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This programme contains
strong language
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Said I'd never
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I'd never lose my baby!
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So...
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I always keep a bottle near, yeah
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He said I just think you're
depressed
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This, me, yeah, baby
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And the rest...
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You know, I wrote an album
that I'm really proud of about a
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bad situation that I got through,
and that's pretty much where it
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begins and ends for me.
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The new album is called Back To
Black because it's about when
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a relationship is over and how you
go back to where you were before, or
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what you know best.
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Amy, I'm just going to go get...
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This album didn't
suddenly begin
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its life in a recording session in
New York. We'll just find somewhere.
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Amy was living and experiencing
these songs for quite some
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time before.
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I'd say the biggest thread between
Amy on album one, Frank,
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and Amy on album two was
her passion for music.
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..call him Mister Magic.
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You know, she was 19.
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Her idea of success
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was about the
first record being heard and
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her record being welcomed
and respected.
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My way of managing Amy in the early
days was that she needed to
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be stimulated, that was very much
part of her personality,
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she was so bright. And then humour.
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I knew how to make her laugh,
she knew how to make me laugh.
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I always tried to make it fun and
would bring out the best in her.
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It was an amazing period of her
life, I know that she was really,
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really happy around that period.
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She wanted to be a roller waitress
on roller skates,
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she wanted to be a journalist,
she wanted to save cats.
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But music, you know, she never went,
"Oh, I want to be famous,
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"I want to be a star."
Music was just part of who she is.
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She was just Amy, which was loud,
funny.
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She'll have you
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laughing on the floor without even
knowing it, that's the funny thing,
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she'd come up with these little
sayings and you'd just be like,
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"What are you talking about?"
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You know what,
yesterday this seemed like
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the best salad in the world.
Today? Not so sure.
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I was aware that she'd get
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melancholic and depressed at times.
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And I was as aware as you could be
at that age, you know, early 20s.
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There was a very obvious sadness
at the end of,
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really at the end of touring
for Frank.
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Amy hid a lot of things from me.
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She never wanted to look weak in my
eyes so, for example, when I saw
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her cry for the first time,
it was a shock to me.
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And I think, you know,
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romance and love and failed
relationships and things that
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could, when you talk about them,
sound quite small,
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were huge to Amy.
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There was a period of time before
Back To Black where for Amy wasn't
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making music.
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My hair's gone flat!
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I felt so helpless
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What could I do?
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Remembering all the things...
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I remember she went to America to
make Back To Black.
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It was about going to the best
people in the best environment.
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And she had to jump on the plane and
go to America and be on the
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ground in Miami, in New York,
making that record.
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She came to New York, I met her.
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And she had a few of these songs,
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she wrote Back To Black and Rehab
within the three days that we were
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at my place on Mercer Street.
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It's probably the quickest out
of any record that I've ever
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worked on.
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We did five songs
in about four days.
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I thought we did the tracking
in two days.
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I remember the whole thing being
very quick. Yeah.
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It was much faster than we normally
do records. Five songs.
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So three days. I think it was
two days. Really? Wow.
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Back To Black was actually
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the first song I recorded with
the band.
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You know, the most simple thing
you can say to an artist when
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you're meeting them for the first
time is, "What kind
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"of record do you want to make?"
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And, um, she played me all this
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60's girl group stuff and, like,
jukebox pop music and things like
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The Shangri-Las and The Crystals,
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and they were selling heartbreak
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on this kind of, like, giant scale.
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"The world is going to end if my
boyfriend doesn't take me back."
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He stood there and asked me why
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And all I could do was cry...
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I'm quite influenced
by whatever I listen to.
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Like, a lot of doo-wop, a lot
of 60's soul, Motown, girl groups.
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When I had a bit of time off,
all I did was go and play pool
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all day in the pub, I guess where
it's all jukebox, jukebox music.
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I just was inspired by her,
the music she played me, what she
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wanted to do, so I came up with
the piano idea for Back To Black.
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And then I went to the drums,
and I'm really not much of a
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drummer but I just did the
bom-bom-bom-tss, bom-bom,
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put in a whole bunch of tambourine,
reverb on the tambourine
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cos I thought that'd sound like the
kind of stuff that she liked.
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I played her that the next day,
when she came to the studio at noon.
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And she was instantly like,
"Oh, cool, like, I love it,"
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like, "let me go write something
to it."
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I didn't really question the
lyrics,
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the only thing as a producer,
you're in-built to think that,
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like, everything should rhyme
because that's, like, pop structure.
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I remember when she sung me the
chorus of Back To Black, she had,
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"We only said goodbye in words,
I died a thousand deaths..."
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I was like, "Do you think that's
weird, should you change it?"
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She looked at me, like, a little bit
more like dumbfounded,
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like, "Why would I,
how, why would I change it?
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"That is what came out."
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This is honesty on a piece of paper.
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When I sit down to write a song,
I don't think...
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"This'll be good," I don't think,
"This sounds a bit like that.
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"I should work that in and make that
sound like that. I don't think I
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"should have that...
particular line in it," like,
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I just sit down and just let it come
out, you know what I mean?
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And then she went and she just laid
it down, the vocal.
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He left no time to regret
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Kept his dick wet
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With his same old safe bet.
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Mark, you know,
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he was as excited about doing things
and as enthusiastic as me.
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We got on really well.
Personally, as well.
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You know, we're like brother
and sister.
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Get on without my guy...
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I suppose you need to be close
enough to someone to trust them.
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But not so close that you can't
be like,
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"Piss off,
that's a really bad idea."
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I guess we had a similar background.
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I had lived in New York a lot of my
life, but we were both English.
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We were both Jewish. And then
there was also the humour thing.
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She was just razor-sharp wit,
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like, I was nowhere near
her level of delivering
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one-liners and stuff, but as far as
making each other laugh and having
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the same sense of humour, that was
definitely a kindred thing there.
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No, back into your chorus beat
you were playing before,
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before it went to the solo beat.
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You don't have to drop now on that.
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Working with Mark is great,
because he's known as a DJ.
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DJs are in a...an interesting
position as far as, like, producing
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records because they're used to
looking at crowds and sort of,
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kind of like knowing what gets
people out of their seats,
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what gets people going and
what doesn't get them going.
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And Mark had the brilliant idea of
using the Dap-Kings, and they just
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gave urgency and life
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and movement and swagger
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and depth and texture.
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Putting the Dap-Kings on the record
made it a world beater.
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She really loved how this felt
under her voice.
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And then when we came here and
everybody actually played it,
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it came to life 1,000-fold.
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You went back to what you knew
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So far removed
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From all that we went through
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And I tread a troubled track
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My odds are stacked
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I go back to black.
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The big things in defining the sound
of this record was Tom Elmhirst.
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And the mixes.
