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Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.
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The demo which you're about to see,
and hopefully participate in...
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The original inventor of video games,
Ralph Baer.
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He was sitting there working for
a defence contractor in the United States
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in Manchester, New Hampshire, in 1968,
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and he was thinking that this technology
would let us bring stories home.
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And so he designed a box
called the Brown Box,
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which was all discrete.
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There were no microprocessors yet.
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And he didn't use
any integrated circuits at all,
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he just built discrete circuits
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that would create simple objects
on a TV screen
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and let a controller move them.
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And he sat there, he got it to work,
he got a lot of broad-ranging patents
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but his company was an aerospace company,
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they didn't know anything at all
about consumer electronics,
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so finally his company
hooked up with Magnavox,
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and they came out with
the Magnavox Odyssey.
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The electronic game of the future.
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Odyssey easily attaches to any brand TV,
black-and-white or colour,
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to create a closed-circuit
electronic playground.
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That was demonstrated in
the San Francisco Bay area in 1972,
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and Nolan Bushnell saw it.
And he was inspired.
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Now Bushnell had been thinking about
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bringing video games to the arcade world,
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and he'd been starting trying to figure out
how to take Computer Space,
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which was done with large computers
on vector monitors,
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and trying to come up
with something that did that.
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And that was all discrete logic too.
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But then he saw this easy, accessible game
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and he took the idea and he asked
Al Alcorn to build an implementation of it,
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and that became Atari Pong.
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That put Atari on the map.
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So that got Atari
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to be the leader in the arcade
video game business
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as opposed to
the home video game business,
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which Magnavox was the pioneer in.
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Then they started building
more complicated machines.
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They started with random logic,
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and then they started experimenting
with microprocessors.
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So then that set up a square
that was incomplete.
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There were home Pong-type games.
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There were arcade Pong-like games.
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There were more complicated
arcade video games
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and the place to complete was,
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"How can Atari, and their competitors,
bring the complicated games home?"
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That market problem was the one
that the Atari 2600,
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codenamed Stella, was intended to solve.
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Nolan bought a group of engineers
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called Cyan Engineering.
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They were up in Grass Valley.
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Steve Mayer, Larry Emmons, Ron Milner.
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They were the three engineers,
and Nolan tasked them with
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building a consumer version
of a coin-op game.
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They hired Joe Decuir,
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and the four of them
built a giant bread board.
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It was always gonna be a console,
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we knew it was gonna be programmable
in some fashion.
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But we were under a lot of pressure
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to keep the bill and materials down.
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To make it programmable would have meant
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to have some built-in ROM with a language.
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We would have needed some RAM
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to put the programs
that you were gonna create in.
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That would have made it more expensive.
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And we would've had to put in the cost
of some kind of keyboard controller.
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And we thought it was too big a jump
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to go all the way to a personal computer
the first time.
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Jay Miner and Harold Lee
were the main chip guys,
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and Jay Miner did the whole design.
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So he took that giant bread board,
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and he was gonna push it down
to a single chip.
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He basically produced the TIA chip,
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which was the
Television Interface Adaptor chip,
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which shrunk 150 chips on a circuit board
in an arcade machine
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into one little tiny chip.
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So he had to throw out a bunch of stuff
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that the Grass Valley guys had done,
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so we ended up having to do the software
and of course we complained bitterly.
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"Come on, Jay. I don't wanna write
horizontal syncs every line, just do it!"
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But the things that he threw out
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perfectly set up so that we could do
what we ended up doing.
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From the first crude Tank and Pong games,
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till Pitfall!
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We could have done a game
like Pitfall! graphics in 1976.
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We just didn't know how.
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The machine didn't change
over those six years,
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we did.
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And so, part of that, or most of that,
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was because Jay left off
a whole bunch of stuff.
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People got very creative
within the first two,
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three years of the
lifespan of the VCS.
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And people did absolutely amazing and
staggeringly inventive things with that.
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We were aware of Apple.
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We knew they were going after
the appliance computer market
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with much higher costs,
and much different market.
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You have the Apple II,
which was a really advanced computer.
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It had all kind of capacity for expansion
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that would help it do things for business
and science and office workers.
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Meanwhile, Apple had cultivated a really
strong image as a computer company.
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Then you have the first Atari,
which is very limited,
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and gave them a reputation
as a game company.
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And we went after the console market
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because we were
an entertainment games company.
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And it helped us a lot
that we were thinking in those terms,
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and not in terms of productivity software.
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We re-wrestled that problem later
with our next machine.
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Atari brings the computer age home.
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- Gotta run, gotta go!
- Late again, Dad?
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With an Atari home computer...
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Have a nice day at the office!
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...you can easily work at home
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or open your home
to a world of possibilities.
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In fact, the hardest part about
owning an Atari home computer
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isn't how to use it,
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but who gets to use it.
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Market's closed, Dad. Mind if I do my work?
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Hey, nope, no problem.
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Atari Home Computers.
We've brought the computer age home.
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Jay Miner had become, sort of,
head of the chip group.
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Jay was the heart and soul behind
the Atari 400 and the Atari 800.
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When I was programming the 800 in 1980,
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I was stunned by just how clever
the design was.
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The Atari 400 and 800
personal computer systems
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have outstanding graphics capabilities.
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These features are made possible
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by three unique,
large-scale integrated circuit chips.
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Jay had divided into three chips this time,
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cos he couldn't fit it all into one chip.
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So there was a new version of the TIA,
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which we called the Colleen TIA.
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It handled sprites, missiles, balls.
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The ANTIC was the stuff that overflowed,
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that did more of the playfield graphics.
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And the ANTIC had something
that we invented,
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called the display list.
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So you give it a list of instructions,
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very simple ones,
telling it what to do on each line,
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so we didn't have to write kernels
to load the register.
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So this display list would load
those registers for us every line.
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And it controlled the line by itself.
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And the third chip was the POKEY chip,
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which stands for
"Potentiometers and Keyboard."
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So it did the joysticks, the pots,
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the keyboard, and the other peripherals.
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I think the most important thing
about those early chipsets,
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were that they recognised that
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computers could be about
a lot more than just crunching numbers.
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That computers could be fun.
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Computers could be engaging,
exciting, creative.
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And that it required
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a degree of technical
ingenuity and creativity
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that people simply weren't putting into
computers at that point,
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certainly not into computing technology.
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I mean, you look at
something like the Apple II.
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It was a good computer.
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You know, it would run
spreadsheets and so on,
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and even some primitive games.
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But there was a lot missing.
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And a lot of the stuff that was missing
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was in the Atari 400 and 800 chipsets.
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At Atari,
Warner Communications bought them,
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they installed Ray Kassar as president.
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Best is yet to come, we have
terrific games coming out next year.
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We have E.T. for example,
a wonderful love story cartridge.
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I think there's great interest
in home computers,
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which Atari makes, and video games...
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They were essentially owned by
a entertainment media conglomerate,
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and Ray Kassar came from that culture.
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Now you have to realise
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that Nolan Bushnell
and Joe Keenan and Al Alcorn,
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they were basically goof-offs.
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Not quite hippies,
but you'd call them relaxed. Casual.
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They smoked dope.
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We went up to the Nolan suite
where we smoked a few joints.
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And so that was the Atari that we knew.
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Ray comes in with his,
you know, $3,000 suits.
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He had a chauffeured limousine
that drove him up to the city.
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Ray Kassar was not a technical guy.
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He came from the fabric business.
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And he was a vice-president
at something called Burlington Industries,
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that makes towels and socks.
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He thought that you sold computers
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to women in designer colours.
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He gave a lecture to us
in Atari Engineering
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in late January, early February of 1979.
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And he told us this.
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Most of the women who worked at Atari
in engineering left within a month.
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They really just did not understand
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how to treat developers
and how to do engineering.
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00:14:06,718 --> 00:14:10,038
He said, you know, "I've worked
with towel designers at Burlington."
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And they make those designs on the
towels, the fancy patterns and stuff.
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And he said,
"They consider themselves artists.
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"They think it's their art on the towel
that sells the towel."
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00:14:20,718 --> 00:14:22,398
And he said,
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00:14:22,478 --> 00:14:25,598
"I had to tell them,
'You guys are a dime a dozen.
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00:14:25,678 --> 00:14:28,638
"'I could hire any idiot to design towels.
199
00:14:28,718 --> 00:14:30,718
"'And I wouldn't have
to pay them anything.'"
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00:14:30,798 --> 00:14:33,758
And so he basically said
we were a dime a dozen,
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he didn't need to pay us anything cos
he could hire anybody to do what we do.
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It was just like towel design.
203
00:14:39,558 --> 00:14:42,518
And Jay Miner said,
"I don't like where this is going."
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00:14:42,598 --> 00:14:45,958
Jay Miner, he wanted to continue the
work he'd done on the Atari 800.
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00:14:46,038 --> 00:14:48,343
So, it was clear that they
weren't gonna be able to make
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00:14:48,368 --> 00:14:49,702
any new technology at Atari.
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00:14:49,758 --> 00:14:54,998
So he just left, and actually went to work
for a company making pacemaker chips.
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00:14:56,158 --> 00:14:58,518
Zymos was a chip company,
they made chips.
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00:14:58,758 --> 00:15:01,238
In those days you do RAM chips,
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00:15:01,318 --> 00:15:05,038
you do peripheral chips, any kind of chip
that the company can do.
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00:15:09,838 --> 00:15:12,958
While I was at Activision,
after I finished Kaboom!,
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00:15:13,038 --> 00:15:15,478
I really wanted to do a new game system.
213
00:15:15,598 --> 00:15:18,678
Atari still had not come out with the 5200,
214
00:15:18,838 --> 00:15:21,878
they were still selling 400s and 800s.
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00:15:21,958 --> 00:15:24,998
And Doug Neubauer
had called me up one day,
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00:15:25,318 --> 00:15:26,638
and we were talking about it.
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00:15:26,718 --> 00:15:30,198
I said, "Look, I wanna leave Activision,
I really wanna do a new game system."
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00:15:30,278 --> 00:15:33,198
We both knew Jay Miner, we talked about it.
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00:15:33,518 --> 00:15:35,758
And he said, "Sure," he'd like to do it.
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00:15:35,838 --> 00:15:38,878
Bert Braddock, the president of Zymos,
he liked the idea.
221
00:15:39,278 --> 00:15:42,198
So we put together, like,
a little business plan,
222
00:15:42,318 --> 00:15:44,718
and he presented it to his investor,
223
00:15:44,798 --> 00:15:47,439
who was a man named O.W. Rollins.
224
00:15:47,759 --> 00:15:50,279
He had put a lot of money into Zymos,
225
00:15:50,359 --> 00:15:52,679
so Rollins said he'll invest money.
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00:15:53,119 --> 00:15:55,679
It was just purely a game machine
with joysticks,
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and a simple console, nothing else.
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00:15:58,519 --> 00:15:59,999
I guess at the time,
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00:16:00,079 --> 00:16:03,159
with Atari doing so well
and everybody was talking about games,
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00:16:03,239 --> 00:16:05,319
they really wanted to invest
in a game console.
231
00:16:05,399 --> 00:16:08,119
It looked like it was gonna do very well
for them at that time.
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00:16:08,199 --> 00:16:10,199
June of 1982,
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00:16:10,279 --> 00:16:15,039
Rollins hired an executive search team
to find a president.
234
00:16:15,119 --> 00:16:17,079
And they found Dave Morse.
235
00:16:17,159 --> 00:16:18,679
Tonka Toys in Minnesota.
236
00:16:19,199 --> 00:16:22,439
And so Dave and I worked on
the business plan over the summer,
237
00:16:22,519 --> 00:16:24,879
and they basically
approved it in September.
238
00:16:24,959 --> 00:16:26,359
So, October of '82,
239
00:16:26,799 --> 00:16:29,839
Rollins agreed to spend $3 million
240
00:16:29,919 --> 00:16:32,199
to fund, at that time, Hi-Toro.
241
00:16:32,759 --> 00:16:34,639
This is, of course, the season to be jolly,
242
00:16:34,719 --> 00:16:36,919
but the folks at Mattel
and Warner Communications
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00:16:36,999 --> 00:16:38,319
and a lot of other companies
244
00:16:38,399 --> 00:16:40,719
are having trouble
getting into the holiday spirit.
245
00:16:40,799 --> 00:16:43,959
Sales down dramatically
for home video game cartridges
246
00:16:44,039 --> 00:16:45,839
and investors are bailing out.
247
00:16:45,919 --> 00:16:47,279
Scott Barrett reports.
248
00:16:47,879 --> 00:16:50,759
Warner Communications down
one and a quarter points today,
249
00:16:50,839 --> 00:16:52,679
16 and three quarter points yesterday.
250
00:16:52,839 --> 00:16:55,599
Mattel down
seven and a quarter points today.
251
00:16:55,679 --> 00:16:59,039
Both companies have one important
Christmas season product in common:
252
00:16:59,719 --> 00:17:01,559
home video game cartridges.
253
00:17:01,639 --> 00:17:05,719
What happened with Atari was that
they got really big really quickly,
254
00:17:05,799 --> 00:17:08,548
and then they forgot that
technology was gonna keep going,
255
00:17:08,573 --> 00:17:10,063
it was going to get better.
256
00:17:10,319 --> 00:17:15,559
They started to think of their Atari
video computer system, the 2600,
257
00:17:15,959 --> 00:17:17,559
kind of like a television,
258
00:17:17,639 --> 00:17:20,479
thinking there's gonna be one of these in
every home, it's like an appliance.
259
00:17:21,039 --> 00:17:25,119
And Atari, nevertheless, felt like they
could ride that horse for years and years.
260
00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:28,439
Naturally, it was going to hit a wall
very, very quickly,
261
00:17:28,519 --> 00:17:31,799
and they overbuilt the company
around that assumption.
262
00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:35,679
And they didn't really plan that
effectively for a next generation.
263
00:17:35,759 --> 00:17:36,972
And so it went up really fast,
264
00:17:36,997 --> 00:17:39,463
and then it turned around and
it came down really fast.
265
00:17:39,519 --> 00:17:43,519
Just like the laws of physics,
what goes up must come down.
266
00:17:43,599 --> 00:17:48,559
And then they made a great big
implosion when they crashed,
267
00:17:48,639 --> 00:17:51,719
and they kind of sucked the entire
industry down with them for a while.
268
00:17:51,799 --> 00:17:54,046
All the game companies were losing money.
269
00:17:54,071 --> 00:17:56,103
Mattel, 20th Century Fox, Hasbro.
270
00:17:56,159 --> 00:17:58,879
All of those others companies,
Imagic, they all went broke.
271
00:17:59,599 --> 00:18:02,439
And retailers and distributors
refused to carry anything.
272
00:18:02,519 --> 00:18:05,359
We were telling our sales
people at Electronic Arts
273
00:18:05,439 --> 00:18:08,359
to go find all the guys
who are carrying Atari,
274
00:18:08,439 --> 00:18:10,039
and they came back and said,
"They're all gone.
275
00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:11,719
"They all went out of
business or shut down.
276
00:18:11,799 --> 00:18:14,199
"They don't want to do anything
with any more video games."
277
00:18:14,279 --> 00:18:18,799
It was very difficult in the early '80s
trying to rebuild all of that distribution.
278
00:18:18,879 --> 00:18:23,719
Nobody, no single American
toy store, distributor,
279
00:18:23,799 --> 00:18:25,999
nobody wanted to hear the word
"video game."
280
00:18:26,079 --> 00:18:29,239
They'd all lost their shirt,
and they would never touch them again.
281
00:18:29,319 --> 00:18:31,079
There is one encouraging note
for the industry,
282
00:18:31,159 --> 00:18:33,159
while software sales may be slumping,
283
00:18:33,239 --> 00:18:35,919
and of course "software" is a
computer buff term for that
284
00:18:35,999 --> 00:18:39,079
video cartridge that contains
the game program,
285
00:18:39,159 --> 00:18:41,359
hardware sales are still soaring.
286
00:18:41,439 --> 00:18:44,439
Most hardware can double
as a personal computer,
287
00:18:44,519 --> 00:18:47,479
leading most optimistic industry experts
to conclude
288
00:18:47,559 --> 00:18:50,279
that video game players
may be tired of playing
289
00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:53,439
and are now getting down to
the serious business of computing.
290
00:18:53,679 --> 00:18:57,639
And so, the only market available at
that time really was the computer.
291
00:18:57,759 --> 00:19:01,639
If you started in 1983 with an idea
for a new company,
292
00:19:01,719 --> 00:19:03,199
you could not do a video game.
293
00:19:03,279 --> 00:19:05,879
There was just absolutely no possibility,
294
00:19:05,959 --> 00:19:09,079
because there wasn't a distributor
or retailer that would talk to you.
295
00:19:09,159 --> 00:19:12,599
And the Consumer Electronic Shows,
they disappeared.
296
00:19:12,679 --> 00:19:15,079
If you went to the show
in, say, June of '83,
297
00:19:15,159 --> 00:19:17,439
there were almost no video games
there at all.
298
00:19:17,839 --> 00:19:21,879
Jay Miner had already begun a project
299
00:19:22,199 --> 00:19:25,839
to design a low-cost super computer
300
00:19:25,919 --> 00:19:28,639
based on the Motorola 68000 chip,
301
00:19:28,719 --> 00:19:33,479
which at that time, was only being used
in high-end workstations.
302
00:19:33,559 --> 00:19:35,279
Dave learned about it
303
00:19:35,439 --> 00:19:41,119
and the two of them decided
to go back to the original backer
304
00:19:41,199 --> 00:19:46,399
and propose that they make a
few changes to the strategy,
305
00:19:46,479 --> 00:19:50,519
but basically fund the continuation
of this project.
306
00:19:50,999 --> 00:19:56,679
The changes were not only to target
the low-end business market,
307
00:19:56,759 --> 00:19:58,679
which is what Jay had in mind,
308
00:19:58,959 --> 00:20:02,759
but also to target the
home computer market,
309
00:20:02,839 --> 00:20:05,719
including the ability to do
dazzling video games.
310
00:20:06,879 --> 00:20:09,679
So that was the element that Dave added.
311
00:20:09,759 --> 00:20:13,319
Dave Morse was what I consider to be
a marketing genius,
312
00:20:14,559 --> 00:20:18,999
well under-considered in terms of, I think,
an awful lot of people.
313
00:20:19,079 --> 00:20:20,559
Very creative.
314
00:20:20,639 --> 00:20:22,289
And his directive to us
315
00:20:22,314 --> 00:20:26,903
was he wanted to be able to
animate cartoons in real time.
316
00:20:26,959 --> 00:20:30,279
So we again listed,
"What do we need for a game?
317
00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:31,799
"What do we need for productivity?
318
00:20:31,879 --> 00:20:34,280
"Let's make sure we can cover
both of them in the same set."
319
00:20:34,360 --> 00:20:39,920
At that point, the only real game in town
in the low-end business market
320
00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:42,240
and also high-end home market
321
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:43,760
was the Apple IIe.
322
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,720
They had owned that market
for a long, long time,
323
00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:50,320
and Dave felt it wasn't a
terribly exciting computer.
324
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:52,320
There was also all the
Commodore computers.
325
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:53,840
And Commodore was very big at the time.
326
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:57,400
They had sold millions and millions
of these small home computers.
327
00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:10,280
Ghostbusters!
328
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,480
So the idea of taking that idea
and really extending it
329
00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:17,760
and giving those a lot more
graphic capability, a lot more power,
330
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,720
you know, the multitasking
as well as really good sound,
331
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:24,440
it was just the next step in the evolution
of personal computing.
332
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:31,400
I have a notebook from Atari
which has a preview of the Amiga.
333
00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:35,440
I wrote that preview in June of 1979.
334
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:39,720
And so when Jay called me up
in the fall of 1982 and said,
335
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:43,480
"Let's come up with a new machine,"
I was ready to go.
336
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:48,440
So I went and met Jay in October of 1982,
and we started planning out this system.
337
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:51,960
So I worked as a consultant for Jay Miner.
338
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,840
I was badge number three at
what was then called Hi-Toro.
339
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:59,760
While I was working with Jay finishing
up the clock chip at Apple,
340
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:02,440
and of course we'd go out for lunch
every now and then,
341
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:05,600
I was in the Macintosh lab.
342
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,800
And my lab bench was very near
Dan Kottke's,
343
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,840
another early engineer
on the Macintosh project,
344
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:16,280
and he was adding a test connector
to the Mac motherboard.
345
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:20,760
And Steve Jobs comes over and says,
"What's that?"
346
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:22,580
There are various stories
about Steve Jobs
347
00:22:22,605 --> 00:22:24,264
walking up to an
engineer and going,
348
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:25,440
"What are you doing?"
349
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:28,720
And Dan Kottke says,
"I'm putting in a test connector."
350
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,560
And Steve goes, "What test connector?
What do you want to test?" And he says,
351
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:36,360
"Well, various things, like an option,
for instance, for a colour adaptor."
352
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:38,720
And then Steve goes on this rant about how
353
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:42,640
the Mac is a black-and-white
high-resolution monochrome computer,
354
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,320
"It'll never have colour,
I don't want you playing with colour.
355
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,520
"Please remove that test connector."
356
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,960
Right? And Steve rants about this
and goes tromping off.
357
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:55,280
So I'm saying, "OK, Steve doesn't want
to do a colour Macintosh."
358
00:22:55,360 --> 00:22:58,960
At the next lunch I went
to with Jay, Jay says,
359
00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:02,476
"I've got some investors who
want to start a company
360
00:23:02,501 --> 00:23:04,704
to do a colour game machine."
361
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:08,240
And I'm going, "Hey, I've always been
interested in colour,
362
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:10,080
"and Steve says he's not interested in it."
363
00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:15,280
And so, I jumped at the opportunity
to do something new and creative.
364
00:23:15,360 --> 00:23:16,958
I worked in the early stages,
365
00:23:16,983 --> 00:23:20,344
so I worked with Jay and Ron
and very few other people.
366
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:23,760
And we spent an awful lot of our time
on the whiteboard...
367
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,320
Saying, "No, no. That's all wrong,"
and erasing it all.
368
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,440
We went through several weeks there,
369
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:33,160
of just throwing ideas around
of what we wanted to do.
370
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,770
And then we would go to
the giant drawing table
371
00:23:35,795 --> 00:23:37,744
and start drawing all this stuff
372
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,120
because we didn't have
good computer-aided design tools yet.
373
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:45,120
We were still designing on vellums
374
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,680
and we'd get these big tables
with fluorescent lights under them
375
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:50,760
and do it manually by hand.
376
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:55,280
It was just the three of
us for several months
377
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,153
until we had all the design,
378
00:23:58,178 --> 00:24:02,224
except for maybe three
features, finalised.
379
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:05,480
At that time Amiga was looking to expand.
380
00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:08,120
I go down there,
I get out at the Sunnyvale train station,
381
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:10,360
there's this big old guy with a beard,
382
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,240
in a Lincoln,
and this little dog sitting at one window.
383
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:17,480
And I thought, "This is
an interesting guy."
384
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,880
And then I guessed correctly
385
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,800
when he asked me the difference
between a flip-flop and a latch.
386
00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,920
And we hit it off.
So I said, "I gotta work for this guy."
387
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:29,662
They invited me to
come out and interview
388
00:24:29,687 --> 00:24:32,664
and I blew off their invitation twice.
389
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:34,400
Two times!
390
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:36,520
I said, "OK, I'll think about it."
391
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:40,280
And then I decided I wasn't going to do it
because it was just too wacky.
392
00:24:40,360 --> 00:24:43,040
It's a bunch of people out in California,
393
00:24:43,120 --> 00:24:45,440
they're going to go
and create a new computer,
394
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,400
and, sure, this is a great idea.
395
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:51,680
And my family, especially my mom, they
were warning me, "Out in California..."
396
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:54,204
"California is the land
of fruit and nuts,"
397
00:24:54,229 --> 00:24:56,784
is what they all used
to say to me back then.
398
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,000
And though I blew them off twice,
they kept calling.
399
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:01,920
Thankfully, they called the third time. And
the third time, I accepted and went out.
400
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:03,640
I actually missed my first interview.
401
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:09,200
What I had heard about it was that there
was a small start-up company and so...
402
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:11,640
Scheduled an interview,
and it was on a Friday night.
403
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:16,360
And HP typically has these things called
beer busts, at that time, on Friday night.
404
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,880
And about 8:30,
after quite a bit of wine at the beer bust,
405
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:21,680
I suddenly remembered I was supposed to
406
00:25:21,761 --> 00:25:24,881
go to an interview at Amiga
with Bob Pariseau.
407
00:25:24,961 --> 00:25:28,001
And so I called him up in a panic,
408
00:25:28,081 --> 00:25:31,081
and he said, "No, no problem.
Just come in next week."
409
00:25:31,161 --> 00:25:32,281
And so I went in,
410
00:25:32,441 --> 00:25:36,761
they had the whiteboard with the 68000
as one of the key elements,
411
00:25:36,841 --> 00:25:40,361
and then they showed the chips
and the basic architecture
412
00:25:40,441 --> 00:25:42,561
and fairly quickly made up my mind
413
00:25:42,641 --> 00:25:45,761
that I wanted to leave HP
and join this company.
414
00:25:45,841 --> 00:25:51,241
My wife got a call from a head-hunter
and then from Bob Pariseau,
415
00:25:51,321 --> 00:25:54,361
who was the head of software at Amiga.
416
00:25:55,001 --> 00:25:59,601
And it's funny because she felt he was
very rude on the telephone,
417
00:25:59,681 --> 00:26:01,841
and said, "Don't call this guy back.
418
00:26:01,921 --> 00:26:04,681
"You don't want to talk to this...
I don't want you working for..."
419
00:26:04,761 --> 00:26:07,681
"For this guy and his company."
420
00:26:08,441 --> 00:26:11,001
But I had a friend who
had interviewed there
421
00:26:11,081 --> 00:26:14,841
for the operating system job,
and he decided it wasn't for him,
422
00:26:14,921 --> 00:26:17,841
but he called me up and he said,
"You really should go talk to these guys
423
00:26:17,921 --> 00:26:21,521
"because they want to create
a whole new computer system,
424
00:26:21,601 --> 00:26:23,921
"and they want to do a whole
operating system from scratch
425
00:26:24,001 --> 00:26:26,361
"and I was thinking maybe you'd be
interested in that."
426
00:26:26,921 --> 00:26:29,881
So I went down to the interview
and interviewed with Bob Pariseau
427
00:26:30,001 --> 00:26:32,641
and met some of the other
guys there, Dave Morse.
428
00:26:32,961 --> 00:26:36,801
And then they made me an offer the same day
429
00:26:36,881 --> 00:26:38,361
and I couldn't refuse. I accepted it.
430
00:26:38,441 --> 00:26:44,521
I was talking to, what was at that time,
"a talent agent" for technology people.
431
00:26:44,601 --> 00:26:47,921
And he introduced me
to this company, Amiga,
432
00:26:48,001 --> 00:26:51,001
that was doing something interesting.
433
00:26:51,081 --> 00:26:54,441
I went down, I took a look.
I saw the whiteboard.
434
00:26:54,521 --> 00:26:58,401
I just knew, without question,
that this is what I wanted to work on.
435
00:26:58,481 --> 00:27:00,641
Of course,
I completely screwed up the interview.
436
00:27:00,721 --> 00:27:03,841
And Morse threw me out and said,
"Go away, don't bother me, little boy."
437
00:27:03,921 --> 00:27:08,321
But I was being massively,
totally arrogant. It was awful.
438
00:27:08,401 --> 00:27:10,161
The next morning, I call back.
439
00:27:10,241 --> 00:27:14,161
And I apologised and I tell Dave Morse
how sorry I am that I behaved that way,
440
00:27:14,241 --> 00:27:17,161
and I really, really want to just
work on that machine.
