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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:46,698 --> 00:00:50,267 It's... I think it's... It's whatever's here. 2 00:00:52,573 --> 00:00:55,054 Whatever is here is... 3 00:00:55,185 --> 00:00:56,447 Is it trying to harm you? 4 00:00:56,577 --> 00:00:57,709 Yes. 5 00:00:57,839 --> 00:01:01,539 It's like a black shadow that forms a hood. 6 00:01:01,669 --> 00:01:03,584 Surrounded by pastoral charm 7 00:01:03,715 --> 00:01:05,499 in a quaint Long Island township 8 00:01:05,630 --> 00:01:07,110 stands a wooden frame house 9 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:08,520 that some folk claim is haunted. 10 00:01:27,304 --> 00:01:28,305 George and Kathleen Lutz 11 00:01:28,435 --> 00:01:29,543 are with us this morning to talk about 12 00:01:29,567 --> 00:01:31,308 what happened in Amityville. 13 00:01:31,438 --> 00:01:33,397 Within a week, Kathy's hand had been touched 14 00:01:33,527 --> 00:01:36,791 by something that we discussed and couldn't explain. 15 00:01:36,922 --> 00:01:38,228 It was just something unseen. 16 00:01:38,358 --> 00:01:40,578 We also had hordes of flies 17 00:01:40,708 --> 00:01:43,189 that would appear within two rooms. 18 00:01:43,320 --> 00:01:44,625 You played George in the movie. 19 00:01:44,756 --> 00:01:47,280 Mm-hmm. - And you did research this. 20 00:01:47,411 --> 00:01:49,456 I didn't realize what I was getting into. 21 00:01:49,587 --> 00:01:52,764 The Amityville Horror is an experience in terror 22 00:01:52,894 --> 00:01:55,549 you will never forget. 23 00:02:03,644 --> 00:02:06,299 I remember the tagline. "For God's sakes, get out." 24 00:02:11,957 --> 00:02:13,567 Do you plan to show the movie here? 25 00:02:13,698 --> 00:02:14,873 No, we don't. 26 00:02:15,003 --> 00:02:16,962 Our people put up quite a stink. 27 00:02:17,092 --> 00:02:21,532 And the distributor agreed not to show it in Amityville. 28 00:02:21,662 --> 00:02:24,926 People forgot after seeing The Amityville Horror 29 00:02:25,057 --> 00:02:28,278 the true tragedy of really what happened. 30 00:02:33,761 --> 00:02:36,286 I lost a whole family in one night. 31 00:02:38,636 --> 00:02:41,639 And I couldn't bring them back. 32 00:02:43,684 --> 00:02:45,773 A young man murdered, in cold blood, 33 00:02:45,904 --> 00:02:48,776 his father, mother, four brothers, and sisters 34 00:02:48,907 --> 00:02:52,258 because voices told him to do it. 35 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:54,869 Nobody was drugged. 36 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:56,871 Nobody heard any shots. 37 00:02:57,002 --> 00:03:00,266 And to this day, all the clever lawyers 38 00:03:00,397 --> 00:03:03,617 and all the police officers have no answer to this. 39 00:03:03,748 --> 00:03:07,882 Because they just aren't qualified to understand it. 40 00:04:22,653 --> 00:04:25,395 We also had hordes of flies 41 00:04:25,525 --> 00:04:27,919 that would appear within two rooms. 42 00:04:28,049 --> 00:04:30,356 And no matter how many times we would kill them, 43 00:04:30,487 --> 00:04:32,489 they'd reappeared. 44 00:04:32,619 --> 00:04:34,534 My name is Christopher Quaratino. 45 00:04:34,665 --> 00:04:36,928 I'm formerly known as Christopher Lutz, 46 00:04:37,058 --> 00:04:39,104 Kathy Lutz's son. 47 00:04:39,234 --> 00:04:42,455 The Amityville Horror is called a true story. 48 00:04:42,586 --> 00:04:45,545 And what really happened is, 49 00:04:45,676 --> 00:04:49,984 to me, more traumatic. 50 00:04:50,115 --> 00:04:53,814 And it was something that I would like to have 51 00:04:53,945 --> 00:04:56,034 just forgotten about. 52 00:04:59,516 --> 00:05:01,076 Unfortunately, I wasn't able to do that. 53 00:05:01,126 --> 00:05:03,911 And now, it's time to set that record straight. 54 00:05:19,927 --> 00:05:21,818 The first time I went to go see the house in Amityville 55 00:05:21,842 --> 00:05:25,672 would've been when my parents were serious about buying it. 56 00:05:25,803 --> 00:05:28,022 The real estate agent was there. 57 00:05:28,153 --> 00:05:29,850 I was just a kid. 58 00:05:29,981 --> 00:05:32,810 And I'm, like, checking out this new, big sprawling place, 59 00:05:32,940 --> 00:05:34,377 a new playground. 60 00:05:36,988 --> 00:05:39,599 To me, it was like, this place is huge. 61 00:05:39,730 --> 00:05:42,385 We'd never had a house that large. 62 00:05:44,169 --> 00:05:47,390 George and Kathy asked me to go out with them 63 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:48,695 to look at the house 64 00:05:48,826 --> 00:05:50,654 that they were interested in buying. 65 00:05:52,133 --> 00:05:54,005 It went right up to the sound. 66 00:05:54,135 --> 00:05:57,704 So the... the water was right behind the house. 67 00:05:57,835 --> 00:05:59,402 There was a big stretch of land 68 00:05:59,532 --> 00:06:01,621 to get from the house to the sound. 69 00:06:01,752 --> 00:06:03,536 And there was a whole boathouse. 70 00:06:06,844 --> 00:06:10,500 It was very pretty neighborhood, very quiet. 71 00:06:18,595 --> 00:06:19,987 They gave me a camera 72 00:06:20,118 --> 00:06:23,469 and they asked me to take pictures of the house. 73 00:06:26,254 --> 00:06:29,432 And we spent a good hour or so walking around the house 74 00:06:29,562 --> 00:06:32,783 'cause it was a big house. 75 00:06:32,913 --> 00:06:35,568 We walked in and there was this marble floor... 76 00:06:38,223 --> 00:06:41,661 a beautiful banister going up three stories... 77 00:06:44,185 --> 00:06:47,058 and you could look from the foyer and look up 78 00:06:47,188 --> 00:06:50,757 and you could see the balcony on the third-floor landing. 79 00:06:50,888 --> 00:06:53,717 It was beautiful. The house was gorgeous. 80 00:06:53,847 --> 00:06:55,849 You'll see what a beauty this is. 81 00:07:01,638 --> 00:07:03,944 There's nothing like it on the market, 82 00:07:04,075 --> 00:07:05,816 not at this price. 83 00:07:08,949 --> 00:07:11,517 Come in. Come on in. Thank you. 84 00:07:11,648 --> 00:07:12,648 Impressive, isn't it? 85 00:07:12,736 --> 00:07:14,172 Mm-hmm. 86 00:07:14,302 --> 00:07:15,956 As soon as Kathy walked in the front door, 87 00:07:16,087 --> 00:07:20,265 she just had this smile like this was it. 88 00:07:20,395 --> 00:07:22,049 I describe the house as charming 89 00:07:22,180 --> 00:07:23,181 the first time I saw it 90 00:07:23,311 --> 00:07:24,835 because that's what I thought of it. 91 00:07:34,235 --> 00:07:37,282 Before we left, George and Kathy asked me 92 00:07:37,412 --> 00:07:40,807 if I felt anything in the house. 