All language subtitles for 24 Business - Closing Interview.mp4

So you guys have made it to the end of
this tutorial.

And instead of just having clay stare
at the camera and tell you a little bit

a lot more about what he does, I
thought it would be better if we did an

interview, because I have some

questions of my own about how you were
able to get to the level that you're at

now as quickly as you did.

And

I guess we can just casually chat about
that, because I'm sure there's a lot of

photographers watching this who want to
know, hey, what's the secret.

I want to get to where you're at what's
the fastest way to that point.

So let's just go back a little bit.

And what do you think you can attribute

your success too?

So quickly?

There's a lot of photographers doing
what you do, but

not within how many years?

34 years.

That's pretty crazy.

I would say.

The biggest thing for me has been
creating creative projects

and then building upon those creative
projects.

I've always firmly believed that
creativity leads to clients.

And so when I first started
photography, it was sort of an all in

thing.

It was just like, I just

it consumed me.

Photography just took over my life, and
it was the same way that it worked in

the music business.

So when I first started, when I first
picked up a camera, I just went all in.

I invested a ton of money into my
creative projects.

And then I took those creative projects
and started pitching this stuff to

companies and brands by getting out of
my house of doing.

So, can you give me

specific stories about that?

Because I've always said this to people
as well.

Like, look, if you'd have the clients
that you want,

go take those shots on your own time
with your own money, then you'll get

those clients.

there is a little bridge there of,
like, ok, I took the pictures.

How do I then take these pictures and
get the jobs with them?

You're obviously a really social guy,
year out, like, every single night.

Can you speak specifically

with one example of the Gaga series
there, one of these series that you

did.

How did you

show these pictures to the right
people?

Yeah.

So the time when I created this Gaga
series, it was

something that loville hadn't really

seen yet really.

I mean, it was a new, fresh thing for
these creative concepts.

The scene of photography wasn't really
as established as it is now.

But when I created the gagas series, I
was assisting this photographer named

lona Wilson.

And lona Wilson was a photographer for
a local publication called end focus magazine.

And I was assisting her, really
working, really hard for, and really

working for this, hard for this
magazine, to get the buildup in those ranks.

And I went to a launch party for end
focus magazine.

I brought this book that I made of the
Gaga series, and I met the editor

there, and I handed it this book, and I
said, hey, I've been insisting lona.

You've seen me onset.

This is an example of some of my work.

And I just sort of built that
relationship.

I'd already met her, I'd already talked
to her onset.

But it's, onset it's way different.

Everybody's working.

Everybody's

focused.

But once you get into a scenario such
as a networking event, or a restaurant,

or a bar or anything like that,
suddenly, like, it's like, the focus is

not as

intense.

People are much more relaxed.

And so that's sort of an in for me to
start pitching these people and pitch

my work.

And that's what I did with Laura.

Snyder didn't focus.

Can you?

Can you talk a little bit about what
your pitch might look like.

I know I, for one struggle with the
idea of, like,

I don't want to talk about myself, and
I don't want to be a salesman.

That's like, oh, nice to meet you.

By the way, you should give me money to
do something for you.

How do you do that in a natural way?

It's hard.

I think that you don't want to be too
braggy.

You don't want to come off as cocky at
all.

You want to come off as confident in
your work.

You want to come off as somebody that
knows what they're doing.

And I think the biggest thing that my
clients now want is they want an expert

in the field.

So if you come off as something that's
really confident,

and that can really deliver what the
client needs, then they're going to be

really intrigued in that.

Now, when you first go up to somebody
in a casual conversation, the first

thing you don't want to do is, you
don't want to just hand import your

portfolio, or hand them a book, and
say, this is my work, because that just

is like, really, like, it's way
overbearing.

You first want to get to know the
person.

You want to smile you want to talk
about the city, talk about the market,

talk a little bit about things.

And you might not even show them your
work at first, you might not even just

have to pitch them.

At first, you're just start building
that relationship.

And then once you have a relationship
established, then you introduce your

work.

