All language subtitles for The.Sunday.Sessions.2019.1080p.WEB-DL.AAC2.0.x264-ZTR

♪

Joining me is psychotherapist Chris Doyle.

He has dedicated his career to treating men

who say they're attracted to the same sex

but don't want to be.

He knows firsthand what it
takes to try to overcome it

because he has battled
the same issue himself.

So, Chris, start us off by explaining

what reparative therapy is.

Well, reparative therapy is when
a client comes into my office--

I'm a psychotherapist-- and they feel

that their sexual desires or attractions

are in conflict with who
they really are as a person.

Many of my clients really
don't believe they're gay.

They can see that there are specific causes

for their same sex attractions,
and we work with them

and try to identify
those causes in therapy.

The same sex desires, just
like it was in my case,

they just went away, and today I'm married,

I have two kids, and I'm so happy.

I looked at the American
Psychological Association,

the American Medical Association.

They all denounced reparative therapy.

In fact, a lot of times
they say it's dangerous.

I've changed.

I once was gay.

I've been straight for eight years,

so I know personally it works.

And all of my clients, if
they really do that work...

♪

...they'll stay straight.

♪

Salvation is found only in
His kingdom, in His church,

and nowhere else.

Now, this strikes many people in our day,

as it has in past ages...

...to be a narrow,
intolerant view of the world.

But if it's narrow-minded,

then Jesus Himself has gotta be
accused of being narrow-minded

because He's the one who said it.

Give us this day our daily bread,

and forgive us our trespasses

as we forgive those who
trespass against us.

And lead us not into temptation

but deliver us from evil.

-Good piece of steak. -No, I'm all right.

-Is that one barbecue? -Wait a minute.

The thin one, that's barbecue.

That's not barbecue. Okay.

I'm pretty sure that's barbecue.

Father and Son, Holy Spirit, amen.

Bless us, O Lord, and these, Thy gifts,

which we are about to
receive from Your bounty.

Through Christ, our Lord, amen.

Happy birthday to Dad.

-Amen. -Thank you, thank you.

♪

You gotta go onJeopardy.

-You are not the first person--
-Nathan, what year was it

that Costa Rica stopped having a military?

I think it was 1948, could be wrong.

A lot of stuff happened
then, like, you know,

this girl being found--

No, you would be the guy

that, like, answers the question,

gets it wrong, and then, like,

embarrasses the show by telling them

why they're wrong instead.

Technically, no, America's
birthday was November.

(laughing)

♪ Happy birthday to you ♪

♪ Happy birthday, dear Dad ♪

♪ Happy birthday to you ♪

Woo!

Come on, kids, help me out.

No thank you.

(laughing)

Oh, Dad, we all know you were born.

All right.

Oh, you're all still here.

Oh, wow!

Wow.

(humming)

Comfortable, loose fitting clothing.

Indoors, outdoors.

Dress in layers, blah, blah, blah.

It's sad, I've had that can of...

...shaving cream for months now.

It'll last forever.

(exhaling)

Yeah, okay.

Okay, call me when you get there.

Well, I probably will.

I think I got everything I need.

Did you eat?

Yes, yes, I did.

-All right. -Um, so...

Too much-- -I will be basically gone

all weekend.

Um, and as a general rule,

we're trying not to keep in contact

with, like, you know,
family members or whatever,

but if it's an absolute
emergency, obviously, sure.

-And I know your number. -Well, yeah.

-Well, I should hope so. -No big deal.

♪

Keep your eyes closed.

♪

And I'm gonna play a song...

♪

...that I want you to imagine
God is singing to you.

So imagine the little boy now

that you used to be at whatever age.

And I'm going to give each one of you a...

...little animal to
represent your little boy,

so when I give it to you,
hold him to your heart

and he is you.

♪

And hold him to your heart

and imagine that you're
holding the little boy

that you used to be.

♪

♪ You are so beautiful ♪

♪

♪ To me ♪

♪

I'm not completely isolated anymore.

You know, there are at
least this many people

who have gone through or are
going through the same process.

And in order for me to get through...

...this, regardless of how
much it's going to hurt...

...is I need to learn to
trust not only other people

but myself again.

Because I'm so sick and tired

of having to be strong for everyone else,

to put on a face of strength
that hides a weakness

that has run so deep for so long.

People, you know, making
fun of me for things,

who disapprove of some things
of--that I do or believe.

You know, it's like, look, I'm pursuing

this particular therapy.

You don't like it? Tough beans.

You don't like my religion?

Tough, it has stood tall and proud

over every -ism that has tried to crush it.

Paganism, Aryanism, Nazism,
communism, what have you.

And I'm a proud member of it.

You don't like it, you
don't have to be my friend.

I'm not asking you to be, that's fine.

I want to be human and happy.

And it's nice to know that with
this group and this therapy,

I no longer have to choose

between one or the other.

One serving one.

-Oh, baby! -Good, good!

Aw!

(aggressive grunting)

-Okay, we need to rotate.
-You know, it's a good thing

I didn't have dessert after
lunch 'cause this is cake.

(laughing)

Mine!

(grunts)

-Yes! -Nice, guys!

Good one!

-Yes! -You got it, you got it!

-Yeah. -Nathan!

Wow!

-Suck it! -Way to go, Nathan!

-Woo! -Woo!

Yes!

-That was, like, amazing.
-What the heck was that?

One, two, three.

(shouting)

-All right. -Once it gets big--

once it...

once it swirls enough somebody
can jump in the middle.

So it's yours.

Dad--would you start?

Nathan,

despite having a hard day at work today,

I think you should really do
something more than resting.

We work in the same goddamn building.

You know how hard I work
having to lift 100 pound bags

all the freaking time.

You're sitting in the
computer office doing IT.

You have all kinds of energy
leftover by the end of the day

to do whatever you want around the house.

So good on you, have fun.

I want to sit down and
have a couple, you know,

buckets of popcorn and
watch some television.

If I want to do something else
with my time, that's on me.

So with all due respect, go to hell.

-Who's next? -Mom.

-Good. -Oh, no, no,

please don't do that, honey.

No.

-No, no. -Okay, no, no.

You--shh--mm. Okay.

This is what I like to do with my--

if I'm just gonna throw out--
you know full well, you know,

masculine enough for you. I
don't know whether or not I am.

Well, that's just tough
beans 'cause every so often,

I'm gonna throw on a little something

and do a little acting.

If it involves being a little bit feminine,

then suck it up.

Sorry, Ma.

Not your little boy anymore.

-Just how it is. -Good.

Five down, two to go.

This is exhausting.

