Original subtitles

[Birds chirping]

[Instrumental music]

[Panting]

Dad. Hurry up.

We're gonna be late for the game.

Dad.

Dad, come on!

[Screams]

[Police siren wailing]

I just went in and he was like that.

Did either of you notice anyone around the house today?

- Anything unusual? - No. Why would anyone kill him?

James didn't have an enemy in the world.

That weird guy from down the street was here earlier.

- 'What guy, honey?' - 'Charlie.'

daddy told him to go away

and he called daddy a name.

When did this happen?

I don't know, like, a few hours ago, I guess.

Do you know this guy, Mrs. Roberts?

Yes, Charlie forsberg.

He lives with his mother a few houses down.

Have you had any problems with him before?

No. He just seems a little weird is all.

'He wanders around the neighborhood.'

he made James nervous.

You said you knew which house he lives in?

[Leaf blower whirring]

Rick.

[Suspense music]

[Indistinct chatter on TV]

[Crash]

[Intense music]

Are you alright?

Is there anyone else in the house?

(Rick) 'Hands in the air!'

'do it now!'

please.

There must be some mistake.

Charlie, tell them, please!

'No!'

[indistinct radio chatter]

[Sobs]

Charles forsberg, ladies and gentlemen, took a claw hammer

to his neighbor's forehead.

- Do we know the motive? - 'Not yet.'

evidently, they did have words earlier that day

but it's not clear what it was about.

(Pitts) 'Forsberg has no priors.'

he has no history of any trouble of any kind.

He pretty much kept to himself.

(Steve) 'Murder weapon was in his possession at the time

of his arrest, with the victim's blood on it.

'Motive may not be all that important.'

juries always like to know the "why" behind the "how."

The police went in without a warrant?

They didn't need one.

They saw blood on the curb.

They heard someone cry out inside the structure

then they went in.

They believed someone was at risk

didn't have time for a warrant.

- It's a clear exception. - Who did they hear inside?

The suspect's mother.

Does any of this even matter? I mean, the guy confessed, right?

You know, as soon as they got the cuffs on him

he told the arresting officer that he killed James Roberts.

Even with the confession we still need to build a case.

What else do we know about this guy?

We know that he has an interest in unsolved crimes.

We searched his bedroom, he had print-outs

clippings, you name it, about two missing people.

Danielle Minnick, 30-year-old real estate agent

disappeared six months ago.

'Kirsten Sullivan.'

s-she's been missing for over a year.

- Fourteen-years-old. - I remember that one.

Her parents were all over the news

pleading for her return.

And we were involved in both cases

but we never had a prime suspect for either one.

You've got one now.

It's not a crime to be a crime buff.

Any evidence of mental instability?

Other than smashing in a guy's head, none.

Unless you count the fact that he's 32 years old,

and he still lives with his mother.

I can't imagine living with my mother.

Haven't you heard? It's the new thing.

Stay at home as long as possible

live off your parents, and save your money.

- Can't beat the rent. - Or the cooking.

Oh, Danny, say it isn't so.

- I'm looking for a place. - 'Here you go.'

(Danny) 'Hey, law school was expensive.'

[laughs]

What's up?

Charlie forsberg has confessed

to the murder of Danielle Minnick

'the missing realtor.'

'this may be just the beginning.'

we might have a serial killer on our hands.

[Dramatic music]

He still waiving his right to counsel?

Somebody up there likes you.

[Scoffs] Let's see how much.

[Door opens]

Mr. Forsberg, I'm annabeth chase, I'm a deputy prosecutor.

I know you've already spoken to the police

but can you tell me again why you killed Mr. Roberts?

Like I said before, he made me mad.

Do you kill everyone who makes you mad?

Don't be stupid.

What made you so mad you wanted to kill him?

- He wasn't nice to me. - That's why you killed him?

I was going for a walk

and his daughter was playing soccer in front of the house.

'The ball rolled towards the street'

and I kicked it back to her.

Then I stood and watched her play for a second.

He said, "keep moving."

Like I wasn't good enough to stand in front of his house.

Like he was better than me.

Maybe he just didn't like the way you were

looking at his little girl.

Hey!

I don't do that.

I'm not interested in kids.