Or you say, hey, you know, I just did
this creative series called the Gaga

series, and you might be interested in
it.

It's got some models we both know, or
we've got some people involved, like,

hey, Gunnar was involved in this, or
something like that, and say, check it

out when you get a chance.

And here it is.

Like, if there's someone who has
something tangible, a lot of times

that's also something that can trigger
a trigger.

The next level.

Do you take it to the level where
you're like,

and you should hire me, or

are you just showing here's what I've
been up?

Yeah, you know, for me, I keep it
casual and like, hey, here's my book,

or here's this creative project.

I love for you to check it out.

If you ever need something, let me
know.

I'm just a phone call away.

I'm an email.

Here's my card.

Or you just put the card in the book.

Like,

if they want something, they're going
to get a hold of you.

And so I keep it open ended like that.

I'm like, I'd love to do something for
you.

Now there has been cases where I said,
when I went in hard, where I'm like, I

could do a better cover for this.

I went strong and almost overly
confident.

But

I think you just kind of have to play
around in that relationship.

And sometimes you'll ask that, like,
I've had a client come to me and say,

what can we do better?

And then I line out, I critique
everything about the magazine.

I say, I could do this for you and I
could deliver this.

But I think if you're just starting in
a new relationship,

I would just go in and say, here's my
work.

If you need something, let me know.

And then you follow up after that,

do you have an example of any job that
you've ever done where you approached

a company or a publication and you
said, here's what I want to do for you

and they bit, and they said, all right,
let's do it.

Yes.

So actually, one of my biggest clients
is a local publication in the voice of louville.

And I first went into a meeting with
the voice of louville, and they had

known I'd been working for in focus
magazine.

And they loved what I did over there,
and they saw the potential of what we

could do.

And I went in for a meeting, and I
said, hey, I want to shoot for your magazine.

Here's how I can make it better.

And I just lined out a few things that
I thought that I could make it just

that much better, it's that much of an
intriguing magazine, by introducing

some more drama into the editorial
pages and introducing some more fashion

stories and things like that.

And they loved it.

They loved the ideas, and hired me
right there.

Ok,

have you ever worked with anybody where

you have a vision for an individual
photograph?

Or have you just been going into, like
a bigger publication like that and

saying, hey, here's what I am capable
of doing for you?

Have you ever had a vision?

I know you've done the Gaga series and
stumbling for yourself.

Have you ever done that for anybody
else?

Well, a lot of times, people now come
to me because they trust me.

I built that loyalty.

I've built that

creative

where people trust me to develop
creative concepts with the team.

And so they might just say, hey, we
need this person.

We need miss America photographed?

How can you do it?

You can just do whatever you want, and
they trust me to do something.

So that's kind of how it is.

Now there might be a small sort of
idea, and then I have to bring that to

some sort of tangible form or in a
photograph.

But

back when I first started, there wasn't
anything where I had a clear idea for

one single photograph.

It was more like I was just paying my
dues back then and trying to create the

best work I could

for what really they needed.

What do you say to photographers

who say, you know, man, I just nobody's
hiring me, and I just I'm not really a

people person.

I don't know what to say these people,
I don't feel comfortable just walking

up to somebody and children, my book,
what advice would you give to them?

It's so interesting because

I highly recommend that everyone takes
a personality test, because personality

tests can really show where you need to
work on as a photographer.

Because some of the best photographers

are best marketing people, rather not
photographers, but businessmen and

marketers and businesswomen

are extroverts, like, they get out of
their house and they talk to people,

and they build this network of loyalty
and they build this a network of people

that I can rely on.

I think personality really plays a huge
role into brand and business, for sure.

And so I used to be somewhat of a quiet
person.

I used to

always like to enjoy socializing

with my group of friends.

But like getting and going to a place
where I know no one, I would just be in

the corner.

So it's really hard for me to just walk
up to a stranger and start a

conversation.

But I've had to learn to get over that
fear

and overcome that sort of fear.

And I think it just matters on how far
you want to take it.

