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(whooshing)
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♪
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I had a class the other day
where the professor talked
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about how homosexuality
was a mental illness,
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how gay people are ridiculous
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and they just want the limelight
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and how we're destroying the family.
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♪
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I want to get married and have babies.
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I want to do it all,
and I want to be happy,
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but it's really hard to leave something
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that you've grown up in, and
we've literally been told
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since we can remember that, like,
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this is what God wants.
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♪
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In many ways, BYU has been
a really great fit for me.
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Academically, it's been wonderful.
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Romantically, it has been awful.
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Just because they have what, to them,
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seem like justifiable reasons
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for how they treat queer people
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doesn't mitigate the
tremendous amount of pain
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that it has put me through.
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♪
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Mm, I'll put it on your side.
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I identify as gay or queer,
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but I'm just the stereotypical lesbian.
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So I came out to myself when I was 16,
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and I had no idea that
other gay Mormons existed,
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like, or if they did, like,
they definitely have left
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the church by now and everything.
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Coming to BYU meant I could get back
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into the spiritual mind frame
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and I would be surrounded
by it all the time,
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and I would be surrounded
by good Mormon people
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all the time, and I could get back
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to where I wanted to be spiritually.
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At that point, I still was planning on
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at least trying to marry a dude.
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Either--I was either gonna be celibate
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or marry a dude.
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And, like, even if I dated
a million boys at BYU,
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like, if one of them worked,
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if one of them was someone
that I wanted to marry,
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then good, that would work.
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And I wanted to do the church thing,
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and I wanted to do the not being alone
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for the rest of my life thing.
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♪
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I am a comparative
studies major here at BYU.
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And my thesis is actually
on how Greek and Roman myths
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are reused in modern storytelling.
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And I identify as a gay man as well.
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LGBTQ issues at BYU, there's a lot to say.
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Uh, Mormons operate on
a fundamental assumption
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that homosexuality is wrong.
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Heterosexuality,
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a man and a woman falling in love,
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is kind of the basis of what is right
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and deviations from that
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are broken, messed up,
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and something that needs to be fixed.
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So this statue is called "First Child."
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Family is really important to Mormons.
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It's kind of like the
center of our religion.
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Uh, I mean, there's God, there's Jesus,
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and then there's the heteronormative family
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with a man, and a woman, and a child.
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And there are lots of really
beautiful things about that,
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how, really, you need
to build up your family
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and make it one of love,
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both for the parents and for the child.
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And there is...
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I don't know, there's a lot
of that that I really want.
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It's part of my culture as a Mormon,
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a huge part of my faith,
but it's also kind of sad
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that it's just marriage
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between a man and a woman.
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It's hard to feel like there's not
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really a place for you
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when you don't fit literally this image
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and try to figure out just
kind of where your place is
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in the school and in
this church, in general.
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♪
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Hello, everyone, and welcome to USGA!
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My name is J.D. Goates.
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Or at least that's how I start
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every single one of my meetings.
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And let me tell you, if I don't sound
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like a gay vlogger, I'm not doing it right.
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00:05:16,820 --> 00:05:19,410
So I grew up in Orem, Utah.
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Both of my parents work at
Brigham Young University.
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They're chemistry professors.
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00:05:23,490 --> 00:05:27,620
My mother is Catholic,
and my father is LDS.
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00:05:27,620 --> 00:05:29,330
So this is a very interesting thing for me.
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I actually went to four
hours of church every Sunday.
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I know, you can all groan.
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It's okay, I did, too.
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So I'm bisexual.
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I identify as bisexual.
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I'm still a Mormon in a variety of ways,
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but I'm not at the same time.
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Uh, I think the most accurate description
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that someone has ever given
me is a "cafeteria Mormon"
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because there are things
that I really do believe,
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I really hold on to,
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and there are other things
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that I cannot fathom.
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Um, my sexual orientation
being one of them.
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Am I worried about being kicked out?
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The answer is every day of my life.
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I know a lot of people, unfortunately,
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that have been kicked
out from their houses,
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their families won't talk to them.
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Their friends, once they come out,
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refuse to see them.
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Their apartment mates,
unfortunately, at BYU,
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because of the Honor Code,
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many queer students are harassed
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and kicked out of their apartments
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without any true justification.
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I've been trying to figure it out, too.
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I'm like, what is it about me, like,
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how can you look at me and,
like, use female pronouns?
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I try to look in the mirror, I'm like,
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"What gives it away?"
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To me--and to me, I look like a guy, too,
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00:06:51,620 --> 00:06:53,870
because I don't look
anything like I did before
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00:06:53,870 --> 00:06:55,750
'cause I had such long hair
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00:06:55,750 --> 00:06:58,380
and, like, once my voice drops,
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I will be a happy man.
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That'll be so great.
133
00:07:01,340 --> 00:07:05,680
I never heard the word
"transgender" until...
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00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:08,060
First, I came out to myself as gay.
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00:07:08,060 --> 00:07:09,600
That was, you know, after the mission.
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00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:11,100
So, I grew up LDS.
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00:07:11,100 --> 00:07:12,480
Ever since I was a little kid,
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I always wanted to go on a mission.
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00:07:13,940 --> 00:07:15,230
Whenever I talked to missionaries,
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00:07:15,230 --> 00:07:17,690
they always seemed very
happy, very just at peace
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00:07:17,690 --> 00:07:19,650
with who they were and
what they were doing.
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00:07:19,650 --> 00:07:22,530
I started having more
problems after an interview
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with my mission president.
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00:07:26,070 --> 00:07:27,870
He just kind of sat me down in a room.
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He was like, "You know, like, Sister Cano,
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00:07:30,370 --> 00:07:32,620
like, you are not--
you're not very feminine."
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00:07:32,620 --> 00:07:35,870
And I kind of was like,
"Yeah, I know that."
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00:07:35,870 --> 00:07:38,380
Like, you don't need to tell me that.
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00:07:38,380 --> 00:07:43,380
He had basically told me
that if I did not fix it,
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if I did not become more feminine
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00:07:45,220 --> 00:07:47,510
and just kind of more appealing,
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like, I don't even know to say it that way,
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that I wouldn't get married
and, like, in the church,
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that's something like if
you don't get married,
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that's gonna impact your
salvation and your future
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and, like, that's what you're here to do.
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It was something that
was very worrisome to me,
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00:08:02,940 --> 00:08:07,160
and I started feeling kind
of bad about how I was
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or how I am.
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♪
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I like how we're just,
like, all on our phones
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but, like, bonding over
a game on our phones,
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and you're just sad in the corner without--
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-I am not sad. -All right,
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let's go cut your hair.
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Okay.
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But I want to connect
with my friends, though.
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-Oh my gosh. -My dad's told me before
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that Christ doesn't care if I'm happy,
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He cares if I have joy.
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I believe the Scripture is 2 Nephi 2:25.
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"Adam fell that men might be; and men are,
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that they might have joy."
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The reference there is joy is like
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something like being
in the presence of God.
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That is like living with Him again
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is what pure joy is,
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and that's what the point of life is,
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is to be close with God again.
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So it doesn't matter if we're, like,
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super happy in this life.
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The point is to get joy in the next life.
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But I'm not, like, I don't care
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00:09:03,050 --> 00:09:05,760
about what heaven will be like.
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I don't, like, I don't care.
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All I really care about is doing good
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00:09:10,890 --> 00:09:12,850
with the people around me right now.
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00:09:12,850 --> 00:09:15,180
It's really important
to me to have integrity
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00:09:15,180 --> 00:09:19,230
and be who I am and not be false.
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00:09:19,230 --> 00:09:20,650
And in order to take care of myself,
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I can't repress myself.
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Not anymore.
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I'm not gonna do it.
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00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:27,990
And, like, I'm not super hidden.
195
00:09:27,990 --> 00:09:30,950
People know that I'm gay and people know,
196
00:09:30,950 --> 00:09:32,410
but I can't hide my relationship
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00:09:32,410 --> 00:09:34,740
from my family anymore,
like, I don't want to.
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00:09:34,740 --> 00:09:35,870
And after that, it's like, okay,
199
00:09:35,870 --> 00:09:37,620
I'm gonna want to be out,
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00:09:37,620 --> 00:09:41,460
but then they're gonna know.
201
00:09:41,460 --> 00:09:43,130
They might stop loving me, and I know
202
00:09:43,130 --> 00:09:45,710
they're not gonna stop loving me,
203
00:09:45,710 --> 00:09:48,220
but, like, what if they do?
204
00:09:48,220 --> 00:09:50,550
My family might get cut off
from me after graduation
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00:09:50,550 --> 00:09:53,680
once I start being a hundred
percent (indistinct).
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00:09:53,680 --> 00:09:55,060
Want me to shave your head now?
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00:09:55,060 --> 00:09:56,310
No.
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00:09:56,310 --> 00:09:58,980
Who's next? Get in line.
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00:09:58,980 --> 00:10:04,360
♪
210
00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:07,530
The way that BYU's Honor Code is right now,
211
00:10:07,530 --> 00:10:10,360
I cannot go to lunch
212
00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:13,370
with my straight best friend
213
00:10:13,370 --> 00:10:15,830
and not worry that someone
is going to see me,
214
00:10:15,830 --> 00:10:17,290
think I'm on a date,
215
00:10:17,290 --> 00:10:19,870
and report me to the Honor Code Office.
216
00:10:19,870 --> 00:10:22,000
The history of the Honor Code
actually goes hand in hand
217
00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:24,460
with the history of
homosexuality at BYU as well.
218
00:10:24,460 --> 00:10:26,590
So the Honor Code really developed
219
00:10:26,590 --> 00:10:30,970
under President Wilkinson back in the '60s.
220
00:10:30,970 --> 00:10:35,050
A great loosening of society's standards
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00:10:35,050 --> 00:10:37,680
have resulted in a serious increase
222
00:10:37,680 --> 00:10:41,060
of homosexual practices in our society.
223
00:10:41,060 --> 00:10:43,690
In a student body of 10,000 members,
224
00:10:43,690 --> 00:10:46,570
we can probably expect to have a few
225
00:10:46,570 --> 00:10:49,360
of these perverted individuals.
226
00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:52,320
The dean of students has been
given instructions this year
227
00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:56,450
that students who engage in
any practice of this kind
228
00:10:56,450 --> 00:11:00,200
will not be tolerated on this campus.
229
00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:03,620
This is the Wilkinson Student Center.
230
00:11:03,620 --> 00:11:07,090
He pretty much lived through the Red Scare
231
00:11:07,090 --> 00:11:10,960
and was deeply concerned
about communism and socialism
232
00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:12,970
and how it would destroy the world.
233
00:11:12,970 --> 00:11:17,510
He decided that he was
going to keep hippies
234
00:11:17,510 --> 00:11:22,270
and communists and homosexuals
out of his university
235
00:11:22,270 --> 00:11:26,770
and make it a place of obedience and...
236
00:11:28,690 --> 00:11:31,190
Yeah, pretty much just obedience, actually.
237
00:11:31,190 --> 00:11:34,950
The wording in the Honor
Code is somewhat ambiguous.
238
00:11:34,950 --> 00:11:37,620
It's not just sexual relations,
239
00:11:37,620 --> 00:11:40,540
but any activity
240
00:11:40,540 --> 00:11:45,540
that gives expression
to homosexual feelings.
241
00:11:45,540 --> 00:11:51,170
♪
242
00:11:51,170 --> 00:11:53,470
-Ready? -Action.
243
00:11:53,470 --> 00:11:55,260
"Brigham Young University will respond
244
00:11:55,260 --> 00:11:57,010
to homosexual behavior
245
00:11:57,010 --> 00:11:59,430
rather than to feelings or attraction,
246
00:11:59,430 --> 00:12:02,100
and welcomes as full members
of the university community
247
00:12:02,100 --> 00:12:04,730
all whose behavior meets
university standards.
248
00:12:04,730 --> 00:12:06,140
Members of the university community
249
00:12:06,140 --> 00:12:07,560
can remain in good Honor Code standing...
250
00:12:07,560 --> 00:12:09,610
...if they conduct their
lives in a manner consistent
251
00:12:09,610 --> 00:12:12,110
with Gospel principles and the Honor Code.
252
00:12:12,110 --> 00:12:13,940
One stated same-gender attraction
253
00:12:13,940 --> 00:12:15,450
is not an Honor Code issue.
254
00:12:15,450 --> 00:12:17,570
However, the Honor Code
requires all members
255
00:12:17,570 --> 00:12:18,870
of the university community...
256
00:12:18,870 --> 00:12:20,280
...to manifest a strict commitment
257
00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:21,620
to a law of chastity.
258
00:12:21,620 --> 00:12:23,370
Homosexual behavior is inappropriate
259
00:12:23,370 --> 00:12:25,080
and violates the Honor Code.
260
00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:28,000
Homosexual behavior includes
not only sexual relations
261
00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:29,580
between members of the same sex...
262
00:12:29,580 --> 00:12:31,250
...but all forms of physical intimacy
263
00:12:31,250 --> 00:12:33,960
that give expression to
homosexual feelings."
264
00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:38,510
♪
265
00:12:38,510 --> 00:12:39,930
I've heard different stories
266
00:12:39,930 --> 00:12:43,140
about what that was supposed to mean,
267
00:12:43,140 --> 00:12:44,640
but as it stands now,
268
00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:48,480
the people that actually
enforce the Honor Code
269
00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:51,400
interpret it to mean any physical contact
270
00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:53,400
between gay people.
271
00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:56,650
So, holding hands, kissing, cuddling.
272
00:12:56,650 --> 00:13:01,280
Even hand shakes, hugs,
or staring too deeply
273
00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:04,160
into the eyes of somebody else
274
00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:07,000
could all be ways of signaling,
275
00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:10,580
uh, you know, homosexual desire.
276
00:13:10,580 --> 00:13:13,920
None of that under the current Honor Code
277
00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:16,260
as it is interpreted by
the people that enforce it
278
00:13:16,260 --> 00:13:18,880
is permissible.
279
00:13:22,010 --> 00:13:24,430
(indistinct chatter)
280
00:13:26,810 --> 00:13:29,190
Don't touch it, don't touch it, stop.
281
00:13:29,190 --> 00:13:31,230
-Stop. -How do they make it, though?
282
00:13:31,230 --> 00:13:32,860
-I don't know. -Didn't you see the sign?
283
00:13:32,860 --> 00:13:34,980
It said they made it with ice-cold water.
284
00:13:34,980 --> 00:13:37,320
I really wasn't planning
on dating another girl,
285
00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:39,490
at least for a while, if at all.
286
00:13:39,490 --> 00:13:42,160
With Lex, we opened that
communication up really well
287
00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:44,450
from the beginning and
we, like, went on dates
288
00:13:44,450 --> 00:13:46,580
and saw if it was actually what we wanted
289
00:13:46,580 --> 00:13:49,750
and everything and, like,
which was really fun and cute.
290
00:13:49,750 --> 00:13:52,960
Now, intentionally
entering the relationship,
291
00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,250
like, there's been a little bit of--
292
00:13:55,250 --> 00:13:56,710
there have been a few times I've been like,
293
00:13:56,710 --> 00:13:58,260
"Ah, what's going on? I don't know
294
00:13:58,260 --> 00:13:59,760
if this is what I'm supposed to be doing."
295
00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:03,600
And I still am not a hundred percent, like,
296
00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:06,600
I don't feel like I've
gotten God's divine answer,
297
00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:08,430
told me yes or not right now.
298
00:14:08,430 --> 00:14:10,850
Um, but I also definitely don't feel like
299
00:14:10,850 --> 00:14:12,270
it's been a no.
300
00:14:12,270 --> 00:14:15,270
Oh, Brynn, so proud.
301
00:14:15,270 --> 00:14:17,150
I'm not ready to leave the church yet.
302
00:14:17,150 --> 00:14:19,320
I have too much hurt wrapped up in it,
303
00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:21,320
too many emotions wrapped up in it.
304
00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:25,410
And leaving right now, for me, would be
305
00:14:25,410 --> 00:14:27,410
not dealing with things.
306
00:14:27,410 --> 00:14:31,370
I don't want to end up
being the lesbian couple
307
00:14:31,370 --> 00:14:34,170
that rediscovers the
church and gets divorced
308
00:14:34,170 --> 00:14:35,580
in order to come back.
309
00:14:35,580 --> 00:14:37,090
And if I don't deal with things beforehand,
310
00:14:37,090 --> 00:14:38,920
I don't know that that won't be me,
311
00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:41,340
um, and I'm not willing to let that be me.
312
00:14:41,340 --> 00:14:42,630
That's not what I want.
313
00:14:42,630 --> 00:14:44,340
And if I choose not to get married
314
00:14:44,340 --> 00:14:46,560
and I choose to stay with
the church, that's fine.
315
00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:48,810
But if I get married, I'm staying married.
316
00:14:51,020 --> 00:14:53,310
Right now, I just need distance from BYU.
317
00:14:53,310 --> 00:14:56,190
I need to be able to be completely open
318
00:14:56,190 --> 00:14:59,230
about my relationship,
including in a church setting.
319
00:14:59,230 --> 00:15:02,740
I need to feel like I can
explore other churches
320
00:15:02,740 --> 00:15:05,910
if I want to, which right now,
that's not an option at all.
321
00:15:05,910 --> 00:15:08,080
♪
322
00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:11,660
When I'm physically with her,
it feels right, it feels good,
323
00:15:11,660 --> 00:15:13,330
it feels like something that is making me
324
00:15:13,330 --> 00:15:16,790
a better person, it feels...
