All language subtitles for waco.the.aftermath.s01e05

Anhydrous hydrazine.

Ammonium nitrate.

Nitromethane.

Nitromethane.

Ammonium nitrate.

Oh, shit.

Shit.

Come on,
man. We gotta go.

Defense calls
FBI Supervisory

Special Agent Gary
Noesner to the stand.

As the lead
negotiator for the FBI,

how many hours did you spend

on the phone with the Davidians?

Uh, it's hard to
say, definitively. Hundreds.

Seems like you got to
know them pretty well then.

I guess so.

Well enough to get
some of them to come out.

Yes.

Uh, 35 people came
out during the siege

including 21 children.

How did you do that?

Get so many people out?

You build trust over time.

You start small, you
give them something,

in return they give something.

You compromise.

Trust.

Uh-hmm.

Was it difficult
to build that trust

when other members of your team

were cutting the power
to the Davidians' home,

or rolling tanks
over their cars,

or using sleep
deprivation techniques,

like, uh, blasting floodlights
or music throughout the night?

Yeah, my team, the
negotiation team,

worked in conjunction with
the tactical team, HRT.

And although our efforts
were coordinated,

sometimes we took
different approaches.

And that relationship with HRT,

would you describe it as, um...

adversarial?

But just remember, the
ATF's not gonna be around

- to take the blame this time.
- I don't give a shit!

Uh, it could get heated,

but we always had
the same objective.

To get everyone out safely.

Now, days
before the final raid,

you had reached an
agreement with the Davidians

regarding their
surrender, correct?

David had promised to come
out before and never did.

It's not uncommon in
situations like this

for people to say one
thing and do another.

So the FBI didn't believe

the Davidians were
gonna come out

and a decision
was made to go in.

Who made that decision?

The Attorney General.

In a meeting
on April 12th?

Sure.

Were you at that meeting?

I was not.

Was anyone from the
negotiations team there?

- No.
- Why not?

If you were a team,

why wasn't half the team at
this very important meeting?

You'd
have to ask them.

But you supported the
decision they came to,

to raid Mount
Carmel on the 19th?

Leadership felt it
was the best way

to avoid more loss of life.

I'm not asking
what leadership thought.

I'm asking for your
personal opinion.

Be careful, Mr. Cogdell.

On April 16th,

do you remember Steve Schneider

asking you for a computer?

Yes.

And why did he want that?

Uh, he said it would help Koresh
write the Seven Seals out,

and once that was
done, they'd come out.

This is a request you
made for the computer.

Is that your signature
there at the bottom?

Yes.

And the date next
to the signature?

April 16th.

So, four days after a
decision had been made

to conduct the raid
on Mount Carmel,

you requested a new computer

- for Steve Schneider?
- Yes.

And how long does
it normally take

for a request like
that to go through?

- A week or so.
- A week.

So you ordered a new computer

knowing that it wouldn't
arrive until after the raid?

- Well...
- Why do that?

Why order something

knowing that it wouldn't
arrive until after the raid?

Unless you didn't know
the raid was coming.

I don't recall exactly when
I was told about the raid.

You didn't know.
They didn't tell you

because they knew
you'd be against it.

Leadership made a
tactical decision.

It wasn't a tactical decision,
it was an emotional one.

They were getting
embarrassed on national TV

and they were sick of it.

No, they just felt Koresh
wasn't serious about coming out

and they believed they
were out of options.

Because you failed?

I don't believe
negotiators ever fail.

We either solve a situation

or we create more time
for HRT to prepare.

HRT cited and I quote,

"Once negotiations failed,
we were left with no choice."

That wasn't my assessment
of the situation.

They gave you 51
days, didn't they?

That's a pretty long run
to wind up with nothing.

I wouldn't call it nothing.

We got 35 people out.

And who knows?

Maybe you could've
gotten another 35

if you weren't running
over their cars.

- That wasn't us.
- That wasn't the FBI?

No, it was the FBI,
but it wasn't my team.

Oh, so that doesn't count?

For Christ's sake, why
don't you just ask it?

Excuse me?

I know where you're
heading with all this.

Cut to the chase,
just ask the question.

Uhm, what question would
you like me to ask?

Objection!

Overruled.

You wanna know if
it was inevitable,

if they were planning
to die all along.

So you should just ask me.

Was it inevitable?

No, it was not.

They were running out
of water and resolve.

And I believe that without
the tactical maneuvers

and a little more time,

we could have gotten a
lot more of them out,

perhaps all of them.

