All language subtitles for Prey.2019.1080p.WEB-DL.AAC2.0.H.264-ZTR

- [Matt] Alright, so
let's start get into this.

(laughing)

- Okay.

All right.

- [Matt] And rolling,
so the quick session.

- So I'm ready to give it the
first take,

but one more question.

Is this so like my very
quickly and I say thank you

for coming here tonight.

- [Matt] Right.

- I mean clearly that's
not the courtroom version.

So today, okay yeah.

So just clean it up a little
bit.

Ladies and gentlemen,

firstly let me thank you
for being here today.

Now I will cut right to it
in the next few minutes.

I will describe to you the who,

the what,

the why, and the where of this
case.

Hello, my name is Rob Talach.

I represent the plaintiff.

There were 17 individuals in
that you pled guilty to abuse.

- Yes.

- [Rob] You were convicted
of that along with other

crimes in June of 2011.

- That's right.

- The plaintiff my client
is seated here to my right.

His name is Mr. Rod MacLeod.

I bet some of you already
have a pretty good idea

what this case is about.

You're about to hear
the story of Rod's life,

a key piece of it is the
sexual abuse he suffered

at the hands of Father Hod
Marshall.

Most of these victims were boys

when you sexually abused them.

- [Hod] That's right.

- The other side of this case

is the Basilian fathers of
Toronto.

They are a Roman Catholic
religious order.

And most of these victims
were boys at schools

you were working at the
time you abused them.

- [Hod] Most, yes.

- They employed a priest by the

name of Father Hod Marshall.

- They employed a priest by the

name of Father Hod Marshall.

You've been convicted of sexual

offenses.

- That's right.

- [Rob] And you were sentenced
to a two year prison term.

- Yes.

- [Rob] And you served 16 months

of that

and were placed on parole.

- That's right.

- Father Marshall was

originally part of this lawsuit,

but he died recently
over the course of it.

- Is it fair to say
that almost every school

you taught at you would have
sexually touched the boys.

- With a few exceptions, yes.

- You will be tasked
at the end of this case

with determining the level
of financial compensation

that Rod will receive.

Where will this money come from?

It will come from the Basilian
fathers.

Let's take some of that
money they've amassed

and put it back where it really

belongs

into the hands of a
victim of Father Marshall.

Mr. Rod MacLeod.

And ladies and gentlemen,
that's what punitive damages

are for: to denounce and
deter that type of misconduct.

(dramatic music)

(bell rings)

- I decided early on that I felt

that it was my duty.

Yes, I'd been silent for 55
years,

but now I had to do the
opposite.

I had to open the window and

vent all of what had gone on.

In order to finally start
to set the record straight.

Not just for myself,
but for all the others

who'd been sexually abused just

as I had.

Well in some ways I think of the

church

as the main perpetrator.

Yes, they didn't physically do,

but what they did was
they enabled the physical

perpetrator to hide, to move, to

do again

over, and over again.

Why would they do that?

Why would they allow
someone to sexually abuse

children in their care?

(somber music)

(bell rings)

So long ago.

Yet, it's like it was yesterday.

And you see this is exactly
the way it was back then

when I was here.

No question.

It brings back that that
feeling of having to flee

and getting ready to flee.

It's disturbing.

When the one that you have to
flee from

is in such a position of
authority and respect.

It's not like a school bully or

something

that you can just run away from.

See if he comes around
the corner, he's got ya.

It was always a game of cat and

mouse.

And of course I was the mouse.

(somber music)

(sobbing)

(beeping)

- Hi, it's downtown Tesla.

Your car's ready for delivery.

(light music)

- That's it, sweet.

Here you go.

You guys came in far away.

- Oh, okay, thank you sir.

- All right, thanks again.
- Thank you, thanks.

- Take care.
- Okay.

- I have been called the
priest hunter before.

I don't see priest hunter
as a derogatory term.

I mean the priest that I'm
hunting deserve to be hunted.

And someone else should have
hunted them out long ago.

Namely the church itself.

Rod's case went to trial because

Rod's singular motivation

was to make a difference.

Well most cases end in
settlement because

there's pressure on both sides
to do it.

There's shame and apprehension
on

the victim's side.

And I think there's a lot
of PR factor especially

for Catholic entities, scandal
factor that they wanna avoid.

So I'm done for today.

Sir, thank you.

And I believe no other
counsel have questions.

Am I correct on that?

Heads are nodding.

Yes, so we can go off the
record.

- I am the public face
of the Basilian fathers.

Hod Marshall was someone that I

walked

with through this whole

journey from the very first day

I was in the office as the vicar

general

till the day he died

and I had people in my own
community angry

and upset with me that I was
doing that

so graciously and lovingly.

But, the only answer I could
give them

was that I had to
because he was my brother

and we don't abandon our
brother when things get tough.

We journey with them through
their own,

their own death and
resurrection hopefully.

(light music)

(dramatic music)

- With the percentages being
about one or 2% of these cases

go to trial.

Sex abuse trial lawyers
are kind of like firemen

that never leave the fire hall.

When you get the call
and you get in the engine

and your head into the fire

and you're actually gonna fight

a fire you're gonna do a trial.

It is very exciting.

- Rod MacLeod's case went to
trial

because all of our attempts at
settlement

through mediation were
unsuccessful.

Mr. MacLeod felt that
we were not being fair

and just in what we were
willing to offer him

as a settlement.

- [Rob] All right, this is
the totality of documents

they provided us on first
request.

Marshall became a novice in 1942

and we know he was at
least still acting in 1996.

- [Rod] Yes, 54 years.

- And there's not a stitch of
paper in his

personnel file that they
initially provided us

that says: he's an abuser,

he has an issue with kids,

he's been in medical treatment
anything.

Nothing, nada.

We're sitting here on the eve of

a trial.

A lot of people after
they've been victimized

especially for multiple
times over multiple years

as children and then lived
a very dysfunctional life.

They don't have that ability to

deal

with the psychological stress.

I think Rod felt that he got
on to this a little late,

wasn't able to participate
in the police prosecution

and so his cross to bear was to

take

this to a public trial.