That's sick.

So you left after he asked you to?

(Charlie) 'Yeah.'

but I kept thinking about it.

About the way he looked at me.

Down at me.

I know that look.

And what do you mean you know that look?

Nothing.

You were telling us about how Mr. Roberts made you mad

so you went back to confront him

tell him off. Is that what happened?

- 'And then you got in a fight?' - Nope.

- I went back to kill him. - So did you argue with him?

Tell him what made you so mad?

I wasn't interested in talking to him.

Where'd you get the hammer?

My toolbox, obviously.

'What about the real estate agent, Danielle Minnick?'

she thought she was better than me, too.

I said hello to her once in line at the store

and she didn't even turn around and look at me.

Acted like I was invisible.

You don't like being invisible, do you?

What about the stuff we found in your room?

I like reading about that stuff.

Killing women.

(Mike) 'Yeah, sure.'

it's interesting.

But it's more interesting when you're reading

about stuff you did, isn't it?

I mean, all that press

police activity.

That must make you feel pretty important.

I guess.

You had articles

'about Kirsten Sullivan's disappearance.'

'what can you tell us about her?'

like what?

Like do you know where she is?

Yep.

You know where that girl is?

Is she alive?

Come on, Charlie, you don't want somebody else

getting credit for that, do you?

I killed Kirsten, too.

Where is she?

Buried her where I told you to look for the realty lady

'out in north hendrichs.'

guess people won't ignore you now, huh, Charlie?

There was no time to call for a warrant.

Because you heard someone cry out from inside the house?

Right. Imminent threat.

That's why we went in, Ms. Scofield.

We had reason to believe he'd already

killed the guy in the greenhouse.

So when we heard the woman inside

we couldn't take a chance.

And where was the blood outside the house?

There were several drops on the street near the house.

Well, the lab confirmed it, the blood was from the victim.

Must have come off the murder weapon

when Charlie carried it home.

(Rick) So this guy's going away, right?

I hear he ponied up for a couple other murders, too.

Case is solid. Thanks to both of you.

Looks like we've got a serial killer off the street.

Sometimes it does all work right.

Not often enough but, hey

we take it when it comes.

[Elevator bill dings]

- Thank you. Hi. - Hi.

I heard Charlie confessed to killing Kirsten Sullivan.

Yeah. I still don't get it though.

He goes from killing a teenager last year

to a young woman six months ago..

Thank you. And now a-a family man in his late 30s?

I mean, that's hardly the pattern of a serial killer.

Maybe he's an equal opportunity crazy.

State shrink says he's competent to stand trial.

Competent is one thing, crazy is another.

Now the only reason Charlie's given is that

his victims weren't nice to him.

That doesn't track, somebody pisses you off

maybe you kill them out of anger once.

But if you kill a second, third time

you've got a better reason than just people being rude.

You kill that many times, you enjoy killing.

[Chuckles] He sure enjoys confessing, I'll tell you that.

How'd it go with the police?

The reports line up on Charlie's arrest.

Add the evidence from the house to the confessions

and we're in pretty good shape.

Never count your chickens, ladies.

We've just received a motion to suppress

all the evidence from Charlie's house.

The blood, the weapon, the research

on the other cases, all of it.

- What? On what grounds? - 'No warrant.'

his attorney is claiming illegal entry

and violation of search and seizure.

Who's his public defender?

Ah! Joseph Wright has taken the case.

Of Wright, Holden and Schultz? That's impressive.

Evidently, Charlie's mother hired him.

But she's the reason the police went in.

They heard her in distress inside the house.

Not according to her.

(Maureen) I will talk to Charlie's neighbors

and see if I can nail down

grounds for the cops entering without a warrant.

Good idea. Maybe somebody else heard Charlie's mom scream.

Okay.

Your honor, there was no reason

for the police to enter that house

without first getting a warrant.

It's the same nonsense they used when they jumped oj's wall.

'They claimed he was at risk when in fact'

he was their prime suspect

and they just wanted in the house.

(Annabeth) Your honor, the arresting officers had every reason

to think someone was in danger in Charlie forsberg's house.

Sir, I have a statement from Emily forsberg

the defendant's mother, claiming she made no noise whatsoever

let alone scream or cry out.

