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welcome to the France 24 debate I'm

Marco in Cuba and the Embargo imposed

back in an era when John F Kennedy was

in the White House and Fidel Castro was

the revolutionary leader of Cuba 60

years later it's still in place and it

weighs on the lives of the people of

Cuba the United Nations this week will

vote once again for the 30th time on the

lifting of the Embargo and this vote is

destined to be blocked once again by the

U.S and its Chief Ally Israel our panel

will be discussing why the U.S continues

to block the lifting of these

restrictions what it means for Cuba what

it means for Latin America the debate

then the whole issue regarding Cuba and

its blockade now since of course it was

originally put down there have been many

things that have happened arm cells of

course were banned four years before the

actual full embargo on Cuba and of

course that meant that Cuba lent on its

major Ally the Soviet Union to make up

that Gap the Cuban Missile Crisis came

and went hostility and rhetoric

continued to boil through

but this thing still remains in an area

which is clearly very very different so

who is holding back from who and who's

benefiting these and other questions

will be discussed by our panel here in

the studio let me introduce them and

Kratz is a historian and a specialist in

U.S foreign affairs and thank you for

being with us thank you for having me

with ant Pascal drool expert on Latin

America from The schwozoi Institute

Pascal as ever great to see thank you

very much indeed on the other side of

our studio is Luis Cabrera journalist

here at France 24 and important to uh

point out here a Cuban citizen Luis

great to see you thank you very much

indeed we have guests joining us from

afar they are in Cuba Carlos al-zugarai

who is a Cuban Diplomat and former

Ambassador call us thank you very much

for being with us

we'll be letting you loosen a second sir

Eric's van is joining us to a member of

Republicans in France and author of the

book La banier

etale Eric thank you very much for being

with us we will start with you sir can I

put a basic question to you Eric's fan

uh joining us from afar republics in

France but you're in the US I understand

uh Eric why is the US so dead set

against lifting this embargo

well the first thing to say is that it's

a lot of people put confuse and embargo

with

um Blake it is not a blockade there's no

problem for people in Cuba or for the

government to buy things from France or

Denmark or China or Russia it's their

only blocking uh American stuff from

being sold there so the Communists in

Cuba should be delighted they should be

delighted because they're keeping stuff

made by the Imperial

oh Yankee capitalist pigs from being

brought to Cuba they should be delighted

Eric thank you let me let me start let

me stop you there because I wanted a

short introductions to what it is and I

think you've really hit the realm of the

head from the Republican perspective

thank you so very much indeed let me

bring in Carlos Azul garai uh for a

reply to that one Carlos from your

perspective you heard what Eric was

saying representing the Republicans

abroad speaking more or less on behalf

of the Republican Party what's your

point of view sir

well it is uh maybe maybe the blockade

is to a is too excessive maybe I don't

know but an embargo is not because uh

and the and these every government in

the world agrees is that the U.S

coercive measures against Cuba or

sanctions against Cuba to use two words

that are not blockade uh our extra

territorial they they really stop other

countries from Trading with Theo for

example no country can export to Cuba

products more with more than 10 American

Conference or can they import anything

with more than 10 percent human

components so if you want to buy a candy

in the United States for uh from a third

country you have to make sure that less

than 10 children's in that country or if

you want to buy a car the car has to