I mean, if you want to do this as a
career and you want to do photography,

you're going to have to learn to
overcome fears like that.

So you think it's actually a learnable
trait?

Yes, just because you feel
uncomfortable talking to a stranger

today does not mean you always have to
be like, I think.

I think that I think that people adapt.

They can change,

personalities, can change

over the years.

I know, I know that I'm a completely
per different person than I was 1020

years ago.

I mean, I was 1020 years ago, bush,

and I'm a different person.

Than I was when I was in a band,
touring around.

I've been through a lot of personal

challenges and made a lot of
sacrifices.

Over here that's really shaped

me to be this person who I am.

Now

let's talk a little bit about

risk.

Because a lot of

very successful photographers that I
know

have taken some pretty significant
risks, whether it be with

their life, or their lifestyle, or just
straight up financial risks.

I'm not sure if you have though, and I
would imagine a lot of people watching

this.

They probably have the risk on the
horizon of, like,

I want to be a photographer, but

I don't want to quit my job.

So did you take any risks at the
beginning of your career, or are you

taking risks right now to enhance your
career?

I think risks are so important.

I think that is,

the reward is in the risk.

The bigger risk you take,

usually the bigger reward there is at
the end of the end of the day.

I have taken a lot of risks.

I would consider my gagi series at
risk, because I invested so much money

into it.

How much did that cost?

So I spent a couple thousand dollars on
that project.

And for me I was, at the time,

I was just out of a band.

I didn't really have a full time job.

I just bought a camera.

So I just invested a ton of money into
this equipment.

And so I didn't have a lot of money.

I wasn't making a money.

And at the time, I could barely afford
a cell phone bill.

So 2000 dollars was something that was
this insane to me.

But I put everything I had into this
series.

Because I had to pay hair makeup, I'd
have to pay for models, I had to pay

for locations a lot, pay for clothing,
you know, all that cost money because I

didn't know, I didn't have any
relationships built yet.

I didn't have any of that trust or
loyal to build with any sort of stylist

or hair makeup or models or anything.

So I had to pay these people for their
services.

And

so Gaga was a huge risk, and the same
goes for the

series before that, bond girls.

So I invested a ton of money into
renting locations and renting whatever

I had to do, renting lights and lenses
and what not, just

to experiment and

create a really cool project.

But the reward was so huge at the end,
because I got so much business out of

it.

And so much,

so much eyes on my work by doing those
series.

So that was one risk.

And then, recently, like doing it, my
first international workshop, like I

put a ton of finances into that, just
to make it a success and make it

everything I wanted,

as far as from a brand value standpoint
and making sure there's a total

experience for my students there.

And so that was a huge thing, putting a
ton of money into that.

And over the years, you know, I've
taken a lot of personal risks.

I've taken

risks such as climbing mountains, or
jumping out of planes, or doing things

that I feel can enhance someone's

wisdom.

personal risks are huge as well,
because it's about overcoming fear and

really becoming wiser as a person.

Let's talk a little bit about the risk,
specifically,

of going from a normal day job to
becoming a photographer.

Well, what was your

life like before you've made that lead?

Yeah, so I was in a band, and I was
working a job, doing some it in

marketing for flooring company.

I was sort of up full time, but not
really I'd a lot of leaves of absences,

because I would have to go on tour and
then come back, and then I wouldn't

have a job when I came back, and I was
like, just give me some hours.

And I was fortunate enough to have that
opportunity to work for this company

that was very lax,

was sort of laxadaisical with the
schedule, and allowed me to come back

and forth in and out.

But when I made the jump from that
company

to outdoor photogear,

that was a huge jump for me, because
that's when I put all in to just photo work,

outdoor photo gear.

It was

not much money.

I was just getting paid to do some
social media and what not.

So that was the jump I made from sort
of that full time it job into working

and doing social media for an outdoor
photo gear,

which was a photography retailer.

And then from there, I was making more
money doing photography than I was at

outdoor photo gear.

So it was more of a natural progression
for me, where it got to the point where

I just had to quit outdoor photo gear
in order to take photography on full time.