Okay, so the police would lie

but his own mother wouldn't?

I couldn't put it better myself.

Your honor, the officer found Mr. Forsberg

'right next to the murder weapon'

which shows they were wholly justified in assuming

he posed a risk to anyone in that house

not to mention the materials they found

relating to the other murders he's since confessed to.

(Judge hanophy) But if the arrest was illegal

they'd all be fruits from the same poisoned tree, Ms. Chase.

Exactly, sir. Anything found in that house

should be deemed inadmissible at trial.

Please, what's next? What? Do you want your client released?

- As a matter of fact.. - 'Forget it, Mr. Wright.'

your client's not going anywhere.

But I will take the suppression motion under advisement.

[Instrumental music]

You'd never guess, would you?

I'm sorry?

Well, the house.

It pretty much looks the same

as all the other ones on the street.

You'd never guess that such a terrible person grew up there.

Did you know Charlie?

Oh, I've lived here over 20 years.

Everybody knows everybody.

He never was the friendliest fellow

but I certainly didn't know

he was capable of murdering someone, never.

I feel so sorry for Emily.

Poor thing

losing her husband so young and now this.

Were you home the morning of the murder?

Oh, yes. I was baking banana bread

when I saw the police outside.

Next thing I knew, one of the officers

was walking around back with his gun out.

The other one was kicking down the front door, just like TV.

I got so wound up, I burned my bread.

Did you say one of the officers was moving toward the back?

They didn't go in together?

No, uh, the-the one who kicked down the door

uh, was shouting to her partner

and, uh, he went running back.

I'm surprised he could hear anything

what with Mr. Hoggins next door

with his darn leaf blower running.

Y-You know, I-I told the other lawyer all this.

Didn't he tell you?

- What lawyer? - Oh, well, the nice fellow.

He was very well dressed. Uh, what was his name?

Mr. Wright, that was it.

Do you two work together?

Not exactly.

How'd the suppression hearing go?

(Annabeth) 'Unfortunately, the judge is taking it under advisement.'

let's just say I've had better days in court.

Don't shoot the messenger, but I'm about to take your

lousy day and make it disastrous.

- What? - I think the police are lying.

- You're kidding. - 'Wait, it gets worse.'

the defense knows it, and I think they can prove it.

In their reports both officers said

they heard someone cry out from inside the house.

Maybe they both did.

Not if officer abbott was where the neighbor said

and the leaf blower was running back here.

They also said they went in at the same time

through the front door in response to

hearing Charlie's mother.

"And we both entered the house at that time."

That's not consistent with what the neighbor said, either.

And now that Wright knows it, you can bet the judge does, too.

We could risk losing all the evidence

that was inside that house

including the bloody murder weapon and the clippings

'linking him to the murders of Danielle and Kirsten.'

so do we believe the cops or the mother

'who said she did not cry out?'

this is a woman who's been a widow for over 20 years

and she still wears her wedding ring.

I mean, she's devoted her life to the only thing

she had left, her son.

Must be hard to face the possibility

that you raised a vicious killer.

I think denial is probably easier for her

than the pain of admitting failure as a parent.

So, what, you think this is all her fault somehow?

- Nurture over nature? - No, but she might.

Well, she's obviously going to be no help to us.

So can we win the case if the judge throws out

'all the evidence from the house?'

the lab results are back.

Charlie's footprints were found near the greenhouse

so were several hairs and fibers from his jacket.

And we know that he argued with the victim earlier

and we have the victim's blood near Charlie's house.

It's all circumstantial.

If we lose the hammer and the victim's blood in the house

it's not going to be easy.

Well, let's wait and see how bad the neighbor hurts us.

Hey. Looks like we found one of Charlie's victims.

- Which one? - 'Don't know yet.'

police just found a body up in the area

where he said he buried the two females.

Let's you and I go up there. I want to make sure

that the police are keeping the press at bay

and I want to remind them what's at stake.

The evidence they find at or near the body

may be all we have to connect Charlie to the murders.

We still haven't been able to put him with

either Kirsten or Danielle.

Keep at it, now that he's got a lawyer

the confessions may be the next thing to be challenged.