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And I think because I was
so infatuated with the Daptone
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sound I really liked it sounding
like legitimately like it
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was just straight out of 1963.
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And that's how we had it
until it went to Tom to mix it.
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I love you much..
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I didn't change the vocal that much.
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There was some quite hard
frequencies in her voice
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which I had to, sort of, manage.
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And we also printed a reverb track
of hers.
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So, just her vocal, dry, on its own.
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He left no time to regret.
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And then to add in some flavour...
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Kept his dick wet
With his same old safe bet...
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So that, sort of, immediately gives
it, for me, nostalgic sort of
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sound that you would have heard more
in the '60s and '50s and so on.
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And I remember going to the studio
and realising that he'd found
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another 30, 40%, in terms
of, um, making the record sound
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finished and giving it depth
and perspective
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and Amy's vocals.
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With his same old safe bet...
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In the beginning,
I hated it.
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And then I realised
what he'd done was kind of amazing,
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he'd really brought something
that could have just sounded,
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maybe a bit like a postcard to 1964
and made it sound thoroughly
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modern and tough.
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Get on without my guy
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You went back to what you knew
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So far removed
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From all that we went through
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And I tread a troubled track...
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I write songs because I'm, like,
fucked up in the head,
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and I need to put it on paper and
then write a song to sing it loads
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to feel better about it and have
something good out of something bad.
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We only said goodbye
with words...
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Mark would say that
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the songs just wrote themselves,
they really did.
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You go back to her
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And I go back to...
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Black.
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If you're going to make
an amazing record...
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..go to the place
where the amazing people are.
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Send the girl from Camden,
you send her to New York,
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you send her to Miami.
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Let her hang out with great people.
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Mark, as close as he was to Amy,
Salaam was her go-to,
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her father figure.
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Salaam's songs were the other half
of Back To Black.
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In between me and my man
is me and Mr Jones...
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00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:03,200
Me and Mr Jones.
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00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:05,840
In 2005,
I had just bought this house.
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It was pretty much an empty space
and the first time I saw Amy,
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she walks into the room for the
very first time and she walks
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through the threshold
and she stands up and says,
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"Ahh-ahh-ahh-whoo."
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00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:22,160
She's like,
"Can I record my vocals right here?"
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So pretty much this became it.
We took this mic,
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placed it here,
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and this was the recording
of Back To Black in this room,
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her vocals being here,
then I bought a piano and put the
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piano in the room, I bought a drum
kit, put the drum kit in the room,
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pushed the amps I had into the
room and I intentionally utilised
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the room as an instrument
in the recording process.
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I'm into old records,
I'm a hip-hop producer but I also
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learned the engineering aspects
of getting instruments that sound
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a particular way
and how to capture them.
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Baa-da-da, da-da, da-da.
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And the way I played the
piano and the bass,
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it kind of kept the groove going
and the fun stuff but, you know,
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just experimenting with instruments
that sound like break beats
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00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:17,240
and old music, ways of figuring out
ways of playing to capture it,
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because still we were utilising
not even a full studio of equipment.
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Some simple at-home tricks.
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You know, there's this funny
story where we're recording
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00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:30,280
Me & Mr Jones and Amy was making tea
in the kitchen in the next room
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and the kettle
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went off halfway through the song
but we didn't necessarily
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00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:37,040
hear it, then as the song's going
off we just hear it run off and
240
00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:39,000
then, like, what happened?
241
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:42,200
So when I listened back to the
vocal, halfway through the song,
242
00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,880
the tea kettle starts and it's there
in the record but you never actually
243
00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:48,240
hear it but it's like
a high frequency.
244
00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:52,400
I might let you
make it up to me.
245
00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:54,760
Tea kettle...
246
00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:57,800
Who's playing Saturday?
248
00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:01,960
You know, it's very English of Amy
249
00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:04,720
to be making tea
and still keep the vocal take.
250
00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:08,440
She made us dinner, right.
All the time.
251
00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:11,200
Like, the whole time she was here.
Yeah. Like, giant meatballs.
252
00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:14,720
I definitely remember the meatballs.
253
00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:20,320
I feel like our involvement
in this Back To Black album is
254
00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:24,000
actually a continuation initially of
255
00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:26,360
what we were doing on the
256
00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:27,520
first album, Frank.
257
00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:33,320
In terms of the relationship,
we had fun with Amy, it's like a
258
00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,480
conversation the whole time,
more so than the production.
259
00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:39,520
She made everybody feel welcome,
Vince and Bruce and everything.
260
00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:42,680
She met them and it was just like
she knew them for years.
261
00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:45,800
She was definitely one of
those people,
262
00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:47,960
she had that type of a spirit.
263
00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:52,680
I think every time that I was with
Amy or that we saw Amy and we
264
00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:55,760
were with Salaam, she was always
happy to be around us.
265
00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:00,640
She'd come
in her ballerina slippers. Right!
266
00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:05,400
And just kind of like hung out and
I think she just liked being here.
267
00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:09,320
Or around Salaam, they had
a really great relationship.
268
00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:11,600
I know I'm onto a good thing
with Salaam.
269
00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,000
Salaam and I are very insular,
270
00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:18,000
we work quite closely and together,
we don't talk to anyone else.
271
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,640
A lot of producers are quite like,
"How can we do that,"
272
00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:22,600
or, "That's never been done before."
273
00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:25,640
But they're just like, "Cool,
let's do this, let's do that."
274
00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:29,320
And I helped push her creativity
out, it was like, "OK,
275
00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:33,040
"you're pushing me. Can I say this?"
"Yes, you can say that."
276
00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:34,960
"I can swear?" "Yes, you can swear."
277
00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:37,440
You know, she was excited
about all those things.
278
00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:42,000
So Me & Mr Jones pretty much started
as a song Fuckery,
279
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:45,080
that, you know, in between albums
Amy kept going in the studio.
280
00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:46,480
She recorded a song, Fuckery,
281
00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:48,840
and people in the label and
management were like,
282
00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:51,080
"We'll never get on radio,
she's swearing again!"
283
00:16:51,080 --> 00:16:54,040
You know, all they could focus
on was Fuckery.
284
00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:57,400
So during the sessions,
I was like, "I like it,"
285
00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:00,240
her kind of being influenced
by West Indian culture as well,
286
00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:03,760
hearing them say, "Oh, this is
Fuckery, gwa'an," and this and that.
287
00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,440
She picked it up and made a song
about it.
288
00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:12,120
What kind of fuckery is this
289
00:17:12,120 --> 00:17:14,680
You made me miss
the Slick Rig gig
290
00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:17,040
Old Slick Rick
291
00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:20,080
You thought I didn't love you
when I did
292
00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:22,880
When I did
293
00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:28,200
Can't believe you played me out
like that
294
00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,960
No, you ain't worth guest list
295
00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,680
Plus one of all them girls
you kissed
296
00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:39,160
All them girls
297
00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:41,920
You can't keep lying
to yourself like this
298
00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:44,360
To yourself
299
00:17:44,360 --> 00:17:47,880
Can't believe
you played yourself...
