All language subtitles for American.Gospel.Christ.Alone.2018.720p.WEBRip.x264.AAC- YTS.MX

af Afrikaans
sq Albanian
am Amharic
ar Arabic Download
hy Armenian
az Azerbaijani
eu Basque
be Belarusian
bn Bengali
bs Bosnian
bg Bulgarian
ca Catalan
ceb Cebuano
ny Chichewa
zh-CN Chinese (Simplified)
zh-TW Chinese (Traditional)
co Corsican
hr Croatian Download
cs Czech
da Danish
nl Dutch
en English Download
eo Esperanto
et Estonian
tl Filipino Download
fi Finnish
fr French Download
fy Frisian
gl Galician
ka Georgian
de German Download
el Greek
gu Gujarati
ht Haitian Creole
ha Hausa
haw Hawaiian
iw Hebrew
hi Hindi
hmn Hmong
hu Hungarian Download
is Icelandic
ig Igbo
id Indonesian Download
ga Irish
it Italian Download
ja Japanese
jw Javanese
kn Kannada
kk Kazakh
km Khmer
ko Korean Download
ku Kurdish (Kurmanji)
ky Kyrgyz
lo Lao
la Latin
lv Latvian
lt Lithuanian
lb Luxembourgish
mk Macedonian
mg Malagasy
ms Malay
ml Malayalam
mt Maltese
mi Maori
mr Marathi
mn Mongolian
my Myanmar (Burmese)
ne Nepali
no Norwegian
ps Pashto
fa Persian Download
pl Polish
pt Portuguese
pa Punjabi
ro Romanian
ru Russian
sm Samoan
gd Scots Gaelic
sr Serbian
st Sesotho
sn Shona
sd Sindhi
si Sinhala
sk Slovak
sl Slovenian
so Somali
es Spanish Download
su Sundanese
sw Swahili
sv Swedish
tg Tajik
ta Tamil
te Telugu
th Thai
tr Turkish
uk Ukrainian
ur Urdu Download
uz Uzbek
vi Vietnamese
cy Welsh
xh Xhosa
yi Yiddish
yo Yoruba
zu Zulu
or Odia (Oriya)
rw Kinyarwanda
tk Turkmen
tt Tatar
ug Uyghur
Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:03,963 --> 00:00:07,007 [Nabeel] I was raised 2 00:00:03,963 --> 00:00:07,007 as a very devout Muslim 3 00:00:07,048 --> 00:00:08,216 in the United States. 4 00:00:08,258 --> 00:00:09,635 And the fact of the matter was, 5 00:00:09,677 --> 00:00:11,470 every time I connected 6 00:00:09,677 --> 00:00:11,470 with a Christian, 7 00:00:11,512 --> 00:00:12,805 I realized that they didn't know 8 00:00:12,847 --> 00:00:14,598 why they believed 9 00:00:12,847 --> 00:00:14,598 what they believed. 10 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:16,642 The Christians 11 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:16,642 who were around me 12 00:00:16,684 --> 00:00:17,852 wouldn't share 13 00:00:16,684 --> 00:00:17,852 the gospel with me, 14 00:00:17,893 --> 00:00:19,394 and I never realized why. 15 00:00:19,436 --> 00:00:20,980 I concluded 16 00:00:21,062 --> 00:00:22,940 either they didn't believe 17 00:00:21,062 --> 00:00:22,940 the gospel was true, 18 00:00:22,982 --> 00:00:24,316 or if they did believe it, 19 00:00:24,358 --> 00:00:26,568 they didn't care 20 00:00:24,358 --> 00:00:26,568 if I went to hell. 21 00:00:26,610 --> 00:00:28,069 [Paul] It is a pain to know 22 00:00:28,111 --> 00:00:30,781 that there are people 23 00:00:28,111 --> 00:00:30,781 who do not know Jesus. 24 00:00:30,823 --> 00:00:33,116 It is a greater pain to know 25 00:00:30,823 --> 00:00:33,116 that oftentimes 26 00:00:33,158 --> 00:00:36,912 Jesus and Christianity 27 00:00:33,158 --> 00:00:36,912 is being distorted. 28 00:00:36,954 --> 00:00:39,331 Who told you you can't 29 00:00:36,954 --> 00:00:39,331 accomplish your dreams? 30 00:00:39,373 --> 00:00:41,000 [Costi] I think 31 00:00:39,373 --> 00:00:41,000 around the world, 32 00:00:41,041 --> 00:00:44,252 they know the phrase, 33 00:00:41,041 --> 00:00:44,252 "The American Dream." 34 00:00:44,294 --> 00:00:46,296 [Joel Osteen] Your destiny 35 00:00:44,294 --> 00:00:46,296 is callin' out. 36 00:00:46,338 --> 00:00:48,549 It's time to 37 00:00:46,338 --> 00:00:48,549 start livin' large. 38 00:00:48,590 --> 00:00:50,300 [Sean] We are exporting 39 00:00:48,590 --> 00:00:50,300 the very worst 40 00:00:50,342 --> 00:00:52,761 of what Christianity 41 00:00:50,342 --> 00:00:52,761 has to offer. 42 00:00:52,803 --> 00:00:57,057 I declare you debt-free today, 43 00:00:52,803 --> 00:00:57,057 saith God. 44 00:00:57,098 --> 00:00:59,267 [Paul] So that many people 45 00:00:57,098 --> 00:00:59,267 harden their heart 46 00:00:59,309 --> 00:01:02,938 against a Jesus, a Christ, 47 00:00:59,309 --> 00:01:02,938 a Christianity, 48 00:01:02,980 --> 00:01:05,148 that is not 49 00:01:02,980 --> 00:01:05,148 the true version of it. 50 00:01:05,190 --> 00:01:07,902 It's as easy to get healed 51 00:01:07,943 --> 00:01:10,111 as it is to get forgiven. 52 00:01:10,153 --> 00:01:12,155 [Emilio] I live in Texas. 53 00:01:12,197 --> 00:01:15,659 We are considered the buckle 54 00:01:12,197 --> 00:01:15,659 on the Bible Belt. 55 00:01:15,701 --> 00:01:18,412 Around here, everybody thinks 56 00:01:15,701 --> 00:01:18,412 they're Christian 57 00:01:18,453 --> 00:01:22,332 simply because they live 58 00:01:18,453 --> 00:01:22,332 in a conservative region 59 00:01:22,374 --> 00:01:24,209 of the nation. 60 00:01:24,251 --> 00:01:26,420 [Michael] You can grow up 61 00:01:24,251 --> 00:01:26,420 in the church, 62 00:01:26,461 --> 00:01:28,505 hear a gospel about freedom, 63 00:01:28,547 --> 00:01:30,799 and still work your tail off 64 00:01:30,841 --> 00:01:33,468 trying to maintain the image 65 00:01:30,841 --> 00:01:33,468 that you're a good person. 66 00:01:33,510 --> 00:01:36,095 [Jared] I had my Jesus 67 00:01:33,510 --> 00:01:36,095 on Sunday mornings 68 00:01:36,137 --> 00:01:37,890 and Wednesday nights 69 00:01:36,137 --> 00:01:37,890 at youth group, 70 00:01:37,932 --> 00:01:40,559 and the rest of the week, 71 00:01:37,932 --> 00:01:40,559 I was chasing after 72 00:01:40,601 --> 00:01:42,644 worldly things 73 00:01:40,601 --> 00:01:42,644 that made me happy. 74 00:01:42,686 --> 00:01:44,730 I saw nothing to like about God. 75 00:01:44,772 --> 00:01:47,399 [Dr. Horton] You have 76 00:01:44,772 --> 00:01:47,399 an increasing number of people 77 00:01:47,441 --> 00:01:48,901 that were raised in churches 78 00:01:48,943 --> 00:01:49,944 that didn't take 79 00:01:48,943 --> 00:01:49,944 the gospel seriously, 80 00:01:49,985 --> 00:01:51,403 or took it for granted. 81 00:01:51,445 --> 00:01:54,406 [Jared] Wow, like Jesus 82 00:01:51,445 --> 00:01:54,406 died for my sins? 83 00:01:54,448 --> 00:01:55,908 That's so convenient for me. 84 00:01:55,950 --> 00:01:57,367 I don't have to go to hell, 85 00:01:57,409 --> 00:01:59,202 but I'm gonna go do 86 00:01:57,409 --> 00:01:59,202 my own thing. [laughs] 87 00:01:59,244 --> 00:02:01,204 [Dr. Horton] And surprise, 88 00:01:59,244 --> 00:02:01,204 surprise, they don't know 89 00:02:01,246 --> 00:02:03,164 what they believe 90 00:02:01,246 --> 00:02:03,164 or why they believe it. 91 00:02:03,206 --> 00:02:06,167 [Matt] We're assuming that 92 00:02:03,206 --> 00:02:06,167 people understand the gospel. 93 00:02:06,209 --> 00:02:08,003 I think it was 94 00:02:06,209 --> 00:02:08,003 Christian Smith who said 95 00:02:08,045 --> 00:02:10,422 that what we're seeing nowadays 96 00:02:08,045 --> 00:02:10,422 in the American church 97 00:02:10,464 --> 00:02:15,052 is the rise of what he calls 98 00:02:10,464 --> 00:02:15,052 "moralistic therapeutic deism." 99 00:02:15,094 --> 00:02:16,804 How to make people moral. 100 00:02:16,845 --> 00:02:18,430 You know, I look like 101 00:02:16,845 --> 00:02:18,430 this perfect golden child, 102 00:02:18,472 --> 00:02:20,140 but I was so dead. 103 00:02:20,181 --> 00:02:23,102 [Dr. Kim] A place to go to feel 104 00:02:20,181 --> 00:02:23,102 better about themselves. 105 00:02:23,143 --> 00:02:27,022 I'm asking you to feel good 106 00:02:23,143 --> 00:02:27,022 about who you are. 107 00:02:27,064 --> 00:02:30,818 [Dr. Kim] And so as a result, 108 00:02:27,064 --> 00:02:30,818 we're seeing a church in America 109 00:02:30,859 --> 00:02:32,903 that's becoming 110 00:02:30,859 --> 00:02:32,903 ultimately Christless. 111 00:02:32,945 --> 00:02:37,198 So if we're following the gospel 112 00:02:32,945 --> 00:02:37,198 thinking it's all about us, 113 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:39,326 we've missed 114 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:39,326 Jesus' words entirely. 115 00:02:39,367 --> 00:02:41,369 [Emilio] The fact that 116 00:02:39,367 --> 00:02:41,369 we were raised Christian 117 00:02:41,411 --> 00:02:43,246 doesn't make us a Christian. 118 00:02:43,288 --> 00:02:46,500 We have to have 119 00:02:43,288 --> 00:02:46,500 a supernatural rebirth. 120 00:02:46,541 --> 00:02:49,128 I went from somebody 121 00:02:46,541 --> 00:02:49,128 who hated Jesus 122 00:02:49,168 --> 00:02:51,296 to a guy that loved Jesus 123 00:02:51,338 --> 00:02:55,009 and spent all his time 124 00:02:51,338 --> 00:02:55,009 at church. Why? 125 00:02:55,050 --> 00:02:58,512 When you come in contact 126 00:02:55,050 --> 00:02:58,512 with Him, you change. 127 00:02:58,553 --> 00:02:59,930 Like, there is nothing 128 00:02:58,553 --> 00:02:59,930 that I could have done 129 00:02:59,972 --> 00:03:01,222 to make this happen. 130 00:03:01,264 --> 00:03:03,391 Like, He literally gave me 131 00:03:01,264 --> 00:03:03,391 a new heart. 132 00:03:03,433 --> 00:03:06,603 And when the heart changes, 133 00:03:03,433 --> 00:03:06,603 everything changes. 134 00:03:06,645 --> 00:03:10,732 [Jonathan] If this is true, 135 00:03:06,645 --> 00:03:10,732 this story is so captivating. 136 00:03:10,774 --> 00:03:13,360 All I knew is that I had 137 00:03:10,774 --> 00:03:13,360 severely overlooked something. 138 00:03:13,401 --> 00:03:15,570 [Emilio] 139 00:03:13,401 --> 00:03:15,570 I opened that word, 140 00:03:15,612 --> 00:03:17,823 and nothing was ever the same. 141 00:03:17,865 --> 00:03:20,492 [dramatic music] 142 00:03:28,500 --> 00:03:30,293 [Dr. Chapell] 143 00:03:28,500 --> 00:03:30,293 There was a time in my life 144 00:03:30,335 --> 00:03:32,713 that I thought 145 00:03:30,335 --> 00:03:32,713 the goal of preaching 146 00:03:32,754 --> 00:03:36,175 was to get people to do 147 00:03:32,754 --> 00:03:36,175 what they don't want to do, 148 00:03:36,216 --> 00:03:38,552 which--which by the way, 149 00:03:36,216 --> 00:03:38,552 is a terrible profession, 150 00:03:38,593 --> 00:03:40,512 you know, that my goal 151 00:03:38,593 --> 00:03:40,512 was to somehow arm-twist 152 00:03:40,554 --> 00:03:44,058 or browbeat people into doing 153 00:03:40,554 --> 00:03:44,058 what they don't want to do. 154 00:03:44,099 --> 00:03:45,726 I don't believe that anymore. 155 00:03:45,767 --> 00:03:47,644 I don't believe that's 156 00:03:45,767 --> 00:03:47,644 what the Bible teaches. 157 00:03:47,686 --> 00:03:50,397 [Phill] One of the biggest 158 00:03:47,686 --> 00:03:50,397 turning points for me 159 00:03:50,438 --> 00:03:53,274 happened while I was 160 00:03:50,438 --> 00:03:53,274 a youth pastor at a church. 161 00:03:53,316 --> 00:03:55,110 And it's kind of sad thing 162 00:03:53,316 --> 00:03:55,110 to look back, 163 00:03:55,152 --> 00:03:58,072 like, I'm a pastor, 164 00:03:55,152 --> 00:03:58,072 I'm teaching the Bible. 165 00:03:58,113 --> 00:04:00,365 But I didn't know 166 00:03:58,113 --> 00:04:00,365 what it meant to teach 167 00:04:00,407 --> 00:04:01,825 the gospel and the Bible 168 00:04:01,867 --> 00:04:04,244 because I wasn't really 169 00:04:01,867 --> 00:04:04,244 telling people 170 00:04:04,285 --> 00:04:05,787 the good news about Jesus. 171 00:04:05,829 --> 00:04:08,916 I was telling them 172 00:04:05,829 --> 00:04:08,916 to be a passionate, zealous, 173 00:04:08,957 --> 00:04:11,043 committed, radical Christian. 174 00:04:11,085 --> 00:04:12,586 I was very passionate. 175 00:04:12,627 --> 00:04:16,048 In a lot of ways, my church 176 00:04:12,627 --> 00:04:16,048 put emphasis on things 177 00:04:16,090 --> 00:04:18,008 that scripture didn't 178 00:04:16,090 --> 00:04:18,008 put emphasis on. 179 00:04:18,050 --> 00:04:20,594 I don't think Jesus 180 00:04:18,050 --> 00:04:20,594 was the center 181 00:04:20,635 --> 00:04:22,303 or the gospel was the center, 182 00:04:22,345 --> 00:04:26,016 it was more so what we do, 183 00:04:22,345 --> 00:04:26,016 what we can do. 184 00:04:26,058 --> 00:04:28,102 And so as a new believer, 185 00:04:28,143 --> 00:04:31,146 I never really knew that 186 00:04:28,143 --> 00:04:31,146 the gospel was a big deal. 187 00:04:31,188 --> 00:04:33,398 [Phill] 188 00:04:31,188 --> 00:04:33,398 And I was realizing 189 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:36,777 how Christless preaching was, 190 00:04:36,818 --> 00:04:40,572 and I can remember a sermon 191 00:04:36,818 --> 00:04:40,572 from the Sermon on the Mount, 192 00:04:40,614 --> 00:04:45,244 and it was "Ten Tips 193 00:04:40,614 --> 00:04:45,244 on How to Be Sexually Pure." 194 00:04:45,285 --> 00:04:48,205 And I remember that day, 195 00:04:45,285 --> 00:04:48,205 like that being a turning point 196 00:04:48,247 --> 00:04:49,790 in my journey to say, 197 00:04:49,831 --> 00:04:54,086 "I never want to be a pastor 198 00:04:49,831 --> 00:04:54,086 or preacher like that." 199 00:04:54,128 --> 00:04:57,672 Like, what are you doing 200 00:04:54,128 --> 00:04:57,672 to earn God's favor? 201 00:04:57,714 --> 00:05:00,508 Have you tithed enough? 202 00:04:57,714 --> 00:05:00,508 Have you given enough? 203 00:05:00,550 --> 00:05:02,136 Have you prayed long enough? 204 00:05:02,177 --> 00:05:04,846 Have you laid hands on anybody 205 00:05:02,177 --> 00:05:04,846 in the last week? 206 00:05:04,888 --> 00:05:06,389 Have you spoke in tongues? 207 00:05:06,431 --> 00:05:08,016 If not, 208 00:05:06,431 --> 00:05:08,016 then you're not a believer. 209 00:05:08,058 --> 00:05:09,517 [Matt] In fact, 210 00:05:08,058 --> 00:05:09,517 I think the thing 211 00:05:09,559 --> 00:05:10,811 most common among unbelievers 212 00:05:10,852 --> 00:05:12,312 when they think 213 00:05:10,852 --> 00:05:12,312 about Christianity, 214 00:05:12,353 --> 00:05:14,273 is they think 215 00:05:12,353 --> 00:05:14,273 about Christian moralism. 216 00:05:14,314 --> 00:05:17,192 What we believe about sex, 217 00:05:14,314 --> 00:05:17,192 what we believe about money, 218 00:05:17,234 --> 00:05:18,986 what we believe about them. 219 00:05:19,027 --> 00:05:22,781 The most common misperception 220 00:05:19,027 --> 00:05:22,781 about what Christianity is, 221 00:05:22,823 --> 00:05:25,492 is it's some sort of 222 00:05:22,823 --> 00:05:25,492 moral betterment program. 223 00:05:25,533 --> 00:05:26,994 And it is about being good. 224 00:05:27,035 --> 00:05:28,870 And that's what 225 00:05:27,035 --> 00:05:28,870 all religions are about anyway: 226 00:05:28,912 --> 00:05:30,872 be a good person. 227 00:05:30,914 --> 00:05:33,250 There's few things as damning 228 00:05:30,914 --> 00:05:33,250 and devastating 229 00:05:33,292 --> 00:05:36,086 to the human spirit than-- 230 00:05:33,292 --> 00:05:36,086 than that message. 231 00:05:36,128 --> 00:05:37,671 We want to, first of all, 232 00:05:37,712 --> 00:05:39,422 say there's nothing wrong 233 00:05:37,712 --> 00:05:39,422 with preaching morality. 234 00:05:39,464 --> 00:05:42,592 We certainly don't wanna preach 235 00:05:39,464 --> 00:05:42,592 the opposite, immorality. 236 00:05:42,634 --> 00:05:44,094 But moralistic preaching, 237 00:05:44,136 --> 00:05:46,847 or sometimes 238 00:05:44,136 --> 00:05:46,847 identified as moralism, 239 00:05:46,888 --> 00:05:50,309 is preaching the commands 240 00:05:46,888 --> 00:05:50,309 of scripture 241 00:05:50,349 --> 00:05:53,854 or the morals of scripture 242 00:05:50,349 --> 00:05:53,854 and nothing else. 243 00:05:53,895 --> 00:05:55,563 Just pretty much 244 00:05:53,895 --> 00:05:55,563 saying to people, 245 00:05:55,605 --> 00:05:58,566 "You be a good person 246 00:05:55,605 --> 00:05:58,566 and God will love you for that." 247 00:05:58,608 --> 00:06:00,277 And while we do not intend it, 248 00:06:00,319 --> 00:06:02,612 that is not just 249 00:06:00,319 --> 00:06:02,612 a sub-Christian message, 250 00:06:02,654 --> 00:06:05,406 it's actually 251 00:06:02,654 --> 00:06:05,406 an anti-Christian message. 252 00:06:05,448 --> 00:06:07,534 [Phill] I was hearing 253 00:06:05,448 --> 00:06:07,534 from the Sermon on the Mount, 254 00:06:07,575 --> 00:06:09,119 from Jesus, 255 00:06:09,161 --> 00:06:13,123 "Here's how not to be 256 00:06:09,161 --> 00:06:13,123 sexually immoral." 257 00:06:13,165 --> 00:06:15,583 But then I'm thinking 258 00:06:13,165 --> 00:06:15,583 about the passage 259 00:06:15,625 --> 00:06:17,376 in the Sermon on the Mount, 260 00:06:15,625 --> 00:06:17,376 and the whole point 261 00:06:17,418 --> 00:06:18,879 is to try and tell us, 262 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:21,340 "You're not sexually moral." 263 00:06:21,380 --> 00:06:24,551 Your righteousness should exceed 264 00:06:21,380 --> 00:06:24,551 that of the Pharisees, 265 00:06:24,592 --> 00:06:26,845 and you think that it's about 266 00:06:26,887 --> 00:06:29,597 keeping these lists of rules 267 00:06:26,887 --> 00:06:29,597 and the Ten Commandments, 268 00:06:29,639 --> 00:06:31,058 Well, "I say to you," 269 00:06:31,099 --> 00:06:33,768 and He takes it to the heart, 270 00:06:31,099 --> 00:06:33,768 and He says, 271 00:06:33,810 --> 00:06:37,522 if you have lust in your heart, 272 00:06:33,810 --> 00:06:37,522 then you're falling way short. 273 00:06:37,564 --> 00:06:39,524 And he concludes that section 274 00:06:37,564 --> 00:06:39,524 in Matthew 5, 275 00:06:39,566 --> 00:06:41,818 by saying, "Be perfect as your 276 00:06:39,566 --> 00:06:41,818 heavenly Father is perfect." 277 00:06:41,860 --> 00:06:43,570 But that's not the sermon 278 00:06:41,860 --> 00:06:43,570 that was preached. 279 00:06:43,611 --> 00:06:48,407 It was, "You can be pure, 280 00:06:43,611 --> 00:06:48,407 you can be sexually moral, 281 00:06:48,449 --> 00:06:50,451 and here's your ten tips." 282 00:06:50,493 --> 00:06:52,871 You're giving them a goal that 283 00:06:50,493 --> 00:06:52,871 they'll never be able to attain. 284 00:06:52,913 --> 00:06:54,373 Period. 285 00:06:54,413 --> 00:06:58,168 The messages that just say, 286 00:06:54,413 --> 00:06:58,168 "Be good"... 287 00:06:58,210 --> 00:07:00,545 damn people... 288 00:07:01,838 --> 00:07:05,175 to their pride or to despair. 289 00:07:05,217 --> 00:07:08,845 There are really only two 290 00:07:05,217 --> 00:07:08,845 possible human responses. 291 00:07:08,887 --> 00:07:12,266 One response 292 00:07:08,887 --> 00:07:12,266 to a "be good" message is, 293 00:07:12,307 --> 00:07:14,893 "Been there, done that, 294 00:07:12,307 --> 00:07:14,893 checked off that box." 295 00:07:14,935 --> 00:07:17,354 The person will believe 296 00:07:14,935 --> 00:07:17,354 they can attain it, 297 00:07:17,396 --> 00:07:19,522 be the Pharisee, um, 298 00:07:19,564 --> 00:07:21,358 and work, and work, 299 00:07:19,564 --> 00:07:21,358 and work, and work. 300 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:22,859 Or be the Mormon, 301 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:22,859 and work, and work. 302 00:07:22,901 --> 00:07:24,403 Or the Muslim, 303 00:07:24,444 --> 00:07:25,987 or the Jehovah's Witness. 304 00:07:24,444 --> 00:07:25,987 All of 'em. 305 00:07:26,029 --> 00:07:29,657 [laughs] 306 00:07:26,029 --> 00:07:29,657 You'll try to earn salvation 307 00:07:29,699 --> 00:07:31,743 by trying to be a good person. 308 00:07:31,785 --> 00:07:33,494 Why do I have to, 309 00:07:31,785 --> 00:07:33,494 you know, repent? 310 00:07:33,536 --> 00:07:35,455 Why do I have to ask 311 00:07:33,536 --> 00:07:35,455 for forgiveness 312 00:07:35,496 --> 00:07:37,416 if you're not making mistakes? 313 00:07:37,457 --> 00:07:40,627 I work hard, 314 00:07:37,457 --> 00:07:40,627 I'm an honorable person. 315 00:07:40,668 --> 00:07:44,172 [Dr. Chapell] 316 00:07:40,668 --> 00:07:44,172 Jesus is walking down 317 00:07:40,668 --> 00:07:44,172 the road one day, 318 00:07:44,214 --> 00:07:46,716 and a young man comes up to Him 319 00:07:46,758 --> 00:07:48,927 and says, "Good Teacher, 320 00:07:48,969 --> 00:07:52,513 what must I do 321 00:07:48,969 --> 00:07:52,513 to inherit eternal life?" 322 00:07:52,555 --> 00:07:54,766 Now, it sounds like 323 00:07:52,555 --> 00:07:54,766 a very safe question-- 324 00:07:54,808 --> 00:07:56,101 it's actually a landmine. 325 00:07:56,143 --> 00:07:59,187 "What must I do 326 00:07:56,143 --> 00:07:59,187 to inherit eternal life?" 327 00:07:59,229 --> 00:08:00,688 Already, it's about performance. 328 00:08:00,730 --> 00:08:03,733 "What must I do 329 00:08:00,730 --> 00:08:03,733 to inherit eternal life?" 330 00:08:03,775 --> 00:08:07,404 And Jesus responds 331 00:08:03,775 --> 00:08:07,404 with great wisdom. 332 00:08:07,446 --> 00:08:10,615 He says, 333 00:08:07,446 --> 00:08:10,615 "Why do you call Me good? 334 00:08:10,657 --> 00:08:13,994 Only God is good." 335 00:08:14,035 --> 00:08:16,371 And then he says, 336 00:08:14,035 --> 00:08:16,371 "You know the commandments." 337 00:08:16,413 --> 00:08:19,666 But Joy, then what-but what 338 00:08:16,413 --> 00:08:19,666 is the standard of goodness? 339 00:08:19,707 --> 00:08:21,376 Be good to your neighbor. 340 00:08:21,418 --> 00:08:22,585 -Don't cheat on your husband. 341 00:08:21,418 --> 00:08:22,585 -Okay. But it's-- 342 00:08:22,627 --> 00:08:23,670 -Don't steal. 343 00:08:22,627 --> 00:08:23,670 -But in the-- 344 00:08:23,711 --> 00:08:24,963 Don't lie, don't steal. 345 00:08:25,005 --> 00:08:27,299 Gives them the list 346 00:08:25,005 --> 00:08:27,299 of the commands. 347 00:08:27,341 --> 00:08:29,217 But in the Bible, God's standard 348 00:08:29,259 --> 00:08:31,886 -is the Ten Commandments. 349 00:08:29,259 --> 00:08:31,886 -I'm good on that, too. 350 00:08:31,928 --> 00:08:34,597 [Dr. Chapell] And the young man 351 00:08:31,928 --> 00:08:34,597 immediately says, 352 00:08:34,639 --> 00:08:37,184 "All these I have kept 353 00:08:34,639 --> 00:08:37,184 since I was a boy." 354 00:08:37,225 --> 00:08:38,852 Jesus just said, 355 00:08:38,893 --> 00:08:42,647 "Only God is good." 356 00:08:42,689 --> 00:08:45,900 And two seconds later, 357 00:08:42,689 --> 00:08:45,900 what does the young man say? 358 00:08:45,942 --> 00:08:48,945 -"Me too!" 359 00:08:45,942 --> 00:08:48,945 -[congregation laughs] 360 00:08:48,987 --> 00:08:51,823 In which case, 361 00:08:48,987 --> 00:08:51,823 he gives himself the status 362 00:08:51,865 --> 00:08:53,200 and the stature of God. 363 00:08:53,241 --> 00:08:54,951 It's just pure pride. 364 00:08:54,993 --> 00:08:57,037 And by the way, breaks 365 00:08:54,993 --> 00:08:57,037 the very first commandment, 366 00:08:57,078 --> 00:08:58,955 "You shall have no other gods." 367 00:08:58,997 --> 00:09:01,208 You've never told 368 00:08:58,997 --> 00:09:01,208 a lie before? Ever? 369 00:09:01,249 --> 00:09:02,625 What? Is that one 370 00:09:01,249 --> 00:09:02,625 of the commandments? 371 00:09:02,667 --> 00:09:04,669 -It's number nine. 372 00:09:02,667 --> 00:09:04,669 -Never mind. 373 00:09:04,711 --> 00:09:07,630 [Jackie] Jesus is like, "Okay, 374 00:09:04,711 --> 00:09:07,630 sell everything you have." 375 00:09:07,672 --> 00:09:09,549 Dude walked away. 376 00:09:09,590 --> 00:09:10,800 So you're not good. 377 00:09:10,842 --> 00:09:12,469 [laughs] 378 00:09:10,842 --> 00:09:12,469 You can't be good. 379 00:09:12,511 --> 00:09:15,472 And Jesus already lays out 380 00:09:12,511 --> 00:09:15,472 the foundation 381 00:09:15,514 --> 00:09:17,932 that only God is good, 382 00:09:17,974 --> 00:09:20,685 because He defines 383 00:09:17,974 --> 00:09:20,685 what goodness truly is. 384 00:09:20,727 --> 00:09:22,354 I try and lead a life 385 00:09:22,396 --> 00:09:24,398 where I don't have to ask 386 00:09:22,396 --> 00:09:24,398 God for forgiveness. 387 00:09:24,439 --> 00:09:25,690 [Ray] If you have a proud heart, 388 00:09:25,732 --> 00:09:27,359 and most people 389 00:09:25,732 --> 00:09:27,359 are very proud of heart, 390 00:09:27,401 --> 00:09:28,943 and the way to find that out 391 00:09:28,985 --> 00:09:30,570 is just say, "Do you think 392 00:09:28,985 --> 00:09:30,570 you're a good person?" 393 00:09:30,611 --> 00:09:32,322 All in all, I'm a good person. 394 00:09:30,611 --> 00:09:32,322 I don't-- 395 00:09:32,364 --> 00:09:34,866 I don't really lie, 396 00:09:32,364 --> 00:09:34,866 cheat or steal, so... 397 00:09:34,908 --> 00:09:37,035 [Ray] You don't lie? 398 00:09:37,077 --> 00:09:38,661 You know what? 399 00:09:37,077 --> 00:09:38,661 Never mind. I'll take that back. 400 00:09:38,703 --> 00:09:41,622 I don't tell huge lies. 401 00:09:38,703 --> 00:09:41,622 I tell white lies. 402 00:09:41,664 --> 00:09:43,041 I believe I'm a good person. 403 00:09:41,664 --> 00:09:43,041 I'm very-- 404 00:09:43,083 --> 00:09:44,584 -You do? 405 00:09:43,083 --> 00:09:44,584 -Yeah. 406 00:09:44,625 --> 00:09:45,960 How many lies have you told 407 00:09:44,625 --> 00:09:45,960 in your whole life? 408 00:09:46,002 --> 00:09:47,546 Um, I can't count them. 409 00:09:46,002 --> 00:09:47,546 [chuckles] 410 00:09:47,587 --> 00:09:48,838 [Ray] You ever stolen something? 411 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:50,673 Stolen something before? 412 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:50,673 Yes, I have. 413 00:09:50,715 --> 00:09:52,926 [Ray] 414 00:09:50,715 --> 00:09:52,926 I think the misunderstanding 415 00:09:52,967 --> 00:09:56,346 is that God's law was given 416 00:09:52,967 --> 00:09:56,346 as a standard for us to live by. 417 00:09:56,388 --> 00:09:57,931 Well, try and live by it. 418 00:09:57,972 --> 00:10:00,392 [Dan] Well, the law's a mirror. 419 00:10:00,434 --> 00:10:04,187 It's just simply meant 420 00:10:00,434 --> 00:10:04,187 to reflect what God thinks, 421 00:10:04,229 --> 00:10:06,647 who God is, 422 00:10:04,229 --> 00:10:06,647 how He wants you to live. 423 00:10:06,689 --> 00:10:08,358 And then you get to look 424 00:10:06,689 --> 00:10:08,358 in the mirror 425 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:10,944 and you get to go, 426 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:10,944 "How do I fit that standard?" 427 00:10:10,985 --> 00:10:12,446 [Ray] You know, "Love God 428 00:10:10,985 --> 00:10:12,446 with your heart, mind, 429 00:10:12,487 --> 00:10:14,072 soul and strength, 430 00:10:12,487 --> 00:10:14,072 and love your neighbor 431 00:10:14,114 --> 00:10:15,449 as much as you love yourself," 432 00:10:15,490 --> 00:10:17,117 because that's the essence 433 00:10:15,490 --> 00:10:17,117 of the law. 434 00:10:17,158 --> 00:10:18,868 We can't do it. 435 00:10:18,910 --> 00:10:20,954 Have you ever used 436 00:10:18,910 --> 00:10:20,954 God's name in vain? 437 00:10:22,663 --> 00:10:24,040 Accidentally. I'm trying-- 438 00:10:22,663 --> 00:10:24,040 I'm trying to get rid of that. 439 00:10:24,082 --> 00:10:25,708 -So you've done it? 440 00:10:24,082 --> 00:10:25,708 -Yes. 441 00:10:25,750 --> 00:10:27,502 It's called blasphemy. 442 00:10:25,750 --> 00:10:27,502 It's very serious. 443 00:10:27,544 --> 00:10:29,712 [Dan] I've never known 444 00:10:27,544 --> 00:10:29,712 anybody in my whole life 445 00:10:29,754 --> 00:10:31,131 that has looked in a mirror 446 00:10:31,172 --> 00:10:33,467 and said, "I have 447 00:10:31,172 --> 00:10:33,467 something in my teeth," 448 00:10:33,508 --> 00:10:35,051 and then taken the mirror 449 00:10:33,508 --> 00:10:35,051 off the wall 450 00:10:35,093 --> 00:10:36,886 and tried to pick 451 00:10:35,093 --> 00:10:36,886 their teeth with it. 452 00:10:36,928 --> 00:10:39,806 Now Jesus said, "If you look 453 00:10:36,928 --> 00:10:39,806 at a woman and lust for her, 454 00:10:39,847 --> 00:10:41,558 you commit adultery with 455 00:10:39,847 --> 00:10:41,558 her in your heart." 456 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:42,809 Have you ever done that? 457 00:10:42,850 --> 00:10:44,060 Yes. 458 00:10:44,102 --> 00:10:45,770 I'm not gonna lie, I did. 459 00:10:45,812 --> 00:10:47,063 [Dan] And you don't take the law 460 00:10:47,105 --> 00:10:49,065 and then try 461 00:10:47,105 --> 00:10:49,065 to fix yourself with it. 462 00:10:49,107 --> 00:10:50,691 You take the law and say, 463 00:10:50,733 --> 00:10:53,403 "I'm in need of help 464 00:10:50,733 --> 00:10:53,403 because something is wrong." 465 00:10:53,445 --> 00:10:55,029 If we don't understand 466 00:10:53,445 --> 00:10:55,029 who God is, 467 00:10:55,071 --> 00:10:57,698 then the gospel does not make 468 00:10:55,071 --> 00:10:57,698 much sense. 469 00:10:57,740 --> 00:11:01,911 You see, the great issue here 470 00:10:57,740 --> 00:11:01,911 is that God is holy, 471 00:11:01,953 --> 00:11:04,623 and God is just. 472 00:11:04,664 --> 00:11:07,041 And that man is unholy, 473 00:11:07,083 --> 00:11:08,460 and man is not just. 474 00:11:08,502 --> 00:11:10,253 Man is unrighteous, 475 00:11:08,502 --> 00:11:10,253 man is a sinner. 476 00:11:10,295 --> 00:11:12,130 So, Eduardo, 477 00:11:10,295 --> 00:11:12,130 I'm not judging you, 478 00:11:12,172 --> 00:11:13,672 but you've just told me 479 00:11:12,172 --> 00:11:13,672 you're a lying thief, 480 00:11:13,714 --> 00:11:15,674 a blasphemer, 481 00:11:13,714 --> 00:11:15,674 and an adulterer at heart. 482 00:11:15,716 --> 00:11:17,177 And that's only four 483 00:11:15,716 --> 00:11:17,177 of the Ten Commandments. 484 00:11:17,218 --> 00:11:18,761 [Marshall] We can look 485 00:11:17,218 --> 00:11:18,761 at others and go, 486 00:11:18,803 --> 00:11:20,054 "Well, I'm not as bad as them, 487 00:11:20,096 --> 00:11:22,557 and I didn't do 488 00:11:20,096 --> 00:11:22,557 all of that, but... 489 00:11:22,599 --> 00:11:24,184 So I'm not that bad." 490 00:11:24,225 --> 00:11:25,810 Well, that's a lie. 491 00:11:25,852 --> 00:11:28,062 You're bad compared to Christ, 492 00:11:28,104 --> 00:11:30,815 who is altogether lovely, 493 00:11:28,104 --> 00:11:30,815 who is holy. 494 00:11:30,857 --> 00:11:32,484 We pale in comparison. 495 00:11:32,526 --> 00:11:35,736 So a person needs to really take 496 00:11:32,526 --> 00:11:35,736 a good look at Jesus, 497 00:11:35,778 --> 00:11:37,989 and then you know who you are. 498 00:11:38,031 --> 00:11:41,368 [Michael Durham] 499 00:11:38,031 --> 00:11:41,368 My problem of sin 500 00:11:41,409 --> 00:11:43,744 goes far beyond my actions. 501 00:11:43,786 --> 00:11:46,206 It goes to who I am as a person. 502 00:11:46,247 --> 00:11:50,168 I have a nature of sin. 503 00:11:46,247 --> 00:11:50,168 That is my essence. 504 00:11:50,210 --> 00:11:52,629 The human heart 505 00:11:50,210 --> 00:11:52,629 is predisposed right now 506 00:11:52,671 --> 00:11:55,048 to love everything else 507 00:11:52,671 --> 00:11:55,048 besides God, 508 00:11:55,089 --> 00:11:56,799 to love self more than God, 509 00:11:56,841 --> 00:11:58,593 to love wrong more than right. 510 00:11:58,635 --> 00:12:01,846 The heart is totally opposed 511 00:11:58,635 --> 00:12:01,846 to God. 512 00:12:02,763 --> 00:12:04,599 Conceived in iniquity, 513 00:12:04,641 --> 00:12:06,226 born in sin. 514 00:12:06,267 --> 00:12:11,064 99.9% of people 515 00:12:06,267 --> 00:12:11,064 are not bad people. 516 00:12:11,105 --> 00:12:12,773 They may make poor choices, 517 00:12:12,815 --> 00:12:15,485 but deep down, 518 00:12:12,815 --> 00:12:15,485 they've got a good heart. 519 00:12:15,527 --> 00:12:18,572 You and I are naturally 520 00:12:15,527 --> 00:12:18,572 rebels to God. 521 00:12:18,613 --> 00:12:20,156 [J.D.] So how do you fix 522 00:12:20,198 --> 00:12:21,366 the broken part 523 00:12:20,198 --> 00:12:21,366 of the human heart 524 00:12:21,408 --> 00:12:23,034 that loves the wrong things? 525 00:12:23,076 --> 00:12:27,581 The Bible says that we are dead 526 00:12:23,076 --> 00:12:27,581 in trespasses and sin. 527 00:12:27,622 --> 00:12:31,042 Ephesians 2 verse 1 528 00:12:27,622 --> 00:12:31,042 immediately comes to mind. 529 00:12:31,084 --> 00:12:34,588 To be dead in sin means 530 00:12:34,629 --> 00:12:37,131 that we are physically alive, 531 00:12:37,173 --> 00:12:41,344 but that we are morally unable 532 00:12:41,386 --> 00:12:43,304 to respond to God. 533 00:12:43,346 --> 00:12:45,181 What can a dead man do? 534 00:12:45,223 --> 00:12:47,808 And the gospel 535 00:12:45,223 --> 00:12:47,808 not only addresses 536 00:12:47,850 --> 00:12:49,936 my behavior, my actions, 537 00:12:49,977 --> 00:12:52,355 it addresses who I am 538 00:12:52,397 --> 00:12:55,609 by promising to change me 539 00:12:55,650 --> 00:12:59,987 at the core basic level 540 00:12:55,650 --> 00:12:59,987 of personhood. 541 00:13:00,029 --> 00:13:05,201 [Dr. Lawson] Therefore, God 542 00:13:00,029 --> 00:13:05,201 must perform a resurrection. 543 00:13:05,243 --> 00:13:07,078 So if God judges you 544 00:13:05,243 --> 00:13:07,078 by the Ten Commandments 545 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:09,497 on Judgement Day, are you 546 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:09,497 gonna be innocent or guilty? 547 00:13:10,915 --> 00:13:12,875 By the guidelines, 548 00:13:10,915 --> 00:13:12,875 I'm going to be guilty. 549 00:13:12,917 --> 00:13:16,087 -[Ray] Heaven or hell? 550 00:13:12,917 --> 00:13:16,087 -I'm assuming hell. 551 00:13:16,129 --> 00:13:17,964 In that case, 552 00:13:16,129 --> 00:13:17,964 everyone would be a bad person. 553 00:13:18,005 --> 00:13:19,132 [Ray] Yeah, that's what 554 00:13:18,005 --> 00:13:19,132 the Bible says. It says, 555 00:13:19,173 --> 00:13:20,717 "There's none good," 556 00:13:20,759 --> 00:13:23,678 because good in God's book 557 00:13:20,759 --> 00:13:23,678 means morally perfect. 558 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:27,390 [Dr. Chapell] So if all we say 559 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:27,390 to people is: "Be good," 560 00:13:27,432 --> 00:13:28,683 the other human response is: 561 00:13:28,725 --> 00:13:31,144 "Wait, what does it mean 562 00:13:28,725 --> 00:13:31,144 to be good? 563 00:13:31,185 --> 00:13:34,648 Does it mean to be as holy 564 00:13:31,185 --> 00:13:34,648 as God is holy? 565 00:13:34,689 --> 00:13:37,609 Never lie? Never be selfish? 566 00:13:37,651 --> 00:13:41,738 Never in any way do things 567 00:13:37,651 --> 00:13:41,738 that are contrary to God's law?" 568 00:13:41,780 --> 00:13:43,531 Oh, my. I'm-- 569 00:13:43,573 --> 00:13:45,700 I'm in despair now. 570 00:13:45,742 --> 00:13:47,744 What you're doing is, 571 00:13:45,742 --> 00:13:47,744 you're revealing 572 00:13:47,786 --> 00:13:50,664 in the hearts of your people 573 00:13:47,786 --> 00:13:50,664 their shortcomings and failures. 574 00:13:50,705 --> 00:13:54,292 So to just leave it 575 00:13:50,705 --> 00:13:54,292 in their hands and their effort 576 00:13:54,334 --> 00:13:56,336 puts a weight on them 577 00:13:54,334 --> 00:13:56,336 they can't bear up under. 578 00:13:56,377 --> 00:13:59,005 I felt like I was walking 579 00:13:56,377 --> 00:13:59,005 on eggshells all the time 580 00:13:59,046 --> 00:14:01,882 because it felt as if 581 00:13:59,046 --> 00:14:01,882 at any moment I can go to hell 582 00:14:01,924 --> 00:14:03,384 because I'm not doing enough. 583 00:14:03,426 --> 00:14:05,261 And that's where you see 584 00:14:03,426 --> 00:14:05,261 a lot of people 585 00:14:05,303 --> 00:14:06,763 who grew up in churches 586 00:14:06,805 --> 00:14:08,889 where the gospel 587 00:14:06,805 --> 00:14:08,889 might not have been 588 00:14:08,931 --> 00:14:11,267 really fleshed out, 589 00:14:08,931 --> 00:14:11,267 where they become atheists 590 00:14:11,309 --> 00:14:13,603 because it's like, I can't do 591 00:14:11,309 --> 00:14:13,603 enough to please Him anyway. 592 00:14:13,645 --> 00:14:16,815 So, why--why trust Him? 593 00:14:13,645 --> 00:14:16,815 Why believe in Him? 594 00:14:16,897 --> 00:14:18,316 I'm still the same person. 595 00:14:18,358 --> 00:14:20,151 I'm still wicked. 596 00:14:18,358 --> 00:14:20,151 I'm still sinful. 597 00:14:20,193 --> 00:14:22,654 Well, what if 598 00:14:20,193 --> 00:14:22,654 I have failed sexually? 599 00:14:22,696 --> 00:14:24,238 If I'm a man 600 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:26,240 sitting in a church service 601 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:26,240 at that moment, 602 00:14:26,282 --> 00:14:28,075 I have no hope as I walk out. 603 00:14:28,117 --> 00:14:31,287 I'm just told, "Here's ten ways 604 00:14:28,117 --> 00:14:31,287 that you should try harder." 605 00:14:31,329 --> 00:14:34,666 [Dr. Kim] We're damning people 606 00:14:31,329 --> 00:14:34,666 to those twin possibilities 607 00:14:34,708 --> 00:14:37,960 of pride on the one hand, 608 00:14:34,708 --> 00:14:37,960 or despair on the other. 609 00:14:38,002 --> 00:14:40,463 And this is why 610 00:14:38,002 --> 00:14:40,463 the gospel is so important. 611 00:14:40,505 --> 00:14:42,131 Because the gospel comes in, 612 00:14:42,173 --> 00:14:43,924 in the middle of both of those, 613 00:14:43,966 --> 00:14:45,677 and says, "Yeah, you're right, 614 00:14:45,719 --> 00:14:48,304 you aren't good enough, 615 00:14:45,719 --> 00:14:48,304 on the one hand, 616 00:14:48,346 --> 00:14:50,682 but Jesus was good for you." 617 00:14:51,850 --> 00:14:54,519 [Paul] 618 00:14:51,850 --> 00:14:54,519 How can sinful man 619 00:14:54,561 --> 00:14:56,354 be reconciled 620 00:14:54,561 --> 00:14:56,354 to a just God 621 00:14:56,396 --> 00:15:00,107 whose justice demands 622 00:14:56,396 --> 00:15:00,107 that they be punished? 623 00:15:00,149 --> 00:15:01,735 Do you know what God did 624 00:15:00,149 --> 00:15:01,735 for guilty sinners 625 00:15:01,776 --> 00:15:04,028 so we wouldn't have 626 00:15:01,776 --> 00:15:04,028 to go to hell? Any idea? 627 00:15:04,070 --> 00:15:06,906 [Paul] The answer is found 628 00:15:04,070 --> 00:15:06,906 in the person of Jesus Christ, 629 00:15:06,947 --> 00:15:08,575 the historical person. 630 00:15:08,616 --> 00:15:11,244 God intervening 631 00:15:08,616 --> 00:15:11,244 into human history. 632 00:15:11,285 --> 00:15:14,664 And this Jesus of Nazareth 633 00:15:11,285 --> 00:15:14,664 lived the perfect life 634 00:15:14,706 --> 00:15:16,290 that you and I 635 00:15:14,706 --> 00:15:16,290 could never live-- 636 00:15:16,332 --> 00:15:18,167 have never lived. 637 00:15:18,209 --> 00:15:20,961 And then He goes to a cross. 638 00:15:21,003 --> 00:15:24,173 We owed a debt to God 639 00:15:21,003 --> 00:15:24,173 because of our sin. 640 00:15:24,215 --> 00:15:28,219 And that debt was suffering 641 00:15:24,215 --> 00:15:28,219 eternal punishment. 642 00:15:28,261 --> 00:15:33,015 But on the cross, God Himself, 643 00:15:28,261 --> 00:15:33,015 He took our place. 644 00:15:33,057 --> 00:15:34,517 Bore our sin 645 00:15:34,559 --> 00:15:37,812 and suffered the wrath of God 646 00:15:34,559 --> 00:15:37,812 that we deserve. 647 00:15:37,854 --> 00:15:40,690 He extinguished it. 648 00:15:37,854 --> 00:15:40,690 He put it away. 649 00:15:40,732 --> 00:15:43,484 And on the third day 650 00:15:40,732 --> 00:15:43,484 He rose again from the dead, 651 00:15:43,526 --> 00:15:45,194 then He ascended up into heaven, 652 00:15:45,236 --> 00:15:46,821 and this Jesus, 653 00:15:46,863 --> 00:15:50,157 the son of God, sat down 654 00:15:46,863 --> 00:15:50,157 at the right hand of God. 655 00:15:50,199 --> 00:15:52,452 And now the Bible teaches 656 00:15:52,493 --> 00:15:55,288 that Jesus is the way, 657 00:15:52,493 --> 00:15:55,288 the truth and the life, 658 00:15:55,329 --> 00:15:58,416 that no man comes to the Father 659 00:15:55,329 --> 00:15:58,416 except through Him. 660 00:15:58,458 --> 00:16:00,710 That there is one God 661 00:15:58,458 --> 00:16:00,710 and one mediator 662 00:16:00,752 --> 00:16:04,088 between God and man, 663 00:16:00,752 --> 00:16:04,088 the man Christ Jesus. 664 00:16:04,130 --> 00:16:06,758 And if you'll repent 665 00:16:04,130 --> 00:16:06,758 and trust alone in Jesus 666 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:08,217 as your savior, 667 00:16:08,259 --> 00:16:10,428 God will remit your sins, 668 00:16:08,259 --> 00:16:10,428 dismiss your case, 669 00:16:10,470 --> 00:16:13,139 and grant you everlasting life 670 00:16:10,470 --> 00:16:13,139 as a gift, 671 00:16:13,180 --> 00:16:16,225 not because you're good, 672 00:16:13,180 --> 00:16:16,225 but because He is rich in mercy. 