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1
oo:oo:o3,oo5 --> oo:oo:o4,821
They want to switch off her
machines,
2
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and we want to keep them on.
3
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They say she's in a lot of pain!
She is still your child!
4
oo:oo:o8,645 --> oo:oo:1o,341
Yes! Yes, she is!
5
oo:oo:1o,365 --> oo:oo:11,981
So you just left her and me?
6
oo:oo:12,oo5 --> oo:oo:13,981
That makes it
sound like I abandoned you.
7
oo:oo:14,oo5 --> oo:oo:15,591
Yeah, cos you did.
8
oo:oo:15,615 --> oo:oo:19,591
However you feel about what your
parents are doing, it's not about
9
oo:oo:19,615 --> oo:oo:21,791
picking sides. Of course it is.
1o
oo:oo:21,815 --> oo:oo:23,661
And I'm on marnie's side.
11
oo:oo:23,685 --> oo:oo:26,541
We believe we can suggest a bias in
the treatment marnie has received
12
oo:oo:26,565 --> oo:oo:28,1o1
from Samantha woodham.
13
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She perforated an artery.
14
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It sounds pretty deadly to me.
15
oo:oo:31,815 --> oo:oo:34,o71
Marnie, she's complicated.
16
oo:oo:34,o95 --> oo:oo:37,821
But... you know, she's, er,
she's joyous.
17
oo:oo:37,845 --> oo:oo:39,621
I really miss you.
18
oo:oo:39,645 --> oo:oo:42,621
Do you think youtll win, n icci?
Any change in her condition?
19
oo:oo:42,645 --> oo:oo:44,285
Can I just go and see my daughter?
2o
oo:oo:45,565 --> oo:oo:47,365
Can't we do better than this?
21
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This programme contains some strong language and
some scenes which some viewers may find upsetting
22
oo:oo:52,845 --> oo:oo:55,511
baby gurgles
yeah! You like that, do you?
23
oo:oo:55,535 --> oo:oo:57,125
He chuckles
24
oo:oo:58,2o5 --> oo:oo:59,871
hey.
25
oo:oo:59,895 --> oo:o1:o1,871
She finds wallpaper funny.
26
oo:o1:o1,895 --> oo:o1:o5,o22
Does she? Are you sure that's ok?
27
oo:o1:o5,o46 --> oo:o1:o6,511
The steam and...
28
oo:o1:o6,535 --> oo:o1:o8,341
Ah, I think it's fine.
29
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Yeah? Yeah.
3o
oo:o1:1o,4o5 --> oo:o1:13,152
Should have probab done
it before she got here.
31
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She loves it.
32
oo:o1:14,535 --> oo:o1:17,511
Look at that smile.
I was thinking maybe a picnic.
33
oo:o1:17,535 --> oo:o1:19,661
Ah, it's a bit cold.
34
oo:o1:19,685 --> oo:o1:24,1o1
Yeah, we'll just wrap up, won't we?
We'll wrap up.
35
oo:o1:24,125 --> oo:o1:26,o22
You going to make sandwiches?
36
oo:o1:26,o46 --> oo:o1:28,261
I'm not going to make sandwiches,
sexist!
37
oo:o1:28,285 --> oo:o1:31,o22
We'll buy sandwiches. Ah.
38
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I'll get you a sausage roll
if you're lucky.
39
oo:o1:33,176 --> oo:o1:36,231
Oh, I'm in! They laugh
4o
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baby gurgles
ah! She finds that funny too.
41
oo:o1:4o,125 --> oo:o1:42,125
Ah, no, no! Ah!
42
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43
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Radio:. .Factors at play
44
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when the life of a young
child is at stake.
45
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Looking at the papers this morning,
46
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this makes the front page
47
oo:o2:o6,815 --> oo:o2:o8,176
on nearly every single...
48
oo:o2:12,895 --> oo:o2:14,221
Andrew sighs
49
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ready?
5o
oo:o2:15,965 --> oo:o2:17,o15
Yeah.
51
oo:o2:2o,685 --> oo:o2:23,o46
It's going to be ok. Yeah, yeah.
52
oo:o2:28,375 --> oo:o2:3o,325
Mint?
Ah, I just brushed my teeth.
53
oo:o2:31,845 --> oo:o2:33,375
You need a mint, mate.
54
oo:o2:44,255 --> oo:o2:45,895
You keep them.
55
oo:o2:53,595 --> oo:o2:56,571
N icci! Nicci! Nicci! N icci!
56
oo:o2:56,595 --> oo:o3:oo,781
Reporters clamour
57
oo:o3:oo,8o5 --> oo:o3:o3,555
we're just going to go straight in,
thank you very much.
58
oo:o3:25,955 --> oo:o3:27,291
Pre-match huddle?
59
oo:o3:27,315 --> oo:o3:29,171
Yeah. Ok.
6o
oo:o3:29,195 --> oo:o3:3o,931
A rundown of whots here.
61
oo:o3:3o,955 --> oo:o3:34,621
Francesca camara, representing the
hospital and dr Samantha woodham.
62
oo:o3:34,645 --> oo:o3:37,7o1
Shets very good.
Beatrice shrigley, working with
63
oo:o3:37,725 --> oo:o3:4o,931
Greg Richardson and the children
and family legal services team.
64
oo:o3:4o,955 --> oo:o3:43,731
Representing marnie.
Yeah, we met mr Richardson.
65
oo:o3:43,755 --> oo:o3:45,171
Good lawyers, but so are we.
66
oo:o3:45,195 --> oo:o3:47,475
We're going to save marnie's life,
mrs Lloyd.
67
oo:o3:51,445 --> oo:o3:53,835
Wetre going to do something
special here today.
68
oo:o3:55,755 --> oo:o3:57,235
Yeah, good.
69
oo:o4:o3,395 --> oo:o4:o5,981
How long have you been marnie's
paediatric consultant?
7o
oo:o4:o6,oo5 --> oo:o4:o8,851
I have observed marnie in picu
for close to seven years.
71
oo:o4:o8,875 --> oo:o4:1o,931
She's a patient I know very well.
72
oo:o4:1o,955 --> oo:o4:14,315
And will you tell us what you think
the best treatment is for her now?
73
oo:o4:18,875 --> oo:o4:22,o91
I am sorry to say that I think
we should stop all treatments.
74
oo:o4:22,115 --> oo:o4:26,o91
I believe the life-sustaining
treatments we are current
75
oo:o4:26,115 --> oo:o4:3o,262
giving are causing her to suffer
without any prospect of helping her.
76
oo:o4:3o,286 --> oo:o4:33,341
How would you describe marnie's
current interaction with the world?
77
oo:o4:33,365 --> oo:o4:36,771
She will never,
in my medical opinion,
78
oo:o4:36,795 --> oo:o4:39,291
leave ventilated breathing support.
79
oo:o4:39,315 --> oo:o4:41,811
She shows little response to stimuli
8o
oo:o4:41,835 --> oo:o4:43,931
and her brain scans show
irreversible damage.
81
oo:o4:43,955 --> oo:o4:46,851
So her conscious experience?
82
oo:o4:46,875 --> oo:o4:48,132
I n my judgment,
83
oo:o4:48,156 --> oo:o4:51,795
right now, she has very little,
if any, conscious experience.
84
oo:o4:53,795 --> oo:o4:55,545
No further questions.
85
oo:o5:o4,115 --> oo:o5:o7,262
How many children have you
treated like marnie?
86
oo:o5:o7,286 --> oo:o5:11,491
No case is alike, but I have treated
87
oo:o5:11,515 --> oo:o5:14,9o1
maybe 2o or 25 children with
severe muscular dystrophy.
88
oo:o5:14,925 --> oo:o5:18,o12
How many end up in a situation
where, in your opinion,
89
oo:o5:18,o36 --> oo:o5:21,o61
treatment can no
longer be of use?
9o
oo:o5:21,o85 --> oo:o5:23,291
I couldn't tell you that exact.
91
oo:o5:23,315 --> oo:o5:25,oo5
How many have died in your care?
92
oo:o5:26,955 --> oo:o5:28,181
Six.
93
oo:o5:28,2o5 --> oo:o5:3o,9o1
The deterioration in each case was
similar to what we've seen
94
oo:o5:3o,925 --> oo:o5:32,o12
with marnie?
