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So, okay. Let's go.
Is it blue or pink?

-Oh, my God!
-(screams)

It's a girl!

Are you for real?!

Oh, my God!

Oh, my God! It's a girl!

(man whoops)

WOMAN:
My God!

MAN:
I can't believe it.

(indistinct) Is it a girl?

-It's a girl. (laughs)
-(screams)

-("Be My Baby" playing)
-(people cheering)

GROUP:
Three, two, one.

(cheering, screaming)

* I needed you so *

(cheering)

* And if I had the chance *

* I'd never let you go *

(cheering)

-(cheering) -* So won't you
say you love me? *

* I'll make you
so proud of me *

(cheering, screaming)

* We'll make them
turn their heads *

(cheering)

-* Every place we go *
-(cheering)

* So won't you please *

* Be my, be my baby *

* Be my little baby *

* My one and only baby *

-(cheering)
-* Say you'll be my darlin' *

-* Be my, be my baby *
-(cheering)

* Be my baby now *

-(cheering)
-* Whoa-oh-oh-oh-oh *

(yells wildly)

Yeah! Yeah!

(engine revving)

(cheering)

(song pauses)

-* Be my, be my baby *
-(cheering)

* Be my little baby *

* My one and only baby *

* Say you'll be my darlin' *

* Be my, be my baby *

-* Be my baby now *
-(cheering)

* Whoa-oh-oh-oh. *

* *

(song ends)

* *

SEAN SAIFA WALL: We live in
a society that's so binary.

And so, for me as an intersex
person, where do I fit?

Where do I belong?

ALICIA ROTH WEIGEL:
I was born intersex,

between the two sexes.

I have physical
and anatomical traits

that don't fall neatly into
that male/female box

that birth certificates
would make you think

is how the world is.

You feel so alone and isolated

and like your body is a problem.

RIVER GALLO:
There's this connotation of

something that's ugly.

That it's, like, gross.

Or, like, something
that is monstrous.

Actually,
our very existence proves

that there is
no pure male and female.

-Ah.
-What's up? Hi.

-You look so beautiful.
-Ah. Hi.

-Thank you. So do you.
-SAIFA: Wow.

ALICIA:
I do not.

-(Alicia sighs)
-Yeah.

-You look great.
-Thank you.

(laughter)

JULIE COHEN: I did just want
to start off asking

the three of you
how you feel, like,

intersex people
have been depicted.

The way I've seen it,
it's usually, like,

-really sensationalized.
-Yeah.

It's like, "Oh. They have--
This person has both."

-You know?
-ALICIA: Yeah, yeah.

It's just
a complete misunderstanding

of, like, our lives
and experiences.

You know, I'm lately
even thinking, like--

talking about representation--

I would say the biggest thing
is the lack of it.

-ALICIA: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
-The just zero-ness of it.

No one even knows
what intersex means.

And people fear what
they don't know and understand.

When I'm dating,
it's always like,

"When can I tell someone?"

("Call Me Maybe"
by Boyce Avenue playing)

* I threw a wish in the well *

* Don't ask me,
I'll never tell... *

Want to come with Mommy?

* But now you're in my way... *

(Alicia grunts playfully)

Good girl.

Yeah, Mommy's gonna do
some swiping, okay?

All right?

No. (chuckles)

No.

(grunts)

* Where you think
you're going, baby... *

Oh, I matched.

No. No.

Ooh, he's kind of cute.

Dude-bro.

No.

Ooh, this guy has macaroons
in the background.

I like macaroons.

Cute dog, too old.

Oh, my God.
He says, "Name is Josh.

Trump 2020. No haters."

(chuckles)

Nope.

Chiquita, baby girl,
you want a treat?

-* So call me, baby. *
-(song ends)

Dating has been tough.

It's, like, markedly different
than it was before I was,

you know, out as being intersex.

Before I came out
on dating apps,

I used to, like, clean up.

Not to toot my own horn.

My parents and doctors
cautioned me about

the fact that it would be more
difficult being out and dating,

because people don't know
what "intersex" means,

and they see the word and
they think I'm walking around

with something in my pants
that I do not have.

I have a new match.

Oh, he's cute.

I don't have "intersex"
in my profile.

The thing is, I feel like most
dudes wouldn't even notice,

'cause most guys just look
at your picture anyway.

And, like,
I shouldn't have to...

...label myself in a way
that makes me feel like

I'm a poster board
for something.

Um, but for me, it's kind of
like, if I don't divulge it--

Ooh, this guy's cute.

If I don't divulge it--
Oh, we matched.

Then they'll find out on their
own 'cause they'll google me.

And if someone can't handle me,
then sucks for them.

(applause)

Madam Chairman,
ladies and gentlemen.

I gave my talk today,

the title of
"Developmental Differentiation

of Femininity and Masculinity
Compared."

I have two slides to show you,
uh, for the, uh,

for the chromosome,
if we may have them, please.

Here's a picture of
the human sex chromosomes, uh,

which are 46 in number.

In the sexual differentiation
of the human embryo,

the norm is ordinarily male

when the sex chromosomes
are X and Y

and female when they are
a pair of X's.

Society generally considers that

XY chromosomes means
you're a man

and XX means you're a woman.

Although I was born
with XY chromosomes,

I was also born with a vagina.

And so they assigned me
"female" at birth,

because they usually go

based on the parts
that you're born with.

But another trait that was
not visible on the outside

was that I had internal testes.

Um, I was not born with a womb.
I was not born with ovaries.

I was born with testes
on the inside.

The protocol was
to remove those testes

through what they call
a gonadectomy,

which, in my view,

is a euphemistic way
of saying castrating me.

They removed my testes.
That is castration.

(laughter)

(playful chatter)

MONEY:
Now, if you can imagine a person

who looks like
a 100% normal female when born,

and yet this person
is one who has

no uterus
from which to menstruate

and is also lacking
in tubes and ovaries,

uh, and, paradoxically,

has the internal organs
of male structure,

then you have the story

of this strange partial reversal
in human beings.

SAIFA:
I think for me, growing up,

I felt like a little boy.

And I remember
my mom was just like,

"You are not a boy.
You're a girl."

* *

Susanne. That was my birth name.

Baby Girl Wall.

Here it is.

Yeah, so right here, they had
originally put an X mark.

Uh, for sex,
they had put "ambiguous,"

and then they crossed it out,

and then they put an X
for "female."

You know, it's written here
literally in black and white.

"There is no uterus." Never was.

"Phallus is small."

"Recommendations:
Assignment of sex as female."

It's underlined.

"In the interest of proper
psychosexual orientation

"of the infant

"and in order to protect

"the parent's emotional
well-being,

"the mother has been told
that the baby is a girl

and will function as such."

"Therapeutic goals.

"Plastic repair
to modify external genital

to be consistent with female."

That's fucked up.

There wasn't even
any thinking about it.

It wasn't any sort of

asking or consulting
with my mom.

It was literally like,

"You have a child
that we feel is abnormal, um,

and this is how we can
make your child normal."

MONEY: When the,
when the baby is brought in

at the time of birth,

it's-it's quite easy
to make a-a proper diagnosis

and to go ahead
making the proper correction.

RIVER (speaking Spanish):

-Okay.
-Baby, what is it?

Yeah, well, just relax, baby.

Mm.

(softly):
Okay.

Mm-hmm.

-RIVER: That's me, right?
-Mm-hmm.

MARIBEL:
Baby.

Aw, you see.

So cute.

RIVER:
This is my fifth birthday.

I always liked cake.

(both laugh)

-MARIBEL: The Boy Scout.
-Yeah, Boy Scouts.

Wow, this is 2001.

(sighs heavily) Wow.