673 00:16:16,267 --> 00:16:18,812 In many ways, 674 00:16:16,267 --> 00:16:18,812 the defining doctrine 675 00:16:18,853 --> 00:16:21,689 of true biblical Christianity 676 00:16:21,731 --> 00:16:27,111 is justification by faith alone 677 00:16:21,731 --> 00:16:27,111 in Christ alone. 678 00:16:27,153 --> 00:16:30,531 Justification is God 679 00:16:27,153 --> 00:16:30,531 declaring us righteous 680 00:16:30,573 --> 00:16:33,075 even though we are guilty 681 00:16:30,573 --> 00:16:33,075 of sin. 682 00:16:33,117 --> 00:16:35,536 We see in Ephesians 2:8-9. 683 00:16:35,578 --> 00:16:38,873 "For it is by grace you have 684 00:16:35,578 --> 00:16:38,873 been saved through faith. 685 00:16:38,915 --> 00:16:41,375 It's not of yourselves, 686 00:16:38,915 --> 00:16:41,375 it's the gift of God, 687 00:16:41,417 --> 00:16:44,253 not of works, 688 00:16:41,417 --> 00:16:44,253 so that no man may boast." 689 00:16:44,295 --> 00:16:46,506 And so this is 690 00:16:44,295 --> 00:16:46,506 the great dividing line 691 00:16:46,547 --> 00:16:48,883 between biblical Christianity 692 00:16:48,925 --> 00:16:52,428 during the Reformation 693 00:16:48,925 --> 00:16:52,428 and the Roman Catholic religion. 694 00:16:52,470 --> 00:16:55,598 The official position 695 00:16:52,470 --> 00:16:55,598 of the Roman Catholic Church 696 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:57,350 on justification 697 00:16:57,391 --> 00:16:59,477 is that they believe 698 00:16:57,391 --> 00:16:59,477 that you are justified 699 00:16:59,519 --> 00:17:01,896 by faith plus works. 700 00:17:01,938 --> 00:17:04,064 In fact, 701 00:17:01,938 --> 00:17:04,064 at the Council of Trent, 702 00:17:04,106 --> 00:17:07,067 which people refer to 703 00:17:04,106 --> 00:17:07,067 as the Counter-Reformation, 704 00:17:07,109 --> 00:17:09,320 they actually issued 705 00:17:07,109 --> 00:17:09,320 an anathema. 706 00:17:09,362 --> 00:17:12,156 If anybody believed 707 00:17:09,362 --> 00:17:12,156 that they are justified 708 00:17:12,198 --> 00:17:13,908 by faith alone, 709 00:17:13,950 --> 00:17:15,869 they are condemned 710 00:17:13,950 --> 00:17:15,869 under the anathema 711 00:17:15,910 --> 00:17:17,370 of the Council of Trent. 712 00:17:17,411 --> 00:17:18,955 [Nate] And so 713 00:17:17,411 --> 00:17:18,955 the Roman Catholic Church 714 00:17:18,997 --> 00:17:22,458 actively was opposing 715 00:17:18,997 --> 00:17:22,458 and cursing those 716 00:17:22,500 --> 00:17:25,294 who were holding 717 00:17:22,500 --> 00:17:25,294 a biblical gospel. 718 00:17:25,336 --> 00:17:27,881 If is often called 719 00:17:25,336 --> 00:17:27,881 the "plus religion," 720 00:17:27,922 --> 00:17:30,884 because Catholicism teaches 721 00:17:27,922 --> 00:17:30,884 that you are saved 722 00:17:30,925 --> 00:17:33,011 by faith plus works, 723 00:17:33,052 --> 00:17:35,095 by grace plus merit, 724 00:17:35,137 --> 00:17:37,473 by Christ plus other mediators, 725 00:17:37,515 --> 00:17:40,977 according to scripture, 726 00:17:37,515 --> 00:17:40,977 plus tradition, 727 00:17:41,019 --> 00:17:44,022 and for the glory of God 728 00:17:41,019 --> 00:17:44,022 as well as the glory of Mary 729 00:17:44,063 --> 00:17:46,065 and other saints. 730 00:17:46,106 --> 00:17:49,443 When you look at the Roman 731 00:17:46,106 --> 00:17:49,443 Catholic plan of salvation, 732 00:17:49,485 --> 00:17:53,072 it is a salvation of works 733 00:17:49,485 --> 00:17:53,072 and sacraments. 734 00:17:53,113 --> 00:17:56,367 In the Roman Catholic plan 735 00:17:53,113 --> 00:17:56,367 of salvation 736 00:17:56,409 --> 00:18:00,371 baptism cleanses an infant 737 00:17:56,409 --> 00:18:00,371 from original sin. 738 00:18:00,413 --> 00:18:03,082 [Mike] And that is the 739 00:18:00,413 --> 00:18:03,082 sacrament of regeneration 740 00:18:03,123 --> 00:18:05,376 as well as justification. 741 00:18:05,418 --> 00:18:08,254 [Nate] That it starts them off 742 00:18:05,418 --> 00:18:08,254 on this plan, on this track. 743 00:18:08,295 --> 00:18:10,048 Along the way, however, 744 00:18:10,089 --> 00:18:11,424 they can commit 745 00:18:10,089 --> 00:18:11,424 these small sins, venial sins, 746 00:18:11,465 --> 00:18:13,509 which plunges them back down. 747 00:18:13,551 --> 00:18:15,970 And heaven forbid 748 00:18:13,551 --> 00:18:15,970 they commit a mortal sin, 749 00:18:16,012 --> 00:18:18,598 which knocks them completely 750 00:18:16,012 --> 00:18:18,598 off the plan of salvation. 751 00:18:18,639 --> 00:18:21,851 And he must now 752 00:18:18,639 --> 00:18:21,851 receive sacraments. 753 00:18:21,893 --> 00:18:24,062 He must confess 754 00:18:21,893 --> 00:18:24,062 his sins to a priest, 755 00:18:24,103 --> 00:18:26,313 which is the sacrament 756 00:18:24,103 --> 00:18:26,313 of penance. 757 00:18:26,355 --> 00:18:31,193 And then he must be rejustified 758 00:18:26,355 --> 00:18:31,193 by doing good works, 759 00:18:31,235 --> 00:18:32,946 by doing penance. 760 00:18:32,987 --> 00:18:35,531 And once he is rejustified, 761 00:18:35,573 --> 00:18:38,284 then he must maintain 762 00:18:35,573 --> 00:18:38,284 his salvation 763 00:18:38,325 --> 00:18:39,660 through sacraments. 764 00:18:39,702 --> 00:18:41,662 And if, in the end, 765 00:18:41,704 --> 00:18:43,247 if they have enough people 766 00:18:41,704 --> 00:18:43,247 praying for them, 767 00:18:43,289 --> 00:18:45,458 and if they do enough time 768 00:18:43,289 --> 00:18:45,458 in purgatory, 769 00:18:45,499 --> 00:18:48,628 they might 770 00:18:45,499 --> 00:18:48,628 possibly get to heaven. 771 00:18:48,669 --> 00:18:49,754 [Mike] 772 00:18:48,669 --> 00:18:49,754 How they get to heaven 773 00:18:49,796 --> 00:18:51,171 is based on what they do 774 00:18:51,213 --> 00:18:53,173 rather than 775 00:18:51,213 --> 00:18:53,173 what Christ has done. 776 00:18:53,215 --> 00:18:54,759 [Nate] But the Bible teaches, 777 00:18:54,801 --> 00:18:57,470 "There is therefore now 778 00:18:54,801 --> 00:18:57,470 no condemnation 779 00:18:57,511 --> 00:18:59,305 for those who are in Christ." 780 00:18:59,346 --> 00:19:01,307 That when you put your faith 781 00:18:59,346 --> 00:19:01,307 in Jesus Christ 782 00:19:01,348 --> 00:19:03,142 the work has been done. 783 00:19:03,183 --> 00:19:05,603 He saves you totally, 784 00:19:03,183 --> 00:19:05,603 completely, perfectly. 785 00:19:05,645 --> 00:19:08,397 And even though, yes, we sin 786 00:19:05,645 --> 00:19:08,397 and can repent, 787 00:19:08,439 --> 00:19:11,609 the sacrifice of Christ 788 00:19:08,439 --> 00:19:11,609 has paid for those sins. 789 00:19:11,651 --> 00:19:13,152 And so there is assurance 790 00:19:13,193 --> 00:19:15,071 that He has saved you, 791 00:19:15,113 --> 00:19:17,031 he has plucked you 792 00:19:15,113 --> 00:19:17,031 out of the world, 793 00:19:17,073 --> 00:19:18,992 you're in the palm of His hand 794 00:19:19,033 --> 00:19:20,910 and nobody can pluck you 795 00:19:19,033 --> 00:19:20,910 out of His hand. 796 00:19:20,952 --> 00:19:23,454 [Mike] And so, 797 00:19:20,952 --> 00:19:23,454 that's why the Reformers 798 00:19:23,496 --> 00:19:24,998 cried the Five Solas, 799 00:19:25,039 --> 00:19:27,458 that we are saved 800 00:19:25,039 --> 00:19:27,458 by grace alone, 801 00:19:27,500 --> 00:19:29,168 through faith alone, 802 00:19:29,209 --> 00:19:30,503 in Christ alone, 803 00:19:30,544 --> 00:19:32,338 according to scripture alone, 804 00:19:32,379 --> 00:19:34,757 all for the glory of God alone. 805 00:19:34,799 --> 00:19:37,510 That message has 806 00:19:34,799 --> 00:19:37,510 always found opposition. 807 00:19:37,551 --> 00:19:40,138 And the Jerusalem Council, 808 00:19:40,179 --> 00:19:42,056 and we read about 809 00:19:40,179 --> 00:19:42,056 in the Book of Acts, 810 00:19:42,098 --> 00:19:46,144 actually addressed 811 00:19:42,098 --> 00:19:46,144 this very same issue. 812 00:19:46,185 --> 00:19:51,607 The rabbis and the Judaizers 813 00:19:46,185 --> 00:19:51,607 were saying to the Christians 814 00:19:51,649 --> 00:19:56,320 that God will accept you 815 00:19:51,649 --> 00:19:56,320 by His grace through faith 816 00:19:56,362 --> 00:20:00,449 and your keeping 817 00:19:56,362 --> 00:20:00,449 of the ceremonial laws. 818 00:20:00,491 --> 00:20:03,494 Being circumcised, 819 00:20:00,491 --> 00:20:03,494 washing your hands, 820 00:20:03,536 --> 00:20:05,204 keeping the food laws. 821 00:20:05,245 --> 00:20:08,207 And the entire church agreed, 822 00:20:08,248 --> 00:20:11,418 as summarized by the apostle 823 00:20:08,248 --> 00:20:11,418 Peter's statement, 824 00:20:11,460 --> 00:20:13,629 that that is not the good news, 825 00:20:13,671 --> 00:20:15,173 that's not the gospel. 826 00:20:15,214 --> 00:20:18,051 Jesus didn't come 827 00:20:15,214 --> 00:20:18,051 to make salvation possible 828 00:20:18,092 --> 00:20:19,426 for those who do their part. 829 00:20:19,468 --> 00:20:21,095 He came to accomplish it 830 00:20:21,137 --> 00:20:24,431 and to give it freely 831 00:20:21,137 --> 00:20:24,431 to all of His people. 832 00:20:24,473 --> 00:20:27,685 The question is, "Well, 833 00:20:24,473 --> 00:20:27,685 how do we know if faith is real 834 00:20:27,727 --> 00:20:30,354 if there is no works?" 835 00:20:27,727 --> 00:20:30,354 Doesn't the Bible say, 836 00:20:30,396 --> 00:20:32,106 'Faith without works is dead'?" 837 00:20:32,148 --> 00:20:34,650 "And so, don't we have 838 00:20:32,148 --> 00:20:34,650 to do works to be saved? 839 00:20:34,692 --> 00:20:37,195 Isn't that the argument 840 00:20:34,692 --> 00:20:37,195 is that we have to be doing?" 841 00:20:37,236 --> 00:20:38,863 But there's two 842 00:20:37,236 --> 00:20:38,863 understandings of that, 843 00:20:38,905 --> 00:20:40,447 and one's biblical, one's not. 844 00:20:40,489 --> 00:20:43,076 So the Roman Catholic 845 00:20:40,489 --> 00:20:43,076 view of salvation, 846 00:20:43,117 --> 00:20:46,579 and really any works-based 847 00:20:43,117 --> 00:20:46,579 system of salvation, 848 00:20:46,620 --> 00:20:48,915 takes works 849 00:20:46,620 --> 00:20:48,915 and puts it at the root, 850 00:20:48,956 --> 00:20:50,708 and says that works 851 00:20:50,750 --> 00:20:53,377 plus your faith in Jesus 852 00:20:50,750 --> 00:20:53,377 is what produces salvation. 853 00:20:53,419 --> 00:20:55,629 But the Bible teaches 854 00:20:53,419 --> 00:20:55,629 that it's not the root, 855 00:20:55,671 --> 00:20:57,173 it's actually the fruit. 856 00:20:57,215 --> 00:21:00,467 That your faith alone in Jesus, 857 00:20:57,215 --> 00:21:00,467 that is what saves. 858 00:21:00,509 --> 00:21:02,595 And then a life 859 00:21:00,509 --> 00:21:02,595 that has been saved, 860 00:21:02,636 --> 00:21:05,305 a sanctified, regenerated heart, 861 00:21:05,347 --> 00:21:06,724 produces fruit-- 862 00:21:06,766 --> 00:21:08,059 the fruit of good works. 863 00:21:08,101 --> 00:21:10,186 And so, you know 864 00:21:08,101 --> 00:21:10,186 a person's been saved 865 00:21:10,228 --> 00:21:11,687 because of their fruit, 866 00:21:11,729 --> 00:21:13,731 but the fruit is not the reason 867 00:21:11,729 --> 00:21:13,731 they're saved. 868 00:21:13,773 --> 00:21:15,066 They're saved by God, 869 00:21:15,108 --> 00:21:17,484 by grace, through faith 870 00:21:15,108 --> 00:21:17,484 in Christ. 871 00:21:17,526 --> 00:21:19,695 You see, the Christian 872 00:21:17,526 --> 00:21:19,695 is the only person, 873 00:21:19,737 --> 00:21:24,450 the true Christian, who can say 874 00:21:19,737 --> 00:21:24,450 that they're going to heaven 875 00:21:24,491 --> 00:21:26,619 without being self-righteous. 876 00:21:26,660 --> 00:21:28,287 Why? 877 00:21:28,328 --> 00:21:30,248 In other religions, 878 00:21:28,328 --> 00:21:30,248 how do you get to heaven? 879 00:21:30,289 --> 00:21:34,710 You get to heaven by being good, 880 00:21:30,289 --> 00:21:34,710 by earning it. 881 00:21:34,752 --> 00:21:36,712 In Christianity, 882 00:21:36,754 --> 00:21:38,422 you're not reconciled to God 883 00:21:38,464 --> 00:21:40,466 through your own virtue 884 00:21:38,464 --> 00:21:40,466 or merit, 885 00:21:40,507 --> 00:21:42,509 but you're reconciled to God 886 00:21:42,551 --> 00:21:45,471 through the virtue 887 00:21:42,551 --> 00:21:45,471 and merit of His Son. 888 00:21:45,512 --> 00:21:46,513 [Ray] Does that make sense? 889 00:21:46,555 --> 00:21:48,015 It makes absolute sense. 890 00:21:48,057 --> 00:21:49,267 [Ray] So, Augusto, 891 00:21:48,057 --> 00:21:49,267 if you were to die today, 892 00:21:49,308 --> 00:21:51,185 -how old are you? 893 00:21:49,308 --> 00:21:51,185 -Nineteen. 894 00:21:51,227 --> 00:21:53,395 If you were to die at 19 895 00:21:51,227 --> 00:21:53,395 and God gave you justice, 896 00:21:53,437 --> 00:21:55,522 you'd end up in hell, 897 00:21:53,437 --> 00:21:55,522 there are two things 898 00:21:55,564 --> 00:21:56,899 you have to do to be saved, 899 00:21:56,941 --> 00:21:58,651 you've got to repent 900 00:21:56,941 --> 00:21:58,651 and trust in Christ. 901 00:21:58,692 --> 00:22:00,527 When are you gonna do that? 902 00:22:01,821 --> 00:22:03,405 Almost immediately? 903 00:22:03,447 --> 00:22:04,615 [Ray] You're serious? 904 00:22:04,657 --> 00:22:06,408 Yeah, I'm serious. 905 00:22:07,201 --> 00:22:08,953 [Dr. Horton] Euangelion, 906 00:22:08,995 --> 00:22:12,748 the Greek word "gospel," 907 00:22:08,995 --> 00:22:12,748 is taken from the good news 908 00:22:12,790 --> 00:22:15,459 that a runner would bring 909 00:22:12,790 --> 00:22:15,459 as a messenger, 910 00:22:15,501 --> 00:22:17,586 coming to announce 911 00:22:15,501 --> 00:22:17,586 in the capital 912 00:22:17,628 --> 00:22:20,631 that victory had been achieved 913 00:22:17,628 --> 00:22:20,631 on the battlefield. 914 00:22:20,673 --> 00:22:24,343 And everyone would cheer, 915 00:22:20,673 --> 00:22:24,343 it would transform the lives 916 00:22:24,384 --> 00:22:26,220 of everybody in 917 00:22:24,384 --> 00:22:26,220 the city to know 918 00:22:26,262 --> 00:22:29,307 that they hadn't lost the war, 919 00:22:26,262 --> 00:22:29,307 they had won the war. 920 00:22:29,347 --> 00:22:31,391 But of course, they weren't 921 00:22:29,347 --> 00:22:31,391 the ones out there in... 922 00:22:31,433 --> 00:22:33,144 in--in the trenches. 923 00:22:33,186 --> 00:22:36,230 In the same way Jesus says, 924 00:22:36,272 --> 00:22:37,898 "I have accomplished salvation." 925 00:22:37,940 --> 00:22:40,400 Not, "Come help me 926 00:22:37,940 --> 00:22:40,400 save the world." 927 00:22:40,442 --> 00:22:43,361 But "I have accomplished this." 928 00:22:43,403 --> 00:22:46,532 The law, basically, is "do." 929 00:22:46,573 --> 00:22:50,368 The gospel, basically, is done. 930 00:22:50,410 --> 00:22:52,538 The gospel isn't 931 00:22:50,410 --> 00:22:52,538 "What would Jesus do? 932 00:22:52,579 --> 00:22:53,873 Now go and do that." 933 00:22:53,914 --> 00:22:56,542 The gospel is, 934 00:22:53,914 --> 00:22:56,542 "What has Jesus done? 935 00:22:56,583 --> 00:22:58,127 Now believe that." 936 00:22:58,169 --> 00:23:00,671 This distinction between 937 00:22:58,169 --> 00:23:00,671 the law and the gospel 938 00:23:00,713 --> 00:23:04,424 really is the most important 939 00:23:00,713 --> 00:23:04,424 thing to remember. 940 00:23:04,466 --> 00:23:07,178 And it's one of the things 941 00:23:04,466 --> 00:23:07,178 that we're forgetting. 942 00:23:07,220 --> 00:23:10,388 [Dr. Chapell] That pattern 943 00:23:07,220 --> 00:23:10,388 of God always making sure 944 00:23:10,430 --> 00:23:14,894 that we know that relationship 945 00:23:10,430 --> 00:23:14,894 comes before obedience, 946 00:23:14,935 --> 00:23:17,188 that we do not have 947 00:23:14,935 --> 00:23:17,188 a relationship with Him 948 00:23:17,230 --> 00:23:18,731 because we obey; 949 00:23:18,772 --> 00:23:21,399 we obey because He has made 950 00:23:18,772 --> 00:23:21,399 a relationship with us. 951 00:23:21,441 --> 00:23:23,986 That is made clear over 952 00:23:21,441 --> 00:23:23,986 and over again in the Bible. 953 00:23:24,028 --> 00:23:26,446 God says before 954 00:23:24,028 --> 00:23:26,446 He ever tells His people 955 00:23:26,488 --> 00:23:28,241 what the commands are, 956 00:23:28,282 --> 00:23:31,409 "I'm the God who brought you 957 00:23:28,282 --> 00:23:31,409 out of the land of Egypt, 958 00:23:31,451 --> 00:23:34,955 out of the house of bondage. 959 00:23:31,451 --> 00:23:34,955 Now obey me." 960 00:23:34,997 --> 00:23:37,333 Now, it's critical we understand 961 00:23:34,997 --> 00:23:37,333 He didn't say, 962 00:23:37,375 --> 00:23:39,960 "You obey me, 963 00:23:37,375 --> 00:23:39,960 and I'll let you out of Egypt." 964 00:23:40,002 --> 00:23:42,629 No, He said, 965 00:23:40,002 --> 00:23:42,629 "I have redeemed you. 966 00:23:42,671 --> 00:23:45,299 Now here's the safe path 967 00:23:42,671 --> 00:23:45,299 for you to walk on." 968 00:23:45,341 --> 00:23:48,386 It's the order not just 969 00:23:45,341 --> 00:23:48,386 of the Old Testament passages. 970 00:23:48,426 --> 00:23:50,428 I mean, all the epistles 971 00:23:48,426 --> 00:23:50,428 of the New Testament 972 00:23:50,470 --> 00:23:52,806 basically follow 973 00:23:50,470 --> 00:23:52,806 that same order. 974 00:23:52,848 --> 00:23:55,601 In general, the first half 975 00:23:52,848 --> 00:23:55,601 of the epistles 976 00:23:55,642 --> 00:23:58,229 of Paul, of John, of Peter, 977 00:23:58,271 --> 00:24:00,564 kind of say, "Here's what 978 00:23:58,271 --> 00:24:00,564 God has done in Christ. 979 00:24:00,606 --> 00:24:02,816 Here's how He has saved you." 980 00:24:02,858 --> 00:24:04,526 The last half of the epistles, 981 00:24:04,568 --> 00:24:07,321 "Now here's what you 982 00:24:04,568 --> 00:24:07,321 should do in response." 983 00:24:07,363 --> 00:24:11,575 The moral commands 984 00:24:07,363 --> 00:24:11,575 that we should obey 985 00:24:11,617 --> 00:24:14,787 are like the railroad tracks 986 00:24:11,617 --> 00:24:14,787 for the train. 987 00:24:14,828 --> 00:24:16,414 That as the train is going, 988 00:24:16,454 --> 00:24:18,291 this is the way that the train 989 00:24:16,454 --> 00:24:18,291 is supposed to go. 990 00:24:18,332 --> 00:24:20,793 But the gospel 991 00:24:18,332 --> 00:24:20,793 is the engine and the fuel 992 00:24:20,834 --> 00:24:23,503 that makes the train 993 00:24:20,834 --> 00:24:23,503 actually move. 994 00:24:23,545 --> 00:24:25,589 And so it does 995 00:24:23,545 --> 00:24:25,589 a Christian no good, 996 00:24:25,631 --> 00:24:27,425 and it does 997 00:24:25,631 --> 00:24:27,425 a non-Christian no good 998 00:24:27,465 --> 00:24:30,344 to just continue telling them, 999 00:24:27,465 --> 00:24:30,344 "Hey, here's the tracks, 1000 00:24:30,386 --> 00:24:31,887 now go." 1001 00:24:31,929 --> 00:24:33,513 But if they have no fuel, 1002 00:24:31,929 --> 00:24:33,513 if they have no engine, 1003 00:24:33,555 --> 00:24:35,891 they're just gonna be 1004 00:24:33,555 --> 00:24:35,891 a train stuck. 1005 00:24:35,933 --> 00:24:38,560 And there's a lot of Christians, 1006 00:24:35,933 --> 00:24:38,560 I think, today that are just 1007 00:24:38,602 --> 00:24:42,898 trains sitting on tracks 1008 00:24:38,602 --> 00:24:42,898 being told, "Go forward," 1009 00:24:42,940 --> 00:24:46,152 but they're not being given 1010 00:24:42,940 --> 00:24:46,152 an engine or any fuel 1011 00:24:46,193 --> 00:24:48,486 to move them forward. 1012 00:24:48,528 --> 00:24:50,530 [Dr. Kim] There are some pastors 1013 00:24:48,528 --> 00:24:50,530 out there that assume, 1014 00:24:50,572 --> 00:24:53,033 I think, incorrectly, 1015 00:24:50,572 --> 00:24:53,033 but understandably, 1016 00:24:53,075 --> 00:24:55,619 that everyone in their church 1017 00:24:53,075 --> 00:24:55,619 understands the gospel. 1018 00:24:55,661 --> 00:24:57,830 [Paul] I remember years ago, 1019 00:24:57,871 --> 00:25:02,001 I was asked to address 1020 00:24:57,871 --> 00:25:02,001 a group, a large group, 1021 00:25:02,042 --> 00:25:05,921 but they told me that 1022 00:25:02,042 --> 00:25:05,921 they were mainly Christians. 1023 00:25:05,963 --> 00:25:07,714 And they said, "Well, what 1024 00:25:05,963 --> 00:25:07,714 are you gonna preach on?" 1025 00:25:07,756 --> 00:25:10,259 And I said, "Well, I thought 1026 00:25:07,756 --> 00:25:10,259 about preaching on the gospel." 1027 00:25:10,301 --> 00:25:12,845 And they said, 1028 00:25:10,301 --> 00:25:12,845 "But we just told you 1029 00:25:12,886 --> 00:25:14,596 that these-- 1030 00:25:12,886 --> 00:25:14,596 most of these people, 1031 00:25:14,638 --> 00:25:17,683 we know them as very devout 1032 00:25:14,638 --> 00:25:17,683 and sincere Christians." 1033 00:25:17,724 --> 00:25:21,812 And I said, "Well, first of all, 1034 00:25:17,724 --> 00:25:21,812 I appreciate that, 1035 00:25:21,854 --> 00:25:23,772 but I can never assume 1036 00:25:23,814 --> 00:25:26,524 that everyone there 1037 00:25:23,814 --> 00:25:26,524 is truly Christian 1038 00:25:26,566 --> 00:25:29,487 or has come to a biblical 1039 00:25:26,566 --> 00:25:29,487 understanding of the gospel. 1040 00:25:29,527 --> 00:25:30,821 That's number one. 1041 00:25:30,863 --> 00:25:32,156 Number two, 1042 00:25:32,198 --> 00:25:35,993 the gospel is not just 1043 00:25:32,198 --> 00:25:35,993 for lost people. 1044 00:25:36,035 --> 00:25:38,496 The gospel is for Christians." 1045 00:25:38,536 --> 00:25:41,457 [Seth] God, being three in one, 1046 00:25:41,499 --> 00:25:44,335 eternally existing, 1047 00:25:41,499 --> 00:25:44,335 Father, Son, Holy Spirit, 1048 00:25:44,377 --> 00:25:45,919 in His great love, He... 1049 00:25:45,961 --> 00:25:48,630 He made creation 1050 00:25:45,961 --> 00:25:48,630 to share His love with. 1051 00:25:48,672 --> 00:25:51,509 Not that He needed to, 1052 00:25:48,672 --> 00:25:51,509 but He wanted to. 1053 00:25:51,549 --> 00:25:53,927 And in that, He created us. 1054 00:25:53,969 --> 00:25:57,390 And in creating us, 1055 00:25:53,969 --> 00:25:57,390 we fell into sin. 1056 00:25:57,431 --> 00:25:59,183 And sin is something 1057 00:25:57,431 --> 00:25:59,183 that separates us from God. 1058 00:25:59,225 --> 00:26:00,684 It's something 1059 00:25:59,225 --> 00:26:00,684 that is not of God. 1060 00:26:00,726 --> 00:26:02,395 It's something 1061 00:26:00,726 --> 00:26:02,395 that's against God. 1062 00:26:02,436 --> 00:26:06,065 [Jared] On Saturday nights, 1063 00:26:02,436 --> 00:26:06,065 during the summer, 1064 00:26:06,106 --> 00:26:08,650 we host worship nights 1065 00:26:06,106 --> 00:26:08,650 at our house 1066 00:26:08,692 --> 00:26:10,319 usually starting at about 6:30. 1067 00:26:10,361 --> 00:26:11,737 You know, we'll play basketball, 1068 00:26:11,778 --> 00:26:13,571 we'll throw the football, 1069 00:26:11,778 --> 00:26:13,571 frisbee around, 1070 00:26:13,613 --> 00:26:16,200 and we'll just talk 1071 00:26:13,613 --> 00:26:16,200 and hang out outside. 1072 00:26:16,242 --> 00:26:18,911 And then we'll gather 1073 00:26:16,242 --> 00:26:18,911 in the living room, 1074 00:26:18,952 --> 00:26:21,330 and there will be 1075 00:26:18,952 --> 00:26:21,330 a time of worship. 1076 00:26:21,372 --> 00:26:26,168 [all singing] 1077 00:26:21,372 --> 00:26:26,168 ♪ Jesus paid it all ♪ 1078 00:26:26,210 --> 00:26:31,131 ♪ All to Him I owe ♪ 1079 00:26:31,173 --> 00:26:34,134 [Chris] In our community, 1080 00:26:31,173 --> 00:26:34,134 we've made it a practice that 1081 00:26:34,176 --> 00:26:36,178 every week we try 1082 00:26:34,176 --> 00:26:36,178 to have meetings 1083 00:26:36,220 --> 00:26:38,722 where the gospel is at least 1084 00:26:36,220 --> 00:26:38,722 presented one time. 1085 00:26:38,764 --> 00:26:41,559 [Seth] And Jesus 1086 00:26:38,764 --> 00:26:41,559 being fully man, fully God, 1087 00:26:41,599 --> 00:26:43,519 walked on this Earth 1088 00:26:41,599 --> 00:26:43,519 and lived a life 1089 00:26:43,561 --> 00:26:45,438 without sin, without blemish, 1090 00:26:45,479 --> 00:26:48,732 and lived the life 1091 00:26:45,479 --> 00:26:48,732 that we were called to live, 1092 00:26:48,774 --> 00:26:50,859 and lived the life 1093 00:26:48,774 --> 00:26:50,859 that we should have lived. 1094 00:26:50,901 --> 00:26:54,154 And in our place, He died 1095 00:26:50,901 --> 00:26:54,154 the death that we deserve. 1096 00:26:54,196 --> 00:26:56,782 Three days later, He rose again 1097 00:26:54,196 --> 00:26:56,782 after that death on the cross. 1098 00:26:56,823 --> 00:26:58,616 And one of the things 1099 00:26:56,823 --> 00:26:58,616 we do stress is that 1100 00:26:58,658 --> 00:27:01,328 even believers need it, 1101 00:26:58,658 --> 00:27:01,328 even people that hear it 1102 00:27:01,370 --> 00:27:05,332 a hundred times a month 1103 00:27:01,370 --> 00:27:05,332 still need that. 1104 00:27:05,374 --> 00:27:07,709 And we do have hope, 1105 00:27:05,374 --> 00:27:07,709 because any kind of judgment 1106 00:27:07,751 --> 00:27:10,921 from that sin has been 1107 00:27:07,751 --> 00:27:10,921 dealt with by God... 1108 00:27:10,963 --> 00:27:12,923 [Sean] 1109 00:27:10,963 --> 00:27:12,923 The gospel is not something 1110 00:27:12,965 --> 00:27:14,508 that you graduate from. 1111 00:27:14,550 --> 00:27:16,802 It's not something that 1112 00:27:14,550 --> 00:27:16,802 you ever move on from. 1113 00:27:16,843 --> 00:27:18,429 The gospel is central. 1114 00:27:18,471 --> 00:27:20,889 We're constantly prone 1115 00:27:18,471 --> 00:27:20,889 to forget the gospel. 1116 00:27:20,931 --> 00:27:23,892 We're prone to forget 1117 00:27:20,931 --> 00:27:23,892 who He is, who we're not, 1118 00:27:23,934 --> 00:27:25,769 what He did for us. 1119 00:27:25,811 --> 00:27:26,979 [Dr. Horton] 1120 00:27:25,811 --> 00:27:26,979 Preaching the gospel 1121 00:27:27,020 --> 00:27:28,397 all the time, every week, 1122 00:27:28,439 --> 00:27:30,732 means that from Genesis 1123 00:27:28,439 --> 00:27:30,732 to Revelation, 1124 00:27:30,774 --> 00:27:34,612 you realize the whole Bible 1125 00:27:30,774 --> 00:27:34,612 is one unfolding story 1126 00:27:34,652 --> 00:27:37,197 of God's love and 1127 00:27:34,652 --> 00:27:37,197 saving grace and mercy 1128 00:27:37,239 --> 00:27:39,283 towards sinners in Jesus Christ. 1129 00:27:39,325 --> 00:27:41,868 Jesus said in Matthew 5 1130 00:27:41,910 --> 00:27:43,996 that the whole Bible 1131 00:27:41,910 --> 00:27:43,996 is about Him. 1132 00:27:44,037 --> 00:27:47,082 [Dr. Kim] And Luke records 1133 00:27:44,037 --> 00:27:47,082 for us that Jesus taught them 1134 00:27:47,124 --> 00:27:50,544 all the things 1135 00:27:47,124 --> 00:27:50,544 concerning Himself 1136 00:27:50,586 --> 00:27:53,005 from the law, the prophets, 1137 00:27:50,586 --> 00:27:53,005 and the writings, 1138 00:27:53,046 --> 00:27:54,840 which were the threefold way 1139 00:27:53,046 --> 00:27:54,840 of describing 1140 00:27:54,881 --> 00:27:57,343 the whole Hebrew Bible 1141 00:27:54,881 --> 00:27:57,343 of the Old Testament. 1142 00:27:57,384 --> 00:27:59,178 Now either He was 1143 00:27:57,384 --> 00:27:59,178 a megalomaniac, 1144 00:27:59,219 --> 00:28:01,013 or He is who He said He was, 1145 00:28:01,054 --> 00:28:03,474 and the whole Bible 1146 00:28:01,054 --> 00:28:03,474 is about Jesus. 1147 00:28:03,516 --> 00:28:05,476 Well, I don't know about you, 1148 00:28:03,516 --> 00:28:05,476 but if I'm a follower of Jesus, 1149 00:28:05,518 --> 00:28:07,102 I wanna follow 1150 00:28:05,518 --> 00:28:07,102 Jesus' understanding 1151 00:28:07,144 --> 00:28:08,354 of the Old Testament. 1152 00:28:08,395 --> 00:28:12,483 Therefore, 1153 00:28:08,395 --> 00:28:12,483 if we explain any text 1154 00:28:12,525 --> 00:28:14,734 in isolation from Him, 1155 00:28:14,776 --> 00:28:19,823 we fail to say the very thing 1156 00:28:14,776 --> 00:28:19,823 that He said it's about. 1157 00:28:19,865 --> 00:28:22,618 He said it's about Him. 1158 00:28:22,660 --> 00:28:26,246 If you're preaching about Daniel 1159 00:28:22,660 --> 00:28:26,246 and it's "Dare to be a Daniel," 1160 00:28:26,288 --> 00:28:27,998 it's not about Jesus. 1161 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:29,667 If you're preaching 1162 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:29,667 the book of Revelation, 1163 00:28:29,707 --> 00:28:32,252 and it's about Israel 1164 00:28:29,707 --> 00:28:32,252 and Russia, 1165 00:28:32,294 --> 00:28:34,129 then it's not about Jesus. 1166 00:28:34,171 --> 00:28:36,256 Though Jesus isn't the content 1167 00:28:34,171 --> 00:28:36,256 of the whole Bible, 1168 00:28:36,298 --> 00:28:38,592 He's the center of it all. 1169 00:28:38,634 --> 00:28:40,260 In other words, 1170 00:28:40,302 --> 00:28:42,888 not every story, every little 1171 00:28:40,302 --> 00:28:42,888 thing is about Jesus, 1172 00:28:42,929 --> 00:28:45,765 or can be an analogy for Him. 1173 00:28:45,807 --> 00:28:48,935 And yet, it all points 1174 00:28:45,807 --> 00:28:48,935 towards Him and His work. 1175 00:28:48,977 --> 00:28:50,521 He's the pinnacle. 1176 00:28:50,563 --> 00:28:51,980 [Mark] 1177 00:28:50,563 --> 00:28:51,980 So the message of the Bible 1178 00:28:52,022 --> 00:28:54,941 is that God will save 1179 00:28:52,022 --> 00:28:54,941 His people. 1180 00:28:54,983 --> 00:28:58,945 So any point you drop 1181 00:28:54,983 --> 00:28:58,945 into Habakkuk or Second Timothy, 1182 00:28:58,987 --> 00:29:02,782 you know, any point you drop 1183 00:28:58,987 --> 00:29:02,782 into Isaiah or Deuteronomy, 1184 00:29:02,824 --> 00:29:06,870 it's gonna be connected somehow 1185 00:29:02,824 --> 00:29:06,870 to this main trunk road 1186 00:29:06,912 --> 00:29:10,332 of the good news of what God 1187 00:29:06,912 --> 00:29:10,332 is doing in our world. 1188 00:29:10,374 --> 00:29:12,918 [Phill] Whether you start 1189 00:29:10,374 --> 00:29:12,918 in Genesis 3, 1190 00:29:12,959 --> 00:29:15,254 and you talk about God 1191 00:29:12,959 --> 00:29:15,254 making a promise 1192 00:29:15,295 --> 00:29:18,507 that he would crush the serpent 1193 00:29:15,295 --> 00:29:18,507 through the seed of the woman, 1194 00:29:18,549 --> 00:29:20,759 well, what's the rest 1195 00:29:18,549 --> 00:29:20,759 of the book of Genesis? 1196 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:24,388 It's the story of that seed, 1197 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:24,388 through the woman. 1198 00:29:24,430 --> 00:29:27,224 And that's why so many people 1199 00:29:24,430 --> 00:29:27,224 get bogged down by genealogies. 1200 00:29:27,266 --> 00:29:29,142 And they're like, "What 1201 00:29:27,266 --> 00:29:29,142 are these genealogies about?" 1202 00:29:29,184 --> 00:29:30,686 That's why 1203 00:29:29,184 --> 00:29:30,686 the New Testament opens 1204 00:29:30,728 --> 00:29:33,355 with a genealogy 1205 00:29:30,728 --> 00:29:33,355 and showing you 1206 00:29:33,397 --> 00:29:35,815 that the seed has come 1207 00:29:33,397 --> 00:29:35,815 in the person of Jesus. 1208 00:29:35,857 --> 00:29:37,192 And so if you can't 1209 00:29:35,857 --> 00:29:37,192 see the cross 1210 00:29:37,234 --> 00:29:39,194 in the story of Joseph 1211 00:29:37,234 --> 00:29:39,194 telling you, 1212 00:29:39,236 --> 00:29:41,196 "What you meant for evil, 1213 00:29:39,236 --> 00:29:41,196 God meant for good," 1214 00:29:41,238 --> 00:29:44,575 I mean, that's the cross 1215 00:29:41,238 --> 00:29:44,575 right there in a metaphor, 1216 00:29:44,617 --> 00:29:48,036 well then, you're really missing 1217 00:29:44,617 --> 00:29:48,036 the whole unity of the Bible. 1218 00:29:48,078 --> 00:29:50,080 And I think that's probably, 1219 00:29:48,078 --> 00:29:50,080 if you wanted to put it, 1220 00:29:50,122 --> 00:29:52,708 what we're denying, 1221 00:29:50,122 --> 00:29:52,708 what's one of our problems, 1222 00:29:52,750 --> 00:29:54,251 is that we're missing 1223 00:29:52,750 --> 00:29:54,251 that the Bible 1224 00:29:54,293 --> 00:29:55,628 was written by one author, 1225 00:29:55,669 --> 00:29:57,129 and that therefore, the author 1226 00:29:57,170 --> 00:29:59,172 has a unified story 1227 00:29:57,170 --> 00:29:59,172 that He's telling. 1228 00:29:59,214 --> 00:30:00,674 Even though there's 1229 00:29:59,214 --> 00:30:00,674 different human authors, 1230 00:30:00,716 --> 00:30:02,593 they're all inspired 1231 00:30:00,716 --> 00:30:02,593 by the Holy Spirit. 1232 00:30:02,635 --> 00:30:07,306 God is not a supporting actor 1233 00:30:02,635 --> 00:30:07,306 in my life movie. 1234 00:30:07,347 --> 00:30:10,559 The Bible's not about you. 1235 00:30:10,601 --> 00:30:14,104 I have been cast as a player 1236 00:30:14,146 --> 00:30:17,483 in His unfolding story 1237 00:30:14,146 --> 00:30:17,483 of redemption. 1238 00:30:17,524 --> 00:30:19,610 And we've got that 1239 00:30:17,524 --> 00:30:19,610 reversed today. 1240 00:30:19,652 --> 00:30:22,613 Here's what-- 1241 00:30:19,652 --> 00:30:22,613 You'll keep infusing yourself 1242 00:30:22,655 --> 00:30:25,741 into the stories of the Bible 1243 00:30:22,655 --> 00:30:25,741 like you're the hero. 1244 00:30:25,783 --> 00:30:27,409 And so a way 1245 00:30:25,783 --> 00:30:27,409 of reading the Bible 1246 00:30:27,451 --> 00:30:30,870 that always makes man the hero 1247 00:30:30,912 --> 00:30:34,416 and not the acts 1248 00:30:30,912 --> 00:30:34,416 of God the hero, 1249 00:30:34,458 --> 00:30:36,960 I think if you mess that up, 1250 00:30:37,002 --> 00:30:39,963 then you're reading the Bible 1251 00:30:37,002 --> 00:30:39,963 entirely wrong. 1252 00:30:40,005 --> 00:30:43,049 Because the Bible wants 1253 00:30:40,005 --> 00:30:43,049 to consistently get your eyes 1254 00:30:43,091 --> 00:30:46,136 off of you and onto 1255 00:30:43,091 --> 00:30:46,136 a God who is able. 1256 00:30:46,178 --> 00:30:49,431 So it's not you that are able, 1257 00:30:46,178 --> 00:30:49,431 it's God that's able. 1258 00:30:49,473 --> 00:30:51,308 And so, I think David 1259 00:30:49,473 --> 00:30:51,308 and Goliath, 1260 00:30:51,350 --> 00:30:53,393 you're right, is just 1261 00:30:51,350 --> 00:30:53,393 a perfect story for it. 1262 00:30:53,435 --> 00:30:56,062 That anytime you hear 1263 00:30:53,435 --> 00:30:56,062 the David and Goliath story, 1264 00:30:56,104 --> 00:30:58,273 you're hearing about 1265 00:30:56,104 --> 00:30:58,273 how you're David. 1266 00:30:58,315 --> 00:31:01,109 In order for David to become 1267 00:30:58,315 --> 00:31:01,109 David, he needed Saul. 1268 00:31:01,151 --> 00:31:04,863 Stop despising Saul. 1269 00:31:01,151 --> 00:31:04,863 You need Saul. 1270 00:31:04,904 --> 00:31:06,948 You need people 1271 00:31:04,904 --> 00:31:06,948 to hate on you, 1272 00:31:06,990 --> 00:31:08,617 you need people to tear you up. 1273 00:31:08,659 --> 00:31:09,785 Thank God for Saul, 1274 00:31:09,827 --> 00:31:11,911 because if you got a Saul, 1275 00:31:11,953 --> 00:31:14,039 -that makes you... 1276 00:31:11,953 --> 00:31:14,039 -[woman] David! 1277 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,082 ...David. 1278 00:31:16,124 --> 00:31:17,710 I wanna be straight. I love you 1279 00:31:16,124 --> 00:31:17,710 enough to be straight. 1280 00:31:17,751 --> 00:31:19,628 You're not David! 1281 00:31:19,670 --> 00:31:21,880 [Matt] So I'm David, 1282 00:31:21,921 --> 00:31:24,132 and the Goliath is my debt, 1283 00:31:24,174 --> 00:31:26,134 or it's my difficult marriage, 1284 00:31:26,176 --> 00:31:28,261 or it's my boss at work. 1285 00:31:28,303 --> 00:31:31,473 We're gonna keep our distance 1286 00:31:28,303 --> 00:31:31,473 from our enemy 1287 00:31:31,515 --> 00:31:33,433 and sling our stones 1288 00:31:33,475 --> 00:31:36,936 until every Goliath 1289 00:31:33,475 --> 00:31:36,936 falls down in our life! 1290 00:31:36,978 --> 00:31:38,856 I'm gonna grab 1291 00:31:36,978 --> 00:31:38,856 the stone of faith, 1292 00:31:38,897 --> 00:31:41,692 and I'm gonna sling it at my 1293 00:31:38,897 --> 00:31:41,692 giant of this boss at work, 1294 00:31:41,734 --> 00:31:43,569 and I'm gonna slay him, 1295 00:31:41,734 --> 00:31:43,569 I'm gonna hold up his head. 1296 00:31:43,610 --> 00:31:45,487 You're gonna defeat that giant. 1297 00:31:45,529 --> 00:31:47,740 Yes, that obstacle is big, 1298 00:31:47,781 --> 00:31:50,116 but you have greatness in you. 1299 00:31:50,158 --> 00:31:52,285 And that would be 1300 00:31:50,158 --> 00:31:52,285 a very narcissistic way 1301 00:31:52,327 --> 00:31:54,079 to read the Bible. 1302 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:55,955 But in a Christ-centered 1303 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:55,955 hermeneutic, 1304 00:31:55,997 --> 00:31:57,624 we're gonna approach 1305 00:31:55,997 --> 00:31:57,624 the Bible and go, 1306 00:31:57,666 --> 00:32:00,544 "Okay, what's going on 1307 00:31:57,666 --> 00:32:00,544 in this very true story?" 1308 00:32:00,586 --> 00:32:02,421 It appears here that 1309 00:32:02,462 --> 00:32:05,090 there's something 1310 00:32:02,462 --> 00:32:05,090 that is terrifying 1311 00:32:05,131 --> 00:32:06,717 and that on the surface 1312 00:32:06,759 --> 00:32:08,427 it looks like 1313 00:32:06,759 --> 00:32:08,427 it cannot be killed. 1314 00:32:08,468 --> 00:32:13,891 And yet, it's overcome 1315 00:32:08,468 --> 00:32:13,891 by this man, 1316 00:32:13,932 --> 00:32:17,102 who by faith, killed 1317 00:32:13,932 --> 00:32:17,102 what couldn't be killed. 1318 00:32:17,143 --> 00:32:19,271 And now we're on 1319 00:32:17,143 --> 00:32:19,271 to a thread, right? 1320 00:32:19,312 --> 00:32:23,776 Like, who-- What's more 1321 00:32:19,312 --> 00:32:23,776 undefeatable than sin and death? 1322 00:32:23,817 --> 00:32:28,864 What David was doing 1323 00:32:23,817 --> 00:32:28,864 was enacting the justice of God 1324 00:32:28,906 --> 00:32:30,783 on the enemies of God 1325 00:32:30,824 --> 00:32:32,743 for the victory and salvation 1326 00:32:30,824 --> 00:32:32,743 of God's people, 1327 00:32:32,785 --> 00:32:35,954 who did absolutely nothing 1328 00:32:32,785 --> 00:32:35,954 but be afraid and terrified 1329 00:32:35,995 --> 00:32:37,623 to approach the enemies of God. 1330 00:32:37,664 --> 00:32:39,458 You know who conquers 1331 00:32:37,664 --> 00:32:39,458 our giants? 1332 00:32:39,499 --> 00:32:41,042 Christ conquers our giants. 1333 00:32:41,084 --> 00:32:42,836 It's not me that 1334 00:32:41,084 --> 00:32:42,836 conquers my giants. 1335 00:32:42,878 --> 00:32:46,423 Like the great giant 1336 00:32:42,878 --> 00:32:46,423 of my life, sin and death, 1337 00:32:46,465 --> 00:32:48,926 cannot be conquered by me 1338 00:32:48,967 --> 00:32:51,052 picking up a stone of faith 1339 00:32:48,967 --> 00:32:51,052 and throwing it, 1340 00:32:51,094 --> 00:32:53,889 but by the finished work 1341 00:32:51,094 --> 00:32:53,889 of Christ, who... 1342 00:32:53,931 --> 00:32:56,809 conquered death 1343 00:32:53,931 --> 00:32:56,809 with a single shot. 1344 00:32:56,850 --> 00:32:58,811 [Dr. Kim] David was one 1345 00:32:56,850 --> 00:32:58,811 of the men in the Bible 1346 00:32:58,852 --> 00:33:02,272 that--that God said, "He was 1347 00:32:58,852 --> 00:33:02,272 a man after my own heart." 1348 00:33:02,314 --> 00:33:06,109 What a tremendous way 1349 00:33:02,314 --> 00:33:06,109 of describing King David. 1350 00:33:06,151 --> 00:33:09,529 Yet here is also a man 1351 00:33:06,151 --> 00:33:09,529 who committed murder 1352 00:33:09,571 --> 00:33:12,324 so that he can sleep 1353 00:33:09,571 --> 00:33:12,324 with that man's wife. 1354 00:33:12,365 --> 00:33:14,785 He's a murderer. 1355 00:33:12,365 --> 00:33:14,785 He's an adulterer. 1356 00:33:14,827 --> 00:33:16,954 [J.D.] Abraham, the father 1357 00:33:14,827 --> 00:33:16,954 of our faith, 1358 00:33:16,995 --> 00:33:18,622 we always, you know, say, 1359 00:33:18,664 --> 00:33:21,082 Abraham's a guy that lied, 1360 00:33:18,664 --> 00:33:21,082 threw his wife under the bus 1361 00:33:21,124 --> 00:33:22,793 not once, but twice. 1362 00:33:22,835 --> 00:33:25,044 I mean, this is not a husband 1363 00:33:22,835 --> 00:33:25,044 that you wanna emulate. 1364 00:33:25,086 --> 00:33:26,964 Do you see that the Bible 1365 00:33:25,086 --> 00:33:26,964 takes care 1366 00:33:27,005 --> 00:33:31,176 to tar virtually every 1367 00:33:27,005 --> 00:33:31,176 biblical figure but one? 1368 00:33:31,217 --> 00:33:34,346 [congregation laughs] 1369 00:33:34,387 --> 00:33:36,807 It's almost important to 1370 00:33:34,387 --> 00:33:36,807 remember that the Old Testament 1371 00:33:36,849 --> 00:33:40,352 is an Eastern book 1372 00:33:36,849 --> 00:33:40,352 more than it is a Western book. 1373 00:33:40,393 --> 00:33:44,147 It's not just dealing linear, 1374 00:33:40,393 --> 00:33:44,147 going A, B, C, D, 1375 00:33:44,189 --> 00:33:46,024 rather, who Christ is, 1376 00:33:46,065 --> 00:33:48,360 what He must do, 1377 00:33:46,065 --> 00:33:48,360 is being defined 1378 00:33:48,401 --> 00:33:51,363 by what He is not 1379 00:33:48,401 --> 00:33:51,363 in the Old Testament. 