Um, you gave this to me

and I've been told that
sometimes the best thing

we can do with the gifts you've given us

is to give 'em right back,

so you can take these with you.

Woo!

'Cause I don't want 'em anymore.

And we rain down light and love.

Light and love

fill up Nathan the powerful,

Nathan the ballsy,

Nathan the strong.

You could have stopped at Nathan.

I'm pretty sure the rest is
on my birth certificate, so...

Receive, okay?

Thank you.

-So let's do that again. -Okay.

Nathan the wonderful,

Nathan the terrific,

Nathan the ballsy,

Nathan the honest and loving man.

-Mm, thank you. -Thank you.

No, no, no.

-Okay. -Let's try it again.

-Nathan the wonderful. -Okay, okay.

-Look, look. -Nathan the terrific.

Nathan the ballsy.

Nathan the powerful, loving man.

-Mm-hm. -Thanks.

-Yes. -You're welcome.

(applause)

Hi.

Hello.

It's great to meet you.

The pleasure is all mine.

So where are you from?

I can't place the accent.

I was raised in the mountains of Guam

and born on the shores of New Jersey.

Uh, so you want to order some appetizers?

Anything which will ensure pleasure

for your beautiful lips.

The shrimp cocktail looks great.

Mm, shrimp.

The creature of the ocean.

The ocean which is not nearly as lovely

as the ocean of your eyes.

Listen, can I ask you a
sort of blunt question?

Anything which your heart desires will be--

Cool.

All right, are you gonna be
like this the rest of the night?

Whatever do you mean?

You know, all creepy and nauseating?

Yes.

Good.

Do you like that he looks
to the audience on "yes"?

-Yeah. -Yeah.

-Yay, nay? -Yeah.

-Yes. -Yeah.

Okay, let's take a break real quick

and then we're going to move on to--

I know we haven't done it yet, 11.

How old are you?

-Dare I ask? -Me?

Um, 18.

Oh, I am older than you.

Like really old.

Were you 25?

Twenty-six, almost 27.

Yeah, you made me guess your age.

(laughing)

My face is just ready
to sag off of my skull

-any moment now. -Basically.

(laughing)

Like a cat.

Reow!

I start--fwhack.

(laughing)

Deal.

Let's go over some of the basics.

What's the first rule of gun safety?

Always treat the gun like it's loaded.

Well, that's one of 'em.

The NRA teaches the first rule is

always keep your finger off
the trigger till you're...

-Ready to fire. -...ready to shoot.

Come on.

I've forgotten how many I've put in so far.

I usually count. Um, I
think it's a good idea

always to know, but if
you look at the back,

you've got the--the back--

you've got the visual
there, you should see--

I really don't.

Actually, these are backwards.

Oop, oh shit.

Remember our slide lock lever is there?

-Yup. -That's our magazine release.

-Yup. -Finger off the trigger

till ready to shoot.

Grab it. No, grab it
like you're ready to...

-Hang on. -Don't know.

The edge is hot.

(firing gun)

Congrats, you're two minutes early.

I pegged you for being late.

Nice to see you too.

-Would you like water?
-He speaks my language!

-Please, thank you. -Would
you like, uh, to greet?

(sighs)

Is this one of these things

we're now gonna sit, stay, roll over too?

Jeez.

Good to see you.

Now part of your goals for this work

are that you want to eventually, you know,

be able to marry a woman,
have children someday.

That's not everybody's goals,
but that, you know, that's--

That's one of those things where
I want that to be an option.

I don't know whether it'll
actually end up happening.

-Okay. -'Cause one of the things

you'd have to be crazy and/or drunk,

and then two, I would have
to be crazier and/or drunker,

so I don't know.

Uh, I'd have to find a
very special kind of woman.

Do you really believe that?

I don't know, I mean,

it takes a very special kind of person

to put up with me even
on a friendship basis.

-Um, you know. -But this--

But this is a part of the work
that we were doing with you

in the weekend is that you had
this self-deprecating behavior

all the time, like, you know,

making, you know, passive
aggressive remarks at yourself

and, you know, saying things about yourself

that are almost like defense mechanisms.

Why all the self-deprecating
phrases, behaviors?

What--where does that come from?

Despite having always been picked on,

even--but there were times,
there were, like, some times

where I was, like, physically assaulted,

whatever, I was never--I never
defended myself, you know,

because I felt that that's not the thing

that I'm supposed to do.

-Okay. -Um...

So basically you took all
this crap from people.

Yeah.

And you never defended yourself,

and that stuff is sticking with you today.

-Yeah. -All right.

So stand up.

(sighs)

I want to identify some
people in your life...

...that punish you for imperfection, okay?

Let's choose some objects to
represent these figures, okay?

All right, what about--

was there any--

was there any specific girls growing up

that made you--belittled you

or made you feel like you were less than?

Uh, no, oddly.

-None? -Um...

No, no girls ever said
anything mean to you,

made you feel less than a man?

Anything like that?

-No. -Okay, let's represent

something for Mom.

Oh, this is good.

This is a...

kind of a woman with a
baby, represents her.

I want you to come up with some phrases

that these people would say to you, okay?

Now every time...

...you say some of the phrases...

(flipping pages)

...I want you to rip out a
page or two in here, okay?

And it can be a bunch of pages, all right?

And you tell 'em exactly what you think.

This is for making me feel
like I wasn't good enough.

And throw it at 'em.

It's just too emotionally
draining to get angry about it.

I know, that's a part of the process.

You have to feel in order to heal, okay?

We're not gonna think our
way out of this, remember?

-Yes, I'm aware of that. -Okay.

So put your arms down, all right?

-Ground yourself if you need to. -Okay.

And get a pair of balls, all right?

'Cause you didn't drive all
the way here to do nothing.

-I'm aware of that. -So
you're gonna work tonight.

-Okay. -All right?

You gotta feel.

Now wouldn't it be
interesting if I told you no?

Yeah?

And I just told you, "Get stuffed,

I'll do as I please."

Okay, you can do whatever
the hell you want.

-Okay. -Um, but I really think

this is gonna be helpful for you.

Or you can sit on the
sideline like you've done

the whole rest of your life

and basically let others control you,

and basically just, you know--

'Cause, see, right now what you're doing

is the sort of manipulative thing

that most of the people that I'm right now

supposedly focusing on did
to me when I was younger.

Well, how does that make you feel?

It makes me feel a little bit pissed.

Good, well, get some fucking balls

and do something about it, okay?

So who's this?

What did he say to you?

Give me something.

Uh...

You couldn't hit--

you couldn't hit the receiver

if you had the best arm in the world,

and you can't throw it.

You throw like a girl.

You are a freakin' wimp.

