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NARRATOR: Previously on
D.B. Cooper: Case Closed?...
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When he got on a plane
in Portland, Oregon, last night,
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he was just another passenger
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who gave his name
as D.A. Cooper.
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NARRATOR: It is one
of the most audacious crimes
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in American history.
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CRONKITE: The description
on one wire service:
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master criminal.
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NARRATOR:
Thanksgiving Eve, 1971.
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A man in a suit and tie
and armed with a bomb
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skyjacks a 727,
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gets $200,000 in ransom,
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and parachutes into the night
somewhere between Seattle
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-and Reno. -JENSEN: This guy
was on our radar.
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He was part of our lives
for five hours.
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And we're still talking
about him today.
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NARRATOR:
For over four decades,
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there have been thousands
of leads and suspects,
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but zero arrests.
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KAYE:
In 40 years,
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they've never come up
with a body.
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Well, he either got away
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or else he sure made a big hole
in the ground up there.
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We, as skydivers, knew that was
a very survivable jump.
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NARRATOR: Now, two journalists,
Tom Colbert and Jim Forbes,
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are revealing the details
of a theory
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Colbert has spent
thousands of dollars
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of his own money building.
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COLBERT: We have now 36 members
on a cold case team.
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It's like running your own
police department.
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NARRATOR: Colbert and Forbes
believe they found D.B. Cooper,
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-Perfect.
-and he's alive.
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Tom believes to his core
that he's got D.B. Cooper.
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COLBERT: I'm not wrong.
This is him.
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I actually took it
to the FBI already,
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in 2012, when we had
33 pieces of evidence.
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But they said
they couldn't get involved.
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They had other priorities.
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NARRATOR: Now the men say
they have 93 pieces
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of circumstantial evidence,
and that they want
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to go back to the FBI.
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Okay, convince us.
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NARRATOR:
So History has brought in
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former FBI Assistant Director
Tom Fuentes
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and crime journalist
Billy Jensen
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to pressure test
their Colbert-Forbes theory.
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FUENTES: If you form a theory
in an investigation too early,
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then you subconsciously
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are trying to prove
yourself correct.
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NARRATOR: On day one
of their presentation,
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Colbert and Forbes revealed
the name of the man
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at the center of their theory.
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Robert Wesley Rackstraw.
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NEWSMAN: Your background
suggests that you
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could've been D.B. Cooper.
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Could've been. Could've been.
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NARRATOR:
A one-time suspect
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in the FBI's investigation
of the Cooper case,
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Rackstraw had
extensive military experience
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during the Vietnam War.
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RAY: He, uh, went
to infantry jump school,
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demolition school,
Special Forces Ops,
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survival skills, Psy Ops.
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REPORTER:
Some people say it adds up.
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Oh, certainly.
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Rackstraw was forced to resign
his commission
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because he had falsified
his background.
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To us, that was the motive.
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In addition to
his military records, Don pulled
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a photo taken 14 months
before the hijacking.
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We do not know if these photos
were pulled by the FBI
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when he was investigated
in the '70s.
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JENSEN: They have
a specific suspect in mind,
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and this could be just
one giant rabbit hole
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that these two gentlemen
have gone down.
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NARRATOR: Tonight, the rest
of the Colbert-Forbes theory
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-is revealed...
-FORBES: Here's an element.
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It is so far-fetched,
it-it's crazy,
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and it's the biggest leap
of faith,
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but if we can bring this home,
then we've got a hell of a case.
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NARRATOR:
...and interrogated.
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Are one of those 93 pieces
of evidence
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money or the parachute?
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NARRATOR: Plus, they finally
face the man they believe
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is D.B. Cooper.
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Bob, it's Jim Forbes.
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I've got some easy questions.
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NARRATOR:
Then, a key witness
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who hasn't spoken in 45 years
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agrees to one final interview.
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JENSEN: Have you ever seen
this guy's picture?
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Or does he look like
this could've been
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the guy that
you were sitting next to?
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NARRATOR: And the FBI
sits down to talk.
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We're about to make
a transition--
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an official transition--
in the case.
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NARRATOR:
And the D.B. Cooper case,
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the only unsolved skyjacking
in American history,
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takes a surprising turn.
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So, during the course of
our investigation, we sit down
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with the half-sister of
Robert Rackstraw, Linda LoDuca.
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We didn't know the extent
at the time--
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we did know she was ill,
but we didn't know how gravely,
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and, in fact, she passed away
only weeks later.
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It's the only interview
she ever gave.
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She filled in the timeframe
of when he got in trouble,
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and that was in the late '70s,
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when the FBI
first approached her.
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LODUCA: When the FBI asked me,
did I know
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where Bob was
Thanksgiving Day, 1971?
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[chuckles] I said,
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"Well, you know,
I really don't."
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And, you know, "Why?"
And he told me,
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you know,
did I know about D.B. Cooper?
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So that was the first reference
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to Bob and D.B. Cooper
that I had heard.
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Does the FBI come back
and again question you
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about D.B. Cooper?
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Um, no, they don't.
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Um, not, no.
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I-I don't think I ever
heard from them
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about D.B. Cooper again.
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-FORBES: Ever again?
Just that one contact? -Yeah.
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And did you discuss that
with family or friends?
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-Oh, yeah.
-And what did they think?
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They thought it funny.
I mean, D.B. Cooper was almost
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a, uh, I won't say idol,
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but people are,
"Hey, he got away with it."
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-He's a folk hero.
-Yeah, a folk hero, exactly.
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"Oh, you think your brother
might be him?"
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You know, that's when, that's
when conversations started,
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could Bob be it?
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Did anybody think
he could be it?
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Um...
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A lot of my friends
didn't know him that well.
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They met him, but they didn't
know him real well.
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But, you know, when I described,
you know, his Army background
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and his capabilities,
hey, yeah.
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That's exactly what you need.
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She also filled us in
on their skydiving uncle,
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Ed Cooper, who very well
may have been
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the inspiration for Dan Cooper.
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FORBES:
Who is Ed Cooper?
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He's our uncle.
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He's married to my mom's sister.
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He was marr...
our uncle by marriage.
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FORBES: Did you know anything
about him being a parachutist?
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LODUCA: Yeah, that's all
he talked about. He loved it.
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-That's all who talked about?
-Uncle Ed.
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With who?
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The family. Us.
As we were sitting there.
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-FORBES: Was Bob there?
-Oh, yeah.
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Uncle Ed,
he was a really nice guy.
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JENSEN:
Okay.
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So that's where
the last name came from.
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Where did the "Dan" come from?
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No idea.
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COLBERT:
No one knows.
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She also, at the time,
thought is was a lark.
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That there was no way
in the world
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that he could've possibly
been D.B. Cooper.
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And when she sat down,
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uh, her opinion changed
dramatically
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as to whether he could
possibly be D.B. Cooper.
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Even though he didn't
let on initially
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as to why he wasn't in the Army,
you did learn he was angry.
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Um, I learned
from the FBI agent, actually.
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He, uh, the one that came to me
and told me,
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was asking me about,
you know, where Bob was.
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And he told me he read, um,
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a letter Bob had sent
to the Army
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after he had been discharged,
and it was an angry letter.
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He was angry in that letter.
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Before, he was gung ho Army.
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Now he wasn't
so gung ho Army anymore.
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Military, government.
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With that in mind,
does it make sense to you
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that a bitter Bob Rackstraw,
booted from the Army,
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five months later,
could've hijacked that plane
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-and posed as D.B. Cooper?
-That would be...
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That would be the reason
I would've thought he did it.
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JENSEN: It's definitely
something that fits,
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that this guy, with all
the training that he was doing,
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it seemed like he wanted to be
a career soldier,
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and they took it
away from him like that.
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FORBES: In a quick reset,
as you recall,
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uh, Rackstraw is booted
from the Army, June 21, 1971.
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We've already established
he clearly had the means.
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We think he had the motive
by being thrown into the street.
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So, the next part of our story
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is gonna take us
to Astoria, Oregon.
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Astoria is only 56 miles
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from what is believed to be
the D.B. Cooper drop zone.
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We believe that Robert Rackstraw
spent months after his discharge
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in the Oregon area.
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We believe he was flying
a small plane,
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scouting the drop zone,
and he assumed
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a false identity.
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So here's an element,
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it is so far-fetched,
it's crazy.
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And it's the biggest
leap of faith, but if we can
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bring this home,
then we got a hell of a case.
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So we discovered
that in the summer of 1971,
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this mysterious man
shows up in Astoria.
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Supposed Swiss baron
by the name of Norman De Winter.
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This is less than a month
after Bob Rackstraw is booted
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from the Army.
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COLBERT:
Several of the people
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that knew Norman De Winter
were told
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that he had a small plane.
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Now, Pete Roscoe,
who grew up in town,
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had lived there his whole life,
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he was 24 on the night
of the hijacking.
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He always felt this character
could be D.B. Cooper.
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ROSCOE:
You know, I remember
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around Thanksgiving of 1971,
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after D.B. Cooper had...
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done his thing aboard the plane,
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I was sitting in a tavern
here in Astoria.
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And I see the sketch on TV,
and I said,
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"That's that guy that was here
this summer.
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That was Norman De Winter."
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Why nobody else thought this guy
was D.B. Cooper, I have no idea.
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It seemed obvious to me.
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But I didn't pursue it.
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I dismissed it in my mind as,
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"You know the FBI's
gonna catch him.
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They don't need my help."
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That never happened,
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but I think I know
where D.B. Cooper was
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before he hijacked the plane,
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and that's always been
a part of this story
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that has sort of been ignored
by the press.
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FORBES: So, when we heard
this theory,
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Tom and I said, "We got to
go up there and investigate."
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And Pete Roscoe introduced us
to a few people
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who said they absolutely
remember Norman De Winter.
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ROSCOE:
There was a guy in Astoria
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-named Norman De Winter.
-That's right. That's right.
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I was the priest, and he came in
and introduced himself to me,
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and he said,
"I'm from Switzerland.
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"And I want to come to Astoria,
uh, a rural community,
243
00:09:49,153 --> 00:09:50,764
"and I'd like to live here
for a while
244
00:09:50,807 --> 00:09:52,287
and get to know the people."
245
00:09:52,330 --> 00:09:54,376
My recollection is
246
00:09:54,419 --> 00:09:56,552
that, uh, he asked to stay
in my apartment.
247
00:09:56,596 --> 00:09:58,075
'Cause he was looking
for a place to live.
248
00:09:58,119 --> 00:09:59,642
I think he stayed
at several people's places.
249
00:09:59,686 --> 00:10:03,124
-MAN: Yeah, yeah.
-It was strange.
250
00:10:03,167 --> 00:10:05,039
SODERBERG:
Mostly what I recall is that
251
00:10:05,082 --> 00:10:08,346
we had quite a bit
of conversation about flying.
252
00:10:08,390 --> 00:10:12,220
And Norman said he had
a private plane.
253
00:10:12,263 --> 00:10:14,526
A number of members
of the community
254
00:10:14,570 --> 00:10:17,529
were invited to fly
free of charge
255
00:10:17,573 --> 00:10:19,880
on a chartered jet
to Switzerland.
256
00:10:19,923 --> 00:10:21,708
SODERBERG:
When we started to talk
257
00:10:21,751 --> 00:10:24,406
about his desire
to charter an aircraft
258
00:10:24,449 --> 00:10:27,061
to take all of us
to Switzerland,
259
00:10:27,104 --> 00:10:30,586
then our friend, who, um,
was an airline employee,
260
00:10:30,630 --> 00:10:33,676
offered to check
with her company to see
261
00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:37,680
if this could be arranged,
and then,
262
00:10:37,724 --> 00:10:41,249
the airline's executives
explained
263
00:10:41,292 --> 00:10:45,209
that there wasn't
a Baron Norman De Winter
264
00:10:45,253 --> 00:10:47,559
that... and that they could find
265
00:10:47,603 --> 00:10:49,736
in Switzerland.
266
00:10:49,779 --> 00:10:52,216
ROSCOE: Isn't that about
the time the guy disappeared?
267
00:10:52,260 --> 00:10:54,915
Yes. He disappeared.
268
00:10:54,958 --> 00:10:56,699
And then Norman disappeared.
269
00:10:56,743 --> 00:10:58,658
He was gone, and all of
a sudden, we said,
270
00:10:58,701 --> 00:11:00,137
"We've been took."
271
00:11:00,181 --> 00:11:03,010
And nobody got the free trip
to Switzerland.
272
00:11:05,490 --> 00:11:07,318
-JENSEN: Did they confront him?
-COLBERT: When they got wind
273
00:11:07,362 --> 00:11:11,409
that he wasn't who he was--
Pete explained it to me--
274
00:11:11,453 --> 00:11:13,585
the word got around town
real quick.
275
00:11:13,629 --> 00:11:15,109
And he just disappeared.
276
00:11:15,152 --> 00:11:17,633
COLBERT:
They never caught up with him.
277
00:11:17,677 --> 00:11:20,114
So once again,
Rackstraw booted in June.
278
00:11:20,157 --> 00:11:23,247
De Winter appears
in Astoria in July.
279
00:11:23,291 --> 00:11:25,554
Just about the time
Norman De Winter
280
00:11:25,597 --> 00:11:28,949
disappears from Astoria,
Rackstraw reappears
281
00:11:28,992 --> 00:11:31,125
at the family home
in Valley Springs.
282
00:11:31,168 --> 00:11:33,040
Rackstraw tells his sister Linda
283
00:11:33,083 --> 00:11:35,912
that he wants to take
his two eldest children--
284
00:11:35,956 --> 00:11:38,741
through his first wife Pam--
down to Disneyland.
285
00:11:38,785 --> 00:11:42,092
Bob's sister Linda described
the Disneyland trip.
286
00:11:42,136 --> 00:11:44,704
But he would disappear for
a while, and then he'd pop up.
287
00:11:44,747 --> 00:11:46,749
You know, he'd pop-- when he--
288
00:11:46,793 --> 00:11:48,272
One of the times he'd popped up
was when he asked me,
289
00:11:48,316 --> 00:11:50,840
he said he wanted to take
his kids to Disneyland.
290
00:11:50,884 --> 00:11:53,495
And that was in October of '71?
291
00:11:53,538 --> 00:11:55,018
LODUCA:
I believe it was October.
292
00:11:55,062 --> 00:11:57,325
-Yeah.
-When he was discharged
293
00:11:57,368 --> 00:11:59,109
in July of '71,
294
00:11:59,153 --> 00:12:01,372
did you see him right away,
do you know?
295
00:12:01,416 --> 00:12:03,200
-Do you have any recollection?
-I don't think I did.
296
00:12:03,244 --> 00:12:05,550
I think he disappeared for a
while and then popped up again.
297
00:12:05,594 --> 00:12:08,336
FORBES: When he came home to
take his children to Disneyland,
298
00:12:08,379 --> 00:12:10,207
was that the first time
you recall seeing him?
299
00:12:10,251 --> 00:12:12,166
LODUCA:
It is.
300
00:12:12,209 --> 00:12:14,559
Linda gave us over 50 photos,
301
00:12:14,603 --> 00:12:17,649
and two of them were
pictures at Disneyland.
302
00:12:17,693 --> 00:12:20,174
That is Bob with his daughters.
303
00:12:20,217 --> 00:12:22,132
Linda went with him.
304
00:12:22,176 --> 00:12:23,917
This is the long hair look.
305
00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:28,486
This is, uh, as we said,
late September, early October.
306
00:12:28,530 --> 00:12:30,097
After the Disneyland trip,
307
00:12:30,140 --> 00:12:32,055
Robert Rackstraw
disappears again.
308
00:12:32,099 --> 00:12:34,797
Back up north, who reappears?
309
00:12:34,841 --> 00:12:36,146
Norman De Winter.
310
00:12:36,190 --> 00:12:37,582
These kids that Norman De Winter
311
00:12:37,626 --> 00:12:39,454
had been drinking with
all summer
312
00:12:39,497 --> 00:12:42,849
went off to college in the fall,
unaware that the De Winter fraud
313
00:12:42,892 --> 00:12:44,764
had been discovered.
314
00:12:44,807 --> 00:12:47,027
Norman De Winter joined them
in the college town
315
00:12:47,070 --> 00:12:49,116
of Corvallis, Oregon.
316
00:12:49,159 --> 00:12:52,206
COLBERT: Two college students,
Gayle Downing and Fred Jaross,
317
00:12:52,249 --> 00:12:54,338
met Norman at a party.
318
00:12:54,382 --> 00:12:57,602
That evening, we'd decided
to put on an impromptu
319
00:12:57,646 --> 00:13:01,563
little party, and, knowing
that Thanksgiving was coming,
320
00:13:01,606 --> 00:13:03,739
grabbed the guys before
they were all, sort of,
321
00:13:03,783 --> 00:13:07,438
sky bursting out of there, and,
you know, probably half a dozen
322
00:13:07,482 --> 00:13:10,833
to nine or ten football players
came in and the party went on,
323
00:13:10,877 --> 00:13:13,793
and everybody went home.
324
00:13:13,836 --> 00:13:15,316
Got up the next morning,
325
00:13:15,359 --> 00:13:19,233
and there is this fella
sleeping on the couch.
326
00:13:19,276 --> 00:13:21,801
And no idea who he was
or where he came from,
327
00:13:21,844 --> 00:13:23,933
other than that we figured that
he had come in
328
00:13:23,977 --> 00:13:25,805
with the football guys.
329
00:13:25,848 --> 00:13:30,635
I just saw him as sort of
an eccentric, odd kind of guy.
330
00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:32,420
But back in the early '70s,
I mean,
331
00:13:32,463 --> 00:13:34,291
there was a lot of odd people
floating around,
332
00:13:34,335 --> 00:13:37,599
and this guy just sort of
fit into the bunch.
333
00:13:37,642 --> 00:13:40,297
And so he spent, you know,
the better part
334
00:13:40,341 --> 00:13:42,038
of four or five days with us.
335
00:13:42,082 --> 00:13:43,910
Probably either a Tuesday
or a Wednesday morning,
336
00:13:43,953 --> 00:13:45,650
we got up and Norman was gone.
337
00:13:45,694 --> 00:13:48,088
Sort of disappeared
like he appeared.
338
00:13:48,131 --> 00:13:50,090
So he didn't make it
to Thanksgiving dinner?
339
00:13:50,133 --> 00:13:55,443
No, no, he was, he was gone
probably the morning prior.
340
00:13:55,486 --> 00:13:57,358
Which would have been
a Wednesday.
341
00:13:57,401 --> 00:14:00,143
So he's saying the Friday
before Thanksgiving,
342
00:14:00,187 --> 00:14:02,537
Friday before the eve
of Thanksgiving
343
00:14:02,580 --> 00:14:04,974
when the hijacking occurs,
that that Friday,
344
00:14:05,018 --> 00:14:07,977
he shows up at the party
and then doesn't leave,
345
00:14:08,021 --> 00:14:10,501
and stays on their couch until
Monday or Tuesday
346
00:14:10,545 --> 00:14:12,242
or Wednesday the next week.
347
00:14:12,286 --> 00:14:16,507
The question, was he still
with you on Thanksgiving,
348
00:14:16,551 --> 00:14:19,510
and he said no, it was,
I think, the morning before.
349
00:14:19,554 --> 00:14:23,253
So that's why we have him,
we believe, in Corvallis,
350
00:14:23,297 --> 00:14:28,563
Norman, until November the 23rd,
the day before Thanksgiving.
351
00:14:28,606 --> 00:14:33,916
We know in the afternoon of
Wednesday, November 23rd,
352
00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:37,137
at Portland Airport,
two hours drive away,
353
00:14:37,180 --> 00:14:39,052
Dan Cooper boards Flight 305.
354
00:14:39,095 --> 00:14:40,967
FUENTES: Okay, since that's
the day of the hijacking,
355
00:14:41,010 --> 00:14:44,274
do they say what he was wearing
while he was with them,
356
00:14:44,318 --> 00:14:46,320
or did he have luggage
where the black suit and tie
357
00:14:46,363 --> 00:14:47,930
might have come from?
358
00:14:47,974 --> 00:14:49,497
COLBERT: We don't have
anything on luggage.
359
00:14:49,540 --> 00:14:51,107
We have nothing about
what he brought in.
360
00:14:51,151 --> 00:14:53,327
I mean, he literally came in
for a party.
361
00:14:53,370 --> 00:14:56,069
I'd imagine if he had a suitcase
they would have noticed that.
362
00:14:56,112 --> 00:14:57,897
But he didn't describe himself
as a baron
363
00:14:57,940 --> 00:14:59,550
-or anything like that?
-FORBES: No.
364
00:14:59,594 --> 00:15:02,510
In fact, he didn't say
he was Swiss or a baron.
365
00:15:02,553 --> 00:15:04,599
But he did say his name was
Norman De Winter?
366
00:15:04,642 --> 00:15:05,905
-Yes, they...
-COLBERT: No, Norman.
367
00:15:05,948 --> 00:15:07,123
-Norman.
-Just Norman.
368
00:15:07,167 --> 00:15:08,995
He just said Norman to everyone.
369
00:15:09,038 --> 00:15:11,345
Gayle's memory
of Norman De Winter
370
00:15:11,388 --> 00:15:12,912
is particularly telling,
371
00:15:12,955 --> 00:15:16,132
and she has not forgotten him
to this day.
372
00:15:16,176 --> 00:15:18,787
I was invited to the party.
373
00:15:18,830 --> 00:15:21,094
I didn't really want to go,
but I came.
374
00:15:21,137 --> 00:15:23,226
JAROSS:
I had broken up with Gayle.
375
00:15:23,270 --> 00:15:26,012
DOWNING: When he made
the breakup, I was very upset.