441
00:27:17,241 --> 00:27:18,841
And he says, "OK, fine. Come in."
442
00:27:18,921 --> 00:27:22,161
And I came in
and he handed me off to Tom Cahill
443
00:27:22,241 --> 00:27:24,321
who was running the lab at the time.
444
00:27:24,401 --> 00:27:28,401
And they put me to work
sweeping the place clean,
445
00:27:28,481 --> 00:27:32,001
picking up parts, putting them back
in the bins where they belong.
446
00:27:32,081 --> 00:27:35,161
And so I started at Amiga as a janitor.
447
00:27:35,241 --> 00:27:38,041
And loved it, and had to be there
and it was amazing.
448
00:27:47,641 --> 00:27:50,020
One of the things I saw
during my interview at Amiga
449
00:27:50,045 --> 00:27:51,345
was a little whiteboard.
450
00:27:51,401 --> 00:27:55,001
I think a lot of the guys talk about this
that were on the original Amiga team.
451
00:27:55,081 --> 00:27:57,881
And it was a whiteboard that had a
diagram of how the system worked
452
00:27:57,961 --> 00:28:00,081
in terms of its system architecture.
453
00:28:00,161 --> 00:28:04,561
And it was really quite elegant and it was
also a multiprocessing architecture,
454
00:28:04,641 --> 00:28:07,241
where multiple things can be happening
at the same time.
455
00:28:07,321 --> 00:28:08,961
And as soon as I looked at that, I knew
456
00:28:09,041 --> 00:28:12,041
that multitasking was going to be
required to make that work well.
457
00:28:12,121 --> 00:28:15,961
To be able to coordinate all the different
parts of the system at the same time.
458
00:28:16,721 --> 00:28:20,721
The magical, incredible drawing
on that whiteboard
459
00:28:20,801 --> 00:28:23,961
that showed an amazing architecture.
460
00:28:24,041 --> 00:28:25,921
Multiple buses,
461
00:28:26,001 --> 00:28:29,841
ways to get the graphics out of regular
memory and on to video
462
00:28:29,921 --> 00:28:32,441
without stopping the processor.
463
00:28:32,521 --> 00:28:34,841
Real audio? Holy cow.
464
00:28:35,121 --> 00:28:37,081
It had additional features
465
00:28:37,161 --> 00:28:40,121
that were already plotted out
on this whiteboard
466
00:28:40,201 --> 00:28:44,561
that made it clear, in advance,
that Jay Miner and company intended
467
00:28:44,801 --> 00:28:48,001
to create a real computer,
not just a game system.
468
00:28:48,081 --> 00:28:50,561
But they intended to create something
that could have a keyboard
469
00:28:50,641 --> 00:28:52,361
if you wanted it to have a keyboard.
470
00:28:52,801 --> 00:28:57,321
It could have external drive capability
if you wanted to expand it.
471
00:28:57,401 --> 00:29:00,041
Memory expansion
if you wanted to expand the system.
472
00:29:01,321 --> 00:29:05,561
So, the process of creating the Amiga
was one where
473
00:29:05,641 --> 00:29:07,761
we went back and forth between
474
00:29:07,841 --> 00:29:10,001
how much do we want to make it
a game machine,
475
00:29:10,081 --> 00:29:13,481
how much do we want to make it a tool
or a utility like a real computer,
476
00:29:13,561 --> 00:29:16,121
or like a IBM-PC type of thing.
477
00:29:16,561 --> 00:29:18,321
And we tried to balance that
478
00:29:18,401 --> 00:29:20,641
through the whole process
of making the computer.
479
00:29:20,721 --> 00:29:23,801
And it was a difficult balance
to make along the way.
480
00:29:23,881 --> 00:29:27,321
Because those are such different markets
and such different types of usages.
481
00:29:27,921 --> 00:29:32,241
We relied on a lot of the concepts
that had already been developed.
482
00:29:32,321 --> 00:29:36,481
Grand UNIX systems,
grand Sun Microsystems sorts of things,
483
00:29:36,561 --> 00:29:40,801
where they had tackled
giant operating systems
484
00:29:40,881 --> 00:29:42,801
and figured out the right way to do it.
485
00:29:43,241 --> 00:29:47,521
We wanted to do that, too.
We wanted to create that kind of power.
486
00:29:47,601 --> 00:29:50,641
But to pack it in a little box
that was easily accessible,
487
00:29:50,721 --> 00:29:54,321
that was easily affordable by every man.
488
00:29:54,401 --> 00:29:59,241
We wanted to have a machine that was
a magnificent game-playing system
489
00:29:59,321 --> 00:30:03,881
that would run circles around any
other game system that was out there,
490
00:30:03,961 --> 00:30:05,761
and yet cost less than all of them.
491
00:30:06,281 --> 00:30:10,282
We wanted a machine that had
the graphics capabilities
492
00:30:10,362 --> 00:30:13,562
that if you look at what was available
in the marketplace at that time,
493
00:30:13,642 --> 00:30:15,442
a Silicon Graphics machine
or something like that,
494
00:30:15,522 --> 00:30:17,962
you'd pay $20,000-$30,000
495
00:30:18,042 --> 00:30:21,122
for a machine that would have
the kinds of capabilities
496
00:30:21,202 --> 00:30:25,642
that we hoped to be able to launch
to the public at less than $1,000 price.
497
00:30:25,722 --> 00:30:27,442
That was our big dream.
498
00:30:27,522 --> 00:30:32,002
We were all in this together,
we all had kind of the same vision.
499
00:30:32,082 --> 00:30:35,042
It really was more like a mission from God,
500
00:30:35,122 --> 00:30:37,762
that we thought we needed to bring this out
501
00:30:37,842 --> 00:30:40,482
for everyone to be able
to experience and use.
502
00:30:40,682 --> 00:30:42,962
And it had a friendly name, Amiga, that...
503
00:30:43,042 --> 00:30:44,962
Who could not love such a name?
504
00:30:45,882 --> 00:30:49,842
When I joined Amiga,
and saw the diagram on the wall
505
00:30:49,922 --> 00:30:53,362
of the chip architecture
and the system architecture,
506
00:30:54,482 --> 00:30:57,362
one of the things about it is,
to implement that, normally,
507
00:30:57,442 --> 00:31:00,442
would require a lot of
different small chips.
508
00:31:00,522 --> 00:31:02,362
And it would be a very complex system,
509
00:31:02,442 --> 00:31:05,162
and take a lot of power and be very large.
510
00:31:05,762 --> 00:31:09,282
But what was happening at
that time in chip technology
511
00:31:09,362 --> 00:31:11,882
was very large-scale integration, VLSI.
512
00:31:11,962 --> 00:31:14,082
And making custom chips,
513
00:31:14,162 --> 00:31:19,002
and that's something that Jay Miner
had a lot of experience with at Atari,
514
00:31:19,082 --> 00:31:20,762
in creating the Atari products.
515
00:31:20,842 --> 00:31:25,242
So, seeing that architecture and knowing
that those chips were really a possibility,
516
00:31:25,322 --> 00:31:27,562
and that they could be made
at an affordable type of price
517
00:31:27,642 --> 00:31:29,482
that would work in a home computer
518
00:31:29,562 --> 00:31:31,522
was a huge breakthrough.
519
00:31:31,602 --> 00:31:35,602
The chips, Portia, Agnus and Daphne,
520
00:31:35,682 --> 00:31:37,362
which were their original names,
521
00:31:37,442 --> 00:31:39,722
Agnus was the main DMA engine.
522
00:31:39,802 --> 00:31:43,242
It was an address generator, AG,
so that's where we got Agnus.
523
00:31:43,322 --> 00:31:47,042
And it was really the DMA engine
for everything.
524
00:31:47,722 --> 00:31:50,722
Daphne was fed by Agnus,
525
00:31:50,802 --> 00:31:54,409
and was given all the display
stuff to generate the displays,
526
00:31:54,434 --> 00:31:55,946
generate the sprites,
527
00:31:56,002 --> 00:31:58,762
and do some of my stuff.
528
00:31:59,322 --> 00:32:04,322
Portia, the port chip and the audio chip,
was also fed by Agnus.
529
00:32:04,402 --> 00:32:07,882
So Agnus had all this huge amounts
of DMA pointers in it.
530
00:32:07,962 --> 00:32:11,042
And it basically pulled stuff out of memory
531
00:32:11,122 --> 00:32:13,882
and put stuff in memory
and then fed the other two chips
532
00:32:13,962 --> 00:32:18,882
to do other things like the audio,
the floppy disk IO, the display,
533
00:32:18,962 --> 00:32:22,162
and then Agnus also did, internally
though, it did the blitter operation.
534
00:32:22,242 --> 00:32:23,482
So it did the graphics.
535
00:32:23,562 --> 00:32:26,962
And based on that
and how well that was tightly integrated
536
00:32:27,042 --> 00:32:32,122
with the 68000 and Agnus basically
stealing cycles from the 68000...
537
00:32:32,202 --> 00:32:36,362
Cos the 68000 could only use memory
at half the speed of the RAM,
538
00:32:36,442 --> 00:32:38,642
we were able to do all these
things in the background
539
00:32:38,722 --> 00:32:41,522
without really affecting
the 68000's performance.
540
00:32:41,802 --> 00:32:45,722
The way those chips worked is they
all got their little moment in time
541
00:32:45,802 --> 00:32:48,562
to get on the memory bus
to talk to the main CPU
542
00:32:48,642 --> 00:32:51,442
or to talk to each other on that bus.
543
00:32:51,522 --> 00:32:56,042
And there were actually 25
different slices of time in that.
544
00:32:56,122 --> 00:32:58,122
We called it 25 DMA channels.
545
00:32:58,202 --> 00:33:02,162
So organising and orchestrating all
of that was a major accomplishment.
546
00:33:02,282 --> 00:33:05,322
You had audio bits being DMA-ed,
547
00:33:05,402 --> 00:33:07,642
and you had video
bits being DMA-ed,
548
00:33:07,722 --> 00:33:10,762
and you the blitter
moving graphics around,
549
00:33:10,842 --> 00:33:14,082
you had the floppy disk
DMA stuff going on.
550
00:33:14,162 --> 00:33:18,002
In order to effectively get all those
things moving around properly,
551
00:33:18,082 --> 00:33:21,122
all at the same time, you have to
have pre-emptive multitasking.
552
00:33:21,202 --> 00:33:25,002
Because you can't be pulling stuff
to wait for something to do.
553
00:33:25,082 --> 00:33:26,802
You have to be event-driven,
554
00:33:26,882 --> 00:33:29,282
so that when things
need to be restarted
555
00:33:29,362 --> 00:33:32,442
or things are done and you need
to start something else up,
556
00:33:32,522 --> 00:33:34,122
it all has to be pre-emptive.
557
00:33:34,202 --> 00:33:35,722
Yeah, so back then,
558
00:33:35,802 --> 00:33:39,722
most computers, micro-computers,
were single-tasking computers,
559
00:33:39,802 --> 00:33:42,202
you ran one application
at a time.
560
00:33:42,282 --> 00:33:44,882
You did what you wanted, you
shut down that application,
561
00:33:44,962 --> 00:33:46,482
and then you ran something else.
562
00:33:46,562 --> 00:33:48,842
So you could only run
one program at a time.
563
00:33:48,922 --> 00:33:50,842
The idea of a multi-tasking
operating system
564
00:33:50,922 --> 00:33:55,122
is to allow several different processes
to run in parallel at the same time,
565
00:33:55,202 --> 00:33:58,362
and to share the CPU between
the different processes,
566
00:33:58,442 --> 00:34:00,202
and to do that fast enough
567
00:34:00,282 --> 00:34:02,322
that you don't notice that
it's switching between them.
568
00:34:02,402 --> 00:34:07,522
The 68000 chip only had a
few of the features needed
569
00:34:07,602 --> 00:34:10,042
to properly do what a full
570
00:34:10,122 --> 00:34:13,242
multi-tasking operating
system does nowadays.
571
00:34:13,322 --> 00:34:17,122
And so we were only thinking
of doing the best we could
572
00:34:17,202 --> 00:34:20,094
to let the software team take
it beyond what the basic,
573
00:34:20,119 --> 00:34:21,666
simple hardware could do.
574
00:34:21,722 --> 00:34:25,002
Yeah, multi-tasking was
more difficult to implement
575
00:34:25,082 --> 00:34:26,642
on a machine like the Amiga.
576
00:34:26,722 --> 00:34:29,762
That was the early days
of microprocessors.
577
00:34:29,842 --> 00:34:35,642
And they didn't have the concept of
protecting different process spaces.
578
00:34:35,722 --> 00:34:40,042
So it was easy for one process to overrun
the memory into another process.
579
00:34:40,442 --> 00:34:43,202
So, the design of the multi-tasking
had to be very careful
580
00:34:43,282 --> 00:34:46,442
to try to avoid those types
of situations from happening.
581
00:34:46,522 --> 00:34:50,162
Well, when I came into the project,
I started in August of '83,
582
00:34:50,242 --> 00:34:54,442
there was no hardware, there wasn't
even a board with a 68000 on it.
583
00:34:54,522 --> 00:34:58,243
There was just... We had an
Atari 800 that we could use
584
00:34:58,323 --> 00:35:00,083
and we had a SAGE computer...
585
00:35:00,163 --> 00:35:03,723
That was a fancy
multi-user computer,
586
00:35:03,803 --> 00:35:07,843
designed to handle up to
four users at the same time.
587
00:35:07,923 --> 00:35:11,123
And we had 10 users jammed
on that tiny little box,
588
00:35:11,203 --> 00:35:14,963
all hammering at that one CPU,
trying to get it to do our work.
589
00:35:15,283 --> 00:35:20,563
Right around October, I think,
we had our first 68000 prototype
590
00:35:20,643 --> 00:35:24,803
which was just a 68000 with some
RAM on it, and a serial port.
591
00:35:25,363 --> 00:35:29,883
There was no fancy hardware at that
time, but it did allow us to...
592
00:35:29,963 --> 00:35:34,403
It allowed Carl to bring up his
pre-emptive multi-tasking kernel.
593
00:35:34,483 --> 00:35:37,523
It allowed me to get
graphics basically running
594
00:35:37,603 --> 00:35:40,723
with a little emulator for
some of the graphics.
595
00:35:40,803 --> 00:35:45,483
The architecture of the system
let the different developers
596
00:35:45,563 --> 00:35:48,043
develop their components,
their libraries,
597
00:35:48,123 --> 00:35:49,763
independent of each other,
598
00:35:49,843 --> 00:35:52,923
and actually load them into
the system independently,
599
00:35:53,003 --> 00:35:55,683
and allow them to test
without having to coordinate
600
00:35:55,763 --> 00:35:57,923
in a real serious way
with everyone else.
601
00:35:58,003 --> 00:36:00,163
I don't believe we
got real hardware,
602
00:36:00,243 --> 00:36:03,083
where they were plugging the
wire-wrapped bread boards in,
603
00:36:03,163 --> 00:36:06,283
until basically about
a month before CES.
604
00:36:06,643 --> 00:36:10,603
We had one bread board to
represent the computer,
605
00:36:10,683 --> 00:36:15,563
the 68000, the memory, and
it had some connectors on it
606
00:36:15,643 --> 00:36:18,403
to represent the sockets where
the three custom chips would go.
607
00:36:18,643 --> 00:36:24,083
Three 40-pin sockets to plug the umbilical
cords that went from the chip stacks,
608
00:36:24,163 --> 00:36:30,803
which were between five and seven
sets of boards with high-speed CMOS
609
00:36:30,923 --> 00:36:34,163
that emulated the functions
of the hardware.
610
00:36:34,243 --> 00:36:37,643
And each one of those would plug
into a different 40-pin socket
611
00:36:37,723 --> 00:36:39,603
on what we called then the
Lorraine motherboard.
612
00:36:39,683 --> 00:36:43,123
But it was a very
primitive way to mimic
613
00:36:43,203 --> 00:36:45,963
something that's going to be
turned into an integrated circuit.
614
00:36:46,043 --> 00:36:50,843
But there was no prototyping technology
at that time to quickly make a chip.
615
00:36:50,923 --> 00:36:56,043
You had to do this preliminary step and
work out all the details and the bugs.
616
00:36:56,123 --> 00:36:59,443
Then I finally was able to like...
Well, let me pull the emulator out,
617
00:36:59,523 --> 00:37:03,003
and plug in writing these
registers to the hardware
618
00:37:03,123 --> 00:37:04,683
and see if anything happened.
619
00:37:04,763 --> 00:37:07,923
And after three weeks to four
weeks of concentrated work,
620
00:37:08,003 --> 00:37:12,643
in the last week before CES, we
basically moved into the office.
621
00:37:12,723 --> 00:37:17,843
So it was quite an amazing time period
when we're all pushing each other
622
00:37:17,923 --> 00:37:19,603
to try to get more stuff done,
623
00:37:19,683 --> 00:37:22,563
and trying to help each other
to get that stuff done.
624
00:37:26,403 --> 00:37:30,403
The build-up to the CES shows
was actually insanity.
625
00:37:31,243 --> 00:37:34,723
It was not a nice smooth, kind of,
"OK, we're going to go to CES."
626
00:37:34,803 --> 00:37:36,603
It was like, "Oh, my God!
627
00:37:36,683 --> 00:37:39,403
"We've got to make
this work for CES."
628
00:37:39,483 --> 00:37:42,323
As we came up to that CES show,
629
00:37:42,403 --> 00:37:46,363
I was already part of the
higher-level discussions
630
00:37:46,443 --> 00:37:48,163
that were taking place
in the company.
631
00:37:50,043 --> 00:37:51,883
And so, unfortunately for me,
632
00:37:51,963 --> 00:37:54,923
I knew a lot more than other
people in the company knew,
633
00:37:55,003 --> 00:37:58,643
and I had a clear sense of
just how bad things were,
634
00:37:58,723 --> 00:38:00,723
how close we were to
the edge, financially.
635
00:38:01,123 --> 00:38:02,643
We were out of money.
636
00:38:02,723 --> 00:38:04,563
And it was difficult
to find money.
637
00:38:04,803 --> 00:38:07,283
Jay mortgaged his house.
638
00:38:07,363 --> 00:38:10,603
Dave sold at least one car. He
had some fancy, expensive cars.
639
00:38:10,683 --> 00:38:15,803
So, I was very aware of the
emptiness of the wallet.
640
00:38:15,883 --> 00:38:18,283
The CES show was kind of
a make-or-break thing.
641
00:38:18,363 --> 00:38:20,763
If we didn't make it to CES,
642
00:38:21,363 --> 00:38:23,083
it was gonna hurt.
643
00:38:23,163 --> 00:38:24,643
We had to show something.
644
00:38:24,723 --> 00:38:27,803
We had to show something
to people to impress them,
645
00:38:27,883 --> 00:38:33,003
to either get additional funding, or to
figure out a way to sell the product.
646
00:38:33,083 --> 00:38:35,243
We knew things were bad,
647
00:38:35,523 --> 00:38:39,083
but it didn't matter.
648
00:38:39,683 --> 00:38:42,323
We were gonna do what we
were gonna do anyway.
649
00:38:42,403 --> 00:38:44,883
The machine was always breaking
down, there were always problems
650
00:38:44,963 --> 00:38:46,683
where something would go
out and all of a sudden
651
00:38:46,763 --> 00:38:48,603
the blitter would stop working,
and those types of things.
652
00:38:48,963 --> 00:38:51,243
So, it was difficult
because it was a very...
653
00:38:51,323 --> 00:38:54,203
These were these separate boards
that were very complicated,
654
00:38:54,283 --> 00:38:57,043
with lots of wires on them, lots
of things that could go wrong.
655
00:38:57,443 --> 00:39:02,363
The hardware guys are doing their best to
make sure this hardware stays working.
656
00:39:02,443 --> 00:39:04,483
Things would die,
wires would break.
657
00:39:04,883 --> 00:39:08,123
It was a giant set of wire-wrapped
boards, it was fragile.
658
00:39:08,203 --> 00:39:09,843
We were very nervous about it.
659
00:39:10,243 --> 00:39:14,443
And in addition, we were trying to add
new features up to the last minute
660
00:39:14,523 --> 00:39:18,523
to make the CES demos just
blow everyone's socks off,
661
00:39:18,603 --> 00:39:21,883
we used to say, and that was
kind of the terminology we used.
662
00:39:21,963 --> 00:39:23,523
We blew everyone's socks off.
663
00:39:23,603 --> 00:39:26,683
But how to do that always
was up to the last minute.
664
00:39:26,763 --> 00:39:29,963
So many of us ended
up staying nights,
665
00:39:30,043 --> 00:39:34,883
and working weekends to try to get as
much done as we could before the show.
666
00:39:35,403 --> 00:39:40,283
It was frightening.
It was exhilarating.
667
00:39:40,883 --> 00:39:44,724
And then, a software
guy comes in
668
00:39:44,804 --> 00:39:48,284
and wants me to make a major
change to the hardware,
669
00:39:48,364 --> 00:39:50,644
a few weeks before CES,
670
00:39:50,724 --> 00:39:53,244
to put in a feature
for the graphics.
671
00:39:53,324 --> 00:39:54,884
And I'm flabbergasted.
672
00:39:54,964 --> 00:39:57,964
It is just, "No way.
Are you kidding?
673
00:39:58,044 --> 00:39:59,907
"We're not gonna make
that kind of change.
674
00:39:59,932 --> 00:40:01,188
We can't take that risk.
675
00:40:01,244 --> 00:40:03,444
"This is the whole company.
676
00:40:03,524 --> 00:40:07,724
"We mess this up and we have no
hardware, we are in big trouble."
677
00:40:07,924 --> 00:40:10,284
The hardware feature that
he wanted was line draw.
678
00:40:10,364 --> 00:40:12,304
Other, more expensive graphics computers,
679
00:40:12,329 --> 00:40:14,268
already had kind of a hardware line draw,
680
00:40:14,324 --> 00:40:17,684
but this was the first
time that a blitter
681
00:40:17,764 --> 00:40:20,524
was basically perverted into
being able to draw lines.
682
00:40:20,804 --> 00:40:24,604
It was a great idea,
but there was no time.
683
00:40:24,684 --> 00:40:26,524
And there was no schedule.
684
00:40:26,604 --> 00:40:29,884
And I wasn't going to allow it.
No way, no how.
685
00:40:29,964 --> 00:40:32,364
Bob Pariseau, the guy
in charge of software,
686
00:40:32,444 --> 00:40:36,164
is trying to convince me to do
this, because it's very important.
687
00:40:36,244 --> 00:40:38,524
And I absolutely will not do it.
688
00:40:38,604 --> 00:40:43,364
He grabs my arm, and in a joking
way, starts twisting my arm.
689
00:40:43,444 --> 00:40:45,444
"I'm twisting your arm,
you're gonna do this."
690
00:40:45,964 --> 00:40:48,924
The dog, Mitchie, Jay's dog,
691
00:40:49,324 --> 00:40:52,244
leaps to my defence,
and I can't help it.
692
00:40:52,324 --> 00:40:54,524
The dog jumped to my defence.
693
00:40:54,604 --> 00:40:55,884
Of course I'll put it in.
694
00:40:56,364 --> 00:40:59,284
And we took the risk, and we
took apart the wire wraps,
695
00:40:59,364 --> 00:41:03,084
and we made the changes, and we
made it to CES with line draw,
696
00:41:03,564 --> 00:41:07,564
one of the most astonishing things
to see in a machine of that time.
697
00:41:07,644 --> 00:41:08,764
Thank you, dog.
698
00:41:08,844 --> 00:41:13,484
When it was finally time to pack up the
office and take everything to the show,
699
00:41:13,564 --> 00:41:17,204
some of us were still working on
our code, and they had to, like,
700
00:41:17,284 --> 00:41:20,604
you know, have our computers plugged
into extension cords so we could
701
00:41:20,684 --> 00:41:23,644
walk out to the parking lot with
the computer and keep working
702
00:41:23,724 --> 00:41:26,524
right until they had to unplug
it and put it in the van.
703
00:41:26,604 --> 00:41:28,484
Because it was like that.
704
00:41:28,564 --> 00:41:30,444
The changes were happening
all the way up to
705
00:41:30,924 --> 00:41:34,884
when those boards were being taken and
put into aeroplane seats on aeroplanes
706
00:41:34,964 --> 00:41:36,444
and flown down to Las Vegas.
707
00:41:36,524 --> 00:41:40,044
It was chaos. There was nothing
smooth about that whole process.
708
00:41:48,604 --> 00:41:52,764
Everyone's hopes and
dreams were pinned to
709
00:41:52,844 --> 00:41:56,604
that moment when the
CES show opened,
710
00:41:57,484 --> 00:42:00,244
and the first people would
start to see our baby,
711
00:42:00,324 --> 00:42:02,204
and what kind of
response would it get.
712
00:42:02,284 --> 00:42:05,964
They had a booth there, all this Amiga
stuff that had been done before,
713
00:42:06,044 --> 00:42:09,444
like the Amiga joysticks, the Power
Sticks, some of the Amiga games
714
00:42:09,524 --> 00:42:13,924
that were actually designed to establish
the company as a real company.
715
00:42:14,004 --> 00:42:17,724
When the people finally got
a chance to see our baby,
716
00:42:17,804 --> 00:42:20,124
the response was overwhelming.
717
00:42:20,204 --> 00:42:22,244
It was astonishing.
718
00:42:22,324 --> 00:42:24,604
Every party that came in there,
719
00:42:24,684 --> 00:42:28,404
every major corporation that got
a chance to see the device,
720
00:42:28,484 --> 00:42:33,124
they were astonished at the magnificence
of the thing they had just seen.
721
00:42:33,204 --> 00:42:37,244
That was the great endorsement
that we were on the right track.
722
00:42:37,324 --> 00:42:39,684
We were knocking people's
socks off with this thing.
723
00:42:39,964 --> 00:42:46,084
And that night, then, the Amiga
executives said to the rest of staff
724
00:42:46,164 --> 00:42:47,844
they were so pleased
with everything.
725
00:42:47,924 --> 00:42:51,324
They took us out to dinner. We
had this awesome Italian dinner.
726
00:42:51,404 --> 00:42:52,684
Drank a lot of Chianti.
727
00:42:53,404 --> 00:42:56,804
And all through the meal, Dale and
RJ are over here at the side,
728
00:42:56,884 --> 00:42:59,844
and they're conversing between
themselves, and they're laughing,
729
00:42:59,924 --> 00:43:02,804
and they're having the
best possible time.
730
00:43:02,884 --> 00:43:05,924
And so we get done and he's saying,
"OK, we're gonna take the van,
731
00:43:06,004 --> 00:43:07,524
"and we're gonna go
back over to the show."
732
00:43:07,604 --> 00:43:09,044
And I said, "You're not
gonna be able to get in."
733
00:43:09,124 --> 00:43:10,924
I said, "They lock that
place up tight as a drum."
734
00:43:11,004 --> 00:43:12,364
They said, "Don't worry."
735
00:43:12,724 --> 00:43:16,604
Dale and I and that one
six-pack of warm beer.
736
00:43:18,084 --> 00:43:20,004
We went back to the trade show,
737
00:43:20,084 --> 00:43:22,804
and worked until we passed out.
738
00:43:23,124 --> 00:43:26,884
Because the demo
already existed,
739
00:43:26,964 --> 00:43:28,324
we made it better.
740
00:43:28,404 --> 00:43:33,524
The demo started as a yellow
and blue spinning ball
741
00:43:33,604 --> 00:43:38,004
that Sam Dicker wrote, that filled
the screen, and it was a great demo,
742
00:43:38,084 --> 00:43:41,964
and that was one of the canned demos
that we had for the show at CES.
