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(electronic music)
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I label myself as a bisexual woman.
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I label myself as a trans female.
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I picture myself as a heterosexual female.
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What, in sexual orientation?
6
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I never really liked labels,
but I guess you can say
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I guess I fall within
the lines of bisexual.
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If I had to, I would say bisexual.
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I'm attracted mostly to men though.
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Pansexual, queer.
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I label myself as a
spiritual, grounded person
12
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that like just, I don't
know, I guess that's it.
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You know, I'm gay, and.
14
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(dramatic music)
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I'm technically
straight, but my boyfriend,
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he's transgendered, so, I
just have to accept that.
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How do I label myself?
18
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I identify as as straight female,
19
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but I'd say that I'm blessed to be
20
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a gay man born in a female body.
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So, one of the lucky ones.
22
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I'm a gay man, yeah.
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I guess I label myself
as a straight man.
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At the base of like
your human existence,
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I think that everyone is pansexual.
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I feel like you can't really
help who you're attracted to.
27
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And I think you should just embrace that.
28
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(techno music)
29
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It's so interesting to watch the outrage
30
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at how radical people
are, and the insistence
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on labels and names and rights,
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and where we fit in the world.
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It makes sense just to
accept people the way they are.
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And not to try to find a label for them.
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Labels have become exceedingly
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important for my generation.
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When a lot of queer
identities were labeled,
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it was society labeling us.
39
00:02:06,330 --> 00:02:08,930
And now, we're claiming
ownership of the language
40
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we use to differentiate
between gender identity
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and biological sex, and
how those things intersect.
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Except of friends who I'd known before,
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I never felt the need to
declare myself as anything.
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I'm transgender gender-nonconforming.
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And I have a female sort of mind.
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The traditional female,
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so I have an attraction for straight men.
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That's all I've ever dated.
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I'm not happy about labels.
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I mean, I accept them.
51
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I accept however you
want to call yourself.
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I would certainly call
myself gay now, lesbian.
53
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But I was not always,
even though I was always
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attracted to women, I was
very much attracted to men.
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I didn't change teams till I was 30.
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And I resisted labeling myself
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for a long time, especially publicly.
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I love my label. (laughs)
59
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I am a lesbian, I am a gold star lesbian.
60
00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:05,010
I personally have no problem with labels,
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00:03:05,010 --> 00:03:06,140
if you want to give them to yourself.
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I have a problem with other
people labeling other people.
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But especially as long as other people use
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my label against me, then
I will use it proudly.
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I've always been a lesbian.
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And I'm like on the
spectrum way, way, there.
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There's nothing in the middle.
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I'm on, you know, a
little bit more towards
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the spectrum of not wanting a label.
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I've always felt that way about,
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why should we need to be labeled?
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But that's in a perfect world.
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I am Tobly McSmith, I
identify as a trans male.
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Again, okay.
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Should I?
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Should I turn around, like, oh, hey?
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You want me to do it again?
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Mark.
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You know, I probably realized
I was attracted to women
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before I realized that I
really was innerly male.
81
00:03:55,290 --> 00:03:57,850
You know, I think that
was the first feeling.
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As a kid I was always
misgendered and seen as male.
83
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And when that happened, I always thought
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I was kind of getting caught,
and so it was exciting.
85
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But also I felt really guilty.
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There's all these
possibilities when you're young,
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and you're like, I could be this,
88
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I could be that, I could be anything.
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And then as you get to know yourself more,
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and trust yourself more, and go, actually,
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this is the truth about
me, I need to do this.
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I want this.
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I like this, actually.
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And so now, there's been this shift
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where gender's on the
table, and people understand
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that there are more than just
two options, male and female.
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We're all on the spectrum.
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00:04:39,340 --> 00:04:43,050
And to think that the spectrum
just is a three part spectrum
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or a two part spectrum is a misnomer.
100
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We're fluid, we bounce back and forth.
101
00:04:48,670 --> 00:04:51,380
I don't like labels, because
we can put people in a box.
102
00:04:51,380 --> 00:04:54,100
It means we no longer
need to listen to them,
103
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because they are
transgender, or they are gay,
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00:04:57,140 --> 00:04:59,730
they are conservative, they're
liberal, they're progressive,
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whatever word you want to toss out there.
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00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:02,690
There are all these different labels
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that people try to fit
people in a category.
108
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And we're learning as a globe
that we are not identifiable.
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We're not puttable in that category.
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And sometimes people who fall between
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fall through those cracks,
and they can't find
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the identity that they desire.
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When you try to tell someone that they
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are something that they're
not, it can be so damaging.
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People get depressed, people get suicidal.
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So I guess when you think about kids
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and teens and young adults,
they are so fluid in everything.
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And they've been exposed to
so much already in their life
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that they're not really fazed by it all.
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My daughter and her group of friends,
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you know, I think she
has as many gay, lesbian,
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trans friends as she
does straight friends.
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And I don't even think many of her
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generation identify as straight.
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I don't really love
labels all that much.
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I just love people.
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00:06:02,370 --> 00:06:04,340
I'm more of just a people person.
128
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I happen to love women, that's who I am.
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Well, I love a woman.
130
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I don't love multiple women.
131
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I love multiple women, but in a different.
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I love her.
133
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Okay, let's start over.
134
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It's okay honey, I get it.
135
00:06:18,740 --> 00:06:20,160
It's all right, that's okay.
136
00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:21,050
But I just, you know, I think labels
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can create silos for people.
138
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And you know, we're who we are.
139
00:06:25,060 --> 00:06:27,910
I love you if you're
transgender or if you're.
140
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I just call myself gay, you know.
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You can call me a lesbian,
you can call me gay.
142
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I don't care, I'm just
Madonna, and I love Robin.
143
00:06:34,270 --> 00:06:37,890
And for me, if a label
works for you to use,
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then it's great.
145
00:06:39,850 --> 00:06:42,630
But I just don't like it all that much.
146
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I get asked both from
within the LGBT community,
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and outside the LGBT community,
my sexual orientation.
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Which really is nobody's
business but my own.
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I understand the confusion.
150
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I have a great business
partner, who I love dearly.
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I just have no, I've never
had that sexual desire.
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I'm 100% gay.
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I've never been with a woman.
154
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Yeah, it's just never happened.
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I think when I was really
young, as a teenager,
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I was too shy to even experiment.
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But I knew what I was, I
knew I liked guys when I was,
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as long as I can remember, like,
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nine, 10, 11, 12 years old.
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So, someone like me dating someone
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who is gay, it doesn't work.
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Because we're looking
for different things.
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I'm looking for what my dad is to my mom.
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You know, because that's the type of male
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that I would prefer to have in my life.
166
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And those are the types I've always dated.
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So, I started to date women in college.
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And I never, it was very tough,
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'cause I don't identify,
I never did, as a lesbian.
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But I very much loved to date women.
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And I went through several relationships,
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and they all kind of ended.
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And I didn't have the ability
to be in a solid relationship
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'cause I wasn't solidly who I was yet.
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But it's interesting how everybody,
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almost to the person, wants to know
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where you're at on the spectrum,
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and where you fall within that community,
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and within that group of people.
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I use the term queer to describe myself
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in terms of sexuality
because it leaves room
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for my gender being not
male and not female.
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Like, if I say I'm gay, most people
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would think, oh, that's a man.
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If I say I'm a lesbian,
people would think,
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oh, that person's a woman.
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Being gay is wrapped up in being queer.
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But being queer also
kind of causes to pause
189
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and think about intersections between
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gender identity and sexual orientation.
191
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I treat individuals and couples
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in all realms of sexuality.
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Some about disfunction, some about gender.
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Nature versus nurture, as a clinician,
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I can tell you it's really about biology.
196
00:09:01,020 --> 00:09:02,890
And it really has to do with how you move
197
00:09:02,890 --> 00:09:05,700
and groove your biology
in your social world.
198
00:09:05,700 --> 00:09:08,900
But again, most of the
time you can fight it,
199
00:09:08,900 --> 00:09:11,120
but you have to be really
true to who you are.
200
00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:13,390
Because your biology will lead you there.
201
00:09:13,390 --> 00:09:18,290
Intersexed is really
what a lot of people called
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hermaphrodism or hermaphrodite.
203
00:09:20,330 --> 00:09:22,750
Now, the big thing about both sexes
204
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is you have your male,
you have your female.
205
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But you have this wide scope in between
206
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of people that are born, you know,
207
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in between this situation.
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It's not always male,
female, black or white.
209
00:09:38,150 --> 00:09:43,150
I mean there's a plethora
of that middle gray area.
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We are born who we are sexually.
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And sexuality is on a continuum.
212
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Where you are on the spectrum,
the continuum of gay,
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bisexual, and straight has
to do mostly with genetics.
214
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I have been confused to be transgender.
215
00:10:03,750 --> 00:10:08,750
Some people have said to me,
we heard you were once a man.
216
00:10:10,310 --> 00:10:12,780
I've heard people say to me, you know,
217
00:10:13,950 --> 00:10:15,550
I understand that you're
going through a sex change,
218
00:10:15,550 --> 00:10:17,270
why would you want to become a man.
219
00:10:17,270 --> 00:10:19,130
You know, we heard you were a lesbian.
220
00:10:19,130 --> 00:10:23,390
And what I try to explain
to people is if this is what
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you want to know from
me, you should probably
222
00:10:27,210 --> 00:10:30,910
get to know me better as a
person or an individual first.
223
00:10:30,910 --> 00:10:33,030
And then let's talk as we go along,
224
00:10:33,030 --> 00:10:34,510
instead of hitting me with that.
225
00:10:34,510 --> 00:10:37,040
There's a great example
that I have from college,
226
00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:38,510
and that's a fraternity brother.
227
00:10:38,510 --> 00:10:41,490
He never met a gay person, ever.
228
00:10:41,490 --> 00:10:43,800
It certainly wasn't a
part of his growing up,
229
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that's a fair way to say it.
230
00:10:45,950 --> 00:10:48,730
Not something he saw and experienced.
231
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And not something he really accepted.
232
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And he admits that.
233
00:10:51,630 --> 00:10:53,950
He says, I was a, I was a total homophobe.
234
00:10:53,950 --> 00:10:57,850
And as a result of how
our relationship started,
235
00:10:58,790 --> 00:11:02,090
he had no choice but to get to know me.
236
00:11:02,090 --> 00:11:04,210
Because that's how the process
went with the fraternity.
237
00:11:04,210 --> 00:11:08,620
And having to pledge and spend
this amount of time together.
238
00:11:08,620 --> 00:11:11,730
When we talk about that,
that means the world to me.
239
00:11:11,730 --> 00:11:14,050
Because that's a firsthand
example of someone
240
00:11:14,050 --> 00:11:18,410
who got to know who I am first,
241
00:11:18,410 --> 00:11:20,630
before they got to know what I am.
242
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(rap music)
♪ Russian roulette ♪
243
00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:26,390
♪ But does it take ♪
244
00:11:26,390 --> 00:11:27,640
♪ Can you relate ♪
245
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♪ How much can you take ♪
246
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I think the reason why homosexuality
247
00:11:30,250 --> 00:11:33,810
is considered taboo in
hip-hop is because they just
248
00:11:33,810 --> 00:11:38,770
associate it with being soft and weak.
249
00:11:38,770 --> 00:11:41,650
And with hip-hop, it's all about bravado,
250
00:11:41,650 --> 00:11:43,410
strength, masculinity.
251
00:11:43,410 --> 00:11:45,330
If you didn't really listen to the lyrics,
252
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you would think, oh, this
is just a regular song.
253
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A little dance song.
254
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And you would connect with it,
255
00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:51,890
because it sounds good and it feels good.
256
00:11:51,890 --> 00:11:53,250
But if you really listen to the lyrics,
257
00:11:53,250 --> 00:11:55,340
I'm talking about how I'm attracted
258
00:11:55,340 --> 00:11:58,710
to certain individuals, and how it was
259
00:11:58,710 --> 00:12:01,090
for me coming out of the closet.
260
00:12:01,090 --> 00:12:03,410
But it feels good, and that's what people
261
00:12:03,410 --> 00:12:04,290
want at the end of the day.
262
00:12:04,290 --> 00:12:06,450
They just want something
that they can connect with.
263
00:12:06,450 --> 00:12:08,570
I didn't have any struggles.
264
00:12:08,570 --> 00:12:11,810
My mom just raised us that it was about
265
00:12:11,810 --> 00:12:14,140
the individual and the soul.
266
00:12:14,140 --> 00:12:16,350
And it just kind of stuck.
267
00:12:16,350 --> 00:12:17,680
You know, that's just the way it was.
268
00:12:17,680 --> 00:12:19,760
It was about the person, and if you didn't
269
00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:21,940
like the person, it
doesn't change anything.
270
00:12:21,940 --> 00:12:25,640
If people get to know
people, it all changes.
271
00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:27,740
It's so scary when you
don't know the people.
272
00:12:27,740 --> 00:12:30,820
But the trans people that I've met
273
00:12:31,900 --> 00:12:36,490
turn out to be nice,
wonderful, productive,
274
00:12:36,490 --> 00:12:39,110
taxpaying citizens who are born
275
00:12:39,110 --> 00:12:41,350
with certain inalienable rights.
276
00:12:41,350 --> 00:12:42,500
And among these are life, liberty
277
00:12:42,500 --> 00:12:43,390
and the pursuit of happiness.
278
00:12:43,390 --> 00:12:47,130
So when North Carolina,
Charlotte, the city of Charlotte,
279
00:12:47,130 --> 00:12:49,920
passes a law to make their lives easier,
280
00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:53,270
why does the Republican governor
and Republican legislature
281
00:12:53,270 --> 00:12:54,480
of the state of North Carolina
282
00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:58,300
have to come in and stamp down
on Charlotte and say, no, no,
283
00:12:58,300 --> 00:13:00,120
you can't make these
people's lives easier.
284
00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:01,840
You can't show them
any dignity or respect.
285
00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:06,840
I don't use words
like genderqueer or gay,
286
00:13:06,890 --> 00:13:09,890
or whatever as identity, I use it
287
00:13:09,890 --> 00:13:12,880
to just sort of describe
this aspect of myself.
288
00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,100
'Cause I feel like there's things about me
289
00:13:15,100 --> 00:13:17,110
that say way more about
myself as a person.
290
00:13:17,110 --> 00:13:20,090
Like, I have two little
cousins, and I'm like,
291
00:13:20,090 --> 00:13:21,710
you know, the badass older cousin.
292
00:13:21,710 --> 00:13:23,230
And if I said that to somebody,
293
00:13:23,230 --> 00:13:25,070
that says way more about how I think
294
00:13:25,070 --> 00:13:27,120
about things and what I care about.
295
00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:32,120
As I got older, I made
a point of not using
296
00:13:32,370 --> 00:13:36,290
that label to identify myself,
297
00:13:36,290 --> 00:13:39,880
because I would like to see
other people's reactions
298
00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:42,220
or interpretations to how we interact
299
00:13:42,220 --> 00:13:45,430
with one another when we first meet.
300
00:13:45,430 --> 00:13:48,010
Before they have that information.
301
00:13:48,010 --> 00:13:50,760
(soothing music)
302
00:13:58,580 --> 00:14:00,900
10 being completely gay,
303
00:14:00,900 --> 00:14:02,140
and one being completely straight,
304
00:14:02,140 --> 00:14:05,020
I would say like six or seven.
305
00:14:05,020 --> 00:14:07,260
I don't know the number.
306
00:14:07,260 --> 00:14:11,800
Like, the one to 10 seems very specific.
307
00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,500
10 being very gay, I'm like an 11.5.
308
00:14:14,500 --> 00:14:18,040
I, jeez, I don't know,
I never thought of that.
309
00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:19,280
Five, maybe?
310
00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:22,140
I would say five,
just because I've lived
311
00:14:22,140 --> 00:14:27,000
with a woman for three years,
and we were in a relationship.
312
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:28,610
I don't, I tend to
vacillate back and forth.
313
00:14:28,610 --> 00:14:30,350
It kind of depends on where I am.
314
00:14:30,350 --> 00:14:32,140
I never really think about it.
315
00:14:32,140 --> 00:14:33,840
- Eight.
- Eight.
316
00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:35,440
Yeah.
- Yeah.
317
00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:37,290
Cool.
- I am attracted to girls,
318
00:14:37,290 --> 00:14:40,870
and I think everyone is bisexual.
319
00:14:40,870 --> 00:14:43,350
I just don't understand
why it's a big deal.
320
00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,810
Like an eight-ish, nine-ish, 10-ish.
321
00:14:48,810 --> 00:14:50,500
I'm gonna say five.
322
00:14:50,500 --> 00:14:52,040
But my stepbrother is also gay.
323
00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:56,960
So my mom calls herself like
a walking PFLAG advertisement.
324
00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:58,380
That's why we know he's an eight,
325
00:14:58,380 --> 00:15:01,180
'cause we've met his brother.
- Yes, my brother's a 10.
326
00:15:02,060 --> 00:15:02,890
For sure.
327
00:15:03,770 --> 00:15:05,420
(soothing music)
328
00:15:05,420 --> 00:15:06,820
You know, the process of coming out,
329
00:15:06,820 --> 00:15:09,200
in a way, as wonderful as it is
330
00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,130
that things are better for today's kids,
331
00:15:11,130 --> 00:15:14,100
and it's totally wonderful and
we wouldn't wanna change it,
332
00:15:14,100 --> 00:15:16,830
there was something kind
of amazing about being part
333
00:15:16,830 --> 00:15:20,590
of this struggle, which is not
over, we have a ways to go.