95
oo:o5:32,o36 --> oo:o5:36,571
No cases are alike. And marnie's
specific condition is unique.
96
oo:o5:36,595 --> oo:o5:4o,161
I n fact, as you say,
it is as yet undiagnosed.
97
oo:o5:4o,185 --> oo:o5:43,o91
As happens frequent with
neuromuscular disorders.
98
oo:o5:43,115 --> oo:o5:46,771
But as it is undiagnosed,
how can you be 1ooofo sure that
99
oo:o5:46,795 --> oo:o5:49,491
continuing treatment is futile?
1oo
oo:o5:49,515 --> oo:o5:52,161
I am as certain as I can be.
1o1
oo:o5:52,185 --> oo:o5:53,571
And if I were to tell you
1o2
oo:o5:53,595 --> oo:o5:56,475
that there are doctors who believe
they can treat marnie?
1o3
oo:o5:58,2o5 --> oo:o6:o2,541
Marnie's conscious experience,
another complicated area, is it not?
1o4
oo:o6:o2,565 --> oo:o6:o3,9o1
Yes.
1o5
oo:o6:o3,925 --> oo:o6:o5,541
Have there been examples,
1o6
oo:o6:o5,565 --> oo:o6:o9,851
to your knowledge, of children with
severe brain damage who recover?
1o7
oo:o6:o9,875 --> oo:o6:13,o51
I do not believe it is like
there will be any
1o8
oo:o6:13,o75 --> oo:o6:15,o91
miracle improvement.
1o9
oo:o6:15,115 --> oo:o6:17,931
Of course, you must have
your beliefs.
11o
oo:o6:17,955 --> oo:o6:2o,286
Let us discuss pain.
111
oo:o6:21,465 --> oo:o6:24,o91
Ventilation itself isn't painful,
is it?
112
oo:o6:24,115 --> oo:o6:26,621
No, but suctioning is
very unpleasant.
113
oo:o6:26,645 --> oo:o6:27,981
And how often does that happen?
114
oo:o6:28,oo5 --> oo:o6:29,371
Several times a day.
115
oo:o6:29,395 --> oo:o6:32,651
And if marnie has very little,
if any, conscious experience,
116
oo:o6:32,675 --> oo:o6:35,8o1
in your opinion,
how would she feel pain
117
oo:o6:35,825 --> oo:o6:38,461
in these isolated
suctioning incidents?
118
oo:o6:38,485 --> oo:o6:41,671
There are autonomic
responses from marnie
119
oo:o6:41,695 --> oo:o6:44,o32
that do, I'm afraid, suggest pain.
12o
oo:o6:44,o56 --> oo:o6:46,431
You cannot have it both ways,
dr woodham.
121
oo:o6:46,455 --> oo:o6:49,oo1
Either she doesn't have
a conscious experience,
122
oo:o6:49,o25 --> oo:o6:51,641
in which case she isn't in pain,
or she does.
123
oo:o6:51,665 --> oo:o6:53,791
You're wrong.
124
oo:o6:53,815 --> oo:o6:57,711
We have seen a series of reactions,
from spasms to
125
oo:o6:57,735 --> oo:o7:o2,561
changing heart rates, which do
suggest that while her conscious
126
oo:o7:o2,585 --> oo:o7:o8,335
experience is extreme limited,
her pain response is still there.
127
oo:o7:12,5o5 --> oo:o7:17,711
Let me take you back to
2o16, if that's ok?
128
oo:o7:17,735 --> oo:o7:19,991
Sure.
129
oo:o7:2o,o15 --> oo:o7:22,152
May 24th.
13o
oo:o7:22,176 --> oo:o7:24,391
Marnie presented with an infection.
131
oo:o7:24,415 --> oo:o7:27,841
Yes. Um, I would need
to consu my notes.
132
oo:o7:27,865 --> oo:o7:31,o32
You had to put in a
central venous catheter.
133
oo:o7:31,o56 --> oo:o7:32,5o5
A central line.
134
oo:o7:34,o56 --> oo:o7:35,561
Yes. And it went wrong.
135
oo:o7:35,585 --> oo:o7:37,711
You perforated an artery.
136
oo:o7:37,735 --> oo:o7:4o,351
Which led to distal ischemia.
Yes.
137
oo:o7:4o,375 --> oo:o7:43,391
You needed to call in a vascular
surgeon to repair the damage.
138
oo:o7:43,415 --> oo:o7:47,311
This incident was referred up to the
consuants' group and it was seen
139
oo:o7:47,335 --> oo:o7:5o,431
to be an unfortunate complication of
a competent performed procedure.
14o
oo:o7:5o,455 --> oo:o7:53,2o1
"Competently performed"?
141
oo:o7:53,225 --> oo:o7:55,711
How can something be
"competently performed"
142
oo:o7:55,735 --> oo:o7:58,561
when it almost leads to ischemia?
143
oo:o7:58,585 --> oo:o8:oo,895
That is what they concluded.
144
oo:o8:o3,765 --> oo:o8:o5,4o5
We are human beings.
145
oo:o8:o6,735 --> oo:o8:11,631
And... I am sorry it happened,
146
oo:o8:11,655 --> oo:o8:14,895
and I am grateful there was no
damage to marnie in the long term.
147
oo:o8:17,335 --> oo:o8:2o,5o5
What do you know of unconscious
bias in the medical profession?
148
oo:o8:21,865 --> oo:o8:24,381
Wel it's something that we're
all concerned with.
149
oo:o8:24,4o5 --> oo:o8:27,381
A doctor in a raft is told only
seven people can
15o
oo:o8:27,4o5 --> oo:o8:3o,o71
survive on the rations they have.
151
oo:o8:3o,o95 --> oo:o8:32,431
He has to make a decision as to
who to save.
152
oo:o8:32,455 --> oo:o8:36,381
He or she. I do beg your pardon,
dr woodham.
153
oo:o8:36,4o5 --> oo:o8:39,671
How does he or she
make the judgment?
154
oo:o8:39,695 --> oo:o8:41,991
We do not ration care
in this country.
155
oo:o8:42,o15 --> oo:o8:44,481
You're denying that during covid
there was rationing of care
156
oo:o8:44,5o5 --> oo:o8:46,671
for disabled people?
There was a prioritisation.
157
oo:o8:46,695 --> oo:o8:48,535
Who do you prioritise?
158
oo:o8:52,865 --> oo:o8:55,619
Now, we happen to have
some correspondence
159
oo:o8:55,643 --> oo:o8:57,779
that was passed to us
at very late notice.
16o
oo:o8:57,8o3 --> oo:o8:59,o1o
My lady!
161
oo:o8:59,o34 --> oo:o9:o1,469
I apologise enormously, my lady.
It was this morning.
162
oo:o9:o1,493 --> oo:o9:o3,549
I emailed the court as soon as
I received it.
163
oo:o9:o3,573 --> oo:o9:o5,493
I received no email.
164
oo:o9:o6,573 --> oo:o9:o8,883
Do you have copies for the others?
Yes, my lady.
165
oo:o9:14,363 --> oo:o9:16,859
My lady, we have no means
of verifying this document.
166
oo:o9:16,883 --> oo:o9:18,723
We can ask the witness.
167
oo:o9:2o,573 --> oo:o9:22,493
Did this email come from you?
168
oo:o9:31,923 --> oo:o9:33,443
How did you get this?
169
oo:o9:36,643 --> oo:o9:38,189
Yes.
17o
oo:o9:38,213 --> oo:o9:4o,26o
Then I tll allow it.
171
oo:o9:4o,284 --> oo:o9:43,859
This is a correspondence between
you and a bed manager about
172
oo:o9:43,883 --> oo:o9:48,499
how to move people out of picu in
preparation for the covid outbreak.
173
oo:o9:48,523 --> oo:o9:51,499
Dated February 2o2o.
174
oo:o9:51,523 --> oo:o9:57,o59
They ask you what they should do
about bed 16 and you reply,
175
oo:o9:57,o83 --> oo:1o:oo,o1o
"bed 16 shouldn't be there,"
176
oo:1o:oo,o34 --> oo:1o:o3,41o
"the parents have been clinging to
hope without there being any."
