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Would you like to inspect the original subtitles? These are the user uploaded subtitles that are being translated: 1 00:00:02,785 --> 00:00:05,962 NARRATOR: Previously on D.B. Cooper: Case Closed?... 2 00:00:06,006 --> 00:00:08,225 When he got on a plane in Portland, Oregon, last night, 3 00:00:08,269 --> 00:00:09,922 he was just another passenger 4 00:00:09,966 --> 00:00:11,881 who gave his name as D.A. Cooper. 5 00:00:11,924 --> 00:00:14,536 NARRATOR: It is one of the most audacious crimes 6 00:00:14,579 --> 00:00:16,581 in American history. 7 00:00:16,625 --> 00:00:18,366 CRONKITE: The description on one wire service: 8 00:00:18,409 --> 00:00:20,063 master criminal. 9 00:00:20,107 --> 00:00:23,066 NARRATOR: Thanksgiving Eve, 1971. 10 00:00:23,110 --> 00:00:26,504 A man in a suit and tie and armed with a bomb 11 00:00:26,548 --> 00:00:28,463 skyjacks a 727, 12 00:00:28,506 --> 00:00:31,074 gets $200,000 in ransom, 13 00:00:31,118 --> 00:00:34,034 and parachutes into the night somewhere between Seattle 14 00:00:34,077 --> 00:00:36,036 -and Reno. -JENSEN: This guy was on our radar. 15 00:00:36,079 --> 00:00:38,908 He was part of our lives for five hours. 16 00:00:38,951 --> 00:00:41,650 And we're still talking about him today. 17 00:00:41,693 --> 00:00:43,608 NARRATOR: For over four decades, 18 00:00:43,652 --> 00:00:45,871 there have been thousands of leads and suspects, 19 00:00:45,915 --> 00:00:47,090 but zero arrests. 20 00:00:47,134 --> 00:00:48,831 KAYE: In 40 years, 21 00:00:48,874 --> 00:00:50,485 they've never come up with a body. 22 00:00:50,528 --> 00:00:52,182 Well, he either got away 23 00:00:52,226 --> 00:00:54,271 or else he sure made a big hole in the ground up there. 24 00:00:54,315 --> 00:00:57,492 We, as skydivers, knew that was a very survivable jump. 25 00:00:57,535 --> 00:01:01,365 NARRATOR: Now, two journalists, Tom Colbert and Jim Forbes, 26 00:01:01,409 --> 00:01:02,714 are revealing the details of a theory 27 00:01:02,758 --> 00:01:05,239 Colbert has spent thousands of dollars 28 00:01:05,282 --> 00:01:07,937 of his own money building. 29 00:01:07,980 --> 00:01:10,896 COLBERT: We have now 36 members on a cold case team. 30 00:01:10,940 --> 00:01:13,769 It's like running your own police department. 31 00:01:13,812 --> 00:01:15,640 NARRATOR: Colbert and Forbes believe they found D.B. Cooper, 32 00:01:15,684 --> 00:01:18,513 -Perfect. -and he's alive. 33 00:01:18,556 --> 00:01:21,429 Tom believes to his core that he's got D.B. Cooper. 34 00:01:21,472 --> 00:01:23,300 COLBERT: I'm not wrong. This is him. 35 00:01:23,344 --> 00:01:26,695 I actually took it to the FBI already, 36 00:01:26,738 --> 00:01:30,046 in 2012, when we had 33 pieces of evidence. 37 00:01:30,090 --> 00:01:31,917 But they said they couldn't get involved. 38 00:01:31,961 --> 00:01:33,745 They had other priorities. 39 00:01:33,789 --> 00:01:36,052 NARRATOR: Now the men say they have 93 pieces 40 00:01:36,096 --> 00:01:38,185 of circumstantial evidence, and that they want 41 00:01:38,228 --> 00:01:40,274 to go back to the FBI. 42 00:01:40,317 --> 00:01:41,971 Okay, convince us. 43 00:01:42,014 --> 00:01:43,668 NARRATOR: So History has brought in 44 00:01:43,712 --> 00:01:46,584 former FBI Assistant Director Tom Fuentes 45 00:01:46,628 --> 00:01:48,760 and crime journalist Billy Jensen 46 00:01:48,804 --> 00:01:51,763 to pressure test their Colbert-Forbes theory. 47 00:01:51,807 --> 00:01:54,505 FUENTES: If you form a theory in an investigation too early, 48 00:01:54,549 --> 00:01:56,116 then you subconsciously 49 00:01:56,159 --> 00:01:57,900 are trying to prove yourself correct. 50 00:01:57,943 --> 00:02:00,816 NARRATOR: On day one of their presentation, 51 00:02:00,859 --> 00:02:03,079 Colbert and Forbes revealed the name of the man 52 00:02:03,123 --> 00:02:05,429 at the center of their theory. 53 00:02:05,473 --> 00:02:07,257 Robert Wesley Rackstraw. 54 00:02:07,301 --> 00:02:09,912 NEWSMAN: Your background suggests that you 55 00:02:09,955 --> 00:02:12,044 could've been D.B. Cooper. 56 00:02:12,088 --> 00:02:15,657 Could've been. Could've been. 57 00:02:15,700 --> 00:02:17,441 NARRATOR: A one-time suspect 58 00:02:17,485 --> 00:02:19,965 in the FBI's investigation of the Cooper case, 59 00:02:20,009 --> 00:02:22,272 Rackstraw had extensive military experience 60 00:02:22,316 --> 00:02:23,969 during the Vietnam War. 61 00:02:24,013 --> 00:02:26,276 RAY: He, uh, went to infantry jump school, 62 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:28,539 demolition school, Special Forces Ops, 63 00:02:28,583 --> 00:02:30,759 survival skills, Psy Ops. 64 00:02:30,802 --> 00:02:31,847 REPORTER: Some people say it adds up. 65 00:02:31,890 --> 00:02:33,805 Oh, certainly. 66 00:02:33,849 --> 00:02:36,286 Rackstraw was forced to resign his commission 67 00:02:36,330 --> 00:02:38,593 because he had falsified his background. 68 00:02:38,636 --> 00:02:40,421 To us, that was the motive. 69 00:02:40,464 --> 00:02:43,685 In addition to his military records, Don pulled 70 00:02:43,728 --> 00:02:47,036 a photo taken 14 months before the hijacking. 71 00:02:47,079 --> 00:02:50,387 We do not know if these photos were pulled by the FBI 72 00:02:50,431 --> 00:02:52,607 when he was investigated in the '70s. 73 00:02:52,650 --> 00:02:55,653 JENSEN: They have a specific suspect in mind, 74 00:02:55,697 --> 00:02:57,786 and this could be just one giant rabbit hole 75 00:02:57,829 --> 00:02:59,701 that these two gentlemen have gone down. 76 00:02:59,744 --> 00:03:02,965 NARRATOR: Tonight, the rest of the Colbert-Forbes theory 77 00:03:03,008 --> 00:03:05,141 -is revealed... -FORBES: Here's an element. 78 00:03:05,185 --> 00:03:08,231 It is so far-fetched, it-it's crazy, 79 00:03:08,275 --> 00:03:10,364 and it's the biggest leap of faith, 80 00:03:10,407 --> 00:03:14,498 but if we can bring this home, then we've got a hell of a case. 81 00:03:14,542 --> 00:03:16,674 NARRATOR: ...and interrogated. 82 00:03:16,718 --> 00:03:18,633 Are one of those 93 pieces of evidence 83 00:03:18,676 --> 00:03:21,070 money or the parachute? 84 00:03:21,113 --> 00:03:24,160 NARRATOR: Plus, they finally face the man they believe 85 00:03:24,204 --> 00:03:25,466 is D.B. Cooper. 86 00:03:25,509 --> 00:03:26,989 Bob, it's Jim Forbes. 87 00:03:27,032 --> 00:03:29,296 I've got some easy questions. 88 00:03:29,339 --> 00:03:30,993 NARRATOR: Then, a key witness 89 00:03:31,036 --> 00:03:33,822 who hasn't spoken in 45 years 90 00:03:33,865 --> 00:03:36,390 agrees to one final interview. 91 00:03:36,433 --> 00:03:38,261 JENSEN: Have you ever seen this guy's picture? 92 00:03:38,305 --> 00:03:39,697 Or does he look like this could've been 93 00:03:39,741 --> 00:03:42,613 the guy that you were sitting next to? 94 00:03:42,657 --> 00:03:45,442 NARRATOR: And the FBI sits down to talk. 95 00:03:45,486 --> 00:03:46,791 We're about to make a transition-- 96 00:03:46,835 --> 00:03:48,445 an official transition-- in the case. 97 00:03:48,489 --> 00:03:50,491 NARRATOR: And the D.B. Cooper case, 98 00:03:50,534 --> 00:03:53,363 the only unsolved skyjacking in American history, 99 00:03:53,407 --> 00:03:55,322 takes a surprising turn. 100 00:04:06,550 --> 00:04:08,683 So, during the course of our investigation, we sit down 101 00:04:08,726 --> 00:04:12,643 with the half-sister of Robert Rackstraw, Linda LoDuca. 102 00:04:12,687 --> 00:04:15,255 We didn't know the extent at the time-- 103 00:04:15,298 --> 00:04:17,866 we did know she was ill, but we didn't know how gravely, 104 00:04:17,909 --> 00:04:21,130 and, in fact, she passed away only weeks later. 105 00:04:21,173 --> 00:04:23,263 It's the only interview she ever gave. 106 00:04:23,306 --> 00:04:26,266 She filled in the timeframe of when he got in trouble, 107 00:04:26,309 --> 00:04:27,658 and that was in the late '70s, 108 00:04:27,702 --> 00:04:29,356 when the FBI first approached her. 109 00:04:29,399 --> 00:04:31,706 LODUCA: When the FBI asked me, did I know 110 00:04:31,749 --> 00:04:34,448 where Bob was Thanksgiving Day, 1971? 111 00:04:34,491 --> 00:04:36,493 [chuckles] I said, 112 00:04:36,537 --> 00:04:39,017 "Well, you know, I really don't." 113 00:04:39,061 --> 00:04:40,889 And, you know, "Why?" And he told me, 114 00:04:40,932 --> 00:04:43,457 you know, did I know about D.B. Cooper? 115 00:04:43,500 --> 00:04:45,067 So that was the first reference 116 00:04:45,110 --> 00:04:47,765 to Bob and D.B. Cooper that I had heard. 117 00:04:47,809 --> 00:04:49,767 Does the FBI come back and again question you 118 00:04:49,811 --> 00:04:51,334 about D.B. Cooper? 119 00:04:51,378 --> 00:04:52,596 Um, no, they don't. 120 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:54,685 Um, not, no. 121 00:04:54,729 --> 00:04:55,860 I-I don't think I ever heard from them 122 00:04:55,904 --> 00:04:57,645 about D.B. Cooper again. 123 00:04:57,688 --> 00:05:00,125 -FORBES: Ever again? Just that one contact? -Yeah. 124 00:05:00,169 --> 00:05:02,911 And did you discuss that with family or friends? 125 00:05:02,954 --> 00:05:05,087 -Oh, yeah. -And what did they think? 126 00:05:05,130 --> 00:05:07,045 They thought it funny. I mean, D.B. Cooper was almost 127 00:05:07,089 --> 00:05:08,612 a, uh, I won't say idol, 128 00:05:08,656 --> 00:05:10,179 but people are, "Hey, he got away with it." 129 00:05:10,222 --> 00:05:11,876 -He's a folk hero. -Yeah, a folk hero, exactly. 130 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:14,009 "Oh, you think your brother might be him?" 131 00:05:14,052 --> 00:05:15,619 You know, that's when, that's when conversations started, 132 00:05:15,663 --> 00:05:17,099 could Bob be it? 133 00:05:17,142 --> 00:05:18,753 Did anybody think he could be it? 134 00:05:18,796 --> 00:05:22,017 Um... 135 00:05:22,060 --> 00:05:24,976 A lot of my friends didn't know him that well. 136 00:05:25,020 --> 00:05:27,109 They met him, but they didn't know him real well. 137 00:05:27,152 --> 00:05:31,113 But, you know, when I described, you know, his Army background 138 00:05:31,156 --> 00:05:32,941 and his capabilities, hey, yeah. 139 00:05:32,984 --> 00:05:35,465 That's exactly what you need. 140 00:05:35,509 --> 00:05:39,469 She also filled us in on their skydiving uncle, 141 00:05:39,513 --> 00:05:42,298 Ed Cooper, who very well may have been 142 00:05:42,342 --> 00:05:45,214 the inspiration for Dan Cooper. 143 00:05:45,257 --> 00:05:46,911 FORBES: Who is Ed Cooper? 144 00:05:46,955 --> 00:05:48,391 He's our uncle. 145 00:05:48,435 --> 00:05:50,785 He's married to my mom's sister. 146 00:05:50,828 --> 00:05:53,614 He was marr... our uncle by marriage. 147 00:05:53,657 --> 00:05:57,008 FORBES: Did you know anything about him being a parachutist? 148 00:05:57,052 --> 00:05:59,402 LODUCA: Yeah, that's all he talked about. He loved it. 149 00:05:59,446 --> 00:06:00,882 -That's all who talked about? -Uncle Ed. 150 00:06:00,925 --> 00:06:02,405 With who? 151 00:06:02,449 --> 00:06:04,799 The family. Us. As we were sitting there. 152 00:06:04,842 --> 00:06:06,757 -FORBES: Was Bob there? -Oh, yeah. 153 00:06:06,801 --> 00:06:08,933 Uncle Ed, he was a really nice guy. 154 00:06:08,977 --> 00:06:10,500 JENSEN: Okay. 155 00:06:10,544 --> 00:06:12,154 So that's where the last name came from. 156 00:06:12,197 --> 00:06:13,503 Where did the "Dan" come from? 157 00:06:13,547 --> 00:06:14,678 No idea. 158 00:06:14,722 --> 00:06:16,854 COLBERT: No one knows. 159 00:06:16,898 --> 00:06:18,639 She also, at the time, thought is was a lark. 160 00:06:18,682 --> 00:06:20,423 That there was no way in the world 161 00:06:20,467 --> 00:06:23,034 that he could've possibly been D.B. Cooper. 162 00:06:23,078 --> 00:06:24,601 And when she sat down, 163 00:06:24,645 --> 00:06:27,299 uh, her opinion changed dramatically 164 00:06:27,343 --> 00:06:29,693 as to whether he could possibly be D.B. Cooper. 165 00:06:29,737 --> 00:06:31,652 Even though he didn't let on initially 166 00:06:31,695 --> 00:06:34,524 as to why he wasn't in the Army, you did learn he was angry. 167 00:06:34,568 --> 00:06:37,658 Um, I learned from the FBI agent, actually. 168 00:06:37,701 --> 00:06:40,138 He, uh, the one that came to me and told me, 169 00:06:40,182 --> 00:06:42,445 was asking me about, you know, where Bob was. 170 00:06:42,489 --> 00:06:44,708 And he told me he read, um, 171 00:06:44,752 --> 00:06:47,102 a letter Bob had sent to the Army 172 00:06:47,145 --> 00:06:49,452 after he had been discharged, and it was an angry letter. 173 00:06:49,496 --> 00:06:51,672 He was angry in that letter. 174 00:06:51,715 --> 00:06:53,848 Before, he was gung ho Army. 175 00:06:53,891 --> 00:06:55,937 Now he wasn't so gung ho Army anymore. 176 00:06:55,980 --> 00:06:58,243 Military, government. 177 00:06:58,287 --> 00:07:00,898 With that in mind, does it make sense to you 178 00:07:00,942 --> 00:07:03,423 that a bitter Bob Rackstraw, booted from the Army, 179 00:07:03,466 --> 00:07:07,383 five months later, could've hijacked that plane 180 00:07:07,427 --> 00:07:09,429 -and posed as D.B. Cooper? -That would be... 181 00:07:09,472 --> 00:07:11,518 That would be the reason I would've thought he did it. 182 00:07:11,561 --> 00:07:13,302 JENSEN: It's definitely something that fits, 183 00:07:13,345 --> 00:07:16,000 that this guy, with all the training that he was doing, 184 00:07:16,044 --> 00:07:18,699 it seemed like he wanted to be a career soldier, 185 00:07:18,742 --> 00:07:22,485 and they took it away from him like that. 186 00:07:29,710 --> 00:07:32,147 FORBES: In a quick reset, as you recall, 187 00:07:32,190 --> 00:07:36,107 uh, Rackstraw is booted from the Army, June 21, 1971. 188 00:07:36,151 --> 00:07:38,153 We've already established he clearly had the means. 189 00:07:38,196 --> 00:07:41,069 We think he had the motive by being thrown into the street. 190 00:07:41,112 --> 00:07:42,549 So, the next part of our story 191 00:07:42,592 --> 00:07:44,376 is gonna take us to Astoria, Oregon. 192 00:07:44,420 --> 00:07:46,422 Astoria is only 56 miles 193 00:07:46,466 --> 00:07:49,294 from what is believed to be the D.B. Cooper drop zone. 194 00:07:49,338 --> 00:07:52,820 We believe that Robert Rackstraw spent months after his discharge 195 00:07:52,863 --> 00:07:54,386 in the Oregon area. 196 00:07:54,430 --> 00:07:56,432 We believe he was flying a small plane, 197 00:07:56,476 --> 00:07:59,043 scouting the drop zone, and he assumed 198 00:07:59,087 --> 00:08:00,523 a false identity. 199 00:08:00,567 --> 00:08:02,394 So here's an element, 200 00:08:02,438 --> 00:08:05,876 it is so far-fetched, it's crazy. 201 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:08,966 And it's the biggest leap of faith, but if we can 202 00:08:09,010 --> 00:08:12,143 bring this home, then we got a hell of a case. 203 00:08:12,187 --> 00:08:15,669 So we discovered that in the summer of 1971, 204 00:08:15,712 --> 00:08:18,410 this mysterious man shows up in Astoria. 205 00:08:18,454 --> 00:08:21,718 Supposed Swiss baron by the name of Norman De Winter. 206 00:08:21,762 --> 00:08:24,721 This is less than a month after Bob Rackstraw is booted 207 00:08:24,765 --> 00:08:26,070 from the Army. 208 00:08:26,114 --> 00:08:28,072 COLBERT: Several of the people 209 00:08:28,116 --> 00:08:29,552 that knew Norman De Winter were told 210 00:08:29,596 --> 00:08:30,945 that he had a small plane. 211 00:08:30,988 --> 00:08:32,468 Now, Pete Roscoe, who grew up in town, 212 00:08:32,512 --> 00:08:33,991 had lived there his whole life, 213 00:08:34,035 --> 00:08:36,341 he was 24 on the night of the hijacking. 214 00:08:36,385 --> 00:08:38,735 He always felt this character could be D.B. Cooper. 215 00:08:38,779 --> 00:08:41,172 ROSCOE: You know, I remember 216 00:08:41,216 --> 00:08:44,393 around Thanksgiving of 1971, 217 00:08:44,436 --> 00:08:46,526 after D.B. Cooper had... 218 00:08:46,569 --> 00:08:48,702 done his thing aboard the plane, 219 00:08:48,745 --> 00:08:51,574 I was sitting in a tavern here in Astoria. 220 00:08:51,618 --> 00:08:54,490 And I see the sketch on TV, and I said, 221 00:08:54,534 --> 00:08:56,405 "That's that guy that was here this summer. 222 00:08:56,448 --> 00:08:58,320 That was Norman De Winter." 223 00:08:58,363 --> 00:09:02,150 Why nobody else thought this guy was D.B. Cooper, I have no idea. 224 00:09:02,193 --> 00:09:04,500 It seemed obvious to me. 225 00:09:04,544 --> 00:09:06,154 But I didn't pursue it. 226 00:09:06,197 --> 00:09:08,460 I dismissed it in my mind as, 227 00:09:08,504 --> 00:09:09,766 "You know the FBI's gonna catch him. 228 00:09:09,810 --> 00:09:11,115 They don't need my help." 229 00:09:11,159 --> 00:09:13,422 That never happened, 230 00:09:13,465 --> 00:09:16,599 but I think I know where D.B. Cooper was 231 00:09:16,643 --> 00:09:19,080 before he hijacked the plane, 232 00:09:19,123 --> 00:09:22,170 and that's always been a part of this story 233 00:09:22,213 --> 00:09:25,129 that has sort of been ignored by the press. 234 00:09:25,173 --> 00:09:27,131 FORBES: So, when we heard this theory, 235 00:09:27,175 --> 00:09:29,481 Tom and I said, "We got to go up there and investigate." 236 00:09:29,525 --> 00:09:31,962 And Pete Roscoe introduced us to a few people 237 00:09:32,006 --> 00:09:35,618 who said they absolutely remember Norman De Winter. 238 00:09:35,662 --> 00:09:38,795 ROSCOE: There was a guy in Astoria 239 00:09:38,839 --> 00:09:41,363 -named Norman De Winter. -That's right. That's right. 240 00:09:41,406 --> 00:09:43,974 I was the priest, and he came in and introduced himself to me, 241 00:09:44,018 --> 00:09:45,759 and he said, "I'm from Switzerland. 242 00:09:45,802 --> 00:09:49,110 "And I want to come to Astoria, uh, a rural community, 243 00:09:49,153 --> 00:09:50,764 "and I'd like to live here for a while 244 00:09:50,807 --> 00:09:52,287 and get to know the people." 245 00:09:52,330 --> 00:09:54,376 My recollection is 246 00:09:54,419 --> 00:09:56,552 that, uh, he asked to stay in my apartment. 247 00:09:56,596 --> 00:09:58,075 'Cause he was looking for a place to live. 248 00:09:58,119 --> 00:09:59,642 I think he stayed at several people's places. 249 00:09:59,686 --> 00:10:03,124 -MAN: Yeah, yeah. -It was strange. 250 00:10:03,167 --> 00:10:05,039 SODERBERG: Mostly what I recall is that 251 00:10:05,082 --> 00:10:08,346 we had quite a bit of conversation about flying. 252 00:10:08,390 --> 00:10:12,220 And Norman said he had a private plane. 253 00:10:12,263 --> 00:10:14,526 A number of members of the community 254 00:10:14,570 --> 00:10:17,529 were invited to fly free of charge 255 00:10:17,573 --> 00:10:19,880 on a chartered jet to Switzerland. 256 00:10:19,923 --> 00:10:21,708 SODERBERG: When we started to talk 257 00:10:21,751 --> 00:10:24,406 about his desire to charter an aircraft 258 00:10:24,449 --> 00:10:27,061 to take all of us to Switzerland, 259 00:10:27,104 --> 00:10:30,586 then our friend, who, um, was an airline employee, 260 00:10:30,630 --> 00:10:33,676 offered to check with her company to see 261 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:37,680 if this could be arranged, and then, 262 00:10:37,724 --> 00:10:41,249 the airline's executives explained 263 00:10:41,292 --> 00:10:45,209 that there wasn't a Baron Norman De Winter 264 00:10:45,253 --> 00:10:47,559 that... and that they could find 265 00:10:47,603 --> 00:10:49,736 in Switzerland. 