93 00:07:40,938 --> 00:07:43,810 I don't know why, but there was just something 94 00:07:43,941 --> 00:07:45,943 that made me feel strange. 95 00:07:48,815 --> 00:07:51,862 And that's when they showed me the bullet holes. 96 00:08:16,713 --> 00:08:18,233 When George showed me the bullet holes, 97 00:08:18,323 --> 00:08:21,500 he was actually laughing, 98 00:08:21,631 --> 00:08:23,807 not because of what had happened, 99 00:08:23,937 --> 00:08:27,506 but for the fact that he did not believe that 100 00:08:27,637 --> 00:08:29,856 there was anything in this house 101 00:08:29,987 --> 00:08:32,598 that would stop him from buying it. 102 00:08:35,079 --> 00:08:40,040 The house was on the market for $100,000. 103 00:08:40,171 --> 00:08:44,001 We made an offer of $80,000. It was accepted. 104 00:08:44,131 --> 00:08:46,220 And we moved into this beautiful 105 00:08:46,351 --> 00:08:49,963 4,000 square foot home 106 00:08:50,094 --> 00:08:54,838 on the water with a heated pool, full basement, 107 00:08:54,968 --> 00:08:56,753 boathouse, garage, 108 00:08:56,883 --> 00:08:59,625 and we thought we were home. 109 00:09:29,873 --> 00:09:31,657 My mom had divorced my real dad 110 00:09:31,788 --> 00:09:34,704 when I was about five. 111 00:09:34,834 --> 00:09:37,228 Mom was Irish. Dad was Italian. 112 00:09:37,358 --> 00:09:40,579 โ™ช Started a business deal 113 00:09:40,710 --> 00:09:43,016 My mom was an angel. 114 00:09:43,147 --> 00:09:44,931 They had my older brother Danny first. 115 00:09:45,062 --> 00:09:46,846 And then I was second. 116 00:09:46,977 --> 00:09:50,241 And then came my younger sister Melissa. 117 00:09:50,371 --> 00:09:52,809 โ™ช Love was the last Thing that crossed my mind โ™ช 118 00:09:52,939 --> 00:09:56,029 โ™ช But business 119 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:58,031 After the divorce, 120 00:09:58,162 --> 00:10:01,948 Mom, she was working as a waitress. 121 00:10:02,079 --> 00:10:05,212 George used to come in to where she'd work 122 00:10:05,343 --> 00:10:09,129 and sit in her section, and he was fond of her. 123 00:10:11,088 --> 00:10:13,307 One night, her car wouldn't start. 124 00:10:13,438 --> 00:10:15,005 She began to walk home. 125 00:10:16,354 --> 00:10:18,704 George showed up as a hero on his Harley, 126 00:10:18,835 --> 00:10:19,966 gave her a ride home. 127 00:10:20,097 --> 00:10:21,707 And pretty soon, Mom had sold her house 128 00:10:21,838 --> 00:10:24,928 and we moved into the Amityville house. 129 00:10:31,108 --> 00:10:32,718 My mom was excited about it. 130 00:10:32,849 --> 00:10:35,155 It was an exciting time for all of us. 131 00:10:51,432 --> 00:10:54,174 On the cuff of my jeans, all my jeans, 132 00:10:54,305 --> 00:10:57,438 I had angel wings with Harley-Davidson in the middle. 133 00:10:57,569 --> 00:11:02,705 They were, like, three inches wide, an inch tall. 134 00:11:02,835 --> 00:11:05,925 And this guy next to me is looking at my cuff and says, 135 00:11:06,056 --> 00:11:09,015 "Hey, uh, you ride a motorcycle?" 136 00:11:09,146 --> 00:11:11,017 I said, "Yeah, I have a Harley-Davidson." 137 00:11:11,148 --> 00:11:15,935 He says, "Yeah, so do I. My name is George Lutz." 138 00:11:16,066 --> 00:11:19,722 He said his grandfather owned a surveying company, 139 00:11:19,852 --> 00:11:22,812 and he was now running the business, 140 00:11:22,942 --> 00:11:25,379 which gave him time, I think, to hang out 141 00:11:25,510 --> 00:11:26,859 on the Harley-Davidson. 142 00:11:40,220 --> 00:11:43,746 In those days, guys were chopping their motorcycles, 143 00:11:43,876 --> 00:11:47,184 extended front ends, lots of chrome, 144 00:11:47,314 --> 00:11:49,055 high handlebars. 145 00:11:49,186 --> 00:11:50,883 And I rode with a bunch of guys that 146 00:11:51,014 --> 00:11:53,059 had bikes like that. 147 00:11:53,190 --> 00:11:57,237 And that's the group I introduced George to. 148 00:11:57,368 --> 00:11:58,804 And we just took him into the group 149 00:11:58,935 --> 00:12:01,894 like he was one of the guys. 150 00:12:05,071 --> 00:12:05,942 I think the first time 151 00:12:06,072 --> 00:12:07,204 I remember meeting George, 152 00:12:07,334 --> 00:12:10,033 he showed up on that Harley trike. 153 00:12:10,163 --> 00:12:11,662 By then, I was riding a two-wheel bike, 154 00:12:11,686 --> 00:12:13,558 but I still had my big wheel. 155 00:12:13,688 --> 00:12:15,888 And I saw that Harley trike with the wheelie bars on it. 156 00:12:15,995 --> 00:12:19,085 And its loud engine was, like, 157 00:12:19,216 --> 00:12:22,262 you know, definitely cooler than my big wheel. 158 00:12:22,393 --> 00:12:24,525 I remember he gave us kids each a ride on it. 159 00:12:24,656 --> 00:12:28,007 And it was pretty impressive. 160 00:12:28,965 --> 00:12:30,357 He was into Harleys big time. 161 00:12:30,488 --> 00:12:34,492 He also had a really big chopper. 162 00:12:34,622 --> 00:12:37,277 It was fun to be around. 163 00:12:37,408 --> 00:12:40,498 Early on, everything was like, it's a new friend. 164 00:12:40,628 --> 00:12:41,934 He's got cool things. 165 00:12:42,065 --> 00:12:44,284 And he was a black belt in jujitsu. 166 00:12:44,415 --> 00:12:47,418 He started getting us boys involved in jujitsu classes 167 00:12:47,548 --> 00:12:49,855 and starting to learn to fight and how to defend yourself. 168 00:12:49,986 --> 00:12:52,118 And so it was all new. 169 00:12:52,249 --> 00:12:55,078 It was somebody that was a man figure that was there 170 00:12:55,208 --> 00:12:59,865 and kind to us, and... And, uh, and Mom liked him, 171 00:12:59,996 --> 00:13:01,432 and that was that. 172 00:13:05,131 --> 00:13:07,177 After he married Kathy, 173 00:13:07,307 --> 00:13:11,094 the children looked like they were very happy with George. 174 00:13:11,224 --> 00:13:13,139 They got along with him well. 175 00:13:13,270 --> 00:13:16,012 He seemed to be a very good father, 176 00:13:16,142 --> 00:13:19,102 especially to the boys. 177 00:13:19,232 --> 00:13:21,887 I think Danny was nine, 178 00:13:22,018 --> 00:13:23,149 Christopher was seven, 179 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:26,805 and Missy was five and she was adorable. 180 00:13:26,936 --> 00:13:29,025 All the kids were really nice. 181 00:13:31,027 --> 00:13:34,247 Kathy was a very good mother. 