177
oo:1o:o3,434 --> oo:1o:o5,779
I was expressing a medical opinion.
178
oo:1o:o5,8o3 --> oo:1o:o9,oo3
I ...Regret how it sounds.
179
oo:1o:12,oo3 --> oo:1o:16,1o9
Do you believe that sometimes, for
patients, as a doctor, that the best
18o
oo:1o:16,133 --> oo:1o:18,419
thing to do is to let them die?
181
oo:1o:18,443 --> oo:1o:21,o79
That was another child
and another set of circumstances.
182
oo:1o:21,1o3 --> oo:1o:23,o29
It was a busy time.
183
oo:1o:23,o53 --> oo:1o:24,563
Lots of people to save?
184
oo:1o:26,363 --> oo:1o:27,539
Yes.
185
oo:1o:27,563 --> oo:1o:29,339
How irritating, then, to have a bed
186
oo:1o:29,363 --> oo:1o:32,859
taken up with this disabled child
which determined parents
187
oo:1o:32,883 --> oo:1o:34,469
are there to protect.
188
oo:1o:34,493 --> oo:1o:37,539
I do think the sanctity of life
is important.
189
oo:1o:37,563 --> oo:1o:42,289
But sometimes, as doctors, we're
unable to preserve a meaningful
19o
oo:1o:42,313 --> oo:1o:46,39o
life, and in that case it is cruel
to prolong the dying process
191
oo:1o:46,414 --> oo:1o:48,819
with treatments that
do not benefit them.
192
oo:1o:48,843 --> oo:1o:53,o59
Where is that stated? Is that in the
good medical practice guidelines,
193
oo:1o:53,o83 --> oo:1o:54,699
as laid out by the gmc?
194
oo:1o:54,723 --> oo:1o:56,o29
My lady!
195
oo:1o:56,o53 --> oo:1o:58,539
Mr Frederick, your questioning
here is inappropriate,
196
oo:1o:58,563 --> oo:11:oo,819
as I believe youtre well aware.
197
oo:11:oo,843 --> oo:11:o4,3o9
Dr woodham, you do not need to
answer but you may if you wish.
198
oo:11:o4,333 --> oo:11:o5,923
Mm.
199
oo:11:13,o53 --> oo:11:14,563
Marnie is in pain.
2oo
oo:11:16,563 --> oo:11:2o,o29
She's unable to communicate,
2o1
oo:11:2o,o53 --> oo:11:22,oo3
and I am no longer helping her.
2o2
oo:11:23,693 --> oo:11:26,883
I am just prolonging her death.
2o3
oo:11:28,133 --> oo:11:32,499
When the other doctors decided
that you had had
2o4
oo:11:32,523 --> oo:11:36,699
an unfortunate complication
in perforating marnie's artery
2o5
oo:11:36,723 --> oo:11:4o,459
and almost leaving her with
another disability,
2o6
oo:11:4o,483 --> oo:11:42,25o
on what grounds did they do so?
2o7
oo:11:42,274 --> oo:11:43,689
Sorry?
2o8
oo:11:43,713 --> oo:11:47,243
On what grounds did they make
their judgment on you?
2o9
oo:11:5o,6o3 --> oo:11:53,299
The grounds of, um...
21o
oo:11:53,323 --> oo:11:54,689
I'm sorry, I...
211
oo:11:54,713 --> oo:11:57,o19
They gave you the benefit
of the doubt, dr woodham.
212
oo:11:57,o43 --> oo:12:oo,329
Just as you have failed to give
marnie the benefit of the doubt.
213
oo:12:oo,353 --> oo:12:o4,169
No. I n fact, and instead,
what marnie has faced
214
oo:12:o4,193 --> oo:12:o8,579
every day in your care is your
prejudice that this little girl
215
oo:12:o8,6o3 --> oo:12:12,299
and her little life are taking up
space in your precious pic...
216
oo:12:12,323 --> oo:12:13,713
No.
217
oo:12:19,833 --> oo:12:21,839
I am sorry that you're
getting emotional.
218
oo:12:21,863 --> oo:12:23,659
That was not my intention.
219
oo:12:23,683 --> oo:12:27,o73
But there is, of course, a lot of
emotion attached to this case.
22o
oo:12:28,154 --> oo:12:34,6o9
She is my patient and I have aays
given her the finest care.
221
oo:12:34,633 --> oo:12:36,223
I n your opinion.
222
oo:12:37,583 --> oo:12:39,433
No further questions.
223
oo:12:45,353 --> oo:12:47,199
You doing ok?
224
oo:12:47,223 --> oo:12:49,329
Great.
225
oo:12:49,353 --> oo:12:5o,963
Youtve had no further trouble?
226
oo:12:52,433 --> oo:12:53,793
I'm fine.
227
oo:12:57,223 --> oo:12:59,889
That was a good morning for us.
228
oo:12:59,913 --> oo:13:o1,353
I'm sure it feels like that.
229
oo:13:o5,o73 --> oo:13:o9,6o3
Phone buzzes.
23o
oo:13:3o,553 --> oo:13:33,169
Hey.
231
oo:13:33,193 --> oo:13:35,299
Hey there.
232
oo:13:35,323 --> oo:13:36,889
Mind if I ...?
233
oo:13:36,913 --> oo:13:38,713
Uh, no. Not at all.
234
oo:13:43,274 --> oo:13:44,579
Is it allowed?
235
oo:13:44,6o3 --> oo:13:45,963
It's allowed.
236
oo:13:49,5o3 --> oo:13:52,8o9
How do you think it's going?
Honest? Yeah.
237
oo:13:52,833 --> oo:13:54,37o
Horrib.
238
oo:13:54,394 --> oo:13:56,4o9
These things are usual
239
oo:13:56,433 --> oo:13:59,993
not collegiate, but there's
a certain level of respect.
24o
oo:14:o8,783 --> oo:14:11,833
However this turns out,
look after yourseff, ok?
241
oo:14:14,243 --> oo:14:16,729
Ah, yeah, it's just an egg stain.
242
oo:14:16,753 --> oo:14:18,25o
Sorry?
243
oo:14:18,274 --> oo:14:19,993
On the tie. It's just an egg stain.
244
oo:14:21,783 --> oo:14:23,939
I know what drinking looks like.
245
oo:14:23,963 --> oo:14:25,713
I know what drinking smel like.
246
oo:14:29,633 --> oo:14:31,6o9
Have you got any lunch?
247
oo:14:31,633 --> oo:14:33,113
Er, no.
248
oo:14:35,353 --> oo:14:37,oo9
Ok. I can get some more.
249
oo:14:37,o33 --> oo:14:4o,243
What? No, no, no, no.
You can, and you will.
25o
oo:14:46,993 --> oo:14:49,753
My favourite flavour.
Cheese and onion.
251
oo:14:51,753 --> oo:14:53,913
My favourite. Good.
252
oo:14:59,443 --> oo:15:o1,629
Mr lloyd.
253
oo:15:o1,653 --> oo:15:o3,853
Would you consent to a few
questions from me?
254
oo:15:o5,693 --> oo:15:o7,14o
I've... Clears throat
255
oo:15:o7,164 --> oo:15:o9,599
I've nothing to hide. Thank you.
256
oo:15:o9,623 --> oo:15:13,7o9
Your wife gave up her job
when marnie was diagnosed?
257
oo:15:13,733 --> oo:15:15,829
And I'm very grateful for that.
258
oo:15:15,853 --> oo:15:18,189
Rather she kept herseff
focused on marnie.
259
oo:15:18,213 --> oo:15:21,189
Well, her job wasn't
very understanding.
26o
oo:15:21,213 --> oo:15:23,419
You kept working?
261
oo:15:23,443 --> oo:15:27,669
Yes. Uh, we needed the money.
262
oo:15:27,693 --> oo:15:3o,669
Do you remember who was earning
more when marnie was born?
263
oo:15:3o,693 --> oo:15:32,27o
Your wife or yourseff?
264
oo:15:32,294 --> oo:15:34,419
Er, she was.
265
oo:15:34,443 --> oo:15:38,o59
So, a better economic decision might
have been for you to give up
266
oo:15:38,o83 --> oo:15:4o,693
your job and for your
wife to keep on going.