Did you tell
that to leadership?

I did.

And that's why they
didn't bring me

to meet the Attorney General.

That's why I was rotated out.

Some FBI leaders were
tired of the press

and the attention.

The American public
was tired of it.

Everyone was tired.

The FBI wanted it
over at any cost.

Holy shit.

Uh, no further
questions, Your Honor.

I have one question for you

and I better like your answer.

Why were you in Andy's trailer?

That was yours?

That was Andy's?

I mean, I didn't...

I was... I was... I'm
stupid, I was high

and then I just went
into the wrong trailer.

When I realized I was in
the wrong place, I left.

Is that a crime?

Go ahead. Search me.
Go search my stuff.

I didn't take nothin'.

What's the downside
of killing her right here?

I know she saw
something in my trailer

she shouldn't have.

Hey, no!

You might hit the dogs!

Auf! Auf!

Blind 'em, I swear to
God! These are good dogs,

but call them or
I'll fuck them up!

Come on here!

There
are 75 ATF agents

around our building and
they're shooting at us!

There's women and
children in here,

and they're... call it off!

This
is Sheriff Harwell.

- Sheriff!
- Wayne.

We got women
and children in danger!

- Wayne!
- Tell them to pull back!

That call was placed
by Wayne Martin

moments after the
ATF raid began.

Wayne Martin isn't here
to tell you about it today

because he was burned
alive 51 days later.

Every case,

every trial asks a question...

and it's up to you the jury
to answer that question

for the rest of the world.

I thought I knew what the
question of this trial was.

See, I thought the
question of this trial was,

"Does the United
States government

have the right to attack
its own citizens?"

It's a scary question
when you say it out loud.

But that's not the question.

Because the government
already believes

it has that right.

The real question

that you the jury are tasked
with answering today is this,

"When the United
States government

comes for you and your family

with no plan for
peaceful surrender,

do you have the right
to defend yourselves?"

That is what's at
stake here today.

For you...

for all of us.

You are really brave.

Well, I'm a badass,
Gary. What can I say?

Do you know what
tipped them off to you?

No, I don't know.

Maybe they saw me
at Andy's house.

What? Wait.

You went to Andy
the German's house?

Yeah, I snuck in there
when no one was looking.

You shouldn't have done that.

Well, I found something,
so you're welcome.

He had a notebook, okay?

With a bunch of science-type
stuff like chemicals.

What kind of chemicals?

Nitromethane...

anhyzahydrizone.

Anhydrous hydrazine?

That's racing fuel.

And adaman... admantium...

Nitrous...

Ammonium nitrate.

That's it.

- Fertilizer.
- Racing fuel and fertilizer.

That's the same combination
they use in The Turner Diaries

to build their bomb.

Robert Kling.

Hey, happy early birthday.

What?

April 19th, coming up quick.

There you go.

You boys drive safe.

I received
another vision from God.

That's wonderful.

Well, I'm not sure everyone
will agree with you.

What He's asking...

a lot of people
might say it's wrong.

We don't judge you for
what He asks you to do.

Thanks, Clive. That's
very comforting.

Clive Doyle, get up.

The verdict's in.

Dad, can I
ask you something?

Of course.

Is everything
David says the word of God?

Or sometimes is he wrong?

David hears the voice of God.

And you believe
everything he says,

even when it's
something strange?

All rise.

Has the jury reached a verdict?

We have, Your Honor.

The
jury rules as follows.

On the first count,

conspiracy to murder
federal agents,

the jury finds all
four defendants...

not guilty.

On the second count of aiding

and abetting the murder
of federal agents,

the jury finds all
four defendants...

not guilty.

On the count of using
an illegal firearm

in the commission of a crime,

the jury finds Paul Fatta,

Livingstone Fagan,

and Ruth Riddle...

guilty.

What does that mean?

It means you've been
cleared of all charges.

You'll be free to go
in a couple of hours.

But what
about the others?

Order
in the court. Order.

It just doesn't...
There's something.

Your Honor,

we'd like to ask the court to
reconsider that last verdict.

On what grounds?

On the grounds that it
doesn't make a lick of sense

to be convicted of
using an illegal firearm

to commit a crime

when you weren't convicted
of the actual crime.

Well, that's not for us to say.

- The jury ruled...
- Hang on. Hang on.

Hang on. Mr. Cogdell is right.

How can I be guilty
of using a weapon

during a crime if that
crime never happened?

Interesting legal paradox.

