what
they can actually be.
821
00:44:40,459 --> 00:44:42,084
- Right.
- You know, they can even sit
822
00:44:42,084 --> 00:44:43,584
there, they can eat your food,
823
00:44:43,667 --> 00:44:46,334
they can sit at the table with
you, share your wine,
824
00:44:46,459 --> 00:44:50,584
they can smile when they
greet you - all those things.
825
00:44:50,584 --> 00:44:53,042
- These people are amongst us.
- And at the end of the day,
826
00:44:53,084 --> 00:44:56,667
there is that side
to some people.
827
00:44:56,709 --> 00:45:00,042
— Just don't know why anyone
would want you in the house,
828
00:45:00,084 --> 00:45:01,834
or to give you the opportunity
to come into my house.
829
00:45:01,834 --> 00:45:04,292
It's just a super-weird thing.
- Well, I think I know.
830
00:45:04,334 --> 00:45:06,209
But that's supposition.
- Why? What? You're saying what?
831
00:45:06,292 --> 00:45:09,084
- That might be for a
documentary that I do.
832
00:45:09,084 --> 00:45:12,334
I mean, and the thing is
you haven't played ball,
833
00:45:12,334 --> 00:45:14,667
and you've been printing
bloody twaddle for years.
834
00:45:14,667 --> 00:45:17,209
- OK.
835
00:45:17,209 --> 00:45:20,417
Well, thanks for giving
my key back to me.
836
00:45:20,417 --> 00:45:21,709
And I appreciate that.
- Yeah. Yeah. Well-
837
00:45:21,709 --> 00:45:23,209
- So thank you.
- You know.
838
00:45:23,209 --> 00:45:25,459
- And are you OK, Jillian?
839
00:45:25,542 --> 00:45:27,584
- I'm very well.
- Well, that's...
840
00:45:27,584 --> 00:45:29,084
- Very well.
- Yeah.
841
00:45:34,584 --> 00:45:36,584
Knowing what I know
about Organ...
842
00:45:36,667 --> 00:45:38,084
I worry about Jillian.
843
00:45:39,459 --> 00:45:41,084
And now I'm worried
that Michael Organ
844
00:45:41,084 --> 00:45:43,459
somehow has a key to my house.
845
00:45:43,459 --> 00:45:47,334
LAUGHING: I don't know.
I don't. It's like my...
846
00:45:47,334 --> 00:45:49,334
- And It looks like your key?
- Yeah, it does.
847
00:45:49,459 --> 00:45:50,667
Yeah, it does look
a lot like my key.
848
00:45:50,667 --> 00:45:52,834
I think he does have
the key to my house.
849
00:45:54,917 --> 00:45:58,417
Um, I just don't know how it
fits in with the story at all.
850
00:45:58,459 --> 00:46:01,417
And I mean,
what the fuck is going on?
851
00:46:01,459 --> 00:46:04,459
Back at my house,
away from Michael Organ...
852
00:46:04,459 --> 00:46:05,917
I try the key.
853
00:46:10,834 --> 00:46:12,542
Fuck!
854
00:46:15,459 --> 00:46:18,209
Michael knows I'm making
a film about him,
855
00:46:18,292 --> 00:46:20,334
and I think he wants
to be a part of it.
856
00:46:21,709 --> 00:46:24,667
I wasn't expecting
to be in this position,
857
00:46:24,709 --> 00:46:27,042
but I figure that if I spend
enough time with him,
858
00:46:27,084 --> 00:46:29,084
he'll show some cracks.
859
00:46:29,084 --> 00:46:31,084
So me and Michael, well...
860
00:46:31,084 --> 00:46:32,584
we start to hang out.
861
00:46:33,084 --> 00:46:34,667
- (LAUGHS)
862
00:46:39,709 --> 00:46:42,667
- We're just getting
you - we're not...
863
00:46:42,709 --> 00:46:44,209
- Well, what-
- No, he doesn't wanna...
864
00:46:47,084 --> 00:46:48,959
So he, urn...
865
00:46:48,959 --> 00:46:51,334
- OK, we'll put the camera down.
866
00:46:51,417 --> 00:46:54,292
Despite inviting me
and my crew in...
867
00:46:54,334 --> 00:46:56,792
he's hot and cold
about us filming.
868
00:46:56,834 --> 00:46:59,334
He seems to enjoy the
power he has over me.
869
00:46:59,334 --> 00:47:00,709
- You see -
he's filming in here.
870
00:47:00,834 --> 00:47:02,334
- Yeah, but we're
bringing it down now.
871
00:47:02,334 --> 00:47:03,667
Once we enter, it comes down.
- Out of interest -
872
00:47:03,709 --> 00:47:05,292
I don't want to control
your editing of it,
873
00:47:05,334 --> 00:47:07,334
but I'd love to see what -
874
00:47:07,417 --> 00:47:08,292
cos you can play it back on it,
so just show me a few excerpts;
875
00:47:08,334 --> 00:47:10,459
- Yep.
- I'm curious.
876
00:47:10,459 --> 00:47:13,334
- He hates being filmed,
but he also loves it.
877
00:47:13,334 --> 00:47:16,042
To the key...
878
00:47:16,042 --> 00:47:19,834
- I'm not going to tell you,
at this stage, about the key.
879
00:47:19,959 --> 00:47:21,667
- ...will you tell me at some
point? Cos I think that's, like-
880
00:47:21,667 --> 00:47:23,667
- Perhaps,
but that's not a promise.
881
00:47:23,667 --> 00:47:26,334
- ...a bit of a game.
- No, it's not a game,
882
00:47:26,334 --> 00:47:29,417
because the person
who provided that key...
883
00:47:31,167 --> 00:47:34,209
um, would expect
confidentiality.
884
00:47:34,209 --> 00:47:36,792
It wasn't promised them,
but they'd expect it.
885
00:47:36,834 --> 00:47:39,459
And they're not the kinds
of people you want to cross.
886
00:47:39,459 --> 00:47:42,334
- He refuses to expand
on why he's got my key,
887
00:47:42,417 --> 00:47:44,834
or say anything, really.
888
00:47:44,834 --> 00:47:48,084
He avoids naming
anyone or being specific.
889
00:47:48,084 --> 00:47:50,542
- Are you a monarchist, David?
890
00:47:50,584 --> 00:47:53,167
- I'm not particularly,
no, to be honest.
891
00:47:53,209 --> 00:47:55,084
- Mm. Are you
right- or left-handed?
892
00:47:55,084 --> 00:47:56,459
- I'm left-handed.
- Damn.
893
00:47:57,834 --> 00:47:59,667
- OK. I can have this one here?
- Yeah, we'll give you that one.
894
00:47:59,709 --> 00:48:01,292
So you can't escape,
you see. (LAUGHS)
895
00:48:01,292 --> 00:48:03,834
— Thank you. Thank you, Michael.
896
00:48:03,959 --> 00:48:06,167
No poison in this?
897
00:48:06,167 --> 00:48:08,584
Just“.
- Hey. Don't imply such things.
898
00:48:08,667 --> 00:48:10,459
I'm not into that.
- (LAUGHS)
899
00:48:10,834 --> 00:48:12,917
Cheers.
900
00:48:12,959 --> 00:48:14,959
- Cheers.
901
00:48:15,084 --> 00:48:17,459
Without being... snobby,
902
00:48:17,584 --> 00:48:20,584
I'm proud of my ancestry.
903
00:48:20,584 --> 00:48:22,667
There's Crown charters in which
904
00:48:22,709 --> 00:48:25,667
my ancestors are
referred to as nobles.
905
00:48:25,667 --> 00:48:27,167
We're talking about
from the earliest days of
906
00:48:27,209 --> 00:48:29,709
the Norman Conquest.
907
00:48:29,709 --> 00:48:33,084
And then things like the
sheriff, you know, um...
908
00:48:33,167 --> 00:48:36,167
sheriffs of London,
909
00:48:36,209 --> 00:48:39,459
Keeper of... of... of the seas.
910
00:48:39,542 --> 00:48:41,917
Keeper of the seas in
the medieval period.
911
00:48:42,584 --> 00:48:45,084
And, like, that was the king.
912
00:48:45,084 --> 00:48:47,459
- I get what you're saying.
Yeah. No, totally. And I get-
913
00:48:47,542 --> 00:48:49,584
- You know, and I'm
actually proud of that.
914
00:48:49,584 --> 00:48:53,417
And there's more stuff
behind- besides.
915
00:48:53,459 --> 00:48:55,709
- 'It's really hard, just
listening and nodding to
916
00:48:55,792 --> 00:48:59,084
'Michael; taking in his
insufferable topics,
917
00:48:59,084 --> 00:49:01,792
'like his disproven
noble lineage.
918
00:49:01,834 --> 00:49:04,709
'For my own sanity,
I try and steer the conversation
919
00:49:04,792 --> 00:49:07,334
'towards things I actually
want to know about.'
920
00:49:07,459 --> 00:49:09,209
I've never taken
anyone to court myself.
921
00:49:09,209 --> 00:49:11,584
- Mm.
— You've taken, I think,
922
00:49:11,584 --> 00:49:13,417
more people to court
than I have, and you're -
923
00:49:13,459 --> 00:49:15,084
I think you're quite good -
from what I can tell,
924
00:49:15,084 --> 00:49:16,667
of looking through cases - like,
925
00:49:16,709 --> 00:49:20,292
you're quite formidable in
there and quite good at it.
926
00:49:20,334 --> 00:49:22,792
Is that a fair call?
- Uh, I'll only take...
927
00:49:24,042 --> 00:49:26,667
I only wanna get involved
in legal action as the last-
928
00:49:26,667 --> 00:49:30,084
as a last -
or close to last - resort,
929
00:49:30,084 --> 00:49:31,584
because you can be...
930
00:49:33,084 --> 00:49:36,459
represent yourself or your
case as best as possible.
931
00:49:37,709 --> 00:49:41,292
But you then...
It's the vagaries of,
932
00:49:41,292 --> 00:49:44,667
um, whoever's hearing the case.
933
00:49:45,667 --> 00:49:49,042
Um, it's amazing how much...
934
00:49:50,334 --> 00:49:52,834
things come into play
that really shouldn't.
935
00:49:55,709 --> 00:49:57,959
- No one knows this
more than the people
936
00:49:58,084 --> 00:50:00,834
who end up in court with him.
937
00:50:00,834 --> 00:50:04,584
They all talk about the
wild stories Organ spins,
938
00:50:04,667 --> 00:50:07,334
his defense to even the
simplest of allegations
939
00:50:07,417 --> 00:50:09,667
taking on fantastical
twists and turns.
940
00:50:11,042 --> 00:50:12,459
- He knows his shit,
941
00:50:14,334 --> 00:50:17,792
including how to filibuster
a pretty direct,
942
00:50:17,834 --> 00:50:21,709
'You stole that stuff from
me; can I have it back?'