182 00:13:34,378 --> 00:13:37,033 She was a very sweet, innocent, 183 00:13:37,163 --> 00:13:40,645 beautiful, beautiful person. 184 00:13:40,775 --> 00:13:43,430 George and Kathy were young parents. 185 00:13:49,045 --> 00:13:50,394 We love this house. 186 00:13:50,524 --> 00:13:52,178 We were so happy to get that house. 187 00:13:52,309 --> 00:13:55,399 We really wanted to live there. 188 00:13:55,529 --> 00:13:57,227 There was such a desire on our part 189 00:13:57,357 --> 00:14:02,145 to move in and be a family there. 190 00:14:02,275 --> 00:14:03,973 It was the time where I was just a kid 191 00:14:04,103 --> 00:14:07,541 and running around different places 192 00:14:07,672 --> 00:14:08,934 to explore and look around. 193 00:14:09,065 --> 00:14:12,329 And I was exploring my new room 194 00:14:12,459 --> 00:14:17,377 and looking out that quarter round window. 195 00:14:17,508 --> 00:14:19,423 We'd only been in two-story homes before, 196 00:14:19,553 --> 00:14:22,295 so a three-story was, like, cool. 197 00:14:24,254 --> 00:14:27,039 I remember about that bedroom that 198 00:14:27,170 --> 00:14:30,086 the weird and kind of colorful and cool 199 00:14:30,216 --> 00:14:33,219 and interesting wallpaper. 200 00:14:33,350 --> 00:14:36,092 The one wall being all, like, dots, 201 00:14:36,222 --> 00:14:38,094 but then the other side where it had, like, 202 00:14:38,224 --> 00:14:40,357 all these old-fashioned drawings. 203 00:14:40,487 --> 00:14:44,317 And I remember a lady on there with a hat. 204 00:14:47,494 --> 00:14:51,107 In my closet, there was a hook. 205 00:14:51,237 --> 00:14:54,980 I had this bag that had a drawstring, 206 00:14:55,111 --> 00:14:57,896 and I hooked it on there. 207 00:15:09,386 --> 00:15:12,128 The weight of it caused the paneling... 208 00:15:12,258 --> 00:15:14,391 to tip forward. 209 00:15:17,263 --> 00:15:20,005 And that revealed, like, an area 210 00:15:20,136 --> 00:15:22,312 that was behind there. 211 00:15:43,855 --> 00:15:46,727 The Realtor told us after we had toured the house, 212 00:15:46,858 --> 00:15:50,340 this is the house the DeFeos were murdered in, 213 00:15:50,470 --> 00:15:55,214 the news stories that had been a year earlier. 214 00:15:55,345 --> 00:15:58,304 We talked about it at length as a family. 215 00:15:58,435 --> 00:16:00,263 We asked the kids, "Look, you're gonna have 216 00:16:00,393 --> 00:16:02,395 the same bedrooms that these kids had, 217 00:16:02,526 --> 00:16:03,546 and they were killed here." 218 00:16:03,570 --> 00:16:07,226 "Is that gonna be a problem?" 219 00:16:07,357 --> 00:16:10,403 And they were all fine with it. 220 00:16:10,534 --> 00:16:13,319 It wasn't a snap decision by any means. 221 00:16:16,757 --> 00:16:19,151 George told me that he bought the house. 222 00:16:19,282 --> 00:16:21,762 He paid 80,000 for it, 223 00:16:21,893 --> 00:16:23,503 had to furnish it, 224 00:16:23,634 --> 00:16:25,723 bought some of the furniture that was in the house 225 00:16:25,853 --> 00:16:27,986 from the DeFeo estate. 226 00:16:39,780 --> 00:16:41,521 When he first saw the house, 227 00:16:41,652 --> 00:16:44,089 there was still some blood in some of the rooms 228 00:16:44,220 --> 00:16:46,091 and on some of the furniture. 229 00:16:46,222 --> 00:16:47,440 It was kind of strange. 230 00:17:36,402 --> 00:17:38,274 On the second floor, 231 00:17:38,404 --> 00:17:40,232 in the sewing room, 232 00:17:40,363 --> 00:17:41,383 there was a lot of flies there, 233 00:17:41,407 --> 00:17:42,515 and that was the first place 234 00:17:42,539 --> 00:17:44,236 that I had seen them. 235 00:17:47,326 --> 00:17:50,416 There was times when you'd feel a chill. 236 00:18:23,275 --> 00:18:26,104 And then, I remember the awkward moment 237 00:18:26,235 --> 00:18:27,627 where I was in the basement 238 00:18:27,758 --> 00:18:33,198 and Mom and George were down there. 239 00:18:33,329 --> 00:18:35,461 And I remember asking, 240 00:18:35,592 --> 00:18:39,944 "Is this where they hid the bodies?" 241 00:18:40,074 --> 00:18:41,815 I remember Mom looking at George 242 00:18:41,946 --> 00:18:43,600 and George looking at Mom, 243 00:18:43,730 --> 00:18:45,167 and then they all looked at me. 244 00:18:45,297 --> 00:18:47,778 And nobody answered the question. 245 00:19:02,358 --> 00:19:04,273 The Maharishi Mahesh Yogis program 246 00:19:04,403 --> 00:19:06,231 of transcendental meditation attracted 247 00:19:06,362 --> 00:19:08,407 thousands of followers. 248 00:19:10,670 --> 00:19:12,977 George was into this new thing 249 00:19:13,107 --> 00:19:14,457 that I didn't know anything about. 250 00:19:14,587 --> 00:19:16,328 It was new to me, anyway. 251 00:19:16,459 --> 00:19:20,680 It was called transcendental meditation. 252 00:19:20,811 --> 00:19:24,815 He would sit in this specific position sitting on the floor, 253 00:19:24,945 --> 00:19:27,687 legs crossed, palms open, 254 00:19:27,818 --> 00:19:30,429 and holding his fingers in a weird way, 255 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,563 and say these sounds. 256 00:19:33,693 --> 00:19:35,434 Every single student at the university 257 00:19:35,565 --> 00:19:39,221 is a regular practitioner of transcendental meditation. 258 00:19:41,092 --> 00:19:43,268 It's nothing out of the ordinary at all. 259 00:19:43,399 --> 00:19:44,530 At times, one... 260 00:19:44,661 --> 00:19:46,532 He got my mom into it. 261 00:19:46,663 --> 00:19:49,535 Of their vast organization. 262 00:19:49,666 --> 00:19:53,322 We were both into practicing transcendental meditation. 263 00:19:55,976 --> 00:19:57,456 I don't think she ever had anything 264 00:19:57,587 --> 00:20:01,373 to do with it prior to them getting together. 265 00:20:16,606 --> 00:20:18,869 It was a pretty regular thing that they did. 266 00:20:18,999 --> 00:20:20,827 And they would want time to be able to do it. 267 00:20:20,958 --> 00:20:24,440 And we would be quiet, 268 00:20:24,570 --> 00:20:28,008 whether it was up in our own rooms or outside. 269 00:20:28,139 --> 00:20:32,926 I recall them wanting a long time to meditate, so... 270 00:20:40,020 --> 00:20:44,416 That was my introduction to transcendental meditation. 271 00:20:47,593 --> 00:20:49,726 And he had me doing it with him. 272 00:20:56,820 --> 00:21:00,345 I was practicing transcendental meditation. 