I didn't make a clear jump, if you
will.

So I had the fortunate opportunity with
the relationships that I built over the

years to have these positions and make
some money so make some supplemental

income while I was building my brand in
photography.

So it's a little bit, like I said, a
little bit more of a natural

progression for me.

But

if I was to say, like, I'm in an I t
job, and I'm jumping right into full

time, I would say that you need to be
making some significant income and

photography before you make that jump.

Like, I wouldn't make the giant leap
into the middle of nowhere, and you're

not making any money yet.

That's definitely

an error that I have seen

a lot of photographers make, where they
just say, well,

I like doing this.

People tell me to follow my dreams.

So I'm quitting at all, and I'm going
to be a photographer.

And a lot of people just assume that,
like, the second they quit their job,

all of a sudden all of these
photojopsters can start pouring in.

The same thing happens with the studio.

Like, well, the reason I'm not making
enough money right now is because I

don't have a photo studio.

But if I just could rent the photo
studio, people just be walking in my

door all day long.

What do you have to say to people like
that?

Well, it's funny, because I didn't
actually have a studio until this year.

I built a studio in my living room.

And I used that for a long time.

I hated bringing clients there because
it was in my house, and it's like,

carpet, and it's just like, it was a
small room.

It got really hot sometimes.

And, but I did that.

I just made ends meet, and I made it
work.

As a photographer, you just jump into
the unknown and you jump into the dark.

I've had some, I've heard of some
stories of people just being lucky and

making ends meet.

But you're just making ends meet.

You aren't making enough financial
foundation there

in order to build a brand, properly,
like, because it takes money to make money.

And that's something that's

definitely true in order to build a
business that you're going to have to

have some capital up front.

I think the same could be said for
people that go from a small market to a

big market, such as New York, without
any sort of partnerships built in these cities.

I see a lot of its augurers doing that.

It's like, I'm going to go follow my
dream, so I'm just going to move to New

York.

I'm just going to follow my dreams and
move to LA.

But they haven't built any real
partnerships, or they haven't had any

clients in these cities.

And it can just

lead to just to that roadblock, you
know, just where you hit a wall, and

you just can't seem to pass through it.

And a lot of times these photographers
they'll move there, and then within six

months they're moving back

because they haven't built any
relationships and haven't progressed

into that in big market yet.

Well, I was excited to do this tutorial
with you because you are in a more

normal sized market.

We've done a tutorial with Peter
Hurley, New York City, mikelly Los

Angeles, still in Patrick, New York.

And Los Angeles it's like,

when people are at the top of their
game, they usually migrate to one of

these cities and they're able to do it.

But like you said, the majority of
people couldn't even survive in these

cities because you have to be at such a
high level.

You're in Louisville, Kentucky

it's a normal

city.

It's very similar to Charleston, South
Carolina, where we live.

And so I think you have the unique
ability to give real world advice to

everybody who's watching this who might
be in a normal town or city around the

United States or around the world.

So do you have any advice

for people just trying to excel in
their small town?

Yeah, you know, so funny, like a year
ago, I was kind of considering moving

to those big markets.

I was like, man, can I do it?

Like, can I make that jump and that
leap yet?

And then I started really just kind of
owning where I live, and really just

sort of like, you know, love was
awesome.

I love it.

If maybe one day, like, it comes to
that point where I can thrive in those

markets, i'll get there.

And maybe you got to build that bubble
to be there.

But lowville's an awesome town.

It's a midsize market.

It's under a million people.

But I've been able to thrive there and
sort of be a big fish in a small pond.

It took a lot of work and a lot of
hustle to get there.

But I love being in a midsize market.

And then the other benefit of being in
Louisville is that I'm very closest.

All these other cities

in the Midwest, such as innapolis,
Cincinnati, I've got st.

Louis and Chicago and Nashville

all surround.

Glove and they're all within a few
hours away.

traveling is super easy.

But if you're in a very small market,

in a very midsized market, the best
device I can give you is to find the

right people,

build the right partnerships, and start
building trust and loyalty with the

right people that can

make these creative decisions.