And yet at least I can
spell "wimp," you dumbass.

(laughing)

Oh, okay, Mr. Hide Behind My Books.

Wow, you're so smart, aren't you?

Yeah, actually, if you
compare our averages,

mine is that much better than yours,

and you know what, in the end,

unless you're playing
football for a living,

which I very much doubt
you're doing right now,

guess who's going to be
getting a better paying job

in the future? That would be me,

you little pissant.

Good, good.

All right, now we're at Mom.

-Oh, Mom. -How did Mom make you feel

like you had to be perfect, huh?

Why do you have to
criticize me all the time?

You don't, it's about time
that you realize that,

you stupid bitch.

I'm so tired of these
words staying with me.

Why can't you just say
good things about me?

Would it kill you once in a while to admit

that you're not in control of me anymore?

Were you ever, really?

I'm so sorry that you didn't
have another daughter,

but believe it or not, I have a penis.

Good, I'm a man.

And I'm tired of my balls
rolling around in your purse.

Good!

(grunts)

Good, stay with your anger.

Don't turn away from it,
you're just getting started.

All right.

So what did Dad say that
made you feel imperfect

or made you feel like
you had to--you had to--

I mean, in general, it
was just a sort of...

he wasn't really there emotionally,

so it wasn't really what he said
so much as what he didn't say.

I think the one thing that epitomized,

like, where his mind was was the one time--

Say it to him, say it to him.

You'll remember the time, Dad,

that I was given the lead role,

or the lead male role,
in a play in college.

I come out and everybody else is telling me

what a great job I did,

that it was a fantastic performance,

that for someone who hadn't acted before,

it seemed like I had
been doing it for ages.

And everyone had given me such things

right up until I came to you,

and the first thing you said to me,

you looked me dead in the
eye, what is it you say?

"You're wearing makeup."

Fuck you!

Say it, come on.

I can't say that to my own father.

-Hm? -I can't say that

-to my own father. -All right.

Well, let's split him, okay?

Fine, let's split.

Good dad and bad dad, okay?

Psychologically you have to.

If you can't--if you
can't get the anger out,

you have to split, okay,

in order to honor the
good parts of your father

and be able to make peace with
the bad parts of your father.

-Okay? -Dad,

would it have killed you

to let me be a child

for, like, five fucking minutes

of my childhood, whatever it was,

brief, though it was?

My life was wrapped up in performance, Dad.

And it still is.

(sighs)

Okay.

All right, now before we conclude this...

...let me get a garbage bag.

-That's your crap. -Gee, thanks.

So we're gonna put all this in a bag, okay?

Okay.

And you're gonna take this with you.

And then I want you to take
opportunity this weekend

or whenever you get some time

and I want you to burn all this crap, okay?

And it's symbolic for you
getting rid of it, all right?

And I don't want to ever hear

in our therapy or when I'm around you

another self-deprecating thing again.

I'm gonna correct you whenever
it happens, all right?

Because you're not defined
by this shit anymore.

All right, we've gotta end.

Undoubtedly.

(whistling)

Hm?

Oh, it's part of something

that was from one of our sessions

where Chris had me tear
off a whole bunch of stuff

and bring it home and then
we were gonna burn it.

Over there?

Oh, good, the fun stuff.

Well, let's see--it looks
like it's already catching on

very, very well, so...

-All right. -It'll do its thing, trust me.

♪

Are you gonna be like this
the rest of the dinner?

Whatever do you mean?

You know, all creepy and nauseating?

(laughter)

♪

Yes.

(laughter)

(applause)

♪

How do you guys know
each other, by the way?

Yeah, go ahead.

You're better at telling.

Um...

I was actually dating someone at the time,

and I had just started dating someone,

and we actually met via Grindr,

and started talking
horrible, inappropriate jokes

back and forth about...

This was, like, when?

Uh, two years, a little over two years ago.

-Beginning of December of 2012. -Okay.

And it grew into a very,
very lasting friendship,

which I value a lot, actually.

-And I can say the same.
-And this is whenever

you were just starting to
go through your process.

Just as soon--yeah,
actually, which is, um...

But you were-- but you were still going--

you were still struggling,
going back and forth

a little bit at that time.

And to this point,

I mean,

this is one of the reasons why I've...

Let me put it this way, a lot of the people

whom I had known from about--
from that time in my life

and prior, um,

I have either since drifted from,

uh, or have found that their interest in me

was not platonic, and there
was actually something

underneath it that they
wanted something else,

and that was the only thing
in which they were doing--

Once I told them no, that's out,

they were gone.

I came to the realization
about my sexuality

when I was a freshman in high school.

-Mm-hm. -And...

took the time and thought on
it and meditated on it and...

that's never been an issue with my family,

it's just they don't care if
I'm dating a man or a woman,

they don't care if in a
year, I meet some woman

that changes my perspective...

-Mm-hm. -...as long as that person

deserves to be with me

and is actually going to be
good for me, then that's okay.

So you're open to finding
love with whoever you find.

Mm-hm. I do know that...

...I am vastly attracted to the male form,

I'm vastly attracted to
men, I am a true homosexual,

homoamorous, and all that other stuff,

but I took behavioral psychology.

I studied Kinsey.

I'm well aware that there is
the chance for an exception.

I have witnessed exceptions.

I--we had this discussion the other night.

-Mm-hm. -Um...

I've had friends who have identified as gay

who he's now getting
married to this one woman.

-Right. -But she's the only woman

he's attracted to.

He is not attracted to any other woman.

Some are--some have that experience.

Yeah, some do have that experience.

Do you know why that happens?

The way that pulls consciously

that person to the opposite sex

is a sexual drive.

Unconsciously, it's just
a desire to know them.

So now let's go to the homosexual, right?

Typically, what we see in our clients

is that they don't connect and
bond and attach emotionally

to the same sex growing up,

at least sufficiently, in our view, okay?

So when they get to puberty,

they start to sexualize other men,

and that is the-- and that sexual response

is the only way that they're
getting close to the other--

to the same sex, because typically

they're a little detached.

They're more attached to the feminine,

if it's a guy, and a girl, the opposite.

The theory, you say it occurs
around puberty, correct?

Which--what occurs?

The sexualization of the desire to bond

with the same gender.

Well, the sexualization
happens around puberty

because that's whenever hormones
really start to develop,

but the actual longing for the same sex

occurs much prior to that.

-Mm-hm. -But keep going.

I, from what I can tell
from what I've delved into,

I had equal opportunity to bond with both,

so I landed with...

...I was built this way.

This is the way that my
body and my mind have--

have always been programmed.

I have not, in as far
back as I can remember...