273 00:21:00,476 --> 00:21:02,565 And on one occasion, 274 00:21:02,695 --> 00:21:05,524 during the meditation, 275 00:21:05,655 --> 00:21:09,354 something reached out and took hold of my hand. 276 00:21:13,532 --> 00:21:16,535 And my only description for it was 277 00:21:16,666 --> 00:21:18,755 the touch of a woman, 278 00:21:18,885 --> 00:21:20,931 simply because you could feel a softness. 279 00:21:21,061 --> 00:21:24,456 But yet, you know there was an inner strength involved. 280 00:21:26,502 --> 00:21:27,677 I thought she was kidding 281 00:21:27,807 --> 00:21:31,376 and she, you know, reiterated it again. 282 00:21:31,507 --> 00:21:34,031 And I believed her. 283 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:41,647 She was concerned enough to tell me about it. 284 00:21:41,778 --> 00:21:43,562 And we really put it down to 285 00:21:43,693 --> 00:21:47,479 just being overtired and moving in. 286 00:21:47,610 --> 00:21:50,569 We moved in a week before Christmas, 1975. 287 00:21:50,700 --> 00:21:53,659 So we were very anxious to get set up for Christmas. 288 00:21:53,790 --> 00:21:57,576 We had a lot of company coming the following week. 289 00:22:01,188 --> 00:22:03,843 And on a weekend, there were a number of people 290 00:22:03,974 --> 00:22:05,802 who were going to go and help them 291 00:22:05,932 --> 00:22:09,893 move their stuff into the house. 292 00:22:10,023 --> 00:22:11,416 What do you think? 293 00:22:11,547 --> 00:22:13,462 My ex-husband and I, 294 00:22:13,592 --> 00:22:15,899 both of us were gonna go to the house 295 00:22:16,029 --> 00:22:17,770 and help him move in. 296 00:22:17,901 --> 00:22:21,513 When we got to the house, I just became violently sick. 297 00:22:21,644 --> 00:22:24,995 I got very dizzy. I felt very nauseous. 298 00:22:25,125 --> 00:22:27,867 And I told my husband, I said, "I can't go in there." 299 00:22:27,998 --> 00:22:29,173 What's the matter? 300 00:22:29,303 --> 00:22:31,697 And I felt like I was gonna pass out 301 00:22:31,828 --> 00:22:33,268 sitting in the car outside the house. 302 00:22:33,307 --> 00:22:35,788 I don't want to go any closer. 303 00:22:35,919 --> 00:22:38,530 Carolyn, what are you talking about? 304 00:22:38,661 --> 00:22:40,967 Get out. 305 00:22:41,098 --> 00:22:43,579 It gives me the creeps. 306 00:22:43,709 --> 00:22:45,711 George and Kathy wanted to have, like, 307 00:22:45,842 --> 00:22:48,845 a housewarming holiday party together. 308 00:22:48,975 --> 00:22:52,457 Again, the exact same thing that happened to me in the car 309 00:22:52,588 --> 00:22:54,111 happened to me in the apartment. 310 00:22:54,241 --> 00:22:55,852 I got dizzy. 311 00:22:55,982 --> 00:22:57,549 I got sick. 312 00:22:57,680 --> 00:22:59,856 I felt like I was gonna pass out. 313 00:22:59,986 --> 00:23:02,685 And I never made it to the party. 314 00:23:02,815 --> 00:23:04,730 I never made it out the door. 315 00:23:04,861 --> 00:23:09,126 It was just a unbelievable feeling. 316 00:23:23,619 --> 00:23:29,755 And after that, I had other encounters 317 00:23:29,886 --> 00:23:33,455 with a presence either in our bedroom, 318 00:23:33,585 --> 00:23:37,415 the kitchen, or the dining room. 319 00:23:37,546 --> 00:23:39,635 Missy came down on one occasion. 320 00:23:39,765 --> 00:23:44,640 And she said, "Mommy, do angels talk?" 321 00:23:44,770 --> 00:23:48,121 And I asked her to explain her question. 322 00:23:48,252 --> 00:23:52,517 And she said, "Well, something talks to me, 323 00:23:52,648 --> 00:23:55,868 and I answer." 324 00:23:55,999 --> 00:24:00,612 And I shrugged it off, a child's vivid imagination. 325 00:24:00,743 --> 00:24:03,180 On several occasions, 326 00:24:03,310 --> 00:24:06,096 I'd go and stand in front of Missy's closed door, 327 00:24:06,226 --> 00:24:09,447 and I would hear her carrying on a conversation. 328 00:24:09,578 --> 00:24:11,188 And I would hear the answer. 329 00:24:11,318 --> 00:24:12,581 And I opened the door. 330 00:24:12,711 --> 00:24:15,671 You could hear the sounds of an answer. 331 00:24:15,801 --> 00:24:17,629 - Of another voice? - I would open the door. 332 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:19,085 And Missy would be sitting on her bed. 333 00:24:19,109 --> 00:24:21,764 And she had a small rocking chair in the room. 334 00:24:21,894 --> 00:24:23,132 And the chair would be rocking. 335 00:24:23,156 --> 00:24:25,768 You couldn't see anything sitting in it. 336 00:24:25,898 --> 00:24:28,597 And Missy was talking in the direction of the chair. 337 00:24:34,864 --> 00:24:37,606 And then Missy told us about Jody. 338 00:24:41,610 --> 00:24:45,004 - You scared Jody. - Jody? 339 00:24:45,135 --> 00:24:46,832 She tells me about the little boy 340 00:24:46,963 --> 00:24:48,791 who used to live in my room. 341 00:24:48,921 --> 00:24:51,533 He got hurt and he died. 342 00:24:52,969 --> 00:24:57,190 Missy said that there was this pig. 343 00:24:57,321 --> 00:24:59,236 We put it to her imagination 344 00:24:59,366 --> 00:25:02,282 until there were 345 00:25:02,413 --> 00:25:05,982 hoofprints out in the snow. 346 00:25:11,335 --> 00:25:13,555 Something walked from the house, 347 00:25:13,685 --> 00:25:15,600 through the snow, out to the river, 348 00:25:15,731 --> 00:25:17,515 and right off into the water. 349 00:25:25,349 --> 00:25:27,177 Christmas came. 350 00:25:27,307 --> 00:25:30,876 Danny and I started fighting more than ever. 351 00:25:31,007 --> 00:25:36,578 My brother is, you know, kind of an instigator. 352 00:25:37,883 --> 00:25:40,103 The whole wall along the playroom, 353 00:25:40,233 --> 00:25:43,062 it was closet area. 354 00:25:43,193 --> 00:25:47,893 And my brother convinced me to go in there and get something. 355 00:25:48,024 --> 00:25:50,243 He shut the door. 356 00:25:50,374 --> 00:25:51,810 And I couldn't get out. 357 00:25:55,509 --> 00:25:59,905 Backing up, something grabbed the back of my calf. 358 00:26:00,036 --> 00:26:01,733 And it scared the hell out of me. 359 00:26:24,713 --> 00:26:26,671 So I met George in '73 360 00:26:26,802 --> 00:26:29,718 and we spent a lot of time together. 361 00:26:29,848 --> 00:26:32,329 He was just getting his marriage annulled 362 00:26:32,459 --> 00:26:34,766 from his first wife. 363 00:26:35,941 --> 00:26:37,397 Didn't know much about his background, 364 00:26:37,421 --> 00:26:39,945 except he was an ex-Marine. 365 00:26:40,076 --> 00:26:42,644 But he never talked about the military service. 