This was the last picture we have of Kirsten.

She disappeared about a month after this was taken.

'She was 14.'

Mr. and Mrs. Sullivan, I am so sorry.

We never gave up hope.

All this time we kept thinking

we'd find her and bring her home.

It's the not knowing that's so hard

do you think they found her?

We won't know until they've had a chance

to run all the tests.

This forsberg, this, uh..

Thing that killed our baby

did he say why?

No, he didn't give a reason.

Did you know him or have any reason

to think Kirsten did?

No, certainly not.

We don't live near him.

I really can't imagine where he saw her.

We always tried to know where she was, who she was with.

Well, we are pushing hard on all fronts.

'You can be certain of that.'

and I'll let you know as soon as I hear anything more.

[Instrumental music]

[Dogs barking]

[Indistinct radio chatter]

- What do we got? - 'Female.'

(brown) 'Looks like she's been out here about six'

'maybe eight months.'

(Steve) 'Can you tell the age?'

(brown) 'From the height and the pelvic width'

I'd say she's between 25 and 30.

That fits the description

of that real estate agent, Danielle.

So Kirsten's still out here somewhere.

We're expanding the search area, with this as our epicenter.

If anyone else is buried out here, we'll find them.

Your honor, before you rule may I be heard?

Go ahead.

I think it's important that the court be aware

that the police have located

the body of what appears to be Danielle Minnick.

They did so in the very area Charles forsberg

claimed he buried her.

Your honor, my client was fascinated by crime

and police investigations

as indicated by the materials

which were illegally found in his room.

He did copious research on these unsolved cases

and it was well-covered in the press at the time

'that the police were searching'

'that particular part of hendrichs county.'

and so what are you saying?

He made a lucky guess where the body could be found?

- Exactly. - 'This is ridiculous.'

he didn't merely tell us where to find her

he confessed to killing her.

A confession on the heels of an illegal search.

Any confession my client made should be thrown out as well.

Nice try, but not a chance, counselor.

What he chose to tell the police

after he was taken into custody is on him.

I have a sworn statement

from my client's mother stating that quote

"Charlie often makes up stories

and exaggerates things" unquote.

Right, anything else from mommy?

Maybe she's the one with the vivid imagination.

Okay, you can both save the song and dance for the trial.

Right now, the matter before us is the admissibility

of the evidence taken from the defendant's home

following his arrest.

'The mother says she didn't call out.'

'the police say she did.'

but the neighbors statement

directly contradicts the police reports.

Reports, which are, by the way

carbon copies of each other.

(Judge hanophy) 'I'm aware of that, counselor.'

add the leaf blower into the mix, and

quite frankly, I don't feel that I have reasonable certainty

'that either officer heard anything inside that house.'

while it pains me to do so, Ms. Chase

I must rule in favor of the defense in this matter

'and Grant the motion to suppress'

'everything discovered inside the forsberg house.'

your honor, without the blood evidence, the murder weapon

or the materials relating to the other crimes

there is a real risk that a dangerous killer

could escape justice.

An alleged killer.

(Judge hanophy) You'll have to make the case another way.

It's incumbent upon the state to err on the side of more

rather than less protection

'for potential abuses of the fourth amendment.'

the evidence is out.

It's gonna be tough to make the case

in the greenhouse murder with the evidence suppressed.

Not all of it, just from inside the house.

We've still got Charlie's footprints

fibers and hairs near the greenhouse

and the blood on the curb near his house.

Which the defense will try to explain away.

So mostly what we have are Charlie's confessions.

What about the body they found?

The coroner did make a positive ID.

It is the real estate agent, Danielle.

Unfortunately, they couldn't find anything

at the gravesite to connect Charlie to the murder.

- Nothing at all? - No hairs, no traceable fibers.

(Pitts) We do have this.

After she disappeared the police checked

'security videos of stores she was in that day.'

'forsberg did see her.'

that part of his confession checks out.

He was interviewed at the time along with everybody else

who was in the store, but he was never a suspect.

(Steve) 'Any luck in finding the body of the little girl'

Charlie confessed to killing, uh, Kirsten?

Not yet. We've expanded the search area

several hundred yards beyond where he said he put her.

So far, nothing.