266 00:10:49,779 --> 00:10:52,216 ROSCOE: Isn't that about the time the guy disappeared? 267 00:10:52,260 --> 00:10:54,915 Yes. He disappeared. 268 00:10:54,958 --> 00:10:56,699 And then Norman disappeared. 269 00:10:56,743 --> 00:10:58,658 He was gone, and all of a sudden, we said, 270 00:10:58,701 --> 00:11:00,137 "We've been took." 271 00:11:00,181 --> 00:11:03,010 And nobody got the free trip to Switzerland. 272 00:11:05,490 --> 00:11:07,318 -JENSEN: Did they confront him? -COLBERT: When they got wind 273 00:11:07,362 --> 00:11:11,409 that he wasn't who he was-- Pete explained it to me-- 274 00:11:11,453 --> 00:11:13,585 the word got around town real quick. 275 00:11:13,629 --> 00:11:15,109 And he just disappeared. 276 00:11:15,152 --> 00:11:17,633 COLBERT: They never caught up with him. 277 00:11:17,677 --> 00:11:20,114 So once again, Rackstraw booted in June. 278 00:11:20,157 --> 00:11:23,247 De Winter appears in Astoria in July. 279 00:11:23,291 --> 00:11:25,554 Just about the time Norman De Winter 280 00:11:25,597 --> 00:11:28,949 disappears from Astoria, Rackstraw reappears 281 00:11:28,992 --> 00:11:31,125 at the family home in Valley Springs. 282 00:11:31,168 --> 00:11:33,040 Rackstraw tells his sister Linda 283 00:11:33,083 --> 00:11:35,912 that he wants to take his two eldest children-- 284 00:11:35,956 --> 00:11:38,741 through his first wife Pam-- down to Disneyland. 285 00:11:38,785 --> 00:11:42,092 Bob's sister Linda described the Disneyland trip. 286 00:11:42,136 --> 00:11:44,704 But he would disappear for a while, and then he'd pop up. 287 00:11:44,747 --> 00:11:46,749 You know, he'd pop-- when he-- 288 00:11:46,793 --> 00:11:48,272 One of the times he'd popped up was when he asked me, 289 00:11:48,316 --> 00:11:50,840 he said he wanted to take his kids to Disneyland. 290 00:11:50,884 --> 00:11:53,495 And that was in October of '71? 291 00:11:53,538 --> 00:11:55,018 LODUCA: I believe it was October. 292 00:11:55,062 --> 00:11:57,325 -Yeah. -When he was discharged 293 00:11:57,368 --> 00:11:59,109 in July of '71, 294 00:11:59,153 --> 00:12:01,372 did you see him right away, do you know? 295 00:12:01,416 --> 00:12:03,200 -Do you have any recollection? -I don't think I did. 296 00:12:03,244 --> 00:12:05,550 I think he disappeared for a while and then popped up again. 297 00:12:05,594 --> 00:12:08,336 FORBES: When he came home to take his children to Disneyland, 298 00:12:08,379 --> 00:12:10,207 was that the first time you recall seeing him? 299 00:12:10,251 --> 00:12:12,166 LODUCA: It is. 300 00:12:12,209 --> 00:12:14,559 Linda gave us over 50 photos, 301 00:12:14,603 --> 00:12:17,649 and two of them were pictures at Disneyland. 302 00:12:17,693 --> 00:12:20,174 That is Bob with his daughters. 303 00:12:20,217 --> 00:12:22,132 Linda went with him. 304 00:12:22,176 --> 00:12:23,917 This is the long hair look. 305 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:28,486 This is, uh, as we said, late September, early October. 306 00:12:28,530 --> 00:12:30,097 After the Disneyland trip, 307 00:12:30,140 --> 00:12:32,055 Robert Rackstraw disappears again. 308 00:12:32,099 --> 00:12:34,797 Back up north, who reappears? 309 00:12:34,841 --> 00:12:36,146 Norman De Winter. 310 00:12:36,190 --> 00:12:37,582 These kids that Norman De Winter 311 00:12:37,626 --> 00:12:39,454 had been drinking with all summer 312 00:12:39,497 --> 00:12:42,849 went off to college in the fall, unaware that the De Winter fraud 313 00:12:42,892 --> 00:12:44,764 had been discovered. 314 00:12:44,807 --> 00:12:47,027 Norman De Winter joined them in the college town 315 00:12:47,070 --> 00:12:49,116 of Corvallis, Oregon. 316 00:12:49,159 --> 00:12:52,206 COLBERT: Two college students, Gayle Downing and Fred Jaross, 317 00:12:52,249 --> 00:12:54,338 met Norman at a party. 318 00:12:54,382 --> 00:12:57,602 That evening, we'd decided to put on an impromptu 319 00:12:57,646 --> 00:13:01,563 little party, and, knowing that Thanksgiving was coming, 320 00:13:01,606 --> 00:13:03,739 grabbed the guys before they were all, sort of, 321 00:13:03,783 --> 00:13:07,438 sky bursting out of there, and, you know, probably half a dozen 322 00:13:07,482 --> 00:13:10,833 to nine or ten football players came in and the party went on, 323 00:13:10,877 --> 00:13:13,793 and everybody went home. 324 00:13:13,836 --> 00:13:15,316 Got up the next morning, 325 00:13:15,359 --> 00:13:19,233 and there is this fella sleeping on the couch. 326 00:13:19,276 --> 00:13:21,801 And no idea who he was or where he came from, 327 00:13:21,844 --> 00:13:23,933 other than that we figured that he had come in 328 00:13:23,977 --> 00:13:25,805 with the football guys. 329 00:13:25,848 --> 00:13:30,635 I just saw him as sort of an eccentric, odd kind of guy. 330 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:32,420 But back in the early '70s, I mean, 331 00:13:32,463 --> 00:13:34,291 there was a lot of odd people floating around, 332 00:13:34,335 --> 00:13:37,599 and this guy just sort of fit into the bunch. 333 00:13:37,642 --> 00:13:40,297 And so he spent, you know, the better part 334 00:13:40,341 --> 00:13:42,038 of four or five days with us. 335 00:13:42,082 --> 00:13:43,910 Probably either a Tuesday or a Wednesday morning, 336 00:13:43,953 --> 00:13:45,650 we got up and Norman was gone. 337 00:13:45,694 --> 00:13:48,088 Sort of disappeared like he appeared. 338 00:13:48,131 --> 00:13:50,090 So he didn't make it to Thanksgiving dinner? 339 00:13:50,133 --> 00:13:55,443 No, no, he was, he was gone probably the morning prior. 340 00:13:55,486 --> 00:13:57,358 Which would have been a Wednesday. 341 00:13:57,401 --> 00:14:00,143 So he's saying the Friday before Thanksgiving, 342 00:14:00,187 --> 00:14:02,537 Friday before the eve of Thanksgiving 343 00:14:02,580 --> 00:14:04,974 when the hijacking occurs, that that Friday, 344 00:14:05,018 --> 00:14:07,977 he shows up at the party and then doesn't leave, 345 00:14:08,021 --> 00:14:10,501 and stays on their couch until Monday or Tuesday 346 00:14:10,545 --> 00:14:12,242 or Wednesday the next week. 347 00:14:12,286 --> 00:14:16,507 The question, was he still with you on Thanksgiving, 348 00:14:16,551 --> 00:14:19,510 and he said no, it was, I think, the morning before. 349 00:14:19,554 --> 00:14:23,253 So that's why we have him, we believe, in Corvallis, 350 00:14:23,297 --> 00:14:28,563 Norman, until November the 23rd, the day before Thanksgiving. 351 00:14:28,606 --> 00:14:33,916 We know in the afternoon of Wednesday, November 23rd, 352 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:37,137 at Portland Airport, two hours drive away, 353 00:14:37,180 --> 00:14:39,052 Dan Cooper boards Flight 305. 354 00:14:39,095 --> 00:14:40,967 FUENTES: Okay, since that's the day of the hijacking, 355 00:14:41,010 --> 00:14:44,274 do they say what he was wearing while he was with them, 356 00:14:44,318 --> 00:14:46,320 or did he have luggage where the black suit and tie 357 00:14:46,363 --> 00:14:47,930 might have come from? 358 00:14:47,974 --> 00:14:49,497 COLBERT: We don't have anything on luggage. 359 00:14:49,540 --> 00:14:51,107 We have nothing about what he brought in. 360 00:14:51,151 --> 00:14:53,327 I mean, he literally came in for a party. 361 00:14:53,370 --> 00:14:56,069 I'd imagine if he had a suitcase they would have noticed that. 362 00:14:56,112 --> 00:14:57,897 But he didn't describe himself as a baron 363 00:14:57,940 --> 00:14:59,550 -or anything like that? -FORBES: No. 364 00:14:59,594 --> 00:15:02,510 In fact, he didn't say he was Swiss or a baron. 365 00:15:02,553 --> 00:15:04,599 But he did say his name was Norman De Winter? 366 00:15:04,642 --> 00:15:05,905 -Yes, they... -COLBERT: No, Norman. 367 00:15:05,948 --> 00:15:07,123 -Norman. -Just Norman. 368 00:15:07,167 --> 00:15:08,995 He just said Norman to everyone. 369 00:15:09,038 --> 00:15:11,345 Gayle's memory of Norman De Winter 370 00:15:11,388 --> 00:15:12,912 is particularly telling, 371 00:15:12,955 --> 00:15:16,132 and she has not forgotten him to this day. 372 00:15:16,176 --> 00:15:18,787 I was invited to the party. 373 00:15:18,830 --> 00:15:21,094 I didn't really want to go, but I came. 374 00:15:21,137 --> 00:15:23,226 JAROSS: I had broken up with Gayle. 375 00:15:23,270 --> 00:15:26,012 DOWNING: When he made the breakup, I was very upset. 376 00:15:26,055 --> 00:15:30,277 But I met Norm, and he spent almost an hour visiting with me. 377 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:34,498 He was just very charming, very polite, very good listener. 378 00:15:34,542 --> 00:15:37,501 Asked a lot of questions about me. 379 00:15:37,545 --> 00:15:40,026 Didn't talk about himself hardly at all. 380 00:15:40,069 --> 00:15:41,853 You know, people come into your life, 381 00:15:41,897 --> 00:15:43,464 and you'll never forget them. 382 00:15:43,507 --> 00:15:45,161 And it's just how you interact with them 383 00:15:45,205 --> 00:15:47,207 for one minute or one hour. 384 00:15:47,250 --> 00:15:51,080 And, for me, at 21, he really was the most charming, 385 00:15:51,124 --> 00:15:53,561 polite person that I had ever met. 386 00:15:55,780 --> 00:15:57,565 -Including you. -[both laugh] 387 00:16:00,524 --> 00:16:02,265 You're trying to say that this guy's gonna pull off 388 00:16:02,309 --> 00:16:05,355 the caper of a lifetime, and he decides to take on 389 00:16:05,399 --> 00:16:08,184 this flamboyant character of Norman De Winter, 390 00:16:08,228 --> 00:16:10,491 and is the talk of the town? 391 00:16:10,534 --> 00:16:12,362 Why would anybody do that? 392 00:16:12,406 --> 00:16:14,451 COLBERT: He was trained in undercover work 393 00:16:14,495 --> 00:16:18,194 with the Green Berets and in Vietnam. 394 00:16:18,238 --> 00:16:20,022 And being in a character was one thing 395 00:16:20,066 --> 00:16:21,632 they were trained to do. 396 00:16:21,676 --> 00:16:23,547 That's true, but when he's in Vietnam, 397 00:16:23,591 --> 00:16:25,027 he's not trying to be an undercover 398 00:16:25,071 --> 00:16:26,550 Vietnamese rice farmer. 399 00:16:26,594 --> 00:16:28,204 So what he's doing is secret, 400 00:16:28,248 --> 00:16:30,032 and it's undercover in that sense, 401 00:16:30,076 --> 00:16:32,861 but that's not the same as being an undercover operative, 402 00:16:32,904 --> 00:16:35,777 where you're embedded into a town, trying to fit in, 403 00:16:35,820 --> 00:16:39,085 trying to use that as a cover. 404 00:16:39,128 --> 00:16:40,564 FORBES: Want you to see the people 405 00:16:40,608 --> 00:16:42,827 who remember Norman De Winter, 406 00:16:42,871 --> 00:16:44,525 and you should see their reaction when we showed them 407 00:16:44,568 --> 00:16:46,570 pictures and video of Robert Rackstraw. 408 00:16:52,011 --> 00:16:53,795 JENSEN: You're trying to say that this guy's gonna pull off 409 00:16:53,838 --> 00:16:55,753 the caper of a lifetime, 410 00:16:55,797 --> 00:16:58,234 and he decides to take on this flamboyant character 411 00:16:58,278 --> 00:17:00,889 of Norman De Winter, and is the talk of the town? 412 00:17:00,932 --> 00:17:04,545 Why would anybody do that? 413 00:17:04,588 --> 00:17:07,983 I'm saying it's plausible, okay? But don't take our word for it. 414 00:17:08,027 --> 00:17:10,072 NARRATOR: Newsmen Jim Forbes and Tom Colbert 415 00:17:10,116 --> 00:17:12,988 are deep into their presentation of their theory 416 00:17:13,032 --> 00:17:16,296 that onetime D.B. Cooper suspect Robert Rackstraw 417 00:17:16,339 --> 00:17:18,907 may be the infamous skyjacker. 418 00:17:18,950 --> 00:17:21,475 The men want to present their case to the FBI. 419 00:17:21,518 --> 00:17:22,954 But first, they have to convince 420 00:17:22,998 --> 00:17:25,957 former FBI Assistant Director Tom Fuentes 421 00:17:26,001 --> 00:17:28,395 and crime journalist Billy Jensen. 422 00:17:28,438 --> 00:17:31,615 Among other assertions, they say Rackstraw posed 423 00:17:31,659 --> 00:17:34,879 as a Swiss baron named Norman De Winter 424 00:17:34,923 --> 00:17:37,186 in the days leading up to the Cooper hijacking. 425 00:17:37,230 --> 00:17:40,233 Want you to see the people who remember Norman De Winter, 426 00:17:40,276 --> 00:17:42,452 and you should see their reaction when we showed them 427 00:17:42,496 --> 00:17:44,541 pictures and video of Robert Rackstraw. 428 00:17:48,154 --> 00:17:50,199 FORBES: So what we're looking at: 429 00:17:50,243 --> 00:17:54,551 a picture taken about 18 months prior to the hijacking. 430 00:17:54,595 --> 00:17:57,032 -Right there. -Yeah. Look at that. 431 00:17:57,076 --> 00:17:59,469 FORBES: That feels familiar to you? 432 00:17:59,513 --> 00:18:01,341 MATTINGLY: A little bit, yeah. 433 00:18:01,384 --> 00:18:03,604 SODERBERG: I'm not a hundred percent sure, 434 00:18:03,647 --> 00:18:06,781 but it's a familiar face to me. 435 00:18:06,824 --> 00:18:09,131 My reaction is that's not him. 436 00:18:09,175 --> 00:18:11,046 FORBES: That's October '71. 437 00:18:11,090 --> 00:18:12,439 The last month and a half. 438 00:18:12,482 --> 00:18:13,527 Prior to the hijacking. 439 00:18:13,570 --> 00:18:15,746 -Okay. -Wow. 440 00:18:15,790 --> 00:18:17,357 MATTINGLY: Now, I got excited when I see this picture. 441 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:19,098 SODERBERG: Oh. 442 00:18:19,141 --> 00:18:20,621 That's more like it. 443 00:18:20,664 --> 00:18:22,144 DOWNING: That does look like him. 444 00:18:22,188 --> 00:18:23,276 JAROSS: Yeah, that would be the guy. 445 00:18:23,319 --> 00:18:25,582 -At least as I remember. -Yep. 446 00:18:25,626 --> 00:18:28,629 I don't know. 447 00:18:28,672 --> 00:18:30,021 INTERVIEWER: Are you willing to state, one way or the other, 448 00:18:30,065 --> 00:18:32,285 whether or not you're D.B. Cooper? 449 00:18:32,328 --> 00:18:34,896 I'm afraid of heights. 450 00:18:34,939 --> 00:18:37,377 His gestures and then his way of talking there 451 00:18:37,420 --> 00:18:40,815 I would say is very much what I remember. 452 00:18:40,858 --> 00:18:44,514 The eyes, the way he would close his eyes and open his eyes, 453 00:18:44,558 --> 00:18:47,256 brought back a memory for me. 454 00:18:47,300 --> 00:18:49,693 The shape of the face is correct. 455 00:18:49,737 --> 00:18:52,479 And look at those eyes. Eyes are the same. 456 00:18:52,522 --> 00:18:55,003 Norm had nice eyes. 457 00:18:55,046 --> 00:18:57,136 -Kind of resonates. -It does. 458 00:18:57,179 --> 00:18:58,963 FORBES: This could have been the guy who spent 459 00:18:59,007 --> 00:19:00,574 -three nights in your apartment? -MATTINGLY: Yes. 460 00:19:00,617 --> 00:19:02,663 PALMBERG: I would be hard put to say 461 00:19:02,706 --> 00:19:07,450 definitely that is the person we knew as Norman De Winter. 462 00:19:07,494 --> 00:19:12,368 That possibly could be the person that was here in Astoria. 463 00:19:12,412 --> 00:19:15,154 That really, really looks like the guy that I remember. 464 00:19:17,721 --> 00:19:20,463 To recap our Norman De Winter, Robert Rackstraw timeline. 465 00:19:20,507 --> 00:19:22,552 Less than a month after Robert Rackstraw 466 00:19:22,596 --> 00:19:25,338 is booted from the Army, this character named Norman De Winter 467 00:19:25,381 --> 00:19:27,383 pops up in Astoria, Oregon. 468 00:19:27,427 --> 00:19:30,560 He's there until late September, when he suddenly disappears, 469 00:19:30,604 --> 00:19:32,649 never seen in that town again. 470 00:19:32,693 --> 00:19:35,522 Suddenly, Rackstraw pops up in Northern California, 471 00:19:35,565 --> 00:19:39,047 picking up his sister and his kids to head to Disneyland. 472 00:19:39,090 --> 00:19:41,745 When the trip's done, he vanishes. 473 00:19:41,789 --> 00:19:43,094 FORBES: And then Norman De Winter 474 00:19:43,138 --> 00:19:45,096 pops up in Corvallis, Oregon. 475 00:19:45,140 --> 00:19:48,230 That's only 95 nautical miles from Portland. 476 00:19:48,274 --> 00:19:51,886 And he's there until the day before the hijacking. 477 00:19:51,929 --> 00:19:56,064 Never seen or heard from anywhere again. 478 00:19:56,107 --> 00:19:58,327 Then a third character pops up. 479 00:19:58,371 --> 00:20:00,199 His name is Dan Cooper. 480 00:20:00,242 --> 00:20:03,071 He's getting on a plane in Portland, heading to Seattle. 481 00:20:03,114 --> 00:20:05,029 Okay, yeah. 482 00:20:05,073 --> 00:20:08,207 I think that the Astoria story, to me, 483 00:20:08,250 --> 00:20:10,121 in the building blocks of this case, 484 00:20:10,165 --> 00:20:13,168 it's an interesting parallel, but... 485 00:20:13,212 --> 00:20:16,215 it doesn't require Rackstraw to be De Winter 486 00:20:16,258 --> 00:20:18,260 for Rackstraw to be D.B. Cooper. 487 00:20:18,304 --> 00:20:21,263 JENSEN: You can see the look on Tom's face, you know. 488 00:20:21,307 --> 00:20:24,788 And I don't want to kill this guy's dream of having 489 00:20:24,832 --> 00:20:26,442 Rackstraw be De Winter be Cooper. 490 00:20:26,486 --> 00:20:28,879 But I just don't buy it. I don't buy it. 491 00:20:28,923 --> 00:20:33,057 I think he was just a con man that was just going through. 492 00:20:33,101 --> 00:20:34,624 We know that after the hijacking, 493 00:20:34,668 --> 00:20:38,193 Rackstraw was living in Northern California. 494 00:20:38,237 --> 00:20:40,891 And we know that, in '73, he starts working 495 00:20:40,935 --> 00:20:43,503 for a flooring company out of San Francisco. 496 00:20:43,546 --> 00:20:45,374 It's a job that takes him everywhere, 497 00:20:45,418 --> 00:20:49,030 and he's working with Pudgy Hunt and Dick Briggs. 498 00:20:49,073 --> 00:20:52,033 FORBES: These are the guys, back in the beginning of our story, 499 00:20:52,076 --> 00:20:54,340 that connected Briggs to the money find. 500 00:20:54,383 --> 00:20:56,342 So you're trying to say that just two years after 501 00:20:56,385 --> 00:21:00,215 he pulls off the crime of the century, bags $200,000, 502 00:21:00,259 --> 00:21:02,870 that two years later, he's breaking his back 503 00:21:02,913 --> 00:21:04,306 laying gym floor? 504 00:21:04,350 --> 00:21:06,265 FORBES: I'll go with that. 505 00:21:06,308 --> 00:21:09,790 Our theory on motive is that it had nothing to do with money. 506 00:21:09,833 --> 00:21:13,272 That the money was... secondary. 507 00:21:13,315 --> 00:21:16,710 In our theory, this is still a "stick it to the man," 508 00:21:16,753 --> 00:21:19,495 "you did me wrong, and I'm gonna do you right." 509 00:21:24,892 --> 00:21:26,937 -How you doing? Billy Jensen. -Jack Immendorf. How are you? 510 00:21:26,981 --> 00:21:28,852 COLBERT: The next part of my investigation 511 00:21:28,896 --> 00:21:32,769 is where Rackstraw officially becomes a D.B. Cooper suspect. 512 00:21:32,813 --> 00:21:35,337 Jack Immendorf has been a private investigator 513 00:21:35,381 --> 00:21:37,078 for over 40 years. 514 00:21:37,121 --> 00:21:39,559 He is a member of our cold case team, 515 00:21:39,602 --> 00:21:41,212 and he's gonna help tell the rest of the story. 516 00:21:41,256 --> 00:21:43,867 We learn, in 1977, that Rackstraw 517 00:21:43,911 --> 00:21:46,217 has been investigated for check fraud. 