1380 00:33:51,404 --> 00:33:54,032 And, you know, you take a 1381 00:33:51,404 --> 00:33:54,032 figure like Samson in the Bible. 1382 00:33:54,073 --> 00:33:55,993 You know, 1383 00:33:54,073 --> 00:33:55,993 there was a man who had 1384 00:33:56,034 --> 00:33:58,620 great strength 1385 00:33:56,034 --> 00:33:58,620 and great cleverness. 1386 00:33:58,662 --> 00:34:00,121 And if you know the story, 1387 00:34:00,163 --> 00:34:02,248 when Samson had long hair, 1388 00:34:00,163 --> 00:34:02,248 he was strong. 1389 00:34:02,290 --> 00:34:03,834 When he had short hair, 1390 00:34:02,290 --> 00:34:03,834 he was weak. 1391 00:34:03,876 --> 00:34:05,377 Now, what's the message there? 1392 00:34:05,418 --> 00:34:07,212 Well, it's obvious 1393 00:34:05,418 --> 00:34:07,212 we should have long hair, 1394 00:34:07,253 --> 00:34:08,547 so then we'll be strong. 1395 00:34:08,588 --> 00:34:10,298 No, that's not the message. 1396 00:34:10,340 --> 00:34:13,010 The message was 1397 00:34:10,340 --> 00:34:13,010 no matter how strong 1398 00:34:13,051 --> 00:34:14,845 or clever you are, 1399 00:34:14,887 --> 00:34:16,763 you are not your own savior. 1400 00:34:16,805 --> 00:34:18,765 You are not your own redeemer. 1401 00:34:18,807 --> 00:34:20,726 That's a dead end 1402 00:34:18,807 --> 00:34:20,726 if you're gonna depend 1403 00:34:20,767 --> 00:34:22,728 on your own strength 1404 00:34:20,767 --> 00:34:22,728 and your own wisdom. 1405 00:34:22,769 --> 00:34:24,646 Think about the way 1406 00:34:24,688 --> 00:34:26,565 an Eastern thinker 1407 00:34:24,688 --> 00:34:26,565 sometimes represents truth 1408 00:34:26,606 --> 00:34:28,107 is not saying this thought 1409 00:34:28,149 --> 00:34:29,693 leads to that thought, 1410 00:34:28,149 --> 00:34:29,693 leads to that thought. 1411 00:34:29,735 --> 00:34:32,863 But rather speaking 1412 00:34:29,735 --> 00:34:32,863 around a truth, 1413 00:34:32,905 --> 00:34:34,948 so that you get the truth. 1414 00:34:34,990 --> 00:34:37,534 [Dr. Chapell] The people of God 1415 00:34:34,990 --> 00:34:37,534 are given the law, 1416 00:34:37,576 --> 00:34:39,202 but they break the law. 1417 00:34:39,244 --> 00:34:41,162 Sacrifices are provided, 1418 00:34:41,204 --> 00:34:43,289 but the priests 1419 00:34:41,204 --> 00:34:43,289 who begin to offer them 1420 00:34:43,331 --> 00:34:45,667 become themselves malevolent 1421 00:34:43,331 --> 00:34:45,667 and not helping. 1422 00:34:45,709 --> 00:34:47,669 Then the judges say, 1423 00:34:45,709 --> 00:34:47,669 "Well, just do what's right 1424 00:34:47,711 --> 00:34:49,128 in your own eyes." 1425 00:34:47,711 --> 00:34:49,128 That doesn't work. 1426 00:34:49,170 --> 00:34:50,422 All right, pick a king, 1427 00:34:50,463 --> 00:34:52,591 your tallest, strongest, 1428 00:34:50,463 --> 00:34:52,591 handsomest guy. 1429 00:34:52,632 --> 00:34:54,509 Well that king becomes selfish. 1430 00:34:54,551 --> 00:34:56,803 Well, we'll give prophets 1431 00:34:54,551 --> 00:34:56,803 to the kings, 1432 00:34:56,845 --> 00:34:59,389 and the kings will learn 1433 00:34:56,845 --> 00:34:59,389 what to do from the prophets. 1434 00:34:59,431 --> 00:35:01,975 Sounds great, except the people 1435 00:34:59,431 --> 00:35:01,975 kill the prophets. 1436 00:35:02,017 --> 00:35:04,310 And you begin to understand 1437 00:35:04,352 --> 00:35:05,854 that through the course 1438 00:35:04,352 --> 00:35:05,854 of millennia, God is saying, 1439 00:35:05,896 --> 00:35:08,648 "We need a better law keeper. 1440 00:35:08,690 --> 00:35:10,692 We need a better judge. 1441 00:35:10,734 --> 00:35:12,527 Better sacrifice, 1442 00:35:12,569 --> 00:35:14,696 better prophet, better priest, 1443 00:35:12,569 --> 00:35:14,696 better king." 1444 00:35:14,738 --> 00:35:18,366 Not this, not this, not this, 1445 00:35:14,738 --> 00:35:18,366 not this, not this.... 1446 00:35:19,576 --> 00:35:22,161 but this. 1447 00:35:22,203 --> 00:35:24,330 [Paul] The gospel, 1448 00:35:22,203 --> 00:35:24,330 the more we know 1449 00:35:24,372 --> 00:35:26,083 about what God has done for us 1450 00:35:26,124 --> 00:35:27,667 in the person of Jesus Christ, 1451 00:35:27,709 --> 00:35:29,544 the great cost of our atonement, 1452 00:35:29,586 --> 00:35:31,588 what the atonement 1453 00:35:29,586 --> 00:35:31,588 has purchased for us, 1454 00:35:31,630 --> 00:35:34,132 the more we understand that 1455 00:35:31,630 --> 00:35:34,132 as Christians, 1456 00:35:34,173 --> 00:35:35,801 the more we're gonna grow 1457 00:35:34,173 --> 00:35:35,801 in sanctification, 1458 00:35:35,842 --> 00:35:38,637 the more we're gonna grow 1459 00:35:35,842 --> 00:35:38,637 in worship, devotion, 1460 00:35:38,678 --> 00:35:40,472 delight in the person of God. 1461 00:35:40,513 --> 00:35:43,100 What is the only reason 1462 00:35:43,141 --> 00:35:46,019 that sin has any power 1463 00:35:43,141 --> 00:35:46,019 in your life? 1464 00:35:47,604 --> 00:35:48,939 The answer is... 1465 00:35:50,273 --> 00:35:51,900 because you love it. 1466 00:35:51,942 --> 00:35:54,152 If the sin did not attract you, 1467 00:35:54,193 --> 00:35:55,862 it would have no power. 1468 00:35:55,904 --> 00:35:59,240 The reason that we sin 1469 00:35:55,904 --> 00:35:59,240 is because we love it. 1470 00:35:59,282 --> 00:36:02,786 And as hard as that is to hear, 1471 00:36:02,828 --> 00:36:04,955 it's actually 1472 00:36:02,828 --> 00:36:04,955 a wonderful understanding. 1473 00:36:04,997 --> 00:36:08,708 Because it means that power 1474 00:36:04,997 --> 00:36:08,708 over that sin 1475 00:36:08,750 --> 00:36:10,335 is a greater love. 1476 00:36:11,210 --> 00:36:13,088 [J.D.] The goal of a lecture 1477 00:36:13,130 --> 00:36:16,424 is that you leave 1478 00:36:13,130 --> 00:36:16,424 with information. 1479 00:36:16,466 --> 00:36:20,261 The goal 1480 00:36:16,466 --> 00:36:20,261 of a motivational speech 1481 00:36:20,303 --> 00:36:22,263 is that you leave 1482 00:36:20,303 --> 00:36:22,263 with action steps. 1483 00:36:22,305 --> 00:36:24,808 The goal of a gospel sermon, 1484 00:36:24,850 --> 00:36:26,434 the goal of teaching the Bible, 1485 00:36:26,476 --> 00:36:28,394 is that you leave worshipping. 1486 00:36:28,436 --> 00:36:31,106 [Dr. Horton] 1487 00:36:28,436 --> 00:36:31,106 If people and churches 1488 00:36:31,148 --> 00:36:33,274 are out of control morally, 1489 00:36:33,316 --> 00:36:36,402 it's probably that they don't 1490 00:36:33,316 --> 00:36:36,402 understand the gospel. 1491 00:36:36,444 --> 00:36:38,488 [Dr. Chapell] What the Bible 1492 00:36:36,444 --> 00:36:38,488 is actually teaching 1493 00:36:38,530 --> 00:36:40,406 is that the goal of preaching 1494 00:36:40,448 --> 00:36:44,285 is to have people 1495 00:36:40,448 --> 00:36:44,285 profoundly, deeply, 1496 00:36:44,327 --> 00:36:47,205 love the Savior, 1497 00:36:44,327 --> 00:36:47,205 so that there is a consequence 1498 00:36:47,246 --> 00:36:48,456 in our hearts and lives. 1499 00:36:48,498 --> 00:36:50,249 Jesus said that in John 14:15. 1500 00:36:50,291 --> 00:36:53,795 He said, "If you love Me, 1501 00:36:50,291 --> 00:36:53,795 you will keep My commands." 1502 00:36:53,837 --> 00:36:55,714 And what makes us 1503 00:36:53,837 --> 00:36:55,714 want to do that is 1504 00:36:55,755 --> 00:36:57,507 a heart that loves the Savior 1505 00:36:57,549 --> 00:37:00,969 because we've perceived 1506 00:36:57,549 --> 00:37:00,969 how great is His love for us. 1507 00:37:01,011 --> 00:37:02,595 Because when people 1508 00:37:01,011 --> 00:37:02,595 are filled up 1509 00:37:02,637 --> 00:37:04,430 with love for Christ, 1510 00:37:04,472 --> 00:37:08,101 the love for the world 1511 00:37:04,472 --> 00:37:08,101 is pushed out of their hearts, 1512 00:37:08,143 --> 00:37:12,397 and the power of Christ 1513 00:37:08,143 --> 00:37:12,397 is now in their lives. 1514 00:37:12,438 --> 00:37:14,273 [Phill] So as long as we sin, 1515 00:37:14,315 --> 00:37:16,735 unless we have a doctrine 1516 00:37:14,315 --> 00:37:16,735 of sinless perfection, 1517 00:37:16,776 --> 00:37:19,278 and that you no longer 1518 00:37:16,776 --> 00:37:19,278 sin anymore, 1519 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,407 which I think that's been known 1520 00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:22,407 for quite some time as a heresy, 1521 00:37:22,448 --> 00:37:25,160 then as long as you're 1522 00:37:22,448 --> 00:37:25,160 a sinner, you need the gospel. 1523 00:37:25,202 --> 00:37:28,454 If you sinned yesterday, 1524 00:37:25,202 --> 00:37:28,454 then you need the gospel today. 1525 00:37:28,496 --> 00:37:31,249 Because the gospel 1526 00:37:28,496 --> 00:37:31,249 produces faith, 1527 00:37:31,290 --> 00:37:33,334 and faith produces love, 1528 00:37:33,376 --> 00:37:36,337 and love produces 1529 00:37:33,376 --> 00:37:36,337 the fruit of good works. 1530 00:37:36,379 --> 00:37:39,632 I think the gospel should be 1531 00:37:36,379 --> 00:37:39,632 preached in every sermon. 1532 00:37:39,674 --> 00:37:41,384 If I've got somebody here 1533 00:37:41,426 --> 00:37:43,678 that I've been trying 1534 00:37:41,426 --> 00:37:43,678 to get here for three years, 1535 00:37:43,720 --> 00:37:46,347 they're my next-door neighbor, 1536 00:37:43,720 --> 00:37:46,347 and the guy preaching today 1537 00:37:46,389 --> 00:37:48,307 is just telling me 1538 00:37:46,389 --> 00:37:48,307 the joys of motherhood, 1539 00:37:48,349 --> 00:37:50,309 you know, I'm-- 1540 00:37:48,349 --> 00:37:50,309 I'm in favor of motherhood, 1541 00:37:50,351 --> 00:37:53,230 but if that's all this visitor 1542 00:37:50,351 --> 00:37:53,230 that I bring hears, 1543 00:37:53,271 --> 00:37:54,814 that's just a shame. 1544 00:37:54,856 --> 00:37:56,441 If your sermon 1545 00:37:56,482 --> 00:37:59,069 could be preached 1546 00:37:56,482 --> 00:37:59,069 in a Jewish synagogue, 1547 00:37:59,111 --> 00:38:01,238 then it's not 1548 00:37:59,111 --> 00:38:01,238 a Christian sermon. 1549 00:38:01,279 --> 00:38:03,240 Foremost, in my life, 1550 00:38:03,281 --> 00:38:05,617 whenever I have 1551 00:38:03,281 --> 00:38:05,617 a chance to preach, 1552 00:38:05,658 --> 00:38:09,955 it's, first of all, 1553 00:38:05,658 --> 00:38:09,955 going to be the gospel, 1554 00:38:09,996 --> 00:38:12,582 and then build upon 1555 00:38:09,996 --> 00:38:12,582 that central message. 1556 00:38:12,624 --> 00:38:16,253 Because if someone doesn't have 1557 00:38:12,624 --> 00:38:16,253 a right view of the gospel, 1558 00:38:16,294 --> 00:38:19,256 they don't have a right view 1559 00:38:16,294 --> 00:38:19,256 about anything. 1560 00:38:19,297 --> 00:38:21,507 [Matt] So, a type 1561 00:38:19,297 --> 00:38:21,507 of reading the Bible 1562 00:38:21,549 --> 00:38:22,926 where I'm always the hero, 1563 00:38:22,968 --> 00:38:24,427 I'm never the Pharisee. 1564 00:38:24,469 --> 00:38:26,638 I'm never the scared Israelites. 1565 00:38:26,679 --> 00:38:29,348 I'm never the ones who 1566 00:38:26,679 --> 00:38:29,348 are gonna worship a golden calf 1567 00:38:29,390 --> 00:38:32,518 just a few weeks after 1568 00:38:29,390 --> 00:38:32,518 I was led through the Red Sea, 1569 00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:34,520 is a misreading of scripture 1570 00:38:34,562 --> 00:38:37,440 that makes man the champion 1571 00:38:34,562 --> 00:38:37,440 and not God. 1572 00:38:37,482 --> 00:38:40,359 And it's unhealthy, 1573 00:38:37,482 --> 00:38:40,359 and it's broken, and it leads 1574 00:38:40,401 --> 00:38:42,361 to man trying to manipulate 1575 00:38:42,403 --> 00:38:44,990 and control God 1576 00:38:42,403 --> 00:38:44,990 like He was a genie in a lamp. 1577 00:38:46,908 --> 00:38:49,327 [Seth] We need to check 1578 00:38:46,908 --> 00:38:49,327 ourselves and check our heart. 1579 00:38:49,368 --> 00:38:52,413 Oftentimes, we find ourselves 1580 00:38:49,368 --> 00:38:52,413 sitting in pews 1581 00:38:52,455 --> 00:38:54,916 or even coming to church 1582 00:38:54,958 --> 00:38:57,460 in order to get something 1583 00:38:54,958 --> 00:38:57,460 from Jesus 1584 00:38:57,502 --> 00:38:59,337 but not get Jesus Himself. 1585 00:39:00,713 --> 00:39:04,217 [Katherine] So I was raised 1586 00:39:00,713 --> 00:39:04,217 in a non-Christian home. 1587 00:39:04,259 --> 00:39:08,387 And I always sort of felt 1588 00:39:04,259 --> 00:39:08,387 a pull towards religion. 1589 00:39:08,429 --> 00:39:10,223 I was always interested in it. 1590 00:39:10,265 --> 00:39:11,724 When we moved to the South, 1591 00:39:11,766 --> 00:39:13,726 there was certainly 1592 00:39:11,766 --> 00:39:13,726 a lot of Christian homes, 1593 00:39:13,768 --> 00:39:16,479 a lot of friends of mine 1594 00:39:13,768 --> 00:39:16,479 who went to church. 1595 00:39:16,521 --> 00:39:19,316 And so, I definitely knew 1596 00:39:16,521 --> 00:39:19,316 about the gospel. 1597 00:39:19,398 --> 00:39:20,608 I was interested in it, 1598 00:39:20,650 --> 00:39:22,235 but I didn't really 1599 00:39:20,650 --> 00:39:22,235 understand it. 1600 00:39:22,277 --> 00:39:26,239 And as I got older, 1601 00:39:22,277 --> 00:39:26,239 I really started to question God 1602 00:39:26,281 --> 00:39:28,908 and how He could 1603 00:39:26,281 --> 00:39:28,908 send people to hell. 1604 00:39:28,950 --> 00:39:30,618 [Katherine] That was sort of 1605 00:39:28,950 --> 00:39:30,618 the big hang-up 1606 00:39:30,660 --> 00:39:32,453 that I had with religion. 1607 00:39:32,495 --> 00:39:34,413 I really humanized God. 1608 00:39:34,455 --> 00:39:36,082 And I would say to people, 1609 00:39:36,124 --> 00:39:39,585 you know, "If I couldn't send 1610 00:39:36,124 --> 00:39:39,585 even my biggest enemy, 1611 00:39:39,627 --> 00:39:41,796 you know, to burn in hell 1612 00:39:39,627 --> 00:39:41,796 for all eternity, 1613 00:39:41,838 --> 00:39:44,465 how could a God 1614 00:39:41,838 --> 00:39:44,465 who loves people so much 1615 00:39:44,507 --> 00:39:46,009 do something like that?" 1616 00:39:46,051 --> 00:39:48,553 I would have called myself 1617 00:39:46,051 --> 00:39:48,553 maybe spiritual. 1618 00:39:48,594 --> 00:39:52,140 You know, I thought that all 1619 00:39:48,594 --> 00:39:52,140 of the religions were right. 1620 00:39:52,182 --> 00:39:53,808 I kind of felt 1621 00:39:52,182 --> 00:39:53,808 that there was a way 1622 00:39:53,850 --> 00:39:56,561 for all of them to kind of 1623 00:39:53,850 --> 00:39:56,561 overlap and work together. 1624 00:39:56,602 --> 00:39:57,896 And... 1625 00:39:57,937 --> 00:40:01,233 as I met Russell, 1626 00:39:57,937 --> 00:40:01,233 he was atheist, 1627 00:40:01,274 --> 00:40:04,277 and I think 1628 00:40:01,274 --> 00:40:04,277 that really helped to 1629 00:40:04,319 --> 00:40:07,780 maybe take me even further 1630 00:40:04,319 --> 00:40:07,780 away from Christianity. 1631 00:40:08,907 --> 00:40:11,409 So before I got sick, 1632 00:40:11,450 --> 00:40:15,538 I was somebody who probably 1633 00:40:11,450 --> 00:40:15,538 spent most of their time 1634 00:40:15,580 --> 00:40:18,583 worrying about how healthy 1635 00:40:15,580 --> 00:40:18,583 my diet was. 1636 00:40:18,624 --> 00:40:21,294 Russell and I had just 1637 00:40:18,624 --> 00:40:21,294 been married for a year. 1638 00:40:21,336 --> 00:40:22,461 We were happy. 1639 00:40:22,503 --> 00:40:24,547 I was focused on working out. 1640 00:40:24,589 --> 00:40:26,883 Exercise was a big part 1641 00:40:24,589 --> 00:40:26,883 of our relationship. 1642 00:40:26,925 --> 00:40:29,677 I actually was able 1643 00:40:26,925 --> 00:40:29,677 to do CrossFit 1644 00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:30,929 all during my pregnancy. 1645 00:40:30,970 --> 00:40:33,306 I was running when 1646 00:40:30,970 --> 00:40:33,306 I went into labor. 1647 00:40:33,348 --> 00:40:35,725 I felt like I had done 1648 00:40:33,348 --> 00:40:35,725 everything right. 1649 00:40:35,767 --> 00:40:37,852 I had a career 1650 00:40:35,767 --> 00:40:37,852 in pharmaceutical sales 1651 00:40:37,894 --> 00:40:39,354 that was important to me. 1652 00:40:39,396 --> 00:40:41,689 And then when I got sick, 1653 00:40:41,731 --> 00:40:44,276 you know, everything changed. 1654 00:40:44,317 --> 00:40:46,819 Today is your day 1655 00:40:44,317 --> 00:40:46,819 for a miracle. 1656 00:40:46,861 --> 00:40:50,949 [Kenneth Copeland, on video] 1657 00:40:46,861 --> 00:40:50,949 Is it God's will to heal? 1658 00:40:50,990 --> 00:40:53,952 If so, is it His will 1659 00:40:50,990 --> 00:40:53,952 to heal me? 1660 00:40:53,993 --> 00:40:56,079 The answer is yes 1661 00:40:56,121 --> 00:40:58,081 and yes. 1662 00:40:58,123 --> 00:40:59,416 When I'm praying for somebody, 1663 00:40:59,457 --> 00:41:00,917 the first thing 1664 00:40:59,457 --> 00:41:00,917 that has to happen 1665 00:41:00,959 --> 00:41:02,794 is I have to be 1666 00:41:00,959 --> 00:41:02,794 absolutely convinced 1667 00:41:02,835 --> 00:41:04,587 that it's God's will 1668 00:41:02,835 --> 00:41:04,587 to heal people every time. 1669 00:41:04,629 --> 00:41:06,464 [Justin] 1670 00:41:04,629 --> 00:41:06,464 The Word of Faith Movement 1671 00:41:06,505 --> 00:41:08,341 is the term that's given 1672 00:41:06,505 --> 00:41:08,341 to a movement 1673 00:41:08,383 --> 00:41:11,552 that's more commonly known as 1674 00:41:08,383 --> 00:41:11,552 the "health and wealth gospel," 1675 00:41:11,594 --> 00:41:14,222 the "prosperity gospel," 1676 00:41:11,594 --> 00:41:14,222 "name it and claim it gospel." 1677 00:41:14,264 --> 00:41:16,015 This teaching that 1678 00:41:16,057 --> 00:41:18,977 it is always God's will 1679 00:41:16,057 --> 00:41:18,977 for a Christian to be wealthy, 1680 00:41:19,018 --> 00:41:20,645 it is always God's will 1681 00:41:19,018 --> 00:41:20,645 for a Christian 1682 00:41:20,686 --> 00:41:23,106 to be physically healed, 1683 00:41:20,686 --> 00:41:23,106 we should never be sick... 1684 00:41:23,148 --> 00:41:25,524 Believe me when I tell you 1685 00:41:25,566 --> 00:41:28,569 I never get sick. 1686 00:41:28,611 --> 00:41:31,656 I was as sick as a sick dog. 1687 00:41:31,697 --> 00:41:32,949 With a--with a cold. 1688 00:41:32,991 --> 00:41:34,409 Yeah, yeah. I get sick, too. 1689 00:41:34,451 --> 00:41:36,286 [Justin] 1690 00:41:34,451 --> 00:41:36,286 Or if we do get sick, 1691 00:41:36,328 --> 00:41:38,621 we can be healed as long 1692 00:41:36,328 --> 00:41:38,621 as we have enough faith. 1693 00:41:38,663 --> 00:41:41,333 We can attract 1694 00:41:38,663 --> 00:41:41,333 positive things to ourselves 1695 00:41:41,374 --> 00:41:42,667 through positive thinking. 1696 00:41:42,708 --> 00:41:44,127 And Norman Vincent Peale, 1697 00:41:44,169 --> 00:41:46,754 the great Norman Vincent Peale 1698 00:41:44,169 --> 00:41:46,754 was my pastor. 1699 00:41:46,796 --> 00:41:49,090 The Power of Positive Thinking. 1700 00:41:49,132 --> 00:41:50,300 And the Word of Faith Movement 1701 00:41:50,342 --> 00:41:53,678 is led by people 1702 00:41:50,342 --> 00:41:53,678 such as Benny Hinn, 1703 00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:55,721 world's most famous 1704 00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:55,721 faith healer. 1705 00:41:55,763 --> 00:41:57,849 Kenneth Copeland, 1706 00:41:55,763 --> 00:41:57,849 Creflo Dollar, 1707 00:41:57,890 --> 00:42:01,060 Joyce Meyer, Joel Osteen, 1708 00:42:01,102 --> 00:42:03,729 Joseph Prince, T.D. Jakes, 1709 00:42:03,771 --> 00:42:05,523 Andrew Wommack. 1710 00:42:05,564 --> 00:42:07,650 These are just some 1711 00:42:05,564 --> 00:42:07,650 of the more prominent leaders 1712 00:42:07,692 --> 00:42:08,734 of the movement. 1713 00:42:08,776 --> 00:42:11,112 But what has happened is that 1714 00:42:11,154 --> 00:42:15,700 the United States of America 1715 00:42:11,154 --> 00:42:15,700 has created this false theology 1716 00:42:15,741 --> 00:42:18,077 and has now exported it 1717 00:42:18,119 --> 00:42:20,372 to the rest of the world 1718 00:42:18,119 --> 00:42:20,372 to the point that 1719 00:42:20,413 --> 00:42:22,123 now the face of Christianity 1720 00:42:22,165 --> 00:42:25,210 in most of the world today 1721 00:42:22,165 --> 00:42:25,210 is Word of Faith. 1722 00:42:25,251 --> 00:42:27,837 [David W. Jones] The idea, 1723 00:42:25,251 --> 00:42:27,837 simply put, is that if you, 1724 00:42:27,879 --> 00:42:29,630 if you love Jesus, 1725 00:42:29,672 --> 00:42:31,216 if you're a follower of Christ, 1726 00:42:31,257 --> 00:42:33,968 you can generally expect 1727 00:42:31,257 --> 00:42:33,968 health, wealth, and happiness. 1728 00:42:34,010 --> 00:42:36,429 [soft music] 1729 00:42:36,471 --> 00:42:38,639 [Katherine] 1730 00:42:36,471 --> 00:42:38,639 When I went into labor, 1731 00:42:38,681 --> 00:42:40,558 everything started to go wrong. 1732 00:42:40,599 --> 00:42:43,478 My delivery went really fast. 1733 00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:45,104 I found out later 1734 00:42:45,146 --> 00:42:47,857 that that was because I had 1735 00:42:45,146 --> 00:42:47,857 a connective tissue disease, 1736 00:42:47,899 --> 00:42:49,484 and that's one 1737 00:42:47,899 --> 00:42:49,484 of the signs of it. 1738 00:42:49,526 --> 00:42:53,112 I was diagnosed 1739 00:42:49,526 --> 00:42:53,112 with Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, 1740 00:42:53,154 --> 00:42:55,823 which is a really rare 1741 00:42:53,154 --> 00:42:55,823 genetic disorder 1742 00:42:55,865 --> 00:42:57,658 that affects 1743 00:42:55,865 --> 00:42:57,658 the connective tissue 1744 00:42:57,700 --> 00:42:59,411 and the collagen 1745 00:42:57,700 --> 00:42:59,411 throughout your body. 1746 00:42:59,452 --> 00:43:01,662 So it affects everyone 1747 00:42:59,452 --> 00:43:01,662 in different ways, 1748 00:43:01,704 --> 00:43:04,832 but it can affect 1749 00:43:01,704 --> 00:43:04,832 pretty much every body system. 1750 00:43:04,874 --> 00:43:06,459 After the delivery, 1751 00:43:06,501 --> 00:43:09,170 I was left with 1752 00:43:06,501 --> 00:43:09,170 a fractured pelvis 1753 00:43:09,212 --> 00:43:11,297 and a lot of internal injuries 1754 00:43:11,339 --> 00:43:15,260 that caused me a lot of pain, 1755 00:43:11,339 --> 00:43:15,260 and my doctor told me that 1756 00:43:15,301 --> 00:43:18,888 right away I would need surgery 1757 00:43:15,301 --> 00:43:18,888 to repair my pelvis. 1758 00:43:18,930 --> 00:43:20,765 And I basically had two choices. 1759 00:43:20,806 --> 00:43:22,850 We could have one more child, 1760 00:43:22,892 --> 00:43:25,270 or we could go ahead 1761 00:43:22,892 --> 00:43:25,270 and--and have that surgery. 1762 00:43:25,311 --> 00:43:29,023 We had always wanted 1763 00:43:25,311 --> 00:43:29,023 to have four kids. 1764 00:43:29,065 --> 00:43:31,276 That was sort of the number 1765 00:43:29,065 --> 00:43:31,276 that we wanted. 1766 00:43:31,317 --> 00:43:32,651 But we had to change that, 1767 00:43:32,693 --> 00:43:34,904 and we decided that 1768 00:43:32,693 --> 00:43:34,904 we would have two. 1769 00:43:34,946 --> 00:43:36,948 We still weren't 1770 00:43:34,946 --> 00:43:36,948 going to church. 1771 00:43:36,989 --> 00:43:38,533 We still didn't believe in God. 1772 00:43:38,575 --> 00:43:40,826 I still just kind of 1773 00:43:38,575 --> 00:43:40,826 struggled my way through 1774 00:43:40,868 --> 00:43:42,328 with our daughter 1775 00:43:42,370 --> 00:43:45,331 until I could get pregnant 1776 00:43:42,370 --> 00:43:45,331 with our son. 1777 00:43:45,373 --> 00:43:46,916 When he was born early, 1778 00:43:46,958 --> 00:43:49,668 in all honesty, 1779 00:43:46,958 --> 00:43:49,668 I was just grateful 1780 00:43:49,710 --> 00:43:51,504 that the pregnancy was over, 1781 00:43:51,546 --> 00:43:53,339 the pain was over, 1782 00:43:53,381 --> 00:43:55,841 that I could move forward 1783 00:43:53,381 --> 00:43:55,841 in scheduling that surgery 1784 00:43:55,883 --> 00:43:57,927 that was gonna give me 1785 00:43:55,883 --> 00:43:57,927 my life back. 1786 00:43:57,969 --> 00:44:01,847 I went into that thinking, 1787 00:43:57,969 --> 00:44:01,847 "This surgery will cure me. 1788 00:44:01,889 --> 00:44:03,141 When this is over, 1789 00:44:03,182 --> 00:44:05,184 I will go get right back 1790 00:44:03,182 --> 00:44:05,184 to my old life. 1791 00:44:05,226 --> 00:44:06,727 Everything will be the same. 1792 00:44:06,769 --> 00:44:08,980 I deserve to be healed. 1793 00:44:09,021 --> 00:44:10,940 I deserve to have no pain. 1794 00:44:10,982 --> 00:44:13,359 I deserve my old life back. 1795 00:44:13,401 --> 00:44:15,361 I didn't do anything wrong." 1796 00:44:15,403 --> 00:44:17,196 You know, God wants you healthy. 1797 00:44:17,238 --> 00:44:19,949 I believe in healing, 1798 00:44:17,238 --> 00:44:19,949 in divine healing, of course, 1799 00:44:19,991 --> 00:44:21,534 and I go to the world, 1800 00:44:19,991 --> 00:44:21,534 and travel, 1801 00:44:21,576 --> 00:44:23,202 and preach the gospel and I-- 1802 00:44:23,244 --> 00:44:25,246 [Costi] I grew up in 1803 00:44:23,244 --> 00:44:25,246 the Word of Faith Movement, 1804 00:44:25,288 --> 00:44:26,914 in the prosperity gospel. 1805 00:44:26,956 --> 00:44:29,708 I worked for my uncle, 1806 00:44:26,956 --> 00:44:29,708 Benny Hinn, 1807 00:44:29,750 --> 00:44:32,170 who is a famous faith healer 1808 00:44:29,750 --> 00:44:32,170 and pretty well-known. 1809 00:44:32,211 --> 00:44:35,214 When I worked with my family, 1810 00:44:32,211 --> 00:44:35,214 I was a catcher. 1811 00:44:35,256 --> 00:44:38,092 And so my job 1812 00:44:35,256 --> 00:44:38,092 was to look sharp in a suit, 1813 00:44:38,134 --> 00:44:41,137 and be on stage when people 1814 00:44:38,134 --> 00:44:41,137 were being prayed for. 1815 00:44:41,179 --> 00:44:43,389 But what was going through 1816 00:44:41,179 --> 00:44:43,389 my mind at the time 1817 00:44:43,431 --> 00:44:44,723 at every crusade 1818 00:44:44,765 --> 00:44:46,351 was that this was real, 1819 00:44:46,392 --> 00:44:48,019 that people were really 1820 00:44:46,392 --> 00:44:48,019 being touched, 1821 00:44:48,060 --> 00:44:49,979 that my uncle was anointed. 1822 00:44:50,021 --> 00:44:52,148 I would lift my hands 1823 00:44:50,021 --> 00:44:52,148 and I would speak in tongues, 1824 00:44:52,190 --> 00:44:54,108 and I would pray in the Spirit. 1825 00:44:54,150 --> 00:44:55,485 Praying that God 1826 00:44:54,150 --> 00:44:55,485 would touch them, 1827 00:44:55,527 --> 00:44:56,653 that He would fill them, 1828 00:44:56,693 --> 00:44:57,903 that He would heal them, 1829 00:44:56,693 --> 00:44:57,903 et cetera. 1830 00:44:57,945 --> 00:45:00,156 And to Jesus be the praise. 1831 00:45:00,198 --> 00:45:01,991 [Costi] 1832 00:45:00,198 --> 00:45:01,991 Today, I hold 1833 00:45:02,033 --> 00:45:03,284 no positions 1834 00:45:03,326 --> 00:45:04,994 that are in agreement 1835 00:45:03,326 --> 00:45:04,994 with my family, 1836 00:45:05,036 --> 00:45:07,955 the Word of Faith theology, 1837 00:45:05,036 --> 00:45:07,955 or the prosperity gospel. 1838 00:45:07,997 --> 00:45:09,874 And the reason for that is, 1839 00:45:09,915 --> 00:45:13,752 I've come to an understanding 1840 00:45:09,915 --> 00:45:13,752 of the true gospel. 1841 00:45:13,794 --> 00:45:16,548 [train rattling over tracks] 1842 00:45:16,589 --> 00:45:19,592 [Sean] I didn't grow up 1843 00:45:16,589 --> 00:45:19,592 in a believing household. 1844 00:45:19,634 --> 00:45:22,303 Great-grandmother, 1845 00:45:19,634 --> 00:45:22,303 grandmother, uncle, mom, 1846 00:45:22,345 --> 00:45:23,762 all drug addicts. 1847 00:45:23,804 --> 00:45:26,391 Father, drug addict, 1848 00:45:23,804 --> 00:45:26,391 drug dealer. 1849 00:45:26,432 --> 00:45:29,018 When I was about 12, 1850 00:45:26,432 --> 00:45:29,018 I started using drugs, 1851 00:45:29,060 --> 00:45:31,896 and getting involved with 1852 00:45:29,060 --> 00:45:31,896 gangs and violence 1853 00:45:31,937 --> 00:45:33,606 and drug dealing and... 1854 00:45:33,648 --> 00:45:35,567 And then when I was 18, 1855 00:45:33,648 --> 00:45:35,567 the Lord saved me. 1856 00:45:35,608 --> 00:45:37,276 And basically meant 1857 00:45:35,608 --> 00:45:37,276 I was preaching the gospel 1858 00:45:37,318 --> 00:45:41,447 in the same projects 1859 00:45:37,318 --> 00:45:41,447 where I used to sell dope. 1860 00:45:41,489 --> 00:45:43,575 And I met a guy and he said, 1861 00:45:43,616 --> 00:45:46,578 "Do you understand that Bible 1862 00:45:43,616 --> 00:45:46,578 you're carrying around?" 1863 00:45:46,619 --> 00:45:47,912 And I told him that I didn't, 1864 00:45:47,953 --> 00:45:49,288 and that nobody had 1865 00:45:47,953 --> 00:45:49,288 taken the time 1866 00:45:49,330 --> 00:45:50,707 to help me understand it. 1867 00:45:50,747 --> 00:45:53,251 And he pulled me aside 1868 00:45:50,747 --> 00:45:53,251 and said that he would. 1869 00:45:53,292 --> 00:45:55,127 And I had no idea 1870 00:45:55,169 --> 00:45:58,005 that what he was teaching me 1871 00:45:55,169 --> 00:45:58,005 was the prosperity gospel. 1872 00:45:59,591 --> 00:46:02,552 [Constance] I actually grew up 1873 00:45:59,591 --> 00:46:02,552 with no background in church. 1874 00:46:02,594 --> 00:46:06,598 When I fell into 1875 00:46:02,594 --> 00:46:06,598 the Word of Faith 1876 00:46:02,594 --> 00:46:06,598 prosperity churches, 1877 00:46:06,639 --> 00:46:08,349 I thought that 1878 00:46:06,639 --> 00:46:08,349 that was the truth, 1879 00:46:08,391 --> 00:46:10,767 and so I fully depended 1880 00:46:08,391 --> 00:46:10,767 on my pastor 1881 00:46:10,809 --> 00:46:12,562 for feeding that to me. 1882 00:46:12,604 --> 00:46:14,355 I guess I just had 1883 00:46:12,604 --> 00:46:14,355 this knowledge 1884 00:46:14,397 --> 00:46:15,607 that God existed, 1885 00:46:15,648 --> 00:46:17,400 but I didn't have 1886 00:46:15,648 --> 00:46:17,400 an understanding 1887 00:46:17,442 --> 00:46:18,693 of who God was. 1888 00:46:18,735 --> 00:46:21,820 I had no clue 1889 00:46:18,735 --> 00:46:21,820 what the gospel was. 1890 00:46:21,862 --> 00:46:23,531 I had never really heard it. 1891 00:46:23,573 --> 00:46:25,617 As far as I knew, 1892 00:46:23,573 --> 00:46:25,617 He died and rose again 1893 00:46:25,658 --> 00:46:27,952 so that I could have 1894 00:46:25,658 --> 00:46:27,952 a prosperous life. 1895 00:46:27,993 --> 00:46:30,037 You know, Jesus died that 1896 00:46:27,993 --> 00:46:30,037 we might live an abundant life. 1897 00:46:30,079 --> 00:46:31,456 [Constance] 1898 00:46:30,079 --> 00:46:31,456 And so that's what it was. 1899 00:46:31,497 --> 00:46:32,707 "Thanks! 1900 00:46:32,749 --> 00:46:34,542 Thanks for my ticket!" 1901 00:46:32,749 --> 00:46:34,542 You know, so... 1902 00:46:34,584 --> 00:46:38,546 [Costi] I was the benefactor 1903 00:46:34,584 --> 00:46:38,546 of the theology that we taught, 1904 00:46:38,588 --> 00:46:43,092 which primarily makes Jesus 1905 00:46:38,588 --> 00:46:43,092 your magic genie in a sense. 1906 00:46:43,134 --> 00:46:45,428 And if you rub Him right, 1907 00:46:43,134 --> 00:46:45,428 if you do all the right things, 1908 00:46:45,470 --> 00:46:47,930 He will bless you. You will 1909 00:46:45,470 --> 00:46:47,930 have everything you want. 1910 00:46:47,972 --> 00:46:52,393 I view the Holy Spirit like 1911 00:46:47,972 --> 00:46:52,393 the genie from Aladdin. 1912 00:46:52,435 --> 00:46:55,521 I had a totally false 1913 00:46:52,435 --> 00:46:55,521 understanding of God. 1914 00:46:55,563 --> 00:46:57,940 And so when God didn't do 1915 00:46:57,982 --> 00:47:00,859 what I felt that 1916 00:46:57,982 --> 00:47:00,859 He was supposed to do, 1917 00:47:00,901 --> 00:47:02,487 I was very upset with Him. 1918 00:47:00,901 --> 00:47:02,487 [laughs] 1919 00:47:02,528 --> 00:47:04,113 Very upset. 1920 00:47:04,155 --> 00:47:05,782 [Costi] By the time I was 1921 00:47:04,155 --> 00:47:05,782 finishing high school, 1922 00:47:05,822 --> 00:47:07,908 all I really wanted to do 1923 00:47:05,822 --> 00:47:07,908 was play baseball. 1924 00:47:07,950 --> 00:47:10,953 Naturally, being 1925 00:47:07,950 --> 00:47:10,953 a Word of Faith kid, for me, 1926 00:47:10,995 --> 00:47:12,538 if you really want God 1927 00:47:10,995 --> 00:47:12,538 to bless you, 1928 00:47:12,580 --> 00:47:14,165 you've got to 1929 00:47:12,580 --> 00:47:14,165 do something for Him. 1930 00:47:14,206 --> 00:47:16,959 And so I sowed a seed before 1931 00:47:14,206 --> 00:47:16,959 ever going to college, 1932 00:47:17,001 --> 00:47:18,628 after graduating high school. 1933 00:47:18,670 --> 00:47:22,548 And my seed that was sown 1934 00:47:18,670 --> 00:47:22,548 was working for Uncle Benny. 1935 00:47:22,590 --> 00:47:24,550 I was gonna serve the holy man. 1936 00:47:24,592 --> 00:47:26,218 I was gonna be 1937 00:47:24,592 --> 00:47:26,218 on his ministry team. 1938 00:47:26,260 --> 00:47:28,137 I was gonna put God first. 1939 00:47:28,179 --> 00:47:31,015 'Cause I've got dreams. 1940 00:47:28,179 --> 00:47:31,015 I've got money I wanna make. 1941 00:47:31,056 --> 00:47:32,308 I got houses I wanna buy. 1942 00:47:32,350 --> 00:47:33,892 I got baseball 1943 00:47:32,350 --> 00:47:33,892 that I wanna play. 1944 00:47:33,934 --> 00:47:35,852 And what you do is, 1945 00:47:33,934 --> 00:47:35,852 you create a God 1946 00:47:35,894 --> 00:47:39,023 who only wants to give you 1947 00:47:35,894 --> 00:47:39,023 all the desires of your heart. 1948 00:47:39,064 --> 00:47:41,150 God Almighty 1949 00:47:41,192 --> 00:47:44,779 is about to give you 1950 00:47:41,192 --> 00:47:44,779 the desires of your heart. 1951 00:47:44,821 --> 00:47:46,531 The true gospel says 1952 00:47:44,821 --> 00:47:46,531 those desires 1953 00:47:46,572 --> 00:47:47,948 that we're born with, 1954 00:47:47,990 --> 00:47:50,159 that those aren't 1955 00:47:47,990 --> 00:47:50,159 good desires at all. 1956 00:47:50,201 --> 00:47:51,828 That our hearts are corrupt. 1957 00:47:51,868 --> 00:47:55,247 Our hearts are desperately 1958 00:47:51,868 --> 00:47:55,247 deceitful and wicked. 1959 00:47:55,289 --> 00:47:57,208 [Costi] Fast-forward to about 1960 00:47:57,249 --> 00:48:00,002 my second-to-last 1961 00:47:57,249 --> 00:48:00,002 year of college, 1962 00:48:00,044 --> 00:48:01,128 and I've got a coach 1963 00:48:01,170 --> 00:48:02,963 who is a disciple-making coach. 1964 00:48:03,005 --> 00:48:04,423 He's a wonderful man. 1965 00:48:04,465 --> 00:48:06,133 His main goal 1966 00:48:06,175 --> 00:48:09,428 was to develop us as men, 1967 00:48:06,175 --> 00:48:09,428 and as Christian men. 1968 00:48:09,470 --> 00:48:12,390 And so one day before a game, 1969 00:48:09,470 --> 00:48:12,390 he stands there and says, 1970 00:48:12,431 --> 00:48:15,267 "Gentlemen, God is sovereign. 1971 00:48:15,309 --> 00:48:17,228 Don't worry about the scouts 1972 00:48:15,309 --> 00:48:17,228 in the stands. 1973 00:48:17,269 --> 00:48:19,814 Don't worry about all that, 1974 00:48:17,269 --> 00:48:19,814 you know, the future holds. 1975 00:48:19,856 --> 00:48:22,525 God is sovereign." 1976 00:48:19,856 --> 00:48:22,525 Then he quotes a famous proverb 1977 00:48:22,567 --> 00:48:25,319 that says, 1978 00:48:22,567 --> 00:48:25,319 "The king's heart is like water 1979 00:48:25,361 --> 00:48:27,071 in the channels 1980 00:48:25,361 --> 00:48:27,071 of the hand of the Lord. 1981 00:48:27,112 --> 00:48:28,698 He turns them 1982 00:48:27,112 --> 00:48:28,698 wherever He wishes." 1983 00:48:28,740 --> 00:48:30,825 He says, "God controls kings. 1984 00:48:30,867 --> 00:48:32,368 God controls your future. 1985 00:48:32,410 --> 00:48:33,828 God controls the scouts. 1986 00:48:33,870 --> 00:48:35,872 He's sovereign. 1987 00:48:33,870 --> 00:48:35,872 Don't worry about it." 1988 00:48:35,912 --> 00:48:37,874 And as a Word of Faith 1989 00:48:35,912 --> 00:48:37,874 prosperity kid, 1990 00:48:37,914 --> 00:48:39,584 in the back of my mind, 1991 00:48:37,914 --> 00:48:39,584 I'm thinking, 1992 00:48:39,625 --> 00:48:41,878 "Hmm, how do I get on 1993 00:48:39,625 --> 00:48:41,878 the good side of sovereignty? 1994 00:48:41,918 --> 00:48:44,505 I need the sovereignty thing 1995 00:48:41,918 --> 00:48:44,505 to go to work for me." 1996 00:48:44,547 --> 00:48:47,383 But that was a massive seed 1997 00:48:44,547 --> 00:48:47,383 that was planted in my life 1998 00:48:47,425 --> 00:48:48,676 because it was the opposite 1999 00:48:48,718 --> 00:48:50,511 of everything 2000 00:48:48,718 --> 00:48:50,511 I had ever been taught. 2001 00:48:50,553 --> 00:48:53,681 Because you've been taught 2002 00:48:50,553 --> 00:48:53,681 things like, "God's in control." 2003 00:48:53,723 --> 00:48:56,559 The Bible doesn't teach that. 2004 00:48:56,601 --> 00:48:58,102 But it was completely biblical. 2005 00:48:58,143 --> 00:49:00,646 God was sovereign, 2006 00:48:58,143 --> 00:49:00,646 and nothing I say or do 2007 00:49:00,688 --> 00:49:02,398 was gonna change that. 2008 00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:08,028 The prosperity gospel is really 2009 00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:08,028 the worst manifestation 2010 00:49:08,070 --> 00:49:10,406 of what some might call 2011 00:49:08,070 --> 00:49:10,406 the "seeker-sensitive movement," 2012 00:49:10,448 --> 00:49:12,909 or the "attractional 2013 00:49:10,448 --> 00:49:12,909 church movement." 2014 00:49:12,949 --> 00:49:14,744 And you have to be careful 2015 00:49:12,949 --> 00:49:14,744 about this 2016 00:49:14,786 --> 00:49:17,371 because the church 2017 00:49:14,786 --> 00:49:17,371 should be attractive. 2018 00:49:17,413 --> 00:49:20,040 But we have to ask, 2019 00:49:17,413 --> 00:49:20,040 "Why is it attractive? 2020 00:49:20,082 --> 00:49:21,751 And to whom is it attractive?" 2021 00:49:21,793 --> 00:49:25,546 The church should be attractive 2022 00:49:21,793 --> 00:49:25,546 because God's people 2023 00:49:25,588 --> 00:49:27,757 have a hunger and a thirst 2024 00:49:27,799 --> 00:49:29,759 and a desire for His word 2025 00:49:29,801 --> 00:49:32,595 being taught and preached. 2026 00:49:32,637 --> 00:49:36,307 And that is a profoundly 2027 00:49:32,637 --> 00:49:36,307 attractive experience 2028 00:49:36,348 --> 00:49:37,516 and a profoundly 2029 00:49:36,348 --> 00:49:37,516 attractive thing 2030 00:49:37,558 --> 00:49:40,185 for someone who is converted, 2031 00:49:40,227 --> 00:49:42,396 who God has changed their heart, 2032 00:49:42,438 --> 00:49:44,231 and they desire those things. 2033 00:49:44,273 --> 00:49:48,277 But the attractional church, 2034 00:49:44,273 --> 00:49:48,277 in the negative sense, 2035 00:49:48,319 --> 00:49:51,238 are those churches 2036 00:49:48,319 --> 00:49:51,238 that seek to make worship 2037 00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:54,199 and make participation 2038 00:49:51,280 --> 00:49:54,199 in the church attractive 2039 00:49:54,241 --> 00:49:55,576 to the unconverted heart, 2040 00:49:55,618 --> 00:49:57,202 to the non-believer. 2041 00:49:57,244 --> 00:49:59,789 So, therefore, the sermon 2042 00:49:57,244 --> 00:49:59,789 becomes less about 2043 00:49:59,831 --> 00:50:02,082 opening up God's word 2044 00:49:59,831 --> 00:50:02,082 and letting it breathe, 2045 00:50:02,124 --> 00:50:05,043 and more about entertaining 2046 00:50:02,124 --> 00:50:05,043 that audience. 2047 00:50:05,085 --> 00:50:07,505 [Mark] So they can present 2048 00:50:05,085 --> 00:50:07,505 messages which downplay 2049 00:50:07,546 --> 00:50:09,214 uncomfortable 2050 00:50:07,546 --> 00:50:09,214 parts of the truth. 2051 00:50:09,256 --> 00:50:12,343 It can simply be a 2052 00:50:09,256 --> 00:50:12,343 "God is love" message, 2053 00:50:12,384 --> 00:50:14,303 where you're careful not 2054 00:50:12,384 --> 00:50:14,303 to define God very biblically, 2055 00:50:14,345 --> 00:50:15,638 or love very biblically. 2056 00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:18,098 Make it sound like 2057 00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:18,098 there's a force 2058 00:50:18,140 --> 00:50:21,686 that approves of whatever you, 2059 00:50:18,140 --> 00:50:21,686 in your innermost being, want. 2060 00:50:21,727 --> 00:50:23,187 Well, that's nothing like God. 2061 00:50:23,228 --> 00:50:24,730 That's actually 2062 00:50:23,228 --> 00:50:24,730 a lot more like Satan. 