Let's make her case a part of this trial, as well.

Good. Charlie's confessed to three killings.

We've got two bodies.

My guess is they'll find a third body soon.

I think the jury will believe he killed Kirsten anyway

even without the body.

(Annabeth) 'Ladies and gentlemen'

'James Roberts and Danielle Minnick'

were both brutally murdered by Charlie forsberg.

James was a loving husband and father.

Danielle was 30.

She worked as a real estate agent and was preparing

for her realtor's exam.

'The body of Kirsten Sullivan has yet to be located'

but the defendant has also confessed to killing her.

Kirsten was only 14 years old.

There is no doubt that Charlie forsberg

committed all of these murders.

'In fact, you will hear him admit'

'to killing each one of these three people'

in cold blood, with no other reason

than he felt they weren't nice to him.

(Joseph) And as you will see

the evidence is circumstantial at best.

Ladies and gentlemen, you will also hear expert testimony

that these so-called confessions

were nothing more than my client's misguided attempt

to attract attention from authority figures.

'The kind of attention that he has never received'

due to the tragic loss of his father

while he was still a young boy.

'Yes, ladies and gentlemen, my client needs help.'

'there is no doubt about that.'

but that does not make him

a killer.

Loretta, why did your dad tell Charlie to go away?

He was just standing there

sort of staring.

- He's kind of weird. - Objection.

Sustained.

Loretta, try to just say what happened that day, okay?

What happened the day your dad died?

Okay. Daddy kept telling Charlie to go away.

I could tell Charlie and daddy were mad.

- Is that okay? - Yes, that's fine, dear.

(Joseph) 'I'm just going to ask you a couple of questions, alright?'

um, you said your daddy asked Charlie to go away.

Did-did Charlie leave when your daddy asked him to?

Yeah.

Did you see Charlie come back after that

or go in or out of the greenhouse

any time later that day?

- No. - 'No.'

(Joseph) 'And where was the blood?'

on the curb in front of the forsberg house.

In front of the forsberg house, really?

Because from what I can tell

it's at best, near the house.

Your honor, I'd say he's leading the witness

but it's more like he's just testifying himself.

Stick to asking questions, counselor.

I'm sorry, your honor.

Officer, let me rephrase that.

Based on this evidence was the blood

directly in front of the house?

No.

So as far as you know the killer could've

crossed the street here

or gone into a different house.

I suppose.

In fact, based on the evidence

the killer could have gotten into a car

right here and driven away.

Isn't that so?

Yes.

Thank you.

Mr. Brown.

So, you did find evidence that Mr. Forsberg had been there?

Yes, near the greenhouse, we found footprints as well as

several hair and fibers

that match those of the defendant.

Thank you.

We have heard testimony that Mr. Forsberg occasionally

wandered around the neighborhood.

If he had been on the Roberts' property at some other time

is it possible that he could have left

these footprints and fibers then?

In fact, isn't it possible

he could have left them the day before the killing

or, let's say, the day before that?

I suppose so. Yes.

Were you the lead technical investigator at the sight

where Danielle Minnick's body was located?

Yes.

And did you discover any evidence

connecting my client to that victim?

- No. - No?

- 'No footprints, no fibers?' - No.

So, you discovered absolutely nothing

to suggest, let alone prove

that she was killed by the defendant?

Except he told us where to find her body.

(Annabeth on TV) 'So you went back to confront him'

'tell him off, is that what happened?'

no.

- I went back to kill him. - 'So did you argue with him?'

(annabeth on TV) 'Tell him what made you so mad?'

(Charlie on TV) 'I wasn't interested in talking to him.'

- 'where'd you get the hammer?' - My toolbox, obviously.

(Annabeth on TV) 'And what about the woman, Danielle Minnick?'

'why did you kill her?'

she thought she was better than me, too.

'I said hello to her in line at the store once'

and she didn't even turn around and look at me.

Acted like I was invisible.

Detective, is it unusual for someone

to confess to murder?

I suppose. It would make our job a lot easier.

Indeed, it would.

And in your experience

would you say

it's also unusual

for a motive of, "people weren't very nice to me?"

- Objection. Relevance. - Getting there, your honor.

I'll allow it.