Rod unlike most victims was in a

situation

financially and psychologically

that he could do that

and not a lot of victims
a lot of survivors can.

When we started sniffing
around they came out

with a confidential memorandum.

Norman Tank priest reports
to Robert Barringer priest.

In the course of our
conversation Father Marshall

volunteered that this was
not the only incident.

His estimation is that there may

have been

around two to three high
school boys per year

from the early 1950s until 1979.

The only note about him is very

pious.

His great interest in
boys makes him neglect

his theological studies.

- [Rod] Yeah, right.

So if the guy that wrote this
knew that he had been caught

abusing a boy he would look
probably be

more concerned about his
great interest in boys right.

- Yeah.

- This goes to show that
either they didn't care

or they didn't pass on the
information.

(dramatic music)

Ladies and gentlemen,
let me begin by first

thanking you for being here
tonight.

I am a lawyer, my name is Rob
Talach.

I represent the plaintiff,

Mr. Rod MacLeod and Rod
as you will soon find out

is suing for something
horrible that happened

to him when he was young.

The sexual abuse of Rod over
many years

when he was an adolescent at the

hands

of Father Hod Marshall.

The only defendant is the
Basilians,

they knew that Marshall was
abusing boys

and they did nothing.

Imagine this they take young
men that wanna be priests,

they train them to be priests,

but they also qualify them as
teachers.

They take an oath of poverty.

They send these priests
out into the world.

And when it comes time
for these Basilian priests

to get their teacher paycheck,
they don't.

All the paychecks, all the money

goes

to headquarters their big
business.

Look we got four years of
abuse over his teenage years.

We've got fondling, we've
got he'd lost his virginity.

He was sodomized at least once.

A priest and a teenage boy.

This is devastating stuff.

You find me many abuse cases
that are worse than this.

Father Marshall did
abuse Roderick MacLeod.

It did happen.

This proceeding is about
determining the damage

and then compensating Mr.
MacLeod for that damage.

In this case the Basilian
Fathers that I represent

accept that damage has been
done.

The crux of this matter
is that the evidence

does not support the degree
of damage that Mr. MacLeod

and his counsel are asserting.

This is not an exceptional

case where Basilian Fathers act

in a malicious, offensive,

or high handed matter toward Mr.

MacLeod.

And consequently there is no
place for punitive damages

against them in this matter.

Thank you.

- [Rod] He'd start by tickling
you and then very quickly

it would become sexual fondling.

- [Rob] Had you had any
sexual interaction with anyone

prior to this?

- No, no.
- Okay.

Does he ever get you to orgasm?

- He does.

- [Rob] Is that your
first sexual experience?

- Yes.

- Okay, and does this carry
on over the grade nine year?

- It does.

- At what frequency or rate?

- It could be as frequent
as three times a week.

But certainly no less than once

a week.

- What were your fears if
someone else had found out?

- Well I believed that, I know,

I was just a kid and here
was a priests so obviously

it'd be my fault and I'd be
expelled.

My parents would probably
not wanna have anything

to do with me

and all of that

Eventually one time it ended up

with him

penetrating me from behind.

- Sodomy?
- Yes.

- [Rob] Looking back
with the wisdom of years

and some psychological guidance.

What is the big effect
that you wanna leave

with these people?

- Well it's just this
overwhelming feeling of

not being worthy.

(sobbing) And even after five
years of working through it

and being aware I still
have not gotten over it.

- I'll end there.

With your permission I'd like to

give them

a couple of minutes.

- [Juror] I was not convinced

that the abuse led him to make
the decisions that he made.

I just was not convinced.

I thought the defense's
arguments were strong.

- It is about is this person in

pain.

Have they suffered?

We just had a gentleman stand up

in a room

with over 15 complete strangers

and completely lose his shit

right in front of us this person

clearly is in pain and
clearly is suffering.

- At no point in time did he
seek

diagnosis from a psychiatrist or

receive

a diagnosis that would
look at PTSD or depression.

- [Juror] The pain and
suffering only really

became apparent as of that
point.

- In the end there is no
question

that the interference that he
experienced

at a young age and the
responsibility

of the defense.

It did.

It was enough.

They do need to be responsible
financially

for that in the end.

- [Juror] He's cheap!

(laughing)

- [Rob] The jury that
started in here, Jason?

Can you present your findings?

- How much do you award

the plaintiff for his pain and
suffering?

And we agreed on 200,000.

Do you award the plaintiff any
money

for the impact of his past
earning capacity, past loss?

And if yes, how much?

We decided a million.

Do you as a group award
the plaintiff any money

for the cost of future
counseling

and medication and 50,000
was what we decided

and for punitive damages for the

conduct

of the Basilians?

We awarded one million.

- [Rob] All right, thank you.

(pensive music)

(ringing)

Hey Rod, how are you?

- [Rod] Good Rob, how are you?

- [Rod] Good Rob, how are you?

- Let me just update you on
some stuff that just occurred.

Ok?

- [Rod] Yeah.

- [Rob] I have heard from Miss
Metzler.

She's pretty polite in
this email trying to keep

the demeanor and the
tone between us conducive

to maybe a settlement talk.

- [Rod] Right.

- So, I tell you that I
guess in partial warning

in preparation that they
may dive into settlement

efforts on Monday and
we'll talk a little bit

about that on the eve of on
Sunday.

And what we wanna do in response

to that.

I mean I understand the simple
position

that you have right now.

And I appreciate it being that
simple

is there is there offer
take it or leave it, right?

- Right.
- Ok.

- [Rod] I hope they leave it.

I don't want them to take it.

- Right, right.

And I've warned you previously
that this is their style,

to drag the client or the victim

through years of litigation,
make the lawyers do everything

and you do everything

and then show up with a
checkbook on Monday morning.

Ok, so subject any questions I'm

gonna get

back at it.

- [Rod] Ok, sounds good.

(somber music)

When the trial is done so I
could end up

actually owing money.

A big bill that I'll have to
pay for the rest of my life.