325
00:15:16,790 --> 00:15:19,170
...like the best thing in my life.
326
00:15:19,170 --> 00:15:22,510
I feel like our ability to love
327
00:15:22,510 --> 00:15:23,760
is one of the most precious things
328
00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:26,050
we've been given from God,
329
00:15:26,050 --> 00:15:28,680
and I don't understand
why He would've given
330
00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:29,760
the ability to love,
331
00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,180
not just to lust or to whatever,
332
00:15:32,180 --> 00:15:34,940
but, like, to genuinely love someone else
333
00:15:34,940 --> 00:15:38,480
and say that that's wrong
doesn't make sense to me.
334
00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:42,320
And I've become a better person
335
00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:46,410
by being in a relationship,
by loving people,
336
00:15:46,410 --> 00:15:50,120
so why would that not be
what God wants for me?
337
00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:52,080
(indistinct chatter)
338
00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:55,460
I don't know, like...
339
00:15:55,460 --> 00:15:57,500
I think I'm just so
excited that I've, like,
340
00:15:57,500 --> 00:16:00,380
passed my limit of excitedness,
341
00:16:00,380 --> 00:16:03,090
and now I'm just...
342
00:16:03,090 --> 00:16:04,340
I don't know.
343
00:16:04,340 --> 00:16:06,340
What do you know about hormones?
344
00:16:06,340 --> 00:16:08,600
Um, about as much as the internet
345
00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:09,680
can tell you, I think.
346
00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:11,060
Well, that's where all that came from,
347
00:16:11,060 --> 00:16:13,810
so that's pretty much
everything you need to know.
348
00:16:13,810 --> 00:16:16,390
How do--I always ask
everybody that walks in here,
349
00:16:16,390 --> 00:16:17,730
"How do you identify?"
350
00:16:17,730 --> 00:16:19,650
Like, how do you identify yourself?
351
00:16:19,650 --> 00:16:21,980
-As a transgender male. -Okay, so fully
352
00:16:21,980 --> 00:16:24,320
on the other side of the spectrum
353
00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:26,450
or the infinity of gender, right?
354
00:16:26,450 --> 00:16:27,610
Right, somewhere over there.
355
00:16:27,610 --> 00:16:29,200
It's just a big step, you know?
356
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:32,370
And, then, I'm scared of getting kicked out
357
00:16:32,370 --> 00:16:35,620
or having, you know, or
having housing problems
358
00:16:35,620 --> 00:16:37,540
and all that jazz, but...
359
00:16:37,540 --> 00:16:39,000
Okay, that's about 0.4,
360
00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:41,920
where you want to inject every week, okay?
361
00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:44,630
-So do you see my half line? -Okay, yeah.
362
00:16:44,630 --> 00:16:46,590
Then you go right above that line.
363
00:16:46,590 --> 00:16:48,550
-Yeah. -Okay.
364
00:16:48,550 --> 00:16:51,680
You know, there's this page on the LDS.org,
365
00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:53,560
something of missionaries
with, like, examples
366
00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:55,020
of what missionaries should look like.
367
00:16:55,020 --> 00:16:57,980
So, I was given as part of my study
368
00:16:57,980 --> 00:17:00,190
to go on that page and to look at them
369
00:17:00,190 --> 00:17:03,530
and see if I could copy how they were,
370
00:17:03,530 --> 00:17:05,490
so that was interesting.
371
00:17:05,490 --> 00:17:08,030
My mission president
told me to pay attention
372
00:17:08,030 --> 00:17:10,860
to how they stood and how
they-- like, their stance.
373
00:17:10,860 --> 00:17:12,910
He's like, "You know, when
you stand, when you sit,
374
00:17:12,910 --> 00:17:15,700
when you gesture, when you talk, that's--
375
00:17:15,700 --> 00:17:18,540
it's not--it's not okay," is what he said.
376
00:17:18,540 --> 00:17:21,210
It's like I got the idea
that it was almost offensive,
377
00:17:21,210 --> 00:17:24,460
like, that's how--and, you
know, I was just like...
378
00:17:24,460 --> 00:17:26,630
Like, I just felt so...
379
00:17:26,630 --> 00:17:28,930
-I can't. -Okay, but just remember,
380
00:17:28,930 --> 00:17:30,300
you have to do this by yourself, okay?
381
00:17:30,300 --> 00:17:33,720
So don't even think about
it, and I just want you...
382
00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:35,600
Okay.
383
00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:37,770
Okay, so all I want you
to do is just to take
384
00:17:37,770 --> 00:17:39,770
a deep breath in...
385
00:17:39,770 --> 00:17:41,520
And, so, he was like,
"And this is the thing
386
00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:42,940
you need to change, but don't worry.
387
00:17:42,940 --> 00:17:45,070
With plans and with goals and, you know,
388
00:17:45,070 --> 00:17:46,110
we can change this."
389
00:17:46,110 --> 00:17:47,400
And I was like...
390
00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:48,860
I'm thinking in my head,
thinking, "I don't know
391
00:17:48,860 --> 00:17:50,410
if I want to change this."
392
00:17:50,410 --> 00:17:52,160
Yeah, I'm also just happy.
393
00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:54,990
Okay, that's a good feeling, though.
394
00:17:54,990 --> 00:18:00,870
♪
395
00:18:00,870 --> 00:18:03,920
(indistinct chatter)
396
00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:05,340
So, USGA stands for
397
00:18:05,340 --> 00:18:07,800
Understanding Same-Gender Attraction.
398
00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:09,470
It does not, however, stand for
399
00:18:09,470 --> 00:18:12,720
the United States Golf Association.
400
00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:13,850
So, a little bit about us.
401
00:18:13,850 --> 00:18:15,310
Like I said, we are an unofficial group
402
00:18:15,310 --> 00:18:17,890
which means we are not an official club.
403
00:18:17,890 --> 00:18:19,560
We do not get money from the university.
404
00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:22,900
We do not get support from
the university at all.
405
00:18:22,900 --> 00:18:25,940
USGA is also the reason why I stay at BYU.
406
00:18:25,940 --> 00:18:28,820
It's been my support system.
407
00:18:28,820 --> 00:18:32,030
It's been my family, been my friends.
408
00:18:33,950 --> 00:18:39,120
It's been the thing that
gets me through the week,
409
00:18:39,120 --> 00:18:42,500
thinking that I have this place to go.
410
00:18:42,500 --> 00:18:45,420
(indistinct chatter)
411
00:18:47,750 --> 00:18:50,380
Hello, everyone, and welcome to USGA!
412
00:18:50,380 --> 00:18:51,720
My name is J.D. Goates.
413
00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,180
I'm the president of USGA.
414
00:18:54,180 --> 00:18:57,850
Here we have Gabe Cano, Liza Holdaway,
415
00:18:57,850 --> 00:18:59,220
and Sabina Mendoza,
416
00:18:59,220 --> 00:19:00,930
all of the wonderful presidency members
417
00:19:00,930 --> 00:19:02,560
here to help you.
418
00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:04,020
We're so glad that you could join us
419
00:19:04,020 --> 00:19:07,230
for our opening semester barbecue social.
420
00:19:07,230 --> 00:19:12,240
So, USGA is an organization
of BYU students.
421
00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:15,660
It is an unofficial group,
meaning it is not affiliated
422
00:19:15,660 --> 00:19:17,160
with the university whatsoever,
423
00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:20,450
but it is a group specifically devoted
424
00:19:20,450 --> 00:19:24,540
to serving and improving
and saving the lives
425
00:19:24,540 --> 00:19:27,460
of LGBTQ and SSA,
426
00:19:27,460 --> 00:19:30,340
same-sex attracted students, at BYU.
427
00:19:30,340 --> 00:19:34,050
We began in 2010.
428
00:19:34,050 --> 00:19:35,340
It started out very small,
429
00:19:35,340 --> 00:19:39,850
meaning maybe 8 to 12 people tops,
430
00:19:39,850 --> 00:19:42,770
and it eventually started growing.
431
00:19:42,770 --> 00:19:45,100
(indistinct chatter)
432
00:19:45,100 --> 00:19:48,110
To me, right now, USGA is
functioning as a band-aid
433
00:19:48,110 --> 00:19:52,530
for a huge problem at BYU,
within the church in general.
434
00:19:52,530 --> 00:19:56,320
LGBTQ people are born
into Mormon households.
435
00:19:56,320 --> 00:20:00,410
Most people inside Mormonism
are not well-educated
436
00:20:00,410 --> 00:20:01,830
on LGBT issues, they don't know
437
00:20:01,830 --> 00:20:03,540
how to treat LGBT people.
438
00:20:03,540 --> 00:20:05,370
It's just inherently there's tension
439
00:20:05,370 --> 00:20:08,460
and friction there, and that
causes a lot of problems.
440
00:20:08,460 --> 00:20:12,340
So, inevitably, queer kids end up at BYU,
441
00:20:12,340 --> 00:20:15,340
and all of the issues of being
just a normal college student
442
00:20:15,340 --> 00:20:17,930
are then compounded with being queer
443
00:20:17,930 --> 00:20:20,810
in a religious organization
at a religious university,
444
00:20:20,810 --> 00:20:24,230
and that causes a lot of
negative side effects,
445
00:20:24,230 --> 00:20:26,230
mental health issues, all sorts of things.
446
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:31,730
Back at BYU, I feel alone,
447
00:20:31,730 --> 00:20:35,400
I feel unwanted,
448
00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:39,620
I feel like everything I
do is going to be watched
449
00:20:39,620 --> 00:20:41,120
and evaluated on a different level
450
00:20:41,120 --> 00:20:42,290
than it would be for anyone else
451
00:20:42,290 --> 00:20:44,330
because I'm the gay kid.
452
00:20:44,330 --> 00:20:47,790
USGA feels safe and warm and loving,
453
00:20:47,790 --> 00:20:49,670
and they want me there,
454
00:20:49,670 --> 00:20:52,630
and it's not conditional.
455
00:20:52,630 --> 00:20:54,920
And, so, to get to BYU
and have these people
456
00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,470
who understood my religious experiences,
457
00:20:57,470 --> 00:21:01,260
understood my sexuality experiences,
458
00:21:01,260 --> 00:21:05,350
they get it, and that's really neat to see,
459
00:21:05,350 --> 00:21:08,770
that I can exist through
this, and I have a future
460
00:21:08,770 --> 00:21:11,560
because they've been able to make it.
461
00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:16,780
I probably wouldn't be alive, literally,
462
00:21:16,780 --> 00:21:20,370
if I didn't have USGA and
I tried to stay at BYU.
463
00:21:21,950 --> 00:21:23,950
My goal when I became USGA president
464
00:21:23,950 --> 00:21:26,540
was to get USGA back on campus
465
00:21:26,540 --> 00:21:29,580
because USGA started on campus.
466
00:21:29,580 --> 00:21:32,170
So, USGA got kicked off
campus in the end of 2012,
467
00:21:32,170 --> 00:21:33,750
beginning of 2013.
468
00:21:33,750 --> 00:21:35,420
That was this whole big mess
469
00:21:35,420 --> 00:21:39,300
involving the church
headquarters in Salt Lake.
470
00:21:39,300 --> 00:21:40,970
So, one of the frustrating things
471
00:21:40,970 --> 00:21:43,350
when I became USGA
president is I have learned
472
00:21:43,350 --> 00:21:44,970
all of this information firsthand
473
00:21:44,970 --> 00:21:47,390
from the presidency, who
had been in the presidency
474
00:21:47,390 --> 00:21:49,940
when USGA was kicked off campus,
475
00:21:49,940 --> 00:21:51,850
from Senator Dabakis himself,
476
00:21:51,850 --> 00:21:54,150
from anybody who I knew who
had first-person knowledge
477
00:21:54,150 --> 00:21:55,480
of some of those events.
478
00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:57,990
And I would bring that information
479
00:21:57,990 --> 00:21:59,610
and knowledge with me into my meetings,
480
00:21:59,610 --> 00:22:02,030
and I would say, well, you
know, blah, blah, blah,
481
00:22:02,030 --> 00:22:03,830
"USGA was kicked off campus,"
482
00:22:03,830 --> 00:22:06,200
and, inevitably, every
single administrator,
483
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:08,410
if I talked to them about
it, they would push back
484
00:22:08,410 --> 00:22:09,710
or they would deflect, or they would say,
485
00:22:09,710 --> 00:22:12,330
"Well, that's not how I
understood it happening,"
486
00:22:12,330 --> 00:22:13,380
or whatever.
487
00:22:13,380 --> 00:22:15,500
And, so, when the Working Group started,
488
00:22:15,500 --> 00:22:17,300
in my mind, it was like, "Okay, we need
489
00:22:17,300 --> 00:22:21,590
to figure out a way to
get USGA back on campus."
490
00:22:21,590 --> 00:22:25,050
So, I submitted the application for a club.
491
00:22:25,050 --> 00:22:29,060
My idea was that it would be geared
492
00:22:29,060 --> 00:22:32,560
towards changing the
overall culture on campus.
493
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:34,400
So it wouldn't necessarily be a group
494
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:36,570
for gay people to come together,
495
00:22:36,570 --> 00:22:39,690
although, inevitably, it would
have many gay people in it,
496
00:22:39,690 --> 00:22:41,400
LGBT people, in general.
497
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,870
So I submitted that, and I was called in
498
00:22:44,870 --> 00:22:48,660
by the dean of students, student life,
499
00:22:48,660 --> 00:22:52,120
and I found out that there's actually--
500
00:22:52,120 --> 00:22:53,670
then, it was called a "task force,"
501
00:22:53,670 --> 00:22:55,790
now, I believe it's called the "work group"
502
00:22:55,790 --> 00:22:58,130
of people that had come together
503
00:22:58,130 --> 00:23:01,590
and were discussing how they
can actually improve life
504
00:23:01,590 --> 00:23:03,510
for LGBT students at BYU.
505
00:23:03,510 --> 00:23:12,520
♪
506
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:14,230
So they met for a long time,
507
00:23:14,230 --> 00:23:17,360
they met with a bunch
of different students,
508
00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:20,110
including the USGA presidency,
509
00:23:20,110 --> 00:23:23,610
and then various other
students throughout campus.
510
00:23:23,610 --> 00:23:26,530
What they've done now to this point
511
00:23:26,530 --> 00:23:29,740
is that they took my
proposal and changed it.
512
00:23:29,740 --> 00:23:31,830
Again, there are a whole
bunch of administrators
513
00:23:31,830 --> 00:23:33,620
who are all straight.
514
00:23:33,620 --> 00:23:35,500
I think that they're, for the most part,
515
00:23:35,500 --> 00:23:39,000
well-intentioned, but they have
516
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,760
a limited understanding of the issue.
517
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,720
Allies were how I survived.
518
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:49,100
So, here are my tips and
tricks to being a good ally.
519
00:23:49,100 --> 00:23:53,230
As an ally, your job is to
essentially be a microphone.
520
00:23:53,230 --> 00:23:56,900
You are to amplify the
voices of LGBTQ people,
521
00:23:56,900 --> 00:23:59,020
not wash them out.
522
00:23:59,020 --> 00:24:01,150
As an ally, you should work and speak
523
00:24:01,150 --> 00:24:05,410
with LGBTQ individuals instead of for them.
524
00:24:05,410 --> 00:24:08,070
"With" means you see LGBTQ individuals
525
00:24:08,070 --> 00:24:12,330
as resourceful, as equals,
526
00:24:12,330 --> 00:24:16,500
as people who deserve to have a voice.
527
00:24:16,500 --> 00:24:18,920
I've talked with J.D. about his concerns
528
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:20,800
and about this group, and I think
529
00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,550
that they're very valid concerns, honestly.
530
00:24:23,550 --> 00:24:27,340
He's afraid that if they create this group,
531
00:24:27,340 --> 00:24:30,720
USGA is destroyed because people will go
532
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:32,680
to that official venue instead,
533
00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:34,810
and then they control that venue.
534
00:24:34,810 --> 00:24:37,940
They could at any point
just try to get rid of it.
535
00:24:37,940 --> 00:24:39,610
Whatever reasons they may give,
536
00:24:39,610 --> 00:24:42,780
they could destroy that,
and USGA then would be gone
537
00:24:42,780 --> 00:24:45,360
and it would be very difficult
to start it back up again
538
00:24:45,360 --> 00:24:47,820
after it has lost momentum.
539
00:24:47,820 --> 00:24:49,990
One of the critical issues
540
00:24:49,990 --> 00:24:52,030
that the Working Group was grappling with
541
00:24:52,030 --> 00:24:55,370
was the very real divide there is
542
00:24:55,370 --> 00:24:57,710
in the LGBT community at BYU.
543
00:24:57,710 --> 00:24:59,130
There are people who have been involved
544
00:24:59,130 --> 00:25:01,290
and invested in USGA,
545
00:25:01,290 --> 00:25:03,500
have been in leadership positions in USGA
546
00:25:03,500 --> 00:25:05,720
and have been working on that
for years and years and years.
547
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:07,220
And, then, there are
548
00:25:07,220 --> 00:25:09,340
typically more conservative LGBTQ students.
549
00:25:09,340 --> 00:25:11,430
Often, they don't use-- they don't take
550
00:25:11,430 --> 00:25:13,560
an identity like LGBT.
551
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:15,520
They'll say "same-sex attracted."