300
00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:52,080
Most of the songs are a dig
at a past lover.
301
00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:55,440
This whole song was her cussin' off
an ex-boyfriend.
302
00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:59,080
Say I must get to the show
at Brixton next week,
303
00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:01,720
and it's either you're going to let
me in or not.
304
00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:05,160
But in the middle of it, you know,
the ending of the second verse,
305
00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:09,840
"What type of fuckery are we, right
now you don't mean dick to me."
306
00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:11,760
Very comedic.
307
00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:14,840
Me & Mr Jones is about,
I used to go with this fella,
308
00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:17,840
we were on and off a good six
or seven years, you know,
309
00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:19,920
we were really good friends.
310
00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,880
And because he worked for a record
company, whatever gigs I
311
00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:25,680
couldn't get into, I'd be like,
"Yeah, G, let's go."
312
00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:29,800
I remember Slick Rick was playing at
the Jazz and I was just like,
313
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:34,080
I rung him up, "Slick Rick, come
on," and he never got back to me.
315
00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:38,640
OK, in the house.
316
00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:42,240
What kind of fuckery is this?
317
00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:49,040
A lot of the songs that Salaam wrote
with Amy that ended up
318
00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:53,400
on Back To Black didn't sound
how Back To Black ended up.
319
00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:56,600
Salaam's songs were very mid-tempo,
320
00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:00,240
and very jazz
and very much like Frank.
321
00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,680
With this first arrangement,
we were still in the Frank mind-set,
322
00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:06,200
we didn't know where we were going
with the new record.
323
00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:08,640
Wasn't the record
for Back To Black at that time,
324
00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:10,440
because it was still developing.
325
00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:13,840
The bass has a bit of a Latin feel,
but once again that was also me
326
00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:16,920
hearing where the chords came from,
the chords also felt like it was
327
00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:19,280
a little Brazilian bossa nova-ish
to me,
328
00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:22,080
at the same time,
so it has a jazz, Latin,
329
00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:26,160
you know, Cal Tjader vibe to it.
330
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:29,920
What kind of fuckery are you
331
00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:35,040
Aside from Sammy
you're my best black Jew
332
00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:40,640
Though I could swear
that we are through
333
00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:46,720
I still wonder about the
things you do.
334
00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:53,240
And so the transformation that
Salaam had to take his songs through
335
00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:57,400
and for them to actually stick and
feel part of
336
00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:01,760
the other half of Back To Black was
just a couple of stepping stones.
337
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,440
Me and Mr Jones.
338
00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:07,320
Between Mark and Salaam,
they did a fantastic job.
339
00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:10,520
What kind of fuckery is this?
340
00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:15,320
You made me miss
the Slick Rick gig
341
00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:20,320
And thought I didn't love you
when I did
342
00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:22,280
When I did
343
00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:27,000
Can't believe you played me out
like that.
345
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:39,240
Like a new...
346
00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:43,200
When I think of her and how she
presented these songs to me, I
347
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:45,960
just picture her sitting in my old
studio on Mercer Street with
348
00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:50,520
a nylon string guitar and just like
singing these songs and she
349
00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:55,240
could barely sort of,
she'd be barely opening her lips and
350
00:20:55,240 --> 00:21:00,040
like, this...this sound was
so heavy and full,
351
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:04,280
this growl or rasp or however
she was singing that certain song.
352
00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:08,800
# Meet you downstairs in the bar
and hurt
353
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:14,640
Your rolled up sleeves
and your skull T-shirt
354
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:22,400
You said
what did you do with him today?
355
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:27,000
Sniffed me out like I was
Tanqueray.
356
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:31,240
I had the rhythm arrangement
as a sort of
357
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:33,920
Latin, like...
358
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:40,320
Meet you downstairs.
You know, and then the
359
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:43,480
rest of the rhythm tracks we decided
were so exciting I just knew
360
00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:45,680
that that wasn't going to cut it
any more.
361
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,360
And I said, "Can anyone think
of anything?"
362
00:21:48,360 --> 00:21:51,600
I don't think even 10 seconds went
by, and you guys were just like
363
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,160
"How about...
do-chu-do-chu-do-chu...?"
364
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:55,640
Why don't you come in,
365
00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:59,160
why don't you come in when you play
your first two bars?
366
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:00,640
With that first beat,
367
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,040
and then when the bass comes in...
368
00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:14,640
I was introduced to the Dap-Kings'
music and I was so blown away
369
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:17,920
by the way that they were able
to recreate this sound of,
370
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:22,280
like, 1964 in this way that was
like, I didn't even dream that you
371
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:25,800
could approximate that in 2006,
when we were making this record.
372
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:31,720
The insight Mark really had was
to really understand the value
373
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:35,480
of what we were already doing and
figure out how to incorporate that
374
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,360
with a pop artist and certain
pop sounds, you know.
375
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:41,920
Kind of put those things together.
376
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,960
I think a lot of people come in
here, including Mark, and tend to
377
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:50,840
look around at the equipment
or the gear.
378
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:54,520
You know, some people tend to
fetishise things.
379
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:58,720
I once heard Mark Ronson say that
we had, I think, to me, he told
380
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:02,600
me that we had magic linoleum
in the back room.
381
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:06,280
And I told him, "Man, there's
nothing magic here, there's just
382
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:09,680
"musicians that have a good sound
and know how to play together."
383
00:23:12,360 --> 00:23:17,040
When you're making records that you
want people to have a sense
384
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:20,760
of what music really sounded like
back when it was
385
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:22,240
really made like this...
386
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:24,320
..and analogue,
as people will tell you,
387
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,600
is all about the warmth of the tape
and the organicness,
388
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:31,040
and running the instruments through
the desk and, um...
389
00:23:32,120 --> 00:23:38,800
..you know, analogue is texture...
and crackle...and pop.
390
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:47,920
Then I called Amy at the end
of the day - she was in London -
391
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:52,280
to play it over, like, hold up
the phone, and I think...
392
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,600
Do you remember, I think I had
woken her up, she was like, "Ugh,"
393
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,120
I said, "Listen to this,
it's so fucking good."
394
00:23:58,120 --> 00:24:02,680
And I played the demo of what you
guys had just tracked, 30 seconds,
395
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,280
I was like, "What do you think?"
It was like...
397
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,960
What Mark and Salaam had to do
to get that record out of her,
398
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,600
whether it was writing or whether
it was making sure that she
399
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:15,320
was happy with the style of record,
400
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:20,960
and with the type of artist that
Amy was, who was very forthright,
401
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:25,040
very brutal, could easily
demotivate a situation,
402
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,080
Back To Black came together
pretty easily.