-Mm-hm? -...ever actually been

sexually attracted to a woman.

But what you are most likely experiencing,

and what I see a lot with my clients

who say that they were
attracted to the same sex

at that age is it's an emotional longing

for connection.

And then the emotional detachment

from the same sex

then becomes sexualized

once you get the hormones
and the puberty kicks in

so that it becomes very, very confusing

for people at that age

because also society is saying to you

that you're gay if you feel this way,

and this is who you are,

instead of that this is what's happened

psychologically and emotionally.

(congregation singing hymn)

♪

Body of Christ.

♪

Bless us, O Lord, in these, Thy gifts,

which we are about to
receive from Thy bounty.

Through Christ, our Lord, amen.

How's the play going?

Aside from some people not
knowing how to tell time,

um, it's going fairly well.

There's this one guy, he's only in act one.

He actually has stage presence,
carries himself very well,

is very entertaining.

He's the first person to go.

I'm like, are you kidding me, really?

I'm looking forward to seeing it.

Well, I'm hoping that it's
something worth watching.

(indistinct chatter)

♪

Do you know what you're gonna get?

I'm probably not gonna get anything.

For some reason, I'm not all that hungry.

I will sit here and reenact
my Miss Piggy orgasm

-and scream your name. -No, why?

I don't need to know that.

I do not need to know that

'cause then I will probably
break out my Kermit voice

and just try and make as
much light of it as I can.

"Get off of me, you wildebeest!"

"What's long, thin, green,
and smells like pork?"

"Kermit's fingers."

(laughing)

I smell bacon.

"So do I."

Wow, okay, there is a
special spot in hell for me.

-Woo! -There's a special spot in hell

for both of us--oh wait,
I don't believe in it.

Oh, wow.

Telling a pagan that they're going to hell

for their sins is like me telling you

you're going to Mordor.

I am aware of the concept,

-thank you. -Uh-huh.

Notice, though, I didn't leave you anywhere

in my statement.

In your statement, does
that mean your butt?

Yes, "My Statement" is
my nickname for my ass.

What the fuck is-- -Well, your ass is

quite a statement in those jeans.

You know--please.

Your statement--well, your
ass was more of a statement

in the jeans you were
wearing when we went bowling.

Yet--wait, these were the same jeans,

-nothing changed. -I know.

-We were bowling. -You were bent over.

And bouncing.

You do this little bend
and then pseudo-bouncing.

-Yes, you fucking do. -No, I do not.

-Yes, you do. -That is a lie.

You do, it's-- you bend over and you go,

-one, two, three. -Why
don't you have someone

videotape me now while I bowl,

just to see if it's true?

Shut up.

Have a fry.

I don't eat whatever that's on there.

I'll eat-- I have my own here.

Eat it. There we go.

What were your thoughts

concerning the session which
you attended in November?

My only hang-up with
your sessions with Chris

and the scope of things
that they touch on is...

is this:

There is a lot of positive movement forward

within your emotional
state, your mental state,

and that's great.

-But... -But...

it is being latched and
immediately reattached

and associated with your changes,

or the change you are striving for.

And the one worry in
the back of my head is,

"Hm. This is called association,

and it is actually a
trick used by salespeople

and everyone else," and it's,

"Let's give them ideas
and feels that are good

and then latch it and
associate it with something

that we want them to latch on to."

And like I said,

as long as this continues to
be something that you want

and feel you should do,

I will support you. If this is something

that actually brings you happiness,

that actually makes you
feel more comfortable

within yourself as a person,

on the whole, I will support it.

But if this is something you
are doing because you feel

that you have to change,

-then we will have a problem.
-Yeah, that's not really

-an issue. -Well, then--

then we're fine.

Like, I know that your parents
didn't pressure you into this,

because when you told your
parents that you were gay,

one of them-- you didn't
tell me which one--

that one of them said, "We
love you no matter what,

and we will accept you no matter what."

And then before all of
that had time to sink in

and become a part of your reality,

you said you were changing it.

-Correct? -I think I dropped

those bombs simultaneously,
so I can't really get

a fair read on exactly what
the reaction woulda been.

They don't necessarily understand

that you're wanting to change

because of your religious beliefs,

and all of those things.

All they understand is,

"My son told me something

that takes a lot to tell someone,

but is too ashamed to even continue

living that life and wants to change,

because he doesn't love himself enough

to just accept himself for who he is."

My thing is, why do you feel you--

it's like, if I already said, you know,

"I love you no matter what,"

and you still feel that
you need the change,

I know the problem lies not within myself,

I know that the dilemma lies
within the other person,

and my question then is...

-Why? -You know,

what can I do to help you,

why are you so afraid of something

that you haven't even allowed
yourself to completely

experience in a positive manner?

'Cause you told me about
your ex-boyfriends.

-Right. -Like, all two of them?

-Yes, all two. -All two of them.

And both of them were
emotionally needy and abusive

and psychotic,

and horrible examples of
what being in a relationship

would be like.

Okay, before you started dating men, how--

when did you start dating men?

Twenty...three...

-Twenty-three. -...ish?

How many--how many girls were
you in relationships with?

-Uh, none. -None.

Okay, so you've never been in
a relationship with a woman.

I may have fancied a few of them, but...

The point being, you've never been

presented the opportunity to enter into

a healthy romantic
relationship with anyone,

regardless of gender.

Turn a little bit more towards here.

Not quite as far, but, like,

point your feet a little more towards--

There you go, now look at me.

Basically, you keep yourself in shape,

so if you turn like that,
it's illustrating that,

whereas a lot of people,
you're trying to hide the fact

that they're not in very good shape

when you're seeing pictures.

So if you're in shape,

put it in the picture.

Now, look into the lens.

(shutter snapping)

Would you like to do some

breathing and meditation tonight?

Or you just wanna start it, go into it?

Oh, what the hell, why not?

Okay.

All right.

(tapping at keyboard)

Okay.

♪

-Nathan, are you ready? -Mm-hm.

All right, let's begin.

♪

Breathe in...

two, three, and hold...

and out.

Three, two, one.

♪

Breathe in...

two, three, and hold...

...and breathe out.

Three, two, one.

♪

Breathe in...

two, three, and hold...

...and breathe out,

three, two, one.

♪

Okay?

Where would you like to start?

I have no idea.

(clears throat)

(sighs)

It seems...

...like over the past few
weeks, anyway, that...

...I have been hit with...

...like, little almost--
not personal, but, like,

little defeats or jabs,

or, uh, you know,

something that would feel
almost deflationary to me.

So, some challenges?

-Yeah. -Mm-hm.

What are some of those challenges?