-RIVER: Yeah. It is.
-It is.

("Born to Run"
by Amy Macdonald playing)

I was born in
Hackensack, New Jersey.

I was raised in a small town
called Ridgefield Park.

* On the day, we sweat it out
on the streets *

* Of a runaway American dream *

* At night, we ran through
mansions of glory *

* In suicide machines... *

RIVER: I'm a huge
Bruce Springsteen fan,

as many a Jersey girl.

* Fuel injection and
stepping out over the line... *

My parents immigrated
from El Salvador undocumented.

They owned a restaurant,
a Salvadoran restaurant.

* We gotta get out
while we're young... *

It really helped me
develop a work ethic.

What is that phrase?

"Strap up your bootstraps"
or "buckle up your straps."

(laughs)

Pull myself up
from my bootstraps.

* Whoa... *

And that is where I grew up,
in this blue house.

My dad, my mom, my sister and I,

we shared a bedroom
until I was like nine or ten.

* But till then,
tramps like us *

* Baby, we were born to run... *

So, I grew up thinking

I was just a normal boy,

but at the same time,
if I'm to be honest,

I think I always felt,
like, different.

Like, I remember secretly
putting on my mom's makeup

or, like, you know,

trying on her clothes when,
you know, no one was around.

You know, all those, like,
things that, like,

a lot of queer, trans
or nonbinary people experience.

But physiologically,
I always thought, like, I was--

there was nothing wrong with me.

-Stop! Don't record!
-MAN: I'm not recording.

-Then how come the red light
is on? -The red light is on.

MAN:
Shit. All right.

And one, two...

RIVER:
When I was 12,

I had a doctor's appointment.

It was just, like, uh,
allergies or something.

My pediatrician asked my mom,

"Oh, when are you
going to tell him?"

And then she was like, "Oh,
we're gonna tell him soon."

I was like, "I'm right here.

Like, what are you guys
talking about?"

A month later,

we all drove
to the pediatrician together,

and, um...

then I went in by myself,
and I--

my doctor told me that
I was born without testicles.

I knew that I had a penis, and
I knew that I had a scrotum,

and I didn't know
that there was something

supposed to be in that scrotum.

Then my doctor pretty much
explained how, eventually,

I would have a surgery to
implant prosthetic testicles.

The idea was,
since I had a penis, to--

if I had testicles,
I would fully look, um, "male"

and my life would be--
I'd be fixed.

(singer vocalizing)

(song ends)

BEN SHAPIRO:
Here's the, here's the deal.

For all of human history,
there was an objective standard

between male and female.

It was out of simply looking
at people's genitals

and assessing them based on
their outward appearance.

Right? Which is still true
for nearly all human beings

on planet Earth at all times.

That is not a myth.
That's called science.

Fifty-six. That's how many
options you now have

to describe your gender
on Facebook.

The social networking site
is adding options that include

transgender, intersex,
whatever that is. (scoffs)

The most inclusive definition
of "intersex" is

"Any variation
in a person's sex traits

"with which they're either born

or they develop naturally
during puberty."

The existence of intersex traits

shows us not only does
that middle space exist

between male and female

but that there also is
a lot of variation

within those categories
of male and female.

It is possible to be

a quote-unquote
"biological female"

and have testes.

It is possible to be
a biological male

and have a uterus.

I'm a full-blown hermaphrodite.

Put that on your banner.

* Mr. Houdini,
you're a freak show. *

DALKE: One of
the biggest problems with

terms like "hermaphrodite"
is that they imply

that people are born with

a full set of
male and female sex organs.

It's not possible actually

for a person
to really have both.

Because there's
such a wide range of variations

that people can have,

there are really
wide-ranging implications

for that person's
physical health.

Unfortunately, the way that the
medical community has responded

to that complexity,
historically,

is to focus on managing
someone's genital appearance

and their gender identity.

For some people,
depending on their variation,

a person may need

really specific and urgent
medical or surgical care,

but in most cases, surgery
is not medically necessary.

(Saifa clears throat)

SAIFA:
"13-year-old Black female

"with a history of
testicular feminization

who is noted to have
bilateral gonads."

"Patient never had her menses."

I clearly had
a very intersex body.

Whereas in
the original birth record,

they had put, um,
"a small phallus."

And then by the time I was 13,
it was like--

you know, it says right here.

"A large clitoris."

So, already everything
was sort of, like, aligning

to sort of reinforce
this female gender identity.

So my mom consented
to the gonadectomy.

The doctor told my mom,

"These gonads,
they have to be removed.

They're-they're cancerous."

And my mom heard "cancer,"
and she was like,

"Must be done."

Later, I found that
they weren't cancerous.

They weren't.

I was subjected
to the gonadectomy,

which was a removal
of my testes.

Which left me with two scars,
bilateral scars on my belly.

Yeah, I just remember,
like, a lot of pain.

It was just, like,
a lot of pain.

After surgery,

the doctor came into my room
followed by these residents.

No one wanted to know my name.

It was just like,
literally, you know,

"Pull down, you know,
lift up your gown."

And, you know, here I am,
13 years old, um,

naked, you know,
in front of these residents,

and they're just
totally looking at me.

MONEY: The appropriate surgical
corrections are undertaken,

and at teen age,

the congruous hormonal therapy
is given.

And the result is not
by any means as dire

as one may expect.

SAIFA:
I was a boy in all this, like--

all these dresses and stuff.

When they removed my testicles,

they changed
the course of my life.

I did not consent
to that surgery.

ALICIA:
I remember

when my friends first started
getting their period

and they would start
asking me for tampons.

And I would never need a tampon
because I don't get my period.

I don't have a uterus.
I don't have ovaries.

There would be nowhere
for a period to come from.

And yet I started
carrying around tampons

because I had to keep up
this facade.

I would have to...

take these pills
or use, like, dilators.

They're, like, these, like,
medical-produced dildos,

because they want to make sure
that your vagina is big enough

to have penetrative sex
with a man.

Like, I couldn't even, like,

share that experience, like,
with my parents.

Like, the doctors
told me to do that.

And I was like 11 or 12,

like, using these dildos, like,
alone in a closet in my house.

RIVER: I had, um, an ultrasound
performed on me.

I just remember this
technician, like, just, like,

going over the same--

my groin, like,
over and over again

with this, like, icy cold,
like, probe and the gel.

And... and I just remember
all these, like, students,

like, gathered around me,
like, watching.

After some time,
I, like, kicked one of them,

and I was just like,

"My testicles are not there.
Just please leave me alone."

I grew up with
this belief that like,

"Okay, I have this condition.

I need to sort of
keep it to myself."

Doctors would tell my mom,
"Oh, people won't understand.

"Never talk about this
with laypeople.

Only talk about it
with physicians."

ALICIA: I had never heard
the word "intersex" in my life.

I was told that I had a problem,

that I was being fixed

and that I should never
tell anyone about it,

because if I did, then I would
not be able to find a husband

if they knew what I was.

I don't think anyone explicitly
told me to keep it a secret.

However...

...why would anybody
want to talk about

not having testicles
in high school?

At 15 or 16, I had the surgery

to put prosthetic testicles
inside of me.

None of my doctors said,
you know,

to have any kind of emotional
or psychological support

throughout any of it.

I was looking at ways
to cope with, um,

just this huge secret.

This body was a problem
that needed to be fixed,

and the fixing
had to be a secret.

ALICIA: Why does my brother
not know about this?

Why is there so much shame
surrounding this

that even within our own family
we can't talk about it?

DALKE: Secrecy has been
just as big a part

of medical treatment
of intersex kids

as the surgery has been.

The idea being that
if they knew about

their medical
or surgical history,

then they would question
their gender identity.