334
00:15:20,590 --> 00:15:22,910
But the progress we've made, and to get
335
00:15:22,910 --> 00:15:25,850
to see it happen has been great.
336
00:15:25,850 --> 00:15:29,550
I knew for certain, I was about 14.
337
00:15:29,550 --> 00:15:31,400
I had had my first girlfriend at 13.
338
00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:35,630
And I thought, no. (laughs)
339
00:15:35,630 --> 00:15:36,470
I mean, I don't think I ever was in.
340
00:15:36,470 --> 00:15:38,320
For me, coming out was just a realization.
341
00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:39,950
And I didn't know why I wasn't attracted
342
00:15:39,950 --> 00:15:42,190
to the girls that my
classmates were attracted to.
343
00:15:42,190 --> 00:15:43,280
It didn't make any sense to me,
344
00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:44,920
other than I wasn't attracted to them.
345
00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:48,260
Around the third grade,
I had my very first crush.
346
00:15:48,260 --> 00:15:50,690
And it was my boy, so, I knew.
347
00:15:51,550 --> 00:15:56,550
I mean, there were huge,
massive, gut-wrenching crushes.
348
00:15:58,050 --> 00:16:03,050
That were just more confusing
and frustrating than anything.
349
00:16:04,230 --> 00:16:05,290
As I grew up.
350
00:16:06,290 --> 00:16:08,950
And then I started to feel like,
351
00:16:08,950 --> 00:16:11,950
I started to get a clue about it.
352
00:16:11,950 --> 00:16:14,890
And I was like, that's what this is.
353
00:16:14,890 --> 00:16:17,110
This isn't normal.
354
00:16:17,110 --> 00:16:20,810
I'm not like, I'm not like my friends.
355
00:16:20,810 --> 00:16:21,960
I like my friends.
356
00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:23,410
You know what I mean, or once in awhile,
357
00:16:23,410 --> 00:16:26,940
I would like a certain
person that was just like,
358
00:16:27,910 --> 00:16:32,770
you know, too intense, too
much, too, too something.
359
00:16:32,770 --> 00:16:33,790
And I couldn't even name it.
360
00:16:33,790 --> 00:16:37,870
It was just like this desire
to be with that person.
361
00:16:37,870 --> 00:16:38,830
And so that was frustrating.
362
00:16:38,830 --> 00:16:43,150
But with my pending
marriage, I was on a mission.
363
00:16:43,150 --> 00:16:45,430
I was like I must know, I
was really clear about it.
364
00:16:45,430 --> 00:16:47,610
No, I have to have sex with
a girl before I get married,
365
00:16:47,610 --> 00:16:50,860
because I just have to
make sure I'm not gay.
366
00:16:50,860 --> 00:16:54,040
My mother had this great Lucite shoe
367
00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:55,930
with a plastic front and a slingback.
368
00:16:55,930 --> 00:16:57,470
And she was a 10 narrow, mind you.
369
00:16:57,470 --> 00:17:00,750
So I was a man's size nine and a half.
370
00:17:00,750 --> 00:17:02,710
So they were like my favorite shoe.
371
00:17:02,710 --> 00:17:03,790
It was like Cinderella's shoe.
372
00:17:03,790 --> 00:17:06,500
So growing up, I used to
go downstairs and sneak
373
00:17:06,500 --> 00:17:10,950
in the cedar closet and parade
around in the Lucite shoes.
374
00:17:10,950 --> 00:17:13,460
And my mother couldn't
figure out how the plastic
375
00:17:13,460 --> 00:17:15,690
had stretched out so much when she went
376
00:17:15,690 --> 00:17:17,990
to wear them a couple of years later.
377
00:17:17,990 --> 00:17:21,010
So I just said, oh, must be
the construction of the shoe,
378
00:17:21,010 --> 00:17:23,430
mom, I guess they were inexpensive.
379
00:17:23,430 --> 00:17:25,080
Having a conversation about
380
00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:27,730
my sexuality was never a big deal.
381
00:17:27,730 --> 00:17:29,270
I don't even remember the conversation
382
00:17:29,270 --> 00:17:31,060
I had with my father,
to be honest with you.
383
00:17:31,060 --> 00:17:32,880
It was like so nonchalant.
384
00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:34,360
We were probably in the car,
385
00:17:34,360 --> 00:17:37,260
and his response was probably, okay.
386
00:17:37,260 --> 00:17:41,510
I did not come out of the
closet until I was 40 years old.
387
00:17:41,510 --> 00:17:43,200
That was about nine years ago.
388
00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:45,770
I grew up in a small town in the Midwest.
389
00:17:45,770 --> 00:17:48,200
And stayed there for college.
390
00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,660
And I don't think I
honestly really had any idea
391
00:17:52,860 --> 00:17:56,380
who or what I was until
sometime in law school.
392
00:17:56,380 --> 00:17:59,450
It was something that kind
of dawned on me slowly.
393
00:17:59,450 --> 00:18:01,100
And with a lot of resistance.
394
00:18:01,100 --> 00:18:04,200
And I resisted it kicking and screaming.
395
00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:06,590
And it was only when I became a partner
396
00:18:06,590 --> 00:18:10,620
at my firm and relocated
here, that something about
397
00:18:10,620 --> 00:18:13,670
the change of scenery or
something just snapped,
398
00:18:13,670 --> 00:18:16,810
and said, that's it, you
can't keep going on like this.
399
00:18:16,810 --> 00:18:21,150
I did come out to my
mom, it was Easter weekend,
400
00:18:21,150 --> 00:18:24,850
about almost 30 years ago I think.
401
00:18:24,850 --> 00:18:29,230
And I called my mother up,
and I was living with a man,
402
00:18:29,230 --> 00:18:32,070
who was about 19 years older than me.
403
00:18:32,070 --> 00:18:34,390
And we were together for a few years,
404
00:18:34,390 --> 00:18:37,490
and I wanted my mom to know,
so I told her I was gay.
405
00:18:37,490 --> 00:18:40,930
And I was like really worked
up over it, about telling her.
406
00:18:40,930 --> 00:18:43,290
And what I was thinking
about was like my mother
407
00:18:43,290 --> 00:18:46,400
thinking about me having
sex with another man.
408
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:49,390
That's what actually was
going through my mind.
409
00:18:49,390 --> 00:18:51,770
So I was able to tell my mom,
410
00:18:51,770 --> 00:18:53,660
and she was pretty awesome about it.
411
00:18:53,660 --> 00:18:57,090
She said, she was awesome,
and she wasn't awesome.
412
00:18:57,090 --> 00:19:00,670
So the first thing she said
was, I always knew you were gay.
413
00:19:00,670 --> 00:19:01,710
And I was like, oh really, well,
414
00:19:01,710 --> 00:19:03,650
why didn't you tell me like 10 years ago,
415
00:19:03,650 --> 00:19:05,030
if you knew I was gay.
416
00:19:05,030 --> 00:19:07,360
But then the other thing
she said to me was,
417
00:19:07,360 --> 00:19:09,170
let's not tell your father.
418
00:19:10,380 --> 00:19:12,190
I was so scared to come out to him.
419
00:19:12,190 --> 00:19:14,250
And then my mother, I
was always a mama's boy.
420
00:19:14,250 --> 00:19:15,820
So I wasn't too nervous about telling her.
421
00:19:15,820 --> 00:19:19,230
I knew she would be a
little more understanding.
422
00:19:19,230 --> 00:19:21,460
And then I finally told my father.
423
00:19:21,460 --> 00:19:25,690
And he didn't really understand
where I was coming from.
424
00:19:25,690 --> 00:19:26,850
He didn't want to believe it.
425
00:19:26,850 --> 00:19:30,660
And then my mother, she
eventually came around,
426
00:19:30,660 --> 00:19:33,200
and she accepted it, and she
got a chance to meet Richard.
427
00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:35,280
And I think that's what really brought
428
00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:36,320
both of my parents in.
429
00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:39,160
They said, okay, he is an older white guy,
430
00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:40,970
but he's actually a nice guy.
431
00:19:40,970 --> 00:19:42,070
He's very likable.
432
00:19:42,070 --> 00:19:44,010
And they just want me to be happy.
433
00:19:44,010 --> 00:19:45,910
And they saw that he made me happy,
434
00:19:45,910 --> 00:19:48,850
and so, they just jumped
on board with that.
435
00:19:48,850 --> 00:19:51,290
I said mom, dad, I have
something to tell you.
436
00:19:51,290 --> 00:19:53,250
And my dad says, well what is it?
437
00:19:53,250 --> 00:19:55,030
And I said, well, it has
to do with my sexuality.
438
00:19:55,030 --> 00:19:57,070
And my dad says to me,
do you know what you are?
439
00:19:57,070 --> 00:19:57,970
And I said, well, I'm gay.
440
00:19:57,970 --> 00:19:59,920
And he says, well I kind of figured that.
441
00:19:59,920 --> 00:20:01,530
And then my mom looked right at me,
442
00:20:01,530 --> 00:20:03,830
and sighed with relief,
and says, oh, thank God,
443
00:20:03,830 --> 00:20:05,960
I thought you had cancer or something.
444
00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,630
(laughs) No, true story, I
mean, oh, you're only gay.
445
00:20:11,110 --> 00:20:12,190
But I will say this.
446
00:20:12,190 --> 00:20:15,250
A couple of my friends
stopped talking to me
447
00:20:15,250 --> 00:20:18,010
because I didn't tell them that I was gay.
448
00:20:18,010 --> 00:20:19,340
And I told them I couldn't tell them
449
00:20:19,340 --> 00:20:23,220
because I was just so scared
of how they would react.
450
00:20:23,220 --> 00:20:25,170
Think about it, you're in high school,
451
00:20:25,170 --> 00:20:26,830
and you tell your friends that you're gay.
452
00:20:26,830 --> 00:20:29,050
They might look at you
and just disown you.
453
00:20:29,050 --> 00:20:31,430
So, I told them, and a couple of them
454
00:20:31,430 --> 00:20:32,260
just stopped talking to me.
455
00:20:32,260 --> 00:20:33,320
It's unfortunate, because we were
456
00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:34,840
best friends for so many years.
457
00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:38,960
And then this one little
thing just turned them off.
458
00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:40,970
If you meet someone and
you fall in love with them,
459
00:20:40,970 --> 00:20:44,760
why would you let anything
stop you from love?
460
00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:46,610
And that's really what it comes down to.
461
00:20:46,610 --> 00:20:48,850
Regardless of the race,
regardless of the religion,
462
00:20:48,850 --> 00:20:50,620
regardless of the gender.
463
00:20:50,620 --> 00:20:52,950
Why are you gonna stop
yourself and prevent yourself
464
00:20:52,950 --> 00:20:55,570
from feeling love, when you're
afraid of the party parts.
465
00:20:55,570 --> 00:20:57,330
These are party parts.
466
00:20:57,330 --> 00:20:58,770
It's a relationship.
467
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:01,990
And again, that's the
way my mom raised me.
468
00:21:01,990 --> 00:21:04,050
So again, the coming out
thing wasn't a big issue.
469
00:21:04,050 --> 00:21:06,210
It was, oh, this is my girlfriend, okay.
470
00:21:06,210 --> 00:21:08,500
I was married for about 10 years,
471
00:21:08,500 --> 00:21:13,200
when I realized that, that I was gay.
472
00:21:14,490 --> 00:21:17,380
And that I needed to
get out of the marriage
473
00:21:17,380 --> 00:21:20,140
and be who I really was.
474
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:22,190
It was tough.
475
00:21:22,190 --> 00:21:25,750
My children were young,
I have three children.
476
00:21:25,750 --> 00:21:26,580
And,
477
00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:31,070
it was a long hard battle.
478
00:21:31,940 --> 00:21:35,190
Gotta get laid before this wedding.
479
00:21:35,190 --> 00:21:37,870
Which was still like
eight, nine months away.
480
00:21:37,870 --> 00:21:38,700
So,
481
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,470
I saw her sitting at the bar, I was like,
482
00:21:43,530 --> 00:21:45,200
do you want to go skiing, you know.
483
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:47,720
And so that began this little romance
484
00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,370
without sex and without,
you know, anything.
485
00:21:50,370 --> 00:21:51,620
And after work, we would just talk
486
00:21:51,620 --> 00:21:52,710
on the phone till three in the morning.
487
00:21:52,710 --> 00:21:54,050
And she had to work at
eight in the morning.
488
00:21:54,050 --> 00:21:57,040
So we had this mad love
affair on the phone.
489
00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,430
And finally, one night,
she goes, come over.
490
00:21:59,430 --> 00:22:03,850
The day I came out to my
parents, my dad gave me a choice.
491
00:22:03,850 --> 00:22:07,250
He said that I could basically
be under house arrest
492
00:22:07,250 --> 00:22:10,900
and quit work, give up
my car, or I could take
493
00:22:10,900 --> 00:22:13,220
whatever I could carry, and
I could leave that night.
494
00:22:13,220 --> 00:22:15,330
And I chose to leave.
495
00:22:15,330 --> 00:22:18,390
And he gave me a broken laundry basket,
496
00:22:18,390 --> 00:22:20,720
and I put as many clothes as I could fit,
497
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,420
my school books, and my Les Miserables CD,
498
00:22:23,420 --> 00:22:25,230
the first CD I ever bought.
499
00:22:25,230 --> 00:22:29,250
And piled into my Plymouth Reliant K car.
500
00:22:29,250 --> 00:22:31,190
And I named her Ethel.
501
00:22:31,190 --> 00:22:33,350
And left.
502
00:22:33,350 --> 00:22:34,420
I didn't have a plan.
503
00:22:34,420 --> 00:22:37,810
I walked into her dark apartment.
504
00:22:37,810 --> 00:22:40,870
And, you know, there was
a light on in her bedroom.
505
00:22:40,870 --> 00:22:43,290
And I went in there, and she was like,
506
00:22:44,190 --> 00:22:46,300
laying in bed, I think she was just like,
507
00:22:47,430 --> 00:22:49,240
either naked, or wearing just underwear
508
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:52,760
or something like that, and
I was just like, you know.
509
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:56,470
And I was like, I got naked
and got in bed with her.
510
00:22:56,470 --> 00:22:58,730
And then she like rolled on top of me,
511
00:22:58,730 --> 00:23:01,040
and I'll just never forget, like,
512
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:06,040
the first thing in noticed was
like her tiny little frame.
513
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:08,130
You know, like, because she's a girl.
514
00:23:08,130 --> 00:23:11,140
And I had had sex with a boy at that time.
515
00:23:11,140 --> 00:23:15,690
So, her tiny little
shoulders like on mine,
516
00:23:15,690 --> 00:23:18,660
her little tiny freckled
shoulders were just
517
00:23:18,660 --> 00:23:21,270
so ridiculously gorgeous to me,
518
00:23:21,270 --> 00:23:25,000
and I just finally like, you
know, it's such a cliche,
519
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,600
but I understood what the
big deal about sex was.
520
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:32,450
I understood why I was
born, why I was alive.
521
00:23:32,450 --> 00:23:36,360
I understood that God
had meant her for me.
522
00:23:36,360 --> 00:23:37,710
I did come out to my parents.
523
00:23:37,710 --> 00:23:39,920
You know, I was raised in
a Catholic Italian family.
524
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:41,950
And my dad screamed at me
and threw all my clothes
525
00:23:41,950 --> 00:23:43,710
on the bed, and then asked
me what I wanted for dinner.
526
00:23:43,710 --> 00:23:45,440
So it was just another night at the house.
527
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,330
There was a little bit of
hiding that had to happen then.
528
00:23:48,330 --> 00:23:50,730
But I didn't do too much of that.
529
00:23:50,730 --> 00:23:53,510
I just went to the bars and all of that.
530
00:23:53,510 --> 00:23:56,920
And I tended to be
involved more in movements
531
00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:58,900
where people were trying to make change.
532
00:23:58,900 --> 00:24:02,930
So I was more surrounded with
people who were like-minded.
533
00:24:02,930 --> 00:24:06,330
One out of 2,000 people are
born this way, both sexes.
534
00:24:06,330 --> 00:24:08,550
I believe myself that
there is much more to me.
535
00:24:08,550 --> 00:24:10,740
It's just something that doctors believe.
536
00:24:10,740 --> 00:24:12,440
You know, I don't even
think they've touched
537
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:14,870
the surface of this and don't want to.
538
00:24:14,870 --> 00:24:17,550
I was able to make my decision, luckily,
539
00:24:17,550 --> 00:24:20,610
because my parents, they weren't
in a high-income bracket,
540
00:24:20,610 --> 00:24:24,080
so the funds weren't
there to get me treated
541
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,000
right then and there as
the doctors would call it.
542
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:27,510
And the other thing is,
543
00:24:27,510 --> 00:24:29,370
I come from out in the middle of nowhere.
544
00:24:29,370 --> 00:24:30,290
Let's say that.
545
00:24:30,290 --> 00:24:32,950
And it was more of a shush and get it
546
00:24:32,950 --> 00:24:34,310
out the door type of thing.
547
00:24:34,310 --> 00:24:36,290
After my first few months
of college, I was home,
548
00:24:36,290 --> 00:24:38,650
I was driving around with
my mom, running errands,
549
00:24:38,650 --> 00:24:40,960
and she asked me if I'd
met anybody interesting.
550
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,870
And she was strangely keeping
things very gender-neutral.
551
00:24:43,870 --> 00:24:45,430
And I remember saying to her, yeah,
552
00:24:45,430 --> 00:24:47,160
there's a few interesting people.
553
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:48,480
And she said, is there anyone you want
554
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,370
to date or bring home?
555
00:24:50,370 --> 00:24:53,270
And I said, there might
be one or two out there.