(sighs)

I don't mean to sound--

-what's about to... -Just say it.

What I'm about to say,

I don't want to sound like a dick

or ungrateful or whatever...

Come on. Just say it.

...but how long is this
going to take, Chris,

and how deeply rooted can it ever be,

whether it's-- at all or just for me,

in your personal estimation.

Because I don't wanna have to find out

that this is gonna take until I'm 60,

and then be like, "Great, my youth is gone,

and probably my chances of marriage."

Nathan, this isn't a cure.

And I never said that you're
gonna go through therapy

and you're going to completely get rid of

all same-sex attractions,
it's never gonna ever

come back again.

That would be probably an
unrealistic expectation

for almost anybody.

But it's important that you know

that SSA is not about SSA.

It's about all the underlying issues.

So, if you're having SSA,

what are the issues underneath that?

That's what we need to
explore in our work together.

-Right. -Right?

I'm exhausted.

I want so much at times
just to switch off...

...all emotions for me.

And everybody-- there's some people

who give you that line where
you just wanna choke 'em out

where about how emotions are
part of what makes us human--

like, no.

We are the rational animal.

Our rationality is what defines us

as human beings.

Mm-hm.

Emotion does not enter into that equation.

If emotions are in fact
some kind of expression

of what we've gleaned
from logic, knowledge,

what have you, fine.

But honestly, I've always viewed emotions

as a kind of weakness.

Nathan, what's going on that
you're so emotional lately?

Something has had to be happening that's

bringing up so much for you.

There are really only one
or two people with whom

I can actually speak
about my emotional state.

And one of them is my
mother, I don't really know

if that counts, she doesn't...

You know, it's like---

Well, of course it counts.

I mean, it counts, but it's--she's...

Of the two people to whom I speak

about my emotions in
any way, shape, or form,

she's the lesser of the two.

Okay, who's the other?

The one person that anybody
else who knows about him says

I should probably stay away from.

Okay. And that is who?

-Cameron. -Okay.

He has been the first person
with whom I have ever had

a three-hour-long phone call

just about my emotional state,

and we covered a lot of things in that.

Um, I don't even remember the context

of that particular phone--
you'd think I would

being it was the first
three-hour fucking phone call.

But it...

He was--the fact that there was someone

who wanted or was willing
to listen to me talk about

my prob--my problems,
emotional and otherwise,

for over two and a half hours...

Mm-hm.

...in some respects is
incredibly relieving,

and scary as hell at the same time.

Mm-hm.

I don't like being vulnerable with anybody.

Mm-hm.

Because it places me in
a position of weakness.

Nathan, come on.

Let's cut the shit here, okay?

If you woulda grew up in
a family and a childhood

where there was unconditional loved--

unconditional love given out

and things were perfect and happy

and no one ever got hurt,

you wouldn't be sitting here today

worrying about getting too close to people.

-Right. -Okay?

Well, in that case, Chris,
let's cut all the shit.

What do you think would exactly happen

if I were to get very
close to specific people?

I'm trying to get you there, okay?

Something's going on here
that's triggering a wound,

and you're afraid that someone
can get close to you again,

because people in the past
that have been close to you

have hurt you.

And the people that are closest to you

have the most potential to hurt you.

For this particular one...

...especially when it comes to Cameron,

I don't know whether or not

I can allow myself to get close to him,

because there's always the people saying,

"Well, it's like a near occasion,"

or "He might want something
else," or whatever.

I don't get the impression that he is, say,

waiting to pounce, so to speak.

I don't think he would do that,

he has said that he wouldn't.

-I think he's telling the truth. -Okay.

So-- -I'm more afraid

of what I would do, because, again,

it's been two year-- over two years now

that I've been doing
this therapy, about a y--

over a year and a half
since anything of, uh,

of an impure nature, I
suppose you could say,

has occurred.

So you're afraid that you might become

-vulnerable and weak around him?
-Well, I don't know, I just--

I don't know, and I don't want people to--

like the last thing I'd
want is people saying,

"Well, I told you so,"

or that this one friendship

that has bothered to be
of this kind of depth

for the first time in God knows how long

went sour as well.

If you trust Cameron

and he's helping you in your life,

and he's a good friend,

then he's a good friend.

It's not his problem and his fear.

It's your issue,

and you have to put down
appropriate boundaries

to know what you're comfortable with

and what you're not.

But again, you're always in control

and you're always in charge
of this process for you.

So, I'm just trying to help empower you.

He thought it an excellent plan.

Came to meet me that night by the cliff

without suspicion.

I sent him over with a push...

...so easily.

He swallowed my red herring all right.

(chuckling)

(hysterical weeping)

No, Vera Claythorne.

All my life, I have wanted to take.

-Oh yes. -No, no!

To take life.

I've had to get what enjoyment I could

out of sentencing the guilty to death

and I've always enjoyed that, but...

it wasn't enough.

I wanted more.

Prisoner at the bar!

Have you have anything to say

why sentence should not be passed on you?

Vera Elizabeth Claythorne,
I sentence you to death.

Stop! I'm not guilty, I'm not guilty!

(chuckles)

They all say that.

Must plead not guilty.

Unless, of course, you're going all out

for a verdict of insanity.

But you're not mad, my dear.

I'm mad.

But you're not.

But I am innocent, I swear it!

I never killed that child,
I never wanted to kill him.

You're a judge.

You know when a person is guilty
and when they're innocent.

I swear I'm telling the truth.

So you didn't kill that boy after all.

No, no, no.

That's very interesting.

-Excellent. -Good stuff, boom, boom!

Well, I did try to--
like, that alternate of

what you guys suggested, I mean...

What? What don't you like?

It just seems almost like he's gone stoic

almost at this point
instead of being conflicted.

I'm leaning towards that,

"So you didn't kill that boy after all."

Mm-hm.

"Interesting.

But that hardly matters
now," because there--

I still want the audience
to feel there's some

small chance you could change your mind.

-Some small chance. -Even
if they know you won't.

Some small chance, there's that small voice

in the back of your conscience
saying this is wrong.

Father God, we come to You in Jesus' name.

We thank You for Nathan

and thank You for
bringing him here tonight,

and guide and direct us with Your spirit.

In Your name we pray, amen.

So, how are you feeling?

(huge exhalation)

I--everything-- I've
gotten back in touch with

one of my best friends from high school.

We were easily best friends,

and it seemed like after a while,

she almost asked to go out.

But at that point, I had already known

that I was struggling with this SSA thing,

so I didn't say anything about that,

I just came up with some reason not to--

not to accept, to say no.

So, long story short, I eventually told her

about what I'm doing here,

and then she said, "Well, now I know why

you turned me down."