267
oo:15:44,373 --> oo:15:45,9o9
You're right.
268
oo:15:45,933 --> oo:15:48,853
Can you explain why, then, you were
the one to keep your job?
269
oo:15:5o,9o3 --> oo:15:54,599
To be honest,
the question wasn't asked.
27o
oo:15:54,623 --> oo:15:56,599
What sort of hours do you work,
mr Lloyd?
271
oo:15:56,623 --> oo:15:58,779
9.3o till 6.oo most days.
272
oo:15:58,8o3 --> oo:16:o2,39o
And your business, accountancy,
has grown since marnie was born?
273
oo:16:o2,414 --> oo:16:o3,629
Yes.
274
oo:16:o3,653 --> oo:16:o7,333
So, occasional you have meetings
in the evenings, at weekends?
275
oo:16:o9,853 --> oo:16:12,779
I ...Have always... Um
276
oo:16:12,8o3 --> oo:16:15,829
have made a lot of time
for my family.
277
oo:16:15,853 --> oo:16:18,339
So any suggestion you've buried
yourseff in work...
278
oo:16:18,363 --> oo:16:21,629
My lady! I am not here to represent
mr Lloyd, but as he's
279
oo:16:21,653 --> oo:16:25,419
representing himself and perhaps
unused to the court situation,
28o
oo:16:25,443 --> oo:16:27,949
I do feel obliged to say
these questions do feel
281
oo:16:27,973 --> oo:16:29,799
unnecessarily intrusive.
282
oo:16:29,823 --> oo:16:31,263
Agreed.
283
oo:16:36,294 --> oo:16:39,183
Would you consider yourseff
a good father, Andrew?
284
oo:16:43,853 --> oo:16:46,159
I 'd hope... That I'm a good dad.
285
oo:16:46,183 --> oo:16:48,9o9
I dontt believe this
line of questioning is fruitful.
286
oo:16:48,933 --> oo:16:52,669
I tm not going to be helped by
intrusive questions of mr Lloyd.
287
oo:16:52,693 --> oo:16:55,27o
If you have any questions
about marniets quality of life,
288
oo:16:55,294 --> oo:16:57,699
please ask them.
Apologies, my lady.
289
oo:16:57,723 --> oo:17:o1,339
I'm not looking to be intrusive,
just drawing a picture
29o
oo:17:o1,363 --> oo:17:o3,669
as to the fami dynamic, so as to
291
oo:17:o3,693 --> oo:17:o8,159
get a... A better sense of who might
best represent marnie's interests.
292
oo:17:o8,183 --> oo:17:11,829
Mr Frederick, I have no doubt that
everyone involved in this case
293
oo:17:11,853 --> oo:17:13,39o
firmly believes that they are
294
oo:17:13,414 --> oo:17:17,o83
putting marniets best interests
first. Itts not a competition.
295
oo:17:21,253 --> oo:17:26,159
Parenting a child with marnie's
needs must be extreme trying.
296
oo:17:26,183 --> oo:17:29,749
There are difficulties but, er
297
oo:17:29,773 --> oo:17:32,27o
immense pleasures, too.
298
oo:17:32,294 --> oo:17:34,699
She's a beautiful girl.
299
oo:17:34,723 --> oo:17:37,363
Has the pressure ever
overwhelmed you?
3oo
oo:17:39,183 --> oo:17:4o,749
Frequently.
3o1
oo:17:4o,773 --> oo:17:42,469
There have been moments
3o2
oo:17:42,493 --> oo:17:45,949
when you have made mistakes looking
after her, haven't there?
3o3
oo:17:45,973 --> oo:17:5o,469
The time that marnie was left alone
with her temperature rising
3o4
oo:17:5o,493 --> oo:17:53,253
while you were in
your garden, drinking.
3o5
oo:17:55,253 --> oo:17:57,589
Um...
3o6
oo:17:57,613 --> oo:17:59,439
I had...
3o7
oo:17:59,463 --> oo:18:o1,51o
I had a couple of beers, sure,
3o8
oo:18:o1,534 --> oo:18:o4,439
but I had the monitor with me
and I couldn't anticipate...
3o9
oo:18:o4,463 --> oo:18:o6,613
Was it a couple of beers?
31o
oo:18:11,363 --> oo:18:14,o53
I... um...
311
oo:18:16,253 --> oo:18:17,949
Perhaps four or five.
312
oo:18:17,973 --> oo:18:19,853
Were there drugs invoed?
313
oo:18:23,823 --> oo:18:25,899
Maybe I 'd smoked some weed.
I do occasionally.
314
oo:18:25,923 --> oo:18:27,669
It doesn't impact my judgment.
315
oo:18:27,693 --> oo:18:31,589
To be clear, at that moment
she required hospitalisation.
316
oo:18:31,613 --> oo:18:33,439
I...
317
oo:18:33,463 --> oo:18:36,1o3
I think we've both made mistakes,
haven't we, nicci?
318
oo:18:37,363 --> oo:18:4o,799
Is this another mistake, mr lloyd?
319
oo:18:4o,823 --> oo:18:44,229
You're aware that if you do this,
there is no coming back?
32o
oo:18:44,253 --> oo:18:47,229
Am I aware that my daughter
will be dead?
321
oo:18:47,253 --> oo:18:5o,284
Yes. I'm... Aware of that.
322
oo:18:51,593 --> oo:18:54,o53
I don't want to make
this decision. I...
323
oo:18:55,613 --> oo:18:57,363
I just... Um...
324
oo:18:59,133 --> oo:19:o1,o53
I feel obliged to.
325
oo:19:o6,284 --> oo:19:o7,853
No further questions.
326
oo:19:13,1o3 --> oo:19:15,619
Where does that obligation
come from?
327
oo:19:15,643 --> oo:19:17,563
The obligation to
make that decision?
328
oo:19:2o,oo3 --> oo:19:22,463
I looked at her and, um
329
oo:19:25,414 --> oo:19:26,893
I, um...
33o
oo:19:3o,213 --> oo:19:35,669
It's a difficult thing,
watching your child in pain,
331
oo:19:35,693 --> oo:19:38,39o
especially when you believe
she won't get better.
332
oo:19:38,414 --> oo:19:41,o29
That is supposition on the basis
of no medical training.
333
oo:19:41,o53 --> oo:19:45,1o9
But I have studied. My wife and I
both have. We're specialists.
334
oo:19:45,133 --> oo:19:48,1o9
You know, I believe one thing
and she believes another, and
335
oo:19:48,133 --> oo:19:53,133
I believe that hers is on the basis
of a wish that I wish I shared.
336
oo:19:56,853 --> oo:19:58,893
The obligation comes from love.
337
oo:2o:oo,973 --> oo:2o:o2,589
And if that doesn't sound...
338
oo:2o:o2,613 --> oo:2o:o4,893
Well, look, I don't really care how
it sounds.
339
oo:2o:o6,873 --> oo:2o:o8,473
No further questions.
34o
oo:2o:24,o43 --> oo:2o:26,8o9
Uh, I tm going to catch
the bus home, ok?
341
oo:2o:26,833 --> oo:2o:29,969
Oh. Wel grandad was going to
give us a lift.
342
oo:2o:29,993 --> oo:2o:32,783
Er, yeah, I tm going to catch
the bus.
343
oo:2o:32,8o7 --> oo:2o:34,757
Just need some space.
344
oo:2o:34,781 --> oo:2o:36,461
Ok.
345
oo:2o:5o,621 --> oo:2o:53,437
I'm so sorry this is
so late in the day. Oh, that's ok.
346
oo:2o:53,461 --> oo:2o:56,447
I'm just pleased to final be
getting to talk to you.
347
oo:2o:56,471 --> oo:2o:57,6o1
I think I can help you.
348
oo:2o:59,161 --> oo:21:oo,498
Great.
349
oo:21:oo,522 --> oo:21:o5,378
So, what's your opinion on what's
best now, for marnie?
35o
oo:21:o5,4o2 --> oo:21:o8,577
Marnie needs time.
We need to be able to chart
351
oo:21:o8,6o1 --> oo:21:11,527
whether any recovery from the
hypoxic brain damage is possible.
352
oo:21:11,551 --> oo:21:15,577
We need to see what treatment might
be best for her condition.