403
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,720
Meet you downstairs in the bar
404
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:41,240
In your rolled-up sleeves
405
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:43,480
And your skull T-shirt
406
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:48,320
You say,
what did you do with him today?
407
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:50,160
And snuff me out
408
00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,040
Like I was Tanqueray
409
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,240
Cos you're my fella, my guy
410
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,560
Hand me your Stella and fly
411
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:07,240
By the time I'm out the door
412
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,200
You're ten men down
413
00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,960
I want you more...
414
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,760
When I sit down and I have a lot
of feelings that I can't deal with,
415
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:17,320
that's when I write a song.
416
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:20,280
You know, I've always written songs
at points in my life where
417
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,880
I don't know what to do,
except write a song, you know?
418
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,040
So I guess that's why they come out
kind of traumatised.
419
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:29,520
You know that I'm no good.
420
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:33,080
I think you do have to suffer for
your art, you know? I know I have.
421
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:35,520
And I know the reason it took me
three years to write...
422
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:39,520
..not to write it, but to get that
big chunk of my life that I could
423
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,120
then go back and write about -
the reason it took me that long
424
00:25:42,120 --> 00:25:45,720
is cos I had to, you know, have
some peaks and troughs, definitely.
425
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,320
For you I was a flame
426
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:59,320
Love is a losing game
427
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:04,160
Five-storey fire as you came...
428
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,400
Her writing was very much
a page in her diary,
429
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,880
very much her being honest
about how she felt at the time.
430
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:17,000
I think the flipside of that is that
you can become TOO sensitive,
431
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,840
and everything can become
loud and painful.
432
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,200
The pain's all over the record.
433
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:28,320
Oh, what a mess
434
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:32,760
We made.
435
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:34,800
Amy writes from experiences,
436
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:39,480
and she writes about stories
of broken...of the broken heart,
437
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,560
or the intenseness of the love,
438
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,360
and that was her relationship
with Blake in Back To Black.
439
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,280
We just broke each other's hearts
repeatedly.
440
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,880
And I think we were very...
we sabotaged our own relationship
441
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,160
by trying to prove to ourselves
that we weren't in love with
442
00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,000
each other, cos we were too young
to be that much in love,
443
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:01,960
it was like...
444
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,120
It was horrible. And, you know,
I wrote a whole album about it.
445
00:27:05,120 --> 00:27:08,160
And the minute I started writing
about Blake,
446
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,560
the songs just wrote themselves.
447
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:15,840
And Amy lives our her experiences
and then writes about them.
448
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,640
So, when you heard
Love Is A Losing Game,
449
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,440
you kind of knew where
her headspace was.
450
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,560
This was, like, a chapter of her
life which had sort of closed and
451
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:27,800
she had moved past,
452
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,080
so she was able to deal with it
with this kind of like removed,
453
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:34,480
like, "Oh, this guy Blake, it was
great, you should have seen us,
454
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,400
"we used to get in these fights in
the kitchen and I'd be..." da-da-da,
455
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:38,840
But it was so, like,
456
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:42,320
she had so moved past it and she was
in such a good place when we met.
457
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:46,000
But there was one thing that she was
really adamant over, she definitely
458
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,240
didn't want to put any strings on
the record, cos to her,
459
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,280
someone did strings on her record
before
460
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:52,920
and she really didn't like it,
461
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:55,560
and it was, like...it was this
hammy, schlocky thing to her.
462
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,400
She was like, "It's just a waste of
time, no strings,"
463
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,360
and I was like, "What if we do it
and then you don't like it,
464
00:28:01,360 --> 00:28:04,040
"then I'll pay for it,
so you don't even lose any money.
465
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,840
She was like, "It's shit, I don't
want fucking strings,
466
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,080
"leave it alone."
And so I kind of did...
467
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,520
I didn't really do it behind
her back, I just thought,
468
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,000
"Let me do some strings...
behind her back!
469
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,600
"Cos maybe she'll like it."
470
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,560
We mixed Love Is A Losing Game.
471
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,120
If there was ever one that she was
going to hear...
472
00:28:22,120 --> 00:28:24,960
..the alarm bells were going
to go off, it was probably that.
473
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:30,520
I never played
Oh, what a mess we made...
474
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:34,480
We were just worried about whether
the strings were going to
475
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:38,520
worry Amy cos she mentioned not
wanting strings on the record,
476
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:42,360
so I do seem to remember me
and Mark being quite stressed out
477
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:43,480
about her hearing it.
478
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:52,360
She was listening to the mix
for the first time,
479
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,480
she was kind of like with her head
down on the desk like this,
480
00:28:55,480 --> 00:29:00,280
the whole song, so I couldn't
really even read her reaction.
481
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:04,600
And then she just turned round
and she was, like, you know,
482
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:06,480
like, "I love it."
483
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:10,800
Love is a losing hand
484
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:17,240
Self-professed, profound
485
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:22,200
Till the chips were down
486
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:27,720
Know you're a gambling man
487
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:33,840
Love is a losing hand.
488
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:39,800
I like writing about dynamics
between two people,
489
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,920
whether they're boyfriend
and girlfriend or, you know,
490
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,320
a man and his dog, your mum and
your dad, just the dynamics between,
491
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,240
you know, just relationships.
492
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:53,800
Over futile odds
493
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:59,280
And laughed at by the gods
494
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:05,040
And now the final frame
495
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:10,160
Love is a losing game.
496
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,880
This girl had something that the
greats do have,
497
00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:21,120
and that's the ability to, you know,
to go to dungeons dark and grim,
498
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:27,400
to write those songs that sound like
they're heartbreak records
499
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,640
or...
500
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:33,440
..but are actually uplifting
moments, and, you know,
501
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:35,560
that takes a genius.
502
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:42,600
Mark created the sound,
503
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:45,680
which then I was able to kind
of call Salaam and say,
504
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:49,200
"You've got the direction,
they've nailed the style,
505
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:53,800
"you've got to figure out
how your songs fit on the record."
506
00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:00,120
And he was like, "So how are you
going to make the songs we have
507
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,160
"already fit with those?" And I was
like, "Don't worry, I got it."
508
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,240
That's ultimately where we ended up
taking more of the record
509
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,880
into the '60s space more than the
jazz space of the previous record.
510
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:17,520
Remembering all the things
we'd been through...
511
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,760
The Ronettes had it all,
they had the atmosphere and look.
512
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,280
They're my favourite girl group
of all time.
513
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,840
She was different, you know,
like the Ronettes were in the '60s,
514
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:30,400
we were different,
and that's what drew people to us,
515
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:32,240
because we didn't have a hit record,
516
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:36,040
we came out there with confidence
and bad girls and everything.
517
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:38,320
She took it to a whole nother level.
518
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:43,680
I just like the sentiment of that
time, when you're in love...