Within the context of,
you know, mid-century America,

um, and a-a drive for
a really binary assignment,

that ambivalence was thought
to be totally counterproductive

to someone growing up,

identifying as essentially
straight and cisgender.

So, in practice,

virtually every child born with
an intersex condition,

that information was
withheld for them.

Um, in my own case,
I was identified as having

an intersex variation
when I was six years old.

My parents are both physicians,

and everything that they read
in medical textbooks

and heard from
my physicians said,

"You should not tell her this
about herself."

COHEN:
If-if you had to act out, like,

what was the message about
how open you should be

about being intersex?

(groans)

Yeah. Totally.

(laughing)

(laughing):
I'm not here.

No, don't... (laughing)

("Our Lips Are Sealed"
by Lionel Ziblat playing)

* Can you hear them? *

* They talk about us *

* They're telling lies *

* Well, that's no surprise *

* Can you see them... *

ALICIA:
I was, like, tri-varsity

and captain of
different sports teams.

And... part of that was,
like, wanting to hit

these validating factors
to be worthy of-of love.

* Yeah, our lips are sealed *

* Well, we've all thought... *

RIVER:
Achievement meant to me

a way of trying to define myself

outside of this strange,
obscure secret about my body.

* Yeah, our lips are sealed... *

SAIFA:
Ever since I was younger, like,

I really wanted something more.

I'm an ambitious person
for sure.

* Our lips are sealed *

* Our lips are sealed *

-* Our lips are sealed. *
-(song fades)

SAIFA: There's a culture of
shame and stigma

and silence that surround
intersex people.

It's not just
the surgeries themselves,

but it-it's the voyeurism
by doctors.

It's the medical photography.

This person becomes,
like, a specimen.

MONEY: Human hermaphrodites
has been a field

of my special interest
over the last 11 years.

That is, in the study
of psychosexual differentiation

in these people who are
physical hermaphrodites.

Their external genitals
may tell a lie to their owner,

as well as to other people,

so that it's therapeutically
high-highly desirable

to have them surgically
corrected at an early age.

I-I definitely had

some romantic encounters
in high school.

I had a boyfriend
and a girlfriend.

It was really scary.

I was afraid
that they would find out

that the testicles
that I had were-were fake.

I think, for my girlfriend,

I think I told her
that I had testicular cancer

and that that's the reason why--

'cause, you know,
that I, that I couldn't--

God, this sounds so weird--
get her pregnant,

like, when we had sex.

So, like, we didn't use condoms.

But, like, that was
the excuse that I gave

because I would rather
had said that

than, like, tell her the truth
that I was never born with any.

ALICIA: I felt like the way
that I would be worthy of love

was fitting
this perfect paradigm

of what a woman is
supposed to be.

If I got serious with someone,

I was worried
that that would, like,

ruin all that love
that we had built

for them to know
who I actually was.

SAIFA: I feel like sex
and sexual relations

just bring you
right into the-the muck

of all your vulnerability,

all of your pain,
all of your trauma.

Like, it just drops you
right in.

I started dating this woman
in my senior year of college.

This would be the first time

that I actually had sex
with someone

where I was completely naked,

and I was really losing my shit.

I wanted to experience, like,
our bodies together, but...

I just...

I think I was just so like,

"My body doesn't exist
in the world.

"My body is just so different

from anything
that I can comprehend."

I think the only thing
I could mutter was like,

"I-I can't do this."

COHEN:
Were any of you told

by family members, by doctors,

anything about the history of

medical treatment
of intersex people?

-No.
-ALICIA: What? No.

-No. -No.
-(chuckles)

ALICIA:
No.

And that's the common thread
with all intersex people is

all the things that we learn
about the community,

about our variations,
about anything,

it's all, like, a self-journey.

SAIFA:
Right.

You know, some people don't even
find each other like we did,

and, for me, I've learned
so much about myself

just through
other intersex people.

Yeah.

You know, there are anywhere
from 35 to 40 variations,

and I think, you know,

depending on
the variation you have,

it's like you become
an expert on your body.

-ALICIA: Yeah.
-SAIFA: You know?

Whenever I've met people
with AIS,

it's just wild, like--
it's just, like, this--

it's a script.

Remove the testes,

put the child on, you know,
progesterone or estrogen,

create a vagina,

make sure that, you know,
the vagina is suitable

for sex, you know,
with your future husband.

The treatment of
intersex young people

is totally based in, like,

this 1950s ideology of, like,
creating men and women.

ALICIA:
Yeah.

MONEY:
The difference becomes apparent

even in childhood.

When boys are out
staking territory claims,

constructing hideouts,
forts and camps,

and fending off
rival intruder gangs,

girls are expending
somewhat less energy,

usually closer to home,

making lairs and homes
for the young

and raising doll babies.

ANNOUNCER:
Tonight, a special report

on the search
for sexual identity.

(applause)

GERALDO RIVERA:
Dr. John Money is a professor

of medical psychology

at the Johns Hopkins
Medical Center.

He's also the cofounder of the
Gender Identity Clinic there.

TOM SNYDER: This week's issue
ofTime magazine

calls my next guest,
Mr. John Money,

one of the best-known
sex researchers in the country.

KEITH SIGMUNDSON:
John Money was a-a psychologist

who had advanced ideas of sex

and had achieved
such a position of prominence.

RICHARD SHER: We are delighted
to be joined by Dr. John Money.

He's a world-famous sexologist.

And it is nice to have you
back again, Dr. Money.

OPRAH WINFREY:
It certainly is.

How many hermaphrodites are
there born in this country?

Nobody in the United States
keeps figures on it,

so there's
no absolute certainty, but...

WINFREY: Why? I would think
we would keep figures.

We just-- we just don't?

I would have thought so, too,
but we don't.

DALKE: It's pretty unusual
in the history of medicine

for one person to be synonymous
with a revolution

in the treatment
of a specific condition,

and Dr. Money was
single-handedly responsible

for creating a new treatment
paradigm for intersex people.

It was really all him.

SAIFA:
I didn't know about Dr. Money

until I was in my mid-20s.

But growing up, I didn't really
associate any of my treatment

or any of the stuff that I was
learning about with Dr. Money.

ALICIA:
Yeah, I'm-I'm more familiar

with modern-day doctors.

COHEN: So I'm gonna show you
some footage about Dr. Money

and his most famous patient,
David Reimer.

Um, David was not intersex,

but his case with Dr. Money
had so much influence

on the way intersex people
have been treated.

NEWSMAN (over computer):
Could a normal boy,

if it was thought to be
in his best interest,

be brought up as a girl?

MONEY: I have
some very fascinating cases

that have taught me a lot.

Because they were born
with an error

or a birth defect
of the sex organs,

there was a quite natural
and legitimate uncertainty

as to which way the birth
certificate should be signed.

NEWSMAN: John Money came
to believe that between birth

and the age of two,

a child could learn
to be either sex

before it became fixed
in its sexual identity.

Science has debated
sexual identity for years

and referred increasingly
to one particular case.

He was born a boy,
but as a baby,

he became the subject
of an experiment

aimed at turning him
into a girl.

WINFREY: In 1965, Janet Reimer
became the proud mother

of identical twins.

The baby boys were strong,
healthy and happy.

At eight months,
Janet took them to the doctor

to be circumcised.

JANET REIMER: The doctor
called us into his office,

and he said, "There's been
a little mistake."

And then he said that, uh...

David's penis had been burnt.

They were using
a cauterizing machine.

-An electric current that cuts
tissue... -Mm-hmm. That's it.

...and it was supposed
to cut the foreskin.

Yes, and something happened.

Too much current came through.