Or they are building these companies,
or entrepreneurs,

or people that are doing creative
things, or they're releasing these

publications, or they're editors, or
their art directors, or they're with addingcies.

Even if you're in the smallest town,
there are some creative people that

are entrepreneurs or anything that
really had that like mind sort of mindset.

And those are the kinds of people that
you want to build trust and loyalty

with.

And those are the kinds of people that
can refer you to jobs, introduce you to

people.

And you never know what would happen if
you just work hard and you talk to the

right people.

That's that's really how I built my
business in the world.

You touched on something that I think
is really important, and that's that

it is possible to reach the top in
smaller markets, where

as a place like New York or LA,

you literally might be the best,

and you

still may not be at the top.

People are constantly

trying to get where you are, and you're
always going to be fighting for those jobs.

And it is true, you're not going to be
able to charge as much in the smaller

markets.

But

I hear all the time from wedding
photographers, ah, you know, there's just,

there's not a big market in my area.

And I'm saying, well,

are getting married?

And I agree, like they're not
accustomed to spending as much money as

they are, like here in Charlestown, to
get married.

But

you could be that guy.

Nobody stepped up

to be that guy yet.

So do you feel like you have an
advantage, maybe being in Louisville,

over going to New York or something
like that?

Absolutely, I think that.

I think that if you go to New York
you're suddenly put into a massive

pond.

And you are a super small fish.

Even if you're super talented and
you're equally talented as like the big fish,

it still doesn't matter, because you
haven't built that loyalty with the

right people yet.

And it takes a long time to do that.

If you notice, some of the top
photographers in the world are older

men and women.

They've been doing this for years and
years and years.

It's taken

decades for them to build this brand so
they can shoot for these top magazines

and these top clients.

And so for me, I have plenty of time.

I'm in no rush, but

obviously I want to continue to build
my brand, to make more money and to do

whatever I can to advance my
photography career.

But I think that I have an advantage in
little, because

nowadays, clients, a flight or travel
expenses, is just automatic, like,

it's natural.

It's like, if you have some travel
expenses that you need to build, like,

that's pretty cool.

That's not a big deal for a lot of
these clients to take care of.

So for me, being in level,

like I said, it's right in the middle
of a lot of places.

I can hop on a flight and go to Chicago
or go to New York or go wherever, and it's

not a huge deal.

It's also a lot less overhead.

Being in a small market and able to
travel to these places, in these bigger markets,

I can comfortably live, comfortably,
have a studio and thrive in louville

and sometimes do these bigger jobs in
the bigger market and have a very low

overhead.

His studio is awesome.

By the way, we were going to fly clay
here to do this tutorial, and then I

saw him working in a studio, and I'm
like, ah,

the f sover studio is way worse than
his studio.

So there's definitely a benefit.

Your studio in New York would probably
be like, 15000 dollars,

probably.

And it's and it's, 1000.

Yeah.

It's like, it's crazy.

That's great.

So we've talked a little bit about
risk.

Let's talk now about failure.

I feel like so many people, including
myself, are afraid to fail, and therefore

they won't even get to the point where
they're taking the risk, because just

the idea of it not working out is
enough for them to say, like, I don't

care about losing 2000 dollars on the
gash.

I just don't want to try something and
look stupid in front of people.

Do you have that inside of you?

Is that's something that you had to get
over?

Or do you enjoy going out and taking
risks and failing if it happened?

I think that the risk is the best part
about it,

getting out and just doing it and going
all into something.

As how I've always done everything.

And a risk is just one facet of that.

Now, failing does happen.

I've failed many times.

For example, I was on this photoshoot,
and we wanted to light paint this dress

onto this model using just flashlights.

And that means that we're opening up
the exposure, and we're trying to use

these flashlights to create a dress.

And the model was actually just wearing
a body suit.

But we would be painting and creating
this dress in camera.

And we tried it, and it was a miserable
failure.

I mean, it was awful.