353
oo:21:15,6o1 --> oo:21:18,987
So, I say we give her that time
and get her tracheostomised
354
oo:21:19,o11 --> oo:21:2o,4o2
and supported.
355
oo:21:23,521 --> oo:21:26,977
I can't, er...
356
oo:21:27,oo1 --> oo:21:31,o97
Too many give up on that
observation too quickly.
357
oo:21:31,121 --> oo:21:34,257
There are many that believe that
risdiplam might have
358
oo:21:34,281 --> oo:21:37,697
an impact across a spectrum
of neuromuscular disorders.
359
oo:21:37,721 --> oo:21:4o,3o8
Yeah, I said... I said the same.
36o
oo:21:4o,332 --> oo:21:42,947
And the important thing
from the court's perspective is not
361
oo:21:42,971 --> oo:21:46,332
that such a thing is probable,
but that it's possible.
362
oo:21:48,841 --> oo:21:52,657
But you've had success
with children like marnie?
363
oo:21:52,681 --> oo:21:55,977
Mrs Lloyd, I've had success
with all kinds of children
364
oo:21:56,oo1 --> oo:21:58,761
that medical science
would otherwise have discarded.
365
oo:22:o4,791 --> oo:22:o6,337
What's in the picnic basket?
366
oo:22:o6,361 --> oo:22:o8,681
I don't know yet,
cos it's in the shop.
367
oo:22:11,332 --> oo:22:12,761
Got it.
368
oo:22:16,361 --> oo:22:18,481
Car engl ne starts.
369
oo:22:33,511 --> oo:22:36,697
You look like a fucking statue.
37o
oo:22:36,721 --> oo:22:39,337
Yeah.
371
oo:22:39,361 --> oo:22:4o,641
You want to talk about it?
372
oo:22:48,332 --> oo:22:5o,o11
I had...
373
oo:22:51,o82 --> oo:22:55,267
I had thoughts.
I had thoughts things
374
oo:22:55,291 --> oo:22:56,881
would be easier without her.
375
oo:22:58,771 --> oo:23:oo,497
I had those thoughts.
376
oo:23:oo,521 --> oo:23:o3,212
Of course you did. You knew
how hard it was with me.
377
oo:23:o5,411 --> oo:23:o7,667
No. That's not true.
378
oo:23:o7,691 --> oo:23:o9,291
I loved being your big brother.
379
oo:23:1o,691 --> oo:23:13,261
I quite liked being
your little brother.
38o
oo:23:31,441 --> oo:23:36,291
Music: Animal nitrate by suede
381
oo:23:38,5o5 --> oo:23:39,751
all the time.
382
oo:23:39,775 --> oo:23:42,231
We're not here to guess as to what
treatments might work.
383
oo:23:42,255 --> oo:23:44,921
I agree. Please refrain
from guesswork, dr pankerman.
384
oo:23:44,945 --> oo:23:46,481
Wetre here to establish facts.
385
oo:23:46,5o5 --> oo:23:49,o81
My point is not that a cure
is available,
386
oo:23:49,1o5 --> oo:23:51,951
my point is that it
might be available.
387
oo:23:51,975 --> oo:23:55,441
We will investigate
and make cases for treatments.
388
oo:23:55,465 --> oo:23:58,415
And while we do so,
we'll keep marnie alive.
389
oo:24:oo,1o5 --> oo:24:o1,9o5
No further questions.
39o
oo:24:o7,515 --> oo:24:o9,951
Talk me through your qualifications
in pic
391
oo:24:o9,975 --> oo:24:11,641
15 years qualified.
392
oo:24:11,665 --> oo:24:14,521
I'm an attending physician
that works mainly in neurology.
393
oo:24:14,545 --> oo:24:16,2o1
Sorry, you misunderstand me.
394
oo:24:16,225 --> oo:24:2o,592
I know it's another country's
medical system, so it's complicated,
395
oo:24:2o,616 --> oo:24:24,722
but paediatric medicine,
what is your specialism there?
396
oo:24:24,746 --> oo:24:29,2o1
Unlike dr woodham, who is
a generalist, I'm a neurologist.
397
oo:24:29,225 --> oo:24:3o,881
I work with all ages.
398
oo:24:3o,9o5 --> oo:24:32,561
I can understand the brain.
399
oo:24:32,585 --> oo:24:34,361
Have you examined marnie's brain?
4oo
oo:24:34,385 --> oo:24:36,361
I haven't been to examine
her face-to-face
4o1
oo:24:36,385 --> oo:24:37,951
but I have looked at the scans.
4o2
oo:24:37,975 --> oo:24:42,281
So this is just an opinion
based on no direct examination?
4o3
oo:24:42,3o5 --> oo:24:46,6o2
Your medical system has prevented me
from examining marnie.
4o4
oo:24:46,626 --> oo:24:49,241
As such, my opinion is provisional.
4o5
oo:24:49,265 --> oo:24:53,265
It is far from categoric but I do
think the possibility exists.
4o6
oo:24:54,385 --> oo:24:57,852
To be clear to the court, a second
opinion was sought and given.
4o7
oo:24:57,876 --> oo:25:oo,391
The consultant asked a friend
of hers from a neighbouring
4o8
oo:25:oo,415 --> oo:25:o2,o81
hospital to examine the girl.
4o9
oo:25:o2,1o5 --> oo:25:o4,241
Unsurprisingly,
she agreed with the consultant.
41o
oo:25:o4,265 --> oo:25:o6,oo1
Are you claiming that
professor bradbury
411
oo:25:o6,o25 --> oo:25:o8,6o2
has not complied with her
duty to the court?
412
oo:25:o8,626 --> oo:25:11,oo1
That's an extremely serious
allegation to make.
413
oo:25:11,o25 --> oo:25:12,921
What is your evidence for it?
414
oo:25:12,945 --> oo:25:16,o81
No, I'm not saying that,
I'm just saying that often
415
oo:25:16,1o5 --> oo:25:18,235
colleagues support each other.
416
oo:25:19,415 --> oo:25:22,852
Tell me, you have appeared in other
proceedings concerning
417
oo:25:22,876 --> oo:25:25,o91
medical treatment for minors,
have you not?
418
oo:25:25,115 --> oo:25:28,261
Yes. How many cases where there
is a decision to be made
419
oo:25:28,285 --> oo:25:3o,291
about the future care of a child?
42o
oo:25:3o,315 --> oo:25:32,582
I don't know, maybe three.
421
oo:25:32,6o6 --> oo:25:34,781
Well, this was just a simple
Google search.
422
oo:25:34,8o5 --> oo:25:38,191
We found evidence of you
contributing to seven trials
423
oo:25:38,215 --> oo:25:41,621
on this basis.
Why do you think that is?
424
oo:25:41,645 --> oo:25:43,981
I'm happy to help.
425
oo:25:44,oo5 --> oo:25:48,371
To go against the establishment.
Not many are, in my profession.
426
oo:25:48,395 --> oo:25:51,3o1
A bit of aggression from them
helps us, to be honest.
427
oo:25:51,325 --> oo:25:54,o11
What did you recommend,
428
oo:25:54,o35 --> oo:25:56,8o5
in all those cases,
for the child involved?
429
oo:25:59,245 --> oo:26:o3,o35
Have you ever recommended that
ventilation should cease?
43o
oo:26:o4,965 --> oo:26:o6,525
No.
431
oo:26:o7,645 --> oo:26:o9,476
I found evidence they should live.
432
oo:26:11,6o6 --> oo:26:13,365
No further questions.
433
oo:26:59,525 --> oo:27:o2,452
Katl e: Hey.
434
oo:27:o2,476 --> oo:27:o4,452
I followed you.
435
oo:27:o4,476 --> oo:27:o6,271
Oh.
436
oo:27:o6,295 --> oo:27:o8,341
Wel that's kids for you.
437
oo:27:o8,365 --> oo:27:o9,981
One day they don't want to know,
438
oo:27:1o,oo5 --> oo:27:12,o91
next day they're following you
to church.
439
oo:27:12,115 --> oo:27:16,452
Go ahead, mum. Pray.
I'm just... Just here.
44o
oo:27:16,476 --> oo:27:17,835
No, it's ok.