2063 00:50:24,772 --> 00:50:26,398 There's an assumption 2064 00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:30,068 that unbelievers 2065 00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:30,068 are seeking after God. 2066 00:50:30,110 --> 00:50:32,070 When in reality, 2067 00:50:32,112 --> 00:50:34,072 they're seeking after a God 2068 00:50:32,112 --> 00:50:34,072 of their own choosing. 2069 00:50:34,114 --> 00:50:35,574 Second Timothy, chapter four, 2070 00:50:35,616 --> 00:50:37,284 is really, really clear 2071 00:50:37,326 --> 00:50:39,077 that there would be 2072 00:50:37,326 --> 00:50:39,077 a group of people 2073 00:50:39,119 --> 00:50:40,872 who, wanting to have 2074 00:50:39,119 --> 00:50:40,872 their ears tickled, 2075 00:50:40,913 --> 00:50:42,707 would accumulate for themself 2076 00:50:42,748 --> 00:50:45,417 teachers in accordance 2077 00:50:42,748 --> 00:50:45,417 with their own desires. 2078 00:50:45,459 --> 00:50:47,586 The real Jesus comes 2079 00:50:45,459 --> 00:50:47,586 and He says, 2080 00:50:47,628 --> 00:50:49,338 "I don't want to give you 2081 00:50:47,628 --> 00:50:49,338 the desires of your heart. 2082 00:50:49,380 --> 00:50:52,090 I want to reorient 2083 00:50:49,380 --> 00:50:52,090 the desires of your heart." 2084 00:50:52,132 --> 00:50:55,051 [Justin] 2085 00:50:52,132 --> 00:50:55,051 The prosperity gospel appeals 2086 00:50:55,093 --> 00:50:56,303 to two of the most basic 2087 00:50:56,345 --> 00:50:59,724 and universal of all 2088 00:50:56,345 --> 00:50:59,724 human desires: 2089 00:50:59,765 --> 00:51:01,767 to be wealthy 2090 00:50:59,765 --> 00:51:01,767 and never to be sick. 2091 00:51:01,809 --> 00:51:03,728 Nobody wants to die, 2092 00:51:03,769 --> 00:51:05,563 nobody wants to be sick 2093 00:51:03,769 --> 00:51:05,563 and nobody wants to be poor. 2094 00:51:05,604 --> 00:51:07,439 [Russell] 2095 00:51:05,604 --> 00:51:07,439 All the things that Jesus says 2096 00:51:07,481 --> 00:51:10,192 we have to be willing 2097 00:51:07,481 --> 00:51:10,192 to set aside to follow Him. 2098 00:51:10,234 --> 00:51:12,028 They take all of those things, 2099 00:51:12,068 --> 00:51:15,071 and they make that 2100 00:51:12,068 --> 00:51:15,071 the attraction of the gospel. 2101 00:51:15,113 --> 00:51:16,949 [Piper] 2102 00:51:15,113 --> 00:51:16,949 I don't know what you feel 2103 00:51:16,991 --> 00:51:19,869 about the prosperity gospel, 2104 00:51:19,911 --> 00:51:22,830 the health, wealth, 2105 00:51:19,911 --> 00:51:22,830 and prosperity gospel, 2106 00:51:22,872 --> 00:51:26,667 but I'll tell you what I feel 2107 00:51:22,872 --> 00:51:26,667 about it: hatred. 2108 00:51:26,709 --> 00:51:29,420 [Sean] I'm all alone, 2109 00:51:26,709 --> 00:51:29,420 no friends, 2110 00:51:29,461 --> 00:51:31,881 no fellowship, no church. 2111 00:51:31,923 --> 00:51:33,465 And I click on this video, 2112 00:51:33,507 --> 00:51:37,011 and there's this old man 2113 00:51:33,507 --> 00:51:37,011 with gray hair, 2114 00:51:37,053 --> 00:51:38,303 and he is preaching like 2115 00:51:38,345 --> 00:51:40,056 I have never heard anybody 2116 00:51:38,345 --> 00:51:40,056 preach before, 2117 00:51:40,096 --> 00:51:42,558 handling the word of God 2118 00:51:40,096 --> 00:51:42,558 in the way that I've never seen. 2119 00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:44,435 And I love it. 2120 00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:44,435 And I just want more of it. 2121 00:51:44,476 --> 00:51:47,646 And so I continue to watch 2122 00:51:44,476 --> 00:51:47,646 video after video after video. 2123 00:51:47,688 --> 00:51:49,732 And finally, I come 2124 00:51:47,688 --> 00:51:49,732 to a sermon jam... 2125 00:51:49,774 --> 00:51:52,108 [Piper] And it's being 2126 00:51:49,774 --> 00:51:52,108 exported from this country 2127 00:51:52,150 --> 00:51:54,528 to Africa and Asia... 2128 00:51:54,570 --> 00:51:58,114 selling a bill of goods 2129 00:51:54,570 --> 00:51:58,114 to the poorest of the poor-- 2130 00:51:58,156 --> 00:52:00,451 "Believe this message: 2131 00:52:00,492 --> 00:52:02,578 Your pigs won't die, 2132 00:52:02,620 --> 00:52:04,496 your wife won't have 2133 00:52:02,620 --> 00:52:04,496 miscarriages, 2134 00:52:04,538 --> 00:52:06,749 and you'll have rings 2135 00:52:04,538 --> 00:52:06,749 on your fingers 2136 00:52:06,791 --> 00:52:09,209 and coats on your back." 2137 00:52:09,251 --> 00:52:11,295 That's coming out of America! 2138 00:52:11,336 --> 00:52:14,214 And he begins to talk 2139 00:52:11,336 --> 00:52:14,214 about this "crap called gospel." 2140 00:52:14,256 --> 00:52:16,216 [Piper] People that ought 2141 00:52:14,256 --> 00:52:16,216 to be given our money 2142 00:52:16,258 --> 00:52:18,052 and our time and our lives, 2143 00:52:18,094 --> 00:52:20,304 instead, we're selling them 2144 00:52:18,094 --> 00:52:20,304 a bunch of crap 2145 00:52:20,345 --> 00:52:22,138 called "gospel." 2146 00:52:22,180 --> 00:52:25,434 [on video] And here's 2147 00:52:22,180 --> 00:52:25,434 the reason it is so horrible. 2148 00:52:25,476 --> 00:52:27,143 When was the last time 2149 00:52:27,185 --> 00:52:30,439 that any American, 2150 00:52:27,185 --> 00:52:30,439 African, Asian, 2151 00:52:30,481 --> 00:52:34,944 ever said Jesus 2152 00:52:30,481 --> 00:52:34,944 is all-satisfying 2153 00:52:34,986 --> 00:52:38,196 because you drove a BMW? 2154 00:52:38,238 --> 00:52:41,492 -Never! 2155 00:52:38,238 --> 00:52:41,492 -[Sean] ]And I just thought, 2156 00:52:41,533 --> 00:52:44,120 "This guy doesn't know anything. 2157 00:52:41,533 --> 00:52:44,120 I thought this guy was the man. 2158 00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:45,871 This guy doesn't know anything. 2159 00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:45,871 He's an idiot." 2160 00:52:45,913 --> 00:52:48,791 [Piper] They'll say, 2161 00:52:45,913 --> 00:52:48,791 "Jesus give you that?" 2162 00:52:48,833 --> 00:52:51,335 "Yeah." 2163 00:52:48,833 --> 00:52:51,335 "Well, I'll take Jesus!" 2164 00:52:51,376 --> 00:52:55,047 That's idolatry. 2165 00:52:51,376 --> 00:52:55,047 That's not the gospel. 2166 00:52:55,089 --> 00:52:57,257 The Jesus who's gonna 2167 00:52:55,089 --> 00:52:57,257 help me pay my taxes 2168 00:52:57,299 --> 00:52:59,135 at the end of the year? 2169 00:52:59,175 --> 00:53:01,720 The Jesus who's gonna correct 2170 00:52:59,175 --> 00:53:01,720 my wife's genetic disorder? 2171 00:53:01,762 --> 00:53:02,888 I'll take that Jesus. 2172 00:53:02,930 --> 00:53:04,473 That Jesus sounds great. 2173 00:53:04,515 --> 00:53:06,558 But what that is is idolatry. 2174 00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:10,395 [Russell] It's an elevation 2175 00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:10,395 of the gift above the Giver. 2176 00:53:10,437 --> 00:53:12,648 The prosperity gospel 2177 00:53:12,690 --> 00:53:16,318 is exactly like marrying 2178 00:53:12,690 --> 00:53:16,318 someone for their money. 2179 00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:18,737 Are you coming to God for God? 2180 00:53:18,779 --> 00:53:20,739 Or are you coming to God 2181 00:53:18,779 --> 00:53:20,739 so that you can ultimately get 2182 00:53:20,781 --> 00:53:22,783 what your heart's truly after, 2183 00:53:20,781 --> 00:53:22,783 and that's something else? 2184 00:53:22,825 --> 00:53:25,243 My wife married me 2185 00:53:22,825 --> 00:53:25,243 when I was dirt poor 2186 00:53:25,285 --> 00:53:27,538 and we were living in a 2187 00:53:25,285 --> 00:53:27,538 cockroach-infested apartment. 2188 00:53:27,579 --> 00:53:29,165 I know she loves me 2189 00:53:27,579 --> 00:53:29,165 for me, man. 2190 00:53:29,205 --> 00:53:31,333 It only had to go 2191 00:53:29,205 --> 00:53:31,333 uphill from there. 2192 00:53:31,375 --> 00:53:33,752 The Bible is not against wealth. 2193 00:53:33,794 --> 00:53:35,211 It's not against happiness. 2194 00:53:35,253 --> 00:53:38,298 It's really how do we view 2195 00:53:35,253 --> 00:53:38,298 those things. 2196 00:53:38,340 --> 00:53:41,760 It is true that God 2197 00:53:38,340 --> 00:53:41,760 does want us to be happy. 2198 00:53:41,802 --> 00:53:44,096 But that happiness 2199 00:53:41,802 --> 00:53:44,096 is not the way 2200 00:53:44,138 --> 00:53:46,807 the 21st century American 2201 00:53:44,138 --> 00:53:46,807 culture would define happiness. 2202 00:53:46,849 --> 00:53:50,061 If you're talking to someone 2203 00:53:46,849 --> 00:53:50,061 who's already achieved success, 2204 00:53:50,102 --> 00:53:51,478 they've had the cars, 2205 00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:53,397 the beautiful wife, 2206 00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:53,397 the children. 2207 00:53:53,438 --> 00:53:55,399 They have everything 2208 00:53:53,438 --> 00:53:55,399 that the world says 2209 00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:56,859 you should have to be happy. 2210 00:53:56,901 --> 00:53:58,944 And yet, there's 2211 00:53:56,901 --> 00:53:58,944 something missing. 2212 00:53:58,986 --> 00:54:01,864 [Mike] I was very successful 2213 00:53:58,986 --> 00:54:01,864 in the business world. 2214 00:54:01,906 --> 00:54:06,368 I began as a rocket scientist 2215 00:54:01,906 --> 00:54:06,368 down in Cape Kennedy, Florida. 2216 00:54:06,410 --> 00:54:10,414 Later on, I was recruited 2217 00:54:06,410 --> 00:54:10,414 to a computer firm in Dallas. 2218 00:54:10,455 --> 00:54:12,499 Everything I touched 2219 00:54:10,455 --> 00:54:12,499 turned to gold. 2220 00:54:12,541 --> 00:54:14,585 [Sanj] 2221 00:54:12,541 --> 00:54:14,585 Everything that I had desired 2222 00:54:14,626 --> 00:54:16,336 and that I acquired, 2223 00:54:16,378 --> 00:54:18,047 it had an ending to it. 2224 00:54:18,089 --> 00:54:21,800 Even when I bought my first 2225 00:54:18,089 --> 00:54:21,800 real expensive sports car, 2226 00:54:21,842 --> 00:54:23,301 it wore off. 2227 00:54:23,343 --> 00:54:25,054 I was thinking of the next car. 2228 00:54:25,096 --> 00:54:27,598 And really there was 2229 00:54:25,096 --> 00:54:27,598 an emptiness inside of me 2230 00:54:27,639 --> 00:54:30,434 in spite of everything 2231 00:54:27,639 --> 00:54:30,434 that I had accumulated. 2232 00:54:30,475 --> 00:54:32,644 And so when I met Jesus Christ, 2233 00:54:32,686 --> 00:54:36,565 I found something 2234 00:54:32,686 --> 00:54:36,565 that wouldn't end. 2235 00:54:36,607 --> 00:54:39,944 The ultimate gift of the gospel 2236 00:54:39,985 --> 00:54:43,697 is not all of these 2237 00:54:39,985 --> 00:54:43,697 other things, it's God Himself. 2238 00:54:43,739 --> 00:54:47,785 God is both the giver 2239 00:54:43,739 --> 00:54:47,785 and the gift. 2240 00:54:47,826 --> 00:54:49,870 I think this is what happens 2241 00:54:47,826 --> 00:54:49,870 in our pulpits 2242 00:54:49,912 --> 00:54:51,455 Sunday after Sunday. 2243 00:54:51,496 --> 00:54:53,124 Christ is hidden 2244 00:54:53,165 --> 00:54:54,708 from the American gospel, 2245 00:54:54,750 --> 00:54:57,544 and essentially, 2246 00:54:54,750 --> 00:54:57,544 I think that is the problem. 2247 00:54:57,586 --> 00:55:00,923 Because the gospel is not 2248 00:54:57,586 --> 00:55:00,923 a plan, it's a person. 2249 00:55:00,965 --> 00:55:04,176 The call of the gospel 2250 00:55:00,965 --> 00:55:04,176 is a call to follow Christ. 2251 00:55:04,218 --> 00:55:05,844 And Christ made that call. 2252 00:55:05,886 --> 00:55:07,554 He said, "Follow me." 2253 00:55:07,596 --> 00:55:10,015 Paul makes the call 2254 00:55:07,596 --> 00:55:10,015 in the same way, saying, 2255 00:55:10,057 --> 00:55:12,643 "We preach Christ 2256 00:55:10,057 --> 00:55:12,643 and Him crucified." 2257 00:55:12,684 --> 00:55:16,021 The center of the message 2258 00:55:12,684 --> 00:55:16,021 of both Jesus and Paul 2259 00:55:16,063 --> 00:55:18,857 was Christ Himself, 2260 00:55:16,063 --> 00:55:18,857 Christ, His work, 2261 00:55:18,899 --> 00:55:20,484 and the response that says, 2262 00:55:20,525 --> 00:55:23,821 "I will submit. 2263 00:55:20,525 --> 00:55:23,821 I will follow after Christ." 2264 00:55:23,862 --> 00:55:26,531 [Michael] It is a living, 2265 00:55:23,862 --> 00:55:26,531 vibrant relationship 2266 00:55:26,573 --> 00:55:30,911 with a person that literally 2267 00:55:26,573 --> 00:55:30,911 transforms your life. 2268 00:55:30,953 --> 00:55:32,913 One of the misconceptions 2269 00:55:30,953 --> 00:55:32,913 that we have is thinking 2270 00:55:32,955 --> 00:55:34,539 that salvation is the gospel, 2271 00:55:34,581 --> 00:55:36,959 when really, salvation 2272 00:55:34,581 --> 00:55:36,959 is the result of the gospel. 2273 00:55:37,001 --> 00:55:39,503 And so the good news 2274 00:55:37,001 --> 00:55:39,503 of the gospel is 2275 00:55:39,544 --> 00:55:43,590 not only do you escape 2276 00:55:39,544 --> 00:55:43,590 eternal judgment, 2277 00:55:43,632 --> 00:55:45,217 that's a fringe benefit, 2278 00:55:45,259 --> 00:55:47,011 you get to be restored to God. 2279 00:55:47,052 --> 00:55:48,804 You get to know God as a person. 2280 00:55:48,846 --> 00:55:53,851 You get to fall in love with Him 2281 00:55:48,846 --> 00:55:53,851 and experience His love for you. 2282 00:55:53,892 --> 00:55:56,854 And that is what 2283 00:55:53,892 --> 00:55:56,854 satisfies the heart. 2284 00:55:56,895 --> 00:55:58,438 [Seth] And then the most 2285 00:55:56,895 --> 00:55:58,438 beautiful message 2286 00:55:58,480 --> 00:55:59,648 and truth of the gospel 2287 00:55:59,690 --> 00:56:01,900 is that through Jesus, 2288 00:55:59,690 --> 00:56:01,900 we get God. 2289 00:56:01,942 --> 00:56:05,487 Through Jesus, 2290 00:56:01,942 --> 00:56:05,487 we get to be satisfied in Him. 2291 00:56:05,529 --> 00:56:07,698 [Sean] 2292 00:56:05,529 --> 00:56:07,698 But I was a true sheep. 2293 00:56:07,739 --> 00:56:09,616 I had really been converted. 2294 00:56:09,658 --> 00:56:11,618 And I loved God, 2295 00:56:09,658 --> 00:56:11,618 and I loved His word. 2296 00:56:11,660 --> 00:56:13,704 And I was just confused. 2297 00:56:13,745 --> 00:56:15,413 And the only thing I knew was, 2298 00:56:15,455 --> 00:56:17,916 whatever this guy is doing with 2299 00:56:15,455 --> 00:56:17,916 the Bible, I want more of that. 2300 00:56:17,958 --> 00:56:21,545 So I decided to just kind of 2301 00:56:17,958 --> 00:56:21,545 avoid his other stuff 2302 00:56:21,586 --> 00:56:23,379 about the prosperity gospel. 2303 00:56:23,421 --> 00:56:25,883 But eventually, 2304 00:56:23,421 --> 00:56:25,883 I couldn't avoid it. 2305 00:56:25,924 --> 00:56:28,844 Once I became more grounded 2306 00:56:25,924 --> 00:56:28,844 in the scriptures 2307 00:56:28,886 --> 00:56:30,554 and began to see the 2308 00:56:28,886 --> 00:56:30,554 truth and beauty 2309 00:56:30,595 --> 00:56:32,348 of the biblical gospel, 2310 00:56:32,388 --> 00:56:35,351 the prosperity gospel 2311 00:56:32,388 --> 00:56:35,351 had to bow the knee. 2312 00:56:35,391 --> 00:56:38,478 [Constance] I fell into 2313 00:56:35,391 --> 00:56:38,478 a discipleship course 2314 00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:39,980 at my old church. 2315 00:56:40,022 --> 00:56:42,482 The curriculum was 2316 00:56:40,022 --> 00:56:42,482 by a third-party organization. 2317 00:56:42,524 --> 00:56:45,443 And that's where 2318 00:56:42,524 --> 00:56:45,443 I first heard the gospel, 2319 00:56:45,485 --> 00:56:46,862 and from that program, 2320 00:56:46,904 --> 00:56:48,530 I begin to realize 2321 00:56:46,904 --> 00:56:48,530 that my church 2322 00:56:48,572 --> 00:56:50,574 wasn't teaching the gospel. 2323 00:56:48,572 --> 00:56:50,574 [laughs] 2324 00:56:50,615 --> 00:56:52,617 Wasn't preaching 2325 00:56:50,615 --> 00:56:52,617 the gospel at all. 2326 00:56:52,659 --> 00:56:55,329 It was also a prosperity/ 2327 00:56:52,659 --> 00:56:55,329 Word of Faith church. 2328 00:56:55,371 --> 00:56:58,707 And so, soon after that, 2329 00:56:55,371 --> 00:56:58,707 I left that church. 2330 00:57:01,585 --> 00:57:05,381 [Justin] People always ask me 2331 00:57:01,585 --> 00:57:05,381 how I first became interested 2332 00:57:05,421 --> 00:57:07,883 in this subject matter, 2333 00:57:05,421 --> 00:57:07,883 this movement. 2334 00:57:07,925 --> 00:57:10,510 And it goes back to 2335 00:57:07,925 --> 00:57:10,510 when I was a teenager. 2336 00:57:10,552 --> 00:57:13,097 I was born with cerebral palsy. 2337 00:57:13,138 --> 00:57:16,558 And as a teenager, 2338 00:57:13,138 --> 00:57:16,558 when I was 16 years old, 2339 00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:18,518 a neighbor of mine came up to me 2340 00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:21,063 and he said, "Justin, 2341 00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:21,063 God has spoken to me, 2342 00:57:21,105 --> 00:57:23,565 and He's told me that 2343 00:57:21,105 --> 00:57:23,565 He's going to heal you 2344 00:57:23,607 --> 00:57:25,734 as long as you have 2345 00:57:23,607 --> 00:57:25,734 enough faith." 2346 00:57:25,776 --> 00:57:27,403 And at age 16, 2347 00:57:27,444 --> 00:57:29,696 this is something that really 2348 00:57:27,444 --> 00:57:29,696 resonated with me, 2349 00:57:29,738 --> 00:57:31,698 because I wanted to be able 2350 00:57:31,740 --> 00:57:33,491 to do the things 2351 00:57:31,740 --> 00:57:33,491 that my friends were doing. 2352 00:57:33,533 --> 00:57:36,661 I wanted to be able to run, 2353 00:57:33,533 --> 00:57:36,661 and to play football, 2354 00:57:36,703 --> 00:57:38,496 and all these things that 2355 00:57:36,703 --> 00:57:38,496 I thought were so important 2356 00:57:38,538 --> 00:57:40,165 at that age. 2357 00:57:40,207 --> 00:57:43,585 And he told me about 2358 00:57:40,207 --> 00:57:43,585 a faith healer named Nora Lam, 2359 00:57:43,627 --> 00:57:46,171 who was coming 2360 00:57:43,627 --> 00:57:46,171 to my then-hometown 2361 00:57:46,213 --> 00:57:48,465 of Vicksburg, Mississippi. 2362 00:57:48,506 --> 00:57:50,134 And long story short, 2363 00:57:50,175 --> 00:57:54,012 went to this meeting, 2364 00:57:50,175 --> 00:57:54,012 and obviously, I was not healed. 2365 00:57:54,054 --> 00:57:55,806 Mrs. Lam saw us coming, 2366 00:57:55,847 --> 00:57:59,059 and all of a sudden, 2367 00:57:55,847 --> 00:57:59,059 she decided it was time 2368 00:57:55,847 --> 00:57:59,059 for her to go. 2369 00:57:59,101 --> 00:58:01,853 And so she tried 2370 00:57:59,101 --> 00:58:01,853 to make her exit. 2371 00:58:01,895 --> 00:58:04,856 And my father saw 2372 00:58:01,895 --> 00:58:04,856 what was happening, 2373 00:58:04,898 --> 00:58:07,943 and so he briskly walked up 2374 00:58:04,898 --> 00:58:07,943 to her and stopped her. 2375 00:58:07,985 --> 00:58:09,903 And so this was 2376 00:58:07,985 --> 00:58:09,903 in front of everyone, 2377 00:58:09,945 --> 00:58:12,030 and Mrs. Lam pretty much 2378 00:58:09,945 --> 00:58:12,030 had to turn around. 2379 00:58:12,072 --> 00:58:13,449 She came back, 2380 00:58:13,490 --> 00:58:16,994 and she dipped her finger 2381 00:58:13,490 --> 00:58:16,994 in that oil, 2382 00:58:17,035 --> 00:58:18,370 she touched me on the head. 2383 00:58:18,412 --> 00:58:20,956 And I actually fell backwards. 2384 00:58:20,998 --> 00:58:23,041 Now, looking back on that, 2385 00:58:23,083 --> 00:58:25,502 I know now that 2386 00:58:23,083 --> 00:58:25,502 there was nothing spiritual 2387 00:58:25,543 --> 00:58:27,296 about that at all. 2388 00:58:27,338 --> 00:58:29,714 It's just that we had seen 2389 00:58:27,338 --> 00:58:29,714 everyone else do it. 2390 00:58:29,756 --> 00:58:31,133 -It's all right, it's all right. 2391 00:58:29,756 --> 00:58:31,133 -[girl crying] 2392 00:58:31,175 --> 00:58:33,135 It's all right. 2393 00:58:31,175 --> 00:58:33,135 Baby, it's all right. 2394 00:58:33,177 --> 00:58:34,970 And so subconsciously, 2395 00:58:35,012 --> 00:58:36,221 when you're predisposed to this 2396 00:58:36,263 --> 00:58:37,555 and you've seen 2397 00:58:36,263 --> 00:58:37,555 everyone else do it, 2398 00:58:37,597 --> 00:58:38,723 you do the same thing. 2399 00:58:38,765 --> 00:58:39,933 It's just a matter of 2400 00:58:39,975 --> 00:58:41,893 psychosomatic phenomenon. 2401 00:58:41,935 --> 00:58:43,145 It's mind over body. 2402 00:58:43,187 --> 00:58:44,771 [congregation applauding] 2403 00:58:44,813 --> 00:58:47,107 But then she turned 2404 00:58:44,813 --> 00:58:47,107 to my father, and she said, 2405 00:58:47,149 --> 00:58:49,985 "What is your 2406 00:58:47,149 --> 00:58:49,985 financial situation?" 2407 00:58:50,027 --> 00:58:51,528 And my dad said, 2408 00:58:51,569 --> 00:58:53,238 "Well, what does that 2409 00:58:51,569 --> 00:58:53,238 have to do with anything?" 2410 00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:54,990 And she said, "The more 2411 00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:54,990 money you give 2412 00:58:55,032 --> 00:58:56,658 to the Lord's work, 2413 00:58:56,700 --> 00:58:59,744 the more likely it is 2414 00:58:56,700 --> 00:58:59,744 He will answer your prayers." 2415 00:58:59,786 --> 00:59:02,122 When I let go of something 2416 00:58:59,786 --> 00:59:02,122 in my hand... 2417 00:59:02,164 --> 00:59:03,915 I'm talking about your money. 2418 00:59:03,957 --> 00:59:07,085 ...God always lets go 2419 00:59:03,957 --> 00:59:07,085 of something in His hand. 2420 00:59:07,127 --> 00:59:08,753 Click on that donation button, 2421 00:59:08,795 --> 00:59:12,966 and when you do to sow $1,144... 2422 00:59:13,008 --> 00:59:15,052 [Costi] 2423 00:59:13,008 --> 00:59:15,052 The reason why people teach 2424 00:59:15,093 --> 00:59:17,513 that it's always 2425 00:59:15,093 --> 00:59:17,513 God's will to heal, 2426 00:59:17,554 --> 00:59:19,223 and if He doesn't, 2427 00:59:17,554 --> 00:59:19,223 the problem is them, 2428 00:59:19,264 --> 00:59:21,808 is because that's a good way 2429 00:59:19,264 --> 00:59:21,808 to manipulate people. 2430 00:59:21,850 --> 00:59:24,478 Prosperity theology means money. 2431 00:59:24,520 --> 00:59:27,772 Money... 2432 00:59:27,814 --> 00:59:29,649 cometh to me! 2433 00:59:29,691 --> 00:59:32,944 -Jesus is the banker. 2434 00:59:29,691 --> 00:59:32,944 -Amen. 2435 00:59:32,986 --> 00:59:37,199 [Copeland] Jesus said, 2436 00:59:32,986 --> 00:59:37,199 "Lay up for yourself treasure 2437 00:59:37,241 --> 00:59:38,534 -in heaven." 2438 00:59:37,241 --> 00:59:38,534 -[Todd] Yeah. 2439 00:59:38,575 --> 00:59:41,786 We took our little magic 2440 00:59:38,575 --> 00:59:41,786 religious pencil 2441 00:59:41,828 --> 00:59:43,205 and put right in there, 2442 00:59:43,247 --> 00:59:44,831 and you can't touch it 2443 00:59:43,247 --> 00:59:44,831 till you get here. 2444 00:59:44,873 --> 00:59:46,583 You have treasure in heaven? 2445 00:59:46,624 --> 00:59:48,210 He didn't say 2446 00:59:46,624 --> 00:59:48,210 you couldn't get it out. 2447 00:59:48,252 --> 00:59:50,628 Second Peter 2, 2448 00:59:48,252 --> 00:59:50,628 Peter says it flat out. 2449 00:59:50,670 --> 00:59:53,382 "In their greed," 2450 00:59:50,670 --> 00:59:53,382 "they" meaning false teachers, 2451 00:59:53,424 --> 00:59:55,217 "will exploit you." 2452 00:59:55,259 --> 00:59:59,012 Let's receive our evening 2453 00:59:55,259 --> 00:59:59,012 offering this evening, 2454 00:59:59,054 --> 01:00:02,891 and give you a chance 2455 00:59:59,054 --> 01:00:02,891 to raise your income. 2456 01:00:02,933 --> 01:00:06,478 He said, "We don't give 2457 01:00:02,933 --> 01:00:06,478 to get something back." 2458 01:00:07,854 --> 01:00:10,023 Oh, yes, we do. 2459 01:00:10,065 --> 01:00:12,150 [laughter] 2460 01:00:12,192 --> 01:00:16,238 [Sean] The God we worship 2461 01:00:12,192 --> 01:00:16,238 had no place to rest His head. 2462 01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:17,697 [news anchor] 2463 01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:17,697 You think Jesus Christ 2464 01:00:17,739 --> 01:00:18,823 would have rolled around 2465 01:00:17,739 --> 01:00:18,823 in a Rolls-Royce? 2466 01:00:18,865 --> 01:00:20,409 I think He would've. 2467 01:00:20,451 --> 01:00:23,828 He rode around on a donkey 2468 01:00:20,451 --> 01:00:23,828 that no man ever rode. 2469 01:00:23,870 --> 01:00:26,039 But the preachers that 2470 01:00:23,870 --> 01:00:26,039 are preaching in our pulpits 2471 01:00:26,081 --> 01:00:28,125 are asking for $100 million 2472 01:00:26,081 --> 01:00:28,125 for an airplane. 2473 01:00:28,166 --> 01:00:29,585 I really believe 2474 01:00:29,626 --> 01:00:31,795 that if Jesus was physically 2475 01:00:29,626 --> 01:00:31,795 on Earth today, 2476 01:00:31,836 --> 01:00:33,380 He wouldn't be riding a donkey. 2477 01:00:33,422 --> 01:00:34,798 If I wanna believe God 2478 01:00:34,839 --> 01:00:36,841 for a $65 million plane, 2479 01:00:36,883 --> 01:00:40,011 -you cannot stop me... 2480 01:00:36,883 --> 01:00:40,011 -[crowd cheering] 2481 01:00:40,053 --> 01:00:41,346 Most, if not all, 2482 01:00:41,388 --> 01:00:43,932 of my favorite pastors 2483 01:00:41,388 --> 01:00:43,932 were false teachers. 2484 01:00:43,974 --> 01:00:47,394 I cannot stomach a sermon 2485 01:00:47,436 --> 01:00:50,647 by Joel Osteen 2486 01:00:47,436 --> 01:00:50,647 or T.D. Jakes now. 2487 01:00:50,688 --> 01:00:52,774 I have a visceral reaction. 2488 01:00:52,816 --> 01:00:55,193 "Well, Joel, what about 2489 01:00:52,816 --> 01:00:55,193 their false doctrine? 2490 01:00:55,235 --> 01:00:56,945 What about your false doctrine?" 2491 01:00:56,987 --> 01:01:00,157 Nobody is correct 100%. 2492 01:01:00,198 --> 01:01:02,367 [Constance] And it's funny 2493 01:01:00,198 --> 01:01:02,367 because I used to 2494 01:01:02,409 --> 01:01:04,495 just love them. 2495 01:01:04,536 --> 01:01:05,996 I would listen to Joel Osteen 2496 01:01:04,536 --> 01:01:05,996 on the way to work. 2497 01:01:06,037 --> 01:01:07,831 You know, put my earphones in, 2498 01:01:07,872 --> 01:01:09,249 and it just brightened my day. 2499 01:01:09,291 --> 01:01:11,126 [Trevin] One of the 2500 01:01:09,291 --> 01:01:11,126 the quickest ways 2501 01:01:11,168 --> 01:01:14,546 to spot a counterfeit gospel 2502 01:01:11,168 --> 01:01:14,546 is to ask the question, 2503 01:01:14,588 --> 01:01:16,714 "Who is this gospel about?" 2504 01:01:16,756 --> 01:01:18,634 Is this gospel, 2505 01:01:16,756 --> 01:01:18,634 is this good news 2506 01:01:18,675 --> 01:01:21,553 primarily about you 2507 01:01:18,675 --> 01:01:21,553 and your personal happiness? 2508 01:01:21,595 --> 01:01:22,887 I am happy. 2509 01:01:22,929 --> 01:01:24,431 I am prosperous. 2510 01:01:24,473 --> 01:01:26,850 [Constance] 2511 01:01:24,473 --> 01:01:26,850 You'll hear a lot of phrases 2512 01:01:26,891 --> 01:01:28,143 like "breakthrough." 2513 01:01:28,185 --> 01:01:30,312 "Sow a seed to reap a harvest." 2514 01:01:30,354 --> 01:01:32,814 "Your destiny 2515 01:01:30,354 --> 01:01:32,814 is on the horizon." 2516 01:01:32,856 --> 01:01:34,732 "God called you to be greater." 2517 01:01:34,774 --> 01:01:36,360 "It's your season." 2518 01:01:36,401 --> 01:01:38,403 "Walk in your purpose." 2519 01:01:38,445 --> 01:01:40,447 Of course, "Your best life now." 2520 01:01:40,489 --> 01:01:42,449 Or is this a message about God? 2521 01:01:42,491 --> 01:01:45,076 Yet Christ redeemed us 2522 01:01:45,118 --> 01:01:47,871 from the curse of the law, 2523 01:01:47,912 --> 01:01:50,415 having become a curse for us. 2524 01:01:50,457 --> 01:01:51,958 I am blessed... 2525 01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:54,586 He became a curse. 2526 01:01:54,628 --> 01:01:57,422 [David W. Jones] Joel Osteen, 2527 01:01:54,628 --> 01:01:57,422 in his book, It's Your Time, 2528 01:01:57,464 --> 01:02:00,300 he says this, he says, when 2529 01:01:57,464 --> 01:02:00,300 you're in difficult times, 2530 01:02:00,342 --> 01:02:03,554 it's good to remind God 2531 01:02:00,342 --> 01:02:03,554 what you've done. 2532 01:02:03,595 --> 01:02:05,889 "God, I've kept my family 2533 01:02:03,595 --> 01:02:05,889 in church. 2534 01:02:05,930 --> 01:02:08,975 God, I've gone the extra mile 2535 01:02:05,930 --> 01:02:08,975 to help others. I've given. 2536 01:02:09,017 --> 01:02:11,019 I've served. 2537 01:02:09,017 --> 01:02:11,019 I've been faithful." 2538 01:02:11,061 --> 01:02:13,104 "In your own time of need, 2539 01:02:13,146 --> 01:02:15,857 you should call in 2540 01:02:13,146 --> 01:02:15,857 all these seeds you've sown." 2541 01:02:15,899 --> 01:02:19,986 So it's a softer, kinder, 2542 01:02:15,899 --> 01:02:19,986 gentler version 2543 01:02:20,028 --> 01:02:21,405 of salvation by works. 2544 01:02:21,446 --> 01:02:23,240 [David W. Jones] It kind of 2545 01:02:21,446 --> 01:02:23,240 turns the table 2546 01:02:23,281 --> 01:02:24,782 on true Christian 2547 01:02:23,281 --> 01:02:24,782 service, right? 2548 01:02:24,824 --> 01:02:26,368 Because we would say 2549 01:02:24,824 --> 01:02:26,368 true Christian service 2550 01:02:26,410 --> 01:02:27,952 is supposed to be in reaction 2551 01:02:27,994 --> 01:02:30,247 to what God has done for us, 2552 01:02:30,288 --> 01:02:31,582 in service to Him, 2553 01:02:31,623 --> 01:02:33,917 out of a desire to glorify Him. 2554 01:02:33,958 --> 01:02:35,669 Whereas it seems that 2555 01:02:33,958 --> 01:02:35,669 Joel is saying 2556 01:02:35,711 --> 01:02:37,003 that we ought to serve God 2557 01:02:37,045 --> 01:02:39,130 in order to get 2558 01:02:37,045 --> 01:02:39,130 more credit from God, 2559 01:02:39,172 --> 01:02:42,008 in order then 2560 01:02:39,172 --> 01:02:42,008 to have the ability 2561 01:02:42,050 --> 01:02:43,801 to force God to serve us. 2562 01:02:43,843 --> 01:02:46,597 Or to call in the favors, 2563 01:02:43,843 --> 01:02:46,597 as he says. 2564 01:02:46,638 --> 01:02:48,806 God has you right now 2565 01:02:46,638 --> 01:02:48,806 on the edge of a blessing, 2566 01:02:48,848 --> 01:02:50,100 but there's a catch! 2567 01:02:50,141 --> 01:02:52,436 It's still the law, 2568 01:02:50,141 --> 01:02:52,436 not the gospel. 2569 01:02:52,477 --> 01:02:55,522 The blessing 2570 01:02:52,477 --> 01:02:55,522 will follow obedience. 2571 01:02:55,564 --> 01:02:58,483 [Dr. Horton] That's still law. 2572 01:02:55,564 --> 01:02:58,483 "Do this, and you shall live." 2573 01:02:58,525 --> 01:03:01,236 -And you have to obey, 2574 01:02:58,525 --> 01:03:01,236 and as you obey... 2575 01:02:58,525 --> 01:03:01,236 - [cash register rings] 2576 01:03:01,278 --> 01:03:03,238 God will do it, 2577 01:03:01,278 --> 01:03:03,238 and trigger that prosperity. 2578 01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:04,989 [Dr. Horton] Or "Do this, 2579 01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:04,989 and you shall live better." 2580 01:03:05,031 --> 01:03:06,824 It's not, "Do this 2581 01:03:05,031 --> 01:03:06,824 and you shall live," 2582 01:03:06,866 --> 01:03:08,826 as in not going to hell. 2583 01:03:08,868 --> 01:03:12,247 It's, "Do this, 2584 01:03:08,868 --> 01:03:12,247 and you'll have a happier life." 2585 01:03:12,289 --> 01:03:14,165 People criticize me 2586 01:03:12,289 --> 01:03:14,165 'cause I want people 2587 01:03:14,207 --> 01:03:15,166 to leave church feeling better 2588 01:03:15,208 --> 01:03:16,585 than they were before. 2589 01:03:16,627 --> 01:03:18,169 [Constance] 2590 01:03:16,627 --> 01:03:18,169 Joel Osteen is more about, 2591 01:03:18,211 --> 01:03:19,630 "Yeah, we don't need to talk 2592 01:03:18,211 --> 01:03:19,630 about sin, 2593 01:03:19,671 --> 01:03:21,923 and, you know, hell, 2594 01:03:19,671 --> 01:03:21,923 or the wrath of God, 2595 01:03:21,965 --> 01:03:23,007 or anything like that. 2596 01:03:23,049 --> 01:03:24,384 You know, let's talk about 2597 01:03:24,426 --> 01:03:26,386 how we live 2598 01:03:24,426 --> 01:03:26,386 this Christian life." 2599 01:03:26,428 --> 01:03:29,723 What I would teach would just be 2600 01:03:26,428 --> 01:03:29,723 more "How to live a great life." 2601 01:03:29,765 --> 01:03:31,308 [Dr. Horton] 2602 01:03:29,765 --> 01:03:31,308 And therefore the gospel 2603 01:03:31,349 --> 01:03:34,728 isn't about a rescue 2604 01:03:31,349 --> 01:03:34,728 operation from heaven. 2605 01:03:34,770 --> 01:03:36,146 Rather, it's just 2606 01:03:36,187 --> 01:03:37,397 kind of trivialized 2607 01:03:37,439 --> 01:03:38,982 as empowering us 2608 01:03:39,023 --> 01:03:43,194 to have a better life, 2609 01:03:39,023 --> 01:03:43,194 to become a better you. 2610 01:03:43,236 --> 01:03:44,821 Whereas the good news is, 2611 01:03:44,862 --> 01:03:46,281 God saves me 2612 01:03:46,323 --> 01:03:48,158 because I can't attain 2613 01:03:46,323 --> 01:03:48,158 my best life now. 2614 01:03:48,199 --> 01:03:50,160 God saves me because 2615 01:03:50,201 --> 01:03:51,620 no matter how hard I work 2616 01:03:51,662 --> 01:03:54,498 at becoming a better me, 2617 01:03:54,539 --> 01:03:56,416 I can't pull it off. 2618 01:03:56,458 --> 01:03:58,168 [Justin] The real gospel 2619 01:03:58,209 --> 01:03:59,961 is something more like this, 2620 01:04:00,003 --> 01:04:02,589 "Come to Jesus 2621 01:04:00,003 --> 01:04:02,589 because you're a sinner." 2622 01:04:02,631 --> 01:04:03,799 You don't normally 2623 01:04:02,631 --> 01:04:03,799 talk about sin. 2624 01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:05,175 That's the first time 2625 01:04:05,216 --> 01:04:06,551 I've actually heard you 2626 01:04:05,216 --> 01:04:06,551 spell it out. 2627 01:04:06,593 --> 01:04:08,261 [Justin] 2628 01:04:06,593 --> 01:04:08,261 "And because of your sin, 2629 01:04:08,303 --> 01:04:11,389 the wrath of God 2630 01:04:08,303 --> 01:04:11,389 abides on you." 2631 01:04:11,431 --> 01:04:13,642 Now your fanbase 2632 01:04:11,431 --> 01:04:13,642 is not just Christian, right? 2633 01:04:13,684 --> 01:04:16,394 I understand you have Muslims, 2634 01:04:13,684 --> 01:04:16,394 even atheists. 2635 01:04:16,436 --> 01:04:17,395 How do you explain that? 2636 01:04:17,437 --> 01:04:18,605 [Sean] If a pastor 2637 01:04:18,647 --> 01:04:19,856 can preach 2638 01:04:19,897 --> 01:04:22,275 in such a way that a Muslim 2639 01:04:22,317 --> 01:04:24,110 can sit in that audience 2640 01:04:24,152 --> 01:04:26,196 and hear the sermon 2641 01:04:24,152 --> 01:04:26,196 and not be offended, 2642 01:04:26,237 --> 01:04:27,905 then he is not 2643 01:04:26,237 --> 01:04:27,905 preaching the gospel 2644 01:04:27,947 --> 01:04:29,700 of Christ and Christ crucified. 2645 01:04:29,741 --> 01:04:31,326 Our goal is to 2646 01:04:31,368 --> 01:04:32,910 just help anybody 2647 01:04:31,368 --> 01:04:32,910 from every-- 2648 01:04:32,952 --> 01:04:35,539 any faith 2649 01:04:32,952 --> 01:04:35,539 to improve their life. 2650 01:04:35,580 --> 01:04:37,749 [Dr. Horton] 2651 01:04:35,580 --> 01:04:37,749 What I need is not a makeover. 2652 01:04:37,791 --> 01:04:41,127 What I need is not more paint 2653 01:04:37,791 --> 01:04:41,127 on a dead corpse. 2654 01:04:41,169 --> 01:04:43,338 What I need is a resurrection. 2655 01:04:43,380 --> 01:04:45,841 I need to be made alive 2656 01:04:43,380 --> 01:04:45,841 by the Holy Spirit, 2657 01:04:45,882 --> 01:04:49,010 to embrace a gospel 2658 01:04:45,882 --> 01:04:49,010 that is not about me, 2659 01:04:49,052 --> 01:04:51,012 but is for me. 2660 01:04:51,054 --> 01:04:52,972 [Russell] 2661 01:04:51,054 --> 01:04:52,972 So after my son was born, 2662 01:04:53,014 --> 01:04:55,308 my wife had a lot 2663 01:04:53,014 --> 01:04:55,308 of very serious complications 2664 01:04:55,350 --> 01:04:57,477 from her genetic disorder. 2665 01:04:57,519 --> 01:05:00,104 And she went to Birmingham 2666 01:04:57,519 --> 01:05:00,104 to have a surgery 2667 01:05:00,146 --> 01:05:02,607 that we hoped was gonna fix 2668 01:05:00,146 --> 01:05:02,607 all of her problems. 2669 01:05:02,649 --> 01:05:04,526 [Katherine] 2670 01:05:02,649 --> 01:05:04,526 As we approached the surgery, 2671 01:05:04,568 --> 01:05:06,944 Russell started 2672 01:05:04,568 --> 01:05:06,944 going to church. 2673 01:05:06,986 --> 01:05:09,614 He became interested 2674 01:05:06,986 --> 01:05:09,614 in organized religion, 2675 01:05:09,656 --> 01:05:11,449 which was upsetting to me. 2676 01:05:11,491 --> 01:05:13,326 It was something that I really 2677 01:05:11,491 --> 01:05:13,326 didn't wanna be a part of. 2678 01:05:13,368 --> 01:05:16,329 [Russell] 2679 01:05:13,368 --> 01:05:16,329 Some of my earliest memories 2680 01:05:16,371 --> 01:05:17,914 of thinking about religion 2681 01:05:17,955 --> 01:05:20,083 were arguing with other kids 2682 01:05:17,955 --> 01:05:20,083 in my elementary school 2683 01:05:20,124 --> 01:05:21,752 who were Christians 2684 01:05:21,793 --> 01:05:24,671 and trying to poke holes 2685 01:05:21,793 --> 01:05:24,671 in their faith and mocking them. 2686 01:05:24,713 --> 01:05:26,464 I stayed an atheist, 2687 01:05:26,506 --> 01:05:29,342 or I would sometimes say 2688 01:05:26,506 --> 01:05:29,342 an agnostic, until my 20s. 2689 01:05:29,384 --> 01:05:32,303 I kind of had the whole 2690 01:05:29,384 --> 01:05:32,303 American Dream situation. 2691 01:05:32,345 --> 01:05:33,722 You know, everything that I... 2692 01:05:33,764 --> 01:05:35,724 could have wanted in life, 2693 01:05:33,764 --> 01:05:35,724 I had. 2694 01:05:35,766 --> 01:05:38,101 And yet I was crushed 2695 01:05:38,142 --> 01:05:41,396 with an overwhelming 2696 01:05:38,142 --> 01:05:41,396 sense of sin. 2697 01:05:41,438 --> 01:05:45,734 We were both living 2698 01:05:41,438 --> 01:05:45,734 ultimately for ourselves. 2699 01:05:45,776 --> 01:05:48,152 And I didn't want 2700 01:05:45,776 --> 01:05:48,152 to suffer at all. 2701 01:05:48,194 --> 01:05:51,489 I didn't want to feel even, 2702 01:05:48,194 --> 01:05:51,489 you know, on the pain scale, 2703 01:05:51,531 --> 01:05:53,283 you know, goes zero to ten. 2704 01:05:53,324 --> 01:05:54,992 I didn't wanna feel a three. 2705 01:05:55,034 --> 01:05:58,288 You know, I felt that 2706 01:05:55,034 --> 01:05:58,288 I deserve to feel a zero, 2707 01:05:58,329 --> 01:05:59,997 like I did before. 2708 01:06:00,039 --> 01:06:01,249 [Russell] In the surgery, 2709 01:06:01,291 --> 01:06:03,376 which went well, 2710 01:06:03,418 --> 01:06:07,213 she apparently had a bleed 2711 01:06:03,418 --> 01:06:07,213 that they didn't catch 2712 01:06:07,255 --> 01:06:10,133 and so in recovery, 2713 01:06:07,255 --> 01:06:10,133 they sent her home. 2714 01:06:10,174 --> 01:06:13,010 And she went home 2715 01:06:10,174 --> 01:06:13,010 with an internal bleed that was 2716 01:06:13,052 --> 01:06:15,012 pooling blood in her abdomen. 2717 01:06:16,973 --> 01:06:19,768 We went back to the 2718 01:06:16,973 --> 01:06:19,768 hospital a few days later. 2719 01:06:19,810 --> 01:06:21,227 And they didn't even 2720 01:06:19,810 --> 01:06:21,227 really want to see her because 2721 01:06:21,269 --> 01:06:22,646 they didn't think 2722 01:06:21,269 --> 01:06:22,646 anything was wrong. 2723 01:06:22,687 --> 01:06:25,690 We went in to see 2724 01:06:22,687 --> 01:06:25,690 a nurse practitioner. 2725 01:06:25,732 --> 01:06:27,108 The doctor wasn't gonna see me. 2726 01:06:27,150 --> 01:06:28,944 But I walked in, 2727 01:06:28,985 --> 01:06:31,613 and somehow managed 2728 01:06:28,985 --> 01:06:31,613 to have okay blood pressure. 2729 01:06:31,655 --> 01:06:33,657 My heart rate was okay. 2730 01:06:33,698 --> 01:06:35,492 And I started to 2731 01:06:33,698 --> 01:06:35,492 walk out the door, 2732 01:06:35,533 --> 01:06:37,368 and then the nurse 2733 01:06:35,533 --> 01:06:37,368 practitioner said 2734 01:06:37,410 --> 01:06:39,621 she just felt suddenly 2735 01:06:37,410 --> 01:06:39,621 like a presence 2736 01:06:39,663 --> 01:06:42,165 stop her and say, 2737 01:06:42,206 --> 01:06:43,708 "Look at this girl again." 2738 01:06:43,750 --> 01:06:46,670 And she later said 2739 01:06:43,750 --> 01:06:46,670 she felt like it was God, 2740 01:06:46,711 --> 01:06:48,129 she was a Christian, 2741 01:06:48,171 --> 01:06:49,923 and she believed that-- 2742 01:06:48,171 --> 01:06:49,923 that God wanted her 2743 01:06:49,965 --> 01:06:51,758 to reexamine me. 2744 01:06:51,800 --> 01:06:54,845 [Russell] And at this time, I 2745 01:06:51,800 --> 01:06:54,845 had actually left the hospital, 2746 01:06:54,886 --> 01:06:56,346 thinking the 2747 01:06:54,886 --> 01:06:56,346 appointment was over, 2748 01:06:56,387 --> 01:06:57,764 and went out to get a sandwich. 