743
00:43:42,044 --> 00:43:46,204
Prior to that, I had started working
on a modification of that demo,
744
00:43:46,284 --> 00:43:50,404
which was to basically shrink
it down to a small ball,
745
00:43:50,484 --> 00:43:51,644
which I called a Quickie.
746
00:43:51,724 --> 00:43:55,084
Using a play field, I could
make it bounce up and down.
747
00:43:55,164 --> 00:43:59,324
Having a background in physics,
I knew the simple algorithms
748
00:43:59,404 --> 00:44:02,084
to make something look like
it's bouncing up and down.
749
00:44:02,164 --> 00:44:06,724
And also knowing exactly how the play
field worked with a colour palette,
750
00:44:06,804 --> 00:44:11,084
I knew that I could put a trick in there
to make it look like there was a shadow,
751
00:44:11,164 --> 00:44:13,924
and that the ball would
actually cast a shadow.
752
00:44:14,484 --> 00:44:17,164
So I programmed that in there,
753
00:44:19,044 --> 00:44:22,684
and it was just a basic,
simple bouncing ball
754
00:44:22,764 --> 00:44:26,604
casting a shadow on a
simple grid in the back.
755
00:44:27,284 --> 00:44:31,564
What happened was that we
managed to fall asleep.
756
00:44:31,644 --> 00:44:34,325
I think I fell asleep first
and Dale went second.
757
00:44:34,405 --> 00:44:39,045
But the last thing that he did
was he had created a build,
758
00:44:39,125 --> 00:44:41,005
run it on the hardware,
759
00:44:41,085 --> 00:44:45,925
and then worked on the software a little
bit more to make one more change,
760
00:44:46,005 --> 00:44:49,845
and then while he was waiting for
that one more change to compile,
761
00:44:49,925 --> 00:44:51,525
he fell asleep.
762
00:44:51,605 --> 00:44:55,645
But what happened was then that the
two of us were in that room sleeping
763
00:44:55,725 --> 00:44:58,045
when our co-workers showed
up the next morning
764
00:44:58,125 --> 00:45:01,685
to clean up the booth and get ready
for the next day of the show.
765
00:45:01,765 --> 00:45:06,285
Both RJ and I are sleeping on the floor
cos we were there all night long,
766
00:45:07,325 --> 00:45:12,805
and I had left the bouncing ball that
we had just created that last night
767
00:45:12,885 --> 00:45:14,525
bouncing on the screen.
768
00:45:14,605 --> 00:45:17,965
The next morning we came in, and we
all looked at each other and said,
769
00:45:18,045 --> 00:45:20,205
"What the hell did those
two guys do last night?"
770
00:45:20,285 --> 00:45:24,365
When they came in, they clearly
recognised what was different,
771
00:45:24,445 --> 00:45:26,605
but no one knew that we were
in the next room sleeping,
772
00:45:26,685 --> 00:45:30,525
because we were in a room separate
from the main computer hardware room.
773
00:45:30,605 --> 00:45:34,725
We had to be in this little side
room where we had passed out.
774
00:45:34,805 --> 00:45:37,085
And so they didn't even know we were
in there for about half an hour,
775
00:45:37,165 --> 00:45:38,325
until someone stumbled upon us
776
00:45:38,350 --> 00:45:40,629
cos they were looking for a
place to put their coats.
777
00:45:40,685 --> 00:45:44,685
And they find the two
of us asleep in there.
778
00:45:46,325 --> 00:45:49,325
The show was only gonna
go on for one more day.
779
00:45:49,405 --> 00:45:53,765
Gary McCoy and Don Reisinger, they'd
already brought a lot of people by
780
00:45:53,845 --> 00:45:57,125
to show off the capabilities
of the Amiga computer.
781
00:45:57,205 --> 00:46:01,125
This was all behind curtains. It wasn't
open to anybody to just walk in.
782
00:46:01,205 --> 00:46:02,445
You had to be invited in.
783
00:46:02,525 --> 00:46:06,645
So it was like Sears and all these
other companies that were invited in.
784
00:46:06,725 --> 00:46:11,045
They had already seen this stuff, and
they all immediately went out and got,
785
00:46:11,125 --> 00:46:13,805
I think, just about every person
that they had already brought in,
786
00:46:13,885 --> 00:46:16,645
they brought them back
to see that demo.
787
00:46:22,445 --> 00:46:27,005
You could not believe the number of
people that wanted to get in to see
788
00:46:27,085 --> 00:46:29,725
what the hell was going
on inside that compound.
789
00:46:30,125 --> 00:46:31,605
I thought it was incredible.
790
00:46:32,405 --> 00:46:35,125
That was the most amazing thing.
791
00:46:35,405 --> 00:46:40,365
Yeah, real-time graphics was
amazing to do in those days.
792
00:46:41,045 --> 00:46:45,005
Now, of course, it's very commonplace,
but that was something special.
793
00:46:45,125 --> 00:46:47,965
It reminded me of the statement
from Samuel F.B. Morse,
794
00:46:48,045 --> 00:46:49,965
when he did the first telegraph.
795
00:46:50,045 --> 00:46:51,565
"What hath God wrought?"
796
00:46:51,645 --> 00:46:53,245
That's the first thing
that came to mind, is,
797
00:46:53,325 --> 00:46:55,485
"What in the hell have we
done here to this industry?"
798
00:47:04,365 --> 00:47:07,085
There was a lot of buzz
in the marketplace,
799
00:47:07,165 --> 00:47:09,469
and even Steve Jobs had heard the buzz
800
00:47:09,494 --> 00:47:12,269
and came over a couple of different times.
801
00:47:12,525 --> 00:47:18,165
After he visited, we were convinced
it was strictly a fishing expedition,
802
00:47:18,245 --> 00:47:21,165
to see what it was he
might be up against.
803
00:47:21,245 --> 00:47:25,165
We were constantly giving demos to
potential investors, or partners,
804
00:47:25,245 --> 00:47:27,565
or someone that could
bring in some cash.
805
00:47:27,645 --> 00:47:31,245
We had a number of the most
prominent venture capital people
806
00:47:31,325 --> 00:47:33,685
in the tech business
come and visit.
807
00:47:33,765 --> 00:47:36,205
They loved what we had,
808
00:47:36,285 --> 00:47:38,885
but in the final analysis,
809
00:47:38,965 --> 00:47:43,205
they figured it was gonna take a whole lot
of money to get this thing to the market,
810
00:47:43,285 --> 00:47:46,525
and they weren't willing to
go up against IBM and Apple.
811
00:47:46,965 --> 00:47:50,925
We were pretty nervous that if we
didn't get an influx of cash soon,
812
00:47:51,005 --> 00:47:54,685
or if the company
wasn't purchased soon,
813
00:47:54,765 --> 00:47:58,205
that we'd all be out of a job and that
dream would have just fallen apart.
814
00:47:58,285 --> 00:48:00,518
When Amiga started running out of money,
815
00:48:00,543 --> 00:48:02,829
Dave Morse had to start looking for some.
816
00:48:03,445 --> 00:48:05,587
And he ended up going back to Atari,
817
00:48:05,612 --> 00:48:08,389
where Jay Miner actually had some contacts.
818
00:48:08,885 --> 00:48:14,245
So, they made a deal that Atari would
lend them $500,000 to keep going.
819
00:48:14,325 --> 00:48:17,365
They would use that money
to actually make chips
820
00:48:17,445 --> 00:48:20,125
of the prototype chips that
they had previously made.
821
00:48:20,205 --> 00:48:25,045
If they didn't pay back that
loan by June 30th, 1984,
822
00:48:25,125 --> 00:48:28,045
it meant that Atari would get
that technology for nothing.
823
00:48:28,365 --> 00:48:32,005
The deal was made, and it was a
bit of a deal with the devil.
824
00:48:32,085 --> 00:48:36,445
There was that point in time when we
were going to have to produce or,
825
00:48:36,565 --> 00:48:40,485
you know, we were gonna end up being
part of Atari one way or the other.
826
00:48:40,605 --> 00:48:44,765
They didn't think it was a smart deal.
Jay Miner knew it wasn't a smart deal.
827
00:48:44,845 --> 00:48:46,478
But they really had no
options at that time,
828
00:48:46,503 --> 00:48:47,989
cos they were just
running out of money.
829
00:48:48,205 --> 00:48:49,485
But that deal was made
with Warner Brothers,
830
00:48:52,045 --> 00:48:55,845
and between that time and the time
that Commodore came into the picture,
831
00:48:55,925 --> 00:48:58,605
Warner Brothers sold the
whole thing to the Tramiels.
832
00:48:59,125 --> 00:49:01,725
Warner Communications' sale
of its Atari home computers
833
00:49:01,805 --> 00:49:04,605
may eliminate a big financial
headache for that company,
834
00:49:04,685 --> 00:49:08,325
but the sale, for $240 million
in notes to Jack Tramiel,
835
00:49:08,405 --> 00:49:10,125
who once headed
Commodore computers,
836
00:49:10,205 --> 00:49:12,325
could cause headaches for
a lot of other companies.
837
00:49:12,405 --> 00:49:15,645
Here's our clear-headed business
reporter, Barron's Editor Alan Abelson.
838
00:49:15,725 --> 00:49:16,965
- Good morning, Alan.
- Good morning.
839
00:49:17,045 --> 00:49:20,046
Well, you know, that kind of deal,
Bob, was a Henny Youngman deal.
840
00:49:20,126 --> 00:49:21,166
What does that mean?
841
00:49:21,246 --> 00:49:24,486
Well, that means that Warner said to
them, "Here, take my company, please."
842
00:49:24,566 --> 00:49:27,086
The fact is that Tramiel
almost got it for nothing.
843
00:49:27,206 --> 00:49:29,966
The terms were
extraordinarily easy.
844
00:49:30,046 --> 00:49:32,726
And, you know, Tramiel's a
guy who takes no prisoners.
845
00:49:32,806 --> 00:49:34,646
So this ought to
be quite a fight.
846
00:49:34,726 --> 00:49:37,646
A real grudge battle between
Commodore and Atari.
847
00:49:37,726 --> 00:49:41,406
So Jack Tramiel, when I knew him,
he was president of Commodore.
848
00:49:41,486 --> 00:49:45,086
He had a reputation.
His history was that
849
00:49:45,166 --> 00:49:49,366
he was in a concentration camp
in Germany in World War II.
850
00:49:49,446 --> 00:49:52,726
And he came out of that with
kind of a certain attitude.
851
00:49:52,806 --> 00:49:55,766
His attitude is
"business is hell."
852
00:49:55,846 --> 00:49:59,006
And if you get in his way,
he will send you there.
853
00:49:59,086 --> 00:50:02,366
You don't want to be in a
negotiation with a man
854
00:50:02,446 --> 00:50:05,886
who firmly believes
that business is war,
855
00:50:05,966 --> 00:50:08,526
and all he has to do is figure
out how to bring you down.
856
00:50:08,606 --> 00:50:10,726
He would be the guy you
want on your side.
857
00:50:11,606 --> 00:50:14,046
But you still wouldn't
necessarily trust him.
858
00:50:14,566 --> 00:50:17,886
Sometimes in a really intense meeting if
he wanted to show you how fierce he was
859
00:50:17,966 --> 00:50:21,286
and how strong he was, and how
much of a survivor he was,
860
00:50:21,366 --> 00:50:23,406
he would pull up his
shirt and show you
861
00:50:23,486 --> 00:50:27,046
the serial number that
had been tattooed on him
862
00:50:27,286 --> 00:50:29,446
when he was in a
concentration camp.
863
00:50:29,566 --> 00:50:31,648
The man was an extremely intense man
864
00:50:31,673 --> 00:50:34,430
and his family picked
up on that whole vibe.
865
00:50:34,486 --> 00:50:37,166
Are you prepared to tell
us why you left Commodore?
866
00:50:37,246 --> 00:50:39,206
The chairman of the
company, and myself,
867
00:50:39,286 --> 00:50:42,526
have disagreed on the
basic principles
868
00:50:42,606 --> 00:50:44,606
of how to run the company.
869
00:50:45,686 --> 00:50:49,526
And I felt if I cannot go
into my office smiling
870
00:50:50,206 --> 00:50:51,886
and being happy, I better quit.
871
00:50:51,966 --> 00:50:54,006
Commodore was a huge
business at the time.
872
00:50:54,486 --> 00:50:57,246
Irving Gould and Jack
Tramiel built that company
873
00:50:57,326 --> 00:51:00,406
to being a powerhouse in
home personal computing.
874
00:51:01,326 --> 00:51:04,046
When Jack went to Atari, it
was a good move for him.
875
00:51:04,126 --> 00:51:07,646
He was going to try to duplicate
the Commodore business model.
876
00:51:07,726 --> 00:51:10,006
He was going to try to
turn everything around.
877
00:51:10,086 --> 00:51:11,806
He knew what he had to do.
878
00:51:11,886 --> 00:51:15,766
And Irving Gould, who was
chairman of Commodore,
879
00:51:15,846 --> 00:51:19,606
was uncertain as to how powerful
and how successful Jack could be.
880
00:51:19,846 --> 00:51:22,646
As they started to approach
the June 30th deadline,
881
00:51:22,726 --> 00:51:26,326
they didn't want to just give
up that technology to Atari
882
00:51:26,406 --> 00:51:29,926
and they needed to be able
to pay back that loan
883
00:51:30,006 --> 00:51:31,566
in order to get that
off their back.
884
00:51:31,886 --> 00:51:34,046
That half-million dollars
that came in from Atari
885
00:51:34,126 --> 00:51:38,766
really did kind of get us a breath
of air for a short period of time.
886
00:51:38,846 --> 00:51:42,966
But Jack Tramiel from
Commodore had moved to Atari
887
00:51:43,046 --> 00:51:47,206
and then this was the idea of
going to work for Jack Tramiel,
888
00:51:47,286 --> 00:51:51,526
which all of us were quite nervous
about and didn't like that idea.
889
00:51:51,766 --> 00:51:55,606
It felt to us that as the
negotiations were progressing,
890
00:51:55,686 --> 00:51:58,206
they wanted more and more.
891
00:51:58,286 --> 00:51:59,661
And if it got to the point
892
00:51:59,686 --> 00:52:03,070
where we were putting them in
business to compete with us,
893
00:52:03,126 --> 00:52:05,406
that wouldn't have
made any sense to us.
894
00:52:05,486 --> 00:52:09,126
And we kept telling them that,
but we couldn't budge them.
895
00:52:09,206 --> 00:52:11,966
The Atari guys knew that we were
getting more and more desperate,
896
00:52:12,046 --> 00:52:14,846
that we're almost out of money,
that time was almost up,
897
00:52:14,926 --> 00:52:17,846
and they knew they
had us over a barrel
898
00:52:17,926 --> 00:52:19,686
and they believed
that it was too late,
899
00:52:19,766 --> 00:52:23,606
that we couldn't find
another partner to go with
900
00:52:23,686 --> 00:52:26,806
and that Atari acquisition
was the only hope for Amiga.
901
00:52:27,406 --> 00:52:29,246
Part of the deal that
we made with Atari
902
00:52:29,326 --> 00:52:32,606
was they would get the
detailed silicon drawings
903
00:52:32,686 --> 00:52:35,046
of how to make the
three custom chips.
904
00:52:35,126 --> 00:52:39,126
There was some things that we did
to protect ourselves against Atari.
905
00:52:39,606 --> 00:52:42,926
The set of drawings we
gave them were modified.
906
00:52:43,006 --> 00:52:44,486
They wouldn't work.
907
00:52:44,886 --> 00:52:49,446
There was only one set
of correct drawings,
908
00:52:49,526 --> 00:52:53,726
and they were saved in a dusty old
attachรฉ case here in this house.
909
00:52:53,806 --> 00:52:57,086
They only wanted the hardware, and
they weren't interested in the people.
910
00:52:57,166 --> 00:53:01,166
The just wanted the tool as a
weapon to point at Commodore
911
00:53:01,246 --> 00:53:03,526
and try to sink the
ship of Commodore.
912
00:53:08,966 --> 00:53:11,846
Somehow Dave got in
contact with Commodore.
913
00:53:11,926 --> 00:53:15,926
Dave and I had agreed to some
parameters of what was acceptable
914
00:53:16,006 --> 00:53:21,686
in terms of a price for the company,
and Dave went ahead and did a deal.
915
00:53:21,766 --> 00:53:24,366
Dave was very, very
pragmatic about this.
916
00:53:24,606 --> 00:53:26,686
And I think for him
the thing was,
917
00:53:27,046 --> 00:53:29,486
even though we can finish this,
918
00:53:29,726 --> 00:53:33,766
we don't know if we're going to have
the marketing horsepower to market it
919
00:53:33,926 --> 00:53:37,006
and that Commodore is
a better bet for that
920
00:53:37,086 --> 00:53:39,366
because they do have the
marketing horsepower.
921
00:53:39,446 --> 00:53:42,286
They've got the distribution system,
they've got the manufacturing.
922
00:53:42,366 --> 00:53:46,366
There was a lot of animosity between
Jack Tramiel and Irving Gould.
923
00:53:46,446 --> 00:53:51,286
And Irving Gould knew that if they
bought that technology outright,
924
00:53:51,366 --> 00:53:53,606
Jack Tramiel would not be
able to use that at Atari.
925
00:53:53,806 --> 00:53:57,166
So, what he ended up doing,
instead of just buying the chips
926
00:53:57,246 --> 00:54:00,646
was he bought the whole Amiga company
for about $30 million dollars.
927
00:54:00,726 --> 00:54:05,486
And I was with Dave the day
we drove over to Atari
928
00:54:05,566 --> 00:54:10,287
and presented the guy with
a cheque for $500,000,
929
00:54:10,367 --> 00:54:13,007
which he was not
at all expecting.
930
00:54:13,087 --> 00:54:14,847
And he almost fell
off his chair.
931
00:54:14,927 --> 00:54:19,167
He had to excuse himself from the
meeting to call Jack Tramiel,
932
00:54:19,247 --> 00:54:23,247
who was in the process
of buying Atari.
933
00:54:23,327 --> 00:54:27,527
And apparently, Tramiel, not
knowing anything about this deal,
934
00:54:27,607 --> 00:54:32,607
said "When somebody gives
you a cheque for $500,000,
935
00:54:32,687 --> 00:54:33,927
"you take it."
936
00:54:34,327 --> 00:54:37,807
And so we left. He took
the cheque and we left.
937
00:54:37,887 --> 00:54:42,087
Months later, Leonard Tramiel was
looking through some documents
938
00:54:42,167 --> 00:54:45,567
and he happened to see that
there was this deal with Amiga
939
00:54:45,647 --> 00:54:47,807
that perhaps wasn't
fully honoured.
940
00:54:47,887 --> 00:54:49,207
And that's when
the lawsuit came.
941
00:54:49,567 --> 00:54:52,967
Tramiel being Tramiel sued
Commodore and sued all of us.
942
00:55:02,447 --> 00:55:05,847
The computer business is not
dead, it's alive and kicking.
943
00:55:12,927 --> 00:55:15,727
When the lawsuit from
Jack Tramiel came along
944
00:55:15,807 --> 00:55:19,407
and Atari started suing Amiga,
and Jay Miner personally,
945
00:55:19,487 --> 00:55:23,287
the judge ordered that they had to stop
work on it until things were sorted out.
946
00:55:23,367 --> 00:55:26,567
The basis of the lawsuit
seems to be that
947
00:55:26,647 --> 00:55:30,327
the only way Atari was not
to get the chip technology
948
00:55:30,407 --> 00:55:33,407
was if the chips weren't
in a working state.
949
00:55:33,487 --> 00:55:38,607
When Dave Morse came over to Atari and
paid back the $500,000 on June 30th,
950
00:55:38,967 --> 00:55:41,967
he told them that the chips
weren't working yet.
951
00:55:42,047 --> 00:55:46,687
That got Amiga off the hook about
having to deliver the chips to Atari.
952
00:55:47,047 --> 00:55:49,727
However, when Leonard
Tramiel looked at it,
953
00:55:49,807 --> 00:55:51,647
he thought it was really
suspicious because
954
00:55:51,727 --> 00:55:54,487
they actually did have the
working prototypes of the chips.
955
00:55:54,567 --> 00:55:56,647
They were demo-ing the computer
956
00:55:56,727 --> 00:55:58,610
and they subsequently
successfully
957
00:55:58,635 --> 00:56:01,271
made the chips in silicon
that were working.
958
00:56:01,327 --> 00:56:03,367
So, he thought there was
something fishy about that.
959
00:56:06,287 --> 00:56:07,687
Yes, I am very happy.
960
00:56:09,687 --> 00:56:11,567
When Jack Tramiel bought Atari,
961
00:56:12,327 --> 00:56:15,967
he started pulling in all kinds
of engineers from Commodore.
962
00:56:16,087 --> 00:56:17,716
And a lot of those engineers
963
00:56:17,741 --> 00:56:21,231
were taking Commodore
intellectual property with them.
964
00:56:21,287 --> 00:56:25,327
Irving Gould really just wanted to
slow down Jack as much as he could,
965
00:56:25,407 --> 00:56:27,927
so he did a lawsuit
against Atari first.
966
00:56:28,607 --> 00:56:33,487
Jack attacking Commodore back
is probably somewhat warranted
967
00:56:33,567 --> 00:56:35,047
the way things were going.
968
00:56:35,127 --> 00:56:37,847
So, there was a lot of
animosity between those two
969
00:56:37,927 --> 00:56:39,247
and it really showed up.
970
00:56:40,207 --> 00:56:42,687
Oh, God. There is more to
this story but, I mean,
971
00:56:42,767 --> 00:56:46,527
we spent hours
with our attorneys
972
00:56:47,047 --> 00:56:50,127
preparing for a trial.
973
00:56:50,927 --> 00:56:54,807
And I was dressed and ready
to go down to testify,
974
00:56:55,647 --> 00:56:58,767
when we were told that
Commodore had settled.
975
00:57:08,287 --> 00:57:10,847
We had been watching
Atari, and of course
976
00:57:10,927 --> 00:57:13,927
Atari had thought that they
were going to get the Amiga.
977
00:57:14,047 --> 00:57:17,567
And when they didn't get the Amiga,
it was time to find a substitute
978
00:57:17,647 --> 00:57:19,087
that could compete
with the Amiga.
979
00:57:19,167 --> 00:57:20,767
They wanted to drive the Amiga
980
00:57:20,847 --> 00:57:23,207
and drive Commodore out of business
with what they were doing.
981
00:57:23,447 --> 00:57:25,847
The Tramiel family was
nothing if not resourceful.
982
00:57:26,287 --> 00:57:29,527
So once they took over Atari and
they were trying to revive it,
983
00:57:29,607 --> 00:57:34,047
they needed a new product and it was
time to move into 16-bit technology.
984
00:57:34,127 --> 00:57:38,167
Shiraz Shivji was the
designer of the Atari STE.
985
00:57:38,247 --> 00:57:39,527
He came right from Commodore.
986
00:57:39,607 --> 00:57:41,367
They knew of our
specs pretty well,
987
00:57:41,447 --> 00:57:44,007
and so they tried to copy
that as much as they could,
988
00:57:44,087 --> 00:57:49,047
and throw together a machine
that would look as good on paper
989
00:57:49,127 --> 00:57:50,487
and try to compete with us.
990
00:57:51,367 --> 00:57:54,007
And what's the quickest thing
they could put together?
991
00:57:54,087 --> 00:57:56,527
The 68000, a lot of RAM,
992
00:57:57,327 --> 00:57:58,407
and a MIDI port.
993
00:58:01,407 --> 00:58:05,767
The Atari 520 STE has twice the
power of many business models.
994
00:58:07,327 --> 00:58:09,367
I didn't dislike the STE at all.
995
00:58:09,447 --> 00:58:10,927
I thought it was OK.
996
00:58:11,007 --> 00:58:15,527
It just didn't have anything inside
it that was exciting, really.
997
00:58:15,887 --> 00:58:20,007
Atari ST was a little bit
more purist, I suppose.
998
00:58:21,287 --> 00:58:23,407
By "purist" you can read "shit."
999
00:58:23,687 --> 00:58:29,687
The Atari ST hardware and software-wise,
was far more evolutionary.
1000
00:58:30,967 --> 00:58:33,127
Kind of what you would expect
somebody to have done.
1001
00:58:33,207 --> 00:58:37,167
The ST had the same processor,
but it was slightly faster.
1002
00:58:37,647 --> 00:58:41,007
It was 8 megahertz, instead
of just over 7 megahertz.
1003
00:58:41,087 --> 00:58:45,887
The ST didn't have a blitter, so it
wasn't able to shift as many pixels.
1004
00:58:46,687 --> 00:58:51,327
The ST didn't have a Copper, but you
could kind of fake display lists,
1005
00:58:52,047 --> 00:58:54,207
of a sort. Not really.
1006
00:58:54,407 --> 00:58:55,888
It didn't have sprite hardware.
1007
00:59:00,008 --> 00:59:01,448
It can paint pictures.
1008
00:59:02,048 --> 00:59:03,368
And make them move.
1009
00:59:04,328 --> 00:59:07,768
The ST palette was rubbish.
I think it had 512 colours,
1010
00:59:08,248 --> 00:59:13,168
and they weren't
even nice colours.
1011
00:59:14,728 --> 00:59:16,048
It didn't have sprite hardware.
1012
00:59:16,728 --> 00:59:18,288
The audio hardware was rubbish.
1013
00:59:18,368 --> 00:59:20,008
Scroll and the
music will scroll.
1014
00:59:24,488 --> 00:59:26,888
OK, we're just using the Atari
right now, nothing else?
1015
00:59:26,968 --> 00:59:29,168
That's correct. The sound chip in
the Atari is playing all the music.
1016
00:59:29,248 --> 00:59:30,528
OK, we can stop
that for a second.
1017
00:59:30,608 --> 00:59:33,888
The ST didn't have the
capabilities of the Amiga,
1018
00:59:33,968 --> 00:59:36,288
and the operating system
1019
00:59:36,448 --> 00:59:39,688
because they were under
such time constraints,
1020
00:59:39,768 --> 00:59:42,848
wasn't as mature as the operating
system and the user interface
1021
00:59:42,928 --> 00:59:44,328
that the Amiga had
when it was launched.
1022
00:59:44,528 --> 00:59:46,848
Its operating system was TOS.
1023
00:59:47,728 --> 00:59:49,688
Well, that said it all to me.
1024
00:59:50,608 --> 00:59:52,688
That it was the Tramiel
Operating System.
1025
00:59:52,768 --> 00:59:55,568
When it first came out everyone
called it the "Jackintosh"
1026
00:59:55,648 --> 00:59:57,962
because it had a nice black and white mode
1027
00:59:57,987 --> 01:00:00,032
so it could do what the Macintosh did
1028
01:00:00,088 --> 01:00:01,608
plus a little bit of colour.
1029
01:00:01,688 --> 01:00:04,128
And it did it OK.
1030
01:00:04,208 --> 01:00:07,728
You know, it didn't multi-task,
it ran GEM-DOS or TOS,
1031
01:00:07,808 --> 01:00:10,168
which was really just
repackaged GEM-DOS
1032
01:00:10,248 --> 01:00:12,448
that made it a little
more MS-DOS-like
1033
01:00:12,528 --> 01:00:15,568
so it was easy for people to write
programs for it if they knew MS-DOS.
1034
01:00:15,648 --> 01:00:19,008
But MS-DOS was the past.
1035
01:00:19,088 --> 01:00:20,248
It wasn't moving forward.
1036
01:00:20,568 --> 01:00:22,648
The ST had two things over
the Amiga, in my opinion.
1037
01:00:22,728 --> 01:00:25,438
The first was that beautiful
little monochrome display
1038
01:00:25,463 --> 01:00:26,792
that made it look like
1039
01:00:26,848 --> 01:00:29,848
the 'Jackintosh' that it is
referred to as affectionately.