556
00:24:53,270 --> 00:24:54,380
And she looks at me and she says,
557
00:24:54,380 --> 00:24:55,860
I just want you to be happy.
558
00:24:55,860 --> 00:24:58,600
And I want you to bring home
a nice girl, or a nice guy.
559
00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:01,040
Coming out was a shit show.
560
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,810
I don't know if I can say
that, but it was a shit show.
561
00:25:03,810 --> 00:25:07,710
And I came out in college,
not even that long ago.
562
00:25:07,710 --> 00:25:10,410
But when I came out,
marriage was not legal.
563
00:25:10,410 --> 00:25:13,480
So, now, it's a big difference.
564
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,020
And I think it makes a difference to kids.
565
00:25:16,020 --> 00:25:18,620
And for me, I came out in the context
566
00:25:18,620 --> 00:25:20,470
of a sorority, actually.
567
00:25:21,940 --> 00:25:26,900
And it was a very conservative situation.
568
00:25:26,900 --> 00:25:30,270
And I was dating a fellow sister.
569
00:25:30,270 --> 00:25:31,810
And it was really bad.
570
00:25:31,810 --> 00:25:34,750
It was not a pleasant
environment to come out in.
571
00:25:34,750 --> 00:25:37,020
When it came to college,
I was my own person.
572
00:25:37,020 --> 00:25:39,310
I was on my own, I was
living with roommates
573
00:25:39,310 --> 00:25:41,390
and had people that I knew
and that I appreciated
574
00:25:41,390 --> 00:25:43,550
from the day I started in college.
575
00:25:43,550 --> 00:25:48,020
And those were people who were
just open about everything.
576
00:25:48,020 --> 00:25:50,520
They didn't have a problem
with someone saying
577
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,050
they were interested in
a guy if they were a guy.
578
00:25:53,050 --> 00:25:55,720
They didn't have that
hangup that some people did.
579
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:57,990
And I found that fascinating,
so I explored it.
580
00:25:57,990 --> 00:26:00,590
And I would ask friends, what
do you think of that guy,
581
00:26:00,590 --> 00:26:02,520
'cause I think he's very handsome.
582
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:03,420
And they'd say, oh, well, I think he's
583
00:26:03,420 --> 00:26:04,560
handsome too, you should date him.
584
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:06,850
I was pushed out of the
closet, or I came out.
585
00:26:06,850 --> 00:26:09,530
And then I left, and I
traveled for nine months.
586
00:26:09,530 --> 00:26:11,340
And then I came back to New York.
587
00:26:11,340 --> 00:26:12,810
And I was ready to hit the ground running.
588
00:26:12,810 --> 00:26:15,260
And be as gay as possible.
589
00:26:15,260 --> 00:26:17,010
And that is exactly what I've done.
590
00:26:17,010 --> 00:26:19,830
And so everything that I do is gay now.
591
00:26:19,830 --> 00:26:23,580
My work, my whole world.
592
00:26:23,580 --> 00:26:26,150
You know, I think we all
want to kind of control
593
00:26:26,150 --> 00:26:28,610
how we appear to other people.
594
00:26:28,610 --> 00:26:31,750
And to have to transition and
to have to let go of that,
595
00:26:31,750 --> 00:26:34,450
and let people make their
own decisions about you
596
00:26:34,450 --> 00:26:38,190
and possibly talk about
you, and judge you,
597
00:26:38,190 --> 00:26:41,030
and become uncomfortable when
you go into their bathroom,
598
00:26:41,030 --> 00:26:44,760
it's really, letting go of all
that was extremely difficult.
599
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:48,830
But also super freeing once it happened.
600
00:26:48,830 --> 00:26:51,070
Finally, I was exactly right
where I was supposed to be.
601
00:26:51,070 --> 00:26:53,470
It was like, thank God
this is gonna happen.
602
00:26:53,470 --> 00:26:55,820
And it did, and I was like, I love you.
603
00:26:55,820 --> 00:26:57,430
And I can never leave you.
604
00:26:57,430 --> 00:27:00,570
And I married her, and
I'm still married to her.
605
00:27:00,570 --> 00:27:01,990
That's what happened
when I finally got laid.
606
00:27:01,990 --> 00:27:04,420
I was like, okay, don't
go, don't ever leave.
607
00:27:04,420 --> 00:27:05,870
The most important thing to me
608
00:27:05,870 --> 00:27:09,170
is that I waited till I was 34.
609
00:27:09,170 --> 00:27:11,230
And everything happens
when it's supposed to,
610
00:27:11,230 --> 00:27:15,000
but there is no reason to
wait to be who you are.
611
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,380
I have been wearing dress-up clothes
612
00:27:17,380 --> 00:27:20,120
for as long as I can remember.
613
00:27:20,120 --> 00:27:24,630
I got my first dress-up box
when I was four, I think.
614
00:27:24,630 --> 00:27:27,220
Because they had one at my preschool,
615
00:27:27,220 --> 00:27:30,120
and that was where I enjoyed
spending all of my time.
616
00:27:30,120 --> 00:27:32,650
So then I got one at home.
617
00:27:32,650 --> 00:27:36,330
And eventually it turned
into a costume closet.
618
00:27:36,330 --> 00:27:38,900
And now it's just my wardrobe.
619
00:27:38,900 --> 00:27:41,950
You know, I see kids sort
of trying on what they may be,
620
00:27:41,950 --> 00:27:44,690
in a space that's a lot more open
621
00:27:44,690 --> 00:27:47,280
and a lot less condemning
than the one I was in.
622
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:49,250
In this process of
transitioning, I feel like
623
00:27:49,250 --> 00:27:52,870
the first couple years it is
about refinding who you are,
624
00:27:52,870 --> 00:27:55,710
and really falling in love with who I am.
625
00:27:55,710 --> 00:27:58,120
And that's something I have never been.
626
00:27:58,120 --> 00:28:01,650
Growing up, it was very, I
just didn't feel comfortable.
627
00:28:01,650 --> 00:28:03,180
I didn't like who I was.
628
00:28:03,180 --> 00:28:04,580
I thought I was a late bloomer.
629
00:28:04,580 --> 00:28:06,660
I always thought, eventually
I'm gonna want to,
630
00:28:06,660 --> 00:28:07,860
I just don't want to yet.
631
00:28:07,860 --> 00:28:10,850
Like when my friends started
wearing bras in sixth grade,
632
00:28:10,850 --> 00:28:12,630
and I was like, yeah, I don't want to,
633
00:28:12,630 --> 00:28:15,680
but I'm sure I will want to,
but I just don't want to yet.
634
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:17,240
And when they started carrying purses,
635
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:22,110
I was like, nope, I don't
wanna carry a purse.
636
00:28:22,110 --> 00:28:25,050
But I'm sure at some point I'm
gonna want to carry a purse,
637
00:28:25,050 --> 00:28:27,140
it's just like I'm a late bloomer.
638
00:28:27,140 --> 00:28:27,970
That's what I thought.
639
00:28:27,970 --> 00:28:31,540
A lot of the men I
looked up to growing up
640
00:28:31,540 --> 00:28:34,160
were gay directors, gay choreographers,
641
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,130
and people that to me seemed really cool.
642
00:28:37,130 --> 00:28:39,570
And I loved being a little
bit different and edgy.
643
00:28:39,570 --> 00:28:40,750
And I was.
644
00:28:40,750 --> 00:28:44,120
So I kind of, I was hoping I was gay.
645
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:45,680
And it turned out I was gay.
646
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:47,900
In the gay community
there's different types.
647
00:28:47,900 --> 00:28:49,700
And you have your flighty types,
648
00:28:49,700 --> 00:28:51,560
or you know, flamboyant types.
649
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,670
But I was more like, carried
myself like the girls
650
00:28:54,670 --> 00:28:56,330
that I knew, just like a regular girl.
651
00:28:56,330 --> 00:29:01,330
So I was often confused
to be one of the girls.
652
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,900
And I thought, see, I'm being me.
653
00:29:04,900 --> 00:29:07,570
And so when I was about nine,
654
00:29:07,570 --> 00:29:10,880
I chopped off my hair and I
said I'm a boy named Felix.
655
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,820
And so for awhile I went by that name,
656
00:29:13,820 --> 00:29:16,250
and I went by male
pronouns whenever I could.
657
00:29:16,250 --> 00:29:19,780
But still, that wasn't quite right.
658
00:29:19,780 --> 00:29:23,070
It was just more right for
me at that time, I guess.
659
00:29:23,070 --> 00:29:25,940
My body doesn't match who I am.
660
00:29:26,830 --> 00:29:30,290
It's matching more, externally.
661
00:29:30,290 --> 00:29:33,400
But there are (sighs) certain steps I need
662
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,310
to go through to complete this process.
663
00:29:36,310 --> 00:29:39,330
To get further along in the transition.
664
00:29:39,330 --> 00:29:43,740
It makes relationships a little hard.
665
00:29:43,740 --> 00:29:46,000
RuPaul has this saying that we're all
666
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:47,980
born naked and the rest is drag.
667
00:29:47,980 --> 00:29:52,760
I think everyone is in drag
all the time, pretty much,
668
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:54,240
even if you're not conscious of it.
669
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:58,600
Naked, I'm not who I want to be.
670
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,290
And I don't know
671
00:30:01,290 --> 00:30:04,970
how to be with somebody like that.
672
00:30:04,970 --> 00:30:08,130
I had, I had one encounter with someone
673
00:30:08,130 --> 00:30:11,110
who knew me before I transitioned.
674
00:30:11,110 --> 00:30:13,140
And it was awkward.
675
00:30:13,140 --> 00:30:15,580
It was awkward, not so
much for her, but for me.
676
00:30:15,580 --> 00:30:17,590
I kind of got up the following morning,
677
00:30:17,590 --> 00:30:19,220
just feeling like a guy.
678
00:30:19,220 --> 00:30:21,610
And I just felt like I'd
taken such a step backwards.
679
00:30:21,610 --> 00:30:23,410
The hardest part of transitioning
680
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,430
was letting go of what
people thought of me.
681
00:30:27,430 --> 00:30:28,970
'Cause really it's none of my business
682
00:30:28,970 --> 00:30:30,060
what they think of me.
683
00:30:30,060 --> 00:30:35,060
People, even when they
read me as transgender,
684
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:37,910
especially when I open my mouth,
685
00:30:37,910 --> 00:30:40,460
they tend to accept me at face value.
686
00:30:40,460 --> 00:30:42,030
And a year ago they didn't.
687
00:30:42,030 --> 00:30:43,790
A year ago I got weird looks.
688
00:30:43,790 --> 00:30:48,310
And I got people hurling,
you know, pejoratives at me.
689
00:30:48,310 --> 00:30:50,490
And it doesn't happen anymore.
690
00:30:50,490 --> 00:30:53,850
And I think part of it is that
I am at peace with who I am.
691
00:30:53,850 --> 00:30:55,240
And I think people see that.
692
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,310
And there's something about
693
00:30:57,310 --> 00:30:59,450
that that makes them comfortable.
694
00:30:59,450 --> 00:31:03,040
When I started to have
my own sexual awakenings,
695
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,520
I considered myself very much bisexual
696
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,750
and dated men, dated women.
697
00:31:08,750 --> 00:31:13,380
And when I really pursued
the gay side of who I am,
698
00:31:13,380 --> 00:31:15,030
I wanted to be proud of that.
699
00:31:15,030 --> 00:31:17,430
So that's why I was
conflicted as an actor.
700
00:31:17,430 --> 00:31:19,720
To say, wait a second,
if I'm putting myself,
701
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:21,830
if I'm choosing to be in the public eye,
702
00:31:21,830 --> 00:31:25,050
why do I have to hide a
major part of who I am?
703
00:31:25,050 --> 00:31:28,690
I didn't know I was
wrestling with my sexuality.
704
00:31:29,590 --> 00:31:30,530
But I was.
705
00:31:30,530 --> 00:31:32,470
You know, because I was dating girls,
706
00:31:32,470 --> 00:31:33,970
but I was sleeping with guys.
707
00:31:33,970 --> 00:31:37,610
And I was hurting girls, and
you know, pissing off guys.
708
00:31:37,610 --> 00:31:39,110
And it was like not working.
709
00:31:39,110 --> 00:31:43,460
It still took a period of time to get
710
00:31:43,460 --> 00:31:45,560
more well-adjusted in my own skin.
711
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:46,870
I dated a ton.
712
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,160
And learned a lot about what
worked and what didn't work.
713
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:52,410
First of all, I think I knew I was,
714
00:31:52,410 --> 00:31:53,860
I always knew that I was gay.
715
00:31:55,410 --> 00:31:57,890
But I did grow up in a time when
716
00:31:57,890 --> 00:32:00,740
being gay was, a repressive era.
717
00:32:01,590 --> 00:32:05,730
People were being institutionalized,
losing their jobs.
718
00:32:05,730 --> 00:32:07,430
All sorts of terrible
things were happening.
719
00:32:07,430 --> 00:32:09,220
So I never really thought that I could
720
00:32:09,220 --> 00:32:11,160
live a happy life as a gay man.
721
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,690
I am 19, I'll be 20 in a couple weeks.
722
00:32:13,690 --> 00:32:15,630
A lot of people I know are very confident,
723
00:32:15,630 --> 00:32:17,330
and that's awesome.
724
00:32:17,330 --> 00:32:19,020
For me it's been confusing.
725
00:32:19,020 --> 00:32:20,380
I got married to a woman.
726
00:32:20,380 --> 00:32:24,310
But by 1981, I had
decided that I could live
727
00:32:24,310 --> 00:32:26,320
a happy life as a gay
man, and that's who I was,
728
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,130
and I had to be authentic to that.
729
00:32:28,130 --> 00:32:29,450
And I always thought that I had
730
00:32:29,450 --> 00:32:31,650
sort of like gotten over it, or you know,
731
00:32:31,650 --> 00:32:33,440
'cause I had a lot of shame around it,
732
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,310
but then, maybe, you know, five years ago,
733
00:32:36,310 --> 00:32:37,640
it started to creep back up.
734
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:39,460
And so I thought, you know, wait a minute,
735
00:32:39,460 --> 00:32:42,250
this never went away,
I just pushed it away.
736
00:32:42,250 --> 00:32:44,320
And so I was walking down the street,
737
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:46,460
the sun was behind me,
I'm deep in thought,
738
00:32:46,460 --> 00:32:49,360
I'm looking down, and I see my shadow.
739
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,010
And the shadow was that of a woman.
740
00:32:52,010 --> 00:32:54,530
And I'm like, wow.
741
00:32:54,530 --> 00:32:55,560
That's pretty cool.
742
00:32:55,560 --> 00:32:58,200
It was neat because I'm not used
743
00:32:58,200 --> 00:32:59,630
to being caught off guard by that.
744
00:32:59,630 --> 00:33:03,070
I've been so aware every single moment.
745
00:33:03,070 --> 00:33:05,230
When I cross-dressed when I was younger,
746
00:33:06,100 --> 00:33:07,670
and during my transition now.
747
00:33:07,670 --> 00:33:10,150
And it feels like a step forward,
748
00:33:10,150 --> 00:33:12,940
that this isn't the
biggest thing in my life.
749
00:33:12,940 --> 00:33:16,470
When I'm in drag, I do
have an alternate persona.
750
00:33:16,470 --> 00:33:18,340
I got by Amber Alert.
751
00:33:18,340 --> 00:33:22,320
Though I don't like identify as Amber,
752
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:24,650
I've gotten to a point where Amber
753
00:33:24,650 --> 00:33:26,660
will borrow clothes from Harry,
754
00:33:26,660 --> 00:33:29,360
and Harry will sometimes
borrow clothes from Amber.
755
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:31,670
So, the line is very blurry.
756
00:33:31,670 --> 00:33:32,980
But I'm in drag all the time.
757
00:33:32,980 --> 00:33:34,290
Yeah, totally.
758
00:33:34,290 --> 00:33:37,720
My first song that I ever
made was called Regular Person.
759
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,030
♪ I'm just a regular person ♪
760
00:33:40,030 --> 00:33:41,740
♪ Regular person ♪
761
00:33:41,740 --> 00:33:43,250
♪ Yes a regular person ♪
762
00:33:43,250 --> 00:33:44,860
And in that song, I'm just talking about
763
00:33:44,860 --> 00:33:47,760
how gay people are regular
people at the end of the day.
764
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:49,000
There's nothing different about us.
765
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:50,620
We love the same way.
766
00:33:50,620 --> 00:33:52,300
We bleed the same way.
767
00:33:52,300 --> 00:33:55,630
And I'm very proud of it,
because that's the first
768
00:33:55,630 --> 00:33:58,610
song that I made where I was actually
769
00:33:58,610 --> 00:34:00,850
being my true authentic self.
770
00:34:00,850 --> 00:34:02,410
I'm one of the fortunate ones,
771
00:34:02,410 --> 00:34:05,680
because my art and music
has taken me there.
772
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:10,600
So when you weigh out the
difficulties of being intersexed,
773
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:12,890
I'm blessed, and I look at the good
774
00:34:12,890 --> 00:34:15,820
things in my life, rather
than the bad things.
775
00:34:15,820 --> 00:34:17,970
It's a total package.
776
00:34:17,970 --> 00:34:20,710
I'm just very fortunate that I've,
777
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:25,170
I'm fortunate to be the person that I am.
778
00:34:26,820 --> 00:34:28,720
I'm in Fun Home, right.
779
00:34:28,720 --> 00:34:33,280
This play is about a person who masked,
780
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:36,930
a person who hid, a person
who lied with his persona
781
00:34:36,930 --> 00:34:39,450
and used other people as props.