2749 01:06:57,806 --> 01:07:00,517 And a few minutes later, 2750 01:06:57,806 --> 01:07:00,517 everybody came running. 2751 01:07:00,558 --> 01:07:04,061 And, all of a sudden, 2752 01:07:00,558 --> 01:07:04,061 it was code blue, 2753 01:07:04,103 --> 01:07:05,563 and they were talking about me. 2754 01:07:05,605 --> 01:07:07,440 And I was shocked. 2755 01:07:07,482 --> 01:07:10,109 And I needed five 2756 01:07:07,482 --> 01:07:10,109 blood transfusions 2757 01:07:10,151 --> 01:07:12,696 just to get me 2758 01:07:10,151 --> 01:07:12,696 to a stable point. 2759 01:07:12,737 --> 01:07:15,949 And that still left me 2760 01:07:12,737 --> 01:07:15,949 severely anemic. 2761 01:07:15,991 --> 01:07:18,994 [Russell] Had she gone home 2762 01:07:15,991 --> 01:07:18,994 from that appointment, 2763 01:07:19,035 --> 01:07:20,912 she would have fallen 2764 01:07:19,035 --> 01:07:20,912 asleep in the car 2765 01:07:20,954 --> 01:07:22,831 as we drove back home 2766 01:07:20,954 --> 01:07:22,831 from Birmingham, 2767 01:07:22,873 --> 01:07:24,499 and she would've been dead 2768 01:07:22,873 --> 01:07:24,499 when I pulled in the driveway. 2769 01:07:24,541 --> 01:07:26,042 [Katherine] At that point, 2770 01:07:26,083 --> 01:07:30,087 my son was seven months old 2771 01:07:26,083 --> 01:07:30,087 and my daughter was two. 2772 01:07:30,129 --> 01:07:32,841 And neither one of them 2773 01:07:30,129 --> 01:07:32,841 would've remembered me. 2774 01:07:34,133 --> 01:07:36,678 But instead, I know that... 2775 01:07:36,720 --> 01:07:38,638 God saved my life. 2776 01:07:38,680 --> 01:07:43,393 [Russell] You know, every minute 2777 01:07:38,680 --> 01:07:43,393 of this life is a gift. 2778 01:07:43,434 --> 01:07:45,812 And that's really 2779 01:07:43,434 --> 01:07:45,812 what it showed both of us. 2780 01:07:45,854 --> 01:07:47,438 As I sat there, 2781 01:07:47,480 --> 01:07:49,273 and I watched the blood, 2782 01:07:49,315 --> 01:07:50,441 and they said, "Don't watch. 2783 01:07:50,483 --> 01:07:51,818 You might--you might pass out, 2784 01:07:51,860 --> 01:07:54,070 you might get dizzy," but... 2785 01:07:54,111 --> 01:07:56,531 I watched the blood going in. 2786 01:07:56,573 --> 01:07:59,367 Because I was so joyful 2787 01:07:59,409 --> 01:08:01,369 and I had so much peace. 2788 01:08:01,411 --> 01:08:05,248 And I believe that's when 2789 01:08:01,411 --> 01:08:05,248 our lives started to change. 2790 01:08:05,289 --> 01:08:07,500 And in the weeks 2791 01:08:05,289 --> 01:08:07,500 and months afterwards, 2792 01:08:07,542 --> 01:08:10,754 I needed God to get 2793 01:08:07,542 --> 01:08:10,754 me through every minute, 2794 01:08:10,795 --> 01:08:14,674 every second, every hour 2795 01:08:10,795 --> 01:08:14,674 of every day. 2796 01:08:14,716 --> 01:08:17,928 [Justin] We hear the gospel 2797 01:08:14,716 --> 01:08:17,928 presented this way so often, 2798 01:08:17,969 --> 01:08:21,222 "God loves you and has 2799 01:08:17,969 --> 01:08:21,222 a wonderful plan for your life." 2800 01:08:21,264 --> 01:08:22,766 Is that true? 2801 01:08:22,807 --> 01:08:24,768 Well, yes. God does love us, 2802 01:08:24,809 --> 01:08:27,812 and He does have wonderful plans 2803 01:08:24,809 --> 01:08:27,812 for our lives. 2804 01:08:27,854 --> 01:08:31,024 God had a wonderful plan 2805 01:08:27,854 --> 01:08:31,024 for Stephen's life. 2806 01:08:31,066 --> 01:08:32,567 The wonderful plan that God had 2807 01:08:32,609 --> 01:08:34,444 for Stephen's life 2808 01:08:32,609 --> 01:08:34,444 was to be stoned. 2809 01:08:34,485 --> 01:08:37,363 The wonderful plan that God had 2810 01:08:34,485 --> 01:08:37,363 for the apostle Peter's life 2811 01:08:37,405 --> 01:08:40,157 was to be crucified 2812 01:08:37,405 --> 01:08:40,157 upside down. 2813 01:08:40,199 --> 01:08:41,576 [Dr. Horton] 2814 01:08:40,199 --> 01:08:41,576 People think, basically, 2815 01:08:41,618 --> 01:08:43,369 that religion is there 2816 01:08:43,411 --> 01:08:44,704 to boost your ego, 2817 01:08:44,746 --> 01:08:47,248 make you happy, 2818 01:08:44,746 --> 01:08:47,248 make you more successful, 2819 01:08:47,290 --> 01:08:48,708 make life go well. 2820 01:08:48,750 --> 01:08:51,086 My brother committed suicide. 2821 01:08:51,127 --> 01:08:53,421 My mother, 2822 01:08:51,127 --> 01:08:53,421 a year and a half later, 2823 01:08:53,463 --> 01:08:55,548 had her home, 2824 01:08:53,463 --> 01:08:55,548 which was our childhood home, 2825 01:08:55,590 --> 01:08:57,258 destroyed in a tornado. 2826 01:08:57,300 --> 01:08:59,302 [Katherine] All of these 2827 01:08:57,300 --> 01:08:59,302 things that were happening, 2828 01:08:59,343 --> 01:09:01,345 instead of making us upset, 2829 01:09:01,387 --> 01:09:04,348 they were bringing us 2830 01:09:01,387 --> 01:09:04,348 together as a couple, 2831 01:09:04,390 --> 01:09:08,853 and also as two people 2832 01:09:04,390 --> 01:09:08,853 growing in their faith. 2833 01:09:08,895 --> 01:09:11,314 You know, I started to go 2834 01:09:08,895 --> 01:09:11,314 to church with Russell. 2835 01:09:11,355 --> 01:09:13,817 We started to read 2836 01:09:11,355 --> 01:09:13,817 the Bible together. 2837 01:09:13,858 --> 01:09:16,235 These things that I would 2838 01:09:13,858 --> 01:09:16,235 have seen as, you know, 2839 01:09:16,277 --> 01:09:20,865 an angry God, or the world 2840 01:09:16,277 --> 01:09:20,865 lashing out at me and my family, 2841 01:09:20,907 --> 01:09:25,453 instead I saw just ways that-- 2842 01:09:20,907 --> 01:09:25,453 that God was doing good. 2843 01:09:25,495 --> 01:09:28,748 And I was eternally thankful 2844 01:09:28,790 --> 01:09:30,917 for things that I would 2845 01:09:28,790 --> 01:09:30,917 have hated before. 2846 01:09:30,959 --> 01:09:32,752 [Justin] The wonderful plan 2847 01:09:30,959 --> 01:09:32,752 that God had 2848 01:09:32,794 --> 01:09:34,671 for the apostle Paul's life 2849 01:09:34,712 --> 01:09:36,673 was to be shipwrecked, stoned, 2850 01:09:36,714 --> 01:09:38,341 imprisoned, beaten, 2851 01:09:38,382 --> 01:09:40,259 and ultimately beheaded. 2852 01:09:40,301 --> 01:09:42,553 I'm strong, I'm healthy. 2853 01:09:42,595 --> 01:09:44,263 I'm blessed, I'm favored. 2854 01:09:44,305 --> 01:09:46,516 I am a victor, not a victim. 2855 01:09:46,557 --> 01:09:50,103 I'm gonna live a long, 2856 01:09:46,557 --> 01:09:50,103 productive, faith-filled life. 2857 01:09:50,145 --> 01:09:52,689 In terms of biblical 2858 01:09:50,145 --> 01:09:52,689 Christianity, 2859 01:09:52,730 --> 01:09:56,026 Christianity is about dying. 2860 01:09:56,067 --> 01:09:58,235 "Jesus told His disciples, 2861 01:09:58,277 --> 01:10:00,196 'If anyone would come after Me, 2862 01:10:00,237 --> 01:10:02,239 let him deny himself, 2863 01:10:02,281 --> 01:10:05,743 and take up his cross 2864 01:10:02,281 --> 01:10:05,743 and follow Me.'" 2865 01:10:05,785 --> 01:10:07,662 What Jesus is saying there 2866 01:10:07,704 --> 01:10:10,456 is that it's going to be hard. 2867 01:10:10,498 --> 01:10:13,292 That it's going to be heavy. 2868 01:10:10,498 --> 01:10:13,292 [chuckles] 2869 01:10:13,334 --> 01:10:16,546 And that you may lose your life 2870 01:10:16,587 --> 01:10:19,465 for what you believe. 2871 01:10:19,507 --> 01:10:22,052 [Matt] 2872 01:10:19,507 --> 01:10:22,052 Christianity has been built 2873 01:10:22,093 --> 01:10:24,470 and has carried 2874 01:10:22,093 --> 01:10:24,470 through the generations 2875 01:10:24,512 --> 01:10:27,140 on the blood of men-- 2876 01:10:27,182 --> 01:10:29,184 not on the wealth! 2877 01:10:29,225 --> 01:10:32,436 [Sean] Anybody who says 2878 01:10:29,225 --> 01:10:32,436 that Jesus came and died 2879 01:10:32,478 --> 01:10:34,397 to make us happy, 2880 01:10:32,478 --> 01:10:34,397 healthy, and wealthy 2881 01:10:34,438 --> 01:10:36,232 is preaching a false gospel. 2882 01:10:36,273 --> 01:10:37,734 Jesus saved me. 2883 01:10:37,775 --> 01:10:39,610 I was on the path to hell, 2884 01:10:39,652 --> 01:10:41,988 He snatched me out 2885 01:10:39,652 --> 01:10:41,988 of the flames 2886 01:10:42,030 --> 01:10:43,364 and He saved me from my sin. 2887 01:10:43,406 --> 01:10:45,491 So how can I just continue 2888 01:10:43,406 --> 01:10:45,491 to live my life 2889 01:10:45,533 --> 01:10:47,577 as if this isn't true? 2890 01:10:47,618 --> 01:10:50,747 So I abandoned my version 2891 01:10:47,618 --> 01:10:50,747 of the American Dream, 2892 01:10:50,788 --> 01:10:53,124 and I said, 2893 01:10:50,788 --> 01:10:53,124 "I will do what I can 2894 01:10:53,166 --> 01:10:55,501 to take the gospel 2895 01:10:53,166 --> 01:10:55,501 to the nations." 2896 01:10:55,543 --> 01:10:58,421 Me and my wife 2897 01:10:55,543 --> 01:10:58,421 sold everything that we owned, 2898 01:10:58,462 --> 01:11:01,007 and we took our savings, 2899 01:10:58,462 --> 01:11:01,007 and we jumped on an airplane 2900 01:11:01,049 --> 01:11:02,675 with our six-month-old baby 2901 01:11:02,717 --> 01:11:04,594 to take the gospel 2902 01:11:04,635 --> 01:11:07,555 to the unreached peoples 2903 01:11:04,635 --> 01:11:07,555 of the Amazon basin in Peru. 2904 01:11:07,597 --> 01:11:09,348 We spent four years there, 2905 01:11:09,390 --> 01:11:11,059 three of those in the jungle, 2906 01:11:11,101 --> 01:11:14,104 learned the language, 2907 01:11:11,101 --> 01:11:14,104 tried to adapt to the culture, 2908 01:11:14,145 --> 01:11:15,479 tried to take the gospel 2909 01:11:15,521 --> 01:11:16,898 to some of the tribal 2910 01:11:15,521 --> 01:11:16,898 peoples in that area, 2911 01:11:16,940 --> 01:11:18,649 and tried to 2912 01:11:16,940 --> 01:11:18,649 build up the church 2913 01:11:18,691 --> 01:11:21,778 that already existed 2914 01:11:18,691 --> 01:11:21,778 in some of these villages. 2915 01:11:21,819 --> 01:11:23,613 And so what I saw was that 2916 01:11:23,654 --> 01:11:25,740 on a scale from 2917 01:11:23,654 --> 01:11:25,740 completely heretical 2918 01:11:25,782 --> 01:11:28,243 to just generally 2919 01:11:25,782 --> 01:11:28,243 unhealthy churches, 2920 01:11:28,284 --> 01:11:30,954 are going down 2921 01:11:28,284 --> 01:11:30,954 to the jungles of Peru 2922 01:11:30,995 --> 01:11:32,914 where they are trying 2923 01:11:30,995 --> 01:11:32,914 to duplicate 2924 01:11:32,956 --> 01:11:36,876 their unhealthy churches 2925 01:11:32,956 --> 01:11:36,876 in other parts of the world. 2926 01:11:36,918 --> 01:11:39,879 So, what that may look like 2927 01:11:36,918 --> 01:11:39,879 is a church 2928 01:11:39,921 --> 01:11:41,131 that goes into a village 2929 01:11:41,172 --> 01:11:44,759 and throws $250,000 2930 01:11:41,172 --> 01:11:44,759 worth of goods 2931 01:11:44,801 --> 01:11:47,095 and medical treatment 2932 01:11:44,801 --> 01:11:47,095 at their people, 2933 01:11:47,137 --> 01:11:50,848 but offer nothing 2934 01:11:47,137 --> 01:11:50,848 in the way of eternal hope. 2935 01:11:50,890 --> 01:11:54,060 It's good deeds, not good news. 2936 01:11:54,102 --> 01:11:57,021 These people that you 2937 01:11:54,102 --> 01:11:57,021 are sending out of your church 2938 01:11:57,063 --> 01:11:59,398 or that you are supporting... 2939 01:11:59,440 --> 01:12:01,234 what do they teach? 2940 01:12:01,276 --> 01:12:04,028 Are you sending down people 2941 01:12:01,276 --> 01:12:04,028 who are sowing seeds 2942 01:12:04,070 --> 01:12:05,696 of false gospel 2943 01:12:05,738 --> 01:12:07,740 in nations that have no gospel? 2944 01:12:07,782 --> 01:12:10,785 And that's what I was doing. 2945 01:12:07,782 --> 01:12:10,785 That's what I was a part of. 2946 01:12:10,827 --> 01:12:12,787 -You fly in a private plane. 2947 01:12:10,827 --> 01:12:12,787 -Yes, I do. 2948 01:12:12,829 --> 01:12:14,038 You're staying right now 2949 01:12:12,829 --> 01:12:14,038 in one of the fanciest hotels 2950 01:12:14,080 --> 01:12:15,539 -in New York City. 2951 01:12:14,080 --> 01:12:15,539 -Yes, I am. 2952 01:12:15,581 --> 01:12:17,834 -You wear very nice clothing. 2953 01:12:15,581 --> 01:12:17,834 -Nice clothes. 2954 01:12:17,875 --> 01:12:21,045 I had undershirts 2955 01:12:17,875 --> 01:12:21,045 that were Versace. 2956 01:12:21,087 --> 01:12:24,465 And I wore a Breitling watch 2957 01:12:21,087 --> 01:12:24,465 that was worth $10,000. 2958 01:12:24,507 --> 01:12:26,383 And whatever I wanted, 2959 01:12:24,507 --> 01:12:26,383 it was mine. 2960 01:12:26,425 --> 01:12:29,012 So do you not have 2961 01:12:26,425 --> 01:12:29,012 any misgivings about that? 2962 01:12:29,053 --> 01:12:30,096 No! 2963 01:12:30,138 --> 01:12:31,639 And the shame that I have felt 2964 01:12:31,681 --> 01:12:33,766 over the last few years 2965 01:12:31,681 --> 01:12:33,766 coming out of it 2966 01:12:33,808 --> 01:12:35,226 has been immense. 2967 01:12:35,268 --> 01:12:38,771 My cars have been everything 2968 01:12:35,268 --> 01:12:38,771 from BMWs to a Benz. 2969 01:12:38,813 --> 01:12:40,982 But my favorite car 2970 01:12:38,813 --> 01:12:40,982 was a black Hummer. 2971 01:12:41,024 --> 01:12:43,860 It was an H2. 2972 01:12:41,024 --> 01:12:43,860 I was literally 21 years old. 2973 01:12:43,901 --> 01:12:46,403 It had TVs in it, 2974 01:12:43,901 --> 01:12:46,403 the chrome package, 2975 01:12:46,445 --> 01:12:48,031 big 22-inch rims. 2976 01:12:48,072 --> 01:12:50,074 My car payment was 2977 01:12:48,072 --> 01:12:50,074 a thousand dollars a month 2978 01:12:50,116 --> 01:12:51,534 just because we could afford it. 2979 01:12:51,575 --> 01:12:53,077 I'm gonna ask many 2980 01:12:51,575 --> 01:12:53,077 of you tonight 2981 01:12:53,119 --> 01:12:54,996 to sow a thousand dollars 2982 01:12:55,038 --> 01:12:56,831 in faith-expecting property. 2983 01:12:56,873 --> 01:12:59,834 [Costi] Our home 2984 01:12:56,873 --> 01:12:59,834 was 10,000 square feet, 2985 01:12:59,876 --> 01:13:01,085 the one up north. 2986 01:13:01,127 --> 01:13:03,338 Our second home 2987 01:13:01,127 --> 01:13:03,338 in Southern California 2988 01:13:03,379 --> 01:13:05,006 was a $2 million home 2989 01:13:05,048 --> 01:13:06,590 that overlooked the ocean. 2990 01:13:06,632 --> 01:13:08,384 This is our, 2991 01:13:08,425 --> 01:13:10,761 I guess, you could say, like, 2992 01:13:08,425 --> 01:13:10,761 back porch 2993 01:13:10,803 --> 01:13:12,138 sort of thing. 2994 01:13:12,180 --> 01:13:14,098 All right, so I have 2995 01:13:12,180 --> 01:13:14,098 my trusty bucket. 2996 01:13:14,140 --> 01:13:15,892 And I have the well here. 2997 01:13:17,018 --> 01:13:18,644 And this is what 2998 01:13:17,018 --> 01:13:18,644 we're gonna be using 2999 01:13:18,686 --> 01:13:22,357 to get our drinking, 3000 01:13:18,686 --> 01:13:22,357 and bathing, and cleaning water. 3001 01:13:22,398 --> 01:13:25,026 You know, there's this idea, 3002 01:13:22,398 --> 01:13:25,026 supposedly, 3003 01:13:25,068 --> 01:13:27,737 that we preachers 3004 01:13:25,068 --> 01:13:27,737 are supposed to 3005 01:13:27,778 --> 01:13:29,655 walk about with sandals 3006 01:13:29,697 --> 01:13:31,199 and ride bicycles. 3007 01:13:29,697 --> 01:13:31,199 That's nonsense. 3008 01:13:31,241 --> 01:13:33,826 [Costi] 3009 01:13:31,241 --> 01:13:33,826 I flew on a G4, a G5. 3010 01:13:33,868 --> 01:13:34,869 We ate the finest foods, 3011 01:13:34,911 --> 01:13:36,371 the best restaurants. 3012 01:13:36,412 --> 01:13:40,083 We stayed in hotels upwards 3013 01:13:36,412 --> 01:13:40,083 of $20,000 a night. 3014 01:13:40,124 --> 01:13:41,584 One was in the Middle East, 3015 01:13:40,124 --> 01:13:41,584 in Dubai, 3016 01:13:41,625 --> 01:13:43,378 called the Burj Al Arab. 3017 01:13:43,419 --> 01:13:45,838 And it's the hotel 3018 01:13:43,419 --> 01:13:45,838 that's shaped like a sail. 3019 01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:50,176 We were picked up in three white 3020 01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:50,176 Bentleys and driven there. 3021 01:13:50,218 --> 01:13:51,844 Every room is a suite. 3022 01:13:51,886 --> 01:13:52,845 We stayed in the Royal Suite. 3023 01:13:52,887 --> 01:13:54,638 There was gold everywhere. 3024 01:13:54,680 --> 01:13:56,974 And I'll never forget 3025 01:13:54,680 --> 01:13:56,974 the experience. 3026 01:13:57,016 --> 01:13:59,810 [Amber] And this is our shower. 3027 01:13:59,852 --> 01:14:02,563 You just kinda dump it 3028 01:13:59,852 --> 01:14:02,563 over your head and bathe, 3029 01:14:02,605 --> 01:14:03,773 and dump it over your head. 3030 01:14:03,814 --> 01:14:04,982 And that's it. 3031 01:14:05,024 --> 01:14:06,650 I think another difficulty 3032 01:14:06,692 --> 01:14:08,652 is just living in the jungle. 3033 01:14:08,694 --> 01:14:12,573 I mean, it's always hot. 3034 01:14:08,694 --> 01:14:12,573 There's always bugs. 3035 01:14:12,615 --> 01:14:15,534 I found myself negotiating 3036 01:14:12,615 --> 01:14:15,534 with the bugs. 3037 01:14:15,576 --> 01:14:18,662 "Bugs, listen. 3038 01:14:15,576 --> 01:14:18,662 I'll let you bite me 3039 01:14:18,704 --> 01:14:20,123 twice as much tomorrow, 3040 01:14:20,164 --> 01:14:22,875 if you just don't bite me 3041 01:14:20,164 --> 01:14:22,875 at all today." 3042 01:14:22,917 --> 01:14:24,919 Spiders everywhere you turn. 3043 01:14:24,961 --> 01:14:26,545 I'm not used to that kind 3044 01:14:24,961 --> 01:14:26,545 of stuff. I'm from the city. 3045 01:14:26,587 --> 01:14:29,590 [Costi] Another hotel 3046 01:14:26,587 --> 01:14:29,590 that sticks out in my mind 3047 01:14:29,632 --> 01:14:32,969 is called the Grand Resort 3048 01:14:29,632 --> 01:14:32,969 Lagonissi. It's in Greece. 3049 01:14:33,010 --> 01:14:36,806 And ironically, it's set 3050 01:14:33,010 --> 01:14:36,806 on the Aegean Sea. 3051 01:14:36,847 --> 01:14:39,142 I had my own suite. 3052 01:14:36,847 --> 01:14:39,142 I had my own pool. 3053 01:14:39,183 --> 01:14:42,061 And there I stood every day 3054 01:14:39,183 --> 01:14:42,061 looking out over the Aegean Sea. 3055 01:14:42,103 --> 01:14:43,938 If you know your Bible at all, 3056 01:14:43,980 --> 01:14:47,733 Paul sailed the Aegean Sea 3057 01:14:43,980 --> 01:14:47,733 on many missionary journeys. 3058 01:14:47,775 --> 01:14:50,611 And so here I am, Word of Faith, 3059 01:14:47,775 --> 01:14:50,611 prosperity kid, 3060 01:14:50,653 --> 01:14:52,863 looking out where Paul 3061 01:14:50,653 --> 01:14:52,863 was shipwrecked, 3062 01:14:52,905 --> 01:14:54,198 where he went through 3063 01:14:54,240 --> 01:14:56,492 literally chaos 3064 01:14:54,240 --> 01:14:56,492 and hell on Earth 3065 01:14:56,533 --> 01:14:58,619 just to get the gospel 3066 01:14:56,533 --> 01:14:58,619 out to people. 3067 01:14:58,661 --> 01:15:00,830 And now I'm staying 3068 01:14:58,661 --> 01:15:00,830 in five-star hotels, 3069 01:15:00,871 --> 01:15:04,167 preaching the same Jesus, 3070 01:15:00,871 --> 01:15:04,167 I thought, as Paul. 3071 01:15:04,208 --> 01:15:06,336 I didn't know that I was 3072 01:15:04,208 --> 01:15:06,336 being deceived. 3073 01:15:06,377 --> 01:15:07,878 Of course, when you're being 3074 01:15:06,377 --> 01:15:07,878 deceived, you don't know it. 3075 01:15:07,920 --> 01:15:10,673 And I-I think that was probably 3076 01:15:10,714 --> 01:15:14,010 the time in my life where I was 3077 01:15:10,714 --> 01:15:14,010 the most depressed. 3078 01:15:14,051 --> 01:15:15,552 My encouragement 3079 01:15:15,594 --> 01:15:18,889 is never say negative things 3080 01:15:15,594 --> 01:15:18,889 about yourself. 3081 01:15:18,931 --> 01:15:20,766 I was taught 3082 01:15:18,931 --> 01:15:20,766 that there was power 3083 01:15:20,808 --> 01:15:23,478 in the things that I said 3084 01:15:20,808 --> 01:15:23,478 to bring things into existence. 3085 01:15:23,519 --> 01:15:25,229 I am young. I am beautiful. 3086 01:15:25,271 --> 01:15:26,772 I am attractive. 3087 01:15:26,814 --> 01:15:29,608 Remember, 3088 01:15:26,814 --> 01:15:29,608 what follows the "I am" 3089 01:15:29,650 --> 01:15:31,319 is going to come 3090 01:15:29,650 --> 01:15:31,319 looking for you. 3091 01:15:31,361 --> 01:15:34,489 [David W. Jones] 3092 01:15:31,361 --> 01:15:34,489 God's the great "I am." 3093 01:15:34,530 --> 01:15:36,782 We're the great "I'm nots." 3094 01:15:36,824 --> 01:15:38,909 But we think 3095 01:15:36,824 --> 01:15:38,909 we're the great "I am." 3096 01:15:38,951 --> 01:15:40,619 We think it's about us. 3097 01:15:40,661 --> 01:15:42,121 [Copeland, on recording] 3098 01:15:44,415 --> 01:15:46,042 [congregation] Amen! 3099 01:15:46,083 --> 01:15:48,378 [David] At the heart 3100 01:15:46,083 --> 01:15:48,378 of the prosperity gospel, 3101 01:15:48,419 --> 01:15:50,046 the Word of Faith movement, 3102 01:15:50,087 --> 01:15:51,964 is this doctrine called 3103 01:15:50,087 --> 01:15:51,964 the "Little gods" doctrine. 3104 01:15:52,006 --> 01:15:53,716 [Copeland, no recording] 3105 01:15:57,387 --> 01:16:00,139 You are God's little G. 3106 01:16:00,181 --> 01:16:03,684 He is big G, 3107 01:16:00,181 --> 01:16:03,684 and you are little G. 3108 01:16:03,726 --> 01:16:05,102 You're a little G god. 3109 01:16:05,144 --> 01:16:07,230 Little god theology plays off 3110 01:16:07,271 --> 01:16:10,233 the Genesis 1, 2, and 3. 3111 01:16:10,274 --> 01:16:12,235 If you look at Creation 3112 01:16:10,274 --> 01:16:12,235 and the Fall, 3113 01:16:12,276 --> 01:16:14,737 the description of Man 3114 01:16:12,276 --> 01:16:14,737 as being in the image of God, 3115 01:16:14,778 --> 01:16:16,113 in right fellowship 3116 01:16:16,155 --> 01:16:18,324 and communion 3117 01:16:16,155 --> 01:16:18,324 with God in the garden... 3118 01:16:18,366 --> 01:16:20,159 Now, that's interesting, 3119 01:16:18,366 --> 01:16:20,159 because if everything 3120 01:16:20,201 --> 01:16:22,703 produces after its own kind, 3121 01:16:22,745 --> 01:16:25,331 we now see God producing man. 3122 01:16:27,291 --> 01:16:29,085 One of the foundational 3123 01:16:27,291 --> 01:16:29,085 assumptions 3124 01:16:29,126 --> 01:16:31,712 or doctrinal premises, 3125 01:16:29,126 --> 01:16:31,712 if you will, 3126 01:16:31,754 --> 01:16:33,214 of the Word of Faith movement 3127 01:16:33,256 --> 01:16:36,592 is this idea of trichotomy, 3128 01:16:36,633 --> 01:16:38,719 that human beings 3129 01:16:36,633 --> 01:16:38,719 are fundamentally 3130 01:16:38,761 --> 01:16:39,929 threefold in nature. 3131 01:16:39,970 --> 01:16:42,181 That they have a soul 3132 01:16:39,970 --> 01:16:42,181 and a body, 3133 01:16:42,223 --> 01:16:45,851 but that essentially, 3134 01:16:42,223 --> 01:16:45,851 human beings are spirits. 3135 01:16:45,893 --> 01:16:47,228 You are a spirit, 3136 01:16:47,270 --> 01:16:48,896 you have a soul, 3137 01:16:48,938 --> 01:16:53,150 and you live in-- you-- 3138 01:16:48,938 --> 01:16:53,150 live in a physical body. 3139 01:16:53,192 --> 01:16:56,237 [Robert] And as spirits, 3140 01:16:53,192 --> 01:16:56,237 they are in the same class 3141 01:16:56,279 --> 01:16:58,364 or category of being as God. 3142 01:16:58,406 --> 01:17:00,116 [Copeland, on recording] 3143 01:17:07,123 --> 01:17:09,250 [Robert] And like God, 3144 01:17:07,123 --> 01:17:09,250 as a spirit, 3145 01:17:09,292 --> 01:17:13,087 we can call into existence 3146 01:17:09,292 --> 01:17:13,087 what we say. 3147 01:17:13,129 --> 01:17:14,630 We serve a God 3148 01:17:14,671 --> 01:17:17,300 who calls things 3149 01:17:14,671 --> 01:17:17,300 that do not exist 3150 01:17:17,341 --> 01:17:19,302 as if they already existed. 3151 01:17:19,343 --> 01:17:22,888 [Justin] We just make 3152 01:17:19,343 --> 01:17:22,888 positive confessions, 3153 01:17:22,930 --> 01:17:24,765 and then those 3154 01:17:22,930 --> 01:17:24,765 positive confessions 3155 01:17:24,807 --> 01:17:27,935 will then turn 3156 01:17:24,807 --> 01:17:27,935 into physical reality. 3157 01:17:27,977 --> 01:17:30,687 So that's how powerful 3158 01:17:27,977 --> 01:17:30,687 your words are. 3159 01:17:30,729 --> 01:17:33,065 Your words have created power. 3160 01:17:33,107 --> 01:17:35,526 [Robert] Just as God 3161 01:17:33,107 --> 01:17:35,526 made the world 3162 01:17:35,568 --> 01:17:38,737 by speaking words of faith, 3163 01:17:35,568 --> 01:17:38,737 according to these teachers, 3164 01:17:38,779 --> 01:17:41,657 we can, essentially, 3165 01:17:38,779 --> 01:17:41,657 bring into reality 3166 01:17:41,698 --> 01:17:45,620 or bring into expression what we 3167 01:17:41,698 --> 01:17:45,620 are hoping for, what we want, 3168 01:17:45,661 --> 01:17:47,746 because we're the same kind 3169 01:17:45,661 --> 01:17:47,746 of being as God. 3170 01:17:47,788 --> 01:17:51,626 [Sean] I was absolutely 3171 01:17:47,788 --> 01:17:51,626 beyond broke, 3172 01:17:51,667 --> 01:17:54,878 and pulled out the ATM receipt 3173 01:17:51,667 --> 01:17:54,878 when they told me 3174 01:17:54,920 --> 01:17:56,506 that I didn't have enough money 3175 01:17:54,920 --> 01:17:56,506 to make a withdrawal. 3176 01:17:56,547 --> 01:17:59,049 And I rebuked that receipt 3177 01:17:56,547 --> 01:17:59,049 in the name of Jesus 3178 01:17:59,091 --> 01:18:01,718 and I proclaimed 3179 01:17:59,091 --> 01:18:01,718 my victory over Satan 3180 01:18:01,760 --> 01:18:03,596 and his lies 3181 01:18:01,760 --> 01:18:03,596 about me being broke. 3182 01:18:03,638 --> 01:18:05,431 [Marilyn Hickey, on tape] 3183 01:18:10,686 --> 01:18:12,563 Looking back now, 3184 01:18:12,605 --> 01:18:15,065 it's funny and you kinda have 3185 01:18:12,605 --> 01:18:15,065 to laugh so you don't cry 3186 01:18:15,107 --> 01:18:16,733 because of how pathetic it was. 3187 01:18:16,775 --> 01:18:20,196 Now let's read it, 3188 01:18:16,775 --> 01:18:20,196 and let's make bold confession. 3189 01:18:20,237 --> 01:18:23,449 [congregation reads along] 3190 01:18:20,237 --> 01:18:23,449 "As we receive today's offering, 3191 01:18:23,491 --> 01:18:26,076 we are believing the Lord for: 3192 01:18:26,118 --> 01:18:30,289 jobs and better jobs, 3193 01:18:26,118 --> 01:18:30,289 raises and bonuses..." 3194 01:18:30,331 --> 01:18:32,708 [Justin] Of course, 3195 01:18:30,331 --> 01:18:32,708 this is very unbiblical 3196 01:18:32,749 --> 01:18:36,962 because only God can speak 3197 01:18:32,749 --> 01:18:36,962 things into existence. 3198 01:18:37,004 --> 01:18:38,839 [Sean] So the core idea, 3199 01:18:38,881 --> 01:18:40,424 the central aim, 3200 01:18:40,466 --> 01:18:42,843 is to rid your heart of any sin 3201 01:18:42,885 --> 01:18:44,554 and of any doubt. 3202 01:18:44,595 --> 01:18:46,722 And once you do that, 3203 01:18:44,595 --> 01:18:46,722 you can have complete mastery 3204 01:18:46,763 --> 01:18:48,349 over the universe. 3205 01:18:48,391 --> 01:18:50,142 You are God. 3206 01:18:52,102 --> 01:18:55,105 [Simeon] For a time period 3207 01:18:52,102 --> 01:18:55,105 from 2001 to 2006, 3208 01:18:55,147 --> 01:18:56,940 I lived in the Bahamas, 3209 01:18:56,982 --> 01:19:00,319 laid down roots 3210 01:18:56,982 --> 01:19:00,319 pretty deep there. 3211 01:19:00,361 --> 01:19:02,029 Now, while I was there, 3212 01:19:02,071 --> 01:19:04,823 I had some interactions 3213 01:19:04,865 --> 01:19:07,201 with this ministry 3214 01:19:07,243 --> 01:19:09,704 under Myles Munroe. 3215 01:19:09,745 --> 01:19:13,165 My family had been exposed 3216 01:19:13,207 --> 01:19:15,000 to his teaching on television. 3217 01:19:15,042 --> 01:19:17,420 People ain't worried 3218 01:19:15,042 --> 01:19:17,420 about no blood on no cross. 3219 01:19:17,461 --> 01:19:19,046 They're worrying about how 3220 01:19:17,461 --> 01:19:19,046 they're gonna make it 3221 01:19:19,088 --> 01:19:20,756 -through the day. 3222 01:19:19,088 --> 01:19:20,756 -[congregation] Yes. 3223 01:19:20,797 --> 01:19:22,425 I'm just gonna read for you 3224 01:19:22,466 --> 01:19:25,969 page 13 of his book, 3225 01:19:22,466 --> 01:19:25,969 Applying the Kingdom. 3226 01:19:26,011 --> 01:19:28,138 He says, 3227 01:19:26,011 --> 01:19:28,138 "Every human is searching 3228 01:19:28,180 --> 01:19:29,806 for the simple formula 3229 01:19:29,848 --> 01:19:32,851 to a successful, fulfilled life. 3230 01:19:32,893 --> 01:19:34,853 They want to find the one key 3231 01:19:34,895 --> 01:19:37,898 that unlocks the door 3232 01:19:34,895 --> 01:19:37,898 to the good life 3233 01:19:37,940 --> 01:19:41,068 and answers the questions 3234 01:19:37,940 --> 01:19:41,068 of their heart. 3235 01:19:41,110 --> 01:19:44,071 Perhaps this is why The Secret 3236 01:19:44,113 --> 01:19:46,198 became a sudden 3237 01:19:44,113 --> 01:19:46,198 best-selling book 3238 01:19:46,240 --> 01:19:48,909 even though its reign 3239 01:19:46,240 --> 01:19:48,909 was short-lived." 3240 01:19:48,951 --> 01:19:51,621 [Scott] 3241 01:19:48,951 --> 01:19:51,621 One of the greatest 3242 01:19:51,662 --> 01:19:54,248 and most dangerous heresies 3243 01:19:54,290 --> 01:19:55,666 that the early church faced 3244 01:19:55,708 --> 01:19:57,251 was that of Gnosticism. 3245 01:19:57,293 --> 01:20:00,379 They were selling Gnosis, 3246 01:19:57,293 --> 01:20:00,379 or secret knowledge. 3247 01:20:00,421 --> 01:20:02,423 I've been talking about this 3248 01:20:00,421 --> 01:20:02,423 for years on my show. 3249 01:20:02,465 --> 01:20:03,966 I just never called it 3250 01:20:02,465 --> 01:20:03,966 "The Secret." 3251 01:20:04,007 --> 01:20:06,302 The Secret is the law 3252 01:20:04,007 --> 01:20:06,302 of attraction. 3253 01:20:06,343 --> 01:20:08,137 [Simeon] "This book promised 3254 01:20:08,178 --> 01:20:10,389 the final key to life 3255 01:20:08,178 --> 01:20:10,389 and success." 3256 01:20:10,431 --> 01:20:12,433 [Scott] This was the power 3257 01:20:10,431 --> 01:20:12,433 of Gnosticism 3258 01:20:12,475 --> 01:20:13,976 in the second century. 3259 01:20:14,017 --> 01:20:15,227 Secret knowledge, 3260 01:20:15,269 --> 01:20:17,480 or "second blessings." 3261 01:20:17,521 --> 01:20:18,981 If you see it in here, 3262 01:20:19,022 --> 01:20:20,399 you're gonna hold it here. 3263 01:20:20,441 --> 01:20:23,026 If you think bigger, 3264 01:20:20,441 --> 01:20:23,026 you'll live bigger. 3265 01:20:23,068 --> 01:20:25,321 [Scott] You know, 3266 01:20:23,068 --> 01:20:25,321 dividing the Christian church 3267 01:20:25,362 --> 01:20:27,490 into haves and have-nots, right? 3268 01:20:27,531 --> 01:20:30,826 Some are anointed 3269 01:20:27,531 --> 01:20:30,826 and some are not. 3270 01:20:30,867 --> 01:20:33,954 "I was amazed to find 3271 01:20:30,867 --> 01:20:33,954 when I read this book 3272 01:20:33,996 --> 01:20:36,540 that it was simply a restatement 3273 01:20:36,582 --> 01:20:40,252 of all the principles 3274 01:20:36,582 --> 01:20:40,252 already written in the Bible..." 3275 01:20:40,294 --> 01:20:43,255 What we declare creates reality. 3276 01:20:43,297 --> 01:20:45,174 Happiness, health, and wealth. 3277 01:20:45,215 --> 01:20:47,301 [Simeon] 3278 01:20:45,215 --> 01:20:47,301 "...and the same material 3279 01:20:47,343 --> 01:20:51,597 I and many others 3280 01:20:47,343 --> 01:20:51,597 have been sharing for years." 3281 01:20:51,639 --> 01:20:53,641 You're thinking poor. 3282 01:20:53,683 --> 01:20:56,185 Start thinking rich. 3283 01:20:56,226 --> 01:20:58,437 "In essence, The Secret 3284 01:20:58,479 --> 01:21:01,106 was never a secret." 3285 01:21:01,148 --> 01:21:02,483 For every action, 3286 01:21:02,525 --> 01:21:05,277 there's an equal 3287 01:21:02,525 --> 01:21:05,277 and opposite reaction. 3288 01:21:05,319 --> 01:21:07,446 That is my religion. 3289 01:21:07,488 --> 01:21:10,449 [Scott] If your teaching 3290 01:21:07,488 --> 01:21:10,449 is being approved by Oprah, 3291 01:21:10,491 --> 01:21:13,452 that might raise 3292 01:21:10,491 --> 01:21:13,452 some warning flags. 3293 01:21:13,494 --> 01:21:16,789 I don't see her advancing, 3294 01:21:13,494 --> 01:21:16,789 promoting, 3295 01:21:16,831 --> 01:21:20,959 traditional, historic, 3296 01:21:16,831 --> 01:21:20,959 Christian orthodox teaching. 3297 01:21:21,001 --> 01:21:24,921 But she is a very successful 3298 01:21:21,001 --> 01:21:24,921 representative of the, 3299 01:21:24,963 --> 01:21:27,383 really, what's become 3300 01:21:24,963 --> 01:21:27,383 the American religion 3301 01:21:27,424 --> 01:21:29,301 of prosperity. 3302 01:21:29,343 --> 01:21:32,429 What kind of God wants you 3303 01:21:29,343 --> 01:21:32,429 to be poor and miserable? 3304 01:21:32,471 --> 01:21:34,557 A car for you, and for you, 3305 01:21:32,471 --> 01:21:34,557 and for you, 3306 01:21:34,598 --> 01:21:37,142 if only you'll name it 3307 01:21:34,598 --> 01:21:37,142 and claim it. 3308 01:21:38,519 --> 01:21:40,145 [Costi] Later on, after college, 3309 01:21:40,187 --> 01:21:41,856 I met a gal who's now my wife. 3310 01:21:41,897 --> 01:21:44,483 She's beautiful 3311 01:21:41,897 --> 01:21:44,483 on the inside and the outside. 3312 01:21:44,525 --> 01:21:47,069 She comes from a very different 3313 01:21:44,525 --> 01:21:47,069 background than me. 3314 01:21:47,110 --> 01:21:48,529 She was not necessarily 3315 01:21:48,571 --> 01:21:51,156 Word of Faith/ 3316 01:21:48,571 --> 01:21:51,156 prosperity material. 3317 01:21:51,198 --> 01:21:52,867 And my family, 3318 01:21:52,908 --> 01:21:55,244 when I told them 3319 01:21:52,908 --> 01:21:55,244 that I met a nice gal, 3320 01:21:55,285 --> 01:21:57,287 said, "Great. 3321 01:21:55,285 --> 01:21:57,287 We'd love to meet her. 3322 01:21:57,329 --> 01:21:59,122 Is she spirit-filled?" 3323 01:21:59,164 --> 01:22:01,542 And I said, 3324 01:21:59,164 --> 01:22:01,542 "Oh, no. Don't do that. 3325 01:22:01,584 --> 01:22:04,002 Please don't do that. 3326 01:22:01,584 --> 01:22:04,002 Yes, she's spirit-filled." 3327 01:22:04,044 --> 01:22:06,296 Because as our beliefs 3328 01:22:04,044 --> 01:22:06,296 and teachings went, 3329 01:22:06,338 --> 01:22:08,591 a person is not filled 3330 01:22:06,338 --> 01:22:08,591 with the Holy Spirit, 3331 01:22:08,632 --> 01:22:10,426 they're not baptized 3332 01:22:08,632 --> 01:22:10,426 with the Holy Spirit, 3333 01:22:10,467 --> 01:22:12,469 and they're probably 3334 01:22:10,467 --> 01:22:12,469 not even saved 3335 01:22:12,511 --> 01:22:14,137 unless they speak in tongues 3336 01:22:14,179 --> 01:22:16,599 as evidence of their conversion. 3337 01:22:16,640 --> 01:22:18,308 There was a lot of pain 3338 01:22:18,350 --> 01:22:19,727 during those days for my wife, 3339 01:22:19,769 --> 01:22:21,144 there was a lot of pain for me, 3340 01:22:21,186 --> 01:22:23,355 because we were trying 3341 01:22:21,186 --> 01:22:23,355 to force a belief 3342 01:22:23,397 --> 01:22:24,899 and a doctrinal system 3343 01:22:24,940 --> 01:22:28,402 onto her and into her 3344 01:22:24,940 --> 01:22:28,402 that wasn't biblical. 3345 01:22:28,444 --> 01:22:29,945 Then one day after my wife 3346 01:22:29,986 --> 01:22:31,530 was just distraught, 3347 01:22:29,986 --> 01:22:31,530 in tears, 3348 01:22:31,572 --> 01:22:33,908 we turned to 3349 01:22:31,572 --> 01:22:33,908 1 Corinthians 12:30, 3350 01:22:33,949 --> 01:22:35,743 and it about jumped 3351 01:22:33,949 --> 01:22:35,743 off the page 3352 01:22:35,785 --> 01:22:39,413 As Paul says, "All don't speak 3353 01:22:35,785 --> 01:22:39,413 in tongues, do they?" 3354 01:22:39,455 --> 01:22:41,039 And there it was. 3355 01:22:41,081 --> 01:22:42,999 It's not an essential, 3356 01:22:43,041 --> 01:22:45,461 and we all don't have 3357 01:22:43,041 --> 01:22:45,461 to speak in tongues 3358 01:22:45,502 --> 01:22:47,129 as evidence of salvation. 3359 01:22:47,170 --> 01:22:49,089 We all have 3360 01:22:47,170 --> 01:22:49,089 the Holy Spirit at conversion. 3361 01:22:49,131 --> 01:22:51,258 There's no second-class citizens 3362 01:22:49,131 --> 01:22:51,258 in Christ. 3363 01:22:51,300 --> 01:22:53,093 You don't have the ones 3364 01:22:51,300 --> 01:22:53,093 that are in first class 3365 01:22:53,135 --> 01:22:55,262 and the ones that are 3366 01:22:53,135 --> 01:22:55,262 in economy class. 3367 01:22:55,304 --> 01:22:57,347 We all have the Holy Spirit. 3368 01:22:57,389 --> 01:22:59,642 Further study caused the dominos 3369 01:22:59,683 --> 01:23:02,311 of other false beliefs 3370 01:22:59,683 --> 01:23:02,311 to continue to fall. 3371 01:23:02,352 --> 01:23:05,439 [David] Well, I was raised 3372 01:23:02,352 --> 01:23:05,439 in a Christian home. 3373 01:23:05,481 --> 01:23:08,108 I didn't really make God 3374 01:23:05,481 --> 01:23:08,108 a big priority in my life 3375 01:23:08,150 --> 01:23:10,026 until I was about 17, 3376 01:23:10,068 --> 01:23:12,112 that's when I really started 3377 01:23:10,068 --> 01:23:12,112 having a relationship with God. 3378 01:23:12,154 --> 01:23:14,615 Then about a year 3379 01:23:12,154 --> 01:23:14,615 or two after that, 3380 01:23:14,657 --> 01:23:18,327 I got really involved 3381 01:23:14,657 --> 01:23:18,327 in the Charismatic movement. 3382 01:23:18,368 --> 01:23:20,663 I got introduced to a lot 3383 01:23:18,368 --> 01:23:20,663 of faith healers 3384 01:23:20,704 --> 01:23:22,372 through people at my church. 3385 01:23:22,414 --> 01:23:25,292 And one specifically 3386 01:23:22,414 --> 01:23:25,292 was Todd White. 3387 01:23:25,334 --> 01:23:27,461 [Justin] Todd White 3388 01:23:25,334 --> 01:23:27,461 is now a member 3389 01:23:27,503 --> 01:23:30,506 of Gateway Church, 3390 01:23:27,503 --> 01:23:30,506 pastored by Robert Morris, 3391 01:23:30,547 --> 01:23:32,508 in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. 3392 01:23:32,549 --> 01:23:35,093 But what Todd White 3393 01:23:32,549 --> 01:23:35,093 is really known for 3394 01:23:35,135 --> 01:23:36,553 is going on the street 3395 01:23:36,595 --> 01:23:39,389 and walking up to people 3396 01:23:36,595 --> 01:23:39,389 at random, 3397 01:23:39,431 --> 01:23:41,934 and seemingly healing them. 3398 01:23:41,976 --> 01:23:45,479 [David] And he's very good 3399 01:23:41,976 --> 01:23:45,479 with people, and very-- 3400 01:23:45,521 --> 01:23:47,230 seems very loving. 3401 01:23:47,272 --> 01:23:49,650 Yeah. And I idolized these men, 3402 01:23:49,692 --> 01:23:52,277 and I wanted to be like them. 3403 01:23:52,319 --> 01:23:55,364 Basically, I wanted 3404 01:23:52,319 --> 01:23:55,364 to make my lifestyle 3405 01:23:55,405 --> 01:23:58,116 all about glorifying myself 3406 01:23:58,158 --> 01:24:01,244 by making me look like 3407 01:23:58,158 --> 01:24:01,244 some super-Christian 3408 01:24:01,286 --> 01:24:03,664 that goes around 3409 01:24:01,286 --> 01:24:03,664 and heals people all the time. 3410 01:24:03,706 --> 01:24:06,709 And I wanted to be a big 3411 01:24:03,706 --> 01:24:06,709 hotshot faith healer guy, 3412 01:24:06,750 --> 01:24:09,336 that I was so anointed, 3413 01:24:06,750 --> 01:24:09,336 when I walked into the church, 3414 01:24:09,378 --> 01:24:11,797 everyone would say, 3415 01:24:09,378 --> 01:24:11,797 "Oh, look at David. 3416 01:24:11,839 --> 01:24:13,340 Wow, he's so anointed." 3417 01:24:13,382 --> 01:24:15,133 But now I realize 3418 01:24:13,382 --> 01:24:15,133 it's not about me. 3419 01:24:15,175 --> 01:24:17,636 It's all about God. 3420 01:24:15,175 --> 01:24:17,636 Give God all the glory. 3421 01:24:17,678 --> 01:24:18,929 [Costi] Today, we're at a point 3422 01:24:18,971 --> 01:24:20,597 where a lot of the major 3423 01:24:18,971 --> 01:24:20,597 Word of Faith 3424 01:24:20,639 --> 01:24:23,017 and faith healing players 3425 01:24:20,639 --> 01:24:23,017 are getting old. 3426 01:24:23,058 --> 01:24:24,852 People like my uncle, 3427 01:24:23,058 --> 01:24:24,852 Benny Hinn, 3428 01:24:24,894 --> 01:24:26,562 people like Kenneth Copeland 3429 01:24:24,894 --> 01:24:26,562 and others, 3430 01:24:26,603 --> 01:24:27,938 they're getting older. 3431 01:24:27,980 --> 01:24:30,190 And so what we're seeing 3432 01:24:27,980 --> 01:24:30,190 is a handing off 3433 01:24:30,232 --> 01:24:32,818 of the torch, 3434 01:24:30,232 --> 01:24:32,818 the passing of the baton, 3435 01:24:32,860 --> 01:24:36,739 as men like Todd White 3436 01:24:32,860 --> 01:24:36,739 and others come up in the ranks. 3437 01:24:36,780 --> 01:24:38,240 And I'm gonna say this to you. 3438 01:24:38,281 --> 01:24:40,409 You need to be putting 3439 01:24:38,281 --> 01:24:40,409 your money in here. 3440 01:24:40,450 --> 01:24:42,327 But the straw that broke 3441 01:24:40,450 --> 01:24:42,327 the camel's back with me 3442 01:24:42,369 --> 01:24:44,580 was when I saw a video 3443 01:24:42,369 --> 01:24:44,580 of Todd White 3444 01:24:44,621 --> 01:24:46,498 aligning himself 3445 01:24:44,621 --> 01:24:46,498 with Kenneth Copeland 3446 01:24:46,540 --> 01:24:47,833 doing a fundraiser. 