518 00:21:46,261 --> 00:21:48,698 Allegedly writing and cashing checks 519 00:21:48,742 --> 00:21:51,527 from his company he had with his stepfather. 520 00:21:51,571 --> 00:21:54,225 Eventually, it totaled $75,000, 521 00:21:54,269 --> 00:21:57,228 from three banks in two counties. 522 00:21:57,272 --> 00:21:58,969 FORBES: Investigators in two counties, 523 00:21:59,013 --> 00:22:01,537 San Joaquin and Calaveras, are starting to look at this, 524 00:22:01,581 --> 00:22:05,846 and by December of 1977, 525 00:22:05,889 --> 00:22:10,546 they go to serve a search warrant at the Rackstraw house. 526 00:22:10,590 --> 00:22:13,984 When police come to arrest him, he's gone. 527 00:22:14,028 --> 00:22:16,335 They come to arrest him for check fraud, 528 00:22:16,378 --> 00:22:19,903 and they find out he has 150 pounds of explosives. 529 00:22:19,947 --> 00:22:21,557 But nobody knows where he is. 530 00:22:21,601 --> 00:22:25,344 So the D.A. adds to the check fraud 531 00:22:25,387 --> 00:22:29,217 a charge of illegal possession of explosives. 532 00:22:29,260 --> 00:22:31,611 Just about this time is when Jack starts honing in 533 00:22:31,654 --> 00:22:35,789 a little more on Rackstraw's whereabouts. 534 00:22:35,832 --> 00:22:39,619 When Bob disappeared, one of the people we talked to 535 00:22:39,662 --> 00:22:44,319 recalled Bob bragging about some type of opportunities 536 00:22:44,363 --> 00:22:46,669 with helicopters in the Middle East, 537 00:22:46,713 --> 00:22:51,413 and it didn't take a scientist to figure out 538 00:22:51,457 --> 00:22:54,503 the only helicopter operations in the Middle East 539 00:22:54,547 --> 00:22:59,160 were in Iran, and it was with Bell Helicopter. 540 00:22:59,203 --> 00:23:00,727 NARRATOR: In the 1970s, 541 00:23:00,770 --> 00:23:03,817 the Shah of Iran was building what would become 542 00:23:03,860 --> 00:23:06,515 the third largest helicopter fleet in the world. 543 00:23:06,559 --> 00:23:08,387 Bell Helicopter was their primary supplier. 544 00:23:08,430 --> 00:23:10,606 They owned and operated a factory 545 00:23:10,650 --> 00:23:12,434 where thousands of American workers 546 00:23:12,478 --> 00:23:15,568 and contractors were employed. 547 00:23:15,611 --> 00:23:17,657 When the Shah was overthrown by the Islamic Revolution 548 00:23:17,700 --> 00:23:21,748 in 1979, the Americans were expelled. 549 00:23:21,791 --> 00:23:25,142 FORBES: The FBI went out and got a felony fugitive warrant 550 00:23:25,186 --> 00:23:26,796 against Rackstraw. 551 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,670 Bell forced Rackstraw out of Tehran, 552 00:23:30,713 --> 00:23:32,672 and his plane had a stopover in Paris, 553 00:23:32,715 --> 00:23:34,935 and when he stops over, two FBI agents 554 00:23:34,978 --> 00:23:37,546 board the plane because there's a warrant for his arrest, 555 00:23:37,590 --> 00:23:39,592 and then, the second they touch down at JFK, 556 00:23:39,635 --> 00:23:41,463 he's arrested by the FBI. 557 00:23:41,507 --> 00:23:43,770 I've never been able to wrap my head around the fact 558 00:23:43,813 --> 00:23:46,729 that the FBI got so involved in bringing him back from Iran 559 00:23:46,773 --> 00:23:48,296 on these petty state charges. 560 00:23:48,339 --> 00:23:50,690 Why would they go to that degree 561 00:23:50,733 --> 00:23:53,606 if they weren't, at the core of it, really interested in him 562 00:23:53,649 --> 00:23:55,477 as possibly being D.B. Cooper? 563 00:23:55,521 --> 00:23:57,305 The way that normally would work is, 564 00:23:57,348 --> 00:24:00,221 if the local authorities bring charges against somebody, 565 00:24:00,264 --> 00:24:02,484 and there's reason to believe that person 566 00:24:02,528 --> 00:24:04,225 has fled the jurisdiction, 567 00:24:04,268 --> 00:24:07,358 then the local authorities go to the FBI 568 00:24:07,402 --> 00:24:10,144 and request an unlawful flight to avoid prosecution warrant, 569 00:24:10,187 --> 00:24:11,972 UFAP warrant. 570 00:24:12,015 --> 00:24:15,366 All of that legal procedure to get him out of Iran 571 00:24:15,410 --> 00:24:18,065 was based on the California state charges, 572 00:24:18,108 --> 00:24:20,502 not in any way connected to Cooper at the time. 573 00:24:20,546 --> 00:24:22,548 FORBES: Right, but aren't those pretty penny-ante charges 574 00:24:22,591 --> 00:24:25,072 for the FBI to be going to that extent? 575 00:24:25,115 --> 00:24:26,856 Putting agents on the plane with him 576 00:24:26,900 --> 00:24:28,858 and flying him from Paris to JFK, 577 00:24:28,902 --> 00:24:30,860 that would indicate that they've already got 578 00:24:30,904 --> 00:24:33,341 a little more serious of an interest in him. 579 00:24:33,384 --> 00:24:34,690 So, yes, I would agree with you, 580 00:24:34,734 --> 00:24:36,649 it does sound like, at this point, 581 00:24:36,692 --> 00:24:40,043 they're going above and beyond the normal call of duty 582 00:24:40,087 --> 00:24:42,785 for checks and explosives. 583 00:24:42,829 --> 00:24:44,439 There must be more to this. 584 00:24:44,483 --> 00:24:49,052 -Yeah. -Right. 585 00:24:49,096 --> 00:24:50,576 FORBES: Back in, uh, 586 00:24:50,619 --> 00:24:53,796 early '78, thanks to Jack Immendorf, 587 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,495 State Department, FBI collaborate, 588 00:24:56,538 --> 00:24:59,062 go to extreme measures, it seems, 589 00:24:59,106 --> 00:25:02,544 to bring back Rackstraw from Iran for what are essentially 590 00:25:02,588 --> 00:25:04,067 penny-ante charges 591 00:25:04,111 --> 00:25:05,547 NARRATOR: Investigative journalists 592 00:25:05,591 --> 00:25:07,984 Tom Colbert and Jim Forbes are presenting 593 00:25:08,028 --> 00:25:10,813 their theory that onetime D.B. Cooper suspect, 594 00:25:10,857 --> 00:25:13,947 Robert Rackstraw, may be the infamous skyjacker. 595 00:25:13,990 --> 00:25:16,427 In the four years since meeting with the FBI, 596 00:25:16,471 --> 00:25:19,605 Colbert says that he and his team have nearly tripled 597 00:25:19,648 --> 00:25:21,345 the amount of circumstantial evidence, 598 00:25:21,389 --> 00:25:23,783 and he's hoping that he will be able to convince 599 00:25:23,826 --> 00:25:26,655 former FBI Assistant Director Tom Fuentes 600 00:25:26,699 --> 00:25:30,050 and veteran crime reporter Billy Jensen 601 00:25:30,093 --> 00:25:32,748 to bring his new findings back to the FBI. 602 00:25:32,792 --> 00:25:34,968 FORBES: But here's where we're gonna take one of the most 603 00:25:35,011 --> 00:25:37,536 bizarre twists of the entire case. 604 00:25:37,579 --> 00:25:39,625 He's going down to San Joaquin County 605 00:25:39,668 --> 00:25:42,541 to face charges on bank fraud 606 00:25:42,584 --> 00:25:44,673 and illegal explosives. 607 00:25:44,717 --> 00:25:47,502 He's due in court the next day, 608 00:25:47,546 --> 00:25:50,287 so what he does is he goes down to the airport in Stockton, 609 00:25:50,331 --> 00:25:54,814 leases a plane, puts his sister on as next of kin 610 00:25:54,857 --> 00:25:56,598 for in case anything happens... 611 00:25:56,642 --> 00:25:58,382 -Let me stop you right there. -Sure. 612 00:25:58,426 --> 00:26:00,036 He's allowed to lease a plane while he's out on bail? 613 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,212 -COLBERT: Mm-hmm. -FORBES: Yeah, he had a pilot's license. 614 00:26:02,256 --> 00:26:03,474 -Yeah, has a pilot's license. -Hadn't been revoked. 615 00:26:03,518 --> 00:26:04,606 Hasn't been convicted of anything. 616 00:26:04,650 --> 00:26:06,608 Mm-hmm. Okay. 617 00:26:06,652 --> 00:26:09,959 Jack is driving down the coast, and you hear a news report. 618 00:26:10,003 --> 00:26:12,396 We're driving back from San Jose, 619 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,312 listening to the radio, and all of a sudden, 620 00:26:15,356 --> 00:26:18,577 we hear a bulletin regarding a plane on fire, 621 00:26:18,620 --> 00:26:20,317 a mayday, 622 00:26:20,361 --> 00:26:23,930 and the pilot indicating that he may have to ditch. 623 00:26:23,973 --> 00:26:27,760 And then I was absolutely blown away. 624 00:26:27,803 --> 00:26:30,240 The pilot, Robert Wesley Rackstraw. 625 00:26:30,284 --> 00:26:32,155 It's like, "Son of a bitch! 626 00:26:32,199 --> 00:26:33,635 He's gonna disappear again." 627 00:26:33,679 --> 00:26:36,290 -[chuckles] -I couldn't believe it. 628 00:26:36,333 --> 00:26:38,031 Now, did they do any kind of, uh... 629 00:26:38,074 --> 00:26:40,033 uh, research and recovery or anything like that? 630 00:26:40,076 --> 00:26:43,036 There was a massive search in the crash site. 631 00:26:43,079 --> 00:26:45,604 There were five planes, three Coast Guard ships, 632 00:26:45,647 --> 00:26:47,649 12 miles out all the way to dusk. 633 00:26:47,693 --> 00:26:50,347 Nothing-- no body, no wreckage. 634 00:26:50,391 --> 00:26:52,001 FORBES: And absolutely no one, 635 00:26:52,045 --> 00:26:54,569 including Jack, buys it. No one. 636 00:26:54,613 --> 00:26:59,052 Just like that, out of the blue, bang, he's gone again. 637 00:26:59,095 --> 00:27:03,012 We think he ran because the FBI was closing in on him 638 00:27:03,056 --> 00:27:05,319 as a Cooper skyjacking suspect. 639 00:27:05,362 --> 00:27:08,409 COLBERT: I truly feel that the reason he was out 640 00:27:08,452 --> 00:27:12,892 was to set up what happened along the Columbia River. 641 00:27:12,935 --> 00:27:16,156 We have him, about December of '78, 642 00:27:16,199 --> 00:27:18,549 there during his fugitive run. 643 00:27:18,593 --> 00:27:21,291 Now, what was happening right after that? 644 00:27:21,335 --> 00:27:24,555 We have Briggs telling his runners, "I'm D.B. Cooper." 645 00:27:24,599 --> 00:27:26,862 I think he gave him the money. 646 00:27:26,906 --> 00:27:28,908 And then after that, 14 months later, 647 00:27:28,951 --> 00:27:31,127 that money is found on the shore. 648 00:27:31,171 --> 00:27:33,216 JENSEN: So Tom Colbert's theory is that Rackstraw 649 00:27:33,260 --> 00:27:34,783 gave the money to Briggs, 650 00:27:34,827 --> 00:27:36,437 Briggs arranged with Dwayne Ingram 651 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:38,221 to find the money 652 00:27:38,265 --> 00:27:40,920 so everyone would think that D.B. Cooper was dead, 653 00:27:40,963 --> 00:27:44,532 and thus Rackstraw couldn't be D.B. Cooper. 654 00:27:44,575 --> 00:27:46,316 That's some theory. 655 00:27:46,360 --> 00:27:48,101 So he wasn't gone really that long this time. 656 00:27:48,144 --> 00:27:50,103 It was about three months. 657 00:27:50,146 --> 00:27:52,714 He's found 300 miles to the south in Fullerton, California, 658 00:27:52,758 --> 00:27:54,629 assuming a fake name. 659 00:27:54,673 --> 00:27:57,676 The plane is at a now defunct, privately-run airport 660 00:27:57,719 --> 00:28:00,417 in Huntington Beach called Meadowlark Airport. 661 00:28:00,461 --> 00:28:03,986 Uh, he had repainted it, puts tape over the tail number, 662 00:28:04,030 --> 00:28:05,509 adds a new tail number, and then, 663 00:28:05,553 --> 00:28:08,034 on the I.D. on the dash, does the same thing. 664 00:28:08,077 --> 00:28:09,470 Then he's apprehended, 665 00:28:09,513 --> 00:28:11,820 brought back up north to face trial. 666 00:28:11,864 --> 00:28:13,953 And so now he's facing not only check fraud 667 00:28:13,996 --> 00:28:15,911 and illegal possession of explosives, 668 00:28:15,955 --> 00:28:18,435 but also, oh, he stole a plane. 669 00:28:18,479 --> 00:28:20,742 JENSEN: I'm here to find out who D.B. Cooper is. 670 00:28:20,786 --> 00:28:23,440 I'm not here to find out how bad this guy is. 671 00:28:23,484 --> 00:28:25,051 I don't need to hear about the check frauds 672 00:28:25,094 --> 00:28:26,269 and all this other things; I want to hear more 673 00:28:26,313 --> 00:28:27,836 about the hijacking. 674 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,796 COLBERT: The FBI quietly investigated Rackstraw 675 00:28:30,839 --> 00:28:34,060 for a year, but for the first time, it goes national. 676 00:28:34,103 --> 00:28:36,802 FORBES: And that's when he gives this strange interview. 677 00:28:36,845 --> 00:28:39,543 NEWSMAN: Today at the San Joaquin County Courthouse, 678 00:28:39,587 --> 00:28:42,503 this 35-year-old man, Robert Rackstraw, 679 00:28:42,546 --> 00:28:44,461 made a brief court appearance 680 00:28:44,505 --> 00:28:46,072 on charges of stealing an airplane 681 00:28:46,115 --> 00:28:48,248 and stockpiling explosives. 682 00:28:48,291 --> 00:28:51,207 Rackstraw is being kept in solitary confinement 683 00:28:51,251 --> 00:28:53,775 partly because the FBI still believes 684 00:28:53,819 --> 00:28:55,777 he may be D.B. Cooper, 685 00:28:55,821 --> 00:28:59,912 the skyjacker who parachuted out of a 727 over Oregon 686 00:28:59,955 --> 00:29:03,611 with $200,000 in 1971. 687 00:29:03,654 --> 00:29:05,613 You think it's legit that you could be one of the suspects, 688 00:29:05,656 --> 00:29:07,310 one of the thousand? 689 00:29:07,354 --> 00:29:09,660 Oh, yes. If I was an investigator, definitely so. 690 00:29:09,704 --> 00:29:11,662 I wouldn't discount myself. 691 00:29:11,706 --> 00:29:12,925 I wouldn't, no. 692 00:29:12,968 --> 00:29:15,579 Or a person like myself. 693 00:29:15,623 --> 00:29:17,799 Were you in the Washington area at that time? 694 00:29:17,843 --> 00:29:20,149 I've been in the Washington area a number of times. 695 00:29:20,193 --> 00:29:21,847 The FBI's verified all that. 696 00:29:21,890 --> 00:29:24,066 That's one of the reasons they keep hounding me. 697 00:29:24,110 --> 00:29:26,765 Well, I've been told that they've spent something like 698 00:29:26,808 --> 00:29:30,725 $3.5 million-- that's including this D.B. Cooper business. 699 00:29:30,769 --> 00:29:33,597 Some $160,000 between these two counties 700 00:29:33,641 --> 00:29:36,513 to try and make me a criminal, and they haven't succeeded yet. 701 00:29:36,557 --> 00:29:39,038 He received three years for check fraud. 702 00:29:39,081 --> 00:29:41,954 He plead no contest to the other charges. 703 00:29:41,997 --> 00:29:44,957 He was given, with time served, two years. 704 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:46,741 He only served one. 705 00:29:46,785 --> 00:29:49,004 He gets out in the summer of 1980. 706 00:29:49,048 --> 00:29:50,571 He gets two years probation. 707 00:29:50,614 --> 00:29:53,182 Once that's over, he hits the books. 708 00:29:53,226 --> 00:29:56,316 He gets a degree from San Francisco University 709 00:29:56,359 --> 00:30:00,450 in business; he gets a law degree at another school. 710 00:30:00,494 --> 00:30:02,844 He winds up being an arbitration expert. 711 00:30:02,888 --> 00:30:04,846 In fact, he starts teaching arbitration 712 00:30:04,890 --> 00:30:07,806 at UC Riverside for ten years. 713 00:30:07,849 --> 00:30:10,199 Two of the years becoming head of the legal department. 714 00:30:10,243 --> 00:30:12,245 I can't find any serious trouble 715 00:30:12,288 --> 00:30:15,030 that this guy's been in from then till now. 716 00:30:15,074 --> 00:30:16,379 FORBES: Somewhere along this time, 717 00:30:16,423 --> 00:30:18,468 and we're not sure exactly why, 718 00:30:18,512 --> 00:30:21,123 the FBI seems to lose interest in Robert Rackstraw 719 00:30:21,167 --> 00:30:22,995 as a Cooper suspect. 720 00:30:23,038 --> 00:30:25,301 FUENTES: Well, the policy, you know, 721 00:30:25,345 --> 00:30:27,260 is in existence-- it's not just an FBI policy, 722 00:30:27,303 --> 00:30:29,131 it's also the U.S. Attorney's office 723 00:30:29,175 --> 00:30:32,482 and the Department of Justice-- on how much of a pending case 724 00:30:32,526 --> 00:30:34,615 is allowed to be revealed to the public. 725 00:30:34,658 --> 00:30:37,618 And many people contact the FBI 726 00:30:37,661 --> 00:30:40,273 and ask for their identity to be protected. 727 00:30:45,321 --> 00:30:46,932 FORBES: From the beginning, we mentioned that 728 00:30:46,975 --> 00:30:49,151 Tom began assembling this great cold case team 729 00:30:49,195 --> 00:30:51,197 back when he started four and a half years ago. 730 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:53,895 It's very extensive, it's widely varied, 731 00:30:53,939 --> 00:30:56,419 but we wanted to bring a couple of the members here today 732 00:30:56,463 --> 00:30:58,508 to speak with you directly, answer your questions, 733 00:30:58,552 --> 00:31:00,771 and illuminate a little further some of the evidence 734 00:31:00,815 --> 00:31:02,904 that we've uncovered. 735 00:31:02,948 --> 00:31:05,124 So, first is Jack Trimarco, former FBI. 736 00:31:05,167 --> 00:31:06,777 Uh, Jeff Renz, who is 737 00:31:06,821 --> 00:31:08,910 a law professor at the University of Montana. 738 00:31:08,954 --> 00:31:12,348 Most recent member of the cold case team is Dr. Kris Mohandie, 739 00:31:12,392 --> 00:31:16,439 and Kris is a forensic criminal psychologist. 740 00:31:16,483 --> 00:31:18,964 And I think you're gonna find this really illuminating, 741 00:31:19,007 --> 00:31:20,922 some of the information they have to share with us. 742 00:31:20,966 --> 00:31:23,229 We met Bill Mitchell, 743 00:31:23,272 --> 00:31:25,013 who was a key witness for the FBI 744 00:31:25,057 --> 00:31:26,275 in the first three years. 745 00:31:26,319 --> 00:31:28,364 Sat across from Cooper. 746 00:31:28,408 --> 00:31:30,236 We showed him a lineup of six photos, 747 00:31:30,279 --> 00:31:32,151 and one of them was Rackstraw. 748 00:31:32,194 --> 00:31:34,544 A member of our cold case team, John Bocciolatt, 749 00:31:34,588 --> 00:31:36,198 conducted that test. 750 00:31:36,242 --> 00:31:39,201 I'm gonna show you some photographs. 751 00:31:39,245 --> 00:31:41,029 They're gonna just be displayed in 752 00:31:41,073 --> 00:31:44,163 what we call a six-pack window display. 753 00:31:44,206 --> 00:31:48,210 The suspect may or may not be in the package. 754 00:31:48,254 --> 00:31:52,084 If you see the suspect in there, would you point to the suspect? 755 00:32:12,452 --> 00:32:14,106 Well... [chuckles] 756 00:32:14,149 --> 00:32:16,499 That's Richard McCoy. 757 00:32:16,543 --> 00:32:17,979 NARRATOR: The name Richard McCoy 758 00:32:18,023 --> 00:32:20,460 is synonymous with the D.B. Cooper case. 759 00:32:20,503 --> 00:32:23,593 McCoy became a suspect in 1972 760 00:32:23,637 --> 00:32:26,988 when, five months after Cooper, he skyjacked a 727, 761 00:32:27,032 --> 00:32:31,297 then parachuted out with $500,000 in ransom. 762 00:32:31,340 --> 00:32:33,734 McCoy was later caught 763 00:32:33,777 --> 00:32:36,563 and eventually killed in a shootout with the FBI. 764 00:32:36,606 --> 00:32:40,001 But the Bureau was never able to conclusively link him 765 00:32:40,045 --> 00:32:42,743 to the Cooper skyjacking. 766 00:32:44,875 --> 00:32:47,269 MITCHELL: It's just incredibly hard 767 00:32:47,313 --> 00:32:50,011 to remember 44 years ago. 768 00:32:50,055 --> 00:32:51,491 BOCCIOLATT: So let me ask you, 769 00:32:51,534 --> 00:32:54,015 if you pointed to this person 770 00:32:54,059 --> 00:32:56,104 -and it's Richard McCoy... -I did. 771 00:32:56,148 --> 00:33:00,717 ...on a scale of one to ten, ten absolutely being 772 00:33:00,761 --> 00:33:02,458 what you remember as Richard McCoy, 773 00:33:02,502 --> 00:33:07,637 and one not being anybody related to Richard McCoy, 774 00:33:07,681 --> 00:33:10,379 what number would you put on that? 775 00:33:10,423 --> 00:33:12,338 MITCHELL: Looks like Richard McCoy, 776 00:33:12,381 --> 00:33:16,429 and so I would probably give that six or seven... six. 777 00:33:16,472 --> 00:33:21,347 You know, none of them strike me as... 778 00:33:21,390 --> 00:33:22,696 D.B. Cooper. 