1040
01:00:30,528 --> 01:00:32,208
And the other thing that
it had over the Amiga,
1041
01:00:32,288 --> 01:00:33,808
which for me was a
stroke of genius,
1042
01:00:33,888 --> 01:00:37,728
which is what defined the ST,
were a pair of MIDI ports.
1043
01:00:37,808 --> 01:00:39,808
And as a musician
myself at the time,
1044
01:00:39,888 --> 01:00:42,488
I had an ST because
it ran Creator,
1045
01:00:43,168 --> 01:00:46,088
which of course, now is
Logic Pro on the Mac.
1046
01:00:46,368 --> 01:00:49,808
They also had a buffered MIDI port, which
is what you really needed in those days
1047
01:00:50,288 --> 01:00:53,528
and unfortunately the Amiga didn't
really have a buffered serial port so
1048
01:00:53,608 --> 01:00:56,448
our MIDI could conceivably
break down faster.
1049
01:00:56,528 --> 01:01:01,208
On the other hand, once people got
better at writing multitasking code
1050
01:01:01,288 --> 01:01:03,042
music software worked
a whole lot better
1051
01:01:03,067 --> 01:01:04,992
than it ever did when
it was single tasking.
1052
01:01:05,088 --> 01:01:09,688
The Tramiels were good at
pushing less expensive hardware
1053
01:01:09,768 --> 01:01:12,008
and the ST kind of wormed
its way into the picture.
1054
01:01:12,608 --> 01:01:15,848
My idea is always to try to
bring the best technology
1055
01:01:15,928 --> 01:01:19,048
at the lowest price
to the masses.
1056
01:01:19,128 --> 01:01:22,528
We are a company which we like to sell
to the masses, not to the classes.
1057
01:01:22,608 --> 01:01:27,768
I think the ST was a
really good example
1058
01:01:27,848 --> 01:01:30,048
of what a Commodore-like
product was.
1059
01:01:30,128 --> 01:01:34,568
It was very simple mechanically. There
was a lot of integration everywhere.
1060
01:01:34,648 --> 01:01:38,008
You can put a chip to reduce
the number of parts on it.
1061
01:01:38,088 --> 01:01:40,328
They had done a very
good job at that.
1062
01:01:40,408 --> 01:01:42,328
And it was simple
to manufacture.
1063
01:01:42,408 --> 01:01:45,568
I have to give them credit because
for the amount of time they had,
1064
01:01:45,648 --> 01:01:48,168
the few months they had to
pull the Atari ST together,
1065
01:01:48,248 --> 01:01:49,688
it actually worked pretty well.
1066
01:01:49,768 --> 01:01:52,168
It wasn't an Amiga in terms of the
total capability of the system
1067
01:01:52,248 --> 01:01:53,568
and what it was capable of,
1068
01:01:53,648 --> 01:01:56,048
but it was something that
could definitely sell
1069
01:01:56,128 --> 01:01:59,888
as an increment above the Apple
II, or above the Commodore 64.
1070
01:01:59,968 --> 01:02:02,307
We were concerned that the
Atari would take away
1071
01:02:02,332 --> 01:02:04,432
a lot of the thunder
that the Amiga had
1072
01:02:04,488 --> 01:02:07,528
and in fact, it did, because
they did beat us to market
1073
01:02:07,608 --> 01:02:09,648
and it did have a lot
of good capabilities.
1074
01:02:09,728 --> 01:02:12,208
Certainly when the
Atari hit the ground
1075
01:02:12,288 --> 01:02:16,288
it did better at some things in the
first year or two than the Amiga did
1076
01:02:16,368 --> 01:02:18,008
because of all the
stuff that was there.
1077
01:02:18,088 --> 01:02:19,648
The Amiga had a steeper
learning curve.
1078
01:02:19,728 --> 01:02:24,128
We have introduced the ST in
the United States on July 8th.
1079
01:02:24,488 --> 01:02:26,688
We are selling
everything we make.
1080
01:02:26,768 --> 01:02:29,928
It was the best launch I had in the
history of the computer business.
1081
01:02:30,008 --> 01:02:33,008
Jack Tramiel, of course, was the
boss of Commodore Computers.
1082
01:02:33,088 --> 01:02:35,248
Since his sudden and rather
startling departure,
1083
01:02:35,328 --> 01:02:37,247
Commodore, like many another big name,
1084
01:02:37,272 --> 01:02:39,632
has been beset by major
financial problems.
1085
01:02:39,688 --> 01:02:40,768
But now they are fighting back.
1086
01:02:40,848 --> 01:02:44,728
And Frank Leonardi is Vice-President
of Marketing Business Systems,
1087
01:02:44,808 --> 01:02:47,168
Commodore Business
Machines, Incorporated.
1088
01:02:47,248 --> 01:02:48,968
I was hired by Commodore
1089
01:02:49,048 --> 01:02:53,728
and they wanted to
duplicate the market-entry
1090
01:02:54,128 --> 01:02:56,688
of the new Amiga technology
1091
01:02:57,488 --> 01:03:00,608
just as the Macintosh
was done by Apple.
1092
01:03:00,688 --> 01:03:05,368
So, they brought me in to duplicate
the channel penetration,
1093
01:03:05,448 --> 01:03:08,208
the concept, the marketing,
put the team together
1094
01:03:08,288 --> 01:03:12,368
and try to see if they could go ahead
and get the Amiga out on the market.
1095
01:03:12,568 --> 01:03:15,128
When they look at the speed and
the architecture of the Amiga
1096
01:03:15,208 --> 01:03:17,316
compared to the speed and the
architecture of the Macintosh,
1097
01:03:17,341 --> 01:03:18,272
there's no comparison.
1098
01:03:18,488 --> 01:03:19,808
When they launched the Amiga,
1099
01:03:19,888 --> 01:03:23,768
Commodore marketing did a big,
splashy launch in New York.
1100
01:03:24,368 --> 01:03:27,888
They had celebrities there,
they had all kinds of press,
1101
01:03:27,968 --> 01:03:31,528
the computer press, but
also just mainstream press.
1102
01:03:32,608 --> 01:03:34,688
Good evening, ladies
and gentlemen.
1103
01:03:35,368 --> 01:03:38,128
Commodore welcomes you
to Lincoln Center.
1104
01:03:38,808 --> 01:03:42,289
My name is Bob Truckenbrod, Vice
President of Marketing for Commodore,
1105
01:03:43,369 --> 01:03:44,849
and I will be your host
1106
01:03:44,929 --> 01:03:47,689
for what promises to be a
very exciting exhibition.
1107
01:03:49,569 --> 01:03:54,009
For tonight is the world
premiere of Amiga.
1108
01:03:54,129 --> 01:03:58,569
The launch of the Amiga in New
York was a wonderful experience.
1109
01:03:58,649 --> 01:04:02,809
We were so impressed that
Commodore could pull that off.
1110
01:04:02,889 --> 01:04:06,689
You know, right there at Lincoln Center,
to announce the Amiga to the world.
1111
01:04:06,769 --> 01:04:09,249
And to have all of us in tuxedos
1112
01:04:09,329 --> 01:04:12,489
and the women in beautiful
dresses and that kind of thing.
1113
01:04:12,569 --> 01:04:13,689
It really was fun.
1114
01:04:13,769 --> 01:04:17,849
I mean, to see all these dudes
dressed in black-tie, man,
1115
01:04:17,929 --> 01:04:22,329
it was just too much. Too much.
1116
01:04:22,569 --> 01:04:24,849
We did a satellite
uplink on this.
1117
01:04:25,089 --> 01:04:27,249
So this thing actually
kinda went world-wide.
1118
01:04:27,609 --> 01:04:31,449
The same time we showed that
launch from Lincoln Center
1119
01:04:31,529 --> 01:04:33,529
and anybody that
could sign on to it
1120
01:04:33,609 --> 01:04:36,809
was able to sign on and see the
launch exactly as it occurred.
1121
01:04:36,889 --> 01:04:40,049
Commodore really, you know,
they treated us very well.
1122
01:04:40,129 --> 01:04:43,249
I mean, they set all
that stuff out for us
1123
01:04:43,369 --> 01:04:45,729
and in some ways I felt like
1124
01:04:45,809 --> 01:04:49,529
some of the complaints about
Commodore were overblown
1125
01:04:49,609 --> 01:04:52,849
because they really did take the
thing and they really ran with it.
1126
01:04:52,929 --> 01:04:54,649
The sales team and
the marketing team
1127
01:04:54,729 --> 01:04:58,689
was involved only to the point of
trying to address the end use.
1128
01:04:58,769 --> 01:05:00,609
How were we going to
address the Amiga?
1129
01:05:00,689 --> 01:05:02,769
What was its main use?
1130
01:05:02,849 --> 01:05:05,609
And at that time there was
a guy named Bob Pariseau
1131
01:05:05,689 --> 01:05:07,129
who gave the presentation.
1132
01:05:07,609 --> 01:05:11,169
He was one of the engineers involved
from the original Amiga days.
1133
01:05:11,249 --> 01:05:12,649
The Amiga computer.
1134
01:05:14,169 --> 01:05:17,729
We've lived our dream, and
seen it come to life.
1135
01:05:18,729 --> 01:05:20,089
Now it's your turn.
1136
01:05:20,689 --> 01:05:23,769
What will you do with
the Amiga computer?
1137
01:05:24,049 --> 01:05:26,569
Bob basically was,
kind of the overseer
1138
01:05:26,889 --> 01:05:29,649
of a lot of the technical stuff,
particularly the software side.
1139
01:05:30,449 --> 01:05:34,809
And he did have the ability to
translate the techno side of things
1140
01:05:34,889 --> 01:05:37,609
into terms that I think most
people could really understand.
1141
01:05:37,689 --> 01:05:39,649
So when we needed a
spokesman who could,
1142
01:05:40,289 --> 01:05:42,449
if he got cornered on
a technical question,
1143
01:05:42,529 --> 01:05:46,209
could respond with a
technology-based answer
1144
01:05:46,289 --> 01:05:48,569
but he also could
make that translation
1145
01:05:48,649 --> 01:05:50,849
into terms that would be
more consumer-friendly.
1146
01:05:51,449 --> 01:05:52,809
Good evening.
1147
01:05:53,129 --> 01:05:55,249
What you are about to witness
1148
01:05:55,649 --> 01:05:59,569
is the result of an effort
of research and engineering
1149
01:05:59,849 --> 01:06:02,009
that began in 1982
1150
01:06:03,009 --> 01:06:04,569
and which, to date,
1151
01:06:04,649 --> 01:06:09,129
has consumed over 100 man-years
of engineering talent.
1152
01:06:10,169 --> 01:06:11,489
The Amiga computer.
1153
01:06:12,569 --> 01:06:14,849
What we demonstrated
at the launch
1154
01:06:15,249 --> 01:06:17,769
was just mind-blowing
for these guys.
1155
01:06:17,849 --> 01:06:21,369
When we went after that launch
1156
01:06:21,449 --> 01:06:24,209
it was to show audio, music,
1157
01:06:24,289 --> 01:06:26,569
graphics and speed.
1158
01:06:26,649 --> 01:06:27,849
And in doing that,
1159
01:06:27,929 --> 01:06:30,529
with the technology difference
of having the three chips
1160
01:06:30,649 --> 01:06:34,449
we tried to convince the world
that we had a better, faster
1161
01:06:34,529 --> 01:06:35,969
more colourful machine
1162
01:06:36,049 --> 01:06:38,449
and a distribution setup
1163
01:06:38,609 --> 01:06:40,489
that could easily
be transitioned to.
1164
01:06:40,569 --> 01:06:44,049
To show off the graphics
capabilities they got Andy Warhol
1165
01:06:44,129 --> 01:06:46,489
and Deborah Harry, who is
the singer in Blondie.
1166
01:06:46,569 --> 01:06:50,009
Andy Warhol was famous for
doing images of stars.
1167
01:06:50,089 --> 01:06:54,129
He would do a portrait of them with
very primary colour backgrounds.
1168
01:06:54,649 --> 01:06:57,009
And so they got him to do one
of those type of images,
1169
01:06:57,089 --> 01:07:00,529
where he would scan a picture
of her in and then colour it.
1170
01:07:00,609 --> 01:07:04,649
I was there for the rehearsals that
were going on with Andy Warhol.
1171
01:07:04,729 --> 01:07:08,689
And it was dicey, because the computer
was still not quite reliable.
1172
01:07:08,769 --> 01:07:13,329
And we were very concerned that it might
crash or just totally catch on fire,
1173
01:07:13,409 --> 01:07:16,649
burn up or something in the
middle of this big show
1174
01:07:16,729 --> 01:07:19,649
where we had all of this
press from New York.
1175
01:07:19,769 --> 01:07:22,729
We had this artist at
Amiga called Jack Haeger.
1176
01:07:22,809 --> 01:07:24,209
He was just a brilliant artist.
1177
01:07:24,289 --> 01:07:27,969
A lot of the early stuff that
was just awesome was Jack.
1178
01:07:28,049 --> 01:07:30,609
And Jack was also smooth
and a good talker.
1179
01:07:30,689 --> 01:07:34,289
And so, we decided he'd get
up on stage with Andy Warhol.
1180
01:07:34,849 --> 01:07:37,769
You found it to be very
spontaneous, didn't you?
1181
01:07:37,849 --> 01:07:40,889
Yeah, it's great. It's
such a great thing.
1182
01:07:44,929 --> 01:07:46,769
What more can you say?
1183
01:07:46,889 --> 01:07:48,049
Well...
1184
01:07:48,489 --> 01:07:53,089
Andy Warhol is using my
Graphicraft paint program
1185
01:07:53,209 --> 01:07:58,209
to modify a digitised image of
Deborah Harry that he just got
1186
01:07:58,289 --> 01:08:00,489
into the Amiga computer.
1187
01:08:00,889 --> 01:08:05,649
And we had rehearsed with Andy
Warhol, who was an artist.
1188
01:08:05,729 --> 01:08:08,369
He's not an engineer and
he's not a logical guy.
1189
01:08:08,449 --> 01:08:11,169
And so you can give him
logical instructions.
1190
01:08:11,289 --> 01:08:14,569
But he was an artist,
he wasn't an engineer.
1191
01:08:14,649 --> 01:08:16,769
And so we told him, "You can
do this, but don't do that.
1192
01:08:16,849 --> 01:08:18,089
"And do this and don't do that."
1193
01:08:18,169 --> 01:08:20,289
And he said, "Yeah, yeah.
I got it, I got it."
1194
01:08:20,369 --> 01:08:22,969
But he wasn't getting it.
And then, he was...
1195
01:08:23,049 --> 01:08:24,769
And he gets up on stage
1196
01:08:24,849 --> 01:08:29,770
and he starts playing with
Graphicraft like some crazy monkey,
1197
01:08:29,850 --> 01:08:32,530
when we know that the
thing is so fragile,
1198
01:08:32,610 --> 01:08:35,890
and the hardware's just
barely holding it together.
1199
01:08:35,970 --> 01:08:39,530
And the one thing that was
a disaster was flood fill.
1200
01:08:39,610 --> 01:08:43,530
That the flood fill wasn't working
correctly in the hardware. It would leak.
1201
01:08:43,610 --> 01:08:47,010
And if you clicked in the wrong place
and made it flood fill the wrong way,
1202
01:08:47,090 --> 01:08:50,330
it would leak and fill the entire
thing, and wipe out your entire image.
1203
01:08:50,410 --> 01:08:53,930
And so we told him, "Whatever you
do, don't touch the flood fill."
1204
01:08:54,010 --> 01:08:56,570
So the first thing the guy
reaches for is the flood fill.
1205
01:08:56,690 --> 01:08:59,050
And he's all, like...
1206
01:09:03,250 --> 01:09:05,370
And you gotta see,
Jack's face is...
1207
01:09:05,450 --> 01:09:08,650
Oh, God, it's just so awesome!
He's filled with this horror.
1208
01:09:08,730 --> 01:09:12,010
It's going down!
It's going down.
1209
01:09:12,090 --> 01:09:13,890
And he clicked on it and
he created the flood fill.
1210
01:09:13,970 --> 01:09:16,770
And I think all of us that
were on the engineering team,
1211
01:09:16,850 --> 01:09:18,210
sitting in the
audience, were like,
1212
01:09:18,290 --> 01:09:20,850
"No! What's gonna happen now?"
1213
01:09:20,930 --> 01:09:22,850
And we saw that flood fill
and it kind of filled in.
1214
01:09:22,930 --> 01:09:24,090
You know, you watched
it progress,
1215
01:09:24,170 --> 01:09:26,970
and you thought it'd get to the end and
then there'd be a guru meditation.
1216
01:09:27,050 --> 01:09:28,970
You know, the machine
would've crashed.
1217
01:09:29,050 --> 01:09:32,490
But, no, it didn't. It made
it through and it was all...
1218
01:09:32,570 --> 01:09:35,250
And we were relieved by that.
1219
01:09:35,330 --> 01:09:38,050
The immediate reaction after
the launch was phenomenal.
1220
01:09:38,130 --> 01:09:40,290
The kinds of words that,
you know, you just...
1221
01:09:40,370 --> 01:09:42,650
You'd write for yourself if
you wanted to write them
1222
01:09:42,730 --> 01:09:44,050
to describe something
phenomenal.
1223
01:09:44,170 --> 01:09:46,490
They responded very much like
people do to video games.
1224
01:09:46,570 --> 01:09:49,170
"Why have the graphics gotten better?
Why has the sound has gotten better?"
1225
01:09:49,250 --> 01:09:52,050
Because you respond to it with
your ears, with your eyes.
1226
01:09:52,370 --> 01:09:55,570
The tactofeel we now have in game
controllers and things as well,
1227
01:09:55,650 --> 01:09:57,570
and with feedback,
that's all a part of it.
1228
01:09:57,650 --> 01:10:00,650
Because as human beings,
that's what we respond to.
1229
01:10:00,730 --> 01:10:04,770
And we knocked their socks off,
absolutely knocked their socks off.
1230
01:10:10,290 --> 01:10:14,650
Re-experience the
mind unbounded.
1231
01:10:18,890 --> 01:10:23,370
Amiga, the first personal computer
that gives you a creative edge.
1232
01:10:23,450 --> 01:10:27,010
There used to be this massive,
massive disparity between the games
1233
01:10:27,090 --> 01:10:29,370
that we could play at home
and the kind of technology,
1234
01:10:29,450 --> 01:10:32,410
and the quality experience you
could get in the arcades.
1235
01:10:32,490 --> 01:10:34,010
And that was always
really evident
1236
01:10:34,090 --> 01:10:38,490
when you would see, like, the Spectrum
or the Commodore 64 adaptations,
1237
01:10:38,570 --> 01:10:40,290
the conversions of
those coin-op games.
1238
01:10:40,370 --> 01:10:42,130
I think Operation Wolf
was one that I remember.
1239
01:10:42,210 --> 01:10:44,490
It had the gun. The graphics
were actually really cool.
1240
01:10:44,570 --> 01:10:46,890
Then you would come home and play
on your 64 or your Spectrum,
1241
01:10:46,970 --> 01:10:48,210
and it was just nothing like it.
1242
01:10:48,290 --> 01:10:51,730
I mean, it wasn't anything like
Operation Wolf in anything but name.
1243
01:10:51,810 --> 01:10:53,370
And that was always
kind of depressing.
1244
01:10:53,450 --> 01:10:56,130
What I think is actually really interesting
about the Amiga generation is,
1245
01:10:56,210 --> 01:10:59,290
I think that was the first time that
we really started to close that gap.
1246
01:10:59,370 --> 01:11:01,050
By the time the Amiga came out,
1247
01:11:01,130 --> 01:11:04,570
there were already
coin-operated arcade machines
1248
01:11:04,650 --> 01:11:08,010
also using the Motorola MC68000.
1249
01:11:08,090 --> 01:11:10,370
And you could see in the
arcades what you could do
1250
01:11:10,450 --> 01:11:12,930
when you spent $5,000
or $10,000 on hardware
1251
01:11:13,010 --> 01:11:15,250
and built out a
really fabulous game.
1252
01:11:15,330 --> 01:11:17,930
And I'm thinking about games at
that time like Marble Madness.
1253
01:11:18,010 --> 01:11:21,610
Of course, we later licensed Marble
Madness and brought it to the Amiga.
1254
01:11:21,690 --> 01:11:23,530
That's the kind of thing
that became possible.
1255
01:11:23,610 --> 01:11:27,970
Suddenly, you could do things at
home that were pretty mind-boggling.
1256
01:11:28,050 --> 01:11:31,570
When I saw Marble Madness for
the first time on the Amiga,
1257
01:11:31,650 --> 01:11:34,530
it was shocking. And it
was shocking because,
1258
01:11:35,330 --> 01:11:37,090
as far as I can recall,
1259
01:11:37,170 --> 01:11:41,970
it was the first time that a
video game on a home computer,
1260
01:11:43,130 --> 01:11:44,890
pixel for pixel,
1261
01:11:44,970 --> 01:11:46,930
replicated an arcade game.
1262
01:11:47,010 --> 01:11:49,730
It was the arcade version.
There is no difference.
1263
01:11:49,810 --> 01:11:52,170
There might be very
slight differences,
1264
01:11:52,250 --> 01:11:56,690
but the quality of that Amiga version
was so fantastic at the time.
1265
01:11:56,770 --> 01:11:58,170
It looked like an arcade game.
1266
01:11:58,250 --> 01:12:00,530
And that was the big excitement.
You wanted that.
1267
01:12:00,610 --> 01:12:03,010
I just loved its clean clarity.
1268
01:12:03,090 --> 01:12:05,690
Marble Madness was
well-suited to the Amiga,
1269
01:12:05,770 --> 01:12:08,530
because it scrolled
these playfields.
1270
01:12:08,610 --> 01:12:11,542
The background as the marble was rolling
1271
01:12:11,567 --> 01:12:14,354
was a perfect operation for the chips.
1272
01:12:14,490 --> 01:12:17,730
So I think what the Amiga
really did as a computer was
1273
01:12:17,810 --> 01:12:20,530
it sort of took the blinders
off game developers
1274
01:12:21,130 --> 01:12:23,970
and it allowed us to start creating
more immersive experiences
1275
01:12:24,050 --> 01:12:26,330
with better graphics
and better sounds.
1276
01:12:26,410 --> 01:12:30,050
And it opened up the potential audience
to a much larger group of people
1277
01:12:30,130 --> 01:12:33,170
that were looking for something,
you know, a bit more entertaining
1278
01:12:33,250 --> 01:12:36,210
than what they were getting
from the 8-bit computers.
1279
01:12:44,370 --> 01:12:46,450
The first time I saw
Defender of the Crown,
1280
01:12:46,770 --> 01:12:48,530
I had to ask the guy behind the counter
1281
01:12:48,555 --> 01:12:50,754
to show me that it was
actually running code.
1282
01:12:50,810 --> 01:12:53,290
He said, "Have a go." "OK."
1283
01:12:55,290 --> 01:12:57,650
"Oh, my God."
1284
01:12:57,770 --> 01:13:00,610
I still remember playing the jousting.
The jousting was great.
1285
01:13:00,690 --> 01:13:04,130
It was like you were...
You were in a movie.
1286
01:13:05,010 --> 01:13:07,210
And yes, a pixelated
movie, but still.
1287
01:13:07,290 --> 01:13:08,949
Compared to the games you'd been playing
1288
01:13:08,974 --> 01:13:10,834
only maybe a year or two before that,
1289
01:13:10,890 --> 01:13:13,090
the graphical fidelity
was astonishing.
1290
01:13:13,170 --> 01:13:16,570
Bob Jacob at Cinemaware
absolutely loved movies,
1291
01:13:16,650 --> 01:13:18,691
and that's why he
started the company.
1292
01:13:18,771 --> 01:13:23,451
He had a real passion for storytelling
and for creating immersive environments,
1293
01:13:23,531 --> 01:13:26,011
and the Amiga allowed
him to do that.
1294
01:13:26,091 --> 01:13:31,971
It gave you this cinema experience
where you just didn't play a game,
1295
01:13:32,051 --> 01:13:33,691
but between the levels,
1296
01:13:33,771 --> 01:13:38,411
you'd see cutscenes where you, the hero,
was getting together with a woman,
1297
01:13:38,491 --> 01:13:42,171
or you, the hero, was demanding
justice from the bad guys.
1298
01:13:42,251 --> 01:13:45,971
We were able to do cutscenes
that had actual animation.
1299
01:13:47,131 --> 01:13:51,051
So when you rescue the princess and
you have the sword fighting scene,
1300
01:13:51,131 --> 01:13:56,251
you can have a cutscene at the end
where you have shadows on the wall,
1301
01:13:56,331 --> 01:13:59,211
and the hero embraces
the princess,
1302
01:13:59,291 --> 01:14:02,011
and we could let your
imagination run wild with that.
1303
01:14:02,091 --> 01:14:04,377
And it was a game that brought you in,
1304
01:14:04,402 --> 01:14:07,275
in a way that no other
game had done before.
1305
01:14:07,491 --> 01:14:09,931
And the game design
itself was good.
1306
01:14:10,011 --> 01:14:14,771
But there was this artist, Jim Sachs,
who was the art lead on that project,
1307
01:14:14,851 --> 01:14:17,291
and it was his magic
1308
01:14:17,371 --> 01:14:21,011
that turned that game from
a commonplace experience
1309
01:14:21,091 --> 01:14:23,331
into something like no one
had ever seen before.
1310
01:14:23,411 --> 01:14:27,491
Jim Sachs, I can say without
any hesitation, was a genius.
1311
01:14:27,571 --> 01:14:30,491
And Defender of the Crown
would not have been a success
1312
01:14:30,571 --> 01:14:32,331
if it hadn't been for Jim Sachs.
1313
01:14:32,411 --> 01:14:34,851
When I started doing the graphics
for Defender of the Crown,
1314
01:14:34,931 --> 01:14:37,131
the tools were
extremely primitive.
1315
01:14:37,211 --> 01:14:40,011
It was still Graphicraft
and Aegis Images.
1316
01:14:40,091 --> 01:14:42,931
So I was drawing castles
one dot at a time.
1317
01:14:43,011 --> 01:14:48,611
I'd do a sketch on paper, or I'd see
magazine articles about castles.
1318
01:14:48,691 --> 01:14:50,251
And I'd have that picture
1319
01:14:50,331 --> 01:14:52,571
and then do something
like that on the screen,
1320
01:14:52,651 --> 01:14:54,011
literally one dot at a time.
1321
01:14:54,091 --> 01:14:59,971
And put about five or six dots together
and that forms a block of stone.
1322
01:15:00,051 --> 01:15:04,051
And then, at that point, you
could clip out groups of pixels
1323
01:15:04,131 --> 01:15:06,611
and stamp them in as brushes.
1324
01:15:06,691 --> 01:15:09,171
So I was doing that. Stone
after stone after stone.
1325
01:15:09,251 --> 01:15:11,011
Finally, you have one tower,
1326
01:15:11,091 --> 01:15:14,611
and then draw the grass and
everything growing up to that.
1327
01:15:14,691 --> 01:15:16,131
Very time-consuming.
1328
01:15:16,211 --> 01:15:19,011
And after about
probably two weeks,
1329
01:15:19,091 --> 01:15:22,131
I had drawn the first castle
on a hill and turned that in.
1330
01:15:22,211 --> 01:15:23,811
And it just blew them
away, of course.
1331
01:15:23,931 --> 01:15:27,691
You know, it was just so much different
than anything else that they had seen.
1332
01:15:27,891 --> 01:15:31,451
So then, they could get an idea of what
the whole game was gonna look like,
1333
01:15:31,531 --> 01:15:33,651
and started to get really
excited about the whole thing.