Mm-hm.

And I say, "Well, it only took nine years."

Um, and when I texted that
back, it was just sort of,

I'm old enough to have
nine-year-old regrets?

Um...

...so, um...

So you regret not pursuing her?

Well, I just regret not taking the chance,

in some respects, or...

or I regret that this is a thing for me,

whereas other people don't
have to worry about that shit,

they can just go out and, you know,

just get married, have
kids, and do whatever--

like, this is not a thing for them,

then can decide, you know, that they're...

(sighs)

It seems...

...that other people's happiness
comes at a much lower cost...

...than mine.

Look at the example of Paul.

Mm-hm.

-Okay? -Mm-hm.

One of the greatest passages
in the New Testament

is when Paul's in prison,

he's writing his letter to the Corinthians.

You remember what he says?

Well, there was a lot in Corinthians.

-We have to narrow it down...
-But it's regarding this issue.

Basically, it's along the lines of,

"I have learned to be content

with many, with a lot, and with little,

and find joy."

So Paul praised God and found contentment

while he was in chains.

Wasn't because he had achieved.

Wasn't because he was wealthy--

in fact, he knew he was gonna die.

But he knew that he had followed
God's will for his life,

and he knew that,

and he found contentment in that.

So happiness wasn't-- -At least he had

a blueprint then, it seems like.

"I have learned to be content
with" whatever, I mean,

he's found God's plan for his life, great.

I haven't, and in some respects,

I feel like a ship without a rudder.

It's like, where the fuck am I going?

I think that's the ultimate
question that's gonna help you.

It's not about achieving,

it's about knowing that
you're on the right path.

'Cause if you're on the right path,

you're confident,

and this is the path that
you're supposed to go,

ultimately, you'll find peace
and contentment in that,

regardless of the circumstances.

Yeah, well, again, it
dovetails rather nicely,

because I would consider
it a massive achievement

to find out that I'm on the right path,

and...

I've come to find out that so very little,

if anything, is certain anymore...

Mm-hm.

...that I've begun to doubt everything.

Things...

...that seemed to be set in stone,

or taken for granted almost, before...

(sighs)

...are being called into question.

Maybe you're not at the
place where you wanna be.

But there's a reason for that.

I'm sorry I can't tell you the answer.

But God has got you on a path,

and ultimately, you're not in control,

and I think that's probably
one of the hardest things

-for you to handle. -Mm-hm.

♪

You didn't drown that boy after all.

♪

That's-- that's very interesting.

♪

But it hardly matters now, does it?

You see, I can't spoil my lovely ride.

Ten little Indian boys, and...

you're the last one.

One little Indian boy left all alone.

♪

He went and hanged himself.

-I must hang my... -No!

-My little... -(gunshot)

(clattering)

You.

♪

Philip.

Philip!

Philip, oh Philip.

I'm all right, my darling.

I'm all right.

♪

I thought you were dead.

I thought I'd killed you.

♪

I am beginning to question whether or not

what I would argue is a
relatively low success rate...

...would ever justify in--

again, screw other people,
again, their pursuit

of their own happiness
is their own baby, but,

in terms of my own,

I don't think there will ever, ever, ever

be enough therapy on God's green earth

that will ever convince me

that I can give myself the
green light to go ahead

and get married to a woman.

Okay.

And, um, that bothers me...

...a lot.

And the only thing worse...

...to me anyway...

...than wasting my time on...

...what could be considered
a foolish endeavor

or a fool's errand...

...is ever having invested in false hope.

I don't know...

(sighs)

I don't know what's real
and what's not anymore.

Before...

...years ago...

...there were very few
people who would argue that--

who wouldn't argue that I was unhappy.

But I was stable.

Now, I'm unhappy and I'm unstable.

And I'm incredibly angry about it.

(sighs)

Like, I-- -Could I--

-I'm sorry, go ahead. -Go ahead.

Well, I was gonna say
that, in my own life...

...I can tell you that I've been through

what you're going through,

and I used to think that getting married

and finding a woman and having a family

would make me happy.

And it has provided some happiness.

-But... -But ultimately,

it's caused me a lot of grief too,

and a lot of pain,

because it's hard

and it requires a lot of sacrifice.

And really sacrificing my own happiness

for a lot of it,

because it's...

it's not really,

what I've found,

marriage and family is not really about

me and happiness.

It's really about putting my own happiness

and others' happiness before me and love.

And it's the love...

...the love that I've given,

and the love that I've received in return,

that makes it okay,

that makes me actually feel...

that gives me the strength to go on.

Now, if what you're telling me

is that marriage doesn't
guarantee happiness,

then, well, at that point,

who cares whether or not I'm miserable

with a man or a woman?

I think you're absolutely right.

And that's a very dangerous
precedent to set, Chris,

because if you give me that kind of leeway

with which to think,

God knows where I will end up.

Nathan...

whether you're with a man or a woman

sexually, romantically,

is not going to make you happy or unhappy.

That's not-- that's not the answer for you.

That, I know for sure.

(sighs)

Then...

And I'm asking this
with as much seriousness

as I possibly can.

And I'm not trying to come off as a dick.

Why am I here?

That's for you to answer.

I don't set your goals. I never have.

(sighs)

Great.

Honestly, I don't know where
that leaves me right now.

Why'd you first come to see me?

(sighs)

I don't even remember anymore.

I thought I was miserable then

and that whatever alternatives there were

would make me happy.

It just seems, though, right now,

that what I'm being told is
that I'm going to be miserable

regardless of where I end up.

Nathan, you're in control of your destiny.

What I've told you tonight is that

you're not going to find
happiness in another person.

You have to find happiness in yourself.

And until you-- until you realize that

and stop running away,

and trying to find yourself in someone else

or bury your pain and not deal with it,

you're not gonna be happy.

But I didn't say you
were gonna be miserable

for the rest of your life.

You are completely in control of that.

(sobbing)

(sniffling)

Okay.

(sighing)

There was a time, um...

...during the therapy, um...

perhaps a large swath of it

was because I wasn't
seeing as much progress

as I would've liked.

I hit a rough patch.

I--I was just, for
whatever reason, depressed.

At that point, I had...

I was--it was really, really difficult.

I was struggling to deal
with the entire thing,

the therapy itself.

I'd even considered
drawing into a closed one

because I've been beginning
to question so much.

Uh, and...

It just--it seemed like things
got really dark for a while.

Shortly thereafter...

um...

In, I suppose, a rare moment of sanity,

I decided that I should
rely on outside help.

I'd gone to mass shortly thereafter and...

...my prayers aren't--

I'm not one for very formal prayer.