779 00:33:22,739 --> 00:33:24,611 I mean, I... [stammers] 780 00:33:24,654 --> 00:33:26,526 I don't remember. 781 00:33:30,399 --> 00:33:32,575 I-I can't do it. 782 00:33:32,619 --> 00:33:35,622 -Thank you very much. -Sure. 783 00:33:35,665 --> 00:33:38,233 You know, when you lay out six photos, 784 00:33:38,277 --> 00:33:41,062 you make a comparative analysis. 785 00:33:41,106 --> 00:33:44,239 Now, what was interesting about this is he just went boom. 786 00:33:44,283 --> 00:33:45,980 I agree that the fact he went 787 00:33:46,024 --> 00:33:48,548 straight to that photo has significance. 788 00:33:48,591 --> 00:33:49,810 -As an investigative lead? -Yes. Exactly. 789 00:33:49,853 --> 00:33:51,551 -Exactly. -I agree with that. 790 00:33:51,594 --> 00:33:53,553 Not as an evidentiary matter that you can introduce. 791 00:33:53,596 --> 00:33:56,077 An evidentiary issue is a different one. Yeah. Mm-hmm. 792 00:33:56,121 --> 00:34:00,299 FUENTES: The photo array is very questionable at best. 793 00:34:00,342 --> 00:34:02,127 You know, to me, I could see where somebody could make 794 00:34:02,170 --> 00:34:03,519 a misidentification very easy. 795 00:34:03,563 --> 00:34:05,695 In this case, you have Billy Mitchell 796 00:34:05,739 --> 00:34:07,654 paying more attention to the flight attendants 797 00:34:07,697 --> 00:34:09,830 than the old man sitting in the seat. 798 00:34:09,873 --> 00:34:11,701 It's kind of like, yeah, yeah, no, what's with him? 799 00:34:11,745 --> 00:34:13,399 And how good of a view... 800 00:34:13,442 --> 00:34:15,488 Did he ever have a full facial view 801 00:34:15,531 --> 00:34:17,751 of Cooper sitting over there? 802 00:34:17,794 --> 00:34:20,406 MOHANDIE: Rackstraw's Army photo, 803 00:34:20,449 --> 00:34:22,843 compared to the McCoy photos, 804 00:34:22,886 --> 00:34:24,758 they don't look anything alike, in my opinion. 805 00:34:24,801 --> 00:34:26,673 There was so much emotional arousal 806 00:34:26,716 --> 00:34:28,936 associated with what happened 807 00:34:28,979 --> 00:34:33,549 when that initial information was encoded into memory. 808 00:34:33,593 --> 00:34:37,423 And it conjures up a visceral reaction years later. 809 00:34:37,466 --> 00:34:40,121 It's like a key that unlocks a door 810 00:34:40,165 --> 00:34:41,905 that goes to the room 811 00:34:41,949 --> 00:34:44,691 where he houses his prototypes for skyjackers. 812 00:34:44,734 --> 00:34:48,042 So his hijacker prototype is D.B. Cooper. 813 00:34:48,086 --> 00:34:50,697 He confuses it with McCoy, mistakenly, 814 00:34:50,740 --> 00:34:54,004 but really he's pointing out D.B. Cooper. 815 00:34:54,048 --> 00:34:56,442 That's somebody he recognizes. 816 00:34:56,485 --> 00:34:58,183 FUENTES: Now the question is-- like there is with so many other 817 00:34:58,226 --> 00:35:00,402 eyewitness accounts-- would it be accurate? 818 00:35:00,446 --> 00:35:02,317 MOHANDIE: I-I don't think there's a coincidence there. 819 00:35:02,361 --> 00:35:05,799 I think that the psychology of that... 820 00:35:05,842 --> 00:35:07,844 of that response is significant, 821 00:35:07,888 --> 00:35:09,629 and I don't think it was an accident. 822 00:35:12,632 --> 00:35:14,416 JENSEN: Sounds like, hey, there could be something there, 823 00:35:14,460 --> 00:35:16,462 but, uh, listen, 824 00:35:16,505 --> 00:35:17,854 you know, psychologists are always gonna say 825 00:35:17,898 --> 00:35:19,204 there could be something there. 826 00:35:19,247 --> 00:35:25,079 Sometimes a banana's just a banana. 827 00:35:25,123 --> 00:35:26,776 FORBES: At the beginning of this presentation, 828 00:35:26,820 --> 00:35:30,040 we said our D.B. Cooper suspect is still alive. 829 00:35:30,084 --> 00:35:32,521 Now we'd like to show you what happened 830 00:35:32,565 --> 00:35:34,741 when we reached out to our suspect. 831 00:35:34,784 --> 00:35:36,786 NARRATOR: Jim Forbes and Tom Colbert 832 00:35:36,830 --> 00:35:39,180 are in the final hour of their presentation 833 00:35:39,224 --> 00:35:41,704 to former FBI Assistant Director Tom Fuentes 834 00:35:41,748 --> 00:35:44,272 and veteran crime journalist Billy Jensen. 835 00:35:44,316 --> 00:35:46,405 For the past three days, 836 00:35:46,448 --> 00:35:48,058 they've laid out a theory that they believe shows 837 00:35:48,102 --> 00:35:50,409 that onetime D.B. Cooper suspect 838 00:35:50,452 --> 00:35:54,413 Robert Rackstraw might be the infamous skyjacker. 839 00:35:54,456 --> 00:35:55,805 FORBES: So, in the summer of 2012, 840 00:35:55,849 --> 00:35:57,416 that's when Tom reached out to me, 841 00:35:57,459 --> 00:36:00,201 'cause he wanted me to make the contact with Rackstraw. 842 00:36:00,245 --> 00:36:02,421 Tom wondered if, in fact, he would answer the call, 843 00:36:02,464 --> 00:36:03,987 and I said, "I know he'll answer the call, 844 00:36:04,031 --> 00:36:05,641 "because if he is D.B. Cooper, 845 00:36:05,685 --> 00:36:07,426 "he's gonna want to know what we got, 846 00:36:07,469 --> 00:36:09,428 "and if he's not, he's gonna want to play us 847 00:36:09,471 --> 00:36:12,387 like he played NBC back in 1979." 848 00:36:12,431 --> 00:36:13,997 There was no problem at all. 849 00:36:14,041 --> 00:36:15,956 He immediately got back in touch with me. 850 00:36:15,999 --> 00:36:18,698 We spent, uh, over an hour on the phone. 851 00:36:18,741 --> 00:36:21,179 So when you finally got in touch with him, what did he say? 852 00:36:21,222 --> 00:36:23,137 That I knew that at one time he was a suspect 853 00:36:23,181 --> 00:36:24,921 and quickly exonerated 854 00:36:24,965 --> 00:36:26,619 and I wanted to talk to him about that experience; 855 00:36:26,662 --> 00:36:28,273 I'm sure it was hell on he and his family. 856 00:36:28,316 --> 00:36:29,839 And he said, "Oh, yeah, it was," 857 00:36:29,883 --> 00:36:32,015 and the conversation rolled on from that point. 858 00:36:32,059 --> 00:36:33,713 And that was the first of several phone calls. 859 00:36:33,756 --> 00:36:35,889 Over time, then, it was clear that, 860 00:36:35,932 --> 00:36:37,717 while he initially agreed to an interview, 861 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:39,588 he wasn't gonna do one. 862 00:36:39,632 --> 00:36:42,374 I eventually said to Tom, "Look, this story goes nowhere 863 00:36:42,417 --> 00:36:44,071 "until we ask him these questions. 864 00:36:44,114 --> 00:36:46,378 We need to go down and have an encounter with him." 865 00:36:46,421 --> 00:36:49,207 We went down to have a discussion with him 866 00:36:49,250 --> 00:36:51,165 in May of 2013. 867 00:36:51,209 --> 00:36:53,385 COLBERT: Our first approach was me, showing up. 868 00:36:53,428 --> 00:36:55,691 I drove my car right up to his store. 869 00:36:55,735 --> 00:36:58,999 Bob just thinks of me as another client showing up. 870 00:36:59,042 --> 00:37:01,828 I walked up with a big smile, handed him my business card, 871 00:37:01,871 --> 00:37:04,700 and he just... "[Bleep]! It's Tom Colbert!" 872 00:37:04,744 --> 00:37:06,876 You know, he had no idea I was coming. 873 00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:09,923 And I say, "Bob, we know who you are. 874 00:37:09,966 --> 00:37:13,796 "And if you come forward and tell us what you did, 875 00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:18,236 uh, and go on camera, you can tell your story." 876 00:37:18,279 --> 00:37:21,413 He says, "Yeah, I... I... I said I was Cooper, 877 00:37:21,456 --> 00:37:23,806 uh, but I was just pretending." 878 00:37:23,850 --> 00:37:26,548 I said, "You know that Jim Forbes is here, too?" 879 00:37:26,592 --> 00:37:28,681 And he was surprised at that. 880 00:37:28,724 --> 00:37:30,291 And I said, "Jim would love to come by." 881 00:37:30,335 --> 00:37:33,294 And after a little negotiation, Jim showed up. 882 00:37:33,338 --> 00:37:35,949 He'd been out with, uh, a colleague of his, 883 00:37:35,992 --> 00:37:37,516 and they were doing a test run on a boat. 884 00:37:37,559 --> 00:37:39,735 And they pull it into this chain-link fence 885 00:37:39,779 --> 00:37:41,041 on the property. 886 00:37:41,084 --> 00:37:43,173 Bob, it's Jim Forbes. 887 00:37:43,217 --> 00:37:46,351 I've got some easy questions. 888 00:37:46,394 --> 00:37:50,529 FORBES: Time passes, time passes, and eventually, 889 00:37:50,572 --> 00:37:52,270 he just meanders up to the fence, 890 00:37:52,313 --> 00:37:54,097 as though nothing's happening, we're not there, 891 00:37:54,141 --> 00:37:55,403 just ignoring us. 892 00:37:55,447 --> 00:37:57,362 Then I walked up to the fence, 893 00:37:57,405 --> 00:37:59,451 and this is the conversation we had. 894 00:37:59,494 --> 00:38:01,496 Hmm. 895 00:38:01,540 --> 00:38:03,455 FORBES [recorded]: Let me ask you a simple question. 896 00:38:03,498 --> 00:38:05,065 No, you're not gonna ask me any questions. 897 00:38:05,108 --> 00:38:06,414 -Oh, I'm gonna ask you lots of... -I told you. 898 00:38:06,458 --> 00:38:08,155 I'm gonna ask you lots of questions. 899 00:38:08,198 --> 00:38:09,504 -I won't ask any questions... -That's okay. 900 00:38:09,548 --> 00:38:11,332 ...and I won't answer any questions. 901 00:38:11,376 --> 00:38:12,377 -That's okay. That's your prerogative. -Attaboy. 902 00:38:12,420 --> 00:38:14,117 Are you the person 903 00:38:14,161 --> 00:38:15,467 -who boarded a flight... -What did I just tell you? 904 00:38:15,510 --> 00:38:17,164 ...on November 24, 1971, 905 00:38:17,207 --> 00:38:20,080 identifying yourself as Dan Cooper? 906 00:38:20,123 --> 00:38:22,256 -Maybe I didn't... -Did you hijack a plane 907 00:38:22,300 --> 00:38:24,606 when it was coming out of Seattle toward Reno? 908 00:38:24,650 --> 00:38:25,955 -Did you jump out with... -Maybe I wasn't clear, Jim. 909 00:38:25,999 --> 00:38:27,435 Maybe I wasn't clear. 910 00:38:27,479 --> 00:38:29,132 -Are you that person? -Don't try... 911 00:38:29,176 --> 00:38:30,917 don't try and play you're Dan Rather. 912 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:34,094 FORBES: Are you D.B. Cooper, yes or no? 913 00:38:34,137 --> 00:38:36,009 I answered your question, Jim. 914 00:38:36,052 --> 00:38:39,099 Bob, we have eyewitnesses that have you in Astoria, Oregon, 915 00:38:39,142 --> 00:38:42,145 from the time of your discharge in 1971 916 00:38:42,189 --> 00:38:44,191 to the time of the hijacking. Were you there? 917 00:38:44,234 --> 00:38:47,673 FUENTES: I think the approach of Rackstraw at the marina, 918 00:38:47,716 --> 00:38:50,153 and the way that was conducted, I just think... 919 00:38:50,197 --> 00:38:52,460 it didn't strike me as being 920 00:38:52,504 --> 00:38:55,202 the best thing to do at that point in time, 921 00:38:55,245 --> 00:38:57,509 uh, to try to do an ambush interview of him. 922 00:38:57,552 --> 00:39:00,338 Now, you see the media sometimes do that. 923 00:39:00,381 --> 00:39:02,209 "No, tell us, what'dou did." You know. 924 00:39:02,252 --> 00:39:03,602 And you see that. 925 00:39:03,645 --> 00:39:05,125 Well, they never get a good answer, 926 00:39:05,168 --> 00:39:06,518 you know, when they do that kind of thing, 927 00:39:06,561 --> 00:39:08,433 but it looks good on the evening news, 928 00:39:08,476 --> 00:39:10,870 that they were all, uh, you know, aggressive 929 00:39:10,913 --> 00:39:11,958 against the subject. 930 00:39:12,001 --> 00:39:13,742 FORBES: Bob, why won't you 931 00:39:13,786 --> 00:39:14,961 just come out and say 932 00:39:15,004 --> 00:39:16,919 that you are not D.B. Cooper? 933 00:39:19,095 --> 00:39:21,402 We'll wait for you. 934 00:39:23,317 --> 00:39:25,145 FORBES: I can't understand 935 00:39:25,188 --> 00:39:28,235 why he would not either 936 00:39:28,278 --> 00:39:30,716 get in my face and say, "Get the hell out of here. 937 00:39:30,759 --> 00:39:32,761 You're crazy, Forbes. I'm not Cooper." 938 00:39:32,805 --> 00:39:34,807 or just say, "You need to leave," 939 00:39:34,850 --> 00:39:36,199 or "I'm not Cooper," or whatever. 940 00:39:36,243 --> 00:39:37,810 What do you think, Tom? 941 00:39:37,853 --> 00:39:40,769 Well, I think the camera makes all the difference. 942 00:39:40,813 --> 00:39:42,467 I think he's-he's in 943 00:39:42,510 --> 00:39:46,906 a defensive mode to just not let this go anywhere at all. 944 00:39:46,949 --> 00:39:49,604 All right, so what happens next? 945 00:39:49,648 --> 00:39:51,867 So... simple question. 946 00:39:51,911 --> 00:39:54,696 Did you board a Northwest Orient flight 947 00:39:54,740 --> 00:39:56,872 -on November 24, 1971... -What difference does it make? 948 00:39:56,916 --> 00:39:58,961 -...as the name Dan Cooper? -Jim... 949 00:39:59,005 --> 00:40:00,441 Because if you're, if you're D.B. Cooper, 950 00:40:00,485 --> 00:40:02,095 the world would want to know your story, Bob. 951 00:40:02,138 --> 00:40:04,576 Sure they would. So would the FBI, 952 00:40:04,619 --> 00:40:06,186 and the secret indictment in Washington, D.C.... 953 00:40:06,229 --> 00:40:07,970 Bob, you're a folk hero. 954 00:40:08,014 --> 00:40:09,885 -Oh, no, no. -You're a folk hero. Nobody cares. 955 00:40:09,929 --> 00:40:12,018 -FORBES: No denial. -Mm-hmm. 956 00:40:12,061 --> 00:40:13,411 "Why not say? You're a folk hero. 957 00:40:13,454 --> 00:40:15,456 Why not let the public know?" 958 00:40:15,500 --> 00:40:17,284 Well, because there's a secret indictment. 959 00:40:17,327 --> 00:40:19,199 That's the first thing he goes to. 960 00:40:19,242 --> 00:40:22,507 NARRATOR: In 1976, five years after the skyjacking, 961 00:40:22,550 --> 00:40:24,465 at the point when the statute of limitations 962 00:40:24,509 --> 00:40:27,555 to prosecute the crime was about to run out, 963 00:40:27,599 --> 00:40:30,689 the FBI secured what is known as a John Doe indictment. 964 00:40:30,732 --> 00:40:34,257 That means that if and when the FBI collars D.B. Cooper, 965 00:40:34,301 --> 00:40:36,434 the U.S. Attorney will be allowed to prosecute 966 00:40:36,477 --> 00:40:39,349 to the full extent of the law. 967 00:40:41,439 --> 00:40:42,614 I think he's trying to, at this point, 968 00:40:42,657 --> 00:40:44,180 just hope you go away 969 00:40:44,224 --> 00:40:46,748 and lose patience and give up and leave. 970 00:40:46,792 --> 00:40:49,664 FUENTES: I think in-in a case where, if you have somebody 971 00:40:49,708 --> 00:40:52,188 that you've been investigating for the number of years 972 00:40:52,232 --> 00:40:53,973 and the amount of effort 973 00:40:54,016 --> 00:40:57,063 that had gone into the Colbert-Forbes investigation, 974 00:40:57,106 --> 00:41:00,588 you wouldn't want to, um, sacrifice it, let's say, 975 00:41:00,632 --> 00:41:02,416 with one attempt at an ambush interview. 976 00:41:02,460 --> 00:41:05,114 What you want to do is give him a reason to talk to you, 977 00:41:05,158 --> 00:41:07,334 not a reason to shout across a fence 978 00:41:07,377 --> 00:41:08,727 that he's not gonna talk to you. 979 00:41:08,770 --> 00:41:11,207 This is our last discussion. 980 00:41:11,251 --> 00:41:12,557 I'll pass. Damn if I... 981 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:13,949 And I don't remember any of it, you know? 982 00:41:13,993 --> 00:41:15,516 -I'm so old. -FORBES: But that's why 983 00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:16,778 we should sit and talk, Bob. 984 00:41:16,822 --> 00:41:18,650 -Old and feeble. -One last question. 985 00:41:18,693 --> 00:41:20,695 [engine starts] 986 00:41:20,739 --> 00:41:22,392 Did you board that Northwest flight 987 00:41:22,436 --> 00:41:23,872 and hijack it for $200,000? 988 00:41:23,916 --> 00:41:26,353 I've never been on a Northwest flight. 989 00:41:26,396 --> 00:41:28,529 Why are you so evasive 990 00:41:28,573 --> 00:41:30,618 about what should be a simple thing to say no? 991 00:41:30,662 --> 00:41:33,229 Because you guys make such a big deal out of it. 992 00:41:33,273 --> 00:41:34,970 FORBES: It would've been... 993 00:41:35,014 --> 00:41:37,277 Why would you call NBC News when you were in jail? 994 00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:39,018 You know, you asked me that before, 995 00:41:39,061 --> 00:41:40,759 and honest to God, I don't remember any of that. 996 00:41:40,802 --> 00:41:42,500 FORBES: Why did you... 997 00:41:42,543 --> 00:41:44,240 -I got to go. -Why did you steal an airplane 998 00:41:44,284 --> 00:41:48,070 to avoid... facing... 999 00:41:48,114 --> 00:41:49,463 RACKSTRAW: The attorney will be calling you. 1000 00:41:49,507 --> 00:41:51,334 FORBES: Thank you. 1001 00:41:55,687 --> 00:41:58,385 COLBERT: I get a response six days later, 1002 00:41:58,428 --> 00:42:00,953 and this is a very short note from the attorney. 1003 00:42:00,996 --> 00:42:03,999 "Here is my client's response to your offer. 1004 00:42:04,043 --> 00:42:06,698 "Now we will consider a real offer, 1005 00:42:06,741 --> 00:42:09,527 "if they provide virtually every piece of data 1006 00:42:09,570 --> 00:42:11,790 "and information that they have acquired 1007 00:42:11,833 --> 00:42:14,706 "in the past years, as they claim, 1008 00:42:14,749 --> 00:42:18,187 subject to our review of same." 1009 00:42:18,231 --> 00:42:20,450 That was his comment. 1010 00:42:20,494 --> 00:42:23,149 And that's where we left it. 1011 00:42:23,192 --> 00:42:24,977 So that's our case. 1012 00:42:25,020 --> 00:42:27,849 JENSEN: Colbert says he has 93 pieces of evidence. 1013 00:42:27,893 --> 00:42:29,547 But all this evidence is within the story 1014 00:42:29,590 --> 00:42:31,070 that we're hearing right now. 1015 00:42:31,113 --> 00:42:34,508 And very little about this story is about D.B. Cooper. 1016 00:42:34,552 --> 00:42:35,988 All we're hearing are details 1017 00:42:36,031 --> 00:42:38,077 about this specific gentleman named Rackstraw. 1018 00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:40,079 FORBES: And this isn't, you know, 1019 00:42:40,122 --> 00:42:41,646 tied up in a nice little knot for us. 1020 00:42:41,689 --> 00:42:43,430 Yeah, we're digging every day, 1021 00:42:43,473 --> 00:42:44,866 we're coming up with new information every day. 1022 00:42:44,910 --> 00:42:46,651 COLBERT: We think we're ready, 1023 00:42:46,694 --> 00:42:48,478 and we'd like to go back to the FBI, 1024 00:42:48,522 --> 00:42:50,480 and we hope you guys can help us do that. 1025 00:42:50,524 --> 00:42:52,308 I think Rackstraw's very compelling, 1026 00:42:52,352 --> 00:42:54,528 and we certainly have a lot of questions 1027 00:42:54,572 --> 00:42:56,225 from our investigation of 1028 00:42:56,269 --> 00:42:58,358 all the other suspects that we've looked at. 1029 00:42:58,401 --> 00:43:01,361 FUENTES: We don't know why the FBI stopped looking at him. 1030 00:43:01,404 --> 00:43:03,842 We know that he was a prime suspect in the '70s, 1031 00:43:03,885 --> 00:43:06,018 and we know now that you went back to them 1032 00:43:06,061 --> 00:43:07,846 just a few years ago, 1033 00:43:07,889 --> 00:43:10,370 but it doesn't tell us why they stopped looking at him 1034 00:43:10,413 --> 00:43:13,329 or didn't prosecute him. 1035 00:43:13,373 --> 00:43:17,595 Yes, based on this presentation, we will go to the FBI 1036 00:43:17,638 --> 00:43:20,641 and ask why they stopped working on Rackstraw. 