376
00:15:26,055 --> 00:15:30,277
But I met Norm, and he spent
almost an hour visiting with me.
377
00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:34,498
He was just very charming,
very polite, very good listener.
378
00:15:34,542 --> 00:15:37,501
Asked a lot of questions
about me.
379
00:15:37,545 --> 00:15:40,026
Didn't talk about himself
hardly at all.
380
00:15:40,069 --> 00:15:41,853
You know, people come
into your life,
381
00:15:41,897 --> 00:15:43,464
and you'll never forget them.
382
00:15:43,507 --> 00:15:45,161
And it's just
how you interact with them
383
00:15:45,205 --> 00:15:47,207
for one minute or one hour.
384
00:15:47,250 --> 00:15:51,080
And, for me, at 21,
he really was the most charming,
385
00:15:51,124 --> 00:15:53,561
polite person
that I had ever met.
386
00:15:55,780 --> 00:15:57,565
-Including you.
-[both laugh]
387
00:16:00,524 --> 00:16:02,265
You're trying to say
that this guy's gonna pull off
388
00:16:02,309 --> 00:16:05,355
the caper of a lifetime,
and he decides to take on
389
00:16:05,399 --> 00:16:08,184
this flamboyant character
of Norman De Winter,
390
00:16:08,228 --> 00:16:10,491
and is the talk of the town?
391
00:16:10,534 --> 00:16:12,362
Why would anybody do that?
392
00:16:12,406 --> 00:16:14,451
COLBERT: He was trained
in undercover work
393
00:16:14,495 --> 00:16:18,194
with the Green Berets
and in Vietnam.
394
00:16:18,238 --> 00:16:20,022
And being in a character
was one thing
395
00:16:20,066 --> 00:16:21,632
they were trained to do.
396
00:16:21,676 --> 00:16:23,547
That's true,
but when he's in Vietnam,
397
00:16:23,591 --> 00:16:25,027
he's not trying to be
an undercover
398
00:16:25,071 --> 00:16:26,550
Vietnamese rice farmer.
399
00:16:26,594 --> 00:16:28,204
So what he's doing is secret,
400
00:16:28,248 --> 00:16:30,032
and it's undercover
in that sense,
401
00:16:30,076 --> 00:16:32,861
but that's not the same as being
an undercover operative,
402
00:16:32,904 --> 00:16:35,777
where you're embedded
into a town, trying to fit in,
403
00:16:35,820 --> 00:16:39,085
trying to use that as a cover.
404
00:16:39,128 --> 00:16:40,564
FORBES:
Want you to see the people
405
00:16:40,608 --> 00:16:42,827
who remember Norman De Winter,
406
00:16:42,871 --> 00:16:44,525
and you should see their
reaction when we showed them
407
00:16:44,568 --> 00:16:46,570
pictures and video
of Robert Rackstraw.
408
00:16:52,011 --> 00:16:53,795
JENSEN: You're trying to say
that this guy's gonna pull off
409
00:16:53,838 --> 00:16:55,753
the caper of a lifetime,
410
00:16:55,797 --> 00:16:58,234
and he decides to take on
this flamboyant character
411
00:16:58,278 --> 00:17:00,889
of Norman De Winter,
and is the talk of the town?
412
00:17:00,932 --> 00:17:04,545
Why would anybody do that?
413
00:17:04,588 --> 00:17:07,983
I'm saying it's plausible, okay?
But don't take our word for it.
414
00:17:08,027 --> 00:17:10,072
NARRATOR: Newsmen Jim Forbes
and Tom Colbert
415
00:17:10,116 --> 00:17:12,988
are deep into their
presentation of their theory
416
00:17:13,032 --> 00:17:16,296
that onetime D.B. Cooper suspect
Robert Rackstraw
417
00:17:16,339 --> 00:17:18,907
may be the infamous skyjacker.
418
00:17:18,950 --> 00:17:21,475
The men want to present
their case to the FBI.
419
00:17:21,518 --> 00:17:22,954
But first, they have to convince
420
00:17:22,998 --> 00:17:25,957
former FBI Assistant Director
Tom Fuentes
421
00:17:26,001 --> 00:17:28,395
and crime journalist
Billy Jensen.
422
00:17:28,438 --> 00:17:31,615
Among other assertions,
they say Rackstraw posed
423
00:17:31,659 --> 00:17:34,879
as a Swiss baron
named Norman De Winter
424
00:17:34,923 --> 00:17:37,186
in the days leading up
to the Cooper hijacking.
425
00:17:37,230 --> 00:17:40,233
Want you to see the people
who remember Norman De Winter,
426
00:17:40,276 --> 00:17:42,452
and you should see their
reaction when we showed them
427
00:17:42,496 --> 00:17:44,541
pictures and video
of Robert Rackstraw.
428
00:17:48,154 --> 00:17:50,199
FORBES:
So what we're looking at:
429
00:17:50,243 --> 00:17:54,551
a picture taken about 18 months
prior to the hijacking.
430
00:17:54,595 --> 00:17:57,032
-Right there.
-Yeah. Look at that.
431
00:17:57,076 --> 00:17:59,469
FORBES:
That feels familiar to you?
432
00:17:59,513 --> 00:18:01,341
MATTINGLY:
A little bit, yeah.
433
00:18:01,384 --> 00:18:03,604
SODERBERG:
I'm not a hundred percent sure,
434
00:18:03,647 --> 00:18:06,781
but it's a familiar face to me.
435
00:18:06,824 --> 00:18:09,131
My reaction is that's not him.
436
00:18:09,175 --> 00:18:11,046
FORBES:
That's October '71.
437
00:18:11,090 --> 00:18:12,439
The last month and a half.
438
00:18:12,482 --> 00:18:13,527
Prior to the hijacking.
439
00:18:13,570 --> 00:18:15,746
-Okay.
-Wow.
440
00:18:15,790 --> 00:18:17,357
MATTINGLY: Now, I got excited
when I see this picture.
441
00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:19,098
SODERBERG:
Oh.
442
00:18:19,141 --> 00:18:20,621
That's more like it.
443
00:18:20,664 --> 00:18:22,144
DOWNING:
That does look like him.
444
00:18:22,188 --> 00:18:23,276
JAROSS:
Yeah, that would be the guy.
445
00:18:23,319 --> 00:18:25,582
-At least as I remember.
-Yep.
446
00:18:25,626 --> 00:18:28,629
I don't know.
447
00:18:28,672 --> 00:18:30,021
INTERVIEWER: Are you willing
to state, one way or the other,
448
00:18:30,065 --> 00:18:32,285
whether or not
you're D.B. Cooper?
449
00:18:32,328 --> 00:18:34,896
I'm afraid of heights.
450
00:18:34,939 --> 00:18:37,377
His gestures and then his way
of talking there
451
00:18:37,420 --> 00:18:40,815
I would say is very much
what I remember.
452
00:18:40,858 --> 00:18:44,514
The eyes, the way he would close
his eyes and open his eyes,
453
00:18:44,558 --> 00:18:47,256
brought back a memory for me.
454
00:18:47,300 --> 00:18:49,693
The shape of the face
is correct.
455
00:18:49,737 --> 00:18:52,479
And look at those eyes.
Eyes are the same.
456
00:18:52,522 --> 00:18:55,003
Norm had nice eyes.
457
00:18:55,046 --> 00:18:57,136
-Kind of resonates.
-It does.
458
00:18:57,179 --> 00:18:58,963
FORBES: This could have been
the guy who spent
459
00:18:59,007 --> 00:19:00,574
-three nights in your apartment?
-MATTINGLY: Yes.
460
00:19:00,617 --> 00:19:02,663
PALMBERG:
I would be hard put to say
461
00:19:02,706 --> 00:19:07,450
definitely that is the person
we knew as Norman De Winter.
462
00:19:07,494 --> 00:19:12,368
That possibly could be the
person that was here in Astoria.
463
00:19:12,412 --> 00:19:15,154
That really, really looks like
the guy that I remember.
464
00:19:17,721 --> 00:19:20,463
To recap our Norman De Winter,
Robert Rackstraw timeline.
465
00:19:20,507 --> 00:19:22,552
Less than a month
after Robert Rackstraw
466
00:19:22,596 --> 00:19:25,338
is booted from the Army, this
character named Norman De Winter
467
00:19:25,381 --> 00:19:27,383
pops up in Astoria, Oregon.
468
00:19:27,427 --> 00:19:30,560
He's there until late September,
when he suddenly disappears,
469
00:19:30,604 --> 00:19:32,649
never seen in that town again.
470
00:19:32,693 --> 00:19:35,522
Suddenly, Rackstraw pops up
in Northern California,
471
00:19:35,565 --> 00:19:39,047
picking up his sister and
his kids to head to Disneyland.
472
00:19:39,090 --> 00:19:41,745
When the trip's done,
he vanishes.
473
00:19:41,789 --> 00:19:43,094
FORBES:
And then Norman De Winter
474
00:19:43,138 --> 00:19:45,096
pops up in Corvallis, Oregon.
475
00:19:45,140 --> 00:19:48,230
That's only 95 nautical miles
from Portland.
476
00:19:48,274 --> 00:19:51,886
And he's there until the day
before the hijacking.
477
00:19:51,929 --> 00:19:56,064
Never seen or heard from
anywhere again.
478
00:19:56,107 --> 00:19:58,327
Then a third character pops up.
479
00:19:58,371 --> 00:20:00,199
His name is Dan Cooper.
480
00:20:00,242 --> 00:20:03,071
He's getting on a plane
in Portland, heading to Seattle.
481
00:20:03,114 --> 00:20:05,029
Okay, yeah.
482
00:20:05,073 --> 00:20:08,207
I think that
the Astoria story, to me,
483
00:20:08,250 --> 00:20:10,121
in the building blocks
of this case,
484
00:20:10,165 --> 00:20:13,168
it's an interesting parallel,
but...
485
00:20:13,212 --> 00:20:16,215
it doesn't require Rackstraw
to be De Winter
486
00:20:16,258 --> 00:20:18,260
for Rackstraw to be
D.B. Cooper.
487
00:20:18,304 --> 00:20:21,263
JENSEN: You can see the look
on Tom's face, you know.
488
00:20:21,307 --> 00:20:24,788
And I don't want to kill
this guy's dream of having
489
00:20:24,832 --> 00:20:26,442
Rackstraw be
De Winter be Cooper.
490
00:20:26,486 --> 00:20:28,879
But I just don't buy it.
I don't buy it.
491
00:20:28,923 --> 00:20:33,057
I think he was just a con man
that was just going through.
492
00:20:33,101 --> 00:20:34,624
We know that
after the hijacking,
493
00:20:34,668 --> 00:20:38,193
Rackstraw was living
in Northern California.
494
00:20:38,237 --> 00:20:40,891
And we know that, in '73,
he starts working
495
00:20:40,935 --> 00:20:43,503
for a flooring company
out of San Francisco.
496
00:20:43,546 --> 00:20:45,374
It's a job
that takes him everywhere,
497
00:20:45,418 --> 00:20:49,030
and he's working with
Pudgy Hunt and Dick Briggs.
498
00:20:49,073 --> 00:20:52,033
FORBES: These are the guys, back
in the beginning of our story,
499
00:20:52,076 --> 00:20:54,340
that connected Briggs
to the money find.
500
00:20:54,383 --> 00:20:56,342
So you're trying to say
that just two years after
501
00:20:56,385 --> 00:21:00,215
he pulls off the crime
of the century, bags $200,000,
502
00:21:00,259 --> 00:21:02,870
that two years later,
he's breaking his back
503
00:21:02,913 --> 00:21:04,306
laying gym floor?
504
00:21:04,350 --> 00:21:06,265
FORBES:
I'll go with that.
505
00:21:06,308 --> 00:21:09,790
Our theory on motive is that
it had nothing to do with money.
506
00:21:09,833 --> 00:21:13,272
That the money was... secondary.
507
00:21:13,315 --> 00:21:16,710
In our theory, this is still
a "stick it to the man,"
508
00:21:16,753 --> 00:21:19,495
"you did me wrong,
and I'm gonna do you right."
509
00:21:24,892 --> 00:21:26,937
-How you doing? Billy Jensen.
-Jack Immendorf. How are you?
510
00:21:26,981 --> 00:21:28,852
COLBERT: The next part
of my investigation
511
00:21:28,896 --> 00:21:32,769
is where Rackstraw officially
becomes a D.B. Cooper suspect.
512
00:21:32,813 --> 00:21:35,337
Jack Immendorf has been
a private investigator
513
00:21:35,381 --> 00:21:37,078
for over 40 years.
514
00:21:37,121 --> 00:21:39,559
He is a member
of our cold case team,
515
00:21:39,602 --> 00:21:41,212
and he's gonna help tell
the rest of the story.
516
00:21:41,256 --> 00:21:43,867
We learn, in 1977,
that Rackstraw
517
00:21:43,911 --> 00:21:46,217
has been investigated
for check fraud.
518
00:21:46,261 --> 00:21:48,698
Allegedly writing
and cashing checks
519
00:21:48,742 --> 00:21:51,527
from his company he had
with his stepfather.
520
00:21:51,571 --> 00:21:54,225
Eventually, it totaled $75,000,
521
00:21:54,269 --> 00:21:57,228
from three banks
in two counties.
522
00:21:57,272 --> 00:21:58,969
FORBES:
Investigators in two counties,
523
00:21:59,013 --> 00:22:01,537
San Joaquin and Calaveras,
are starting to look at this,
524
00:22:01,581 --> 00:22:05,846
and by December of 1977,
525
00:22:05,889 --> 00:22:10,546
they go to serve a search
warrant at the Rackstraw house.
526
00:22:10,590 --> 00:22:13,984
When police come to arrest him,
he's gone.
527
00:22:14,028 --> 00:22:16,335
They come to arrest him
for check fraud,
528
00:22:16,378 --> 00:22:19,903
and they find out he has
150 pounds of explosives.
529
00:22:19,947 --> 00:22:21,557
But nobody knows where he is.
530
00:22:21,601 --> 00:22:25,344
So the D.A. adds
to the check fraud
531
00:22:25,387 --> 00:22:29,217
a charge of illegal possession
of explosives.
532
00:22:29,260 --> 00:22:31,611
Just about this time
is when Jack starts honing in
533
00:22:31,654 --> 00:22:35,789
a little more
on Rackstraw's whereabouts.
534
00:22:35,832 --> 00:22:39,619
When Bob disappeared,
one of the people we talked to
535
00:22:39,662 --> 00:22:44,319
recalled Bob bragging about
some type of opportunities
536
00:22:44,363 --> 00:22:46,669
with helicopters
in the Middle East,
537
00:22:46,713 --> 00:22:51,413
and it didn't take a scientist
to figure out
538
00:22:51,457 --> 00:22:54,503
the only helicopter operations
in the Middle East
539
00:22:54,547 --> 00:22:59,160
were in Iran, and it was
with Bell Helicopter.
540
00:22:59,203 --> 00:23:00,727
NARRATOR:
In the 1970s,
541
00:23:00,770 --> 00:23:03,817
the Shah of Iran was building
what would become
542
00:23:03,860 --> 00:23:06,515
the third largest
helicopter fleet in the world.
543
00:23:06,559 --> 00:23:08,387
Bell Helicopter was
their primary supplier.
544
00:23:08,430 --> 00:23:10,606
They owned and operated
a factory
545
00:23:10,650 --> 00:23:12,434
where thousands
of American workers
546
00:23:12,478 --> 00:23:15,568
and contractors were employed.
547
00:23:15,611 --> 00:23:17,657
When the Shah was overthrown
by the Islamic Revolution
548
00:23:17,700 --> 00:23:21,748
in 1979,
the Americans were expelled.
549
00:23:21,791 --> 00:23:25,142
FORBES: The FBI went out and got
a felony fugitive warrant
550
00:23:25,186 --> 00:23:26,796
against Rackstraw.
551
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:30,670
Bell forced
Rackstraw out of Tehran,
552
00:23:30,713 --> 00:23:32,672
and his plane had
a stopover in Paris,
553
00:23:32,715 --> 00:23:34,935
and when he stops over,
two FBI agents
554
00:23:34,978 --> 00:23:37,546
board the plane because there's
a warrant for his arrest,
555
00:23:37,590 --> 00:23:39,592
and then, the second
they touch down at JFK,
556
00:23:39,635 --> 00:23:41,463
he's arrested by the FBI.
557
00:23:41,507 --> 00:23:43,770
I've never been able to
wrap my head around the fact
558
00:23:43,813 --> 00:23:46,729
that the FBI got so involved
in bringing him back from Iran
559
00:23:46,773 --> 00:23:48,296
on these petty state charges.
560
00:23:48,339 --> 00:23:50,690
Why would they go to that degree
561
00:23:50,733 --> 00:23:53,606
if they weren't, at the core
of it, really interested in him
562
00:23:53,649 --> 00:23:55,477
as possibly being D.B. Cooper?
563
00:23:55,521 --> 00:23:57,305
The way that normally
would work is,
564
00:23:57,348 --> 00:24:00,221
if the local authorities
bring charges against somebody,
565
00:24:00,264 --> 00:24:02,484
and there's reason
to believe that person
566
00:24:02,528 --> 00:24:04,225
has fled the jurisdiction,
567
00:24:04,268 --> 00:24:07,358
then the local authorities
go to the FBI
568
00:24:07,402 --> 00:24:10,144
and request an unlawful flight
to avoid prosecution warrant,
569
00:24:10,187 --> 00:24:11,972
UFAP warrant.
570
00:24:12,015 --> 00:24:15,366
All of that legal procedure
to get him out of Iran
571
00:24:15,410 --> 00:24:18,065
was based on
the California state charges,
572
00:24:18,108 --> 00:24:20,502
not in any way connected
to Cooper at the time.
573
00:24:20,546 --> 00:24:22,548
FORBES: Right, but aren't those
pretty penny-ante charges
574
00:24:22,591 --> 00:24:25,072
for the FBI to be
going to that extent?
575
00:24:25,115 --> 00:24:26,856
Putting agents
on the plane with him
576
00:24:26,900 --> 00:24:28,858
and flying him
from Paris to JFK,
577
00:24:28,902 --> 00:24:30,860
that would indicate
that they've already got
578
00:24:30,904 --> 00:24:33,341
a little more serious
of an interest in him.
579
00:24:33,384 --> 00:24:34,690
So, yes, I would agree with you,
580
00:24:34,734 --> 00:24:36,649
it does sound like,
at this point,
581
00:24:36,692 --> 00:24:40,043
they're going above and beyond
the normal call of duty
582
00:24:40,087 --> 00:24:42,785
for checks and explosives.
583
00:24:42,829 --> 00:24:44,439
There must be more to this.
584
00:24:44,483 --> 00:24:49,052
-Yeah.
-Right.
585
00:24:49,096 --> 00:24:50,576
FORBES:
Back in, uh,
586
00:24:50,619 --> 00:24:53,796
early '78,
thanks to Jack Immendorf,
587
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,495
State Department,
FBI collaborate,
588
00:24:56,538 --> 00:24:59,062
go to extreme measures,
it seems,
589
00:24:59,106 --> 00:25:02,544
to bring back Rackstraw from
Iran for what are essentially
590
00:25:02,588 --> 00:25:04,067
penny-ante charges
591
00:25:04,111 --> 00:25:05,547
NARRATOR:
Investigative journalists
592
00:25:05,591 --> 00:25:07,984
Tom Colbert and Jim Forbes
are presenting
593
00:25:08,028 --> 00:25:10,813
their theory that onetime
D.B. Cooper suspect,
594
00:25:10,857 --> 00:25:13,947
Robert Rackstraw,
may be the infamous skyjacker.
595
00:25:13,990 --> 00:25:16,427
In the four years
since meeting with the FBI,
596
00:25:16,471 --> 00:25:19,605
Colbert says that he
and his team have nearly tripled
597
00:25:19,648 --> 00:25:21,345
the amount of
circumstantial evidence,
598
00:25:21,389 --> 00:25:23,783
and he's hoping that he will be
able to convince
599
00:25:23,826 --> 00:25:26,655
former FBI Assistant Director
Tom Fuentes
600
00:25:26,699 --> 00:25:30,050
and veteran crime reporter
Billy Jensen
601
00:25:30,093 --> 00:25:32,748
to bring his new findings
back to the FBI.
602
00:25:32,792 --> 00:25:34,968
FORBES: But here's where we're
gonna take one of the most
603
00:25:35,011 --> 00:25:37,536
bizarre twists
of the entire case.
604
00:25:37,579 --> 00:25:39,625
He's going down
to San Joaquin County
605
00:25:39,668 --> 00:25:42,541
to face charges on bank fraud
606
00:25:42,584 --> 00:25:44,673
and illegal explosives.
607
00:25:44,717 --> 00:25:47,502
He's due in court the next day,
608
00:25:47,546 --> 00:25:50,287
so what he does is he goes down
to the airport in Stockton,
609
00:25:50,331 --> 00:25:54,814
leases a plane, puts his sister
on as next of kin
610
00:25:54,857 --> 00:25:56,598
for in case anything happens...
611
00:25:56,642 --> 00:25:58,382
-Let me stop you right there.
-Sure.
612
00:25:58,426 --> 00:26:00,036
He's allowed to lease a plane
while he's out on bail?
613
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,212
-COLBERT: Mm-hmm. -FORBES: Yeah,
he had a pilot's license.
614
00:26:02,256 --> 00:26:03,474
-Yeah, has a pilot's license.
-Hadn't been revoked.
615
00:26:03,518 --> 00:26:04,606
Hasn't been
convicted of anything.
616
00:26:04,650 --> 00:26:06,608
Mm-hmm. Okay.