1334
01:15:33,731 --> 01:15:37,371
The design itself reached for
1335
01:15:37,451 --> 01:15:42,731
the kind of softer entertainment
experience that is commonplace today.
1336
01:15:42,811 --> 01:15:44,974
Everyone's comfortable
with the fact
1337
01:15:44,999 --> 01:15:48,155
that software does that
movie thing that it does.
1338
01:15:48,211 --> 01:15:51,211
But Defender of the Crown,
the Cinemaware title,
1339
01:15:51,291 --> 01:15:54,691
was one of the first
that made that a reality
1340
01:15:54,771 --> 01:15:57,691
where you were no longer
just playing a game.
1341
01:15:57,771 --> 01:15:59,611
Because it demonstrated
not just graphically,
1342
01:15:59,691 --> 01:16:03,531
visually, this was a quantum leap
beyond anything we had seen in 8-bit.
1343
01:16:03,611 --> 01:16:05,051
It was certainly that.
1344
01:16:05,131 --> 01:16:08,251
But it was the kind of game
that just wasn't even possible.
1345
01:16:08,331 --> 01:16:11,971
There was nothing quite like Defender
of the Crown before it came out.
1346
01:16:12,051 --> 01:16:15,571
And it was definitely a signal
for where video games could go.
1347
01:16:15,651 --> 01:16:18,571
I didn't think all video
games would take that route,
1348
01:16:18,651 --> 01:16:22,571
but in terms of production values
and the ability to draw in people
1349
01:16:22,651 --> 01:16:26,491
who otherwise haven't been
interested in video games before.
1350
01:16:26,571 --> 01:16:29,459
The idea that a video game could
be a mass market activity
1351
01:16:29,484 --> 01:16:30,755
and not just a niche,
1352
01:16:30,811 --> 01:16:33,291
I think Defender of the Crown
was, if not the first,
1353
01:16:33,371 --> 01:16:35,251
then one of the very
first to signal that.
1354
01:16:48,931 --> 01:16:52,291
When the Amiga 1000 came off
the manufacturing line,
1355
01:16:52,811 --> 01:16:56,971
most of us were... "Amazed"
is the wrong word.
1356
01:16:57,051 --> 01:16:59,331
"Distressed" was a better word,
1357
01:16:59,451 --> 01:17:03,491
at what appeared to be
wholly inadequate marketing
1358
01:17:03,571 --> 01:17:05,011
on the part of Commodore.
1359
01:17:05,091 --> 01:17:08,971
They didn't really have a good focus, and
I think part of that was the fact that
1360
01:17:09,051 --> 01:17:12,171
the Amiga computer was so capable
of doing almost anything.
1361
01:17:12,251 --> 01:17:13,521
Unfortunately,
1362
01:17:13,546 --> 01:17:17,355
with the loss of the leadership of
Jack Tramiel that very same year,
1363
01:17:17,411 --> 01:17:21,051
Commodore was a little bit lost
as to what direction to take.
1364
01:17:21,131 --> 01:17:24,771
Their actions basically said, "We
don't understand what we got here."
1365
01:17:24,851 --> 01:17:28,491
They were shipping
containerloads of Commodore 64s.
1366
01:17:28,571 --> 01:17:31,731
They were shipping high volume
to these mass merchants.
1367
01:17:31,811 --> 01:17:33,388
And then all of a sudden,
1368
01:17:33,413 --> 01:17:37,195
along comes a good buy in
buying the Amiga technology,
1369
01:17:37,251 --> 01:17:40,931
because somebody had the vision to
go after the Macintosh business
1370
01:17:41,011 --> 01:17:44,371
and the business side
of the channels,
1371
01:17:44,451 --> 01:17:48,171
but nobody in the company
really had the experience.
1372
01:17:48,251 --> 01:17:51,931
They just didn't know how to market
any longer a computer like this
1373
01:17:52,011 --> 01:17:54,171
to that computer-based trait.
1374
01:17:54,251 --> 01:17:57,051
They really only understood
a no-mass market.
1375
01:17:57,131 --> 01:18:01,251
And the other part of it is that they
yanked the development, a support,
1376
01:18:01,331 --> 01:18:03,131
that had to be out there
in order to get software,
1377
01:18:03,211 --> 01:18:04,812
a meaningful software,
done in this thing.
1378
01:18:05,092 --> 01:18:07,652
They were so used to
the software community
1379
01:18:07,732 --> 01:18:13,172
going and fulfilling the Commodore
64 gaming and productivity software,
1380
01:18:13,252 --> 01:18:16,212
that they never really programmed
them for the conformity
1381
01:18:16,292 --> 01:18:18,492
of dealing with the
Amiga technology.
1382
01:18:18,572 --> 01:18:21,012
Commodore 64 software was
a grass-roots effort.
1383
01:18:22,012 --> 01:18:25,292
Software developers out in the field
went and did what they wanted to do.
1384
01:18:25,372 --> 01:18:27,412
Sometimes without the
help of Commodore.
1385
01:18:27,492 --> 01:18:29,092
Wasn't that easy to
do on the Amiga.
1386
01:18:29,172 --> 01:18:31,052
You needed the books. You
needed some training.
1387
01:18:31,132 --> 01:18:33,652
You needed some support
back from the company.
1388
01:18:33,732 --> 01:18:35,572
And Commodore didn't provide it.
1389
01:18:35,652 --> 01:18:39,972
Almost all the first-line software
that came out of that machine
1390
01:18:40,492 --> 01:18:45,172
was written by internal Amiga guys who
just basically sat down and wrote it.
1391
01:18:45,852 --> 01:18:48,132
Because they understood we had
to have these applications,
1392
01:18:48,212 --> 01:18:50,972
otherwise we had a nice
demo, but that was it.
1393
01:18:51,052 --> 01:18:54,132
We travelled around to 30
cities, launching the Amiga.
1394
01:18:54,212 --> 01:18:56,612
And we had everybody
ready for it.
1395
01:18:56,692 --> 01:18:57,852
But then, when we went home,
1396
01:18:57,932 --> 01:19:01,612
we found out they had already
had a conversation with Kmart
1397
01:19:01,892 --> 01:19:03,633
and Wal-Mart, and some
of these other guys
1398
01:19:03,658 --> 01:19:05,236
who were just used to selling numbers,
1399
01:19:05,292 --> 01:19:08,301
and they could care less
about support for the people
1400
01:19:08,326 --> 01:19:10,276
who wanted to do productivity.
1401
01:19:10,332 --> 01:19:12,772
They just wanted to
sell tons of games.
1402
01:19:13,212 --> 01:19:15,372
But again, that's all they knew.
1403
01:19:15,452 --> 01:19:18,012
Their experience had said,
"Hey, we'll get started,
1404
01:19:18,092 --> 01:19:19,852
"and then we'll take
it to the mass market,
1405
01:19:19,932 --> 01:19:22,372
"and we'll have another
Commodore 64 on our hands."
1406
01:19:23,252 --> 01:19:25,212
It wasn't a Commodore 64.
1407
01:19:25,292 --> 01:19:29,732
So, you know, to market it like that, I
mean, you just flunked Marketing 101.
1408
01:19:30,252 --> 01:19:32,892
And that's where we got lost.
1409
01:19:32,972 --> 01:19:35,292
We had no way to
sell that product.
1410
01:19:35,372 --> 01:19:39,372
All we had to do was give
it to the mass merchant,
1411
01:19:39,452 --> 01:19:42,332
and the mass merchant would end
up sending back the product
1412
01:19:42,412 --> 01:19:43,953
when the customer returned it to them,
1413
01:19:43,978 --> 01:19:45,716
because they didn't
know how to boot it up.
1414
01:19:45,972 --> 01:19:49,332
The ethos of Commodore,
it never had a plan,
1415
01:19:49,412 --> 01:19:52,412
so therefore, it never
questioned what was happening.
1416
01:19:52,492 --> 01:19:55,612
They stumbled from crisis
to crisis to crisis,
1417
01:19:55,692 --> 01:19:58,492
and just firefighting more time
than they were in planning.
1418
01:19:58,572 --> 01:20:01,372
After the west coast
guys left Commodore,
1419
01:20:01,452 --> 01:20:03,652
Commodore had to turn to
their own internal engineers
1420
01:20:03,732 --> 01:20:06,372
to continue development
of the Amiga system.
1421
01:20:06,452 --> 01:20:10,012
And so, what they said was,
"We're gonna go both ways.
1422
01:20:10,092 --> 01:20:14,492
"We're gonna have an Amiga computer
that's really aimed for business.
1423
01:20:14,572 --> 01:20:18,852
"It's gonna be very high-end, even
higher-end than the Amiga 1000 was.
1424
01:20:18,932 --> 01:20:21,812
"And we're also gonna
do a lower-end Amiga
1425
01:20:21,892 --> 01:20:24,332
"that's gonna be a
Commodore 64 replacement."
1426
01:20:24,892 --> 01:20:28,892
And so that's how the Amiga 500
came about and the Amiga 2000.
1427
01:20:29,612 --> 01:20:32,825
You are about to step into a
brave new world of power,
1428
01:20:32,850 --> 01:20:34,836
performance and productivity,
1429
01:20:34,892 --> 01:20:38,732
made possible by the new Commodore
Amiga 500 home computer.
1430
01:20:38,812 --> 01:20:41,932
Sit back and get set for
the ride of your life.
1431
01:20:44,492 --> 01:20:47,372
I am the Commodore Amiga 500.
1432
01:20:47,452 --> 01:20:48,612
Why do the A500?
1433
01:20:48,692 --> 01:20:50,892
I think the big idea there
1434
01:20:50,972 --> 01:20:54,132
was to make something that
Commodore understood better.
1435
01:20:54,212 --> 01:20:57,332
You know, Commodore was never that
good at selling higher-end systems.
1436
01:20:57,412 --> 01:21:00,452
And the A500 sort of hit
1437
01:21:00,532 --> 01:21:05,052
the same exact market
spot that the C128 had.
1438
01:21:05,132 --> 01:21:08,572
It was... You know, it was something
that a Commodore fan would recognise.
1439
01:21:08,652 --> 01:21:12,572
It was kind of what people thought about
home computers, at least in the '80s.
1440
01:21:12,692 --> 01:21:17,052
So, my recollection of the
origin of the A500 was
1441
01:21:17,132 --> 01:21:21,852
Gerard Bucas asked Jeff
Porter, George Robbins and I
1442
01:21:21,932 --> 01:21:26,692
to look at the A1000 and see
if we could cost reduce it.
1443
01:21:26,852 --> 01:21:30,132
So we had the schematics
that Dave Needle had done,
1444
01:21:30,212 --> 01:21:34,772
and we just decided the things that
were gonna reduce the cost were
1445
01:21:34,852 --> 01:21:40,172
getting rid of the writable control store
and putting it into a singular case,
1446
01:21:40,252 --> 01:21:41,892
and having a brick power supply.
1447
01:21:42,172 --> 01:21:44,652
And we looked at the Agnus
chip in particular,
1448
01:21:44,732 --> 01:21:47,412
which ended up getting
some stuff rolled into it.
1449
01:21:47,812 --> 01:21:52,452
And it was a big cost reduction. I mean,
the A1000 case was very expensive.
1450
01:21:52,532 --> 01:21:54,252
The lack of integration,
a lot of those...
1451
01:21:54,332 --> 01:21:58,212
All those separate chips that got
dramatically reduced with the Fat Agnus
1452
01:21:58,292 --> 01:21:59,612
reduced the cost of it.
1453
01:21:59,692 --> 01:22:03,812
It was really just, "Let's deliver
the same level of technology,
1454
01:22:03,892 --> 01:22:06,879
"but, you know, mechanically,
electronically,
1455
01:22:06,904 --> 01:22:08,916
whatever we can, cut the cost,
1456
01:22:08,972 --> 01:22:10,772
"so that we can make something
1457
01:22:10,797 --> 01:22:13,796
that Commodore people
know what to do with."
1458
01:22:14,132 --> 01:22:18,412
Jeff and I took that proposal
to a meeting with Jay Miner,
1459
01:22:18,492 --> 01:22:20,932
and we showed the factoring
that we wanted to do.
1460
01:22:21,012 --> 01:22:23,732
There was some debate as to whether
the clock stuff was gonna work,
1461
01:22:23,812 --> 01:22:26,412
but Jay Miner was like, "No.
That should work," you know.
1462
01:22:26,492 --> 01:22:29,492
And that was... It was cool meeting him.
I had never met him before.
1463
01:22:29,572 --> 01:22:33,292
He was very much
professional about
1464
01:22:33,372 --> 01:22:39,292
assessing whether what we were proposing
made sense technically speaking.
1465
01:22:39,372 --> 01:22:43,412
I'd been advised that they
were producing an A500,
1466
01:22:43,492 --> 01:22:46,212
that it was going to be aimed
at the consumer market.
1467
01:22:46,292 --> 01:22:48,092
And as soon as it arrived,
1468
01:22:48,117 --> 01:22:52,757
it definitely lived up to all
of our expectations and beyond.
1469
01:22:52,813 --> 01:22:56,293
Because the capabilities of
it were equally as good as
1470
01:22:56,373 --> 01:22:58,613
the majority of things
you could do on the 1000
1471
01:22:58,693 --> 01:23:01,813
at probably 25% of the
1000 price at that time.
1472
01:23:01,893 --> 01:23:05,053
I'm actually very proud of that
machine, cos I think it...
1473
01:23:05,133 --> 01:23:08,733
I thought it preserved
the spirit of the Amiga
1474
01:23:09,133 --> 01:23:13,893
while making it much more
available, in terms of price.
1475
01:23:13,973 --> 01:23:17,773
We were a consumer company
selling game computers,
1476
01:23:17,853 --> 01:23:21,773
and it doesn't mean that should be the
only thing Commodore was, but that...
1477
01:23:21,853 --> 01:23:23,693
Everyone knew that's
what our strength was.
1478
01:23:23,773 --> 01:23:29,013
The thing about the 500 was that
it was very clearly a realisation
1479
01:23:29,093 --> 01:23:30,773
that there is a games market,
1480
01:23:30,853 --> 01:23:33,643
and we need to put something out
that people can play games on,
1481
01:23:33,668 --> 01:23:34,597
and that was it.
1482
01:23:35,053 --> 01:23:36,933
So it served as a
great games machine,
1483
01:23:37,013 --> 01:23:38,533
and as a really good
development machine as well.
1484
01:23:38,613 --> 01:23:41,613
But I think that was a case
of Commodore realising
1485
01:23:41,693 --> 01:23:45,253
they had to directly address
the market that they created.
1486
01:24:13,773 --> 01:24:15,933
Using the Amiga for the first
time was a revelation.
1487
01:24:16,013 --> 01:24:17,933
It was like a veil
had been lifted.
1488
01:24:18,013 --> 01:24:22,453
It not only allowed us to dream,
it allowed us to dream big.
1489
01:24:34,013 --> 01:24:37,573
People who do game development
and some application development
1490
01:24:37,653 --> 01:24:39,853
can look at a PC or other machines
1491
01:24:39,933 --> 01:24:41,819
and see how much work it takes
1492
01:24:41,844 --> 01:24:45,237
to get the machine to do
what you want it to do,
1493
01:24:45,293 --> 01:24:49,893
and how easy it is to get the Amiga
to do what you want it to do.
1494
01:24:49,973 --> 01:24:51,933
So your energy and your time
1495
01:24:52,013 --> 01:24:55,933
are not spent on tricking the machine
to produce a piece of graphics.
1496
01:24:56,013 --> 01:25:01,213
They're spent on your invention
and your art and your creativity.
1497
01:25:01,293 --> 01:25:02,653
The goal that Jay and I had
1498
01:25:02,733 --> 01:25:07,133
was to advance the state of the art
10 times beyond the competition.
1499
01:25:07,213 --> 01:25:10,653
And when you advance the state
of the art sufficiently,
1500
01:25:11,133 --> 01:25:13,564
you get into the realm where
you're doing something
1501
01:25:13,589 --> 01:25:15,317
that people find completely new.
1502
01:25:15,373 --> 01:25:19,333
It expands their capability to
do things you can't do before
1503
01:25:19,413 --> 01:25:22,733
with 10 times more horsepower.
In some cases, even more.
1504
01:25:22,813 --> 01:25:24,163
Game developers now,
1505
01:25:24,188 --> 01:25:28,237
who typically might have just
been writing assembly code
1506
01:25:28,293 --> 01:25:32,453
or were doing as much as they can
just to get the hardware to do stuff,
1507
01:25:32,533 --> 01:25:34,693
all of a sudden,
they had a computer
1508
01:25:34,773 --> 01:25:37,693
that basically would do
most of the work for them.
1509
01:25:37,773 --> 01:25:39,573
There was the graphics chips
1510
01:25:39,653 --> 01:25:42,533
that were doing the blitting and
the moving of the graphics.
1511
01:25:42,613 --> 01:25:45,893
There were sprites that would just
appear where you wanted them to appear.
1512
01:25:45,973 --> 01:25:47,093
Multi-colour sprites.
1513
01:25:47,173 --> 01:25:51,373
You could do the play field animation.
You could do play field scrolling.
1514
01:25:51,453 --> 01:25:55,773
You could do simulated 3D perspective
stuff by using differential scrolling.
1515
01:25:55,853 --> 01:26:01,693
More colours using the run-length
compression in the Hold-and-Modify.
1516
01:26:01,773 --> 01:26:05,453
A multi-channel sampled audio
instead of beeps and boops.
1517
01:26:05,533 --> 01:26:09,173
So if you're a game developer,
and you saw the opportunity
1518
01:26:09,253 --> 01:26:11,282
to do what you could
with the Amiga
1519
01:26:11,307 --> 01:26:14,237
to advance the state of
your gaming creativity,
1520
01:26:14,293 --> 01:26:16,853
all of a sudden, this
gave you a new tool.
1521
01:26:32,173 --> 01:26:36,333
So it really appealed
to the creative edge.
1522
01:26:36,413 --> 01:26:38,453
That was what the
Amiga was about.
1523
01:26:38,533 --> 01:26:41,213
That was actually the slogan, was
that it gave you the creative edge.
1524
01:26:41,293 --> 01:26:43,893
And it really did. And
it took all the people
1525
01:26:43,973 --> 01:26:48,213
that were not just bland PCers that
just want to do PC-types of stuff,
1526
01:26:48,293 --> 01:26:50,533
but it just opened up
this whole new world.
1527
01:26:50,613 --> 01:26:52,973
The first time I saw it,
I was just blown away.
1528
01:26:53,053 --> 01:26:57,013
It was difficult to believe
just what a huge leap it was.
1529
01:26:57,093 --> 01:27:02,693
It just felt like you were just touching
science fiction, it was so advanced.
1530
01:27:02,773 --> 01:27:06,653
When it comes to the Amiga, the
world was really your oyster.
1531
01:27:06,733 --> 01:27:08,053
It really was...
1532
01:27:08,133 --> 01:27:09,033
It widened my world.
1533
01:27:09,058 --> 01:27:11,757
Cos I thought, "Well, we can
do anything we want to do."
1534
01:27:14,053 --> 01:27:15,093
So my mind just exploded.
1535
01:27:15,173 --> 01:27:17,613
Amiga was so smooth,
you know what I mean?
1536
01:27:17,693 --> 01:27:18,853
It was like a Porsche.
1537
01:27:20,973 --> 01:27:25,413
It had Copper. It had
this amazing sound chip.
1538
01:27:25,493 --> 01:27:26,893
Beautiful colours.
1539
01:27:26,973 --> 01:27:31,053
It was very fast. It was a
better machine all round.
1540
01:27:31,693 --> 01:27:35,413
And you could tell from the
games that were coming out.
1541
01:27:35,493 --> 01:27:37,493
To me, machines are machines,
1542
01:27:37,573 --> 01:27:39,934
and all I talk about with machines
is what's wrong with them.
1543
01:27:40,494 --> 01:27:42,974
I just only ever see
problems in machines.
1544
01:27:43,054 --> 01:27:45,755
Things that they're stopping me
from doing more efficiently,
1545
01:27:45,780 --> 01:27:46,798
that I want to do.
1546
01:27:47,214 --> 01:27:50,334
But the Amiga, actually, of all
of the machines I've worked on,
1547
01:27:50,414 --> 01:27:52,249
was the one which gave me the most
1548
01:27:52,274 --> 01:27:55,158
of what you wanted to deliver
the most painlessly.
1549
01:27:55,214 --> 01:27:57,174
From a designer's point of view,
it was a brilliant machine.
1550
01:27:57,254 --> 01:27:59,374
It was very accessible.
1551
01:27:59,454 --> 01:28:01,534
The programmers learned to get
very, very skilful at it.
1552
01:28:01,614 --> 01:28:04,174
But they didn't struggle too
much to get up and running.
1553
01:28:04,454 --> 01:28:06,454
So, still, in those days,
1554
01:28:07,014 --> 01:28:12,094
you could spend 75% of making the game
development time on making the game,
1555
01:28:12,174 --> 01:28:17,134
and 25% on doing the structure and
stuff, the routines to make it work.
1556
01:28:17,214 --> 01:28:19,614
What the Amiga did is
it inspired people
1557
01:28:19,694 --> 01:28:22,134
to explore the boundaries of
what the machine could do.
1558
01:28:22,214 --> 01:28:24,894
There was so much hardware in there,
compared to the other machines,
1559
01:28:24,974 --> 01:28:26,075
that you could play around with,
1560
01:28:26,100 --> 01:28:27,958
and there was so much
sneaky stuff you could do.
1561
01:28:28,014 --> 01:28:29,734
There was the
Hold-and-Modify mode,
1562
01:28:29,814 --> 01:28:32,894
and there was the weird modes where
it only had a 32-colour palette,
1563
01:28:32,974 --> 01:28:36,654
but you could get
32 more colours
1564
01:28:36,734 --> 01:28:38,574
that were basically half as
bright versions of that.
1565
01:28:38,654 --> 01:28:41,494
And so, it does inspire
people to get into the idea
1566
01:28:41,519 --> 01:28:44,278
that they're gonna have to explore
the different corners of stuff.
1567
01:28:44,574 --> 01:28:45,654
In the beginning,
1568
01:28:45,734 --> 01:28:51,054
if you wanted to put bitmapped
graphics onto a screen,
1569
01:28:51,134 --> 01:28:53,054
you'd have to create them,
1570
01:28:53,134 --> 01:28:56,894
you'd have to use the
computer, the computer's CPU,
1571
01:28:56,974 --> 01:29:00,134
to actually draw those
pixels onto the screen.
1572
01:29:00,214 --> 01:29:01,494
And that would take time,
1573
01:29:01,574 --> 01:29:05,054
and while the computer was doing that,
it couldn't be doing anything else.
1574
01:29:05,134 --> 01:29:08,654
And very often, in the early games, Jet
Set Willy is a good example of that,
1575
01:29:08,734 --> 01:29:11,774
nearly all of the time that
the computer was spending
1576
01:29:11,854 --> 01:29:14,494
was spent drawing
pixels onto the screen
1577
01:29:14,574 --> 01:29:17,414
and that left very little
time left for anything else.
1578
01:29:17,494 --> 01:29:19,454
What a blitter does,
1579
01:29:19,534 --> 01:29:22,934
is it says, "Hey, I'm really good at this.
I'm really fast.
1580
01:29:23,014 --> 01:29:27,294
"I can take a bunch of pixels, which
correspond to an image from one place,
1581
01:29:27,374 --> 01:29:30,334
"combine them in fancy ways
with another bunch of pixels,
1582
01:29:30,414 --> 01:29:35,614
"like a mask or a stencil from another
place, and put them onto the screen,
1583
01:29:35,694 --> 01:29:39,214
"in whatever way you want in
any number of combinations,
1584
01:29:39,294 --> 01:29:40,654
"to form a final image,
1585
01:29:40,734 --> 01:29:44,454
"and I can do this 10 times
faster, 20 times faster,
1586
01:29:44,534 --> 01:29:45,854
"than the processor can do it."
1587
01:29:45,934 --> 01:29:50,374
So what that meant was, the processor
was free to do lots of other things,
1588
01:29:50,454 --> 01:29:52,694
like AI for example,
like collisions,
1589
01:29:52,774 --> 01:29:57,934
and the blitter allowed you to create an
immense amount of detail in the display
1590
01:29:58,214 --> 01:30:00,374
in a fraction of the time
that it used to take.
1591
01:30:00,454 --> 01:30:04,014
And the Copper lists allowed
us to change colours,
1592
01:30:04,094 --> 01:30:08,614
and shift things left and right slightly,
and do all these crazy things.
1593
01:30:08,934 --> 01:30:11,894
And we built a lot of the
games around these effects.
1594
01:30:12,054 --> 01:30:15,934
It's like, we could scroll
things and move them
1595
01:30:16,014 --> 01:30:18,414
without even really having
to put any effort in.
1596
01:30:18,494 --> 01:30:21,734
A lot of the hardware in there
is very specifically aimed
1597
01:30:21,814 --> 01:30:26,614
at the kind of things that we as game
designers and game producers require,
1598
01:30:26,694 --> 01:30:28,374
or certainly did back in the day.
1599
01:30:28,454 --> 01:30:32,574
To try and replicate the effects that
you get in arcade machines of the day,
1600
01:30:32,654 --> 01:30:35,094
you needed very powerful
hardware scrolling.
1601
01:30:35,174 --> 01:30:36,638
You needed sprite systems,
1602
01:30:36,663 --> 01:30:39,758
ways of moving objects in
front of other objects,
1603
01:30:39,814 --> 01:30:41,047
and obscuring backgrounds
1604
01:30:41,072 --> 01:30:43,438
and restoring backgrounds
quickly, easily,
1605
01:30:43,494 --> 01:30:44,560
and freeing up the processor
1606
01:30:44,585 --> 01:30:46,678
to do the main game loop, as it were.
1607
01:30:46,734 --> 01:30:51,494
So there was a lot of hardware in there
that you could see precious little use
1608
01:30:51,574 --> 01:30:54,414
for anything else other than games
or graphics demos, to be honest.
1609
01:30:54,494 --> 01:30:56,374
So it was a dream
machine, really,
1610
01:30:56,454 --> 01:30:59,494
because it really felt like it
had been created specifically
1611
01:30:59,574 --> 01:31:04,254
to produce the kind of games
that you saw in the arcades
1612
01:31:04,334 --> 01:31:06,134
and the kind of effects that
you saw in the arcades.
1613
01:31:06,214 --> 01:31:08,779
I think the thing that impressed
me the most about the Amiga,
1614
01:31:08,804 --> 01:31:09,878
besides the graphics,
1615
01:31:09,934 --> 01:31:12,414
was there was an actual
operating system on it.
1616
01:31:12,494 --> 01:31:14,614
Coming from the Commodore 64,
1617
01:31:14,694 --> 01:31:17,974
where you got a little prompt and you
could type in some BASIC commands,
1618
01:31:18,054 --> 01:31:19,734
the Amiga had a real OS.
1619
01:31:19,814 --> 01:31:23,894
There were files, and you could do a
shell and all that kind of stuff.
1620
01:31:23,974 --> 01:31:26,254
To me, that was very
interesting about the Amiga.
1621
01:31:26,334 --> 01:31:28,694
I think the biggest thing of all
1622
01:31:28,774 --> 01:31:31,894
was that the Amiga had a mouse.
1623
01:31:32,814 --> 01:31:36,094
So as soon as a mouse came
along, you had the freedom
1624
01:31:36,174 --> 01:31:38,316
to make the player be able to move
1625
01:31:38,341 --> 01:31:41,278
wherever they wanted
on screen immediately,
1626
01:31:41,334 --> 01:31:42,694
and that was a huge thing.