1037 00:43:20,685 --> 00:43:22,034 Now, they may not give that up, 1038 00:43:22,077 --> 00:43:24,514 but it would be great to learn that. 1039 00:43:24,558 --> 00:43:25,820 -COLBERT: It would. It would. -FORBES: Thank you. 1040 00:43:25,864 --> 00:43:27,387 Thank you. 1041 00:43:27,430 --> 00:43:28,910 Appreciate it, guys, more than you know. 1042 00:43:28,954 --> 00:43:30,129 FUENTES: We'll be in touch soon. 1043 00:43:30,172 --> 00:43:32,566 Excellent. Thanks, Tom. 1044 00:43:32,610 --> 00:43:33,872 -Appreciate it. -COLBERT: Thank you. 1045 00:43:36,701 --> 00:43:39,268 FUENTES: It is a very compelling story. 1046 00:43:39,312 --> 00:43:42,663 And if you were personally involved in this investigation 1047 00:43:42,707 --> 00:43:44,883 for several years, like they have been, 1048 00:43:44,926 --> 00:43:48,147 I could see where they would be completely convinced. 1049 00:43:48,190 --> 00:43:50,889 JENSEN: He's a viable suspect, 1050 00:43:50,932 --> 00:43:53,195 even though I did have a couple of issues. 1051 00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:56,590 There are so many coincidental and circumstantial events 1052 00:43:56,634 --> 00:43:58,374 that prove that he could be, 1053 00:43:58,418 --> 00:44:01,334 but to go so far as to say, "It's him," 1054 00:44:01,377 --> 00:44:06,513 uh, you know, I'm not ready to make that jump. 1055 00:44:06,556 --> 00:44:09,037 FORBES [over phone]:So good luck, have fun and, uh, 1056 00:44:09,081 --> 00:44:10,778 we look forward to seeing you in L.A. 1057 00:44:10,822 --> 00:44:13,651 -JENSEN: Thank you. -FUENTES: Thanks, guys. -Bye, guys. 1058 00:44:13,694 --> 00:44:15,043 [phone beeps] 1059 00:44:15,087 --> 00:44:16,523 FORBES: I wish I was going on that trip. 1060 00:44:16,566 --> 00:44:17,785 I bet you do. 1061 00:44:17,829 --> 00:44:19,787 You know, I truly feel 1062 00:44:19,831 --> 00:44:22,181 what would be the best thing to happen for me 1063 00:44:22,224 --> 00:44:23,835 is closure for Tina. 1064 00:44:23,878 --> 00:44:25,445 NARRATOR: After spending the last three days 1065 00:44:25,488 --> 00:44:27,926 presenting a D.B. Cooper theory 1066 00:44:27,969 --> 00:44:29,710 that he spent five years working on, 1067 00:44:29,754 --> 00:44:31,799 journalist Tom Colbert 1068 00:44:31,843 --> 00:44:33,192 and his partner, fellow journalist Jim Forbes, 1069 00:44:33,235 --> 00:44:34,802 are still thinking about 1070 00:44:34,846 --> 00:44:37,326 the one interview they couldn't get. 1071 00:44:37,370 --> 00:44:39,415 So you want to talk to Tina. 1072 00:44:39,459 --> 00:44:41,983 I wish we could talk to Tina, but I think she's made it clear 1073 00:44:42,027 --> 00:44:44,072 she won't talk if she believes he could be out there. 1074 00:44:44,116 --> 00:44:46,509 NARRATOR: "Tina" is Tina Mucklow, 1075 00:44:46,553 --> 00:44:50,600 the flight attendant who spent the most time with D.B. Cooper. 1076 00:44:50,644 --> 00:44:54,126 I would love to convince her we have identified the man, 1077 00:44:54,169 --> 00:44:57,129 he's being watched, tell us your story. 1078 00:44:57,172 --> 00:44:58,478 That would be incredible. 1079 00:44:58,521 --> 00:45:00,785 And bring her closure. 1080 00:45:00,828 --> 00:45:02,961 'Cause... 'cause everybody says it's a victimless crime. 1081 00:45:03,004 --> 00:45:05,441 Uh-uh. I think of Tina, I think of the pilots, 1082 00:45:05,485 --> 00:45:06,834 I think of everyone else. 1083 00:45:06,878 --> 00:45:09,445 But if our telling this story 1084 00:45:09,489 --> 00:45:13,275 brings her peace, boy, that would be incredible. 1085 00:45:14,973 --> 00:45:17,845 NARRATOR: While Colbert and Forbes stay back in L.A., 1086 00:45:17,889 --> 00:45:20,718 former FBI Assistant Director Tom Fuentes 1087 00:45:20,761 --> 00:45:22,154 and veteran crime journalist Billy Jensen 1088 00:45:22,197 --> 00:45:23,721 are headed north to Seattle 1089 00:45:23,764 --> 00:45:25,766 where they have set a meeting with Curtis Eng, 1090 00:45:25,810 --> 00:45:30,292 the agent in charge of the D.B. Cooper skyjacking case. 1091 00:45:30,336 --> 00:45:32,947 JENSEN: The things that I would like to know right now-- 1092 00:45:32,991 --> 00:45:35,776 I want to know about, you know, this character Rackstraw, 1093 00:45:35,820 --> 00:45:39,084 and whether he was eliminated and why he was eliminated. 1094 00:45:39,127 --> 00:45:40,825 I want to know about the eight cigarette butts that were 1095 00:45:40,868 --> 00:45:42,435 left on the plane by D.B. Cooper. 1096 00:45:42,478 --> 00:45:44,742 Those are the questions that I want to know. 1097 00:45:44,785 --> 00:45:46,700 NARRATOR: Fuentes and Jensen 1098 00:45:46,744 --> 00:45:49,703 will seek answers for Tom Colbert and Jim Forbes, 1099 00:45:49,747 --> 00:45:51,749 answers to whether or not the FBI 1100 00:45:51,792 --> 00:45:54,708 would reconsider Colbert's and Forbes's theory 1101 00:45:54,752 --> 00:45:58,407 that onetime D.B. Cooper suspect Robert W. Rackstraw 1102 00:45:58,451 --> 00:46:00,975 may be the infamous skyjacker. 1103 00:46:02,324 --> 00:46:03,891 -[line beeps] -Hi, Bob. 1104 00:46:03,935 --> 00:46:05,893 This is Billy Jensen. I'm an investigator. 1105 00:46:05,937 --> 00:46:08,635 I just heard a pretty interesting story about you. 1106 00:46:08,678 --> 00:46:10,550 If you could, give me a call back, uh, 1107 00:46:10,593 --> 00:46:12,726 'cause I'd love to talk to you about some things. 1108 00:46:12,770 --> 00:46:14,772 Bye-bye. 1109 00:46:14,815 --> 00:46:16,425 JENSEN: It'd be great to talk to Rackstraw. 1110 00:46:16,469 --> 00:46:17,600 He's a Cooper suspect. 1111 00:46:17,644 --> 00:46:19,385 And they left a lot on the table 1112 00:46:19,428 --> 00:46:20,908 when they went to talk to him the first time. 1113 00:46:20,952 --> 00:46:22,823 I'd love to sit down with him 1114 00:46:22,867 --> 00:46:24,738 and listen to what he has to say. 1115 00:46:24,782 --> 00:46:27,132 NARRATOR: Robert Rackstraw isn't the only person 1116 00:46:27,175 --> 00:46:30,004 featured in the Colbert/Forbes presentation for whom 1117 00:46:30,048 --> 00:46:32,615 the two investigators have questions. 1118 00:46:32,659 --> 00:46:34,487 JENSEN: Hi, Dwayne. This is Billy Jensen. 1119 00:46:34,530 --> 00:46:36,576 I'm an investigator looking into the D.B. Cooper case. 1120 00:46:36,619 --> 00:46:37,533 How are you today? 1121 00:46:40,972 --> 00:46:42,930 Dwayne Ingram and his eight-year-old son 1122 00:46:42,974 --> 00:46:45,193 found some of D.B. Cooper's ransom money 1123 00:46:45,237 --> 00:46:48,327 along the Columbia River in 1980, 1124 00:46:48,370 --> 00:46:50,111 nine years after the skyjacking. 1125 00:46:50,155 --> 00:46:53,898 According to Colbert and Forbes, a man named Dick Briggs 1126 00:46:53,941 --> 00:46:56,074 allegedly predicted, days before the find, 1127 00:46:56,117 --> 00:46:58,990 that Ingram would discover the cash. 1128 00:46:59,033 --> 00:47:01,775 Their assertion is that the money was planted 1129 00:47:01,819 --> 00:47:03,646 and that Ingram was in on it. 1130 00:47:03,690 --> 00:47:06,084 It's a significant claim and a cornerstone 1131 00:47:06,127 --> 00:47:09,304 in the foundation of the Colbert/Forbes theory. 1132 00:47:09,348 --> 00:47:11,089 Well, we were just showed an interview 1133 00:47:11,132 --> 00:47:13,178 from a guy named Jim Forbes who came down to your house 1134 00:47:13,221 --> 00:47:14,875 and gave you a line of questioning. 1135 00:47:14,919 --> 00:47:17,008 And... suffice to say 1136 00:47:17,051 --> 00:47:19,619 that you looked pretty agitated on that interview. 1137 00:47:30,935 --> 00:47:32,893 Is there anything to his allegations? 1138 00:47:48,169 --> 00:47:50,258 When's the last time that you were up at Tena Bar? 1139 00:47:54,393 --> 00:47:55,742 JENSEN: Would you be willing to come down to the river 1140 00:47:55,785 --> 00:47:58,049 at Tena Bar and walk the site with us? 1141 00:47:58,092 --> 00:47:59,833 Yeah, we'd love to get your take on everything. 1142 00:48:03,358 --> 00:48:06,274 Why'd you pick this place for, for a good place to camp? 1143 00:48:06,318 --> 00:48:08,450 INGRAM: I had a dog. 1144 00:48:08,494 --> 00:48:10,888 So I loaded him up one day after work 1145 00:48:10,931 --> 00:48:13,934 and I come over here and worm my way around, 1146 00:48:13,978 --> 00:48:15,893 found a way down in here, you know? 1147 00:48:15,936 --> 00:48:18,025 And I would run him on this beach. 1148 00:48:18,069 --> 00:48:20,245 Up and down, up and down, up and down. 1149 00:48:20,288 --> 00:48:22,421 It's a wonder he didn't find the money. 1150 00:48:22,464 --> 00:48:24,379 And then once I got down here, I thought, "Wow. 1151 00:48:24,423 --> 00:48:26,729 "This is the place to hang out 1152 00:48:26,773 --> 00:48:29,689 when you ain't hanging out somewhere else, you know?" 1153 00:48:29,732 --> 00:48:31,865 JENSEN: How do you think the money ended up here? 1154 00:48:31,909 --> 00:48:33,736 I don't really know. 1155 00:48:33,780 --> 00:48:36,391 And it didn't seem normal to me, though... 1156 00:48:36,435 --> 00:48:38,393 -Mm-hmm. -...the way it was. 1157 00:48:38,437 --> 00:48:41,266 It didn't seem normal at all. 1158 00:48:41,309 --> 00:48:44,660 This weren't scattered. 1159 00:48:44,704 --> 00:48:48,447 This was all three touching each other 1160 00:48:48,490 --> 00:48:51,406 and just rolled up so gingerly. 1161 00:48:51,450 --> 00:48:52,451 How deep was it? 1162 00:48:52,494 --> 00:48:53,626 Couldn't have been deep, 1163 00:48:53,669 --> 00:48:55,367 because he was eight years old. 1164 00:48:55,410 --> 00:48:57,238 The little skinny arms about like mine. 1165 00:48:57,282 --> 00:48:59,153 He was simply going like that. 1166 00:48:59,197 --> 00:49:00,502 He wasn't using a shovel or anything. 1167 00:49:00,546 --> 00:49:02,200 -He was just... -Uh-uh. 1168 00:49:02,243 --> 00:49:03,984 That was too simple-- you see what I mean? 1169 00:49:04,028 --> 00:49:05,725 -Right. -Yeah. 1170 00:49:05,768 --> 00:49:09,729 I was asked, "Where's the other 194,000?" 1171 00:49:09,772 --> 00:49:12,645 They were happy that you brought the six, you know, $5,800. 1172 00:49:12,688 --> 00:49:14,603 And they immediately thought, 1173 00:49:14,647 --> 00:49:16,692 "He's got the rest of the money somewhere." 1174 00:49:16,736 --> 00:49:20,131 I felt as though they thought that. 1175 00:49:20,174 --> 00:49:23,308 Seems to beg the question: Why would you pocket 194, 1176 00:49:23,351 --> 00:49:25,179 knowing you couldn't spend it? 1177 00:49:25,223 --> 00:49:27,747 I said, "I don't know where your money is." [chuckles] 1178 00:49:27,790 --> 00:49:30,402 I was asked, "Where-where do you think Cooper is?" 1179 00:49:30,445 --> 00:49:32,273 "How would I know? 1180 00:49:32,317 --> 00:49:34,188 "Maybe he's screwed up to his elbows 1181 00:49:34,232 --> 00:49:35,755 "on a mountain over there 1182 00:49:35,798 --> 00:49:37,365 "still trying to get his parachute open. 1183 00:49:37,409 --> 00:49:39,280 How would I know this, you see?" 1184 00:49:39,324 --> 00:49:40,760 'Cause I guess you were their first lead 1185 00:49:40,803 --> 00:49:42,805 in a long, long time, so... 1186 00:49:42,849 --> 00:49:45,330 But, you know, it's a shame when you try 1187 00:49:45,373 --> 00:49:47,201 to do something right 1188 00:49:47,245 --> 00:49:50,509 and... and everything starts going wrong. 1189 00:49:50,552 --> 00:49:54,034 I'd rather not found it at all. 1190 00:49:54,078 --> 00:49:56,341 JENSEN: Was Dwayne Ingram complicit in this crime? 1191 00:49:56,384 --> 00:49:57,995 Did he plant this? 1192 00:49:58,038 --> 00:50:00,432 Uh, it seems really far-fetched to me. 1193 00:50:00,475 --> 00:50:02,129 He certainly seems like a guy 1194 00:50:02,173 --> 00:50:05,654 that just found some money and was 1195 00:50:05,698 --> 00:50:09,615 unwittingly pulled into this crazy caper. 1196 00:50:11,486 --> 00:50:13,662 So this is gonna be exciting. 1197 00:50:13,706 --> 00:50:15,273 We go into the belly of the beast. 1198 00:50:15,316 --> 00:50:17,057 NARRATOR: Billy Jensen and Tom Fuentes 1199 00:50:17,101 --> 00:50:19,929 are back in Seattle for their meeting at the FBI. 1200 00:50:19,973 --> 00:50:21,670 The D.B. Cooper case falls 1201 00:50:21,714 --> 00:50:23,672 under the jurisdiction of this division. 1202 00:50:23,716 --> 00:50:26,632 ENG: This is the first time I've... 1203 00:50:26,675 --> 00:50:30,070 I've ever spoken to the media about anything in the FBI. 1204 00:50:30,114 --> 00:50:31,593 NARRATOR: Special Agent Curtis Eng 1205 00:50:31,637 --> 00:50:35,684 has been the lead agent on the case since 2010. 1206 00:50:35,728 --> 00:50:38,209 He met with Tom Colbert in 2012, 1207 00:50:38,252 --> 00:50:41,255 back when Colbert had just started his investigation 1208 00:50:41,299 --> 00:50:43,953 and had 33 pieces of circumstantial evidence-- 1209 00:50:43,997 --> 00:50:47,522 less than half of what he claims to have now. 1210 00:50:47,566 --> 00:50:49,437 Do you remember meeting Tom Colbert? 1211 00:50:49,481 --> 00:50:52,614 Yes, he-he came to the Seattle division 1212 00:50:52,658 --> 00:50:54,573 a couple years back. 1213 00:50:54,616 --> 00:50:57,402 I normally don't meet with people who have suspects, 1214 00:50:57,445 --> 00:51:01,232 but, um, in his situation, I made an exception. 1215 00:51:01,275 --> 00:51:03,408 Why'd you make an exception for him? 1216 00:51:03,451 --> 00:51:08,195 He was referred by another FBI division, 1217 00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:12,025 so I gave it its due diligence. 1218 00:51:12,069 --> 00:51:15,724 When individuals have come in to provide their theories to me, 1219 00:51:15,768 --> 00:51:20,207 I still cannot confirm or deny anything about the case. 1220 00:51:20,251 --> 00:51:21,817 I am taking their information, 1221 00:51:21,861 --> 00:51:23,558 but I'm not gonna give them any feedback. 1222 00:51:23,602 --> 00:51:25,473 It's-it's a one-way street. 1223 00:51:25,517 --> 00:51:28,215 If their information they give me is not useful, 1224 00:51:28,259 --> 00:51:31,262 I can't really tell them that. 1225 00:51:31,305 --> 00:51:33,960 NARRATOR: According to The Privacy Act of 1974, 1226 00:51:34,003 --> 00:51:36,789 the FBI is prohibited from publicly disclosing 1227 00:51:36,832 --> 00:51:38,660 details of a pending case, 1228 00:51:38,704 --> 00:51:41,228 unless those details are stated in an indictment 1229 00:51:41,272 --> 00:51:44,144 or become testimony in a legal proceeding. 1230 00:51:44,188 --> 00:51:45,972 JENSEN: And what was your impression 1231 00:51:46,015 --> 00:51:48,279 of Colbert and his investigation? 1232 00:51:48,322 --> 00:51:51,456 Although his presentation was thorough 1233 00:51:51,499 --> 00:51:56,025 and it was detailed, it didn't prove 1234 00:51:56,069 --> 00:51:58,332 that his suspect was Dan Cooper. 1235 00:51:58,376 --> 00:52:01,509 I can't go on nice presentations. 1236 00:52:01,553 --> 00:52:02,989 I have to go by evidence. 1237 00:52:03,032 --> 00:52:05,557 And that presentation 1238 00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:08,168 didn't give me any additional evidence 1239 00:52:08,212 --> 00:52:11,345 that I could use to prosecute the case. 1240 00:52:11,389 --> 00:52:13,434 There are times when I've concluded 1241 00:52:13,478 --> 00:52:16,742 that it's not the individual based on what I already know 1242 00:52:16,785 --> 00:52:19,266 and why they were eliminated years before 1243 00:52:19,310 --> 00:52:21,181 by my predecessors. 1244 00:52:21,225 --> 00:52:22,835 JENSEN: Colbert's entire investigation 1245 00:52:22,878 --> 00:52:25,881 is centered around a guy that the FBI has dismissed. 1246 00:52:25,925 --> 00:52:28,232 Now, they won't tell us the reasons why they dismissed him, 1247 00:52:28,275 --> 00:52:30,582 but as best they can, they are telling us 1248 00:52:30,625 --> 00:52:33,280 that Rackstraw is not the guy. 1249 00:52:33,324 --> 00:52:37,197 My job as an agent is not to help somebody 1250 00:52:37,241 --> 00:52:38,981 confirm their theories. 1251 00:52:39,025 --> 00:52:41,549 My job is to bring prosecutable cases 1252 00:52:41,593 --> 00:52:44,378 to the Assistant United States Attorney's office. 1253 00:52:44,422 --> 00:52:46,641 It is frustrating, 1254 00:52:46,685 --> 00:52:48,991 because the suspects that we already have, 1255 00:52:49,035 --> 00:52:52,647 the current evidence doesn't really eliminate them, 1256 00:52:52,691 --> 00:52:55,781 but it also doesn't prove that they did it, either. 1257 00:52:55,824 --> 00:52:57,565 Obviously, in 1971, 1258 00:52:57,609 --> 00:53:01,178 there was no, um, uh, forensic DNA. 1259 00:53:01,221 --> 00:53:03,223 But when you hear that the guy was a smoker 1260 00:53:03,267 --> 00:53:05,356 and that the guy did leave eight cigarette butts on the plane... 1261 00:53:05,399 --> 00:53:07,575 Nowadays, there's a protocol we follow 1262 00:53:07,619 --> 00:53:09,621 when we gather evidence. 1263 00:53:09,664 --> 00:53:10,970 Back then, they didn't have those protocols, 1264 00:53:11,013 --> 00:53:13,929 because DNA testing didn't exist. 1265 00:53:13,973 --> 00:53:16,802 So the DNA that we have obtained, 1266 00:53:16,845 --> 00:53:18,543 there's multiple donors on there. 1267 00:53:18,586 --> 00:53:21,285 It's not a complete profile. 1268 00:53:21,328 --> 00:53:24,244 So in court, it'd be useless. 1269 00:53:24,288 --> 00:53:26,725 They will not prosecute a case unless there's 1270 00:53:26,768 --> 00:53:30,555 ample evidence, and, um, in this situation, 1271 00:53:30,598 --> 00:53:33,427 in this case, there isn't ample evidence. 1272 00:53:33,471 --> 00:53:35,212 JENSEN: For Colbert and Forbes, 1273 00:53:35,255 --> 00:53:36,561 unless they have the parachutes or the money, 1274 00:53:36,604 --> 00:53:39,781 the FBI is not gonna answer the phone for them. 1275 00:53:39,825 --> 00:53:42,088 NARRATOR: As Fuentes and Jensen wrap up 1276 00:53:42,131 --> 00:53:44,090 their meeting with Agent Eng, the guys are summoned 1277 00:53:44,133 --> 00:53:46,266 by Public Affairs Specialist Ayn Dietrich-Williams. 1278 00:53:46,310 --> 00:53:48,094 [door beeps] 1279 00:53:48,137 --> 00:53:49,661 DIETRICH-WILLIAMS: We're preparing for a change 1280 00:53:49,704 --> 00:53:51,489 in status of the case, 1281 00:53:51,532 --> 00:53:54,231 and so for that reason, I'm going to have you talk 1282 00:53:54,274 --> 00:53:57,059 to the head of our office, the special agent in charge, 1283 00:53:57,103 --> 00:53:59,540 which is very unusual for us. 1284 00:53:59,584 --> 00:54:01,020 It's always easier to talk about a case 1285 00:54:01,063 --> 00:54:03,022 with a former FBI employee. 1286 00:54:03,065 --> 00:54:05,111 They get all the nuances of working the case 1287 00:54:05,154 --> 00:54:07,287 and they speak our language, in a way. 1288 00:54:07,331 --> 00:54:10,290 NARRATOR: Frank Montoya is the special agent 1289 00:54:10,334 --> 00:54:12,945 in charge of the FBI's Seattle division. 