It's a very real danger
that exists out there.

That can shake you right to the

bone,

but I try to just focus
on my brothers who went

through the same thing that I
have.

- I work in finance, and
costing, and accounting over

the course of my career.

And if you ask my family they
would quite

succinctly say I love numbers.

I tend to analyze things
in that manner from

a numeric perspective a
dollar and cents perspective.

And it works for many things.

It doesn't work for sexual
abuse.

I have spent most of my life
blending

into the background.

When I'm not doing that?

When I'm standing up and being
heard.

I am pushing myself with
everything I have to be there

and I'm doing it because
it's the right thing to do.

It all begins for me
really before I was born.

Marshall was part of
the family almost like

the family pastor.

He would often stay at our
house.

He was certainly welcome in
our house anytime he wanted

and having a priest staying in
the house

was an honor to my family,

I guess that was probably
how they looked at it.

He abused me in my own home,

in my bed and it just
happened that my bedroom

was the one that abutted
my parents our beds

shared opposite sides of the
same wall.

And he was there in the
night in my bed with me.

As an adult I look back
now and say all I had

to do was knock on that wall.

And my parents would
have been coming in there

right in a hurry.

I struggled for many years
as to why I didn't do that

and I felt a lot guilt about
that.

I kept it to myself for a very
long time.

A big part of my life was just

wishing I could

disappear off the face of the
earth.

(somber music)

- In previous years I had
followed

the criminal trial of Father
Marshall and Patrick McMahon,

of course, was a huge part of
that case.

He was the first one to
lay a criminal complaint

in decades against this priest.

So when Rod's case came to
Toronto.

He said, Patrick phoned
me up and said here's

a case you might wanna follow.

And I thought, I'm gonna be
there.

- Attending the trial was
never a question for me.

I wouldn't have missed
it for anything really.

My objective was the exposure of

his enablers

in the church and that
is the bigger issue,

that is the truly the bigger
crime.

- [Rob] So we're set to
start a jury trial in Toronto

which should run between
three and four weeks.

This civil setting allows
the victim, the client,

to control the process
and allows them to say

how far it's gonna go, how
intense it's going to be.

And that is extremely
satisfying and cathartic

for a lot of my clients.

And I like to think that
you know it is even more so

than the money they ultimately
receive.

- I'm actually quite surprised

that with what seems to be
coming out more

and more with the church
scandals is that there's

not more of a flood of them.

There still seems to be a
lot of this under wraps.

I had expected at some point
the lid would blow off.

That hasn't happened here and I

find that

a little surprising that
maybe because there have been

so many settlements with
non-disclosure agreements

as part of them.

- [Rob] Is this the courthouse
that the pre trials are in?

Though the tactical advantage

of me having to go first is
that I get the reply, right?

- [Aaron] But, we have no idea

what their argument is going to

be.

- [Rob] Right, right.

- [Aaron] And the judge might
just take

control of the whole process
and start firing questions

- Right.

(somber music)

Well I think the first shocking

impression

is when you walk into this
courtroom it is small.

I mean it's the size of a
high school classroom really.

The judge is slightly
elevated in the center

of the far end of the
courtroom he's not on

this massive pedestal like you
picture in Hollywood movies.

The judge for the trial

was his honorable Justice Arthur

Gans.

Who is someone I immediately
Googled when I got his name

and he's a colorful
character, very outspoken.

- The jury was a mix of male and

female;

more females than males.

There was a good mixture
of ages although more on

the high side than the low side.

- The lead defense
lawyer is Susan Metzler.

Where Susan and I differ
you know I think her

specialty if I can call it that

is defense

of Catholic churches and
entities.

So we see her on a lot of files

across the country frankly.

You know the joke is
you know who's Superman

and who's Lex Luthor?

We each have different opinions

on that.

We each have different opinions

on that.

But, yeah I know Susan well.

- [Rod] And then behind
all of us was the gallery.

- I kind of had this emotional
thing going on of the day

has finally arrived I'm here.

There they are in court
answering for their crimes,

even though I'm only here as a
observer.

The defense side had their two
lawyers

and the church representative.

- I felt like I was in a tomb.

I was very much aware of
the fact that there were

a lot of eyes watching
me to see how I was going

to respond to anything that was

being said

or anything that was being done.

It was pretty heavy duty
experience.

- We had already met,

he greeted me by name.

I knew Susan Metzler having
dealt with her in my own suit.

When they say: Hello Patrick,
how are you?

I wanna say well I'm terrible.

I was sexually assaulted
as a child and I had

to spend years fighting you two.

You wanna know how I am?

Come to my house sometime and
we'll spend

five hours talking about it.

But, instead I said I'm fine,
how are you?

- Ladies and gentlemen,
firstly let me thank you

for being here today.

You are about to hear the real
life story of Rod MacLeod.

Of his 68 years, his
triumphs and his tragedies

of his time here on this planet.

And in order to do that,
he will at times have

to bare all on this stand.

And you may feel that he is on
trial.

But, he is not.

He is the plaintiff.

It is the defendants that are on

trial

for the conduct of Father
Marshall and themselves.

Well my opening statement
was designed to set

a theme to the trial, which
a good opening should.

It was to introduce them to
Rod and Rod's story life.

And it was also frankly
to get them a little

irritated early on about
what the Basilian fathers

did and didn't do in this case.

Marshall was like a toxic barrel

of waste

and every time he abused
that barrel leaked.

And every time there was
a complaint the Basilians

were alerted to the fact
that the barrel was leaking.

And the reaction was simply to
move it

to another community and not
tell that other community

that it was a leaky barrel.

- The experience of
listening to Mr. Talach

describe Hod Marshall as a
leaking barrel of toxic waste.

My initial impulse remember
I was in the military.

My initial impulse was to tackle

him down

onto the ground and throttle
him.

But it was it was an awful
moment.

Because, yes he did awful
terrible things.

But we have to always
remember that he was also

someone who was suffering
from a terrible disease

that we didn't know about
at the time that he was

doing the stuff that he
was doing to young people.