943
00:50:21,709 --> 00:50:24,917
And turning that into an
international espionage...
944
00:50:24,917 --> 00:50:27,584
like, deep plot.
945
00:50:27,667 --> 00:50:31,084
He went into this big, long
tirade about how the Russians
946
00:50:31,084 --> 00:50:33,542
and Norwegians were fighting
947
00:50:33,584 --> 00:50:37,334
over the rights to drilling
in the North Sea.
948
00:50:37,417 --> 00:50:41,459
And that due to my family
contacts and studies,
949
00:50:41,459 --> 00:50:44,584
I was obviously spying on
behalf of - I don't know -
950
00:50:44,667 --> 00:50:47,459
one of these two great
world giants. (LAUGHS)
951
00:50:48,084 --> 00:50:50,459
(LAUGHS) It was, like,
952
00:50:50,459 --> 00:50:52,209
that took up most of the
hearing, to be honest.
953
00:50:52,209 --> 00:50:54,667
- Mm.
- And he was, like,
954
00:50:54,709 --> 00:50:57,542
pontificating like he was
in fucking Supreme Court.
955
00:50:58,792 --> 00:51:02,667
He just... And he just wasted
the court's time, basically.
956
00:51:02,667 --> 00:51:04,459
We can laugh at it now,
but in the moment,
957
00:51:04,542 --> 00:51:07,334
he's there to intimidate you.
958
00:51:07,334 --> 00:51:10,417
My friend who went
to court with me,
959
00:51:10,459 --> 00:51:13,417
he actually left
halfway through.
960
00:51:13,459 --> 00:51:15,917
He asked, 'Can I go?
I'm scared of this guy.'
961
00:51:15,959 --> 00:51:19,667
And I was, like, 'Yeah.
Well, totally. I understand.
962
00:51:19,667 --> 00:51:21,834
'He's scaring the
shit out of me too.'
963
00:51:24,584 --> 00:51:27,334
- MICHAEL: If you're in that
position, you can't be cowardly.
964
00:51:27,334 --> 00:51:28,834
You can't falter.
965
00:51:29,667 --> 00:51:31,917
- Mm.
- And you've got to be on...
966
00:51:31,959 --> 00:51:34,459
on your toes as
best as possible.
967
00:51:34,459 --> 00:51:37,084
I mean, especially if people
are lying through their...
968
00:51:37,084 --> 00:51:39,084
their... their teeth.
969
00:51:39,084 --> 00:51:41,584
- You'd be a good
lawyer in another life.
970
00:51:41,584 --> 00:51:45,292
Cos you're good at this stuff.
You were good in that tribunal.
971
00:51:45,334 --> 00:51:47,417
Like, I didn't-
you know, you were, uh...
972
00:51:47,459 --> 00:51:50,084
- If I'd represented
myself in the yacht case,
973
00:51:50,209 --> 00:51:51,542
I would never have
been convicted;
974
00:51:51,584 --> 00:51:53,667
it wouldn't have
got past base one.
975
00:51:53,667 --> 00:51:56,209
- Yeah. So if you
have your time again,
976
00:51:56,209 --> 00:51:57,792
yeah, you'd represent yourself?
- Absolutely.
977
00:51:57,834 --> 00:51:59,792
- Yeah. Yeah.
978
00:51:59,834 --> 00:52:02,834
I'm reminded of those emails
coming from Jillian's account
979
00:52:02,834 --> 00:52:06,667
years ago, the ones signed
off from a supposed lawyer,
980
00:52:06,667 --> 00:52:09,792
MDA Organ, the man
sitting in front of me now.
981
00:52:11,334 --> 00:52:14,292
But according to him, he never
wrote those legal threats.
982
00:52:14,334 --> 00:52:16,292
- You ran with that.
983
00:52:16,334 --> 00:52:18,959
I know who did it.
984
00:52:18,959 --> 00:52:22,209
Jillian knows who did it.
It wasn't me. It wasn't her.
985
00:52:22,209 --> 00:52:24,959
It wasn't done with our consent.
986
00:52:24,959 --> 00:52:28,334
Urn, you may have an
inkling who it is. But that...
987
00:52:28,334 --> 00:52:30,042
- No, I-
- I'll disclose later.
988
00:52:31,334 --> 00:52:33,834
- I'm just frustrated with him,
989
00:52:33,834 --> 00:52:36,084
frustrated with his process,
990
00:52:36,167 --> 00:52:39,209
frustrated with him
not giving anything.
991
00:52:39,209 --> 00:52:42,334
It's just a pointless
exercise in talking to him.
992
00:52:42,334 --> 00:52:44,084
Like, you can't crack
him. He, sort of,
993
00:52:44,084 --> 00:52:46,584
dodges around everything.
994
00:52:46,584 --> 00:52:50,084
Used a lot of time in assuming
I could out him in some way,
995
00:52:50,167 --> 00:52:52,292
or, like, show what
he's like. But it's...
996
00:52:52,334 --> 00:52:53,834
he's better than me.
997
00:52:57,417 --> 00:53:00,334
One thing he keeps
coming back to is me -
998
00:53:00,417 --> 00:53:02,459
me and the articles
I wrote about clamping
999
00:53:02,584 --> 00:53:04,667
when this whole thing started.
1000
00:53:04,667 --> 00:53:06,334
- MICHAEL: The
more you reported it,
1001
00:53:06,417 --> 00:53:08,334
the more people
were parking there.
1002
00:53:08,334 --> 00:53:10,167
And they all -
1003
00:53:10,209 --> 00:53:13,209
every one of them made
reference to your articles -
1004
00:53:13,334 --> 00:53:15,542
every single one.
1005
00:53:15,584 --> 00:53:17,709
- Whenever he
calls me about this,
1006
00:53:17,709 --> 00:53:20,209
it's at least an
hour on the phone.
1007
00:53:20,209 --> 00:53:22,667
- There was something
about those articles,
1008
00:53:22,709 --> 00:53:24,584
and the way it went
through social media
1009
00:53:24,584 --> 00:53:27,417
that it became
sporting for people.
1010
00:53:27,459 --> 00:53:29,667
It got very, very strange.
- He's on mute.
1011
00:53:29,709 --> 00:53:31,459
- But that's the way it happens.
- This is so boring.
1012
00:53:31,459 --> 00:53:34,334
— Most people would think, 'Oh
God. I'm not gonna park there.'
1013
00:53:34,334 --> 00:53:36,209
But it was literally -
1014
00:53:36,209 --> 00:53:38,084
literally -
1015
00:53:38,084 --> 00:53:40,542
and, um-
1016
00:53:40,584 --> 00:53:42,917
- OK.
- I really wish we had more, um-
1017
00:53:42,917 --> 00:53:45,209
- Yeah. He's on mute. Yeah.
- ...applications of polygraph,
1018
00:53:45,209 --> 00:53:46,584
you know, the old
lying detectors here.
1019
00:53:46,584 --> 00:53:49,584
- I'm trying to think where to
go. Work him up more?
1020
00:53:50,584 --> 00:53:51,709
- ...because I actually
have a great faith.
1021
00:53:51,709 --> 00:53:53,667
- Shall we see how
long he talks for?
1022
00:53:53,709 --> 00:53:57,417
- In the last- As time
went through with that,
1023
00:53:57,459 --> 00:54:00,084
- having to resort to clamping-
- I'll go meet him soon.
1024
00:54:00,084 --> 00:54:01,709
...we used to let
a lot of people off.
1025
00:54:01,792 --> 00:54:03,084
- This is such a weird
1026
00:54:03,084 --> 00:54:05,459
conversation.
- It was the recidivist..
1027
00:54:05,459 --> 00:54:08,667
- And then the next
time I see him, I get this.
1028
00:54:08,667 --> 00:54:11,084
- OK, well. Let's walk out.
- OK. Oh!
1029
00:54:11,084 --> 00:54:12,959
Shit. (LAUGHS)
1030
00:54:13,042 --> 00:54:15,542
God.
1031
00:54:15,584 --> 00:54:18,084
(LAUGHS) How dare
you, sir! (LAUGHS)
1032
00:54:18,084 --> 00:54:21,334
- You're an absolute
maniac, Michael.
1033
00:54:21,334 --> 00:54:23,459
You're an absolute maniac.
- (LAUGHS)
1034
00:54:23,459 --> 00:54:26,084
- It's destabilizing,
1035
00:54:26,084 --> 00:54:29,459
as I don't know what version
of Michael I'm going to get.
1036
00:54:30,709 --> 00:54:32,834
- The three of us
were in our pyjamas...
1037
00:54:32,917 --> 00:54:35,084
and we were arguing
over this receipt, and, um,
1038
00:54:35,167 --> 00:54:37,209
he followed me
down to my bedroom.
1039
00:54:37,209 --> 00:54:39,459
And he punched me
in the head six times.
1040
00:54:41,209 --> 00:54:44,459
So, yeah. I ended up leaving -
as most flatmates -
1041
00:54:44,459 --> 00:54:45,834
with a police phone call.
1042
00:54:47,334 --> 00:54:49,667
So, in my case, he, apparently,
1043
00:54:49,709 --> 00:54:52,042
went straight down
to the bathroom,
1044
00:54:52,084 --> 00:54:54,417
and there was not a mark on
him. One of the flatmates
1045
00:54:54,459 --> 00:54:57,459
even told the police that
he came out of the bathroom,
1046
00:54:57,542 --> 00:54:59,459
and suddenly had scratches on
his face. He'd actually gone to
1047
00:54:59,459 --> 00:55:01,959
the bathroom and
scratched his own face,
1048
00:55:01,959 --> 00:55:03,959
to say to the police
that I had assaulted him.
1049
00:55:04,042 --> 00:55:07,542
But at that time,
I had blatantly chewed nails
1050
00:55:07,584 --> 00:55:09,209
from the anxiety living
with him. And I said,
1051
00:55:09,292 --> 00:55:11,084
'It's not fricking possible.'
1052
00:55:12,709 --> 00:55:14,917
And you're moving house
at 3 o'clock in the morning,
1053
00:55:14,917 --> 00:55:17,084
get everything out on your
trailer and everything.
1054
00:55:17,084 --> 00:55:19,084
The next-door neighbour,
who's a registered teacher,
1055
00:55:19,084 --> 00:55:20,709
comes out in her dressing
gown, says, 'Jesus Christ.
1056
00:55:20,834 --> 00:55:22,584
'When are they
gonna put him away?'
1057
00:55:22,667 --> 00:55:24,209
And you're like, 'I know.'
1058
00:55:27,834 --> 00:55:31,292
- Michael's clearly capable
of physical violence,
1059
00:55:31,334 --> 00:55:34,084
and yet he simply denies it all.
