All language subtitles for Same-Sex.Attracted.2020.1080p.WEB-DL.AAC2.0.x264-ZTR

af Afrikaans
sq Albanian
am Amharic
ar Arabic
hy Armenian
az Azerbaijani
eu Basque
be Belarusian
bn Bengali
bs Bosnian
bg Bulgarian
ca Catalan
ceb Cebuano
ny Chichewa
zh-CN Chinese (Simplified)
zh-TW Chinese (Traditional)
co Corsican
hr Croatian
cs Czech
da Danish
nl Dutch
en English
eo Esperanto
et Estonian
tl Filipino
fi Finnish
fr French Download
fy Frisian
gl Galician
ka Georgian
de German Download
el Greek Download
gu Gujarati
ht Haitian Creole
ha Hausa
haw Hawaiian
iw Hebrew
hi Hindi
hmn Hmong
hu Hungarian
is Icelandic
ig Igbo
id Indonesian
ga Irish
it Italian Download
ja Japanese
jw Javanese
kn Kannada
kk Kazakh
km Khmer
ko Korean
ku Kurdish (Kurmanji)
ky Kyrgyz
lo Lao
la Latin
lv Latvian
lt Lithuanian
lb Luxembourgish
mk Macedonian
mg Malagasy
ms Malay
ml Malayalam
mt Maltese
mi Maori
mr Marathi
mn Mongolian
my Myanmar (Burmese)
ne Nepali
no Norwegian
ps Pashto
fa Persian
pl Polish
pt Portuguese Download
pa Punjabi
ro Romanian
ru Russian
sm Samoan
gd Scots Gaelic
sr Serbian
st Sesotho
sn Shona
sd Sindhi
si Sinhala
sk Slovak
sl Slovenian
so Somali
es Spanish Download
su Sundanese
sw Swahili
sv Swedish
tg Tajik
ta Tamil
te Telugu
th Thai
tr Turkish
uk Ukrainian
ur Urdu
uz Uzbek
vi Vietnamese
cy Welsh
xh Xhosa
yi Yiddish
yo Yoruba
zu Zulu
or Odia (Oriya)
rw Kinyarwanda
tk Turkmen
tt Tatar
ug Uyghur
Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:04,220 --> 00:00:07,130 (whooshing) 2 00:00:19,980 --> 00:00:27,320 ♪ 3 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:29,820 I had a class the other day where the professor talked 4 00:00:29,820 --> 00:00:33,540 about how homosexuality was a mental illness, 5 00:00:33,540 --> 00:00:36,330 how gay people are ridiculous 6 00:00:36,330 --> 00:00:38,370 and they just want the limelight 7 00:00:38,370 --> 00:00:41,500 and how we're destroying the family. 8 00:00:41,500 --> 00:00:43,380 ♪ 9 00:00:43,380 --> 00:00:46,170 I want to get married and have babies. 10 00:00:46,170 --> 00:00:49,220 I want to do it all, and I want to be happy, 11 00:00:49,220 --> 00:00:52,560 but it's really hard to leave something 12 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:55,350 that you've grown up in, and we've literally been told 13 00:00:55,350 --> 00:00:57,230 since we can remember that, like, 14 00:00:57,230 --> 00:01:00,350 this is what God wants. 15 00:01:00,350 --> 00:01:02,440 ♪ 16 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:06,360 In many ways, BYU has been a really great fit for me. 17 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:08,360 Academically, it's been wonderful. 18 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:11,490 Romantically, it has been awful. 19 00:01:11,490 --> 00:01:13,530 Just because they have what, to them, 20 00:01:13,530 --> 00:01:15,490 seem like justifiable reasons 21 00:01:15,490 --> 00:01:18,040 for how they treat queer people 22 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:21,960 doesn't mitigate the tremendous amount of pain 23 00:01:21,960 --> 00:01:23,460 that it has put me through. 24 00:01:23,460 --> 00:01:33,390 ♪ 25 00:02:03,540 --> 00:02:05,710 Mm, I'll put it on your side. 26 00:02:05,710 --> 00:02:07,760 I identify as gay or queer, 27 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:10,550 but I'm just the stereotypical lesbian. 28 00:02:10,550 --> 00:02:12,430 So I came out to myself when I was 16, 29 00:02:12,430 --> 00:02:15,600 and I had no idea that other gay Mormons existed, 30 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:18,890 like, or if they did, like, they definitely have left 31 00:02:18,890 --> 00:02:21,350 the church by now and everything. 32 00:02:21,350 --> 00:02:24,440 Coming to BYU meant I could get back 33 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:26,020 into the spiritual mind frame 34 00:02:26,020 --> 00:02:27,730 and I would be surrounded by it all the time, 35 00:02:27,730 --> 00:02:30,440 and I would be surrounded by good Mormon people 36 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:34,200 all the time, and I could get back 37 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:36,870 to where I wanted to be spiritually. 38 00:02:36,870 --> 00:02:39,620 At that point, I still was planning on 39 00:02:39,620 --> 00:02:41,620 at least trying to marry a dude. 40 00:02:41,620 --> 00:02:43,250 Either--I was either gonna be celibate 41 00:02:43,250 --> 00:02:45,080 or marry a dude. 42 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:49,090 And, like, even if I dated a million boys at BYU, 43 00:02:49,090 --> 00:02:50,840 like, if one of them worked, 44 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:53,340 if one of them was someone that I wanted to marry, 45 00:02:53,340 --> 00:02:56,220 then good, that would work. 46 00:02:56,220 --> 00:02:58,180 And I wanted to do the church thing, 47 00:02:58,180 --> 00:03:00,350 and I wanted to do the not being alone 48 00:03:00,350 --> 00:03:02,890 for the rest of my life thing. 49 00:03:02,890 --> 00:03:10,900 ♪ 50 00:03:12,650 --> 00:03:17,030 I am a comparative studies major here at BYU. 51 00:03:17,030 --> 00:03:21,750 And my thesis is actually on how Greek and Roman myths 52 00:03:21,750 --> 00:03:24,170 are reused in modern storytelling. 53 00:03:24,170 --> 00:03:29,170 And I identify as a gay man as well. 54 00:03:29,170 --> 00:03:32,380 LGBTQ issues at BYU, there's a lot to say. 55 00:03:32,380 --> 00:03:36,720 Uh, Mormons operate on a fundamental assumption 56 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:39,470 that homosexuality is wrong. 57 00:03:39,470 --> 00:03:40,760 Heterosexuality, 58 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:42,390 a man and a woman falling in love, 59 00:03:42,390 --> 00:03:45,850 is kind of the basis of what is right 60 00:03:45,850 --> 00:03:48,020 and deviations from that 61 00:03:48,020 --> 00:03:51,190 are broken, messed up, 62 00:03:51,190 --> 00:03:53,070 and something that needs to be fixed. 63 00:03:53,070 --> 00:03:56,530 So this statue is called "First Child." 64 00:03:56,530 --> 00:03:58,320 Family is really important to Mormons. 65 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:01,740 It's kind of like the center of our religion. 66 00:04:01,740 --> 00:04:05,210 Uh, I mean, there's God, there's Jesus, 67 00:04:05,210 --> 00:04:08,170 and then there's the heteronormative family 68 00:04:08,170 --> 00:04:10,290 with a man, and a woman, and a child. 69 00:04:10,290 --> 00:04:13,960 And there are lots of really beautiful things about that, 70 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:16,970 how, really, you need to build up your family 71 00:04:16,970 --> 00:04:20,850 and make it one of love, 72 00:04:20,850 --> 00:04:24,270 both for the parents and for the child. 73 00:04:24,270 --> 00:04:26,350 And there is... 74 00:04:26,350 --> 00:04:28,310 I don't know, there's a lot of that that I really want. 75 00:04:28,310 --> 00:04:30,230 It's part of my culture as a Mormon, 76 00:04:30,230 --> 00:04:33,110 a huge part of my faith, but it's also kind of sad 77 00:04:33,110 --> 00:04:35,820 that it's just marriage 78 00:04:35,820 --> 00:04:39,280 between a man and a woman. 79 00:04:39,280 --> 00:04:40,910 It's hard to feel like there's not 80 00:04:40,910 --> 00:04:42,410 really a place for you 81 00:04:42,410 --> 00:04:47,080 when you don't fit literally this image 82 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:50,040 and try to figure out just kind of where your place is 83 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:53,960 in the school and in this church, in general. 84 00:04:53,960 --> 00:05:02,890 ♪ 85 00:05:02,890 --> 00:05:05,930 Hello, everyone, and welcome to USGA! 86 00:05:05,930 --> 00:05:07,810 My name is J.D. Goates. 87 00:05:07,810 --> 00:05:08,980 Or at least that's how I start 88 00:05:08,980 --> 00:05:10,560 every single one of my meetings. 89 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:12,770 And let me tell you, if I don't sound 90 00:05:12,770 --> 00:05:16,820 like a gay vlogger, I'm not doing it right. 91 00:05:16,820 --> 00:05:19,410 So I grew up in Orem, Utah. 92 00:05:19,410 --> 00:05:21,820 Both of my parents work at Brigham Young University. 93 00:05:21,820 --> 00:05:23,490 They're chemistry professors. 94 00:05:23,490 --> 00:05:27,620 My mother is Catholic, and my father is LDS. 95 00:05:27,620 --> 00:05:29,330 So this is a very interesting thing for me. 96 00:05:29,330 --> 00:05:33,590 I actually went to four hours of church every Sunday. 97 00:05:33,590 --> 00:05:34,960 I know, you can all groan. 98 00:05:34,960 --> 00:05:37,210 It's okay, I did, too. 99 00:05:37,210 --> 00:05:39,050 So I'm bisexual. 100 00:05:39,050 --> 00:05:42,890 I identify as bisexual. 101 00:05:42,890 --> 00:05:47,640 I'm still a Mormon in a variety of ways, 102 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,480 but I'm not at the same time. 103 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,650 Uh, I think the most accurate description 104 00:05:53,650 --> 00:05:58,190 that someone has ever given me is a "cafeteria Mormon" 105 00:05:58,190 --> 00:06:00,280 because there are things that I really do believe, 106 00:06:00,280 --> 00:06:02,200 I really hold on to, 107 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:03,370 and there are other things 108 00:06:03,370 --> 00:06:07,580 that I cannot fathom. 109 00:06:07,580 --> 00:06:10,620 Um, my sexual orientation being one of them. 110 00:06:10,620 --> 00:06:13,380 Am I worried about being kicked out? 111 00:06:13,380 --> 00:06:17,090 The answer is every day of my life. 112 00:06:17,090 --> 00:06:19,300 I know a lot of people, unfortunately, 113 00:06:19,300 --> 00:06:21,380 that have been kicked out from their houses, 114 00:06:21,380 --> 00:06:22,890 their families won't talk to them. 115 00:06:22,890 --> 00:06:24,970 Their friends, once they come out, 116 00:06:24,970 --> 00:06:26,470 refuse to see them. 117 00:06:26,470 --> 00:06:29,520 Their apartment mates, unfortunately, at BYU, 118 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:31,100 because of the Honor Code, 119 00:06:31,100 --> 00:06:33,810 many queer students are harassed 120 00:06:33,810 --> 00:06:35,860 and kicked out of their apartments 121 00:06:35,860 --> 00:06:39,690 without any true justification. 122 00:06:39,690 --> 00:06:41,240 I've been trying to figure it out, too. 123 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:42,740 I'm like, what is it about me, like, 124 00:06:42,740 --> 00:06:46,870 how can you look at me and, like, use female pronouns? 125 00:06:46,870 --> 00:06:47,740 I try to look in the mirror, I'm like, 126 00:06:47,740 --> 00:06:49,500 "What gives it away?" 127 00:06:49,500 --> 00:06:51,620 To me--and to me, I look like a guy, too, 128 00:06:51,620 --> 00:06:53,870 because I don't look anything like I did before 129 00:06:53,870 --> 00:06:55,750 'cause I had such long hair 130 00:06:55,750 --> 00:06:58,380 and, like, once my voice drops, 131 00:06:58,380 --> 00:06:59,920 I will be a happy man. 132 00:06:59,920 --> 00:07:01,340 That'll be so great. 133 00:07:01,340 --> 00:07:05,680 I never heard the word "transgender" until... 134 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:08,060 First, I came out to myself as gay. 135 00:07:08,060 --> 00:07:09,600 That was, you know, after the mission. 136 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:11,100 So, I grew up LDS. 137 00:07:11,100 --> 00:07:12,480 Ever since I was a little kid, 138 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:13,940 I always wanted to go on a mission. 139 00:07:13,940 --> 00:07:15,230 Whenever I talked to missionaries, 140 00:07:15,230 --> 00:07:17,690 they always seemed very happy, very just at peace 141 00:07:17,690 --> 00:07:19,650 with who they were and what they were doing. 142 00:07:19,650 --> 00:07:22,530 I started having more problems after an interview 143 00:07:22,530 --> 00:07:26,070 with my mission president. 144 00:07:26,070 --> 00:07:27,870 He just kind of sat me down in a room. 145 00:07:27,870 --> 00:07:30,370 He was like, "You know, like, Sister Cano, 146 00:07:30,370 --> 00:07:32,620 like, you are not-- you're not very feminine." 147 00:07:32,620 --> 00:07:35,870 And I kind of was like, "Yeah, I know that." 148 00:07:35,870 --> 00:07:38,380 Like, you don't need to tell me that. 149 00:07:38,380 --> 00:07:43,380 He had basically told me that if I did not fix it, 150 00:07:43,380 --> 00:07:45,220 if I did not become more feminine 151 00:07:45,220 --> 00:07:47,510 and just kind of more appealing, 152 00:07:47,510 --> 00:07:49,680 like, I don't even know to say it that way, 153 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,770 that I wouldn't get married and, like, in the church, 154 00:07:52,770 --> 00:07:55,850 that's something like if you don't get married, 155 00:07:55,850 --> 00:07:58,270 that's gonna impact your salvation and your future 156 00:07:58,270 --> 00:07:59,900 and, like, that's what you're here to do. 157 00:07:59,900 --> 00:08:02,940 It was something that was very worrisome to me, 158 00:08:02,940 --> 00:08:07,160 and I started feeling kind of bad about how I was 159 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:08,870 or how I am. 160 00:08:08,870 --> 00:08:17,210 ♪ 161 00:08:17,210 --> 00:08:18,790 I like how we're just, like, all on our phones 162 00:08:18,790 --> 00:08:21,550 but, like, bonding over a game on our phones, 163 00:08:21,550 --> 00:08:23,300 and you're just sad in the corner without-- 164 00:08:23,300 --> 00:08:24,760 -I am not sad. -All right, 165 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:25,670 let's go cut your hair. 166 00:08:25,670 --> 00:08:27,050 Okay. 167 00:08:27,050 --> 00:08:28,680 But I want to connect with my friends, though. 168 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:31,310 -Oh my gosh. -My dad's told me before 169 00:08:31,310 --> 00:08:33,020 that Christ doesn't care if I'm happy, 170 00:08:33,020 --> 00:08:34,520 He cares if I have joy. 171 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,060 I believe the Scripture is 2 Nephi 2:25. 172 00:08:37,060 --> 00:08:38,900 "Adam fell that men might be; and men are, 173 00:08:38,900 --> 00:08:40,690 that they might have joy." 174 00:08:40,690 --> 00:08:43,980 The reference there is joy is like 175 00:08:43,980 --> 00:08:46,030 something like being in the presence of God. 176 00:08:46,030 --> 00:08:47,740 That is like living with Him again 177 00:08:47,740 --> 00:08:49,200 is what pure joy is, 178 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:51,700 and that's what the point of life is, 179 00:08:51,700 --> 00:08:54,370 is to be close with God again. 180 00:08:54,370 --> 00:08:56,160 So it doesn't matter if we're, like, 181 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:57,660 super happy in this life. 182 00:08:57,660 --> 00:09:00,250 The point is to get joy in the next life. 183 00:09:00,250 --> 00:09:03,050 But I'm not, like, I don't care 184 00:09:03,050 --> 00:09:05,760 about what heaven will be like. 185 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,720 I don't, like, I don't care. 186 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:10,890 All I really care about is doing good 187 00:09:10,890 --> 00:09:12,850 with the people around me right now. 188 00:09:12,850 --> 00:09:15,180 It's really important to me to have integrity 189 00:09:15,180 --> 00:09:19,230 and be who I am and not be false. 190 00:09:19,230 --> 00:09:20,650 And in order to take care of myself, 191 00:09:20,650 --> 00:09:22,980 I can't repress myself. 192 00:09:22,980 --> 00:09:24,270 Not anymore. 193 00:09:24,270 --> 00:09:26,240 I'm not gonna do it. 194 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:27,990 And, like, I'm not super hidden. 195 00:09:27,990 --> 00:09:30,950 People know that I'm gay and people know, 196 00:09:30,950 --> 00:09:32,410 but I can't hide my relationship 197 00:09:32,410 --> 00:09:34,740 from my family anymore, like, I don't want to. 198 00:09:34,740 --> 00:09:35,870 And after that, it's like, okay, 199 00:09:35,870 --> 00:09:37,620 I'm gonna want to be out, 200 00:09:37,620 --> 00:09:41,460 but then they're gonna know. 201 00:09:41,460 --> 00:09:43,130 They might stop loving me, and I know 202 00:09:43,130 --> 00:09:45,710 they're not gonna stop loving me, 203 00:09:45,710 --> 00:09:48,220 but, like, what if they do? 204 00:09:48,220 --> 00:09:50,550 My family might get cut off from me after graduation 205 00:09:50,550 --> 00:09:53,680 once I start being a hundred percent (indistinct). 206 00:09:53,680 --> 00:09:55,060 Want me to shave your head now? 207 00:09:55,060 --> 00:09:56,310 No. 208 00:09:56,310 --> 00:09:58,980 Who's next? Get in line. 209 00:09:58,980 --> 00:10:04,360 ♪ 210 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:07,530 The way that BYU's Honor Code is right now, 211 00:10:07,530 --> 00:10:10,360 I cannot go to lunch 212 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:13,370 with my straight best friend 213 00:10:13,370 --> 00:10:15,830 and not worry that someone is going to see me, 214 00:10:15,830 --> 00:10:17,290 think I'm on a date, 215 00:10:17,290 --> 00:10:19,870 and report me to the Honor Code Office. 216 00:10:19,870 --> 00:10:22,000 The history of the Honor Code actually goes hand in hand 217 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:24,460 with the history of homosexuality at BYU as well. 218 00:10:24,460 --> 00:10:26,590 So the Honor Code really developed 219 00:10:26,590 --> 00:10:30,970 under President Wilkinson back in the '60s. 220 00:10:30,970 --> 00:10:35,050 A great loosening of society's standards 221 00:10:35,050 --> 00:10:37,680 have resulted in a serious increase 222 00:10:37,680 --> 00:10:41,060 of homosexual practices in our society. 