552
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,140
They're usually earlier on
in their coming out process.
553
00:25:18,140 --> 00:25:20,560
A lot of them are very convinced
554
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:22,480
that they will stay in
the church long-term,
555
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,570
and a good number of them are pursuing
556
00:25:25,570 --> 00:25:27,900
mixed-orientation
relationships and marriages.
557
00:25:27,900 --> 00:25:30,410
And those two camps, their narratives
558
00:25:30,410 --> 00:25:32,030
are inherently threatening to each other.
559
00:25:32,030 --> 00:25:33,790
And so they haven't really gotten along,
560
00:25:33,790 --> 00:25:35,620
we haven't really gotten along very well.
561
00:25:35,620 --> 00:25:36,910
And, so, the Working Group
562
00:25:36,910 --> 00:25:38,750
was really cognizant of that issue
563
00:25:38,750 --> 00:25:40,790
and was trying to figure out a way
564
00:25:40,790 --> 00:25:42,420
that if we're gonna do something at BYU
565
00:25:42,420 --> 00:25:44,710
that's officially BYU
sponsored and sanctioned,
566
00:25:44,710 --> 00:25:47,380
it has to be for all queer BYU students.
567
00:25:47,380 --> 00:25:51,180
Now, BYU wants to form
568
00:25:51,180 --> 00:25:55,470
its own LGTBQ group
569
00:25:55,470 --> 00:25:58,430
and not take in USGA.
570
00:25:58,430 --> 00:26:03,560
And the common reason is
because by taking in USGA,
571
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,110
it would act as a barrier of inclusion
572
00:26:06,110 --> 00:26:10,070
to people who don't go to USGA.
573
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:17,450
Meaning, so there are "dozens and dozens"
574
00:26:17,450 --> 00:26:22,000
of people that have talked
to the administration
575
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,920
about how they would feel
like BYU was abandoning them
576
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,510
if they brought in USGA.
577
00:26:28,510 --> 00:26:30,340
"Dozens and dozens."
578
00:26:32,180 --> 00:26:35,640
I believe that there are a
lot of people that think that,
579
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:39,350
but their belief is that this mentality
580
00:26:39,350 --> 00:26:44,110
is the majority of the
LGBTQ campus population,
581
00:26:44,110 --> 00:26:46,570
and I don't buy that at all.
582
00:26:46,570 --> 00:26:49,190
We're not trying to convince
anyone to leave the church.
583
00:26:49,190 --> 00:26:51,450
Everyone is still allowed
to make their own choices,
584
00:26:51,450 --> 00:26:54,280
and we don't really
advocate for any choices.
585
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,490
USGA as a group is like
pro-BYU and pro-LDS Church,
586
00:26:57,490 --> 00:26:58,790
but other than that, we don't really have
587
00:26:58,790 --> 00:27:00,870
political or ideological stances
588
00:27:00,870 --> 00:27:02,250
or things that we advocate for.
589
00:27:02,250 --> 00:27:06,090
And that neutrality is something
590
00:27:06,090 --> 00:27:10,010
that BYU is obviously--
has a hard time with.
591
00:27:10,010 --> 00:27:12,720
BYU is not a neutral institution.
592
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:17,140
I mean, really, BYU exists
because the church wants
593
00:27:17,140 --> 00:27:18,760
well-educated individuals
594
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:20,560
who are committed to their faith
595
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:21,850
to go out into the world,
596
00:27:21,850 --> 00:27:24,480
to be emissaries for the LDS church
597
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,320
and to be successful and, then, hopefully,
598
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:28,980
you know, be able to
contribute back to the church,
599
00:27:28,980 --> 00:27:30,900
to their communities, to the country.
600
00:27:30,900 --> 00:27:35,490
And neutrality doesn't fit
into that mission very well.
601
00:27:35,490 --> 00:27:39,490
But this would be, again,
potentially game changing
602
00:27:39,490 --> 00:27:42,460
because USGA, as long
as it is on the fringe,
603
00:27:42,460 --> 00:27:45,830
will be doing good for LGBT people.
604
00:27:45,830 --> 00:27:49,960
It will help them be stronger and happier
605
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,550
and get them through BYU or out of BYU,
606
00:27:52,550 --> 00:27:54,720
whatever they feel like they need to do.
607
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:59,180
But it's not going to
have the long-term power
608
00:27:59,180 --> 00:28:02,640
of institutional change,
and I think that this group
609
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:06,480
could be a fairly significant
step towards that.
610
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:08,400
So, I personally think
611
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,400
it's worth the risk of creating.
612
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:18,070
♪
613
00:28:18,070 --> 00:28:20,580
(laughing)
614
00:28:20,580 --> 00:28:25,040
♪
615
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,460
At this point, there
is no longer a question
616
00:28:27,460 --> 00:28:30,630
of whether a group is
being formed on campus
617
00:28:30,630 --> 00:28:32,250
by the BYU administration.
618
00:28:32,250 --> 00:28:35,470
So this is not the question
that is up for debate.
619
00:28:35,470 --> 00:28:37,010
It is yes happening.
620
00:28:37,010 --> 00:28:39,680
Definitely yes happening,
for sure, we did it.
621
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:41,180
If there is a group being formed,
622
00:28:41,180 --> 00:28:44,730
the question is, what
role does USGA play in it?
623
00:28:44,730 --> 00:28:47,400
And the question is, should
we be a part of this,
624
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:51,440
or should we try and exist opposingly?
625
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,360
One thing that I had
said to the Working Group
626
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:57,490
is that anything that does not
include the merging of USGA
627
00:28:57,490 --> 00:28:59,780
in some form, we will not support.
628
00:28:59,780 --> 00:29:01,530
I'll be honest, I got a little frustrated
629
00:29:01,530 --> 00:29:03,160
because it didn't feel like they were.
630
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,710
They kept asking, "Well,
what does USGA want?"
631
00:29:05,710 --> 00:29:07,670
And I kept--and I'd
always been telling them.
632
00:29:07,670 --> 00:29:08,670
It's interesting because it could be
633
00:29:08,670 --> 00:29:10,210
super, super great.
634
00:29:10,210 --> 00:29:12,500
Um, you know, to have this on-campus thing,
635
00:29:12,500 --> 00:29:14,880
it could be, you know,
publicly advertised on campus.
636
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:16,760
I'd really love for, you know, USGA to be
637
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,090
as much a part of it as we can
and to be able to say like,
638
00:29:19,090 --> 00:29:21,220
"Hey, we are, you know, coming on to campus
639
00:29:21,220 --> 00:29:23,180
to create this new group,"
640
00:29:23,180 --> 00:29:25,020
and to be able to actually, like, merge it.
641
00:29:25,020 --> 00:29:27,980
I really strongly do
feel that it is worth it
642
00:29:27,980 --> 00:29:29,980
to make a group on campus.
643
00:29:29,980 --> 00:29:31,730
We'll have a much wider audience
644
00:29:31,730 --> 00:29:34,320
if we're able to be on
campus, to advertise on campus
645
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,450
to be at Clubs Night, to
be able to put up posters
646
00:29:37,450 --> 00:29:39,360
and stuff on bulletin boards around campus,
647
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,530
to be able to talk to
those incoming freshmen
648
00:29:41,530 --> 00:29:43,160
and say, "Hey, this is a group,
649
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,290
you know, if you're
LGBTQ, you belong here."
650
00:29:45,290 --> 00:29:46,910
And so, like, this is a big deal.
651
00:29:46,910 --> 00:29:49,210
So, an on-campus group
is definitely happening.
652
00:29:49,210 --> 00:29:50,670
There's a lot of difficulties.
653
00:29:50,670 --> 00:29:53,500
If USGA, you know, tried
to remain separate,
654
00:29:53,500 --> 00:29:55,000
one of the two would die.
655
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:56,760
It'd be really sad if USGA died.
656
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:58,840
It'd also be really sad if
the on-campus thing died
657
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,680
because then, in the future,
BYU administration could say,
658
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:03,510
"Oh, well, we tried and no one cared."
659
00:30:03,510 --> 00:30:05,140
I just keep coming back to this question:
660
00:30:05,140 --> 00:30:08,350
what is it about USGA that
it cannot exist on campus?
661
00:30:08,350 --> 00:30:10,020
I can give you the roundabout answer
662
00:30:10,020 --> 00:30:10,980
that they've given me
663
00:30:10,980 --> 00:30:12,520
that hasn't really said anything,
664
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:16,860
but my interpretation of the
answer is discrimination.
665
00:30:16,860 --> 00:30:17,860
What they're saying is,
666
00:30:17,860 --> 00:30:19,360
"You're not good enough as you are,
667
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:21,280
so we're gonna make something for you,
668
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,780
and if you don't want it, then screw you."
669
00:30:23,780 --> 00:30:28,750
Especially because we've been
applying to be on campus.
670
00:30:28,750 --> 00:30:31,540
And it's hurtful, it's a slap in the face.
671
00:30:31,540 --> 00:30:35,170
Um, I also see an issue of polarization.
672
00:30:35,170 --> 00:30:38,420
I see an issue of this on-campus group
673
00:30:38,420 --> 00:30:41,840
would become the "church
gays," if you will,
674
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,180
and an off-campus group would become
675
00:30:44,180 --> 00:30:47,560
a "anti-church gays."
676
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:51,230
So I said, "Okay, let's
do a listening Toulmin.
677
00:30:51,230 --> 00:30:55,980
Why don't you come to USGA
and we have this listening?"
678
00:30:55,980 --> 00:30:58,650
So one of the things that I said is,
679
00:30:58,650 --> 00:31:01,700
"This meeting has to be
completely confidential."
680
00:31:01,700 --> 00:31:03,820
Whatever you say on Thursday,
681
00:31:03,820 --> 00:31:05,700
I want it to be your own opinion,
682
00:31:05,700 --> 00:31:07,330
and I want you to be honest.
683
00:31:07,330 --> 00:31:10,290
I wouldn't necessarily suggest being like,
684
00:31:10,290 --> 00:31:12,410
"Oh, hey, I have a girlfriend,"
685
00:31:12,410 --> 00:31:14,380
unless it is like extreme--
686
00:31:14,380 --> 00:31:17,460
like you feel that it is
687
00:31:17,460 --> 00:31:21,880
like the linchpin to your
argument or your story.
688
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,640
It's annoying and it's horrible,
689
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:26,260
but we kind of have to know our audience,
690
00:31:26,260 --> 00:31:27,350
and we're going in here,
691
00:31:27,350 --> 00:31:29,060
and they already are scared of us
692
00:31:29,060 --> 00:31:31,430
and don't understand us
and think that we are like
693
00:31:31,430 --> 00:31:34,520
this anti-church crazed people.
694
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:35,770
And that's how they've grown up
695
00:31:35,770 --> 00:31:36,980
and that's everything they've been taught,
696
00:31:36,980 --> 00:31:39,360
so I think it's gonna
be our job to show them
697
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,190
that we are--a lot of us
are very spiritual people.
698
00:31:42,190 --> 00:31:43,320
Well, the problem--
699
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:44,860
I mean, what's really interesting on this
700
00:31:44,860 --> 00:31:47,910
is, like, this could be the only time ever
701
00:31:47,910 --> 00:31:51,000
that a situation like
this ever is experienced
702
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:52,410
where we have a white flag
703
00:31:52,410 --> 00:31:54,960
of literally just share your experience.
704
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:56,580
That's never gonna happen again.
705
00:31:56,580 --> 00:31:58,040
You can't just walk into
the Honor Code Office
706
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,550
and be like, "Hey, I don't trust you."
707
00:32:00,550 --> 00:32:04,720
Like, you may live in fear constantly
708
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:06,550
of my existence, but you can't do that.
709
00:32:06,550 --> 00:32:09,220
And so, like, everything has to come out
710
00:32:09,220 --> 00:32:11,640
of this meeting.
711
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,560
Are they gonna explain
what they're planning on?
712
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:16,560
Like, if they're gonna say,
"We're gonna have committees,
713
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:18,110
we're gonna have activities,
we're gonna have..."
714
00:32:18,110 --> 00:32:20,020
-None of that is planned. -Let me tell you
715
00:32:20,020 --> 00:32:22,320
exactly what they're gonna say to that:
716
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,610
"I don't know what it's gonna look like.
717
00:32:25,610 --> 00:32:28,950
It's gonna be whatever
the students decide it
718
00:32:28,950 --> 00:32:29,950
to look like."
719
00:32:29,950 --> 00:32:32,870
(shouting)
720
00:32:32,870 --> 00:32:35,370
(indistinct chatter)
721
00:32:35,370 --> 00:32:36,670
♪
722
00:32:36,670 --> 00:32:38,420
(sighing)
723
00:32:38,420 --> 00:32:40,500
It's really complicated.
724
00:32:40,500 --> 00:32:44,760
I think that the answer to
just change the Honor Code
725
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:48,550
and let gay people date and, you know,
726
00:32:48,550 --> 00:32:51,260
totally open that up
727
00:32:51,260 --> 00:32:56,190
would be nice, but...
728
00:32:56,190 --> 00:32:59,270
...the idea of marriage
between a man and a woman
729
00:32:59,270 --> 00:33:01,190
is so deeply rooted now
730
00:33:01,190 --> 00:33:05,950
in our religious and campus culture
731
00:33:05,950 --> 00:33:07,780
that we can't really just do that
732
00:33:07,780 --> 00:33:09,240
so simplistically.
733
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:13,120
It's gonna take a lot more
734
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,580
before something like
that actually happens.
735
00:33:15,580 --> 00:33:17,000
And, honestly, I don't even know
736
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,380
if it's necessarily the best thing for BYU.
737
00:33:19,380 --> 00:33:21,840
We want to have a diverse campus
738
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,380
where people can feel safe
and they can feel welcome,
739
00:33:25,380 --> 00:33:27,380
but at the same time,
the whole purpose of BYU
740
00:33:27,380 --> 00:33:29,760
is to create a place
741
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:34,520
where people are going to
support church policies,
742
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:36,180
church doctrine,
743
00:33:36,180 --> 00:33:38,770
and that's what makes
BYU special and different
744
00:33:38,770 --> 00:33:44,020
than other state-run
universities, for instance,
745
00:33:44,020 --> 00:33:46,190
and other private universities.
746
00:33:46,190 --> 00:33:51,070
And to allow gay people to, uh,
747
00:33:51,070 --> 00:33:53,660
you know, openly date and marry
748
00:33:53,660 --> 00:33:58,040
would, in some ways, detract
749
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,120
from that ideal.
750
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:01,380
And I think we can't really ignore
751
00:34:01,380 --> 00:34:03,920
the very real consequences
of what these policies do
752
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:05,710
to our students.
753
00:34:05,710 --> 00:34:09,420
They do create a whole
bunch of mental problems,
754
00:34:09,420 --> 00:34:10,680
mental illness,
755
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:14,140
and they do cause people
to commit suicide at times.
756
00:34:14,140 --> 00:34:16,560
But, yeah, as long as our doctrine
757
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:21,400
is that God has said marriage
is between a man and a woman,
758
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,520
uh, I don't know if we really should change
759
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:26,610
the policies on campus
760
00:34:26,610 --> 00:34:29,990
'cause then it wouldn't
really be BYU anymore.
761
00:34:29,990 --> 00:34:32,910
(bells chiming)
762
00:34:35,580 --> 00:34:38,200
(indistinct chatter)
763
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:39,830
You wanted to play games at theme night.
764
00:34:39,830 --> 00:34:43,040
(indistinct chatter)
765
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:44,960
(unintelligible)
766
00:34:46,420 --> 00:34:49,420
We could play PDQ.
767
00:34:49,420 --> 00:34:51,630
I'm really, really bad at it, so...
768
00:34:51,630 --> 00:34:53,180
I'm so good at it that it's like...
769
00:34:53,180 --> 00:34:55,050
Police car.
770
00:34:55,050 --> 00:34:58,020
For so many people, BYU
and Utah, especially,
771
00:34:58,020 --> 00:35:01,020
are, like, the Promised Land
772
00:35:01,020 --> 00:35:04,020
even more than Utah people themselves
773
00:35:04,020 --> 00:35:06,020
see it that way, right?
774
00:35:06,020 --> 00:35:08,320
Like, if you can just make it to Zion,
775
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:09,900
like, everything is gonna be okay.
776
00:35:09,900 --> 00:35:12,530
If you go to BYU,
everything is gonna be okay.
777
00:35:12,530 --> 00:35:14,200
That's how I felt.
778
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:15,910
And then it wasn't.
779
00:35:17,870 --> 00:35:19,330
The first thing BYU needs to do
780
00:35:19,330 --> 00:35:22,160
if they ever want to be a safer space
781
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,420
for queer people, they've got
to get rid of the Honor Code.
782
00:35:24,420 --> 00:35:28,840
Like, or at least really,
really drastically change it.
783
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:30,510
I mean, it's so crappy that at this point,
784
00:35:30,510 --> 00:35:31,840
anything is gonna be an improvement.
785
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:33,470
A clarification on the Honor Code
786
00:35:33,470 --> 00:35:34,680
would be an improvement,
787
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,890
but especially the setup of having
788
00:35:37,890 --> 00:35:39,520
a different Honor Code for queer people
789
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:41,520
than for straight people,
like, is so wrong.