It's usually God and I have a very, uh...

...spontaneous relationship.

There are times I'll just throw
really random stuff out there.

And I'm glad He is as
accepting of me as He is.

But I was in mass,

and I was still in that really dark place.

♪

And just in the middle of mass,

I had--I'd offered the prayer,

just, "Lord, I am, for many reasons,

uh, incredibly lonely,

and without help, I'm just sort of--

I'm adrift right now.

And I know I don't usually...

I usually don't ask for
this sort of thing...

♪

...but I need to be--

I need to have some kind of touch, contact.

I need to be...

to be held,

because I am just so
remarkably by myself right now

that, um...

...everything is falling apart.

♪

And there are few things
more painful than watching

something that you're trying to build,

uh, collapse inward on its own weight.

And so that would be great

if I could just be, um...

♪

I need to be held.

I know that's a really weird thing to ask,

but if You could do that,
that would be great."

And it wasn't 10 minutes later that...

Father Fasano said the
consecration at mass,

the high point

where it all sort of hit me

at the same time

that my prayer was not
only about to be answered,

but I was going to be given
much more than I'd asked for,

because the truth of the consecration

and the nature of transubstantiation

became remarkably apparent to me.

During the consecration, as Catholics,

we believe that the bread and wine

become the body, blood, soul,

and divinity of Jesus Christ,

and, at that point, it
became readily apparently--

readily apparent to me that not only was--

I wasn't just going to be held,

Christ Himself was about
to enter into me in full.

That is not even an honor
granted to the angels.

♪

So, I'm sitting there making
an abject fool of myself

in the middle of mass, 'cause I was at

this really low point

just 10 minutes before

when I'd offered up what I thought

was the most ridiculous and stupid prayer

that I'd ever offered.

And because--again,

God has a really weird sense of humor.

Not 10 minutes later,

I'm on the polar opposite
end of that spectrum

where He's like, "Yeah, tell ya what,

I've got one better for ya."

(chuckling)

And it became readily apparent to me...

...that--I had originally understood,

like intellectually,

what was meant by the miracle of the mass

and transubstantiation,

but it never really hit home

emotionally and substantively

until about that point...

♪

...where I couldn't help but think if...

I mean, I don't know how
other Christian denominations

even can survive in the way that they have,

because if they saw what I
did at that particular mass

and appreciated the actual
miracle of the Eucharist,

there would not be a single
person on this planet

who would not be Catholic.

♪

And it was just that one point,

that one hour-long stretch
that so many people

are so eager to just hurry up
and get over with on Sundays

that made all the difference.

♪

And I could not be more thankful for it,

because honestly I think
that was the turning point

where I thought I actually
might be able to do this.

This might just work.

I'm going to need nothing
short of divine help.

(chuckling)

♪

But I have it.

♪

Let's kick the can down
the road a few years.

You get married,

and she has the option of...

...getting love from you in the sense

that you do everything correct,

you bring home a nice paycheck,

you do the dishes, you
take the garbage out,

you know, you clean up after yourself,

you know, you give her 1.8 children,

a white picket fence, and a dog, right?

But you never ever heartfelt say to her

or express to her that you love her.

Or you're imperfect,

you give her 1.2 children instead of 1.8,

half a dog, half a white picket fence.

Let's just say things
aren't perfect, all right?

However, you live life together

and she knows that you love her

because you really express it to her.

What do you think she's gonna prefer?

When I first started, I
definitely would have chosen

the perfect...

...version of myself and now...

Now I don't think I would.

Well, then I'd say, sir,
that you have changed.

If I ever do...

...get married and have...

...a family, which entails children...

...and I haven't figured out emotionally

how to love someone else properly,

and the marriage dissolves or is annulled--

again, it's not just me,

it's my spouse, my children...

...and I don't know if I'll
ever be ready for that.

Yeah.

Well, I'll tell you what.

All I can do is speak
from personal experience,

that my wife and I, when we got married,

we said that divorce was not an option

and that no matter what
we would work through it,

and we've been together for nine years.

We have five children,

and it is definitely not easy.

There are days when I
wanna throw in the towel.

However, what's keeping me with my wife

is my commitment to her and God.

It's not to my feelings,

it's not to me doing everything perfect.

God knows, you can ask her,

I don't do it.

But it's that commitment.

And it's something greater than you,

and it's something greater than her.

That's what you're holding on to.

I also think that God will
send the right one for you,

that you won't have to look too hard.

But you're a great guy,

and there's lots of women out there

who would be lucky to be with you.

What? You only need one.

♪

Three.

♪

Let's switch it up again a little bit.

One, good, two...

Little bit of smile. Come on, two--

there you go--three.

♪

Ow.

It seems kind of impersonal, though,

to have your birthday/ Christmas present

-just be a big check. -Well, honey,

it's the right size and color.

-I can get anything I want.
-You are the first person

who's going completely
the opposite on that.

No, I am so into that.
It's like, I'd rather--

your father tried over
the years to get me things

and all I'd do is ask for the
receipt and bring it back.

I mean, just know that I
would've tried something else

if, you know--

I'm trying to do the
whole be personable thing,

like try and actually put effort into it.

Yeah, no offense, Mom,
but I would not treat

that woman like you in
any way, shape, or form.

No, I'm just saying,
like, so don't even think

that you're making this difficult,

because I automatically would be like

whatever the way you and I interact,

yeah, it would be completely
the opposite with her.

(indistinct conversation)

Where is--what's your reference point?

-The third tree! -The turd tree.

Wow, you're horrible.

You are absolutely horrible.

(doorbell ringing)

'Cause I have pants on.

No, we've heard the-- we
prefer the good news, thanks.

Get your ass in here.

-Nathan! -What?

-Let him in! -I did!

(indistinct talking)

Always the comedian.

-How are you doing? -Hi.

I thought he closed the door on you.

No, that's just his style.

How are ya?

We do, always, you know, as
long as we work together,

we're gonna hug, okay?

Well, that's why-- -No, no, no,

you're not working with
me, I'm working with you.

There's a difference, so we handshake.

That's why I'm on this side of the counter.

(laughing)

It's good to see you, too.

-So it's Grace, right? -Gabrielle.

Oh, you're Gabrielle
and you're Grace, okay.

-Hey, Chris! -Hey, Larry!

Father, God, we come to You in Jesus' name.

Lord, we thank You for this family,

we thank You for Nathan,

Roma, Larry, Hope, Gabrielle, Grace.

Lord, we come to You expecting.

We ask You to send Your Holy Spirit

to guide us in our work this weekend.

And Lord, we thank You for
what You are going to do

and what's already been accomplished.