782
00:34:39,450 --> 00:34:41,040
It's about soothsaying.
783
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,720
It's about saying deal with it.
784
00:34:43,720 --> 00:34:46,460
You know, this is actually my body.
785
00:34:46,460 --> 00:34:49,240
This is actually my identity, and I have,
786
00:34:49,240 --> 00:34:50,920
I have no rage about it.
787
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,000
And I have no apology about it.
788
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:54,180
I just have me.
789
00:34:54,180 --> 00:34:57,020
(uplifting music)
790
00:35:01,330 --> 00:35:02,590
The qualities that I look for,
791
00:35:02,590 --> 00:35:04,360
the biggest quality is a sense of humor.
792
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,050
My biggest quality I want in somebody
793
00:35:06,050 --> 00:35:08,270
is them to just be genuine with me.
794
00:35:08,270 --> 00:35:09,400
I think somebody that shares
795
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:11,400
the same values at this point.
796
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:12,700
Honesty. (laughs)
797
00:35:12,700 --> 00:35:15,190
Someone who's genuine,
someone who's honest.
798
00:35:15,190 --> 00:35:16,440
Someone that's genuine.
799
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:17,760
Everything will fall into place
800
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:19,390
once you have that genuine person.
801
00:35:19,390 --> 00:35:21,530
I find that I'm always the
one that kind of provides
802
00:35:21,530 --> 00:35:24,470
the security and the
safety in a relationship.
803
00:35:24,470 --> 00:35:25,630
And I'm looking for a little bit
804
00:35:25,630 --> 00:35:28,410
more of a complement to myself now.
805
00:35:28,410 --> 00:35:32,350
Basically somebody that
can love me the same as,
806
00:35:32,350 --> 00:35:34,920
but if not more than I love them.
807
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:36,490
Someone who loves me for me.
808
00:35:36,490 --> 00:35:39,130
Someone who understands who I am.
809
00:35:39,130 --> 00:35:40,830
I want them to be artistic.
810
00:35:40,830 --> 00:35:42,260
If you can keep me entertained
811
00:35:42,260 --> 00:35:45,210
for a little bit, I'll enjoy that.
812
00:35:45,210 --> 00:35:46,830
I want them to be self-sufficient.
813
00:35:46,830 --> 00:35:49,260
Caring, loving, kind.
814
00:35:49,260 --> 00:35:50,560
I want them to be compassionate
815
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:52,990
and considerate and adventurous.
816
00:35:52,990 --> 00:35:55,530
Someone that you would
probably do anything for.
817
00:35:55,530 --> 00:35:57,460
Within reason, legally I guess.
818
00:35:57,460 --> 00:35:59,580
For love for the right person,
819
00:35:59,580 --> 00:36:00,710
there's nothing I wouldn't do.
820
00:36:00,710 --> 00:36:02,470
My type of guy?
821
00:36:02,470 --> 00:36:04,070
I dated everything.
822
00:36:04,070 --> 00:36:05,630
You need to take care of someone,
823
00:36:05,630 --> 00:36:06,770
someone needs to take care of you.
824
00:36:06,770 --> 00:36:09,080
It's all about that companionship.
825
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:13,550
And it helps if the direction
and the goals are the same.
826
00:36:13,550 --> 00:36:14,880
Finding the common ground.
827
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,030
I like guys who are more like artistic.
828
00:36:18,030 --> 00:36:21,850
And they're into music and movies,
829
00:36:21,850 --> 00:36:24,570
preferably rock from the '70s and '80s,
830
00:36:24,570 --> 00:36:26,070
that's my kind of music, so.
831
00:36:30,030 --> 00:36:32,550
We met kind of on a
dare from my friend Joey
832
00:36:32,550 --> 00:36:36,990
at Show Tune Tuesdays at the
Loading Zone in St. Louis.
833
00:36:36,990 --> 00:36:40,640
We were talking about what
type of guys we liked.
834
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:42,270
And I was like, I don't
really have a type.
835
00:36:42,270 --> 00:36:45,830
And I look down, and in
comes this sort of Roman god,
836
00:36:45,830 --> 00:36:48,000
wearing this really tight gray shirt.
837
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:49,730
So I go down there, and I just
838
00:36:49,730 --> 00:36:52,350
kind of bump into him on purpose.
839
00:36:52,350 --> 00:36:53,510
And he turns around, I'm like,
840
00:36:53,510 --> 00:36:55,200
oh, I'm sorry, did I get anything on you?
841
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:58,360
And he's just like, hey, what's your name?
842
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,160
You know, and he was just so cool.
843
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,900
And we started making out
within like 30 seconds.
844
00:37:03,900 --> 00:37:05,520
Pretty much.
845
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,830
Yeah, and we've been together
ever since, 15 years later.
846
00:37:07,830 --> 00:37:11,170
I think that there's
a terrible stereotype
847
00:37:11,170 --> 00:37:14,540
that gay people are not monogamous,
848
00:37:14,540 --> 00:37:16,260
that that's part of their sexuality.
849
00:37:16,260 --> 00:37:19,340
And as a sex therapist, I can
tell you that is not true.
850
00:37:19,340 --> 00:37:21,840
There are many, many similarities
851
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:23,480
between gay couples and straight couples.
852
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:25,700
Their problems are kind of universal.
853
00:37:25,700 --> 00:37:27,860
Their problems are usually the same thing
854
00:37:27,860 --> 00:37:30,180
that every couple deals with.
855
00:37:30,180 --> 00:37:32,680
- We're married.
- We're married.
856
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:33,950
Two and a half years, is it?
857
00:37:33,950 --> 00:37:35,020
Well, it'd be three years in July.
858
00:37:35,020 --> 00:37:36,730
- July.
- So however that plays out.
859
00:37:36,730 --> 00:37:38,250
July 2013.
860
00:37:38,250 --> 00:37:43,250
In 1975, we, I was a
part of something called,
861
00:37:43,650 --> 00:37:45,450
and that's when it was
called gay liberation,
862
00:37:45,450 --> 00:37:49,480
and it was like a big rainbow
flag, like gay liberation.
863
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:51,540
And we were a part of something called
864
00:37:51,540 --> 00:37:53,980
the Hawaii Marriage Initiative.
865
00:37:53,980 --> 00:37:58,110
Which was so funny to me,
because we had so far to go.
866
00:37:58,110 --> 00:38:00,080
And then that's what we started out with.
867
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:01,790
It was so pie in the sky.
868
00:38:01,790 --> 00:38:03,630
Like we thought it would never happen.
869
00:38:03,630 --> 00:38:07,280
And now that it's happened,
and gay marriage is legal,
870
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:10,130
which is hilarious to
me that it would even.
871
00:38:10,130 --> 00:38:12,850
Who cares, how is it anybody's business?
872
00:38:12,850 --> 00:38:16,590
That's my biggest question.
873
00:38:16,590 --> 00:38:18,630
Is what do you care?
874
00:38:18,630 --> 00:38:20,980
If you consider yourself
a straight person,
875
00:38:20,980 --> 00:38:23,650
and somebody that you don't
know loves somebody else
876
00:38:23,650 --> 00:38:26,250
and wants to get married,
how is what somebody's doing
877
00:38:26,250 --> 00:38:29,100
across town or across the
nation, or in another state
878
00:38:29,100 --> 00:38:30,960
or another country getting married,
879
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,140
how is it any of your goddamn business?
880
00:38:33,140 --> 00:38:34,450
When I started doing matrimonial law,
881
00:38:34,450 --> 00:38:37,100
all I did was straight,
heterosexual divorces.
882
00:38:37,100 --> 00:38:38,610
'Cause that's all we had.
883
00:38:38,610 --> 00:38:41,170
Then people started getting
married in other states,
884
00:38:41,170 --> 00:38:43,850
same-sex couples in
Massachusetts, in Connecticut,
885
00:38:43,850 --> 00:38:45,730
people got married in Toronto.
886
00:38:45,730 --> 00:38:47,510
So the New York courts,
even though we would not
887
00:38:47,510 --> 00:38:52,000
marry you here in New York,
we would still divorce you.
888
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,020
So I started having same-sex couples
889
00:38:54,020 --> 00:38:56,060
come to me for their divorce.
890
00:38:56,060 --> 00:38:58,080
And I started getting known as one
891
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:00,510
of the few attorneys who did this.
892
00:39:00,510 --> 00:39:03,630
And it's interesting,
because if you would Google
893
00:39:03,630 --> 00:39:07,940
New York City gay attorney,
I would be in the top three.
894
00:39:07,940 --> 00:39:10,100
But for the last years,
if you would just Google
895
00:39:10,100 --> 00:39:12,010
New York City lesbian attorney,
896
00:39:12,010 --> 00:39:15,040
I am the number one
lesbian in New York City.
897
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:18,180
And my mother and my wife
would be so proud to know that.
898
00:39:18,180 --> 00:39:19,780
That when they click on lesbian attorney,
899
00:39:19,780 --> 00:39:21,230
my picture shows up.
900
00:39:21,230 --> 00:39:24,460
We first met because the world,
901
00:39:24,460 --> 00:39:28,540
the universe, God, karma, chi, magic,
902
00:39:28,540 --> 00:39:32,370
whatever you want to call
it, aligned our stars.
903
00:39:33,860 --> 00:39:35,520
We met on OK Cupid.
904
00:39:37,110 --> 00:39:39,200
I'll let you start with that. (laughs)
905
00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,260
Well, so it's a long and twisted story.
906
00:39:41,260 --> 00:39:43,040
We met on Twitter.
907
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:46,190
And we started vid chatting,
and we fell in love.
908
00:39:46,190 --> 00:39:48,760
Neither of us was looking for.
- No.
909
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:50,570
I was in a 28 year relationship.
910
00:39:50,570 --> 00:39:52,470
- I was 28.
- She was 28.
911
00:39:52,470 --> 00:39:55,970
So needless to say, it was
not something we had planned.
912
00:39:57,070 --> 00:40:00,050
It took some maturation
there, going through a period
913
00:40:00,050 --> 00:40:02,020
of my own adolescence, so to speak.
914
00:40:03,190 --> 00:40:05,070
Before I finally settled
down a little bit,
915
00:40:05,070 --> 00:40:07,520
and I had a much better sense
of where I wanted to end up.
916
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:11,250
And that also included being
perfectly content to be alone,
917
00:40:11,250 --> 00:40:13,350
as opposed to with the wrong person.
918
00:40:13,350 --> 00:40:16,580
So, Mark came along, and it was
919
00:40:16,580 --> 00:40:20,090
just undeniable that he was my soulmate.
920
00:40:20,090 --> 00:40:24,210
The reason why people tend
to look at us differently
921
00:40:24,210 --> 00:40:25,630
is because he's a lot older than I am.
922
00:40:25,630 --> 00:40:27,960
He's about 35 years my senior.
923
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:29,660
And he's white on top of that.
924
00:40:29,660 --> 00:40:31,740
And so it just doesn't look balanced.
925
00:40:31,740 --> 00:40:34,700
So it's funny, we'll go to
the supermarket together,
926
00:40:34,700 --> 00:40:37,540
and he'll have an item in his hand,
927
00:40:37,540 --> 00:40:38,380
I'll have an item in my hand.
928
00:40:38,380 --> 00:40:41,440
So we're in line, and the cashier
929
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:45,740
always assumes that we're not together.
930
00:40:45,740 --> 00:40:49,030
So she'll ring up Richard's stuff,
931
00:40:49,030 --> 00:40:52,060
and then she'll think that she's done.
932
00:40:52,060 --> 00:40:54,470
And I'll say oh no, you
can ring this up too.
933
00:40:54,470 --> 00:40:57,160
And she's like, oh I'm
sorry, you guys are together?
934
00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:59,260
And it just trips me out.
935
00:40:59,260 --> 00:41:00,620
Initially, I used to get annoyed at it,
936
00:41:00,620 --> 00:41:02,400
because a lot of people just assume that,
937
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,310
oh, he must be the sugar daddy.
938
00:41:05,310 --> 00:41:07,320
Maybe the younger guy is
using him for his money.
939
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:09,250
Or using him for whatever.
940
00:41:09,250 --> 00:41:12,380
So people just have
that misconceived idea.
941
00:41:12,380 --> 00:41:13,530
I don't know where they get it from.
942
00:41:13,530 --> 00:41:15,370
They just assume that these people
943
00:41:15,370 --> 00:41:16,750
can't possibly love each other.
944
00:41:16,750 --> 00:41:19,660
And that's far from the truth.
945
00:41:19,660 --> 00:41:23,800
We only had one person
react funny to that.
946
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:25,700
We spent a summer in Martha's Vinyard.
947
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:28,210
- We were at the hairdresser.
- We were at the hairdresser,
948
00:41:28,210 --> 00:41:30,280
and Liron was waiting for me.
949
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:35,280
And the woman said.
- Well she said, your mother
950
00:41:35,730 --> 00:41:37,580
or whoever got a really nice haircut.
951
00:41:37,580 --> 00:41:39,370
And I said, while
actually she's my partner.
952
00:41:39,370 --> 00:41:41,850
And I guess she didn't realize
she was doing it out loud,
953
00:41:41,850 --> 00:41:46,050
she said, oh my God.
(women laugh)
954
00:41:46,050 --> 00:41:47,420
And I burst out laughing.
955
00:41:47,420 --> 00:41:50,040
And then she all of a
sudden went, oh my God.
956
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:52,220
And I said don't worry, it's
actually one of the most
957
00:41:52,220 --> 00:41:53,800
honest responses I've ever gotten.
958
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:57,390
I kept saying to myself
that I need to take it slow.
959
00:41:57,390 --> 00:41:58,220
I need to
960
00:41:59,290 --> 00:42:02,440
really make sure that I'm going
to be with the right person.
961
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:06,750
Because I decided in my
mind that I would rather be
962
00:42:07,740 --> 00:42:11,440
with the right person
instead of with the person
963
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:13,150
I might divorce some day.
964
00:42:13,150 --> 00:42:17,280
Same-sex couples have
waited so long to get married.
965
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:20,210
And now the fact that they've got married,
966
00:42:20,210 --> 00:42:23,230
and for their spouse to have an affair
967
00:42:23,230 --> 00:42:25,380
is a complete and utter betrayal.
968
00:42:25,380 --> 00:42:28,700
That people often, more often
than not, can't get over.
969
00:42:28,700 --> 00:42:30,280
And that leads to a divorce.
970
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:31,210
I believe in love.
971
00:42:31,210 --> 00:42:35,690
But it's just, it doesn't always work out.
972
00:42:35,690 --> 00:42:38,530
A lot of the guys I dated,
they ended up marrying
973
00:42:38,530 --> 00:42:40,990
the first girl they met after me.
974
00:42:40,990 --> 00:42:42,440
Just about every one of them.
975
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:46,050
Just about every one of them.
976
00:42:46,050 --> 00:42:50,670
And it made me feel less, because, okay,
977
00:42:52,210 --> 00:42:54,150
they love me, but I'm not enough?
978
00:42:55,730 --> 00:42:59,240
That's hard, when you don't
feel like you're enough
979
00:42:59,240 --> 00:43:02,110
to please the person that you're with.
980
00:43:02,110 --> 00:43:04,930
My father, God rest his soul,
would say if there's a man
981
00:43:04,930 --> 00:43:09,350
out there who's an
asshole, you can find him.
982
00:43:09,350 --> 00:43:12,170
And sort of that has really remained true.
983
00:43:14,180 --> 00:43:15,580
Does that sound pathetic?
984
00:43:15,580 --> 00:43:17,340
(laughs)
985
00:43:17,340 --> 00:43:20,560
We had a case recently
where a married couple,
986
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:22,660
it was a heterosexual couple.
987
00:43:22,660 --> 00:43:24,930
The man transitioned to a woman,
988
00:43:24,930 --> 00:43:27,420
and then they ultimately got divorced.
989
00:43:27,420 --> 00:43:28,640
They had a dog, Paco.
990
00:43:29,860 --> 00:43:31,220
A little Yorkie.
991
00:43:31,220 --> 00:43:33,530
And we handled a custody case over Paco.
992
00:43:34,570 --> 00:43:39,570
My client argued that the
dog would not recognize
993
00:43:39,740 --> 00:43:43,300
the transgendered partner,
and therefore it would not
994
00:43:43,300 --> 00:43:45,390
be in the dog's best interest to be
995
00:43:45,390 --> 00:43:48,110
with the transgendered partner.
996
00:43:48,110 --> 00:43:51,050
I advised her not to put
forth that argument in court.
997
00:43:51,050 --> 00:43:52,990
Because she was hurt, she was angry.
998
00:43:52,990 --> 00:43:56,830
The man that she married
transitioned to a woman.
999
00:43:56,830 --> 00:43:58,180
She felt betrayed.
1000
00:43:58,180 --> 00:44:02,780
She wanted to use the dog to hurt her ex.
1001
00:44:02,780 --> 00:44:05,320
I got her the dog on different grounds.
1002
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:10,320
I hired a flash mob, 16 dancers.
1003
00:44:10,380 --> 00:44:12,810
On the big day, we were
all going to brunch
1004
00:44:12,810 --> 00:44:15,210
down near the Gansevoort Plaza there.
1005
00:44:15,210 --> 00:44:18,380
I totally surprised him, and
you will see the surprise,
1006
00:44:18,380 --> 00:44:20,750
but the whole time I kept
standing and thinking,
1007
00:44:20,750 --> 00:44:22,680
surely he knows what's going on, right.
1008
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:27,320
And, it was about all I could
do to just keep a poker face.
1009
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:29,900
(upbeat music)
1010
00:44:51,350 --> 00:44:53,240
It went very well.