have less than 10 percent of nickel

which makes it very complicated on the

other hand there are the financial

missions that make it very difficult to

do transactions through Banks Banks are

being fined for doing transgender as

simple as transferring some money to

Cuba or receiving some dollars from Cuba

so it is a conjunction of unilateral

coercive measure of extraterritorial

Nature and the most important thing is

that since 1960 the U.S in an internal

memo said the purpose is to bring about

Hunger desperation and the overthrow of

the given government now another thing

that has to be taken into account is

that putting Cuba in the list of states

and sponsors of terrorism without any

justification at all ads additional

sanctions to Cuba and finally the U.S

um

has a closed down the Consular section

in of their Embassy in Havana which

makes it even more difficult so it is a

very hostile policy it's cruel the the

Embargo the Embargo or blockade as we

want to call it has been increased

during the pandemia at moments when Cuba

was struggling to produce vaccines for

its population the United States the

Trump Administration and later dividing

Administration increased the number of

sanctions so it is it is a cruel and

perverse policy to create a situation in

which the Cuban people rise against

their government and overthrow it

call us thank you for now very much

indeed just to picking up what you were

saying there about the the recent

demonstrations the U.S imposing

sanctions on Cuban police force uh

leaders and and others in response to

those uh crackdowns on protesters that

you were talking about there uh Biden

promising Cuban American leaders the

more action is coming we'll get to sense

as a Democrat Republican kind of

Face-Off going on within U.S which is

possibly leaving Cuba as the kind of uh

scapegoat in many ways those

demonstrations we were talking about

July the 11th 2021 a spontaneous Street

protests in 50 cities saw thousands of

people uh climbing for change they'll be

shouting Freedom down with the

dictatorship we are hungry all this kind

of a mass kind of rollover problems are

often coming from the the pandemic as

well as Carlos was saying let's bring in

more guests here in the studio and Gratz

um

is Cuba a victim of a kind of

difference of opinion here between the

Democrats on one hand Obama when he came

to power

basically relax things a bit more then

Trump comes back in and closes the door

again right well when we when we when

Obama Started lifting many of these

sanctions imposed on Cuba it immediately

had a positive effect on Cuba I think we

can say this without a fear of being

contradicted uh businesses were allowed

to open up to be owned by Cubans

themselves uh businesses that had

American owners could actually be set up

in Cuba and so on and so forth that's

really just from the point of view of of

business the business approach and Obama

was obviously

convinced that that very long the

longest of all embargoes that were ever

imposed on another country by the United

States or by any other country for that

matter had not produced the results that

we were all hoping it would initially

and the result that we were hoping it

would would be that they would be that

there would be a change of regime and

that the Communist Marxist regime of

Cuba would fall apart

Etc but it didn't but at the same time

when Obama did relax measures including

for American citizens to go and travel

to Cuba it brought all kinds of

well-being measures in Cuba itself

and then comes Trump and he starts

you know going back to what I might call

the body politic in the United States

sometimes whether they be Democrat or

Republicans and that is called an

addiction to sanctions once you have

sanctions in place nobody seems to know

how to lift them even when they don't

obviously fulfill the the original aim

and what's happening to Cuba now is

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disastrous basically but I might add if