617
00:26:06,652 --> 00:26:09,959
Jack is driving down the coast,
and you hear a news report.
618
00:26:10,003 --> 00:26:12,396
We're driving back
from San Jose,
619
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,312
listening to the radio,
and all of a sudden,
620
00:26:15,356 --> 00:26:18,577
we hear a bulletin
regarding a plane on fire,
621
00:26:18,620 --> 00:26:20,317
a mayday,
622
00:26:20,361 --> 00:26:23,930
and the pilot indicating
that he may have to ditch.
623
00:26:23,973 --> 00:26:27,760
And then
I was absolutely blown away.
624
00:26:27,803 --> 00:26:30,240
The pilot,
Robert Wesley Rackstraw.
625
00:26:30,284 --> 00:26:32,155
It's like, "Son of a bitch!
626
00:26:32,199 --> 00:26:33,635
He's gonna disappear again."
627
00:26:33,679 --> 00:26:36,290
-[chuckles]
-I couldn't believe it.
628
00:26:36,333 --> 00:26:38,031
Now, did they do
any kind of, uh...
629
00:26:38,074 --> 00:26:40,033
uh, research and recovery
or anything like that?
630
00:26:40,076 --> 00:26:43,036
There was a massive search
in the crash site.
631
00:26:43,079 --> 00:26:45,604
There were five planes,
three Coast Guard ships,
632
00:26:45,647 --> 00:26:47,649
12 miles out
all the way to dusk.
633
00:26:47,693 --> 00:26:50,347
Nothing-- no body, no wreckage.
634
00:26:50,391 --> 00:26:52,001
FORBES:
And absolutely no one,
635
00:26:52,045 --> 00:26:54,569
including Jack, buys it. No one.
636
00:26:54,613 --> 00:26:59,052
Just like that, out of the blue,
bang, he's gone again.
637
00:26:59,095 --> 00:27:03,012
We think he ran because
the FBI was closing in on him
638
00:27:03,056 --> 00:27:05,319
as a Cooper skyjacking suspect.
639
00:27:05,362 --> 00:27:08,409
COLBERT: I truly feel
that the reason he was out
640
00:27:08,452 --> 00:27:12,892
was to set up what happened
along the Columbia River.
641
00:27:12,935 --> 00:27:16,156
We have him,
about December of '78,
642
00:27:16,199 --> 00:27:18,549
there during his fugitive run.
643
00:27:18,593 --> 00:27:21,291
Now, what was happening
right after that?
644
00:27:21,335 --> 00:27:24,555
We have Briggs telling
his runners, "I'm D.B. Cooper."
645
00:27:24,599 --> 00:27:26,862
I think he gave him the money.
646
00:27:26,906 --> 00:27:28,908
And then after that,
14 months later,
647
00:27:28,951 --> 00:27:31,127
that money
is found on the shore.
648
00:27:31,171 --> 00:27:33,216
JENSEN: So Tom Colbert's theory
is that Rackstraw
649
00:27:33,260 --> 00:27:34,783
gave the money to Briggs,
650
00:27:34,827 --> 00:27:36,437
Briggs arranged
with Dwayne Ingram
651
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:38,221
to find the money
652
00:27:38,265 --> 00:27:40,920
so everyone would think
that D.B. Cooper was dead,
653
00:27:40,963 --> 00:27:44,532
and thus Rackstraw
couldn't be D.B. Cooper.
654
00:27:44,575 --> 00:27:46,316
That's some theory.
655
00:27:46,360 --> 00:27:48,101
So he wasn't gone really
that long this time.
656
00:27:48,144 --> 00:27:50,103
It was about three months.
657
00:27:50,146 --> 00:27:52,714
He's found 300 miles to the
south in Fullerton, California,
658
00:27:52,758 --> 00:27:54,629
assuming a fake name.
659
00:27:54,673 --> 00:27:57,676
The plane is at a now defunct,
privately-run airport
660
00:27:57,719 --> 00:28:00,417
in Huntington Beach
called Meadowlark Airport.
661
00:28:00,461 --> 00:28:03,986
Uh, he had repainted it,
puts tape over the tail number,
662
00:28:04,030 --> 00:28:05,509
adds a new tail number,
and then,
663
00:28:05,553 --> 00:28:08,034
on the I.D. on the dash,
does the same thing.
664
00:28:08,077 --> 00:28:09,470
Then he's apprehended,
665
00:28:09,513 --> 00:28:11,820
brought back up north
to face trial.
666
00:28:11,864 --> 00:28:13,953
And so now he's facing
not only check fraud
667
00:28:13,996 --> 00:28:15,911
and illegal possession
of explosives,
668
00:28:15,955 --> 00:28:18,435
but also, oh, he stole a plane.
669
00:28:18,479 --> 00:28:20,742
JENSEN: I'm here to find out
who D.B. Cooper is.
670
00:28:20,786 --> 00:28:23,440
I'm not here to find out
how bad this guy is.
671
00:28:23,484 --> 00:28:25,051
I don't need to hear about
the check frauds
672
00:28:25,094 --> 00:28:26,269
and all this other things;
I want to hear more
673
00:28:26,313 --> 00:28:27,836
about the hijacking.
674
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,796
COLBERT: The FBI quietly
investigated Rackstraw
675
00:28:30,839 --> 00:28:34,060
for a year, but for the
first time, it goes national.
676
00:28:34,103 --> 00:28:36,802
FORBES: And that's when he gives
this strange interview.
677
00:28:36,845 --> 00:28:39,543
NEWSMAN: Today at the
San Joaquin County Courthouse,
678
00:28:39,587 --> 00:28:42,503
this 35-year-old man,
Robert Rackstraw,
679
00:28:42,546 --> 00:28:44,461
made a brief court appearance
680
00:28:44,505 --> 00:28:46,072
on charges of
stealing an airplane
681
00:28:46,115 --> 00:28:48,248
and stockpiling explosives.
682
00:28:48,291 --> 00:28:51,207
Rackstraw is being kept
in solitary confinement
683
00:28:51,251 --> 00:28:53,775
partly because
the FBI still believes
684
00:28:53,819 --> 00:28:55,777
he may be D.B. Cooper,
685
00:28:55,821 --> 00:28:59,912
the skyjacker who parachuted
out of a 727 over Oregon
686
00:28:59,955 --> 00:29:03,611
with $200,000 in 1971.
687
00:29:03,654 --> 00:29:05,613
You think it's legit that you
could be one of the suspects,
688
00:29:05,656 --> 00:29:07,310
one of the thousand?
689
00:29:07,354 --> 00:29:09,660
Oh, yes. If I was an
investigator, definitely so.
690
00:29:09,704 --> 00:29:11,662
I wouldn't discount myself.
691
00:29:11,706 --> 00:29:12,925
I wouldn't, no.
692
00:29:12,968 --> 00:29:15,579
Or a person like myself.
693
00:29:15,623 --> 00:29:17,799
Were you in the Washington area
at that time?
694
00:29:17,843 --> 00:29:20,149
I've been in the Washington area
a number of times.
695
00:29:20,193 --> 00:29:21,847
The FBI's verified all that.
696
00:29:21,890 --> 00:29:24,066
That's one of the reasons
they keep hounding me.
697
00:29:24,110 --> 00:29:26,765
Well, I've been told that
they've spent something like
698
00:29:26,808 --> 00:29:30,725
$3.5 million-- that's including
this D.B. Cooper business.
699
00:29:30,769 --> 00:29:33,597
Some $160,000 between
these two counties
700
00:29:33,641 --> 00:29:36,513
to try and make me a criminal,
and they haven't succeeded yet.
701
00:29:36,557 --> 00:29:39,038
He received three years
for check fraud.
702
00:29:39,081 --> 00:29:41,954
He plead no contest
to the other charges.
703
00:29:41,997 --> 00:29:44,957
He was given,
with time served, two years.
704
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:46,741
He only served one.
705
00:29:46,785 --> 00:29:49,004
He gets out
in the summer of 1980.
706
00:29:49,048 --> 00:29:50,571
He gets two years probation.
707
00:29:50,614 --> 00:29:53,182
Once that's over,
he hits the books.
708
00:29:53,226 --> 00:29:56,316
He gets a degree from
San Francisco University
709
00:29:56,359 --> 00:30:00,450
in business; he gets
a law degree at another school.
710
00:30:00,494 --> 00:30:02,844
He winds up being
an arbitration expert.
711
00:30:02,888 --> 00:30:04,846
In fact,
he starts teaching arbitration
712
00:30:04,890 --> 00:30:07,806
at UC Riverside for ten years.
713
00:30:07,849 --> 00:30:10,199
Two of the years becoming
head of the legal department.
714
00:30:10,243 --> 00:30:12,245
I can't find any serious trouble
715
00:30:12,288 --> 00:30:15,030
that this guy's been in
from then till now.
716
00:30:15,074 --> 00:30:16,379
FORBES:
Somewhere along this time,
717
00:30:16,423 --> 00:30:18,468
and we're not sure exactly why,
718
00:30:18,512 --> 00:30:21,123
the FBI seems to lose interest
in Robert Rackstraw
719
00:30:21,167 --> 00:30:22,995
as a Cooper suspect.
720
00:30:23,038 --> 00:30:25,301
FUENTES:
Well, the policy, you know,
721
00:30:25,345 --> 00:30:27,260
is in existence--
it's not just an FBI policy,
722
00:30:27,303 --> 00:30:29,131
it's also
the U.S. Attorney's office
723
00:30:29,175 --> 00:30:32,482
and the Department of Justice--
on how much of a pending case
724
00:30:32,526 --> 00:30:34,615
is allowed to be revealed
to the public.
725
00:30:34,658 --> 00:30:37,618
And many people contact the FBI
726
00:30:37,661 --> 00:30:40,273
and ask for their identity
to be protected.
727
00:30:45,321 --> 00:30:46,932
FORBES: From the beginning,
we mentioned that
728
00:30:46,975 --> 00:30:49,151
Tom began assembling
this great cold case team
729
00:30:49,195 --> 00:30:51,197
back when he started
four and a half years ago.
730
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:53,895
It's very extensive,
it's widely varied,
731
00:30:53,939 --> 00:30:56,419
but we wanted to bring a couple
of the members here today
732
00:30:56,463 --> 00:30:58,508
to speak with you directly,
answer your questions,
733
00:30:58,552 --> 00:31:00,771
and illuminate a little further
some of the evidence
734
00:31:00,815 --> 00:31:02,904
that we've uncovered.
735
00:31:02,948 --> 00:31:05,124
So, first is Jack Trimarco,
former FBI.
736
00:31:05,167 --> 00:31:06,777
Uh, Jeff Renz, who is
737
00:31:06,821 --> 00:31:08,910
a law professor at
the University of Montana.
738
00:31:08,954 --> 00:31:12,348
Most recent member of the cold
case team is Dr. Kris Mohandie,
739
00:31:12,392 --> 00:31:16,439
and Kris is a forensic
criminal psychologist.
740
00:31:16,483 --> 00:31:18,964
And I think you're gonna
find this really illuminating,
741
00:31:19,007 --> 00:31:20,922
some of the information
they have to share with us.
742
00:31:20,966 --> 00:31:23,229
We met Bill Mitchell,
743
00:31:23,272 --> 00:31:25,013
who was a key witness
for the FBI
744
00:31:25,057 --> 00:31:26,275
in the first three years.
745
00:31:26,319 --> 00:31:28,364
Sat across from Cooper.
746
00:31:28,408 --> 00:31:30,236
We showed him a lineup
of six photos,
747
00:31:30,279 --> 00:31:32,151
and one of them was Rackstraw.
748
00:31:32,194 --> 00:31:34,544
A member of our cold case team,
John Bocciolatt,
749
00:31:34,588 --> 00:31:36,198
conducted that test.
750
00:31:36,242 --> 00:31:39,201
I'm gonna show you
some photographs.
751
00:31:39,245 --> 00:31:41,029
They're gonna
just be displayed in
752
00:31:41,073 --> 00:31:44,163
what we call
a six-pack window display.
753
00:31:44,206 --> 00:31:48,210
The suspect may or may not
be in the package.
754
00:31:48,254 --> 00:31:52,084
If you see the suspect in there,
would you point to the suspect?
755
00:32:12,452 --> 00:32:14,106
Well... [chuckles]
756
00:32:14,149 --> 00:32:16,499
That's Richard McCoy.
757
00:32:16,543 --> 00:32:17,979
NARRATOR:
The name Richard McCoy
758
00:32:18,023 --> 00:32:20,460
is synonymous with
the D.B. Cooper case.
759
00:32:20,503 --> 00:32:23,593
McCoy became a suspect in 1972
760
00:32:23,637 --> 00:32:26,988
when, five months after Cooper,
he skyjacked a 727,
761
00:32:27,032 --> 00:32:31,297
then parachuted out
with $500,000 in ransom.
762
00:32:31,340 --> 00:32:33,734
McCoy was later caught
763
00:32:33,777 --> 00:32:36,563
and eventually killed
in a shootout with the FBI.
764
00:32:36,606 --> 00:32:40,001
But the Bureau was never able
to conclusively link him
765
00:32:40,045 --> 00:32:42,743
to the Cooper skyjacking.
766
00:32:44,875 --> 00:32:47,269
MITCHELL:
It's just incredibly hard
767
00:32:47,313 --> 00:32:50,011
to remember 44 years ago.
768
00:32:50,055 --> 00:32:51,491
BOCCIOLATT:
So let me ask you,
769
00:32:51,534 --> 00:32:54,015
if you pointed to this person
770
00:32:54,059 --> 00:32:56,104
-and it's Richard McCoy...
-I did.
771
00:32:56,148 --> 00:33:00,717
...on a scale of one to ten,
ten absolutely being
772
00:33:00,761 --> 00:33:02,458
what you remember
as Richard McCoy,
773
00:33:02,502 --> 00:33:07,637
and one not being anybody
related to Richard McCoy,
774
00:33:07,681 --> 00:33:10,379
what number
would you put on that?
775
00:33:10,423 --> 00:33:12,338
MITCHELL:
Looks like Richard McCoy,
776
00:33:12,381 --> 00:33:16,429
and so I would probably
give that six or seven... six.
777
00:33:16,472 --> 00:33:21,347
You know,
none of them strike me as...
778
00:33:21,390 --> 00:33:22,696
D.B. Cooper.
779
00:33:22,739 --> 00:33:24,611
I mean, I... [stammers]
780
00:33:24,654 --> 00:33:26,526
I don't remember.
781
00:33:30,399 --> 00:33:32,575
I-I can't do it.
782
00:33:32,619 --> 00:33:35,622
-Thank you very much.
-Sure.
783
00:33:35,665 --> 00:33:38,233
You know,
when you lay out six photos,
784
00:33:38,277 --> 00:33:41,062
you make a comparative analysis.
785
00:33:41,106 --> 00:33:44,239
Now, what was interesting about
this is he just went boom.
786
00:33:44,283 --> 00:33:45,980
I agree that the fact he went
787
00:33:46,024 --> 00:33:48,548
straight to that photo
has significance.
788
00:33:48,591 --> 00:33:49,810
-As an investigative lead?
-Yes. Exactly.
789
00:33:49,853 --> 00:33:51,551
-Exactly.
-I agree with that.
790
00:33:51,594 --> 00:33:53,553
Not as an evidentiary matter
that you can introduce.
791
00:33:53,596 --> 00:33:56,077
An evidentiary issue is
a different one. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
792
00:33:56,121 --> 00:34:00,299
FUENTES: The photo array is
very questionable at best.
793
00:34:00,342 --> 00:34:02,127
You know, to me, I could see
where somebody could make
794
00:34:02,170 --> 00:34:03,519
a misidentification very easy.
795
00:34:03,563 --> 00:34:05,695
In this case,
you have Billy Mitchell
796
00:34:05,739 --> 00:34:07,654
paying more attention
to the flight attendants
797
00:34:07,697 --> 00:34:09,830
than the old man
sitting in the seat.
798
00:34:09,873 --> 00:34:11,701
It's kind of like, yeah, yeah,
no, what's with him?
799
00:34:11,745 --> 00:34:13,399
And how good of a view...
800
00:34:13,442 --> 00:34:15,488
Did he ever have
a full facial view
801
00:34:15,531 --> 00:34:17,751
of Cooper sitting over there?
802
00:34:17,794 --> 00:34:20,406
MOHANDIE:
Rackstraw's Army photo,
803
00:34:20,449 --> 00:34:22,843
compared to the McCoy photos,
804
00:34:22,886 --> 00:34:24,758
they don't look anything alike,
in my opinion.
805
00:34:24,801 --> 00:34:26,673
There was so much
emotional arousal
806
00:34:26,716 --> 00:34:28,936
associated with what happened
807
00:34:28,979 --> 00:34:33,549
when that initial information
was encoded into memory.
808
00:34:33,593 --> 00:34:37,423
And it conjures up
a visceral reaction years later.
809
00:34:37,466 --> 00:34:40,121
It's like a key
that unlocks a door
810
00:34:40,165 --> 00:34:41,905
that goes to the room
811
00:34:41,949 --> 00:34:44,691
where he houses his prototypes
for skyjackers.
812
00:34:44,734 --> 00:34:48,042
So his hijacker prototype
is D.B. Cooper.
813
00:34:48,086 --> 00:34:50,697
He confuses it with McCoy,
mistakenly,
814
00:34:50,740 --> 00:34:54,004
but really he's pointing out
D.B. Cooper.
815
00:34:54,048 --> 00:34:56,442
That's somebody he recognizes.
816
00:34:56,485 --> 00:34:58,183
FUENTES: Now the question is--
like there is with so many other
817
00:34:58,226 --> 00:35:00,402
eyewitness accounts--
would it be accurate?
818
00:35:00,446 --> 00:35:02,317
MOHANDIE: I-I don't think
there's a coincidence there.
819
00:35:02,361 --> 00:35:05,799
I think that
the psychology of that...
820
00:35:05,842 --> 00:35:07,844
of that response is significant,
821
00:35:07,888 --> 00:35:09,629
and I don't think
it was an accident.
822
00:35:12,632 --> 00:35:14,416
JENSEN: Sounds like, hey,
there could be something there,
823
00:35:14,460 --> 00:35:16,462
but, uh, listen,
824
00:35:16,505 --> 00:35:17,854
you know, psychologists are
always gonna say
825
00:35:17,898 --> 00:35:19,204
there could be something there.
826
00:35:19,247 --> 00:35:25,079
Sometimes a banana's
just a banana.
827
00:35:25,123 --> 00:35:26,776
FORBES: At the beginning
of this presentation,
828
00:35:26,820 --> 00:35:30,040
we said our D.B. Cooper suspect
is still alive.
829
00:35:30,084 --> 00:35:32,521
Now we'd like to show you
what happened
830
00:35:32,565 --> 00:35:34,741
when we reached out
to our suspect.
831
00:35:34,784 --> 00:35:36,786
NARRATOR:
Jim Forbes and Tom Colbert
832
00:35:36,830 --> 00:35:39,180
are in the final hour
of their presentation
833
00:35:39,224 --> 00:35:41,704
to former FBI Assistant Director
Tom Fuentes
834
00:35:41,748 --> 00:35:44,272
and veteran crime journalist
Billy Jensen.
835
00:35:44,316 --> 00:35:46,405
For the past three days,
836
00:35:46,448 --> 00:35:48,058
they've laid out a theory
that they believe shows
837
00:35:48,102 --> 00:35:50,409
that onetime
D.B. Cooper suspect
838
00:35:50,452 --> 00:35:54,413
Robert Rackstraw might be
the infamous skyjacker.
839
00:35:54,456 --> 00:35:55,805
FORBES:
So, in the summer of 2012,
840
00:35:55,849 --> 00:35:57,416
that's when Tom
reached out to me,
841
00:35:57,459 --> 00:36:00,201
'cause he wanted me to make
the contact with Rackstraw.
842
00:36:00,245 --> 00:36:02,421
Tom wondered if, in fact,
he would answer the call,
843
00:36:02,464 --> 00:36:03,987
and I said,
"I know he'll answer the call,
844
00:36:04,031 --> 00:36:05,641
"because if he is D.B. Cooper,
845
00:36:05,685 --> 00:36:07,426
"he's gonna want
to know what we got,
846
00:36:07,469 --> 00:36:09,428
"and if he's not,
he's gonna want to play us
847
00:36:09,471 --> 00:36:12,387
like he played NBC
back in 1979."
848
00:36:12,431 --> 00:36:13,997
There was no problem at all.
849
00:36:14,041 --> 00:36:15,956
He immediately got
back in touch with me.
850
00:36:15,999 --> 00:36:18,698
We spent, uh,
over an hour on the phone.
851
00:36:18,741 --> 00:36:21,179
So when you finally got in touch
with him, what did he say?
852
00:36:21,222 --> 00:36:23,137
That I knew that at one time
he was a suspect
853
00:36:23,181 --> 00:36:24,921
and quickly exonerated
854
00:36:24,965 --> 00:36:26,619
and I wanted to talk to him
about that experience;
855
00:36:26,662 --> 00:36:28,273
I'm sure it was hell
on he and his family.
856
00:36:28,316 --> 00:36:29,839
And he said, "Oh, yeah, it was,"
857
00:36:29,883 --> 00:36:32,015
and the conversation rolled on
from that point.
858
00:36:32,059 --> 00:36:33,713
And that was the first
of several phone calls.
859
00:36:33,756 --> 00:36:35,889
Over time, then,
it was clear that,
860
00:36:35,932 --> 00:36:37,717
while he initially agreed
to an interview,
861
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:39,588
he wasn't gonna do one.
862
00:36:39,632 --> 00:36:42,374
I eventually said to Tom,
"Look, this story goes nowhere
863
00:36:42,417 --> 00:36:44,071
"until we ask him
these questions.