790
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:45,100
Like, they can't even start
doing anything different
791
00:35:45,100 --> 00:35:47,360
until they do that, and they're like,
792
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:49,020
"Hey, we're gonna get this on-campus group
793
00:35:49,020 --> 00:35:50,900
and it's gonna be great," and I'm like,
794
00:35:50,900 --> 00:35:52,360
"How about you do
something actually helpful
795
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:54,280
because we have a group."
796
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,200
I'm on meds, so I should be fine.
797
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:00,080
(unintelligible)
798
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,290
Right? New life motto.
799
00:36:02,290 --> 00:36:05,170
"I'm on meds, so I should be fine."
800
00:36:05,170 --> 00:36:07,960
-I'm on new meds. -Me too.
801
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:10,840
Oh, man.
802
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,760
I'm glad my laugh finally dropped, too.
803
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,010
It was so funny when I would laugh
804
00:36:16,010 --> 00:36:19,970
and then it would be,
like, in my old voice.
805
00:36:19,970 --> 00:36:21,600
Oh, man.
806
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:23,810
Yeah, oh, I'm excited about it.
807
00:36:23,810 --> 00:36:24,850
I'm starting to get a little bit
808
00:36:24,850 --> 00:36:27,190
on, like, the bottom of my jaw.
809
00:36:27,190 --> 00:36:29,480
And then my chin, my chin was longer.
810
00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:31,820
It was quite long, and then I had a meeting
811
00:36:31,820 --> 00:36:33,820
with administration, right?
812
00:36:33,820 --> 00:36:36,700
And, so, actually, I
couldn't bear to shave it
813
00:36:36,700 --> 00:36:38,700
and so I actually took, I was like,
814
00:36:38,700 --> 00:36:39,740
I didn't know if it was gonna work,
815
00:36:39,740 --> 00:36:40,740
so I was like, "If it looks bad,
816
00:36:40,740 --> 00:36:42,160
I'll just shave it off,"
but I took scissors
817
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,710
and I just carefully trimmed around,
818
00:36:44,710 --> 00:36:47,370
and I actually got it all the same height.
819
00:36:47,370 --> 00:36:49,080
It was--I thought I did pretty good.
820
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:51,460
And, so, then, it was really--
it was just really short
821
00:36:51,460 --> 00:36:54,720
and then it wasn't so sad, you know?
822
00:36:54,720 --> 00:36:57,130
(indistinct chatter)
823
00:36:59,260 --> 00:37:03,350
Right, so every week, I can
sing a note lower, like...
824
00:37:03,350 --> 00:37:06,600
-It goes fast. -It does go fast, yeah.
825
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:10,150
So, I went into the court, and I remember
826
00:37:10,150 --> 00:37:12,730
kind of wishing that I'd
brought a friend with me
827
00:37:12,730 --> 00:37:13,980
because it was, like...
828
00:37:13,980 --> 00:37:15,360
I thought it was just gonna be, like, me
829
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:16,650
and the judge or something, but, no,
830
00:37:16,650 --> 00:37:17,990
that place was full.
831
00:37:17,990 --> 00:37:19,490
There were, like, 50 people in there
832
00:37:19,490 --> 00:37:20,950
that the judge had to see.
833
00:37:20,950 --> 00:37:22,490
And they went through, we all have
834
00:37:22,490 --> 00:37:24,660
the same 2:00 appointment,
they were all there,
835
00:37:24,660 --> 00:37:26,210
and they just kept going up and up.
836
00:37:26,210 --> 00:37:27,830
I'd never been to something like this,
837
00:37:27,830 --> 00:37:29,630
like, I'd never watched anything like it,
838
00:37:29,630 --> 00:37:31,670
so it was really interesting, actually.
839
00:37:31,670 --> 00:37:33,090
Anyway, so all the people are going up,
840
00:37:33,090 --> 00:37:35,960
and I ended up being the very last one,
841
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:37,630
which I was grateful for, right,
842
00:37:37,630 --> 00:37:39,550
so I didn't have to be
up in front of everybody
843
00:37:39,550 --> 00:37:41,510
and kind of out myself, you know?
844
00:37:41,510 --> 00:37:44,010
And, you know, the judge
calls you up by name,
845
00:37:44,010 --> 00:37:46,520
but with me, he didn't say my legal name,
846
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:48,190
he just said my last name.
847
00:37:48,190 --> 00:37:50,940
So he was like, "So, now we
will do the Cano matter,"
848
00:37:50,940 --> 00:37:52,440
I think something like
that is how he did it,
849
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:53,900
so he didn't have to say my name
850
00:37:53,900 --> 00:37:55,900
or a Mr. or a Mrs., you know?
851
00:37:55,900 --> 00:37:58,110
So up I went, you know, I was the last one.
852
00:37:58,110 --> 00:37:59,860
He was very nice, he was like, "Hey,
853
00:37:59,860 --> 00:38:01,570
like, it's good to have you here.
854
00:38:01,570 --> 00:38:03,080
I just want to ask you a few questions.
855
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:05,330
So, how's your transition going?"
856
00:38:05,330 --> 00:38:08,830
Used all the right language,
like, perfect, you know?
857
00:38:08,830 --> 00:38:10,870
And I was like, "You know,
it's been going great."
858
00:38:10,870 --> 00:38:13,670
He's like, "So, what
have you done medically
859
00:38:13,670 --> 00:38:15,130
to transition," and I was like, "Oh,
860
00:38:15,130 --> 00:38:17,550
so I started hormones so many months ago."
861
00:38:17,550 --> 00:38:19,340
And he's like, "How has that been for you?"
862
00:38:19,340 --> 00:38:20,470
And I was like, "Oh, it's been great."
863
00:38:20,470 --> 00:38:22,050
And he was like, "Well, great.
864
00:38:22,050 --> 00:38:24,260
So, Mr. Cano, right?"
865
00:38:24,260 --> 00:38:25,140
And I was like, "Yeah."
866
00:38:25,140 --> 00:38:26,140
And he was like, "Okay.
867
00:38:26,140 --> 00:38:27,720
So, that's it.
868
00:38:27,720 --> 00:38:29,560
I'll sign this," blah, blah, blah.
869
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:30,980
It took, like, two minutes.
870
00:38:30,980 --> 00:38:32,980
That's basically the whole thing.
871
00:38:32,980 --> 00:38:34,690
And, then, two days later,
872
00:38:34,690 --> 00:38:36,150
I went and picked up the court order.
873
00:38:36,150 --> 00:38:37,190
The day after that,
874
00:38:37,190 --> 00:38:39,320
I went to the Social Security Office
875
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:41,240
and, like, I just never used to keep
876
00:38:41,240 --> 00:38:43,030
my social security card with me,
877
00:38:43,030 --> 00:38:44,990
and I just, like, I keep it with me
878
00:38:44,990 --> 00:38:47,410
'cause I just like looking
at my name on there.
879
00:38:47,410 --> 00:38:48,660
So I'm really excited about it,
880
00:38:48,660 --> 00:38:50,660
and I show it to just
about everybody who I like,
881
00:38:50,660 --> 00:38:53,040
my social security card.
882
00:38:53,040 --> 00:39:02,970
♪
883
00:39:10,020 --> 00:39:12,350
So this is the Harris Fine Arts Center.
884
00:39:12,350 --> 00:39:17,070
This is the home for a
lot of LGBT students.
885
00:39:17,070 --> 00:39:20,190
Not every place on campus
is as homophobic as others.
886
00:39:20,190 --> 00:39:22,950
My particular department
is actually pretty good.
887
00:39:22,950 --> 00:39:26,240
I'm out to most of my professors.
888
00:39:26,240 --> 00:39:30,080
I can bring up discussions
about queer themes in class
889
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,000
and discussions, and
it's actually really nice
890
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:34,710
to be able to be so open.
891
00:39:34,710 --> 00:39:36,290
And a lot of the people in the HFAC
892
00:39:36,290 --> 00:39:38,590
have a similar case.
893
00:39:38,590 --> 00:39:41,420
But other majors are not so kind.
894
00:39:41,420 --> 00:39:44,680
Math, engineering, the hard sciences,
895
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:46,140
it's actually a lot more difficult
896
00:39:46,140 --> 00:39:47,850
for people in those majors,
897
00:39:47,850 --> 00:39:51,350
and they can often feel, uh, ostracized,
898
00:39:51,350 --> 00:39:53,020
hear homophobic comments from classmates
899
00:39:53,020 --> 00:39:55,850
or even professors.
900
00:39:55,850 --> 00:40:00,820
So, we are, in some
senses, a campus divided.
901
00:40:00,820 --> 00:40:06,280
♪
902
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:08,280
I'm very stressed about tonight.
903
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:10,040
Theoretically, it will be great
904
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:11,870
and it will be the first time we've had
905
00:40:11,870 --> 00:40:15,210
like a white flag and it will be, um,
906
00:40:15,210 --> 00:40:18,130
like this really great kind of like thing
907
00:40:18,130 --> 00:40:19,170
that's never happened before.
908
00:40:19,170 --> 00:40:20,500
We're kind of making history tonight,
909
00:40:20,500 --> 00:40:21,880
the fact that we're coming together
910
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,260
and we are completely safe
to say whatever we want.
911
00:40:24,260 --> 00:40:25,220
That's a big deal.
912
00:40:25,220 --> 00:40:26,760
That's really big.
913
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:29,550
Who knows if it's actually completely true?
914
00:40:29,550 --> 00:40:31,890
I think we probably
still should be careful,
915
00:40:31,890 --> 00:40:34,310
but, theoretically,
like, that's a big deal.
916
00:40:34,310 --> 00:40:37,100
But I've never been excited
about them getting rid of us
917
00:40:37,100 --> 00:40:38,860
to replace us with someone else on campus.
918
00:40:38,860 --> 00:40:40,770
I've just never been happy about it,
919
00:40:40,770 --> 00:40:42,530
never been really okay with it.
920
00:40:42,530 --> 00:40:44,280
And I don't really trust
most of the people involved.
921
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:46,450
They're good people,
922
00:40:46,450 --> 00:40:50,030
but they're not us, I guess.
923
00:40:50,030 --> 00:40:51,910
I'm kind of gonna be attacking them.
924
00:40:51,910 --> 00:40:54,080
I don't trust them, I don't appreciate
925
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:55,580
what they have done till this point.
926
00:40:55,580 --> 00:40:57,170
I mean, I appreciate that they've tried,
927
00:40:57,170 --> 00:40:58,540
but they haven't done enough,
928
00:40:58,540 --> 00:40:59,920
they haven't done it well enough,
929
00:40:59,920 --> 00:41:01,040
and if they really cared,
930
00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:02,500
things would have happened before now.
931
00:41:02,500 --> 00:41:04,510
There's a lot I want to say,
but I don't know if I will
932
00:41:04,510 --> 00:41:07,590
just because I don't want
to get on their bad side
933
00:41:07,590 --> 00:41:08,930
because we need to keep on good terms
934
00:41:08,930 --> 00:41:10,970
if they want to keep working with us.
935
00:41:10,970 --> 00:41:13,390
And it's just playing this game of politics
936
00:41:13,390 --> 00:41:14,520
that I just hate.
937
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:17,060
When this on-campus group starts up,
938
00:41:17,060 --> 00:41:20,480
there isn't really gonna
be demand for two groups.
939
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:22,110
They're not gonna both be sustainable,
940
00:41:22,110 --> 00:41:25,240
so either, you know, USGA will need to move
941
00:41:25,240 --> 00:41:26,820
to this group and support this group,
942
00:41:26,820 --> 00:41:31,240
or if it remains separate,
one of them will die.
943
00:41:31,240 --> 00:41:32,580
But, hopefully, with this discussion,
944
00:41:32,580 --> 00:41:36,040
we can really make sure that
this new on-campus group
945
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:39,830
will be actually a safe
and comfortable place
946
00:41:39,830 --> 00:41:41,170
for the USGA members to go.
947
00:41:41,170 --> 00:41:44,000
Um, okay, so one of the kind of rules
948
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,470
to be here tonight is
that we all need to agree
949
00:41:46,470 --> 00:41:48,510
that nothing said will be shared.
950
00:41:48,510 --> 00:41:51,300
(unintelligible)
951
00:41:51,300 --> 00:41:52,350
...go out and say, oh, well, you know,
952
00:41:52,350 --> 00:41:53,850
so-and-so just said all this.
953
00:41:53,850 --> 00:41:55,520
Please don't do that.
954
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:57,770
We also ask that you not
take anything said tonight
955
00:41:57,770 --> 00:42:01,440
to the Honor Code Office or
to ecclesiastical leaders.
956
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:05,480
We ask that no one take any
audio or visual recording
957
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:06,490
of this meeting.
958
00:42:06,490 --> 00:42:08,110
If that's not something you can agree to,
959
00:42:08,110 --> 00:42:09,530
please step out now.
960
00:42:09,530 --> 00:42:12,570
You can take pencil and paper notes.
961
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:18,040
So, talk to us about what happened tonight.
962
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:19,660
What do you think went well?
963
00:42:19,660 --> 00:42:21,330
What do you wish went better?
964
00:42:21,330 --> 00:42:23,170
That was a lot more emotional
than I thought it was.
965
00:42:23,170 --> 00:42:25,750
Um...
966
00:42:25,750 --> 00:42:27,630
I, like, found myself on the verge of tears
967
00:42:27,630 --> 00:42:29,720
a lot more than I thought
I was going to be.
968
00:42:29,720 --> 00:42:32,180
I'm so mad. I'm so mad!
969
00:42:32,180 --> 00:42:33,850
Um...
970
00:42:33,850 --> 00:42:37,850
We're mixed on if we
should go on campus or not.
971
00:42:37,850 --> 00:42:39,770
We're kind of resigned to it, though.
972
00:42:39,770 --> 00:42:41,810
Um...
973
00:42:41,810 --> 00:42:43,730
We aren't safe.
974
00:42:43,730 --> 00:42:44,770
No one feels safe.
975
00:42:44,770 --> 00:42:46,270
I think that's the general consensus.
976
00:42:46,270 --> 00:42:49,190
-Okay. -I hope they listened.
977
00:42:49,190 --> 00:42:51,490
I wish they would give
a damn 'cause they were
978
00:42:51,490 --> 00:42:53,410
just sitting there and
be like, "Okay, yes."
979
00:42:53,410 --> 00:42:56,080
Like, "Okay, sure, okay."
980
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:58,040
They looked so distant and so separated.
981
00:42:58,040 --> 00:42:59,870
This isn't fucking about you.
982
00:42:59,870 --> 00:43:01,210
This is not...
983
00:43:01,210 --> 00:43:02,370
Like, this is a fucking big deal.
984
00:43:02,370 --> 00:43:03,790
Can you not tell?
985
00:43:03,790 --> 00:43:06,130
Did you not feel that like I did?
986
00:43:06,130 --> 00:43:07,500
It's like missionaries sitting in the room
987
00:43:07,500 --> 00:43:09,010
where they're just like,
"The spirit was so strong,"
988
00:43:09,010 --> 00:43:10,010
and the person sitting
in there is just like,
989
00:43:10,010 --> 00:43:11,050
"I don't feel it."
990
00:43:11,050 --> 00:43:12,720
Like, it's that level of offensiveness
991
00:43:12,720 --> 00:43:14,720
that I feel right now.
992
00:43:14,720 --> 00:43:17,510
Like, I hope to death that they felt that
993
00:43:17,510 --> 00:43:19,100
and that it made a difference to them
994
00:43:19,100 --> 00:43:21,020
because there was a strong
feeling in that room.
995
00:43:21,020 --> 00:43:22,390
There was so much emotion, so much honesty,
996
00:43:22,390 --> 00:43:23,900
and so much vulnerability
997
00:43:23,900 --> 00:43:26,360
which is stronger than
any spirit out there.
998
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:29,110
And if they did not feel that...
999
00:43:30,900 --> 00:43:32,450
I guess there's not anything
you can do about it,
1000
00:43:32,450 --> 00:43:35,910
but I'll be so fucking pissed.
1001
00:43:49,130 --> 00:43:53,220
So this is the basement of
the Harris Fine Arts Center.
1002
00:43:53,220 --> 00:43:55,640
So this is considered the second
1003
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:58,890
of BYU's witch hunts for gay students.
1004
00:43:58,890 --> 00:44:02,520
BYU Police, the campus's own police force,
1005
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:05,480
came in and pulled out any male student
1006
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:07,560
in theater or ballet,
1007
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:10,530
because they thought that
there was a homosexual ring
1008
00:44:10,530 --> 00:44:12,650
occurring on campus.
1009
00:44:12,650 --> 00:44:14,450
And they would interrogate them
1010
00:44:14,450 --> 00:44:17,280
and ask if they were engaged
in homosexual activity,
1011
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:19,450
if they knew other homosexual people.
1012
00:44:19,450 --> 00:44:21,240
And some people, again, confessed,
1013
00:44:21,240 --> 00:44:23,960
and it didn't end up
terribly well for them.
1014
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:26,790
Other people were silent.
1015
00:44:26,790 --> 00:44:30,300
But BYU Police, particularly
in the late '70s,
1016
00:44:30,300 --> 00:44:32,840
was doing a lot to try and find
1017
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:36,180
and remove homosexual students from BYU.
1018
00:44:36,180 --> 00:44:38,890
They even did sting operations
1019
00:44:38,890 --> 00:44:41,430
where they would put out letters
1020
00:44:41,430 --> 00:44:43,270
in gay newspapers in Salt Lake
1021
00:44:43,270 --> 00:44:48,060
asking if other BYU students
wanted to form a group
1022
00:44:48,060 --> 00:44:49,860
and then find people that responded,
1023
00:44:49,860 --> 00:44:52,480
they would investigate and usually expel.