366 00:26:48,432 --> 00:26:51,130 George did say that he served in Vietnam. 367 00:26:52,915 --> 00:26:55,744 There was something 368 00:26:55,874 --> 00:26:57,789 that he didn't want to talk about 369 00:26:57,920 --> 00:26:59,835 when it came to his service in Vietnam. 370 00:27:03,882 --> 00:27:06,232 And too many people, my friends, 371 00:27:06,363 --> 00:27:07,973 the ones that did come back, 372 00:27:08,104 --> 00:27:09,714 they were not the same. 373 00:27:12,543 --> 00:27:15,285 Over 1,000 Vietnam vets came here to say 374 00:27:15,415 --> 00:27:19,158 the war was a horrible mistake and should end. 375 00:27:19,289 --> 00:27:20,638 The protest was angry 376 00:27:20,769 --> 00:27:22,292 and more passionate than most 377 00:27:22,422 --> 00:27:24,250 because these vets had borne witness. 378 00:27:24,381 --> 00:27:26,862 The men have a flair for drama, 379 00:27:26,992 --> 00:27:29,386 throwing back the medals they had won in Vietnam. 380 00:27:29,516 --> 00:27:32,302 They were still unsatisfied. 381 00:27:35,131 --> 00:27:37,916 The Vietnam veteran is a fascinating 382 00:27:38,047 --> 00:27:41,703 and tragic figure in American history, 383 00:27:41,833 --> 00:27:44,836 particularly in the '70s. 384 00:27:44,967 --> 00:27:52,322 They carried the guilt of this absurd and useless operation. 385 00:27:52,452 --> 00:27:55,455 And they don't return home to any kind of homecoming, 386 00:27:55,586 --> 00:27:57,806 any kind of celebration. 387 00:28:06,466 --> 00:28:09,208 A lot of vets returning, finding themselves alienated 388 00:28:09,339 --> 00:28:12,385 both from mainstream America and from the counterculture, 389 00:28:12,516 --> 00:28:15,214 would find themselves joining biker gangs 390 00:28:15,345 --> 00:28:17,956 because it's a way of building up a kind of identity 391 00:28:18,087 --> 00:28:20,219 that is independent 392 00:28:20,350 --> 00:28:23,353 and as a way of dealing with the dislocation 393 00:28:23,483 --> 00:28:26,182 and confusion of that era. 394 00:28:30,926 --> 00:28:35,017 The logic of a biker gang is not dissimilar than a platoon. 395 00:28:35,147 --> 00:28:38,934 That sense of camaraderie in a hostile universe, 396 00:28:39,064 --> 00:28:41,458 it carries over into a biker gang, 397 00:28:41,588 --> 00:28:44,200 where you're really there for your fellow bikers. 398 00:28:44,330 --> 00:28:47,029 And there's an incredible tight bond. 399 00:28:49,205 --> 00:28:51,381 So in a way, they represent the profound 400 00:28:51,511 --> 00:28:54,906 and painful contradictions of the era. 401 00:28:56,952 --> 00:29:00,477 A couple of guys in our group were veterans from Vietnam. 402 00:29:00,607 --> 00:29:02,522 But they never talked about it. 403 00:29:02,653 --> 00:29:04,481 They just enjoyed the camaraderie 404 00:29:04,611 --> 00:29:06,222 and the motorcycles. 405 00:29:08,572 --> 00:29:12,141 George's gas tank was shaped like a coffin. 406 00:29:13,969 --> 00:29:15,840 It was also painted all black. 407 00:29:15,971 --> 00:29:18,103 That says something. 408 00:29:18,234 --> 00:29:21,280 He made sure the trike was his own. 409 00:29:21,411 --> 00:29:25,110 George had himself painted in the prone position 410 00:29:25,241 --> 00:29:30,289 with George laying on the coffin tank, 411 00:29:30,420 --> 00:29:31,987 like he was in a coffin. 412 00:29:41,257 --> 00:29:44,086 When we went to New Hampshire Bike Week, 413 00:29:44,216 --> 00:29:47,306 I think this was in 1975. 414 00:29:49,439 --> 00:29:52,398 And one of the guys said that his brother-in-law 415 00:29:52,529 --> 00:29:55,314 had moved to Weirs Beach. 416 00:29:55,445 --> 00:30:00,450 It was just a short ride down the hill from our hotel. 417 00:30:00,580 --> 00:30:04,541 And his name was Ray Buckland. 418 00:30:04,671 --> 00:30:07,892 I am a follower of the religion of witchcraft, 419 00:30:08,023 --> 00:30:10,939 the pre-Christian religion. 420 00:30:11,069 --> 00:30:13,158 He had a big name in the occult, 421 00:30:13,289 --> 00:30:16,161 wrote books on witchcraft. 422 00:30:16,292 --> 00:30:20,426 We got there and he gave us a tour of the whole house. 423 00:30:20,557 --> 00:30:22,167 Witchcraft and Satanism are 424 00:30:22,298 --> 00:30:25,649 exploding in popularity, especially among youth. 425 00:30:25,779 --> 00:30:28,478 This lecture is given by Dr. Raymond Buckland, 426 00:30:28,608 --> 00:30:31,960 anthropologist and white witch of Long Island, New York. 427 00:30:32,090 --> 00:30:34,571 If we can have the house lights off, 428 00:30:34,701 --> 00:30:38,357 then we'll get into the slides. 429 00:30:38,488 --> 00:30:40,533 His slides show ceremonies 430 00:30:40,664 --> 00:30:42,231 held in his own basement, 431 00:30:42,361 --> 00:30:45,016 where he and his wife, a high priestess, 432 00:30:45,147 --> 00:30:46,496 hold nude rituals 433 00:30:46,626 --> 00:30:49,934 to summon Neolithic gods of the hunt and fertility. 434 00:30:53,503 --> 00:30:56,462 They say these ceremonies can heal the sick, 435 00:30:56,593 --> 00:30:58,900 but they could be used for evil purposes 436 00:30:59,030 --> 00:31:02,033 in the wrong hands. 437 00:31:04,514 --> 00:31:08,518 Ray Buckland originally had a museum in Bayshore 438 00:31:08,648 --> 00:31:10,476 on Long Island. 439 00:31:11,782 --> 00:31:15,394 George also said that he had been to the museum in Bayshore. 440 00:31:22,575 --> 00:31:25,100 And we headed outside, 441 00:31:25,230 --> 00:31:28,103 had a smoke before we got ready to ride again, 442 00:31:28,233 --> 00:31:30,496 but George was nowhere to be found. 443 00:31:30,627 --> 00:31:34,674 He was still in the house talking to Ray. 444 00:31:34,805 --> 00:31:37,155 He finally came outside. 445 00:31:37,286 --> 00:31:39,027 We razzed him a little bit about 446 00:31:39,157 --> 00:31:40,637 what the heck he was doing. 447 00:31:40,767 --> 00:31:42,334 He never said anything about 448 00:31:42,465 --> 00:31:45,381 why he was talking to Ray at any extended length of time. 449 00:31:45,511 --> 00:31:48,514 So we just got on our bikes and rode. 450 00:31:48,645 --> 00:31:51,039 No further mention of it for the rest of the week 451 00:31:51,169 --> 00:31:53,084 and the seven-hour ride home. 452 00:31:53,215 --> 00:31:55,086 Absolutely nothing. 453 00:31:55,217 --> 00:31:56,497 And, you know, we knew each other 454 00:31:56,566 --> 00:31:58,089 pretty well by that time, 455 00:31:58,220 --> 00:32:00,024 'cause I had already been best man at his wedding. 