864
00:36:44,114 --> 00:36:46,378
We need to go down and
have an encounter with him."
865
00:36:46,421 --> 00:36:49,207
We went down to have
a discussion with him
866
00:36:49,250 --> 00:36:51,165
in May of 2013.
867
00:36:51,209 --> 00:36:53,385
COLBERT: Our first approach
was me, showing up.
868
00:36:53,428 --> 00:36:55,691
I drove my car
right up to his store.
869
00:36:55,735 --> 00:36:58,999
Bob just thinks of me
as another client showing up.
870
00:36:59,042 --> 00:37:01,828
I walked up with a big smile,
handed him my business card,
871
00:37:01,871 --> 00:37:04,700
and he just...
"[Bleep]! It's Tom Colbert!"
872
00:37:04,744 --> 00:37:06,876
You know, he had no idea
I was coming.
873
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:09,923
And I say,
"Bob, we know who you are.
874
00:37:09,966 --> 00:37:13,796
"And if you come forward
and tell us what you did,
875
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:18,236
uh, and go on camera,
you can tell your story."
876
00:37:18,279 --> 00:37:21,413
He says, "Yeah, I... I...
I said I was Cooper,
877
00:37:21,456 --> 00:37:23,806
uh, but I was just pretending."
878
00:37:23,850 --> 00:37:26,548
I said, "You know that
Jim Forbes is here, too?"
879
00:37:26,592 --> 00:37:28,681
And he was surprised at that.
880
00:37:28,724 --> 00:37:30,291
And I said,
"Jim would love to come by."
881
00:37:30,335 --> 00:37:33,294
And after a little negotiation,
Jim showed up.
882
00:37:33,338 --> 00:37:35,949
He'd been out with, uh,
a colleague of his,
883
00:37:35,992 --> 00:37:37,516
and they were doing
a test run on a boat.
884
00:37:37,559 --> 00:37:39,735
And they pull it
into this chain-link fence
885
00:37:39,779 --> 00:37:41,041
on the property.
886
00:37:41,084 --> 00:37:43,173
Bob, it's Jim Forbes.
887
00:37:43,217 --> 00:37:46,351
I've got some easy questions.
888
00:37:46,394 --> 00:37:50,529
FORBES: Time passes,
time passes, and eventually,
889
00:37:50,572 --> 00:37:52,270
he just meanders up
to the fence,
890
00:37:52,313 --> 00:37:54,097
as though nothing's happening,
we're not there,
891
00:37:54,141 --> 00:37:55,403
just ignoring us.
892
00:37:55,447 --> 00:37:57,362
Then I walked up to the fence,
893
00:37:57,405 --> 00:37:59,451
and this is
the conversation we had.
894
00:37:59,494 --> 00:38:01,496
Hmm.
895
00:38:01,540 --> 00:38:03,455
FORBES [recorded]: Let me
ask you a simple question.
896
00:38:03,498 --> 00:38:05,065
No, you're not gonna
ask me any questions.
897
00:38:05,108 --> 00:38:06,414
-Oh, I'm gonna ask you
lots of... -I told you.
898
00:38:06,458 --> 00:38:08,155
I'm gonna ask you
lots of questions.
899
00:38:08,198 --> 00:38:09,504
-I won't ask any questions...
-That's okay.
900
00:38:09,548 --> 00:38:11,332
...and I won't answer
any questions.
901
00:38:11,376 --> 00:38:12,377
-That's okay. That's your
prerogative. -Attaboy.
902
00:38:12,420 --> 00:38:14,117
Are you the person
903
00:38:14,161 --> 00:38:15,467
-who boarded a flight...
-What did I just tell you?
904
00:38:15,510 --> 00:38:17,164
...on November 24, 1971,
905
00:38:17,207 --> 00:38:20,080
identifying yourself
as Dan Cooper?
906
00:38:20,123 --> 00:38:22,256
-Maybe I didn't...
-Did you hijack a plane
907
00:38:22,300 --> 00:38:24,606
when it was coming
out of Seattle toward Reno?
908
00:38:24,650 --> 00:38:25,955
-Did you jump out with...
-Maybe I wasn't clear, Jim.
909
00:38:25,999 --> 00:38:27,435
Maybe I wasn't clear.
910
00:38:27,479 --> 00:38:29,132
-Are you that person?
-Don't try...
911
00:38:29,176 --> 00:38:30,917
don't try and play
you're Dan Rather.
912
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:34,094
FORBES:
Are you D.B. Cooper, yes or no?
913
00:38:34,137 --> 00:38:36,009
I answered your question, Jim.
914
00:38:36,052 --> 00:38:39,099
Bob, we have eyewitnesses that
have you in Astoria, Oregon,
915
00:38:39,142 --> 00:38:42,145
from the time of your discharge
in 1971
916
00:38:42,189 --> 00:38:44,191
to the time of the hijacking.
Were you there?
917
00:38:44,234 --> 00:38:47,673
FUENTES: I think the approach
of Rackstraw at the marina,
918
00:38:47,716 --> 00:38:50,153
and the way that was conducted,
I just think...
919
00:38:50,197 --> 00:38:52,460
it didn't strike me as being
920
00:38:52,504 --> 00:38:55,202
the best thing to do
at that point in time,
921
00:38:55,245 --> 00:38:57,509
uh, to try to do
an ambush interview of him.
922
00:38:57,552 --> 00:39:00,338
Now, you see the media
sometimes do that.
923
00:39:00,381 --> 00:39:02,209
"No, tell us,
what'dou did." You know.
924
00:39:02,252 --> 00:39:03,602
And you see that.
925
00:39:03,645 --> 00:39:05,125
Well, they never get
a good answer,
926
00:39:05,168 --> 00:39:06,518
you know, when they do
that kind of thing,
927
00:39:06,561 --> 00:39:08,433
but it looks good
on the evening news,
928
00:39:08,476 --> 00:39:10,870
that they were all, uh,
you know, aggressive
929
00:39:10,913 --> 00:39:11,958
against the subject.
930
00:39:12,001 --> 00:39:13,742
FORBES:
Bob, why won't you
931
00:39:13,786 --> 00:39:14,961
just come out and say
932
00:39:15,004 --> 00:39:16,919
that you are not D.B. Cooper?
933
00:39:19,095 --> 00:39:21,402
We'll wait for you.
934
00:39:23,317 --> 00:39:25,145
FORBES:
I can't understand
935
00:39:25,188 --> 00:39:28,235
why he would not either
936
00:39:28,278 --> 00:39:30,716
get in my face and say,
"Get the hell out of here.
937
00:39:30,759 --> 00:39:32,761
You're crazy, Forbes.
I'm not Cooper."
938
00:39:32,805 --> 00:39:34,807
or just say,
"You need to leave,"
939
00:39:34,850 --> 00:39:36,199
or "I'm not Cooper,"
or whatever.
940
00:39:36,243 --> 00:39:37,810
What do you think, Tom?
941
00:39:37,853 --> 00:39:40,769
Well, I think the camera
makes all the difference.
942
00:39:40,813 --> 00:39:42,467
I think he's-he's in
943
00:39:42,510 --> 00:39:46,906
a defensive mode to just not
let this go anywhere at all.
944
00:39:46,949 --> 00:39:49,604
All right, so what happens next?
945
00:39:49,648 --> 00:39:51,867
So... simple question.
946
00:39:51,911 --> 00:39:54,696
Did you board
a Northwest Orient flight
947
00:39:54,740 --> 00:39:56,872
-on November 24, 1971...
-What difference does it make?
948
00:39:56,916 --> 00:39:58,961
-...as the name Dan Cooper?
-Jim...
949
00:39:59,005 --> 00:40:00,441
Because if you're,
if you're D.B. Cooper,
950
00:40:00,485 --> 00:40:02,095
the world would want
to know your story, Bob.
951
00:40:02,138 --> 00:40:04,576
Sure they would.
So would the FBI,
952
00:40:04,619 --> 00:40:06,186
and the secret indictment
in Washington, D.C....
953
00:40:06,229 --> 00:40:07,970
Bob, you're a folk hero.
954
00:40:08,014 --> 00:40:09,885
-Oh, no, no. -You're
a folk hero. Nobody cares.
955
00:40:09,929 --> 00:40:12,018
-FORBES: No denial.
-Mm-hmm.
956
00:40:12,061 --> 00:40:13,411
"Why not say?
You're a folk hero.
957
00:40:13,454 --> 00:40:15,456
Why not let the public know?"
958
00:40:15,500 --> 00:40:17,284
Well, because there's
a secret indictment.
959
00:40:17,327 --> 00:40:19,199
That's the first thing
he goes to.
960
00:40:19,242 --> 00:40:22,507
NARRATOR: In 1976,
five years after the skyjacking,
961
00:40:22,550 --> 00:40:24,465
at the point when
the statute of limitations
962
00:40:24,509 --> 00:40:27,555
to prosecute the crime
was about to run out,
963
00:40:27,599 --> 00:40:30,689
the FBI secured what is known as
a John Doe indictment.
964
00:40:30,732 --> 00:40:34,257
That means that if and when
the FBI collars D.B. Cooper,
965
00:40:34,301 --> 00:40:36,434
the U.S. Attorney will be
allowed to prosecute
966
00:40:36,477 --> 00:40:39,349
to the full extent of the law.
967
00:40:41,439 --> 00:40:42,614
I think he's trying to,
at this point,
968
00:40:42,657 --> 00:40:44,180
just hope you go away
969
00:40:44,224 --> 00:40:46,748
and lose patience
and give up and leave.
970
00:40:46,792 --> 00:40:49,664
FUENTES: I think in-in a case
where, if you have somebody
971
00:40:49,708 --> 00:40:52,188
that you've been investigating
for the number of years
972
00:40:52,232 --> 00:40:53,973
and the amount of effort
973
00:40:54,016 --> 00:40:57,063
that had gone into the
Colbert-Forbes investigation,
974
00:40:57,106 --> 00:41:00,588
you wouldn't want to, um,
sacrifice it, let's say,
975
00:41:00,632 --> 00:41:02,416
with one attempt
at an ambush interview.
976
00:41:02,460 --> 00:41:05,114
What you want to do is give him
a reason to talk to you,
977
00:41:05,158 --> 00:41:07,334
not a reason
to shout across a fence
978
00:41:07,377 --> 00:41:08,727
that he's not gonna talk to you.
979
00:41:08,770 --> 00:41:11,207
This is our last discussion.
980
00:41:11,251 --> 00:41:12,557
I'll pass. Damn if I...
981
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:13,949
And I don't remember
any of it, you know?
982
00:41:13,993 --> 00:41:15,516
-I'm so old.
-FORBES: But that's why
983
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:16,778
we should sit and talk, Bob.
984
00:41:16,822 --> 00:41:18,650
-Old and feeble.
-One last question.
985
00:41:18,693 --> 00:41:20,695
[engine starts]
986
00:41:20,739 --> 00:41:22,392
Did you board
that Northwest flight
987
00:41:22,436 --> 00:41:23,872
and hijack it for $200,000?
988
00:41:23,916 --> 00:41:26,353
I've never been
on a Northwest flight.
989
00:41:26,396 --> 00:41:28,529
Why are you so evasive
990
00:41:28,573 --> 00:41:30,618
about what should be
a simple thing to say no?
991
00:41:30,662 --> 00:41:33,229
Because you guys make
such a big deal out of it.
992
00:41:33,273 --> 00:41:34,970
FORBES:
It would've been...
993
00:41:35,014 --> 00:41:37,277
Why would you call NBC News
when you were in jail?
994
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:39,018
You know,
you asked me that before,
995
00:41:39,061 --> 00:41:40,759
and honest to God,
I don't remember any of that.
996
00:41:40,802 --> 00:41:42,500
FORBES:
Why did you...
997
00:41:42,543 --> 00:41:44,240
-I got to go.
-Why did you steal an airplane
998
00:41:44,284 --> 00:41:48,070
to avoid... facing...
999
00:41:48,114 --> 00:41:49,463
RACKSTRAW: The attorney
will be calling you.
1000
00:41:49,507 --> 00:41:51,334
FORBES:
Thank you.
1001
00:41:55,687 --> 00:41:58,385
COLBERT:
I get a response six days later,
1002
00:41:58,428 --> 00:42:00,953
and this is a very short note
from the attorney.
1003
00:42:00,996 --> 00:42:03,999
"Here is my client's response
to your offer.
1004
00:42:04,043 --> 00:42:06,698
"Now we will consider
a real offer,
1005
00:42:06,741 --> 00:42:09,527
"if they provide
virtually every piece of data
1006
00:42:09,570 --> 00:42:11,790
"and information
that they have acquired
1007
00:42:11,833 --> 00:42:14,706
"in the past years,
as they claim,
1008
00:42:14,749 --> 00:42:18,187
subject to our review of same."
1009
00:42:18,231 --> 00:42:20,450
That was his comment.
1010
00:42:20,494 --> 00:42:23,149
And that's where we left it.
1011
00:42:23,192 --> 00:42:24,977
So that's our case.
1012
00:42:25,020 --> 00:42:27,849
JENSEN: Colbert says he has
93 pieces of evidence.
1013
00:42:27,893 --> 00:42:29,547
But all this evidence
is within the story
1014
00:42:29,590 --> 00:42:31,070
that we're hearing right now.
1015
00:42:31,113 --> 00:42:34,508
And very little about this story
is about D.B. Cooper.
1016
00:42:34,552 --> 00:42:35,988
All we're hearing are details
1017
00:42:36,031 --> 00:42:38,077
about this specific gentleman
named Rackstraw.
1018
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:40,079
FORBES:
And this isn't, you know,
1019
00:42:40,122 --> 00:42:41,646
tied up in a nice
little knot for us.
1020
00:42:41,689 --> 00:42:43,430
Yeah, we're digging every day,
1021
00:42:43,473 --> 00:42:44,866
we're coming up with
new information every day.
1022
00:42:44,910 --> 00:42:46,651
COLBERT:
We think we're ready,
1023
00:42:46,694 --> 00:42:48,478
and we'd like to go
back to the FBI,
1024
00:42:48,522 --> 00:42:50,480
and we hope you guys
can help us do that.
1025
00:42:50,524 --> 00:42:52,308
I think Rackstraw's
very compelling,
1026
00:42:52,352 --> 00:42:54,528
and we certainly have
a lot of questions
1027
00:42:54,572 --> 00:42:56,225
from our investigation of
1028
00:42:56,269 --> 00:42:58,358
all the other suspects
that we've looked at.
1029
00:42:58,401 --> 00:43:01,361
FUENTES: We don't know why
the FBI stopped looking at him.
1030
00:43:01,404 --> 00:43:03,842
We know that he was
a prime suspect in the '70s,
1031
00:43:03,885 --> 00:43:06,018
and we know now
that you went back to them
1032
00:43:06,061 --> 00:43:07,846
just a few years ago,
1033
00:43:07,889 --> 00:43:10,370
but it doesn't tell us
why they stopped looking at him
1034
00:43:10,413 --> 00:43:13,329
or didn't prosecute him.
1035
00:43:13,373 --> 00:43:17,595
Yes, based on this presentation,
we will go to the FBI
1036
00:43:17,638 --> 00:43:20,641
and ask why they stopped
working on Rackstraw.
1037
00:43:20,685 --> 00:43:22,034
Now, they may not give that up,
1038
00:43:22,077 --> 00:43:24,514
but it would be great
to learn that.
1039
00:43:24,558 --> 00:43:25,820
-COLBERT: It would. It would.
-FORBES: Thank you.
1040
00:43:25,864 --> 00:43:27,387
Thank you.
1041
00:43:27,430 --> 00:43:28,910
Appreciate it, guys,
more than you know.
1042
00:43:28,954 --> 00:43:30,129
FUENTES:
We'll be in touch soon.
1043
00:43:30,172 --> 00:43:32,566
Excellent. Thanks, Tom.
1044
00:43:32,610 --> 00:43:33,872
-Appreciate it.
-COLBERT: Thank you.
1045
00:43:36,701 --> 00:43:39,268
FUENTES:
It is a very compelling story.
1046
00:43:39,312 --> 00:43:42,663
And if you were personally
involved in this investigation
1047
00:43:42,707 --> 00:43:44,883
for several years,
like they have been,
1048
00:43:44,926 --> 00:43:48,147
I could see where they would be
completely convinced.
1049
00:43:48,190 --> 00:43:50,889
JENSEN:
He's a viable suspect,
1050
00:43:50,932 --> 00:43:53,195
even though I did have
a couple of issues.
1051
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:56,590
There are so many coincidental
and circumstantial events
1052
00:43:56,634 --> 00:43:58,374
that prove that he could be,
1053
00:43:58,418 --> 00:44:01,334
but to go so far as to say,
"It's him,"
1054
00:44:01,377 --> 00:44:06,513
uh, you know, I'm not ready
to make that jump.
1055
00:44:06,556 --> 00:44:09,037
FORBES [over phone]:So good luck, have fun and, uh,
1056
00:44:09,081 --> 00:44:10,778
we look forward
to seeing you in L.A.
1057
00:44:10,822 --> 00:44:13,651
-JENSEN: Thank you. -FUENTES:
Thanks, guys. -Bye, guys.
1058
00:44:13,694 --> 00:44:15,043
[phone beeps]
1059
00:44:15,087 --> 00:44:16,523
FORBES:
I wish I was going on that trip.
1060
00:44:16,566 --> 00:44:17,785
I bet you do.
1061
00:44:17,829 --> 00:44:19,787
You know, I truly feel
1062
00:44:19,831 --> 00:44:22,181
what would be the best thing
to happen for me
1063
00:44:22,224 --> 00:44:23,835
is closure for Tina.
1064
00:44:23,878 --> 00:44:25,445
NARRATOR: After spending
the last three days
1065
00:44:25,488 --> 00:44:27,926
presenting a D.B. Cooper theory
1066
00:44:27,969 --> 00:44:29,710
that he spent
five years working on,
1067
00:44:29,754 --> 00:44:31,799
journalist Tom Colbert
1068
00:44:31,843 --> 00:44:33,192
and his partner,
fellow journalist Jim Forbes,
1069
00:44:33,235 --> 00:44:34,802
are still thinking about
1070
00:44:34,846 --> 00:44:37,326
the one interview
they couldn't get.
1071
00:44:37,370 --> 00:44:39,415
So you want to talk to Tina.
1072
00:44:39,459 --> 00:44:41,983
I wish we could talk to Tina,
but I think she's made it clear
1073
00:44:42,027 --> 00:44:44,072
she won't talk if she believes
he could be out there.
1074
00:44:44,116 --> 00:44:46,509
NARRATOR:
"Tina" is Tina Mucklow,
1075
00:44:46,553 --> 00:44:50,600
the flight attendant who spent
the most time with D.B. Cooper.
1076
00:44:50,644 --> 00:44:54,126
I would love to convince her
we have identified the man,
1077
00:44:54,169 --> 00:44:57,129
he's being watched,
tell us your story.
1078
00:44:57,172 --> 00:44:58,478
That would be incredible.
1079
00:44:58,521 --> 00:45:00,785
And bring her closure.
1080
00:45:00,828 --> 00:45:02,961
'Cause... 'cause everybody says
it's a victimless crime.
1081
00:45:03,004 --> 00:45:05,441
Uh-uh. I think of Tina,
I think of the pilots,
1082
00:45:05,485 --> 00:45:06,834
I think of everyone else.
1083
00:45:06,878 --> 00:45:09,445
But if our telling this story
1084
00:45:09,489 --> 00:45:13,275
brings her peace,
boy, that would be incredible.
1085
00:45:14,973 --> 00:45:17,845
NARRATOR: While Colbert
and Forbes stay back in L.A.,
1086
00:45:17,889 --> 00:45:20,718
former FBI Assistant Director
Tom Fuentes
1087
00:45:20,761 --> 00:45:22,154
and veteran crime journalist
Billy Jensen
1088
00:45:22,197 --> 00:45:23,721
are headed north to Seattle
1089
00:45:23,764 --> 00:45:25,766
where they have set a meeting
with Curtis Eng,
1090
00:45:25,810 --> 00:45:30,292
the agent in charge of the
D.B. Cooper skyjacking case.
1091
00:45:30,336 --> 00:45:32,947
JENSEN: The things that I would
like to know right now--
1092
00:45:32,991 --> 00:45:35,776
I want to know about, you know,
this character Rackstraw,
1093
00:45:35,820 --> 00:45:39,084
and whether he was eliminated
and why he was eliminated.
1094
00:45:39,127 --> 00:45:40,825
I want to know about the eight
cigarette butts that were
1095
00:45:40,868 --> 00:45:42,435
left on the plane
by D.B. Cooper.
1096
00:45:42,478 --> 00:45:44,742
Those are the questions
that I want to know.
1097
00:45:44,785 --> 00:45:46,700
NARRATOR:
Fuentes and Jensen
1098
00:45:46,744 --> 00:45:49,703
will seek answers
for Tom Colbert and Jim Forbes,
1099
00:45:49,747 --> 00:45:51,749
answers to whether
or not the FBI
1100
00:45:51,792 --> 00:45:54,708
would reconsider
Colbert's and Forbes's theory
1101
00:45:54,752 --> 00:45:58,407
that onetime D.B. Cooper suspect
Robert W. Rackstraw
1102
00:45:58,451 --> 00:46:00,975
may be the infamous skyjacker.
1103
00:46:02,324 --> 00:46:03,891
-[line beeps]
-Hi, Bob.
1104
00:46:03,935 --> 00:46:05,893
This is Billy Jensen.
I'm an investigator.
1105
00:46:05,937 --> 00:46:08,635
I just heard a pretty
interesting story about you.