And I felt so bad, because these models
had gone into,

on location with us and just froze all
night because we had to shoot it.

And I, oh, no, I did now of the studio,
yeah, and didn't have the students.

So we had to do it.

We had to do it on location.

They froze and whatever else.

And it was all bad, a scenario.

And I didn't even end up delivering any
of the images to them.

So I had to pay them because I felt so
bad and I lost money on it.

So that would consider that a failure.

But I learned what not to do, and I did
it better the next time.

And we decided to say, take the same
concept, but apply it into something

that's a little bit more realistic, and
used light painting in a different way.

And we created another concept called
the search or specter series with my

buddy Josh escridge.

And we used light painting in that and
learned what not to do to do it better

the next time.

And so I feel like, I feel like success
is built on failure.

So if you don't fail, you're not going
to do it better.

So.

And if you don't take the risk to fail,
then

it's success will never happen in the
first place.

So you had to take the risk, and you
have to be willing to fail, because the

more you fail, the more you're going to
learn.

And the more you learn, the more

success will come your way.

I always used the wake board trick
analogy, which is like, let's just say

that you have to bust 100 times before
you can land the trick.

You could either bust 100 times as
quickly as possible

and get to that 100th time and then
succeed.

Or you could

try slowly for ten years, and maybe
eventually you'll get there.

Or you could just be afraid and just
say, i'll live a track, because maybe

i'll bust you know, but you'll never
get to the point where you can actually

pull it off at the end.

So I

see there's a direct line with all of
the successful photographers I know,

and their ability to just come up with
an idea and say, let's try it.

I have no idea if it's going to work
out.

I don't know if it's going to make me
money.

I don't know if it's going to cost me
money, whatever.

But let's try it.

And all of the other people in my life,
that aren't even photographers,

that just spend so much time talking
about stuff, wouldn't it be cool if I

did this and I've been talking about
that for six years.

It would take you thirty minutes to do
that.

Just try it.

Just try it.

I think that's all they really need to
do to get over that hump.

Just start

stop talking, start trying.

Yeah, I agree.

So one thing that I've noticed about
your portfolio is that it seems to have

a lot of variety in it.

And I know that that has to do with
shooting for magazines.

And a lot of times they're just telling
you what needs to be done and you're

doing it.

But

especially when you're with your studio
work.

I know that the magazines aren't coming
up with all those set designs and

everything.

So how did you come up with the idea for

building these sets, especially when
you didn't even have a studio and you

just had your house, or you're going on
location, but you're building fake

walls out of phone corn stuff.

Where did you get that from?

It's something that I've always been a
creative person.

I've always wanted to create, and
whether it be music or graph design or

photography now.

And so set design was something, was
just another way to unleash this

creativity, if you will.

And when I just had my living room
studio, I had a very small space to

work with.

So I had to be creative.

I had to forced into a position where I
had to create backgrounds and do unique

things that

you most people do in a big, giant
space.

So I had to get creative, and I had to
design these sets.

Because for me, just the white
background was kind of boring, and just

the gray background was kind of boring,
and the black background was kind of

boring.

So for me,

I wanted to add an element of realism
to all of my photography.

And

I loved location work.

But a lot of times I couldn't take all
of this cool lighting and these models

in what they're wearing, and apply it
to a cool location, because we just

don't have that in lueu, Kentucky.

So that's when I started creating my
own sets and building sort of a vision

based upon maybe a location.

So for example, one of my photos it's
got this, like, really gold wallpaper.

And I loved this little speak, easy.

That was, I saw in New York one time
that had this like gold plating

reflective wall.

And I loved it so much as I would love
to shoot on that, but I can't,

because I'm in Kentucky, I'm flying out
tomorrow.

But I want to find wallpaper like that,
paint my own wall in my living room,

and do that shot on that.

And so I just recreated it.

And that was the basic idea behind that
entire series.

And so now I do the same thing.