223 00:10:41,060 --> 00:10:43,690 In a student body of 10,000 members, 224 00:10:43,690 --> 00:10:46,570 we can probably expect to have a few 225 00:10:46,570 --> 00:10:49,360 of these perverted individuals. 226 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:52,320 The dean of students has been given instructions this year 227 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:56,450 that students who engage in any practice of this kind 228 00:10:56,450 --> 00:11:00,200 will not be tolerated on this campus. 229 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:03,620 This is the Wilkinson Student Center. 230 00:11:03,620 --> 00:11:07,090 He pretty much lived through the Red Scare 231 00:11:07,090 --> 00:11:10,960 and was deeply concerned about communism and socialism 232 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:12,970 and how it would destroy the world. 233 00:11:12,970 --> 00:11:17,510 He decided that he was going to keep hippies 234 00:11:17,510 --> 00:11:22,270 and communists and homosexuals out of his university 235 00:11:22,270 --> 00:11:26,770 and make it a place of obedience and... 236 00:11:28,690 --> 00:11:31,190 Yeah, pretty much just obedience, actually. 237 00:11:31,190 --> 00:11:34,950 The wording in the Honor Code is somewhat ambiguous. 238 00:11:34,950 --> 00:11:37,620 It's not just sexual relations, 239 00:11:37,620 --> 00:11:40,540 but any activity 240 00:11:40,540 --> 00:11:45,540 that gives expression to homosexual feelings. 241 00:11:45,540 --> 00:11:51,170 ♪ 242 00:11:51,170 --> 00:11:53,470 -Ready? -Action. 243 00:11:53,470 --> 00:11:55,260 "Brigham Young University will respond 244 00:11:55,260 --> 00:11:57,010 to homosexual behavior 245 00:11:57,010 --> 00:11:59,430 rather than to feelings or attraction, 246 00:11:59,430 --> 00:12:02,100 and welcomes as full members of the university community 247 00:12:02,100 --> 00:12:04,730 all whose behavior meets university standards. 248 00:12:04,730 --> 00:12:06,140 Members of the university community 249 00:12:06,140 --> 00:12:07,560 can remain in good Honor Code standing... 250 00:12:07,560 --> 00:12:09,610 ...if they conduct their lives in a manner consistent 251 00:12:09,610 --> 00:12:12,110 with Gospel principles and the Honor Code. 252 00:12:12,110 --> 00:12:13,940 One stated same-gender attraction 253 00:12:13,940 --> 00:12:15,450 is not an Honor Code issue. 254 00:12:15,450 --> 00:12:17,570 However, the Honor Code requires all members 255 00:12:17,570 --> 00:12:18,870 of the university community... 256 00:12:18,870 --> 00:12:20,280 ...to manifest a strict commitment 257 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:21,620 to a law of chastity. 258 00:12:21,620 --> 00:12:23,370 Homosexual behavior is inappropriate 259 00:12:23,370 --> 00:12:25,080 and violates the Honor Code. 260 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:28,000 Homosexual behavior includes not only sexual relations 261 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:29,580 between members of the same sex... 262 00:12:29,580 --> 00:12:31,250 ...but all forms of physical intimacy 263 00:12:31,250 --> 00:12:33,960 that give expression to homosexual feelings." 264 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:38,510 ♪ 265 00:12:38,510 --> 00:12:39,930 I've heard different stories 266 00:12:39,930 --> 00:12:43,140 about what that was supposed to mean, 267 00:12:43,140 --> 00:12:44,640 but as it stands now, 268 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:48,480 the people that actually enforce the Honor Code 269 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:51,400 interpret it to mean any physical contact 270 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:53,400 between gay people. 271 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:56,650 So, holding hands, kissing, cuddling. 272 00:12:56,650 --> 00:13:01,280 Even hand shakes, hugs, or staring too deeply 273 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:04,160 into the eyes of somebody else 274 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:07,000 could all be ways of signaling, 275 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:10,580 uh, you know, homosexual desire. 276 00:13:10,580 --> 00:13:13,920 None of that under the current Honor Code 277 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:16,260 as it is interpreted by the people that enforce it 278 00:13:16,260 --> 00:13:18,880 is permissible. 279 00:13:22,010 --> 00:13:24,430 (indistinct chatter) 280 00:13:26,810 --> 00:13:29,190 Don't touch it, don't touch it, stop. 281 00:13:29,190 --> 00:13:31,230 -Stop. -How do they make it, though? 282 00:13:31,230 --> 00:13:32,860 -I don't know. -Didn't you see the sign? 283 00:13:32,860 --> 00:13:34,980 It said they made it with ice-cold water. 284 00:13:34,980 --> 00:13:37,320 I really wasn't planning on dating another girl, 285 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:39,490 at least for a while, if at all. 286 00:13:39,490 --> 00:13:42,160 With Lex, we opened that communication up really well 287 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:44,450 from the beginning and we, like, went on dates 288 00:13:44,450 --> 00:13:46,580 and saw if it was actually what we wanted 289 00:13:46,580 --> 00:13:49,750 and everything and, like, which was really fun and cute. 290 00:13:49,750 --> 00:13:52,960 Now, intentionally entering the relationship, 291 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,250 like, there's been a little bit of-- 292 00:13:55,250 --> 00:13:56,710 there have been a few times I've been like, 293 00:13:56,710 --> 00:13:58,260 "Ah, what's going on? I don't know 294 00:13:58,260 --> 00:13:59,760 if this is what I'm supposed to be doing." 295 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:03,600 And I still am not a hundred percent, like, 296 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:06,600 I don't feel like I've gotten God's divine answer, 297 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:08,430 told me yes or not right now. 298 00:14:08,430 --> 00:14:10,850 Um, but I also definitely don't feel like 299 00:14:10,850 --> 00:14:12,270 it's been a no. 300 00:14:12,270 --> 00:14:15,270 Oh, Brynn, so proud. 301 00:14:15,270 --> 00:14:17,150 I'm not ready to leave the church yet. 302 00:14:17,150 --> 00:14:19,320 I have too much hurt wrapped up in it, 303 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:21,320 too many emotions wrapped up in it. 304 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:25,410 And leaving right now, for me, would be 305 00:14:25,410 --> 00:14:27,410 not dealing with things. 306 00:14:27,410 --> 00:14:31,370 I don't want to end up being the lesbian couple 307 00:14:31,370 --> 00:14:34,170 that rediscovers the church and gets divorced 308 00:14:34,170 --> 00:14:35,580 in order to come back. 309 00:14:35,580 --> 00:14:37,090 And if I don't deal with things beforehand, 310 00:14:37,090 --> 00:14:38,920 I don't know that that won't be me, 311 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:41,340 um, and I'm not willing to let that be me. 312 00:14:41,340 --> 00:14:42,630 That's not what I want. 313 00:14:42,630 --> 00:14:44,340 And if I choose not to get married 314 00:14:44,340 --> 00:14:46,560 and I choose to stay with the church, that's fine. 315 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:48,810 But if I get married, I'm staying married. 316 00:14:51,020 --> 00:14:53,310 Right now, I just need distance from BYU. 317 00:14:53,310 --> 00:14:56,190 I need to be able to be completely open 318 00:14:56,190 --> 00:14:59,230 about my relationship, including in a church setting. 319 00:14:59,230 --> 00:15:02,740 I need to feel like I can explore other churches 320 00:15:02,740 --> 00:15:05,910 if I want to, which right now, that's not an option at all. 321 00:15:05,910 --> 00:15:08,080 ♪ 322 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:11,660 When I'm physically with her, it feels right, it feels good, 323 00:15:11,660 --> 00:15:13,330 it feels like something that is making me 324 00:15:13,330 --> 00:15:16,790 a better person, it feels... 325 00:15:16,790 --> 00:15:19,170 ...like the best thing in my life. 326 00:15:19,170 --> 00:15:22,510 I feel like our ability to love 327 00:15:22,510 --> 00:15:23,760 is one of the most precious things 328 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:26,050 we've been given from God, 329 00:15:26,050 --> 00:15:28,680 and I don't understand why He would've given 330 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:29,760 the ability to love, 331 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,180 not just to lust or to whatever, 332 00:15:32,180 --> 00:15:34,940 but, like, to genuinely love someone else 333 00:15:34,940 --> 00:15:38,480 and say that that's wrong doesn't make sense to me. 334 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:42,320 And I've become a better person 335 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:46,410 by being in a relationship, by loving people, 336 00:15:46,410 --> 00:15:50,120 so why would that not be what God wants for me? 337 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:52,080 (indistinct chatter) 338 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:55,460 I don't know, like... 339 00:15:55,460 --> 00:15:57,500 I think I'm just so excited that I've, like, 340 00:15:57,500 --> 00:16:00,380 passed my limit of excitedness, 341 00:16:00,380 --> 00:16:03,090 and now I'm just... 342 00:16:03,090 --> 00:16:04,340 I don't know. 343 00:16:04,340 --> 00:16:06,340 What do you know about hormones? 344 00:16:06,340 --> 00:16:08,600 Um, about as much as the internet 345 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:09,680 can tell you, I think. 346 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:11,060 Well, that's where all that came from, 347 00:16:11,060 --> 00:16:13,810 so that's pretty much everything you need to know. 348 00:16:13,810 --> 00:16:16,390 How do--I always ask everybody that walks in here, 349 00:16:16,390 --> 00:16:17,730 "How do you identify?" 350 00:16:17,730 --> 00:16:19,650 Like, how do you identify yourself? 351 00:16:19,650 --> 00:16:21,980 -As a transgender male. -Okay, so fully 352 00:16:21,980 --> 00:16:24,320 on the other side of the spectrum 353 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:26,450 or the infinity of gender, right? 354 00:16:26,450 --> 00:16:27,610 Right, somewhere over there. 355 00:16:27,610 --> 00:16:29,200 It's just a big step, you know? 356 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:32,370 And, then, I'm scared of getting kicked out 357 00:16:32,370 --> 00:16:35,620 or having, you know, or having housing problems 358 00:16:35,620 --> 00:16:37,540 and all that jazz, but... 359 00:16:37,540 --> 00:16:39,000 Okay, that's about 0.4, 360 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:41,920 where you want to inject every week, okay? 361 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:44,630 -So do you see my half line? -Okay, yeah. 362 00:16:44,630 --> 00:16:46,590 Then you go right above that line. 363 00:16:46,590 --> 00:16:48,550 -Yeah. -Okay. 364 00:16:48,550 --> 00:16:51,680 You know, there's this page on the LDS.org, 365 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:53,560 something of missionaries with, like, examples 366 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:55,020 of what missionaries should look like. 367 00:16:55,020 --> 00:16:57,980 So, I was given as part of my study 368 00:16:57,980 --> 00:17:00,190 to go on that page and to look at them 369 00:17:00,190 --> 00:17:03,530 and see if I could copy how they were, 370 00:17:03,530 --> 00:17:05,490 so that was interesting. 371 00:17:05,490 --> 00:17:08,030 My mission president told me to pay attention 372 00:17:08,030 --> 00:17:10,860 to how they stood and how they-- like, their stance. 373 00:17:10,860 --> 00:17:12,910 He's like, "You know, when you stand, when you sit, 374 00:17:12,910 --> 00:17:15,700 when you gesture, when you talk, that's-- 375 00:17:15,700 --> 00:17:18,540 it's not--it's not okay," is what he said. 376 00:17:18,540 --> 00:17:21,210 It's like I got the idea that it was almost offensive, 377 00:17:21,210 --> 00:17:24,460 like, that's how--and, you know, I was just like... 378 00:17:24,460 --> 00:17:26,630 Like, I just felt so... 379 00:17:26,630 --> 00:17:28,930 -I can't. -Okay, but just remember, 380 00:17:28,930 --> 00:17:30,300 you have to do this by yourself, okay? 381 00:17:30,300 --> 00:17:33,720 So don't even think about it, and I just want you... 382 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:35,600 Okay. 383 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:37,770 Okay, so all I want you to do is just to take 384 00:17:37,770 --> 00:17:39,770 a deep breath in... 385 00:17:39,770 --> 00:17:41,520 And, so, he was like, "And this is the thing 386 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:42,940 you need to change, but don't worry. 387 00:17:42,940 --> 00:17:45,070 With plans and with goals and, you know, 388 00:17:45,070 --> 00:17:46,110 we can change this." 389 00:17:46,110 --> 00:17:47,400 And I was like... 390 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:48,860 I'm thinking in my head, thinking, "I don't know 391 00:17:48,860 --> 00:17:50,410 if I want to change this." 392 00:17:50,410 --> 00:17:52,160 Yeah, I'm also just happy. 393 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:54,990 Okay, that's a good feeling, though. 394 00:17:54,990 --> 00:18:00,870 ♪ 395 00:18:00,870 --> 00:18:03,920 (indistinct chatter) 396 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:05,340 So, USGA stands for 397 00:18:05,340 --> 00:18:07,800 Understanding Same-Gender Attraction. 398 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:09,470 It does not, however, stand for 399 00:18:09,470 --> 00:18:12,720 the United States Golf Association. 400 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:13,850 So, a little bit about us. 401 00:18:13,850 --> 00:18:15,310 Like I said, we are an unofficial group 402 00:18:15,310 --> 00:18:17,890 which means we are not an official club. 403 00:18:17,890 --> 00:18:19,560 We do not get money from the university. 404 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:22,900 We do not get support from the university at all. 405 00:18:22,900 --> 00:18:25,940 USGA is also the reason why I stay at BYU. 406 00:18:25,940 --> 00:18:28,820 It's been my support system. 407 00:18:28,820 --> 00:18:32,030 It's been my family, been my friends. 408 00:18:33,950 --> 00:18:39,120 It's been the thing that gets me through the week, 409 00:18:39,120 --> 00:18:42,500 thinking that I have this place to go. 410 00:18:42,500 --> 00:18:45,420 (indistinct chatter) 411 00:18:47,750 --> 00:18:50,380 Hello, everyone, and welcome to USGA! 412 00:18:50,380 --> 00:18:51,720 My name is J.D. Goates. 413 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,180 I'm the president of USGA. 414 00:18:54,180 --> 00:18:57,850 Here we have Gabe Cano, Liza Holdaway, 415 00:18:57,850 --> 00:18:59,220 and Sabina Mendoza, 416 00:18:59,220 --> 00:19:00,930 all of the wonderful presidency members 417 00:19:00,930 --> 00:19:02,560 here to help you. 418 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:04,020 We're so glad that you could join us 419 00:19:04,020 --> 00:19:07,230 for our opening semester barbecue social. 420 00:19:07,230 --> 00:19:12,240 So, USGA is an organization of BYU students. 421 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:15,660 It is an unofficial group, meaning it is not affiliated 422 00:19:15,660 --> 00:19:17,160 with the university whatsoever, 423 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:20,450 but it is a group specifically devoted 424 00:19:20,450 --> 00:19:24,540 to serving and improving and saving the lives 425 00:19:24,540 --> 00:19:27,460 of LGBTQ and SSA, 426 00:19:27,460 --> 00:19:30,340 same-sex attracted students, at BYU. 427 00:19:30,340 --> 00:19:34,050 We began in 2010. 428 00:19:34,050 --> 00:19:35,340 It started out very small, 429 00:19:35,340 --> 00:19:39,850 meaning maybe 8 to 12 people tops, 430 00:19:39,850 --> 00:19:42,770 and it eventually started growing. 431 00:19:42,770 --> 00:19:45,100 (indistinct chatter) 432 00:19:45,100 --> 00:19:48,110 To me, right now, USGA is functioning as a band-aid 433 00:19:48,110 --> 00:19:52,530 for a huge problem at BYU, within the church in general. 434 00:19:52,530 --> 00:19:56,320 LGBTQ people are born into Mormon households. 435 00:19:56,320 --> 00:20:00,410 Most people inside Mormonism are not well-educated 436 00:20:00,410 --> 00:20:01,830 on LGBT issues, they don't know 437 00:20:01,830 --> 00:20:03,540 how to treat LGBT people. 438 00:20:03,540 --> 00:20:05,370 It's just inherently there's tension 439 00:20:05,370 --> 00:20:08,460 and friction there, and that causes a lot of problems. 440 00:20:08,460 --> 00:20:12,340 So, inevitably, queer kids end up at BYU, 441 00:20:12,340 --> 00:20:15,340 and all of the issues of being just a normal college student 442 00:20:15,340 --> 00:20:17,930 are then compounded with being queer 443 00:20:17,930 --> 00:20:20,810 in a religious organization at a religious university, 444 00:20:20,810 --> 00:20:24,230 and that causes a lot of negative side effects, 445 00:20:24,230 --> 00:20:26,230 mental health issues, all sorts of things. 446 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:31,730 Back at BYU, I feel alone, 447 00:20:31,730 --> 00:20:35,400 I feel unwanted, 448 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:39,620 I feel like everything I do is going to be watched 449 00:20:39,620 --> 00:20:41,120 and evaluated on a different level 450 00:20:41,120 --> 00:20:42,290 than it would be for anyone else 451 00:20:42,290 --> 00:20:44,330 because I'm the gay kid. 452 00:20:44,330 --> 00:20:47,790 USGA feels safe and warm and loving, 453 00:20:47,790 --> 00:20:49,670 and they want me there, 454 00:20:49,670 --> 00:20:52,630 and it's not conditional. 