1290 00:54:12,988 --> 00:54:15,513 MONTOYA: D.B. Cooper-- as Americans, we have a tendency 1291 00:54:15,556 --> 00:54:17,384 to-to kind of lionize him. 1292 00:54:17,428 --> 00:54:19,604 It's-it's part of our culture. 1293 00:54:19,647 --> 00:54:21,388 But the fact of the matter is 1294 00:54:21,432 --> 00:54:23,651 the world has changed so much in 45 years. 1295 00:54:23,695 --> 00:54:26,611 And the-the nature of the challenges that we're facing, 1296 00:54:26,654 --> 00:54:29,527 the threats that we're facing have evolved as well. 1297 00:54:29,570 --> 00:54:32,443 And our resources are, frankly, just better served 1298 00:54:32,486 --> 00:54:34,009 in-in these other areas. 1299 00:54:34,053 --> 00:54:35,924 And so, we're about to make a transition, 1300 00:54:35,968 --> 00:54:37,926 an official transition in the case. 1301 00:54:37,970 --> 00:54:40,538 So is this case closed? 1302 00:54:48,197 --> 00:54:51,288 MONTOYA: The world has changed so much in 45 years. 1303 00:54:51,331 --> 00:54:53,812 And the-the nature of the challenges that we're facing, 1304 00:54:53,855 --> 00:54:56,380 the threats that we're facing have evolved as well. 1305 00:54:56,423 --> 00:54:59,252 And our resources are, frankly, 1306 00:54:59,296 --> 00:55:01,646 just better served in-in these other areas. 1307 00:55:01,689 --> 00:55:04,083 NARRATOR: Tom Fuentes's and Billy Jensen's meeting 1308 00:55:04,126 --> 00:55:06,215 with the FBI takes an unexpected turn 1309 00:55:06,259 --> 00:55:08,740 when Frank Montoya, the special agent 1310 00:55:08,783 --> 00:55:11,220 in charge of the Seattle division, 1311 00:55:11,264 --> 00:55:13,048 reveals he has a major announcement 1312 00:55:13,092 --> 00:55:16,225 about the D.B. Cooper case. 1313 00:55:16,269 --> 00:55:17,705 We're about to make a transition, 1314 00:55:17,749 --> 00:55:19,533 an official transition in the case, 1315 00:55:19,577 --> 00:55:21,535 and we'll be putting out a statement, uh, 1316 00:55:21,579 --> 00:55:24,625 on our Web site as well as via social media. 1317 00:55:24,669 --> 00:55:26,845 It's just this simple. "Following one of the longest 1318 00:55:26,888 --> 00:55:29,674 "and most exhaustive investigations in our history, 1319 00:55:29,717 --> 00:55:32,024 "the FBI will be redirecting resources 1320 00:55:32,067 --> 00:55:35,375 "allocated to the 45-year-old D.B. Cooper case 1321 00:55:35,419 --> 00:55:37,551 in order to focus on other investigative priorities." 1322 00:55:37,595 --> 00:55:40,772 JENSEN: After 40 years and all these different theories, 1323 00:55:40,815 --> 00:55:42,295 you want to find out who did it. 1324 00:55:42,339 --> 00:55:44,253 You want to leave no stone unturned. 1325 00:55:44,297 --> 00:55:46,821 But the FBI seems like they're at the end of their rope. 1326 00:55:46,865 --> 00:55:50,564 So the evidence will be boxed. 1327 00:55:50,608 --> 00:55:52,392 It'll be catalog boxed 1328 00:55:52,436 --> 00:55:54,481 and shipped back to our headquarters. 1329 00:55:54,525 --> 00:55:57,092 The files will also be moved back to our headquarters. 1330 00:55:57,136 --> 00:55:59,138 Um, and then we'll be moving on. 1331 00:55:59,181 --> 00:56:01,270 So is this case closed? 1332 00:56:01,314 --> 00:56:04,404 Administratively, yes. 1333 00:56:04,448 --> 00:56:08,190 It's not that we're turning our back on the investigation. 1334 00:56:08,234 --> 00:56:10,454 It's one of those things where if something did come up 1335 00:56:10,497 --> 00:56:13,065 that was worthy of our, of our, 1336 00:56:13,108 --> 00:56:16,503 of additional pursuit, we would absolutely go after it. 1337 00:56:16,547 --> 00:56:19,593 What would you consider a worthy lead? 1338 00:56:19,637 --> 00:56:22,074 Bottom line would be the money or-or the parachute. 1339 00:56:22,117 --> 00:56:24,555 FUENTES: The way the rules work in the federal 1340 00:56:24,598 --> 00:56:27,253 criminal justice system, if the United States Attorney's 1341 00:56:27,296 --> 00:56:30,909 office says, "We will not prosecute that case," 1342 00:56:30,952 --> 00:56:34,303 then you are to cease and desist investigation. 1343 00:56:34,347 --> 00:56:36,436 So if somebody shows up with anything other 1344 00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:38,351 really than the parachute or the money, 1345 00:56:38,395 --> 00:56:40,397 they're gonna be shown the door? 1346 00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:42,399 They'll be thanked for their interest and we'll move on 1347 00:56:42,442 --> 00:56:44,270 to the next case. 1348 00:56:44,313 --> 00:56:45,793 On behalf of a grateful FBI, 1349 00:56:45,837 --> 00:56:48,013 thank you for giving us more information, 1350 00:56:48,056 --> 00:56:49,971 but you're gonna have to look at 1351 00:56:50,015 --> 00:56:51,625 whether it's credible and whether 1352 00:56:51,669 --> 00:56:53,627 -it can lead to the prosecution. -Absolutely. 1353 00:56:53,671 --> 00:56:56,456 JENSEN: Wow, this is historic. 1354 00:56:56,500 --> 00:56:57,762 This is one of the most famous 1355 00:56:57,805 --> 00:56:59,851 unsolved crimes in American history. 1356 00:56:59,894 --> 00:57:01,722 After all the millions of words that have been written, 1357 00:57:01,766 --> 00:57:04,072 all the theories, all the books, 1358 00:57:04,116 --> 00:57:05,944 they're closing this case. 1359 00:57:05,987 --> 00:57:08,033 It's pretty incredible. 1360 00:57:08,076 --> 00:57:11,210 NARRATOR: While the FBI is essentially shutting the door 1361 00:57:11,253 --> 00:57:14,561 on the Colbert/Forbes theory, Fuentes and Jensen are about 1362 00:57:14,605 --> 00:57:18,173 to open one that has been closed for 45 years. 1363 00:57:18,217 --> 00:57:20,872 With the help of the FBI, Fuentes and Jensen 1364 00:57:20,915 --> 00:57:22,743 have secured a meeting 1365 00:57:22,787 --> 00:57:25,354 with the one person who spent the most amount of time 1366 00:57:25,398 --> 00:57:27,400 with the infamous skyjacker-- 1367 00:57:27,444 --> 00:57:31,360 the person who last saw him before he jumped into history 1368 00:57:31,404 --> 00:57:33,885 and the one person who Colbert and Forbes believe 1369 00:57:33,928 --> 00:57:36,453 is the key to confirming their theory. 1370 00:57:36,496 --> 00:57:37,366 Hello. [chuckles] 1371 00:57:37,410 --> 00:57:38,542 -Hi. -COLBERT: Hi. 1372 00:57:38,585 --> 00:57:40,065 NARRATOR: After a 45-year 1373 00:57:40,108 --> 00:57:42,720 self-imposed silence about her experience 1374 00:57:42,763 --> 00:57:45,505 with D.B. Cooper, flight attendant Tina Mucklow 1375 00:57:45,549 --> 00:57:47,725 has agreed to one last interview. 1376 00:57:47,768 --> 00:57:49,640 MUCKLOW: And this character I know. 1377 00:57:49,683 --> 00:57:51,337 -[laughter] -Tina. 1378 00:57:51,380 --> 00:57:54,122 -Hi, Bill. -Good to see you. 1379 00:57:54,166 --> 00:57:57,299 NARRATOR: Sitting side-by-side with Tina is Bill Rataczak. 1380 00:57:57,343 --> 00:58:00,520 Rataczak was the co-pilot of Flight 305. 1381 00:58:00,564 --> 00:58:03,610 He handled communications from the cockpit during the crime 1382 00:58:03,654 --> 00:58:06,352 and spoke for the crew in the immediate aftermath. 1383 00:58:06,395 --> 00:58:08,223 We felt he... 1384 00:58:08,267 --> 00:58:11,705 was assured that we were honoring his requests, 1385 00:58:11,749 --> 00:58:14,186 and therefore, we made no attempt 1386 00:58:14,229 --> 00:58:18,233 to impede his, uh... the completion of his, uh, 1387 00:58:18,277 --> 00:58:20,018 mission, if you will. 1388 00:58:20,061 --> 00:58:22,368 NARRATOR: Although Bill Rataczak has declined to speak 1389 00:58:22,411 --> 00:58:24,065 about Cooper for more than a decade, 1390 00:58:24,109 --> 00:58:28,026 like Tina, he has agreed to this one final interview 1391 00:58:28,069 --> 00:58:29,897 to ensure that there's an accurate record 1392 00:58:29,941 --> 00:58:32,030 of what happened that night. 1393 00:58:32,073 --> 00:58:33,858 RATACZAK: I ain't gonna give no more interviews 1394 00:58:33,901 --> 00:58:35,903 and talk about this thing. 1395 00:58:35,947 --> 00:58:38,384 It's not that I'm afraid to, I'm just tired of it. 1396 00:58:38,427 --> 00:58:42,519 It's 44 years in the making, and it's time to put it to bed. 1397 00:58:42,562 --> 00:58:44,564 JENSEN: The most important thing during an investigation 1398 00:58:44,608 --> 00:58:47,088 is to get to a first-person source. 1399 00:58:47,132 --> 00:58:50,091 So the fact that the FBI is closing this case 1400 00:58:50,135 --> 00:58:51,658 makes it that much more important 1401 00:58:51,702 --> 00:58:54,008 for us to be able to go and talk to these people 1402 00:58:54,052 --> 00:58:56,315 who interacted with him on the plane, 1403 00:58:56,358 --> 00:58:58,796 to get their final thoughts about what happened that night, 1404 00:58:58,839 --> 00:59:02,800 to talk to the people that had the most time with this man. 1405 00:59:02,843 --> 00:59:05,629 What was he like in general? 1406 00:59:05,672 --> 00:59:08,936 MUCKLOW: I think, at first, he was very, um, 1407 00:59:08,980 --> 00:59:13,419 cautious and careful with the whole crew. 1408 00:59:13,462 --> 00:59:16,378 Um, he... 1409 00:59:16,422 --> 00:59:18,990 was not a horrible person. 1410 00:59:19,033 --> 00:59:20,644 He didn't yell, he didn't scream. 1411 00:59:20,687 --> 00:59:24,604 There wasn't unusual behavior. 1412 00:59:24,648 --> 00:59:28,434 Um, he didn't seem to have delusional or paranoid 1413 00:59:28,477 --> 00:59:31,393 kind of ideation 1414 00:59:31,437 --> 00:59:33,831 He had an agenda, 1415 00:59:33,874 --> 00:59:38,879 and-and I kind of conveyed that to the cockpit. 1416 00:59:38,923 --> 00:59:44,581 And I think it was at that point that he opened the briefcase 1417 00:59:44,624 --> 00:59:46,408 and explained. 1418 00:59:46,452 --> 00:59:48,367 There were these red cylinders 1419 00:59:48,410 --> 00:59:52,806 and, uh, wires running out, and one was already 1420 00:59:52,850 --> 00:59:54,765 connected to the battery terminal, 1421 00:59:54,808 --> 00:59:57,071 and the other side was not connected. 1422 00:59:57,115 --> 01:00:00,292 He explained that 1423 01:00:00,335 --> 01:00:04,035 if he connected them to the battery, 1424 01:00:04,078 --> 01:00:05,602 that it would complete the circuit 1425 01:00:05,645 --> 01:00:07,386 and detonate the bomb. 1426 01:00:07,429 --> 01:00:09,562 What feeling was running through you at the time? 1427 01:00:09,606 --> 01:00:13,827 The first thought that came to my mind was, uh, 1428 01:00:13,871 --> 01:00:16,743 "Okay, bomb. 1429 01:00:16,787 --> 01:00:18,571 "Depressurization. 1430 01:00:18,615 --> 01:00:21,182 "Okay, what is gonna happen in the cabin? 1431 01:00:21,226 --> 01:00:22,923 "What are the people gonna have to deal with? 1432 01:00:22,967 --> 01:00:25,230 What am I gonna have to do to take care of the people?" 1433 01:00:25,273 --> 01:00:27,101 And then, all of the sudden, 1434 01:00:27,145 --> 01:00:30,670 it dawned on me that I was sitting next to him, 1435 01:00:30,714 --> 01:00:33,281 and that if there was an explosion, 1436 01:00:33,325 --> 01:00:39,200 I was going to be pulled out with him. 1437 01:00:39,244 --> 01:00:41,376 MUCKLOW: The first thought 1438 01:00:41,420 --> 01:00:44,771 that came to my mind was, uh, 1439 01:00:44,815 --> 01:00:47,295 "Okay, bomb. 1440 01:00:47,339 --> 01:00:48,993 "Depressurization. 1441 01:00:49,036 --> 01:00:51,865 "Okay, what is gonna happen in the cabin? 1442 01:00:51,909 --> 01:00:54,433 What am I gonna have to deal with?" 1443 01:00:54,476 --> 01:00:56,348 NARRATOR: After decades of remaining silent, 1444 01:00:56,391 --> 01:00:59,743 Northwest 305 flight attendant Tina Mucklow 1445 01:00:59,786 --> 01:01:02,006 and co-pilot Bill Rataczak are talking 1446 01:01:02,049 --> 01:01:04,922 to former FBI Assistant Director Tom Fuentes 1447 01:01:04,965 --> 01:01:08,055 and crime writer Billy Jensen. 1448 01:01:08,099 --> 01:01:11,232 I wanted to run, but on a 727, 1449 01:01:11,276 --> 01:01:13,800 there isn't any place to run. 1450 01:01:13,844 --> 01:01:15,802 NARRATOR: Prompted by the FBI's decision 1451 01:01:15,846 --> 01:01:19,197 to administratively close the 45-year-old case, 1452 01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:21,590 Rataczak and Mucklow are giving one last interview 1453 01:01:21,634 --> 01:01:25,029 about the night their flight from Portland to Seattle 1454 01:01:25,072 --> 01:01:27,640 was hijacked by the man known as D.B. Cooper. 1455 01:01:27,684 --> 01:01:29,990 MUCKLOW: At that point, 1456 01:01:30,034 --> 01:01:34,299 I really just, uh, prayed for the safety of the passengers 1457 01:01:34,342 --> 01:01:38,520 and, um, and for the hijacker as well. 1458 01:01:40,609 --> 01:01:42,873 NARRATOR: Tina Mucklow was responsible for 36 passengers 1459 01:01:42,916 --> 01:01:45,484 on the flight to Seattle, 1460 01:01:45,527 --> 01:01:49,096 and because she kept calm, none of them had any idea 1461 01:01:49,140 --> 01:01:52,012 that there was a man onboard threatening their lives. 1462 01:01:55,059 --> 01:01:57,757 When the 727 touched down in Portland, 1463 01:01:57,801 --> 01:02:00,934 Cooper demanded that Tina serve as the go-between 1464 01:02:00,978 --> 01:02:03,937 with the authorities charged with meeting his demands. 1465 01:02:03,981 --> 01:02:08,637 Tina made four trips to retrieve the $200,000 in ransom money 1466 01:02:08,681 --> 01:02:10,683 and four parachutes. 1467 01:02:10,727 --> 01:02:13,164 JENSEN: What was it like getting off the plane 1468 01:02:13,207 --> 01:02:16,210 and knowing that you had to go back on the plane? 1469 01:02:16,254 --> 01:02:18,647 MUCKLOW: It was my job. 1470 01:02:18,691 --> 01:02:20,998 Um, and the one thing I do remember, 1471 01:02:21,041 --> 01:02:25,263 and I don't know who it was-- whoever handed me the money, um, 1472 01:02:25,306 --> 01:02:27,395 said to me, "Are you okay?" 1473 01:02:27,439 --> 01:02:30,007 And I said, "Yes, I'll be okay." 1474 01:02:30,050 --> 01:02:32,313 And-and I went back on the airplane. 1475 01:02:36,404 --> 01:02:38,058 JENSEN: You give it to him. What happens? 1476 01:02:38,102 --> 01:02:41,801 RATACZAK: He wanted $200,000 in a knapsack. 1477 01:02:41,845 --> 01:02:45,544 The bank put it into a satchel bag. 1478 01:02:45,587 --> 01:02:47,720 MUCKLOW: So when he saw the laundry bag, 1479 01:02:47,764 --> 01:02:50,027 he was upset. 1480 01:02:50,070 --> 01:02:51,942 RATACZAK: I could hear him over the radio. 1481 01:02:51,985 --> 01:02:53,813 "I wanted that in a knapsack!" 1482 01:02:53,857 --> 01:02:55,815 And so we thought that maybe that 1483 01:02:55,859 --> 01:02:57,077 was gonna be the end of it right there, 1484 01:02:57,121 --> 01:02:58,818 if he had a death wish. 1485 01:02:58,862 --> 01:03:00,994 JENSEN: After you bring him the money, 1486 01:03:01,038 --> 01:03:03,910 uh, do you, is that when they say 1487 01:03:03,954 --> 01:03:05,694 that people can get off the plane? 1488 01:03:05,738 --> 01:03:08,175 MUCKLOW: I know we asked if the passengers 1489 01:03:08,219 --> 01:03:11,962 could get off now, um, and he said yes. 1490 01:03:13,398 --> 01:03:15,182 RATACZAK: The scene is this: 1491 01:03:15,226 --> 01:03:17,445 three pilots in the cockpit, 1492 01:03:17,489 --> 01:03:19,621 one hijacker in the back of the airplane, 1493 01:03:19,665 --> 01:03:22,842 Tina moving back and forth the airplane, 1494 01:03:22,886 --> 01:03:24,975 and the other two flight attendants right outside 1495 01:03:25,018 --> 01:03:26,759 the cockpit door. 1496 01:03:26,803 --> 01:03:29,196 So I thought that this was a good time 1497 01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:30,589 to tell those other two girls 1498 01:03:30,632 --> 01:03:32,460 the next time Tina left the airplane 1499 01:03:32,504 --> 01:03:36,247 to tell Tina to stay out and they stay out also. 1500 01:03:36,290 --> 01:03:38,118 This is crucial, 1501 01:03:38,162 --> 01:03:40,860 because if they had gone out of that airplane with Tina, 1502 01:03:40,904 --> 01:03:42,340 and they all three had stayed off, 1503 01:03:42,383 --> 01:03:45,647 we could've packed our bag, 1504 01:03:45,691 --> 01:03:48,128 opened the door and walked down the same stairway they did, 1505 01:03:48,172 --> 01:03:49,869 because the only way he would've seen us 1506 01:03:49,913 --> 01:03:52,306 is if he'd have gotten on all four 1507 01:03:52,350 --> 01:03:55,875 and put his head under to see us up in first class 1508 01:03:55,919 --> 01:03:57,616 coming out of the cockpit. 1509 01:03:57,659 --> 01:04:00,010 FUENTES: If there is any possibility of leaving Cooper 1510 01:04:00,053 --> 01:04:02,882 all to himself, that goes from a hostage situation. 1511 01:04:02,926 --> 01:04:05,102 Then it becomes what's identified 1512 01:04:05,145 --> 01:04:07,408 as a barricaded subject situation. 1513 01:04:07,452 --> 01:04:10,063 And the approach for that is a whole different situation. 1514 01:04:10,107 --> 01:04:11,586 They can introduce tear gas. 1515 01:04:11,630 --> 01:04:13,153 They can do any number of things. 1516 01:04:13,197 --> 01:04:15,329 JENSEN: We might not even be talking about this 1517 01:04:15,373 --> 01:04:17,114 45 years later. 1518 01:04:17,157 --> 01:04:18,593 D.B. Cooper would've been Dan Cooper. 1519 01:04:18,637 --> 01:04:20,334 He'd be rotting in a jail cell, 1520 01:04:20,378 --> 01:04:24,730 just a footnote in the annals of American crime. 1521 01:04:24,773 --> 01:04:26,558 Andy was monitoring fueling. 1522 01:04:26,601 --> 01:04:28,473 Tina's making the trips up, 1523 01:04:28,516 --> 01:04:29,953 but she was making her last trip out, 1524 01:04:29,996 --> 01:04:32,738 coming back up when Andy told me, 1525 01:04:32,781 --> 01:04:36,916 "Bill, the other two girls are still here." 1526 01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:39,049 And we knew that it was Tina's last trip. 1527 01:04:39,092 --> 01:04:41,660 The co-pilot said, 1528 01:04:41,703 --> 01:04:44,358 "You better get the hell out now." 1529 01:04:44,402 --> 01:04:46,665 So I left without Tina. 1530 01:04:46,708 --> 01:04:51,235 And that's when he decided... to keep her 1531 01:04:51,278 --> 01:04:56,066 because he was getting suspicious at everything. 1532 01:04:56,109 --> 01:04:57,806 RATACZAK: Scotty said, "What do you think? 1533 01:04:57,850 --> 01:04:59,156 "Should we just get out of the airplane 1534 01:04:59,199 --> 01:05:00,897 and leave her back there?" 1535 01:05:00,940 --> 01:05:03,421 And I told him, "I can't, in good faith, 1536 01:05:03,464 --> 01:05:04,813 leave Tina back there alone." 1537 01:05:04,857 --> 01:05:07,947 And he said, "Okay. 1538 01:05:07,991 --> 01:05:09,079 Andy, what do you think?" 1539 01:05:09,122 --> 01:05:10,210 Andy said, "Well, I'm with Bill. 1540 01:05:10,254 --> 01:05:12,212 I want to stay, too." 1541 01:05:12,256 --> 01:05:13,866 Scotty said, "That's good enough for me." 1542 01:05:13,910 --> 01:05:15,520 So we agreed to stay. 1543 01:05:15,563 --> 01:05:19,567 And we took off into the darkness. 1544 01:05:19,611 --> 01:05:22,266 NARRATOR: Flight 305 headed out of Seattle 1545 01:05:22,309 --> 01:05:23,876 bound for Mexico City. 1546 01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:25,356 Per Cooper's demands, 1547 01:05:25,399 --> 01:05:27,793 the 727 would fly at a low altitude 1548 01:05:27,836 --> 01:05:29,534 with the flaps down. 1549 01:05:29,577 --> 01:05:31,449 That meant the plane would burn more fuel, 1550 01:05:31,492 --> 01:05:33,886 and therefore require a refueling stop. 1551 01:05:33,930 --> 01:05:36,062 Reno was the agreed-upon destination. 