3447 01:24:47,875 --> 01:24:49,752 And I have the privilege 3448 01:24:49,793 --> 01:24:52,546 of introducing one 3449 01:24:49,793 --> 01:24:52,546 of the amazing fathers 3450 01:24:52,588 --> 01:24:54,006 in the body of Christ. 3451 01:24:54,048 --> 01:24:56,341 Actually, he's really special 3452 01:24:54,048 --> 01:24:56,341 to me and... 3453 01:24:56,383 --> 01:24:58,176 [David] Kenneth Copeland 3454 01:24:56,383 --> 01:24:58,176 is worth upwards 3455 01:24:58,218 --> 01:24:59,636 of $700 million. 3456 01:24:59,678 --> 01:25:01,221 He has a fleet of airplanes, 3457 01:25:01,263 --> 01:25:03,306 his own airstrip, 3458 01:25:01,263 --> 01:25:03,306 lives in a compound 3459 01:25:03,348 --> 01:25:04,975 in Fort Worth, Texas, 3460 01:25:05,017 --> 01:25:07,937 and is the poster child 3461 01:25:05,017 --> 01:25:07,937 for Word of Faith theology. 3462 01:25:07,978 --> 01:25:10,146 He's a mentor in my life, 3463 01:25:10,188 --> 01:25:11,398 he's a spiritual father. 3464 01:25:11,440 --> 01:25:13,275 [Paul Johnson] 3465 01:25:11,440 --> 01:25:13,275 I'd say the hallmark 3466 01:25:13,316 --> 01:25:16,987 of Kenneth Copeland's teaching 3467 01:25:13,316 --> 01:25:16,987 is the way he deifies man. 3468 01:25:17,029 --> 01:25:20,074 You have exactly 3469 01:25:20,115 --> 01:25:24,078 the same spiritual DNA 3470 01:25:20,115 --> 01:25:24,078 as Jesus! 3471 01:25:24,119 --> 01:25:26,830 Glory to God! Hallelujah! 3472 01:25:26,872 --> 01:25:29,959 You are a twin 3473 01:25:26,872 --> 01:25:29,959 to the Master Himself! 3474 01:25:30,000 --> 01:25:31,126 [laughs] 3475 01:25:31,167 --> 01:25:32,711 So, say I'm sick, 3476 01:25:32,753 --> 01:25:35,213 why wouldn't I be healed? 3477 01:25:35,255 --> 01:25:37,173 Because I have 3478 01:25:35,255 --> 01:25:37,173 the same spiritual DNA. 3479 01:25:37,215 --> 01:25:40,886 You've got the very DNA, 3480 01:25:37,215 --> 01:25:40,886 the divine nature of Abba, 3481 01:25:40,928 --> 01:25:42,387 coursing through your veins-- 3482 01:25:42,429 --> 01:25:44,807 why wouldn't God 3483 01:25:42,429 --> 01:25:44,807 heal your blood disease? 3484 01:25:44,848 --> 01:25:48,477 So I should live 3485 01:25:44,848 --> 01:25:48,477 over a hundred years or forever. 3486 01:25:48,518 --> 01:25:52,397 Your spiritual DNA 3487 01:25:48,518 --> 01:25:52,397 was programmed 3488 01:25:52,439 --> 01:25:55,442 to keep your body strong 3489 01:25:55,484 --> 01:25:57,736 for 120 years. 3490 01:25:57,778 --> 01:25:59,863 And this really comes close 3491 01:25:59,905 --> 01:26:02,574 to something like 3492 01:25:59,905 --> 01:26:02,574 what the Mormons do. 3493 01:26:02,616 --> 01:26:04,409 And I think 3494 01:26:02,616 --> 01:26:04,409 it's with good reason 3495 01:26:04,451 --> 01:26:07,245 that some scholars 3496 01:26:04,451 --> 01:26:07,245 have described Mormonism 3497 01:26:07,287 --> 01:26:09,665 as the quintessential 3498 01:26:07,287 --> 01:26:09,665 American religion. 3499 01:26:09,706 --> 01:26:11,708 It's about being good. 3500 01:26:11,750 --> 01:26:13,502 It's about being American. 3501 01:26:13,543 --> 01:26:15,253 And it's about becoming God. 3502 01:26:15,295 --> 01:26:17,923 That religion is as old 3503 01:26:15,295 --> 01:26:17,923 as the Garden. 3504 01:26:17,965 --> 01:26:19,591 [Copeland, on recording] 3505 01:26:32,021 --> 01:26:34,230 The very first temptation, 3506 01:26:34,272 --> 01:26:36,232 which led to the very first sin, 3507 01:26:36,274 --> 01:26:38,902 was this desire 3508 01:26:36,274 --> 01:26:38,902 to be just like God. 3509 01:26:38,944 --> 01:26:40,570 [Copeland, on recording] 3510 01:26:48,203 --> 01:26:51,331 One of the most 3511 01:26:48,203 --> 01:26:51,331 objectionable elements 3512 01:26:51,373 --> 01:26:52,708 of Kenneth Copeland's doctrine 3513 01:26:52,749 --> 01:26:55,335 was this idea 3514 01:26:52,749 --> 01:26:55,335 that any human being 3515 01:26:55,377 --> 01:26:56,920 could have done 3516 01:26:55,377 --> 01:26:56,920 what Jesus Christ did, 3517 01:26:56,962 --> 01:26:58,755 at least in principle, 3518 01:26:56,962 --> 01:26:58,755 because Jesus 3519 01:26:58,797 --> 01:27:01,216 was constitutionally 3520 01:26:58,797 --> 01:27:01,216 no different than you and me. 3521 01:27:01,257 --> 01:27:02,885 [Copeland, on recording] 3522 01:27:39,796 --> 01:27:42,507 [Johnson] That's the heart 3523 01:27:39,796 --> 01:27:42,507 of Copeland's teaching. 3524 01:27:42,549 --> 01:27:44,760 And it's as evil and Satanic 3525 01:27:44,801 --> 01:27:46,929 as any theology 3526 01:27:44,801 --> 01:27:46,929 that is out there 3527 01:27:46,970 --> 01:27:48,722 going by the name "Christian." 3528 01:27:48,764 --> 01:27:50,933 I've just, for years and years 3529 01:27:48,764 --> 01:27:50,933 since I've been saved, 3530 01:27:50,974 --> 01:27:53,309 have just looked 3531 01:27:50,974 --> 01:27:53,309 at the rock-solid 3532 01:27:53,351 --> 01:27:56,646 -ministry of Kenneth Copeland. 3533 01:27:53,351 --> 01:27:56,646 -[Johnson] I'll agree with that 3534 01:27:56,688 --> 01:27:58,065 if what he means is, 3535 01:27:58,107 --> 01:28:00,609 it's a rock-solid example 3536 01:27:58,107 --> 01:28:00,609 of rank heresy. 3537 01:28:00,650 --> 01:28:02,402 It's not Christianity. 3538 01:28:02,444 --> 01:28:04,446 [Justin] 3539 01:28:02,444 --> 01:28:04,446 So this demotion of God 3540 01:28:04,487 --> 01:28:07,365 and deification of man 3541 01:28:04,487 --> 01:28:07,365 is at the heart 3542 01:28:07,407 --> 01:28:10,660 of the Word Faith/ 3543 01:28:07,407 --> 01:28:10,660 prosperity gospel movement. 3544 01:28:10,702 --> 01:28:13,747 The prosperity gospel is this 3545 01:28:13,789 --> 01:28:16,625 ideology that's iron-clad. 3546 01:28:16,666 --> 01:28:19,628 It's iron-clad 3547 01:28:16,666 --> 01:28:19,628 in all these assumptions 3548 01:28:19,669 --> 01:28:22,547 that formed like this 3549 01:28:19,669 --> 01:28:22,547 iron curtain around it. 3550 01:28:22,589 --> 01:28:24,507 And you've got 3551 01:28:22,589 --> 01:28:24,507 to break through that 3552 01:28:24,549 --> 01:28:26,927 before people who adhere to it 3553 01:28:26,969 --> 01:28:28,678 will give you any kind 3554 01:28:26,969 --> 01:28:28,678 of hearing. 3555 01:28:28,720 --> 01:28:30,264 One of them is just fear. 3556 01:28:30,305 --> 01:28:32,266 My brother, my sister, 3557 01:28:30,305 --> 01:28:32,266 be careful. 3558 01:28:32,307 --> 01:28:34,768 If you raise your voice 3559 01:28:32,307 --> 01:28:34,768 against the man of God, 3560 01:28:34,810 --> 01:28:37,562 even if that man 3561 01:28:34,810 --> 01:28:37,562 of God is wicked, 3562 01:28:37,604 --> 01:28:38,772 sickness will come on you. 3563 01:28:38,814 --> 01:28:40,565 [Costi] You speak against them, 3564 01:28:40,607 --> 01:28:42,692 you would be cursed-- 3565 01:28:40,607 --> 01:28:42,692 that's the way we were taught. 3566 01:28:42,734 --> 01:28:44,778 And so we grew up 3567 01:28:42,734 --> 01:28:44,778 with a lot of fear. 3568 01:28:44,820 --> 01:28:46,905 Never to question the theology, 3569 01:28:46,947 --> 01:28:48,991 the teaching 3570 01:28:46,947 --> 01:28:48,991 or even the lifestyle. 3571 01:28:49,032 --> 01:28:50,951 They assume that 3572 01:28:50,993 --> 01:28:53,036 these preachers 3573 01:28:50,993 --> 01:28:53,036 are untouchable. 3574 01:28:53,078 --> 01:28:55,705 If you touch servants of God, 3575 01:28:55,747 --> 01:28:58,000 you will be judged severely. 3576 01:28:58,041 --> 01:28:59,375 [Simeon] 3577 01:28:58,041 --> 01:28:59,375 That they're... 3578 01:28:59,417 --> 01:29:01,211 the Lord's anointed, 3579 01:29:01,253 --> 01:29:02,712 and the Bible says, 3580 01:29:02,754 --> 01:29:04,131 Touch not the Lord's anointed." 3581 01:29:04,173 --> 01:29:06,716 And by "touch," 3582 01:29:04,173 --> 01:29:06,716 they understand that to mean, 3583 01:29:06,758 --> 01:29:08,760 you don't challenge 3584 01:29:06,758 --> 01:29:08,760 their views... 3585 01:29:08,802 --> 01:29:10,386 Don't mention people's names 3586 01:29:10,428 --> 01:29:12,430 on your radio program 3587 01:29:10,428 --> 01:29:12,430 and your TV program. 3588 01:29:12,472 --> 01:29:14,349 The Bible is explicit. 3589 01:29:14,390 --> 01:29:16,643 False teachers must be 3590 01:29:14,390 --> 01:29:16,643 called out by name. 3591 01:29:16,685 --> 01:29:19,271 I mean, 3592 01:29:16,685 --> 01:29:19,271 Paul called out Peter, 3593 01:29:19,313 --> 01:29:20,939 you know, the top dog. 3594 01:29:20,981 --> 01:29:22,398 He called him out 3595 01:29:22,440 --> 01:29:23,775 when he was acting in such a way 3596 01:29:23,817 --> 01:29:25,735 that was out of line 3597 01:29:23,817 --> 01:29:25,735 with the gospel. 3598 01:29:25,777 --> 01:29:27,529 Touch not the anointed. 3599 01:29:27,570 --> 01:29:29,656 They just take this idea 3600 01:29:29,698 --> 01:29:32,367 of David not wanting 3601 01:29:32,408 --> 01:29:35,871 to touch the Lord's anointed, 3602 01:29:32,408 --> 01:29:35,871 Saul. 3603 01:29:35,912 --> 01:29:38,373 "Touch" there means "kill." 3604 01:29:38,414 --> 01:29:40,250 It means harm physically. 3605 01:29:40,292 --> 01:29:41,877 Sometimes I wish God 3606 01:29:40,292 --> 01:29:41,877 would give me 3607 01:29:41,918 --> 01:29:43,670 a Holy Ghost machine gun-- 3608 01:29:41,918 --> 01:29:43,670 I'd blow your head off. 3609 01:29:43,712 --> 01:29:44,921 [Constance] 3610 01:29:43,712 --> 01:29:44,921 I don't wanna kill them. 3611 01:29:44,963 --> 01:29:47,381 I don't want to attack them. 3612 01:29:47,423 --> 01:29:49,718 I'm not wishing any bodily harm 3613 01:29:47,423 --> 01:29:49,718 to them, 3614 01:29:49,759 --> 01:29:51,011 or anything like that. 3615 01:29:51,053 --> 01:29:53,638 I'm just telling you 3616 01:29:51,053 --> 01:29:53,638 how easy is it 3617 01:29:53,680 --> 01:29:56,850 to go through scripture 3618 01:29:53,680 --> 01:29:56,850 and say what scripture says? 3619 01:29:56,892 --> 01:29:59,019 [Simeon] 3620 01:29:56,892 --> 01:29:59,019 The Bereans, in Acts 17, 3621 01:29:59,061 --> 01:30:02,147 they are commended 3622 01:29:59,061 --> 01:30:02,147 for wanting to make sure 3623 01:30:02,189 --> 01:30:05,150 the things that Paul is teaching 3624 01:30:05,192 --> 01:30:06,526 are in the Bible. 3625 01:30:06,568 --> 01:30:09,071 One, it shows that we love them. 3626 01:30:09,112 --> 01:30:11,323 We love them enough 3627 01:30:09,112 --> 01:30:11,323 to pray for them, 3628 01:30:11,365 --> 01:30:14,659 even though they are, in 3629 01:30:11,365 --> 01:30:14,659 a very real way, our enemies. 3630 01:30:14,701 --> 01:30:16,286 We call them out in hopes 3631 01:30:14,701 --> 01:30:16,286 that they would 3632 01:30:16,328 --> 01:30:17,871 hear this true gospel 3633 01:30:17,913 --> 01:30:19,748 and that they would hear 3634 01:30:17,913 --> 01:30:19,748 this rebuke, 3635 01:30:19,789 --> 01:30:21,333 and that it would break 3636 01:30:19,789 --> 01:30:21,333 their hearts, 3637 01:30:21,375 --> 01:30:22,542 and that they would repent 3638 01:30:21,375 --> 01:30:22,542 of their sins, 3639 01:30:22,584 --> 01:30:24,961 and trust in the Lord Jesus. 3640 01:30:25,003 --> 01:30:28,464 In order to really understand 3641 01:30:25,003 --> 01:30:28,464 a movement, 3642 01:30:28,506 --> 01:30:32,052 it helps to have at least 3643 01:30:28,506 --> 01:30:32,052 a general working knowledge 3644 01:30:32,094 --> 01:30:33,720 of the origins. 3645 01:30:33,762 --> 01:30:35,680 [Costi] The heritage 3646 01:30:33,762 --> 01:30:35,680 of Word of Faith theology 3647 01:30:35,722 --> 01:30:38,767 reaches all the way back 3648 01:30:35,722 --> 01:30:38,767 to a man named E.W. Kenyon 3649 01:30:38,808 --> 01:30:40,476 in the 1800s. 3650 01:30:40,518 --> 01:30:42,938 [Robert] Kenyon was, 3651 01:30:40,518 --> 01:30:42,938 to put it simply, 3652 01:30:42,979 --> 01:30:44,940 a charismatic Baptist. 3653 01:30:44,981 --> 01:30:47,109 He was taught by A.J. Gordon 3654 01:30:47,150 --> 01:30:51,405 and other evangelical believers 3655 01:30:47,150 --> 01:30:51,405 in the faith healing doctrine. 3656 01:30:51,445 --> 01:30:55,409 He is the one that 3657 01:30:51,445 --> 01:30:55,409 really pioneered the ideas 3658 01:30:55,449 --> 01:30:57,202 that were picked up 3659 01:30:55,449 --> 01:30:57,202 by Kenneth Hagin, 3660 01:30:57,244 --> 01:30:58,828 and later, Kenneth Copeland, 3661 01:30:58,870 --> 01:31:00,830 in what we call 3662 01:30:58,870 --> 01:31:00,830 the Word of Faith movement. 3663 01:31:00,872 --> 01:31:03,041 Your modern prosperity preachers 3664 01:31:03,083 --> 01:31:04,709 such as Joel Osteen, 3665 01:31:04,751 --> 01:31:07,921 Joseph Prince, Joyce Meyer, 3666 01:31:04,751 --> 01:31:07,921 Benny Hinn, 3667 01:31:07,963 --> 01:31:09,965 they were heavily influenced 3668 01:31:10,006 --> 01:31:11,674 by Kenneth Copeland. 3669 01:31:11,716 --> 01:31:14,510 Kenneth Copeland mastered 3670 01:31:11,716 --> 01:31:14,510 his Word of Faith theology 3671 01:31:14,552 --> 01:31:17,013 and his craft 3672 01:31:14,552 --> 01:31:17,013 as a big business preacher 3673 01:31:17,055 --> 01:31:19,849 by listening to the tapes 3674 01:31:17,055 --> 01:31:19,849 of Kenneth Hagin. 3675 01:31:19,891 --> 01:31:22,560 [Justin] Kenneth Hagin, 3676 01:31:19,891 --> 01:31:22,560 we could call the father 3677 01:31:22,602 --> 01:31:24,854 of the modern 3678 01:31:22,602 --> 01:31:24,854 Word of Faith movement, 3679 01:31:24,896 --> 01:31:26,982 the modern prosperity gospel. 3680 01:31:27,023 --> 01:31:31,153 Kenneth Hagin claimed that much 3681 01:31:27,023 --> 01:31:31,153 of what he taught people 3682 01:31:31,194 --> 01:31:32,904 he received directly 3683 01:31:32,946 --> 01:31:35,157 through divine revelation 3684 01:31:32,946 --> 01:31:35,157 knowledge. 3685 01:31:35,198 --> 01:31:37,700 And so for example, 3686 01:31:35,198 --> 01:31:37,700 Kenneth Hagin 3687 01:31:37,742 --> 01:31:39,702 made this statement, 3688 01:31:37,742 --> 01:31:39,702 and I quote: 3689 01:31:39,744 --> 01:31:41,330 [Robert reads quotation] 3690 01:31:52,299 --> 01:31:53,967 [Robert] End quote. 3691 01:31:54,009 --> 01:31:56,678 Now, this statement 3692 01:31:54,009 --> 01:31:56,678 that Hagin makes here 3693 01:31:56,719 --> 01:31:58,096 he actually plagiarized 3694 01:31:58,138 --> 01:31:59,889 from E.W. Kenyon. 3695 01:31:59,931 --> 01:32:01,933 It's something that Kenyon 3696 01:31:59,931 --> 01:32:01,933 had written in one of his books, 3697 01:32:01,975 --> 01:32:04,811 and it is quoted 3698 01:32:01,975 --> 01:32:04,811 without attribution 3699 01:32:04,853 --> 01:32:09,358 by Kenneth Hagin, verbatim, 3700 01:32:04,853 --> 01:32:09,358 in one of his articles. 3701 01:32:09,399 --> 01:32:12,068 This idea that 3702 01:32:09,399 --> 01:32:12,068 every human being who believes 3703 01:32:12,110 --> 01:32:15,030 is an incarnation is simply 3704 01:32:12,110 --> 01:32:15,030 not a biblical idea. 3705 01:32:15,071 --> 01:32:17,573 The misunderstanding here is, 3706 01:32:17,615 --> 01:32:20,534 the incarnation is not simply 3707 01:32:17,615 --> 01:32:20,534 a matter of the spirit of God 3708 01:32:20,576 --> 01:32:23,579 dwelling in a man, 3709 01:32:20,576 --> 01:32:23,579 or in a human being. 3710 01:32:23,621 --> 01:32:25,790 See, Jesus was man 3711 01:32:25,832 --> 01:32:27,667 until God touched Him 3712 01:32:27,709 --> 01:32:30,212 and put the spirit 3713 01:32:27,709 --> 01:32:30,212 of the living God 3714 01:32:30,253 --> 01:32:31,838 on the inside of Him. 3715 01:32:31,880 --> 01:32:34,090 [Robert] The incarnation 3716 01:32:31,880 --> 01:32:34,090 is God Himself 3717 01:32:34,132 --> 01:32:36,092 uniting Himself 3718 01:32:34,132 --> 01:32:36,092 with human nature 3719 01:32:36,134 --> 01:32:37,260 to become one of us. 3720 01:32:37,302 --> 01:32:39,262 It is the union 3721 01:32:39,304 --> 01:32:41,764 of the two natures, 3722 01:32:39,304 --> 01:32:41,764 the nature of God 3723 01:32:41,806 --> 01:32:43,850 and the nature of man, 3724 01:32:41,806 --> 01:32:43,850 in one person. 3725 01:32:43,892 --> 01:32:45,519 [Costi] 3726 01:32:43,892 --> 01:32:45,519 One of the most well-known 3727 01:32:45,559 --> 01:32:48,480 mainstream Word of Faith 3728 01:32:45,559 --> 01:32:48,480 preachers today 3729 01:32:48,522 --> 01:32:51,774 is Bill Johnson 3730 01:32:48,522 --> 01:32:51,774 from Bethel Church. 3731 01:32:51,816 --> 01:32:54,694 I am getting to love 3732 01:32:51,816 --> 01:32:54,694 Bill Johnson big time. 3733 01:32:54,736 --> 01:32:56,570 [Costi] They launched the band 3734 01:32:54,736 --> 01:32:56,570 Jesus Culture. 3735 01:32:56,612 --> 01:32:58,156 And they're really popular, 3736 01:32:58,198 --> 01:33:00,033 and they sing some really 3737 01:32:58,198 --> 01:33:00,033 cool-sounding songs, 3738 01:33:00,075 --> 01:33:03,745 but people might not know 3739 01:33:00,075 --> 01:33:03,745 on page 29 of his book, 3740 01:33:03,786 --> 01:33:05,247 When Heaven Invades Earth, 3741 01:33:05,288 --> 01:33:07,290 Bill Johnson writes, 3742 01:33:05,288 --> 01:33:07,290 in no uncertain terms, 3743 01:33:07,332 --> 01:33:09,000 "He," meaning Jesus, 3744 01:33:09,042 --> 01:33:11,753 "performed His miracles, 3745 01:33:09,042 --> 01:33:11,753 His signs and wonders, 3746 01:33:11,794 --> 01:33:14,172 as a man in right relationship 3747 01:33:11,794 --> 01:33:14,172 with God." 3748 01:33:14,214 --> 01:33:17,175 And then it says, 3749 01:33:14,214 --> 01:33:17,175 "...not as God." 3750 01:33:17,217 --> 01:33:19,261 If He performed His miracles 3751 01:33:17,217 --> 01:33:19,261 because He was God, 3752 01:33:19,302 --> 01:33:21,012 "then they would be 3753 01:33:19,302 --> 01:33:21,012 unattainable for us." 3754 01:33:21,054 --> 01:33:23,765 Therefore, since He did them 3755 01:33:21,054 --> 01:33:23,765 as a man, 3756 01:33:23,806 --> 01:33:26,851 I am responsible 3757 01:33:23,806 --> 01:33:26,851 to pursue that lifestyle. 3758 01:33:26,893 --> 01:33:28,811 [Justin] 3759 01:33:26,893 --> 01:33:28,811 One of the many aberrations 3760 01:33:28,853 --> 01:33:31,064 from historical Christianity 3761 01:33:31,106 --> 01:33:34,817 is their exaggerated view 3762 01:33:31,106 --> 01:33:34,817 of what's known as kenosis-- 3763 01:33:34,859 --> 01:33:36,570 Jesus emptying Himself. 3764 01:33:36,610 --> 01:33:39,448 Jesus was not born 3765 01:33:36,610 --> 01:33:39,448 into this world 3766 01:33:39,489 --> 01:33:41,074 to be God. 3767 01:33:41,116 --> 01:33:42,367 [Rosebrough] Kenotic theology, 3768 01:33:42,409 --> 01:33:44,744 taught by Bill Johnson, 3769 01:33:42,409 --> 01:33:44,744 Todd White, 3770 01:33:44,786 --> 01:33:46,996 basically is this idea 3771 01:33:47,038 --> 01:33:49,749 that Christ, in the incarnation, 3772 01:33:49,791 --> 01:33:53,711 that He emptied Himself 3773 01:33:49,791 --> 01:33:53,711 of His deity. 3774 01:33:53,753 --> 01:33:55,880 He was fully God and fully man, 3775 01:33:55,922 --> 01:33:58,883 but He had to lay aside 3776 01:33:55,922 --> 01:33:58,883 all divinity, 3777 01:33:58,925 --> 01:34:00,634 all of it, every bit of it... 3778 01:34:00,676 --> 01:34:02,262 [Costi] This is not 3779 01:34:00,676 --> 01:34:02,262 what the Bible teaches 3780 01:34:02,304 --> 01:34:04,222 when it says 3781 01:34:02,304 --> 01:34:04,222 that Christ emptied Himself, 3782 01:34:04,264 --> 01:34:06,475 and came and took on 3783 01:34:04,264 --> 01:34:06,475 the form of man. 3784 01:34:06,516 --> 01:34:08,393 The ground zero passage on this 3785 01:34:08,435 --> 01:34:10,686 is Philippians chapter two. 3786 01:34:10,728 --> 01:34:13,064 And, "Have this mind 3787 01:34:10,728 --> 01:34:13,064 among yourselves, 3788 01:34:13,106 --> 01:34:15,233 which is yours in Christ Jesus, 3789 01:34:15,275 --> 01:34:18,612 who, though He was 3790 01:34:15,275 --> 01:34:18,612 in the form of..." 3791 01:34:18,652 --> 01:34:20,489 or you can say 3792 01:34:18,652 --> 01:34:20,489 the nature of God, 3793 01:34:20,530 --> 01:34:23,950 "...He did not count equality 3794 01:34:20,530 --> 01:34:23,950 with God a thing to be grasped, 3795 01:34:23,992 --> 01:34:25,785 but He emptied Himself..." 3796 01:34:25,827 --> 01:34:27,870 And verse seven actually 3797 01:34:25,827 --> 01:34:27,870 makes it clear what-- 3798 01:34:27,912 --> 01:34:29,998 what it means for Him 3799 01:34:27,912 --> 01:34:29,998 to have emptied Himself. 3800 01:34:30,039 --> 01:34:31,333 He emptied Himself 3801 01:34:31,374 --> 01:34:33,585 by taking on the form 3802 01:34:31,374 --> 01:34:33,585 of a servant, 3803 01:34:33,627 --> 01:34:36,045 being born in the likeness 3804 01:34:33,627 --> 01:34:36,045 of men. 3805 01:34:36,087 --> 01:34:37,797 And "being found in human form, 3806 01:34:37,839 --> 01:34:39,257 He humbled Himself." 3807 01:34:39,299 --> 01:34:41,092 And was "obedient 3808 01:34:39,299 --> 01:34:41,092 to the point of death, 3809 01:34:41,134 --> 01:34:42,885 even death on a cross." 3810 01:34:42,927 --> 01:34:45,305 The language of scripture 3811 01:34:42,927 --> 01:34:45,305 might be confusing, 3812 01:34:45,347 --> 01:34:47,140 because it says 3813 01:34:45,347 --> 01:34:47,140 He emptied Himself. 3814 01:34:47,182 --> 01:34:49,434 But we're not to think 3815 01:34:47,182 --> 01:34:49,434 that He changed His nature, 3816 01:34:49,476 --> 01:34:50,768 because He can't change. 3817 01:34:50,810 --> 01:34:52,020 "Jesus Christ is the same 3818 01:34:52,061 --> 01:34:53,563 yesterday and today 3819 01:34:52,061 --> 01:34:53,563 and forever." 3820 01:34:53,605 --> 01:34:55,815 He didn't divest Himself 3821 01:34:53,605 --> 01:34:55,815 of anything. 3822 01:34:55,857 --> 01:34:59,152 He emptied Himself 3823 01:34:55,857 --> 01:34:59,152 by becoming human. 3824 01:34:59,194 --> 01:35:01,655 You could say He emptied 3825 01:34:59,194 --> 01:35:01,655 Himself by addition. 3826 01:35:01,695 --> 01:35:04,782 It was just veiled underneath 3827 01:35:01,695 --> 01:35:04,782 truly human flesh. 3828 01:35:04,824 --> 01:35:06,868 In fact, at the Mount 3829 01:35:04,824 --> 01:35:06,868 of Transfiguration, 3830 01:35:06,909 --> 01:35:09,078 He pulled back the veil 3831 01:35:06,909 --> 01:35:09,078 of His flesh 3832 01:35:09,120 --> 01:35:10,704 and revealed His deity. 3833 01:35:10,746 --> 01:35:13,375 It was still there. 3834 01:35:10,746 --> 01:35:13,375 It was still intact. He was God. 3835 01:35:13,416 --> 01:35:16,961 But He had to lay 3836 01:35:13,416 --> 01:35:16,961 fully God aside. 3837 01:35:17,003 --> 01:35:19,506 It's not true that He laid 3838 01:35:17,003 --> 01:35:19,506 His deity aside. 3839 01:35:19,548 --> 01:35:22,217 But He laid His divinity aside, 3840 01:35:19,548 --> 01:35:22,217 humbled Himself. 3841 01:35:22,258 --> 01:35:23,426 [Johnson] 3842 01:35:22,258 --> 01:35:23,426 However, it doesn't mean 3843 01:35:23,468 --> 01:35:25,053 that His divine attributes 3844 01:35:25,094 --> 01:35:26,888 were in full use all the time. 3845 01:35:26,929 --> 01:35:28,557 He Himself said, 3846 01:35:26,929 --> 01:35:28,557 you know, 3847 01:35:28,598 --> 01:35:30,933 that He didn't know the time 3848 01:35:28,598 --> 01:35:30,933 of His own return. 3849 01:35:30,975 --> 01:35:33,144 But He didn't set 3850 01:35:30,975 --> 01:35:33,144 His omniscience 3851 01:35:33,186 --> 01:35:34,854 aside completely either. 3852 01:35:34,896 --> 01:35:37,148 When it served 3853 01:35:34,896 --> 01:35:37,148 the Father's purpose 3854 01:35:37,190 --> 01:35:39,942 for Him to know something 3855 01:35:37,190 --> 01:35:39,942 through His omniscience, He did. 3856 01:35:39,984 --> 01:35:42,195 So at the very end of John 2, 3857 01:35:39,984 --> 01:35:42,195 for example, it says, 3858 01:35:42,237 --> 01:35:44,322 He didn't need anybody 3859 01:35:42,237 --> 01:35:44,322 to tell Him what was in man. 3860 01:35:44,364 --> 01:35:46,199 He knew what was in man. 3861 01:35:46,241 --> 01:35:49,118 Usually, you'll hear people 3862 01:35:46,241 --> 01:35:49,118 who hold this doctrine say, 3863 01:35:49,160 --> 01:35:51,371 "Therefore, you and I, 3864 01:35:49,160 --> 01:35:51,371 if we have enough faith, 3865 01:35:51,413 --> 01:35:53,747 can do the same things 3866 01:35:51,413 --> 01:35:53,747 Jesus did, 3867 01:35:53,789 --> 01:35:56,668 because He did all His miracles 3868 01:35:53,789 --> 01:35:56,668 by the power of the Spirit, 3869 01:35:56,710 --> 01:35:59,753 not by His own 3870 01:35:56,710 --> 01:35:59,753 inherent divinity." 3871 01:35:59,795 --> 01:36:01,923 [Todd White] "Jesus knew 3872 01:35:59,795 --> 01:36:01,923 what they were thinking," 3873 01:36:01,964 --> 01:36:03,966 which means that me, 3874 01:36:01,964 --> 01:36:03,966 as a Christian, 3875 01:36:04,008 --> 01:36:05,510 can know what people 3876 01:36:04,008 --> 01:36:05,510 are thinking. 3877 01:36:05,552 --> 01:36:07,262 That's pretty crazy. 3878 01:36:07,303 --> 01:36:08,680 You better be ready for it, 3879 01:36:08,722 --> 01:36:10,432 'cause people think 3880 01:36:08,722 --> 01:36:10,432 some weird stuff. 3881 01:36:10,473 --> 01:36:12,183 This is a serious confusion 3882 01:36:12,225 --> 01:36:13,976 for a number of reasons. 3883 01:36:12,225 --> 01:36:13,976 Number one, 3884 01:36:14,018 --> 01:36:16,688 if you imagine 3885 01:36:14,018 --> 01:36:16,688 that the Spirit of God 3886 01:36:16,730 --> 01:36:20,774 is--is some foreign spirit 3887 01:36:16,730 --> 01:36:20,774 to Christ, 3888 01:36:20,816 --> 01:36:24,613 then you've got 3889 01:36:20,816 --> 01:36:24,613 a totally wrong idea 3890 01:36:20,816 --> 01:36:24,613 of the Trinity. 3891 01:36:24,654 --> 01:36:27,865 The spirit of God is often 3892 01:36:24,654 --> 01:36:27,865 called the Spirit of Christ. 3893 01:36:27,907 --> 01:36:30,243 [Nabeel] Here is the definition 3894 01:36:27,907 --> 01:36:30,243 of the Trinity. 3895 01:36:30,285 --> 01:36:32,704 If you write anything down 3896 01:36:30,285 --> 01:36:32,704 tonight, write this down. 3897 01:36:32,746 --> 01:36:37,667 God is one in being... 3898 01:36:37,709 --> 01:36:42,213 and three in person. 3899 01:36:42,255 --> 01:36:45,300 Now, that is not 3900 01:36:42,255 --> 01:36:45,300 a contradiction. 3901 01:36:45,341 --> 01:36:47,469 You see egregious statements 3902 01:36:45,341 --> 01:36:47,469 about God 3903 01:36:47,510 --> 01:36:51,180 being three persons within 3904 01:36:47,510 --> 01:36:51,180 each being of the Trinity, 3905 01:36:51,222 --> 01:36:53,182 and there being nine gods. 3906 01:36:53,224 --> 01:36:55,310 Each one of them 3907 01:36:55,351 --> 01:36:59,522 is a triune being by Himself. 3908 01:36:59,564 --> 01:37:02,567 If I can shock you, 3909 01:36:59,564 --> 01:37:02,567 and maybe I should, 3910 01:37:02,609 --> 01:37:04,902 there's nine of 'em. 3911 01:37:04,944 --> 01:37:09,073 Humans happen to be 3912 01:37:04,944 --> 01:37:09,073 one being and one person. 3913 01:37:09,115 --> 01:37:11,200 God is different. 3914 01:37:11,242 --> 01:37:13,119 God is one being. 3915 01:37:13,161 --> 01:37:15,538 Yahweh is what we call God. 3916 01:37:15,580 --> 01:37:17,206 But He's three persons-- 3917 01:37:17,248 --> 01:37:20,126 Father, Son, and Spirit. 3918 01:37:20,168 --> 01:37:23,463 No, Jesus didn't do 3919 01:37:20,168 --> 01:37:23,463 what He did as God. 3920 01:37:23,505 --> 01:37:25,047 He did what He did as a man 3921 01:37:25,089 --> 01:37:27,216 in perfect relationship 3922 01:37:25,089 --> 01:37:27,216 with the Father. 3923 01:37:27,258 --> 01:37:28,718 [Robert] Yes, Jesus was 3924 01:37:28,760 --> 01:37:30,261 fully imbued 3925 01:37:30,303 --> 01:37:32,138 with the presence 3926 01:37:30,303 --> 01:37:32,138 of the Holy Spirit in Him. 3927 01:37:32,180 --> 01:37:34,766 Yes, the Father was in Him 3928 01:37:32,180 --> 01:37:34,766 during the works. 3929 01:37:34,808 --> 01:37:36,976 But this is the way 3930 01:37:34,808 --> 01:37:36,976 it's always been eternally, 3931 01:37:37,018 --> 01:37:39,521 because as Father, Son, 3932 01:37:37,018 --> 01:37:39,521 and Holy Spirit, 3933 01:37:39,562 --> 01:37:42,273 the three persons 3934 01:37:39,562 --> 01:37:42,273 who are one God, 3935 01:37:42,315 --> 01:37:45,151 they always do 3936 01:37:42,315 --> 01:37:45,151 their works together. 3937 01:37:45,193 --> 01:37:47,278 Colossians chapter two 3938 01:37:47,320 --> 01:37:49,989 explicitly makes this clear 3939 01:37:47,320 --> 01:37:49,989 in verse nine 3940 01:37:50,031 --> 01:37:51,449 when it says of Jesus, 3941 01:37:51,491 --> 01:37:55,119 "...in Him the whole fullness 3942 01:37:51,491 --> 01:37:55,119 of the deity 3943 01:37:55,161 --> 01:37:56,746 dwells bodily." 3944 01:37:56,788 --> 01:37:59,999 So why is getting the deity 3945 01:37:56,788 --> 01:37:59,999 of Christ a big deal? 3946 01:38:00,041 --> 01:38:02,168 Because if we get the deity 3947 01:38:00,041 --> 01:38:02,168 of Christ wrong, 3948 01:38:02,210 --> 01:38:03,795 we get the gospel wrong. 3949 01:38:03,837 --> 01:38:06,422 He didn't say that He was 3950 01:38:03,837 --> 01:38:06,422 healing people as God... 3951 01:38:06,464 --> 01:38:08,758 [Rosebrough] If He had no power 3952 01:38:06,464 --> 01:38:08,758 to heal physically, 3953 01:38:08,800 --> 01:38:11,636 then He really wouldn't 3954 01:38:08,800 --> 01:38:11,636 have had the power 3955 01:38:11,678 --> 01:38:14,138 to save us spiritually, either. 3956 01:38:14,180 --> 01:38:17,433 He is the one mediator 3957 01:38:14,180 --> 01:38:17,433 between God and man. 3958 01:38:17,475 --> 01:38:19,394 And in order for Him 3959 01:38:17,475 --> 01:38:19,394 to serve in that role, 3960 01:38:19,435 --> 01:38:22,856 He has to be fully man 3961 01:38:19,435 --> 01:38:22,856 and fully God. 3962 01:38:22,896 --> 01:38:26,025 Only a human can pay the price 3963 01:38:22,896 --> 01:38:26,025 for human sin. 3964 01:38:26,067 --> 01:38:29,612 But only God can endure 3965 01:38:26,067 --> 01:38:29,612 the wrath of God. 3966 01:38:29,654 --> 01:38:32,448 And if our faith is in a Jesus 3967 01:38:29,654 --> 01:38:32,448 who wasn't truly God 3968 01:38:32,490 --> 01:38:34,242 all the way through the cross, 3969 01:38:34,283 --> 01:38:36,411 then how could He have been 3970 01:38:34,283 --> 01:38:36,411 the sinless 3971 01:38:36,452 --> 01:38:37,662 and acceptable sacrifice 3972 01:38:37,704 --> 01:38:39,372 who bore our sins on the cross? 3973 01:38:39,414 --> 01:38:42,041 He can't be. 3974 01:38:39,414 --> 01:38:42,041 That's why it's heretical. 3975 01:38:42,083 --> 01:38:44,460 [Robert] If He's not God 3976 01:38:42,083 --> 01:38:44,460 for one nanosecond, 3977 01:38:44,502 --> 01:38:46,045 He isn't the God of the Bible. 3978 01:38:46,087 --> 01:38:48,339 Because the God of the Bible 3979 01:38:46,087 --> 01:38:48,339 is immutably God. 3980 01:38:48,381 --> 01:38:50,924 He cannot stop being God 3981 01:38:48,381 --> 01:38:50,924 for one second. 3982 01:38:50,966 --> 01:38:52,552 [Rosebrough] And of course, 3983 01:38:50,966 --> 01:38:52,552 what they're trying to do 3984 01:38:52,594 --> 01:38:56,389 is to take Jesus 3985 01:38:52,594 --> 01:38:56,389 and diminish His deity 3986 01:38:56,431 --> 01:38:58,932 so that we can exalt humanity 3987 01:38:58,974 --> 01:39:01,185 to the point where 3988 01:38:58,974 --> 01:39:01,185 we're supposed to do 3989 01:39:01,227 --> 01:39:03,772 greater works 3990 01:39:01,227 --> 01:39:03,772 than Christ did miraculously. 3991 01:39:03,813 --> 01:39:05,398 That's the whole point. 3992 01:39:05,440 --> 01:39:08,150 [Bill] Anyone who thinks 3993 01:39:05,440 --> 01:39:08,150 they can represent the Father 3994 01:39:08,192 --> 01:39:09,985 without miracles, 3995 01:39:10,027 --> 01:39:12,530 do not understand the Father. 3996 01:39:12,572 --> 01:39:15,949 To think that I could 3997 01:39:12,572 --> 01:39:15,949 adequately display 3998 01:39:15,991 --> 01:39:17,368 the love of God without power 3999 01:39:17,410 --> 01:39:19,203 is absolute nonsense. 4000 01:39:19,245 --> 01:39:21,456 It is an absolute insult 4001 01:39:21,497 --> 01:39:22,791 to the gospel. 4002 01:39:22,832 --> 01:39:24,417 [Costi] A lot of faith 4003 01:39:22,832 --> 01:39:24,417 healers today 4004 01:39:24,459 --> 01:39:26,377 say that if you don't have 4005 01:39:24,459 --> 01:39:26,377 signs and wonders 4006 01:39:26,419 --> 01:39:28,671 accompanying your teaching 4007 01:39:26,419 --> 01:39:28,671 of the gospel, 4008 01:39:28,713 --> 01:39:30,381 then you don't have true power. 4009 01:39:30,423 --> 01:39:33,593 If the preaching of the gospel 4010 01:39:30,423 --> 01:39:33,593 lacks signs and wonders, 4011 01:39:33,635 --> 01:39:35,887 it's an empty shell. 4012 01:39:35,929 --> 01:39:37,889 [Russell] But scripture says 4013 01:39:35,929 --> 01:39:37,889 something entirely different. 4014 01:39:37,931 --> 01:39:40,224 [Katherine] People who 4015 01:39:37,931 --> 01:39:40,224 are healed by Jesus Himself, 4016 01:39:40,266 --> 01:39:44,061 who actually had the miracle 4017 01:39:40,266 --> 01:39:44,061 of healing come from Jesus, 4018 01:39:44,103 --> 01:39:47,022 still did not repent 4019 01:39:44,103 --> 01:39:47,022 and believe. 4020 01:39:47,064 --> 01:39:48,691 The miracle of the ten lepers, 4021 01:39:48,733 --> 01:39:50,443 which is in Luke 17, 4022 01:39:50,485 --> 01:39:52,278 only one of them returned 4023 01:39:52,320 --> 01:39:55,364 to praise Jesus 4024 01:39:52,320 --> 01:39:55,364 and to praise God. 4025 01:39:55,406 --> 01:39:56,950 I've seen examples 4026 01:39:56,990 --> 01:39:59,327 of people who claim 4027 01:39:56,990 --> 01:39:59,327 to be Christians, 4028 01:39:59,368 --> 01:40:01,036 going out in public 4029 01:40:01,078 --> 01:40:04,457 and encountering people 4030 01:40:01,078 --> 01:40:04,457 who don't know Jesus, 4031 01:40:04,499 --> 01:40:07,502 and rather than sharing 4032 01:40:04,499 --> 01:40:07,502 the gospel with them, 4033 01:40:07,543 --> 01:40:09,128 they avoid that entirely 4034 01:40:09,170 --> 01:40:11,756 and they shoot straight 4035 01:40:09,170 --> 01:40:11,756 to signs and wonders. 4036 01:40:11,798 --> 01:40:14,676 [Justin] And apparently, there 4037 01:40:11,798 --> 01:40:14,676 is an epidemic in this country 4038 01:40:14,717 --> 01:40:16,511 of people with having one leg 4039 01:40:16,552 --> 01:40:18,513 just a little bit shorter 4040 01:40:16,552 --> 01:40:18,513 than the other. 4041 01:40:18,554 --> 01:40:20,013 [Costi] In every sense, 4042 01:40:20,055 --> 01:40:22,391 I would say Todd White 4043 01:40:20,055 --> 01:40:22,391 is as much a magician 4044 01:40:22,433 --> 01:40:24,894 as he claims to be a man of God. 4045 01:40:24,936 --> 01:40:27,229 [David] I would go around 4046 01:40:24,936 --> 01:40:27,229 and look for people 4047 01:40:27,271 --> 01:40:30,149 that were like limping 4048 01:40:27,271 --> 01:40:30,149 with obvious sicknesses. 4049 01:40:30,191 --> 01:40:32,819 Is there any problems at all, 4050 01:40:30,191 --> 01:40:32,819 physically? 4051 01:40:32,861 --> 01:40:34,529 Ah, my back isn't the best. 4052 01:40:34,570 --> 01:40:36,948 And I'd go up to them 4053 01:40:34,570 --> 01:40:36,948 and ask to pray for them. 4054 01:40:36,990 --> 01:40:39,784 They tell your one leg's 4055 01:40:36,990 --> 01:40:39,784 shorter than the other one 4056 01:40:39,826 --> 01:40:41,327 and it throws your back out. 4057 01:40:41,369 --> 01:40:44,413 [Steve] So this is the 4058 01:40:41,369 --> 01:40:44,413 Holy Ghost film from 2014. 4059 01:40:44,455 --> 01:40:46,541 This is a really great trick. 4060 01:40:46,582 --> 01:40:48,125 And you're gonna see 4061 01:40:46,582 --> 01:40:48,125 in a moment here 4062 01:40:48,167 --> 01:40:49,878 that it is a trick. 4063 01:40:49,919 --> 01:40:52,213 [Todd] So what I'll do, 4064 01:40:49,919 --> 01:40:52,213 regardless of what you believe, 4065 01:40:52,254 --> 01:40:53,548 I'm gonna pray for you. 4066 01:40:53,589 --> 01:40:55,257 And Jesus is gonna grow 4067 01:40:53,589 --> 01:40:55,257 your leg out 4068 01:40:55,299 --> 01:40:56,592 and heal your back. 4069 01:40:56,634 --> 01:40:59,052 Charlatans 4070 01:40:56,634 --> 01:40:59,052 and snake oil salesmen 4071 01:40:59,094 --> 01:41:01,806 have been doing this trick 4072 01:40:59,094 --> 01:41:01,806 for decades. 4073 01:41:01,848 --> 01:41:03,265 It's sleight of hand. 4074 01:41:03,307 --> 01:41:05,560 [Todd] So Father, I thank You 4075 01:41:03,307 --> 01:41:05,560 in Jesus' name. 4076 01:41:05,601 --> 01:41:08,688 Left leg, I command you grow 4077 01:41:05,601 --> 01:41:08,688 right now. 4078 01:41:08,730 --> 01:41:10,356 Jesus' name. 4079 01:41:10,398 --> 01:41:12,525 -[man #1] Look at it. See it? 4080 01:41:10,398 --> 01:41:12,525 -[man #2] Mm-hm. 4081 01:41:12,567 --> 01:41:14,193 [man #1] Look at that! 4082 01:41:14,235 --> 01:41:15,486 [man #1] Do you guys see that 4083 01:41:14,235 --> 01:41:15,486 right there? 4084 01:41:15,528 --> 01:41:17,196 -[man #2] Yes. 4085 01:41:15,528 --> 01:41:17,196 -[woman] Yeah. 4086 01:41:17,238 --> 01:41:19,991 [man #1] It's longer now 4087 01:41:17,238 --> 01:41:19,991 than the other one. 4088 01:41:20,033 --> 01:41:22,159 And then, if I was done, 4089 01:41:20,033 --> 01:41:22,159 if they received it well, 4090 01:41:22,201 --> 01:41:23,745 which most did, I'd be like, 4091 01:41:23,786 --> 01:41:25,538 "Oh, God loves you so much. 4092 01:41:23,786 --> 01:41:25,538 Have a good day." 4093 01:41:25,580 --> 01:41:27,916 I'm not, like, out here 4094 01:41:25,580 --> 01:41:27,916 to say you need to-- 4095 01:41:27,957 --> 01:41:29,667 no, dude, God loves you, bro, 4096 01:41:29,709 --> 01:41:31,252 and that's it, man. 4097 01:41:31,293 --> 01:41:32,879 Semper fi, man. 4098 01:41:32,921 --> 01:41:35,506 Now we're gonna see 4099 01:41:32,921 --> 01:41:35,506 Todd White's clip, 4100 01:41:35,548 --> 01:41:37,633 sped up quite a bit 4101 01:41:35,548 --> 01:41:37,633 and looped back and forth. 4102 01:41:37,675 --> 01:41:40,261 Now this is where 4103 01:41:37,675 --> 01:41:40,261 we can see 4104 01:41:40,302 --> 01:41:41,971 what's really going on here. 4105 01:41:42,013 --> 01:41:44,348 The leg on our right is 4106 01:41:42,013 --> 01:41:44,348 supposed to be the short leg, 4107 01:41:44,390 --> 01:41:46,684 and this is the leg which 4108 01:41:44,390 --> 01:41:46,684 should be miraculously growing, 4109 01:41:46,726 --> 01:41:48,227 but it's not. 4110 01:41:48,269 --> 01:41:50,396 Look at the leg on our left. 4111 01:41:50,438 --> 01:41:51,940 That's where all the action is, 4112 01:41:51,981 --> 01:41:54,233 that's what's actually 4113 01:41:51,981 --> 01:41:54,233 being manipulated. 4114 01:41:54,275 --> 01:41:56,277 You can see that Todd 4115 01:41:54,275 --> 01:41:56,277 is actually pivoting 4116 01:41:56,318 --> 01:41:59,280 or shifting the foot 4117 01:41:56,318 --> 01:41:59,280 of the so-called "long leg" 4118 01:41:59,321 --> 01:42:00,740 so that the heels match. 4119 01:42:00,782 --> 01:42:03,158 Now, he's doing this 4120 01:42:00,782 --> 01:42:03,158 very slowly over time, 4121 01:42:03,200 --> 01:42:06,245 but it's painfully obvious 4122 01:42:03,200 --> 01:42:06,245 when you speed up the clip. 4123 01:42:06,287 --> 01:42:08,039 [Justin] And what he is doing 4124 01:42:08,081 --> 01:42:09,457 is the most hateful thing 4125 01:42:09,498 --> 01:42:11,459 you could possibly do 4126 01:42:09,498 --> 01:42:11,459 for someone. 4127 01:42:11,500 --> 01:42:14,879 Men like Todd White 4128 01:42:11,500 --> 01:42:14,879 preach a gospel 4129 01:42:14,921 --> 01:42:16,505 that is centered on love. 4130 01:42:16,547 --> 01:42:19,132 The problem is, 4131 01:42:16,547 --> 01:42:19,132 it's not biblical love. 4132 01:42:19,174 --> 01:42:20,927 Biblical love confronts sin. 4133 01:42:20,969 --> 01:42:22,887 [over portable P.A.] 4134 01:42:20,969 --> 01:42:22,887 We are all born sinners! 4135 01:42:22,929 --> 01:42:25,431 We are all born 4136 01:42:22,929 --> 01:42:25,431 in need of a savior! 4137 01:42:25,473 --> 01:42:26,933 God is alive! 