If I have, if there's a small vision or
a small idea,

I can create it in my studio just by
some creativity, using some gaff tape,

some phone core, some paint, some
drywall, whatever I need to do to

create a set that provides some sort of
realism, provide some sort of location

element to a studio shot.

It's just not a seamless.

It's just not a black background.

I talked to a lot of photographers who
would say,

man, I just,

I don't have the ability to come up
with ideas like that though.

Clay, like,

if I don't have those ideas,

what should I do?

Like, I would imagine.

There are times when you're like, man,
I got to come up with something unique.

And I only have 24.

I was to do it.

You have something that you go to to
find inspiration.

Yeah, you know, I think that
inspiration is everywhere I'm asked

this a ton, like, who's your favorite
photographer?

I'm like, you know, I have my
favorites.

I have my favorite inspirational
photographers.

But that doesn't really it's not really
what inspires me.

What inspires me is actually just like
experiences in life, and like places

and people that I meet,

and that's really what can shape a
vision.

So, for example, that speaks in New
York.

I saw that goal play to wall.

I took a photo of it.

It was a texture, it was a pattern, it
was a line, it was a place,

it was a thing.

Those sort of facets of life inspire me
more than anything else.

So if I just take a snapshot,

I can save it on my phone and then
reference it later and say, that was

kind of a cool wall.

Or, hey, that was a really cool person.

And what he was wearing was really
awesome.

I want to recreate that in the studio.

I think if you just take snapshots of
the moments in life that you live,

and maybe try to

bring that into some sort of tangible
photograph, I think that that's how I'm

inspired.

Anyway, well, I feel like you've
answered the majority of questions that

I had.

I'm sure that there's some people out
there watching who, again, want to do

what you do.

Do you have any other advice for them?

Somebody getting started, who wants to
break into this industry?

Yeah, biggest thing is, when you pick
up a camera, start working with other

photographers.

So when I first started shooting, I was
not only shooting a ton and building

these creative projects and these bond
girls series in the Gaga series, I was

doing all that, but I was also
assisting six other photographers, locally,

who are also

doing creative projects and doing
really cool stuff.

And I was really working hard, as much
as I cared to learn and soak as much

knowledge as I could from these other
photographers.

And then I started incorporating what I
learned through, assisting them into my

own brands

and my own work.

And then also assisting other
photographers who leads a business,

if they can't do a job, they're going
to refer you on that job.

Or if they move away, or they

are out of town, they're going to refer
you to that client so that you can work

to them if they know that you do great
work and you're hard worker.

So people really respect other people,
and they respect hard work, and they

really respect a hard work ethic.

You know,

that's my biggest advice for people, as
well.

As you've got to get out, and you need
to assist other people that's the

fastest way.

And so many people are like, well,
instead of that, i'll pay 100 grand and

i'll learn from art school or whatever.

And I'm like, no, you could get paid
and not just learn from a book, like

you can learn from somebody who's
making money today.

But I hear people say all the time,
like, you know, I called somebody and I

tried to assist them, and they told me
they don't need any help, or they

they're not interested, or whatever.

And

what's your opinion of that.

I kind of have my own feelings there,
but what's your opinion.

When you hear somebody say that, a lot
of times people come in and they

approach me and they're like, hey, I'd
love to assist you, but you don't come

at it like assist.

They want to come and watch.

And that's, the difference is, like,

the intention is wrong.

The intention is that they want to come
and just

soak in all the knowledge and learn
from you, rather than actually working

hard for you.

And so the people that come and assist
me, I know that they have the intention

of working hard and really helping me
create this awesome image.

so if you're going and approaching
someone to assist,

just tell him that you're going to work
hard for him.

Rather than, I know how to do this, I
know how to light this, and say, hey,

I'm going to work my ass off for you.

Tell the story real quick.

I feel like your assistant hunter is
literally the best assistant I've ever seen.

He's the most hardworking dude.

And he's just like on top of everything
before I could even like, I'd be like,

ah, this camera's running out of a
matter.

He would like have the battery there.

And he doesn't work for me.

He worked for you.

Tell the story about how he got the job
working for you.

Yeah.