519
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:47,640
You know, so much music nowadays is
like, "You don't know me,
520
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,840
"I don't need you," and all the
music then was kind of like,
521
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,880
"I don't care if you don't love me,
I will lie down in the road,
522
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,840
"pull my heart out and show it
to you." Do you know what I mean?
523
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,640
I don't think we bought Motown
records, but we knew what they
were, in different pieces,
524
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,680
and that kind of influenced
the sonic I was going for
525
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:05,920
in the drums, the sound,
526
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,360
where before I was just doing things
that were in jazz space, but now
527
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:13,440
I was trying to capture the sonic of
those '50s and '60s records.
528
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,040
Tears Dry was pretty much written
here at the house with her
529
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:24,880
sitting out in the back garden,
530
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:27,240
sometimes all the way out
in the field, with her guitar.
531
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:32,400
And even the lyrics of the hook,
"he walks away, the sun goes down,
532
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:36,440
"in this cool shade" was her sitting
underneath the shade in the
533
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:37,880
back of the house.
534
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,000
And in your grey
535
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,360
In this blue shade
536
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,320
My tears dry on their own
537
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:50,400
All I can ever be to you
is the darkness that we knew
538
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:54,120
And this regret
I got accustomed to.
539
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:55,840
Tears Dry On Their Own is about...
540
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,680
I was with someone that I couldn't
really be with...
541
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:02,240
..and, er, I knew it wouldn't last.
542
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:06,400
But I think because I knew
it couldn't last, it was kind of
543
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:10,680
like saying, "I'm upset but I know
I'll get over it," I guess.
544
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:12,760
And then after she was gone
for the day,
545
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:16,680
I would sit down with the tracks
and really arrange and find
546
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,560
different ways to arrange
and keep it going.
547
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:23,480
And Amy trusted me with that,
and that was the best part of our
548
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:27,160
relationship, that she knew
that she could just write the words,
549
00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:31,200
"OK, I'll sing it, and you're going
to find a way to bring it home."
550
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:36,480
Salaam and Amy were close,
and they were in sync musically.
551
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:40,560
They could sit and talk for hours
about anything, and, you know,
552
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,800
that came through in the music.
553
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:47,080
He was able to interpret what she
was saying with the instruments
554
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:49,920
and other stuff, and it was great.
555
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:54,160
While she was writing Tears Dry On
Their Own, I just happened to
556
00:33:54,160 --> 00:34:00,040
stumble across the original files
of Ain't No Mountain High Enough.
557
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:09,680
As I listened to the instrumental of
Ain't No Mountain High Enough,
558
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:11,640
I just heard...
560
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:21,480
So I heard similarities
in the movement of the song,
561
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:25,280
but once again her song was
written...different tempo,
562
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,200
different space, I just heard it
going, "Wait a minute,
563
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:30,760
"this is playing this way,
that can play that way."
564
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:34,360
And Amy could not hear it for the
life of her!
565
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,080
So she was pissed at me.
566
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:42,320
"You know what, I'm going to try
cos it's you, but, like, for real?
567
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:45,920
"This is not going to happen,
like, this is way too fast.
568
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:47,880
"How can I sing at that fast?"
569
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,240
And through...
Fuck... Fucking...
570
00:34:50,240 --> 00:34:52,160
So there was a lot of...
571
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,680
..mad at the world. Going like,
"You sing it yourself!"
572
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:57,600
I don't understand
573
00:34:57,600 --> 00:34:59,800
Why do I stress the man
574
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:02,880
When there's so many
bigger things at hand?
575
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:04,920
And again,
we'll start from the beginning.
576
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:07,000
This isn't happening,
577
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,400
these were rarities as far as Amy
needing to do a vocal...
580
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:16,880
Fuck this.
581
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,600
It was basically frustration,
for the first time,
582
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:21,520
and only time,
in our creative process
583
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:23,800
was there frustration
with doing the vocals.
584
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:25,800
But when it finally got right,
585
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,000
it made all the difference
in the world.
586
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:33,720
We really went all the way in,
587
00:35:33,720 --> 00:35:36,160
my guys went in on the brass
and on the horns.
589
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:49,760
It was nice to really go inside
those Motown tracks. Definitely.
590
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:52,480
And then really understand
what they were doing,
591
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,080
not just on the surface,
but right inside. Right.
592
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:57,680
And then what she wrote to it...
593
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,840
Because even, like, the term,
"tears dry on their own".
594
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:07,400
Yeah, like a vulnerability but
coupled with fearlessness. You know?
595
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:09,600
She went straight into the fire.
596
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:13,920
He walks away, the sun goes down
597
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:17,000
He takes the day but I'm grown
598
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:18,440
And in your way
599
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:20,600
In this blue shade
600
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:25,320
My tears dry on their own.
601
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,480
Her confidence in being able
to write a song the way she felt it
602
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:32,240
and not being forced to use
some type of formula was there,
603
00:36:32,240 --> 00:36:35,840
so whether it was short or long,
was it good.
604
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:41,280
Salaam was one of the few people
that could speak to Amy and
605
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,440
communicate with her,
and her listen.
606
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,400
He was very good at coaxing stuff
out of her if she was having
607
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,320
a writer's block or if she wasn't
getting it.
608
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:59,240
And even though Mark was central to
Back To Black coming together, so
609
00:36:59,240 --> 00:37:01,080
was Salaam, and I don't think
610
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:03,600
you could have had
one without the other.
611
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:07,320
He walks away, the sun goes down
612
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:11,160
He takes the day but I'm grown
613
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,720
And on your way, my deep shade
614
00:37:14,720 --> 00:37:19,640
My tears dry.
615
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:25,240
When I write a song, I don't think,
"Verse, chorus, verse, chorus,"
616
00:37:25,240 --> 00:37:28,640
it's important for me to get a whole
thought out, a complete thought.
617
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:32,640
And that's why I push myself
on the chords,
618
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,920
I push myself on the melody,
and the lyrics are probably the
619
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:38,920
hardest things, you know...
You have to challenge yourself.
620
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:40,640
I have to challenge myself.
621
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:45,520
I could never sing a lyric
that I wasn't quite sure about.
622
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:54,600
No, I am not ashamed.
623
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:57,240
But the guilt will kill you
624
00:37:57,240 --> 00:38:00,560
If she don't first...
625
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:02,880
Messing with a married man.
626
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:08,680
I'll never love you like her.
627
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:11,960
I really started to feel the soul
in where she was going with this,
628
00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:15,600
and that she was taking a dig
because she was hurt,
629
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:19,920
and it was like, "The guilt will
kill you if she don't first."
630
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,600
You know,
"I'll never love you like her."
631
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:24,920
Basically, "Your wife is really who
you should be with,
632
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:26,600
"so where are we going with this?