455 00:20:52,630 --> 00:20:54,920 And, so, to get to BYU and have these people 456 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,470 who understood my religious experiences, 457 00:20:57,470 --> 00:21:01,260 understood my sexuality experiences, 458 00:21:01,260 --> 00:21:05,350 they get it, and that's really neat to see, 459 00:21:05,350 --> 00:21:08,770 that I can exist through this, and I have a future 460 00:21:08,770 --> 00:21:11,560 because they've been able to make it. 461 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:16,780 I probably wouldn't be alive, literally, 462 00:21:16,780 --> 00:21:20,370 if I didn't have USGA and I tried to stay at BYU. 463 00:21:21,950 --> 00:21:23,950 My goal when I became USGA president 464 00:21:23,950 --> 00:21:26,540 was to get USGA back on campus 465 00:21:26,540 --> 00:21:29,580 because USGA started on campus. 466 00:21:29,580 --> 00:21:32,170 So, USGA got kicked off campus in the end of 2012, 467 00:21:32,170 --> 00:21:33,750 beginning of 2013. 468 00:21:33,750 --> 00:21:35,420 That was this whole big mess 469 00:21:35,420 --> 00:21:39,300 involving the church headquarters in Salt Lake. 470 00:21:39,300 --> 00:21:40,970 So, one of the frustrating things 471 00:21:40,970 --> 00:21:43,350 when I became USGA president is I have learned 472 00:21:43,350 --> 00:21:44,970 all of this information firsthand 473 00:21:44,970 --> 00:21:47,390 from the presidency, who had been in the presidency 474 00:21:47,390 --> 00:21:49,940 when USGA was kicked off campus, 475 00:21:49,940 --> 00:21:51,850 from Senator Dabakis himself, 476 00:21:51,850 --> 00:21:54,150 from anybody who I knew who had first-person knowledge 477 00:21:54,150 --> 00:21:55,480 of some of those events. 478 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:57,990 And I would bring that information 479 00:21:57,990 --> 00:21:59,610 and knowledge with me into my meetings, 480 00:21:59,610 --> 00:22:02,030 and I would say, well, you know, blah, blah, blah, 481 00:22:02,030 --> 00:22:03,830 "USGA was kicked off campus," 482 00:22:03,830 --> 00:22:06,200 and, inevitably, every single administrator, 483 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:08,410 if I talked to them about it, they would push back 484 00:22:08,410 --> 00:22:09,710 or they would deflect, or they would say, 485 00:22:09,710 --> 00:22:12,330 "Well, that's not how I understood it happening," 486 00:22:12,330 --> 00:22:13,380 or whatever. 487 00:22:13,380 --> 00:22:15,500 And, so, when the Working Group started, 488 00:22:15,500 --> 00:22:17,300 in my mind, it was like, "Okay, we need 489 00:22:17,300 --> 00:22:21,590 to figure out a way to get USGA back on campus." 490 00:22:21,590 --> 00:22:25,050 So, I submitted the application for a club. 491 00:22:25,050 --> 00:22:29,060 My idea was that it would be geared 492 00:22:29,060 --> 00:22:32,560 towards changing the overall culture on campus. 493 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:34,400 So it wouldn't necessarily be a group 494 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:36,570 for gay people to come together, 495 00:22:36,570 --> 00:22:39,690 although, inevitably, it would have many gay people in it, 496 00:22:39,690 --> 00:22:41,400 LGBT people, in general. 497 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:44,870 So I submitted that, and I was called in 498 00:22:44,870 --> 00:22:48,660 by the dean of students, student life, 499 00:22:48,660 --> 00:22:52,120 and I found out that there's actually-- 500 00:22:52,120 --> 00:22:53,670 then, it was called a "task force," 501 00:22:53,670 --> 00:22:55,790 now, I believe it's called the "work group" 502 00:22:55,790 --> 00:22:58,130 of people that had come together 503 00:22:58,130 --> 00:23:01,590 and were discussing how they can actually improve life 504 00:23:01,590 --> 00:23:03,510 for LGBT students at BYU. 505 00:23:03,510 --> 00:23:12,520 ♪ 506 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:14,230 So they met for a long time, 507 00:23:14,230 --> 00:23:17,360 they met with a bunch of different students, 508 00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:20,110 including the USGA presidency, 509 00:23:20,110 --> 00:23:23,610 and then various other students throughout campus. 510 00:23:23,610 --> 00:23:26,530 What they've done now to this point 511 00:23:26,530 --> 00:23:29,740 is that they took my proposal and changed it. 512 00:23:29,740 --> 00:23:31,830 Again, there are a whole bunch of administrators 513 00:23:31,830 --> 00:23:33,620 who are all straight. 514 00:23:33,620 --> 00:23:35,500 I think that they're, for the most part, 515 00:23:35,500 --> 00:23:39,000 well-intentioned, but they have 516 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,760 a limited understanding of the issue. 517 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,720 Allies were how I survived. 518 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:49,100 So, here are my tips and tricks to being a good ally. 519 00:23:49,100 --> 00:23:53,230 As an ally, your job is to essentially be a microphone. 520 00:23:53,230 --> 00:23:56,900 You are to amplify the voices of LGBTQ people, 521 00:23:56,900 --> 00:23:59,020 not wash them out. 522 00:23:59,020 --> 00:24:01,150 As an ally, you should work and speak 523 00:24:01,150 --> 00:24:05,410 with LGBTQ individuals instead of for them. 524 00:24:05,410 --> 00:24:08,070 "With" means you see LGBTQ individuals 525 00:24:08,070 --> 00:24:12,330 as resourceful, as equals, 526 00:24:12,330 --> 00:24:16,500 as people who deserve to have a voice. 527 00:24:16,500 --> 00:24:18,920 I've talked with J.D. about his concerns 528 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:20,800 and about this group, and I think 529 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,550 that they're very valid concerns, honestly. 530 00:24:23,550 --> 00:24:27,340 He's afraid that if they create this group, 531 00:24:27,340 --> 00:24:30,720 USGA is destroyed because people will go 532 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:32,680 to that official venue instead, 533 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:34,810 and then they control that venue. 534 00:24:34,810 --> 00:24:37,940 They could at any point just try to get rid of it. 535 00:24:37,940 --> 00:24:39,610 Whatever reasons they may give, 536 00:24:39,610 --> 00:24:42,780 they could destroy that, and USGA then would be gone 537 00:24:42,780 --> 00:24:45,360 and it would be very difficult to start it back up again 538 00:24:45,360 --> 00:24:47,820 after it has lost momentum. 539 00:24:47,820 --> 00:24:49,990 One of the critical issues 540 00:24:49,990 --> 00:24:52,030 that the Working Group was grappling with 541 00:24:52,030 --> 00:24:55,370 was the very real divide there is 542 00:24:55,370 --> 00:24:57,710 in the LGBT community at BYU. 543 00:24:57,710 --> 00:24:59,130 There are people who have been involved 544 00:24:59,130 --> 00:25:01,290 and invested in USGA, 545 00:25:01,290 --> 00:25:03,500 have been in leadership positions in USGA 546 00:25:03,500 --> 00:25:05,720 and have been working on that for years and years and years. 547 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:07,220 And, then, there are 548 00:25:07,220 --> 00:25:09,340 typically more conservative LGBTQ students. 549 00:25:09,340 --> 00:25:11,430 Often, they don't use-- they don't take 550 00:25:11,430 --> 00:25:13,560 an identity like LGBT. 551 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:15,520 They'll say "same-sex attracted." 552 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,140 They're usually earlier on in their coming out process. 553 00:25:18,140 --> 00:25:20,560 A lot of them are very convinced 554 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:22,480 that they will stay in the church long-term, 555 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,570 and a good number of them are pursuing 556 00:25:25,570 --> 00:25:27,900 mixed-orientation relationships and marriages. 557 00:25:27,900 --> 00:25:30,410 And those two camps, their narratives 558 00:25:30,410 --> 00:25:32,030 are inherently threatening to each other. 559 00:25:32,030 --> 00:25:33,790 And so they haven't really gotten along, 560 00:25:33,790 --> 00:25:35,620 we haven't really gotten along very well. 561 00:25:35,620 --> 00:25:36,910 And, so, the Working Group 562 00:25:36,910 --> 00:25:38,750 was really cognizant of that issue 563 00:25:38,750 --> 00:25:40,790 and was trying to figure out a way 564 00:25:40,790 --> 00:25:42,420 that if we're gonna do something at BYU 565 00:25:42,420 --> 00:25:44,710 that's officially BYU sponsored and sanctioned, 566 00:25:44,710 --> 00:25:47,380 it has to be for all queer BYU students. 567 00:25:47,380 --> 00:25:51,180 Now, BYU wants to form 568 00:25:51,180 --> 00:25:55,470 its own LGTBQ group 569 00:25:55,470 --> 00:25:58,430 and not take in USGA. 570 00:25:58,430 --> 00:26:03,560 And the common reason is because by taking in USGA, 571 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,110 it would act as a barrier of inclusion 572 00:26:06,110 --> 00:26:10,070 to people who don't go to USGA. 573 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:17,450 Meaning, so there are "dozens and dozens" 574 00:26:17,450 --> 00:26:22,000 of people that have talked to the administration 575 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,920 about how they would feel like BYU was abandoning them 576 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,510 if they brought in USGA. 577 00:26:28,510 --> 00:26:30,340 "Dozens and dozens." 578 00:26:32,180 --> 00:26:35,640 I believe that there are a lot of people that think that, 579 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:39,350 but their belief is that this mentality 580 00:26:39,350 --> 00:26:44,110 is the majority of the LGBTQ campus population, 581 00:26:44,110 --> 00:26:46,570 and I don't buy that at all. 582 00:26:46,570 --> 00:26:49,190 We're not trying to convince anyone to leave the church. 583 00:26:49,190 --> 00:26:51,450 Everyone is still allowed to make their own choices, 584 00:26:51,450 --> 00:26:54,280 and we don't really advocate for any choices. 585 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,490 USGA as a group is like pro-BYU and pro-LDS Church, 586 00:26:57,490 --> 00:26:58,790 but other than that, we don't really have 587 00:26:58,790 --> 00:27:00,870 political or ideological stances 588 00:27:00,870 --> 00:27:02,250 or things that we advocate for. 589 00:27:02,250 --> 00:27:06,090 And that neutrality is something 590 00:27:06,090 --> 00:27:10,010 that BYU is obviously-- has a hard time with. 591 00:27:10,010 --> 00:27:12,720 BYU is not a neutral institution. 592 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:17,140 I mean, really, BYU exists because the church wants 593 00:27:17,140 --> 00:27:18,760 well-educated individuals 594 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:20,560 who are committed to their faith 595 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:21,850 to go out into the world, 596 00:27:21,850 --> 00:27:24,480 to be emissaries for the LDS church 597 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,320 and to be successful and, then, hopefully, 598 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:28,980 you know, be able to contribute back to the church, 599 00:27:28,980 --> 00:27:30,900 to their communities, to the country. 600 00:27:30,900 --> 00:27:35,490 And neutrality doesn't fit into that mission very well. 601 00:27:35,490 --> 00:27:39,490 But this would be, again, potentially game changing 602 00:27:39,490 --> 00:27:42,460 because USGA, as long as it is on the fringe, 603 00:27:42,460 --> 00:27:45,830 will be doing good for LGBT people. 604 00:27:45,830 --> 00:27:49,960 It will help them be stronger and happier 605 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:52,550 and get them through BYU or out of BYU, 606 00:27:52,550 --> 00:27:54,720 whatever they feel like they need to do. 607 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:59,180 But it's not going to have the long-term power 608 00:27:59,180 --> 00:28:02,640 of institutional change, and I think that this group 609 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:06,480 could be a fairly significant step towards that. 610 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:08,400 So, I personally think 611 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,400 it's worth the risk of creating. 612 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:18,070 ♪ 613 00:28:18,070 --> 00:28:20,580 (laughing) 614 00:28:20,580 --> 00:28:25,040 ♪ 615 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,460 At this point, there is no longer a question 616 00:28:27,460 --> 00:28:30,630 of whether a group is being formed on campus 617 00:28:30,630 --> 00:28:32,250 by the BYU administration. 618 00:28:32,250 --> 00:28:35,470 So this is not the question that is up for debate. 619 00:28:35,470 --> 00:28:37,010 It is yes happening. 620 00:28:37,010 --> 00:28:39,680 Definitely yes happening, for sure, we did it. 621 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:41,180 If there is a group being formed, 622 00:28:41,180 --> 00:28:44,730 the question is, what role does USGA play in it? 623 00:28:44,730 --> 00:28:47,400 And the question is, should we be a part of this, 624 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:51,440 or should we try and exist opposingly? 625 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,360 One thing that I had said to the Working Group 626 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:57,490 is that anything that does not include the merging of USGA 627 00:28:57,490 --> 00:28:59,780 in some form, we will not support. 628 00:28:59,780 --> 00:29:01,530 I'll be honest, I got a little frustrated 629 00:29:01,530 --> 00:29:03,160 because it didn't feel like they were. 630 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,710 They kept asking, "Well, what does USGA want?" 631 00:29:05,710 --> 00:29:07,670 And I kept--and I'd always been telling them. 632 00:29:07,670 --> 00:29:08,670 It's interesting because it could be 633 00:29:08,670 --> 00:29:10,210 super, super great. 634 00:29:10,210 --> 00:29:12,500 Um, you know, to have this on-campus thing, 635 00:29:12,500 --> 00:29:14,880 it could be, you know, publicly advertised on campus. 636 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:16,760 I'd really love for, you know, USGA to be 637 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,090 as much a part of it as we can and to be able to say like, 638 00:29:19,090 --> 00:29:21,220 "Hey, we are, you know, coming on to campus 639 00:29:21,220 --> 00:29:23,180 to create this new group," 640 00:29:23,180 --> 00:29:25,020 and to be able to actually, like, merge it. 641 00:29:25,020 --> 00:29:27,980 I really strongly do feel that it is worth it 642 00:29:27,980 --> 00:29:29,980 to make a group on campus. 643 00:29:29,980 --> 00:29:31,730 We'll have a much wider audience 644 00:29:31,730 --> 00:29:34,320 if we're able to be on campus, to advertise on campus 645 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:37,450 to be at Clubs Night, to be able to put up posters 646 00:29:37,450 --> 00:29:39,360 and stuff on bulletin boards around campus, 647 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,530 to be able to talk to those incoming freshmen 648 00:29:41,530 --> 00:29:43,160 and say, "Hey, this is a group, 649 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,290 you know, if you're LGBTQ, you belong here." 650 00:29:45,290 --> 00:29:46,910 And so, like, this is a big deal. 651 00:29:46,910 --> 00:29:49,210 So, an on-campus group is definitely happening. 652 00:29:49,210 --> 00:29:50,670 There's a lot of difficulties. 653 00:29:50,670 --> 00:29:53,500 If USGA, you know, tried to remain separate, 654 00:29:53,500 --> 00:29:55,000 one of the two would die. 655 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:56,760 It'd be really sad if USGA died. 656 00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:58,840 It'd also be really sad if the on-campus thing died 657 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,680 because then, in the future, BYU administration could say, 658 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:03,510 "Oh, well, we tried and no one cared." 659 00:30:03,510 --> 00:30:05,140 I just keep coming back to this question: 660 00:30:05,140 --> 00:30:08,350 what is it about USGA that it cannot exist on campus? 661 00:30:08,350 --> 00:30:10,020 I can give you the roundabout answer 662 00:30:10,020 --> 00:30:10,980 that they've given me 663 00:30:10,980 --> 00:30:12,520 that hasn't really said anything, 664 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:16,860 but my interpretation of the answer is discrimination. 665 00:30:16,860 --> 00:30:17,860 What they're saying is, 666 00:30:17,860 --> 00:30:19,360 "You're not good enough as you are, 667 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:21,280 so we're gonna make something for you, 668 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,780 and if you don't want it, then screw you." 669 00:30:23,780 --> 00:30:28,750 Especially because we've been applying to be on campus. 670 00:30:28,750 --> 00:30:31,540 And it's hurtful, it's a slap in the face. 671 00:30:31,540 --> 00:30:35,170 Um, I also see an issue of polarization. 