1060
00:55:34,167 --> 00:55:37,417
- MICHAEL: There is not one
piece of footage substantiating
1061
00:55:37,459 --> 00:55:40,459
any allegation of threats or-
1062
00:55:40,584 --> 00:55:42,667
or a threatening
behaviour from me.
1063
00:55:42,709 --> 00:55:45,209
There is nil.
1064
00:55:45,209 --> 00:55:48,084
- I've seen you driving
a van and trapping...
1065
00:55:48,084 --> 00:55:50,542
(TENSE MUSIC)
1066
00:55:50,584 --> 00:55:52,834
...young females
in that car park.
1067
00:55:52,834 --> 00:55:55,292
It's extremely threatening.
1068
00:55:55,334 --> 00:55:58,667
- The- No, it's not. The vehicle
had a wheel clamp on it.
1069
00:55:58,709 --> 00:56:01,667
- Yeah, you've been extremely
threatening to people.
1070
00:56:01,709 --> 00:56:04,209
And I've seen the video,
and I've heard the stories.
1071
00:56:04,209 --> 00:56:08,334
And I'm gonna believe 20 people
that talk to me about
1072
00:56:08,334 --> 00:56:11,709
their interactions they had,
over what you're telling me.
1073
00:56:11,792 --> 00:56:15,459
I don't know why I would
believe you over them.
1074
00:56:15,459 --> 00:56:18,834
- You have not seen any footage
of me threatening anyone,
1075
00:56:18,959 --> 00:56:22,667
because it never happened. So
that's how I know you are lying,
1076
00:56:22,667 --> 00:56:25,334
because it never happened.
Ipso facto,
1077
00:56:25,334 --> 00:56:28,084
there cannot be footage
of it. Never happened.
1078
00:56:28,084 --> 00:56:30,917
- I'm talking about
your mannerisms
1079
00:56:30,959 --> 00:56:33,084
and you trapping people
in with your van.
1080
00:56:33,084 --> 00:56:36,084
- Don't talk over me
please, David. David!
1081
00:56:36,167 --> 00:56:39,292
If you wanna get some copy,
which you're getting now,
1082
00:56:39,292 --> 00:56:41,292
be grateful for it and listen
to what I'm telling you,
1083
00:56:41,292 --> 00:56:42,834
because it's fact.
1084
00:56:42,834 --> 00:56:44,834
Whatever the current
version of reality is
1085
00:56:44,917 --> 00:56:47,334
spilling out of his mouth...
1086
00:56:47,334 --> 00:56:50,417
that is the current
reality that he lives in,
1087
00:56:50,459 --> 00:56:52,292
and he expects us to all accept.
1088
00:56:54,042 --> 00:56:55,459
And pushing back
against that reality
1089
00:56:55,542 --> 00:56:57,209
doesn't really do that much,
1090
00:56:57,209 --> 00:57:00,084
because it's like
you're not even there.
1091
00:57:00,084 --> 00:57:01,709
It's fucked. Like, it's...
1092
00:57:04,584 --> 00:57:07,709
Yeah, I feel wound up by him,
every dose I have of him.
1093
00:57:07,834 --> 00:57:10,417
Which is about, say,
three hours at a time.
1094
00:57:12,292 --> 00:57:15,584
Living with him, like Simon
has, and like Paul did
1095
00:57:15,667 --> 00:57:17,667
and like Jillian has for a very
long time, I don't even...
1096
00:57:17,667 --> 00:57:19,459
I couldn't even imagine that.
1097
00:57:24,084 --> 00:57:26,209
- LAUGHING: No. Do you
know where everything is?
1098
00:57:30,417 --> 00:57:33,209
- Yeah. We do.
1099
00:57:41,459 --> 00:57:44,084
- Oh, really?
- One of those people...
1100
00:57:44,167 --> 00:57:47,334
I had really objected to,
1101
00:57:47,417 --> 00:57:50,292
because he had said in forum
that Jesus - this is verbatim -
1102
00:57:51,292 --> 00:57:54,417
Jesus Christ was a sex
pest with 12 boyfriends.
1103
00:57:55,792 --> 00:57:56,959
Do you know who
I'm talking about?
1104
00:57:57,042 --> 00:57:58,334
- No. I don't, no.
1105
00:57:58,417 --> 00:58:02,084
- If he'd said Mohammed...
and his disciples...
1106
00:58:02,167 --> 00:58:04,209
- Yeah. I would actually prefer
if you didn't actually make
1107
00:58:04,292 --> 00:58:05,834
that- uh, yeah, no.
- Mm. Yes. I know.
1108
00:58:05,834 --> 00:58:07,334
- Just, Jillian.
I mean, honestly.
1109
00:58:07,334 --> 00:58:09,084
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
— But he might have been. Well,
1110
00:58:09,167 --> 00:58:10,459
the Islamic people
wouldn't put up with it.
1111
00:58:10,459 --> 00:58:12,209
- Just, you know,
zip it. Because -
1112
00:58:12,209 --> 00:58:13,709
I'll just give you
that as advice -
1113
00:58:13,792 --> 00:58:15,334
You just don't wanna go there.
- Mm. I know, but, I mean-
1114
00:58:15,417 --> 00:58:16,834
- So no, no. I'm just
saying to you, don't.
1115
00:58:16,834 --> 00:58:18,584
For your own personal safety.
- Mm.
1116
00:58:18,584 --> 00:58:20,084
- As you're recording this,
1117
00:58:20,167 --> 00:58:21,959
then make sure
that that's exempt,
1118
00:58:21,959 --> 00:58:24,459
cos I don't want that
kind of thing being said.
1119
00:58:24,584 --> 00:58:26,209
Cos it'll take the wrong person-
1120
00:58:26,292 --> 00:58:28,209
- Mm.
- ...and you'll end up...
1121
00:58:28,292 --> 00:58:31,292
You just don't wanna
go there, OK?
1122
00:58:31,292 --> 00:58:33,209
Because there are people
out there who could manipulate
1123
00:58:33,209 --> 00:58:34,417
that comment that you just made.
1124
00:58:34,459 --> 00:58:37,084
- Mm.
- Just trust me.
1125
00:58:37,167 --> 00:58:38,584
Don't even make
any reference to it.
1126
00:58:38,584 --> 00:58:41,334
- Mm.
1127
00:58:41,417 --> 00:58:43,584
- You're not even meant to say
the name without a certain
1128
00:58:43,584 --> 00:58:45,584
preamble.
- Well...
1129
00:58:45,667 --> 00:58:47,334
- OK? Which you didn't do. And
you'll get someone potentially-
1130
00:58:47,334 --> 00:58:48,542
- It's what happens
in Paris or France.
1131
00:58:48,584 --> 00:58:50,834
- ...who'll object to that.
No, no, no, no. Don't.
1132
00:58:50,834 --> 00:58:52,209
In the context of what
we're talking about. Please.
1133
00:58:52,209 --> 00:58:54,917
- Mm.
- You know, that -
1134
00:58:54,959 --> 00:58:56,584
you just don't wanna go there.
1135
00:59:00,209 --> 00:59:01,834
- Cos, yeah, he's impossible.
1136
00:59:01,834 --> 00:59:04,042
Like, he's absolutely
impossible.
1137
00:59:06,167 --> 00:59:07,834
Um...
1138
00:59:13,334 --> 00:59:15,209
and he'll keep being fine. Like,
1139
00:59:15,209 --> 00:59:17,084
he'll keep drifting
through life doing this,
1140
00:59:17,084 --> 00:59:19,709
and it kind of works for him.
1141
00:59:19,792 --> 00:59:23,667
He's got more money than I have.
(LAUGHS) He's done pretty well.
1142
00:59:26,084 --> 00:59:27,792
So yeah. That'll do for the day.
1143
00:59:32,459 --> 00:59:36,292
So, it's 12.20 am.
1144
00:59:36,334 --> 00:59:39,834
And I'm lying awake
thinking about Michael Organ.
1145
00:59:39,834 --> 00:59:41,334
Fucking Michael Organ.
1146
00:59:43,542 --> 00:59:45,834
There's a gap in my blinds,
1147
00:59:45,834 --> 00:59:48,084
and I keep thinking
he's gonna be, um...
1148
00:59:49,709 --> 00:59:51,459
like, when I open my eyes,
1149
00:59:51,542 --> 00:59:54,209
I'll see him staring back
at me through the gap.
1150
00:59:54,209 --> 00:59:56,209
I know Michael had my key.
1151
00:59:56,209 --> 00:59:58,584
And I know somebody crept around
1152
00:59:58,667 --> 01:00:02,209
to take those signs from
the back of my house.
1153
01:00:02,209 --> 01:00:05,584
I know he's capable
of stuff like this...
1154
01:00:05,584 --> 01:00:09,417
as I find more and more cases
of people Michael's gone after.
1155
01:00:11,084 --> 01:00:13,584
There's so much.
1156
01:00:13,667 --> 01:00:14,959
Gives me a headache just
thinking about the number of
1157
01:00:15,042 --> 01:00:17,667
things to chase.
1158
01:00:17,709 --> 01:00:19,459
It's like everyone you talk to
mentions about five other
1159
01:00:19,459 --> 01:00:21,667
people's names
(LAUGHS) and says...
1160
01:00:23,667 --> 01:00:26,042
you have to talk to them.
(LAUGHS) And it's, like...
1161
01:00:26,084 --> 01:00:29,667
(GASPS) It's, like, get anxiety
just thinking about it.
1162
01:00:47,459 --> 01:00:50,459
- Hey, Michael. I'm good.
I'm good. How are you doing?
1163
01:00:57,542 --> 01:01:00,959
- Spending time with Michael
is a paradox; on one hand,
1164
01:01:01,042 --> 01:01:03,667
it's intriguing and fascinating.
1165
01:01:03,667 --> 01:01:07,084
But at the same time his stories
are so complex and impenetrable,
1166
01:01:07,167 --> 01:01:09,209
I feel like I'm getting
a lobotomy.
1167
01:01:10,792 --> 01:01:14,584
Everyone I've met talks about
this side to him - he wears you
1168
01:01:14,667 --> 01:01:18,584
down by talking for hours on
end about absolutely nothing.
1169
01:01:18,667 --> 01:01:20,042
- MICHAEL: ...and the people
would be quite capable...
1170
01:01:20,042 --> 01:01:22,709
-Absolutely nothing.
1171
01:01:22,792 --> 01:01:26,459
- MICHAEL: ...of taking probably
a successful action against me for
1172
01:01:26,459 --> 01:01:29,209
asserting them. But in this
case, if I was to assert them,
1173
01:01:29,209 --> 01:01:32,042
I've got proof.
And some of these things...
1174
01:01:32,084 --> 01:01:34,834
- You pay a soul tax every
minute you spend with
1175
01:01:34,834 --> 01:01:37,917
Michael Organ. And when those
minutes turn into days and
1176
01:01:37,959 --> 01:01:40,084
weeks, months and years...