I suppose.

It's usually a bit more specific.

I can't speak to the pathology of Mr. Forsberg.

No. You can't.

I'm a clinical psychologist

and I've been practicing for about 15 years.

And did you examine Mr. Forsberg?

(Female #1) 'I did.'

and what was your determination, doctor?

I think he suffers from a general social anxiety.

His history of leaving jobs

his unusually close relationship with his mother

all these things have rendered Charlie

incapable of normal social interaction.

You know, I watched my client's confession

and I have to say, he didn't seem under any undue stress.

In fact, he appeared calm, even relaxed. How can that be?

That's because he adopted an identity finally.

Granted, it happens to be that of a killer

but it gave him a persona to occupy whereas before

he effectively had none at all.

Would you say Charlie is a pathological liar?

No. He's not incapable of telling the truth.

So, there is really no reason to believe

he lied about killing these people, is there, doctor?

All I can tell you is that

Charlie is capable of telling the truth.

I'll take that as a yes.

[Joseph clears throat]

Doctor, being able to tell the truth is one thing

but in your expert opinion is it also possible that this

socially isolated individual

was actually enjoying

the intense attention he was getting?

Absolutely.

And in fact, despite these serious accusations

might make a false confession?

Certainly. He thought his life was meaningless.

That he was invisible.

This gave him an identity.

So the fact that he admitted to these killings

does not mean that he did them?

Not necessarily, that's correct.

Thank you.

Doctor, does it mean that he didn't kill them?

No.

That's also possible.

Thank you.

Counselor, may we proceed?

Your honor, I'd like to request a brief recess.

We'll reconvene in one hour.

What's going on?

That Sullivan girl turned up.

They found Kirsten? God.

Was she buried near Danielle where forsberg said?

Not even close.

She's right there.

[Music continues]

We just got her back.

Do we have to do this now?

I think we do.

Kirsten, you had a lot of people

very worried about you for a long time.

Are you aware that a man is on trial for your murder?

Yeah, I saw it on TV.

Where have you been all this time?

In Cameron's apartment.

You told us you stopped seeing him.

Only 'cause you told me I had to.

He was 19. She was a baby.

Are you saying you haven't left

your boyfriend's apartment in the past year?

I'd go out at night sometimes

'when nobody would notice.'

Kirsten, we were sick with worry.

How could you let us think that you were dead this whole time?

I'm sorry.

Why did you come back now?

I saw somebody said he killed me on the news.

'That was sort of too weird'

and Cameron and me broke up.

I can't imagine how she could put her parents through this.

I mean, running away is one thing, but this?

This.. It's just cruel.

I'm having the boyfriend arrested.

We're going to charge him with lying to the police

as well as statutory rape.

Wright's been pushing hard on the pathological liar angle.

This plays right into his hands.

Talk to the judge, see if you can minimize the damage

he can do with this news.

Okay.

Your honor, clearly this is grounds

for the immediate dismissal

of all charges against my client.

How do you figure that?

Because it proves what I've been arguing all along.

He confessed to the murders for the attention.

Perhaps you're aware, one of the alleged victims is not dead?

(Judge hanophy) 'Let's not get carried away, Mr. Wright.'

all we know for sure is that

he lied about killing Kirsten Sullivan.

I'll inform the jury the third murder charge has been dropped

we'll proceed on the other two victims.

And I would ask that you instruct the defense

not to introduce any further details

pertaining to Kirsten's return.

Allowing him to expand upon the basic facts

would be highly prejudicial, your honor.

That is outrageous, sir.

Her being alive goes to the heart of my defense.

The defense may utilize this girl's return

any way it sees fit, within reason, counselor.

Don't make a mockery of my court.

It'll be up to the jury to decide

how much to weight it against everything else.

(Annabeth on TV) 'Is she alive? Come on, Charlie. You don't want somebody else'

'getting credit for that, do you?'

yeah.

- I killed Kirsten, too. - 'Where is she?'

buried in the same place I told you to look for the realty lady

out in north Hendricks.

Your honor, we call Kirsten Sullivan to the stand.

Would you please state your name for the record?

Kirsten Elizabeth Sullivan.

And are you the same Kirsten Sullivan who was reported

missing in January of last year?