672 00:30:35,170 --> 00:30:38,420 I see an issue of this on-campus group 673 00:30:38,420 --> 00:30:41,840 would become the "church gays," if you will, 674 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,180 and an off-campus group would become 675 00:30:44,180 --> 00:30:47,560 a "anti-church gays." 676 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:51,230 So I said, "Okay, let's do a listening Toulmin. 677 00:30:51,230 --> 00:30:55,980 Why don't you come to USGA and we have this listening?" 678 00:30:55,980 --> 00:30:58,650 So one of the things that I said is, 679 00:30:58,650 --> 00:31:01,700 "This meeting has to be completely confidential." 680 00:31:01,700 --> 00:31:03,820 Whatever you say on Thursday, 681 00:31:03,820 --> 00:31:05,700 I want it to be your own opinion, 682 00:31:05,700 --> 00:31:07,330 and I want you to be honest. 683 00:31:07,330 --> 00:31:10,290 I wouldn't necessarily suggest being like, 684 00:31:10,290 --> 00:31:12,410 "Oh, hey, I have a girlfriend," 685 00:31:12,410 --> 00:31:14,380 unless it is like extreme-- 686 00:31:14,380 --> 00:31:17,460 like you feel that it is 687 00:31:17,460 --> 00:31:21,880 like the linchpin to your argument or your story. 688 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,640 It's annoying and it's horrible, 689 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:26,260 but we kind of have to know our audience, 690 00:31:26,260 --> 00:31:27,350 and we're going in here, 691 00:31:27,350 --> 00:31:29,060 and they already are scared of us 692 00:31:29,060 --> 00:31:31,430 and don't understand us and think that we are like 693 00:31:31,430 --> 00:31:34,520 this anti-church crazed people. 694 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:35,770 And that's how they've grown up 695 00:31:35,770 --> 00:31:36,980 and that's everything they've been taught, 696 00:31:36,980 --> 00:31:39,360 so I think it's gonna be our job to show them 697 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,190 that we are--a lot of us are very spiritual people. 698 00:31:42,190 --> 00:31:43,320 Well, the problem-- 699 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:44,860 I mean, what's really interesting on this 700 00:31:44,860 --> 00:31:47,910 is, like, this could be the only time ever 701 00:31:47,910 --> 00:31:51,000 that a situation like this ever is experienced 702 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:52,410 where we have a white flag 703 00:31:52,410 --> 00:31:54,960 of literally just share your experience. 704 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:56,580 That's never gonna happen again. 705 00:31:56,580 --> 00:31:58,040 You can't just walk into the Honor Code Office 706 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,550 and be like, "Hey, I don't trust you." 707 00:32:00,550 --> 00:32:04,720 Like, you may live in fear constantly 708 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:06,550 of my existence, but you can't do that. 709 00:32:06,550 --> 00:32:09,220 And so, like, everything has to come out 710 00:32:09,220 --> 00:32:11,640 of this meeting. 711 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,560 Are they gonna explain what they're planning on? 712 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:16,560 Like, if they're gonna say, "We're gonna have committees, 713 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:18,110 we're gonna have activities, we're gonna have..." 714 00:32:18,110 --> 00:32:20,020 -None of that is planned. -Let me tell you 715 00:32:20,020 --> 00:32:22,320 exactly what they're gonna say to that: 716 00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,610 "I don't know what it's gonna look like. 717 00:32:25,610 --> 00:32:28,950 It's gonna be whatever the students decide it 718 00:32:28,950 --> 00:32:29,950 to look like." 719 00:32:29,950 --> 00:32:32,870 (shouting) 720 00:32:32,870 --> 00:32:35,370 (indistinct chatter) 721 00:32:35,370 --> 00:32:36,670 ♪ 722 00:32:36,670 --> 00:32:38,420 (sighing) 723 00:32:38,420 --> 00:32:40,500 It's really complicated. 724 00:32:40,500 --> 00:32:44,760 I think that the answer to just change the Honor Code 725 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:48,550 and let gay people date and, you know, 726 00:32:48,550 --> 00:32:51,260 totally open that up 727 00:32:51,260 --> 00:32:56,190 would be nice, but... 728 00:32:56,190 --> 00:32:59,270 ...the idea of marriage between a man and a woman 729 00:32:59,270 --> 00:33:01,190 is so deeply rooted now 730 00:33:01,190 --> 00:33:05,950 in our religious and campus culture 731 00:33:05,950 --> 00:33:07,780 that we can't really just do that 732 00:33:07,780 --> 00:33:09,240 so simplistically. 733 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:13,120 It's gonna take a lot more 734 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,580 before something like that actually happens. 735 00:33:15,580 --> 00:33:17,000 And, honestly, I don't even know 736 00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,380 if it's necessarily the best thing for BYU. 737 00:33:19,380 --> 00:33:21,840 We want to have a diverse campus 738 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,380 where people can feel safe and they can feel welcome, 739 00:33:25,380 --> 00:33:27,380 but at the same time, the whole purpose of BYU 740 00:33:27,380 --> 00:33:29,760 is to create a place 741 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:34,520 where people are going to support church policies, 742 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:36,180 church doctrine, 743 00:33:36,180 --> 00:33:38,770 and that's what makes BYU special and different 744 00:33:38,770 --> 00:33:44,020 than other state-run universities, for instance, 745 00:33:44,020 --> 00:33:46,190 and other private universities. 746 00:33:46,190 --> 00:33:51,070 And to allow gay people to, uh, 747 00:33:51,070 --> 00:33:53,660 you know, openly date and marry 748 00:33:53,660 --> 00:33:58,040 would, in some ways, detract 749 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,120 from that ideal. 750 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:01,380 And I think we can't really ignore 751 00:34:01,380 --> 00:34:03,920 the very real consequences of what these policies do 752 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:05,710 to our students. 753 00:34:05,710 --> 00:34:09,420 They do create a whole bunch of mental problems, 754 00:34:09,420 --> 00:34:10,680 mental illness, 755 00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:14,140 and they do cause people to commit suicide at times. 756 00:34:14,140 --> 00:34:16,560 But, yeah, as long as our doctrine 757 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:21,400 is that God has said marriage is between a man and a woman, 758 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,520 uh, I don't know if we really should change 759 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:26,610 the policies on campus 760 00:34:26,610 --> 00:34:29,990 'cause then it wouldn't really be BYU anymore. 761 00:34:29,990 --> 00:34:32,910 (bells chiming) 762 00:34:35,580 --> 00:34:38,200 (indistinct chatter) 763 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:39,830 You wanted to play games at theme night. 764 00:34:39,830 --> 00:34:43,040 (indistinct chatter) 765 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:44,960 (unintelligible) 766 00:34:46,420 --> 00:34:49,420 We could play PDQ. 767 00:34:49,420 --> 00:34:51,630 I'm really, really bad at it, so... 768 00:34:51,630 --> 00:34:53,180 I'm so good at it that it's like... 769 00:34:53,180 --> 00:34:55,050 Police car. 770 00:34:55,050 --> 00:34:58,020 For so many people, BYU and Utah, especially, 771 00:34:58,020 --> 00:35:01,020 are, like, the Promised Land 772 00:35:01,020 --> 00:35:04,020 even more than Utah people themselves 773 00:35:04,020 --> 00:35:06,020 see it that way, right? 774 00:35:06,020 --> 00:35:08,320 Like, if you can just make it to Zion, 775 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:09,900 like, everything is gonna be okay. 776 00:35:09,900 --> 00:35:12,530 If you go to BYU, everything is gonna be okay. 777 00:35:12,530 --> 00:35:14,200 That's how I felt. 778 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:15,910 And then it wasn't. 779 00:35:17,870 --> 00:35:19,330 The first thing BYU needs to do 780 00:35:19,330 --> 00:35:22,160 if they ever want to be a safer space 781 00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:24,420 for queer people, they've got to get rid of the Honor Code. 782 00:35:24,420 --> 00:35:28,840 Like, or at least really, really drastically change it. 783 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:30,510 I mean, it's so crappy that at this point, 784 00:35:30,510 --> 00:35:31,840 anything is gonna be an improvement. 785 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:33,470 A clarification on the Honor Code 786 00:35:33,470 --> 00:35:34,680 would be an improvement, 787 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,890 but especially the setup of having 788 00:35:37,890 --> 00:35:39,520 a different Honor Code for queer people 789 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:41,520 than for straight people, like, is so wrong. 790 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:45,100 Like, they can't even start doing anything different 791 00:35:45,100 --> 00:35:47,360 until they do that, and they're like, 792 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:49,020 "Hey, we're gonna get this on-campus group 793 00:35:49,020 --> 00:35:50,900 and it's gonna be great," and I'm like, 794 00:35:50,900 --> 00:35:52,360 "How about you do something actually helpful 795 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:54,280 because we have a group." 796 00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,200 I'm on meds, so I should be fine. 797 00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:00,080 (unintelligible) 798 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,290 Right? New life motto. 799 00:36:02,290 --> 00:36:05,170 "I'm on meds, so I should be fine." 800 00:36:05,170 --> 00:36:07,960 -I'm on new meds. -Me too. 801 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:10,840 Oh, man. 802 00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,760 I'm glad my laugh finally dropped, too. 803 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,010 It was so funny when I would laugh 804 00:36:16,010 --> 00:36:19,970 and then it would be, like, in my old voice. 805 00:36:19,970 --> 00:36:21,600 Oh, man. 806 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:23,810 Yeah, oh, I'm excited about it. 807 00:36:23,810 --> 00:36:24,850 I'm starting to get a little bit 808 00:36:24,850 --> 00:36:27,190 on, like, the bottom of my jaw. 809 00:36:27,190 --> 00:36:29,480 And then my chin, my chin was longer. 810 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:31,820 It was quite long, and then I had a meeting 811 00:36:31,820 --> 00:36:33,820 with administration, right? 812 00:36:33,820 --> 00:36:36,700 And, so, actually, I couldn't bear to shave it 813 00:36:36,700 --> 00:36:38,700 and so I actually took, I was like, 814 00:36:38,700 --> 00:36:39,740 I didn't know if it was gonna work, 815 00:36:39,740 --> 00:36:40,740 so I was like, "If it looks bad, 816 00:36:40,740 --> 00:36:42,160 I'll just shave it off," but I took scissors 817 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,710 and I just carefully trimmed around, 818 00:36:44,710 --> 00:36:47,370 and I actually got it all the same height. 819 00:36:47,370 --> 00:36:49,080 It was--I thought I did pretty good. 820 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:51,460 And, so, then, it was really-- it was just really short 821 00:36:51,460 --> 00:36:54,720 and then it wasn't so sad, you know? 822 00:36:54,720 --> 00:36:57,130 (indistinct chatter) 823 00:36:59,260 --> 00:37:03,350 Right, so every week, I can sing a note lower, like... 824 00:37:03,350 --> 00:37:06,600 -It goes fast. -It does go fast, yeah. 825 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:10,150 So, I went into the court, and I remember 826 00:37:10,150 --> 00:37:12,730 kind of wishing that I'd brought a friend with me 827 00:37:12,730 --> 00:37:13,980 because it was, like... 828 00:37:13,980 --> 00:37:15,360 I thought it was just gonna be, like, me 829 00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:16,650 and the judge or something, but, no, 830 00:37:16,650 --> 00:37:17,990 that place was full. 831 00:37:17,990 --> 00:37:19,490 There were, like, 50 people in there 832 00:37:19,490 --> 00:37:20,950 that the judge had to see. 833 00:37:20,950 --> 00:37:22,490 And they went through, we all have 834 00:37:22,490 --> 00:37:24,660 the same 2:00 appointment, they were all there, 835 00:37:24,660 --> 00:37:26,210 and they just kept going up and up. 836 00:37:26,210 --> 00:37:27,830 I'd never been to something like this, 837 00:37:27,830 --> 00:37:29,630 like, I'd never watched anything like it, 838 00:37:29,630 --> 00:37:31,670 so it was really interesting, actually. 839 00:37:31,670 --> 00:37:33,090 Anyway, so all the people are going up, 840 00:37:33,090 --> 00:37:35,960 and I ended up being the very last one, 841 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:37,630 which I was grateful for, right, 842 00:37:37,630 --> 00:37:39,550 so I didn't have to be up in front of everybody 843 00:37:39,550 --> 00:37:41,510 and kind of out myself, you know? 844 00:37:41,510 --> 00:37:44,010 And, you know, the judge calls you up by name, 845 00:37:44,010 --> 00:37:46,520 but with me, he didn't say my legal name, 846 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:48,190 he just said my last name. 847 00:37:48,190 --> 00:37:50,940 So he was like, "So, now we will do the Cano matter," 848 00:37:50,940 --> 00:37:52,440 I think something like that is how he did it, 849 00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:53,900 so he didn't have to say my name 850 00:37:53,900 --> 00:37:55,900 or a Mr. or a Mrs., you know? 851 00:37:55,900 --> 00:37:58,110 So up I went, you know, I was the last one. 852 00:37:58,110 --> 00:37:59,860 He was very nice, he was like, "Hey, 853 00:37:59,860 --> 00:38:01,570 like, it's good to have you here. 854 00:38:01,570 --> 00:38:03,080 I just want to ask you a few questions. 855 00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:05,330 So, how's your transition going?" 856 00:38:05,330 --> 00:38:08,830 Used all the right language, like, perfect, you know? 857 00:38:08,830 --> 00:38:10,870 And I was like, "You know, it's been going great." 858 00:38:10,870 --> 00:38:13,670 He's like, "So, what have you done medically 859 00:38:13,670 --> 00:38:15,130 to transition," and I was like, "Oh, 860 00:38:15,130 --> 00:38:17,550 so I started hormones so many months ago." 861 00:38:17,550 --> 00:38:19,340 And he's like, "How has that been for you?" 862 00:38:19,340 --> 00:38:20,470 And I was like, "Oh, it's been great." 863 00:38:20,470 --> 00:38:22,050 And he was like, "Well, great. 864 00:38:22,050 --> 00:38:24,260 So, Mr. Cano, right?" 865 00:38:24,260 --> 00:38:25,140 And I was like, "Yeah." 866 00:38:25,140 --> 00:38:26,140 And he was like, "Okay. 867 00:38:26,140 --> 00:38:27,720 So, that's it. 868 00:38:27,720 --> 00:38:29,560 I'll sign this," blah, blah, blah. 869 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:30,980 It took, like, two minutes. 870 00:38:30,980 --> 00:38:32,980 That's basically the whole thing. 871 00:38:32,980 --> 00:38:34,690 And, then, two days later, 872 00:38:34,690 --> 00:38:36,150 I went and picked up the court order. 873 00:38:36,150 --> 00:38:37,190 The day after that, 874 00:38:37,190 --> 00:38:39,320 I went to the Social Security Office 875 00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:41,240 and, like, I just never used to keep 876 00:38:41,240 --> 00:38:43,030 my social security card with me, 877 00:38:43,030 --> 00:38:44,990 and I just, like, I keep it with me 878 00:38:44,990 --> 00:38:47,410 'cause I just like looking at my name on there. 879 00:38:47,410 --> 00:38:48,660 So I'm really excited about it, 880 00:38:48,660 --> 00:38:50,660 and I show it to just about everybody who I like, 881 00:38:50,660 --> 00:38:53,040 my social security card. 882 00:38:53,040 --> 00:39:02,970 ♪ 883 00:39:10,020 --> 00:39:12,350 So this is the Harris Fine Arts Center. 884 00:39:12,350 --> 00:39:17,070 This is the home for a lot of LGBT students. 885 00:39:17,070 --> 00:39:20,190 Not every place on campus is as homophobic as others. 886 00:39:20,190 --> 00:39:22,950 My particular department is actually pretty good. 887 00:39:22,950 --> 00:39:26,240 I'm out to most of my professors. 888 00:39:26,240 --> 00:39:30,080 I can bring up discussions about queer themes in class 889 00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,000 and discussions, and it's actually really nice 890 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:34,710 to be able to be so open. 891 00:39:34,710 --> 00:39:36,290 And a lot of the people in the HFAC 892 00:39:36,290 --> 00:39:38,590 have a similar case. 893 00:39:38,590 --> 00:39:41,420 But other majors are not so kind. 894 00:39:41,420 --> 00:39:44,680 Math, engineering, the hard sciences, 895 00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:46,140 it's actually a lot more difficult 896 00:39:46,140 --> 00:39:47,850 for people in those majors, 897 00:39:47,850 --> 00:39:51,350 and they can often feel, uh, ostracized, 898 00:39:51,350 --> 00:39:53,020 hear homophobic comments from classmates 899 00:39:53,020 --> 00:39:55,850 or even professors. 900 00:39:55,850 --> 00:40:00,820 So, we are, in some senses, a campus divided. 901 00:40:00,820 --> 00:40:06,280 ♪ 902 00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:08,280 I'm very stressed about tonight. 