He's a pedophile and a very
good pedophile at that.

- I don't like talking about it.

But, people need to know the
truth.

I didn't know where to start.

All I know is I wanted
to see some justice done.

It was just, what I had to.

(somber music)

Good morning.

You know like the lone
wolf howling at the moon.

Nobody listening.

- He might say look,
I got it Miss. Metzler

In the face of this law,
what are you relying on?

I think that's probably what
will happen.

Rod was our first witness
which is the norm.

And we took a lot of time
with Rod because I wanted

the jurors to reach a conclusion

and understanding about Rod
before the defense got in

there and tried to poke
holes in it through

the cross-examination.

- Well the most difficult part
is going over the details.

For 55 years, I had buried it

and had not spent any time
whatsoever

thinking about it to the
very best of my ability.

It was extremely difficult.

The only way that I could do
it was I had promised myself

that if I was going to trial
that I

wasn't going to leave anything
out.

That I was going to try
and purge myself 100%

of everything that had happened.

By going into the memory
and speaking it out.

Hoping that that would
help to finally start

to heal the wounds.

(somber music)

- It goes without saying it's
difficult

because he's telling the story
of his life

and we're drilling down
into the intimate details.

His sexual history, all
the failures, financial,

personal, everything that
hasn't worked out for him,

we have to touch on because that

goes

to the effect and the damages.

So, I mean it's difficult
for anyone to sit there

and talk about their
failings for two days.

But, it's especially
difficult for a victim

of sexual abuse to do it.

- Father Katulski was watching

very intently he was observing
everything

and talking to his counsel.

This was important because it
would appear

that the Basilians were going
to accept some of the abuse

that had happened to Rod
MacLeod.

- Listening to Rod's story just

moves me

to a profound sense of sadness
inside of myself that it

even had to happen.

Because it shouldn't have
happened.

- [Rod] It made me feel
much more empathetic

towards rape victims.

The victims are too often
subjugated to innuendo

and to all kinds of

very hurtful painful
experiences.

The victims just end up
being victimized even more

by the justice system.

- Did I believe all of Rod's
testimony?

To the best as any
human person can without

knowing everything and
having been there themselves.

He was credible, yes.

- So there's an offer on
the table as you know.

It's substantial.

You wanna take it and be done?

Or do you wanna go on?

My recommendation is to proceed.

Aaron?

- It's a good offer,

but at some level it's
a personal decision.

You've had our advice.

That's a decision you're
gonna have to make.

- Well you see the problem
is that if I accept it,

I'd live to the end of my days
thinking

why the hell did I do that.

- The church can't understand
somebody who

isn't about the money
because all they're about

is the money.

And I think the proof is
if you took a priest like

Marshall and he was the bursar
and he went

to Rochester stole all
the new building fund,

would they have simply
just moved him to Toronto

and put him in charge of
the bursary for St. Mike's

and he steals all of that.

And then when they have simply
moved him

to Assumption where he
becomes the bursar again

and steals all the money
would they put him in

as a bursar again?

Would they even keep him as a
priest?

- [Aaron] No!

- So I think the fact that
it isn't about the money

they just can't grasp that and
they

think at some point they're
gonna be able

to put sufficient pieces
of silver in your hand

because they do view as Judas

and that you're gonna close your

fist

on that walk out the door
and everything's good again.

I think the fact that they don't

know who

they're dealing with is
our greatest strength.

- I wanna go on.

- So to put the million
dollar offer in perspective,

it's about three to four times
what

the average good case settles
for.

I do what my client says and
there was,

I had two emotions one was wow,

we really better do well here.

But the second one was kind of,

yes!

But the second one was kind of,

yes!

We're gonna be able to finish
this we're gonna be able

to get a verdict and we're
not gonna have something

where the church can just buy us

out at the 11th hour.

To have a client like Rod
that says damn the torpedoes.

Let's take this to the
end, was very encouraging.

- There are many things that the

church

can do so much better in this
area.

What about the bishops,
cardinals,

fellow priests who knew?

I don't see these people
being called to account.

Who's being kicked out of the
church,

defrocked, and cut off
all ties from the church

because they moved an abuser
around?

I don't see that happening.

Our Lady of Mount Carmel.

Pray for me.

Don't talk to the victims.

Don't want know.

Apparently, I am no one's
brother.

- Are you the fellow who
was in the paper, right?

- [Patrick] Good morning,
I've been in the paper.

- It makes me sick because I
know,

like I knew Marshall and
I knew Father Campbell

was another one.

- [Patrick] Yep, just more
than more than we can count.

The justice I wanted was
I wanted it to be known

who he was and what he did and I

did.

I was the first person to
have charges laid against him.

He went to jail, for 19 victims.

- Wow.

- [Patrick] Oh that was
just a small portion

he abused for 50 years.

And he went to jail for
18 months for 19 victims.

So that was three weeks

he served for me.
- How old was he when

he went to jail?

- [Patrick] Late 70s I'm gonna
say.

He had his whole life.

He abused children and moved on

from city

to city and school to school.

Every time he did it.

They moved him again.

- [Woman] You know what you're
gonna do?

They're going to pay out
millions and millions

of dollars and then
they're going to come to us

'cause they need more money.

- [Patrick] They just settled
with the insurance company

for millions, but the
amount is confidential.

So you give them your
money and they decide

what to do with it and
they won't tell you that.

- [Woman] Something has
finally got to be done.

If nobody went to church
any more for a few weeks.

That would do it.

- [Patrick] You have a good day.

Thank you for speaking with me.

- [Woman] Thank you.

- So part of the story of
Rod MacLeod is the story

of Father Marshall before Rod.

So we had attempted to
bring in some walking,

talking, living victims
of Father Marshall from

the decades before Rod
and specifically ones

that had reported Marshall.

(somber music)

- Walking into the courtroom
made me ill at ease.

Reliving in my own mind the
experience

of Marshall assaulting
me was very unnerving.

It was, it was painful.

It was hard to do.

It's hard to hold your emotions

back when you describe it.

- The day I walked in
to Rod MacLeod's trial

I wasn't intimidated whatsoever.