1106
00:46:08,678 --> 00:46:10,550
If you could,
give me a call back, uh,
1107
00:46:10,593 --> 00:46:12,726
'cause I'd love to talk
to you about some things.
1108
00:46:12,770 --> 00:46:14,772
Bye-bye.
1109
00:46:14,815 --> 00:46:16,425
JENSEN: It'd be great to talk
to Rackstraw.
1110
00:46:16,469 --> 00:46:17,600
He's a Cooper suspect.
1111
00:46:17,644 --> 00:46:19,385
And they left a lot on the table
1112
00:46:19,428 --> 00:46:20,908
when they went to talk
to him the first time.
1113
00:46:20,952 --> 00:46:22,823
I'd love to sit down with him
1114
00:46:22,867 --> 00:46:24,738
and listen to what
he has to say.
1115
00:46:24,782 --> 00:46:27,132
NARRATOR: Robert Rackstraw
isn't the only person
1116
00:46:27,175 --> 00:46:30,004
featured in the Colbert/Forbes
presentation for whom
1117
00:46:30,048 --> 00:46:32,615
the two investigators
have questions.
1118
00:46:32,659 --> 00:46:34,487
JENSEN: Hi, Dwayne.
This is Billy Jensen.
1119
00:46:34,530 --> 00:46:36,576
I'm an investigator looking
into the D.B. Cooper case.
1120
00:46:36,619 --> 00:46:37,533
How are you today?
1121
00:46:40,972 --> 00:46:42,930
Dwayne Ingram
and his eight-year-old son
1122
00:46:42,974 --> 00:46:45,193
found some
of D.B. Cooper's ransom money
1123
00:46:45,237 --> 00:46:48,327
along the Columbia River
in 1980,
1124
00:46:48,370 --> 00:46:50,111
nine years
after the skyjacking.
1125
00:46:50,155 --> 00:46:53,898
According to Colbert and Forbes,
a man named Dick Briggs
1126
00:46:53,941 --> 00:46:56,074
allegedly predicted,
days before the find,
1127
00:46:56,117 --> 00:46:58,990
that Ingram would
discover the cash.
1128
00:46:59,033 --> 00:47:01,775
Their assertion is
that the money was planted
1129
00:47:01,819 --> 00:47:03,646
and that Ingram was in on it.
1130
00:47:03,690 --> 00:47:06,084
It's a significant claim
and a cornerstone
1131
00:47:06,127 --> 00:47:09,304
in the foundation
of the Colbert/Forbes theory.
1132
00:47:09,348 --> 00:47:11,089
Well, we were
just showed an interview
1133
00:47:11,132 --> 00:47:13,178
from a guy named Jim Forbes
who came down to your house
1134
00:47:13,221 --> 00:47:14,875
and gave you
a line of questioning.
1135
00:47:14,919 --> 00:47:17,008
And... suffice to say
1136
00:47:17,051 --> 00:47:19,619
that you looked pretty agitated
on that interview.
1137
00:47:30,935 --> 00:47:32,893
Is there anything
to his allegations?
1138
00:47:48,169 --> 00:47:50,258
When's the last time
that you were up at Tena Bar?
1139
00:47:54,393 --> 00:47:55,742
JENSEN: Would you be willing
to come down to the river
1140
00:47:55,785 --> 00:47:58,049
at Tena Bar
and walk the site with us?
1141
00:47:58,092 --> 00:47:59,833
Yeah, we'd love to get
your take on everything.
1142
00:48:03,358 --> 00:48:06,274
Why'd you pick this place for,
for a good place to camp?
1143
00:48:06,318 --> 00:48:08,450
INGRAM:
I had a dog.
1144
00:48:08,494 --> 00:48:10,888
So I loaded him up
one day after work
1145
00:48:10,931 --> 00:48:13,934
and I come over here
and worm my way around,
1146
00:48:13,978 --> 00:48:15,893
found a way down in here,
you know?
1147
00:48:15,936 --> 00:48:18,025
And I would run him
on this beach.
1148
00:48:18,069 --> 00:48:20,245
Up and down,
up and down, up and down.
1149
00:48:20,288 --> 00:48:22,421
It's a wonder
he didn't find the money.
1150
00:48:22,464 --> 00:48:24,379
And then once I got down here,
I thought, "Wow.
1151
00:48:24,423 --> 00:48:26,729
"This is the place to hang out
1152
00:48:26,773 --> 00:48:29,689
when you ain't hanging out
somewhere else, you know?"
1153
00:48:29,732 --> 00:48:31,865
JENSEN: How do you think
the money ended up here?
1154
00:48:31,909 --> 00:48:33,736
I don't really know.
1155
00:48:33,780 --> 00:48:36,391
And it didn't
seem normal to me, though...
1156
00:48:36,435 --> 00:48:38,393
-Mm-hmm.
-...the way it was.
1157
00:48:38,437 --> 00:48:41,266
It didn't seem normal at all.
1158
00:48:41,309 --> 00:48:44,660
This weren't scattered.
1159
00:48:44,704 --> 00:48:48,447
This was all three
touching each other
1160
00:48:48,490 --> 00:48:51,406
and just rolled up so gingerly.
1161
00:48:51,450 --> 00:48:52,451
How deep was it?
1162
00:48:52,494 --> 00:48:53,626
Couldn't have been deep,
1163
00:48:53,669 --> 00:48:55,367
because he was eight years old.
1164
00:48:55,410 --> 00:48:57,238
The little skinny arms
about like mine.
1165
00:48:57,282 --> 00:48:59,153
He was simply going like that.
1166
00:48:59,197 --> 00:49:00,502
He wasn't using
a shovel or anything.
1167
00:49:00,546 --> 00:49:02,200
-He was just...
-Uh-uh.
1168
00:49:02,243 --> 00:49:03,984
That was too simple--
you see what I mean?
1169
00:49:04,028 --> 00:49:05,725
-Right.
-Yeah.
1170
00:49:05,768 --> 00:49:09,729
I was asked,
"Where's the other 194,000?"
1171
00:49:09,772 --> 00:49:12,645
They were happy that you brought
the six, you know, $5,800.
1172
00:49:12,688 --> 00:49:14,603
And they immediately thought,
1173
00:49:14,647 --> 00:49:16,692
"He's got the rest
of the money somewhere."
1174
00:49:16,736 --> 00:49:20,131
I felt as though
they thought that.
1175
00:49:20,174 --> 00:49:23,308
Seems to beg the question:
Why would you pocket 194,
1176
00:49:23,351 --> 00:49:25,179
knowing you couldn't spend it?
1177
00:49:25,223 --> 00:49:27,747
I said, "I don't know where
your money is." [chuckles]
1178
00:49:27,790 --> 00:49:30,402
I was asked, "Where-where
do you think Cooper is?"
1179
00:49:30,445 --> 00:49:32,273
"How would I know?
1180
00:49:32,317 --> 00:49:34,188
"Maybe he's screwed
up to his elbows
1181
00:49:34,232 --> 00:49:35,755
"on a mountain over there
1182
00:49:35,798 --> 00:49:37,365
"still trying to get
his parachute open.
1183
00:49:37,409 --> 00:49:39,280
How would I know this, you see?"
1184
00:49:39,324 --> 00:49:40,760
'Cause I guess
you were their first lead
1185
00:49:40,803 --> 00:49:42,805
in a long, long time, so...
1186
00:49:42,849 --> 00:49:45,330
But, you know,
it's a shame when you try
1187
00:49:45,373 --> 00:49:47,201
to do something right
1188
00:49:47,245 --> 00:49:50,509
and... and everything
starts going wrong.
1189
00:49:50,552 --> 00:49:54,034
I'd rather not found it at all.
1190
00:49:54,078 --> 00:49:56,341
JENSEN: Was Dwayne Ingram
complicit in this crime?
1191
00:49:56,384 --> 00:49:57,995
Did he plant this?
1192
00:49:58,038 --> 00:50:00,432
Uh, it seems
really far-fetched to me.
1193
00:50:00,475 --> 00:50:02,129
He certainly seems like a guy
1194
00:50:02,173 --> 00:50:05,654
that just found
some money and was
1195
00:50:05,698 --> 00:50:09,615
unwittingly pulled
into this crazy caper.
1196
00:50:11,486 --> 00:50:13,662
So this is gonna be exciting.
1197
00:50:13,706 --> 00:50:15,273
We go into the belly
of the beast.
1198
00:50:15,316 --> 00:50:17,057
NARRATOR:
Billy Jensen and Tom Fuentes
1199
00:50:17,101 --> 00:50:19,929
are back in Seattle
for their meeting at the FBI.
1200
00:50:19,973 --> 00:50:21,670
The D.B. Cooper case falls
1201
00:50:21,714 --> 00:50:23,672
under the jurisdiction
of this division.
1202
00:50:23,716 --> 00:50:26,632
ENG:
This is the first time I've...
1203
00:50:26,675 --> 00:50:30,070
I've ever spoken to the media
about anything in the FBI.
1204
00:50:30,114 --> 00:50:31,593
NARRATOR:
Special Agent Curtis Eng
1205
00:50:31,637 --> 00:50:35,684
has been the lead agent
on the case since 2010.
1206
00:50:35,728 --> 00:50:38,209
He met with Tom Colbert in 2012,
1207
00:50:38,252 --> 00:50:41,255
back when Colbert had just
started his investigation
1208
00:50:41,299 --> 00:50:43,953
and had 33 pieces
of circumstantial evidence--
1209
00:50:43,997 --> 00:50:47,522
less than half of
what he claims to have now.
1210
00:50:47,566 --> 00:50:49,437
Do you remember
meeting Tom Colbert?
1211
00:50:49,481 --> 00:50:52,614
Yes, he-he came
to the Seattle division
1212
00:50:52,658 --> 00:50:54,573
a couple years back.
1213
00:50:54,616 --> 00:50:57,402
I normally don't meet with
people who have suspects,
1214
00:50:57,445 --> 00:51:01,232
but, um, in his situation,
I made an exception.
1215
00:51:01,275 --> 00:51:03,408
Why'd you make
an exception for him?
1216
00:51:03,451 --> 00:51:08,195
He was referred
by another FBI division,
1217
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:12,025
so I gave it its due diligence.
1218
00:51:12,069 --> 00:51:15,724
When individuals have come in to
provide their theories to me,
1219
00:51:15,768 --> 00:51:20,207
I still cannot confirm or deny
anything about the case.
1220
00:51:20,251 --> 00:51:21,817
I am taking their information,
1221
00:51:21,861 --> 00:51:23,558
but I'm not gonna
give them any feedback.
1222
00:51:23,602 --> 00:51:25,473
It's-it's a one-way street.
1223
00:51:25,517 --> 00:51:28,215
If their information
they give me is not useful,
1224
00:51:28,259 --> 00:51:31,262
I can't really tell them that.
1225
00:51:31,305 --> 00:51:33,960
NARRATOR: According to
The Privacy Act of 1974,
1226
00:51:34,003 --> 00:51:36,789
the FBI is prohibited
from publicly disclosing
1227
00:51:36,832 --> 00:51:38,660
details of a pending case,
1228
00:51:38,704 --> 00:51:41,228
unless those details
are stated in an indictment
1229
00:51:41,272 --> 00:51:44,144
or become testimony
in a legal proceeding.
1230
00:51:44,188 --> 00:51:45,972
JENSEN:
And what was your impression
1231
00:51:46,015 --> 00:51:48,279
of Colbert
and his investigation?
1232
00:51:48,322 --> 00:51:51,456
Although his presentation
was thorough
1233
00:51:51,499 --> 00:51:56,025
and it was detailed,
it didn't prove
1234
00:51:56,069 --> 00:51:58,332
that his suspect was Dan Cooper.
1235
00:51:58,376 --> 00:52:01,509
I can't go
on nice presentations.
1236
00:52:01,553 --> 00:52:02,989
I have to go by evidence.
1237
00:52:03,032 --> 00:52:05,557
And that presentation
1238
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:08,168
didn't give me
any additional evidence
1239
00:52:08,212 --> 00:52:11,345
that I could use
to prosecute the case.
1240
00:52:11,389 --> 00:52:13,434
There are times
when I've concluded
1241
00:52:13,478 --> 00:52:16,742
that it's not the individual
based on what I already know
1242
00:52:16,785 --> 00:52:19,266
and why they were
eliminated years before
1243
00:52:19,310 --> 00:52:21,181
by my predecessors.
1244
00:52:21,225 --> 00:52:22,835
JENSEN:
Colbert's entire investigation
1245
00:52:22,878 --> 00:52:25,881
is centered around a guy
that the FBI has dismissed.
1246
00:52:25,925 --> 00:52:28,232
Now, they won't tell us the
reasons why they dismissed him,
1247
00:52:28,275 --> 00:52:30,582
but as best they can,
they are telling us
1248
00:52:30,625 --> 00:52:33,280
that Rackstraw is not the guy.
1249
00:52:33,324 --> 00:52:37,197
My job as an agent
is not to help somebody
1250
00:52:37,241 --> 00:52:38,981
confirm their theories.
1251
00:52:39,025 --> 00:52:41,549
My job is to bring
prosecutable cases
1252
00:52:41,593 --> 00:52:44,378
to the Assistant United States
Attorney's office.
1253
00:52:44,422 --> 00:52:46,641
It is frustrating,
1254
00:52:46,685 --> 00:52:48,991
because the suspects
that we already have,
1255
00:52:49,035 --> 00:52:52,647
the current evidence
doesn't really eliminate them,
1256
00:52:52,691 --> 00:52:55,781
but it also doesn't prove
that they did it, either.
1257
00:52:55,824 --> 00:52:57,565
Obviously, in 1971,
1258
00:52:57,609 --> 00:53:01,178
there was no, um,
uh, forensic DNA.
1259
00:53:01,221 --> 00:53:03,223
But when you hear
that the guy was a smoker
1260
00:53:03,267 --> 00:53:05,356
and that the guy did leave eight
cigarette butts on the plane...
1261
00:53:05,399 --> 00:53:07,575
Nowadays, there's
a protocol we follow
1262
00:53:07,619 --> 00:53:09,621
when we gather evidence.
1263
00:53:09,664 --> 00:53:10,970
Back then, they didn't
have those protocols,
1264
00:53:11,013 --> 00:53:13,929
because DNA testing
didn't exist.
1265
00:53:13,973 --> 00:53:16,802
So the DNA
that we have obtained,
1266
00:53:16,845 --> 00:53:18,543
there's multiple donors
on there.
1267
00:53:18,586 --> 00:53:21,285
It's not a complete profile.
1268
00:53:21,328 --> 00:53:24,244
So in court, it'd be useless.
1269
00:53:24,288 --> 00:53:26,725
They will not prosecute a case
unless there's
1270
00:53:26,768 --> 00:53:30,555
ample evidence,
and, um, in this situation,
1271
00:53:30,598 --> 00:53:33,427
in this case,
there isn't ample evidence.
1272
00:53:33,471 --> 00:53:35,212
JENSEN:
For Colbert and Forbes,
1273
00:53:35,255 --> 00:53:36,561
unless they have
the parachutes or the money,
1274
00:53:36,604 --> 00:53:39,781
the FBI is not gonna
answer the phone for them.
1275
00:53:39,825 --> 00:53:42,088
NARRATOR:
As Fuentes and Jensen wrap up
1276
00:53:42,131 --> 00:53:44,090
their meeting with Agent Eng,
the guys are summoned
1277
00:53:44,133 --> 00:53:46,266
by Public Affairs Specialist
Ayn Dietrich-Williams.
1278
00:53:46,310 --> 00:53:48,094
[door beeps]
1279
00:53:48,137 --> 00:53:49,661
DIETRICH-WILLIAMS:
We're preparing for a change
1280
00:53:49,704 --> 00:53:51,489
in status of the case,
1281
00:53:51,532 --> 00:53:54,231
and so for that reason,
I'm going to have you talk
1282
00:53:54,274 --> 00:53:57,059
to the head of our office,
the special agent in charge,
1283
00:53:57,103 --> 00:53:59,540
which is very unusual for us.
1284
00:53:59,584 --> 00:54:01,020
It's always easier
to talk about a case
1285
00:54:01,063 --> 00:54:03,022
with a former FBI employee.
1286
00:54:03,065 --> 00:54:05,111
They get all the nuances
of working the case
1287
00:54:05,154 --> 00:54:07,287
and they speak
our language, in a way.
1288
00:54:07,331 --> 00:54:10,290
NARRATOR: Frank Montoya
is the special agent
1289
00:54:10,334 --> 00:54:12,945
in charge
of the FBI's Seattle division.
1290
00:54:12,988 --> 00:54:15,513
MONTOYA: D.B. Cooper--
as Americans, we have a tendency
1291
00:54:15,556 --> 00:54:17,384
to-to kind of lionize him.
1292
00:54:17,428 --> 00:54:19,604
It's-it's part of our culture.
1293
00:54:19,647 --> 00:54:21,388
But the fact of the matter is
1294
00:54:21,432 --> 00:54:23,651
the world has changed
so much in 45 years.
1295
00:54:23,695 --> 00:54:26,611
And the-the nature of the
challenges that we're facing,
1296
00:54:26,654 --> 00:54:29,527
the threats that we're facing
have evolved as well.
1297
00:54:29,570 --> 00:54:32,443
And our resources are,
frankly, just better served
1298
00:54:32,486 --> 00:54:34,009
in-in these other areas.
1299
00:54:34,053 --> 00:54:35,924
And so, we're about
to make a transition,
1300
00:54:35,968 --> 00:54:37,926
an official transition
in the case.
1301
00:54:37,970 --> 00:54:40,538
So is this case closed?
1302
00:54:48,197 --> 00:54:51,288
MONTOYA: The world has
changed so much in 45 years.
1303
00:54:51,331 --> 00:54:53,812
And the-the nature of the
challenges that we're facing,
1304
00:54:53,855 --> 00:54:56,380
the threats that we're facing
have evolved as well.
1305
00:54:56,423 --> 00:54:59,252
And our resources are, frankly,
1306
00:54:59,296 --> 00:55:01,646
just better served
in-in these other areas.
1307
00:55:01,689 --> 00:55:04,083
NARRATOR: Tom Fuentes's
and Billy Jensen's meeting
1308
00:55:04,126 --> 00:55:06,215
with the FBI
takes an unexpected turn
1309
00:55:06,259 --> 00:55:08,740
when Frank Montoya,
the special agent
1310
00:55:08,783 --> 00:55:11,220
in charge
of the Seattle division,
1311
00:55:11,264 --> 00:55:13,048
reveals he has
a major announcement
1312
00:55:13,092 --> 00:55:16,225
about the D.B. Cooper case.
1313
00:55:16,269 --> 00:55:17,705
We're about
to make a transition,
1314
00:55:17,749 --> 00:55:19,533
an official transition
in the case,
1315
00:55:19,577 --> 00:55:21,535
and we'll be
putting out a statement, uh,
1316
00:55:21,579 --> 00:55:24,625
on our Web site
as well as via social media.
1317
00:55:24,669 --> 00:55:26,845
It's just this simple.
"Following one of the longest
1318
00:55:26,888 --> 00:55:29,674
"and most exhaustive
investigations in our history,
1319
00:55:29,717 --> 00:55:32,024
"the FBI will be
redirecting resources
1320
00:55:32,067 --> 00:55:35,375
"allocated to the 45-year-old
D.B. Cooper case
1321
00:55:35,419 --> 00:55:37,551
in order to focus on other
investigative priorities."
1322
00:55:37,595 --> 00:55:40,772
JENSEN: After 40 years and all
these different theories,
1323
00:55:40,815 --> 00:55:42,295
you want to find out who did it.
1324
00:55:42,339 --> 00:55:44,253
You want to leave
no stone unturned.
1325
00:55:44,297 --> 00:55:46,821
But the FBI seems like they're
at the end of their rope.
1326
00:55:46,865 --> 00:55:50,564
So the evidence will be boxed.
1327
00:55:50,608 --> 00:55:52,392
It'll be catalog boxed
1328
00:55:52,436 --> 00:55:54,481
and shipped back
to our headquarters.
1329
00:55:54,525 --> 00:55:57,092
The files will also be moved
back to our headquarters.
1330
00:55:57,136 --> 00:55:59,138
Um, and then we'll be moving on.
1331
00:55:59,181 --> 00:56:01,270
So is this case closed?
1332
00:56:01,314 --> 00:56:04,404
Administratively, yes.
1333
00:56:04,448 --> 00:56:08,190
It's not that we're turning
our back on the investigation.
1334
00:56:08,234 --> 00:56:10,454
It's one of those things
where if something did come up
1335
00:56:10,497 --> 00:56:13,065
that was worthy of our, of our,
1336
00:56:13,108 --> 00:56:16,503
of additional pursuit,
we would absolutely go after it.
1337
00:56:16,547 --> 00:56:19,593
What would you consider
a worthy lead?
1338
00:56:19,637 --> 00:56:22,074
Bottom line would be the money
or-or the parachute.
1339
00:56:22,117 --> 00:56:24,555
FUENTES: The way the rules
work in the federal
1340
00:56:24,598 --> 00:56:27,253
criminal justice system,
if the United States Attorney's
1341
00:56:27,296 --> 00:56:30,909
office says, "We will not
prosecute that case,"
1342
00:56:30,952 --> 00:56:34,303
then you are to cease
and desist investigation.
1343
00:56:34,347 --> 00:56:36,436
So if somebody shows up
with anything other
1344
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:38,351
really than the parachute
or the money,
1345
00:56:38,395 --> 00:56:40,397
they're gonna be shown the door?
1346
00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:42,399
They'll be thanked for their
interest and we'll move on
1347
00:56:42,442 --> 00:56:44,270
to the next case.