903 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:10,040 Theoretically, it will be great 904 00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:11,870 and it will be the first time we've had 905 00:40:11,870 --> 00:40:15,210 like a white flag and it will be, um, 906 00:40:15,210 --> 00:40:18,130 like this really great kind of like thing 907 00:40:18,130 --> 00:40:19,170 that's never happened before. 908 00:40:19,170 --> 00:40:20,500 We're kind of making history tonight, 909 00:40:20,500 --> 00:40:21,880 the fact that we're coming together 910 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,260 and we are completely safe to say whatever we want. 911 00:40:24,260 --> 00:40:25,220 That's a big deal. 912 00:40:25,220 --> 00:40:26,760 That's really big. 913 00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:29,550 Who knows if it's actually completely true? 914 00:40:29,550 --> 00:40:31,890 I think we probably still should be careful, 915 00:40:31,890 --> 00:40:34,310 but, theoretically, like, that's a big deal. 916 00:40:34,310 --> 00:40:37,100 But I've never been excited about them getting rid of us 917 00:40:37,100 --> 00:40:38,860 to replace us with someone else on campus. 918 00:40:38,860 --> 00:40:40,770 I've just never been happy about it, 919 00:40:40,770 --> 00:40:42,530 never been really okay with it. 920 00:40:42,530 --> 00:40:44,280 And I don't really trust most of the people involved. 921 00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:46,450 They're good people, 922 00:40:46,450 --> 00:40:50,030 but they're not us, I guess. 923 00:40:50,030 --> 00:40:51,910 I'm kind of gonna be attacking them. 924 00:40:51,910 --> 00:40:54,080 I don't trust them, I don't appreciate 925 00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:55,580 what they have done till this point. 926 00:40:55,580 --> 00:40:57,170 I mean, I appreciate that they've tried, 927 00:40:57,170 --> 00:40:58,540 but they haven't done enough, 928 00:40:58,540 --> 00:40:59,920 they haven't done it well enough, 929 00:40:59,920 --> 00:41:01,040 and if they really cared, 930 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:02,500 things would have happened before now. 931 00:41:02,500 --> 00:41:04,510 There's a lot I want to say, but I don't know if I will 932 00:41:04,510 --> 00:41:07,590 just because I don't want to get on their bad side 933 00:41:07,590 --> 00:41:08,930 because we need to keep on good terms 934 00:41:08,930 --> 00:41:10,970 if they want to keep working with us. 935 00:41:10,970 --> 00:41:13,390 And it's just playing this game of politics 936 00:41:13,390 --> 00:41:14,520 that I just hate. 937 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:17,060 When this on-campus group starts up, 938 00:41:17,060 --> 00:41:20,480 there isn't really gonna be demand for two groups. 939 00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:22,110 They're not gonna both be sustainable, 940 00:41:22,110 --> 00:41:25,240 so either, you know, USGA will need to move 941 00:41:25,240 --> 00:41:26,820 to this group and support this group, 942 00:41:26,820 --> 00:41:31,240 or if it remains separate, one of them will die. 943 00:41:31,240 --> 00:41:32,580 But, hopefully, with this discussion, 944 00:41:32,580 --> 00:41:36,040 we can really make sure that this new on-campus group 945 00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:39,830 will be actually a safe and comfortable place 946 00:41:39,830 --> 00:41:41,170 for the USGA members to go. 947 00:41:41,170 --> 00:41:44,000 Um, okay, so one of the kind of rules 948 00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,470 to be here tonight is that we all need to agree 949 00:41:46,470 --> 00:41:48,510 that nothing said will be shared. 950 00:41:48,510 --> 00:41:51,300 (unintelligible) 951 00:41:51,300 --> 00:41:52,350 ...go out and say, oh, well, you know, 952 00:41:52,350 --> 00:41:53,850 so-and-so just said all this. 953 00:41:53,850 --> 00:41:55,520 Please don't do that. 954 00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:57,770 We also ask that you not take anything said tonight 955 00:41:57,770 --> 00:42:01,440 to the Honor Code Office or to ecclesiastical leaders. 956 00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:05,480 We ask that no one take any audio or visual recording 957 00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:06,490 of this meeting. 958 00:42:06,490 --> 00:42:08,110 If that's not something you can agree to, 959 00:42:08,110 --> 00:42:09,530 please step out now. 960 00:42:09,530 --> 00:42:12,570 You can take pencil and paper notes. 961 00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:18,040 So, talk to us about what happened tonight. 962 00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:19,660 What do you think went well? 963 00:42:19,660 --> 00:42:21,330 What do you wish went better? 964 00:42:21,330 --> 00:42:23,170 That was a lot more emotional than I thought it was. 965 00:42:23,170 --> 00:42:25,750 Um... 966 00:42:25,750 --> 00:42:27,630 I, like, found myself on the verge of tears 967 00:42:27,630 --> 00:42:29,720 a lot more than I thought I was going to be. 968 00:42:29,720 --> 00:42:32,180 I'm so mad. I'm so mad! 969 00:42:32,180 --> 00:42:33,850 Um... 970 00:42:33,850 --> 00:42:37,850 We're mixed on if we should go on campus or not. 971 00:42:37,850 --> 00:42:39,770 We're kind of resigned to it, though. 972 00:42:39,770 --> 00:42:41,810 Um... 973 00:42:41,810 --> 00:42:43,730 We aren't safe. 974 00:42:43,730 --> 00:42:44,770 No one feels safe. 975 00:42:44,770 --> 00:42:46,270 I think that's the general consensus. 976 00:42:46,270 --> 00:42:49,190 -Okay. -I hope they listened. 977 00:42:49,190 --> 00:42:51,490 I wish they would give a damn 'cause they were 978 00:42:51,490 --> 00:42:53,410 just sitting there and be like, "Okay, yes." 979 00:42:53,410 --> 00:42:56,080 Like, "Okay, sure, okay." 980 00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:58,040 They looked so distant and so separated. 981 00:42:58,040 --> 00:42:59,870 This isn't fucking about you. 982 00:42:59,870 --> 00:43:01,210 This is not... 983 00:43:01,210 --> 00:43:02,370 Like, this is a fucking big deal. 984 00:43:02,370 --> 00:43:03,790 Can you not tell? 985 00:43:03,790 --> 00:43:06,130 Did you not feel that like I did? 986 00:43:06,130 --> 00:43:07,500 It's like missionaries sitting in the room 987 00:43:07,500 --> 00:43:09,010 where they're just like, "The spirit was so strong," 988 00:43:09,010 --> 00:43:10,010 and the person sitting in there is just like, 989 00:43:10,010 --> 00:43:11,050 "I don't feel it." 990 00:43:11,050 --> 00:43:12,720 Like, it's that level of offensiveness 991 00:43:12,720 --> 00:43:14,720 that I feel right now. 992 00:43:14,720 --> 00:43:17,510 Like, I hope to death that they felt that 993 00:43:17,510 --> 00:43:19,100 and that it made a difference to them 994 00:43:19,100 --> 00:43:21,020 because there was a strong feeling in that room. 995 00:43:21,020 --> 00:43:22,390 There was so much emotion, so much honesty, 996 00:43:22,390 --> 00:43:23,900 and so much vulnerability 997 00:43:23,900 --> 00:43:26,360 which is stronger than any spirit out there. 998 00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:29,110 And if they did not feel that... 999 00:43:30,900 --> 00:43:32,450 I guess there's not anything you can do about it, 1000 00:43:32,450 --> 00:43:35,910 but I'll be so fucking pissed. 1001 00:43:49,130 --> 00:43:53,220 So this is the basement of the Harris Fine Arts Center. 1002 00:43:53,220 --> 00:43:55,640 So this is considered the second 1003 00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:58,890 of BYU's witch hunts for gay students. 1004 00:43:58,890 --> 00:44:02,520 BYU Police, the campus's own police force, 1005 00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:05,480 came in and pulled out any male student 1006 00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:07,560 in theater or ballet, 1007 00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:10,530 because they thought that there was a homosexual ring 1008 00:44:10,530 --> 00:44:12,650 occurring on campus. 1009 00:44:12,650 --> 00:44:14,450 And they would interrogate them 1010 00:44:14,450 --> 00:44:17,280 and ask if they were engaged in homosexual activity, 1011 00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:19,450 if they knew other homosexual people. 1012 00:44:19,450 --> 00:44:21,240 And some people, again, confessed, 1013 00:44:21,240 --> 00:44:23,960 and it didn't end up terribly well for them. 1014 00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:26,790 Other people were silent. 1015 00:44:26,790 --> 00:44:30,300 But BYU Police, particularly in the late '70s, 1016 00:44:30,300 --> 00:44:32,840 was doing a lot to try and find 1017 00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:36,180 and remove homosexual students from BYU. 1018 00:44:36,180 --> 00:44:38,890 They even did sting operations 1019 00:44:38,890 --> 00:44:41,430 where they would put out letters 1020 00:44:41,430 --> 00:44:43,270 in gay newspapers in Salt Lake 1021 00:44:43,270 --> 00:44:48,060 asking if other BYU students wanted to form a group 1022 00:44:48,060 --> 00:44:49,860 and then find people that responded, 1023 00:44:49,860 --> 00:44:52,480 they would investigate and usually expel. 1024 00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:56,780 They even put an undercover agent, as it were, 1025 00:44:56,780 --> 00:44:59,530 to respond to one of those letters, 1026 00:44:59,530 --> 00:45:02,540 found another gay person, 22 years old. 1027 00:45:02,540 --> 00:45:04,960 This undercover man convinced him 1028 00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:08,920 to drive up to Provo Canyon. 1029 00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:13,300 When the gay man, young man, 1030 00:45:13,300 --> 00:45:15,920 made sexual advances, 1031 00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:18,510 the undercover man cried out 1032 00:45:18,510 --> 00:45:23,220 and brought a swarm of police onto that guy to remove him, 1033 00:45:23,220 --> 00:45:27,440 and he was charged with forcible sodomy. 1034 00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:29,230 Probably wasn't so forcible, 1035 00:45:29,230 --> 00:45:31,190 but that was what they charged him with. 1036 00:45:31,190 --> 00:45:33,730 Sodomy, which was anal and oral sex, 1037 00:45:33,730 --> 00:45:36,440 was illegal in Utah until 2003. 1038 00:45:41,240 --> 00:45:43,830 Yeah, things have be moving remarkably fast 1039 00:45:43,830 --> 00:45:45,540 in the last few decades. 1040 00:45:58,630 --> 00:46:01,430 (cell phone vibrating) 1041 00:46:09,310 --> 00:46:12,310 Um... 1042 00:46:12,310 --> 00:46:13,980 Are you okay? 1043 00:46:20,530 --> 00:46:22,620 Everything is okay right now. 1044 00:46:22,620 --> 00:46:23,660 Are you sure? 1045 00:46:23,660 --> 00:46:25,410 I mean, we're all an emotional wreck, 1046 00:46:25,410 --> 00:46:27,580 but we're safe right now. 1047 00:46:27,580 --> 00:46:29,370 Who was the Honor Code violation called on? 1048 00:46:29,370 --> 00:46:30,870 Was it just you? 1049 00:46:30,870 --> 00:46:31,960 No, all three of us. 1050 00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:34,500 -All three of you. -Mhm. 1051 00:46:34,500 --> 00:46:36,050 There's no, technically, Honor Code right now, 1052 00:46:36,050 --> 00:46:40,130 it's just an Honor Code violation of housing. 1053 00:46:40,130 --> 00:46:43,180 -Oh, of housing. -Yeah. 1054 00:46:43,180 --> 00:46:44,600 What is your violation, though? 1055 00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:46,010 Just not... 1056 00:46:46,010 --> 00:46:49,770 Um, yeah, the letter said something 1057 00:46:49,770 --> 00:46:54,150 about obscene, lewd, or offensive conduct 1058 00:46:54,150 --> 00:46:55,820 or something like that. 1059 00:46:57,940 --> 00:47:04,450 Oh, yeah, "obscene, indecent, erotic, or offensive." 1060 00:47:04,450 --> 00:47:07,370 I have no idea. 1061 00:47:07,370 --> 00:47:08,870 They won't talk to us, so... 1062 00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:15,880 -Hello. -Hello. 1063 00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:16,960 Come on in. 1064 00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:20,550 Yup, we just haven't heard anything! 1065 00:47:20,550 --> 00:47:23,260 -So weird, right? -Yeah. 1066 00:47:23,260 --> 00:47:25,260 You guys were, like, friends with most of them, weren't you? 1067 00:47:25,260 --> 00:47:26,430 Yeah. 1068 00:47:28,850 --> 00:47:31,680 We had a meeting with them last Monday 1069 00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:34,190 after our ice castle date, and like-- 1070 00:47:34,190 --> 00:47:35,610 What were they concerned about? 1071 00:47:35,610 --> 00:47:38,820 Um, "The spirit is gone from the apartment," 1072 00:47:38,820 --> 00:47:41,190 -and yeah. -It was a lot. 1073 00:47:41,190 --> 00:47:42,200 It was a lot. 1074 00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:44,860 We all had, like, expectations set up 1075 00:47:44,860 --> 00:47:46,620 and what the boundaries were gonna be 1076 00:47:46,620 --> 00:47:49,990 and who was safe and who wasn't in their lives 1077 00:47:49,990 --> 00:47:52,040 so that we would know when they were coming over, 1078 00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:57,880 and they seemed totally, 100% okay with everything. 1079 00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:02,260 But then they moved out two days later 1080 00:48:02,260 --> 00:48:03,510 without talking to us. 1081 00:48:03,510 --> 00:48:06,850 So tomorrow, we've got a meeting with them 1082 00:48:06,850 --> 00:48:10,430 to figure out what's going on, 1083 00:48:10,430 --> 00:48:12,640 'cause they left us all letters. 1084 00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:14,270 Property management. 1085 00:48:14,270 --> 00:48:16,650 They all have that. 1086 00:48:16,650 --> 00:48:20,860 They're all, like, stuck in the door. 1087 00:48:20,860 --> 00:48:24,650 With a cute little Raintree Commons header. 1088 00:48:24,650 --> 00:48:27,160 "Three-day notice to comply or vacate. 1089 00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:28,490 All students and residents 1090 00:48:28,490 --> 00:48:30,160 shall be required to conduct themselves 1091 00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:32,410 in a manner consistent with the BYU Honor Code, 1092 00:48:32,410 --> 00:48:34,660 including abstaining from possessing, serving, 1093 00:48:34,660 --> 00:48:36,670 or consuming alcoholic beverages. 1094 00:48:36,670 --> 00:48:39,250 Involvement with gambling, pornographic..." 1095 00:48:39,250 --> 00:48:42,590 the rest of this line is highlighted: 1096 00:48:42,590 --> 00:48:45,260 "...erotic, indecent, or offensive material, 1097 00:48:45,260 --> 00:48:48,090 obscene or indecent conduct or expressions, 1098 00:48:48,090 --> 00:48:50,350 disorderly or disruptive conduct, 1099 00:48:50,350 --> 00:48:53,060 or any other conduct or action inconsistent 1100 00:48:53,060 --> 00:48:54,520 with the BYU Honor Code. 1101 00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:56,140 Students are expected to keep-- 1102 00:48:56,140 --> 00:48:58,400 or help their guests and other residents." 1103 00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:00,060 Blah, blah, blah, "keep the Honor Code. 1104 00:49:00,060 --> 00:49:02,690 Please be advised, within three days of this notice, 1105 00:49:02,690 --> 00:49:04,990 you must either one, comply with the terms 1106 00:49:04,990 --> 00:49:07,110 of your contract; two, vacate the apartment, 1107 00:49:07,110 --> 00:49:08,490 which does not release you 1108 00:49:08,490 --> 00:49:12,120 from your contractual obligation. 1109 00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:13,620 We'll follow up if you fail 1110 00:49:13,620 --> 00:49:15,750 to take any of the three steps listed above by Thursday. 1111 00:49:15,750 --> 00:49:17,210 Action will be taken to evict you 1112 00:49:17,210 --> 00:49:18,630 from the apartment." 1113 00:49:22,300 --> 00:49:25,970 Us being together is "erotic, indecent, 1114 00:49:25,970 --> 00:49:27,680 or offensive material, 1115 00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:31,180 obscene or indecent conduct or expressions." 1116 00:49:31,180 --> 00:49:34,720 On the letter, it said that if we don't comply or whatever, 1117 00:49:34,720 --> 00:49:36,600 we need to be out by Thursday. 1118 00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:38,190 At which point, we'll still be responsible 1119 00:49:38,190 --> 00:49:43,440 for paying rent for the rest of the contract. 1120 00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:45,570 So... 1121 00:49:45,570 --> 00:49:47,700 Let's see what happens! 1122 00:49:47,700 --> 00:49:49,450 In a week, either things 1123 00:49:49,450 --> 00:49:52,780 will be really okay and resolved, 1124 00:49:52,780 --> 00:49:56,790 or they'll be real bad and we won't be living here. 1125 00:49:56,790 --> 00:49:59,830 And hopefully we'll still be in school. 1126 00:49:59,830 --> 00:50:03,290 ♪ 1127 00:50:03,290 --> 00:50:06,170 (indistinct singing) 1128 00:50:06,170 --> 00:50:12,850 ♪ 1129 00:50:12,850 --> 00:50:14,510 Okay. 1130 00:50:14,510 --> 00:50:18,430 Great job, that was very exciting and fun. 1131 00:50:18,430 --> 00:50:21,650 They are interested in doing another meeting with us. 1132 00:50:21,650 --> 00:50:23,860 The idea is that it would be-- 1133 00:50:23,860 --> 00:50:27,530 once the Working Group has come back together... 1134 00:50:27,530 --> 00:50:29,400 So currently, the end goal is still the group. 1135 00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:30,990 Yeah. 1136 00:50:30,990 --> 00:50:32,660 So they didn't listen. 1137 00:50:32,660 --> 00:50:34,780 Stupid. 1138 00:50:34,780 --> 00:50:38,080 Well, these committees were decided before the event. 