1011
00:44:53,240 --> 00:44:54,810
It did go fairly well.
1012
00:44:54,810 --> 00:44:57,340
Well, I've been together
with my partner for about
1013
00:44:57,340 --> 00:44:59,450
14 years now believe it or not.
1014
00:44:59,450 --> 00:45:01,650
We've been together 11 years.
1015
00:45:01,650 --> 00:45:02,690
We're not married.
1016
00:45:03,860 --> 00:45:05,410
Do you want to talk about that?
1017
00:45:05,410 --> 00:45:06,720
(women laugh)
1018
00:45:06,720 --> 00:45:07,990
He is my family.
1019
00:45:07,990 --> 00:45:10,210
And what he's done for me,
1020
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:13,310
the way he's forgiven me and supported me,
1021
00:45:13,310 --> 00:45:16,050
you know, in all my ups
and downs, that is family.
1022
00:45:16,050 --> 00:45:17,230
And it's nice to know at least
1023
00:45:17,230 --> 00:45:18,550
at some point in life I got it.
1024
00:45:18,550 --> 00:45:21,930
You know, I'm 41 now,
and I really get it now.
1025
00:45:21,930 --> 00:45:23,670
But, better late than never.
1026
00:45:25,240 --> 00:45:26,570
I mean, in a perfect world, yes,
1027
00:45:26,570 --> 00:45:29,060
I'd love to be in a relationship,
and I'd love to do that.
1028
00:45:29,060 --> 00:45:32,590
But I don't think I'm ready for that yet.
1029
00:45:32,590 --> 00:45:36,680
And because I've hidden this for so long,
1030
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:40,340
and because I was ashamed for so long,
1031
00:45:40,340 --> 00:45:45,340
it is hard for me to
comprehend someone loving me.
1032
00:45:49,070 --> 00:45:53,800
I need to get further along
down the road up here, and,
1033
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:54,930
(laughs) here.
1034
00:45:54,930 --> 00:45:57,430
I have a great partner in my life.
1035
00:45:57,430 --> 00:46:01,090
I think we all struggle
for that one true person.
1036
00:46:01,090 --> 00:46:02,990
And I have found that person.
1037
00:46:02,990 --> 00:46:07,800
And it's taken a long time,
because of my situation
1038
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:11,840
to get somebody that was, you
know, truthful and honest,
1039
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:16,640
and was open enough to
understand people are different.
1040
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:20,010
And no matter how different people are,
1041
00:46:20,010 --> 00:46:22,430
everybody wants to be loved.
1042
00:46:22,430 --> 00:46:24,890
I don't know that it was
ever a conscious decision
1043
00:46:24,890 --> 00:46:26,420
to start supporting gay rights.
1044
00:46:26,420 --> 00:46:31,420
But I knew a lot of gay people
growing up in the theater.
1045
00:46:31,820 --> 00:46:34,370
And my sister's actually gay.
1046
00:46:34,370 --> 00:46:35,790
But I knew that she was gay before
1047
00:46:35,790 --> 00:46:37,980
she knew that she was gay.
1048
00:46:37,980 --> 00:46:39,680
And she's never been an activist.
1049
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:41,080
It's so interesting
because there are a lot
1050
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:43,040
of gay people that just
aren't gay activists,
1051
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:44,470
which is interesting to me.
1052
00:46:44,470 --> 00:46:47,080
Well, when I first started
working at NYU 35 years ago,
1053
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:48,860
the law school student
government was putting together
1054
00:46:48,860 --> 00:46:52,590
the very first ever Law and
the Fight for Gay Rights
1055
00:46:52,590 --> 00:46:54,720
conference that the kids were doing.
1056
00:46:54,720 --> 00:46:57,680
And it was supported
by the administration,
1057
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:01,920
but it was, financially,
and sort of speaking out
1058
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:03,710
of the side of the mouth we support it.
1059
00:47:03,710 --> 00:47:05,040
But,
1060
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:06,510
there were people who really didn't
1061
00:47:06,510 --> 00:47:07,620
think it was a great idea.
1062
00:47:07,620 --> 00:47:10,750
And really didn't necessarily
want NYU Law School,
1063
00:47:10,750 --> 00:47:13,020
no matter how liberal
their reputation was,
1064
00:47:13,020 --> 00:47:15,640
to be putting out there
to talk about issues.
1065
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:18,170
I mean, you've gotta
remember the sodomy laws
1066
00:47:18,170 --> 00:47:21,410
were still different, very different.
1067
00:47:21,410 --> 00:47:24,780
And it was six months out from
being considered a disorder.
1068
00:47:24,780 --> 00:47:26,880
I mean, I could be out, I came to New York
1069
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:29,280
at that time to be out,
and I was out at work.
1070
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:33,540
But it's apples and oranges to
think about then versus now.
1071
00:47:33,540 --> 00:47:35,960
Having gay marriage taken away, to me,
1072
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:37,350
could be done in the blink of an eye.
1073
00:47:37,350 --> 00:47:40,670
What's happened now in
America, the polarization of,
1074
00:47:40,670 --> 00:47:42,910
we're living in two separate countries.
1075
00:47:42,910 --> 00:47:47,820
And if the country that
is very, very anti-gay,
1076
00:47:47,820 --> 00:47:51,200
anti-choice, anti-women wins,
1077
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:53,510
we're in for a huge, huge backlash.
1078
00:47:53,510 --> 00:47:55,810
I'm Andrew Tobias, please call me Andy.
1079
00:47:55,810 --> 00:47:58,600
And I write books, magazine articles,
1080
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:00,940
but mostly ask people for
money for the Democrats.
1081
00:48:00,940 --> 00:48:02,320
I've been treasurer of the Democratic
1082
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:04,160
National Committee for the last 17 years.
1083
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:05,840
We've been going forward beautifully.
1084
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:07,510
Can we go backward, sure.
1085
00:48:07,510 --> 00:48:09,860
I don't think it's gonna happen in the US,
1086
00:48:09,860 --> 00:48:12,750
because it's hard to close people's
1087
00:48:12,750 --> 00:48:14,520
hearts and minds once they've been open.
1088
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:17,600
But it's not hard to change
laws and to overturn,
1089
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:22,460
you know, the election
coming up, as we're talking,
1090
00:48:22,460 --> 00:48:24,410
will determine the character
of the Supreme Court.
1091
00:48:24,410 --> 00:48:26,900
Either far more right wing than it is now,
1092
00:48:26,900 --> 00:48:29,270
or far more progressive than it is now
1093
00:48:29,270 --> 00:48:30,560
for the next 20 or 30 years.
1094
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:32,070
I mean, look at Roe v. Wade.
1095
00:48:32,070 --> 00:48:35,340
It's systematically been chipped away at.
1096
00:48:35,340 --> 00:48:37,590
If it's not completely been taken away,
1097
00:48:37,590 --> 00:48:42,330
it's basically been made
moot for so many people.
1098
00:48:42,330 --> 00:48:43,390
So many women.
1099
00:48:43,390 --> 00:48:45,530
The problem with the doctors nowadays,
1100
00:48:45,530 --> 00:48:48,790
they're given a license to become God.
1101
00:48:48,790 --> 00:48:52,630
And they make the decision
there, at the hospital.
1102
00:48:52,630 --> 00:48:56,990
So, if genitalia is not what
it's supposed to look like,
1103
00:48:56,990 --> 00:49:00,760
if it's deformed or, as they call it,
1104
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:04,100
mutilation of this is what happens.
1105
00:49:04,100 --> 00:49:06,430
They decide the sex.
1106
00:49:06,430 --> 00:49:09,880
And that's how there is so much confusion
1107
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:11,590
of when it comes to intersex.
1108
00:49:11,590 --> 00:49:13,880
There's many intersex people out there
1109
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:16,490
that are given a bill of rights
1110
00:49:16,490 --> 00:49:21,040
to believe they were one
way, but as they grow older,
1111
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:23,020
they don't understand at first
1112
00:49:23,020 --> 00:49:24,740
that they're supposed to be another way.
1113
00:49:24,740 --> 00:49:27,380
And a lot of the doctors
still believe that it's okay
1114
00:49:27,380 --> 00:49:29,000
for them to make this decision.
1115
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:31,070
I believe the intersex community is,
1116
00:49:31,070 --> 00:49:32,820
that's the big thing they fight for.
1117
00:49:32,820 --> 00:49:34,830
Don't do anything, leave it alone.
1118
00:49:34,830 --> 00:49:37,270
Some people just want to be left that way.
1119
00:49:37,270 --> 00:49:42,090
Others might want to make their
decision later on, as I did.
1120
00:49:42,090 --> 00:49:47,090
We were at a rally for the
center in West Hollywood.
1121
00:49:48,100 --> 00:49:50,990
And we were standing there with friends.
1122
00:49:50,990 --> 00:49:53,810
And at just that right
moment, we were holding hands,
1123
00:49:53,810 --> 00:49:58,810
in front of the LGBT
thing, announcing thing.
1124
00:49:59,330 --> 00:50:00,810
You know, we can now marry.
1125
00:50:00,810 --> 00:50:04,620
And all of a sudden this
swarm of photographers
1126
00:50:04,620 --> 00:50:06,790
came running at us.
- Right here.
1127
00:50:06,790 --> 00:50:08,840
And zeroed in on our hands.
1128
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:10,590
Like, (imitates camera sounds)
1129
00:50:10,590 --> 00:50:13,130
by the tons, just oh, oh,
oh, oh, thanks for noticing
1130
00:50:13,130 --> 00:50:15,110
that I want a picture
of that kind of a thing.
1131
00:50:15,110 --> 00:50:17,340
We ended up on the cover of the LA times.
1132
00:50:17,340 --> 00:50:18,530
Yeah, there's a group
called Queer Nation.
1133
00:50:18,530 --> 00:50:20,550
I was one of the first people to join it.
1134
00:50:20,550 --> 00:50:22,440
It was a spinoff of a group called
1135
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:24,790
ACT UP that I was active in.
1136
00:50:24,790 --> 00:50:26,730
And I had a boyfriend at the time.
1137
00:50:26,730 --> 00:50:29,600
Our thing was that he would
put his hand in my hip pocket.
1138
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:30,770
We wouldn't hold hands on the street.
1139
00:50:30,770 --> 00:50:32,510
But he would put his
hand in my hip pocket.
1140
00:50:32,510 --> 00:50:35,040
I will tell you that we did that as much
1141
00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:37,430
as a public display of affection
1142
00:50:37,430 --> 00:50:41,470
as we did to be rebellious,
as a political statement.
1143
00:50:41,470 --> 00:50:43,460
And it got a lot of looks.
1144
00:50:43,460 --> 00:50:46,150
I mean, the idea of two
guys walking down the street
1145
00:50:46,150 --> 00:50:49,890
with a hand in a pocket, or
holding hands in 1990, in 1991
1146
00:50:49,890 --> 00:50:52,470
was vastly different than it is today.
1147
00:50:53,430 --> 00:50:56,080
On the campus at NYU,
it was vastly different.
1148
00:50:56,080 --> 00:50:58,550
It was not the norm, if you will.
1149
00:50:58,550 --> 00:51:00,920
It was not even easy.
1150
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:01,910
I got to go to China.
1151
00:51:01,910 --> 00:51:04,370
And I told the vice president of China,
1152
00:51:04,370 --> 00:51:07,910
and a good chunk of the
leadership of the Communist Party
1153
00:51:07,910 --> 00:51:10,690
that I was one of the
three openly gay officers
1154
00:51:10,690 --> 00:51:12,500
of the Democratic National Committee.
1155
00:51:12,500 --> 00:51:15,490
There are nine of us, so a
third of us are openly LGBT.
1156
00:51:15,490 --> 00:51:19,380
How many of your officers
in China are openly gay?
1157
00:51:19,380 --> 00:51:20,910
You know, so I came out to China.
1158
00:51:20,910 --> 00:51:22,460
I still have North Korea to go.
1159
00:51:22,460 --> 00:51:24,960
And you know, lots of other places.
1160
00:51:24,960 --> 00:51:27,450
The thing about labeling
yourself as a lesbian,
1161
00:51:27,450 --> 00:51:30,280
even if you are attracted
to men or whatever,
1162
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:33,240
I think it's a political statement still.
1163
00:51:33,240 --> 00:51:36,580
My main label in life
has always been feminist.
1164
00:51:36,580 --> 00:51:38,270
That's the most important thing to me.
1165
00:51:38,270 --> 00:51:40,670
And I realized it's not
attached to any sexuality,
1166
00:51:40,670 --> 00:51:43,060
or anything sexual, but that is so
1167
00:51:43,060 --> 00:51:46,690
secondary to me than being a feminist.
1168
00:51:46,690 --> 00:51:49,170
Because I think the feminist label enables
1169
00:51:49,170 --> 00:51:52,260
everything else to have
freedom and breathe.
1170
00:51:52,260 --> 00:51:56,440
I'm a feminist, so part
of of my feminist journey
1171
00:51:56,440 --> 00:52:01,440
was to identify all oppressed
groups, all injustice,
1172
00:52:02,550 --> 00:52:04,790
all unfairness, all inequality.
1173
00:52:04,790 --> 00:52:07,800
And homosexuality certainly fit into that.
1174
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:09,550
I label myself as a lesbian.
1175
00:52:09,550 --> 00:52:13,850
But part of that label is
definitely a political label.
1176
00:52:14,740 --> 00:52:16,600
Part of it is obviously a sexual label.
1177
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:19,930
But most of it is where I stand in terms
1178
00:52:19,930 --> 00:52:24,600
of feminism and equality,
and loving other women.
1179
00:52:26,650 --> 00:52:31,040
My oldest, when he turned
19, he actually came out.
1180
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:33,310
And,
1181
00:52:34,820 --> 00:52:35,990
I was thrilled.
1182
00:52:35,990 --> 00:52:39,660
It was, to me, I was just so happy to have
1183
00:52:39,660 --> 00:52:43,190
my son come out at 19,
and not at 41 like me.
1184
00:52:43,190 --> 00:52:46,500
And not have to go
through all the heartache,
1185
00:52:46,500 --> 00:52:49,910
and all the stuff that I went through.
1186
00:52:49,910 --> 00:52:52,810
I had a very interesting childhood.
1187
00:52:52,810 --> 00:52:55,340
I have no memory of my parents together.
1188
00:52:56,580 --> 00:53:00,180
No memories where I wasn't
going between two homes.
1189
00:53:00,180 --> 00:53:04,370
And my dad is also gay, was also gay.
1190
00:53:06,020 --> 00:53:10,590
And my dad was with his
partner for 25 years.
1191
00:53:10,590 --> 00:53:12,500
And he's doing very well.
1192
00:53:12,500 --> 00:53:14,890
I think having a mother who's gay
1193
00:53:15,850 --> 00:53:17,860
made it a little easier for him.
1194
00:53:18,700 --> 00:53:22,950
I found out in high
school, after I came out.
1195
00:53:22,950 --> 00:53:27,950
And in conversations with
friends of my dad's that,
1196
00:53:28,990 --> 00:53:33,050
when I was younger, he said to many people
1197
00:53:33,050 --> 00:53:38,050
that my only wish is that my
son doesn't turn out like me.
1198
00:53:39,700 --> 00:53:44,490
My son actually came
out when he was about 14.
1199
00:53:46,380 --> 00:53:49,280
I knew he was gay long before that.
1200
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:51,480
I think he probably did too.
1201
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:54,100
I knew it back when we
lived in Pennsylvania.
1202
00:53:54,100 --> 00:53:56,930
That's one of the main
reasons I moved to New York.
1203
00:53:56,930 --> 00:53:59,410
Was so that he would have some place
1204
00:53:59,410 --> 00:54:02,590
that was a little more
open, so that he would
1205
00:54:02,590 --> 00:54:04,940
be more accepted and not be picked on.
1206
00:54:04,940 --> 00:54:06,980
Times are different now.
1207
00:54:06,980 --> 00:54:09,060
I think it was just a fear.
1208
00:54:09,060 --> 00:54:12,420
It was a fear that maybe we
were living, or what school
1209
00:54:12,420 --> 00:54:15,930
I was going to, or what kids
were around at the time,
1210
00:54:15,930 --> 00:54:19,810
would they pick on me,
would I be bullied ever.
1211
00:54:19,810 --> 00:54:21,140
You know, just,
1212
00:54:23,170 --> 00:54:26,050
what would my experience
be as a young gay person.
1213
00:54:26,050 --> 00:54:30,450
It worked out very
well for the most part.
1214
00:54:30,450 --> 00:54:34,210
He went to high school in a small town.
1215
00:54:34,210 --> 00:54:37,910
And there were other gays there.
1216
00:54:37,910 --> 00:54:41,140
What the young 'uns tell me
is that labels are fluid now.
1217
00:54:41,140 --> 00:54:42,750
They also tell me that they can't remember
1218
00:54:42,750 --> 00:54:44,110
a time that they weren't out.
1219
00:54:44,110 --> 00:54:47,220
I mean, I have friends
who are parents to kids
1220
00:54:47,220 --> 00:54:49,430
who are five and six
years old who just assume
1221
00:54:49,430 --> 00:54:54,430
that their young boys are gay,
or their girls are lesbian,
1222
00:54:54,580 --> 00:54:56,810
or you know, possibly even trans.
1223
00:54:56,810 --> 00:55:01,110
I mean, it's just, parenting
is a different animal now.
1224
00:55:01,110 --> 00:55:04,400
And I'm lucky, because where I work seems
1225
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:05,960
to be populated with a lot of people
1226
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:08,450
who were nurtured in that way these days.