1024
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:56,780
They even put an undercover
agent, as it were,
1025
00:44:56,780 --> 00:44:59,530
to respond to one of those letters,
1026
00:44:59,530 --> 00:45:02,540
found another gay person, 22 years old.
1027
00:45:02,540 --> 00:45:04,960
This undercover man convinced him
1028
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:08,920
to drive up to Provo Canyon.
1029
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:13,300
When the gay man, young man,
1030
00:45:13,300 --> 00:45:15,920
made sexual advances,
1031
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:18,510
the undercover man cried out
1032
00:45:18,510 --> 00:45:23,220
and brought a swarm of police
onto that guy to remove him,
1033
00:45:23,220 --> 00:45:27,440
and he was charged with forcible sodomy.
1034
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:29,230
Probably wasn't so forcible,
1035
00:45:29,230 --> 00:45:31,190
but that was what they charged him with.
1036
00:45:31,190 --> 00:45:33,730
Sodomy, which was anal and oral sex,
1037
00:45:33,730 --> 00:45:36,440
was illegal in Utah until 2003.
1038
00:45:41,240 --> 00:45:43,830
Yeah, things have be moving remarkably fast
1039
00:45:43,830 --> 00:45:45,540
in the last few decades.
1040
00:45:58,630 --> 00:46:01,430
(cell phone vibrating)
1041
00:46:09,310 --> 00:46:12,310
Um...
1042
00:46:12,310 --> 00:46:13,980
Are you okay?
1043
00:46:20,530 --> 00:46:22,620
Everything is okay right now.
1044
00:46:22,620 --> 00:46:23,660
Are you sure?
1045
00:46:23,660 --> 00:46:25,410
I mean, we're all an emotional wreck,
1046
00:46:25,410 --> 00:46:27,580
but we're safe right now.
1047
00:46:27,580 --> 00:46:29,370
Who was the Honor Code violation called on?
1048
00:46:29,370 --> 00:46:30,870
Was it just you?
1049
00:46:30,870 --> 00:46:31,960
No, all three of us.
1050
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:34,500
-All three of you. -Mhm.
1051
00:46:34,500 --> 00:46:36,050
There's no, technically,
Honor Code right now,
1052
00:46:36,050 --> 00:46:40,130
it's just an Honor Code
violation of housing.
1053
00:46:40,130 --> 00:46:43,180
-Oh, of housing. -Yeah.
1054
00:46:43,180 --> 00:46:44,600
What is your violation, though?
1055
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:46,010
Just not...
1056
00:46:46,010 --> 00:46:49,770
Um, yeah, the letter said something
1057
00:46:49,770 --> 00:46:54,150
about obscene, lewd, or offensive conduct
1058
00:46:54,150 --> 00:46:55,820
or something like that.
1059
00:46:57,940 --> 00:47:04,450
Oh, yeah, "obscene, indecent,
erotic, or offensive."
1060
00:47:04,450 --> 00:47:07,370
I have no idea.
1061
00:47:07,370 --> 00:47:08,870
They won't talk to us, so...
1062
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:15,880
-Hello. -Hello.
1063
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:16,960
Come on in.
1064
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:20,550
Yup, we just haven't heard anything!
1065
00:47:20,550 --> 00:47:23,260
-So weird, right? -Yeah.
1066
00:47:23,260 --> 00:47:25,260
You guys were, like, friends
with most of them, weren't you?
1067
00:47:25,260 --> 00:47:26,430
Yeah.
1068
00:47:28,850 --> 00:47:31,680
We had a meeting with them last Monday
1069
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:34,190
after our ice castle date, and like--
1070
00:47:34,190 --> 00:47:35,610
What were they concerned about?
1071
00:47:35,610 --> 00:47:38,820
Um, "The spirit is gone
from the apartment,"
1072
00:47:38,820 --> 00:47:41,190
-and yeah. -It was a lot.
1073
00:47:41,190 --> 00:47:42,200
It was a lot.
1074
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:44,860
We all had, like, expectations set up
1075
00:47:44,860 --> 00:47:46,620
and what the boundaries were gonna be
1076
00:47:46,620 --> 00:47:49,990
and who was safe and who
wasn't in their lives
1077
00:47:49,990 --> 00:47:52,040
so that we would know when
they were coming over,
1078
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:57,880
and they seemed totally,
100% okay with everything.
1079
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:02,260
But then they moved out two days later
1080
00:48:02,260 --> 00:48:03,510
without talking to us.
1081
00:48:03,510 --> 00:48:06,850
So tomorrow, we've got a meeting with them
1082
00:48:06,850 --> 00:48:10,430
to figure out what's going on,
1083
00:48:10,430 --> 00:48:12,640
'cause they left us all letters.
1084
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:14,270
Property management.
1085
00:48:14,270 --> 00:48:16,650
They all have that.
1086
00:48:16,650 --> 00:48:20,860
They're all, like, stuck in the door.
1087
00:48:20,860 --> 00:48:24,650
With a cute little Raintree Commons header.
1088
00:48:24,650 --> 00:48:27,160
"Three-day notice to comply or vacate.
1089
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:28,490
All students and residents
1090
00:48:28,490 --> 00:48:30,160
shall be required to conduct themselves
1091
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:32,410
in a manner consistent
with the BYU Honor Code,
1092
00:48:32,410 --> 00:48:34,660
including abstaining
from possessing, serving,
1093
00:48:34,660 --> 00:48:36,670
or consuming alcoholic beverages.
1094
00:48:36,670 --> 00:48:39,250
Involvement with gambling, pornographic..."
1095
00:48:39,250 --> 00:48:42,590
the rest of this line is highlighted:
1096
00:48:42,590 --> 00:48:45,260
"...erotic, indecent,
or offensive material,
1097
00:48:45,260 --> 00:48:48,090
obscene or indecent conduct or expressions,
1098
00:48:48,090 --> 00:48:50,350
disorderly or disruptive conduct,
1099
00:48:50,350 --> 00:48:53,060
or any other conduct or action inconsistent
1100
00:48:53,060 --> 00:48:54,520
with the BYU Honor Code.
1101
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:56,140
Students are expected to keep--
1102
00:48:56,140 --> 00:48:58,400
or help their guests and other residents."
1103
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:00,060
Blah, blah, blah, "keep the Honor Code.
1104
00:49:00,060 --> 00:49:02,690
Please be advised, within
three days of this notice,
1105
00:49:02,690 --> 00:49:04,990
you must either one, comply with the terms
1106
00:49:04,990 --> 00:49:07,110
of your contract; two,
vacate the apartment,
1107
00:49:07,110 --> 00:49:08,490
which does not release you
1108
00:49:08,490 --> 00:49:12,120
from your contractual obligation.
1109
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:13,620
We'll follow up if you fail
1110
00:49:13,620 --> 00:49:15,750
to take any of the three steps
listed above by Thursday.
1111
00:49:15,750 --> 00:49:17,210
Action will be taken to evict you
1112
00:49:17,210 --> 00:49:18,630
from the apartment."
1113
00:49:22,300 --> 00:49:25,970
Us being together is "erotic, indecent,
1114
00:49:25,970 --> 00:49:27,680
or offensive material,
1115
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:31,180
obscene or indecent
conduct or expressions."
1116
00:49:31,180 --> 00:49:34,720
On the letter, it said that if
we don't comply or whatever,
1117
00:49:34,720 --> 00:49:36,600
we need to be out by Thursday.
1118
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:38,190
At which point, we'll still be responsible
1119
00:49:38,190 --> 00:49:43,440
for paying rent for the
rest of the contract.
1120
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:45,570
So...
1121
00:49:45,570 --> 00:49:47,700
Let's see what happens!
1122
00:49:47,700 --> 00:49:49,450
In a week, either things
1123
00:49:49,450 --> 00:49:52,780
will be really okay and resolved,
1124
00:49:52,780 --> 00:49:56,790
or they'll be real bad and
we won't be living here.
1125
00:49:56,790 --> 00:49:59,830
And hopefully we'll still be in school.
1126
00:49:59,830 --> 00:50:03,290
♪
1127
00:50:03,290 --> 00:50:06,170
(indistinct singing)
1128
00:50:06,170 --> 00:50:12,850
♪
1129
00:50:12,850 --> 00:50:14,510
Okay.
1130
00:50:14,510 --> 00:50:18,430
Great job, that was very exciting and fun.
1131
00:50:18,430 --> 00:50:21,650
They are interested in doing
another meeting with us.
1132
00:50:21,650 --> 00:50:23,860
The idea is that it would be--
1133
00:50:23,860 --> 00:50:27,530
once the Working Group
has come back together...
1134
00:50:27,530 --> 00:50:29,400
So currently, the end
goal is still the group.
1135
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:30,990
Yeah.
1136
00:50:30,990 --> 00:50:32,660
So they didn't listen.
1137
00:50:32,660 --> 00:50:34,780
Stupid.
1138
00:50:34,780 --> 00:50:38,080
Well, these committees were
decided before the event.
1139
00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:39,580
Yeah.
1140
00:50:39,580 --> 00:50:42,130
Yeah, in our little Working
Group meeting yesterday,
1141
00:50:42,130 --> 00:50:43,420
we were talking about stuff
1142
00:50:43,420 --> 00:50:47,590
and Deb--it was funny
that she brought it up,
1143
00:50:47,590 --> 00:50:49,220
that Deb brought it up, she was like,
1144
00:50:49,220 --> 00:50:50,930
"Well, why can't USGA just cover it all?"
1145
00:50:50,930 --> 00:50:52,260
Did they have an answer for her?
1146
00:50:52,260 --> 00:50:54,050
No, there's no adequate answer ever.
1147
00:50:54,050 --> 00:50:55,810
These people have PhDs!
1148
00:50:55,810 --> 00:50:57,600
These people are college-educated,
1149
00:50:57,600 --> 00:50:58,810
straight white people.
1150
00:50:58,810 --> 00:51:00,310
Why are they not using their privilege
1151
00:51:00,310 --> 00:51:01,770
to not be idiots?
1152
00:51:08,030 --> 00:51:10,400
(laughing)
1153
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:12,860
It's still a mystery/arbitrary mess.
1154
00:51:12,860 --> 00:51:15,450
This wasn't based off of--
and I've been told this,
1155
00:51:15,450 --> 00:51:18,620
this wasn't based off of qualification.
1156
00:51:18,620 --> 00:51:20,370
Why wouldn't it be--
1157
00:51:20,370 --> 00:51:21,790
Right?
1158
00:51:21,790 --> 00:51:23,580
(mixed chatter)
1159
00:51:23,580 --> 00:51:26,040
Why wouldn't we want qualified people?
1160
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:28,880
-I know. -It's based on what Brynn said,
1161
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:32,470
people that made them feel
warm and fuzzy inside.
1162
00:51:32,470 --> 00:51:36,010
-We've done that! -We
have answers for them!
1163
00:51:36,010 --> 00:51:40,100
Start endorsing us and
then work from there.
1164
00:51:40,100 --> 00:51:42,520
They can make a website
that says BYU and Gay
1165
00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:45,900
and whatever the other
political things they want,
1166
00:51:45,900 --> 00:51:48,320
but they need to actually endorse something
1167
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:52,610
that is feasible and existent and helpful.
1168
00:51:52,610 --> 00:51:54,410
Is this a resource for queer students
1169
00:51:54,410 --> 00:51:55,950
or is this a resource for
all the straight people
1170
00:51:55,950 --> 00:51:57,660
to learn how to be okay with us?
1171
00:51:57,660 --> 00:51:59,410
Oh, wow, that's a real good question.
1172
00:51:59,410 --> 00:52:01,910
Write that down.
1173
00:52:01,910 --> 00:52:05,580
I guarantee you that USGA
will not be linked to this
1174
00:52:05,580 --> 00:52:07,250
-in any way, shape, or
form. -This doesn't sound
1175
00:52:07,250 --> 00:52:09,250
like it's for queer people at all.
1176
00:52:09,250 --> 00:52:10,300
What is this for at all?
1177
00:52:10,300 --> 00:52:11,380
It doesn't seem like it has a purpose.
1178
00:52:11,380 --> 00:52:12,760
I would like there to be a page that says,
1179
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:15,090
"Hey, kids, when your roommate
comes out to you, be cool."
1180
00:52:15,090 --> 00:52:16,300
Like, I want that to be on there.
1181
00:52:16,300 --> 00:52:18,050
But this isn't a resource for us.
1182
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:38,160
I can't be as authentically
happy as I want to be
1183
00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:39,910
with my parents.
1184
00:52:39,910 --> 00:52:42,200
Because I feel like-- I still feel like
1185
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:44,210
they might turn me in.
1186
00:52:44,210 --> 00:52:47,710
If I started dating guys
and I did that weird thing,
1187
00:52:47,710 --> 00:52:49,500
and then like was like, "I'm
gonna do the Mormon thing.
1188
00:52:49,500 --> 00:52:50,590
I want to get married in the temple,
1189
00:52:50,590 --> 00:52:51,590
I want to do this,"
1190
00:52:51,590 --> 00:52:53,460
and my parents were so
happy and proud of me.
1191
00:52:53,460 --> 00:52:56,300
And I had their, like-- not their love,
1192
00:52:56,300 --> 00:52:57,430
because I've always had their love,
1193
00:52:57,430 --> 00:53:01,810
but like, they were proud of me.
1194
00:53:01,810 --> 00:53:03,930
And that is something I thought
I would never get again,
1195
00:53:03,930 --> 00:53:07,270
because I would get As, I
would get fives on AP tests,
1196
00:53:07,270 --> 00:53:10,820
I would do well at things, but like...
1197
00:53:10,820 --> 00:53:13,530
but there was always
like, "But you're gay."
1198
00:53:13,530 --> 00:53:15,240
But if I just could get over it,
1199
00:53:15,240 --> 00:53:17,450
then I could have my
parents' approval again
1200
00:53:17,450 --> 00:53:19,160
just like I always had.
1201
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:20,530
I'm like my dad's favorite kid,
1202
00:53:20,530 --> 00:53:24,410
and like, he'll never say that,
1203
00:53:24,410 --> 00:53:27,080
but I was the oldest, or am the oldest,
1204
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:29,500
and there's just that connection there
1205
00:53:29,500 --> 00:53:32,090
that we have that--
1206
00:53:32,090 --> 00:53:33,590
he has different ones with all of his kids,
1207
00:53:33,590 --> 00:53:35,630
but like there's that one that we have.
1208
00:53:35,630 --> 00:53:37,510
And so my dad has always
been very important to me,
1209
00:53:37,510 --> 00:53:39,340
and so the fact that he was proud of me,
1210
00:53:39,340 --> 00:53:40,550
I was just like, oh, my gosh,
1211
00:53:40,550 --> 00:53:43,430
this is like everything I ever wanted.
1212
00:53:43,430 --> 00:53:45,810
I started having anxiety
and that was freaky,
1213
00:53:45,810 --> 00:53:50,350
because I was being
inauthentic to myself again,
1214
00:53:50,350 --> 00:53:52,820
which was so hard, which sucked.
1215
00:53:52,820 --> 00:53:54,980
Trying to, like, live with
pleasing other people,
1216
00:53:54,980 --> 00:53:57,400
I think that's what mostly
caused it to explode.
1217
00:53:57,400 --> 00:53:58,990
Looking in the mirror and
not being happy with myself
1218
00:53:58,990 --> 00:54:00,660
for whatever reason.
1219
00:54:00,660 --> 00:54:02,450
The combination of those things.
1220
00:54:02,450 --> 00:54:05,200
(mixed chatter)
1221
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:07,830
(laughing)
1222
00:54:07,830 --> 00:54:09,870
Yeah, that's her.
1223
00:54:09,870 --> 00:54:10,880
Cute!
1224
00:54:13,340 --> 00:54:14,590
For you to see.
1225
00:54:16,460 --> 00:54:19,010
She's really great, and
really, really good to me,
1226
00:54:19,010 --> 00:54:22,140
which I'm not used to, so...
1227
00:54:34,070 --> 00:54:36,320
All right, so, you're not
in your old apartment.
1228
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:38,530
-What happened? -We're
not in our old apartment.
1229
00:54:38,530 --> 00:54:41,820
We moved mid-school week
and still have been expected
1230
00:54:41,820 --> 00:54:44,030
to get all of our homework
done and everything,
1231
00:54:44,030 --> 00:54:46,490
which has been fine.
1232
00:54:46,490 --> 00:54:48,410
I'm a little bit behind on everything.
1233
00:54:48,410 --> 00:54:54,210
And then on Friday, I think,
1234
00:54:54,210 --> 00:54:59,720
we got--only Lex and I
had these official BYU
1235
00:54:59,720 --> 00:55:01,720
envelopes in the mail.
1236
00:55:01,720 --> 00:55:04,260
And I was like, "This could
be the official notice
1237
00:55:04,260 --> 00:55:05,760
that we're going to hell."
1238
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:06,810
And we open it up,
1239
00:55:06,810 --> 00:55:09,730
and from the BYU Honor Code Office,
1240
00:55:09,730 --> 00:55:12,100
it was this letter from our bishop
1241
00:55:12,100 --> 00:55:17,690
saying that we may have
our endorsements withdrawn
1242
00:55:17,690 --> 00:55:20,240
if we didn't contact him
and figure things out.