633
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:28,960
"We don't even have time to
make this work,
634
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:32,240
"when will we get the time to
just be friends?" And that's where
635
00:38:32,240 --> 00:38:35,400
the Just Friends title took over
from "I've been drinking".
636
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:37,800
Cos it's almost like the drunk truth
came out.
637
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:42,360
It's never safe for us
638
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,520
Not even in the evening
639
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:48,880
Cos I've been drinking
640
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:55,640
Not in the morning
when your shit works...
641
00:38:55,640 --> 00:39:00,480
Every song on that album,
with those producers she had,
642
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:05,920
they captured her sound,
they captured her look all in one,
643
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:09,440
and that's what was so amazing
to me about Amy.
644
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:15,320
She had a style of her own, a voice
of her own, it was so soulful.
645
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:19,920
For a white Jewish girl in the UK,
it was like, "What?!"
646
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:26,000
Though we need to find the time to
just do this shit together...
647
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:29,240
I was amazed when I first saw her
on television,
648
00:39:29,240 --> 00:39:32,440
and I saw the beehive
and the eye make-up.
649
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:33,880
I was like, "Wow."
650
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:40,720
I knew that little lost-girl look,
and I saw it but nobody else
651
00:39:40,720 --> 00:39:43,600
probably could see it,
because I went through it myself.
652
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,840
I'm quite an insecure person, I'm
very insecure about the way I look,
653
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,080
so, I mean, I'm a musician,
I'm not a model.
654
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:54,400
So I just remember turning up
at the BBC or places like that,
655
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:56,960
and the more insecure I felt,
the more I'd drink and...
656
00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:00,080
And Tracey Trash, who does my hair,
I'd be like, "Bigger, bigger!"
657
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:03,000
And the more insecure I feel,
the bigger my hair has to be...
658
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:05,480
..I suppose.
659
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:11,680
When will we get to be
just friends
660
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:13,840
Just friends?
661
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:18,280
Something about each song in her
album Back To Black
662
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,960
including a little Motown I heard
in there, from the horns in there,
663
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,400
those producers were amazing.
664
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:29,520
My records on Back To Black compared
to the songs that Mark did
665
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:31,480
are kind of in a different type
of hang-out,
666
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:34,920
it's a little bit more seedy,
it's a different neighbourhood,
667
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:37,800
but it's still the same energy,
and I feel like the overall album,
668
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:39,640
it stands up,
but that's what made it -
669
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:41,480
it made it because it was an album,
670
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:43,840
it wasn't just
a collection of singles.
671
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,600
Salaam was hearing what Mark was
doing from the off,
672
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:53,360
so he was very much able to kind of
run alongside and make sure
673
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,400
what he was doing was in sync
with what Mark was doing.
674
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:58,440
And egos could have easily got in
the way.
675
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:00,360
Egos could have easily got in the
way,
676
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:04,120
but Salaam is not egotistical,
and nor is Mark.
677
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:06,160
Amy is.
678
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:08,440
When someone would look
at the records, they would go,
679
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:10,240
"How is this going to all come
together?"
680
00:41:10,240 --> 00:41:11,440
It's Amy. Amy's the group.
681
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:13,760
This is all her.
This is all her thoughts.
682
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:16,880
She wrote 95% of that album
on guitar herself,
683
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:20,040
she's the main writer on the whole
album, and people would listen to it
684
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:23,600
and think she's just the voice -
no, she was the creator.
685
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:27,760
They tried to make me go to rehab
I said no, no, no...
686
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:31,400
I was in New York, walking down the
street with my friend, Mark Ronson,
687
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:35,480
who produced half the album, and...
688
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:40,320
..I said, as a joke,
purely as a joke, I sang the hook,
689
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:43,400
and he was laughing,
and he goes to me,
690
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:47,200
"Who's that?" He's like,
"Who IS that? That's funny."
691
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:50,880
And I was like, "I just made it up,
it's nothing, it's stupid."
692
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:54,600
She was telling a story, like,
"Oh, man, I used to be crazy,"
693
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:56,160
you know, she was telling me,
694
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:59,440
just with this period of looking
back, like a closed chapter, like,
695
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:03,080
"I used to be a little crazy,
I remember one time
696
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:05,760
"my family came over."
I was like, "What happened?"
697
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:08,840
"My dad tried to get me to go
to rehab or something.
698
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:10,680
"And I was like, 'No, no, no.'"
699
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:14,840
And I just couldn't help think
that that sounded like a great
700
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:16,600
hook for a song, you know?
701
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:19,440
And so I was like, "Do you want to
go back to the studio
702
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:21,160
"and work on something like that?"
703
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:23,840
It's a novelty song, I'm used to
writing songs that take me a year
704
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:28,040
to write about horrible, you know...
about getting your heart stamped on.
705
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:30,280
Cos it's such a silly little song,
I was like,
706
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:32,080
"We could do it in five minutes,
come on."
707
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:34,840
She just comes back with an acoustic
guitar and it's on her knee,
708
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:39,360
and she's just, like...it was sort
of a bit more like a 12-bar blues,
709
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:40,880
like a slow...
710
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:44,400
They tried to make me go
to rehab...
711
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:47,000
I said no
712
00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:50,240
Yes, I've been black
713
00:42:50,240 --> 00:42:54,320
When I come back, you'll know
714
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:58,280
I ain't got the time
715
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:01,600
And if my daddy thinks I'm fine
716
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:05,240
Tried to make me go to rehab
717
00:43:05,240 --> 00:43:08,560
I won't go, go, go.
718
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:11,440
You know, kind of like the producer
inside me, thinking a little
719
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:13,840
bit in a pop sense, like,
"That's cool,
720
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:18,600
"but how about if we put a bit of
a beat behind it, sped it up,"
721
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:23,960
and she was really into, like,
that girl group pop stuff,
722
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:25,960
so we took the idea of going like...
723
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:29,760
Seemed pretty obvious to me.
724
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:34,440
Oh, I'm going to lose my baby
725
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:41,120
So I always keep
a bottle near...
726
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:43,920
This vocal, this was the first one
that she ever sang,
727
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:46,520
this is the demo one,
so some of the words are different.
728
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:52,760
He said
I just think you're depressed
729
00:43:54,400 --> 00:44:01,320
This, me, yeah, baby,
and the rest...
730
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:06,200
And that was it, and then I came and
wrote the Dap-Kings arrangement of
731
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:08,920
the song,
and it sort of brought it to life.
732
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:12,080
They tried to make me go to rehab
733
00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:15,120
I said no, no, no
734
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:19,320
Yes, I've been black
but when I come back
735
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:21,800
You'll know, know, know
736
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:25,520
I ain't got the time
737
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:29,080
And if my daddy thinks I'm fine
738
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:31,560
He's tried to make me go to rehab
739
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:35,000
I won't go, go, go
740
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:38,480
I'd rather be
741
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:41,560
At home with Ray...