1177
01:01:40,167 --> 01:01:41,667
well, that soul tax adds up.
1178
01:01:43,667 --> 01:01:45,084
- And a bottle. Thank you.
1179
01:01:45,167 --> 01:01:48,292
- As a film-maker, I'm used
to finding amazing subjects,
1180
01:01:48,334 --> 01:01:50,959
but this is the opposite.
Michael Organ is a black hole,
1181
01:01:51,084 --> 01:01:52,334
and I've fallen in.
1182
01:01:53,292 --> 01:01:55,459
Cos I- I- like, why...?
He's- He's...
1183
01:02:00,042 --> 01:02:01,709
(SIGHS)
1184
01:02:05,667 --> 01:02:07,459
- He's what?
- Well, I just-
1185
01:02:07,542 --> 01:02:10,042
I don't know what to do
with him. He's like a void.
1186
01:02:10,084 --> 01:02:12,709
(LAUGHS) Like...
(SNIFFS) Like, he, uh...
1187
01:02:14,209 --> 01:02:15,584
And I don't know
how to express this.
1188
01:02:15,667 --> 01:02:18,334
Like, I- I don't know
how to... Like, I don't know-
1189
01:02:18,417 --> 01:02:20,667
I don't quite understand why
he winds me up so much.
1190
01:02:20,667 --> 01:02:23,084
Like, I can spend time with,
like, a lot of dimwits, and,
1191
01:02:23,167 --> 01:02:24,584
like, a lot of people that
are boring, but it's, like,
1192
01:02:24,584 --> 01:02:26,834
I can't be in the room
with him. (SNIFFS)
1193
01:02:29,834 --> 01:02:32,292
I'm trapped. I-
It's a weird situation for me,
1194
01:02:32,334 --> 01:02:34,834
cos I'm trapped with him.
Like, if- if I was in-
1195
01:02:34,834 --> 01:02:38,417
in a friendship with him or
something, or he was a flatmate,
1196
01:02:38,459 --> 01:02:39,209
like these other people
who have encountered him,
1197
01:02:39,292 --> 01:02:41,459
I'd just leave...
- Yeah.
1198
01:02:41,542 --> 01:02:45,209
- ...and go on with my life. But
I'm literally trapped with him.
1199
01:02:45,209 --> 01:02:47,334
Cos I have to-
- You just- No, you can't.
1200
01:02:48,209 --> 01:02:50,417
- Cos I have to
make a film, right?
1201
01:02:50,459 --> 01:02:51,792
- Yep.
- So there's no out.
1202
01:02:54,209 --> 01:02:55,834
Except to spend
more time with him,
1203
01:02:55,834 --> 01:02:57,917
until something
magically happens.
1204
01:03:00,584 --> 01:03:02,292
- YEP-
1205
01:03:06,584 --> 01:03:09,709
- Well, it's- I feel stupid
being so wound up about it.
1206
01:03:11,959 --> 01:03:13,459
But it's just, like...
1207
01:03:15,209 --> 01:03:16,834
It's what, um...
1208
01:03:18,834 --> 01:03:21,292
It's like... A few people have
talked to me about this.
1209
01:03:21,292 --> 01:03:22,709
They're, like, you think
it's gonna be interesting,
1210
01:03:22,709 --> 01:03:26,459
but it's just, like, so boring,
it drives you insane.
1211
01:03:26,459 --> 01:03:29,459
And it's like, I've kind
of fucked up in...
1212
01:03:29,584 --> 01:03:31,709
like, I feel like
I fucked up in, like,
1213
01:03:31,792 --> 01:03:35,334
pitching the film in the first
place, because it's so...
1214
01:03:39,667 --> 01:03:41,709
like, it's so obvious there's
nothing there. It's, like,
1215
01:03:41,709 --> 01:03:44,834
he's a fuckwit who bores people
to death until they, like,
1216
01:03:44,834 --> 01:03:46,334
jump off a building.
1217
01:03:48,167 --> 01:03:51,459
But now I'm in his world,
he just keeps calling me.
1218
01:03:51,459 --> 01:03:53,792
And he's back to
the yacht case -
1219
01:03:53,792 --> 01:03:57,584
the one big court case
he's lost, his downfall.
1220
01:03:57,584 --> 01:04:01,459
- MICHAEL: I want, at some
stage, to get that, um,
1221
01:04:01,459 --> 01:04:04,292
the convictions pertaining
to the yacht overturned.
1222
01:04:04,334 --> 01:04:05,542
Now, I'll tell you
this for a fact -
1223
01:04:05,584 --> 01:04:08,459
if I had represented
myself in that,
1224
01:04:08,459 --> 01:04:09,917
- OK...
- Who was your lawyer in that,
1225
01:04:09,959 --> 01:04:11,584
um, case again?
1226
01:04:13,084 --> 01:04:15,834
- Um...
1227
01:04:23,917 --> 01:04:25,459
- YEP-
1228
01:04:25,459 --> 01:04:27,667
- So, has he got
some sort of disorder,
1229
01:04:27,709 --> 01:04:30,084
or is he just a bit
out there, or...?
1230
01:04:30,084 --> 01:04:32,459
What do you think his deal is?
1231
01:04:32,459 --> 01:04:33,959
Cos I've been spending
a lot of time with him,
1232
01:04:34,042 --> 01:04:37,834
and I cannot make heads or tails
of what's going on in his brain.
1233
01:04:55,584 --> 01:04:57,209
But, uh...
1234
01:05:31,584 --> 01:05:34,167
- So Michael's brother
is a real lawyer,
1235
01:05:34,167 --> 01:05:36,834
Dean Organ.
1236
01:05:36,834 --> 01:05:39,334
I'd actually contacted him
when I was trying to find
1237
01:05:39,417 --> 01:05:41,667
the fake lawyer -
the mysterious MDA Organ.
1238
01:05:43,584 --> 01:05:45,959
Back then, Dean hadn't
been forthcoming.
1239
01:05:49,084 --> 01:05:51,334
And all he said was
something like,
1240
01:05:51,334 --> 01:05:54,209
'Don't know anything
about this.' (SCOFFS)
1241
01:05:54,209 --> 01:05:56,459
It would have been
nice if he'd said...
1242
01:05:56,459 --> 01:05:58,042
'That's my brother.'
1243
01:05:59,042 --> 01:06:01,209
Now I know he's family,
1244
01:06:01,209 --> 01:06:03,417
maybe he can provide
some insight.
1245
01:06:03,459 --> 01:06:05,667
I drive to his office,
1246
01:06:05,709 --> 01:06:07,709
which appears to
be just his house.
1247
01:06:07,792 --> 01:06:09,459
(KNOCKS AT DOOR)
1248
01:06:13,459 --> 01:06:16,209
- Oh, hey, Dean. I'm David.
1249
01:06:16,209 --> 01:06:18,292
- Yeah.
1250
01:06:20,459 --> 01:06:23,459
- OK, I can... I've...
1251
01:06:23,459 --> 01:06:25,292
been looking into your brother,
Michael, for some time...
1252
01:06:29,709 --> 01:06:31,542
- Yeah, no. I understood.
Yeah, understood.
1253
01:06:33,792 --> 01:06:35,209
- Yeah. I definitely don't
wanna create any angst.
1254
01:06:36,709 --> 01:06:37,292
- Yeah.
1255
01:06:39,084 --> 01:06:40,292
- No, and I certainly
don't mean-
1256
01:06:42,542 --> 01:06:45,959
- No, no. Cos what I'm trying
to do is try and figure out...
1257
01:06:47,834 --> 01:06:50,459
- I'm trying to learn about who
Michael is, because the effect-
1258
01:06:50,459 --> 01:06:52,209
- ...Michael's had on people
1259
01:06:52,209 --> 01:06:53,667
over the years is
what I'm interested in.
1260
01:06:56,084 --> 01:06:57,334
- OK.
1261
01:07:01,584 --> 01:07:02,417
- Yeah, I'm with you.
1262
01:07:05,084 --> 01:07:06,917
- Well, when I emailed
you as a journalist -
1263
01:07:06,959 --> 01:07:09,667
I guess my issue was I emailed
you saying, you know,
1264
01:07:09,709 --> 01:07:12,459
there's an Organ that's saying
he's a lawyer; is this you?
1265
01:07:12,584 --> 01:07:14,917
And I guess, what would
be so helpful at that point,
1266
01:07:14,959 --> 01:07:16,667
when I'm looking into something,
is for you to go,
1267
01:07:16,709 --> 01:07:18,792
'It's not me,
but it's my brother,
1268
01:07:20,959 --> 01:07:22,709
'and maybe just be wary,'
or something, I don't know.
1269
01:07:22,709 --> 01:07:24,667
It was just...
1270
01:07:38,167 --> 01:07:39,667
(PHONE LINE RINGS)
1271
01:07:43,417 --> 01:07:45,084
- Hello.
- Oh, hey. Is that Albert?
1272
01:07:46,584 --> 01:07:48,084
- Speaking.
- Oh, hey. It's-
1273
01:07:48,209 --> 01:07:49,834
My name's David Farrier.
1274
01:07:49,917 --> 01:07:52,584
I'm a documentary film-maker
based in New Zealand.
1275
01:07:52,584 --> 01:07:54,459
How are you?
- Fine, thank you.
1276
01:07:55,292 --> 01:07:56,834
- Good. Hey, look, it's a...
1277
01:07:56,834 --> 01:07:59,459
a bit of an obscure phone call
to get out of the blue, but
1278
01:07:59,459 --> 01:08:01,459
I've... I'm... I'm making a
1279
01:08:01,459 --> 01:08:03,834
documentary about Michael Organ.
1280
01:08:05,459 --> 01:08:07,667
- Ah, that'll do, thank you.
1281
01:08:07,667 --> 01:08:10,584
- You don't -
I'm just trying to...
1282
01:08:10,667 --> 01:08:12,834
I'm just trying to figure-
- No, thank you, um, I know.
1283
01:08:12,834 --> 01:08:16,084
I know your name,
and I know your reputation.
1284
01:08:16,084 --> 01:08:19,709
And I'll leave it at that. Don't
phone here again. Thank you.
1285
01:08:19,792 --> 01:08:22,292
- I just wanna try and figure
out why your son is doing what
1286
01:08:22,334 --> 01:08:23,959
he's doing.
- (PHONE LINE BEEPS)
1287
01:08:25,792 --> 01:08:28,542
All right. I guess that's
a 'no' from the parents.
1288
01:08:29,667 --> 01:08:32,667
It's about his brother Michael.
It's a weird one.
1289
01:08:32,792 --> 01:08:34,667
I'm the guy that was,
um... I'm David.