1348
00:56:44,313 --> 00:56:45,793
On behalf of a grateful FBI,
1349
00:56:45,837 --> 00:56:48,013
thank you for giving us
more information,
1350
00:56:48,056 --> 00:56:49,971
but you're gonna have to look at
1351
00:56:50,015 --> 00:56:51,625
whether it's credible
and whether
1352
00:56:51,669 --> 00:56:53,627
-it can lead to the prosecution.
-Absolutely.
1353
00:56:53,671 --> 00:56:56,456
JENSEN:
Wow, this is historic.
1354
00:56:56,500 --> 00:56:57,762
This is one of the most famous
1355
00:56:57,805 --> 00:56:59,851
unsolved crimes
in American history.
1356
00:56:59,894 --> 00:57:01,722
After all the millions of words
that have been written,
1357
00:57:01,766 --> 00:57:04,072
all the theories,
all the books,
1358
00:57:04,116 --> 00:57:05,944
they're closing this case.
1359
00:57:05,987 --> 00:57:08,033
It's pretty incredible.
1360
00:57:08,076 --> 00:57:11,210
NARRATOR: While the FBI is
essentially shutting the door
1361
00:57:11,253 --> 00:57:14,561
on the Colbert/Forbes theory,
Fuentes and Jensen are about
1362
00:57:14,605 --> 00:57:18,173
to open one that has been
closed for 45 years.
1363
00:57:18,217 --> 00:57:20,872
With the help of the FBI,
Fuentes and Jensen
1364
00:57:20,915 --> 00:57:22,743
have secured a meeting
1365
00:57:22,787 --> 00:57:25,354
with the one person who spent
the most amount of time
1366
00:57:25,398 --> 00:57:27,400
with the infamous skyjacker--
1367
00:57:27,444 --> 00:57:31,360
the person who last saw him
before he jumped into history
1368
00:57:31,404 --> 00:57:33,885
and the one person who Colbert
and Forbes believe
1369
00:57:33,928 --> 00:57:36,453
is the key to confirming
their theory.
1370
00:57:36,496 --> 00:57:37,366
Hello. [chuckles]
1371
00:57:37,410 --> 00:57:38,542
-Hi.
-COLBERT: Hi.
1372
00:57:38,585 --> 00:57:40,065
NARRATOR:
After a 45-year
1373
00:57:40,108 --> 00:57:42,720
self-imposed silence
about her experience
1374
00:57:42,763 --> 00:57:45,505
with D.B. Cooper,
flight attendant Tina Mucklow
1375
00:57:45,549 --> 00:57:47,725
has agreed
to one last interview.
1376
00:57:47,768 --> 00:57:49,640
MUCKLOW:
And this character I know.
1377
00:57:49,683 --> 00:57:51,337
-[laughter]
-Tina.
1378
00:57:51,380 --> 00:57:54,122
-Hi, Bill.
-Good to see you.
1379
00:57:54,166 --> 00:57:57,299
NARRATOR: Sitting side-by-side
with Tina is Bill Rataczak.
1380
00:57:57,343 --> 00:58:00,520
Rataczak was the co-pilot
of Flight 305.
1381
00:58:00,564 --> 00:58:03,610
He handled communications from
the cockpit during the crime
1382
00:58:03,654 --> 00:58:06,352
and spoke for the crew
in the immediate aftermath.
1383
00:58:06,395 --> 00:58:08,223
We felt he...
1384
00:58:08,267 --> 00:58:11,705
was assured that we were
honoring his requests,
1385
00:58:11,749 --> 00:58:14,186
and therefore,
we made no attempt
1386
00:58:14,229 --> 00:58:18,233
to impede his, uh...
the completion of his, uh,
1387
00:58:18,277 --> 00:58:20,018
mission, if you will.
1388
00:58:20,061 --> 00:58:22,368
NARRATOR: Although Bill Rataczak
has declined to speak
1389
00:58:22,411 --> 00:58:24,065
about Cooper for more
than a decade,
1390
00:58:24,109 --> 00:58:28,026
like Tina, he has agreed
to this one final interview
1391
00:58:28,069 --> 00:58:29,897
to ensure that there's
an accurate record
1392
00:58:29,941 --> 00:58:32,030
of what happened that night.
1393
00:58:32,073 --> 00:58:33,858
RATACZAK: I ain't gonna give
no more interviews
1394
00:58:33,901 --> 00:58:35,903
and talk about this thing.
1395
00:58:35,947 --> 00:58:38,384
It's not that I'm afraid to,
I'm just tired of it.
1396
00:58:38,427 --> 00:58:42,519
It's 44 years in the making,
and it's time to put it to bed.
1397
00:58:42,562 --> 00:58:44,564
JENSEN: The most important thing
during an investigation
1398
00:58:44,608 --> 00:58:47,088
is to get to
a first-person source.
1399
00:58:47,132 --> 00:58:50,091
So the fact that the FBI
is closing this case
1400
00:58:50,135 --> 00:58:51,658
makes it that much
more important
1401
00:58:51,702 --> 00:58:54,008
for us to be able to go
and talk to these people
1402
00:58:54,052 --> 00:58:56,315
who interacted with him
on the plane,
1403
00:58:56,358 --> 00:58:58,796
to get their final thoughts
about what happened that night,
1404
00:58:58,839 --> 00:59:02,800
to talk to the people that had
the most time with this man.
1405
00:59:02,843 --> 00:59:05,629
What was he like in general?
1406
00:59:05,672 --> 00:59:08,936
MUCKLOW: I think, at first,
he was very, um,
1407
00:59:08,980 --> 00:59:13,419
cautious and careful
with the whole crew.
1408
00:59:13,462 --> 00:59:16,378
Um, he...
1409
00:59:16,422 --> 00:59:18,990
was not a horrible person.
1410
00:59:19,033 --> 00:59:20,644
He didn't yell,
he didn't scream.
1411
00:59:20,687 --> 00:59:24,604
There wasn't unusual behavior.
1412
00:59:24,648 --> 00:59:28,434
Um, he didn't seem
to have delusional or paranoid
1413
00:59:28,477 --> 00:59:31,393
kind of ideation
1414
00:59:31,437 --> 00:59:33,831
He had an agenda,
1415
00:59:33,874 --> 00:59:38,879
and-and I kind of conveyed that
to the cockpit.
1416
00:59:38,923 --> 00:59:44,581
And I think it was at that point
that he opened the briefcase
1417
00:59:44,624 --> 00:59:46,408
and explained.
1418
00:59:46,452 --> 00:59:48,367
There were these red cylinders
1419
00:59:48,410 --> 00:59:52,806
and, uh, wires running out,
and one was already
1420
00:59:52,850 --> 00:59:54,765
connected
to the battery terminal,
1421
00:59:54,808 --> 00:59:57,071
and the other side
was not connected.
1422
00:59:57,115 --> 01:00:00,292
He explained that
1423
01:00:00,335 --> 01:00:04,035
if he connected them
to the battery,
1424
01:00:04,078 --> 01:00:05,602
that it would complete
the circuit
1425
01:00:05,645 --> 01:00:07,386
and detonate the bomb.
1426
01:00:07,429 --> 01:00:09,562
What feeling was running
through you at the time?
1427
01:00:09,606 --> 01:00:13,827
The first thought
that came to my mind was, uh,
1428
01:00:13,871 --> 01:00:16,743
"Okay, bomb.
1429
01:00:16,787 --> 01:00:18,571
"Depressurization.
1430
01:00:18,615 --> 01:00:21,182
"Okay, what is gonna happen
in the cabin?
1431
01:00:21,226 --> 01:00:22,923
"What are the people
gonna have to deal with?
1432
01:00:22,967 --> 01:00:25,230
What am I gonna have to do
to take care of the people?"
1433
01:00:25,273 --> 01:00:27,101
And then, all of the sudden,
1434
01:00:27,145 --> 01:00:30,670
it dawned on me that
I was sitting next to him,
1435
01:00:30,714 --> 01:00:33,281
and that if there was
an explosion,
1436
01:00:33,325 --> 01:00:39,200
I was going to be pulled out
with him.
1437
01:00:39,244 --> 01:00:41,376
MUCKLOW:
The first thought
1438
01:00:41,420 --> 01:00:44,771
that came to my mind was, uh,
1439
01:00:44,815 --> 01:00:47,295
"Okay, bomb.
1440
01:00:47,339 --> 01:00:48,993
"Depressurization.
1441
01:00:49,036 --> 01:00:51,865
"Okay, what is gonna happen
in the cabin?
1442
01:00:51,909 --> 01:00:54,433
What am I gonna have
to deal with?"
1443
01:00:54,476 --> 01:00:56,348
NARRATOR: After decades
of remaining silent,
1444
01:00:56,391 --> 01:00:59,743
Northwest 305
flight attendant Tina Mucklow
1445
01:00:59,786 --> 01:01:02,006
and co-pilot Bill Rataczak
are talking
1446
01:01:02,049 --> 01:01:04,922
to former FBI Assistant Director
Tom Fuentes
1447
01:01:04,965 --> 01:01:08,055
and crime writer Billy Jensen.
1448
01:01:08,099 --> 01:01:11,232
I wanted to run, but on a 727,
1449
01:01:11,276 --> 01:01:13,800
there isn't any place to run.
1450
01:01:13,844 --> 01:01:15,802
NARRATOR:
Prompted by the FBI's decision
1451
01:01:15,846 --> 01:01:19,197
to administratively close
the 45-year-old case,
1452
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:21,590
Rataczak and Mucklow are giving
one last interview
1453
01:01:21,634 --> 01:01:25,029
about the night their flight
from Portland to Seattle
1454
01:01:25,072 --> 01:01:27,640
was hijacked by the man
known as D.B. Cooper.
1455
01:01:27,684 --> 01:01:29,990
MUCKLOW:
At that point,
1456
01:01:30,034 --> 01:01:34,299
I really just, uh, prayed
for the safety of the passengers
1457
01:01:34,342 --> 01:01:38,520
and, um,
and for the hijacker as well.
1458
01:01:40,609 --> 01:01:42,873
NARRATOR: Tina Mucklow was
responsible for 36 passengers
1459
01:01:42,916 --> 01:01:45,484
on the flight to Seattle,
1460
01:01:45,527 --> 01:01:49,096
and because she kept calm,
none of them had any idea
1461
01:01:49,140 --> 01:01:52,012
that there was a man onboard
threatening their lives.
1462
01:01:55,059 --> 01:01:57,757
When the 727 touched down
in Portland,
1463
01:01:57,801 --> 01:02:00,934
Cooper demanded that Tina serve
as the go-between
1464
01:02:00,978 --> 01:02:03,937
with the authorities charged
with meeting his demands.
1465
01:02:03,981 --> 01:02:08,637
Tina made four trips to retrieve
the $200,000 in ransom money
1466
01:02:08,681 --> 01:02:10,683
and four parachutes.
1467
01:02:10,727 --> 01:02:13,164
JENSEN: What was it like
getting off the plane
1468
01:02:13,207 --> 01:02:16,210
and knowing that you had to go
back on the plane?
1469
01:02:16,254 --> 01:02:18,647
MUCKLOW:
It was my job.
1470
01:02:18,691 --> 01:02:20,998
Um, and the one thing
I do remember,
1471
01:02:21,041 --> 01:02:25,263
and I don't know who it was--
whoever handed me the money, um,
1472
01:02:25,306 --> 01:02:27,395
said to me, "Are you okay?"
1473
01:02:27,439 --> 01:02:30,007
And I said, "Yes, I'll be okay."
1474
01:02:30,050 --> 01:02:32,313
And-and I went back
on the airplane.
1475
01:02:36,404 --> 01:02:38,058
JENSEN: You give it to him.
What happens?
1476
01:02:38,102 --> 01:02:41,801
RATACZAK: He wanted $200,000
in a knapsack.
1477
01:02:41,845 --> 01:02:45,544
The bank put it
into a satchel bag.
1478
01:02:45,587 --> 01:02:47,720
MUCKLOW: So when he saw
the laundry bag,
1479
01:02:47,764 --> 01:02:50,027
he was upset.
1480
01:02:50,070 --> 01:02:51,942
RATACZAK: I could hear him
over the radio.
1481
01:02:51,985 --> 01:02:53,813
"I wanted that in a knapsack!"
1482
01:02:53,857 --> 01:02:55,815
And so we thought
that maybe that
1483
01:02:55,859 --> 01:02:57,077
was gonna be the end of it
right there,
1484
01:02:57,121 --> 01:02:58,818
if he had a death wish.
1485
01:02:58,862 --> 01:03:00,994
JENSEN:
After you bring him the money,
1486
01:03:01,038 --> 01:03:03,910
uh, do you,
is that when they say
1487
01:03:03,954 --> 01:03:05,694
that people can get
off the plane?
1488
01:03:05,738 --> 01:03:08,175
MUCKLOW: I know we asked
if the passengers
1489
01:03:08,219 --> 01:03:11,962
could get off now, um,
and he said yes.
1490
01:03:13,398 --> 01:03:15,182
RATACZAK:
The scene is this:
1491
01:03:15,226 --> 01:03:17,445
three pilots in the cockpit,
1492
01:03:17,489 --> 01:03:19,621
one hijacker in the back
of the airplane,
1493
01:03:19,665 --> 01:03:22,842
Tina moving back and forth
the airplane,
1494
01:03:22,886 --> 01:03:24,975
and the other two
flight attendants right outside
1495
01:03:25,018 --> 01:03:26,759
the cockpit door.
1496
01:03:26,803 --> 01:03:29,196
So I thought that this was
a good time
1497
01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:30,589
to tell those other two girls
1498
01:03:30,632 --> 01:03:32,460
the next time Tina left
the airplane
1499
01:03:32,504 --> 01:03:36,247
to tell Tina to stay out
and they stay out also.
1500
01:03:36,290 --> 01:03:38,118
This is crucial,
1501
01:03:38,162 --> 01:03:40,860
because if they had gone
out of that airplane with Tina,
1502
01:03:40,904 --> 01:03:42,340
and they all three
had stayed off,
1503
01:03:42,383 --> 01:03:45,647
we could've packed our bag,
1504
01:03:45,691 --> 01:03:48,128
opened the door and walked down
the same stairway they did,
1505
01:03:48,172 --> 01:03:49,869
because the only way
he would've seen us
1506
01:03:49,913 --> 01:03:52,306
is if he'd have gotten
on all four
1507
01:03:52,350 --> 01:03:55,875
and put his head under
to see us up in first class
1508
01:03:55,919 --> 01:03:57,616
coming out of the cockpit.
1509
01:03:57,659 --> 01:04:00,010
FUENTES: If there is any
possibility of leaving Cooper
1510
01:04:00,053 --> 01:04:02,882
all to himself, that goes
from a hostage situation.
1511
01:04:02,926 --> 01:04:05,102
Then it becomes
what's identified
1512
01:04:05,145 --> 01:04:07,408
as a barricaded subject
situation.
1513
01:04:07,452 --> 01:04:10,063
And the approach for that
is a whole different situation.
1514
01:04:10,107 --> 01:04:11,586
They can introduce tear gas.
1515
01:04:11,630 --> 01:04:13,153
They can do any number
of things.
1516
01:04:13,197 --> 01:04:15,329
JENSEN: We might not even be
talking about this
1517
01:04:15,373 --> 01:04:17,114
45 years later.
1518
01:04:17,157 --> 01:04:18,593
D.B. Cooper would've been
Dan Cooper.
1519
01:04:18,637 --> 01:04:20,334
He'd be rotting in a jail cell,
1520
01:04:20,378 --> 01:04:24,730
just a footnote in the annals
of American crime.
1521
01:04:24,773 --> 01:04:26,558
Andy was monitoring fueling.
1522
01:04:26,601 --> 01:04:28,473
Tina's making the trips up,
1523
01:04:28,516 --> 01:04:29,953
but she was making
her last trip out,
1524
01:04:29,996 --> 01:04:32,738
coming back up
when Andy told me,
1525
01:04:32,781 --> 01:04:36,916
"Bill, the other two girls
are still here."
1526
01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:39,049
And we knew that it was
Tina's last trip.
1527
01:04:39,092 --> 01:04:41,660
The co-pilot said,
1528
01:04:41,703 --> 01:04:44,358
"You better get
the hell out now."
1529
01:04:44,402 --> 01:04:46,665
So I left without Tina.
1530
01:04:46,708 --> 01:04:51,235
And that's when he decided...
to keep her
1531
01:04:51,278 --> 01:04:56,066
because he was getting
suspicious at everything.
1532
01:04:56,109 --> 01:04:57,806
RATACZAK: Scotty said,
"What do you think?
1533
01:04:57,850 --> 01:04:59,156
"Should we just get
out of the airplane
1534
01:04:59,199 --> 01:05:00,897
and leave her back there?"
1535
01:05:00,940 --> 01:05:03,421
And I told him,
"I can't, in good faith,
1536
01:05:03,464 --> 01:05:04,813
leave Tina back there alone."
1537
01:05:04,857 --> 01:05:07,947
And he said, "Okay.
1538
01:05:07,991 --> 01:05:09,079
Andy, what do you think?"
1539
01:05:09,122 --> 01:05:10,210
Andy said, "Well, I'm with Bill.
1540
01:05:10,254 --> 01:05:12,212
I want to stay, too."
1541
01:05:12,256 --> 01:05:13,866
Scotty said,
"That's good enough for me."
1542
01:05:13,910 --> 01:05:15,520
So we agreed to stay.
1543
01:05:15,563 --> 01:05:19,567
And we took off
into the darkness.
1544
01:05:19,611 --> 01:05:22,266
NARRATOR: Flight 305
headed out of Seattle
1545
01:05:22,309 --> 01:05:23,876
bound for Mexico City.
1546
01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:25,356
Per Cooper's demands,
1547
01:05:25,399 --> 01:05:27,793
the 727 would fly
at a low altitude
1548
01:05:27,836 --> 01:05:29,534
with the flaps down.
1549
01:05:29,577 --> 01:05:31,449
That meant the plane
would burn more fuel,
1550
01:05:31,492 --> 01:05:33,886
and therefore require
a refueling stop.
1551
01:05:33,930 --> 01:05:36,062
Reno was the agreed-upon
destination.
1552
01:05:36,106 --> 01:05:39,326
RATACZAK: He wanted us to fly
at 10,000 feet.
1553
01:05:39,370 --> 01:05:42,329
We were really only about
5,000 feet above the ground,
1554
01:05:42,373 --> 01:05:43,896
because that's where
the mountain ranges
1555
01:05:43,940 --> 01:05:45,550
were starting to come up.
1556
01:05:45,593 --> 01:05:47,117
FUENTES: So you're 10,000 feet
above sea level,
1557
01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:49,162
but the ground is rising
below you.
1558
01:05:49,206 --> 01:05:51,208
RATACZAK:
That's exactly right, Tom.
1559
01:05:51,251 --> 01:05:53,558
And we were flying
in the overcast,
1560
01:05:53,601 --> 01:05:55,603
and we were getting ice
on our wings,
1561
01:05:55,647 --> 01:05:57,605
we were getting ice
on the cockpit window.
1562
01:05:57,649 --> 01:06:00,260
And that will destroy the lift
on an airplane,
1563
01:06:00,304 --> 01:06:02,262
and all we could think about
is that
1564
01:06:02,306 --> 01:06:05,048
we're losing our aerodynamics
on that wing.
1565
01:06:05,091 --> 01:06:07,006
JENSEN:
They had a very good chance
1566
01:06:07,050 --> 01:06:08,442
of falling out of the sky.
1567
01:06:08,486 --> 01:06:10,879
They were flying so low,
just 5,000 feet
1568
01:06:10,923 --> 01:06:13,143
above the ground, and the ice,
1569
01:06:13,186 --> 01:06:15,319
the fog,
everything was piling up.
1570
01:06:15,362 --> 01:06:18,452
So who knew if the bomb
was real, but this ice was real.
1571
01:06:18,496 --> 01:06:22,021
Now it was
an entirely empty cabin
1572
01:06:22,065 --> 01:06:24,110
with just you and him.
1573
01:06:24,154 --> 01:06:28,593
I was gonna stay back there
and open the back door.
1574
01:06:28,636 --> 01:06:30,551
NARRATOR:
According to Cooper's demands,
1575
01:06:30,595 --> 01:06:34,729
the crew was to lower
the 727's aft stairs midflight.
1576
01:06:34,773 --> 01:06:37,341
RATACZAK: But we didn't know
whether or not
1577
01:06:37,384 --> 01:06:41,345
that door opening was gonna
cause this air to escape.
1578
01:06:41,388 --> 01:06:45,001
We didn't know
whether you would be
1579
01:06:45,044 --> 01:06:47,699
-sucked out of the airplane.
-[bell dings]
1580
01:06:47,742 --> 01:06:50,267
So I got on the line,
and I said,
1581
01:06:50,310 --> 01:06:52,182
"Tina, here's what
I want you to do.
1582
01:06:52,225 --> 01:06:54,314
"We have escape ropes
that are in the overhead."
1583
01:06:54,358 --> 01:06:55,924
So I told her that,
"We'll cut a piece
1584
01:06:55,968 --> 01:06:58,318
"of that rope off,
and then I want you to put
1585
01:06:58,362 --> 01:07:00,886
"pillows around your stomach,
tie that rope
1586
01:07:00,929 --> 01:07:04,150
around your stomach,
and tie it to one of the legs."
1587
01:07:04,194 --> 01:07:06,544
So I told her that we'll have
Andy bring a rope back.
1588
01:07:06,587 --> 01:07:08,459
You had that phone,
and you squeezed it
1589
01:07:08,502 --> 01:07:10,852
-so that we could hear
what was going on. -Yes.