I've been there before in a
trial venue.

So I spoke the truth and
that's what I basically

always have said
regarding Father Marshall.

There's nothing, no pretenses,

nothing to be shy or afraid of.

So, I spoke my mind freely.

- There was no personal,
financial,

or any other incentive
to be there other than

to expose the church
for what they really are

and what they've done
to me and other victims

of Marshall and others.

- The abuse with Father Marshall

started late October 1969.

(somber music)

Father Marshall asked
me to remove my shorts.

I was afraid.

As I lowered my shorts he came
up to me, grabbed my penis.

He whispered in my ear
and he gritted his teeth.

That smile of his.

If I tell anybody, I
will be going to hell,

he whispered in my ear.

- He stopped me in the hallway

and brought me into an
empty classroom and he began

to assault me there by
putting his arms around me.

Pinning my arms down and
then putting his hands

inside my clothing to fondle.

A priest opened the door,
walked in, turned around,

and said excuse me, walked out
again.

He could see exactly
what Marshall was doing.

He used to bring me back
to his room and refer

to it as a workout.

He was assaulting me in his
bedroom

when another priest walked
in and had somebody with him

and said, "Oh this room is
busy."

The attorney for the Basilian
say that:

"Is it possible that they didn't

see you?"

"Is it possible that they didn't

see you?"

Ya, bastard.

I said only if they had their
eyes closed.

- I asked my parents to sit down

at the kitchen table and
I told them what happened.

So my father came after school
about 3:10.

My father couldn't
speak English that well,

but he says my son says
Father Marshall touched him

in a inappropriate way.

And Father Rococo sort of
laughed,

"And your son I've
talked to Ted's teachers,

"He's a good student but
he tends to exaggerate.

"He has a very vivid
imagination."

- I was looking for help.

Hard to find.

Well I went into confession
at Sacred Heart Church.

I didn't come out with the

normal ritual of bless me Father

and all that.

I said I have I have a problem.

And I did not describe it.

And he said: "What is it?"

I said a Catholic priest
was touching impure parts

of my body.

I didn't even know how to
describe it.

And he said: "What did you do?"

Stop doing that.

It's your fault.

- The language of cover up

that speaks of some kind of
intentionality on the part

of individuals who are deceased,

that I don't have any documents

of,

people who I've respected and
knew

as good men and good priests.

I believe in my heart of hearts,

at least from my community
perspective,

that they were doing what they
felt

was the best practice of the
day.

- For them to deny knowledge
is totally inappropriate.

I know better and they know
better.

- Marshall would never have
imagined

that generations of his victims

would be coming together

in the same courtroom to indict

him.

And that's what we're doing
here.

I would think most right
thinking people

would have difficulty with
the transfer, after transfer,

after transfer, after
transfer, after transfer,

with a report of sexual abuse
at each of these locations.

And the thing that I think will

be in,

give the indigestion the most
is in 1992 when they find

out he's abused upwards
of 50 boys or more.

- [Aaron] And they don't tell
the police

they don't tell CAS they
don't even reach out to try

to find victims.
- Nothing.

Yeah just close the book on it.

So, that's gotta be 1996.

Nobody can say we didn't know
and it was a moral failing

and we didn't know better.

The most educated international

worldly group of folks.

A subunit of the Roman Catholic

Church

A subunit of the Roman Catholic

Church

is basically using the defense
of: duh.

To say we didn't know
better is gonna stink up

the whole courtroom.

So on one of the breaks
I went to the washroom

and about the same time Father
Katulski came in behind me,

and we're both at the
urinal, side-by-side,

sort of awkward and I would
normally say something

to sort of break the
awkwardness.

But, as I was about to
I heard a whimpering,

crying clearly from a grown man.

But, the sort of thing
you'd hear from a boy

and it was coming from
the stall in the bathroom

and I quickly realized
it was one of the victims

who had come to testify or watch

that day.

And I just remained silent.

I thought it was important
for Father Katulski,

who was a representative of the

church,

who was a representative of the

church,

to hear that, to hear the
pain that was still emanating

from a grown man for something

that happened decades before.

So we just sat there quiet in
the bathroom

and listened to this whimpering.

- If anyone witnessed
that I have no problem

with that at all if it affected

them,

seeing the true impact of these

crimes

on just one of many victims.

Maybe that's beneficial in some

way.

I don't know, but I always think

the truth

is the most beneficial
thing to present to people

and that was my truth.

Part of my truth.

- [Matt] Do you remember that
day?

- I do remember that day, yes.

- [Matt] Can you tell me
what you were thinking?

- What I was basically

thinking was that this is a man

- What I was basically

thinking was that this is a man

that needed someone to
be with him in his grief.

And I was not unfortunately the

person

that could do that and be that.

That's what I was thinking.

(pensive music)

Dr. McMaster was the
specialist that we had,

the expert that we had
who did an interview

of Mr. MacLeod and gave
his psychological opinion

of Mr. MacLeod.

- Dr. McMaster had a very Clark

Kent look.

He was very confident, he
was very sure of himself

and there would be no real
debate I am going to give

this testimony and we don't
really need

to discuss it because you
don't know nearly as much

as I do, so just take my
answer and we're done.

- So, Dr. McMaster who is
routinely hired

by the defense and the church.

His job is to frankly to
find any other reason why

Rod had difficulty in
life and or to say hey

these weren't difficulties at
all.

- Dr. McMaster seemed to
indicate

that it would be highly unusual

for someone to be that
badly affected through

the balance of his life.

(somber music)

- He believed that my sexual
abuse

was in the low end of the scale.

In meeting other victims the
effect that it has on them

is so profound for so
long, so fundamental,

that I can't understand
how a psychiatrist,

how he could be so completely

ignorant of the

effects of that abuse.

- [Rob] Okay, so Rod.

You didn't like me attacking
him.

Do you still hold that opinion?

- Well I don't like the
idea of you being another--

- Susan.
- Susan!

So if you're going to
attack him you have to do

it with a--
- a sympathetic, polite.