1290
01:08:34,667 --> 01:08:36,417
- I was writing about him a
1291
01:08:36,417 --> 01:08:37,875
little bit. But I-
- Yeah. I don't- Look,
1292
01:08:39,667 --> 01:08:41,875
- No, no. And that's
totally valid and fair.
1293
01:08:41,875 --> 01:08:44,500
And I just wanted to reach out-
1294
01:09:01,500 --> 01:09:03,750
- Yeah, she just felt...
It didn't feel... She was...
1295
01:09:03,792 --> 01:09:06,292
I think she was
different to Dean.
1296
01:09:06,292 --> 01:09:08,500
She was more, like,
just pained by it.
1297
01:09:08,542 --> 01:09:10,042
Like, she was just, like,
'Oh, make this go away,'
1298
01:09:10,042 --> 01:09:11,667
was kind of her vibe.
1299
01:09:11,750 --> 01:09:15,042
And not necessarily to protect
the family, but just, like,
1300
01:09:15,042 --> 01:09:17,250
kind of got the vibe that
Michael had been a real
1301
01:09:17,292 --> 01:09:19,042
fucking arsehole or something.
1302
01:09:20,375 --> 01:09:22,792
She just felt a bit
more damaged.
1303
01:09:22,875 --> 01:09:25,875
She didn't feel like
she was being devious.
1304
01:09:25,917 --> 01:09:27,625
Um...
1305
01:09:29,250 --> 01:09:32,917
like, Dean was just straight-up
making me the bad guy -
1306
01:09:33,000 --> 01:09:34,792
there was none of that from her.
She was just, like, 'I think,
1307
01:09:34,875 --> 01:09:35,875
'like, oh, this is just awful.
You should leave it.'
1308
01:09:40,542 --> 01:09:42,292
Yeah.
1309
01:09:45,292 --> 01:09:47,750
(PHONE LINE RINGS)
1310
01:09:47,750 --> 01:09:50,792
MICHAEL: David, I can't talk
now. Can you hear me?
1311
01:09:53,417 --> 01:09:55,792
Can you hear me?
- I can. I can hear you.
1312
01:09:55,875 --> 01:09:59,667
- It's a council-related
meeting, so we can't talk.
1313
01:09:59,667 --> 01:10:02,000
- Oh. Oh.
- So call back after 2.
1314
01:10:02,042 --> 01:10:03,750
- OK. I'll call
you back after 2.
1315
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:08,667
Um, so if Michael is in
a council meeting till 2,
1316
01:10:09,625 --> 01:10:11,542
that means Jillian might
be home on her own.
1317
01:10:11,625 --> 01:10:14,917
So I think it's worth
just going over and...
1318
01:10:15,000 --> 01:10:16,792
seeing if I can talk to her
without Michael there,
1319
01:10:16,875 --> 01:10:18,792
which would be... like, a gift.
1320
01:10:21,375 --> 01:10:22,875
I think that's it.
1321
01:10:23,875 --> 01:10:25,375
Is that the front door?
1322
01:10:27,750 --> 01:10:29,375
I guess it is.
1323
01:10:31,042 --> 01:10:32,750
Hello!
1324
01:10:39,250 --> 01:10:40,750
(MYSTERIOUS MUSIC)
1325
01:10:41,875 --> 01:10:43,292
I wonder if there's any...
1326
01:10:46,917 --> 01:10:48,667
(SIGHS)
1327
01:10:51,000 --> 01:10:52,542
No one home.
1328
01:10:56,042 --> 01:10:57,625
Hey, Michael.
1329
01:10:58,917 --> 01:11:01,667
- Hey, um, you might
wanna film me doing this.
1330
01:11:01,667 --> 01:11:03,667
I'm just serving you with that.
- OK.
1331
01:11:03,667 --> 01:11:05,875
- OK.
- Because I didn't trust you
1332
01:11:05,917 --> 01:11:09,667
before, I was going to serve you
at the last meeting. You've...
1333
01:11:09,750 --> 01:11:10,667
- OK. Oh, so this is a
trespass notice for your house.
1334
01:11:10,667 --> 01:11:12,042
- I'll explain why to you.
1335
01:11:13,917 --> 01:11:15,167
OK?
1336
01:11:15,167 --> 01:11:16,000
- Wanted to go and
catch up with Jillian.
1337
01:11:16,042 --> 01:11:18,500
-You...
1338
01:11:18,542 --> 01:11:20,042
— But no one was
home, so we left.
1339
01:11:21,500 --> 01:11:23,250
- You're actually
crossing the line.
1340
01:11:23,292 --> 01:11:25,875
Your excuses are that you're
1341
01:11:25,875 --> 01:11:27,667
giving us the right to reply.
1342
01:11:28,750 --> 01:11:31,417
My reply to you is you
can get fucked. OK?
1343
01:11:32,667 --> 01:11:34,417
Actually, you are quite-
- You know you know we've been
1344
01:11:34,417 --> 01:11:37,417
filming this
documentary with you.
1345
01:11:37,417 --> 01:11:39,792
- You are quite prepared-
- And you've been very hot and
1346
01:11:39,792 --> 01:11:42,917
cold on it.
- You are quite prepared-
1347
01:11:42,917 --> 01:11:45,667
- And this is the cold bit.
- You are quite prepared to
1348
01:11:45,750 --> 01:11:47,292
override...
1349
01:11:48,292 --> 01:11:50,917
law...
1350
01:11:51,000 --> 01:11:54,917
by committing conversion.
As the court said...
1351
01:11:55,000 --> 01:11:57,875
- I find it really had to trust
anything you tell me, because
1352
01:11:57,875 --> 01:12:00,042
even the simplest thing-
- I'm not interested, David,
1353
01:12:00,042 --> 01:12:02,542
because you're not
interested in the truth.
1354
01:12:02,625 --> 01:12:03,917
It's shown because of the shit
that you misled Parliament with.
1355
01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:05,417
-I am.
1356
01:12:06,667 --> 01:12:08,792
I didn't mislead Parliament.
— You misled Parliament.
1357
01:12:08,792 --> 01:12:12,792
- I've got you on camera saying
that you were charging $760,
1358
01:12:12,875 --> 01:12:16,042
uh, to remove a clamp. I've got
footage of you saying that.
1359
01:12:16,042 --> 01:12:18,125
You've been continuously telling
me that you never said it -
1360
01:12:18,125 --> 01:12:19,875
I've got it.
- It wasn't for a clamp;
1361
01:12:19,917 --> 01:12:22,292
it was for two clamps.
1362
01:12:22,292 --> 01:12:23,667
- OK, it was for two clamps;
not one clamp - for two.
1363
01:12:23,750 --> 01:12:26,042
- Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
- Oh, OK.
1364
01:12:26,042 --> 01:12:27,875
It's like, I know you stole that
yacht, like I know those-
1365
01:12:27,917 --> 01:12:30,042
- Well, I didn't.
- ...signatures were forged,
1366
01:12:30,042 --> 01:12:31,792
and I know you removed the
yacht - like, that's a fact.
1367
01:12:31,875 --> 01:12:34,542
- Pardon?
- Like, you stole that yacht -
1368
01:12:34,542 --> 01:12:36,750
like, that's just that a fact,
1369
01:12:36,792 --> 01:12:38,250
and so when you're
continuously calling me-
1370
01:12:38,292 --> 01:12:39,792
- No, I didn't, David.
1371
01:12:41,042 --> 01:12:43,167
- It was you, Michael.
- It wasn't.
1372
01:12:43,250 --> 01:12:45,750
- It was you. Come on.
- You can say it as much as...
1373
01:12:45,792 --> 01:12:47,917
as you like - it's supposition,
and it's false.
1374
01:12:47,917 --> 01:12:50,917
- That's all you're doing.
I think you go through life
1375
01:12:50,917 --> 01:12:52,792
creating your own version
of reality continuously.
1376
01:12:52,792 --> 01:12:56,125
- No. Unless you are
calling a Jillian a liar.
1377
01:12:56,125 --> 01:12:58,792
Jillian has stated that-
- I'm talking about you.
1378
01:12:58,792 --> 01:13:01,417
Before we part ways, do you
wanna have a coffee, with just-
1379
01:13:01,417 --> 01:13:03,250
a casual coffee and
a relax before we take off?
1380
01:13:03,292 --> 01:13:05,167
- Ah, yeah. That's fine.
1381
01:13:05,167 --> 01:13:06,792
That's fine.
1382
01:13:07,917 --> 01:13:10,042
- Let's just have a nice coffee.
1383
01:13:10,042 --> 01:13:12,042
What sort of coffee
would you like?
1384
01:13:14,875 --> 01:13:17,125
- Probably an Irish
one after this, but-
1385
01:13:17,125 --> 01:13:20,000
- (LAUGHS)
- Excuse me, just for a moment.
1386
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:23,167
- No, get in there.
- Hello. Michael speaking.
1387
01:13:23,250 --> 01:13:25,417
- How did you meet Michael?
- Pardon?
1388
01:13:25,417 --> 01:13:26,750
- How did you meet Michael?
- Yes.
1389
01:13:26,792 --> 01:13:29,042
- Oh, Michael was a, um,
1390
01:13:29,042 --> 01:13:31,875
customer, a client, who came in
1391
01:13:31,917 --> 01:13:33,875
to buy antiques in
the... in the store.
1392
01:13:33,875 --> 01:13:35,875
- Right.
- Ah, sorry.
1393
01:13:35,875 --> 01:13:38,542
- Sorry-I.
1394
01:13:38,542 --> 01:13:42,167
Well, we're just- Could we come
down and see you? Is that OK?
1395
01:13:42,250 --> 01:13:44,250
- What was your
first impression?
1396
01:13:44,292 --> 01:13:45,750
- Oh, that he was
very knowledgeable.
1397
01:13:45,792 --> 01:13:47,917
- OK. Well, that's good.
Thank you.
1398
01:13:48,750 --> 01:13:50,625
- Very informed buyer.
1399
01:13:50,667 --> 01:13:51,750
- Mm.
- Mm.
1400
01:13:51,792 --> 01:13:54,625
Did you ever lie, Michael,
about anything?
1401
01:13:54,667 --> 01:13:56,250
- That, um...
1402
01:13:59,667 --> 01:14:02,292
is not relevant.
Nor is it your business.
1403
01:14:02,375 --> 01:14:04,792
- It's pretty relevant.
- I would say that that
1404
01:14:04,792 --> 01:14:06,792
would be a no.
- No, it was pretty relevant.
1405
01:14:06,792 --> 01:14:08,542
You're calling
other people liars a lot.
1406
01:14:08,625 --> 01:14:10,917
You've called me a liar, called
a lot of other people liars.
1407
01:14:10,917 --> 01:14:12,917
- No, I said you've been
dishonest, and that you've-
1408
01:14:13,000 --> 01:14:15,250
- Oh Christ.
- ...hidden the truth from
1409
01:14:15,250 --> 01:14:17,417
people.