But... I agree
with the defense.

I'm vacating the convictions
on the firearms charges.

The defendants are
to be released.

Yes.

Are you sure?

I'll tell David.

David. David.

George Roden has been
put in a mental hospital,

because of his
outburst in court.

You know what that means?

I think there's
something you should know

I think it's time I told you so

There's something
deep inside of me

There's someone
else I've got to be

Take back your
picture in a frame

Take back your
singing in the rain

I just hope you understand

Sometimes the clothes
do not make the man

All we have to do now

Is take these lies

And make them true somehow

All we have to see

Is that I don't belong to you

And you don't belong
to me yeah, yeah

Freedom

Freedom

Freedom...

God has
given me this land

and everything on it.

I'll give you all ten minutes
to get off my property.

Or what?

Or we do this mean.

We're gonna live
here by God's laws,

not by man's weakness anymore.

Those of you who
wanna stay, can stay.

But there's gonna
be some new rules.

No drugs, no drinking,
no smoking, no sex.

If you stay, you stay
to study your Bible,

to find a new way, a better way.

And if that doesn't
interest you,

well, it's time you found
a new doorway to darken.

Oh, excuse me.

Hey, Mitch.

I got nothing to say to you.

Okay. Look, I know
you're pissed.

I need your support
on something.

Yeah, well, you can't have it.

Please, just hear me out.

You took internal
bureau discussions

and you aired it
to the world, Gary,

you made us look like amateurs.

Indecisive, spiteful little...

- I told the truth.
- You made us weaker.

People don't expect the
government to be perfect, okay?

But they do expect
us to be accountable.

You think I'm not accountable?

You think I'm not accountable?

You had the luxury

of criticizing from
the sidelines, Gary.

You got to leave.

I didn't. I stayed,

made the tough call, and
watched those people die.

And I got to live with that.

What, you think
you're the only one

still dealing with the
consequences of Waco?

I still dream about
it every night, Gary.

So do I!

But you know what, Mitch?

I think that's what we deserve.

What happened at Waco,
it affected all of us.

It affected the entire country.

And I know you understand
what I'm talking about.

We both saw the protesters
at Mount Carmel.

We saw the increased
militia presence

and that has only gotten
worse since the fire.

And I believe that these people

are planning an
attack, something big.

And I need the bureau's
support to look deeper into it,

but I can't get it alone.

I need your help.

What do you mean by attack?

The advantage that we've had
in dealing with these groups

is handling them
one at a time, sir.

If Gary's right

and they started
communicating with each other

through extensive fax networks,

there's a real chance
they could morph

into some kind of headless
terrorist network.

If Gary's intel is good,

I think we need to
take a closer look.

If the Intel is good.

That's a pretty big "if."

You're asking me to go
way out on a limb here

based on the word

of an unsanctioned
CI nobody has met.

Well, I think the intel is good.

- I trust her.
- I know you trust her.

But before I go
deeper into this,

I need to meet her myself.

Okay.

You're gonna do great.

So you're this mystery CI

I've heard so much about.

Yes, sir. Nice to meet you.

And how did you get
to know this group?

The Aryan Brotherhood?

Uh, well, I was dating this guy.

His name was Wild Bill.

Uh, he liked to rob
banks, do all kinds

of crazy shit like that.

Um, yeah, but then one night
we got into an argument

and he beat me up pretty bad.

I still can't see super good
out of this eye, you know.

And that, that pissed me off.

So I narced on him.

No offense.

None taken. We're not narcs.

We're Feds.

Oh, yeah, that's much better,

sort of.

So, this place,
this Elohim City,

you think they're building
a bomb of some kind?

Yes.

Uh, they... there-there
was a bunch of chemicals

that could be used
to build a bomb

written down in Andy
the German's notebook.

Um, and they talk a lot

about making the government
pay for what happened at Waco.

Have you been in
contact with Wild Bill

since he was arrested?

No, sir.

That's over.

Hmm.

So if I told you that
I had the phone logs

from Arkansas
State Penitentiary,

where Wild Bill is incarcerated,

would that change your answer?

I might have called
him a few times.

- How many?
- Um, I don't know for sure.

- More than five?
- Maybe.

- More than ten?
- Maybe.

This Aryan Brotherhood,

they just let you live there

and read their notebooks
with no problem.

No.

They almost killed
me. I had to run.

Did anyone see this?

- Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did.
- Huh.

You know, there's
been a lot of chatter

from groups like these,

you know, saying things,

like, um, they wish
the FBI would dare

try something like
we did at Waco.