It cut the whole penis off.

At the time, I guess the idea
of reconstructing a penis...

It was impossible at that time.

My first words were, "My God,
what are we going to do?"

The gender role
and the psychosexual identity

agree with the sex
of assignment and rearing.

We happened to be watching that
show, and I'd heard Dr. Money.

And he was very charismatic,

very dignified in a lot--

He seemed like a man
that really knew where it's at.

The appropriate surgical
corrections are undertaken,

and at teen age, the congruous
hormonal therapy is given.

And the result is not
by any means

as dire as one may expect.

I wrote him a letter,
and he very promptly answered.

He was most interested
in seeing us.

What did he say he could do?

He said that our baby
could grow up as a girl.

KEITH MORRISON:
Just like any other woman?

JANET:
Yes.

With the help of surgery.

NEWSWOMAN: At the age of
21 months, the baby's testicles

were removed
at Dr. Money's request.

It was now up to the parents

to nurture their child
into a girl.

JANET:
Dr. Money suggested

that it was my responsibility
to make her feminine.

MORRISON: The Reimers were told
they must stand steadfast

behind their decision
and must not tell

either of their twins the truth.

JANET:
Well, the first time

I put him in a dress...

was a real trial,

because he tried to tear it off.

Oh, my God.

JANET: Oh, my God.
He knows he's been a boy.

DALKE:
Once David was assigned female,

the family was advised
to move to a different place

to keep from the twins
any indication

that there had been two boys
instead of a boy and a girl.

Neither one of the twins
were ever told

why they were
going to see Dr. Money.

NEWSWOMAN: It was a pilgrimage
they would make annually

for the next nine years.

Johns Hopkins School
of Medicine is world-famous

for its work
on sexuality disorders.

The whole notion
of sexual or gender identity

was developed and experimented
with in this institution,

first and foremost
by Dr. John Money.

SIGMUNDSON:
For John Money and his theory,

this became
a perfect experiment.

You would have proof that

indeed you could raise
a boy as a girl,

and they would be
perfectly happy and successful.

COHEN: So how did the case
come to you?

I was the head of the
department of, uh, psychiatry

for the school system
in Winnipeg, Canada.

I was just assigned this case

because I was the senior
psychiatrist responsible.

Well, it was presented as if
this was a working situation

in which a young child

had been reassigned
from male to female

under two and a half
years of age,

and that this was going to be--
uh, have a positive outcome.

Did all the therapists know
what had happened?

Yes.

And they were instructed
not to tell Brenda?

It was not our responsibility

to inform Brenda
about the truth.

The mandate that we were given,

with consultation with
John Money and his people,

was to help to raise her
as a girl.

Brenda didn't look like
a girl at all.

She was unkempt.

She sat with her legs spread.

MORRISON: Brenda was caught
by a classmate

in the girls' bathroom
urinating standing up.

When you were eight, nine,
ten, 11 years old,

what names did they call you
at school?

(sighs):
Uh...

Caveman, uh...

...uh, freak, uh...

Just about anything imaginable.

I didn't, I didn't comb my hair
half the time.

I wore wrinkly clothes.

I couldn't see myself getting
all dolled up. Then you get--

You want to hide in a closet.
This is--

You know, it's embarrassing.

You know, I mean,
it's just like--

(stammers)
You can imagine yourself.

Try to go shopping
wearing a dress, wearing a wig,

and go shopping, and then
you tell me how you feel.

SIGMUNDSON:
It became evident to me

this wasn't working at all.

I would go
to the senior committee

and, uh, say, you know,

"We-We've got to tell the world
that this isn't working."

Some of the members
of my senior team said,

"Johns Hopkins will kill you.
Your career will be over."

Dr. Money published
many articles

on the, uh, progress

that the twins were making.

They were entirely positive.

These reports were glowing.

MORRISON:
Brenda and Brian were ten

when Dr. Money published
this 1975 paper

in the
Archives of Sexual Behavior.

"Brenda's behavior," he writes,

"is so normally that
of an active little girl

"and so clearly different
by contrast

to the boyish ways
of her twin brother."

Is there any possibility
that he thought

the experiment to turn you
into a girl was working?

I don't think so.

Nobody could be that blind.

How did you feel
when John Money told you

that it was time
to begin hormone treatments?

I said, "Hell no.

"Why do I have to take
this medicine? I'm not dying.

Uh, I-I don't feel
that I need it."

And he came up to me,
and he says,

"Well, it's to help you
so that you'll wear a bra."

SAIFA:
When I look at

his face,
I just see so much pain.

And the thing is, is that

he didn't even
have to go through that.

You know,
it didn't have to be this way.

NEWSWOMAN: The child
threatened to commit suicide

if ever forced
to see Money again.

Only then did his father break
down and tell him everything.

DAVID: Then-- well,
and then that made sense.

You know, I'm not the one
that's crazy.

Like, I was scammed here,
you know?

I was, uh,
I was taken advantage of.

I was lied to.

SIGMUNDSON: Brenda immediately
made the decision

that he was not a girl

and wanted to do
anything he could

to assume his life as a male.

She underwent
a very painful operation

to have the breast tissue
that had developed

from the time she started
the female hormones--

uh, to have them removed.

She spent numbers of weeks
in the hospital

when they were trying
to reconstruct a penis.

MORRISON:
As David struggled,

the world's medical community
still had no way of knowing

that the case had been anything
but a success.

Dr. Money, the psychologist
who for years had written

that the changeover to a girl
was working,

hadn't published anything more

to let people know
what was now happening.

SIGMUNDSON: The case was still
in the literature,

and it had now become
part of the textbooks

that medical students were
studying all over the world.

The entire medical literature
on behalf of gender

and sexual reassignment
for intersex children

was entirely based upon
this one case.

I had to let the world know
what had happened.

I went back to speak to David

as to whether he would like
to come out and tell his story.

He readily agreed.

MORRISON:
Dr. Sigmundson

and psychologist Milton Diamond
wrote a 1997 paper

revealing, without mentioning
David's name,

that the success story
was not what it seemed.

SIGMUNDSON:
Our article was submitted to

the British Medical Journal,

to the New England
Journal of Medicine,

and to the American
Medical Association Journal,

and in each case,
it was returned

after approximately
six months, saying,

"We will not publish.
It is too controversial."

Eventually, uh, theJournal
of Adolescent Medicine

agreed to publish.

DALKE: Money's work
was summarily debunked.

What's interesting though
is it has been very slow

to catch on
in actually changing practice.

The study was debunked
in the 1990s,

but the core of
Money's conclusion,

that we can make
a social gender assignment

and that surgery
needs to happen early,

we've really not been able
to move past that.

SIGMUNDSON:
In America today,

there are still places

where pediatric surgery
is performed

based on the Brenda Reimer case.

I think that
there's a lot of people

that are very interested
in the quick fix.

"Let's go for a quick fix.

"Let's throw him
in the surgery room

and get this done
and over with."

But who's the one suffering?

* *

MORRISON:
David and Jane.

They've been married ten years.

Thanks to
reconstructive surgery,

David is capable of having sex.

Though he can never
have children,

he's adopted
Jane's three children,

-who are now like his own.
-(kids laughing)

I'm... I'm married.

I got three kids.
I got a nice home.

MORRISON:
So, it worked out okay?

Yep.

If you could say anything
you wanted to Dr. Money,

what would you say to him?

I don't know.

Are you still angry at him?

Sometimes.

There's a lot of things
that are unresolved.

NEWSWOMAN:
David Reimer's conflicted life

cut short last week
by a tragic suicide.

Reimer's story
made international headlines.

He was the victim of
a bizarre gender experiment,

a boy forced to live
his childhood as a girl.