456 00:32:00,048 --> 00:32:02,398 So it was kind of strange. 457 00:32:03,355 --> 00:32:04,966 And he was into meditation. 458 00:32:05,096 --> 00:32:06,595 So every once in a while on the ride home, 459 00:32:06,619 --> 00:32:09,666 he would stop and then meditate. 460 00:32:09,796 --> 00:32:12,930 He's, "I'm gonna meditate, so don't disturb me." 461 00:32:19,371 --> 00:32:21,547 Understanding the human as something that has 462 00:32:21,678 --> 00:32:23,549 these greater potentials 463 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,683 is a super important part of that whole 464 00:32:26,813 --> 00:32:29,642 '70s spiritual mind frame. 465 00:32:29,773 --> 00:32:33,298 There are psychic powers. Telepathy is possible. 466 00:32:33,429 --> 00:32:35,518 So there was a sense that there was an opportunity 467 00:32:35,648 --> 00:32:38,173 to change the self, to explore the self. 468 00:32:38,303 --> 00:32:40,175 What can we actually do 469 00:32:40,305 --> 00:32:42,742 to enhance our own inherent powers? 470 00:32:42,873 --> 00:32:44,440 The occult and the paranormal 471 00:32:44,570 --> 00:32:47,138 and radical psychological techniques, 472 00:32:47,269 --> 00:32:50,011 they were all part of this, as well as drugs. 473 00:32:53,536 --> 00:32:54,580 Did you ever think 474 00:32:54,711 --> 00:32:56,321 maybe you're conjuring this up yourself, 475 00:32:56,452 --> 00:32:57,733 or it could be your own mental powers working on it? 476 00:32:57,757 --> 00:33:00,021 Have you tried anything in that area or... 477 00:33:00,151 --> 00:33:02,153 None of us really had any... 478 00:33:02,284 --> 00:33:05,504 Neither of us had any knowledge of the occult 479 00:33:05,635 --> 00:33:07,506 prior to moving into the home. Nothing? 480 00:33:07,637 --> 00:33:09,397 You hold yourself up for ridicule, for one thing, 481 00:33:09,421 --> 00:33:11,684 to just stand up and say, "This really happened." 482 00:33:11,815 --> 00:33:13,227 I'll tell you what. I wouldn't be afraid 483 00:33:13,251 --> 00:33:14,576 to tell anybody if it happened to me. 484 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:15,751 Come to think of it, again, on second thought, 485 00:33:15,775 --> 00:33:17,057 I'd run around and tell them all, maybe. 486 00:33:17,081 --> 00:33:20,215 Charge admission to the house. 487 00:33:20,345 --> 00:33:22,260 We'd watch the furniture fly or do something. 488 00:33:30,790 --> 00:33:32,705 One of these alternative spiritual practices 489 00:33:32,836 --> 00:33:35,534 was transcendental meditation. 490 00:33:35,665 --> 00:33:38,233 Some of The Beach Boys practiced TM, 491 00:33:38,363 --> 00:33:41,845 and it was kind of a clever practice 492 00:33:41,975 --> 00:33:44,500 because it was relatively simple. 493 00:33:44,630 --> 00:33:48,547 It would fit into an ordinary day. 494 00:33:48,678 --> 00:33:50,593 And yet there was a little bit of magic in it. 495 00:33:50,723 --> 00:33:52,029 You had the secret mantra. 496 00:33:57,817 --> 00:34:00,516 People thought it started to open up magical powers even. 497 00:34:00,646 --> 00:34:02,518 So like a lot of these practices, 498 00:34:02,648 --> 00:34:05,564 they provide immediate rewards, 499 00:34:05,695 --> 00:34:07,392 but then they also open the door 500 00:34:07,523 --> 00:34:09,786 towards the possibility of more mystical 501 00:34:09,916 --> 00:34:11,701 or spiritual kinds of states. 502 00:34:14,704 --> 00:34:19,361 So a mantra is a series of sacred syllables. 503 00:34:19,491 --> 00:34:20,666 And it might mean something, 504 00:34:20,797 --> 00:34:22,668 but the point is to keep repeating it, 505 00:34:22,799 --> 00:34:24,670 not unlike saying a rosary. 506 00:34:24,801 --> 00:34:26,890 And you're repeating the name of a god, 507 00:34:27,020 --> 00:34:29,066 or you're repeating a certain phrase 508 00:34:29,197 --> 00:34:32,156 that you would get from your guru, 509 00:34:32,287 --> 00:34:33,853 a series of sacred syllables 510 00:34:33,984 --> 00:34:37,335 that have some extra power to them. 511 00:34:43,341 --> 00:34:44,429 The word that you repeat 512 00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:46,214 over and over and over again 513 00:34:46,344 --> 00:34:48,303 is actually the name of a spirit. 514 00:34:48,433 --> 00:34:49,565 And what you're doing is, 515 00:34:49,695 --> 00:34:52,916 you're calling that spirit into you. 516 00:34:53,046 --> 00:34:55,310 What George doesn't talk about is 517 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:57,573 the other thing that he was mixing it with. 518 00:35:02,317 --> 00:35:05,276 What I found out is that the list of spirits 519 00:35:05,407 --> 00:35:07,278 that are recommended from 520 00:35:07,409 --> 00:35:09,802 transcendental meditation practitioners, 521 00:35:09,933 --> 00:35:12,762 they tell you what the word is that you're gonna say. 522 00:35:15,068 --> 00:35:16,592 The things that he was calling on 523 00:35:16,722 --> 00:35:18,724 are not on that recommended list. 524 00:35:24,295 --> 00:35:26,645 It's not a good thing. 525 00:35:26,776 --> 00:35:29,300 And by calling that spirit into himself, 526 00:35:29,431 --> 00:35:32,347 he availed himself to possession. 527 00:35:32,477 --> 00:35:35,350 Because you're... You're giving it... 528 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:37,613 You're giving it entry. 529 00:35:37,743 --> 00:35:39,658 What George was doing in that house 530 00:35:39,789 --> 00:35:42,879 would have caused a haunting in any home. 531 00:36:02,638 --> 00:36:04,379 We were at home in Babylon, 532 00:36:04,509 --> 00:36:06,163 and there's a knock on the door, 533 00:36:06,294 --> 00:36:09,253 and it's George and Kathy. 534 00:36:09,384 --> 00:36:11,777 They were frightened. 535 00:36:11,908 --> 00:36:13,518 I had never seen them like that before. 536 00:36:13,649 --> 00:36:15,303 They were truly frightened 537 00:36:15,433 --> 00:36:16,869 of what was happening in the house. 538 00:36:18,523 --> 00:36:20,743 The temperature extremes in the house, 539 00:36:20,873 --> 00:36:22,919 the way George explained it was like 540 00:36:23,049 --> 00:36:24,790 a runaway locomotive. 541 00:36:24,921 --> 00:36:26,923 It got hot or it got cold. 542 00:36:31,319 --> 00:36:33,408 He was up every night at three o'clock 543 00:36:33,538 --> 00:36:34,800 wandering the house, 544 00:36:34,931 --> 00:36:38,674 visiting the boathouse for no apparent reason. 