1552 01:05:36,106 --> 01:05:39,326 RATACZAK: He wanted us to fly at 10,000 feet. 1553 01:05:39,370 --> 01:05:42,329 We were really only about 5,000 feet above the ground, 1554 01:05:42,373 --> 01:05:43,896 because that's where the mountain ranges 1555 01:05:43,940 --> 01:05:45,550 were starting to come up. 1556 01:05:45,593 --> 01:05:47,117 FUENTES: So you're 10,000 feet above sea level, 1557 01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:49,162 but the ground is rising below you. 1558 01:05:49,206 --> 01:05:51,208 RATACZAK: That's exactly right, Tom. 1559 01:05:51,251 --> 01:05:53,558 And we were flying in the overcast, 1560 01:05:53,601 --> 01:05:55,603 and we were getting ice on our wings, 1561 01:05:55,647 --> 01:05:57,605 we were getting ice on the cockpit window. 1562 01:05:57,649 --> 01:06:00,260 And that will destroy the lift on an airplane, 1563 01:06:00,304 --> 01:06:02,262 and all we could think about is that 1564 01:06:02,306 --> 01:06:05,048 we're losing our aerodynamics on that wing. 1565 01:06:05,091 --> 01:06:07,006 JENSEN: They had a very good chance 1566 01:06:07,050 --> 01:06:08,442 of falling out of the sky. 1567 01:06:08,486 --> 01:06:10,879 They were flying so low, just 5,000 feet 1568 01:06:10,923 --> 01:06:13,143 above the ground, and the ice, 1569 01:06:13,186 --> 01:06:15,319 the fog, everything was piling up. 1570 01:06:15,362 --> 01:06:18,452 So who knew if the bomb was real, but this ice was real. 1571 01:06:18,496 --> 01:06:22,021 Now it was an entirely empty cabin 1572 01:06:22,065 --> 01:06:24,110 with just you and him. 1573 01:06:24,154 --> 01:06:28,593 I was gonna stay back there and open the back door. 1574 01:06:28,636 --> 01:06:30,551 NARRATOR: According to Cooper's demands, 1575 01:06:30,595 --> 01:06:34,729 the crew was to lower the 727's aft stairs midflight. 1576 01:06:34,773 --> 01:06:37,341 RATACZAK: But we didn't know whether or not 1577 01:06:37,384 --> 01:06:41,345 that door opening was gonna cause this air to escape. 1578 01:06:41,388 --> 01:06:45,001 We didn't know whether you would be 1579 01:06:45,044 --> 01:06:47,699 -sucked out of the airplane. -[bell dings] 1580 01:06:47,742 --> 01:06:50,267 So I got on the line, and I said, 1581 01:06:50,310 --> 01:06:52,182 "Tina, here's what I want you to do. 1582 01:06:52,225 --> 01:06:54,314 "We have escape ropes that are in the overhead." 1583 01:06:54,358 --> 01:06:55,924 So I told her that, "We'll cut a piece 1584 01:06:55,968 --> 01:06:58,318 "of that rope off, and then I want you to put 1585 01:06:58,362 --> 01:07:00,886 "pillows around your stomach, tie that rope 1586 01:07:00,929 --> 01:07:04,150 around your stomach, and tie it to one of the legs." 1587 01:07:04,194 --> 01:07:06,544 So I told her that we'll have Andy bring a rope back. 1588 01:07:06,587 --> 01:07:08,459 You had that phone, and you squeezed it 1589 01:07:08,502 --> 01:07:10,852 -so that we could hear what was going on. -Yes. 1590 01:07:10,896 --> 01:07:13,725 "No one's coming back here," he said. 1591 01:07:13,768 --> 01:07:16,597 "Okay, in that case, Tina, what I want you to do 1592 01:07:16,641 --> 01:07:18,077 "is open up one of the parachutes 1593 01:07:18,121 --> 01:07:20,471 "and cut some of those nylon cords 1594 01:07:20,514 --> 01:07:23,517 "and wrap them around the chair and make that line 1595 01:07:23,561 --> 01:07:25,650 only as long as to you to the door." 1596 01:07:25,693 --> 01:07:28,783 MUCKLOW: At that point, he had said to me, 1597 01:07:28,827 --> 01:07:30,176 "You can go forward." 1598 01:07:30,220 --> 01:07:32,396 And I didn't ask any questions. 1599 01:07:32,439 --> 01:07:36,269 I just said "thank you" and "good-bye." 1600 01:07:36,313 --> 01:07:40,317 Coming through the cockpit door was just an amazing thing. 1601 01:07:40,360 --> 01:07:43,189 That was the crew, and I guess, 1602 01:07:43,233 --> 01:07:46,540 whether you're thinking real or you're not thinking real, 1603 01:07:46,584 --> 01:07:49,195 there's a sense of, "Okay, now it's okay. 1604 01:07:49,239 --> 01:07:51,110 I'm safe." You know. 1605 01:07:51,154 --> 01:07:53,286 RATACZAK: She did such a marvelous job of being 1606 01:07:53,330 --> 01:07:55,854 the middle cog in the wheel of this, 1607 01:07:55,897 --> 01:07:58,204 uh, unfortunate incident. 1608 01:07:58,248 --> 01:08:00,250 I mean, when she came through that door... 1609 01:08:03,340 --> 01:08:05,342 [crying]: ...it was big-time. 1610 01:08:10,086 --> 01:08:11,565 Yeah. [chuckles] 1611 01:08:11,609 --> 01:08:13,654 That was a long time ago, Bill. 1612 01:08:13,698 --> 01:08:15,874 -[laughs] -I know, but, um... 1613 01:08:15,917 --> 01:08:17,528 a long time... 1614 01:08:17,571 --> 01:08:19,443 My long-term memory isn't quite as bad 1615 01:08:19,486 --> 01:08:21,053 as my short-term memory. 1616 01:08:21,097 --> 01:08:23,751 And I remember the job you did, Tina. 1617 01:08:23,795 --> 01:08:26,580 It was terrific. 1618 01:08:26,624 --> 01:08:29,844 She was the key. 1619 01:08:29,888 --> 01:08:31,803 JENSEN: I mean, hearing Tina Mucklow 1620 01:08:31,846 --> 01:08:33,631 and Bill Rataczak tell the story, 1621 01:08:33,674 --> 01:08:35,372 it turns it from a story 1622 01:08:35,415 --> 01:08:38,026 that you tell amongst your friends, 1623 01:08:38,070 --> 01:08:39,158 that it's a parlor game-- who did this, 1624 01:08:39,202 --> 01:08:40,551 who was D.B. Cooper-- 1625 01:08:40,594 --> 01:08:42,335 and it turns it into a real crime 1626 01:08:42,379 --> 01:08:44,990 with real victims and also real heroes. 1627 01:08:45,033 --> 01:08:47,427 FUENTES: You were aware, 1628 01:08:47,471 --> 01:08:49,125 in your mind, at least, that there's a possibility 1629 01:08:49,168 --> 01:08:51,083 he's going to jump out that back stairway. 1630 01:08:51,127 --> 01:08:52,563 RATACZAK: Yes. 1631 01:08:52,606 --> 01:08:54,434 Well, pretty soon, I got an indication 1632 01:08:54,478 --> 01:08:56,871 on the annunciator panel that the aft door is open. 1633 01:08:56,915 --> 01:08:59,352 All of a sudden, he's picked up the interphone and he said, 1634 01:08:59,396 --> 01:09:00,745 "They can't get the stairs down." 1635 01:09:00,788 --> 01:09:02,877 I said, "Well, stand by, just a minute." 1636 01:09:02,921 --> 01:09:05,837 So I contacted Paul Soderlind, who was our 1637 01:09:05,880 --> 01:09:08,274 Director of Flight Operations, and he said, "Um, Bill, 1638 01:09:08,318 --> 01:09:11,930 slow the airplane down to the marked bug." 1639 01:09:11,973 --> 01:09:15,151 That's our final approach speed plus five knots. 1640 01:09:15,194 --> 01:09:17,892 So we're about 15 knots above the stall speed. 1641 01:09:17,936 --> 01:09:19,894 Remember the ice building up on the center? 1642 01:09:19,938 --> 01:09:21,505 I was sitting a little bit closer 1643 01:09:21,548 --> 01:09:23,333 to the edge of my seat then, 1644 01:09:23,376 --> 01:09:26,205 and I think all of us were, because we weren't sure, 1645 01:09:26,249 --> 01:09:29,339 we slow this airplane down, now that-that icy condition 1646 01:09:29,382 --> 01:09:32,429 taking away the aerodynamics of that wing, 1647 01:09:32,472 --> 01:09:34,692 now we're coming down to meet it. 1648 01:09:34,735 --> 01:09:38,043 So, uh, we slowed it down, and so I got back on the P.A., 1649 01:09:38,086 --> 01:09:40,785 and I said "All right, we've slowed the airplane down. 1650 01:09:40,828 --> 01:09:42,134 "You should be able to open the door now." 1651 01:09:42,178 --> 01:09:44,092 And that's the last we heard of him. 1652 01:09:44,136 --> 01:09:45,485 [alarm beeping] 1653 01:09:45,529 --> 01:09:48,053 We felt this bump in the cabin causing 1654 01:09:48,096 --> 01:09:51,056 increased pressure in our ears, and we also saw the indication 1655 01:09:51,099 --> 01:09:53,928 on the engineer's panel. 1656 01:09:53,972 --> 01:09:56,279 NARRATOR: Weeks later, Northwest flight operations 1657 01:09:56,322 --> 01:09:58,324 would conduct tests that confirm that 1658 01:09:58,368 --> 01:10:01,284 when the hijacker jumped, it caused the stairs to rebound, 1659 01:10:01,327 --> 01:10:03,111 much like a diving board, 1660 01:10:03,155 --> 01:10:06,376 sending a pressure wave through the plane. 1661 01:10:06,419 --> 01:10:08,552 RATACZAK: I called the air traffic control, 1662 01:10:08,595 --> 01:10:10,989 and I said, "You might want to mark this down. 1663 01:10:11,032 --> 01:10:13,209 I think our friend just took leave of us." 1664 01:10:13,252 --> 01:10:17,169 Now, we think that he has left the airplane, 1665 01:10:17,213 --> 01:10:19,127 but we don't know for certain. 1666 01:10:19,171 --> 01:10:22,043 We were told that there were going to be FBI agents, 1667 01:10:22,087 --> 01:10:25,133 uh, county deputies, sheriffs, local police, 1668 01:10:25,177 --> 01:10:27,005 they were gonna be all over the airport. 1669 01:10:29,181 --> 01:10:32,924 MUCKLOW: You know, I was one of the first ones off, and, um, 1670 01:10:32,967 --> 01:10:35,796 you know, in training, we had always been taught 1671 01:10:35,840 --> 01:10:37,407 if you're ever in an emergency procedure, 1672 01:10:37,450 --> 01:10:40,148 you stand a safe distance away from the airplane, 1673 01:10:40,192 --> 01:10:42,020 but in a place where people can see you. 1674 01:10:42,063 --> 01:10:44,718 So, you know, the obvious thing 1675 01:10:44,762 --> 01:10:46,633 is to go to one of the runway lights. 1676 01:10:46,677 --> 01:10:48,940 So I remember one of the cars pulled up 1677 01:10:48,983 --> 01:10:50,811 and said, "Who are you?" 1678 01:10:50,855 --> 01:10:52,335 And I said, "Well, I'm one of the crew." 1679 01:10:52,378 --> 01:10:54,989 -[laughter] -And we were laughing, 1680 01:10:55,033 --> 01:10:57,644 but after I got in the car is when I broke down. 1681 01:10:57,688 --> 01:11:01,561 [sighs] And I just sobbed for a couple minutes. 1682 01:11:01,605 --> 01:11:05,086 And I think Bill said, "It's okay. It's over now." 1683 01:11:05,130 --> 01:11:08,089 So, you haven't done, uh, 1684 01:11:08,133 --> 01:11:11,310 interviews in decades, but in your personal life, 1685 01:11:11,354 --> 01:11:13,138 do you think about it often? 1686 01:11:13,181 --> 01:11:14,618 MUCKLOW: I couldn't tell you 1687 01:11:14,661 --> 01:11:18,491 the number of letters and information and mail 1688 01:11:18,535 --> 01:11:21,451 and telephone calls and what have you 1689 01:11:21,494 --> 01:11:23,279 that I've gotten. 1690 01:11:23,322 --> 01:11:27,239 People have felt that I was trying to escape it, 1691 01:11:27,283 --> 01:11:29,894 or that I wasn't able to handle it, 1692 01:11:29,937 --> 01:11:33,506 or that I was very fragile. 1693 01:11:33,550 --> 01:11:37,423 I think I'm just pretty normal. 1694 01:11:37,467 --> 01:11:40,861 FUENTES: Tina came in here and very calmly and coolly 1695 01:11:40,905 --> 01:11:44,691 explained what she did that day and what she's done since. 1696 01:11:44,735 --> 01:11:47,738 And I found her to be totally believable, 1697 01:11:47,781 --> 01:11:51,481 very articulate, very sane, very stable, 1698 01:11:51,524 --> 01:11:53,091 and a great witness. 1699 01:11:53,134 --> 01:11:54,527 MUCKLOW: I think the thing has been 1700 01:11:54,571 --> 01:11:57,008 when I've been pressured or almost felt 1701 01:11:57,051 --> 01:12:00,054 stalked sometimes by individuals 1702 01:12:00,098 --> 01:12:03,319 who just didn't seem to understand no, 1703 01:12:03,362 --> 01:12:06,844 um, I've kind of wanted to say to them, 1704 01:12:06,887 --> 01:12:08,976 you know, "Get a life." 1705 01:12:09,020 --> 01:12:10,413 [chuckles]: You know? 1706 01:12:10,456 --> 01:12:12,676 This is 40-some years ago. 1707 01:12:12,719 --> 01:12:14,808 NARRATOR: Once Bill and Tina finished telling 1708 01:12:14,852 --> 01:12:17,637 their story of the night of the hijacking, 1709 01:12:17,681 --> 01:12:19,465 a story they have not told in decades, 1710 01:12:19,509 --> 01:12:22,468 Fuentes and Jensen have one more question-- 1711 01:12:22,512 --> 01:12:25,602 one that may or may not support Tom Colbert's theory 1712 01:12:25,645 --> 01:12:28,561 that one-time suspect Robert Rackstraw 1713 01:12:28,605 --> 01:12:31,390 could be D.B. Cooper. 1714 01:12:31,434 --> 01:12:33,174 JENSEN: Have you ever seen this guy, this picture? 1715 01:12:33,218 --> 01:12:35,002 Or does he look like this could've been 1716 01:12:35,046 --> 01:12:37,353 the guy that you were sitting next to? 1717 01:12:42,488 --> 01:12:44,490 FUENTES: Hey, guys. 1718 01:12:44,534 --> 01:12:47,101 NARRATOR: Former FBI Assistant Director Tom Fuentes 1719 01:12:47,145 --> 01:12:50,104 and crime writer Billy Jensen are back in Los Angeles... 1720 01:12:50,148 --> 01:12:51,802 -Hi, Tom. -Good seeing you. 1721 01:12:51,845 --> 01:12:54,021 -Jim, good to see you. -Tom, good to see you. 1722 01:12:54,065 --> 01:12:56,110 -I hope. -NARRATOR: ...to share their news 1723 01:12:56,154 --> 01:12:58,286 from the FBI and to tell journalists 1724 01:12:58,330 --> 01:13:00,680 Tom Colbert and Jim Forbes 1725 01:13:00,724 --> 01:13:02,421 Tina Mucklow's verdict on the picture 1726 01:13:02,465 --> 01:13:05,250 of the man they believe is D.B. Cooper. 1727 01:13:05,293 --> 01:13:07,121 FUENTES: Well, we're here to, uh, 1728 01:13:07,165 --> 01:13:10,298 bring you up to date on some of the latest work that we've done, 1729 01:13:10,342 --> 01:13:13,127 uh, in this case and the investigation, 1730 01:13:13,171 --> 01:13:15,521 and particularly a couple of things 1731 01:13:15,565 --> 01:13:17,654 that we learned, uh, earlier this week 1732 01:13:17,697 --> 01:13:19,482 from the FBI in Seattle. 1733 01:13:19,525 --> 01:13:23,486 The FBI is transitioning the case right now, 1734 01:13:23,529 --> 01:13:26,010 and they were in the process of packing up the boxes 1735 01:13:26,053 --> 01:13:28,926 and the evidence to be shipped back to Washington. 1736 01:13:28,969 --> 01:13:30,580 So "transition" means kaput? 1737 01:13:30,623 --> 01:13:32,538 "Transition" means that the case will be closed. 1738 01:13:32,582 --> 01:13:34,540 Which will open the files? 1739 01:13:34,584 --> 01:13:37,456 There's a variety of rules that require them 1740 01:13:37,500 --> 01:13:41,068 to still protect large portions of the investigation. 1741 01:13:41,112 --> 01:13:42,853 However, they gave me, 1742 01:13:42,896 --> 01:13:44,550 you know, as they referred to it, 1743 01:13:44,594 --> 01:13:47,118 unprecedented access to information 1744 01:13:47,161 --> 01:13:50,426 about the investigation, and, um, 1745 01:13:50,469 --> 01:13:52,689 basically with the understanding that I would not say 1746 01:13:52,732 --> 01:13:56,606 what it specifically was, but enough to tell me, um, 1747 01:13:56,649 --> 01:13:59,130 how diligent the case was investigated 1748 01:13:59,173 --> 01:14:00,305 going back to day one. 1749 01:14:00,348 --> 01:14:01,872 Now, we talked to, uh, 1750 01:14:01,915 --> 01:14:04,048 Curtis Eng, the case agent that you met with 1751 01:14:04,091 --> 01:14:05,745 when you went up there, 1752 01:14:05,789 --> 01:14:08,618 and Curtis remembers the meeting with you very well. 1753 01:14:08,661 --> 01:14:10,402 JENSEN: Do you remember meeting Tom Colbert? 1754 01:14:10,446 --> 01:14:12,143 ENG: Yes, he came 1755 01:14:12,186 --> 01:14:15,755 to the Seattle division a couple years back. 1756 01:14:15,799 --> 01:14:19,280 And what was your impression of Colbert and his investigation? 1757 01:14:19,324 --> 01:14:22,109 Although his presentation was thorough, 1758 01:14:22,153 --> 01:14:24,895 and it was detailed, 1759 01:14:24,938 --> 01:14:30,248 it didn't prove that his suspect was Dan Cooper. 1760 01:14:30,291 --> 01:14:33,033 I can't go on nice presentations. 1761 01:14:33,077 --> 01:14:35,035 I have to go by evidence, 1762 01:14:35,079 --> 01:14:39,387 and that presentation didn't give me 1763 01:14:39,431 --> 01:14:41,085 any additional evidence 1764 01:14:41,128 --> 01:14:43,740 that I could use to prosecute the case. 1765 01:14:43,783 --> 01:14:47,352 COLBERT: So, in essence, we have nothing specific 1766 01:14:47,395 --> 01:14:50,790 shooting down any of the 93 pieces of evidence. 1767 01:14:50,834 --> 01:14:52,749 FUENTES: No, that's-- you know, they're not gonna do that. 1768 01:14:52,792 --> 01:14:54,664 They're not gonna go point by point 1769 01:14:54,707 --> 01:14:56,448 and tell you where you're right or where you're wrong, 1770 01:14:56,492 --> 01:14:58,581 or try this or go that direction. 1771 01:14:58,624 --> 01:15:01,497 They already have enough compelling reasons 1772 01:15:01,540 --> 01:15:05,065 to indicate why he's no longer a suspect to them. 1773 01:15:05,109 --> 01:15:06,676 JENSEN: The meeting with the FBI 1774 01:15:06,719 --> 01:15:08,591 wasn't the most compelling thing that we heard. 1775 01:15:08,634 --> 01:15:10,288 We were able to sit down 1776 01:15:10,331 --> 01:15:12,464 with Bill Rataczak and Tina Mucklow. 1777 01:15:14,640 --> 01:15:16,686 Have you ever seen this guy, this picture? 1778 01:15:16,729 --> 01:15:18,252 [Mucklow sighs] 1779 01:15:18,296 --> 01:15:20,690 I've seen so many pictures. 1780 01:15:20,733 --> 01:15:22,561 It would be very hard for me to say, 1781 01:15:22,605 --> 01:15:24,041 "Yes, I've seen it, no, I haven't." 1782 01:15:24,084 --> 01:15:25,608 JENSEN: Do you remember what his name is? 1783 01:15:25,651 --> 01:15:27,261 No. 1784 01:15:27,305 --> 01:15:30,743 But, you know, I... 1785 01:15:30,787 --> 01:15:33,006 JENSEN: Or does he look like this could've been the guy 1786 01:15:33,050 --> 01:15:34,617 that you were sitting next to? 1787 01:15:34,660 --> 01:15:36,662 MUCKLOW: No, I don't think so. 1788 01:15:36,706 --> 01:15:38,403 I don't think so. 1789 01:15:41,275 --> 01:15:43,147 Um... [sighs] 1790 01:15:44,496 --> 01:15:46,585 No. Do you know who he is? 1791 01:15:46,629 --> 01:15:48,413 -JENSEN: Yeah. -FUENTES: Would you be willing 1792 01:15:48,456 --> 01:15:50,415 to look at this short interview 1793 01:15:50,458 --> 01:15:52,373 where he's being talked to by the media 1794 01:15:52,417 --> 01:15:56,029 and just look at the-the gestures that he uses, 1795 01:15:56,073 --> 01:15:58,075 the style of speech, the tone of his voice, 1796 01:15:58,118 --> 01:16:01,252 and just see if any of that seems like 1797 01:16:01,295 --> 01:16:02,732 maybe, possibly, it could be him? 1798 01:16:02,775 --> 01:16:04,124 Sure. 1799 01:16:07,040 --> 01:16:08,868 INTERVIEWER [over computer]: Are you willing to state 1800 01:16:08,912 --> 01:16:11,392 one way or the other whether or not you're D.B. Cooper? 1801 01:16:11,436 --> 01:16:13,656 RACKSTRAW: No, I'm afraid of heights. 1802 01:16:13,699 --> 01:16:15,962 INTERVIEWER: You have, uh... 1803 01:16:16,006 --> 01:16:17,747 parachute training, and, uh, 1804 01:16:17,790 --> 01:16:21,054 as you mentioned yourself, y-your background suggests 1805 01:16:21,098 --> 01:16:24,144 that you could've been D.B. Cooper. 1806 01:16:24,188 --> 01:16:26,146 RACKSTRAW: Could've been. Could've been. 1807 01:16:26,190 --> 01:16:27,626 INTERVIEWER: You don't want to commit yourself 1808 01:16:27,670 --> 01:16:29,628 -one way or the other? -RACKSTRAW: No. 1809 01:16:29,672 --> 01:16:32,718 I, uh, I can't commit myself on something like that, Warren. 