1243
00:55:20,240 --> 00:55:22,280
He was basically like, "Okay, so as soon as
1244
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:24,200
you move into your new place,
1245
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:26,950
you need to immediately
contact your new bishop,
1246
00:55:26,950 --> 00:55:28,910
and I will be in contact with him,
1247
00:55:28,910 --> 00:55:31,580
and if you don't talk to
him, then I will make sure
1248
00:55:31,580 --> 00:55:33,210
your endorsement gets withdrawn."
1249
00:55:33,210 --> 00:55:34,500
I don't know how long it takes for him
1250
00:55:34,500 --> 00:55:35,880
to contact the Honor Code Office
1251
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:37,380
and be like, "Hey, withdraw
their endorsements,"
1252
00:55:37,380 --> 00:55:39,510
before they send out the
letter and before we get it
1253
00:55:39,510 --> 00:55:41,760
and all that type of thing,
so he could've sent it out
1254
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:43,300
the day that they decided to move out
1255
00:55:43,300 --> 00:55:46,680
or before then or who knows?
1256
00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:48,760
It's just like, it keeps being
1257
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:51,430
like one more thing after the next,
1258
00:55:51,430 --> 00:55:55,810
so hopefully everything
is settled right now
1259
00:55:55,810 --> 00:55:59,730
and won't be an issue again
after we contact our new bishop.
1260
00:55:59,730 --> 00:56:02,950
But it could also be the next thing
1261
00:56:02,950 --> 00:56:04,490
is a letter from the Honor Code Office
1262
00:56:04,490 --> 00:56:06,620
being like, "Hey, someone
reported you to us
1263
00:56:06,620 --> 00:56:10,660
and now you're on our list to..." whatever.
1264
00:56:10,660 --> 00:56:14,080
Have a hearing for or whatever
it happens to be, so...
1265
00:56:17,080 --> 00:56:18,460
I don't know.
1266
00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:27,260
So this is...
1267
00:56:27,260 --> 00:56:28,550
you know, I only know it by its acronym.
1268
00:56:28,550 --> 00:56:30,260
It's the MARB.
1269
00:56:30,260 --> 00:56:32,180
Hopefully there's no class in here.
1270
00:56:32,180 --> 00:56:33,390
Doesn't look like it.
1271
00:56:35,940 --> 00:56:44,110
So this is where USGA had
its first large panel.
1272
00:56:44,110 --> 00:56:47,950
It was back in 2012,
1273
00:56:47,950 --> 00:56:51,490
and it at first was going to
be a small sociology panel.
1274
00:56:51,490 --> 00:56:53,000
They were just going to invite people
1275
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:55,370
from the sociology department to come in
1276
00:56:55,370 --> 00:56:58,380
and listen to the actual experience
1277
00:56:58,380 --> 00:57:01,340
of LGBT BYU students.
1278
00:57:01,340 --> 00:57:04,220
They made some fliers to help advertise it.
1279
00:57:04,220 --> 00:57:05,550
Basically, it just said,
1280
00:57:05,550 --> 00:57:08,590
"Everything you ever wanted to know
1281
00:57:08,590 --> 00:57:13,520
about gay BYU students but
were too afraid to ask."
1282
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:15,020
It blew up.
1283
00:57:15,020 --> 00:57:18,730
They had a Facebook invite
and the word just got out.
1284
00:57:18,730 --> 00:57:20,650
It was huge.
1285
00:57:20,650 --> 00:57:24,190
Every seat in this room was filled.
1286
00:57:24,190 --> 00:57:28,320
The people were sitting
in between the seats,
1287
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:30,200
everywhere they were standing around,
1288
00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:33,200
and there was a line out both doors
1289
00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:36,750
and the doors behind it,
everybody trying to cram in.
1290
00:57:36,750 --> 00:57:40,670
In the end, somewhere
between 500 and 600 people
1291
00:57:40,670 --> 00:57:42,670
came to this panel.
1292
00:57:42,670 --> 00:57:45,260
And it was really the first of its kind.
1293
00:57:45,260 --> 00:57:47,090
There had been such a strong taboo
1294
00:57:47,090 --> 00:57:51,510
against people speaking
out about their sexuality.
1295
00:57:51,510 --> 00:57:54,560
The fact that they had two gay men,
1296
00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:57,940
a bisexual man, and a lesbian woman
1297
00:57:57,940 --> 00:58:01,400
all sitting together and just talking
1298
00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:06,490
about their own experiences
was really unprecedented.
1299
00:58:06,490 --> 00:58:09,320
I'm kind of nervous there's, um--
1300
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:11,070
they're going to announce it soon,
1301
00:58:11,070 --> 00:58:14,490
but BYU is doing an LGBT panel
1302
00:58:14,490 --> 00:58:16,410
on March 15th.
1303
00:58:16,410 --> 00:58:18,960
And so--no, you haven't heard about it.
1304
00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:20,960
It's, oh, I'm so excited.
1305
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:22,420
I'm going to be one of the panelists
1306
00:58:22,420 --> 00:58:23,500
along with a few others.
1307
00:58:23,500 --> 00:58:25,460
This is like Working Group people,
1308
00:58:25,460 --> 00:58:27,090
so I think I might be the only one
1309
00:58:27,090 --> 00:58:29,010
from USGA on there.
1310
00:58:29,010 --> 00:58:32,260
I think a lot of people
will probably go to this.
1311
00:58:32,260 --> 00:58:36,720
It's gonna be Thursday,
March 15th at 11 and at 7,
1312
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:39,640
so it's gonna take the place
of USGA on that Thursday.
1313
00:58:39,640 --> 00:58:41,060
Every time I think about it,
1314
00:58:41,060 --> 00:58:43,230
my gut, like, flips over,
1315
00:58:43,230 --> 00:58:46,530
because I don't want to come out as trans
1316
00:58:46,530 --> 00:58:48,940
to a bunch of people.
1317
00:58:48,940 --> 00:58:52,280
Somebody needs to come
out as trans at some point
1318
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:55,080
for people to get to know--
so that it can be safe
1319
00:58:55,080 --> 00:58:56,990
for people to come out in the first place,
1320
00:58:56,990 --> 00:58:58,870
there has to be someone.
1321
00:58:58,870 --> 00:59:00,830
I didn't know I was--
that they were thinking
1322
00:59:00,830 --> 00:59:02,710
of putting me on it,
and then Liza was like,
1323
00:59:02,710 --> 00:59:04,540
"Yeah, I think we're gonna
have you on it, Gabe."
1324
00:59:04,540 --> 00:59:07,000
And I was like, "Oh, I'm
the invited heathen,"
1325
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:08,550
or something, you know.
1326
00:59:08,550 --> 00:59:11,180
I'm acting, right, on my transness,
1327
00:59:11,180 --> 00:59:12,970
and so that kind of automatically puts me
1328
00:59:12,970 --> 00:59:14,760
at a certain heathen status.
1329
00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:16,260
You know, if we want to use that word,
1330
00:59:16,260 --> 00:59:17,640
I know it's kind of ridiculous,
1331
00:59:17,640 --> 00:59:19,310
but it makes me laugh.
1332
00:59:19,310 --> 00:59:21,270
I'd been thinking, last
night as I was going to bed,
1333
00:59:21,270 --> 00:59:23,810
I was thinking of, you know,
1334
00:59:23,810 --> 00:59:25,520
maybe things that I shouldn't say
1335
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:27,440
in front of an audience at BYU
1336
00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:30,150
where it's, like, kind
of BYU approved, sort of.
1337
00:59:30,150 --> 00:59:32,150
I'm trying to figure out where the line is
1338
00:59:32,150 --> 00:59:34,530
so that I can go up to that line, you know?
1339
00:59:34,530 --> 00:59:38,740
And not end up being not dishonest,
1340
00:59:38,740 --> 00:59:47,000
but I want to be as forthcoming
and as honest and clear...
1341
00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:49,300
I don't like that thing
where we go on panels
1342
00:59:49,300 --> 00:59:51,510
and we don't really
tell the kids what's up,
1343
00:59:51,510 --> 00:59:52,930
or the students, they're not kids.
1344
00:59:52,930 --> 00:59:55,010
But I also don't want to--
1345
00:59:55,010 --> 00:59:59,060
I don't want to ruin it if they're like,
1346
00:59:59,060 --> 01:00:01,680
"That one kid went way too far!
1347
01:00:01,680 --> 01:00:04,400
We're never doing this again!"
1348
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:06,020
I'm gonna have to talk to a few people
1349
01:00:06,020 --> 01:00:08,150
and figure out what that line is
1350
01:00:08,150 --> 01:00:11,740
so that I can be as honest as I can
1351
01:00:11,740 --> 01:00:14,950
without crossing any lines
and upsetting people.
1352
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:17,870
This is the first event on campus
1353
01:00:17,870 --> 01:00:20,490
sponsored by the BYU Student Association
1354
01:00:20,490 --> 01:00:23,080
where LGBT students and faculty members
1355
01:00:23,080 --> 01:00:25,420
can openly discuss what it's like
1356
01:00:25,420 --> 01:00:26,960
to be gay at BYU.
1357
01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:28,380
At Brigham Young University,
1358
01:00:28,380 --> 01:00:31,510
students actively seek
marriage and having a family,
1359
01:00:31,510 --> 01:00:34,380
but for students at the
LDS Church-owned university
1360
01:00:34,380 --> 01:00:38,760
who identify as LGBTQ,
the mold doesn't fit them.
1361
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:41,310
The problem is that
people are dying at BYU.
1362
01:00:41,310 --> 01:00:43,640
And when people say really homophobic
1363
01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:45,190
and transphobic things,
1364
01:00:45,190 --> 01:00:47,520
we should confront that if we're able.
1365
01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:49,690
Student Brynn Adams says the campus culture
1366
01:00:49,690 --> 01:00:52,610
is becoming more inclusive,
but not fast enough.
1367
01:00:52,610 --> 01:00:54,030
I'm transferring at the
end of this semester
1368
01:00:54,030 --> 01:00:57,570
because, at this point,
that conflict is too great.
1369
01:00:57,570 --> 01:01:01,330
There are lots of LGBTQ and
SSA students here on campus
1370
01:01:01,330 --> 01:01:02,870
and that it's not us versus them.
1371
01:01:02,870 --> 01:01:03,950
Like, we are here.
1372
01:01:03,950 --> 01:01:06,250
We are part of the "us."
1373
01:01:06,250 --> 01:01:08,170
A second forum will be held tonight
1374
01:01:08,170 --> 01:01:11,630
at the Varsity Theater
here on campus at 7PM.
1375
01:01:11,630 --> 01:01:13,710
(mixed chatter)
1376
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:19,300
Well, I'm about to go into the
second session of our panel
1377
01:01:19,300 --> 01:01:24,350
on LGBTQ--our LGBTQ and SSA panel at BYU.
1378
01:01:24,350 --> 01:01:27,520
The first one was at 11 in the JKB,
1379
01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:29,360
so just over there, and it was full.
1380
01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:32,230
Like the room, there are
people sitting in the front,
1381
01:01:32,230 --> 01:01:35,490
standing on the sides, and
the overflow was full, too.
1382
01:01:35,490 --> 01:01:37,530
It was great!
1383
01:01:37,530 --> 01:01:39,160
I was super nervous going up to it,
1384
01:01:39,160 --> 01:01:41,530
and so when I was there, I
was, like, walking all around
1385
01:01:41,530 --> 01:01:43,990
and just not even sure what
to do with myself and stuff,
1386
01:01:43,990 --> 01:01:47,710
but once we got started and
Kate made them all laugh.
1387
01:01:47,710 --> 01:01:49,080
And you know, and then I'm like,
1388
01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:50,670
these people are chill and cool,
1389
01:01:50,670 --> 01:01:52,840
and then I felt a little better.
1390
01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:55,670
Best case scenario,
hopefully conversations.
1391
01:01:55,670 --> 01:01:57,760
That's what I hope people are doing
1392
01:01:57,760 --> 01:01:59,890
is just talking like, "Hey,
did you go to the panel?
1393
01:01:59,890 --> 01:02:01,680
What did you think?
1394
01:02:01,680 --> 01:02:02,890
What did you think of this person
1395
01:02:02,890 --> 01:02:04,180
and their responses?
1396
01:02:04,180 --> 01:02:05,930
Isn't that interesting?"
1397
01:02:05,930 --> 01:02:08,190
And I want people to hear that,
1398
01:02:08,190 --> 01:02:10,060
that there is conversation happening
1399
01:02:10,060 --> 01:02:11,690
and that it's okay to talk about.
1400
01:02:11,690 --> 01:02:13,690
One guy in particular
who just came up to me
1401
01:02:13,690 --> 01:02:15,110
and said, "Thank you so much
1402
01:02:15,110 --> 01:02:18,650
for being willing to share that."
1403
01:02:18,650 --> 01:02:21,280
He identified himself as
a member of the community,
1404
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:23,700
and said, you know,
1405
01:02:23,700 --> 01:02:26,290
"I have never understood trans things,
1406
01:02:26,290 --> 01:02:27,370
and I never thought I would,
1407
01:02:27,370 --> 01:02:28,910
and I always kind of thought it wasn't a--
1408
01:02:28,910 --> 01:02:30,170
you know, wasn't really--"
1409
01:02:30,170 --> 01:02:31,170
I don't know, that's at least--
1410
01:02:31,170 --> 01:02:32,420
he didn't say exactly that,
1411
01:02:32,420 --> 01:02:34,670
but that was the feeling that I got,
1412
01:02:34,670 --> 01:02:36,380
and then he was emotional
1413
01:02:36,380 --> 01:02:37,510
and there were tears in his eyes,
1414
01:02:37,510 --> 01:02:40,090
and I was crying, too, you know.
1415
01:02:40,090 --> 01:02:41,470
It was cool to see that
1416
01:02:41,470 --> 01:02:43,470
even if everybody hated me after that,
1417
01:02:43,470 --> 01:02:45,140
if that one person felt touched,
1418
01:02:45,140 --> 01:02:48,230
you know, it is worth it somehow.
1419
01:02:48,230 --> 01:02:58,150
♪
1420
01:03:08,120 --> 01:03:10,250
(mixed chatter)
1421
01:03:10,250 --> 01:03:14,080
♪
1422
01:03:14,080 --> 01:03:17,500
I feel a little bit weird
1423
01:03:17,500 --> 01:03:21,300
and nervous about moving on in general.
1424
01:03:21,300 --> 01:03:24,720
So much of my identity has been built up
1425
01:03:24,720 --> 01:03:30,020
in being a gay Mormon at BYU.
1426
01:03:30,020 --> 01:03:32,980
That's really where all
of my social circles were.
1427
01:03:32,980 --> 01:03:37,400
That's where most of my advocacy came from.
1428
01:03:37,400 --> 01:03:39,110
It's, you know...
1429
01:03:39,110 --> 01:03:42,400
-There he is! -Being queer
1430
01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:45,410
was what made me me,
1431
01:03:45,410 --> 01:03:48,200
because it had to be.
1432
01:03:48,200 --> 01:03:51,370
I had to make it a big deal here.
1433
01:03:51,370 --> 01:03:52,500
And now I'm moving to a place
1434
01:03:52,500 --> 01:03:56,130
where it doesn't have to be a big deal.
1435
01:03:56,130 --> 01:04:00,760
And so that's gonna be weird for me.
1436
01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:02,720
James David Goates.
1437
01:04:02,720 --> 01:04:11,770
♪
1438
01:04:11,770 --> 01:04:15,310
I am worlds removed from who I was
1439
01:04:15,310 --> 01:04:16,440
when I first came to BYU,
1440
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:18,520
'cause I feel like a lot of the experiences
1441
01:04:18,520 --> 01:04:21,860
that shaped me at BYU
were, like, awful things
1442
01:04:21,860 --> 01:04:23,530
that I went through that had to teach me
1443
01:04:23,530 --> 01:04:28,160
that changing myself for
someone wasn't gonna work out.
1444
01:04:28,160 --> 01:04:33,830
And so to now be in a place where my family
1445
01:04:33,830 --> 01:04:36,330
isn't necessarily in
support of my relationship,
1446
01:04:36,330 --> 01:04:40,340
but they've met my girlfriend
and they haven't cut me off,
1447
01:04:40,340 --> 01:04:41,340
like I still talk to them.
1448
01:04:41,340 --> 01:04:43,220
I talk to my mom as much as I used to
1449
01:04:43,220 --> 01:04:44,760
and it's still normal conversation.
1450
01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:48,180
They know that I am in the process
1451
01:04:48,180 --> 01:04:50,140
of leaving the Church and joining another.
1452
01:04:50,140 --> 01:04:51,850
They are not excited about any of that,
1453
01:04:51,850 --> 01:04:53,100
but I couldn't ask that from them anyway.
1454
01:04:53,100 --> 01:04:56,480
They're humans and they--
1455
01:04:56,480 --> 01:04:57,900
I'm leaving something that they love
1456
01:04:57,900 --> 01:04:59,610
and that's really, really hard.
1457
01:04:59,610 --> 01:05:01,530
But that we're able to have a conversation
1458
01:05:01,530 --> 01:05:02,900
and not just yell at each other
1459
01:05:02,900 --> 01:05:04,110
from opposite sides of the table
1460
01:05:04,110 --> 01:05:06,610
and then walk away and never
want to see each other again.
1461
01:05:06,610 --> 01:05:09,030
We still have a relationship.