- Yeah, as though your
not attacking him at all

that you're just clarifying
things.

You know the way that judge did.

(laughing)

- Afternoon Doctor can we
start with some agreement

before we disagree.

Because I'm sure we will.

Can we agree that assessing
victims

of sexual abuse is not
your main expertise.

My interaction with Dr. McMaster

involved

a level of frustration and
disdain,

because this is a professional
whose job

is to aid the court.

And he was really deep
into advocate territory.

Your focus has been assessing
the people

that make the victims,
the offenders, right?

And I think that fueled me to do

a more

aggressive and hopefully
effective

cross-examination of him.

Remember Kathryn Thompson from
Barrie?

She's a babysitter that
made child pornography

with the children that
she was entrusted to

and also engaged in bestiality.

- [Jeff] Yeah.

- [Rob] You provided an
opinion to keep her from being

a designated long term offender,

right?

a designated long term offender,

right?

- Rob Talach did not have
any kind words really

for Dr. McMaster on his cross.

Talach was I think rather
dismissive

in his cross-examination
and he actually accused

Dr. McMaster of being some sort

of puppet

for the defense.

(somber music)

- Alright, so I'm gonna
call Rod in a second.

But, I mean part of me
says today went well enough

that I could end.

Because I mean just think
about that for a minute

what if he goes home does
his homework and comes back.

Wouldn't it be great in
the morning to ask him

a couple questions that
are key before he sees

that window to throw his repair

jobs in.

And then I just go boom I'm
done.

- You know I think that the more

he talks,

the more the judge and the
jury seem to turn against him.

Like when he suggests
that Rod could derive

some self esteem.

- Oh my God.
- From the abuse by Marshall.

The juror at the end totally
lost it.

(phone rings)

- [Rod] Hello.

- Hey Rod, how are you?
- Good Rob, how are you?

- A decision that we were
just discussing is do I do

the short version tomorrow
or the long version?

In other words, this doctor
is probably gonna go home.

Actually he is gonna go
home and he's gonna get

into the books and try and
rebuild himself tomorrow.

- [Rod] I think we're in a

pretty good position right now.

I sure would hate to see that be

eroded.

Just cut it short and get rid of

him.

Dump him.

- Look I want you to
leave with this thought.

Part of what you're doing here
is to create ripple effect,

bigger good in society beyond
this right?

- [Rod] Yeah, exactly.

- You have eliminated an
enemy of the victim today

and I'm gonna say in
closing this is the guy

that the church chose to
represent them.

- [Rod] Yep.

- Says volumes of the
lengths they would go to

to protect their brand.

- [Rod] Exactly, exactly.

- While father Marshall was
still alive.

We moved for a court order to be

able

to videotape his evidence.

We wanted the Marshall video
played as late as possible

in the trial so that would be
one

of the last things that jurors
would would hear from us

at least and even hear
from the trial process

before they went to
decide things so people

could see this sort of
unrepentant cavalier

priest monster, in my
words, give his evidence.

(pensive music)

State for the record your full
name.

William Hodgson Maclin Marshall.

- Was quite something.

I'd never seen anything quite
like that in a courtroom.

Here was a dead priest
confessing to almost

four decades of crime.

- [Rob] There were 17
individuals

that you pled guilty to abuse.

- Yes.

- [Mary] They had the
monitors up in the courtroom.

- Yes.

- Some of the spectators
couldn't watch

because they'd been abused by
him.

- [Rob] Most of these
victims from the convictions

were boys when you sexually
abused them?

- That's right.

- [Rob] And most of
these victims were boys

at schools you were working at
at the time you abused them?

- Most, yes.

- To have this evidence from
the grave in front of you.

It was very powerful and
the courtroom was silent.

- [Rob] And you would
have shared your struggle

with abuse with the director?

- Yes.

- [Rob] So this would be a
fourth spiritual director

you made aware of this?

- Yes.

- [Rob] And again you
weren't told to go seek

any outside assistance.

- No.

- I considered leaving.

I'm not even sure why I stayed.

Somehow I felt I just had
to hear his words and see

what he thought of his own
actions.

- [Rob] Did you abuse
John Morand at Assumption?

- [Hod] I can't remember that at

all.

- [Rob] You abuse Jerry Boyle?

- Yes.

- [Rob] Is it fair to say
that you can't remember all

your victims from St. Charles?

- I think so.

- [Rob] You remember abusing Rod

MacLeod

during those early years of St.

Charles?

- Yes, I do.

- When Rob Talach was putting

questions to him and
asking about specific boys,

he said and it was kind
of heartbreaking to me

that I don't remember him or I
might have

remembered him or I could
have possibly happened,

I mean there were so many
instances,

so many young boys, he couldn't

even remember who they were.

- [Rod] Is it fair to say
that almost every school

you taught at you would
have sexually touched boys?

- With a few exceptions, yes.

- It was frankly shocking

because there wasn't a
lot of denial in there.

I mean this is a man who had
been protected by the church

over the decades every time he
got caught.

And I think it built in
him sort of a who cares

sort of attitude and he told it

as it was.

So this has been a problem that

spanned most of your career.

Is that fair?
- That's right.

- [Rod] You were convicted
of that along with other

crimes in June of 2011.

- That's right.

- No guilt for all those years.

No concern that he would
be going to meet his maker

and have to answer for his
crimes.

(dramatic music)

- Things were done the
same way in those days

that they are now we didn't
realize the seriousness

of the crime.

- [Rob] Well you knew in those
days, sir,

that it was a criminal offense.

Correct?

- I imagine so.

- [Rob] You knew it was a

breach of the Ten Commandments.

- Yes.

- [Rob] You knew it was
a breach of your vow

of chastity and celibacy.

- Yes.

- [Rob] You knew it was wrong.

- Yes.

- Okay, I'm just gonna
put some thoughts here

and see how it goes on
a very practical basis.

I already have a document
here called Closing Thoughts.

I gotta put this in plain
English.

How's this line sound?

This will be the last time
I call him the plaintiff.