1627
01:31:42,774 --> 01:31:45,654
And that you had these two buttons,
1628
01:31:45,734 --> 01:31:48,894
fire, hold for scroll around.
1629
01:31:48,974 --> 01:31:52,494
And they had up, down, up,
down, so that's four inputs,
1630
01:31:52,574 --> 01:31:55,414
where we were only used to
one and the four directions.
1631
01:31:55,574 --> 01:31:57,454
That was incredibly important.
1632
01:31:57,534 --> 01:31:59,334
And it's even small things
to do with the mouse.
1633
01:31:59,414 --> 01:32:03,014
I remember the PC version of
Lemmings versus the Amiga one,
1634
01:32:03,094 --> 01:32:06,134
and for me, the Amiga one always
played much, much, much better.
1635
01:32:06,214 --> 01:32:08,254
And the real reason for that
1636
01:32:08,334 --> 01:32:11,774
was, actually, the Amiga
had a hardware cursor.
1637
01:32:11,854 --> 01:32:17,254
So no matter what speed your game ran
at, which was 30 frames per second,
1638
01:32:17,334 --> 01:32:19,934
the mouse moved at 60
frames per second.
1639
01:32:20,094 --> 01:32:21,774
And on the Amiga,
that was really nice.
1640
01:32:21,854 --> 01:32:25,694
You felt like you had really fine control
for when you were clicking as well.
1641
01:32:25,774 --> 01:32:28,575
Cos it could read the
click 60 times a second.
1642
01:32:28,695 --> 01:32:32,135
The PC only had
software mouse control.
1643
01:32:32,215 --> 01:32:35,015
So it was only moving the mouse
at 30 frames per second.
1644
01:32:35,095 --> 01:32:38,015
I could only register a click
30 frames per second as well.
1645
01:32:38,095 --> 01:32:40,455
For me, those two differences
are really subtle,
1646
01:32:40,535 --> 01:32:43,243
but the fact that you could run
the game at 30 frames per second
1647
01:32:43,268 --> 01:32:44,559
but move your input at 60,
1648
01:32:44,615 --> 01:32:48,455
once again, just showed how
advanced the Amiga was.
1649
01:32:48,535 --> 01:32:50,495
And just smart things
about doing things like,
1650
01:32:50,575 --> 01:32:53,095
"We're gonna make it so we
have a hardware mouse cursor,"
1651
01:32:53,535 --> 01:32:56,535
to me, it's the small things which
just show the genius of the team.
1652
01:32:56,615 --> 01:32:59,735
There were suddenly all kinds of
games that were made possible
1653
01:32:59,815 --> 01:33:04,175
by not being restricted by just the eight
cardinal directions on a joystick.
1654
01:33:04,255 --> 01:33:06,895
The ability just to navigate
a mouse around the screen
1655
01:33:06,975 --> 01:33:09,135
just opened up all kinds
of new possibilities.
1656
01:33:25,615 --> 01:33:28,615
Up until that point, I think the
transition from 8 to 16-bit
1657
01:33:28,695 --> 01:33:32,015
was the last generational
leap that we saw
1658
01:33:32,095 --> 01:33:35,375
that really allowed new
types of games to emerge.
1659
01:33:35,455 --> 01:33:38,175
Populous would not have been
possible on the Commodore 64.
1660
01:33:38,295 --> 01:33:39,895
I don't think
The Secret of Monkey Island
1661
01:33:39,975 --> 01:33:41,695
would have been possible
on the Commodore 64.
1662
01:33:41,895 --> 01:33:45,735
It revolutionised the way that
graphics looked in computer games
1663
01:33:45,815 --> 01:33:46,855
overnight, literally.
1664
01:33:48,015 --> 01:33:51,975
And it gave us so many
options and so many new ways
1665
01:33:52,055 --> 01:33:56,655
to look at how you could
realise a scene in a game.
1666
01:33:56,815 --> 01:33:59,975
It opened up all
kinds of avenues
1667
01:34:00,055 --> 01:34:03,015
to cinematic storytelling
and cutscenes
1668
01:34:03,095 --> 01:34:05,529
and all kinds of things
that we could do in a game,
1669
01:34:05,554 --> 01:34:07,239
that you could never do before.
1670
01:34:36,255 --> 01:34:39,455
It pushed game development,
1671
01:34:39,535 --> 01:34:41,975
it give it a rocket booster,
1672
01:34:42,055 --> 01:34:45,175
it give a nitro booster, and
pushed game development.
1673
01:34:45,255 --> 01:34:48,975
It accelerated ideas, people
wanting to get to work on games,
1674
01:34:49,055 --> 01:34:50,615
what you could actually do.
1675
01:34:50,695 --> 01:34:52,375
You could actually do a
lot more with a game.
1676
01:34:52,455 --> 01:34:55,815
It was such a leap
in technology,
1677
01:34:55,895 --> 01:35:01,495
even today, I find anyone who slags
off the Amiga needs a head test.
1678
01:35:01,575 --> 01:35:05,255
Because it was such a great machine.
It really was.
1679
01:35:50,735 --> 01:35:54,215
It wasn't hardship. I did
have a lot of passion for it,
1680
01:35:54,335 --> 01:35:57,375
but you weren't surviving
on passion and coffee.
1681
01:35:57,455 --> 01:35:59,855
You could actually come in
at the start of the day,
1682
01:35:59,935 --> 01:36:03,215
have some ideas in your head and you
could realise it without being stressed.
1683
01:36:03,295 --> 01:36:04,935
And that frees up...
1684
01:36:06,055 --> 01:36:09,255
Or that sort of freedom, rather,
enables you to be more creative,
1685
01:36:09,335 --> 01:36:13,975
and to push beyond just fighting against
tools and fighting against hardware.
1686
01:36:14,055 --> 01:36:16,775
You can get to where you
expected to be pretty quickly,
1687
01:36:16,855 --> 01:36:18,295
and then you can go beyond that.
1688
01:36:18,375 --> 01:36:22,255
On an Amiga, you had your mouse,
keyboard, you'd be drawing, fantastic.
1689
01:36:23,255 --> 01:36:27,495
So you've got this bigger resolution,
more colours and a palette.
1690
01:36:27,575 --> 01:36:30,735
On the 64, you had 16
colours, that was it.
1691
01:36:30,815 --> 01:36:33,335
On an Amiga, 4,096 colours.
1692
01:36:33,735 --> 01:36:36,895
Fantastic. "What colours do I need?
I'm spoilt for choice."
1693
01:36:36,975 --> 01:36:40,215
I wanted to make as many games
for the Amiga as possible.
1694
01:36:40,735 --> 01:36:43,895
And of course, we had a lot
of our own ideas for games.
1695
01:36:43,975 --> 01:36:46,895
We even went back to
our development tools,
1696
01:36:47,375 --> 01:36:51,055
and our development tools
were, at that time, PC-based.
1697
01:36:51,135 --> 01:36:54,059
And we had a really
nice Paintbox program
1698
01:36:54,084 --> 01:36:56,519
that our developers used on the PC
1699
01:36:56,575 --> 01:36:59,615
to do the graphic art
that went into the games.
1700
01:36:59,695 --> 01:37:02,855
And Tim Mott, who's a
really brilliant guy
1701
01:37:02,935 --> 01:37:06,575
that ran the technology side of
Electronic Arts for nine years,
1702
01:37:06,655 --> 01:37:09,671
it was his idea that we
take that Paintbox product
1703
01:37:09,696 --> 01:37:12,119
and turn it into a
consumer product,
1704
01:37:12,175 --> 01:37:13,775
Deluxe Paint,
1705
01:37:13,855 --> 01:37:18,056
which was easily the most
popular painting app
1706
01:37:18,136 --> 01:37:21,016
in the mid-1980s on any machine.
1707
01:37:21,256 --> 01:37:22,816
And it was very
commercially successful
1708
01:37:22,896 --> 01:37:24,696
because it was just so much
fun to screw around with it,
1709
01:37:24,776 --> 01:37:28,136
even if you weren't an artist or had
no professional reason to be using it.
1710
01:37:28,736 --> 01:37:33,296
Deluxe Paint came out for the Amiga and
it absolutely changed our industry.
1711
01:37:33,576 --> 01:37:35,096
We'd never seen
anything like it.
1712
01:37:35,176 --> 01:37:37,814
The idea that you could
grab an area of the screen
1713
01:37:37,839 --> 01:37:39,960
and pick it up and use it as a brush
1714
01:37:40,096 --> 01:37:41,856
was, frankly, astounding.
1715
01:37:42,016 --> 01:37:45,056
Nothing close to that, technically,
had ever been achieved.
1716
01:37:45,136 --> 01:37:48,136
You were watching it, not
actually believing your eyes
1717
01:37:48,216 --> 01:37:51,136
that you were able to
paint with a real bitmap.
1718
01:37:51,216 --> 01:37:52,696
It was just stunning.
1719
01:37:52,776 --> 01:37:56,056
It knew that I wanted to be able to
select things, cut and paste things,
1720
01:37:56,136 --> 01:37:58,856
move them around, change
colours once I put them down.
1721
01:37:58,936 --> 01:38:01,656
DPaint and the Amiga
was a real change.
1722
01:38:01,736 --> 01:38:05,576
I'm using this magical device
called a mouse. Brilliant.
1723
01:38:05,656 --> 01:38:07,056
You'd move it around the
screen and it's great.
1724
01:38:07,136 --> 01:38:08,736
You'd just click and
put your colour down.
1725
01:38:08,816 --> 01:38:14,096
Yeah, so first thing I did at Bitmaps
was Amiga, DPaint, Speedball 2.
1726
01:38:14,216 --> 01:38:15,256
Deluxe Paint came out
1727
01:38:15,336 --> 01:38:18,216
about halfway through my development
time on Defender of the Crown,
1728
01:38:18,296 --> 01:38:22,576
and it was a tremendous boon being
able to do things with brushes,
1729
01:38:22,656 --> 01:38:24,776
with sweeping brushes
and things like that,
1730
01:38:24,856 --> 01:38:28,416
that you couldn't do with
Graphicraft or Aegis Images.
1731
01:38:28,896 --> 01:38:34,336
You could do arcs and circles and
all kinds of interesting things.
1732
01:38:34,416 --> 01:38:38,376
You could tint, all kinds of effects
that you couldn't do before.
1733
01:38:38,456 --> 01:38:42,976
So that really speeded things
up during the development
1734
01:38:43,056 --> 01:38:44,536
and made things a lot easier.
1735
01:38:44,616 --> 01:38:46,056
And one of the great things
about Deluxe Paint was,
1736
01:38:46,136 --> 01:38:48,776
it was one of the first-ever packages
that had built-in animation.
1737
01:38:48,856 --> 01:38:52,536
You could set on
just a few frames,
1738
01:38:52,616 --> 01:38:54,856
make this little
character animate,
1739
01:38:54,936 --> 01:38:58,616
pick it up as a brush and then just
play the animation and play the brush.
1740
01:38:58,696 --> 01:39:01,056
So that it just put down
reams of these sprites.
1741
01:39:01,136 --> 01:39:04,576
And then, cos I was bored, I drew a
gun at the other end shooting them.
1742
01:39:04,656 --> 01:39:07,856
And that's where you start going, "Well,
that's funny, there's a game in that."
1743
01:39:07,936 --> 01:39:10,096
They give you DPaint,
you can export files,
1744
01:39:10,176 --> 01:39:13,016
you can incorporate those
into programs you're coding.
1745
01:39:13,096 --> 01:39:16,216
And it accelerates the rate of
development and productivity
1746
01:39:16,296 --> 01:39:19,016
of people who want to get into the
machine to use it for something.
1747
01:39:19,136 --> 01:39:24,896
It allowed me, who couldn't
draw to save his life,
1748
01:39:24,976 --> 01:39:27,856
allowed me to do
things on the screen,
1749
01:39:27,936 --> 01:39:31,576
and do them immediately, and
see the results immediately.
1750
01:39:31,696 --> 01:39:33,976
What Deluxe Paint allowed
1751
01:39:34,056 --> 01:39:37,976
was non-experts,
non-computer-experts,
1752
01:39:38,056 --> 01:39:41,616
people whose primary focus
was art and not technology,
1753
01:39:41,696 --> 01:39:44,136
to enter the domain of
video games creation.
1754
01:39:44,336 --> 01:39:45,976
It was a huge jump
1755
01:39:46,056 --> 01:39:49,456
moving from graphics on the
Commodore 64 to graphics on the Amiga.
1756
01:39:49,536 --> 01:39:52,491
It was like we'd missed
out one generation
1757
01:39:52,516 --> 01:39:54,920
and jumped to the next generation.
1758
01:39:55,016 --> 01:39:56,776
And it was fantastic.
1759
01:39:57,016 --> 01:39:59,296
It was a very powerful
piece of software,
1760
01:39:59,376 --> 01:40:01,767
and a lot of the effects you
see in modern-day software,
1761
01:40:01,792 --> 01:40:02,840
Photoshop and so on,
1762
01:40:02,896 --> 01:40:07,296
some of those effects appeared
first on Deluxe Paint.
1763
01:40:07,376 --> 01:40:11,176
So that just became the
ubiquitous piece of software
1764
01:40:11,256 --> 01:40:13,656
that we all used for
creating our sprites.
1765
01:40:13,816 --> 01:40:15,576
I loved the graphics
of the Amiga
1766
01:40:15,656 --> 01:40:18,296
for the games, for everything,
for the graphical tools,
1767
01:40:18,376 --> 01:40:23,576
but I got very caught up in the sound.
I absolutely loved the sound.
1768
01:40:55,816 --> 01:40:58,216
At the most basic level,
you had sampling.
1769
01:40:58,296 --> 01:41:02,256
Before that, it had all been synthesis,
albeit quite good synthesis,
1770
01:41:02,336 --> 01:41:04,056
on, say, the Commodore 64.
1771
01:41:04,136 --> 01:41:05,256
So, the Amiga was sampling.
1772
01:41:05,336 --> 01:41:10,856
And the Amiga had four sampling
voices, with 8-bit resolution,
1773
01:41:10,936 --> 01:41:13,136
and a lot more
memory, obviously.
1774
01:41:13,216 --> 01:41:16,856
So it opened up a new whole
way of creative freedom.
1775
01:41:16,936 --> 01:41:20,056
The only other alternative to
audio engineer on the Amiga
1776
01:41:20,136 --> 01:41:24,616
would be something like the
Akai S900 or S950 samplers,
1777
01:41:24,696 --> 01:41:26,376
or, of course, you
had the Fairlight.
1778
01:41:26,456 --> 01:41:29,496
Both of them cost thousands
of pounds at the time.
1779
01:41:29,576 --> 01:41:33,296
So, to buy an Amiga, you were
not only saving a lot of money,
1780
01:41:33,376 --> 01:41:38,216
it was enabling you to do things you
couldn't otherwise even dream of.
1781
01:41:38,416 --> 01:41:41,347
It was really bringing
professional sampling technology
1782
01:41:41,372 --> 01:41:43,360
into the hands of
everyday users.
1783
01:41:49,336 --> 01:41:53,016
Whenever I bought a new CD, I would
always sample it from beginning to end.
1784
01:41:53,096 --> 01:41:55,616
Whenever there was one
instrument exposed...
1785
01:41:55,696 --> 01:41:59,776
"The snare drum right there is exposed.
Shit, let's sample it."
1786
01:41:59,856 --> 01:42:04,217
So I would use AudioMaster to sample it,
and then I would put it in Soundtracker.
1787
01:42:04,817 --> 01:42:06,937
And I would be able to
use that snare drum.
1788
01:42:07,217 --> 01:42:10,177
Just like DJs use samplers
and all this kind of stuff.
1789
01:42:24,057 --> 01:42:26,657
We would put drums in
one of the channels,
1790
01:42:26,737 --> 01:42:29,977
the bass in another channel,
the melody in the third channel,
1791
01:42:30,057 --> 01:42:33,401
and even then, you'd have a
fourth channel for sprinkles
1792
01:42:33,426 --> 01:42:35,361
to enrich your arrangements.
1793
01:42:41,457 --> 01:42:44,457
You could not only sample drum sounds
1794
01:42:44,537 --> 01:42:47,617
and, essentially, any instrument
that you can think of,
1795
01:42:48,057 --> 01:42:49,857
but you could also sample chords.
1796
01:42:50,337 --> 01:42:54,897
So you could enhance the four channels
into more, because you would just...
1797
01:42:54,977 --> 01:42:59,297
Major chord, minor chord, and then
play that over different keys,
1798
01:42:59,377 --> 01:43:04,497
and you already have something with
one voice that sounds a lot bigger.
1799
01:43:13,617 --> 01:43:16,417
The Amiga sound chip was
solely sample-based.
1800
01:43:16,817 --> 01:43:21,097
However, you can also
sample small waveforms.
1801
01:43:21,177 --> 01:43:24,377
So, for instance, composers like
David Whittaker would do this a lot.
1802
01:43:24,737 --> 01:43:29,177
They would sample a series of square
waveforms with different widths to them
1803
01:43:29,257 --> 01:43:30,577
and then sequence them together.
1804
01:43:30,657 --> 01:43:33,577
And they could create quite rich
synthesised sounds like that.
1805
01:43:44,497 --> 01:43:48,297
What it facilitated was not
just people like Rob Hubbard,
1806
01:43:48,377 --> 01:43:50,697
who was a musician first
and a programmer second,
1807
01:43:50,777 --> 01:43:52,257
and not just people like me,
1808
01:43:52,337 --> 01:43:54,777
who is a programmer first
and a musician second.
1809
01:43:54,857 --> 01:43:56,817
But it allowed people who
weren't programmers at all,
1810
01:43:56,897 --> 01:43:58,697
had no programming ability,
1811
01:43:58,777 --> 01:44:03,377
to use an application like a tracker
to create amazing original works.
1812
01:44:03,457 --> 01:44:06,097
Soundtracker and ProTracker
and NoiseTracker,
1813
01:44:06,177 --> 01:44:07,937
that series of
programs, came out.
1814
01:44:08,017 --> 01:44:11,457
It enabled people who weren't
really educated musicians,
1815
01:44:11,537 --> 01:44:13,977
they couldn't read notes,
couldn't read sheet music,
1816
01:44:14,057 --> 01:44:15,817
enabled them to write music.
1817
01:44:16,017 --> 01:44:18,977
Because all they had to do was
put the notes in patterns,
1818
01:44:19,057 --> 01:44:22,857
which they could understand so
much easier than sheet music.
1819
01:44:22,937 --> 01:44:26,977
So it lowered the threshold for new
people to come in and create music.
1820
01:44:27,057 --> 01:44:29,737
The Soundtracker program
from Karsten Obarski
1821
01:44:29,817 --> 01:44:31,937
was a revolutionary
program for me.
1822
01:44:32,257 --> 01:44:35,097
You could actually control
the sound channels proper.
1823
01:44:35,177 --> 01:44:37,070
And do some tricks and hacks
1824
01:44:37,095 --> 01:44:40,881
just to make it sound bigger
than it actually was.
1825
01:44:40,937 --> 01:44:45,657
Because you had frame-by-frame
control of the sounds,
1826
01:44:45,737 --> 01:44:48,577
which was pretty
cool in those days.
1827
01:44:52,017 --> 01:44:56,137
With Rocket Ranger, the fist fight against
the Nazi guard was not a lot of fun.
1828
01:44:56,217 --> 01:45:00,097
But we had a sound guy, and
he stayed up late one night
1829
01:45:00,177 --> 01:45:03,097
and recorded sounds from
an old John Wayne movie,
1830
01:45:03,177 --> 01:45:05,497
digitised them and put
them into the game.
1831
01:45:05,577 --> 01:45:08,097
And all of a sudden, you'd
hit that Nazi guard
1832
01:45:08,177 --> 01:45:11,337
and you would hear something that
sounded like a John Wayne movie.
1833
01:45:11,417 --> 01:45:12,857
And it felt like you
were in the movie.
1834
01:45:12,937 --> 01:45:17,017
The sound effect made that whole
sequence so much more fun to play.
1835
01:45:21,617 --> 01:45:25,337
I think this was probably
one of the key moments
1836
01:45:25,417 --> 01:45:30,417
when the music started to really lean
in as a part of the valuable content.
1837
01:45:30,497 --> 01:45:33,897
Now, music in previous games, I'm not,
by any means, saying wasn't good.
1838
01:45:33,977 --> 01:45:36,817
I used to love a lot
of Commodore 64 music.
1839
01:45:36,897 --> 01:45:40,897
But what I'm saying is, on the hardware
level, it just became a point where,
1840
01:45:40,977 --> 01:45:44,617
"We've got to really put a lot of
attention on the music as well."
1841
01:45:44,697 --> 01:45:45,937
I remember Starglider.
1842
01:45:46,017 --> 01:45:47,257
Starglider
1843
01:45:47,337 --> 01:45:48,777
Yeah, we're singing
now, aren't we?
1844
01:45:48,977 --> 01:45:52,897
Starglider
1845
01:45:54,657 --> 01:45:57,017
I remember Starglider
having that sample,
1846
01:45:57,137 --> 01:46:00,497
which actually used a huge amount of
memory, but just for that one thing.
1847
01:46:00,577 --> 01:46:02,977
But it was very cool, very
impactful at the time.
1848
01:46:03,057 --> 01:46:05,817
By Rainbird
1849
01:46:05,897 --> 01:46:09,977
Here's just another example of the extra
memory and the faster processing power,
1850
01:46:10,057 --> 01:46:14,417
just allows you to make quite a leap up
in the quality of what you're doing.
1851
01:46:14,497 --> 01:46:20,017
It was amazing. To us, it
sounded full, powerful, varied.
1852
01:46:20,097 --> 01:46:22,417
You could do all
sorts of sounds.
1853
01:46:22,497 --> 01:46:25,857
From the techno music,
blippity-blop stuff,
1854
01:46:25,937 --> 01:46:29,377
to full arrangements, sampled
guitars, everything.
1855
01:46:29,457 --> 01:46:30,777
It was amazing.
1856
01:46:30,857 --> 01:46:35,417
And so, it was an introduction
into the world of sampling.
1857
01:46:35,497 --> 01:46:40,257
And I think that's really something that
Amiga can take a lot of credit for.
1858
01:46:40,337 --> 01:46:45,577
The sampling phenomenon really, for
me at least, started with the Amiga.
1859
01:46:45,657 --> 01:46:50,258
For me, it was the dream
of realising my music
1860
01:46:50,338 --> 01:46:53,138
in the way I had it in my head.
1861
01:46:53,698 --> 01:46:57,178
That was possible finally
with the Commodore Amiga.
1862
01:47:12,978 --> 01:47:17,338
One of the interesting developments
from launching the Amiga
1863
01:47:17,418 --> 01:47:22,098
and all the marketing activities that we
did was the growth in the pirate market.
1864
01:47:22,178 --> 01:47:24,258
Well, piracy, of course,
was a major problem,
1865
01:47:24,338 --> 01:47:26,658
and it's what drove me out
of the Commodore 64 market
1866
01:47:26,738 --> 01:47:28,978
and into the Amiga, initially.
1867
01:47:29,338 --> 01:47:32,258
And then became very
widespread on the Amiga.
1868
01:47:32,338 --> 01:47:36,098
In Germany, software piracy,
1869
01:47:36,178 --> 01:47:38,578
was rampant, absolutely rampant.
1870
01:47:38,658 --> 01:47:41,298
And I don't know why, but
it's quite the phenomenon
1871
01:47:41,378 --> 01:47:43,341
that Germans and, I believe,
1872
01:47:43,366 --> 01:47:47,082
Scandinavians tend to not
want to buy software.
1873
01:47:47,498 --> 01:47:49,498
And I never understood why.
1874
01:47:49,898 --> 01:47:54,738
So that means I got into pirated
games, pretty big time.
1875
01:47:54,818 --> 01:47:59,618
The people who were a bit more
clever, not only pirated games,
1876
01:47:59,698 --> 01:48:04,498
but they also programmed delicious
graphical and sound intros.
1877
01:48:04,578 --> 01:48:09,098
The cracktros, originally, were
this rebellious way of proving
1878
01:48:09,178 --> 01:48:10,498
how good you were at programming
1879
01:48:10,578 --> 01:48:13,018
and how good you were
at making cool effects.
1880
01:48:13,098 --> 01:48:17,218
Which you then put right in front
of your newest pirated game.
1881
01:48:18,218 --> 01:48:21,338
So, that's how pretty much
everybody in Europe started out.
1882
01:48:24,658 --> 01:48:28,018
This is going to be a
very, very big hit.
1883
01:48:28,098 --> 01:48:30,778
I think they did it mostly
just because they could,
1884
01:48:30,858 --> 01:48:33,978
as a challenge to themselves
and to the other hackers that,
1885
01:48:34,058 --> 01:48:35,938
"Who can do this first?
And who can do it right?"
1886
01:48:36,018 --> 01:48:38,978
They used the Amiga a lot more
1887
01:48:39,058 --> 01:48:43,138
and much more interestingly than
the games that then followed
1888
01:48:43,218 --> 01:48:47,018
after you clicked the left mouse
button and the actual game loaded.
1889
01:48:47,098 --> 01:48:51,378
And eventually it developed into this
competitive, creative demo scene,
1890
01:48:51,458 --> 01:48:54,298
where people were actually
just saying "Screw the games.
1891
01:48:54,378 --> 01:48:57,058
"We just want to make cool
effects and cool visuals."
1892
01:49:31,418 --> 01:49:33,338
Talking away
1893
01:49:34,218 --> 01:49:36,618
I don't know what I'm to say
1894
01:49:36,698 --> 01:49:39,378
I'll say it anyway
1895
01:49:39,658 --> 01:49:43,018
Today's another day to find you
1896
01:49:43,098 --> 01:49:45,818
Shying away
1897
01:49:45,898 --> 01:49:48,458
I'll be coming for
your love, OK?
1898
01:49:48,538 --> 01:49:52,658
Take on me
1899
01:49:52,738 --> 01:49:54,138
Take on me
1900
01:49:54,218 --> 01:49:58,378
Take me on
1901
01:49:58,458 --> 01:49:59,698
Take on me
1902
01:49:59,778 --> 01:50:04,058
I'll be gone
1903
01:50:04,138 --> 01:50:06,898
In a day or two
1904
01:50:06,978 --> 01:50:09,778
They just did amazing
things with the technology.
1905
01:50:09,858 --> 01:50:11,298
Some of the demos,
1906
01:50:11,378 --> 01:50:15,658
where you'd have spinning 3D objects
and incredible artwork in them,
1907
01:50:15,738 --> 01:50:19,498
is just an excellent creation that
these programmers were making.
1908
01:50:22,778 --> 01:50:27,698
The roots of the demo scene was in
hundreds of thousands of bedrooms
1909
01:50:28,018 --> 01:50:31,658
and the guys sitting on their
computers, making stuff.
1910
01:50:31,738 --> 01:50:34,458
And it was a wonderful thing unlike
the later video games consoles
1911
01:50:34,538 --> 01:50:37,098
that you could program
them yourself at home.
1912
01:50:37,178 --> 01:50:38,538
So it really
encouraged creativity.
1913
01:50:38,618 --> 01:50:40,818
Now, whether you were inspired
1914
01:50:40,898 --> 01:50:44,218
to try and make a demo that was a
bit like another demo you'd seen,
1915
01:50:44,298 --> 01:50:46,618
or make a game that was a
bit like a game you'd seen,
1916
01:50:46,698 --> 01:50:48,338
it didn't really make
a lot of difference.
1917
01:50:48,418 --> 01:50:51,458
It was the fact that it was
possible for you to do it yourself
1918
01:50:51,538 --> 01:50:53,818
and you had this source of
inspiration all around.