* *

MORRISON: In earlier times
when you told this story,

your identity has been hidden.

And now...

The man unmasked.

Yeah, the man unmasked.

Perhaps this will save...

other people from going through
what I went through.

Best way you can look at it.

And that's why you're doing it?

Yes.

I lost my temper
when I had heard there was...

that I wasn't the only one
that had this surgery.

Well, not the surgery but
this whole process being done.

And because of
my so-called success story,

that others had to go through
what I went through,

and I-I had to try
to right a wrong.

All right.

Here we are at the first ever

International World Intersex
meeting.

-Whoo.
-Yeah.

(laughter)

This is a historic moment, um,

and this is about
breaking the secrets and lies.

I really give so much, like,
credit and respect and honor

to the previous generation
of activists.

I always mark the beginnings
of the intersex movement

in the U.S. with the founding of

the Intersex Society
of North America.

Actually, I have a question
for all of you.

You know, you've told us that
you were treated very badly,

it sounds, by your doctors.

SAIFA:
There was a gathering of, um,

intersex people.

Ten hermaphrodites in one place.

Has this ever happened before?
I don't know.

SAIFA:
I think it was radical because,

you know, at the time,
there wasn't a context

to understand intersex at all.

These people were sharing
their stories so vulnerably.

I mean, I remember them

removing my penis
when I was five.

LAURENT: How do you feel about
the fact that was done to you?

At times, I feel like
hiding in the closet,

because it's like, how can
anybody accept, uh, somebody

who's been this mutilated
and this, you know--

Who can accept damaged goods?

I did not have the surgery

to change or feminize that part
of my body until I was eight.

It was done in a hospital
in total secrecy.

I was taken there
and dropped off by my parents,

who did not tell me
why I was in hospital

or what was going to happen.

I had I don't know how many
doctors and people

come to, um,
"look at the freak."

I didn't present
any physical ambiguity

until I was 12 years old.

I was a-assigned
and raised a girl.

And when I was 12, um,
my clitoris started to grow.

Um, I not only noticed
its size growing more prominent

but I loved it.

The doctors that I were taken to

in Peoria, Illinois, in 1985,

I now know studied under a
doctor who had himself studied

under the illustrious
John Money.

You know, this is not unusual

that I had my clitoris
taken away from me

without my knowledge.

LAURENT:
What'd they say?

That they'd just
make it smaller?

That's what they say.

And I want anyone
watching this, be they, um,

you know, historians or doctors

or intersex people, wh-whomever,

um, I-I want you to know

that we are just
the tip of the iceberg.

SAIFA:
I remember the first time

I started taking testosterone.

I moved to California late 2003,

started taking T in 2004.

The endocrinologist,
he was like,

"Oh, I'm gonna make you a man."

First shot that I got,

like, I literally felt
my whole body.

It was like
a whole-body experience.

But then I was like,
"Wow. My nipples are sore.

"I have water retention.
I have panic attacks.

This is terrible."

This physical examination:

"Lip hair,
feminine facial features

and C-cup breasts."

"Eventually may desire
genitoplasty and mammaplasty."

Yeah, I did have
top surgery, though.

I have a distinct memory of,
um, wanting to change my name,

uh, at a DMV in San Jose

and them just being so mean.

You know? Like,
literally laughing in my face.

And they're like,
"Oh, what is she trying to do?

She wants to change her name
to Sean? Ha-ha-ha."

MAN (mispronounces):
Sean Saifa Wall?

SAIFA:
It's Sean Saifa Wall.

(Saifa chuckles)

I had heard

that the San Francisco
Human Rights Commission

was doing a hearing on intersex.

I speak as one of many
intersex people of color

in this world who may not
have access to email,

LISTSERVs and resources

to acknowledge and embrace
their intersex condition.

That's when I had actually--

for the first time,
in front of a larger audience,

I had said...

talked about my body,

talked about the people in
my family who, um, were silent.

I speak for my mom,
mother of three children

with partial androgen
insensitivity syndrome,

who carries guilt and fear
of people discovering

her children's and brother's
intersex conditions

and treating them unfairly.

My heart was pounding

because I had been silent
about this for so long.

I do relate to years
of estrogen therapy

and prodding by psychotherapists

who wanted to know
if the estrogen

altered my attraction to women

or changed my presentation
as male.

I can relate to interns and
doctors inspecting my genitals

and gynecologists shoving
their finger in my anus,

searching for a scrotum,
but not telling me anything.

What I had experienced,
no one should experience.

No one.

NEWSMAN:
Lightning rod legislation is

-sparking an emotional debate
in Texas.-(crowd chanting)

The state senate committee
heard

-ten hours of testimony Friday
-(gavel bangs)

on a so-called "bathroom bill."

ALICIA:
The lieutenant governor

and governor of Texas
had called

a special governmental session

to try to pass a bill,

which basically said

that trans people
had to pee in a restroom

that aligned with the sex
on their birth certificate.

GREG ABBOTT:
We need a law that protects

the privacy of our children
in our public schools.

ALICIA:
I remember realizing, like,

"Wait, like, my story
could help kill this bill,"

because I kept hearing

the senators saying
biological sex is cut-and-dry,

and what my story proved

is that biological sex
is not cut-and-dry.

At the time, I was working
for a former state senator.

All these senators knew me, and
a lot of them have hit on me,

so I knew it would blow their
mind when they realized that,

all this time, they had been
hitting on someone

who was born with balls.

("Oh, Pretty Woman"
by Pomplamoose playing)

* Pretty woman *

* Walking down the street *

* Pretty woman... *

At this point, I hadn't told
my brother and my best friends

and people that have known me
my whole life

that I'm intersex.

On my way to the Capitol
is when I called my mom,

and I was like,

"I'm gonna come out today."

And she was like,
"What do you mean?"

I was like, "I'm gonna tell
the Texas Senate who I am."

* Mercy... *

Madam Chairperson
and members of the committee,

thank you for your time.

My name is Alicia Weigel.

I'm a resident of Austin,
and I have XY chromosomes.

It was, like, the scariest thing
that I've ever done.

I stand here today--
or sit here today-- (chuckles)

representing the "I" in LGBTQIA,

which stands for "intersex."

Uh, because of
a condition called

complete androgen insensitivity,

I was born phenotypically
female on the outside,

with a woman's anatomy

but with internal testes
instead of ovaries.

And so I basically wanted
to tell them

that if they wanted
to try to pass

discriminatory legislation,

they should at least
open a biology textbook first.

Because people like me exist.

Because of
my genotypic XY chromosomes,

does that mean that I've been

using the wrong bathroom
my whole life?

No, it doesn't mean that.

In closing, I ask people
to reflect on how many people

are alienated because
their lives and experiences

fall outside of our
"established" binary system.

Thank you.

(applause)

It felt so good.

I think that was
sort of the beginnings

of, like, the fire for justice
that was burning inside of me.

Um, this conversation will
perhaps change the world.

Hey, what's up, Alok?

-How are you?
-Talk to me.

Whoo, baby.

My presupposition is that
there are two genders,

and if you would like
to change my mind on that,

you're-you're more than
welcome.

I hope that, like, my existence
can shed some light for you.

I got into an online
conversation with one pundit.

I was actually born intersex.

Our conversation got on YouTube

and has over 20 million views
around the world.

If we're born
somewhere in between

-in terms of our, like,
biological traits... -Mm-hmm.

...then how can it not
also be true

that we might identify
somewhere in between

in terms of our gender
and how that presents itself?

We are receiving health care
that is rooted in transphobia

and that's rooted
in homophobia.

It's ironic that
so many of these doctors

will use the rhetoric
of biology...