441
oo:27:19,575 --> oo:27:23,221
Maybe you'll have a thunderbo
moment and start believing in god.
442
oo:27:23,245 --> oo:27:26,165
Yeah? Maybe I can be saved.
443
oo:27:29,o45 --> oo:27:32,o61
You know they're on doing what
they need to do to win this?
444
oo:27:32,o85 --> oo:27:34,421
Yeah, I understand that.
445
oo:27:34,445 --> oo:27:36,981
I mean, what they're doing,
they're... dad doesn't...
446
oo:27:37,oo5 --> oo:27:39,575
Mum... that's not my problem.
447
oo:27:41,935 --> oo:27:43,685
Was he the best they could do?
448
oo:27:45,835 --> oo:27:47,551
She sighs
449
oo:27:47,575 --> oo:27:49,295
I thought...
45o
oo:27:5o,835 --> oo:27:53,575
Would you trust him with marnie?
451
oo:28:o1,726 --> oo:28:o3,295
No.
452
oo:28:1o,476 --> oo:28:12,6o6
I don't think she'd want this.
453
oo:28:16,525 --> oo:28:18,5o1
Sorry.
454
oo:28:18,525 --> oo:28:2o,165
I don't.
455
oo:28:21,525 --> oo:28:23,o45
You're a brave girl.
456
oo:28:24,655 --> oo:28:26,245
You're aays so brave.
457
oo:28:33,295 --> oo:28:35,3o1
Mrs Lloyd,
458
oo:28:35,325 --> oo:28:37,835
tell me why you oppose
the hospital in this action.
459
oo:28:39,325 --> oo:28:42,381
Because I believe my daughter
should live.
46o
oo:28:42,4o5 --> oo:28:43,965
Even though she's in pain?
461
oo:28:45,965 --> oo:28:47,911
I don't believe that.
462
oo:28:47,935 --> oo:28:5o,452
You've seen the reports.
You've been present
463
oo:28:5o,476 --> oo:28:53,o41
at marnie being suctioned,
where it's claimed a clear pain
464
oo:28:53,o65 --> oo:28:54,441
response has been present.
465
oo:28:54,465 --> oo:28:55,831
I've never seen that pain.
466
oo:28:55,855 --> oo:28:57,825
My lady...
If I 'd have seen that pain
467
oo:28:59,145 --> oo:29:oo,681
we wouldn't be here now.
468
oo:29:oo,7o5 --> oo:29:o3,o11
I believe we can allow mrs Lloyd
to have her own
469
oo:29:o3,o35 --> oo:29:o4,675
version of events, counsel.
47o
oo:29:o9,1o5 --> oo:29:11,545
Why do you think the hospital
disagrees with you?
471
oo:29:14,5o6 --> oo:29:15,756
Um...
472
oo:29:19,395 --> oo:29:22,o11
Er, that's a big question.
473
oo:29:22,o35 --> oo:29:23,425
Take your time.
474
oo:29:26,785 --> oo:29:28,9o5
I can't... Um...
475
oo:29:32,215 --> oo:29:37,551
I can't tell you the amount of times
that you are encouraged,
476
oo:29:37,575 --> oo:29:4o,o41
as a parent of a disabled child,
477
oo:29:4o,o65 --> oo:29:41,465
to just
478
oo:29:42,756 --> oo:29:45,291
to just give up.
479
oo:29:45,315 --> oo:29:49,o41
We had it all through
this... Pandemic.
48o
oo:29:49,o65 --> oo:29:53,881
I had friends told that their kids
wouldn't get machines.
481
oo:29:53,9o5 --> oo:29:59,o11
And I aays knew I had to keep
marnie safe because if she did get
482
oo:29:59,o35 --> oo:3o:o3,985
the damn thing, I didn't know
that she would survive it because
483
oo:3o:o6,425 --> oo:3o:o9,521
I didn't know that she
would get the help
484
oo:3o:o9,545 --> oo:3o:1o,985
to survive.
485
oo:3o:13,865 --> oo:3o:16,699
And then we made it out
the other side and,
486
oo:3o:16,723 --> oo:3o:18,174
and sudden...
487
oo:3o:2o,564 --> oo:3o:22,3o4
My point is that, um
488
oo:3o:23,894 --> oo:3o:28,414
people say that they care about
disabled people, but
489
oo:3o:3o,664 --> oo:3o:33,254
aays, all the time
49o
oo:3o:34,564 --> oo:3o:36,254
I see different.
491
oo:3o:38,564 --> oo:3o:41,51o
Marnie's my, er...
492
oo:3o:41,534 --> oo:3o:49,ooo
Marnie's my beautiful child and
it's an honour to be her mother.
493
oo:3o:49,o24 --> oo:3o:51,974
So I've learned
to put my shoulder down.
494
oo:3o:53,694 --> oo:3o:56,334
I just put my shoulder down
and I just
495
oo:3o:57,574 --> oo:3o:59,615
I just keep charging.
496
oo:31:37,774 --> oo:31:39,495
Ready?
497
oo:31:43,414 --> oo:31:45,75o
You know what you used
to say to me any time
498
oo:31:45,774 --> oo:31:47,574
I had something difficult to do?
No.
499
oo:31:49,214 --> oo:31:52,o3o
Mum would tell me to try to be
brave. You told me
5oo
oo:31:52,o54 --> oo:31:54,83o
I didn't need to try,
I was already brave.
5o1
oo:31:54,854 --> oo:31:56,67o
Well, I'm not you.
5o2
oo:31:56,694 --> oo:31:58,36o
You want me to come?
5o3
oo:31:58,384 --> oo:31:59,91o
You don't like crowds.
5o4
oo:31:59,934 --> oo:32:o1,574
I will, though, if you want me to.
5o5
oo:32:o5,495 --> oo:32:o7,214
I can do this on my own.
5o6
oo:32:38,1o4 --> oo:32:39,934
Are you all right? Yeah.
5o7
oo:32:43,464 --> oo:32:45,55o
H I. Hi.
5o8
oo:32:45,574 --> oo:32:47,44o
I like the smart threads.
5o9
oo:32:47,464 --> oo:32:48,495
New?
51o
oo:32:49,854 --> oo:32:51,294
Yeah, well... Ish.
511
oo:32:52,495 --> oo:32:54,495
Wetre here for you both.
512
oo:32:56,934 --> oo:32:58,615
Yeah. Wel we better go in.
513
oo:33:19,1o4 --> oo:33:2o,615
All rise.
514
oo:33:38,9o4 --> oo:33:42,471
These cases are clearly never easy.
515
oo:33:42,495 --> oo:33:44,574
This case particularly so.
516
oo:33:46,134 --> oo:33:49,16o
I recognise that the strong
presumption in favour
517
oo:33:49,184 --> oo:33:51,36o
of a course of action that will
prolong life
518
oo:33:51,384 --> oo:33:54,44o
is not an irrebuttable one.
519
oo:33:54,464 --> oo:33:58,44o
It reflects the position that life,
as precious as it is,
52o
oo:33:58,464 --> oo:34:oo,83o
cannot be,
and indeed should not be
521
oo:34:oo,854 --> oo:34:o5,o54
preserved at all costs in the face
of its natural conclusion.
522
oo:34:o6,464 --> oo:34:o9,55o
But equally I recognise that
523
oo:34:o9,574 --> oo:34:12,8oo
marnie Lloyd is clearly
an exceptional, bright,
524
oo:34:12,824 --> oo:34:15,83o
happy and well-loved child.
525
oo:34:15,854 --> oo:34:19,o8o
And it is plain from dr woodhamts
evidence, and the evidence
526
oo:34:19,1o4 --> oo:34:22,27o
given by mr and mrs Lloyd,
that marniets parents have been
527
oo:34:22,294 --> oo:34:25,88o
doughty defenders of their
daughterts best interests
528
oo:34:25,9o4 --> oo:34:28,774
over many years,
to her undoubted benefit.
529
oo:34:3o,334 --> oo:34:32,67o
The position adopted by mrs Lloyd
53o
oo:34:32,694 --> oo:34:35,31o
before the court is
eminently reasonable
531
oo:34:35,334 --> oo:34:37,264
and wholly understandable.