Have you heard any
of those people

saying anything like that?

I-I don't know.

Not-not-not in
those words exactly.

Did they ask
you to tell us this?

Why would they? I
don't understand.

To goad us into
maybe another conflict.

You know, something they
can all rally around.

Did they ask you
to tell us this?

No, I'm telling
the truth. Okay?

Hey. Uh, could we
have a moment, please?

Come on. What,
what are you doing?

She's been through a lot for us.

- For you.
- No, for all of us.

She's a good kid.

If I knew you were gonna
berate her like this...

It does not matter

if everything she says is true

if she can't hold it
together on the stand.

Well, I can work with her.
I can get her to calm down.

We cannot afford another Waco.

It's over.

I gave you your time.

They're not gonna pursue it.

Did I screw up?

No.

No, he had his mind made up

before we even
walked in the room.

You have somewhere to go?

No, I don't.

You know, you asked me once

how a nice girl like me wound up

in a place like Elohim City.

Was easy.

They're the only
ones that wanted me.

And, Gary, if we ever
cross paths again,

you act like you don't know me,

safer that way, okay?

Good luck to you, Carol.

I've spent too long

Away from home

Did all the things

I could have done...

- Oh.
- Oh.

- Let me get four more.
- Yeah.

Hey, is Jocelyn working tonight?

She, she usually works Tuesdays.

- The waitress?
- Yeah.

She quit this morning.

And I was gonna propose
to her tonight.

Yeah. She seemed cool,

kind of came out of nowhere.

She begged for the job
a couple of months back.

- Yeah.
- Then just up and quit.

Wait, when did you say she
started working here again?

Just after New Year's, I think.

Like January 7th, like when
we started working here?

Could have been.

That son of a bitch.

- Excuse me, Mr. Cogdell.
- What? Oh, yeah.

You have a call up front.

Hello.

Yeah, what's up?

The judge did what?

But their streets

Did not feel

Like mine

So long...

What do you say we
get out of here?

It sounds good to me.

Goin' home...

Wait a sec. Wait a sec.

Stop.

- What's wrong?
- What's going on?

Need to take you back inside,

your release has been delayed.

Delayed? What do you...
What do you mean?

- No, it's over.
- No, they, they said

- she was not guilty.
- Hands behind your back.

- No.
- Sir, the-the judge

- already said that she...
- No. No.

No, no, but I'm free.

- You can't do this. I'm free.
- Let's go.

- I'm free!
- We'll figure it out, Ruth,

- it's...
- I'm free.

No.

I'm free!

I'm free!

I'm free!

I have
had some time to reflect

and I believe now
I was too hasty

in my initial decision
to vacate the convictions

on the weapons charges.

Thus, I am reinstating
them now and we'll move on

- to sentencing.
- What?

Your Honor, this seems
wildly outside of the...

Please don't interrupt
me, Mr. Cogdell.

But you're finding them guilty
of a... of a non-existent crime,

of a crime that you yourself
were willing to vacate.

There is no reason to set aside
these guilty findings merely

because the verdicts cannot
be rationally reconciled.

I'm sorry, are you serious?

You're supporting a decision

that you're admitting
is irrational?

If they were found guilty

of using a weapon in the
commission of a crime

then by that verdict,

they must also be
guilty of the crime

the weapon was used in.

But they were found not
guilty of that crime.

I have made my
decision. Take a seat.

But that doesn't make any sense.

I
said I am ready

to move on to sentencing.

The only person

to show any contrition
was Ruth Riddle,

and as someone who was
clearly manipulated

by Mr. Koresh,

you're not entirely to blame

for your actions.

Therefore, I am ordering you

to be committed to the custody

of the US Bureau of Prisons

for a term of five years.

- Five years?
- Paul Fatta.

I'm ordering you
committed to the custody

of the US Bureau of Prisons

for a term of 15 years.

- But I wasn't even there!
- Quiet.

- I-I wasn't even there!
- Quiet!

Livingstone Fagan, 40 years.

- Forty? What?
- Your Honor,

there's no way this outcome
was the jury's intention.

They made their intention
clear with their verdict.

You know what?
This isn't justice.

This is the government
demanding their pound of flesh.

They, they can't stand to
let our clients walk away

and they're getting you
to do their dirty work.

Another word and I will fine you
a thousand dollars, Mr. Cogdell.

I'm already broke.
You can't get blood

- from a stone.
- Don't be so sure.