1919
01:50:53,898 --> 01:50:56,738
These guys out in Finland and Norway
and these guys in Scandinavia
1920
01:50:56,818 --> 01:51:00,538
are doing these insane demos that I think
were really, really pushing the envelope
1921
01:51:00,618 --> 01:51:02,658
of what the Amiga
was capable of.
1922
01:51:02,738 --> 01:51:06,538
I quite often saw the
Fred Fish disks.
1923
01:51:06,618 --> 01:51:07,924
They weren't so much demos,
1924
01:51:07,949 --> 01:51:11,042
they were more utilities and
tools and all the rest of it,
1925
01:51:11,098 --> 01:51:13,418
which he used to build
things and they were great.
1926
01:51:13,498 --> 01:51:17,018
They were fantastic for learning
more about the Amiga and coding
1927
01:51:17,098 --> 01:51:18,898
and other things
that you could do
1928
01:51:18,978 --> 01:51:22,698
and other aspects to the
actual computer itself.
1929
01:51:22,778 --> 01:51:25,834
Whereas, I think in Europe
there was more of a clamour
1930
01:51:25,859 --> 01:51:27,802
for the demos and the graphics
1931
01:51:27,858 --> 01:51:29,978
and the audio, really, and the
entertainment side of it.
1932
01:51:30,418 --> 01:51:33,098
We had public domain software.
1933
01:51:33,178 --> 01:51:34,618
That was just
distributed by disk.
1934
01:51:34,698 --> 01:51:37,539
We didn't have the World Wide Web. We
didn't have any of that sort of thing.
1935
01:51:37,619 --> 01:51:41,939
So, it was literally people just buying
it via mail order and getting them home.
1936
01:51:42,179 --> 01:51:46,139
The first time you ever see a picture
that you've done and submitted it,
1937
01:51:46,219 --> 01:51:48,619
and seeing it in a
gallery, in a magazine,
1938
01:51:48,699 --> 01:51:51,539
that was just my proudest day.
1939
01:51:51,619 --> 01:51:52,819
So I just kept on doing it.
1940
01:51:52,899 --> 01:51:54,739
I couldn't get it
out there enough.
1941
01:51:55,739 --> 01:52:00,179
I guess that just got noticed and
started getting people asking
1942
01:52:00,259 --> 01:52:03,379
if I could do pictures
for their whatever.
1943
01:52:03,459 --> 01:52:04,241
And, in all frankness,
1944
01:52:04,266 --> 01:52:06,363
I didn't even know what the
demo scene was back then.
1945
01:52:06,619 --> 01:52:08,939
The demo scene was a
place to be creative.
1946
01:52:09,139 --> 01:52:11,259
There was just that.
1947
01:52:11,339 --> 01:52:13,499
Creativity, that's
what it was all about.
1948
01:52:13,579 --> 01:52:16,299
There's was no, "But we
have to finish this game,"
1949
01:52:16,379 --> 01:52:20,779
or, "This music has to fit
this scene in a movie,"
1950
01:52:20,859 --> 01:52:23,539
or, "It has to fit that
scene in a TV show,"
1951
01:52:23,619 --> 01:52:25,499
or, "It has to fit
this scene in a game."
1952
01:52:26,059 --> 01:52:27,739
It was whatever we
wanted it to be.
1953
01:52:27,819 --> 01:52:32,299
The first demo, I was very much
just proving myself as a programmer
1954
01:52:32,379 --> 01:52:37,099
and trying to make a first demo
that was really well constructed.
1955
01:52:37,179 --> 01:52:39,824
I suppose one way to look at it
is it's much like graffiti art,
1956
01:52:39,849 --> 01:52:40,923
quality graffiti art.
1957
01:52:40,979 --> 01:52:43,419
That, to me, is what it is
for the games industry.
1958
01:52:43,499 --> 01:52:46,659
That is like the graffiti
artists, but they're using demos.
1959
01:52:46,739 --> 01:52:48,979
It was absolutely stunning.
It was breathtaking,
1960
01:52:49,059 --> 01:52:50,739
some of the stuff they
would come out with.
1961
01:52:50,819 --> 01:52:53,102
And yet, a lot of them
weren't that bothered
1962
01:52:53,127 --> 01:52:55,003
about being commercially
successful.
1963
01:52:55,059 --> 01:52:57,499
They wouldn't want to
turn it into a game.
1964
01:52:58,059 --> 01:53:02,459
They just wanted to be known by a funny
name with an avatar or something
1965
01:53:02,539 --> 01:53:04,459
and be famous for
doing that demo.
1966
01:53:04,859 --> 01:53:06,859
We called ourselves IFF,
1967
01:53:06,939 --> 01:53:10,499
which was supposed to be short for
International Fart Federation.
1968
01:53:11,619 --> 01:53:14,659
We dropped that name
after maybe half a year
1969
01:53:14,739 --> 01:53:18,539
and decided to call us Crusaders
instead, after a bit of a vote.
1970
01:53:18,619 --> 01:53:22,459
One of the big things about the
demo scene versus games is that
1971
01:53:22,539 --> 01:53:27,379
creating a demo certainly didn't have
the complexities and difficulties
1972
01:53:27,459 --> 01:53:29,446
of actually building a game
that had to stand there
1973
01:53:29,471 --> 01:53:30,883
and not crash and anything else.
1974
01:53:31,339 --> 01:53:33,219
Most demos don't have AI,
1975
01:53:33,299 --> 01:53:36,619
they don't have considerations
about frameworks for the player
1976
01:53:36,699 --> 01:53:38,139
and everything else.
1977
01:53:38,219 --> 01:53:40,631
So, it's a completely different
thing that you're building
1978
01:53:40,656 --> 01:53:41,963
when you're building a demo
1979
01:53:42,019 --> 01:53:44,019
and you're building a game.
1980
01:53:44,099 --> 01:53:46,099
And, you know, you have the
luxury of irresponsibility.
1981
01:53:46,179 --> 01:53:48,299
They were all great sales
pieces for the Amiga.
1982
01:53:48,379 --> 01:53:51,459
If you had friends come over,
they wanted to see your Amiga,
1983
01:53:51,539 --> 01:53:52,819
you would often not
show them the games,
1984
01:53:52,899 --> 01:53:54,659
or not as much as you would
show them the demos.
1985
01:53:55,019 --> 01:53:57,459
Because they are of course completely
unencumbered by having to build
1986
01:53:57,539 --> 01:53:59,979
any kind of game or gameplay,
1987
01:54:00,059 --> 01:54:05,419
they could just go crazy with ray tracing
graphics and raster-based graphics
1988
01:54:05,499 --> 01:54:06,659
that they were able to create.
1989
01:54:06,979 --> 01:54:09,259
I remember the famous scrolling messages
1990
01:54:09,284 --> 01:54:11,563
that were constant shout outs to
1991
01:54:11,619 --> 01:54:15,179
various other cracking crews
around Scandinavia and Europe.
1992
01:54:15,259 --> 01:54:17,699
It was, "Hey, we
send our regards
1993
01:54:17,779 --> 01:54:21,739
"to these guys, these crews,
or these groups that we like."
1994
01:54:22,219 --> 01:54:24,259
Because we exchange stuff with
them or get demos with them.
1995
01:54:24,339 --> 01:54:28,739
And we said hey to these guys, which
made no sense at the time, really,
1996
01:54:28,819 --> 01:54:30,139
or now, when you look at it.
1997
01:54:30,339 --> 01:54:36,499
People would poke fun at each other,
but it was never anything serious.
1998
01:54:36,619 --> 01:54:42,619
It was all done in the spirit of the
demo scene, is how I like to put it.
1999
01:54:42,699 --> 01:54:47,299
The first demo I remember is, at
no surprise, is the Sodan demo,
2000
01:54:48,059 --> 01:54:50,506
which kind of showed a
lot of Amiga features
2001
01:54:50,531 --> 01:54:52,923
like dual-playfield and
everything that was
2002
01:54:52,979 --> 01:54:55,819
going on in that demo and
drawing lines, 3D graphics,
2003
01:54:55,899 --> 01:54:57,899
and it kind of blew me away
that they could do it,
2004
01:54:57,979 --> 01:55:00,219
because I hadn't got
that far at that point,
2005
01:55:00,299 --> 01:55:03,939
and it just got me even more interested
and wanted to learn more about
2006
01:55:04,019 --> 01:55:06,779
the Amiga chipset, so I could
do those things as well.
2007
01:55:07,139 --> 01:55:12,259
Kefrens and the Rebels, that made
some demos that inspired me.
2008
01:55:12,739 --> 01:55:16,539
Later on it would be Scoopex
and it would be Red Sector
2009
01:55:16,619 --> 01:55:20,179
and also, especially,
Phenomena from Sweden.
2010
01:55:20,699 --> 01:55:25,099
They had some amazing programmers
and especially musicians.
2011
01:55:25,419 --> 01:55:30,859
The guys from Crionics, working
with The Silents, Denmark,
2012
01:55:31,099 --> 01:55:35,379
on Hardwired, which was also one of
those demos that once it got put up
2013
01:55:35,459 --> 01:55:41,019
kind of moved the bar to a whole
different level for what people
2014
01:55:41,099 --> 01:55:43,219
now expected a demo to be.
2015
01:55:44,099 --> 01:55:48,459
The Budbrain Megademos, they were
great because they were very funny.
2016
01:55:48,819 --> 01:55:51,539
And there was a little bit
of a story to it as well.
2017
01:56:01,739 --> 01:56:02,739
Yo, check this out.
2018
01:56:11,139 --> 01:56:15,019
You know, my favourite demo of all
time is Mental Hangover by Scoopex.
2019
01:56:17,259 --> 01:56:21,699
You know, it was talking all about
drinking and being hungover,
2020
01:56:21,779 --> 01:56:24,459
and it had so much
attitude, you know?
2021
01:56:24,539 --> 01:56:28,460
We were kids, and we
expressed what we felt.
2022
01:56:28,540 --> 01:56:30,540
And that's what we were
feeling at the time.
2023
01:56:30,620 --> 01:56:32,820
We weren't feeling, "Let's
go make some money."
2024
01:56:32,900 --> 01:56:38,220
It was more about party or trying
to out-program each other.
2025
01:56:38,580 --> 01:56:43,740
The demos gave me freedom to actually
explore any side of myself, in composing.
2026
01:56:43,820 --> 01:56:47,820
Because you didn't have any
strict guidelines to hold on to.
2027
01:56:47,900 --> 01:56:52,460
It was actually a great time to learn,
you know, and explore yourself.
2028
01:56:58,020 --> 01:57:00,245
I was really excited about doing music
2029
01:57:00,270 --> 01:57:02,724
that somebody wanted
to use for something.
2030
01:57:02,780 --> 01:57:06,820
One this is to make a
cool-sounding music track,
2031
01:57:06,900 --> 01:57:11,140
but then to have that music track
put to some visual effects,
2032
01:57:11,220 --> 01:57:13,500
it makes the music sound
a lot cooler as well.
2033
01:57:13,980 --> 01:57:16,020
And it makes the visual
effects look better
2034
01:57:16,045 --> 01:57:18,084
when you add some cool
music to go with it.
2035
01:57:18,140 --> 01:57:20,860
So it's like they
enrich each other.
2036
01:57:26,020 --> 01:57:28,780
You could say that
there is a music style
2037
01:57:28,860 --> 01:57:31,380
that kind of is a
demo-scene music style.
2038
01:57:31,580 --> 01:57:34,420
I have not really
explored that scene much.
2039
01:57:34,500 --> 01:57:39,580
I was more interested in trying
to see how far I could push music
2040
01:57:39,660 --> 01:57:42,420
and mood, and to what
extremes I could push it.
2041
01:57:42,500 --> 01:57:49,420
And I think that's what I take
out and take with me to this day
2042
01:57:49,500 --> 01:57:54,340
try to create something you haven't
necessarily heard or try to innovate.
2043
01:57:54,420 --> 01:57:56,500
And do it as best I can.
2044
01:57:58,100 --> 01:57:59,820
Take four red capsules.
2045
01:57:59,900 --> 01:58:01,820
In 10 minutes, take two more.
2046
01:58:03,340 --> 01:58:06,820
The next step for me was
something called the demo party.
2047
01:58:07,300 --> 01:58:10,100
It was also called
the copy party,
2048
01:58:10,180 --> 01:58:13,260
because people went there to share
demos and share stuff that they had,
2049
01:58:13,340 --> 01:58:16,300
and also, let's be honest,
2050
01:58:16,380 --> 01:58:17,540
they went to copy games.
2051
01:58:17,620 --> 01:58:20,900
You basically rented a classroom
or two in schools to...
2052
01:58:20,980 --> 01:58:24,300
And it evolved from there, really,
it got bigger and bigger, obviously,
2053
01:58:24,740 --> 01:58:25,940
but at that time, that was it,
2054
01:58:25,965 --> 01:58:27,964
and it was just Commodore
Amigas everywhere.
2055
01:58:28,660 --> 01:58:34,420
The smell, the pungent smell,
almost like a mist in there.
2056
01:58:34,900 --> 01:58:39,380
It was like sweat and agony, and it's
just rows of computers everywhere.
2057
01:58:39,460 --> 01:58:41,064
We'd bring our sleeping bags
2058
01:58:41,089 --> 01:58:44,524
and stay over maybe something
like Saturday to Sunday.
2059
01:58:44,780 --> 01:58:46,580
There would be hundreds
of people there.
2060
01:58:46,660 --> 01:58:49,700
All swapping disks, copying
each other's stuff.
2061
01:58:49,860 --> 01:58:54,180
This was a way for people
that have been sending disks
2062
01:58:54,340 --> 01:58:56,900
and stuff like that to
actually meet in person.
2063
01:58:57,260 --> 01:58:59,940
And hang out, create
stuff together.
2064
01:59:00,260 --> 01:59:03,540
I remember the very first
demo party that we went to.
2065
01:59:03,620 --> 01:59:05,220
We called it a copy
party at the time.
2066
01:59:05,300 --> 01:59:09,940
There were, I don't know, 300,
400, 500 youths in a school.
2067
01:59:10,980 --> 01:59:14,580
And police showed up and
there was total panic,
2068
01:59:14,660 --> 01:59:16,220
there were people
jumping out windows.
2069
01:59:16,700 --> 01:59:18,140
Throwing disks out windows.
2070
01:59:18,780 --> 01:59:21,180
Crashing floppy disks
with their feet.
2071
01:59:21,260 --> 01:59:23,820
Trying to destroy evidence
of copying and stuff.
2072
01:59:23,940 --> 01:59:28,140
We were at one of my parties. Suddenly
the cops... Two cops show up.
2073
01:59:28,780 --> 01:59:33,140
And they say, "We hear you guys
have cracked games here and stuff".
2074
01:59:33,300 --> 01:59:35,820
And you know, the latest
games and stuff like that.
2075
01:59:35,900 --> 01:59:37,980
We're like, "It
might be possible."
2076
01:59:38,500 --> 01:59:42,460
They said, "So if I give you five disks,
can you put some of the latest games
2077
01:59:42,540 --> 01:59:44,220
"on there for me?"
2078
01:59:44,300 --> 01:59:46,740
I go, "I don't know, sure."
2079
01:59:46,900 --> 01:59:50,260
So the cop hands
me a pack of disks
2080
01:59:50,420 --> 01:59:52,100
and says, "I'll be
back in two hours.
2081
01:59:52,180 --> 01:59:55,140
"I would be grateful if you had some of
the latest games for my son on them."
2082
01:59:55,940 --> 01:59:58,180
Police still came and closed
down a lot of these parties.
2083
01:59:58,260 --> 02:00:00,900
What can you do, you know?
2084
02:00:01,020 --> 02:00:06,180
But that was the nature of it,
there was something a little bit
2085
02:00:06,540 --> 02:00:09,180
crazy about it, and we
weren't supposed to do it,
2086
02:00:09,340 --> 02:00:12,540
and we were often told that
these things could be shut down
2087
02:00:12,620 --> 02:00:15,820
by the police, and you know, don't
worry, just if it happens, it happens.
2088
02:00:16,060 --> 02:00:19,660
Somebody took a dump in some
other guy's sleeping bag.
2089
02:00:19,740 --> 02:00:22,100
He got scrubbed down.
Oh, my God.
2090
02:00:29,300 --> 02:00:32,580
There was definitely a big competitive
aspect to the demo scene.
2091
02:00:32,660 --> 02:00:36,340
I mean, the demo parties always had a
demo competition at the very end of it.
2092
02:00:36,780 --> 02:00:39,540
Where people showed off the latest
stuff that they'd been working on
2093
02:00:39,620 --> 02:00:40,620
for months.
2094
02:00:40,700 --> 02:00:44,860
Being number one, being most revered
was very much sought after.
2095
02:00:44,940 --> 02:00:47,500
Every group wanted
to be number one.
2096
02:00:47,660 --> 02:00:50,940
People would fill in a voting
form, send it to an address,
2097
02:00:51,020 --> 02:00:53,540
all of the information
was collated.
2098
02:00:53,620 --> 02:00:56,460
And the results were published
in the form of a demo
2099
02:00:56,780 --> 02:01:00,700
every month or two months, and this
was called the Crusaders Eurochart.
2100
02:01:01,100 --> 02:01:02,620
This was the spirit
of the demo scene.
2101
02:01:02,700 --> 02:01:05,500
Always trying to outdo each
other, always trying to innovate.
2102
02:01:05,700 --> 02:01:06,700
Always trying to
push things forward.
2103
02:01:06,900 --> 02:01:09,820
The technical achievements
these guys could accomplish
2104
02:01:09,900 --> 02:01:11,980
were like,
"How do they do that?"
2105
02:01:12,060 --> 02:01:13,591
Because we're developers,
2106
02:01:13,616 --> 02:01:17,165
and how do we incorporate
those effects into a game?
2107
02:01:17,261 --> 02:01:18,781
Can we use those
effects in a game?
2108
02:01:18,861 --> 02:01:21,221
So I think there was an
element of experimentation
2109
02:01:21,341 --> 02:01:23,501
that these guys did
to push the hardware.
2110
02:01:23,861 --> 02:01:25,781
To show other people
what you could do.
2111
02:01:27,141 --> 02:01:31,101
I think the games industry was
improved by the demo scene
2112
02:01:31,181 --> 02:01:33,901
for the simple reason that you
did see a lot of effects,
2113
02:01:33,981 --> 02:01:36,181
and you see a lot of techniques
2114
02:01:36,261 --> 02:01:40,461
that you probably wouldn't have come
up with unless you got inspired
2115
02:01:40,541 --> 02:01:41,541
from someone else doing it.
2116
02:01:42,061 --> 02:01:47,461
It's an interesting point to go
back and think about that era
2117
02:01:47,541 --> 02:01:49,581
in gaming history,
that Amiga era.
2118
02:01:49,661 --> 02:01:52,341
In that it did feel
very, very provincial.
2119
02:01:52,821 --> 02:01:56,381
And there was a very big difference
between what was happening in the UK
2120
02:01:56,461 --> 02:02:00,061
and in Europe, and what was
happening over in the USA.
2121
02:02:00,141 --> 02:02:02,901
And by the time we had
transitioned on to the Amiga,
2122
02:02:02,981 --> 02:02:05,701
America had really become
much more interested
2123
02:02:05,781 --> 02:02:07,421
in the Super Nintendo,
2124
02:02:07,501 --> 02:02:09,661
and the Sega Mega Drive.
2125
02:02:09,741 --> 02:02:11,261
Talk to an American
and ask them,
2126
02:02:11,341 --> 02:02:13,501
"What do you remember
about the 16-bit era?"
2127
02:02:13,781 --> 02:02:15,661
And they will say, "I
remember the Sega Genesis,"
2128
02:02:15,741 --> 02:02:17,301
"I remember the Super Nintendo."
2129
02:02:17,381 --> 02:02:20,581
If you ask a Brit what they
remember of the 16-bit era,
2130
02:02:20,661 --> 02:02:24,101
they will talk to you about the
Commodore Amiga, and the Atari ST.
2131
02:02:24,181 --> 02:02:28,101
So we had these two completely
different versions of the 16-bit era
2132
02:02:28,181 --> 02:02:29,581
on either side of the Atlantic.
2133
02:02:29,701 --> 02:02:33,621
And that's part of why, I think so many
of us, especially in Europe and in the UK
2134
02:02:33,701 --> 02:02:36,141
romanticise the
Amiga generation.
2135
02:02:36,261 --> 02:02:40,061
It's because it was the last time
that the games and the community
2136
02:02:40,141 --> 02:02:42,181
felt unique to us.
2137
02:02:42,261 --> 02:02:45,261
Before the global explosion
of gaming popularity
2138
02:02:45,341 --> 02:02:46,701
kind of brought
everyone into the mix.
2139
02:03:14,061 --> 02:03:16,181
When the Amiga 1000 came out...
2140
02:03:17,541 --> 02:03:19,421
Let me put it this way,
2141
02:03:20,861 --> 02:03:26,061
that's about the biggest surprise I
have every had in my entire career
2142
02:03:26,421 --> 02:03:28,101
in one single system.
2143
02:03:28,181 --> 02:03:30,621
It changed so many
things all at once.
2144
02:03:30,701 --> 02:03:34,061
I mean, and you ask somebody else,
they give you the same answer,
2145
02:03:34,141 --> 02:03:36,901
and give you five other
different examples.
2146
02:03:51,781 --> 02:03:54,743
I think it's quite simple
why people remember
2147
02:03:54,768 --> 02:03:57,085
the Amiga so fondly even today.
2148
02:03:57,141 --> 02:03:58,621
It's because it was
revolutionary.
2149
02:03:59,181 --> 02:04:02,061
When it came out, there
was nothing like it.
2150
02:04:02,181 --> 02:04:05,781
It wasn't a small step for
the computer generation,
2151
02:04:05,861 --> 02:04:07,421
it was a massive step.
2152
02:04:07,541 --> 02:04:08,901
This was the last machine
2153
02:04:10,381 --> 02:04:13,021
which had complicated hardware,
but it was understandable.
2154
02:04:13,101 --> 02:04:14,848
And it was documented to a level
2155
02:04:14,873 --> 02:04:17,765
where you could get down
to the individual bits
2156
02:04:17,821 --> 02:04:19,901
of hardware, you could
know everything about
2157
02:04:19,981 --> 02:04:21,781
that machine.
2158
02:04:21,861 --> 02:04:24,461
And it trained a whole
generation of people,
2159
02:04:24,541 --> 02:04:27,901
I mean, I don't think the entire
computer industry would have evolved
2160
02:04:27,981 --> 02:04:29,941
in quite the way, because
people who grew up with that
2161
02:04:30,021 --> 02:04:32,181
went on to do all the stuff
that is being done now.
2162
02:04:32,261 --> 02:04:34,101
The Amiga was the last...
2163
02:04:34,181 --> 02:04:38,101
The last time that you could just
really experiment and play around.
2164
02:04:38,181 --> 02:04:39,341
There were no real barriers.
2165
02:04:39,421 --> 02:04:44,581
And also the hardware itself, as I've
already spoken quite lovingly of,
2166
02:04:44,941 --> 02:04:48,581
was so flexible that it
allowed real experimentation,
2167
02:04:48,661 --> 02:04:52,381
and experimentation, actually, that I'm not
even sure the designers of the machine
2168
02:04:52,461 --> 02:04:53,461
had planned.
2169
02:04:53,861 --> 02:04:56,661
So you have the feeling
of empowerment.
2170
02:04:57,101 --> 02:05:02,301
To be able to do great things with
just that computer in front of you.
2171
02:05:02,381 --> 02:05:07,501
The first platform that allowed
people that were creative to get out
2172
02:05:07,581 --> 02:05:10,061
into the masses, and I just
enjoyed being a part of that.
2173
02:05:10,381 --> 02:05:12,781
The first time I saw
Jim Sachs' work,
2174
02:05:12,901 --> 02:05:16,621
I understood, immediately,
what the leap was.
2175
02:05:16,701 --> 02:05:20,301
The Amiga enabled that
entire revolution.
2176
02:05:20,421 --> 02:05:24,621
Not just graphically, but in the way
you could effectively tell a story,
2177
02:05:24,701 --> 02:05:26,821
and change the
gaming experience.
2178
02:05:26,941 --> 02:05:30,821
From one of just arcade quality, to
something a little more substantial.
2179
02:05:30,901 --> 02:05:34,061
Some of those early games, and
some of the immersive storytelling
2180
02:05:34,141 --> 02:05:35,421
that we were able to do
2181
02:05:35,501 --> 02:05:38,821
in some of those early games, I
think the repercussions of that,
2182
02:05:38,901 --> 02:05:42,501
the echoes of that are still
being heard, and felt today
2183
02:05:42,581 --> 02:05:44,301
in games that are
coming out now.
2184
02:05:44,421 --> 02:05:47,061
When people ask me why I am
still working in games...
2185
02:05:49,021 --> 02:05:52,261
It's that collaborative development
environment that you get
2186
02:05:52,341 --> 02:05:55,501
where you're working with artists,
coders, musicians, designers.
2187
02:05:55,581 --> 02:05:59,341
All in the same kind of framework, and
you're creating something together
2188
02:05:59,421 --> 02:06:02,382
that none of you as
individuals could create.
2189
02:06:02,462 --> 02:06:05,142
And it's probably the
Amiga that was the first
2190
02:06:05,222 --> 02:06:07,542
moment that happened
in my experience.
2191
02:06:07,942 --> 02:06:10,822
But once you got to the Amiga,
you could start to sell a game
2192
02:06:10,902 --> 02:06:12,502
on, "Look at these graphics."
2193
02:06:12,582 --> 02:06:17,142
And actually, the games industry
has spent the last 20 plus years
2194
02:06:17,222 --> 02:06:20,022
selling games in the
same sort of way.
2195
02:06:20,462 --> 02:06:23,822
The Amiga opened doors...
2196
02:06:25,622 --> 02:06:28,622
...for professionals
2197
02:06:29,862 --> 02:06:33,822
and professions in a way that I
don't think any other machine
2198
02:06:33,902 --> 02:06:35,902
has been able to emulate.
2199
02:06:36,662 --> 02:06:41,342
First it allowed the progression from
assembly language to C programming.
2200
02:06:41,422 --> 02:06:44,422
So programmers could afford
to be more high level,
2201
02:06:44,782 --> 02:06:48,662
and therefore, not nearly so
skilled on low level assembler.
2202
02:06:49,782 --> 02:06:54,022
The second thing it facilitated
was the entry of artists.
2203
02:06:54,102 --> 02:06:58,342
Whose primary focus was art and
not the creation of pixels.
2204
02:06:58,422 --> 02:07:02,302
And the third stream of
people it brought in
2205
02:07:02,382 --> 02:07:04,422
was musicians and composers.
2206
02:07:04,502 --> 02:07:07,873
People who could now
create music on a machine
2207
02:07:07,898 --> 02:07:10,766
that would more faithfully than not
2208
02:07:10,822 --> 02:07:13,622
allow them to realise
their efforts.
2209
02:07:13,862 --> 02:07:17,302
And we moved from a
hobbyist industry
2210
02:07:17,382 --> 02:07:20,502
to very much an industry
capable of professionalism.
2211
02:07:20,742 --> 02:07:24,022
I think that everybody of my
generation who was from Europe
2212
02:07:24,102 --> 02:07:26,622
and who is in the games
industry nowadays,
2213
02:07:26,702 --> 02:07:29,542
I would bet that they
came in via the Amiga.
2214
02:07:29,622 --> 02:07:33,622
Maybe initially, shortly,
briefly, the C64,
2215
02:07:33,782 --> 02:07:34,902
and the Atari ST,
2216
02:07:35,022 --> 02:07:37,542
but all of us moved on to
the Amiga very quickly,
2217
02:07:37,622 --> 02:07:39,062
and that's where
everybody flourished.