1227
00:55:08,450 --> 00:55:10,910
Then when he moved to San Francisco,
1228
00:55:11,810 --> 00:55:14,840
he got into a serious relationship.
1229
00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:16,980
They get along very well.
1230
00:55:16,980 --> 00:55:18,720
In fact, they were married today.
1231
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:23,770
They have a wonderful marriage,
he's a wonderful son-in-law.
1232
00:55:23,770 --> 00:55:25,970
He had a beautiful wedding,
as wonderful wedding.
1233
00:55:25,970 --> 00:55:27,020
A church wedding.
1234
00:55:27,020 --> 00:55:28,230
I was there.
1235
00:55:29,110 --> 00:55:32,260
The Franciscan people are wonderful.
1236
00:55:32,260 --> 00:55:35,410
They have no problems with gay people.
1237
00:55:35,410 --> 00:55:38,810
They just accept them totally.
1238
00:55:38,810 --> 00:55:40,200
My parents are great.
1239
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:42,950
I feel very lucky.
1240
00:55:42,950 --> 00:55:45,840
They live in Austin, and
everything about their lives
1241
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:48,270
kind of forces them to accept it.
1242
00:55:48,270 --> 00:55:51,680
It's so different when
it's your kid that does it.
1243
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:53,370
And it's still hard to go back,
1244
00:55:53,370 --> 00:55:55,950
because they have a lot of
trouble with my new name.
1245
00:55:55,950 --> 00:55:58,650
They have a lot of
trouble with the gender.
1246
00:55:58,650 --> 00:56:00,590
My parents are getting
to know someone very new.
1247
00:56:00,590 --> 00:56:02,440
And it's taking time.
1248
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:05,420
You know, 'cause they knew
me from the beginning.
1249
00:56:05,420 --> 00:56:07,240
Once puberty hit, it was like,
1250
00:56:07,240 --> 00:56:09,340
now you're gonna wear
makeup, and you're gonna,
1251
00:56:09,340 --> 00:56:10,880
you know, take after your mom.
1252
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:12,790
My mom is a country music singer.
1253
00:56:12,790 --> 00:56:16,020
I really didn't even
get the fact that I just
1254
00:56:16,020 --> 00:56:17,510
was a different kind of person.
1255
00:56:17,510 --> 00:56:19,630
You know, I just thought,
well, I look like her, sort of.
1256
00:56:19,630 --> 00:56:21,080
I look kind of more like my dad.
1257
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:22,390
But I look like my mom too.
1258
00:56:22,390 --> 00:56:25,220
And you know, if I put on
a dress and I stand there
1259
00:56:26,140 --> 00:56:28,650
in front of a microphone
at the county fair,
1260
00:56:28,650 --> 00:56:30,550
I'd feel like an alien.
1261
00:56:30,550 --> 00:56:32,750
I just don't feel right.
1262
00:56:32,750 --> 00:56:34,660
I also watched Bewitched.
1263
00:56:34,660 --> 00:56:39,280
And I always wished that I had her powers.
1264
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:40,740
The (chimes tinkle) twinkle,
1265
00:56:40,740 --> 00:56:43,000
I can't even do it, but the
way she crinkles her nose.
1266
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:46,200
Because I thought it would be so cool
1267
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:49,050
to transform myself into a girl.
1268
00:56:49,050 --> 00:56:53,020
And spend an hour, spend
however long I could as a girl.
1269
00:56:53,020 --> 00:56:56,050
And then I could twitch my
nose, again, I won't do it,
1270
00:56:56,050 --> 00:56:58,670
and no one would ever
know I'd made the change.
1271
00:56:58,670 --> 00:57:00,780
This process that I'm going through now,
1272
00:57:00,780 --> 00:57:03,530
I was going through when I was
10 years old, 12 years old.
1273
00:57:03,530 --> 00:57:05,110
And I see all these different moments,
1274
00:57:05,110 --> 00:57:07,580
where I look backwards, and I
go, oh my God, look at that.
1275
00:57:07,580 --> 00:57:11,370
Like, that, there's definitely
a path to where I got to now.
1276
00:57:11,370 --> 00:57:15,750
I never doubted my parents' love for me.
1277
00:57:15,750 --> 00:57:17,190
And they made that very clear.
1278
00:57:17,190 --> 00:57:20,030
And so I always felt
supported and I felt safe.
1279
00:57:20,950 --> 00:57:21,790
And a lot of kids don't.
1280
00:57:21,790 --> 00:57:25,270
So I felt very lucky growing
up to have that support.
1281
00:57:26,430 --> 00:57:29,690
You have to be open, you have to be.
1282
00:57:29,690 --> 00:57:31,540
If you don't, you'll lose your child.
1283
00:57:33,140 --> 00:57:33,970
You'll lose him.
1284
00:57:37,790 --> 00:57:40,620
(uplifting music)
1285
00:57:42,990 --> 00:57:44,930
Am I in love right now?
1286
00:57:44,930 --> 00:57:46,940
Not necessarily.
- Yes.
1287
00:57:46,940 --> 00:57:49,160
- Not currently, no.
- Currently, right?
1288
00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:50,480
Yes, I am.
1289
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:52,500
I am so in love right now.
1290
00:57:52,500 --> 00:57:54,380
- Yeah.
- Valentine's Day's coming up.
1291
00:57:54,380 --> 00:57:59,380
But, yeah, I am not in love
with anybody at the moment.
1292
00:57:59,480 --> 00:58:03,050
Me and my husband have
been married for 32 years.
1293
00:58:03,050 --> 00:58:05,380
I'm getting over two
relationships right now.
1294
00:58:05,380 --> 00:58:07,040
I love him so much.
1295
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:10,050
He just, I mean, just thinking
about him can make me cry.
1296
00:58:10,050 --> 00:58:11,940
I don't believe in relationships.
1297
00:58:11,940 --> 00:58:13,110
Probably never will.
1298
00:58:13,110 --> 00:58:14,680
And am I in love right now?
1299
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:17,430
I am, with my partner for 21 years.
1300
00:58:17,430 --> 00:58:19,590
I would really love
to think that I was able
1301
00:58:19,590 --> 00:58:23,520
to fall in love with
somebody, regardless of how
1302
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:25,750
I labeled myself or how
they labeled themselves.
1303
00:58:25,750 --> 00:58:27,270
Married four years ago.
1304
00:58:27,270 --> 00:58:29,610
I met him on the street,
and I just asked him out.
1305
00:58:29,610 --> 00:58:33,530
I see love as for everything.
1306
00:58:33,530 --> 00:58:35,840
And not just like in
terms of relationship.
1307
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:37,980
I think I look for a very strong,
1308
00:58:37,980 --> 00:58:39,960
complementary friendship.
1309
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:43,130
Like a partnership where you can grow
1310
00:58:43,130 --> 00:58:44,550
and support each other.
1311
00:58:44,550 --> 00:58:47,060
I think that I'm attracted to a soul.
1312
00:58:47,060 --> 00:58:50,240
I would like to think that
if I fell in love with a man,
1313
00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:51,890
I would be comfortable enough with myself
1314
00:58:51,890 --> 00:58:55,520
to say I fell in love with
this person, that's it.
1315
00:58:55,520 --> 00:58:58,450
It's about the connection,
the love, you know.
1316
00:58:58,450 --> 00:59:00,530
Like, how we are together.
1317
00:59:00,530 --> 00:59:02,090
That's all that really matters.
1318
00:59:03,640 --> 00:59:07,140
Most pain that people
feel around their gender
1319
00:59:07,140 --> 00:59:09,960
identification or around their sexual
1320
00:59:09,960 --> 00:59:13,430
pleasure identification
has to do with not being
1321
00:59:13,430 --> 00:59:16,910
able to be the biologic
person that they are.
1322
00:59:16,910 --> 00:59:19,270
And I find these are the people
that will come to therapy,
1323
00:59:19,270 --> 00:59:20,880
because they're in terrible pain.
1324
00:59:20,880 --> 00:59:25,880
His dad was not okay with
it, when he first found out.
1325
00:59:26,100 --> 00:59:28,590
And he, he called me one night and said,
1326
00:59:28,590 --> 00:59:31,150
you know, I'm really,
I'm not okay with this.
1327
00:59:31,150 --> 00:59:34,460
And I said, well, you really
need to be okay with this.
1328
00:59:34,460 --> 00:59:36,740
You know, whether you like it or not.
1329
00:59:36,740 --> 00:59:39,090
You really need to accept
that this is who your son is.
1330
00:59:39,090 --> 00:59:40,260
And I said, you know what,
1331
00:59:40,260 --> 00:59:43,090
a lot of kids his age, especially boys,
1332
00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:47,960
commit suicide because
they're not accepted.
1333
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:50,170
Especially by their parents.
1334
00:59:50,170 --> 00:59:52,960
So I said, you better find
a way to be okay with it.
1335
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:57,160
I don't understand a parent
1336
00:59:57,160 --> 00:59:59,850
who can turn their back on a child,
1337
01:00:00,740 --> 01:00:02,660
once they find out they're gay.
1338
01:00:02,660 --> 01:00:06,300
I can't understand a
parent who can't sense it.
1339
01:00:06,300 --> 01:00:09,340
Who doesn't see it, recognize it.
1340
01:00:10,250 --> 01:00:14,840
And I just can't imagine what a child
1341
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:18,130
must go through when
their parent rejects them.
1342
01:00:18,130 --> 01:00:21,190
I just can't fathom
what that must be like.
1343
01:00:21,190 --> 01:00:23,810
I started drinking
and doing lots of drugs,
1344
01:00:23,810 --> 01:00:27,600
and became very destructive,
and I did try to kill myself.
1345
01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:30,790
I just tried to end it,
'cause I kept doing things
1346
01:00:30,790 --> 01:00:32,480
that I didn't love about myself,
1347
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:35,810
and just kept really
separating from who I was.
1348
01:00:35,810 --> 01:00:38,590
And then I sobered up,
I'm seven years sober.
1349
01:00:38,590 --> 01:00:40,100
And then transitioned.
1350
01:00:40,100 --> 01:00:43,690
And I feel like I'm in a time in my life
1351
01:00:43,690 --> 01:00:45,760
where I'm figuring out who I am,
1352
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:47,230
and falling in love with myself.
1353
01:00:47,230 --> 01:00:51,090
And doing respectable acts to myself.
1354
01:00:51,090 --> 01:00:53,720
So that that love can
be there a little more.
1355
01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:55,870
I have an identical twin brother.
1356
01:00:55,870 --> 01:01:00,100
And today, I would say he's
one of my greatest allies
1357
01:01:00,100 --> 01:01:02,880
when it comes to begin
gay and being an activist.
1358
01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:07,200
And being exactly who I am.
1359
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:10,890
But growing up, he was
one of my biggest bullies.
1360
01:01:10,890 --> 01:01:12,890
I see character flaws in him
1361
01:01:12,890 --> 01:01:15,460
that make me wonder about myself.
1362
01:01:15,460 --> 01:01:17,940
And I think growing up then,
1363
01:01:18,850 --> 01:01:21,590
when he knew that I was
gay, he saw something
1364
01:01:21,590 --> 01:01:25,090
maybe in himself, or was
afraid that there might
1365
01:01:25,090 --> 01:01:29,360
be something that was different
and not okay with himself.
1366
01:01:29,360 --> 01:01:32,190
And that became antagonistic.
1367
01:01:32,190 --> 01:01:35,450
I'm very concerned about the high rate
1368
01:01:35,450 --> 01:01:38,970
of homelessness among the LGBT population.
1369
01:01:38,970 --> 01:01:41,690
40% of the youth homeless are LGBT.
1370
01:01:41,690 --> 01:01:43,780
We're hardly 40% of the population.
1371
01:01:43,780 --> 01:01:47,810
My work at the Los Angeles
LGBT Center is super cool.
1372
01:01:47,810 --> 01:01:50,530
We're the biggest LGBT
organization on the planet.
1373
01:01:50,530 --> 01:01:54,020
And we save homeless
youth, and we have housing
1374
01:01:54,020 --> 01:01:55,540
for homeless youth and seniors.
1375
01:01:55,540 --> 01:01:58,850
And we have all kinds of programs,
and transgender programs.
1376
01:01:58,850 --> 01:02:01,230
And it's an amazing place,
1377
01:02:01,230 --> 01:02:04,230
it's almost a $90 million organization.
1378
01:02:04,230 --> 01:02:06,410
And we're about to build a huge campus
1379
01:02:06,410 --> 01:02:09,290
where we can house more people who need,
1380
01:02:09,290 --> 01:02:10,470
get them off the streets.
1381
01:02:10,470 --> 01:02:13,400
And we have, of all the
homeless youth on the street
1382
01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:17,060
at any night in Los Angeles,
40% are gay or LGBT.
1383
01:02:17,990 --> 01:02:20,160
And mostly because they've been
thrown out of their houses.
1384
01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:22,350
So it's not easy.
1385
01:02:22,350 --> 01:02:24,940
There's a lot of family
discord that comes about.
1386
01:02:24,940 --> 01:02:27,120
And people used to hide
these things in the past,
1387
01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:28,570
now it's all out in the open.
1388
01:02:28,570 --> 01:02:30,680
Today, I think we have
a new set of issues.
1389
01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:33,190
Because things are more out in the open.
1390
01:02:33,190 --> 01:02:36,100
So, you know, I see a
lot, I work with a lot
1391
01:02:36,100 --> 01:02:40,140
of transgender people, I see
the struggles that they have,
1392
01:02:40,140 --> 01:02:42,540
not getting beaten up
on the street at night.
1393
01:02:42,540 --> 01:02:46,810
I think probably when we weren't
talking about it as much,
1394
01:02:46,810 --> 01:02:49,280
people could hide a little bit more.
1395
01:02:49,280 --> 01:02:50,900
I love that we can talk about it.
1396
01:02:50,900 --> 01:02:53,520
I love that people have role models now,
1397
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:54,720
and people they can go to.
1398
01:02:54,720 --> 01:02:56,490
And that's very positive.
1399
01:02:56,490 --> 01:02:59,250
It's just that now we have to figure out
1400
01:02:59,250 --> 01:03:00,810
how to keep people safer.
1401
01:03:00,810 --> 01:03:02,250
Which has been really interesting,
1402
01:03:02,250 --> 01:03:04,290
getting friend requests on Facebook,
1403
01:03:04,290 --> 01:03:06,790
especially of young girls saying,
we don't have role models,
1404
01:03:06,790 --> 01:03:08,820
we don't have anyone that represents us.
1405
01:03:08,820 --> 01:03:10,060
And I have a lot of questions.
1406
01:03:10,060 --> 01:03:15,010
And one recently friended me
and said, can I talk to you?
1407
01:03:15,010 --> 01:03:16,280
And I said, yes.
1408
01:03:16,280 --> 01:03:19,010
And she said, I will when I feel safe.
1409
01:03:19,010 --> 01:03:19,910
I said, I understand that, honey,
1410
01:03:19,910 --> 01:03:21,820
and just know that it's
always safe with me.
1411
01:03:21,820 --> 01:03:23,630
You can ask me anything.
1412
01:03:23,630 --> 01:03:26,240
And she said, I think I'm gay
1413
01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:29,320
but I don't know, and I'm scared.
1414
01:03:29,320 --> 01:03:31,210
And I said, don't be scared, it's okay.
1415
01:03:31,210 --> 01:03:33,980
And maybe, you know, as
you're young, as you learn,
1416
01:03:33,980 --> 01:03:35,800
maybe you're not, maybe you're bisexual.
1417
01:03:35,800 --> 01:03:38,710
Maybe you are, it's okay, whichever.
1418
01:03:38,710 --> 01:03:43,640
I come to find out her fear
was she lives in Dubai.
1419
01:03:43,640 --> 01:03:46,310
Where it's illegal to be gay.
1420
01:03:46,310 --> 01:03:48,410
And to be able to say something out loud,
1421
01:03:48,410 --> 01:03:52,300
or even in just a message
was a big deal for her.
1422
01:03:52,300 --> 01:03:54,060
When I first had a word for what I was,
1423
01:03:54,060 --> 01:03:56,950
I was probably 11 years old.
1424
01:03:56,950 --> 01:04:00,210
I was in the bathroom,
listening to Madonna,
1425
01:04:00,210 --> 01:04:04,070
and I saw myself in the
mirror, and I said, I'm gay.
1426
01:04:04,070 --> 01:04:06,560
Like, and in that moment, it was relief,
1427
01:04:06,560 --> 01:04:09,750
but it was also kind of devastating,
1428
01:04:09,750 --> 01:04:12,430
because the narrative in
the Ozarks, where I grew up,
1429
01:04:12,430 --> 01:04:14,860
was basically if you were gay,
1430
01:04:14,860 --> 01:04:17,710
you would get AIDS and you would die.
1431
01:04:17,710 --> 01:04:20,490
And in that moment, I
accepted that as my fate.
1432
01:04:20,490 --> 01:04:24,150
I think people in
that era were too afraid
1433
01:04:24,150 --> 01:04:27,010
to admit to be gay or
admit to have interest
1434
01:04:27,010 --> 01:04:29,690
in same-gender relationships because AIDS
1435
01:04:29,690 --> 01:04:32,110
was associated with
same-gender relationships.
1436
01:04:32,110 --> 01:04:34,610
And that meant that they didn't
want people to fear them.
1437
01:04:34,610 --> 01:04:37,610
I didn't know that I could be married
1438
01:04:37,610 --> 01:04:39,770
and have a goal for later in life.
1439
01:04:39,770 --> 01:04:41,560
- And have children.
- Have children.
1440
01:04:41,560 --> 01:04:44,010
I gave up on all of that.