-Right.
-...when, in fact,

the body is
the biggest argument

against the sex binary.

-Totally. -There have been
and will always be people

who are born outside of these
categories of male or female.

Why should they have to choose
"I'm a male or a female"

if they were not born
a male or a female?

There are some people
who are born without feet.

There are some people who are
born with a webbed hand.

We don't teach biology,
uh, very-- based on outsiders.

Based on a spectrum
of existence?

Intersex people
become the problem

-and not society's prejudice...
-Totally.

-...for policing people into
the binary. -Totally. Totally.

Society can't keep up.

That's why
biological studies matter.

So hard for people to keep up.

Like, it's so hard
for those people

-and not the people who are
being marginalized? -Yes.

I'm sorry I don't have
a box of tissues for you.

So let me give you...

* *

RIVER:
Being public-repping intersex

is really new for me.

For a while,
I didn't know the word existed.

But when I did discover it,

I wasn't ready to face
how angry I was.

For a while, I felt like
it was easier for me

to express myself artistically.

I did my undergrad
at, uh, NYU in acting,

and then I did
my graduate, uh, degree

at USC at
the School of Cinematic Arts.

I specialize in
writing and directing,

and I've been in L.A.
ever since.

COHEN: Can you say a little bit
about how being intersex

impacted, uh,

your relationships
with your parents?

Wow.

I mean, I guess,

at the moment that I found out
when I was 12,

-I completely lost trust
in them. -ALICIA: Yeah.

I thought
I was betrayed by them.

And I think it gave me,
like, an authority issue.

SAIFA:
A lot of parents consent to

these procedures, like,

not really knowing
the long-term effects.

I think a lot of parents do it

because they're really
concerned about their kids.

Both my parents are dead,
you know, so...

I think my mom carried
a lot of guilt.

In my family,

people don't even want
to talk about it.

The doctors told my mom,
"You shouldn't tell your husband

'cause he can't handle it."
Right?

-Um... -It's this whole thing.
No one can handle it.

Right. Totally, you know?

What do you have to handle?
The way that my body was born?

Like, what-what is there
to handle?

(laughter)

For a parent to reconcile
that decisions they made

might have actually harmed
their child,

that's, like,
a really scary thing

for a parent to understand.

My mom has since become
a real ally.

She's even testified
at New York City Council.

...that Alicia had complete
androgen insensitivity.

And if you've heard of that,
I applaud you.

I'm a nurse,
and I had never heard of it.

It means that while Alicia
appears female,

she is genotypically male
with XY chromosomes.

We had a wonderful doctor
who advised us

to the best of his knowledge
at the time,

but never once did he suggest

that we keep an option open for
Alicia to tell us who she was.

We should allow our children

the right
to identify themselves

rather than rely on the snap
judgment of a nurse or doctor

in the chaos
of the delivery room.

These practices that surround
the birth of intersex children,

they harm everyone.

-Wow.
-You know?

* *

RIVER: Every time
I come back to New Jersey,

it feels so familiar,

but I feel like
I've changed so much.

There's something
that I also find, like,

inspiring and beautiful about...

...just how ugly it is.

(laughs)

You know, how, like,
grim-looking it can be.

COHEN:
Maribel, was coping with River's

childhood medical issues
a challenge for you?

COHEN: Was there anything
that you wish

you had known more about

or that the doctors
had told you differently?

Two.

* I hear the rhythm of life
in song, I know the... *

And that she'd just ask God

and pray to God
that in my life...

I don't think she'll ever

get my pronouns right.

I think she'll always kind of

use more male language
towards me.

But I give my mother
a lot of grace just because

I know where she comes from.

She came from poverty.

Coming to this country
not knowing English, like,

you know, she's done
certain things for me

that I can't even fathom
how she did that.

I just know that our
relationship transcends even

maybe how I feel about
my own gender,

because it's just pure... love.

(voice breaking):
She just had faith that...

...that I was gonna pull through
in the end, and, um...

Because, uh, there are a lot
of moments, and still now,

where I don't, I don't think
I'm gonna pull through.

But my mom always knows
that I'm gonna...

make it. (chuckles)

(kisses)

MARIBEL:
Mm. Be strong.

Mothers are-- all over
the world are all alike.

There's guilt, uh,

with things that were done,
were done out of compassion...

out of love for your child,
I think.

How can I hate my mother
for that?

WINFREY: Did you think
he would hate you?

-Yes, I did.
-Mm-hmm.

-Did you hate yourself?
-Yes.

Mm-hmm.

(David sighs heavily)

(ringtone playing)

-ALICIA: Hey.
-SAIFA: What's up?

Hey, what's up? I'm Saifa.

ALICIA: I'm Alicia.
It's nice to meet you.

Nice to meet you guys, too.

-I'm her mom.
-ALICIA: And how old is she?

-(quiet clatter)
-She is five.

She just turned--
You can probably hear her.

She, uh, just turned five
in January.

-Yeah.
-Wow.

SAIFA:
I would imagine

-that it hasn't been easy...
-Totally.

SAIFA:
...because, you know,

the culture surrounding
intersex people,

it's a lot of, like, shame,
and it's a lot of secrecy.

ERICKA: When she was born
and I was at the hospital,

it-it was very secrecy at first.

Why are all these people here?

One, two, three, four.

Just different people coming in.

"Can you go get the doctor?
Can you go get the..."

So they put on her bracelet
"unknown."

And when they put
on her bracelet "U-N-K"

is when I realized, because,

my-- you know,
I compared it to my bracelet,

and on my bracelet,
it said, you know, "female."

I had never heard of, like,
the term "intersex."

Nothing like that.

And what sort of guidance
did they give you?

Everyone just kind of was like,
"What do you want to do?"

And we were trying to figure out

what gender
we wanted to assign her,

so I had, like,
maybe three, four days,

um, in the hospital
to kind of decide.

Ericka, did you end up
finding out

what (bleep), um, variation is?

Partial androgen
insensitivity syndrome.

Like, she has
the internal testes,

but she doesn't have
a vaginal canal.

And are they trying to, um,

push for you
to remove the testes, or no?

No. So they, um,
they did mention that, like,

the testes internal can
eventually maybe cause cancer,

but it's, like, a rare maybe.

It was just like,
"You know what?

"We don't need to do
anything right now

till she gets older
and can really decide."

-That sounds awesome.
-That's so great. Huh.

-ALICIA: Very different than
our experiences. -Wow.

So, the only time they actually
brought up surgery

was for the intent of,

"Okay, like, if she does
decide to be a girl,

"then we could do
the vaginal canal,

you know, at an age that you
guys feel comfortable with."

ALICIA: If that's something
that she actively wants

-when she's old enough...
-Totally.

...to make that decision
for herself.

-Totally. Totally.
-Yeah.

They did the genetic testing
on me and her dad,

and her-- it wasn't in-in the
dad's side; it was in my side.

Uh, you know, they-they told me
not to have kids.

Well, that's deep
that they told you

-not to have any more kids...
-ALICIA: Yeah.

...because that's very, like,
intersexphobic.

Um, because
I think it's beautiful.

I think it's a gift
when, you know,

parents get to have children
that are intersex.

DALKE: Gender identity is
really, really complicated,

and it evolves for people
over time.

Parents can,
and most of the time do,

decide to raise their child
as either a girl or a boy,

but their child's
gender identity

very likely will change
over time.

Unless surgery is
medically necessary,

we really should be waiting

to perform irreversible medical
and surgical interventions

until a child is old enough
to tell us who they are

and to really be able
to participate in the decision.

And for some people,
we shouldn't do surgery at all.

* *

WOMAN:
All right. Actors, go please.