- Yeah.
1410
01:14:17,417 --> 01:14:20,167
Yeah, I don't know. It's just...
1411
01:14:20,167 --> 01:14:23,875
I just- You accuse a lot of
other people of a lot of things;
1412
01:14:23,875 --> 01:14:25,417
that's all.
- Oh, if someone testifies
1413
01:14:25,417 --> 01:14:27,917
falsely in court,
then they're a bloody liar.
1414
01:14:28,000 --> 01:14:31,417
- Right. But you've never lied?
- And it's evil.
1415
01:14:31,417 --> 01:14:33,417
- In what context?
- Just in life, you know.
1416
01:14:34,292 --> 01:14:36,250
- As I said to you,
I'm not answering that;
1417
01:14:36,250 --> 01:14:38,292
it's none of...
of your business.
1418
01:14:38,292 --> 01:14:41,792
- If I'm totally honest
with you, Michael...
1419
01:14:41,875 --> 01:14:43,875
- You're sounding like
you're a little bit piqued.
1420
01:14:43,875 --> 01:14:45,375
- I find it, like...
1421
01:14:46,542 --> 01:14:48,667
It- It's frustrating...
1422
01:14:48,667 --> 01:14:50,917
spending all this time with you,
1423
01:14:50,917 --> 01:14:52,917
because you do,
1424
01:14:52,917 --> 01:14:56,000
continuously...
1425
01:14:56,042 --> 01:14:59,542
lie... about everything.
1426
01:14:59,625 --> 01:15:01,792
- No.
- And I mean everything.
1427
01:15:01,792 --> 01:15:05,417
I haven't been around
someone like you before,
1428
01:15:05,500 --> 01:15:07,250
that does continuously lie.
- What are you wanting me to do?
1429
01:15:07,250 --> 01:15:09,375
Are you wanting me
to say I stole a yacht,
1430
01:15:09,417 --> 01:15:11,875
when I didn't steal a yacht?
1431
01:15:11,917 --> 01:15:15,042
- Is there anything else,
Jillian, you wanted to add,
1432
01:15:15,042 --> 01:15:16,667
to any of this discussion?
— Well, I can't think, really.
1433
01:15:16,667 --> 01:15:19,417
- Well, could
I ever talk to you,
1434
01:15:19,417 --> 01:15:22,542
just on your own, just to get
your take on everything?
1435
01:15:23,917 --> 01:15:25,917
- Well, not at the
moment. I can't...
1436
01:15:29,792 --> 01:15:31,875
- Cos I feel I've
talked to Michael a lot,
1437
01:15:31,917 --> 01:15:34,542
but I'd love to talk to
you at some point, um...
1438
01:15:38,042 --> 01:15:39,625
if you're open to that.
1439
01:15:43,292 --> 01:15:45,875
- Well, not at the moment. Not
today. It's all too much today.
1440
01:15:45,875 --> 01:15:48,167
- Yeah.
1441
01:15:48,167 --> 01:15:50,167
- The, um...
If you want to sometime,
1442
01:15:50,250 --> 01:15:52,000
that would be really neat.
- Mm.
1443
01:15:54,375 --> 01:15:57,042
- I've heard from a lot of
people that you've come into
1444
01:15:57,125 --> 01:15:59,875
contact with over the
years, that you have...
1445
01:15:59,875 --> 01:16:01,875
moved in on, in a fairly
1446
01:16:01,875 --> 01:16:05,417
systematic way to,
1447
01:16:05,417 --> 01:16:08,417
sort of, ingratiate yourself
into their- their lives.
1448
01:16:08,500 --> 01:16:10,875
And... I think you've-
- What a load of codswallop!
1449
01:16:10,917 --> 01:16:14,000
- I think you've left people
behind who are, um,
1450
01:16:14,042 --> 01:16:15,500
incredibly damaged.
1451
01:16:17,042 --> 01:16:20,125
- Oh, what a load of rubbish!
1452
01:16:21,292 --> 01:16:22,792
- JILLIAN: Who are these people?
- And who are...?
1453
01:16:22,875 --> 01:16:26,125
It's absolute twaddle.
1454
01:16:27,292 --> 01:16:30,667
Rubbish. Absolute rubbish...
1455
01:16:32,750 --> 01:16:35,042
you know?
- Someone like Brent Lewis.
1456
01:16:35,042 --> 01:16:36,750
Do you- Do you know Brent Lewis?
1457
01:16:38,250 --> 01:16:41,042
He owned- owned a bookstore,
Nostromo Books.
1458
01:16:42,667 --> 01:16:44,417
- He was a very
good friend of...
1459
01:16:44,750 --> 01:16:46,417
of ours.
1460
01:16:59,542 --> 01:17:02,417
- Yeah, right. Right,
right, right. I'm with you.
1461
01:17:20,375 --> 01:17:22,417
- Right. Right, right, right.
1462
01:17:31,542 --> 01:17:34,917
- Yeah, yeah. I'm with you.
1463
01:17:45,542 --> 01:17:47,792
- Right. So that's
where he met Organ?
1464
01:17:47,792 --> 01:17:49,417
- Yeah. Yep.
1465
01:17:51,667 --> 01:17:53,792
- The story, as I recall it, um,
1466
01:17:54,417 --> 01:17:56,417
was that...
1467
01:17:56,417 --> 01:17:59,292
Brent had been given...
I think it was a model yacht...
1468
01:17:59,417 --> 01:18:03,542
to put on display in his
shop window. And, uh,
1469
01:18:03,625 --> 01:18:06,917
Michael Organ then had taken
a complaint to the police
1470
01:18:07,000 --> 01:18:10,292
that Brent had stolen it.
Now, I know Brent -
1471
01:18:10,375 --> 01:18:12,250
Brent didn't steal anything.
(LAUGHS) You know?
1472
01:18:12,250 --> 01:18:14,417
Um, he was totally honest.
1473
01:18:15,250 --> 01:18:17,042
Uh, and it was causing him
1474
01:18:17,042 --> 01:18:18,667
real anxiety.
1475
01:18:20,500 --> 01:18:23,042
- I think, Michael Organ - he...
1476
01:18:23,042 --> 01:18:24,542
accused him of...
1477
01:18:25,250 --> 01:18:27,542
stealing some model boat;
1478
01:18:27,625 --> 01:18:30,167
it arose out of something
as simple as that.
1479
01:18:31,292 --> 01:18:34,667
And he accused Brent,
and he worked on him
1480
01:18:34,750 --> 01:18:37,000
psychologically.
1481
01:18:37,042 --> 01:18:40,000
He was very fearful of him -
1482
01:18:40,042 --> 01:18:43,250
he was fearful.
He thought that he would...
1483
01:18:43,250 --> 01:18:46,875
that he would
cause him some harm;
1484
01:18:46,875 --> 01:18:48,875
get at him some way
1485
01:18:48,875 --> 01:18:51,250
and cause him harm.
1486
01:18:51,250 --> 01:18:54,167
It's really all I can
say about it, I think.
1487
01:18:54,250 --> 01:18:56,667
Mm.
- Was there anything,
1488
01:18:56,667 --> 01:18:59,125
any friends could do around
him? Like, what was your...
1489
01:18:59,125 --> 01:19:01,417
what was your take that you
could sort of do, you know?
1490
01:19:01,417 --> 01:19:03,167
Cos it's hard to know
how to deal with someone
1491
01:19:03,167 --> 01:19:04,667
when they're
scared of something,
1492
01:19:04,667 --> 01:19:07,417
and you really don't
know whether that's...
1493
01:19:07,500 --> 01:19:09,750
valid or not.
- Well, it was... (SIGHS)
1494
01:19:10,750 --> 01:19:12,792
It had to be valid,
because he...
1495
01:19:12,792 --> 01:19:15,917
he felt it.
1496
01:19:15,917 --> 01:19:18,250
- I just remember the...
1497
01:19:18,292 --> 01:19:21,667
the haunted look in
Brent's eyes when he-
1498
01:19:21,667 --> 01:19:24,167
when he talked about this.
Nothing like this had happened
1499
01:19:24,167 --> 01:19:28,250
to him before. He was on
medication to deal with it.
1500
01:19:28,875 --> 01:19:32,292
Uh, but for reasons that
we don't clearly understand -
1501
01:19:32,292 --> 01:19:34,542
one night, um, I remember it,
1502
01:19:34,625 --> 01:19:37,417
back in 2009. I'd seen
him just a week earlier;
1503
01:19:38,667 --> 01:19:40,792
He was staying in a
flat on Symonds St,
1504
01:19:41,375 --> 01:19:43,542
on the seventh floor.
1505
01:19:43,542 --> 01:19:45,542
And he went on to the
balcony and jumped off,
1506
01:19:45,542 --> 01:19:47,542
and that's how he lost his life.
1507
01:19:54,667 --> 01:19:57,792
I remember sadly looking at
the...
1508
01:19:57,792 --> 01:20:00,000
the hollow in the ground that
had been left by the impact of
1509
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:02,250
his body when he jumped...
1510
01:20:02,292 --> 01:20:03,917
and just the overwhelming
feeling, 'Brent,
1511
01:20:03,917 --> 01:20:06,625
'what was in your head that
things had become so bad,
1512
01:20:06,667 --> 01:20:08,750
'that you thought
you had to do this?'
1513
01:20:13,750 --> 01:20:17,375
- MAN: Now, in his bookshop,
1514
01:20:49,667 --> 01:20:52,667
- Watching Organ being talked
about at Brent's funeral is
1515
01:20:52,667 --> 01:20:56,292
surreal; this whole story I've
just been told is surreal.
1516
01:20:57,667 --> 01:21:00,292
That Organ accused Brent of the
crime he himself had carried
1517
01:21:00,375 --> 01:21:01,875
out - stealing a yacht.
1518
01:21:08,417 --> 01:21:11,250
It seems almost
poetic, in a way.
1519
01:21:11,250 --> 01:21:13,417
But it's not poetic.
It's horrible.
1520
01:21:16,875 --> 01:21:20,000
- And I just think it's to
do with Michael Organ's...
1521
01:21:21,375 --> 01:21:24,792
uh, psychological interest
1522
01:21:24,875 --> 01:21:27,167
in manipulating Brent,
1523
01:21:27,167 --> 01:21:28,917
because he saw him
as a ready victim.
1524
01:21:31,250 --> 01:21:35,167
And he got into Brent's mind
1525
01:21:35,167 --> 01:21:37,000
and, to a degree, dominated him.
1526
01:21:39,625 --> 01:21:43,542
- The Germans have that term,
you know, dark mind, that, uh,
1527
01:21:43,542 --> 01:21:47,792
people get a satisfaction from
spreading misery or seeing,
1528
01:21:47,792 --> 01:21:49,917
um...
1529
01:21:49,917 --> 01:21:51,542
um, somebody...