1441
01:04:44,010 --> 01:04:47,330
And when I got out of the Ozarks,
1442
01:04:47,330 --> 01:04:51,260
and I started opening
my eyes, and then I had
1443
01:04:51,260 --> 01:04:54,030
points of reference, and I saw gay couples
1444
01:04:54,030 --> 01:04:57,460
that were together 20,
30 years, they had kids,
1445
01:04:57,460 --> 01:04:59,710
they were living the American dream.
1446
01:04:59,710 --> 01:05:01,280
There's a kid somewhere right now
1447
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:04,670
in the middle of the
country who doesn't know
1448
01:05:04,670 --> 01:05:08,220
a grownup person who says that
they're, identifies as gay.
1449
01:05:08,220 --> 01:05:12,250
The many ways that I have seen
1450
01:05:12,250 --> 01:05:16,340
the entertainment industry
help that exact cause,
1451
01:05:16,340 --> 01:05:19,240
and really break down barriers,
1452
01:05:19,240 --> 01:05:21,560
you know, open people's eyes by,
1453
01:05:21,560 --> 01:05:23,740
for lack of a better word, normalizing,
1454
01:05:23,740 --> 01:05:26,710
you know, really blur and
make things more fluid.
1455
01:05:26,710 --> 01:05:28,730
I think that America's
moved forward really
1456
01:05:28,730 --> 01:05:33,360
because culturally, gay
became in the zeitgeist.
1457
01:05:33,360 --> 01:05:35,010
It became acceptable.
1458
01:05:35,010 --> 01:05:38,610
And suddenly, you were
seeing people on television
1459
01:05:38,610 --> 01:05:40,770
that were gay, that were lesbian.
1460
01:05:40,770 --> 01:05:42,770
Now you're seeing transgender,
which is so great,
1461
01:05:42,770 --> 01:05:45,620
and you've seen that change the politics.
1462
01:05:45,620 --> 01:05:49,130
Well I always admired people
like Ellen and Roseanne,
1463
01:05:49,130 --> 01:05:50,720
and people who were doing those shows
1464
01:05:50,720 --> 01:05:52,570
that nobody was doing at the time,
1465
01:05:52,570 --> 01:05:55,570
who were introducing characters
in a way that felt like
1466
01:05:55,570 --> 01:05:58,100
this is a family, this is
a normal family, you know.
1467
01:05:58,100 --> 01:06:00,630
And so for me, in the corporate world,
1468
01:06:00,630 --> 01:06:03,970
or other worlds where I
needed to come out, in a way,
1469
01:06:03,970 --> 01:06:05,980
it felt a little bit safer for me,
1470
01:06:05,980 --> 01:06:08,420
because those things were
happening in the media.
1471
01:06:08,420 --> 01:06:11,650
So going back to role models,
sometimes those were people
1472
01:06:11,650 --> 01:06:14,980
that I looked up to to go thank you for,
1473
01:06:14,980 --> 01:06:17,820
you know, having two women
kiss, or having two men kiss.
1474
01:06:17,820 --> 01:06:19,890
It never, ever would have
happened without things
1475
01:06:19,890 --> 01:06:22,370
like Will and Grace, you
know what I mean, L Word.
1476
01:06:22,370 --> 01:06:24,260
Things like that were really helpful.
1477
01:06:24,260 --> 01:06:26,680
Even going back to the '70s,
there was a soap opera that,
1478
01:06:26,680 --> 01:06:28,930
I forgot, it was, a gay man was on it.
1479
01:06:28,930 --> 01:06:30,690
I think Billy Crystal played the gay guy.
1480
01:06:30,690 --> 01:06:33,950
And that started changing
the society and culture,
1481
01:06:33,950 --> 01:06:36,930
because you know, you see somebody on TV,
1482
01:06:36,930 --> 01:06:38,600
and you feel like they're your friend.
1483
01:06:38,600 --> 01:06:42,580
So if that person is gay or lesbian,
1484
01:06:42,580 --> 01:06:47,580
or black or Hispanic, or
something other than what you are,
1485
01:06:48,190 --> 01:06:53,190
it definitely moves you in a
place of knowledge, of safety.
1486
01:06:53,400 --> 01:06:55,500
If you feel something,
and you are something,
1487
01:06:55,500 --> 01:06:57,820
and you don't see it anywhere else,
1488
01:06:57,820 --> 01:07:00,940
then you feel lost and alone.
1489
01:07:00,940 --> 01:07:04,080
I met and became acquainted
with all these actors,
1490
01:07:04,080 --> 01:07:07,200
these different celebrities,
who were completely
1491
01:07:07,200 --> 01:07:10,780
closeted in their public lives.
1492
01:07:10,780 --> 01:07:15,780
And, I kind of was learning
that that might be the way
1493
01:07:16,700 --> 01:07:21,700
for the LGBT community to
keep certain things private,
1494
01:07:22,770 --> 01:07:27,770
as one builds their own brand
as who this public persona is,
1495
01:07:28,030 --> 01:07:31,390
yet they have to hide
parts of who they are.
1496
01:07:31,390 --> 01:07:34,210
And I was very much conflicted by that.
1497
01:07:34,210 --> 01:07:37,030
I was still coming to
terms with my sexuality.
1498
01:07:37,030 --> 01:07:39,390
I met up with a producer by
the name of Allen Parker,
1499
01:07:39,390 --> 01:07:41,710
and when I finally told
him that I was gay,
1500
01:07:41,710 --> 01:07:45,560
and that this older white
gentleman is my partner,
1501
01:07:45,560 --> 01:07:48,240
he said, that's great,
now we can make music.
1502
01:07:48,240 --> 01:07:50,280
You can put that into your music.
1503
01:07:50,280 --> 01:07:53,580
Nowadays, I don't hide
it, it's part of me.
1504
01:07:53,580 --> 01:07:55,580
And it's part of what
I bring to the table.
1505
01:07:55,580 --> 01:07:56,770
And I never thought about that.
1506
01:07:56,770 --> 01:07:58,790
I was always scared, because as a rapper,
1507
01:07:58,790 --> 01:07:59,830
they always say that, you know,
1508
01:07:59,830 --> 01:08:02,830
there's no room for homosexuality.
1509
01:08:02,830 --> 01:08:05,850
And Allen was telling me no,
do it, go against the grain.
1510
01:08:05,850 --> 01:08:07,010
Let's push some boundaries.
1511
01:08:07,010 --> 01:08:09,950
You know, I hope that
kids will sort of see
1512
01:08:09,950 --> 01:08:12,370
that there's different avenues to take
1513
01:08:12,370 --> 01:08:14,110
a lot sooner than I was able to.
1514
01:08:14,110 --> 01:08:17,150
Those kids that probably
have gay people around them,
1515
01:08:17,150 --> 01:08:19,270
but they are too scared
to come out, or oppressed,
1516
01:08:19,270 --> 01:08:21,180
or whatever they're going through,
1517
01:08:21,180 --> 01:08:24,070
they see the people on TV and in movies,
1518
01:08:24,070 --> 01:08:27,180
and that's why I think it's so important
1519
01:08:27,180 --> 01:08:31,030
for anybody who has any kind of fluidity
1520
01:08:31,030 --> 01:08:33,930
in their sexuality to say it.
1521
01:08:33,930 --> 01:08:36,540
Because you're literally saving a life.
1522
01:08:36,540 --> 01:08:38,750
Literally saving lives.
1523
01:08:38,750 --> 01:08:40,520
Any sports fans here tonight?
1524
01:08:40,520 --> 01:08:42,100
(audience cheers)
1525
01:08:42,100 --> 01:08:43,230
Well, I'm a big old raging queer,
1526
01:08:43,230 --> 01:08:44,550
and I don't know anything about sports.
1527
01:08:44,550 --> 01:08:47,180
(audience laughs)
1528
01:08:47,180 --> 01:08:49,550
I tend to be kind of a PG-rated comic.
1529
01:08:49,550 --> 01:08:50,800
I'm not really.
1530
01:08:50,800 --> 01:08:52,650
I think the most compliments I've gotten
1531
01:08:52,650 --> 01:08:54,240
actually are from straight people.
1532
01:08:54,240 --> 01:08:56,730
Not really the gay people,
because I kind of do it
1533
01:08:56,730 --> 01:09:00,230
in that more like a Will and
Grace type of, I think, tone,
1534
01:09:00,230 --> 01:09:01,580
you know, where it wasn't anything
1535
01:09:01,580 --> 01:09:03,640
gross or offensive, or anything like that.
1536
01:09:03,640 --> 01:09:06,370
'Cause I've seen some gay
standup comics that are like,
1537
01:09:06,370 --> 01:09:07,540
(laughs) people are like,
1538
01:09:07,540 --> 01:09:09,020
we don't get what he was just saying.
1539
01:09:09,020 --> 01:09:10,280
You know, so I kind of want to.
1540
01:09:10,280 --> 01:09:12,650
(laughs) What's rimming?
(cymbals clash)
1541
01:09:12,650 --> 01:09:13,690
Like what is that, you know?
1542
01:09:13,690 --> 01:09:14,870
(laughs) You know what I mean,
1543
01:09:14,870 --> 01:09:15,930
the straight people are like.
1544
01:09:15,930 --> 01:09:19,040
I've played gay roles, and
usually when I play roles
1545
01:09:19,040 --> 01:09:21,820
that aren't specifically
gay, I've played things
1546
01:09:21,820 --> 01:09:24,780
that are gangster, like kind of Italian.
1547
01:09:24,780 --> 01:09:26,680
Joe Pesci-ish type things.
1548
01:09:27,630 --> 01:09:29,860
But they don't really have
a sexuality, you know.
1549
01:09:29,860 --> 01:09:31,320
I've never played, like, a husband.
1550
01:09:31,320 --> 01:09:33,610
I've never played, I mean
I'm willing to do it.
1551
01:09:33,610 --> 01:09:35,800
But sometimes I say to
myself, will they buy it.
1552
01:09:35,800 --> 01:09:37,610
I remember when Ellen
DeGeneres was first
1553
01:09:37,610 --> 01:09:39,060
on the cover of Time magazine.
1554
01:09:39,060 --> 01:09:40,220
Yup, I'm gay.
1555
01:09:40,220 --> 01:09:41,730
It was huge national news.
1556
01:09:41,730 --> 01:09:43,460
They were gonna boycott her show.
1557
01:09:43,460 --> 01:09:44,490
It was so controversial.
1558
01:09:44,490 --> 01:09:47,000
By now, everybody loves Ellen.
1559
01:09:47,000 --> 01:09:49,130
And everybody knows that
Anderson Cooper is gay.
1560
01:09:49,130 --> 01:09:50,870
And everybody knows that, you know,
1561
01:09:50,870 --> 01:09:54,720
it's just so not a thing
anymore for gays and lesbians.
1562
01:09:54,720 --> 01:09:57,540
That will happen, I hope,
for trans people as well.
1563
01:09:57,540 --> 01:09:59,100
Because we're not quite there yet
1564
01:09:59,100 --> 01:10:00,850
with trans folks, but we're getting there.
1565
01:10:00,850 --> 01:10:03,560
There is no idea of what a queer person
1566
01:10:03,560 --> 01:10:05,080
should look like in the media.
1567
01:10:05,080 --> 01:10:07,060
There are a couple examples, but a lot
1568
01:10:07,060 --> 01:10:10,770
of those people are like, gay or lesbian.
1569
01:10:10,770 --> 01:10:12,370
Or like you have Caitlyn Jenner,
1570
01:10:12,370 --> 01:10:14,860
who's very much so like this beautiful,
1571
01:10:14,860 --> 01:10:19,130
but very normative
version of a trans woman.
1572
01:10:19,130 --> 01:10:21,170
You know, and that's not to diminish
1573
01:10:21,170 --> 01:10:23,630
how important she is in the media.
1574
01:10:23,630 --> 01:10:27,310
But it's also to say like,
other people are out here.
1575
01:10:27,310 --> 01:10:30,980
And we are very different from
that, and that's important.
1576
01:10:30,980 --> 01:10:33,440
The right now part
of me wants to say yes,
1577
01:10:33,440 --> 01:10:37,100
we've come a long way, but
then the watch the news,
1578
01:10:37,100 --> 01:10:39,070
pick up the paper part
of me wants to go no.
1579
01:10:39,070 --> 01:10:41,130
And I want to scream there are kids
1580
01:10:41,130 --> 01:10:42,700
still killing themselves, there are kids
1581
01:10:42,700 --> 01:10:44,020
jumping out of windows, there are kids
1582
01:10:44,020 --> 01:10:46,070
that are being turned
away by their families.
1583
01:10:46,070 --> 01:10:47,440
There are kids that
are hurting themselves,
1584
01:10:47,440 --> 01:10:48,860
there are kids that are being hurt.
1585
01:10:48,860 --> 01:10:50,980
What are kids today experiencing
1586
01:10:50,980 --> 01:10:52,770
if they're growing up in Mississippi
1587
01:10:52,770 --> 01:10:55,790
or in parts of the Middle East,
1588
01:10:55,790 --> 01:10:58,280
or various places.
1589
01:10:58,280 --> 01:11:00,830
It's probably just about as bad
1590
01:11:00,830 --> 01:11:03,150
as it was when I was growing up.
1591
01:11:03,150 --> 01:11:05,550
I believe that it only gets better.
1592
01:11:05,550 --> 01:11:08,960
But we can't forget that
there's a lot of places
1593
01:11:08,960 --> 01:11:11,440
in this big country of ours.
1594
01:11:11,440 --> 01:11:15,650
And every small community is different.
1595
01:11:15,650 --> 01:11:18,120
When you go to different places.
1596
01:11:18,120 --> 01:11:19,620
It's a struggle, it's always
1597
01:11:19,620 --> 01:11:22,090
going to be a struggle, I think.
1598
01:11:22,090 --> 01:11:25,550
But, in large parts of America,
1599
01:11:25,550 --> 01:11:28,250
in Europe and South
Africa, and other parts
1600
01:11:28,250 --> 01:11:30,120
of the world, it's night and day.
1601
01:11:30,120 --> 01:11:33,250
And I'm no expert on what it's
like to be a 14 year old now.
1602
01:11:33,250 --> 01:11:36,110
But I sure remember what
it was like when I was 14.
1603
01:11:36,110 --> 01:11:41,050
And it was completely lonely,
and I thought that I had
1604
01:11:41,050 --> 01:11:43,710
this horrible, horrible,
horrible thing wrong with me,
1605
01:11:43,710 --> 01:11:45,060
and I couldn't talk to anybody about it
1606
01:11:45,060 --> 01:11:48,070
and never did, until I was 22.
1607
01:11:48,070 --> 01:11:50,030
And then I've been talking
about it ever since.
1608
01:11:50,030 --> 01:11:51,940
I think it's just as hard
1609
01:11:51,940 --> 01:11:53,880
to be gay now, as a young person.
1610
01:11:53,880 --> 01:11:56,790
When I was growing, even though
you might know you were gay,
1611
01:11:56,790 --> 01:11:57,990
you could hide that from your peers.
1612
01:11:57,990 --> 01:11:59,710
They just thought you
were sort of like strange,
1613
01:11:59,710 --> 01:12:01,130
or an oddball, or weird,
1614
01:12:01,130 --> 01:12:03,240
but they didn't pinpoint you as gay.
1615
01:12:03,240 --> 01:12:06,730
Now, a lot of young kids, their peers know
1616
01:12:06,730 --> 01:12:09,010
that they are gay, maybe
even before these kids
1617
01:12:09,010 --> 01:12:10,940
even have self-realization of it.
1618
01:12:10,940 --> 01:12:13,790
And so, they can't hide as well.
1619
01:12:13,790 --> 01:12:16,090
We also come from different generations.
1620
01:12:16,090 --> 01:12:17,370
So.
- That's also true.
1621
01:12:17,370 --> 01:12:20,330
My generation was a lot less out there.
1622
01:12:20,330 --> 01:12:22,250
I guess out of necessity, and since I came
1623
01:12:22,250 --> 01:12:25,250
to it relatively late, you know, sort of,
1624
01:12:26,480 --> 01:12:27,340
well, 30 is kind of late.
1625
01:12:27,340 --> 01:12:31,290
It just took me awhile to
be declarative about it.
1626
01:12:31,290 --> 01:12:34,560
You know, as a naive, high schooler
1627
01:12:34,560 --> 01:12:39,280
in the mid to late '60s,
I look back and realized
1628
01:12:39,280 --> 01:12:43,900
a large portion of my friends
were in the LGBT community.
1629
01:12:43,900 --> 01:12:45,130
And just weren't out.
1630
01:12:45,130 --> 01:12:48,330
It just wasn't comfortable
at that time to be out.
1631
01:12:48,330 --> 01:12:50,520
The more I progressed into it,
1632
01:12:50,520 --> 01:12:55,520
when you get away from
home, at an university,
1633
01:12:55,580 --> 01:12:57,910
then that comfort level to come out
1634
01:12:57,910 --> 01:13:00,190
and be who you are happened.
1635
01:13:00,190 --> 01:13:01,220
I work with a lot of gay students.
1636
01:13:01,220 --> 01:13:03,250
And I work with a lot of students
1637
01:13:03,250 --> 01:13:05,100
of all shapes, sizes and colors.
1638
01:13:05,100 --> 01:13:09,400
I work in the Dean's office,
so we interface with folks,
1639
01:13:09,400 --> 01:13:10,550
I actually work with a lot of folks
1640
01:13:10,550 --> 01:13:12,160
who are high school students,
1641
01:13:12,160 --> 01:13:14,080
because I put together
our admissions events.
1642
01:13:14,080 --> 01:13:15,080
That's kind of interesting.