1139 00:50:38,080 --> 00:50:39,580 Yeah. 1140 00:50:39,580 --> 00:50:42,130 Yeah, in our little Working Group meeting yesterday, 1141 00:50:42,130 --> 00:50:43,420 we were talking about stuff 1142 00:50:43,420 --> 00:50:47,590 and Deb--it was funny that she brought it up, 1143 00:50:47,590 --> 00:50:49,220 that Deb brought it up, she was like, 1144 00:50:49,220 --> 00:50:50,930 "Well, why can't USGA just cover it all?" 1145 00:50:50,930 --> 00:50:52,260 Did they have an answer for her? 1146 00:50:52,260 --> 00:50:54,050 No, there's no adequate answer ever. 1147 00:50:54,050 --> 00:50:55,810 These people have PhDs! 1148 00:50:55,810 --> 00:50:57,600 These people are college-educated, 1149 00:50:57,600 --> 00:50:58,810 straight white people. 1150 00:50:58,810 --> 00:51:00,310 Why are they not using their privilege 1151 00:51:00,310 --> 00:51:01,770 to not be idiots? 1152 00:51:08,030 --> 00:51:10,400 (laughing) 1153 00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:12,860 It's still a mystery/arbitrary mess. 1154 00:51:12,860 --> 00:51:15,450 This wasn't based off of-- and I've been told this, 1155 00:51:15,450 --> 00:51:18,620 this wasn't based off of qualification. 1156 00:51:18,620 --> 00:51:20,370 Why wouldn't it be-- 1157 00:51:20,370 --> 00:51:21,790 Right? 1158 00:51:21,790 --> 00:51:23,580 (mixed chatter) 1159 00:51:23,580 --> 00:51:26,040 Why wouldn't we want qualified people? 1160 00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:28,880 -I know. -It's based on what Brynn said, 1161 00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:32,470 people that made them feel warm and fuzzy inside. 1162 00:51:32,470 --> 00:51:36,010 -We've done that! -We have answers for them! 1163 00:51:36,010 --> 00:51:40,100 Start endorsing us and then work from there. 1164 00:51:40,100 --> 00:51:42,520 They can make a website that says BYU and Gay 1165 00:51:42,520 --> 00:51:45,900 and whatever the other political things they want, 1166 00:51:45,900 --> 00:51:48,320 but they need to actually endorse something 1167 00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:52,610 that is feasible and existent and helpful. 1168 00:51:52,610 --> 00:51:54,410 Is this a resource for queer students 1169 00:51:54,410 --> 00:51:55,950 or is this a resource for all the straight people 1170 00:51:55,950 --> 00:51:57,660 to learn how to be okay with us? 1171 00:51:57,660 --> 00:51:59,410 Oh, wow, that's a real good question. 1172 00:51:59,410 --> 00:52:01,910 Write that down. 1173 00:52:01,910 --> 00:52:05,580 I guarantee you that USGA will not be linked to this 1174 00:52:05,580 --> 00:52:07,250 -in any way, shape, or form. -This doesn't sound 1175 00:52:07,250 --> 00:52:09,250 like it's for queer people at all. 1176 00:52:09,250 --> 00:52:10,300 What is this for at all? 1177 00:52:10,300 --> 00:52:11,380 It doesn't seem like it has a purpose. 1178 00:52:11,380 --> 00:52:12,760 I would like there to be a page that says, 1179 00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:15,090 "Hey, kids, when your roommate comes out to you, be cool." 1180 00:52:15,090 --> 00:52:16,300 Like, I want that to be on there. 1181 00:52:16,300 --> 00:52:18,050 But this isn't a resource for us. 1182 00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:38,160 I can't be as authentically happy as I want to be 1183 00:52:38,160 --> 00:52:39,910 with my parents. 1184 00:52:39,910 --> 00:52:42,200 Because I feel like-- I still feel like 1185 00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:44,210 they might turn me in. 1186 00:52:44,210 --> 00:52:47,710 If I started dating guys and I did that weird thing, 1187 00:52:47,710 --> 00:52:49,500 and then like was like, "I'm gonna do the Mormon thing. 1188 00:52:49,500 --> 00:52:50,590 I want to get married in the temple, 1189 00:52:50,590 --> 00:52:51,590 I want to do this," 1190 00:52:51,590 --> 00:52:53,460 and my parents were so happy and proud of me. 1191 00:52:53,460 --> 00:52:56,300 And I had their, like-- not their love, 1192 00:52:56,300 --> 00:52:57,430 because I've always had their love, 1193 00:52:57,430 --> 00:53:01,810 but like, they were proud of me. 1194 00:53:01,810 --> 00:53:03,930 And that is something I thought I would never get again, 1195 00:53:03,930 --> 00:53:07,270 because I would get As, I would get fives on AP tests, 1196 00:53:07,270 --> 00:53:10,820 I would do well at things, but like... 1197 00:53:10,820 --> 00:53:13,530 but there was always like, "But you're gay." 1198 00:53:13,530 --> 00:53:15,240 But if I just could get over it, 1199 00:53:15,240 --> 00:53:17,450 then I could have my parents' approval again 1200 00:53:17,450 --> 00:53:19,160 just like I always had. 1201 00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:20,530 I'm like my dad's favorite kid, 1202 00:53:20,530 --> 00:53:24,410 and like, he'll never say that, 1203 00:53:24,410 --> 00:53:27,080 but I was the oldest, or am the oldest, 1204 00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:29,500 and there's just that connection there 1205 00:53:29,500 --> 00:53:32,090 that we have that-- 1206 00:53:32,090 --> 00:53:33,590 he has different ones with all of his kids, 1207 00:53:33,590 --> 00:53:35,630 but like there's that one that we have. 1208 00:53:35,630 --> 00:53:37,510 And so my dad has always been very important to me, 1209 00:53:37,510 --> 00:53:39,340 and so the fact that he was proud of me, 1210 00:53:39,340 --> 00:53:40,550 I was just like, oh, my gosh, 1211 00:53:40,550 --> 00:53:43,430 this is like everything I ever wanted. 1212 00:53:43,430 --> 00:53:45,810 I started having anxiety and that was freaky, 1213 00:53:45,810 --> 00:53:50,350 because I was being inauthentic to myself again, 1214 00:53:50,350 --> 00:53:52,820 which was so hard, which sucked. 1215 00:53:52,820 --> 00:53:54,980 Trying to, like, live with pleasing other people, 1216 00:53:54,980 --> 00:53:57,400 I think that's what mostly caused it to explode. 1217 00:53:57,400 --> 00:53:58,990 Looking in the mirror and not being happy with myself 1218 00:53:58,990 --> 00:54:00,660 for whatever reason. 1219 00:54:00,660 --> 00:54:02,450 The combination of those things. 1220 00:54:02,450 --> 00:54:05,200 (mixed chatter) 1221 00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:07,830 (laughing) 1222 00:54:07,830 --> 00:54:09,870 Yeah, that's her. 1223 00:54:09,870 --> 00:54:10,880 Cute! 1224 00:54:13,340 --> 00:54:14,590 For you to see. 1225 00:54:16,460 --> 00:54:19,010 She's really great, and really, really good to me, 1226 00:54:19,010 --> 00:54:22,140 which I'm not used to, so... 1227 00:54:34,070 --> 00:54:36,320 All right, so, you're not in your old apartment. 1228 00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:38,530 -What happened? -We're not in our old apartment. 1229 00:54:38,530 --> 00:54:41,820 We moved mid-school week and still have been expected 1230 00:54:41,820 --> 00:54:44,030 to get all of our homework done and everything, 1231 00:54:44,030 --> 00:54:46,490 which has been fine. 1232 00:54:46,490 --> 00:54:48,410 I'm a little bit behind on everything. 1233 00:54:48,410 --> 00:54:54,210 And then on Friday, I think, 1234 00:54:54,210 --> 00:54:59,720 we got--only Lex and I had these official BYU 1235 00:54:59,720 --> 00:55:01,720 envelopes in the mail. 1236 00:55:01,720 --> 00:55:04,260 And I was like, "This could be the official notice 1237 00:55:04,260 --> 00:55:05,760 that we're going to hell." 1238 00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:06,810 And we open it up, 1239 00:55:06,810 --> 00:55:09,730 and from the BYU Honor Code Office, 1240 00:55:09,730 --> 00:55:12,100 it was this letter from our bishop 1241 00:55:12,100 --> 00:55:17,690 saying that we may have our endorsements withdrawn 1242 00:55:17,690 --> 00:55:20,240 if we didn't contact him and figure things out. 1243 00:55:20,240 --> 00:55:22,280 He was basically like, "Okay, so as soon as 1244 00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:24,200 you move into your new place, 1245 00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:26,950 you need to immediately contact your new bishop, 1246 00:55:26,950 --> 00:55:28,910 and I will be in contact with him, 1247 00:55:28,910 --> 00:55:31,580 and if you don't talk to him, then I will make sure 1248 00:55:31,580 --> 00:55:33,210 your endorsement gets withdrawn." 1249 00:55:33,210 --> 00:55:34,500 I don't know how long it takes for him 1250 00:55:34,500 --> 00:55:35,880 to contact the Honor Code Office 1251 00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:37,380 and be like, "Hey, withdraw their endorsements," 1252 00:55:37,380 --> 00:55:39,510 before they send out the letter and before we get it 1253 00:55:39,510 --> 00:55:41,760 and all that type of thing, so he could've sent it out 1254 00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:43,300 the day that they decided to move out 1255 00:55:43,300 --> 00:55:46,680 or before then or who knows? 1256 00:55:46,680 --> 00:55:48,760 It's just like, it keeps being 1257 00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:51,430 like one more thing after the next, 1258 00:55:51,430 --> 00:55:55,810 so hopefully everything is settled right now 1259 00:55:55,810 --> 00:55:59,730 and won't be an issue again after we contact our new bishop. 1260 00:55:59,730 --> 00:56:02,950 But it could also be the next thing 1261 00:56:02,950 --> 00:56:04,490 is a letter from the Honor Code Office 1262 00:56:04,490 --> 00:56:06,620 being like, "Hey, someone reported you to us 1263 00:56:06,620 --> 00:56:10,660 and now you're on our list to..." whatever. 1264 00:56:10,660 --> 00:56:14,080 Have a hearing for or whatever it happens to be, so... 1265 00:56:17,080 --> 00:56:18,460 I don't know. 1266 00:56:24,880 --> 00:56:27,260 So this is... 1267 00:56:27,260 --> 00:56:28,550 you know, I only know it by its acronym. 1268 00:56:28,550 --> 00:56:30,260 It's the MARB. 1269 00:56:30,260 --> 00:56:32,180 Hopefully there's no class in here. 1270 00:56:32,180 --> 00:56:33,390 Doesn't look like it. 1271 00:56:35,940 --> 00:56:44,110 So this is where USGA had its first large panel. 1272 00:56:44,110 --> 00:56:47,950 It was back in 2012, 1273 00:56:47,950 --> 00:56:51,490 and it at first was going to be a small sociology panel. 1274 00:56:51,490 --> 00:56:53,000 They were just going to invite people 1275 00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:55,370 from the sociology department to come in 1276 00:56:55,370 --> 00:56:58,380 and listen to the actual experience 1277 00:56:58,380 --> 00:57:01,340 of LGBT BYU students. 1278 00:57:01,340 --> 00:57:04,220 They made some fliers to help advertise it. 1279 00:57:04,220 --> 00:57:05,550 Basically, it just said, 1280 00:57:05,550 --> 00:57:08,590 "Everything you ever wanted to know 1281 00:57:08,590 --> 00:57:13,520 about gay BYU students but were too afraid to ask." 1282 00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:15,020 It blew up. 1283 00:57:15,020 --> 00:57:18,730 They had a Facebook invite and the word just got out. 1284 00:57:18,730 --> 00:57:20,650 It was huge. 1285 00:57:20,650 --> 00:57:24,190 Every seat in this room was filled. 1286 00:57:24,190 --> 00:57:28,320 The people were sitting in between the seats, 1287 00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:30,200 everywhere they were standing around, 1288 00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:33,200 and there was a line out both doors 1289 00:57:33,200 --> 00:57:36,750 and the doors behind it, everybody trying to cram in. 1290 00:57:36,750 --> 00:57:40,670 In the end, somewhere between 500 and 600 people 1291 00:57:40,670 --> 00:57:42,670 came to this panel. 1292 00:57:42,670 --> 00:57:45,260 And it was really the first of its kind. 1293 00:57:45,260 --> 00:57:47,090 There had been such a strong taboo 1294 00:57:47,090 --> 00:57:51,510 against people speaking out about their sexuality. 1295 00:57:51,510 --> 00:57:54,560 The fact that they had two gay men, 1296 00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:57,940 a bisexual man, and a lesbian woman 1297 00:57:57,940 --> 00:58:01,400 all sitting together and just talking 1298 00:58:01,400 --> 00:58:06,490 about their own experiences was really unprecedented. 1299 00:58:06,490 --> 00:58:09,320 I'm kind of nervous there's, um-- 1300 00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:11,070 they're going to announce it soon, 1301 00:58:11,070 --> 00:58:14,490 but BYU is doing an LGBT panel 1302 00:58:14,490 --> 00:58:16,410 on March 15th. 1303 00:58:16,410 --> 00:58:18,960 And so--no, you haven't heard about it. 1304 00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:20,960 It's, oh, I'm so excited. 1305 00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:22,420 I'm going to be one of the panelists 1306 00:58:22,420 --> 00:58:23,500 along with a few others. 1307 00:58:23,500 --> 00:58:25,460 This is like Working Group people, 1308 00:58:25,460 --> 00:58:27,090 so I think I might be the only one 1309 00:58:27,090 --> 00:58:29,010 from USGA on there. 1310 00:58:29,010 --> 00:58:32,260 I think a lot of people will probably go to this. 1311 00:58:32,260 --> 00:58:36,720 It's gonna be Thursday, March 15th at 11 and at 7, 1312 00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:39,640 so it's gonna take the place of USGA on that Thursday. 1313 00:58:39,640 --> 00:58:41,060 Every time I think about it, 1314 00:58:41,060 --> 00:58:43,230 my gut, like, flips over, 1315 00:58:43,230 --> 00:58:46,530 because I don't want to come out as trans 1316 00:58:46,530 --> 00:58:48,940 to a bunch of people. 1317 00:58:48,940 --> 00:58:52,280 Somebody needs to come out as trans at some point 1318 00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:55,080 for people to get to know-- so that it can be safe 1319 00:58:55,080 --> 00:58:56,990 for people to come out in the first place, 1320 00:58:56,990 --> 00:58:58,870 there has to be someone. 1321 00:58:58,870 --> 00:59:00,830 I didn't know I was-- that they were thinking 1322 00:59:00,830 --> 00:59:02,710 of putting me on it, and then Liza was like, 1323 00:59:02,710 --> 00:59:04,540 "Yeah, I think we're gonna have you on it, Gabe." 1324 00:59:04,540 --> 00:59:07,000 And I was like, "Oh, I'm the invited heathen," 1325 00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:08,550 or something, you know. 1326 00:59:08,550 --> 00:59:11,180 I'm acting, right, on my transness, 1327 00:59:11,180 --> 00:59:12,970 and so that kind of automatically puts me 1328 00:59:12,970 --> 00:59:14,760 at a certain heathen status. 1329 00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:16,260 You know, if we want to use that word, 1330 00:59:16,260 --> 00:59:17,640 I know it's kind of ridiculous, 1331 00:59:17,640 --> 00:59:19,310 but it makes me laugh. 1332 00:59:19,310 --> 00:59:21,270 I'd been thinking, last night as I was going to bed, 1333 00:59:21,270 --> 00:59:23,810 I was thinking of, you know, 1334 00:59:23,810 --> 00:59:25,520 maybe things that I shouldn't say 1335 00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:27,440 in front of an audience at BYU 1336 00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:30,150 where it's, like, kind of BYU approved, sort of. 1337 00:59:30,150 --> 00:59:32,150 I'm trying to figure out where the line is 1338 00:59:32,150 --> 00:59:34,530 so that I can go up to that line, you know? 1339 00:59:34,530 --> 00:59:38,740 And not end up being not dishonest, 1340 00:59:38,740 --> 00:59:47,000 but I want to be as forthcoming and as honest and clear... 1341 00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:49,300 I don't like that thing where we go on panels 1342 00:59:49,300 --> 00:59:51,510 and we don't really tell the kids what's up, 1343 00:59:51,510 --> 00:59:52,930 or the students, they're not kids. 1344 00:59:52,930 --> 00:59:55,010 But I also don't want to-- 1345 00:59:55,010 --> 00:59:59,060 I don't want to ruin it if they're like, 1346 00:59:59,060 --> 01:00:01,680 "That one kid went way too far! 1347 01:00:01,680 --> 01:00:04,400 We're never doing this again!" 1348 01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:06,020 I'm gonna have to talk to a few people 1349 01:00:06,020 --> 01:00:08,150 and figure out what that line is 1350 01:00:08,150 --> 01:00:11,740 so that I can be as honest as I can 1351 01:00:11,740 --> 01:00:14,950 without crossing any lines and upsetting people. 1352 01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:17,870 This is the first event on campus 1353 01:00:17,870 --> 01:00:20,490 sponsored by the BYU Student Association 1354 01:00:20,490 --> 01:00:23,080 where LGBT students and faculty members 1355 01:00:23,080 --> 01:00:25,420 can openly discuss what it's like 1356 01:00:25,420 --> 01:00:26,960 to be gay at BYU. 1357 01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:28,380 At Brigham Young University, 1358 01:00:28,380 --> 01:00:31,510 students actively seek marriage and having a family, 1359 01:00:31,510 --> 01:00:34,380 but for students at the LDS Church-owned university 1360 01:00:34,380 --> 01:00:38,760 who identify as LGBTQ, the mold doesn't fit them. 1361 01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:41,310 The problem is that people are dying at BYU. 1362 01:00:41,310 --> 01:00:43,640 And when people say really homophobic 1363 01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:45,190 and transphobic things, 1364 01:00:45,190 --> 01:00:47,520 we should confront that if we're able. 1365 01:00:47,520 --> 01:00:49,690 Student Brynn Adams says the campus culture 1366 01:00:49,690 --> 01:00:52,610 is becoming more inclusive, but not fast enough. 1367 01:00:52,610 --> 01:00:54,030 I'm transferring at the end of this semester 1368 01:00:54,030 --> 01:00:57,570 because, at this point, that conflict is too great. 