He is Rod to me and I
suspect after hearing so much

about his life he should
be Rod to you as well.

I think the more human he is to

them.

The more difficult it
is for them to be harsh

in the figures.

The hope is that he
will walk this courtroom

no longer victimized
but finally vindicated.

This question deals with
additional money based on

the nature of what Rod endured.

It allows more money on
top of the general damages.

This is allowed if what Rod
endured was humiliating,

oppressive or undignified.

We all agree that he endured
sexual abuse

for four years approximately 50

times.

We all agree that included
fondling,

oral sex and ejaculation.

The defendant in fact
agrees that aggravated

damages do apply to Rod.

This question is simply one of
how much.

♪ Here I am Lord ♪

♪ Is it I Lord ♪

♪ I have heard You calling in
the night ♪

♪ I will go Lord ♪
♪ Here I am Lord ♪

♪ Waiting for you ♪

♪ But you sent Hod Marshall in
the night ♪

♪ He abused me ♪

♪ And you let him ♪

♪ You let him abuse me in the
night ♪

♪ Yes he broke me ♪

(people chatting)

- You're right, they should be
in jail.

- [Patrick] Absolutely.

I'm sorry, good morning.

- Good morning, how can I share

your pain?

- Good morning, how can I share

your pain?

- You can tell me why

the church fights against
the victims instead

of against the abusers?

- I wish I could.

I wish I could.
- I wish you could too.

- I would have to know it in
order to be

able to tell you and I can't.

- This is a fair answer.
- To me it's...

- [Patrick] Why does it
continue?

- That's what I mean it's--

- [Patrick] How does it get
stopped?

- The system has to change
totally.

- That is a start.

I've gone to four churches this

weekend

I've gone to four churches this

weekend

because I knew the bishop's
statement was

going to be put out.

Was it read here today or?

- No we didn't read it.

We read it on Thursday
that's what they asked us

to do and it's in the bulletins

today.

- Yes.

- So, I talked about it,
but I didn't read it.

- You don't wanna keep having

to talk about something
over and over but until

it's fixed that's what you have

to do.

Because even right today
victims come forward

and they are not believed.

And the church brings out their

lawyers and they fight 'em.

And the church brings out their

lawyers and they fight 'em.

They fought me.

(somber music)

- The closing arguments
in Rod MacLeod's case

were quite different.

The church's side accepted that

Rod MacLeod had been abused

to a certain degree.

But, clearly were pushing
back on any notion

that it was a lifelong kind
of suffering that would

impact financial earnings.

That was kind of my take
on the defense's close.

Rob Talach on the other
hand pressed a lot of

phrases and buttons that
I thought a jury might

really listen to.

- [Rob] Members of the jury,
you may recall that I put

to Father Katulski the
example of Marshall being

like a toxic barrel of waste.

And every time he abused,
that barrel leaked

and the church's reaction
was simply to move

that barrel to new
communities and not tell them

of the waste that was in their
backyard.

- It's hard to tell by looking

at their faces but I
think they were hanging on

to these kind of images
and making something

that can be big and
awful like sexual assault

a little more understandable
when he put it in those terms

and he really did hammer
on the amount of time

that Father Marshall
was allowed to continue

his abuse which was decades,

and decades, and decades.

And that it could have
been stopped in the 1940s

had anyone had any guts.

- [Rob] Years later when
the extent of that leak

and a number of communities
involved was known

to the church they didn't
go back and say, hey,

there was something bad here
in your community that might

have hurt your children.

We're here to help.

We're here to clean it up.

There was none of that.

- At the end of the trial
when all of the evidence

had been presented and
it was about to be handed

over to the jury.

I felt relieved and I felt
relieved for one reason,

that this was gonna be
over and we could all

get out of there.

We could all get out of the
tomb.

- As the jury is about to

retire at the end of the trial.

I'm thinking that we have done
everything

that we possibly could do.

I was very confident of that.

What I was not confident of
was how the jury would react

to everything that had been
said.

They could come back and
they could fall completely

on the side of the defense
and there'd be absolutely

nothing you could do about it.

You're thinking boy this
could be really bad.

(pensive music)

- [Rob] Waiting for the
verdict is nerve wracking

and the longer the verdict
takes the more nerve wracking.

- [Aaron] You start to wondering

what are they thinking?

It could go any way it could be

a big win.

It could be a big loss.

- [Rod] There was really
nothing that we could do.

And so it was just a
matter of passing the time.

- Look at our focus group.

They took that we gave them an
hour.

- [Rod] Yeah but we didn't
give them information,

the kind of information--
- No that's right.

That's what I'm getting at
they took their full hour.

- Oh yeah.
- They kind of wrote off

the punitive question
and just five minutes.

Yeah, a million.

But they took a lot of time

considering how little they got.

They got to put our evidence
and they took an hour of time.

So hopefully these folks
don't take three weeks.

(laughing)

I can only hope that the
religious beliefs

of this jury help us.

They know that this, oh it's all

okay,

just go pray is bullshit.

There's no stricter regime
than the Catholic Church

in the '50s.

- [Priest] In the name of
the Father and of the Son

and of the Holy Spirit
the grace of Our Lord

Jesus Christ the love
of God and the communion

of the Holy Spirit be with you
all.

- [Congregant] And with your
spirit.

Amen.

- Last week after the 11 o'clock

mass.

I was rather surprised
'cause when I walked out.

Onto the steps, down on
the sidewalk at the base

of the steps stood a man holding

a sign.

The victim of clergy sex abuse.

And I didn't quite know
what to say or what to do.

Patrick McMahon was abused
by Father Hod Marshall,

a Basilian who was principal
here

at Assumption and then Holy
Names and he was a good,

a close family friend of theirs.

And he abused him over a number

of years

and he's in deep pain.

And his sign was written on both

sides,

And his sign was written on both

sides,

two different things a
quote from Pope Francis

and then something of his own.

And on one side, it said:

Ask, how you can share in my
pain?

I think that is one of
the biggest challenges

of us who call ourselves
Christian,

is to share in someone else's
pain.