545 00:36:38,804 --> 00:36:40,415 I had never seen them like that before. 546 00:36:40,545 --> 00:36:42,243 They were truly frightened 547 00:36:42,373 --> 00:36:43,853 of what was happening in the house. 548 00:36:47,422 --> 00:36:50,773 George had a change in his demeanor 549 00:36:50,903 --> 00:36:53,602 where he no longer went into work, 550 00:36:53,732 --> 00:36:57,475 became obsessed with just sitting around the fire 551 00:36:57,606 --> 00:37:00,304 and obsessed with his boats and his boathouse. 552 00:37:03,742 --> 00:37:06,441 And George's temperament was, like, 553 00:37:06,571 --> 00:37:09,966 quick to get pissed off and express that. 554 00:37:10,096 --> 00:37:12,708 That became scary. 555 00:37:14,187 --> 00:37:17,452 Confusion, anger, misplaced 556 00:37:17,582 --> 00:37:20,716 because I would direct it at Kathy for no reason. 557 00:37:26,722 --> 00:37:29,725 Noises would go off downstairs every night, 558 00:37:29,855 --> 00:37:31,466 slamming doors. 559 00:37:31,596 --> 00:37:33,095 The kids would come down from the third floor 560 00:37:33,119 --> 00:37:35,600 to see what was going on. 561 00:37:37,733 --> 00:37:39,778 When we called Father Ray the next day, 562 00:37:39,909 --> 00:37:41,650 he asked what we were still doing there. 563 00:37:41,780 --> 00:37:43,889 He was surprised that we were still even in the house. 564 00:37:43,913 --> 00:37:46,742 And it hadn't even occurred to us to... even at that point 565 00:37:46,872 --> 00:37:49,658 to just up and abandon everything. 566 00:37:49,788 --> 00:37:54,576 Father Ray wasn't just your average parish priest. 567 00:37:54,706 --> 00:37:57,840 He was trained in the Vatican. 568 00:37:57,970 --> 00:37:59,624 The only priest I knew was a priest 569 00:37:59,755 --> 00:38:01,974 by the name of Father Ralph Pecoraro. 570 00:38:02,105 --> 00:38:04,977 I had met him when my previous marriage, 571 00:38:05,108 --> 00:38:08,981 which had lasted about six months, had been annulled. 572 00:38:09,112 --> 00:38:12,463 He went room to room, said prayers in each room. 573 00:38:12,594 --> 00:38:15,553 I was blessing the sewing room. 574 00:38:15,684 --> 00:38:17,816 It was cold. It was really cold in there. 575 00:38:17,947 --> 00:38:20,950 And I thought, "Gee, that's... This is peculiar." 576 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:24,649 I also... sprinkling holy water. 577 00:38:24,780 --> 00:38:26,825 Get out. 578 00:38:26,956 --> 00:38:30,960 And I heard a rather deep voice behind me 579 00:38:31,090 --> 00:38:34,485 say, "Get out." 580 00:38:34,616 --> 00:38:35,878 He stopped and just asked us 581 00:38:36,008 --> 00:38:38,576 what we were going to use one bedroom for. 582 00:38:38,707 --> 00:38:40,056 There was something about the room 583 00:38:40,186 --> 00:38:43,146 that made him uncomfortable and he wanted to leave. 584 00:38:43,276 --> 00:38:44,756 That was evidently the bedroom 585 00:38:44,887 --> 00:38:47,063 where the two boys had been murdered. 586 00:38:57,203 --> 00:39:01,556 We had asked him to come back and bless the house again, 587 00:39:01,686 --> 00:39:03,732 which he refused to do. 588 00:39:05,516 --> 00:39:08,476 And we were really shattered by that. 589 00:39:08,606 --> 00:39:11,000 We didn't know why he wouldn't come back. 590 00:39:11,130 --> 00:39:12,697 We couldn't understand that. 591 00:39:18,181 --> 00:39:19,835 Pretty soon, New Year's came. 592 00:39:19,965 --> 00:39:23,708 I remember coming back from school one day. 593 00:39:23,839 --> 00:39:26,581 I was laying on my bed, 594 00:39:26,711 --> 00:39:29,671 looking out into the hallway. 595 00:39:31,324 --> 00:39:34,980 Right in front of the door, there was this figure. 596 00:39:37,679 --> 00:39:39,420 It looked like a shadow, 597 00:39:39,550 --> 00:39:41,857 doesn't have legs that touch the ground. 598 00:39:47,079 --> 00:39:48,690 And as I'm looking at this thing, 599 00:39:48,820 --> 00:39:50,996 it's coming towards me. 600 00:39:58,134 --> 00:39:59,918 And I was petrified. 601 00:40:02,138 --> 00:40:03,792 Get out! 602 00:40:03,922 --> 00:40:06,490 Our Father which art in heaven, 603 00:40:06,621 --> 00:40:08,405 hallowed be thy name. 604 00:40:10,146 --> 00:40:12,888 The last week we were there was the worst. 605 00:40:13,018 --> 00:40:14,542 Thy will be done. 606 00:40:14,672 --> 00:40:16,761 At a suggestion of a friend, we went around 607 00:40:16,892 --> 00:40:20,461 and we blessed the rooms in the house. 608 00:40:20,591 --> 00:40:23,942 There was quite a deal of screaming. 609 00:40:24,073 --> 00:40:28,120 We heard a chorus of voices scream out, 610 00:40:28,251 --> 00:40:30,601 "Will you please stop?" 611 00:40:33,299 --> 00:40:34,736 I remember them having us go around 612 00:40:34,866 --> 00:40:37,608 and open all the windows. 613 00:40:37,739 --> 00:40:39,194 What they were trying to do was, like, 614 00:40:39,218 --> 00:40:42,091 basically their own exorcism of the house. 615 00:40:44,093 --> 00:40:47,575 And here they were walking around saying these prayers. 616 00:40:49,925 --> 00:40:52,231 It was afterwards that they had us closing the windows, 617 00:40:52,362 --> 00:40:55,626 and that was when the incident with Danny's hand happened. 618 00:40:58,673 --> 00:41:01,676 My mom trying to get the window off his hand 619 00:41:01,806 --> 00:41:03,166 took more time than it should have. 620 00:41:04,809 --> 00:41:06,811 Let me push it up. 621 00:41:06,942 --> 00:41:08,770 And Danny was, like, screaming in pain. 622 00:41:20,651 --> 00:41:23,698 I was half dressed. 623 00:41:23,828 --> 00:41:26,091 Then I looked down at Kathy, and... 624 00:41:29,791 --> 00:41:31,706 the lines started to form in her face. 625 00:41:31,836 --> 00:41:34,143 And she saw herself and started screaming. 626 00:41:34,273 --> 00:41:37,233 What did you look like? 627 00:41:37,363 --> 00:41:38,843 Like an old crag. 628 00:41:38,974 --> 00:41:41,846 You tell me. 629 00:41:41,977 --> 00:41:43,215 What did you... what was your... 630 00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:44,869 Tell me what you saw and what you thought. 631 00:41:44,893 --> 00:41:45,957 What did you think when you look in the mirror 632 00:41:45,981 --> 00:41:47,341 and you see yourself age like that? 633 00:41:47,373 --> 00:41:49,854 Well, it was really repulsive. 