1810 01:16:32,762 --> 01:16:34,067 It's, uh, like I say. 1811 01:16:34,111 --> 01:16:36,069 Primarily I'm afraid of heights. 1812 01:16:36,113 --> 01:16:37,375 MUCKLOW: Hmm. 1813 01:16:42,423 --> 01:16:43,903 R [over computer]: You don't want to commit yourself 1814 01:16:43,947 --> 01:16:45,339 -one way or the other? -RACKSTRAW: No, I, uh, 1815 01:16:45,383 --> 01:16:46,732 I can't commit myself on something like that, Warren. 1816 01:16:46,776 --> 01:16:48,342 It's, uh, like I say. 1817 01:16:48,386 --> 01:16:50,257 Primarily I'm afraid of heights. 1818 01:16:50,301 --> 01:16:52,825 NARRATOR: Flight attendant Tina Mucklow is looking at video 1819 01:16:52,869 --> 01:16:56,655 of onetime D.B. Cooper suspect Robert W. Rackstraw-- 1820 01:16:56,699 --> 01:17:00,006 the man Colbert has spent five years 1821 01:17:00,050 --> 01:17:03,096 and thousands of dollars investigating. 1822 01:17:03,140 --> 01:17:05,751 And it's primarily up to the, uh, American people 1823 01:17:05,795 --> 01:17:07,927 someday how that comes out. 1824 01:17:09,102 --> 01:17:12,323 MUCKLOW: Hmm. 1825 01:17:12,366 --> 01:17:14,804 I don't think so. 1826 01:17:14,847 --> 01:17:18,242 FUENTES: Well, thank you for looking at it, and... 1827 01:17:18,285 --> 01:17:20,374 and, uh, refreshing your memory. 1828 01:17:20,418 --> 01:17:21,680 [Fuentes and Mucklow laugh] 1829 01:17:23,813 --> 01:17:26,337 FUENTES: As you could see, she's very articulate, 1830 01:17:26,380 --> 01:17:28,252 had a great memory, 1831 01:17:28,295 --> 01:17:30,515 -and she was like, "No." -FORBES: Well, in all candor, 1832 01:17:30,558 --> 01:17:34,911 uh, you know, I never, ever expected either of them 1833 01:17:34,954 --> 01:17:37,000 to recognize Rackstraw this many years later, 1834 01:17:37,043 --> 01:17:39,524 despite the trauma, 'cause of the glasses, just-- 1835 01:17:39,567 --> 01:17:42,658 but also the fading of memory, uh, not unlike Bill Mitchell. 1836 01:17:42,701 --> 01:17:44,616 -Mm-hmm. -JENSEN: Tom? 1837 01:17:44,660 --> 01:17:46,618 I'd love to hear from the other potential witness 1838 01:17:46,662 --> 01:17:47,967 what she thinks. 1839 01:17:48,011 --> 01:17:49,969 Did the FBI ever approach the other 1840 01:17:50,013 --> 01:17:52,145 stewardess who saw him with his glasses off? 1841 01:17:52,189 --> 01:17:53,930 It was always Tina was the mythical one 1842 01:17:53,973 --> 01:17:55,975 that wasn't answering the questions. 1843 01:17:56,019 --> 01:17:58,238 -And Tina spent the most time. -Most time. 1844 01:17:58,282 --> 01:18:00,545 She spent four to five hours with him, I absolutely agree. 1845 01:18:00,588 --> 01:18:02,025 I absolutely agree. 1846 01:18:02,068 --> 01:18:03,983 There is no possibility of getting a conviction 1847 01:18:04,027 --> 01:18:07,465 when the best witness says, "Not him." 1848 01:18:07,508 --> 01:18:10,598 I am convinced Rackstraw is not Cooper. 1849 01:18:10,642 --> 01:18:12,426 I... I hear you. 1850 01:18:12,470 --> 01:18:14,820 I-I'm weighing what, you know, 1851 01:18:14,864 --> 01:18:17,780 four years of work is and-- for myself, five for Tom. 1852 01:18:17,823 --> 01:18:20,304 I'm weighing what you guys are saying, 1853 01:18:20,347 --> 01:18:23,307 and... my needle just switched. 1854 01:18:23,350 --> 01:18:25,526 You know, what-what's key to me is-is, 1855 01:18:25,570 --> 01:18:27,093 you know, obviously that's a setback 1856 01:18:27,137 --> 01:18:28,834 that she doesn't recognize the video. 1857 01:18:28,878 --> 01:18:30,923 I still think it's him. 1858 01:18:30,967 --> 01:18:35,449 Uh... you know, she's very adamant, and-and that's tough. 1859 01:18:35,493 --> 01:18:37,451 But what else is it gonna take for you to think 1860 01:18:37,495 --> 01:18:39,497 this isn't the guy? 1861 01:18:39,540 --> 01:18:41,891 I want to hear what happens with my 93 pieces of evidence 1862 01:18:41,934 --> 01:18:44,023 with the FBI; that's what I want to hear. 1863 01:18:44,067 --> 01:18:45,982 I want them to look at it and tell me that 1864 01:18:46,025 --> 01:18:48,332 it's all circumstantial and, uh, 1865 01:18:48,375 --> 01:18:51,204 we can't confirm it and it's not worth opening the case. 1866 01:18:51,248 --> 01:18:56,122 Are one of those 93 pieces of evidence money or the parachute? 1867 01:18:56,166 --> 01:18:58,385 No, Billy, we know that's not in there. 1868 01:18:58,429 --> 01:19:00,605 This is circumstantial, but it's-it's... uh, testimony... 1869 01:19:00,648 --> 01:19:02,781 They're not gonna... they're not gonna reopen it. 1870 01:19:02,825 --> 01:19:04,130 -Well, that's what I understand. -They made it clear. 1871 01:19:04,174 --> 01:19:05,653 That's what... well... 1872 01:19:05,697 --> 01:19:07,873 JENSEN: Of the 93 pieces 1873 01:19:07,917 --> 01:19:09,440 of information, there's nothing in here 1874 01:19:09,483 --> 01:19:10,920 that puts him on the plane. 1875 01:19:10,963 --> 01:19:12,443 There's nothing in here 1876 01:19:12,486 --> 01:19:14,837 that even puts him in Portland that day. 1877 01:19:14,880 --> 01:19:17,230 If the FBI is saying, "We're not gonna look at him," 1878 01:19:17,274 --> 01:19:18,884 if the FBI is saying, "We're not gonna look at him 1879 01:19:18,928 --> 01:19:21,669 unless you have hard evidence," why keep going? 1880 01:19:21,713 --> 01:19:25,282 I got a lot of retired federal guys I trust 1881 01:19:25,325 --> 01:19:28,546 who gave me an awful hard time when I said I think I found 1882 01:19:28,589 --> 01:19:30,548 a Coop-- I found a Cooper candidate, 1883 01:19:30,591 --> 01:19:32,768 didn't believe it, and are believers. 1884 01:19:32,811 --> 01:19:35,161 And, uh, that's why I still feel passionate 1885 01:19:35,205 --> 01:19:38,556 about all the circumstantial we have. 1886 01:19:38,599 --> 01:19:42,473 And until the FBI looks at this and says no, 1887 01:19:42,516 --> 01:19:44,562 I'm still a believer. 1888 01:19:44,605 --> 01:19:47,347 The thing about that is, though, Tom and Billy were 1889 01:19:47,391 --> 01:19:49,001 -on that same edge... -Right. 1890 01:19:49,045 --> 01:19:50,524 FORBES: ...but now they have access 1891 01:19:50,568 --> 01:19:52,135 to different information and new information 1892 01:19:52,178 --> 01:19:54,398 that the investigators don't have and we don't have. 1893 01:19:54,441 --> 01:19:56,313 -Yeah, yeah. -So it speaks for itself. 1894 01:19:56,356 --> 01:19:58,271 Well, I'd like to know what it is, you know, that's... 1895 01:19:58,315 --> 01:19:59,446 So would I. 1896 01:19:59,490 --> 01:20:01,840 Odds are, we ain't gonna. 1897 01:20:01,884 --> 01:20:03,581 -FORBES: Guys, thanks a million. -[Colbert laughs, mutters] 1898 01:20:03,624 --> 01:20:05,191 Appreciate it. You did what we asked 1899 01:20:05,235 --> 01:20:06,540 -you to do, you got inside. -Thank you. 1900 01:20:06,584 --> 01:20:08,586 FORBES: Tom has... 1901 01:20:08,629 --> 01:20:12,242 a lot more riding on this than I do, 1902 01:20:12,285 --> 01:20:14,548 because he's so completely invested, 1903 01:20:14,592 --> 01:20:16,420 literally and figuratively. 1904 01:20:18,204 --> 01:20:19,553 How you doing? 1905 01:20:19,597 --> 01:20:21,773 I'm doing fine, I'm doing fine. 1906 01:20:21,817 --> 01:20:24,297 You know, that's too bad about Tina, but, uh... 1907 01:20:24,341 --> 01:20:25,777 Too bad in what way? 1908 01:20:25,821 --> 01:20:28,040 Well-- What way? [chuckles] 1909 01:20:28,084 --> 01:20:30,434 We all wish she had recognized him, 1910 01:20:30,477 --> 01:20:32,958 but, uh, you know, that's-that's the... 1911 01:20:33,002 --> 01:20:35,308 If it was him, though, Tom, if it was him. 1912 01:20:35,352 --> 01:20:38,007 JENSEN: I don't know that Tom could ever 1913 01:20:38,050 --> 01:20:40,661 solve the D.B. Cooper case because he is so deep 1914 01:20:40,705 --> 01:20:42,620 into that rabbit hole with Rackstraw. 1915 01:20:42,663 --> 01:20:44,622 I don't consider myself obsessed. 1916 01:20:44,665 --> 01:20:46,885 I really don't. 1917 01:20:46,929 --> 01:20:51,020 I believe Tina believes what she believes, 1918 01:20:51,063 --> 01:20:54,588 just like Billy Mitchell believes what he believes, 1919 01:20:54,632 --> 01:20:56,590 but I think they were both very, very honest 1920 01:20:56,634 --> 01:20:58,157 on what 40 years does to them. 1921 01:20:58,201 --> 01:21:00,333 I hear you. 1922 01:21:00,377 --> 01:21:03,293 But I think, most likely, he's not D.B. Cooper. 1923 01:21:03,336 --> 01:21:04,816 You truly don't think it's him? 1924 01:21:04,860 --> 01:21:06,470 No, no. 1925 01:21:06,513 --> 01:21:08,646 There's a time when reality kicks in. 1926 01:21:08,689 --> 01:21:10,822 We don't bring them in to investigate 1927 01:21:10,866 --> 01:21:12,519 to then ignore what they have to say. 1928 01:21:12,563 --> 01:21:14,565 FORBES: It won't be easy for me 1929 01:21:14,608 --> 01:21:16,654 to walk away whatsoever. 1930 01:21:16,697 --> 01:21:19,962 I think it'll be devastating for Tom to have to walk away. 1931 01:21:25,706 --> 01:21:28,884 Hi, Bob. It's Billy Jensen, uh, calling again. 1932 01:21:28,927 --> 01:21:31,364 I'd still love to hear your side of the story 1933 01:21:31,408 --> 01:21:33,889 about what went down with Colbert and Forbes. 1934 01:21:33,932 --> 01:21:36,326 NARRATOR: After several phone and text conversations, 1935 01:21:36,369 --> 01:21:38,894 and a protracted negotiation, 1936 01:21:38,937 --> 01:21:42,332 Robert Rackstraw declined the opportunity to tell his story, 1937 01:21:42,375 --> 01:21:44,943 give his version of events during the confrontation 1938 01:21:44,987 --> 01:21:47,424 with Jim Forbes and Tom Colbert, 1939 01:21:47,467 --> 01:21:50,340 or to describe his experience in 1979, 1940 01:21:50,383 --> 01:21:52,864 when, for a brief time, he was the prime suspect 1941 01:21:52,908 --> 01:21:55,214 in the D.B. Cooper investigation. 1942 01:21:55,258 --> 01:21:57,608 INTERVIEWER: Are you willing to state, one way or the other, 1943 01:21:57,651 --> 01:21:59,653 whether or not you're D.B. Cooper? 1944 01:21:59,697 --> 01:22:03,092 Could have been. Could have been. 1945 01:22:03,135 --> 01:22:06,443 All right, let's, uh, let's take an inventory of the items 1946 01:22:06,486 --> 01:22:08,401 that we're gonna send back to headquarters. 1947 01:22:08,445 --> 01:22:12,188 NARRATOR: There have always been two D.B. Cooper cases. 1948 01:22:12,231 --> 01:22:15,495 One of them is officially being closed. 1949 01:22:15,539 --> 01:22:19,717 First item I have is the 1-B 20, 1950 01:22:19,760 --> 01:22:24,374 the currency that was found in 1980. 1951 01:22:24,417 --> 01:22:27,725 -[camera clicks] -MAN: Yup, got it, 1-B 20. 1952 01:22:27,768 --> 01:22:30,336 NARRATOR: For the past 45 years, one investigation 1953 01:22:30,380 --> 01:22:32,817 lived in this secure basement file room 1954 01:22:32,860 --> 01:22:35,559 of the Seattle division of the FBI. 1955 01:22:35,602 --> 01:22:39,041 It contains the few pieces of physical evidence 1956 01:22:39,084 --> 01:22:41,130 collected in the aftermath of the skyjacking 1957 01:22:41,173 --> 01:22:43,697 of Northwest Flight 305, 1958 01:22:43,741 --> 01:22:46,004 and the thousands of interviews 1959 01:22:46,048 --> 01:22:50,400 that the FBI conducted in the months and years that followed. 1960 01:22:50,443 --> 01:22:53,533 This is 1-B 7. This is the black necktie 1961 01:22:53,577 --> 01:22:55,361 with the attached tie clip. 1962 01:22:55,405 --> 01:22:56,884 MONTOYA: During the course of the 45-year, 1963 01:22:56,928 --> 01:22:59,844 what we call Norjak investigation, 1964 01:22:59,887 --> 01:23:02,151 the FBI exhaustively reviewed all credible leads, 1965 01:23:02,194 --> 01:23:05,937 utilized multiple field offices to conduct searches, 1966 01:23:05,981 --> 01:23:08,592 collected all available evidence, 1967 01:23:08,635 --> 01:23:10,898 interviewed all identified witnesses. 1968 01:23:10,942 --> 01:23:13,162 So there's the original ticket. 1969 01:23:13,205 --> 01:23:16,426 MONTOYA: Over the years, the FBI has applied numerous 1970 01:23:16,469 --> 01:23:18,863 new d innovative investigative techniques, 1971 01:23:18,906 --> 01:23:22,214 as well as examined countless items at the FBI laboratory. 1972 01:23:22,258 --> 01:23:25,130 Evidence obtained during the course of the investigation 1973 01:23:25,174 --> 01:23:27,828 will now be preserved for historical purposes 1974 01:23:27,872 --> 01:23:29,787 at FBI headquarters in Washington D.C. 1975 01:23:29,830 --> 01:23:30,918 PHOTOGRAPHER: Thank you. 1976 01:23:30,962 --> 01:23:33,573 MAN: Green sheet, 1-B five. 1977 01:23:33,617 --> 01:23:35,445 The salmon pink chest parachute. 1978 01:23:35,488 --> 01:23:36,576 PHOTOGRAPHER: And then if you guys 1979 01:23:36,620 --> 01:23:38,013 could hold it up for me, please. 1980 01:23:40,711 --> 01:23:43,192 ENG: You know, we-we can't solve all the cases. 1981 01:23:43,235 --> 01:23:44,715 We try our best. 1982 01:23:44,758 --> 01:23:46,282 We've tried for 45 years. 1983 01:23:46,325 --> 01:23:48,066 Do a quick inventory of 1984 01:23:48,110 --> 01:23:51,026 the original notes taken by Florence Schaffner 1985 01:23:51,069 --> 01:23:53,463 during the actual hijacking. 1986 01:23:53,506 --> 01:23:55,813 MAN: So she took these in-flight. 1987 01:23:55,856 --> 01:23:57,684 -So she's a flight attendant? -Mm-hmm. 1988 01:23:57,728 --> 01:23:58,990 ENG: In this situation, 1989 01:23:59,034 --> 01:24:00,035 we can't solve it. 1990 01:24:00,078 --> 01:24:01,862 For the FBI, 1991 01:24:01,906 --> 01:24:04,561 it's not the conclusion that we wanted, 1992 01:24:04,604 --> 01:24:07,955 but it is the conclusion that we're presented with. 1993 01:24:07,999 --> 01:24:11,089 For us, as the investigating agency, 1994 01:24:11,133 --> 01:24:13,091 it's time to move on. 1995 01:24:16,399 --> 01:24:18,836 NARRATOR: The other Cooper case is an American mystery. 1996 01:24:18,879 --> 01:24:21,578 One that captivated the imagination of the nation 1997 01:24:21,621 --> 01:24:25,799 and will continue to do so for generations to come. 1998 01:24:25,843 --> 01:24:27,497 It began when the press misidentified 1999 01:24:27,540 --> 01:24:31,936 passenger Dan Cooper as skyjacker D.B. Cooper. 2000 01:24:31,979 --> 01:24:33,981 A phantom, he was given a face 2001 01:24:34,025 --> 01:24:36,549 when this iconic sketch was released to the nation. 2002 01:24:36,593 --> 01:24:39,987 And as the decades have passed, the myth of who he was 2003 01:24:40,031 --> 01:24:42,947 and how he got away with it has only grown. 2004 01:24:42,990 --> 01:24:45,123 You know, the D.B. Cooper case isn't over. 2005 01:24:45,167 --> 01:24:46,777 We're just going to the next chapter. 2006 01:24:46,820 --> 01:24:48,779 NARRATOR: New and old suspects 2007 01:24:48,822 --> 01:24:52,913 continue to appear and reappear. 2008 01:24:52,957 --> 01:24:54,959 CARR: It's such a great mystery, you know, and you-- 2009 01:24:55,002 --> 01:24:57,135 we-we've got almost the whole book written 2010 01:24:57,179 --> 01:24:58,789 except the last chapter. 2011 01:24:58,832 --> 01:25:00,138 And I'm just like everybody else, you know. 2012 01:25:00,182 --> 01:25:01,531 They get sucked into it, 2013 01:25:01,574 --> 01:25:03,315 and I want to know how it ends, you know. 2014 01:25:03,359 --> 01:25:04,882 I was hoping that I could write 2015 01:25:04,925 --> 01:25:06,927 that last chapter, and maybe we still can. 2016 01:25:06,971 --> 01:25:09,930 There's gonna be a wave of information coming in 2017 01:25:09,974 --> 01:25:15,371 from people because of-of what they see on their screens. 2018 01:25:15,414 --> 01:25:17,199 You know, the guy's probably dead at this point, anyway, 2019 01:25:17,242 --> 01:25:18,678 so even if you did solve the case, 2020 01:25:18,722 --> 01:25:20,376 would it really get you anywhere? 2021 01:25:20,419 --> 01:25:22,160 Except saying you solved the only skyjacking 2022 01:25:22,204 --> 01:25:24,554 in U.S. history that's unsolved. 2023 01:25:24,597 --> 01:25:27,383 Yeah, we don't have a trophy to hold up on the dock and say, 2024 01:25:27,426 --> 01:25:29,167 "Look what we caught. We got D.B. Cooper." 2025 01:25:29,211 --> 01:25:30,212 We don't have that. 2026 01:25:30,255 --> 01:25:32,170 The FBI doesn't have that. 2027 01:25:32,214 --> 01:25:34,651 But I think we've taken it as far as we can take it, 2028 01:25:34,694 --> 01:25:36,740 and I'm ready that we should close the case. 2029 01:25:36,783 --> 01:25:39,569 But still fascinated by everything, 2030 01:25:39,612 --> 01:25:41,310 still ready to reopen it in a heartbeat 2031 01:25:41,353 --> 01:25:42,485 if something new comes up. 2032 01:25:46,271 --> 01:25:48,186 FORBES: I have no reason to push forward 2033 01:25:48,230 --> 01:25:50,145 with Bob Rackstraw right now. 2034 01:25:50,188 --> 01:25:52,277 We've all gone down rabbit holes in our careers. 2035 01:25:52,321 --> 01:25:54,758 We've all followed leads that don't pan out. 2036 01:25:54,801 --> 01:25:58,805 My only disappointment is that the end of this journey 2037 01:25:58,849 --> 01:26:02,200 isn't revealing the truth, because it's still unknown. 2038 01:26:04,289 --> 01:26:05,856 COLBERT: I'm not gonna do a hypothetical 2039 01:26:05,899 --> 01:26:07,553 on five years of work and say, 2040 01:26:07,597 --> 01:26:09,686 "What if you got an innocent man here?" 2041 01:26:09,729 --> 01:26:12,950 I am not gonna talk about what if I'm wrong, 2042 01:26:12,993 --> 01:26:15,561 specifically, how will I handle it. 2043 01:26:15,605 --> 01:26:19,217 Look, I did the best I could based on the evidence. 2044 01:26:19,261 --> 01:26:22,307 I'm at a place where I truly still feel it could be him. 2045 01:26:22,351 --> 01:26:23,221 INTERVIEWER: You don't want to commit yourself 2046 01:26:23,265 --> 01:26:24,962 -one way or the other? -No. 2047 01:26:25,005 --> 01:26:27,486 I, uh, I can't commit myself on something like that, Warren. 2048 01:26:27,530 --> 01:26:30,315 It's, uh, like I say. Primarily I'm afraid of heights. 2049 01:26:30,359 --> 01:26:32,578 And, uh, there's a matter there, too. 2050 01:26:32,622 --> 01:26:35,625 You-you say, well, with a story like that, 2051 01:26:35,668 --> 01:26:38,018 should it be fiction or should it be fact? 2052 01:26:38,062 --> 01:26:40,847 And it's primarily up to the, uh, American people, 2053 01:26:40,891 --> 01:26:42,458 uh, someday how that comes out. 2054 01:26:42,501 --> 01:26:44,286 Good-bye, evidence. 2055 01:26:46,244 --> 01:26:47,941 JENSEN: Despite the efforts of the most powerful 2056 01:26:47,985 --> 01:26:50,422 investigative agency the world has ever seen, 2057 01:26:50,466 --> 01:26:52,903 along with thousands of amateur detectives, 2058 01:26:52,946 --> 01:26:55,862 it looks like this case will never be solved. 2059 01:26:57,603 --> 01:27:00,084 There's very few crimes that are like that, 2060 01:27:00,127 --> 01:27:02,260 and it's amazing. 2061 01:27:02,304 --> 01:27:05,829 This guy, for all intents and purposes, got away with it. 2062 01:27:05,872 --> 01:27:08,353 We have no idea who he was. 2063 01:27:08,397 --> 01:27:11,356 We have no idea if he lived or died. 2064 01:27:11,400 --> 01:27:13,837 And it looks like we're never gonna know. 164545

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