532
oo:34:38,694 --> oo:34:43,27o
It represents a continuation
of the love and dedication
533
oo:34:43,294 --> oo:34:46,854
that she and her family have
shown to marnie throughout her life.
534
oo:34:48,824 --> oo:34:53,824
This is a case of huge complication
and immense difficulty.
535
oo:34:55,o54 --> oo:34:57,96o
I tm going to break my thinking
into four areas.
536
oo:34:57,984 --> oo:35:o1,o54
He breathes raggedly
so we begin with the evidence...
537
oo:35:15,184 --> oo:35:17,721
It's a panic attack. It'll pass.
538
oo:35:17,745 --> oo:35:2o,52o
Gaspl ng: It's just a panic attack.
It'll pass.
539
oo:35:2o,544 --> oo:35:21,654
I've had them before.
54o
oo:35:23,544 --> oo:35:25,o8o
Is he all right? It's all right.
541
oo:35:25,1o4 --> oo:35:28,11o
He's just having a panic attack.
He's had them before. Thank you.
542
oo:35:28,134 --> oo:35:3o,16o
Andrew sobs
543
oo:35:3o,184 --> oo:35:33,68o
all right. Deep breaths, come on.
544
oo:35:33,7o4 --> oo:35:35,99o
You're ok. It's all right.
545
oo:35:36,o14 --> oo:35:38,39o
And so, for all those reasons,
546
oo:35:38,414 --> oo:35:41,849
I will make the declaration
sought by the hospital...
547
oo:35:41,873 --> oo:35:44,o59
Niccl gasps, sobs
548
oo:35:44,o83 --> oo:35:46,969
that the continuation
of life-sustaining treatment
549
oo:35:46,993 --> oo:35:5o,779
is not in marniets best interests.
55o
oo:35:5o,8o3 --> oo:35:54,683
Niccl sobs.
551
oo:36:oo,8o3 --> oo:36:o3,193
I ndistl nct chatter
552
oo:36:o4,713 --> oo:36:o7,45o
we'll sort it with Derek and talk
about a potential appeal. Derek?
553
oo:36:o7,474 --> oo:36:o9,529
Yes, absolutely.
554
oo:36:o9,553 --> oo:36:11,729
Look, itts hard now, I know, but...
555
oo:36:11,753 --> oo:36:15,o83
I ndistl nct chatter.
556
oo:36:46,163 --> oo:36:47,913
Can we go? Let's just go.
557
oo:37:13,6o4 --> oo:37:15,243
He exhales
558
oo:37:2o,193 --> oo:37:22,633
doorbell
559
oo:37:26,8o3 --> oo:37:28,323
no, I'll get it.
56o
oo:37:32,883 --> oo:37:35,419
Hello. Hi, Tom.
561
oo:37:35,443 --> oo:37:37,o43
Is, um...?
562
oo:37:4o,263 --> oo:37:42,829
Hello. Hi.
563
oo:37:42,853 --> oo:37:45,799
I was just... Writing to you.
564
oo:37:45,823 --> oo:37:47,o13
Saying what?
565
oo:37:48,293 --> oo:37:5o,269
Sh... shall I leave?
566
oo:37:5o,293 --> oo:37:53,189
Wel no. We'll just...
We'll go for a walk.
567
oo:37:53,213 --> oo:37:54,853
I always like a walk.
568
oo:38:o1,o13 --> oo:38:o3,119
All right? Yeah.
569
oo:38:o3,143 --> oo:38:o4,423
Ok.
57o
oo:38:o9,733 --> oo:38:11,624
They want me to appeal.
571
oo:38:13,o63 --> oo:38:14,959
Of course they do.
572
oo:38:14,983 --> oo:38:17,319
I shouldn't have told them
about your drinking.
573
oo:38:17,343 --> oo:38:2o,48o
I'm ashamed that I did that.
I should... you needed to win.
574
oo:38:2o,5o4 --> oo:38:22,829
You-you were...
575
oo:38:22,853 --> oo:38:26,o93
You are an excellent dad.
576
oo:38:28,783 --> oo:38:31,799
I'm not saying you're right,
and I'm not...
577
oo:38:31,823 --> oo:38:33,213
But I'm...
578
oo:38:35,453 --> oo:38:36,983
But I'm-I'm stopping it.
579
oo:38:42,543 --> oo:38:44,263
You're sure?
58o
oo:39:38,653 --> oo:39:4o,183
Morning!
581
oo:39:42,343 --> oo:39:44,679
This is an unexpected bounty.
582
oo:39:44,7o3 --> oo:39:47,559
Yeah, wel they're most
ones you've sold us.
583
oo:39:47,583 --> oo:39:49,629
Whatts brought this on?
584
oo:39:49,653 --> oo:39:53,o63
Um, wel you won't be seeing us
again for a while.
585
oo:39:54,583 --> oo:39:56,813
Shets a smasher, your marnie.
586
oo:4o:21,o63 --> oo:4o:22,943
I don't want her to die here.
587
oo:4o:26,624 --> oo:4o:28,559
Um...
588
oo:4o:28,583 --> oo:4o:32,839
I'm afraid, as I understand it,
she has to.
589
oo:4o:32,863 --> oo:4o:34,789
Oh.
59o
oo:4o:34,813 --> oo:4o:38,199
I, um... I asked the same thing,
591
oo:4o:38,223 --> oo:4o:4o,679
back at the beginning, I asked
whether we could, you know,
592
oo:4o:4o,7o3 --> oo:4o:43,624
get her home, and I was told that
she'd die in the ambulance.
593
oo:4o:45,o63 --> oo:4o:46,919
Right.
594
oo:4o:46,943 --> oo:4o:52,o69
What they have said is once they've
turned off all the machines and,
595
oo:4o:52,o93 --> oo:4o:55,279
you know, let her... Go
596
oo:4o:55,3o3 --> oo:4o:57,429
um
597
oo:4o:57,453 --> oo:4o:59,919
they can put
her in an ambulance for us
598
oo:4o:59,943 --> oo:41:o2,783
and we can get her home then
and put her to bed.
599
oo:41:o6,o63 --> oo:41:o8,7o9
She'd be, er...
6oo
oo:41:o8,733 --> oo:41:1o,399
She'd be dead.
6o1
oo:41:1o,423 --> oo:41:17,583
Or, um, well, we could explore
the, um... The transplant option.
6o2
oo:41:19,583 --> oo:41:21,o93
Right.
6o3
oo:41:23,o93 --> oo:41:25,12o
What do you think?
6o4
oo:41:25,144 --> oo:41:28,525
I decided I 'd leave that
question to you.
6o5
oo:41:29,915 --> oo:41:31,o35
Oh.
6o6
oo:41:32,195 --> oo:41:36,4o1
Wel thank you for researching it
6o7
oo:41:36,425 --> oo:41:39,7o5
but... I want us to decide together.
6o8
oo:41:41,476 --> oo:41:42,985
Yeah. Um...
6o9
oo:41:45,395 --> oo:41:47,322
I mean, I genuinely...
61o
oo:41:47,346 --> oo:41:48,985
I'm not sure on this. Um...
611
oo:41:52,755 --> oo:41:56,5o1
I think marnie would quite like to
612
oo:41:56,525 --> oo:41:58,755
be back in her own bed,
613
oo:41:59,955 --> oo:42:o1,425
and, um,
614
oo:42:o3,555 --> oo:42:o6,861
and I think marnie would quite
like to be useful, you know,
615
oo:42:o6,885 --> oo:42:o8,555
to other people.
616
oo:42:o9,755 --> oo:42:12,5o1
Katie?
617
oo:42:12,525 --> oo:42:13,861
Me?
618
oo:42:13,885 --> oo:42:15,425
Yes, please.
619
oo:42:17,995 --> oo:42:19,555
Um...
62o
oo:42:21,596 --> oo:42:22,915
I think...
621
oo:42:27,115 --> oo:42:28,915
I think transplant.
622
oo:42:32,395 --> oo:42:35,275
Could they do it quick?
They could make that happen, yeah.
623
oo:42:41,785 --> oo:42:43,885
Wel let's make it happen.
624
oo:43:26,425 --> oo:43:27,865
Will we hear it?
625
oo:43:28,915 --> oo:43:31,971
Will we hear it when she dies?