742
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,800
That story actually happened,
and I remember it happening,
743
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:49,680
and I remember her coming back from
holiday and I remember her managers
744
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:52,000
taking her to the middle of nowhere
and telling her that
745
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:54,760
she needs to go to rehab,
and I remember all of that,
746
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:57,880
and I remember turning up in
New York and Mark playing me that,
747
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:01,440
and thinking, "Oh, God, she didn't
just write a song about that!"
748
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:03,920
Certain songs definitely stick out
more than others,
749
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:07,760
and on this one, this record,
You Know I'm No Good
750
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:11,920
and Rehab, and Back To Black was
sort of more...
751
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:15,000
They have a traditional song
structure, if you like,
752
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:18,280
and the hook is really strong
and so on.
753
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:21,560
But it wasn't obvious that
all this would get on the radio.
754
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:26,160
And I was panicking cos I knew
it was amazing and I just
755
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:28,040
didn't want to miss the boat.
756
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:33,000
The way she told it was...genius.
757
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:36,760
Something that has a dark
underbelly,
758
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:39,600
she actually made people smile.
759
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:43,280
The man said, why
760
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:45,720
You think you here?
761
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:49,080
I said
762
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:51,800
I got no idea
763
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:55,560
I'm gonna
764
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:59,040
I'm gonna lose my baby
765
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:03,920
So I always keep
766
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:07,440
A bottle near here...
767
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:11,560
Sometimes I'd even go to her shows
and I found it a little
768
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:13,360
maddening cos I was like,
769
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:16,360
"We worked so hard and these are
the songs and people want to
770
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:21,280
"hear it this way," but everything
is slightly improvisational.
771
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:23,560
They tried to make me go
to rehab...
772
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:28,320
She would never sing a melody
the same way twice because it's
773
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:32,040
almost like, "Why would you do that?
I already did it that way."
774
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:34,640
Ooh, ooh, I just need
a friend...
775
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:40,800
I think some of the really great
singers, you see them live,
776
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:43,920
they'll never sing it the same way
they do on the record because,
777
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:46,560
like, it's almost like they're
too smart to do that,
778
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:49,440
it's like they need to constantly be
challenging and making it
779
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:52,120
interesting for themselves
to be able to play shows.
780
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:56,880
Hey, hey,
my daddy thinks I'm fine
781
00:46:56,880 --> 00:47:02,120
Trying to make me go to rehab
I won't go, go, go.
782
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:05,360
Very quickly that song blew up,
783
00:47:05,360 --> 00:47:08,640
and it was being played everywhere,
784
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:13,480
but Amy really did need to go
to rehab, and maybe if she did,
785
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:18,560
that song may have never come about,
and who knows,
786
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:21,120
fate may have been very different.
787
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:27,120
She told me that a few of the songs
were about this relationship
788
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:29,120
she had with this guy Blake,
789
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:32,120
and obviously speaking to her
about it more in-depth,
790
00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:35,520
as I got to know her, gave me
a window into that time
791
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:38,440
that I obviously didn't know
that much about.
792
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:44,800
It's easy sometimes to forget, like,
how deep a place of sadness
793
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:48,240
and suffering and break-up that it
was, and knowing how intense their
794
00:47:48,240 --> 00:47:52,280
relationship was, I imagine
that the break-up was insane.
795
00:47:52,280 --> 00:47:54,880
Just hearing the song Wake Up Alone,
I was like,
796
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:56,920
"Oh, great. I'm sorry that was...
797
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:01,160
"..probably pretty tough,
but you got this thing out of it."
798
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:06,360
This is Wake Up Alone.
799
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:09,920
This one only took a few takes
cos it really was pretty basic.
800
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:13,400
I mean, that's just three tracks,
that's pretty much the whole song.
801
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:20,600
It's OK in the day
I'm staying busy...
802
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:23,120
You would never hear something
like that on the radio today.
803
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:26,000
People would just think that you're
crazy for doing something like that.
804
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:31,560
The arrangements in her melodies
really became a sort of
805
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:35,200
Trojan horse that slipped in all
the sadness through it, but you
806
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:37,360
don't sort of really notice.
807
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:41,520
I guess, just the little things like
these turns of phrases
808
00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:43,880
that zip along, like, "I stay up,
clean the house,
809
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:45,320
"at least I'm not drinking.
810
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:47,800
"Run around, just so I don't have to
think about thinking,"
811
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:50,200
like, they just had such
a good metre to them.
812
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:52,960
I stay up, clean the house
813
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:55,960
At least I'm not drinking
814
00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:03,520
Run around just so I don't have
to think about thinking...
815
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:07,640
I've been through times where I have
been so fucked up about situations
816
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:10,240
that I've had to just write
everything down,
817
00:49:10,240 --> 00:49:12,360
even feelings that I don't want
to acknowledge,
818
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:14,760
especially feelings that I don't
want to acknowledge,
819
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:17,840
and things that I wish were
not true, when they are.
820
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:21,320
Just good because someone else might
hear that and be like,
821
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:25,720
"I'm not an idiot for feeling them
things, or I'm not weak for feeling
822
00:49:25,720 --> 00:49:30,480
"them things, or I'm not a mug for
feeling them things about this man."
823
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:32,600
By the bed
824
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:35,800
Pour myself over him
825
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:39,520
Moon spilling in
826
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:45,840
And I wake up alone...
827
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:51,320
And really the artists that most
people connect with at the
828
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:55,800
end of the day are the ones
like Amy and Kurt Cobain -
829
00:49:55,800 --> 00:50:00,280
the people that almost become these
martyr-like figures -
830
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:05,760
is really more because of the pain
that they expressed helps so
831
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:07,760
many people get through pain.
832
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:14,040
And I wake up alone
833
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:21,240
And I wake up alone.
835
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:33,800
The emotions that inspired a lot of
Amy's songs in Back To Black
836
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:38,400
had evolved over quite a long period
of time, maybe a couple of years.
837
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:45,360
This was before
she was really in a bad place,
838
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:49,080
but there were signs that things
weren't looking great.
839
00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:52,320
The radio was on and it was at the
time when there was a lot
840
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:54,240
going on in Afghanistan.
841
00:50:54,240 --> 00:50:56,480
..Taliban and Al-Qaeda units.
842
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:58,680
One of the sort of buzz words
843
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:02,000
that was almost thrown around
was "holy war".
844
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:04,040
She was clever,
845
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:08,840
she flipped what was happening at
the time into her conflict, her war.
846
00:51:10,240 --> 00:51:14,280
Oh-lo-lo, oh-ohh...
847
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:16,400
Still figuring out the lyrics.
848
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:20,960
Oh-oh, ohh-ohh
849
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:27,880
Oh-oh-oh, ohh, ohh-ohh
850
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:35,320
Oh-oh-oh, ohh, ohh-ohh
851
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:38,680
Put it in writing
852
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:43,360
But who you writing for?