1369 01:00:57,570 --> 01:01:01,330 There are lots of LGBTQ and SSA students here on campus 1370 01:01:01,330 --> 01:01:02,870 and that it's not us versus them. 1371 01:01:02,870 --> 01:01:03,950 Like, we are here. 1372 01:01:03,950 --> 01:01:06,250 We are part of the "us." 1373 01:01:06,250 --> 01:01:08,170 A second forum will be held tonight 1374 01:01:08,170 --> 01:01:11,630 at the Varsity Theater here on campus at 7PM. 1375 01:01:11,630 --> 01:01:13,710 (mixed chatter) 1376 01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:19,300 Well, I'm about to go into the second session of our panel 1377 01:01:19,300 --> 01:01:24,350 on LGBTQ--our LGBTQ and SSA panel at BYU. 1378 01:01:24,350 --> 01:01:27,520 The first one was at 11 in the JKB, 1379 01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:29,360 so just over there, and it was full. 1380 01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:32,230 Like the room, there are people sitting in the front, 1381 01:01:32,230 --> 01:01:35,490 standing on the sides, and the overflow was full, too. 1382 01:01:35,490 --> 01:01:37,530 It was great! 1383 01:01:37,530 --> 01:01:39,160 I was super nervous going up to it, 1384 01:01:39,160 --> 01:01:41,530 and so when I was there, I was, like, walking all around 1385 01:01:41,530 --> 01:01:43,990 and just not even sure what to do with myself and stuff, 1386 01:01:43,990 --> 01:01:47,710 but once we got started and Kate made them all laugh. 1387 01:01:47,710 --> 01:01:49,080 And you know, and then I'm like, 1388 01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:50,670 these people are chill and cool, 1389 01:01:50,670 --> 01:01:52,840 and then I felt a little better. 1390 01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:55,670 Best case scenario, hopefully conversations. 1391 01:01:55,670 --> 01:01:57,760 That's what I hope people are doing 1392 01:01:57,760 --> 01:01:59,890 is just talking like, "Hey, did you go to the panel? 1393 01:01:59,890 --> 01:02:01,680 What did you think? 1394 01:02:01,680 --> 01:02:02,890 What did you think of this person 1395 01:02:02,890 --> 01:02:04,180 and their responses? 1396 01:02:04,180 --> 01:02:05,930 Isn't that interesting?" 1397 01:02:05,930 --> 01:02:08,190 And I want people to hear that, 1398 01:02:08,190 --> 01:02:10,060 that there is conversation happening 1399 01:02:10,060 --> 01:02:11,690 and that it's okay to talk about. 1400 01:02:11,690 --> 01:02:13,690 One guy in particular who just came up to me 1401 01:02:13,690 --> 01:02:15,110 and said, "Thank you so much 1402 01:02:15,110 --> 01:02:18,650 for being willing to share that." 1403 01:02:18,650 --> 01:02:21,280 He identified himself as a member of the community, 1404 01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:23,700 and said, you know, 1405 01:02:23,700 --> 01:02:26,290 "I have never understood trans things, 1406 01:02:26,290 --> 01:02:27,370 and I never thought I would, 1407 01:02:27,370 --> 01:02:28,910 and I always kind of thought it wasn't a-- 1408 01:02:28,910 --> 01:02:30,170 you know, wasn't really--" 1409 01:02:30,170 --> 01:02:31,170 I don't know, that's at least-- 1410 01:02:31,170 --> 01:02:32,420 he didn't say exactly that, 1411 01:02:32,420 --> 01:02:34,670 but that was the feeling that I got, 1412 01:02:34,670 --> 01:02:36,380 and then he was emotional 1413 01:02:36,380 --> 01:02:37,510 and there were tears in his eyes, 1414 01:02:37,510 --> 01:02:40,090 and I was crying, too, you know. 1415 01:02:40,090 --> 01:02:41,470 It was cool to see that 1416 01:02:41,470 --> 01:02:43,470 even if everybody hated me after that, 1417 01:02:43,470 --> 01:02:45,140 if that one person felt touched, 1418 01:02:45,140 --> 01:02:48,230 you know, it is worth it somehow. 1419 01:02:48,230 --> 01:02:58,150 ♪ 1420 01:03:08,120 --> 01:03:10,250 (mixed chatter) 1421 01:03:10,250 --> 01:03:14,080 ♪ 1422 01:03:14,080 --> 01:03:17,500 I feel a little bit weird 1423 01:03:17,500 --> 01:03:21,300 and nervous about moving on in general. 1424 01:03:21,300 --> 01:03:24,720 So much of my identity has been built up 1425 01:03:24,720 --> 01:03:30,020 in being a gay Mormon at BYU. 1426 01:03:30,020 --> 01:03:32,980 That's really where all of my social circles were. 1427 01:03:32,980 --> 01:03:37,400 That's where most of my advocacy came from. 1428 01:03:37,400 --> 01:03:39,110 It's, you know... 1429 01:03:39,110 --> 01:03:42,400 -There he is! -Being queer 1430 01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:45,410 was what made me me, 1431 01:03:45,410 --> 01:03:48,200 because it had to be. 1432 01:03:48,200 --> 01:03:51,370 I had to make it a big deal here. 1433 01:03:51,370 --> 01:03:52,500 And now I'm moving to a place 1434 01:03:52,500 --> 01:03:56,130 where it doesn't have to be a big deal. 1435 01:03:56,130 --> 01:04:00,760 And so that's gonna be weird for me. 1436 01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:02,720 James David Goates. 1437 01:04:02,720 --> 01:04:11,770 ♪ 1438 01:04:11,770 --> 01:04:15,310 I am worlds removed from who I was 1439 01:04:15,310 --> 01:04:16,440 when I first came to BYU, 1440 01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:18,520 'cause I feel like a lot of the experiences 1441 01:04:18,520 --> 01:04:21,860 that shaped me at BYU were, like, awful things 1442 01:04:21,860 --> 01:04:23,530 that I went through that had to teach me 1443 01:04:23,530 --> 01:04:28,160 that changing myself for someone wasn't gonna work out. 1444 01:04:28,160 --> 01:04:33,830 And so to now be in a place where my family 1445 01:04:33,830 --> 01:04:36,330 isn't necessarily in support of my relationship, 1446 01:04:36,330 --> 01:04:40,340 but they've met my girlfriend and they haven't cut me off, 1447 01:04:40,340 --> 01:04:41,340 like I still talk to them. 1448 01:04:41,340 --> 01:04:43,220 I talk to my mom as much as I used to 1449 01:04:43,220 --> 01:04:44,760 and it's still normal conversation. 1450 01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:48,180 They know that I am in the process 1451 01:04:48,180 --> 01:04:50,140 of leaving the Church and joining another. 1452 01:04:50,140 --> 01:04:51,850 They are not excited about any of that, 1453 01:04:51,850 --> 01:04:53,100 but I couldn't ask that from them anyway. 1454 01:04:53,100 --> 01:04:56,480 They're humans and they-- 1455 01:04:56,480 --> 01:04:57,900 I'm leaving something that they love 1456 01:04:57,900 --> 01:04:59,610 and that's really, really hard. 1457 01:04:59,610 --> 01:05:01,530 But that we're able to have a conversation 1458 01:05:01,530 --> 01:05:02,900 and not just yell at each other 1459 01:05:02,900 --> 01:05:04,110 from opposite sides of the table 1460 01:05:04,110 --> 01:05:06,610 and then walk away and never want to see each other again. 1461 01:05:06,610 --> 01:05:09,030 We still have a relationship. 1462 01:05:09,030 --> 01:05:10,410 Through all these changes that I've been through, 1463 01:05:10,410 --> 01:05:12,370 through being honest with myself 1464 01:05:12,370 --> 01:05:14,410 that I still have a relationship with my family, 1465 01:05:14,410 --> 01:05:17,250 I can be gay and be a college grad 1466 01:05:17,250 --> 01:05:20,340 and be successful and have a family that loves me. 1467 01:05:20,340 --> 01:05:22,460 That I have the support of my sisters, 1468 01:05:22,460 --> 01:05:26,010 the love of my parents 1469 01:05:26,010 --> 01:05:28,050 is crazy to me. 1470 01:05:28,050 --> 01:05:30,470 It's not something I ever thought I could have. 1471 01:05:30,470 --> 01:05:40,270 ♪ 1472 01:05:41,320 --> 01:05:43,480 (indistinct conversation) 1473 01:05:44,360 --> 01:05:45,530 Yeah. 1474 01:05:50,700 --> 01:05:52,080 Why are you leaving BYU? 1475 01:05:52,080 --> 01:05:53,450 Why did you transfer? 1476 01:05:53,450 --> 01:05:55,330 Because I would have died if I stayed. 1477 01:05:55,330 --> 01:05:58,460 I would have spent every bit of life force that I had 1478 01:05:58,460 --> 01:06:01,710 trying to change everything and save everyone, 1479 01:06:01,710 --> 01:06:03,800 gay and other minorities, 1480 01:06:03,800 --> 01:06:08,380 and I would have completely exhausted myself. 1481 01:06:08,380 --> 01:06:10,140 I would have ended up killing myself. 1482 01:06:10,140 --> 01:06:11,600 I just know that. 1483 01:06:11,600 --> 01:06:13,560 I didn't have the energy to fight them 1484 01:06:13,560 --> 01:06:16,140 every single moment of every single day like that. 1485 01:06:16,140 --> 01:06:20,150 But really, in a year, BYU changed me so much. 1486 01:06:20,150 --> 01:06:21,690 I am not the person I was. 1487 01:06:21,690 --> 01:06:23,020 And in some ways, I'm sure I'm better 1488 01:06:23,020 --> 01:06:25,110 and stronger and whatever, but like, 1489 01:06:25,110 --> 01:06:28,070 I'm also a lot more angry and a lot more jaded 1490 01:06:28,070 --> 01:06:29,610 and a lot more bitter, 1491 01:06:29,610 --> 01:06:32,950 and that's not who I ever wanted to be. 1492 01:06:32,950 --> 01:06:34,910 And in order to keep myself alive, 1493 01:06:34,910 --> 01:06:36,580 I had to become those things. 1494 01:06:36,580 --> 01:06:39,210 And if I had stayed another two or three years 1495 01:06:39,210 --> 01:06:42,710 or whatever it took to get my degree, 1496 01:06:42,710 --> 01:06:45,340 if I had stayed alive during that time, 1497 01:06:45,340 --> 01:06:50,010 I would've been a very dark, angry person 1498 01:06:50,010 --> 01:06:52,340 in order to have stayed alive, 1499 01:06:52,340 --> 01:06:53,970 and that's not fair. 1500 01:07:01,400 --> 01:07:05,900 I think transferring would be very good for me. 1501 01:07:05,900 --> 01:07:10,860 I've looked into it, and it's not going to work out. 1502 01:07:10,860 --> 01:07:14,200 Like I kind of like-- I like Provo, you know? 1503 01:07:14,200 --> 01:07:15,580 I really do. 1504 01:07:15,580 --> 01:07:16,990 It's a nice town, 1505 01:07:16,990 --> 01:07:18,700 it's got a mountain right next door 1506 01:07:18,700 --> 01:07:21,040 I can go running in, I like Center Street. 1507 01:07:21,040 --> 01:07:24,540 People can laugh at me, but I like it here. 1508 01:07:24,540 --> 01:07:27,840 Just take off that square that's BYU and throw it out, 1509 01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:30,550 and Provo would be great, you know? 1510 01:07:30,550 --> 01:07:33,720 And that sounds pretty harsh. 1511 01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:36,720 BYU is my school, it's where I'm getting my education. 1512 01:07:36,720 --> 01:07:39,390 I have a lot of people I love there, 1513 01:07:39,390 --> 01:07:44,230 but it's also-- I think I'm starting 1514 01:07:44,230 --> 01:07:46,570 to get to the point where being on campus, 1515 01:07:46,570 --> 01:07:50,610 just being on campus, even when I'm not in classes, 1516 01:07:50,610 --> 01:07:55,070 I feel different, like I don't like it there anymore. 1517 01:07:55,070 --> 01:07:58,240 It's becoming the memory of bad times, 1518 01:07:58,240 --> 01:08:00,790 and I think I'm starting to have a negative association 1519 01:08:00,790 --> 01:08:03,120 with just campus in general. 1520 01:08:11,670 --> 01:08:13,550 I've sort of had this identity 1521 01:08:13,550 --> 01:08:17,350 of the gay Mormon who's been struggling 1522 01:08:17,350 --> 01:08:20,770 to sort of reconcile both parts of my identity. 1523 01:08:20,770 --> 01:08:23,770 And I feel like I've sort of reconciled them 1524 01:08:23,770 --> 01:08:25,940 as best I can at this point, 1525 01:08:25,940 --> 01:08:30,650 and I'm kind of looking forward to just letting go 1526 01:08:30,650 --> 01:08:33,700 of both of those things and just being me, 1527 01:08:33,700 --> 01:08:36,910 and just sort of living my life as a student, 1528 01:08:36,910 --> 01:08:39,410 as a Mormon, as a gay man, 1529 01:08:39,410 --> 01:08:42,040 and just not worrying about 1530 01:08:42,040 --> 01:08:43,460 the sort of conflicts between them 1531 01:08:43,460 --> 01:08:45,000 and just being. 1532 01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:47,250 I'm very much looking forward to that. 1533 01:09:01,260 --> 01:09:02,850 Thanks. 1534 01:09:02,850 --> 01:09:04,390 I'll talk to you--I mean, 1535 01:09:04,390 --> 01:09:06,310 who knows when I'll call you next week, 1536 01:09:06,310 --> 01:09:08,850 because I don't have classes anymore. 1537 01:09:08,850 --> 01:09:11,780 So it'll be a surprise. 1538 01:09:11,780 --> 01:09:14,030 Okay, I love you. 1539 01:09:14,030 --> 01:09:15,740 Yeah. Bye. 1540 01:09:21,450 --> 01:09:24,200 (sneezing) 1541 01:09:24,200 --> 01:09:25,620 Bless you! 1542 01:09:28,040 --> 01:09:34,760 I don't think the idea of a church school is bad. 1543 01:09:34,760 --> 01:09:38,180 I think you could have one that could work. 1544 01:09:38,180 --> 01:09:40,260 I feel like I would describe something 1545 01:09:40,260 --> 01:09:42,560 that wouldn't be BYU, 1546 01:09:42,560 --> 01:09:44,930 but it would have to be-- 1547 01:09:44,930 --> 01:09:48,350 and I'm saying this for not just LGBT people, 1548 01:09:48,350 --> 01:09:50,730 Honor Code has to go really fast. 1549 01:09:50,730 --> 01:09:53,480 And then maybe like a trans health program 1550 01:09:53,480 --> 01:09:54,780 like the U has. 1551 01:09:54,780 --> 01:09:56,070 I still can't get over that. 1552 01:09:56,070 --> 01:09:58,360 They have a trans health program. 1553 01:09:58,360 --> 01:10:00,530 Like, wha-- 1554 01:10:00,530 --> 01:10:01,870 They love their students! 1555 01:10:01,870 --> 01:10:05,040 That's the message I get. 1556 01:10:05,040 --> 01:10:06,370 I'm sure BYU does, too, 1557 01:10:06,370 --> 01:10:08,620 they just have a funny way of showing it. 1558 01:10:08,620 --> 01:10:11,500 And actually they don't love all their students. 1559 01:10:11,500 --> 01:10:14,800 They really don't, otherwise they wouldn't be doing this. 1560 01:10:14,800 --> 01:10:17,130 Everybody deserves to be at peace and free. 1561 01:10:17,130 --> 01:10:20,180 I don't know why BYU has taken it upon itself 1562 01:10:20,180 --> 01:10:24,310 to be the one that can take those away from people. 1563 01:10:24,310 --> 01:10:25,720 I just don't get it anymore. 1564 01:10:28,270 --> 01:10:32,520 For a long time, I thought that gay people 1565 01:10:32,520 --> 01:10:35,440 could go to BYU, 1566 01:10:35,440 --> 01:10:38,030 and that it just wasn't gonna work out for me. 1567 01:10:38,030 --> 01:10:39,110 I think I'm at the point right now 1568 01:10:39,110 --> 01:10:40,280 that I don't think any queer person 1569 01:10:40,280 --> 01:10:41,490 should be at BYU. 1570 01:10:41,490 --> 01:10:44,160 Like, I think as soon as they possibly can, 1571 01:10:44,160 --> 01:10:46,620 they should get out, and I'm sorry that 1572 01:10:46,620 --> 01:10:49,160 it's not an option for everyone to get out. 1573 01:10:49,160 --> 01:10:54,040 Like I want to be happy, I want to be able 1574 01:10:54,040 --> 01:10:58,130 to be fulfilled in all the ways that for so many years 1575 01:10:58,130 --> 01:11:00,050 I didn't think were going to be an option. 1576 01:11:00,050 --> 01:11:03,350 I thought I was-- my plan was to be 1577 01:11:03,350 --> 01:11:05,810 a really, really cool aunt and travel a lot 1578 01:11:05,810 --> 01:11:10,480 and just do my thing by myself 1579 01:11:10,480 --> 01:11:13,310 and be the example in all my wards 1580 01:11:13,310 --> 01:11:17,280 and be this faithful pillar, 1581 01:11:17,280 --> 01:11:19,860 and I don't want that. 1582 01:11:19,860 --> 01:11:23,110 I want to get married and have babies 1583 01:11:23,110 --> 01:11:25,120 and I want to do it all, 1584 01:11:25,120 --> 01:11:28,750 and now I'm gonna be able to on some level. 1585 01:11:28,750 --> 01:11:33,210 I want to never feel unsafe 1586 01:11:33,210 --> 01:11:36,340 like I did at BYU again. 1587 01:11:36,340 --> 01:11:38,510 (mixed chatter) 1588 01:11:52,850 --> 01:11:55,440 Hello, everyone! 1589 01:11:55,440 --> 01:11:59,360 Oh, come on, you knew that was coming! 1590 01:11:59,360 --> 01:12:01,400 I was recently informed-- 1591 01:12:01,400 --> 01:12:04,700 because once I graduated, I stopped going to the meetings. 1592 01:12:04,700 --> 01:12:08,740 More accurately, I was disinvited from the meetings. 1593 01:12:08,740 --> 01:12:11,330 Which I was okay with, because I'm graduated 1594 01:12:11,330 --> 01:12:13,290 and it's time to move on. 1595 01:12:13,290 --> 01:12:19,500 But what I'd heard was that the admins had come in 1596 01:12:19,500 --> 01:12:23,340 and essentially said, "It's not gonna happen. 1597 01:12:23,340 --> 01:12:26,600 An on-campus group is not gonna happen. 1598 01:12:26,600 --> 01:12:30,060 Not right now, not in the foreseeable future, 1599 01:12:30,060 --> 01:12:32,020 but eventually, maybe." 1600 01:12:32,020 --> 01:12:33,440 It is a very special night. 1601 01:12:33,440 --> 01:12:34,690 It's one of my favorite nights. 1602 01:12:34,690 --> 01:12:36,860 It is the testimony meeting, 1603 01:12:36,860 --> 01:12:39,730 and you'll get to hear from me in the very end, 1604 01:12:39,730 --> 01:12:42,320 but Liza is gonna explain how this event is gonna go. 1605 01:12:45,240 --> 01:12:49,580 I think this on-campus-- 1606 01:12:49,580 --> 01:12:52,500 I was gonna call it a failure, but I won't call it that. 1607 01:12:52,500 --> 01:12:53,910 Setback. 1608 01:12:53,910 --> 01:12:55,460 We'll call it a setback, 1609 01:12:55,460 --> 01:12:57,960 because if it was a failure, 1610 01:12:57,960 --> 01:13:00,550 that would mean that it would do worse, 1611 01:13:00,550 --> 01:13:02,510 but there is definitely progress that has been made 1612 01:13:02,510 --> 01:13:05,930 because of this on-campus thing. 1613 01:13:05,930 --> 01:13:08,970 That's, without a doubt in my mind, that is true, 1614 01:13:08,970 --> 01:13:13,980 that we have made more progress than we ever have before. 1615 01:13:13,980 --> 01:13:15,520 But it's very telling to me. 1616 01:13:15,520 --> 01:13:18,020 BYU doesn't want to take something 1617 01:13:18,020 --> 01:13:21,610 that LGBTQ people have built for themselves, 1618 01:13:21,610 --> 01:13:23,740 and instead they want to make something 1619 01:13:23,740 --> 01:13:25,700 and be the savior. 