4138 01:42:26,975 --> 01:42:30,561 [Emilio] If we really understand 4139 01:42:26,975 --> 01:42:30,561 God's love, 4140 01:42:30,603 --> 01:42:32,396 then we understand 4141 01:42:30,603 --> 01:42:32,396 that God's love 4142 01:42:32,438 --> 01:42:34,440 is a holy love. 4143 01:42:34,482 --> 01:42:36,818 That because God is so loving, 4144 01:42:36,859 --> 01:42:41,572 He must simultaneously 4145 01:42:36,859 --> 01:42:41,572 reject and hate evil. 4146 01:42:41,614 --> 01:42:45,118 [David] Well, when I saw anyone 4147 01:42:41,614 --> 01:42:45,118 preaching the real gospel, 4148 01:42:45,158 --> 01:42:47,369 which is salvation 4149 01:42:45,158 --> 01:42:47,369 through the cross, 4150 01:42:47,411 --> 01:42:50,039 well, I thought 4151 01:42:47,411 --> 01:42:50,039 that was kinda unloving 4152 01:42:47,411 --> 01:42:50,039 'cause they'd talk about sin. 4153 01:42:50,081 --> 01:42:52,458 [over P.A.] Every one of us 4154 01:42:50,081 --> 01:42:52,458 has broken His laws. 4155 01:42:52,500 --> 01:42:54,167 [Emilio] My experience has been, 4156 01:42:54,209 --> 01:42:56,587 even those 4157 01:42:54,209 --> 01:42:56,587 that call themselves Christians, 4158 01:42:56,629 --> 01:42:58,422 they will oppose you. 4159 01:42:58,464 --> 01:43:01,216 They reject 4160 01:42:58,464 --> 01:43:01,216 a gospel presentation 4161 01:43:01,258 --> 01:43:04,053 that includes 4162 01:43:01,258 --> 01:43:04,053 calling people to repent. 4163 01:43:04,095 --> 01:43:06,597 [over P.A.] 4164 01:43:04,095 --> 01:43:06,597 Repent and believe 4165 01:43:04,095 --> 01:43:06,597 in the gospel! 4166 01:43:06,639 --> 01:43:09,224 [Todd] I'm not, like, 4167 01:43:06,639 --> 01:43:09,224 out here to say you need to-- 4168 01:43:09,266 --> 01:43:11,226 [Steve] "I'm not out here to say 4169 01:43:09,266 --> 01:43:11,226 you need to..." 4170 01:43:11,268 --> 01:43:14,438 I think he's choosing 4171 01:43:11,268 --> 01:43:14,438 not to use the word "repent," 4172 01:43:14,480 --> 01:43:15,898 which is what Christians 4173 01:43:14,480 --> 01:43:15,898 historically 4174 01:43:15,940 --> 01:43:17,775 have always talked about. 4175 01:43:17,817 --> 01:43:19,234 That is the reason why 4176 01:43:19,276 --> 01:43:21,779 many people will refuse 4177 01:43:19,276 --> 01:43:21,779 to become a Christian. 4178 01:43:21,821 --> 01:43:23,865 They don't wanna repent. 4179 01:43:21,821 --> 01:43:23,865 They don't wanna give up 4180 01:43:21,821 --> 01:43:23,865 their sin. 4181 01:43:23,906 --> 01:43:25,449 They like sinning. 4182 01:43:25,491 --> 01:43:28,661 [Russell] This method 4183 01:43:25,491 --> 01:43:28,661 of evangelism by blessing, 4184 01:43:28,703 --> 01:43:30,955 it's changing the gospel from 4185 01:43:30,997 --> 01:43:33,624 "You are dead in your sins, 4186 01:43:33,666 --> 01:43:37,419 and this is what you need 4187 01:43:33,666 --> 01:43:37,419 by God's grace: 4188 01:43:37,461 --> 01:43:38,629 Repentance and faith." 4189 01:43:38,671 --> 01:43:40,506 It's changing that message to, 4190 01:43:40,548 --> 01:43:43,592 "God loves you, He accepts you. 4191 01:43:40,548 --> 01:43:43,592 Here's some free stuff." 4192 01:43:43,634 --> 01:43:45,761 He will cure you 4193 01:43:43,634 --> 01:43:45,761 of your ailments. 4194 01:43:45,803 --> 01:43:47,471 He'll fix your back pain. 4195 01:43:47,513 --> 01:43:49,557 He prayed for me, 4196 01:43:47,513 --> 01:43:49,557 my back got healed. 4197 01:43:49,598 --> 01:43:52,434 Prayed for my girlfriend, 4198 01:43:49,598 --> 01:43:52,434 her head got healed. 4199 01:43:52,476 --> 01:43:53,769 My ankle got healed. 4200 01:43:53,811 --> 01:43:55,604 He helped to get clothes 4201 01:43:53,811 --> 01:43:55,604 for my family. 4202 01:43:55,646 --> 01:43:57,230 And now God told him 4203 01:43:55,646 --> 01:43:57,230 to get a guitar. 4204 01:43:57,272 --> 01:43:59,400 God's buying me 4205 01:43:57,272 --> 01:43:59,400 this guitar, man. 4206 01:43:59,441 --> 01:44:01,694 Because you're doing 4207 01:43:59,441 --> 01:44:01,694 the gospel, man. 4208 01:44:01,736 --> 01:44:03,154 Can I shake your hand? 4209 01:44:03,196 --> 01:44:05,114 'Cause this is what Jesus 4210 01:44:03,196 --> 01:44:05,114 would do. 4211 01:44:05,156 --> 01:44:07,282 We don't live the gospel, 4212 01:44:07,324 --> 01:44:09,368 we don't "do" the gospel, 4213 01:44:09,410 --> 01:44:11,204 we receive it by faith. 4214 01:44:11,244 --> 01:44:13,206 [Dr. Lawson] 4215 01:44:11,244 --> 01:44:13,206 "Faith comes by hearing, 4216 01:44:13,246 --> 01:44:15,666 and hearing 4217 01:44:13,246 --> 01:44:15,666 by the word of Christ." 4218 01:44:15,708 --> 01:44:17,919 We have to speak to them 4219 01:44:15,708 --> 01:44:17,919 the gospel. 4220 01:44:17,960 --> 01:44:20,337 We have to preach the gospel. 4221 01:44:20,379 --> 01:44:23,382 It's not enough that 4222 01:44:20,379 --> 01:44:23,382 you just live a godly life 4223 01:44:23,424 --> 01:44:25,426 before others-- 4224 01:44:23,424 --> 01:44:25,426 if that's all it is, 4225 01:44:25,467 --> 01:44:28,096 they'll go to hell 4226 01:44:25,467 --> 01:44:28,096 thinking you're a good person. 4227 01:44:28,137 --> 01:44:32,474 [David] I thought that 4228 01:44:28,137 --> 01:44:32,474 if you go and heal someone, 4229 01:44:28,137 --> 01:44:32,474 or give someone money, 4230 01:44:32,516 --> 01:44:34,602 or just tell 'em, 4231 01:44:32,516 --> 01:44:34,602 "Oh, Jesus loves you 4232 01:44:32,516 --> 01:44:34,602 so much, man"... 4233 01:44:34,643 --> 01:44:36,729 [Todd] 4234 01:44:34,643 --> 01:44:36,729 Jesus loves you so much. 4235 01:44:36,771 --> 01:44:39,356 ...that the goodness of God 4236 01:44:36,771 --> 01:44:39,356 would lead them to repentance. 4237 01:44:39,398 --> 01:44:40,733 God's goodness 4238 01:44:40,775 --> 01:44:41,984 does lead us to repentance. 4239 01:44:42,026 --> 01:44:43,569 But sometimes, God's goodness 4240 01:44:43,611 --> 01:44:44,987 doesn't look like 4241 01:44:43,611 --> 01:44:44,987 what we think it looks like. 4242 01:44:45,029 --> 01:44:46,363 Sometimes, God's goodness 4243 01:44:46,405 --> 01:44:48,866 is telling us 4244 01:44:46,405 --> 01:44:48,866 how bad we really are. 4245 01:44:48,908 --> 01:44:52,161 I love you enough 4246 01:44:48,908 --> 01:44:52,161 to tell you the truth! 4247 01:44:52,203 --> 01:44:53,996 [Steve] 4248 01:44:52,203 --> 01:44:53,996 So when you come along and say, 4249 01:44:54,038 --> 01:44:56,665 "You're great, you're special, 4250 01:44:54,038 --> 01:44:56,665 you're amazing." 4251 01:44:56,707 --> 01:44:58,500 [Todd] God loves you, 4252 01:44:56,707 --> 01:44:58,500 and you're amazing. 4253 01:44:58,542 --> 01:45:00,293 [Steve] "God is, you know, 4254 01:44:58,542 --> 01:45:00,293 crazy about you." 4255 01:45:00,335 --> 01:45:02,421 [Todd] God's so impressed 4256 01:45:00,335 --> 01:45:02,421 and so amazed by you. 4257 01:45:02,463 --> 01:45:03,923 You're amazing. 4258 01:45:03,965 --> 01:45:06,092 This is the opposite 4259 01:45:03,965 --> 01:45:06,092 of what people need to hear. 4260 01:45:06,134 --> 01:45:07,885 When they're at war with God, 4261 01:45:07,927 --> 01:45:09,637 they don't need to be told 4262 01:45:07,927 --> 01:45:09,637 how great they are. 4263 01:45:09,678 --> 01:45:11,722 They need to be told 4264 01:45:09,678 --> 01:45:11,722 that they are at war with God. 4265 01:45:11,764 --> 01:45:14,767 To withhold the bad news, 4266 01:45:11,764 --> 01:45:14,767 is to share half the gospel. 4267 01:45:14,809 --> 01:45:18,146 To share half the gospel 4268 01:45:14,809 --> 01:45:18,146 is to not share the full gospel. 4269 01:45:18,187 --> 01:45:22,150 We deserve hell for eternity 4270 01:45:18,187 --> 01:45:22,150 because of our lawbreaking. 4271 01:45:22,191 --> 01:45:24,693 And it's only through 4272 01:45:22,191 --> 01:45:24,693 Christ's death on the cross, 4273 01:45:24,735 --> 01:45:26,154 burial and resurrection, 4274 01:45:26,195 --> 01:45:28,614 that He paid that penalty 4275 01:45:26,195 --> 01:45:28,614 for our sins. 4276 01:45:28,656 --> 01:45:30,074 [Emilio] The problem is not 4277 01:45:30,116 --> 01:45:32,325 that the preacher 4278 01:45:30,116 --> 01:45:32,325 has the wrong method. 4279 01:45:32,367 --> 01:45:33,577 Jesus said, 4280 01:45:33,619 --> 01:45:36,538 "You can raise someone 4281 01:45:33,619 --> 01:45:36,538 from the dead, 4282 01:45:36,580 --> 01:45:39,374 and still, 4283 01:45:36,580 --> 01:45:39,374 people will not believe." 4284 01:45:39,416 --> 01:45:42,003 And that is why 4285 01:45:39,416 --> 01:45:42,003 we faithfully preach the gospel. 4286 01:45:42,044 --> 01:45:43,545 Because we know that, 4287 01:45:43,587 --> 01:45:46,132 as much as someone 4288 01:45:43,587 --> 01:45:46,132 will violently reject it, 4289 01:45:46,174 --> 01:45:48,341 it is the means that God uses 4290 01:45:48,383 --> 01:45:50,970 to bring His people 4291 01:45:48,383 --> 01:45:50,970 to repentance and faith. 4292 01:45:51,012 --> 01:45:52,513 [Anthony] We never 4293 01:45:51,012 --> 01:45:52,513 wanna withhold 4294 01:45:52,554 --> 01:45:54,974 any portion of the gospel 4295 01:45:52,554 --> 01:45:54,974 from people, 4296 01:45:55,016 --> 01:45:57,310 thinking that somehow 4297 01:45:55,016 --> 01:45:57,310 we can trick them 4298 01:45:57,350 --> 01:46:00,855 or fool them 4299 01:45:57,350 --> 01:46:00,855 into the kingdom of God. 4300 01:46:00,896 --> 01:46:03,524 [Costi] Some of the questions 4301 01:46:00,896 --> 01:46:03,524 I had growing up, 4302 01:46:03,565 --> 01:46:04,984 when I was in healing crusades 4303 01:46:05,026 --> 01:46:07,278 with my uncle or my father was, 4304 01:46:07,320 --> 01:46:09,113 "If we have these gifts 4305 01:46:07,320 --> 01:46:09,113 of healing, 4306 01:46:09,155 --> 01:46:11,573 and we can do this for people, 4307 01:46:11,615 --> 01:46:13,201 why don't we go to hospitals?" 4308 01:46:13,242 --> 01:46:14,952 [David] It was very overwhelming 4309 01:46:14,994 --> 01:46:16,453 having to feel 4310 01:46:14,994 --> 01:46:16,453 that I had to pray 4311 01:46:16,495 --> 01:46:19,040 for every single person 4312 01:46:16,495 --> 01:46:19,040 that was sick. 4313 01:46:19,081 --> 01:46:21,583 And I overthink things, 4314 01:46:21,625 --> 01:46:23,460 so I would think things like, 4315 01:46:23,502 --> 01:46:25,754 "Everyone with glasses 4316 01:46:23,502 --> 01:46:25,754 needs healing." 4317 01:46:25,796 --> 01:46:27,464 And then I'd looked around 4318 01:46:25,796 --> 01:46:27,464 and, like, 4319 01:46:27,506 --> 01:46:29,382 more than half the population 4320 01:46:27,506 --> 01:46:29,382 is wearing glasses. 4321 01:46:29,424 --> 01:46:30,676 So I'd be like, 4322 01:46:29,424 --> 01:46:30,676 "God, you really expect me 4323 01:46:30,718 --> 01:46:32,469 to heal 4324 01:46:30,718 --> 01:46:32,469 all these people? Like..." 4325 01:46:32,511 --> 01:46:33,846 "Why can't we go to my school? 4326 01:46:33,888 --> 01:46:35,514 Why can't we go 4327 01:46:33,888 --> 01:46:35,514 to my friend's house 4328 01:46:35,556 --> 01:46:37,933 and heal my friend of cancer, 4329 01:46:35,556 --> 01:46:37,933 in high school? 4330 01:46:37,975 --> 01:46:41,270 Why can't we do 4331 01:46:37,975 --> 01:46:41,270 what we say we do? 4332 01:46:37,975 --> 01:46:41,270 Why do we need music?" 4333 01:46:41,312 --> 01:46:43,314 [Benny Hinn] 4334 01:46:41,312 --> 01:46:43,314 I wanna hear the instruments. 4335 01:46:43,356 --> 01:46:45,649 -I wanna hear the strings. 4336 01:46:43,356 --> 01:46:45,649 -David] And one time I saw 4337 01:46:45,691 --> 01:46:49,862 Bill Johnson ask someone, 4338 01:46:45,691 --> 01:46:49,862 "Who got healing in their eyes?" 4339 01:46:49,904 --> 01:46:51,613 [[Bill Johnson] 4340 01:46:49,904 --> 01:46:51,613 How many of you, the sight, 4341 01:46:51,655 --> 01:46:53,615 something was healed 4342 01:46:51,655 --> 01:46:53,615 with your eye? 4343 01:46:53,657 --> 01:46:55,243 Put your hand up right now. 4344 01:46:55,284 --> 01:46:57,036 [David] Okay, you can command 4345 01:46:55,284 --> 01:46:57,036 dead people to rise up, 4346 01:46:57,078 --> 01:46:58,746 and people 4347 01:46:57,078 --> 01:46:58,746 to get out of wheelchairs, 4348 01:46:58,787 --> 01:47:00,831 then why are you still 4349 01:46:58,787 --> 01:47:00,831 wearing glasses? 4350 01:47:00,873 --> 01:47:02,583 That doesn't makes sense. 4351 01:47:02,624 --> 01:47:05,961 [Justin] I've been to 17 4352 01:47:02,624 --> 01:47:05,961 different Benny Hinn crusades 4353 01:47:06,003 --> 01:47:07,629 as part of my research. 4354 01:47:07,671 --> 01:47:09,048 And on one of these, 4355 01:47:09,090 --> 01:47:11,342 I was being interviewed 4356 01:47:09,090 --> 01:47:11,342 for a documentary 4357 01:47:11,384 --> 01:47:12,885 that was being done 4358 01:47:11,384 --> 01:47:12,885 on Benny Hinn. 4359 01:47:12,927 --> 01:47:16,180 And you see me trying to get up 4360 01:47:12,927 --> 01:47:16,180 on the platform. 4361 01:47:16,222 --> 01:47:17,848 Well, there was a lady 4362 01:47:17,890 --> 01:47:19,975 who was on the Benny Hinn staff, 4363 01:47:17,890 --> 01:47:19,975 she was talking with me, 4364 01:47:20,017 --> 01:47:21,852 I'm standing there 4365 01:47:20,017 --> 01:47:21,852 on my crutches, 4366 01:47:21,894 --> 01:47:25,022 and you see this man come up 4367 01:47:21,894 --> 01:47:25,022 and whisper in her ear. 4368 01:47:25,064 --> 01:47:27,858 And the man you see 4369 01:47:25,064 --> 01:47:27,858 is Henry Hinn, 4370 01:47:27,900 --> 01:47:29,235 Benny Hinn's brother. 4371 01:47:29,277 --> 01:47:31,737 Henry is Costi's father. 4372 01:47:31,779 --> 01:47:33,114 Henry Hinn whispers in her ear. 4373 01:47:33,155 --> 01:47:35,199 And then this lady tells me 4374 01:47:33,155 --> 01:47:35,199 immediately, 4375 01:47:35,241 --> 01:47:37,659 she says, "Sir, just step aside 4376 01:47:37,701 --> 01:47:39,787 and pray for your healing." 4377 01:47:39,828 --> 01:47:41,038 What was going on there 4378 01:47:41,080 --> 01:47:43,624 is that 4379 01:47:41,080 --> 01:47:43,624 they are screening people. 4380 01:47:43,665 --> 01:47:46,085 And they are keeping 4381 01:47:43,665 --> 01:47:46,085 the truly sick, 4382 01:47:46,127 --> 01:47:48,712 the obviously sick, 4383 01:47:46,127 --> 01:47:48,712 the obviously handicapped people 4384 01:47:48,754 --> 01:47:50,631 away from the platform. 4385 01:47:50,672 --> 01:47:52,425 [Costi] It's hard to sleep 4386 01:47:50,672 --> 01:47:52,425 at night 4387 01:47:52,465 --> 01:47:54,051 when there's dying babies 4388 01:47:54,093 --> 01:47:55,970 whose moms brought them 4389 01:47:54,093 --> 01:47:55,970 to the crusade services 4390 01:47:56,011 --> 01:47:57,388 'cause your uncle 4391 01:47:56,011 --> 01:47:57,388 could heal them, 4392 01:47:57,430 --> 01:47:59,765 and they gave 4393 01:47:57,430 --> 01:47:59,765 their best offering, 4394 01:47:59,807 --> 01:48:01,474 but they went home sick. 4395 01:48:01,516 --> 01:48:03,560 [Justin] In the back, 4396 01:48:01,516 --> 01:48:03,560 on the floor, 4397 01:48:03,602 --> 01:48:07,648 are dozens, and dozens, 4398 01:48:03,602 --> 01:48:07,648 and dozens of sick people. 4399 01:48:07,689 --> 01:48:10,609 I've seen parents 4400 01:48:07,689 --> 01:48:10,609 with dying children, 4401 01:48:10,651 --> 01:48:13,070 literally, dying children 4402 01:48:10,651 --> 01:48:13,070 in their arms, 4403 01:48:13,112 --> 01:48:16,031 some of them hooked up 4404 01:48:13,112 --> 01:48:16,031 to breathing machines. 4405 01:48:16,073 --> 01:48:18,242 The only people 4406 01:48:16,073 --> 01:48:18,242 who are allowed up 4407 01:48:18,284 --> 01:48:19,827 on Benny Hinn's platform 4408 01:48:19,868 --> 01:48:21,662 are people who have a malady 4409 01:48:21,703 --> 01:48:23,789 that cannot be readily seen. 4410 01:48:23,831 --> 01:48:26,167 It's always diseases 4411 01:48:23,831 --> 01:48:26,167 or conditions 4412 01:48:26,208 --> 01:48:27,835 that can be overcome with 4413 01:48:27,876 --> 01:48:31,797 temporary rush of adrenaline 4414 01:48:27,876 --> 01:48:31,797 or emotion, 4415 01:48:31,839 --> 01:48:33,548 psychosomatic healings. 4416 01:48:33,590 --> 01:48:36,969 You never see anyone 4417 01:48:33,590 --> 01:48:36,969 who looks like me 4418 01:48:37,011 --> 01:48:38,262 allowed up on the platform 4419 01:48:38,304 --> 01:48:39,930 because I can't hide 4420 01:48:38,304 --> 01:48:39,930 my condition. 4421 01:48:39,972 --> 01:48:42,266 And no matter 4422 01:48:39,972 --> 01:48:42,266 how excited I may get, 4423 01:48:42,308 --> 01:48:44,268 if you take my crutches 4424 01:48:42,308 --> 01:48:44,268 away from me, 4425 01:48:44,310 --> 01:48:45,811 I'm going down. 4426 01:48:45,853 --> 01:48:47,188 [Costi] It's hard to sleep 4427 01:48:45,853 --> 01:48:47,188 at night 4428 01:48:47,229 --> 01:48:50,941 when you see 4429 01:48:47,229 --> 01:48:50,941 wheelchair-bound women 4430 01:48:50,983 --> 01:48:52,567 holding their children 4431 01:48:52,609 --> 01:48:55,279 and your family promises them 4432 01:48:52,609 --> 01:48:55,279 health and hope, 4433 01:48:55,321 --> 01:48:57,031 and you can't give it to them. 4434 01:48:57,072 --> 01:48:58,573 But you take their offering, 4435 01:48:58,615 --> 01:49:00,784 then you go live large off it-- 4436 01:48:58,615 --> 01:49:00,784 that's hard. 4437 01:49:00,826 --> 01:49:03,037 It's not difficult 4438 01:49:00,826 --> 01:49:03,037 to stand up for truth, 4439 01:49:03,078 --> 01:49:04,455 it's hard to live a lie. 4440 01:49:04,497 --> 01:49:07,166 [Benny Hinn] 4441 01:49:04,497 --> 01:49:07,166 And we are not ashamed 4442 01:49:07,208 --> 01:49:08,792 of prosperity, 4443 01:49:08,834 --> 01:49:11,795 nor will we apologize 4444 01:49:08,834 --> 01:49:11,795 for prosperity. 4445 01:49:11,837 --> 01:49:14,965 Because it is the promise 4446 01:49:11,837 --> 01:49:14,965 of our Heavenly Father, 4447 01:49:15,007 --> 01:49:17,926 who owns the cattle 4448 01:49:15,007 --> 01:49:17,926 on a thousand hills! 4449 01:49:17,968 --> 01:49:19,220 [congregation applauds] 4450 01:49:19,261 --> 01:49:20,595 [Costi] One of the most 4451 01:49:19,261 --> 01:49:20,595 painful parts 4452 01:49:20,637 --> 01:49:22,515 of standing up for truth 4453 01:49:22,555 --> 01:49:26,143 is the losses that can come 4454 01:49:22,555 --> 01:49:26,143 relationally. 4455 01:49:26,185 --> 01:49:29,271 [Nabeel] For Muslims, 4456 01:49:26,185 --> 01:49:29,271 the gospel is often, 4457 01:49:29,313 --> 01:49:31,606 literally, a call to die. 4458 01:49:31,648 --> 01:49:35,777 The cost of accepting the gospel 4459 01:49:31,648 --> 01:49:35,777 could be your family, 4460 01:49:35,819 --> 01:49:37,654 but it's worth it. 4461 01:49:37,696 --> 01:49:39,781 One thing 4462 01:49:37,696 --> 01:49:39,781 I've never sought to do 4463 01:49:39,823 --> 01:49:41,367 is bring down my family. 4464 01:49:41,409 --> 01:49:43,952 This is not my smear campaign 4465 01:49:41,409 --> 01:49:43,952 against my uncle. 4466 01:49:43,994 --> 01:49:46,205 [Costi] My family is the most 4467 01:49:43,994 --> 01:49:46,205 loving family, 4468 01:49:46,247 --> 01:49:48,832 the most kind people, 4469 01:49:46,247 --> 01:49:48,832 they're affectionate. 4470 01:49:48,874 --> 01:49:50,583 My dad always told me 4471 01:49:48,874 --> 01:49:50,583 he was proud of me. 4472 01:49:50,625 --> 01:49:52,211 My mom always told me 4473 01:49:50,625 --> 01:49:52,211 she loved me. 4474 01:49:52,253 --> 01:49:54,629 My sisters are amazing women. 4475 01:49:54,671 --> 01:49:56,173 I love my family. 4476 01:49:56,215 --> 01:49:59,427 But the reality is, 4477 01:49:56,215 --> 01:49:59,427 I love Jesus more. 4478 01:49:59,468 --> 01:50:02,930 The gospel divides unbelievers 4479 01:49:59,468 --> 01:50:02,930 from believers. 4480 01:50:02,971 --> 01:50:05,682 The Lord Jesus wants unity. 4481 01:50:05,724 --> 01:50:07,351 [Mike] Doctrine is what divides. 4482 01:50:07,393 --> 01:50:09,895 In fact, it was 4483 01:50:07,393 --> 01:50:09,895 the Lord Jesus Christ, 4484 01:50:09,937 --> 01:50:11,355 who came to divide, 4485 01:50:11,397 --> 01:50:12,605 He came with a sword 4486 01:50:12,647 --> 01:50:13,982 to divide mother 4487 01:50:12,647 --> 01:50:13,982 against daughter, 4488 01:50:14,024 --> 01:50:16,360 father against son. 4489 01:50:16,402 --> 01:50:18,028 So often today, we hear about 4490 01:50:18,070 --> 01:50:19,905 the desire, the quest for unity. 4491 01:50:19,947 --> 01:50:22,783 I believe 4492 01:50:19,947 --> 01:50:22,783 that the Catholic church 4493 01:50:22,824 --> 01:50:24,868 and the Christian church... 4494 01:50:24,910 --> 01:50:26,287 we're gonna come together. 4495 01:50:26,328 --> 01:50:27,871 [audience cheering] 4496 01:50:27,913 --> 01:50:29,248 [Mike] And so, what 4497 01:50:27,913 --> 01:50:29,248 the Catholic Church has done 4498 01:50:29,290 --> 01:50:31,125 is they've gone after 4499 01:50:29,290 --> 01:50:31,125 soft targets 4500 01:50:31,166 --> 01:50:33,502 in the Protestant 4501 01:50:31,166 --> 01:50:33,502 evangelical world. 4502 01:50:33,544 --> 01:50:35,003 [Rick Warren] We have far more 4503 01:50:33,544 --> 01:50:35,003 in common 4504 01:50:35,045 --> 01:50:36,422 than what divides us. 4505 01:50:36,464 --> 01:50:38,757 If you love Jesus, 4506 01:50:36,464 --> 01:50:38,757 we're on the same team. 4507 01:50:38,799 --> 01:50:40,968 [Mike] And so, 4508 01:50:38,799 --> 01:50:40,968 we have people suppressing 4509 01:50:41,009 --> 01:50:43,636 doctrinal truth 4510 01:50:41,009 --> 01:50:43,636 for the sake of unity. 4511 01:50:43,678 --> 01:50:45,806 We may not agree, you know, 4512 01:50:45,847 --> 01:50:47,433 100% on doctrine and theology, 4513 01:50:47,475 --> 01:50:49,518 but you know what, the church, 4514 01:50:49,560 --> 01:50:51,270 the Catholic church, our church, 4515 01:50:49,560 --> 01:50:51,270 it's open for everybody, 4516 01:50:51,312 --> 01:50:52,480 so I like his tone. 4517 01:50:52,521 --> 01:50:54,647 [speaking Spanish] 4518 01:50:54,689 --> 01:50:57,943 [Osteen] 4519 01:50:54,689 --> 01:50:57,943 Not pushing people away, 4520 01:50:54,689 --> 01:50:57,943 but I believe God's big. 4521 01:50:57,985 --> 01:50:59,694 And His mercy is very wide. 4522 01:50:59,736 --> 01:51:01,654 The gospel is the only thing 4523 01:51:01,696 --> 01:51:03,324 that has the power to save. 4524 01:51:03,365 --> 01:51:05,658 If we get the gospel wrong, 4525 01:51:05,700 --> 01:51:07,411 we get Christianity wrong. 4526 01:51:07,453 --> 01:51:08,912 Catholics, Evangelicals, 4527 01:51:08,954 --> 01:51:11,290 we are all brothers and sisters 4528 01:51:08,954 --> 01:51:11,290 in Christ. 4529 01:51:11,332 --> 01:51:14,126 [man speaking Italian] 4530 01:51:14,168 --> 01:51:17,505 [man interpreting] 4531 01:51:14,168 --> 01:51:17,505 Because you're breaking 4532 01:51:14,168 --> 01:51:17,505 the spirit of division! 4533 01:51:17,546 --> 01:51:19,214 [Nate] And so, as soon 4534 01:51:17,546 --> 01:51:19,214 as you say 4535 01:51:19,256 --> 01:51:21,133 that a person can be saved 4536 01:51:21,175 --> 01:51:23,718 by their works or by adding 4537 01:51:21,175 --> 01:51:23,718 anything else to it, 4538 01:51:23,760 --> 01:51:26,305 you've now diminished 4539 01:51:23,760 --> 01:51:26,305 the biblical gospel. 4540 01:51:26,347 --> 01:51:29,266 And so, by diminishing it, 4541 01:51:26,347 --> 01:51:29,266 you have now nullified it. 4542 01:51:29,308 --> 01:51:30,351 There is no gospel. 4543 01:51:30,392 --> 01:51:31,935 There's no good news... 4544 01:51:31,977 --> 01:51:34,480 if you have to go 4545 01:51:31,977 --> 01:51:34,480 and earn your way to heaven. 4546 01:51:34,522 --> 01:51:36,982 Somebody get me 4547 01:51:34,522 --> 01:51:36,982 that Catholic priest over here. 4548 01:51:37,024 --> 01:51:42,029 And so, without having a core 4549 01:51:37,024 --> 01:51:42,029 agreement of what the gospel is, 4550 01:51:42,070 --> 01:51:44,156 we can't unify around that. 4551 01:51:44,198 --> 01:51:45,533 We can't do ministry 4552 01:51:45,574 --> 01:51:47,242 if there's a different 4553 01:51:45,574 --> 01:51:47,242 understanding 4554 01:51:47,284 --> 01:51:48,661 of the most core tenet 4555 01:51:47,284 --> 01:51:48,661 of our faith. 4556 01:51:48,701 --> 01:51:51,163 To just bring the unity 4557 01:51:48,701 --> 01:51:51,163 of the Catholic 4558 01:51:51,205 --> 01:51:52,498 and the Christian together. 4559 01:51:52,540 --> 01:51:54,166 There is no unity 4560 01:51:54,208 --> 01:51:55,750 if there's no gospel. 4561 01:51:55,792 --> 01:51:58,212 [Costi] And so, standing 4562 01:51:55,792 --> 01:51:58,212 for truth comes at a cost. 4563 01:51:58,253 --> 01:52:00,839 And sometimes, that's gonna mean 4564 01:52:00,881 --> 01:52:02,299 broken relationships. 4565 01:52:02,341 --> 01:52:06,220 Because I can't stand 4566 01:52:02,341 --> 01:52:06,220 for deceit, 4567 01:52:06,261 --> 01:52:08,972 and I can't just turn 4568 01:52:06,261 --> 01:52:08,972 a blind eye 4569 01:52:09,014 --> 01:52:11,099 to what is hurting many people. 4570 01:52:11,141 --> 01:52:13,561 Bad theology hurts people. 4571 01:52:13,602 --> 01:52:16,689 If you're sick, tell someone, 4572 01:52:13,602 --> 01:52:16,689 "I'm healthy..." 4573 01:52:16,729 --> 01:52:19,358 [Justin] If you know someone 4574 01:52:16,729 --> 01:52:19,358 in the Word of Faith movement, 4575 01:52:19,400 --> 01:52:22,444 you might notice, 4576 01:52:19,400 --> 01:52:22,444 that if they get sick 4577 01:52:22,486 --> 01:52:24,530 they deny that they're sick. 4578 01:52:24,572 --> 01:52:27,449 Just keep saying that: 4579 01:52:24,572 --> 01:52:27,449 "I'll never have the flu. 4580 01:52:27,491 --> 01:52:29,702 I'll never have the flu." 4581 01:52:29,742 --> 01:52:33,080 [Robert] I had a relative 4582 01:52:29,742 --> 01:52:33,080 who many years ago 4583 01:52:33,121 --> 01:52:34,998 delayed going to the doctor 4584 01:52:35,040 --> 01:52:38,252 for a condition that he had 4585 01:52:35,040 --> 01:52:38,252 that was quite obvious 4586 01:52:38,293 --> 01:52:40,087 because it was 4587 01:52:38,293 --> 01:52:40,087 right on his head 4588 01:52:40,128 --> 01:52:41,796 and everybody could see it. 4589 01:52:41,838 --> 01:52:44,799 And he was hoping 4590 01:52:41,838 --> 01:52:44,799 that he would be healed 4591 01:52:44,841 --> 01:52:46,594 and wouldn't need 4592 01:52:44,841 --> 01:52:46,594 to go to the doctor. 4593 01:52:46,635 --> 01:52:50,264 Jesus Himself 4594 01:52:46,635 --> 01:52:50,264 gave us the flu shot. 4595 01:52:50,305 --> 01:52:52,765 [Robert]Eventually, he gave in 4596 01:52:50,305 --> 01:52:52,765 and went to the doctor 4597 01:52:52,807 --> 01:52:55,686 but it was too late, 4598 01:52:52,807 --> 01:52:55,686 and he died as a result. 4599 01:52:55,728 --> 01:52:57,438 [Gloria Copeland] We've already 4600 01:52:55,728 --> 01:52:57,438 had our shot. 4601 01:52:57,479 --> 01:53:00,691 He bore our sicknesses 4602 01:52:57,479 --> 01:53:00,691 and carried our diseases. 4603 01:53:00,733 --> 01:53:02,943 [Sean] There's one time, 4604 01:53:00,733 --> 01:53:02,943 I had mercury poisoning. 4605 01:53:02,984 --> 01:53:05,487 And I thought, "Listen, 4606 01:53:02,984 --> 01:53:05,487 if you have faith in Jesus, 4607 01:53:05,529 --> 01:53:07,406 you can't go to the doctor. 4608 01:53:07,448 --> 01:53:08,823 If you go to the doctor, 4609 01:53:08,865 --> 01:53:09,950 you're putting your faith 4610 01:53:08,865 --> 01:53:09,950 in the doctor, 4611 01:53:09,991 --> 01:53:11,076 not in Jesus. 4612 01:53:11,118 --> 01:53:12,369 And so, I had mercury poisoning, 4613 01:53:12,411 --> 01:53:13,954 and I refused 4614 01:53:12,411 --> 01:53:13,954 to go to the doctor. 4615 01:53:13,995 --> 01:53:16,665 And I was laying on the bathtub 4616 01:53:13,995 --> 01:53:16,665 in my own soup, 4617 01:53:16,707 --> 01:53:18,083 on the verge of dying, 4618 01:53:18,125 --> 01:53:19,418 when my mom came 4619 01:53:18,125 --> 01:53:19,418 and pulled me out 4620 01:53:19,460 --> 01:53:22,337 and made me go 4621 01:53:19,460 --> 01:53:22,337 to the emergency room. 4622 01:53:22,379 --> 01:53:23,880 [Constance] 4623 01:53:22,379 --> 01:53:23,880 So I was disillusioned 4624 01:53:23,922 --> 01:53:25,966 by the Word of Faith doctrine 4625 01:53:26,007 --> 01:53:29,303 when I fell into financial ruin 4626 01:53:26,007 --> 01:53:29,303 after quitting my job 4627 01:53:29,344 --> 01:53:31,305 because my pastor prophesied 4628 01:53:31,346 --> 01:53:33,848 that someone 4629 01:53:31,346 --> 01:53:33,848 in the church that day 4630 01:53:33,890 --> 01:53:36,101 needed to quit their job, 4631 01:53:33,890 --> 01:53:36,101 and he was there to tell us 4632 01:53:36,143 --> 01:53:37,478 that God told him to tell us 4633 01:53:37,519 --> 01:53:39,730 that it was time for us to quit. 4634 01:53:39,772 --> 01:53:42,733 And so I took that 4635 01:53:39,772 --> 01:53:42,733 to be confirmation for me, 4636 01:53:42,775 --> 01:53:45,152 and I quit my job the next day. 4637 01:53:42,775 --> 01:53:45,152 [laughing] 4638 01:53:45,193 --> 01:53:49,156 [Sean] I remember 4639 01:53:45,193 --> 01:53:49,156 talking with my wife in tears, 4640 01:53:49,197 --> 01:53:52,159 asking her, 4641 01:53:49,197 --> 01:53:52,159 "What am I doing wrong? 4642 01:53:52,200 --> 01:53:54,453 Why can't I seem to get 4643 01:53:52,200 --> 01:53:54,453 this doubt out of my heart? 4644 01:53:54,495 --> 01:53:57,998 Why can't I conjure up 4645 01:53:54,495 --> 01:53:57,998 this faith within myself 4646 01:53:58,039 --> 01:53:59,500 to be able to rebuke Satan, 4647 01:53:59,541 --> 01:54:02,336 and rebuke the sickness, 4648 01:53:59,541 --> 01:54:02,336 and rebuke the poverty?" 4649 01:54:02,377 --> 01:54:05,005 [Constance] And I fell 4650 01:54:02,377 --> 01:54:05,005 into financial ruin 4651 01:54:05,046 --> 01:54:08,049 shortly thereafter, 4652 01:54:05,046 --> 01:54:08,049 probably within two months, 4653 01:54:08,091 --> 01:54:11,470 and was highly upset with God. 4654 01:54:11,512 --> 01:54:13,013 [Sean] When you name it 4655 01:54:11,512 --> 01:54:13,013 and you claim it 4656 01:54:13,054 --> 01:54:15,056 and it still doesn't happen... 4657 01:54:15,098 --> 01:54:17,017 what am I doing wrong, God? 4658 01:54:17,058 --> 01:54:19,520 Speaking things into existence 4659 01:54:17,058 --> 01:54:19,520 wasn't working. 4660 01:54:19,561 --> 01:54:21,938 The "favor" 4661 01:54:19,561 --> 01:54:21,938 I was supposed to have 4662 01:54:21,980 --> 01:54:23,440 under that doctrine. 4663 01:54:23,482 --> 01:54:26,067 -[crowd clapping] 4664 01:54:23,482 --> 01:54:26,067 -If I follow Jesus, 4665 01:54:26,109 --> 01:54:28,696 favor follows me! 4666 01:54:28,737 --> 01:54:30,280 This wasn't working. 4667 01:54:30,322 --> 01:54:32,741 I was losing everything, 4668 01:54:30,322 --> 01:54:32,741 like, by the day. 4669 01:54:32,783 --> 01:54:34,535 The preacher's not to be blamed. 4670 01:54:34,576 --> 01:54:36,537 And obviously, God and the Bible 4671 01:54:34,576 --> 01:54:36,537 aren't to be blamed, 4672 01:54:36,578 --> 01:54:38,831 so who's left to be blamed? 4673 01:54:38,872 --> 01:54:41,333 You are. You're the one. 4674 01:54:38,872 --> 01:54:41,333 You don't have enough faith. 4675 01:54:41,375 --> 01:54:42,917 You got too much sin. 4676 01:54:42,959 --> 01:54:44,461 You're a failure. 4677 01:54:44,503 --> 01:54:45,754 That hurts people. 4678 01:54:45,796 --> 01:54:48,298 [Constance] I'm super grateful 4679 01:54:48,340 --> 01:54:50,801 that by the grace of God, 4680 01:54:48,340 --> 01:54:50,801 I came out of that. 4681 01:54:50,843 --> 01:54:55,222 Because I can see how 4682 01:54:50,843 --> 01:54:55,222 blind I was, 4683 01:54:55,263 --> 01:54:58,350 and how I was going down 4684 01:54:55,263 --> 01:54:58,350 the wrong path. 4685 01:54:58,392 --> 01:54:59,976 And so I feel compelled 4686 01:55:00,018 --> 01:55:03,313 to warn 4687 01:55:00,018 --> 01:55:03,313 as many people as possible. 4688 01:55:03,355 --> 01:55:06,608 Thank you so much 4689 01:55:03,355 --> 01:55:06,608 for your love and your support 4690 01:55:06,650 --> 01:55:07,901 over the past week. 4691 01:55:07,942 --> 01:55:09,152 I announced eight days ago 4692 01:55:09,194 --> 01:55:12,656 that I have received 4693 01:55:09,194 --> 01:55:12,656 this diagnosis. 4694 01:55:12,698 --> 01:55:15,325 Nabeel Qureshi and I 4695 01:55:12,698 --> 01:55:15,325 were very close friends. 4696 01:55:15,367 --> 01:55:17,703 We knew each other 4697 01:55:15,367 --> 01:55:17,703 for several years. 4698 01:55:17,745 --> 01:55:20,205 We'd see each other 4699 01:55:17,745 --> 01:55:20,205 at conferences, 4700 01:55:20,247 --> 01:55:24,125 and we were part of a larger 4701 01:55:20,247 --> 01:55:24,125 group of Christian apologists 4702 01:55:24,167 --> 01:55:25,586 that would get together 4703 01:55:25,627 --> 01:55:27,504 and talk about 4704 01:55:25,627 --> 01:55:27,504 the defense of the faith, 4705 01:55:27,546 --> 01:55:29,089 and talk about theology, 4706 01:55:29,130 --> 01:55:31,383 and we developed 4707 01:55:29,130 --> 01:55:31,383 a very good friendship. 4708 01:55:31,425 --> 01:55:33,093 Just a few weeks or so 4709 01:55:33,134 --> 01:55:36,638 after the last time that I was 4710 01:55:33,134 --> 01:55:36,638 with Nabeel personally, 4711 01:55:36,680 --> 01:55:38,181 we found out 4712 01:55:38,223 --> 01:55:40,559 that he had been diagnosed 4713 01:55:38,223 --> 01:55:40,559 with stage four cancer. 4714 01:55:40,601 --> 01:55:45,063 The diagnosis was stage four 4715 01:55:40,601 --> 01:55:45,063 stomach cancer. 4716 01:55:45,105 --> 01:55:47,399 [Robert] 4717 01:55:45,105 --> 01:55:47,399 It was considered inoperable. 4718 01:55:47,441 --> 01:55:49,818 It was also considered 4719 01:55:47,441 --> 01:55:49,818 certainly fatal. 4720 01:55:49,860 --> 01:55:51,570 The statistics say that 4721 01:55:51,612 --> 01:55:53,530 four percent of people 4722 01:55:51,612 --> 01:55:53,530 with this diagnosis survive. 4723 01:55:53,572 --> 01:55:55,574 I realized very quickly that 4724 01:55:55,616 --> 01:55:57,325 if I were going to live, 4725 01:55:57,367 --> 01:56:00,161 I would need, 4726 01:55:57,367 --> 01:56:00,161 more or less, a miracle. 4727 01:56:00,203 --> 01:56:02,205 [Costi] One of the things 4728 01:56:00,203 --> 01:56:02,205 that the Word of Faith movement 4729 01:56:02,247 --> 01:56:04,458 is against is suffering. 4730 01:56:04,499 --> 01:56:06,042 And God's will 4731 01:56:06,084 --> 01:56:07,711 is anything but suffering. 4732 01:56:07,753 --> 01:56:09,630 [Bill Johnson ] I refuse 4733 01:56:07,753 --> 01:56:09,630 to create a theology 4734 01:56:09,671 --> 01:56:11,632 that allows for sickness. 4735 01:56:11,673 --> 01:56:13,759 [Costi] It's always God's will 4736 01:56:11,673 --> 01:56:13,759 to heal everybody. 4737 01:56:13,801 --> 01:56:16,428 So the question I want to answer 4738 01:56:13,801 --> 01:56:16,428 right now then is, 4739 01:56:16,470 --> 01:56:19,640 "Is it God's will 4740 01:56:16,470 --> 01:56:19,640 for everyone to be healed?" 4741 01:56:19,681 --> 01:56:22,976 [Robert] This provides, beyond 4742 01:56:19,681 --> 01:56:22,976 my dear love for Nabeel 4743 01:56:23,017 --> 01:56:25,479 and hope for him personally, 4744 01:56:25,520 --> 01:56:28,022 an interesting case study in: 4745 01:56:28,064 --> 01:56:29,483 does this actually work? 4746 01:56:29,524 --> 01:56:33,069 And if it doesn't, 4747 01:56:29,524 --> 01:56:33,069 why doesn't it work? 4748 01:56:33,111 --> 01:56:36,197 [Trevin] First of all, 4749 01:56:33,111 --> 01:56:36,197 we have to affirm 4750 01:56:36,239 --> 01:56:38,325 the truth that God can 4751 01:56:38,366 --> 01:56:41,453 and does heal people 4752 01:56:38,366 --> 01:56:41,453 in response to prayers. 4753 01:56:41,495 --> 01:56:43,747 At the same time, 4754 01:56:43,789 --> 01:56:47,083 it is impossible for Christians 4755 01:56:47,125 --> 01:56:49,377 to be formed 4756 01:56:47,125 --> 01:56:49,377 into the image of Christ 4757 01:56:49,419 --> 01:56:51,922 without undergoing 4758 01:56:49,419 --> 01:56:51,922 some kind of suffering. 4759 01:56:51,964 --> 01:56:53,966 [Katherine] 4760 01:56:51,964 --> 01:56:53,966 I began to get sicker. 4761 01:56:54,007 --> 01:56:55,592 So I went in for some bloodwork, 4762 01:56:55,634 --> 01:56:57,010 and my doctor called 4763 01:56:57,051 --> 01:56:59,346 and said he thought 4764 01:56:57,051 --> 01:56:59,346 it might be cancer. 4765 01:56:59,387 --> 01:57:00,973 But they suggested that 4766 01:57:01,014 --> 01:57:05,018 it could be a form of T-cell 4767 01:57:01,014 --> 01:57:05,018 lymphoma or leukemia. 4768 01:57:05,059 --> 01:57:07,729 I know when I was diagnosed 4769 01:57:05,059 --> 01:57:07,729 with terminal brain cancer 4770 01:57:07,771 --> 01:57:09,606 in 2009, 4771 01:57:09,648 --> 01:57:11,483 there were these two camps 4772 01:57:09,648 --> 01:57:11,483 that were the loudest. 4773 01:57:11,525 --> 01:57:13,735 And to be honest with you, 4774 01:57:11,525 --> 01:57:13,735 neither was really comforting. 4775 01:57:13,777 --> 01:57:15,487 The first camp was kind of that, 4776 01:57:15,529 --> 01:57:17,656 if you just have faith 4777 01:57:15,529 --> 01:57:17,656 and believe 4778 01:57:17,698 --> 01:57:20,116 that God will heal you, 4779 01:57:17,698 --> 01:57:20,116 He will heal you. 4780 01:57:20,158 --> 01:57:22,285 And, man, if you-- 4781 01:57:20,158 --> 01:57:22,285 if you don't, 4782 01:57:22,327 --> 01:57:24,329 you know, you need to put people 4783 01:57:22,327 --> 01:57:24,329 around you that have faith 4784 01:57:24,371 --> 01:57:26,247 and can encourage 4785 01:57:24,371 --> 01:57:26,247 that faith in you. And then... 4786 01:57:26,289 --> 01:57:27,624 And I just thought, 4787 01:57:26,289 --> 01:57:27,624 "Man, how exhausting 4788 01:57:27,666 --> 01:57:29,292 to put all of that on me." 4789 01:57:29,334 --> 01:57:31,003 And then, there was this other 4790 01:57:29,334 --> 01:57:31,003 kind of nonchalant, 4791 01:57:31,044 --> 01:57:33,505 "Well, just pray 4792 01:57:31,044 --> 01:57:33,505 in God's will for your life." 4793 01:57:33,547 --> 01:57:35,382 And--and then I'm going, "Whoa. 4794 01:57:35,423 --> 01:57:38,552 But doesn't the word of God 4795 01:57:35,423 --> 01:57:38,552 tell you in James 4796 01:57:38,593 --> 01:57:40,303 to pray that I might be healed, 4797 01:57:40,345 --> 01:57:42,848 as I pray 4798 01:57:40,345 --> 01:57:42,848 that I might be healed?" 4799 01:57:42,890 --> 01:57:44,391 I had a brain tumor. 4800 01:57:44,432 --> 01:57:46,018 It was in my frontal sinus. 4801 01:57:46,059 --> 01:57:48,395 And it was pushing in 4802 01:57:46,059 --> 01:57:48,395 to my frontal lobe. 4803 01:57:48,436 --> 01:57:51,356 I was having vision problems 4804 01:57:48,436 --> 01:57:51,356 and things like that. 4805 01:57:51,398 --> 01:57:53,692 And so, we moved quickly 4806 01:57:51,398 --> 01:57:53,692 to a specialist 4807 01:57:53,734 --> 01:57:55,276 to have that taken out. 4808 01:57:55,318 --> 01:57:58,572 And they ended up having to use 4809 01:57:55,318 --> 01:57:58,572 both of my nostrils 4810 01:57:58,613 --> 01:58:00,323 and resection part of my skull. 4811 01:58:00,365 --> 01:58:03,076 But they were able 4812 01:58:00,365 --> 01:58:03,076 to get it out that way. 4813 01:58:03,117 --> 01:58:05,620 It's not wrong 4814 01:58:03,117 --> 01:58:05,620 to desire miracles. 4815 01:58:05,662 --> 01:58:06,914 It's not wrong to desire 4816 01:58:06,955 --> 01:58:09,041 miraculous deliverance 4817 01:58:06,955 --> 01:58:09,041 from sickness. 4818 01:58:09,082 --> 01:58:12,419 And I believe 4819 01:58:09,082 --> 01:58:12,419 those things still happen today. 4820 01:58:12,460 --> 01:58:13,795 The problem comes 4821 01:58:12,460 --> 01:58:13,795 when you believe 4822 01:58:13,837 --> 01:58:15,505 that those things are normative 4823 01:58:15,547 --> 01:58:18,258 and that every Christian 4824 01:58:15,547 --> 01:58:18,258 should expect that to happen. 4825 01:58:18,299 --> 01:58:20,552 And if it doesn't happen, 4826 01:58:18,299 --> 01:58:20,552 it's a lack of faith 4827 01:58:20,594 --> 01:58:23,346 on the part of the believer. 4828 01:58:20,594 --> 01:58:23,346 That's unbiblical. 4829 01:58:23,388 --> 01:58:25,432 Jesus did have compassion 4830 01:58:23,388 --> 01:58:25,432 for people. 4831 01:58:25,473 --> 01:58:27,559 He was moved with love 4832 01:58:27,601 --> 01:58:29,728 and empathy to heal people. 4833 01:58:29,770 --> 01:58:32,564 But that healing, 4834 01:58:29,770 --> 01:58:32,564 in Jesus's own words, 4835 01:58:32,606 --> 01:58:35,191 was intended to glorify God. 4836 01:58:35,233 --> 01:58:38,319 And when you get to the end 4837 01:58:35,233 --> 01:58:38,319 of John in chapter 20, 4838 01:58:38,361 --> 01:58:40,113 He very explicitly states 4839 01:58:40,154 --> 01:58:41,782 the purpose of His gospel. 4840 01:58:41,823 --> 01:58:45,619 Which is that, 4841 01:58:41,823 --> 01:58:45,619 "So you may believe." 4842 01:58:45,660 --> 01:58:47,203 In the book of Mark, 4843 01:58:47,245 --> 01:58:49,623 it's, uh, a good place to start. 4844 01:58:49,664 --> 01:58:52,250 In Mark 1, He's at the home 4845 01:58:52,292 --> 01:58:53,794 of Simon and Andrew, 4846 01:58:53,835 --> 01:58:56,797 and Simon's mother-in-law 4847 01:58:53,835 --> 01:58:56,797 has a fever. 