1462
01:05:09,030 --> 01:05:10,410
Through all these changes
that I've been through,
1463
01:05:10,410 --> 01:05:12,370
through being honest with myself
1464
01:05:12,370 --> 01:05:14,410
that I still have a
relationship with my family,
1465
01:05:14,410 --> 01:05:17,250
I can be gay and be a college grad
1466
01:05:17,250 --> 01:05:20,340
and be successful and have
a family that loves me.
1467
01:05:20,340 --> 01:05:22,460
That I have the support of my sisters,
1468
01:05:22,460 --> 01:05:26,010
the love of my parents
1469
01:05:26,010 --> 01:05:28,050
is crazy to me.
1470
01:05:28,050 --> 01:05:30,470
It's not something I ever
thought I could have.
1471
01:05:30,470 --> 01:05:40,270
♪
1472
01:05:41,320 --> 01:05:43,480
(indistinct conversation)
1473
01:05:44,360 --> 01:05:45,530
Yeah.
1474
01:05:50,700 --> 01:05:52,080
Why are you leaving BYU?
1475
01:05:52,080 --> 01:05:53,450
Why did you transfer?
1476
01:05:53,450 --> 01:05:55,330
Because I would have died if I stayed.
1477
01:05:55,330 --> 01:05:58,460
I would have spent every
bit of life force that I had
1478
01:05:58,460 --> 01:06:01,710
trying to change everything
and save everyone,
1479
01:06:01,710 --> 01:06:03,800
gay and other minorities,
1480
01:06:03,800 --> 01:06:08,380
and I would have completely
exhausted myself.
1481
01:06:08,380 --> 01:06:10,140
I would have ended up killing myself.
1482
01:06:10,140 --> 01:06:11,600
I just know that.
1483
01:06:11,600 --> 01:06:13,560
I didn't have the energy to fight them
1484
01:06:13,560 --> 01:06:16,140
every single moment of
every single day like that.
1485
01:06:16,140 --> 01:06:20,150
But really, in a year,
BYU changed me so much.
1486
01:06:20,150 --> 01:06:21,690
I am not the person I was.
1487
01:06:21,690 --> 01:06:23,020
And in some ways, I'm sure I'm better
1488
01:06:23,020 --> 01:06:25,110
and stronger and whatever, but like,
1489
01:06:25,110 --> 01:06:28,070
I'm also a lot more angry
and a lot more jaded
1490
01:06:28,070 --> 01:06:29,610
and a lot more bitter,
1491
01:06:29,610 --> 01:06:32,950
and that's not who I ever wanted to be.
1492
01:06:32,950 --> 01:06:34,910
And in order to keep myself alive,
1493
01:06:34,910 --> 01:06:36,580
I had to become those things.
1494
01:06:36,580 --> 01:06:39,210
And if I had stayed
another two or three years
1495
01:06:39,210 --> 01:06:42,710
or whatever it took to get my degree,
1496
01:06:42,710 --> 01:06:45,340
if I had stayed alive during that time,
1497
01:06:45,340 --> 01:06:50,010
I would've been a very dark, angry person
1498
01:06:50,010 --> 01:06:52,340
in order to have stayed alive,
1499
01:06:52,340 --> 01:06:53,970
and that's not fair.
1500
01:07:01,400 --> 01:07:05,900
I think transferring
would be very good for me.
1501
01:07:05,900 --> 01:07:10,860
I've looked into it, and
it's not going to work out.
1502
01:07:10,860 --> 01:07:14,200
Like I kind of like--
I like Provo, you know?
1503
01:07:14,200 --> 01:07:15,580
I really do.
1504
01:07:15,580 --> 01:07:16,990
It's a nice town,
1505
01:07:16,990 --> 01:07:18,700
it's got a mountain right next door
1506
01:07:18,700 --> 01:07:21,040
I can go running in, I like Center Street.
1507
01:07:21,040 --> 01:07:24,540
People can laugh at me, but I like it here.
1508
01:07:24,540 --> 01:07:27,840
Just take off that square
that's BYU and throw it out,
1509
01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:30,550
and Provo would be great, you know?
1510
01:07:30,550 --> 01:07:33,720
And that sounds pretty harsh.
1511
01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:36,720
BYU is my school, it's where
I'm getting my education.
1512
01:07:36,720 --> 01:07:39,390
I have a lot of people I love there,
1513
01:07:39,390 --> 01:07:44,230
but it's also-- I think I'm starting
1514
01:07:44,230 --> 01:07:46,570
to get to the point where being on campus,
1515
01:07:46,570 --> 01:07:50,610
just being on campus, even
when I'm not in classes,
1516
01:07:50,610 --> 01:07:55,070
I feel different, like I
don't like it there anymore.
1517
01:07:55,070 --> 01:07:58,240
It's becoming the memory of bad times,
1518
01:07:58,240 --> 01:08:00,790
and I think I'm starting to
have a negative association
1519
01:08:00,790 --> 01:08:03,120
with just campus in general.
1520
01:08:11,670 --> 01:08:13,550
I've sort of had this identity
1521
01:08:13,550 --> 01:08:17,350
of the gay Mormon who's been struggling
1522
01:08:17,350 --> 01:08:20,770
to sort of reconcile both
parts of my identity.
1523
01:08:20,770 --> 01:08:23,770
And I feel like I've
sort of reconciled them
1524
01:08:23,770 --> 01:08:25,940
as best I can at this point,
1525
01:08:25,940 --> 01:08:30,650
and I'm kind of looking
forward to just letting go
1526
01:08:30,650 --> 01:08:33,700
of both of those things and just being me,
1527
01:08:33,700 --> 01:08:36,910
and just sort of living
my life as a student,
1528
01:08:36,910 --> 01:08:39,410
as a Mormon, as a gay man,
1529
01:08:39,410 --> 01:08:42,040
and just not worrying about
1530
01:08:42,040 --> 01:08:43,460
the sort of conflicts between them
1531
01:08:43,460 --> 01:08:45,000
and just being.
1532
01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:47,250
I'm very much looking forward to that.
1533
01:09:01,260 --> 01:09:02,850
Thanks.
1534
01:09:02,850 --> 01:09:04,390
I'll talk to you--I mean,
1535
01:09:04,390 --> 01:09:06,310
who knows when I'll call you next week,
1536
01:09:06,310 --> 01:09:08,850
because I don't have classes anymore.
1537
01:09:08,850 --> 01:09:11,780
So it'll be a surprise.
1538
01:09:11,780 --> 01:09:14,030
Okay, I love you.
1539
01:09:14,030 --> 01:09:15,740
Yeah. Bye.
1540
01:09:21,450 --> 01:09:24,200
(sneezing)
1541
01:09:24,200 --> 01:09:25,620
Bless you!
1542
01:09:28,040 --> 01:09:34,760
I don't think the idea of
a church school is bad.
1543
01:09:34,760 --> 01:09:38,180
I think you could have one that could work.
1544
01:09:38,180 --> 01:09:40,260
I feel like I would describe something
1545
01:09:40,260 --> 01:09:42,560
that wouldn't be BYU,
1546
01:09:42,560 --> 01:09:44,930
but it would have to be--
1547
01:09:44,930 --> 01:09:48,350
and I'm saying this for
not just LGBT people,
1548
01:09:48,350 --> 01:09:50,730
Honor Code has to go really fast.
1549
01:09:50,730 --> 01:09:53,480
And then maybe like a trans health program
1550
01:09:53,480 --> 01:09:54,780
like the U has.
1551
01:09:54,780 --> 01:09:56,070
I still can't get over that.
1552
01:09:56,070 --> 01:09:58,360
They have a trans health program.
1553
01:09:58,360 --> 01:10:00,530
Like, wha--
1554
01:10:00,530 --> 01:10:01,870
They love their students!
1555
01:10:01,870 --> 01:10:05,040
That's the message I get.
1556
01:10:05,040 --> 01:10:06,370
I'm sure BYU does, too,
1557
01:10:06,370 --> 01:10:08,620
they just have a funny way of showing it.
1558
01:10:08,620 --> 01:10:11,500
And actually they don't
love all their students.
1559
01:10:11,500 --> 01:10:14,800
They really don't, otherwise
they wouldn't be doing this.
1560
01:10:14,800 --> 01:10:17,130
Everybody deserves to be at peace and free.
1561
01:10:17,130 --> 01:10:20,180
I don't know why BYU
has taken it upon itself
1562
01:10:20,180 --> 01:10:24,310
to be the one that can take
those away from people.
1563
01:10:24,310 --> 01:10:25,720
I just don't get it anymore.
1564
01:10:28,270 --> 01:10:32,520
For a long time, I thought that gay people
1565
01:10:32,520 --> 01:10:35,440
could go to BYU,
1566
01:10:35,440 --> 01:10:38,030
and that it just wasn't
gonna work out for me.
1567
01:10:38,030 --> 01:10:39,110
I think I'm at the point right now
1568
01:10:39,110 --> 01:10:40,280
that I don't think any queer person
1569
01:10:40,280 --> 01:10:41,490
should be at BYU.
1570
01:10:41,490 --> 01:10:44,160
Like, I think as soon as they possibly can,
1571
01:10:44,160 --> 01:10:46,620
they should get out, and I'm sorry that
1572
01:10:46,620 --> 01:10:49,160
it's not an option for everyone to get out.
1573
01:10:49,160 --> 01:10:54,040
Like I want to be happy, I want to be able
1574
01:10:54,040 --> 01:10:58,130
to be fulfilled in all the
ways that for so many years
1575
01:10:58,130 --> 01:11:00,050
I didn't think were going to be an option.
1576
01:11:00,050 --> 01:11:03,350
I thought I was-- my plan was to be
1577
01:11:03,350 --> 01:11:05,810
a really, really cool aunt and travel a lot
1578
01:11:05,810 --> 01:11:10,480
and just do my thing by myself
1579
01:11:10,480 --> 01:11:13,310
and be the example in all my wards
1580
01:11:13,310 --> 01:11:17,280
and be this faithful pillar,
1581
01:11:17,280 --> 01:11:19,860
and I don't want that.
1582
01:11:19,860 --> 01:11:23,110
I want to get married and have babies
1583
01:11:23,110 --> 01:11:25,120
and I want to do it all,
1584
01:11:25,120 --> 01:11:28,750
and now I'm gonna be able to on some level.
1585
01:11:28,750 --> 01:11:33,210
I want to never feel unsafe
1586
01:11:33,210 --> 01:11:36,340
like I did at BYU again.
1587
01:11:36,340 --> 01:11:38,510
(mixed chatter)
1588
01:11:52,850 --> 01:11:55,440
Hello, everyone!
1589
01:11:55,440 --> 01:11:59,360
Oh, come on, you knew that was coming!
1590
01:11:59,360 --> 01:12:01,400
I was recently informed--
1591
01:12:01,400 --> 01:12:04,700
because once I graduated, I
stopped going to the meetings.
1592
01:12:04,700 --> 01:12:08,740
More accurately, I was
disinvited from the meetings.
1593
01:12:08,740 --> 01:12:11,330
Which I was okay with,
because I'm graduated
1594
01:12:11,330 --> 01:12:13,290
and it's time to move on.
1595
01:12:13,290 --> 01:12:19,500
But what I'd heard was
that the admins had come in
1596
01:12:19,500 --> 01:12:23,340
and essentially said,
"It's not gonna happen.
1597
01:12:23,340 --> 01:12:26,600
An on-campus group is not gonna happen.
1598
01:12:26,600 --> 01:12:30,060
Not right now, not in
the foreseeable future,
1599
01:12:30,060 --> 01:12:32,020
but eventually, maybe."
1600
01:12:32,020 --> 01:12:33,440
It is a very special night.
1601
01:12:33,440 --> 01:12:34,690
It's one of my favorite nights.
1602
01:12:34,690 --> 01:12:36,860
It is the testimony meeting,
1603
01:12:36,860 --> 01:12:39,730
and you'll get to hear
from me in the very end,
1604
01:12:39,730 --> 01:12:42,320
but Liza is gonna explain
how this event is gonna go.
1605
01:12:45,240 --> 01:12:49,580
I think this on-campus--
1606
01:12:49,580 --> 01:12:52,500
I was gonna call it a failure,
but I won't call it that.
1607
01:12:52,500 --> 01:12:53,910
Setback.
1608
01:12:53,910 --> 01:12:55,460
We'll call it a setback,
1609
01:12:55,460 --> 01:12:57,960
because if it was a failure,
1610
01:12:57,960 --> 01:13:00,550
that would mean that it would do worse,
1611
01:13:00,550 --> 01:13:02,510
but there is definitely
progress that has been made
1612
01:13:02,510 --> 01:13:05,930
because of this on-campus thing.
1613
01:13:05,930 --> 01:13:08,970
That's, without a doubt
in my mind, that is true,
1614
01:13:08,970 --> 01:13:13,980
that we have made more progress
than we ever have before.
1615
01:13:13,980 --> 01:13:15,520
But it's very telling to me.
1616
01:13:15,520 --> 01:13:18,020
BYU doesn't want to take something
1617
01:13:18,020 --> 01:13:21,610
that LGBTQ people have
built for themselves,
1618
01:13:21,610 --> 01:13:23,740
and instead they want to make something
1619
01:13:23,740 --> 01:13:25,700
and be the savior.
1620
01:13:26,950 --> 01:13:28,700
The Board of Trustees said, "No.
1621
01:13:28,700 --> 01:13:31,370
We're not, you're not authorized
1622
01:13:31,370 --> 01:13:34,250
to create an organization,
a student organization
1623
01:13:34,250 --> 01:13:37,250
for LGBTQ students at BYU at this time."
1624
01:13:37,250 --> 01:13:40,710
I think Steve Sandberg
and other administrators
1625
01:13:40,710 --> 01:13:43,800
still have a lot of
hope that it will happen
1626
01:13:43,800 --> 01:13:46,840
sometime in the next
year or two or something,
1627
01:13:46,840 --> 01:13:49,300
but there's no timetable for it.
1628
01:13:49,300 --> 01:13:53,430
I don't--it's almost like
I don't care anymore.
1629
01:13:53,430 --> 01:13:55,310
I'm dead serious when I say
1630
01:13:55,310 --> 01:13:57,640
that nothing damaged my
testimony of the Church
1631
01:13:57,640 --> 01:14:00,230
more than working with
the administrators of BYU.
1632
01:14:00,230 --> 01:14:01,730
Nothing. Period.
1633
01:14:01,730 --> 01:14:06,320
I'm coming to you to ask for help.
1634
01:14:06,320 --> 01:14:08,860
You're in a position
of power and authority.
1635
01:14:08,860 --> 01:14:11,570
I am hurting, and I'm not
even hurting that bad,
1636
01:14:11,570 --> 01:14:13,830
but I am representing
people and I'm coming to you
1637
01:14:13,830 --> 01:14:16,540
on behalf of people who
are hurting real bad,
1638
01:14:16,540 --> 01:14:20,880
and you won't do anything.
1639
01:14:20,880 --> 01:14:22,460
Maybe it's really hard
for you to do something,
1640
01:14:22,460 --> 01:14:24,300
maybe you don't have a lot
of power to do anything,
1641
01:14:24,300 --> 01:14:29,720
but you could at least, like,
close up all your things
1642
01:14:29,720 --> 01:14:31,800
and just sit and be like, "Tell me more.
1643
01:14:31,800 --> 01:14:33,640
I care about this deeply.
1644
01:14:33,640 --> 01:14:35,520
You're a student at this
university that I work at,
1645
01:14:35,520 --> 01:14:38,690
I am in charge of students,
and I care about you."
1646
01:14:38,690 --> 01:14:39,810
That didn't happen.
1647
01:14:41,560 --> 01:14:43,940
The students were
definitely convinced, right?
1648
01:14:43,940 --> 01:14:45,730
And, I don't know, maybe this was their,
1649
01:14:45,730 --> 01:14:46,990
"Well, we're gonna make them
1650
01:14:46,990 --> 01:14:49,240
feel like they're going
to do something about it,
1651
01:14:49,240 --> 01:14:52,240
but really we don't--
we're not ready for that."
1652
01:14:52,240 --> 01:14:53,620
And I'm sure whoever is out there
1653
01:14:53,620 --> 01:14:55,950
making these decisions
probably doesn't hate
1654
01:14:55,950 --> 01:14:57,620
the LGBTQ community.
1655
01:14:57,620 --> 01:15:00,000
Hopefully doesn't hate
us, but I don't know.
1656
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:02,000
If they were here, if they were--
1657
01:15:02,000 --> 01:15:06,880
if they really knew LGBTQ BYU students,
1658
01:15:06,880 --> 01:15:08,970
you know, I think they would realize
1659
01:15:08,970 --> 01:15:12,800
that what they're doing is traumatic.
1660
01:15:12,800 --> 01:15:15,350
Or what BYU has been doing for a long time
1661
01:15:15,350 --> 01:15:18,980
has been inhumane, I would say.
1662
01:15:21,440 --> 01:15:24,560
I was lucky to know
about USGA from day one.
1663
01:15:24,560 --> 01:15:25,570
I wanted to fight for
people that didn't know
1664
01:15:25,570 --> 01:15:28,530
that there was a family there for them.
1665
01:15:28,530 --> 01:15:29,780
So if we could get on campus,
1666
01:15:29,780 --> 01:15:31,780
so if we could have any notice
1667
01:15:31,780 --> 01:15:33,700
that we existed on campus at all,
1668
01:15:33,700 --> 01:15:35,030
then they would know that we were there,
1669
01:15:35,030 --> 01:15:36,830
that they weren't alone,
that they had family.