That just cost you
a thousand dollars.

People will remember this.

This will be the first line
on your obituary someday.

Don't you wanna be on
the right side of this?

Another grand. The
next time you speak,

I will ask the
bailiff to remove you

from the courtroom.

Okay, okay.

All right. Okay.

Furthermore,
Paul Fatta, Livingstone Fagan,

and Ruth Riddle,
upon your release,

you must pay the US
government restitution

in the amount of $1,131,687...

Oh, that is bullshit.

The people decided
this was wrong

that what the government
did was wrong.

If you answer that judgment
by steamrolling them,

you're just asking to
have this happen again!

- I am applying the law.
- The law is supposed to be fair!

I decide what is fair!

It is not my job to cater
to the moral fringe...

It's not your job

- to subvert the will of society!
- Bailiff, please

take Mr. Cogdell
out of my courtroom.

Who got to you? We need
to be asking questions

about how this had to go.

We need to question
the government...

- Order! Order!
- And the people that made

the decisions that
led to this tragedy.

Who got to you? Who got to you?

Ladies and gentlemen,

my decision is made and
my decision is final.

Court adjourned.

Hell of a
case, wasn't it?

Are you here to rub it in?

Because I'm happy to add
an assault charge to this.

No. No, I'm not here for that.

You were a worthy opponent.

Well, that's a nice consolation,

seeing as the wheels of justice

just ran right over my clients.

Everything I did
was above board.

Oh, really? Even Jocelyn?

- Who?
- The pretty waitress at the bar.

Don't tell me she wasn't a spy.

Well, I honestly don't know
what you're talking about.

But if she was,
she wasn't with us.

Man, what do you want?

I'd like to prosecute
the ATF for perjury.

And I could use someone
from outside the system

to help me.

I might be able to make
a little time for that.

You might think
that what you see here

is a rundown old shell of
what this place used to be.

But your eyes lie to you.

I alone see the truth.

This land right here
under your feet,

it's not land at all.

It's a doorway

through which we will
change the whole world.

When I look around at
these old broken buildings,

I see the building
blocks of one giant house

that we will build
right here together.

One giant house that we will
all live in together as one.

You believe it, don't you?

You believe it still.

Don't you, Clive?

Yes...

I do.

So now the FBI's sending agents
to spy on us as we mourn?

No. I'm not here for the FBI.

I'm here for me.

I care about what
happened to you.

That's why I'm here today.

Maybe you could say some
words to that effect.

Okay.

I was the lead
negotiator here at Waco.

Sometimes I feel
like I never left.

This place,

these events...

will stay with me forever.

Now, I know there may be
some of you here today

and there's others that
believe that the FBI came here

and just wanted to purposely
see everybody get killed.

We didn't want that.

None of us wanted that.

So if we didn't want it
to turn out this way,

and neither did you,

then how could it,

when nobody wanted it?

A religious friend
of mine proposed once

that maybe it was evil
that made it happen.

And I suppose he was right,

but not necessarily
in the way he meant,

because I believe that
the whole idea of evil,

it keeps us from
seeing a thing clearly.

It blinds us,

because the evil is
never on our side.

It's always the other guys.

I think what's
closer to the truth

is that we were scared,

and you were scared.

And then we called you evil

and you called us evil,

and then we both stopped
seeing each other

and communicating.

And that's when
the tragedy came.

And now, it keeps
me awake at night

worrying that if we
cannot find a better way

to remember that,
that even though

we might disagree

or be on opposite
sides of a thing,

we are all fallible people.

I make mistakes and so do you.

We're more the same
than we are different.

A great divide
opened here among us

and I'm here today to
push against that divide.

And I hope...

that each and every one of you
can help me in that effort...

or I don't know
what will happen.

Your last meal request.

Any particular channel?

Yeah.

The news.

Miami Beach police are
looking for a man in his 20s.

The shooting took place in
front of several witnesses.

Please join us
for a moment of silence,

as we toll the bell one time

for each life that was lost.

The bombing in Oklahoma City

was an attack on
innocent children

and defenseless citizens.

It was an act of
cowardice, and it was evil.

The United States
will not tolerate it,

and I will not allow the
people of this country

to be intimidated
by evil cowards.

I have met with our team

which we assembled to
deal with this bombing,

and I have determined to
take the following steps

to ensure the strongest
response to this situation.

First, I have deployed
a crisis-management team

under the leadership of the FBI,

working with the
Department of Justice...

MTV