1620 01:13:26,950 --> 01:13:28,700 The Board of Trustees said, "No. 1621 01:13:28,700 --> 01:13:31,370 We're not, you're not authorized 1622 01:13:31,370 --> 01:13:34,250 to create an organization, a student organization 1623 01:13:34,250 --> 01:13:37,250 for LGBTQ students at BYU at this time." 1624 01:13:37,250 --> 01:13:40,710 I think Steve Sandberg and other administrators 1625 01:13:40,710 --> 01:13:43,800 still have a lot of hope that it will happen 1626 01:13:43,800 --> 01:13:46,840 sometime in the next year or two or something, 1627 01:13:46,840 --> 01:13:49,300 but there's no timetable for it. 1628 01:13:49,300 --> 01:13:53,430 I don't--it's almost like I don't care anymore. 1629 01:13:53,430 --> 01:13:55,310 I'm dead serious when I say 1630 01:13:55,310 --> 01:13:57,640 that nothing damaged my testimony of the Church 1631 01:13:57,640 --> 01:14:00,230 more than working with the administrators of BYU. 1632 01:14:00,230 --> 01:14:01,730 Nothing. Period. 1633 01:14:01,730 --> 01:14:06,320 I'm coming to you to ask for help. 1634 01:14:06,320 --> 01:14:08,860 You're in a position of power and authority. 1635 01:14:08,860 --> 01:14:11,570 I am hurting, and I'm not even hurting that bad, 1636 01:14:11,570 --> 01:14:13,830 but I am representing people and I'm coming to you 1637 01:14:13,830 --> 01:14:16,540 on behalf of people who are hurting real bad, 1638 01:14:16,540 --> 01:14:20,880 and you won't do anything. 1639 01:14:20,880 --> 01:14:22,460 Maybe it's really hard for you to do something, 1640 01:14:22,460 --> 01:14:24,300 maybe you don't have a lot of power to do anything, 1641 01:14:24,300 --> 01:14:29,720 but you could at least, like, close up all your things 1642 01:14:29,720 --> 01:14:31,800 and just sit and be like, "Tell me more. 1643 01:14:31,800 --> 01:14:33,640 I care about this deeply. 1644 01:14:33,640 --> 01:14:35,520 You're a student at this university that I work at, 1645 01:14:35,520 --> 01:14:38,690 I am in charge of students, and I care about you." 1646 01:14:38,690 --> 01:14:39,810 That didn't happen. 1647 01:14:41,560 --> 01:14:43,940 The students were definitely convinced, right? 1648 01:14:43,940 --> 01:14:45,730 And, I don't know, maybe this was their, 1649 01:14:45,730 --> 01:14:46,990 "Well, we're gonna make them 1650 01:14:46,990 --> 01:14:49,240 feel like they're going to do something about it, 1651 01:14:49,240 --> 01:14:52,240 but really we don't-- we're not ready for that." 1652 01:14:52,240 --> 01:14:53,620 And I'm sure whoever is out there 1653 01:14:53,620 --> 01:14:55,950 making these decisions probably doesn't hate 1654 01:14:55,950 --> 01:14:57,620 the LGBTQ community. 1655 01:14:57,620 --> 01:15:00,000 Hopefully doesn't hate us, but I don't know. 1656 01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:02,000 If they were here, if they were-- 1657 01:15:02,000 --> 01:15:06,880 if they really knew LGBTQ BYU students, 1658 01:15:06,880 --> 01:15:08,970 you know, I think they would realize 1659 01:15:08,970 --> 01:15:12,800 that what they're doing is traumatic. 1660 01:15:12,800 --> 01:15:15,350 Or what BYU has been doing for a long time 1661 01:15:15,350 --> 01:15:18,980 has been inhumane, I would say. 1662 01:15:21,440 --> 01:15:24,560 I was lucky to know about USGA from day one. 1663 01:15:24,560 --> 01:15:25,570 I wanted to fight for people that didn't know 1664 01:15:25,570 --> 01:15:28,530 that there was a family there for them. 1665 01:15:28,530 --> 01:15:29,780 So if we could get on campus, 1666 01:15:29,780 --> 01:15:31,780 so if we could have any notice 1667 01:15:31,780 --> 01:15:33,700 that we existed on campus at all, 1668 01:15:33,700 --> 01:15:35,030 then they would know that we were there, 1669 01:15:35,030 --> 01:15:36,830 that they weren't alone, that they had family. 1670 01:15:36,830 --> 01:15:38,660 They could come find a family with us. 1671 01:15:40,660 --> 01:15:44,250 BYU can be a good fit for LGBT students 1672 01:15:44,250 --> 01:15:46,290 if they know where to look. 1673 01:15:46,290 --> 01:15:50,340 If they don't, it's horribly lonely and dangerous. 1674 01:15:50,340 --> 01:15:57,010 But if you know where to find the sort of queer spaces 1675 01:15:57,010 --> 01:15:59,560 where you can get the sort of connection necessary, 1676 01:15:59,560 --> 01:16:02,060 it can be a very good place 1677 01:16:02,060 --> 01:16:06,110 for coming to terms with sexuality and faith. 1678 01:16:06,110 --> 01:16:08,530 I am not gonna say that BYU has been 1679 01:16:08,530 --> 01:16:10,860 only a negative experience, 1680 01:16:10,860 --> 01:16:13,150 it's just been a very negative experience 1681 01:16:13,150 --> 01:16:15,740 mixed with lots of positive things, like USGA. 1682 01:16:15,740 --> 01:16:18,990 Very positive thing in my life, I've made a lot of friends, 1683 01:16:18,990 --> 01:16:20,620 but the reality is that 1684 01:16:20,620 --> 01:16:22,620 I can make friends in other places. 1685 01:16:22,620 --> 01:16:25,460 Not to say that all of my friends are replaceable, 1686 01:16:25,460 --> 01:16:28,090 but like, if I went anywhere else, 1687 01:16:28,090 --> 01:16:29,380 I would've come away, I think, 1688 01:16:29,380 --> 01:16:31,590 with better mental health than I will from-- 1689 01:16:31,590 --> 01:16:37,220 I think I'll need to sincerely recover. 1690 01:16:37,220 --> 01:16:40,390 After BYU, I'm gonna need 1691 01:16:40,390 --> 01:16:43,980 to take some time and recover, 1692 01:16:43,980 --> 01:16:45,900 'cause it's--I mean, it's like a sickness 1693 01:16:45,900 --> 01:16:47,810 that's eating away at me. 1694 01:16:50,570 --> 01:16:52,490 Now from our president. 1695 01:16:52,490 --> 01:16:55,200 (laughing) 1696 01:16:55,200 --> 01:16:57,870 I had to write down all my thoughts. 1697 01:16:57,870 --> 01:17:03,000 So my first time going to USGA was in 2011. 1698 01:17:03,000 --> 01:17:04,250 And what I found there 1699 01:17:04,250 --> 01:17:08,130 was people who loved me as I was. 1700 01:17:08,130 --> 01:17:11,340 Didn't want me to change at all. 1701 01:17:11,340 --> 01:17:13,380 And so when I decided that it was right for me 1702 01:17:13,380 --> 01:17:16,720 to go on a mission, let me tell you, 1703 01:17:16,720 --> 01:17:18,220 My ward building has never seen 1704 01:17:18,220 --> 01:17:20,180 so many rainbows in its life. 1705 01:17:20,180 --> 01:17:21,680 (laughing) 1706 01:17:21,680 --> 01:17:28,610 I've never felt so loved as I have here at USGA. 1707 01:17:28,610 --> 01:17:30,980 'Cause I found a home. 1708 01:17:30,980 --> 01:17:32,360 There is the mentality of 1709 01:17:32,360 --> 01:17:35,030 even if you don't want to be with us, that's fine. 1710 01:17:35,030 --> 01:17:38,660 We will still be here for you when you do need us. 1711 01:17:40,240 --> 01:17:42,910 And really, throughout everything, 1712 01:17:42,910 --> 01:17:45,080 there's just this love. 1713 01:17:47,000 --> 01:17:49,630 And that was the spirit of USGA. 1714 01:17:51,340 --> 01:17:55,380 Come as you are, leave as you desire. 1715 01:17:55,380 --> 01:18:00,640 Come in whatever framework you're in, 1716 01:18:00,640 --> 01:18:04,020 whatever spirituality you are, 1717 01:18:04,020 --> 01:18:07,810 and leave on whatever path you want, 1718 01:18:07,810 --> 01:18:09,650 and that's what I needed. 1719 01:18:09,650 --> 01:18:11,610 I think that's what a lot of us have needed. 1720 01:18:11,610 --> 01:18:15,530 Now, I am done with BYU, 1721 01:18:15,530 --> 01:18:19,030 but I've seen a great change at BYU. 1722 01:18:19,030 --> 01:18:22,450 I've seen the fact that I couldn't have a panel 1723 01:18:22,450 --> 01:18:25,540 in a classroom 1724 01:18:25,540 --> 01:18:29,750 to we just held a forum 1725 01:18:29,750 --> 01:18:31,630 for the entire university. 1726 01:18:32,960 --> 01:18:35,210 (applause) 1727 01:18:35,210 --> 01:18:37,590 That's a lot. 1728 01:18:37,590 --> 01:18:41,010 And while that wasn't necessarily USGA's doing, 1729 01:18:41,010 --> 01:18:45,260 there's a big change at BYU. 1730 01:18:45,260 --> 01:18:49,810 However, we're not there yet. 1731 01:18:49,810 --> 01:18:56,690 We have come to just accept acceptance as the end goal. 1732 01:18:56,690 --> 01:18:58,530 We've learned to take a breadcrumb 1733 01:18:58,530 --> 01:19:01,240 and make a feast out of it. 1734 01:19:01,240 --> 01:19:06,450 But the fact is is that we deserve more. 1735 01:19:06,450 --> 01:19:08,450 We deserve so much more. 1736 01:19:08,450 --> 01:19:09,870 (snapping) 1737 01:19:09,870 --> 01:19:12,040 I'm gonna quote a prophet here: 1738 01:19:12,040 --> 01:19:13,630 P!nk. 1739 01:19:13,630 --> 01:19:15,840 (laughing and cheering) 1740 01:19:20,220 --> 01:19:22,550 She talks about the fact 1741 01:19:22,550 --> 01:19:25,970 that to want your share is not a sin. 1742 01:19:28,390 --> 01:19:30,440 It is not a sin 1743 01:19:30,440 --> 01:19:33,600 to demand nurturance for yourself. 1744 01:19:33,600 --> 01:19:36,360 From yourself and from other people. 1745 01:19:36,360 --> 01:19:39,530 Because the fact is is that here, we are a family. 1746 01:19:39,530 --> 01:19:42,110 Here, we are never alone. 1747 01:19:44,240 --> 01:19:47,490 My time as USGA president has been 1748 01:19:47,490 --> 01:19:52,540 the most fulfilling experience of my life. 1749 01:19:52,540 --> 01:19:54,460 I can walk forward. 1750 01:19:56,840 --> 01:20:00,840 I can look to a brighter future. 1751 01:20:00,840 --> 01:20:03,220 And I can be happy. 1752 01:20:03,220 --> 01:20:08,140 And so my plea with you is to continue that. 1753 01:20:08,140 --> 01:20:10,310 Let that spirit live on. 1754 01:20:11,850 --> 01:20:14,310 And please, 1755 01:20:14,310 --> 01:20:18,190 please do not settle for breadcrumbs 1756 01:20:18,190 --> 01:20:21,190 when you deserve so much more. 1757 01:20:23,030 --> 01:20:24,780 Thank you. 1758 01:20:24,780 --> 01:20:26,700 And I say these things in the name of Jesus Christ. 1759 01:20:26,700 --> 01:20:27,950 Amen. 1760 01:20:27,950 --> 01:20:30,120 (applause) 1761 01:20:33,870 --> 01:20:36,000 What I see is that there's always going to be 1762 01:20:36,000 --> 01:20:38,130 gay people at BYU. 1763 01:20:38,130 --> 01:20:40,670 They're always gonna be there, 1764 01:20:40,670 --> 01:20:42,670 they're always gonna be coming out. 1765 01:20:42,670 --> 01:20:45,050 They're not leaving ever. 1766 01:20:45,050 --> 01:20:46,550 You can't just take all the gay people 1767 01:20:46,550 --> 01:20:48,010 out of some population, 1768 01:20:48,010 --> 01:20:51,890 even if it's a homophobic church population, you know? 1769 01:20:51,890 --> 01:20:53,390 They're going to be there, 1770 01:20:53,390 --> 01:20:56,440 and so I think the need is not going away. 1771 01:20:56,440 --> 01:20:59,110 Even if all of USGA leaves, 1772 01:20:59,110 --> 01:21:00,480 well, there's people. 1773 01:21:00,480 --> 01:21:03,110 They'll start up something else even if it takes them time. 1774 01:21:03,110 --> 01:21:05,070 And we're not leaving. 1775 01:21:05,070 --> 01:21:07,200 Even if sometimes we're smaller, 1776 01:21:07,200 --> 01:21:09,330 then I think the need is great enough 1777 01:21:09,330 --> 01:21:11,830 that it holds us together, you know? 1778 01:21:11,830 --> 01:21:13,910 I guess I'm inclined to trust those 1779 01:21:13,910 --> 01:21:16,830 that will come later. 1780 01:21:16,830 --> 01:21:19,880 I'm still kind of jaded by the administration 1781 01:21:19,880 --> 01:21:21,550 and the people in charge. 1782 01:21:21,550 --> 01:21:23,630 Like, if it was up to BYU, 1783 01:21:23,630 --> 01:21:26,260 there wouldn't be a place for me at BYU. 1784 01:21:26,260 --> 01:21:29,720 But because some of the students there cared enough, 1785 01:21:29,720 --> 01:21:33,520 they made themselves a place against the administration. 1786 01:21:33,520 --> 01:21:37,350 They carved it out of stone and moved boulders 1787 01:21:37,350 --> 01:21:38,980 to make this little place 1788 01:21:38,980 --> 01:21:41,650 that I was able to feel safe at BYU. 1789 01:21:41,650 --> 01:21:51,660 ♪ 1790 01:21:51,660 --> 01:21:53,830 I'm proud of all that I did do. 1791 01:21:55,250 --> 01:21:56,910 But I wish I could've done more. 1792 01:21:56,910 --> 01:22:05,010 ♪ 1793 01:22:05,010 --> 01:22:07,180 (indistinct chatter) 1794 01:22:07,180 --> 01:22:14,270 ♪ 1795 01:22:14,270 --> 01:22:16,350 The more we speak 1796 01:22:16,350 --> 01:22:19,980 and the more we share our stories, our lives, 1797 01:22:19,980 --> 01:22:22,230 and are vulnerable like that, 1798 01:22:22,230 --> 01:22:23,900 I think that that is ultimately 1799 01:22:23,900 --> 01:22:27,610 what is going to bring about change. 1800 01:22:27,610 --> 01:22:29,530 One of the things I do every year 1801 01:22:29,530 --> 01:22:32,490 is that I teach Homer's Iliad, 1802 01:22:32,490 --> 01:22:36,290 which starts with Achilles becoming infuriated 1803 01:22:36,290 --> 01:22:38,960 at his commanding officer, Agamemnon, 1804 01:22:38,960 --> 01:22:40,290 refusing to fight, 1805 01:22:40,290 --> 01:22:42,130 eventually losing one of the people 1806 01:22:42,130 --> 01:22:43,590 he cares about the most. 1807 01:22:43,590 --> 01:22:46,010 Going on a rampage, killing lots of people, 1808 01:22:46,010 --> 01:22:49,590 but what finally gets Achilles to give up his rage, 1809 01:22:49,590 --> 01:22:52,640 it's not gifts, it's not persuasion or logic, 1810 01:22:52,640 --> 01:22:55,100 it's not pressure. 1811 01:22:55,100 --> 01:22:57,140 What finally makes him give it up 1812 01:22:57,140 --> 01:22:59,770 is when the enemy king comes 1813 01:22:59,770 --> 01:23:03,190 and sits down in front of Achilles 1814 01:23:03,190 --> 01:23:05,980 and supplicates him for the body of his son 1815 01:23:05,980 --> 01:23:07,320 whom Achilles has killed, 1816 01:23:07,320 --> 01:23:09,610 and he says, "I have done 1817 01:23:09,610 --> 01:23:11,700 what no other man has done before. 1818 01:23:11,700 --> 01:23:13,070 I have kissed the hand 1819 01:23:13,070 --> 01:23:15,450 of the man who has killed my son." 1820 01:23:15,450 --> 01:23:17,410 They both cry. 1821 01:23:17,410 --> 01:23:21,620 And it's that moment of empathic connection, 1822 01:23:21,620 --> 01:23:24,460 a vulnerability where finally Achilles 1823 01:23:24,460 --> 01:23:27,590 is able to put off that rage and create an armistice 1824 01:23:27,590 --> 01:23:32,260 where the two sides can mourn for their dead. 1825 01:23:32,260 --> 01:23:34,640 And I think that that's-- 1826 01:23:34,640 --> 01:23:37,430 that lesson is extremely important 1827 01:23:37,430 --> 01:23:43,400 in how people end up changing. 1828 01:23:43,400 --> 01:23:45,060 Because it's not going to come 1829 01:23:45,060 --> 01:23:47,900 through well-reasoned, logical arguments, 1830 01:23:47,900 --> 01:23:49,360 because I've seen those, 1831 01:23:49,360 --> 01:23:50,860 I've seen them sent to the Church, 1832 01:23:50,860 --> 01:23:52,360 and that hasn't changed. 1833 01:23:52,360 --> 01:23:54,820 And I've seen the Church also give reasonable arguments 1834 01:23:54,820 --> 01:23:57,790 to gay people, and they haven't changed. 1835 01:23:57,790 --> 01:24:02,290 I've seen shame on both sides. 1836 01:24:02,290 --> 01:24:04,790 I've seen guilt, trying to guilt the other party 1837 01:24:04,790 --> 01:24:07,380 into doing what they want. 1838 01:24:07,380 --> 01:24:09,340 That hasn't worked. 1839 01:24:09,340 --> 01:24:12,260 The times that I've seen real change come about, 1840 01:24:12,260 --> 01:24:14,550 it's because two people sat down 1841 01:24:14,550 --> 01:24:16,850 and told each other their stories 1842 01:24:16,850 --> 01:24:20,020 and developed a personal relationship. 1843 01:24:20,020 --> 01:24:22,310 And I think if there's ever going to be any change 1844 01:24:22,310 --> 01:24:25,310 in our society, in our Mormon community, 1845 01:24:25,310 --> 01:24:28,110 in our Gospel, and at BYU, 1846 01:24:28,110 --> 01:24:31,150 it's going to be because two people sat down 1847 01:24:31,150 --> 01:24:33,320 and shared their stories. 1848 01:24:33,320 --> 01:24:38,030 ♪ 1849 01:24:38,030 --> 01:24:40,870 (mixed chanting) 1850 01:24:40,870 --> 01:24:43,000 We're here, we're queer! 1851 01:24:43,000 --> 01:24:45,040 We belong at BYU! 1852 01:24:45,040 --> 01:24:46,880 Okay, let's keep it moving. 1853 01:24:46,880 --> 01:24:49,590 (shouting) 1854 01:24:49,590 --> 01:24:51,920 Jesus said gay rights! 1855 01:24:51,920 --> 01:24:53,760 I like your sign! 1856 01:24:53,760 --> 01:24:55,050 We're queer! 1857 01:24:55,050 --> 01:24:57,140 We belong at BYU! 1858 01:24:57,140 --> 01:24:59,470 (mixed chanting) 1859 01:25:02,310 --> 01:25:04,190 We're here, we're queer! 1860 01:25:04,190 --> 01:25:06,020 We belong at BYU! 1861 01:25:06,020 --> 01:25:08,940 We're here, we're queer! 1862 01:25:08,940 --> 01:25:11,190 (mixed chatter) 1863 01:25:15,200 --> 01:25:19,240 Love, not hate, makes BYU great. 1864 01:25:19,240 --> 01:25:23,540 Love, not hate, what makes BYU great. 1865 01:25:29,250 --> 01:25:31,300 We're here, we're queer! 1866 01:25:31,300 --> 01:25:33,090 We belong at BYU! 1867 01:25:33,090 --> 01:25:35,220 We're here, we're queer! 1868 01:25:35,220 --> 01:25:37,260 We belong at BYU! 1869 01:25:37,260 --> 01:25:39,220 We're here, we're queer! 1870 01:25:39,220 --> 01:25:40,970 We belong at BYU! 1871 01:25:40,970 --> 01:25:43,930 We're here, we're queer! 1872 01:25:43,930 --> 01:25:47,940 Love, not hate, makes BYU great! 1873 01:25:47,940 --> 01:25:52,110 Love, not hate, what makes BYU great! 1874 01:25:52,110 --> 01:25:54,900 (chanting continues) 1875 01:26:02,410 --> 01:26:11,750 ♪ Don't wash your hands of me ♪ 1876 01:26:13,000 --> 01:26:22,300 ♪ 'Cause I'll be very clear ♪ 1877 01:26:22,300 --> 01:26:25,060 ♪ 1878 01:26:25,060 --> 01:26:33,980 ♪ Don't pretend you don't see me ♪ 1879 01:26:35,440 --> 01:26:45,370 ♪ 'Cause I'll be in your ear ♪ 1880 01:26:46,410 --> 01:26:56,340 ♪ 142411

Can't find what you're looking for?
Get subtitles in any language from opensubtitles.com, and translate them here.