1670
01:15:36,830 --> 01:15:38,660
They could come find a family with us.
1671
01:15:40,660 --> 01:15:44,250
BYU can be a good fit for LGBT students
1672
01:15:44,250 --> 01:15:46,290
if they know where to look.
1673
01:15:46,290 --> 01:15:50,340
If they don't, it's horribly
lonely and dangerous.
1674
01:15:50,340 --> 01:15:57,010
But if you know where to
find the sort of queer spaces
1675
01:15:57,010 --> 01:15:59,560
where you can get the sort
of connection necessary,
1676
01:15:59,560 --> 01:16:02,060
it can be a very good place
1677
01:16:02,060 --> 01:16:06,110
for coming to terms with
sexuality and faith.
1678
01:16:06,110 --> 01:16:08,530
I am not gonna say that BYU has been
1679
01:16:08,530 --> 01:16:10,860
only a negative experience,
1680
01:16:10,860 --> 01:16:13,150
it's just been a very negative experience
1681
01:16:13,150 --> 01:16:15,740
mixed with lots of
positive things, like USGA.
1682
01:16:15,740 --> 01:16:18,990
Very positive thing in my life,
I've made a lot of friends,
1683
01:16:18,990 --> 01:16:20,620
but the reality is that
1684
01:16:20,620 --> 01:16:22,620
I can make friends in other places.
1685
01:16:22,620 --> 01:16:25,460
Not to say that all of my
friends are replaceable,
1686
01:16:25,460 --> 01:16:28,090
but like, if I went anywhere else,
1687
01:16:28,090 --> 01:16:29,380
I would've come away, I think,
1688
01:16:29,380 --> 01:16:31,590
with better mental
health than I will from--
1689
01:16:31,590 --> 01:16:37,220
I think I'll need to sincerely recover.
1690
01:16:37,220 --> 01:16:40,390
After BYU, I'm gonna need
1691
01:16:40,390 --> 01:16:43,980
to take some time and recover,
1692
01:16:43,980 --> 01:16:45,900
'cause it's--I mean, it's like a sickness
1693
01:16:45,900 --> 01:16:47,810
that's eating away at me.
1694
01:16:50,570 --> 01:16:52,490
Now from our president.
1695
01:16:52,490 --> 01:16:55,200
(laughing)
1696
01:16:55,200 --> 01:16:57,870
I had to write down all my thoughts.
1697
01:16:57,870 --> 01:17:03,000
So my first time going to USGA was in 2011.
1698
01:17:03,000 --> 01:17:04,250
And what I found there
1699
01:17:04,250 --> 01:17:08,130
was people who loved me as I was.
1700
01:17:08,130 --> 01:17:11,340
Didn't want me to change at all.
1701
01:17:11,340 --> 01:17:13,380
And so when I decided
that it was right for me
1702
01:17:13,380 --> 01:17:16,720
to go on a mission, let me tell you,
1703
01:17:16,720 --> 01:17:18,220
My ward building has never seen
1704
01:17:18,220 --> 01:17:20,180
so many rainbows in its life.
1705
01:17:20,180 --> 01:17:21,680
(laughing)
1706
01:17:21,680 --> 01:17:28,610
I've never felt so loved
as I have here at USGA.
1707
01:17:28,610 --> 01:17:30,980
'Cause I found a home.
1708
01:17:30,980 --> 01:17:32,360
There is the mentality of
1709
01:17:32,360 --> 01:17:35,030
even if you don't want to
be with us, that's fine.
1710
01:17:35,030 --> 01:17:38,660
We will still be here for
you when you do need us.
1711
01:17:40,240 --> 01:17:42,910
And really, throughout everything,
1712
01:17:42,910 --> 01:17:45,080
there's just this love.
1713
01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:49,630
And that was the spirit of USGA.
1714
01:17:51,340 --> 01:17:55,380
Come as you are, leave as you desire.
1715
01:17:55,380 --> 01:18:00,640
Come in whatever framework you're in,
1716
01:18:00,640 --> 01:18:04,020
whatever spirituality you are,
1717
01:18:04,020 --> 01:18:07,810
and leave on whatever path you want,
1718
01:18:07,810 --> 01:18:09,650
and that's what I needed.
1719
01:18:09,650 --> 01:18:11,610
I think that's what a
lot of us have needed.
1720
01:18:11,610 --> 01:18:15,530
Now, I am done with BYU,
1721
01:18:15,530 --> 01:18:19,030
but I've seen a great change at BYU.
1722
01:18:19,030 --> 01:18:22,450
I've seen the fact that
I couldn't have a panel
1723
01:18:22,450 --> 01:18:25,540
in a classroom
1724
01:18:25,540 --> 01:18:29,750
to we just held a forum
1725
01:18:29,750 --> 01:18:31,630
for the entire university.
1726
01:18:32,960 --> 01:18:35,210
(applause)
1727
01:18:35,210 --> 01:18:37,590
That's a lot.
1728
01:18:37,590 --> 01:18:41,010
And while that wasn't
necessarily USGA's doing,
1729
01:18:41,010 --> 01:18:45,260
there's a big change at BYU.
1730
01:18:45,260 --> 01:18:49,810
However, we're not there yet.
1731
01:18:49,810 --> 01:18:56,690
We have come to just accept
acceptance as the end goal.
1732
01:18:56,690 --> 01:18:58,530
We've learned to take a breadcrumb
1733
01:18:58,530 --> 01:19:01,240
and make a feast out of it.
1734
01:19:01,240 --> 01:19:06,450
But the fact is is that we deserve more.
1735
01:19:06,450 --> 01:19:08,450
We deserve so much more.
1736
01:19:08,450 --> 01:19:09,870
(snapping)
1737
01:19:09,870 --> 01:19:12,040
I'm gonna quote a prophet here:
1738
01:19:12,040 --> 01:19:13,630
P!nk.
1739
01:19:13,630 --> 01:19:15,840
(laughing and cheering)
1740
01:19:20,220 --> 01:19:22,550
She talks about the fact
1741
01:19:22,550 --> 01:19:25,970
that to want your share is not a sin.
1742
01:19:28,390 --> 01:19:30,440
It is not a sin
1743
01:19:30,440 --> 01:19:33,600
to demand nurturance for yourself.
1744
01:19:33,600 --> 01:19:36,360
From yourself and from other people.
1745
01:19:36,360 --> 01:19:39,530
Because the fact is is
that here, we are a family.
1746
01:19:39,530 --> 01:19:42,110
Here, we are never alone.
1747
01:19:44,240 --> 01:19:47,490
My time as USGA president has been
1748
01:19:47,490 --> 01:19:52,540
the most fulfilling experience of my life.
1749
01:19:52,540 --> 01:19:54,460
I can walk forward.
1750
01:19:56,840 --> 01:20:00,840
I can look to a brighter future.
1751
01:20:00,840 --> 01:20:03,220
And I can be happy.
1752
01:20:03,220 --> 01:20:08,140
And so my plea with you
is to continue that.
1753
01:20:08,140 --> 01:20:10,310
Let that spirit live on.
1754
01:20:11,850 --> 01:20:14,310
And please,
1755
01:20:14,310 --> 01:20:18,190
please do not settle for breadcrumbs
1756
01:20:18,190 --> 01:20:21,190
when you deserve so much more.
1757
01:20:23,030 --> 01:20:24,780
Thank you.
1758
01:20:24,780 --> 01:20:26,700
And I say these things in
the name of Jesus Christ.
1759
01:20:26,700 --> 01:20:27,950
Amen.
1760
01:20:27,950 --> 01:20:30,120
(applause)
1761
01:20:33,870 --> 01:20:36,000
What I see is that
there's always going to be
1762
01:20:36,000 --> 01:20:38,130
gay people at BYU.
1763
01:20:38,130 --> 01:20:40,670
They're always gonna be there,
1764
01:20:40,670 --> 01:20:42,670
they're always gonna be coming out.
1765
01:20:42,670 --> 01:20:45,050
They're not leaving ever.
1766
01:20:45,050 --> 01:20:46,550
You can't just take all the gay people
1767
01:20:46,550 --> 01:20:48,010
out of some population,
1768
01:20:48,010 --> 01:20:51,890
even if it's a homophobic
church population, you know?
1769
01:20:51,890 --> 01:20:53,390
They're going to be there,
1770
01:20:53,390 --> 01:20:56,440
and so I think the need is not going away.
1771
01:20:56,440 --> 01:20:59,110
Even if all of USGA leaves,
1772
01:20:59,110 --> 01:21:00,480
well, there's people.
1773
01:21:00,480 --> 01:21:03,110
They'll start up something else
even if it takes them time.
1774
01:21:03,110 --> 01:21:05,070
And we're not leaving.
1775
01:21:05,070 --> 01:21:07,200
Even if sometimes we're smaller,
1776
01:21:07,200 --> 01:21:09,330
then I think the need is great enough
1777
01:21:09,330 --> 01:21:11,830
that it holds us together, you know?
1778
01:21:11,830 --> 01:21:13,910
I guess I'm inclined to trust those
1779
01:21:13,910 --> 01:21:16,830
that will come later.
1780
01:21:16,830 --> 01:21:19,880
I'm still kind of jaded
by the administration
1781
01:21:19,880 --> 01:21:21,550
and the people in charge.
1782
01:21:21,550 --> 01:21:23,630
Like, if it was up to BYU,
1783
01:21:23,630 --> 01:21:26,260
there wouldn't be a place for me at BYU.
1784
01:21:26,260 --> 01:21:29,720
But because some of the
students there cared enough,
1785
01:21:29,720 --> 01:21:33,520
they made themselves a place
against the administration.
1786
01:21:33,520 --> 01:21:37,350
They carved it out of
stone and moved boulders
1787
01:21:37,350 --> 01:21:38,980
to make this little place
1788
01:21:38,980 --> 01:21:41,650
that I was able to feel safe at BYU.
1789
01:21:41,650 --> 01:21:51,660
♪
1790
01:21:51,660 --> 01:21:53,830
I'm proud of all that I did do.
1791
01:21:55,250 --> 01:21:56,910
But I wish I could've done more.
1792
01:21:56,910 --> 01:22:05,010
♪
1793
01:22:05,010 --> 01:22:07,180
(indistinct chatter)
1794
01:22:07,180 --> 01:22:14,270
♪
1795
01:22:14,270 --> 01:22:16,350
The more we speak
1796
01:22:16,350 --> 01:22:19,980
and the more we share
our stories, our lives,
1797
01:22:19,980 --> 01:22:22,230
and are vulnerable like that,
1798
01:22:22,230 --> 01:22:23,900
I think that that is ultimately
1799
01:22:23,900 --> 01:22:27,610
what is going to bring about change.
1800
01:22:27,610 --> 01:22:29,530
One of the things I do every year
1801
01:22:29,530 --> 01:22:32,490
is that I teach Homer's Iliad,
1802
01:22:32,490 --> 01:22:36,290
which starts with Achilles
becoming infuriated
1803
01:22:36,290 --> 01:22:38,960
at his commanding officer, Agamemnon,
1804
01:22:38,960 --> 01:22:40,290
refusing to fight,
1805
01:22:40,290 --> 01:22:42,130
eventually losing one of the people
1806
01:22:42,130 --> 01:22:43,590
he cares about the most.
1807
01:22:43,590 --> 01:22:46,010
Going on a rampage, killing lots of people,
1808
01:22:46,010 --> 01:22:49,590
but what finally gets
Achilles to give up his rage,
1809
01:22:49,590 --> 01:22:52,640
it's not gifts, it's
not persuasion or logic,
1810
01:22:52,640 --> 01:22:55,100
it's not pressure.
1811
01:22:55,100 --> 01:22:57,140
What finally makes him give it up
1812
01:22:57,140 --> 01:22:59,770
is when the enemy king comes
1813
01:22:59,770 --> 01:23:03,190
and sits down in front of Achilles
1814
01:23:03,190 --> 01:23:05,980
and supplicates him for the body of his son
1815
01:23:05,980 --> 01:23:07,320
whom Achilles has killed,
1816
01:23:07,320 --> 01:23:09,610
and he says, "I have done
1817
01:23:09,610 --> 01:23:11,700
what no other man has done before.
1818
01:23:11,700 --> 01:23:13,070
I have kissed the hand
1819
01:23:13,070 --> 01:23:15,450
of the man who has killed my son."
1820
01:23:15,450 --> 01:23:17,410
They both cry.
1821
01:23:17,410 --> 01:23:21,620
And it's that moment
of empathic connection,
1822
01:23:21,620 --> 01:23:24,460
a vulnerability where finally Achilles
1823
01:23:24,460 --> 01:23:27,590
is able to put off that
rage and create an armistice
1824
01:23:27,590 --> 01:23:32,260
where the two sides can
mourn for their dead.
1825
01:23:32,260 --> 01:23:34,640
And I think that that's--
1826
01:23:34,640 --> 01:23:37,430
that lesson is extremely important
1827
01:23:37,430 --> 01:23:43,400
in how people end up changing.
1828
01:23:43,400 --> 01:23:45,060
Because it's not going to come
1829
01:23:45,060 --> 01:23:47,900
through well-reasoned, logical arguments,
1830
01:23:47,900 --> 01:23:49,360
because I've seen those,
1831
01:23:49,360 --> 01:23:50,860
I've seen them sent to the Church,
1832
01:23:50,860 --> 01:23:52,360
and that hasn't changed.
1833
01:23:52,360 --> 01:23:54,820
And I've seen the Church also
give reasonable arguments
1834
01:23:54,820 --> 01:23:57,790
to gay people, and they haven't changed.
1835
01:23:57,790 --> 01:24:02,290
I've seen shame on both sides.
1836
01:24:02,290 --> 01:24:04,790
I've seen guilt, trying
to guilt the other party
1837
01:24:04,790 --> 01:24:07,380
into doing what they want.
1838
01:24:07,380 --> 01:24:09,340
That hasn't worked.
1839
01:24:09,340 --> 01:24:12,260
The times that I've seen
real change come about,
1840
01:24:12,260 --> 01:24:14,550
it's because two people sat down
1841
01:24:14,550 --> 01:24:16,850
and told each other their stories
1842
01:24:16,850 --> 01:24:20,020
and developed a personal relationship.
1843
01:24:20,020 --> 01:24:22,310
And I think if there's
ever going to be any change
1844
01:24:22,310 --> 01:24:25,310
in our society, in our Mormon community,
1845
01:24:25,310 --> 01:24:28,110
in our Gospel, and at BYU,
1846
01:24:28,110 --> 01:24:31,150
it's going to be because
two people sat down
1847
01:24:31,150 --> 01:24:33,320
and shared their stories.
1848
01:24:33,320 --> 01:24:38,030
♪
1849
01:24:38,030 --> 01:24:40,870
(mixed chanting)
1850
01:24:40,870 --> 01:24:43,000
We're here, we're queer!
1851
01:24:43,000 --> 01:24:45,040
We belong at BYU!
1852
01:24:45,040 --> 01:24:46,880
Okay, let's keep it moving.
1853
01:24:46,880 --> 01:24:49,590
(shouting)
1854
01:24:49,590 --> 01:24:51,920
Jesus said gay rights!
1855
01:24:51,920 --> 01:24:53,760
I like your sign!
1856
01:24:53,760 --> 01:24:55,050
We're queer!
1857
01:24:55,050 --> 01:24:57,140
We belong at BYU!
1858
01:24:57,140 --> 01:24:59,470
(mixed chanting)
1859
01:25:02,310 --> 01:25:04,190
We're here, we're queer!
1860
01:25:04,190 --> 01:25:06,020
We belong at BYU!
1861
01:25:06,020 --> 01:25:08,940
We're here, we're queer!
1862
01:25:08,940 --> 01:25:11,190
(mixed chatter)
1863
01:25:15,200 --> 01:25:19,240
Love, not hate, makes BYU great.
1864
01:25:19,240 --> 01:25:23,540
Love, not hate, what makes BYU great.
1865
01:25:29,250 --> 01:25:31,300
We're here, we're queer!
1866
01:25:31,300 --> 01:25:33,090
We belong at BYU!
1867
01:25:33,090 --> 01:25:35,220
We're here, we're queer!
1868
01:25:35,220 --> 01:25:37,260
We belong at BYU!
1869
01:25:37,260 --> 01:25:39,220
We're here, we're queer!
1870
01:25:39,220 --> 01:25:40,970
We belong at BYU!
1871
01:25:40,970 --> 01:25:43,930
We're here, we're queer!
1872
01:25:43,930 --> 01:25:47,940
Love, not hate, makes BYU great!
1873
01:25:47,940 --> 01:25:52,110
Love, not hate, what makes BYU great!
1874
01:25:52,110 --> 01:25:54,900
(chanting continues)
1875
01:26:02,410 --> 01:26:11,750
♪ Don't wash your hands of me ♪
1876
01:26:13,000 --> 01:26:22,300
♪ 'Cause I'll be very clear ♪
1877
01:26:22,300 --> 01:26:25,060
♪
1878
01:26:25,060 --> 01:26:33,980
♪ Don't pretend you don't see me ♪
1879
01:26:35,440 --> 01:26:45,370
♪ 'Cause I'll be in your ear ♪
1880
01:26:46,410 --> 01:26:56,340
♪
142411
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