1590
01:07:10,896 --> 01:07:13,725
"No one's coming back here,"
he said.
1591
01:07:13,768 --> 01:07:16,597
"Okay, in that case, Tina,
what I want you to do
1592
01:07:16,641 --> 01:07:18,077
"is open up
one of the parachutes
1593
01:07:18,121 --> 01:07:20,471
"and cut some
of those nylon cords
1594
01:07:20,514 --> 01:07:23,517
"and wrap them around the chair
and make that line
1595
01:07:23,561 --> 01:07:25,650
only as long as to you
to the door."
1596
01:07:25,693 --> 01:07:28,783
MUCKLOW: At that point,
he had said to me,
1597
01:07:28,827 --> 01:07:30,176
"You can go forward."
1598
01:07:30,220 --> 01:07:32,396
And I didn't ask any questions.
1599
01:07:32,439 --> 01:07:36,269
I just said "thank you"
and "good-bye."
1600
01:07:36,313 --> 01:07:40,317
Coming through the cockpit door
was just an amazing thing.
1601
01:07:40,360 --> 01:07:43,189
That was the crew, and I guess,
1602
01:07:43,233 --> 01:07:46,540
whether you're thinking real
or you're not thinking real,
1603
01:07:46,584 --> 01:07:49,195
there's a sense of,
"Okay, now it's okay.
1604
01:07:49,239 --> 01:07:51,110
I'm safe." You know.
1605
01:07:51,154 --> 01:07:53,286
RATACZAK: She did such
a marvelous job of being
1606
01:07:53,330 --> 01:07:55,854
the middle cog in the wheel
of this,
1607
01:07:55,897 --> 01:07:58,204
uh, unfortunate incident.
1608
01:07:58,248 --> 01:08:00,250
I mean, when she came
through that door...
1609
01:08:03,340 --> 01:08:05,342
[crying]:
...it was big-time.
1610
01:08:10,086 --> 01:08:11,565
Yeah. [chuckles]
1611
01:08:11,609 --> 01:08:13,654
That was a long time ago, Bill.
1612
01:08:13,698 --> 01:08:15,874
-[laughs]
-I know, but, um...
1613
01:08:15,917 --> 01:08:17,528
a long time...
1614
01:08:17,571 --> 01:08:19,443
My long-term memory
isn't quite as bad
1615
01:08:19,486 --> 01:08:21,053
as my short-term memory.
1616
01:08:21,097 --> 01:08:23,751
And I remember
the job you did, Tina.
1617
01:08:23,795 --> 01:08:26,580
It was terrific.
1618
01:08:26,624 --> 01:08:29,844
She was the key.
1619
01:08:29,888 --> 01:08:31,803
JENSEN:
I mean, hearing Tina Mucklow
1620
01:08:31,846 --> 01:08:33,631
and Bill Rataczak
tell the story,
1621
01:08:33,674 --> 01:08:35,372
it turns it from a story
1622
01:08:35,415 --> 01:08:38,026
that you tell amongst
your friends,
1623
01:08:38,070 --> 01:08:39,158
that it's a parlor game--
who did this,
1624
01:08:39,202 --> 01:08:40,551
who was D.B. Cooper--
1625
01:08:40,594 --> 01:08:42,335
and it turns it
into a real crime
1626
01:08:42,379 --> 01:08:44,990
with real victims
and also real heroes.
1627
01:08:45,033 --> 01:08:47,427
FUENTES:
You were aware,
1628
01:08:47,471 --> 01:08:49,125
in your mind, at least,
that there's a possibility
1629
01:08:49,168 --> 01:08:51,083
he's going to jump
out that back stairway.
1630
01:08:51,127 --> 01:08:52,563
RATACZAK:
Yes.
1631
01:08:52,606 --> 01:08:54,434
Well, pretty soon,
I got an indication
1632
01:08:54,478 --> 01:08:56,871
on the annunciator panel
that the aft door is open.
1633
01:08:56,915 --> 01:08:59,352
All of a sudden, he's picked up
the interphone and he said,
1634
01:08:59,396 --> 01:09:00,745
"They can't get
the stairs down."
1635
01:09:00,788 --> 01:09:02,877
I said, "Well, stand by,
just a minute."
1636
01:09:02,921 --> 01:09:05,837
So I contacted Paul Soderlind,
who was our
1637
01:09:05,880 --> 01:09:08,274
Director of Flight Operations,
and he said, "Um, Bill,
1638
01:09:08,318 --> 01:09:11,930
slow the airplane down
to the marked bug."
1639
01:09:11,973 --> 01:09:15,151
That's our final approach speed
plus five knots.
1640
01:09:15,194 --> 01:09:17,892
So we're about 15 knots
above the stall speed.
1641
01:09:17,936 --> 01:09:19,894
Remember the ice building up
on the center?
1642
01:09:19,938 --> 01:09:21,505
I was sitting
a little bit closer
1643
01:09:21,548 --> 01:09:23,333
to the edge of my seat then,
1644
01:09:23,376 --> 01:09:26,205
and I think all of us were,
because we weren't sure,
1645
01:09:26,249 --> 01:09:29,339
we slow this airplane down,
now that-that icy condition
1646
01:09:29,382 --> 01:09:32,429
taking away the aerodynamics
of that wing,
1647
01:09:32,472 --> 01:09:34,692
now we're coming down
to meet it.
1648
01:09:34,735 --> 01:09:38,043
So, uh, we slowed it down,
and so I got back on the P.A.,
1649
01:09:38,086 --> 01:09:40,785
and I said "All right,
we've slowed the airplane down.
1650
01:09:40,828 --> 01:09:42,134
"You should be able
to open the door now."
1651
01:09:42,178 --> 01:09:44,092
And that's the last
we heard of him.
1652
01:09:44,136 --> 01:09:45,485
[alarm beeping]
1653
01:09:45,529 --> 01:09:48,053
We felt this bump
in the cabin causing
1654
01:09:48,096 --> 01:09:51,056
increased pressure in our ears,
and we also saw the indication
1655
01:09:51,099 --> 01:09:53,928
on the engineer's panel.
1656
01:09:53,972 --> 01:09:56,279
NARRATOR: Weeks later,
Northwest flight operations
1657
01:09:56,322 --> 01:09:58,324
would conduct tests
that confirm that
1658
01:09:58,368 --> 01:10:01,284
when the hijacker jumped,
it caused the stairs to rebound,
1659
01:10:01,327 --> 01:10:03,111
much like a diving board,
1660
01:10:03,155 --> 01:10:06,376
sending a pressure wave
through the plane.
1661
01:10:06,419 --> 01:10:08,552
RATACZAK: I called
the air traffic control,
1662
01:10:08,595 --> 01:10:10,989
and I said, "You might want
to mark this down.
1663
01:10:11,032 --> 01:10:13,209
I think our friend
just took leave of us."
1664
01:10:13,252 --> 01:10:17,169
Now, we think that
he has left the airplane,
1665
01:10:17,213 --> 01:10:19,127
but we don't know for certain.
1666
01:10:19,171 --> 01:10:22,043
We were told that there were
going to be FBI agents,
1667
01:10:22,087 --> 01:10:25,133
uh, county deputies, sheriffs,
local police,
1668
01:10:25,177 --> 01:10:27,005
they were gonna be
all over the airport.
1669
01:10:29,181 --> 01:10:32,924
MUCKLOW: You know, I was one of
the first ones off, and, um,
1670
01:10:32,967 --> 01:10:35,796
you know, in training,
we had always been taught
1671
01:10:35,840 --> 01:10:37,407
if you're ever
in an emergency procedure,
1672
01:10:37,450 --> 01:10:40,148
you stand a safe distance away
from the airplane,
1673
01:10:40,192 --> 01:10:42,020
but in a place
where people can see you.
1674
01:10:42,063 --> 01:10:44,718
So, you know, the obvious thing
1675
01:10:44,762 --> 01:10:46,633
is to go to
one of the runway lights.
1676
01:10:46,677 --> 01:10:48,940
So I remember one of the cars
pulled up
1677
01:10:48,983 --> 01:10:50,811
and said, "Who are you?"
1678
01:10:50,855 --> 01:10:52,335
And I said,
"Well, I'm one of the crew."
1679
01:10:52,378 --> 01:10:54,989
-[laughter]
-And we were laughing,
1680
01:10:55,033 --> 01:10:57,644
but after I got in the car
is when I broke down.
1681
01:10:57,688 --> 01:11:01,561
[sighs] And I just sobbed
for a couple minutes.
1682
01:11:01,605 --> 01:11:05,086
And I think Bill said,
"It's okay. It's over now."
1683
01:11:05,130 --> 01:11:08,089
So, you haven't done, uh,
1684
01:11:08,133 --> 01:11:11,310
interviews in decades,
but in your personal life,
1685
01:11:11,354 --> 01:11:13,138
do you think about it often?
1686
01:11:13,181 --> 01:11:14,618
MUCKLOW:
I couldn't tell you
1687
01:11:14,661 --> 01:11:18,491
the number of letters
and information and mail
1688
01:11:18,535 --> 01:11:21,451
and telephone calls
and what have you
1689
01:11:21,494 --> 01:11:23,279
that I've gotten.
1690
01:11:23,322 --> 01:11:27,239
People have felt that
I was trying to escape it,
1691
01:11:27,283 --> 01:11:29,894
or that I wasn't able
to handle it,
1692
01:11:29,937 --> 01:11:33,506
or that I was very fragile.
1693
01:11:33,550 --> 01:11:37,423
I think I'm just pretty normal.
1694
01:11:37,467 --> 01:11:40,861
FUENTES: Tina came in here
and very calmly and coolly
1695
01:11:40,905 --> 01:11:44,691
explained what she did that day
and what she's done since.
1696
01:11:44,735 --> 01:11:47,738
And I found her to be
totally believable,
1697
01:11:47,781 --> 01:11:51,481
very articulate,
very sane, very stable,
1698
01:11:51,524 --> 01:11:53,091
and a great witness.
1699
01:11:53,134 --> 01:11:54,527
MUCKLOW:
I think the thing has been
1700
01:11:54,571 --> 01:11:57,008
when I've been pressured
or almost felt
1701
01:11:57,051 --> 01:12:00,054
stalked sometimes by individuals
1702
01:12:00,098 --> 01:12:03,319
who just didn't seem
to understand no,
1703
01:12:03,362 --> 01:12:06,844
um, I've kind of wanted
to say to them,
1704
01:12:06,887 --> 01:12:08,976
you know, "Get a life."
1705
01:12:09,020 --> 01:12:10,413
[chuckles]:
You know?
1706
01:12:10,456 --> 01:12:12,676
This is 40-some years ago.
1707
01:12:12,719 --> 01:12:14,808
NARRATOR: Once Bill and Tina
finished telling
1708
01:12:14,852 --> 01:12:17,637
their story of the night
of the hijacking,
1709
01:12:17,681 --> 01:12:19,465
a story they have not told
in decades,
1710
01:12:19,509 --> 01:12:22,468
Fuentes and Jensen have
one more question--
1711
01:12:22,512 --> 01:12:25,602
one that may or may not support
Tom Colbert's theory
1712
01:12:25,645 --> 01:12:28,561
that one-time suspect
Robert Rackstraw
1713
01:12:28,605 --> 01:12:31,390
could be D.B. Cooper.
1714
01:12:31,434 --> 01:12:33,174
JENSEN: Have you ever seen
this guy, this picture?
1715
01:12:33,218 --> 01:12:35,002
Or does he look like
this could've been
1716
01:12:35,046 --> 01:12:37,353
the guy that you were
sitting next to?
1717
01:12:42,488 --> 01:12:44,490
FUENTES:
Hey, guys.
1718
01:12:44,534 --> 01:12:47,101
NARRATOR: Former FBI
Assistant Director Tom Fuentes
1719
01:12:47,145 --> 01:12:50,104
and crime writer Billy Jensen
are back in Los Angeles...
1720
01:12:50,148 --> 01:12:51,802
-Hi, Tom.
-Good seeing you.
1721
01:12:51,845 --> 01:12:54,021
-Jim, good to see you.
-Tom, good to see you.
1722
01:12:54,065 --> 01:12:56,110
-I hope. -NARRATOR:
...to share their news
1723
01:12:56,154 --> 01:12:58,286
from the FBI
and to tell journalists
1724
01:12:58,330 --> 01:13:00,680
Tom Colbert and Jim Forbes
1725
01:13:00,724 --> 01:13:02,421
Tina Mucklow's verdict
on the picture
1726
01:13:02,465 --> 01:13:05,250
of the man
they believe is D.B. Cooper.
1727
01:13:05,293 --> 01:13:07,121
FUENTES:
Well, we're here to, uh,
1728
01:13:07,165 --> 01:13:10,298
bring you up to date on some of
the latest work that we've done,
1729
01:13:10,342 --> 01:13:13,127
uh, in this case
and the investigation,
1730
01:13:13,171 --> 01:13:15,521
and particularly
a couple of things
1731
01:13:15,565 --> 01:13:17,654
that we learned, uh,
earlier this week
1732
01:13:17,697 --> 01:13:19,482
from the FBI in Seattle.
1733
01:13:19,525 --> 01:13:23,486
The FBI is transitioning
the case right now,
1734
01:13:23,529 --> 01:13:26,010
and they were in the process
of packing up the boxes
1735
01:13:26,053 --> 01:13:28,926
and the evidence to be shipped
back to Washington.
1736
01:13:28,969 --> 01:13:30,580
So "transition" means kaput?
1737
01:13:30,623 --> 01:13:32,538
"Transition" means that the case
will be closed.
1738
01:13:32,582 --> 01:13:34,540
Which will open the files?
1739
01:13:34,584 --> 01:13:37,456
There's a variety of rules
that require them
1740
01:13:37,500 --> 01:13:41,068
to still protect large portions
of the investigation.
1741
01:13:41,112 --> 01:13:42,853
However, they gave me,
1742
01:13:42,896 --> 01:13:44,550
you know,
as they referred to it,
1743
01:13:44,594 --> 01:13:47,118
unprecedented access
to information
1744
01:13:47,161 --> 01:13:50,426
about the investigation,
and, um,
1745
01:13:50,469 --> 01:13:52,689
basically with the understanding
that I would not say
1746
01:13:52,732 --> 01:13:56,606
what it specifically was,
but enough to tell me, um,
1747
01:13:56,649 --> 01:13:59,130
how diligent the case
was investigated
1748
01:13:59,173 --> 01:14:00,305
going back to day one.
1749
01:14:00,348 --> 01:14:01,872
Now, we talked to, uh,
1750
01:14:01,915 --> 01:14:04,048
Curtis Eng, the case agent
that you met with
1751
01:14:04,091 --> 01:14:05,745
when you went up there,
1752
01:14:05,789 --> 01:14:08,618
and Curtis remembers
the meeting with you very well.
1753
01:14:08,661 --> 01:14:10,402
JENSEN: Do you remember
meeting Tom Colbert?
1754
01:14:10,446 --> 01:14:12,143
ENG:
Yes, he came
1755
01:14:12,186 --> 01:14:15,755
to the Seattle division
a couple years back.
1756
01:14:15,799 --> 01:14:19,280
And what was your impression of
Colbert and his investigation?
1757
01:14:19,324 --> 01:14:22,109
Although his presentation
was thorough,
1758
01:14:22,153 --> 01:14:24,895
and it was detailed,
1759
01:14:24,938 --> 01:14:30,248
it didn't prove that his suspect
was Dan Cooper.
1760
01:14:30,291 --> 01:14:33,033
I can't go
on nice presentations.
1761
01:14:33,077 --> 01:14:35,035
I have to go by evidence,
1762
01:14:35,079 --> 01:14:39,387
and that presentation
didn't give me
1763
01:14:39,431 --> 01:14:41,085
any additional evidence
1764
01:14:41,128 --> 01:14:43,740
that I could use
to prosecute the case.
1765
01:14:43,783 --> 01:14:47,352
COLBERT: So, in essence,
we have nothing specific
1766
01:14:47,395 --> 01:14:50,790
shooting down any of
the 93 pieces of evidence.
1767
01:14:50,834 --> 01:14:52,749
FUENTES: No, that's-- you know,
they're not gonna do that.
1768
01:14:52,792 --> 01:14:54,664
They're not gonna go
point by point
1769
01:14:54,707 --> 01:14:56,448
and tell you where you're right
or where you're wrong,
1770
01:14:56,492 --> 01:14:58,581
or try this
or go that direction.
1771
01:14:58,624 --> 01:15:01,497
They already have
enough compelling reasons
1772
01:15:01,540 --> 01:15:05,065
to indicate why he's no longer
a suspect to them.
1773
01:15:05,109 --> 01:15:06,676
JENSEN:
The meeting with the FBI
1774
01:15:06,719 --> 01:15:08,591
wasn't the most compelling thing
that we heard.
1775
01:15:08,634 --> 01:15:10,288
We were able to sit down
1776
01:15:10,331 --> 01:15:12,464
with Bill Rataczak
and Tina Mucklow.
1777
01:15:14,640 --> 01:15:16,686
Have you ever seen this guy,
this picture?
1778
01:15:16,729 --> 01:15:18,252
[Mucklow sighs]
1779
01:15:18,296 --> 01:15:20,690
I've seen so many pictures.
1780
01:15:20,733 --> 01:15:22,561
It would be very hard
for me to say,
1781
01:15:22,605 --> 01:15:24,041
"Yes, I've seen it,
no, I haven't."
1782
01:15:24,084 --> 01:15:25,608
JENSEN: Do you remember
what his name is?
1783
01:15:25,651 --> 01:15:27,261
No.
1784
01:15:27,305 --> 01:15:30,743
But, you know, I...
1785
01:15:30,787 --> 01:15:33,006
JENSEN: Or does he look like
this could've been the guy
1786
01:15:33,050 --> 01:15:34,617
that you were sitting next to?
1787
01:15:34,660 --> 01:15:36,662
MUCKLOW:
No, I don't think so.
1788
01:15:36,706 --> 01:15:38,403
I don't think so.
1789
01:15:41,275 --> 01:15:43,147
Um... [sighs]
1790
01:15:44,496 --> 01:15:46,585
No. Do you know who he is?
1791
01:15:46,629 --> 01:15:48,413
-JENSEN: Yeah.
-FUENTES: Would you be willing
1792
01:15:48,456 --> 01:15:50,415
to look at this short interview
1793
01:15:50,458 --> 01:15:52,373
where he's being talked to
by the media
1794
01:15:52,417 --> 01:15:56,029
and just look at
the-the gestures that he uses,
1795
01:15:56,073 --> 01:15:58,075
the style of speech,
the tone of his voice,
1796
01:15:58,118 --> 01:16:01,252
and just see
if any of that seems like
1797
01:16:01,295 --> 01:16:02,732
maybe, possibly,
it could be him?
1798
01:16:02,775 --> 01:16:04,124
Sure.
1799
01:16:07,040 --> 01:16:08,868
INTERVIEWER [over computer]:
Are you willing to state
1800
01:16:08,912 --> 01:16:11,392
one way or the other whether
or not you're D.B. Cooper?
1801
01:16:11,436 --> 01:16:13,656
RACKSTRAW:
No, I'm afraid of heights.
1802
01:16:13,699 --> 01:16:15,962
INTERVIEWER:
You have, uh...
1803
01:16:16,006 --> 01:16:17,747
parachute training, and, uh,
1804
01:16:17,790 --> 01:16:21,054
as you mentioned yourself,
y-your background suggests
1805
01:16:21,098 --> 01:16:24,144
that you could've been
D.B. Cooper.
1806
01:16:24,188 --> 01:16:26,146
RACKSTRAW:
Could've been. Could've been.
1807
01:16:26,190 --> 01:16:27,626
INTERVIEWER: You don't want
to commit yourself
1808
01:16:27,670 --> 01:16:29,628
-one way or the other?
-RACKSTRAW: No.
1809
01:16:29,672 --> 01:16:32,718
I, uh, I can't commit myself
on something like that, Warren.
1810
01:16:32,762 --> 01:16:34,067
It's, uh, like I say.
1811
01:16:34,111 --> 01:16:36,069
Primarily I'm afraid of heights.
1812
01:16:36,113 --> 01:16:37,375
MUCKLOW:
Hmm.
1813
01:16:42,423 --> 01:16:43,903
R [over computer]: You
don't want to commit yourself
1814
01:16:43,947 --> 01:16:45,339
-one way or the other?
-RACKSTRAW: No, I, uh,
1815
01:16:45,383 --> 01:16:46,732
I can't commit myself on
something like that, Warren.
1816
01:16:46,776 --> 01:16:48,342
It's, uh, like I say.
1817
01:16:48,386 --> 01:16:50,257
Primarily I'm afraid of heights.
1818
01:16:50,301 --> 01:16:52,825
NARRATOR: Flight attendant
Tina Mucklow is looking at video
1819
01:16:52,869 --> 01:16:56,655
of onetime D.B. Cooper suspect
Robert W. Rackstraw--
1820
01:16:56,699 --> 01:17:00,006
the man Colbert
has spent five years
1821
01:17:00,050 --> 01:17:03,096
and thousands of dollars
investigating.
1822
01:17:03,140 --> 01:17:05,751
And it's primarily up
to the, uh, American people
1823
01:17:05,795 --> 01:17:07,927
someday how that comes out.
1824
01:17:09,102 --> 01:17:12,323
MUCKLOW:
Hmm.
1825
01:17:12,366 --> 01:17:14,804
I don't think so.
1826
01:17:14,847 --> 01:17:18,242
FUENTES: Well, thank you
for looking at it, and...
1827
01:17:18,285 --> 01:17:20,374
and, uh, refreshing your memory.