1530
01:21:53,292 --> 01:21:55,417
in some form of...
1531
01:21:55,500 --> 01:21:58,417
what they see is crisis
or whatever.
1532
01:21:58,500 --> 01:22:01,292
- Oh, that sounds awful. Yeah.
1533
01:22:01,417 --> 01:22:04,292
'Suddenly, all the conversations
I've had with Michael
1534
01:22:04,292 --> 01:22:05,875
'start to make sense.'
1535
01:22:07,417 --> 01:22:10,625
— Sometimes people,
when you know them,
1536
01:22:10,625 --> 01:22:13,625
or they get close to you,
1537
01:22:13,667 --> 01:22:16,417
or in your circle through
other people you know
1538
01:22:17,000 --> 01:22:18,750
may actually be-
1539
01:22:18,792 --> 01:22:20,500
I don't use the term wolves
in sheep's clothing,
1540
01:22:20,542 --> 01:22:22,792
but that's what they
can actually be.
1541
01:22:27,500 --> 01:22:29,875
You know, they can even sit
there, they can eat your food,
1542
01:22:29,875 --> 01:22:33,042
they can sit at the table
with you, share your wine...
1543
01:22:36,292 --> 01:22:39,542
they can smile when they
greet you - they can...
1544
01:22:39,542 --> 01:22:41,292
all those things.
- These people are amongst us.
1545
01:22:41,375 --> 01:22:44,250
- And at the end of the
day, there is that side...
1546
01:22:44,250 --> 01:22:45,875
to some people.
1547
01:22:49,042 --> 01:22:52,417
- For years, I've been trying
to get Michael Organ to tell
1548
01:22:52,417 --> 01:22:56,125
me who's behind all the crazy
stuff I've been discovering.
1549
01:22:56,125 --> 01:22:58,417
- And I, to this day,
1550
01:22:58,542 --> 01:23:00,792
do not know what the
name of that man is.
1551
01:23:00,792 --> 01:23:03,667
But if I was lined up, I could
pick him out of any crowd.
1552
01:23:05,667 --> 01:23:08,500
If I told you what the person
looked like and how he spoke,
1553
01:23:10,417 --> 01:23:13,042
um, then you would be able
to ascertain who it was,
1554
01:23:13,125 --> 01:23:15,667
I would think.
1555
01:23:15,667 --> 01:23:18,792
- Of course I could,
because I think they're all him.
1556
01:23:20,667 --> 01:23:23,292
It's my theory that anyone
Michael doesn't name
1557
01:23:23,375 --> 01:23:25,000
is himself.
1558
01:23:26,417 --> 01:23:29,542
- The person who
provided that key...
1559
01:23:31,000 --> 01:23:33,792
um, would expect
confidentiality.
1560
01:23:33,792 --> 01:23:36,667
It wasn't promised them,
but they'd expect it.
1561
01:23:36,792 --> 01:23:39,417
And they're not the kinds
of people you wanna cross.
1562
01:23:39,417 --> 01:23:41,667
- He knew who stole my key,
1563
01:23:41,667 --> 01:23:43,417
the same way he knew who
sent those legal threats
1564
01:23:44,167 --> 01:23:46,500
from Jillian's email account.
1565
01:23:46,542 --> 01:23:50,167
- Urn, you may have an
inkling who it is. But that...
1566
01:23:50,167 --> 01:23:52,125
- No, I don't.
- ...I'LL disclose later.
1567
01:23:52,167 --> 01:23:54,875
- 'And Michael
gets very specific,
1568
01:23:54,875 --> 01:23:58,625
'telling me the person who set
him up spelled his name wrong.'
1569
01:23:58,667 --> 01:24:01,417
- A tell with it was
that what was written...
1570
01:24:03,292 --> 01:24:04,250
um, one of the things
that was written,
1571
01:24:04,292 --> 01:24:05,750
someone spelled my name wrong -
1572
01:24:05,792 --> 01:24:09,042
I think they put E-A-L
instead of A-E-L.
1573
01:24:09,042 --> 01:24:13,750
- But Michael's been signing his
own name like this for decades.
1574
01:24:13,792 --> 01:24:15,250
(EERIE MUSIC)
1575
01:24:17,500 --> 01:24:19,417
And, of course,
Michael Organ had told me
1576
01:24:19,417 --> 01:24:22,542
he knew who'd
harassed Brent Lewis;
1577
01:24:22,625 --> 01:24:24,917
it was someone who
sounded very familiar.
1578
01:24:27,042 --> 01:24:30,042
- And it was very strange,
because there was a lawyer -
1579
01:24:30,042 --> 01:24:33,042
all I remember's he said he was
a lawyer - I never had his name.
1580
01:24:33,125 --> 01:24:35,875
And...
he started
1581
01:24:35,917 --> 01:24:39,750
becoming involved in doing
this weird stuff with Brett,
1582
01:24:39,792 --> 01:24:42,417
and...
1583
01:24:42,417 --> 01:24:43,792
when I first saw him,
he was quite disheveled -
1584
01:24:45,042 --> 01:24:47,000
and not that lawyers can't
be disheveled - but I thought,
1585
01:24:47,042 --> 01:24:50,042
'Is this guy actually a lawyer?'
And I thought at the time,
1586
01:24:50,125 --> 01:24:51,667
he seemed very dodgy.
1587
01:24:53,417 --> 01:24:54,750
- So, who is this guy,
this disheveled guy?
1588
01:24:54,792 --> 01:24:57,542
- I don't know his name.
Never knew his name.
1589
01:24:59,542 --> 01:25:02,125
- 'Even in our
very last meeting,
1590
01:25:02,167 --> 01:25:05,542
'he started making allegations
about someone else.'
1591
01:25:05,542 --> 01:25:08,792
- The police referred
to him as predatory.
1592
01:25:08,792 --> 01:25:11,875
So as soon as I heard that,
I thought, 'That's it.'
1593
01:25:11,917 --> 01:25:13,667
- Right.
1594
01:25:14,875 --> 01:25:17,667
- (LAUGHS) We don't
do predatory. (LAUGHS)
1595
01:25:21,667 --> 01:25:23,667
I wonder who we're
talking about, eh?
1596
01:25:23,750 --> 01:25:27,042
Because you and I know we both
know who we're talking about.
1597
01:25:27,042 --> 01:25:30,250
- I've got a suspicion of
who we're talking about.
1598
01:25:30,292 --> 01:25:31,917
- (LAUGHS) Yes.
1599
01:25:38,292 --> 01:25:39,917
(TENSE MUSIC)
1600
01:25:43,875 --> 01:25:47,000
- I thought all my time with
Michael had been wasted,
1601
01:25:47,042 --> 01:25:49,667
that I'd learned nothing.
But the truth is,
1602
01:25:49,667 --> 01:25:51,542
Michael had been
telling me about himself
1603
01:25:51,542 --> 01:25:54,375
from the first day I met him.
1604
01:25:54,375 --> 01:25:57,042
He's a man almost
detached from his own body;
1605
01:25:57,042 --> 01:26:00,375
occupying this unique
place in society,
1606
01:26:00,417 --> 01:26:02,875
free from consequence,
free from the law -
1607
01:26:02,875 --> 01:26:05,167
free to do whatever
he wants to people.
1608
01:26:11,292 --> 01:26:14,875
I've been trespassed from all
Michael's properties now - well,
1609
01:26:14,875 --> 01:26:17,375
his and Jillian's.
Their house, the bank -
1610
01:26:17,375 --> 01:26:19,417
it's all off-limits.
1611
01:26:19,500 --> 01:26:21,875
But there's one place I can go;
1612
01:26:21,917 --> 01:26:24,167
another place Michael lived,
1613
01:26:24,167 --> 01:26:25,542
up until a few months ago.
1614
01:26:28,667 --> 01:26:31,042
While I'll never understand
Michael's mind,
1615
01:26:31,042 --> 01:26:33,292
maybe this place
will provide answers.
1616
01:26:39,167 --> 01:26:41,542
Kingseat was an old
psychiatric hospital,
1617
01:26:41,542 --> 01:26:43,750
originally opening back in 1932.
1618
01:26:46,125 --> 01:26:50,000
Patients would later complain
of abuse, tiny locked rooms,
1619
01:26:50,000 --> 01:26:53,042
deadbolts on the doors,
physical and mental torture.
1620
01:26:55,667 --> 01:26:58,167
It shut down in 1999.
1621
01:26:58,167 --> 01:27:01,292
But some people still
choose to live out here —
1622
01:27:01,292 --> 01:27:03,250
cheap rent, sprawling grounds.
1623
01:27:06,292 --> 01:27:09,292
Michael lived in one of
the old psychiatric wards.
1624
01:27:11,417 --> 01:27:13,417
I wonder what he left behind...
1625
01:27:14,667 --> 01:27:16,125
who he left behind.
1626
01:27:21,375 --> 01:27:25,125
- Yeah, well, see, he had
most of this whole interior
1627
01:27:25,167 --> 01:27:28,250
of the villa to himself,
cos he was the...
1628
01:27:30,000 --> 01:27:32,667
head tenant. So he was
letting out rooms to people,
1629
01:27:32,667 --> 01:27:34,167
getting them in
to rent and that.
1630
01:27:34,250 --> 01:27:36,750
So...
1631
01:27:36,792 --> 01:27:38,042
this is, sort of, where
the foyer is, urn, yes.
1632
01:27:39,167 --> 01:27:41,292
- This is all- It's a big place.
- Yeah. Well,
1633
01:27:41,375 --> 01:27:43,250
they had a lot of people here
at once, you know - they'd have
1634
01:27:43,292 --> 01:27:45,167
50 to a hundred people.
They'd bring them in here
1635
01:27:45,250 --> 01:27:47,292
when they were running
the mental hospital.
1636
01:27:47,292 --> 01:27:50,667
- So, where did he used to live?
Where was his room?
1637
01:27:50,750 --> 01:27:52,000
- This is upstairs. We'll go
upstairs and have a look.
1638
01:27:52,042 --> 01:27:54,875
I'll show you where he had
his bedroom and their kitchen
1639
01:27:54,917 --> 01:27:56,875
and their lounge and that sort
of thing. But he used to like to
1640
01:27:56,917 --> 01:28:00,000
spend most of his time dwelling
around other people's areas -
1641
01:28:00,000 --> 01:28:02,875
being a parasite,
he would come into their area.
1642
01:28:06,042 --> 01:28:09,125
It's been tidied up a lot. A
bloody mess of a pigsty he had.
1643
01:28:09,167 --> 01:28:11,167
- (CHUCKLES) Yeah.
1644
01:28:11,250 --> 01:28:13,250
- You know, he poisoned me off.
1645
01:28:13,292 --> 01:28:15,417
He left me angry
and crazy in the head.