1643
01:13:15,080 --> 01:13:17,860
Just because we have a four
year institutional memory.
1644
01:13:17,860 --> 01:13:20,200
And I can tell you that the
ones that are coming in now
1645
01:13:20,200 --> 01:13:23,270
are sort of vastly different
than the ones who were there
1646
01:13:23,270 --> 01:13:26,080
coming in eight years
ago, even four years ago.
1647
01:13:26,080 --> 01:13:28,670
Heather has Two Mommies
came out about 20 years ago.
1648
01:13:28,670 --> 01:13:31,800
So, you gotta figure that
now it's not so unusual
1649
01:13:31,800 --> 01:13:35,460
for us to see a college
sophomore or college junior
1650
01:13:35,460 --> 01:13:38,060
who has two moms or two dads.
1651
01:13:38,060 --> 01:13:41,280
But the brilliant thing is now the 16
1652
01:13:41,280 --> 01:13:43,610
and 17 year olds who are coming in,
1653
01:13:43,610 --> 01:13:46,160
the ones who are just looking at colleges,
1654
01:13:46,160 --> 01:13:47,680
are coming with their boyfriend.
1655
01:13:47,680 --> 01:13:49,360
The guys are coming with the boyfriend.
1656
01:13:49,360 --> 01:13:51,810
And this is sanctioned
by the parental units.
1657
01:13:52,680 --> 01:13:55,380
Last year, when we had
an admitted students day,
1658
01:13:55,380 --> 01:13:57,800
and they were coming to look
at the dorms and all that,
1659
01:13:57,800 --> 01:13:59,560
there was two guys holding hands,
1660
01:13:59,560 --> 01:14:00,920
and mom and dad were standing by,
1661
01:14:00,920 --> 01:14:03,150
and they were kind of looking
like, are we gonna be able
1662
01:14:03,150 --> 01:14:05,240
to be separated from
each other, it's so far.
1663
01:14:05,240 --> 01:14:09,190
Now, that is just change I can believe in.
1664
01:14:09,190 --> 01:14:12,400
You know, something that I
never really ever thought about,
1665
01:14:12,400 --> 01:14:14,760
until I saw it happen
right in front of my face.
1666
01:14:14,760 --> 01:14:19,630
And I also don't want to pretend
like that's the norm yet.
1667
01:14:20,750 --> 01:14:23,630
And I will tell you that there were some,
1668
01:14:23,630 --> 01:14:25,080
just because I thought it was great
1669
01:14:25,080 --> 01:14:27,010
didn't mean that every
other parent in that room
1670
01:14:27,010 --> 01:14:29,030
of 200 people thought it was great.
1671
01:14:29,030 --> 01:14:31,190
So that's important to know too.
1672
01:14:31,190 --> 01:14:33,490
It's been really gratifying and amazing
1673
01:14:33,490 --> 01:14:34,820
to see how the country has changed,
1674
01:14:34,820 --> 01:14:37,940
and how it goes from being
the worst thing in the world
1675
01:14:37,940 --> 01:14:40,470
to being behind the president
of the United States
1676
01:14:40,470 --> 01:14:43,910
on the dais as he's doing
his second inaugural address,
1677
01:14:43,910 --> 01:14:48,010
talking about us and how we
are important to America.
1678
01:14:48,010 --> 01:14:50,490
It's just amazing what's happened.
1679
01:14:50,490 --> 01:14:52,450
I participated in the Boy Scouts case,
1680
01:14:52,450 --> 01:14:54,930
which was a case that
started in New Jersey,
1681
01:14:54,930 --> 01:14:57,530
where a young man who was gay
wanted to be a scout leader,
1682
01:14:57,530 --> 01:14:59,180
and the Scouts would not allow it.
1683
01:14:59,180 --> 01:15:00,690
And the New Jersey Supreme Court
1684
01:15:00,690 --> 01:15:03,410
found in favor of James
Dale, the young gay man.
1685
01:15:03,410 --> 01:15:05,760
But that was appealed
to the US Supreme Court.
1686
01:15:05,760 --> 01:15:07,240
I also worked on that case.
1687
01:15:07,240 --> 01:15:08,500
And that was overturned.
1688
01:15:08,500 --> 01:15:10,490
And they did allow the Boy Scouts
1689
01:15:10,490 --> 01:15:12,600
to exclude gay individuals.
1690
01:15:12,600 --> 01:15:15,370
Of course now, flash forward two decades,
1691
01:15:15,370 --> 01:15:17,290
and the Boy Scouts has
changed its position.
1692
01:15:17,290 --> 01:15:18,420
But not because of the law,
1693
01:15:18,420 --> 01:15:21,350
but because of society
and societal pressure.
1694
01:15:21,350 --> 01:15:26,330
Yeah, I did a lot of
speaking at gay rights rallies.
1695
01:15:26,330 --> 01:15:28,620
And then in the '80s of course we morphed
1696
01:15:28,620 --> 01:15:31,460
into working on the AIDS crisis.
1697
01:15:31,460 --> 01:15:34,940
I feel fortunate that I had my longest
1698
01:15:34,940 --> 01:15:36,970
relationship during the '80s
1699
01:15:36,970 --> 01:15:40,000
when I was in New York
and it was the club scene.
1700
01:15:40,000 --> 01:15:43,130
And at that point, it was
very reckless I think.
1701
01:15:43,130 --> 01:15:47,260
It was sort of we, you
know, forearmed forewarned.
1702
01:15:47,260 --> 01:15:50,060
It was all about free spirit
1703
01:15:50,060 --> 01:15:54,180
and kind of just expressing
ourselves as people.
1704
01:15:54,180 --> 01:15:57,140
I would definitely say
the '80s was definitely
1705
01:15:57,140 --> 01:16:02,140
a time for just hedonism and
free love and free expression
1706
01:16:03,210 --> 01:16:06,580
with a little bit of a
reckless abandonment,
1707
01:16:06,580 --> 01:16:07,790
because I don't think we knew
1708
01:16:07,790 --> 01:16:10,140
what was really going on at that time.
1709
01:16:10,140 --> 01:16:12,280
High school was the time when it was,
1710
01:16:12,280 --> 01:16:13,960
you know, '88 through '91.
1711
01:16:13,960 --> 01:16:17,540
And it was the time when
everyone talked about AIDS.
1712
01:16:17,540 --> 01:16:19,130
People talked about it with fear
1713
01:16:19,130 --> 01:16:21,520
and with trepidation,
and with uncertainty.
1714
01:16:21,520 --> 01:16:24,190
Because people didn't really know.
1715
01:16:24,190 --> 01:16:25,580
I was always a reader.
1716
01:16:25,580 --> 01:16:26,510
And there wasn't much out there
1717
01:16:26,510 --> 01:16:30,120
for the young person to
learn about these things,
1718
01:16:30,120 --> 01:16:31,650
other than what was in the news.
1719
01:16:31,650 --> 01:16:34,950
And the media would portray
it as this horrible thing.
1720
01:16:34,950 --> 01:16:38,400
And it was a horrible
disease to suffer from.
1721
01:16:38,400 --> 01:16:40,650
But the people that were suffering from it
1722
01:16:40,650 --> 01:16:42,240
were being ostracized and being
1723
01:16:42,240 --> 01:16:44,540
separated out from their community.
1724
01:16:44,540 --> 01:16:46,840
I know a lot of people
that didn't get here.
1725
01:16:48,840 --> 01:16:52,180
Most of the people that I grew up with.
1726
01:16:52,180 --> 01:16:55,020
You know, they started dying.
1727
01:16:55,020 --> 01:16:57,600
Close friends, they died of AIDS.
1728
01:16:57,600 --> 01:16:58,970
I'm the last one left.
1729
01:17:01,280 --> 01:17:04,650
And I'm moving forward because of them.
1730
01:17:04,650 --> 01:17:06,210
I speak up, I speak out.
1731
01:17:06,210 --> 01:17:08,970
I work for GMHC, and I'm proud to be
1732
01:17:08,970 --> 01:17:10,380
on their board of directors.
1733
01:17:10,380 --> 01:17:13,780
And 50,000 new infections
in the US last year,
1734
01:17:13,780 --> 01:17:15,420
that pisses me off.
1735
01:17:15,420 --> 01:17:17,730
So, that's why I do what I do.
1736
01:17:17,730 --> 01:17:19,020
Because it makes me angry that people
1737
01:17:19,020 --> 01:17:20,950
don't have the conversations they need.
1738
01:17:20,950 --> 01:17:22,370
And they won't support their kids,
1739
01:17:22,370 --> 01:17:25,280
whether it's coming out,
whether it's having safe sex,
1740
01:17:25,280 --> 01:17:27,250
whether it's being whoever you want to be,
1741
01:17:27,250 --> 01:17:29,000
but be it in a safe space and know
1742
01:17:29,000 --> 01:17:31,500
that you have support, and
someone to back you up.
1743
01:17:32,750 --> 01:17:35,750
The fact that kids don't
have that, it pisses me off.
1744
01:17:35,750 --> 01:17:37,720
So I won't shut up, ever.
1745
01:17:39,600 --> 01:17:42,520
For the generation coming up, I think,
1746
01:17:42,520 --> 01:17:46,370
I really believe that they
will have a better time
1747
01:17:46,370 --> 01:17:49,650
if they just go ahead and
they accept who they are.
1748
01:17:49,650 --> 01:17:52,880
And basically stop allowing, you know,
1749
01:17:52,880 --> 01:17:56,670
the influence around them
to make them feel less.
1750
01:17:56,670 --> 01:18:00,310
Because they deserve everything
that anybody else deserves.
1751
01:18:00,310 --> 01:18:03,420
If you want to make this the
norm, you gotta act normal.
1752
01:18:03,420 --> 01:18:07,230
It's okay for a straight
couple to make out in public.
1753
01:18:07,230 --> 01:18:08,720
But we can't hold hands?
1754
01:18:08,720 --> 01:18:11,090
And the only way to make it a norm
1755
01:18:11,090 --> 01:18:14,470
is you gotta act normal, you
gotta hold hands in public.
1756
01:18:14,470 --> 01:18:17,530
I think the millennials
are so much more fluid.
1757
01:18:17,530 --> 01:18:21,060
They feel so accepted
within their community
1758
01:18:21,060 --> 01:18:23,220
that they're comfortable being out.
1759
01:18:23,220 --> 01:18:28,090
They're comfortable how
they identify sexually.
1760
01:18:28,090 --> 01:18:30,400
And I think because of that,
1761
01:18:30,400 --> 01:18:33,770
the need to know starts to go away.
1762
01:18:33,770 --> 01:18:37,590
I think that when you don't
care, it doesn't matter.
1763
01:18:37,590 --> 01:18:39,820
And if you're accepted by your peers,
1764
01:18:39,820 --> 01:18:41,760
than it doesn't matter anymore.
1765
01:18:41,760 --> 01:18:45,500
And I think that's where
things have to change.
1766
01:18:45,500 --> 01:18:48,730
Acceptance has to start in families.
1767
01:18:48,730 --> 01:18:52,150
Acceptance starts in the smallest nucleus
1768
01:18:52,150 --> 01:18:55,110
of our personal tribe.
1769
01:18:55,110 --> 01:18:58,450
And as that spreads out, then the need
1770
01:18:58,450 --> 01:19:00,880
to know just disappears.
1771
01:19:00,880 --> 01:19:05,290
When you deny a fundamental
aspect of someone's
1772
01:19:05,290 --> 01:19:09,060
personality and identity,
it can be so confusing.
1773
01:19:09,060 --> 01:19:11,210
So I think that's why it is important
1774
01:19:11,210 --> 01:19:12,740
to keep talking about gender.
1775
01:19:12,740 --> 01:19:14,860
In 50 years, terms like gay and lesbian
1776
01:19:14,860 --> 01:19:17,880
are gonna be considered
archaic and out of date.
1777
01:19:17,880 --> 01:19:19,570
Younger people are much more fluid.
1778
01:19:19,570 --> 01:19:22,060
They're not defining
themselves in that way.
1779
01:19:22,060 --> 01:19:24,910
Us pre-Stonewall people have to catch up
1780
01:19:24,910 --> 01:19:27,440
and learn what's going
on and understand it.
1781
01:19:27,440 --> 01:19:31,980
I feel like the goal
is to create a society
1782
01:19:31,980 --> 01:19:36,980
where a child can grow up in
whatever body that they're in,
1783
01:19:38,780 --> 01:19:40,330
and go towards whatever it is
1784
01:19:40,330 --> 01:19:43,160
that they're attracted
to and interested in,
1785
01:19:43,160 --> 01:19:46,790
without having to define that interest
1786
01:19:47,760 --> 01:19:50,510
as female or male, as a gender.
1787
01:19:50,510 --> 01:19:52,990
Like, we do pink and
blue, colors don't have
1788
01:19:52,990 --> 01:19:56,440
a penis or a vagina,
they don't have a gender.
1789
01:19:56,440 --> 01:19:57,780
Toys don't have a gender.
1790
01:19:57,780 --> 01:20:02,680
And sports or science or
food or math or singing
1791
01:20:02,680 --> 01:20:05,120
doesn't have a gender, they
just are what they are.
1792
01:20:05,120 --> 01:20:10,120
And we are so focused on giving everything
1793
01:20:10,310 --> 01:20:13,560
that a child is interested in a label
1794
01:20:13,560 --> 01:20:18,380
that then they have to decide
what they are or aren't.
1795
01:20:18,380 --> 01:20:22,860
And my fantasy is that we
someday create a culture
1796
01:20:22,860 --> 01:20:27,860
where you feel comfortable
being 100% who you are.
1797
01:20:28,290 --> 01:20:29,260
When I was at Harvard, I thought I was
1798
01:20:29,260 --> 01:20:32,290
the only one like me that there was.
1799
01:20:33,190 --> 01:20:34,380
And then a couple years later,
1800
01:20:34,380 --> 01:20:37,240
I realized that the very
popular resident tutor,
1801
01:20:37,240 --> 01:20:39,360
who had meals with us
and kind of made sure
1802
01:20:39,360 --> 01:20:41,050
we didn't throw things out the window,
1803
01:20:41,050 --> 01:20:42,480
everybody wanted to be with this guy,
1804
01:20:42,480 --> 01:20:43,900
and he was so smart and so funny,
1805
01:20:43,900 --> 01:20:45,890
and he knew everything about government,
1806
01:20:45,890 --> 01:20:48,210
and I realized, oh my gosh,
1807
01:20:48,210 --> 01:20:50,580
he's looking at the same guys I am.
1808
01:20:50,580 --> 01:20:51,880
He's the same way I am.
1809
01:20:51,880 --> 01:20:52,920
There are two of us.
1810
01:20:52,920 --> 01:20:54,590
Not just one.
1811
01:20:54,590 --> 01:20:56,310
Of course, there were
hundreds and hundreds
1812
01:20:56,310 --> 01:20:58,440
of guys like, you know, but.
1813
01:20:58,440 --> 01:21:02,140
Well, that guy, I wound
up, about 40 years later,
1814
01:21:02,140 --> 01:21:06,560
attending, actually being a
part of his wedding to a guy.
1815
01:21:06,560 --> 01:21:08,480
And his name is Barney Frank.
1816
01:21:08,480 --> 01:21:10,220
He went on to become chairman
1817
01:21:10,220 --> 01:21:11,940
of the House Financial Services Committee.
1818
01:21:11,940 --> 01:21:14,200
What an arc of history that is to go,
1819
01:21:14,200 --> 01:21:17,170
he was equally closeted,
and we never talked
1820
01:21:17,170 --> 01:21:20,050
about it in college,
because I wasn't gonna
1821
01:21:20,050 --> 01:21:22,090
talk to anybody about it.
1822
01:21:22,090 --> 01:21:24,240
But, it's great how the world has changed.
1823
01:21:24,240 --> 01:21:26,960
And there's room for
lots of different shades.
1824
01:21:28,050 --> 01:21:30,130
Oh God, we had,
1825
01:21:31,310 --> 01:21:32,970
we had people in our neighborhood,
1826
01:21:32,970 --> 01:21:35,030
outside our neighborhood and school.
1827
01:21:35,900 --> 01:21:40,890
We had, in our families, we
had so much hatred toward us.
1828
01:21:40,890 --> 01:21:43,990
And we had to fight all the time.
1829
01:21:43,990 --> 01:21:47,180
But we survived, and I'm like, okay,
1830
01:21:47,180 --> 01:21:50,740
if we can survive in such a
difficult, difficult time,
1831
01:21:50,740 --> 01:21:53,500
when it seemed like everybody hated us,
1832
01:21:53,500 --> 01:21:57,480
I think this generation
to come, come on, sweetie,
1833
01:21:57,480 --> 01:22:02,250
this is your time, and don't
let anybody take that from you.
1834
01:22:02,250 --> 01:22:04,090
Because it's your time.
1835
01:22:04,090 --> 01:22:07,050
And you should embrace it and
move forward, and be happy.
1836
01:22:12,560 --> 01:22:16,470
(radio chatterring indistinctly)
1837
01:22:16,470 --> 01:22:19,050
(mellow music)
1838
01:22:25,720 --> 01:22:29,440
♪ Watching the TV ♪
1839
01:22:29,440 --> 01:22:34,440
♪ Cut to the listen ♪
1840
01:22:37,540 --> 01:22:40,940
♪ Better to go to bed and cry ♪
1841
01:22:40,940 --> 01:22:43,520
(mellow music)
1842
01:23:34,350 --> 01:23:37,350
♪ Just me and my TV ♪
1843
01:23:41,300 --> 01:23:44,220
(electronic music)
146824
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