1828
01:17:20,418 --> 01:17:21,680
[Fuentes and Mucklow laugh]
1829
01:17:23,813 --> 01:17:26,337
FUENTES: As you could see,
she's very articulate,
1830
01:17:26,380 --> 01:17:28,252
had a great memory,
1831
01:17:28,295 --> 01:17:30,515
-and she was like, "No."
-FORBES: Well, in all candor,
1832
01:17:30,558 --> 01:17:34,911
uh, you know, I never,
ever expected either of them
1833
01:17:34,954 --> 01:17:37,000
to recognize Rackstraw
this many years later,
1834
01:17:37,043 --> 01:17:39,524
despite the trauma,
'cause of the glasses, just--
1835
01:17:39,567 --> 01:17:42,658
but also the fading of memory,
uh, not unlike Bill Mitchell.
1836
01:17:42,701 --> 01:17:44,616
-Mm-hmm.
-JENSEN: Tom?
1837
01:17:44,660 --> 01:17:46,618
I'd love to hear from
the other potential witness
1838
01:17:46,662 --> 01:17:47,967
what she thinks.
1839
01:17:48,011 --> 01:17:49,969
Did the FBI ever
approach the other
1840
01:17:50,013 --> 01:17:52,145
stewardess who saw him
with his glasses off?
1841
01:17:52,189 --> 01:17:53,930
It was always Tina
was the mythical one
1842
01:17:53,973 --> 01:17:55,975
that wasn't answering
the questions.
1843
01:17:56,019 --> 01:17:58,238
-And Tina spent the most time.
-Most time.
1844
01:17:58,282 --> 01:18:00,545
She spent four to five hours
with him, I absolutely agree.
1845
01:18:00,588 --> 01:18:02,025
I absolutely agree.
1846
01:18:02,068 --> 01:18:03,983
There is no possibility
of getting a conviction
1847
01:18:04,027 --> 01:18:07,465
when the best witness says,
"Not him."
1848
01:18:07,508 --> 01:18:10,598
I am convinced Rackstraw
is not Cooper.
1849
01:18:10,642 --> 01:18:12,426
I... I hear you.
1850
01:18:12,470 --> 01:18:14,820
I-I'm weighing what, you know,
1851
01:18:14,864 --> 01:18:17,780
four years of work is and--
for myself, five for Tom.
1852
01:18:17,823 --> 01:18:20,304
I'm weighing
what you guys are saying,
1853
01:18:20,347 --> 01:18:23,307
and... my needle just switched.
1854
01:18:23,350 --> 01:18:25,526
You know,
what-what's key to me is-is,
1855
01:18:25,570 --> 01:18:27,093
you know,
obviously that's a setback
1856
01:18:27,137 --> 01:18:28,834
that she doesn't
recognize the video.
1857
01:18:28,878 --> 01:18:30,923
I still think it's him.
1858
01:18:30,967 --> 01:18:35,449
Uh... you know, she's very
adamant, and-and that's tough.
1859
01:18:35,493 --> 01:18:37,451
But what else is it gonna take
for you to think
1860
01:18:37,495 --> 01:18:39,497
this isn't the guy?
1861
01:18:39,540 --> 01:18:41,891
I want to hear what happens
with my 93 pieces of evidence
1862
01:18:41,934 --> 01:18:44,023
with the FBI;
that's what I want to hear.
1863
01:18:44,067 --> 01:18:45,982
I want them to look at it
and tell me that
1864
01:18:46,025 --> 01:18:48,332
it's all circumstantial and, uh,
1865
01:18:48,375 --> 01:18:51,204
we can't confirm it and
it's not worth opening the case.
1866
01:18:51,248 --> 01:18:56,122
Are one of those 93 pieces of
evidence money or the parachute?
1867
01:18:56,166 --> 01:18:58,385
No, Billy,
we know that's not in there.
1868
01:18:58,429 --> 01:19:00,605
This is circumstantial, but
it's-it's... uh, testimony...
1869
01:19:00,648 --> 01:19:02,781
They're not gonna...
they're not gonna reopen it.
1870
01:19:02,825 --> 01:19:04,130
-Well, that's what I understand.
-They made it clear.
1871
01:19:04,174 --> 01:19:05,653
That's what... well...
1872
01:19:05,697 --> 01:19:07,873
JENSEN:
Of the 93 pieces
1873
01:19:07,917 --> 01:19:09,440
of information,
there's nothing in here
1874
01:19:09,483 --> 01:19:10,920
that puts him on the plane.
1875
01:19:10,963 --> 01:19:12,443
There's nothing in here
1876
01:19:12,486 --> 01:19:14,837
that even puts him
in Portland that day.
1877
01:19:14,880 --> 01:19:17,230
If the FBI is saying,
"We're not gonna look at him,"
1878
01:19:17,274 --> 01:19:18,884
if the FBI is saying, "We're not
gonna look at him
1879
01:19:18,928 --> 01:19:21,669
unless you have hard evidence,"
why keep going?
1880
01:19:21,713 --> 01:19:25,282
I got a lot
of retired federal guys I trust
1881
01:19:25,325 --> 01:19:28,546
who gave me an awful hard time
when I said I think I found
1882
01:19:28,589 --> 01:19:30,548
a Coop-- I found
a Cooper candidate,
1883
01:19:30,591 --> 01:19:32,768
didn't believe it,
and are believers.
1884
01:19:32,811 --> 01:19:35,161
And, uh, that's why
I still feel passionate
1885
01:19:35,205 --> 01:19:38,556
about all
the circumstantial we have.
1886
01:19:38,599 --> 01:19:42,473
And until the FBI looks
at this and says no,
1887
01:19:42,516 --> 01:19:44,562
I'm still a believer.
1888
01:19:44,605 --> 01:19:47,347
The thing about that is, though,
Tom and Billy were
1889
01:19:47,391 --> 01:19:49,001
-on that same edge...
-Right.
1890
01:19:49,045 --> 01:19:50,524
FORBES:
...but now they have access
1891
01:19:50,568 --> 01:19:52,135
to different information
and new information
1892
01:19:52,178 --> 01:19:54,398
that the investigators
don't have and we don't have.
1893
01:19:54,441 --> 01:19:56,313
-Yeah, yeah.
-So it speaks for itself.
1894
01:19:56,356 --> 01:19:58,271
Well, I'd like to know
what it is, you know, that's...
1895
01:19:58,315 --> 01:19:59,446
So would I.
1896
01:19:59,490 --> 01:20:01,840
Odds are, we ain't gonna.
1897
01:20:01,884 --> 01:20:03,581
-FORBES: Guys, thanks a million.
-[Colbert laughs, mutters]
1898
01:20:03,624 --> 01:20:05,191
Appreciate it.
You did what we asked
1899
01:20:05,235 --> 01:20:06,540
-you to do, you got inside.
-Thank you.
1900
01:20:06,584 --> 01:20:08,586
FORBES:
Tom has...
1901
01:20:08,629 --> 01:20:12,242
a lot more riding on this
than I do,
1902
01:20:12,285 --> 01:20:14,548
because he's so
completely invested,
1903
01:20:14,592 --> 01:20:16,420
literally and figuratively.
1904
01:20:18,204 --> 01:20:19,553
How you doing?
1905
01:20:19,597 --> 01:20:21,773
I'm doing fine,
I'm doing fine.
1906
01:20:21,817 --> 01:20:24,297
You know, that's too bad
about Tina, but, uh...
1907
01:20:24,341 --> 01:20:25,777
Too bad in what way?
1908
01:20:25,821 --> 01:20:28,040
Well-- What way? [chuckles]
1909
01:20:28,084 --> 01:20:30,434
We all wish she had
recognized him,
1910
01:20:30,477 --> 01:20:32,958
but, uh, you know,
that's-that's the...
1911
01:20:33,002 --> 01:20:35,308
If it was him, though, Tom,
if it was him.
1912
01:20:35,352 --> 01:20:38,007
JENSEN:
I don't know that Tom could ever
1913
01:20:38,050 --> 01:20:40,661
solve the D.B. Cooper case
because he is so deep
1914
01:20:40,705 --> 01:20:42,620
into that rabbit hole
with Rackstraw.
1915
01:20:42,663 --> 01:20:44,622
I don't consider
myself obsessed.
1916
01:20:44,665 --> 01:20:46,885
I really don't.
1917
01:20:46,929 --> 01:20:51,020
I believe Tina believes
what she believes,
1918
01:20:51,063 --> 01:20:54,588
just like Billy Mitchell
believes what he believes,
1919
01:20:54,632 --> 01:20:56,590
but I think they were both
very, very honest
1920
01:20:56,634 --> 01:20:58,157
on what 40 years does to them.
1921
01:20:58,201 --> 01:21:00,333
I hear you.
1922
01:21:00,377 --> 01:21:03,293
But I think, most likely,
he's not D.B. Cooper.
1923
01:21:03,336 --> 01:21:04,816
You truly don't think it's him?
1924
01:21:04,860 --> 01:21:06,470
No, no.
1925
01:21:06,513 --> 01:21:08,646
There's a time
when reality kicks in.
1926
01:21:08,689 --> 01:21:10,822
We don't bring them in
to investigate
1927
01:21:10,866 --> 01:21:12,519
to then ignore
what they have to say.
1928
01:21:12,563 --> 01:21:14,565
FORBES:
It won't be easy for me
1929
01:21:14,608 --> 01:21:16,654
to walk away whatsoever.
1930
01:21:16,697 --> 01:21:19,962
I think it'll be devastating
for Tom to have to walk away.
1931
01:21:25,706 --> 01:21:28,884
Hi, Bob. It's Billy Jensen,
uh, calling again.
1932
01:21:28,927 --> 01:21:31,364
I'd still love to hear
your side of the story
1933
01:21:31,408 --> 01:21:33,889
about what went down
with Colbert and Forbes.
1934
01:21:33,932 --> 01:21:36,326
NARRATOR: After several phone
and text conversations,
1935
01:21:36,369 --> 01:21:38,894
and a protracted negotiation,
1936
01:21:38,937 --> 01:21:42,332
Robert Rackstraw declined the
opportunity to tell his story,
1937
01:21:42,375 --> 01:21:44,943
give his version of events
during the confrontation
1938
01:21:44,987 --> 01:21:47,424
with Jim Forbes and Tom Colbert,
1939
01:21:47,467 --> 01:21:50,340
or to describe
his experience in 1979,
1940
01:21:50,383 --> 01:21:52,864
when, for a brief time,
he was the prime suspect
1941
01:21:52,908 --> 01:21:55,214
in the D.B. Cooper
investigation.
1942
01:21:55,258 --> 01:21:57,608
INTERVIEWER: Are you willing
to state, one way or the other,
1943
01:21:57,651 --> 01:21:59,653
whether or not
you're D.B. Cooper?
1944
01:21:59,697 --> 01:22:03,092
Could have been.
Could have been.
1945
01:22:03,135 --> 01:22:06,443
All right, let's, uh, let's
take an inventory of the items
1946
01:22:06,486 --> 01:22:08,401
that we're gonna send
back to headquarters.
1947
01:22:08,445 --> 01:22:12,188
NARRATOR: There have always
been two D.B. Cooper cases.
1948
01:22:12,231 --> 01:22:15,495
One of them is
officially being closed.
1949
01:22:15,539 --> 01:22:19,717
First item I have is the 1-B 20,
1950
01:22:19,760 --> 01:22:24,374
the currency
that was found in 1980.
1951
01:22:24,417 --> 01:22:27,725
-[camera clicks]
-MAN: Yup, got it, 1-B 20.
1952
01:22:27,768 --> 01:22:30,336
NARRATOR: For the past 45 years,
one investigation
1953
01:22:30,380 --> 01:22:32,817
lived in this secure
basement file room
1954
01:22:32,860 --> 01:22:35,559
of the Seattle division
of the FBI.
1955
01:22:35,602 --> 01:22:39,041
It contains the few pieces
of physical evidence
1956
01:22:39,084 --> 01:22:41,130
collected in the aftermath
of the skyjacking
1957
01:22:41,173 --> 01:22:43,697
of Northwest Flight 305,
1958
01:22:43,741 --> 01:22:46,004
and the thousands of interviews
1959
01:22:46,048 --> 01:22:50,400
that the FBI conducted in the
months and years that followed.
1960
01:22:50,443 --> 01:22:53,533
This is 1-B 7.
This is the black necktie
1961
01:22:53,577 --> 01:22:55,361
with the attached tie clip.
1962
01:22:55,405 --> 01:22:56,884
MONTOYA: During the course
of the 45-year,
1963
01:22:56,928 --> 01:22:59,844
what we call
Norjak investigation,
1964
01:22:59,887 --> 01:23:02,151
the FBI exhaustively reviewed
all credible leads,
1965
01:23:02,194 --> 01:23:05,937
utilized multiple field offices
to conduct searches,
1966
01:23:05,981 --> 01:23:08,592
collected all
available evidence,
1967
01:23:08,635 --> 01:23:10,898
interviewed all
identified witnesses.
1968
01:23:10,942 --> 01:23:13,162
So there's the original ticket.
1969
01:23:13,205 --> 01:23:16,426
MONTOYA: Over the years,
the FBI has applied numerous
1970
01:23:16,469 --> 01:23:18,863
new d innovative
investigative techniques,
1971
01:23:18,906 --> 01:23:22,214
as well as examined countless
items at the FBI laboratory.
1972
01:23:22,258 --> 01:23:25,130
Evidence obtained during
the course of the investigation
1973
01:23:25,174 --> 01:23:27,828
will now be preserved
for historical purposes
1974
01:23:27,872 --> 01:23:29,787
at FBI headquarters
in Washington D.C.
1975
01:23:29,830 --> 01:23:30,918
PHOTOGRAPHER:
Thank you.
1976
01:23:30,962 --> 01:23:33,573
MAN:
Green sheet, 1-B five.
1977
01:23:33,617 --> 01:23:35,445
The salmon pink chest parachute.
1978
01:23:35,488 --> 01:23:36,576
PHOTOGRAPHER:
And then if you guys
1979
01:23:36,620 --> 01:23:38,013
could hold it up for me, please.
1980
01:23:40,711 --> 01:23:43,192
ENG: You know, we-we can't
solve all the cases.
1981
01:23:43,235 --> 01:23:44,715
We try our best.
1982
01:23:44,758 --> 01:23:46,282
We've tried for 45 years.
1983
01:23:46,325 --> 01:23:48,066
Do a quick inventory of
1984
01:23:48,110 --> 01:23:51,026
the original notes taken
by Florence Schaffner
1985
01:23:51,069 --> 01:23:53,463
during the actual hijacking.
1986
01:23:53,506 --> 01:23:55,813
MAN:
So she took these in-flight.
1987
01:23:55,856 --> 01:23:57,684
-So she's a flight attendant?
-Mm-hmm.
1988
01:23:57,728 --> 01:23:58,990
ENG:
In this situation,
1989
01:23:59,034 --> 01:24:00,035
we can't solve it.
1990
01:24:00,078 --> 01:24:01,862
For the FBI,
1991
01:24:01,906 --> 01:24:04,561
it's not the conclusion
that we wanted,
1992
01:24:04,604 --> 01:24:07,955
but it is the conclusion
that we're presented with.
1993
01:24:07,999 --> 01:24:11,089
For us,
as the investigating agency,
1994
01:24:11,133 --> 01:24:13,091
it's time to move on.
1995
01:24:16,399 --> 01:24:18,836
NARRATOR: The other Cooper case
is an American mystery.
1996
01:24:18,879 --> 01:24:21,578
One that captivated
the imagination of the nation
1997
01:24:21,621 --> 01:24:25,799
and will continue to do so
for generations to come.
1998
01:24:25,843 --> 01:24:27,497
It began when
the press misidentified
1999
01:24:27,540 --> 01:24:31,936
passenger Dan Cooper
as skyjacker D.B. Cooper.
2000
01:24:31,979 --> 01:24:33,981
A phantom, he was given a face
2001
01:24:34,025 --> 01:24:36,549
when this iconic sketch
was released to the nation.
2002
01:24:36,593 --> 01:24:39,987
And as the decades have passed,
the myth of who he was
2003
01:24:40,031 --> 01:24:42,947
and how he got away with it
has only grown.
2004
01:24:42,990 --> 01:24:45,123
You know, the D.B. Cooper case
isn't over.
2005
01:24:45,167 --> 01:24:46,777
We're just going
to the next chapter.
2006
01:24:46,820 --> 01:24:48,779
NARRATOR:
New and old suspects
2007
01:24:48,822 --> 01:24:52,913
continue to appear and reappear.
2008
01:24:52,957 --> 01:24:54,959
CARR: It's such a great mystery,
you know, and you--
2009
01:24:55,002 --> 01:24:57,135
we-we've got almost
the whole book written
2010
01:24:57,179 --> 01:24:58,789
except the last chapter.
2011
01:24:58,832 --> 01:25:00,138
And I'm just like
everybody else, you know.
2012
01:25:00,182 --> 01:25:01,531
They get sucked into it,
2013
01:25:01,574 --> 01:25:03,315
and I want to know how it ends,
you know.
2014
01:25:03,359 --> 01:25:04,882
I was hoping that I could write
2015
01:25:04,925 --> 01:25:06,927
that last chapter,
and maybe we still can.
2016
01:25:06,971 --> 01:25:09,930
There's gonna be a wave
of information coming in
2017
01:25:09,974 --> 01:25:15,371
from people because of-of
what they see on their screens.
2018
01:25:15,414 --> 01:25:17,199
You know, the guy's probably
dead at this point, anyway,
2019
01:25:17,242 --> 01:25:18,678
so even if you did
solve the case,
2020
01:25:18,722 --> 01:25:20,376
would it really
get you anywhere?
2021
01:25:20,419 --> 01:25:22,160
Except saying you solved
the only skyjacking
2022
01:25:22,204 --> 01:25:24,554
in U.S. history that's unsolved.
2023
01:25:24,597 --> 01:25:27,383
Yeah, we don't have a trophy
to hold up on the dock and say,
2024
01:25:27,426 --> 01:25:29,167
"Look what we caught.
We got D.B. Cooper."
2025
01:25:29,211 --> 01:25:30,212
We don't have that.
2026
01:25:30,255 --> 01:25:32,170
The FBI doesn't have that.
2027
01:25:32,214 --> 01:25:34,651
But I think we've taken it
as far as we can take it,
2028
01:25:34,694 --> 01:25:36,740
and I'm ready that
we should close the case.
2029
01:25:36,783 --> 01:25:39,569
But still fascinated
by everything,
2030
01:25:39,612 --> 01:25:41,310
still ready to reopen
it in a heartbeat
2031
01:25:41,353 --> 01:25:42,485
if something new comes up.
2032
01:25:46,271 --> 01:25:48,186
FORBES:
I have no reason to push forward
2033
01:25:48,230 --> 01:25:50,145
with Bob Rackstraw right now.
2034
01:25:50,188 --> 01:25:52,277
We've all gone down
rabbit holes in our careers.
2035
01:25:52,321 --> 01:25:54,758
We've all followed leads
that don't pan out.
2036
01:25:54,801 --> 01:25:58,805
My only disappointment is
that the end of this journey
2037
01:25:58,849 --> 01:26:02,200
isn't revealing the truth,
because it's still unknown.
2038
01:26:04,289 --> 01:26:05,856
COLBERT:
I'm not gonna do a hypothetical
2039
01:26:05,899 --> 01:26:07,553
on five years of work and say,
2040
01:26:07,597 --> 01:26:09,686
"What if you got
an innocent man here?"
2041
01:26:09,729 --> 01:26:12,950
I am not gonna talk about
what if I'm wrong,
2042
01:26:12,993 --> 01:26:15,561
specifically,
how will I handle it.
2043
01:26:15,605 --> 01:26:19,217
Look, I did the best I could
based on the evidence.
2044
01:26:19,261 --> 01:26:22,307
I'm at a place where I truly
still feel it could be him.
2045
01:26:22,351 --> 01:26:23,221
INTERVIEWER: You don't want
to commit yourself
2046
01:26:23,265 --> 01:26:24,962
-one way or the other?
-No.
2047
01:26:25,005 --> 01:26:27,486
I, uh, I can't commit myself
on something like that, Warren.
2048
01:26:27,530 --> 01:26:30,315
It's, uh, like I say.
Primarily I'm afraid of heights.
2049
01:26:30,359 --> 01:26:32,578
And, uh, there's
a matter there, too.
2050
01:26:32,622 --> 01:26:35,625
You-you say, well,
with a story like that,
2051
01:26:35,668 --> 01:26:38,018
should it be fiction
or should it be fact?
2052
01:26:38,062 --> 01:26:40,847
And it's primarily up
to the, uh, American people,
2053
01:26:40,891 --> 01:26:42,458
uh, someday how that comes out.
2054
01:26:42,501 --> 01:26:44,286
Good-bye, evidence.
2055
01:26:46,244 --> 01:26:47,941
JENSEN: Despite the efforts
of the most powerful
2056
01:26:47,985 --> 01:26:50,422
investigative agency
the world has ever seen,
2057
01:26:50,466 --> 01:26:52,903
along with thousands
of amateur detectives,
2058
01:26:52,946 --> 01:26:55,862
it looks like this case
will never be solved.
2059
01:26:57,603 --> 01:27:00,084
There's very few crimes
that are like that,
2060
01:27:00,127 --> 01:27:02,260
and it's amazing.
2061
01:27:02,304 --> 01:27:05,829
This guy, for all intents
and purposes, got away with it.
2062
01:27:05,872 --> 01:27:08,353
We have no idea who he was.
2063
01:27:08,397 --> 01:27:11,356
We have no idea
if he lived or died.
2064
01:27:11,400 --> 01:27:13,837
And it looks like
we're never gonna know.
164545
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