1646
01:28:15,542 --> 01:28:18,292
That's what-
That's his trademark.
1647
01:28:18,292 --> 01:28:21,500
You know? Soften them up,
poison them off,
1648
01:28:21,500 --> 01:28:23,292
and then shoot
them down in flames.
1649
01:28:24,292 --> 01:28:26,292
That's all you are.
- And what do you mean by
1650
01:28:26,292 --> 01:28:29,000
poisoning people off?
- What he does, he tries to get
1651
01:28:29,042 --> 01:28:31,625
inside their head and
psycho-dysfunctional-ise them -
1652
01:28:31,667 --> 01:28:34,417
muck them up and dull them down
and try and give them- you know,
1653
01:28:34,500 --> 01:28:37,167
stun them and turn them
into a zombie, and then he...
1654
01:28:37,167 --> 01:28:39,042
- Ah. See,
1655
01:28:39,042 --> 01:28:41,667
I've been filming with him
over the last couple of years,
1656
01:28:41,750 --> 01:28:43,792
and I've been feeling
elements of that.
1657
01:28:43,875 --> 01:28:48,292
Like, it's hard to explain to
people why you get that way.
1658
01:28:48,375 --> 01:28:50,292
But it's like he does- Yeah.
- And that's what he does -
1659
01:28:50,375 --> 01:28:53,292
he just victimizes people;
that's all he's all about.
1660
01:28:53,375 --> 01:28:55,875
Just crushes and chews and shits
on people as he goes, basically.
1661
01:28:56,167 --> 01:28:59,000
- Mm.
1662
01:28:59,000 --> 01:29:02,250
- He wanted me to go and move
down to, um, Whanganui with him-
1663
01:29:02,292 --> 01:29:03,750
- Did he?
- ...and live there with him.
1664
01:29:03,792 --> 01:29:05,667
Yeah, he was trying to
talk me into leaving here
1665
01:29:05,667 --> 01:29:07,667
and going and moving
with him to Whanganui.
1666
01:29:07,750 --> 01:29:10,292
You may as well jump
out the bloody window -
1667
01:29:10,375 --> 01:29:13,667
be better off. Hopefully you'd
break your legs or your neck,
1668
01:29:13,667 --> 01:29:15,417
and you'd be dead;
rather than go with him.
1669
01:29:15,417 --> 01:29:16,792
You'd end up dead anyway.
1670
01:29:20,417 --> 01:29:22,542
Cos he used to come in my room
quite a bit. He loves to go
1671
01:29:22,542 --> 01:29:25,500
round when you're in bed
asleep and get in your room.
1672
01:29:25,542 --> 01:29:26,792
- Jesus.
- He's got this really...
1673
01:29:26,875 --> 01:29:29,250
He's got this really
sort of weird,
1674
01:29:29,250 --> 01:29:30,917
sneaky, creepy thing.
1675
01:29:33,292 --> 01:29:35,417
- God, it's a certain
vibe, isn't it?
1676
01:29:37,667 --> 01:29:41,042
Cos he... Yeah, he, um... sort
of, long, very boring story,
1677
01:29:41,125 --> 01:29:42,417
but when the shop closed down,
1678
01:29:42,500 --> 01:29:44,417
I took some old signs
that were by the bin,
1679
01:29:45,542 --> 01:29:47,000
and then he accused
me of stealing them.
1680
01:29:47,042 --> 01:29:48,375
- That'd be about right.
1681
01:29:48,417 --> 01:29:50,042
- And then I was gonna give
them back to him, and they
1682
01:29:50,042 --> 01:29:52,250
disappeared overnight from
where I had them under my house.
1683
01:29:52,292 --> 01:29:53,625
- Yeah, he would have
gone and taken them.
1684
01:29:53,667 --> 01:29:56,042
You live in, is it,
um, Ponsonby?
1685
01:29:56,042 --> 01:29:57,417
- I'm in Ponsonby.
— Yeah, yeah.
1686
01:29:57,500 --> 01:30:00,125
He's been round your house,
sneaking round your house.
1687
01:30:00,167 --> 01:30:01,667
- How... How do you know that?
- He prowls.
1688
01:30:01,667 --> 01:30:04,292
He goes and prowls
and lurks after people -
1689
01:30:04,292 --> 01:30:06,375
that's what he does.
He goes and he... Yeah.
1690
01:30:06,417 --> 01:30:08,042
Yeah, he goes round
people's houses and that
1691
01:30:08,125 --> 01:30:10,292
and spies on them and that.
1692
01:30:10,292 --> 01:30:13,042
- So, how did you know
that he'd been to my house?
1693
01:30:13,042 --> 01:30:15,792
- Cos he's talked all about you
and said that he's on to you.
1694
01:30:15,792 --> 01:30:18,292
- CHUCKLES: Oh! Fucking hell.
- Yeah.
1695
01:30:18,292 --> 01:30:20,042
And he's been going
round. Apparently,
1696
01:30:20,125 --> 01:30:21,667
he's even got a key to your
house. He's got a hold of it.
1697
01:30:21,667 --> 01:30:23,042
- Yeah, he does - he does
have a key to my house.
1698
01:30:23,042 --> 01:30:24,667
- Yeah. Yes.
That's actually illegal.
1699
01:30:24,667 --> 01:30:26,042
- How? But-
1700
01:30:26,042 --> 01:30:27,042
- He's not supposed
to be doing that,
1701
01:30:27,125 --> 01:30:28,750
cos it's your house
and your property.
1702
01:30:28,750 --> 01:30:30,917
- So he openly talks about this?
- Yes.
1703
01:30:32,375 --> 01:30:34,667
He just- In his head,
he gets delusions
1704
01:30:34,667 --> 01:30:37,667
about making
victims out of people.
1705
01:30:37,667 --> 01:30:39,667
And once he gets the
idea in his head about,
1706
01:30:39,750 --> 01:30:41,792
you know, he's going to
go and go for someone,
1707
01:30:41,875 --> 01:30:44,375
or go after someone,
that's the end of it.
1708
01:30:45,917 --> 01:30:48,250
What do you do?
- Well, that's the thing -
1709
01:30:48,250 --> 01:30:50,417
what do you do?
- Well, he needs- See,
1710
01:30:50,417 --> 01:30:53,167
in the old days, they sent
people to places like that,
1711
01:30:53,167 --> 01:30:54,292
like here. And what
they've clone now is
1712
01:30:54,292 --> 01:30:56,292
they just chuck
them into the street.
1713
01:30:56,417 --> 01:30:58,667
- But he weirdly
ended up here anyway.
1714
01:30:58,792 --> 01:30:59,875
But it's not
a mental institution.
1715
01:30:59,875 --> 01:31:01,417
- Yeah, well, 20 years too late,
1716
01:31:01,417 --> 01:31:03,417
cos the doctors and the
nurses aren't here any more.
1717
01:31:03,500 --> 01:31:07,375
But he could fill this place up
on his own. Oh yeah. Yeah,
1718
01:31:07,417 --> 01:31:10,250
you just get him to go round
the general population,
1719
01:31:10,250 --> 01:31:12,917
he could make plenty of,
um, customers for this place.
1720
01:31:13,000 --> 01:31:15,292
Poisoning people off,
making people mental, crazy,
1721
01:31:15,417 --> 01:31:18,750
destabilizing people —
that's his function.
1722
01:31:18,792 --> 01:31:20,250
- WHISPERS: Yeah.
1723
01:31:21,792 --> 01:31:23,500
Fuck.
1724
01:31:32,250 --> 01:31:35,542
- He makes up so
much muck about people,
1725
01:31:35,542 --> 01:31:37,417
like you're some evil person.
1726
01:31:39,042 --> 01:31:40,917
- Yep. Yeah. (LAUGHS)
- Um, 'Oh, there's this bastard
1727
01:31:40,917 --> 01:31:42,917
'who's going round making
this documentary about me.'
1728
01:31:42,917 --> 01:31:45,625
And on one sort of hand,
you can, sort of, see that
1729
01:31:45,667 --> 01:31:48,750
he's loving it and he's getting
his euphoric pleasure from it.
1730
01:31:48,792 --> 01:31:51,167
But the same time, it's bugging
him or biting at him as well...
1731
01:31:51,167 --> 01:31:52,917
- Yeah.
- ...uh, psychologically,
1732
01:31:52,917 --> 01:31:56,417
because it's the truth
that really he's a bastard,
1733
01:31:56,417 --> 01:31:59,292
and he's gone round just
poisoning the world off
1734
01:31:59,292 --> 01:32:02,875
and leaving everybody in
a wake of destructive mess
1735
01:32:02,875 --> 01:32:04,667
that he leaves behind
with everybody afterwards.
1736
01:32:04,667 --> 01:32:05,875
That's all he does.
- Yeah. Yeah.
1737
01:32:05,917 --> 01:32:07,542
- (CHUCKLES)
1738
01:32:11,917 --> 01:32:14,292
- It just adds up.
1739
01:32:14,375 --> 01:32:18,125
- Well, what his... Like
I said, it's just what he did.
1740
01:32:18,167 --> 01:32:21,417
His whole life,
he'll just spend expanding,
1741
01:32:21,500 --> 01:32:24,417
continuously goes along
just getting people
1742
01:32:24,417 --> 01:32:27,250
and just trying to poison
them off. That's what he does.
1743
01:32:27,250 --> 01:32:29,792
Possibly he's an evil spirit -
1744
01:32:29,792 --> 01:32:31,667
that's why he runs
the way he does.
1745
01:32:35,375 --> 01:32:37,667
- Wonder where
Michael will end up.
1746
01:32:37,667 --> 01:32:40,917
- Um, if he went down to
hell... - Mm.
1747
01:32:41,000 --> 01:32:43,667
- ...Satan would be up banging
on the door, asking God,
1748
01:32:43,750 --> 01:32:45,917
'Oh, please get me
away from Michael.'
1749
01:32:59,917 --> 01:33:01,417
(PENSIVE MUSIC)
1750
01:33:25,375 --> 01:33:26,667
- MICHAEL: You
have crossed the line,
1751
01:33:26,667 --> 01:33:28,417
in terms of civil threshold.
1752
01:33:30,667 --> 01:33:35,125
OK. The way you were speaking
and making hateful comments,
1753
01:33:35,125 --> 01:33:38,042
your body language
and your voice tone -
1754
01:33:38,042 --> 01:33:41,375
your voice tone come through,
but your body language,
1755
01:33:41,375 --> 01:33:42,417
I mean...
- OK.
1756
01:33:42,500 --> 01:33:43,542
- OK?
- OK. Bye, Mike.
1757
01:33:43,542 --> 01:33:44,042
- See ya.
1758
01:33:44,167 --> 01:33:45,667
- So I just have...
1759
01:33:50,292 --> 01:33:51,917
(PENSIVE MUSIC CONTINUES)
140583
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