Yes.

(Joseph) The defendant, Charlie forsberg

is currently on trial for your murder.

'But the truth is that you chose to leave home'

of your own free will

and have, in fact, been living with your boyfriend

for the past 12 months, is that correct?

Yes.

(Joseph) 'Do you know Charles forsberg?'

no.

Have you ever seen him before?

- No, never. - Thank you.

And may I just say, it is delightful

to see you alive and well.

Nothing further.

Prosecution wish to examine this witness?

- No, your honor. - Your honor, defense rests.

Very well. We'll hear closing arguments Monday.

[Bangs gavel]

We're back, reporting live from the Indianapolis courthouse

where wpkw has learned of new development..

How did it go?

As bad as you'd expect.

Y-You could see it in the jurors faces. Wright got them.

If they really think Charlie made it up, they could acquit.

You still have your closing.

It's gonna to be hard to UN-ring this bell.

I mean, t-the verdict is a total crapshoot at this point.

Talk to Wright, maybe he's not at all sure

how the jury will go, either.

Let's see if we can offer him a deal.

Charlie forsberg murdered two people in cold blood.

Propose two counts of manslaughter, 24 years.

If he offers a reasonable counter

it may be our best play here.

'It's better than having him back on the street'

'in an acquittal.'

better for all of us.

[Reporters clamoring]

- Did you just see that? - I think I did.

How could Kirsten know Charlie's mother?

Let's find out. And, annabeth, see if you can dig anything

out of Charlie about this.

Kirsten, how do you know Mrs. Forsberg?

Who's that?

She is the mother of the man on trial.

You hugged her outside of court yesterday.

Oh, yeah. She always just told us her to call her Emily.

'I didn't know she was that guy's mom.'

she was sometimes like a tutor outside school.

And that's the only time you saw her after school?

Yeah.

Once, when I missed the late bus, she gave me a ride home.

[Cell buzzer buzzing]

I'm prepared to reduce the charge to

two counts of manslaughter.

He serves 24 years.

Well, you must be joking

because you have absolutely no evidence

that my client killed Danielle Minnick.

But we all know he killed James Roberts

and the jury just heard him confess to killing Danielle.

He could get life.

Or he could walk

because we both know what those confessions are worth now.

I'll tell you what. I'll go you halfway.

He does one count, eight years.

There was an argument, it escalated

and Charlie will admit to striking Mr. Roberts

in the heat of the moment.

And what about Danielle Minnick.

As with Kirsten Sullivan, my client falsely took credit

for her tragic death.

Tell me, Charlie, why did you lie about killing Kirsten?

You don't have to answer that.

Maybe I would have killed her if I had to.

- Why would you have to? - Just would have.

But saying you killed a little girl

I mean, you must have known

that would upset your mother even more.

- Leave her out of this. - Okay, that's enough.

(Annabeth) Why? Were you trying to hurt her?

Is that what all this is about?

Hurting your mom?

Ms. Chase, I said that's enough.

I would never hurt my mother.

Never.

But you did.

Did you know she knew Kirsten?

She gave her a hug today in the courthouse, it was very sweet.

- That's a lie. - Charlie.

You're lying. She wouldn't.

That girl just tried to take her away.

- They all did. - That is enough!

We are done here. Thank you very much.

Charlie's mother tutored

a couple afternoons a week at Kirsten's school.

After she disappeared

the volunteer program was discontinued.

The parents wanted their kids to come straight home after school.

But Kirsten claims she never even met Charlie.

Doesn't mean he never saw her.

I keep trying to find a way to connect Charlie

to each of these victims.

But what if we're looking at this all wrong.

What if it wasn't Charlie's connection to these people

that was so important.

What if it was his mother's?

'I think Charlie became so attached to his mother'

that he was unwilling to share her with anyone.

But Charlie didn't kill Kirsten.

No, but her disappearance could have given him the idea.

After Kirsten vanished, mom was suddenly home more.

Charlie realized that if the people that were

coming between them were out of the picture

he could have her all to himself again.

(Pitts) 'Nah. I don't know.'

what could her connection to James Roberts possibly be

other than just being a neighbor?