I may you may there is a there's of

course the other political elements the

political element is the Hispanic vote

and especially the Cuban American votes

especially in States like Florida and

Texas now where do we see we have a

senator in Florida that whose name is

Marco Rubio himself of Cuban descent and

we have Ted Cruz in Texas and those two

guys I was going to say forgive by

and you can say guys don't you worry

about it your English is fantastic

please continue yeah I'm never going to

let the Embargo against Cuba perhaps and

certainly not now in the just before the

midterm elections and the problem is

that since Obama during the Obama period

there was obviously a sentiment shared

by many Americans said people things

should open up right Obama wasn't

opening up kind of person and he was

followed by the population but a lot of

things have changed since then and it's

only been what eight years ago but it

was it feels like 20 years ago and even

the young Cuban Americans who were all

on the side of Obama when he ran for

president some of them have turned

around and definitely the older Cuban

Americans are very much against lifting

the Embargo for really one reason and

that is because they cannot be assured

that if the Embargo were lifted they

would ever recover the money that the

Marxist government

took away from them when they had to go

into Exile Old Wounds still open still

hurting and thank you let's bring in a

Cuban youngster forgive me corny

youngster I'm not being patronizing but

you are a lot younger than me actually

um Luis um give us a sense of of life

that you left behind in Cuba when you

came to France what is life like that

what is like life like like there now

for your family for instance yeah I just

went to Cuba back in July so I have uh

fresh memories of how uh people are

being affected about the situation

nowadays of course it's a combination of

factors it's not only the U.S embargo

you have the Kobe pandemic and you have

the own Cuban government whose economic

uh policy is a disaster as well but

let's

um I propose you to show you some of the

examples of the main issues the Cuban

Cuban people encounter nowadays and

let's try to make a link of

um how it's uh that the responsibility

there's a responsibility for those

problems belongs or not to the Embargo

correspond or not to the U.S sanctions

for example one of the main issues they

have Cubans nowadays is food

um probably Dr also where I can speak

more about that later but um in the case

of food you have a shortage because of

course the economic situation is so bad

but also when a Cuban companies try to

import food to the country then comes

the persecution of the office of foreign

asset controls of the United States

saying like hey you cannot go to Cuba

anymore with this I don't know let us

say soybeans because if you do so you're

gonna be punished then if the Cuban

agriculture sector it doesn't matter if

it's a private uh producer if it is a

government if they try to buy something

in the in the international market they

will get the refusal as we were

professors that I was pointing before

for example the um latest figures is is

that in the last year they made 518

requests for

um tractors batteries engines forklifts

parts and pieces for the for agriculture

and only nine of those 519 were accepted

and we are not talking about the us

we're talking about the entire world so

it is all that because of the US embargo

well is is that does that set the

precedent that creates the situation

there we are talking about food in this

case of course you have that on one hand

and on the other hand you have of course

a lot of regulations the Cuban

government imposes on private

agricultures and of course that is us

that is also another reason why the food

situation is so bad in Cuba but you need

to know that you have both of those

reasons

so the U.S embargo is not making it

better it's actually worsen in the

situation there I know Eric wants to get

him from the Republicans but before I

come to you Eric I need to bring in

Pascal druo here in the studio Pascal uh

expert on Latin America from The

schwazoy Institute

um your view on on this embargo should

it be lifted why is it being blocked the

un's voted 30 times on it it gets

blocked every time what should happen I

think that in terms of international

Justice in terms of what's right sure I

I think that the Embargo became through

the decades part of both identity

and both national identity

for the USA for Cuba and it is source of

legitimacy of the power

for Cuba and of course for the political

measures in in the USA it is part of a

political myth

political obligation Duty for Latin

America to engage some countries behind

Cuba or supporting the U.S position and

today we are in a Kafka situation in

fact because if the Embargo is at the

source since the executive order of JFK

in 62 it is today a weakness the Demons

of the nuclear war and the international

situation today the attention

are reinforcing this feeling and of

course it is becoming worse for for the

myth of of the Cuban to the Cuban risk

so as Luis was saying it is very hard

for the food but I've seen during many

years in the the energy sector in Cuba

how hard it is and for sure

how the Embargo is

managed to limit the the maintenance the

the developing of

the electric plants in Cuba so this

situation today it is the Embargo is one

part of the problem the problem is

global it's political is economical it's

social that's part of uh institutional

in Cuba but that's part of the identity

in Latin America and today we are in the

Kafka situation Kafka has situation

certainly this is obviously is a story

with a lot of history Batista was the

previous leader of Cuba before Fidel

Castro at took over Batista was a an

american-backed dictator I think it's

fair to say uh he of course over thrown

in 1959 by a Castro's coup Caster will

then be a thorn in the side of

Washington for decades to come and arms

embargo against the now communist Jew

became soon after that Revolution

Kennedy it was the Democratic president

of the U.S who oversaw the imposing of

the trade embargo in February 1962.