RIVER (as Fool):
That serves and seeks for gain,

And follows but for form,

Will pack
when it begins to rain,

And leave thee in the storm.

ACTOR (as Gloucester):
Well, my good lord,

I have informed her so.

JOE MORTON (as King Lear):
Informed her?!

-Dost thou understand me, man?
-Ay, my lord.

The king would speak with Regan.

* Way out there beyond
this hick town, Barnaby *

* There's a slick town,
Barnaby... *

RIVER: If I had seen myself
in high school

and known of
who I was going to be,

I would have felt
so much less alone.

* *

There are no notable
intersex actors in the world.

But there are
so many intersex people.

My last year at NYU,

I started meeting agents
and managers

who all just were like...

Down, wantons, down!

"You're cool, but, like,

we don't really know
where to place you."

I thought, "I need to put
all my cards on the table,

"and I just need to create art

that is just, like,
dripping with River."

Just existing
as an intersex person

is grounds for celebration

in a whole world
that doesn't see us.

But you know what?

We are here now.

(horn honks)

* *

SAIFA:
I think, um, I'm ready to see,

um, the exhibit.

It's gonna be artists' work
from all over the world.

It's all intersex people,
which is rad.

And I think it's gonna be wild
to kind of see myself, like,

butt naked, you know,
like, "Wow," you know.

For the art. For the movement.

When I decided
to do this photography series,

it's kind of like that final
offering of my physical body.

This is not the story

that doctors had already
laid out for me.

I get to write my own script.

Oh, wow. (squeals softly)

That's wild. That's so wild.

Wow.

(exhales heavily)

Yeah, so this work is...

Yeah, it's all different bodies.

There is no body the same.

-(stammers) Wait. In there?
-(laughs) Yeah, yeah.

-Yeah. Go through.
-I didn't see it. (laughs)

WEIB: The one we took.
Hold on, I'll bring it.

-Over here.
-SAIFA: Right.

You see.

SAIFA:
Wow.

Aw. Aw.

Utopia would also
have to be a world

where no one ever
had to go through trauma.

Right.

SAIFA:
Right.

I think what makes me
really, like, like, sad--

Like, I was going through
the exhibit, and, like,

you know, my heart,
like, hurt, you know?

Just-- all over the world,

we've been saying, like,
what happened to us,

like, why this should stop.

Like, we just been
saying it, you know?

It just makes me so angry.

For 30 years, we've been
saying the same thing,

and it's just like
they won't fucking listen.

I had wanted to be perceived
in the world

as male all the time,
and that didn't happen.

I definitely had
suicidal thoughts.

I thought to myself,

"Maybe I shouldn't exist."

You know?

But if I don't exist,

no one will ever know my story.

MANI MITCHELL:
I just hope that by the time

some years has passed
that this practice

of mutilating, um,
little children stops

and that we're allowed
to live who we are,

unmutilated, and-and we make
the decisions about

how that's going to be.

* *

* *

ALICIA: You know,
I've been out here shouting

for years, but I'm seeing
a lot of stuff picking up.

My goals here are
to try to pass a bill

to condemn these surgeries
as a city,

and then also to somehow,
you know, mandate

that Austin Public Health
puts together

a public awareness campaign
for parents and doctors.

There are certain topics

that people
don't really fight about.

-Totally. Yeah. -You know,
it's like, this just is.

-Yeah. -And I wonder if
this might be a "just is."

There's no confusion.

I am nervous that if the state
catches wind of it,

that they might try
to preempt it.

What happens is
they have legislation

that targets trans children.

The bills say,
"Don't allow these surgeries

and hormones, et cetera,
et cetera, for trans kids--"

Which, by the way,
these surgeries

never happen on trans kids.

They always happen
later in life for trans people.

And then they all have, like,
appendices that say,

"But when children
are born intersex,

"then you can still provide

these hormones
and these surgeries."

They don't view trans kids
as normal, so they say,

"Don't give them
these lifesaving procedures."

They don't view intersex kids
as normal, so they say,

"Force those same procedures
on them."

How bizarre and absurd is it?

-Yeah.
-I know.

(line ringing)

ALICIA:
Hi. It's Alicia,

part of
the intersex rally tomorrow.

How are you?

PERSON (over phone):
I'm good, Alicia. How are you?

I'm good. I'm just making that
last-minute round of calls.

It's like, we-we're doing
good work in Texas,

but we also have work to do
in New York City.

New York Public Health
and Hospitals

has now basically halted

all nonconsensual and
medically unnecessary surgeries

on intersex children.

But these surgeries,
they're often happening

at private university
hospitals...

-Right. -...one of which is-is
Weill Cornell here in town.

And Weill Cornell happens
to house Dr. Dix Poppas.

DALKE: Dr. Poppas does clitoral
surgeries for children

with congenital
adrenal hyperplasia.

They might have
a clitoris that becomes--

can sometimes grow so much
that it looks like a penis.

Um, or might just be
a little bit bigger than usual.

The goal is just to make the
clitoris just look more normal,

within a very binary
and narrow definition

of what it means to be normal.

It is not at all
medically necessary.

There is absolutely no evidence
to suggest that having

a bigger clitoris is harmful
to someone's physical health.

ALICIA:
Protests have been happening

about Dix Poppas specifically
for years,

and yet things feel
really different now.

-Okay, here comes River.
-Yeah.

Um, can I have a marker?

SCOUT SILVERSTEIN:
Yeah, where are they?

ALICIA: We have black markers,
purple markers.

Do you have an idea for a sign?
I'm struggling.

RIVER:
So here's some.

"Unless I say, scalpels away."

-Yeah.
-Ooh.

I love that one.
I really like that one.

Do that, like, do that,
do that next.

This is the one
they made for me.

-"No testes, still my best me."
-(laughter)

-Aw. Yeah, I like that, too.
-I really dig that one.

Oh, this is good.

"To each their 'testoster-own.'"

-SCOUT: Oh, yeah,
that's a good one. -(laughter)

RIVER:
Oh, that's great.

I'm gonna do
"Intersexual healing," y'all.

-I love that. -SCOUT:
When you get that feeling.

(laughter)

That's a good one.

(overlapping chatter)

RIVER: Are you just coming up
with these ideas? Wait.

ALICIA: I, like, thought
about this for a few weeks.

CASEY OROZCO-POORE:
I love that.

-RIVER: What are you doing?
-ALICIA: What about the XY?

RIVER:
Ooh.

I guess, I just wish
that the people...

Anybody tomorrow, you know,
going about their day,

has no idea
what "intersex" means,

that they are provoked
to-to research more about this

and to learn a little bit more.

SCOUT: I think we're at
the cusp of something cool

with the New York City
legislation.

That, like,
that's the first legislation

that has required
explicit action

to protect intersex people's
bodily autonomy

in the United States.

I think there's a lot
of opportunities for doctors

to develop into individuals

who could ally with
the intersex community

and give medically necessary
care without harming them.

This needs to be
as common of an issue

included in the progressive,
like, spectrum as trans people,

-as protecting trans youth...
-RIVER: Yeah.

...as any--
like, climate change.

SCOUT:
I'm optimistic.

I just feel like
it's a long game.

It's a long-ass game.

And we are fighting for it.

Because what's the other option?

There is no other option.

* If the sky that we look upon *

* Should tumble and fall *

* Or the mountains
should crumble *

* To the sea... *

ALICIA:
Hey, everyone.

I'm here
at St. Catherine's Park.

We are right by
the 68th Street entrance.

We're all ready to go.

If you have any questions,
find someone

with an "End Intersex Surgery"
shirt like me.

Let's get this started,
and we'll see you soon.

-(lively chatter) -That would
be really impressive.