So hunter is nineteen years old, like,
he is just fresh out of high school,

you know.

And so he applied for my internship,
actually.

And he lived in sunnyside, Washington,
which is outside of Seattle, which is

super far from low Kentucky.

So he came in for an interview.

He flew out.

And when I was talking to, it was
funny.

I was like, hey, what are your goals?

Man?

Like, what do you want to do with
photography?

Where do you want to take this?

He was like, well, my goal is to

shoot for vanity fair and to be an
intern for clay cook.

And at that moment,

I was like, you could scratch one of
those offs like

a little bit.

And you know, you know, the thing is,
like,

it's rare that especially with, like,
normally assistance just kind of blend

in it's, like, you don't really know
them and you don't think about them.

I just kind of like, are there to
handle the dirty work, or whatever.

But like,

there's something about him that when
you meet him and you watch a mark just

for a few minutes, you're like, he's
going to be really successful, yes.

And all this leads back to the idea
when people are like yeah, you know,

I've talked to every photographer in
town, and nobody needs an assistant.

And I'm like,

there's something wrong with the way
you're approaching them.

And a lot of it, too, is about
personality.

Like, if you couldn't be friends with
hunter on a personal level,

I'm sure you wouldn't want him working
for you, even if he was working for

free.

It's just awkward having a weird person
around that you don't feel comfortable with.

So talk about that.

Like, you assisted so many people at
once.

I would imagine this goes back to just
being social in general, being able to

get along with everybody.

Yeah, I mean, I think that the number
one thing, like I said, is hard work.

And if you go into pitching somebody,
or not pitching, but just

asking if you're going to assist them,
or asking you if you can work hard for

them, and say, hey, i'll work for free,
i'll do whatever you want.

You need to have some sort of
foundation or some sort of backbone to

that.

So if you don't really have any work,
or really don't have anything to back

up what you say, then you're likely not
going to get any sort of callback.

But when it comes to,

really, when I assisted,

I didn't have that backbone, I really
didn't have much work.

I just built relationships with these
people and talk to them, because I was

so interested in photography.

And I think that really, you can see it
in people's eyes, whether they're

really hungry or not.

And I was starving.

I was very hungry to learn about
photography, and I would do anything it

took to learn.

And so I just worked very hard for
these people, just like hunter does for

me now.

And

I always say like, if you're not dirty
on a shoot, you're not working hard enough.

And so,

like every shoot, I would just be
covered in dirt, just doing whatever it

took to get the shot for these people.

And

I think the same can be applied for
anything in life.

If you work hard enough for it you'll
accomplish your dreams.

Well, that's probably

the perfect way to end this interview.

Thank you guys so much for watching
this.

And the final thing of this entire
tutorial will probably be just a few

closing words from play.

So that's it.

That's the entire tutorial.

I've shown you everything that I know,
everything that I've learned over the

past few years.

I've taken you out on location.

I've gone to the studio and done
everything in between.

So now that you've had a small glimpse
into my life and my photography, I want

you to now take all of these tips and
techniques and apply them to your own photography.

I have no doubt, the more you shoot,
the better photographer you'll become.

But if you want to make a living off
photography, I hope the business

section of this tutorial will help
increase your brand values so that you

can succeed in your own market.

It's inevitable.

You're going to have questions after
watching this tutorial.

So I've created a Facebook group in
which you can share your own images,

you can share your successes, failures.

And I'm an active member, so I can
answer all the questions that you might have.

The link for that Facebook group can be
found in the confirmation email that

you receive when you downloaded this
tutorial.

I urge you to join the Facebook group,
and I hope that you're active in it as well.

So it's really humbling to be working
and collaborating with app stoppers to

share everything I've learned
throughout, my career

directly with you.

Just remember that I can only show you
the road.

I can't take the wheel.

The only thing that is stopping you is
you.

You are your own worst enemy.

So it's up for you to define your
style, to create great images and be

unique to yourself.

So thank you so much.

From the bottom, my heart.

And I can't wait to see the images that
you produce