let's get back to Eric's fan member of

Republicans in France who's joining us

from the United States Eric we

appreciate your time you're taking to

speak to us I cut you short at the

beginning I apologize for that you've

now got free reign tell us what you

think about the situation can I just put

it to you that this has become in many

ways a kind of a kind of hobby horse for

the Republicans because they've got so

many people to play to who want this to

remain so they're keeping it as a policy

which perhaps no longer makes sense

would you agree with that

well I would say that uh Anne Kratz

mentioned the Cuban Republicans uh the

Cuban Americans especially Marco Rubio

and uh and um Cruz Ted Cruz and she said

um the the uh the these she suggested

that these P these Cuban Americans are

excessive because they won't forgive the

Cubans for taking their money from them

they didn't take their money from them

they stole it from them of course they

don't want to uh be want to play nice

and all that but the main question I

have here is which country is the the

one that delivers the most

um food foodstuffs to Cuba and it is

America it's the USA because the Embargo

has exceptions for humanitarianism and

that includes food and it includes a

medicine those are two things that are

never mentioned and uh they never

mention either I mean Russia supported

or the Soviet Union was supported Cuba

for uh 40 years uh 30 40 years and it

still doesn't explain why Cuba can't

live without the Yankee imperialist

capitalist pigs and simply rely on

France on Canada on Mexico and Venezuela

which they didn't unfortunately and um I

would end with this um there's a Gustavo

Arcos bergness was uh was a was one of

the fighters with Castro and when he was

under this American dictator as you

called Batista they were put into jail

they were put into jail for 15 years and

their jail consisted of a hospital Ward

they were put in a nice Hospital Ward

where they could cook their own food and

where um and they were they were let out

after less than two years when when

Castro is is is uh when he when he

became president baroness did not agree

with what he what he said and Bernice

was put into a real prison where the the

roof was so low that you couldn't stand

up straight and he was there for 28

years and he wrote about this in the New

York Times so there is so to Simply go

over the the Communist revolutions like

we do with McCarthyism you know when

McCarthy was in power that was who was

in power in Russia and the Kremlin was

Stalin I don't think Stalin is uh has

anything to do with paranoia I think

being paranoia paranoid about Stalin or

the Castro Brothers uh has a little is

pretty reasonable I need to now cut you

off because I need to bring someone else

into comment here but thank you for

making your points and I'm trying to

give you as Fair a shout as I can thank

you so very much indeed you mentioned

many things there mentioned many things

there Luis I know when he talked about

medicine yes I just want to be flinched

tell us what I just want to bring your

perspective because it's easy to say

that the U.S is the fourth partner of

Key West Imports but uh yeah because

like if Cuba wants to buy something from

France and it does not make the criteria

of having less than 10 percent of Parts

made in the US France cannot sell it to

Q and Cuba cannot buy it from France or

China or any other country in the world

so this actually creates parameters that

make things different yeah so of course

Cuba can buy food from the from the from

the from the United States because it's

so close and because it is the only

country allowing itself to sell products

to Cuba and in the case of medicine this

is something that is probably the most

shocking uh aspect of the U.S embargo

because we're talking about human lives

here and

um there are a lot of restrictions and

and I have the most recent example for

um this year happened for example the

U.S prevents Cuba from acquiring

custodial this is a chemical solution

that is used to maintain a viability of

the organ to be transplanted there were

eight kids in Cuba who needed this for a

month and they couldn't buy it in the

United States because the United States

wouldn't allow it to and they couldn't

buy anywhere else because the rest of

the world was afraid of having sanctions

from the U.S and the solution to this

was Cuban Americans in the U.S Gathering

money to buy it uh in the United States

and trying to bring it to Cuba they

needed a license to save these eight

Cuban uh children lives it's something

crazy and let me tell you something this

is something that is very close to me

because I know some of these children

who didn't make it

so we are talking about Cuban lives here

children's lives and this needs to stop

Luis thank you very much indeed let's go

back to Cuba Carlos the Cuban diplomats

and former Ambassador is listening in uh

Carlos I know you've probably gotten

many things to say uh about what you've

been hearing yes yes go go ahead I'll

just give you a cart launch away you go

go ahead

no let me let me answer part of what