I think Patrick did me a
great favor by giving me

the cue card right in front of
me.

Ask, how you can share in my
pain?

My prayer is that I might keep
that cue card in front of me.

And ask others how I
can share in their pain.

♪ Oh God is grand ♪

♪ The spirit of the Father
remembers you ♪

♪ And Father, we thank
you for your feats ♪

♪ And may his feats be more
bountiful ♪

♪ His people blessed for years ♪

♪ And we will be thankful ♪

(somber music)

(people chatting)

- Here's there!

- Thank you for coming.

- Thank you again for
speaking with me and--

- I shouldn't have hugged
you without asking.

- It's okay.

- I don't know much about your
history

but I'm sorry.
- No, that's not the problem.

I couldn't hug you back
properly holding a sign

but I appreciate it and
I think well of you.

- Thank you.

Same here.

I admire your courage immensely.

- Thank you.

- If there's, well, whatever I
can.

Whenever I can do of
service you let me know.

- Okay, I will do that.

- Keep in touch, okay?

- I'm not going to stop
because they haven't stopped.

When they stop, maybe I'll
stop, but they're abusing.

They're covering it up.

They're lying, they're cheating.

They're fighting against the
victims.

So as long as they keep doing
that,

I'll keep doing what I'm doing.

I'll be in court.

I'll be outside churches.

I'll be on television and
until they if they get

tired of me they can stop
doing what they're doing.

- There'll be a lot of
cutting the baby in half

to get the thing done right.

- Because it's taking so long.

There's got to be at least two
people.

Two or three against three or
four.

- Well the first hour was

probably completely ineffective.

Just bumbling around people
talking about

the thing that they were
most moved by, duh, duh, duh,

and just some airing of
grievances type thing.

And then depending on the
foreman,

you know then they get down to
work.

By that time it's 10:30
and they're still taking

their silly little coffee

breaks and stuff I'm sure of it.

their silly little coffee

breaks and stuff I'm sure of it.

God could you imagine having a
hung jury.

We were pretty confident
on a quick turnaround

and I think it was we
went into the afternoon.

We were getting nervous.

It got pretty intense by the
time we got the phone call

saying the jury was back in.

(phone rings)

Hello, Rob speaking.

(woman on phone speaks faintly)

Okay.

We are on our way over
where we'll be there

within five minutes.

We've got a verdict.

Let's roll.

(pensive music)

- And then finally the
jury reached a verdict

I could just tell by the look on

her face

when she stood up to give

the verdict that I knew
it was not going to be

a pleasant experience and
I was not disappointed

in that at all.

- At what amount if any
do you assess the claim

for past loss of income?

$0.

At what amount if any
do you assess the claim

for future loss of income?

$0.

At what amount do you assess the

claim

for general damages?

$350,000.

At what amount do you assess the

claim

for aggravated damages?

$75,000.

At what amount do you
award as punitive damages

against the Basilian Fathers of

Toronto?

$500,000.

At what amount if any do you

award for lump sum income loss?

$ 1,588,781.

- [Aaron] Awesome!

This changes everything.

- It changes everything.
- Changes everything!

- Yeah, it's unbelievable.

(laughing)

Well the grand total was
$2,570,000

- [Rob] That judgment was
more money than all my other

judgments I've ever taken
combined.

- Just amazing!
(laughing)

- Astronomical a record breaker.

I think they got it bang on.

500 just right in punitive,

because if they go over a
million,

they could say it's absurd.

- That was glorious.

$2 1/2 million dollars.

And here's exactly what you did.

We know you did it and we know
you knew you were doing it.

That was victory.

And that was what I was there
for.

- [Rob] All right.

Let's go get a drink.
- Perfect!

(triumphant music)

- It went beyond what I even
speculated

would be the results.

It was hard.

It was hard.

It was another moment of

shame that I experienced

and felt and a profound sadness

that I always

have and always carry with me
with regards

to these matters that we're
talking dollars and cents

which does not bring about the
healing

that the person really needs.

- [Rod] I hope this outcome
will cause the Basilians.

To rethink their position
and how they treat

sex abuse victims.

Stop listening to their
legal experts and listen

to their hearts.

And the teachings of Jesus
Christ.

- Oh my God, it's awesome.

- This represents the
largest award of punitive

damages against the
Catholic Church in Canada

and it's the first time
that a jury of average

citizens have judged the
church's handling

of sexual abuse a priest.

It marks a turning point
for the church in Canada

who to date have only been
required to pay

for the damage they caused
victims but have never

been fined or punished
for their institutional

conduct and complicity.

The hope is that this
outcome will motivate

change within the Catholic
Church.

Boomy!

Come on, dude.

- [Aaron] Come on, come on!

- [Rod] Alright.

- [Aaron] You're amazing,
congratulations.

- [Matt] When I heard you
testify I heard you say

very good things.

You were saying we're going to
take

responsibility for this.

We have the ability to pay for
this.

We acknowledge this.

Why did you appeal?

- I don't know how much of
that question I should answer.

- [Lawyer] I would advise not

to answer that question.
- That's right.

- Because it's under study.
- That's right.

(somber music)

(bell rings)

- The appeal was not a surprise.

Instead of saying, oh my God
look at what we have done.

Look at what we've done
and look at the reaction

of the public.

What we've done is so wrong.

We must make amends.

But no that's not what they did.

They went right back
to their old behavior.

Oh there's a possibility
that we may be able

to claw some of this back.

Let's take it.

When it came right down to
it, they reacted in a way

in which any profit
making organization would.

Never will you see the change
come from inside the church.

(melancholic music)

- [Mike] This has been
10 years in the making,

here's to all our friendship.

- Cheers.
- Cheers!

Let's keep doing it, cheers.

- Cheers.

- [Patron] Cheers.

- My whole purpose of going
to trial was not money.

My whole purpose was to get the

story out

My whole purpose was to get the

story out

into the public as much
as I possibly could.

Not just for myself but for all

the others

who had been sexually
abused just as I had.

And that to me was the best
thing

that could have happened
out of this trial.

(somber music)

♪