Hi, friend. Come on in.

* Oh, darlin', darlin',
stand... *

ALICIA: We are going to be
marching together

to Weill Cornell.

Let's get this happening!

-What do we want?
-GROUP: Body autonomy.

-When do we want it?
-GROUP: Now.

SAIFA:
These little fires,

these are the things
that need to happen

in order to, sort of,
start building, like,

this larger movement
for bodily autonomy.

GROUP (chanting):
Intersex surgery has got to go.

Hey, hey. Ho, ho.

ALICIA:
We are starting to be heard

by politicians and the media
in little, baby footsteps

that are actually
momentous footsteps

when you look at
how far we've come.

BRITT MORENO: The Austin City
Council approved a resolution

condemning nonconsensual and
medically unnecessary surgeries

on intersex children.

ALICIA: Thank you, Mayor,
council members.

Thank you for all of you
who have agreed

to support item 28
on the agenda,

ensuring that
intersex people like me

can live and thrive
as we deserve.

I do feel like a sea change
is happening.

(applause)

I have a confession to make
right off the bat.

I am intersex.

And I'm not gonna lie about it
or deny it.

I kind of gained confidence...

...in proclaiming that we are
intersex, not invisible.

...that I am intersex,
that I have XY chromosomes.

Nobody knew that I was intersex.

I kept it very private.

So we're still here,
and we're still gonna kick ass

and be powerful
intersex activists.

(overlapping chatter)

We have a duty to fight,
and we have a duty to win!

(chanting):
End intersex surgery!

End intersex surgery!

(fading):
End intersex surgery!

* Oh, stand by me *

* Oh, stand *

* Stand by me, stand by me *

-* Stand *
-(whoops)

* By me. *

-(crowd cheers)
-Thank you.

Thank you so much, everybody.

-I'm pissed the fuck off.
-(crowd cheers)

I'm pissed the fuck off
that we have to be here.

I was born without testicles.

The surgery that I had
at 16 years old

was a complete violation
of my human rights,

and now I live with it
every day,

a reminder in between my groin

that I have prosthetic testicles

that were not decided by me.

-And that's fucked up!
-That's fucked up!

-It's fucked up.
-(crowd murmurs in agreement)

I've had suicidal ideation.

I've had problems
with-with drugs and alcohol,

and it's all because
of the shame and the trauma

that I experienced
because I'm intersex.

We are amongst
an intersex revolution,

led first and foremost by
our trans siblings and family.

They have paved the way
so now we have the strength

to stand in our courage
and our bravery.

(crowd cheering)

We need
all institutions everywhere,

not just in New York City,

in all, in all hospitals
in the United States

and around the world,
to end these surgeries.

(chanting):
Unless I say, scalpels away.

(crowd joins in):
Unless I say, scalpels away.

Unless I say, scalpels away.
Unless I say, scalpels away.

Unless I say, scalpels away.

COHEN: D-Do you see
that you're beautiful?

RIVER: It's so funny
because sometimes,

honestly, I won't know
what I look like.

And then I look at myself
in the mirror.

I'm like,
"Oh, my God. I'm stunning."

Since coming out as intersex,

I definitely feel
more beautiful.

And I don't mean that
just, like, oh, like...

like, I got hot.

But it was more like
I got the confidence

to just start showing up
however I-I'd want to show up.

Wow, I did it.

That is exciting.

Drama for the gala.

("You Can't Judge a Book by the
Cover" by Elise LeGrow playing)

* You can't judge an apple
by looking at a tree *

* You can't judge honey
by looking at the bee... *

I think the curse
of being a filmmaker

is that now I'm super conscious
of good light.

This is good light, honestly.

Thank you. (chuckles)

* No, you misjudge me *

* I look like a fighter *

-(shouts)
-* But I'm a lover *

* Can't judge a book by looking
at the cover, no, no... *

ALICIA:
When you're intersex,

you're so defined
by doctors and parents

and society's idea
of who you should be,

you don't really learn
till later in life

who you actually are.

SAIFA: I'm very up-front
about who I am.

Some people are into it,
some people are not.

But the people who are into it
are into it.

Dating and romance,
not a problem.

Not at all.

(laughing)

* I said you can't catch me *

* I look like a fighter *

* But I'm a lover *

* Can't judge a book *

-* By looking at the cover *
-(laughing)

* No, can't catch me *

* I said you can't catch me... *

(chuckling):
What? Is that okay? Is it okay?

* But I'm a lover *

* Can't judge a book *

-* By looking at the cover. *
-(song ends)

MORRISON: All those thousands
of operations you referred to,

the vast majority of them

were with people called
intersexuals, as you know.

And you, yes,
were the great guinea pig

for, uh, that kind of surgery,

and your case was
probably misunderstood.

So, how do you think
those thousands of people feel?

I think that they would like
to be given the chance

and the opportunity to

be able to become
who they want to become.

I figure they should wait
until they're-- they know.

I mean, to me, if you wait
just a few extra years,

you could save yourself
a lifetime of pain

by doing it like that.

-By just waiting.
-By just waiting.

I'm really looking forward to
the day when a child is born,

instead of, "It's a boy,"
or, "It's a girl,"

people put a-- I don't know--

yellow sign on the front lawn
that says, "It's a baby."

Um, I want anyone hearing this,
watching this,

um, to know
that we are ten people

gathered together
in Northern California,

but it's just,
it's just the beginning,

and I can just feel
how this is going to grow.

And, uh, and-and we're
gonna change, um,

the way that we're,
the way that we're treated.

For liberation for lesbian, gay,

bisexual, transgender, queer
and intersex individuals.

-That's what I'm about to sign.
-(applause)

* *

I really do think before we die,

there's gonna be
a huge revolution,

because it's already
starting right now.

COHEN:
This is beautiful.

But there's one other thing
we want to film.

Wait. We're not doing
the little frolicking?

You are doing
a little frolicking.

That's what we're about to do
right now.

-("Good as Hell" playing)
-* I do my hair toss *

* Check my nails *

* Baby, how you feelin'? *

* Hair toss, check my nails *

* Baby, how you feelin'? *

* Whoo, child,
tired of the foolish *

* Go on, dust your shoulders
off, keep it moving *

* Yes, Lord,
step into some new kicks *

* In there, swimwear,
going to the pool quick *

* Come now and dry your eyes *

* I know you're a star,
you can touch the sky *

* I know that it's hard,
but you have to try *

* If you need advice,
let me simplify *

* He don't love you anymore *

* Walk your fine self
out the door *

* I do my hair toss,
check my nails *

* I said, baby,
how you feelin'? *

* Hair toss, check my nails *

* I said, baby,
how you feelin'? *

* Whoo! *

* Whoo, girl, go on,
kick off your shoes *

* Ya gotta take a deep breath,
time to focus on you *

* All the big fights, long
nights that you been through *

* I got a bottle of tequila
I been saving for you *

* Boss up and change your life *

* Go and let it all
hang out tonight *

* I know she treat me wrong,
but we'll make it right *

* So go and let it all
hang out tonight *

* They don't love you anymore *

* So walk your fine self
out the door... *

(vocalizing)

* Check my nails, I said,
baby, how you feelin'? *

* Hair toss, check my nails *

* I said, baby,
how you feelin'? *

* Whoo! *

* I do my hair toss,
check my nails *

* Baby, how you feelin'? *

* Hair toss, check my nails *

* Baby, how you feelin'? *

* Whoo! *

* Feelin' good as hell *

* Baby, how you feelin'?
Good as hell. *

-(song ends)
-(laughter)

RIVER:
You didn't see that coming.

-(laughter)
-COHEN: You guys got me.

* *

* *

* *

(music ends)