4848 01:58:56,838 --> 01:58:59,382 And so, He, of course, 4849 01:58:56,838 --> 01:58:59,382 heals her. 4850 01:58:59,424 --> 01:59:00,801 And that evening, 4851 01:59:00,842 --> 01:59:03,219 the whole city 4852 01:59:00,842 --> 01:59:03,219 was gathered at the door. 4853 01:59:03,261 --> 01:59:06,640 And you know what, 4854 01:59:03,261 --> 01:59:06,640 He healed a lot of people. 4855 01:59:06,681 --> 01:59:09,225 And then He got up early 4856 01:59:06,681 --> 01:59:09,225 the next morning 4857 01:59:09,267 --> 01:59:10,811 and went to a desolate place 4858 01:59:10,852 --> 01:59:13,897 to just, like, have a quiet time 4859 01:59:10,852 --> 01:59:13,897 with the Father 4860 01:59:13,939 --> 01:59:15,398 after all of that. 4861 01:59:15,440 --> 01:59:17,109 And then He comes back, 4862 01:59:15,440 --> 01:59:17,109 and it's like, 4863 01:59:17,150 --> 01:59:19,402 everyone's gearing up again 4864 01:59:17,150 --> 01:59:19,402 and lining up again. 4865 01:59:19,444 --> 01:59:21,696 "Hey, where's that guy 4866 01:59:19,444 --> 01:59:21,696 who healed everybody?" 4867 01:59:21,738 --> 01:59:23,156 "Everyone is looking for You." 4868 01:59:23,197 --> 01:59:25,826 He said to them, 4869 01:59:23,197 --> 01:59:25,826 "Let us go somewhere else 4870 01:59:25,867 --> 01:59:30,413 in the towns nearby, 4871 01:59:25,867 --> 01:59:30,413 so that I may preach there also, 4872 01:59:30,455 --> 01:59:34,501 for that is what I came for." 4873 01:59:34,542 --> 01:59:35,961 And so He leaves, 4874 01:59:36,003 --> 01:59:38,379 and He doesn't heal 4875 01:59:36,003 --> 01:59:38,379 all of those people. 4876 01:59:38,421 --> 01:59:39,965 And that doesn't mean that 4877 01:59:40,007 --> 01:59:42,550 He's evil, or wrong, 4878 01:59:40,007 --> 01:59:42,550 or mean, or terrible. 4879 01:59:42,592 --> 01:59:45,261 It's... it's that He came 4880 01:59:45,303 --> 01:59:48,765 to bring the word and to help 4881 01:59:45,303 --> 01:59:48,765 people know to repent 4882 01:59:48,807 --> 01:59:52,686 and believe, because that 4883 01:59:48,807 --> 01:59:52,686 is the most important thing. 4884 01:59:52,727 --> 01:59:54,562 [Costi] It wasn't long before 4885 01:59:54,604 --> 01:59:56,940 I was pastoring 4886 01:59:54,604 --> 01:59:56,940 in a church in California, 4887 01:59:56,982 --> 01:59:58,900 and the pastor had me preach. 4888 01:59:58,942 --> 02:00:00,443 It was my first time preaching. 4889 02:00:00,485 --> 02:00:03,446 And he tells me 4890 02:00:00,485 --> 02:00:03,446 I'm preaching out of John 5. 4891 02:00:03,488 --> 02:00:06,240 It's my turn, that's the way 4892 02:00:03,488 --> 02:00:06,240 the rotation worked. 4893 02:00:06,282 --> 02:00:10,328 John chapter 5, the healing 4894 02:00:06,282 --> 02:00:10,328 at the pool of Bethesda. 4895 02:00:10,370 --> 02:00:12,288 And there was something 4896 02:00:10,370 --> 02:00:12,288 that stuck out in that passage 4897 02:00:12,330 --> 02:00:13,999 that I read in a commentary. 4898 02:00:14,041 --> 02:00:17,169 And it said, "The cruelest lie 4899 02:00:14,041 --> 02:00:17,169 of faith healers today, 4900 02:00:17,210 --> 02:00:20,421 that if you 4901 02:00:17,210 --> 02:00:20,421 just have enough faith, 4902 02:00:17,210 --> 02:00:20,421 Jesus will heal you." 4903 02:00:20,463 --> 02:00:23,717 And I thought, 4904 02:00:20,463 --> 02:00:23,717 "What just happened?" 4905 02:00:23,758 --> 02:00:25,677 In that passage, in John 5, 4906 02:00:25,719 --> 02:00:28,555 Jesus healed a man 4907 02:00:25,719 --> 02:00:28,555 who didn't even know who He was, 4908 02:00:28,596 --> 02:00:30,557 let alone have enough faith. 4909 02:00:30,598 --> 02:00:31,892 Jesus healed him instantly, 4910 02:00:31,933 --> 02:00:33,852 which I never saw growing up. 4911 02:00:33,894 --> 02:00:35,520 And He healed the man 4912 02:00:35,562 --> 02:00:37,313 out of a crowd of sick people. 4913 02:00:37,355 --> 02:00:40,274 And so, 4914 02:00:37,355 --> 02:00:40,274 that was the exact opposite 4915 02:00:37,355 --> 02:00:40,274 of what I grew up with. 4916 02:00:40,316 --> 02:00:43,319 [Costi] The faith-healing 4917 02:00:40,316 --> 02:00:43,319 circles, first of all, 4918 02:00:43,361 --> 02:00:44,779 faith is everything. 4919 02:00:44,821 --> 02:00:48,241 Faith is so important 4920 02:00:44,821 --> 02:00:48,241 to miracles. 4921 02:00:48,282 --> 02:00:49,868 [Costi] And now, 4922 02:00:48,282 --> 02:00:49,868 this Bible passage 4923 02:00:49,910 --> 02:00:51,953 is showing that Jesus 4924 02:00:49,910 --> 02:00:51,953 healed the guy 4925 02:00:51,995 --> 02:00:53,413 who didn't even know who He was. 4926 02:00:53,454 --> 02:00:55,331 You don't need 4927 02:00:53,454 --> 02:00:55,331 to have enough faith. 4928 02:00:55,373 --> 02:00:57,584 God is sovereign in healing. 4929 02:00:57,625 --> 02:00:58,960 And there was that word again 4930 02:00:59,002 --> 02:01:01,171 that I remembered 4931 02:00:59,002 --> 02:01:01,171 back from college. 4932 02:01:01,213 --> 02:01:05,383 [Trevin] It is not 4933 02:01:01,213 --> 02:01:05,383 great faith that we need, 4934 02:01:05,425 --> 02:01:07,844 but small faith and a great God. 4935 02:01:07,886 --> 02:01:10,222 [Costi] This was 4936 02:01:07,886 --> 02:01:10,222 my conversion experience. 4937 02:01:10,263 --> 02:01:13,558 I wanted nothing to do 4938 02:01:10,263 --> 02:01:13,558 with what I used to teach, 4939 02:01:13,600 --> 02:01:15,435 used to believe, 4940 02:01:13,600 --> 02:01:15,435 used to even think. 4941 02:01:15,476 --> 02:01:18,688 I only wanted to know 4942 02:01:15,476 --> 02:01:18,688 what the Bible says. 4943 02:01:18,730 --> 02:01:20,565 And so, I completely turned 4944 02:01:18,730 --> 02:01:20,565 from my sin. 4945 02:01:20,607 --> 02:01:23,735 I repented for all 4946 02:01:20,607 --> 02:01:23,735 of my false Christianity, 4947 02:01:23,777 --> 02:01:25,737 for all the things 4948 02:01:23,777 --> 02:01:25,737 I'd ever done wrong 4949 02:01:25,779 --> 02:01:27,239 to other people, 4950 02:01:27,280 --> 02:01:29,824 for the way that I had abused 4951 02:01:27,280 --> 02:01:29,824 my Christianity, 4952 02:01:29,866 --> 02:01:32,493 and, to be honest, 4953 02:01:32,535 --> 02:01:34,495 brought reproach 4954 02:01:32,535 --> 02:01:34,495 on the name of Christ. 4955 02:01:34,537 --> 02:01:37,373 You can't turn Jesus 4956 02:01:34,537 --> 02:01:37,373 or His healing ministry 4957 02:01:37,415 --> 02:01:38,875 into a formula, 4958 02:01:38,917 --> 02:01:41,086 but that's exactly 4959 02:01:38,917 --> 02:01:41,086 what false faith healers 4960 02:01:41,128 --> 02:01:42,545 are doing today. 4961 02:01:42,587 --> 02:01:45,715 Not everything that comes at us 4962 02:01:42,587 --> 02:01:45,715 is God's will. 4963 02:01:45,757 --> 02:01:47,467 [Paul Johnson] 4964 02:01:45,757 --> 02:01:47,467 The sovereignty of God 4965 02:01:47,508 --> 02:01:50,178 is one of the bedrock teachings 4966 02:01:47,508 --> 02:01:50,178 of Protestant theology. 4967 02:01:50,220 --> 02:01:52,222 There are those who have 4968 02:01:50,220 --> 02:01:52,222 wavered from the position. 4969 02:01:52,264 --> 02:01:54,641 There's a difference 4970 02:01:52,264 --> 02:01:54,641 from being in charge 4971 02:01:54,682 --> 02:01:56,143 and being in control. 4972 02:01:56,184 --> 02:01:59,062 When people say 4973 02:01:56,184 --> 02:01:59,062 that God's not in control, 4974 02:01:59,104 --> 02:02:01,022 what they always appeal to 4975 02:02:01,064 --> 02:02:03,733 is their own experience 4976 02:02:03,775 --> 02:02:05,944 and their own feelings 4977 02:02:05,986 --> 02:02:08,071 about what they would do 4978 02:02:05,986 --> 02:02:08,071 if they were God. 4979 02:02:08,113 --> 02:02:09,656 Would you do this 4980 02:02:08,113 --> 02:02:09,656 to your own kids? 4981 02:02:09,697 --> 02:02:11,574 [Russell] I wouldn't let 4982 02:02:09,697 --> 02:02:11,574 my kids be sick. 4983 02:02:11,616 --> 02:02:13,243 I wouldn't let my kids suffer. 4984 02:02:13,285 --> 02:02:17,038 Trust me, I would not strike 4985 02:02:13,285 --> 02:02:17,038 any one of them with pain 4986 02:02:17,080 --> 02:02:18,706 to teach them some lesson. 4987 02:02:18,748 --> 02:02:21,876 [Russell] Scripture says 4988 02:02:18,748 --> 02:02:21,876 that we make the mistake 4989 02:02:21,918 --> 02:02:24,671 of thinking God was like us. 4990 02:02:24,712 --> 02:02:27,590 And the problem 4991 02:02:24,712 --> 02:02:27,590 is that scripture says 4992 02:02:24,712 --> 02:02:27,590 God is sovereign. 4993 02:02:27,632 --> 02:02:30,010 [Johnson] Perhaps the best way 4994 02:02:27,632 --> 02:02:30,010 to understand 4995 02:02:30,051 --> 02:02:33,305 God's sovereignty over evil 4996 02:02:30,051 --> 02:02:33,305 is to look at the cross. 4997 02:02:33,346 --> 02:02:35,265 In Acts 2:23, 4998 02:02:35,307 --> 02:02:37,058 we're told that 4999 02:02:35,307 --> 02:02:37,058 Christ was crucified 5000 02:02:37,100 --> 02:02:39,727 by the determinate counsel 5001 02:02:37,100 --> 02:02:39,727 and foreknowledge of God. 5002 02:02:39,769 --> 02:02:41,479 He planned it. He decreed it. 5003 02:02:41,521 --> 02:02:43,815 But that same verse 5004 02:02:41,521 --> 02:02:43,815 goes on to say 5005 02:02:43,857 --> 02:02:46,943 that Christ was crucified 5006 02:02:43,857 --> 02:02:46,943 by the hands of wicked men. 5007 02:02:46,985 --> 02:02:49,112 Were they responsible? 5008 02:02:46,985 --> 02:02:49,112 Were they guilty? 5009 02:02:49,154 --> 02:02:50,571 Yes, absolutely. 5010 02:02:50,613 --> 02:02:51,948 Did God decree it? 5011 02:02:51,990 --> 02:02:54,034 Was it part of His plan? Yes. 5012 02:02:54,075 --> 02:02:56,786 But He's not responsible 5013 02:02:54,075 --> 02:02:56,786 for the evil. 5014 02:02:56,828 --> 02:02:58,705 He gets the credit for 5015 02:02:58,746 --> 02:03:01,624 the goodness and glory 5016 02:02:58,746 --> 02:03:01,624 that came out of that evil act. 5017 02:03:01,666 --> 02:03:03,960 And that's how God 5018 02:03:01,666 --> 02:03:03,960 works sovereignly 5019 02:03:04,002 --> 02:03:05,628 even in the midst of evil. 5020 02:03:05,670 --> 02:03:08,089 He overrules it 5021 02:03:05,670 --> 02:03:08,089 for His own glory. 5022 02:03:08,131 --> 02:03:10,633 God ordains and wills 5023 02:03:10,675 --> 02:03:12,927 all things for our good. 5024 02:03:12,969 --> 02:03:15,013 [Johnson] In the 5025 02:03:12,969 --> 02:03:15,013 Westminster Confession of Faith, 5026 02:03:15,055 --> 02:03:17,015 for example, it affirms that God 5027 02:03:17,057 --> 02:03:20,060 has sovereignly decreed 5028 02:03:17,057 --> 02:03:20,060 whatsoever comes to pass. 5029 02:03:20,101 --> 02:03:21,477 [Russell] And that includes 5030 02:03:21,519 --> 02:03:23,813 ordaining suffering, 5031 02:03:21,519 --> 02:03:23,813 and calamity, 5032 02:03:23,855 --> 02:03:25,523 and disease, and death. 5033 02:03:25,565 --> 02:03:28,235 Any definition 5034 02:03:25,565 --> 02:03:28,235 of God's sovereignty 5035 02:03:28,276 --> 02:03:31,196 that allows for evil to exist 5036 02:03:31,238 --> 02:03:33,990 as a part 5037 02:03:31,238 --> 02:03:33,990 of His will and purpose 5038 02:03:34,032 --> 02:03:36,784 is an immoral definition 5039 02:03:34,032 --> 02:03:36,784 of sovereignty. 5040 02:03:36,826 --> 02:03:38,161 [Russell] 5041 02:03:36,826 --> 02:03:38,161 And you have to have 5042 02:03:38,203 --> 02:03:40,205 a fairly strong tolerance 5043 02:03:40,247 --> 02:03:41,956 for mystery 5044 02:03:41,998 --> 02:03:43,333 to find comfort in that. 5045 02:03:43,375 --> 02:03:45,085 [Paul Johnson] 5046 02:03:43,375 --> 02:03:45,085 In Isaiah 46 He says, 5047 02:03:45,126 --> 02:03:47,754 "I am God, 5048 02:03:45,126 --> 02:03:47,754 there is no one like Me, 5049 02:03:47,795 --> 02:03:49,881 declaring the end 5050 02:03:47,795 --> 02:03:49,881 from the beginning," 5051 02:03:49,923 --> 02:03:53,509 which means he declared what 5052 02:03:49,923 --> 02:03:53,509 the end of all things would be 5053 02:03:53,551 --> 02:03:55,387 before the beginning of time. 5054 02:03:55,428 --> 02:03:58,431 And He says, 5055 02:03:55,428 --> 02:03:58,431 "And I will do all my pleasure," 5056 02:03:58,472 --> 02:04:01,475 meaning, nothing that God 5057 02:03:58,472 --> 02:04:01,475 has ever planned or proposed 5058 02:04:01,517 --> 02:04:04,604 or willed 5059 02:04:01,517 --> 02:04:04,604 will ever be thwarted. 5060 02:04:04,645 --> 02:04:08,024 And He does not discipline us 5061 02:04:04,645 --> 02:04:08,024 as His children 5062 02:04:08,066 --> 02:04:11,236 by causing sickness to touch us; 5063 02:04:08,066 --> 02:04:11,236 that's not in the Bible. 5064 02:04:11,278 --> 02:04:14,114 [Dr. Lawson] But I think 5065 02:04:11,278 --> 02:04:14,114 of Job, for example. 5066 02:04:14,155 --> 02:04:16,616 Job was marked out to suffer 5067 02:04:16,657 --> 02:04:19,660 by the sovereign will of God. 5068 02:04:19,702 --> 02:04:22,580 Not because there was anything 5069 02:04:19,702 --> 02:04:22,580 wrong in his life, 5070 02:04:22,622 --> 02:04:25,583 but because there was everything 5071 02:04:22,622 --> 02:04:25,583 right about his life. 5072 02:04:25,625 --> 02:04:27,168 That's why he suffered. 5073 02:04:27,210 --> 02:04:29,503 [Katherine] With Ehlers-Danlos, 5074 02:04:27,210 --> 02:04:29,503 a lot of people have 5075 02:04:29,545 --> 02:04:31,965 a lot of severe, severe pain 5076 02:04:29,545 --> 02:04:31,965 and joint dislocation, 5077 02:04:32,006 --> 02:04:34,134 so I started 5078 02:04:32,006 --> 02:04:34,134 having problems there. 5079 02:04:34,175 --> 02:04:36,386 [Dr. Lawson] God was the one 5080 02:04:34,175 --> 02:04:36,386 who said to Satan, 5081 02:04:36,428 --> 02:04:38,846 "Have you considered 5082 02:04:36,428 --> 02:04:38,846 my servant Job? 5083 02:04:38,888 --> 02:04:40,681 There's none like Him." 5084 02:04:40,723 --> 02:04:43,059 [Katherine] I was withdrawing 5085 02:04:40,723 --> 02:04:43,059 from the pain medications 5086 02:04:43,101 --> 02:04:45,937 'cause I'd forget to take 'em, 5087 02:04:43,101 --> 02:04:45,937 because I was on too much. 5088 02:04:45,979 --> 02:04:48,773 Eventually ended up 5089 02:04:45,979 --> 02:04:48,773 on suicide watch. 5090 02:04:48,815 --> 02:04:52,526 And during that time 5091 02:04:48,815 --> 02:04:52,526 is when I really told God, 5092 02:04:52,568 --> 02:04:55,155 "Okay, look, I don't care 5093 02:04:52,568 --> 02:04:55,155 what You have to do, 5094 02:04:55,196 --> 02:04:58,158 You can humble me, 5095 02:04:55,196 --> 02:04:58,158 You can take my life 5096 02:04:58,199 --> 02:05:00,327 and turn it into whatever 5097 02:04:58,199 --> 02:05:00,327 You need it to be, 5098 02:05:00,368 --> 02:05:02,536 but I need You in control." 5099 02:05:02,578 --> 02:05:03,871 "God's in control." 5100 02:05:03,913 --> 02:05:05,915 The Bible doesn't teach that. 5101 02:05:05,957 --> 02:05:08,709 One of the hallmarks 5102 02:05:05,957 --> 02:05:08,709 of prosperity doctrine 5103 02:05:08,751 --> 02:05:11,712 is the notion 5104 02:05:08,751 --> 02:05:11,712 that Satan is sovereign. 5105 02:05:11,754 --> 02:05:14,132 We think that Satan needs God's 5106 02:05:11,754 --> 02:05:14,132 permission to attack us. 5107 02:05:14,174 --> 02:05:16,426 He doesn't need permission, 5108 02:05:14,174 --> 02:05:16,426 he's a jerk. 5109 02:05:16,468 --> 02:05:18,219 Did God need to give him 5110 02:05:16,468 --> 02:05:18,219 that authority, 5111 02:05:18,261 --> 02:05:20,180 or does Satan already have it? 5112 02:05:20,221 --> 02:05:23,516 It was the sovereign initiative 5113 02:05:20,221 --> 02:05:23,516 of God 5114 02:05:23,557 --> 02:05:25,977 that introduced Job 5115 02:05:26,019 --> 02:05:30,064 into this time 5116 02:05:26,019 --> 02:05:30,064 of extraordinary suffering 5117 02:05:30,106 --> 02:05:34,235 in which ten children 5118 02:05:30,106 --> 02:05:34,235 were killed in a day. 5119 02:05:34,277 --> 02:05:36,737 [Katherine] You know, 5120 02:05:34,277 --> 02:05:36,737 Job's wife says, 5121 02:05:36,779 --> 02:05:38,698 "Curse God and die." 5122 02:05:38,739 --> 02:05:43,244 But Job has an answer that 5123 02:05:38,739 --> 02:05:43,244 is very encouraging. 5124 02:05:43,286 --> 02:05:45,830 "Shall we receive good from God, 5125 02:05:45,872 --> 02:05:48,833 and shall we not accept evil?" 5126 02:05:48,875 --> 02:05:51,752 [Dr. Lawson] 5127 02:05:48,875 --> 02:05:51,752 And Job humbly responds 5128 02:05:51,794 --> 02:05:54,255 by saying, "The Lord gives, 5129 02:05:51,794 --> 02:05:54,255 the Lord takes away. 5130 02:05:54,297 --> 02:05:55,840 Blessed be the name 5131 02:05:54,297 --> 02:05:55,840 of the Lord." 5132 02:05:55,882 --> 02:05:57,258 Today, someone would say to Job, 5133 02:05:57,300 --> 02:05:59,511 "Job, you just 5134 02:05:57,300 --> 02:05:59,511 didn't have enough faith." 5135 02:05:59,552 --> 02:06:02,889 No, it was his faith that 5136 02:05:59,552 --> 02:06:02,889 put him into this suffering. 5137 02:06:02,930 --> 02:06:06,393 God's not sending the trial 5138 02:06:02,930 --> 02:06:06,393 your way to try you. 5139 02:06:06,434 --> 02:06:08,061 The Devil's a jerk. 5140 02:06:08,102 --> 02:06:09,812 [Johnson] Jesus told Peter, 5141 02:06:09,854 --> 02:06:12,524 "Satan has asked 5142 02:06:09,854 --> 02:06:12,524 to sift you like wheat." 5143 02:06:12,565 --> 02:06:14,150 But Jesus said, 5144 02:06:12,565 --> 02:06:14,150 "I prayed for you 5145 02:06:14,192 --> 02:06:15,860 that your faith will not fail." 5146 02:06:15,902 --> 02:06:17,695 You know, if you were Peter, 5147 02:06:15,902 --> 02:06:17,695 you'd be saying, 5148 02:06:17,737 --> 02:06:19,822 "Lord, you told him no, right?" 5149 02:06:19,864 --> 02:06:22,075 But that's not the case. 5150 02:06:19,864 --> 02:06:22,075 The Lord told him yes. 5151 02:06:22,116 --> 02:06:24,160 Peter was sifted like wheat, 5152 02:06:24,202 --> 02:06:25,953 Christ's prayer was answered, 5153 02:06:25,995 --> 02:06:27,705 his faith didn't fail. 5154 02:06:27,747 --> 02:06:30,958 [Katherine] I found out 5155 02:06:27,747 --> 02:06:30,958 that I also had POTS, 5156 02:06:31,000 --> 02:06:34,587 which is Postural Orthostatic 5157 02:06:31,000 --> 02:06:34,587 Tachycardia Syndrome. 5158 02:06:34,628 --> 02:06:36,923 Basically meaning, 5159 02:06:34,628 --> 02:06:36,923 every time I stood up, 5160 02:06:36,964 --> 02:06:38,216 my heart would race, 5161 02:06:38,258 --> 02:06:40,427 and I would sometimes pass out. 5162 02:06:40,468 --> 02:06:43,596 But it's what's been causing me 5163 02:06:40,468 --> 02:06:43,596 to have low oxygen, 5164 02:06:43,637 --> 02:06:45,723 I faint a lot, 5165 02:06:45,765 --> 02:06:47,892 I have low blood pressure 5166 02:06:45,765 --> 02:06:47,892 because of it, 5167 02:06:47,934 --> 02:06:49,394 I no longer sweat. 5168 02:06:49,436 --> 02:06:52,439 Philippians 1:29 5169 02:06:49,436 --> 02:06:52,439 in the New Testament says, 5170 02:06:52,480 --> 02:06:54,690 "It's been appointed unto us 5171 02:06:54,732 --> 02:06:57,651 not only to suffer 5172 02:06:54,732 --> 02:06:57,651 and to be persecuted, 5173 02:06:57,693 --> 02:06:59,529 but to believe." 5174 02:06:59,571 --> 02:07:02,656 Those are inseparably 5175 02:06:59,571 --> 02:07:02,656 bound together. 5176 02:07:02,698 --> 02:07:03,908 [Katherine] And then by August, 5177 02:07:03,950 --> 02:07:06,411 I developed 5178 02:07:03,950 --> 02:07:06,411 a really bad tremor. 5179 02:07:06,453 --> 02:07:08,704 And it turned out I had 5180 02:07:08,746 --> 02:07:11,916 severe spinal cord impingement 5181 02:07:08,746 --> 02:07:11,916 in my neck. 5182 02:07:11,958 --> 02:07:15,128 Four of my discs were pressing 5183 02:07:11,958 --> 02:07:15,128 on my spinal cord. 5184 02:07:15,169 --> 02:07:17,004 So I had to have 5185 02:07:17,046 --> 02:07:20,341 something called an 5186 02:07:17,046 --> 02:07:20,341 anterior cervical disc fusion. 5187 02:07:20,383 --> 02:07:24,387 And then, in April, I stopped 5188 02:07:20,383 --> 02:07:24,387 being able to swallow, 5189 02:07:24,429 --> 02:07:26,847 and I was given a tube 5190 02:07:26,889 --> 02:07:30,059 that went up through my nose 5191 02:07:26,889 --> 02:07:30,059 and into my stomach to feed me. 5192 02:07:30,101 --> 02:07:31,769 I had that for about a month. 5193 02:07:31,811 --> 02:07:33,771 But I wasn't able 5194 02:07:31,811 --> 02:07:33,771 to gain any weight, 5195 02:07:33,813 --> 02:07:38,067 because it turns out that not 5196 02:07:33,813 --> 02:07:38,067 only is my esophagus affected, 5197 02:07:38,109 --> 02:07:41,779 but my stomach is also 5198 02:07:38,109 --> 02:07:41,779 not working very well. 5199 02:07:41,821 --> 02:07:44,324 So we had to bypass my stomach. 5200 02:07:44,365 --> 02:07:48,077 And now, I'm fed directly 5201 02:07:44,365 --> 02:07:48,077 into my intestines, 5202 02:07:48,119 --> 02:07:51,914 so it bypasses my esophagus 5203 02:07:48,119 --> 02:07:51,914 and my stomach completely. 5204 02:07:51,956 --> 02:07:55,751 God has purposes 5205 02:07:51,956 --> 02:07:55,751 in our suffering: 5206 02:07:55,793 --> 02:07:58,045 to humble us, 5207 02:07:58,087 --> 02:08:00,673 to conform us 5208 02:07:58,087 --> 02:08:00,673 into the image of Christ, 5209 02:08:00,714 --> 02:08:02,842 to wean us off of the world, 5210 02:08:02,883 --> 02:08:05,011 to purify us, 5211 02:08:05,052 --> 02:08:07,680 to help us identify 5212 02:08:05,052 --> 02:08:07,680 with other people 5213 02:08:07,721 --> 02:08:09,307 who are suffering. 5214 02:08:09,349 --> 02:08:12,185 God does not use disease 5215 02:08:09,349 --> 02:08:12,185 to chasten us. 5216 02:08:12,226 --> 02:08:14,187 [Matt] What weak theologies 5217 02:08:12,226 --> 02:08:14,187 of suffering 5218 02:08:14,228 --> 02:08:16,022 and not talking about suffering 5219 02:08:14,228 --> 02:08:16,022 has done, 5220 02:08:16,063 --> 02:08:18,650 is it's really exposed 5221 02:08:16,063 --> 02:08:18,650 that most times 5222 02:08:18,691 --> 02:08:20,568 we're not really after 5223 02:08:18,691 --> 02:08:20,568 intimacy with God 5224 02:08:20,610 --> 02:08:22,028 but something else. 5225 02:08:22,069 --> 02:08:25,198 Send prosperity now, 5226 02:08:22,069 --> 02:08:25,198 in Jesus' name... 5227 02:08:25,239 --> 02:08:27,283 And we're hoping God will 5228 02:08:25,239 --> 02:08:27,283 give us that something else. 5229 02:08:27,325 --> 02:08:28,493 [Katherine] 5230 02:08:27,325 --> 02:08:28,493 You know, even though 5231 02:08:28,535 --> 02:08:30,328 I don't know all the answers, 5232 02:08:30,370 --> 02:08:33,122 even though I don't know 5233 02:08:30,370 --> 02:08:33,122 if I'll be able to eat again, 5234 02:08:33,164 --> 02:08:36,334 the difference is that I'm not 5235 02:08:33,164 --> 02:08:36,334 looking for answers. 5236 02:08:36,376 --> 02:08:39,128 I don't need to know the answer 5237 02:08:36,376 --> 02:08:39,128 to that question. 5238 02:08:39,170 --> 02:08:41,964 I'm not angry with God anymore. 5239 02:08:42,006 --> 02:08:46,511 Because I don't think 5240 02:08:42,006 --> 02:08:46,511 that He owes me anything. 5241 02:08:46,553 --> 02:08:50,097 I feel like He's given me 5242 02:08:46,553 --> 02:08:50,097 a wonderful life, 5243 02:08:50,139 --> 02:08:52,016 and I'm not even owed that. 5244 02:08:52,058 --> 02:08:55,936 And through all of the suffering 5245 02:08:52,058 --> 02:08:55,936 that I've had, 5246 02:08:55,978 --> 02:08:58,147 He's given me such comfort, 5247 02:08:58,189 --> 02:09:00,858 such peace, such joy, 5248 02:09:00,900 --> 02:09:04,028 that my life 5249 02:09:00,900 --> 02:09:04,028 is a thousand times better 5250 02:09:04,070 --> 02:09:05,697 than it was before. 5251 02:09:05,738 --> 02:09:08,157 If I could pick to go back 5252 02:09:05,738 --> 02:09:08,157 to that life before, 5253 02:09:08,199 --> 02:09:11,077 there's no way-- 5254 02:09:08,199 --> 02:09:11,077 I don't even wanna go near 5255 02:09:08,199 --> 02:09:11,077 that other life. 5256 02:09:11,118 --> 02:09:13,246 I don't want anything 5257 02:09:11,118 --> 02:09:13,246 to do with it. 5258 02:09:13,287 --> 02:09:16,457 Because the life 5259 02:09:13,287 --> 02:09:16,457 I was living before 5260 02:09:13,287 --> 02:09:16,457 was so empty 5261 02:09:16,499 --> 02:09:19,252 compared to the life 5262 02:09:16,499 --> 02:09:19,252 that I have now. 5263 02:09:19,293 --> 02:09:22,255 Now, when I wake up every day, 5264 02:09:19,293 --> 02:09:22,255 I need God. 5265 02:09:22,296 --> 02:09:24,924 I need Him 5266 02:09:22,296 --> 02:09:24,924 to get through the day. 5267 02:09:24,965 --> 02:09:26,384 And through all that, 5268 02:09:26,426 --> 02:09:30,471 my life has gotten better 5269 02:09:26,426 --> 02:09:30,471 and not worse. 5270 02:09:30,513 --> 02:09:33,433 Even though to somebody 5271 02:09:30,513 --> 02:09:33,433 maybe on the outside 5272 02:09:33,474 --> 02:09:35,935 it looks worse, but it's not. 5273 02:09:35,976 --> 02:09:38,271 I have so much more 5274 02:09:35,976 --> 02:09:38,271 happiness now 5275 02:09:38,312 --> 02:09:40,356 than I ever did before. 5276 02:09:40,398 --> 02:09:42,024 [Paul Johnson] People often 5277 02:09:40,398 --> 02:09:42,024 ponder the question, 5278 02:09:42,066 --> 02:09:45,528 "Why does God let bad things 5279 02:09:42,066 --> 02:09:45,528 happen to good people?" 5280 02:09:45,570 --> 02:09:48,281 The truth is, 5281 02:09:45,570 --> 02:09:48,281 that's only happened once, 5282 02:09:48,322 --> 02:09:49,823 and that was Christ, 5283 02:09:49,865 --> 02:09:52,993 who voluntarily 5284 02:09:49,865 --> 02:09:52,993 gave His life on the cross. 5285 02:09:53,035 --> 02:09:56,163 So that the greatest evil 5286 02:09:53,035 --> 02:09:56,163 that ever occurred 5287 02:09:56,205 --> 02:09:57,624 was used by God 5288 02:09:57,665 --> 02:10:00,209 to bring about the greatest good 5289 02:09:57,665 --> 02:10:00,209 I can think of, 5290 02:10:00,251 --> 02:10:02,795 and that is the redemption 5291 02:10:00,251 --> 02:10:02,795 of sinners for His glory. 5292 02:10:02,836 --> 02:10:07,174 One of my favorite attributes 5293 02:10:02,836 --> 02:10:07,174 of God is--is God's patience. 5294 02:10:07,216 --> 02:10:08,842 And it means 5295 02:10:08,884 --> 02:10:11,638 God doesn't give you 5296 02:10:08,884 --> 02:10:11,638 what you immediately deserve. 5297 02:10:11,679 --> 02:10:13,889 What you deserve right now 5298 02:10:11,679 --> 02:10:13,889 at this very moment 5299 02:10:13,931 --> 02:10:16,726 is to be killed 5300 02:10:13,931 --> 02:10:16,726 and to be in hell 5301 02:10:16,768 --> 02:10:18,603 for all of eternity, 5302 02:10:16,768 --> 02:10:18,603 suffering His wrath 5303 02:10:18,645 --> 02:10:21,063 because of the way you rebel 5304 02:10:18,645 --> 02:10:21,063 against the God who made you. 5305 02:10:21,105 --> 02:10:24,609 So any good thing 5306 02:10:21,105 --> 02:10:24,609 that ever happens to us 5307 02:10:24,651 --> 02:10:27,194 is a kindness, a grace from God 5308 02:10:27,236 --> 02:10:29,363 that is meant to lead us 5309 02:10:27,236 --> 02:10:29,363 to repentance. 5310 02:10:29,405 --> 02:10:31,491 [Johnson] In fact, that's 5311 02:10:29,405 --> 02:10:31,491 the real difficult question: 5312 02:10:31,532 --> 02:10:35,703 "Why do good things 5313 02:10:31,532 --> 02:10:35,703 happen to bad people?" 5314 02:10:35,745 --> 02:10:38,623 [Robert] Now here was somebody, 5315 02:10:35,745 --> 02:10:38,623 in the case of Nabeel Qureshi, 5316 02:10:38,665 --> 02:10:40,874 thousands, maybe tens 5317 02:10:38,665 --> 02:10:40,874 of thousands of people 5318 02:10:40,916 --> 02:10:42,042 prayed for him. 5319 02:10:42,084 --> 02:10:45,212 He had a young wife and a child. 5320 02:10:45,254 --> 02:10:47,214 Faith healers pronounced that 5321 02:10:47,256 --> 02:10:49,300 they were confident that God 5322 02:10:47,256 --> 02:10:49,300 was going to heal him. 5323 02:10:49,342 --> 02:10:50,551 He had everything to live for. 5324 02:10:50,593 --> 02:10:53,095 He trusted in God intensely, 5325 02:10:53,137 --> 02:10:55,348 and yet, he was not healed. 5326 02:10:55,389 --> 02:10:58,184 Uh, not the best news. 5327 02:10:58,225 --> 02:11:02,355 The doctors have pretty much 5328 02:10:58,225 --> 02:11:02,355 given up on treating me. 5329 02:11:02,396 --> 02:11:08,110 Um, they think my body is in 5330 02:11:02,396 --> 02:11:08,110 its final stages of life. 5331 02:11:08,152 --> 02:11:10,655 [Robert] 5332 02:11:08,152 --> 02:11:10,655 I certainly think 5333 02:11:08,152 --> 02:11:10,655 that at the end, 5334 02:11:10,697 --> 02:11:13,949 he was taking 5335 02:11:10,697 --> 02:11:13,949 a very good attitude 5336 02:11:13,991 --> 02:11:15,368 toward the whole matter, 5337 02:11:15,409 --> 02:11:17,495 and was confident 5338 02:11:15,409 --> 02:11:17,495 in God's love for him 5339 02:11:17,537 --> 02:11:19,539 regardless of what occurred. 5340 02:11:19,580 --> 02:11:22,333 Lord, we know You are able. 5341 02:11:22,375 --> 02:11:26,546 Please heal. 5342 02:11:22,375 --> 02:11:26,546 Please come through. 5343 02:11:26,587 --> 02:11:28,715 But if it shouldn't 5344 02:11:26,587 --> 02:11:28,715 be Your will, 5345 02:11:28,756 --> 02:11:31,884 Your sovereign will 5346 02:11:28,756 --> 02:11:31,884 at the end of the day, 5347 02:11:31,925 --> 02:11:36,263 then I trust You, 5348 02:11:31,925 --> 02:11:36,263 and I love You anyway. 5349 02:11:39,225 --> 02:11:42,520 [Robert] God's purpose 5350 02:11:39,225 --> 02:11:42,520 in redemption, ultimately, 5351 02:11:42,562 --> 02:11:45,606 is that we become perfect 5352 02:11:42,562 --> 02:11:45,606 in body and soul, 5353 02:11:45,648 --> 02:11:48,025 that we're going to be sinless 5354 02:11:48,067 --> 02:11:50,944 and immortal 5355 02:11:48,067 --> 02:11:50,944 and glorious creatures 5356 02:11:50,986 --> 02:11:54,240 who are not going to be 5357 02:11:50,986 --> 02:11:54,240 suffering anymore 5358 02:11:54,281 --> 02:11:58,536 from pain, illness, 5359 02:11:54,281 --> 02:11:58,536 and certainly not death. 5360 02:11:59,370 --> 02:12:01,205 But that's not now. 5361 02:12:01,247 --> 02:12:04,250 Right now, we live 5362 02:12:01,247 --> 02:12:04,250 in an awkward in-between time 5363 02:12:04,291 --> 02:12:07,503 in which we've been redeemed 5364 02:12:04,291 --> 02:12:07,503 from our sins 5365 02:12:07,545 --> 02:12:09,213 through faith in Jesus Christ, 5366 02:12:09,255 --> 02:12:11,799 and we have the assurance 5367 02:12:09,255 --> 02:12:11,799 of that full salvation, 5368 02:12:11,841 --> 02:12:13,926 that full redemption of our body 5369 02:12:13,967 --> 02:12:16,220 in the resurrection to come. 5370 02:12:16,262 --> 02:12:18,431 [Justin] If I have to live 5371 02:12:16,262 --> 02:12:18,431 the rest of my life 5372 02:12:18,472 --> 02:12:20,140 with cerebral palsy, 5373 02:12:20,182 --> 02:12:21,684 that's fine. 5374 02:12:21,726 --> 02:12:25,354 I've got all of eternity 5375 02:12:21,726 --> 02:12:25,354 to live without it. 5376 02:12:25,396 --> 02:12:27,314 Now please pray 5377 02:12:27,356 --> 02:12:29,400 that my daughter would be okay, 5378 02:12:29,442 --> 02:12:31,068 my wife would be okay. 5379 02:12:31,110 --> 02:12:32,653 Please pray for my family, 5380 02:12:32,695 --> 02:12:35,072 my mother, my father, my sister. 5381 02:12:35,114 --> 02:12:37,283 [Robert] Nabeel is not with us 5382 02:12:35,114 --> 02:12:37,283 anymore. 5383 02:12:37,324 --> 02:12:39,076 But I believe that if he were, 5384 02:12:39,118 --> 02:12:41,913 he would want us to learn 5385 02:12:39,118 --> 02:12:41,913 from what had happened. 5386 02:12:41,954 --> 02:12:43,664 He would want us to reflect. 5387 02:12:43,706 --> 02:12:45,291 He would want us to go back 5388 02:12:43,706 --> 02:12:45,291 to the New Testament. 5389 02:12:45,332 --> 02:12:46,959 He'd want us to read it 5390 02:12:45,332 --> 02:12:46,959 more carefully. 5391 02:12:47,000 --> 02:12:49,169 He'd want us 5392 02:12:47,000 --> 02:12:49,169 to understand better 5393 02:12:49,211 --> 02:12:51,923 what the Bible teaches 5394 02:12:49,211 --> 02:12:51,923 about faith and healing. 5395 02:12:52,757 --> 02:12:55,008 [Matt] I want to pray, 5396 02:12:55,050 --> 02:12:56,719 with faith, 5397 02:12:56,761 --> 02:12:59,346 that God would heal me 5398 02:12:56,761 --> 02:12:59,346 and heal others, 5399 02:12:59,388 --> 02:13:01,432 and expect Him to do so, 5400 02:13:01,474 --> 02:13:03,935 all the while, 5401 02:13:01,474 --> 02:13:03,935 while holding open hands, 5402 02:13:03,976 --> 02:13:06,896 knowing that the will 5403 02:13:03,976 --> 02:13:06,896 of the Lord will be done. 5404 02:13:06,938 --> 02:13:09,690 You know, I kinda base that 5405 02:13:06,938 --> 02:13:09,690 on the fiery furnace, 5406 02:13:09,732 --> 02:13:11,108 you know, Nebuchadnezzar going, 5407 02:13:11,150 --> 02:13:12,777 "We're going to throw you 5408 02:13:11,150 --> 02:13:12,777 in the flames." 5409 02:13:12,819 --> 02:13:14,445 And you remember the response? 5410 02:13:12,819 --> 02:13:14,445 The response was, 5411 02:13:14,487 --> 02:13:16,614 "Our God can save us, 5412 02:13:16,656 --> 02:13:18,157 He will save us, 5413 02:13:18,198 --> 02:13:19,700 and even if He doesn't..." 5414 02:13:19,742 --> 02:13:22,328 I mean, I'm telling you, 5415 02:13:19,742 --> 02:13:22,328 that passage for me, 5416 02:13:22,369 --> 02:13:24,288 18 months of chemo, 5417 02:13:24,330 --> 02:13:26,206 high-dose radiation, 5418 02:13:26,248 --> 02:13:28,793 to think He can, He will, 5419 02:13:28,835 --> 02:13:32,296 and even if He doesn't, 5420 02:13:28,835 --> 02:13:32,296 He's still God. 5421 02:13:32,338 --> 02:13:35,591 I think it's okay for us 5422 02:13:32,338 --> 02:13:35,591 to still want to be healed 5423 02:13:35,633 --> 02:13:37,259 and to still ask to be healed. 5424 02:13:37,301 --> 02:13:39,219 I just think that we have 5425 02:13:37,301 --> 02:13:39,219 to be careful 5426 02:13:39,261 --> 02:13:41,138 not to let it be our priority. 5427 02:13:41,180 --> 02:13:43,641 Above everything, what we need 5428 02:13:41,180 --> 02:13:43,641 is spiritual healing. 5429 02:13:43,683 --> 02:13:47,687 We need atonement for our sin, 5430 02:13:43,683 --> 02:13:47,687 healing in the soul. 5431 02:13:47,728 --> 02:13:50,690 In our pursuit of all 5432 02:13:47,728 --> 02:13:50,690 that this world has to offer, 5433 02:13:50,731 --> 02:13:52,775 our hands are so full 5434 02:13:52,817 --> 02:13:55,235 that we have no room now 5435 02:13:52,817 --> 02:13:55,235 for the gospel. 5436 02:13:55,277 --> 02:13:58,071 Maybe the bottom line is this: 5437 02:13:58,113 --> 02:14:01,200 is Christianity Jesus plus? 5438 02:14:01,241 --> 02:14:03,828 [Dr. Kim] And so perhaps 5439 02:14:01,241 --> 02:14:03,828 this is an opportunity for us to 5440 02:14:03,870 --> 02:14:05,872 get rid... 5441 02:14:05,913 --> 02:14:09,000 get rid of everything 5442 02:14:05,913 --> 02:14:09,000 that's covering up the gospel. 5443 02:14:09,041 --> 02:14:10,960 And to capture again 5444 02:14:11,002 --> 02:14:14,213 the gospel in all of its purity 5445 02:14:11,002 --> 02:14:14,213 and beauty. 5446 02:14:14,254 --> 02:14:17,550 [Dr. Lawson] There could not be 5447 02:14:14,254 --> 02:14:17,550 a more solemn charge than this 5448 02:14:17,591 --> 02:14:20,761 to preachers 5449 02:14:17,591 --> 02:14:20,761 of the word of God: 5450 02:14:20,803 --> 02:14:23,055 Preach the word. 5451 02:14:23,096 --> 02:14:24,598 [Mark] If there's some part 5452 02:14:23,096 --> 02:14:24,598 of the Bible 5453 02:14:24,640 --> 02:14:25,766 that you don't understand 5454 02:14:25,808 --> 02:14:27,560 how it connects to the gospel, 5455 02:14:27,601 --> 02:14:30,730 that's a part of the Bible 5456 02:14:27,601 --> 02:14:30,730 you're not ready to preach yet. 5457 02:14:30,771 --> 02:14:32,565 [Piper] Oh, how I pray 5458 02:14:32,606 --> 02:14:35,108 that America would be purged 5459 02:14:35,150 --> 02:14:37,319 of the health, wealth 5460 02:14:35,150 --> 02:14:37,319 and prosperity gospel. 5461 02:14:37,361 --> 02:14:40,406 And that the Christian Church 5462 02:14:37,361 --> 02:14:40,406 would be marked by 5463 02:14:40,447 --> 02:14:43,242 suffering for Christ. 5464 02:14:43,283 --> 02:14:44,869 We're to suffer well, 5465 02:14:44,911 --> 02:14:47,454 to serve faithfully, 5466 02:14:44,911 --> 02:14:47,454 and to sacrifice for the gospel. 5467 02:14:47,496 --> 02:14:49,540 [David] 5468 02:14:47,496 --> 02:14:49,540 But if Christianity 5469 02:14:49,582 --> 02:14:51,208 is just Jesus, 5470 02:14:51,250 --> 02:14:54,879 then we need to learn 5471 02:14:51,250 --> 02:14:54,879 to be content 5472 02:14:54,921 --> 02:14:56,380 in every circumstance. 5473 02:14:56,422 --> 02:14:58,298 [Katherine] I'm not 5474 02:14:56,422 --> 02:14:58,298 any better physically, 5475 02:14:58,340 --> 02:15:01,134 but I am so much happier. 5476 02:15:01,176 --> 02:15:04,263 Because I have Jesus, 5477 02:15:01,176 --> 02:15:04,263 and He's right here. 5478 02:15:04,304 --> 02:15:07,140 Because the gospel 5479 02:15:04,304 --> 02:15:07,140 is not Jesus plus anything; 5480 02:15:07,182 --> 02:15:10,310 the gospel is just plain Jesus. 5481 02:15:10,352 --> 02:15:14,189 I risked leading 5482 02:15:10,352 --> 02:15:14,189 so many other souls 5483 02:15:14,231 --> 02:15:16,233 down the same path. 5484 02:15:16,275 --> 02:15:18,527 And so, because of that, 5485 02:15:18,569 --> 02:15:22,155 I want to tell as many people 5486 02:15:18,569 --> 02:15:22,155 as I can... [sniffles] 5487 02:15:22,197 --> 02:15:26,285 not only how false it is, 5488 02:15:22,197 --> 02:15:26,285 but what the truth is. 5489 02:15:26,326 --> 02:15:27,995 [Rev. John MacArthur] 5490 02:15:26,326 --> 02:15:27,995 Every sin ever committed 5491 02:15:28,037 --> 02:15:31,082 by every person 5492 02:15:28,037 --> 02:15:31,082 who has ever lived 5493 02:15:28,037 --> 02:15:31,082 will be punished. 5494 02:15:31,123 --> 02:15:33,626 That is required 5495 02:15:31,123 --> 02:15:33,626 by divine holiness 5496 02:15:33,667 --> 02:15:36,670 and divine righteousness 5497 02:15:33,667 --> 02:15:36,670 and divine justice. 5498 02:15:36,712 --> 02:15:40,132 It will either be punished 5499 02:15:36,712 --> 02:15:40,132 everlastingly 5500 02:15:40,173 --> 02:15:42,134 in the life of the sinner, 5501 02:15:42,175 --> 02:15:44,720 or that punishment 5502 02:15:42,175 --> 02:15:44,720 will be borne by Christ. 5503 02:15:44,762 --> 02:15:46,639 His death is sufficient 5504 02:15:46,680 --> 02:15:49,349 to pay for all your sins. 5505 02:15:49,391 --> 02:15:52,436 Trust in Jesus Christ. 5506 02:15:52,478 --> 02:15:54,438 Abandon all hope 5507 02:15:52,478 --> 02:15:54,438 in your good works. 5508 02:15:54,480 --> 02:15:58,275 Abandon all hope 5509 02:15:54,480 --> 02:15:58,275 in your religiosity... 5510 02:15:58,317 --> 02:16:03,697 and trust in the person 5511 02:15:58,317 --> 02:16:03,697 and work of Christ alone. 5512 02:16:12,456 --> 02:16:14,625 [Nabeel] I think now, 5513 02:16:12,456 --> 02:16:14,625 as I consider 5514 02:16:14,667 --> 02:16:16,752 all the Christians I know 5515 02:16:14,667 --> 02:16:16,752 and their hesitations 5516 02:16:16,794 --> 02:16:18,337 to share the gospel, 5517 02:16:18,378 --> 02:16:20,422 I think it has to do 5518 02:16:18,378 --> 02:16:20,422 with a lot of factors. 5519 02:16:20,464 --> 02:16:22,800 A lot of it's just fear 5520 02:16:20,464 --> 02:16:22,800 of how others might receive us, 5521 02:16:22,842 --> 02:16:25,136 how others might reject us. 5522 02:16:25,177 --> 02:16:27,763 But I still think 5523 02:16:25,177 --> 02:16:27,763 that's horridly un-Christian, 5524 02:16:27,805 --> 02:16:29,389 because the Bible tells us 5525 02:16:29,431 --> 02:16:31,892 that we've not been given 5526 02:16:29,431 --> 02:16:31,892 a spirit of fear, 5527 02:16:31,934 --> 02:16:33,644 but a spirit of power and love. 5528 02:16:33,686 --> 02:16:35,228 I mean, what are we afraid of. 5529 02:16:35,270 --> 02:16:37,564 If someone rejects us, 5530 02:16:37,606 --> 02:16:39,232 they're not really rejecting us, 5531 02:16:39,274 --> 02:16:40,943 they're rejecting the gospel. 5532 02:16:40,985 --> 02:16:43,403 It's a result of not 5533 02:16:40,985 --> 02:16:43,403 seeing death all around us. 5534 02:16:43,445 --> 02:16:45,322 If we saw death more frequently, 5535 02:16:45,364 --> 02:16:47,908 we would be much more quick 5536 02:16:45,364 --> 02:16:47,908 to tell people, 5537 02:16:47,950 --> 02:16:50,119 "Hey, this death is real. 5538 02:16:50,161 --> 02:16:51,787 And there's something 5539 02:16:50,161 --> 02:16:51,787 we need to wrestle with 5540 02:16:51,829 --> 02:16:54,748 before we get there, 5541 02:16:51,829 --> 02:16:54,748 before it's too late." 5542 02:16:59,336 --> 02:17:02,173 [closing theme music] 324697

Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.