some of the people have said for example

uh Batista killed well there are

different different calculations of

people say 20 000 Cubans or more people

think six thousand cubers but let me

tell you for example the uh part of the

people who attacked them on Calabar

barracks in 53 were taken prisoner and

murdered they were murdered simply my

father's friend a senator was murdered

and his body grown into a lagito so that

was Underpants

but this past time they were murdered

simply tortured simply

um and the Revolutionary what happened

because it had to happen it was

inevitable because Batista in 1952 took

power through a coup d'etat and stopped

the uh Democratic process so the

Democratic process in Cuba stopped back

in 1952 and a new democracy was created

by the Cuban government but let us let

us not discuss that the question of the

Embargo the human buys a lot of food

stuff from many sources for example the

wheat that is bought for baking bread is

not bought from the United States it's

bought from Ukraine from Russia from

whatever from Canada uh the legal

foodstuffs that Cuba can buy from the

United States has to pay be paid in

advance in cash through European Banks

and you are most assume the The Exchange

the the the exchange um

um

taxes that when you change what you

change Euros to dollar to pay dollars

you have to pay for them so but let's be

very Frank in 1960 an American Secretary

of State Deputy of the Secretary of

State said we must put sanctions in

place to bring about Hunger desperation

and they will throw the keyword

government that's the policy of the

United States towards Cuba to that much

we added the the millions of dollars

that are being given to uh people in

Miami where there is a contact industry

of creating situations in Cuba and

reproducing fake news and creating

situations so that there be that famous

Uprising that they have been waiting for

and never happened

um so let me say this the the policy the

policy that the United States has now on

Cuba is a cold war policy it's a cold

war that looks for

uh an apps to surrender of the given

government by a combination of coercive

measures to make life difficult for

humans and the creation of an atmosphere

in the social networks that make it

difficult now what this produces in Cuba

is a very negative political effect one

you give the government the perfect

Alibi to say well it's not beef but it's

not my policies that are wrong which I

disagree I think their policies are

wrong and they should change it but the

Embargo gives them the chance to blame

someone else and secondly by by this uh

policy of of putting pressure on the

Cuban government putting pressure on the

Cuban people it uh it it produces an

escalation of Potentials in Cuba which

makes Cuba believe that we are under

siege and that when you are under siege

you react very strongly now Obama in 19

in 2014 changed that basically because

that policy was a failure and that

policy is going to be a failure let's

face it the United States is not going

to make a result on a policy of

sanctions to Cuba the best way to go is

a normalization process in which Cuba is

not on the so much pressure not under so

much tension so that we can work out our

problems we can wear it our human rights

problem our problems that have to do

with the economy but not in a country

that is under siege we are a continuous

Siege we feel Under Siege and everything

that you have to do or you want to do

it's it's it's there is always the US uh

blockade or sanctions in the bill I

remember in 2015 Cuba and the United

States agreed to to cooperate on the on

the issue of Ebola in Africa the tuber

medical mission was supposed to be paid

through

dwho the World Health Organization well

you know what happened when the health

World Health Organization sent

to uh Sierra Leone the money to pay the

Cuban doctors who were risking their

life the money was stopped in New York

an interaction with Cuba that involves

dollars has to go through a Clearing

House in New York that takes about three

or four months to approve it so the

result was that Cuba had to send the the

doctors he then sent to Africa under

that agreement which was agreed with the

American side because the U.S topped

those dollars that that needed to to be

paid the Cuban doctors were risking

their lives to uh to finish the evil

epidemic Arabic this is the kind of

relationship we have we have with the

United States is is a cruel and perverse

policy that only produces pain and

doesn't achieve Carlos thank you that

that they want Carla sazukara thank you

very much indeed Eric's fun coming to

you in a minute Pascal rule yes I think

that uh today the symbolism of the war

the symbolism of the

nuclear crisis in 62 became in fact the

rule when the word has changed

and nothing changed with Cuba and that's

very impressive to to to have this this

feeling and this feeling now when we

have in Europe a conventional War when

we have this risk of uh

nuclear

deterrence when the real risk today is

in the China Sea is between the koreas

that's the point so that's very