626
oo:43:31,995 --> oo:43:33,6o6
There might be some breathing.
627
oo:43:35,245 --> oo:43:37,582
But will it sound like
she's in pain?
628
oo:43:37,6o6 --> oo:43:39,o41
Thatts unlikely.
629
oo:43:39,o65 --> oo:43:42,371
Chances are shetll just pass.
63o
oo:43:42,395 --> oo:43:46,245
Can we call it dying? Not letting
go or passing on, just
631
oo:43:48,115 --> oo:43:49,611
just dying.
632
oo:43:49,635 --> oo:43:51,332
With the morphine shets on,
633
oo:43:51,356 --> oo:43:53,325
I dontt believe shetll
feel any pain.
634
oo:43:58,395 --> oo:44:oo,555
Have you got anything you want
to say to her?
635
oo:44:o5,325 --> oo:44:o8,o75
I think she knows how I feel.
636
oo:44:1o,5o5 --> oo:44:12,325
I love you, marnie.
637
oo:44:13,995 --> oo:44:16,531
I love you, too.
638
oo:44:16,555 --> oo:44:17,995
I love you so much.
639
oo:44:19,685 --> oo:44:21,761
I've got something I want to say.
64o
oo:44:21,785 --> oo:44:22,835
Ok.
641
oo:44:31,356 --> oo:44:35,195
Katl e whispers.
642
oo:44:54,o45 --> oo:44:55,356
Are you ready?
643
oo:44:57,195 --> oo:44:59,o21
Are the transplant team ready?
644
oo:44:59,o45 --> oo:45:oo,251
Yes.
645
oo:45:oo,275 --> oo:45:o3,371
Um, so, um... What will happen?
646
oo:45:o3,395 --> oo:45:o5,452
Once wetve taken out
the breathing tube,
647
oo:45:o5,476 --> oo:45:o8,611
wetll let her breathe on her own.
She may take a few breaths.
648
oo:45:o8,635 --> oo:45:1o,555
You will have a little
time to hold her.
649
oo:45:11,555 --> oo:45:16,661
Then her heart will slow
and then it will stop.
65o
oo:45:16,685 --> oo:45:2o,o75
When that happens, we need to get
her next door, straight away.
651
oo:45:28,115 --> oo:45:3o,o91
Ok.
652
oo:45:3o,115 --> oo:45:31,865
Then I - I think we're ready.
653
oo:45:36,755 --> oo:45:38,195
Ok.
654
oo:45:52,995 --> oo:45:57,435
Soft beepl ng.
655
oo:46:o6,115 --> oo:46:o9,o45
Snl ffll ng.
656
oo:46:29,685 --> oo:46:31,345
There we go.
657
oo:46:33,o95 --> oo:46:34,935
There we go, lamb.
658
oo:46:43,855 --> oo:46:46,761
Goodnight. Sleep tight.
659
oo:46:46,785 --> oo:46:49,o15
I love you. I love you. I love you.
66o
oo:46:53,6o5 --> oo:46:56,121
Was that the wrong thing to say?
661
oo:46:56,145 --> oo:46:58,215
No.
662
oo:48:14,975 --> oo:48:16,615
Lighter lgnites.
663
oo:48:23,5o6 --> oo:48:25,175
Well, I 'll, um...
664
oo:48:26,345 --> oo:48:27,975
Get in the Van.
665
oo:48:3o,145 --> oo:48:33,7o5
I don't know where we're going
but we're going there together.
666
oo:48:35,585 --> oo:48:38,761
Right? I agree with her.
667
oo:48:38,785 --> oo:48:4o,425
Ok. Thanks.
668
oo:49:o6,455 --> oo:49:o9,175
I'm going to miss her... So much.
669
oo:49:11,975 --> oo:49:13,895
You know I will too, right?
67o
oo:49:16,535 --> oo:49:18,815
You even thinking you need
to say that just
671
oo:49:2o,3o5 --> oo:49:22,225
makes me feel like such
an arsehole.
672
oo:49:24,o25 --> oo:49:27,2o1
We made her happy and,
673
oo:49:27,225 --> oo:49:28,975
and that's...
674
oo:49:32,335 --> oo:49:35,3o5
Wel she made us happy, too.
She really did.
675
oo:49:46,175 --> oo:49:48,175
Rear door opens.
676
oo:49:53,535 --> oo:49:55,256
So, where to?
677
oo:49:57,256 --> oo:49:59,oo1
I could be hungry.
678
oo:49:59,o25 --> oo:5o:o1,951
You could? Mm.
Wel that's shocking.
679
oo:5o:o1,975 --> oo:5o:o4,761
That's a great idea. Um
68o
oo:5o:o4,785 --> oo:5o:o7,362
the Italian place by the library?
681
oo:5o:o7,386 --> oo:5o:o8,921
Yeah. Good.
682
oo:5o:o8,945 --> oo:5o:1o,841
Music? You want some music?
683
oo:5o:1o,865 --> oo:5o:13,121
Oh. I, er...
684
oo:5o:13,145 --> oo:5o:15,665
Your dongle, it's, uh... It's busted.
685
oo:5o:17,256 --> oo:5o:19,oo1
You broke my dongle?
686
oo:5o:19,o25 --> oo:5o:22,511
Yeah. Yeah, I snapped it.
I snapped it in anger.
687
oo:5o:22,535 --> oo:5o:24,362
Well, shall I sing something, then?
688
oo:5o:24,386 --> oo:5o:25,665
Katl e chuckles
689
oo:5o:27,o25 --> oo:5o:3o,121
uh... I've got my music.
69o
oo:5o:3o,145 --> oo:5o:31,665
Oh, she's got her music.
691
oo:5o:33,615 --> oo:5o:36,o25
Let's hear it, then. All right.
692
oo:5o:38,3o5 --> oo:5o:43,945
Music: 2o�2o by rimon
693
oo:5o:49,745 --> oo:5o:51,8o1
? whoa, whoa woo, ooh
694
oo:5o:51,825 --> oo:5o:55,482
? whoa, whoa woo, ooh, ooh
695
oo:5o:55,5o6 --> oo:5o:59,825
? whoa, hmm
696
oo:51:o1,615 --> oo:51:o7,232
? I see your sunlight through
the window, it's magic, uh
697
oo:51:o7,256 --> oo:51:12,591
? my thoughts and body were just
caught by this traffic, uh
698
oo:51:12,615 --> oo:51:18,161
? you watched time pass while
I kept myseff distracted, uh
699
oo:51:18,185 --> oo:51:23,o81
? will you forgive now
that I'm paying attention?
7oo
oo:51:23,1o5 --> oo:51:28,951
? Uh, I see your sunlight through
the window, it's magic, uh
7o1
oo:51:28,975 --> oo:51:34,311
? my thoughts and body were just
caught by this traffic, uh
7o2
oo:51:34,335 --> oo:51:37,232
? where did our time go?
7o3
oo:51:37,256 --> oo:51:4o,2o1
? Encounters beautiful
7o4
oo:51:4o,225 --> oo:51:48,225
? on you are the one
to break the shackles of my burden
7o5
oo:51:48,665 --> oo:51:54,o81
? are the one to show me
glory in the moment
7o6
oo:51:54,1o5 --> oo:51:55,771
? cannot pay you back
7o7
oo:51:55,795 --> oo:51:59,482
? even if I could, I can
on fall on my knees
7o8
oo:51:59,5o6 --> oo:52:o4,521
? show my gratitude for your deeds
7o9
oo:52:o4,545 --> oo:52:o6,591
? I see your sunlight through
71o
oo:52:o6,615 --> oo:52:o9,771
? the window, it's magic, uh
711
oo:52:o9,795 --> oo:52:12,281
? my thoughts and body were just
712
oo:52:12,3o5 --> oo:52:15,411
? caught by this traffic, uh
713
oo:52:15,435 --> oo:52:17,362
? you watched time pass while
714
oo:52:17,386 --> oo:52:18,561
? I kept myseff distracted. ?
715
oo:52:18,585 --> oo:52:18,721
? I kept myseff distracted. ?
716
oo:52:18,745 --> oo:52:2o,545
? I kept myseff distracted. ?
717
oo:52:2o,595 --> oo:52:25,145
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