(Steve) 'Well, see if we can find out.'

and let's look closer, see if we can find

a connection between the mother and the realtor.

Mrs. Roberts, you told the police that your husband

and Mrs. Forsberg were both interested in gardening?

That's right.

They loved it.

They spent hours fussing in that silly greenhouse.

They were even talking about taking a class

at the community college on the weekends.

James lost both his parents years ago.

It was sweet.

I got Danielle Minnick's real estate report.

And?

The forsberg house was up for sale when she disappeared.

She wasn't the selling agent

but, uh, the property was on her regular caravan.

That's why we didn't catch it sooner.

And?

And, one of her clients made an offer

but the financing fell through.

A week later the house was taken off the market.

Why didn't you tell the police

that you were planning to move six months ago?

I didn't think it was important.

I mean, I thought about moving to Arizona

to be closer to my sister

but, oh, Charlie was so upset about it.

He refused to even look for his own place.

I felt awful. I just didn't want to push it.

Danielle frequently brought perspective buyers to the house.

She was killed not long after

preparing an offer for one of them.

Yes.

'And you and James Roberts'

spent time gardening and were talking about

taking a weekend class together.

He was my neighbor and my friend.

I-I don't understand..

I believe your son targeted anyone he thought

threatened to take your attention away from him.

[Laughs] Oh, that is ridiculous.

After Kirsten disappeared

you no longer had to spend time at the school.

Charlie lied about hurting Kirsten.

And he lied about the others too.

He just needs help is all.

Mrs. Forsberg

I understand your impulse to protect your child.

I'm a mother too

'and I would do anything for my daughter.'

but this is different.

You saw Charlie and the blood on the hammer

that he used to kill James that day.

Without your help, there's a real possibility

that your son could go free.

Charlie is my son.

He's all I have.

I want him to come home.

I don't think you do.

What is this?

(Annabeth) 'Last month, Charlie made the final payment'

on two cemetery plots.

One for him and one for you.

I already have a plot with my husband.

This isn't even at the same cemetery.

No, it isn't, and that's a sign of just

how strong his obsession is.

The only person that can come between

you and Charlie now is you.

I believe Charlie is so afraid of being abandoned by you

of being left alone, that he could kill you next

and himself as well

to make sure that you'll never be apart.

Mrs. Forsberg, you've created a version of events

that explains them away.

I know you want to believe the best about your son

but it's too late.

I need your help.

I need you to tell the truth.

[Exhales]

The morning James was killed..

I heard Charlie come home.

'The back door slammed.'

and when I finally came into the room

Charlie was standing there

with the hammer in his hand..

And it looked like it was covered with blood.

But the look in his eyes..

That's what startled me the most.

And did you gasp or cry out when you saw this?

Yes, I think I did.

Something came out of me.

And that's when the police entered?

Yes.

[Breathes shakily]

I am so sorry.

[Sobbing] I had no idea.

I did the best I could.

'The best I could.'

oh, Charlie.

I am so sorry.

(Judge hanophy) 'Charles forsberg'

for the murders of James Roberts and Danielle Minnick

'the state of Indiana sentences you'

'to two terms of life in prison'

'without the possibility of parole'

'to be served consecutively.'

take the prisoner into custody.

[Instrumental music]

It really is terrifying, isn't it?

What is?

Not knowing if you're doing it right

or screwing everything up somehow.

The joys of parenthood, babe.

You really think it's all up to us how she turns out?

I don't know.

Well, thank god we're perfect parents.

[Chuckles] Yeah, right.

And I don't see that serial killer look in her eye.

'Little angel is never going to do anything wrong'

are you, monkey?

Never, ever.

I'll remind you of that

the first time she tells you she hates you.

Or misses her curfew.

Mm..

- Or gets pregnant. - Hey.

None of that stuff is ever going to happen.

And if it does, we'll love her anyway.

(Annabeth) 'It would be nice if she came with'

'an instruction manual though, wouldn't it?'

yeah, but I think we're doing a pretty damn good job.

And maybe..

Maybe we should try and have another one.

Just in case we mess this one up.

Oh.

[Chuckles]

Shut up.

[Chuckles]

(Female narrator) Stay tuned for scenes from our next episode.

[Theme music]