853
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:46,280
Just us on the kitchen floor
854
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:50,520
Justice done reciting
855
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:56,440
My stomach standing still
856
00:51:56,440 --> 00:52:00,040
Like you're reading my will...
857
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:04,960
That song really resonates,
there's something about it,
858
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:08,280
it's a little dark, but there is
something about it that just
859
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:11,680
kind of holds you in the moment
when you listen to it.
860
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:17,400
I think also very metaphoric. A lot
of metaphor. A lot of metaphors.
861
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:19,840
Triple entendres - beyond double.
862
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:24,720
Yeah, she would say something
and it wasn't blatant,
863
00:52:24,720 --> 00:52:26,760
but it was very clear.
864
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:30,120
I never got the idea like she was
looking at ever having a hit record
865
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:31,640
or anything like that -
866
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:34,920
she was just trying to express
herself and tell her story.
867
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:38,080
There was a mission that she was on,
868
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:40,240
with this music.
869
00:52:40,240 --> 00:52:41,720
Yeah.
870
00:52:41,720 --> 00:52:44,000
You know, "If my man was fighting
an unholy war,
871
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:45,360
"I would be right beside him."
872
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:49,120
This is a Blake record, this is
watching a guy go through something
873
00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:52,280
and not knowing how to, you know,
874
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:55,920
really figure out what to do
to save him.
875
00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:00,640
There's something haunting about it.
876
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:09,240
I love the horns, and I was...
877
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:15,400
They almost sounded like
funny bugles,
878
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:18,720
they just sounded like
a sad bugle trumpet,
879
00:53:18,720 --> 00:53:22,320
like, "We're not marching anywhere,
we're actually losing this war."
880
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:24,480
It brought something else out of it.
881
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:28,600
Even the...
882
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:32,240
It's like a marching band
that's going the wrong way,
883
00:53:32,240 --> 00:53:34,720
so it's like the record really
captures something.
884
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:40,640
My man is fighting some kind of
holy war
885
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:43,520
I will stand beside you...
886
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:47,960
When I say I wrote Back To Black,
I went back to tunnels and
887
00:53:47,960 --> 00:53:50,600
drinking too much and just...
888
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:55,520
..you know,
just being a massive depressive.
889
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:59,280
In spite of what
his scars say...
890
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:02,520
You have to see through people
and see through the world,
891
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:06,680
and you have to like yourself and
be able to spend time on your own,
892
00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:10,720
be your own best friend
as well as your own worst enemy.
893
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:14,680
Just me
894
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:18,760
My dignity
895
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:23,480
And this guitar case...
896
00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:26,520
The slower version of the song,
in what she was saying,
897
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:28,720
it got into her emotionally.
898
00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:35,520
So, often, when Amy performed this,
she would perform the slow version
899
00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:38,920
to start,
and then go on to the up-tempo.
900
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:46,600
My man is fighting
some unholy war
901
00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:50,640
And I'll stand beside him
902
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:54,800
But who are you dying for?
903
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:58,480
I would have died too
I'd have liked to
904
00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:02,560
If my man was fighting
905
00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:07,240
Some unholy war
906
00:55:07,240 --> 00:55:10,920
If my man was fighting...
907
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:13,440
When I saw her at one of her shows,
908
00:55:13,440 --> 00:55:18,600
I knew she was slipping
cos I knew it from my own life,
909
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:21,280
I knew she was addicted to
the drugs and the alcohol.
910
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:26,120
And I could tell, I said,
"Please don't, I almost went there,
911
00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:27,360
"don't go there."
912
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:32,760
It was the attention that
that record brought onto her that
913
00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:35,360
was incredibly unhealthy for her.
914
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:37,640
Amy! Amy! Amy!
915
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:41,640
But I think it's the record that
completely turned her from
916
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:43,960
being a respected artist into
917
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:47,480
an international global-selling
superstar.
918
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:51,800
The beauty of it is that it reached
out to so many people.
919
00:55:53,520 --> 00:55:58,800
Unfortunately with so many people
comes...a whole circus of madness.
922
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:14,240
Fans who don't know what's
going on behind,
923
00:56:14,240 --> 00:56:17,680
go and see the shows and go,
"I was blown away by Amy tonight,"
924
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:22,120
but where I can read between the
lines and I'm then on tenterhooks,
925
00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:24,400
that I was never able to relax.
926
00:56:27,920 --> 00:56:31,360
Even when she performed on the
Pyramid Stage at Glastonbury,
927
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:33,720
and it was one of the biggest
audiences ever,
928
00:56:33,720 --> 00:56:35,840
I think she was already on
the slippery slope.
929
00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:42,520
Fame in that moment wasn't
a great thing for her.
930
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:51,400
But Amy got nominated
for...five Grammys.
931
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:54,840
Said I never
932
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:58,320
I never lose my baby...
933
00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:04,200
But at that time, she was obviously
deep into the drugs,
934
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:07,640
and America took a very tough stance
935
00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:10,480
and didn't want to let her
into the country.
936
00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:14,920
We then had to figure out
what we were going to do.
937
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:19,080
And it was the first time
the Grammys had ever had
938
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:21,360
a satellite performance beamed in.
939
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:24,160
I said no, no, no...
940
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:28,560
That's how important Amy was
and what she was doing at the time.
941
00:57:28,560 --> 00:57:30,760
You'll know, know, know
942
00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:34,440
I ain't got the time
943
00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:38,120
Hey, hey, my daddy thinks I'm fine
944
00:57:38,120 --> 00:57:41,680
He's trying to make me go
to rehab...
946
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:49,480
..to present the Grammy
for Record Of The Year.
947
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:52,200
And the Grammy goes to
Amy Winehouse!
948
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:07,040
I wrote an album I'm proud of
949
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:10,560
but, in all honesty, you don't think
that if you write some songs that
950
00:58:10,560 --> 00:58:13,200
get you over a bad situation
that that kind of thing,
951
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:15,120
like, awards and stuff like that,
952
00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:17,680
you don't think that will come out
of it, ever.
953
00:58:18,920 --> 00:58:20,440
So it's, it's...
954
00:58:20,440 --> 00:58:25,560
..it is a nice surprise, it's not,
you know, something you expect.
955
00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:27,520
It was lovely, though.
956
00:58:27,520 --> 00:58:30,040
I'll go back to
957
00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:34,360
I go back to
958
00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:38,280
We always said goodbye in words
959
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:40,640
I died a hundred times
960
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:44,840
You go back to her
961
00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:49,160
And I'll go back to
962
00:58:49,160 --> 00:58:53,560
We only said goodbye with words
963
00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:56,600
I died a hundred times
964
00:58:56,600 --> 00:59:00,280
You go back to her
965
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:06,720
And I go back to black.
80542
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