impressive to see the help and down of

this relation that's not between

Democrats of Republican Helms Burton has

been taken through the Clinton

Administration

torricelli through Bush 41. I mean

that's source of identity and I'm very

worrying in fact today go ahead well I

think the irony is a historical irony

here is that the the logo was imposed on

Cuba because they had the goal to remove

a Batista who had been installed by the

United States so there's a there's a

cruel as your former intellectual said

the irony there but I think one should

concentrate on what's going to happen

next

um at this point the Baton

Administration isn't going to change his

thing to the Embargo for several reasons

some of which have outlined because of

the competition in rhetoric anyway from

the Cuban American Senators but it's

also I think in in one perhaps shouldn't

mention this it's also because the whole

image of Cuba has considerably changed

in the world

Cuba had an aura okay Castro had an aura

and a lot of French people as we know

sort of related to that aura and there

was also the figure of Che Guevara and

both of those figures have now as it

were passed into the into the background

for young people including for young

Hispanics in the United States and so

those young Hispanics in the United

States who had a sort of identity

relation to those two uh Heroes if you

will of of Latin America namely Castro

Fidel Castro and Che Guevara those

figures don't are not important anymore

and and they are turning away from Cuba

Cuba doesn't interest the Hispanics in

the United States as much as it used to

and this is why in a sense because Biden

is and the Democrats want and

legitimately so want to get hold of the

Hispanic vote because they've done more

for the Hispanic certain needed the

Republicans

and this is why Biden is not going to do

anything about this now so unfortunately

we feel that this embargo which is the

oldest one in the world and which has we

have the proof that it didn't produce

the results that we wanted and we also

have the proof that when Obama I repeat

myself but I think it's important to

underline it when Obama tried to lighten

it anyway if not taking taken out take

it out altogether there was there was

immediate response in Cuba itself and it

was good for the Cuban people as soon as

Trump

made it you know very tough again

immediately the Cuban government going

back to its old ways I must say of you

know oppressing and repressing

immediately went into that kind of a

gear and and Cuba is the worst is the

worst for it today and thank you very

much indeed let's talk a little bit

briefly before we come back to our

guests about to help that the U.S has

given to Cuba uh humanitarian Aid

hurricane Ian striking Cuba in September

causing extensive damage to the island

uh this is all on record so there's

nothing new coming out here the US

announced then two billion dollars in

Aid to help the Cuban people

um that's going to be generous by

anybody's estimation let's see here now

from Cuba's prime minister uh speaking

sometime later about the cost of the

Embargo 2 Cuba

yesterday the U.S government announced

their offer of 2 million dollars through

the International Federation of Red

Cross and red crescent societies for

which we have also expressed our

gratitude

I cannot yet give figures on the losses

caused by Hurricane Ian still I did give

data on the damages caused by the

Embargo on Cuba over the last 17 months

because the Embargo is a permanent

pandemic it is a constant hurricane

correction before we go any further it

was two million not two billion the

minute I said billion everyone said no

it was Millions so there you go

nonetheless it is a substantial amount

of money Eric's van from the Republicans

in France movement author of La banier

Italy Eric is in the U.S but he

represents the Republicans here in

France he'll be back here soon and when

you are Eric coming to the studio

because you're welcome anytime

um thank you you are how can I put it I

mean completely at odds with everybody

around the table I think about the

situation many people many people

wherever they're watching might be

thinking why does this continue isn't it

isn't it up to the US to play the more

large role the more generous role and

say okay let's let's let's sign this off

to the past and let's open things up

more so everybody can benefit

well I I want to yeah I agree with some

of what Ann Kratz said and I think that

nobody ever mentions the name of Cuba's

president and I don't think most people

in France or most people in the USA or

anyway know that his name is Miguel Diaz

Canal nobody knows that everybody is

always talking about the caspers but

beyond that

um you're talking about uh the

Ambassador mentioned a lot of people who

were killed by

um by Batista he doesn't mention the the

number of people who are killed by a Che

Guevara and the castras and um people

are let me to give the but to put this

in perspective think of pinoshi

everybody was against Pinochet over I

don't know 15 20 years Pinochet killed 3

000 people

um Fidel Castro killed 20 000.