634 00:41:49,985 --> 00:41:53,641 My mouth was very tight, severe lines, 635 00:41:53,771 --> 00:41:57,035 lines throughout the cheeks, crow's feet, 636 00:41:57,166 --> 00:42:00,212 and the change in the hair color. 637 00:42:00,343 --> 00:42:01,518 Did you feel... 638 00:42:01,649 --> 00:42:04,042 Physically, I felt without energy. 639 00:42:04,173 --> 00:42:05,609 Huh. 640 00:42:05,740 --> 00:42:07,698 Uh, looking in the mirror, 641 00:42:07,829 --> 00:42:11,006 it was like looking through a Halloween mask, 642 00:42:11,136 --> 00:42:13,922 knowing how you are, what you look like. 643 00:42:14,052 --> 00:42:17,621 And yet what you see isn't what you know. 644 00:42:34,769 --> 00:42:35,813 Something's going on 645 00:42:35,944 --> 00:42:37,008 that you don't really understand. 646 00:42:37,032 --> 00:42:38,686 And we really did not want 647 00:42:38,816 --> 00:42:41,602 to just give up on living there. 648 00:42:43,038 --> 00:42:46,041 We wanted to get the house fixed. 649 00:42:48,217 --> 00:42:52,221 George wanted to do some research on the house. 650 00:42:52,351 --> 00:42:56,791 He got involved in looking up what the land was 651 00:42:56,921 --> 00:42:58,967 and all the history of the house 652 00:42:59,097 --> 00:43:03,232 to see if there was any sort of connection in the past 653 00:43:03,362 --> 00:43:07,976 to things that had happened on the property, to the house. 654 00:43:24,775 --> 00:43:25,950 George and Kathy felt that 655 00:43:26,081 --> 00:43:28,910 something was let loose in the house. 656 00:43:32,522 --> 00:43:36,700 I do believe in the paranormal, 657 00:43:36,831 --> 00:43:38,920 that people can have experiences. 658 00:43:39,050 --> 00:43:41,313 So maybe there were children ghosts in the house. 659 00:43:41,444 --> 00:43:44,273 And maybe that's what Missy was talking to. 660 00:43:47,102 --> 00:43:48,320 We learned after we spoke 661 00:43:48,451 --> 00:43:49,757 with the local police there 662 00:43:49,887 --> 00:43:51,715 that we had the same odor in the house 663 00:43:51,846 --> 00:43:53,064 that would come and go 664 00:43:53,195 --> 00:43:55,284 that was there when they arrived on the scene. 665 00:43:59,114 --> 00:44:00,942 We could tell the police about the murders 666 00:44:01,072 --> 00:44:03,684 things that were never released to the public. 667 00:44:06,338 --> 00:44:09,211 We knew who was shot, 668 00:44:09,341 --> 00:44:11,430 where they were shot, 669 00:44:11,561 --> 00:44:12,997 what position they were in. 670 00:44:13,128 --> 00:44:14,433 The first week in the house, 671 00:44:14,564 --> 00:44:17,393 the children and Kathy all slept on their stomachs. 672 00:44:17,523 --> 00:44:21,005 And we knew from that that the murders had... 673 00:44:21,136 --> 00:44:23,138 Everyone in the family had been shot, 674 00:44:23,268 --> 00:44:25,270 they were facedown on their stomachs. 675 00:44:28,186 --> 00:44:31,407 I found myself waking up at 3:15 every morning 676 00:44:31,537 --> 00:44:33,801 and for no reason at all. 677 00:44:33,931 --> 00:44:35,803 When we found out later from the police 678 00:44:35,933 --> 00:44:37,345 something that had never been released was 679 00:44:37,369 --> 00:44:41,460 that was when the murders took place. 680 00:44:41,591 --> 00:44:45,203 George and Kathy told me the story about the DeFeos. 681 00:44:45,334 --> 00:44:48,903 They were a family from Brooklyn. 682 00:44:49,033 --> 00:44:52,428 And what happened, supposedly, 683 00:44:52,558 --> 00:44:55,213 Ronald DeFeo, the son, 684 00:44:55,344 --> 00:44:57,738 murdered his entire family in the house. 685 00:45:09,053 --> 00:45:10,272 Sometimes, he'd remind me 686 00:45:10,402 --> 00:45:13,318 of Charles Manson. 687 00:45:13,449 --> 00:45:15,364 Maybe they thought he'd get away with it, 688 00:45:15,494 --> 00:45:20,108 that it wasn't him, it was a ghost that did it. 689 00:45:20,238 --> 00:45:24,068 I said, if anyone could haunt a house, it's him. 690 00:45:35,471 --> 00:45:36,777 This is really the first time 691 00:45:36,907 --> 00:45:39,040 I'm even talking about it. 692 00:45:40,476 --> 00:45:42,043 I don't want to be associated with it, 693 00:45:42,173 --> 00:45:43,566 to be honest with you. 694 00:45:43,696 --> 00:45:46,525 But something tells me I should... 695 00:45:46,656 --> 00:45:48,440 I have a couple things to say. 696 00:45:48,571 --> 00:45:51,226 And I'd like to let people know 697 00:45:51,356 --> 00:45:54,055 some things that they don't know. 698 00:45:57,493 --> 00:46:01,279 November 13, 1974. 699 00:46:01,410 --> 00:46:03,412 It was the last time I saw him. 700 00:46:06,632 --> 00:46:09,331 George told me that he... 701 00:46:09,461 --> 00:46:12,377 He had learned that the house was built 702 00:46:12,508 --> 00:46:15,816 on an Indian burial ground. 703 00:46:15,946 --> 00:46:19,341 He went to the society in Amityville, 704 00:46:19,471 --> 00:46:22,953 and they had old maps. 705 00:46:25,434 --> 00:46:29,133 And that it was possible spirits in the land 706 00:46:29,264 --> 00:46:31,092 had something to do with the evil 707 00:46:31,222 --> 00:46:33,268 that was in the house. 708 00:46:42,016 --> 00:46:42,886 What happened the night 709 00:46:43,017 --> 00:46:44,177 that made you flee the house? 710 00:46:44,279 --> 00:46:46,934 The boys' bedroom was above ours, 711 00:46:47,064 --> 00:46:50,328 and they each had their own bed. 712 00:46:50,459 --> 00:46:54,289 And we could hear the beds slamming down onto the floor. 713 00:46:56,378 --> 00:46:59,511 Something tremendous would pick it up and slam it down. 714 00:46:59,642 --> 00:47:02,123 Their bedroom door would open and close. 715 00:47:02,253 --> 00:47:04,081 Their closet doors would open and close. 716 00:47:04,212 --> 00:47:07,215 And the boys were in fear watching this. 717 00:47:08,738 --> 00:47:10,131 Go! Run! 718 00:47:48,082 --> 00:47:50,301 โ™ช Try 719 00:47:50,432 --> 00:47:55,045 โ™ช To understand what I say 720 00:47:55,176 --> 00:47:58,657 โ™ช We are not leaving today 721 00:47:58,788 --> 00:48:00,442 โ™ช It's true 722 00:48:00,572 --> 00:48:06,491 โ™ช Oh, we're just Passing through โ™ช 723 00:48:21,202 --> 00:48:27,686 โ™ช You may hide away For a while โ™ช 724 00:48:27,817 --> 00:48:31,690 โ™ช When you come back There's a smile โ™ช 725 00:48:31,821 --> 00:48:35,912 โ™ช On the face of your clock 726 00:48:36,043 --> 00:48:41,004 โ™ช As the time passes by 51845

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