2218
02:07:39,142 --> 02:07:42,822
So it's absolutely crucial, and
you can ask all around the world.
2219
02:07:43,222 --> 02:07:45,502
In Japan, people would have
come via the consoles,
2220
02:07:45,582 --> 02:07:47,542
a little bit also
here in the US,
2221
02:07:47,622 --> 02:07:50,822
and the PC of course got
strong very quickly in the US.
2222
02:07:50,942 --> 02:07:54,902
But all of Europe, the game
industry veterans of today
2223
02:07:54,982 --> 02:07:56,702
have to thank the
Amiga tremendously.
2224
02:07:57,182 --> 02:08:00,382
I think it was a fundamental building
block for the modern games industry.
2225
02:08:00,502 --> 02:08:04,502
I think it was a point at which
everybody realised games could be
2226
02:08:04,582 --> 02:08:08,582
the massive business that they are
now, worth countless billions.
2227
02:08:08,662 --> 02:08:13,222
And I think it was wonderful to be
involved at the very early stages.
2228
02:08:13,302 --> 02:08:18,182
We had no clue whatsoever that the
industry would get as big as it is now.
2229
02:08:18,262 --> 02:08:20,222
It was more than
a games machine.
2230
02:08:20,302 --> 02:08:24,382
It was more than a computer, it
was many things for many people.
2231
02:08:24,462 --> 02:08:27,942
That's what made it special, I think.
You know?
2232
02:08:28,022 --> 02:08:33,102
So, it was special for us because we
could really show off our talents.
2233
02:08:33,182 --> 02:08:36,702
And, like I said, it
was special for people
2234
02:08:36,782 --> 02:08:39,502
because they could do amazing
things with it, you know,
2235
02:08:39,582 --> 02:08:42,982
in terms of music,
visuals, video editing.
2236
02:08:44,342 --> 02:08:47,342
That's the main
reason, I reckon.
2237
02:08:47,422 --> 02:08:53,022
It touched many different people
from many walks of lives.
2238
02:08:53,102 --> 02:08:54,902
We knew it was a great
graphics machine.
2239
02:08:54,982 --> 02:08:58,622
But we never saw the entire
desktop revolution coming.
2240
02:08:58,702 --> 02:09:03,262
We didn't realise that the Amiga
was going to be the device
2241
02:09:03,342 --> 02:09:07,302
that was powerful enough to
create this new industry.
2242
02:09:07,382 --> 02:09:13,062
These days, no one thinks twice about
editing video on their home computer,
2243
02:09:13,142 --> 02:09:14,582
but it was radical then,
2244
02:09:14,662 --> 02:09:17,342
it was the first machine that
allowed that kind of capability.
2245
02:09:17,422 --> 02:09:21,902
And the Amiga was designed so they
put out very good video quality
2246
02:09:21,982 --> 02:09:24,782
compared to all the other computers
that were in the market in terms of
2247
02:09:24,902 --> 02:09:28,502
the NTSC television signal
that came out of the Amiga
2248
02:09:28,582 --> 02:09:31,902
was very close to being
right on the spec.
2249
02:09:31,982 --> 02:09:35,622
So it allowed you to then
record that onto videotape
2250
02:09:35,702 --> 02:09:37,462
or to put it out over the air,
2251
02:09:37,542 --> 02:09:38,902
whatever you wanted
to do with it.
2252
02:09:38,982 --> 02:09:42,222
And that was right out of the Amiga
without any special equipment.
2253
02:09:42,302 --> 02:09:45,382
A lot of people use that
even without Video Toaster.
2254
02:09:45,462 --> 02:09:49,222
They used their Amigas for
creating video and creating audio.
2255
02:09:49,462 --> 02:09:51,822
As we speak,
2256
02:09:51,902 --> 02:09:57,102
a paradigm shift of equal magnitude
has grabbed the world of video.
2257
02:09:57,182 --> 02:09:59,142
A paradigm shift.
2258
02:09:59,222 --> 02:10:02,302
And the force behind the shift,
2259
02:10:02,382 --> 02:10:06,182
we at NewTek call
the Video Toaster.
2260
02:10:06,262 --> 02:10:07,462
Hey, that's a hot name.
2261
02:10:07,542 --> 02:10:10,662
We discovered that by
using the Amiga's video,
2262
02:10:10,742 --> 02:10:15,102
we could take advantage of all of the
Amiga's graphic scope processing.
2263
02:10:15,782 --> 02:10:17,622
The Copper and the blitter.
2264
02:10:17,702 --> 02:10:20,062
All these things, we weren't
making pictures with them,
2265
02:10:20,142 --> 02:10:22,382
we were making these
bizarre little barcodes
2266
02:10:22,462 --> 02:10:25,222
that would then control
the Video Toaster card.
2267
02:10:25,302 --> 02:10:28,102
And then there was a huge
phenomenon with 3D animation.
2268
02:10:28,182 --> 02:10:31,862
Because LightWave 3D
was just one of the,
2269
02:10:31,942 --> 02:10:34,262
what we call croutons,
in the Video Toaster,
2270
02:10:34,342 --> 02:10:36,262
these little squares
you click on.
2271
02:10:36,342 --> 02:10:38,182
It's a toast analogy.
2272
02:10:38,262 --> 02:10:40,302
Croutons, little
pieces of bread.
2273
02:10:40,382 --> 02:10:42,022
It's just my "rye"
sense of humour.
2274
02:10:42,102 --> 02:10:46,142
One of the croutons
was LightWave.
2275
02:10:46,222 --> 02:10:49,543
So you click on that,
and the screen opens up
2276
02:10:49,623 --> 02:10:51,703
into front, top, and side view,
2277
02:10:51,783 --> 02:10:53,583
and now you can make models,
you can light them,
2278
02:10:53,663 --> 02:10:56,263
and you can do 3D animation.
2279
02:10:56,343 --> 02:11:02,783
And a lot of people started to buy the
Video Toaster just for that reason.
2280
02:11:02,863 --> 02:11:06,703
And so Babylon 5,
2281
02:11:06,783 --> 02:11:10,823
SeaQuest DSV, a Spielberg show.
2282
02:11:12,303 --> 02:11:18,463
Examples of people taking LightWave,
building a big crew of animators,
2283
02:11:18,543 --> 02:11:22,383
and doing CGI on television,
which, up to that point,
2284
02:11:22,463 --> 02:11:23,863
was absolutely unthinkable.
2285
02:11:23,943 --> 02:11:25,383
The market moved up.
2286
02:11:27,663 --> 02:11:32,023
And around the time that the Amiga
500 was really, really flying,
2287
02:11:32,103 --> 02:11:34,343
was also the beginning
of the PC market.
2288
02:11:34,423 --> 02:11:36,903
PCs, they were business machines
and they were very expensive.
2289
02:11:36,983 --> 02:11:39,583
So, actually, for most people,
they couldn't even...
2290
02:11:39,663 --> 02:11:41,183
They couldn't aspire
to buying one.
2291
02:11:41,263 --> 02:11:43,183
You're talking
about ยฃ1,000 plus.
2292
02:11:43,263 --> 02:11:45,423
Cos you know they're expensive,
2293
02:11:45,503 --> 02:11:48,423
and well made because
they had metal cases.
2294
02:11:48,503 --> 02:11:52,503
Whereas, of course, the home
PCs, they were made of plastic.
2295
02:11:52,583 --> 02:11:54,263
- So they weren't very serious things.
- And on occasions,
2296
02:11:54,343 --> 02:11:55,383
woodgrain plastic as well.
2297
02:11:55,463 --> 02:11:56,623
- Yes.
- Which was wonderful.
2298
02:11:56,703 --> 02:11:59,823
- I never quite understood that.
- The Atari VCS is beautiful.
2299
02:11:59,903 --> 02:12:02,423
Give the consumer confidence,
give them a plastic computer,
2300
02:12:02,503 --> 02:12:06,623
high-tech, but make sure it looks
like your grandad's gramophone.
2301
02:12:06,703 --> 02:12:09,063
And they weren't as popular
because, let's be honest about it,
2302
02:12:09,143 --> 02:12:13,223
the PCs could not deliver
what the Amiga could deliver.
2303
02:12:13,303 --> 02:12:15,303
In terms of graphics and sound,
2304
02:12:15,383 --> 02:12:17,343
and all those wonderful
things that we already know.
2305
02:12:17,423 --> 02:12:20,823
The PC was way behind
in technology terms.
2306
02:12:20,903 --> 02:12:24,703
I think it was difficult to make
games in the early days for PC.
2307
02:12:24,783 --> 02:12:27,223
- Yeah.
- Because the colour palettes
2308
02:12:27,303 --> 02:12:29,263
were just so incredibly awful.
2309
02:12:29,343 --> 02:12:30,543
There weren't really
colours, were there?
2310
02:12:30,623 --> 02:12:32,743
They were designed for
spreadsheet annotation.
2311
02:12:32,823 --> 02:12:35,423
Basically, the graphics cards
weren't graphics cards.
2312
02:12:35,503 --> 02:12:37,661
They were designed to
make spreadsheets,
2313
02:12:37,686 --> 02:12:39,527
and word processes easier to read.
2314
02:12:39,743 --> 02:12:42,503
You could have yellow letters
or you could have blue letters
2315
02:12:42,583 --> 02:12:43,663
- or green letters.
- Yeah.
2316
02:12:43,743 --> 02:12:44,743
I mean, that was
what it was for.
2317
02:12:44,823 --> 02:12:48,743
And then we were trying to, sort
of, hack that to make monsters,
2318
02:12:48,823 --> 02:12:50,623
and warriors, and all
that kind of stuff.
2319
02:12:50,703 --> 02:12:53,863
It was really about
the PC era of games.
2320
02:12:53,943 --> 02:12:56,703
Which coincides a lot
with the rise of Amiga.
2321
02:12:56,783 --> 02:13:02,223
And I think it was more getting out
of these specialised little machines,
2322
02:13:02,303 --> 02:13:05,543
like the Atari 800,
and the Commodore 64,
2323
02:13:05,623 --> 02:13:08,743
where things were moving
into actual real computers.
2324
02:13:08,823 --> 02:13:10,783
And the Amiga was
a real computer,
2325
02:13:10,863 --> 02:13:13,383
and the PC was a real computer,
2326
02:13:13,463 --> 02:13:17,223
and these things were making
their way into people's homes
2327
02:13:17,303 --> 02:13:19,543
for reasons other than gaming.
2328
02:13:19,623 --> 02:13:23,863
So, it's like we were getting into
people's homes in this stealth way.
2329
02:13:23,943 --> 02:13:26,583
They would buy their PC,
they would buy their Amiga
2330
02:13:26,663 --> 02:13:28,623
for some "serious" reason.
2331
02:13:28,703 --> 02:13:30,703
But they'd spend all their
time playing games on it.
2332
02:13:30,783 --> 02:13:34,063
So I do think it was actually a
very, very influential time,
2333
02:13:34,143 --> 02:13:35,343
just because of that.
2334
02:13:35,423 --> 02:13:39,823
Because a lot of these things were
moving into normal people's homes
2335
02:13:39,903 --> 02:13:42,743
for other reasons, and they
were being exposed to gaming.
2336
02:13:43,583 --> 02:13:47,223
Henry Rubin, who is the
vice-president of engineering,
2337
02:13:47,303 --> 02:13:51,463
really wanted Amigas to be able
to do some kind of PC emulation.
2338
02:13:51,903 --> 02:13:54,783
That's why we had that
PC emulation program
2339
02:13:54,863 --> 02:13:57,783
when the Amiga launched, even
though it was really, really slow
2340
02:13:57,863 --> 02:13:59,423
and not very useful.
2341
02:13:59,503 --> 02:14:00,863
The emulator.
2342
02:14:00,943 --> 02:14:05,623
Which turns your Amiga computer
into an IBM personal computer.
2343
02:14:09,743 --> 02:14:13,503
They wanted to be able to
sell Amigas into businesses.
2344
02:14:13,583 --> 02:14:16,863
And there was this
checkmark that said,
2345
02:14:16,943 --> 02:14:20,143
"Is it PC compatible to be able
to sell something in businesses?"
2346
02:14:20,223 --> 02:14:22,903
So, if I said I wanted
Amiga on my desk,
2347
02:14:22,983 --> 02:14:25,063
somebody's gonna
come along and say,
2348
02:14:25,143 --> 02:14:27,943
"You know, company requires you
to do all your documentation
2349
02:14:28,023 --> 02:14:31,663
"in Microsoft Word. So you
can't have that Amiga."
2350
02:14:31,743 --> 02:14:33,227
It was interesting because, obviously,
2351
02:14:33,252 --> 02:14:34,887
people were aware that
there was a market,
2352
02:14:34,943 --> 02:14:38,263
this machine was a market, but an
alternate way of it working...
2353
02:14:38,343 --> 02:14:40,983
There was that PC emulation
card, wasn't there?
2354
02:14:41,063 --> 02:14:44,263
The KCS Power Board,
I think it was.
2355
02:14:44,343 --> 02:14:45,783
Yeah, and that was
for the Amiga.
2356
02:14:45,863 --> 02:14:49,103
There was an interesting sort of hybrid.
You've got yourself an Amiga.
2357
02:14:49,183 --> 02:14:50,823
You actually want a PC.
2358
02:14:50,903 --> 02:14:53,063
So here's a board to plug
in to get yourself a PC.
2359
02:14:53,143 --> 02:14:55,983
PC emulator plugs into the
A500's RAM expansion.
2360
02:14:56,063 --> 02:14:58,303
Then, all of a sudden, I
have my Microsoft Word.
2361
02:14:58,383 --> 02:15:02,583
Here was a solution that allowed you
to get that Amiga into that business.
2362
02:15:02,663 --> 02:15:07,863
Which seems a bit counter-intuitive
now, but it led to great things.
2363
02:15:07,943 --> 02:15:12,423
And was the beginning of one
machine needing to work on another
2364
02:15:12,503 --> 02:15:13,623
and vice versa.
2365
02:15:13,703 --> 02:15:16,423
So it's the beginning of blurring
of the edges of PC technology,
2366
02:15:16,448 --> 02:15:17,367
Amiga technology,
2367
02:15:17,423 --> 02:15:18,623
and that kind of thing.
2368
02:15:18,703 --> 02:15:22,223
It's very hard to get across
2369
02:15:22,303 --> 02:15:25,343
the extent of the impact
the Amiga had on my life.
2370
02:15:28,823 --> 02:15:34,383
I think, had it not been for the Amiga,
I wouldn't be in the industry today.
2371
02:15:35,183 --> 02:15:37,824
I think, had it not
been for the Amiga,
2372
02:15:37,904 --> 02:15:41,264
I would not have started to
learn high-level languages.
2373
02:15:41,344 --> 02:15:45,944
I would not have started to get into
graphics and audio the way that I did.
2374
02:15:46,984 --> 02:15:49,544
I think, in a lot of ways,
because of the excitement,
2375
02:15:49,624 --> 02:15:53,624
because of that
profound step change
2376
02:15:53,704 --> 02:15:55,824
in what a machine could do,
2377
02:15:57,784 --> 02:16:04,224
it opened up life in a way that I
couldn't possibly imagine before.
2378
02:16:04,304 --> 02:16:06,384
It made me an optimist.
2379
02:16:06,464 --> 02:16:10,824
It made me realise that human beings
were capable of astounding leaps.
2380
02:16:11,944 --> 02:16:16,744
And it's very hard to get that
across without sounding ridiculous.
2381
02:16:17,584 --> 02:16:22,504
But it really was... People
wait for jetpacks, right?
2382
02:16:22,584 --> 02:16:26,264
People talk about flying cars.
The Amiga was that to me.
2383
02:16:26,344 --> 02:16:30,304
There are so many people just
starting to work on the Amiga again,
2384
02:16:30,384 --> 02:16:34,104
that there are lots of games,
new games, coming out right now
2385
02:16:34,184 --> 02:16:35,664
and the quality is so amazing,
2386
02:16:35,744 --> 02:16:39,264
it's even more amazing than
commercial games in the '80s.
2387
02:16:39,344 --> 02:16:43,784
The games industry on the
mobile phones is so destroyed,
2388
02:16:43,864 --> 02:16:46,657
that I actually think that
you can make more money
2389
02:16:46,682 --> 02:16:48,488
with an Amiga game right now
2390
02:16:48,544 --> 02:16:50,344
than you can do with
an iPhone game.
2391
02:16:50,424 --> 02:16:53,944
It was an incredible
culture at Amiga.
2392
02:16:54,024 --> 02:16:57,344
These guys... They were
firing on all cylinders.
2393
02:16:57,424 --> 02:16:59,864
You know, they were all friends.
2394
02:16:59,944 --> 02:17:02,464
The hardware guys worked
with the software guys.
2395
02:17:02,544 --> 02:17:06,944
It was kind of a small,
tightly knit team.
2396
02:17:07,424 --> 02:17:10,464
And you could just tell that
there was magic happening.
2397
02:17:10,544 --> 02:17:13,824
It was the thing that I loved
the most about the Amiga was,
2398
02:17:13,904 --> 02:17:18,624
it was this wild, galloping
horse the entire time.
2399
02:17:18,704 --> 02:17:22,944
And the best you could do
was ride that baby bareback
2400
02:17:23,024 --> 02:17:24,717
and hang on to the mane and hope
2401
02:17:24,742 --> 02:17:27,968
that we're all heading in the
right direction together.
2402
02:17:28,984 --> 02:17:34,224
It was insane. It was
passion, and love
2403
02:17:34,304 --> 02:17:37,264
and belief in things that
couldn't possibly come true,
2404
02:17:37,344 --> 02:17:40,064
and yet they were coming
true, month after month.
2405
02:17:40,144 --> 02:17:42,344
Things were working the
way that we hoped.
2406
02:17:42,424 --> 02:17:45,424
It was this crazy, crazy dream
2407
02:17:45,504 --> 02:17:50,544
that a bunch of us had and that we
actually managed to turn into reality.
2408
02:17:51,344 --> 02:17:54,664
For me, it was the
opportunity to create,
2409
02:17:54,744 --> 02:17:59,104
not just multi-tasking, but also
the architecture of the Amiga
2410
02:17:59,184 --> 02:18:02,624
with dynamically loadable
libraries and device drivers,
2411
02:18:02,704 --> 02:18:05,544
and the interrupt handlers,
and all of that architecture
2412
02:18:05,624 --> 02:18:08,864
that I created during that time
2413
02:18:08,944 --> 02:18:11,224
went on to be used by
so many other people.
2414
02:18:11,304 --> 02:18:14,424
It was like the basis
of design from then on.
2415
02:18:14,504 --> 02:18:19,304
It sort of established a
platform or a way of developing
2416
02:18:19,384 --> 02:18:20,824
all of the systems that
came in the future.
2417
02:18:20,904 --> 02:18:23,304
So it was one of the first
microcomputer systems
2418
02:18:23,384 --> 02:18:25,144
to really have that
kind of architecture.
2419
02:18:25,224 --> 02:18:26,744
All the stuff that
people have done
2420
02:18:26,824 --> 02:18:29,584
with the audio and the
graphics and the video,
2421
02:18:29,664 --> 02:18:33,184
I just really feel
that I'm lucky
2422
02:18:33,264 --> 02:18:35,704
to have been at the right place
and time to be a part of that.
2423
02:18:35,784 --> 02:18:37,424
So, that's very big.
2424
02:18:37,504 --> 02:18:38,864
And the friends I've made,
2425
02:18:38,944 --> 02:18:43,024
and I'm still in contact
with a lot of the people
2426
02:18:43,104 --> 02:18:45,384
that I worked with
during that time.
2427
02:18:45,464 --> 02:18:47,424
And that's been amazing, too.
2428
02:18:47,504 --> 02:18:52,904
I look back on my contribution to
the Amiga in several ways, I think.
2429
02:18:52,984 --> 02:18:56,224
The graphics, the bouncing ball,
2430
02:18:56,304 --> 02:19:00,144
the multi-tasking layer library.
2431
02:19:00,224 --> 02:19:03,384
But also, to a certain degree,
2432
02:19:03,464 --> 02:19:07,264
trying to instil in other
developers and other users
2433
02:19:07,344 --> 02:19:13,424
the magic that could be done if you're on
a mission from God with the right family.
2434
02:19:14,944 --> 02:19:20,224
And it was incredible working with
the people that I knew there.
2435
02:19:20,304 --> 02:19:23,944
And most... All of them are
still close friends of mine.
2436
02:19:24,024 --> 02:19:27,664
My Amiga family is gonna
be my family for life.
2437
02:19:27,744 --> 02:19:30,384
There have been questions
about what we believed
2438
02:19:30,464 --> 02:19:32,784
at the time when we
were doing the machine.
2439
02:19:32,864 --> 02:19:34,664
Did we think it was
gonna come true?
2440
02:19:34,744 --> 02:19:38,624
Did we feel a force to
push ourselves forward?
2441
02:19:38,704 --> 02:19:42,864
And the answer to that
is overpoweringly yes.
2442
02:19:42,944 --> 02:19:47,784
David Morse, president of the
company, was an amazing man.
2443
02:19:47,864 --> 02:19:52,984
Jay Miner, architect of the
basic system, an amazing man.
2444
02:19:53,064 --> 02:19:55,024
Dave Morse, our fearless leader,
2445
02:19:55,104 --> 02:19:58,984
he led us through all the
trials and tribulations.
2446
02:19:59,064 --> 02:20:01,344
He kept that flame alive.
2447
02:20:01,424 --> 02:20:07,104
There was some amazing power
behind those two guys
2448
02:20:07,184 --> 02:20:12,504
that pushed us forward
through no sleep, no money,
2449
02:20:12,584 --> 02:20:15,704
no time, no parts,
2450
02:20:15,784 --> 02:20:19,264
competition that would show
up from time to time...
2451
02:20:19,864 --> 02:20:24,505
All sorts of things that would get
in our way, parts that would break.
2452
02:20:24,585 --> 02:20:30,105
And we pushed forward because
we felt in our insides
2453
02:20:30,185 --> 02:20:33,985
how amazing this whole
machine was going to be.
2454
02:20:34,065 --> 02:20:38,265
And whatever spirit Dave and
Jay had inside of them fed us,
2455
02:20:38,345 --> 02:20:39,905
and pushed us forward.
2456
02:20:39,985 --> 02:20:41,465
It was amazing.
2457
02:20:41,545 --> 02:20:45,625
An Amiga serial
number 1 still works.
2458
02:20:45,705 --> 02:20:47,425
It still runs.
2459
02:20:48,665 --> 02:20:49,945
Magic.
2460
02:20:50,945 --> 02:20:55,185
You don't get an opportunity, very
often, to be at the very threshold,
2461
02:20:55,265 --> 02:20:59,305
the very beginning of a
billion-dollar-plus product line.
2462
02:20:59,385 --> 02:21:02,705
So I can look back and
say, "Hey, I was there.
2463
02:21:02,785 --> 02:21:05,625
"I was there when...
I walked in the door
2464
02:21:05,705 --> 02:21:10,465
"and we had two chairs, a card
table, and a coffeepot, and a dog."
2465
02:21:10,905 --> 02:21:14,185
Jay Miner had a dog.
2466
02:21:14,265 --> 02:21:16,505
Jay's dog was named Mitchy.
2467
02:21:16,585 --> 02:21:20,785
And Mitchy was the
mascot of the office.
2468
02:21:20,865 --> 02:21:26,265
And in the beginning days of the Amiga,
they designed the initial hardware
2469
02:21:26,345 --> 02:21:30,665
using pencils and
erasers and paper.
2470
02:21:30,745 --> 02:21:35,385
They would draw gates on the paper and
erase those gates and draw new ones,
2471
02:21:35,465 --> 02:21:37,665
and connect the lines together.
2472
02:21:37,745 --> 02:21:40,865
And this was state-of-the-art
of that day,
2473
02:21:40,945 --> 02:21:44,985
that you would design hardware
on paper with pencils.
2474
02:21:45,065 --> 02:21:48,625
And I would sit and watch Jay
Miner designing hardware.
2475
02:21:48,705 --> 02:21:52,585
And people say that it wasn't really
Jay that was the father of the Amiga,
2476
02:21:52,665 --> 02:21:53,945
that it was actually
Mitchy, his dog.
2477
02:21:54,025 --> 02:21:56,185
And I'm here to tell
you it's a true story.
2478
02:21:56,265 --> 02:21:57,305
I would watch.
2479
02:21:57,385 --> 02:22:00,585
Jay would sit there, and he'd
draw a gate on a sheet of paper,
2480
02:22:00,665 --> 02:22:03,505
and he'd look over at
Mitchy and Mitchy'd go...
2481
02:22:03,905 --> 02:22:06,905
And so he'd erase that and he'd draw it
upside down and with different lines,
2482
02:22:06,985 --> 02:22:08,105
and Mitchy'd go...
2483
02:22:08,825 --> 02:22:10,585
And so it was, "OK!" You know...
2484
02:22:13,705 --> 02:22:16,705
Amiga computer,
designed by a dog.
2485
02:23:48,145 --> 02:23:49,585
Where am I?
2486
02:25:08,785 --> 02:25:11,906
It is the best machine that is
around anywhere in the world.
2487
02:25:11,986 --> 02:25:13,426
The professional
machine of the future.
2488
02:25:23,466 --> 02:25:25,626
- How would I describe it?
- I think it's fantastic.
2489
02:25:25,706 --> 02:25:27,546
- Awesome.
- It's gonna skyrocket.
2490
02:25:27,626 --> 02:25:29,186
Only Amiga makes it possible.
2491
02:25:55,826 --> 02:26:00,626
Amiga's got the guts to do things
that you can't do on other hardware.
2492
02:26:00,706 --> 02:26:02,546
- And it does all the work for you.
- Wow.
2493
02:26:02,626 --> 02:26:05,266
State-of-the-art technology at a
price that everybody can afford.
2494
02:26:06,426 --> 02:26:10,386
The Amiga is the best
graphics machine available
2495
02:26:11,106 --> 02:26:12,346
in the world today.
2496
02:26:14,426 --> 02:26:15,466
Only Amiga.
2497
02:26:21,226 --> 02:26:22,266
Only Amiga.
2498
02:26:23,706 --> 02:26:24,706
Only Amiga.
2499
02:26:27,466 --> 02:26:28,466
Makes it possible.
2500
02:26:30,786 --> 02:26:32,506
Only Amiga makes it possible.
2501
02:26:36,386 --> 02:26:37,386
Outrageous.
2502
02:26:39,426 --> 02:26:40,426
Fabulous.
2503
02:26:47,146 --> 02:26:48,706
Only Amiga...
2504
02:26:48,786 --> 02:26:51,026
- This is it.
- ...makes it possible!
2505
02:26:59,746 --> 02:27:01,786
Well, it was in 1982,
2506
02:27:01,866 --> 02:27:05,346
a friend of mine that I
used to work with at Atari
2507
02:27:05,426 --> 02:27:06,626
came to me and said,
2508
02:27:06,706 --> 02:27:09,466
"Hey, Jay, let's start a new company.
I'm tired of this one."
2509
02:27:11,106 --> 02:27:14,866
And I said, "Well, fine." I said,
"I'll do the chips for it.
2510
02:27:14,946 --> 02:27:18,986
"And I'll be the vice president
if I can do the chips my way."
2511
02:27:19,546 --> 02:27:23,346
My original vision of the
machine was as a low-cost entry
2512
02:27:23,426 --> 02:27:28,746
into the computer field
via the video game area.
2513
02:27:28,826 --> 02:27:31,226
Video games, at that
time, were really hot,
2514
02:27:31,306 --> 02:27:34,026
and all our investors
wanted was a video game.
2515
02:27:34,106 --> 02:27:37,466
But I wanted something that could
be expanded into a real computer.
2515
02:27:38,305 --> 02:27:44,210
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