um more people more Cubans escaped from

Cuba than people escaped from Sheila and

Sheila is part of the Latin America the

South American continent I reckon I hear

what you're saying sorry to sorry to cut

across you because you're interesting

and you're making good points but I hear

what you're saying but bring it up to

date to today why continue the Embargo

I would say then like she said like Anne

credit said most people I don't know a

lot of Latin Americans do not want it

but uh they're they're also wary of all

the of all the people both in Europe and

in the USA who want to say oh let

bygones be bygones when they have when

the Castro Brothers have killed so many

people and stolen so much and forced

people to emigrate you know often

without their their their their goods

the treaty signed in 96 I'm going back

to my research here Helms Burton treaty

it said that once the castros are gone

the the Embargo will go uh clearly

that's not been respected by the United

States we had a guest here in the studio

Louise talking about getting

organs to children who needed to be

saved and that was slowed down by the

Embargo it doesn't make any sense does

it anymore surely

I I think I think that you have you get

the you get these small stories that are

the tragic they're tragedy Eric it's

someone's life Eric it's someone's life

someone's life people they were killed

by by the Castro Brothers

but that's the past and at some point

the past has to be put to put away

doesn't it from the past like in South

Africa

Communists never do that right now there

are people there are people who who talk

about we need communism you know in

American high schools and in European

high schools we need uh communism in our

countries because they're never taught

about the number of people that that

were killed for example people um

one last thing most people lost things

foreign

I'm sorry what no Eric finish your

sentence then it's Carlos next okay I

said a year by the Taurus regime and

that came to 1500 people who died of

starvation every day in the Communist

gulags of Lenin and Stalin so people are

not being taught their their history no

system is ideal Eric I think we all

agree with that one however I think some

of the things you're saying about

keeping up this keeping up this sambargo

in spite of uh the fact that say you

know the children that Luis is talking

about you know would be risk dying I

think I find that quite chilling Carlos

you're on in Cuba

Eric Eric's is is making propaganda let

me give you an example the the Invaders

of the Bay of Pigs 1200 of them what is

1200 of them were made prisoner were

they killed no they were returned to the

United States in less than a year so

this bloody uh dictatorship let's go the

people who attacked them with weapons

who were sent by the CIA and that's a

fact so please mention plaques no

propaganda history is made about facts

not propaganda that's the only thing I

want to say very insane

the Cuban Revolution was inevitable the

conditions in Cuba made it inevitable A

revolution is not a dinner party it's

Revolution Sorry by their very nature

violent I think one of the less violent

Revolutions in the the history of the

world was the Cuban Revolution uh

historian years

in Cuba

historian historian Duke Thomas who has

written this book about cubicle a

history of Freedom he he has calculated

that in the first couple of years only

600 or 700 people were executed were

criminals by the way people who had told

you and murdered Cubans so there is no

history in Cuba like the one who created

I lived in Argentina for four years

during the military dictatorship that

was really terrible more than 17 000

people were killed by the Argentinian

military dictatorship no there's no fact

no no no no concrete fact that

demonstrates that something like that

has ever happened in Cuba after 1959.

Carlos thank you Louis Carrera here in

the studio yeah I was I was uh listening

to Eric as well and I I wanted to remind

that the CIA

um has uh executed plans in Cuba that

has actually killed people if we

remember in in the 1980s uh 1987 I think

there was a plane who was uh attacked

like in the year there was there was a

bump inside the plane who killed all of

them 1976

1976. thank you doctor and uh this is

like we're talking about the US

Government funding this kind of Terror

attacks not to mention the one happening

in Cuban soil because they also send

people with large guns and shooting out

to the hotels and I wanted to I wanted

to bring as well an element that I think

is is very important Mark is because if

you think about the Embargo very

like with it with a cold mine right this

is obviously not convenient for Cuba

like human people are suffering it's not

convenient for the Cuban government

because we're seeing nowadays that Cuban

are going to this recent protesting

because the situation is so hard

um Pascal was mentioned in the situation

with the with the with the electricity

Cuba cannot buy parts for its uh

thermoelectric power plants in France or

in Germany now in the United States if

they're bringing fuel um from abroad the

ships are stopped and they cannot uh go

to Cuba so

um it is not convenient for Cuba right

it is not convenient for the us either

because they're spending so much

taxpayers money on something that is not

working it's not working so this and

then keeping keeping this embargo going

Louise it's it's an ideological thing

isn't it John Bolton calling uh well

influencing Donald Trump back in one was

elected in 2016 of course Bolton calling

Cuba part of a Troika of tyranny Pascal

uh with Nicaragua and Venezuela which

resulted in Trump really imposing all

the sanctions on Cuba all over again

it's an ideological thing as as you see

more countries going towards the left

across the continent of America is

Washington basically worried about what

is happening what the trends are and

therefore wants to keep the status quo

for whatever reason it makes no sense to

anybody else who's looking at it around

the table a path America

yes that's uh possible but uh for your

right

Latin America is changing and that's

very important for the USA

uh the biggest economy in Latin America

are now under left power Brazil since 24

hours Mexico

Colombia Chile Argentina I mean the top

five in Latin America now is under left

Powers so and we could see the effect in

the last assembly of the American states

organization where it is a strong debate

and where we can see that in Latin

America Cuba is not alone

Cuba is a country introduced in the

international scene

very strong in Latin America so take

care on that in some countries as Brazil

the first partner economic of the first

Latin America economy Brazil is China

they are not the USA so take care also

with the suit with this us the USA to to

to stay under this historical I can

understand but historical symbolism the

reality today has changed can we imagine

in 2022 that with Germany France

wouldn't speaking speak with Germany

because 44 in 44 no one in France no one

in Germany wanted to speak together

today we are more than partner we are

very strong in Europe Pascal thank you

very much indeed everyone wants to speak

but sadly time is up I'll just leave you

one thought A very wise Muslim one once

told me in change there is blessing so

maybe in some kind of change there will

be blessings for all of us thanks to all

the parable taking part Eric's fan from

Republicans in France joining us from

the US Carlos al-zugarai in Cuba thank

you sir Robert Louis Carrera here in the

studio thank you Luis thanks to Pascal

Giro from The schwazzo Institute and

ankratz thank you you for joining us too

very much indeed thank you for watching

wherever you are stay with us more to

come here on France 24.

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