Lord, we look forward to the healing

that we're going to experience,

and we just pray, Lord,
that all of our hearts

and minds would be open.

In Your most precious name we pray.

-Amen. -Amen.

This may not be comfortable emotionally,

so we're gonna start with--

and Nathan, this is just
your opportunity to listen.

Roma, no questions.

This is just a time for you to
share deeply from your heart

about the history of your
life with your son, Nathan.

-Okay? -Mm-hm.

I remember in school, the
kids were mean even with me.

Just like we were talking before,

there's always--always somebody

making fun of you for something

or putting you down or whatever,

and that's life, you've gotta
go with the ups and downs,

so I would still be hurt and
I didn't know what to do,

but maybe listen to you or...

...try to talk to you about it.

But as, you know, you were
probably in your teens

when things became more obvious,

I think, under more struggles,

when Dr. Mango had told us
about some things with you

that he was seeing signs of SSA.

I didn't know what it was, first of all,

and how that would happen,
and if he was sure,

and, you know, so we
just did some research,

but it was something very new.

Gosh, I didn't understand
the whole situation at all.

Only heard about it in the
news or people talking.

So, as we did more research,

I kept praying and hoping,

because you know and I know
how important our faith is,

that your feelings existed,

but now where does this--
where do we go from here

and how do I--your father
and I help you, guide you,

letting you know always that
we love you no matter what.

We loved you no matter what.

It didn't matter.

It didn't matter what.

Um...

I had other kids at that time, too,

so my time was divided.

I know sometimes your needs
slipped through the cracks.

I'm sorry.

You received...

...many wounds.

Hurtful wounds.

I'm sorry for all the pain you endured.

You had enough pain to endure

just because you were struggling

with something so different.

So...

Something that you felt was so unnatural.

You didn't know what to do.

And then you had people
making you feel even worse.

You can give him a hug if you like.

Would it be okay?

(crying)

I love you.

I know.

I love you.

You don't have to say it, I know that.

That's you-- -I love you, too.

Dad, do you wanna share first?

Just watching you grow up,

you were a fun baby, you were happy.

Mom took good care of you,
I tried to be a good father.

I know I sucked at times.

I just--I guess I had that model

where, you know, life is hard.

And it wasn't that I didn't love you,

but I just felt that, as you grew up,

I had to help steel you up
for the hardness of the world,

and that's the way it was.

I think over the past few years,

you've helped me to have
a relationship with you,

to be--to give me a chance.

And it's things I don't have to fix,

like, you know, riding a motorcycle,

I don't feel the need to,
like, "Oh, it's a man thing.

You need to do that,"

so I guess I'm accepting
you more for who you are

and enjoying who you are.

So I ask you to forgive me for--

for...

(crying)

Didn't--didn't expect this.

But forgive me for being a bad father.

I could've done so much better.

It didn't come with an instruction manual,

just a bunch of shitty diapers.

So I'm sorry for that,

and I want you to know I'll do my best

to be there for you and watch you grow,

become the man that you wanna be.

There was a time in my life

where I drifted...

...very far from the church.

And, um...

The only things that brought me back--

because once you pull one
thread out of that tapestry,

everything else starts to unwind.

You make one exception for one thing

and everything falls apart around it.

The only things that brought me back,

and there were two of them:

The Natural Law...

...and the Eucharist.

It terrifies me to death...

...that it came down to those two things...

...before I decided I cannot
pull the trigger on this.

I either leave the entire thing behind

or I come back in full.

'Cause that is something you cannot undress

and just leave in part.

It is either all or none.

And I had to take three years of my life...

...giving up things, rounding out edges,

things that I thought I needed.

I did my research,

and a lot of it was wrong.

I had to undo years of my life.

I gave up relationships.

And even now, the last person I left,

the only reason why he can't hate me

is because, I don't know
why, but for some reason,

it's almost like he pities me or something

saying that I'm--my religion
hates me or what have you,

and I was like, "You don't understand.

If you saw what I do in the Eucharist

and in the church,

and in everything she gives me,

you would be standing right here with me."

I had to take three years of my life

to destroy everything.

Everything!

And start over from the beginning!

For Christ's sake,

at least consider that.

...that the church will act as a mediator

in finding solutions to
problems affecting peace,

social harmony, the defense of life,

and human and civil right.

Let us pray to the Lord.

Lord, hear our prayer.

That in this year dedicated
to consecrated life,

religious men and women
may rediscover the joy

of following Christ

and strive to serve the poor with zeal.

Let us pray to the Lord.

Lord, hear our prayer.

♪

There's a great excerpt
that I think encapsulates

a lot of the crux of the issue

between people struggling with SSA

and even the LGBTQ community,

and I think it's from
John Paul II's encyclical

Fides et Ratio,

and I love this particular excerpt from it,

because it's just so poignant.

♪

"All human beings desire to know,

and truth is the proper
object of this desire.

Everyday life shows how concerned

each of us is to discover for ourselves

beyond mere opinions how things really are.

With invisible creation,
man is the only creature

who not only is capable of knowing,

but who knows that he knows

and is therefore interested
in the real truth

of what he perceives.

People cannot be genuinely
indifferent to the question

of whether what they know is true or not.

If they discover that it
is false, they reject it,

but if they can establish its truth,

they feel themselves rewarded.

It is this that St. Augustine teaches

when he writes, quote,

'I have met many who wanted to deceive,

but none who wanted to
be deceived,' end quote.

It is rightly claimed that
persons have reached adulthood

when they can distinguish independently

between truth and falsehood,

making up their own minds

about the objective reality of things.

This is what has driven so many inquiries,

especially in the scientific field,

which, in recent centuries,

have produced important results

leading to genuine
progress for all humanity.

No less important than research
in the theoretical field

is research in the practical field--

by which I mean the search for truth

which looks to the good
which is to be performed.

In acting ethically, according to a free

and rightly tuned will,

the human person sets foot
upon the path to happiness

and moves toward perfection.

Here too it is a question of truth.

It is this conviction, which I stressed

in my encyclical letter,
Veritatis splendor.

Quote, 'There is no
morality without freedom.

Although each individual has a right

to be respected in his own journey

in search of the truth,

there exists a prior moral obligation,

and a grave one at that,

to seek the truth and to adhere to it

once it is known.

It is essential, therefore,
that the values chosen

and pursued in one's life be true,

because only true values can lead people

to realize themselves fully,

allowing them to be true to their nature.

The truth of these values is to be found

not by turning in on oneself,

but by opening oneself
to apprehend that truth

even at levels which transcend the person.

This is an essential condition
for us to become ourselves

and to grow as mature adult persons.'"

♪

♪